This discussion is about a group called the Fellowship of Friends. Click on the Comments button to join in.
From Wikipedia:
Pro-Fellowship of Friends propaganda: The Fellowship of Friends is a spiritual school based on the Fourth Way tradition, founded in 1970 by Robert Earl Burton. It is a different form of a Fourth Way school than the one presented by George Gurdjieff, Peter Ouspensky and Rodney Collin, and it currently incorporates other sources into its teaching. The organization’s stated task is to enable its members to awaken and develop a soul that can survive death and achieve immortality. This task includes preserving the highest forms of beauty, knowledge, and culture; and using this task as a vehicle for consciousness. As of 2007, the organization has approximately 2,000 members, about a third of which live around the organization’s property in Northern California. The rest of its members live in North and South America, Europe and Asia. The Fellowship of Friends is recognized by the state and federal governments as a non-profit religious organization.
Anti-Fellowship of Friends propaganda: In 1967 Robert Burton attended a meeting led by Alex Horn. Mr. Horn was a student of the Fourth Way and conducted a group based on the Gurdjieff-Ouspensky ideas. Burton devoted himself to studying the Fourth Way and to participating in Mr. Horn’s group. After eighteen months he parted from his teacher. In 1970, Robert Earl Burton founded the Fellowship of Friends. In 1971, the organization acquired 1,300 acres of land in Oregon House, California, in order to provide its members with a retreat where they could realize their principles of self-development.
Robert Burton, stating that he was receiving guidance from higher beings, is said to have predicted a world-wide depression in 1984, an earthquake which would destroy California in 1998, and a nuclear war in 2006.
Some former members have criticized Burton for alleged sexual abuse, excessive control, and brainwashing, and several of them have left the organization because of these concerns. A former member sued Robert Burton and the organization in 1996 for the same reasons. This case and another suit claiming sexual abuse were settled out of court. The Fellowship of Friends’ president stated in a newspaper article that one suit was dismissed and two others were settled by the organization’s insurance companies to save the costs of litigation.
It should be added that membership fees consist of 10% of income, two extra payments each year and payments for dinners, talks and presentations. The Fellowship of Friends is not a cheap business.
This discussion is in its 11th incarnation, previous incarnations can be found here (hosted by Animam Recro):
For part 10 click here.
For part 9 click here.
For part 8 click here.
For part 7 click here.
For part 6 click here.
For part 5 click here.
For part 4 click here.
For part 3 click here.
For part 2 click here.
For the article that I wrote so very long ago, and for the first and potentially most enlightening part of the discussion click here.
For sites in Russian and Italian, click http://fofway.narod.ru/ and http://laliberastrada.blogspot.com/ respectively.
Enjoy the discussion, be civil and polite, and above all have fun!
It does not matter what path you take, but it does matter if the path you are taking is something that you are believing is appropriate. Nothing is more damaging to you than to do something that you believe is wrong.
I found this in my email today from an Abraham Workshop.
To Hava Nagillah (#10-527)
You brought up the subject of prophecy. And I understand from your tone about the prophet Jonah that your are justifying Burton’s spectacular (no lesser word will do) failures at prophecy.
Because his prophecies are central to the FOF story (whether he makes similar claims as of today or not), central to the way he used them to inculcate both fear and infatuation in his followers, Burton’s claims to be able to foretell the future led me to study prophecy in general and Burton’s being in this area in particular.
First, let’s get this clear. Burton’s claims were literal, not metaphorical. The Wiki entries as of 2007 are lies in that they are trying to cast doubt on this, trying to muddy the waters and alter people’s clear memories. Not only that, Burton claimed that they were literal, in my hearing, and also claimed, after the failure of the depression of 1984 had failed to materialize, that he had never been wrong, again in my hearing (at a dinner in 1991). When people make affirmations of Burton’s consciousness, they are lying, because they cannot know. When people defend Burton by re-interpreting Burton’s prophecies, they are also lying, because they are trying to bring darkness to areas that were previously well–lit.
The very basic misunderstanding that people make is this: that prophecy means to foretell the future. Sorry, Howard Carter, the future cannot be foretold, by Burton, higher forces, or even the Absolute. So, Hava Nagillah, study the prophets, and see actually what they are doing. What they are doing is telling people what is happening in the present. They are telling the truth about the present. For example, Jonah is telling the people of Nineveh the truth about their present situation. The extrapolation (quite different from prophecy) is this; if you do not change your ways, the future will be like the present. Do you see the difference, Nava Nagillah? (I’m presenting this intellectually because you are intellectually centered). If you live today in a certain state, and you do nothing to change your attitude, then tomorrow will be a repeat of today. That is not prophesying the future, it is extrapolating the present. Prophets describe both momentum and inertia. It is interesting that you use the example of Jonah and Niniveh, because right in those verses is the answer. The people of Niniveh did change their attitudes, so the truth about them changed, and so the previously inevitable consequences changed.
If you go through the catalog of biblical prophets, you will start to see what I’m talking about. The fact that Burton misunderstands this, as you do, is very interesting to me, as is his extreme attachment to his supposed gifts in this area. It tells me something about his level of consciousness, not directly of course, but indirectly; it is one of the results of his level of being, one of his “fruits”.
And I repeat, the prophecies are as central to the totality (time-body) of his ‘teaching’ as self-remembering. He spent (invested) at least as much of his time when I was around him over the years talking about signs and prophecies as on being present. No amount of Wiki revisionism changes the fact that he considered his prophecies literal windows into the future!
To Light (#10-530)
Thank you for telling us that you are a sufi (whatever that is), you are obviously proud of your “membership”. Whether a true sufi would recognize you as another is not for me to judge. Certainly your ‘act of profundity’ is a veritable island of being in a shallow sea—but which sea?
Please, for those of us who are very slow, kindly explain your “one-way tunnel, truck coming headed this way” analogy. It’s too deep for me, so I need the message to be more literal. Precisely what are you warning us about?
With love to you all,
Ames
“It should be added that membership fees consist of 10% of income, two extra payments each year and payments for dinners, talks and presentations. The Fellowship of Friends is not a cheap business.”
Yes, in addition to the 10% fee, “special donations” of $255 are required each month, as well as Spring and Fall donations of $775 each, and a December donation of $100. Attending dinners, talks, and presentations usually costs a few hundred dollars each month.
Thanks WakeupLilSuzy for the Abraham quote. As usual they are Ace.
Here is a post I sent to yahoo answers today. The question had to do with the rarity of finding true love, but it actually is appropriate to this blog’s basic subject matter.
PEPTIDES AND LOVE=
What you say in this question is correct. Two main factors are involved. The first is that we create our reality, our life, with our thoughts. Until now we have called this the law of attraction. Earth-shaking scientific advances in neurology and quantum mechanics are in the process of experimentation as a result of theories caused by the disemnimation of the info re. the law of attraction. There is still confusion and delay in letting people know about these because it implies a large change in our worldview. Some of this is looked at and discussed in the film “What the Bleep Do We Know?” and I recommend the extended version.
In order to love all that is required is intent. The energy involved is always present. It flows in and out unless resistance neutralizes it, so to speak. In the case of person to person application, evolution has built into the frontal cortex a decision maker apparatus. This gives humans what we call free will. So you can transmit a signal which identifies your personal likes and wants, as if it were rock&roll, but the receiver blocks it or does not capture it unless he is tuned in to the exact station (ideally). This is over-simplification but the general idea is correct.
A second factor is rather new stuff, in a way. That is that we are made to be addicts, physically. When thoughts of want are repeated, any and all, imaginary or not, the matching receptors are created in the brain to accomodate the peptides produced. Once the receptors are in place, they start to let the body know that they need to be fed. ie. if it is the chocolate-coded receptor that is asking, you start to look for chocolate. You may go to the fridge looking for you-don’t-know-exactly-what, but you know that if you see it you know that the alarm will ring. Sometimes people will grab the donut along the way, just in case, but they will not be satisfied. No matter, the tendency for extra calories will also begin to create new receptors leading to obesity. The exact same applies to emotions or sexual pleasures, and again I am talking about specific emotions, positive or negative doesn’t matter, real or imaginary, and the same of course with the sexual or any other pleasures. A person may never have actually experienced one of those except in imagination, but he/she will after a certain number of repititions become addicted to it. Sound familiar?
This starts to get more complicated but is still easy to understand. What happens is that these receptors can accept certain substitute peptides. Maybe the hershey’s is not exactly like the cadbury’s, but since the code is close enough, it is accepted at least temporarily. Makes sense. The same applies for the lover. Here you are right again and I have seen hundreds of such related questions on this site.
My experiences also fit this description. Getting back now to free will, it is that each individual has very particular thoughts, memories, imaginary fantacies, and so on in which case the signal they send out to the universe is personal. When one individual, without all this information decides on his or her own that so and so is the only one, there is a problem. What if they do not match? The dreamer still gets adddicted and the result is pain and if it persists disease. There is no end to the possibilities. One lifetime heroin addict told me once, “When I find something better, I’ll switch.” He had lost everything including his family. Even his son had been robbed and killed while out looking for him on Father’s Day on Shooter’s Alley. The good news is that we are now able to understand what is going on in the world. The reason we are getting the answers is because so many are asking the questions. Thank you All. Ron or Renald
“If you have not by nature a critical mind your staying here is useless.” G. I. Gurdjieff
“If you have not by nature a critical mind your staying in the Fellowship of Friends cult is mandatory.”
The King of Clubs is the enemy of delusion. The Fellowship of Friends is what happens when the work ideas are mixed into a crowd of people that do not understand the need to develop all the lower centers. The intellectual story of the instinctive center is an entirely necessary part of the intellectual story as a whole because it can always hear a lie. The king of clubs is the machine’s lie detector, even when the intellectual center and the emotional center are in full agreement with the statements of another it is the king of clubs that ignores all the ideas and words and looks at the body language and the radiated energy of the speaker. The king of clubs is what hears the ulterior motive behind the disingenuous outward appearance of a generous and platonic attention from someone who is in fact simply seeking to sexually gratify an obsessive appetite. The king of clubs is what directly witnesses the apparent and hidden appetites of people. When a false prophet wants your money, wants to satisfy his sexual lusts and wants to control you it is the king of clubs that recognizes the real motive in spite of the elaborate spiritual con game. When a six foot four, 200 pound son of a butcher from Arkansas tells you that the all knowing gods want you to submit to him sexually it is the king of clubs that says no. This is one reason Burton hates the king of clubs, not to mention that the king of clubs is a threat to the security of his income from people with a wrong magnetic center. People easily manipulated with extreme ideas and the distortion of useful ideas have what in the Work is known as a wrong magnetic center, they lack the common sense that comes from developing all the centers. They lack the critical mind that requires the presence of the king of clubs. The main reason Burton hates the king of clubs is because his is broken. This is a quotation from the “teacher” in the first days of the Fellowship of Friends (once posted on the internet and substantiated as circulated notes from a Burton meeting):
Burton: This group will produce three angels, and they will be burned on the cross and will survive.
Q. The others are the chaff?
Burton: They move to another role, if we take Jesus’ words, “Every hair is counted.” Remember, those three I spoke of will be literally and worse burned on the cross.
This kind of statement is predictably the kinds of perceptions that come from the mentally ill, that is people with broken centers. The “angle” comes from a man with a broken, “paranoid” king of clubs and such broken machines and their delusions of grandeur are commonly registered in medical journals. Many of these psychologically crippled people even share the same delusions, so that professionals hear the same beliefs from various individuals. Broken brains are predictable. Burton hates the king of clubs because his broken king of clubs keeps telling him that bad things are going to happen, he even calls these distorted ‘I’s from the “adversary” prophesies. Burton was distorted and ruined right from the beginning of his career as a pawn of B influences. This is where your “teacher” received instructions on how to manipulate and misuse people for his own gain:
http://www.davearcher.com/alex.html
complete_attention@yahoo.com
Anyone interested in communicating a balanced description of the Fellowship of Friends for people looking into esoteric schools, please check out the FOF Wikipedia site.
I happened upon the FOF Wikipedia site a couple of weeks ago and have been following the FOF Wikipedia disputes. (If anyone is interested, select the Discussion Tab at the top of the FOF Wikipedia page and then start at the bottom of the page, the last/most recent, discussion entry working your way up the page. )
The FOF Wikipedia site has been reduced in size which is a good thing. Initially, it mirrored the FOF official site. Lately, it has been shredded and the one remaining sentence on school payments has been removed. There is no mention of having to leave the school if you cannot make the payments or cannot follow new school rules. Also, there is no mention of shunning students who have left the school.
I haven’t checked the Wikipedia sites for the Mormons or the Amish to see if they reference how former members are treated but I believe that the Fellowship of Friends Wikipedia site should include this information. The Fellowship has nothing to hide regarding its treatment of former members. It is what it is and inclusion in the FOF Wikipedia site would be honest.
10/522 arthur
Margaret was right. I did come back from where I started and became a liar. A big one. Robert Burton was also right, in my case, “those who leave the school go back to a lower state than where they started”
Dear arthur
Hope we caught you on a down day. Don’t buy into it. Not a word. Not a word.
There is no going back, no descent into hell. Only forward or “now ward” for many.
You have revealed your compassion.
Please do not see that as something “lower” even if what you see is not an alchemical match to FOF protocol.
We have been striated and gyrated into thinking there is only one way of being, thinking, doing. In fact we have been, in reverence to, or perhaps, left of current modes, mummified. Stupefied.
Wish you could be here. Electrified our little sleepy hollow, Oregon House. Not by the believers. But by the ejected, the dejected and all those backing out slowly. Asking the question. What now?
Answering, so much so much.
Joy to all
Cake
To Hava Nagillah. (528)
Maybe we have reached the point in which we need to discuss our own machine as well as others so that we can begin to understand where first line is keeping us from developing second and third line.
A man that in his first line uses the sex center only for physical sattisfaction, develops in himself a tendency to withdraw his emotional and intellectual center from the intercourse. This is then expressed in Robert’s lack of emotional commitment in his second line in his inability to establish a stable relationship with a man and in the relationships conditioned by his position of authority in which he is above the rest. His inability to treat others as equals is an aspect of the withdrawal of his emotional center in his second line, no matter how much he theorizes about the king of hearts. I still haven’t heard anyone say Robert is his friend no matter how much I’ve questioned it here. The people I have seen close to him for years have not been able to confirm that he has unconditional love for any one of them. The use and discard pattern is what prevails
Robert’s neglect of emotional commitment to another human being,(first line) reflects on his equally emotional neglect of students (second line) also when he cannot address them directly even in small dinners, and his equally substantial neglect of humanity as a whole (third line) who for him are nothing but the six billion dead people on the planet.
In Girard’s play we have a man that got used to connecting to women through a screen for forty years, watching porno, that is, who connects to women only as pleasure, sex objects, (first line), who then has tremendous difficulty in bringing forth his emotional and intellectual centres into his marriages (second line) and like Robert, Girard has tremendous difficulty in having simple, open, spontaneous interactions with people in general when he is not performing (second line). Girard’s third line is equally adverse to the rest of humanity as people he has no interest in, who are simply the many ‘I’s. Jokingly but very negative in traffic, he’ll refer to them as “the idiots on my road.”
They both justify all this stiffness, fear, inner considering towards other students and people, by saying that they are “acting intentionally,” That they do not have “time” (which only really matters to the instinctive center) for interactions without an agenda although they would rather call it, without an aim. They have to have an aim because they have forsaken the aim of simply being one with the other. The other has become an object separate from them that gives them pleasure or money, a “machine without a personal life” a human being that can be treated as an object.
Both of them have the aim to satisfy their unemotional sexual life and unconditionally support the Fellowship of Friends at the cost of people that they cannot humanly interact with unless they are “performing” to them.
“Performing” is something that is learnt. Like in any actor the emotional center needs to be withdrawn to not allow the individual to reveal himself more than the role that he is trying to portray. Why do you think Robert and Girard can only “perform” conscious roles and show such dissonant behavior when they are not performing? Or have you not seen how Robert runs away from people so as not to be confronted individually and Girard cannot even look at people’s eyes when students greet him lovingly unless they are young women?
Our intimate relation with our selves, as much as our personal relations with others and our social behavior with the world at large, are all the expression of our consciousness. They are first, second and third line “made flesh,” so to speak. The harmony between them is where our level of being is. Where there is no harmony, there still needs to be work on consciousness.
The tremendous error of Robert Burton’s teaching is precisely in the fact that he became fixed in the idea of self remembering as his only effort and that of his students and was unable to move ahead with it to second and third line, both in himself and in his school.
He was unable to refrain his own lust, establish an intimate relation with another human being or hold a healthy view of humanity in the third line. He idealized the second line with a “friendship” that never actualized itself, for himself or the school, which only developed relations of authority in the official channels of participation and a third line that developed a general negative attitude towards life people and exstudents, but became “idealized” into an exploration of former conscious schools adapted to his fixed idea of presence, orchestrated practically mainly by Asaf’s research with other students because Robert no longer has the intellectual or conscious inspiration needed to develop a practical system. He has always kept the grip on other teachings because he was unable to fly himself. He is having to look backwards at schools because he does not know how to move forward.
He is having to steal bits and pieces from other teachings without giving them enough credit so that he doesn’t loose students to them. This was probably also the case when he stopped teaching and allowed for Girard and other students to take the reigns of the teaching. After realizing that the school continued to move with the indoctrination Girard held it with, he had little effort to make to continue the game.
Neither Robert nor Girard have been able to move away from their instinctive center in themselves or in the Fellowship of Friends. As we analyse Girard’s indoctrination we will consistently find that he supports Robert’s teaching by separating consciousness from functions and hence, not having to respond for his own or Roberts first line or sexual addictions and reaffirming an idealized state oblivious of practical life, which is condemmed as the instinctive center, the machine, or influence A.
Interestingly, influence A became everything personal the students had to give up, but there was never a question of why Robert did not give up his own influence A or personal life and on the contrary, fully adapted it to the work and the school, making every student support it totally. We are two thousand people supporting one man’s greed.
What I am posing here and have been from the beginning, is that Robert’s and Girard’s personal damages, habits or behavior are damaging student’s integrity, consciousness, “being” in as much as what is refrained from students is precisely the expression of their capacity to involve their thinking and emotional center in their work on developing consciousness. Their dignity, their being.
The emotional and intellectual center have been replaced by an indoctrination on what students should read, think and feel and the instinctive center has been condemmed to support the fellowship without participating in what is done with the money they invest. All this separations of the centers from the I do not strengthen but weaken consciousness. It is not work on non identification what is being practiced, it is dismemberment. Work on non identification is the presence of consciousness in the functions not the absence of it.
A student is nothing but a nobody who can be asked to leave, any time. No one has a say on anything intellectual, emotional or instinctive about how things are handled in the Fellowship of Friends except Robert or actually a very developed inner circle that is looking more and more like the last chinese emperors court who were the ones who handled everything to their advantage at the people’s cost. Like the emperor, Robert should be sent to work in the gardens with due consideration for his age.
Consciousness is not just a state. It is a PRACTICAL expression of the highest amongst human beings and the Fellowship has become a living stage for the most base expressions. How can it not be harmful to student’s integrity?
KathrynF Says:
#507/10
“Re: Feathered Serpent, The Dragon, Divine Chi, Inner Lightening, Kundalini Energy, Cosmic Consciousness, Higher States…
“For all his faults, Robert could dominate his students into sublime awareness, while herding us away from state-trampling trances, arguably by replacing them with higher ones. From my perspective, every note in the crystalline continuum of the Now surrounding him resonated with celestial harmony. In his presence I often felt like a beggar, a scavenger, feeding on the crumbs dropped from the feast of his being by which he fed his gods, savoring the small ambrosial energy morsels molted by him: Robert, the feathered serpent.”
The “up” side of bi-polar disorder is probably very exciting.
“Is depression “frozen rage”? Freezing in our tracks — refusing to change — arrests those nagging fluctuations, but it’s just another trap.
“Happy today – you are on the crest between two sorrows. Incessantly tossed by waves from all directions, remember that “The Now” is continuously-temporary. Caught in a trough of sadness, remember: you are merely between peaks of bliss…”
The “down” side is probably not as inspiring.
Folks
From previous post (4/65) –
“Contributors try variously to classify the content of the blog now inside ‘work’ language, trying to photograph negativity, now citing failure of others to ‘move on’, now attempting to stamp out the sometimes messy and ugly stories, now firing feeble spiteful responses with no appreciation for context. It is what it is and is not under fellowship laws, and hardly under any laws of politeness or order. Ask yourself, what brought this blog into being? Why has it gained such momentum? Of course within it’s pages is that which is reactive, critical, and negative… but look deeper at the forces involved.”
Many contributors have since alluded to the deeper forces that keep this blog growing, and ultimately one sees that the nature of fellowship itself is at the root. Unconvinced by traditional rhetoric, many of us have extended the discussion – and are asking questions – in forums outside the group.
As defenders of the FOF faith, we will attempt to see the blog variously as crime, negativity, a waste of precious time, and so forth. These descriptors are from a belief system that resolves contradictions by using formulations that originate from within the group itself. What the blog has introduced is the possibility for arguments originating from outside, providing a much widened set of parameters that subject the group to a more far reaching set of checks and balances. As a very long-time member I would say don’t believe everything you read here. Believe about 80% of it. That’s plenty to get the idea.
We’ve been trained for years “look here, don’t look there”, and from inside the box, this idea is reasonable. Unfortunately the leader – and by extension the group – has found every possible way in which to take a simple work idea that might have a useful context within the work of an individual, and re-apply it to external phenomena and behavior of the group, tightly sealing the box against all interrogation. As evidenced within this blog, the FOF methods for keeping the box sealed go well beyond group belief, but those beliefs – once entrenched in the individual psychology – are far and away the most reliable way of maintaining support.
The concept that we are “luckier than everyone” is a signature that has been thoroughly documented by modern psychology for over a hundred years. Not surprisingly many of us have managed to ignore or selectively interpret that signature, for all our years as members.
For those interested, The Canons of the Fellowship of Friends, January 1, 1986, are now available online:
http://www.archive.org/details/TheEsotericHistoryArchive_465
In response to the King of Clubs 10 # 531. I remember it clearly. “Homosexuality is the apex of vanity” I want to give credit to where it is due but I cannot remember the source other than it came from within the Fellowship of Friends.
Thank you Whalerider, Veronicapoe and the King of Clubs for your posts.
To Hava Nagillah, Traveller, Beyond and whoever else is bothered by my expressing my suffering on this blog and stating that the whole community is responsible not only for my suffering but each other’s suffering. It does not bother me that you feel so satisfied, why does it bother you that I don’t?
I have no shame in moaning a lot about the fact that I was Girard’s sexual object as much as any of Robert’s boys is. The fact that I put myself, set myself up for that position is my responsibility and I will deal with it in due time. I will certainly not blame myself for having wanted to live a decent marriage in a conscious school. At the same time, it is not that Girard and I did not love each other or at least did not try to. But the intention is as far from reality as Robert is from consciousness. I do not blame anyone for being sleep, I question and expose them for saying that they are awake.
I am equally not ashamed by saying that the Fellowship of Friends is a foul set up to exploit fools, and that I am horrified at the length of time that they managed to fool me.
It is not that I have not learned much and do not hold precious my understandings now, of what consciousness is NOT, but I was offered a conscious school with a conscious teacher and it is not, so I was lied to and deceived. The subtlety of the excuses do not matter and are not enough to simply accept that this lie continue to exist when I have seen the deepness of the harm that it has done to Girard , Robert and the rest of us. Many of you might continue to say, let it be, but I will say that you are snoring in deep sleep and challenge you everywhere I can. Maybe people matter to me just a little more than they matter to you.
While I am willing to feel compassion for the collective sleep of our past, I have none for the continued sleep into the future. We know too much now to keep supporting this school. It needs to be examined thoroughly and that is what I intend to continue doing. I do not know how to get any money back as much as I think I deserve it, nor do I wish to put anyone in jail, or ruin any one’s possibilities, but if this deep questioning frees a few from their own sleep, so that they can recover the tremendous loss of integrity that we have all suffered, Girard as much as Robert, I will feel much joy.
If nothing happens but a few potential students find these writings and don’t join, I will be equally pleased.
I have nothing but words to question the school with. I will use no other force. That is a lawful force that I have a right to use, just as the fellowship used it against me to indoctrinate me.
If I have moaned and cried much in front of you, that too does not shame me. You are the community that I have been paying to belong to for seventeen years. You might want only my money and my beauty, my transformed suffering, my love but you did not give only that to me, you also gave me this horror that I am returning. If I am no better after all these years, you have as much to account for as I do. The mentality behind those expectations is one that hasn’t yet understood that we are all part of one and the same play, that the world outside affects one as much as the world coming from within. The individualism of the American mentality that is ashamed of seeing people suffering is part of its greatest limitation. That is why anyone can abuse others for so long without being opposed. Since it thinks each one has to do everything for himself, it cannot conceive community.
Some say it takes two years to heal from the experience of being in a cult. Some are still trying to heal after twenty two years. I am slowly healing and will stop moaning as soon as I can.
To Hava Nagillah,
I have much exposed myself publicly and have no fear of continuing to do so. I think hiding our sexuality and not talking about it is one of the reasons why Robert went unexamined for so many years. I do not think you have any interest in my sexuality but if you were willing to work on incorporating it into serious work on one self, I would be happy to participate in that discussion. Only as a discussion. Here, I understand, The Fellowship of Friends is the issue. If what you’re looking for are my faults since you have certainly not addressed any of my qualities, I can guarantee that I have plenty. I am not a conscious being but I am also not posing as one and charging people to support me.
Students speak of lifting the veil of imagination to reach presence. Others say that presence is perpetually available and cannot be lost, but can be veiled by identification with the ego. What is the difference? Only the FOF sense of relentless efforting and a very personal identity implied in its terminology and goals.
It seems that it is Robert Burton’s need to see himself as a messiah, as a very definitely separate individual who will retain that individuality through all eternity that spoils all the interpretations of the Sufis, Gnostics, Buddha, Shankara, Milarepa etc. The total dissolution of individual identity that is implied again and again in nearly all of the contemplative traditions within the world’s religions cannot be made to co-exist entirely with such an orientation of individuality, no matter how much Robert homogenates, bleaches and edits their writings into effortlessly digestible sound bites. And so now roughly 1700 mostly sincere students struggle daily to perform the truly impossible: to simultaneously abandon “all I’s”, all concepts, yet retain an imaginary concept of individuality: to invest their identity stepwise in 6 terse commands from a purely conceptual separate steward to a purely conceptual lower self, then…..? A leap into the “four wordless breaths” which promise the possibility of a timeless, wordless existence, but which, they are told, is a personal reward from discrete, discarnate immortal individuals to their unique, individual existence and helps make that individuality immortal. Sort of like chaining 6 cannonballs to your legs and then jumping into the ocean to experience weightlessness.
It does not seem that all that much has changed in the experience of the Fellowship of Friends over the years. Robert Burton has always had parts of his psychology that genuinely wish to honour evolution, his own and that of his students. He has also had, from the inception, very major problems with accepting himself and his past that have resulted in deception, obsession and megalomania.
The patchwork system of ideas, primarily taken from Ouspensky and Collin served well in studying human psychology. The tricks of the guru trade taken from Alex Horn helped build social and power structures. The conflicts created by Burton’s deceptions served to disrupt more subtle patterns of identification, such as identification with justice and logic. Burton’s vision of himself as a benign and loving person softened the edges of his rampant greed, in public at least, and helped create an atmosphere of external beauty. The “system” as Burton presented it was largely accidental in its origin, confused and creative in its application. Within the mosaic of the organization, very different goals and possibilities discordantly co-existed, both among the various students and within the psychology of their teacher. What made the Fellowship a place of spiritual growth was never its “teacher”, nor its power structures, nor any “higher influences”, nor even the core philosophies and techniques. When it worked, it worked by mutual consent and students found fulfilment in consensual validation and in the synergy of their explorations. A large group of people agreed to experiment together toward an ill-defined aim that seemed better than what mainstream life experiences seemed to offer. The external form allowed that mutual experiment to blossom. As long as students were sincere and open, personal growth and discovery were possible. Essentially the Fellowship was only a place where people occasionally gave each other permission to exist for reasons of spiritual growth. The sincerity of its students was always its greatest strength. The fact that its head, as passionate in his darkness as in his light, created an atmosphere of such relentless deception and predation as to eventually force all sincere students who looked it full in the face to leave, was always its greatest weakness.
Understanding this need not be depressing or frightening, but empowering. If it was your sincere wish to grow and experience truth that created the Fellowship, then that cannot be taken from you. You cannot be “released” from that by others, you will not be punished on any plane of reality other than within your own concepts, you cannot “lose the School”. If you still have that wish, you take it with you wherever and however you experience your life. If you no longer have that wish, well, $6000 to $20,000 a year in dues and side costs for a social club seems a bit steep, so please enjoy yourself.
#525 Feathered Boa
Ironically, It was your attention he grabbed.
#530 Light
You mention Unoanimo and WhaleRider in your post. Two beings you barely hold a candle to.
To Sheik:
Why do you only have links to the websites that are criticizing FOF and do not include links that have a different point of view.
Why not include http://www.gurdjieff-ouspensky-centers.org/ as well?
Or you want only one side of this coin to be seen?
To Traveler #517:
Nice post.
You wrote:”You see, to me this blog is like the second line we never had while in the school, because we could not share observations about our relationship to the school. Such conversations were always predictable: if you had any negative perceptions or doubts about Robert and his teaching, it was the Enemy that was tempting you from the true path.”
Maybe things had changed from the time you were in FOF, or maybe I had more luck, but if I had a concern about Robert or his teachings I was able to find a friend I could trust, or someone with a higher understanding of things, from books or through my own effort, and resolve the issue.
I do not say it always worked, or it will work for everyone. Just sharing my experience.
If you have the right attitude, which is, as you say “finding ways to move forward”, and if the aim is to understand ones own psychology in a particular time in ones life, to learn from past experience, and to make another step forward to the freedom from sleep (whatever one calls it), then, with this attitude, one can gain something. It is a very narrow path, and it is easy to fall into judgment and self pity, or anger and negativity. But if one is able to hold ones View, then it will be productive.
To Alice in W #519:
You wrote “Your post 514 is simply full of yes/no, either/or, black&white …are there only two?”
We live in a dualistic world. Otherwise there is only Beyond :-)
In Wonderland, you know, there was the White Queen and the Red Queen.
And there was Alice which represents the Beyond.
Dualism can be seen in two ways – as opposition (Devil against God) or coexistence, (Yin and Yang) and then you have a third element – DAO, which is the same a Beyond. So, I prefer the latter one.
So, it seems that I have a pretty similar way of seeing things.
We can talk about different colors and shades of gray, but in a place like this blog, I find it not practical. Just think of how are you going to verify that Pink that someone describes is of the same hue and saturation. And maybe it is not Pick at all? Maybe they have all the colors mixed up and are talking about Blue. This is the problem of calibration, and I did not find any tools for this on the entire blog. So, stick with black and white, your life will be a little easier. Because there is a chance that for someone your white will look like black, and their black looks like white to you.
From you again:” You sound like you are saying “they did this to me, they are a blog and we are its victims!!””
Does not sound like that to me. But surely could be true for some other Fellowship members, and non members as well. And I invite everybody to re-examine their attitude.
My motivation is to bring a higher view to this whole thing. And I find it easier to achieve if one is Alice, and not one of the characters from the Wonderland. Because Alice has a choice and other characters do not. Even the Queen of Hearts, which seems to be the most powerful.
Regarding conscience. I am not an expert on this matter.
I do believe that Ouspensky said, that conscience can only be experienced in the Third state. And I do not believe very much in “human” conscience. These are just two completely different things. I experience conscience as a deep understanding that all human beings are suffering because they are asleep. It is a Buddhist way to see this. But this is how I understand this.
To WhaleRider #529:
You wrote: “‘Victim psychology’ is keeping silent, remaining depressed, identified, and stuck blaming oneself.”
‘Victim psychology’ only means that you see the world through the lens of blame and/or guilt. Guilt is passive and blame is active. Both are representations of ‘Victim psychology’.
From you: “Releasing and expressing negative feelings without identification is taking responsibility for oneself (and community) instead of letting them fester inside and turning into an ongoing negative, irritable emotional mood.”
This is a tricky thing to do. I sense a lot of Righteousnesses in this. And Holy War type of approach. But, maybe you mean something else.
If you think you can hold “without identification” part, you may achieve something good. But, “Releasing and expressing” are two different things in my opinion.
From you: “Warning others in a public way about potential spiritual pitfalls (such as sexual predators masquerading as conscious beings) is not only paying forward some good karma, but also a way to transcend victimization.”
This one is hard to explain, but one part of this is based on the idea that people should not have a lot of sex if they want to (surely not by hurting other people), and morality prohibits this kind of misbehavior. And second one is based on the idea that a teacher or a conscious being has no rights for human desires (again, not through hurting other people). If one has experienced love and consciousness through having sex with the teacher, and even if the teacher has sex with many other people, then I see nothing wrong with this.
We put too much attention on the subject of sex. Because it is taboo in many puritan countries. Many people lack a decent sexual education, and are afraid of anything “abnormal”. I think living in the darkness of illiteracy is creating ones own “sexual predator”.
But you may thing differently and I respect that.
From you: “This statement applies to a meditation practice, not to the practice of chopping wood and carrying water!!!!”
Oh yes, it does apply to all experiences of our life. If you think of meditation as separate from the rest of your activity, you missed the whole meaning of spiritual development. You have to bring your practice to all circumstances of your life!
You wrote: “‘Beyond’ sounds fairly idealistic and narcissistic to me.”
Here is advice from you to you: “learn to respect another person’s process as different from you own”.
And in any case, we are not discussing our nicknames do we?
You again: “…learn to respect another person’s process as different from you own”.
I very well understand that other people have different experiences. It does not implies that I have to agree with them. And wise versa, if I do not agree with someone it does not mean that I disrespect them.
And for all your sarcastic compliments, I forgive you.
To Light #530:
I love this story. Thanks for sharing it.
To Across the River #533:
From you: “Perhaps you have never experienced the struggle to regain a sense of reality after the shock of betrayal…”
Well, I had many such experiences, and at the certain point, after another period of hell, I realized, nobody was betraying me.
Most of the situations were created by me, whether through identification, confusion, misunderstanding, ignorance or stupidity. And I am sincere. I truly believe that.
And if this is the place you are coming from, if you feel betrayed, then everything you write is painted in the same color.
From you:”The blog simply came along and opened a venue not available before, and because of the space the experience takes in one’s life, many found they still have angles about it to share. Does that make sense to you?”
Right, considering the amount of angles given here (about 4000), this “old well forgotten thing” takes a big place in lives of so many posters.
Does not seem like people came to peace with their old devils, and it does not seem like they did resolve their negativity and resentment.
So, “Get a life” did not happen.
Regarding your question about taking a side.
It seems that you think that taking a side will solve all the problems.
But it will only put you under a limitation of that side.
Besides, it lacks psychological depth.
Taking side, for me at least, means being on the side of either God or Devil.
I quit this kind of philosophy.
Being beyond means include both sides and see their limitations.
It is not Christian or any dualistic religions view. It is Taoist, Buddhist, Advaita and many other that I tend to prefer (Forth Way included).
So, to answer your question, if I understand it correctly, I will take a side only if I would become asleep and identified.
And since I am not man #11, as someone suggested, I do lean back and forth.
But we do not discuss that here, right?
Very few are interested in real experiences of Higher States of consciousness and the struggle of achieving them.
Most are preoccupied with illusory experiences of resentment and betrayal.
And this is just the way things are on planet Earth. And this blog is just a small representation of this life. Unfortunately, not the most conscious part.
I will finish here. And will not post anymore.
There are more important things to do.
Wishing all the best to everybody.
————————————
I am on neither side.
I am Beyond,
and I keep my place.
This recent note from “my buddy” Al Gore, demonstrates the problems facing the Fellowship of Friends membership are not unique:
“In the months following the release of An Inconvenient Truth, I began to focus on why our democracy has been so slow to deal with the climate crisis. The unwillingness to solve this problem is not only the result of a lack of political will, but it has also been caused by the emergence of a new political environment dangerously hostile to reason, knowledge, and facts. In the long-term, this poses a threat to the very basis of American democracy: the ability of a well-informed citizenry to use the rule of reason to hold government accountable.”
To Elena who wrote: ” I still haven’t heard anyone say Robert is his friend no matter how much I’ve questioned it here. ”
You have been too busy listening to your own words. I am Robert’s friend and I am your friend as well, if you could only have ears to hear.
Siddiq
Sheik– My computer does like this new format. When I use the Explorer browser I can only
Sheik, My computer does not like the new format. When I use the Explorer browser I can only read every other comment. When I use Netscape the “leave a comment” function does not work (I never tried to leave a comment on the old format). I realize part of the problem is that my old iMac is out-of-date, but it handled the old format fine. Anyone else having problems?
Beyond, you are funny, I mean really. I am glad you found “more important things to do”. You know, Girard did too, in an earlier post. Are you doing the same “important things” I wonder? Like… what? Do you mind sharing? And how do you distinguish between importance of things? ;)
You see, I spent so much time doing various stuff I thought was so important… And now it doesn’t seem important at all… How the heck do we know?
This blog fully represents life as much as anything else. Life is the same everywhere. And there is as much consciousness here as it is anywhere else in life.
Mental discriminating and dividing only leads to suffering, hatred and negativity. I only wish you to actually BE on neither side… Like when there are no sides to be seen… Because there are no “sides” in reality, just life, as is, now. No need to be “beyond” or “above”, just be where you are and enjoy.
And here is a warmest virtual HUG to you!
Before the blog fades away I would like to hear from “prior young worker” and “onthefieldofmars” and especially anyone who is within a reasonable driving distance of Detroit and might consider getting together. Please contact me at: rdvat at sbcglobal dot com
I enjoyed the photos. Thanks for sharing them.
Ralph H.
“Dear, I love you as long as you pay me money,
if you stop doing so you be on a decending octave.”
“Oh sir, if you say that true than it must be true,
and I better pay you quick.”
“Yes dear, you will save your soul by doing so.”
“Thank you sir, I will pay and stop thinking for
myself, that are just dumb I’s anyway.”
“Yes dear, and don’t you forget this,
as long as you pay me you are wonderfull
and you are one of the few lucky ones.”
“Thank you sir for sowing me the light.”
Beyond wrote: “We live in a dualistic world. Otherwise there is only Beyond :-)
In Wonderland, you know, there was the White Queen and the Red Queen.
And there was Alice which represents the Beyond.”
Thank you for your response! And, actually, Alice was just another character in that play…not much “choice” there…. It was Lewis Carol who was the ‘beyond’ – or was it the guy who played ‘lewis carol’ (can’t remember his name at the moment)? Lewis Carol managed to create a very colorful piece of literature, much expanded from the dualistic black and white.
I don’t mind someone trying to “raise the level” of the blog and I hope you will reconsider your intention to not post – you would be missed. You said:
“Regarding conscience. I am not an expert on this matter.
I do believe that Ouspensky said, that conscience can only be experienced in the Third state. And I do not believe very much in “human” conscience. These are just two completely different things. I experience conscience as a deep understanding that all human beings are suffering because they are asleep. It is a Buddhist way to see this. But this is how I understand this.”
Not sure what you mean by the last part of your paragraph, but what is wrong with “human”?? To be deeply and sincerely human is a great achievement! Why do you assume the ‘third state’ is not human?? To treat each other with humanity and to explore our inner humanity is not so bad…. Why do you not “BELIEVE” in that? If we are trying to get to some sort of consciousness that is not human we are essentially trying to escape and that is a “wrong triad”, as the work language goes. Escape is not the answer, it is the going into the depth that really works….going down the rabbit hole.
Beyond…You know what, you’re a legend in your own mind. And your airy fairy shit is starting to really bug me. Give it a rest.
Dear All,
Have a laugh.
If the predictions were to be taken symbolically, maybe the skirt exercise is symbolically?
Maybe the teaching payments are to be taken symbolically —-Try it out, nice experiment.
Maybe the 20 or more generators rented in 1998, costing thousands of dollars were to be taken symbolically?
Maybe the wit exercise is symbolically…hurray we can have fun again and laugh at the Apollo d’Oro.
Maybe the- not- talking- to- ex students exercise has to be taken symbolically, yahooo…
Was I mislead…all these years? Wearing skirts, and ties and throwing out my jeans. Paying all that money? Poor center directors who got all these people in the fellowship of friends and finally many of them in Oregon House. Do you have sleep less- nights, is your conscience keeping you awake?
Sorry for all who got others in the fellowship of friends and sorry for all teachers in the fellow ship of friends who were not able to teach clearly…who were not able to communicate the symbolical.
So much symbolically…misunderstood and so much hurt, so much grief.
Who said it was easy to leave. Leaving in this sense is grieving, mourning, giving up illusions, part of dying. It hurts. Maybe not the spirit. The spirits uses the body for that expression. It HURTS, hurts to start all over and leaving many people behind.
O I forgot it was all mend to be symbolically.
Pfff what a bad dream.
Love to all of you.
Joe Average: Excellent post! Thanks for that!
Beyond:
“‘Victim psychology’ only means that you see the world through the lens of blame and/or guilt. Guilt is passive and blame is active. Both are representations of ‘Victim psychology’.”
Again you do not speak from your being, but from your intellectual constructs. This blog is dedicated to one subject and anyone who offers criticism about this one subject you assume is seeing the whole WORLD through a particular lens??? You lack proper scale and relativity in your thinking. Cite the post that claims the FOF is to blame for all their problems then you can talk.
“(Releasing and expressing negative emotions) this is a tricky thing to do. If you think you can hold “without identification” part, you may achieve something good. But, ‘Releasing and expressing’ are two different things in my opinion.”
You are right. It is advanced work, not for wimps. You can release the negative emotions by expressing them without identification. If you identify with them, they return. But first you must realize that the non-expression of negative emotions is the FOF’s main indoctrination technique. The military uses this same technique in their “code of conduct” to keep everyone in line. Hierarchies are kept in place when subordinates are not allowed to question superiors.
“If one has experienced love and consciousness through having sex with the teacher, and even if the teacher has sex with many other people, then I see nothing wrong with this.”
That’s a big ‘if’. One would have to grasp love and consciousness first, which is an even bigger step. Sex is the easy part. Again you make sweeping statements without seeing the truth. Robert’s sexual encounters are not between equals, and for many years not with people whom might naturally gravitate toward homosexuality. Is that love? Or sex with minors, is that consciousness as well?
“‘Beyond’ sounds fairly idealistic and narcissistic to me.”
Hey, if the shoe fits…if you understood the nature of narcissism; you would understand what I mean.
“Oh yes, it does apply to all experiences of our life. If you think of meditation as separate from the rest of your activity, you missed the whole meaning of spiritual development. You have to bring your practice to all circumstances of your life!”
I meditate for insights and emotional processing. Once that is accomplished I chop wood and carry water with a quiet and attentive mind. Sure you can meditate on your belly button all you want. If you don’t make meditation and life separate, you become a stupid saint and trip on your robe. I practice conscious living in all circumstances in my life. How about you? Or pray tell, what is the ‘whole meaning of spiritual development’, that I am missing?
“…if I do not agree with someone it does not mean that I disrespect them.”
You disrespect someone else’s process by making generalized assumptions about them. Case in point:
“Very few are interested in real experiences of Higher States of consciousness and the struggle of achieving them. Most are preoccupied with illusory experiences of resentment and betrayal. And this is just the way things are on planet Earth. And this blog is just a small representation of this life. Unfortunately, not the most conscious part.”
Dude, the way you are headed, there is more consciousness represented in this blog than you will have in your entire life.
WhaleRider
1979-85
Sheik: Thanks for your continued support. 2 questions on the new format:
1. I miss the message numbers, and it seemed that almost everyone used them. Any way to get them back?
2. Nothing about taste, but I was surprised at your theme, not previously having any linkage between a color swatch book and anything remotely connected to your various blogs. Any response appreciated.
JoelF
Dear Friends,
At the Memorial Day reunion, a little remembrance altar was set up to honor the memory of friends who had been in the Fellowship of Friends, for however long or short a time, and who had passed away. Several of us put together a list of all of those that we could remember, but memory being imperfect, we’re certain that we are missing names. I was recently saddened to have had to add Dorothy Beaulieu’s name to the list.
Our list is posted below, and we would like to ask that, if you know of anyone who should be remembered and has been omitted, please post their name to this discussion. If we’ve misspelled any names, please let us know that, too.
With gratitude,
JonathanF.
“For some we loved, the loveliest and the best
That from his Vintage rolling Time hath prest,
Have drunk their Cup a Round or two before,
And one by one crept silently to rest.”
+——————–+
In Memoriam
Dorothy Beaulieu (Fielding)
Kimo Beech
Ilan Beth
Christopher Billings
Don Birrell
Doris Birrell
Peter Bishop
Charles Boetschi
Diana Bolton
Darryl Bowden
William Burns
Robert Calvillo
Roger Cavanna
Kenneth Clelland
Renato Confalonieri
Ronald Coyle
Stephen Detmold
Adrianna Diaz
Doris Elizabeth
Michael Fleming
Lori Fisher-Smith
Richard Focazio
Charles Forline
Jim Freeman
Christopher Frew
Randolph Giddings
Edward Greaves
Roger Greene
Anna Gold
Howard Hildebrand
Richard Hocking (Hart)
Dianna Ivasko
Gary James
Virginia Jenkins
Frances Kalnay
Joanne Keahey
Susan Kearns
Kevin Kelly
Raymond Kennedy
Cynthia Kingston
Dennis Kocjan
Agnes Kuchuk
Jessica Lee
Matthias McDonald
Rosemary MacDonald
Janet Male
Sharole Mannering
Joseph Monteleone
Joseph Moreno
Clare Morris
Thomas Nicholson
David Nikhazy
Kristina Nielsen
Frances Ninemire (Barrett)
Neal O’Brien
Nette Ornbak
Ronald Payton
Maria Rosa Perelli
Joanne Munger Pontecorvo
Alberto Rizzardi
Stanley Robertson
Cassandra (Marianne) Schmidt
Marbin Schmidt
Bill Serrao
Brian Sisler
Mildred Smith
Maxine Topik
Paul Tschirley
Daniella Voss
Karl Werner
Susan Willoughby
Stella Wirk
+——————–+
Gay Dominance
It is this really what it has come to boys and girls of the Fellowship of Friends, you are content to live as drudging money suppliers for an evil authoritarian fag, who has long since crystallized in the wrong hydrogens, while taking “esoteric instructions” from As-if Beaverboy? The ballet, the opera, classical music, lovely fussed-over clothes, artificially genteel manners, conversations about European art, etc., all these typical Castro Street obsessions that C influence coincidentally insists that crazy Bob’s gold-leaf gay school indulge in so that you can experience higher consciousness – do you honestly believe that you have no other choice? Do you really believe that Christ and Buddha, Gurdjieff and Ouspensky, have agreed that this is the only way that “The Way” should to be conducted? Do you honestly think the immortals are eternally enjoying high tea and insist that their fag representative on earth make his hapless followers live the same way? Remember all this was originally for the sake of the Great Ark, the survival of Hydrogen Warefare, “Armageddon has wrung a school out of the Gods!” Do you see how sadly pathetic you’ve become? Look at yourself sitting at a meeting, one you coughed up a hundred bucks to be at so that in your endless sleep you will be sure to value the experience, attentively listening to As-if Beaverboy, freshly sucked-off by the greatest self-lover to grace the world since Nero or Caligula, while yet another Anointed Hopeful (how many does that make now, five?) tells you how to wake up. You have lost your f*cking minds. C influence has left the school, they are here with us. We are the awakened fortunate escapees while you live entirely oppressed under the unnecessary rule of gay dominance. Come out of there and finally face yourself and the positive shock of the real world. C influence has left the school and so should you.
Joe Average
Just kind of playing off the first paragraph of your post. Not going into the delusion part this is how I conceptualize the situation.
Presence is an illusion. It is the interface of consciousness and essence, let’s say pressence. The soul is a temporary entity that exists only while we are incarnate. Consciousness can never be seen or experienced because it is the seer and experiencer. Pressence can, however, be experienced as this moment. This experience is completely unique to each individual who has ever or will ever exist. This explains the diverse opinions about it and experience of it.
The problem with this description is that it portrays essence as monolithic and consciousness as static and lacking qualities. Or put more simply: Here, take this cannonball. Hope the water is deep.
There’s some interesting stuff posted here. But the form (that word again) of this blog is kind of clumsy– no threading of responses, no topic headings. It’s kind of hard to follow.
Also, I have a terrible time just accessing the site. I get 504 Gateway Timeout errors, sometimes for hours at a stretch. Is it just me or does any one else have that issue?
(Corrected version)
Gay Dominance
Is this really what it has come to boys and girls of the Fellowship of Friends, you are content to live as drudging money suppliers for an evil authoritarian fag, who has long since crystallized in the wrong hydrogens, while taking “esoteric instructions” from As-if Beaverboy? The ballet, the opera, classical music, lovely fussed-over clothes, artificially genteel manners, conversations about European art, etc., all these typical Castro Street obsessions that C influence coincidentally insists that crazy Bob’s gold-leaf gay school indulge in so that you can experience higher consciousness – do you honestly believe that you have no other choice? Do you really believe that Christ and Buddha, Gurdjieff and Ouspensky, have agreed that this is the only way that “The Way” should be conducted? Do you honestly think the immortals are eternally enjoying high tea and insist that their fag representative on earth make his hapless followers live the same way? Remember all this was originally for the sake of the Great Ark, the survival of Hydrogen Warfare, “Armageddon has wrung a school out of the Gods!” Do you see how sadly pathetic you’ve become? Look at yourself sitting at a meeting, one you coughed up a hundred bucks to be at so that in your endless sleep you will be sure to value the experience, attentively listening to As-if Beaverboy, freshly sucked-off by the greatest self-lover to grace the world since Nero or Caligula, while yet another Anointed Hopeful (how many does that make now, five?) tells you how to wake up. You have lost your f*cking minds. C influence has left the school, they are here with us. We are the awakened fortunate escapees while you live entirely oppressed under the unnecessary rule of gay dominance. Come out of there and finally face yourself and the positive shock of the real world. C influence has left the school and so should you.
Predictions were useful to create a temporary sense of final urgence in the machinery, until the real and permanent sense of urgence becomes clear: is a way to create friction. They will always happen as needed for an aim.
Without that predictions whoever used them to be present would have more blank space in his experience as the machine will ordinarily keep thinking that it will live forever and delay the urgence of necessary efforts, that is promoting sleep. Of course No Person can avoid that.
It is the largest scale that demonstrates the value of things and the largest scale can be seen only from the present moment.
It is demonstrated now that most students didn’t understand the value and use of predictions at the time as they don’t understand it now.
Robert is not a ’stupid’ as by now us all should begin to guess and he just uses the tools that C influence* (which is not ordinary dual thought that keep us away from presence) tell him to use for the aim of being present. And he just goes with that higher forces.
What has ‘HE’ gained from repeated failing predictions in the long run? He didn’t care about the high possiblity of the(repeated) failure.
Presence Is Not In The Future.
Who has gained anything from them?
Right attitudes toward the right Thing.
GOlb
* a sweetie wrote somewere here (part 10) that at the deepest level of our individual beings our real ’selves’ are ONE. The influence of that real SELF is called C-onscious.
Okay, I changed the theme – I much prefered the previous format but the lack of numbered posts was a real problem.
If you are having problems viewing it all, try other internet browsers – in particular mozilla firefox.
And don’t worry about the image on the top of the blog, it is preset and I will change it as soon as I realize what better picture to put there.
I may experiment with a different type of moderation – I will try leaving things going in real time and see how it goes. If it doesn’t work well, I will go back to manual moderation as I did on Animam Recro.
And to those of you who don’t like my post on top, well, I have taken it from an impartial site (wikipedia) and added the same stuff I always do.
Well Esoteric Sheik,
This is quite a revealing forum you have here. Read it for the first time today.
As someone who grew up unattached to the FOF but with a birds eye view to the black, white and greys of the group it has been a new layer to my understanding to the spiritual chemistry involved.
As an independent journalist myself it would be of mutual interest if you were to offer up your email adress that seems to be cloaked in this good but somewhat chaotic forum. (i.e. It’s like some blasted customer service link from hell with a constant loop of no contact).
- A fellow Spiritual Chronicler of the Times
I will be using the same e-mail address as before, ie.:
recroanima/at/gmail.com
Thanks In Memoriam for the touching post.
Howard Carter
Thank you for responding.
Cs: “When was the last time the teacher gave you a personal observation to help you become more awake?”
Hc: He gave me several personal observations 20 years ago that I am still working on.
Cs: If the aim of the school is to awaken its participants then meeting your teacher once every 20 years is not enough, not for the money you are paying.
Hc: My understanding is that the school gives us something (the ability to SR) but also wants something in return; They (Influence C) want our consciousness. They want our efforts to build their/our school.
Cs: What happens to someone who awakens in the school? Is he asked to stay or go away?
We know of the No Person case (Post 1-60).
He/She was asked to take a leave of abscense. It showes that that the aim is at list not to keep students who have reached awakening.
Cs: What are the aims of the school right now?
Hc: The same as always, to create consciousness in its participants. Other subservient aims go under the heading of creating the “form” and change from time to time.
What happened to the aim of establishing an arc (whatever that means). If that aim went out the window we were not notified.
Many students leave in poor living conditions using their credit cards to the limits. How beneficial is that for awakening?
Cs:“How does “Cave drawings” images help you to Self Remember?
Hc: ” The theory is that all schools are the same school; they communicate with their future counterparts through the works they leave behind. Apparently the rust of sleep is so encrusted that we need to keep hearing the same thing said many ways to stir the emotions sufficiently to shake that rust away
Cs: The “cave drawings” are beautiful but they are not the work of ancient schools. They have no “Hidden messages”.
Helena:
You are too harsh on Girard, please give him some slack. Your marital problems are common in most marriages.
Siddiq: Dear No Person–perhaps it is not only about “being happy in the FOF”–I for one think a great deal can be improved so let me ask you for your PRACTICAL SUGGESTIONSi for those of us who may choose to stay in the FOF–how could we work on making the FOF a better place? Thanks (and I am not being sarcastic here).”
CS: Please add to the list of 30 work I’s the word TRUTH.
As in: BE-HOLD-TRUTH-BACK-TRUTH-BE.
You might exchange the word truth also for SINCERITY, HONESTY, INTEGRITY and COMPASSION.
Thank you
Helena:
I am swimming in the river of truth, and I do not know to which side of the river I might land.
chopsticks
In Memoriam
Henry Vasquez (Miami/NewYork centers) died 1991.
To GOlb (#11-34)
Most of your post is sheer imagination of the wrong kind, and a great demonstration of sleep while talking about being awake, or trying to give the impression thereof. Every affirmation you make for Burton is a lie, pure and simple. You have no idea why he made the predictions. All you can say, truthfully, is that he made them. You yourself may have used them (as I understand you to say—your meaning is rather unclear), that is, to provide personal friction, a sense of urgency. It is possible that Burton may have even meant this for the students generally. But, you cannot know, so you are lying. It sounds to me like you are repeating some meme that has sprung up among the faithful to justify Burton’s failures, because sentences like “It is the largest scale that demonstrates the value of things and the largest scale can be seen only from the present moment” are meaningless even after allowing for your poor language skills. The semantic content adds up to zero. You are also lying when you make another affirmation for Burton, “He didn’t care about the high possibility of the (repeated) failure.” First of all, there was no mention of the “high possibility” of failure when he made his predictions. You have added that yourself, based on your excellent hindsight. Secondly, you lie when you claim he didn’t care. You cannot know.
Moving on. You didn’t answer the question, “What has ‘HE’ gained from repeated failing predictions in the long run?” The answer is, on the surface, “nothing”. That is the one you are fishing for. But I think there is a more subtle answer. Burton used the prediction to reinforce his image as a higher being/god, because prophecy (windows into the future) is one of the attributes or powers he thinks a higher being should have. Then he invited his followers to enter that fantasy with him. This was a step–by–step process, incremental. The objective was to gain power over his followers, because if they suspend their own judgment and ability to discriminate in favor of his version of reality, they become more dependent on him. A personal example: in 1993, Burton came up to me, pointed at his forehead and said, “Dear, do you see an eye here, looking out at you?”. I replied, “Do you mean literally, a third physical eye where your pineal gland is?”. He said, “Yes, I am looking out at you through a third eye, the eye of an angel. Do you see it?”. I asked again, “Do you mean literally a third eye, physically the same as your other eyes?”. He said, “Yes”. I replied, “No, Robert, I don’t see a literal third eye, all I can see is your forehead.” He said, “Well, I am an angel, there is a third eye looking out at you. Are you sure you can’t see it?”. I said, “I’m sorry, Robert, I don’t see it”. Then he turned away.
I saw this as a clear invitation to enter his fantasy. It’s only a guess, but I’d say that many students would have gone with him into his fantasy, and said that they did see a literal third eye. I say this, because I watched others do exactly that on many occasions, either by actively accepting his invitation, or by silently acquiescing or not protesting; this happened very often at dinners, as he described his fantasies out loud in his monologues. Depending on the subject, the fantasy evoked either fear or infatuation, (either will send followers to sleep, but both are inimical to awakening and individuation).
When the predictions fail, a student has at least two types of choices. They can follow Burton deeper into the fantasy (C-Influence has used this to humiliate me), make affirmations for him, like Golb and others in this blog, which just deepen the hypnosis, or buffer it completely, maybe with self-calming phrases like, “I’ll just record this as a theory”. Another set of choices might include re-evaluating the whole sorry mess, recognizing the weaknesses that led one to accept the fantasy, and backing out.
So, to answer your final question, Golb, “Who has gained anything from them?”, I answer, “Robert Burton”. He has you fast, you think you are more real because you have adopted his fantasies, you are a good little follower who is blessed, you have a great collection of affirmations you trot out to help keep your fellows asleep on his behalf, and sayings for every occasion. He has your money and your adoration. He may even have the use of your body, for all I know. Multiply by 1900 or so. Sweet deal. For once, you’re certainly right, Burton is not a ‘stupid’—on that level.
With love to you, and everyone ‘on the blog’,
Ames
Virginia Jenkins died in November 2006.
Correction, Virginia jenkins died in November 2005
+——————–+
In Memoriam
Rourke Murphy
+——————–+
At the last, tenderly,
From the walls of the powerful, fortress’d house,
From the clasp of the knitted locks—from the keep of the well-closed doors,
Let me be wafted.
Let me glide noiselessly forth;
With the key of softness unlock the locks—with a whisper
Set ope the doors, O soul!
Tenderly! be not impatient!
(Strong is your hold, O mortal flesh!
Strong is your hold, O love!)
-Walt Whitman
For those interested, the minutes of the Governing Board of the Lafayette School District meeting of March 27, 1967 are now available online:
http://www.archive.org/details/TheEsotericHistoryArchive_907
Bernadette Fuquay, who had other names, died in 2000, I believe.
To Chopsticks,
You’re perfectly right but most other men are not pretending to be conscious and using people’s credibility to continue supporting someone even more sleep than him.
Hopefully you’ll eventually understand that it is not really the intimacy of our marriage that I am exposing, it is the objective look of what we’ve been trying to work towards, where and how we have failed. There are no separate lines as people pretend to establish. Here is the narcissistic sex maniac, here is the conscious being. Here is the porno addict, stereotype macho, here is the conscious being. Here is the bad wife, here is the bad student, here is another one we can dump out of our illusion.
In the intimacy of our marriage there was love. Like in any marriage. We both tried our best. I have no problem acknowledging that, it is precious. What I am exposing is the fact that there is no coherence between Robert or Girard’s first, second or third line with consciousness and if it is the case that they are as sleep as anybody else, they are pretending that they have verified each other’s so that another bunch of fools like the fourteen thousand of us, continue supporting their illusion for the rest of their lives. That to me is fraud, that is what I am questioning.
No, I’ll take my pain and deal with it but I won’t stay silent about the great contradictions around here.
To Siddiq,
Would you please expand on the nature of your friendship with Robert? I’ve seen that he is not even a friend to his promised to be second conscious being on the planet, so what service are you doing to him that makes you more acceptable? Has he ever sat with you without any agenda?
Around here when people are not counting money they are counting time and never have time for friendship. It is all a convenient interchange of services.
Friendship, second line, is out of time, that is why it never developed consciously in the fellowship. Men serve Robert for twenty years, thirty and he discards them equally. That is not friendship.
Yours must be like that because I’ve not seen you around no matter how difficult it’s been. You love this virtual friendship with the computer, right?
Talking of which, if someone knows of any young teenager available for some work I’d be wiling to pay them.
Please e-mail me at ludoteka at succeed dot net
Thank you.
In Memoriam
Robert Gall (Paris center) died 1992
Kim Kan (Paris center) died 2004
To the Sheik,
Surely it’s taken effort to change the format, thank you. It is much easier to read in white.
On the sketchbook, if you’re really willing to wait for a long time I might eventually get to it but it doesn’t look like it is going to be me. The quality of the blog has much improved or maybe I’ve just learned to take all the negative angles and swallow them. The controversy is vital and alive and it shows who we are as much as anything else.
Between leaving the Fellowship, separating, Dorothy’s death and moving out of here I won’t be getting to the sketch book in the near future but it is a dream for further ahead.
If anyone else wishes to make that selection of material from here, I’d be happy to give them the role.
In Memoriam
Katy Kudo?
To Siddiq,
I thought I’d already sent this but it doesn’t appear.
Would you please expand on the nature of your friendship with Robert? I’ve seen that he is not even a friend to his promised to be second conscious being on the planet, so what service are you doing to him that makes you more acceptable? Has he ever sat with you without any agenda?
Around here when people are not counting money they are counting time and never have time for friendship. It is all a convenient interchange of services.
Friendship, second line, is out of time, that is why it never developed consciously in the fellowship. Men serve Robert for twenty years, thirty and he discards them equally. That is not friendship.
Yours must be like that because I’ve not seen you around no matter how difficult it’s been.
Hello Sheik,
I just posted a comment to the new blog without entering my mail address. Was that post lost? It seemed to disappear. If that is the case, I will try and reconstruct it.
Thanks for everything.
To 29:
Names that I did not see listed include: Nancy Farrell, Bernadette Fuquay-Domingo (?), Mitchell Potter, Louis-Marie Clancy, Mary Blake and Michael Praetorius. Also Frances Calney should probably be spelled Francis Calney (he was a male, I believe). Thanks Jonathan F., for doing this.
_____
To 30, “The King of Clubs”
The true nature of “The King of Clubs” is starting to shine through, or so it would seem. A bit homophobic, perhaps…
To Siddiq, post #19
I have looked up the significance of the word/name Siddiq (feminine form: Siddiqah BTW) Arabic word meaning “truthful”. In Sufism, Siddiq is a rank that comes after prophet. Generally given to a person who verified the claim of prophethood in its early stage.
1. Would you please elaborate on what you consider to be the important characteristics of friendship?
2. Would you be so kind as to elaborate as to what, specifically, you have verified about Rovert Burton’s claim to be a man #7, and a prophet of God?
BTW, I appreciate your posts, but question the beneficience of your loyalty.
I am glad Sheik is willing to continue to offer this “stage” for us!
Thank you!
I left the FOf recently and I was prepared to “sacrifice” the beautiful friends… Not necessary!
Of course, some will will be remembered but not experienced any longer while others (Is this not a good news ?), will firmly state their willingness to continue meeting you!
I did not know what would be my reaction when the various mails regarding the FOF (daily cards, official or comunity messages and so on) would stop appearing.
The good news is that there is, so far, so special feeling about that as well.
I did not know about my desire to continue experiencing presence. Here too, the worries were all the way unecessary!
I gess I am talking about fear(s) here…
All the way unecessary!
To leave the School is a “big” change, in my case, stimulating many other major changes, in others areas of my life, were “confort” was prevailing as well.
Because, yes, the FOF was confortable place to be…
As anyone knows, confort and creativity does not dance together…
No biterness, resentments or anger:
I am a product of the FOF but no longer in need ‘to belong” to it.
My departure was simple, natural, healthy.
If there will be any regret, it could be not to have organized a “good by” party!
Champagne, music, poetry… Good by my fancy!
Ready, well prepared for other experiences, I walk, and even dance on that “ground”…
Let me finish with this:
“EVIDENCE”
phonetically, in French language can sound like!
“ET VIE DANCE”
which could be translated:
AND=Et
LIFE=Vie
DANCE=Danse
And Life Dance!
Gratitude.
Marilyn Scott, I believe.
Regarding the continued discussion of the Fellowship of Friends and Robert Burton, a friend of mine compared it to a group of people who have escaped from an insane asylum. Instead of leaving they gather at a window and continue to look inside, periodically turning to each other and exclaiming, “Did you see what he/they did?!!!”
There is probably a little truth in this analogy but there is more to this prolonged dialogue than a morbid interest in the sick and distorted relationship between RB and his followers.
As many have said before, it continues because there is a need to understand and have the truth revealed and acknowledged. Unfortunately, there will never be any acknowledgement or even recognition of wrong doing on the part of RB and/or his enablers.
The organization and the leader are very, very sick and worse, they have no shred of conscience.
Most of the sincere posters on this blog are speaking from conscience to people whose consciences are damaged. It is like speaking two different languages. Almost pointless.
Writing here for my brother Siddiq
there are degrees of friendship
the lowest degree is where you place your bother on the same footing as your slave or your servant, attending to his needs from your surplus
at the second degree you place your brother on the same footing as yourself, you are content to have him as a partner in your property adn to treat him like yourself, sharing equally
at the third degree, you prefer your brother to yourself and set his need before your own, this is the degree of the Siddiq, and the final stage for those united in spiritual love
I am still hoping to hear from the spin doctors of the FOF Wikipedia entrys.
To say that the predictions were only symbolic is shamelessly insulting to the followers who kept the TASK of quiting their jobs to move to Oregon House for three months prior to Burton’s prediction of the fall of California. I personally know of several people who lost good jobs and are still paying off huge debts because of this. The alternative to keeping this task was to be asked to leave the group. There was one person who managed to stay in the school and not keep this task and it was only because he was too wealthy to risk losing.
When it was timidly mentioned to him by one person that it had taken ten years to pay off the debt incured by keeping this exercise, RB was outraged at the implication that he might have some responsibility for this burden.
How do you justify claiming that these “predictions” and the actions and tasks issuing from them were symbolic? This is fast talking at it’s best.
“To leave the School is a “big” change, in my case, stimulating many other major changes, in others areas of my life, were “confort” was prevailing as well.
Because, yes, the FOF was confortable place to be…”
Yes, because actually you only thought you were in the School!
Of course you can get even more mechanical comfort out here….
Thank you, Sheik.
I like the new format. And thanks for adding the numbers. The Find function in MS Internet Explorer finally works on them, unlike the previous format. The layout is also a little wider, making it easier to read, or scroll through, those lo-o-o-o-o-ng posts.
I like the new picture so much I made it a scrrensaver. A pleasant, serene retreat that sits at the top of my screen above the ‘exercised’ nature of this discussion. But, as you quote in the header, “Free speech is a dirty business.”
Sheik
Thanks for the format adjustments, looks much better.
FYI, I haven’t had any technical problems with the new blog.
14 Joe Average
Fantastic post, way “above average.” Please keep writing.
29 In memoriam
I believe it’s Francis Kalnay.
Elena
I have a lovely book of daily photos of tibetan buddhists with accompanying quotes. Here’s today’s:
When there’s a disappointment I don’t know if it’s the end of the story.
But it may be just the beginning of a great adventure.
JoelF
Hey Sheik-
The new format is very good. I’m having no problem with my browser and the real time update is excellent.
To Joel F: Thanks for posting the quote. It would be nice to see more postings like that.
So many of the posts on the blog are oozing personality and that’s fine. The blog is a very diverse environment- just like life, and one has to use their own personal discrimination to decide which words to hold on to and which one’s to let go.
I think the blog is a very positive thing and it’s very useful to have a place where you can meet and talk to other’s who have been in the fellowship and who have spent quite a bit of time working with fourth way ideas.
Regards to all
Opus 111 #53-page 1, new blog
To 33, “The King of Clubs”
“The true nature of “The King of Clubs” is starting to shine through, or so it would seem. A bit homophobic, perhaps…”
___________
“Homophobic” is a double-think idea used by gay dominance to put people in fear if they sound politically incorrect about how natural it is for hairy, muscular, testosterone exuding naked apes to find it appealing and exciting to stick their penises up one another’s asses. Such cravings are definitely a propensity of the sensitive king of hearts.
A small portion of the population are born homosexual, they do not choose to be attracted to the same sex and they have no choice about what their essence wants. They should not be judged harshly or persecuted, until their emotional instinct to put the rest of us under gay dominance becomes a factor. To the rest of us it is not particularly “lovely” when men are sexually aggressive toward other men. This is why gay men have lived in fear for their lives in the recent past, when they seek their own they are left alone. But here is what the real issue is, the Dictator of Isis gets a non-gay male alone (usually drunk and often in a foreign country) and subtly threatens him about what it is going to be like when he is no longer in the “inner circle” if he refuses to submit to being spiritually-sexually molested. This is spiritual cannibalism. Look here:
“After a few weeks of living at Renaissance, following a heavy drinking ’symposium’, Robert took me inside of one of the Academy rooms and wanted to have sex with me.
“When I told him that I did not want this because I had no homosexual feelings, nor did I want to see myself assume those practices, Robert dismissed my arguments by saying that I should externally consider him as my teacher.
“Partly out of fear for this ‘all powerful’ being, partly not to want to feel guilty or judged, but largely because of the energy with which Robert approached me, I was left with the feeling I had no choice.
“While Robert went about his business of trying to stimulate an orgasm from me which he was going to receive orally I pointed out to him that I was covering my face with my hands out of shame. Robert retorted that this was a good opportunity for work for me.
“This was the beginning of my functioning as a sexual servant which lasted for several years.”
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ArkansasBob/message/9
Any other observations Opie?
Tim C. (18): Quoting Al Gore: “The unwillingness to solve this problem is not only the result of a lack of political will, but it has also been caused by the emergence of a new political environment dangerously hostile to reason, knowledge, and facts.”
Vena (57): “Unfortunately, there will never be any acknowledgement or even recognition of wrong doing on the part of RB and/or his enablers… Most of the sincere posters on this blog are speaking from conscience to people whose consciences are damaged. It is like speaking two different languages. Almost pointless.”
Similar to those in power in today’s American political climate, Robert Burton and his enablers have one “advantage” in any attempt to communicate with them: They don’t tell people what they are thinking; instead, they tell people what they want them to believe they are thinking.
The reason? Their intent is not to inform but to misinform and obfuscate. Why? Because the spread of information does not work to their advantage. Disinformation and misinformation, meanwhile, do work to their advantage. Lack of genuine, honest communication is not an error — it’s a strategy. And it’s a strategy for preventing change that could affect their wealth, power, and way of life.
No true or meaningful communication can take place between two people when one or both parties are trying to hide the truth. It simply goes in circles.
This also explains why Fellowship wikipedia editors would suggest that Robert Burton’s predictions were only “symbolic” (see post 59 by Vena).
Why would they make such an absurd contention? Well, because the truth is damaging to their agenda — an agenda to present the Fellowship of Friends as positively as possible, and to distract everyone from issues that may present the Fellowhip of Friends negatively. Robert Burton predicted a worldwide depression would occur in 1984, the “fall of California” would occur in 1998, and World War III would occur in 2006. To put it mildly, these predictions reflect a weakness on Burton’s part (as well as a type of mental illness, which some of us have shared or continue to share with him, by the way), but these predictions also focus the discussion on how Robert Burton has had negative effects on the lives of many FOF members. So, in an attempt to distract people from these facts, the fof Wikipedia editors called it a metaphor.
Hmm. Maybe they were thinking no one would notice? I can’t blame them for thinking that, since apparently there are many things that we haven’t noticed over the years.
But trying to hide facts in this way — as Vena writes — is not conscience, is not consciousness, is not the Work, is not doing the will of spiritual beings, is not effort, is not the way of the sly man, is not true personality, and is not awakening.
Call it was it is. It is a lie. And as we are discovering, there are many more lies to be found.
GOlb #60:
“…because actually you only thought you were in the School!”
Ykes, it’s the thought police! Run for your lives!
Keep silent! Anything you ‘think’ can and will be used against you…
#55 You-me-us-they have been found to be in violation of FOF section 44, “Thinking on your own, failure to conform”!
Verdict: Guilty!
Bailiff, please escort this soul from prison and set them free.
And let that be a lesson to you.
#14, Joe Average
That was indeed a very good presentation, one that at least echoes my own experience.
Predictions may have been “theories”, they were in no way theoritical or symbolic. They were practical, with very practical implications for members, most amongst them those living in California before 1998. The tone of prophecies changed dramatically after 1998 and a couple of failed repeats. After that, they were mentioned rarely, and “the greatest of them all”, Armageddon 2006, passed un-noticed like a wet firecracker.
A question for Sheikh:
Is there a way to search all 10 previous pages of the discussion in a simple way, without having to repeat the search for every page?
MYSTERY!
What is it about humans that causes us to go totally loopy when we hear someone cry “mystery”?
Why are half of the documentaries you’ve ever seen on various Discovery-type channels titled “The Secrets of Deep Sea” and “The Mysteries of Ancient India” and “Hidden Treasures of Japan”? Or “Finally, the secret of successful dieting revealed!” Why does J.K. Rowling write a children’s book about a secret school where special powers are taught to young wizards who are inherently different from the rest of the people on Earth (“muggles”) and makes 4 billion dollars? Why do people get so excited over “illuminati” and conspiracy theories, secret societies? Why does a film called “The Secret” (to be outdone by “The Secret behind the Secret”), claiming that ancient secret teachers were keepers of secret knowledge that has been hidden in order to be preserved, and it has traveled through centuries to finally reach you, and promises to give you control of the events of your life – you can get anything you desire if you only focus on thinking and feeling positive – why does that become an international best-seller and the hottest thing in contemporary “spirituality”? Why do people become devoted to a Robert Burton who claims to be the only one on Earth with a special connection to mysterious higher forces, which include ancient authorities who support him (according to himself), and reveals hidden knowledge that has been kept secret for 30,000 years and is only now understood correctly for the first time, by him and his disciples, and who promises you can achieve control of your lower self and thereby save yourself from extinction?
A common theme running through esotericism is a small exclusive group of illuminati, in possession of a secret knowledge that gives them a decisive advantage over the rest of the uninitiated masses. This knowledge must be carefully guarded from being revealed to the unworthy. It cannot be understood by everybody, and is not readily apparent to anybody. It requires difficult payment and prolonged efforts to be accessible and attained. The possession of this knowledge makes people powerful and elevated above others. They hold out the promise that you will finally understand what life’s all about, what’s going on with the universe, and then you will be safe/saved. Finally, you’ve gotten hold of this one thing that you had always needed, that had always been missing, so that now, NOW you will be able to live correctly at last!
Today it’s called the Sequence:
A group of invisible highly evolved beings called Influence C exclusively transmits ancient esoteric knowledge to Robert. The aim is to use the Sequence to become a conscious being, just like eminent people in the past, such as Lincoln, Plato, Shakespeare and Buddha. The Sequence has been around for 30.000 years but has been kept hidden and not available to people at large. It has always been kept by the select few. Now it is being revealed to us for the first time in history. Traditions have called it so many different things. But every tradition, every religion, every philosophy, every school of the past tells us the same thing – they all understood the Sequence. By using it, we achieve prolonged presence, which is the hidden meaning of life on Earth. You should make a habit of it, remember to use it every day, live it, but it should never be a chore. Choose your thoughts carefully. You must control your imagination and not allow any negative thoughts to enter, because that’s when you lose. Also, intellectual understanding is not enough – you must find ways to make this emotional, because only the right emotion carries enough power to engage presence. When you’re negative, don’t express that emotion, find reasons to not express it, adopt a positive attitude about the school, don’t allow any I’s unrelated to promoting presence. When you become intentional and on fire for what you want, your higher centers will ignite and you will enter prolonged presence. It is a six-step process: Be, Hold, Look, Back, Look, Be. After the last step, you let go and enjoy the fruits of your efforts: prolonged presence. The Sequence is indisputable objective truth. Once you accept it, it is life-transforming. If you don’t understand it, it doesn’t mean you should reject it. If you feel it’s not working, or you are not getting results, you must be making the wrong efforts and you need to keep practicing and learning how to apply it. Don’t get frustrated, disappointed or doubtful; this will only drag you deeper into negativity. Choose your attitude intentionally and replace those negative feelings with unwavering trust. You can’t get anything out of the school if you focus on doubt and negativity instead of on the possibilities and wonderful opportunities. After all, R. W. Emerson said: “That which dominates our imaginations and our thoughts will determine our lives, and our character.”
Today it’s called the Secret:
A group of invisible highly evolved beings called Abraham exclusively transmits ancient esoteric knowledge to Esther. The aim is to use the Secret to become a joyous being, just like eminent people in the past, such as Lincoln, Plato, Shakespeare and Buddha. The Secret has been around for 2.000 years but has been kept hidden and not available to people at large. It has always been kept by the select few. Now it is being revealed to us for the first time in history. Traditions have called it so many different things. But every tradition, every religion, every philosophy, every avatar, every great leader of the past tells us the same thing – they all understood the Secret. By using it, we achieve anything we want, which is the hidden meaning of life on Earth. You should make a habit of it, remember to use it every day, live it, but it should never be a chore. Choose your thoughts carefully. You must control your random thoughts and not allow any negative thoughts to enter, because that’s when you lose. Also, intellectual understanding is not enough – you must find ways to make this emotional, because only the right feeling carries enough power to manifest what you want. When you’re feeling down, change your emotion, think of something beautiful, then dwell on it, block everything out but that thought. When you become intentional and on fire for what you want, the universe will deliver all you want around you. It is a three-step process: Ask, Believe, Receive. After the last step, you let go and enjoy the fruits of your efforts: your new car. The Secret is an objective universal law, it works for everybody, all the time. Once you accept it, it is life-transforming. If you don’t understand it, it doesn’t mean you should reject it. If you feel it’s not working, or you are not getting results, you must be wrongly focusing on what’s lacking, and you must learn how to apply it better. Don’t get frustrated, disappointed or doubtful, because the universe will just respond and manifest failure. Choose your attitude intentionally and replace those negative feelings with unwavering faith. You won’t get results if you keep focusing on what is not there instead of already feeling good. After all, R. W. Emerson said: “The Secret is the answer to all that has been, all that is, and all that will ever be.”
Take your pick: which do you want to believe? Do we find one more believable than the other? More noble? The same arguments can be used to support any end. In what ways is wanting to get presence and immortality different from wanting to get a million dollars and a soul-mate?
The same fundamental need for “special” in us morphs into different external forms. Should we prefer one form over the other? If yes, why?
Thank you for nourishing my process so much in this right tool for it which is an anonymous blog. Of course some waste needs a name.
By the way, do you remember that arguing in part 3 about you, me, him, she, them, us? Do anyone remember? What was that about? huh?
…oh yes, all the same.
Elimination
Since sex seems to be an intrinsic part of this discussion, I thought I would introduce you all to a little known scientific hypothesis that has the unique propery of being instantly verifiable by every thinking person on the planet.
“Sex is hereditary. If your parents never had it, chances are you won’t either.”
Quoted from Joseph Fischer
From #69 (Great post, Traveler):
“Take your pick: which do you want to believe? Do we find one more believable than the other? More noble? The same arguments can be used to support any end. In what ways is wanting to get presence and immortality different from wanting to get a million dollars and a soul-mate?”
I’ve been out of FoF for a long time so bear with me here. Where did the idea that we need to “get” presence, a soul and immortality come from? I know it came from G & O and Co., but before that?
What if we already have those things? What if our “work” is to remove layers of cruft that keep us from being aware of the soul/presence we have innately and living our lives with and through that awareness?
Respons to Golb (60).
I did not leave the FOF because I did not want to work anymore but because I wanted to !
Some tools help, others do not help.
Quite simple!
Yes, Golb, I realised the FOF was “confort”,
because you see, even the taste for “struggle”, “effort”, “bleeding” is, somewhat, confortable…
When not addictive for some!
Shall I try this one?
I struggle, so I AM!
Right… Too obvious!
Feel for yourself the most genuine nature of my message.
Its main point point was about “creativity”…
There is a strange contest still going on, unfruitfully,
since centuries if not millenia:
the more wounds (+/= tranformation of),
the more laurel leaves (or thorns) on your crown…
the more confortable your chair in paradise!
I wrote some words, time ago, on a painting from Jeronimous Bosch. A triptic giving his vision of earth, hell and paradise.
He was inspired enough to propose a view of paradise which is as disturbing as the one of hell!
The “black and white” (life versus FOF) clothing is given to people when they enter a prison!
Could it be that the verticality of the stripes brought one any higher?
Gratitude.
PS if you were to answer this post, please do not “struggle” hard to find another stand point.
To Wale Rider, post 66:
Right post number?
Any omen here ?
Thanks! Wonderful ‘co-incidence’ with the prison metaphore!
When the given verticality of the human form unites the given vertical stripes of the uniform…
And for “free”!
Gratitude.
Dear friends
are you sitting comfortably and deeply engaged with presence? Then let us begin. Some of you have asked why there are so many jewish people in the leadership of the non school.
Have a look at “The protocols of the elders of zion”if you get a chance.
Personally i have nothing against jews or gays in fact most of my friends are gay jews.
But back to seriousness, to our american friends are you aware that every major network for film, tv, radio and news are jewish owned. Hollywood “which is the kind of wood which a majic wand is traditionally made from” has been working its majic on you and much of the rest of the world for many years. Go ahead and try to get some pro arab prgrammes on any of these networks.
A great irony is that many so called jews are not in fact “real” jews at all, but in order to understand what that means one needs to know jewish history.
Another funny thing about jewish infiltration and control of other countries is that communist russia was jewish led, dont believe me check it out! trotsky, alias david branstein, karl marx, alias mordecai levi whose father was a rabbi, lenin also jewish and last but not least stalin not jewish but married to one. There isnt so much publlicity about it “as one needs access to the media for that” but its estimated that sixty five million non jews were killed. Now come back to the present in both ways, why is bush so supportive of the zionist agenda?
Because he is simply a front man, in fact the whole jewish people may be being used also! Ever heard of the black pope? he is a real Rumpelstiltskin.
names names names..could change my name to goyim but i prefer Tzaddik.
all the best to all
“we are such stuff as dreams are made on and our little life is rounded with a sleep”. W S.
cyclops or black ops.
#75, Crawl back under your rock with your reptilian friends cyclops. I doubt anyone here wants to read that kind of moronic shit.
The idea that people who have spent no time in the fof are reading this blog gives me a sinking feeling like when you go up or down too fast in an elevator. If you’re an outsider, I hope you’ve gotten the idea by now that disengaging from the fof is worse than the worst divorce because you’re divorcing a phantom. You’re divorcing something that you thought was the Road Less Traveled. A path that would lead you to your Self in the midst Watergate, Tiny Tim and Iran Contra. Kinda like divorcing a shipping lane in the middle of the ocean. We all know it’s there but it has no distinct boundaries. Is there any individual story that could tell the tale? Whose? Miles? (I hope you are ok Miles.) RB’s? Elena’s? Collin’s? (Hi Collin!).
So much to fathom. Bless you Sheik for creating this space.
No, unoanimo amor mio, I haven’t seen Whale Rider’s toaster. It may be on a sunken ship at the bottom of one of those shipping lanes.
As to the vitriolic rhetoric coming from the old timers… We can only thank them for validating our worst fears. Although it’s difficult to imagine that we once broke bread together.
Once, circa 1978, I was sitting with Laura Bishop (bless Laura’s memory) in the lobby of the Pierre Hotel in New York. For those of you readers who didn’t know Laura, picture Peter Pan as an incredibly sophisticated young woman with a 130+ IQ wearing a Pucci dress, Gucci shoes and an Hermes purse. Not kidding. Laura had just received a family heirloom from her mother. It was a diamond ring. She was showing it to me there in the lobby of the Pierre…an art deco ring with a big diamond in the middle and lots of smaller ones around it. A profusion of sparkles. I looked at it closely and, unbelievably, there was a chip at the edge of the central diamond. After a few minutes I pointed this out to her. We were both shocked. I felt bad pointing it out but it would have been a lie had I pretended not to see it. We both laughed, she transformed her disappointment and I my inner considering. We went on with our day. What Laura would have said about this blog? It boggles my mind.
Saluti to ALL who have tread this path.
As many others on the blog have already implied…
We leave the fof but we need not say farewell to our Self.
Love,
Shelley
ps.
In Memoriam
Luciano Tommassini 1948-1995
Traveler #69:
Good insights on Mysteries, secrets, secret-keepers and power. I think the allure of mysteries and secrets is that something in us recognizes a Truth: our existence is steeped in a deep Mystery. Distortion: We think the Mystery is something to be solved. Someone claims to have solved it and tries to sell us the solution. With all the lost, hungry souls wandering the planet, “a fine living can be made….”
I’ve been pondering the mainstream popularity of The Secret. It appeals to the rampant consumerism that’s sweeping the globe. That’s the distorted aspect. The more True aspect of the Law of Attraction is expressed in the Hermetic formulation, “As Above, So Below. As Within, So Without.” It’s sad that the film emphasized a materialistic application of this…but then that’s what sells movies. The inner, spiritual meaning is glossed over. What’s the use of gaining the whole world if you lose touch with your soul?
Maybe it’s possible to manifest material abundance on earth through awakening consciousness of our true nature. Could we all live in peace and share this beautiful planet? Or is this a naive dream?
KathleenW #72:
“What if our “work” is to remove layers of cruft that keep us from being aware of the soul/presence we have innately and living our lives with and through that awareness?”
Amen to that! Sacred space is everywhere and the text is your own life.
The Fountain is a visually stunning movie with many layers of meaning about life, death, rebirth, immortality, awe, love and time. Highly Recommended for all you metaphor/myth/magic lovers.
“Life is not a problem to be solved but a Mystery to be lived.”
– Rumi
ah 76 bruce cohen!
take a look out from under your no doubt very highly conscious rock sometime, these people are controlling what you think, thats the anology to the fof.
I wasnt aware that it was only how to be conscious, or that one doesnt have to try or that the fellowship is great, or the fellowship sucks etc that were “allowable”posts”.
When i did peek out from under my rock after many years (my rock was the fellowship of friends) and took a look around it seemed that the totalitarian tiptoe had made enormous progress and the federal government while we were busy contemplating our navels were busy tightening their stranglehold via the military industrial complex.This is the external reptile that bites childrens heads off in Irak and other places, try to research all of the broken young soldiers trying to get asylum in canada because their conscience made them go awol.
And sincerely try to look at cathy obriens story about the mk ultra mind control project, i would genuinely like to hear another opinion about that.
“Then to the rolling heaven itself i cried, asking what lamp had destiny to guide her little children stumbling in the dark? and a blind understanding it replied”. O Khayam.
Hello,
I recently looked at the blog after hearing many things about it. Me and some friends who are members would be very gratefull if some of you who have been here from before can give us references of good posts.
There is so much it is hard to read. If several people gave us their 10 favorite posts that illustrate the main issues best it would help us a lot and many others.
Thank you. It feels like getting bigger, aware of more things, truth that was in the dark coming to light.
Thank you.
Yeah just read all the garbage written by Elena Haven, then think the opposite of all she writes, which is the truth, look at all the pictures of the former students on page 10 (you don’t want to end up like them, do you?) and then finish by reading What Cry Baby said so well, and has never been duplicated on page 2 of the blog, this is a good start. When you are done, your attitude should be well adjusted. Good luck.
Nothing more is needed.
LOL
Hey I like this real time stuff!
No more sheik censoring our writing as before!
LOL
Thanks Joe, I really enjoyed your post #14. I can’t agree more with what you say.
It can be seen that Robert’s mistaken focus on “individual awakening” or “personal immortality” inevitably promotes such things as competition, judgment and comparison between his students. Division breeds division. Despite of all the beautiful talk that there cannot be competition in personal work, all are equal in this and what one gains we all gain – judgment and comparison are going on, more fueled by unnecessary and untrue remarks about “life times” that students are supposedly on… A friend told me once about the overall spirit in Russian centers : ” to over-selfremember others and make sure your efforts are noticed.” I found it to be so funny.
So much tension and suffering occurs because of Robert’s own misunderstanding! Awakening is seen and taught in FOF as some kind of “personal” attainment, something special, rare, that “promotes” a person to a “higher level”… It is so distorted and misleading! There is no person in us to wake up, because ego is not real, it never lived on it’s own! Who is going to wake up? Who is asleep? Without immediately reaching for labels – try to answer this just by honest self-inquiry.
Our true nature -or “higher centers” if you wish – never ever slept, even according to the system. So, whom are we trying to wake up after all? And what are that “we”?
It seems that the teaching appeals to our imaginary identity and strengthens it, gives the imaginary “me” tools for self-promotion instead of sincere questioning of the whole concept of the “me” or “ego”.
Most of us don’t ever question the concept of “me”. And yet this is the most important question to ponder in one’s life : WHO AM I? The ancient advice: “Know thyself”. It’s not about “what shall I do”, and “how shall I do this or that?” but “WHAT AM I?” How often do we actually ask this?
Great news is that the answer, although seems hidden, is always within us, not “over there”, and not owned by this “special enlightened person”. Who we are doesn’t have to be purchased or achieved. It requires honest quiet looking within, in a very simple way, not some time later but now, in the present moment. What we are is right here, always here. And it is not this mental thought story of “me”, not the ideas in the head…
In our true nature we are impersonal nothingness, neutral conscious watching or observing of what is right now. In this alive awareness occur everything else – thoughts, objects, our aging body, feelings, emotions. Mind labels and explains these experiences and makes some intellectual connections depending on our upbringing, education etc. Explanations, events and whatever else occur doesn’t affect the awareness that we essentially are. And this imaginary “me” – it’s a false reference point, empty of substance. It exists in the mind only as a thought, as a story about “you”. You are not this thought! You already exist before any thought ever appear. Awareness is already there before anything, before any effort, before the ego. It is ever-present, alive and radiant, in everything, in every pair of eyes. In our true nature we are totally equal, we all are in essence this conscious cognizing principle. How can there be competition? Between whom and whom? Who is worse or better than another? We all are that presence, and always been – it’s not an individual attainment or achievement, it’s who we all essentially are. Consciousness, manifesting as all these wonderful forms. In recognizing this there is a true joy and end of unnecessary suffering. It’s not serious, it’s light, simple, joyful.
Thanks for reading, sorry for the length and much love to all.
malaec@yahoo.com
Veronicapoe
#461-10 and #465-10
Interesting material about “legacy” of FOF. The same words…
I wonder if Robert even knows these people. James Randazzo and Jim and Carolyn Kuziak
And I am really curious if Alex Horn knows about Robert! What would he say about him if he was asked directly. Does anyone knows Alex’s phone number – I want to call him!
I heard that at first years of FOF people who were Alex Horn’s students at the same time as RB were not allowed to join FOF!
Welcome Newcomer.
For myself it would be a daunting task to come up with 10 favorite posts. Just go back to the beginning and start reading. After awhile, you’ll get a sense of how to move through things more quickly without missing much. It will be worth it, and it doesn’t need to be done in one sitting.
99% of the people here will behave themselves and be nice to you.
LOL: If I remember correctly I never censored a single one of your posts. And yes, I am counting your other personas too.
Free speech is a dirty business but I try to give it free reign. I have been deleting comments before, in the next couple of days you may come to realize what kind of comments I have been deleting (I won’t delere anything for a short trial period) and for what reason. Yes, there are some disturbed/disturbing characters among us.
I am going to keep things running as they are now for a while, then I would like to hear from all of you how you would like the blog to be run. Let’s try to run this bitch together.
One more thing, While writing comments always fill in the Name and E-mail address fields or your comment will not be processed.
I would also like to warn some of you that taking the piss and being uncivil will get you barred. It’s not an ego trip, it’s not a desperate struggle to keep the discussion one-sided, it is in fact a necessity. Enjoy.
Dear Newcomer (80) and friends,
You’ll find hundreds of good ones, but here you go:
http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2006/04/16/fellowship-of-friends-a-cult-for-intellectuals/#comment-1649
http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2006/04/16/fellowship-of-friends-a-cult-for-intellectuals/#comment-2467
http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2006/04/16/fellowship-of-friends-a-cult-for-intellectuals/#comment-2560
http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/03/01/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-2/#comment-2576
http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/03/01/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-2/#comment-2714
An old letter from Miles: http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-3/#comment-4166
http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-3/#comment-4509
http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-3/#comment-4058
http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-3/#comment-4065
http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-3/#comment-4136
http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-3/#comment-4597
WhaleRider:
http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/04/28/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-8/#comment-9598
Response to WhaleRider:
http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/04/28/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-8/#comment-9659
http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/04/28/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-8/#comment-9654
http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/04/28/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-8/#comment-9786
http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/04/20/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-7/#comment-7765
http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/04/20/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-7/#comment-8110
http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/04/20/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-7/#comment-7677
Also, do a search for “Bruce” on each page. He offers a steady diet of zingers.
To 82 Newcomer
“Me and some friends who are members would be very gratefull if some of you who have been here from before can give us references of good posts.”
Is this a genuine question? I am afraid you will have to find out for yourselves what’s “good” and what’s not, unless you want to ask someone to speed read the blog to extract a few good quotes. I enjoyed personal stories the most.
Oh, and by the way, if you come accross a broken toaster, give it to Shelley, she would like to be the one to bring it to unoanimo.
for #86 -> http://www.esotericfreedom.com/Properties.html
To Newcomer (#11-82): LOL referred to Cry Baby’s post, which was #2-206. In my opinion, this person is a good representative of the FOF “attack dogs”. An LOL by any other name is still an LOL. For more moderate representations of the FOF point of view, do a search for the name Siddiq. Unfortunately, there is no way I know of for a universal search; you’ll have to do a search within each section. For moderate views that question the FOF, I’d recommend folks like Joe Average, above. For great, almost poetical writing, do a search for Unianimo. Of course, I like to think that I have been using the powers of reason granted to me in my posts…
Good luck!
With love,
Ames Gilbert
To Newcomer,
If you go to the sketchbook of the Fellowship of Friends you’ll find a selection of about a hundred. That’s just a small selection so far of what is worth reading.
In fact if you find other things worth reading and post them there it would be very useful.
Stoned Leprechauns: That is truly remarkable.
Perhaps one last thought. If we truly are asleep then becoming awake is not simply a spiritual exercise. The Fellowship of Friends believes that the way to awaken is to acquire a permanent higher state in which sleep doesn’t exist. It remains to be verified whether such a permanent state exists and more importantly whether such a state truly does not contain any fragments of sleep/conditioning/prior programming. It’s a pretty big assumption.
Other schools of thought believe that it is much more fruitful to realize how exactly one is conditioned/asleep so that one can start consciously changing oneself. This would be based solely on practice. While transcending the state of sleep temporarily may be fun, it does not grant any long-term benefits apart from those that we either choose to adopt (through being conscious of the process, already being awake), or those that we adopt unconsciously, ie. by allowing ourselves to be conditioned/programmed – not actually awaking from the state of sleep.
One thing I despise the most is the ‘Work language’, it’s so limiting and makes us all look rather dumb.
C here:
http://www.youtube.com/v/0ErtyC3NqHw
Never without you.
Love,
A Hundred Thousand Angels
In memoriam:
Diane Foehringer 199? Vienna Center codirector
Diana Foehringer = Diana Bolton
“The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.”
- Albert Einstein
I was just surfing around on http://www.esotericfreedom.com (from Stoned Leprechauns in #90) and found the above quote. In case it’s not obvious to others, the site contains a lot of commentary on Robert Burton, the Fellowship of Friends, Alex Horn, and other related topics. Thanks for posting, S.L.
Re:#90 Stoned Leprechauns
This is amazing. I am deeply touched and shaken by the beauty, truth and sincerity of the former members of Sharon Gans and Alex Horn. I hope everyone reading this blog will visit the website posted on #90 and that somehow every current member of the FOF could also be informed about this. The parallels are unbelievable.
Westbury Hotel, Manhattan
These were some amazing times. We used to drive up from Philadelphia to spend a few hours in the big city. Joel, who I came to know a little and Sandra, such an enigma to me, being a new student, felt like close friends I had yet to meet. We were all right on the edge of something totally beyond our comprehension. Once, before a meeting in Manhattan, we arrived at the 87th street townhouse, maybe it was my first visit, I was cautiously walking around the place. Somebody introduced me to Miles. I was very surprised to see him leading the meeting a few hours later. These were the highest moments of my life to date.
I write here now, from Oregon House, where I ‘ve been for the past 7 years. The beauty of the place surprises me. I’m not far from the General Store, I see the patrons pulling in and out. Locals going about their lives. The 2002 Ramey-Schulten port is working its magic.
My wife is at Apollo D’oro having dinner. There was a meeting at the Galleria. I wonder who went, what was said, and realize nothing beats this fading twilight visible through the dual-pane windows of this 1971 mobile home.
I’m so glad to know you are out there.
In re: The Departed
One to add to the list is the delightful Mitchell Muth. He was a a joyous and generous person who comforted me greatly after my first departure from the FoF in September, 1982.
Two I was surprised to see mentioned:
1) Christopher Billings. My main connection to Christopher was when he was center director in Munich in the mid-80’s. I was in Frankfurt at roughly the same time. But I often travelled to Munich and stayed with him and his wonderful wife Maria. I liked going to the Bavarian State Opera.
2) Katy Kudo. I lived with Katy for more than a year at the Baker Street house in San Francisco in the early 80’s. She went by the handle of Katherine Rose then. I nicknamed her ‘La Rosa’. We played at being Italianate at that house. Mainly this derived from Anthony Scelfo’s ethnicity and his great love of Italian Opera. But Jan Allen was the presiding genius of the house. We loved welcoming other students to the house for dinner or after-meeting coffee.
These two were both slightly older than I. Yet, they died young if they are already gone.
I’d love to hear more about either. Post here or send comments directly to:
demimoand at yahoo dot com.
(As an example of my other points I’ve been trying to post this comment intermittently for several hours now.)
Cyclops,
Your comments about Jews and Gays seem pretty incidental to the main stream of this blog. Might you, like LOL, have an idée fixe? I am familiar with this particular obsession, my own brother being one who never passes up an opportunity, natural or contrived, to rant about how, on the right hand, the Neocons and their puppet GWB have sold out the country to Israel and the international Jewish cabal and, on the left hand, how the Jewish intelligentsia from Marx on down the line (Georg Lukacs, the members of the Frankfurt School, Herbert Marcuse, et al.) have carefully planted and nurtured their Marxist ideological/political agenda in our schools and other social institutions in the form of cultural Marxism/political correctness. In short, the Jews run the world, according to my brother, and the rest of us (Gentiles) are just food for their moon. After his rants, I usually ask, well, if that is so, what can be inferred from that? Are Jews just more talented, intelligent, energetic, and wiser than the rest of us? Might they be, after all, God’s chosen people, as mentioned in the Old Testament? He doesn’t care for that possible explanation. (Do you?)
A sad commentary on our times (and probably all times) is the almost universal tendency to categorize people into groups based on race, gender, ethnicity, religion, nationality, political party, socioeconomic class, degree of physical attractiveness, chronological age, ad nauseam, and then to pit one group against another, or one against all others. One group becomes the victimizer and the other, the victim. My group is right—yours is wrong, and I direct my sanctimonious negativity toward you (or vice-versa, in which case, I feel guilty/wrong). We have the One True School group and the “life people” group. We have the FOFers and the ex-FOFers. It seems as if we humans have arrived at some crisis point of separation/opposition psychosocially and that, if things proceed in this imbalanced direction, we will fragment into chaos. Or maybe some third force will enter at the breaking point and forge a new unity. Like your quotes, by the way, Cy.
URGENT MESSAGE for Unianimo:
Since you have not provided me with any satisfactory answers regarding the fate of my missing toaster, I resolved to take matters into my own hands. I have lately been missing my warm daily toast with my morning tea. So I pulled out and read the toaster manual (admittedly for the first time).
To my astonishment, I found out that my particular model of new and improved trusty crusty toaster had embedded in it a ‘smart chip’, probably not unlike your Russian artist friend has, although for obviously different reasons. My toaster did not have a drinking problem. There was printed on the same page both a serial number and, in case of dematerialization, a phone number to call.
Well, today I finally got up the nerve to make the call. The person at the other end of the line identified himself as Tao Chi Gung, english speaking representative of the Mitsudeeply Manufacturing Company of Shanghai, China. I explained to him about the mysterious disappearance of my trusty crusty toaster and gave him the serial number. I was promptly put on hold.
For what seemed like eons later, he came back on, rustled some papers, and then put me back on hold. I was becoming impatient by now and in danger of losing all the hydrogen 12 that I had stored up from the day before, when finally he came back on the line.
To my absolute shock, he informed me that the toaster was there sitting on his desk right in front of him. “In China? How could that beeee?” I asked. He asked me if I believed in a higher power. So I told him that sure, I believed in the Absolute as All and Everything in World 1 and the Ray of Creation, and the fact that mostly everyone on the planet, including the one supposed conscious being I once knew, are all pretty much completely hypnotized by sex, power, money or all of the above, and that if there was a higher power it has to come from within us. To which he replied, “That’s nice, dear.” The toaster had a message for me. “What????” I said. He graciously repeated himself for my disbelieving ears to hear again. The toaster was displaying a message, a flashing message on its little digital number screen that normally just displayed toasting time.
Apparently, some toaster ‘smart chips’ had gotten mixed up at the silicon chip plant with a few similar-looking other chips containing a mysterious sequence of Artificial Intelligence code. And to my disbelief, he stated that some toasters have been reported as achieving conscious enlightenment in one toaster lifetime and have been disappearing and appearing all around the globe. Not bad for a machine, I thought to myself. Two attributes of conscious enlightenment are the abilities of dematerialization and teleportation and that’s how my toaster got there, he explained. They are able to navigate through portals in higher dimensions of time and space.
“So what’s the message???” I asked. He said he didn’t quite understand it so he would fax it to me. I gave him my fax number and nervously awaited his fax, unsure if my fax machine had a ’smart chip’ embedded in it, too.
Finally the fax came. Please excuse the all caps, but this is what it said:
TAKE ME APART PUT ME BACK TAKE ME APART PUT ME BACK TAKE ME APART PUT ME BACK TAKE ME APART PUT ME BACK TAKE ME APART PUT ME BACK TAKE ME APART PUT ME BACK TAKE ME APART PUT ME BACK TAKE ME APART PUT ME BACK
I had to think about it. Was my toaster, having completed its role and now an enlightened being with amazing powers simply wanting to be disassembled, melted back down into its original elements, and placed back into the Earth from whence it came? Didn’t it want to go to the sun instead? And what about my toast?
“Do Something. If it works, do more of it. If it doesn’t, do something else.” Franklin D. Roosevelt
However:
“It is easy to sit up and take notice, What is difficult is getting up and taking action.” Al Batt
Re: Gateway Timeouts
Sorry for all the fuss. Finally figured out that it had to do with my proxy settings.
In Memoriam
Giorgio Massini 1997? Milàn Center
In Memoriam
Herb Burstein (Phillip Kingsley) 1997
Philadelphia Center
Alleluhia!
Many seemingly dead False Personalities resurrexit thanks to this blog!
Alleluhia!
GLORIA
Dear All,
About predictions: The day that “the 6 students”, were released in November on a Tuesday…”That was the day that California or The world would fall in the Ocean”. This was said by Robert Burton of the fellowship of friends in Egypt and was heard by Mrs T who was on the trip with him. So he seems to still “predict” for the fellowship of friends in a smaller circle but if you read the above details, it seems not to be taken to serious..6 people leaving the fellowship of friends, or the fall of California or the world…?
Robert’s tendencies do not disappear obviously.
Last year, around his birthday there was a gossip: Robert had given 100 people a blow job on that day. I thought this was not possible and discarded the idea. This year the same story appears, with a slight variation he did not reach the 100….? Can anybody give us more confirmation about this issue or is it only “gossip”? People who were part of it, or were called to come and join the 15 minute line?
Thanks to all of you.
Sheik, finally one post to consider: it seems that something moved inside your being.
“If we truly are asleep then becoming awake is not simply a spiritual exercise.”
It si truly fundamental to recognize what sleep is and to find ways to stay in the state of awakening. No Person (of course) is always awake to his own many ‘thoughts’ or ‘I’s whatever we want to call them. To be awake, present to them is to add at least one more dimension to our present state.
“The Fellowship of Friends believes that the way to awaken is to acquire a permanent higher state in which sleep doesn’t exist. It remains to be verified whether such a permanent state exists and more importantly whether such a state truly does not contain any fragments of sleep/conditioning/prior programming. It’s a pretty big assumption.”
Sheik, You are assuming that the FOF believe something that you may be don’t understand; however in this post you got closer.
The Third State (the state in which WE are awake to the casualities or intentionalities of our inner world) is ADDED to the second state (which is ’sleep’, in which the laws of causes and effect and accident take place at random in our inner world), and of course there are many degrees of this alchemy.
For example: when observing yourself you can observe some kind of very hidden conditioning/prior programming coming from people that were acting around you when you were a child: and that is not You; when more awake you can have more relativity about what ‘your-machine-that-has-been-programmed-from-the-very-beginning-of-its-lifetime-by-external-circumstances’ actually is.
To be permanently awake is to see every single thought (‘I’) for what it is. The ‘I’s will always be with us but when we are present to them (awake) there is another dimension present beyond the grey matter. The fragments of ’sleep’ are always here but you are what observe them.
This is the principle of what the School and esoteric work is all about, and the verifiaction of this (and till now I have verified that is not for all three-brained beings), without any ‘pretty big assumption’.
“Other schools of thought believe that it is much more fruitful to realize how exactly one is conditioned/asleep so that one can start consciously changing oneself.”
Sheik, this is the starting point of the FOURTH WAY as we know it.
“This would be based solely on practice.”
Sheik, this is the School work from the very, very beginning: hard work then.
“While transcending the state of sleep temporarily may be fun, it does not grant any long-term benefits apart from those that we either choose to adopt (through being conscious of the process, already being awake), or those that we adopt unconsciously, ie. by allowing ourselves to be conditioned/programmed – not actually awaking from the state of sleep.”
Sheik, ‘transcending the state of sleep temporarily’ is simply called ‘relative awakening’ and you are pretty right about all the rest that you say. That’s why real School work is about complete awakening, a very difficul task. Of course no person get it by himself with no effort all the time.
“One thing I despise the most is the ‘Work language’, it’s so limiting and makes us all look rather dumb.”
It is fine to place one’s own mind above the minds of Gurdjieff, Ouspensky and Collin and whatever force was beyond them.
Of course I understand you prefer the ‘Blog language’: so vaste (w?)! That’s why you seem to stay with the Inner Confusion…. but it may change.
sincerely respectful after this post of ‘you’.
BOlg
GOlb: Thanks for the lengthy reply. I am afraid though that ‘nothing has moved in my being’, my being seems to be pretty imovable no matter how much I try.
Of course, I do hope to earn more of your respect with time.
As to ‘Work language’ – as far as I know the language that is being used by the FoF is Ouspensky’s, not Gurdjieff’s. ‘Work language’ is limiting because it doesn’t allow for other definitions, for thinking outside of the box. It promotes stagnation and rigid thinking.
And of course, there is no ‘blog language’ – there are no kings of clubs, lower selfs, machines and stewards.
I am at it again, damn.
Getting out the FOF was a process of choosing life over death.
Literally.
It is very hard for me to even begin to talk about it.
Someday I will tell my story!
But if you are still there in the School ask yourself if you are truly happy. If you find that you have not been happy for quite a long time then is time to watch out. Perhaps your soul you were trying to grow is actually dying.
The “work” promotes very puritanical feelings on the subject of being happy and even healthy. This create such an inner division, in trying to go beyond our humanness, all that is concerned with the: body: is the evil instinctive center right?
Be careful, because the split begins here, and maybe illness begins.
“And of course, there is no ‘blog language’ – there are no kings of clubs, lower selfs, machines and stewards.
I am at it again, damn.”
…got you, hein? ;-) this is the first demonstration of the stymulus response machine we found ourSelf in: it also contains the attentively emotional seed of resisting itself for the sake of higher purposes (labeled steward), a kind of defensive reptilian attention device (labeled KoC) in a pretty reptilian, mammalian, dual grey mattery mess of imaginations and identifications(labeled Lower Self).
That’s it for now. – Sorry all about the length of the previous post, wow, so easy to be lengthy: now I understand why so many…..
Sympathetically,
Inner Order Golb
To GOlb (#11-34)
Most of your post is sheer imagination of the wrong kind, and a great demonstration of sleep while talking about being awake, or trying to give the impression thereof. Every affirmation you make for Burton is a lie, pure and simple. You have no idea why he made the predictions. All you can say, truthfully, is that he made them. You yourself may have used them (as I understand you to say—your meaning is rather unclear), that is, to provide personal friction, a sense of urgency. It is possible that Burton may have even meant this for the students generally. But, you cannot know, so you are lying. It sounds to me like you are repeating some meme that has sprung up among the faithful to justify Burton’s failures, because sentences like “It is the largest scale that demonstrates the value of things and the largest scale can be seen only from the present moment” are meaningless even after allowing for your poor language skills. The semantic content adds up to zero. You are also lying when you make another affirmation for Burton, “He didn’t care about the high possibility of the (repeated) failure.” First of all, there was no mention of the “high possibility” of failure when he made his predictions. You have added that yourself, based on your excellent hindsight. Secondly, you lie when you claim he didn’t care. You cannot know.
Moving on. You didn’t answer the question, “What has ‘HE’ gained from repeated failing predictions in the long run?” The answer is, on the surface, “nothing”. That is the one you are fishing for. But I think there is a more subtle answer. Burton used the prediction to reinforce his image as a higher being/god, because prophecy (windows into the future) is one of the attributes or powers he thinks a higher being should have. Then he invited his followers to enter that fantasy with him. This was a step–by–step process, incremental. The objective was to gain power over his followers, because if they suspend their own judgment and ability to discriminate in favor of his version of reality, they become more dependent on him. A personal example: in 1993, Burton came up to me, pointed at his forehead and said, “Dear, do you see an eye here, looking out at you?”. I replied, “Do you mean literally, a third physical eye where your pineal gland is?”. He said, “Yes, I am looking out at you through a third eye, the eye of an angel. Do you see it?”. I asked again, “Do you mean literally a third eye, physically the same as your other eyes?”. He said, “Yes”. I replied, “No, Robert, I don’t see a literal third eye, all I can see is your forehead.” He said, “Well, I am an angel, there is a third eye looking out at you. Are you sure you can’t see it?”. I said, “I’m sorry, Robert, I don’t see it”. Then he turned away.
I saw this as a clear invitation to enter his fantasy. It’s only a guess, but I’d say that many students would have gone with him into his fantasy, and said that they did see a literal third eye. I say this, because I watched others do exactly that on many occasions, either by actively accepting his invitation, or by silently acquiescing or not protesting; this happened very often at dinners, as he described his fantasies out loud in his monologues. Depending on the subject, the fantasy evoked either fear or infatuation, (either will send followers to sleep, but both are inimical to awakening and individuation).
When the predictions fail, a student has at least two types of choices. They can follow Burton deeper into the fantasy (C-Influence has used this to humiliate me), make affirmations for him, like Golb and others in this blog, which just deepen the hypnosis, or buffer it completely, maybe with self-calming phrases like, “I’ll just record this as a theory”. Another set of choices might include re-evaluating the whole sorry mess, recognizing the weaknesses that led one to accept the fantasy, and backing out.
So, to answer your final question, Golb, “Who has gained anything from them?”, I answer, “Robert Burton”. He has you fast, you think you are more real because you have adopted his fantasies, you are a good little follower who is blessed, you have a great collection of affirmations you trot out to help keep your fellows asleep on his behalf, and sayings for every occasion. He has your money and your adoration. He may even have the use of your body, for all I know. Multiply by 1900 or so. Sweet deal. For once, you’re certainly right, Burton is not a ‘stupid’—on that level.
To various historical revisionists and Defenders of the Faith…
Since you so appreciate the apt quote, and are quite willing to use the sayings of past wise persons (conveniently dead, so they can’t protest or correct you) to bolster your position, here’s one from Lao Tzu for your edification. “Those who have knowledge, don’t predict. Those who predict, don’t have knowledge.”
With love to you, and everyone ‘on the blog’,
Ames
I have to admit I am a great admirer of the movie ‘the Secret’, for the very reason it has become so popular and gives everyone, not just a select few, the ideas of the law of attraction. Yes, I agree that it emphasizes acquiring wealth and more ’stuff’, but it also explains in a very simple form so that everyone can understand the law of attraction and the basics of quantum physics.
What a gift for mankind that even the simplest of people can understand how we are responsible for what we create on this planet. And I think because this movie has become mainstream many more than just a select few people will begin to create what is needed for the planet to heal. I for one do not think it is any accident that this film is now well known to many. We need all the help we can to start creating a healthier planet and I feel the Secret becoming mainstream will and is helping many people that would never even have considered these ideas before watching it.
Anyone interested in exploring the Law of Attraction in more depth, watch the Secret behind the Secret by Esther and Jerry Hicks.
Re: 2b,
10/515,
“Howard:
Chopsticks did not ask you: “Why are there many different schools throughout history?”
Nowhere in your answer do you address the connection between Self Remembering and cave drawings. But I can understand why you’d evade that one. Very difficult question to answer, isn’t it?”
2b, Sometimes an answer is expressed in what is stated; and sometimes it can be expressed equally well by what is implied, though not actually stated. The latter approach can be missed if the reader is fixed on a certain kind of response.
Re-reading my post (#10/390) I feel that Chopstick’s question regarding cave drawings was addressed. Nevertheless, here are a few quotes from RB that will shed some light on the issue:
“The prehistoric tradition is the backbone of the esoteric.”
“Schools are indifferent to the form of the message, which is why we are able to understand the prehistoric.”
“A student asked why we are studying the prehistoric school, and I said that it is consistent with what we are doing – gathering the teachings of the schools before us.”
“Getting out the FOF was a process of choosing life over death.
Literally.
It is very hard for me to even begin to talk about it.
Someday I will tell my story!
But if you are still there in the School ask yourself if you are truly happy. If you find that you have not been happy for quite a long time then is time to watch out. Perhaps your soul you were trying to grow is actually dying.
The “work” promotes very puritanical feelings on the subject of being happy and even healthy. This create such an inner division, in trying to go beyond our humanness, all that is concerned with the: body: is the evil instinctive center right?
Be careful, because the split begins here, and maybe illness begins.”
Wow, this lady got everything upside down: no wonder she got out!
LOL, please tell her something – politely this time – Thanks.
Accumulation of Virtues
Whalerider #102: I loved your post! Made me laugh very hard.
GOlb: You have misunderstood me for pehaps the fifth time (including your previous response to my previous comment). When writing ‘I am at it again, damn!’ I was refering to my numerous prior decisions to stay out of the discussion. My mouth and my nimble fingers get me in trouble all the time.
Dear Gloria,
I looked in my old directory, who are you Gloria?
Why this use of language…read it again….so much judgment? Or Am I not understanding you correctly?
Many things are better left unsaid. You are hurting yourself more then any other person.
This physical life is difficult enough, help and support in these times of “walls coming down” would be so appreciated.
To my understanding there is a need of friends, a social network, helpful to each other through this time.
Have you too much hurt inside of yourself…unresolved.
Love to all of you.
FOF’s Daily Card for Thursday, June 7, 2007:
In Exodus God says to Moses, “I am that I am.” I am present, I am eternally present. Through the sequence you become what you are. Love,…
COMMENT:
Yes, eternally present. That means now; eternally now. And impersonal. Very well put by God to Mr. Moses.
How can you become what you already are? How can the mind through some gymnastics become what is the source of the mind? Maybe donations? Shame on you Mr. R. for such a confusing message you constantly and consistently share in your kindergarten.
To Rogue Pixel (101) and Cyclops,
Both your posts were of much interest to me. While I enjoy Pixel’s photography of not focusing in on specific genders I would also ask you if we do not need to do this to pinpoint aspects of the problem, as Cyclops is doing. Not to do it, is like giving a photograph without telling the person who you’re photographing.
We do come from different programming, nations, social backgrounds and they all have different qualities and disadvantages. Pinpointing any one of them is trying to expose something that has fallen from the ideal to the factual, and those exposed feel attacked. Something breaks off and a different awareness comes in.
You say, “It seems as if we humans have arrived at some crisis point of separation/opposition psychosocially and that, if things proceed in this imbalanced direction, we will fragment into chaos. Or maybe some third force will enter at the breaking point and forge a new unity.”
This “separation/opposition psychosocially” seems to be necessary to trim off the inhuman and consolidate the human and that the third force is the “divine human” that “will enter at the breaking point and forge a new unity.”
From one angle, to me you are describing the process of second line that did not take place in the fellowship, which would have allowed us to deeply question and observed each other’s mechanics and work through them. Instead Robert imposed a form in which we simply behaved as if we had already acquired consciousness without going through the process. The value of that is not small because we got a very good view of what it is to let each other be.
Isn’t it amazing that nothing really is lost? By imposing on us that we let him be, he still taught us to let each other be but by not allowing the process to happen as a group, it pushed the individual progress that we all acknowledge but not enough consciousness to develop a community with true human values.
The question then is, do we pretend we already are without the process of becoming or do we go through the necessary sculpting of each other’s being and become?
Those that pretend they already ARE, think they can live the process of awakening on their own and hold to individualistic patterns. They, like Robert, think they do not need to work with others, be questioned or balanced. They would do well in a fakir path that would bring out of them the necessary will to awaken. On the other hand, those that understand that they need the presence of others for their own sculpting are willing to submit to other’s trimming and then allow the thorough look at every single one of their functions: sex, instincts, movements, emotions, thoughts, which are the screws that need tightening to balance the being within. They are willing to acknowledge that the external world is a sculpting force of their inner being. If the social standards are high enough, the individual human being develops his consciousness. If the individual is conscious enough, his social behavior keeps and supports high social standards. The center and the periphery balance each other through friction, pulling each other’s strings.
It seems that the feminine dominance used in the Fellowship of Friends to avoid questioning each other is the same lack of feminine dominance that we could use to “look” at each other without questioning each other. Looking without judgement but with discrimination. As long as we could hold the divine at the other end of the inhuman, we would be able to tune the inhuman into the human. But we’ll never come even close if we continue to treat the inhuman as if it were human, which is what the Fellowship pretends to do when it condones Robert’s abuse of young men and still holds him as a conscious being.
The way a man makes love is no different to the way he moves in traffic. It is no wonder that Robert cannot talk to any one student when he also cannot make love. Having sex and not acknowledging anyone, are on equal ground.
To the Sheik,
Please forgive the continued use of work language and fellowship language. If there’s anything you would like to have cleared, I’d be happy to make it more accessible but there are things that have been understood after years of practicing them that would require my posts to be four or six pages long, if I were to try to explain them in regular language.
I will nevertheless continue to try to stay short.
Thank you Vera.mente for your post and whalerider for your fine humor. Demi Moaned for your history on students and Sam 1 for sharing your state.
To Ames and Gold and all of us,
I have read your posts about predictions with interest. From my perspective I have seen Robert being 100% sincere in his predictions, he made them because he had no choice–this is how he really saw things. (the predictions play no longer the role they did, and that is fine–I agree with Vena, on the Wiki this should not be “rewritten” –I am sure it can and will be corrected in due course).
I can see Golb’s description as a 100% sincere description of how a student may work with this area. And Ames is 100% sincere, I have zero doubt, when he writes how he sees it and how some experiences were received.
Standing “behind” (not beyond) Robert and looking through his eyes as well as my own, throughout the prediction times, there is no contradiction for me any longer, just different parts of my being looking, or trying to. and who is not glad that these events did not take place?
From one point of view, it matters little whether you act from your highest level of understanding or from “instruction of Influence C” because ultimately they are one and the same.
As long as we do our best in whatever path we choose, we must ascend.
So what has Robert gained? A great deal in my view, the School would not be what it is, if he had not gone through this phase (and he went whole heartedly throughout the process)–it takes living in a new way to understand why our plays are necessary at all. It may sound circular, but if we did not have to go through what we have gone through there would not be a need at all to live. Some of the external “gathering and preparing” has become an internal effort.
My very best to All,
Siddiq
To Happines,
This lady got out because of people like you who present a smile from ear to ear and then do nothing but criticize and look hard on others that are not playing at your dogmatic idolatry and then ask other’s to put her down even more than you.
Your work on negative emotions is about as high as your level of presence.
To Bruce, post 78
“#75, Crawl back under your rock with your reptilian friends cyclops. I doubt anyone here wants to read that kind of moronic shit.”
That is simply not gracious formulation!
What disturbed you so badly ?
Your opinion, as valid as any, could only interest me and others.
But such a judgment?
I doubt anyone here wants to read that kind of… judgment.
For myself, I keep the evidence (Et Vie Danse)
of “sculpting light” as a necessity.
Gratitude.
10/418:
Howard Carter said:
It’s fine that the FoF is labeled a cult by people who share your sentiment about it, regardless that it fails any number of “litmus tests” for cults.
You sound like you’ve actually researched this, which I doubt. Please say how the FoF is not a cult, I’d love to hear it.
. . .
Howard, I’m still waiting for your response.
JoelF
123 “Siddiq”
From one point of view, it matters little whether you act from your highest level of understanding or from “instruction of Influence C” because ultimately they are one and the same.
Here, in a nutshell, is the most profound error one can make, and that many have made, including myself in past years.
I’m going to have a little “moment of silence” here at my desk for “Siddiq,” whoever it is, because he has (hopefully temporarily) lost the thread of connection to his inner truth, and handed it over to Burton.
JoelF
I like the new format, thank you Sheik for providing this.
#14 Joe Average
Beautifully articulated post, cuts to the core regarding both weaknesses and strengths of the FOF, illuminates the tragic/comic situation of insistence on retaining the imaginary concept of eternally persistent individuality, while the actual practices keep lifting the veils. Very moving. Thanks!
From the wonderful curmudgeonly H.L. Mencken:
Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.
It’s called anti-semitism, j.o.
Fellow Travelers,
If it is true that Fellowship officials are trying to re-cast Robert’s failed prophecies as somehow metaphorical, then they are truly the hypocritical cronies some make them out to be.
I was living at Apollo Spring-Summer 1998 when California was to fall into the Sea. Most students who could stored up food, installed water tanks, bought generators…the guy I lived with even got a hydraulic jack in case his house (on a hill) collapsed! I personally knew one individual who nearly bankrupted his family with his “preparations.” Luckily his wife had a good job.
Students in Sacramento, San Francisco and Los Angeles got “out of town” for a particular two-week period–I don’t recall the exact dates–that Robert said were the most likely times. At the company where I worked (in Oregon House), sales trips were also cancelled at this time.
It was a level of madness, but hey, there are earthquakes in California and it never hurts to have some food stored away. So I contributed to the house food fund, but the only other “preparation” I made was to buy a nice combo mountain-touring bike.
When it didn’t happen Robert was just confused as to why C influence would trick him in this manner. The most sophisticated Fellowship theologians (I consider myself in the category) said it was obviously some divinely given “suffering” for Robert’s higher centers to transform.
So no more talk that anything was taken metaphorical. Maybe privately by certain folks, but everyone’s public face was making “preparations.”
walter.tanner@gmail.com
PS: There are different “generations” within the Fellowship. Of all those people in the memorial weekend photos, I only know one. As I learned when I was a student myself in the 90’s, the 70’s and 80’s were a lot more uptight and “cultish,” and Robert’s exploits a bit more creative (There used to be “Symposiums,” I understand, with ridiculous amounts of wine. Sorry to have missed that.)
I came in as the homosexuality exercise was lifted, and I left after all traces of any sex exercise were lifted. (I traveled to Paris, Nice, Italy and Slovenia and was able to announce the lifting of the sex exercise in my role as “traveling teacher.” Didn’t get laid, though)
So what I’m basically saying is that by my time things were a lot groovier, there was no “hell” language, the Fellowship had kind-of grown up. A lot of the hostility, which may be absolutely legitimate, does come from the “first” generations of the Fellowship, and I think to identify to closely with their arguments will blind one to the fact the Fellowship has changed in the past and could absolutely do so in the future.
In Memoriam:
Giorgio Massini
Roberto Piccoli
Marco Colombo
Milan Center
Guys, we have a saying in Russian : “Don’t spit in the water well because one day you might need a drink from it.”
I would suggest to current members who tend to “spit” at ex-members: one day you just may become an ex-member too, so please don’t judge ex-members from your current “conscious” pedestal.
I know each of us thought that we’ll never, ever leave our beloved precious school. I sincerely thought so too, and I can bet that many ex-students thought so while being students. But life does to us what it does, it moves us in ways we can’t forsee. One day for whatever reason you just may find yourself out of school, slightly surprised or embarrased or heartbroken.
And often you’ll discover that current members will coldly “dump” you, and cancel the friendship of many years just because you’ve left the organization they belong to.
And you may humbly discover that it’s ex-members who will actually accept and support you, because we understand, we feel, we all have been through it. We will not even hold the grudge against you. The same exact people you are now calling loosers, idiots, false personalities, asleep victims, old wrinkled hippies, swine etc etc.
Please be kind, be nice, and don’t spit in a water well. Because you never know. ;)
the Esoteric Sheik of Inner Confusion says: #111/11
>As to ‘Work language’ – as far as I know the language that is being used by the FoF is Ouspensky’s, not Gurdjieff’s. ‘Work language’ is limiting because it doesn’t allow for other definitions, for thinking outside of the box. It promotes stagnation and rigid thinking.
G. I. Gurdjieff:
“People do not notice all these contradictions, do not notice that they never understand one another, that they always speak about different things. It is quite clear that, for proper study, for an exact exchange of thoughts, an exact language is necessary, which would make it possible to establish what a man actually means, would include an indication of the point of view from which a given concept is taken and determine the center of gravity of this concept.
>And of course, there is no ‘blog language’ – there are no kings of clubs…
There is a will in the machine that can still all the distractions, it can cut through all the chattering buffers and see the intent of the law of accident as it hunts men along the streets like the passing drifts of a calamity-infuse fog. There is a will in the machine that can silence all the glad sentimentality and peer through the wilderness of time looking for that potential moment when the attention lapses and disaster takes over. Fools laugh, it can’t be done they assure one another, and anyway it is against our religion to stretch the eyes into the darkness of the oncoming unknown. Those unpracticed in the art of hearing the distance, in feeling the echoes, unpracticed in seeing the minds of men opened across the miles, always fear those with these piercing eyes, this look of cold calculation. Then they warm themselves with their cheerful prayers and tell one another tales about how the evil-lookers will all perish in Hell. Their pathetic superstitions make them even more vulnerable to the x-ray gaze of the astute pinholes that see the reddened radiation of hostility wafting off the tops of malicious minds. But it isn’t logical, speaks the thinker to the confused crowd gathered to hear reassuring lectures against ancient witchdoctor tactics. The villagers are frightened by the darkness of the unknown while the loner thrives on that unlimited cloak of the night. The villagers peer from their fires into the shadows and say to themselves, there’s nothing there, nothing there, but the loner always understands that there is something there, hidden, unseen, waiting. There is a mind in the machine that can know the direction of events, events that bring sudden shocks, before they ever happen. There is a will in the machine that can touch the weakened organs of a man’s enemies and tilt the scales of illness against them, there is a will that can wish misfortune on distant intruders and bring them disaster. Just as it can curse it can protect, just as it can project disease it can heal. There is a will in the machine that reads the angry intentions of others as their secret conversations radio through the surroundings and catches their plans before they even hatch them. There is a witchdoctor’s mind in the machine, a healer if need be, a defender through clairvoyance and killer through the projection of aggressive vibrations. This power of magnetic sight never belongs to the greedy, to the overpowering, to the malicious, to the egomaniacs, all these perversions supercede this ability with leaden logic, with identification. The ancient magnetic sight ignores logic and only functions without identification. Those with the receptivity of the intellectual story of the instinctive center always walk down the streets of this world alone, unsocialized, and invisible to the average laws of most men.
The intellectual story of the instinctive center is that intelligence within man that nature developed so that he might survive the wild over that period of time before civilization and the subsequent invention of Christian benevolence. A primitive points his face into the wind and senses the oncoming storm yet a hundred miles distant. A primitive walks across heated sand, suddenly points at a shrub and within a few feet of the surface there is water. A primitive gazes out over the rolling ripples of a stream, watches the pattern of moving water seemingly random and chaotic over the gleaming surface and somehow knows where the fish are hiding. The primitives gather with the tribesmen in the predawn to set out on a hunting party, suddenly a feeling comes over one of them, he councils that today is not a good day to hunt. His tribesmen deride him, they challenge his courage, still he will not go with them and none of them ever return to camp. The intellectual story of the instinctive center can somehow detect the magnetic waves that are a precursor to danger. Many animals have this ability, often before severe weather, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, flash floods, any number of possible calamities, the birds and other animals will somehow be gone, the woods suddenly silent the day before. The intellectual story of the instinctive center calculates for denying force in the aim to survive. The intellectual story of the instinctive center stores resources for times of less fortune, it envisions advanced and effective weapons that will prove a superior element when enemies inevitably attack. This function discovers natural, chemical and technological cures for all injuries, maladies and diseases. The intellectual story of the instinctive center is the healer and the survivalist.
It is the intellectual story of the instinctive center that can extend sensory awareness down along the spine and then throughout the entire body, so that something in the man senses his entire physical organism all at once, this function is indispensable in the effort to self-remember. During self-remembering the psychology of a man makes the effort to unite the emotional center, the intellectual center, the moving and the instinctive center into one single function that perceives with the quickness of the higher portion of the emotional center, in this state emotions produce sensations, sensations produce thoughts and thoughts produce motions. Here it is possible to connect with the higher centers, at this unified juncture of the four lower centers. A man’s emotions are the product of electrical impulses jumping across physical nerve cells, the same with his thoughts, the intellectual story of the instinctive center can actually witness this physical activity, it can sense it happening, and it can supply finer hydrogens stored in the accumulators of the body to energize these emotions and these thoughts enough that all three functions ignite the higher emotional center. The intentional concentration of the intellectual story of the instinctive center can search through the tissues of the brain and other organs, through the muscles and bones, relieving tension and balancing the overall energy of the physical vehicle, so much so that suddenly the centers balance and connect with the higher centers.
complete_attention@yahoo.com
Q: How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg?
A: Four.
Calling a tail a leg doesn’t make it a leg.
Abraham Lincoln
“119 the Esoteric Sheik of Inner Confusion
GOlb: You have misunderstood me for pehaps the fifth time (including your previous response to my previous comment). When writing ‘I am at it again, damn!’ I was refering to my numerous prior decisions to stay out of the discussion. My mouth and my nimble fingers get me in trouble all the time.”
No misunderstanding Sheik, that’s exactly what I meant: not unified stymulus response machines we are: one ‘I’ ‘wants’ to do something and ten other ‘I’s ‘do’ something else. That is what is meant by sleep! Don’t worry: it is the commonest problem.
Greetings,
Golb
Walter Tanner #130/11
“So what I’m basically saying is that by my time things were a lot groovier, there was no “hell” language, the Fellowship had kind-of grown up. A lot of the hostility, which may be absolutely legitimate, does come from the “first” generations of the Fellowship, and I think to identify to closely with their arguments will blind one to the fact the Fellowship has changed in the past and could absolutely do so in the future.”
And yet on this blog there are reports of women getting kicked out because of their sexual activities (a three-way), people being kicked out because of “vulgar” notes to Burton (explaining sexual activity) and people getting kicked out because they have been “infested with B influence viruses.” It is the same old control-freak nonsense. This is not a “conscious teaching” it is a cult completely under the law of accident while generally directed by Burton’s sexual drives, his greed, his mental illness and his B influence imaginations. He is not conscious.
I know this is not the function of the blog, but could someone help me with Karl Mautz telephone number? I’m trying to rent my place and need him urgently!
Walter Tanner (130): Speaking of the Fellowship of Friends wikipedia page, all references to lawsuits again Robert Burton have been removed from the page. The link to this blog remains, but for how long?
There’s no doubt that these editors are diligently trying to remove all of the negative information, sentence by sentence.
#137 It’s listed in Nevada City.
The King of Clubs: I skipped your reply after the first couple of sentences, if you wrote anything important please write me a summary.
the Esoteric Sheik of Inner Confusion 140/11
The King of Clubs: I skipped your reply after the first couple of sentences,
____________
Then you deserve to be very pleased with yourself.
Thank you Bruce, but I don’t have a directory with me, could you or anyone possibly sent it to me to ludotekaat succeed.net?
Thank you
Dear All
Reading the following website and tears are flowing. THERE IS NO CONNECTION BETWEEN the fellowship of friends, Robert Burton and the 4 way teachings. Read for yourself. The story: “about love”, tipped the scale.
Be brave…all who find it difficult to See, Hear and digest the fact that we all over ruled some inner voices, who knew that something was not complete right. Who followed exercises that were against our heart, our conscience? Mourning, grieving has never been so much and I have seen many people leave this earth including family. the difference in my process that I had no regrets, all was said and shared. Now many regrets are ripping in my heart, the biggest one I DID NOT LISTEN TO MY HEART AND CONSCIENCE.
Boy, does this hurts and as Gloria Gaynor says: I WILL SURVIVE.
http://www.esotericfreedom.com
Hey King of Clubs,
You say: “It [the FOF] is the same old control-freak nonsense. This is not a “conscious teaching” it is a cult completely under the law of accident while generally directed by Burton’s sexual drives, his greed, his mental illness and his B influence imaginations. He is not conscious.”
I think this is an absolutely rational understanding of what’s going on, but is it not also possible that on top of all this RB is awake, some of his students are awake, and enterprising students of the sly path may get something through the effort?
Since leaving the FOF I’ve met the Pentland people, WP Patterson’s people, they all come across with the same “intentional” affectations that I learned so well with Robert (noting background noises, slow movements, deliberate speech).
The whole lineage thing is so ridiculous. I’ve looked at the ex-Horn website and I’m ecstatic that my 4th Way lineage goes back to a guy who basically picked up the System on the fly – that’s the kind of effort Gurdjieff would have appreciated.
For Christ’s sake, Paul never met Jesus, Rumi never met Mohammad — the esoteric truth, C Influence, whatever you want to call it, is hiding all around you in plain sight. Nobody’s got it hoarded and trust no-one who says they’ve got it.
To theologically hair split: orthodox 4th way teaching–like Roman Catholicism and Tibetan Buddhism–insists that you can only progress spiritually with the help of a lineage-holder. I have repudiated that article of dogma, the historical counter-examples are too many to mention. I am a Protest-ant, and I will have my own relationship to the divine, thank you. I am not naïve or dismissive as to Robert Burton’s contribution to my current relationship with the divine (there’s heavy guru/chela karma, always), but my current pathless wanderings don’t have much to do with the Fellowship anymore.
walter.tanner@gmail.com
P.S. IN MEMORIAM
I’ll never forget the skinny, blonde, solar-saturnine, gay older student (he joined in the 70’s) named Phillip or Phillipe, forget his last name. He died of AIDS in the nineties and his final scenes with the school were not pretty (he got dementia and Robert never really liked him because of the competition, I think he got thrown out in the end when he was terminally ill). Anyway, if someone remembers his full name, he should be digitally remembered in this forum.
And also I used to work for this guy who was a matador in the message board world. I think he is still in the FOF, are you out there posting?
Re: 11/82 Newcomer:
Here is a SHORT GUIDE TO THE BLOG:
I posted it on the About page (go to the top of this page and click About, then scroll down).
Thank you King of Clubs for your beautifully written post and your insights.
Dear Joel,
If my simple post lead to is a moment of silence for you, then it is already worth it. I was talking not about accepting someone else’s edict of C influence, but my own understanding of what higher forces aim to show me in my life.
Thanks for responding. Supporting a teacher does not mean losing common sense, sense of truth, or abdicating personal responsibility–quite the opposite–these concepts are to be taken psychologically.
Best to all
Siddiq
Hey Walter, do you want go out for a drink together?
Were you thinking of Philip McGuire?
Friendly,
GOlb
“Dear Joel,
If my simple post lead to is a moment of silence for you, then it is already worth it.”
What? Joel gave up the crosswords on the NYTimes for a moment? :-)
To Walter, #144
Your contributions much appreciated.
I think the rumors of the demise of PMG, the tall fellow you remembered, may be “greatly exaggerated”. I have it from another source that he still alive and apparently well (as in much better). The rest of the story is the way I remember it, too.
Yes, Walter –
In Memoriam Phillipe McGuire.
That one made me weep (got me a *big* photograph from RB on the phone (in person, for a change, made me feel terribly important) ). Phillipe often made my heart smile.
Opus 111 – if Phillipe is still alive, that’s cause for rejoicing. I hope so.
Walter #144
I think you are speaking of Philip Mc Guire. He came back to Paris after being thrown out.
To my knowledge he was seen 3 o r 4 years ago by a fellow friend here in this same city….. on a bicycle.
A. K.
Yeah! Phillip McGuire. Thanks.
GOlb: Drop me a line, I’m in San Francisco but the terms of my parole allow me to visit all Bay Area counties!
walter.tanner@gmail.com
Walter T. (144): “I think this is an absolutely rational understanding of what’s going on [referring to a comment that RB is not conscious, and that the fof is guided by RB's "sexual drives, his greed, his mental illness"], but is it not also possible that on top of all this RB is awake, some of his students are awake, and enterprising students of the sly path may get something through the effort?”
This is not a new point of view, or a new way of thinking about Robert Burton and the FOF. We’ve all considered that — in fact, we spent years considering it. That’s exactly why many of us stayed with the program for as long as we did despite all of the serious concerns we had about RB’s behavior. In fact, the idea is built into the group think and the mind control… i.e., “If you are tossed a life preserver, you don’t question it.” But what if the life preserver is no life preserver at all — but a heavy weight that makes it even more difficult to “survive”?
It may appear wise to adopt a moderate viewpoint on these topics (i.e., if someone were to say, “Robert may still be conscious despite what’s occuring in the FOF”), but it’s interesting that adopting a moderate viewpoint on these things is exactly what prevented many of from leaving the Fellowship.
So, add the encouragement of “moderate thinking” to the list of mind control techniques.
Walter T, I forgot to mention… About your comment regarding lineage to Ouspensky and Gurdjieff, I partially agree with you. Lineage is not the biggest concern that I ever had when I was a member. However, I think the issue is more the misrepresentation of the lineage. If RB and the FOF are pretending to be connected to Gurdjieff, then it’s a lie. The question is, why lie about it? Answer: it helps recruitment, and it tends to legitamize an organization that many believe is not legitimate.
So if people object to these claims of lineage, I listen closely. It may not have been “the” issue that precipitated my departure from the fellowship, but it’s yet another odd twist to this entire saga — the spreading of lies, and covering up of the truth.
Walter Tanner #144/11
>Hey King of Clubs,
>You say: “It [the FOF] is the same old control-freak nonsense. This is not a “conscious teaching” it is a cult completely under the law of accident while generally directed by Burton’s sexual drives, his greed, his mental illness and his B influence imaginations. He is not conscious.”
>I think this is an absolutely rational understanding of what’s going on, but is it not also possible that on top of all this RB is awake, some of his students are awake, and enterprising students of the sly path may get something through the effort?
Can a man or a group of men be controlled by their identifications and be conscious?
>Since leaving the FOF I’ve met the Pentland people, WP Patterson’s people, they all come across with the same “intentional” affectations that I learned so well with Robert (noting background noises, slow movements, deliberate speech).
Horn was probably a student of Pentland (as is claimed by the FOF and denied by the G. Foundation), as anyone that has been in both places realizes. The underlying psychological atmosphere is too similar not to be directly connected. Gurdjieff’s power feature distorted the Fourth Way teaching as it now reappears in the West and that tainted element is a permanent part of the octave. He was another control freak.
K of C.: “Horn was probably a student of Pentland (as is claimed by the FOF and denied by the G. Foundation), as anyone that has been in both places realizes.”
This suggests otherwise:
http://www.esotericfreedom.com/Lineage.html
Elena #146/11
>Thank you King of Clubs for your beautifully written post and your insights.
Was it actually worth something to you or are you just being nice because of the dismissive comments from the blog operator? If you heard something then it was worth the effort, though I wrote it some time ago. I would add that the king of clubs, though my center of gravity, is not the main focus of my work on myself.
Is “succeed.net” owned or operated by FOF students?
Newcomer # 82 – I would definately recommend all the posts by “Lust for Life”!
Seriously… the blog is a hotchpotch of thoughts from a variety of people… why do you want others recommendations? What is it in us that wants to be led and shown by someone else what to think, approve of, agree with, believe and do?
What is it in us that makes it so hard to SEE for ourselves?
Underneath the shallow ‘conditioning’, we are all the same! You will not miss any ultimate secret by not reading any specific posts. You are as close to the ‘truth’ as anyone else here…just look and see how much innate intelligence you have (different from thought) and stop referring to others for it otherwise you are avoiding what you seek. Let go of any desire for truth, immortality, higher states or any other ideas you have been fed as well as the desire to be safe and secure, and trust in your sense of what is right and good.
lifereveller@yahoo.co.uk
The Value of the Blog:
“We find comfort among those who agree with us–growth among those who don’t.” Frank A. Clark
The Wisdom of the Blog:
“The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple.” Oscar Wilde
Slogan of the True Believer:
“Never give up and never face the facts.” Ruth Gordon
Possible Slogan for ex FoF members:
“Abraham Lincoln was great, not because he once lived in a cabin, but because he got out of it.”
Lessons from the story of the FoF:
“Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.” Abraham Lincoln
“A man’s conscience tells him what he shouldn’t do – but it does not keep him from doing it.”
Possible Benefits of being Awake or Enlightened:
“A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do.” Bob Dylan
“A bird doesn’t sing because it has an answer, it sings because it has a song.” Maya Angelou
The FoF Whitewash on Wikipedia:
“Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.” George Orwell
2b #158/11
>K of C.: “Horn was probably a student of Pentland (as is claimed by the FOF and denied by the G. Foundation), as anyone that has been in both places realizes.”
>This suggests otherwise:
http://www.esotericfreedom.com/Lineage.html
“As of the moment I type these characters, I believe that a Pentland-Horn connection was minimal–so tenuous that no connection in the sense of lineage existed.” –Henry Korman
For that matter Pentland himself had a tenuous connection to Gurdjieff. Pentland was a student of Peter Ouspensky for 12 years and only met Gurdjieff for a few months during the period when G. was very sick and dying. Pentland’s connection to Gurdjieff’s direct teaching was through G.’s mistress Jeanne de Salzmann (noted for later rewriting “All and Everything” in order to improve it).
Hi Walter
“is it not also possible that on top of all this RB is awake, some of his students are awake, and enterprising students of the sly path may get something through the effort?”
Of course, RB COULD be ‘awake’…so COULD some other members of the Burton group. So COULD be anyone — say, Charles Manson. He made outlandish claims about himself and set himself up as a prophet too and had very devoted groupies.
Comic Relief – always enjoy reading your posts. You quoted: Abraham Lincoln
“A man’s conscience tells him what he shouldn’t do – but it does not keep him from doing it.”
Interesting, don’t you think? What do you make of it? What Does ‘keep him from doing it’? There was a fascinating post on guilt (actually a couple) on a previous page – I wonder if there is a key in a person’s relationship with their own experience of guilt. Would that poster please make a comment?
When I was first presented with 4th way ideas some years ago it’s been said that is it a “shortcut” to awakening comparing to other traditional ways: monk, yogi and fakir. It was called the “sly man’s way”. I was fascinated with the system. It seems that at the time it was first introduced to the West by Gourdjieff it appeared to be the fastest, smartest, revolutionary way to “know thyself”. May be it was truly a shortcut then, I don’t know.
It’s been almost a century since the “fragments of unknown teaching” were brought to the westerners. A lot has been presented ever since! And lately (last 10 or so years) some very efficient new “shortcuts” are being available in the West for those interested in “awakening”. I understand the skepticism – most of us are naturally suspicious of new things, aren’t we? But new is not necessarily bad, it often works better.
The System (especially after Robert butchered and distorted it) simply may not be a “shortcut” anymore compared to other approaches to self-realization available now. Robert’s teaching may not even be a valid “road sign” at this point. It sure doesn’t sound to me as a good shortcut when the teacher himself says that it will take lifetimes to get to enlightenment. How does one even know that there will be some “lifetimes”? And what if it’s just not so – wow, what a costly mistake… Why would one want to wait and still suffer this lifetime? Why wouldn’t one give a try for something else, after all what’s there to loose?
You can compare this to modern technology – there are slow old-fashioned ways of achieving certain results by hand, or exact same result can be achieved much faster, better and more efficient by computers or newer equipment. Moving towards efficiency and speed seem to be natural tendency occurring in the world, even in nature. There are newer medicines, new vehicles, new theories, discoveries and new spiritual ways. It is nostalgic and kind of sweet to do things in a slow old-fashioned way, but if you are looking to efficiently achieve results – it might be better to research for a newer more progressive ways. Don’t just assume that there are no other ways! Robert tells this to his students because he has to keep the business going, he needs the customers. He lives off the school, it pays for his lifestyle. It’s obvious and completely understandable, it’s a money thing and it’s OK. But just don’t believe him that his way is the only Way! Please do some research, ask, look for yourself. Just because you haven’t looked it doesn’t mean there is “nothing out there” – this is just your fear talking. Don’t waste your life away.
If you are still sincerely interested in spiritual progress but feel that something is not working in this school – don’t just sit there for years, depressed and frustrated, don’t bash your head against the same wall. May be it’s the “tool” itself that is faulty or inefficient after all, and not your lack of sincere efforts. Go do some research and see what else is available today. Ask friends, read online reviews, meet new people. There are very efficient new approaches available that actually do “work”. I say it with confidence, from own very positive experience. There are quite a few new approaches, and one may just “do it” for you. Give something else a try! It may just work. And I am not speaking only about “advaita”approach, although I do find non-dual teaching a very precise and effective one.
Certainly, if the good old “Robert’s shortcut” is still working for you – then it’s perfectly fine. Please enjoy a slow comfortable multi-life-time ride to the present moment, may you finally arrive where you hope to arrive. It’s ridiculously over-priced compared to newer ways (often they are almost free), but –hey, “If you are getting what you’re paying for” – it’s all absolutely perfect.
2b: “So, add the encouragement of “moderate thinking” to the list of mind control techniques.”
I take your point. Just was trying to clearly separate “spiritual development” with “moral development.” If what you want is to be in a higher state of consciousness, there are methods for doing so. If you want to be a good person, there are methods for doing so. They are not causally connected.
This was hard for me to swallow, but got driven home by one of the best teachers I’ve had, Jeffrey Kripal, a professor of the history of religions at Rice. His first book, Kali’s Child, was a takedown of Ramakrishna. If you actually read the Bengali diaries–not the redacted versions from his devotees–turns out ol’ Ramakrishna liked the boys, as in children. He was secretly a tantrika and would regularly do rituals with young children.
Another great book is by Stephen Butterfield called Double Mirror: A Skeptical Journey into Buddhist Tantra. It takes on Chongyam Trungpa as the womanizing, heavy-drinking and fighting guy he was. Its also an interesting read for FOFers, in how closely Trungpa’s intentional communities sound just like Apollo/Isis. Guess its all the same with a charismatic sex-a-holic at the top.
And of course Gurdjieff was an asshole. So here are three pretty realized beings, all with extensive following today, and they were all pricks. So when King of Clubs asks “Can a man or a group of men be controlled by their identifications and be conscious?” the answer is yes, if you think Ramakrishna, Chongyam Trungpa or Gurdjieff were conscious and you think, say, alcoholism is an “identification” (it sure seemed to control G, O, and Trungpa).
The FOF dogma that “consciousness is not functions” is claptrap that gets us to thinking that an enlightened being is somehow divorced from everyday urges and bodily desires. This is ridiculous. Current thinking in philosophical theology is very interested in “embodied spirituality,” to counteract the body-hating religions like modern evangelical Christianity.
And, oh, Jeff Kripal has just published Esalen: The Religion of No Religion, documenting the history of a pagan monastery/resort where much of this embodied spirituality first took root.
walter.tanner@gmail.com
P.S. KoC, thanks for the Pentland/Gurdjieff bit o’ knowledge. I’d thought (but it was probably WPPatterson propoganda) that Gurdjieff gave Pentland the American franchise….
dear friends all .
Are you standing uncomfortably and sort of taken up by something or other?
First to those of you who doubt rb,s excesses.
I have reason to believe that most of it is true, because if one makes a logical progression from the way things were when my personal experience took place it seems possible and even likely that he requires stronger measures now.
Whaleriders story is also my story, we are brothers in an unfortunately not very elite club. I can vouch for the truth of every word he says! I have been there too, in almost all of the same circumstances. Respect to you amigo!
This purported teacher at this time begged me, i mean begged me to “whiz” in his mouth, now this was definately not for my evolution, by the way for those unfamiliar with the term whiz it means to pee or piss. I think that one has to experience something like that in order to know the truth of what is taking place, in order to feel the emotional truth of it, whether its something done for anothers benefit or just instinctive greed. Another detail comes to mind while travelling, in another country his suggesting that we could buy two very young prostitutes a young boy for him and a young girl for me. Now again for the full truth of it you would have to have been there, yes it did shock me but it didnt enhance my presence or my work in any way and sorry but i dont believe that it was intentional teaching to help me overcome mechanical morality or any such drivel.
When does it become enough evidence for people to realize whats going on? when he starts to make snuff movies?
But i get a terrible sinking feeling that they too would be explained away “oh thats not robert thats just someone who looks exactly like him” etc, etc.
DEAR bruce, shalom!
my mothers mother was, you guessed it Jewish and you know what that makes me technicaly, also jewish.
Anti semite i am not, and have thoroughly appreciated the study of the zohar, the torah and the kabbalah ,i think the tree of life is a wonderfull teaching in itself. But I have read the protocols of the elders of zion, its not hidden one can simply put it in the search bar and find it. Now this is an honest question, have you read it?
My comments were in answer to a question posed in an earlier post and as objective as i could make them.
If you look back at my original post you will see i make reference to the as he is referred to black pope who for those of you who dont know is the head of the jesuit order, which is the military order of the catholic church.George H W Bush once said “i answer only to the pope”. The present general is Peter hans Kolvenbach and he may be the most powerfull man on the planet or at least one of them. The jesuits were founded by Ignacius Loyola who was a Basque soldier they are an order of assasins.
Jews and Jesuits are connected through the Rothchilds who own that little country known as America through their federal reserve bank. Here is an extract of the jesuits induction oath.” I do further promise and declare, that I will have no opinion or will of my own, or any mental reservation whatever, even as a corpse or cadaver, but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may receive from my superiors in the Militia of the Pope… I furthermore promise and declare that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition; and that I will hang, burn, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics, rip up the stomachs and the wombs of their women and crush their infants heads against the walls, in order to annihilate forever their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly, I will secretly use the poisoned cup, the strangulating cord, the steel of the poniard or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the person or persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agent of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Faith, of the Society of Jesus. ”
These are the people who take out presidents like Lincoln and kennedy for daring to change their currency.
Im sorry this became so long and there are some connections i have not established, but when i peeked out from under my rock i saw that they have become very securely established and it frightened me, because everyone seems to think its ok when it happens in some third world country where you get very little feedback of whats going on but what about when it starts taking place in your own back yard and wait a minute that is our own backyard they are our brothers and sisters
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5587990522549547050
the above link is from the horses mouth. By the way Bruce do you have children? i do a boy and a girl, thats one reason im concerned what is happening to our world.
Are you the kind of person who likes a man who calls a spade a digging implement?
may we all come to love.
ps Elena you are beautifull and intelligent,
make profit for yourself, surf it, use it, let it take you there.
I leave you my loves with a quote from Blakes The marriage of heaven and hell.
“The soul of sweet delight can never be defiled”.
For those interested, the Articles of Incorporation of the Fellowship of Friends, Inc. and an amendment to those articles are now online:
http://www.archive.org/details/TheEsotericHistoryArchive_13
Initially, the specific and primary purpose of the corporation is as a church. In 1979 the specific and primary purpose changes from “church” to “religion.”
#161 Comic Relief:
The FoF Whitewash on Wikipedia:
“Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.” George Orwell
Precisely. At Wikipedia, however, everyone (and ultimately, no one) is in control. The result is controlled chaos. The truth is out there, but good luck pinning the slippery little hombre down in a Wikipedia article!
Anyway…the FOF article as of 15 minutes ago looked pretty good to me. It’s been greatly shortened, and it clearly highlights the controversial aspects of the group, which I believe should be highlighted in the service of caveat emptor. The failed predictions are presented; the “metaphorical” disclaimer has been removed. The lawsuits are mentioned.
But by the time you read this, someone will probably have rewritten it. Yesterday, the entire article had been tagged for deletion on the grounds that the topic isn’t “notable” according to Wiki standards. OK, that’s probably true.
[Bogart: "Ilsa, I'm no good at being noble, but it doesn't take much to see that the problems of three little people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world."]
If anyone cares and has several hours to squander, read the archived Discussion pages for the whole ludicrous history of the thing.
To cyclops, 166
“Jews and Jesuits are connected through the Rothchilds who own that little country known as America through their federal reserve bank”
Banks profit but they no longer own very much. If nothing else, they own debt, lots of it, and yes America is expert at indebtness. But believing that “America” is owned by the Rothchilds is harder to believe than the rest of your stories, as disturbing as they may be.
Sorry cyclops, you’re full of s**t. If you’re Jewish, than you’re a self-loathing jew, and as Jewish as Carl Warner when telling me, “You’re a damn jew too….like me”. Any fool that isn’t aware of the origin of the Protocols is choosing to remain ignorant or simply looking for a target for guttural hate. Have I read it? I’ve read it, restored it and re-bound it several times.
For those too lazy to seek the truth here’s the wikipedia entry:
“The Protocols of the Elders of Zion (Russian: “Протоколы сионских мудрецов”, or “Сионские протоколы”, see also other titles) is an antisemitic pamphlet that purports to describe a Jewish plot to achieve world domination. It is one of the most well known and discussed examples of literary forgery.
Numerous independent investigations have proven it to be a plagiarism and a hoax.[1]
Some scholars maintain that the Russian-French journalist Matvei Golovinski fabricated the text in the late 1890s. Among the most notable early refutations of the Protocols as a forgery were a series of articles printed in The Times of London in 1921. This series revealed that much of the material in the Protocols was plagiarized from earlier political satire that did not have an antisemitic theme. Since 1903, when the Protocols appeared in print, its earliest publishers have offered vague and often contradictory testimony detailing how they obtained their copy of the rumored original manuscript.[2]
The Protocols are widely considered to be the beginning of contemporary conspiracy theory literature,[3] and take the form of an instruction manual to a new member of the “elders,” describing how they will run the world through control of the media and finance, and replace the traditional social order with one based on mass manipulation.
The text was popularized by those opposed to Russian revolutionary movement, and was disseminated further after the revolution of 1905, becoming known worldwide after the 1917 October Revolution. It was widely circulated in the West in 1920 and thereafter. The Great Depression and the rise of Nazism were important developments in the history of the Protocols, and the hoax continued to be published and circulated despite its debunking.”
Which, for me, gives anything you say zero credibility.
And of course you’ve left out the black helicopters, flying in to tie up the whole “plan”.
Help?
To Post #86/11 ~
Yes, Alex Horn knows about Robert Burton…
A few years ago RB hired people to diligently ‘dig up’
Alex Horn’s whereabouts and succeeded; not to be
confused with my success in the assisted teleporting of Whalerider’s toaster… to be continued soon.
_____________________________
To Post #103/11
To Be a Demi-God Toaster!
Onwards, my fellow white breads, onwards!
______________________________
Love to you all.
I was having stress elated phobias about posting. No help needed.
But, what I was trying to get through is the following:
Circa 1979. Robert (Burton) is now beginning to levitate.
Sorry W. I find myself in Paxse – Laos now, a bit too far, but I’m moving to Cambodia (down the river) soon.
Greetings,
Golb
Cathie: “the FOF article as of 15 minutes ago looked pretty good to me… The lawsuits are mentioned…But by the time you read this, someone will probably have rewritten it.”
You predicted correctly. The lawsuit paragraph was removed as of 4:30 Pacific time. As of right now, the article DOESN’t look pretty good. There’s barely a mention of anything controversial.
It sounds like a pretty reputable organization. Maybe we should join.
Oh wait… What’s this at the bottom of the page…
Blog about the Fellowship of Friends
Information about the Fellowship of Friends from the Rick A. Ross Institute
etc.
Maybe we shouldn’t join.
Veronicapoe, are you posting all of these documents on line?
What is your motivation and why are you doing this?
Also, are these not copyright protected by the Fellowship and if so, do you have permission?
Thank you
CQ
Articles of Incorporation are public documents.
Re: King of Clubs #133
I also skipped it as I do many other long winded posts. I think Goethe once apologized for a lengthy letter by saying that if he had had more time it would have been shorter. And, of course, there is the well known quote from Shakespeare, “Brevity is the soul of wit.”
“Articles of Incorporation: Articles of Incorporation are already a “public document”, because they are filed with the Secretary of State. The benefit to publishing these on-line is that people can access them easily, and would not need to “bother” the association and or the manager for copies. No specific disadvantage to publishing them comes to mind. They obviously would be subject to a much wider audience (and much more comprehensive scrutiny or study) than if they were not published on the internet.”
To Siddiq , re: my post #19
I am also still waiting for a response from YOU to my two questions, and the Sufi theology from your brother Al-Ghazali doesn’t count as a substitute. What I am wanting is your personal, heart-felt, and verified views on these questions. Quotes and party lines are not particularily informing or interesting to me, as I heard plenty of that in my twenty years in the FOF.
re 115 Wake up little suzy
I completely agree with this post. Furthermore I want to add another movie produced with the same basic aim but using a different route, ” What The Bleep Do We Know?, Down The Rabbit Hole version. It can be found at whatthebleep(dot)com
It was April 1998 when Virginia (Ginger to a very few) Jenkins lent me her copy of A New Beginning, by Jerry and Esther Hicks. I quickly read it and made an astonishing discovery. There on the calender of events I was informed that in three days there would be a workshop in Sacramento. Now there was an omen! I attended on the Saturday and when I returned home that night I was glowing. After telling Gerda some of the highlights she insisted on attending the Sunday half. Our lives had just taken a miraculous turn. Hugs and kisses to you, Virginia!
Oh dear, miraculous? What’s that another one of those queeny words like “secret”? Typical Renald! So emotional!
No wonder, look at who his partner was! As queeny as they come! Two sides of the same coin, to be sure!
Sometimes it pays to throw away the prescription glasses and the magnifying glasses. Sometimes a new vision is forced to install itself. Thanks to all! Joy to All. We ARE One. Oops! Love, Renald brjbrisson(at)yahoodotcom
Its amazing how the blog has changed from the stimulus delayed response to the staccato of the current version. My wife continues to make fun of me as ‘married to the blog’ even if I only skim many of the longer contributions.
While she was joking this time, I recalled our discussions when I joined the fellowship some 20 years back.
The ‘running away from life’ accusations and her fear of loosing me, if she allows my ’spiritual quest’ . Looking back I realize how much of this search for enlightenment is mechanical too and build into my ‘machine’.
The popular enneagram interpretation ( Don Riso, H.Palmer and my favorite Eli Jackson Bear) , which was hard to allow after living ‘our’ planetary interpretation ( see Joel and Suzanne ’s books) for so many years, has a type 7 who is a professional seeker.
Is joining the fellowship mechanical as well? Is falling for ideas like the fall of California, 44 angeles and higher worlds as mechanical as to become a Firefighter or a Musician?
Well, yes there are other types in the fellowship as well, but many got dragged into it by folks like me (I got my wife and kids to move with me from Europe to Oregon House in the late 80s).
“Remember why you came” , Gurdjieffs banner over his french compound is still good advice. I want to understand and I appreciate all the many facets of thought in this blog helping me to solve the puzzle, why I joined a cult.
all the best,
Michael
At one point Robert Burton indicated that he had only three friends: Peter Bish_p, Miles and JoelF.
Of course, Peter has passed. Miles departed the “Fellowship of Friends.” And JoelF is bloggersville.
My view in observing Robert Burton for decades is that he has (and likely had) no friends. This despite little odd friend-like flitations with certain non-Fellowship persons (remember D. Gilfe-ther). Also, he was pretty good to his mother, in a measured sort of way.
Also, don’t know if this has been discussed, but I heard that the term “Fellowship of Friends” was originally the name of Ouspensky’s group in England. After the scales fell from my eyes, this “fact” seemed like just one more misappropriation (like his birthday magically no longer being on the 13th).
I was given to understand that the number 4 is considered unlucky in certain oriental cultures – had wondered what Robert Burton would do with the “44″ (in moving into Japan, etc.). Guess we now know — sorry fellows (and Eliz I) – no longer C-influence, we’re moving on to the always less controversial … cave persons.
Be interesting to see if JoelF remembers this “Friend” comment above and has any current thoughts on the honor bestowed.
Thanks to all for helping me (and others) to leave the Fellowship of Friends again, at a higher level.
Unfortunately “What the Bleep” (and to a lesser extent “The Secret”) is a come-on for J.Z. Knight (of the “Ramtha” channeling gig) and her “cult”, as well as a few similar “sister groups”. Her thing isn’t much different than the FOF…sex drugs and rock and roll. Google it past the positive PR postings to the underlying information that’s available. Most of these featured authorities (quantum physicists, doctors etc.) are remarkably “connected” to her school. But a few of the quoted experts were upset how their interviews were edited. Apparently what they actually said was cleverly manipulated to support the film’s thesis.
Of course all these gigs have some modicum truth in them. You can’t charge for 100% fluff.
J.Z Knight is the blond woman in What the Bleep. You know, the one who mentions erect penis several times.
Dear all and friends
In 1998 after the prediction,we and many students had a dinner in the back of the Rosegarden with Robert Burton. We left and when I said goodbye Robert Burton said something like: “and the 1998 prediction, did not happen”. My response was: “Oo, Robert I am so grateful that it did not happen, who wants something like that to happen!” My friend over heard the conversation and said that he thought that Robert was inner considering and was relieved with my response…
Just a story…
Hello.
To Walter Tanner (130 & 144)
Your intelligent, humorous, calm and extremely well-written posts are a breath of fresh air.
“Hoarded” is the strongest word. Is it possible for any individual or school to “hoard” all the potentially beautiful possibilities in this vast, stunning and terrifying world? Why would that ever be necessary?
Why can’t the Fellowship ideas exist alongside any other theories, quests or questions peacefully?
To LOL (83 & 84)
Can you engage in conversation rather than dismissing any who think differently?
Sarcasm is a very limited mode of expression. Scorn, disdain and blind hatred for individuals who don’t see the world quite the same as you do, is awkward and puerile.
It would appear that you are paranoid or deliberately attempting to malign the creator of this discussion board by lying.
That might be a childish technique.
Many members who contribute here claim that they wish to offer a balanced view of the Fellowship of Friends and Robert Burton.
A few current members, who are willing to engage in mature conversation, may well achieve that goal.
Your posts will, most certainly, have the opposite effect on interested visitors and/or prospective students.
To Vera.mente (112)
Puritanical. Great word.
As an artist, I too felt that it was a life or death situation in terms of leaving the school.
I initially felt that the school would feed my artistic consciousness. Ultimately, I felt that the puritanical nature of the “rules & regulations” did not, in the least bit, encourage my creativity and freedom.
The ideas actually squelched the importance of my individual expression because it devalued them. Within the context of the school, my intuitions and, yes! imagination!!! were constantly judged as wrong or questionable.
As an individual, my life as an artist feeds me constantly.
It is true that I valued the Fellowship’s constant reminder that exposure to art, music, dance, theatre, fine impressions etc., is essential.
Still, I grew up with those values. I was lucky in that my mother constantly exposed her children to the arts. I was fortunate in that I earned a Masters in Fine Arts. I know the importance and constantly pursue exposure to various artistic endeavors as a natural extension of my upbringing and life experiences.
Nabokov or Iris Murdoch express the ideas of consciousness through their ability to brilliantly use words to minimize and maximize human experience.
David Lynch expresses the ideas of the common, asleep experience through his amazing filmmaking (see “Mulholland Drive”, but you’ll have to watch it at least 4 times).
In NYC, The Wooster Group constantly present plays that enlighten texts, including “Hamlet”, by examining and creating original contexts through their free creativity.
The Frangelico exhibit at the Met charged me with new purpose.
The exhibit of Spanish painters at the Guggenheim fascinated me and enlightened my sense of Picasso’s influences. He most certainly did not emerge from one school.
Jackson Pollack’s efforts are a clear illustration of some type of consciousness. There is no question that his artistic struggles were a part of some kind of enlightenment.
There are thousands of examples.
LL
To Living the Questions, Elena and All,
So, here is my response to the friendship questions…
To Living the Question (#56)
“1. Would you please elaborate on what you consider to be the important characteristics of friendship?
2. Would you be so kind as to elaborate as to what, specifically, you have verified about Rovert Burton’s claim to be a man #7, and a prophet of God?”
1. Truth, Loyalty, acceptance…
Any more writing about this is besides the point, a friend is something we try to BE, not talk about. We all know what it is.
2. My verifications are useless to others and would only serve to ridicule on this forum. Anytime we put a label on something (Man #7 etc.) it leads to opposite thinking, judgment &tc. But I have verified that Robert is far more awake than anyone I have ever met and that he is qualified to guide me along the process of awakening.
and to Elena
Elena
To Siddiq,
“Would you please expand on the nature of your friendship with Robert? I’ve seen that he is not even a friend to his promised to be second conscious being on the planet, so what service are you doing to him that makes you more acceptable? Has he ever sat with you without any agenda? ”
I do not claim to be more acceptable than others, nor do I claim to have any special sort of friendship (any such thinking is foreign to a true friend of anyone–how can one compare?). If you want to enjoy friendships, be a friend. As I wrote above, we all know what that means.
And yes, I have sat down with Robert on a occasions, just being, without any agenda–just observing life go by in Isis, and some other cities. These moments remain unforgettable verifications for me of how simple and direct presence can be.
I must say I do not experience the “exchange” you are talking about–it is sad to me that you feel that way– I feel there are many opportunities for second line always, we have to take them, and we discard ourselves, no one can discard us. Good luck, Elena, thank you for asking.
Siddiq
Siddiq says “I must say I do not experience the “exchange” you are talking about–it is sad to me that you feel that way”
No offense, but you must either be a poser, or incredibly naive.
You have to pay to play in the school. Unless you are serving some purpose, any time spent with the teacher is an accident.
165 Walter Tanner says:
“And of course Gurdjieff was an asshole. So here are three pretty realized beings, all with extensive following today, and they were all pricks.”
Pretty strong identification. Didn’t this same asshole say “one is never responsible for the subjective states of others”
” The FOF dogma that “consciousness is not functions” is claptrap that gets us to thinking that an enlightened being is somehow divorced from everyday urges and bodily desires. This is ridiculous.”
I remember Meher Baba (Is he an asshole too?) went on pilgramages serching for “masts”, God-realized beings stuck between planes. They more-or-less all had some pretty disgusting function-habits. This tells me that your observation did not take this into account.
“… Esalen: The Religion of No Religion…”
Yes, I have been there and met Abe Maslow and did Bio-energetic stuff and met the “Crosby Stills and Nash”bunch well- documented in the video, “Celebration at Big Sur”. This was the West coast beginning of using the energy of the body which Rajneesh later exploited and many therapists from Eslan ended up at Madras.
To lovers of The Secret:
Remember one of the opening scenes in The Secret where they talk about how The Secret has been suppressed in the past so that a few people could keep all the power; and they show this early 20th-century sequence with the capitalist supervisor walking through rows of his working-class laborers? Can you picture Robert in that sequence? What do you think, does Robert know The Secret? After all, he has attracted personal wealth probably in the top 10% of the nation; he takes regular trips all over the world; he has world-renowned performers visit his home; he has attracted hundreds of lovers to serve all his interesting needs; his every material desire is pretty much fulfilled – moreover, he has materialized an immortal soul through consistently focusing and refocusing on it; thousands worship and adore him and willingly send him money so he can buy expensive jewelry for himself on his birthday. Isn’t that all that The Secret promised? What’s more: we all can live The Secret, since there is enough stuff in the world for everybody – as was mentioned in the movie, not everybody desires the same things. So if Robert desires a hundred toy-boys and then materializes them, a hundred women probably desire new toasters and will eventually materialize them if they just keep focusing and refocusing their minds on already smelling the toast.
Wake up and smell the narcissism. New and improved (different packaging, this time more cheese).
Ex-members need to set up their own blog, one operated by an actual ex-member of the FOF. If you do and you want me there contact me at:
complete_attention@yahoo.com
(make sure that your “spam settings” do not block yahoo addresses)
#193…”Ex-members need to set up their own blog, one operated by an actual ex-member of the FOF.”
And why is that?
#194
And why is that?
The octave has become too influential not to be householdered by one of us.
Veronicapoe,
Thank you , yours 167, wow
Remember conjuring up stuff like this for Federal grant money. But no one on either end of the stick ever believed it. Just the hoops that needed to be jumped through.
But sadly enough, this was my school. I did believe it. Those who should have known better playing fast and loose with everyone from God to Goethe. And for what end?
From the Canons of the Fellowship of Friends
Principles of the Gospels
(You may know the drill but it is actually in there)
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the gentle (meek): for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be satisfied (filled).
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain (be shown) mercy.
Blessed are the poor (pure) in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the sons(children) of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:3-10
Well, a few variations from my King James version. But the most striking being: “Blessed are the “poor” in heart”.
Think it was actually “pure” of heart. Given the choice, poor of heart vs pure of heart. No contest. Pure. Pure.
And if “The Canons” can change pure to poor, it is all down hill from there.
No theological scholar here. Just liked the music, the pretty windows and that eery “there is more than what you see” feeling.
But too much is familiar. So much self sacrifice. So much sacrifice of what you know should not be sacrificed.
The friend taking a tea bag to Apollo D’Oro and ordering hot water. Saving up for an immigration lawyer to keep her husband from being deported. Fellowship no can do on this one.
A dedicated elder, needs assistance. No Fellowship resources currently available. Turn to your friends. Shame, shame, shame.
On and on, everyone here knows some merciful, meek/gentle, peacemaker who is not being shown mercy, comforted, or seeing the kingdom of heaven.
Amongst us. Contrary to our Edict.
Joy
Cake
ps to arthur, help? let me know. your cyber bud, cake
To Siddiq, Post #189
Thanks for responding to my questions and keeping the focus at a personal level. I would agree with the three words (truth, loyalty, acceptance) you use to describe friendship and also that it is something we try to BE.
So, given your description of friendship, would you say that Robert was being a friend to Whale Rider, Troy Buzbee and other such naïve young men when he sexually used them for his personal gratification?
Your comment that “anytime we put a label on something (Man #7 etc.) it leads to opposite thinking, judgment, etc.” is quite ironic, since it is Robert himself who placed this ‘label’ (Man #7) on his spiritual condition and who also has ‘labeled’ former FOF students as ‘better off dead’, ‘food for the moon’, etc. What possible positive intent or outcome can there be for using such potent and loaded labels, since labeling leads to judgment, etc.?
As Stella so frequently used to say: “If you see a bird on the lawn pulling up a worm, you can safely say you saw a bird on the lawn pulling up a worm”. I think the facts speak for themselves.
If, as you say, you believe Robert is qualified to guide you along the process of awakening, then all I can say is :”Good Luck, Siddiq”.
Does anyone remember a lady named Roberta (I forgot the last name) who died in an automobile accident near Knights Landing?
To Siddiq (#11-123)
What is the use of making affirmations for Golb, Ames, or Burton? So you think we are all sincere? So what? What kind of feeling are you trying to induce in your readers, that you are being extra observant, or just making nice?
Further, when you start going on about “standing behind Robert and looking through his eyes as well as my own, throughout the prediction times”, you are lying, just like Golb. You have no idea of how to “look through Burton’s eyes”. You may have empathy, you may have imagination, but you cannot know. He could be suffering from narcissistic personality disorder, to pick a random example, and you would never know.
Next, it makes a terrific difference whether you choose to act from your highest level of understanding, or from what you imagine are “instruction of Influence C”, because they are not one and the same. If you believe that Influence C is external to you (and you must, if you accept Burton’s claims that he is the exclusive intermediary between you and Influence C), then you are merely completing the betrayal of your true self when you make this claim. On the other hand, if I have misunderstood you, then you have no business with Burton as an instructor or mediator, your obligation is to act from your highest level of understanding, not his. But I don’t think I have misunderstood, because you continue on from there to make further affirmations for him (“wholeheartedly going through the process”) that you cannot know. You have entered his fantasy.
Finally, what you say “might appear to be circular” is indeed circular; no logical entry point, no logical exit.
Come on, Siddiq, you were gifted with an intellectual center, so use it!
In reply to Post #195/11
Don’t worry King of Clubs, it’s the king of clubs that monitors that which may or may not become too influential and ironically is the phenomenon that promotes excesses and hard core monitoring of just where the excesses are excessed and, let us say, turned down here and there.
Sure, it’s a great idea, to ‘monitor’, yet, by now, if you’ve followed the internal contents of this blog site, there’s nothing that has not already been said, coveted, covered, blogged, flogged, logged, sawed, bogged, gnawed, thawed, clawed, nipped, snipped, dipped, gripped, tripped, flipped and out right drug out of the sewers of King Kongdome, that would surprise anyone due to the lack of a monitor.
So, whaz up?
“We don’t need no education.” Pink Floyd
Education is for bricks in the wall.
I vote for the Hulk,
go through the wall,
not over, under, around,
why not through it?
Do we not sense a greater task to the legacy of spiritual
seeking than to keep seeking, what of the found?
Once you see that wall, get green, do something with it.
The Great Wall of China supplies the stones for the construction of many small villages, it is slowly disappearing, this too will happen to the Fellowship of Friends, it is a monitoring wall.
Love to you all.
King of the Instinctive Center (159) It is beautiful to see you bring pride back to the vehicle that carries us through this plane. A pride that Robert never acknowledged because he was unable to rise above it.
What you seem to be pointing to is that universal ability of the King of Clubs to perceive the world of nature. Oneness with Nature. That place were the kings ring in harmony and move beyond one into the whole cosmos. When presence is behind the king of clubs, can there be anything but gratitude for nature? I say gratitude but it is an integrity with it that does not need the intellectual acknowledgement, just the emotional vibration.
This, which we have all experienced in different degrees in our lives was robbed from us in the Fellowship of Friends where Robert is so starved of natural impressions that he has to make up for it, feeling the flesh of young men with desperation and no love. It is sad how we condemm ourselves to certain impressions at such a high cost and neglect others offering themselves so generously.
To me, you’re talking about the instinctive center with presence behind. Without presence, it is a wild beast devouring people’s energy physically, emotionally and intellectually, like Robert.
While in animals, it works as a legitimate tool for survival, in man it works equally beastly but the territory it thrives in is the energetic aura of each other’s I. Indeed, it cannot acknowledge any body but whoever it is identified with like an animal with its prey. The queens just follow it blindly. It cannot see beyond sex attraction, status, money or groupies.
It’s interesting that Robert talked about it so consistently, he knew what he was fighting and also interesting that it was our king of clubs what idolized him, unable to perceive and acknowledge our own self.
On that level of the I, we are equal no matter how many more talents you might have that I don’t. When we know that, only joy can come from appreciating each other’s talents.
Thank you again for your post.
To the Sheik,
Sometime back you talked about not talking and your posts have been refreshing so very often, I do miss them, even if we don’t agree.
I admire your patience with us, not being indoctrinated and silly as we were and probably still are, in different ways, but it hurt when you called the blog this “bitch”. Maybe it’s just the language that I can’t quite identify whether it is weighing too much on you or you’re being cool.
Something seems to be bothering you, fine, let us know and maybe there are other solutions.
To Howard Carter, Post #116
Howard, your few quotes from Burton do not shed any light on the issue. Quite the contrary; their semantic content adds up to zero. But that is not unexpected, considering the source. Much more importantly, why do you think that HIS inventions, however bizarre, have anything to do with YOUR personal verifications?
Chopsticks’ original question (#10-338) was, “How does “Cave drawings” images help you to Self Remember?” You still have not answered the question.
Insoluble Dilemmas:
“It is a good idea to believe only half of what you hear, but be sure the half you believe isn’t the wrong half.”
“People who are sensible enough to give good advice are usually sensible enough to give none.”
“Nobody believes the official spokesman, but everybody trusts an unidentified source.”
“Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority.” Doctor Who
“The trouble with making intelligent suggestions is that you’re apt to be appointed to carry them out.”
Gene Brown
“There are no exceptions to the rule that everybody likes to be an exception to the rule.” George Osner
“In the long run, we are all dead.” John Maynard Keynes
#165 Walter Tanner
Why the division into “spiritual development’ and “moral development”? It is pathological development. I agree, it is crazy to separate “consciousness” and “functions”. If there is pathology (repressed shadow) it climbs up the ladder with you and poisons everything and it is seen in the pathology of the group.
#166 cyclops
You are not the only one to look out from under the rock. I am sure there are many like myself who search alternative media, get out and protest only to be belittled and maligned by corporate media. the horrors of the minds of those who have only developed to an ego-centric or ethno-centric structure of cognition and who crave and attain the power to perpetuate their horrible minds are anathema to those of a true “spiritual” bent. “The best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate intensity.” It has always been so.
It is true that it appears that the horrible is on the rise. The dreadful has already happened. What is not so apparent is that the “fourth turning” is underway.
“Goethe once apologized for a lengthy letter by saying that if he had had more time it would have been shorter. And, of course, there is the well known quote from Shakespeare, “Brevity is the soul of wit.”
!
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=7016586884322259137&hl=en
#182
“I want to understand and I appreciate all the many facets of thought in this blog helping me to solve the puzzle, why I joined a cult. ”
Hello Michael,
If by any chance you have the time to read or re-read the “animals farm of George Orwell”, I found it very instructive in this short novel how the thruth gets distorted insidiously, little by little.
Enjoy.
Aline C.
Living the Questions
“So, given your description of friendship, would you say that Robert was being a friend to Whale Rider, Troy Buzbee and other such naïve young men when he sexually used them for his personal gratification?”
What part of the question are you living? The being a friend part or the being sexually used for personal gratification?
You are making me LOL!
#155 – 2b
“So, add the encouragement of “moderate thinking” to the list of mind control techniques.”
You hit the point.
Also, moderate thinking is characterized by a lack of accuracy.
when accuracy is missing, thinking is not based upon verification.
Aline C.
To #193, 194, 195 and 201 all related to Mr. Sheik and this blog.
I think a partial answer can be found at 1 #90.
To Cake Thanks for thinking of me.
To Walter 144 and others regarding Phillippe McGuire
I am still in touch with Phillippe and he is doing fine and is still alive :-)
He was left alone and kick out by the FOF when he was sick. The sisters of the order of Mother Theresa took care of him in San Francisco.
His story is more than shocking, but it is up to him to tell it.
I remember Roberts comments about the mechanicality of Mother Theresa. But here was a man in need and his people were not willing to help, but the women from India did it. So much to the value of ‘friendship’ of the fellows in the school of ‘love’.
King of Clubs,
Succeed.net is not a Fellowship of Friends or student’s network.
To Siddiq, 11/189
Do you notice that you avoid to answer half of the questions? The ones your split personality can handle?
Since you are obviously a man that has travelled with Robert and we all know the price of that for no one travels with him for free, and the price is payed in specimen or semen if you prefer, then I can well believe that at some point you all have to sit down and rest without that meaning that there isn’t an agenda.
Again, if your friendship with Robert is like yours with mine, I can see it is only in your imagination or where have you been in the past two months or even today when I need your help? Or is help not a word in your vocabulary of friendship?
“No one is more blind than he who does not want to see”.
Popular saying.
That is a legitimate position Siddiq, in this world of ilegitimates but stop pretending that you actually care to look at what is being said here, because you are lying to yourself and us. Condescending but not dialoguing for in a diologue one actually hears not just the words but the beings.
And actually, let me give you the benefit of the doubt. Everything positive that you are seeing in Robert is actually there but until you are able to see everything that is negative, you will not really understand the height that he reached.
It is not a height to underestimate, but it is not the height of a man number seven……. barely a man number five and only on rare occassions.
Like any one of us, somewhere in his being he is sincere. It is just that his King of Clubs overrode him to keep the pace of dealing with the many of us who idolized him. We were by far, his greatest obstacle and he couldn’t overcome it. The temptation of power was too great. It is similar to a marriage that one keeps putting energy into but deep down knows one is having to give one’s self up to keep it alive. It works to sacrifice one’s self for some time but when you do it for too long you become a victim like we all did trying to make efforts of third line that Robert couldn’t help stealing, as if they were for him and not for us all.
To: 193 The King of Clubs
“Ex-members need to set up their own blog, one operated by an actual ex-member of the FOF.”
I disagree.
The surprising success of this blog is due in no small part to the fact that our host is NOT personally invested in the Fellowship of Friends, either pro or con. Thus, although he clearly is critical of the, shall we say, ‘cult-like’ FoF, his lack of an agenda has encouraged a dialogue between currents and formers that would have been impossible if he were “an actual ex-member of the FOF.”
To: 201 Elena
“I admire your (the Sheik’s) patience with us, not being indoctrinated and silly as we were and probably still are, in different ways… Something seems to be bothering you, fine, let us know and maybe there are other solutions.”
I agree. Sheik?
Any body remember the name of the student who was killed in a hunting accident in the late 90’s or early 00’s – I think he was a lawyer, fairly newish student?
Does RB ever express doubt?
Once he asked what I thought about another student’s suggestion that the Fellowship of Friends invest in a scheme that seemed to me ‘too good to be true.’ I responded ‘I think it would just be gambling.’
He thought a few moments and replied ‘Then let’s not do it. You know, I have never been attracted to gambling. After all, we are already gambling everything.’
Dear bruce.
“what is truth”?
is it what the majority believe? is it what the most vociferous believe? does it change from time to time and place to place?
You seem abusive, so i think maybe you have been abused. Perhaps by being jewish you have had to put up with a lot of “mammoth poop”.
Many of my german friends have had to put up with mammoth poop also for their ancestors roles in Hitlers regime.
Im not a practicing jew, its just that my great grand mother was of jewish extraction and im proud of all my heritage. There are many other races in it, im quite a mongrel.
I would like to drop the jewish thing as i dont feel its going any where and one can come up with so much contradictory information that it would take a lifetime of study for example below is the introduction to another website.
INTRODUCTION
Of the Protocols themselves little need be said in the way of introduction. The book in which they are embodied was first published in the year 1897 by Philip Stepanov for private circulation among his intimate friends. The first time Nilus published them was in 1901 in a book called The Great Within the Small and reprinted in 1905. A copy of this is in the British Museum bearing the date of its reception, August 10, 1906. All copies that were known to exist in Russia were destroyed in the Kerensky regime, and under his successors the possession of a copy by anyone in Soviet land was a crime sufficient to ensure the owner’s of being shot on sight. The fact is in itself sufficient proof of the genuineness of the Protocols. The Jewish journals, of course, say that they are a forgery, leaving it to be understood that Professor Nilus, who embodied them in a work of his own, had concocted them for his own purposes.
Mr. Henry Ford, in an interview published in the New York WORLD, February 17th, 1921, put the case for Nilus tersely and convincingly thus:
“The only statement I care to make about the PROTOCOLS is that they fit in with what is going on. They are sixteen years old, and they have fitted the world situation up to this time. THEY FIT IT NOW.”
from the web site below.
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion1.htm#WHO
Dear bruce I sincerely hope you are right and that it is just some conspiracy bullshit, but its not all bullshit this conspiracy stuff some of it is not hidden at all, for example the FACT that almost all the founding fathers were masons. By the way all three of my brothers are masons and i love them all. In talking with them they point out that they know very little of what the higher echelons are busy with such as the english Queen who is their head.
Any way I leave you the last word on this, Im done, its been a large side octave but thank you ive enjoyed it.
I hope you stand up for others as much as you do the jews.
Did you ever read “A stone for Danny Fisher”?
Are you familiar with Lenny Bruce? “oh the white folks hate the black folks and the indian folks hate the pakistani folks and the spicks hate the wops and everybody hates the jews.”drastically paraphrased apart from the last line.
I leave you with a line from John Keats which re establishes scale for me.
When I have fears that I may cease to be,
Before my pen has glean’d my teeming brain…
then on the shore
Of the wide world I stand alone, and think
Till love and fame to nothingness do sink.
Keats.
Untitled sonnet, written in a letter (January 31, 1818)
P.S. I hope you recover!
post 166, interesting mix of anti-semitism and anti-burtism. Also the recent discussion about the prophecies is not helpful. Of course few students ever thought this things will happen, but it was taken as an exercise to focus on something. Also after all the postings of the scale of Roberts misbehaviour, why are their so few first hand descriptons considering that the school has still 2000 members and almost 10000 former members. Naturally some will be unhappy and give strong accounts about what happened. Don’t tell me I am buffering, I look at all sides and at this point the school is still a much better environment then most other places. I am open to an discussion, but please don’t attack since the underlying motivation must be wrong.
Henry Ford…author of “The Jewish Problem”. You know what cyclops..Get bent.
I agree Sheik is our best moderator…
He is not censoring anyone’s voice, and even though we have to be patient very often with one another, through the meanest or more challenging posts we can still grow and move beyond.
Thank you everyone for speaking here, this is a great forum even when there is plenty of friction.
To Laughing Love:
I am glad you found your freedom again, life out there is full of possibilities, we had to go through the very narrow gate of self denial in the fof.
It was not a school of love, that is for certain. A school of denial indeed! Promoting all the opposite of what it pretended to produce.
It is almost ironic!LOL!
I do not want to forget the dear friends in the fof either…
I met many sweet people there..but who remains stays at the price of their souls!
To Elena:
Thank you for your support.
You are very intelligent.
I love your posts.
Hi to All!
Re: Post 144. Phillipe McGuire is well and living in France. He’s currently on vacation. Not sure if he is aware of this site, but I’ll pass on the information. Just spoke with him last week.
I’m very grateful to the Sheik for bring us together. Loved the Memorial Day photos!!! And reading the posts.Hello to Sandra, Joel, Carl., and others! Hugs to you! I’ll write more when I’m done packing up this house. We’re moving.
AR
re. 163–Alice in — Comic Relief – always enjoy reading your posts. You quoted: Abraham Lincoln
“A man’s conscience tells him what he shouldn’t do – but it does not keep him from doing it.”
Interesting, don’t you think? What do you make of it? What Does ‘keep him from doing it’? There was a fascinating post on guilt (actually a couple) on a previous page – I wonder if there is a key in a person’s relationship with their own experience of guilt. Would that poster please make a comment?
This is precisely the type of inquiry I had in mind when recommending the info from What The Bleep-Rabbit Hole. The usefulness for me is that I began to apply the neuro-theory to my experience and to my worldview and I found that it opened up another window of vision upon the landscape, relative I know but non-the-less appreciated. I know for sure that I post without any propaganda motives. Thank you Bruce for the head-up. I am sincere as much as I was grateful for following my nose to the Fellowship of Friends so many years ago.
Believe it or not, I too have a degree of scepticism built in and from time to time it surfaces. Yet I repeat, this info from these Bleeping people seems to work. This is enough for me at this time. It is a quantum leap in acceptance of this tool for thought, though when even in today’s news release there is talk of more neurological discoveries which actually backs up their info. on peptides-receptors-etc. I may be a little slower, 7spadeslunarvenusian, but I have a lot of time so I will catch up. My motive is that there are others coming to me and my wife for help along the way.
Many thanks to all for this avenue to discovery. Please continue to provide all the positive energy possible because there is a lot of negative thought and negativety which must be transformed, which leads to more—–which leads to dis-ease. I know, negative expression, there is so much to learn by this machine. I do understand that this is not bad in itself, ie. was it not my realization (belief) that a teacher who was so often ill and students who were so often seriously ill had to be a sign that negative habits were not being transformed which helped be jump ship. Yes like many others I relegated this idea to the back burner (buffered) but a tree and its fruit, you know.
As an aside to the Fof doctors and Luis Diaz, my health is now perfect. Amazing, isn’t it?
One question to All. Is it really the good feeling of vanity which corrupts people with power and all the goodies that this power is attached to, their addiction to that good vanity-feeling and the other goodies, like orgasmic sexual pleasures which starves the body? Is it actually this which leads to all that illness by robbing the body of its nutrients and proteins in order to build more and more receptors which guarantee the continued supply of those pleasure-peptides? If that theory is correct, then no bloody (bleep) wonder that what is is (no pun). Joy and happiness to all and don’t sweat the wealth which necessarily follows. Actually if you sweat it you will resist or block it anyways. Talk about circular reasoning! Oh Well, Enjoy your day!
Renald Brisson, brjbrisson at yahoo dot com
To Student (217), “Of course few students ever thought this things will happen, but it was taken as an exercise to focus on something.”
Right. I’m sure that makes everyone who quit their jobs along the coast and — and who suffered serious consequences to their careers and finances as a result — feel much better now.
You wrote: “Don’t tell me I am buffering (regarding the allegations against Robert Burton).”
You are not buffering. My read is that you know exactly what has been occurring, and you understand exactly why people are concerned, but you just don’t care.
But let’s say I’m wrong, and you are buffering. Would you be concerned if say, “hypothetically”, you learned that Robert Burton was using his position as “teacher” to have sex with as many men as possible? Would that change your thinking about him?
to student # 217
“Of course few students ever thought this things will happen, but it was taken as an exercise to focus on something.” Wow, are you ever buffering!
Most students who chose to work with the prediction at all, took it as an exercise to work with the Teacher’s will, regardless of their own opinions. We had plenty to “focus on”, building the school and making enough money to make teaching payments. And there were plenty to truly believed (or pretended to believe) that the predictions would actually occur.
In our case, we tried to avoid the subject at the time, it was really kind of embarassing. We reluctantly attended a few ‘neighbourhood meeetings’. We bought an extra case of tuna and some medical supplies that we should have had on hand anyway.
But many students ran up huge debt because Robert told them “the banks will be under water, and you won’t have to pay off the debt, dear” – indeed I believe the Fellowship itself is stil paying off debt incurred before April 1998. The greed was sickening.
Then there were the students who, in following the task, gave up good jobs to move to Oregon House. I had a good friend who, after much agonizing, decided to “trust Robert and C Inluence”, took early retirement from her satisfying and secure professorship, giving up excellent benefits and good money. Following Robert’s advice/request, she built a house in Oregon House, going into more debt than she could afford as a retiree. The resulting stress of trying to make ends meet, running around doing pick-up work, perhaps contributed to her death last summer of metastasized breast cancer.
Dont call that “an exercise to focus on something.”
That’s insulting.
Sorry about the typos above, I guess I was a little perturbed…
In Memorandum
The Lawyer from Brownsville name was Douglas.
2 names from Israel are: Mathew (Moti) and Tzvikah.
Love, true love as it is referred to, is life energy. Without it, the body dies. So, imo, there is no controversy as to whether the school if a school of love. Either one decides to allow the full flow of love into and out of us towards something or someone or one allows negative thoughts, feelings, sensations, or emotions to resist and block it. The first leads to perfect health on all levels (physical, psychological, emotional, and instictive) and the habit (addiction) of the second possibility leads to disease and death. The only useful concern is whether we are individuals of love. ‘ Concern’ may be replaced by a more positive word. I had a good friend who was a real marshmallow. He didn’t speak the language of his community and in order to be accepted in school had to put on the cloak of the tough guy. It was a pretense, at first. They called him “Roughhouse”. He had to express negativety to carry out this role. He developed rheumathoid arthritis at a youngish age. Eventually he got addicted to the pain relievers and the resulting suffering led to a heart condition which gave him his next wish, absense of pain, absense of life. Not to belabor the point, another.
When I was in elementary school, another of my friends, Andy, who had amazing leadership qualities and charisma, a replica of The Fonz, and this was long before the tv series ‘Happy Days” existed, had a similar experience. He had to be harder than The Fonz, or so he manifested. Actually ‘hard’ is the word we all used. Now the brain is very literal. Andy started to develop a very rare dis-ease. His skin started It couldn’t breathe any moreto become hard. When it was hard enough, he died. I visited him just before. He was raising bunny-rabbits. I think he was 21.
Neither of these two friends allowed the love energy to flow through, well not in this lifetime. I would not for one minute doubt that my connecting with their signature energy and also Virginia’s provided me with the incentive to pass on this knowledge to you ALL here and now. I would not for one moment doubt that this energy is hovering above or inside of me right now, joyous for All.
Sorry Sheik, I didn’t know that I was going to be moved to add another post.
Hey Phillip MG Isn’t it great to be alive in France in the springtime?
Please i beg you if you have not previously looked at it take a look just click on the link. i beg you in the name of love and conscience. Please forgive the young man stuttering if i’d been through what he has i would too. please just click here.http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5587990522549547050
sorry after putting this in i tried to click on the link but it wouldnt work im going to try again but if it doesnt work click on it in post 166 you dont have to read the post just click on the link if you believe in truth.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5587990522549547050
Dear Student (217) you say “at this point the school is still a much better environment then most other places”. I just have to smile. “Most other places”? Have you really been to “most other places”? And how do you compare?
What a funny thing to say. I guess you haven’t traveled much, haven’t spent time with different people outside FOF or haven’t simply looked around with open eyes and open mind.
It’s like this famous devoted student phrase :”There is nothing out there!” Yeah right.
cyclops, it’s posts like yours that make me appreciate the value of having a moderator.
I can’t tell whether you are/were actually connected with the Fellowship of Friends, but it doesn’t matter. Your anti-semitic babblings, conspiracy theorizing, and insistent (3 posts?) linking to a video of a soldier talking about his Iraq experience are classic Troll behavior. Begone!
(I’m posting this with reservations, because I know any kind of attention only fuels your silly game. I’m calling you on your BS, and you won’t hear from me again.)
Dear “Student” – you wrote:
“Also after all the postings of the scale of Roberts misbehaviour, why are their so few first hand descriptons considering that the school has still 2000 members and almost 10000 former members.”
With due respect, you are saying because you don’t know about the extent of it, it must not be true. Try asking the right questions to the right people – a crime according to the fellowship – then, when the same answers inevitably come out, you will be unable to hold to that opinion.
The answer above all, is the “Code of Silence” – but also playing into this is servitude to “influence C”, and finally, belief, fear, belief, fear, belief, fear.
New FOF blog available. Unmoderated as long as on topic (racism is off topic).
http://fofgraduates.wordpress.com/2007/06/08/graduates-of-the-fellowship-of-friends/
#232 Graduates: We already have a blog. Why do we need another one?
#82 Newcomer
” Me and some friends who are members would be very gratefull if some of you who have been here from before can give us references of good posts.
Are you lazy?
“here is so much it is hard to read. If several people gave us their 10 favorite posts.”
Are you naïve?
There are more than ten.
Aline C.
Robert has lunches at the Apollo d’Oro with his entourage. Shining like the sun. The group walks down the hill to the cars and goes – you know where to do what.
At the reception after the dinner Robert stands up and walks away with his entourage – sometimes 20 guys! You know where to do what.
One can love the Teacher, be inspired by the hydrogens and enjoy his energy. One can believe that Robert is conscious being helping his students to become conscious. One can mind one’s own business…
But these scenes bother me.
Dear Sharon,
About the Laywer who lived in Bronsville and was shot when hunting.
Call John Bowen, he was there when the accident happened.
I forgot his name. Abe knows his name too.
Love to all of you and thanks for the Sheik and the blog.. what a job,thanks again.
To Cyclops, #227
“Please i beg you if you have not previously looked at it take a look just click on the link. i beg you in the name of love and conscience. Please forgive the young man stuttering if i’d been through what he has i would too. please just click ”
I would stutter as well IF I had been through what he described. The problem here is that this young man has been very convincingly exposed as a fraud, and the video as a hoax. You can get of it next to the video in the recent comments and get a more complete round-up on wikipedia. Are you always that gullible, cyclops?
This story illustrates how difficult it is to evaluate personal stories. You had to be there to know whether a story stands, or you have to use your ‘judgment’ (whatever that is) evaluating the story, in light of what you know of the protagonists and in light of independent, corroborating stories.
An example is Mathias previous post: “He was left alone and kick out by the FOF when he was sick. The sisters of the order of Mother Theresa took care of him in San Francisco.
His story is more than shocking, but it is up to him to tell it.
I remember Roberts comments about the mechanicality of Mother Theresa. But here was a man in need and his people were not willing to help, but the women from India did it. So much to the value of ‘friendship’ of the fellows in the school of ‘love’.”
The story is neat, fits the model of an uncaring FOF with the added detail of bringing Mother Theresa (scorned by RB on several occasions). The story gives a very biased view of the facts, as I witnessed them at the time. I will give Mathias the benefit of the doubt, assuming he got the story second hand or from PMG himself, but was not around Isis or San Francisco around that time.
Thank you, Alice in W (163).
“Action springs not from thought, but from a readiness for responsibility.” Dietrich Bonhoeffer
“Most of us follow our conscience as we follow a wheelbarrow. We push it in front of us in the direction we want to go.” Billy Graham
#230 and #233 Cathie, thank you. You are bright, concise and refreshing. It was a pleasure to see you at the reunion.
The Fellowship of Friends began circa 1970-1971 Do-Re-Mi (+)
(-) Fa-Sol-La (1979) Si (-) and the rest is history.
Cathie
#232 Graduates: We already have a blog. Why do we need another one?
if memory serves
#233 Cathie, thank you. You are bright, concise and refreshing. It was a pleasure to see you at the reunion.
>>>>>>>>
It is always a better situation when there is an alternative to the perceived monopoly, what if there was a viable alternative to the FOF? For one thing the operator of the alternative blog understands the work somewhat and is not hostile to it. You won’t have to buffer outbursts of false personality, or continuously stroke his ego as insurance. This is not for everybody, but there are hopes that Joelf, CharlesR, Sandra?, SharonM, Ames, Elena and so on (there are more), the people with some real mass ,come back and start giving the rest of us some genuine energy because that is what we are here for. Those that feel a loyalty to the “inner confusion” should stay here. There are no imaginary expectations that another octave will pick up, just hopes.
yes it seems i am very naive thanks for the info about the fraud but they cant all be frauds surely?
i feel quite silly actually, there are no comments on my you tube video so i checked out wikipedia as suggested and yep you appear to be correct.
Guess id better just crawl back under my rock. and stick to relating personal experiences from now on such as direct experiences with burton which no one can tell me werent true as i was there he has a short dick with a large knob on the end, how could i be so naive! as to believe him for one minute does cognac increase naivete? sorry folks who wasted time on that video. good luck. ( must be c inf humiliating me ) tee hee.
Hello to all of you beautiful people,
so nice to meet you again! Reading and participating to this blog is a profound experience that is helping so many of us to understand and heal and learn from our past. I am struck by the depth of understanding and compassion shown by many fellow bloggers. It looks like the FOF experience was a prelude to a healthier and fuller life for most of us! For the past week I have been reading your posts until my eyes hurt and I am really grateful for this opportunity to come to terms with a very crucial period of my life. After leaving the FOF my first priority was to move on and to create a new life for me and my family. I did not spend a lot of time thinking about what had happened, I just knew very clearly that my connection with the fellowship and its teachings had ended and I was happy to let it go. Now I see how many unexpressed emotions I am still carrying inside of me, how much I still love my old lost friends, how strongly these memories of long ago still affect me. So many people I forgot about, and what a shock to suddenly see their faces, hear their names again ! (by the way, I think you are aging graciously, don’t listen to spiteful and infantile comments on your looks.) I just desire to share my delight at this new twist of our collective play. I already loved the web and its amazing potential to connect people and ideas, but this beats any use I have had for it so far.
Love to all of you,
Laura Ottina (formerly Davis)
Susan T: I was especially moved by your post. I joined the FOF in Rome when you were center director and have very fond memories of you and Patrick. I am really happy to hear that you are well! It’s the quality of people like you that drew me to the FOF and one of the things that I still value most about that experience.
Ames: your insights were very helpful to me at the time I left the FOF, congratulations, I see you are keeping up the good work!
Why not more people have come out is a question to me. I asked a student who has been very close to Robert for years and he gave me a “beautiful ” story. Robert Burton of the fellowship of friends, said when he refused that it would not harm his evolution. I told this story to a 30 year ex- student and he said The student had told him that he had sex with Robert and had been Robert’s lover. I was puzzled and knew that somebody was lying???
What does this tell you?
1. Shame, ambarresed
2. Ask the Russian students, who are now around Robert. They have a hard time working in the gardens and the life around Robert seems preferable….They have a different back ground and according to my point of view a lack of conscience.
3. For some people sex is a good to barter for. Everybody his choice.
4. Some people aound Robert have a tendency for bi-sexuality. Fits this aspect.
5. Some people are depended on their visa and greencard bartering with sex (as said before.)
6. Some people believe the story that Robert needs hydrogen 12…precious semen. Sorry, it is unbelievable to me so do not react to me about this issue.
7. Power issues…Do not forget that ertain people are more interested in politics/ power…that is their nature.
8. Many have promised to be silent. No gossip or what ever and how they can silence their conscience.
9. Many other reasons which I can not think about.
There are so many people if you dare to ask and many will not be able to share the true although many blog pages ago I am not sure if it was “confused” who ran to her Russian friends who told her that the part of the sex was true.
Many of our friends call this homosexuality. I doubt if this is homo sexuality. When you want to hve sex with so many men and they are not homo sexual but preferable hetero sexuality I see an element of power. Elements of power lead to abuse.
Do you want this for yourself or children or grand children?
Do you want one of your daughters or grand daughters in a relationship with one of Robert’s boys?
Think ahead of time!
#242 cyclops. Didn’t you state twice before that you had better things to do and you were leaving. Please do.
#243 Laura
Hello to you , beautiful lady,
remember you in the kitchen,
hope you are well in your life.
In friendship.
Aline.
The lawyer friend from Brownsville’s name is Douglas Guthormson.
ah brucie baby!
nope i said no such thing it must be your imagination or wishfull thinking. you seem a little homo phobic dear.
“the only indication of genius i have is the amount of mistakes ive made” R B.
The main reason i post is to help others not to have to suffer the things ive had to suffer. My only regret is that i didnt start sooner .
“The psychiatrist knows only too well how each of us becomes the helpless but not pitiable victim of his own sentiments. Sentimentality is the superstructure erected upon brutality.”
Ulysses: A Monologue (1932) James Joyce.
I’d like to propose that uninformative language, rife with buzzwords and appeals to a commonality of experience, is a hallmark of Fellowship thinking and teaching. The basic allure of the message is: We share something important that nobody else knows about, and we are all in it together.
To take a few examples right from the blog: Howard Carter posted several quotes by Robert at 11/116, to illustrate how self-remembering is related to prehistoric pictures. Thank you. As Ames pointed out nicely, “their semantic content adds up to zero”. Yet, over the years, Robert has learned to use big words to disguise the basic (lack of) meaning. As one of my teachers once said, “Sounding impressive often passes for deep thought.” Take a look:
“The prehistoric tradition is the backbone of the esoteric.”
- Prerequisite: you have to believe that there is such a thing as a “prehistoric tradition”. Pre-pre-requisite: you have to believe that Robert Burton interprets the world objectively. Loaded words: the prehistoric tradition, backbone, the esoteric. Form of statement: A is B. Translation: “What I claim to be true is really very important.”
“Schools are indifferent to the form of the message, which is why we are able to understand the prehistoric.”
- Prerequisite: you have to believe in the tradition of esoteric schools as interpreted by Robert Burton. Pre-prerequisite: you have to believe that Robert Burton knows for a fact what other schools in the past have been like. Loaded words: schools, the message, we, the prehistoric. Robert Burton speaks in all-embracing pronouncements in order to give himself some validity and credibility, hence the use of “schools” when he means “I” and the use of “we” when he means “I”. Form of statement: A, therefore B. Translation: “I don’t care what it looks like, it always means the Sequence – and that’s why I can interpret anything.”
“A student asked why we are studying the prehistoric school, and I said that it is consistent with what we are doing – gathering the teachings of the schools before us.”
- This is beautiful. He re-words the question to provide an answer. Loaded words: the prehistoric school, consistent, schools. Form of statement: A because B. Note how you could leave out “consistent with” and it would still mean the same thing. The word “consistent” is there only for impact, to evoke positive associations of what you want to be like in your work. Translation: “We are doing this because it is part of something we are already doing.”
Similarly, if I look at the statement by King of Clubs, 11/193, 11/195, “Ex-members need to set up their own blog, because the octave has become too influential not to be householdered by one of us.” I can see this is still expressed in line with the Fellowship way of thinking. Loaded words: octave, influential, householdered, one of us. Translation: “I think ex-members should control the core of blog activity, because something bad might happen if ex-members are not the ones who control what is going on.” I don’t quite follow that reasoning.
The Sheik mentioned above how limiting work language is. One of the reasons is that it operates subconsciously. When Robert or students use phrases that you are familiar with, you automatically think they must be correct. Language is mostly a tool of the rational and logical mind, but it is being used daily to act on your instinctive and emotional functions. Of course we all know that, and we explain it by saying “Robert is centered in the King of Hearts”, so he speaks to our emotions. He sways the emotions. Holds people in fascination. If you want to look at what he is saying rationally, you will be immediately dismissed: “Oh, you’re so intellectual…” And we all know that being intellectual is baaaaad and unhelpful. We can only understand Robert by abandoning reason. Well, at least that much is true.
The Thoughts from the Teacher are full of eloquent formulations:
Put your cleverness away: mere words will never unite you to the state we are in. Kabir
In John 17:4, Jesus—the steward—said, “I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do”—I have completed the sequence. One of the most wonderful moments in our school was when we discovered the image of this prehistoric flute, dating to 34,000 BP. The flute, which looks like an obelisk, and represents the sequence, has four holes, representing the four wordless breaths. It is made from a vulture’s carcass, the vulture being a symbol of work ‘I’ number six, because it can soar effortlessly for prolonged periods at high altitudes. Quite interestingly, even though this flute is more than thirty thousand years old, it was found in 1939, the year I was born. Related to this, Ibn Arabi said, “God is one, unique, eternal, and perfect.” He names four attributes, like the four wordless breaths. (3-25-07)
But imagine if the Thoughts came to you neutralized, in the form of actual informative content and everyday language:
“Don’t be clever. You want to be in a higher state. Words won’t help.” (Kabir)
“I did what you told me to do.” (Jesus)
Robert: “This means Jesus is the steward and he used the sequence.
Some students found a picture of a flute that is 34,000 years old. I thought that was awesome and that it will benefit the Fellowship. The shape of the flute reminds me of an obelisk. The flute means the sequence. The flute has four holes, they mean four wordless breaths. The material used to make the flute was the bone of a vulture. According to me, a vulture means the sixth work “I”: a vulture and the sixth work “I” are similar in that a vulture flies high for a long time without effort, and it’s the same with the end of the sequence.
I find it fascinating that this flute was discovered in the same year as I was born (1939), and this seems surprising to me, because the flute is more than 30,000 years old.
I think this is related to what Ibn Arabi said: God is one, unique, eternal and perfect. The reason it’s related is because the things Ibn Arabi mentioned about God, are four, just like four wordless breaths that I talk about.”
Note how in the original Robert does not “own” his opinions. He projects them onto the School to become everyone’s opinion: “one of the most wonderful moments in our school was”, “a flute which looks like an obelisk” (yes, and a cigar among other things also looks like an obelisk, by the way), “being a symbol”. How much less convincing is it if I say “I think”, “this reminds me of” “it seems to me as if” – have you ever heard Robert speak like that? It’s strange, isn’t it? He can support the idea he is conscious because he sounds so sure of himself. People who sound sure of themselves sound like people who can be trusted. At least they know what they’re talking about, thank God.
I guess I have to mention the misappropriation of quotations that has been staring everyone in the face for years but has been justified as a means to a valid end. Robert wants to show us something valuable, so he uses quotes to make his point. Okay, he may tailor the quotes (and pictures) a bit to suit his needs, but the point is still fair, we say. Don’t you see what’s happening? He’s using anything he can get his hands on from any past authority to support his own fantasy, and we are asked to play along in the interest of a greater good. He is exploiting magical thinking in students who unconsciously believe in “greatness by association” – by placing himself in the same context with Kabir, Rumi, Whitman, or other people that you have found inspiring, he takes credit for your inspiration and will now reinterpret it for you so that you will understand it “correctly”. He creates these people in his own image. Some students are actually literally believing that the sequence has been known for 30,000 years and used by Buddha, Christ, Lao-Tze and the rest of them! (Other students who don’t believe it, live in a split personality.) Because we agreed to play along. Because it’s intended to make us more emotional. We allow the first step, we close one eye when he kind of doesn’t make sense, and it’s all downhill from there.
Do you ever hear Robert babbling? His thoughts running on in a perpetual non-sequitur? What did you feel when you read the part about him being born in 1939 and the 30,000 years of the flute? Is he making sense? Is that an expression of his consciousness which you are yet to fathom? Or of his fascination with himself and fixation on numbers?
A fixed idea is typically a decision or conclusion the person has made on his own at some point that has set up an automatic way of dealing with life. It is one specific idea that is regarded as having great value for the person, but which he isn’t conscious of using. He uses it as truth, and it appears to make everything right for him. It is a fixed, aberrated way of handling life. It is a way of being right. Often it involves making others wrong at the same time. The fixed idea makes a certain concept or behavior the right way, per definition. The person has a blind spot about the fixed idea. He doesn’t know he is using it. He is so confident about it that he never has to re-evaluate it. If he gets close to it by himself it just appears as obvious truth and he doesn’t look any further.
I think Robert has a fixed idea that angels are communicating with him through numbers, and some students (especially Girard) have a fixed idea that Robert is something called a “conscious being” and therefore his interpretations of the world are objective and true no matter what. But of course, real students know that it’s not just a fixed idea, because they happen to know that it’s true and it’s just that all those billions of life people out there are so asleep that they can’t see it. Of course.
But the original question was, what is the connection between keying ancient images and self-remembering? I never got it, obviously, so this is my speculation of how it happens. You are given an image, for example, a 15.000 year-old picture on a cave wall, and told that it represents ancient esoteric knowledge, exactly the same knowledge that the Fellowship possesses (5 deer heads over a black stripe = entering the 3rd state through the sequence of 6 steps and controlling 72 divisions of centers). Is it the sheer magnitude of the idea, that you are discovering something not understood by anyone else on the planet, that just makes you quiver and gape in awe, and then that brings you closer to self-remembering?
I wanted to look at some of the Newspeak produced by the Fellowship. And I’m not talking only about expressions like “the sequence” and “the steward” that you need a name for if you’re going to invent a concept and talk about it. It’s subtler than simple units of reference. It’s emotional. It penetrates the heart directly, and if you have learned to turn your head off as unhelpful to your evolution, it does not enter the mind to question the implications of promotional language. You repeat the set phrases designed to evoke a certain feeling, and eventually this becomes the only way you are able to express yourself.
“2006 was the year of the sequence, and what we accomplished in understanding the system exceeded all of our expectations.” –Robert
In the Fellowship, you are repeatedly told what you (we) are thinking and feeling and what state you (we) are in. I know all the arguments, it is only for our own good, and even if it’s not true yet, it’s to encourage us to really think and feel that way, to induce us to really manifest that higher state. Doesn’t that strike you as eerily similar to The Secret? Doesn’t it seem like a hypnotic technique? Maybe you think that’s really useful, but I find it incredibly manipulative and naïve on the part of the students. It works for producing obedient malleable smiling content people, and to me that’s a particularly high evolutionary achievement.
“Safeguarding the nine of hearts from drifting into imagination for fifteen seconds after you have completed the sequence is the greatest achievement in the universe.” –Robert, Jan 5, 2007
Once upon a time, we were told not to express ourselves in absolutes, because it would be lying. Robert, however, is not being grandiose, he is being conscious, so he really knows what he is talking about when he says “greatest achievement in the universe”. If our reason accidentally kicks in, we explain him away, and we say, well, he didn’t mean it that way, he has to speak like that to shake us out of our sleep, it’s supposed to be emotional and evocative. Right. Just like he didn’t really literally mean
“To make the machine conscious and immortal is the ultimate task, and to achieve this, everything is asked from us.” – Robert, May 17, 2007
Nowadays Robert doesn’t talk about predictions much publicly any more. He doesn’t have to. The core of his students have internalized the idea that the Fellowship is the last conscious school on Earth at the end of this civilization. Robert only needs to hint at it.
“The beautiful Egyptian artworks are sacred messages from the first school to the last school.” – Robert, January 2, 2007
Note the emotions contained in the “sacred messages” and “the last school”. It could make one cry. No wonder people become so attached to the Fellowship if it gives their life such a deep purpose in God’s grand scheme of things.
‘The sequence has the incredible privilege of associating with divine presence. By transforming the lower self we produce the pearl of great price – divine presence. Stay away from ‘I’s unrelated to your precious sequence; fast from lifeless, unconscious thoughts. When third eye is doing everything it can to escape from the tentacles of imagination and the diabolical control of the lower self, it does so with ‘Be’. What a mercy it was when they delivered the sequence to us; we can all be conscious beings now. All schools teach us the same thing – how to begin and complete sequences. It is critical to begin a new sequence as soon as the old one is exhausted.’ -Robert
Again, little actual informative content, mostly loaded phrases evoking imagery of a great, formidable, noble and epic battle between good and evil, spanning countless centuries, delivered fresh to your inbox every day for you to feel special about: “incredible privilege”, “divine presence”, “pearl of great price”, “precious sequence”, “lifeless thoughts”, “tentacles of imagination”, “diabolical control”, “delivered the sequence”, “conscious beings”, “all schools”…
But you have seen that presence is everything, and you insist that this is all about presence.
If that is so, dear Friends, please enjoy your wonderful and inspirational teaching events and intimate buffets for 30 with our Beloved Teacher, dining at cozy tables with special friends in gentle conversation, followed by charming concerts. Afterwards, you might wish to take advantage of the wonderful opportunity to take a beautiful photograph with our Beloved Teacher. Group discounts (up to 3 people) will be available. Cash and checks accepted. I also invite you to take part in the 2nd auction this year to resume construction of the Theatron – please help raise tens of thousands of dollars so we can share more moments of presence in this very special place. Purchase your tickets online. You will also have the pleasure of experiencing our newest dining venue at the Nile Garden Terrace. Treat yourself to a wonderful teaching event ($150 sitting, $75 standing) and enjoy the spectacular view (look with presence) before the event. Please move with presence on the Path of Presence as you walk up to the dining event with our Beloved Teacher.
With love and sugar-dripping presence,
–
“Four legs good, two legs baaaaa-tter.” – The Sheep
Before deciding to start his own school and making the dangerous mistake of hiding behind C Influence to justify his actions, maybe RB should have listened to some omens they tried to give him through Dirty Harry (Clint Eastwood) whose movies came out JUST around that time:
“He’s a legend in his own mind”.
“A man’s GOT to know his limitations.”
“This is a *44* magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and can blow your head CLEAN off. So the question you’ve got to ask yourself is, “Do I feel lucky?” ”
“Whom the gods would destroy, they first make insane” – Roman Proverb
#248 “The psychiatrist knows only too well how each of us becomes…” Carl Jung
You’re a fool. I’m done with you.
On the day of the earthquake in 1998 a large portion of our center in Moscow went to a cafe where the TV news were on, and sat there staring at the TV for many long hours, waiting to hear the news about the earthquake. I don’t remember if it was official “task” or if it was center directors initiative to do this. Earthquake didn’t happen, and we went home in awkward silence. We felt very confused.
I wouldn’t say that most people didn’t believe in predictions. To my observation most of us had mixed feelings – kind of not believing and also thinking: What if he’s right? Some truly believed, and some people I personally know did get hurt by it financially very badly… Robert said that he is “saving student’s lives” when he very strictly demanded that all students from Bay area take few weeks off their jobs and move to Isis, which for many resulted in loss of their jobs. It was for real, not metaphorical. I never heard Robert ever apologize for causing so much suffering and difficulty to his students and I was actually hoping that he would. He blamed it on c-influence, and didn’t take any responsibility at all.
Also, he hasn’t given up on this predictions stuff. Just in case you don’t remember, there were many, many “quake allerts” after 1998 in years to follow, when similar suggestions were made – not to fly to Bay area, get out of there during certain dates etc. Ask guys who lived in Galleria for a while how many times since 1998 they were preparing for the predicted quake, taking pictures off the walls, wraping fragile stuff to avoid breakage… This was not symbolic – this was very literal! Ask them – they may share some stories with you.
Last time I personally heard of another California earthquake warning was as recent as December 2006, I think the dates were 26 or 27 but I don’t recall exactly. It was delivered to me by a devoted “inner circle” student, and he said this news were intended for inner circle only… (Thanks for including me, by the way!)
So as you can see, RB’s obsession with prophecies is still going on. May be it’s uncurable. I have a feeling he is fascinated with disasters and death, somehow he tends to predict only “bad” stuff… How about some positive prediction, some good news for a change?
Traveler #249
“Language is mostly a tool of the rational and logical mind, but it is being used daily to act on your instinctive and emotional functions.”
Instinctive and emotional functions? Isn’t this FOF speak? Why pick and choose which brainwashing buzzwords you accept and reject, why not reject them all and the meanings behind them?
Of course I meant to say: “To me, that’s NOT a particularly high evolutionary achievement”. :)
“So as you can see, RB’s obsession with prophecies is still going on. May be it’s uncurable.”
He knows he’s surrounded by sheep. What does he have to lose? Many people are so invested, in one way or another, they will never see the emperor is stone ass naked.
11/253 “Instinctive and emotional functions? Isn’t this FOF speak? Why pick and choose which brainwashing buzzwords you accept and reject, why not reject them all and the meanings behind them?”
Yes, it is. I have thought about how to express this more clearly, so it would be universally understandable, but this was the best I could come up with. Obviously the consequences of brainwashing in me are still showing :) Can you help me say it in a better way?
253 We Won’t Get Fooled Again
Ordinary science has proved in later decades that man has at least three different brains with three different functions. Check previous posts in the blog and infinite material in the net )or go to talk to scientists): this will keep your little grey matter occupied in something a little more interesting than its own formatory doubts.
Traveler #254
“Of course I meant to say: “To me, that’s [NOT] a particularly high evolutionary achievement”. :)”
Ever heard of Sigmund Freud?
Traveler #249
“Language is mostly a tool of the rational and logical mind, but it is being used daily to act on your instinctive and emotional functions.”
(It’s not the scientific substantiation, stupid, it’s the “buzzwords”)
I mean…who is going to be persuaded by an argument against Burton’s brainwashing buzzwords when you have to use Burton’s brainwashing buzzwords to explain the psychological effect of the brainwashing? You’ve got something more to work out here, obviously, and it may be better keep quiet until you do.
This is all too silly.
11/258 We Won’t Get Fooled Again: Ever heard of Ad Hominem argumentation?
258 We Won’t Get Fooled Again
You obviously are having a hard day.
Rather than lashing out at others, it might be better to keep quiet until you are in a better mood.
We Were There #260
258 We Won’t Get Fooled Again
“You obviously are having a hard day.
Rather than lashing out at others, it might be better to keep quiet until you are in a better mood.”
You have a strangely low tolerance for what you consider “lashing out.” You mean any opposition to the general mindset that everything pointed out on this blog about Burton’s deficiencies is automatically intelligent?
Look, I hate to use a “brainwashing buzzword” but most of the discussion about the FOF on this blog is right off the bottom of the deck, right out of the negative half of the jack-of-hearts.
To Traveler regarding post #249;
Thank you so much for putting into words my exact feeling towards the Fellowship and the reason I left a few weeks ago.
I went to too many events where Robert told me what state I was in, and he was wrong. I scratched my head too many times trying to understand “Thoughts From The Teacher”, etc.
Your comments were all spot-on in my opinion.
257 Golb
I believe Howard Gardner pioneered this field in his Frames of Mind. The theory of multiple intelligences.
They are:
Linguistic intelligence (“word smart”):
Logical-mathematical intelligence (“number/reasoning smart”)
Spatial intelligence (“picture smart”)
Bodily-Kinesthetic intelligence (“body smart”)
Musical intelligence (“music smart”)
Interpersonal intelligence (“people smart”)
Intrapersonal intelligence (“self smart”)
Naturalist intelligence (“nature smart”)
An interesting read, and shows the FoF-type of explanations of intelligence embarassingly simplistic and shallow.
JoelF
#262
RB is right in not pointing out anymore what Ouspensky and Gurdijeff tryed to teach again in the west: that we are not lang and we are not even steven.
Our true identity is not the character with its personality and even essence, we are the divine presence to most of their moods and often contradictory feelings going on and on during the lifetime of the machinery.
At least having verifyed and remembering this knowledge changes the parameters to all the sense of I, me, my, in your post.
Robert is not wrong: he address an identity that if is not verified, grasped and remembered in the first years of work on oneself and on, there is no point in continuing the Work to unveil the Truth of our Real Self.
And then it is better to just live as best as possible the life of the semi-conscious vibrant character for what it is: it also deserve respect.
#263
Both of you missed :
Enigmatic intelligence (“crosswords smart”)
DaimlerChrysler intelligence (“Smart”)
Take nothing seriously but…..
Greetings from Paxse.
“Less Skepticism, More Optimism.”
steve lang
To Traveler regarding post #249;
Thank you so much for putting into words my exact feeling towards the Fellowship and the reason I left a few weeks ago.
I went to too many events where Robert told me what state I was in, and he was wrong. I scratched my head too many times trying to understand “Thoughts From The Teacher”, etc.
Your comments were all spot-on in my opinion.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I also just left yesterday, but after reading what Traveler wrote I’m going back in before I end up talking myself into a weirdly complicated state of self-satisfied idiocy. Thanks.
Eveyone is where they should be
Paxse
“The Absolute is pleased that this Tremendous Traveler (#249), sounding the divine BE of Reasoned Rationality, has wafted our Sacred School to Immortal Ideation”
-Robert Burton, tomorrow night, a bit tipsy after his fourth glass of prostate elixir and ad-libbing a toast.
For another brilliant post analysing Burton’s creative communications, see
http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-3/#comment-4058
from George Orwell – “Words are used as a mood-enhancer, or background — like Muzak, or wallpaper.”
Dear moderator:
Posts by ‘cyclops’ (Ex: 77) and others contain clear racist material that is completely irrelevant to any subject matter or context of this blog. Those who are posting such material are turning this blog into a platform for spreading anti-Semitism.
Since these posts are repetitive, it is clear that they are being approved by you as a moderator and they are regarded by you as a legitimate public material.
I am personally offended by these posts.
After getting legal counseling on this matter I would like to inform you the legality of such posts is questionable. Legally, in relation to publishing racism, this blog is no different from any printed newspaper or any other media and as a moderator you role here is no different than of a newspaper editor who is subject to lawsuits.
Dear moderator:
Posts by ‘cyclops’ (Ex: 77) and others contain clear racist material that is completely irrelevant to any subject matter or context of this blog.
Thos who are posting such material are turning this blog into a platform for spreading anti-Semitism.
I am personally offended by these posts.
Since these posts are repetitive, it is clear that they are being approved by you as a moderator and they are regarded by you as a legitimate public material.
After getting legal counseling on this matter I would like to inform you the legality of such posts is questionable.
Legally, in relation to publishing racism, this blog is no different from any printed newspaper or any other media and as a moderator you role here is no different than of a newspaper editor who is subject to lawsuits.
To Traveler (249 & 259)
I think you’re discussing good, old fashioned critical thinking skills, which, by necessity, a person in a cult neglects.
There are several types of logical fallacies. They include:
Ad Hominem: this literally means “against the person.” When a claim is rejected based simply on the person making it and not on the evidence the person has put forth, it is an ad hominem logical fallacy. The person, not the claim, is attacked. This happens quite a bit on this discussion board.
Slippery slope: Slippery-slope arguments are based on the idea that if one thing happens, then another thing will, then another, and another. Think of this as the “domino effect.”
Anecdotal Fallacy (also called a Hasty Generalization or Jumping to Conclusions): This is an inductive fallacy that occurs when one instance supports a general claim that is
not true. “I left the School and therefore everyone should leave the School.” OR: I am in the School and, therefore, any who is not should be.”
Mistaking Time for Cause and Effect: Just because one thing happened prior to another does not mean the first caused the
second, yet frequently people will argue just that. “When so and so left the School, the went bankrupt as a result.”
False Authority: When we trust authorities, we need to make sure they are authorities on what they are speaking to.
Either-Or Dilemmas: “It’s your choice — either be in the Fellowship or become moon food.” Are these really the only
two options?
Circular Reasoning (also called Begging the Question): This happens when an assumption is used to prove the same assumption is true. In other words, the conclusion simply puts the assumption in other words.
I teach this stuff and, in my observation, critical thinking skills are more and more rare.
I guess I thought it was interesting that, in general, one must constantly create logical fallacies in order to justify remaining in the Fellowship.
LL
To: We Won’t Get Fooled Again (253)
I’ve had the same thoughts.
I’m often surprised when ex-students continue to use the language.
Eventually I realized that, in part, some may still place value on the experience and don’t negate it all, which may or may not be “healthy”.
I think the last thing to leave me after I left the school were the silly superstitions.
LL
RB is a master salesman, and his product is ‘certainty.’
He promises that those who believe in and follow him are certain of a heavenly reward and that those who reject him are certain to burn in hell (explaining that those who leave do so because they want comfort, not spiritual development).
I see it differently.
In my view, ‘uncertainty’ is the reality of the human condition – in or out of the Fellowship of Friends – and uncertainty is not comfortable.
For thirty-five years RB has been selling his ‘certainty’ – and the comfort that comes with it. That comfort is the reason many stay members.
And quitre a few who don’t believe his promises any more continue to pay him as a kind of ‘insurance’ just in case he IS right. After all, “it’s only money, and what do I have to lose?”
This buffers the uncomfortable fact that supporting the Fellowship (even passively) lends it legitimacy and encourages the young, the new and the vulnerable to trust and to believe.
Most people on this blog are probably not familiar with the most recent teachings.
The teachings are one of the most important aspects to consider since they keep people in the school. 249 Traveler gives some idea of what is going on.
But for those of you on the blog who haven’t been in the “school” for the last four years the teaching has changed course away from Forth Way and Ouspensky and G no longer serve as the foundation. Much of the teachers ideas and terminology have also changed as well, e.g. you rarely hear about Leonardo anymore.
My recollection is that soon after a meeting on “know thyself” personal angles were not considered for Sunday meetings and the teacher started delving into the Sufis and the bible among others. Students were asked to stop reading forth way material and the teacher went in a new direction.
During this period Girard seems to have become marginalized (a few Giradites- ardent followers of Girard still follow his struggles to interpret the new teaching with the desperate hope of making sense of it in forth way terminology.) and a new being Asaf has been developed to replace Girard. Asaf has been pivotal in helping Robert establish the new teaching. Rumor is that he is conscious, but like Girard in days of old he denies it for now.
Anyway, the new teaching advocates that the idea that being present is ancient and goes back to prehistoric times and that is part of some secrect message carried on by schools. the Fellowship is the last school in humanity and its job is synthesize the info. from all other schools, e.g. sufis, gothics, christians, moslems, jews, egyptians, prehistoric peoples, etc.. The teacher got a windfall of material from Egypt, and the “school” took several trips there to study Egyptian art and architecture. During this period the teaching became more arcane and dogmatic. Everything was related to presence, or the sequence. The teacher is constantly is telling everyone we are present, and the school has been a money making frenzy for the last few years pushing students to give as much as possible and buy raffle tickets, auction items etc. The property was developed to a large extent during this period as well and the teacher become more inacessible except during paying teaching events. Several prominent students also died during this time. The property was reanamed to Isis and many world class ballets were performed in a newly made greek theatron. The winery is no longer a focus.
–
Getting back to the teaching, the main point is this idea called the sequence. The sequence is a series of six syllabus used to introduce and prolong presence. I it goes something like this (coordinate with your breathing)
1) Be
2) Hold
3)subject e.g. look, taste, feel, hear, etc.
4)back e.g. go back to presence
5)subject
6)long Be e.g. be present
You are supposed to repeat this until you are present. When you are present, you stop because it is the Sabbath. You no longer need to seek because you have found. For worldess breaths.
—
The sequence seems to be a form of prayer to protect you from being possessed by the devil (King of Clubs).
The devil is the king of clubs (a direct key illustrated in numerous pictures and text by the teacher)
The steward as the nine of hearts, an angel that brings the keys to heaven by helping you to promote presence(world twelve).
Imagination is keyed as evil. Sin. To be in imagination is to be in a state of sin. To be possessed by the devil.
Many students say that someone is “possessed by their king of clubs” if they question the teaching, have thoughts about putting their interests above the schools, or if they leave the school.
——-
Basically if you are not using the sequence…(prayer)…you are sinful..(in imagination)…and therefore possessed by your lowerself..(the devil)…if you do not become present…(in a redeemed state…heaven)…you will forever be asleep…(in hell).
—-
Basically, the “school” seems to be a version of fundamentalist Christian religion put into a more exotic package.
Personally, I do not buy the claim that the teaching is a new way, or a veiled reference, to the system. Some students insist the teacher is not being literal, and this the king of clubs, devil for example is just a metaphor for lower self, etc.
If you actually attend teaching events, pay to watch the numerous DVD’s at center events, or read the weekly thoughts from the teacher it is stretch to say these ideas are a metaphor and they are presented in a deadly serious manner as some of the most important ideas in the history of schools. This does not seem to be the system dressed in new clothes. It seems to be religion.
I would like others familiar with the current teaching to comment on this interpretation.
There is no need to separate the work ideas from the Fellowship because neither is necessary, nothing is wrong. No one is going to the moon. Life is good, God is great and death will be nice. Don’t worry, be calm, stay calm, there is no need for more consciousness than what we have now. Put it all out of your mind. I’m OK, you’re OK. OK? Everyone agree?
Dear friends.
A definition of identification or attachment as something one just cant let go, one cannot resist. Whenever that subject comes up one simply has to respond.
Take heed that no man decieve you. Mathew 24:4.
re: #271
Sheikh,
You might pay attention to this post. This may be a preliminary warning to a legal challenge by the FOF.
Moon Angel 275
It appears that Burton is completely nuts, but then there is all that money. Could a crazy man really make himself that wealthy by simply talking?
Laughing Love (272):
Thank you for posting that short course in critical thinking.
These techniques have been around since at least Roman times and were taught as one of the 7 disciplines, called Oratory. It is humbling to realize that the Roman senators knew the same verbal “sales techniques” over 2,000 years ago that we are still using, wittingly or nit-wittingly, on this blog. It appears human nature hasn’t changed much, only the trappings.
And why is this not taught as a major subject in our schools? In an increasingly global consumer society, probably the last thing the “sellers’ of both consumer goods and “consumer ideas” wish to promote is critical thinking.
Seems like humility and wisdom grow from relentless observation and unflinching integrity.
Haven’t we learned that we don’t have to be right; and, to take care when we’re too sure about what we know?
Mary Oliver’s NEW AND SELECTED POEMS, Vol 1
Pema Chodron’s WHEN THINGS FALL APART
To: Truth is Where You Find It
Yes, it is amazing that these ideas have been around for so long.
I guess they really are just cheap saleperson tactics.
It’s amazing to really realize how mundane cult tactics are.
You’ll be happy to hear that I teach at the college level & attempt to teach critical thinking skills in all courses.
Admittedly, it is amazingly challenging.
Teaching how to address counter-arguments is particularly difficult because my students cannot believe that they should profoundly consider the opposition’s point of view in order to arrive at clear conclusions and, therefore, strengthen their own argument. Instead, they want to ignore the opposing viewpoints and wish them away rather than conceding points and addressing them head on with the courage of their well-informed convictions.
Again, my observation of some of the interactions on this board in which one wishes to argue a point, are very silly and ineffective because persons, particularly Fellowship students, but including ex-members, don’t directly address points offered by the “opposition”.
Instead, they say something in a babyish fashion, like, “Nuh, uh. You’re stupid.”
Or they use sarcasm, which is funny (NOT), to address what may be a well posed question or comment.
Sorry for the Ali G (Borat) reference. He is a master at exposing the sleeping machine. He’s awakened hundreds with his humorous tactics.
For godssake, Sacha Baron Cohen (who plays a number of hilarious characters) wakes us all up in a flash with his comic genius. I wish he could secure an interview with Robert Burton.
Does Robert give interviews?
LL
A comment about the universal language (work words) of the Fourth Way.
“There is no word used in this system that does not refer to a distinct idea with tremendous meaning. When you have built into you the ideas of the work as a receptive organism—not in your external life-serving man, through outer superficial thought, but in your inner real, essential man, through seeing and feeling their truth privately, especially in your most lonely moments—then the ideas behind your words will be similiar to the ideas behind the words of another person in the work who understands the work as you do. So you have a common language. And this shews you who is your neighbour in the esoteric sense. It is necessary to “love your neighbour—not from mechanical but from conscious intercourse. And so you begin to understand one another—a most extraordinary experience. Then everything becomes quite different in regard to relationship to others. You all have the means. What do you make of them—that is, apart from mechanical impact with each other, which one must observe”?
Maurice Nicoll, Fourth Way student writing in his “B” influence books, “Psychological Commentaries volume 3.
“…you are content to live as drudging money suppliers for an evil authoritarian fag…”
I guess gay bashing is in, huh? What if it read:
“… you are content to live as drudging money suppliers for an evil authoritarian Jew fag…”
Any takers?
#284
Unbelievable.
249 Traveler
Interesting post! I enjoyed reading it
283 arthur
“universal language (work words) of the Fourth Way.”
I want to echo that these “work words” were invented to try to create a more objective way of communicating these ideas.
I remember the guy who sold the Oregon House grocery store was once asked by the local paper if he thought the FOF was a cult. He said if you got 5 members in a room they wouldn’t be able to agree on anything!
285 Bruce.
Mechanical.
Does Caligula’s Isis now contain a mini-enclave of supremacists, or just one cowardly, very screwed up individual?
#251 BruceBruce
“You’re a fool. I’m done with you.”
Ditto.
Shiek,
Please edit these vulgar posts.
They are childish, horrid and oh so painfully boring.
I appreciate it.
Moon angel
To #270 To the moderator
I think you should seek new legal counsel and stop making your not-so-subtle threats against the Sheik (note the subhead to this group title: “Free Speech is a Dirty Business”). While cyclops’s post #77 is written in a provocative manner, and is frankly, rather adolescent and (yes) moronic, it certainly does not cross any lines as far as free-speech expression laws in the USA and most of Europe, that I know of.
In fact, the poster states he has no hate for jews or gays.
I am not defending or supporting cyclops or his opinions, but I will defend his right to express them.
He is obviously trying to stir up the pot on the blog, much in the way LOL and @$^&#), or whatever his name is, who have posted personally insulting and idiotic, posts addressed to specifically named people. I could be personally offended by some of these posts, but I understand, that every fool is entitled to their opinion, as long a no threats of violence or slanderous lies are published.
By the way, what relevance to any subject matter or context of this blog, does your post have? Were you or are you in FOF? If you have been following this blog, you surely have noticed what a free-for-all of personal opinion this blog is. In most free societies, this is considered free-speech, no matter how “personally” offensive.
Posts by ‘cyclops’ (Ex: 77) and others contain clear racist material that is completely irrelevant to any subject matter or context of this blog.
Thos who are posting such material are turning this blog into a platform for spreading anti-Semitism.
I am personally offended by these posts.
Since these posts are repetitive, it is clear that they are being approved by you as a moderator and they are regarded by you as a legitimate public material.
After getting legal counseling on this matter I would like to inform you the legality of such posts is questionable.
Legally, in relation to publishing racism, this blog is no different from any printed newspaper or any other media and as a moderator you role here is no different than of a newspaper editor who is subject to lawsuits.
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Just how uneducated to you imagine people are? There is a constitutional right to express racial slurs, prejudices and so on. Americans have a right, and many Europeans too, to be as openly ignorant and as ugly as they like and there is no criminal and little civil recourse. You can say it, print it and make movies promoting it here in the United States of America and most countries of Europe. You need to get much better legal counsel.
What you could go for is a violation of terms of service with the blog provider and have the blog deleted, at best.
Dear Sheik, after few recent immature and simply stupid posts I have a whole new appreciation for your moderation effort. I only wonder how many of those did you have to read/delete per day?
I do enjoy the “real time” format very much, but – PLEASE, guys, can we keep it civilized? Must we post mutual insults and racist stuff? Must we react with more insults? What’s the point?
Peace
Yesterday I was on a flight from San Francisco to Frankfurt. Sitting next to me was a lady who I got into conversation with. She is a Professor of Archeology at Berkeley and when I ask her what here specialty is, she says ‘the cave paintings found in Southern France and Germany”. She is on her way to France to conduct a tour party through the caves. “Hmmmmm”, I think to myself, having been reading about RBs comments on this subject (such as posted by HC in 11/116).
So, confessing my ignorance, I ask her what they are all about. She tells me they are clearly of spiritual significance. For the most part they are pictures of horses and bison, which are not the animals which they hunted and ate. Seems these caves are way deep in the ground. Very dark, No light. No sound. Maybe just the sound of a water drip. Spending hours or days down there in there and would produce different states of consciousness. (Made me think of Tibetan monks sealing themselves off to meditate). Perhaps the paintings were there to help the spiritual teachers of that day communicate their insights with the members of the community.
I suppose RB’s comments on poop are what have made many of this think that he has gone quite of his rocker. So I ask her if she knows any spiritual significance to depictions of the animals defecating, or the number of turds. To my surprise, she was not perturbed by this question at all. She says she does not know of any significance, but would not rule that out. To her, there were many spiritual worlds. We view the past though the lens of our current experience and this can be very limited. Further, in hunting societies, animal droppings do play an important part in finding and tracking the creatures. Also, archeologists are the kind of people who do study these kind of remains. Well, clearly not a ringing endorsement for the sequence or whatever, but she did not pooh-pooh the spiritual significance either (tee-hee)!
It leaves me kind of curious about these cave paintings. I even asked her about how to go about visiting the caves to take a look……
Chortle Mortal
In post #88 dated June 7, Sheik said:
“Free speech is a dirty business but I try to give it free reign. I have been deleting comments before, in the next couple of days you may come to realize what kind of comments I have been deleting (I won’t delete anything for a short trial period) and for what reason. Yes, there are some disturbed/disturbing characters among us.”
Perhaps the insults and racist stuff is what Sheik has been deleting until very recently.
Enjoy your weekend Lovers!
May the frog be with you.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=750885876
Love to you all.
#293 No Person
“Must we post mutual insults and racist stuff? Must we react with more insults? What’s the point?”
Auntie Em! Auntie Em!!
The point is this: If you are/were a student you would have seen that there were two things going on here: One: a level of identification at work. Identification with words. The words themselves are neutral, what gives them power are our own identification with them.
Also, Two: there was the “photographing” of the identification.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Although some people wish to turn the forum into a mutual admiration society, like the FOF, all smiles and nicety and falseness, some of us wish to just let the machine react and watch the play without trying to change the script into a politically correct response.
Its probably a deeper level of work you have never heard of….
Dear Traveler,
I have read all your posts with interest. Thanks for it all. Your contributions, along with many others, help me very much. I wish I knew you. I am at least glad you are out there in my virtual world.
Re: your last post: many thanks.
You deconstruct “charisma” to its unexciting components. You identify the linguistic mechanisms that subjugate intelligence & critical thinking. You help reveal the basis of an emasculating & demeaning obsession with an abusive & exploitative man.
An aspect of Robert’s pageantry is language & gesture; he animates his version of the mythology of “Awakening” (with all its supporting constructs: “Conscious School”, “Conscious Teacher”, “Conscious Knowledge”, “Work on oneself”) by deliberate use of gesture & language: a kind of theatre.
For a year after leaving the FOF, I was mired in questions such as:
“Might Robert be a little bit conscious?”
“Could the FOF be a little bit good? real?, purposeful?”
“Was there a little value in the whole experience?”
“Maybe it works for some people”
(I now see these same themes agonized on the blog among ex-members who strain to save themselves from the terrible possibility that the school is not “real” – all a deception.)
After more distance & time, I can say, in answer to all those questions, NO NO NO!
Time & distance mitigates the sense of my own folly and reconciles the guilt, embarrassment, waste, regrets. I no longer need to find any value in the experience that might justify all the real losses over the years.
And now I can say it: the whole phenomenon of the FOF is an illusion. Yes, Robert IS delusional & dysfunctional; Robert has nothing – not even maturity or common capacities. Even worse, he can appear sincere because he is susceptible to his own delusions.
My path out of the School has lead me way beyond a susceptibility to any spiritual products & packaging. I now perceive the notions of “awakening”, “spiritual path”, “school”, following a “teacher” to “enlightenment” as a grand mythology that attracts specific types of people with predictable, identifiable dependencies & personality characteristics (well researched & documented).
I am one such person.
Most long-term students probably are.
Most long-term members of any similar spiritual groups are probably driven by the same difficulties and compensatory mechanisms as long-term FOF-ers.
On a societal scale, nothing extraordinary has happened here – the phenomenon of the FOF is commonplace & predictable. You can’t prevent groups like the FOF from appearing. There will always be types like you & me & Robert.
Traveler, ignore bloggers that strain to find fault with your exposition. By identifying the few (perceived) anomalies, they implicitly validate the remainder. By attempting (they hope) to invalidate the entire analysis on the basis of these perceived anomalies, they appear petty-minded & reveal their own tensions. Anyway, I can tell from your posts that you are in no need of my reassurances.
#294 Holy Shit
Hmmmmm. The idea of the paintings as a document from ’schools’ is something Gurdjiev said, actually. If you read “Idiots in Paris” by Bennett’s wife you will find many references to their trips to the caves in France.
I do remember G. commenting on the number of horns on the head of the animals indicated their level of being. Don’t think he mentioned the poop….
I don’t mind the longer well-thought out and spell checked posts of others, in or out. As RB would say, keep ‘em coming. I can do without the conspiracy theories with racist overtones…although I can vouch for Cyclops’s accurate description of a certain notorious member…and can understand the wide range of mind numbing emotions one might experience processing one’s twisted experiences with one’s spiritual master.
Traveler #249 Thanks for your post. I think you’ve made a valiant effort at uncovering the subtle manipulation of a person’s belief system through clever use of language. Finding the terminology to express what goes unsaid or implied is inherently difficult.
I also have been mulling over Robert Burton’s quotes that the former life person, Howard Carter, so humbly provided.
RB: “The prehistoric tradition is the backbone of the esoteric.”
This quote gets my dander up for other reasons than you cite. We can conclude that the teacher, Robert Burton gets an “F” on the subject of prophecy, ‘c-influence’ needing to ‘humble’ him (by his own admission and in a surprising way), indicating to me and hopefully others that ‘c-influence’ does not seem to have a very high regard for the dude.
I wonder what ‘humbling’ c-influence has up its sleeve for him vis á vis his current penchant for gandering into the past. I gather that with ‘the prehistoric tradition’ (hindsight always being 20-20 vision) he is less subject to getting his ‘interpretations’ wrong. We can forgive speculations about the historical past more easily than about the future when lives are hanging in the balance.
RB: “Schools are indifferent to the form of the message, which is why we are able to understand the prehistoric.”
Meaning his intellect is whore to his delusion of grandiosity. He (his school of thought) has a theory about the ‘sequence’ and sets about fabricating historical or esoteric ‘proof’ to support the ‘theory’ indifferent to any ‘form’ or scholarship. Gee, I wonder, are his ‘researchers’ biased or neutral? Reminds me of cooking the ‘intelligence’ data to get us into Iraq…
Countless nefarious scientific theories, some intricately more well thought out and researched than his ‘sequence’ theory have risen, become the status quo, faltered, and promptly gone extinct, as I am sure his will in due time. Once the world was flat, and the earth was center of the universe.
I think that deep down RB knows he has relied on the borrowed teachings of others and the sequence is his last ditch, vain effort to leave his mark. His true sordid legacy will likely be less subject to FOF spin or propaganda.
RB: “A student asked why we are studying the prehistoric school, and I said that it is consistent with what we are doing – gathering the teachings of the schools before us.”
This statement uses the device of presupposition. One must presuppose there was such a ‘prehistoric school’ in the first place and secondly, that the FOF is also a ‘school’ in a tradition based upon some sort of lineage. Once you are onboard with the belief that the FOF is a school then by default you are also onboard that the teacher sets the agenda ‘consistent with what we are (I am) doing’. There is little room for argument or debate. You are either with us or against us. Now where have I heard that before?
Laughing Love # 272
Thanks for your well informed post, too. If I could redo my college major, it would be the fascinating study of rhetoric. Language is the key to thought. There is indeed a dearth of critical thinking today.
More history needed? #244
“When you want to have sex with so many men and they are not homosexual but prefer hetero-sexuality I see an element of power. Elements of power lead to abuse.”
It dawned on me that Robert might prefer (or in the past preferred) straight, young, male paying members of his religious community because they are less likely to talk about it later out of shame, guilt, or embarrassment. It took me 22 years to be able to discuss the subject as openly as I have and break the code of silence. The experiences make a lasting imprint, as others in servitude will agree.
Dear Exlax,
Yes I’ve never heard of such deep levels of work, and frankly not interested. I am kind of done working, sorry.. It’s play time now.
Yes, it’s fine to just watch it all – the play, machine, reactions etc. It’s all has it’s life, it’s existence. I just naturally enjoy politeness more than rudeness, just like I prefer sweet smells to awful stinks… It’s all natural, all happens, but some stuff is more pleasant you know. I am not big on intentional suffering. If there is a skunk stink – I naturally want some fresh air…
Niceness is not always false, and words are not always neutral…
dear sheik,
if there is any meaning in this blog for informing current members and potential members it’s getting lost right now. Just read the last 100 posts. Without a specific aim or interest, one would not continue reading them. A spiritual interested person would probably be put of right away. I am a current member and still believe in the school and Robert (with some relativity by now due to your blog), but I also think the school should be able to stand this criticism. So please provide this for me and all others you want to save.
#296
Exlax 101
“Although some people wish to turn the forum into a mutual admiration society, like the FOF, all smiles and nicety and falseness, some of us wish to just let the machine react and watch the play without trying to change the script into a politically correct response.”
Very astute observation.
This blog has now its own momentum, kind of unbelievable that approximately two thousand people seem to be tuning in daily to take a look…quite a few people posting, for different reasons, not just one specific aim, and I doubt very much the sheik is trying to save anyone! Ain’t gonna happen on this blog!
People are looking for different reasons, but one is for sure, check out if there is something juicy going on!
Thank you for the memorial list.
Does anyone know what has happened to David Guido?
So many lost friends Dorothy was in the San Diego center
when I joined the FOF. I think she had a dance school in escondido. The directors were Jan Allen and John Graham.
I slept in a sleeping bag for months in the living room of the Lincoln Lodge next to Doris Elizibeth. her only comfort was to use the couch instead of the floor.
Randolph with his beautiful voice,
I remember his leading the choir in Bach.
I shared a house in Costa Mesa with Neal O’Brian.
Mildred Smith was the center director in Phoenix with Vincent when I went to open that center.
Also thank you for the photo’s of the get together. Yes a bunch of normal unpretentious people.
#283
“No syllable of the thirty work ‘I’s doesn’t refer to a word used in the system which in turn refers to a distinct idea with tremendous meaning…… etc.
Thanks Arthur
(from someone that has read and studied all the commentaries in its own times. BTW do you have an E-Texts of them?)
To Laughing Love (282):
I did not mean to imply that the logical falacies/types of oratorical argument that you describe were merely “cheap saleperson tactics”. They probably evolved over time from very astute observations of human nature and were seen as clever ways to derail critical thinking by pressing the right emotional or intellectual buttons. There must be something to them since they have survived intact for over 2,000 years and are as effective now as ever, especially on those who do not realize they are being duped.
Law students may know them by their Latin names, which have even appeared as episode titles in famous television series like the West Wing: Post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this, therefore because of this) See Wikipedia link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc .
The advantage of knowing the logical fallacies is that 1. They allow you to see when they are being used on/against you 2. They keep you from lapsing into one by mistake, and 3. more deviously, they allow you to use them against your “opponent” in the hope he doesn’t catch on – until its too late.
I remember the famous scene in the 1963 movie Cleopatra where Roddy McDowell, playing the Roman consul Octavian, works the senators into a frenzy against Egypt. He picks up a javelin and says, “Where is Egypt? Show me the way!” The senators all point in the direction where they think Egypt to be. But McDowell, knowing the Egyptian ambassador is standing only 10 feet away, slowly pivots around, faces him and says, “NO! THERE is Egypt!” and hurls the javelin straight into his chest and kills him.
From the lynch mob to a president convincing Congress to give him war powers – its all done using the ancient techniques of oratorical argument – logical fallacies or not.
Sun Tsu, in The art of War, wrote:
If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will win one hundred times in one hundred battles.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you will win one and lose the next.
If you do not know yourself or your enemy, you will always lose.
I am encouraged to hear that you are trying to teach your college students critical thinking, since we are bombarded by, and have access to, more forms of propaganda today than ever before.
300 No Person Is Going To The Moon
Folks!!! Jews have taken over America. That’s the real awakening you need going after.
I don’t give a shit about this esoteric discussion. I used to live next door to this land called Apollo (that I see now changed to Isis). I know from a reliable source that Burton is a half Jew. Both Jew & queer. Mother f—er that explains it all. All the people in charge were Jews. Cyclops I can see you are the only guy here who is standing for truth. It is all coming on us by these Jews. Henry Ford was 100% right. I urge you all to read the “The protocols of the elders of zion” there you’d find real truth about the global Jewish plot.
308: this kind of post would be deleted at:
http://fofgraduates.wordpress.com/2007/06/08/graduates-of-the-fellowship-of-friends/
To Bruce
you misunderstood me if you thought I was justifying Robert’s behavior. He is a criminal. I was refering to judging the whole FOF as criminal because of his actions. I read through the Canon’s of the FOF and it seems obvious, at least to my perception, that he intentionally used the form of a religion because of the special status given to freedom of religion in the U.S. The Canon clearly states that it is an element of faith in the FOF that Robert is a conscious man defined as “The Teacher” with a unique status. He cannot be removed. In this sense it is no different than Christian’s recognizing Christ and the POpe as God’s voice on Earth., Robert simply had the for thought to understand how much better this was in term’s of control and personal freedom for him than a corporation. And he got it in a written contrac. Disagreement or questioning of this is cause for dismissal from the group. It seems like he copied much from the Mormon’s. I also feel rather strongly that the people who agreed to this document and structure would not have done so if Robert had let it be known that he was gay and intended to engage in promiscuous activity.
Post #14 Joe Average many excellent points. I also agree with those who state Robert is not conscious Robert never became man #5 he mistakenly imagined himself as becoming conscious when he experienced higher centers. This does not indicate man #5 but man #4. It is normal results of efforts to self remember to experience higher centers.
One angle is in relation to the post that described the “King of Club’s” as being able to recognize truth. I remember walking with Robert one night at the Arizona Biltmore Hotel about 1977 whenever it was he had said he would crystallize and become a man #5 that day but later said it didn’t happen. I always remembered this night when later I heard he was gay and having sex with students.I wondered why he did not push it, that is invite me in, although I believe he shared a room with his drivers. Maybe Tom Easely and Peter Bishop. I now wonder if it was a bit of common sense in either his King of Clubs or mine.
In post #17 Beyond writes “If one has experienced love and consciousness through having sex with the teacher, and even if the teacher has sex with many other people, then I see nothing wrong with this.We put too much attention on the subject of sex. Because it is taboo in many puritan countries. Many people lack a decent sexual education, and are afraid of anything “abnormal”. I think living in the darkness of illiteracy is creating ones own “sexual predator”.
This is poorly thought out. Pure wiseacring. Read Bradshaw if you are interested in changing your own illiteracy in regard to sexuality. There is absolutely no way to justify an advanced psychologist such as Robert claims to be creating such an abundance of negativity surrounding sexuality. Sex, the sex center, has the capacity to blend with and affect all the other centers. In our sexuality we experience a reflection of our being. Negative sex needs ever increasing experiences. In the FOF there is not enough of a free flow open discussion of sex. Without this there can be no real conscious school.
I agree with those who say it is through the students not just the teacher that the FOF can be called in any way conscious. The line of conscious development is not a one way process emanating from the teacher as Robert stresses but just as much more from the efforts of the students
I also wonder who developed the initial model for the FOF methods. I know some methods were similar to Essalyn. Does any one know?
It is too bad that the level of being of the former FOF members is not up to having a real working group based on the model of 12 step group’s. No teacher, no owner ship of property, all decisions by group conscience. No membership payments but self supporting.
Almost all of the early students who achieved a level of individual development were chased out. Robert is a master beauracrat. His dominance feature controls every aspect of his environment. I spent a good bit of time around him. Observe him for a while from the point of view of features, type, alchemy, center of gravity. Is there anything not mechanical. Has any one ever seen him do something mechanically uncomfortable? Rub dirt on his face? wear old sneakers? volunteer to eat at a food kitchen just for the consciousness? While I was on the Farm David Guido had a compost pile, I never saw Robert helping there. Someone said he would spill a glass of water to illustrate mechanicallity did any one ever see him spill wine on a Hermes tie to illustrate non-identification?
Beyond also writes “Very few are interested in real experiences of Higher States of consciousness and the struggle of achieving them. Most are preoccupied with illusory experiences of resentment and betrayal.”
This is the classic FOF feature of arrogance and vanity. How do you know what anyone else is experiencing? If I call you an ignorant butt head son of a syphilitic whore How do you know I am not using intentional insincerity to imitate a negative response by outwardly manifesting what to many is simply a normal response to unmitigated crap. Your still justifying a cock sucking gay predator as a “higher being”. Gurdjieff described a feature of “no shame” It is interesting that Robert and through him the FOF do not even recognize this feature.
Alice in wonderland states
“I experience conscience as a deep understanding that all human beings are suffering because they are asleep.” That’s fine I don’t experience this. It is too abstract for me. There is an inherent weakness in trying to describe a higher emotional experience. Any emotional state is much richer and diverse than the intellect can conceive. Part of the intelligence of the emotional center are its speed and ability to see more than one aspect of something simultaneously. To me part of conscience is compassion. This is not the same as a mechanical state of pity. I call it compassion when I experience myself reflected in others. This is part of remembering myself in its simplest sense. When I see something in othersexoerience the memory of my own mechanical actions there are some mechanical things in myself that I have experienced for years. This is an important part of what I call conscience. I call it the realization of my own sleep. This in my experience is the single most important factor in being more awake. But on another scale conscience is described as a sense of right action in a specific circumstance. This part is connected to ideas of right action as thaught in Taism and Buddhism.
I have to reply to all those who one way or another connect Robert, FOF and the system. To me it is the system and the many individual contributions of those sincere students both those who were there for me and all those others that did their best to be the words that are the consciousness of the school. This is the soul of the school. The list of students who have passed brought me many memories of individuals who made real efforts to be there for me. It is an insult to their efforts and memories to negate the reality and value of their work. Theories in the end are just empty words. People are real. Payment is a principal. Robert has distorted this out of all proportion with his insatiable demands formoney. Payment is a principal also means that results are also a principle or law.. No effort is wasted.
Robert and the FOF are separate from the system. The 4 functions either exist or they don’t. Yes various schools of modern psychology describe the different qualities of intelligence in our common presence. To those who say these are just words. Your intellectual center is seriously undeveloped. If you were a member of the FOF and were unable to verify the existence of the 4 functions than you really were in a mindless cult functioning by imitating others. Do not imagine this is or was the truth for all.
This new note on the blog represents the start of a new octave. Part of this is the use of a new medium the internet the transmit C influence. What is this C influence. Just being honest. There is nothing higher that we have to share than are honest experiences. An open sharing of experiences of the FOF. Not just as part of our individual process of growth and healing but also in respect to those who were there for us who have passed. Some see the blog as negative , maybe perceiving it as destroying something, I thinkwhat it destroys are mainly imagination about the FOF and Robert Burton. Sometimes as in surgery a part needs to be removed or destroyed in order for healing to occur this occurs on all scales. As above so below. In this case the diseased part is Robert Burton and his distorted sexuality. Perhaps the greater FOF can find a way to function.
Beware the attempts of the dysingenuous as they try to discredit this discourse with their moronic meaningless manifestations. Or, in other words, the off-topic posts of unpleasantries are attempts to discredit this blog and/or to cause people to be frustrated in reading it. Just skip over the useless drivel.
Verify Verity
I want to tell my experiment with the school:
Since before I left the fellowship, few years ago, several people asked me how was it to be in it.
My answer was always the same; “I left the fellowship empowered and more conscious without doubt. But I don’t recommend you to join it. There are faster, safer and more efficient ways to get results than there.”
What made me stronger after more than 15 years was not the teaching itself, but the process of sorting out through so much distraction, confusion, and entertainment.
If the fellowship is a conscious school, it is one of denial.
It is not a school of love.
Whatever is being taught there, needs to be turned around carefully.
What helped me, were personal painful experiences that put me in states of intense presence that I verified were of a different quality than the presence Robert and the students in general talked about. I realized that we just talked about it. That is risky because you may became a specialist in talking about presence but not actually be present. The FOF method had too many other components that made thing very confusing to me. I needed more clarity.
I made it through it but many didn’t. I saw people going through the deepest misery and some of them, never recovered. At that time, who was supposed to be a man number 5 was chronically depressed and addictive to antidepressants. That was before his stroke. I hope his is doing better now. He was doing his best.
It was very common to meet older students (20+ years in the school) being depressed or angry without motivation for life. No presence, no aliveness. Good talkers in the meetings, anxious and miserable in private.
My practice in the healing profession allowed me to be able to witness in all those years, many students repeating those patterns that gave me enough evidence to say what I am saying.
It was very painful for me to stay all those years with my eyes open.
I knew that something was off, something was fishy.
I started practicing presence (what an expression!) daily.
I was obsessed with it. I realized how foreign it was to me. I needed support, but the support the students gave me was not working. Most of them were like parrots repeating from a book. And the teacher seemed to be in his own bubble doing his thing.
The most powerful guidance happened when I starting bringing myself present to the deep pain that I was feeling for being an outcast in the school. I felt like a cyst or a tumor sometimes in the body of the school.
But itt became simpler and simpler. Slowly, I learned not to condition the state of presence. That means, no expecting anything out of it. It was not easy as you can imagine.
I started turning around what Robert was saying. Whatever he would say, I would do the opposite. It was an experiment for quite a long time. And worked.
The consciousness taught in the FOF is not the one I’ve verified myself.
There is not circus in it. It is very simple. No angels, no prophecies, no life people vs us, no going to the moon, etc.
It is not a state that comes and goes. It is always in the background. It varies in intensity but is always available. It is there when I am happy, it is there when I am in pain. It never leaves. It is what I really am (if I am anything at all!)
For me it’s empowering. In better words it is all power itself.
It is actually living in touch with the miracle of life always available.
It’s a state of clarity, were I can live my life from a place of authenticity and integrity. From that place I never say yes when I want to say no. Anywhere I go, the same face, no need for pretense or hiding. Its a place where I can walk my talk. There is a sense of growing connection with myself. There is creativity and a sense of love for life. An honoring. This results in deeper inner peace, freedom and joy in my experience. The aliveness grows and what we call the traits of the young children in an adult’s body becomes more and more a regular part of life.
For me the process of awakening is an ascending octave, suffering is not an option in it, although pain happens.
They are very different things, you know.
It is a process where the ability and the skills to deal with pain grow the more I use them. It is about being present to what is happening in me, regardless of what is. It is not about suppressing emotions, it is not about expressing them neither. It is about transforming them with deep presence. If they are uncomfortable (what in the fellowship I used to called: negative emotions) I feel them as human pain. They are not personal. The state of conscious presence as I experience it, embraces life as it is.
There are no enemies to fight. Everything is material for transformation.
It is about less inner talk, less opinions, less analysis, less criticism, less gossip, less us vs you.
It requires to be connected with my body, with its feelings and sensations. In my experience, to be present is to be as authentic as I can. If I feel sad, I feel sad. If I feel angry, I feel angry. No story. No shoulds or shouldn’ts. It’s what is.
End of the story.
Students in the fellowship: It is possible to live like this. It requires to stop believing what my little head is telling me. And what other little heads are telling me too! including Robert’s!
And you know, I learned all this while I was in the fellowship. Funny ah?
I learned it with my patients, some of you, FOF students. I could see that what you were doing didn’t work. I saw it too many times. I didn’t say anything though.
I was doing my experiment still not very certain about it.
I just learned to turn things around. Whatever Robert said I would do the opposite and see what happened. After several years I found a way that worked for me. I also learned not to believe anything he would said including the predictions. (that was quite a show. A tragic-comedy I would say)
After several years of deeply feeling the pain of being in the school and seeing what I was seeing happening around me, I left feeling complete. No resentments.
It was about time.
What a change of life! I felt like coming out of a cave. Finally, breathing pure air!
After leaving, I learned that there were other teachings that were already saying what I was doing and I remember wondering, “how come us, the students in the fellowship attract such complicated teaching?”
I realized that Robert attracts very special people. Like myself full of naiveté and arrogance. Dangerous combination!
Naiveté and arrogance, the chief feature of the FOF.
If you have enough of both in your genetics, you are a good candidate for Robert’s school.
With the intention to contribute,
Thank you for this opportunity to share.
Dear Comic Relief (11/250),
Re: your ‘Roman Proverb’
You evidently have not read all the blog pages or have forgotten post 4/180. I guess this needs reiteration:
4/180:
Verify Verity Says:
March 26th, 2007 at 5:00 am
Concerning post 4/165 by David Dalton:
The quotation you perhaps are thinking of, attributed to the Bible (”when Gods wants to punish a person, He takes away his understanding”), is more likely from ancient Greece:
‘When gods in anger seek a mortal’s harm, first they deprive him of his sanity, and fashion of his mind a baser instrument, that he may have no knowledge wherein he errs.’
Lycurgus c.396-c.325 B.C.
There is a long story about how this passage arrived in documentation for a prosecution, by an overzealous political figure, Lycurgus. It is reported to be the only existing document from Lycurgus, who was said to be, ‘one of the ‘ten’ Attic orators.’ It [the story] is too long and somewhat besides the point here. You can research it on the net. But here is one possible view of it [the quotation] found:
‘There’s an old Greek adage that dates back to Lycurgus of Sparta [location likely erroneous]: ‘When falls on man the anger of the gods, first from his mind they banish understanding.’ Or as Longfellow put it, ‘Whom the gods would destroy they first make mad.’ The theory is that, once driven to the point of insanity, the protagonist commits some foolish act[(s)] that brings about his own destruction. Classical tragedy is built on the same principle: The tragic hero, despite his heroic virtues, is brought down by a tragic flaw – usually hubris.’
This psychological view of our condition applies to anyone who wants to ‘know them selves.’ That is, that critical thinking about one’s own thoughts is a good idea to do regularly and to check-in with your gods, as you may know
them, regularly, too, as well as your trusted friends. ‘The unexamined life is not worth living.’
But, the above paragraph, found on the net, speaks volumes about exactly what is going on in FOF [The Fellowship of Friends] and
particularly w/RB [Robert Earl Burton]; The Tragic Hero that he might Be.
Most posters to the blog certainly open themselves to critical examination of their thoughts, presuming that what they write is a reflection of their thinking and not just mechanical spewing forth of words. Words can very well be a multifaceted sword. Those that live by the sword must be prepared to die by the sword.
Verify Verity
P.S.: To the extent that the predictions were/are metaphor (as some FoFers would now have you believe), Robert Earl Burden being a conscious being is also a metaphor.
P.P.S.: The contents of this entire blog, all pages included, is perhaps the best possible photograph of the Fellowship of Friends and Robert Earl Burton that can be delivered by humanity as a reflection. It makes one wonder how the photograph is being taken/processed. But, as the law of photograph is, the photograph is delivered from a third force place without the expectation of any specific result and the rest is left to higher forces.
Verify Verity.
310. Amen.
Continued surgery. Just had two profound satoris, robert has short be! and the inner circle or inner ring is a daisy chain.
Any thing you cant laugh at and let go you are identified with. Thats not to say that we shouldnt care, just that we should care in an unidentified way.
“These are the four great things, and the ruler is the least of them. Humanity is schooled by the Earth, Earth is taught by Heaven, and Heaven is guided by the Tao. And the Tao goes with what is absolutely natural.”
Tao-te ching, book 1, chapter 25
Hegellian dialectic. Thesis, antithesis, brings us to synthesis.
best wishes. cy
To:
301 student
“dear sheik,
if there is any meaning in this blog for informing current members and potential members it’s getting lost right now. Just read the last 100 posts. Without a specific aim or interest, one would not continue reading them. A spiritual interested person would probably be put of right away. I am a current member and still believe in the school and Robert (with some relativity by now due to your blog), but I also think the school should be able to stand this criticism. So please provide this for me and all others you want to save.”
The general tone of your post is not in ha