NEW DISCUSSION

My experiences: One balmy summer eve, I took a certain number of leaves from her, formed a “quid” to chew on, it has an unbelievably bitter taste. I reclined on a couch, closed my eyes and went very, very far away. The details I won’t go into but she left me with the strong impression that she was not to be taken lightly, she is not to be used for recreational pastime. The “trip” lasted several hours and when I tried to get off the couch I had a strong feeling of vertigo… so the evening was spent in a reclining position. The second time was a year later and it was the last time I used her (or she used me). She was taken in the form of dried leaves smoked through a water pipe. This was a frightening experience and I don’t consider myself a “lightweight” when it comes to these things, I grew up in the 60’s & ’70’s and took my share of entheogens… I was experienced but “Silvia” the salvia made it clear on that summer night, she was not to be trifled with. When smoked, the “trip” is much shorter — only about half an hour to 40 minutes until I returned to something resembling “baseline” but in that brief encounter she took me to a place that I have no desire to re-visit. We kept Silvia for a few years after that but eventually she succumbed to the dormant periods and didn’t return one spring. I still have a big bag of the dried leaves which I have no intention of using myself… as far as I know she is still “legal” here in the U.S. but occasionally I hear about attempts to legislate against her… that’s all.

You said in your post “drop the obsequious attitude, muster some humanity, and come down to our level.” Your use of the word “our” in the sense of the “royal we” is an attempt to recruit “team members” to your “cause” — it’s the “us” against the “other” mentality again; in this case I happen to be the “other” and your target as it were. Let me make something clear, this is between you and I, since I am the one you’re addressing in your post and you are the one I address here. You attempt to slander me by implying that I’m an alcoholic, that’s just wrong on many levels. I’ll suggest to you that you get a grip on your own rage, if you need to vent it on me, I’ll say as a “kindred spirit” I understand your outrage and as your current target I will tolerate it for the time being but you need to realize at some point that I’m not the source and if you continue venting in my direction it can only lead to frustration and more rage on your part. I think I understand your rage and your need to vent it here, you’ve recently lost your religion and your wife, that’s a tough situation to be in — I know, I’ve been through it. I feel your pain, and am truly sorry for you Whalerider but I will not pity you, call it “tough love” if you like.

In times of certain types of crises such as a personal “breakdown” it can be as if one has “by accident” tapped into a layer of sorrow that underlies life on the planet, it’s the realization of a vast strata of suffering inherent to all life, past present and future… there’s so much pain and suffering on this ball of mud, it’s seems at times like everything here floats on a sea of tears that threatens to submerge any sense of terra firma if we give in to the sorrow, so we cover up as best we can, put on a brave face and carry on, or mask it — with displaced aggression, various self-deceptions, self-medication (as you point out), t.v., “consumerism,” etc, etc. Based on my own experience, years of tears can help dissolve the anger and outrage… at the risk of sounding “sexist”, females tend to have the advantage here in that they are more in touch with their tears, they’re able to process pain differently than males, a lot of this has to do with cultural conditioning in conjunction with the obvious glandular “chemical” factors. Regardless of gender, there is a time when grieving is needed, loss is a reason for grief and you have experienced a terrible loss relatively recently. Because I have been through it, I realize I run the “risk” here of sounding “condescending” — please forgive — but… give yourself time to grieve and then move on, dwelling for too long in the grief does no one any good, these wounds are still fresh for you, I understand… At the same time, the anger and rage you’re feeling should not be stiffled, these emotions can serve as fuel for action, anger is an energy… but you misplace it when you direct it at me brother, I am not your enemy.

Sorry, I should have gone to the website you gave before typing my response to you.

The Sagewisdom site is also listed at Erowid. In fact I intend to order some things from this site. I overlooked the experience reports on Sagewisdom.

Thanks for the reminder. And, may the druids be with you.

Several years ago I wanted to start a shaman’s garden so I ordered a Salvia among others. It died because I overwatered it. I reordered and that one died too.

The nursery where I ordered it from only said it was used for divination. I only realized how powerful when I found the Erowid website.

Most days I can be found on the Erowid website. I am going to start another shaman’s garden hopefully in the spring.

If you are interested in reading some unbelieveable experience reports go to Erowid and look up “Psychoactive Vaults”. Look for Salvia. Go there and then look for Experience Reports. There will be a handful and after the last one you will see “more”. Go into “more” and find “Mystical” for starters.

I’ve never used Salvia but I’m turning into a Salvia Geek.

Dear Arthur, have you personally tried salvia divinorum?
I am curious, since I have read some very interesting reports of amazing trips, both ecstatic and agonizing.
Some are downright scary, like this bit:

“The first thing I remember is when I was uncontrollably running and the universe had ceased to exist, along with me. That was the most intense and the most terrifying experience I’ve ever had sober or tripping. This was as real as you know yourself now, or as any pain or fear you’ve ever felt. Except that there, in that world, you feel absolutely helpless and alone.

When you’re too fucked up and your trip becomes scary, you keep asking, “Is this how it is going to be now?! When will it be over?!” On Salvia you don’t ask these questions, because where you are is all there is. It is all there ever was, and it is all that you now can possibly imagine. On Salvia it is not a parallel reality, it is a complete substitution of reality. There is no other reality but the one Salvia gives you, and there never was any other reality but something that was staged. That is probably the single most disturbing aspect of a Salvia trip—a complete substitution of reality.”

on the other hand…

“I gazed around the room and everything started turning counter-clockwise, like an invisible hand was turning everything in the room for my amusement. I said, “Oh my god,” and closed my eyes, and that’s when I felt this overwhelming happy feeling–impossible to describe really. I felt several hands on both sides of me lift me up, and I was running up a hill, I was being whisked away. I started laughing, and my laugh was infectious and loud in my ears. A continuous happy sound that made me feel so alive, so free. I sat up in my chair, and it felt as if the wind was blowing through my hair as these invisible people laughed with me as we ran. But my feet felt they never touched the ground, I seemed to be floating fast. Each step I ran, the music I heard kept perfect synchronized steps. I was climbing a gently inclined hill, and at the top I stopped laughing for a second, and the hands let go of me, and I started running down the other side with arms outward like a kid pretending she’s an airplane, laughing the whole way down. I zigzagged this way and that way, I was so happy, as tiny beams of light followed beside me, sometimes crossing in front of me, and I would laugh harder as I passed through them. I remember trying to stop laughing, but when I tried to stop, the infectious giddiness would not allow me to stop, so I went with the feeling and just laughed and laughed. I felt pure happiness. Pure peace. The words are difficult to find to describe it.”

this, and much more, at:
http://www.sagewisdom.org/experiences.html

If any of you has reports from the field, I for one would love to hear them.

Oh, how could I forget the knowing, noble, self conscious, slightly blissful, part satisfied part detached look on the proud faces of the good children of Influence C (including mine)?
The look of luck.

Talk about mindwanking!

Wayne M_tt said,

“The sequence is the greatest instrument of change ever given to man.”

(poor man , very scaring, I thought that the guy , WM was ok!!)

With all due respect, the tone of your recent posts is like an alcoholic’s generalized rail against all the clueless people in the world beneath you that you have to endure each day who “just don’t get it”. (Alcoholics live out ‘drama’ like this, justifying their drinking to dull feelings of rage.) You have mentioned this several times in your posts to those who disagree with you. You said Elena and I “don’t get it” and you “don’t expect us to”. Thanks for nothing! You accuse others of being condescending, yet you come across as sounding fairly condescending yourself, ton, like you with your good buddy Jung are just way over our heads. So who came first, the chicken or the egg?

If you “mean it when I say good luck to you and I do wish you the best”, then please drop the obsequious attitude, muster some humanity, and come down to our level. Nobody is out to get you. If you are the enemy of my enemy, then you are my friend. Are you able to relate to me personally as a kindred spirit, or not?

Who is your enemy?

I’ve been searching for a suitable avatar and your reference to the two “Bobs” provided the inspiration I required!

For those unfamiliar with “Bob the Builder’s” chant it goes like this:

“Bob the Builder can he fix it? Bob the builder, yes he can!”

I’m sure he’s on YouTube, but I can’t be arsed to look!