This is the twentieth-second rebirth of the Fellowship of Friends Discussion. Enjoy your stay here and try to be at least vaguely civil and polite. And as always, have fun.
For previous parts of the discussion click on home and scroll away to find parts 10 – 20. For the oldest part of the discussion check out Animam Recro.
Purchasing awakening
He was counting poops, cocks and breasts, and now he’s into feet:
“The woman above the vase shows five toes on one foot and three toes on the other. Renaissance artists often did this rather than show four toes on each foot. It signifies the nine of hearts engaging the inhalation and exhalation of the four wordless breaths.”
“The five toes of the man’s inner right foot are facing us, while the big toe on his left foot, representing long BE, is outside of time.”
“Washing the feet” means purifying the nine of hearts of imagination.”
************
Burton is hardly more delusional now than he was right from the beginning, the nutty crap he is “teaching” now is consistently symptomatic of someone exhibiting psychosis. From one of his first meetings in 1970:
Burton: This group will produce three angels, and they will be burned on the cross and will survive.
Q. The others are the chaff?
Burton: They move to another role, if we take Jesus’ words, “Every hair is counted.” Remember, those three I spoke of will be literally and worse burned on the cross.
All of us at one time paid money for it and those still there in the FoF are now paying for the delusional obsessions of a creature with a broken brain. If it weren’t for the uncomprehendingly destructive effects of Burton’s criminal sexual predation it would be pathetically comical that so many otherwise intelligent people belonged to this “conscious teaching” owned and operated by what almost anyone in *life* would recognize as a compete lunatic. I remember conspiratorially informing a close *life* friend of the impending “worldwide depression” that was about to befall humanity back in about 1982, my friend listened to the entire stupid tale and casually informed me that I was in a cult run by a nut. I remember the feeling I had of a knowing superiority and experiencing a little sadness that my friend was not going to “get it.” I went on “remembering myself” with the expectation that the grand scheme of C influence was going to play out just as “The Teacher” predicted. Now you have 1500 people counting toes on old paintings and imagining that they are “present” in short and long BE. People are sleeping machines, so much so that they will believe the delusions of a madman and feel certain that they are hearing the truth.
Thanks to you sheik and fellowbloggers.
“It’s only the giving that makes you what you are…”
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=dRY6fw2diP0
wondering allowed…
Wond’ring aloud –
how we feel today.
Last night sipped the sunset –
my hands in her hair.
We are our own saviours
as we start both our hearts beating life
into each other.
Wond’ring aloud –
will the years treat us well.
As she floats in the kitchen,
I’m tasting the smell
of toast as the butter runs.
Then she comes, spilling crumbs on the bed
and I shake my head.
And it’s only the giving
that makes you what you are.
p. 21, 609 practical former member 1978- 1985
I’ve read less than 5%of this blog. Nevertheless, I will contribute my two cents. I am ready to help bring justice to the FOF. I believe RB is a criminal element. If someone has a strategy to bring him to justice, then let’s do it. Who is in? If all that can be done is continue this cycle of rants, then so be it; there is value in that.
—————————–
A conversation very much like this happened at my house last night.
In case my last post seemed overly “sweet”
vinnie the fish, this one’s for you bud –
“so hard to get through to you…”
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=YUCNsZXCd58
571 Whalerider
574 observer
I resonated to both your post’s. Robert has an uncanny ability to cultivate essence and then brutishly abuse it. There is no more powerful healing agent than truth. We cannot move forward without acceptance of the past. Observer my own experience with Robert was very similar. It only occurred once, I was stunned into an almost helpless state. I also refused to have sex with him again and the invitations, and gifts stopped. It took me some 3 years to leave the Fellowship. I never said anything to anyone about the incident . Even years later it took a long time to speak about it with my therapist and that was only after reading the blog and discovering that I was not alone.
It has taken many years to experience the emotions that I shut down. Perhaps this is the greatest part of Robert’s crime, the damage to his students emotions. He cannot and should not be judged as an ordinary man but as what he claims to be a “higher ” man using his position as the leader of a group to live like a psychic and emotional vampire sucking the life ( no pun intended) out of those whose he is supposed to guide and nurture His “beloved students”.
Please keep posting these honest experiences for your own sake and for others. If there are FOF members who are rading the blog perhaps over time with the repatition they will begin to understand their part in this ongoing play of crime.
One a quiet sunday night I turn on the computer and get hit with this. You people are exceeding my highest expectations (wait, did I have expectations?) and pretty much blew my mind. There is so much I would like to comment that I am almost speechless.
Just a few acknowledgments:
Thanks Yesri, I finally watched the History Boys the other night. Brilliant.
Thanks Turbot for Evolution in motion, freaky indeed. I suspect my daughters have been up to something similar for a while now.
Tiger 739
Yes, the Sopranos, I knew the consiglieri Bruce and Uno were up to something, remember Howard Carter, somebody must have tipped him off… Maybe my cousins in Capri have something to do with this too….
699 Vena
That is heartbreaking… I remember bumping into an old “Fellowship of Friends” friend, a girl I had shared a room with during our first heroic months at Renaissance, sharing so much more, I was at her wedding, and then I meet her years later in a restaurant in Florence and she gives me the cold treatment! I was so sorry for her… what a shame to see people trapped in a web of lies…
Old Fish, 712
thanks, that is a wonderful documentary (I do agree with the “way too much Bono” assessment, though). I was thinking of uploading on You Tube the part in which he speaks about failure and reaching the masterpiece, it is so relevant to the ongoing discussion. I’ll try to get to it.
Graduates 1
Touché!
‘ton 3
namaste
The party is on… (prudes abstain, it’s very pubic)
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=OJk173PeZiI
a final dedication:
to the courageous and gifted women who inhabit this domain… u know who u r.
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=_swFHp-0_sY
Hey lady–you got the love I need
Maybe more than enough.
Oh darling… walk a while with me
Ooh, youve got so much…
Many times I loved
Many times been bitten
Many times Ive gazed
Along the open road.
Many times Ive lied
Many times Ive listened
Many times Ive wondered
How much there is to know.
Many dreams come true
And some have silver linings
I live for my dream
And a pocketful of gold.
Mellow is the man
Who knows what hes been missing
Many many men
Cant see the open road.
Many is a word
That only leaves you guessing
Guessing bout a thing
You really ought to know, ooh!
You really ought to know
I really ought to know!
Oooh, you know I should, you know I should, you know I should…
21/653 (newly moderated)
Dear “I see, said the blind man”,
I’m going to assume you’re not implying that any of us attracted to the FOF were predestined to go through that kind suffering because we lacked something in ourselves and needed that “lesson”, but your words could be read that way. I think innocence rather than ignorance lead most of us to join the FOF, and one way or another we each found our threshold and left.
The neon warning you sense when it comes to goading on WR’s or anyone’s victim status is right understanding IMO and I also felt some disappointment in this regard for some of the posts to WR. As a woman I feel a unique empathy for the unwelcomed experiences of WhaleRider, More History Needed, ‘ton and all the others.
The experience cannot be undone, only the relationship to it. No one else can make a victim agree to reclaim the remaining gift of their life, but as a friend we can try. We all feel anger and disgust at the sleaziness of the whole Robert and FOF package because most of all it was a betrayal of our expectations.
Understanding “what is” remains a constantly shifting equation, of which we are a part, and I think that’s where personal responsibility lies.
============================================
Dear WhaleRider, if you are here, you may have missed a newly moderated post to you from Unoanimo on page 21/633.
Love to all.
Dear Former student
Thanks for your courage and I wish you so much healing as I do for all of us.
Maybe some women can come forward with their experiences about the abortion Robert wanted….?
Ouchi,
I do not expect this from any body…there are websites and organizations who help women with this trauma……
Ouchi,
Love to all of you
Reposting From Part 21
________________________________
633 unoanimo
Hello Whalerider ~
You wrote ~
“The trouble is…my ‘self’. I don’t want to remember myself.”
_______________________________________________
Right. The trouble is that Robert Burton taught self remember to displace being and conscience, artificially (to serve his needs and his ’style’ of post-Alex Horn exile from ‘The Family’; instead of the traditional ‘content’, he dumped his ego and all that it implies into the crystal clear fountain of Rumi, where Law Books go in and come out ’still dry’. The Fellowship of Friends taught students to ~
expect, rather than to treat today as if it were the last, at least a little, I know that one is a whopper…
to have faith, rather than to be faithless enough in tomorrow and be enough of oneself for another to be able to have faith in that being of one’s own essence…
to use the mind to create for obstacles, rather than simply letting it use itself till this ‘letting’ (quiet permission to raise hell and spit emotional smiles at everyone) simply fizzled out into one’s own nothingness, i.e., that we are not what we do to be nothing…
to use sex energy for sexual pursuit and suits, rather than one’s own conscience pursuits, Robert Burton never talked about the Sex Center much because that was his main target of abuse, traumatic power and destruction; any attention to the Sex Center would have eventually led to a bridge being built between it and the conscience, which is absolutely essential to go beyond Relative Awakening, Robert Burton never built this bridge, this is how it is (one reason of many) that ‘his school’ is not ‘a school’…
children were ‘put under the thumb’ and for the most part still are; they are also a symbol of this ‘bridge’ between the Sex Center and Conscience, something (unless it’s a beautiful affirmative young little boy, who smiles at Robert Burton’s pedophile grin) that Robert Burton simply cannot endure, i.e., an unpredictable voice of its own power, doing very well without his attention, his fear of being overlooked, his fear of being not busy enough to seem as though he’s working harder than his students, his King of Clubs position of sitting ‘behind’ the auction ’suction cup crowd’, his ‘conscious’ back of the line for the pearly gates slouch, his phantom, smooooth gliding walk that simply gives me the willies every time I see it in the satellite reception room.
_____________________________
For me, Whalerider, these days, I don’t want to remember myself either, so ‘I’ don’t, that leaves plenty of room for more of what self remembering is, i.e., the ‘remembering’, not the ’self’, for when ‘I’ do ’self-remember’ there’s nothing there, after all, without context and content, what is the self but pure presence, clear, like that fountain that contains Rumi’s Law Books and two whales?
There is a place where circumstance stands still.
___________________________________
Love to you Whalerider, you are absolutely (not) alone in all this: the desert does not blow around the Buddha, rather, through him (or her). Take gentle care friend.
l.t.y.a.
P.S.
BTW
Happy 800th birthday Rumi
Ames (21 / 603)
I almost always agree with your posts, Ames. And fully respect your take.
But in my view one of your the recent posts needs an addition to be more fully true. It is probably true that most students in a position of responsibility for the past 10-12 years were as you described – in on “it.” Though even until recently – perhaps even now? – I doubt if most students, even those in positions of responsibility, understood the shockingly large scale of Robert Burton’s sexual impropriety.
I write to correct this as inadvertently the idea that everyone knew – may even now further wound those who were wounded. Also, to bear witness as accurately as possible. The proposition that “everyone knew” was decidedly NOT the case in the earlier days of the Fellowship of Friends.
For example, when I found out in the very late 70s, it was because Robert Burton had sent a troublesome student (read: one who knew the truth – and had to be sent away because of it) from The Property to an outlying center where I was in a position of responsibility. The memory is still clear – being in the dining room with this poor student as he explained patiently to me (again and again) the ridiculous idea that The Teacher was a homosexual who had relations with students.
By the way, this student was a homosexual and had not had relations with Robert Burton. But he indicated that he had a sense about people who were as he was – and had gotten a story from another young non-homosexual man who had had reluctant relations with Robert Burton.
The homosexual student indicated that his “research” had confirmed his suspicion that Robert Burton tended to a passive (receptive) role in sexual activities, and further indicated that like a certain subset of homosexuals Robert Burton preferred to have sex with heterosexuals. He told me that Robert Burton had found out about his “research” and this was the reason that he had been sent away from The Property.
In my innocence (the depth of which is a measure of how deeply Robert’s behaviors were hidden), I thought that this student was quite LITERALLY crazy – and I was humoring him along for the better part of an evening trying to figure out what to do about him. Well into the evening it suddenly came in a flash and penetrated that he might be telling the truth. This was a jolt that shook me to the quick. It would be hard to overstate this effect.
Later that night I called Robert Burton on the phone and asked him about this. He said (verbatim) about himself, “you have to play the hand you’re dealt.” Then he asked me to “release” the student from the Fellowship of Friends. I told Robert Burton that I could not do this – as the person had confided this information to me in sincerity and as a part my effort of trying to figure out why he was sent here. Robert got very angry and then calmed down and indicated that it was a weakness of my body type – that later I would learn to be more ruthless. And that for now he would honor my decision.
I spent the next few weeks trying to find out what was going on – and who knew what. I found that, with one exception, all of the “older students” queried (in a non-revealing manner) did not know. This highly focused effort on my part included Joel F and Sandra C and many others. Inevitably they gave the accepted wisdom: that Robert Burton had indicated and seemed to be fully celibate – and saved his sex energies for higher states.
Finally, one meeting-night at the Skyline Community Church in Oakland, California (where the big weekly meetings were held) I spoke privately with Miles B. He said yes Robert Burton was having homosexual relations with students. That he did not know what to think of it – but that he (Miles) had been reading up on homosexuality and generally trying to study on it and think about it. Miles then told me in a straight forward manner that he really didn’t understand it, but it did NOT seem right or good; it seemed very wrong for a teacher to engage in such activity with his students.
It took me a little while, but as soon as possible I removed myself from any and all positions of responsibility or prominence in the Fellowship of Friends. It took longer to leave. By the way, on next seeing Robert Burton he gave me a big wet sloppy kiss on the mouth — I was privately disgusted. And from that time on, when looking around I could see the signs and encouragements to homosexuality (a funnel directed toward Robert Burton) in many aspects of the physical school and teaching. It had always been there but I did not have the non-naïve eyes to see until then.
It was a terrible thing to no longer be able to indulge the luxury of being naïve. During the years long process of processing – which was one of deep loss – really of grieving (what, innocence lost, amputation of a spiritual limb?) – I was better able to understand things somewhat more clearly. Though it wasn’t until actually leaving the Fellowship of Friends and time gone by that the understanding grew more certain – and surprisingly now the blog …
Robert Burton had designed a form whereby largely the people in responsibility did NOT know his crimes. They (read: we) welcomed vulnerable students into the fold. The blowback that you sometimes heard from people returning from The Property to your center – did not compute. We didn’t know. And the vulnerable students, in retrospect, based on our dull responses must have assumed that we knew and were in on it, or that we didn’t know and wouldn’t believe them. So they were very effectively isolated.
It is ludicrous to think that Robert Burton “believes” or understands the idea of C-Influence that he promotes. If he did, it would be impossible for him to act in these ways. My present understanding is that Robert Burton is a spiritual criminal. His enablers have terrible karma. And Robert Burton’s karma is far worse – with the final payment having not yet been fully rendered.
“But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.”
The form of the Fellowship of Friends was a thoughtful systematic construction of great cunning and wickedness – designed and controlled by Robert Burton. The “older” students, leaders, good students and regular students all – were beards for Robert Burton. Our role, my role, was one of naïve attraction and naïve concealment. And the activity which involved great shame for the violated and isolated went hidden or unbelieved for years if not decades (and for some will likely never be revealed).
Of course, there were students who knew back then. But it is my belief and educated sense that the great majority did not. I would like to note here in passing and acknowledge with respect that of the reputed “conscious beings” that I personally knew in the Fellowship of Friends, Miles B had the most integrity and Donald McD, not short on integrity either, easily had the most panache.
“It was a terrible thing to no longer be able to indulge the luxury of being naïve.” ‘Old FOF’
_________________________
Yes, and this, the beginnings of the birth pains of your ’soul’.
Beautifully stated one line… thank you for this, thank you.
:.)
“My present understanding is that Robert Burton is a spiritual criminal. His enablers have terrible karma. And Robert Burton’s karma is far worse – with the final payment having not yet been fully rendered.”
“But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.”
——————————————————————–
Thanks Old FOF #13 – This is the cold, hard truth of the matter.
Robert Burton and his enablers (there are many and we know who they are) are in a very, very bad place. If they could acknowledge this they might have the possibility to redeem themselves. Working to expose this sick situation is an obligation of all who now know and understand.
1/Graduates
Your quote is correct, but it is not from 1970. It appeared in the Via Del Sol Journal on February 29, 1972, Vol. I, Issue No. 24, page 1.
Source: http://web.archive.org/web/20010408205237/http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8444/burned.htm
Hello friends,
Four of us just returned from a great European vacation, and let me tell you – the Network that GF has to offer really works!
Many people haven’t yet left FOF for fear that the global network of like-minded people would be lost with their departure.
The Greater Fellowship Network not only beautifully fills this need, but it allows one to spend wonderful time with friends without the heavy unnecessary baggage we have all experienced while in FOF. It wasn’t necessary to have your “best student” act (or false personality) on while traveling. It was a great pleasure to meet friends unconditionally, without judgment, expectations, certain learned behaviors, dress codes and silly exercises. Our essences truly seemed to flourish when unrestricted by limiting rules and open to free expression. We haven’t missed stuffy FOF meetings one bit!
We would like to sincerely thank all of you friends for spending time with us in Prague and Amsterdam: Michael, Layne, Ziga, Wolfgang, Margrit, Donald, Diane, Anna, Rita, Maria, Luda, Ira, Nicholas and Janine.
It was great to be with you, to share food and wine, and to have great conversations. Your presence made our trip emotionally rich and memorable.
Thank you for making yourselves available to spend time with us, and please let us know when you’re coming to New York – all of us will be more than happy to host you and show you a good time.
We encourage all GF-rs to use this wonderful network, to post the info about your upcoming travels and to try to connect with old friends and meet new ones.
With love,
Greg, Janna, Peri and Todd
New York
It’s time lovers to start hitting some ‘line drives’; I wonder what the Governor of California would say to the allegation (wonderment) concerning how it is that, in light of Enron, 911 and so much ‘physical’ terrorism, California does nothing to remove one person from ‘Spiritual-Sex-Terrorism’ ?
Yes, this is this winter’s new ‘Word!’ upon the psyche of the Earth’s geological point called ‘California’ and to whom ever ’seems’ to be in charge of ‘her’ (as most things men are in charge of are usually named in the feminine)…
Yep, ‘Spiritual-Sex-Terrorism”, I wonder what that would do for California’s tourism and republican/democratic onlookers?
I mean, how many times can one say ‘Dah’ before simply turning it into the Eleventh Commandment?
I ask all who ‘will’ to write the California Governor’s Office a little reminder, that, right under their noses, their’s some serious shit being stirred by Robert Burton’s dick.
Word!
:.)
Old FOF
Thanks for sharing and I think you are correct that the karma is really bad. I wish you and I are wrong….
Thanks and all the best to you and all the healing in the world for all the pain and misery inflicted by the fellowship of friends and Robert Burton.
Many of us were part of the lies…
Time will heal the wounds…..and love and friendship.
There is help.
Ames 21/604
21/585 More History Needed
and to Unoanino/Res Ipsa Loquitor
I know I am not part of your community, so I hesitate always about making any comments. But sometimes the things you say strike so powerfully at my heart that I cannot help but speak up and get involved.
Your story was so unbelievably powerful to me, More History Needed. The calm, matter-of-fact description of your rape at the hands (mouth?) of Robert Burton made me want to reach through this computer screen and hold your hand to my heart for a second and acknowledge how terrible your loss of innocence was–and how vile was the man who did that to you. And, unfortunately, has done it to so many men.
And, Unanimo, your careful work on Res Ipsa Loquitor is unbelievable. I have not read it all–mostly because the anger builds up inside me to such a huge extent, and I have no one to share it with–that I just read for a half hour. That is all my soul can take on any given day. But, thank you, thank you for all the long hours such dedication to a project that casts light on the disgrace at Oregon House has cost you. If others have not read your hard work, I hope they take the time to do so.
I have a suggestion for you as a group. When Whalerider and More History Needed shared in such stunning detail the stories of their emotional, sexual, spiritual abuse in such quiet, heartwrenching detail–it makes it clear to all why the FoF must end, why Robert Burton must be stopped, and how hundreds of you have been horribly abused. Could one of you set up a webpage like Res Ipsa Loquitor where these simple stories of being abused are assembled all in one place? If each one of the men who endured Robert’s predatory attacks shared their stories it would help others to speak up, and others to stop denying the reality of the abuse. Also, I think very much that the women who have had to watch and worry about their men and suffered their own tragic losses of marriages, relationships, unborn children should also be shared on that same page. Let them tell the story of what they suffered, and how it felt. And, those children, who want to share their stories about what has happened to them growing up within the Fellowship also need to be heard.
But telling them in story form like More History Needed will make clear to anyone reading what is the true evil going on within the community is, and it may be one more step that will finally bring this all to an end.
Again, I apologize for interfering with my comments, but you have all become very real to me as I look in at this blog. I feel as if I know many of you, and it wounds my heart that such an evil has been committed. Speak up please so that it ends this year!
20 ~ Observer ~
You’re the only community I know of, so, not sure what all the apologies are for, unless you’re an undercover alien from another solar system… Your posting is honest and worthy to read more than once (and then some) as a reminder as to where many began from, i.e., a place of deep resonance with the ability to love innocently, pure, without parental hindrance and any desire to be certified as a “Man #4″ or “Man #$$”…
Thank you for your beautiful freedom and ability to express yourself with only your permission to answer to… you are very fortunate and IMO, need never apologize for your heart having to beat more than once.
l.t.y.a.
I spent some time fishing with my son today
He’s a full seven and three quarters
It’s all catch and release for he and I
We’re all vegetarians.
Bonding with him now
Has taken on a new urgency
As part of my life unravels
Just like my fishing line
Snagged on some unseen rock below the surface
Something I have absolutely no control over
Do I pull the line until it snaps at the bottom
To save some thread of hope
Or cut my losses and run with it?
I think he knows something is up
I’ve told him Mommy and Daddy aren’t getting along
Out of the blue he says,
He doesn’t want a stepfather
In the stories we read they are always mean
Why is it so? I don’t have an answer
His words eviscerate me, I am internally bleeding
As I hold him tight and tell him I love him
Wearing sunglasses hides the tears
The sun dries them for me
Thank you all for being my sun.
Whalerider ~
Having a child in my life as well, I would say, IMO,
take the sunglasses off, hide nothing and do not pull on the snagged line or let it go, dive under and grab the hook, release it and bring it back to the pole.
Children are rememberer’s, sometimes the celestial arrives via itself, other times through a non-family member, an event or a series of linked together dreams and mystical experiences; regardless of the form, your love needs no physical proximity to be effective, no matter the screams and crying, the real will of your love will not be undone by any ‘real force’: children are not immune to illusion, only quicker to react to it’s opiate, find some ‘neutral stories’ of ‘parenting’;
in my case, by no means are my deamons unleashed more so than the ‘real parent’, so, as ‘black & white’ story books go, they’re selfish and written by the lower centers, that’s that… Rumi has a grip on this, you’ll figure something out, not to forget that his story is your story as well…
one of the greatest difficulties for me is seeing the fossils embedded in the sediment of my own soul glowing green and alive every time this ’step-child’ of mine puts it’s hand to my forehead, inquires of my day, questions whether a repimand will follow with forgiveness, etc.
Physical time never asks for our permission, yet, your love and dedication, if it is truly what you wish, needs no form, no rules, only presence and practice, which, I sense you’ve got plenty of… perhaps it’s the physical proximity aspect that’s creating the illusion of ‘make or break’;
believe me, take it from someone who met his mother for four days his entire 40+ years on this planet, conscious intent and conscience is everything…
The five senses are often the ‘hand’ around the throat of the soul and ‘conscious love’ is that one hand clapping, allowing you to breath and him to live that which he is, with and physically without you…
I am finished with trust, screw god, we’ve got enough to do down here than to start with the Absolute or even end with such scale; that stuff takes care of itself, can we take care of ourselves is the issue IMO (?)
l.t.y.a.
To be, or not to be : that is the question:
Whether ’tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die : to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The Heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, ’tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish’d. To die, to sleep;
To sleep : perchance to dream : ay, there’s the rub ;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause : there’s the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor’s wrong, the proud man’s contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law’s delay,
The insolence of office, and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover’d country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o’er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action. – Soft you now!
Act III, scene 1, lines 56-87
Hamlet
William Shakespeare
14 unoanimo
“It was a terrible thing to no longer be able to indulge the luxury of being naïve.” ‘Old FOF’
_________________________
Yes, and this, the beginnings of the birth pains of your ’soul’.
Beautifully stated one line… thank you for this, thank you.
Hmm,
Why not leave the birth pangs of your ’soul’ out of it?
Why not concentate on ridding yourself of baloney rather than using the same old reference points to make a tired point?
Maybe you an Elena should go on a retreat together – No?
Anyone who has more answers than questions is majorly suspect. This is a bloodbath, not a lecture.
R.R.T ~
“bloodbath”… yes, R.R.T., your ‘faith’ in me is a “bloodbath” and when you stop accepting your own self prescribed aborted fetuses as real children of conscious births, then, let me know, until then, stick to your books and don’t go trying to sell me insurance policies: I am already dead and in your pragmatic self-hood hides the mother of both Little Red Riding Hood and her Brother Wolf… good luck, you’ll make a fine Granny.
:.)
Laura
How about when the jock was asked to define history and his reply was: “Well it is just one fucking thing after another isn’t it?”
#25 mr. fishy #2
Ruh Row
When I use the sequence, I often think of all those
who made the same effort before us. I realize that
it is now my turn, and my responsibility to use
it.
Love, Robert
my turn, my responsibility?
total madness.
22/22
Dear WhaleRider, maybe you have more choices than you can see. From your analogy of the fishing line I also had the understanding that you could dive down to untangle it, and with this right effort the solution was not necessarily out of your hands.
There’s a book I love that addresses the mystical and psychological aspects of raising children in a practical way that’s very accessible. It’s the most intelligent read I’ve ever found on the subject and the only one that addresses the totality of a person. It opens the heart and understanding in a way that might serve you well right now. The title is Whole Child/Whole Parent , author Polly Berrien Berends.
Your son doesn’t want a step-father, so you’ve been advised!
Best wishes and success.
To #20 Observer:
Thank you and no apology needed. Your sentiments, perceptions and understanding are welcome and are a big help to the growing tide of awareness that we hope will reach to those inside. The more local people who know what is going on in this closed, sick and insular little group behind its pretty facade the better.
Inspirational school lyrics
Cocksucker Blues
(aka Schoolboy Blues)
(Jagger/Richards)
Well, I’m a lonesome schoolboy
And I just came into town
Yeah, I’m a lonesome schoolboy
And I just came into town
Well, I heard so much about London
I decided to check it out
Well, I wait in Leicester Square
With a come-hither look in my eye
Yeah, I’m leaning on Nelsons Column
But all I do is talk to the lions
Oh where can I get my cock sucked?
Where can I get my ass fucked?
I may have no money,
But I know where to put it every time
Well, I asked a young policeman
If he’d only lock me up for the night
Well, I’ve had pigs in the farmyard,
Some of them, some of them, they’re alright
Well, he fucked me with his truncheon
And his helmet was way too tight
Oh where can I get my cock sucked?
Where can I get my ass fucked?
I ain’t got no money,
But I know where to put it every time
I’m a lonesome schoolboy in your town
I’m a lonesome schoolboy
property Rolling Stones.
Those ‘Yabba Dabba Doo’ Cuff Links Again!
_______________________________________________
“Darnit Barney, I thought I told you to tell Betty to tell Wilma to have to boil my Terradactyl egg for 3 minutes, not an hour!”
________________________________________________
I was under a happy spell for many years, until this big Robert Burton event at our house…This when I suddenly got the first glimpse of an uncomfortable feeling that may be we all are being dooped. Strangely, but before this event I saw nothing wrong, heard nothing wrong and would defend the school like it was my own home – just like you do now.
Our center had to prepare for big Tea.
Our center didn’t have money to rent a large space in the city so we were asked if our house could be used. At that time it was a total construction zone, but we agreed – and gladly so! And we went nuts, preparing for this event and spent thousands of dollars just to make it nice doing temporary improvements just for this event. We even built a temporary wooden fence to disguise the dumpster in front of the house… Of course we never even asked for reimbursement – there wasn’t even a thought about it!
All was done from our heart, sincerely, and we didn’t care how much it costs us… We were good students.
And Robert Burton arrived, and briefly gave his usual keys performance with Asaf, and everyone stared in silence with smiles and glossy eyes. No one haven’t even touched the fine French pastries or tea… I was seated on the couch next to my Teacher and I was in total heaven, listening to his voice so close to me, smelling his fine cologne and feeling the flavor of pastries in my mouth…
Yes, I was actually eating the whole time. Love those pastries, can’t help it! It was caught on camera, and later quite few of my friends called me to tell how shocked they were to see me eat and drink at Teaching Tea.
The event was over, and Robert rushed to the door. And then the ugly “cuff link scene” occurred. Robert Burton was rushing his boys to run get the car, to get to the city quickly, before the jeweler closes… One of them asked: Robert, do you really want these cuff links?” – “Yes, yes! I told you. I want them! Hurry up, get the car, let’s go. Now. Quickly. Call him, now, make sure he is still open…” His face was tense, he sounded… just like an identified angry guy. Yes, he was very identified. I have never seen my teacher like that, although I heard stories before.
My boyfriend and I were allowed to stand nearby and so we heard every word. Suddenly he turned to us and gave us one of those peaceful loving smiles… The smile we know and love so much… That makes you feel OK…
But I felt so bad. I felt deception. I felt like this was all fake and we were just taken, used by this powerful man… He just used us, our friends and our house to make good money on his brief performance and now is done with us and rushing to get what he wants. And doesn’t give a damn about this huge crowd of devoted students, who love him and made huge efforts to travel to our place from all over just to spend time with him… A stupid piece of jewelry was – obviously – so much more important to him than all of us.
I had mixed thoughts in my head, I couldn’t understand, justify, explain all this. And it only got worse, when I returned to the kitchen. I saw that all these polite good students, who were just nobly “preferring presence over food” in front of the Teacher (Robert Burton), were now devouring pastries right from the plates by the sink, using their hands, stuffing their mouths like hungry beasts! This was just hysterical. The falseness and hypocrisy of the whole thing was unbearable.
I suddenly saw things in a different light.
This event was a first wake-up call for me. I still needed few more like this, and I had them soon after that. I guess everybody has to have theirs to pry open their shell.
Question to Siddiq and Howard Carter (or anyone who wishes to answer) – do you ever see any hypocrisy and falseness in Robert, in Council actions, students behavior, in teaching events? Ever?
If yes – what do you say to yourself about it? I am really curious.
395/9/No Person
Thank you Old FoF for your clarification. I think for the past seventeen years that I was in the Felllowship, the multiple absurdities walked around in day light for anyone willing to look at them. One of the problems is that we all wanted to be in a conscious school working for something better than life so badly, that we willingly overlooked the absurdities, humiliations, rapes, until a violent enough shock was able to focus on the reality of the general decadence better than one’s own inflated desire.
I personally did not believe my own reality check for such a long time and thought that at least these people were trying to work for something worthy. It was when it became shockingly clear that they weren’t willing to work for anything but Robert’s lust, that the whole thing took the dimensions it has taken.
Turbot, I’ll gladly move out when you start saying what I wish to say. You’re trying to photograph something that surely many think, why don’t you dare say exactly what it is instead of giving me petty negatives? Can’t you get yourself standing firmly enough to even give a photograph? Is that why you hit instead of click? Looks like they damaged your camera in the Fellowship because like Robert you can’t respect enough of the person in front of you to talk. What makes you think you can stand Unoanimo next to me? Does that give power to your blow? You can’t even bear when he says thank you? You think you’re more constructive? Or can you do nothing but destroy like so many who make of saying no their only crystallized gesture and deny to dialogue. You get fixed in your personal dislikes, like with Joel and then nothing can come out of his mouth, no matter how decent, because you turn it into shit, but the shit is in your heart and you don’t care to clean it. There’s another lecture for you and many in store so keep inviting me because I am happy to serve you as much as anybody else.
26″ Anyone who has more answers than questions is majorly suspect. This is a bloodbath, not a lecture”
27 unoanimo
“bloodbath”… yes, R.R.T., your ‘faith’ in me is a “bloodbath” and when you stop accepting your own self prescribed aborted fetuses as real children of conscious births, then, let me know, until then, stick to your books and don’t go trying to sell me insurance policies: I am already dead and in your pragmatic self-hood hides the mother of both Little Red Riding Hood and her Brother Wolf… good luck, you’ll make a fine Granny.
Hard to make out the meaning in many of your posts, Eenymeenyminymo, they seem rather random. 26 was meant the other way around, I was pointing out that this is a bloodbath not a lecture and to be careful of folks with answers, especially self righteous folks with answers.
It’s really happening, “as if by magic”.
I can feel it, can you?
For everything there is a time under heaven.
My perception at present is that these people are “magicians”. Just look at the sheeps’ dazed-out eyes…
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=3cDgOf2Om28
A note to current FoF members,
If you have been reading the blog for long you will have seen a lot written about the shocking and abhorrent excesses in the areas of sex and money. For me, when I left so many years ago, these were issues – but they were definitely not my entire reason for leaving. If I had really understood the depth of the depravity and the degree of harm being inflicted, perhaps they would have been. But for me there was an even larger issue – namely that the Fellowship had become crippled as a fourth way school.
What do I mean by that? Well, I don’t mean that there were not many sincere and intelligent seekers in the Fellowship. Certainly there were, and that for me was a big plus. But it had always seemed to me that a true school, and in particular a conscious school, would be a place where the teacher, because of his greater insight into the work and his far more subtle understanding than my own could provide practical guidance by showing us how ideas were being misunderstood, so as to create a deeper understanding. In other words, the school would transmit ‘C Influence’.
In the Fellowship, of course, the term ‘C Influence’ has devolved over time to become simply a synonym for ‘God’ or ‘the gods’. When used in this way it is slowly leached of any deeper meaning. But it is clear that as it was described by Ouspensky it referred to something that originated in higher mind and that could not be transmitted properly in writing, and which was therefore transmitted in and by schools. So it seemed to me that if the Fellowship were a Conscious school, this process would be occurring. And yet there were so many ways in which it seemed it was not. And this was visible in how work ideas were understood, or perhaps more correctly, not understood in the school, and in how we students worked and worked together.
Most people who have spent a significant amount of time studying the fourth way will realize that there is a certain subtlety to the ideas there. You can take them in a simple dull sort of way and they are lifeless, or you can appreciate the nuance they contain and see a more significant meaning behind the obvious. Surely this would be the true value of C Influence – to guide us to the deeper truths hinted at by the words, and to free those truths so that they illuminate us. Would C Influence not be the breath that brings the ideas to life, so that they are dynamic rather than static?
But unfortunately this was not happening. Over and over again I saw central ideas of the work seem to collapse into formatory thinking in a way that was amazingly hard to resist. ‘C Influence’ became simply a synonym for ‘the gods’. Not expressing negative emotions became a tool for suppressing inquiry and dissent, to the point that asking an honest question could be very dangerous. Exercises introduced by the teacher, which seemed to be perfectly good tools when introduced, became moral imperatives with which students judged each other (thereby utilizing one of the few acceptable forms of expressing negativity). Alchemy became the class/status mechanism for the Fellowship, once again used to judge people. The instinctive center became ‘bad’ and the emotional center ‘good’, independent of context. In short, all these ideas were being taken in a static formatory way most of the time. And unfortunately there was no sign that the teacher even noticed.
I struggled for a long time with this. I certainly have my own style of arrogance, but I am not the sort of person who would easily assume that I was the only person seeing this correctly and that the other 2,000 obviously intelligent people in the school were simply wrong. Of course, now I know that many others were thinking about these same issues, but at that time it was simply not acceptable to speak about certain things, so I didn’t realize that I was not alone in thinking these things. This was, of course, yet another sign that the school was not functioning properly as a conscious school. How could a conscious school be a place where certain questions are impermissible?
So what about you, current FoF student? Does the Fellowship operate as a conscious school for you in some way that it did not for me? I haven’t been there for a long time and certainly things have changed – but I am not hearing anything that makes me think these issues have improved over the years. Do you find yourself needing to make excuses about certain aspects of the school because you don’t want to lose other things, or lose your friends? Perhaps that could be sensible – but to my mind, only if it were really a conscious school. So is it for you? It is not being negative to think deeply and honestly about that question. If you want to awaken there can be no subject that is off-limits.
Leaving the Fellowship is a scary thing, particularly if you have believed. Despite my thinking, as outlined above, I certainly hesitated to leave. But I can say that I have never regretted it, with the sole exception of missing the company of some of you who remain.
Best to you all,
R.
I remember a student asking Robert at a dinner, “Robert, exactly what do you mean when you talk about the Gods.”
He just shrugged and said, “The Gods. The great immortal Gods.”
RobertC said:
“Over and over again I saw central ideas of the work seem to collapse into formatory thinking in a way that was amazingly hard to resist. ‘C Influence’ became simply a synonym for ‘the gods’. Not expressing negative emotions became a tool for suppressing inquiry and dissent, to the point that asking an honest question could be very dangerous. Exercises introduced by the teacher, which seemed to be perfectly good tools when introduced, became moral imperatives with which students judged each other (thereby utilizing one of the few acceptable forms of expressing negativity). Alchemy became the class/status mechanism for the Fellowship, once again used to judge people. The instinctive center became ‘bad’ and the emotional center ‘good’, independent of context. In short, all these ideas were being taken in a static formatory way most of the time. And unfortunately there was no sign that the teacher even noticed.”
and
“If you want to awaken there can be no subject that is off-limits.”
This entire post is very important to me, and the above quoted sentence is the kernel of the truth of why the Fellowship of Friends was not a conscious school for me. Absolutely spot on.
36
RobertC
“If you want to awaken there can be no subject that is off-limits.”
I doubted my own observations and questions SPECIFICALLY because others I connected with and cared for or admired and respected were so sure. Years lost with the 600-pound gorilla there all along…….
It’s a pleasure now to remain emotionally connected with those I care for and have the freedom to ‘agree to disagree’ at times — like on this blog! The memory of the former psychology is very painful, and the years lost irretrievable.
Current members, can you hear this and let go? This post is for you.
In my more clear moments I think of you ‘ton and more history needed. Had I stood up when I left, you might have been spared. I am so sorry.
Thank you, Another Name, Yesri baba, Across the River, Old Fish in the Sea, Observer, Xena, unoanimo, KA, Dream Catcher, Joseph G, Elena, Ames, Laura, Aline C, veronicapoe, and Bass Ackwards. I took the time today to re-read all your posts of love and support. This is the beauty of the blog, your support is so easily accessible to me anytime and I need that.
‘I see’ said the blind man ~21-653 and across the river
This is for you.
It was lightly raining earlier today, enough to be felt on our faces. I went out this morning without my jacket to take the kids to school. The fact that it was raining and I forgot my jacket was enough to set me off. Lately, I feel a great loss each time I leave my children at school, and today I felt that sadness on the way to school, because I had neglected myself. I felt as raw as the weather. Again. The rain masked the tears on my face. On the way home, I had to put my forearms in the opposite sleeves of my shirt on for warmth, like the old Chinese do. It felt like holding myself. I do that at night in bed now each night. I cross my arms hold myself because my wife is literally, as she says, “in a different place”.
I wish with all my being that I could dive under and untangle the line that is snagged between me and my wife. I fear that with the weight I have been carrying, I would never resurface. I want more than anything to reel her back to me, yet I am coming to terms with the fact that she feels suffocated in her growth when she is around me. Not only has she expressly made it clear that our issues cannot be ‘fixed’ by me, but I have no idea what netting or ancient relics are tangled down there on that rock; she is not revealing anything. Yet. The water remains murky and the pressure down there is great. Is she protecting me from something? So I float on the surface, gratefully holding on to each of your hands to keep me from sinking.
We have each other to keep us afloat. For free. The only requirement is that we be real with each other. And feel each other’s joy and sadness. I would so do the same for any of you. You all understand the need for the second line of work. My therapist is trained to keep his professional distance. My wife shuts down when I cry. My kids have no clue what I have been through, thankfully.
This blog is the one place where I can drop the façade and express my pain where it might do some good. I am not the kind of person to let others fall into the same hole on the path that I fell into. I am going to leave a big fucking sign for others to see, with neon flashing lights. And I am going to keep putting up that sign until the Fellowship is gone.
When you ask for help from a teacher and his older students, you have to make yourself vulnerable, that’s the deal. Otherwise you would not have joined the Fellowship of Friends. The only predisposition is that you don’t buffer the fact that you need help. Some need more help than others and thus have to make themselves more vulnerable than others. Some get horribly burned and emotionally disfigured. Do you exclude them because it’s too painful to look at? In the end, we all gain from each other’s work.
The pace of Robert Burton’s corrupt ‘school’ is quickening. The truth is as his followers release their grip, it is descending more rapidly. We keep him going with our silence and fear. We are all accountable for each day he continues his crime spree unabated.
Its like we all go into the dark tent and come out again and someone says, “well, its got to be like that old story, and so it must be an elephant!”, so we all agree and share our ‘angles’ about the ‘elephant’. We hardly can hear those screaming and running from the tent yelling “Oh God! Its a 600 pound gorilla!!!”
Yes, I agree that RoberC’s post went to one of the hearts of the matter for me. I remember scribing (the only way I knew of for a nobody girl to get to be able to sit at a ‘dinner’ and listen to what RB had to say, and it was very revealing. I remember him changing the C influence stuff, and I was very disturbed that he could not offer any ‘long’ thoughts. I don’t mean lengthy meanderings, but intelligently-emotional-intelligent thoughts. Only repeated pompous little sound bites, and as scribe I got to see this all too clearly. That , combined with the pervading atmosphere of non-compassion and desire to isolate from life pretty much did it for me. Plus I felt myself becoming emotionally addicted and got lots of warning bells.
More for the UTubers and any trying to bridge the innie-outtie chasm.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dCqW-spwvTk
(translation)
You still haven’t recognized me,
Although I’m standing right in front of you.
I want to talk with you,
But somehow I can’t.
I haven’t seen you for a long time.
I look you full in the face.
I’m looking for an old friend,
But I find none.
Try to remember-
We lived through so much together.
It’s like it never happened.
Nothing left -
All simply erased.
All those many years.
Is it like that with you too,
That you no longer understand me?
It’s like it never happened.
Nothing left -
All simply erased.
All those many years.
Where is the spark that bound us?
Nothing could part us,
I always thought.
Did we really
Once swear friendship?
If there were once a source,
We have lost it.
Try to remember-
We lived through so much together.
It’s like it never happened.
Nothing left -
All simply erased.
All those many years.
Is it like that with you too,
That you no longer understand me?
It’s like it never happened.
Nothing left -
All simply erased.
All those many years.
Your eyes remain blank,
And, without a word,
I understand, and walk by you.
Try to remember-
We lived through so much together.
It’s like it never happened.
Nothing left -
All so far away,
All those many years.
Is it like that with you too,
That you no longer understand me?
It’s like it never happened.
Nothing left -
All so far away,
All those many years.
=====================================
Du hast mich noch nicht erkannt,
obwohl ich vor dir steh.
Ich möchte mit dir reden,
doch irgendwie kann ich’s nicht.
Ich hab dich lang nicht mehr gesehn,
guck jetzt in dein Gesicht.
Ich suche einen alten Freund,
doch ich entdecke nichts.
Versuch dich zu erinnern,
wir haben so viel erlebt.
Es ist, als wäre das alles nie geschehn.
Nichts ist mehr geblieben,
alles ausgelöscht
All die ganzen Jahre…
Ob es dir wohl auch so geht,
dass du mich nicht mehr verstehst?
Es ist, als wäre das alles nie geschehn.
Nichts ist mehr geblieben,
alles ausgelöscht
All die ganzen Jahre…
Wo ist der Funke,
der uns verbunden hat?
Es gibt nichts, das uns trennt,
habe ich immer gedacht.
Haben wir uns wirklich jemals
die Freundschaft geschworn?
Wenn es einen Grund gab,
wir haben ihn verlorn.
Versuch dich zu erinnern,
wir haben so viel erlebt.
Es ist, als wäre das alles nie geschehn.
Nichts ist mehr geblieben,
alles so weit weg.
All die ganzen Jahre…
Ob es dir wohl auch so geht,
dass du mich nicht mehr verstehst?
Es ist, als wäre das alles nie geschehn.
Nichts ist mehr geblieben,
alles so weit weg.
All die ganzen Jahre…
Deine Augen bleiben tot
und ich weiß jetzt Bescheid.
Ohne ein Wort zu sagen,
geh ich an dir vorbei.
Versuch dich zu erinnern,
wir haben so viel erlebt.
Es ist als wäre das alles nie geschehen.
Nichts ist mehr geblieben,
alles so weit weg.
All die ganzen Jahre…
Ob es dir wohl auch so geht,
dass du mich nicht mehr verstehst?
Es ist als wäre das alles nie geschehen.
Nichts ist mehr geblieben,
alles so weit weg.
All die ganzen Jahre…
WhaleRider (around) 40
In my more clear moments…
*********
If I had any good advice that would make a difference I would offer it, I don’t other than some practical suggestions.
Make up your mind that this is done and take the initiative, make practical plans to move out and GET A LAWYER. She will get one and you will need to protect yourself from the person working for her interests. They count on the husband to be crippled by guilt and sorrow. Protect yourself and don’t allow yourself to be stunned into passivity.
Dear dear whale rider, maybe visualizing yourself as Bill Murray aka Steve Zissou might help a bit…
we’re all right there in the submersible with you, all the way to the bottom of the deep blue sea
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=IPMf8G8Pi5o
Graduates 43
WTF?
Brother Sun, Sister Moon
Donovan/Zeffirelli 02:45
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=9wfXR_ct0jc
Brother Sun, Sister Moon …
Brother Sun and Sister Moon
I seldom see you seldom hear your tune
Preoccupied with selfish misery
Brother Wind and Sister Air
Open my eyes to visions pure and fair
That I may see the glory around me.
I am God’s creature, of Him I am part
I feel His love awakening my heart.
Brother Sun and Sister Moon
I now do see you, I can hear your tune
So much in love with all that I survey.
The Wall
A female CNN journalist heard about a very old Jewish man who had been going to the Western Wall to pray, twice a day, every day, for a long, long time.
So she went to check it out. She went to the Western Wall and there he was, walking slowly up to the holy site.
She watched him pray and after about 45 minutes, when he turned to leave, using a cane and moving very slowly, she approached him for an interview.
“Pardon me, sir, I’m Rebecca Smith from CNN. What’s your name?
“Morris Fishbien,” he replied.
“Sir, how long have you been coming to the Western Wall and praying?”
“For about 60 years.”
“60 years! That’s amazing! What do you pray for?”
“I pray for peace between the Christians, Jews and the Muslims.”
“I pray for all the wars and all the hatred to stop. ”
“I pray for all our children to grow up safely as responsible adults, and to love their fellow man.”
“How do you feel after doing this for 60 years?”
“Like I’m talking to a fuckin’ wall.”
Brother Sun, Sister Moon
Donovan/Zeffirelli 02:45
Alternative link:
http://www.youtube.com/v/9wfXR_ct0jc
Dear Old FOF,
You are quite right, I took out the house painting brush to do a portrait, and so my message lacked precision and nuance.
I was coming from the point of view of learning, a few weeks after I got the boot, that the center director when I joined in London, Peter B_sh_p., had been ‘insincere’ when I asked about Burton’s celibacy at that time. He sold me the line that Burton was celibate and ‘used this energy to maintain higher centers and states’; in fact, according to what he personally admitted to me in 1994, Burton and he had had a prior sexual relationship, and it was ongoing (from time to time) when I asked the question in 1978.
I agree with your point generally. I had several long conversations with Stella after I left, and she described her journey of discovery; in the essentials, the same as yours, including disbelieving accounts from those who, in hindsight, surely knew the truth. She disbelieved for over five years, and actually stepped up her efforts to protect Burton in response to the stories; a strong part of this was probably to defend her own worldview and investment in her belief system. I did the same, so it is safe to assume the possibility for everyone else.
Thanks for pointing out that surprisingly few members and directors knew much for many years, and for sharing the details of your personal story.
And thanks, David, for setting me right about Milton as the source of my quote. Hopefully, that error didn’t distract from the message.
Thank you, Sheik, for ‘keeping at it’, despite your present difficulties, and thanks to all the contributors to this fascinating conversation. I’m learning a lot.
With love to you all,
Ames
St. Francis –
Brother Sun Sister Moon
(São Francisco) 07:19
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=B43AIvPiNaQ
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace
Where there is hatred, let me sow love
Where there is injury, let me sow pardon
Where there is doubt, let me sow faith
It is in giving that we receive
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned
It is in dying that we are born;
That we are born to eternal life.
Where there is despair, let me sow hope
Where there is darkness, let me sow light
And where there is sadness, let me sow joy.
O Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek
to be consoled as to console —
to be understood as to understand —
to be loved as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive.
It is in dying that we are born to eternal life.
Francis of Assisi
————————–
If You Want Your Dream To Be …
If you want your dream to be
Build it slow and surely.
Small beginnings, greater ends
Heartfelt work grows purely.
If you want to live life free
Take your time go slowly.
Do few things but do them well
Simple joys are holy.
Day by day,
Stone by stone,
Build your secret slowly.
Day by day,
You’ll grow too,
You’ll know heaven’s glory.
If you want your dream to be
Build it slow and surely.
Small beginnings, greater ends,
Heartfelt work grows purely.
If you want to live life free
Take your time go slowly.
St. Francis –
Brother Sun Sister Moon
(São Francisco) 07:19
Alternative Link:
http://www.youtube.com/v/B43AIvPiNaQ
St. Francis –
Brother Sun Sister Moon
(São Francisco) 07:19
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=B43AIvPiNaQ
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace
Where there is hatred, let me sow love
Where there is injury, let me sow pardon
Where there is doubt, let me sow faith
It is in giving that we receive
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned
It is in dying that we are born;
That we are born to eternal life.
Where there is despair, let me sow hope
Where there is darkness, let me sow light
And where there is sadness, let me sow joy.
O Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek
to be consoled as to console —
to be understood as to understand —
to be loved as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive.
It is in dying that we are born to eternal life.
Francis of Assisi
Laura (around) 45
Graduates 43
WTF?
***********
Usually when one or another spouse initiates the preliminary stages of a breakup he or she is already involved with someone else. The sooner the aggrieved party faces the facts the better off he or she is emotionally and financially. It’s a hard world and there is nothing harder about it than the oscillations of love.
“Usually when one or another spouse initiates the preliminary stages of a breakup he or she is already involved with someone else.”
Not true, they may have also simple reached their limit. Your statement is simply not true.
Bruce (around) 53
“Usually when one or another spouse initiates the preliminary stages of a breakup he or she is already involved with someone else.”
Not true, they may have also simple reached their limit. Your statement is simply not true.
*******
Obviously there is no statistical evidence to prove or refute the assertion, but I’m pretty sure that most of the time it is the case. At any rate one is foolish not to at least suspect as much.
Graduates/44
Not what Whalerider is looking to hear, but very solid advice IMO.
Whalerider, I think that if it appears that you have reached a point where you cannot live together, then it will be in everyone’s (especially the children) best interest to keep things as amicable as possible. I would try working through a mediator first. It wouldn’t hurt to have a lawyer lined up if a plan B is needed.
veronicapoe– I think you must be a man in virtual drag.
(This didn’t seem to go through the first time, so I hope it doesn’t come up double.)
Hello, dear blog-friends!
Well, I am still around. I’ve been an “ex-student” for 19 days now, and everything is fine — thanks, in part, to your consistent, ethereal support.
I’m pretty sure that this question has been asked at some point in the previous 12,500 posts or so on this blog, but here goes…
Does anyone know of one or more professional therapists in Northern California that might be of help to some of those who are transitioning away from the Fellowship? Perhaps offering ‘pro bono’ work or reduced fees?
I do have my reservations about therapies and therapists. The best recommendation I have received so far, and which I heartily endorse, is “ACT” — “Acceptance and Commitment Therapy.” It seems more ’spiritually’ than ‘behaviorally’ oriented, and is a practical approach.
But sometimes reading a self-help book is not enough.
My sense is that some who post here, and many who don’t, could benefit from professional help in their transition, but either can’t find it, can’t afford it, or don’t know they need it.
Your thoughts and advice would be appreciated…
xena,
I don’t believe that Whalerider necessarily needs a lawyer to act on his behalf or that aggressive conduct is likely to be beneficial. I *do* think that men in such circumstances can benefit from being shown that there are worthwhile alternatives to weepy, wounded passivity. The weepy, wounded posture is more likely to repel a partner than to win her back.
It is a bit embarrasing to want to share in your plight so personal, and yet, don’t allow for doubt to enter as is suggested in some posts. If you love, keep loving until there’s nothing else to do and let her go all the way through that so that you too can live it without having left anything out. It is never too late big Whale. Not for one’s self. Stay close, stay patient, let her know she is safe around you, don’t you make any moves to separate yourselves. It takes a long time for one to really be ready for that move. And yet, don’t beg. Love your self with humility. Bring joy.
Whalerider.
I’d like to take some words back. Don’t be afraid of begging for what you really want. You might not get it but the Universe gives something else equally freeing.
61 Elena
I don’t want to rip your last two posts to shreds for the sake of it, but would like to take you up on what you seem to be implying, i.e that if you are nice, sincere, patient and loving you will be repaid by virtue of some higher law that says you will.
Do you really believe this? If so, on what basis?
KA circa 41
Your description of RB’s ‘dinner performances’ that you saw while scribing matches my impressions very well. Certainly RB is no master thinker – but even more than that he was not perceptive. Not everyone needs to be a deep thinker, but I would really expect a conscious teacher to notice interesting and relevant issues and to point them out. Perhaps rarely that sort of thing did occur – but it was certainly not the norm, and certainly not in a venue like dinners.
I remember vividly a dinner that was held at Anna Gold’s house near the property after an exquisite operatic performance at the town hall. It was the usual dinner for 12 or so, and included Anna, me, Robert, and the two opera ’stars’ who had performed, and a number of other students. As the dinner progressed Robert spent almost all his time ‘courting’ the singers, making little jokes, giggling with them about this and that.
At first it was just amusing, but it went on and on, and I began to feel embarrassed for him because it seemed so shallow and obvious. It seemed so false personality. And then slowly I started to get angry, which naturally I did not express, what with being a ‘good student’ and all. I started to think, is there any way that he could be doing this as some sort of perverse object lesson for us? And my answer was no. He was just indulging himself. I looked at Anna, who was a good friend, and my discomfort must have been showing in my face, because she gave me one of those classic eye rolls she could do as if to say ‘yes, he’s really off the reservation this time.’ But her look also said ‘don’t say anything’.
Still, I didn’t set aside the possibility that his behavior at the dinner could have been some great lesson. Surely I must have misunderstood, and he was behaving this way intentionally so that we could see our expectations, etc, etc.
But no, in the end I don’t think I was wrong. Every time I dined with him after that he either seemed bored and distant and disengaged, or in some form of excited silliness like he had been that evening. In every case he seemed self-indulgent. I never saw him really teach in that setting.
Pretty sad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGnvLa-P7X4
Laura: This one’s for you. It’s another classic. You Youtube junkie you!
#22/58 My2bits
Rul_k Per_a recently left and is a trained psychologist, besides being a wonderful man. Even if he is not able to help you directly, he may have some good advice and recommendations.
Best wishes.
As Charles pointed out:
“In any case, there’s a big difference beteween a FoF member learning from the friction of being in the FoF and a jew learning from the friction of being in a concentration camp: the FoF member chose to be in the FoF, the jew didn’t choose to be in the camp.”
As Charles insists, FOF members chose to join, and never had to obey orders at the risk of being shot or beaten like the unfortunates in a concentration camp. I have never even heard of a physical threat in the FOF, has anyone? Unlike other cults like Osho, Siddha Yoga, Sai Baba…
It would be very easy to give in and blame the Nazís or an unjust God if you were their victim, so all the more praise to those who survived and actually improved in such horrific circumstances.
Given that we all volunteered with the aim to awaken or evolve or similar, it gives more weight to the exhortation to find positive and useful attitudes to gain from the experience rather than just create a past filled with negativity.
A lesson I learned from the FOF is that our attitudes are supported by the words we express. So the person who habitually complains about the weather will tend to be a negative person with destructive thought patterns, but the person who is grateful for the rain for his garden will tend to be more positive in general.
Thus if we try to not express negativity we can foster more positive attitudes, so long as we are congruent in that, and not just superficially masking the negativity.
So any hardship can be accepted, worked with and overcome.
Our internal world is like a garden – we can pull out the weeds (the useless or harmful aspects of our mechanics) and we can feed the flowers (the beautiful and useful aspects).
We can create a beautiful harmonious garden inside with this work, or we can just look at the neighbour’s garden and feel jealous about it, or complain about another neighbour’s messy garden.
These are just my thoughts though, correct me if they’re wrong… ;-)
Look at him – he’s a vile Pervert
Thanks Ames #49.
That’s an interesting memory about Stella.
One story I remember her relating (about “the secret”) maybe late 70’s / early 80s – was that on Stella questioning Robert Burton about what a male student had told her about having had sex with him, Robert right then summoned the student over to them together and asked the student in real time, to the effect “did you have sex with me?”
The student apparently stammered a bit and then told Stella no.
Much later Stella found that in fact he had – and that the little kabuki was a ruse or a form of intimidation by Robert of the student.
But it had worked for a while – she didn’t really understand what was going on until some years later.
Also, I wonder to this day what the older stately ladies knew – Rosemary McD, as mentioned above by Robert C: Anna Gold, and the others – they were very good camouflauge and gave the sense of tea sipping gentility that belied the underlying rapacity. Just lace? Or arsenic and lace?
To # 58, My2bits
There are a lot of us that left the Fellowship of Friends as far back as year or more ago. The majority of us are still in the neighborhood (in the foothills). You can call any one of us, we are here to listen, help, give advice etc. As someone suggested R_l_k P_rla is a lovely person as well as a trained qualified pychologist if that is what you feel you need. You are not alone friend – there are many of us, all at different stages of decompressing. Pick anyone you feel comfortable with. We are here.
If you are not in the foothills, there are many others around the world – check out the Greater Fellowship. Many friendly ears.
Good luck, and don’t be afraid to ask for help.
67 Real Reborn Turbot
Fantastic.
Whalerider, You can cry on my shoulder if you like and I will not think you less a man. I will think you more a human for it and that’s a good thing IMO. Crying is a great way to move out stuck emotional energy.
66
Vinnie, are you in sales? Brainwashing is brainwashing and most of us here already bought it and are not interested in renewing the contract.
Combining movement with the sequence – such as
timing one’s movements with each work ‘I’ when
walking – helps prevent interference from the
lower self. This is not the case, however,
during the four wordless breaths.
Love Robert
Combining movement with the sequence – such as
timing one’s movements with each “long be” intentionally enters your anus
– helps promote and prolong presence for the
lower self. This is not the case, however,
during the four wordless breaths it is useful to switch positions to avoid backaches and other problems related.
Love Rolex
http://www.gaydemon.com/dicktionary/anal_sex/
36 Robert C,
Yes,over time RB definitely changed the Fourth Way System,as I first experienced it when I joined, into some sort of ‘mess’ that played right into his abusive behaviour.
But it is necessary to remember that RB was very rarely ’straight’-often he was on so drug or other supplied to him by the fof ‘pharmacy’.
So what can you expect from a ‘druged-out conscius being’?
40
WhaleRider
Hello, friend. I hope the friendship you find here will serve you well so you can set down your burden and relieve yourself and your family of that weight.
Maybe you feel responsible for continuing to carry it. Others are now here on this front and dedicated to righting the wrong, and maybe that means it can be a new day for you. Set it down. Maybe after all this time you don’t know you have a choice. Maybe you have an attachment to your pain. It would be a good place here to explore these questions. Meanwhile, you must pull yourself together so you can remember to take your jacket when you go out in the rain. At this time please do that if nothing more, WR.
With love to you and your family.
Turbot,
We’re deviating some from the current subject but I’ll follow your question.
W. Don’t be afraid of begging for what you really want. You might not get it but the Universe gives something else equally freeing.
Real Reborn Turbot
61 Elena
“I don’t want to rip your last two posts to shreds for the sake of it, but would like to take you up on what you seem to be implying, i.e that if you are nice, sincere, patient and loving you will be repaid by virtue of some higher law that says you will.
Do you really believe this? If so, on what basis?”
Oh yes, with all my heart. Thank you for asking before you shred the posts and hopefully not me in a later post. Thank you for trying to talk, please allow me to take back the harsh words from my post to you.
The only basis is my own experience. The difficult part is that you often have to experience so much pain before you are free from your wanting. If you look at us, we wanted consciousness. What we are experiencing now is the pain from that wanting. But the sincerity of that wanting, of the efforts we made will hopefully free us from that wanting and make us more human. Who knows. What I am very clear about is that I sincerely believed and worked for the Arc. The Arc and the Fellowship just separated one from the other. The School is not in a place but in human sharing.
In love relationships you might not get the person you wish to be with but if you’re sincere about your love the universe can grant you freedom from the wish. Don’t be afraid of wanting but then also don’t be afraid of suffering. Every suffering that one experiences is only as much as one is able to carry. Pride and humility stand at the end of that road. There’s joy in the fulfillment of a desire but there’s even greater joy in the freedom from it. When joy and suffering have been distilled, you are still there. You, without joy or suffering but with infinite gratitude.
The Universe, the Gods, your own work and karma, you name it what you wish but it happens and you yourself cannot make it happen. All you can do is be true to yourself. Know yourself, follow your desires like a hunter would follow a deer. Stay very close to them and never hurt the object of your desire who will never really allow you to posses it. It seems that is the key to becoming free, in honoring your desire with its own freedom.
I am a beginner Turbot, but sometimes I have been, I still hurt others. Can we allow for each other to speak freely without having to believe each word of what we say, or agree? Just listen? Question as you are doing? Wonder? Take sips of each others soul as if it were the finest wine? Not disqualify each other no matter how ridiculous I or another might sound? If you let me sit around you, that alone will heal me.
You’ve been much questioning the righteousness and having answers. Don’t be afraid of having sincere answers that you can then replace when you find more sincere ones. What we are most afraid of is our own beauty. Our own beauty is not our own but ours.
I tell you this things, I know them and yet my self worth is still hardly above cero from the last few years in the Fellowship. I am slowly recovering. Sometimes there’s happiness. It is no body’s fault but we’re all responsible. I am trying to not call to blame but to respond.
Thank you for sharing.
graduates 1
I remember conspiratorially informing a close *life* friend of the impending “worldwide depression” that was about to befall humanity… my friend listened to the entire stupid tale and casually informed me that I was in a cult run by a nut. I remember the feeling I had of a knowing superiority and experiencing a little sadness that my friend was not going to “get it.” I went on “remembering myself” with the expectation that the grand scheme of C influence was going to play out just as “The Teacher” predicted.”
this describes perfectly an experience with one of my “life-friends…” we grew up together, we were “best friends” (pause for reflection). after telling him this dark fairy-tale, we lost touch. alienating loved ones from “life” is part of the scheme, the brain-wash, it essentially erases personal history and creates total dependency on the organization.
laura 35
thanks for the video… it feels like a premonition of things to come for the fof…. like dust in the wind.
“My perception at present is that these people are “magicians”. Just look at the sheeps’ dazed-out eyes…”
ya, “these people” (osho, rb, and others of their ilk) might be described as “black” magicians, (there is a spectrum in this regard – from white, to many shades of grey and black). “hypnotists” is another way to describe “these people…” graduates gives a clear example in ironic fashion: “Now you have 1500 people counting toes on old paintings and imagining that they are “present”
vinnie 66
“Thus if we try to not express negativity we can foster more positive attitudes, so long as we are congruent in that, and not just superficially masking the negativity.”
vinnie,
this is part of the problem, when faced with a negative situation, it is only natural and healthy to recognize it as such and in some fashion to “express negativity” — or in the case here at the blog to expose the negative situation. imo, this is the way to “transform negativity” as we used to say. to ignore it, to repress and suppress by “non-expression of negative emotions” is a tool of mind-control and brain-washing. suppression is not transformation.
you say:
“So any hardship can be accepted, worked with and overcome.”
this sounds like the “martyr complex” that is fostered by the fof… “us against the world,” right? it’s true that life does have hardships and we do have to work to overcome, that seems to me to be what the blog is about. maybe if instead of using the word “accepted” you substitute the concept embodied by the word “recognized.” but based on what you’ve written previously, you DO recognize the problem, and yet you continue to defend it… that’s what is so baffling.
you say:
“As Charles insists, FOF members chose to join, and never had to obey orders at the risk of being shot or beaten like the unfortunates in a concentration camp. I have never even heard of a physical threat in the FOF, has anyone?”
according to the accounts of many survivors of the horrors of concentration camps, including the unfortunates who have been subjected to torture at gitmo and other similar situations happening right now, the physical abuse is not as damaging as the psychological damage. the human body can recover from or adapt to physical damage… it’s the psychology (the soul) of the person that continues to suffer for years to come. one of the brain-washing control mechanisms used by the fof is the threat of “eternal damnation,” and loss of one’s soul… if one buys into this hogwash, i can’t think of a better form of coercion… there is no barbed wire fence require for those who believe it. in a sense we do it to ourselves because of what we believe, that’s part of the nature of “sleep” (hypnosis).
Dear Graduates, elena, veronicapoe, across the river, and xena:
Thank you for your posts. You are my lifeline right now.
My mother, who has gone through a divorce from my father, also thinks I should get a lawyer, if not for anything else, to strengthen my ego and consider plan B. My parent’s divorce is another facet of my life that adds a layer of emotion to my situation. My family broke up just before I joined the Fellowship, so I look to you as my family. Mediation is not a bad idea either.
My wife claims there is no one else. I have stopped being weepy in front of her because that indeed shuts her down. I’m just weepy when she’s not around, which is the part of my inner world that I am sharing with you. Our couple therapist is advocating I take a passive approach since my wife feels I have been too domineering and controlling, which is partially due to me and partially due to her attitude toward men in general, for which I think she gets lots of support from her women friends and from our female therapist. So far the passive approach is giving her space to ‘man’ifest her independence more and she appears happier, but I fear that will strengthen the personalities within her that want out. I also sense she may be pulling me to take the active approach as I always have and make my move, thus absolving her of guilt.
Here is a situation where I don’t want to act out of anger or revenge. There has been no play of crime in our relationship. But to be honest with myself, I feel conflicted in that my deeper needs for spiritual connection are not there despite the intimacy being recently shut off. I am also mad at myself for letting my needs go unmet for so long. Plus, there are kids involved. So acting out of my self interest is problematic.
Yet, here I am calling out to others on this blog to face the truth, take action, and divorce themselves from Robert and the Fellowship!
It is clear to me that at the end of the day, we must do what is best for our children and as a civilized society in the case of the Fellowship, the children of others.
my2bits 58
I only wish to address the last part of your question which has to do with those needing therapy and don’t know that they need it.
The more I ponder this question, the more I realize that “only” is quite inappropriate. My mind wants to take off on many and various streets. Clearly I am restricted to addressing myself and some general entity called “my2bits” who is sounding relatively balanced at this time and who at the same time is maybe hinting at some despair and/or confusion.
It is natural to be a little dizzy when getting off a wild roller-coaster ride and the longer the ride has been, the worse I would expect the disorientation to be. First off, just being on this blog-ride is enough to cause anyone to be dizzy, especially if one had a stomach-full prior to getting on.
This is where it is good to have someone to lean on, at least long enough to regain the ability to walk relatively straight. We are all different. Yes that can be kept. Yes it is a thought-addiction. The point I am making here is that we are creatures of habit, addicts of sorts. Some habits were ok while on the ride but now are not. So how to tell the useful from the not useful?
As always the goal is the number one consideration, the future, the destination. Personally, my programming is and has been such that I find it frustrating to make attempts at discovering my goals. I followed my nose to the “school” and followed it “out” and as my mother always told me, “You don’t know what is hanging down from your nose”. That is a rough translation but means that unsuspected things can happen in the future. For me, that is common, for others, not so common. I cannot know here if my2bits falls in this category or not. However it surely does apply to some and it is important.
So number one. There is nothing like a vacation to regain one’s sense of “where am I and where do I want to go?”
By working on this question the likelyhood of falling for the same old line can be avoided. It makes sense if I walk away from one trip with all the same addictions or predispositions, I will no doubt find myself years later in the same place. We see this all the time in relationships. Sometimes this is freferred to as baggage.
Now this may sound like analogies, but there is an argument being made in some circles, the quantum ones, which theorizes that these habits are physical, that they are based on neurological adaptations. For now, I buy it. It explains a lot. I don’t like my source, but what the heck, it’s the best I have found so far. Enough of that, let’s not go there.
So we’re on a vacation and the aim is to come up with a longer term destination. If we don’t, we run the danger of depression and since that sucks it is clearly worth the effort.
Again I am covering many bases (baseball for possibilities) due to not knowing who I am addressing. For example I have seen that some exers decided that they needed to go back for more education in order to enter their field of choice. Twenty or thirty years of alienation from “life” can lead to shortages in the qualifications especially if one has been focusing on vineyards or wine-making and they are no longer in the picture. Again as we have seen in this blog, sometimes this experience actually has been relevant to a future career. Whatever!
To recapitulate, we first get our bearings and decide on a goal for the immediate future. In doing this it is necessary to focus on positive thoughts. The negative ones help us in knowing what is not wanted, but a conscious effort needs to be made to maintain the positive focus. This is extremely important to maintain a healthy momentum.
All of the above applies physically, psychologically, and/or spiritually. The steps which follow now almost do not need to be mentionned because they will then become obvious. Surprisingly, there was truth to that old adage about the journey of a thousand miles….etc. Allons!
I wish to make an observation regarding the blog. IMO, the last hundred or so posts clearly demonstrate the necessity of developing a sense of direction. Some of these posts are by far the most intelligent, the most promising, and the most rewarding of them all. They have covered so much ground and just when the brass ring comes within reach, just then, splat! I am sure that those to whom this applies know who they are. They seem to not want to pack up the furniture and hit the road, so they start kicking and screaming again. This is what I mean by an addiction. Now I am moving my moving little ass off this page and leave you all with love that is so powerful that it will quickly dry any tears which happen to fall on my keyboard. Must be the a/c. Better submit without edit, Cheers!
I am very weary of therapy these days.
I did some EMDR but a therapist who you trust is crucial. L-n- I is also a source of info for therapy.
For me going through my deepest issue by myself by doing EFT and deep fast breathing and talk to several friends, is my way of doing “Therapy” I have grieved, cried, was angry, spoke with the absolute and whatever…..9 months it took and the sun looks brighter again…and still I am not there and yet I am.
Listening to tapes of Hicks, Adja, Nisagradatta Byron Katie and Harrison.
By best therapist was he who said that, I myself, the stillness in me, when I am quiet is my best teacher/ therapist. Though when I tell him how much he has helped me over the last 5 years he said that it was all in me.
I am weary of a therapist who “knows more then me” That is part of my hurt with Robert Burton.
I GAVE UP MY ‘SELF WILL” AND WAS OFTEN NOT TRUE TO MYSELF.
Thinking about this brings up again a flood of emotions. Most people who will leave now will go through a mourning process that will take up to a year or more. That is how life is. TIME DOES ALSO A GREAT JOB.
There are many possibilities in Nevada City like non violent communication groups and sat sangs.
Good luck.
Dear Whale rider.
You say: but I fear that will strengthen the personalities within her that want out.
Do not worry and give and love…if she goes or not that is beyond you. Do what you can and be the best you are. Be your own best friend. As long as you both seemed to go to therapy that seems a good sign to me.
Do not get in the sibling rivalry with her female friends and therapist. Give it up.
Love yourself, embrace, look at the sun or the clouds. Love your children.
Which mother can resist a man who loves his children…..
Real love and does things with them…
Most women I know and are divorced, the big complaint is that he did not care or showed his care and love for “her”children.
Just a new angle.
77 ‘ton
“it’s the psychology (the soul) of the person that continues to suffer for years to come. one of the brain-washing control mechanisms used by the fof is the threat of “eternal damnation,” and loss of one’s soul… if one buys into this hogwash, i can’t think of a better form of coercion… there is no barbed wire fence require for those who believe it. in a sense we do it to ourselves because of what we believe, that’s part of the nature of “sleep” (hypnosis).”
Remember that story Gurdjieff told about the boy who was placed inside a circle and couldn’t get out of it? I used to wonder what that was all about, thinking it was some form of magic. Now I just think he was talking about this — they tell him, if you leave the circle, you’ll go to hell. Then he’s stuck inside forever, or until he wakes up to the BS.
66 Vinnie the Fish
“Our internal world is like a garden – we can pull out the weeds (the useless or harmful aspects of our mechanics) and we can feed the flowers (the beautiful and useful aspects).”
I know that you are talking about attitudes and psychology, but in my experience it never stopped there. It was always at least as much about externals — about turning all of us into uniform “good student” ‘bots. On the one hand, we were told “You don’t have to be a perfect machine,” and in the next sentence we were told to keep our house so clean it looked like no one even lived there. Of course we were expected to be perfect machines — that dressed alike, talked alike, listened to the same “approved” music. It makes me want to puke to even remember it. You can’t see how deeply it permeates the atmosphere until you step out of it.
66 Vinnie the Fish
“Our internal world is like a garden – we can pull out the weeds (the useless or harmful aspects of our mechanics) and we can feed the flowers (the beautiful and useful aspects).”
God, has this metaphor been driven into the ground!
My question is: How do we know the difference?
Useless=harmful=mechanical/asleep
Useful=beautiful=conscious/awake
A harsh judgement from our Father/protector/persecutor.
Hey, Daddy, look at me: I’m good, I’m worthy, I’ve gotten rid of all my unacceptable bad parts. By a simple act of my own will I have made myself into a creature of goodness and light. Will you love me now?
At the moment, I water my weeds, for they teach me much more about my true self than my carefully cultivated flowers ever could.
Re the therapy question . . . it can be helpful and can shorten the time it might take to integrate an experience on one’s own.
A therapist who has just left the FoF may be a wonderful person and therapist, but might not be the best choice for someone in the same boat. A neutral third party with a relevant background and experience wouldn’t be dealing with their own issues with the same intense situation.
I’d ask around for people with experience working with cult survivors. If that’s not an option, there are licensing boards and local associations that could help. In any case, I’d also talk to the person on the phone and get a sense of them before making an appointment. Some therapists will offer one free get acquainted session, to see if the chemistry works.
And . . . as some have already said . . . let yourself lean on your friends!
84 Kid Shelleen
At the moment, I water my weeds, for they teach me much more about my true self than my carefully cultivated flowers ever could.
————————
I discovered that I have an inner blonde and an inner Betty. The blonde needs to have a little edge in her life or she runs amok and causes trouble, and Betty will leave the house wearing black shoes and white socks with her shirt buttoned incorrectly. This is not meant to malign anyone named Betty — it’s just the name that appeared.
Cultivating Blonde and Betty has been one of the healthiest things I’ve done. The carefully cultivated flowers got all the attention for too many decades, and it wasn’t a balanced situation.
Dear whale rider, Women Who Run with the Wolves might be a helpful read for your wife, just in case she is not familiar with it yet.
This book has been very helpful to me in the years since I left the school, and I think it can carry a healing influence in the lives of many sisters (especially you Fellowship girls!) Inside its stories one can encounter the larger patterns and archetypal forces that rule our lives. Some of the issues explored are love, rage, betrayal, creativity, sexuality, fogiveness, spirituality, independence, depletion, community and intuition.
It’s a long deep read!
http://homestar.org/bryannan/estes.html
WasKathleenW
right on!
“Thus if we try to not express negativity we can foster more positive attitudes, so long as we are congruent in that, and not just superficially masking the negativity.”
Vinnie (the Minnie)
1. you seem to be a paying member of the fellowship of friends
2. desire to appear to be “working” with the non-expression of negativity. Note: the part of that sentence that should be stressed is “desire to appear”
3. you choose to look like you are working with that 4th way exercise (even tho fof is no longer a 4th way group and does not address 4th way ideas at all).
4. you choose to work with the idea in an amazingly simplistic and superficial way
Therefore I would suggest you take your own advise in the quoted section above. Go forth and do your ‘work’! And be happy! Do you work much with the sequence? and the numbered work Is? Why are you here on this blog with people who you can’t engage with other than to express your negativity about?
When you are ready, many voices on this blog indicate ways the writers have wrestled with and benefited from the esoteric meaning of that part of the 4th way (and it is part of many ways).
(Guess I’m in a “Blond” mood!)
whale rider
PS did you read my post at #20-386 about Skeleton Woman?
Re: Therapy.
As I stated earlier in this blog-o-matic, just wait ’til you hear yourself explain your deeply held Fellowship beliefs to a qualified, impartial therapist! I think you’ll find out rather quickly how much of it you believe.
Watch one, this one’s a heartbreaker.
Only for intensive bodyworkers.
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=otx49Ko3fxw
I meant watch out
Dear Laura:
You are my hero! Thank you for Skeleton Woman. What a beautiful read. I’m going to pass it on to my wife, and I am going out to get that book and ‘whole parent/whole child’ too right now.
Dear Another Name:
Thanks. You’re so right, kids are so important. What a gift. I will heed your advice.
Uno, thanks for sharing. We are becoming more human every day.
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=mVkSdf_AMWM
WhaleRider
At the risk of appearing callous, let me offer some generic gratuitous (unasked for) advice based on long personal observation and circumstance.
You may not be married yet. What I’ve come to understand is that real fusion often takes place in couples sometimes (rarely) prior to the wedding and often several years or even decades (and even children) after the wedding. Think “seven year itch.” That a marriage becomes real typically after both parties negotiate a very big interval – typically what the real interval to their collective real possible marriage is. Often this interval seems insurmountable.
Further, that by no means exclusive, male emotional immaturity is often a primary cause.
Given your description of your relationship, it may be that if you are to have a marriage that there will be a lot of work and pain to find each other again on a higher more equal level. From a distance it seems as if you have described it.
That it may involve not words or understanding but a process – meaning taking a lot longer than it seems like it should. That you may need to let her go in order to even have the possibility of finding her again at a higher level. Because you are going to find that at the deepest level you will be forced to value (re-value?) the person that she has become. And this new her is going to have to become convinced of your new re-valuation – and see if the new her values the new you in the same way.
That, though sometimes useful for a time, counselors can frequently do more harm than good.
Finally, you may be forced to ask whether it is worth having true intimacy with a life-long friend and companion, or whether it is better not to have to endure the payment in the face of uncertainty. And the payment can be high – it may involve gaining unexpected true maturity, and bearing what seems unbearable at present.
Some thoughts – if they apply.
“Don’t join false sects!”
“What? Don’t enjoy forced sex?”
‘ton,
I remember you and your lovely wife. It truly pains me to learn that Robert came between you and your childhood sweetheart (pun intended), and deprived you of your child.
To have experienced the full spectrum of human emotion, from those heady, naive days at Renaissance to hopelessness on the streets of San Francisco (as Duncan did) and come through it all with the strength and character you now demonstrate is truly profound.
Thanks for adding your timeless voice to this blog. I salute you both.
I’m reminded of a line from the Super Tramp (sorry) song “It’s Raining Again”:
“Come on you little fighter, and get back up again, fill your heart again.”
Tim
Thanks, friends (Opus 111, flying free, Another Name, Kid Shelleen, and Renald) for your useful and encouraging thoughts about post-FoF therapy.
55
Well, good grief, not too surprising since you’re a Lawyer!
Word!
Vinnie, vinnie,
Vinnie (“In any case, there’s a big difference beteween a FoF member learning from the friction of being in the FoF and a jew learning from the friction of being in a concentration camp: the FoF member chose to be in the FoF, the jew didn’t )
When I joined the fellowship of friends I thought I joined a group of people which aim was to be present and help each other in this aim. People who were trying to form a spiritual community….After the first years the CRAP came in “ predictions, the fear aspect of leaving the School, the increase in donations and the SEX questions. The hurts, the pains….the lies. Vinnie the lies, i joined a big lie…It hurts.
Vinnie: A lesson I learned from the FOF is that our attitudes are supported by the words we express. So the person who habitually complains about the weather will tend to be a negative person with destructive thought patterns, but the person who is grateful for the rain for his garden will tend to be more positive in general.
Yes, these lessons we could have learned within 2-3 years. How to be more present too and how to be independent. Instead we were milked for years and kept “STUPID”, worked my butt off and kept paying and got more and more in the streaks of my so called Teacher of which I am still paying now in many ways.
Can you not see that the fellowship is holding a carrot in front of you, years and years and years…?
Yes, admitting this is very painful and will be a long process so buffering is maybe your way now.
I never thought I would end up like the Germans after the second world war.
“Ich habe es nicht gewust.” ( I did not know)
Vinnie: So any hardship can be accepted, worked with and overcome.
Time will tell you Vinnie, Time will tell you.
Vinnie: We can create a beautiful harmonious garden inside with this work, or we can just look at the neighbour’s garden and feel jealous about it, or complain about another neighbour’s messy garden.
All the gardens are gardens, it is what is. Comparing is FALSE PERSONALITY, dear Vinnie. A lesson learned easily in a month in the fellowship of friends for the fast ones….
Wrong? Look inside yourself and see what your own teacher has to tell you, your conscience, your silence. It is all in you and thinking you need a teacher is :DEPENDENCY, DEPENDENCY.
Hope you grow up and be your own garden. Hope one day you can be a garden for others and support and help them instead of being a “wise guy”.
Good luck for now and “sleep well”.
Dear Whale rider and Ton and Others.
Please feel free to see you inner dark spots
Let them be
Watch
Do not cling on to them
See them as an interesting stranger
Just watch
Do not worry
Or dependent
On other thoughts
Or what they think of you
Be what you are
In your inner silence
Go there and let that inner silent voice
Speak through you
Be that what you are
Love that what you are
Dance with that what you are
Embrace that what you are
Your son will be so proud of you
And will have a jumpstart in his life
Heal yourself and so you heal your son and your family line…
O friends I stop…..
And let Diana Ross sing you a song
Reach out and touch
Somebodys hand
Make this world a better place
If you can
Reach out and touch
Somebodys hand
Make this world a better place
If you can
(JUST TRY)
Take a little time out of your busy day
To give encouragement
To someone whos lost the way
(JUST TRY)
Or would I be talking to a stone
If I asked you
To share a problem thats not your own
We can change things if we start giving
Why dont you
Reach out and touch
Somebodys hand
Make this world a better place
If you can
Reach out and touch
Somebodys hand
Make this world a better place
If you can
(JUST TRY)
If you see an old friend on the street
And hes down
Remember his shoes could fit your feet
(JUST TRY)
Try a little kindness youll see
Its something that comes very naturally
We can change things if we start giving
Why dont you
Reach out and touch
Why dont you (why dont you)
Reach out and touch somebodys hand
Reach out and touch
Somebodys hand
Make this world a better place
If you can
Reach out and touch
Somebodys hand
Make this world a better place
If you can
Love from my heart to you all
My2Bits relative to WasKathleenW’s comment.
R.P. may be too close to it himself?
There is a resource in the Bay Area, the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology. They may be able to offer services or recommend helpful counseling? A long time former student, C.R. works there…
http://www.itp.edu/resources/counselservices.cfm
Good luck…
Bass
84 Kid Shellen,
‘At the moment, I water my weeds, for they teach me much more about my true self than my carefully cultivated flowers ever could’.
Right-on,right-on,right-on!!!!
This is the thing-the fof came out with the same propoganda
message as so called ‘organized religion’,i.e. ‘if you are a good person you will go to heaven-be bad and experience eternal damnation’.
‘Useful/useless’,'mechanical/conscious’ are words, NOT ABSOLUTE DEFINITIONS OF BEHAVIOUR.
How can I know truth?By experiencing un-truth.I am the determinant of what is useful for me,and as well what is useless.
My conscience is a child,and maybe it can grow,but certainly not by being forced into a ‘formula’.
To Vinnie the Minnow,
because you get slammed no matter what and maybe you don’t know why, and also because this blog can be like a peculiar family that I think about at the strangest times :- )
========================================================
Vinnie, I don’t think you understand your ‘audience’ here. In fourth way terms it’s the wrong triad for you to attempt teaching on this blog, except inadvertantly by demonstrating your dependence on the FOF form, a natural condition of that affiliation that is deeply understood here by all. This is a learning place for you or nothing at all.
The baiting posts aside, you’ve posted some sincere comments here IMO and I don’t think you keep coming back just to irritate. Hmmm? Your experiences in the Fellowship are tainted now by all you’ve learned through this blog, but the good news is that you’ve also learned here that when you leave, you leave with what is your own, although you might not recognize that right away.
It’s ‘real’ out here and nobody has an obligation to address you. It’s a place where you’re welcome, though, and hopefully your presence here will prove worthwhile.
RE: Therapy
I mentioned in a previous post that since leaving the lesser-fellowship in ‘83, i’ve spent years and countless hours in various types of therapy which eventually lead me to work in the therapeutic field. i went through an intensive 3 year training in shin-tai shiatsu; it’s traditional zen shiatsu incorporating cranio-sacral technique and theory. i’ve done less intensive workshops and trainings in other modalities as well — breathwork, chi-kung, aikido, tai chi (yes, i think of the martial arts as bodywork) but i return to my shin-tai roots as far as my practice goes. i worked out of a local chiropractic office for several years, currently i do a little bodywork in my home and i do therapeutic work at the school where i teach.
when i left the lesser fof, my first experiences were of the “talk-therapy” variety. i found it to be useful for a while, there was a sense of support and a general catharsis in the process, and i gained a lot of insight through analysis and self-reflection. ( i would say here that talk therapy can be useful but it may not be for everyone, i eventually moved away from a strictly talk-based approach to other modes). i suppose there’s something to be said for the “objective” analysis of a highly trained and educated “paid professional,” the analytic approach in this case can give insights one would probably not otherwise come to… but imo, as much or more in terms of support and catharsis can be gained from a caring, non-judgemental friend who you can really, truly open up to on an emotional level.
later, when i lived in atlanta, i went to a jungian analyst ad did dreamwork, “sandplay” and “drama therapy” all very interesting and useful work. later, i found the writing of wilhelm reich and “ate it up.” that lead me into something called “bioenergetics” which recognizes and works with the continuum of body / somatic processes and mind / psychology. (alexander lowen was a more recent proponent of reich’s work and he wrote a wonderful book called “JOY: surrender to the body”). from doing this work, i realized the importance of reconnecting with my physical nature, i know i went through many years of being cut off from experiencing visceral feelings / emotions, living too much “in the head” as we tend to do in this culture (not to mention the trauma of the fof experience and the difficult transition back to “life”), this has an effect of alienation in relation to the body and “self”… and further effects in relating to others, society, environment etc.
if you begin to explore the therapeutic marketplace, you will discover a multitude of approaches, and it really is a matter of finding what works for you. i know that for a lot of us here who have put our trust into that thing we called “the teacher,” only later to realize that we have been raped and burned as a result, there are going to be major obstacles and issues concerning trust. seeking out a therapist who represents an “authority figure” on some level, to open our soul when trust has been damaged is a difficult thing to do, it takes courage… to go through with it might be an exercise in learning to trust oneself again. you live and learn and if you decide to go the therapeutic route, look at it as an exploration and adventure into your self. in this regard PLANET MEDICINE by richard grossinger… in two volumes might be of interest if you are exploring different modalities.
all the best and well wishes on your journey.
All the Fellowship women should wake up and escape Bob’s school of fags:
a musical offering…
it’s o.k. to move.
c’est la vie.
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=ShzhsPD3K0E
I have been following the posts on this blog for the last week or so after accidentally coming across it through Wiki. Since leaving the FOF, sometime in 1999 I have always tried to keep an eye on the goings on within the FOF. I was somewhat surprised, although perhaps I shouldn’t have been, in yet another name change and more surprisingly in a move away from its original 4th way “nature”. I’m not too clear in exactly what way it has changed and would be grateful if someone can point me to either a previous post or source that summarises, simply curious…
Whilst pondering whether or not to post myself I couldn’t workout what I could contribute or even how, as I really haven’t used this format before (except for one post 495 which seemed to take days in moderation).
So, here goes with a start…
I joined the FOF in 1989 in London. Four years or so after joining I moved to Renaissance, staying with Charles T at first and working in the Winery Office. Six months after arriving, like many others, my marriage deteriorated further and I was soon part of the RB travelling show. I was part of this for around 2 years and could relate stories of sexual impropriety et al, but you have read most of it already and other than how I personally related to it, the stories seem pretty much the same.
After leaving Apollo and eventually returning home, I directed a centre in Scotland for about a year. Moving away, whilst still meeting up with RB in various cities including London, Paris and my favourite city of all Rome, I had space to think from a better part of myself. At that time it became very clear to me that RB and his (very partial) system were not the real deal.
I feel there were many examples of actions taken by RB that clearly exposed this, although at the time any oddity was easily quashed and supported by appropriate associative thoughts. I mean surely lack of sexual control, apparent inability to function and manifest independent of at least some external stimuli, was justifiable…for God sake he’s conscious…isn’t he, surely this doesn’t apply to him, surely 2000 intelligent people cannot be wrong, surely there are reasons I just cannot understand for his actions? We are told that conscience is buried and I feel the actions of RB confirms that his is truly buried…actions speak louder and all that.
I left as quietly as I had arrived. This was my journey and past experience had shown me that any amount of rejection of his way, on my part, would be met with a sympathetic acknowledgement that I had simply lost my way…at least that’s how I have justified not expressing my doubt.
WhaleRider, I feel for you.
Another Name, thank you for your heartelt posts.
Just a reminder, from page 21:
“Burton will be appearing for a ‘teaching’ dinner on 3rd October, [by popular demand £!], at Bistro Aix, French Bistro. situated in Tottenham Lane in Crouch End.
If you can stomach his performance, you will probably find the Beef Stew sublime, the Guinea Fowl, just perfect, the Duck to die for and the deserts works of art in both appearance and taste. . . . . However I’m pretty sure that the entertainment will be more unbelievable than the cuisine!”
Is anyone going to check out this theatre production? Hope it’s a good gig. Or maybe someone has already changed the reservations? Speaking of good gigs, how about this little London band? (BTW, I did see them live and I think Paul Simonon is still one of the sexiest men alive – sorry, I needed to share that)
Moving uptown
But I know it’s the place I should be
The streets are all quiet
And no one saying nothing at all
Then the sun came out of he clouds
And charged up the satellites
We all got our energy back and started talking again
It’s the blessed routine
For The Good, The Bad And The Queen
Just moving out of dreams with no physical wounds at all
Don’t kick the crack heads of the green
They are a political party
And the kids are never going to be tired
Cos everything has ever so slightly come
Everything is so slightly come
Everything is so slightly come
Ooh
Ooh
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=4595983
Folks,
Try this on for size. If you don’t know Ron Sexsmith, you should.
Allan S
great to meet you here, I have been looking for you
Laura
is that really you? Didn’t recognise you from your posts. They have really made me laugh (well some) and now a smile as well. I remember once getting a very sweet letter from you that said you hoped we would meet sometime in the future this was always my hope also. Could never have imagined it would be here!
what a true kodak moment
laurao@fastwebnet.it
Write me and I’ll send you an invitation to the Greater Fellowship community where we can catch up.
Dear Old FOF:
Thank you for taking that risk in your post. You are wise and speak the truth; we may not have been married yet until we get through this interval, if we do. I am taking things as slowly as I can.
She has not been using the word love in our emails to each other the past week, nor returning my “I love you’s” with anything but silence. This morning on her way off to work, I looked her in the eyes and asked her, “Is there any love in there for me today?” She simply said, “No”. It felt like an ice pick to my heart. Luckily, the heart muscle is the toughest muscle in the body. I am amazed that mine is still beating after that.
Dear Alan S:
Welcome home. It’s good to have you here. There’s plenty of room here for everyone. Stay a while.
WhaleRider. How can anyone not sypmathise with your situation? You are not the first one to fall in love or have a partner fall out of love with you before you fall out of love with them. Welcome to planet earth. Life is still pretty brutal despite its pleasurable compensations.
What on earth did you expect? As with most heart rending disapointments it is the foolishness of naive expectation rather than any injustice that is the main cause of suffering.
Maybe bringing your expectations more in line with reality is the place to start.
Dear ‘I see’ said the blind man:
Thanks for your post and clarity of vision! There is a method to my madness. My expectation is that instead of protecting me from the truth, she would tell me the truth. She finally did today. That’s the reality I want to start from. Now I know not to expect something from nothing.
The pain I’m feeling today is like the day after a good workout. It’s not pleasant, but it makes me feel alive.
105 ‘ton
Re Therapy:
from doing this work, i realized the importance of reconnecting with my physical nature, i know i went through many years of being cut off from experiencing visceral feelings / emotions, living too much “in the head” as we tend to do in this culture (not to mention the trauma of the fof experience and the difficult transition back to “life”), this has an effect of alienation in relation to the body and “self”… and further effects in relating to others, society, environment etc.
—————————————————
I’ll confirm ‘ton’s suggestion to look into body-oriented therapies as well as talk therapy.
Experiences, feelings, memories, etc. are in the body as well as the mind. Sometimes talk therapy is enough but sometimes it takes a person just so far, and the rest can’t be gotten at by talking. The body must let go too. Some people do well with bodywork and no talk therapy.
I can recommend Rosen Method because I’ve been a practitioner for many years, but there are many good ones. ‘ton made some suggestions, and I’ve heard that Alexander Technique is good, although I have no personal experience with it. A nice side effect is that physical pain relief often happens as well. It’s a lot of work holding all that stuff in/down.
If you choose to go this route, be prepared to have intense feelings arise that may surprise you. It can be unsettling, but it’s worth it because once they are out in the light, they no longer have the same unconscious hold on your life.
ton
It’s interesting that one of may major arguments with RB revolved around your’s and M’s drama. M. told me and my wife (at the time) about RB’s request to terminate the pregnancy. I was profoundly struck by the effect it was having on M. I told her I thought it was lunacy to take this kind of advice.
Somehow L.T found out about MY advice to M. and approached my wife (L. knew better than to even approach me about anything, so she took the cowards way and tried to intimidate my wife into having me stay out of her business).
I went to RB and stated that L.T. was not to even approach my wife again or I would be gone the next day (of course at that time it carried some weight because I was involved deeply in RB’s whim and fad of the moment). Then we got around to discussing abortion advice (and his current pet project- advising women who got pregnant to have a hysterectomy so they wouldn’t have to worry about those unsightly and distracting pregnancies. I told him he simply couldn’t throw that kind of shit out there. Of course his pat retort was “when your level of being changes, you’ll see that I’m right”. What an asshole. All that, and convincing couples to give away children that they had “out of FOF”.
I can feel by blood pressure rising even now.
whalerider
If I had any practical advice it would be to not write anything off. Change is possible. We really do not know the future . We may not control many aspects of our lives but you are not unique in having emotional wounds. If your therapist is too detached and not really providing support find another one. If you have not done so and are able consider working with a LCSW or MFT as a couple.
Such an event as the breakup of a Marriage would definitely be classified as a “Crossroads” in ones life a time of transitions and new possibilities in System terms an “interval” and in terms of the Marriage as Si-DO. The end of something and the beginning of something new.
This itself provides one answer. This interval needs an outside shock.
There may not be specific groups for “victims of false conscious teachers” ( other than the BLOG and The Greater Fellowship) but there are many forms of 12 step programs ( in larger metropolitan areas) and other “support” groups like “sex and love addicts anonymous” (SLA) and “incest survivors anonymous” ( ISA) that are usually free. If you make minor adjustments to your “story” these can be a useful resource.
I offer these possibilities because For many sexual relations with Robert is more like incest , rape or prostitution then consensual sex. It is clearly a situation in which trust and openness are abused. It is not the homosexuality that is negative it is the warped emotions that corrupt the natural positive sex drive and leave the “victim” wounded, shamed , and damaged.
The attitude in the FOF of blaming the victims, refusing to see and accept the truth about the abusiveness, the sense of isolation and confusion created are all the same as what occurs around incest in a family system. After working with many individuals recovering from Alcohol and Drug use I have found a surprising large percentage come from families in which physical and emotional abusiveness, drug and alcohol use and incest are common. (dysfunctional family systems)
John Bradshaw has done much work around negative family dynamics and his book ” On the Family” offers much that is of value. It was used as a text in a course I took on family dynamics. I tend to think in terms of “the system” so to me what he describes is a process or octave of healing that involves using a “true personality” to “reparent oneself” and heal the “child within” (essence).
The FOF cultivated a sense of intellectual superiority to “life” which is entirely false. While FOF members stagnated in an enviorment that fostered intellectual and emotional shallowness “life” has produced much in the area of practical transformational psychology that is useful IE it works.
I have said that I still think in terms of the “System” one theory I have verified is that an interval such as you are describing is an opportunity for change. I believe An important factor in why and how 12 step groups work and are successful is because they intervene at a Si-Do interval. One in which the options are often, prison, institution’s or death. Individuals participate because they feel they have no other choice. This apparently creates a “right triad”.
The most important action you can take is to realize you need help and find a way to get it. The blog is one tool, therapy another, a support group yet another, there is no one answer.
I do the I-Ching at certain times. The idea is that it indicates right action in a specific situation. Sometimes right action seems to be “doing nothing” such as waiting for a bus, you wait. Another time you must run and catch it or even take a cab because you missed the Bus. Right action is very specific to a situation.
It may seem contradictory but from one perspective it is all on you as far as seeking, finding and using what help is available. From another you can do nothing but try and be present .
Sometimes situations seem difficult because we put a lot together and it seems like one big black cloud. It can be very valuable to take an inventory. I say this in the same sense that a store counts it stock and separates items into different categories. One idea is that There are only 7 problems. Health, transportation, housing, Family, sex and relationships, job, and finances. It can be useful to separate them and try and deal with them individually. Some we can address simply like “go to the dentist”, others may need to be put off. The point is to not mix everything together so it becomes unmanageable.
Leaving a cult like the Fellowship and trying to return to “normal” is a process. Like other forms of recovery one of the “gifts of recovery” is that you have issues. Whoever you were, whatever problems you did not deal with before being in the FOF, no matter how effectively you may have thought you avoided these “issues” you have to deal with them.
No matter what the future brings you bring your past with you. I still try and practice self remembering. I have found that for me dealing with the past is part of this process. It is not possible to “remember oneself” and deny any part of who one is or any part of what one experienced. It requires “seeing” and accepting the positive and negatives aspects of everything we can bring to it. Future growth depends on healing and that depends on becoming more “whole”.
Sorry if this sounds like just general platitudes. Sometimes the truth is that way something simple we already know that is just difficult to live through and do.
Whalerider: Back off! Do not use the word “love” in your wife’s vicinity. It is a handgrenade.
O my God Bruce….
This Robert advice about abortions and hysterectomies was/ is on the level of Hitler Gemany….. O my God….
I feel for you and your blood pressure
I feel, this needs to end….O my God.
The world needs to know that Robert Burton and maybe others have lunatic ideas and might carry it out…
O my God. Bruce, I think of you and know that your heart is soooo strong.
My heart goes out to you…..and all the others.
Why don’t we not move Robert to the Ming house with a few who like to satisfy him…some bisexuals who do seem to enjoy it….
Make the property into a spiritual retreat a healing place, a non profit organization and use all what we are doing to make this world a better place….
Where children can flourish and be what they are… With good health care , part time jobs and joy, joy, joy…..
Am I too naive or is this because my eyes are full of tears and this was what I wanted….many years ago, a loving community where we would bring out the best in each other?
Thanks Bruce….Thanks….
Former student says:
I offer these possibilities because For many sexual relations with Robert is more like incest , rape or prostitution then consensual sex. It is clearly a situation in which trust and openness are abused. It is not the homosexuality that is negative it is the warped emotions that corrupt the natural positive sex drive and leave the “victim” wounded, shamed , and damaged.
The attitude in the FOF of blaming the victims, refusing to see and accept the truth about the abusiveness, the sense of isolation and confusion created are all the same as what occurs around incest in a family system. After working with many individuals recovering from Alcohol and Drug use I have found a surprising large percentage come from families in which physical and emotional abusiveness, drug and alcohol use and incest are common. (dysfunctional family systems)
————————————————————————–
woooh, right on and I verified the dynamic in family relaltions and the continuation in the next generations….
How can we stop this chain of abuse? How can we support AND HELP THE NEXT GENERATIONS….
Linda T. Says:
March 5th, 2007 at 8:15 am
http://www.geocities.com/stella_wirk/kaplan.gif
‘only following orders,’ followed by,
‘be,hold,read,back,read,BE!’
What is our responsibility to act re: fof?
At what point does knowledge become responsibility?
We have either personally experienced, or knowledge of what the fof hides and supports.
At what point does knowledge and responsibility become a requirement for action?
In post part 2(1) I listed a blueprint for action that included proactive
What is our responsibility to act re: fof?
Good question.
1. Distribute information…to others….they might not want to hear now…time is a factor.
2. I went back to 2 – 1 but coul dnot find what you are pointing too.
Can you be more clear what we individually could do?
3. Or as a group?
Of course this blog is read by L-nd- and others…
hello you L-nd- and others, enjoy the stuff here and BTW let us know if the info published her is not true!
Love to all.
Dear Another Name (#126),
The post in question from Way.of.the.Slow.Man is reposted below.
For what it’s worth I believe these ideas have merit as a way of using PR to pressure local law enforcement and government agencies. That said, I also think it is naive to assume actions like these will substantially influence current members beyond the effect the blog already has. These tactics could in fact serve to harden the resolve of some hardline current members. However, IMO if the FOF loses its legal status as a church all other sensitivities become moot, and hardline current members can go to hell (or stay there) as long as their cult (hi Vinnie) becomes legally recognized as a cult.
on 29 Sep 2007 at 7:05 pm687 Way.of.the.Slow.Man
…pulling down the walls… (Observer 573)
The lifeblood of the current fof are the “teaching” payments by current students. Stop the money and you bankrupt just-plain-bob’s freeloading rapacious existence.
While this blog is an extraordinary community: revealing, healing and heart ripping in its intensity, it is a soft direct action for shining truth to current members who are interested in looking.
But looking is not always seeing.
It appears easy for existing members to continue to avert their eyes, or like self-indulgent Vinnie, justify continued membership and support of just-plain-bob and his enablers.
So maybe its time to swing the bright spotlight around a bit to the parts of the fof that try to keep and attract paying ’students’ to finance j-p-b’s lifestyle.
It requires being seen and named in the public spotlight, but here’s a blueprint for direct action with some suggestions from previous posts:
Picket the FOF property – preferably when there is an event bringing fof-members from outside the local area.
Picket “teaching houses” in large cities. Let the neighbors know that a nest of fof-ers is supporting a cock-sucking monster.
Bring the press into it. Notify newspapers and TV about the blog. See if the SacBee, SF Chronicle and others that have done previous fof articles are interested in an update. A bleeding, dying cult could be a good Sunday read.
Organize press coverage for picketing and assemblies.
Do the same at foreign centers and ‘teaching’ houses.
Actions should be done with legal advice and in conjunction with local law-enforcement. There’s been enough personal misery with getting jailed or beset by the fof legal junkyard-dogs.
If just the blog has cut deeply into fof membership, dream of what public information and outing of fof members would do to chop j-p-b’s rapacious career. I would neither have joined nor stayed as long as I did with the information available now.
122 Another Name
‘Why don’t we not move Robert to the Ming house with a few who like to satisfy him…some bisexuals who do seem to enjoy it….’
A better suggestion might be to put him in prison where he belongs-of course,attended to by his ‘boys’.
For me,one thing that is truly hard to swallow is RB’s complete and utter disregard for the pain his actions inflicted on innocent students.The argrument that this was necessary ‘friction’ for awakening, or that this was the ‘play’ for these individuals, is an example of how low a man can sink to justify abusive behaviour.
So now, many of us are still picking up the pieces of our lives left in the wake of our ‘evolutionary’ experience alla fof, and what we thought was a ‘paradise’ turns out to be ‘hell’.
It seems hard to understand how the fof got so screwed up!
In the first few years I was in the ’school’ I can remember very happy, joyful times, when I actually felt I was making the right efforts to experience my essence, and the essences of those around me, and yet at these same times lurking in the background was the thought of RB, and how ‘everything’ would be much better if I didn’t have to deal with this madman!!
Thanks all for listening, and posting, and for taking a stand.
Dear a former student:
Thank you for your post. From what I have read of your life on this blog, I know you have been though hell and back twice, and I value your voice. I agree about the genesis of many mental problems begin with childhood abuse, neglect, and incest, etc. having worked in the same areas of the mental health system as you. Children of divorced parents have double the chances of serious social and emotional problems 20 years later. This the cluster fuck of emotions I am dealing with, the future of my kids hanging in the balance raise the stakes by 10 fold for me.
You know, it doesn’t matter what you say to me in your post, platitudinous or not, just the time I spend reading your post and the fact that you would take the time to write me makes me feel more connected and less isolated, even though we have never met. You and I know, carrying around shame keeps us cut off from others, and I have had a difficult time bonding with people because of our shared past. It really helps when you are among others who understand first hand what you went through.
As you can tell, I am still paying for the fucking elitism that runs so deep in the Fellowship of Friends. I feel like it was grafted to my being in the high intensity atmosphere of the fof and no matter how hard I work on humbling myself, it seeps out, and others, like my wife, are repelled by it.
I am also experiencing a shift the idea of being present, but not remember myself: just being, looking, listening, feeling, and not thinking…it’s too painful right now to think about the past or future, although I know I will have to come to terms with both to be a whole person again…right now I am just experiencing the hole in my relationship with my wife and it hurts. No matter how much energy I invest in keeping it going, there’s a leak. I am learning to practice the Tao art of not doing, just letting it be.
So thanks for reading my platitudes, dude. We are even. I am just glad you’re out there.
Dear Abigail:
Thank you for reminding me that love is just a four letter word. I will heed your advice and back off from using it with her. I’ve also had be my own words and heed the advice I gave you not too long ago and practice forgiving myself now several times a day. The pace of the blog must be quickening!
Dear Tiger:
I’m visualizing RB in a windowless prison cell with nothing to look at but this blog scrolling down a wall 24/7. Keep posting!
Way.of.the.Slow.Man 125 said:
What is our responsibility to act re: fof?
At what point does knowledge become responsibility?
————————————————————————
I hate to throw cold water on your enthusiasm, and I am not taking the opposite side, but there is no such thing as “our” responsibility, just like there is no such thing as “our”
country, “our” freedom, or even “our” school, if there ever was one.
The only responsibility that exists is for each individual to decide, if, when and to whatever extent they wish to assume it, based on a previous and sincere dialog with their conscience.
All the rest is dominance, no matter how nobly expressed and convincingly put forward. Remember, “our” country, “our” freedom and “our” religion has gotten humanity into more trouble than history has pages to recount.
But for those who CHOOSE to take responsibility, Way.of.the.Slow.Man’s suggestions appear in 21/687 and have just been repeated above.
I merely wished to point out that taking responsibility may be the ultimate act of free will. No one can create responsibility for another, just like no one can evolve for another, though many try to convince us otherwise.
Wow, the finger is faster than the mind. I “back” buttoned and apparently the browser ’sent my partial post.
130 Truth is Where You Find It
pinpoints the “I” of my post with ‘we’ and ‘our’
Follows is what I had been composing before technology pre-emptively sent for me…
—–
What, if any, is our responsibility to act re: fof?
At what point does knowledge become responsibility?
We have either personally experienced, or knowledge of what the fof hides and supports.
At what point does knowledge and responsibility become a requirement for action?
Do we have any responsibility to act to try to bring down just-plain-bobs’s supporting organization?
In post part 2(1) 687, I listed a blueprint for action that included proactive contacting the press in conjunction with picketing the fof home nest–isis, center teaching houses and possibly even student houses. Most actions required a public face presence by name and photo visibility. A few comments were received.
It is also possible to anonymously inform neighbors of a fof nest by flyers mailed to a neighborhood where a fof main house or a “student” teaching house is rented — just send flyers with blog and Rick Ross URLs listing a bit of j-p-b’s exploits and lawsuits. Normal neighbors inform landlords of bizarre tenants which would put an end to further leasing.
But what is right action?
Can we stuff awareness into current members?
Should we?
Is feeding the blog sufficient to:
- internally heal blog ‘members’ and give a voice to emotions too long held inside
- externally feed information for fof ’students who are interested in seeing?
Should we be more proactive to shut down the fof?
- “out” fof center houses?
- “out” fof teaching houses?
- picket isis or center ‘teaching’ houses
I have been a fof graduate for over 20 years so am pretty far away in time from the current fof. And I am physically far from fof centers or students. But I am willing to help finance legal action or enquiries to help pull down the current fof.
I helped build the underpinnings of the current fof.
I am willing to help pull it down.
…apparently the browser ’sent my partial post.
must have been “C” (computer) influence
Yesterday I was in one of my city’s major bookstores. As I was waiting for some books I had requested, I wandered through the esoteric book section. The shelves held one or two copies of Gurdjieff and Ouspenski’s main titles and, surprisingly for me, three copies of obscure teacher Robert Burton’s “Self remembering”. Italy is one of the countries (maybe the only one?) where Robert’s book was translated and published by a local editor.
All the fourth way books had been bookmarked. There were two kinds: the “before makeover” G-O-style ones and the “new look” divine presence ones (“reaching wordless divine presence is the greatest miracle of the universe” !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).
Anyway, before I even thought about it, I found myself pulling all the Fellowship bookmarks out of the books. My understanding is that the Gurdjieff foundation is not happy about them bookmarks either. So it occurred to me that this is a quite easy way to boicott the Fellowship of Friends: take those bookmarks out, again and again, till they get tired or find a better advertising tool. It’s a little considerate gesture that any of us located in a city where there’s a centre can do!
A little addition: as I was researching info for this post, I ran into an Amazon review of a book called “Taking With the Left Hand: Enneagram Craze, People of the Bookmark, & The Mouravieff “Phenomenon”, was this mentioned already on the blog? It looks like an interesting read. The “People of the Bookmark” are us, just in case that was not clear.
Laura,
Taking with the Left Hand is by William Patrick Patterson, who was a student of John Pentland’s and supposedly was annointed to lead the Gurdjieff Foundation when Pentland died. The observations he makes about the fof in his book are mild compared to the real deal. His point of view is coming from the “Burton has no legitimate connection to this work and is misleading his students” angle.
Here’s a story:
A couple of years ago, I was in a local book store and saw a poster for one of Patterson’s talks near my home. Just out of curiousity, I went. He talked the fouth way mumbo-jumbo for awhile, had us do some “sensing” exercises, and opened the floor for questions. For fun, I asked a question about self remembering and creating memory. He asked me about my understanding of self remembering and in my answer I used the phrase divided attention. He told me this was a wrong understanding of the idea and then, seemingly out of nowhere, launched into a diatribe about false teachings and corruption of the ideas. On and on it went. At the end, he turns his best Gurdjy steely gaze on me and says, “And this is the story of Robert Burton and the Fellowship of Friends, is it not,” in an incredibly self-satisfied tone. I almost laughed out loud. Judging from his manner, I believe that he thought that I thought, “Wow, how did this guy read my mind?” I came away from the experience thinking, “Same s#@t, different bag.”
Oh, and his students were a hoot, too. They seemed about as uptight as any group of folks I’ve run into. The women who introduced him (one of the inner circle, probably), spoke of him as if he were the second coming. After the event. I asked the two people manning the concession stand how many times a week the group met and how many students were in the local area. They stopped, stared at the ground for a moment, looked at each other with a look I’m sure we are all familiar with, and told me they couldn’t answer my question. So it goes.
#115 WhaleRider
WR, your post struck me deeply: it revealed a common experience of “love” which, when push comes to shove, turns out to be a big mess of “needs”. My advice, if it is at all welcome to you, is to try to remove yourself from the fly-paper part, the sticky part, the identification part that wants to know if there is “any love in there for you”. She said “No”. I bet she did.
If I can put myself in her shoes a bit, I can only imagine that she is pretty confused and hurting. Most likely she signed up for some mutual back patting, not for unconditional love. The past few months have been pretty lonely for her. You took off on a roller coaster ride, breaking out skeletons she does not wish to see and have no meaning for her.
So, if you can find it, try to find the place inside you that is love, but not personal. If you can’t find it, just act like you found it anyway. Bring her flowers with no strings attached. Really and truly, no strings.
To me, this is the essence of 12 step, from an Al-Anon perspective, withdraw your identification from the mutual disease, with no expectations that your partner will respond. They might, but they might not. In any case, the triad will change. When that changes, everything changes. The future is wide open because the present is wide open.
Good luck to you, you who have give me so much.
Love,
Bass
Kid Shelleen, sorry for being a pedant and all but I believe it was William Welch that succeeded John Pentland. With regard to the story and remarks about self-remembering, divided attention and creating memory could it be that RB may have got it wrong. It seems to be an example of the head doing its usual thing and trying to make sense of information that seems to require more. The result is the presentation of 4th way ideas that are somewhat removed from their real and original intention. Perhaps it originates in a wrong understanding of attention, where we are and how to get to where we need to be. But I should not be so harsh, after all what do I know?
In the original books we get very little on real practical application of 4th way methods, with perhaps a hint in Views, Life is real and in an encrypted form in Beelzebub. And this is because method has to be passed on such that it is faithful to its original form, not in a book.
Anyway, just my thoughts.
Allan S wrote:
“Kid Shelleen, sorry for being a pedant and all but I believe it was William Welch that succeeded John Pentland. With regard to the story and remarks about self-remembering, divided attention and creating memory could it be that RB may have got it wrong.”
Allan,
If my memory serves me, I believe I got the info re: Patterson succeding Pentland from the woman who introduced him at the talk.
Also, if you’ve read any of my previous post on the blog, you know that I have great distain for the fouth way. There are certainly elements of some sort of truth within it, but the same can be said of Scientology. It no longer matters to me whether Bob or the fof taught me the right way to remember myself or not. The system is flawed and leads nowhere. I think Ouspensky realized this at the end of his life.
You also wrote:
” The result is the presentation of 4th way ideas that are somewhat removed from their real and original intention.”
From another point of view, it may be that they are used exactly as originally intended: To separate a fool and his money.
Sheik, please don’t post my last reply that is in moderation. I accidently pasted a letter into it by mistake.
Kid Shelleen
You’re right I haven’t read much in the way of your previous posts, so thanks for that, perhaps I’ll have a look.
If we apply wrong method however, then how can we make the generalisation that the system is flawed?
And finally, yes this could also be so…it would certainly give an alternative interpretation of the “toast to the idiots”.
Anyway…I’ll go read some of you’re previous.
Allan.
Kid,
thanks for clarifying. I do like his nickname for Fellowship students and I am planning to copy it, it sounds silly enough for my taste.
“People of the Bookmark”: a group of people just as dogmatic and religious as the “People of the Book”, but with a lot less original material to study (the Corpus Burtonian being pretty skimpy), and a bad tendency to steal and corrupt other teachers’ ideas in order to justify and promulgate their own fallacious understanding. :.)
Dear Bass Ackwards:
Thanks for your post. Of course I welcome your advice! My therapist is signaling the same direction for me as you mentioned. She calls the love that is not personal compassion, which works for me. We are not sleeping all that well, and with two young kids, she is exhausted most of the time. That’s where I can display some compassion toward her and relieve some of the work load.
The other night I watched the movie, “Finding Forrester” and in it Forrester revealed his secret for winning a woman’s heart: give her an unexpected gift at an unexpected moment. I am going to work on that, and timing is crucial. My wife is so sensitized to my insecurities and fear right now, that any gesture, be it a hug, a compliment about her looks, or an offer to do something for her is suspect and causes her to shut down more. So I am learning to exist in ambivalence land for the time being and wait for the ‘right’ moment. Actually, I was planning to send her flowers at work in a week or two, so we are on the same wave length.
I really appreciate your input, and need to hear the same message over and over again from differing sources several times a day to get it through my thick head. Being close to RB in and intense way with my essence so exposed, set me up for attaching conditions to my intimacy: you do this for me, and you get to go to Europe or get a new watch. As you can tell, I am still working that shit out of my being.
******
Laura, you go girl! You’ve inspired me. I am going to check out my local bookstore for signs of the bookmark people and do my share.
Actions speak louder than words.
Laura and Whalerider and etc., etc.,
_____________________________
We can also replace the Fellowship of Friends bookmarks with Blog Bookmarks and perhaps a little ‘blog-blurb’, a quote, like ~
” Robert, do you really want these cuff links?” – “Yes, yes! I told you. I want them! Hurry up, get the car, let’s go. Now. Quickly. Call him, now, make sure he is still open…”
Then the web address for this blog-site.
Maybe a portrait of Fred Flintstone on one side of the bookmark and Barney Ruble on the other.
:.)
143 uno
great idea –now we just need someone to design them and someone who knows how to put them on a webpage so anyone can print them out from their computers. Maybe a few people who can translate them into the different languages.
141 WhaleRider
I have been reading and feeling for you, and as is the case for so many others, greatly appreciate what you have added to the conversation here.
I have a suggestion about the flowers (and wow, does this ever feel like butting in in too public a forum, but there you have it.) Instead of sending her flowers at work, which would seem unavoidably direct, how about getting a nice small arrangement and just putting it somewhere appropriate in the house, maybe the kitchen table, maybe in an entry way – just as a small offering, and with minimal comment unless she responds. And make it Daisies or Iris, or another delightful but neutral flower to avoid the expectations that roses might carry.
145 I vote for dahlias and zinnias, this is fall after all.
Good point Xena – a sure indication that I have not been getting flowers for my sweetie often enough!
145–I agree that this needs to be very discreet. I remember once when a student broke up with her boyfriend, Robert told him to send her flowers at work everyday. He did and I think it really teed her off.
Flowers,… all well and good, just don’t expect them to make a significant, long term difference. It’s also possible that she has made her decisions and nothing “surface” is going to change it.
Maybe work on reclaiming the “just you” aspect of yourself. Without that, any “love” is going to be temporal, and an effort to fill a hole only you can fill for yourself.
maybe you just need a spinal tap
Dear friends,
I love the flower conversation and…do not take advise from Robert as been mentioned….
He is not good as a marriage counselor…
Good laugh again…..
I vote for a new simple bookmark….
with the addres of the blog……..
Yippie….
Soft action,
like water trickeling…..
Another idea: send some of the blog emails to friends who are pondering????
Each month one or two with the address of the blog…!?
Give me some favorite slogans or quotes and I’ll design them.
150 Laura
“Divine presents”….donate now, donate often.
FOF…the”Way of the mincing Queen”
RB…I contain multitudes
Drop your illusions, then drop the soap.
FOF…We are all equally sheep.
addenda:
I am large, I contain multitudes
On the bookmarks, I would direct seekers to the first pages of the old Sheik’s blog – they can get to this chattier portion if they pursue it, but I think the real meat is in the beginning. Or perhaps someone will still make a “Best of The Blog” website.
The bookmark quotes shouldn’t be too sarcastic either, or they will have an opposite effect. We would want to look like knowlegeable, wiser former FoFers, not negative, bitter former FoFers.
tim 97
thanks for your supportive words, it’s good to hear from you again.
bruce 119
when m & i lived at kevin kelly’s house we were your “next-door” neighbors. i know that m developed a friendship with you and your wife during that phase but didn’t know that she had confided in you about the terror of her situation… it makes sense that she would turn to you and “your m” with the problem she faced.
“my m” fought valiantly against the power that was forcing her to act against her will. she fought it the only way she could, mostly with tears and verbal protestations. but there was little sympathy for her plight since it was the will of “the teacher” that she abort the pregnancy. Sharon s, linda, and other rb puppets were brought in to arrange the operation in L.A. and to try to convince m that the abortion was the right thing to do…
the explanation from the horse’s ass had something to do with the timing of the pregnancy, that the child would not be born on “the ark.” what outrageous bullshit!!! “the teacher” rationalized the whole thing based on the dire “prophecies” which at the time i believed… now i see that the predictions were nothing more than fear-mongering and another means of mind-control.
i’m not a “right-to-lifer” by any means, i believe it’s a woman’s right to choose what to do in the case of pregnancy. but given the situation and circumstances, m had no choice! she was coerced from the beginning, and i blame myself for this…. we should have just fled the scene then and there, but i was deeply brain-washed.
I’ve written previously that my “suspicion” at the time concerning the motivation behind the whole thing was jealous revenge… i left the academy and married m (you took the pictures of our wedding there at renaissance). i mentioned in a previous post that i went to miles with my concerns and suspicions — the next “conscious being” and already almost man # 5… what absolute rubbish!! i found no support from him, he backed “the teacher.” as a “task” from the teacher, i thought it was essential to convince m that it was the right thing to do…. i was just another “little eichman.”
this is stuff that’s been buried for a long time and it’s heart-rending to re-live… it makes me feel physically ill.
I was there at the hospital holding her hand after the abortion, trying to console her… (what a colossal fool i am), she could not be consoled, any words i might have uttered went unheard. the intent of the abortion worked as planned — by siding with “the teacher” i destroyed my wife’s trust in me and too, the marriage. I’ve written before, that my complicity in this criminal act is personally THE most damning event of my fof experience. it’s a sin i’ve lived with for many years and i’ll go to my grave with it… there’s hell to pay. i loathe myself for my part in it and i have to wonder how a human being responsible for this situation many times over can possibly live with “itself” ?!? it’s completely monstrous!
in other posts, i’ve briefly sketched my difficulties when i left the fof… i lived a dissolute and self-destructive life, i slept on the pavement at night and aimlessly wandered the streets by day, like “wind along the waste.” later i realized that this was the manifestation of a strong death-wish, the humiliation of that kick-in-the balls courtesy of “the teacher” completely destroyed my will to live and i can say now, “but for the grace of god” and the loving support of a few earth-angels, i should be already, a long time in the grave.
thank you for listening to my story
Whalerider:
I think you are trying too hard with your wife and your neediness is just becoming irritating. It can begin to seem like a whinning child. Leave her alone for awhile and try to be strong for yourself. Stop focusing so much on YOUR needs, YOUR hurt and YOUR disappointments. Get a grip on. Your wife’s love may turn to contempt otherwise.
Sorry to be so harsh but there may be some truth for you in these words.
I think the bookmark idea is excellent. And I agree that it should not be nasty, sarcastic or spiteful. Some simple true statements of fact and the blog address for starters.
154 ‘ton
Part of RB’s crusade to end pregnancies was due to a child being a hindrance to RB’s hitting on married men.
#22/154 `ton
You heart-wrenching story leaves me at a loss for words.
As RB liked to quote: “Lord, what fools these mortals be…” One problem has been that he does not seem to put himself in either of those categories, mortal or fool.
thanks to you opus for reading my story.
bruce, thanks for being here,
you are a TRUE friend.
vena 155
i would agree with your sentiment. my feeling is that this forum is a good place to process some “personal shit” amongst sympaticos but it shouldn’t become a “pity-party.”
i have nothing but gratitude for all that i encounter in this mysterious “air-breathing existence. the blog can help those in need of emotional support but it’s important not to feed into weakness, i “salute” you for pointing this out. the blog can be a means of transforming personal suffering, but the larger issue here (i feel) is transforming the negative situation that is the “lesser-fellowship as helmed by that “creature” called “the teacher.”
apologies for more dated cultural material…
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=8DjDqblPUgM
Well the dawn was coming,
heard him ringing on my bell.
He said, “My name’s the teacher,
that is what I call myself.
And I have a lesson
that I must impart to you.
It’s an old expression
but I must insist it’s true.
Jump up, look around,
find yourself some fun,
no sense in sitting there hating everyone.
No man’s an island and his castle isn’t home,
the nest is for nothing when the bird has flown.”
So I took a journey,
threw my world into the sea.
With me went the teacher
who found fun instead of me.
Hey man, what’s the plan, what was that you said?
Sun-tanned, drink in hand, lying there in bed.
I try to socialize but I can’t seem to find
what I was looking for, got something on my mind.
Then the teacher told me
it had been a lot of fun.
Thanked me for his ticket
and all that I had done.
Hey man, what’s the plan, what was that you said?
Sun-tanned, drink in hand, lying there in bed.
I try to socialize but I can’t seem to find
what I was looking for, got something on my mind.
Not only should we remove every FOF bookmark from any book we find, I would go even further and suggest that we ‘intentionally misplace’ any of RB’s books we happen to see in any bookstore.
The energy of autumn seems to be coloring posts lately. Rich, reflective, and a touch of melancholy.
A few nights ago, I was unable to sleep, my mind churning with memories and images evoked by this blog.
I recalled a large Bay Area meeting Robert led at “Hiller Highlands” (or perhaps it was Skyline). The topic of relationships was brought up, and Robert’s “angles” produced a stir. We went to break.
Returning, Robert said (paraphrasing a bit) “what positive can be said about something that keeps one asleep?”
His disdain for relationships, and his insecurity should have been apparent at the time, but for me it was not.
I recall, the lines at the Lincoln Lodge, waiting to have a moment to ask Robert our burning questions. (For me, it often seemed connected to relationships.)
He was typically indifferent on the topic. “Let my love for you exist,” he would say.
Many of us actively sought his direction in our personal lives, willing puppets of his make-believe play.
Though I was around Robert often during my eight years at Renaissance, and occasionally chauffered him, I had absolutely no awareness of his personal sexual appetites. After all, he was celibate!
“Good students” of course, would go to great lengths to avoid gossip. And those who knew better, knew it was a waste of energy to speak to “good students” of the brutal realities. Only many years after leaving did I learn about the sinister world that had surrounded me.
It began to explain the apparition-like facial expressions of certain “sensitive” students, like Thomas E., Brian S., Thomas P. and so many others who, before my very eyes, were silently enduring their personal hells.
***
Some have suggested contacting newspapers to investigate the Fellowship. With drastic reductions of editorial staffs at most major newspapers, that may be a difficult task.
What about cutting edge magazines such as “Mother Jones”, or New Age/Spirituality journals? Anyone have a sense if this might be an appropriate special interest story for them? Does anyone have any inside connections with such a publication?
If one picked up the story, others may follow.
Laura: great suggestion about bookmarks. (All the hours I spent riding my motorcycle around L.A. placing those damn things!)
162
“What about cutting edge magazines such as “Mother Jones”, or New Age/Spirituality journals? Anyone have a sense if this might be an appropriate special interest story for them? Does anyone have any inside connections with such a publication?”
I would think that the significant number of posters here, and significant number of similar horror stories, in one place, might be an ample “hook” for a publication such as the above to pursue a story.
A couple people complaining is one thing. A blog that gets 1000 or more hits a day, substantially from the FOF membership, with it’s evident substantiation is a much stronger argument for exposure by the media. Maybe something even bigger than Mother Jones.
With poster’s permission, the blog is a fact rich source for a reporter, ready made for further expansion and elaboration. The media’s lawyers can quickly see what’s useful and what needs to be avoided.
Whalerider,
have you considered turning off your computer for a whole week and try investing the so well spared time into rekindling your once very precious relationship and into enjoying your precious fast growing children ?
If you are not using the deeper understanding of life that you are getting out of your “blogging” to improve the quality of your everyday life, you are just living a parallel to reality that soon or later will leave you face to face with the painful consequences of your poor choices.
It’s happening right under your nose.
Are you getting any younger?…didn’t think so.
Time to grow up, and that’s my advice.
Have a wonderful day.
.M.
Dear RobertC:
Thanks for your input. I just need to back off for a while and respect my wife’s process. You are right though. It was the accumulation of little things that caused her to want out, and it will be the accumulation of little things that will cause her to want back in.
Hey Vena:
I hear ya. Thanks for that. I do have a kid in me, thank goodness, who whines sometimes, and until recently I didn’t disclose on this blog. I don’t pretend to be a man number 11, just a guy. I never had the shoulder of a big sister to cry on or look up to for advice either…so by unloading here, I can spare my wife of the drama, hopefully save my marriage, and spare my kids unnecessary suffering in their future. It takes a village to raise a family. I talk about myself and my needs because I know myself best. You are right, the more I grip her, the more she slips away, and the more I lose myself.
If you think about it, there are many reading this blog who are faced with having to make painful choices in the direction of their lives also, to leave or to stay…I have benefited greatly from sharing my story and then listening to as many expereinced voices as I can in addition to my own before I make my choice. My heartfelt thanks to you all.
as for publicizing the contents of the blog in the “print media,”
the lurid details of the destrucitve aspects a a homosexual “love” cult as revealed here, might be more fitting for “american supermarket tabloids” such as the National Inquirer and others of that ilk.
I am all for removing bookmarks and “misplacing” any publication from the “lesser fof.” it’s a kind of act of “civil disobedience” and a service to the larger community. Like i said here earlier, after reading “THE FOURTH WAY” i thought i was onto something real… then i found the bookmark.
Dear Medusa:
“…you are just living a parallel to reality that soon or later will leave you face to face with the painful consequences of your poor choices.”
My sentiments exactly to anyone still stuck in the Fellowship!
That’s my point. There are many parallels here, if you care to apply our individual, personal stories to the larger picture.
I am not afraid of appearing immature to you or anyone else here. I am who I am, and I accept that. If we all just cower, inner consider, and suppress our pain, the criminal acts of Robert Burton continue and more people will suffer.
Hey, I brought you out of the woodwork though, didn’t I?…and a human, caring side to the blog. But enough about me. I can take a hint. You have turned me into stone for one week. I have some reading to do anyway.
So what’s your story?
Thanks Medusa. This one’s for you:
whalerider…
thank you for a “beautiful day.”
The heart is a bloom
Shoots up through the stony ground
There’s no room
No space to rent in this town
You’re out of luck
And the reason that you had to care
The traffic is stuck
And you’re not moving anywhere
You thought you’d found a friend
To take you out of this place
Someone you could lend a hand
In return for grace
It’s a beautiful day
Sky falls, you feel like
It’s a beautiful day
Don’t let it get away
You’re on the road
But you’ve got no destination
You’re in the mud
In the maze of her imagination
You love this town
Even if that doesn’t ring true
You’ve been all over
And it’s been all over you
It’s a beautiful day
Don’t let it get away
It’s a beautiful day
Touch me
Take me to that other place
Teach me
I know I’m not a hopeless case
See the world in green and blue
See China right in front of you
See the canyons broken by cloud
See the tuna fleets clearing the sea out
See the Bedouin fires at night
See the oil fields at first light
And see the bird with a leaf in her mouth
After the flood all the colors came out
It was a beautiful day
Don’t let it get away
Beautiful day
Touch me
Take me to that other place
Reach me
I know I’m not a hopeless case
What you don’t have you don’t need it now
What you don’t know you can feel it somehow
What you don’t have you don’t need it now
Don’t need it now
Was a beautiful day
Dear all,
The suggestion of putting ‘anti–bookmarks’ (Laura #22-133 or thereabouts) where the FoF puts bookmarks seems an idea whose time has come, and certainly protected as free speech. Is it necessary to have a special design? I would think that a few choice words from any computer printer would do, the message would be clear enough. I’ve already done mine:
For those who are really busy, I’ve put these words in a slightly fancier setting (warning triangles and such), in color, six bookmarks to a page. You can find it at:
http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/1600/fellowshipoffriendsantirc7.jpg
Thanks, Laura!
Hi WhaleRider,
The good advise from RobertC (144) points toward reducing the expectations contained within the flower gesture, but I’m sure as long as you continue “waiting for the right moment”, it continues to be laced with expectations.
When I revisited the book I recommended to you earlier, I found some passages regarding freedom and ego-driven action (Me, Inc) in relation to false freedom. “We expect others to free us by complying with our expectations. We equate freedom with being in a position of power over others. So, freedom seems to mean being above the law or having the power to impose it on others.” The writer then continues by story and example to demonstrate the completely different nature of experience when one is obedient to the fundamental order and intelligence of being. . . . that ‘seeing’ is the issue in life and that seeing is freeing.
Me, Inc is an insidious companion to all of us. We can help each other by bringing it to light. I think you should leave your wife alone. If you are moved by your own wish to bring a vase of beautiful, healing flowers into your home for all to enjoy, then do it without alterior motives.
More than ever I re-recommend Whole Child/Whole Parent to you. It is a fast-forward to relevancy now.
129 WhaleRider
It might seem reasonable to assume that as a result of my many humiliating and humbling experiences I would at least have gotten some decent humility out of it. Unfortunately what I have is more of a realization of what an arrogant asshole I can be.
This certainly would not have been at the top of my list of things I wanted to receive many years ago when I undertook to follow Socrates advice to “know thyself”.
It is unfortunate that the FOF experiences based as it is/was on false expectations and imagination about a school and conscious being makes it hard to trust others and seek help. Most Fellowship of Friends members have a less realistic understanding of psychology than loyal followers of DR. Phil. At least Dr. Phil’s fans do not imagine they are the highest, uniquely gifted chosen of the Gods on the planet.
If I had one 100% verified piece of advice it would be get help. If you could do it yourself you would not have been in a cult to start with. I don’t endorse another “great esoteric teacher” but more like thinking of coaches for specific areas.
There are support groups, therapists, workshops.
John Bradshaw is a good example of current possibilities in modern psychology. Also those he trained like the Therapists at the “Center for Creative Growth” who work with shame intensively with workshops and intensive group work.
A popular Bradshaw book.
Healing the Shame
That Binds You
Learn how to recognize the many
faces of shame and how to heal
toxic shame and regain full
possession of your life.
I lead a simple life. One aim I have is that my experiences be something that I can use to help others. Probably not by writing any bestsellers or leading workshops but even one person a little bit is fine. It makes me think that my Karma is in better shape than Robert Burton and his “inner circle” of spiritual criminals.
137 Kid Shelleen,
‘From another point of view, it may be that they are used exactly as originally intended: To separate a fool and his money.’
Doesn’t this just piss you off!!!’What fools these Motals be’!!!
Many of us spent years paying for what we later discovered to be a complete sham,or mostly so. If it hadn’t been for some of the great once in a lifetime people I encountered, and shared experiences, the tally of my time in the fof would be much worse.
So is this the price required to seek truth? Sometimes I don’t know what pisses me off more-the money, being made a fool,all of the above. I think tonight I’ll take all of the above!
I’d like to believe that my time in the fof wasn’t just to be fodder for a sociopathic con-man.
At times, I catch myself wishing, hoping for some ‘Universal Law of Justice’ despensed by somekind of ‘Overlord’ upon the head of RB.
Deleted on request of the author. — ES
From the Italian blog, October 4th Daily Card:
When the lower self ends up on the moon,
it demonstrates how worthless he was.
Care to comment on this pearl of wisdom, anyone?
I wouldn’t know where to start. :.{
Thursday, October 4, 2007
When the Robot self
ends up in the slammer,
it demonstrates how
worthless he was.
Love, Rolex
I saw it written and I saw it say
Pink moon is on its way
And none of you stand so tall
Pink moon gonna get you all
Its a pink moon
Its a pink, pink, pink, pink, pink moon.
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=hE0ODrmaiFE
Even a man who is true at heart
And says his prayers at night
May become a wolf
When the wolf bane blooms
And the moon is full and bright
Claude Rains
Ahh, Nick Drake. No one quite like him. If you dig Nick try: Elliott Smith, M. Ward, and Sufjan Stevens.
Off topic: From Elena somewhere up the page:
I am a beginner Turbot, but sometimes I have been, I still hurt others. Can we allow for each other to speak freely without having to believe each word of what we say, or agree? Just listen? Question as you are doing? Wonder? Take sips of each others soul as if it were the finest wine? Not disqualify each other no matter how ridiculous I or another might sound? If you let me sit around you, that alone will heal me.
You’ve been much questioning the righteousness and having answers. Don’t be afraid of having sincere answers that you can then replace when you find more sincere ones. What we are most afraid of is our own beauty. Our own beauty is not our own but ours
______________________________________________
Elena,
I have been away and just found this gem among others sparse on the blog.
I like you how you speak from the heart! you are a very gentle soul in fact so respectful of others. You are able to separate the words from the person who is writing them, and you do not attack the person unless you seem to be forced to do so to defend yourself.
I send you healing waves.
Bass wrote: After reading your post ‘ton, I understand what is behind her tears. The people who cling tightest to the Fellowship now may be those who have made such heart wrenching payments in the past, in the name of Evolution. The dissolution that may be occurring will certainly affect people like her the most. I will send your post to another mutual friend, and ask her to look out for M.
Bass I think you are think of a different M, I understood it is M R and you are talkig about M D. Maybe they both have he same back ground????
I wonder if all those M, E, L, S, G, S, T all these women, had abortions and or hysterectomies. So many women of that generation have no children and seem a little …..?
Then there is a group who gave their children away….can you believe this?
Then the men are “Infused” and form a “special” bond. They are the special ones who give their “nectar” to the Socio Path. And the ones who refuse to give their “nectar” will be excluded and ignored.
I dream of a city
Where people will be taught
What they are
Were love, healing and pureness is the standard
Where spirituality is interwoven in daily life…
Without one “leader”
I dream and see it in front of me.
Love and enjoy this day…
Deleted on request of the author. — ES
David B. (161) ~
You wrote ~
“Not only should we remove every Fellowship of Friends bookmark from any book we find, I would go even further and suggest that we ‘intentionally misplace’ any of Robert Burton’s books we happen to see in any bookstore.”
_________________________________________________
Perhaps you can “go even further” and print a ‘Notice of Robert Burton and The Fellowship of Friends Depravity’ and give it to the bookstore owner with this blog sites address; speak to them, educate and don’t procrastinate.
:.)
On the subject of misogyny:
Does anyone reading this have any direct knowledge about how the skirt “exercise” started – the first time?
When it was first instituted, there was NO Rose Garden for anyone to be sighted in, so the story about RB propositioning a masculine looking woman there is suspect – unless that was what brought about the second imposition of this lifestyle rule.
The first time that was handed down as an exercise was about 1980 or 1981. It was in place for several years, perhaps through the 80’s. It came back for a time in the 90’s. At the point RB declared pants to be an acceptable nuisance, it was always accompanied by the statement that “Nothing is being given, because nothing was taken away”.
‘ton ~ (154) ~
For what it’s worth (and I say this to others too, Whalerider, Elena, Joseph G., Bruce, Former Student, etc.) I am going to print out your post #154 and mail it today to the Governor’s Office of California and a few Yuba County Officials, yes, and I believe I will print some more ‘choice T-Bones’ and mail those too.
:.)
180: Bass
With no wish to undermine the thoughtful substance of your message, but – Please, let’s look at that term, “ladies”.
Why is it “men”, but always “ladies”, not “women”? Are we afraid of the power of that word? Is the neutralizing substitute “males” used even half as often as “ladies” is?
Years ago, talking with a guy on salary who kept referring to the females in the FOF’s herd of cattle as “the ladies” – he had no idea how ridiculous that was.
__________________
The Sacramento Bee
Contact The Bee: 2100 Q St., Sacramento, CA 95816
P.O. Box 15779, Sacramento, CA 95826
_________________________
Appeal-Democrat
P.O. Box 431
Marysville, CA 95901
_________________________
Los Angeles CITY BEAT
Att: Steve Appleford
5209 Wilshire Boulevard
Los Angeles, CA 90036
__________________________
Dennis Rockstroh
Blogs.mercurynews.com
__________________________
WIRED MAGAZINE
Corporate Communications
The Condé Nast Publications
4 Times Square
New York, NY 10036
__________________________
Attorney General’s Office California Department of Justice Attn: Public Inquiry Unit P.O. Box 944255 Sacramento, CA 94244-2550
____________________________________________
Office of Victims Services California Attorney General’s Office P.O. Box 944255 Sacramento, CA 94244-2550
___________________________________________
California Bureau of Investigation Attorney General’s Office, Division of Law Enforcement 1102 Q Street Sacramento, CA 95814
___________________________________________
Office of Victims Services California Attorney General’s Office P.O. Box 944255 Sacramento, CA 94244-2550
____________________________________________
California Attorney General’s Office
Crime and Violence Prevention Center
1300 I Street, Suite 1150
Sacramento, CA 95814
____________________________________________
Sexual Assault Felony Enforcement (SAFE) task forces were established in partnership with local and state law enforcement to reduce violent sexual assault crimes through proactive enforcement focused on predatory sex offenders. Many of these multi-jurisdictional, multi-agency task forces utilize CBI to serve as the Task Force Commander. CBI also serves as the Task Force Commander on SAFE task forces in partnership with the FBI to investigate crimes originating from the sexual exploitation of children via the Internet.
Sexual Predator Apprehension Team (SPAT) provides monitoring and apprehension of sexual habitual offenders and convicted sex offenders who fail to register with local authorities and takes a pro-active role in the investigation and prosecution of child molesters and violent sex offenders. SPAT provides leadership, coordination, expertise, and training to local law enforcement agencies.
The California Witness Protection Program provides protection of witnesses and their families, friends, or associates who are endangered due to ongoing or anticipated testimony in gang, organized crime, or narcotic trafficking cases or in other cases that have a high degree of risk to the witness. The CWPP reimburses California’s District Attorneys for expenses incurred by agencies during the protection of witnesses.
The Foreign Prosecution Program assists state and local law enforcement agencies in the location and prosecution of suspects who are Mexican nationals and flee to Mexico after committing major felony crimes in California; and assists with the deportation from Mexico of American fugitives who are wanted in California for homicide and child abduction cases; provides for the prosecution in Mexico of Mexican citizens who are accused of committing violent crimes in California; investigative assistance to foreign countries in matters that require the seizure of evidence, suspect interviews, and other requests from a foreign nation that may require investigative support; technical and logistical support to agencies requesting assistance involving the return of abducted children; oversees, when requested, the voluntary return or deportation of a foreign national who is a fugitive. Agents assigned to this program are located in the San Diego Regional Office.
The Unsolved Violent Crime Program provides assistance to local law enforcement in the investigation and resolution of unsolved violent crimes, such as, homicides, sexual assaults, and kidnappings. Agents assigned to this program are located in the Fresno Regional Office.
___________________________
l.t.y.a.
154
Which makes it particularly poignant that M had to carry this with her through the years. On one hand, it’s understandable that M has had to become so invested in supporting the status quo, rules etc., to assuage the eventual and imminent self-questioning that cannot help but happen during the eventual demise of the FOF. I don’t think it could be a sadder situation.
I think her occasional harshness to ex-students is actually her harshness to herself, something RB has invoked in many of us, out of shame, gullibility, stubbornness etc.
sorry for the darkness, but here it goes.
Since we live in a world of coincidences, I too am suddenly in the midst of splitting pains. I’ll say no more, but tonight I feel like a samurai. And I feel more and more that I have lived in a gulag. A fucking gulag survivor.
You are right, Vinnie, it was definitely a lager of my own choosing, I was not forced into submitting, and I will feel forever lucky for having participated in the Fellowship of Firends instead of Buchenwald. and for having escaped relatively scar-free (thank you Gods!!!!!!!) But the devastating pain of seeing all this is for real. People who share their horrible stories here have very little left within themselves of the self-complacent and smart-ass attitude that you seem so proud of displaying.
Maybe you are just not as intelligent as you would like yourself to be, but what can I say? Long time ago I had to admit I am no Einstein either. Actually, the fact of having relatively above average literacy skills hasn’t spared me one bit from making an inordinate amount of catastrophic decisions in my life. I now strongly believe that what keeps us Alive at the end of the day is the strenght of our heart, and Vinnie, yours is beating so slowly I still can’t hear it. Please, Vinnie’s heart , can you pound a little faster?
BTW, now I know why I posted the Daily Card quote. If this is the moon Robert Burton is referring too, then he’s really got me scared.
This is the light of the mind, cold and planetary
The trees of the mind are black. The light is blue.
The grasses unload their griefs on my feet as if I were God
Prickling my ankles and murmuring of their humility
Fumy, spiritous mists inhabit this place.
Separated from my house by a row of headstones.
I simply cannot see where there is to get to.
The moon is no door. It is a face in its own right,
White as a knuckle and terribly upset.
It drags the sea after it like a dark crime; it is quiet
With the O-gape of complete despair. I live here.
Twice on Sunday, the bells startle the sky —
Eight great tongues affirming the Resurrection
At the end, they soberly bong out their names.
The yew tree points up, it has a Gothic shape.
The eyes lift after it and find the moon.
The moon is my mother. She is not sweet like Mary.
Her blue garments unloose small bats and owls.
How I would like to believe in tenderness –
The face of the effigy, gentled by candles,
Bending, on me in particular, its mild eyes.
I have fallen a long way. Clouds are flowering
Blue and mystical over the face of the stars
Inside the church, the saints will all be blue,
Floating on their delicate feet over the cold pews,
Their hands and faces stiff with holiness.
The moon sees nothing of this. She is bald and wild.
And the message of the yew tree is blackness – blackness and silence.
Sylvia Plath
Hi friends,
Thanks Bruce for your posts on what it is really like to be one of Robert´s boys and have so much power that you can tell Linda, Girard or whoever to back off.
That alone shows the degree of complicity that Girard, Linda and other enablers have had for too long.
It is denigrating to anyone who is in anyway connected with the boys, Robert or these people. That is, the rest of students who simply pay so that it can continue to happen. These poor enablers really thought that Robert was beyond those laws but allowing Robert to free himself from them allowed them to indulge in similar corruption. The integrity was lost.
The other issue is that of women who had to give up their children. Unnamed damage has been done to families in almost every student by the Fellowship idea of biological families. A lifetime of not judging ourselves for what we did not have the being to avoid at the time and the consistent recreation of one´s life are more healing than any time spent on dwelling on this issue. These women are the ones that will need the greatest support if the Fellowship were ever to collapse. I do not know how but I offer any support to any one of these women who ever needs it. Any one of them including all those in the inner circle. There are places in Colombia where you could spend months resting for a third of what you spend in the states but you must first understand that resting is as much of a blessing as working.
I offer this because beyond the horrors that we´ve allowed each other to suffer I believe this women and men in the Fellowship of Friends, including Robert Burton are essentially sick people. Sick as in ill and a responsible society would give them help and not just send them to the public old people´s home as they were willing to do with Dorothy or some similar disaster. The compassion with which we treat ourselves now is the greatest healer to the lack of compassion with which we treated ourselves in the past. We cannot recover the children but we can help the mothers who still have them within, by not closing doors.
My younger daughter and I are only just beginning to heal after ten years of separation from the effects of these ideas creeping even just slightly into our lives.
TON, Thank you for your letter 154. No amount of negativity towards our deeds is a healer. Don´t blame yourself. There is no hell but the one we are willing to make for our selves. Take the pain and carry it. At the beginning it makes one walk bent, moan and hurt but after a while, one learns to carry it enough to walk straight again. You seem to have already walked that path and this replay on the blog is only a reassurance of that understanding. Thank you for your sharing.
Thank you Vera, hope we meet one of this days again here or there. When things are clearer in Colombia, I hope to have a place where you can all come and take time for your selves.
Thank you all for your posts and the continued life you´re giving to this cyberspace community.
Thanks, Unoanimo, for all your work (which Andrew Harvey terms “Sacred Activism”). I would like to add to your address list:
Tax Fraud
Internal Revenue Service
Fresno, CA 93888
and
Tax Fraud
Franchise Tax Board
P.O. Box 942840
Sacramento, CA 94240-0040
I pledge to send to sundry possibly interested agencies and publications at least five letters per week, stating what I know and including the blog URL, until the walls come down. Thanks again
can’t get the stink off,
he’s been hanging around for days.
comes like a comet,
suckered you but not your friends.
one day he’ll get to you,
teach you how to be a holy cow.
don’t get my sympathy hanging out the 15th floor.
you’ve changed the locks 3 times,
he still comes reeling through the door.
and soon he’ll get to you,
teach you how to get to purest hell.
you do it to yourself you do
and that’s what really hurts is
you do it to yourself just you,
you and no-one else
you do it to yourself.
can’t kick the habit!
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=R5X7HKxpiQA
Dear Laura,
When the night falls
And the thougts get to wild
The despair rages
I sit still silently and see the storm
As from a distance…
Then I do some rapid breathings, laying flat on bed or couch
around 60…times very fast , like hyperventilation
then no breathing for a few seconds
Silence , internally ….
Close to indifference but not really….
Somebody said to not attach to your thougts
From silence to quietness….no thougts…!
Hope this helps
For all the Laura’s Ton’s, Bruce’s and Whalerider and all.
HUG and embrace yourself.
Not Ragú for dinner again?
While the rest of the world weeps California plays in the waves:
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=IWbe-NSK6I
I don’t know if other Vista users are experiencing this, but every time I click on one of Laura’s usually uninspired youtube links my browser defaults to the Italian server which means that videos available in the U.S. do not necessarily exist at the “it.youtube” address. The fix requires “TOOLS”, “INTERNET OPTIONS”, “DELETE” all history and a reboot.
While the rest of the world weeps California plays in the waves:
What is generally not known is that “surf music” was invented in Japan:
192 Graduates
“Laura’s usually uninspired youtube links”
You are joking, right?
Bruce ~
Now, how would Graduates joke? Are you joking?
Bruce 194
192 Graduates
“Laura’s usually uninspired youtube links”
You are joking, right?
************
Her links are usually not to my taste (heavy downers or too light-weight or just plain irritatingly uncreative), except for the Leonard Cohen stuff- the guy is a genius.
Anyway, cheer up Laura. I don’t know where you are but you’re not in the Fellowship of Fiends any longer so practice some simple happiness and leave the daily resentment behind.
Some Cheer:
unoanimo 195
Bruce ~
Now, how would Graduates joke? Are you joking?
*******
Important Information:
195 unoanimo
Re:197… see, he has some kind of perverse funny bone.
Laura, I love your posts.
Greetings all – I am scheduled to begin ‘Work’ with the FOF at a center in a major city in the next few weeks. I am only interested in being present and I’ve found working with others with similar aims to be most beneficial. There is a lot of esoteric-sounding nonsense surrounding the 4th Way school of thought and I can really only go on what I’ve been able to verify for myself; namely, trying to awaken seems like a better quality of being than sleepwalking through life. What appeals most to me about FOF is the idea of drawing from all the esoteric traditions to create a sort of super-non-denominational religion. In theory, the idea of taking the core truths and cutting away all the extraneous hogwash sounds like exactly what I’ve always felt was right. At first, the negative press coverage of FOF actually piqued my curiosity. I figured that we men numbers 1-6 may not be in a position to judge a man no. 7, self-proclaimed though he may be, and I was willing to suspend disbelief until I had a reason to do otherwise. They ask for 150 a month for the first year – quite reasonable if they deliver as promised. I’ve been assured that it is most important that I verify everything for myself – to determine if this is the right school environment for me – and that no question is off-limits. I revel in creating social dissonance, so they won’t get to me by applying that kind of pressure. I don’t give a damn about being thrown out and shunned – unless I’m losing something of real value that I cannot get anywhere else. I’m one to tempt fate, and I am quite curious, but I if I’m going to go through with this I want you all to ‘go with me’ in spirit and counsel me along the way. I am open to your comments, questions, suggesting and I’d like you to coach me through this experience. Tell me how to get the most out of it, without getting used and abused. Thanks.
P.S. Are there other 4th Way groups out there that aren’t as cult-like as the FOF? I’d really like to be involved in the work with others and study the esoteric traditions of all the major religions without getting conned.
When the lower self ends up on the moon,it demonstrates how worthless he was.
Love Robert
When the lower self ends up on the moon,it demonises angels with it’s bad habits begging them to prolong it’s presence with the ‘longer be’.
Love Rolex
P.S. Bares Reposting #174,
look for another name you little thief.
deleted at the author’s request
Here’s a link for all the cloud lovers.
http://www.cloudappreciationsociety.org/gallery/index.php?showimage=3182
The following selection has been inspired by various viewpoints on this blog. The ideas expressed are not necessarily those of the poster and any veiled reference to someone you may know is in the mind of the reader. Enjoy!
Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one’s definition of your life; define yourself. Harvey Fierstein
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious. Brendan Gill
Fortunately analysis is not the only way to resolve inner conflicts. Life itself still remains a very effective therapist. Karen Horney
I have a simple philosophy: Fill what’s empty. Empty what’s full. Scratch where it itches. Alice Roosevelt Longworth
God writes a lot of comedy… the trouble is, he’s stuck with so many bad actors who don’t know how to play funny. Garrison Keillor
Here is the test to find whether your mission on Earth is finished: if you’re alive, it isn’t. Richard Bach
Look, I don’t want to wax philosophic, but I will say that if you’re alive you’ve got to flap your arms and legs, you’ve got to jump around a lot, for life is the very opposite of death, and therefore you must at the very least think noisily and colorfully, or you’re not alive. Mel Brooks
‘ton, Bruce, Another Name, Bass Ackwards,
There’s no question about the value of personal stories posted here but I’m concerned about the fairness of disclosing personal information regarding others. Another Name and Bass, you spell out the initials in such a way that it’s clear who’s being discussed in your posts, and I wonder if it’s appropriate to expose M’s story before it’s “time”, which in my opinion is HER time.
M drank the kool-aid. Few of us went that far. We know that her journey to reconcile all these pieces will be immensely difficult, probably more difficult than yours, ‘ton.
Ironically, Bass, you posted your story (172) to offer a “view from the inside” that shows the pain here, then in post 180 you spelled out M’s identity, so there was no hope of anonymity for her. Even though you care for her, this seems careless to me. I don’t think anyone here should presume license of that kind over another’s personal stories.
across the river 203,
thank you for your sensitivity in the matter.
i’ve made a few mistakes here on the blog… omitting quotation marks and referencing to begin with — i hope that is the least of it.
when i first started blogging i fear i may have given too much information — information that discloses my identity. from that it is easy enough to figure out who the unfortunate wife was.
i like to think that “truth is a healer” and in the interest of “full disclosure” i might have gone too far. i hope this isn’t a mistake — legal battles are not something i care to get involved in… AND I DO NOT WANT TO INFLICT MORE DAMAGE ON THE “KOOL-AIDE-DRINKERS” — especially those i still know and care about. that’s certainly not the intent of my posting here. i hope that it will not be an unforeseen consequence.
in this regard,
dear uno 182,
i’m not comfortable with “my story” being made more public unless there is some assurance of anonymity for the parties concerned.
‘done here’, not (don’t here)
204
“dear uno 182,
i’m not comfortable with “my story” being made more public unless there is some assurance of anonymity for the parties concerned.”
________________________________________________
Well ‘ton you’re doing it, not me; you posted your story on a blog site that is read by up to 1300 people a day, including government and state officials, INS, the local community, etc.
It’s cool, I don’t ‘have to’ use your story as a sample in mailings, yet, to me ‘ton you’re barking up the wrong tree, after all, as I said, you’ve already don’t here on the blog what you’re “not comfortable with”… what’s up with that?
Strong story and writing; let me know if you change your mind.
_____________
l.t.y.a.
Sheik please delete the previous posts from me “Vida Tem Um
so Vida” some points were inappropriate
I appreciate it — here is the new one
=====
‘Ton
all my empathy to you and your wife. Your story goes beyond all the other stories told so far.
What happened is a true crime and the everyone involved soon or later must deal with the consequences of their actions.
=====
Can true humility and compassion exist in our words and eyes unless we know we too are capable of any act?
– St. Francis of Assisi
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Xena maybe you will like this…
uno 206
“i’m not comfortable with “my story” being made more public unless there is some assurance of anonymity for the parties concerned.”
________________________________________
i know the site is accessible to many… i should have emphasized “being made ‘MORE’ public…”
unfortunately it seems i’ve made my identity here too transparent. the resultant potential for doing harm to current “friends” (as pointed out by across the river 203) is what concerns me.
i have been partly ignorant and mostly sloppy about posting here, i apologize, that’s my mistake… i think i can say, that we all say / write, and do things about which we have “second thoughts” and misgivings. that’s at the root of what is meant when i say “i’m not comfortable with…”
with anonymity, i would have no problem with use of “my story.” when i started blogging here a little over a month ago, i had no idea where the unraveling and dialolgue would lead. if i could do it over knowing where this was going, i would have better disguised myself. but i don’t think it’s possible to put toothpaste back into the tube, unless you know of a way…? my bad.
i appreciate what you’re doing here.
thanks for considerately caring in this case
and for not “jumping-on-my-throat.”
This is a quotation about a real teacher from someone who was a real teacher to me.
“The Teacher or Guide is in service to the student. The student is not there to serve the needs of the teacher. This is why the very best teachers are completely free. That means that their happiness and emotional state is not dependent on anyone else. That includes the success of the student. When the teacher emotionally needs or wants the student to succeed, then the teacher is now dependent on the apprentice. When this happens then both are trapped in emotional dependency.”
When I moved to Isis/Apollo, I was shocked at the disparity between my ideal and what I saw. But I used the ideas of the work (feminine dominance, the lower can’t see the higher …) like drug to numb myself. But in the end, none of it, could keep me from seeing the insanity of the teacher/student relationship. This was five years ago and I found myself feeling guilty and alone unable to share my thoughts and feelings with anyone including my partner.
The defense mechanism of the school was firmly in place, my attempts at questioning were met with fear and paralysis from those closest to me. My partner’s disappointment in my ability to do the work became rejection. A year later, my partner returned from a meeting with Robert saying, I have received the key to what I have to do. “I want to end this marriage because I need to awaken and you are not a good third force to my work.”
I never thought of myself as a fragile person, but there I was alone, vulnerable and suffering. After two years of processing these losses, I can say it has been worth it to recover the freedom of my mind and heart.
‘ton ~
Sometimes karma unravels in mysterious ways… You’ve done nothing ‘wrong’… assumed or ‘personalized-by-others- mistakes are simply blurry glasses that cannot help but not see you and have nothing to do with your actual eyesight… to me one of the greatest hindrances to being objectively ‘You’ is the shyness that occurs ‘around’ the gut (not in it), which keeps oneself from simply putting it out there when it wants out, how the neighbors rebuild their flower beds after one’s 400 lb pet pig is caught is their business, not yours altogether, although a few starter-tomato plants wouldn’t hurt.
:.)
Photograph for the Superintendent:
Beware that ambitious smile that tenaciously hunts down new and old acquaintances, it is always the most conniving social predator of the pack. Collecting promissory notes for insincere goodwill from as many eager patrons as possible is vanity’s version of a blood sport. The prey is slaughtered with conversation between jousts of knives and forks and finally captured as a perpetually expected guest and expecting host that is never touched with heartfelt thanks or ever thanked with heartfelt touch.
#209 nicely written, especially that last sentence: The prey is slaughtered with conversation between jousts of knives and forks and finally captured as a perpetually expected guest and expecting host that is never touched with heartfelt thanks or ever thanked with heartfelt touch.
ton,
maybe you can ask the Sheik to remove your posts where you feel you said too much? It’s a little help perhaps, better than nothing.
I actually have no idea who are the people with initials you mentioned about, maybe this is small consolation many of us do not have a clue.
Sending good thougths your way.
if memory serves (around) 210
#209 nicely written, especially that last sentence: The prey is slaughtered with conversation between jousts of knives and forks and finally captured as a perpetually expected guest and expecting host that is never touched with heartfelt thanks or ever thanked with heartfelt touch.
*******
I don’t know why it so gets on my nerves that the jack of hearts seems to rule the world.
ton–I doubt any outside authorities who read your posts would be able to identify the people with initials. The only ones who could properly identify them were probably around the community enough that they should be aware that these things happened. Of course they may have buffered it out of their consciousness.
xena 213
re: putting toothpaste back…
i’ll go over my posts starting on pg 19… will contact the sheik about editing identifiers… hate to make more work for him… how to contact sheik with this sort of request (?) i’ll figure it out…
uno 206
“…let me know if you change your mind.”
re: going pubic…
if i can obfuscate the identities, i support the use of “my story” for your purposes here. i’ll get back to you if / when a rewrite is in place… and with other ideas for wider exposure.
Dearest Ton,
Your email, has given me much more understanding about you and your wife and…..others. I understand much more of why they are what they are and my ….what is the right word….love or symphaty, no, compassion has increased for you, the women and others…..
I do not believe in holding info back….we already know so much about each other…more then you think.
Something I wanted to share with you, something I was reading by accident…
The endocrine glands, the sexual hormones, react very strongly to the feeling if inability and the “absence of the living”I” center”, but instead of transforming extra energy into self -realization, one allows oneself to be drawn along through the sexual game, in order to fill up the emptiness. Inwardly so small, outwardly so big.
He/She does not love himself. Sex replaces love but it is a bottomless vat.
He’she does not at all feel warm and sheltered.
He is afraid of his feelings, untill he looks for an outlet.
It is good to realize why there are feeling of lust to a child (or younger person.)
will be coninued….
Does this reminds you of Robert Burton?
I am curious to your responses….
re: going pubic…
Can’t you see….nothing to worry about when the pubic area is more important then awakening or being/ or comapssion.
Love to you my friend (s).
215 Another Name
“Something I wanted to share with you, something I was reading by accident…”
there are a lot of different ways of looking at “accidents.”
here’s (just) one…
http://www.shadowdance.com/articles/articlenoaccidents.html
graduates….212 what’s up with the jack of hearts? where did that come from?
212 Graduates
“I don’t know why it so gets on my nerves that the jack of hearts seems to rule the world”
——————
Perhaps because you take the world too seriously.
That and that you think there is a ‘jack of hearts’.
203 Across the River
“We know that her journey to reconcile all these pieces will be immensely difficult, probably more difficult than yours ‘ton.”
If not now then when? Maybe this is her time.
By all means let’s keep this anonymous and general. Certainly everthing will change in a heartbeat.
We should continue jerking off here while the gluttonous rape and the sucking from from the ancient inflictions continues unhindered. Why not it is the American way.
KA (around) 218
graduates….212 what’s up with the jack of hearts? where did that come from?
********
My post @ 209 is my description of the level of superficial emotion that results when people only connect through the shallow interactions of vanity, from the practice of people collecting people just for the sake of trying to stave off the inner emotional emptiness that is there due to a lack of in-depth connection between human beings. There is nothing wrong with emotional interactions through the jack of hearts, but it always seems to be tainted by the social structure that the politics of vanity imposes over everything. Now, it took as many words to explain the intuitive prose as it did to express it.
Graduates “Now, it took as many words to explain the intuitive prose as it did to express it.”
Thank you for reminding me about John Cage. I youtubed (now a verb!) 4′33″ and got this at 9minutes 22seconds.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hUJagb7hL0E
Then I watched it, –really. I’ve read so very, very, – very- much about it but never watched/listened to a full orchestral version of it – or any version of it actually…and …. WOW. No-, ‘wow’ is not a good description. Try it, please! Once you get over the J of H and buffering and the judgment, then actually listen! Just sit and be present and listen. I’m so glad I did.
The commentary at the end IS actually incredibly hysterical tho, so the J of H does come back in – in a Jack Handey (JH….twilight zone!) sort of way. Which sort of reinforces your implied point that commentary is often not the real treasure. But thanks, anyhow, for your short pithy elucidation. :-) (<— that, BTW, is a ’smiley face’!)
#221 Oh, I thought you were writing about RB.
#218 And thanks, KA, I was going to ask the same thing but you beat me to it.
212 ~
“I don’t know why it so gets on my nerves that the jack of hearts seems to rule the world.”
____________________________
Perhaps, it’s because the ‘Jack of Hearts’ is at the opposite end of the egoism-spectrum (naive-ism vs Tarzan-musk-wonderment-ism), whereas the King of Clubs is at the other, they ‘bounce off one another’, one takes the other too seriously, salivates over the grounded-ness and jungle tenacity of the ‘King of the Jungle’, whereas the other (the King) surmises a kind of secret disdain (after) the ‘happy mouse’ pulls the splinter from it’s paw. (?)
Oh, yes, ‘Tom and Jerry’, ‘Sylvester and Tweedy Bird’, the ‘Coyote and Road Runner’, ‘Elmer Fudd and Bugs Bunny’… etc., etc.
Hey! Robert Burton and all attending Sunday Meetings.
_____________________________________________
:.)
BTW,
Happy Birthday Eliza T… Ya, gotta wonder what’s going on across the street though, yes?
:.)
Unoanimo,
Let me see if I understand the situation…
There is a sodomy cult just down the road in this relatively rural area where there is virtually no patrol cars, where a phoned in complaint to local police might take an hour or more to be responded to, and the current cult members, presumably hundreds of them, each hyper-sensitive to “negativity” and “low alchemy,” freely move around the area and the local population while completely immune to any delivery of insult, harsh words, or any degree of verbal confrontation? No one shouts, “Hey did you have Bob’s wanger up your ass before breakfast?” No one flips them the bird? No one exhibits the least degree of the kind of free speech that America is famous for? Why? Why are the cult members of an organization where the leader is allegedly perpetrating homosexual rape on heterosexuals enjoying such a peaceful reception from people that obviously despise their perverted rituals? What makes the non-cult population of that small town so polite?
If at all possible could you phase your reply in an entirely incomprehensible stream of poetic free association, so that no one but yourself understands a word?
It was said that Moses was the only one to see God
face to face. Only long BE sees divine presence face
to face; it is the “end of looking.”
Love, Robert
St. Augustine: The very vision of God . is the end
of looking.
RB why are you stealing from great man for the sake of your ignorance? I am sure that st. Augustine didn’t mean this…why you deliberately use his words to convey your poor and miserable interpretation? St. Augustine and Long be? If only he could speak…
This is one of the 100000 examples of your manipulation. Leave the quotation of dead man and be brave enough to speak for yourself…..or better why don’t you use the words of someone who is alive? …….and see what they think? ….ah sorry forgot you are the only living conscious being! eheheheh……
Graduates 212 “I don’t know why it so gets on my nerves that the jack of hearts seems to rule the world.”
That is your mechanicality. But you knew that …….
Dear Graduates,
I have been wondering, why you react so harsly for months now…
Why you info goes know where in the sense of love, compassion, support,
Always in the opposite…
What is your inner hurt…why do you cover your pain with more…
How much different does this make you from a pain like Robert Burton who was abused as a child by several? Still manifest this and hurts so many others…can expresss love but goes onto hurting others as he has been hurt?
Tell me without covering up your pain.
Just where is your hurt and unfinished business (emotional) Like all the men and women dear, Acros the river, and now there is a change to heal and finish some emotional business…
As you can tell I do believe in expressing and sharing your hurts like Laura, Ton and Whale rider did and others…
Well who am I…Hugs and love and hug yourself…
Another Name 228
******
I don’t know if you’re the same nut that leaves a comment on my GF page almost every day, but if you are you need to find another project.
(third try)
Another Name 228
******
I don’t know if you’re the same nut that leaves a comment on my GF page almost every day, but if you are you need to find another project.
Someone said time is a factor.
Here’s to time as the FOF’s unavoidable revelator. Honest production values, no hurry, and no doubt of the ultimate outcome.
Just found this blog. Wow! Names and stories bring back lots of memories. Joined in 1974 in Santa Barbara. Joel and Carol were the leaders. Met Charles R there also. Moved to the ranch soon after and then sent to Detroit in 1976 to help to open a center there. Never was a fan of Robert. Always had a bit of suspicion about him, and his prophecies and his reading of meanings about his greatness into things. Of course I did not share any of this, as I assumed it was my own stuff to work on and did not want to bring negative ideas to anyone else’s work. Never felt part of the ‘inner circle’. Not sorry for the time I spent in the school. It was the ideas I was already attracted to initially, and I would say that I met many of the most wonderful people I had ever met in my life. I feel like I learned a lot from Joel and Miles and so many, many others, and I thank them all for that. Bruce and Spencer I remember from my time at the ranch, though they may not remember me. I stayed in the background-(non-existence?) – just a worker bee. Heard rumor of R’s sexual activity not long before leaving, and verified very soon after with another ex-student who had been one of R’s entourage for a short time. I assumed wrongly that more people knew what was going on. My own reasons for leaving, which I had decided upon before even hearing of R’s sexual activities, were partly financial, but mostly I felt strongly that there was just something wrong. I could not define it to myself well at the time, but something inside just knew. Joel – it is so good to know you are still out there somewhere, you were a very positive influence on my life. Bruce – I appreciate your wit and quickness of mind- thanks. And Spencer, I remember you from when you played your role at the lodge, and appreciate the work you are now doing and the ideas you have shared; however you did not wash all the dishes. I used to wash the china and glassware from R’s dinners 3-4 nights a week. Anyway the blog brings so many memories and a lot wondering about so many lovely people. The blog makes me wonder once again whether R conned everyone from the beginning or did he just get lost and forget that he had stuff he not worked out yet, and then just could not let the money and the opportunities to feed his desires go. He was so dishonest with all of us. But I cannot help but think of G’s idea that there is no such thing as conscious evil. Robert has harmed people and I hope it comes to an end, but do not assign to him more power than a sleeping being could possibly have. Thanks for being there.
228
Dear Another Name,
Thank you for your concern about my hurt and unfinished emotional business as well as everybody elses hurt and unfinished emotional business. This is truly what you do!
Simply put, I’m not much into group therapy. If that reads to you “hurt and unfinished emotional business”, then so be it. If your comment was an answer to my post 203, I stand by the understanding I expressed there.
I appreciate you, AN, and call you a friend. I don’t consider either one of us lacking simply because our experiences are our own and not necessarily the same. I know we both wish to heal with our words.
======================================================
220
Dear Yesri Baba,
Don’t worry, there’s no way that ancient inflictions continue unhindered. It may be true that this is her time.
======================================================
With Love to and for us all.
And here is my gift of the J of H to the FOF’s unavoidable revelator.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=rVaw8WivNr8
Oh and it’s now time to reveal myself. I am Sally Black for anybody who didn’t know already.
Graduates wrote ~
“Unoanimo,
Let me see if I understand the situation…”
_________________________________
Yes, let’s see, indeed…
__________________
“There is a sodomy cult just down the road in this relatively rural area where there is virtually no patrol cars, where a phoned in complaint to local police might take an hour or more to be responded to,”
_____________________
Actually a policeman lives a stones throw from Oregon House Grocery, that is, about a 2 minute high speed drive to get to the gate house ‘guarding’ the “Sodomy Cult” from the ‘Cork Police’…
Plopped down in the middle of the Sierra Nevada Foothills, surrounded by rattlesnakes, bears, mountain lions, bobcats, robert burtons, foxes, deer and dears, lizards and honey bees (that are not indigenous to the United States),
views at an altitude of 1800 feet, where every land owner has no less than 5 acres each, is hardly “relatively rural”, yet, unless you’re from the amazon jungle, I guess you could call it that then.
It takes about 10-15 minutes (or less if the policeman is eating donuts at the Oregon House Grocery) to respond to a call; the main ‘police station’ is in Brownsville, a 15 minute downhill drive to Oregon House.
You can be sure that a “phoned in complaint” is jumped on like a maggot to an old potato; the local police and Yuba County Police Department are ready to pounce at any little china smash via the bull in the shop… They used to park there patrol vehicles right outside of ‘Isis’ and wait for people to get onto public roads drunk from Robert Burton’s emotionally placebo-ik receptions, till a certain lawyer put a stop to it… when T. called the police on M. concerning her daughter, I would fathom that it certainly did not take an hour to get there when one of the policemen only lived a 2 minute drive from her and is always on call.
________________________________
“and the current cult members, presumably hundreds of them, each hyper-sensitive to “negativity” and “low alchemy,” freely move around the area and the local population while completely immune to any delivery of insult, harsh words, or any degree of verbal confrontation? No one shouts, “Hey did you have Bob’s wanger up your ass before breakfast?” No one flips them the bird? No one exhibits the least degree of the kind of free speech that America is famous for? Why?”
________________________
Graduates, wow, you’ve been watching too many movies my friend… I guess you forgot about the end of the Jonestown Documentary, where Jim Jones orders his ‘devout followers’ to go to the landing strip and murder every one possible via the Governor’s investigative party, the Waco situation, the rumors that Fellowship ‘dears’ close to Robert Burton are ‘nuts and heavily armed’; I mean, the looks of ‘Isis’ in the middle of such a community is not so different from a mafia drug cartel’s mansion on the outskirts of a poverty ridden city; yet, there’s hundreds of ‘little Isis’s’ everywhere, thanks to Robert Burton’s famous ‘tea parties’ at students houses via the auction item bids; see, students remodel and build their houses with ‘The Teacher’s Visiting One Day’ in mind, not to mention Robert Burton ‘assisting’ the building design of ‘certain mini-flag-pole devotees’ in their house design per Robert Burton’s plans for them and their house’s ‘function’.
And truly, around here, there’s not that many ‘mountain folk’ to stir up trouble, although there was two guys that ruffed up the security guard one night, and a few instances of vandalism and ‘certain someones’ coming through the ‘back-gate’ entrance to ‘The Property’ and stealing various quantities of wine, mechanical equipment and a 2000 pound ceramic kiln (that one’s my favorite) since it was stored two stories up and took a fork lift to achieve ‘I-got-it-ness’.
All of the ‘others’ have families, some of their children attend the same schools as the Fellowship of Friends, some of the rougher ‘non-members’ are even employed by one of Robert’s boys (unbeknown to them)… etc., etc.
So, too, many locals understand that Robert Burton is a malignant tumor on the end of a dead elephants phallus, sucking up nutrients from the rotting corpses sepsis ooze;
they do not really dig so deep as to wrap their wiseacring around the idea of holding all Fellowship of Friends members responsible for ‘The Teachers’ actions, mainly due to ‘comfort and ignorance is bliss-ness’…
IF something were to happen to ‘one of their own’, then, everything you are wondering about as to why it does not occur, would then, certainly be answered by an affirmative ‘all hell breaking loose’, it’s sorta medieval up here, guns stay loaded and bear traps sharpened, lines are drawn and people simply wait for who ever it is that crosses that line to achieve eight foot deep horizontal statehood… It’s a Rural Thing… IF enough people made enough noise, others would follow, it’s a powder keg waiting for a spark,
maybe you should take some time away from wherever you live and vacation up here for a month of two and we can camo up and do the Apocalypse Now thingy, maybe even plant some remote controlled tape recorders around the academy and whenever Robert’s lights go out, we can sound some sort of recording, like, say, something crunching through leaves or heavy breathing, or the pre-recoil of an M60 grenade launcher (?) Let me know.
____________________________________________
“Why are the cult members of an organization where the leader is allegedly perpetrating homosexual rape on heterosexuals enjoying such a peaceful reception from people that obviously despise their perverted rituals? What makes the non-cult population of that small town so polite?”
______________________
They make themselves, ask them; I would say it’s simply fear of a preemptive retaliation and too, you gotta understand the 37 years of Oregon House Psyche programming; whereas Robert Burton’s actions are basically ‘covered-up’ in the consciences of ‘non-members’ exactly like it is covered up and buffered away by the ‘members’ of the Fellowship of Friends; they simply say, “It’s not my problem, it’s a SEX-Thing.” And of course, in a country where ’sex’ is the most buffered and most misunderstood of all natural freedoms, go figure, people choose the ‘dark age/new age approach’ over their consciences… Then there’s that “I gotta have drama and something to gossip about opiate”… If you get rid of Robert Burton, the ‘chosen ones’ won’t have anything to transform and go to heaven for, right?
Whew, what a Nut Tree! Oh, and don’t forget, money talks up here and for the most part the Fellowship of Friends is the 4th largest tax contributor in all of Yuba County, albeit that they still owe, they do pay and the Fellowship of Friends memberships pay to slip ‘psychic opiates’ in the non-members ‘Town Hall Meetings’… Yep, Fear and Money, that Robert Burton’s legacy and his ‘followers’ invest heavily to keep the tumor looking ‘odd’, so to hope that someday it’ll be a ‘boy’, just like his father…
___________________________________
___________________________________
“If at all possible could you phase your reply in an entirely incomprehensible stream of poetic free association, so that no one but yourself understands a word?”
__________________________________
Hopefully, Graduates, I already did this above, let me know if you understood anything I wrote, if so, well, I didn’t write it, someone else did.
_________________
Love to you all.
234
The local economy, land values etc. of the Oregon House area is largely dependent on the FOF for it’s increase and stabilization, regardless of what the locals think, and they know it. They don’t want it to return to what is was like in the 70’s. The newer businesses on the roads couldn’t survive.
On the other hand I could also see the possibility of some unknown event that would cause the non-member locals to get frenzied and easily swing to the other side, even if temporarily (back to the money criteria).
Bruce ~
Remember that guy who was considering moving to the Oregon House area (he posted on the blog)… ? … He googled ‘Oregon House’ and (hee hee) found this blog site, read and decided to move elsewhere; now, there’s some ‘preventive maintenance’… Yes, land value, yet… well; soon enough Yuba County officials and various California officials will have to start asking some ‘tough questions’, like, if they don’t do something now about the Fellowship of Friends and Robert Burton, can they afford to simply ‘wait till he dies’ so to possibly have ‘blood on their hands’ for choosing ‘cash’ and ‘land values’ over certain ‘Christian Values’ (?) That, of course, would haunt them; nothing a six pack and some Duncan Donuts won’t take care of for awhile though…. mmmmm, Heineken and Duncan Donuts!
:.)
Uno ” Fellowship of Friends is the 4th largest tax contributor in all of Yuba County, albeit that they still owe, they do pay and the Fellowship of Friends memberships pay to slip ‘psychic opiates’ in the non-members ‘Town Hall Meetings’…”
???
KA
There’s ‘Oregon House’ Community Center (Town Hall) meetings nearly once a month, Fellowship of Friends ‘members’ attend those meetings so to ‘help’ concentrate on the ‘more important issues’ (detouring attention away from Robert Burton’s ‘personal issues’ and on to more important ‘in the now’ issues, like, more post office boxes at the Oregon House Post Office or a high speed internet petition from AT & T… Whooooo! Gotta have that high speed HD-TV connection, not the possible HIV connection Robert Burton is providing).
And yes, the Fellowship of Fiends puts ‘gold’ in Yuba County’s ‘war-chest-coffers’; how do you think Allison was able to ’sweet talk’ the Fire-chief into allowing the Theatron to get it’s ‘limited use permit’?
After all, I do not think she’s his type,
albeit, money and hillbilly-aristocratic-demur-tours are highly slurped up by the unsuspecting wanna-be’s in Yuba County politics…
Oh, and don’t forget the complimentary wine the Fellowship of Friends ships out to it’s ‘moon-food-supporters’;
hummmm, it’s like feeding a cow ice-cream and cheese to get it fat for slaughter… Oh, the ironies of mountain life!
:.)
unoanimo 234
*******
Do the locals know that Bob and his followers worship the number 6-6-6 or something like that and take their revelations from animal droppings or something like that? Do you ever go to the local churches on Sunday and tell them about Bob and the mob, because they might not be so polite once they understand that Bob is the antichrist or something like that?
My guess would be that after all these years RB’s “secret” has made the rounds of the non-member locals as well. The Appeal Democrat had followed the various sex trials sporadically. Many of the locals are not idiots, they know what’s going on, but again one returns to what is best for one’s self, and money’s way up there.
An interesting note: I was speaking to a reporter I knew at The Union (the NC/Grass Valley paper) a few years ago. I had noticed an influx of advertising and Op Eds concerning the wonderful FOF winery, ballet, concerts etc. I asked why his was the only paper that hasn’t covered any of the “news” about the FOF. He gave me one ridiculous argument after another (they knew about the “stuff” but intentionally didn’t believe it) and I knocked down every argument as pure bull shit. He finally said “we don’t like to bite the hand that feeds us”. His one true statement.
Even the Appeal Democrat leaves The Union in the dust when it comes to integrity.
Waiting for my first submission to be o.k.’d by the moderator, and already feel the need to add to it. When I wrote it I had only read a smattering of comments by a variety of people, most of which were speaking about the ’system’ and other paths and schools of thought. I saw some familiar names and was excited for some reason by the idea of those people of long ago speaking about what was a powerful part of my life, and obviously their’s as well. As I went back and read more and more entries and began to see and feel a little of the pain that this obviously damaged man has caused, I felt almost guilty by what I had written. While it is true that because of the friendships I formed and the rather intense learning about myself that I experienced, that I do not personally regret the time I spent there, I will have to say that I am sorry that I contributed to this man in any way, given the level of pain that he created in some of these innocent people’s lives. I guess I have to feel lucky that I was not a target for him, and that I stayed in the background, and had very few meetings or personal moments with him. As I said in my first comment, I always had reservations about him, but I was able to lay them aside for what I felt like I was learning and because of other students I had come to trust and in my own way to love. I remember when I was in Detroit and the initial body of students who had been sent there were being called back to California, I had requested to stay there longer. Linda K had said she would have to ask R and then get back to me. When she called back she said that R thought it better that I come back to the ranch. I knew in my heart that he could not have cared less about whether I was in Detroit or in California, and that his decision was not based on his caring about my evolution. Still I tried to be a ‘good student’ and do as I was told. When I got back to Calif and the ranch I could sense that things were moving ever more in a direction that I found difficult to follow. Things had become more strict in ways that seemed like something more than just trying to create friction and work for the students. More and more money was wanted. There appeared to be less and less compassion evident, from some of those in power. It was also then (1978) that I heard the first rumors of R’s little games with some of his chosen male students. I did not know, of course, that these were not activities between assenting adults. I assumed that if it was going on that it was what these students had wanted also. I still certainly thought it odd, but felt in no position to judge. I think one of the reasons I left the school was prompted in part by something R had said once. I will have to paraphrase,but it was along the lines of,
“If someone should be fortunate enough to meet a conscious school and then leave it, it would be better if he had never been born.” I remember cringing when I heard that and knew right then that there was the leverage of fear being used on people. When I think of this man leveraging young men into sexual acts they did not wish to engage in, by holding the possibility of spiritual progress in front of them, I have to think that very serious crimes were committed.
Anyway I am still glad to hear the names I recognize, and I wonder about so many other gentle souls that I met there. I just hope that the healing that is needed by those who were hurt, is coming to them. If I have any advice to offer it would be to try and let go. There is nothing gained by trying to analyze darkness. Darkness will never lead to any light, darkness is the absence of light. Nothing sane can come from trying to understand insanity. Insanity, by its very nature, makes no sense. My best wishes to all of you.
Graduates ~
“or something like that”…
_______________________
Look, Graduates, I am not too sure how much ’street smarts’ your particular ’spirit’ has gathered in its earthy journeys so far, I would assume, not too much…
Hills people don’t roll their dice based on “something like that”…
Truly, ‘The Sopranos’ are much more compelling to verify in the moment than wiseacring about one man’s title as “Antichrist”;
after all, this ain’t up state New York, it’s California, there’s at least 100 men and women competing for the title of Antichrist… so, go figure.
You seem to be ‘out in left field’ on this one; I’d advise you to ask more and tell less or at least give deeper consideration to the type of essences that live in such external spaces as the Sierra Nevada Foothills…
Just down the road is one of the most prolific producers of Methamphetamines in the United States; Brownsville is it’s own ’state’ (thanks to the Declaration of Independence as interpreted by a Saturnine country of 50 different psychic inner states).
So, unless there’s some ole fashioned ‘Hell Raising’, then, as Bruce suggested; Yuba County officials would rather have a ‘hand job’ from Robert Burton and the Fellowship of Friends’ than nothing at all… are there any decisions one can make not requiring a mirror?
I mean, so much of this is about ‘doubt’ and the pain body need to reciprocate ‘drama’ for Drama’s sake… nothing is sacred because no one has earned enough ‘balls in the wind-ness’ to be called ’self-sacred’,
everyone expects something at the end of the day; conscience is thwarted by a few ballet tickets, a call or two from T. Richard’s Ranch (whose wife was a ‘member’), etc.
I know I am going to get ‘poo hitting the fan’ for this one, yet, so what?
So ~
what you are actually asking is for people to sacrifice their second state ‘grocery list’ for some third state ‘poverty and hand-job-celibacy’…
It will not happen, UNLESS, there’s so much bitching that the noise of it becomes ‘uncomfortable’ and starts to bleed outside of California, call more Democrats and less Republicans…
Who knows, this cesspool of cults that California has for decades supported with ‘her’ New Age, Gold Alchemy Tolerance may indeed be turned another direction,
after all, that’s what Robert Burton has done for 37 years, certainly, in Arkansas, he would have been lynched in weeks…
Yet, California is stuck in some sort of time frame and cannot see the toilet for its big “but”…
“But” is nearly always connected to ulterior motives and money…
Make a Democrat excited about a Republicans premature orgasm and you might stir up the pot, until then, money and vanity will prevail,
it’s never about the individual in such a scale as countries and governments, it’s about what serves the future, not the present now, and since the future is 100% wiseacring, you can figure what sort of logic supports such investments;
until one changes the now, nothing in the future will ‘move’ one millimeter, real conscious will has no religion of yesterday (hell) or tomorrow (heaven)…
This is Earth, people are reflections of astrology and very little keeps them from following it’s power, conscience is a beginning, one of our most blessed and most plain colored choices available…
No body is going to go where their being cannot automatically go at any given ‘moment’ in relation to now,
‘heaven’ or ‘hell’ ?
silly illusions for silly magicians who are afraid to lay off a few million rabbits and burn the corresponding ‘black top hats’…
Nothing will occur until heaven changes hell’s diapers, or at least, learns to set what is in a crib out to its rightful pasture…
______________
l.t.y.a.
<deleted at the author’s request
Graduates ~
Get off your lazy azz and go to the churches yourself and stop making more ‘positive suggestions’ than your own days of inaction equal in number…
Having lived in the O.H. area for the last nine years or so, I supposed I can say a few things on the subject of the FoF’s relationship to those in the surrounding communities. I’ve tried doing business in the area (unsuccessfully), and have had numerous contact with locals.
The prevailing attitude is “live and let live.” You leave us alone and we’ll do the same for you. Many think that Robert is a sex offender or child molester. They see rich people taking advantage of cheap foreign labor. They grumble about the FoF’s habit of snubbing local laws, as when surreptitiously constructing the Theatron.
But as long as ‘FoF people’ and ‘Bob’ don’t directly encroach upon their turf, or threaten their families or children, there’s not much to be done, especially given the fact that the FoF has helped over the years to drive up property prices in the area, and to drive out pockets of drug-fueled poverty.
The more liberal-minded (and there are a few of them!) appreciate indirect benefits to the community, such as the Lewis Carroll School, which opens its doors to all.
A few students have found it very rewarding to open up to the communities that surround Isis, and have discovered interesting and rewarding contacts and friendships. Yes, Dorothy, there IS a world out there!
From the perspective of a hypothetical, local, non-FoF property owner, I might just enjoy envisioning the day when the FoF just quietly disappears, leaving its alchemical imprint more or less intact, with some nice and friendly people in the area, with property prices intact, with a nice selection of organic products at the Oregon House store, and with less speeding up and down the country roads.
I personally do not think it a right triad to inflame the locals against the Fellowship as a way to hasten its demise. Really bad karma, IMHO. I’m for a quiet implosion — gone with a whisper, not a bang. Then, just the sound of crickets, and maybe a few rabbits running around with a coyote or two in chase.
Thank you my2bits for your realistic assessment.
Thanks my bits for your input…
The train is going and I do think that time will do the job for the many changes the fellowship of friends is going through and it is not yet finished.
P. L. is quite an interesting story and that train is going…I will keep you informed over time.
Love to you.
Dear Graduate…
I am not the “nut” that sends you an email everyday…
( a walut or an almond? mhhhh)
I try to ignore yours most of the time…
Enjoy and love yourself.
Regarding property values, they aren’t what they used to be in Dobbins / OH, are they?
People all across Yuba County are also much less naive now about what is going on in the FOF compound, and the scale and nature of the crime.
To me the question is not whether to inflame the locals. After all, with all the recent FOF defections there may be as many ex-members now in the OH community than never-members.
I think anyone needs to do whatever it is that brings them closure or absolves their conscience. When people act from conscience, the karmic repercussions are not likely to be negative even if the superficial results backfire. For myself, if someone organized a picket line at the gatehouse or the OH store I would probably show up, though I might not be able or willing to organize it.
Above all I believe it is important not to sink to the level of cynicism we can now clearly see in the history and ongoing actions of the FOF and Robert Burton. Too much intentional insincerity (out here in life we call this “lying”), which sometimes includes the silence of fear or complacency.
Joseph G
unoanimo @ 243
Graduates ~
Get off your lazy azz and go to the churches yourself and stop making more ‘positive suggestions’ than your own days of inaction equal in number…
*********
Friend, I’ve been publicly speaking out against Burton and his false school since about 1995, saying many of the things that are now being said on this blog. Where were you?
To Joseph, your post #248:
“I think anyone needs to do whatever it is that brings them closure or absolves their conscience. When people act from conscience, the karmic repercussions are not likely to be negative even if the superficial results backfire.”
Dear Joseph,
I have admired and appreciated your posts on this blog, and send you my thanks. However, I think you are treading on thin ice with this statement of yours. Basically, you are saying that revenge is karma-free. I don’t think so. It is the act itself, and the motive behind it, that affect karma — not the result. Conscience is a tricky matter…
Still, I do appreciate your position. The idea of pickets at the gatehouse or the O.H. store fascinates me, but I basically think it’s just pissing into the wind.
Hello again, Joseph.
As to property values, everyone in the area knows that there are dozens and dozens of homes for sale and no buyers. Still, folks in the area have hopes that this situation will turn around, in a year or two. It’s not just a local phenomenon, it’s regional and national. Everyone is afraid. But it is these ‘imagined’ values that provide a “cushion of imagination” for people’s instinctive centers, and it works to keep things ‘civil.’ If this cushion disappears, there will be disruption, of course.
About Karma…
Yesterday i read Katie Byron who said…why do you not stop your inner war, your violence to your self, your own raping by stop thinking violent thougts….
So in, so out
Things are already happening in OH without us doing too much actvity..
The wind is already blowing in a certain direction
It is already happening, now in front of our eyes.
Water trickles softly and makes a big inpact on the long run in the stone….
There seem to be some people who are in FOF and are struggling with the decision to possibly leave, and there are the posts where former members desribe their anguish when they finally left. It is a difficult time. I knew I was leaving and had decided to leave in a manner other than just disappearing. I was living in SF at the time and going to the weekly meetings that were led by Stella and another student whose name I no longer remember. They would take personal questions and problems during the intermission of the meeting and I waited in line to speak with them. I remember telling them that I was leaving the school, and the male went on and on about the mistake I was making and how my possible evolution was now reduced to almost nothing. He pleaded with me to reconsider my decision, telling me how much the financial penalty for re-instatement was at that time, but that it might change and could become impossible for me to re-join. Stella had not said a word. Finally she interrupted her co-leader and told him that she was pretty sure I had not come here to be talked out of leaving, but to say good-bye. I nodded to her and she took my hand and wished me the best of luck on my journey. The admiration I already had for her grew considerably in that moment.
It was a difficult time. For five years I had immersed myself in the school and essentially had no friends outside of it. I felt very alone for quite some time, and had dreams of the school nightly for many, many months. In my mind there was the thought of at least the possibility that perhaps I had made a very large mistake. I had trusted something deeper than my thinking processes about leaving, and I had to return again and again to that part of myself. There is no ‘only game in town’, and any group or church that tries to sell you that idea is suffering from a delusion. Everything you need is already within you. We are a part of the Mind of God, and we have never been anywhere else. Our problem seems to be that we have imagined that we are something separate from that.
244 my2bits/249 Joseph
Thanks for the excellent posts.
On the topic of “shall I be active in relation to accelerating the demise of the FoF, or shall I sit back and watch it happen, or a bit of both?”, I’m a bit confused by the introduction of the concept of “karmic repercussions”. Doesn’t a phrase like this remove the issue from this moment/reality? It’s usually taken to mean something like: if I do a misdeed in this life I will suffer for it in a later life. Probably a fantasy, right?
Or do you mean you might regret your actions later on in this life?
In any case, it might be more worthwhile to look at what one personally feels in this moment about the question, and not be too concerned about an imaginary future. It’s fine either way, as far as I can see.
best regards, Charles
Hi my2bits,
Sorry to have yet again given the impression that revenge is my own motive or would be specifically admirable to me in any way. Sometime back I just wanted to make the point that the FOF preaches a culture of inaction based on scrupulously labeling one’s own motivation as suspect and inherently flawed (because the i’s are not real, and anyway all the worse for you if you’re right). It has now become my view that taking action for plenty of the right reasons is better than total non-responsiveness to a clear evil in order to avoid leaking out some inadvertant negativity along the way.
I agree that conscience is a tricky matter, which is the reason I have decided never to trust mine in the hands of any third party from now on, as I did for several decades in the FOF. There is no collective conscience; it is a contradiction of terms. We each must make our own decisions.
About picketing, it’s just so deliciously anti-Robert, anti-Linda, anti-gold-alchemy, anti-bullshit…yet 100% all American! The FOF was born out of sixties San Francisco. It could be fun to bring some of that old sixties irreverance back to its very doorstep. Pissing in the wind? Probably. But at least a demonstration of some sort would create tangible, highly visible action outside this blog or the arcane legal and governmental circles, which all take enormous time and resources without any guarantee of success. Who knows what (or how many) such an action might attract, even if only as a symbolic gesture?
Certainly not a burning issue for me BTW. Just a fun idea.
Hope you are well.
Joseph G
For greatest impact the picketing at the FOF Gatehouse should be simultaneous with picketing at the Post Office and the Oregon House Store.
Hi Charles,
My own view of karma is less about bad or good things that may happen later on, including regrets, and more about an alignment of action with my spiritual aspirations in the here and now. Repercussions will come one way or the other, but if this truer alignment is in place I am more likely to be moving in the right direction, from a spiritual perspective rather than as a movement through time. I have always thought of karma as something in the present, like the ocean old fish swims in.
Not something I am accustomed to try to put into words. Sorry if it came across sounding like psycho-babble.
Love to you both,
Joseph G
254 Joseph G
About picketing, it’s just so deliciously anti-Robert, anti-Linda, anti-gold-alchemy, anti-bullshit…yet 100% all American!
The FOF was born out of sixties San Francisco. It could be fun to bring some of that old sixties irreverance back to its very doorstep.
… a demonstration of some sort would create tangible, highly visible action… Who knows what (or how many) such an action might attract, even if only as a symbolic gesture?
Yes, yes, yes.
256 Joseph.
Understood!
x Chas
Re: Joseph’s post #254:
Thanks for the explanation and elaboration, Joseph. I think that I took your statement about “bringing closure” and “absolving one’s conscience” in a broader sense that you meant it, and also added confusion to the discussion by introducing the concept of ‘karma.’
Yes, I too am fascinated by a simultaneous picketing of the gatehouse, the O.H. store, and post office. It does have the distinct, invigorating feel of 60’s irreverence!
See ya.
Once the personal wounds start healing it is not easy to want to have anything else to do with the Fellowship but to walk easily along and let it be. I intentionally wish to stand against the Is within me that would rather choose that very easy path and hence am very much with Joseph on the issue of taking responsibility by acting against an institution I know is hurting people. The negative Karma for me, would be much more towards what is willing to relax about it. The feeling of “I couldn´t care less what happens to the many that think The Fellowship is worth their lives” is surfacing very strongly and if it weren´t for the fact that I have very clearly seen how impossible it is to realize that there are other possibilities in life than being abused in the Fellowship, while one is inside, I would be happy to let that feeling of not caring, take all its force. I do think that too many people inside will allow the Fellowship to continue using and abusing them if they are not helped to let go of it for at least a couple of months or years.
Who are the people in the Fellowship that are in danger that could be helped if the Fellowship is seriously closed or questioned by the law?
All the young people. A whole generation of young people.
All the potential students who could be ripped off for one, two, three months or years before they start having serious doubts or have the luck to come across the blog. Particularly new students in centers and particularly vulnerable those in the third world who don´t even access the internet.
Older students who have doubts and fear of loosing the unnecessary suffering that they´ve become so accostumed to (used to?).
Those students who have crystallized in the Fellowship are the ones that need most help but that will probably be the least likely to take it. These are, fortunately, a minority.
In considering legal action it is worth considering that only 25% of the people inside the Fellowship will be seriously hurt by its closure. These 25% will suffer a great deal from having deceived themselves so badly but who can stand and say that it is better to let people continue being deceived for the rest of their lives than helping them not only to stop being deceived but to stop hurting others with their deceiving?
If these 25% of students still go and open another Fellowship after the Fellowship is stopped no one can avoid that but those of us who feel responsible for what is happening inside will have done our best to stop at least this phase of the Fellowship. The 25% of students that will be most harmed are indeed older people who will probably not have enough strength to start again.
These people could hopefully still find enough protection from what is left from a huge law suit on the Fellowship or a certain amount of money could be forseen within such a lawsuit for these people under certain conditions.
I do not think the aim is to harm anyone. On the contrary, it is to stop the harm.
Those who have done the most harm in the Fellowship are themselves the most harmed. The perpetrators are the worst victims of their own invention.
What harms would be really stopped or controlled?
The use and abuse of young men.
The use and abuse of people from all over the world who are indoctrinated to believe that if they pay to make their own effort to do first line they will develop consciousness and after thirty years of not developing any are told that they did not make enough efforts and are not in the School or in this life to change anything but themselves.
The use and abuse of people on salary who work for years in
jobs that finally don´t even give them the minimal protection current in the United States and find themselves after thirty years of working for the Fellowship without a job or having to
beg Robert for a different arrangement who continues to delight in their dependence to him.
These dependance to Robert and the Fellowship is what many of the 25% of the Fellowship are so afraid of letting go of because it directly affects their instinctive needs. Robert knows that he continues to count on these students submission because they are too vulnerable instinctively to let go of the Fellowship. These situation is as denagrating and inconsiderate as any in a dictatorship. It is far from a conscious school or anything even just simply decent.
To anyone who doubts the reasons for my acting in this direction thinking I am doing it out of some kind of revenge against Girard or anybody else, all I can say is that I love Girard and feel that although I much suffered while being with him he did not intentionally harm me. He harmed me terribly because he is much damaged himself. This is why I consider him and all the other inner circle students in similar conditions, seriously dangerous people who will continue to harm others if they are not stopped. They have learnt to buffer student´s suffering to keep feeding Robert´s needs.
It is true that I feel more compassion for Girard than for any body else in the Fellowship of Friends. I am not trying to stop the Fellowship with even the slightest hope that our marriage will continue. Our marriage is over, and I am very grateful to the blog for showing up in time enough for me to grab on to it and let go of both Girard and the Fellowship in whose association I was much suffering.
In fact I do not think anyone in the Fellowship is INTENTIONALLY doing anyone else any harm. It is precisely this fact, that no one is realizing the harm that they are doing to others what makes the Fellowship a very dangerous place to be connected with.
To be even more precise, some of the harms to the individual students that could be avoided if the Fellowship is stopped are:
Loss of personal integrity:
Feeling unworthy in a community that has no room for the individual´s expression.
Having to allow the prostitution of young men to be able to belong to the Fellowship.
Having to pay a sum of money as the only expression of one´s value to belong to the Fellowship.
If you are a female, having to accept a subordinate position to men.
If you are a male, having to assume a superior position towards women (both are equally damaging even if false personality enjoys it for too long).
Loss of Money
It is an irony to have to pay so much money to loose so much of one’s self while being convinced that one is recovering or remembering one’s self.
The effects of so much loss of integrity or self respect are not easy to recover from but hopefully it will take us all years and not lifetimes to recover.
The effects of loosing respect for other’s integrity are so damaging that they develop into the cruelty of allowing people
to be abused without noticicing their suffering. These is what is happening in theFellowship of Friends. This is what I seriously consider worth working against.
Thank you for reading and sharing.
The pages concerning the handling of monies already presented on the blog are very revealing. Thank you for that effort.
255
“For greatest impact the picketing at the Fellowship of Friends Gatehouse should be simultaneous with picketing at the Post Office and the Oregon House Store.”
______________________________
‘You Know’ this is just the sort of stuff that Abe G. and Robert B. loves to hear, picketing the gatehouse, the post office and the oregon house grocery, LOL;
You guys, that’s been done before and the ‘real areas’ go untouched, think outside the box;
If ‘we’ want results, picket the Sacramento Court House, the Yuba County Health Department, the Yuba County Court House, the Sacramento Department of Human Affairs, etc. Then hit Oregon House with what’s left over; picketing Oregon House just crystallizes the idea that “It’s their problem” even more, if anything it separates Oregon House from the rest of the world and makes the lungs of the body smaller and more hyper, whose liable to have a heart attack licking a lollipop.
:.)
261 unoanimo
“If ‘we’ want results, picket the Sacramento Court House, the Yuba County Health Department, the Yuba County Court House, the Sacramento Department of Human Affairs, etc.”
So, unoanimo, will you be organizing, participating, leading?
Reading this last posts reminds me of a popular phrase ‘what you resist persists’.
I am not a fan of the resistance. It’s not ever proven to be that successful.
I am a fan of emotional support. And I will always be there for anyone interested.
As some of you are aware I grew up here, my parents have live here for 43 years in Dobbins. Me being 53 I joined FOF a couple of years ago for around six or seven months. I had to quite for money reasons and my husbands health.
When I joined I was FULLY AWARE of FOF history it made no difference nor was it the cause of me quiting.
I believe in “being present”. Yea there is a chapter in one book I totally disagree with that I discuss a little here on the blogg months ago.
I’m actually looking into the chance of returning to FOF and I will explain why.
Because I was a local first then a pass member of FOF my husband and I get verbally harass just for sitting on our front porch. If we mowed our lawn its the F-word the fingers fly up in the air by neighbors in the trailer court beside us. Why because I choose to join FOF a few years ago. They are upset cause I’m an ex cult member in their eyes.
I will educate you how first hand Yuba County Sheriff Department handles the problems most of the time they do not response or they take HOURS to response. The Yuba County Sheriff Department SUPPORTS their harrassment of myself and my husband. The same goup of people who are doing the harrassing form the group “Neighborhood watch/Block Watch in Dobbins/Oregon House. Oh yeah did I forget to tell you both my husband are disable.
The last time we call for a Officer a person came up to our fence with a object in his hand screaming at us, guess what when the Officer finally arrived do you know what he said. Oh he’s a friend of mine! We demanded charges on this guy,we were told NO REPORT would even be written.
A few months ago I was a witness in a assult with a deadly weapon to make long story short. Because I testifed against guy the Judge ordered him to stay 300 yards ago from me in a Criminal Protective Order. The guy didn’t stay away from me. In fact I videoed him driving in front of our house, on the videoed you can hear my husband’s voice staying that’s him. Yuba County Sheriff Department DOES NOTTHING, why because he is a friend of someone next door to us.
In short the locals know about the history of FOF. In short the Sheriff Department only protects the ones who breaks the law.
Do I miss FOF yes I do, I miss being around people who don’t JUDGE YOU.
I miss being around people who really showed how deeply they care about their work in the school.
Mary ~
You wrote ~
“Do I miss Fellowship of Friends, yes I do, I miss being around people who don’t JUDGE YOU. I miss being around people who really showed how deeply they care about their work in the school.”
_______________________________________________
Hello Mary,
Yes, this “care about their work” many of us may miss, yet, even ex-students ‘care about their work’ too, has ’self-remembering’ changed since you left the Fellowship of Friends?
There are hundreds upon hundreds that feel the same way as you do, yet, on a deeper level Mary, this is a trap and IMO, it’s a magnetic center trap at that;
For me to you, one question would be ~
How many times does one need to lie to oneself in order to tell another the truth?
_________________
So much along the path is a sort of monkish self-hood, it’s even a bit ’soft-selfish’ in a way, we draw lines in the sand and as long as the demon’s shadow does not cross that line, what ever happens ‘on the other side’ is not one’s ‘esoteric business’ because of course ‘one is above human matters, moon-ethics, moon-humanities, moon-food-values; yet, perhaps there’s another level beyond the reciprocal ‘Fellowship of Friends Wheel of Life’, perhaps complete strangers ‘doors’ hinge on the house of your soul (?) Perhaps every coerced rape victim of Robert Burton, i.e., the nucleus receiver of your ‘teaching payments’ is a celestial child of yours (?)
Another way of looking at teaching payments is, not what you can get from having made the payment, i.e., what it seems only occurs ‘behind the gate-house’, rather, what do you teach by writing that check, what do you teach out into the space of both incarnated souls and un-incarnated souls…
You both are more than a disabled couple living in Dobbins, you are children of your own present-womb, will you go back to the Fellowship of Friends so to allow Robert Burton to abort your spirit-conscience-fetuses at will, subliminally, raping them before their tossed into the garbage heap behind the food storage coolers?
Look towards the Greater Fellowship site, perhaps there’s someone there who will assist you in relocating, away from Oregon House, yet, perhaps a certain something is not done with showing you both some-thing, if not, then, I can only say that, the deeper the same mistake (perhaps) the greater the wings; yet, few are learning that way under the rapist reign of Robert Burton’s fecal stained sails.
__________________________________________
l.t.y.a.
Mary, I also recommend you check out the Greater Fellowship. There are currently about 570 members and many of them are your neighbors. If you need an invitation, just ask.
P.S.
Mary,
Just in case there is a thing as ‘more time’ (and BTW we know not who or what affords us such), how will you ’spend’ yours, supporting Robert Burton’s coercive-religious-terrorism?
California:
Your gold alchemy lunatic organic essence in a breeding ground for the King of Clubs types with good lawyers; you are the narcissus (Echo) of the east coast Narcissus himself, Washington D.C.
No fate but what we make.
Anybody notice that there has been no moderation going on for this blog for more than a week?
That means no new voices are being heard and no non-conforming posts can appear. This could lead to a duller discussion, don’t you think? (Attrit the blog out-of-existence, maybe.)
Perhaps the Sheik, who we are certainly highly indebted to for service beyond the call of duty,
has gone MIA (missing in action)? Or, is that CIA (conscience in action)?
Sheik, where are you? Has the Inner Confusion got you confused? Are you in some torture chamber of the enemy within? Speak to us, please! Or, maybe we just need to rub this lamp three times in the right (write) manner? (Aye, Alladin? (a lad in)) Are you prisoner? Has a hit man offed you for creating this blog? Maybe working for the authorities?
On the other hand maybe the Sheik is on a much needed vacation. Even the cyborg, played by Arnold S. in
Terminator 2 has the line, ‘I need a vacation.’ (Say that in your mind with an Arnold type accent.)
Or, see it spoke here at 0:12:
Terminator 2 ending scene 07:00
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DEMICfWLOig&mode=related&search=
No fate but what we make.
Hi Mary,
yes I know what you mean, to be engrossed in the blog and the GF just seems to be a mesh of judgement and destructiveness, pretty much the opposite of what we aspire to be in the fof.
I also knew the history of the fof from my early years, the odd behaviour and nasty stories, but my first hand experience carries more weight, and it is all constructive.
Unfortunately aging people invariably become swallowed up by judgments and negativity, so essence becomes submerged, and other people cannot be seen except through the dark filters of the ‘mind’, that paints other people black if they’re on the ‘other side’!
I think being in the fof for many people (KA 88?) can be rightly dismissed as a waste of time and a bad experience, because it was all in false personality, about ‘looking good’, conforming, ‘being liked’ or being a ‘nice person’, rather than about deep inner change, becoming in essence, totally true to yourself and your own conscience.
Unfortunately the subjective morality / feminine dominance of the masses tends to replace real conscience.
No fate but what we make.
Or, see it at 3:12 of:
the end sequence in terminator 2 07:15
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Fhh0QJYjYzM&mode=related&search=
Other important lines excerpted from this sequence:
Sarah: It’s finally over.
Terminator: No…
There is one more chip.
[Terminator points to his third eye.]
Terminator: And it must be destroyed also.
Terminator: Here, I cannot self terminate. You must lower me into the steel.
…
Terminator: It has to end here.
…
Terminator: I know now why you cry. But it is something I can never do.
No fate but what we make.
No fate but what we make.
Terminator 2 Alternate Ending 01:48
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Cig1×3ZOxAU&mode=related&search=
From alternate ending:
Sarah’s final soliloquy:
August 29th 1997 came and went. Nothing much happened. Michael Jackson turned forty. There was no Judgment Day. People went to work as they always do, laughed, complained, watched TV, made love.
I wanted to run through the street yelling… to grab them all and say ‘Every day form this day on is a gift. Use it well!’ Instead I got drunk.
That was thirty years ago. But the dark future which never came still exists for me, and it
always will, like the traces of a dream (lingering in the morning light. And the war against the
machines goes on. Or, to be more precise, the war against those who build the wrong machines.)*
John fights the war differently than it was foretold. Here, on the battlefield of the Senate, the weapons are common sense… and hope.
The luxury of hope was given to me by the Terminator. Because if a machine can learn
the value of human life… maybe we can too.
* In original alternate script.
No fate but what we make.
Oh, my god, do we need the Terminator?
Bares Reposting @ 268
******
Those that want their moderated posts available near immediately post them to:
http://fofgraduates.wordpress.com/2007/06/08/graduates-of-the-fellowship-of-friends/
if for some reason it auto-moderates email:
complete_attention (at) yahoo (dot) com
and I will figure out how to release it.
Vinnie the Fish @ 269
Hi Mary,
yes I know what you mean, to be engrossed in the blog and the GF just seems to be a mesh of judgement and destructiveness, pretty much the opposite of what we aspire to be in the fof.
I also knew the history of the fof from my early years, the odd behaviour and nasty stories, but my first hand experience carries more weight, and it is all constructive.
Unfortunately aging people invariably become swallowed up by judgments and negativity, so essence becomes submerged, and other people cannot be seen except through the dark filters of the ‘mind’, that paints other people black if they’re on the ‘other side’!
I think being in the fof for many people (KA 88?) can be rightly dismissed as a waste of time and a bad experience, because it was all in false personality, about ‘looking good’, conforming, ‘being liked’ or being a ‘nice person’, rather than about deep inner change, becoming in essence, totally true to yourself and your own conscience.
Unfortunately the subjective morality / feminine dominance of the masses tends to replace real conscience.
******
This is what Vinnie the Fruit is buffering:
Inner circle facts Says:
March 1st, 2007 at 8:25 am
Are you ready for some brutal facts?
Who would like to know how its really happening in his bad room? OK folks,fasten your sit belts,the Kansas going Bye Bye…
Did you know that usual orgies are formed from 4 to 6 student?.Usually two of them are SIMULTANEOUSLY entering Burton’s anus.Third person is laying on his back while Mr.Burton is providing him an oral sex while two from both sides are subject to the masturbation by MR.Burton with his two hands.
Some time there is one more student who’s role is to hold Burton’s testicles in his mouth during the whole time.Prior to all, by Burton’s request Viagra pills are shared and swallowed between all members of the orgy which are constantly provided by Mr.G.
Some time you can hear Burton’s words during the sexual activities “How incredible! We are getting closer,aren’t we?”
Some of them are asked to suck his nipples and his toes.All sperm gets swallowed by Mr.Burton at the end of the act.But that is not all yet.
There are two students who had the most terrifying and most humiliating role to play (in my opinion).They have to enter with their hands by their elbows into the Burton’s anus.(Looking for Consciousness perhaps)..both students are Russians.One of them had left the school and the other has been “shipped” back to Russia for disobedience.
And now get this:
Beside those depraved scenes there is another one which going to shake you all:
There is another act that Burton is preforming with a specific student of his own “inner circle”.This act of Humiliation is performed in his bath room while Burton is laying down and 3 students are urinating right on him!
And on the next morning,like nothing happened Mr.Burton is leading the meeting on Love?
No fate but what we make.
Here’s why Terminator needed a vacation:
T-1000 vs. Terminator 9:19
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZN6UbZ8Aviw&mode=related&search=
See the ‘wordpress’ put to the Terminator in this sequence.
This is what came just before the earlier clips from the film.
No fate but what we make.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nrqSCn0sBPw
No fate but what we make.
And, finally:
Then there is this montage:
Terminator 2 – Beginning of the end 03:31
Los Angeles 2029A.D.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AMiC_9JVBwg&mode=related&search=
Lyrics:
The irritation we’re pretending not to show
Has replaced the motivation
That I had not long ago
I know that I,
I don’t ever want to be the one to make you forget it
I don’t ever want to be the one to make you resent it
I don’t ever want to be the one to make you repress it
I don’t ever wanna be, never wanna be, NEVER WANNA BE!
It’s the beginning of the end
And I don’t know where we lost control
It’s the beginning of the end
And I know that I am all alone
Interrogation has replaced the trust we had
Your misguided accusations
helping me to turn my back
I know that I,
I don’t ever want to be the one to make you divide it
I don’t ever want to be the one to make you deny it
I don’t ever want to be the one to make you deprive it
I don’t ever wanna be, never wanna be, NEVER WANNA BE!
It’s the beginning of the end
And I don’t know where we lost control
It’s the beginning of the end
And I know that I am all alone
I thought that we would find our way
I thought our life would be okay
I thought that you believed in me
but now it seems so far away
The life we knew before is gone
There is no compromising
The life you save will be your own
To find your inner senses
To find your inner senses
To find your innocences
It’s the beginning of the end
And I don’t know where we lost control
It’s the beginning of the end
And I know that I am all alone
It’s the beginning of the end
And I don’t know where we lost our soul
It’s the beginning of the end
And I know that I am all alone
———-
No fate but what we make.
Most of you never met me but the members that knew me well, did know because I knew the history about FOF that I never made any contact with the Teacher.
Another words I went to the keys meetings and new students meetings and I watch some of the videos of the Sunday meetings that were taught by others. I only watch one that the Teacher taught, that did nothing for me, because of the love this and love that! I’m sure some are aware of what I’m saying.
Did some students open up to me, on their thoughts and dealings with the Teacher sure but they were able to understand and respect my thoughts too. Nobody never forced me to meet the Teacher, nor did I ever say anything bad of him to another member.
I join FOF because of my strong beliefs and the devotion of the students not of the Teacher.
Am I aware of the many students that were harm and being harm still, yes. My hearts and prays are with them.
In my beliefs the school and the students were my Magnetic Center and still are.
“I join Fellowship of Friends” because of my strong beliefs and the devotion of the students not of the Teacher.”
_______________________________________277
That reminds me ~
There’s this scene in ‘Grey’s Anatomy’ where a train has derailed, many severed limbs are laying about, they get mixed up, someone picks up a leg that’s ‘off’ from the knee down and puts it with a guy who has his missing, they get to the hospital and lo and behold, in the operating room they go to ‘put it on’ and the toe nails have ‘nail-color-polish’ on them… hummmmm.
So, there’s another leg found downstairs in one of the ambulance trucks, they bring it up and it’s a perfect match, yet, lo and behold, it’s a left, they need a right…
Eventually an ambulance driver finds the ‘right leg’ at the wreck site, brings it to the hospital just in time and everyone lives happily ever after…
Well, almost everyone; no body ever mentioned what happened to those ‘other legs’. (?)
Mary,
Good luck with that theory of yours, it fits right in with Cult Philosophy 101.
Vinnie,
I’ve bought you a life time supply subscription of Depends, after that post above, you’ll need them sooner rather than later; I sense your bladder is about to fuse with your higher centers, good luck with that Teacher of yours, it fits right in…
:.)
Graduates, yeah I know it’s disgusting, but I’m talking about my experience, which thankfully doesn’t include such delights as your now famous epistle. Any homosexual acts are just gross in my view, but that must be subjective since being gay is so in season, eh? Thinking outside the sphincter.. if they were girls.. well it could be every man’s fantasy.. but I won’t go there, Elena will be horrified!
Who wrote that charming excerpt by the way, has it been validated?
Does anyone know the bit out of All and E where Gurdjieff said homos have no possibility of evolving and will believe anything and everything? That bit has crossed my mind many times since joining I must say.
It is important to think clearly though – around the world lots of people hate Americans because of their latest war, but it is just formatory thinking.
The usefulness of the school for an individual is one thing. The good and bad influences of the leader is quite another. One student mentioned Robert ’saved his life’. I don’t know what he meant, but others here among the thousands he has influenced might say the opposite.
The easy lazy approach is to do what others expect of you, and that way deny your own experience, common sense and conscience. That’s what got some of us into trouble in the first place. That’s not my way.
Elena:
701:
Unoanimo, we women love to love and serve men and good for those who don’t, most of you don’t come even close to deserving it.
Elena:
260:
If you are a female, having to accept a subordinate position to men.
If you are a male, having to assume a superior position towards women (both are equally damaging even if false personality enjoys it for too long).
——————–
I think you were right the first time, the male is naturally the dominant gender, and females are undeniably attracted to dominant males. Hence the groupie behaviour of many young (and older) ladies in the FOF, swooning over certain males, perhaps trying to get close to the dominant male?
Vinnie, I know I said that I almost missed your voice, but that was when you were gone. I know you think you are a total dude-cool stud and that you get to define the issues, but sorry, dude-cool. You come off as very paltry and impoverished. Life is rich and you are missing it.
missing it..? hmm you couldn’t be more wrong there honey babe ;-))
(you probably mean ‘cool dude’? adverb precedes noun..)
282 Vinnie the Fish
“missing it..? hmm you couldn’t be more wrong there honey babe ;-))
(you probably mean ‘cool dude’? adverb precedes noun..)”
You really are a greasy mf.
Vinnie the Fish wrote:
“Unfortunately aging people invariably become swallowed up by judgments and negativity, so essence becomes submerged, and other people cannot be seen except through the dark filters of the ‘mind’, that paints other people black if they’re on the ‘other side’!
I think being in the fof for many people (KA 88?) can be rightly dismissed as a waste of time and a bad experience, because it was all in false personality, about ‘looking good’, conforming, ‘being liked’ or being a ‘nice person’, rather than about deep inner change, becoming in essence, totally true to yourself and your own conscience.
Unfortunately the subjective morality / feminine dominance of the masses tends to replace real conscience.”
Say….are you Penn Gillette? Because you’re making me laugh in the same way he makes me laugh. I’ll leave it to you to figure out if that’s a compliment.
I don’t think it matters where you are. The possibilities of experiencing the moment is there. I’m not in the Fellowship because I felt I was emotionally becoming affected in a negative way by Robert’s activity. I guess each person has to decide to go where it serves them best and try to keep their judgment out of it. It’s really not their business anyway.
Thinking of Laura,
Whaleridder,
Ton and all the others,
Thinking of myself and how to be my own best friend
Independency is like an aim for me now
all these years, channeled into dependency
still hurts.
A student yesterday said;
Robert Burton has robbed us of so many “gift” family time, friends
he robbs and uses it for hmself.
I felt the pain with her
deep in my heart and spirit
Went through my regrets…
Which one day I will write you…..
Many, many, many
Dear all friend yes time to wrap up unfinished business
To become more then now what you really are.
breath quietly and feel the sun on your skin
Let the tears go if they come….
Hug and hug yourself.
Unoamino:-
Roger, you do come over as being very sure that you are right about everything and everyone. After all, you were in the FOF for about 30 years, making teaching payments, supporting the center, buying property at Oregon House, vacating the Bay Area at predicton time, taking part in activities. You are keen to pick on named individuals. What is your story? Why did it take you so long to get wise? Why didn’t you listen to Graduates when he left, or to Ames and all when they left? My personal answer to those questions is that I didn’t have the knowledge about Robert’s life that I have now, and also that the initial promise of the Fellowship still held out for me at that time. What is yours?
280 Vinnie the Fish
You´re right on Vinnie, it was the dominant male what attracted me and continues to attract me, the man within.
Unfortunately Girard was broken, depressed, hitting himself, watching porno, repeting like a taperecorder the same old angles in every dinner and meeting and vulnerable as a child who had had to create a bunker to protect himself from a world whose generosities he was unable to recognise, a bully as a child and a spiritual bully as an adult. The guise of all understanding mother translating Robert’s hieroglyphs to people behaving like retarded idiots might very well still fool you and a lot of you but it makes me puke to realize that you’ll condemm him to hold on to his role until the end of his days so that the lot of you think you made something out of your lives following two totally psycopathic human beings.
Do not fool yourself with me Vinnie, I’ve seen Girard closer than you can ever dream and when I say I love him it is not the one you adepts love but the one you’ve never allowed to develop.
The other dominant male, Robert, well, it was good to dream with the conscious being but the reality of the weak queen surrounded by a bunch of young men managing the show is a show worth sitting and crying for unless one is a cynic like you who pays to keep the show going on even though the only role you’ve ever had in it is presenting yourself on this blog to make believe that you’re doing something worth your money. You people cripple Robert and Girard beyond anything they could have ever managed by themselves.
There is unfortunately no such a thing as a dominant male in the Fellowship. In fact, I am the most masculine force that has ever moved in the Fellowship of Friends and that is because I am a complete woman and more than a woman, a human being without the slightest shame of being one.
There’s an interesting Eric Clapton interview on Amazon, promoting his forthcoming autobiography. He says his life can be divided into three stages: first, his early years; second, his years of drug and alcohol abuse; third, the time after he gave up drugs and booze.
I realised I could apply this to my life too: the pre-FoF period (till age 30), the FoF period (till age 56), and the post-FoF period. The middle period is similar in both cases. Clapton was seeking for happiness through the excitement and stimulation of booze and dope; for me there was a craving for “higher states”, a very similar and equally pointless species of addiction.
The post addiction phase is great, but it takes quite a while for the deep layers of hypnotism and illusion created during the FoF years to fall away. Now, a year after leaving, doors are still opening – there are many amazing possibilities. I’m so happy I left when I did.
Good luck to all, Charles
Do not be idolatrous about or bound to any doctrine, theory, or ideology, even Buddhist ones. All systems of thought are guiding means; they are not absolute truth.
Do not think that the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow-minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice non-attachment from views in order to be open to receive others’ viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout our entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times.
Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education. However, through compassionate dialogue, help others renounce fanaticism and narrowness.
Do not avoid contact with suffering or close your eyes before suffering. Do not lose awareness of the existence of suffering in the life of the world. find ways to be with those who are suffering by all means, including personal contact and visits, images, sound. By such means, awaken yourself and others to the reality of suffering in the world.
Do not accumulate wealth while millions are hungry. Do not take as the aim of you life fame, profit, wealth, or sensual pleasure. Live simply and share time, energy, and material resources with those who are in need.
Do not maintain anger or hatred. As soon as anger and hatred arise, practice the meditation on compassion in order to deeply understand the persons who have caused anger and hatred. Learn to look at other beings with the eyes of compassion.
Do not lose yourself in dispersion and in your surroundings. Learn to practice breathing in order to regain composure of body and mind, to practice mindfulness, and to develop concentration and understanding.
Do not utter words that can create discord and cause the community to break. Make every effort to reconcile and resolve all conflicts, however small.
Do not say untruthful things for the sake of personal interest of to impress people. Do not utter words that cause diversion and hatred. Do not spread news that you do not know to be certain. Do not criticize or condemn things you are not sure of. Always speak truthfully and constructively. Have the courage to speak out about situations of injustice, even when doing so may threaten your own safety.
Do not use the Buddhist community for personal gain or profit, or transform your community into a political party. A religious community should, however, take a clear stand against oppression and injustice, and should strive to change the situation without engaging in partisan conflicts.
Do not live with a vocation that is harmful to humans and nature. Do not invest in companies that deprive others of their chance to life. Select a vocation which helps realize your ideal compassion.
Do not kill. Do not let others kill. Find whatever means possible to protect life and to prevent war.
Possess nothing that should belong to others. Respect the property of others but prevent others from enriching themselves from human suffering or the suffering of other beings.
Do not mistreat your body. Learn to handle it with respect. Do not look on your body as only and instrument. Preserve vital energies (sexual, breath, spirit) for the realization of the Way. Sexual expression should not happen without love and commitment. In sexual relationships be aware of future suffering that may be caused. To preserve the happiness of others, respect the rights and commitments of others. Be fully aware of the responsibility of bringing new lives into the world. Meditate on the world into which you are bringing new beings.
Do not believe that I feel that I follow each and every of these precepts perfectly. I know I fail in many ways. None of us can fully fulfill any of these. However, I must work toward a goal. These are my goal. No words can replace practice, only practice can make the words.
“The finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.”
Draco ~
Roger?
Do you mean ‘Roger Rabbit’ ?
Yet, I know Roger K., if that is who you are speaking to; so, if you’re looking for me to answer for ‘Roger’, I cannot, yet, who knows, if I really try I guess I can be anybody who isn’t someone.
:.)
Hello Mary B.,
Reading your posts I am so much reminded of our tendencies to have such subjective point of views.
But there are also layers of subjectivity closer or further away from a lie. Unfortunately the FOF is a LIE.
Maybe you just dealt with the students whom in fact can put up a good act and show immense patience, at one point this was even called external consideration with very well suppressed irritation or dislike or whatever.
I think you found the fake facade or less harmful aspect of the fof in your interactions.
After all you did not meet the teacher and you are a woman.
Pretty darned safe and lucky not to go bankrupt.
Elena ~
You wrote ~
“I am the most masculine force that has ever moved in the Fellowship of Friends…”
____________________________
LOL… Personally I’d vote for the huge black Angus bull that’s out to pasture with his two twin girlfriends located to the left of the Fellowship of Friends Sodomy Cult entrance.
:.)
Elena ~
Did you not ever meet Hanna M., now there was an amazon to reckon with; Robert Burton ‘released’ her from the school because she wished to earn money and get employed as a nurse rather than staying in ‘98 waiting for an impossible geological disaster to occur to California…
Geez… Well, at least Robert Burton has no history of donating to ‘official sperm banks’ other than those with bowel movements; that’s a fortunate thing I suppose…
:.)
Elena you said:
“There is unfortunately no such a thing as a dominant male in the Fellowship. In fact, I am the most masculine force that has ever moved in the Fellowship of Friends and that is because I am a complete woman and more than a woman, a human being without the slightest shame of being one.”
=======================================
What you say makes me think of this question in general:
Are there any real males left in the fof? or if they appear to be what kind of males are these? castrated emotionally, psychologically, spiritually, artistically and physically?
Well,
‘vera.mente’,
the ‘fact’
that a spirit
(supposedly embracing the inhabitance of a female body)
is calling the ’shots’ for the males
ought to tell you something already
(?)
or is it not so obvious that the shear embarrassment of acknowledging the ‘fact’ as such is hidden by your ’soothing, sister-ly questioning’ ?
Unoanimo you said:
or is it not so obvious that the shear embarrassment of acknowledging the ‘fact’ as such is hidden by your ’soothing, sister-ly questioning’ ?
=====================================
What do you mean here in plain english?
Vera.mente ~
8 minutes to gather a sense of our connection and still a ? mark?
More time, since, after all, Time does seem to be the White Blood cells of God.
#294 vera.mente
“Are there any real males left in the fof?”
What about Vinnie? He seems like he would be quite a ‘catch’ for some lucky lady. He’s confident, sensitive and definitely thinks for himself. A good example is post 269. The depth of insight , the truth oozing down the screen into a lucid puddle of ‘just how it is’. Charm, originality a real go my own way man. I should think him every woman’s dream.
Kid Shelleen 284,
I usually take interest in your posts. This one was reprehensible. To laugh at such a brilliant ‘long thought’ critique of human nature indicating a long and brutal trek through the deserts and fountains of the soul lead me to re-evaluate what you have to offer to this blog.
Vinny, you’re a twit.
So, I finished the job yesterday, finally having an opportunity to sleep longer than 6 hours and with a whole day to myself. Starting a new one tomorrow but it shouldn’t be as stressful and time consuming.
Anyways, will get going on the moderation now, there are fewer posts (and fewer new names) than you would have expected.
16, 30, 52, 172, 186, 188, 205, 214, 215, 217, 237, 240, 243, 254, 267 and 305 are newly moderated.
Great sentence….woooh…..and seems so true.
Time does seem to be the White Blood cells of God.
#254 James McIemore said:
“There is nothing gained by trying to analyze darkness. Darkness will never lead to any light, darkness is the absence of light. Nothing sane can come from trying to understand insanity. Insanity, by its very nature, makes no sense.”
Thanks for this James and the rest of your insightful posts. I wish I had had this understanding years ago. I struggled for too long trying to make sense of the darkness and insanity. I even rejoined because of this burning question and the feeling that I could not let go without an explanation or way of understanding all of the contradictions. So many years wasted.
Eenymeenyminymo 306
Yes, you really could be anybody who isn’t someone. The credit points that you have accrued through your tireless devotion to this blog can jump accross the ledger and show you to be rather a sad fish. Having a blog ID gives you the means and the muscle to assert yourself as you never could in real life, so much is obvious. A significant amount of what you write is at best kooky, but more likely to be an indicator of someone with some personal problems and a vain glorious bent. Kind of reminds me of a current Country classic that the rednecks have blaring around OH right now.
Brad Paisley ‘Online’
I’m a Sci-fi fantatic
Mild asthmatic
Never been to 2nd base
But there’s a whole nother me
That you need to see
Go check out MySpace
Cause online I’m down in Hollywood
I’m 6′5 and I look damn good
I drive a Mazarati
I’m a black belt in Karate
And I love a good glass of wine
It turns girls on that I’m mysterious
I tell ‘em I don’t want nothing serious
Cause even on a slow day I can have a three way
Chat with two women at one time
I’m so much cooler online
So much cooler online
Here is the link if you want to see the video – worth learnign the lyrics so you can go the karaoke night at the Field and Stream.
Re: post 314
Baba Wrote:
“Kid Shelleen 284,
I usually take interest in your posts. This one was reprehensible. To laugh at such a brilliant ‘long thought’ critique of human nature indicating a long and brutal trek through the deserts and fountains of the soul lead me to re-evaluate what you have to offer to this blog.”
Finally! I’ve been trying to offend someone, anyone, for months now. My mission here is accomplished. This was tough work for a Venus-Mercury with a feature of non-existence.
Reprehensible and cause for re-evaluation! Suddenly, I feel like Bob Dylan. Thanks ;)
205 Lateral Drift
The Res Ipsa Loquitur link at the top right of this page might help you decide whether or not you are joining the right group. Reading this entire blog would be daunting, and some of the “highlights” have been moved to that page. It appears that they are all from one person. One person has collected and reposted there, but they originally came from many people who participate here.
My personal experience was that the FoF does not deliver what it claims to offer, and it has a very corrupt core. Please take advantage of this resource and be sure that you have a clear idea of what it is you are stumbling into.
314 Yesri baba
Vinny, you’re a twit.
298 Bruce
You really are a greasy mf.
Good to see the happy couple haven’t lost their brilliance. I must bow to your rapier wits, cutting straight to the core of the vital issues with incisive, demoralising clarity.
This blog used to be called ‘a school for intelligentsia’, but I suspect the Sheik noticed the inaccuracy of that epithet. Yes ‘free speech is a dirty business’ is much better.
Dumb as a brick with an extra chromosome as they say.
Yesri baba
#294 vera.mente
“Are there any real males left in the fof?”
What about Vinnie? He seems like he would be quite a ‘catch’ for some lucky lady.
—————-
Yesri babu may be right Vena – if you’d like to post some pics I could consider giving you a chance. I know what you mean, it must be hard to find a man with the wild and fearless resolve to unapologetically be himself, without imitation or pretence. ;-)
319 ~
“A significant amount of what you write is at best kooky…”
_____________________
‘Kooky’, now there’s a real man’s adjective!
The last time I heard that word was in the theme song at the beginning of the Adam’s Family shows, so long ago; they were one of my favorite daily shows, along with a dab of The Beverly Hillbillies and Batman and Robin; I suppose if you mix those together it would explain almost enough to be nearly not enough.
Thanks R.R.T., nothing like some Alpha Male cyber hugging to go along with my morning coffee.
#324 and if you want to go way, way back, Kooky was the star of a show called ‘Surfside Six’, which played on TV in black and white.
Vinnie (around #323):
You said: “I know what you mean, it must be hard to find a man with the wild and fearless resolve to unapologetically be himself, without imitation or pretence. ;-)”
I would certainly like to meet such a Man provided that his fearless nature is built on a bedrock of humility and not an illusory foundation of vanity and pride.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7UDSbNReCg
#324 And just because I’m in one of my weird moods today, here is the song to prove it.
327
Thanks W.U.L.S.W.U., now we have our morning theme song to play in the convoy of armored hummers as we video tape more of Robert Burton and The Fellowship of Friends moving valuables and other ‘personal & official’ assets out of the galleria and into that ’storage area’ where Robert Burton has his 1000+ suits hanging.
:.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMCRsH4Bm50
Whoops! That was Ed Byrnes (Kookie) in 77 Sunset Strip. Ed Byrnes not Surfside Six. Please see above.
Vinnie the shellfish 323
it must be hard to find a man with the wild and fearless resolve to unapologetically be himself, without imitation or pretence.
are you kidding? this blog is a breeding ground for such creatures!
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=TJN3PGqDRNg
Lateral Drift (205)
Jeez, I don’t know where to begin! It’s practically inconceivable to me that someone could read this blog and STILL want to join the FOF. Oh well, here goes…
You begin by stating “I am only interested in being present and I’ve found working with others with similar aims to be most beneficial.” Assuming that we all agree on what ‘being present’ means (which is doubtful), I would speculate that most here on the blog would say that being present, or being more conscious, self-aware, etc. are worthwhile objectives. Better than being ‘asleep’, ‘identified’ or whatever. And, yes, perhaps ‘working with others with similar aims’ could be beneficial.
But why choose the FOF? Do you think they’re the only group that is interested in ‘being present’? You must not have looked around very much. There are lots of groups and teachings that value this idea. And many of them have little or nothing to do with the Fourth Way. If you are truly ‘only interested in being present’, and you think ‘working with others with similar aims to be most beneficial’, surely you can find a group that is not led by a sexual predator who charges outrageous sums to finance his depravity.
You also write, “What appeals most to me about FOF is the idea of drawing from all the esoteric traditions to create a sort of super-non-denominational religion.” Although I don’t really share your goal of wanting to be a part of a ‘super-non-denominational religion’, I think I understand what you mean by this, and why you value it. I think it was Krishnamurti who said that the world’s major religious traditions were like the fingers on a hand – the deeper we go into each of them, the closer they are to each other. I think it is worthwhile to study the esoteric and mystical aspects of the different religions. But you wouldn’t necessarily need a group to do that. However, if you wanted to do it as part of a group I’m sure there are groups who are devoted to doing just that. Of course there are many that claim to be, but really aren’t. I’m afraid the FOF is in the latter category. It is a fraud and RB is a charlatan, Svengali, or ‘hasnamuss’, if you like.
You say, “I figured that we men numbers 1-6 may not be in a position to judge a man no. 7”. This type of reasoning is a huge mistake. Perhaps your desire to actually encounter and be taught by someone on the order of a ‘man number seven’ (if such a thing exists) has caused you to suspend your judgment. You must not do this. Remember, YOU are your own best teacher. Don’t suspend your critical faculties for anyone, under any circumstances. A real teacher would try to show you this and encourage critical enquiry rather than discourage it as RB does.
You also write, ‘I revel in creating social dissonance, so they won’t get to me by applying that kind of pressure. I don’t give a damn about being thrown out and shunned – unless I’m losing something of real value that I cannot get anywhere else.” If you truly ‘revel in creating social dissonance’, you probably won’t last long in the FOF. But be very careful, because the FOF can be very seductive. Many former members probably joined with a similar mindset to yours and only came to their senses years later, feeling stunned, degraded, and ripped-off.
As to your suggestion that those of us here on the blog ‘go with you’ in your journey into the FOF and ‘counsel you along the way’, I actually kind of like this idea. If you MUST join, by all means, keep in touch with those of us ex-members here on the blog and tell us of your experiences and perhaps we can indeed ‘counsel’ you. Maybe it could be kind of like that guy (was it Jason?) who enters the labyrinth of the Minotaur and has the thread to help him find his way back?
Finally, you write ‘Are there other 4th Way groups out there that aren’t as cult-like as the FOF?’ The short answer is yes. But I would advise you to be extremely cautious. The world is full of spiritual conmen and rip-off artists. I know there are some here on the blog that repudiate anything having to do with the Fourth Way. In a way, I don’t blame them, given what they experienced in the FOF and how they must tend to associate that with the Fourth Way teachings. For myself, that wasn’t the case and I still find the Work ideas and practices useful, though not as taught in the FOF. I have attended meetings of the Gurdjieff Foundation for the past five years or so and I’ve found it to be worthwhile. However, I certainly don’t think it is the ‘only way’.
One of the things I think I learned from being in the FOF is not to be so certain about my beliefs and practices. Doubt is good (and normal). Live the question, yes, but keep asking the questions – the hard questions. I hope you’ll do that, Lateral Drift, if you decide to go forward with this and actually join the FOF. If you really do ask the hard questions I am sure that you will find yourself shunned, and you will eventually be ‘released’ as they say.
But I really hope you will not join, and will, instead, come to your senses and decide not to have anything to do with this organization that has done so much harm to so many.
Sheik, A question.
Would it be possible, easy, for you to repost the newly moderated posts when you do post them with just the number in which they would have been so that we could read them all after and in sequence without having to go back and look for each? If it’s possible and not too complicated for you it seems it would not really take anything away from them. Those connected would know what discussion they belong to.
Thank you again for all your help and work.
Uno, I did not meet Hanna but wonderful men and women who all allowed, ike me to be reduced to half our potential. After a while of accepting another man’s will, one begins to loose one’s own. This is another great harm the Fellowship is doing to students.
205 Lateral Drift,
You’re a poor phony from the FOF, I don’t believe a word you’re saying. FOF cheap efforts to try to counteract the blog.
Re: Post 331 from David B. regarding Lateral Drift
David,
I think you rose to the bait on this one. I’ve got to believe that Literal Daft’s post was absolute baloney and was carefully crafted to elicit our disbelief and stunned horror. It also was placed here in the hope that some outsider doing research might read it and say to themselves: “This must a true school, otherwise, why would someone join despite all the negative information on this blog.” I’m sure they also hoped to receive responses such as yours.
But hey, I’ve been wrong before.
“Let me please introduce myself
I’m a man of wealth and taste
And I laid traps for troubadours
Who get killed before they reached bombay.”
319 Turbot/Brad Paisley
Guess it must have occurred to you that those two girls might actually like the Keats (five foot), the Byron (limp), the Rilke, the Green Alien… who all limp back a-symmetric, shorter, breathless (asthmatic), and wounded from their star-soul wars.
That they might be truly unimpressed by those ‘real article’ six foot fivers and muscle-gristlers who loom about dumbly believing in their divine right to… to what?
(A little bit of bullying perhaps)
Lateral Drift (#205):
I “read” your interest in the Fourth Way as being sincere.
For the reasons mentioned on this blog, I don’t think the FOF is the answer. Whether or not you decide to join the FOF, I would happily serve as one of your correspondents. But this blog is not an appropriate vehicle for that purpose. You can find me on the “What is the Work” social network. If you want an invite to that network, let me know here by tomorrow (since I might miss your post if it is put on much after that).
# 313 unoanimo on 10 Oct 2007 at 7:36 am
said:
Vera.mente ~
8 minutes to gather a sense of our connection and still a ? mark?
More time, since, after all, Time does seem to be the White Blood cells of God.
==========================================
I give you up. I do not feel a connection with you, if only through this blog which has been more bitter than sweet.
If you cannot explain yourself then quit giving me your smart mouth sentences.
You are watching (even counting minutes and words for goddsake) and analyzing through your mind all the posts coming through this blog, is this what you do all day long? dueling with words… in fact doing a kind of censoring, attacking…proving yourself here you may be the smarter , the most intelligent: Uno Animo Super Man!
I do not care if on the other hand you did the res ipso loquitur, and write great poems which I do not get anyway…if on a human level you cannot step down from your vanity and just talk to people here…not things, OK?
generally speaking
excuse me for a second, I thought that the usual protocol for a successful revolution was: wait until after the oppressor is defeated to start jumping at each other’s throats.
am I missing something?
337 ~
vera.mente ~
Ok
Thanks for your Fellowship of Friends greeting, it’s almost like being back in Robert Burton’s bedroom hearing him stumbling over his sexual predator coercive spittles of C-Influence measures and imaginary ‘checks & balances’.
on 10 Oct 2007 at 6:48 pm339 unoanimo
337 ~
vera.mente ~
Ok
Thanks for your Fellowship of Friends greeting, it’s almost like being back in Robert Burton’s bedroom hearing him stumbling over his sexual predator coercive spittles of C-Influence measures and imaginary ‘checks & balances’.
——————————————————
It is not a greeting.
and BTW you are a bit like your alter ego RB:
dominant, narcisssistic, vain…minus the rapes of course.
how come you do not see this?
338 Laura:
generally speaking
excuse me for a second, I thought that the usual protocol for a successful revolution was: wait until after the oppressor is defeated to start jumping at each other’s throats.
am I missing something
==========================================
if you are asking me, my throat has been hurting enough and for a while since I started posting here.
I am speaking without the censorship I used to have in the fof.
I am sure I am not the only one here who is taking this liberty….sorry for the pissing match in general, but I am f….g tired of holding back.
Being kind is not a value here most of the time anyway…
Hi Vinnie,
You are in London right? Why not pop over to Paris and check out the Giuseppe Arcimboldo exhibition at the Musée du Luxembourg? And tell us about it….
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/10/arts/design/10arci.html
(might need a subscription)
This is a clip from the NYT article:
“Along which lines Arcimboldo clearly picked up pointers from Bosch and no doubt from Persian miniaturists. A gorgeous show of classic Iranian art happens to have just opened at the Louvre, and it includes several astonishing paintings from Arcimboldo’s time: fantastical landscapes populated by wild creatures”
So, the Persian miniaturist show too? I recently saw a wonderful show at the Getty Museum in LA – ever been there? It was of Oudry’s painted menagerie from the court of Louis XV- very bizarre and fascinating.
Elena: Sadly enough it’s not really an option to repost the newly moderated comments at the end. By moderating them they automatically jump to their place, I would have to post them manually and that would be even more of a strain on my time of which I have less every month. Sorry.
The way FOF reacts to Top people leaving;
Ph_ll_p Lu_as now judged a religious nut.
As far as I can see PL saw the light, realized
how soul destroying the decadence and sexual
excesses are, that it was time for him to find a connection
to something higher, constructive, more noble.
He broke free and flew away
340
“how come you do not see this?”
__________________________
Because you’re standing up in front of the projector?
You win vera.mente; after all who would want whatever trophy comes from winning a “pissing contest”?
vera.mente
please understand me, I don’t have a problem with you or anyone else letting it all out. Don’t hold back, by all means.
I was just commenting on the general bickering going on, which may just be a general expression of frustration.
As an example of this, here is my little rant. I don’t know about you, but I at first I used to come to this blog in the hope of hearing and sharing real stories from both sides of the imaginary fence, and after a while, caught in the soap-opera grandiosity of it all, I started to get too excited about finding out the next “big scoop”. Unfortunately, rumors come and go, we read of mysterious events, guess at legal battles, try to put faces to initials… characters appear and disappear with no explanation. very frustrating for my curious nature how little I really understand the current situation. I hate the scarcity of informations and clear explanations about many puzzling issues. Who are these people still paying thousands of dollars for participating in events with Robert? Who is Robert going to fuck if the Russian boys go away? What is happening in Europe with Asaf? Can someone please find a moment to explain to me what exactly is Going Forth By Day? And what ever happened to Arthur?
Anyway, this sort of reminds me of the interval scene in so many war movies, you know that scene where soldiers crack jokes and tease each other and roll cigarettes to ease the tension before they are called to go into the battlefield. Or maybe like the journalists of other movies, waiting bored with their notepads and cameras for the jury verdict outside the courthouse doors. Here we are, talking about schemes and cabbages and kings, getting a bit bored (I do sometimes), knowing full well that right as we talk what we now consider an abomination, Robert’s reign, continues, and more and more often it seems, the conversation ends up being about how stupid or unpleasant this or the other person’s mechanical manifestations are, and maybe that’s just because it’s the easiest thing for us to do. I am just afraid that it is a big waste of energy in relation to the larger aim of the blog. I would rather stay focused on the deeper issues. On the other hand, Nietzsche said that what doesn’t kill us makes us stronger, and I really hope this blog community will continue to thrive through the blood bath.
After all, aren’t we just painted ponies running around the enneagram merry-go-round, bobbing up and down in our merry astrological dance, looking in the mirror for the fairest of them all? But wait, haven’t we done enough of that in Robert Burton’s school already? How much of our energy are we still investing in furthering the belief that one’s mechanical expressions are really better than another’s? The endless battle of the king over the jack, the gold over the lead, the saturn over the lunar, the vain over the tramp… I don’t like to call people machines but this is what all the button-pushing reminds me of, feeling stuck once again in one of those big pain factories, grandiose and merciless, the old and stale familiar smell of rusting metal and motor oil…
Thanks Ames for the bookmarks, a little real action goes a long way.
Thanks Another Name for your concern.
Bruce, you are such a sweetiepie.
I have one question for the GF members do you have meetings that into the teaching of Being Present or are they all about bringing FOF down.
My e-mail address is marys_angels@peoplepc.com
Mary,
I’ve sent this to you privately, but perhaps there are others out there wondering:
We don’t have “meetings” at all – the GF site is simply a networking website that allows former and current FoF (and even some never Fof) members to reconnect, have on-line discussions about all kinds of things, and “talk” to each other on their individual “pages”. There is no agenda for the site as to tearing down the FoF. Mostly folks are just finding their old friends, who were lost due to the practice of “shunning” ex-students.
to Mary #346
The Greater Fellowship has no formal meetings. We have online discussion forums on many topics. Anyone can start a discussion on any topic. The gatherings we have had so far have been social. You could invite people on the site who would like to meet on the topic of Being Present. You may also be interested in the “What is the Work?” website. http://whatisthework.ning.com/
vena – 318
Glad the words are of some help. It brings some pain to me to read those last words you wrote. I know it must be difficult, but observe carefully that feeling of “so many years wasted”. Our whole life we have been indoctrinated into a linear idea of time. The school also, with all the ideas connected to people in the past and R’s silly predictions for the future, and how long a person had been in the FOF, etc. What if that perception and idea of time is just an error. I do not pretend to have attained that level of understanding and I certainly have parts of myself that wish I had done many things differently. Yet I have had glimpses of it. If there is one idea from the system called the ‘fourth way’ that is the most valuable it is the idea of ‘the present moment’. It is at the center of Zen Buddhism and Taoism. It is in every poem of Rumi. If you look closely it does begin to appear that both past and future may well be illusions, and that perhaps the moment we are in is truly all there is. It is where R was supposed to lead us and he certainly spoke of it, even eloquently at times, but he did not lead us there, and I have doubts that he has led anyone there. I left the school long before all of this ’sequence’ stuff that I have read about came along. I suspect it is just more mystical/mental gymnastic bullshit that R has come up with to make it appear that he knows something that others do not. From some of the posts I have read, I marvel that anyone is still in the school.
Anyway, sorry to be so wordy and I certainly did not write to this blog with anything to try and teach or tell anyone. I just wanted to say ‘hi’ to some of those lovely people I met and have missed.
But remember -You have escaped! – feel good – feel strong that you made that move. You have entertained and worked with ideas that are actually quite amazing. Walt Whitman said,
“Be not discouraged, keep on, there are divine things well envelop’d, I swear to you there are divine things more beautiful than words can tell.”
Dear all,
I’ve changed the web location of the ‘anti-bookmarks’ that Laura mentioned above, and it is now a PDF file rather than an image file. I also changed the words a bit, in response to feedback. I encourage anyone who is so inclined to make their own bookmarks, in their own words, to suit their own viewpoint. I’m only going to place mine in books that already have FoF bookmarks.
There are six bookmarks to a page. You can download the PDF file from:
http://www.californianativebulbs.com/PDFFiles/Anti-Bookmark.pdf
Thanks Ames.
335 Anna
319 Turbot/Brad Paisley
Guess it must have occurred to you that those two girls might actually like the Keats (five foot), the Byron (limp), the Rilke, the Green Alien… who all limp back a-symmetric, shorter, breathless (asthmatic), and wounded from their star-soul wars.
That they might be truly unimpressed by those ‘real article’ six foot fivers and muscle-gristlers who loom about dumbly believing in their divine right to… to what?
(A little bit of bullying perhaps)
The caricature of the six foot fiver is far more fantastic than the grubby little guy who powers up his computer in his basement bedroom – he is the real article. Of course we are dealing in caricatures and there are few losers quite as pathetic as the one described in the song. The obvious point that the song makes is that forums, chat rooms, blogs etc, allow enormous scope for people to present themselves in a way that they never could in normal face to face encounters. The FOF blog is not free of this. I present my views in a way I would probably not in a real human encounter as well. This needs to be discounted when evaluating folks on the bolg. The feeling I have had about Enymeenyminymo, reading his posts over the months, or at least as much as was intelligible, is that his on line persona is becoming rather extreme and I would expect it to be significantly out of balance with the way he conducts his ‘real’ life. Of course he has left the school which brings about some kind of identity crisis and testing and exposing our new, post-FOF personae on the blog is part of its value. You allude to some great poets and point out that they were disadvantaged in terms of traditional qualities of attraction for the opposite sex. I don’t’ know much about their biographies, but expect that the vast majority of people who externalize parts of their characters in order to gain approval, do so because they find it hard to get laid or liked or respected or valued for themselves. The question is why someone goes to the trouble of externalizing, or creating – as the vain like to call it. What is their motivation? The guy in the song is building an alter ego that offers him more satisfaction than liv