573 I think is worth a reading.
Dear, I think is worth a reading, my lowly opinion and I am sure that many here will not have the same opinion.
Is that Tony Parsons head is up his arson.
Is everyone also born able to play piano and do trigonometry and dance ballet at a high level?
But as said it is only my opinion and many here dont share it.
Maya Maya Maya. Cy.
I remember how difficult it was to leave the fellowship of friends. I had believed in it and wanted to re-discover that belief. I met all the people close to me in the Fellowship. The outside world seemed cold and heartless. I have to be honest in saying I didn’t leave without joining another group. I admire people who leave without joining something. I guess ultimately *Life* is the teacher and the kingdom is within you.i.e. we have to live in accordance with the essence of ourselves. I find it hard to follow the blog but you guys are amazing.
I didn’t know that Brian Sisler was schizophrenic until he left the Fellowship, but he did have a pathetic quality to him. He was a heavy drinker, an attempt at self-medication I suppose, and he sometimes got into trouble because of his drinking. He said that he didn’t feel able attend any Robert events or FOF concerts without drinking first. After one accident too many, Brian was told to take valium before attending any of Robert’s events, helpfully prescribed by Dr EH. I didn’t have the feeling that Brian was exclusively gay, he seemed to develop crushes on women, so maybe he was bisexual.
The version I heard about Brian’s attempt to contact Robert was that he was turned away by the gatehouse attendant. Robert subsequently sent a message to the gatehouse that any current or former member who asked to speak to Robert should be put through to someone close to Robert, Dorien or Asaf. I wonder if this would really work. The Fellowship # is 692-2244. Don’t all phone up at once.
Ph_lip L_cas can be lunatic about security. He likes guns a lot and regularly goes hunting deer illegally on the property along with M_hai. Others do it to, becase Robert wants to thin down the deer population because of his roses. He also gave Ph_lip permission to shoot any dogs that get onto the property. I’m told that PL took a course in a particular kind of shooting in case Robert is ever involved in a hostage situation. He is paranoid about ex-students getting onto the property, and so gatehouse keepers would be unlikely to be sympathetic to anyone who asks to see Robert.
A government department recently called the “ministers” in for interview, and in early July they decided that the FOF did not qualify as a church. There was no temple or church structure on the property, for one thing. But they made a number of mistakes, interviewing people who are over here with “monk” visas as if they were ministers (“ministers” are expected by the authorities to perform certain duties, whereas these are not required of “monks” or “brothers and sisters”) and they claimed to have interviewed one particular minister, but had not done so. All of this has bought time for the FOF, so there have been R1 meetings advising students what to say. “Ministers” who no longer rely on R1 visas have been officially decommissioned because there are a crazy number of ministers in the FOF. Of course, no one in the Fellowship of Friends refers to it as a church unless Homeland Security is listening. Students applying for religious worker visas are even instructed that they must simply answer “yes” if they are asked if they believe in God when they are interviewed by Homeland Security. Don’t tell them about the Absolute, or about God being keyed as presence, just answer “Yes”! There was a funny offical email from the FOF a while ago offering a salaried position in the “monastery gardens”. Purely for the sake of eavesdropping INS officials and others. The Wikipedia article and the new website, both of which now refer to God and “church” have obviously been developed to try and convince the authorities that the FOF really is a church.
The Esoteric History Archive, also called veronicapoe’s bookmarks, can be found at the following URL. Just copy and past the URL into your browser and remove the spaces:
www . archive . org / bookmarks / veronicapoe
Life Person — wonderfully, clearly stated. Thank you.
Comic relief — the playlet about philanthropist Hank and his followers made me laugh out loud.
The Canons of the Fellowship of Friends, January 1, 1986
Bookmarked: 9 days ago
Noyes v. Kelly Services, Inc.
Bookmarked: 14 days ago
Body Types Journal
Bookmarked: 17 days ago
“Ain’t Love Gland – Excerpts”
Bookmarked: 29 days ago
Fellowship Cessna (purchased January 2, 1972)
Bookmarked: 29 days ago
Outside the Lodge, Spring 1972
Bookmarked: 30 days ago
January 1982 Letter to Robert
Bookmarked: 32 days ago
Comment: includes Robert’s edits and comments
Account of Barbara Bruno Lancaster
Bookmarked: 32 days ago
Comment: From Cults and Consequences (1988)
Meeting of the Board of Directors, Renaissance Monastery, February 20, 1982
Bookmarked: 38 days ago
Comment: This document was filed by lawyers for The Fellowship of Friends, Inc. in the Superior Court of California for the County of Yuba. It was obtained in the course of a public records search and is in the public domain.
Photograph, “Gathered Around The Campfire, 1971″
Bookmarked: 42 days ago
Overview of Fellowship Exercises, July 26, 1980
Bookmarked: 43 days ago
Comment: This overview was prepared by Student # 11.
Three photographs of Robert Burton from the 1960s
Bookmarked: 43 days ago
Fellowship of Friends Timeline, January 1970 – January 1974
Bookmarked: 44 days ago
Comment: This timeline was prepared by Student # 11.
Note from the period of silence, 1971-1972
Bookmarked: 46 days ago
Comment: “It is good weak students leave as they are weight. It used to bother me but now it’s like a useless object being gone.”
Recruitment diagrams, November 1971 and January 1972
Bookmarked: 47 days ago
Comment: Documenting the early growth of the Fellowship of Friends as an organization “which may be reached only by invitation.”
Meeting of the Board of Directors, Renaissance Monastery, February 20, 1982
Bookmarked: 47 days ago
Comment: Archive.org lists this link as not available “due to issues with the item’s content.” Reposted on June 20, 2007.
“The Greatest Mystery of the Twentieth Century”
Bookmarked: 47 days ago
Comment: “Can the chief feature of vanity be transmuted into a strength?”
The Canons of the Fellowship of Friends
Bookmarked: 52 days ago
Comment: Archive.org lists this link as not available “due to issues with the item’s content.” Reposted on July 19, 2007.
Meeting of the Governing Board, Lafayette School District, March 27, 1967
Bookmarked: 52 days ago
Articles of Incorporation of The Fellowship of Friends, Inc.
Bookmarked: 52 days ago
Guidelines for Circle of Angels, 1990-1991, Walden Farm
Bookmarked: 53 days ago
probably he (TP) will agree with you…..I don’t, and here is another reading:
Excerpts and Dialoques from Tony’s upcoming new book
- Nothing Being Everything
Nothing Being Everything to be published mid-July
You were saying yesterday that the very seeking prevents the seeing – I am paraphrasing – it’s just such a brilliant game of appearances and deflection of attention in a way and it just helps to give an understanding of how it is all from the same font
It’s the same font, yes. One bit of it doesn’t want to be the same – or thinks it isn’t the same font.
But that’s just all the play – or what is called the Divine Play of …
It’s absolutely the divine play of being. And being isn’t the slightest bit interested in the idea of anybody seeing this or not, because there is nothing other than being … and non-realisation is also being.
So being suffers, being laughs, being searches, being finds, being doesn’t find. There isn’t anything other than that. And of course all of that is totally immaculately whole – there is only that so that is all there is. But in that wholeness there is something that thinks it isn’t wholeness, which is also being, being separate.
Being has no requirements. But what arises within being is an apparent need and requirement to find that there is no need and requirement.
And the mystery of that is just inscrutable – it’s just a mystery.
And the search for that is reflected in the world that we live in because everything we do is a search for that. All religion, all apparent personal endeavour, is simply a seeking for this unknowing.
A resolution of attention, of feeling separate?
It is a search for not being separate. The seeker cannot see this, because this is timeless being – this is the eternal isness which is out of time, out of space, out of being achievable. So what we are trying to achieve can’t be achieved because it is already all there is.
It’s kind of hard to accept – something I have a hard time accepting is that the spiritual search is no better, no higher, no more refined than a search for money, sex, power or whatever.
Absolutely. All desire is ultimately the search to come home. And what is strange about this paradox, this mystery, is that everything that is being done – all seeking, all reaching out, all personal endevour, all building of churches and empires, is being-ness. It is pure aliveness. It’s an amazingly strange paradox.
In some ancient Vedic text, or something like that, is there anything said about how that is, or about the why. I mean I know the ‘Bhagavad Gita’ says just, it’s an experiment …
No, there is no why and there is no experiment and no choice. The basis of traditional argument is that oneness chose to become two, and if oneness made a choice to become two, it could make a choice to become one again. It’s a fairy story based on the illusion of time, cause and effect.
Nothing is ever chosen. The whole dream of choice and motivation is that there is something in time that can move forward with intention from a place called twoness to a place called oneness. There never has been anything but being, and this is the eternal nothing and everything. It isn’t going anywhere and it’s never been anywhere. There is no anywhere. There is no time or space except in the appearance. There is nothing but this, and this is nothing happening.
And I see now that that question arises from the separate point of view so it is inherently unanswerable in a way. It is just an unanswerable question, but that is only because it is from the standpoint of separateness. Because in the glimpses of wholeness there is no question. There is no question at all. There is just an absence of any need to know anything because it just is. So then that question is just a loop that arises.
Yes, it is a loop and you are absolutely right, separation engenders the question ‘why’ and the searching. And as you say, when there is no one there is no loop and there won’t be any questions. There is no question and there are no answers. There is no knower and no known … and so there is no one to ask why.
But it is the most enticing question within that point of view.
Oh yes, it is, and being in separation loves asking why. And that fascination has generated religion. The question why in the seeker has generated Christianity, Buddhism, everything else that you could call a teaching of becoming that inevitably is based on the fundamental misconception that there is a separate individual with choice and volition to follow a path, to be motivated to move from one state to another, better state, to seek and find the answer that has no question.
I feel very happy to be here. I want to address the topic of being. Yesterday I learned a very important lesson. I was on my way home and I thought, “Oh I’m so much looking forward to being at home” and I realised that I was actually tearing myself in two because I was saying by implication that my state in travelling was actually less than this nirvana of simply this.
And I said, “Hang on, Robert, it’s you here, stop mortgaging yourself for some future event, it’s actually okay to be on the Northern Line”.
Yes. But you didn’t do that, it just happened. And looking forward is also beingness.
It just happened?
The difficulty for the seeker is that they think they have to do something about their state or be in another state that frees them from the state they think they’re in.
But you’re a left brain torturer aren’t you?
Oh, am I? (laughing)
Of course you are.
Oh right, I’m a left brain torturer. (laughing)
So in Amsterdam I’m The Terminator. And here I’m the ‘left brain torturer’. (laughing)
You know you said there’s just awareness?
No, there’s just being. Awareness happens, or doesn’t happen, in being.
There’s just being. And you were talking about awareness as a sense.
Well my sense of awareness is that it’s a transient state, or it’s a place you can be in and out of. It’s still in the story.
Because I was just thinking that – when you were standing there – I was aware of your left side. I’m also aware that my shoulder’s a bit tense but nobody else in the room is aware of it.
No.
So it’s as if we all have separate awareness.
Well yes, that seems to be so, and what I’m suggesting is that all these things you’ve just described are something that’s simply happening. It’s being tight shoulders or being Tony Parsons’ left side. It doesn’t need awareness for it to be, but the seeker thinks it does.
But what’s happening here is slightly different to what’s happening there.
What’s also being suggested is that there isn’t a “here” and “there”. It seems to the apparent entity that there is a location here and it seems as though there’s a “here” and a “there”. There isn’t a “here” and a “there” and those tight shoulders are simply being tight shoulders just as being this left side is being left side. It’s all only beingness.
But it’s all lots of little different bits of information.
Yes it certainly seems different, but it is oneness being everything and therefore appearing to be different. All of it is simply oneness arising. All of it is simply being.
What do we do with all the bits of information coming at us all the time?
Nothing.
Nothing? (laughing)
There is no one that can do anything and there is nothing that needs to be done or known! There never has been anyone to do anything. The whole misconception that keeps us firmly in the sense of being separate is the idea that we can do anything or the idea that we need to do anything. Why do we need to do anything? There is just what’s happening. It is all immaculately complete and without need.
So what should we be aware of then?
Nothing. (laughing) Here you go again with the obligation of having to be aware, which is a transitory state. There just is what’s happening. The idea of being aware of something is a trap. Awareness needs another and is still in the story of dualism … there is no other.
But what’s happening changes; it changes from second to second. That’s not constant.
Yes. It certainly appears to change, but everything only seems to change or be different or apart from everything else. All of what happens is being apparently happening.
So where’s the constant?
The constant is being, and it is nowhere and everywhere. What’s happening is being arising and moving around. And beingness is all there is.
And where am I in relation to what’s happening?
You aren’t. There is no one. There is no relationship. All there is is being and the idea of a “me” arises in being.
Hmm-mm. (laughing) Well what’s the value of knowing that?
None at all. There’s absolutely nothing on offer here. There’s no value, nothing is on offer. The most amazing thing that could arise from this is nothing. If you go out of here with something, then you’re still someone with something. “I now have this. This is mine to do something with”. If there’s a real hearing of this it will be seen that there is nothing to get or know. There will just be apparently what’s happening.
There’s nowhere to go. There’s no goal. There’s no carrot. There’s no prize. All there is is this. But the difference between there just being what’s happening and the sense that it’s happening to you is immeasurable.
I can understand there being no person or no choice. What you seem to be saying is there’s no past where that person has been conditioned in anything. Is that correct? There is no past?
There appears to be a past and the conditioning that arises. There is only timeless being appearing as that.
So in that sense this didn’t happen. So when is the present?
There isn’t any.
There is no present either?
This is no thing happening. There’s no past, there’s no future, there’s no above, there’s no below, there’s no inner, there’s no outer. There is no present moment. Show me the present moment … where can it be?
Is that because those are concepts?
Yes. They’re only the dream or the belief and experience of a separate person arising in this time, goals, meaning, purpose, cause and effect, karma, past lives … all that dream story arises as this. The moment we become separate we hope for an answer so we attach to that hope the idea “Oh there must be a meaning. Why is this happening? Why aren’t I in paradise? Where is goodness? Why have I lost it? There must be a meaning for this life I have, so what I must do is find meaning.” So we go to people who teach us meaning. We go to enlightenment masters who tell us, “Yes there is a meaning. I’ll teach you how to find meaning through effort, sacrifice, dedication, devotion, change, personal refinement of the body-mind or whatever other teaching of becoming.
If there’s no meaning, what stops you from being a couch potato?
Nothing. If couch potatoing happens it happens. There’s nobody who can choose to be a couch potato or not be one. So a lot of people – teachers – say “Well Tony Parsons is teaching spiritual laziness”. Of course, they’re not really hearing what’s being said. They think that Tony Parsons is saying, “There’s nothing you can do so go and watch East Enders” but actually that isn’t the message.
The fundamental message is, there is no such thing as a separate entity with free will or choice and so nobody can choose to watch East Enders or not watch it. What is apparently done or not done is completely irrelevant to being.
So when you’re attached to your identity you try to bend things, to want things and do things.
You dream that you are doing those things and need to do them in order to get more things.
So that just disappears?
What disappears is the one who feels separate and needs not to. There’s only being. It can’t be conceived of. It can’t be described. It cannot even be known.
This story is so compelling. This is so compelling.
It’s compelling and fascinating to you. If you take ‘you’ out of the happening it’s just what’s happening. What’s compelling about what’s happening right now? I mean it’s just happening. What’s the compulsion?
It’s a thought story that feels very real.
But where is that story right now? What’s happening in that story?
What’s happening in that story?
Where’s this going right now? Is there a story? What’s happening there? What is sensed there right now in the body?
Tiredness.
So that’s what there is. That is this, beingness. But the mind gets hold of the tiredness and says “Well, that is your tiredness and so what you need to do now is get to bed, or not work so hard, or use your energy in a better way”. And there you are back in a story trying to make things better for you.
Yes. And it’s because the tiredness is there.
No. It’s really because you are still there taking ownership of the tiredness. Then when you’re in bed and you’ve slept for 12 hours you’ll take ownership of feeling better. It’s always telling you “You’re going to feel better – or worse”. It’s the greatest and most powerful addiction there is … you.
What’s your sense of standing here right now? Is there any way of describing that?
Warmth. There’s being warmth, excitement, feet on the ground. Somebody’s moved just over there. Cars going by.
But they don’t add up to a kind of something?
No, they just are what’s apparently happening. The formless in form … beingness.
Okay so they’re not being joined. I think maybe we’re joining them.
Oh, the separate entity joins them and makes them into a story that can be known. And they also dream that what is happening is happening to them and it has meaning about getting somewhere.
Okay, what I experience – it’s absolutely true – is an incredible feeling of vulnerability as though the shell’s come off.
Yes.
And I kind of get a bit like I’ve got goose bumps. I just feel really like …
Risky?
Yes. It feels like something has been peeled off. Something like a prawn or something. If you peel off the casing there’s just no protection. And it feels uncomfortable. If I don’t go into a story it just feels uncomfortable physically.
The way you get back to being you and feeling safe is to go into the apparent story of you in time.
Yes, but do you just cope with that vulnerability and go with it?
No, there is no one to cope with anything, there is just nakedness.
It just all happens then?
It’s like being naked and open to everything and there’s a sense of risk about it. Everything is suddenly unknown and very alive … there are no filters.
You get used to it?
There is no one to get used to anything. There are no artificial filters that you previously provided as an individual. That’s why it’s got nothing to do with what people call detachment. It’s totally full-on aliveness … for no one.
I am taking the liberty of re-posting #407 from Part 6 of this blog. Thank you again, Joe Average.
Joe Average Says:
I am forwarding an old letter from an ex-student, as valid now as then. Be warned – I have trimmed it a bit where you see …, but it is still long.
Dear Friends,
Of late, my friends and I have been labeled “dissidents”, and worse, by FOF’s leadership. While reading this letter it would be helpful if you could simply consider me an old friend.
… Please permit yourself the clear space to receive these thoughts and feelings in order to work with them as completely as possible. Given the current situation, I understand that this will not be easy for you. It certainly has been a disturbing process for me as well. However, I have been overwhelmed by the weight of my observations and feel duty bound to share them with you.
This letter is not intended to serve as the last word on REB or the FOF. Nor is it written to prove or establish a particular point of view. Instead, I hope that it will create a balance to the information you have received from FOF, and act as a springboard from which you may begin a long overdue reappraisal of your own feelings and presumptions. Many of you are mired in a way of life which, for myself and many other ex-members, was neither happy nor enlightening, but instead offered little more than tedium, suppression, exclusivity and debilitating dependency.
Of late, FOF has required all of you to believe that certain ex-members, as “dissidents”, are “bad” simply because criticism of REB and FOF is not now and never has been permitted. These people have been described as “vindictive”, “crazy”, or “liars” … Apparently it is unthinkable to FOF that anyone could sincerely believe (or know) that the allegations directed at REB are true. But given a history of intense involvement with REB, do you really believe that ex-members would turn around and speak this way unless they really felt that something was wrong? From FOF’s narrow point of view, one would have to be fallen, dark, and just plain wrong to criticize their “guru”. I implore you to remain open to the possibility that your old friends are none of the above.
The author of this letter has over the past year spoken with approximately 40 ex-members who have uniquely personal and varied perceptions of REB and FOF. Among these people are a number of former high-ranking FOF officials and board of directors members, as well as personal and sexual intimates of REB. …
They are all united in the belief that accurate information, dialogue, real consideration and anything remotely like discrimination have never been offered or encouraged by REB or FOF. Therefore, they would like to see a free, full, and honest discussion occur. Such a discussion would benefit everyone, except for those who desire only the maintenance of their status and claim. Everyone, especially the “rank and file” FOF membership, must be set free in order to find their own true way through this controversy.
It is obvious however that as long as ex-member “dissidents” are seen as negative, dark, angry, unspiritual “others”—and “you” in FOF remain the righteous, holy lovers of god, unjustly criticized, god’s army fighting off the heathen masses and demonic media—as long as this contrived dichotomy persists there can be no clarity. …Do not permit the FOF leadership to call you to a false, childish, and simplistic understanding of this controversy. It is a complex, personal and deeply emotional matter that cannot be resolved or dismissed through name-calling and character assassination.
… This matter cannot be reduced to a battle between good and evil…
Instead of encouraging an open discussion, FOF has used the same tactics that any political organization would use. They have created a “cause” for you to rally around and feel emotionally committed to and identified with, so that you won’t stare the accusations against REB straight in the eye. They would rather hook you into a fight to protect “the right to freely practice religion”, a right which they claim ex-members have tried to deprive you of. But in what way has anyone actually done this?
Let’s take a little closer look at the constitutional protections afforded to “religions” such as the FOF. The right to believe whatever you want is protected absolutely. However, the right to do whatever you want is not afforded the same absolute protection at all. Many of the things which REB has been accused of do not fall into the category of actions which are protected. Additionally, is it not reasonable as a common citizen to ask why people who have been involved in illegal activities should be granted the privilege of tax-exempt religious status, as claimed by FOF? And if, in fact, abuses of people have occurred (through actions which are commonly recognized as abuses in our society) shouldn’t the victims have a right to address them in all the forums available? How then does this amount to an attack on religious freedom?
…The difficulty for many of you is that it has been so long since you entered into an examination other than one created for you by REB and FOF that to do so on your own and to examine “the authorities themselves” is a very difficult task indeed. And yet it must be done if there is to be any clarity or passage through this controversy.
All I ask then is that this process of unfettered examination be permitted and actually encouraged by FOF. Ask yourself how it is that you are now “advocates”, burdened by belief and fixed presumptions. Why hasn’t REB and FOF welcomed and seen the necessity for an open airing of issues? Why have you all been programmed and “educated” by the FOF propagandists on their way to whitewashing the so-called “FOF sacred history”? How does spiritual practice properly lead to all this manipulation and defense? Who and what is requiring that you become politicized rather than clear? And how well do you really understand that which you are being called upon to defend?
I invite you to regain the discrimination and inquisitiveness many of you have unconsciously chosen to relinquish in order to associate with REB and the myth he has drawn you into (both as to who he is and the necessity of turning to him for your liberation). If we assume for the moment that REB began his “teaching work” by speaking to our desire for liberation, apart from excess dogmatic baggage and entanglements, it is evident that he has now “moved on” and is at work merely cultivating in his students a yearning for salvation in a system where only he can do the saving.
… And if we accept that REB’s writings carry a credible message, they do so only insofar as they release the reader into his or her own inherent sense of “being” and “truth”, free of the game of “the search”. It appears impossible for this to occur in the midst of all the medieval, dogmatic, exclusive, ritualized form beneath which direct, unmediated truth has been buried by REB and FOF. After all these years, where is the real evidence that any type of “spiritual process” is uniquely occurring within your community? People are just growing older. The greatness of god has been subordinated to the glory, of REB and his hierarchical empire. Needing to be nurtured and fathered, and being naive as to true spiritual culture and to the game of spiritual authority, most of us never even noticed the light go out.
This is a large part of what ex-members are trying to address. You are part of a highly ambitious and politicized “machine of seeking” where you no longer own your own perceptions. Ideological dogma coupled with the edited information of the group dominates and molds your life. You are required to adapt to a complex, sophisticated technology of mind and emotion, through which you understand yourself and upon which you view the world; it is a hierarchical scheme with REB as the head, reigning above and beyond the world of man, as external savior or father. We have all been too much in need of an external mediator to serve the participation in and awareness of our own true condition. We must grow beyond the childish and incapacitating dependency bonds which are everywhere propagated by REB and FOF.
In many ex-members’ experience, the first doubts and questions about their lives as devotees centered around the observations they had regarding the “community” and “institution” of FOF. But they found it much harder to take the obvious next step and look directly at REB, the source and creator of every aspect of the “culture”, institutional structure, and spiritual life of those in FOF. These ex-members, like many of you, dared not break the great taboo of seriously questioning or doubting REB; either their comparative lack of in-depth or prolonged personal experience with him or their incapacity to break through the indoctrination prevented them from seeing him clearly. But finally, in the face of what is now obvious, their relationship to the mythology and imagery which is REB has broken down. These people have “discovered” the man Bubbles Burton, and now know that “the emperor wears no clothes.”
At this point it would be good to examine the specific activities of REB that many people are concerned about. Some of the information recently brought to light will be recounted here for those who are unfamiliar with what has been said, or for those who have been confused and distracted by FOF…
To begin with, REB has historically had control over the finances, properties, and other assets of FOF as if he personally and solely “owned” FOF, in stark contrast to the purposes and laws governing non-profit religious organizations. He has personally made all key decisions and has gratified his every whim, caring not for the financial strains he has placed on others. There are serious questions regarding whether REB has over the years abused the tax-exempt status of the FOF corporation for his own personal gain. Perhaps this is why FOF officials in the past few years have strategically destroyed documents that tended to reveal that REB was actually “running the show.”
REB has always demanded that people “go beyond themselves” to give him more money than they could afford, and then has spent the money on whatever he wanted to create or consume in that moment. Like a child, he has demanded the immediate gratification of his material desires, and then has often abandoned what he has been given in search of a new and more expensive “toy”. … In private, REB has laughed at those who have shown any concern about his financial exploitation of others. This is purportedly an example of the fact that REB is “free of conventional morality.”
…REB has participated in and required others to perform in sexual and related acts of a highly degrading and demeaning nature which have caused psychological and/or physical damage to those participating. FOF has recently admitted to examples of these types of activity, which many people believe are a reflection of the perversion of REB, rather than anything like enlightened “spiritual instruction.” … These sexual excesses of REB are not a thing of the distant past…..
And it is the firm belief of many people that the inordinate amount of time and attention REB spends on sexuality reflects nothing more than his own obsession and desires.
The vast discrepancy between what REB claims and says, versus what he does and intends must be thoroughly examined and understood before one can make an informed response to the man. What should be clear to everyone is that no one in FOF is given the opportunity to “cast the light” directly on REB. Why is he so estranged and hidden from you, really? Apart from your child-like fantasies and subtle beliefs about “who he is” and “how he works”, how much and how privately have you observed him and then tested your observations?
The fact is, apart from what you have read and are told, intermixed with a variety of contacts with REB years ago, most of you know very little about your teacher. You have therefore been called to relate to only the most superficial imagery about who REB is, and at the same time you have become steeped in an officially prescribed method for relating to him which permits only subservience and fawning devotion. And those of you who have been close to him should ask yourselves to what degree you own hopes, needs, and self-generated projections and expectations, coupled with the mythology about how REB’s “unconventional behavior” has been designed to teach you, has colored your perceptions of him. Ex-members know from their own experience that many of you are paying a heavy price in terms of emotional suppression, confusion, and self-delusion in order to maintain the false conclusion that you have actually been served by this “crazy-wise” madness.
Another disturbing matter regarding REB is the ritual of secrecy and deception surrounding him. Some of the things described about REB’s life would not in themselves be worthy of any real concern if they did not stand in complete contradiction to an idealized image which has been used to exploit the people who have supported the whole affair. … It was on the basis of this lie that so many accepted the notion that his past behavior was in fact a “teaching demonstration”, and went on to give their lives, minds, hearts, and money to this man. However, upon discovering this deception, many were understandably outraged. …
You may ask yourself why those who know all of these secrets have always withheld them from you. But we already know the answer. How glamorous to be associated with the ultimate matter and the ultimate master! But what a conceit and what a foundation for the pursuit of power. Through the screening mechanisms of the so-called “culture”, only the few “mature” or “committed” members are given access to REB based upon a paranoid and patriarchal mentality of obedience. The demonstrated signs of your “maturity” (i.e. submission and obedience) gauge the level of your “status” and regulated, controlled access to events, places and people on the political (not spiritual but political) pecking order…
REB’s behavior is a reflection of his own character and motivations, just like everyone else’s, and he should rightfully take responsibility for the problems his shortcomings have created in his own life and the lives of others. He is anything but free of ego. He has his own strengths and weaknesses. Yet through the process of indoctrination and manipulation, coupled with the weaknesses of those around him, he has been successful at keeping himself invulnerable and unquestioned. In so doing, he has become afflicted in all the ways that any man would be corrupted and deluded by excessive power and isolation from critical feedback. He has also thus imprisoned himself within the expectations he created in others and the torment of pretending to be something he is not. …
…Nor is it any longer accepted that “the world” is a terrible place full of terrible people, and that spiritual life ends when one leaves FOF. People now know better than to become ensnared in the tentacles of this argument. And where there was only “one” worthy of love and respect, all others became unworthy and worthless. This is what happened in FOF, for as we were all divested of our own selfworth and simultaneously invested in REB, we were rendered nothing rather than “no-thing.” Can you feel this?
We have all (current and ex-members), along with REB, cooperated in constructing this insane empire. It is a classic and perverted play on what might have been. And it is nothing like what most of us signed up for or thought we were choosing. But so long as you are exposed to the “system” which life in FOF represents, there is no space within which to understand this and be set free.
…those who serve critical functions in your “culture” adapt to a profoundly dependent form of relating to REB and a resulting righteous, exclusive, self-glorifying, self-protective and politically charged “life of service.” You are all aware of the institutional mentality of those who lead you at FOF. They are part of a machine and priesthood of aberrated spiritual seeking and corruption, an exclusive club, reigning in association with the “enlightened” source or “goodie” who is offered as a reward to those giving over their center, discrimination, and direct unmediated ability to live the truth of their own condition.
In this process many of you have lost yourselves, your power and your way. And for REB to hide behind a claim of “blamelessness and divinity” while placing all the blame on the immaturity of his devotees, those very people who depend on him for their spiritual guidance, is not only irresponsible and cowardly, but the perfect vision of a perfectly narcissistic megalomaniac. Surely there was a time before you came to FOF where you could have simply recognized this to be so.
But can you now? It is so hard from where you are. I know, for it has taken many people years, even after leaving FOF, to wake up from the sleep which had settled into every corner of their mind’s eye. Although discrimination is spoken about in the teaching, it is nowhere present in the lives of devotees.
Many of you have, through non-use, lost your own personal, instinctual feeling for life, having been conditioned to believe that it represents recoil from the divine. You have become good at obeying without reflection. Your blank agreement is applauded as “equanimity” and the transcendence of reactivity.
Those who are in the FOF hierarchy have the most to lose. And they are among the most corrupt and in need of help. These people are relieved of the ordinary responsibilities of life and live instead a bizarre fantasy life. To do the bidding of their teacher they have become proficient at selectively withholding and releasing edited information, and have made the poor choice of abandoning their native sense of human decency in exchange for power and prestige.
Many of these same people are the most seriously ambitious in their “search.” It is as if they have not yet adapted to the rudiments of the practice as it relates to the “search” and yet are influential simply because they are “submitted.” Having made such a heavy investment of time and energy in gaining their status and position, they are now banking on their “personal” relationship with REB to save them. In this way there is a tremendous amount of manipulation around the poles of hope and fear. You spin and turn but rarely find a seat from which to observe the play. … The shocking news that thousands of people see this “master” of yours as a tyrannical and deluded power broker never quite reaches your ears or cannot penetrate your rehearsed belief.
When finally pressed up against this blunt observation from “the world” outside, you hold up “the teaching” like a crucifix to stave off the heathen hordes. You retreat into the “certainty” that nothing like “the teaching” could ever have been written by a charlatan. But many believe that REB’s, or anyone else’s ability to artfully synthesize, categorize, and recapitulate ideas and insights does not bear any necessary relation to spiritual realization and maturity. Aside from his particular style of presentation and arrangement of things, there is nothing uniquely described in REB’s literature that does not appear elsewhere. … he has borrowed from or been heavily influenced by numerous others to whom he has given no credit at all. The fact that he has been able to articulate the free and transcendent relationship to life that we all instinctively feel in moments, coupled with the fact that he writes and speaks about many things which are beyond the realm of your personal experience, is offered as “proof” that he is spiritually superior to you.
Many of you have apparently forgotten the simple truth that actions speak louder than words, and that insights which are not practiced are meaningless, if not dangerous. Your distraction with a complexity of abstractions and a sophisticated, “pre-packaged” context within which to interpret everything has left you “incapable of seeing the forest for the trees.” “By their fruits shall ye know them”, said one spiritual teacher nearly 2,000 years ago. And it is on this basis that each one of us must draw our own conclusions regarding the spiritual status of Robert Burton.
I am so glad to no longer be where many of you are, and I wanted to take the opportunity to tell you why. In many respects it would have been far easier to write this entire matter off as just another set of experiences. But I have felt too much passion and serious caring to have made that choice.
Should any of you meander out beyond the fences and psychological barriers of FOF, you will find that there is “unavoidably” only god outside your temple walls. Your spiritual life may change in form, but it will continue. And there are many people who have been through what you have experienced and can thus offer help. Many have needed and received support in order to make the critical transition back to a measure of self-respectability.
…It would have been preferable for all of you to have done the work of provoking this discussion. But I understand why this could not be so and trust that you will soon recognize the benefits which will ultimately come from what has been started. If in the end there is a bit more openness and honesty in FOF, a degree of self-critical inspection, or a drop less arrogance and exclusivity on the part of Robert Burton, we will have all been served…
Sincerely,
Mark D. Miller Sausalito, California USA
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Now, before you dig too deep in your memories trying to remember that name, I should let you know that I needed to make a few small changes to the letter. Do the following substitutions, and you have the original letter:
Bubbles Burton = Franklin Jones
Robert Burton = Da Free John
REB = DFJ
FOF = JDC (Johannine Daist Communion)
The idea is obvious, hopefully. Just change the names and the rest of the text, despite its length, complexity and level of detail, is a near perfect fit – word for word, point for point. Would Margaret Singer just smile and nod knowingly at this point, Joel?
Nothing unique in REB’s approach, nor in its results in his students.
Good substantial armourments of True Spirit being written recently. Sorry I cannot dwell on my e-machine/windows xp Chariot of Fire too long.
Thought this declaration explained to me by a dyslexically innumerate Protestant Eireann (you figure that phrase out using a dictionary if necessary) might help in the legal underpinnings:-
Nigel: How about a Class Action lawsuit?
Arthur: Ah yes, ‘we the people undersigned intend to
sue you, the Corporation, with our resources
both money and information ($44M would be nice
-my addition!).
Will write this evening (United Kingdom time)……….Nigel.
Thank you so much for your post. It shines among others as a real gem. Its honesty and truthfulness brought tears to my eyes. You will undoubtedly inspire many others to look deeply into themselves for the answers to the difficult questions facing all of us.
“…he (is) simply attempting to align (with) me, with the minimum possible personal involvement.”
Perfect description of how a sociopathic/psychopathic personality functions in the world.
Your analogy of the sequence as a gateway to higher states is exquisite and bears repeating:
“Imagine that you are longing to go swim in the sea, you stand at the water’s edge and then instead of leaping right in, believing that it’s not possible to enter directly, you take six steps parallel to the waters edge, at each step you say something like: Splash, float, cool, refresh, cool, Splashhhhh…, believing that at the end of these steps you will be actually be in the water, but of course you are not… you remain on the hard hot sand, to get in would involve dropping the notion of a prescribed route there, and this would be ‘wrong’ it would be contrary to your teacher’s instructions, so you persist in walking next to the waters for which you long, step, step, step, step, step, step… perhaps you will feel disheartened and defeated and give up in the end, or perhaps you will continue for ever, eternally failing, eternally missing your goal.”
A word about Theo. Thank you for that, too. I believe your account is the first time his story was revealed on the blog.
I want to assure you and others that doing the sequence is most certainly not the cause of Theo’s break with reality, which may be misconstrued from your post. I regard the sequence as fairly benign, and with the ‘right’ intention and understanding you could substitute your own words for the same temporary effect. (If you do so, I recommend changing the words monthly.) Theo’s symptoms fit the mold of the onset of schizophrenia. The symptoms typically commence between the ages of 17-21, about the time a person begins separating from their parents. Often the symptoms wax and wane, and can even go into remission for long periods. People afflicted often seem impervious to cold, can ‘read’ other’s thoughts, and have a wide-eyed wonder about them, as you might if you started having visual or auditory hallucinations. They often neglect their personal hygiene, and can emotionally and intellectually withdraw as well.
I hope you will continue posting, your voice here is invaluable.
“He does not know how to deal with dying people. When Peter Bishop was sick with Lung cancer “terminal” Robert went to visit him and asked Edi-th “Can he speak?” Peter from his sick bed replied “Yes”. The man has no idea and is afraid of dying. You can not lie around dying people they feel it, false personality is completely useless around dying people. Our Robert Burton does not have the being to deal with dying people, have you?
Have you spend 3 or more days with a terminal ill person.
Fat Boy that is a real “teaching”.”
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Yes, my friend, I sat with this for awhile, trying to sense what it is that we are ‘really’ doing by exposing Robert Burton’s non-conscious responses to events that would ‘normally’ (my normally) produce a type of reverence and quiet no-little-me awe…
I recall my Great grandmother’s death, how it floored all that was petty (and pretty) in me, how it vacuumed out all meaning in ‘my life’, how it showed me the no-thing-ness of everyone’s incredible tenacity to go, go, go… For she was certainly, profoundly staying, right where she was and would even go as far as to die there, so deep was her stillness that death seemed to be a natural ‘next step’…
I mystified my great grandmother’s death, yet, too, it was a sort of reflection-ing that had occurred in me as well, it did something to me; at first it ‘made me’ resentful of others taking life for granted, brought judgment of my parents and relatives immaturity in the whole matter, then it called down, I realized that it was all mine really, that even my grandmother dying was me somehow, because certainly I could not relate to it as she did… it was me seeing me; the rest was up to ‘her’ and the mysteries she took with her, both solved and simply hers.
One thing I do recall Robert Burton saying concerning Perter Bishop’s deathbed time was ~ “Now he is closer to my state.”
I also recall when he was being carried down the steps of the theatron by students and seated to watch the ballet;
I too remember how profoundly insane I thought it was that his experience was not seen as the ‘real ballet’ to watch; yet, this is Robert Burton’s style, to put silk pants on the Boatman of the River Styx, while he’s reaching out to you for the coin for safe passage over… Nothing personal Robert, these are simply observations, perhaps even a suggestion, that when someone is ending their role on this earth, try not to prolong the impression of yours by turning the dying and dead into lipstick dispensers.
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Hello 428/16 ~
So far as the Greaeagle apartment; not sure how old your information is, but that place was sold a very long time ago and was always in Goldman’s name. So far as the property being put in AG’s name; that sort of Jimmy Cricket sort of dancing around is not going to save the Fellowship of Friends from loosing it in a class action lawsuit, particularly when AG will be listed as one of the party’s being sued, alongside the Fellowship itself; think of class action lawsuits as ‘blind nets’, they drag the bottom of the whole lake, bringing up stuff that the fisherman may never have aimed to ‘catch’, though nevertheless is right there for the consideration.
If I were E. (Anna’s sister) and C., I’d be changing the co-signer on their house loan from Robert Burton to someone outside the inner circle; and rearrange the free land Robert Burton gave them to be something more profoundly ‘right looking’… Just a suggestion; that can also go for S.D. and M.D. across the street.
Although I do not hold the handles to the cloud maker; a storm is coming Grandpa, stop watching traffic, get off the rocker and get inside, “your house is on fire.”
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Hello 440/16 ~
Yes John, we’re (not sure about the ‘we’ part yet) working on it (I hope) ~ You too can assist, the letter section is up now
THANKS SHEIK for that, thank you very much.
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Hello 542/16 ~
Defending what we perceive as ‘the living’ to spite what we perceive as ‘the dead’ won’t help anyone, particularly Nick; everyone is still alive and well, even Brian: and no, he’s not pissed off at me.
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Hello 564/16 ~
Thank you Joseph G., thank you.
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Hello 520/16 ~
Anna, could you get in touch with me via the blog and give me an email address where I can reach you; I believe I can assist with Theo.
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P.S. Hello Sheik, I guess you did not get that long letter/reply to Fat Boy I sent about three/four days ago(?)
Thanks again for the letter section…
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“So far as the Greaeagle apartment; not sure how old your information is, but that place was sold a very long time ago and was always in Goldman’s name.”
“but Graeagle (Robert’s old Sierra Nevada apartment) and the Palm Springs apartment are/were in the name of Abe G.”
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It was the “are” that I thought was a bit ‘off’; “were” is closer to the current situation.
Thanks to Ann T#520 for her earnest and beautiful post and also to Life Person #558 for an excellent, slap-in-the-face description of Robert Earl Burton.
I suggest printing and distributing these in the Fellowship and the community at large.
Thanks for sharing this long slice of your life and for being honest about your perceptions and feelings during that times.
Just before I left , I was speaking with some friends (some are still in) and we came to the conclusion that it was like if the teacher was selling us the air we are breathing.
I make this comparison with what you said “ you cannot find something which is already there”.
This is quite a liberation to think that this can be so easily within reach.
During your time in the fof, I remember you were quite pretty, now you are beautiful.
The best to you.
Aline
Your post has made me laugh with great joy since I started participating on the blog. In fact I have not experienced this much joy in years. I am delighted with your freedom.
From one angle having been in the fellowship is similar to the situation of people that have been on drugs for years. It then takes years to recover one’s self enough to start experiencing normality as “alright”.
I’m wishing to address your plea to Parson’s about how to regain the experience of oneness not because I have reached it but because I’m also looking for it!
My first three months in the fellowship were not too different to your friend Theo’s experience. In fact, every angle I ever gave in meetings was trying to return to the fellowship those experiences that the fellowship had given me.
The last six years in Isis I lost most traces of that beauty but I am not overly disappointed by that.
Many of you mention how presence is there and need not be looked for. Or how it came to one, somewhat out of nowhere.
In my case always some effort before but the quality of the state was way beyond the effort so immense gratitude accompanied them.
We’ve been concentrating on focusing the I for years and reaching some higher states, great states of understanding mostly of the unity of things but the states come without our will as if a deeper, higher dimension suddenly walked into our little being.
I don’t need to say we, so it is fine to say I but by your experience Anna, I can see that it is very similar to mine and probably a lot of other students, who have described it similarly.
You mention the great separation between higher and lower centers and indeed, while I may agree looking from that angle, what is it that is needed for us to bring them together so that the high state is not simply a flitting experience but we fill the ordinary moments of our life with the unity and intensity of the high state?
This concerns me because I have long seen a tendency to look for those states like drug addicts without giving more meaning to the practical world of our every day life and I am convinced that it is in our every day life, in this world with all its difficulties that meaning has to be brought from and to.
Allow my disperse mind to give fleeting ideas, maybe others will put them together in better order.
One of the points for me is that in a higher state one knows unity while in the low state one knows separation. Separation is imaginary in as much as we have bought them from our programming. We’ve committed ourselves to competing with each other, to separating ourselves in classes of every kind, money, education, alchemy and so forth.
In a higher state the perception of one’s oneness with the rest of human beings is actualized, in fact. the living experience of one’s humanity is actualized as an inseparate entity to other human beings but in the lower state we are separated. What and how then can we actualize these understanding of our bondness if not with re-connecting? Like in this blog?
My question is: It is more than fine to experience the beauty of oneness in a high state but is it not less fine to practice the beauty of connecting with each other and theworld around us in the lower state, of actually practicing the understanding of one’s being?
I am not talking about it theoretically. It is not just pretty. In a way what is amazing about Robert Burton is that to me everything he said was right, the individual approach to consciousness was acurate but he then separated us from the world to practice it, he divided us into different classes of citizens, he used us against each other and ourselves and he violated the integrity of every man he bought and ours who supported him.
It was not the theory in as much as the individual is concerned what was so absurd, it was the fact that he stripped the individual from the world outside and in so doing, took away his being because it is in the interaction with the world outside that being can develop in the fourth way.
Thank you Anna and all of you for this morning’s bread!
on 28 Jul 2007 at 12:56 am
545 Hans
Hello,
I have a question, why to blame others for our mistakes and decisions?
so, if you decided to do something, be a man, and be responsible for your own decisions and mistakes and do not blame others.
Bullshit
Speaking the truth
is part of healing
Telling the The victims of abuse to not blame the perpetrators is like telling the victim of a crime not to report it to the police and go through the criminal prosecution process but to be forgiving.
These are general principals the blog is specific
it is about a specific group of criminal co conspirators who systematically used the cover of the 4th way and the Gurdjieff Ouspensky teachings to create a form of pyrimad scheme that functions to enrich and empower a mad man at the center of a web of deception and lies.
Perhaps a use for positive imagination is to attempt to visualize what the Fellowship of Friends might have been if Robert was not mad. What if all the money did not go to his personal uses, his debauchery, his excessive spending on items of poor taste, poorly conceived and even more poorly executed octaves. What if instead he used the funds for adequate housing, supporting the vineyards instead of milking them dry. Rebuilding the restaurant.
Well what ifs are useless in the real world except to understand some of the consequences of his madness in regards to the group and the individuals he lied to , misled , marginalized an raped.
In the Fellowship from what I understand freedom of speah is limited. The blog has a pre eminent function of allowing freedom of speech and the circulation of the facts, the truth about the criminal Robert Burton and his co conspirators who control the false “4th way school” called the Fellowship of Friends.
Although it is 10 years later; all of this article is still applicable today and then some…
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Fellowship Of Friends-A Cult In Oregon House, California.
Another lawsuit filed against F.O.F/Renaissance Vineyard &
Winery, Robert Burton, Girard Haven, Abraham Goldman, Helga
Ruth Mueller, and Clair Bowen–directors of Fellowship of
Friends, Inc. The lawsuit brought by Troy Buzbee and filed
on April 29, 1996 in the County of Yuba.
Complaint for Damages is in Case # 060209
1. Fraud
2. Intentional infliction of emotional distress
3. Negligent infliction of emotional distress
4. Breach of fiduciary duty
5. Negligent supervision
6. Sexual misconduct with a minor
7. Sexual harassment
8. Wrongful discharge
9. Negligence
10. Failure to pay minimum wage
11. Battery
Fellowship Of Friends Cult – By Michelle M. Milligan
“Within the pages of the case are facts and details concerning sexual and perverted acts practiced by Burton, his philosophies and ideologies expected of the members.”
According to the case, Robert Burton, “The Teacher”, as referred to by members, began the corporation Fellowship of Friends in 1971.
The “Fourth Way philosophy is taught and practiced by the Fellowship of Friends. The location of The Fellowship of Friends herein referred to as the F.O.F. is in Oregon House, however the F.O.F. refers to their location rather as “The Renaissance”.
Troy Buzbee’s father became a member of the F.O.F. in 1976. Richard Buzbee’s son Troy was only seven years of age. Richard Buzbee was told that if he paid his teaching payments each month and followed the tasks and suggestions of the teacher, Robert Burton that he would
enter “the way,” become “conscious” and “immortal.” He was told that Burton was a “conscious being” and that he was “celibate.” He was told that he could trust Burton completely with his body and soul.
From 1976 through May 1994 Troy’s father was a member of the Fellowship of Friends. As Plaintiff Troy Buzbee grew up he regarded Robert Burton as a God.
According to the case distinction between Burton and Troy’s father were not clear to him at times. Troy Buzbee became a member on October 10, 1966 when he was 17 years of age, virgin.
After Defendant Burton and Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends, INC’s factual representations and undue influence caused Troy Buzbee to lose his ability to think independently, he became increasingly subject to the domination, control and undue influence practiced, implemented, and used by said Defendants.
In direct consequence of such deception, coercive persuasion, brainwashing and undue influence, Defendant Burton used Troy Buzbee, among hundreds of
other young men, for the partial gratification of his satyriasis, an uncontrollable compulsion to engage in sexual conduct with scores, if not hundreds, of men. In addition thereof, Defendant Burton exploited Troy Buzbee for the provision of cheap labor, well under the minimum
wage.
Said exploitation continued off and on until the time when Troy Buzbee terminated his membership with Fellowship of Friends, Inc., in August 1994.
Commencing in December 1986, Burton, would have “teaching dinners” during which he would ply Troy with alcoholic beverages. After one particular such meal in December 1986, Burton instructed Troy to come to Burton’s room and to shut and lock the door. Burton told Troy that
Burton was “an angel in a man’s body”, and the gods wished for Troy to be close to Burton. Defendant Burton then held in an embrace.
Defendant Burton said, “influence C wishes you to be close with me. “He repeatedly assured Troy that his “soul was not (his) body, and that the angels wished for (Troy) to be with (Burton).” Burton explicitly told Troy that the “angels” wanted Troy to disrobe, and the “angels” wanted Troy to submit to Burton’s sexual advances because Burton himself was an “angel”, a goddess in a man’s body.”
Burton said to Troy, “I promise you I am an angel in a man’s body.” “You have to remember that I did not write the play about Robert Burton.” Burton would kiss Troy on the forehead which he said represented the seat of the soul and then instruct Troy to “separate” from his body and just “let go”. Burton reminded Troy that Troy’s
body would soon decay while his soul was immortal.
Burton told Troy that he would talk to him after he died using the same soft voice he used at the time. Burton explained that for him the interaction with Troy went beyond conventional sex and into “supersex”, which was a
method characterological evolution.
Defendant Burton stated, “My
sexuality is on the level of Super-Sex.” From December ‘86–April ‘94, Troy submitted to Burton’s demands, which were: Drop out of college, provide Burton with sexual favors and provide hour long massages after Burton had been sexually serviced.
Burton used money from the corporation to pay other members for performing specific sexual acts. In denominations of $50 or $100.
The case mentions one case of “specific sexual acts” performed on Burton by Karl Feldman, Troy Buzbee’s best friend. Burton spoke openly about his sexuality in the form of jokes at the all-male dinners that he would often lavishly host at all-male, all-you-can-drink “symposiums.” He would boast that “one hundred boys would not be enough(for his sexual appetite).”
Troy worked at the gatehouse on F.O.F. property. Burton directed certain members who are “guards” to arm themselves with firearm-type weapons. Burton then had him become his “personal” guard. During the next four years Troy observed numerous men in Burton’s room in a single night. Troy was asked to massage Burton after his lovers left.
According to the case, Burton suffers from sexually transmitted diseases. He made no effort to tell Troy. As a consequence, Troy acquired viral herpes. In addition, Troy suffered from stomach ulcers.
Renaissance Vineyard & Winery, Inc. was built as a bomb-
shelter in obeisance to Defendant Burton’s prophecies regarding massive and wide-spread disaster and chaos in the near future.
Defendant Burton uses Renaissance Vineyard & Winery, Inc as his alter ego in the same way he uses Defendant Fellowship Of Friends, Inc.
According to the case…..
At all times mentioned herein Defendants Girard Haven, Abraham Goldman (also an attorney), Helga Ruth Mueller, and Clair Bowen were members of the board of directors of the Defendant corporation, Fellowship Of Friends, INC.
At all times mentioned herein all of the Defendants were acting as the agents and servants of each other and in doing the acts complained of acted within the scope of their agency and employment and at the direction and with the knowledge and ratification of the other Defendants.
The Defendant Burton at all times mentioned herein, dominated, influenced, and controlled, and does now dominate, influence and control the Defendant corporations and the directors and officers thereof, as well as the business, property and affairs of the Defendant corporations.
At all times mentioned herein, there existed and does now exist, a unity of interest and ownership between the Defendant Burton and the Defendant corporations; the individuality and separateness of said Defendant and Defendant corporations has ceased; and despite
knowledge of these facts, Defendant corporations and its officers and directors have had notice of acquiesced in and agreed, consented to, and ratified the conduct of Defendant Burton as herein alleged,
At all times since its corporation to the present time, the Defendant corporations have been and are now a mere shell and naked framework which the Defendant Burton has used and does now use as a conduit for the conduct of his personal business, property and affairs.
Defendant corporations are subject to a unity of control, and its corporate structure was created as an attempt to avoid payment of taxes and civil judgments and to confuse courts and those seeking redress for these Defendant’s acts. Due to the unity of personnel, commingling of assets, and commonality of business objectives, these Defendant’s attempts at separation of Defendant corporations and
Defendant Burton should be disregarded.
Defendant Robert Burton directs, controls and operates Defendant corporations and uses them to enforce his orders and carry out his attacks on groups, agencies or individuals, including the acts against Troy alleged herein, to the extent there is no separate identity between Burton and said Defendant corporations and any claim of such separate identity should be disregarded.
The Defendant corporations were created and are being continued and maintained pursuant to a fraudulent plant, scheme and device, created and operated by the Defendant Burton, whereby the benefits and
product of the income and revenue of the Defendant corporations are diverted to the use and enjoyment of the Defendant Burton through the Defendant corporations to himself while concealing the truth of his financial relationship with Defendant corporations.
Prior to the formation of F.O.F. and Renaissance Vineyard & Winery, Burton formed a conspiracy in concert between the corporations for the express purpose and intent of developing and implementing a plan and scheme which would permit Burton and co-conspirators to:
a. use, abuse and exploit the fiduciary relationship between the Defendant Burton and the Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends, INC,, on one hand and the members of and contributors to the Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends, INC,, on the other hand
for their own personal unlawful gain; and
b. to use, abuse and exploit the fiduciary relationship between the Defendant Burton, as ‘founding minister’, and selective members of the Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends, INC., for the express purpose and intent of performing unlawful and perverted sexual acts upon the persons of said members, including Troy, and by causing certain of the members, including Troy, to work for Defendant corporation Renaissance Vineyard & Winery, INC.,
and Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends, INC.
That all times pertinent hereto, the Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends, INC., and the Defendant Renaissance Vineyard and Winery, INC, were formed and operated by Burton and said other Defendants for their sole and exclusive aggrandizement and to create an ambiance of neo-religious import which was and is currently being used by Burton and the other Defendants to manipulate, unduly influence, and control the minds, bodies, and the assets of the members of the Defendant
corporations for the sole and exclusive purpose of 1) satisfying Burton’s satyriasis-his voracious appetite for perverted sexual pleasure and elegant life-style; and
2) diverting the contributions and donations of the membership to their own use and purposes.
Members of the Fellowship are required to donate ever-increasing sums of money as they become further and further vested as members of the Fellowship with the caveat that when donations required of them are
not timely and completely made their membership is either revoked or they become indentured servants of the Defendant corporation in residence at its principal place of business for nominal compensation and required to perform degrading menial tasks of a full-time basis
at the whim and caprice of the Defendant Burton
and other authorized representatives of the corporate Defendant Fellowship Of Friends, INC., and Defendant Renaissance Vineyard And Winery, INC.
All donations made by members of the Fellowship are devoted either to the continuing worldwide recruitment of new and replacement members with fresh money to contribute to “the cause,” or the acquisition of assets, including but not limited to, Defendant Renaissance Vineyard and Winery, INC,
which are ostensibly being acquired for the use and
benefit of the membership but which are in reality being acquired for the personal benefit and aggrandizement of Defendant Burton and some or all of the other individual Defendants named herein.
Meanwhile, Defendant Burton annexes free and unfettered use and enjoyment in and to the assets of the Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends, INC., Defendant corporation Renaissance Vineyard And Winery, INC., and the benefits to be derived there from, including, but not limited to, the provision money for bribes to young male members to prostitute themselves in an intensification of
Defendant Burton’s compulsion and demand for sexual servicing of his long-standing state of satyriasis.
The entire, purpose, scope and extent of the aforesaid plan and scheme as implemented by said Defendants is to effectively deny the members of the Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends, INC., not only the right to participate in its rituals and teachings on an ongoing basis but also, and of equal importance, to deny members of said Defendant corporation, including Plaintiff, of their just right to participate as beneficiaries entitled to use and enjoy
the property of said Defendant corporation.
Troy suffered from fright, horror, grief, shame, anger, humiliation, embarrassment, chagrin, disappointment, worry, self-loathing, self-betrayal and self distrust.
Haven, Goldman Mueller, Bowen knew of all these afore-mentioned practices of Burton.
They have agreed and abetted Burton in his efforts. They knew of Burton’s diseases and said nothing.
At all times pertinent hereto, Defendant Burton, and the other Defendants, caused Troy’s mental and emotional centers to become deceptively and coercively inculcated with the following tenets:
a. Defendant Burton communicated with “C-influence” which was provided by “44 angels” which were each individually named including, but not limited to, Jesus, “Benjamin Franklin,” “Lincoln” and “Bach,”
and that Burton was the Fellowship’s only connection with
said “angels.”
b. Defendant was and is the most important person on the planet since Christ.
Defendant Burton claims a numerology of consciousness where he has already advanced to a man number 7.3, with Christ being a man number 8.
Burton is above man-made laws, a moral law unto himself.
c. “C-influence” brought Troy to the Fellowship and Defendant Burton, and that Troy’s interactions with Defendant Burton would be the most important relationship that Troy could ever have.
d. Defendant Burton is assisted by “C-influence” to guide the spiritual evolution of the member “students” with “shocks” designed to help them “awaken”.
e. The members of the Fellowship are special, and set apart by higher forces for survival. Members of Defendant Burton’s “inner circle” must associate only among Fellowship members must disregard non-members, and demonize ex-members who are critical of Burton whom “the =gods” will “destroy.”
Such ex-members’ opportunities for growth and
development are terminated failing to submit to Burton.
f. Defendant Burton possesses gift of prophecy that is infallible.
g. In 1998 California will “fall” in huge earthquake whereupon people will die in massive numbers.
h. In 2006 there will be an Armageddon, where all humans everywhere except for members of the Fellowship will be expunged by higher forces.
i. Members of the Fellowship will inherit the world’s material goods and act as the “Ark” for a new civilization based on that of the Greeks of about 450 B.C., and are thus presently preparing themselves to bear the torch of civilization now and in the future.
j. By following Defendant Burton’s directives so as to gain “being” (depth of character) through separating from suffering and immersing themselves in culture, mostly Western art, classical music, opera and ballet, Fellowship members, including Troy, are preparing themselves
for being the “Ark”.
k. Everything the members of the Fellowship, including Troy, had learned since birth was “false” and caused him to exist in a kind of “waking sleep.”
The Defendant Burton informed Troy that in order
to “awaken”, he had to replace what was “false” with what was “true” which was defined as the system of ideas as The Fourth Way, including all the “new” knowledge that Burton had added to that system.
l. Defendant Burton stated, and states, to the general Fellowship and to Troy, that without “C-influence” Troy could not “awaken”.
m. Defendant Burton stated, and states, to the general Fellowship and to Troy, that to “awaken” was the only way to avoid having the purpose of his life be to provide “food for the moon.”
n. Defendant Burton stated, and states, that Troy’s people outside the group as “life-people,” he said were “tragedies.” Burton said Troy’s own mother was such a “life-person” and that the Fellowship was Troy’s “real” family and Burton was his “Father.”
o. Defendant Burton stated, and states, to the general Fellowship and to Troy, that any challenge to the extent of Burton’s excesses of greed and satyriasis to be a lack of understanding of his practice of “crazy wisdom” which he asserts that he must force himself to perform is forcing himself to live that way for the good of the members as a “lesson.”
Thanks for your input. I have to say, from my perspective as a foot soldier on the ground here, “with all due respect Sir, it does seem to be solution for myself and for so many of my Friends.”
Perhaps this is true. It does not resonate with me. If you read Anna T’s most excellent story I have experienced the condition of “awakening” several times. The one she described witnessing in her young student is one I experienced myself.
About 1995 I went through a process over a period of several weeks which eventually peaked with a moment of oneness with the creater. Fortunately I had the system to assist in keeping “grounded”. I learned a number of things. One was that when higher centers function, when what we call “higher states” are circulating it is the lower centers that limits what can be processed. There is misinterpretation, imagination, and magical thinking, as well as new insights, greater attention, and a more complete consciousness.
Being able to sustain higher states requires the development of “being”. That is the lower functions.This is not theory. This is my reality. The single most valuable experience I had in “awakening” was to have a benchmark to compare my “normal” state to . In other words ,for me true awakening is a realization of my own sleep.
For myself I believe Robert Burton did experience an awakening in the early “70’s but failed to develop the being in the lower functions to sustain the higher states and the humility to accept the realization of his own sleep.
When I read lengthy post’s ( like #573 I think is worth a reading…)
It does nothing for me, provides no new insight’s. This however does not mean it may not be what you describe the next step for Fellowship Members who have grown rigid in their thinking and understanding who need something to stimulate “thinking in a new way” and opening themselves up to new experiences.
Anna’s story resonates with me because it agrees with my own experience.
Now here comes this idiot savant.
The most positive aspect of the blog is the telling of the truth about Robert Burton and his crimes.
The second is the true process of healing
which includes the discharge of the poisons that have corrupted the inner being of Members and former members.
The Christ said in the gospel of Thomas “make the inner as the outer and the outer as the inner”
True healing in this context includes accepting and processing the internal contradictions fostered in the Fellowship and making them external.
That these expressions come out negative is not in itself a negative action. It is a process of discharging this negative contradictory material ,what is literally the waste matter of an ongoing inner process of digesting the experiences of the past and moving towards a new and higher understanding.
394 Medicine Man
To all who are interested in HEALING
this blog and the whole situation,
please, READ CAREFULLY!
on 26 Jul 2007 at 12:01 am
359 C influence
To all currant Fellowship of Friends members
As a divine messenger from higher mind I have a task to pass on specific information.
I am not a teacher and will accept no students.
The prophecies were a test to see if you would stay loyal to the school.
You passed as a reward you are here by given permission to Remember yourselves and enjoy the rewards of your efforts. No depression, earthquakes or nuclear war now what?
Robert Burton was entrusted with the care of our little nursery for souls and has abused that trust.
Have no fear, there is justice and you and he will all get exactly what you earned.
The next step in your development is simple-Be the words
I now absent myself from this blog
The true teachers are amongst you
Seek and you shall find
Ask and it shall be delivered unto you
“The way to liberation is to train yourself to live in the present without
waiting to become anything. Give up becoming this or that, live without
cravings, and experience this present moment with full attention.”
The Buddha
This post is exactly why I cannot find much of value in this approach. Saying words cannot describe something then introducing an entire system of sophist though that supports this premise and goes on and on is a trap. I don’t question the reality of being I question the need for yet another new form.
24 Duncan: “I learned a number of things. One was that when higher centers function, when what we call “higher states” are circulating it is the lower centers that limits what can be processed….Being able to sustain higher states requires the development of “being”. That is the lower functions.”
Many of us have had experiences of higher states like you describe. And it may well be that they are limited by “lower functions”. Trouble is that these states are unususual and unsustainable whatever you do. I’ve never met anyone who’s in a permanent higher state, have you?
But as has been said here many times it doesn’t matter anyway as we’re all permanently in presence/awareness whether or not we like it or realise it.
It seems to me that in the late 70’s those in the know passed it down that Robert Burton said that we (Fellowship members) had about four years to save our money because of an impending economic depression.
This reason I remember this is because I told somebody outside the Fellowship of Friends.
I dont know what he did with that passed on information if anything, but since reading this blog, I hope he didnt do anything. I havent spoken to him since and doubt whether he remembers.
The point is that in my estimation 1981-1982 the economy according to the passed on information was going into hard times.
Now I think that the law of seven kick in and Robert Burton went down and headed the other way.
May I suggest, while I get some practical emails sent to my natural father, that you all try – Google – ‘bi-polar affective disorder – artists’. It will give you insight into the ‘agony and the ecstasy’ that REB talked about – maybe he has ‘the Force’ – but abusing it. I am absolutely sure that Walt Whitman suffered from the disorder – what is normal anyway? Average or just plain boring? ‘Be yourself, neither feign affection’ – Desiderata. Oh, decisions decisions. All the best with The Quest until I post again……………Nigel.
Bass Ackwards 57 “So, for any student who has been around 10, 20 or 30 years, we know that Presence is IT. And we buy into the “Cult” side of things to varying degrees, each to his own propensity. For all those who are not crystallized Howard Carters, understanding someone like Maharaj (Nisargadatta) can be the ultimate and freeing ray of light.”
Funny, three of us were discussing this over dinner last night. One consenus-type thought was that the word Presence means two utterly different things in the teachings of the FoF and of Nisargadatta. What happened to us when we first got into this a year or so ago is that initially there were some attempts to see similarities, but as all the old FoF anf Fourth Way concepts dropped away (wonderful feeling!), we saw the futility of all that.
Ironically, today I received a letter to my home address from Wells Fargo for someone with the first name of “Hafiz”. I chuckled to myself. Don’t think that if you leave the Fellowship of Friends that you leave the school, or that synchronicity magically ceases. It’s all whether you choose to interpret, spin, or ignore it that matters. It created a nice moment for me, and then I moved on to the next moment with a smile.
Dear Rhino Neal ~#280:
“Being able to sustain higher states requires the development of “being”. That is the lower functions. Many of us have had experiences of higher states like you describe. And it may well be that they are limited by “lower functions”. Trouble is that these states are unusual and unsustainable whatever you do. I’ve never met anyone who’s in a permanent higher state, have you? But as has been said here many times it doesn’t matter anyway as we’re all permanently in presence/awareness whether or not we like it or realize it.”
I don’t believe that higher states are limited by the lower centers. In fact the lower centers are enhanced by higher states, in a systemic or holistic way. Otherwise, higher states would make us insane, which is sometimes the case in the unprepared or novice.
It’s your acquired personality that would limit the state by identifying with it. You run the risk of being deluded as Franz Anton Mesmer who believed that he was the sole source ofthe ‘animal magnetism’ that he used to cure people. He did not know himself. And by the same token, one’s lack of self-respect or lack of self-esteem (lack of healthy narcissism, that is) would prohibit one from recognizing that we are all indeed conscious all the time anyway. Without healthy narcissism we are prone to look for that validation outside of ourselves from an authority figure. If we pay someone, such as Robert Burton to tell us we are in a higher state, then what a great business! Paying someone to recognize something we already have! You can get that here for free.
Just being present for one’s own personal gratification will limit your higher states, for there is no utility there for the Conscious Aspect of the Ray of Creation, you must participate in the ‘flow of things back to their source’ so to speak. They are a gift and you must pass that gift along to be gifted more.
So IMO unless you are investing that higher state in the other two lines of work, you eventually will hit a wall. The other two lines of work are not independent of higher states! IMO, if your higher states are intermittent, then you do not have the other two lines of work functioning properly for yourself.
If you open your eyes a little wider, look around the world (or your community), you see that there’s lots of work to be done-or undone as the case may be. Choose a good cause for your third line, surround yourself with loving friends (or create a loving family for yourself like I did) and you will do swimmingly well. Keep to your aim of realizing yourself in the present, always and everywhere, and you will attain spiritual virtuosity. The Fellowship and the fourth way diverged paths long ago. I hope you can tease out the gems of the fourth way as you move on done the road here. These I have verified for myself; they work, even though I parted with the Fellowship of Friends 22 years ago.
The only way I have found to sustain a higher state for my first line of work exclusively, without the use of drugs or lunatic efforts, is Holotropic Breathing, which, BTW I only recommend, and am not in the business of facilitating. It’s a real trip! But hey, don’t listen to me; I’m just an old fart. Check it out for yourself.
I was working on editing material for a
“performance Art piece” based on “Leaves of Grass’
While editing “Song of Myself” it came to me why I am offended at the non-dualists. It is nothing in the information which I generally agree with it is that in my opinion the majority of Fellowship of Friends both past and present have sufficient information what is lacking is being. That specific being which the 4th way is supposed to help develop ,individuality, consciousness, conscience and will. I am offended by the idea of continuing to look outside themselves for what can only be found internally.
Perhaps Bass Ackwards is right and a new approach is needed.
I question whether more words is the solution to a lack of effort to be the words.
Walt Whitman wrote
“I celebrate myself, and sing myself,
And what I assume you shall assume
For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.
I loafe and invite my soul,
I lean and loafe at my ease observing
a spear of summer grass.
My tongue, every atom of my blood,
form’d from this soil, this air,
Creeds and schools in abeyance,
Retiring back a while sufficed at what they are,
but never forgotten,
I harbor for good or bad,
I permit to speak at every hazard,
Nature without check with original energy.
Have you reckon’d a thousand acres much?
have you reckon’d the earth much?
Have you practis’d so long to learn to read?
Have you felt so proud to get at the meaning of poems?
Stop this day and night with me
and you shall possess the origin of all poems,
You shall possess the good of the earth and sun,
(there are millions of suns left,)
You shall no longer take things at second or third hand,
nor look through the eyes of the dead,
nor feed on the spectres in books,
You shall not look through my eyes either,
nor take things from me,
You shall listen to all sides and filter them from your self. 3
There is a rule-of-thumb of espionage which goes:
Observe the facts,
ONLY the facts,
and extrapolate backwards to discover WHO benefits from a given situation,
and this will give you the key to the underlying truth.
James (I’ll be) Blunt – BACK TO BEDLAM – first track – Beautiful Dawn – Oh ! Brave new world, that hath such people in’t (Amanda – The Tempest by William shakespeare) – Second Track – My LIFE IS BRED – MY LIFE IS PURE – Hard to contain myself – NIRVANA PERMANENT _ Jayne confirmed it – Rodney Collin – “We must let Divine Madness take hold of us now, before Hell freezes over” – and if you go through Hell in your LIFE, go fast and furious so as not to be consumed by the flames – BUT QUENCH THE FIRE – ONCE AND FOR ALL (FOR YOURSELF).
My crime in California was being made illegal (after an honourable start with an H1 visa for a year – but made defunct by unscrupulous employers and incompetent legalisers) – with not enough money to turn back to the UK and the need to press on (still that extra mile – ABBA [our Father] – I BELIEVE IN ANGELS.
And God becomes sick of bland saints and those with no character (even Empire Storm Troopers – Robert’s Robots – to refer to a popular character in a comic magazine of my youth).
Fallen beings deserve saving – the lost lambs? – figure it out for yourself. Peter Pandaemonium/Peter Panacea. Nigel.
It is a paradox (and yet not). Non-dualists speak from the perspective of dissolving the delusury individual perspective while Whitman seems to promote and exalt the personal experience. Both are expressing the same “something” (no-thing).
Ken Wilber has written and speaks often of the need to develope higher “cognitive structures” (being) and has catagorized a hierarchy from modern developmental psychology. He posits that this developement is necessary to contain , maintain and translate higher states that occur.
Perhaps you have looked at his work? I think you would find fascinating.
BTW, for the last five and a half years, my third line of work was my in depth involvement in a cooperative, parent-participation nursery school where my kids attended. (For Scott, it’s the twelve step program, it’s whatever works for you, as long as you believe in it.) Being there for 3-5 year old children as a mentor was a joyful, challenging, and rewarding experience, providing many shocks and greatly rounding out my understanding of myself, human development, and human nature. I highly recommend it, if you are starting out with kids. It is well worth the investment of time. I believe I made as much a difference in those kid’s lives and they did in mine.
***********
What is the self that you remember the non-dualists ask? IMO, it is the particle of consciousness that you have been leased to grow while you walk on the planet. (Guess that makes me a material guy in a material world.) It is your personal and temporary point of singularity, the spectrum of which can extend from the vortex of a back hole to a radiant star. It has nothing to do with your tastes, your desires, your dreams, or the sum of your knowledge. You carry it with you always, and if you hold it too tightly, it falls through your fingers like sand. You can turn it up or down, but it doesn’t shut completely off until the end when it returns to its source. Look at life around you, how could it be otherwise? Just like a chard from a holographic plate or the DNA code contained in one cell, if you focus on it intently, it will recreate the entire paradigm from which it is derived. Some call it the soul. It weighs 21 grams…the difference in body weight between life and death.
This NOURISHMENT from Rushkin follows your ‘wake-up’ call (35).
FRONDES AGRESTES
Section 1 (from a previously Sectioned Being Under the Mental Health Act)
Principles of Art:-
3. It is the common consent of men that whatever branch of PURSUIT ministers to the bodily comforts, and regards material uses, is ignoble, and whatever part is addressed to the MIND only, is noble; and that geology does better in reclothing dry bones and REVEALING LOST CREATIONS, than in tracing veins of lead and beds of iron; astronomy (listen Hugh Lusted!) better in opening to us the houses of heaven, than in teaching navigation; botany better in displaying STRUCTURE (Burton, you spineless jellyfish) than in expressing juices (ditto!); surgery better in investigating organisation than in setting limbs.- Only it is ordained that, for our encouragement, every step we make in the more EXALTED range of SCIENCE (Ken Branagh – I, big nose, Know) adds something to its PRACTICAL POSSIBILITIES; that all the great phenomena of nature, the knowledge of which is desired by THE ANGELS only, by us partly, as it reveals to farther vision the being and glory of Him in whom they rejoice and we live, dispense yet such KIND INFLUENCES and so much of material blessing as to be joyfully felt by all inferior creatures, and to be desired by them with such SINGLE DESIRE as the imperfection of their nature may admit; that the STRONG TORRENTS (Dopamine Overload – listen, Frank Aniseed ball – no placebos for me – I want the real pill – Huey Lewis “I want a new drug, one that won’t make me sick”), which in their own gladness, fill the hills with hollow thunder, and the value of winding LIGHT (Jesus Christ abstracted), have yet their bounden CHARGE OF FIELD to feed and barge to bear; that the fierce flames to which the Alps owes its upheaval and the volcano its terror, temper for the metal vein, and warm the quickening spring; and that for our incitement, I say, not our reward, – FOR KNOWLEDGE IS ITS OWN REWARD, -herbs have their healing, stones their preciousness, and stars their times.”
Welcome to the WORLD of your possibilities, America.
“Turn, O Libertad” – WW (III?)
Nigel Harris Wallace ap Rhys. (that’s fighting talk-name!).
Dear, “a former student” #33
Non Dualism includes by definition everything and no-thing, including the concepts you outline. The individuality you promote is a dream within consciousness as are you.
Much Love,
Ryan
I didn’t know that Brian Sisler was schizophrenic until he left the Fellowship
Sooooooo many people are diagnosed with schizophrenic.
So many tender souls are diagnosed with words. Have you ever spent time with them. They are also “Teachers” Try it out. Especially listen to them, be with them without judging or trying to put your personality forward.
Many people I know who are being diagnosed as schizophrenic are very sensitive people, who might hear voices and speak with not invisible energies. Who else in the fellowship is doing that too? Is n’t he also medicated heavily?
Please forget the labeling and please do not react negatively to this entry.
Keep the good memories up from Brian and wish him peace.
Burton (softly) said, “We are all slowly reaching the Finish Line”. We of the TRUE spirituality are slowly ‘laying it on the line’ to FINISH off Burton, ONCE AND FOR ALL. No more Foffing…………………………Champion the Wonder (Pack) Horse. xxxxx
To 41 Another Name
Russell Crowe “A Beautiful Mind” (good film – recommended)
“It is only in the metaphysical realms of Love that True Logic can be found – I am, because You ARE!”
I think I know what you mean….I just said ” it is worth a reading”…also Lao Tsu said the the real Tao is that one can not be spoken of and then he wrote 98 verses….It is quite ironic no!!
16#81 The Letter in Question
on 23 Jul 2007 at 8:50 pm
Mentions U.S. Internal Revenue Service (IRS),
U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS),
U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS),
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE),
U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI),
California Governor’s Office,
California Attorney General’s Office.
It is the duty of the Attorney General to see that the laws of the state are uniformly and adequately enforced (California Constitution, Article V, Section 13.) The Attorney General carries out responsibilities of the office through the California Department of Justice.
******
CA AG WhistleBlower Hotline:
(800) 952-5225 or (916) 322-3360
******
[Current CA Attorney General is Edmund G. (Jerry) Brown Jr.
He is the son of a former CA State Governor, a former CA State Governor, a former CA Secretary of State, former Mayor of Oakland, but somewhat more importantly: 'completed his freshman year at the University of Santa Clara before entering Sacred Heart Novitiate, a Jesuit seminary in August 1956. Two years later, he took vows of poverty, chastity and obedience. In 1960, he left the Society of Jesus and enrolled at the University of California at Berkeley. He received his B.A. degree in Classics the next year and then entered Yale Law School, where he graduated in 1964.' So, he knows a bit about religious life as well as law. Additionally: 'spent six months in Japan studying Japanese culture and Buddhist practice, worked with Mother Teresa in India at the Home for the Dying.' Check out his bio for more detail: http://ag.ca.gov/ag/brown.php ]
But the posting missed one rather important entity:
California Secretary of State
(Debra Bowen) who,
among other things, is responsible thus:
*Grants the authority to do business in California…
*Administers the Victims of Corporate Fraud Compensation Fund (VCFCF) from which court-ordered restitution is provided.
*Confidential address program helps protect the identities of survivors of domestic violence, sexual assault…
The Secretary of State serves as the custodian of records for corporate records filed with this office.
The Business Entities Section is responsible for:
* examining, processing, filing and maintaining documents relating to the formation of California (domestic) corporations, the qualification of foreign (out of state or country) corporations to transact business in California, and any amendments to the records of the domestic or qualified foreign corporations;
* responding to inquiries relating to status or other information concerning corporations of record;
* providing certificates (of status or filing) and copies of corporate documents upon request; and…
General provisions governing most corporations are found in the California Corporations Code:
See:
See: 9110 (domestic nonprofit religious corporations)
PART 4. NONPROFIT RELIGIOUS CORPORATIONS
In the aim to put an end to the Robert Earl Burton brand of SPIRITUAL TERRORISM, called the Fellowship of Friends, Inc., a California nonprofit religious corporation, you can attempt to remove the foundational corner stone by getting its corporate status revoked as being fraudulent. Then the whole house of cards collapses under its own weight. [Try and find the jokers then.]
Please don’t react negatively to my message either. (I can play that game too.) Yes, there’s more to individuals who are diagnosed “schizophrenic” than just the medical diagnosis, and I have spent time with schizophrenics. There are techniques that can help people to not be put out of balance by their perceptions, and that can help them to distinguish helpful voices from destructive voices. And, yes, I have spent time with schizophrenic individuals. But the medical diagnosis and treatment is useful and even essential because the schizophrenic experience is usually very destructive to the person’s ordinary life. Brian Sisler killed himself, remember. He lived in squalor in a hut. When I tried to use his bathroom once, it was filthy and I had to leave after a few seconds because I was about to vomit.
The FOF has no idea how to deal with students who are mentally ill. The only recommendation is “keep taking the pills” which isn’t bad advice, but is somewhat limited, especially as most mentally ill people stop taking their medication from time to time. If a student has a psychotic episode, the FOF treatment is a leave of absence, i.e. temporary expulsion, come back when you’re better. If the student is in Isis, he or she is either sent home, or sent to Eth_n to get more pills. Once the student is put on leave, Ph_l_p L_c_s says, “Yep, the guy’s crazy alright” and everyone involved with security or legality becomes very concerned about not letting the poor guy onto the property in case he wants to visit Robert. There are at least a couple of breakdowns each year at Isis, and additional ones in the centers. Worst of all, Robert has had sex and continues to have sex with men who have mental illness problems—vulnerable men with bipolar disorders, schitzophrenia, or histories of depression. The FOF culture which encourages conscious spiritual ambition, reading of shocks, work against feminine dominance, can easily be used to justify objectification of psychotic states. Br_an T_mn_y was a good example of this.
The metal harps of the high gates
make a clangorous music
closing behind me. They
announce the “new life” of freedom
and only a battered valise
to lug down this alley of poplars.
I repeat the litany of the poem
that released me. Hollow tree
though I am, these things I cherish:
the hum of my blood, busily safe
in its hive of being; the delicate
oily kiss my fingertips give
each thing they touch; and desire,
a huge fish I drag with me
through the wilderness:
I love its glint among the dust and stones.
About a year ago some of us, while still in the FoF, were at an Adyashanti meeting when a lady stood up to ask a question and gradually became more and more hysterical until I personally began to feel intense fear and to worry that an ambulance would have to be called. She was undergoing psychological meltdown right before our eyes.
Adyashanti slowly and calmly talked her down, so that ten minutes later she was quiet, peaceful and grateful. It was a virtuoso performance.
I’m not advocating Adyashanti as “the be all and end all”. just contrasting his abilities as a “teacher” and human being with those of Robert Burton. If something like this started to happen at a Galleria meeting the person would be immediately hustled out. We were very impressed by the way Adyashanti handled this. Also anyone there could ask any question they liked and he was able to answer them all in an illuminating way – so open and creative compared with the sterility of FoF meetings.
Working with Dorothy it became obvious that the more she was kept inside her room, the more she lost contact with those around her and herself. Even just being able to move from room to room, helped her to focus.
The most healing I ever observed in her was during the time that I took her food shopping, ice cream eating and even to lunch in restaurants. She pulled herself together and behaved like a perfect english lady then held that state for about three days.
The speech therapy Agnes L. did with her also helped her immensely.
What I would be interested in exploring together is the particular psychosis that is being developed in the fellowship conditioned by the form.
I was much surprised reading about Philip L’s. activity with the crazy ones as a security manager because in recent times Philip is one of the stars at Isis, travelling to centers with his great angles and a smile from ear to ear. A smile like Abraham’s, Ellen P’s. , and Thomas’.
I have nothing against their feeling happy and would even acknowledge that they’ve managed to transform or give enough of a blind eye to the world around them to be living an altered state but it doesn’t stop surprising me that it should be so relevant in Philip L. and Abraham because as long fellowship members and in considerably significant roles, it is as if they had to prove to themselves and others that they have gained something that can justify all that they’ve done against other students because there was something to gain from following Robert and they themselves are proof of it.
But I wonder to what extent this is true about them at all times or do they turn into something quite different in private, or with their wives, children or intimate connections because it would not surprise me at all if they too have developed two distinct personalities, one that controls people for Robert’s status quo and another one who “awakens” and justifies the other’s abuse.
They both have a “beautiful” act, at least in public. Few students were as warm as Abraham with me, with the exception of the time I questioned Robert and Philip was giving brilliant angles before I left.
In Helen’s case I would say she had a particular talent for madness of her own (I should be able to recognize this things!) and the consistent discrepancies have slowly shut up the pain and put her in an ever smiling condition, a permanent buffering condition.
Paradoxically, Girard’s act in events is pretty well leveled. In spontaneous interchanges with students he does not keep eye contact, he has great difficulty acknowledging anyone, unless it is a young woman or old contact and never has time for any one so he’ll keep looking at his watch consistently to let you know that you’re taking too much of his time. He has not developed this “ecstatic” act…….yet, although he hints that he has awaken a part of himself while the lower self remains the same.
What I am trying to work on and understand is the different aspects of our lives that run so wildly against each other without balance, keeping in mind the individual, the family and the community as a map-structure to guide ourselves.
I personally think we are all terribly unbalanced, all have huge areas to work on and all need enormous help. I also think each one of us has something wonderful and unique to offer, including Robert. Not that I would stop his going to jail.
“Mad”, is the position of any one that does not fit the status quo of a particular community and there are plenty of those everywhere. From the individual’s position though, one’s own madness becomes extreme when one’s impulse is thwarted so extremely by the community that one belongs to, that one indeed believes and develops one’s madness. The depression, the lack of contact, take control, and one’s acts consistently confirm the madness.
A community can heal or worsen the level of madness of any individual.
Is this not the case of the Fellowship of Friends? I have no doubt Robert has a great deal of lunatic but the community, instead of controlling and channelling him, adapted to each one of his whims, bent and accepted the deal at its own cost and then each individual had to adapt his own particular madness to his.
I think it was a dual game and am far from believing it was conscious or intentional, it happened to all of them. Robert adapted to his follower’s and his followers to his, all the time singing to each other that they were remembering themselves.
Amongst the men, the macho stereotype became stronger, so strong that infrasex has become common ground and amongst the women, the second hand female role, became stronger, developing perfect unmarried executives and hard working housewives without a saying on what is going on.
The adults lost position as people to address with more experience because it is being given to the young and inexperienced who can handle the deal with a lot less concern backed up by Robert against no matter what adult and they all work indiscriminately to support the sex making machine that Robert’s madness demands.
The “beautiful” act in public is very interesting because we are all forced to have at least a fairly decent act in public, in community. This feminine dominance that pushes individuals to act normally at least in public is in itself a very significant force and it was used by Robert in the fellowship upside down and backwards to make students accept all his behavior although there was absolutely nothing lawful about it in terms of living in a community that students were paying for….. to not belong to.
There’s about as much madness in each student in the fellowship as any mental institution could hope for.
When I was on the road a person who heard “voices” invited me to live with him. His sister was in charge of his life. Paying the bills, washing his clothes and keeping doctor’s appointments.
I finally moved out but kept in touch. One winter I ran into him and asked where he was going. He told me to the drug store for medicine and that he had set his apartment on fire. He did.
I was worried about his 90 plus year old landlady who lived downstairs in the two story wooden framed building. We caught it before it spread. The oak floors were turned into charcoal. He had lit a gas heater that was partially stopped up. When it did light it scared him. So, he threw a throw rug on it and walked away.
Other than that he was fun to be around. I almost made it to his death bed but that’s another story.
About Christianity: Somebody said that Christianity would be something good if it were ever put into practice. Isnt that a ditto for the Gurdjieff/Ouspensky “system” of teaching esoteric Christianity? I believe Nicoll said Lao Tsu was the 4th Way. And, I believe Rodney Collin said the 4th Way was the most complete truth. Because everything could be found in it.
It is my understanding that when “fires” start in California forest Rangers start what’s called I believe “back” fires. To fight fire with fire? I think somebody has stared a fire, but who?
Some news… The blog has reached the first page when doing a Google search for “Fellowship of Friends.”
Although many have expressed concern about the wikipedia article being a source of propaganda for the Fellowship and Robert Burton, websites with negative information about the Fellowship continue to dominate all Google searches — whether it’s “Fellowship of Friends”, “Robert Burton”, or “Robert Earl Burton.”
From 1(6) 558 Life person (great post, by the way)
After months of periodically reading and contributing to the blog, what most amazes me is the enormity of the disconnect between what is observed and what some people choose to believe.
This reminded me of a passage by U. Eco in “Baudolino”:
“Master Niketas, the problem of my life is that I’ve always confused what I saw with what I wanted to see.”
“That happens to many people”
“Yes, but with me, whenever I said I saw this, or I found this letter that says thus or so (and maybe I’d written it myself), other people seem to have been waiting for that very thing. You know, Master Niketas, when you say something you have imagined, and others then say that’s exactly how it is, you end up believing it yourself…”
I tried to get into the mood of offering more DIRECT Rushkin, but since I suffer from a ‘mood disorder’, I cannot get in the ‘mood’. I offer from the manic – depressive Irishman, Spike Milligan who made his living out of high-performances “I know I’m f***ing mad. It’s just that they tried to make me ashamed of it”. Robert actually said to an aspirant who asked “Would I awaken this lifetime?” : “No you are not crazy enough” (RB). Apply your declarations to yourself, Burton, or is there just a blank across the VDU, or do you go ’snake-eyes’ with greed. Retrack to a former sending………………………………………Nigel.
“The adults lost position as people to address with more experience because it is being given to the young and inexperienced who can handle the deal with a lot less concern backed up by Robert against no matter what adult…”
Thank you for this perception, Elena. It is very true. I confess I’ve been there: young idiot, then adult, now simply ex-adult.
As an “adult” I used to rationalize the friction this caused me by remembering the parable about the last being first and the first being last. I tried to consider it work on my own vanity to accept the way very young, seemingly immature and frequently downright arrogant young people were being given so much power over our lives. It did not occur to me that it was all a setup.
Looking further back into the past, Robert gradually immasculated most of his wisest older students and effectively replaced them with “the keys”. Experience, unique personal understanding, what we called “being”, counts for very little today in the form and decision-making process of the FOF. Miles, Joel, Stella, Rosemary, Walter, Kristina…to name just a few, each had their shortcomings, magnified by the power bestowed on them as center director, octave leader, etc., but they also had a real voice, and served to balance and neutralize RB’s excesses if only by offering a counterpoint. Linda, Girard and others abdicated this important role, and have become enablers, permitters through silence. Little by little Robert has marginalized anyone who might potentially challenge him, distract his minions from devotion to his personality cult, or threaten his infrasex cabal.
Power in the FOF today mostly resides with the “dogs”: wagging their tails, baring their teeth (is it a smile or a snarl), licking YOUR plate in the Galleria kitchen as they bark together about how instinctive you were not to leave more, sniffing around the backside and humping whenever the opportunity arises. There are many breeds but a dog is a dog, whether Doberman or Poodle or King Charles Cavalier. Dogs run in packs, and they always know who the Big Dog is. The lead humper. The one who doesn’t even bother to growl anymore because no one else dares to tangle with him.
Of course, RB is also happy to use fools, but he does not expect as much from them. Fools are capable of learning from their folly and tend to run away after a while. Dogs are bred to follow. They work their way up through the pack, they sniff the ground a lot, they ponder over excrement, they guard their turf.
Funny that the apex of FOF evolution was after all simply to be a fool.
Not to overlook the mundane behind many behaviours.
Philip .L. only became ‘very active,travelling to centres and smiling’ after he seperated from his wife and was fancy free once more. I’ve seen him spluttering out work angles ten to the dozen onto a couple of young, attractive, former communist country refugees who hang around Isis.
Belated reply to N-ck Sp-ld-ngs offer to ‘Chill out with Simple truth and Fat boy over a beer at apollo’doro’
Thanks for the invite but I’ll decline. I’ll be watching though…..
I just read the Wikipedia article on FOF. It is so obvious that writers are trying very hard to make FOF look like religion. I guess now it is more useful for FOF to pose as a religion to keep it’s 501(c)(3) California non-profit church organization status.
Pathetic liars!!! It has NEVER EVER BEEN A RELIGION!
What happened to the whole “4th way school” that we all joined? Back then it was sold to us as a Conscious School quite opposite to a religion. What happened to the idea of not believing anything but verifying all for oneself?
Now it’s all of a sudden a church, a religion with belief system.
Please take a look for yourself. It’s simply disgusting.
“The Fellowship of Friends is a non-profit religious organization”
“…the aim of making its religious teachings and practices available in all parts of the world…”
“The Fellowship of Friends believes that God has many names”
“..the core of the Fellowship of Friends’ religious practice”
“It is the belief of the Fellowship of Friends…”
“The “Higher Self” is believed to be the real Self.” Etc, etc.
The word ‘believe’ is used prolifically through the whole article as of someone desperately tries to drive his point home: We are a religion! We are a church! We believe!
The article is packed with lies and distortions.
I am simply wondering: why so much lies and cover up is needed for something supposedly so true and great? What is there to hide?
Dear current members how do you feel about all this wiggling, changing and twisting facts by a conscious school and it’s leader? How do you justify to yourself the lying that’s constantly going on and this changing colors like a chameleon?
Of course the Fellowship and its devotees never had any compunction about lying and deceit, especially if it was to mere ‘life people’. The basic principle seemed to be something like “Our aim requires so and so, and we will do whatever it takes to get it. If ‘life people’ are harmed or deceived in the process, well, that’s just too bad, but it doesn’t matter because, after all, they’re just life people, etc.”
I’m sure this same principle is used to justify the deception of the various government authorities who might try to investigate the Fellowship’s non-profit status, etc.
I even know of instances in which students stole from or took advantage of fellow students, probably because they were so financially desperate due to the onerous teaching payments.
I also remember a lot of deception was used by the telemarketing salesmen who were hawking Renaissance wine (usually to gullible old people).
During the run up to 1998 and ‘the Fall of California’, all kinds of dishonest scheming and maneuvering was going on in an attempt to cash in on the big disaster. All kinds of expensive items were borrowed or bought on credit right before it was supposed to happen, with the expectation that when it did, all that stuff would belong to the Fellowship. After all, those poor ‘life’ bastards would be out there under ocean somewhere, right? Weren’t we just so fucking smug about it too? Of course, it all back fired when the prediction didn’t come true and all of it had to be returned.
On that same subject, I remember some students getting all excited about how they would need to arm themselves against the desperate local population who would not be prepared for the disaster. You know, “We might have to kill some of those life scumbags if they come around here trying to interfere with us building our Ark!”
Robert seemed to always like to whip up that “Us against Life” hysteria. And a lot of the students really ate it up.
“But I wonder to what extent this is true about them at all times or do they turn into something quite different in private, or with their wives, children or intimate connections because it would not surprise me at all if they too have developed two distinct personalities, one that controls people for Robert’s status quo and another one who “awakens” and justifies the other’s abuse.
They both have a “beautiful” act, at least in public. Few students were as warm as Abraham with me, with the exception of the time I questioned Robert and Philip was giving brilliant angles before I left.”
____________________________
Actually, they’ve developed three distinct personalities;
1) Confused, very touchy, irritable around the idea of total self responsibility without external target to blame or imitate; don’t like the idea of transforming the inner child from ‘pet’ to ‘person’.
2) Sure, ready to talk oneself out and into new possibilities; career persona, the ‘I am sure I am confused’ one within, the ‘I can’t remember myself enough’ voice who does not like to talk about loosing True Personality as a recipe book and sunglasses.
3) Present, (true personality thought form-body-I); the worker bee, the expectation, the ‘I am going to get this by doing that’ struggler-I, the ‘I am because of that having been my effort’, ‘I did that therefore I am today for yesterday was.’ Or ‘I need to go there’ to know I exist by hearing my footsteps proceeding oneanother. The, ‘I am a student therefore I am destined to graduate’ (by default).
___________
The insanity arrives, (at least the sort I experience) when there is no form to hold one’s presence, no reference, no target, no conflict-partner or ‘Us & Them’ ritualistic dances;
yet this is intentional insanity, the sort that we can ‘do’ with, it’s not the sort that must be loved and handled with great care, this too is within us, like a seed, to me it’s our outer fringes, the edges of our being, unfinished, ever reaching due to our love of curiosity and becoming.
So much talk for the Fellowship of Friends; beautiful nests and no time to sit on the eggs.
Yes, it’s the ‘truth’, “two distinct personalities” so far as the thought forms ’students’ have identified their presence ‘into’ and ‘out of’…
The beauty is that we are being born, that the insanity is our normal material to work with, it is the mittens our love wears as we stand to un-thaw oceans of frozen possibilities and applications of our conscious individuality; even if it’s simply to lay down and stare into a dandelion’s yet to be un-spun orb of seeds… (and I don’t mean the cat and mouse staring BTW)…
Frank Zappa he is the famous somebody I could’nt remember who told his 14 year daughter (moon?) that if anybody came toward her carrying a bible to turn and run like hell.
Now if somebody would name the rock band who had the line, “show me what love is”.
To the little girls at I’s I’s: If somebody comes toward you at “church” carrying a bible and saying, “let me show you what love is”. Start screaming!!.
Baby take off your coat
Real slow
Take off your shoes
I’ll take off your shoes
Baby take off your dress
Yes, yes, yes
You can leave your hat on
You can leave your hat on
You can leave your hat on
Go over there, turn on the light
Hey, all the lights
Come over here, stand on that chair
Yeah, that’s right
Raise your arms up in the air
Now shake ‘em
You give me reason to live
You give me reason to live
You give me reason to live
You give me reason to live
Sweet darling, (you can leave your hat on)
You can leave your hat on
Baby, (you can leave your hat on)
You can leave your hat on
(You can leave your hat on)
(You can leave your hat on)
Suspicious minds are talkin’
They’re tryin’ to tear us apart
They don’t believe in this love of mine
They don’t know what love is
They don’t know what love is
They don’t know what love is
They don’t know what love is
Yeah, I know what love is
There ain’t no way
(You can leave your hat on)
You can leave your hat on
(You can leave your hat on)
Give me the reason to live
(You can leave your hat on)
You can leave your hat on
Mental illness. There are such fine lines drawn. Some can cope with depression without medication, while some seem to need it.
Schizophrenia is, of course, a very serious mental illness.
Still, it’s tough to measure “mental illness” or insanity. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), attempts to do so. (It’s available online. See the section on pathological narcissistic mental disorder.)
I would not accuse any of extreme mental illness for joining the fellowship, but I think the lines are very fine.
I definitely consider myself to have been somewhat “mentally ill” for having chosen to join the fellowship.
The placid smiles are so unnerving and manipulative, false and look “medicated”. I saw that face and probably looked that way. (Admittedly, I tend to be a big laugher and had a hard time maintaining my compliant fellowship poker face.)
The delusion of grandeur involved in truly believing that I was “chosen” above billions is awesome and indicates that I was “mentally ill” during that time.
Life Person (6-558) said:
“After months of periodically reading and contributing to the blog, what amazes me is the enormity of the disconnect between what is observed and what some people choose to
believe.”
Isn’t that a form of madness?
As I said before, I clearly assign a certain lunacy to my own participation and willingness to join a cult.
I clearly remember having a clear disconnect between my intuitive feelings about what I observed in the Fellowship and my beliefs. That was constant and was encouraged.
Most obviously, that was a clear feeling when I was informed of Robert’s sex stuff and was basically told that I was a moralistic prude if I though it was wrong because he was way above me.
That was only the most obvious layer. There were deep levels at which I just didn’t believe my perceptions as an intelligent, sensitive human being and, in lieu, chose to, insanely, believe in a big time fraud.
In other words, I disconnected from my deepest intelligence and, in essence, my true self, which is not only the antithesis of achieving presence, it is also extremely unhealthy. I think it qualifies as mental illness.
Perhaps the most obvious manifestation of insanity is turning away from family. I am extremely close to my mother and with good reason. She is a very wise human being who has nurtured me forever. The memory of hiding that life from her is ridiculous and, from this vantage point, I was out of my mind.
Dear LL (pronouned in Wales with a th-and-l together uttered – almost as difficult as learning Polish – the other scramble-code language used during WWII to confuse enemy tactics),
I empathise with your writing above. Essence (the reality of your being) feels really strong from you. Gurdjieff remarked that ‘all work in the Great Work – no form will hold – begins with Essence – sound a do- and work up to I AM-and-can-Do – “I can always speak to someone who can do something well” (GIG). My mother taught me all the noble virtues which I now carry as the Olympic Torch of my personal work (of course, I rebelled – the School of FOF was the big one – “Don’t be sidetracked” she said when I told her I had come across it. Trouble is I had to be flushed through the camp of the enemy OPPOSER – “I opened doors, they walked straight through them; called me their friend, I hardly knew them” – CHESS (Rice, Ulvaeus, Andersson).
Awakening comes in waves “You are many times dying and being born” Ramirez/Connery in ‘Highlander’ until you reach Nirvana (didn’t they do Lithium – the staple drug that combined with Clopixyl – a muscle relaxant – caused my alimentary (Watson) system so many problems – “Now the drugs don’t work, they just make you worse”). My personal permanent Awakened State of Eternal Vigilance was on
25 – 07 – 2007
If you want proof of this do not argue or ‘quibble’ by this site but meet me in person – see how I operate (“You need a system to awake – it need not be this system – but you need a system” – Ouspensky)……..
“Come close, that no more blinded by man’s fate,
I find under the boughs of Love and Hate,
In all poor foolish things that last a day,
Eternal beauty wandering on her way”
I am easy to be found by True Seekers (the Irish have ‘cracked’/craiched the Highway Code – I can teach you by pavement tactics)
Trust me, I know what I’m doing….Nigey Beefyburger.
Thank you for an astonishingly good piece of writing. You have given us a gift. Your writing has a light, refreshing and authentic tone that is quite attractive. You have described your experiences in a distinct voice that resonates with hard-won perspective and honesty. It is certainly in my opinion one of the very best pieces on the entire blog.
I have had experiences similar to the one you had with TH. Years ago, when teaching a course called “Introduction to Gurdjieff’s Fourth Way” at the New York Open Center, and trying to bring practical exercises that would illustrate the topics, as well as putting a lot of emotional energy into my presentation (it was a 7 week course, as I recall), a young woman “broke” with our consensus reality into a different state. Of course, even as a “big mucky-muck” in the FoF, I had no idea what was going on, no idea of how to help the poor woman, no way to answer the questions from her anxious family, and not enough sense to quit doing what I was so proud to be doing.
There are numerous stories of people “waking up” quite without any cause at all, just out of the blue. Even for the people who manage to survive, there’s usually a period of about 3 years during which they are learning to integrate the higher consciousness with their ordinary, functional awareness.
Leaving the FoF is also a major undertaking for some people, and the layers of influence go deep, sometimes taking years (in my case) to reveal themselves, to be seen for the relics they are. The process is ongoing, but the opportunity to heal through the interactions on the blog seems to really root out a lot of the old stuff, or to stir it up so it’s visible and can be understood in a new way, from a more benign, forgiving and wiser perspective. But it does take time.
Thanks again for the time and energy you put into your story. I agree that it should be circulated as widely as possible (along with Life Person’s!) to current inmates.
A Former Student [#25 & 26] and [#34]
Rhino Neal #[32]
Thanks for the input. Believe it or not, we are on the same track. I do understand the difference between the Fourth Way (as we have received it under RB’s tutelage) and Advaita. Advaita is like turning one’s understanding around 180 degrees (from being Bass Ackwards), with a huge and deep purge of formatory mind. It is exhilarating. It is the Truth. Strangely enough, after reading Nisargadatta, it is possible to read Rumi, Walt Whitman, Meher Baba, etc.. and finally realize that they are all saying the same thing, speaking of experiences/understandings from an awakened (Universal) Self. It seems as though that is what G and O meant too, but our interpretation has simply been less than perfect.
My take on it – and suggestion – is to gently offer that kind of understanding and perspective to current students. The blog raises most current student’s radar, but Rumi, Whitman, Meher Baba with a little seasoning from N. do not. From there, it doesn’t take much for anyone who is exhilarated by such revelatory understanding to realize that RB is not really speaking from that place. He covers himself with quotes, but it is hard to find him speaking from his own understanding. And when he does, the understanding he offers to us is so deeply entrenched in a fundamentalist duality, that only a crystallized devotee can miss seeing the shining, loving, higher truth beginning to emerge.
Most posters on this blog are interested in getting the truth out there about Robert Burton. Please don’t misunderstand me, I support this effort wholeheartedly, I’m just working underground from the other side of the fence. There is the triad of Destruction/Elimination and that of Healing – most of what the posts here are about. But there is also Regeneration. What our School is supposed to be engendering? So, from my experience and perspective, the “inner circle” students I know won’t budge because they have their verifications of Higher Centers. How to free up someone like that? Deepen their understanding.
***********************************************
Yesterday’s meeting:
A small to mid sized center, away from Isis. Some students have read some of Nisargadatta, some not. One director to whom we had introduced N. to a few weeks previously, asked my friend to lead a “free” meeting. My friend selected about 7 – 8 quotes just to get us started, from Rumi,Whitman, Meher Baba and Nisargadatta. The quotes centered around the experience/understanding of a non-dual Self. Quotes were read, but conversation, questions were encouraged. My friend who had been studying these ideas for almost one year, was able to offer deep understanding. It was a very emotional meeting. By the end, many of us had tears in our eyes.
After the meeting we were able to share the books we have from Nisargadatta, not only “I Am That”, but the three books edited by Jeanne Dunn of his dialogues at the end of his life, as he continued teaching seemingly unabated despite throat cancer. Priceless. Much later in the afternoon, we had a more intimate conversation with one director. We were able to point out to her in clear, simple and non-confrontational terms the difference between what real awakening could be and who or what Robert Burton is. The difference was pretty obvious.
I invite other students all over the world to try similar efforts? One way or another the bubble will burst?
Love,
Bass
Bruce #64 Nope! I must change radio stations. It’s one of my favorite “inspirational songs”. Forgive me. I dont own a TV and I just discovered CD’s about a year ago. Never owned a record player, never bought a record, that I can remember. Oh, I did record on tapes “New Age or World Beat” music until they quit playing them on the local PBS radio station. They started gathering dust and out the many-many went. This computer can’t do You-Tube the sound is jerky and so is the video. Some of the other computer error is me—-self taught.
OOPS– I took “Music Appreciation” and had to buy an album.
Laughing Love #65: “Turning away from family” was like a bullet wizzing past my head.
Mr. GoldFinger: Now I want a $1,000 cash, a 1944 Lincoln convertible, a black thoroughbred race horse and a fine Panama hat.
Not only are there “Robert’s boys” but also “Robert’s girls”. This is a term used by the FOF HR department for wives and girlfriends of Robert’s boys. A number of these wives and girlfriends are on salary specifically to look after their children so that their husbands and partners do not have to be involved in childminding, and thus are available for Robert at the drop of a hat. Robert tells these women that looking after their children is their third line of work.
Dear Former Student,
I am glad you wrote in #34 what offends you about non-dualists.
Now I can see that we are arguing about the same thing – which is so common! Sometimes me and my boyfriend find ourselves in the middle of an argument, and then after a while one of us says: Wait. What’s you point? And suddenly we see that the point is exactly the same, but somehow we got into argument about it. Funny, right?
So, no reason to be offended. There is no conflict, really.
The idea is exactly NOT to look outside and not to follow anyone and only look within oneself. So we do agree here!
It all can be found only internally, because it is there, un-noticed and overlooked. It’s all about “Know Thyself”. (Not “Create thyself” or “Work on thyself” or “Buy thyself in this school” – simply “Know thyself”.) It is exactly the point that absolutely nothing is lacking! It needs to be known, recognized, by looking within oneself.
Nothing is lacking. It’s more that we’ve got some “extra” so to speak – our ego, or false personality – a mind structure that screws things up and distorts the beautiful natural picture. Non-dualism points straight right to the core of your being, and doesn’t promote more “efforts” and “working on ego”, since it’s exactly the ego that would be doing all the working under new fancy names: 4th way student, Steward, King of hearts, Higher Self, etc…
So, in a way Advaita is really good, good news! It cuts right through the mind’s crap and games and brings you to yourself.
I would add that it seem to be very helpful to many in and out FOF. People are deeply resonating with this simple message, especially after 20+ years of chasing their own tail, and many lives has been already changed profoundly because of that simple understanding.
A noteworthy approach to Acceptance! Yes, we tend to resist the need for change, and this need may be just the thing we should accept a lot earlier. If you can treat this topic in more detail, please do so.
Perhaps we resist the need to change (in casu, the need to leave a group) because of the insistance in the Work, esp. in O’s books, of the immense value and rarity of school, of how easy we can loose it, of how we need the three lines, etc. (And this has of course been thickened with a triple layer of propaganda in the fof related to ‘only conscious school on earth’, who loses it is moon-food, and so on.) Not surprising that when we get an ‘I’ to leave the organization, we distrust it.
Is there a way to tell when to trust this ‘I’ and when not to? (Considering we might also get involved with other groups in the future…) I think we can find an answer in O’s ‘In search of the miraculous’. He gives there two examples of leaving the school: one for the wrong reasons, and one for the right reasons. In chapter 13 there is the story of two people who left their group for the wrong reasons – out of Inner Considering:
“Only two people dropped off who, exactly as though through some kind of magic as it seemed to us, suddenly ceased to understand anything and saw in everything that G. said misunderstanding on his part, and, on the part of the rest, a lack of, sympathy and feeling.
This attitude, at first mistrustful and suspicious and then openly hostile to almost all of us, coming from nobody knew where and full of strange and quite unexpected accusations, astonished us very much.
‘We made everything a secret’; we failed to tell them what G. had spoken of in their absence. We told tales about them to G., trying to make him distrust them. We recounted to him all talks with them, leading him constantly into error by distorting all the facts and striving to present everything in a false light. We had given G. wrong impressions about them, making him see everything far from as it was.
At the same time G. himself had “completely changed,” had become altogether different from what he used to be before, had become harsh, requiring, had lost all feeling and all interest for individual people, had ceased to demand the truth from people; that he preferred to have round him people such as were afraid to tell him the truth, who were hypocrites, who threw flowers at one another and at the same time spied on the others.
We were amazed at all these and similar talks. They brought with them immediately a kind of entirely new atmosphere which up to this time we had not had. And it was particularly strange because precisely at this time most of us were in a very emotional state and were particularly well disposed towards these two protesting members of our group. …”
In chapter 18 O. exposes the reasons for which he himself decided to part from G. These reasons had to do with the principles of Work (the principles explained in the beginning were no longer respected), with the change of the direction of the organization (from school to church), and with the change of specialty (from psychology, which suited O’s man nr. 3 make-up, to religion). By the way, O. also took a long time to accept his need for change – amicus G. sed magis amica veritas.
“But my personal position in G.’s work began to change. For a whole year something had been accumulating and I gradually began to see that there were many things I could not understand and that I had to go.
This may appear strange and unexpected after all I have written so far, but it had accumulated gradually. I wrote that I had for some time begun to separate G. and the ideas. I had no doubts about the ideas. On the contrary, the more I thought of them, the deeper I entered into them, the more I began to value them and realize their significance. But I began very strongly to doubt that it was possible for me, or even for the majority of our company, to continue to work under G.’s leadership.
[...] In regard to my relations with G. I saw clearly at that time that I had been mistaken about many things that I had ascribed to G. and that by staying with him now I should not be going in the same direction I went at the beginning. And I thought that all the members of our small group, with very few exceptions, were in the same or in a similar situation.
This was a very strange “observation” but it was absolutely a right one. I had nothing to say against G.’s methods except that they did not suit me. A very clear example came to my mind then. I had never had a negative attitude towards the “way of the monk,” to religious, mystical ways. At the same time I could never have thought for one moment that such a way was possible for me or suitable. And so, if after three years of work I perceived that G. was leading us in fact towards the way of religion, of the monastery, and required the observance of all religious forms and ceremonies, there would be of course a motive for disagreeing with this and for going away, even though at the risk of losing direct leadership. And certainly this would not, at the same time, mean that I considered the religious way a wrong way in general. It may even be a more correct way than my way but it is not my way.
The decision to leave G.’s work and leave him exacted from me a great inner struggle. I had built very much upon it and it was difficult for me now to reconstruct everything from the beginning. But there was nothing else to do. Of course, all that I had learned during those three years I retained. But a whole year passed by while I was going into all this and until I found it possible to continue to work in the same direction as G. but independently.”
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Re: Arthur, 16/448
:) :)
:)
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Re: WhaleRider, 16/505
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I have read it several times, and still busy digesting it… The experiences I had in mind when I asked the question are rather different from what you describe. Nevertheless, all that you said in connection to aim (and at 17/33 in relation to the 3 lines of work) made complete sense to me.
——————
Re: page 17, non-dualism
“You must remember that the Work teaches that Man was once in touch with Higher Centres but went to sleep. He once knew what to do directly but now, in this state of sleep, he can only get to where he was by indirect methods. All that is left now is change of mind. Change of mind starts the whole possible recovery. … The Work can teach a man to think in a new way.” (Nicoll, pp. 822, 962, 1014)
“We have moments in which things go right and moments in which things go wrong. The Pendulum of our psychology, of our emotions, of our general feelings, swings to and fro. But when the Pendulum swings back this should be surely a phase in which things are put in order, in which one consults oneself, in which one gets things arranged rightly and made ready before one goes forward again. You cannot expect always to be just the same. Yet how many people are disappointed when, having felt something, they find that for the time being they no longer feel it. Then of course they quarrel, feel bored and so on. In other words, the negative swing of the Pendulum for most people is simply a blank. But it should not be a blank. It should be a phase inhabited by consciousness and by a sense of the Work in which one collects oneself together again and reflects, and does not necessarily think that everything is over, at an end.” (Nicoll, p. 731)
Res Ipsa Loquitor
Thanks, uno!
You are indeed food, spicy, tasty and elaborate, and also true like bread and wine.
Respect!
Janna 74
Well said. Chasing one’s own tail is exactly what one is condemned to do in pseudo-schools like the FoF.
I have a story in relation to the recent discussion of schizophrenia and altered states of consciousness. My Holotropic Breathwork facilitator is a middle-aged lady who in her thirties experienced a sudden and full-blown kundalini awakening (evoked by shamanic practices).
I spare you the details, but basically she had been in a state that closely resembled a psychedelic trip for three months straight. After the energy subsided, she spend the next several years simply working on understanding what had happened and on rebuilding a functional relationship with herself and the world. She sold all her furniture and moved to a secluded house in the mountains, she went to Jungian therapy, she visited the famous American healer Barbara Brennan, she met Stanislav Grof who was able to frame her experience in a way that finally allowed her to make sense of it.
I was fascinated by the power and truthfulness of her story and have since read quite a bit on the subject of kundalini energy and awakening. The internet has a lot of information, and probably the most valuable is first-hand accounts. I discovered that kundalini awakening happens in quite a few people, of all walks of life. I have had a little taste of it myself, not nearly as powerful or extended as the one referred above, but enough to make approach this energy with a devotion mixed with fear.
One recurring question in my mind was this: how could I have been in a so-called spiritual school for ten years and never even heard of such states? We talked about conscious beings, but I had no idea that one could go through this, and that these were the symptoms, and these were the possible side-effects and so on.
I was amazed at my own ignorance about the sometimes brutal nature of awakening. The FoF has no practical teaching on this subject, and no practical advise is needed because hardly anything is happening. And when something does happen (was that your story, Janna?) it is definitely not appreciated. And it became clear to me that all the signs we took to be “The Teacher’s Consciousness” were simply a well-rehearsed act.
In fact Robert could have never lived through a real awakening and not desired to share it. It’s just too cool! He would have told us about the flashes of heat, the dissolving blockages, the tingling sensations…
Awakening is as much of the body as of the spirit, and Robert would have definitely noticed if something went on in that area. No, the poor boy could not even imagine a power higher than the one that turned his head towards signs when required and gently whispered in his ear how great he was. What he sold us is imaginary awakening of the head, while the body goes wild unnoticed in the unlit caves of the king of clubs.
Sick!
Anyway, here we are, maybe finally making sense too.
Love,
For me, when I read about O leaving G I try to remember the other 7 letters in between (H,I,J,K,L,M,N) or ‘High-Jekyll-men’ (as we all are dealing with from within)…
Ouspensky, (I believe) had so many ‘right reasons’ to love Gurdjieff and G he, regardless of his ‘personality’: G gave him something that he could use without G’s reflection accompanying it in the mirror; O did the same for Rodney Collins…
Maybe I am a bit of a romantic in regards to those two, yet, somehow, G’s beginning with O, for me, is the most important; i.e., that he loved Ouspensky and did not compromise his (O’s) deeper essence levels (sexual humiliation for instance) to self aggrandize himself for being able to do so…
Robert Burton is possessed by a ruthlessly subjective ’spirit’ (we all babysit them from time to time); it walks in and out of him unchecked, unabated, insatiable…
There is no limit Robert Burton will not go to in order to convince himself that he is conscious and doing all this by the will of the gods… He has confused the dimension of magnetic bodies attached to the earth’s magnetic field with that of the conscious realm and it (in my opinion) has confused him too…
Yes, O left G, yet, I believe when they parted they both understood that it was absolutely necessary and in their hearts supported it, the rift… Yes, there was drama and back-biting, yet, I sense their conscience stayed in tact concerning it’s ‘right action’…
I think Rodney Collin said that the split between Gurdjieff and Ouspensky was right action and that they became two magnetic poles with Me dancing on the wires.
It’s true the quoted passages from In Search illustrate O.’s perspective that there exist “right” and “wrong” reasons for “leaving a school,” and that there are many who might benefit from considering whether a “right” reason exists for themselves at this time.
While starting your post by suggesting we have been unduly influenced by propaganda, however, you turn to one of the sources of the propaganda for assistance, and this, I submit, may not be helpful. I have valued In Search for decades, and it takes nothign away from what it offers to point out that representatives of the FoF power structure have used books such as In Search to justify whatever they want to justify, and members, past and present, have facilitated this by looking to such texts in very much the same way an evangelical might read into some passage in the Bible, or an adherent of any religion would find in one of the accepted revealed texts, whatever he wants to find.
The description of the two departing members of G.’s group was merely one person’s (and not the departing members’) recounting, in one book published many, many years ago, of some aspects of the circumstances surrounding the departure of two people from groups that presumably involved hundreds of people over a period of decades. There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of stories that could be told from hundreds of perspectives about why various people stopped working with G. or, for that matter, O. Similarly, we may want to take O.’s word for his reasons for leaving, and assume that O. had a “good” reason to leave, because he was O., but we might not want to go down the road of thinking in that way.
If people want to deal with what to do about finding themselves in a questionable situation, they might want to stop thinking about their situation in the manner suggested by the FoF or the texts on which it supposedly was based, and start listening to themselves. After all, if we start thinking that “if O. left, so can I,” we become susceptible to the obvious next stay-in-the-Fellowship-until-you-die thought: I am not O, and I should not model my behavior on what someone of his exhalted level may have done. RB is one step ahead in having made himself the arbiter not only of who is, and is not, “conscious” (another makey-uppy term), but also of who has any possibility of becoming “conscious” in this lifetime. So all the angles–and exits–are covered if one is unable to trust oneself, even if it appears to contradict every “work book.”
We invest a few sentences in a “work book” with an extraordinary, and unwarranted, degree of significance because we want so badly to have guidance from some presumed authority, and do not trust our own judgment. The whole concept of “losing a school” is based on a few passages from O.’s writings that have been repeated breathlessly down through the years, by Collin (an apparently well-intentioned man who also had a penchant for seeing everything through the lens of a few concepts he learned from O., and who eventually preferred the antithesis of critical thinking, Roman Catholicism); and Burton, as though they express an unassailable truth that there exist such things as “conscious schools” that one may “lose” and, as a result, suffer disastrous consequences.
Although past and present FoF members may like to fancy themselves “intellectuals,” there is nothing intellectual (in the positive sense of the term) about this approach; it’s no different from any faith-based fundamentalism. The Catholic Church has taught for many centuries that it is the One True Church; I hear the current pope has placed more emphasis on this than has been fashionable for some time. This is no different from any religion; a learned Jew or Muslim can easily find textual support for anything, and people have killed each other by the thousands in the firm belief that their popes and their revealed texts are more trustworthy than anyone else’s.
How is this different from believing the concept of a “conscious school” (let alone the “only conscious school”) that one may “lose” and therefore suffer the pains of hell or whatnot?
There is one difference: We belong(ed) to the FoF, so we want to believe that it is different, because we want to believe we are different. One reason the FoF has persisted for so long is the inexhaustable desire to believe RB’s statements that members are special because, and only so long as, they are members.
Don’t ramble. Why are there 2 (two) Jokers in a complete pack. Because Shiva sends dialogue to Arjuna (male to male indicator and receptor overcoming male-male confrontation) in the mind.
O.K I have solved that twiddly-dee oh so popular ‘third states intermediary’ cr*p. Isn’t it nice to be in the moment altogether as a higher family. No more dreams to steal the (Blue) Thunder (good movie, recommended) of my objective states. You try working with the major-incovenience of manic-depression “Not that you could withstand the voice of GOD, far from it”
Anyway as I was saying what’s white and falls from the sky?
Answer – “The coming of the Lord” That will get me excommunicated from all formalist religions – I am not a number – I am a free man – I stand as 8, revolutionise as a 9 (Beatles Double White Album, I pay the debt I never promised, IO so off to work I go) 11, that is question now – answer it for your self in your own play, test my teaching; stay Eternally Vigilante (the awakened ONE in YOU all)
Burton and all other nothingnesses (the devil is another great fallen angel, the Chamois that was lost and is now found – oh you can’t elope with an antelope – he is now the mighty Welsh flag assistant – all games-plays require an opposition and if if you want an answer to that stupid Chinese paradoxical tripe about what is the sound of one hand clapping I get practical with the Answer – actually it is the sound of your back cracking as you twist your spine out of place -my personal Osteopath is Pauline (feminine of little one – Paul of the letters was the most misogynistic bastard one could imagine – I am a manly man and I like womenly Women – Only the Celtic traditon holds the aspiration of Woman Warrior Chieftain witness Boadiccea (Fabrizio my Awakened bus driver who has the stage-numbers memorised said I was correct with spelling). Katherine Jenkins is “our soul charge” see the engaement episode of Henry V. “The voice of a Goddess with a real down to earth attitude” Earth Bound deity – AVATARESS.
Be practical – expect a miracle! (Krishnamurti)
And as a parting shot – dirty Nigey-Squint Eastward”
Why can’t a Jew be a Morris Dancer.
Answerer – ” It takes a total prick to be a Morris Dancer”
I’ve shut down the system of phone communcation and gone AWOL/REMOTE (hue and cry – good album – recommended) from my ‘root of all evil’ life-family so that they can have a little chat with the psycho-twats about Making Plans for Nigel (XTC/ecstasy) – I kid ye not it is a music track. If you are all senses to receive stand by for
LINGUA FRANCA SUBSTANTIA. God have I got BALLS – I’m so humble I could s**t! Eliminate the clutter from your lives!
“Put your House In Order, that the King of Heaven my Enter Therein”
Right. Same thing is annoying about Jews.
And homosexuals, and black, and Republicans, and Democrats, and Christians, and Buddhists, and Muslims, and car mechanics, lawyers, nurses, old people and teenagers, Chinese, Germans, Russians, vegetarians, meat eaters, rich and poor, teachers, followers, idiots, Nobel laureates, critics, movie stars, natzis, communists, nobody-in-particulars and all the rest in between.
They ALL think they are Fucking Special !
I bet you do as well
You can bet that I do
As long as we put someone in a group of some sort, WE, and only WE, make them special.
Personally, I do not feel ’special’ just because I am in FOF.
I don’t care for being special. I care for the truth.
What you present is just a reason to be irritated with someone else, by thinking that they should not be any more special then ME.
And please, don’t put me in the box with the label.
You don’t know me, and you probably do not know most of the people in FOF. But once you put them in a “FOF’ box, you can blame them all for all possible sins ever committed on this Earth.
Hi Laura.
I think one of the great difficulties that we are facing is the fact that there are two sides to every coin. We can see everything that is questionable about Robert and call it into account but we cannot take away his own inner work or will. It is true about Girard and probably many of the other strong students.
It is why it was so difficult for so many of us to leave and for the many inside. From one angle, only in as much as students can extend their own conscience enough to embrace the totality of humanity, the totality of integrity, can one hold the horror of Robert’s acts in perspective.
When all that they can encompass is Robert himself with the fellowship as his creation, it is easy to become fascinated with the accomplishments. Insignificant as they are when looked at from the outside.
I have no doubt that Robert has had considerable high states as I have no doubt that I have had them. What I think is worth realizing is that although a large number of people may today have access to high states it does not necessarily mean that they are all that is required to become a leader of men, rather that we are all being able to access other states and it is how we bring the understanding of them down to the actual practice of our lives that matters.
The “gift” of “higher states” will not in any way replace the need to eat, move, feel or think, it will simply colour our acts in the way we can paint them with our will.
The fact or possibility that higher realms are pushing into this realm, for better or worse, as we have well verified with Robert, or even in the fact that no matter how much of those I’ve tasted, I can very well come down into deep and dangerous depressions if I don’t have enough will to watch out. To me, it is because, no matter how much they are willing to help us, they will never be able to do for us what we need to do for ourselves, just like any parent with a child.
They might come down and tell us, “Hey, you’re all one, look after yourselves”, but we continue to treat each other as if we were perfect strangers!
Earth to Nigel…earth to Nigel.. come in? If you can hear me – throw about a dozen sandbags into that balloon basket and let out some more hot air… can you hear me?
Oh my god, I think he’s gone!
No way, really?
Yeah, maybe. You got any extra sandbags we could take up to him- if he heard us?
“[W]e cannot take away his own inner work or will.”
Sure we can.
First, since it’s his “inner” work, perhaps you might set aside the urge to imagine you have verified it.
Second, consider the implications of attributing “inner work” and “will” to someone incapable of acting like a decent person–not a “conscious being,” not an “angel,” just a decent human being, who with some consistency treats others as he would like to be treated, for no reason other than it’s the way mature people act.
If meatloaf could only fly, mom and pop’s diners would have to have reverse magnetic foundations, trading places from time to time with Homeland Security;
In a conscious world, old folks homes would be burnt to the ground (exit old folks first); then extra pre-schools and day care centers built thereon; after of course Shaman’s re-blessed the putrid-negative-spirit-laden-saddened soil…
These ‘old folks’ would be (not hard pressed) to share their pent up love and wisdom, and nerves of steel & will with these ‘on the opposite end’ brother and sisters, while the adults learned from both and kept (for the most part) their mouths shut.
Nigel ~ I think you might be a long lost relative of mine; yet, aren’t we all?
Elena, you’re nearly right about that help thing, yet, certainly on this blog, although we’re “perfect strangers”, we’re not necessarily treating each other as such; not much to loose when what is lost is you (that’s my take on it)… Rumi longed to go home, yet, perhaps he found later that inside that longing ‘was’ home.
Didn’t know we had hired a reporter?!
Did you get an increase in salary?
Or is it a part of your 3d line?
But seriously, do you not understand what the word church means?
From Wiki: “A church is an association of people who share a particular belief system.”
This the same issue that Sheik mentioned in 1(6) post 576 .
“…I personally don’t think that the government is very well informed in these issues. Their decisions on what should be legal and what not do not always make much sense. The only way that you can verify this is if you experiment a little bit yourself.”
And by the way, I am an expert on churches.
The one I (Jesus) started, is a great example.
It did some good, and some evil and a lot in between.
But at least it is now recognized by the government. :-)
LOL!
The “training” you mention is not so necessary.
God, Presence it is all the same if one had experienced it. Or, at least if a person can understand it logically.
On the other hand, if you want a foreigner to understand you, you have to learn their language.
But if you are a nationalist, you would say: “I do not want to learn any stupid language, have them learn our Great Language, if they want to understand Us!”
During the Cultural Revolution in China, if you’d say you don’t believe in the Communist Party, you would be shoot the same day.
But we are not in China, no, no, no.
American Gov. is the most enlightened and democratic Gov. in the whole Universe. It would see the difference between The True Church of Jesus Chris and his 40 disciples and some self made Lairs like Buddha, Mohamed, Meher Baba and others!!!
Thank you for your post. I appreciate the nudge. (I have certainly done my share.)
“There are no particles of consciousness, just one whole which “you” already are…The individuality you promote is a dream within consciousness as are you.”
Tell me:
Does not the raindrop require a speck of dust first…to transmigrate from spirit to form?
Is not every snowflake different, until they merge in the glorious sunlight?
Can anyone truly contest that from the ocean we were conceived and to the ocean we will return?
Isn’t the river both the cup of water I hold in my hand and all the water that ever flowed past its banks that I know I will never taste?
More nudges from you,
Dear Mr Ryan O’Poo!
I’d appreciate it greatly,
I most certainly do.
Allons-y, mes freres et mes ami(e)s, ecoutez vous de Les Miserables (the complete musical), par Cameron Mackintosh (Gordon Cameron and I were Chorleywood cowboys, ensembles):
“And if you fall, like Lucifer fell, you fall in flames, for so it is wrtten and so it shall be, from the doors of Eternity, that those who fumble and those who fall, must pay the (PEARL OF GREAT) price, blatantly obvious is it not”
“Let those who have ears to hear, let them hear!” big JC.
And as to the remark by some argumentarian (cannot have time to scroll up to find out) about airship:
“Try R101 – my engineering Wallace side, Clydeside ship and airship builders, responsible for the safety of those who were killed (we do ‘Apollo’-gise; but all will be MADE UP!”
The book is “The Airman Who Would not Die” – a true-to-life story” – LIFE by its very nature is eternal – you cannot sell it to innocents.
Also John Craig ( power-feature Queen of Hearts – grown silver grey way beyond his years would tell) will inform you that I travelled to work by car (before a manic drunk car-crash) on Route 101 (where the Very Best of The Eagles – another album I am trying to buy budget-wise) DARE – he who dares wins – Special Air Services motto – I have attained my glider 3 circuit basic glider solos and contolled (not solo) a Chipmunk RAF trainer. By the way, if it were not for RAF Tornadoes, there would have been even more, USA overkill-splattering-mayhem all round in the first Iraq phase.
I would say when Burton is brought to trial, that we request castration and quarterising of the rectal orifice before locking him away for Eterntiy, giving him a DVD only-playable TV with his favourite film “Death in Venice”.
Yours truly Don Eternito (don – he who gives – not takes”)
Next sending more Rushkin forward-looking evangelistic visionary.
Section 1: (72 hour holding of the Mental Health Act – 72 is Burton death number -”Field of Dreams” This Years – the Godfather – dinosaur car year tag.
I know I was there when I watched it.
Get the IDEA of being present yet?
And if anyone gets the message through to Burton tell him he can do The Ultimate Sacrifice with my vine/crown handled blunt knife I gave him. WOW!
In regards to your story of Theo, you may want to read Jerry Wennstroms book ‘The Awakened Heart’.
Jerry, at the peak of his carreer as a established painter destroyed all his works, gave away all his possessions and money, and stepped out into the Void for the next 15 years. He had no choice, he was ‘called’ – and you don’t argue with that. There is no doubt in my mind that Theo will come back from the underworld sooner or later, he just needs to be left alone for a while.
Like you said ‘The search for it was the beginning and perhaps the end of all this’, and you – of all people – know T.S Eliott and ‘Burnt Norton’ better than anyone…
Life Person,
We are not disagreeing. If Robert were forced to come down from the clouds he might get a better grip on himself than he has now but if it is his will to be dishonest we cannot take that away from him or the rest of the people that support him. You’re probably right. For someone who has not been moved by the dead in the fellowship, there’s little hope and yet the freedom to choose is there for all of us and assuming responsibility or bearing the consequences is also there for us. I personally think that we do each other a favor when we call each other’s attention before we move too far out into the wild. For someone like Robert who was so willing to restrict each of our centers so that we behaved more civilized, I don’t see what stops us from restricting his sex center so that he behaves more civilized and controls his greed. We’d be returning a much greater favor than he did for us!
Thanks Unoanimo, after all, depression is a negative emotion in which one’s self is not surfacing enough. We are strangers with ghost names on the blog, ghosts longing for communities that we’ve lost. Ghosts actualizing communities that we’ve never had. But the point that I was really trying to get to is that there are great highs and lows in each of us. Great qualities and weaknesses. There is no need to look at just one of the sides. One can look at both and still do what is necessary to shape or control the weakness, but if one forgets the quality, then there’s so much danger in damaging the whole. Like taking out a cancer without considering the rest of the patient.
Besides, that’s what one did and what the fellowship did. Black or white. Student or dead human being. Robert’s servant or worthless being. It all depends on where one starts from and the only place worth starting from is above because there’s nowhere to go if one cannot see anything but the weakness, in one’s self or the world around.
Another difficulty is letting go of the loved ones, for they were all loved no matter how they disappointed one. But let not the pain of surrendering them turn into bitterness. Yes, I’ve screamed and insulted perhaps, but I’ve loved too many people before the fellowship to not know that at some point one simply has to let them be and by that I don’t mean to not go ahead and try to stop what ever can be stopped with legal action, but the emotional side of it, also has to be taken care of. In fact, the sooner one takes care of the emotional aspect, the easier it is to take legal action.
“After the meeting we were able to share the books we have from Nisargadatta, not only “I Am That”, but the three books edited by Jeanne Dunn of his dialogues at the end of his life, as he continued teaching seemingly unabated despite throat cancer. ”
IMO anyone who is ill has nothing on anyone else. They lack even the rudiments of consciousness and have no license to teach anything to anyone. They are unable to transform negative emotions, thoughts, sensations or beliefs and IMO never have had. This was a big tip-off for me.
I have been reading your posts with great interest. It is clear you are a very intelligent person, who, sees that “the 4th way and the FoF ” no longer holds the facination it did when you first got in. There is maturity in your postings. Already a moving on.
You have come across advaita/non-duality, whatever you want to call, and something in it has touched something very deep in you that you RECOGNISE – recognise as truth and as your natural state. Good. Stay there.
Now comes the scarey part! Immeadiately the Ego grabs hold of the whole thing, takes the crystal clear water and starts to muddy it with concepts, fitting it into the 4th way, helping others, studying it, just like you did the 4th way- and by the time you are finished (give it a few more meetings of blah, blah, blah) and you will have a soup you will not be able to recognize let alone eat.
The scarier part is that maybe you are afraid of being nothing, no-one, not a special person, absolutely nothing. Maybe you are afraid of being quiet and looking inward, deeply, quietly. Maybe you are afraid of seeing no-one there.
At a very early stage, something in you has to recognize to either “throw the whole thing over”, and jump into the abyss (that is the only place where true freedom resides). Or you can play hide and seek with yourself for another 10,20, years. I have no idea who you are, male or female, or you age – just ask yourself the question – how much time do you have- maybe 50 years maybe 5 , maybe 2 weeks.
Is it really worth it? Another decade, maybe more of hide and seek!
If you have really read Nisargadatta, I mean really read him, then you will ask yourself some basic self inquiry questions.
If you have spent 20+ years in the FoF like I did, then knowledge is nothing new for you. And you must know by now, it is nothing you can attain. There is nothing you can discover and there is no understanding you can arrive at. You have already arrived. You were always there. It’s already completely present. You are it. Stop looking. You are THAT. What are you looking for?
A quote from Karl Renz (another advaita person resident in Germany)
” There are people who carry teachings by repeating same old words. These parrots, who maintain the traditional concepts, keep the misery alive. All teachings that state there is a way out of misery keep it going. They keep the conceptual process going so long that they become constipated.
Remember the one who spins, the spider is you. You are weaving this endless network of thoughts and forms. The moment will come when you tie so many knots in your brain that you may suddenly realize it’s impossible to ever undo them. The moment will come when you finally think: ” What’s the point of all this spinning? And who does the spinning anyway? Then you can give up trying and simply be still.”
Be well, and good luck.
The gist of it is ~ burn half of Nisargadatta and eat the other half and learn how to make really good Czechoslovakian meat pies and share them with as many vegetarians as possible.
Flying free
Your writing on non duality discourages me in terms of finding out more, it destroys a lot of valuble posts by others and pollutes the subject. You would better serve your currant beliefs by doing rather than talking. In my experience no one who writes so confidently and arrogantly, makes so many assumptions about what others need to do or what they think and feel is doing what you say and if you can’t do it why talk about it?
Those who transfer a formatory approach to a new belief system discourage me. It is not non duality but you finding something to substitute for your belief in the Fellowship that is discouraging. It is a wrong triad, wrong action but since in non-duality there is no scale and relativity no triads, octaves or processes there is nothing to discuss .
“If you have really read Nisargadatta, I mean really read him, then you will ask yourself some basic self inquiry questions.
Remember the one who spins, the spider is you. You are weaving this endless network of thoughts and forms. The moment will come when you tie so many knots in your brain that you may suddenly realize it’s impossible to ever undo them.”
Non dualists say there is no process yet then describe a process , no seperation yet define degree’s of seperation. There is no sleep to awaken from. To me this is sophism and meaningless. If you spoke of the importance and meaning this has for you I would accept that. Once you start making assumptions about others you are lying and apparantly do not see enough to know you are lying and why this introduces negative elements into the discussion.
If a non dualist approach is a valuble as you think treat it with the respect it deserves.
Thank you for your reply, which brings clarity to a subject I haven’t sufficiently emphasized. Yes, I agree with what you say about the understanding between O. and G. (And with Arthur at 17/79.) Moreover, I think O’s stories in ISOTM are not ” my personal history, and just that”, but lessons for future Workers and future groups.
Since I never met r.e.b. I could not refer to him directly; so the perspective in 17/76 is simply that of a student or seeker who is likely to participate in at least one group during his or her life, and who wishes to act from the Work when taking decisions, esp. major ones such as leaving.
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Re: Life Person, 17/80
Thank you for a powerful reply, Life Person. It offers a lot of food for thought.
Hell, I trusted my judgement to write what I had written, and there it comes, a storm of critique. :)
I think ‘trust your judgment’ is a slogan empty of content; it tends to fail us when we most need it…
Whenever we judge, we judge mostly by means of concepts and pictures that come to us from the past and from exogenous sources (from our life up to the moment of judgment, from other people, books, films, newspapers etc.)
Is everything that we judge correct?
The two people in ISOTM who left out of inner considering – ‘we’re not treated properly, they hate us, they keep secrets from us’ – had also trusted their judgment, (and they had no Work-book to refer to) and it was not right judgment.
I agree with you that the fof exhibits faith-based fundamentalism as appears from certain r.e.b. ideas and certain fof-members’ attitudes and patterns of belief.
It may even be like you say, that it is then not very helpful to turn for support to one of the sources of their propganda. In casu, ISOTM. Maybe not, but it’s the best I could come up with.
(Is the New Testament wrong because some people and churches have used it to justify various crimes? Is it right because others have used it as inspiration for masterpieces?)
A careful reading of ISOTM can reveal many differences from fof dogma. (And here it is where you are so right to claim that we often see not what is there but what we choose to believe. Which claim, by the way, also refutes your statement of ‘trusting one’s judgment’.)
Nowhere in ISOTM says G that one should stay in the group forever, that who leaves the scool is doomed, that there are many lifetimes etc. O himself left G. and started to teach on his own – how could he forbid that to others? O. refers to the religious teachings of hell and sin as gravely mistaken. O. and G. constantly emphasize the need for understanding and verification and critical spirit. The Fourth way is not the way of blind obedience, it is not the way of faith, and it is not the way of fear. When someone notices that fof moves away from the fourth way principles (and speaking here only in terms of the teaching, leaving aside r.e.b. personal behavior), than someone has to make a choice. And the principles are there, in ISOTM, to help one make that choice. (and thus help one stand against false authority)
For the rest, all I can say is that obviously my appreciation of ISOTM is different from yours, and that’s fine. I’m not trying to proselytize here, merely trying to think – and am grateful to you and all who offer their thoughts here, for it is all food for me to ponder. In the end, of course, the responsibility for what I choose to believe is my own, and that for what you choose to believe yours, and so on.
P.S. Something you said at 17/85 is so good, I couldn’t resist the temptation to copy-and-paste it here:
“Consider the implications of attributing “inner work” and “will” to someone incapable of acting like a decent person–not a “conscious being,” not an “angel,” just a decent human being, who with some consistency treats others as he would like to be treated, for no reason other than it’s the way mature people act.”
Do you really that there are people outside of you sick club that believe in the opinion off someone calling himself Jesus an believes that a vain and lying sex maniac has a higher level of being?
You are where you belong: in the Fellowship of Fools.
You are absolutely right. I hesitated to write, but words are just that. Hard to express, and they are just words. I don’t take them seriously, and you shouldn’t either. Words, words, words. Where-ever , whatever anyone is doing is just right. After reading many writings from Bass Ackwards- I just had to say something. The person reminded me of Me, and the twistings in the wind.
Just an aside. I look back on my years in the FoF and find them a bit like a tragic-comedy. I can only laugh out loud now. Fit non-duality into the FoF – perish the thought!
Enough words -Over and out!
Elena 84
I have no doubt that Robert has had considerable high states as I have no doubt that I have had them. What I think is worth realizing is that although a large number of people may today have access to high states it does not necessarily mean that they are all that is required to become a leader of men, rather that we are all being able to access other states and it is how we bring the understanding of them down to the actual practice of our lives that matters.
The “gift” of “higher states” will not in any way replace the need to eat, move, feel or think, it will simply colour our acts in the way we can paint them with our will.
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Dear Elena, I agree with what you say above.
My point is that students of Robert always use his supposed higher consciousness and their states to justify their faith in him and his “peculiar” behaviour. When they have nothing reasonable left to say, their ultimate weapon is the classic “the lower cannot see the higher” routine.
What I find most suspicious, in this context, is the scarcity of information provided by Robert about what it means to live with his level of consciousness and how it has been achieved. The world is filled with teachings and personal accounts of higher states and encounters with the numinous. Some are very detailed, for example in Buddhist, Tantra and Yoga literature one can find amazingly sophisticated descriptions of the psycho-physical process of awakening and how the awakened mind functions. Mystics of all denominations have given us testimonies of their agonies and ecstasies. And when people who have had higher states without being connected to a teacher or system share what they went through, they tend to include a lot of physical as well as perceptual details of what they experienced.
In thirtysomething years of teaching, what has Robert really explained about the experience of becoming conscious and the nature of consciousness? What are the signs, the states, the powers, the modes of perceptions, the physical and metaphysical consequences?
What dangers and challenges await one?
Did the teacher ever offer any practical insights like the ones following? (taken from one in a myriad websites on the subject)
“Other goals include the restructuring of old patterns of behavior as values rapidly change. The excess energy that accompanies the intense emotional and sensory events needs to be directed and assimilated. The ego attachment to the heightened experiences along with feelings of superiority which leads to separation from the Oneness can be explored and released. Personal myths and archetypes can be analyzed as to the importance that they hold for the individual’s transformation. The fear that accompanies rapid personal transition must be confronted and embraced. The different aspects of the Shadow self must be acknowledged and integrated. A balancing between self love and love for others further reconstructs the personality into higher levels of consciousness.”
Not that I am aware of… only vague talk of angels, omens, going from one number to the next, C influence telling him this or that…
Hmmm… could it be that the blind is leading the blind?
“Consider the implications of attributing “inner work” and “will” to someone incapable of acting like a decent person–not a “conscious being,” not an “angel,” just a decent human being, who with some consistency treats others as he would like to be treated, for no reason other than it’s the way mature people act.”
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If every current member of the Fellowship of Friends could read and sincerely consider this simple, uncomplicated observation from “Life Person” perhaps more would be able to see the truth and stop giving the time, energy and money to this man that enables him to continue in his corrupt and deceitful lifestyle.
It was a revelation to me when I looked at Robert Burton and realized in the depths of my being that he is not a decent person, not a good person or an honest person and had none of the virtues that I admire and would expect of someone who represents himself as a spiritual guide. He is not even a nice person. We told ourselves and each other many desperate lies in order to avoid letting this obvious fact about him penetrate our hearts. Continuing to do this is severely damaging to one’s character and conscience and I hope for every follower, no matter how entrenched in the dirty politics, administration and grasping for position, that they wake up to this before they have lost all possiblity of becoming a decent human being let alone spiritual growth.
Robert Burton regularly maxxes out his credit cards, and his personal bookkeeper, R_dney C_arter, continually has to deal with the credit card companies. This year Robert has been overspending so much that he can’t pay his cc bills at the end of each month. The Fellowship was partially audited late 2006, so it’s not quite as easy to redirect funds as it once was. The answer to this predicament? To get Al_s_nne, the most aggressive fundraiser, to phone a few of the wealthiest and most faithful longterm students and ask them to each donate $1000 towards a “gift” for Robert. When one of them, D_ana K, asked what the gift would be, she was told it was a gift, and that you don’t ask what your money is paying for if you’re giving a gift.
You may have noticed that the emails now request checks written to Robert Burton for the birthday, crystallization, anniversary of Isis gifts.and any other anniversaries that can be invented. In previous years, Robert graciously requested donations to the FOF special projects instead of personal gifts or personal money. Projects like the unbuilt bistro. I wonder where that money went.
Has it already been mentioned that when students pay in cash at potager lunches, that money is used to pay Robert’s boys when they take part in the more hardcore sex acts?
108 Alice E.
“A careful reading of ISOTM can reveal many differences from fof dogma. (And here it is where you are so right to claim that we often see not what is there but what we choose to believe. Which claim, by the way, also refutes your statement of ‘trusting one’s judgment’.)”
A book and something you experience yourself are 2 very different things.
Consider this, if RB or anyone else would write a book about FOF it would be different from what you or I experienced being in FOF.
Because of the different prospectives.
Same applies to O and ISOTM. WHY DO YOU THINK THAT WHAT HE WROTE IS COMPLETE AND OBJECTIVE?
And how can you compare a book with a real-life experiences?
You don’t consider ISOTM to be some sort of personal evolution bible, do you?
Otherwise, you just made it into a dogma.
That was a very odd reaction you had to Flying Free 101. I know the lady who wrote 101 well and she really does live the words. I guess something in her way of writing pushed your buttons. If you could get beyond that reaction you’d see that what she wrote makes a lot of sense.
I don’t take money from people to scare them to death in exchange with some half-baked theories and to throw eschatological anathemas on dissenters.
I am very aware that my opinion is just that – my opinion, and on this title it is offered in this forum; I don’t try to impose it on anyone, I don’t consider it objective and absolute truth. It’s a pity you didn’t bother to read that message till the end.
O. was right: negative emotions (in casu: your anger, or should I say righteous indignation, virtually splashing from the screen) are telling us lies and presenting only a part (and a deformed one at that) of reality. Your message is full of lies.
This non-dual stuff is all quite interesting. I spout off about it once and a while (a lot). I would even be bold enough to say I understand exactly what is being communicated, that I “get it”. The paragraph Laura quoted from the internet had a bunch of good stuff in it in my opinion.
I also agree whole heartedly with where A Former Student is coming from. It reminds me of what O. said about there being many descriptions in literature about the “4th state” of consciousness but few about “3rd state”.
Here we are in 2007 America (or 2007 wherever and if it is not America, lucky you) trying to find our way through life. Dealing with the financial realities and rampant materialism and all that stuff and also trying to keep our bearings in a “spiritual” world.
It is all well and good to say just “jump off” and “let go” and bravo to those who can do it and not get sent to the funny farm or prison-industrial complex.
Sometimes I can see quite clearly I am a “dream inside of me” and often return to the simple awareness of myself and at those times I wonder why there is a hell. But I don’t think at this time I am able to answer that question.
I think it has to do with transition (but then doesn’t everything) . It is not that our ego needs to be eliminated (can’t be in my opinion) and our conditioned and habitual selves somehow become uncondioned but the unconditioned in us awakens more and more in waves through time and it is a unique, solitary and difficult process. There are many parts of us that need to be “brought up to speed” and many bends and twists from the past that are hard to straighten. It may be we will have to walk with a limp for the rest of this life.
Thank you again to all for your stories and thoughts. Though, for me, there is the unpleasant taste of the fof language scattered throughout, still, for me, it has been an unexpextedly enlightening blog. Thank you all (and I mean all).
120 Yesri Baba: “the unconditioned in us awakens more and more in waves through time and it is a unique, solitary and difficult process. There are many parts of us that need to be “brought up to speed” and many bends and twists from the past that are hard to straighten”
Isn’t this just the mind complicating things? The mind likes to think it’s moving in time and progress is being made (or not), but really there is no time, it’s all now. It’s a small shift in being to see that you and I and everyone else are nothing but awareness, which is already completely here, no progress or change necessary.
100 Renald: “IMO anyone who is ill has nothing on anyone else. They lack even the rudiments of consciousness and have no license to teach anything to anyone. They are unable to transform negative emotions, thoughts, sensations or beliefs and IMO never have had. This was a big tip-off for me.”
Thanks for the wackiest entry for a while! Did you do some kind of a survey to come to this conclusion?
Diarrhea- a condition in which feces are discharged from the bowels frequently and in a liquid form.
Sounds right.
Eat a hard boiled egg. Should help.
Hopefully it’s not cholera. That would be deadly.
To die (become identified, asleep) from dehydration (absence of love and detachment) is not very nice.
I like this, from Nisargadatta. Maybe you will too.
Q: What you say goes beyond all experience. If it is not experience-able, why at all talk about it?
M: Consciousness is intermittent, full of gaps. Yet there is the continuity of identity. What is this sense of identity due to, if not to something beyond consciousness?
Q: If I am beyond the mind, how can I change myself?
M: Where is the need of changing anything? The mind is changing anyhow all the time. Look at your mind dispassionately; this is enough to calm it. When it is quiet, you can go beyond it. Do not keep it busy all the time. Stop it — and just be. If you give it rest, it will settle down and recover its purity and strength. Constant thinking makes it decay.
Q: If my true being is always with me, how is it that I am ignorant of it?
M: Because it is very subtle and your mind is gross, full of gross thoughts and feelings. Calm and clarify your mind and you will know yourself as you are.
Q: Do I need the mind to know myself?
M: You are beyond the mind, but you know with your mind. It is obvious that the extent, depth and character of knowledge depend on what instrument you use. Improve your instrument and your knowledge will improve.
Q: To know perfectly I need a perfect mind.
M: A quiet mind is all you need. All else will happen rightly, once your mind is quiet. As the sun on rising makes the world active, so does self-awareness affect changes in the mind. In the light of calm and steady self-awareness inner energies wake up and work miracles without any effort on your part.
Q: You mean to say that the greatest work is done by not working?
M: Exactly. Do understand that you are destined for enlightenment. Co-operate with your destiny, don’t go against it, don’t thwart it. Allow it to fulfill itself. All you have to do is to give attention to the obstacles created by the foolish mind.
I guess that you are trying to say that my postings are like diarrhea. It’s a bad choice of insult. You know that one of Robert’s sexual pleasures involves having young men shit on him, don’t you? What did you think the Ex-lax was for?
The same applies for calling the blog mental masturbation. Sometimes Robert just masturbates while he watches his boys fuck each other.
Are you saying that what was said about Robert by Critical Mass is not true? Or are you saying that they may be true but what happens to money in the FOF is not important?
I think many of us really want to understand what is true and what is not. I personally, am surprised by my incredible lack of curiosity for so long, regarding how my hard earned dollars are used, and how my teacher uses his time and resources to further the Fellowship. How could I buffer these questions for so long?
Your response, since it criticizes without addressing any of the statements made, does not help, but tends to reinforce the possibility that there is some truth to the allegations that Robert is not a good steward of FOF resources.
Does he NOT max out his credit cards?
Is it NOT true that he is unable to pay what he owes?
Is it NOT true that cash from Potoger’s goes to Robert’s Boys?
Is it NOT true that those asking where “Gift” money goes are told that it is none of their business?
And where did the money for the bistro go?
If you know anything about these questions then why not answer them directly? If you think that they are irrelevant towards understanding Robert, then why do you think that? If you don’t know anything then why not find out or let them stand so that someone who does know can help us to understand?
Many of us became tired of the Fellowship’s inability to be truthful about Robert – to try to honesly answer some of the allegations against him. Why not be more open and honest? Many of us felt that it was partly our role to support Robert which meant explaining his actions. But now we want to really understand. I remember a student being asked to leave for wanting to openly discuss such matters. Why all the paranoia and secrecy and negative responses to anyone that asks or tries to discuss it in the open? Robert’s level of consciousness and the way he manefests his accomplishments is important to every Fellowship member – afterall, he is defining their way of thinking, acting, and their tastes.
I personally believe that if the Fellowship is going to survive, it will need to openly and objectively address many issues which have been repeatedly raised and are made more public in this blog. This may mean accepting that there are some real problems in Robert’s judgement. It may mean trying to address them instead of hiding the truth so as to reinforce what I believe to be a myth – (that everything Robert does is beneficial to the school and acceptable from the point of view of higher morality). Currently there are no real checks and balances in Robert’s behavior so as to ensure sound decisions. This denial that there may be a problem and refusal to find solutions may eventually lead to an end to what we worked so hard to build.
But answers like yours that attack those that question without addressing any of the information presented, only reinforce the impression that there is something that the Fellowship is desperate to hide. This approach does not work very well for those seeking truth.
Some of what I post comes from my direct experience, some has been told to me by the people involved, some comes from the general pool of rumors. I don’t wish to reveal my identity, so I will not reveal which parts of my posts belong to which category. I am happy to retract a claim if the people involved post directly to the blog. There was a good example of that when V denied that he had been asked to hack into the blog. (It seems that he had been asked if he could trace the bulk emailings.) If G or R or J or other students involved in the hardcore sex want to post their experiences and clarify what they do, how often, and how much they enjoy it, then let them post and I will retract any inaccurate claims.
I think we see eye to eye to eye. I’m tend to be skeptical when people lightly throw around the phrase Death of the Ego. My peak experiences fall into two prime catagories: the sublime and the terrifying. When I read my first Tony Parsons’ book back in ‘01, I wondered what the difference was between his reported state and some sort of disassociative mental illness. Maybe I wonder that because my ego is not ready for the big leap yet. However, I’m more inclined to believe that these peak experiences are meant to be integrated into our conscious minds to help direct and inform our lives, rather than them being an end unto themselves, a destination.
“Can we really walk around high all the time?”— That was the question of my twenties and thirties. I’ve abandoned it for tougher, more interesting questions, but I do occasionally come back to it.
“Why all the paranoia and secrecy and negative responses to anyone that asks or tries to discuss it in the open?”
Well, for one thing it’s defending one’s gullibility, malleability, blindness and sometimes stupidity. I can easily see that it was in me at one time during some of my years of membership.
Of course, where the FOF has gone even more batshit crazy, since i left, one needs a higher level of buffer. You need to stick your fingers even deeper in your ears, and sing your song even loader so nothing penetrates.
When one lives near a garbage dump, one eventually blocks out the smell and doesn’t notice it much, but when someone starts smearing shit all over you, you really need to develop better internal defenses to ignore it.
I’ve found from observation that the more one defends, ignores or lies in defense of the FOF, the harder they are hit by the shock of eventual recognition, if they’re lucky.
I remember a couple “teachers” and students who boldly and emphatically denied the truth for years even when the truth was blatantly being held up in their faces. When they finally accepted the facts, they, even more than the actual victims, frequently seemed more affronted by their having been deceived than the men it was actually perpetrated upon. That’s pretty interesting right there. The most pompous and arrogant seem to be the most offended by their own stupidity and blindness.
It’ll all happensthe way it’s supposed to. But that doesn’t mean one can’t see and be part of the momentum and direction that seems inevitable.
I completely agree with what you’re saying and still believe that it is not all totally rotten. If Robert were made to pay a couple of years in solitude and brought back to a decent community, he’d be just another human being with a thousand mistakes on his back to let go of. So would Girard and a whole lot of people in and outside the fellowship.
I am all for legal action because it is the fellowship’s intention to continue ripping people off but legal action does not mean that people cannot change. Enough suffering changes any one.
That was a very odd reaction you had to Flying Free 101. I know the lady who wrote 101 well and she really does live the words. I guess something in her way of writing pushed your buttons. If you could get beyond that reaction you’d see that what she wrote makes a lot of sense.
RN
My reaction is based on the truly appalling lack of understanding in criticizing someone for doing exactly the same thing she did in the post. If trying to convince or educate people about non-duality as Bass Ackwards is doing is an incorrect process so is writing about it.
The whole systemic logical contradictions inherent in non-dualism continues to frustrate me.
If she wrote “In my opinion”, “In my experience”, “From my currant perspective” then it is fine. When anyone presents what can only be know to someone with objective consciousness as a fact like Gregory Goodwin likes to do then it is fair to question this. It can be indicative of either poor communication skills, merely not using the correct tense or an underlying attitude in which that person is in imagination about their consciousness.
I think the different quality of response indicates this ladies being (113 flying free ) as do Gregory’s violently rude objections ( idiot, fool, retard, mentally ill, shut the fuck up) to what he sees as challenges to his authority as a conscious man. Sometimes we can see something through criticism ( stepping on someones corns) better than other ways. Some people respond to a challenge to be the words by being the words others are like GG. We all make are own choices. If non dualism is a positive force than the most important thing is to model the positive results.
I am very impressed with her response ( not only because she agrees with me) but because it shows non-identification and a lack of expressing negativity, qualities I would like to have.
Rhino Neal ,wrote
“If you could get beyond that reaction you’d see that what she wrote makes a lot of sense. ”
If you could get behind your preconceptions you might see what she wrote made no sense at all. It is the contradiction of non dualism that after you say words cannot describe it you should shut up or find a different way of writing about it. My brief experience is that there is a flood of words many of them for sale about non-dualism, with seminars etc. just another form of selling awakening. Does this mean it is not valuable , of course not, but for everyone? That is just wrong, lazy thinking.
There was a book called “Many roads, one journey”. What is right and useful depends on you . It is where the individual is at in their development that determines what is useful to move on to their next phase. Neither non-dualism nor those who are its apologists can address this because this is scale and relativity. Non-dualism does not include the concepts of process, scale and relativity. In non-dualism there is no process of becoming ready to hear the truth, no process of absorbing and making the truth ones own because it admits of no process. This to me is ridiculous.
Can I see a plant grow, a fire burn, a wound heal?
If it is useful for fellowship members, if because of the experience of the Fellowship of Friends there is something appealing in this approach that is fine. If you become an evangelical non-dualist remember that any active force produces a reaction. What is useful is to find out how to be third force.
“What I find most suspicious, in this context, is the scarcity of information provided by Robert about what it means to live with his level of consciousness and how it has been achieved. The world is filled with teachings and personal accounts of higher states and encounters with the numinous.”
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The reason Robert Burton does not get ‘campfire cozy’ with naturally, curiously discerning people is that it would reveal that he’s simply another Man #4, struggling like his ‘friends’ to gather something together (not sure what togetherness means to an entity who has formed a ’school of togetherness’ based on lies, deceit, spiritual fraud and downright cruel treatment of both the living and the dead.)
One interesting and sorta ironic fact (my opinion) is that although Robert Burton holds his entire spiritual ego up on the stilts of ‘his idea’ of C-Influence (conscious spirits), he has not regard or concept of unconscious spirits, i.e., those spirits still down here, who are basically no different than one’s (inside) bodies, just a bit more pissed off at times, for distractions are not so easy to come by when you’re disembodied and do not have ‘a machine’, a sorta ‘big doll’ to play with and share with other ‘dolls’; this also means there are less buffers, etc.
For ages, Shamans, conscious beings, (even contemporary Sufi teachers ~ See “Daughter of Fire” by Irina Tweedie (you would love this book Elena; I think you’d also find a sort of soul-mate in Irina) have PAID inner and outer ATTENTION to the actuality of the spiritual world meshed up against the one that plays itself in and out of the physical…
Robert Burton knows nothing about this dimension; for, if he did he’d not be creating such enormously pitiful ’shocks’ for such, feeding the painbody side of that which denies these ’spirits’ graduation into a soul-octave…
For me, (because I’ve heard about it from people who know of my blog postings categorizing the crimes of the Fellowship of Friends) what looks like identification with third dimensional stuff, keeping of an account, lunatic passive-aggression and so forth; is something very different (for me), for them, who knows…
Looks can deceive, as Robert Burton has, by default, taught his students most elementary level of conscience, their subservient (wrong work BTW) instinctive center’s relationship to his ’smiling one’…
For me, all that we are doing on this blog reaches far beyond the obvious personal realm, it is real food on a table that the ‘right and wrong’ simply cannot see (yet)…
This ‘table’ has existed since human beings were established on the planet; albeit an eyelash on God’s eye, at least it’s god’s eyelash and not something you’d buy at Walmart in the ‘beautification section’, if you catch my drift…
Our choices, our words, our conclusions, laughter, rage… all this stuff gives birth…
As far as omens go; in a real school (my opinion), the hobby and the craft of interpretations would go through a rigorous consensus; and while dealing with such coincidences that coupled together ’seem’ to form some sort of message, it would not be made to look like it was coming from the nucleus of the school, one person, one egg, rather, from the nest to the egg, not from the unhatched egg to the nest…
Robert’s seemingly always having to do something with nothing, ‘teaching’ meaning, though not being what the meaning imply, putting mind-labels to simple beauty that transcends mind activity,
labeling ancient labels that simply refer to more labels, ancient affirmations reinforcing his affirmations, that in turn reinforce the student’s affirmations (a silly circle for a school of awakening, if you ask me) yet he does not allow any dialog during the lecture, I never had that in University,
we were always allowed to express, add, debate, remind, expose our assumptions, being, idiot-ness ‘out there’ from ‘in here’; not only are Robert Burton’s students ‘trapped’ externally in a mind-form-school, so are their internal worlds caught in a web of mind activity, looking forwards to, gotta have, gotta be recognized for having donated to this for Robert, etc.
Although, I did experience Robert Burton’s way of ‘doing discussion’, somewhere else as a small child, which, consequentially, after having experienced such, told my ‘mentors’ that I was never going back, they did not resist my ’supposed stubbornness’ and allowed me to stay at home on Sundays,
I believe it was Batman & Robin, MASH, I Love Lucy, The Three Stooges, Green Acres, The Adams Family and various ’specials’ that offered me a broader look at god’s sermon…
Thank you Mortisha… when I saw you cutting the heads off the roses, to then place the left over stems in the vase as ‘your sort of bouquet’ I knew at that moment, real love…
A little SPACE would be nice, just give Asaf a ‘real job’ that demonstrates his weaknesses and being-ends, not one that overly compensates and expresses his automatic talents, maybe he’ll snap out of it… yet…
An egg cannot build a nest; although the probable arrival of one does… The Fellowship of Friends, as it is, seems to me to be a nest that gives birth to more nests, while students go around playing ‘hot potato’ with their eggs…
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I had never thought of Robert as a bookkeeper or a business owner. And students as shareholders.
This model would be very appropriate in a bank or a company, but not in a Religious organization, as I believe FOF to be. And Religious in a true meaning of this word, as something that brings us closer to Higher levels of being.
So, from my point of view. We give our money not to ask something in return. If we feel that RB or FOF owe us something because we had worked so hard to make teaching payments, and now we are disappointed, because we learned that and that, then it is a lie, on our part. Our aim was wrong right from the beginning. We hoped to invest some of our money, and hopefully, with time, get a good return. Like, maybe Robert would finally announce that we are a conscious being, or something like that.
But if you give your money out of abundance, not scarcity, why would you worry if RB had spent it on some new cloth for himself or his friends? It’s not the only way he spend money after all.
Buying consciousness inevitably brings deep disappointment.
My post (80) wasn’t intended as a personal criticism, and I apologize if it came off that way. It was intended as a critique of treating any form of teaching–in this case, even a valuable book–as sacred, or suspending critical thinking about it. In Search was one of the most influential books I’ve read, and continue to recommend it, and continue to find it a good source of practical suggestions. But it’s still just a book, and O. was still just a man.
Nor did I mean to suggest that everyone should throw all counsel to the winds, do whatever pops into their heads, and call it “trusting their own judgment.”
What I saw, and continue to see, in the FoF is an imbalance, in which there has been far too much blind faith, supported by chapter and verse, and far too little common sense and trusting in one’s own observations and conscience. It appears to have increased, rather than decreased, over the years, to the point that people are now fed a continuous stream of material that has no practical value other than as supposed evidence that whatever RB says is true.
I don’t disagree that a person trapped in such a situation might find it useful to read some of the passages in In Search you’ve highlighted, but I think it may be best for many to simply stop filtering all of their views about the FoF through what they’ve been told by FoF, and even “work books,” which it may be difficult to read with true objectivity after so many years of investing them with tremendous significance. There comes a time to come to one’s own conclusions, even about things about which one does not feel entirely confident. You ask whether we can judge everything correctly, and I would say, at a certain point, we have no choice, and waiting until we feel completely confident in our own judgment before exercising it leads to 20-year stints in the FoF, followed by what-was-I-thinking.
One implication of Bruce’s #139 is that certain types of people are more, rather than less, likely to remain fiercely loyal the more irrational–more absurd, more contrary to common sense–the church doctrine becomes. Some people just seem to prefer a faith-based teaching, maybe because it relieves them of having to do any critical thinking and any responsibility; following the teaching is an end in itself, and becomes the highest end. There’s a reason most people on earth adhere to a religion that essentially focuses on believing things that are unverifiable, and don’t think RB hasn’t noticed this. There are ways that harness this urge, and may well lead to high states, and maybe awakening, but the FoF doesn’t attempt to do that, nor does RB have the experience to teach such methods, any more than listening to mass at the corner church is reasonably calculated to lead to awakening.
Others told themselves when they joined that what they really liked was the emphasis on verification, because they’re nobody’s fool. We still hear this; it’s one of the more powerful methods of keeping those who imagine themselves more sophisticated than the “believers” in the sheep-shearing cycle. It eventually becomes unacceptable to them to acknowledge that they are, indeed, somebody’s fool, so they cling all the more tightly to their folly. Leading to, for example, the sad spectacle of Who Knows (80), or the careful, “I will grant you such-and-such, but it remains true that thus-and-so” rationalizations of the more articulate sheep.
A Religious organization? No wonder I left. I joined a Fourth Way School (or so I thought) that was going to impart practical ways to reach higher levels of awareness/consciousness. I did not get involved to be in an environment of faith and worship.
I knew something had changed……..
You know guys and girls that Crit. Mass’s real name is ……………
And he is known to be a pedophile, homophobic, narcissistic, a sadomasochist, underground terrorist, Maoist, sloth, murderer, lier, drug addict, and a friend of Fidel Castro.
And until you prove me wrong I will continue spreading all the rumors I had heard about you, Mr. ……….
I would think that if you have the balls to place someone’s name you’d have the balls to back it up with yours. Your integrity, honor, honesty, inner bravery and all around usefulness diminishes more with each post.
“A book and something you experience yourself are 2 very different things.”
“You don’t consider ISOTM to be some sort of personal evolution bible, do you?
Otherwise, you just made it into a dogma.”
You are not really saying much here. Study and reflection of ISOTM is not the same as making it a dogma. This is a total misuse of the language. No where did they write this. One observation is a proven fact. Members of the Fellowship of Friends have failed to utilize what is of value in the work books.
Re reading, questioning, comparing ones experiences to what is described is a useful process. So is stating your opinions whether correct or not, that is if you have the being to stand the reaction to shallow observations.
“A book and something you experience yourself are 2 very different things.”
Did you have to think real hard to get to this rather unprofound “fact”.
Part of the method of the 4th way as taught by Ouspensky, Gurdjieff, Nicoll and Collin was a development of the intellectual function. An ability to think. In this sense there is a similarity to the 3rd way or way of the monk as through thinking we attempt to discover truth and than develop the being to live the knowledge. Nicoll wrote in depth on “metonia” to think in a new way and the transformational power of right thinking using intellectual parts of centers. “to think in a new way” in modern psychology is called cognitive therapy and is used in a number of therapeutic approaches as well as in transformational psychology.
In relation to members of the Fellowship non-dualism may serve this function of opening up the possibility of changing attitudes and developing new ways of thinking. Rereading the core work books and going back to ones owns verifications and understanding as well as questioning the methods and experience of the Fellowship of Friends from my perspective is a useful activity.
Maybe not what works for everyone but one to which I am wholly sympathetic. I do not believe that the Fellowship, Robert Burton ,his teaching and the 4th way and system are the same thing. For almost 40 years Robert Burton has and continues to use the Gurdjieff and Ouspensky names as marketing tools for his own fraudulent “school” which is neither a Gurdjieff – Ouspensky teaching nor part of The 4th way.
In a list of the top 10 most important books in my life “In Search of the Miraculous” would be #1, with “Beelzebub’s Tales”, “The 4th way” , “The Theory of Celestial Influence” and Nicoll’s work following closely.
Is it a “perfect” book. No , but it has much that is valuble from the two men I consider most important in the development and transmission of the ideas that give the 4th way its transformational power. It is not the beginning and end of work it is one part of and that an important part of personall work to develop ones own ability for “active being mentation” by studying and using as much from all sources as possible.
Many of the ideas that were new when Gurdjieff, Ouspensky, Nicoll and Collin wrote are now part of everyday knowledge. Dr. Phil uses techniques of transformational psychology on a popular show. Books on transformational psychology proliferate. This may all be a result of the release of this powerful knowledge into life some 60 years ago.
A grounding in a subject is not the end of the study of that subject but the beginning.
I will try harder! And I promise, one day you will be impressed. :-)
People make this mistake all the time. Like looking up in the Bible about how to behave sexually. I had read something about this recently. According to Bible, or to the preacher that was writing, it is good for the woman to swallow the sperm of their lovers, since Bible says that the semen should not be spoiled.
What a nonsense conclusion.
Same with you Pet. Do you think I should consult Robert about how I brush my teeth or ride a bike?
Furthermore, there was no direct request from Robert asking not to participate in the blog.
And didn’t expect you to respond to the actual content of my post. None of you brave souls ever do. Judging by the arrogance and self-love in your posts I would guess that you’re still putting out for the man. You seem similar to the description of another student. The one, who after a few drinks, started to recite the price of all the gifts he got for his whoring.
I’m glad you’re content with where you are. I’m content with where you are also. I think we’d both agree with that.
Of course, I think you’ve been here before, with another cowardly pseudonym.
“But if you give your money out of abundance, not scarcity, why would you worry if RB had spent it on some new cloth for himself or his friends? It’s not the only way he spend money after all.”
________________________________________________
“But” and “if”… two of the most famous School of Relative Awakening words for buffering the ‘facts’…
To me, based on my personal sense of how I earn my money (it’s not from mommy or daddy BTW) and even if it were, I’d wish to honor them for how they procured it the same as I attempt to honor myself…
In ‘the real world’ no one gives money from “abundance”, you’re stuck in a Captain Kangaroo world where Laurence Welk is blowing bubbles and Elvis doesn’t fart…
To blithely give money out with no regard or connection to one’s conscience is sleep-walking; something I’d rather not be involved in while opening my skull up for brain surgery possibilities; so keep that money flowing, drown your conscience in ‘Party hard while you can.’ euphoria…
money is a ’symbol’, it shows something of ourselves as we spend it and how… If you wish to spend your ‘blood diamonds’ knowingly on more silk suits for Robert Burton so that his cactus hide appears more smooth and shiny, welp, party hard dude, practice smiling, you’ll need it…
___________________
“One observation is a proven fact. Members of the Fellowship of Friends have failed to utilize what is of value in the work books.”
__________________
“Proven fact” from “one observation” (?) That’s brave…
Yet, this is simply not true; take this ‘odd’ chain of events;
In the beginning Robert Burton outright lied about his ‘celibacy’ (falsely and imaginatively aligning himself with a phantom image of what he could not be for Alex Horn);
Alongside this he lied about being ‘his school’ being a direct descendant of the G & O fourth way ‘railroad’… Lot’s of spinning in the very beginning, as Robert Burton hid out, slinking around behind the work book study groups, a Sith in a monk’s robe…
In the beginning students did utilize the work books, quotes were incorporated in articles published, daily cards, etc… So long as Robert Burton stayed out of the spot light of the Train Engine and off the tracks…
As soon as Robert Burton ‘intentionally’ (not to mention the newspapers and letters circulating exposing him) exposed himself, the fourth way workbooks and their influence began to dwindle, (this is not a coincidence, because Robert Burton’s truer being-self had always been in this state of not aligning with the work books or with the role of a true teacher)…
So, as his darkness was brought to ‘light’, (THE LIGHT, being the work books) were brought to darkness; now, that’s a “proven fact”… (not that I am trying to prove anything here, it’s there already for the connections to be made)…
As more and more of Robert Burton’s DARKNESS was eaten as LIGHT, the more and more the school began metamorphosing into an outward representation of Robert Burton’s inner mirror…
So there, ‘Who Knows’, toast to that…
Who Knows ~
You wrote ~
“I will try harder! And I promise, one day you will be impressed. :-)”
_____________
Remember, those in here have graduated from Robert Burton groveling (for the most part)… So keep that language for Asaf and Dorian, you might even get a tip or all the tips from the last Potage Sunday Luncheon.
________________________________________
142 A Former Student: “If trying to convince or educate people about non-duality as Bass Ackwards is doing is an incorrect process so is writing about it.”
What Flying Free actually said was: “Immediately the Ego grabs hold of the whole thing, takes the crystal clear water and starts to muddy it with concepts, fitting it into the 4th way, helping others, studying it, just like you did the 4th way.”
She’s advising against trying to incorporate Advaita into the Fourth Way, and against studying and discussing it intellectually as we did with the Fourth Way. There’s something particularly odd about introducing it into FoF meetings, kind of like new wine in old bottles.
But talking about it in other contexts can be helpful, sharing experiences and so on. Writing about it is difficult because words are inherently dualistic, but it’s not a complete waste of time, especially if you’re describing what you’re experiencing.
It’s nothing to get upset about, but for sure the mind is not very enthusiastic about the reality of not existing, although it enjoys playing around with the concept intellectually.
Who knows – you bitterness, anger and rudeness do more damage to the reputation of your beloved school than most posts of ex-members.
Whether you know it or not but you represent the “face” of the school here and are seen as a true product of it. (Just like other wonderful people like Simple Truth, Jesus etc.) Nice “face”!
Any prospective student who’ll ever read your beautiful postings will have no problem deciding whether to join FOF or not!
So please keep talking! You have to keep talking! Your angles are great. May be you should invite your like-minded friends to participate too. ;)
By the way, the main school task is about non-expression of negativity… Obviously, School really “works” for you.
““But” and “if”… two of the most famous School of Relative Awakening words for buffering the ‘facts’…
——
Is that one of the “facts” from Snapple?
Or did you read it in the Webster Dictionary?
Oh, no. It could not be true!
You made it up!
You fucking lier!
I almost believed you!
And now no more!
Give me back my money!
If not I will sue you!
——-
In ‘the real world’ –
there is no conscious beings and awakening, you know.
There is only money making slave machine, that dictates how and where you will spend your money. What you live for and how you will die. That is your ‘real world’, my dear.
on 31 Jul 2007 at 5:12 pm
121 Rhino Neal
“120 Yesri Baba: “the unconditioned in us awakens more and more in waves through time and it is a unique, solitary and difficult process. There are many parts of us that need to be “brought up to speed” and many bends and twists from the past that are hard to straighten”
“Isn’t this just the mind complicating things? The mind likes to think it’s moving in time and progress is being made (or not), but really there is no time, it’s all now. It’s a small shift in being to see that you and I and everyone else are nothing but awareness, which is already completely here, no progress or change necessary.”
Who are you too tell anyone what their experience is? That is really offensive. Haven’t you had enough of that in the Fellowship of Friends?
You want to be a “true believer” in non dualism and start preaching it but you do a disservice to the information by discouraging reasonable individuals who look at the being required to be formatory and are perhaps not interested as for example myself who already has more than enough things to be opinionated about. Hopefully your unasked for opinions will receive the same treatment as those “true believers” in the church of Robert Burton.
The reality is that if you experienced what you described and it was not just intellectual center sophistry you would not need to put it on anyone.
You wrote
“Isn’t this just the mind complicating things?”
If there is no division how can you make a division. If there is no time how can there be a state of realizing it or not? How can there even be a word?
If you wrote “there is a state where there is no time” I could accept that. When you say there is no time that’s just stupid its sophistry, (Main Entry: soph·ist·ry
Pronunciation: ’sä-f&-strE
Function: noun
1 : subtly deceptive reasoning or argumentation
2 : SOPHISM
Pronunciation: ’sä-”fi-z&m
Function: noun
1 : an argument apparently correct in form but actually invalid; especially : such an argument used to deceive )
you can say time is part of Maya an illusion but it is.
Here is a good example of Sophistry
“It’s a small shift in being to see that you and I and everyone else are nothing but awareness, which is already completely here, no progress or change necessary.”
A small shift in being is progress or change this statement is not internally consistent. I am amazed at the lack of critical thinking and logic inherent in this approach.
Let me say one more time in case you missed it. This does nothing for me , It did not the first time I checked it out, it has not each time I return and your own inability to say anything that does not contradict itself does not make me want to learn more.
If it works for you that fine. The only reason I reply at all is a reaction to the tone of presenting objective knowledge which I find questionable. present it to me . It is a wrong triad you cannot force something like this on someone. There is such an incredible amount of really useful material that I am unlikely to experience in my lifetime and this is simply not high up on my list.
130 Joseph G
“Dear A Former Student:
I like this, from Nisargadatta. Maybe you will too.”
Perhaps you missed the part where I said I am not interested? I try to be positive if this is useful to others, if it somehow neutralizes the effects of the Fellowship on individuals thought process then it is good.
To me it is not in any way useful. It does not contain anything new and it negates what are facts in my reality.
What are my facts. When I have experiences of higher centers it includes an awareness and understanding of scale and relativity, I “see” octaves, triads and processes. What is in the system the ideas of the functions are facts. I do not seek a definition for the self but have an experience of it that is as non duality says not words. Can I be mistaken? wrong? In imagination? certainly. So what it is my own understanding and I experience no desire for more words of this kind.
I am diabetic, I take insulin. Do you imagine it then becomes a law that everyone should take insulin? If Non-dualism is good for you use it and accept it as part of what makes up your individuality do not look to me for approval or sanction perhaps it treats a condition I don’t have.
Try and see this is not a value Judgement I am not saying anything about the objective value of non dualism because I don’t know.. It is however a wrong triad to try and force an understanding on another.
Meditate on a tree. See how all branches become one and connect to the roots. Each individual leaf can be described using a system of three dimensional co-ordinates x-y-z. The path from each leaf to the main trunk is unique. Some go in opposite directions there is no right direction everything depends on the relationship of the part to the whole. This is my “consciousness’” and One I am happy with. I am a part , containing parts, that is a part of a larger whole.
Yes, ‘Who Knows’ that sort of energy and semantics is pretty much what’s underneath the Galleria carpet, we thank you for your honesty, so far as stuff under the silk carpet goes, along with the nuclear fallout of hundreds of consciences that Robert Burton has disintegrated by his ‘perfect smile’ and open fly…
________________________________________________
Who Knows?
Your conscience…
Hey, and watch that “my dear” crap; it gives me the willies,
dear.
And if you do not like my face, know, it is just a reflection of yourself.
People like Bruce, and the rest of you, are really nice and sweet, and it is only by accident that the words fuck, idiot, imbecile, and the rest slips out. Usually you are Angels.
Fkyou!
And I think if any prospective student ever comes here, they will have enough to read, and maybe my post will make them doubt in what you write so confidently.
Regarding negative emotions, truly, believe it or not, I do not feel any negative emotions towards anyone on this blog.
Although I have an aggressive style of writing it does not mean that I am negative.
164. A former Student.
My preceding comment did not apply to your post, but to the moonstruck tone prevalent at the moment.
Thank you for expressing many of the I’s that have been trying to coalesce in me in relation to advaita and niggardly data. We are not in a majority in this, In fact we are in a minority it seems, well among the vociferous ones at least. Maybe a case of out of the frying pan and into the fire. Youre not alone.
Cy.
Dear Former Student,
you said:
“In non-dualism there is no process of becoming ready to hear the truth, no process of absorbing and making the truth ones own because it admits of no process. This to me is ridiculous.
Can I see a plant grow, a fire burn, a wound heal?”
– Well, can you actually see the plant grow? I can’t! I see things as they are now, sort of as snap-shots, and mind later compares, uses memory, makes conclusions and COMPOSES a process. This is what seem to be happening.
Process is a mind-made string of recorded events from the past.
In the now there is no process, simply what is. The Now is too fast for the mind to keep up and tie things and events into a process.
So process is a mental concept, very useful in our lives, but nevertheless – imaginary, a mind activity so to speak.
In the immediacy on the Now there is no process.
There is no time either – this is another (useful) mind concept, or another (useful) illusion.
I think you are so sensitive to this stuff because you seem to value mind activity and hold on to mind-made concepts and ideas. It’s great, and nothing is wrong with it.
Advaita simply challenges this way of looking at things, since a lot of reality is so habitually replaced by mental concepts… In a way, we tend to think and explain our life away…
You said:” I had never thought of Robert as a bookkeeper or a business owner. And students as shareholders.”
We each have different aims and joined for different reasons.
I am only vaguely interested in trance like states that make me feel good but really don’t help anyone or go anywhere. I like those states but know how to get them with or without Robert. Presence is mine and yours and we don’t any longer need to pay someone like Robert for this service. We just have to be present.
Presence is one aspect of being, but I am also interested in developing as a human being. For me this means developing my ability to love, to be kind and honest. I personally feel that everything we do is a reflection of our being so if I do something that does nobody, including myself, any good then I have to question my being.
So if I over extend my credit cards, or treat people poorly, or hurt others because of my selfish desires, I would question my being. If I love an organization like the Fellowship and I misuse the property, misuse the resources, or put the entire wellbeing of the organization at risk I would question my being.
In short, how we use what we are given, whether it be talents, money, love, respect or presence, is a reflection of our being.
Some of us are questioning Robert’s being because he seems to misuse people and money and he continues to put the Fellowship as an organization at risk by continuing behaviors that are pretty difficult to justify from any healthy point of view.
Now you argue that he is not a bookkeeper or an owner. Then why is he then the main decision maker on every major point regarding how the resources are spent? He is also clearly not a prophet – then why was he allowed to continue making prophesies starting in the early 70s that never came true, even though he tried on occasion to claim that they had. He is also not a musician – then why is he allowed to dictate the musical tastes at Isis. He is also not a builder or architect – then why is he allowed to encourage people not to follow building codes or laws? So what is he – what are you paying him to do? Are you paying him to create difficult situations that then that hurt young men, which cause good students to leave, and bring expensive law suits, which block wine sales and which risk the Fellowship’s existence.
You may say that all these things that go against our feminie dominance are neccessary for us to break free. This is a childish way to work with feminine dominance. It is like the teenager that gets pregnant to prove she has the right. I believe this attitude is a buffer to seeing Robert’s lack of being.
And then there is the question of his teaching. I would question that too but that is a subject for another post.
So, Critical Mass made a few observations about how Robert deals with money. His observations are a part of the whole picture. If they are not true then deny them. If they are true then acknowledge them. It is time to look and see if Robert’s actions reflect the being we attribute to him.
Hey, no problem. I probably wasn’t paying enough attention to all your posts on the subject. My own connection (so far) to Nisargadatta is just that my wife reads me passages sometimes that she likes. I passed that one along for what it’s worth because the way he speaks about mind activity rang true for me. For the record I am not a devotee of any kind at this point, to anything, so I hope you understand I was not trying to convince you one way or the other.
One way to think of it – we give our money freely from our hearts, not as payment, but as a true donation (albeit required). That is a separate issue from how it is received and what happens after it is given, and does not preclude the responsiblility of overview. Any Religious organization (since you consider FoF to be so) has overview of its finances by the members.
Think about it another way – we pay our taxes willy nilly, it doesn’t matter what our attitude is to that. At the same time, it behooves us to be curious, as Old Fish terms it, about what is done with our tax money, and to try, in however small a way, to help our country (read school) to be the noble entity that we would hope for. If we receive information that opens the possibility that our leaders might be hopeless fools, or corrupt con artists, it is our responsibility to investigate and if in our best judgement we find it to be true, to try to remove them from office. It’s just common sense.
The occasional, irrational outbursts from these nasty people is mind boggling.
They represent their peeps so outrageously and horribly.
Of course it’s been said before, but it’s hilariously pathetic that they would actually think that a prospective student would take a look at their mindless nastiness and sign on up for their brand of paradise.
Further, as has been said several times in various ways, it will forever remain a mystery as to why they even bother to participate here. They can’t resist and I guess most of us don’t really mind. Still, it’s a bid odd.
They don’t be lookin’ like anything close to conscious thingamabobs through their fanatical posts.
They do, however, seem to be bursting at the gills to communicate, which is a good sign, especially from members of a group which encourages a lack of self-expression.
At this point, my best guess is that they’re extremely close to seeing the truth about their school and that the anger is pointed toward the participants of this open discussion rather than to the real instigator of the rage.
Who Knows, you’re awesome.
My real face? Well, I can’t upload the picture here, but Janna is my real name… You probably know my face, don’t you.
Amsterdam, hm-m-m… Well, what was I doing there? Well, let me think… I was doing mushrooms, hash, pot, acid, coke… Brownies too… Lots of drinking… Didn’t do heroin though… Oh yes, I also attended FOF meetings when I was sober… ;)
Since I can’t see your face here I can’t tell whether I like it or not. I have a feeling you are one of my Russian friends, I think I even know which one, I do… But it really doesn’t matter.
As long as you are not negative at all! It’s the style. I love your aggressive style.
Can I ask you one thing (I’ll borrow your aggressive style if you don’t mind)
- WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING HERE ON THIS BLOG??? And where is YOUR real name, you brave chickenshit?
I haven’t followed the blog real closely over the past couple of months, and just wondering if there’s been any discussion about the possibility that Robert has AIDS. Is anyone concerned about it? Not concerned? Don’t care?
I was having a discussion with some friends that other day and we were talking about the liklihood of him transmitting the disease to his entourage and to the women they sleep with (they say, “if he hasn’t already”). They were speculating that he’s been able to keep the symptoms “under control” much the way others have done with the special “cocktails” over the years, but that he’s not practicing safe sex and can still transmit the disease.
But does he actually have AIDS, or is that just speculation? And even if it is just speculation, isn’t a reasonable issue about which to speculate given the amount of sex he’s apparently having with his male followers?
Are people going to respond with, “Stop the feminine dominance. Do you want to work or not? This is all a non-issue. He can have as much sex as he wants, and if people get hurt by it, that is the will of the angels”?
Or is there some genuine concern over this issue? I’d like to hear more about this — whether it’s the peanut gallerly offering their justifications, or others who know more about “the situation” and would like to share what they know.
Men, women of the Fellowship: Do you care about your physical health? Let’s (for a moment) forget about your mental health and deal with that question.
Thank you for posting! Please don’t let the grumpy little Fellowship of Friends trolls who periodically rear their ugly heads get to you. Who Knows who’ll pop up next! Your voice and Purchasing Awakening’s are greatly appreciated. In time, even the grumpy little trolls can be appreciated for the service they provide…an entertaining distraction. Like that game at Chuckie Cheese’s with the trolls that pop up out of their little troll holes…then you bonk one with your mallet and they drop back down into their little troll hole… and then another one wearing a different little hat pops up out of his little troll hole over there…and you bonk ‘em…and you have fun getting out some aggression safely without harming anyone!
I will support you in your claim about the cash payments going to the Fellowship ‘boys’. It happened to me once. Back in the mid-80’s, I was invited to join others and travel with Mr. Robert Burton in his entourage. At the time, I was on salary, living at the Academy, and ‘intimately interacting’ with Robert. Making $200 of salary per month, I had no money of my own saved up for such a trip. (Let’s not forget that getting invited to live rent free at the Academy was like getting a raise, too.)
I don’t know if this is still the case, but sometimes these all expense paid trips to Europe were bestowed as a reward to hard working salaried individuals at Renaissance as a last minute surprise before Robert left. Presumably this was to inspire salaried followers to continue making lunatic efforts or others to like myself to get a little ‘closer’ to him. Sometimes people that Robert didn’t have sex with (like women) would be asked to go, although my impression was they were always in the minority, which goes without saying.
Just after we visited a particular center in Europe, I was handed $1500 cash in the currency of the country where the center was located. I was told by his secretary ‘du jour’ the money was a ‘gift’ from Robert Burton. Needless to say, I didn’t ask any questions. This enabled me to travel for the rest of the trip which lasted about seven weeks. Up to that point we had traveled as a tight group, and there was no stop over to convert that much cash into the local currency. It came from the teaching donations that were ‘gleaned’ from that center. So while Robert Burton travels Europe, he’s also skimming cash from the centers, having a gay ole’ time, buying stuff, eating, drinking, and paying off his dressed up sex slaves.
This is the conscious life Mr. Robert Burton has carved out for himself. What a deal! He spends boatloads of his followers’ money now, paying others to cater to his basic needs, as well as his every perverted whim, and his followers all agree to be paid back after death…? I agree with Old Fish In The Sea and Sharon, the fourth way is the way of the householder, which involves exercising common sense. (Let that be a lesson to you Mr Goodwin.)
Credit card debt is Allah’s way of saying that you lack common sense or you need better health insurance.
Many people here are talking about joining another group.
A quiet mind is all that is necessary. There is no need to join anything. If there is support to help in understanding that this is all that is needed, then I think joining a support group would be beneficial for some people.
After the mind settles down, then all kinds of new information pours in. That’s where inspiration comes from.
It takes a quiet mind to access information from higher sources. I really think that it’s unnecessary to call it something other than what it is. Silence is the key to higher understanding, because without it, all we are is a bunch of I’s. Information from the Source (or God) can only be received if ones cup is empty.
I`m not in the Fellowship any more, but from my point of view, Joe Rogan is totally wrong,
to express negative emotions is weakness.
negative emotions are not usefull, are not noble, hurts others and oneself.
I agree with to said the things as we think, but is not necesary to express negativity. it is fine to said our thinking but to express negativity is a very different thing.
I just stumbled on this and found myself tumbling down the hill past Jack & Jill; enjoy, again, I know we did then…
403 Grassroots Protester
Many of us inside the Fellowship of Friends are wondering these days, “What can I do?” There’s plenty we can do. The following is a long list (although not a comprehensive list) of the numerous ways we can protest what’s happening in the Fellowship of Friends:
• When Robert Burton asks you to have sex, say “No.”
• Express your thoughts out loud.
• Believe the ‘I’s.
• Express doubts about the Fellowship’s ideas.
• Express doubts about the Fellowship of Friends.
• Express doubts about Robert Burton.
• Tell people that leaving the Fellowship does not invalidate everything about their time in the Fellowship.
• Tell people that you’ve heard there is a beautiful, spiritual, rewarding existence after you leave the Fellowship of Friends.
• Tell people that the Gods still work with them when they leave the Fellowship of Friends.
• Tell people that the Gods worked with them before they joined the Fellowship, during their time in the Fellowship, and after they leave the Fellowship.
• Tell people that the Gods work with people outside of the Fellowship (blasphemy, isn’t it?)
• Tell people that Robert Burton is merely a pawn of the Gods.
• Help people protect themselves from Robert Burton and the negative consequences of remaining in the Fellowship.
• Criticize Robert Burton.
• Sneak into the Theatron for Journey Forth by Day. Don’t pay.
• Carry a bottle of wine into the theatron and enjoy it.
• Leave the Fellowship.
• Before you leave, encourage a friend to leave the Fellowship.
• Dismiss any notion that protesting is “the wrong triad.”
• Dismiss any notion that encouraging someone to leave is “the wrong triad.”
• “Photograph” people for Fellowship-ese.
• “Photograph” people for using the word “photograph.”
• While driving, do everything you can to look for something interesting in the present WITHOUT thinking about the so-called lower-self, the sequence, bible keys, or anything remotely connected to Robert Burton. Try to find something interesting in the present because it is as natural as breathing to look for something interesting in the present, and because it is what you want to do, and because it makes you feel good, and because it brings you in touch with your inner nature, and with God.
• If someone you barely know tries kissing you square on the lips, don’t let them.
• Damn it, think for yourself.
• Express negativity, argue with one another, and don’t apologize.
• When Robert asks you to have sex, say “No.”
• Go on a 5-day fast.
• Examine your conscience without feeling guilty that you are having “morality ‘I’s.”
• Ask yourself, “What in heaven’s name am I doing here?” Ask it out loud, but with a smile, and ask it so that many people can hear you.
• Question authority.
• Listen to someone who is “expressing negativity” about Robert Burton. Listen to them closely.
• When you are at the table, please DO “share funny stories that are true, such as humorous incidents that have actually happened.” (In case you didn’t know, we’ve been asked not to.)
• Talk with your hands.
• Smile so that your teeth show. (In case you didn’t know, we’ve been asked not to.)
• When someone describes a “confirmation from Influence C of the significance of the Thirty Imperishable Work ‘I’s,” please dismiss it with a hearty laugh.
• Drive 5 mph over the speed limit on the property, and laugh at people who scold you.
• Park in the wrong place.
• When someone asks you for money at a Potage brunch, smile and say “no” so that people sitting at the nearby tables can hear you.
• Sign up for a trip to Egypt, but don’t pay for it.
• Open your windows and play a rock song full-blast on your car stereo.
• When Robert asks you to have sex, say “No.”
• Pull prospective students aside and ask them if they are insane.
• Don’t eat European style (even if you’re European).
• Sit on the Ming furniture, if you can find any that hasn’t already been sold at a loss.
• Grab a plate of food for your wife or girlfriend at a reception.
• Hold hands with your girlfriend or boyfriend while walking down from the road from Apollo D’oro.
• Smooch with your girlfriend in broad daylight.
• Smooch with your boyfriend in broad daylight.
• When Robert asks you to have sex, say “No.”
• Don’t wear a tie to a meeting or reception.
• Wear a very short skirt, or wear pants.
• If you see anyone in Robert Burton’s entourage, talk to them about it.
• Create an anonymous hotmail.com account, and send your thoughts to the young men in Robert Burton’s entourage.
• Create an anonymous hotmail.com account, and send your thoughts to several people on the FOF distribution list.
• Talk openly about books that discuss uncomfortable and unwelcome topics.
• Talk openly on topics that are not welcome.
• Make people feel uncomfortable.
• Want people around you to feel good.
• Don’t believe anyone who tells you there’s something wrong with feeling good.
• Use the word, “yeah.”
• Use the word, “nope.”
• When Robert asks you to have sex, say “Nope.”
• Recognize that being honest and true to yourself is not “negativity.”
• See that “negativity” can have positive results for yourself and others if you don’t inner consider it.
• “Photograph” others for using the work language way too often. Ask them to express their ideas in their own words.
• Direct a performance of a Shakespeare play at your home in Oregon House.
• Invite Robert and Asaf to it. And Ni_k. And G_r_rd.
• Laugh at the sequence.
• When Robert asks you to have sex, say “No.”
• Express compassion for anyone who is having a hard time with all of this. Don’t photograph them for self-pity.
• Don’t dismiss depression as a sign of weakness — see it as a sign of being alive and stuck in a dysfunctional group called the Fellowship of Friends.
• See anger and resentment as a sign of being alive and in the Fellowship. When someone expresses it, ask them what’s wrong. Ask them what you can do to help.
• Tell people that the Fellowship is dysfunctional.
• Tell people sincerely that Robert Burton has a serious mental illness, and that he’s delusional.
• Tell people that you were delusional when you trusted Robert Burton.
• Do any or all of the above, but invent some of your own protests.
• When Robert Burton asks you to have sex, say “No.”
And to define another’s subjective experience with a certain set of external circumstances flowing through their ‘certain set of internal set of circumstances’, thus creating an ‘expression’ as “negative” and “negative” as “weakness” is what Hans?
I’ am pretty fed up with the Fellowship of Friends shallow treatment of “negative emotions”, which to me are more real than what you guys called (and still call) positive emotions; particularly since it’s the ‘negative ones’ that reveal where the work is; and yes, not to forget about those positive types that buffer negativity from others with smiles and laughter; therein the laugh is also a cry… so, what’s the point here Hans?
Categorizing emotions like Robert Burton does, is getting you nowhere and brings about a smugness that’s actually wrong work of centers; for what’s behind every emotion is what counts, not the obvious-ness of the ‘expression’ itself… It’s high spiritual ignorance to take things at face value, this is what Robert Burton has taught you guys, similar to his practicing smiling in the mirror…
Break the mirror and stop sounding like Peter Ingle or Hans, take your pick.
Dear Bass, I think what you are doing is very realistic and interesting and compassionate. Small steps are good. I may not be in complete agreement with you about all the -whatever-, but, boy— I respect how you are working thru things.
——————–
Now, this is something I want to post and this is not to you, Bass, except it is in a way, because it is to all of us. From Jack Handey:
“I think the mistake a lot of us make is thinking the state-appointed psychiatrist is our “FRIEND.”
“I was doing mushrooms, hash, pot, acid, coke… Brownies too… Lots of drinking… Didn’t do heroin though… Oh yes, I also attended FOF meetings when I was sober… ;)”
____________________________________
Wow, Janna, I cannot believe the audacity; how could you attend the meeting ’sober’? Attending ’sober’, that’s probably what alerted them to your turning back into a ‘person’.
No heroin? Hummmm… I’m glad you didn’t, I like those birds, although I am partial to Flamingos…
And coke? Why not pepsi; I mean, live a little girl.
_______________________________________
You said that your teacher did not mention about writing on the blog. And by this you feel free to express yourself in your way here on the blog.
TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT
Well as a fellow human – I have to tell you that if you want to evolve in a what you think to be a school you have to take it serious, otherwise you are wasting your time and better leave it.
100%
Than you will be sincere and that is the only solid basis to grow from. If you stay – do it for a 100% – if you leave and go your own path than also do it for 100%.
A PART IN YOU
I am sure that there is a part in you that knows that Robert Burton doesn’t appreciate what you are writing down here on the blog. But still you write, and condemn people who see it in a way as their 3th line of work to give warning to searching souls out there who are interest in the 4th way.
ASK YOUR TEACHER WHEN IN DOUBT
So, it would be good to ask your teacher or someone who is considered an ‘older student’ what he thinks about it.
YOU CAN HAVE THE LAST WORD
Me for my part will allow you the last word in this dialog. Because I said all there is to be said to you. You first must become ‘clean’ with your ‘school’ before you will be able to speak in their defence.
Elena, thank you for your remarks at 17/140. IMO they show transformation, understanding, real goodness. And Old Fish in the sea, at 17/174, idem ditto.
——————–
Life Person, I think you are right in what you say at 17/145, down to every single word. I have attempted to answer a difficult question by referring to ISOTM. You have tried to put this answer in a proper scale, arguing that although the answer isn’t necessarily wrong in itself, it just may not be too useful for fof-members who have been brainwashed for years with iron propaganda veiled behind velvet O.-quotes.
On an aside, let me say here how that post 17/108 originated, because it explains why I focused on O. I was thinking, not without some resentment, how awful it is that fof dogma relied for so long on cherry-picking ’suitable’ quotes from O’s works and pushing them to extremes; I said to myself: ‘it just can’t be that O. would only have spoken about the priceless value of schools and about giving up will and other such things, and not have given any defenses against people who are likely to misuse that; it’s just not fair, it’s not like O; there must be an answer to this in his books.’ And the very moment I thought that, the answer (or better said, the fragment of understanding at the root of the answer) popped in my mind, which was afterwards formulated in words at 17/108. (And it’s been almost 5 years since I last read ISOTM.) Here’s another of these defenses [just between you and me :) and not addressed to current-fofers], which by the way also vindicates your eulogy of self-trust:
“Above all, avoid those towers built in order to preserve the mysteries and to make an ascent to Heaven by stone stairways. And remember that as soon as men build such a tower they begin to dispute about the summit. The Path is in yourself, and Truth is in yourself and Mystery is in yourself. ” (Symbolism of the Tarot)
As for bewaring of extremes:
“Q. Is the full realization that we cannot ‘do’ anything already a long step on the way to ‘doing’?
A. Sometimes the step is too long, because Every Idea Prolonged Too Far Becomes Its Own Opposite. So if you persuade yourself too seriously that you can do nothing, you will find that you really can do nothing. It is a question of relativity. As I said, not being able to ‘do’ refers to people without any possibility of school-work. ” (The Fourth Way)
——————————-
A former student, thank you for your comments at 17/152.
Here’s a toast – to you and all sincere seekers of truth on this blog:
“The real community of man, in the midst of all the self-contradictory simulacra of community, is the community of those who seek the truth, of the potential knowers, that is, in principle, of all men to the extent they desire to know. But in fact this includes only a few, the true friends, as Plato was to Aristotle at the very moment they were disagreeing about the nature of the good. Their common concern for the good linked them; their disagreement about it proved they needed one another to understand it. They were absolutely one soul as they looked at the problem. This, according to Plato, is the only real friendship, the only real common good.” (Allan Bloom)
I appreciate the little thread that has developed over Fourth Way into Advaita. I don’t have any opposite “I’s” to offer about this small discussion. I only know where I am at now and what seems to be helping me and my Friends. I remember how Mr. O. would describe why one would make efforts to wake up, either by being repelled by who one is, or attracted to what one could become. Taken on the level of waking up to the imaginary aspects of the School, the Teacher, etc…, the blog provides the repellant, Advaita the solution (for me, but maybe for others, too?).
So, my current approach to my fellow students is to offer them Advaita in the context of touching that part of them that is truly hungry for pure undiluted Consciousness, particularly if they are unwilling to look at the Blog. My own understanding jumped exponentially from reading Nisargadatta. After all, N. pointedly reveals what Walt, Rumi, Hafiz, the Upanishads, etc… point to, don’t you think? And what a relief! So opening that door need not be a shocking revelation, even to a firm Fellowshipper. N. affirms yet corrects RB, showing the shallowness of many of our untested yet silently absorbed myths and gobbledy gook. Then maybe, just maybe, some of my Friends who are not yet crystallized in RB’s brand of “Fourth Way” Bhakti can find a way out of this big misunderstanding and even be ready to see RB’s (shadow) Lower Self Blog side for what it is? If they are open to it? The point more is how to get free of the limitations of the FOF mentality while still immersed in it.
Actually understanding Advaita could be another process entirely. I realize that. The transition is definitely an individual process. At first I did the “mapping” thing of trying to align N.’s words to Fourth Way concepts and understandings I already had. Now, I understand that to have been a stage in absorption. I am currently able to read N. without trying to “map”. This also is a relief. Surely there is more to come? How can it not be so? I freely admit myself to be, once again, a beginner.
Friends, I understand my time within the FOF to be limited, I know that, so I consider these efforts of mine to be my loving, parting shots to dear Friends. My goodbye kisses. I understand the Fear, the Love and the Misinformation that keeps them in their places here. I would do what I can, while I can. That is all.
Love,
Bass
Bass, I believe you are on the right track. Our understanding is constantly changing.Actually , we do not really have a choice in that so it’s better not to resist.You will take what was useful from FOf as we all do and leave behind what was limiting.And everyone has to do it in their own sweet time.
Bass, funny how I did exactly the same first – tried to connect 4th way and N. (and other non-dual authors) words, and after a while system just “got abandoned” all by itself. As if one is trying to hold on to old familiar ropes before it’s obvious that one doesn’t need them anymore and able to simply let go…
I am glad you’re talking about these ideas to your friends.
Good luck to you!
Dear A former student,
you wrote;
“This is my “consciousness’” and One I am happy with. I am a part , containing parts, that is a part of a larger whole.”
“We are accustomed to thinking of bodies as having consciousness whereas it is consciousness which has bodies” – Nisargadatta
The notion of being someone who owns consciousness is at the root of RB’s teaching and the root cause of much that is false in RB and consequently false in the FOF. It is the dead end that many eventually encounter and a simple explanation as to why no one in FOF actually awakens.
“I” can “do” tricky things with awareness until the cows come home, the abiding result though will always be merely that the cows make it home.
Surely, believing we are a part when we are in fact the whole is what keeps us apart ?
I am that not the brightest bulb in the package. So, I will continue with Gurdjieff until I too “grasp the essense” of the 4th way.
I had a health problem once and instead of going to the doctor (broke), I went to a “esoteric book shop” for direction.
Thumbing through some “health” books I found “Ayurveda”. I purchased the book and began studying “Ayurveda”. I found very interesting knowledge about Hindu teachings. They explained in English as much as possible but kept the essential Sanskrit words I guess to not delude the mind.
I also took a course in “Ayurveda” for the sole purpose of eventually growing medicinal herbs. As I read “Ayurveda” I also connected in my “mind” the interconnectedness of the Fourth Way with the spiritual aspects of Hindu philosophy.
I finally decided that I would keep the spiritual aspects of the Fourth Way and the material healing aspects of “Ayurveda”
I guess it’s “different strokes for different folks”.
on 01 Aug 2007 at 5:15 pm
170 Janna wrote
“So process is a mental concept, very useful in our lives, but nevertheless – imaginary, a mind activity so to speak.
In the immediacy on the Now there is no process.
There is no time either – this is another (useful) mind concept, or another (useful) illusion.”
I am apparantly not being heard well, need I be clearer?
If this serves you well that is fine. I suggest you learn to moderate your language. I do not accept you as a man #7 with objective knowledge. I find it offensive that you question my right to have my own understanding.
on 01 Aug 2007 at 1:10 am1
77 Joseph G wrote
“#164 a former student
Hey, no problem. I probably wasn’t paying enough attention to all your posts on the subject.”
And I was simply in the midst of a group of I’s reacting to post’s about non-duality. But truthfully I don’t even enjoy reading the stuff. There is more in the sonnets or Walt Whitman for me than in non-dualism.
192 Bass Ackwards
“Actually understanding Advaita could be another process entirely. I realize that. The transition is definitely an individual process. At first I did the “mapping” thing of trying to align N.’s words to Fourth Way concepts and understandings I already had. Now, I understand that to have been a stage in absorption. I am currently able to read N. without trying to “map”. This also is a relief. Surely there is more to come? How can it not be so? I freely admit myself to be, once again, a beginner.”
My prejudice, to me this makes sense. As an exercise remove the concepts of time and process from this post and see what is left.
196 Ryan O’Poo wrote
“The notion of being someone who owns consciousness is at the root of RB’s teaching and the root cause of much that is false in RB and consequently false in the FOF. It is the dead end that many eventually encounter and a simple explanation as to why no one in FOF actually awakens.”
I am apparantly not being heard well, need I be clearer?
If this serves you well that is fine. I suggest you learn to moderate your language. I do not accept you as a man #7 with objective knowledge. I find it offensive that you question my right to have my own understanding.
Ryan I think this is poorly written. An edited form
“I think the notion of being someone who owns consciousness is at the root of how Fellowship members interprett RB’s teaching. I believe it is the root cause of much that is false in RB and consequently false in the FOF. I see it as the dead end that many eventually encounter and a simple explanation as to why no one in FOF actually awakens.”
If you observe the difference. The changed language takes ownership and yet does not present the opinion as fact. Basically changing the post from a lie to the truth.
I may refain from addressing this subject further ( or not) because to me it makes no sense. Time, space, matter, relationship all exist and I am happy with that.
The law of 7 and law of three exist for me and have meaning for me.
If you spent however many years in The Fellowship and failed to learn the basic’s of world creation and maintenance it is just one more example of what happens when ideas like self remembering are taken out of context.
Gurdjieff wrote that the Enneagram was a universal symbol and that if two individuals from different traditions even if they did not speak the same language compared their understanding of the enneagram and proceeses they would realize whose knowledge was greater.
Unfortunatly thus far my experience of Former and currant Fellowship members in relation to understanding Laws and Processesis is a big HUH? DUH? Wha?
To me Non-dualism which as Janna presents it, as it appears in quotes is a dead end a denial of process and time and for me useless material.
A heavily edited but still substantial interprettation of Walt Whitman’s “Song of the Open Road”
I gather those who have been in the Fellowship more recently , my own departure was over 25 years ago , my have a conditioned response. I have been blessed it seems with not being in the fellowship of Friends and have been able to enjoy this from my own understanding.
Song of the open road
AFOOT and light-hearted,
I take to the open road,
Henceforth I ask not good-fortune—
I myself am good fortune;
The earth—that is sufficient;
I do not want the constellations any nearer;
I know they are very well where they are;
I know they suffice for those who belong to them. 10
You road I enter upon and look around! I believe you are not all that is here; 15
I believe that much unseen is also here.
Here the profound lesson of reception, neither preference or denial;
You air that serves me with breath to speak!
You light that wraps me and all things in delicate equable showers!
I think you are latent with unseen existences—you are so dear to me.
From this hour, freedom!
From this hour I ordain myself loos’d of limits and imaginary lines,
Going where I list, my own master, total and absolute, 55
Listening to others, and considering well what they say,
Pausing, searching, receiving, contemplating,
Gently, but with undeniable will, divesting myself of the holds that would hold me.
I inhale great draughts of space;
I am larger, better than I thought;
I did not know I held so much goodness.
Whoever denies me, it shall not trouble me;
Whoever accepts me, he or she shall be blessed, and shall bless me.
Here is the test of wisdom;
Wisdom is not finally tested in schools;
Wisdom cannot be pass’d from one having it, to another not having it;
Wisdom is of the Soul, is not susceptible of proof, is its own proof, 80
Is the certainty of the reality and immortality of things, and the excellence of things;
Something there is in the float of the sight of things that provokes it out of the Soul.
Now I reëxamine philosophies and religions,
They may prove well in lecture-rooms, yet not prove at all under the spacious clouds, and along the landscape and flowing currents. 85
Here is the efflux of the Soul; 95
These yearnings, why are they? These thoughts in the darkness, why are they?
Why are there trees I never walk under, but large and melodious thoughts descend upon me? (I think they hang there winter and summer on those trees, and always drop fruit as I pass;)
The efflux of the Soul is happiness—here is happiness;
I think it pervades the open air, waiting at all times;
Now it flows unto us—we are rightly charged.
Allons! whoever you are, come travel with me! 115
Traveling with me, you find what never tires.
The earth never tires;
The earth is rude, silent, incomprehensible at first—Nature is rude and incomprehensible at first;
Be not discouraged—keep on—there are divine things, well envelop’d;
I swear to you there are divine things more beautiful than words can tell. 120
Allons! we must not stop here!
However sweet these laid-up stores—however convenient this dwelling, we cannot remain here;
I and mine do not convince by arguments, similes, rhymes;
We convince by our presence. 140
Listen! I will be honest with you;
I do not offer the old smooth prizes, but offer rough new prizes;
These are the days that must happen to you:
What beckonings of love you receive, you shall only answer with passionate kisses of parting, You shall not allow the hold of those who spread their reach’d hands toward you.
Allons! to that which is endless, as it was beginningless,
To conceive no time, however distant, but what you may reach it and pass it,
To look up or down no road but it stretches and waits for you—
To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
The Soul travels;
The body does not travel as much as the soul; 185
The body has just as great a work as the soul,
All religion, all solid things, arts, governments,
—all that was or is apparent upon this globe or any globe, falls into niches and corners before the procession of Souls along the grand roads of the universe.
Forever alive, forever forward, 190
But I know that they go toward the best—
toward something great.
Allons! whoever you are! come forth! 195
You must not stay sleeping and dallying there in the house,
Allons! out of the dark confinement!
It is useless to protest—I know all, and expose it.
Have the past struggles succeeded?
What has succeeded? yourself? your nation? nature? 215
Now understand me well—It is provided in the essence of things, that from any fruition of success, no matter what, shall come forth something to make a greater struggle necessary.
Allons! the road is before us! 220
It is safe—I have tried it—my own feet have tried it well.
Allons! be not detain’d!
Mon enfant! I give you my hand!
I give you my love, more precious than money,
I give you myself, before preaching or law;
Will you give me yourself? will you come travel with me? 230
To anyone who might be interested in posting to the blog, but who feels they need to participate in the discussion threads about various topics — whether it’s advaita, gurdjieff, burton, or the just “the insanity of it all”:
Although we’re trying to keep the blog “Fellowship-related”, feel free to post away on any topic that seemingly has nothing to do with all of the debate. Non-sequiturs are completely welcome — especially if it’s a personal story about Robert Burton and the Fellowship. Also, if you have a story that you think has already been said many times over, say it anyway. We’ll read it, and it will give all of us a completely different perspective because it came from you and not someone else.
If the debate doesn’t interest you, we encourage you to ignore it, and post away. We can have many threads going at once. In fact, we do have many threads going at once!
Looking forward to hearing from you, whoever you are.
Thanks, Ryan (196), for posting the Nisargadatta quote: “We are accustomed to thinking of bodies as having consciousness whereas it is consciousness which has bodies.” That pretty much says it all. RN
“The notion of being someone who owns consciousness is at the root of RB’s teaching and the root cause of much that is false in RB and consequently false in the FOF. ”
Yes, a defining moment for me was the realization that the part of me that so desperately wanted to “wake up” was the part that had the least chance of doing it, and would forever stand in my own way — the motivations are all wrong, there’s a sub-surface layer of wanting to be admired and special. Most importantly, the very notion of “work” and “struggle” refer to some imaginary “me” in a non-existent future — the antithesis of being in the moment. It took a major psychological smackdown to see this though, dissolving, breaking apart, free-falling with some rather disastrous consequences, but ultimately the crack of the shell that returned me to myself and relative sanity.
Now I just try to take things simply. I am who I am, and try to accept that. The perception that I am a real person sitting here right now is much truer than theories that “I am not real.” I feel real and the fact of my body and feelings trumps any arguments to the contrary. If this upsets anyone’s belief systems, sorry, but I’m not sorry. And to think I had to go through years of being in a “school” then come out the other end to reach this rather sane point. Yikes!
I have no idea if Robert has AIDS. I have heard that in Yuba County there is a cluster of people who are HIV positive in the Oregon House area. I would recommend all sexually active persons get tested and insist their partners get tested. You can get a free anonymous test in various locations. Sierra College is one. You can probably get more info from Google. Then you can post your results here anonymously. In the meantime, take precautions.
Thanks for your post. I think the attraction for some Followers of the Fellowship to non-duality is like the social phenomena of some people within the Jewish faith being attracted to Buddhism. “JewBu’s” I’ve heard them called. Two ways of being in the world delightfully complimenting each other when one has been immersed for too long in either way.
I find that non-duality is attractive and liberating for its transcendent qualities; it speaks more objectively to our actual state on the scale of the universe: we are dead longer than we are alive! One’s alchemy doesn’t matter on that scale! Our more permanent state is merged into the cosmic ocean…and…for a brief time, we exist as vapor, then a droplet…in the cycle back to the ocean source. The circle or cycle is the perfect symbol for unity or wholeness.
It’s a wonderful sentiment that we are all one spirit interacting with itself. How could we choose to harm another spirit if we were living from spirit? For me, actual experiences of this fact are what I call the fourth state of consciousness. So ultimately, objectively, there is no duality. We are not separate; we are all one as the Absolute is All and Everything.
It sounds a bit like the way of the Yogi to me; the seeker striving to keep his awareness detached from his body and focused solely upon more objective reality or the ‘highest’ truth, transcending the mundane and ever-changing world of the ego and the senses.
You will notice that non-duality ‘irks’ others. Why would non-duality be so polarizing if its intent is to unify? It begs the question, is that a reality you can live day by day in the diverse world of people? Is it the head becoming too detached from the body that inspires Scott to quote Whitman, who “Sings His Body Electric”?
IMO for a person struggling in the recovery process from addiction, those with a lack of healthy self-respect or lack of healthy ego boundaries, the transcendent qualities and dissolution of ‘self’ inherent in non-duality would seem frightening and problematic, because that transcendence is what they long for in the drug of choice. The drug provides a short cut to nirvana where the self and time doesn’t exist. In their drug induced ‘stupor’ they feel merged in that great cosmic ocean, more than likely in compensation for what they lacked in their family experience. And since they also lack the being to create that state for themselves independent of the drug, the drug wears off and paradise is lost. Chasing the feeling of transcendence does great damage in the addict’s life and cheats them of being in the present. They are taught to be wary of it. That’s why in the stages of recovery, it is important for addicts to get grounded in their bodies and to learn self-respect through work on empowering themselves day by day.
So IMO the philosophy of non-duality would be a conflict for someone completing the 12 step process of recovery.
Anyway, I enjoy the discussion. More of you would be appreciated.
Innernaut wrote in #206: “Now I just try to take things simply. I am who I am, and try to accept that.”
Something else related to this is that it’s hard to accept “where we are” and “what we are doing” at any given moment, as well as “who were are” There’s this constant, nagging thought that, “Perhaps I should be somewhere else, doing something else. Maybe I shouldn’t be here.”
We’re constantly second-guessing ourselves… and this fits right in to the idea of the “lower self” that is being promoted so heavily in the FoF, and many other related concepts such as the king of clubs and so on — an idea that we should “watch out” for anything we’re thinking, feeling, or doing.
But it’s precisely this second-guessing that keeps us from being in the present, enjoying our lives, and appreciating what we are experiencing right now.
“For all the day our eyes view things unrespected.”
Miles Barth, (who was called Miles “Brighton” as a member of the Fellowship over 20 years ago), talked about this idea in one of the last meetings that he led. He said as long as we believe that we “should” be somewhere else, we can’t be present. He said that it’s one of the most important ideas to remember as long as we have a goal to be present.
Now, having said that, it could very well be that “where we are” is running full-speed for the exit. We can be present to that as well, not doubt it, not disbelieve it, not fear it.
“Something else related to this is that it’s hard to accept “where we are” and “what we are doing” at any given moment, as well as “who were are” There’s this constant, nagging thought that, “Perhaps I should be somewhere else, doing something else. Maybe I shouldn’t be here.””
I think it was John Lennon that said, “Life is what happens when we’re making other plans.”
Hello Friends.
Long before I discovered the teachings of G, I was visiting a friend who I respected very much partly due to his being a very knowledgeable old jewish man who was the head of Unicef for his corner of the world.
On his wall there was a picture of a man which impressed me very much because of the expression in the eyes which to me seemed to have great compassion. Here I thought at the time is someone who has suffered deeply and knows about suffering, his eyes seemed to shine with deep compassion and understanding.
I wondered who it could be? that my friend who I respected very highly, respected so much as to have his picture on his wall, but didnt get round to asking him.
I travelled further and lost contact with my friend.
Ten years passed……then one day I opened a book by a man called Gurdjieff and there was that man from so long ago I could have kicked myself when I thought how it might have been possible to have discovered him much earlier. Cest la vie!
However the Fellowship of Friends I found had very little to do with this mans teaching and I found out far more about his REAL teaching before joining it and after leaving it.
Gurdjieff said
“the hardest trial in life is the inability to alleviate the sufferings of others. What makes it worse is that it never serves a usefull purpose – not being experienced for a proper aim “.
One of his books is entitled “Life is real only then when I am.”
Ltya. Cy.
Like so much of the ‘Mad Hatter’ going on’s at ISIS Robert Burton has not been forced by law (as the obvious occult sexual predator he his) to have such tests made for the lawful interests of the infra-sexed church, the Fellowship of Friends)…
Years ago someone asked Robert Burton ~ “Robert do you have AIDS?”
Robert Earl Burton, the second conscious Christ, answered ~
“If I do, I don’t want to know.”
_________________________
According to Han’s ‘idea’ of not expressing negativity, Robert Burton need not do anything he doesn’t want to do, especially if it means creating negative responses from a conscious being or those wing-seekers whose sex centers are glued thereon…
I actually did hear that Robert was HIV positive but both people that told me are now deceased. And I don’t think hearing it second hand is enough to go spreading the word around. However, if I were in the Fellowship I would certainly go get tested.
Yes, the bistro (La Cucina) burnt down, no subterfuge there, it was probably caused by a cappuccino machine. The FOF received the insurance money, which just got swallowed up. Then 2006 saw the bistro fundraising. I can’t remember how much money was raised, but it was substantial, and a student was on salary specifically for the fundraising, and now she is fundraising for Robert’s personal funds. But then the FOF failed to meet the milestones dictated by the county, so the county started playing hardball and the FOF had to pay a $35000 fine. So the bistro project was abandoned.
I remember Robert announcing that Asaf was going to stay at Isis to teach and host events when Robert went to Egypt in Fall 2006. Asaf was beaming proudly. Then Robert announced that the reason Asaf was staying on at Isis was because the FOF needed to raise the extra funds for the county fine, and of course the events bring in money. You should have seen Asaf’s face.
So the theatron wasn’t usable. Now there are further fundraisers for a replacement stage for the theatron, one that will meet county standards. The proposed ballet is going to be held at the tennis courts next to the burnt out bistro instead. The FOF will surely cut corners with the legal requirements, so the county may as well have someone on hand for the first night of the tennis court ballet—there could be good money in it for the county. There was a recent email from Wayne Mott, an attempt at glasnost, that selectively detailed the history of the theatron project, reproduced below:-
(c) Wayne Mott 2007
After many years of work by a dedicated team of experts and non-experts alike, the Theatron has re-entered the construction phase that will bring it to its completion. The following is a short story of that process.
Back in January of 2005 we received a Conditional Use Permit from Yuba County for our Theatron. Since then we have been going through a process, stated simply, of creating a set of plans, having them approved and inspecting/testing the existing structure. The completion of this process would then allow us to continue with construction and finish what we had started in 2001.
In April of 2005 we submitted our first and admittedly not very complete set of plans. We followed that with a more complete set, Revision 1, by the end of May that same year. This was really the beginning of a learning process that kept us scrambling for the next couple of years. With the help of building code analysts we learned about how to deal with the many elements that would help us finish the project.
By February 2006 we were ready with Revision 2 of the plans, more or less. We were sure that there would be a lot more work to do but we began to hire the necessary help. We hired an engineer to design the waste system for the bathrooms. We then hired the same lighting engineer that did the design for the Sleep Train Amphitheater in Marysville with all its emergency lighting and backup systems, and also a fire system engineer for the hydrants and under stage sprinkler system. All of this was done to prepare Revision 3 which we submitted on June 30th 2006.
Our code analysts came and went as well as the staff at the Yuba County Community Development Department. As most of the staff that we had worked with moved on to neighboring counties we hired the person that we had worked with at the building department as our last code analyst. He knew the project well and was a great help in finishing off the last details.
After a few of weeks of review and minor corrections we finally received our approved set of plans, 50 pages of architectural, engineering, electrical, fire, handicapped access, site plans, indexes, etc… And in another week we had our building permit.
This allowed us to move to the next phase in the process. We had to verify that what was built was the same as what was indicated on the approved set of plans. After having our engineers submit an inspection proposal to the county, we began a program of testing. The independent testing company examined a random sampling of exposed footings and soil conditions. They also used a radar scanning technique and core drilling of the walls and footings to verify the reinforcing steel. After this was done a report from the independent testing company and our engineers was sent to and approved by the Yuba County Building Department. That brings us to where we are now.
The first part of the new construction will be to rebuild the stage in a waterproofed concrete which will then have a wooden surface constructed on top. The stage was the only major part of what we had constructed which was open to question. The weathering was already beginning to show on the existing wood structure. It was designed before the project took on the dimension that it has today. We had the possibility of re-building parts of the stage that needed replacing with a different kind of wood but decided unanimously that a concrete structure was more in keeping with the rest of the Theatron and would better serve future generations.
The orgies, with viagra, go back four or five years ago at least. Robert was very grateful to C Influence that they had given him three Russians who would have sex with him every Sunday evening. Robert said that it was the highlight of his week, and he looked forward to it all week.
When Adriana D died suddenly at the Mad Hatter, Robert commented that she had been dancing to jazz, “which we have been told not to do, so C Influence cut her down just like that.”
When Adriana D died suddenly at the Mad Hatter, Robert commented that she had been dancing to jazz, “which we have been told not to do, so C Influence cut her down just like that.”
This is exactly like the claim that Raymond Kennedy’s death in 1980 was caused by his disobeying the swimming exercise. Deliberate fear induction to increase obedience.
“When Adriana D died suddenly at the Mad Hatter, Robert commented that she had been dancing to jazz, “which we have been told not to do, so C Influence cut her down just like that.””
Thanks 2b and Innernaut – I really enjoyed your posts…
On a different note (Critical Mass) – being Russian myself it slightly saddens me to see which role Russians played in the school… A “special” role. Most Robert’s sex toys are Russians.
Oh well. But, hey, if you ask an average American around here what do they know about Russians they’ll likely mention mail-order brides, Russian mafia, Brighton Beach and Russian prostitutes… It is what it is…
The latest shocking changes to the Fellowship of Friends website — part of the latest public relations efforts. The following is from the FAQ page:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Spiritual teachings have taught followers to “be in the moment” and to “be present” from the dawn of history. What is different about your approach? Why should I join the Fellowship of Friends?
If you don’t join the Fellowship of Friends, you will languish in the fires of hell throughout all eternity, and lose all possibilities of gaining your immortal soul if you pass up this one opportunity that you are being offered right now. In all of the vast world, the Fellowship of Friends is the only way for you to avoid damnation. Don’t wait too long to make your decision.
What is that opportunity? Can you describe it?
In the Fellowship of Friends, you have the opportunity give a large portion of your money to Robert Burton to suit his whims, and to feed his selfish desires. He will use the money to travel the world over while “servicing” his entourage of young men. You too can be one of those men — if Robert Burton chooses you to be one, and if you agree to it. If not, you will have the satisfaction of knowing your money is going to a good cause — helping Robert Burton experience the pleasure that he seeks, and helping him maintain control over his followers, you included.
So, how much money do I need to pay as a member of the Fellowship of Friends?
Remember that payment is a principle. You cannot get something for nothing. And the friction you receive from paying more than you can reasonably afford is something you can use for your inner work.
But that doesn’t answer my question. How much money have you determined is enough friction?
Ok, ok. To join, one pays a tithe of 10% of your gross monthly income. Special donations are also requested — well, actually we don’t “request them”, we require them — to help fund various (ahem) “projects” at Isis and abroad. Different payment categories, such as parent with child, unemployed, retired, university student etc., are provided to help accommodate a member’s financial circumstances — in other words, being broke with no retirement nest-egg due to years of contributing to the Fellowship without the help of the appropriate income to pay for those contributions. Because the Fellowship of Friends is recognized by the state and federal governments as a non-profit religious organization, all membership donations are tax deductible in the U.S. This allows the Fellowship of Friends to sponge off the state and federal governments to fund the various (ahem) “projects” mentioned above.
What are those “projects”?
You will learn more later. You see, you must decide… Do you want to work or not?
The project is that I must decide whether I “want to work or not”?
No, that’s not what I meant. I’m basically just evading your question.
Once I join the Fellowship of Friends, can I leave?
Yes, you can leave. But if you leave, you will suffer a fate that is worse than death. You will languish in the fires of hell throughout all eternity, and lose all possibilities of gaining your immortal soul — and the eternal hellfires will be twice as hot for you if you join and then leave… even worse than Adolf Hitler. By the way, just remember that Robert Burton is nothing at all like Adolf Hitler. And there is no “group think” here similar to the Nazi Germany. No comparison whatsoever. We don’t kill people here or start wars. Chill out. Yes, Nazi Germany was very much like a cult that went out of control (see the book, “Morning of the Magicians”), but don’t start comparing us, all right?
What do you mean that “the eternal hellfires will be twice as hot if you join and then leave”?
That’s just how it works.
So all other groups are wrong or mistaken?
We are not making a statement against any other way or group. But let’s face it; they will waste your precious time, and you will languish in the fires of hell throughout all eternity, and lose all possibilities of gaining your immortal soul if you pass up this one opportunity that you are being offered right now to join the Fellowship of Friends, and instead join one of those other groups, and especially if you don’t join any group at all. Because you see, joining is good. Groups are good. Not as good as this group, though. In all of the vast world, the Fellowship of Friends is the only way for you to avoid damnation. Don’t wait too long to make your decision. So rather than say that all other groups are wrong, we would say that you are just a complete idiot if you suggest they are right.
The simplest way, of course, to determine whether a group or discipline is giving you something is to measure the results. Do they give you the opportunity to be exploited for your money and to be sexually abused? Do they focus on ideas connected to feminine dominance such as the development of conscience, critical thinking, and kindness and compassion? Here in the Fellowship, you will avoid such nonsense.
I am glad that you speak about measuring results. I want to understand what I am doing.
This is the only way to work. Practical work on awakening cannot be based on faith. Ideas are presented so that we can pretend that we verify for ourselves what is being said, and so that we can pretend for others that we are awake and working on ourselves. Pretentiousness is very important. Appearing to be conscious to fellow members is the key.
You describe imagination as a negative thing. What about creative imagination? All artists need to visualize in order to create. Is this work opposed to artistic creation?
Any artist or craftsman would agree that creative labor requires concentration, discipline, and dedication to produce something of beauty or utility. The effort to be present only enhances true creative attempts to produce anything of lasting quality and beauty. When we speak about imagination, we are speaking about the mindless chain of thoughts that incessantly occupy space within our internal world — such as the imagination that Robert Burton is not sexually abusing his followers, or the imagination that members of the Fellowship of Friends are the only people on a planet of over 7 billion people who are living righteous lives. We are not even aware of the extent to which this imagination comprises our lives until we begin to make efforts to be present and realize that this is all a sham. Presence is a light that reveals and dispels darkness. Of course, here in the Fellowship of Friends, we don’t really practice these efforts. We just act as though we do.
You speak about making the proper efforts. If you tell me what they are, can I do them myself, or with my friends and colleagues? In other words, can I walk around acting like I’m making efforts by using the work language just as you do in the Fellowship?
Imagination (such as the belief that Robert Burton is not sexually abusing his followers, and that the Fellowship of Friends is the only legitimate spiritual school on the Earth) is a much more serious foe than many of us realize. It is not simply that we tend to dream and like our dreams—there is actually something inside of us that actively resists the effort to be present to one’s own life and realize just how much we are getting screwed by paying our money to the Fellowship of Friends. It is also not a question of acquiring more knowledge. There are texts, both ancient and contemporary, that offer precise information about awakening and how gurus manipulate others for personal power, wealth, and personal gratification and selfish desires. What is lacking is both an understanding of how to use knowledge precisely and the proper environment in which to apply it. One must be shown what to do, and then one must be reminded numerous times — and sometimes those reminders come from old friends who have gone through the same horrifying nonsense.
How will I know when it is time to join?
Right now is always the right time. Spend your money now. Write that check. If you die a half hour before writing that check, you’re screwed. So act now. Keep receipts, though.
But how can I know if your spiritual teacher is enlightened?
By our standards, we’ll know a teacher is awake if he/she doesn’t give a damn what any of us think, and manipulates his followers for his own personal sexual satisfaction and petty desires.
You keep referring to “effort”. What kind of effort do you mean?
The most important efforts are to act like you are making efforts, to speak the work language in front of other students, and to avoid any criticism of Robert Burton.
It all sounds too insane. I just don’t think I can do it.
It is insane. Do not believe anyone who tells you otherwise. However, the more we realize the extent and implications of our sleep, the less we think in these terms. A drowning man who is thrown a lifesaver does not consider the effort of grabbing hold of it as too difficult. He will be glad to have sex with Robert Burton rather than sink to the bottom of the ocean.
Is there a fee to join?
You’ve GOT to be kidding. Of course, there’s a fee to join. I’ve already mentioned that. One pays a tithe of 10% gross monthly income. The membership donation is also presented in a sliding scale, so that newer members are required to pay less than older members until they are able to verify the basic principles of awakening and sleep. We are very nice that way. Special donations are also requested to help fund various (ahem) “projects” at Isis. When all is said and done, you are paying about 25 to 35% of your net salary to the Fellowship.
Are there additional fees?
Yes, there are additional fees. You can pay anwhere from $700 to $1,500 each month to participate. No big deal. The reward is escaping imagination. Imagination is not allowed here.
“IMO for a person struggling in the recovery process from addiction, those with a lack of healthy self-respect or lack of healthy ego boundaries, the transcendent qualities and dissolution of ‘self’ inherent in non-duality would seem frightening and problematic, because that transcendence is what they long for in the drug of choice. The drug provides a short cut to nirvana where the self and time doesn’t exist. In their drug induced ‘stupor’ they feel merged in that great cosmic ocean, more than likely in compensation for what they lacked in their family experience. And since they also lack the being to create that state for themselves independent of the drug, the drug wears off and paradise is lost. Chasing the feeling of transcendence does great damage in the addict’s life and cheats them of being in the present. They are taught to be wary of it. That’s why in the stages of recovery, it is important for addicts to get grounded in their bodies and to learn self-respect through work on empowering themselves day by day.
So IMO the philosophy of non-duality would be a conflict for someone completing the 12 step process of recovery.”
This would be a reason
able if questionable diagnosis if done by a professional in the field. What are your qualifications?
Is there some basis in fact or is this just a full moon head release of energy?
“Many people here are talking about joining another group.
A quiet mind is all that is necessary. There is no need to join anything. If there is support to help in understanding that this is all that is needed, then I think joining a support group would be beneficial for some people.
After the mind settles down, then all kinds of new information pours in. That’s where inspiration comes from.
It takes a quiet mind to access information from higher sources. I really think that it’s unnecessary to call it something other than what it is. Silence is the key to higher understanding, because without it, all we are is a bunch of I’s. Information from the Source (or God) can only be received if ones cup is empty.”
Thank you for your words. That is exactly where I am these days. I just read somewhere (paraphrasing) that activity is really just transportation, but action can only come from the heart.
Thanks for your response. Let’s just say that I am a seasoned professional in the field. You are too, I believe, are you not? We probably have more in common than you realize.
Work with me here. How could a person in recovery complete the steps if there was no ’self’ to be held accountable? How could they count the number of days or years sober if time didn’t exist? ‘Who’ would be powerless from what?
Is not the separation within oneself of healthy from unhealthy parts, behaviors, attitudes, or beliefs the beginning steps on the road to recovery? How could one feel whole if one struggled with a part of oneself that wished more clarity and another part that just wanted to go get wasted?
What kind of response would someone like Ryan receive in a 12 step meeting talking about non-duality? They’d say just what you say, get real, dude, who the fuck do you think you are to talk like that? They’d say, get off your high horse! This is the problem with talking about philosophy. It can get pretty heady and lose touch with the practical side of things, like just getting through each day clean and sober.
The inner conflict associated with non-duality and other ‘transpersonal’ therapies or ‘meditative’ techniques for the person in recovery is well known. I didn’t just sit down at my computer on a full moon and make this shit up for sake of argument. I’d be happy to refer you to some reading on the subject, if you were so inclined or interested.
Although I am no longer in the School, I continue to use the knowledge from it. And also from other B influence things I have studied.
A group may not be necessary, it all depends on your aims and what you want. In fourth way terminology 2nd line helps to reinforce 1st line and vis versa. So with being in a group you will see different parts of your mechanics if you were not in one.
For, me as I slow down in this momemt typing on the keyboard to finish this sentance; the realization is, “Am I here to writing these words”, or am I just being mecanically spinning into this blog in sleep. So, I have an aim to make an effort when I write now to be present. The same goes for reading, we can mechanically read, but what about reading from the higher part of ourselves, the moe present part, when we read from this blog. It does not mean to be reading critical and judging; if mean reading from a sense of comapasssion, external consideration and at the same time trying “B” in that moment.
on 02 Aug 2007 at 4:20 am223 Joseph G
184 wake up little suzy wakeup
One of the things I have been most succesful at, if that is even applicable, of late, is doing nothing. At least for me this is not some cosmic answer because indeed it is often just doing nothing. A lack of energy, motivation etc. But in many cases out of this “nothing” my own thoughts will arise, they may manifest as music, Art, writing or whatever.
In a very real sense the greatest luxury is doing nothing. To be free from the control of external forces to the degree of having choices.
Former student:
“I find it offensive that you question my right to have my own understanding.”
Did I question your right to have your understanding? How do you come up with this conclusion? No, your understanding is all yours, and it totally cool with me. Sorry to offend you. I really mean it. It must be my English that makes it sound … whatever.
I was just trying to have a conversation. To share how I see it. Hoping we can compare, talk, argue may be… I guess we can’t. You seem to perceive it as some kind of personal attack and get into defense mode. No fun! It is not an attack, it’s a friggin blog! Words on screen written by someone you’ve never met… Why take it SO personally?
If my words are that offensive – I am sorry. Again, I mean it.
Wishing you peace,
J
The Void
Surrounding the second and the third chakra is the Void which stands for
the principle of mastery (guru principle) within us. In many spiritual
traditions, this area is the “ocean of illusions” that needs to be crossed
with the help of a spiritual guide. When the Kundalini is awakened and
passes through the Void, this principle of mastery is established within
us. Thus, as Shri Mataji says, in Sahaja Yoga you become your own guru,
your own spiritual guide since you can feel on your fingertips all your
subtle problems and have the power to cure them using your own Kundalini.
Moreover, establishing this center helps us get rid of all our habits, laziness,
gross attachments, and everything that enslaves us in a way or another:
we become our own master. Following false “gurus” who are more
interested in power tricks or your purse can damage very much the
Void area. But after Self Realization, everything can be cured through
the purifying power of the Kundalini in meditation.
From a distance.
In reading some of the recent posts it seems that it might be a good idea to set up a support group beyond the blog and the greater fellowship site.
Being too far away I cant take this initiative, but perhaps some of the brave souls who have left and are still “around” could organise something allong these lines for those who are thinking of leaving or who have recently left, which might minimise the rawness of the experience, that some of us felt upon leaving.
It might also encourage those who are afraid of jumping into what is portrayed as “the void” and give real support in a time of crisis or “kairos”.
It could be very simple just some friends getting together to have a meal, drink tea, chat or simply be there maybe even a couch to sleep on or a place to pitch a tent for a while.
But with regular times to provide a structure or form to assist the triad of regeneration.
Personally it would have been a Godsend for me to have been able to have had such an arrangement when the “Queen” tried to persuade me to stay.
Instead after telling him, her, it that I was firm in my descision to leave, it seemed that I was completely alone.
There were probably others who had left who lived nearby who would have been supportive, but through “communication control” were not available.
Let them know they are not alone!
Let them know where they can go!
If you think its a reasonable suggestion please comment, post an address or whatever you can offer to help.
What do you think?
What do you feel?
Am I being naive?
ltya. Cy.
“The notion of being someone who owns consciousness is at the root of RB’s teaching and the root cause of much that is false in RB and consequently false in the FOF. It is the dead end that many eventually encounter and a simple explanation as to why no one in FOF actually awakens.”
Couldn’t have said it better, myself. Thanks, Ryan. Higher experiences/understandings bring us to a loss of our sense of separateness. Call it Conscience. Call it Love. Call it Presence. But personal spiritual ownership is an illusion. Personal responsibility and integrity is not.
“It takes a quiet mind to access information from higher sources. I really think that it’s unnecessary to call it something other than what it is. Silence is the key to higher understanding, because without it, all we are is a bunch of I’s.”
_______________________________________________
Beautifully put; I second that motion…
Whalerider, please mail me the large rubber mallet next to your toaster.
Joseph, truly, your posting is a sort of second sunrise for me this morning; thank you. Coincidences are more than ’simple affirmative ‘facts’… They are oftentimes the results of both our internal white and black magic.
___________________
Thank you for posting Wayne Motts account of the Theatron. Interesting that no where does he write how much money has been collected with that aim and how much it has actually cost. It is what is missing that matters. Detailed accounts of how student’s money is used.
Being quiet: I was watching a TV special one day and they were explaining how when Jonas Salk was working he would go out every day for lunch to a place where he could quiet his mind. And from that place of quietness came the polio vaccine.
It’s also very interesting to me that it takes an effort to be quiet. It’s both an active and passive experience, or complete within itself.
One of the newly wed girls made her fiancé have an HIV test before they married. Very sensible, but he will continue to be at risk after they marry because he will still be having sex with Robert. Apparently he does Robert twice each night. Robert’s basic staple is sex five times a day.
BTW, the Romanians, ____________ and all, practice the divine art of semen retention, so they can keep going for a long time. Maybe this explains their influence with Robert…
It is also typical of the Fellowship not to mention why there has been such difficulty with the county and such horrific cost to sudents. The Fellowship knows the county building regulations but intentionally decided to ignore them and go ahead with this project without the required permits, inspections, fees, applications, meetings, approvals, etc. knowing that there would be penalties and fines and requirements to meet county codes which means additional and unnecessary expense to the membership. This is typical of the arrogant attitude the Fellowship has towards “life” in general and even worse, the total insensitivity to the financial burdens placed on the gullible membership. This is nothing new. It has been the pattern of the Fellowship of Friends all throughout its history. Grandiose plans, that cost many times the actual cost with the end result being unfinished buildings, never-built buildings, aborted projects and a bizarre pastiche of pretentious structures that members are subtly indoctrinated to believe are wondrous achievements higher than anything possible by “life people”. The attitude of the FOF and Robert Burton is one of pure arrogance and shameless insensitivity to the burdens placed on the pitifully naive membership.
Words…….
quiet mind, activity…….
Wouldn’t the state of not being identified represent the quiet side and whatever action one is doing, the active side?
Not this or that, this vs that but this and that? Not being identified to me is simply holding presence beyond phenomena without disacknowledging phenomena.
The great loss in the fellowship of friends was that the “action with presence” that Robert taught was only allowed in as much as students followed Robert’s form. The Fellowship has never allowed any student to connect his own “action with presence” to his own will. That is why we were unable to teach each other from our own being and the speakers in the fellowship are only those that are willing to speak to support Robert’s form, Robert’s school, or a permanent expresion of indoctrination. Those in the inner circle gave up their will to belong to it and that is why nothing of value has come from any one of them but the blind subserviance to Robert against the majority of students. Nothing of value, for there is nothing of human value in Isis, except the many student’s thwarted lives. Not even the gardens are organic.
Robert and Girard, overemphasized presence without functions which deteriorates the I or integrated living. That is why everyone is so insecure and the sure ones are crystallized in their assuredness. The sure ones are sure because they don’t allow questioning or are willing to reason with common sense. They answer to Robert’s sexuality with a buffer like, I don’t know and don’t understand, it is not my problem. Their leader’s highest source of energy, highest function on this plane, is not their problem.
I think action with presence means allowing the centers to both take and bring meaning from the outside world. What you do and how you do it. What you do is what comes from the outside world, a gift, how you do it, comes from the inner world, your gift. Presence in silence also means bringing from and taking meaning to the inner world. Acknowledging ourselves as worthy cosmic beings allows one to understand that one’s interaction with this world is also a feedback to the inner world. Not just one’s own inner world but also the spiritual world or the cosmos in which we are all one. The spiritual trunk from which we’ve sepated into individual wills. Leaves sending light back to the roots.
It seems to me that one of the great horrors of our time is that in the physical world we are orphans. Not just those whose parents have died but all those who have given them up. We’ve lost references, connectiions, both with our parents and our children. Our past and future, our roots and flowers. This is true of fellowship students to a greater degree than elsewhere but it is a common practice of the economy. This suffering may well be worthwhile in as much as it makes us connect to a much wider world beyond the family but not necessarily excluding it, into the realm of I as an individual and I as a human being. I as a cosmic being and I as a human or earthly being.
They are both equally necessary in the fourth way. The connectedness with above and below is also as necessary as the connectedness within one’s self. The higher serving the lower is a law in the practice of one’s consciousness with one’s physical body as much as in the practice of one’s humanity and one’s work in life. “Work” in the ample sense of the word as all of one’s manifestatioins on this plane.
“Work” in our times also seems to have become orphaned from any human meaning. To work to make money is only a minor aspect of work. Just as love, marriage and friendship are amazingly disconnected from our consciousness.
I am basically talking about myself. This is what I see is happening to me. There is hardly any balance between the centers in my own experience and I dare say, in most of the people I know in “life” and much worse “in the fellowship”. I don’t think we can ever come to balance them individually as the fellowship of friends proposed. We need to align ourselves with a wider understanding of cosmic and human processes.
If the Fellowship of Friends worked for thirty five years in as much as it went on unquestioned deeply for that length of time, what can be deeply grasped and understood is that the form does model the inner world. The form of the fellowship held itself together for that length of time because the form did not allow serious questioning and those who did were asked to leave. It had so much power to model student’s inner world that there are still over a thousand of them willing to support an institution that denies them the right to participate on equal ground as to how their community should function with the justification that there is a being that knows much better than them what is good for them and they are willing to lower themselves and acknowledge that they are not good enough to take responsibility for them selves. They are being programmed to not be good householders but intentionally disown their own will. If this is not brainwashing, what is it?
For those of us who have lived it, that is, gone through being deprogrammed somewhat from one’s upbringing to being programmed in the fellowship and deprogramming ourselves again, understanding that the outside world matters, counts, deeply programs, is a great understanding. From one angle it means realizing that how we use our centers will intimately model our presence and how much will or presence one brings to the centers, will raise the quality of one’s interaction with the world. The huge damage to individuals in the fellowship is that by giving up their will, the quality of student’s interaction with the world becomes so poor that depression, fear, guilt and so many other self denying emotions, develop.
Thought, feeling, movement and consumption all need to be in harmony with one’s will. Consumption is a crude word for the beauty of the functions of the body but I’ll simply add, consumption in as much as one can bring the same measure of gratitude to what one is consuming. Movement, feeling and thought are even more difficult to deal with than the instinctive center but the instinctive center is a beautiful analogy of any of the other centers. Presence or the divine within one in any one of them, makes us beautifully human.
Robert rooted his work on the king of clubs as an enemy because he was unable to bring presence to his instinctive center and control his sexuality. He was unable to overcome duality in his theory because he was unable to impose unity within himself. Unity is an ever affirmation of the divine in man while duality is the perception of man from the second state. Unity is integrated transformation while duality gives so much credit to the lower that it cannot overcome the struggle, it stays in duality and gives no perspective, conditioning students to their lower self instead of their higher being. It has no hope, which is why students hopelessly believe in him, having reached no clarity of their own.
The programming of the fellowship conditions students to leave out their self will in every area so that Robert can decide how to use their mind, heart and pocket. Those working in the fellowship today, no matter how much they are using their centers for some creative work, are allowed only in as much as they do not include any of their own will, their own presence and simply adapt to Robert’s severly distorted sexuality for it is, after all, his sexuality, with cero acknowledgement of the need of each individual to develop his own will, what is conditiioning all of life in the fellowship of friends.
In as much as an individual cannot develop his will, he cannot come under the law of destiny and is merely under the law of accident or somebody else’s will. In the Fellowship of friends, student’s are under Robert’s law of accident or do the males really think that it is their destiny to be sexually used by him? and the rest of student’s, that it is their destiny to support it?
170 Janna wrote
“So process is a mental concept, very useful in our lives, but nevertheless – imaginary, a mind activity so to speak.
In the immediacy on the Now there is no process.
There is no time either – this is another (useful) mind concept, or another (useful) illusion.”
A possible edit
I think process is a mental concept, very useful in our lives, but nevertheless – imaginary, a mind activity so to speak.
In the immediacy of the experience of the Now there is no process.
There is no time either – this is another (useful) mind concept, or another (useful) illusion.”
or
I experience process as a mental concept, very useful in our lives, but nevertheless – imaginary, a mind activity so to speak.
In the immediacy on the Now there is no process.
There is no time either – this is another (useful) mind concept, or another (useful) illusion.”
on 02 Aug 2007 at 6:18 am230 Janna
Former student:
“I find it offensive that you question my right to have my own understanding.”
“Did I question your right to have your understanding? How do you come up with this conclusion?”
It is a question of language. However in this (writing on the computer) form intent does not count as much as form since what is exchanged it is limited to language. By making non-conditional or universal statements you deny the existance of other possibilities. So if I don’t agree you are saying I’m wrong. This is inherent in the structure of the language.
Consider this statement.
“So process is a mental concept, very useful in our lives, but nevertheless – imaginary, a mind activity so to speak.”
There are a number of assumptions and conditions that make this false. One it is not prefaced with “in my opinion” “it is possible” “I think” “I have experienced ” or anything to indicate that it is subjective. You are not presenting a realization , experience or opionon . It is presented as an objective fact.
The “facts” as presented are that process does not exist, to think they do is mind activity and mind activity is imagination.
This is an unprovable statement because the only proof is in the experience of this state of realization.
So to me this is false. In a structered argument I could find many supporting opinions-perhaps even you did not think this way last year.
This is what Ouspensky described as lying. Lying in the sense of speaking about something you cannot know about as if you know. Consider even given that this is objective knowledge and 100% accurate you cannot prove something that is your own realization to another. This is the problem with speaking about or writing about non-dualism. Even given that it is correct. Language itself is dualistic as it reflects our normal consciousness. Non-Duality is about your consciousness. You cannot prove it by any external.
“There is no time either – this is another (useful) mind concept, or another (useful) illusion.”
This is another example. This is an unconditional statement of fact. “There is no time.”
Everything in my experience says this is false. Probably 99.99% of the population would agree with me.I don’t deny the possibility for this experience to be real for you. But in the way you are saying this without any modification you are saying I cannot have any other experience or opinion without my experience being false. Although you deny the existance of time. There was a point in time earlier when you did not think this way. If there was a change then there was a process of change.
” No, your understanding is all yours, and it totally cool with me. Sorry to offend you. I really mean it. It must be my English that makes it sound … whatever.
“I was just trying to have a conversation. To share how I see it. Hoping we can compare, talk, argue may be… I guess we can’t. You seem to perceive it as some kind of personal attack and get into defense mode. No fun! It is not an attack, it’s a friggin blog! Words on screen written by someone you’ve never met… Why take it SO personally?”
Why take my thoughts and feelings personally? Because they are mine ( and it was a full moon) and I don’t need to play any Fellowship make believe personality games. In the Fellowship an act of fiegned indifference to ones own thoughts, feelings and desires is cultivated to indicate that one has a “higher” being that one is “non identified”. This is a lie. Non-identification is an internal state. I can be cranky, hungry, irritated, thoughtful. logical and a myriad of other things and not be identified internally .
As long as I realize they are just passing states much like the external weather, as long as I know they are not “me” that I can have my sense of self and attention more on that which is unchanging and unmoved behind the shifting play of the many “I’s.
In a converstaion you can create room for different views by not presenting your opinions and currant understanding as universal facts it makes any other opinion wrong.
This is partly a question of semantics, ( the meaning or relationship of meanings of a sign or set of signs; especially : connotative meaning )language and that is the limitation of this form.
Part of what the experience of the Fellowship of Friends seems to do is remove the habit of owning ones own experiences and opinions. To remove the ability to say this is what I think, I believe, my opinion without needing to be “objectivly “correct.
The Fellowship has been using “objective” facts that are really lies for so long that it becomes a mental habit for those in the Fellowship to seek universal principals to justify themselves where they are neither possible nor needed.
“If my words are that offensive – I am sorry. Again, I mean it.
Wishing you peace,”
They are not that offensive. ( offensive – causing displeasure or resentment ) In other words they cause displeasure-If you are familiar with my posts in general there is one (if not more) area that I generally will react to and that is presenting an individual opinion as objective information.
I accepted this once from Robert Burton at some cost and I am not that tolorant even if it is just a misuse of language.
I think this reminds me of the way the Fellowship distorts communications and understanding and minimizes the sacredness of the individuality..
If all it takes is a minor change in language to communicate more effectivly then to me it is worth making a point of it.I am sure we agree more than disagree.
I can send you a copy if you wish; do you have access to Amazon.com and postal service @ the ocean? Since you’re already a ‘Daughter of Fire’ I am under no illusion that it’s going to be a sort of self-revelation thingy; simply, for me, it was a sort of ‘companion’, intuitively I ‘latched onto’ her Sufi teacher, gave me a good idea of what Shams might have been for Rumi, yet too understood her proximity to him as well, so far as my subjective understanding of such relationships are to ‘outside certain somethings’… Kiss the ocean for me… Geez… I’m a bit jealous you’re there; god, I love the ocean!
249 Unoanimo,
My email is ludoteka at succeed.net. I never made it to the ocean so there’s nothing to envy although the ocean of green of the Andes is equally beautiful. I’ll be in the states in a few weeks. Would you care to talk?
Really? You think I am one of “Your Russian friends”?
You have “Russian Friends” as well, interesting…
And I would guess that you are a “Russian Friend” to someone else. Is it some sort of a game ex-FOFers play?
Janna: “Dear, would you be my “Russian Friend” ?
Her ‘friend’: “Yes, my love. But you have to be Present.”
–
Janna: – WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING HERE ON THIS BLOG??? And where is YOUR real name, you brave chickenshit?
- NOT YOUR DIRTY FUCKING BUSINESS!!!, said “Who Knows” in his usual aggressive style.
-AND IF YOU WANT MORE SPECIFIC ANSWER, ASK A SPECIFIC QUESTION.
Specific |spəˈsifik| adjective – clearly defined or identified • precise and clear.
And since you are one of the few enlightened here, and, as you said you know who I am, you should know my name too.
Kinda stupid to ask, isn’t it?
On The Expression of Negativity according to The Fellowship of Friends ~
Quote from a previous blog (somewhere in Part 13, in the 500’s) ~
“Dear friends traveling to Milan,
Robert is offering to seat with you and sign a volume of a book chosen by you at the reception after the meeting in Milan. If you would like to purchase a volume of “Best Thoughts” or Thoughts from the Teacher”, please contact X in Milan. You can also purchase a volume at the Apollo Media Products table after the meeting. If you would like to bring your own volume of a precious book, please do so and contact X.
Book signing: EU 50
Dedication: EU 100.
_________________
Quote from Hans ~ “Expressing negativity is always a weakness.”
_________________
As the years have rolled by (similar to tumble weeds that contain the one sock everyone has lost in the washer or dryer at some point in their lives) I have observed that the Fellowship of Friends ’still’ have a very Robert Burton idea of the expression of Negativity, i.e., formatory, very subjective and in my opinion not an idea birthed from Higher Intellectual Center.
Take the above quote concerning the book signing and please current Fellowship of Friends, ask yourselves this ~
Robert Burton: What exactly is it, to charge your already (subconsciously spiritually destitute followers; and you know it) and financially maxed out contributors, who beckon to your every call with their cash and blank personal checks, including their virgin bodies and essential, naive essences, who stare at you smiling, similarly to the status of their blank checks, $50 dollars for your 4 second signature and another $50 dollars, totaling $100 dollars for your 20 second personal dedication?
Subtle negativity?
Yes, I believe so… It is this category of negativity that the ‘regular’ emotional connection simply cannot see or stand to fathom it’s implications; yet, is it not true that such ’subtle negativity’ is exactly what the ‘personal conscious’ affirmations feed or attempt to neutralize in the Fellowship of Friends via subtle positive emotions of the same ‘real’ quality as the subtle negative, a sort of “seems to be”, “though might not be”, “yet one really cannot know for sure”, sort of cult-drug, which feeds on one’s duality rather than one’s attempts to reconcile conscience, contradictions, hypocrisy and lying, to try and be the same person in every circumstance?
Your ‘teacher’s’ subtle negativity is one of the enormous ‘electronic forces’ that keeps your ‘electronic psyches’ in a Relative Awakening stage and state (my opinion) and he counter-sues you by feeding you, again, the flip side of the same wooden nickel, subtle ‘positive’ affirmations that lead to belief, faith, hope and the promise of heaven and hell, depending on your ‘personal’ (subtle) relationship to him and his ‘ideas’ of C-Influence, and his ideas of their ideas of his ideas concerning their will.
Relative Awakening is the inner condition of one’s total willed force stopped at a crossroads, one lane is the obvious, the other subtle; many are ‘crucified’ on the cross and by being identified with the struggle to choose and not being allowed to by a cult-leader who himself cannot, it becomes a spiritual symbol of goal, hope and faith, belief and the extreme willfulness to simply ‘trust’ that his external voice and your mid perception of his image is ‘right’ while your subtle-eye, your conscience (among other inner tools) are wrong, subjective, lower centers, etc… (?)
Your statuses as Men #4 have become your crosses, not to bear, rather, to hang yourselves out to dry in the desert of Robert Burton’s wasteland of greed and spiritual fraud…
Good luck with that ballet on the tennis courts thing; Robert being a tennis player and all, I am sure he’ll spin it as some humble sign from the gods to make him look smaller and smaller; maybe some day you guys will make him so small that he’ll be able to squeeze into your third-eye and be that for you too… You trust him, right?
____________________________
Hello ‘A Former Student’ ~
You wrote ~
“Why take my thoughts and feelings personally? Because they are mine (and it was a full moon) and I don’t need to play any Fellowship make believe personality games.”
___________________________________________
Although it seems you’re still playing the ‘Fellowship games’ by adding the “full moon” thingy; is that supposed to excuse you for being “just an grouchy old man”? Is that a justification to be an effect upon another friend via the moon and not oneself? You’ve watched my back at times ‘A Former Student’, I hope you don’t mid me watching yours a little…
Even with the chess board totally cleared, it’s still a game; we’re all pieces by some definition of the word; perhaps the origin of ‘chess’ is closer to what we ‘will to be’, ‘will to do’, can be be from that place, from where games were invented, though not for the inventors sake?
A “Part in you” – is a piece of what we in FOF call ”feminine dominance”, words like should, or must, refering to authority – “Robert Burton doesn’t appreciate what you are writing down here on the blog”. Do you want to make me pee in my pants because Robert does not appreciate that I am writing here?!
What a piece of shit!
ASK YOUR TEACHER WHEN IN DOUBT
Who said I am in doubt?
What a piece of shit!
I write here from myself, not as a representative or a delegate.
If you think otherwise, there is something wrong in your thinking.
“You first must become ‘clean’ with your ‘school’ before you will be able to speak in their defense.”
But what if I am not really defending anything? What then is my reason to be here?
And why does it matter soooo much to you and many others?
on 01 Aug 2007 at 8:33 pm
204 Rhino Neal
Thanks, Ryan (196), for posting the Nisargadatta quote: “We are accustomed to thinking of bodies as having consciousness whereas it is consciousness which has bodies.” That pretty much says it all. RN
I agree, and wish it was so.
There was a time back when I was experiencing either an extended period of awakening or a psychotic episode that I found it very comfortable to spend my time at Mountain View Cemetery and The Chapel of the Chimes in Oakland. I found it more restfull to be around disembodied spirits than those with bodies.
This is not entirely proof of insanity as Mountain Veiw Cemetary is arguebly the most beautiful area of Oakland, so it can also be a sign of wisdom and sanity to prefer it to say a shoping mall or Roberts favorite places, Restaurants.
Mountain Veiw is a Bay Area landmark designed by renowned landscape architect Frederick Law Olmsted; I often enjoyed the peace, tranquility, inspiring landscaping, and sweeping views of the Bay Area. It is a great place to walk. My favorite technique is to park on the top of the hill and amble about untill I tire and realize I have to walk back up the hill. It is also full of esoteric symbols to provide shocks to your being mentation as you walk around the different areas.
The nearby Chapel of the Chimes mausoleum is amongst amazing the best places to walk I have ever been. It is a maze with many levels and rooms . Built of fine marbles and other stone with incredible gardens designed by the legendary architect Julia Morgan, along with the chapel’s cloisters, alcoves, stairwells, fountains, columbaria, and mausoleum areas, with antiquities that date back to the 16th century. There are Stained glass, statues, murals, brass works, lamps, and mosaics . In some sections biblical verses on written at the tops of the walls . Every few feet the vista changes. You turn a corner or go up a some flight of stairs and there is something new. It is visually and emotionally stimulating full of esoteric symbols and B influence and still it offers very real physical exercise as one passes amongst the different sections and levels.
I once experienced a moment of unity. Much of what is described in non duality was true in that moment. It is not true now. Perhaps the way we interprett such experiences is also part of what we bring to it. Was that higher centers? objective consciousness? Who knows to me it is just another “fact” of life. It happened some things I remember offer profound insights other things were obviously or at least apparantly delusional . What I call “magical thinking”
It lead me to a new relationship to the “system” as it expressed my experiences more clearly than any other means I had.
Perhaps at death I will again experience this unity. Now I experience process, time, my life , my body. Arguing with me that I do not experience what I experience is pouring from the emptyness into the void. It is a meaningless act.
Can I share my experience , No? Convince anyone? who cares. I am not even sure it is a desireable experience.
If I am a cranky old guy fine. Particularly in regard to the Fellowship of Friends discussion which involves a group of individuals who spent much time , some as much as 20-30 years believing in a very nice smooth talking, well dressed con man who smiled, claimed a higher consciousness, called you goodness and said “I will love you for ever ” as he took your money and raped you or your friends, relations or husbands.
So excuse me if I don’t find what appears to be the “next big thing” in spiritual truth appealling personally. Also consider the track record of those who are now “converts” and as ernestly “preaching” this new truth as they did their faith in Robert Burton and the Fellowship last year or five or ten years ago.
I do hold everyone who participates on the blog in the highest regard not least the anynomous readers. A number who have posted to me privately at the greater Fellowship or called to say they appreciate what I am writing.
You can find my art work and personal photo’s either at the greater Fellowship as
Duncan Shockley fof 1973-1980
on webshots as Scottduncan
I moderate a rather placid group on yahoo called stillpoint devoted to discussing the ideas of the 4th way which certainly could use some help.
Also for anyone in the Bay Area I am going to try and start a new project called Leaves of Grass
The first performance is Sunday from 6-9 in Berkeley at Spuds Pizza. They have a very nice simple room with some good local art that I will use.
This will be performance art using group participation , improvised music, computer graphics , a drum circle and selected readings if anyone is in the area any help ( just showing up is help)with this would be appreciated.
Although I gather the those recently leaving the Fellowship may not find reading from Whitman appealing. I on the other hand not ever having experienced a Fellowship meeting that was just readings have no such prejudice.
“But what if I am not really defending anything? What then is my reason to be here?”
My guess would be that you already have most of the FOF membership repulsed by you, and you’re now seeing how far you can spread your misogyny beyond your sick little sphere of influence.
Dear former student,
I just express things to the best of my English abilities.
I think it is obvious that whatever I write here reflects my own prospective and experience, not some universal one as you said (how in the world would I or anyone know the “universal prospective”?)
So may be I don’t use the word “mine” enough… But I am only able to say things from my own prospective, how I see it, the way it works for me… I assume it is obvious. We all speak from our own prospective, we have to. No one knows for sure for another.
(Except for Robert of course! He seem to know the universal truth and tells you so. He usually adds something like: there is absolutely no doubt… or it is undeniable truth…or irrefutable evidence… or it is marvelous, is it not?)
I don’t use expressions like this, so please don’t blame me.
It’s interesting to me to actually look at the points expressed by others, observe, ponder, question, think, understand something new – rather than correct each other’s language or call it lying…
I think we learn new things and understandings by sharing our experiences and views. I learned a lot from this blog and want to thank everyone who contributed here and Sheik for bearing with us for so long.
Interesting that Who Knows is unable to really get a rise out of anyone. So pathetic it’s not worthy of response.
Janna – nice job not wasting your spirit on this adolescent name calling. Just move right past him.
I’ve mentioned before that these juvenile voices are not representative of the overwhelming majority of FOF members who are reading the blog, even if most choose to remain silent… for now.
Lately the non-FOF-and-therefore-more-positive-more-hopeful-more-constructive-less-sinister themes have been very rewarding for me personally. Thank you all.
Who knows – I don’t get your humor… It must be your and mine language barriers…
“But what if I am not really defending anything? What then is my reason to be here?”
- I don’t know… Loneliness may be? Fear? Desire for attention? Could be anything – who cares about your reasons.
“And why does it matter soooo much to you and many others?”
-What makes you think it matters sooo much? It really doesn’t matter. In fact, no one seem to give a crap…
Frankly, your postings kinda suck, they are bitter and cowardly stabs, – so few people told you to get lost and not to take real estate here.
I think you might have made your compliment to Janna two minutes to early; or maybe you ignited her to post 262. But I understand Janna, I have been there too!
OH, hello Bruce!
We are all so mechanical, myself included so you don’t take it the wrong way. I thought today if I just go go against my mechanics more and not be this stimuli response machine I would be more AWAKE.
What’s with you?
You seem to take exception to just about anything anyone else has to say, except you.
Hey, chill. It works like this – I say something, you say something, I say something , you say something.
In the general flow of life, it is called having a conversation.
And, then, if you don’t like what someone says, you don’t take a dump on them – they have their way of expressing their ideas, and you have yours.
Take a deep breath. Relax! Life is not as intense and miserable as you seem to percieve it.
Agreed Flying Free. I love those dreams when I am a bird flying, usually wobbly and above the street lights; Moments you have total control then one second later your about to crash into the pavement; I am always saved for some reason.
There was a good post a while back from a former student who stated to try to write and read and be present. I must admit I was completly in the second state of sleep on the above parapgraph; now there is a little more attention. Related to my mechanical observation earlier today was my many “fucking” I’s, useless shit I’s that my machine is just producing. One of the best angles I heard was at a fellowship meeting, and the student said, do not believe the I’s. That was a great angle for me and still is.
Please tell your mother to put the parental controls on your internet access and make get back to your home work. Maybe you will pass 7th grade this year. And. please, leave the nice lady alone!
“Related to my mechanical observation earlier today was my many “fucking” I’s, useless shit I’s that my machine is just producing.”
This is a good example of one of the most destructive aspects of the Fellowship of Friends, and one that has taken the longest to begin to heal: self-flagellation, self-hatred and generally low self-esteem. Life is real only when you realize your “true personality” is not your friend.
I see where you are comming from Innernaut, although I respectively disagree. I was actually feeling a low self-esteem in the morning because of work, this, and that. Then I realized, it is just the many I’s making me feel down. You could call it something else I guess, and right then when I noticed this I felt better and it lifted me up into a higher state.
I think you may have taken my point out of context but this may be your style, connect it to “how bad the “FOF is?
And you mentioned self hatred, I am not sure where you mangaged to unavel that out of what I said, but one can spin almost anything in anyway they would like to. I don’t think that is taught in FOF, and Robert use to put many exercises around self pity, so I would almost say the opposite is true of what you are saying.
But there is truth in everything and do not want to diminish anything that you have felt, and if you wish feel free to explain more of what you mean. For I trully do not understand where you are comming from.
Do you really have the courage to “not believe the I’s”?
This truly means evaporation of the ego, all faith, your persona, and that of anyone and anything you think you know and love. Are your ready to accept that “you” are the product of a your own mechanical imagination??
573 I think is worth a reading.
Dear, I think is worth a reading, my lowly opinion and I am sure that many here will not have the same opinion.
Is that Tony Parsons head is up his arson.
Is everyone also born able to play piano and do trigonometry and dance ballet at a high level?
But as said it is only my opinion and many here dont share it.
Maya Maya Maya. Cy.
I remember how difficult it was to leave the fellowship of friends. I had believed in it and wanted to re-discover that belief. I met all the people close to me in the Fellowship. The outside world seemed cold and heartless. I have to be honest in saying I didn’t leave without joining another group. I admire people who leave without joining something. I guess ultimately *Life* is the teacher and the kingdom is within you.i.e. we have to live in accordance with the essence of ourselves. I find it hard to follow the blog but you guys are amazing.
I didn’t know that Brian Sisler was schizophrenic until he left the Fellowship, but he did have a pathetic quality to him. He was a heavy drinker, an attempt at self-medication I suppose, and he sometimes got into trouble because of his drinking. He said that he didn’t feel able attend any Robert events or FOF concerts without drinking first. After one accident too many, Brian was told to take valium before attending any of Robert’s events, helpfully prescribed by Dr EH. I didn’t have the feeling that Brian was exclusively gay, he seemed to develop crushes on women, so maybe he was bisexual.
The version I heard about Brian’s attempt to contact Robert was that he was turned away by the gatehouse attendant. Robert subsequently sent a message to the gatehouse that any current or former member who asked to speak to Robert should be put through to someone close to Robert, Dorien or Asaf. I wonder if this would really work. The Fellowship # is 692-2244. Don’t all phone up at once.
Ph_lip L_cas can be lunatic about security. He likes guns a lot and regularly goes hunting deer illegally on the property along with M_hai. Others do it to, becase Robert wants to thin down the deer population because of his roses. He also gave Ph_lip permission to shoot any dogs that get onto the property. I’m told that PL took a course in a particular kind of shooting in case Robert is ever involved in a hostage situation. He is paranoid about ex-students getting onto the property, and so gatehouse keepers would be unlikely to be sympathetic to anyone who asks to see Robert.
A government department recently called the “ministers” in for interview, and in early July they decided that the FOF did not qualify as a church. There was no temple or church structure on the property, for one thing. But they made a number of mistakes, interviewing people who are over here with “monk” visas as if they were ministers (“ministers” are expected by the authorities to perform certain duties, whereas these are not required of “monks” or “brothers and sisters”) and they claimed to have interviewed one particular minister, but had not done so. All of this has bought time for the FOF, so there have been R1 meetings advising students what to say. “Ministers” who no longer rely on R1 visas have been officially decommissioned because there are a crazy number of ministers in the FOF. Of course, no one in the Fellowship of Friends refers to it as a church unless Homeland Security is listening. Students applying for religious worker visas are even instructed that they must simply answer “yes” if they are asked if they believe in God when they are interviewed by Homeland Security. Don’t tell them about the Absolute, or about God being keyed as presence, just answer “Yes”! There was a funny offical email from the FOF a while ago offering a salaried position in the “monastery gardens”. Purely for the sake of eavesdropping INS officials and others. The Wikipedia article and the new website, both of which now refer to God and “church” have obviously been developed to try and convince the authorities that the FOF really is a church.
The Esoteric History Archive, also called veronicapoe’s bookmarks, can be found at the following URL. Just copy and past the URL into your browser and remove the spaces:
www . archive . org / bookmarks / veronicapoe
Life Person — wonderfully, clearly stated. Thank you.
Comic relief — the playlet about philanthropist Hank and his followers made me laugh out loud.
Table of contents for veronicapoe’s bookmarks:
The Canons of the Fellowship of Friends, January 1, 1986
Bookmarked: 9 days ago
Noyes v. Kelly Services, Inc.
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Body Types Journal
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“Ain’t Love Gland – Excerpts”
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Fellowship Cessna (purchased January 2, 1972)
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Outside the Lodge, Spring 1972
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January 1982 Letter to Robert
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Comment: includes Robert’s edits and comments
Account of Barbara Bruno Lancaster
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Comment: From Cults and Consequences (1988)
Meeting of the Board of Directors, Renaissance Monastery, February 20, 1982
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Comment: This document was filed by lawyers for The Fellowship of Friends, Inc. in the Superior Court of California for the County of Yuba. It was obtained in the course of a public records search and is in the public domain.
Photograph, “Gathered Around The Campfire, 1971″
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Overview of Fellowship Exercises, July 26, 1980
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Comment: This overview was prepared by Student # 11.
Three photographs of Robert Burton from the 1960s
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Fellowship of Friends Timeline, January 1970 – January 1974
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Comment: This timeline was prepared by Student # 11.
Note from the period of silence, 1971-1972
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Comment: “It is good weak students leave as they are weight. It used to bother me but now it’s like a useless object being gone.”
Recruitment diagrams, November 1971 and January 1972
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Comment: Documenting the early growth of the Fellowship of Friends as an organization “which may be reached only by invitation.”
Meeting of the Board of Directors, Renaissance Monastery, February 20, 1982
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Comment: Archive.org lists this link as not available “due to issues with the item’s content.” Reposted on June 20, 2007.
“The Greatest Mystery of the Twentieth Century”
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Comment: “Can the chief feature of vanity be transmuted into a strength?”
The Canons of the Fellowship of Friends
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Meeting of the Governing Board, Lafayette School District, March 27, 1967
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Articles of Incorporation of The Fellowship of Friends, Inc.
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Guidelines for Circle of Angels, 1990-1991, Walden Farm
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Dear Cyclops,
probably he (TP) will agree with you…..I don’t, and here is another reading:
Excerpts and Dialoques from Tony’s upcoming new book
- Nothing Being Everything
Nothing Being Everything to be published mid-July
You were saying yesterday that the very seeking prevents the seeing – I am paraphrasing – it’s just such a brilliant game of appearances and deflection of attention in a way and it just helps to give an understanding of how it is all from the same font
It’s the same font, yes. One bit of it doesn’t want to be the same – or thinks it isn’t the same font.
But that’s just all the play – or what is called the Divine Play of …
It’s absolutely the divine play of being. And being isn’t the slightest bit interested in the idea of anybody seeing this or not, because there is nothing other than being … and non-realisation is also being.
So being suffers, being laughs, being searches, being finds, being doesn’t find. There isn’t anything other than that. And of course all of that is totally immaculately whole – there is only that so that is all there is. But in that wholeness there is something that thinks it isn’t wholeness, which is also being, being separate.
Being has no requirements. But what arises within being is an apparent need and requirement to find that there is no need and requirement.
And the mystery of that is just inscrutable – it’s just a mystery.
And the search for that is reflected in the world that we live in because everything we do is a search for that. All religion, all apparent personal endeavour, is simply a seeking for this unknowing.
A resolution of attention, of feeling separate?
It is a search for not being separate. The seeker cannot see this, because this is timeless being – this is the eternal isness which is out of time, out of space, out of being achievable. So what we are trying to achieve can’t be achieved because it is already all there is.
It’s kind of hard to accept – something I have a hard time accepting is that the spiritual search is no better, no higher, no more refined than a search for money, sex, power or whatever.
Absolutely. All desire is ultimately the search to come home. And what is strange about this paradox, this mystery, is that everything that is being done – all seeking, all reaching out, all personal endevour, all building of churches and empires, is being-ness. It is pure aliveness. It’s an amazingly strange paradox.
In some ancient Vedic text, or something like that, is there anything said about how that is, or about the why. I mean I know the ‘Bhagavad Gita’ says just, it’s an experiment …
No, there is no why and there is no experiment and no choice. The basis of traditional argument is that oneness chose to become two, and if oneness made a choice to become two, it could make a choice to become one again. It’s a fairy story based on the illusion of time, cause and effect.
Nothing is ever chosen. The whole dream of choice and motivation is that there is something in time that can move forward with intention from a place called twoness to a place called oneness. There never has been anything but being, and this is the eternal nothing and everything. It isn’t going anywhere and it’s never been anywhere. There is no anywhere. There is no time or space except in the appearance. There is nothing but this, and this is nothing happening.
And I see now that that question arises from the separate point of view so it is inherently unanswerable in a way. It is just an unanswerable question, but that is only because it is from the standpoint of separateness. Because in the glimpses of wholeness there is no question. There is no question at all. There is just an absence of any need to know anything because it just is. So then that question is just a loop that arises.
Yes, it is a loop and you are absolutely right, separation engenders the question ‘why’ and the searching. And as you say, when there is no one there is no loop and there won’t be any questions. There is no question and there are no answers. There is no knower and no known … and so there is no one to ask why.
But it is the most enticing question within that point of view.
Oh yes, it is, and being in separation loves asking why. And that fascination has generated religion. The question why in the seeker has generated Christianity, Buddhism, everything else that you could call a teaching of becoming that inevitably is based on the fundamental misconception that there is a separate individual with choice and volition to follow a path, to be motivated to move from one state to another, better state, to seek and find the answer that has no question.
I feel very happy to be here. I want to address the topic of being. Yesterday I learned a very important lesson. I was on my way home and I thought, “Oh I’m so much looking forward to being at home” and I realised that I was actually tearing myself in two because I was saying by implication that my state in travelling was actually less than this nirvana of simply this.
And I said, “Hang on, Robert, it’s you here, stop mortgaging yourself for some future event, it’s actually okay to be on the Northern Line”.
Yes. But you didn’t do that, it just happened. And looking forward is also beingness.
It just happened?
The difficulty for the seeker is that they think they have to do something about their state or be in another state that frees them from the state they think they’re in.
But you’re a left brain torturer aren’t you?
Oh, am I? (laughing)
Of course you are.
Oh right, I’m a left brain torturer. (laughing)
So in Amsterdam I’m The Terminator. And here I’m the ‘left brain torturer’. (laughing)
You know you said there’s just awareness?
No, there’s just being. Awareness happens, or doesn’t happen, in being.
There’s just being. And you were talking about awareness as a sense.
Well my sense of awareness is that it’s a transient state, or it’s a place you can be in and out of. It’s still in the story.
Because I was just thinking that – when you were standing there – I was aware of your left side. I’m also aware that my shoulder’s a bit tense but nobody else in the room is aware of it.
No.
So it’s as if we all have separate awareness.
Well yes, that seems to be so, and what I’m suggesting is that all these things you’ve just described are something that’s simply happening. It’s being tight shoulders or being Tony Parsons’ left side. It doesn’t need awareness for it to be, but the seeker thinks it does.
But what’s happening here is slightly different to what’s happening there.
What’s also being suggested is that there isn’t a “here” and “there”. It seems to the apparent entity that there is a location here and it seems as though there’s a “here” and a “there”. There isn’t a “here” and a “there” and those tight shoulders are simply being tight shoulders just as being this left side is being left side. It’s all only beingness.
But it’s all lots of little different bits of information.
Yes it certainly seems different, but it is oneness being everything and therefore appearing to be different. All of it is simply oneness arising. All of it is simply being.
What do we do with all the bits of information coming at us all the time?
Nothing.
Nothing? (laughing)
There is no one that can do anything and there is nothing that needs to be done or known! There never has been anyone to do anything. The whole misconception that keeps us firmly in the sense of being separate is the idea that we can do anything or the idea that we need to do anything. Why do we need to do anything? There is just what’s happening. It is all immaculately complete and without need.
So what should we be aware of then?
Nothing. (laughing) Here you go again with the obligation of having to be aware, which is a transitory state. There just is what’s happening. The idea of being aware of something is a trap. Awareness needs another and is still in the story of dualism … there is no other.
But what’s happening changes; it changes from second to second. That’s not constant.
Yes. It certainly appears to change, but everything only seems to change or be different or apart from everything else. All of what happens is being apparently happening.
So where’s the constant?
The constant is being, and it is nowhere and everywhere. What’s happening is being arising and moving around. And beingness is all there is.
And where am I in relation to what’s happening?
You aren’t. There is no one. There is no relationship. All there is is being and the idea of a “me” arises in being.
Hmm-mm. (laughing) Well what’s the value of knowing that?
None at all. There’s absolutely nothing on offer here. There’s no value, nothing is on offer. The most amazing thing that could arise from this is nothing. If you go out of here with something, then you’re still someone with something. “I now have this. This is mine to do something with”. If there’s a real hearing of this it will be seen that there is nothing to get or know. There will just be apparently what’s happening.
There’s nowhere to go. There’s no goal. There’s no carrot. There’s no prize. All there is is this. But the difference between there just being what’s happening and the sense that it’s happening to you is immeasurable.
I can understand there being no person or no choice. What you seem to be saying is there’s no past where that person has been conditioned in anything. Is that correct? There is no past?
There appears to be a past and the conditioning that arises. There is only timeless being appearing as that.
So in that sense this didn’t happen. So when is the present?
There isn’t any.
There is no present either?
This is no thing happening. There’s no past, there’s no future, there’s no above, there’s no below, there’s no inner, there’s no outer. There is no present moment. Show me the present moment … where can it be?
Is that because those are concepts?
Yes. They’re only the dream or the belief and experience of a separate person arising in this time, goals, meaning, purpose, cause and effect, karma, past lives … all that dream story arises as this. The moment we become separate we hope for an answer so we attach to that hope the idea “Oh there must be a meaning. Why is this happening? Why aren’t I in paradise? Where is goodness? Why have I lost it? There must be a meaning for this life I have, so what I must do is find meaning.” So we go to people who teach us meaning. We go to enlightenment masters who tell us, “Yes there is a meaning. I’ll teach you how to find meaning through effort, sacrifice, dedication, devotion, change, personal refinement of the body-mind or whatever other teaching of becoming.
If there’s no meaning, what stops you from being a couch potato?
Nothing. If couch potatoing happens it happens. There’s nobody who can choose to be a couch potato or not be one. So a lot of people – teachers – say “Well Tony Parsons is teaching spiritual laziness”. Of course, they’re not really hearing what’s being said. They think that Tony Parsons is saying, “There’s nothing you can do so go and watch East Enders” but actually that isn’t the message.
The fundamental message is, there is no such thing as a separate entity with free will or choice and so nobody can choose to watch East Enders or not watch it. What is apparently done or not done is completely irrelevant to being.
So when you’re attached to your identity you try to bend things, to want things and do things.
You dream that you are doing those things and need to do them in order to get more things.
So that just disappears?
What disappears is the one who feels separate and needs not to. There’s only being. It can’t be conceived of. It can’t be described. It cannot even be known.
This story is so compelling. This is so compelling.
It’s compelling and fascinating to you. If you take ‘you’ out of the happening it’s just what’s happening. What’s compelling about what’s happening right now? I mean it’s just happening. What’s the compulsion?
It’s a thought story that feels very real.
But where is that story right now? What’s happening in that story?
What’s happening in that story?
Where’s this going right now? Is there a story? What’s happening there? What is sensed there right now in the body?
Tiredness.
So that’s what there is. That is this, beingness. But the mind gets hold of the tiredness and says “Well, that is your tiredness and so what you need to do now is get to bed, or not work so hard, or use your energy in a better way”. And there you are back in a story trying to make things better for you.
Yes. And it’s because the tiredness is there.
No. It’s really because you are still there taking ownership of the tiredness. Then when you’re in bed and you’ve slept for 12 hours you’ll take ownership of feeling better. It’s always telling you “You’re going to feel better – or worse”. It’s the greatest and most powerful addiction there is … you.
What’s your sense of standing here right now? Is there any way of describing that?
Warmth. There’s being warmth, excitement, feet on the ground. Somebody’s moved just over there. Cars going by.
But they don’t add up to a kind of something?
No, they just are what’s apparently happening. The formless in form … beingness.
Okay so they’re not being joined. I think maybe we’re joining them.
Oh, the separate entity joins them and makes them into a story that can be known. And they also dream that what is happening is happening to them and it has meaning about getting somewhere.
Okay, what I experience – it’s absolutely true – is an incredible feeling of vulnerability as though the shell’s come off.
Yes.
And I kind of get a bit like I’ve got goose bumps. I just feel really like …
Risky?
Yes. It feels like something has been peeled off. Something like a prawn or something. If you peel off the casing there’s just no protection. And it feels uncomfortable. If I don’t go into a story it just feels uncomfortable physically.
The way you get back to being you and feeling safe is to go into the apparent story of you in time.
Yes, but do you just cope with that vulnerability and go with it?
No, there is no one to cope with anything, there is just nakedness.
It just all happens then?
It’s like being naked and open to everything and there’s a sense of risk about it. Everything is suddenly unknown and very alive … there are no filters.
You get used to it?
There is no one to get used to anything. There are no artificial filters that you previously provided as an individual. That’s why it’s got nothing to do with what people call detachment. It’s totally full-on aliveness … for no one.
I am taking the liberty of re-posting #407 from Part 6 of this blog. Thank you again, Joe Average.
Joe Average Says:
I am forwarding an old letter from an ex-student, as valid now as then. Be warned – I have trimmed it a bit where you see …, but it is still long.
Dear Friends,
Of late, my friends and I have been labeled “dissidents”, and worse, by FOF’s leadership. While reading this letter it would be helpful if you could simply consider me an old friend.
… Please permit yourself the clear space to receive these thoughts and feelings in order to work with them as completely as possible. Given the current situation, I understand that this will not be easy for you. It certainly has been a disturbing process for me as well. However, I have been overwhelmed by the weight of my observations and feel duty bound to share them with you.
This letter is not intended to serve as the last word on REB or the FOF. Nor is it written to prove or establish a particular point of view. Instead, I hope that it will create a balance to the information you have received from FOF, and act as a springboard from which you may begin a long overdue reappraisal of your own feelings and presumptions. Many of you are mired in a way of life which, for myself and many other ex-members, was neither happy nor enlightening, but instead offered little more than tedium, suppression, exclusivity and debilitating dependency.
Of late, FOF has required all of you to believe that certain ex-members, as “dissidents”, are “bad” simply because criticism of REB and FOF is not now and never has been permitted. These people have been described as “vindictive”, “crazy”, or “liars” … Apparently it is unthinkable to FOF that anyone could sincerely believe (or know) that the allegations directed at REB are true. But given a history of intense involvement with REB, do you really believe that ex-members would turn around and speak this way unless they really felt that something was wrong? From FOF’s narrow point of view, one would have to be fallen, dark, and just plain wrong to criticize their “guru”. I implore you to remain open to the possibility that your old friends are none of the above.
The author of this letter has over the past year spoken with approximately 40 ex-members who have uniquely personal and varied perceptions of REB and FOF. Among these people are a number of former high-ranking FOF officials and board of directors members, as well as personal and sexual intimates of REB. …
They are all united in the belief that accurate information, dialogue, real consideration and anything remotely like discrimination have never been offered or encouraged by REB or FOF. Therefore, they would like to see a free, full, and honest discussion occur. Such a discussion would benefit everyone, except for those who desire only the maintenance of their status and claim. Everyone, especially the “rank and file” FOF membership, must be set free in order to find their own true way through this controversy.
It is obvious however that as long as ex-member “dissidents” are seen as negative, dark, angry, unspiritual “others”—and “you” in FOF remain the righteous, holy lovers of god, unjustly criticized, god’s army fighting off the heathen masses and demonic media—as long as this contrived dichotomy persists there can be no clarity. …Do not permit the FOF leadership to call you to a false, childish, and simplistic understanding of this controversy. It is a complex, personal and deeply emotional matter that cannot be resolved or dismissed through name-calling and character assassination.
… This matter cannot be reduced to a battle between good and evil…
Instead of encouraging an open discussion, FOF has used the same tactics that any political organization would use. They have created a “cause” for you to rally around and feel emotionally committed to and identified with, so that you won’t stare the accusations against REB straight in the eye. They would rather hook you into a fight to protect “the right to freely practice religion”, a right which they claim ex-members have tried to deprive you of. But in what way has anyone actually done this?
Let’s take a little closer look at the constitutional protections afforded to “religions” such as the FOF. The right to believe whatever you want is protected absolutely. However, the right to do whatever you want is not afforded the same absolute protection at all. Many of the things which REB has been accused of do not fall into the category of actions which are protected. Additionally, is it not reasonable as a common citizen to ask why people who have been involved in illegal activities should be granted the privilege of tax-exempt religious status, as claimed by FOF? And if, in fact, abuses of people have occurred (through actions which are commonly recognized as abuses in our society) shouldn’t the victims have a right to address them in all the forums available? How then does this amount to an attack on religious freedom?
…The difficulty for many of you is that it has been so long since you entered into an examination other than one created for you by REB and FOF that to do so on your own and to examine “the authorities themselves” is a very difficult task indeed. And yet it must be done if there is to be any clarity or passage through this controversy.
All I ask then is that this process of unfettered examination be permitted and actually encouraged by FOF. Ask yourself how it is that you are now “advocates”, burdened by belief and fixed presumptions. Why hasn’t REB and FOF welcomed and seen the necessity for an open airing of issues? Why have you all been programmed and “educated” by the FOF propagandists on their way to whitewashing the so-called “FOF sacred history”? How does spiritual practice properly lead to all this manipulation and defense? Who and what is requiring that you become politicized rather than clear? And how well do you really understand that which you are being called upon to defend?
I invite you to regain the discrimination and inquisitiveness many of you have unconsciously chosen to relinquish in order to associate with REB and the myth he has drawn you into (both as to who he is and the necessity of turning to him for your liberation). If we assume for the moment that REB began his “teaching work” by speaking to our desire for liberation, apart from excess dogmatic baggage and entanglements, it is evident that he has now “moved on” and is at work merely cultivating in his students a yearning for salvation in a system where only he can do the saving.
… And if we accept that REB’s writings carry a credible message, they do so only insofar as they release the reader into his or her own inherent sense of “being” and “truth”, free of the game of “the search”. It appears impossible for this to occur in the midst of all the medieval, dogmatic, exclusive, ritualized form beneath which direct, unmediated truth has been buried by REB and FOF. After all these years, where is the real evidence that any type of “spiritual process” is uniquely occurring within your community? People are just growing older. The greatness of god has been subordinated to the glory, of REB and his hierarchical empire. Needing to be nurtured and fathered, and being naive as to true spiritual culture and to the game of spiritual authority, most of us never even noticed the light go out.
This is a large part of what ex-members are trying to address. You are part of a highly ambitious and politicized “machine of seeking” where you no longer own your own perceptions. Ideological dogma coupled with the edited information of the group dominates and molds your life. You are required to adapt to a complex, sophisticated technology of mind and emotion, through which you understand yourself and upon which you view the world; it is a hierarchical scheme with REB as the head, reigning above and beyond the world of man, as external savior or father. We have all been too much in need of an external mediator to serve the participation in and awareness of our own true condition. We must grow beyond the childish and incapacitating dependency bonds which are everywhere propagated by REB and FOF.
In many ex-members’ experience, the first doubts and questions about their lives as devotees centered around the observations they had regarding the “community” and “institution” of FOF. But they found it much harder to take the obvious next step and look directly at REB, the source and creator of every aspect of the “culture”, institutional structure, and spiritual life of those in FOF. These ex-members, like many of you, dared not break the great taboo of seriously questioning or doubting REB; either their comparative lack of in-depth or prolonged personal experience with him or their incapacity to break through the indoctrination prevented them from seeing him clearly. But finally, in the face of what is now obvious, their relationship to the mythology and imagery which is REB has broken down. These people have “discovered” the man Bubbles Burton, and now know that “the emperor wears no clothes.”
At this point it would be good to examine the specific activities of REB that many people are concerned about. Some of the information recently brought to light will be recounted here for those who are unfamiliar with what has been said, or for those who have been confused and distracted by FOF…
To begin with, REB has historically had control over the finances, properties, and other assets of FOF as if he personally and solely “owned” FOF, in stark contrast to the purposes and laws governing non-profit religious organizations. He has personally made all key decisions and has gratified his every whim, caring not for the financial strains he has placed on others. There are serious questions regarding whether REB has over the years abused the tax-exempt status of the FOF corporation for his own personal gain. Perhaps this is why FOF officials in the past few years have strategically destroyed documents that tended to reveal that REB was actually “running the show.”
REB has always demanded that people “go beyond themselves” to give him more money than they could afford, and then has spent the money on whatever he wanted to create or consume in that moment. Like a child, he has demanded the immediate gratification of his material desires, and then has often abandoned what he has been given in search of a new and more expensive “toy”. … In private, REB has laughed at those who have shown any concern about his financial exploitation of others. This is purportedly an example of the fact that REB is “free of conventional morality.”
…REB has participated in and required others to perform in sexual and related acts of a highly degrading and demeaning nature which have caused psychological and/or physical damage to those participating. FOF has recently admitted to examples of these types of activity, which many people believe are a reflection of the perversion of REB, rather than anything like enlightened “spiritual instruction.” … These sexual excesses of REB are not a thing of the distant past…..
And it is the firm belief of many people that the inordinate amount of time and attention REB spends on sexuality reflects nothing more than his own obsession and desires.
The vast discrepancy between what REB claims and says, versus what he does and intends must be thoroughly examined and understood before one can make an informed response to the man. What should be clear to everyone is that no one in FOF is given the opportunity to “cast the light” directly on REB. Why is he so estranged and hidden from you, really? Apart from your child-like fantasies and subtle beliefs about “who he is” and “how he works”, how much and how privately have you observed him and then tested your observations?
The fact is, apart from what you have read and are told, intermixed with a variety of contacts with REB years ago, most of you know very little about your teacher. You have therefore been called to relate to only the most superficial imagery about who REB is, and at the same time you have become steeped in an officially prescribed method for relating to him which permits only subservience and fawning devotion. And those of you who have been close to him should ask yourselves to what degree you own hopes, needs, and self-generated projections and expectations, coupled with the mythology about how REB’s “unconventional behavior” has been designed to teach you, has colored your perceptions of him. Ex-members know from their own experience that many of you are paying a heavy price in terms of emotional suppression, confusion, and self-delusion in order to maintain the false conclusion that you have actually been served by this “crazy-wise” madness.
Another disturbing matter regarding REB is the ritual of secrecy and deception surrounding him. Some of the things described about REB’s life would not in themselves be worthy of any real concern if they did not stand in complete contradiction to an idealized image which has been used to exploit the people who have supported the whole affair. … It was on the basis of this lie that so many accepted the notion that his past behavior was in fact a “teaching demonstration”, and went on to give their lives, minds, hearts, and money to this man. However, upon discovering this deception, many were understandably outraged. …
You may ask yourself why those who know all of these secrets have always withheld them from you. But we already know the answer. How glamorous to be associated with the ultimate matter and the ultimate master! But what a conceit and what a foundation for the pursuit of power. Through the screening mechanisms of the so-called “culture”, only the few “mature” or “committed” members are given access to REB based upon a paranoid and patriarchal mentality of obedience. The demonstrated signs of your “maturity” (i.e. submission and obedience) gauge the level of your “status” and regulated, controlled access to events, places and people on the political (not spiritual but political) pecking order…
REB’s behavior is a reflection of his own character and motivations, just like everyone else’s, and he should rightfully take responsibility for the problems his shortcomings have created in his own life and the lives of others. He is anything but free of ego. He has his own strengths and weaknesses. Yet through the process of indoctrination and manipulation, coupled with the weaknesses of those around him, he has been successful at keeping himself invulnerable and unquestioned. In so doing, he has become afflicted in all the ways that any man would be corrupted and deluded by excessive power and isolation from critical feedback. He has also thus imprisoned himself within the expectations he created in others and the torment of pretending to be something he is not. …
…Nor is it any longer accepted that “the world” is a terrible place full of terrible people, and that spiritual life ends when one leaves FOF. People now know better than to become ensnared in the tentacles of this argument. And where there was only “one” worthy of love and respect, all others became unworthy and worthless. This is what happened in FOF, for as we were all divested of our own selfworth and simultaneously invested in REB, we were rendered nothing rather than “no-thing.” Can you feel this?
We have all (current and ex-members), along with REB, cooperated in constructing this insane empire. It is a classic and perverted play on what might have been. And it is nothing like what most of us signed up for or thought we were choosing. But so long as you are exposed to the “system” which life in FOF represents, there is no space within which to understand this and be set free.
…those who serve critical functions in your “culture” adapt to a profoundly dependent form of relating to REB and a resulting righteous, exclusive, self-glorifying, self-protective and politically charged “life of service.” You are all aware of the institutional mentality of those who lead you at FOF. They are part of a machine and priesthood of aberrated spiritual seeking and corruption, an exclusive club, reigning in association with the “enlightened” source or “goodie” who is offered as a reward to those giving over their center, discrimination, and direct unmediated ability to live the truth of their own condition.
In this process many of you have lost yourselves, your power and your way. And for REB to hide behind a claim of “blamelessness and divinity” while placing all the blame on the immaturity of his devotees, those very people who depend on him for their spiritual guidance, is not only irresponsible and cowardly, but the perfect vision of a perfectly narcissistic megalomaniac. Surely there was a time before you came to FOF where you could have simply recognized this to be so.
But can you now? It is so hard from where you are. I know, for it has taken many people years, even after leaving FOF, to wake up from the sleep which had settled into every corner of their mind’s eye. Although discrimination is spoken about in the teaching, it is nowhere present in the lives of devotees.
Many of you have, through non-use, lost your own personal, instinctual feeling for life, having been conditioned to believe that it represents recoil from the divine. You have become good at obeying without reflection. Your blank agreement is applauded as “equanimity” and the transcendence of reactivity.
Those who are in the FOF hierarchy have the most to lose. And they are among the most corrupt and in need of help. These people are relieved of the ordinary responsibilities of life and live instead a bizarre fantasy life. To do the bidding of their teacher they have become proficient at selectively withholding and releasing edited information, and have made the poor choice of abandoning their native sense of human decency in exchange for power and prestige.
Many of these same people are the most seriously ambitious in their “search.” It is as if they have not yet adapted to the rudiments of the practice as it relates to the “search” and yet are influential simply because they are “submitted.” Having made such a heavy investment of time and energy in gaining their status and position, they are now banking on their “personal” relationship with REB to save them. In this way there is a tremendous amount of manipulation around the poles of hope and fear. You spin and turn but rarely find a seat from which to observe the play. … The shocking news that thousands of people see this “master” of yours as a tyrannical and deluded power broker never quite reaches your ears or cannot penetrate your rehearsed belief.
When finally pressed up against this blunt observation from “the world” outside, you hold up “the teaching” like a crucifix to stave off the heathen hordes. You retreat into the “certainty” that nothing like “the teaching” could ever have been written by a charlatan. But many believe that REB’s, or anyone else’s ability to artfully synthesize, categorize, and recapitulate ideas and insights does not bear any necessary relation to spiritual realization and maturity. Aside from his particular style of presentation and arrangement of things, there is nothing uniquely described in REB’s literature that does not appear elsewhere. … he has borrowed from or been heavily influenced by numerous others to whom he has given no credit at all. The fact that he has been able to articulate the free and transcendent relationship to life that we all instinctively feel in moments, coupled with the fact that he writes and speaks about many things which are beyond the realm of your personal experience, is offered as “proof” that he is spiritually superior to you.
Many of you have apparently forgotten the simple truth that actions speak louder than words, and that insights which are not practiced are meaningless, if not dangerous. Your distraction with a complexity of abstractions and a sophisticated, “pre-packaged” context within which to interpret everything has left you “incapable of seeing the forest for the trees.” “By their fruits shall ye know them”, said one spiritual teacher nearly 2,000 years ago. And it is on this basis that each one of us must draw our own conclusions regarding the spiritual status of Robert Burton.
I am so glad to no longer be where many of you are, and I wanted to take the opportunity to tell you why. In many respects it would have been far easier to write this entire matter off as just another set of experiences. But I have felt too much passion and serious caring to have made that choice.
Should any of you meander out beyond the fences and psychological barriers of FOF, you will find that there is “unavoidably” only god outside your temple walls. Your spiritual life may change in form, but it will continue. And there are many people who have been through what you have experienced and can thus offer help. Many have needed and received support in order to make the critical transition back to a measure of self-respectability.
…It would have been preferable for all of you to have done the work of provoking this discussion. But I understand why this could not be so and trust that you will soon recognize the benefits which will ultimately come from what has been started. If in the end there is a bit more openness and honesty in FOF, a degree of self-critical inspection, or a drop less arrogance and exclusivity on the part of Robert Burton, we will have all been served…
Sincerely,
Mark D. Miller Sausalito, California USA
______________________________________________
Now, before you dig too deep in your memories trying to remember that name, I should let you know that I needed to make a few small changes to the letter. Do the following substitutions, and you have the original letter:
Bubbles Burton = Franklin Jones
Robert Burton = Da Free John
REB = DFJ
FOF = JDC (Johannine Daist Communion)
The idea is obvious, hopefully. Just change the names and the rest of the text, despite its length, complexity and level of detail, is a near perfect fit – word for word, point for point. Would Margaret Singer just smile and nod knowingly at this point, Joel?
Nothing unique in REB’s approach, nor in its results in his students.
From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Adi_Da/Archive1#Why_Adidam_settled_the_lawsuits_and_for_how_much
Good substantial armourments of True Spirit being written recently. Sorry I cannot dwell on my e-machine/windows xp Chariot of Fire too long.
Thought this declaration explained to me by a dyslexically innumerate Protestant Eireann (you figure that phrase out using a dictionary if necessary) might help in the legal underpinnings:-
Nigel: How about a Class Action lawsuit?
Arthur: Ah yes, ‘we the people undersigned intend to
sue you, the Corporation, with our resources
both money and information ($44M would be nice
-my addition!).
Will write this evening (United Kingdom time)……….Nigel.
Dear Anna: #16-520
Thank you so much for your post. It shines among others as a real gem. Its honesty and truthfulness brought tears to my eyes. You will undoubtedly inspire many others to look deeply into themselves for the answers to the difficult questions facing all of us.
“…he (is) simply attempting to align (with) me, with the minimum possible personal involvement.”
Perfect description of how a sociopathic/psychopathic personality functions in the world.
Your analogy of the sequence as a gateway to higher states is exquisite and bears repeating:
“Imagine that you are longing to go swim in the sea, you stand at the water’s edge and then instead of leaping right in, believing that it’s not possible to enter directly, you take six steps parallel to the waters edge, at each step you say something like: Splash, float, cool, refresh, cool, Splashhhhh…, believing that at the end of these steps you will be actually be in the water, but of course you are not… you remain on the hard hot sand, to get in would involve dropping the notion of a prescribed route there, and this would be ‘wrong’ it would be contrary to your teacher’s instructions, so you persist in walking next to the waters for which you long, step, step, step, step, step, step… perhaps you will feel disheartened and defeated and give up in the end, or perhaps you will continue for ever, eternally failing, eternally missing your goal.”
A word about Theo. Thank you for that, too. I believe your account is the first time his story was revealed on the blog.
I want to assure you and others that doing the sequence is most certainly not the cause of Theo’s break with reality, which may be misconstrued from your post. I regard the sequence as fairly benign, and with the ‘right’ intention and understanding you could substitute your own words for the same temporary effect. (If you do so, I recommend changing the words monthly.) Theo’s symptoms fit the mold of the onset of schizophrenia. The symptoms typically commence between the ages of 17-21, about the time a person begins separating from their parents. Often the symptoms wax and wane, and can even go into remission for long periods. People afflicted often seem impervious to cold, can ‘read’ other’s thoughts, and have a wide-eyed wonder about them, as you might if you started having visual or auditory hallucinations. They often neglect their personal hygiene, and can emotionally and intellectually withdraw as well.
I hope you will continue posting, your voice here is invaluable.
Good morning ~
Hello #559/16 ~
You wrote ~
“He does not know how to deal with dying people. When Peter Bishop was sick with Lung cancer “terminal” Robert went to visit him and asked Edi-th “Can he speak?” Peter from his sick bed replied “Yes”. The man has no idea and is afraid of dying. You can not lie around dying people they feel it, false personality is completely useless around dying people. Our Robert Burton does not have the being to deal with dying people, have you?
Have you spend 3 or more days with a terminal ill person.
Fat Boy that is a real “teaching”.”
__________________________
Yes, my friend, I sat with this for awhile, trying to sense what it is that we are ‘really’ doing by exposing Robert Burton’s non-conscious responses to events that would ‘normally’ (my normally) produce a type of reverence and quiet no-little-me awe…
I recall my Great grandmother’s death, how it floored all that was petty (and pretty) in me, how it vacuumed out all meaning in ‘my life’, how it showed me the no-thing-ness of everyone’s incredible tenacity to go, go, go… For she was certainly, profoundly staying, right where she was and would even go as far as to die there, so deep was her stillness that death seemed to be a natural ‘next step’…
I mystified my great grandmother’s death, yet, too, it was a sort of reflection-ing that had occurred in me as well, it did something to me; at first it ‘made me’ resentful of others taking life for granted, brought judgment of my parents and relatives immaturity in the whole matter, then it called down, I realized that it was all mine really, that even my grandmother dying was me somehow, because certainly I could not relate to it as she did… it was me seeing me; the rest was up to ‘her’ and the mysteries she took with her, both solved and simply hers.
One thing I do recall Robert Burton saying concerning Perter Bishop’s deathbed time was ~ “Now he is closer to my state.”
I also recall when he was being carried down the steps of the theatron by students and seated to watch the ballet;
I too remember how profoundly insane I thought it was that his experience was not seen as the ‘real ballet’ to watch; yet, this is Robert Burton’s style, to put silk pants on the Boatman of the River Styx, while he’s reaching out to you for the coin for safe passage over… Nothing personal Robert, these are simply observations, perhaps even a suggestion, that when someone is ending their role on this earth, try not to prolong the impression of yours by turning the dying and dead into lipstick dispensers.
________________________________________
Hello 428/16 ~
So far as the Greaeagle apartment; not sure how old your information is, but that place was sold a very long time ago and was always in Goldman’s name. So far as the property being put in AG’s name; that sort of Jimmy Cricket sort of dancing around is not going to save the Fellowship of Friends from loosing it in a class action lawsuit, particularly when AG will be listed as one of the party’s being sued, alongside the Fellowship itself; think of class action lawsuits as ‘blind nets’, they drag the bottom of the whole lake, bringing up stuff that the fisherman may never have aimed to ‘catch’, though nevertheless is right there for the consideration.
If I were E. (Anna’s sister) and C., I’d be changing the co-signer on their house loan from Robert Burton to someone outside the inner circle; and rearrange the free land Robert Burton gave them to be something more profoundly ‘right looking’… Just a suggestion; that can also go for S.D. and M.D. across the street.
Although I do not hold the handles to the cloud maker; a storm is coming Grandpa, stop watching traffic, get off the rocker and get inside, “your house is on fire.”
____________________________________
Hello 440/16 ~
Yes John, we’re (not sure about the ‘we’ part yet) working on it (I hope) ~ You too can assist, the letter section is up now
THANKS SHEIK for that, thank you very much.
____________________________________
Hello 542/16 ~
Defending what we perceive as ‘the living’ to spite what we perceive as ‘the dead’ won’t help anyone, particularly Nick; everyone is still alive and well, even Brian: and no, he’s not pissed off at me.
____________________
Hello 564/16 ~
Thank you Joseph G., thank you.
____________________
Hello 520/16 ~
Anna, could you get in touch with me via the blog and give me an email address where I can reach you; I believe I can assist with Theo.
_____________
P.S. Hello Sheik, I guess you did not get that long letter/reply to Fat Boy I sent about three/four days ago(?)
Thanks again for the letter section…
_____________
Love to You All
Hello Anna (520).
You’ve expressed yourself so beautifully.
I simply want to thank you.
LL
Unoanimo wrote,
“So far as the Greaeagle apartment; not sure how old your information is, but that place was sold a very long time ago and was always in Goldman’s name.”
The “was” in my post applied to Graeagle.
deleted at the author’s request
Hello ‘Critical Mass’ ~
You wrote ~
“but Graeagle (Robert’s old Sierra Nevada apartment) and the Palm Springs apartment are/were in the name of Abe G.”
_____________________________________________
It was the “are” that I thought was a bit ‘off’; “were” is closer to the current situation.
Actually I could not find a “was”… go figure.
It’s cool, I’ve got your drift now…
:)
Hello,
I’m not sure if I’m writing to the whle world but in 7:11 Unanimo asked for my email address so here it is:
a.tudor@chello.nl
Thanks to Ann T#520 for her earnest and beautiful post and also to Life Person #558 for an excellent, slap-in-the-face description of Robert Earl Burton.
I suggest printing and distributing these in the Fellowship and the community at large.
Hello All.
I echo Vena’s sentiment about “Life Person’s” post (6-558).
If you haven’t yet read it I recommend it highly.
The appeal is in its simplicity.
LL
Vena 17/17 ~
May the Zerox be with you.
;-0
# 520 Dear Anna,
Thanks for sharing this long slice of your life and for being honest about your perceptions and feelings during that times.
Just before I left , I was speaking with some friends (some are still in) and we came to the conclusion that it was like if the teacher was selling us the air we are breathing.
I make this comparison with what you said “ you cannot find something which is already there”.
This is quite a liberation to think that this can be so easily within reach.
During your time in the fof, I remember you were quite pretty, now you are beautiful.
The best to you.
Aline
Hello Anna,
Your post has made me laugh with great joy since I started participating on the blog. In fact I have not experienced this much joy in years. I am delighted with your freedom.
From one angle having been in the fellowship is similar to the situation of people that have been on drugs for years. It then takes years to recover one’s self enough to start experiencing normality as “alright”.
I’m wishing to address your plea to Parson’s about how to regain the experience of oneness not because I have reached it but because I’m also looking for it!
My first three months in the fellowship were not too different to your friend Theo’s experience. In fact, every angle I ever gave in meetings was trying to return to the fellowship those experiences that the fellowship had given me.
The last six years in Isis I lost most traces of that beauty but I am not overly disappointed by that.
Many of you mention how presence is there and need not be looked for. Or how it came to one, somewhat out of nowhere.
In my case always some effort before but the quality of the state was way beyond the effort so immense gratitude accompanied them.
We’ve been concentrating on focusing the I for years and reaching some higher states, great states of understanding mostly of the unity of things but the states come without our will as if a deeper, higher dimension suddenly walked into our little being.
I don’t need to say we, so it is fine to say I but by your experience Anna, I can see that it is very similar to mine and probably a lot of other students, who have described it similarly.
You mention the great separation between higher and lower centers and indeed, while I may agree looking from that angle, what is it that is needed for us to bring them together so that the high state is not simply a flitting experience but we fill the ordinary moments of our life with the unity and intensity of the high state?
This concerns me because I have long seen a tendency to look for those states like drug addicts without giving more meaning to the practical world of our every day life and I am convinced that it is in our every day life, in this world with all its difficulties that meaning has to be brought from and to.
Allow my disperse mind to give fleeting ideas, maybe others will put them together in better order.
One of the points for me is that in a higher state one knows unity while in the low state one knows separation. Separation is imaginary in as much as we have bought them from our programming. We’ve committed ourselves to competing with each other, to separating ourselves in classes of every kind, money, education, alchemy and so forth.
In a higher state the perception of one’s oneness with the rest of human beings is actualized, in fact. the living experience of one’s humanity is actualized as an inseparate entity to other human beings but in the lower state we are separated. What and how then can we actualize these understanding of our bondness if not with re-connecting? Like in this blog?
My question is: It is more than fine to experience the beauty of oneness in a high state but is it not less fine to practice the beauty of connecting with each other and theworld around us in the lower state, of actually practicing the understanding of one’s being?
I am not talking about it theoretically. It is not just pretty. In a way what is amazing about Robert Burton is that to me everything he said was right, the individual approach to consciousness was acurate but he then separated us from the world to practice it, he divided us into different classes of citizens, he used us against each other and ourselves and he violated the integrity of every man he bought and ours who supported him.
It was not the theory in as much as the individual is concerned what was so absurd, it was the fact that he stripped the individual from the world outside and in so doing, took away his being because it is in the interaction with the world outside that being can develop in the fourth way.
Thank you Anna and all of you for this morning’s bread!
thanks anna
on 28 Jul 2007 at 12:56 am
545 Hans
Hello,
I have a question, why to blame others for our mistakes and decisions?
so, if you decided to do something, be a man, and be responsible for your own decisions and mistakes and do not blame others.
Bullshit
Speaking the truth
is part of healing
Telling the The victims of abuse to not blame the perpetrators is like telling the victim of a crime not to report it to the police and go through the criminal prosecution process but to be forgiving.
These are general principals the blog is specific
it is about a specific group of criminal co conspirators who systematically used the cover of the 4th way and the Gurdjieff Ouspensky teachings to create a form of pyrimad scheme that functions to enrich and empower a mad man at the center of a web of deception and lies.
Perhaps a use for positive imagination is to attempt to visualize what the Fellowship of Friends might have been if Robert was not mad. What if all the money did not go to his personal uses, his debauchery, his excessive spending on items of poor taste, poorly conceived and even more poorly executed octaves. What if instead he used the funds for adequate housing, supporting the vineyards instead of milking them dry. Rebuilding the restaurant.
Well what ifs are useless in the real world except to understand some of the consequences of his madness in regards to the group and the individuals he lied to , misled , marginalized an raped.
In the Fellowship from what I understand freedom of speah is limited. The blog has a pre eminent function of allowing freedom of speech and the circulation of the facts, the truth about the criminal Robert Burton and his co conspirators who control the false “4th way school” called the Fellowship of Friends.
Although it is 10 years later; all of this article is still applicable today and then some…
_____________________________________________
Fellowship Of Friends-A Cult In Oregon House, California.
Another lawsuit filed against F.O.F/Renaissance Vineyard &
Winery, Robert Burton, Girard Haven, Abraham Goldman, Helga
Ruth Mueller, and Clair Bowen–directors of Fellowship of
Friends, Inc. The lawsuit brought by Troy Buzbee and filed
on April 29, 1996 in the County of Yuba.
Complaint for Damages is in Case # 060209
1. Fraud
2. Intentional infliction of emotional distress
3. Negligent infliction of emotional distress
4. Breach of fiduciary duty
5. Negligent supervision
6. Sexual misconduct with a minor
7. Sexual harassment
8. Wrongful discharge
9. Negligence
10. Failure to pay minimum wage
11. Battery
Fellowship Of Friends Cult – By Michelle M. Milligan
“Within the pages of the case are facts and details concerning sexual and perverted acts practiced by Burton, his philosophies and ideologies expected of the members.”
According to the case, Robert Burton, “The Teacher”, as referred to by members, began the corporation Fellowship of Friends in 1971.
The “Fourth Way philosophy is taught and practiced by the Fellowship of Friends. The location of The Fellowship of Friends herein referred to as the F.O.F. is in Oregon House, however the F.O.F. refers to their location rather as “The Renaissance”.
Troy Buzbee’s father became a member of the F.O.F. in 1976. Richard Buzbee’s son Troy was only seven years of age. Richard Buzbee was told that if he paid his teaching payments each month and followed the tasks and suggestions of the teacher, Robert Burton that he would
enter “the way,” become “conscious” and “immortal.” He was told that Burton was a “conscious being” and that he was “celibate.” He was told that he could trust Burton completely with his body and soul.
From 1976 through May 1994 Troy’s father was a member of the Fellowship of Friends. As Plaintiff Troy Buzbee grew up he regarded Robert Burton as a God.
According to the case distinction between Burton and Troy’s father were not clear to him at times. Troy Buzbee became a member on October 10, 1966 when he was 17 years of age, virgin.
After Defendant Burton and Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends, INC’s factual representations and undue influence caused Troy Buzbee to lose his ability to think independently, he became increasingly subject to the domination, control and undue influence practiced, implemented, and used by said Defendants.
In direct consequence of such deception, coercive persuasion, brainwashing and undue influence, Defendant Burton used Troy Buzbee, among hundreds of
other young men, for the partial gratification of his satyriasis, an uncontrollable compulsion to engage in sexual conduct with scores, if not hundreds, of men. In addition thereof, Defendant Burton exploited Troy Buzbee for the provision of cheap labor, well under the minimum
wage.
Said exploitation continued off and on until the time when Troy Buzbee terminated his membership with Fellowship of Friends, Inc., in August 1994.
Commencing in December 1986, Burton, would have “teaching dinners” during which he would ply Troy with alcoholic beverages. After one particular such meal in December 1986, Burton instructed Troy to come to Burton’s room and to shut and lock the door. Burton told Troy that
Burton was “an angel in a man’s body”, and the gods wished for Troy to be close to Burton. Defendant Burton then held in an embrace.
Defendant Burton said, “influence C wishes you to be close with me. “He repeatedly assured Troy that his “soul was not (his) body, and that the angels wished for (Troy) to be with (Burton).” Burton explicitly told Troy that the “angels” wanted Troy to disrobe, and the “angels” wanted Troy to submit to Burton’s sexual advances because Burton himself was an “angel”, a goddess in a man’s body.”
Burton said to Troy, “I promise you I am an angel in a man’s body.” “You have to remember that I did not write the play about Robert Burton.” Burton would kiss Troy on the forehead which he said represented the seat of the soul and then instruct Troy to “separate” from his body and just “let go”. Burton reminded Troy that Troy’s
body would soon decay while his soul was immortal.
Burton told Troy that he would talk to him after he died using the same soft voice he used at the time. Burton explained that for him the interaction with Troy went beyond conventional sex and into “supersex”, which was a
method characterological evolution.
Defendant Burton stated, “My
sexuality is on the level of Super-Sex.” From December ‘86–April ‘94, Troy submitted to Burton’s demands, which were: Drop out of college, provide Burton with sexual favors and provide hour long massages after Burton had been sexually serviced.
Burton used money from the corporation to pay other members for performing specific sexual acts. In denominations of $50 or $100.
The case mentions one case of “specific sexual acts” performed on Burton by Karl Feldman, Troy Buzbee’s best friend. Burton spoke openly about his sexuality in the form of jokes at the all-male dinners that he would often lavishly host at all-male, all-you-can-drink “symposiums.” He would boast that “one hundred boys would not be enough(for his sexual appetite).”
Troy worked at the gatehouse on F.O.F. property. Burton directed certain members who are “guards” to arm themselves with firearm-type weapons. Burton then had him become his “personal” guard. During the next four years Troy observed numerous men in Burton’s room in a single night. Troy was asked to massage Burton after his lovers left.
According to the case, Burton suffers from sexually transmitted diseases. He made no effort to tell Troy. As a consequence, Troy acquired viral herpes. In addition, Troy suffered from stomach ulcers.
Renaissance Vineyard & Winery, Inc. was built as a bomb-
shelter in obeisance to Defendant Burton’s prophecies regarding massive and wide-spread disaster and chaos in the near future.
Defendant Burton uses Renaissance Vineyard & Winery, Inc as his alter ego in the same way he uses Defendant Fellowship Of Friends, Inc.
According to the case…..
At all times mentioned herein Defendants Girard Haven, Abraham Goldman (also an attorney), Helga Ruth Mueller, and Clair Bowen were members of the board of directors of the Defendant corporation, Fellowship Of Friends, INC.
At all times mentioned herein all of the Defendants were acting as the agents and servants of each other and in doing the acts complained of acted within the scope of their agency and employment and at the direction and with the knowledge and ratification of the other Defendants.
The Defendant Burton at all times mentioned herein, dominated, influenced, and controlled, and does now dominate, influence and control the Defendant corporations and the directors and officers thereof, as well as the business, property and affairs of the Defendant corporations.
At all times mentioned herein, there existed and does now exist, a unity of interest and ownership between the Defendant Burton and the Defendant corporations; the individuality and separateness of said Defendant and Defendant corporations has ceased; and despite
knowledge of these facts, Defendant corporations and its officers and directors have had notice of acquiesced in and agreed, consented to, and ratified the conduct of Defendant Burton as herein alleged,
At all times since its corporation to the present time, the Defendant corporations have been and are now a mere shell and naked framework which the Defendant Burton has used and does now use as a conduit for the conduct of his personal business, property and affairs.
Defendant corporations are subject to a unity of control, and its corporate structure was created as an attempt to avoid payment of taxes and civil judgments and to confuse courts and those seeking redress for these Defendant’s acts. Due to the unity of personnel, commingling of assets, and commonality of business objectives, these Defendant’s attempts at separation of Defendant corporations and
Defendant Burton should be disregarded.
Defendant Robert Burton directs, controls and operates Defendant corporations and uses them to enforce his orders and carry out his attacks on groups, agencies or individuals, including the acts against Troy alleged herein, to the extent there is no separate identity between Burton and said Defendant corporations and any claim of such separate identity should be disregarded.
The Defendant corporations were created and are being continued and maintained pursuant to a fraudulent plant, scheme and device, created and operated by the Defendant Burton, whereby the benefits and
product of the income and revenue of the Defendant corporations are diverted to the use and enjoyment of the Defendant Burton through the Defendant corporations to himself while concealing the truth of his financial relationship with Defendant corporations.
Prior to the formation of F.O.F. and Renaissance Vineyard & Winery, Burton formed a conspiracy in concert between the corporations for the express purpose and intent of developing and implementing a plan and scheme which would permit Burton and co-conspirators to:
a. use, abuse and exploit the fiduciary relationship between the Defendant Burton and the Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends, INC,, on one hand and the members of and contributors to the Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends, INC,, on the other hand
for their own personal unlawful gain; and
b. to use, abuse and exploit the fiduciary relationship between the Defendant Burton, as ‘founding minister’, and selective members of the Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends, INC., for the express purpose and intent of performing unlawful and perverted sexual acts upon the persons of said members, including Troy, and by causing certain of the members, including Troy, to work for Defendant corporation Renaissance Vineyard & Winery, INC.,
and Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends, INC.
That all times pertinent hereto, the Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends, INC., and the Defendant Renaissance Vineyard and Winery, INC, were formed and operated by Burton and said other Defendants for their sole and exclusive aggrandizement and to create an ambiance of neo-religious import which was and is currently being used by Burton and the other Defendants to manipulate, unduly influence, and control the minds, bodies, and the assets of the members of the Defendant
corporations for the sole and exclusive purpose of 1) satisfying Burton’s satyriasis-his voracious appetite for perverted sexual pleasure and elegant life-style; and
2) diverting the contributions and donations of the membership to their own use and purposes.
Members of the Fellowship are required to donate ever-increasing sums of money as they become further and further vested as members of the Fellowship with the caveat that when donations required of them are
not timely and completely made their membership is either revoked or they become indentured servants of the Defendant corporation in residence at its principal place of business for nominal compensation and required to perform degrading menial tasks of a full-time basis
at the whim and caprice of the Defendant Burton
and other authorized representatives of the corporate Defendant Fellowship Of Friends, INC., and Defendant Renaissance Vineyard And Winery, INC.
All donations made by members of the Fellowship are devoted either to the continuing worldwide recruitment of new and replacement members with fresh money to contribute to “the cause,” or the acquisition of assets, including but not limited to, Defendant Renaissance Vineyard and Winery, INC,
which are ostensibly being acquired for the use and
benefit of the membership but which are in reality being acquired for the personal benefit and aggrandizement of Defendant Burton and some or all of the other individual Defendants named herein.
Meanwhile, Defendant Burton annexes free and unfettered use and enjoyment in and to the assets of the Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends, INC., Defendant corporation Renaissance Vineyard And Winery, INC., and the benefits to be derived there from, including, but not limited to, the provision money for bribes to young male members to prostitute themselves in an intensification of
Defendant Burton’s compulsion and demand for sexual servicing of his long-standing state of satyriasis.
The entire, purpose, scope and extent of the aforesaid plan and scheme as implemented by said Defendants is to effectively deny the members of the Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends, INC., not only the right to participate in its rituals and teachings on an ongoing basis but also, and of equal importance, to deny members of said Defendant corporation, including Plaintiff, of their just right to participate as beneficiaries entitled to use and enjoy
the property of said Defendant corporation.
Troy suffered from fright, horror, grief, shame, anger, humiliation, embarrassment, chagrin, disappointment, worry, self-loathing, self-betrayal and self distrust.
Haven, Goldman Mueller, Bowen knew of all these afore-mentioned practices of Burton.
They have agreed and abetted Burton in his efforts. They knew of Burton’s diseases and said nothing.
At all times pertinent hereto, Defendant Burton, and the other Defendants, caused Troy’s mental and emotional centers to become deceptively and coercively inculcated with the following tenets:
a. Defendant Burton communicated with “C-influence” which was provided by “44 angels” which were each individually named including, but not limited to, Jesus, “Benjamin Franklin,” “Lincoln” and “Bach,”
and that Burton was the Fellowship’s only connection with
said “angels.”
b. Defendant was and is the most important person on the planet since Christ.
Defendant Burton claims a numerology of consciousness where he has already advanced to a man number 7.3, with Christ being a man number 8.
Burton is above man-made laws, a moral law unto himself.
c. “C-influence” brought Troy to the Fellowship and Defendant Burton, and that Troy’s interactions with Defendant Burton would be the most important relationship that Troy could ever have.
d. Defendant Burton is assisted by “C-influence” to guide the spiritual evolution of the member “students” with “shocks” designed to help them “awaken”.
e. The members of the Fellowship are special, and set apart by higher forces for survival. Members of Defendant Burton’s “inner circle” must associate only among Fellowship members must disregard non-members, and demonize ex-members who are critical of Burton whom “the =gods” will “destroy.”
Such ex-members’ opportunities for growth and
development are terminated failing to submit to Burton.
f. Defendant Burton possesses gift of prophecy that is infallible.
g. In 1998 California will “fall” in huge earthquake whereupon people will die in massive numbers.
h. In 2006 there will be an Armageddon, where all humans everywhere except for members of the Fellowship will be expunged by higher forces.
i. Members of the Fellowship will inherit the world’s material goods and act as the “Ark” for a new civilization based on that of the Greeks of about 450 B.C., and are thus presently preparing themselves to bear the torch of civilization now and in the future.
j. By following Defendant Burton’s directives so as to gain “being” (depth of character) through separating from suffering and immersing themselves in culture, mostly Western art, classical music, opera and ballet, Fellowship members, including Troy, are preparing themselves
for being the “Ark”.
k. Everything the members of the Fellowship, including Troy, had learned since birth was “false” and caused him to exist in a kind of “waking sleep.”
The Defendant Burton informed Troy that in order
to “awaken”, he had to replace what was “false” with what was “true” which was defined as the system of ideas as The Fourth Way, including all the “new” knowledge that Burton had added to that system.
l. Defendant Burton stated, and states, to the general Fellowship and to Troy, that without “C-influence” Troy could not “awaken”.
m. Defendant Burton stated, and states, to the general Fellowship and to Troy, that to “awaken” was the only way to avoid having the purpose of his life be to provide “food for the moon.”
n. Defendant Burton stated, and states, that Troy’s people outside the group as “life-people,” he said were “tragedies.” Burton said Troy’s own mother was such a “life-person” and that the Fellowship was Troy’s “real” family and Burton was his “Father.”
o. Defendant Burton stated, and states, to the general Fellowship and to Troy, that any challenge to the extent of Burton’s excesses of greed and satyriasis to be a lack of understanding of his practice of “crazy wisdom” which he asserts that he must force himself to perform is forcing himself to live that way for the good of the members as a “lesson.”
_______________________________End Quote
l.t.y.a.
571 Bass Ackwards
478 a former student
Thanks for your input. I have to say, from my perspective as a foot soldier on the ground here, “with all due respect Sir, it does seem to be solution for myself and for so many of my Friends.”
Perhaps this is true. It does not resonate with me. If you read Anna T’s most excellent story I have experienced the condition of “awakening” several times. The one she described witnessing in her young student is one I experienced myself.
About 1995 I went through a process over a period of several weeks which eventually peaked with a moment of oneness with the creater. Fortunately I had the system to assist in keeping “grounded”. I learned a number of things. One was that when higher centers function, when what we call “higher states” are circulating it is the lower centers that limits what can be processed. There is misinterpretation, imagination, and magical thinking, as well as new insights, greater attention, and a more complete consciousness.
Being able to sustain higher states requires the development of “being”. That is the lower functions.This is not theory. This is my reality. The single most valuable experience I had in “awakening” was to have a benchmark to compare my “normal” state to . In other words ,for me true awakening is a realization of my own sleep.
For myself I believe Robert Burton did experience an awakening in the early “70’s but failed to develop the being in the lower functions to sustain the higher states and the humility to accept the realization of his own sleep.
When I read lengthy post’s ( like #573 I think is worth a reading…)
It does nothing for me, provides no new insight’s. This however does not mean it may not be what you describe the next step for Fellowship Members who have grown rigid in their thinking and understanding who need something to stimulate “thinking in a new way” and opening themselves up to new experiences.
Anna’s story resonates with me because it agrees with my own experience.
Duncan Shockley FOF 1973-1980
Now here comes this idiot savant.
The most positive aspect of the blog is the telling of the truth about Robert Burton and his crimes.
The second is the true process of healing
which includes the discharge of the poisons that have corrupted the inner being of Members and former members.
The Christ said in the gospel of Thomas “make the inner as the outer and the outer as the inner”
True healing in this context includes accepting and processing the internal contradictions fostered in the Fellowship and making them external.
That these expressions come out negative is not in itself a negative action. It is a process of discharging this negative contradictory material ,what is literally the waste matter of an ongoing inner process of digesting the experiences of the past and moving towards a new and higher understanding.
394 Medicine Man
To all who are interested in HEALING
this blog and the whole situation,
please, READ CAREFULLY!
THE TIME HAS COME.
THE TIME TO HEAL.
OURSELVES AND OUR REFLECTIONS.
on 26 Jul 2007 at 12:01 am
359 C influence
To all currant Fellowship of Friends members
As a divine messenger from higher mind I have a task to pass on specific information.
I am not a teacher and will accept no students.
The prophecies were a test to see if you would stay loyal to the school.
You passed as a reward you are here by given permission to Remember yourselves and enjoy the rewards of your efforts. No depression, earthquakes or nuclear war now what?
Robert Burton was entrusted with the care of our little nursery for souls and has abused that trust.
Have no fear, there is justice and you and he will all get exactly what you earned.
The next step in your development is simple-Be the words
I now absent myself from this blog
The true teachers are amongst you
Seek and you shall find
Ask and it shall be delivered unto you
“The way to liberation is to train yourself to live in the present without
waiting to become anything. Give up becoming this or that, live without
cravings, and experience this present moment with full attention.”
The Buddha
7 I think is worth a reading…
This post is exactly why I cannot find much of value in this approach. Saying words cannot describe something then introducing an entire system of sophist though that supports this premise and goes on and on is a trap. I don’t question the reality of being I question the need for yet another new form.
24 Duncan: “I learned a number of things. One was that when higher centers function, when what we call “higher states” are circulating it is the lower centers that limits what can be processed….Being able to sustain higher states requires the development of “being”. That is the lower functions.”
Many of us have had experiences of higher states like you describe. And it may well be that they are limited by “lower functions”. Trouble is that these states are unususual and unsustainable whatever you do. I’ve never met anyone who’s in a permanent higher state, have you?
But as has been said here many times it doesn’t matter anyway as we’re all permanently in presence/awareness whether or not we like it or realise it.
RN
It seems to me that in the late 70’s those in the know passed it down that Robert Burton said that we (Fellowship members) had about four years to save our money because of an impending economic depression.
This reason I remember this is because I told somebody outside the Fellowship of Friends.
I dont know what he did with that passed on information if anything, but since reading this blog, I hope he didnt do anything. I havent spoken to him since and doubt whether he remembers.
The point is that in my estimation 1981-1982 the economy according to the passed on information was going into hard times.
Now I think that the law of seven kick in and Robert Burton went down and headed the other way.
May I suggest, while I get some practical emails sent to my natural father, that you all try – Google – ‘bi-polar affective disorder – artists’. It will give you insight into the ‘agony and the ecstasy’ that REB talked about – maybe he has ‘the Force’ – but abusing it. I am absolutely sure that Walt Whitman suffered from the disorder – what is normal anyway? Average or just plain boring? ‘Be yourself, neither feign affection’ – Desiderata. Oh, decisions decisions. All the best with The Quest until I post again……………Nigel.
Don’t miss post 16-520 folks!
Bass Ackwards 57 “So, for any student who has been around 10, 20 or 30 years, we know that Presence is IT. And we buy into the “Cult” side of things to varying degrees, each to his own propensity. For all those who are not crystallized Howard Carters, understanding someone like Maharaj (Nisargadatta) can be the ultimate and freeing ray of light.”
Funny, three of us were discussing this over dinner last night. One consenus-type thought was that the word Presence means two utterly different things in the teachings of the FoF and of Nisargadatta. What happened to us when we first got into this a year or so ago is that initially there were some attempts to see similarities, but as all the old FoF anf Fourth Way concepts dropped away (wonderful feeling!), we saw the futility of all that.
This is just us, of course!
x RN
Ironically, today I received a letter to my home address from Wells Fargo for someone with the first name of “Hafiz”. I chuckled to myself. Don’t think that if you leave the Fellowship of Friends that you leave the school, or that synchronicity magically ceases. It’s all whether you choose to interpret, spin, or ignore it that matters. It created a nice moment for me, and then I moved on to the next moment with a smile.
Dear Rhino Neal ~#280:
“Being able to sustain higher states requires the development of “being”. That is the lower functions. Many of us have had experiences of higher states like you describe. And it may well be that they are limited by “lower functions”. Trouble is that these states are unusual and unsustainable whatever you do. I’ve never met anyone who’s in a permanent higher state, have you? But as has been said here many times it doesn’t matter anyway as we’re all permanently in presence/awareness whether or not we like it or realize it.”
I don’t believe that higher states are limited by the lower centers. In fact the lower centers are enhanced by higher states, in a systemic or holistic way. Otherwise, higher states would make us insane, which is sometimes the case in the unprepared or novice.
It’s your acquired personality that would limit the state by identifying with it. You run the risk of being deluded as Franz Anton Mesmer who believed that he was the sole source ofthe ‘animal magnetism’ that he used to cure people. He did not know himself. And by the same token, one’s lack of self-respect or lack of self-esteem (lack of healthy narcissism, that is) would prohibit one from recognizing that we are all indeed conscious all the time anyway. Without healthy narcissism we are prone to look for that validation outside of ourselves from an authority figure. If we pay someone, such as Robert Burton to tell us we are in a higher state, then what a great business! Paying someone to recognize something we already have! You can get that here for free.
Just being present for one’s own personal gratification will limit your higher states, for there is no utility there for the Conscious Aspect of the Ray of Creation, you must participate in the ‘flow of things back to their source’ so to speak. They are a gift and you must pass that gift along to be gifted more.
So IMO unless you are investing that higher state in the other two lines of work, you eventually will hit a wall. The other two lines of work are not independent of higher states! IMO, if your higher states are intermittent, then you do not have the other two lines of work functioning properly for yourself.
If you open your eyes a little wider, look around the world (or your community), you see that there’s lots of work to be done-or undone as the case may be. Choose a good cause for your third line, surround yourself with loving friends (or create a loving family for yourself like I did) and you will do swimmingly well. Keep to your aim of realizing yourself in the present, always and everywhere, and you will attain spiritual virtuosity. The Fellowship and the fourth way diverged paths long ago. I hope you can tease out the gems of the fourth way as you move on done the road here. These I have verified for myself; they work, even though I parted with the Fellowship of Friends 22 years ago.
The only way I have found to sustain a higher state for my first line of work exclusively, without the use of drugs or lunatic efforts, is Holotropic Breathing, which, BTW I only recommend, and am not in the business of facilitating. It’s a real trip! But hey, don’t listen to me; I’m just an old fart. Check it out for yourself.
I was working on editing material for a
“performance Art piece” based on “Leaves of Grass’
While editing “Song of Myself” it came to me why I am offended at the non-dualists. It is nothing in the information which I generally agree with it is that in my opinion the majority of Fellowship of Friends both past and present have sufficient information what is lacking is being. That specific being which the 4th way is supposed to help develop ,individuality, consciousness, conscience and will. I am offended by the idea of continuing to look outside themselves for what can only be found internally.
Perhaps Bass Ackwards is right and a new approach is needed.
I question whether more words is the solution to a lack of effort to be the words.
Walt Whitman wrote
“I celebrate myself, and sing myself,
And what I assume you shall assume
For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.
I loafe and invite my soul,
I lean and loafe at my ease observing
a spear of summer grass.
My tongue, every atom of my blood,
form’d from this soil, this air,
Creeds and schools in abeyance,
Retiring back a while sufficed at what they are,
but never forgotten,
I harbor for good or bad,
I permit to speak at every hazard,
Nature without check with original energy.
Have you reckon’d a thousand acres much?
have you reckon’d the earth much?
Have you practis’d so long to learn to read?
Have you felt so proud to get at the meaning of poems?
Stop this day and night with me
and you shall possess the origin of all poems,
You shall possess the good of the earth and sun,
(there are millions of suns left,)
You shall no longer take things at second or third hand,
nor look through the eyes of the dead,
nor feed on the spectres in books,
You shall not look through my eyes either,
nor take things from me,
You shall listen to all sides and filter them from your self. 3
There is a rule-of-thumb of espionage which goes:
Observe the facts,
ONLY the facts,
and extrapolate backwards to discover WHO benefits from a given situation,
and this will give you the key to the underlying truth.
James (I’ll be) Blunt – BACK TO BEDLAM – first track – Beautiful Dawn – Oh ! Brave new world, that hath such people in’t (Amanda – The Tempest by William shakespeare) – Second Track – My LIFE IS BRED – MY LIFE IS PURE – Hard to contain myself – NIRVANA PERMANENT _ Jayne confirmed it – Rodney Collin – “We must let Divine Madness take hold of us now, before Hell freezes over” – and if you go through Hell in your LIFE, go fast and furious so as not to be consumed by the flames – BUT QUENCH THE FIRE – ONCE AND FOR ALL (FOR YOURSELF).
My crime in California was being made illegal (after an honourable start with an H1 visa for a year – but made defunct by unscrupulous employers and incompetent legalisers) – with not enough money to turn back to the UK and the need to press on (still that extra mile – ABBA [our Father] – I BELIEVE IN ANGELS.
And God becomes sick of bland saints and those with no character (even Empire Storm Troopers – Robert’s Robots – to refer to a popular character in a comic magazine of my youth).
Fallen beings deserve saving – the lost lambs? – figure it out for yourself. Peter Pandaemonium/Peter Panacea. Nigel.
#33 A Former Student
It is a paradox (and yet not). Non-dualists speak from the perspective of dissolving the delusury individual perspective while Whitman seems to promote and exalt the personal experience. Both are expressing the same “something” (no-thing).
Ken Wilber has written and speaks often of the need to develope higher “cognitive structures” (being) and has catagorized a hierarchy from modern developmental psychology. He posits that this developement is necessary to contain , maintain and translate higher states that occur.
Perhaps you have looked at his work? I think you would find fascinating.
PS.
BTW, for the last five and a half years, my third line of work was my in depth involvement in a cooperative, parent-participation nursery school where my kids attended. (For Scott, it’s the twelve step program, it’s whatever works for you, as long as you believe in it.) Being there for 3-5 year old children as a mentor was a joyful, challenging, and rewarding experience, providing many shocks and greatly rounding out my understanding of myself, human development, and human nature. I highly recommend it, if you are starting out with kids. It is well worth the investment of time. I believe I made as much a difference in those kid’s lives and they did in mine.
***********
What is the self that you remember the non-dualists ask? IMO, it is the particle of consciousness that you have been leased to grow while you walk on the planet. (Guess that makes me a material guy in a material world.) It is your personal and temporary point of singularity, the spectrum of which can extend from the vortex of a back hole to a radiant star. It has nothing to do with your tastes, your desires, your dreams, or the sum of your knowledge. You carry it with you always, and if you hold it too tightly, it falls through your fingers like sand. You can turn it up or down, but it doesn’t shut completely off until the end when it returns to its source. Look at life around you, how could it be otherwise? Just like a chard from a holographic plate or the DNA code contained in one cell, if you focus on it intently, it will recreate the entire paradigm from which it is derived. Some call it the soul. It weighs 21 grams…the difference in body weight between life and death.
This NOURISHMENT from Rushkin follows your ‘wake-up’ call (35).
FRONDES AGRESTES
Section 1 (from a previously Sectioned Being Under the Mental Health Act)
Principles of Art:-
3. It is the common consent of men that whatever branch of PURSUIT ministers to the bodily comforts, and regards material uses, is ignoble, and whatever part is addressed to the MIND only, is noble; and that geology does better in reclothing dry bones and REVEALING LOST CREATIONS, than in tracing veins of lead and beds of iron; astronomy (listen Hugh Lusted!) better in opening to us the houses of heaven, than in teaching navigation; botany better in displaying STRUCTURE (Burton, you spineless jellyfish) than in expressing juices (ditto!); surgery better in investigating organisation than in setting limbs.- Only it is ordained that, for our encouragement, every step we make in the more EXALTED range of SCIENCE (Ken Branagh – I, big nose, Know) adds something to its PRACTICAL POSSIBILITIES; that all the great phenomena of nature, the knowledge of which is desired by THE ANGELS only, by us partly, as it reveals to farther vision the being and glory of Him in whom they rejoice and we live, dispense yet such KIND INFLUENCES and so much of material blessing as to be joyfully felt by all inferior creatures, and to be desired by them with such SINGLE DESIRE as the imperfection of their nature may admit; that the STRONG TORRENTS (Dopamine Overload – listen, Frank Aniseed ball – no placebos for me – I want the real pill – Huey Lewis “I want a new drug, one that won’t make me sick”), which in their own gladness, fill the hills with hollow thunder, and the value of winding LIGHT (Jesus Christ abstracted), have yet their bounden CHARGE OF FIELD to feed and barge to bear; that the fierce flames to which the Alps owes its upheaval and the volcano its terror, temper for the metal vein, and warm the quickening spring; and that for our incitement, I say, not our reward, – FOR KNOWLEDGE IS ITS OWN REWARD, -herbs have their healing, stones their preciousness, and stars their times.”
Welcome to the WORLD of your possibilities, America.
“Turn, O Libertad” – WW (III?)
Nigel Harris Wallace ap Rhys. (that’s fighting talk-name!).
Dear Whalerider,
Could it be;
There are no particles of consciousness, just one whole which “you” already are.
Much Love,
Ryan.
Dear, “a former student” #33
Non Dualism includes by definition everything and no-thing, including the concepts you outline. The individuality you promote is a dream within consciousness as are you.
Much Love,
Ryan
Critical Mass 3
I didn’t know that Brian Sisler was schizophrenic until he left the Fellowship
Sooooooo many people are diagnosed with schizophrenic.
So many tender souls are diagnosed with words. Have you ever spent time with them. They are also “Teachers” Try it out. Especially listen to them, be with them without judging or trying to put your personality forward.
Many people I know who are being diagnosed as schizophrenic are very sensitive people, who might hear voices and speak with not invisible energies. Who else in the fellowship is doing that too? Is n’t he also medicated heavily?
Please forget the labeling and please do not react negatively to this entry.
Keep the good memories up from Brian and wish him peace.
Burton (softly) said, “We are all slowly reaching the Finish Line”. We of the TRUE spirituality are slowly ‘laying it on the line’ to FINISH off Burton, ONCE AND FOR ALL. No more Foffing…………………………Champion the Wonder (Pack) Horse. xxxxx
To 41 Another Name
Russell Crowe “A Beautiful Mind” (good film – recommended)
“It is only in the metaphysical realms of Love that True Logic can be found – I am, because You ARE!”
Former student
I think I know what you mean….I just said ” it is worth a reading”…also Lao Tsu said the the real Tao is that one can not be spoken of and then he wrote 98 verses….It is quite ironic no!!
xxx
16#81 The Letter in Question
on 23 Jul 2007 at 8:50 pm
Mentions U.S. Internal Revenue Service (IRS),
U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS),
U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS),
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE),
U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI),
California Governor’s Office,
California Attorney General’s Office.
It is the duty of the Attorney General to see that the laws of the state are uniformly and adequately enforced (California Constitution, Article V, Section 13.) The Attorney General carries out responsibilities of the office through the California Department of Justice.
******
CA AG WhistleBlower Hotline:
(800) 952-5225 or (916) 322-3360
******
[Current CA Attorney General is Edmund G. (Jerry) Brown Jr.
He is the son of a former CA State Governor, a former CA State Governor, a former CA Secretary of State, former Mayor of Oakland, but somewhat more importantly: 'completed his freshman year at the University of Santa Clara before entering Sacred Heart Novitiate, a Jesuit seminary in August 1956. Two years later, he took vows of poverty, chastity and obedience. In 1960, he left the Society of Jesus and enrolled at the University of California at Berkeley. He received his B.A. degree in Classics the next year and then entered Yale Law School, where he graduated in 1964.' So, he knows a bit about religious life as well as law. Additionally: 'spent six months in Japan studying Japanese culture and Buddhist practice, worked with Mother Teresa in India at the Home for the Dying.' Check out his bio for more detail:
http://ag.ca.gov/ag/brown.php ]
But the posting missed one rather important entity:
California Secretary of State
(Debra Bowen) who,
among other things, is responsible thus:
*Grants the authority to do business in California…
*Administers the Victims of Corporate Fraud Compensation Fund (VCFCF) from which court-ordered restitution is provided.
*Confidential address program helps protect the identities of survivors of domestic violence, sexual assault…
The Secretary of State serves as the custodian of records for corporate records filed with this office.
The Business Entities Section is responsible for:
* examining, processing, filing and maintaining documents relating to the formation of California (domestic) corporations, the qualification of foreign (out of state or country) corporations to transact business in California, and any amendments to the records of the domestic or qualified foreign corporations;
* responding to inquiries relating to status or other information concerning corporations of record;
* providing certificates (of status or filing) and copies of corporate documents upon request; and…
General provisions governing most corporations are found in the California Corporations Code:
See:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/calawquery?codesection=corp&codebody=&hits=All
See: 9110 (domestic nonprofit religious corporations)
PART 4. NONPROFIT RELIGIOUS CORPORATIONS
In the aim to put an end to the Robert Earl Burton brand of SPIRITUAL TERRORISM, called the Fellowship of Friends, Inc., a California nonprofit religious corporation, you can attempt to remove the foundational corner stone by getting its corporate status revoked as being fraudulent. Then the whole house of cards collapses under its own weight. [Try and find the jokers then.]
Robot Earl Burden
Hi Another Name (post 41 at the moment),#
Please don’t react negatively to my message either. (I can play that game too.) Yes, there’s more to individuals who are diagnosed “schizophrenic” than just the medical diagnosis, and I have spent time with schizophrenics. There are techniques that can help people to not be put out of balance by their perceptions, and that can help them to distinguish helpful voices from destructive voices. And, yes, I have spent time with schizophrenic individuals. But the medical diagnosis and treatment is useful and even essential because the schizophrenic experience is usually very destructive to the person’s ordinary life. Brian Sisler killed himself, remember. He lived in squalor in a hut. When I tried to use his bathroom once, it was filthy and I had to leave after a few seconds because I was about to vomit.
The FOF has no idea how to deal with students who are mentally ill. The only recommendation is “keep taking the pills” which isn’t bad advice, but is somewhat limited, especially as most mentally ill people stop taking their medication from time to time. If a student has a psychotic episode, the FOF treatment is a leave of absence, i.e. temporary expulsion, come back when you’re better. If the student is in Isis, he or she is either sent home, or sent to Eth_n to get more pills. Once the student is put on leave, Ph_l_p L_c_s says, “Yep, the guy’s crazy alright” and everyone involved with security or legality becomes very concerned about not letting the poor guy onto the property in case he wants to visit Robert. There are at least a couple of breakdowns each year at Isis, and additional ones in the centers. Worst of all, Robert has had sex and continues to have sex with men who have mental illness problems—vulnerable men with bipolar disorders, schitzophrenia, or histories of depression. The FOF culture which encourages conscious spiritual ambition, reading of shocks, work against feminine dominance, can easily be used to justify objectification of psychotic states. Br_an T_mn_y was a good example of this.
20 and 45 are newly moderated.
Leaving the Asylum
The metal harps of the high gates
make a clangorous music
closing behind me. They
announce the “new life” of freedom
and only a battered valise
to lug down this alley of poplars.
I repeat the litany of the poem
that released me. Hollow tree
though I am, these things I cherish:
the hum of my blood, busily safe
in its hive of being; the delicate
oily kiss my fingertips give
each thing they touch; and desire,
a huge fish I drag with me
through the wilderness:
I love its glint among the dust and stones.
Gregory Orr
Thanks Critical Mass for 46.
About a year ago some of us, while still in the FoF, were at an Adyashanti meeting when a lady stood up to ask a question and gradually became more and more hysterical until I personally began to feel intense fear and to worry that an ambulance would have to be called. She was undergoing psychological meltdown right before our eyes.
Adyashanti slowly and calmly talked her down, so that ten minutes later she was quiet, peaceful and grateful. It was a virtuoso performance.
I’m not advocating Adyashanti as “the be all and end all”. just contrasting his abilities as a “teacher” and human being with those of Robert Burton. If something like this started to happen at a Galleria meeting the person would be immediately hustled out. We were very impressed by the way Adyashanti handled this. Also anyone there could ask any question they liked and he was able to answer them all in an illuminating way – so open and creative compared with the sterility of FoF meetings.
RN
On the question of madness and/or squizofrenia.
Working with Dorothy it became obvious that the more she was kept inside her room, the more she lost contact with those around her and herself. Even just being able to move from room to room, helped her to focus.
The most healing I ever observed in her was during the time that I took her food shopping, ice cream eating and even to lunch in restaurants. She pulled herself together and behaved like a perfect english lady then held that state for about three days.
The speech therapy Agnes L. did with her also helped her immensely.
What I would be interested in exploring together is the particular psychosis that is being developed in the fellowship conditioned by the form.
I was much surprised reading about Philip L’s. activity with the crazy ones as a security manager because in recent times Philip is one of the stars at Isis, travelling to centers with his great angles and a smile from ear to ear. A smile like Abraham’s, Ellen P’s. , and Thomas’.
I have nothing against their feeling happy and would even acknowledge that they’ve managed to transform or give enough of a blind eye to the world around them to be living an altered state but it doesn’t stop surprising me that it should be so relevant in Philip L. and Abraham because as long fellowship members and in considerably significant roles, it is as if they had to prove to themselves and others that they have gained something that can justify all that they’ve done against other students because there was something to gain from following Robert and they themselves are proof of it.
But I wonder to what extent this is true about them at all times or do they turn into something quite different in private, or with their wives, children or intimate connections because it would not surprise me at all if they too have developed two distinct personalities, one that controls people for Robert’s status quo and another one who “awakens” and justifies the other’s abuse.
They both have a “beautiful” act, at least in public. Few students were as warm as Abraham with me, with the exception of the time I questioned Robert and Philip was giving brilliant angles before I left.
In Helen’s case I would say she had a particular talent for madness of her own (I should be able to recognize this things!) and the consistent discrepancies have slowly shut up the pain and put her in an ever smiling condition, a permanent buffering condition.
Paradoxically, Girard’s act in events is pretty well leveled. In spontaneous interchanges with students he does not keep eye contact, he has great difficulty acknowledging anyone, unless it is a young woman or old contact and never has time for any one so he’ll keep looking at his watch consistently to let you know that you’re taking too much of his time. He has not developed this “ecstatic” act…….yet, although he hints that he has awaken a part of himself while the lower self remains the same.
What I am trying to work on and understand is the different aspects of our lives that run so wildly against each other without balance, keeping in mind the individual, the family and the community as a map-structure to guide ourselves.
I personally think we are all terribly unbalanced, all have huge areas to work on and all need enormous help. I also think each one of us has something wonderful and unique to offer, including Robert. Not that I would stop his going to jail.
“Mad”, is the position of any one that does not fit the status quo of a particular community and there are plenty of those everywhere. From the individual’s position though, one’s own madness becomes extreme when one’s impulse is thwarted so extremely by the community that one belongs to, that one indeed believes and develops one’s madness. The depression, the lack of contact, take control, and one’s acts consistently confirm the madness.
A community can heal or worsen the level of madness of any individual.
Is this not the case of the Fellowship of Friends? I have no doubt Robert has a great deal of lunatic but the community, instead of controlling and channelling him, adapted to each one of his whims, bent and accepted the deal at its own cost and then each individual had to adapt his own particular madness to his.
I think it was a dual game and am far from believing it was conscious or intentional, it happened to all of them. Robert adapted to his follower’s and his followers to his, all the time singing to each other that they were remembering themselves.
Amongst the men, the macho stereotype became stronger, so strong that infrasex has become common ground and amongst the women, the second hand female role, became stronger, developing perfect unmarried executives and hard working housewives without a saying on what is going on.
The adults lost position as people to address with more experience because it is being given to the young and inexperienced who can handle the deal with a lot less concern backed up by Robert against no matter what adult and they all work indiscriminately to support the sex making machine that Robert’s madness demands.
The “beautiful” act in public is very interesting because we are all forced to have at least a fairly decent act in public, in community. This feminine dominance that pushes individuals to act normally at least in public is in itself a very significant force and it was used by Robert in the fellowship upside down and backwards to make students accept all his behavior although there was absolutely nothing lawful about it in terms of living in a community that students were paying for….. to not belong to.
There’s about as much madness in each student in the fellowship as any mental institution could hope for.
Random responses to different stimuli :
When I was on the road a person who heard “voices” invited me to live with him. His sister was in charge of his life. Paying the bills, washing his clothes and keeping doctor’s appointments.
I finally moved out but kept in touch. One winter I ran into him and asked where he was going. He told me to the drug store for medicine and that he had set his apartment on fire. He did.
I was worried about his 90 plus year old landlady who lived downstairs in the two story wooden framed building. We caught it before it spread. The oak floors were turned into charcoal. He had lit a gas heater that was partially stopped up. When it did light it scared him. So, he threw a throw rug on it and walked away.
Other than that he was fun to be around. I almost made it to his death bed but that’s another story.
About Christianity: Somebody said that Christianity would be something good if it were ever put into practice. Isnt that a ditto for the Gurdjieff/Ouspensky “system” of teaching esoteric Christianity? I believe Nicoll said Lao Tsu was the 4th Way. And, I believe Rodney Collin said the 4th Way was the most complete truth. Because everything could be found in it.
It is my understanding that when “fires” start in California forest Rangers start what’s called I believe “back” fires. To fight fire with fire? I think somebody has stared a fire, but who?
Sorry, that should read, “I think somebody has STARTED a fire, but who?
Dear Friends,
Some news… The blog has reached the first page when doing a Google search for “Fellowship of Friends.”
Although many have expressed concern about the wikipedia article being a source of propaganda for the Fellowship and Robert Burton, websites with negative information about the Fellowship continue to dominate all Google searches — whether it’s “Fellowship of Friends”, “Robert Burton”, or “Robert Earl Burton.”
Warm regards,
Search Results
From 1(6) 558 Life person (great post, by the way)
After months of periodically reading and contributing to the blog, what most amazes me is the enormity of the disconnect between what is observed and what some people choose to believe.
This reminded me of a passage by U. Eco in “Baudolino”:
“Master Niketas, the problem of my life is that I’ve always confused what I saw with what I wanted to see.”
“That happens to many people”
“Yes, but with me, whenever I said I saw this, or I found this letter that says thus or so (and maybe I’d written it myself), other people seem to have been waiting for that very thing. You know, Master Niketas, when you say something you have imagined, and others then say that’s exactly how it is, you end up believing it yourself…”
I tried to get into the mood of offering more DIRECT Rushkin, but since I suffer from a ‘mood disorder’, I cannot get in the ‘mood’. I offer from the manic – depressive Irishman, Spike Milligan who made his living out of high-performances “I know I’m f***ing mad. It’s just that they tried to make me ashamed of it”. Robert actually said to an aspirant who asked “Would I awaken this lifetime?” : “No you are not crazy enough” (RB). Apply your declarations to yourself, Burton, or is there just a blank across the VDU, or do you go ’snake-eyes’ with greed. Retrack to a former sending………………………………………Nigel.
Talk to you tomorrow (GMT).n.
#51 Elena wrote:
“The adults lost position as people to address with more experience because it is being given to the young and inexperienced who can handle the deal with a lot less concern backed up by Robert against no matter what adult…”
Thank you for this perception, Elena. It is very true. I confess I’ve been there: young idiot, then adult, now simply ex-adult.
As an “adult” I used to rationalize the friction this caused me by remembering the parable about the last being first and the first being last. I tried to consider it work on my own vanity to accept the way very young, seemingly immature and frequently downright arrogant young people were being given so much power over our lives. It did not occur to me that it was all a setup.
Looking further back into the past, Robert gradually immasculated most of his wisest older students and effectively replaced them with “the keys”. Experience, unique personal understanding, what we called “being”, counts for very little today in the form and decision-making process of the FOF. Miles, Joel, Stella, Rosemary, Walter, Kristina…to name just a few, each had their shortcomings, magnified by the power bestowed on them as center director, octave leader, etc., but they also had a real voice, and served to balance and neutralize RB’s excesses if only by offering a counterpoint. Linda, Girard and others abdicated this important role, and have become enablers, permitters through silence. Little by little Robert has marginalized anyone who might potentially challenge him, distract his minions from devotion to his personality cult, or threaten his infrasex cabal.
Power in the FOF today mostly resides with the “dogs”: wagging their tails, baring their teeth (is it a smile or a snarl), licking YOUR plate in the Galleria kitchen as they bark together about how instinctive you were not to leave more, sniffing around the backside and humping whenever the opportunity arises. There are many breeds but a dog is a dog, whether Doberman or Poodle or King Charles Cavalier. Dogs run in packs, and they always know who the Big Dog is. The lead humper. The one who doesn’t even bother to growl anymore because no one else dares to tangle with him.
Of course, RB is also happy to use fools, but he does not expect as much from them. Fools are capable of learning from their folly and tend to run away after a while. Dogs are bred to follow. They work their way up through the pack, they sniff the ground a lot, they ponder over excrement, they guard their turf.
Funny that the apex of FOF evolution was after all simply to be a fool.
Joseph G
Not to overlook the mundane behind many behaviours.
Philip .L. only became ‘very active,travelling to centres and smiling’ after he seperated from his wife and was fancy free once more. I’ve seen him spluttering out work angles ten to the dozen onto a couple of young, attractive, former communist country refugees who hang around Isis.
Belated reply to N-ck Sp-ld-ngs offer to ‘Chill out with Simple truth and Fat boy over a beer at apollo’doro’
Thanks for the invite but I’ll decline. I’ll be watching though…..
I just read the Wikipedia article on FOF. It is so obvious that writers are trying very hard to make FOF look like religion. I guess now it is more useful for FOF to pose as a religion to keep it’s 501(c)(3) California non-profit church organization status.
Pathetic liars!!! It has NEVER EVER BEEN A RELIGION!
What happened to the whole “4th way school” that we all joined? Back then it was sold to us as a Conscious School quite opposite to a religion. What happened to the idea of not believing anything but verifying all for oneself?
Now it’s all of a sudden a church, a religion with belief system.
Please take a look for yourself. It’s simply disgusting.
“The Fellowship of Friends is a non-profit religious organization”
“…the aim of making its religious teachings and practices available in all parts of the world…”
“The Fellowship of Friends believes that God has many names”
“..the core of the Fellowship of Friends’ religious practice”
“It is the belief of the Fellowship of Friends…”
“The “Higher Self” is believed to be the real Self.” Etc, etc.
The word ‘believe’ is used prolifically through the whole article as of someone desperately tries to drive his point home: We are a religion! We are a church! We believe!
The article is packed with lies and distortions.
I am simply wondering: why so much lies and cover up is needed for something supposedly so true and great? What is there to hide?
Dear current members how do you feel about all this wiggling, changing and twisting facts by a conscious school and it’s leader? How do you justify to yourself the lying that’s constantly going on and this changing colors like a chameleon?
HOW DOES IT FEEL TO YOU TO BE A PART OF A LIE???
#56 Joseph G.
The great Frank Zappa wrote:
“The Meek shall inherit nothing.”
The line is from a song about evangelical churches and ministers.
Purchase Awakening (58)
Of course the Fellowship and its devotees never had any compunction about lying and deceit, especially if it was to mere ‘life people’. The basic principle seemed to be something like “Our aim requires so and so, and we will do whatever it takes to get it. If ‘life people’ are harmed or deceived in the process, well, that’s just too bad, but it doesn’t matter because, after all, they’re just life people, etc.”
I’m sure this same principle is used to justify the deception of the various government authorities who might try to investigate the Fellowship’s non-profit status, etc.
I even know of instances in which students stole from or took advantage of fellow students, probably because they were so financially desperate due to the onerous teaching payments.
I also remember a lot of deception was used by the telemarketing salesmen who were hawking Renaissance wine (usually to gullible old people).
During the run up to 1998 and ‘the Fall of California’, all kinds of dishonest scheming and maneuvering was going on in an attempt to cash in on the big disaster. All kinds of expensive items were borrowed or bought on credit right before it was supposed to happen, with the expectation that when it did, all that stuff would belong to the Fellowship. After all, those poor ‘life’ bastards would be out there under ocean somewhere, right? Weren’t we just so fucking smug about it too? Of course, it all back fired when the prediction didn’t come true and all of it had to be returned.
On that same subject, I remember some students getting all excited about how they would need to arm themselves against the desperate local population who would not be prepared for the disaster. You know, “We might have to kill some of those life scumbags if they come around here trying to interfere with us building our Ark!”
Robert seemed to always like to whip up that “Us against Life” hysteria. And a lot of the students really ate it up.
Hello Elena ~
You wrote ~
“But I wonder to what extent this is true about them at all times or do they turn into something quite different in private, or with their wives, children or intimate connections because it would not surprise me at all if they too have developed two distinct personalities, one that controls people for Robert’s status quo and another one who “awakens” and justifies the other’s abuse.
They both have a “beautiful” act, at least in public. Few students were as warm as Abraham with me, with the exception of the time I questioned Robert and Philip was giving brilliant angles before I left.”
____________________________
Actually, they’ve developed three distinct personalities;
1) Confused, very touchy, irritable around the idea of total self responsibility without external target to blame or imitate; don’t like the idea of transforming the inner child from ‘pet’ to ‘person’.
2) Sure, ready to talk oneself out and into new possibilities; career persona, the ‘I am sure I am confused’ one within, the ‘I can’t remember myself enough’ voice who does not like to talk about loosing True Personality as a recipe book and sunglasses.
3) Present, (true personality thought form-body-I); the worker bee, the expectation, the ‘I am going to get this by doing that’ struggler-I, the ‘I am because of that having been my effort’, ‘I did that therefore I am today for yesterday was.’ Or ‘I need to go there’ to know I exist by hearing my footsteps proceeding oneanother. The, ‘I am a student therefore I am destined to graduate’ (by default).
___________
The insanity arrives, (at least the sort I experience) when there is no form to hold one’s presence, no reference, no target, no conflict-partner or ‘Us & Them’ ritualistic dances;
yet this is intentional insanity, the sort that we can ‘do’ with, it’s not the sort that must be loved and handled with great care, this too is within us, like a seed, to me it’s our outer fringes, the edges of our being, unfinished, ever reaching due to our love of curiosity and becoming.
So much talk for the Fellowship of Friends; beautiful nests and no time to sit on the eggs.
Yes, it’s the ‘truth’, “two distinct personalities” so far as the thought forms ’students’ have identified their presence ‘into’ and ‘out of’…
The beauty is that we are being born, that the insanity is our normal material to work with, it is the mittens our love wears as we stand to un-thaw oceans of frozen possibilities and applications of our conscious individuality; even if it’s simply to lay down and stare into a dandelion’s yet to be un-spun orb of seeds… (and I don’t mean the cat and mouse staring BTW)…
Beautiful post… Thank you.
___________
l.t.y.a.
Hello Fat Boy ~
~ A NOTICE FOR YOU ~
Not sure how it is that the post didn’t make it on the sheik’s mediated list back in PART 16…
Post #402/16 may or may not have made it to your desk.
Take care
________
:)
Frank Zappa he is the famous somebody I could’nt remember who told his 14 year daughter (moon?) that if anybody came toward her carrying a bible to turn and run like hell.
Now if somebody would name the rock band who had the line, “show me what love is”.
To the little girls at I’s I’s: If somebody comes toward you at “church” carrying a bible and saying, “let me show you what love is”. Start screaming!!.
63 arthur
Do you mean the Randy Newman song:
You Can Leave Your Hat On?
Baby take off your coat
Real slow
Take off your shoes
I’ll take off your shoes
Baby take off your dress
Yes, yes, yes
You can leave your hat on
You can leave your hat on
You can leave your hat on
Go over there, turn on the light
Hey, all the lights
Come over here, stand on that chair
Yeah, that’s right
Raise your arms up in the air
Now shake ‘em
You give me reason to live
You give me reason to live
You give me reason to live
You give me reason to live
Sweet darling, (you can leave your hat on)
You can leave your hat on
Baby, (you can leave your hat on)
You can leave your hat on
(You can leave your hat on)
(You can leave your hat on)
Suspicious minds are talkin’
They’re tryin’ to tear us apart
They don’t believe in this love of mine
They don’t know what love is
They don’t know what love is
They don’t know what love is
They don’t know what love is
Yeah, I know what love is
There ain’t no way
(You can leave your hat on)
You can leave your hat on
(You can leave your hat on)
Give me the reason to live
(You can leave your hat on)
You can leave your hat on
Hello All.
Mental illness. There are such fine lines drawn. Some can cope with depression without medication, while some seem to need it.
Schizophrenia is, of course, a very serious mental illness.
Still, it’s tough to measure “mental illness” or insanity. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), attempts to do so. (It’s available online. See the section on pathological narcissistic mental disorder.)
I would not accuse any of extreme mental illness for joining the fellowship, but I think the lines are very fine.
I definitely consider myself to have been somewhat “mentally ill” for having chosen to join the fellowship.
The placid smiles are so unnerving and manipulative, false and look “medicated”. I saw that face and probably looked that way. (Admittedly, I tend to be a big laugher and had a hard time maintaining my compliant fellowship poker face.)
The delusion of grandeur involved in truly believing that I was “chosen” above billions is awesome and indicates that I was “mentally ill” during that time.
Life Person (6-558) said:
“After months of periodically reading and contributing to the blog, what amazes me is the enormity of the disconnect between what is observed and what some people choose to
believe.”
Isn’t that a form of madness?
As I said before, I clearly assign a certain lunacy to my own participation and willingness to join a cult.
I clearly remember having a clear disconnect between my intuitive feelings about what I observed in the Fellowship and my beliefs. That was constant and was encouraged.
Most obviously, that was a clear feeling when I was informed of Robert’s sex stuff and was basically told that I was a moralistic prude if I though it was wrong because he was way above me.
That was only the most obvious layer. There were deep levels at which I just didn’t believe my perceptions as an intelligent, sensitive human being and, in lieu, chose to, insanely, believe in a big time fraud.
In other words, I disconnected from my deepest intelligence and, in essence, my true self, which is not only the antithesis of achieving presence, it is also extremely unhealthy. I think it qualifies as mental illness.
Perhaps the most obvious manifestation of insanity is turning away from family. I am extremely close to my mother and with good reason. She is a very wise human being who has nurtured me forever. The memory of hiding that life from her is ridiculous and, from this vantage point, I was out of my mind.
LL
Dear LL (pronouned in Wales with a th-and-l together uttered – almost as difficult as learning Polish – the other scramble-code language used during WWII to confuse enemy tactics),
I empathise with your writing above. Essence (the reality of your being) feels really strong from you. Gurdjieff remarked that ‘all work in the Great Work – no form will hold – begins with Essence – sound a do- and work up to I AM-and-can-Do – “I can always speak to someone who can do something well” (GIG). My mother taught me all the noble virtues which I now carry as the Olympic Torch of my personal work (of course, I rebelled – the School of FOF was the big one – “Don’t be sidetracked” she said when I told her I had come across it. Trouble is I had to be flushed through the camp of the enemy OPPOSER – “I opened doors, they walked straight through them; called me their friend, I hardly knew them” – CHESS (Rice, Ulvaeus, Andersson).
Awakening comes in waves “You are many times dying and being born” Ramirez/Connery in ‘Highlander’ until you reach Nirvana (didn’t they do Lithium – the staple drug that combined with Clopixyl – a muscle relaxant – caused my alimentary (Watson) system so many problems – “Now the drugs don’t work, they just make you worse”). My personal permanent Awakened State of Eternal Vigilance was on
25 – 07 – 2007
If you want proof of this do not argue or ‘quibble’ by this site but meet me in person – see how I operate (“You need a system to awake – it need not be this system – but you need a system” – Ouspensky)……..
“Come close, that no more blinded by man’s fate,
I find under the boughs of Love and Hate,
In all poor foolish things that last a day,
Eternal beauty wandering on her way”
I am easy to be found by True Seekers (the Irish have ‘cracked’/craiched the Highway Code – I can teach you by pavement tactics)
Trust me, I know what I’m doing….Nigey Beefyburger.
16/558 Life Person
Spot on, and pretty funny to boot. Thanks.
16/520 Anna
Thank you for an astonishingly good piece of writing. You have given us a gift. Your writing has a light, refreshing and authentic tone that is quite attractive. You have described your experiences in a distinct voice that resonates with hard-won perspective and honesty. It is certainly in my opinion one of the very best pieces on the entire blog.
I have had experiences similar to the one you had with TH. Years ago, when teaching a course called “Introduction to Gurdjieff’s Fourth Way” at the New York Open Center, and trying to bring practical exercises that would illustrate the topics, as well as putting a lot of emotional energy into my presentation (it was a 7 week course, as I recall), a young woman “broke” with our consensus reality into a different state. Of course, even as a “big mucky-muck” in the FoF, I had no idea what was going on, no idea of how to help the poor woman, no way to answer the questions from her anxious family, and not enough sense to quit doing what I was so proud to be doing.
There are numerous stories of people “waking up” quite without any cause at all, just out of the blue. Even for the people who manage to survive, there’s usually a period of about 3 years during which they are learning to integrate the higher consciousness with their ordinary, functional awareness.
Leaving the FoF is also a major undertaking for some people, and the layers of influence go deep, sometimes taking years (in my case) to reveal themselves, to be seen for the relics they are. The process is ongoing, but the opportunity to heal through the interactions on the blog seems to really root out a lot of the old stuff, or to stir it up so it’s visible and can be understood in a new way, from a more benign, forgiving and wiser perspective. But it does take time.
Thanks again for the time and energy you put into your story. I agree that it should be circulated as widely as possible (along with Life Person’s!) to current inmates.
JoelF
Unoanimo.
Well done! You surfed the moon and struck a huge RIL. Do. Thanks for the effort. Cy.
A Former Student [#25 & 26] and [#34]
Rhino Neal #[32]
Thanks for the input. Believe it or not, we are on the same track. I do understand the difference between the Fourth Way (as we have received it under RB’s tutelage) and Advaita. Advaita is like turning one’s understanding around 180 degrees (from being Bass Ackwards), with a huge and deep purge of formatory mind. It is exhilarating. It is the Truth. Strangely enough, after reading Nisargadatta, it is possible to read Rumi, Walt Whitman, Meher Baba, etc.. and finally realize that they are all saying the same thing, speaking of experiences/understandings from an awakened (Universal) Self. It seems as though that is what G and O meant too, but our interpretation has simply been less than perfect.
My take on it – and suggestion – is to gently offer that kind of understanding and perspective to current students. The blog raises most current student’s radar, but Rumi, Whitman, Meher Baba with a little seasoning from N. do not. From there, it doesn’t take much for anyone who is exhilarated by such revelatory understanding to realize that RB is not really speaking from that place. He covers himself with quotes, but it is hard to find him speaking from his own understanding. And when he does, the understanding he offers to us is so deeply entrenched in a fundamentalist duality, that only a crystallized devotee can miss seeing the shining, loving, higher truth beginning to emerge.
Most posters on this blog are interested in getting the truth out there about Robert Burton. Please don’t misunderstand me, I support this effort wholeheartedly, I’m just working underground from the other side of the fence. There is the triad of Destruction/Elimination and that of Healing – most of what the posts here are about. But there is also Regeneration. What our School is supposed to be engendering? So, from my experience and perspective, the “inner circle” students I know won’t budge because they have their verifications of Higher Centers. How to free up someone like that? Deepen their understanding.
***********************************************
Yesterday’s meeting:
A small to mid sized center, away from Isis. Some students have read some of Nisargadatta, some not. One director to whom we had introduced N. to a few weeks previously, asked my friend to lead a “free” meeting. My friend selected about 7 – 8 quotes just to get us started, from Rumi,Whitman, Meher Baba and Nisargadatta. The quotes centered around the experience/understanding of a non-dual Self. Quotes were read, but conversation, questions were encouraged. My friend who had been studying these ideas for almost one year, was able to offer deep understanding. It was a very emotional meeting. By the end, many of us had tears in our eyes.
After the meeting we were able to share the books we have from Nisargadatta, not only “I Am That”, but the three books edited by Jeanne Dunn of his dialogues at the end of his life, as he continued teaching seemingly unabated despite throat cancer. Priceless. Much later in the afternoon, we had a more intimate conversation with one director. We were able to point out to her in clear, simple and non-confrontational terms the difference between what real awakening could be and who or what Robert Burton is. The difference was pretty obvious.
I invite other students all over the world to try similar efforts? One way or another the bubble will burst?
Love,
Bass
Good Morning Cyclops ~
What a “RIL” ?
:.P
hi uno.
short form of Res ipsa loquitur. sounds like a real.
A huge Res Ipsa Loquitor. Do.
lty Cy.
Bruce #64 Nope! I must change radio stations. It’s one of my favorite “inspirational songs”. Forgive me. I dont own a TV and I just discovered CD’s about a year ago. Never owned a record player, never bought a record, that I can remember. Oh, I did record on tapes “New Age or World Beat” music until they quit playing them on the local PBS radio station. They started gathering dust and out the many-many went. This computer can’t do You-Tube the sound is jerky and so is the video. Some of the other computer error is me—-self taught.
OOPS– I took “Music Appreciation” and had to buy an album.
Laughing Love #65: “Turning away from family” was like a bullet wizzing past my head.
Mr. GoldFinger: Now I want a $1,000 cash, a 1944 Lincoln convertible, a black thoroughbred race horse and a fine Panama hat.
Not only are there “Robert’s boys” but also “Robert’s girls”. This is a term used by the FOF HR department for wives and girlfriends of Robert’s boys. A number of these wives and girlfriends are on salary specifically to look after their children so that their husbands and partners do not have to be involved in childminding, and thus are available for Robert at the drop of a hat. Robert tells these women that looking after their children is their third line of work.
Dear Former Student,
I am glad you wrote in #34 what offends you about non-dualists.
Now I can see that we are arguing about the same thing – which is so common! Sometimes me and my boyfriend find ourselves in the middle of an argument, and then after a while one of us says: Wait. What’s you point? And suddenly we see that the point is exactly the same, but somehow we got into argument about it. Funny, right?
So, no reason to be offended. There is no conflict, really.
The idea is exactly NOT to look outside and not to follow anyone and only look within oneself. So we do agree here!
It all can be found only internally, because it is there, un-noticed and overlooked. It’s all about “Know Thyself”. (Not “Create thyself” or “Work on thyself” or “Buy thyself in this school” – simply “Know thyself”.) It is exactly the point that absolutely nothing is lacking! It needs to be known, recognized, by looking within oneself.
Nothing is lacking. It’s more that we’ve got some “extra” so to speak – our ego, or false personality – a mind structure that screws things up and distorts the beautiful natural picture. Non-dualism points straight right to the core of your being, and doesn’t promote more “efforts” and “working on ego”, since it’s exactly the ego that would be doing all the working under new fancy names: 4th way student, Steward, King of hearts, Higher Self, etc…
So, in a way Advaita is really good, good news! It cuts right through the mind’s crap and games and brings you to yourself.
I would add that it seem to be very helpful to many in and out FOF. People are deeply resonating with this simple message, especially after 20+ years of chasing their own tail, and many lives has been already changed profoundly because of that simple understanding.
Unoanimo: My apologies, I didn’t leave it out of my moderation list on purpose.
Re: 2b, 16/441
A noteworthy approach to Acceptance! Yes, we tend to resist the need for change, and this need may be just the thing we should accept a lot earlier. If you can treat this topic in more detail, please do so.
Perhaps we resist the need to change (in casu, the need to leave a group) because of the insistance in the Work, esp. in O’s books, of the immense value and rarity of school, of how easy we can loose it, of how we need the three lines, etc. (And this has of course been thickened with a triple layer of propaganda in the fof related to ‘only conscious school on earth’, who loses it is moon-food, and so on.) Not surprising that when we get an ‘I’ to leave the organization, we distrust it.
Is there a way to tell when to trust this ‘I’ and when not to? (Considering we might also get involved with other groups in the future…) I think we can find an answer in O’s ‘In search of the miraculous’. He gives there two examples of leaving the school: one for the wrong reasons, and one for the right reasons. In chapter 13 there is the story of two people who left their group for the wrong reasons – out of Inner Considering:
“Only two people dropped off who, exactly as though through some kind of magic as it seemed to us, suddenly ceased to understand anything and saw in everything that G. said misunderstanding on his part, and, on the part of the rest, a lack of, sympathy and feeling.
This attitude, at first mistrustful and suspicious and then openly hostile to almost all of us, coming from nobody knew where and full of strange and quite unexpected accusations, astonished us very much.
‘We made everything a secret’; we failed to tell them what G. had spoken of in their absence. We told tales about them to G., trying to make him distrust them. We recounted to him all talks with them, leading him constantly into error by distorting all the facts and striving to present everything in a false light. We had given G. wrong impressions about them, making him see everything far from as it was.
At the same time G. himself had “completely changed,” had become altogether different from what he used to be before, had become harsh, requiring, had lost all feeling and all interest for individual people, had ceased to demand the truth from people; that he preferred to have round him people such as were afraid to tell him the truth, who were hypocrites, who threw flowers at one another and at the same time spied on the others.
We were amazed at all these and similar talks. They brought with them immediately a kind of entirely new atmosphere which up to this time we had not had. And it was particularly strange because precisely at this time most of us were in a very emotional state and were particularly well disposed towards these two protesting members of our group. …”
In chapter 18 O. exposes the reasons for which he himself decided to part from G. These reasons had to do with the principles of Work (the principles explained in the beginning were no longer respected), with the change of the direction of the organization (from school to church), and with the change of specialty (from psychology, which suited O’s man nr. 3 make-up, to religion). By the way, O. also took a long time to accept his need for change – amicus G. sed magis amica veritas.
“But my personal position in G.’s work began to change. For a whole year something had been accumulating and I gradually began to see that there were many things I could not understand and that I had to go.
This may appear strange and unexpected after all I have written so far, but it had accumulated gradually. I wrote that I had for some time begun to separate G. and the ideas. I had no doubts about the ideas. On the contrary, the more I thought of them, the deeper I entered into them, the more I began to value them and realize their significance. But I began very strongly to doubt that it was possible for me, or even for the majority of our company, to continue to work under G.’s leadership.
[...] In regard to my relations with G. I saw clearly at that time that I had been mistaken about many things that I had ascribed to G. and that by staying with him now I should not be going in the same direction I went at the beginning. And I thought that all the members of our small group, with very few exceptions, were in the same or in a similar situation.
This was a very strange “observation” but it was absolutely a right one. I had nothing to say against G.’s methods except that they did not suit me. A very clear example came to my mind then. I had never had a negative attitude towards the “way of the monk,” to religious, mystical ways. At the same time I could never have thought for one moment that such a way was possible for me or suitable. And so, if after three years of work I perceived that G. was leading us in fact towards the way of religion, of the monastery, and required the observance of all religious forms and ceremonies, there would be of course a motive for disagreeing with this and for going away, even though at the risk of losing direct leadership. And certainly this would not, at the same time, mean that I considered the religious way a wrong way in general. It may even be a more correct way than my way but it is not my way.
The decision to leave G.’s work and leave him exacted from me a great inner struggle. I had built very much upon it and it was difficult for me now to reconstruct everything from the beginning. But there was nothing else to do. Of course, all that I had learned during those three years I retained. But a whole year passed by while I was going into all this and until I found it possible to continue to work in the same direction as G. but independently.”
——————
Re: Arthur, 16/448
:) :)
:)
——————
Re: WhaleRider, 16/505
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I have read it several times, and still busy digesting it… The experiences I had in mind when I asked the question are rather different from what you describe. Nevertheless, all that you said in connection to aim (and at 17/33 in relation to the 3 lines of work) made complete sense to me.
——————
Re: page 17, non-dualism
“You must remember that the Work teaches that Man was once in touch with Higher Centres but went to sleep. He once knew what to do directly but now, in this state of sleep, he can only get to where he was by indirect methods. All that is left now is change of mind. Change of mind starts the whole possible recovery. … The Work can teach a man to think in a new way.” (Nicoll, pp. 822, 962, 1014)
[ http://www.google.nl/books?id=1adQzHV_6mUC&pg=PA822&ots=lFikc6BItX&dq=outside+inauthor:maurice+inauthor:nicoll&sig=FMDSkNrNa_Rdgof4WYdwK9Pmlks#PPA1014,M1 ]
——————-
Re: page 17, permanent higher states
“We have moments in which things go right and moments in which things go wrong. The Pendulum of our psychology, of our emotions, of our general feelings, swings to and fro. But when the Pendulum swings back this should be surely a phase in which things are put in order, in which one consults oneself, in which one gets things arranged rightly and made ready before one goes forward again. You cannot expect always to be just the same. Yet how many people are disappointed when, having felt something, they find that for the time being they no longer feel it. Then of course they quarrel, feel bored and so on. In other words, the negative swing of the Pendulum for most people is simply a blank. But it should not be a blank. It should be a phase inhabited by consciousness and by a sense of the Work in which one collects oneself together again and reflects, and does not necessarily think that everything is over, at an end.” (Nicoll, p. 731)
Res Ipsa Loquitor
Thanks, uno!
You are indeed food, spicy, tasty and elaborate, and also true like bread and wine.
Respect!
Janna 74
Well said. Chasing one’s own tail is exactly what one is condemned to do in pseudo-schools like the FoF.
I have a story in relation to the recent discussion of schizophrenia and altered states of consciousness. My Holotropic Breathwork facilitator is a middle-aged lady who in her thirties experienced a sudden and full-blown kundalini awakening (evoked by shamanic practices).
I spare you the details, but basically she had been in a state that closely resembled a psychedelic trip for three months straight. After the energy subsided, she spend the next several years simply working on understanding what had happened and on rebuilding a functional relationship with herself and the world. She sold all her furniture and moved to a secluded house in the mountains, she went to Jungian therapy, she visited the famous American healer Barbara Brennan, she met Stanislav Grof who was able to frame her experience in a way that finally allowed her to make sense of it.
I was fascinated by the power and truthfulness of her story and have since read quite a bit on the subject of kundalini energy and awakening. The internet has a lot of information, and probably the most valuable is first-hand accounts. I discovered that kundalini awakening happens in quite a few people, of all walks of life. I have had a little taste of it myself, not nearly as powerful or extended as the one referred above, but enough to make approach this energy with a devotion mixed with fear.
One recurring question in my mind was this: how could I have been in a so-called spiritual school for ten years and never even heard of such states? We talked about conscious beings, but I had no idea that one could go through this, and that these were the symptoms, and these were the possible side-effects and so on.
I was amazed at my own ignorance about the sometimes brutal nature of awakening. The FoF has no practical teaching on this subject, and no practical advise is needed because hardly anything is happening. And when something does happen (was that your story, Janna?) it is definitely not appreciated. And it became clear to me that all the signs we took to be “The Teacher’s Consciousness” were simply a well-rehearsed act.
In fact Robert could have never lived through a real awakening and not desired to share it. It’s just too cool! He would have told us about the flashes of heat, the dissolving blockages, the tingling sensations…
Awakening is as much of the body as of the spirit, and Robert would have definitely noticed if something went on in that area. No, the poor boy could not even imagine a power higher than the one that turned his head towards signs when required and gently whispered in his ear how great he was. What he sold us is imaginary awakening of the head, while the body goes wild unnoticed in the unlit caves of the king of clubs.
Sick!
Anyway, here we are, maybe finally making sense too.
Love,
Laura
Hello Alice ~
For me, when I read about O leaving G I try to remember the other 7 letters in between (H,I,J,K,L,M,N) or ‘High-Jekyll-men’ (as we all are dealing with from within)…
Ouspensky, (I believe) had so many ‘right reasons’ to love Gurdjieff and G he, regardless of his ‘personality’: G gave him something that he could use without G’s reflection accompanying it in the mirror; O did the same for Rodney Collins…
Maybe I am a bit of a romantic in regards to those two, yet, somehow, G’s beginning with O, for me, is the most important; i.e., that he loved Ouspensky and did not compromise his (O’s) deeper essence levels (sexual humiliation for instance) to self aggrandize himself for being able to do so…
Robert Burton is possessed by a ruthlessly subjective ’spirit’ (we all babysit them from time to time); it walks in and out of him unchecked, unabated, insatiable…
There is no limit Robert Burton will not go to in order to convince himself that he is conscious and doing all this by the will of the gods… He has confused the dimension of magnetic bodies attached to the earth’s magnetic field with that of the conscious realm and it (in my opinion) has confused him too…
Yes, O left G, yet, I believe when they parted they both understood that it was absolutely necessary and in their hearts supported it, the rift… Yes, there was drama and back-biting, yet, I sense their conscience stayed in tact concerning it’s ‘right action’…
_______________________
l.t.y.a.
Bruce: I found the rock band. It’s Foreigner.
I think Rodney Collin said that the split between Gurdjieff and Ouspensky was right action and that they became two magnetic poles with Me dancing on the wires.
re Alice E. (76)
It’s true the quoted passages from In Search illustrate O.’s perspective that there exist “right” and “wrong” reasons for “leaving a school,” and that there are many who might benefit from considering whether a “right” reason exists for themselves at this time.
While starting your post by suggesting we have been unduly influenced by propaganda, however, you turn to one of the sources of the propaganda for assistance, and this, I submit, may not be helpful. I have valued In Search for decades, and it takes nothign away from what it offers to point out that representatives of the FoF power structure have used books such as In Search to justify whatever they want to justify, and members, past and present, have facilitated this by looking to such texts in very much the same way an evangelical might read into some passage in the Bible, or an adherent of any religion would find in one of the accepted revealed texts, whatever he wants to find.
The description of the two departing members of G.’s group was merely one person’s (and not the departing members’) recounting, in one book published many, many years ago, of some aspects of the circumstances surrounding the departure of two people from groups that presumably involved hundreds of people over a period of decades. There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of stories that could be told from hundreds of perspectives about why various people stopped working with G. or, for that matter, O. Similarly, we may want to take O.’s word for his reasons for leaving, and assume that O. had a “good” reason to leave, because he was O., but we might not want to go down the road of thinking in that way.
If people want to deal with what to do about finding themselves in a questionable situation, they might want to stop thinking about their situation in the manner suggested by the FoF or the texts on which it supposedly was based, and start listening to themselves. After all, if we start thinking that “if O. left, so can I,” we become susceptible to the obvious next stay-in-the-Fellowship-until-you-die thought: I am not O, and I should not model my behavior on what someone of his exhalted level may have done. RB is one step ahead in having made himself the arbiter not only of who is, and is not, “conscious” (another makey-uppy term), but also of who has any possibility of becoming “conscious” in this lifetime. So all the angles–and exits–are covered if one is unable to trust oneself, even if it appears to contradict every “work book.”
We invest a few sentences in a “work book” with an extraordinary, and unwarranted, degree of significance because we want so badly to have guidance from some presumed authority, and do not trust our own judgment. The whole concept of “losing a school” is based on a few passages from O.’s writings that have been repeated breathlessly down through the years, by Collin (an apparently well-intentioned man who also had a penchant for seeing everything through the lens of a few concepts he learned from O., and who eventually preferred the antithesis of critical thinking, Roman Catholicism); and Burton, as though they express an unassailable truth that there exist such things as “conscious schools” that one may “lose” and, as a result, suffer disastrous consequences.
Although past and present FoF members may like to fancy themselves “intellectuals,” there is nothing intellectual (in the positive sense of the term) about this approach; it’s no different from any faith-based fundamentalism. The Catholic Church has taught for many centuries that it is the One True Church; I hear the current pope has placed more emphasis on this than has been fashionable for some time. This is no different from any religion; a learned Jew or Muslim can easily find textual support for anything, and people have killed each other by the thousands in the firm belief that their popes and their revealed texts are more trustworthy than anyone else’s.
How is this different from believing the concept of a “conscious school” (let alone the “only conscious school”) that one may “lose” and therefore suffer the pains of hell or whatnot?
There is one difference: We belong(ed) to the FoF, so we want to believe that it is different, because we want to believe we are different. One reason the FoF has persisted for so long is the inexhaustable desire to believe RB’s statements that members are special because, and only so long as, they are members.
Dear 80 Life Person
Don’t ramble. Why are there 2 (two) Jokers in a complete pack. Because Shiva sends dialogue to Arjuna (male to male indicator and receptor overcoming male-male confrontation) in the mind.
O.K I have solved that twiddly-dee oh so popular ‘third states intermediary’ cr*p. Isn’t it nice to be in the moment altogether as a higher family. No more dreams to steal the (Blue) Thunder (good movie, recommended) of my objective states. You try working with the major-incovenience of manic-depression “Not that you could withstand the voice of GOD, far from it”
Anyway as I was saying what’s white and falls from the sky?
Answer – “The coming of the Lord” That will get me excommunicated from all formalist religions – I am not a number – I am a free man – I stand as 8, revolutionise as a 9 (Beatles Double White Album, I pay the debt I never promised, IO so off to work I go) 11, that is question now – answer it for your self in your own play, test my teaching; stay Eternally Vigilante (the awakened ONE in YOU all)
Burton and all other nothingnesses (the devil is another great fallen angel, the Chamois that was lost and is now found – oh you can’t elope with an antelope – he is now the mighty Welsh flag assistant – all games-plays require an opposition and if if you want an answer to that stupid Chinese paradoxical tripe about what is the sound of one hand clapping I get practical with the Answer – actually it is the sound of your back cracking as you twist your spine out of place -my personal Osteopath is Pauline (feminine of little one – Paul of the letters was the most misogynistic bastard one could imagine – I am a manly man and I like womenly Women – Only the Celtic traditon holds the aspiration of Woman Warrior Chieftain witness Boadiccea (Fabrizio my Awakened bus driver who has the stage-numbers memorised said I was correct with spelling). Katherine Jenkins is “our soul charge” see the engaement episode of Henry V. “The voice of a Goddess with a real down to earth attitude” Earth Bound deity – AVATARESS.
Be practical – expect a miracle! (Krishnamurti)
And as a parting shot – dirty Nigey-Squint Eastward”
Why can’t a Jew be a Morris Dancer.
Answerer – ” It takes a total prick to be a Morris Dancer”
I’ve shut down the system of phone communcation and gone AWOL/REMOTE (hue and cry – good album – recommended) from my ‘root of all evil’ life-family so that they can have a little chat with the psycho-twats about Making Plans for Nigel (XTC/ecstasy) – I kid ye not it is a music track. If you are all senses to receive stand by for
LINGUA FRANCA SUBSTANTIA. God have I got BALLS – I’m so humble I could s**t! Eliminate the clutter from your lives!
“Put your House In Order, that the King of Heaven my Enter Therein”
Anyone want to mess with the ABSOLUTE?
81–Nigel
I enjoy Life Person’s intelligent ramblings. Your posts are jumping all over the place.
80 Life Person
Right. Same thing is annoying about Jews.
And homosexuals, and black, and Republicans, and Democrats, and Christians, and Buddhists, and Muslims, and car mechanics, lawyers, nurses, old people and teenagers, Chinese, Germans, Russians, vegetarians, meat eaters, rich and poor, teachers, followers, idiots, Nobel laureates, critics, movie stars, natzis, communists, nobody-in-particulars and all the rest in between.
They ALL think they are Fucking Special !
I bet you do as well
You can bet that I do
As long as we put someone in a group of some sort, WE, and only WE, make them special.
Personally, I do not feel ’special’ just because I am in FOF.
I don’t care for being special. I care for the truth.
What you present is just a reason to be irritated with someone else, by thinking that they should not be any more special then ME.
And please, don’t put me in the box with the label.
You don’t know me, and you probably do not know most of the people in FOF. But once you put them in a “FOF’ box, you can blame them all for all possible sins ever committed on this Earth.
Clever, but not true!
Thank you Joseph and Unoanimo for the feedback.
Hi Laura.
I think one of the great difficulties that we are facing is the fact that there are two sides to every coin. We can see everything that is questionable about Robert and call it into account but we cannot take away his own inner work or will. It is true about Girard and probably many of the other strong students.
It is why it was so difficult for so many of us to leave and for the many inside. From one angle, only in as much as students can extend their own conscience enough to embrace the totality of humanity, the totality of integrity, can one hold the horror of Robert’s acts in perspective.
When all that they can encompass is Robert himself with the fellowship as his creation, it is easy to become fascinated with the accomplishments. Insignificant as they are when looked at from the outside.
I have no doubt that Robert has had considerable high states as I have no doubt that I have had them. What I think is worth realizing is that although a large number of people may today have access to high states it does not necessarily mean that they are all that is required to become a leader of men, rather that we are all being able to access other states and it is how we bring the understanding of them down to the actual practice of our lives that matters.
The “gift” of “higher states” will not in any way replace the need to eat, move, feel or think, it will simply colour our acts in the way we can paint them with our will.
The fact or possibility that higher realms are pushing into this realm, for better or worse, as we have well verified with Robert, or even in the fact that no matter how much of those I’ve tasted, I can very well come down into deep and dangerous depressions if I don’t have enough will to watch out. To me, it is because, no matter how much they are willing to help us, they will never be able to do for us what we need to do for ourselves, just like any parent with a child.
They might come down and tell us, “Hey, you’re all one, look after yourselves”, but we continue to treat each other as if we were perfect strangers!
Earth to Nigel…earth to Nigel.. come in? If you can hear me – throw about a dozen sandbags into that balloon basket and let out some more hot air… can you hear me?
Oh my god, I think he’s gone!
No way, really?
Yeah, maybe. You got any extra sandbags we could take up to him- if he heard us?
Yeah, plenty. Hundreds of em.
Elena (83)
“[W]e cannot take away his own inner work or will.”
Sure we can.
First, since it’s his “inner” work, perhaps you might set aside the urge to imagine you have verified it.
Second, consider the implications of attributing “inner work” and “will” to someone incapable of acting like a decent person–not a “conscious being,” not an “angel,” just a decent human being, who with some consistency treats others as he would like to be treated, for no reason other than it’s the way mature people act.
If meatloaf could only fly, mom and pop’s diners would have to have reverse magnetic foundations, trading places from time to time with Homeland Security;
In a conscious world, old folks homes would be burnt to the ground (exit old folks first); then extra pre-schools and day care centers built thereon; after of course Shaman’s re-blessed the putrid-negative-spirit-laden-saddened soil…
These ‘old folks’ would be (not hard pressed) to share their pent up love and wisdom, and nerves of steel & will with these ‘on the opposite end’ brother and sisters, while the adults learned from both and kept (for the most part) their mouths shut.
Nigel ~ I think you might be a long lost relative of mine; yet, aren’t we all?
Elena, you’re nearly right about that help thing, yet, certainly on this blog, although we’re “perfect strangers”, we’re not necessarily treating each other as such; not much to loose when what is lost is you (that’s my take on it)… Rumi longed to go home, yet, perhaps he found later that inside that longing ‘was’ home.
____________________________
l.t.y.a.
Screw the sandbags, crank up the helium… burst the bubble and fly.
:)
4 Critical Mass
Didn’t know we had hired a reporter?!
Did you get an increase in salary?
Or is it a part of your 3d line?
But seriously, do you not understand what the word church means?
From Wiki: “A church is an association of people who share a particular belief system.”
So, what all this fuss is about.
Here is how the Gov. understands what the church should be like:
“What constitutes a church under federal laws?”
http://www.legalzoom.com/articles/article_content/article14814.html
This the same issue that Sheik mentioned in 1(6) post 576 .
“…I personally don’t think that the government is very well informed in these issues. Their decisions on what should be legal and what not do not always make much sense. The only way that you can verify this is if you experiment a little bit yourself.”
And by the way, I am an expert on churches.
The one I (Jesus) started, is a great example.
It did some good, and some evil and a lot in between.
But at least it is now recognized by the government. :-)
LOL!
The “training” you mention is not so necessary.
God, Presence it is all the same if one had experienced it. Or, at least if a person can understand it logically.
On the other hand, if you want a foreigner to understand you, you have to learn their language.
But if you are a nationalist, you would say: “I do not want to learn any stupid language, have them learn our Great Language, if they want to understand Us!”
During the Cultural Revolution in China, if you’d say you don’t believe in the Communist Party, you would be shoot the same day.
But we are not in China, no, no, no.
American Gov. is the most enlightened and democratic Gov. in the whole Universe. It would see the difference between The True Church of Jesus Chris and his 40 disciples and some self made Lairs like Buddha, Mohamed, Meher Baba and others!!!
So, what is your point really!
Same applies to:
58 Purchasing awakening
Greetings Mr. Ryan O’Poo,
Thank you for your post. I appreciate the nudge. (I have certainly done my share.)
“There are no particles of consciousness, just one whole which “you” already are…The individuality you promote is a dream within consciousness as are you.”
Tell me:
Does not the raindrop require a speck of dust first…to transmigrate from spirit to form?
Is not every snowflake different, until they merge in the glorious sunlight?
Can anyone truly contest that from the ocean we were conceived and to the ocean we will return?
Isn’t the river both the cup of water I hold in my hand and all the water that ever flowed past its banks that I know I will never taste?
More nudges from you,
Dear Mr Ryan O’Poo!
I’d appreciate it greatly,
I most certainly do.
You made my day!
#88 Jésus:
Dear Jésus,
Are you friends with Juan? Did Juan start a church too?
Allons-y, mes freres et mes ami(e)s, ecoutez vous de Les Miserables (the complete musical), par Cameron Mackintosh (Gordon Cameron and I were Chorleywood cowboys, ensembles):
“And if you fall, like Lucifer fell, you fall in flames, for so it is wrtten and so it shall be, from the doors of Eternity, that those who fumble and those who fall, must pay the (PEARL OF GREAT) price, blatantly obvious is it not”
“Let those who have ears to hear, let them hear!” big JC.
And as to the remark by some argumentarian (cannot have time to scroll up to find out) about airship:
“Try R101 – my engineering Wallace side, Clydeside ship and airship builders, responsible for the safety of those who were killed (we do ‘Apollo’-gise; but all will be MADE UP!”
The book is “The Airman Who Would not Die” – a true-to-life story” – LIFE by its very nature is eternal – you cannot sell it to innocents.
Also John Craig ( power-feature Queen of Hearts – grown silver grey way beyond his years would tell) will inform you that I travelled to work by car (before a manic drunk car-crash) on Route 101 (where the Very Best of The Eagles – another album I am trying to buy budget-wise) DARE – he who dares wins – Special Air Services motto – I have attained my glider 3 circuit basic glider solos and contolled (not solo) a Chipmunk RAF trainer. By the way, if it were not for RAF Tornadoes, there would have been even more, USA overkill-splattering-mayhem all round in the first Iraq phase.
I would say when Burton is brought to trial, that we request castration and quarterising of the rectal orifice before locking him away for Eterntiy, giving him a DVD only-playable TV with his favourite film “Death in Venice”.
Yours truly Don Eternito (don – he who gives – not takes”)
Next sending more Rushkin forward-looking evangelistic visionary.
Section 1: (72 hour holding of the Mental Health Act – 72 is Burton death number -”Field of Dreams” This Years – the Godfather – dinosaur car year tag.
I know I was there when I watched it.
Get the IDEA of being present yet?
And if anyone gets the message through to Burton tell him he can do The Ultimate Sacrifice with my vine/crown handled blunt knife I gave him. WOW!
Here is some more Healing for you:
http://www.healingpainting.com/
this 18 min video is very interesting:
http://www.healingpainting.com/video/healingpaintingstory/healingpaintingstory.html
“I am Sorry
Please Forgive Me
I Love You
Thank You
God Bless”
And if you had missed my first post it is in 16-394
or-
http://fellowshipoffriends.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-16/#comment-4156
Hi Anna,
In regards to your story of Theo, you may want to read Jerry Wennstroms book ‘The Awakened Heart’.
Jerry, at the peak of his carreer as a established painter destroyed all his works, gave away all his possessions and money, and stepped out into the Void for the next 15 years. He had no choice, he was ‘called’ – and you don’t argue with that. There is no doubt in my mind that Theo will come back from the underworld sooner or later, he just needs to be left alone for a while.
Like you said ‘The search for it was the beginning and perhaps the end of all this’, and you – of all people – know T.S Eliott and ‘Burnt Norton’ better than anyone…
Best wishes
Alexis
Life Person,
We are not disagreeing. If Robert were forced to come down from the clouds he might get a better grip on himself than he has now but if it is his will to be dishonest we cannot take that away from him or the rest of the people that support him. You’re probably right. For someone who has not been moved by the dead in the fellowship, there’s little hope and yet the freedom to choose is there for all of us and assuming responsibility or bearing the consequences is also there for us. I personally think that we do each other a favor when we call each other’s attention before we move too far out into the wild. For someone like Robert who was so willing to restrict each of our centers so that we behaved more civilized, I don’t see what stops us from restricting his sex center so that he behaves more civilized and controls his greed. We’d be returning a much greater favor than he did for us!
Thanks Unoanimo, after all, depression is a negative emotion in which one’s self is not surfacing enough. We are strangers with ghost names on the blog, ghosts longing for communities that we’ve lost. Ghosts actualizing communities that we’ve never had. But the point that I was really trying to get to is that there are great highs and lows in each of us. Great qualities and weaknesses. There is no need to look at just one of the sides. One can look at both and still do what is necessary to shape or control the weakness, but if one forgets the quality, then there’s so much danger in damaging the whole. Like taking out a cancer without considering the rest of the patient.
Besides, that’s what one did and what the fellowship did. Black or white. Student or dead human being. Robert’s servant or worthless being. It all depends on where one starts from and the only place worth starting from is above because there’s nowhere to go if one cannot see anything but the weakness, in one’s self or the world around.
Another difficulty is letting go of the loved ones, for they were all loved no matter how they disappointed one. But let not the pain of surrendering them turn into bitterness. Yes, I’ve screamed and insulted perhaps, but I’ve loved too many people before the fellowship to not know that at some point one simply has to let them be and by that I don’t mean to not go ahead and try to stop what ever can be stopped with legal action, but the emotional side of it, also has to be taken care of. In fact, the sooner one takes care of the emotional aspect, the easier it is to take legal action.
90 dick moron
Jesus is Simple Truth. Don’t waste your breath.
93
Hummmm.
Bruce, I thought it was the awakening of Howard Carter, Asaf’s ‘Asaf’, if you know what I mean.
94
Could be too. Six of one…….
Dear Elena
Good healing stuff 92. I get really tired of the bickering and quibbling. Stay substantial. As Miyamoto Musashi stated in “Book of 5 Rings”
Go beyond love and grief; learn to serve humanity.
Yours…..Nigey-pooh, faithful and TRUE.
Bass Ackwards -69
“After the meeting we were able to share the books we have from Nisargadatta, not only “I Am That”, but the three books edited by Jeanne Dunn of his dialogues at the end of his life, as he continued teaching seemingly unabated despite throat cancer. ”
IMO anyone who is ill has nothing on anyone else. They lack even the rudiments of consciousness and have no license to teach anything to anyone. They are unable to transform negative emotions, thoughts, sensations or beliefs and IMO never have had. This was a big tip-off for me.
Dear Bass Ackwards #69
I have been reading your posts with great interest. It is clear you are a very intelligent person, who, sees that “the 4th way and the FoF ” no longer holds the facination it did when you first got in. There is maturity in your postings. Already a moving on.
You have come across advaita/non-duality, whatever you want to call, and something in it has touched something very deep in you that you RECOGNISE – recognise as truth and as your natural state. Good. Stay there.
Now comes the scarey part! Immeadiately the Ego grabs hold of the whole thing, takes the crystal clear water and starts to muddy it with concepts, fitting it into the 4th way, helping others, studying it, just like you did the 4th way- and by the time you are finished (give it a few more meetings of blah, blah, blah) and you will have a soup you will not be able to recognize let alone eat.
The scarier part is that maybe you are afraid of being nothing, no-one, not a special person, absolutely nothing. Maybe you are afraid of being quiet and looking inward, deeply, quietly. Maybe you are afraid of seeing no-one there.
At a very early stage, something in you has to recognize to either “throw the whole thing over”, and jump into the abyss (that is the only place where true freedom resides). Or you can play hide and seek with yourself for another 10,20, years. I have no idea who you are, male or female, or you age – just ask yourself the question – how much time do you have- maybe 50 years maybe 5 , maybe 2 weeks.
Is it really worth it? Another decade, maybe more of hide and seek!
If you have really read Nisargadatta, I mean really read him, then you will ask yourself some basic self inquiry questions.
If you have spent 20+ years in the FoF like I did, then knowledge is nothing new for you. And you must know by now, it is nothing you can attain. There is nothing you can discover and there is no understanding you can arrive at. You have already arrived. You were always there. It’s already completely present. You are it. Stop looking. You are THAT. What are you looking for?
A quote from Karl Renz (another advaita person resident in Germany)
” There are people who carry teachings by repeating same old words. These parrots, who maintain the traditional concepts, keep the misery alive. All teachings that state there is a way out of misery keep it going. They keep the conceptual process going so long that they become constipated.
Remember the one who spins, the spider is you. You are weaving this endless network of thoughts and forms. The moment will come when you tie so many knots in your brain that you may suddenly realize it’s impossible to ever undo them. The moment will come when you finally think: ” What’s the point of all this spinning? And who does the spinning anyway? Then you can give up trying and simply be still.”
Be well, and good luck.
Renald,
Are you using Robert’s laptop to write this stuff or are you Robert’s laptop… just wondering (?)
:.]
Bass,
The gist of it is ~ burn half of Nisargadatta and eat the other half and learn how to make really good Czechoslovakian meat pies and share them with as many vegetarians as possible.
;.)
Youknow
Didn`t mean to interupt your private club, sorry!
97-Renald
Gee, I sure hope you’re not a doctor.
Good morning Beauties!
On madness:
“There is a big difference between a mad man and me.
And it is that I am not mad…” Salvador Dali.
On changes:
Check with your friend Amygdala. He leaves in the oldest part of Brain’s City.
Gratitude.
Flying free
Your writing on non duality discourages me in terms of finding out more, it destroys a lot of valuble posts by others and pollutes the subject. You would better serve your currant beliefs by doing rather than talking. In my experience no one who writes so confidently and arrogantly, makes so many assumptions about what others need to do or what they think and feel is doing what you say and if you can’t do it why talk about it?
Those who transfer a formatory approach to a new belief system discourage me. It is not non duality but you finding something to substitute for your belief in the Fellowship that is discouraging. It is a wrong triad, wrong action but since in non-duality there is no scale and relativity no triads, octaves or processes there is nothing to discuss .
“If you have really read Nisargadatta, I mean really read him, then you will ask yourself some basic self inquiry questions.
Remember the one who spins, the spider is you. You are weaving this endless network of thoughts and forms. The moment will come when you tie so many knots in your brain that you may suddenly realize it’s impossible to ever undo them.”
Non dualists say there is no process yet then describe a process , no seperation yet define degree’s of seperation. There is no sleep to awaken from. To me this is sophism and meaningless. If you spoke of the importance and meaning this has for you I would accept that. Once you start making assumptions about others you are lying and apparantly do not see enough to know you are lying and why this introduces negative elements into the discussion.
If a non dualist approach is a valuble as you think treat it with the respect it deserves.
Re: Unoanimo, 17/78
Thank you for your reply, which brings clarity to a subject I haven’t sufficiently emphasized. Yes, I agree with what you say about the understanding between O. and G. (And with Arthur at 17/79.) Moreover, I think O’s stories in ISOTM are not ” my personal history, and just that”, but lessons for future Workers and future groups.
Since I never met r.e.b. I could not refer to him directly; so the perspective in 17/76 is simply that of a student or seeker who is likely to participate in at least one group during his or her life, and who wishes to act from the Work when taking decisions, esp. major ones such as leaving.
————————–
Re: Life Person, 17/80
Thank you for a powerful reply, Life Person. It offers a lot of food for thought.
Hell, I trusted my judgement to write what I had written, and there it comes, a storm of critique. :)
I think ‘trust your judgment’ is a slogan empty of content; it tends to fail us when we most need it…
Whenever we judge, we judge mostly by means of concepts and pictures that come to us from the past and from exogenous sources (from our life up to the moment of judgment, from other people, books, films, newspapers etc.)
Is everything that we judge correct?
The two people in ISOTM who left out of inner considering – ‘we’re not treated properly, they hate us, they keep secrets from us’ – had also trusted their judgment, (and they had no Work-book to refer to) and it was not right judgment.
I agree with you that the fof exhibits faith-based fundamentalism as appears from certain r.e.b. ideas and certain fof-members’ attitudes and patterns of belief.
It may even be like you say, that it is then not very helpful to turn for support to one of the sources of their propganda. In casu, ISOTM. Maybe not, but it’s the best I could come up with.
(Is the New Testament wrong because some people and churches have used it to justify various crimes? Is it right because others have used it as inspiration for masterpieces?)
A careful reading of ISOTM can reveal many differences from fof dogma. (And here it is where you are so right to claim that we often see not what is there but what we choose to believe. Which claim, by the way, also refutes your statement of ‘trusting one’s judgment’.)
Nowhere in ISOTM says G that one should stay in the group forever, that who leaves the scool is doomed, that there are many lifetimes etc. O himself left G. and started to teach on his own – how could he forbid that to others? O. refers to the religious teachings of hell and sin as gravely mistaken. O. and G. constantly emphasize the need for understanding and verification and critical spirit. The Fourth way is not the way of blind obedience, it is not the way of faith, and it is not the way of fear. When someone notices that fof moves away from the fourth way principles (and speaking here only in terms of the teaching, leaving aside r.e.b. personal behavior), than someone has to make a choice. And the principles are there, in ISOTM, to help one make that choice. (and thus help one stand against false authority)
For the rest, all I can say is that obviously my appreciation of ISOTM is different from yours, and that’s fine. I’m not trying to proselytize here, merely trying to think – and am grateful to you and all who offer their thoughts here, for it is all food for me to ponder. In the end, of course, the responsibility for what I choose to believe is my own, and that for what you choose to believe yours, and so on.
P.S. Something you said at 17/85 is so good, I couldn’t resist the temptation to copy-and-paste it here:
“Consider the implications of attributing “inner work” and “will” to someone incapable of acting like a decent person–not a “conscious being,” not an “angel,” just a decent human being, who with some consistency treats others as he would like to be treated, for no reason other than it’s the way mature people act.”
88 the idiot calling himself Jesus
Do you really that there are people outside of you sick club that believe in the opinion off someone calling himself Jesus an believes that a vain and lying sex maniac has a higher level of being?
You are where you belong: in the Fellowship of Fools.
Grief or not
Be or not
The sun is out
The clouds in competition
Not really.
Many of us need healing
we are all longing for something
Everybody has to find it out for him/herself
I need this blog to digest,
To come to a place in myself
That knows, feels, is.
I prefer support and kindness
Anna’s letter was a sharing
That is something that works for me
Are we all part of the ocean
Or are we the ocean?
Then is there no blame?
Is all as it is?
I do not know
I live the questions
and my live
And wish you all well.
Joe Rogans take on negativity and bullshit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evnrDrqGorQ
ltya cy.
83, 93 and 94 are newly moderated.
To # 107 A Former Student
You are absolutely right. I hesitated to write, but words are just that. Hard to express, and they are just words. I don’t take them seriously, and you shouldn’t either. Words, words, words. Where-ever , whatever anyone is doing is just right. After reading many writings from Bass Ackwards- I just had to say something. The person reminded me of Me, and the twistings in the wind.
Just an aside. I look back on my years in the FoF and find them a bit like a tragic-comedy. I can only laugh out loud now. Fit non-duality into the FoF – perish the thought!
Enough words -Over and out!
Elena 84
I have no doubt that Robert has had considerable high states as I have no doubt that I have had them. What I think is worth realizing is that although a large number of people may today have access to high states it does not necessarily mean that they are all that is required to become a leader of men, rather that we are all being able to access other states and it is how we bring the understanding of them down to the actual practice of our lives that matters.
The “gift” of “higher states” will not in any way replace the need to eat, move, feel or think, it will simply colour our acts in the way we can paint them with our will.
——-
Dear Elena, I agree with what you say above.
My point is that students of Robert always use his supposed higher consciousness and their states to justify their faith in him and his “peculiar” behaviour. When they have nothing reasonable left to say, their ultimate weapon is the classic “the lower cannot see the higher” routine.
What I find most suspicious, in this context, is the scarcity of information provided by Robert about what it means to live with his level of consciousness and how it has been achieved. The world is filled with teachings and personal accounts of higher states and encounters with the numinous. Some are very detailed, for example in Buddhist, Tantra and Yoga literature one can find amazingly sophisticated descriptions of the psycho-physical process of awakening and how the awakened mind functions. Mystics of all denominations have given us testimonies of their agonies and ecstasies. And when people who have had higher states without being connected to a teacher or system share what they went through, they tend to include a lot of physical as well as perceptual details of what they experienced.
In thirtysomething years of teaching, what has Robert really explained about the experience of becoming conscious and the nature of consciousness? What are the signs, the states, the powers, the modes of perceptions, the physical and metaphysical consequences?
What dangers and challenges await one?
Did the teacher ever offer any practical insights like the ones following? (taken from one in a myriad websites on the subject)
“Other goals include the restructuring of old patterns of behavior as values rapidly change. The excess energy that accompanies the intense emotional and sensory events needs to be directed and assimilated. The ego attachment to the heightened experiences along with feelings of superiority which leads to separation from the Oneness can be explored and released. Personal myths and archetypes can be analyzed as to the importance that they hold for the individual’s transformation. The fear that accompanies rapid personal transition must be confronted and embraced. The different aspects of the Shadow self must be acknowledged and integrated. A balancing between self love and love for others further reconstructs the personality into higher levels of consciousness.”
Not that I am aware of… only vague talk of angels, omens, going from one number to the next, C influence telling him this or that…
Hmmm… could it be that the blind is leading the blind?
“Consider the implications of attributing “inner work” and “will” to someone incapable of acting like a decent person–not a “conscious being,” not an “angel,” just a decent human being, who with some consistency treats others as he would like to be treated, for no reason other than it’s the way mature people act.”
_________________________________________________
If every current member of the Fellowship of Friends could read and sincerely consider this simple, uncomplicated observation from “Life Person” perhaps more would be able to see the truth and stop giving the time, energy and money to this man that enables him to continue in his corrupt and deceitful lifestyle.
It was a revelation to me when I looked at Robert Burton and realized in the depths of my being that he is not a decent person, not a good person or an honest person and had none of the virtues that I admire and would expect of someone who represents himself as a spiritual guide. He is not even a nice person. We told ourselves and each other many desperate lies in order to avoid letting this obvious fact about him penetrate our hearts. Continuing to do this is severely damaging to one’s character and conscience and I hope for every follower, no matter how entrenched in the dirty politics, administration and grasping for position, that they wake up to this before they have lost all possiblity of becoming a decent human being let alone spiritual growth.
Robert Burton regularly maxxes out his credit cards, and his personal bookkeeper, R_dney C_arter, continually has to deal with the credit card companies. This year Robert has been overspending so much that he can’t pay his cc bills at the end of each month. The Fellowship was partially audited late 2006, so it’s not quite as easy to redirect funds as it once was. The answer to this predicament? To get Al_s_nne, the most aggressive fundraiser, to phone a few of the wealthiest and most faithful longterm students and ask them to each donate $1000 towards a “gift” for Robert. When one of them, D_ana K, asked what the gift would be, she was told it was a gift, and that you don’t ask what your money is paying for if you’re giving a gift.
You may have noticed that the emails now request checks written to Robert Burton for the birthday, crystallization, anniversary of Isis gifts.and any other anniversaries that can be invented. In previous years, Robert graciously requested donations to the FOF special projects instead of personal gifts or personal money. Projects like the unbuilt bistro. I wonder where that money went.
Has it already been mentioned that when students pay in cash at potager lunches, that money is used to pay Robert’s boys when they take part in the more hardcore sex acts?
108 Alice E.
“A careful reading of ISOTM can reveal many differences from fof dogma. (And here it is where you are so right to claim that we often see not what is there but what we choose to believe. Which claim, by the way, also refutes your statement of ‘trusting one’s judgment’.)”
A book and something you experience yourself are 2 very different things.
Consider this, if RB or anyone else would write a book about FOF it would be different from what you or I experienced being in FOF.
Because of the different prospectives.
Same applies to O and ISOTM. WHY DO YOU THINK THAT WHAT HE WROTE IS COMPLETE AND OBJECTIVE?
And how can you compare a book with a real-life experiences?
You don’t consider ISOTM to be some sort of personal evolution bible, do you?
Otherwise, you just made it into a dogma.
107 A Former Student:
That was a very odd reaction you had to Flying Free 101. I know the lady who wrote 101 well and she really does live the words. I guess something in her way of writing pushed your buttons. If you could get beyond that reaction you’d see that what she wrote makes a lot of sense.
RN
Re: Who Knows, 17/108
I don’t take money from people to scare them to death in exchange with some half-baked theories and to throw eschatological anathemas on dissenters.
I am very aware that my opinion is just that – my opinion, and on this title it is offered in this forum; I don’t try to impose it on anyone, I don’t consider it objective and absolute truth. It’s a pity you didn’t bother to read that message till the end.
O. was right: negative emotions (in casu: your anger, or should I say righteous indignation, virtually splashing from the screen) are telling us lies and presenting only a part (and a deformed one at that) of reality. Your message is full of lies.
This non-dual stuff is all quite interesting. I spout off about it once and a while (a lot). I would even be bold enough to say I understand exactly what is being communicated, that I “get it”. The paragraph Laura quoted from the internet had a bunch of good stuff in it in my opinion.
I also agree whole heartedly with where A Former Student is coming from. It reminds me of what O. said about there being many descriptions in literature about the “4th state” of consciousness but few about “3rd state”.
Here we are in 2007 America (or 2007 wherever and if it is not America, lucky you) trying to find our way through life. Dealing with the financial realities and rampant materialism and all that stuff and also trying to keep our bearings in a “spiritual” world.
It is all well and good to say just “jump off” and “let go” and bravo to those who can do it and not get sent to the funny farm or prison-industrial complex.
Sometimes I can see quite clearly I am a “dream inside of me” and often return to the simple awareness of myself and at those times I wonder why there is a hell. But I don’t think at this time I am able to answer that question.
I think it has to do with transition (but then doesn’t everything) . It is not that our ego needs to be eliminated (can’t be in my opinion) and our conditioned and habitual selves somehow become uncondioned but the unconditioned in us awakens more and more in waves through time and it is a unique, solitary and difficult process. There are many parts of us that need to be “brought up to speed” and many bends and twists from the past that are hard to straighten. It may be we will have to walk with a limp for the rest of this life.
Thank you again to all for your stories and thoughts. Though, for me, there is the unpleasant taste of the fof language scattered throughout, still, for me, it has been an unexpextedly enlightening blog. Thank you all (and I mean all).
A special thanks to you Sheik!
120 Yesri Baba: “the unconditioned in us awakens more and more in waves through time and it is a unique, solitary and difficult process. There are many parts of us that need to be “brought up to speed” and many bends and twists from the past that are hard to straighten”
Isn’t this just the mind complicating things? The mind likes to think it’s moving in time and progress is being made (or not), but really there is no time, it’s all now. It’s a small shift in being to see that you and I and everyone else are nothing but awareness, which is already completely here, no progress or change necessary.
x RN
117
A good title for that book would be:
I Search of the Cash
Fragments of the Hidden Life of an Sex meniac
100 Renald: “IMO anyone who is ill has nothing on anyone else. They lack even the rudiments of consciousness and have no license to teach anything to anyone. They are unable to transform negative emotions, thoughts, sensations or beliefs and IMO never have had. This was a big tip-off for me.”
Thanks for the wackiest entry for a while! Did you do some kind of a survey to come to this conclusion?
RN
Critical Mass 116
Maybe it’s just a diarrhea?
Diarrhea- a condition in which feces are discharged from the bowels frequently and in a liquid form.
Sounds right.
Eat a hard boiled egg. Should help.
Hopefully it’s not cholera. That would be deadly.
To die (become identified, asleep) from dehydration (absence of love and detachment) is not very nice.
Alice E. 199
108 is your post, not mine. Be more attentive.
I did read your post till the end.
And what were you shouting about negative emotions?
125 refers to 119 not 199.
Sorry, Alice E.
122
it’s been written here.
Maybe we should rename the blog?
I have a different idea for a book.
“101 of mind masturbation” -Read the blog for practical examples.
‘Who Knows’ + ‘Jesus’ you both give a splendid example of the FOF at it’s finest.
Please keep sending reactions, and share your burlesque knowledge with us.
But for the shake of you ‘evolution’: does you teacher knows you are writing here? Probably not and knowing him he will not approve on it.
So you are not really in the FOF and not really out of it. You just don’t know what you want in life.
Hey Who Knows-
Go away! (bruce, help me out here)
Dear A Former Student:
I like this, from Nisargadatta. Maybe you will too.
Q: What you say goes beyond all experience. If it is not experience-able, why at all talk about it?
M: Consciousness is intermittent, full of gaps. Yet there is the continuity of identity. What is this sense of identity due to, if not to something beyond consciousness?
Q: If I am beyond the mind, how can I change myself?
M: Where is the need of changing anything? The mind is changing anyhow all the time. Look at your mind dispassionately; this is enough to calm it. When it is quiet, you can go beyond it. Do not keep it busy all the time. Stop it — and just be. If you give it rest, it will settle down and recover its purity and strength. Constant thinking makes it decay.
Q: If my true being is always with me, how is it that I am ignorant of it?
M: Because it is very subtle and your mind is gross, full of gross thoughts and feelings. Calm and clarify your mind and you will know yourself as you are.
Q: Do I need the mind to know myself?
M: You are beyond the mind, but you know with your mind. It is obvious that the extent, depth and character of knowledge depend on what instrument you use. Improve your instrument and your knowledge will improve.
Q: To know perfectly I need a perfect mind.
M: A quiet mind is all you need. All else will happen rightly, once your mind is quiet. As the sun on rising makes the world active, so does self-awareness affect changes in the mind. In the light of calm and steady self-awareness inner energies wake up and work miracles without any effort on your part.
Q: You mean to say that the greatest work is done by not working?
M: Exactly. Do understand that you are destined for enlightenment. Co-operate with your destiny, don’t go against it, don’t thwart it. Allow it to fulfill itself. All you have to do is to give attention to the obstacles created by the foolish mind.
Wiht love to all both in and out,
Joseph G
129 steve lang
Just another old asshole with a new name. Let them rant. Good for the blog, not good for the FOF.
128, 129
Thanks for letting me know.
Greatly appreciated.
Now keep you nose in your ass and don’t mumble.
And take Steve Lung with you.
What a beautiful people you are.
131
I hope I will not out-rant you guys.
You are Masters here.
Feel confident?
“rant |rant| verb [ intrans. ] speak or shout at length in a wild, impassioned way : he was still ranting on about the unfairness of it all.”
Unfairness of it all. Your melody.
124, Who Knows
I guess that you are trying to say that my postings are like diarrhea. It’s a bad choice of insult. You know that one of Robert’s sexual pleasures involves having young men shit on him, don’t you? What did you think the Ex-lax was for?
The same applies for calling the blog mental masturbation. Sometimes Robert just masturbates while he watches his boys fuck each other.
134
You were obviously present at such occasions and can personally witness?!
124: Who Knows
Are you saying that what was said about Robert by Critical Mass is not true? Or are you saying that they may be true but what happens to money in the FOF is not important?
I think many of us really want to understand what is true and what is not. I personally, am surprised by my incredible lack of curiosity for so long, regarding how my hard earned dollars are used, and how my teacher uses his time and resources to further the Fellowship. How could I buffer these questions for so long?
Your response, since it criticizes without addressing any of the statements made, does not help, but tends to reinforce the possibility that there is some truth to the allegations that Robert is not a good steward of FOF resources.
Does he NOT max out his credit cards?
Is it NOT true that he is unable to pay what he owes?
Is it NOT true that cash from Potoger’s goes to Robert’s Boys?
Is it NOT true that those asking where “Gift” money goes are told that it is none of their business?
And where did the money for the bistro go?
If you know anything about these questions then why not answer them directly? If you think that they are irrelevant towards understanding Robert, then why do you think that? If you don’t know anything then why not find out or let them stand so that someone who does know can help us to understand?
Many of us became tired of the Fellowship’s inability to be truthful about Robert – to try to honesly answer some of the allegations against him. Why not be more open and honest? Many of us felt that it was partly our role to support Robert which meant explaining his actions. But now we want to really understand. I remember a student being asked to leave for wanting to openly discuss such matters. Why all the paranoia and secrecy and negative responses to anyone that asks or tries to discuss it in the open? Robert’s level of consciousness and the way he manefests his accomplishments is important to every Fellowship member – afterall, he is defining their way of thinking, acting, and their tastes.
I personally believe that if the Fellowship is going to survive, it will need to openly and objectively address many issues which have been repeatedly raised and are made more public in this blog. This may mean accepting that there are some real problems in Robert’s judgement. It may mean trying to address them instead of hiding the truth so as to reinforce what I believe to be a myth – (that everything Robert does is beneficial to the school and acceptable from the point of view of higher morality). Currently there are no real checks and balances in Robert’s behavior so as to ensure sound decisions. This denial that there may be a problem and refusal to find solutions may eventually lead to an end to what we worked so hard to build.
But answers like yours that attack those that question without addressing any of the information presented, only reinforce the impression that there is something that the Fellowship is desperate to hide. This approach does not work very well for those seeking truth.
135, Who Knows,
Some of what I post comes from my direct experience, some has been told to me by the people involved, some comes from the general pool of rumors. I don’t wish to reveal my identity, so I will not reveal which parts of my posts belong to which category. I am happy to retract a claim if the people involved post directly to the blog. There was a good example of that when V denied that he had been asked to hack into the blog. (It seems that he had been asked if he could trace the bulk emailings.) If G or R or J or other students involved in the hardcore sex want to post their experiences and clarify what they do, how often, and how much they enjoy it, then let them post and I will retract any inaccurate claims.
To: Yesri baba
Re: Post 120
I think we see eye to eye to eye. I’m tend to be skeptical when people lightly throw around the phrase Death of the Ego. My peak experiences fall into two prime catagories: the sublime and the terrifying. When I read my first Tony Parsons’ book back in ‘01, I wondered what the difference was between his reported state and some sort of disassociative mental illness. Maybe I wonder that because my ego is not ready for the big leap yet. However, I’m more inclined to believe that these peak experiences are meant to be integrated into our conscious minds to help direct and inform our lives, rather than them being an end unto themselves, a destination.
“Can we really walk around high all the time?”— That was the question of my twenties and thirties. I’ve abandoned it for tougher, more interesting questions, but I do occasionally come back to it.
136
“Why all the paranoia and secrecy and negative responses to anyone that asks or tries to discuss it in the open?”
Well, for one thing it’s defending one’s gullibility, malleability, blindness and sometimes stupidity. I can easily see that it was in me at one time during some of my years of membership.
Of course, where the FOF has gone even more batshit crazy, since i left, one needs a higher level of buffer. You need to stick your fingers even deeper in your ears, and sing your song even loader so nothing penetrates.
When one lives near a garbage dump, one eventually blocks out the smell and doesn’t notice it much, but when someone starts smearing shit all over you, you really need to develop better internal defenses to ignore it.
I’ve found from observation that the more one defends, ignores or lies in defense of the FOF, the harder they are hit by the shock of eventual recognition, if they’re lucky.
I remember a couple “teachers” and students who boldly and emphatically denied the truth for years even when the truth was blatantly being held up in their faces. When they finally accepted the facts, they, even more than the actual victims, frequently seemed more affronted by their having been deceived than the men it was actually perpetrated upon. That’s pretty interesting right there. The most pompous and arrogant seem to be the most offended by their own stupidity and blindness.
It’ll all happensthe way it’s supposed to. But that doesn’t mean one can’t see and be part of the momentum and direction that seems inevitable.
114 Laura,
I completely agree with what you’re saying and still believe that it is not all totally rotten. If Robert were made to pay a couple of years in solitude and brought back to a decent community, he’d be just another human being with a thousand mistakes on his back to let go of. So would Girard and a whole lot of people in and outside the fellowship.
I am all for legal action because it is the fellowship’s intention to continue ripping people off but legal action does not mean that people cannot change. Enough suffering changes any one.
132 who knows
Sorry – but you don’t make much of an impression on me.
Are you incapable to give normal answers in an discussion? You are just shouting around like an imbecile.
Avoiding the question that for you as a student and believer in Robert Burton would matter most:
WHY ARE YOU WRITING ON THE BLOG IF YOUR TEACHER DOESN’T WANT YOU TO?
In a second thought I know now why you are shouting and avoiding this question.
It is very simple – because you can not answer it without looking like a fool.
Now – if you want you can shout again or give an real reply. The choice is yours and the path that the rest of your life will take with it to.
118 Rhino Neal
107 A Former Student:
That was a very odd reaction you had to Flying Free 101. I know the lady who wrote 101 well and she really does live the words. I guess something in her way of writing pushed your buttons. If you could get beyond that reaction you’d see that what she wrote makes a lot of sense.
RN
My reaction is based on the truly appalling lack of understanding in criticizing someone for doing exactly the same thing she did in the post. If trying to convince or educate people about non-duality as Bass Ackwards is doing is an incorrect process so is writing about it.
The whole systemic logical contradictions inherent in non-dualism continues to frustrate me.
If she wrote “In my opinion”, “In my experience”, “From my currant perspective” then it is fine. When anyone presents what can only be know to someone with objective consciousness as a fact like Gregory Goodwin likes to do then it is fair to question this. It can be indicative of either poor communication skills, merely not using the correct tense or an underlying attitude in which that person is in imagination about their consciousness.
I think the different quality of response indicates this ladies being (113 flying free ) as do Gregory’s violently rude objections ( idiot, fool, retard, mentally ill, shut the fuck up) to what he sees as challenges to his authority as a conscious man. Sometimes we can see something through criticism ( stepping on someones corns) better than other ways. Some people respond to a challenge to be the words by being the words others are like GG. We all make are own choices. If non dualism is a positive force than the most important thing is to model the positive results.
I am very impressed with her response ( not only because she agrees with me) but because it shows non-identification and a lack of expressing negativity, qualities I would like to have.
Rhino Neal ,wrote
“If you could get beyond that reaction you’d see that what she wrote makes a lot of sense. ”
If you could get behind your preconceptions you might see what she wrote made no sense at all. It is the contradiction of non dualism that after you say words cannot describe it you should shut up or find a different way of writing about it. My brief experience is that there is a flood of words many of them for sale about non-dualism, with seminars etc. just another form of selling awakening. Does this mean it is not valuable , of course not, but for everyone? That is just wrong, lazy thinking.
There was a book called “Many roads, one journey”. What is right and useful depends on you . It is where the individual is at in their development that determines what is useful to move on to their next phase. Neither non-dualism nor those who are its apologists can address this because this is scale and relativity. Non-dualism does not include the concepts of process, scale and relativity. In non-dualism there is no process of becoming ready to hear the truth, no process of absorbing and making the truth ones own because it admits of no process. This to me is ridiculous.
Can I see a plant grow, a fire burn, a wound heal?
If it is useful for fellowship members, if because of the experience of the Fellowship of Friends there is something appealing in this approach that is fine. If you become an evangelical non-dualist remember that any active force produces a reaction. What is useful is to find out how to be third force.
Hello Laura ~
You wrote ~
“What I find most suspicious, in this context, is the scarcity of information provided by Robert about what it means to live with his level of consciousness and how it has been achieved. The world is filled with teachings and personal accounts of higher states and encounters with the numinous.”
________________________________________
The reason Robert Burton does not get ‘campfire cozy’ with naturally, curiously discerning people is that it would reveal that he’s simply another Man #4, struggling like his ‘friends’ to gather something together (not sure what togetherness means to an entity who has formed a ’school of togetherness’ based on lies, deceit, spiritual fraud and downright cruel treatment of both the living and the dead.)
One interesting and sorta ironic fact (my opinion) is that although Robert Burton holds his entire spiritual ego up on the stilts of ‘his idea’ of C-Influence (conscious spirits), he has not regard or concept of unconscious spirits, i.e., those spirits still down here, who are basically no different than one’s (inside) bodies, just a bit more pissed off at times, for distractions are not so easy to come by when you’re disembodied and do not have ‘a machine’, a sorta ‘big doll’ to play with and share with other ‘dolls’; this also means there are less buffers, etc.
For ages, Shamans, conscious beings, (even contemporary Sufi teachers ~ See “Daughter of Fire” by Irina Tweedie (you would love this book Elena; I think you’d also find a sort of soul-mate in Irina) have PAID inner and outer ATTENTION to the actuality of the spiritual world meshed up against the one that plays itself in and out of the physical…
Robert Burton knows nothing about this dimension; for, if he did he’d not be creating such enormously pitiful ’shocks’ for such, feeding the painbody side of that which denies these ’spirits’ graduation into a soul-octave…
For me, (because I’ve heard about it from people who know of my blog postings categorizing the crimes of the Fellowship of Friends) what looks like identification with third dimensional stuff, keeping of an account, lunatic passive-aggression and so forth; is something very different (for me), for them, who knows…
Looks can deceive, as Robert Burton has, by default, taught his students most elementary level of conscience, their subservient (wrong work BTW) instinctive center’s relationship to his ’smiling one’…
For me, all that we are doing on this blog reaches far beyond the obvious personal realm, it is real food on a table that the ‘right and wrong’ simply cannot see (yet)…
This ‘table’ has existed since human beings were established on the planet; albeit an eyelash on God’s eye, at least it’s god’s eyelash and not something you’d buy at Walmart in the ‘beautification section’, if you catch my drift…
Our choices, our words, our conclusions, laughter, rage… all this stuff gives birth…
As far as omens go; in a real school (my opinion), the hobby and the craft of interpretations would go through a rigorous consensus; and while dealing with such coincidences that coupled together ’seem’ to form some sort of message, it would not be made to look like it was coming from the nucleus of the school, one person, one egg, rather, from the nest to the egg, not from the unhatched egg to the nest…
Robert’s seemingly always having to do something with nothing, ‘teaching’ meaning, though not being what the meaning imply, putting mind-labels to simple beauty that transcends mind activity,
labeling ancient labels that simply refer to more labels, ancient affirmations reinforcing his affirmations, that in turn reinforce the student’s affirmations (a silly circle for a school of awakening, if you ask me) yet he does not allow any dialog during the lecture, I never had that in University,
we were always allowed to express, add, debate, remind, expose our assumptions, being, idiot-ness ‘out there’ from ‘in here’; not only are Robert Burton’s students ‘trapped’ externally in a mind-form-school, so are their internal worlds caught in a web of mind activity, looking forwards to, gotta have, gotta be recognized for having donated to this for Robert, etc.
Although, I did experience Robert Burton’s way of ‘doing discussion’, somewhere else as a small child, which, consequentially, after having experienced such, told my ‘mentors’ that I was never going back, they did not resist my ’supposed stubbornness’ and allowed me to stay at home on Sundays,
I believe it was Batman & Robin, MASH, I Love Lucy, The Three Stooges, Green Acres, The Adams Family and various ’specials’ that offered me a broader look at god’s sermon…
Thank you Mortisha… when I saw you cutting the heads off the roses, to then place the left over stems in the vase as ‘your sort of bouquet’ I knew at that moment, real love…
A little SPACE would be nice, just give Asaf a ‘real job’ that demonstrates his weaknesses and being-ends, not one that overly compensates and expresses his automatic talents, maybe he’ll snap out of it… yet…
An egg cannot build a nest; although the probable arrival of one does… The Fellowship of Friends, as it is, seems to me to be a nest that gives birth to more nests, while students go around playing ‘hot potato’ with their eggs…
______________________________________________
Love to you all.
136 Old Fish
Well, nicely written. What can I say.
I had never thought of Robert as a bookkeeper or a business owner. And students as shareholders.
This model would be very appropriate in a bank or a company, but not in a Religious organization, as I believe FOF to be. And Religious in a true meaning of this word, as something that brings us closer to Higher levels of being.
So, from my point of view. We give our money not to ask something in return. If we feel that RB or FOF owe us something because we had worked so hard to make teaching payments, and now we are disappointed, because we learned that and that, then it is a lie, on our part. Our aim was wrong right from the beginning. We hoped to invest some of our money, and hopefully, with time, get a good return. Like, maybe Robert would finally announce that we are a conscious being, or something like that.
But if you give your money out of abundance, not scarcity, why would you worry if RB had spent it on some new cloth for himself or his friends? It’s not the only way he spend money after all.
Buying consciousness inevitably brings deep disappointment.
Alice E. (108)
My post (80) wasn’t intended as a personal criticism, and I apologize if it came off that way. It was intended as a critique of treating any form of teaching–in this case, even a valuable book–as sacred, or suspending critical thinking about it. In Search was one of the most influential books I’ve read, and continue to recommend it, and continue to find it a good source of practical suggestions. But it’s still just a book, and O. was still just a man.
Nor did I mean to suggest that everyone should throw all counsel to the winds, do whatever pops into their heads, and call it “trusting their own judgment.”
What I saw, and continue to see, in the FoF is an imbalance, in which there has been far too much blind faith, supported by chapter and verse, and far too little common sense and trusting in one’s own observations and conscience. It appears to have increased, rather than decreased, over the years, to the point that people are now fed a continuous stream of material that has no practical value other than as supposed evidence that whatever RB says is true.
I don’t disagree that a person trapped in such a situation might find it useful to read some of the passages in In Search you’ve highlighted, but I think it may be best for many to simply stop filtering all of their views about the FoF through what they’ve been told by FoF, and even “work books,” which it may be difficult to read with true objectivity after so many years of investing them with tremendous significance. There comes a time to come to one’s own conclusions, even about things about which one does not feel entirely confident. You ask whether we can judge everything correctly, and I would say, at a certain point, we have no choice, and waiting until we feel completely confident in our own judgment before exercising it leads to 20-year stints in the FoF, followed by what-was-I-thinking.
One implication of Bruce’s #139 is that certain types of people are more, rather than less, likely to remain fiercely loyal the more irrational–more absurd, more contrary to common sense–the church doctrine becomes. Some people just seem to prefer a faith-based teaching, maybe because it relieves them of having to do any critical thinking and any responsibility; following the teaching is an end in itself, and becomes the highest end. There’s a reason most people on earth adhere to a religion that essentially focuses on believing things that are unverifiable, and don’t think RB hasn’t noticed this. There are ways that harness this urge, and may well lead to high states, and maybe awakening, but the FoF doesn’t attempt to do that, nor does RB have the experience to teach such methods, any more than listening to mass at the corner church is reasonably calculated to lead to awakening.
Others told themselves when they joined that what they really liked was the emphasis on verification, because they’re nobody’s fool. We still hear this; it’s one of the more powerful methods of keeping those who imagine themselves more sophisticated than the “believers” in the sheep-shearing cycle. It eventually becomes unacceptable to them to acknowledge that they are, indeed, somebody’s fool, so they cling all the more tightly to their folly. Leading to, for example, the sad spectacle of Who Knows (80), or the careful, “I will grant you such-and-such, but it remains true that thus-and-so” rationalizations of the more articulate sheep.
Who Knows #144
A Religious organization? No wonder I left. I joined a Fourth Way School (or so I thought) that was going to impart practical ways to reach higher levels of awareness/consciousness. I did not get involved to be in an environment of faith and worship.
I knew something had changed……..
137 Critical Mess
You know guys and girls that Crit. Mass’s real name is ……………
And he is known to be a pedophile, homophobic, narcissistic, a sadomasochist, underground terrorist, Maoist, sloth, murderer, lier, drug addict, and a friend of Fidel Castro.
And until you prove me wrong I will continue spreading all the rumors I had heard about you, Mr. ……….
How does it taste, your piece of cake?
146
You joined a school of Steve Lang.
And you left because you did not get what you wanted- Steve Lang’s awakening. You forgot, or never knew, that “Steve” will never going to wake up.
Religious does not mean faith and worship, unless you only want to see that part.
147 Who Knows
I would think that if you have the balls to place someone’s name you’d have the balls to back it up with yours. Your integrity, honor, honesty, inner bravery and all around usefulness diminishes more with each post.
keep talking.
“Who Knows”
WHY ARE YOU WRITING ON THE BLOG IF YOUR TEACHER DOESN’T WANT YOU TO?
150 Peter
Because he is what he is. Or she is what she is.
117 Who Knows wrote
“A book and something you experience yourself are 2 very different things.”
“You don’t consider ISOTM to be some sort of personal evolution bible, do you?
Otherwise, you just made it into a dogma.”
You are not really saying much here. Study and reflection of ISOTM is not the same as making it a dogma. This is a total misuse of the language. No where did they write this. One observation is a proven fact. Members of the Fellowship of Friends have failed to utilize what is of value in the work books.
Re reading, questioning, comparing ones experiences to what is described is a useful process. So is stating your opinions whether correct or not, that is if you have the being to stand the reaction to shallow observations.
“A book and something you experience yourself are 2 very different things.”
Did you have to think real hard to get to this rather unprofound “fact”.
Part of the method of the 4th way as taught by Ouspensky, Gurdjieff, Nicoll and Collin was a development of the intellectual function. An ability to think. In this sense there is a similarity to the 3rd way or way of the monk as through thinking we attempt to discover truth and than develop the being to live the knowledge. Nicoll wrote in depth on “metonia” to think in a new way and the transformational power of right thinking using intellectual parts of centers. “to think in a new way” in modern psychology is called cognitive therapy and is used in a number of therapeutic approaches as well as in transformational psychology.
In relation to members of the Fellowship non-dualism may serve this function of opening up the possibility of changing attitudes and developing new ways of thinking. Rereading the core work books and going back to ones owns verifications and understanding as well as questioning the methods and experience of the Fellowship of Friends from my perspective is a useful activity.
Maybe not what works for everyone but one to which I am wholly sympathetic. I do not believe that the Fellowship, Robert Burton ,his teaching and the 4th way and system are the same thing. For almost 40 years Robert Burton has and continues to use the Gurdjieff and Ouspensky names as marketing tools for his own fraudulent “school” which is neither a Gurdjieff – Ouspensky teaching nor part of The 4th way.
In a list of the top 10 most important books in my life “In Search of the Miraculous” would be #1, with “Beelzebub’s Tales”, “The 4th way” , “The Theory of Celestial Influence” and Nicoll’s work following closely.
Is it a “perfect” book. No , but it has much that is valuble from the two men I consider most important in the development and transmission of the ideas that give the 4th way its transformational power. It is not the beginning and end of work it is one part of and that an important part of personall work to develop ones own ability for “active being mentation” by studying and using as much from all sources as possible.
Many of the ideas that were new when Gurdjieff, Ouspensky, Nicoll and Collin wrote are now part of everyday knowledge. Dr. Phil uses techniques of transformational psychology on a popular show. Books on transformational psychology proliferate. This may all be a result of the release of this powerful knowledge into life some 60 years ago.
A grounding in a subject is not the end of the study of that subject but the beginning.
141
I will try harder! And I promise, one day you will be impressed. :-)
People make this mistake all the time. Like looking up in the Bible about how to behave sexually. I had read something about this recently. According to Bible, or to the preacher that was writing, it is good for the woman to swallow the sperm of their lovers, since Bible says that the semen should not be spoiled.
What a nonsense conclusion.
Same with you Pet. Do you think I should consult Robert about how I brush my teeth or ride a bike?
Furthermore, there was no direct request from Robert asking not to participate in the blog.
Got it?!
Now go home and take some rest.
149
What a full.
it’s just a game
it’s just a dream
The difference is, I don’t believe it is REAL.
P.S. Let me know if you want to hear your real name :-)
151
And you are what you are.
Very profound.
I am deeply touched.
154
Do you mean the name I’ve always posted with?
And didn’t expect you to respond to the actual content of my post. None of you brave souls ever do. Judging by the arrogance and self-love in your posts I would guess that you’re still putting out for the man. You seem similar to the description of another student. The one, who after a few drinks, started to recite the price of all the gifts he got for his whoring.
I’m glad you’re content with where you are. I’m content with where you are also. I think we’d both agree with that.
Of course, I think you’ve been here before, with another cowardly pseudonym.
144 ~
You wrote ~
“But if you give your money out of abundance, not scarcity, why would you worry if RB had spent it on some new cloth for himself or his friends? It’s not the only way he spend money after all.”
________________________________________________
“But” and “if”… two of the most famous School of Relative Awakening words for buffering the ‘facts’…
To me, based on my personal sense of how I earn my money (it’s not from mommy or daddy BTW) and even if it were, I’d wish to honor them for how they procured it the same as I attempt to honor myself…
In ‘the real world’ no one gives money from “abundance”, you’re stuck in a Captain Kangaroo world where Laurence Welk is blowing bubbles and Elvis doesn’t fart…
To blithely give money out with no regard or connection to one’s conscience is sleep-walking; something I’d rather not be involved in while opening my skull up for brain surgery possibilities; so keep that money flowing, drown your conscience in ‘Party hard while you can.’ euphoria…
money is a ’symbol’, it shows something of ourselves as we spend it and how… If you wish to spend your ‘blood diamonds’ knowingly on more silk suits for Robert Burton so that his cactus hide appears more smooth and shiny, welp, party hard dude, practice smiling, you’ll need it…
___________________
l.t.y.a.
147 Who Knows
You’re a kept man.
“How does it taste, your piece of cake”?
A Former Student ~
You wrote ~
“One observation is a proven fact. Members of the Fellowship of Friends have failed to utilize what is of value in the work books.”
__________________
“Proven fact” from “one observation” (?) That’s brave…
Yet, this is simply not true; take this ‘odd’ chain of events;
In the beginning Robert Burton outright lied about his ‘celibacy’ (falsely and imaginatively aligning himself with a phantom image of what he could not be for Alex Horn);
Alongside this he lied about being ‘his school’ being a direct descendant of the G & O fourth way ‘railroad’… Lot’s of spinning in the very beginning, as Robert Burton hid out, slinking around behind the work book study groups, a Sith in a monk’s robe…
In the beginning students did utilize the work books, quotes were incorporated in articles published, daily cards, etc… So long as Robert Burton stayed out of the spot light of the Train Engine and off the tracks…
As soon as Robert Burton ‘intentionally’ (not to mention the newspapers and letters circulating exposing him) exposed himself, the fourth way workbooks and their influence began to dwindle, (this is not a coincidence, because Robert Burton’s truer being-self had always been in this state of not aligning with the work books or with the role of a true teacher)…
So, as his darkness was brought to ‘light’, (THE LIGHT, being the work books) were brought to darkness; now, that’s a “proven fact”… (not that I am trying to prove anything here, it’s there already for the connections to be made)…
As more and more of Robert Burton’s DARKNESS was eaten as LIGHT, the more and more the school began metamorphosing into an outward representation of Robert Burton’s inner mirror…
So there, ‘Who Knows’, toast to that…
Who Knows ~
You wrote ~
“I will try harder! And I promise, one day you will be impressed. :-)”
_____________
Remember, those in here have graduated from Robert Burton groveling (for the most part)… So keep that language for Asaf and Dorian, you might even get a tip or all the tips from the last Potage Sunday Luncheon.
________________________________________
l.t.y.a.
142 A Former Student: “If trying to convince or educate people about non-duality as Bass Ackwards is doing is an incorrect process so is writing about it.”
What Flying Free actually said was: “Immediately the Ego grabs hold of the whole thing, takes the crystal clear water and starts to muddy it with concepts, fitting it into the 4th way, helping others, studying it, just like you did the 4th way.”
She’s advising against trying to incorporate Advaita into the Fourth Way, and against studying and discussing it intellectually as we did with the Fourth Way. There’s something particularly odd about introducing it into FoF meetings, kind of like new wine in old bottles.
But talking about it in other contexts can be helpful, sharing experiences and so on. Writing about it is difficult because words are inherently dualistic, but it’s not a complete waste of time, especially if you’re describing what you’re experiencing.
It’s nothing to get upset about, but for sure the mind is not very enthusiastic about the reality of not existing, although it enjoys playing around with the concept intellectually.
RN
156 Bruce
Your real name.
From now on you will be known as Goofy Goblin.
158
Stop talking to yourself in a mirror.
Poor guy, lost his last marble.
Who knows – you bitterness, anger and rudeness do more damage to the reputation of your beloved school than most posts of ex-members.
Whether you know it or not but you represent the “face” of the school here and are seen as a true product of it. (Just like other wonderful people like Simple Truth, Jesus etc.) Nice “face”!
Any prospective student who’ll ever read your beautiful postings will have no problem deciding whether to join FOF or not!
So please keep talking! You have to keep talking! Your angles are great. May be you should invite your like-minded friends to participate too. ;)
By the way, the main school task is about non-expression of negativity… Obviously, School really “works” for you.
157 unoanimo
““But” and “if”… two of the most famous School of Relative Awakening words for buffering the ‘facts’…
——
Is that one of the “facts” from Snapple?
Or did you read it in the Webster Dictionary?
Oh, no. It could not be true!
You made it up!
You fucking lier!
I almost believed you!
And now no more!
Give me back my money!
If not I will sue you!
——-
In ‘the real world’ –
there is no conscious beings and awakening, you know.
There is only money making slave machine, that dictates how and where you will spend your money. What you live for and how you will die. That is your ‘real world’, my dear.
And I wish you well.
on 31 Jul 2007 at 5:12 pm
121 Rhino Neal
“120 Yesri Baba: “the unconditioned in us awakens more and more in waves through time and it is a unique, solitary and difficult process. There are many parts of us that need to be “brought up to speed” and many bends and twists from the past that are hard to straighten”
“Isn’t this just the mind complicating things? The mind likes to think it’s moving in time and progress is being made (or not), but really there is no time, it’s all now. It’s a small shift in being to see that you and I and everyone else are nothing but awareness, which is already completely here, no progress or change necessary.”
Who are you too tell anyone what their experience is? That is really offensive. Haven’t you had enough of that in the Fellowship of Friends?
You want to be a “true believer” in non dualism and start preaching it but you do a disservice to the information by discouraging reasonable individuals who look at the being required to be formatory and are perhaps not interested as for example myself who already has more than enough things to be opinionated about. Hopefully your unasked for opinions will receive the same treatment as those “true believers” in the church of Robert Burton.
The reality is that if you experienced what you described and it was not just intellectual center sophistry you would not need to put it on anyone.
You wrote
“Isn’t this just the mind complicating things?”
If there is no division how can you make a division. If there is no time how can there be a state of realizing it or not? How can there even be a word?
If you wrote “there is a state where there is no time” I could accept that. When you say there is no time that’s just stupid its sophistry, (Main Entry: soph·ist·ry
Pronunciation: ’sä-f&-strE
Function: noun
1 : subtly deceptive reasoning or argumentation
2 : SOPHISM
Pronunciation: ’sä-”fi-z&m
Function: noun
1 : an argument apparently correct in form but actually invalid; especially : such an argument used to deceive )
you can say time is part of Maya an illusion but it is.
Here is a good example of Sophistry
“It’s a small shift in being to see that you and I and everyone else are nothing but awareness, which is already completely here, no progress or change necessary.”
A small shift in being is progress or change this statement is not internally consistent. I am amazed at the lack of critical thinking and logic inherent in this approach.
Let me say one more time in case you missed it. This does nothing for me , It did not the first time I checked it out, it has not each time I return and your own inability to say anything that does not contradict itself does not make me want to learn more.
If it works for you that fine. The only reason I reply at all is a reaction to the tone of presenting objective knowledge which I find questionable. present it to me . It is a wrong triad you cannot force something like this on someone. There is such an incredible amount of really useful material that I am unlikely to experience in my lifetime and this is simply not high up on my list.
130 Joseph G
“Dear A Former Student:
I like this, from Nisargadatta. Maybe you will too.”
Perhaps you missed the part where I said I am not interested? I try to be positive if this is useful to others, if it somehow neutralizes the effects of the Fellowship on individuals thought process then it is good.
To me it is not in any way useful. It does not contain anything new and it negates what are facts in my reality.
What are my facts. When I have experiences of higher centers it includes an awareness and understanding of scale and relativity, I “see” octaves, triads and processes. What is in the system the ideas of the functions are facts. I do not seek a definition for the self but have an experience of it that is as non duality says not words. Can I be mistaken? wrong? In imagination? certainly. So what it is my own understanding and I experience no desire for more words of this kind.
I am diabetic, I take insulin. Do you imagine it then becomes a law that everyone should take insulin? If Non-dualism is good for you use it and accept it as part of what makes up your individuality do not look to me for approval or sanction perhaps it treats a condition I don’t have.
Try and see this is not a value Judgement I am not saying anything about the objective value of non dualism because I don’t know.. It is however a wrong triad to try and force an understanding on another.
Meditate on a tree. See how all branches become one and connect to the roots. Each individual leaf can be described using a system of three dimensional co-ordinates x-y-z. The path from each leaf to the main trunk is unique. Some go in opposite directions there is no right direction everything depends on the relationship of the part to the whole. This is my “consciousness’” and One I am happy with. I am a part , containing parts, that is a part of a larger whole.
ah la luna!
Cy.
163
Yes, ‘Who Knows’ that sort of energy and semantics is pretty much what’s underneath the Galleria carpet, we thank you for your honesty, so far as stuff under the silk carpet goes, along with the nuclear fallout of hundreds of consciences that Robert Burton has disintegrated by his ‘perfect smile’ and open fly…
________________________________________________
Who Knows?
Your conscience…
Hey, and watch that “my dear” crap; it gives me the willies,
dear.
____________
l.t.y.a.
162
Janna, hello. Nice to see your face here. Can you show your real face?
What was it Jesus talking about here: http://fellowshipoffriends.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-16/#comment-4183
What were you doing in Amsterdam?
And if you do not like my face, know, it is just a reflection of yourself.
People like Bruce, and the rest of you, are really nice and sweet, and it is only by accident that the words fuck, idiot, imbecile, and the rest slips out. Usually you are Angels.
Fkyou!
And I think if any prospective student ever comes here, they will have enough to read, and maybe my post will make them doubt in what you write so confidently.
Regarding negative emotions, truly, believe it or not, I do not feel any negative emotions towards anyone on this blog.
Although I have an aggressive style of writing it does not mean that I am negative.
And deep inside, I wish you all well.
164. A former Student.
My preceding comment did not apply to your post, but to the moonstruck tone prevalent at the moment.
Thank you for expressing many of the I’s that have been trying to coalesce in me in relation to advaita and niggardly data. We are not in a majority in this, In fact we are in a minority it seems, well among the vociferous ones at least. Maybe a case of out of the frying pan and into the fire. Youre not alone.
Cy.
166
Darling :-)
I hope you did not get a heart attack.
As to the rest, you basically said nothing.
I give you another chance to explain yourself.
Dear Former Student,
you said:
“In non-dualism there is no process of becoming ready to hear the truth, no process of absorbing and making the truth ones own because it admits of no process. This to me is ridiculous.
Can I see a plant grow, a fire burn, a wound heal?”
– Well, can you actually see the plant grow? I can’t! I see things as they are now, sort of as snap-shots, and mind later compares, uses memory, makes conclusions and COMPOSES a process. This is what seem to be happening.
Process is a mind-made string of recorded events from the past.
In the now there is no process, simply what is. The Now is too fast for the mind to keep up and tie things and events into a process.
So process is a mental concept, very useful in our lives, but nevertheless – imaginary, a mind activity so to speak.
In the immediacy on the Now there is no process.
There is no time either – this is another (useful) mind concept, or another (useful) illusion.
I think you are so sensitive to this stuff because you seem to value mind activity and hold on to mind-made concepts and ideas. It’s great, and nothing is wrong with it.
Advaita simply challenges this way of looking at things, since a lot of reality is so habitually replaced by mental concepts… In a way, we tend to think and explain our life away…
164: “I am amazed at the lack of critical thinking and logic inherent in this approach.”
Agreed. And that’s good! RN
Advertising, advaita, advantage, pumped up proselytizing preference, purporting, benefit, but baseless.
cy.
Hey, Who Knows, please say someting funny about me – I’m starting to feel left out… affectionately, RN
144- Who Knows
You said:” I had never thought of Robert as a bookkeeper or a business owner. And students as shareholders.”
We each have different aims and joined for different reasons.
I am only vaguely interested in trance like states that make me feel good but really don’t help anyone or go anywhere. I like those states but know how to get them with or without Robert. Presence is mine and yours and we don’t any longer need to pay someone like Robert for this service. We just have to be present.
Presence is one aspect of being, but I am also interested in developing as a human being. For me this means developing my ability to love, to be kind and honest. I personally feel that everything we do is a reflection of our being so if I do something that does nobody, including myself, any good then I have to question my being.
So if I over extend my credit cards, or treat people poorly, or hurt others because of my selfish desires, I would question my being. If I love an organization like the Fellowship and I misuse the property, misuse the resources, or put the entire wellbeing of the organization at risk I would question my being.
In short, how we use what we are given, whether it be talents, money, love, respect or presence, is a reflection of our being.
Some of us are questioning Robert’s being because he seems to misuse people and money and he continues to put the Fellowship as an organization at risk by continuing behaviors that are pretty difficult to justify from any healthy point of view.
Now you argue that he is not a bookkeeper or an owner. Then why is he then the main decision maker on every major point regarding how the resources are spent? He is also clearly not a prophet – then why was he allowed to continue making prophesies starting in the early 70s that never came true, even though he tried on occasion to claim that they had. He is also not a musician – then why is he allowed to dictate the musical tastes at Isis. He is also not a builder or architect – then why is he allowed to encourage people not to follow building codes or laws? So what is he – what are you paying him to do? Are you paying him to create difficult situations that then that hurt young men, which cause good students to leave, and bring expensive law suits, which block wine sales and which risk the Fellowship’s existence.
You may say that all these things that go against our feminie dominance are neccessary for us to break free. This is a childish way to work with feminine dominance. It is like the teenager that gets pregnant to prove she has the right. I believe this attitude is a buffer to seeing Robert’s lack of being.
And then there is the question of his teaching. I would question that too but that is a subject for another post.
So, Critical Mass made a few observations about how Robert deals with money. His observations are a part of the whole picture. If they are not true then deny them. If they are true then acknowledge them. It is time to look and see if Robert’s actions reflect the being we attribute to him.
Best wishes to you.
Old Fish
For me his job is as follows:
#121 Rhino
What is the mind?
Yesri Baba 121: “What is the mind?”.
Seems to me it’s randomly arising thoughts and feelings with no real center, at least that’s the answer that pops up in this moment!
regards, RN
#164 a former student
Hey, no problem. I probably wasn’t paying enough attention to all your posts on the subject. My own connection (so far) to Nisargadatta is just that my wife reads me passages sometimes that she likes. I passed that one along for what it’s worth because the way he speaks about mind activity rang true for me. For the record I am not a devotee of any kind at this point, to anything, so I hope you understand I was not trying to convince you one way or the other.
Joseph G
Who Knows:
One way to think of it – we give our money freely from our hearts, not as payment, but as a true donation (albeit required). That is a separate issue from how it is received and what happens after it is given, and does not preclude the responsiblility of overview. Any Religious organization (since you consider FoF to be so) has overview of its finances by the members.
Think about it another way – we pay our taxes willy nilly, it doesn’t matter what our attitude is to that. At the same time, it behooves us to be curious, as Old Fish terms it, about what is done with our tax money, and to try, in however small a way, to help our country (read school) to be the noble entity that we would hope for. If we receive information that opens the possibility that our leaders might be hopeless fools, or corrupt con artists, it is our responsibility to investigate and if in our best judgement we find it to be true, to try to remove them from office. It’s just common sense.
Hello All.
The occasional, irrational outbursts from these nasty people is mind boggling.
They represent their peeps so outrageously and horribly.
Of course it’s been said before, but it’s hilariously pathetic that they would actually think that a prospective student would take a look at their mindless nastiness and sign on up for their brand of paradise.
Further, as has been said several times in various ways, it will forever remain a mystery as to why they even bother to participate here. They can’t resist and I guess most of us don’t really mind. Still, it’s a bid odd.
They don’t be lookin’ like anything close to conscious thingamabobs through their fanatical posts.
They do, however, seem to be bursting at the gills to communicate, which is a good sign, especially from members of a group which encourages a lack of self-expression.
At this point, my best guess is that they’re extremely close to seeing the truth about their school and that the anger is pointed toward the participants of this open discussion rather than to the real instigator of the rage.
Still, who knows? Does “Who knows” know?
LL
Who Knows, you’re awesome.
My real face? Well, I can’t upload the picture here, but Janna is my real name… You probably know my face, don’t you.
Amsterdam, hm-m-m… Well, what was I doing there? Well, let me think… I was doing mushrooms, hash, pot, acid, coke… Brownies too… Lots of drinking… Didn’t do heroin though… Oh yes, I also attended FOF meetings when I was sober… ;)
Since I can’t see your face here I can’t tell whether I like it or not. I have a feeling you are one of my Russian friends, I think I even know which one, I do… But it really doesn’t matter.
As long as you are not negative at all! It’s the style. I love your aggressive style.
Can I ask you one thing (I’ll borrow your aggressive style if you don’t mind)
- WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING HERE ON THIS BLOG??? And where is YOUR real name, you brave chickenshit?
I haven’t followed the blog real closely over the past couple of months, and just wondering if there’s been any discussion about the possibility that Robert has AIDS. Is anyone concerned about it? Not concerned? Don’t care?
I was having a discussion with some friends that other day and we were talking about the liklihood of him transmitting the disease to his entourage and to the women they sleep with (they say, “if he hasn’t already”). They were speculating that he’s been able to keep the symptoms “under control” much the way others have done with the special “cocktails” over the years, but that he’s not practicing safe sex and can still transmit the disease.
But does he actually have AIDS, or is that just speculation? And even if it is just speculation, isn’t a reasonable issue about which to speculate given the amount of sex he’s apparently having with his male followers?
Are people going to respond with, “Stop the feminine dominance. Do you want to work or not? This is all a non-issue. He can have as much sex as he wants, and if people get hurt by it, that is the will of the angels”?
Or is there some genuine concern over this issue? I’d like to hear more about this — whether it’s the peanut gallerly offering their justifications, or others who know more about “the situation” and would like to share what they know.
Men, women of the Fellowship: Do you care about your physical health? Let’s (for a moment) forget about your mental health and deal with that question.
Does anyone care about this?
Dear Critical Mass:
Thank you for posting! Please don’t let the grumpy little Fellowship of Friends trolls who periodically rear their ugly heads get to you. Who Knows who’ll pop up next! Your voice and Purchasing Awakening’s are greatly appreciated. In time, even the grumpy little trolls can be appreciated for the service they provide…an entertaining distraction. Like that game at Chuckie Cheese’s with the trolls that pop up out of their little troll holes…then you bonk one with your mallet and they drop back down into their little troll hole… and then another one wearing a different little hat pops up out of his little troll hole over there…and you bonk ‘em…and you have fun getting out some aggression safely without harming anyone!
I will support you in your claim about the cash payments going to the Fellowship ‘boys’. It happened to me once. Back in the mid-80’s, I was invited to join others and travel with Mr. Robert Burton in his entourage. At the time, I was on salary, living at the Academy, and ‘intimately interacting’ with Robert. Making $200 of salary per month, I had no money of my own saved up for such a trip. (Let’s not forget that getting invited to live rent free at the Academy was like getting a raise, too.)
I don’t know if this is still the case, but sometimes these all expense paid trips to Europe were bestowed as a reward to hard working salaried individuals at Renaissance as a last minute surprise before Robert left. Presumably this was to inspire salaried followers to continue making lunatic efforts or others to like myself to get a little ‘closer’ to him. Sometimes people that Robert didn’t have sex with (like women) would be asked to go, although my impression was they were always in the minority, which goes without saying.
Just after we visited a particular center in Europe, I was handed $1500 cash in the currency of the country where the center was located. I was told by his secretary ‘du jour’ the money was a ‘gift’ from Robert Burton. Needless to say, I didn’t ask any questions. This enabled me to travel for the rest of the trip which lasted about seven weeks. Up to that point we had traveled as a tight group, and there was no stop over to convert that much cash into the local currency. It came from the teaching donations that were ‘gleaned’ from that center. So while Robert Burton travels Europe, he’s also skimming cash from the centers, having a gay ole’ time, buying stuff, eating, drinking, and paying off his dressed up sex slaves.
This is the conscious life Mr. Robert Burton has carved out for himself. What a deal! He spends boatloads of his followers’ money now, paying others to cater to his basic needs, as well as his every perverted whim, and his followers all agree to be paid back after death…? I agree with Old Fish In The Sea and Sharon, the fourth way is the way of the householder, which involves exercising common sense. (Let that be a lesson to you Mr Goodwin.)
Credit card debt is Allah’s way of saying that you lack common sense or you need better health insurance.
The Aztecs use to have poetry competitions and one such poet began his presentation like this:
I’ve come Oh friends,
with guacamaya feathers I adorn you,
with gold I paint,
with music and songs to the community,
I give myself.
Many people here are talking about joining another group.
A quiet mind is all that is necessary. There is no need to join anything. If there is support to help in understanding that this is all that is needed, then I think joining a support group would be beneficial for some people.
After the mind settles down, then all kinds of new information pours in. That’s where inspiration comes from.
It takes a quiet mind to access information from higher sources. I really think that it’s unnecessary to call it something other than what it is. Silence is the key to higher understanding, because without it, all we are is a bunch of I’s. Information from the Source (or God) can only be received if ones cup is empty.
~ 180 Janna
Well done.
I`m not in the Fellowship any more, but from my point of view, Joe Rogan is totally wrong,
to express negative emotions is weakness.
negative emotions are not usefull, are not noble, hurts others and oneself.
I agree with to said the things as we think, but is not necesary to express negativity. it is fine to said our thinking but to express negativity is a very different thing.
“to express negative emotions is weakness”
I just stumbled on this and found myself tumbling down the hill past Jack & Jill; enjoy, again, I know we did then…
403 Grassroots Protester
Many of us inside the Fellowship of Friends are wondering these days, “What can I do?” There’s plenty we can do. The following is a long list (although not a comprehensive list) of the numerous ways we can protest what’s happening in the Fellowship of Friends:
• When Robert Burton asks you to have sex, say “No.”
• Express your thoughts out loud.
• Believe the ‘I’s.
• Express doubts about the Fellowship’s ideas.
• Express doubts about the Fellowship of Friends.
• Express doubts about Robert Burton.
• Tell people that leaving the Fellowship does not invalidate everything about their time in the Fellowship.
• Tell people that you’ve heard there is a beautiful, spiritual, rewarding existence after you leave the Fellowship of Friends.
• Tell people that the Gods still work with them when they leave the Fellowship of Friends.
• Tell people that the Gods worked with them before they joined the Fellowship, during their time in the Fellowship, and after they leave the Fellowship.
• Tell people that the Gods work with people outside of the Fellowship (blasphemy, isn’t it?)
• Tell people that Robert Burton is merely a pawn of the Gods.
• Help people protect themselves from Robert Burton and the negative consequences of remaining in the Fellowship.
• Criticize Robert Burton.
• Sneak into the Theatron for Journey Forth by Day. Don’t pay.
• Carry a bottle of wine into the theatron and enjoy it.
• Leave the Fellowship.
• Before you leave, encourage a friend to leave the Fellowship.
• Dismiss any notion that protesting is “the wrong triad.”
• Dismiss any notion that encouraging someone to leave is “the wrong triad.”
• “Photograph” people for Fellowship-ese.
• “Photograph” people for using the word “photograph.”
• While driving, do everything you can to look for something interesting in the present WITHOUT thinking about the so-called lower-self, the sequence, bible keys, or anything remotely connected to Robert Burton. Try to find something interesting in the present because it is as natural as breathing to look for something interesting in the present, and because it is what you want to do, and because it makes you feel good, and because it brings you in touch with your inner nature, and with God.
• If someone you barely know tries kissing you square on the lips, don’t let them.
• Damn it, think for yourself.
• Express negativity, argue with one another, and don’t apologize.
• When Robert asks you to have sex, say “No.”
• Go on a 5-day fast.
• Examine your conscience without feeling guilty that you are having “morality ‘I’s.”
• Ask yourself, “What in heaven’s name am I doing here?” Ask it out loud, but with a smile, and ask it so that many people can hear you.
• Question authority.
• Listen to someone who is “expressing negativity” about Robert Burton. Listen to them closely.
• When you are at the table, please DO “share funny stories that are true, such as humorous incidents that have actually happened.” (In case you didn’t know, we’ve been asked not to.)
• Talk with your hands.
• Smile so that your teeth show. (In case you didn’t know, we’ve been asked not to.)
• When someone describes a “confirmation from Influence C of the significance of the Thirty Imperishable Work ‘I’s,” please dismiss it with a hearty laugh.
• Drive 5 mph over the speed limit on the property, and laugh at people who scold you.
• Park in the wrong place.
• When someone asks you for money at a Potage brunch, smile and say “no” so that people sitting at the nearby tables can hear you.
• Sign up for a trip to Egypt, but don’t pay for it.
• Open your windows and play a rock song full-blast on your car stereo.
• When Robert asks you to have sex, say “No.”
• Pull prospective students aside and ask them if they are insane.
• Don’t eat European style (even if you’re European).
• Sit on the Ming furniture, if you can find any that hasn’t already been sold at a loss.
• Grab a plate of food for your wife or girlfriend at a reception.
• Hold hands with your girlfriend or boyfriend while walking down from the road from Apollo D’oro.
• Smooch with your girlfriend in broad daylight.
• Smooch with your boyfriend in broad daylight.
• When Robert asks you to have sex, say “No.”
• Don’t wear a tie to a meeting or reception.
• Wear a very short skirt, or wear pants.
• If you see anyone in Robert Burton’s entourage, talk to them about it.
• Create an anonymous hotmail.com account, and send your thoughts to the young men in Robert Burton’s entourage.
• Create an anonymous hotmail.com account, and send your thoughts to several people on the FOF distribution list.
• Talk openly about books that discuss uncomfortable and unwelcome topics.
• Talk openly on topics that are not welcome.
• Make people feel uncomfortable.
• Want people around you to feel good.
• Don’t believe anyone who tells you there’s something wrong with feeling good.
• Use the word, “yeah.”
• Use the word, “nope.”
• When Robert asks you to have sex, say “Nope.”
• Recognize that being honest and true to yourself is not “negativity.”
• See that “negativity” can have positive results for yourself and others if you don’t inner consider it.
• “Photograph” others for using the work language way too often. Ask them to express their ideas in their own words.
• Direct a performance of a Shakespeare play at your home in Oregon House.
• Invite Robert and Asaf to it. And Ni_k. And G_r_rd.
• Laugh at the sequence.
• When Robert asks you to have sex, say “No.”
• Express compassion for anyone who is having a hard time with all of this. Don’t photograph them for self-pity.
• Don’t dismiss depression as a sign of weakness — see it as a sign of being alive and stuck in a dysfunctional group called the Fellowship of Friends.
• See anger and resentment as a sign of being alive and in the Fellowship. When someone expresses it, ask them what’s wrong. Ask them what you can do to help.
• Tell people that the Fellowship is dysfunctional.
• Tell people sincerely that Robert Burton has a serious mental illness, and that he’s delusional.
• Tell people that you were delusional when you trusted Robert Burton.
• Do any or all of the above, but invent some of your own protests.
• When Robert Burton asks you to have sex, say “No.”
____________________________________________
l.t.y.a.
184
And to define another’s subjective experience with a certain set of external circumstances flowing through their ‘certain set of internal set of circumstances’, thus creating an ‘expression’ as “negative” and “negative” as “weakness” is what Hans?
I’ am pretty fed up with the Fellowship of Friends shallow treatment of “negative emotions”, which to me are more real than what you guys called (and still call) positive emotions; particularly since it’s the ‘negative ones’ that reveal where the work is; and yes, not to forget about those positive types that buffer negativity from others with smiles and laughter; therein the laugh is also a cry… so, what’s the point here Hans?
Categorizing emotions like Robert Burton does, is getting you nowhere and brings about a smugness that’s actually wrong work of centers; for what’s behind every emotion is what counts, not the obvious-ness of the ‘expression’ itself… It’s high spiritual ignorance to take things at face value, this is what Robert Burton has taught you guys, similar to his practicing smiling in the mirror…
Break the mirror and stop sounding like Peter Ingle or Hans, take your pick.
_________________
l.t.y.a.
been checking in from time to time and…..
Dear Bass, I think what you are doing is very realistic and interesting and compassionate. Small steps are good. I may not be in complete agreement with you about all the -whatever-, but, boy— I respect how you are working thru things.
——————–
Now, this is something I want to post and this is not to you, Bass, except it is in a way, because it is to all of us. From Jack Handey:
“I think the mistake a lot of us make is thinking the state-appointed psychiatrist is our “FRIEND.”
Janna ~
You wrote ~
“I was doing mushrooms, hash, pot, acid, coke… Brownies too… Lots of drinking… Didn’t do heroin though… Oh yes, I also attended FOF meetings when I was sober… ;)”
____________________________________
Wow, Janna, I cannot believe the audacity; how could you attend the meeting ’sober’? Attending ’sober’, that’s probably what alerted them to your turning back into a ‘person’.
No heroin? Hummmm… I’m glad you didn’t, I like those birds, although I am partial to Flamingos…
And coke? Why not pepsi; I mean, live a little girl.
_______________________________________
Word!
“who knows”
You said that your teacher did not mention about writing on the blog. And by this you feel free to express yourself in your way here on the blog.
TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT
Well as a fellow human – I have to tell you that if you want to evolve in a what you think to be a school you have to take it serious, otherwise you are wasting your time and better leave it.
100%
Than you will be sincere and that is the only solid basis to grow from. If you stay – do it for a 100% – if you leave and go your own path than also do it for 100%.
A PART IN YOU
I am sure that there is a part in you that knows that Robert Burton doesn’t appreciate what you are writing down here on the blog. But still you write, and condemn people who see it in a way as their 3th line of work to give warning to searching souls out there who are interest in the 4th way.
ASK YOUR TEACHER WHEN IN DOUBT
So, it would be good to ask your teacher or someone who is considered an ‘older student’ what he thinks about it.
YOU CAN HAVE THE LAST WORD
Me for my part will allow you the last word in this dialog. Because I said all there is to be said to you. You first must become ‘clean’ with your ‘school’ before you will be able to speak in their defence.
Goodbye and farewell,
Peter
Elena, thank you for your remarks at 17/140. IMO they show transformation, understanding, real goodness. And Old Fish in the sea, at 17/174, idem ditto.
——————–
Life Person, I think you are right in what you say at 17/145, down to every single word. I have attempted to answer a difficult question by referring to ISOTM. You have tried to put this answer in a proper scale, arguing that although the answer isn’t necessarily wrong in itself, it just may not be too useful for fof-members who have been brainwashed for years with iron propaganda veiled behind velvet O.-quotes.
On an aside, let me say here how that post 17/108 originated, because it explains why I focused on O. I was thinking, not without some resentment, how awful it is that fof dogma relied for so long on cherry-picking ’suitable’ quotes from O’s works and pushing them to extremes; I said to myself: ‘it just can’t be that O. would only have spoken about the priceless value of schools and about giving up will and other such things, and not have given any defenses against people who are likely to misuse that; it’s just not fair, it’s not like O; there must be an answer to this in his books.’ And the very moment I thought that, the answer (or better said, the fragment of understanding at the root of the answer) popped in my mind, which was afterwards formulated in words at 17/108. (And it’s been almost 5 years since I last read ISOTM.) Here’s another of these defenses [just between you and me :) and not addressed to current-fofers], which by the way also vindicates your eulogy of self-trust:
“Above all, avoid those towers built in order to preserve the mysteries and to make an ascent to Heaven by stone stairways. And remember that as soon as men build such a tower they begin to dispute about the summit. The Path is in yourself, and Truth is in yourself and Mystery is in yourself. ” (Symbolism of the Tarot)
As for bewaring of extremes:
“Q. Is the full realization that we cannot ‘do’ anything already a long step on the way to ‘doing’?
A. Sometimes the step is too long, because Every Idea Prolonged Too Far Becomes Its Own Opposite. So if you persuade yourself too seriously that you can do nothing, you will find that you really can do nothing. It is a question of relativity. As I said, not being able to ‘do’ refers to people without any possibility of school-work. ” (The Fourth Way)
——————————-
A former student, thank you for your comments at 17/152.
Here’s a toast – to you and all sincere seekers of truth on this blog:
“The real community of man, in the midst of all the self-contradictory simulacra of community, is the community of those who seek the truth, of the potential knowers, that is, in principle, of all men to the extent they desire to know. But in fact this includes only a few, the true friends, as Plato was to Aristotle at the very moment they were disagreeing about the nature of the good. Their common concern for the good linked them; their disagreement about it proved they needed one another to understand it. They were absolutely one soul as they looked at the problem. This, according to Plato, is the only real friendship, the only real common good.” (Allan Bloom)
Cheers!
184 Hans,
Screaming at the pig whose gotten into the corn is not a negative emotion. If we agree on that, we agree on your take on negative emotions.
The problem in the fellowship is that students are being taught to let the pig eat from their plate and think it is an angel.
Howdy All,
Flying Free, Rhino Neal, A Former Student and KA.
I appreciate the little thread that has developed over Fourth Way into Advaita. I don’t have any opposite “I’s” to offer about this small discussion. I only know where I am at now and what seems to be helping me and my Friends. I remember how Mr. O. would describe why one would make efforts to wake up, either by being repelled by who one is, or attracted to what one could become. Taken on the level of waking up to the imaginary aspects of the School, the Teacher, etc…, the blog provides the repellant, Advaita the solution (for me, but maybe for others, too?).
So, my current approach to my fellow students is to offer them Advaita in the context of touching that part of them that is truly hungry for pure undiluted Consciousness, particularly if they are unwilling to look at the Blog. My own understanding jumped exponentially from reading Nisargadatta. After all, N. pointedly reveals what Walt, Rumi, Hafiz, the Upanishads, etc… point to, don’t you think? And what a relief! So opening that door need not be a shocking revelation, even to a firm Fellowshipper. N. affirms yet corrects RB, showing the shallowness of many of our untested yet silently absorbed myths and gobbledy gook. Then maybe, just maybe, some of my Friends who are not yet crystallized in RB’s brand of “Fourth Way” Bhakti can find a way out of this big misunderstanding and even be ready to see RB’s (shadow) Lower Self Blog side for what it is? If they are open to it? The point more is how to get free of the limitations of the FOF mentality while still immersed in it.
Actually understanding Advaita could be another process entirely. I realize that. The transition is definitely an individual process. At first I did the “mapping” thing of trying to align N.’s words to Fourth Way concepts and understandings I already had. Now, I understand that to have been a stage in absorption. I am currently able to read N. without trying to “map”. This also is a relief. Surely there is more to come? How can it not be so? I freely admit myself to be, once again, a beginner.
Friends, I understand my time within the FOF to be limited, I know that, so I consider these efforts of mine to be my loving, parting shots to dear Friends. My goodbye kisses. I understand the Fear, the Love and the Misinformation that keeps them in their places here. I would do what I can, while I can. That is all.
Love,
Bass
Bass, I believe you are on the right track. Our understanding is constantly changing.Actually , we do not really have a choice in that so it’s better not to resist.You will take what was useful from FOf as we all do and leave behind what was limiting.And everyone has to do it in their own sweet time.
Bass, funny how I did exactly the same first – tried to connect 4th way and N. (and other non-dual authors) words, and after a while system just “got abandoned” all by itself. As if one is trying to hold on to old familiar ropes before it’s obvious that one doesn’t need them anymore and able to simply let go…
I am glad you’re talking about these ideas to your friends.
Good luck to you!
192 BA: Thanks for clarifying – sounds great! x RN
Dear A former student,
you wrote;
“This is my “consciousness’” and One I am happy with. I am a part , containing parts, that is a part of a larger whole.”
“We are accustomed to thinking of bodies as having consciousness whereas it is consciousness which has bodies” – Nisargadatta
The notion of being someone who owns consciousness is at the root of RB’s teaching and the root cause of much that is false in RB and consequently false in the FOF. It is the dead end that many eventually encounter and a simple explanation as to why no one in FOF actually awakens.
“I” can “do” tricky things with awareness until the cows come home, the abiding result though will always be merely that the cows make it home.
Surely, believing we are a part when we are in fact the whole is what keeps us apart ?
Much Love,
Ryan.
I am that not the brightest bulb in the package. So, I will continue with Gurdjieff until I too “grasp the essense” of the 4th way.
I had a health problem once and instead of going to the doctor (broke), I went to a “esoteric book shop” for direction.
Thumbing through some “health” books I found “Ayurveda”. I purchased the book and began studying “Ayurveda”. I found very interesting knowledge about Hindu teachings. They explained in English as much as possible but kept the essential Sanskrit words I guess to not delude the mind.
I also took a course in “Ayurveda” for the sole purpose of eventually growing medicinal herbs. As I read “Ayurveda” I also connected in my “mind” the interconnectedness of the Fourth Way with the spiritual aspects of Hindu philosophy.
I finally decided that I would keep the spiritual aspects of the Fourth Way and the material healing aspects of “Ayurveda”
I guess it’s “different strokes for different folks”.
Dear Whalerider,
Howdy and thanks for your post #90
“Does not the raindrop require a speck of dust first…to transmigrate from spirit to form?”
Spirit arises in form and interacts with itself e.g. “You” and “I”. “You” and “I” are not the seemingly seperate, isolated manifestations.
“Being somebody is being asleep”- Nisargadatta
Much Love,
Ryan.
on 01 Aug 2007 at 5:15 pm
170 Janna wrote
“So process is a mental concept, very useful in our lives, but nevertheless – imaginary, a mind activity so to speak.
In the immediacy on the Now there is no process.
There is no time either – this is another (useful) mind concept, or another (useful) illusion.”
I am apparantly not being heard well, need I be clearer?
If this serves you well that is fine. I suggest you learn to moderate your language. I do not accept you as a man #7 with objective knowledge. I find it offensive that you question my right to have my own understanding.
on 01 Aug 2007 at 1:10 am1
77 Joseph G wrote
“#164 a former student
Hey, no problem. I probably wasn’t paying enough attention to all your posts on the subject.”
And I was simply in the midst of a group of I’s reacting to post’s about non-duality. But truthfully I don’t even enjoy reading the stuff. There is more in the sonnets or Walt Whitman for me than in non-dualism.
192 Bass Ackwards
“Actually understanding Advaita could be another process entirely. I realize that. The transition is definitely an individual process. At first I did the “mapping” thing of trying to align N.’s words to Fourth Way concepts and understandings I already had. Now, I understand that to have been a stage in absorption. I am currently able to read N. without trying to “map”. This also is a relief. Surely there is more to come? How can it not be so? I freely admit myself to be, once again, a beginner.”
My prejudice, to me this makes sense. As an exercise remove the concepts of time and process from this post and see what is left.
196 Ryan O’Poo wrote
“The notion of being someone who owns consciousness is at the root of RB’s teaching and the root cause of much that is false in RB and consequently false in the FOF. It is the dead end that many eventually encounter and a simple explanation as to why no one in FOF actually awakens.”
I am apparantly not being heard well, need I be clearer?
If this serves you well that is fine. I suggest you learn to moderate your language. I do not accept you as a man #7 with objective knowledge. I find it offensive that you question my right to have my own understanding.
Ryan I think this is poorly written. An edited form
“I think the notion of being someone who owns consciousness is at the root of how Fellowship members interprett RB’s teaching. I believe it is the root cause of much that is false in RB and consequently false in the FOF. I see it as the dead end that many eventually encounter and a simple explanation as to why no one in FOF actually awakens.”
If you observe the difference. The changed language takes ownership and yet does not present the opinion as fact. Basically changing the post from a lie to the truth.
I may refain from addressing this subject further ( or not) because to me it makes no sense. Time, space, matter, relationship all exist and I am happy with that.
The law of 7 and law of three exist for me and have meaning for me.
If you spent however many years in The Fellowship and failed to learn the basic’s of world creation and maintenance it is just one more example of what happens when ideas like self remembering are taken out of context.
Gurdjieff wrote that the Enneagram was a universal symbol and that if two individuals from different traditions even if they did not speak the same language compared their understanding of the enneagram and proceeses they would realize whose knowledge was greater.
Unfortunatly thus far my experience of Former and currant Fellowship members in relation to understanding Laws and Processesis is a big HUH? DUH? Wha?
To me Non-dualism which as Janna presents it, as it appears in quotes is a dead end a denial of process and time and for me useless material.
A heavily edited but still substantial interprettation of Walt Whitman’s “Song of the Open Road”
I gather those who have been in the Fellowship more recently , my own departure was over 25 years ago , my have a conditioned response. I have been blessed it seems with not being in the fellowship of Friends and have been able to enjoy this from my own understanding.
Song of the open road
AFOOT and light-hearted,
I take to the open road,
Henceforth I ask not good-fortune—
I myself am good fortune;
The earth—that is sufficient;
I do not want the constellations any nearer;
I know they are very well where they are;
I know they suffice for those who belong to them. 10
You road I enter upon and look around! I believe you are not all that is here; 15
I believe that much unseen is also here.
Here the profound lesson of reception, neither preference or denial;
You air that serves me with breath to speak!
You light that wraps me and all things in delicate equable showers!
I think you are latent with unseen existences—you are so dear to me.
From this hour, freedom!
From this hour I ordain myself loos’d of limits and imaginary lines,
Going where I list, my own master, total and absolute, 55
Listening to others, and considering well what they say,
Pausing, searching, receiving, contemplating,
Gently, but with undeniable will, divesting myself of the holds that would hold me.
I inhale great draughts of space;
I am larger, better than I thought;
I did not know I held so much goodness.
Whoever denies me, it shall not trouble me;
Whoever accepts me, he or she shall be blessed, and shall bless me.
Here is the test of wisdom;
Wisdom is not finally tested in schools;
Wisdom cannot be pass’d from one having it, to another not having it;
Wisdom is of the Soul, is not susceptible of proof, is its own proof, 80
Is the certainty of the reality and immortality of things, and the excellence of things;
Something there is in the float of the sight of things that provokes it out of the Soul.
Now I reëxamine philosophies and religions,
They may prove well in lecture-rooms, yet not prove at all under the spacious clouds, and along the landscape and flowing currents. 85
Here is the efflux of the Soul; 95
These yearnings, why are they? These thoughts in the darkness, why are they?
Why are there trees I never walk under, but large and melodious thoughts descend upon me? (I think they hang there winter and summer on those trees, and always drop fruit as I pass;)
The efflux of the Soul is happiness—here is happiness;
I think it pervades the open air, waiting at all times;
Now it flows unto us—we are rightly charged.
Allons! whoever you are, come travel with me! 115
Traveling with me, you find what never tires.
The earth never tires;
The earth is rude, silent, incomprehensible at first—Nature is rude and incomprehensible at first;
Be not discouraged—keep on—there are divine things, well envelop’d;
I swear to you there are divine things more beautiful than words can tell. 120
Allons! we must not stop here!
However sweet these laid-up stores—however convenient this dwelling, we cannot remain here;
I and mine do not convince by arguments, similes, rhymes;
We convince by our presence. 140
Listen! I will be honest with you;
I do not offer the old smooth prizes, but offer rough new prizes;
These are the days that must happen to you:
What beckonings of love you receive, you shall only answer with passionate kisses of parting, You shall not allow the hold of those who spread their reach’d hands toward you.
Allons! to that which is endless, as it was beginningless,
To conceive no time, however distant, but what you may reach it and pass it,
To look up or down no road but it stretches and waits for you—
To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
The Soul travels;
The body does not travel as much as the soul; 185
The body has just as great a work as the soul,
All religion, all solid things, arts, governments,
—all that was or is apparent upon this globe or any globe, falls into niches and corners before the procession of Souls along the grand roads of the universe.
Forever alive, forever forward, 190
But I know that they go toward the best—
toward something great.
Allons! whoever you are! come forth! 195
You must not stay sleeping and dallying there in the house,
Allons! out of the dark confinement!
It is useless to protest—I know all, and expose it.
Have the past struggles succeeded?
What has succeeded? yourself? your nation? nature? 215
Now understand me well—It is provided in the essence of things, that from any fruition of success, no matter what, shall come forth something to make a greater struggle necessary.
Allons! the road is before us! 220
It is safe—I have tried it—my own feet have tried it well.
Allons! be not detain’d!
Mon enfant! I give you my hand!
I give you my love, more precious than money,
I give you myself, before preaching or law;
Will you give me yourself? will you come travel with me? 230
To anyone who might be interested in posting to the blog, but who feels they need to participate in the discussion threads about various topics — whether it’s advaita, gurdjieff, burton, or the just “the insanity of it all”:
Although we’re trying to keep the blog “Fellowship-related”, feel free to post away on any topic that seemingly has nothing to do with all of the debate. Non-sequiturs are completely welcome — especially if it’s a personal story about Robert Burton and the Fellowship. Also, if you have a story that you think has already been said many times over, say it anyway. We’ll read it, and it will give all of us a completely different perspective because it came from you and not someone else.
If the debate doesn’t interest you, we encourage you to ignore it, and post away. We can have many threads going at once. In fact, we do have many threads going at once!
Looking forward to hearing from you, whoever you are.
(This was a Public Service Announcement.)
Thanks, Ryan (196), for posting the Nisargadatta quote: “We are accustomed to thinking of bodies as having consciousness whereas it is consciousness which has bodies.” That pretty much says it all. RN
181 and 184 are newly moderated.
Ryan, #198:
“The notion of being someone who owns consciousness is at the root of RB’s teaching and the root cause of much that is false in RB and consequently false in the FOF. ”
Yes, a defining moment for me was the realization that the part of me that so desperately wanted to “wake up” was the part that had the least chance of doing it, and would forever stand in my own way — the motivations are all wrong, there’s a sub-surface layer of wanting to be admired and special. Most importantly, the very notion of “work” and “struggle” refer to some imaginary “me” in a non-existent future — the antithesis of being in the moment. It took a major psychological smackdown to see this though, dissolving, breaking apart, free-falling with some rather disastrous consequences, but ultimately the crack of the shell that returned me to myself and relative sanity.
Now I just try to take things simply. I am who I am, and try to accept that. The perception that I am a real person sitting here right now is much truer than theories that “I am not real.” I feel real and the fact of my body and feelings trumps any arguments to the contrary. If this upsets anyone’s belief systems, sorry, but I’m not sorry. And to think I had to go through years of being in a “school” then come out the other end to reach this rather sane point. Yikes!
181 The question of aids
I have no idea if Robert has AIDS. I have heard that in Yuba County there is a cluster of people who are HIV positive in the Oregon House area. I would recommend all sexually active persons get tested and insist their partners get tested. You can get a free anonymous test in various locations. Sierra College is one. You can probably get more info from Google. Then you can post your results here anonymously. In the meantime, take precautions.
Dear Ryan:
Thanks for your post. I think the attraction for some Followers of the Fellowship to non-duality is like the social phenomena of some people within the Jewish faith being attracted to Buddhism. “JewBu’s” I’ve heard them called. Two ways of being in the world delightfully complimenting each other when one has been immersed for too long in either way.
I find that non-duality is attractive and liberating for its transcendent qualities; it speaks more objectively to our actual state on the scale of the universe: we are dead longer than we are alive! One’s alchemy doesn’t matter on that scale! Our more permanent state is merged into the cosmic ocean…and…for a brief time, we exist as vapor, then a droplet…in the cycle back to the ocean source. The circle or cycle is the perfect symbol for unity or wholeness.
It’s a wonderful sentiment that we are all one spirit interacting with itself. How could we choose to harm another spirit if we were living from spirit? For me, actual experiences of this fact are what I call the fourth state of consciousness. So ultimately, objectively, there is no duality. We are not separate; we are all one as the Absolute is All and Everything.
It sounds a bit like the way of the Yogi to me; the seeker striving to keep his awareness detached from his body and focused solely upon more objective reality or the ‘highest’ truth, transcending the mundane and ever-changing world of the ego and the senses.
You will notice that non-duality ‘irks’ others. Why would non-duality be so polarizing if its intent is to unify? It begs the question, is that a reality you can live day by day in the diverse world of people? Is it the head becoming too detached from the body that inspires Scott to quote Whitman, who “Sings His Body Electric”?
IMO for a person struggling in the recovery process from addiction, those with a lack of healthy self-respect or lack of healthy ego boundaries, the transcendent qualities and dissolution of ‘self’ inherent in non-duality would seem frightening and problematic, because that transcendence is what they long for in the drug of choice. The drug provides a short cut to nirvana where the self and time doesn’t exist. In their drug induced ‘stupor’ they feel merged in that great cosmic ocean, more than likely in compensation for what they lacked in their family experience. And since they also lack the being to create that state for themselves independent of the drug, the drug wears off and paradise is lost. Chasing the feeling of transcendence does great damage in the addict’s life and cheats them of being in the present. They are taught to be wary of it. That’s why in the stages of recovery, it is important for addicts to get grounded in their bodies and to learn self-respect through work on empowering themselves day by day.
So IMO the philosophy of non-duality would be a conflict for someone completing the 12 step process of recovery.
Anyway, I enjoy the discussion. More of you would be appreciated.
Love,
WR
Innernaut wrote in #206: “Now I just try to take things simply. I am who I am, and try to accept that.”
Something else related to this is that it’s hard to accept “where we are” and “what we are doing” at any given moment, as well as “who were are” There’s this constant, nagging thought that, “Perhaps I should be somewhere else, doing something else. Maybe I shouldn’t be here.”
We’re constantly second-guessing ourselves… and this fits right in to the idea of the “lower self” that is being promoted so heavily in the FoF, and many other related concepts such as the king of clubs and so on — an idea that we should “watch out” for anything we’re thinking, feeling, or doing.
But it’s precisely this second-guessing that keeps us from being in the present, enjoying our lives, and appreciating what we are experiencing right now.
“For all the day our eyes view things unrespected.”
Miles Barth, (who was called Miles “Brighton” as a member of the Fellowship over 20 years ago), talked about this idea in one of the last meetings that he led. He said as long as we believe that we “should” be somewhere else, we can’t be present. He said that it’s one of the most important ideas to remember as long as we have a goal to be present.
Now, having said that, it could very well be that “where we are” is running full-speed for the exit. We can be present to that as well, not doubt it, not disbelieve it, not fear it.
2b, #209:
“Something else related to this is that it’s hard to accept “where we are” and “what we are doing” at any given moment, as well as “who were are” There’s this constant, nagging thought that, “Perhaps I should be somewhere else, doing something else. Maybe I shouldn’t be here.””
I think it was John Lennon that said, “Life is what happens when we’re making other plans.”
Hello Friends.
Long before I discovered the teachings of G, I was visiting a friend who I respected very much partly due to his being a very knowledgeable old jewish man who was the head of Unicef for his corner of the world.
On his wall there was a picture of a man which impressed me very much because of the expression in the eyes which to me seemed to have great compassion. Here I thought at the time is someone who has suffered deeply and knows about suffering, his eyes seemed to shine with deep compassion and understanding.
I wondered who it could be? that my friend who I respected very highly, respected so much as to have his picture on his wall, but didnt get round to asking him.
I travelled further and lost contact with my friend.
Ten years passed……then one day I opened a book by a man called Gurdjieff and there was that man from so long ago I could have kicked myself when I thought how it might have been possible to have discovered him much earlier. Cest la vie!
However the Fellowship of Friends I found had very little to do with this mans teaching and I found out far more about his REAL teaching before joining it and after leaving it.
Gurdjieff said
“the hardest trial in life is the inability to alleviate the sufferings of others. What makes it worse is that it never serves a usefull purpose – not being experienced for a proper aim “.
One of his books is entitled “Life is real only then when I am.”
Ltya. Cy.
181
Like so much of the ‘Mad Hatter’ going on’s at ISIS Robert Burton has not been forced by law (as the obvious occult sexual predator he his) to have such tests made for the lawful interests of the infra-sexed church, the Fellowship of Friends)…
Years ago someone asked Robert Burton ~ “Robert do you have AIDS?”
Robert Earl Burton, the second conscious Christ, answered ~
“If I do, I don’t want to know.”
_________________________
According to Han’s ‘idea’ of not expressing negativity, Robert Burton need not do anything he doesn’t want to do, especially if it means creating negative responses from a conscious being or those wing-seekers whose sex centers are glued thereon…
_________________________
Beyond words my friends, way beyond….
l.t.y.a.
#181
I actually did hear that Robert was HIV positive but both people that told me are now deceased. And I don’t think hearing it second hand is enough to go spreading the word around. However, if I were in the Fellowship I would certainly go get tested.
Yes, the bistro (La Cucina) burnt down, no subterfuge there, it was probably caused by a cappuccino machine. The FOF received the insurance money, which just got swallowed up. Then 2006 saw the bistro fundraising. I can’t remember how much money was raised, but it was substantial, and a student was on salary specifically for the fundraising, and now she is fundraising for Robert’s personal funds. But then the FOF failed to meet the milestones dictated by the county, so the county started playing hardball and the FOF had to pay a $35000 fine. So the bistro project was abandoned.
I remember Robert announcing that Asaf was going to stay at Isis to teach and host events when Robert went to Egypt in Fall 2006. Asaf was beaming proudly. Then Robert announced that the reason Asaf was staying on at Isis was because the FOF needed to raise the extra funds for the county fine, and of course the events bring in money. You should have seen Asaf’s face.
So the theatron wasn’t usable. Now there are further fundraisers for a replacement stage for the theatron, one that will meet county standards. The proposed ballet is going to be held at the tennis courts next to the burnt out bistro instead. The FOF will surely cut corners with the legal requirements, so the county may as well have someone on hand for the first night of the tennis court ballet—there could be good money in it for the county. There was a recent email from Wayne Mott, an attempt at glasnost, that selectively detailed the history of the theatron project, reproduced below:-
(c) Wayne Mott 2007
After many years of work by a dedicated team of experts and non-experts alike, the Theatron has re-entered the construction phase that will bring it to its completion. The following is a short story of that process.
Back in January of 2005 we received a Conditional Use Permit from Yuba County for our Theatron. Since then we have been going through a process, stated simply, of creating a set of plans, having them approved and inspecting/testing the existing structure. The completion of this process would then allow us to continue with construction and finish what we had started in 2001.
In April of 2005 we submitted our first and admittedly not very complete set of plans. We followed that with a more complete set, Revision 1, by the end of May that same year. This was really the beginning of a learning process that kept us scrambling for the next couple of years. With the help of building code analysts we learned about how to deal with the many elements that would help us finish the project.
By February 2006 we were ready with Revision 2 of the plans, more or less. We were sure that there would be a lot more work to do but we began to hire the necessary help. We hired an engineer to design the waste system for the bathrooms. We then hired the same lighting engineer that did the design for the Sleep Train Amphitheater in Marysville with all its emergency lighting and backup systems, and also a fire system engineer for the hydrants and under stage sprinkler system. All of this was done to prepare Revision 3 which we submitted on June 30th 2006.
Our code analysts came and went as well as the staff at the Yuba County Community Development Department. As most of the staff that we had worked with moved on to neighboring counties we hired the person that we had worked with at the building department as our last code analyst. He knew the project well and was a great help in finishing off the last details.
After a few of weeks of review and minor corrections we finally received our approved set of plans, 50 pages of architectural, engineering, electrical, fire, handicapped access, site plans, indexes, etc… And in another week we had our building permit.
This allowed us to move to the next phase in the process. We had to verify that what was built was the same as what was indicated on the approved set of plans. After having our engineers submit an inspection proposal to the county, we began a program of testing. The independent testing company examined a random sampling of exposed footings and soil conditions. They also used a radar scanning technique and core drilling of the walls and footings to verify the reinforcing steel. After this was done a report from the independent testing company and our engineers was sent to and approved by the Yuba County Building Department. That brings us to where we are now.
The first part of the new construction will be to rebuild the stage in a waterproofed concrete which will then have a wooden surface constructed on top. The stage was the only major part of what we had constructed which was open to question. The weathering was already beginning to show on the existing wood structure. It was designed before the project took on the dimension that it has today. We had the possibility of re-building parts of the stage that needed replacing with a different kind of wood but decided unanimously that a concrete structure was more in keeping with the rest of the Theatron and would better serve future generations.
The orgies, with viagra, go back four or five years ago at least. Robert was very grateful to C Influence that they had given him three Russians who would have sex with him every Sunday evening. Robert said that it was the highlight of his week, and he looked forward to it all week.
When Adriana D died suddenly at the Mad Hatter, Robert commented that she had been dancing to jazz, “which we have been told not to do, so C Influence cut her down just like that.”
Here’s August!
204
Yes, and it (not an it) has more than just meat bodies.
215/Critical Mass
When Adriana D died suddenly at the Mad Hatter, Robert commented that she had been dancing to jazz, “which we have been told not to do, so C Influence cut her down just like that.”
This is exactly like the claim that Raymond Kennedy’s death in 1980 was caused by his disobeying the swimming exercise. Deliberate fear induction to increase obedience.
Critical Mass, #215:
“When Adriana D died suddenly at the Mad Hatter, Robert commented that she had been dancing to jazz, “which we have been told not to do, so C Influence cut her down just like that.””
What an absolutely clueless dork.
#219:
“What an absolutely clueless dork.”
Robert, that is, not Adriana.
Thanks 2b and Innernaut – I really enjoyed your posts…
On a different note (Critical Mass) – being Russian myself it slightly saddens me to see which role Russians played in the school… A “special” role. Most Robert’s sex toys are Russians.
Oh well. But, hey, if you ask an average American around here what do they know about Russians they’ll likely mention mail-order brides, Russian mafia, Brighton Beach and Russian prostitutes… It is what it is…
The latest shocking changes to the Fellowship of Friends website — part of the latest public relations efforts. The following is from the FAQ page:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Spiritual teachings have taught followers to “be in the moment” and to “be present” from the dawn of history. What is different about your approach? Why should I join the Fellowship of Friends?
If you don’t join the Fellowship of Friends, you will languish in the fires of hell throughout all eternity, and lose all possibilities of gaining your immortal soul if you pass up this one opportunity that you are being offered right now. In all of the vast world, the Fellowship of Friends is the only way for you to avoid damnation. Don’t wait too long to make your decision.
What is that opportunity? Can you describe it?
In the Fellowship of Friends, you have the opportunity give a large portion of your money to Robert Burton to suit his whims, and to feed his selfish desires. He will use the money to travel the world over while “servicing” his entourage of young men. You too can be one of those men — if Robert Burton chooses you to be one, and if you agree to it. If not, you will have the satisfaction of knowing your money is going to a good cause — helping Robert Burton experience the pleasure that he seeks, and helping him maintain control over his followers, you included.
So, how much money do I need to pay as a member of the Fellowship of Friends?
Remember that payment is a principle. You cannot get something for nothing. And the friction you receive from paying more than you can reasonably afford is something you can use for your inner work.
But that doesn’t answer my question. How much money have you determined is enough friction?
Ok, ok. To join, one pays a tithe of 10% of your gross monthly income. Special donations are also requested — well, actually we don’t “request them”, we require them — to help fund various (ahem) “projects” at Isis and abroad. Different payment categories, such as parent with child, unemployed, retired, university student etc., are provided to help accommodate a member’s financial circumstances — in other words, being broke with no retirement nest-egg due to years of contributing to the Fellowship without the help of the appropriate income to pay for those contributions. Because the Fellowship of Friends is recognized by the state and federal governments as a non-profit religious organization, all membership donations are tax deductible in the U.S. This allows the Fellowship of Friends to sponge off the state and federal governments to fund the various (ahem) “projects” mentioned above.
What are those “projects”?
You will learn more later. You see, you must decide… Do you want to work or not?
The project is that I must decide whether I “want to work or not”?
No, that’s not what I meant. I’m basically just evading your question.
Once I join the Fellowship of Friends, can I leave?
Yes, you can leave. But if you leave, you will suffer a fate that is worse than death. You will languish in the fires of hell throughout all eternity, and lose all possibilities of gaining your immortal soul — and the eternal hellfires will be twice as hot for you if you join and then leave… even worse than Adolf Hitler. By the way, just remember that Robert Burton is nothing at all like Adolf Hitler. And there is no “group think” here similar to the Nazi Germany. No comparison whatsoever. We don’t kill people here or start wars. Chill out. Yes, Nazi Germany was very much like a cult that went out of control (see the book, “Morning of the Magicians”), but don’t start comparing us, all right?
What do you mean that “the eternal hellfires will be twice as hot if you join and then leave”?
That’s just how it works.
So all other groups are wrong or mistaken?
We are not making a statement against any other way or group. But let’s face it; they will waste your precious time, and you will languish in the fires of hell throughout all eternity, and lose all possibilities of gaining your immortal soul if you pass up this one opportunity that you are being offered right now to join the Fellowship of Friends, and instead join one of those other groups, and especially if you don’t join any group at all. Because you see, joining is good. Groups are good. Not as good as this group, though. In all of the vast world, the Fellowship of Friends is the only way for you to avoid damnation. Don’t wait too long to make your decision. So rather than say that all other groups are wrong, we would say that you are just a complete idiot if you suggest they are right.
The simplest way, of course, to determine whether a group or discipline is giving you something is to measure the results. Do they give you the opportunity to be exploited for your money and to be sexually abused? Do they focus on ideas connected to feminine dominance such as the development of conscience, critical thinking, and kindness and compassion? Here in the Fellowship, you will avoid such nonsense.
I am glad that you speak about measuring results. I want to understand what I am doing.
This is the only way to work. Practical work on awakening cannot be based on faith. Ideas are presented so that we can pretend that we verify for ourselves what is being said, and so that we can pretend for others that we are awake and working on ourselves. Pretentiousness is very important. Appearing to be conscious to fellow members is the key.
You describe imagination as a negative thing. What about creative imagination? All artists need to visualize in order to create. Is this work opposed to artistic creation?
Any artist or craftsman would agree that creative labor requires concentration, discipline, and dedication to produce something of beauty or utility. The effort to be present only enhances true creative attempts to produce anything of lasting quality and beauty. When we speak about imagination, we are speaking about the mindless chain of thoughts that incessantly occupy space within our internal world — such as the imagination that Robert Burton is not sexually abusing his followers, or the imagination that members of the Fellowship of Friends are the only people on a planet of over 7 billion people who are living righteous lives. We are not even aware of the extent to which this imagination comprises our lives until we begin to make efforts to be present and realize that this is all a sham. Presence is a light that reveals and dispels darkness. Of course, here in the Fellowship of Friends, we don’t really practice these efforts. We just act as though we do.
You speak about making the proper efforts. If you tell me what they are, can I do them myself, or with my friends and colleagues? In other words, can I walk around acting like I’m making efforts by using the work language just as you do in the Fellowship?
Imagination (such as the belief that Robert Burton is not sexually abusing his followers, and that the Fellowship of Friends is the only legitimate spiritual school on the Earth) is a much more serious foe than many of us realize. It is not simply that we tend to dream and like our dreams—there is actually something inside of us that actively resists the effort to be present to one’s own life and realize just how much we are getting screwed by paying our money to the Fellowship of Friends. It is also not a question of acquiring more knowledge. There are texts, both ancient and contemporary, that offer precise information about awakening and how gurus manipulate others for personal power, wealth, and personal gratification and selfish desires. What is lacking is both an understanding of how to use knowledge precisely and the proper environment in which to apply it. One must be shown what to do, and then one must be reminded numerous times — and sometimes those reminders come from old friends who have gone through the same horrifying nonsense.
How will I know when it is time to join?
Right now is always the right time. Spend your money now. Write that check. If you die a half hour before writing that check, you’re screwed. So act now. Keep receipts, though.
But how can I know if your spiritual teacher is enlightened?
By our standards, we’ll know a teacher is awake if he/she doesn’t give a damn what any of us think, and manipulates his followers for his own personal sexual satisfaction and petty desires.
You keep referring to “effort”. What kind of effort do you mean?
The most important efforts are to act like you are making efforts, to speak the work language in front of other students, and to avoid any criticism of Robert Burton.
It all sounds too insane. I just don’t think I can do it.
It is insane. Do not believe anyone who tells you otherwise. However, the more we realize the extent and implications of our sleep, the less we think in these terms. A drowning man who is thrown a lifesaver does not consider the effort of grabbing hold of it as too difficult. He will be glad to have sex with Robert Burton rather than sink to the bottom of the ocean.
Is there a fee to join?
You’ve GOT to be kidding. Of course, there’s a fee to join. I’ve already mentioned that. One pays a tithe of 10% gross monthly income. The membership donation is also presented in a sliding scale, so that newer members are required to pay less than older members until they are able to verify the basic principles of awakening and sleep. We are very nice that way. Special donations are also requested to help fund various (ahem) “projects” at Isis. When all is said and done, you are paying about 25 to 35% of your net salary to the Fellowship.
Are there additional fees?
Yes, there are additional fees. You can pay anwhere from $700 to $1,500 each month to participate. No big deal. The reward is escaping imagination. Imagination is not allowed here.
208 WhaleRider
wrote
“IMO for a person struggling in the recovery process from addiction, those with a lack of healthy self-respect or lack of healthy ego boundaries, the transcendent qualities and dissolution of ‘self’ inherent in non-duality would seem frightening and problematic, because that transcendence is what they long for in the drug of choice. The drug provides a short cut to nirvana where the self and time doesn’t exist. In their drug induced ‘stupor’ they feel merged in that great cosmic ocean, more than likely in compensation for what they lacked in their family experience. And since they also lack the being to create that state for themselves independent of the drug, the drug wears off and paradise is lost. Chasing the feeling of transcendence does great damage in the addict’s life and cheats them of being in the present. They are taught to be wary of it. That’s why in the stages of recovery, it is important for addicts to get grounded in their bodies and to learn self-respect through work on empowering themselves day by day.
So IMO the philosophy of non-duality would be a conflict for someone completing the 12 step process of recovery.”
This would be a reason
able if questionable diagnosis if done by a professional in the field. What are your qualifications?
Is there some basis in fact or is this just a full moon head release of energy?
184 wake up little suzy wakeup
“Many people here are talking about joining another group.
A quiet mind is all that is necessary. There is no need to join anything. If there is support to help in understanding that this is all that is needed, then I think joining a support group would be beneficial for some people.
After the mind settles down, then all kinds of new information pours in. That’s where inspiration comes from.
It takes a quiet mind to access information from higher sources. I really think that it’s unnecessary to call it something other than what it is. Silence is the key to higher understanding, because without it, all we are is a bunch of I’s. Information from the Source (or God) can only be received if ones cup is empty.”
Thank you for your words. That is exactly where I am these days. I just read somewhere (paraphrasing) that activity is really just transportation, but action can only come from the heart.
Joseph G
“I want to alleviate our collective distress so that we can celebrate the miracle of existence together – without fear, oppression and hardship.
Don’t you also want that?
Since immemorial wise men and women have been assuring us that love is the only solution to our problems. And they are right.
Only love can heal the divisions between us,
because love is the realisation that we are one.
When we assume we are just separate individuals we act in our limited self-interest, regardless of the suffering we may cause others.
The illusion of separateness leads to selfishness and suffering.
But becoming conscious of the reality of oneness leads to the selfless desire to end all suffering and create universal wellbeing.
When we realise separateness is an illusion we understand that conflict is never between us and them, but always us against us.
This realisation has huge implications.
It means harming someone else is just hurting ourselves.
It means revenge – even against the most hideous of criminals – is hurting ourselves again.
It means war – no matter how righteous – is grotesque self-mutilation.
Think of all the needless suffering we are causing ourselves through our mistaken belief that we are separate.”
I’m Sorry
Please Forgive me
I Love you
Thank You
God Bless
Hey Scott, the former student:
Thanks for your response. Let’s just say that I am a seasoned professional in the field. You are too, I believe, are you not? We probably have more in common than you realize.
Work with me here. How could a person in recovery complete the steps if there was no ’self’ to be held accountable? How could they count the number of days or years sober if time didn’t exist? ‘Who’ would be powerless from what?
Is not the separation within oneself of healthy from unhealthy parts, behaviors, attitudes, or beliefs the beginning steps on the road to recovery? How could one feel whole if one struggled with a part of oneself that wished more clarity and another part that just wanted to go get wasted?
What kind of response would someone like Ryan receive in a 12 step meeting talking about non-duality? They’d say just what you say, get real, dude, who the fuck do you think you are to talk like that? They’d say, get off your high horse! This is the problem with talking about philosophy. It can get pretty heady and lose touch with the practical side of things, like just getting through each day clean and sober.
The inner conflict associated with non-duality and other ‘transpersonal’ therapies or ‘meditative’ techniques for the person in recovery is well known. I didn’t just sit down at my computer on a full moon and make this shit up for sake of argument. I’d be happy to refer you to some reading on the subject, if you were so inclined or interested.
To 223 and 84; Thank you for the posts.
Although I am no longer in the School, I continue to use the knowledge from it. And also from other B influence things I have studied.
A group may not be necessary, it all depends on your aims and what you want. In fourth way terminology 2nd line helps to reinforce 1st line and vis versa. So with being in a group you will see different parts of your mechanics if you were not in one.
For, me as I slow down in this momemt typing on the keyboard to finish this sentance; the realization is, “Am I here to writing these words”, or am I just being mecanically spinning into this blog in sleep. So, I have an aim to make an effort when I write now to be present. The same goes for reading, we can mechanically read, but what about reading from the higher part of ourselves, the moe present part, when we read from this blog. It does not mean to be reading critical and judging; if mean reading from a sense of comapasssion, external consideration and at the same time trying “B” in that moment.
Cheers,
M
on 02 Aug 2007 at 4:20 am223 Joseph G
184 wake up little suzy wakeup
One of the things I have been most succesful at, if that is even applicable, of late, is doing nothing. At least for me this is not some cosmic answer because indeed it is often just doing nothing. A lack of energy, motivation etc. But in many cases out of this “nothing” my own thoughts will arise, they may manifest as music, Art, writing or whatever.
In a very real sense the greatest luxury is doing nothing. To be free from the control of external forces to the degree of having choices.
Former student:
“I find it offensive that you question my right to have my own understanding.”
Did I question your right to have your understanding? How do you come up with this conclusion? No, your understanding is all yours, and it totally cool with me. Sorry to offend you. I really mean it. It must be my English that makes it sound … whatever.
I was just trying to have a conversation. To share how I see it. Hoping we can compare, talk, argue may be… I guess we can’t. You seem to perceive it as some kind of personal attack and get into defense mode. No fun! It is not an attack, it’s a friggin blog! Words on screen written by someone you’ve never met… Why take it SO personally?
If my words are that offensive – I am sorry. Again, I mean it.
Wishing you peace,
J
The Void
Surrounding the second and the third chakra is the Void which stands for
the principle of mastery (guru principle) within us. In many spiritual
traditions, this area is the “ocean of illusions” that needs to be crossed
with the help of a spiritual guide. When the Kundalini is awakened and
passes through the Void, this principle of mastery is established within
us. Thus, as Shri Mataji says, in Sahaja Yoga you become your own guru,
your own spiritual guide since you can feel on your fingertips all your
subtle problems and have the power to cure them using your own Kundalini.
Moreover, establishing this center helps us get rid of all our habits, laziness,
gross attachments, and everything that enslaves us in a way or another:
we become our own master. Following false “gurus” who are more
interested in power tricks or your purse can damage very much the
Void area. But after Self Realization, everything can be cured through
the purifying power of the Kundalini in meditation.
From a distance.
In reading some of the recent posts it seems that it might be a good idea to set up a support group beyond the blog and the greater fellowship site.
Being too far away I cant take this initiative, but perhaps some of the brave souls who have left and are still “around” could organise something allong these lines for those who are thinking of leaving or who have recently left, which might minimise the rawness of the experience, that some of us felt upon leaving.
It might also encourage those who are afraid of jumping into what is portrayed as “the void” and give real support in a time of crisis or “kairos”.
It could be very simple just some friends getting together to have a meal, drink tea, chat or simply be there maybe even a couch to sleep on or a place to pitch a tent for a while.
But with regular times to provide a structure or form to assist the triad of regeneration.
Personally it would have been a Godsend for me to have been able to have had such an arrangement when the “Queen” tried to persuade me to stay.
Instead after telling him, her, it that I was firm in my descision to leave, it seemed that I was completely alone.
There were probably others who had left who lived nearby who would have been supportive, but through “communication control” were not available.
Let them know they are not alone!
Let them know where they can go!
If you think its a reasonable suggestion please comment, post an address or whatever you can offer to help.
What do you think?
What do you feel?
Am I being naive?
ltya. Cy.
213, 223 and 231 are newly moderated.
198 Ryan O’Poo
“The notion of being someone who owns consciousness is at the root of RB’s teaching and the root cause of much that is false in RB and consequently false in the FOF. It is the dead end that many eventually encounter and a simple explanation as to why no one in FOF actually awakens.”
Couldn’t have said it better, myself. Thanks, Ryan. Higher experiences/understandings bring us to a loss of our sense of separateness. Call it Conscience. Call it Love. Call it Presence. But personal spiritual ownership is an illusion. Personal responsibility and integrity is not.
Cheers,
Bass
213
Good Morning Suzy ~
You wrote ~
“I actually did hear that Robert was HIV positive but both people that told me are now deceased.”
_________________________________
Suzy, did you mean this to sound dubious or did it just happen that way… it’s sorta dabbling in the realm of Black-comedy.
:’]
225
Good Morning Joseph ~
You wrote ~
“It takes a quiet mind to access information from higher sources. I really think that it’s unnecessary to call it something other than what it is. Silence is the key to higher understanding, because without it, all we are is a bunch of I’s.”
_______________________________________________
Beautifully put; I second that motion…
Whalerider, please mail me the large rubber mallet next to your toaster.
Joseph, truly, your posting is a sort of second sunrise for me this morning; thank you. Coincidences are more than ’simple affirmative ‘facts’… They are oftentimes the results of both our internal white and black magic.
___________________
l.t.y.a.
l.t.y.a.
214 Critical Mass,
Thank you for posting Wayne Motts account of the Theatron. Interesting that no where does he write how much money has been collected with that aim and how much it has actually cost. It is what is missing that matters. Detailed accounts of how student’s money is used.
Being quiet: I was watching a TV special one day and they were explaining how when Jonas Salk was working he would go out every day for lunch to a place where he could quiet his mind. And from that place of quietness came the polio vaccine.
It’s also very interesting to me that it takes an effort to be quiet. It’s both an active and passive experience, or complete within itself.
guided #231: A Fourth Way student by the name of Maurice Nicoll gave his opinion about ‘Kundalini. Volume 1, Commentaries page 308.
‘They also said the day would be that some of those connected with the Fourth Way would bang each other on the head about this or that.
And, finally, the Fourth Way literature (not Robert Burton’s) has indicated by examples the result of “SILENCE”.
One of the newly wed girls made her fiancé have an HIV test before they married. Very sensible, but he will continue to be at risk after they marry because he will still be having sex with Robert. Apparently he does Robert twice each night. Robert’s basic staple is sex five times a day.
BTW, the Romanians, ____________ and all, practice the divine art of semen retention, so they can keep going for a long time. Maybe this explains their influence with Robert…
Name deleted. –ES
Re: Post #237 from Elena about the Theatron
It is also typical of the Fellowship not to mention why there has been such difficulty with the county and such horrific cost to sudents. The Fellowship knows the county building regulations but intentionally decided to ignore them and go ahead with this project without the required permits, inspections, fees, applications, meetings, approvals, etc. knowing that there would be penalties and fines and requirements to meet county codes which means additional and unnecessary expense to the membership. This is typical of the arrogant attitude the Fellowship has towards “life” in general and even worse, the total insensitivity to the financial burdens placed on the gullible membership. This is nothing new. It has been the pattern of the Fellowship of Friends all throughout its history. Grandiose plans, that cost many times the actual cost with the end result being unfinished buildings, never-built buildings, aborted projects and a bizarre pastiche of pretentious structures that members are subtly indoctrinated to believe are wondrous achievements higher than anything possible by “life people”. The attitude of the FOF and Robert Burton is one of pure arrogance and shameless insensitivity to the burdens placed on the pitifully naive membership.
Vena, Funny ,thats just what I was thinking !
239 Critical Mass
“BTW, the Romanians,_____________ and all, practice the divine art of semen retention, so they can keep going for a long time.”
Or maybe they’re so repulsed they can’t come.
Deleted on request of the author. –ES
Words…….
quiet mind, activity…….
Wouldn’t the state of not being identified represent the quiet side and whatever action one is doing, the active side?
Not this or that, this vs that but this and that? Not being identified to me is simply holding presence beyond phenomena without disacknowledging phenomena.
The great loss in the fellowship of friends was that the “action with presence” that Robert taught was only allowed in as much as students followed Robert’s form. The Fellowship has never allowed any student to connect his own “action with presence” to his own will. That is why we were unable to teach each other from our own being and the speakers in the fellowship are only those that are willing to speak to support Robert’s form, Robert’s school, or a permanent expresion of indoctrination. Those in the inner circle gave up their will to belong to it and that is why nothing of value has come from any one of them but the blind subserviance to Robert against the majority of students. Nothing of value, for there is nothing of human value in Isis, except the many student’s thwarted lives. Not even the gardens are organic.
Robert and Girard, overemphasized presence without functions which deteriorates the I or integrated living. That is why everyone is so insecure and the sure ones are crystallized in their assuredness. The sure ones are sure because they don’t allow questioning or are willing to reason with common sense. They answer to Robert’s sexuality with a buffer like, I don’t know and don’t understand, it is not my problem. Their leader’s highest source of energy, highest function on this plane, is not their problem.
I think action with presence means allowing the centers to both take and bring meaning from the outside world. What you do and how you do it. What you do is what comes from the outside world, a gift, how you do it, comes from the inner world, your gift. Presence in silence also means bringing from and taking meaning to the inner world. Acknowledging ourselves as worthy cosmic beings allows one to understand that one’s interaction with this world is also a feedback to the inner world. Not just one’s own inner world but also the spiritual world or the cosmos in which we are all one. The spiritual trunk from which we’ve sepated into individual wills. Leaves sending light back to the roots.
It seems to me that one of the great horrors of our time is that in the physical world we are orphans. Not just those whose parents have died but all those who have given them up. We’ve lost references, connectiions, both with our parents and our children. Our past and future, our roots and flowers. This is true of fellowship students to a greater degree than elsewhere but it is a common practice of the economy. This suffering may well be worthwhile in as much as it makes us connect to a much wider world beyond the family but not necessarily excluding it, into the realm of I as an individual and I as a human being. I as a cosmic being and I as a human or earthly being.
They are both equally necessary in the fourth way. The connectedness with above and below is also as necessary as the connectedness within one’s self. The higher serving the lower is a law in the practice of one’s consciousness with one’s physical body as much as in the practice of one’s humanity and one’s work in life. “Work” in the ample sense of the word as all of one’s manifestatioins on this plane.
“Work” in our times also seems to have become orphaned from any human meaning. To work to make money is only a minor aspect of work. Just as love, marriage and friendship are amazingly disconnected from our consciousness.
I am basically talking about myself. This is what I see is happening to me. There is hardly any balance between the centers in my own experience and I dare say, in most of the people I know in “life” and much worse “in the fellowship”. I don’t think we can ever come to balance them individually as the fellowship of friends proposed. We need to align ourselves with a wider understanding of cosmic and human processes.
If the Fellowship of Friends worked for thirty five years in as much as it went on unquestioned deeply for that length of time, what can be deeply grasped and understood is that the form does model the inner world. The form of the fellowship held itself together for that length of time because the form did not allow serious questioning and those who did were asked to leave. It had so much power to model student’s inner world that there are still over a thousand of them willing to support an institution that denies them the right to participate on equal ground as to how their community should function with the justification that there is a being that knows much better than them what is good for them and they are willing to lower themselves and acknowledge that they are not good enough to take responsibility for them selves. They are being programmed to not be good householders but intentionally disown their own will. If this is not brainwashing, what is it?
For those of us who have lived it, that is, gone through being deprogrammed somewhat from one’s upbringing to being programmed in the fellowship and deprogramming ourselves again, understanding that the outside world matters, counts, deeply programs, is a great understanding. From one angle it means realizing that how we use our centers will intimately model our presence and how much will or presence one brings to the centers, will raise the quality of one’s interaction with the world. The huge damage to individuals in the fellowship is that by giving up their will, the quality of student’s interaction with the world becomes so poor that depression, fear, guilt and so many other self denying emotions, develop.
Thought, feeling, movement and consumption all need to be in harmony with one’s will. Consumption is a crude word for the beauty of the functions of the body but I’ll simply add, consumption in as much as one can bring the same measure of gratitude to what one is consuming. Movement, feeling and thought are even more difficult to deal with than the instinctive center but the instinctive center is a beautiful analogy of any of the other centers. Presence or the divine within one in any one of them, makes us beautifully human.
Robert rooted his work on the king of clubs as an enemy because he was unable to bring presence to his instinctive center and control his sexuality. He was unable to overcome duality in his theory because he was unable to impose unity within himself. Unity is an ever affirmation of the divine in man while duality is the perception of man from the second state. Unity is integrated transformation while duality gives so much credit to the lower that it cannot overcome the struggle, it stays in duality and gives no perspective, conditioning students to their lower self instead of their higher being. It has no hope, which is why students hopelessly believe in him, having reached no clarity of their own.
The programming of the fellowship conditions students to leave out their self will in every area so that Robert can decide how to use their mind, heart and pocket. Those working in the fellowship today, no matter how much they are using their centers for some creative work, are allowed only in as much as they do not include any of their own will, their own presence and simply adapt to Robert’s severly distorted sexuality for it is, after all, his sexuality, with cero acknowledgement of the need of each individual to develop his own will, what is conditiioning all of life in the fellowship of friends.
In as much as an individual cannot develop his will, he cannot come under the law of destiny and is merely under the law of accident or somebody else’s will. In the Fellowship of friends, student’s are under Robert’s law of accident or do the males really think that it is their destiny to be sexually used by him? and the rest of student’s, that it is their destiny to support it?
TO Shiek.
PLEASE REMOVE # 243 From Inner Piece.
Thanks
Elena ~
Did you ever happen upon that book “Daughter of Fire”, by Irina Tweddie?
curious
:”)
No, but I’ll be happy to get it when I can. Thank you for suggesting it.
What is an INDIE FILM? and can anyone name one, a couple or a few that promotes any spiritual ideas. I never saw the Matrix is that one?
170 Janna wrote
“So process is a mental concept, very useful in our lives, but nevertheless – imaginary, a mind activity so to speak.
In the immediacy on the Now there is no process.
There is no time either – this is another (useful) mind concept, or another (useful) illusion.”
A possible edit
I think process is a mental concept, very useful in our lives, but nevertheless – imaginary, a mind activity so to speak.
In the immediacy of the experience of the Now there is no process.
There is no time either – this is another (useful) mind concept, or another (useful) illusion.”
or
I experience process as a mental concept, very useful in our lives, but nevertheless – imaginary, a mind activity so to speak.
In the immediacy on the Now there is no process.
There is no time either – this is another (useful) mind concept, or another (useful) illusion.”
on 02 Aug 2007 at 6:18 am230 Janna
Former student:
“I find it offensive that you question my right to have my own understanding.”
“Did I question your right to have your understanding? How do you come up with this conclusion?”
It is a question of language. However in this (writing on the computer) form intent does not count as much as form since what is exchanged it is limited to language. By making non-conditional or universal statements you deny the existance of other possibilities. So if I don’t agree you are saying I’m wrong. This is inherent in the structure of the language.
Consider this statement.
“So process is a mental concept, very useful in our lives, but nevertheless – imaginary, a mind activity so to speak.”
There are a number of assumptions and conditions that make this false. One it is not prefaced with “in my opinion” “it is possible” “I think” “I have experienced ” or anything to indicate that it is subjective. You are not presenting a realization , experience or opionon . It is presented as an objective fact.
The “facts” as presented are that process does not exist, to think they do is mind activity and mind activity is imagination.
This is an unprovable statement because the only proof is in the experience of this state of realization.
So to me this is false. In a structered argument I could find many supporting opinions-perhaps even you did not think this way last year.
This is what Ouspensky described as lying. Lying in the sense of speaking about something you cannot know about as if you know. Consider even given that this is objective knowledge and 100% accurate you cannot prove something that is your own realization to another. This is the problem with speaking about or writing about non-dualism. Even given that it is correct. Language itself is dualistic as it reflects our normal consciousness. Non-Duality is about your consciousness. You cannot prove it by any external.
“There is no time either – this is another (useful) mind concept, or another (useful) illusion.”
This is another example. This is an unconditional statement of fact. “There is no time.”
Everything in my experience says this is false. Probably 99.99% of the population would agree with me.I don’t deny the possibility for this experience to be real for you. But in the way you are saying this without any modification you are saying I cannot have any other experience or opinion without my experience being false. Although you deny the existance of time. There was a point in time earlier when you did not think this way. If there was a change then there was a process of change.
” No, your understanding is all yours, and it totally cool with me. Sorry to offend you. I really mean it. It must be my English that makes it sound … whatever.
“I was just trying to have a conversation. To share how I see it. Hoping we can compare, talk, argue may be… I guess we can’t. You seem to perceive it as some kind of personal attack and get into defense mode. No fun! It is not an attack, it’s a friggin blog! Words on screen written by someone you’ve never met… Why take it SO personally?”
Why take my thoughts and feelings personally? Because they are mine ( and it was a full moon) and I don’t need to play any Fellowship make believe personality games. In the Fellowship an act of fiegned indifference to ones own thoughts, feelings and desires is cultivated to indicate that one has a “higher” being that one is “non identified”. This is a lie. Non-identification is an internal state. I can be cranky, hungry, irritated, thoughtful. logical and a myriad of other things and not be identified internally .
As long as I realize they are just passing states much like the external weather, as long as I know they are not “me” that I can have my sense of self and attention more on that which is unchanging and unmoved behind the shifting play of the many “I’s.
In a converstaion you can create room for different views by not presenting your opinions and currant understanding as universal facts it makes any other opinion wrong.
This is partly a question of semantics, ( the meaning or relationship of meanings of a sign or set of signs; especially : connotative meaning )language and that is the limitation of this form.
Part of what the experience of the Fellowship of Friends seems to do is remove the habit of owning ones own experiences and opinions. To remove the ability to say this is what I think, I believe, my opinion without needing to be “objectivly “correct.
The Fellowship has been using “objective” facts that are really lies for so long that it becomes a mental habit for those in the Fellowship to seek universal principals to justify themselves where they are neither possible nor needed.
“If my words are that offensive – I am sorry. Again, I mean it.
Wishing you peace,”
They are not that offensive. ( offensive – causing displeasure or resentment ) In other words they cause displeasure-If you are familiar with my posts in general there is one (if not more) area that I generally will react to and that is presenting an individual opinion as objective information.
I accepted this once from Robert Burton at some cost and I am not that tolorant even if it is just a misuse of language.
I think this reminds me of the way the Fellowship distorts communications and understanding and minimizes the sacredness of the individuality..
If all it takes is a minor change in language to communicate more effectivly then to me it is worth making a point of it.I am sure we agree more than disagree.
I have peace I am just an grouchy old man.
Elena ~
I can send you a copy if you wish; do you have access to Amazon.com and postal service @ the ocean? Since you’re already a ‘Daughter of Fire’ I am under no illusion that it’s going to be a sort of self-revelation thingy; simply, for me, it was a sort of ‘companion’, intuitively I ‘latched onto’ her Sufi teacher, gave me a good idea of what Shams might have been for Rumi, yet too understood her proximity to him as well, so far as my subjective understanding of such relationships are to ‘outside certain somethings’… Kiss the ocean for me… Geez… I’m a bit jealous you’re there; god, I love the ocean!
Word!
Apropos of Elena’s post regarding orphans, I recommend the following book:
Emotional Cutoff: Bowen Family Systems Theory Perspectives, Peter Titelman, editor.
An excerpt from the book may be found here:
http://www.haworthpress.com/store/SampleText/4812.pdf
249 Unoanimo,
My email is ludoteka at succeed.net. I never made it to the ocean so there’s nothing to envy although the ocean of green of the Andes is equally beautiful. I’ll be in the states in a few weeks. Would you care to talk?
180 Janna
Cool! You’re awesome too!
Oh, you know me?!
Really? You think I am one of “Your Russian friends”?
You have “Russian Friends” as well, interesting…
And I would guess that you are a “Russian Friend” to someone else. Is it some sort of a game ex-FOFers play?
Janna: “Dear, would you be my “Russian Friend” ?
Her ‘friend’: “Yes, my love. But you have to be Present.”
–
Janna: – WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING HERE ON THIS BLOG??? And where is YOUR real name, you brave chickenshit?
- NOT YOUR DIRTY FUCKING BUSINESS!!!, said “Who Knows” in his usual aggressive style.
-AND IF YOU WANT MORE SPECIFIC ANSWER, ASK A SPECIFIC QUESTION.
Specific |spəˈsifik| adjective – clearly defined or identified • precise and clear.
And since you are one of the few enlightened here, and, as you said you know who I am, you should know my name too.
Kinda stupid to ask, isn’t it?
But Cool and Awesome!
On The Expression of Negativity according to The Fellowship of Friends ~
Quote from a previous blog (somewhere in Part 13, in the 500’s) ~
“Dear friends traveling to Milan,
Robert is offering to seat with you and sign a volume of a book chosen by you at the reception after the meeting in Milan. If you would like to purchase a volume of “Best Thoughts” or Thoughts from the Teacher”, please contact X in Milan. You can also purchase a volume at the Apollo Media Products table after the meeting. If you would like to bring your own volume of a precious book, please do so and contact X.
Book signing: EU 50
Dedication: EU 100.
_________________
Quote from Hans ~ “Expressing negativity is always a weakness.”
_________________
As the years have rolled by (similar to tumble weeds that contain the one sock everyone has lost in the washer or dryer at some point in their lives) I have observed that the Fellowship of Friends ’still’ have a very Robert Burton idea of the expression of Negativity, i.e., formatory, very subjective and in my opinion not an idea birthed from Higher Intellectual Center.
Take the above quote concerning the book signing and please current Fellowship of Friends, ask yourselves this ~
Robert Burton: What exactly is it, to charge your already (subconsciously spiritually destitute followers; and you know it) and financially maxed out contributors, who beckon to your every call with their cash and blank personal checks, including their virgin bodies and essential, naive essences, who stare at you smiling, similarly to the status of their blank checks, $50 dollars for your 4 second signature and another $50 dollars, totaling $100 dollars for your 20 second personal dedication?
Subtle negativity?
Yes, I believe so… It is this category of negativity that the ‘regular’ emotional connection simply cannot see or stand to fathom it’s implications; yet, is it not true that such ’subtle negativity’ is exactly what the ‘personal conscious’ affirmations feed or attempt to neutralize in the Fellowship of Friends via subtle positive emotions of the same ‘real’ quality as the subtle negative, a sort of “seems to be”, “though might not be”, “yet one really cannot know for sure”, sort of cult-drug, which feeds on one’s duality rather than one’s attempts to reconcile conscience, contradictions, hypocrisy and lying, to try and be the same person in every circumstance?
Your ‘teacher’s’ subtle negativity is one of the enormous ‘electronic forces’ that keeps your ‘electronic psyches’ in a Relative Awakening stage and state (my opinion) and he counter-sues you by feeding you, again, the flip side of the same wooden nickel, subtle ‘positive’ affirmations that lead to belief, faith, hope and the promise of heaven and hell, depending on your ‘personal’ (subtle) relationship to him and his ‘ideas’ of C-Influence, and his ideas of their ideas of his ideas concerning their will.
Relative Awakening is the inner condition of one’s total willed force stopped at a crossroads, one lane is the obvious, the other subtle; many are ‘crucified’ on the cross and by being identified with the struggle to choose and not being allowed to by a cult-leader who himself cannot, it becomes a spiritual symbol of goal, hope and faith, belief and the extreme willfulness to simply ‘trust’ that his external voice and your mid perception of his image is ‘right’ while your subtle-eye, your conscience (among other inner tools) are wrong, subjective, lower centers, etc… (?)
Your statuses as Men #4 have become your crosses, not to bear, rather, to hang yourselves out to dry in the desert of Robert Burton’s wasteland of greed and spiritual fraud…
Good luck with that ballet on the tennis courts thing; Robert being a tennis player and all, I am sure he’ll spin it as some humble sign from the gods to make him look smaller and smaller; maybe some day you guys will make him so small that he’ll be able to squeeze into your third-eye and be that for you too… You trust him, right?
____________________________
Hello ‘A Former Student’ ~
You wrote ~
“Why take my thoughts and feelings personally? Because they are mine (and it was a full moon) and I don’t need to play any Fellowship make believe personality games.”
___________________________________________
Although it seems you’re still playing the ‘Fellowship games’ by adding the “full moon” thingy; is that supposed to excuse you for being “just an grouchy old man”? Is that a justification to be an effect upon another friend via the moon and not oneself? You’ve watched my back at times ‘A Former Student’, I hope you don’t mid me watching yours a little…
Even with the chess board totally cleared, it’s still a game; we’re all pieces by some definition of the word; perhaps the origin of ‘chess’ is closer to what we ‘will to be’, ‘will to do’, can be be from that place, from where games were invented, though not for the inventors sake?
___________________________________
l.t.y.a.
Elena ~
Yes. I will order the book and have it waiting (if you wish).
‘Who Knows’ where I’ll be in a few weeks; I’ll try and email you soon.
:)
191 PETER
Your beginning is good. Thank you, nice advice.
And then…
A “Part in you” – is a piece of what we in FOF call ”feminine dominance”, words like should, or must, refering to authority – “Robert Burton doesn’t appreciate what you are writing down here on the blog”. Do you want to make me pee in my pants because Robert does not appreciate that I am writing here?!
What a piece of shit!
ASK YOUR TEACHER WHEN IN DOUBT
Who said I am in doubt?
What a piece of shit!
I write here from myself, not as a representative or a delegate.
If you think otherwise, there is something wrong in your thinking.
“You first must become ‘clean’ with your ‘school’ before you will be able to speak in their defense.”
But what if I am not really defending anything? What then is my reason to be here?
And why does it matter soooo much to you and many others?
on 01 Aug 2007 at 8:33 pm
204 Rhino Neal
Thanks, Ryan (196), for posting the Nisargadatta quote: “We are accustomed to thinking of bodies as having consciousness whereas it is consciousness which has bodies.” That pretty much says it all. RN
I agree, and wish it was so.
There was a time back when I was experiencing either an extended period of awakening or a psychotic episode that I found it very comfortable to spend my time at Mountain View Cemetery and The Chapel of the Chimes in Oakland. I found it more restfull to be around disembodied spirits than those with bodies.
This is not entirely proof of insanity as Mountain Veiw Cemetary is arguebly the most beautiful area of Oakland, so it can also be a sign of wisdom and sanity to prefer it to say a shoping mall or Roberts favorite places, Restaurants.
Mountain Veiw is a Bay Area landmark designed by renowned landscape architect Frederick Law Olmsted; I often enjoyed the peace, tranquility, inspiring landscaping, and sweeping views of the Bay Area. It is a great place to walk. My favorite technique is to park on the top of the hill and amble about untill I tire and realize I have to walk back up the hill. It is also full of esoteric symbols to provide shocks to your being mentation as you walk around the different areas.
The nearby Chapel of the Chimes mausoleum is amongst amazing the best places to walk I have ever been. It is a maze with many levels and rooms . Built of fine marbles and other stone with incredible gardens designed by the legendary architect Julia Morgan, along with the chapel’s cloisters, alcoves, stairwells, fountains, columbaria, and mausoleum areas, with antiquities that date back to the 16th century. There are Stained glass, statues, murals, brass works, lamps, and mosaics . In some sections biblical verses on written at the tops of the walls . Every few feet the vista changes. You turn a corner or go up a some flight of stairs and there is something new. It is visually and emotionally stimulating full of esoteric symbols and B influence and still it offers very real physical exercise as one passes amongst the different sections and levels.
I once experienced a moment of unity. Much of what is described in non duality was true in that moment. It is not true now. Perhaps the way we interprett such experiences is also part of what we bring to it. Was that higher centers? objective consciousness? Who knows to me it is just another “fact” of life. It happened some things I remember offer profound insights other things were obviously or at least apparantly delusional . What I call “magical thinking”
It lead me to a new relationship to the “system” as it expressed my experiences more clearly than any other means I had.
Perhaps at death I will again experience this unity. Now I experience process, time, my life , my body. Arguing with me that I do not experience what I experience is pouring from the emptyness into the void. It is a meaningless act.
Can I share my experience , No? Convince anyone? who cares. I am not even sure it is a desireable experience.
If I am a cranky old guy fine. Particularly in regard to the Fellowship of Friends discussion which involves a group of individuals who spent much time , some as much as 20-30 years believing in a very nice smooth talking, well dressed con man who smiled, claimed a higher consciousness, called you goodness and said “I will love you for ever ” as he took your money and raped you or your friends, relations or husbands.
So excuse me if I don’t find what appears to be the “next big thing” in spiritual truth appealling personally. Also consider the track record of those who are now “converts” and as ernestly “preaching” this new truth as they did their faith in Robert Burton and the Fellowship last year or five or ten years ago.
I do hold everyone who participates on the blog in the highest regard not least the anynomous readers. A number who have posted to me privately at the greater Fellowship or called to say they appreciate what I am writing.
You can find my art work and personal photo’s either at the greater Fellowship as
Duncan Shockley fof 1973-1980
on webshots as Scottduncan
I moderate a rather placid group on yahoo called stillpoint devoted to discussing the ideas of the 4th way which certainly could use some help.
My e mail is scottduncan@frys.com
Also for anyone in the Bay Area I am going to try and start a new project called Leaves of Grass
The first performance is Sunday from 6-9 in Berkeley at Spuds Pizza. They have a very nice simple room with some good local art that I will use.
This will be performance art using group participation , improvised music, computer graphics , a drum circle and selected readings if anyone is in the area any help ( just showing up is help)with this would be appreciated.
Although I gather the those recently leaving the Fellowship may not find reading from Whitman appealing. I on the other hand not ever having experienced a Fellowship meeting that was just readings have no such prejudice.
To Who Knows (255)
Who asks the following questions:
“But what if I am not really defending anything? What then is my reason to be here?”
“And why does it matter soooo much to you and many others?”
Can you answer your own questions?
My answer is, “who knows”?
LL
257 Who Knows
“But what if I am not really defending anything? What then is my reason to be here?”
My guess would be that you already have most of the FOF membership repulsed by you, and you’re now seeing how far you can spread your misogyny beyond your sick little sphere of influence.
Deleted. –ES
Dear former student,
I just express things to the best of my English abilities.
I think it is obvious that whatever I write here reflects my own prospective and experience, not some universal one as you said (how in the world would I or anyone know the “universal prospective”?)
So may be I don’t use the word “mine” enough… But I am only able to say things from my own prospective, how I see it, the way it works for me… I assume it is obvious. We all speak from our own prospective, we have to. No one knows for sure for another.
(Except for Robert of course! He seem to know the universal truth and tells you so. He usually adds something like: there is absolutely no doubt… or it is undeniable truth…or irrefutable evidence… or it is marvelous, is it not?)
I don’t use expressions like this, so please don’t blame me.
It’s interesting to me to actually look at the points expressed by others, observe, ponder, question, think, understand something new – rather than correct each other’s language or call it lying…
I think we learn new things and understandings by sharing our experiences and views. I learned a lot from this blog and want to thank everyone who contributed here and Sheik for bearing with us for so long.
Interesting that Who Knows is unable to really get a rise out of anyone. So pathetic it’s not worthy of response.
Janna – nice job not wasting your spirit on this adolescent name calling. Just move right past him.
I’ve mentioned before that these juvenile voices are not representative of the overwhelming majority of FOF members who are reading the blog, even if most choose to remain silent… for now.
Lately the non-FOF-and-therefore-more-positive-more-hopeful-more-constructive-less-sinister themes have been very rewarding for me personally. Thank you all.
With love,
Joseph G
Who knows – I don’t get your humor… It must be your and mine language barriers…
“But what if I am not really defending anything? What then is my reason to be here?”
- I don’t know… Loneliness may be? Fear? Desire for attention? Could be anything – who cares about your reasons.
“And why does it matter soooo much to you and many others?”
-What makes you think it matters sooo much? It really doesn’t matter. In fact, no one seem to give a crap…
Frankly, your postings kinda suck, they are bitter and cowardly stabs, – so few people told you to get lost and not to take real estate here.
Joseph,
I think you might have made your compliment to Janna two minutes to early; or maybe you ignited her to post 262. But I understand Janna, I have been there too!
OH, hello Bruce!
We are all so mechanical, myself included so you don’t take it the wrong way. I thought today if I just go go against my mechanics more and not be this stimuli response machine I would be more AWAKE.
Hey Fat Boy.
To Former Student
What’s with you?
You seem to take exception to just about anything anyone else has to say, except you.
Hey, chill. It works like this – I say something, you say something, I say something , you say something.
In the general flow of life, it is called having a conversation.
And, then, if you don’t like what someone says, you don’t take a dump on them – they have their way of expressing their ideas, and you have yours.
Take a deep breath. Relax! Life is not as intense and miserable as you seem to percieve it.
Agreed Flying Free. I love those dreams when I am a bird flying, usually wobbly and above the street lights; Moments you have total control then one second later your about to crash into the pavement; I am always saved for some reason.
There was a good post a while back from a former student who stated to try to write and read and be present. I must admit I was completly in the second state of sleep on the above parapgraph; now there is a little more attention. Related to my mechanical observation earlier today was my many “fucking” I’s, useless shit I’s that my machine is just producing. One of the best angles I heard was at a fellowship meeting, and the student said, do not believe the I’s. That was a great angle for me and still is.
#252 Who Knows
Please tell your mother to put the parental controls on your internet access and make get back to your home work. Maybe you will pass 7th grade this year. And. please, leave the nice lady alone!
Fat Boy, #266:
“Related to my mechanical observation earlier today was my many “fucking” I’s, useless shit I’s that my machine is just producing.”
This is a good example of one of the most destructive aspects of the Fellowship of Friends, and one that has taken the longest to begin to heal: self-flagellation, self-hatred and generally low self-esteem. Life is real only when you realize your “true personality” is not your friend.
I see where you are comming from Innernaut, although I respectively disagree. I was actually feeling a low self-esteem in the morning because of work, this, and that. Then I realized, it is just the many I’s making me feel down. You could call it something else I guess, and right then when I noticed this I felt better and it lifted me up into a higher state.
I think you may have taken my point out of context but this may be your style, connect it to “how bad the “FOF is?
And you mentioned self hatred, I am not sure where you mangaged to unavel that out of what I said, but one can spin almost anything in anyway they would like to. I don’t think that is taught in FOF, and Robert use to put many exercises around self pity, so I would almost say the opposite is true of what you are saying.
But there is truth in everything and do not want to diminish anything that you have felt, and if you wish feel free to explain more of what you mean. For I trully do not understand where you are comming from.
#266 Fat Boy
Welcome back, Fat Boy,
Do you really have the courage to “not believe the I’s”?
This truly means evaporation of the ego, all faith, your persona, and that of anyone and anything you think you know and love. Are your ready to accept that “you” are the product of a your own mechanical imagination??
Although cults differ in their