Welcome to the 30th part of the Fellowship of Friends Discussion.For previous parts of the discussion please visit AnimamRecro or the Main page of this blog.For more organized reading check out The Fellowship of Friends WikiSpace.
For sites in Russian and Italian, click http://fofway.narod.ru/ and http://laliberastrada.blogspot.com/ respectively.
For more information check Rick Ross and Steven Hassan.
This is where you can find the website of the Fellowship of Friends.
If you decide to interact as well as digest, feel free to start here.
And as always (and above else), enjoy and have fun.
Oh…. its like walking on untrodden snow…….
If you have a gripe you can back up with fact then please consider sending Susan a letter.
Just click on Wikispace above then petition and see whats required.
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Experience is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you.
– Aldous Huxley
J x
Rumour has it there’ll be an article about the FOF in the Sac Bee on Monday.
A little Coleman Barks RUMI :
THE SUNRISE RUBY
In the early morning hour,
just before dawn, lover and beloved wake
and take a drink of water.
She asks, “Do you love me or yourself more?
Really, tell the absolute truth.”
He says, “There’s nothing left of me.
I’m like a ruby held up to the sunrise.
Is it still a stone, or a world
made of redness? It has no resistance
to sunlight.”
This is how Hallaj said, “I am God”,
and told the truth!
The ruby and the sunrise are one.
Be courageous and discipline yourself.
Completely become hearing and ear
and wear this sun-ruby as an earring.
Work. Keep digging your well.
Don’t think about getting off from work.
Water is there somewhere.
Submit to a daily practice.
Your loyalty to that
is a ring on the door.
Keep knocking, and the joy inside
will eventually open a window
and look out to see who’s there.
“Submit to a daily practice.
Your loyalty to that
is a ring on the door.”
Or perhaps a ring in the nose?
2. Nuthead
Rumors abound about the Sacramento Bee article.
Suppose to print anyday now.
Keep us posted will you?
….as the apostles argued amongst themselves as to which of them were the greatest one thing became (painfully) obvious…
During the projections at the Cosmodemonic-MysteryScience Multi-Plex 6,000,000,000 (6 billion theaters and only one screen, how DID they do it?) a few of the movie goers had somehow managed to get elephant dick wedged inextricably up their tight little flea pussies.
Yesri 5
This salvia does seem to have interesting effects.
Abigail-
Well, you know what they say.. If you don’t like the effects stop licking the spittle.
I didn’t see anything in the Sacramento Bee today. Does anyone have any more information about this?
5 is newly moderated.
9 Vena
When I did a search I happened to come across their previous article which contained these interesting quotes (Lindalies):
Lawsuits accusing the group’s founder and spiritual leader, Robert Burton, of sexual improprieties scared off distributors, says Beinstock; one suit was dismissed and two others were settled by the Fellowship’s insurance companies to save the costs of litigation, says Tulisso.
here it is…
“The Fellowship itself never paid a penny in settlement,” notes Tulisso, who added that the suits were filed by former members who failed to produce evidence to support their accusations.”
What a slimy grease ball.
9 Vena
My informant was wrong, though there’s an article about Salvia. Maybe two articles about people addicted to states would be too much for one issue.
Thing about salvia is, it’s sentient.
12 veronicapoe
I would tend to agree.
I spent close to an hour yesterday writing an extremely long post about my fairly extensive experiences with salvia. When I hit “submit,” I got a message that the blog had switched to a new page, and my post was lost in the ether. I didn’t have the time to re-write it, but maybe I’ll be able to soon.
12 veronicapoe
13 Innernaut
Veronicapoe – Other than the info at Erowid, I don’t know much about salvia. Could you elaborate on the idea that it is ’sentient’, and did you mean that any external substance would be so?
Innernaut – Not sure if salvia is anything I might experiment with, but I would like to hear of your experiences.
13 Innernaut
Sounds like the vegetable version of Inflence C.
Daily Card,
The rabid bloggers are comparing saliva stories.
‘Life lacks the idea of looking for truly legitimate esoteric sources. Influence B does not count-only Influence C does.’
Based on this above line of thinking, I ask this rather important question of any current members of the Fellowship of Friends: The
Fellowship of Friends, for more years than can be counted, has perused the world for ‘esoteric sources’ that supposedly confirm the prior existence of school on the planet (presuming Influence C operating) and the material that is found can be no better than Influence B, by definition, to be delivered to you for your time, efforts and money. And, especially now/recently, when/where there are tens, if not hundreds, of members worldwide doing research scouring for sources of this material, or making it up as you go along, in order to have the equivalent of dogmatic, highly scripted, content for the meetings that is likely to be NO BETTER THAN Influence B? I would postulate that it is being done for Influence A purposes: 1) Gives reason to have meetings. 2) Enables there to be money charged. 3) Supports your identification with the Fellowship of Friends being a school, a religion, and/or a source of Influence C, 4) Puts on a good show, 5) Keeps people busy – while most spontaneity and real issues that people need to work on are glossed over and ignored. 6) Feeds the false personality of the Fellowship of Friends. Influence C does not need Influence B; Influence B needs Influence C. Influence C creates Influence B. Influence C does not need to go find Influences B. Maybe, just maybe, the Fellowship of Friends does not have any connexion to Influence C?
So here is some support for this above logic from Ouspensky (Oh, I almost forgot, the Fellowship of Friends has rejected Ouspensky and is no longer a fourth way school.):
Ouspensky defining Influence B in The Psychology of Man’s Possible Evolution:
‘The second kind [Influences B] consists of interests of a different order aroused by ideas which are not created in life but come originally from schools. These influences do not reach man directly. They are thrown into the general turnover of life, pass through many different minds and reach a man through philosophy, science, religion and art, always mixed with influences of the first kind [Influences A] and generally very little resembling what they were in their beginning. In most cases men do not realise the different origin of the influences of the second kind and often explain them as having the same origin as the first kind.’
Influence B exists for the purpose of feeding magnetic centre. Why is the Fellowship of Friends still dieting on Influences B?
Ouspensky/Gurdjieff defining Influence B in In Search of the Miraculous:
‘So far I have spoken of the right magnetic center, of the right guide, and of the right way. But a situation is possible in which the magnetic center has been wrongly formed. It may be divided in itself, that is, it may include contradictions. In it, moreover, may enter influences of the first kind [Influences A], that is, those created in life, under the guise of influences of the second kind [Influences B], or the traces of influences of the second kind but distorted to such an extent that they have become their own opposite. Such a wrongly formed magnetic center cannot give a right orientation. A man with a wrong magnetic center of this kind may also look for the way and he may meet another man who will call himself a teacher and will say that he knows the way and that he is connected
with a center standing outside the law of accident. But in reality he may not know the way and may not be connected with such a center. Moreover here again there are many possibilities:
1. He may be genuinely mistaken and think that he knows something, when in reality he knows nothing. 2. He may believe another man, who in his turn may be mistaken. 3. He may deceive consciously. Then if the man who is seeking the way believes him, he may lead him in a quite different direction and not where he promises; he may lead him very far from the right way and bring him to results directly opposite to the results of the right way. But fortunately this happens very rarely, that is, wrong ways are very numerous but in the majority of cases they do not lead anywhere. And a man simply turns circles on the same spot and thinks that he is going somewhere.
‘How can a wrong way be recognized?’ asked somebody. ‘How can it be recognized?’ said G. ‘It is. impossible to recognize a wrong way without knowing the right way. This means that it is no use troubling oneself how to recognize a wrong way. One must think of how to find the right way. This is what we are speaking about all the time. It cannot be said in two words. But from what I have said you can draw many useful conclusions if you remember everything that has been said and everything which follows from it. For example, you can see that the teacher always corresponds to the level of the pupil. The higher the pupil, the higher can be the teacher. But a pupil of a level which is not particularly high cannot count on a teacher of a very high level. Actually a pupil can never
see the level of the teacher. This is a law. [As soon as you can see the level of the teacher, they are no longer your teacher.] No one can see higher than his own level. But usually people not only do not know this, but, on the contrary, the lower they are
themselves, the higher the teacher they demand. The right understanding of this point is already a very considerable understanding. But it occurs very seldom. Usually the man himself is not worth a brass farthing but he must have as teacher no other than Jesus
Christ. [Or, conversely: The higher the level, self-proclaimed by the teacher, the more likely they are not worth a brass farthing.] To less he will not agree. And it never enters his head that even if he were to meet such a teacher as Jesus Christ, taking him as he is described in the Gospels, he would never be able to follow him because it would be necessary to be on the level of an apostle in order to be a pupil of Jesus Christ. Here is a definite law. The higher the teacher, the more difficult for the pupil. And if the difference in the levels of the teacher and pupil go beyond a certain limit, then the difficulties in the path of the pupil become insuperable. It is
exactly in connection with this law that there occurs one of the fundamental rules of the fourth way. On the fourth way there is not one teacher. Whoever is the elder, he is the teacher. And as the teacher is indispensable to the pupil, so also is the pupil
indispensable to the teacher. The pupil cannot go on without the teacher, and the teacher cannot go on without the pupil or pupils. And this is not a general consideration but an indispensable and quite concrete rule on which is based the law of a man’s ascending.
As has been said before, no one can ascend onto a higher step until he places another man in his own place. What a man has received he must immediately give back; only then can he receive more. Otherwise from him will be taken even what he has already been given.” [Who has Robert placed on a higher step so that he could ascend? Where is the continuum from man 4 to his man 7.4? No wonder REB and FoF are going nowhere except turning endlessly in a small circle of friends.]
More on this later.
Ya’ll probably know this already, nevertheless…
“…who joins a cult? The easy and most popular belief is that cult disciples are inadequates of low intelligence. But in her extensive study of cults, sociologist Eileen Barker has found the opposite. The normal cult member is of above average intelligence and comes from a well-balanced, middleclass background. What appears to be happening is that, as modern life becomes more secular and materialist, an increasing number of intelligent people are finding life unfulfilling and meaningless… and if established religions fail to appeal to this increasing minority, then spiritual values are found in fringe cults – of which there are well over a thousand in Britain alone. And once hooked, the follower’s search for meaning, combined with the guru’s charisma, leads to a psychological process that guarantees obedience… once a cult has been formed by a guru, individuals who feel a lacking in life are sucked into the madness of cultism through psychological coercion, brainwashing or mind control. People joining cults usually argue such techniques would not work on them, but the favoured methods of meditation used by cults, combined with forms of sleep deprivation and bombarding the initiate with information, inevitably lead to, first, sensory overload, and second, obedience to the whim of a guru. Clearly cult membership also leads to a rejection of family ties as the cult becomes the new family….” etc.
http://beyondtheblog.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/the-cult-disciple/
James, thanks for the Sunrise Ruby, it’s a true gem and a wonderful thing to wake up to this morning.
11 is newly moderated.
Sentient. As in, a thinking, feeling, living being.
Okay, I’ll try this again. It’s incredibly long, so feel free to skip.
I first heard about salvia about 10 years ago, probably on erowid and sagewisdom. I read about it and was intrigued, but not enough to order any (it’s legal, or at least at the time it was). However, I was definitely curious. I read about how the plant was cultivated by native peoples in a small village in Mexico, and about how they used the plant in religious and healing ceremonies. They always seemed to use them in so-called “sacred pairs,” which struck me as interesting, though I wasn’t sure of its significance.
Not long after learning about salvia, I went with my family to the local arboretum. I went off by myself and found myself in a “medicinal garden.” I started looking around, and what should I find but a nice healthy salvia divinorum plant. I bent down and examined it, and noticed what looked like dried up old leaves underneath it. Just as I was doing that, a fresh leaf just fell right off onto the ground. That kind of blew my mind, because I was just thinking I’d like to get a leaf, but I wasn’t going to pick one and mess up the arboretum’s plant. As I was crouching there looking at the leaf on the ground, I remembered the idea of the “sacred pairs” – at that point something possessed me to reach out and touch the plant, incredibly lightly and gently, and another leaf fell right off and landed by the other one. Naturally, I pocketed the two leaves, with the feeling that the plant had offered itself to me (call me crazy, but that’s exactly what it seemed like).
I let the leaves dry out, and one night when my family was asleep, I set myself up to try it. I arranged a bunch of cushions such that I could do it sitting down, and not harm myself if I fell over unconscious, which is what I’d heard would happen when you smoked it (it did, BTW). I also arranged a safe area for the pipe so I wouldn’t set the house on fire if (when) it slipped from my unfeeling fingers. With the preparations made, I took a big puff.
It seemed like nothing happened at first, because my awareness told me that I was still sitting on the cushions in this room. The transition to an altered state happens instantaneously, IME, and while your body falls unconscious, your awareness seems unchanged at first. Then it changed. I was still sitting in my room, but suddenly I was sitting on what appeared to be a little island, with flames and sparks shooting up all around it. I looked around the room, and there were a number of women – old women in what looked like Mexican native dress – and they were each sitting on their own island, with the flames and sparks shooting up. Then I noticed that they were all holding on to each other’s islands, trying to keep them together. The old woman nearest me indicated that I needed to grab on to her island, to keep us all together. I had the sensation that this was urgent, like we were each sitting on a tectonic plate, and unless we held these things together, the world would come apart. So I grabbed hold.
The thing about smoking salvia (IME), is that the state is so real, it seems like it’s really happening. During the experience, I knew that I had smoked it, but I thought the results of that were physically happening. At that point I remembered my wife sleeping on the other side of the house, and became aware of all the noise we were making, what with the flames and lava shooting up, and the women telling me to hold on. I started thinking, oh great, this is going to wake her up, she’s going to come in and how will I explain all the old women, not to mention the flames? I worried about that for a bit, then suddenly I was waking up, reclining on the pillows, the pipe no longer in my hand but in the big ashtray thing I had made. Thus ended my first experience.
I’ve done it a fair number of times, but for me it’s not the kind of thing you want to repeat any time soon. So all my experiences were pretty far apart, time-wise.
The next time I smoked it, I made the same set-up, waited till very late at night, then took a big puff. Once again, it seemed as if nothing had happened. I was wondering if this experience was going to be a dud, when I started hearing a sound off in the distance. It sounded like some kind of giant being, and I could definitely sense some kind of presence — it got louder and louder as it seemed to approach my house. Suddenly I had the experience (which is somewhat common, I hear) of being rolled around and around. It turns out this giant being was clomping along, rolling up all 3-dimensional matter like a carpet (don’t ask how I know, it was obvious at the time).
I could hear it approaching the house, and I knew what it was doing, then here I go, rolling over and over, along with everything else in the room. I ended up in what I can only describe as an undifferentiated mass of matter – everything had lost its individual shape, like an elaborate clay sculpture that someone smooshed back into one big blob. And here I am, stuck in the middle of it. Once again, I thought this had really happened. I thought, great, I smoked salvia and now our house, yard, town, are all rolled up in one giant mess of nothing – what will my wife think of this? I was worried because there was no way she could not notice this. At some point I started feeling claustrophobic, and started struggling and pushing at this mass. It then occurred to me that I could push myself back into my own form, along with all the other contents of my room. So I felt I essentially had the responsibility of re-forming all the matter around me back into its 3-dimensional shape – tables, lamps, computer, etc. So, I pushed the stuff back into its familiar form, and woke up, once again reclining on the pillows.
Those are two representative experiences of smoking it. I was intrigued enough to want to try it some more, so I ordered a bag from sagewisdom. I ended up having the majority of my experiences by chewing the leaves, as the active chemical is readily absorbed in the mouth tissue. You take some dried leaves, soak them in water so you won’t have a mouthful of dust, then form a “quid” and chew it until you reach the level you want. It takes effect after about 20 minutes of slow chewing, and I didn’t find the taste that unpleasant. Once it kicks in, you can keep chewing to go higher, so you have more control over the intensity, unlike smoking, which is pretty much all or nothing. I’m not positive how long the smoking experience lasts, but I think it’s about 5 minutes. Chewing results in a peak of about a half hour or 40 minutes. It definitely affects your motor skills, so you have to settle in on the couch or bed so you don’t stumble around and hurt yourself.
Chewing it is very slightly like other kinds of tripping, but it really is completely unique and can’t be compared to anything else. At this point I should say that whichever way you do it, it is not a “fun” drug, definitely not a party substance. It should be approached with total respect and used for self-exploration or with a spiritual intent. IMO.
I will just relate a couple of experiences chewing salvia, because it is so different from smoking it, though there are definite “themes” or similarities.
One of the times I chewed it, for example, I experienced the native woman theme again – though in a completely different way. I had chewed the leaves and gotten to the level I wanted, and went to the kitchen sink to spit out the leaves and rinse my mouth out. As I bent over the sink, I was no longer in my kitchen. I was in a brightly sunlit, dusty Mexican village, leaning over to drink from water flowing from a pipe set in an adobe wall. Also, I was no longer myself, but an older, somewhat heavy-set native woman. I had zero awareness of my “normal” life, but WAS this person, in this place. It was one of the most amazing drug experiences I have ever had. It only lasted a few moments, but during that time I was experiencing a completely different life. Weird. I stood up and I was back in my kitchen, and went and sat down and had the rest of the experience.
That was the only time that I can remember that I lost awareness of my ordinary setting. Normally chewing the leaves doesn’t transport you the way smoking does.
Another time the experience began with hearing my thoughts as though they were completely external. You know the thoughts that are constantly generated by the mind – they sounded absolutely as if someone was in the room speaking them to me. And the weird thing is, they had a British accent. It was a little freaky, because I had the thought that this must be what schizophrenics hear when they hear voices. That same experience, as I was hearing my thoughts, I heard that giant being off in the distance – the one that was rolling everything up. It was clomping around, but it never came close to my house. The repetition of that thing was intriguing, as was the native woman theme.
I’ll just relate one more experience, because it was probably the most important for me. First, let me say that in my youth I had a LOT of various experiences. Toward the end of this period, I started having some very negative, bad trips. Filled with panic and fear. It’s the main reason I stopped doing that stuff.
The last time I did salvia, I chewed it and lay down. It was a very intense experience, and for the first time on this plant I started having that familiar panic rising up, which if you’ve ever experienced it is pretty miserable – it builds on itself getting more and more panicky. Internally, I start turning this way and that, trying to hide from it or make it stop, but that just makes it worse.
This time something different happened. As I was fighting the fear, it suddenly occurred to me that what I was feeling was okay – that if I was afraid, then that was exactly right, and what I was supposed to be feeling – there was nothing “wrong” with it. I realized that all those times in the past I had fought the fear because I thought I shouldn’t be feeling it. The moment I accepted what was happening, the fear vanished and I felt this kind of ecstatic happiness, like I had had a major healing breakthrough. That happiness was the only time I felt like that on salvia – it’s not generally an ecstatic drug, IME. That experience was several years ago, and I haven’t had the desire to do it again. Maybe someday.
So, that’s my tale of salvia. I’m not sure I can recommend it, but neither would I try and dissuade you. But if you do it, it would be much smarter to have someone with you, especially if you smoke it. Otherwise you could really hurt yourself or set the house on fire. Even chewing it will make your legs pretty wobbly.
Be careful out there, and happy trails.
ton:
You continue to refer to yourself as made of rubber. Buffers are made of rubber, my friend.
My intention is not to have the last word at all, (that’s your projection) but is and always has been to dialogue with you, yet you would like to silence me with your condescending attitude about gamesmanship, which speaks to your defensiveness, not my pain. So I am unclear if you do indeed wish me well. There will be no last word here, there will only be cessation of communication between two people with the same features, dominance. So be it.
My references to your style of railing against “people are weird” etc., (as you wrote) were to alcoholic behavior, which, in my professional experience, often extends long beyond the use of the drug. It is not slander, nor a personal attack. Slander would be calling you something you are not. And being an alcoholic is nothing to be ashamed of.
Just so we are clear, ignorance is our mutual enemy, not each other.
“a thinking, feeling living being” and according to what I’ve read so far, a female energy.
Somehow, all the reasons people had for chasing after Robert Burton can be explained by this “entity”.
Remember the “I” exercise? “I” to (it). Under the auspices of the plant “I” is taken away. Of course, this is my understanding so far.
Innernaut (22),
Thanks!!
Hi Whalerider,
Even if it were true that Ton drinks I don’t understand what is the point of saying it here. I do not wish to know these things about people because they do attack something one privately knows that will predispose others in relation to that person. Perhaps I made mistakes like that in relation to Girard and have the justification that Girard chose to be a public figure, one who has been determining people’s lives for twenty years in the Fellowship of Friends with deep indoctrination and as such I am questioning his integrity but indeed I might have, in my “wounded ness” gone way too far. I do not regret exposing Girard but I regret offending people in my exposure and I am hoping you don’t fall in the same pattern. Is that the situation with you? The feeling of having lost your stability is putting you on a defensive state so tough that you are attacking Ton with extremely pointed arms? Is it worth it? So you know each other and here is where you’re going to tell us about it? What is your aim? The fact that one was rejected does not mean that one has to make up reasons to be rejected consistently. You are much loved here on this blog Whalerider. Can you take that?
I know I have absolutely no authority on this matter but please stop.
Hopefully Ton will not buy on the bait but the fishing’s gone too far over a trifle. Might you be in a less vulnerable place Ton? Hopefully…
#3 James Mclemore
#19 ton
Ditto for me James. That is a gem. A gem is a stone, right ton?
yesri 27
yeseree, that’s right, a precious stone, much valued… thanks again James. Speaking of stone(d), thanks Innernaut for the salvia tales, your experiences sound generally and somewhat similar to my own with the “mint” — definitely not for “recreational” purposes.
Elena, thank you truly for your response to our friend the Whalerider… I had hoped that we really did turn the page.
Pray for peace, it starts “at home” it starts within and it does require a certain type of strength.
All the best to y’all.
22 innernaut
Thanks for the tales.
‘Life lacks the idea of looking for truly legitimate esoteric sources. Influence B does not count-only Influence C does.’
A revealing angle from RB who obviously looks for legitimate esoteric sources then counts everything in them, e.g. number of toes, number of fingers, number of sides in a square, (good to double check the last one occasionally). Now perhaps I understand his rationale – only influence C counts!
Good Lord, the fine ladies at the Oregon House store can also sometimes count, I shall show them more respect tomorrow and slyly observe the workings of their esoteric arithmetic.
Why is it though that great c influence seems only to be able to count up to ten? As the school evolves will it move towards triple digits, the 94 wordless breaths perhaps? These and other puzzling questions must presumably remain unanswered until my higher emotional centre turns terracotta color and combusts.
p.s. Shouldn’t we all be wearing asbestos hats?
For those interested in the plant conversation and in the subject of plants as sentient beings, poking around on this site might be interesting:
http://www.greenearthfound.org/index.html
It’s Ralph Metzner’s web site and contains links to books, full text of some of his writing, workshops he teaches, etc.
Ralph was one of the infamous three who did psychedelic research at Harvard in the 1960’s. The other two were Timothy Leary and Ram Dass (Richard Alpert). He went a less flashy, more academic route, attracting less attention.
waskathleenw(31),
I am interested thanks for the link. It’s appreciated.
Deleted on request of the author. — ES
Thanks for the link waskathleen 31… I tend to think that reconnecting with our biosphere as indicated by the “plant teachers” may show humanity a way out of the current morass we’ve created for ourselves and other living creatures. Somewhat related but taking a slightly different, perhaps less typically “shamanic” approach — here’s a site with an interesting philosophy… though you may already be familiar with bltc.
http://www.bltc.com/
On the darker side, here’s an article called Sex, Drugs, and Cults… Although the article does talk about other types of drugs (alcohol for example) an interesting take is that the “drugs” referred to here can are endogenous (i.e. dopamine and endorphins) which are produced under certain ‘cult conditions.’
“Two major evolved psychological mechanisms emerge from the past to make us susceptible to cults. Capture-bonding exemplified by Patty Hearst and the Stockholm Syndrome is one. Attention-reward is the other. Attention is the way social primates measure status. Attention indicates status and is highly rewarding because it causes the release of brain chemicals such as dopamine and endorphins. Actions lead to Attention that releases Rewarding brain chemicals. Drugs shortcut attention in the Action-Attention-Reward (AAR) brain system and lead to the repeated behaviour we call addiction. Gambling also causes misfiring of the AAR pathway. Memes that manifest as cults hijack this brain reward system by inducing high levels of attention behaviour between cult members. People may become irresponsible on either cults or drugs sometimes resulting in severe damage… Cult gatherings or human-potential trainings are an ideal environment to observe first-hand what is technically called the ‘Stockholm Syndrome… This is a situation in which those who are intimidated, controlled, or made to suffer, begin to love, admire, and even sometimes sexually desire their controllers or captors.”
ETC…
http://human-nature.com/nibbs/02/cults.html
I was pondering overnight over the loss of structures in one’s life and how suicide is basically an expression of such a loss. I would even go as far as saying that most forms of crime are an expression of that loss.
It’s six in the morning and this’ll be just an outline of what I’d like to explore (together if possible) before I have to run out.
Some of the ideas are:
What people in cults are desperate to find is: COMMUNITY
They are willing to sacrifice their personal integrity and the integrity of their family in search for the integrity of the community. Deep down what they are really in love with or in desperate need of, is COMMUNITY.
The fact that they are willing to sacrifice themselves or first line, their families and friends or second line to the imaginary “community” in their hearts, makes it a Cult and not a community. It inverses the ideal of community and turns it into a hierarchic structure for the benefit of those in the inner circle. The COMMUNITY in the ideal sense of the word, that is, in the most “conscious” sense of the term, would on the contrary serve to protect the individual and the family.
In Latin countries where the female has still been in many layers of society subservient to the male, it is not uncommon to find women committing suicide after the marriage breaks apart. The connection to the community comes through the male and the structure of the family. When these dissolve the sense of loss is overwhelming.
I wonder if in very developed countries such as Sweden in which the individual is much protected by the state the strength of the instinctive well being in the social order does not run parallel to an emotional well being of the community and we get a high percentage of suicides because the individual becomes stagnant, the family and the community? As if “all were well” but in fact, the individual cannot affirm himself, he simply has to play along definite set of economic structures without struggle or possibility for inner or social development? I am guessing; a lot of research would need to be done to confirm this hypothesis.
The understanding of the fundamental connections between individual, family and society or rather, community or first, second and third line of work must necessarily lead us to an ample understanding of innumerable social and individual phenomena. The fact that these “realms” of existence are in traditional sociology not closely connected accounts for our own blindness to what we are really dealing with. Our social life is but the expression of our inner life. Our political structures are the expression of our level of being as human beings just as the coherence with which an individual “acts” in relation to himself, his entourage and his community are “ALL” an expression of his level of being.
A human being is an instrument with three strings: the individual, the family, and the community. Externally tuning these strings must necessarily tune his inner consciousness exactly proportionately to internally balancing his instinctive, emotional and intellectual centre. Any work on whichever sphere, helps tune the corresponding sphere.
A man cannot come to terms with his instinctive centre without coming to terms with the world of nature, at least in principle. S/he cannot come to terms with his/her emotional centre without coming to terms with his friends and family or the inner circle of his community and a wo/man cannot come to terms with her/his intellectual centre without coming to terms with her/his community. The intellectual centre is there for the sole purpose of understanding the laws that govern the life of human development through love or social responsibility. Objective social responsibility, or the balanced practice, the dialogue between the individual and the community are an expression of what mankind has achieved through its struggles from the Priest-King to the Individual through actual life on Earth. From one angle, all mankind has been learning is to “share the cake” like a child growing up: to share Earth. The consciousness or unconsciousness with which we share the cake is the reflection of our level of being. The same struggles that the ‘I’ has to go through to acquire integrity in an individual through work on balancing the various realms of his being are socially fought in the struggles mankind as a whole has to experience to develop a balanced community. The imbalance in mankind’s treatment of nature, the development of cities and concentration of industries at the service of a few men’s economic benefit and the detriment of a huge majority of people’s well being and the loss of human, (emotional) communities; the political organization that protects these state of things or the use of the intellectual centre at the service of the instinctive centre of those in power are all expressions of mankind’s level of being.
Tuning the strings of our inner as well as our outer lives is the aim of the Fourth Way: The Way of Life and it is alive and well! The Fellowship of Friends did not manage to kill it!
I must run, please allow me to correct later.
It is very strange. I went to the erowid website and found a picture and short bio of Gurdjieff. I went to the Greenearthfoundation website and found a whole bunch about Gurdjieff.
My “magnetic center” took me to the Fellowship Of friends and Robert Burton and I found no Gurdjieff. I guess that says alot about the formation of my “magnetic center”.
ton (35),
That link was interesting too, thanks!
Elena, a COMMUNITY college is awaiting your ‘presence’ to teach a class in humanities.
I trying to connect dots: The websites I’ve visited including this one say this to me.
The Monochromatic Knight a friend of Mr. Shiek wrote an article which included quotes from a book written by John Perkins (The Confessions of an Economic Hitman). Mr. Perkins if I remember worked for the United States Government as an economic manipulator in various countries. At the present time he interacts with Ecuadorian Shamans. The Shamans of South America have a notion called “the prophecy of the Condor and Eagle.
The Condor represents the Heart, Intution and the Mystical. The Eagle represents the Brain, Rational and Material.
The Greenearth foundation website has articles about the cycles of human activity. Including passages from Gurdjieffs Beelzebub. Everything so far is pointing to a major cycle of Change.
Robert Earl Burton is pointing to 2011 as his major departure date. At the 2011 website it too talks about a human activity shift.
The “plant eaters” have been looking to the “other side” for hundreds of years and have been taught. The “art” of expectation.
And the dots? Gurdjieffs arrival for the West. Shaman’s use of Salvia, 2011, the Union of the Condor and Eagle and Robert Burton’s unfolding of self.
This blog has brought patronizing to the level of Art.
It is quite interesting to see that there are some simple facts that most of those who express their opinions here fail to understand.
It is your free choice to leave the school and it is your free right to have whatever opinion about it and express it in anyway you want and in fact you are doing it quite diligently.
Yet, what seems to be quite odd is your complete & total lack of understanding that there are many students who sincerely and deeply follow the teaching based on their deepest understanding of how important striving for presence is for them and how important it is for them to be in the best environment for practicing presence i.e. the school under the guidance of the teacher.
This is a fact. No matter how many times you will be rewinding your tapes and spill your words here, you cannot ignore the fact that students stay or join the school out of their own free will. You are all eager to totally ignore this side of the equation.
Your claim that whoever left the school is “free” and those who stay or join are in “captivity” is pathetic.
35 ton
My first 2-3 weeks in the Fellowship of Friends was one of the most intense and pleasurable experiences in my life. I was literally high as a kite, and felt flooded with a kind of pure joy. I had so much energy I could barely sleep during that time. I thought it was some kind of proof that I had found the real thing. What you say about endorphins sounds exactly right. As with all drugs, no matter how good, there is always the other shoe to drop. I spent the remaining years in the FOF becoming more and more miserable, trying and utterly failing to recapture that initial bliss.
36 elena
I’ve spent a lot of time in Sweden. You may be at least partially right about the breakdown of family and community. The institution of marriage has become less important, and many couples co-habit and have children without ever becoming married — not a judgment, just an observation. Also, religion is almost non-existent, having nearly completely died out. It may be like what Fellowship members used to say about Marin County — when I moved there from the East Coast, I was warned by more than one person that that is where people go to leave the school. They said that it was so perfect there, you got to where you no longer felt you needed the Fellowship. The Marin Center at that time had about 30 or more official members, but only like 3 ever came to meetings regularly. After a couple of years, I left the school. But I think I was on my way out anyway. After years and years of people saying how “wonderful” it was at Renaissance, when I finally got there I found the place utterly depressing and kind of bleak. I guess in the end I wasn’t “good student” material.
But in terms of suicide in Sweden, I think it may have more to do with the incredibly dark winters, and the depression that many people experience from the lack of sunlight. But those other things may well be factors.
41 psychic
“This blog has brought patronizing to the level of Art.”
“Your claim that whoever left the school is “free” and those who stay or join are in “captivity” is pathetic.”
You are expressing negative emotions, Psychic. Sounds like your lower self speaking.
“It is quite interesting to see that there are some simple facts that most of those who express their opinions here fail to understand.”
It’s all so clear once you fall under the spell of the cult. Sadly, you life people will never get it.
“Yet, what seems to be quite odd is your complete & total lack of understanding that there are many students who sincerely and deeply follow the teaching based on their deepest understanding of how important striving for presence is for them and how important it is for them to be in the best environment for practicing presence i.e. the school under the guidance of the teacher.”
The main thing this “Teacher” has to offer can be found much cheaper on countless yucky male porno websites.
“This is a fact. No matter how many times you will be rewinding your tapes and spill your words here, you cannot ignore the fact that students stay or join the school out of their own free will.”
Free will? I thought “man cannot do”?
Please keep your messages coming Psychic. I thought the blog was about to die out a few weeks ago, then your “invitation” got people actively posting again. Thanks!
41 Psychic
You’re a loser.
41/Psychic
You state that many FOF members remain so “out of their own free will.” I gather that you find odious the suggestion that FOF members’ ability to choose is compromised or impaired in some way.
I ask you, is your will “free”? Assuming you say “yes,” what process did you go through to come to that conclusion? Did you examine only your subjective sense that you were freely choosing? Do you believe that such subjective sense is the only thing you need to examine to conclude that you are choosing freely? Do you concede the possibility that something outside of your conscious awareness may influence your choices?
In confidence schemes the mark seems to be “choosing freely.” Only later does he discover his choice to have been manipulated, his vulnerabilities discovered and exploited.
40 Arthur: “And the dots? Gurdjieffs arrival for the West. Shaman’s use of Salvia, 2011, the Union of the Condor and Eagle and Robert Burton’s unfolding of self.”
You’re joking, right?
40 Arthur: “And the dots? Gurdjieffs arrival for the West. Shaman’s use of Salvia, 2011, the Union of the Condor and Eagle and Robert Burton’s unfolding of self.”
You’re joking ( I hope)?
Psychic says: ‘you cannot ignore the fact that students stay or join the school out of their own free will.’
I believe students join the school out of idealism, hope and naivete.
Students leave after regaining a part of their ‘free will’; after they have realize that they do have a choice. And then sometimes they don’t realize it and stay, which I would consider a lack of free will, or a lack of understanding they have a choice.
There seem to be many layers and ‘personal stuff’ that one has to go through in ones life. The idea that free will is taking place upon joining or staying seems kind of ludicrous to me as it takes time to develop and is a process that usually leads to leaving the Fellowship
ton,
Somehow I missed your 480 on page 29. I’m late but thanks.
Wow, good news. Psychsick almost had a thought, retarded as it was.
Nuthead (46),
My dots. When I pretend that each dot is an LSD dot carrying with it all the information related to it they add up. I believe the current consensual reality states that everything is inner-connected. Some are aware of the connectedness, some suspect and some take the dogs for a walk.
The discussion on this page has taken some odd directions.
Salvia:
Many of us took loads of drugs in our earlier years – I certainly did – partly in a spirit of experimentation, partly from a feeling of “there must be more to life than this”. Innernaut’s descriptions are quite familiar. The enthusiasm for altered states fed right in to the decision to join the FOF.
Now, decades later, my experience is that states produced by drugs, self-remembering, meditation and the like, are only temporary. They can be fun, interesting, intense but they don’t have any connection with what is known as awakening or enlightenment. Ultimately they just substitute one illusion for another.
Predictions (2011, 2012, whatever):
No one is capable of predicting the future. These theories are nothing but mind candy, fun but insubstantial. How can we possibly give them creedence after our experiences with Mr. Burton? Surely we learnt something from our years of delusion?
Rumi poetry:
It’s not Rumi, it’s not poetry. It’s the Hallmark card version of spirituality: bland, reassuring, soporific.
Eg: “Keep knocking, and the joy inside will eventually open a window and look out to see who’s there”
That “eventually” is exactly what enables pseudo-teachers like RB to continue shearing the sheep.
Reality is right here, right now – there’s nothing else, nowhere to go.
The discussion on this page has taken some odd directions.
Salvia:
Many of us took loads of drugs in our earlier years – I certainly did – partly in a spirit of experimentation, partly from a feeling of “there must be more to life than this”. Innernaut’s descriptions are quite familiar. The enthusiasm for altered states fed right in to the decision to join the FOF.
Now, decades later, my experience is that states produced by drugs, self-remembering, meditation and the like, are only temporary. They can be fun, interesting, intense but they don’t have any connection with what is known as awakening or enlightenment. Ultimately they just substitute one illusion for another.
Predictions (2011, 2012, whatever):
No one is capable of predicting the future. These theories are nothing but mind candy, fun but insubstantial. How can we possibly give them creedence after our experiences with Mr. Burton? Surely we learnt something from our years of delusion?
Rumi poetry:
It’s not Rumi, it’s not poetry. It’s the Hallmark card version of spirituality: bland, reassuring, soporific.
Eg: “Keep knocking, and the joy inside will eventually open a window and look out to see who’s there”
That “eventually” is exactly what enables pseudo-teachers like RB to continue shearing the sheep.
Reality is right here, right now – there’s nothing else, nowhere to go. Except maybe to take the dog for a walk.
Psychic (41),
I’ve been reading this blog since the beginning and only missed one or two pages.
I submit to you that what Whalerider, Bruce, Elena and others have said about the evilness of the Fellowship of Friends is even partially true then it is not a school for enlightenment, religious instruction or spirituality.
I’m not an intellectual by any stretch of my imagination, but if you want to touch swords with the “regulars” on this blog bring sanitary napkins. These former Fellowship people know how to poke they learned well from Robert Burton.
Psychic 30/41: Nice. It sounds like Psychic is speaking with his own voice for the first time, rather than spewing out predigested soundbites of a propaganda machine. I would call that progress, which doesn’t immediately need to be stampeded down as “retarded loser”. Simply insulting him terminates thought just as much as any RB cliché about the dangers of the lower self. Maybe he is at the point where he (or his comrades) can start investigating his mind, even if most people here would disagree with his opinions.
Psychic says: “[t]here are many students who sincerely and deeply follow the teaching based on their deepest understanding of how important striving for presence is for them and how important it is for them to be in the best environment for practicing presence i.e. the school under the guidance of the teacher.”
He is completely right. Weren’t we all “sincerely and deeply” at one point? I, for one, do not count myself among people who have a “complete and total lack of understanding” of that fact.
If there is anything to argue about in his post, it is the definition of “free will”. (“Students stay or join the school out of their own free will.”) Perhaps that could lead to an interesting discussion.
I would speculate that in his post, Psychic is (perhaps unconsciously) attempting to simplify the situation down to the point where he can say “Your claim that whoever left the school is “free” and those who stay or join are in “captivity” is pathetic.” In saying that, he is again right. I think that such a claim would indeed be pathetic. The question is, is anyone making that claim? Maybe that is another point for discussion.
In my opinion, it is not about officially ceasing membership in the FoF. It is about an internal shift in attitude, which often happens to coincide with formally ending membership. But not all people who leave, leave for the same reasons, and some who leave may continue to be psychologically dependent on the FoF for many years (“not free”). On the other hand, there may be people who are formally members but have a high level of autonomy and would be considered extreme “outer circle”, who are much more free than others who leave but remain psychologically dependent. And on the third hand, there are people (such as Psychic) who actually enjoy and sincerely believe Robert Burton’s teaching, and resent attempts from the outside to “rescue” them, as insulting and patronizing intolerance. In my opinion, they are right. It is patronizing and personally disrespectful to try to rescue someone who believes differently than you, no matter how deluded you feel they are.
Thank you Nuthead.
JUST A THOUGHT
This has nothing to do with effort.
This has nothing to do with understanding.
Nothing to do with process, nothing to do with praxis.
Nothing to do with lack of process or praxis.
This is not about seeing anything new, or getting rid of anything old.
This is not something the mind could ever grasp. Nor does the mind need to give up its grasping.
This is nothing personal, nor does it have anything to do with the “impersonal”.
This is not about choiceless awareness, or seeing through the ego, or self-enquiry.
This cannot be expressed using concepts. Nor will it ever be expressed in the absence of concepts.
This is not about words. Not even these words.
This is not about getting anywhere.
This has nothing to do with any kind of future achievement.
This is not about following a path: there is no path, although there may be the idea of “a path”.
This is not about reaching a higher state: there are no higher states, although there may be concepts about “higher states”.
This is not about becoming anything, although beliefs about that may arise too.
This is certainly not about “putting an end to the I”. Only an “I” would want that.
This is most definitely not about “becoming more present” – the present was never lost in the first place.
This is not about waiting for an event called liberation – that would require time, and a “me” who would eventually become liberated.
This has nothing to do with going “beyond” anything – there is nothing to go beyond, and nobody who could go beyond even if they wanted to.
This is not about enlightenment. There is no such thing as enlightenment.
This is not about awakening. There is no such thing as awakening.
This is not about enlightened individuals passing on their understanding. That’s a good story, and a compelling one, but it’s just a story, and has no deeper reality.
This is not something that could be of any use to anyone.
This is not something that anyone would ever want.
But no matter – the “me” who would want this is just a thought anyway.
Just a thought.
See? Psychic really does do good things for this blog. Almost like an ex-student posing as a blind follower to stir the pot. But either way it works.
Thanks Arthur but they’ll probably need a super title in paper or someone in high places that can override all the demands before they can recognize the value of the presentation and not make fun of it.
Innernaut 42, that is very valuable, thank you for reading and appearing to understand the connections which have taken me a year to grasp.
This evening is the only lunar eclpse this year and will not repeat for ten years,….if I understood it right on the news.
Yes Traveller and Yesri Baba, Psychic is thinking. Congratulations Psychic! It is good to see you getting a little more desperate with the lack of arguments to present even to your own self. Yes, students are in the Fellowship of Friends by their own will but what the Fellowship of Friends is actually giving them has nothing to do with what they are looking for just like when one goes to a University and realizes they don’t teach wisdom there, just fact.
In the Fellowship they don’t even teach facts, they indoctrinate you to accept blindly. Open your eyes before you really go blind!
41 Psychic
“It is your free choice to leave the school and it is your free right to have whatever opinion about it and express it in anyway you want and in fact you are doing it quite diligently.”
Attention all current FOF members reading the Blog!!!!
Here you have the truth, directly from the voice of the Fellowship, the great Oz. YOU ARE NOW FREE TO LEAVE. Yes! You can go now, class is dismissed. Time to find out if you can fly on you own power.
Nuthead (53): Now, decades later, my experience is that states produced by drugs, self-remembering, meditation and the like, are only temporary. They can be fun, interesting, intense but they don’t have any connection with what is known as awakening or enlightenment. Ultimately they just substitute one illusion for another.
I don’t know, the states themselves seem to be temporary but the lessons you can take from these states can be long lasting/permanent (if only by realizing that a different state produces different thoughts which produce different emotions, different reactions…). Also, any and all states can be used as tools to some goal, anything from MDMA to salvia, DMT or ayahuasca has found uses in psychotherapy, shamanism and general search for well-being among some sub-cultures. People like Leary, Wilson, McKenna and many others would (have) argue(d) that drugs serve a purpose in awakening/enlightenment (a short-cut if you will), Alan Watts would have said that they show you where to go (‘once you get the message, hang up the phone’). From personal experience states make some realizations easier to obtain (the work comes after the state, including the ‘realizing’), they can also strengthen personal (true) will which seems to be at the very bottom (top) of it all.
I would not disregard them, at the very least they are a kick in the butt that can turn people in a different direction. Surely, they are not a proof of anything other than that we (the modern we who want to know how everything operates) do not understand how, on what basis and why we function the way we do.
# Psychic
“One must patiently allow for time to align one’s being with one’s knowledge”.
R.Burton 18.04.77
Good luck.
60 Sheik
The principal lasting lesson for me is that “normal reality” is a construction of the mind.
But unlike Leary, McKenna and friends, I don’t see drug states as a short cut to awakening. It was extraordinary merging with the universe while on LSD, but there was no long term result other than the wish to attain that kind of state without drugs, which led to joining the FOF. After two decades of struggling to achieve this aim, I realised that the efforts espoused by the FOF/4th Way lead nowhere.
Now there’s a deep awareness that “higher states” are in fact not any more real or profound than the state I’m in now.
60 the Esoteric Sheik of Inner Confusion
Nuthead (53): Now, decades later, my experience is that states produced by drugs, self-remembering, meditation and the like, are only temporary. They can be fun, interesting, intense but they don’t have any connection with what is known as awakening or enlightenment. Ultimately they just substitute one illusion for another.
I don’t know, the states themselves seem to be temporary but the lessons you can take from these states can be long lasting/permanent (if only by realizing that a different state produces different thoughts which produce different emotions, different reactions…).
—————–
I wonder what we all/any of us mean by awakening and enlightenment. It may be different for each person, and what we believe it to be is encased in the layers of mesh and filters that we experience and interpret everything through, so I don’t see how the “truth” about enlightenment can be anything but subjective.
Having said that . . .
I would agree with Nuthead that altered states substitute one illusion for another — IF the exploration stops there.
As Sheik says, the lessons learned can be long-lasting. Changes can be set in motion that sometimes have a profound and lasting impact. If we just go back to beer and the shopping network (or Gucci and the Met), then the state was probably no more than interesting entertainment.
It’s all in what is done with it.
Does it lead to “enlightenment”? I don’t know. What’s enlightenment?
When I wake up early in the morning,
Lift my head, I’m still yawning
When I’m in the middle of a dream
Stay in bed, float up stream
Please don’t wake me, no
don’t shake me
Leave me where I am
I’m only sleeping
Everybody seems to think I’m lazy
I don’t mind, I think they’re crazy
Running everywhere at such a speed
Till they find, there’s no need
Please don’t spoil my day
I’m miles away
And after all
I’m only sleeping
Keeping an eye on the world going by my window
Taking my time
Lying there and staring at the ceiling
Waiting for a sleepy feeling
Please don’t spoil my day
I’m miles away
And after all
I’m only sleeping
Keeping an eye on the world going by my window
Taking my time
When I wake up early in the morning,
Lift my head, I’m still yawning
When I’m in the middle of a dream
Stay in bed, float up stream
Please don’t wake me, no
don’t shake me
Leave me where I am
I’m only sleeping
Lennon/McCartney
Psychic, what’s your take on the fact that Robert Burton is hang up in the past because he cannot place his vision into the future after failing for thirty five years to even experience a decent intuition? If he were truly present he would not be trying to justify himself with the past.
He’s digging dinosaurs because he has to make something up to keep students busy and believing but his level of fantasy is not nearly as amusing as the Fellowship pretends. He’s actually trying to find his own essence in that digging but at this point, he’s lost complete trace of it. It’s painfully pathetic.
Appreciated your post Sheik. If everything you said could be connected to levels of being then each experience could increase or decrease the level of being of the subject. Too many drugs or mushrooms and the I gets lost in a limbo of incomprehensible realms of the instinctive centre. They, sacred mushrooms or plants, do seem to open up realms that are already within one, the physical DNA of the world of the spirit is codified in the instinctive centre or each human being’s body. They seem to do it though at the cost of depressing the sense of self when they are as widely abused as they are in modern times.
The practice of sacred plants with the guidance of a guru today can be replaced by the practice of self remembering or presence and the acquisition of a higher state or the accessing of a higher realm through the concentration of one’s own energy or trust. The emotion of trust has its own magic. The ‘I’ penetrating its different realms both inside and outside the individual (for consciousness encompasses them both). Both the outside and the inside meet in the individual.
There’s a great difference between the realms perceived in drugs of any kind and the realms perceived by allowing the I to surface. Realms perceived by external means, no matter how sacred, will give the individual a view of natural realms, which are not for that reason less sacred. But realms perceived through the appearance of the ‘I’ give the individual a view of spiritual realities connected to human evolution. The capacity to actualize those visions reveals the level of understanding that the individual reached with the experience. A whole lifetime can take to actualize the integrity of such experiences. They finally become “the flower”, the outer expression of that individual’s inner experience.
I wonder what the karmic consequences are these days for sincerely aiding and abetting a delusional deviant?
As always, I got nothing.
Hey My Sheik
Don’t know how you found me where you did, but so glad you did, you saved me from myself. Thank you. Thank you.
Probably, no one in the world would have picked up on the implication from those three or four words, all that implication, subtle, but wrong, with all my heart I knew it was wrong. Feeling vindictive, and put upon, lashing out in the most cruel way.
Vous m’avez sauvé
Clean slate
Cake
41 Psychic
Uh, yeah, about that “log that’s in your own eye” thingie…
Obviously, M. Psychic has missed the most important fact that separates those who are in from those who are out.
Bloggers are almost all people who once said they
sincerely and deeply follow the teaching based on their deepest understanding of how important striving for presence is
However, we now have information, knowledge, experience that is denied to M. Psychic; what you understand when you leave the insane asylum of the FoF. Since Psychic still resides there, he cannot know what it is like outside but persists in trying to “correct” us. Unsurprising arrogance, that.
. . .
Interesting discussion on NPR today in which author Susan Jacoby was making a point of the difference between anti-intellectualism and anti-rationalism, that is, the belief in something that is contradicted by observable facts. For instance, it is anti-rational to suggest that 2 + 2 = 5. Sounded strangely familiar to me, I wonder why…. ?
JoelF
I’m with you Joel. I don’t believe Sidekick is “starting to think” at all. I think he’s the same fucking moron that he’s been all along. I’ll leave it to others to be magnanimous to this putz. We all gave the Flying Faerie the benefit of the doubt once too often, I’m not going to waste it on a mindless drone. If anyone here thinks Sidekick is starting to use his noodle for a change I have a very nice bridge to sell, and it’s been blessed by 44 invisible lunatics.
66 Mick Danger
At the very least, considerable psychological damage occurs – loss of the ability to think for oneself or to distinguish right from wrong, or to function normally in “life”, a general weakening of one’s being and life force, an increasing tendency to negate the reality of anything that disagrees with FOF dogma (even when excruciatingly obvious), deferral to a future lifetime of the possibility of spiritual awakening, schizoid separation from one’s true nature (“lower self”), increased tension and anxiety caused by suppression of negative emotions, acquisition of phony “good student” act, decreased ability to recognise or feel genuine emotions (both positive and negative), etc., etc.
That’s just for the average dupe. I suspect the effects are considerably more severe for those who know about RB’s corruption and try to cover it up, especially if they’re involved in recruiting new members, and even more so if they’re actively pimping.
70 Nuthead
Now, don’t hold back.
63 waskathleenw
“I would agree with Nuthead that altered states substitute one illusion for another — IF the exploration stops there.
As Sheik says, the lessons learned can be long-lasting. Changes can be set in motion that sometimes have a profound and lasting impact.”
* * *
It has been that way for me. There are things that were seen and experienced some 35 years ago that still serve as a guide. You could say they did lead me also to fof, but for me personally, they also led me back out of it. The most powerful thing in several of those experiences was precisely what Pensate un attimo said, “Just a thought”.
And thank you Pensate un attimo for that post at 56.
Psychic:
The choice to stay in the Fellowship of Friends is not free. It is very expensive. Payment is required. Robert uses fear for your soul as leverage and collateral. But the oldest trick in marketing is to make the consumer feel inadequate so they are motivated to buy your product in order to compensate. Most consumers are brand loyal.
And the choice to leave will save you more than just money.
To Psychic:
Would you explain how you justify and understand Robert’s sexual and financial improprieties? I would appreciate a rational and thoughtful answer, not just a repetion of the current dogma. I am not challenging you. I would sincerely like to hear how you explain these things to yourself.
You must have thought about this and come up with some answer for yourself. I don’t think anyone who is “in” has yet offered an explanation that makes sense.
73 whalerider
“Robert uses fear for your soul as leverage and collateral.”
* * *
I think that is one of the main answers to a question I have often asked myself and here on the blog in relation to what keeps the students ‘locked in’ to the fellowship of friends, even after perhaps being exposed to the information this blog produces.
It is fear. I remember some part inside of me cringing the first time I heard Robert say (paraphrased),
“For those who find a real school and lose it, it would have been better had they never been born.”
Boy O Boy!! That can be a pretty deep hook.
Talking about ’states’ in flatland. I would guess we would have a mighty laugh reading some of this hogwash with who we are in the foreground.
That’s one way I look at ’states’- me moving in and out of me, from background to foreground. Sure they’re all temporary in passing except for the me part.
Funny we say it is just exchanging one illusion for another. This is because we focus on and remember the illusory part of the experience and not the qualities of the experiencer.
I don’t advocate the use of drugs particularly. I kind of like what the Sheik said and the Alan Watts quote. I do think it is an experience some people should have to get an look at different ‘dimensions’.
Some of this distorted flatland pseudo neo-advaidist clap trap really frosts me.
Definitly like what Nisgaradatta had to say when asked about drugs:
“What drug did you take to get in the state you are in now?”
Thanks again James for ‘Sunrise Ruby”. I have never read Rumi. That poem is the most beautiful, concise depiction of realization I have ever read.
Nuthead 62 “It was extraordinary merging with the universe while on LSD…”
The night of my 21st birthday I went to a party some friends were throwing in the country, by a lake. I dropped a hit of “windowpane” and spent much of the evening perched up in a tree. I had the experience of “merging with the tree” and later that night I “saw god.” With the ruby sunrise I came down from the trip and the tree and I made a decision that would determine the course for the rest of my life — I reasoned that this state I had experienced is within me and as such I should be able to live in a state of “god-realization” without the use of a drug. So my quest to find “a way” to live in higher states began in earnest, I became a sort of “zealot.” Initially the search involved reading about descriptions of higher states and “methods” of attainment… I soon found a copy of “The 4th Way” which happened to have a FOF bookmark in it and the rest is, as they say, “history” — part of which has been related in the pages of this site.
You wrote: “…but there was no long term result other than the wish to attain that kind of state without drugs, which led to joining the FOF.”
I would say for me, that there is indeed a long term result and joining the FOF was part of it but as it turned out it was “somewhat” of a deviation… “states” may be transitory but that original experience still informs who and what I am, for “better” and for “worse.”
I would echo the question asked by waskathleenw (63) because it seems central to what motivated many of us here to get involved with the FOF in the first place… “What’s enlightenment?” (neti neti).
Elena 65 thanks for your insights here: You wrote in part: “The practice of sacred plants with the guidance of a guru…”
IMO the “plant teachers” are in and of themselves the “guru”– they can be seen as individual entities with their own unique character and lessons to impart… encountering these teachers is in certain ways identical to encountering another being… in other words, the experiences are not of the “I” but can be transmuted to become part of who and what one is. I would agree with you that the experiences gained from encounters of the sort under discussion are not to be substituted for development of the “I” through what we know as “working on oneself” — and this is not intended as an endorsement of using the “plant teachers” as a short cut to “enlightenment” — but I thought I might do a bit of reflecting here since I have had certain experiences with them… for what it’s worth.
76 baba: “What drug did you take to get in the state you are in now?”
endogenous considerations…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine
“How pathetically scanty my self-knowledge is compared with say, my knowledge of my room…”
Kafka
Ton: As regards BLTC, the only worry I have is this:
We are on the brink of a revolution in reproductive medicine. Decoding the human genome allows us to choose the genetic make-up of our offspring. The ethical choices we make – and the ethical choices made by our children and grandchildren – will determine how much or how little suffering exists in the world. Participating in the imminent post-Darwinian transition just means making – and persuading other prospective parents to make – informed reproductive decisions about just what kinds of (post-)human beings we want to exist. On the one hand, we can opt to retain the legacy wetware of our hominid ancestors. This choice entails condemning our children and grandchildren to a genetic predisposition to suffering and malaise. Or alternatively, we may decide that our descendants should enjoy lifelong mental health. Gradients of intelligent bliss can be the genetically preprogrammed backdrop to everyday life.
This part and some others on the website painfully remind me of the Brave New World by Aldous Huxley. The only things needed in order to arrive at Huxley’s vision of society (ie. the only ones that do not operate already) are genetic programming (of the kind that BLTC seems to be thinking of) and soma (the notion of which is also touched upon on the website).
Scary scary scary. Or am I the only one who (almost without alternative) sees it from that angle?
Reading further, I found a response to my reaction – the last point on the website is an essay on why the Brave New World is a tragic piece of literature that has slowed down research in the area of genetic engineering and the search for ’soma’ (an insane notion).
Sadly, all I could find on the website was a proposition for global happiness and the ways through which that could be achieved, I think that the term they used was ‘abolition of suffering’. It seems that they missed the point – suffering is usually a reaction to something, it is not an irrational (uncaused) phenomenon. Like pain, it is an indicator. Like pain, sometimes it breaks down and over-indicates (in my opinion, there is no reason why we should feel constant pain, such as with arthritis, or polio), equally some depression is so over-bearing that it prevents any action to resolve it. So there is space for drugs, genetic engineering (and what have you) to reduce suffering and re-balance our brains and nervous systems, but to ‘abolish it’ frankly seems insane.
Happiness is as much (in its strength) of a behaviour-influencer as sadness, anxiety, or depression. It’s more pleasurable to behave according to the feeling of happiness, it is more pleasurable to feel happy, but somehow (extreme or ceaseless) happiness doesn’t seem to be the right state for introspection, self-change, or anything else really but hedonism (the search for pleasure). Contentment perhaps, happiness no, not for life.
Having said all that, the website is a brilliant resource on legal and illegal drugs and their uses and effects.
‘pyschic’ 41:
“It is quite interesting to see that…”
About 30 years ago someone in the fof decided this phrase would somehow get everyone to drop everything and listen.
The phrase caught on and never went away.
But no one ever closes the interesting stuff by saying, “Now, the REST of what I am about to say is not interesting at all, and I have nothing particularly enlightening to impart to the conversation, so you can all relax now as I ramble on indefinitely.”
Vena (74),
You ask a fair question:
“To Psychic: Would you explain how you justify and understand Robert’s sexual and financial improprieties?”
And I really like your follow-up comments:
“I would appreciate a rational and thoughtful answer, not just a repetition of the current dogma. I am not challenging you. I would sincerely like to hear how you explain these things to yourself.
“You must have thought about this and come up with some answer for yourself. I don’t think anyone who is “in” has yet offered an explanation that makes sense.”
I agree. Because then we’d truly have to think about it, and ask ourselves what it means FOR US that Burton is living his life the way he is living it.
70 Nuthead
So, other than the loss of a few bucks and a false sense of self-importance, there’s really no downside. Small price to pay for soul insurance.
“We all need someone we can dream on….” Jagger/Richards
Tea & Sympathy will be served elsewhere.
Psychic,
I check in on the blog every now and then to see if there is a different take on things and read your comment and some of the reactions.
I wrote on this blog in the past because I wanted to understand how ex students felt and also wanted to express my own opinions and experiences.
I have intervals with the FOF, and the Teacher, and do question things at times. But Psychic, at the end of the day we understand why we are here in the FOF; and trying to make others understand this is impossible; just like it is generally pointless for former students to convince current students that we are better off without the FOF.
I would not waste your time on this blog for there are very few bloggers here that have relativity and few who can debate the issues in civil way. The norm here is to be sarcastic, ridicule, judge and attack students who wish to express themselves. This blog is the playground for former students or students getting ready to leave the school, and it is better to just let them have it totally to themselves so they can heal; for when students enter it becomes a battlerground.
I love this show. It is, in many ways, the absolute opposite of everything Fellowship.
http://www.mtv.com/ontv/dyn/viva_la_bam/videos.jhtml
“I have intervals with the FOF, and the Teacher, and do question things at times. But Psychic, at the end of the day we understand why we are here in the FOF.”
Fat Boy, this is a great example of a thought terminating concept and spiritual bypassing. You’re saying that your doubts and questioning are characteristic of an interval, which when bridged brings you again to the realization of why you are in the FOF?
No need to feel any troublesome dissonance then right? It was a pesky interval but you made efforts and it passed and now you’re back on track, intoning your sequence and listening to no “I’s” unrelated to presence.
This is what people in cults do Fat Boy, and at the end of the day that’s how they are able to stay in spite of the obvious absurdities. If you can see this tendency to bypass for what it is, you might also see how and why you are still in the FOF.
Good Luck,
Leonhardon.
If you are a student in the Fellowship of Friends and are reading this blog, even if you skip or dismiss every other post on this page, please read ‘post’ #85 by Leonhardon. Down in the middle of those doubts and the ‘intervals’ is a voice that does belong to you. That voice is trying to bring you something that is outside of the context you have been schooled in.
New Obamaphilia cult threatens to sweep the United States and turn it into a liberal zombie zone. It isn’t yet futile to resist.
Vote for the Clinton’s, reality’s razor edge.
77 ton
My experiences sound very similar to yours, even down to perching in a tree.
“I would say for me, that there is indeed a long term result and joining the FOF was part of it but as it turned out it was “somewhat” of a deviation… “states” may be transitory but that original experience still informs who and what I am, for “better” and for “worse.”
Yes, I agree. What I was getting at is:
The drug experience produced a desire for higher states, which led to the 4th Way. G. indicates it’s possible to move from being a man # 1-3, a “sleeping machine”, to becoming a man # 5-7, a “conscious being”, which I interpreted to mean a person continually in a higher state similar to an LSD high.
I joined the FOF because the students I met were actively practicing the 4th Way, or so it seemed. RB was presented as a conscious being, and to my horror now, I came to believe that was true.
Neither the drugs nor the FOF produced the desired result, and so could indeed be described as deviations. But in both cases, the experiences still inform who and what I am, just as you say.
Sheik
Just visited your site animam recro and listened to the u-tube “The Mindscape of Alan Moore”.
Thanks for that – he is great.
87 nuthead
wasn’t there something Gurdjief purportedly said about a pill, “swallowing moon” and the “wise man”?
Sheik 78 & 79
Thanks for the thought provoking posts. One take I have on what you write is — in order to appreciate and recognize pleasure and happiness there needs to be contrasting experiences and I agree, such is life as we know it. There is a wide range of inner experience and emotions, including sadness, anxiety, depression, etc, and you say that a life of extreme or ceaseless happiness would not be conducive to self-change or introspection. I don’t know about that, in the past when I used some of the entheogens, I had the extreme experience of the “pleasures of the mind” and with that experience came deep introspective insights resulting in impetus for self-change. There are many types of pleasure and happiness and although it is a fact that sadness, despair, anxiety, depression, etc, are a part of life (as we know it), if I had my druthers I’d opt for experiences on the pleasure side of the spectrum rather than the blue alternatives. I am all for “responsible hedonism” I don’t have a problem with the enjoyment of pleasure.
On the other hand, ya I agree, I have similar sorts of concerns regarding some of the thought processes and implications of the BLTC “mission.” It seems like many expressions of Utopian thought include conundrums, contradictions and the message is often delivered with the conviction and myopia of religious zealotry… that is of concern in itself. Utopian thought usually deals with radical change– that can be a “scary” prospect, it may not be so threatening for a small group to go to some remote backwater and form an “intentional community” based on their shared ideals, but when the proposed changes involve large scale social and genetic restructuring, that gets into the “scary” zone. I think that the implications of what the BLTC site is talking about regarding tinkering with the genome and human biology is just that, re-engineering life as we know it, playing god on a large scale contains “scary, scary, scary” prospects. But it is a fact that genetic manipulation and things of this sort are happening now, it is the future and the future is upon us — (that is assuming the human race can survive it’s own self-destructive inclinations).
As for the knotty practical and moral questions that naturally arise out of the subject of genetic engineering, such as — to what end and purpose? and especially who makes the decisions and controls the outcome? this is obviously hugely problematic. I don’t know how seriously the BLTC people take their proposed Utopian vision but it does appear that quite a bit of thought and research has gone into the project and they at least make an attempt to show several sides of an argument, pro and contra… although their bias and agenda is clear throughout. I read Brave New World many years ago, the dystopian world controlled via a combination of genetic engineering and drugs portrayed by Huxley would indeed be a “scary” place to live and in this respect the BLTC site balances on a razor’s edge in advocating their vision for “trans-humanity.” In the section called “BRAVE NEW WORLD ? A Defence…etc.” there is an interesting take on some of the arguments against “paradise-engineering” many of the arguments against, were raised by Huxley’s original dystopia… I think reading Brave New World back in high school colors my own feelings of trepidation regarding ideas promoted by BLTC and it’s interesting to read their critique and analysis of Huxley. I’m not advocating for the BLTC point of view, but I do think it raises some serious moral questions concerning genetic engineering and manipulation of body chemistry through the use of drugs — as far as that goes “the genie is out of the bottle” there is no turning back and IMO we will be better off with an informed examination of the difficult issues, prospects and dangers inherent to the subject.
etc.
Psychic,
Awakening as taught in the Fellowship of Friends is a self centred issue in which people have the attitude that more than an honour, it is a right and in practice a right conceded by Robert Burton only. You Poor folks. What matters is not whether you are a decent, coherent and non-pretentious human being but if Robert Burton said you have become worthy of his trust. Then you can fuck people around by ignoring them because deep down even the highest in the inner circle know that they better not fuck around with Robert who is the “one and only” in the Fellowship of Friends and who holds his grip precisely turning people against each other and leaving no one with anything but superfluous power. Or do you call power buying the balloons for the fourth of July, or the clickers? Maybe travelling like a lunatic for three days in each centre? Or counting the millions you’ll watch go down the toilet in Roberts plain tickets for the new boys? But then they all justify him thinking that they should not be wanting more power! and continue to endorse their presence to him not quite understanding exactly how they sold their soul.
To have lost the connection with one’s self and allowed a so-called teacher to interfere is not the Fourth Way but you guys might get a copper medal when you get to hell for having bared for so long in the way of the non existent fakir. In the Fourth Way all the paths might lead to Rome but you have to be willing to walk with your own feet no matter their length, because the road opens every time you trust your self enough and closes each time you deposit your being in somebody else’s ass.
Vena asks Psychic how he explains Robert’s sexual and economic improprieties and Girard would explain it by stating that consciousness is not functions and that Robert’s, Girard’s or any body else’s functions in the Fellowship can be actually very damaged but that that has nothing to do with their degree of consciousness: they are not trying to perfect the machine is a favourite indoctrinating stereotyped sentence. It closes the door to argument because if the student then says that correcting the machine would matter he would be looked at as if he were under the spell of Influence A and not Robert’s magical influence C. They then use the inverse theory against students with the attitude that they are not conscious enough considering they don’t even make enough money to go to dinner with Robert every week and should therefore avoid their desire to participate on an equal basis with Robert, Girard, the Asafs and the rest of the paid pimps, the psychics. It works perfectly on people who cannot see beyond their nose and have mortgaged their soul to Robert Burton; Too many of us for too long.
Another absurdity in the Fellowship of Friends was the eagerness men like Girard and then Asaf would claim to be looking for a permanent state of awakening with an edge that the realm of simple life was ‘not good enough’. Robert was never awake enough to give meaning to ordinary life no matter how many times he washed his teeth upside down or fucked the boys downside up. He had to separate from the body and influence A and if you screamed “the king is naked” they’d throw you out for looking at influence A instead of influence C. They still haven’t realized that in the hierarchy of real beings you can’t just present a credential from Robert Burton.
The aspect of having any form of rejection for life in its precise terms is an issue because undermining it is already a problem. People in the Fellowship have to adorn life with hierarchic robes to feel it is worth struggling to be in a high place although the things that really matter about being alive, like the company of other people, water, air and some bread, are readily accessible. One of the dramas of our times is that the instinctive struggle is not the main issue and no one knows what to do with the overdose but they definitely will not share any, definitely not rationalize where the surplus energy is going into, building useless things that one can throw away after the first use, or eat compulsively the third pizza not knowing how to rest their bowels and keep screaming because there’ll never be enough for the compulsion to find something more worthy outside of one’s self than one’s simple presence.
The quality of one’s performance in any job is one’s own struggle and the contentment for doing one’s best is more than enough but not to people who have to make OF living a complicated issue like being served by a legion of students in black, in gold plated dishes, fillet mignon’s that have to be thrown to the dogs because the teacher gets a kick out of pretending that it is work on the instinctive centre although it is only meant to aggrandize his ego. Perfectly programmed Hans H’s. and Michael M’s, beautiful adult men dedicated to stating that Robert Burton is worth serving dinner to every thirty first of December, because idolatry must live on.
And yet people wonder what and how we were indoctrinated if not by the “statement of being” (not of presence but of commitment to idolatry) of a legion of idiots who were themselves indoctrinated by the other legion of people without identity before them. Poor Robert has never been present enough to project himself into the future but has had to dig into the past to justify himself, presenting his subjects with scatological pieces, like a tree growing backwards down to Earth instead of looking high towards the sun. Who’s ever known of a conscious being that turned out to be an anthropologist interpreter, and a bad one at that too?
Ton:
“…I would echo the question asked by waskathleenw (63) because it seems central to what motivated many of us here to get involved with the FOF in the first place… “What’s enlightenment?””
Not love that clings to it self.
Maybe the understanding of the Inner Hierarchy of Beings when understanding is the irrevocable experience of having witnessed beyond doubt or the need to prove?
Maybe standing on the same spot second after second
observing the things one would so readily have gotten lost in,
only to perceive them more fully after a while as if the more one let go of them, the deeper one coloured them, the more vital and beautiful they became?
Maybe the endless trust, the unconditional humility, the unmovable pride of knowing one self to be within the hierarchy of beings even if in the lowest echelon, knowing there is no low in that dimension in which we all are?
Maybe the all encompassing gratitude which permeates
all of Air, all of Water, all of Earth and each human being?
Is it in the game of Sunset and Sunrise?
In the food we eat?
In this life that spills rapidly out of one’s naked hands and still is?
Maybe in the suffering that walks us by the hand to the unadorned entrance of sanity?
The unnecessary suffering that spills like burnt oil from one’s fading lamp?
Maybe in this consonants married to vowels with which we affirm that we wish to connect?
Maybe in this plea that does not beg; in the myriad mistakes; in the acceptance without judgement and the revolution without truce.
Maybe in this willingness to let go and go on.
_____________________________________________
I believe it was Arthur’s Post #435 on February 15, 2008, that began the Salvia divinorum thread… I am amazed, because it was on that very same day that a similar thread was caught hold of by myself concerning Ayahuasca…
_____________________________________________
Hello ‘leonhardon’ ~
You wrote ~
“…and at the end of the day that’s how they are able to stay in spite of the obvious absurdities. If you can see this tendency to bypass for what it is, you might also see how and why you are still in the FOF.”
_________________________
Something I have recently arrived at understanding a little bit about is that this “bypass” is due to a kind of painful, insatiable appetite to doubt and construct psychologically ‘no way out’, which, in my experience, is directly synonymous with deep, unresolved emotional traumas, i.e., the feeding of their condition of ‘unresolved-ness’ (for something must keep them maintained as thus, yes?) and these traumas are very likely totally unrelated to one’s history in the Fellowship of Friends…
IMO, the ’school’ resonated and resonates with the void (emotional traumas needing a place to stay, to exist and feel secure, yet IMO, ironically unresolved and unmet) within all ‘magnetic centers’, it also resonated with the void within all ‘not-so-magnetic centers’, or people who still had voids to fill with certain mental atmospheres, though kept a distance from the other side of the coin (after all, they were on the other side) ~
In other words, IMO, there are usually two sides of the coin when considering this ‘void’ or ’seeking thirst for more sand to create more thirst’; to me, it is ~
Those that are hopeful it will come to an end with the application of more wanting, more effort towards finding more things to call mechanical and difficult, more trying to dig new grave plots for new ideas and body’s of Life’s knowledge that become ‘dead’ once compared to the type of ‘food’ the ‘conscious-hope-lifeline’ eats, belonging to those faiths and fears that feed the void and keep the yearning yearned for and the painful self balled up.
It’s interesting to me, this, because such an inner process does not seem static to the mind of a ‘certain kind’ of student, yet when looked at from another point of view, IMO, it can be seen as a pinwheel stuck on top of a fencepost: the pinwheel is moving, yet, innerly it is taking itself one type of way while the person may ‘think’ it’s another and do not understand that they are in a certain kind of ‘Evolution Circle Gesture’ within themselves concerning the resolution of the void or emotional trauma: one question to perhaps ask oneself is ~ What am I doing that maintains that I cannot do? Which to me refers to the pinwheel process, which it seems all must pass through in some way or another.
The second are those who are resolved to not hope it will come to an end: those that are considering where the news is the most fantastic and most irreconcilable, as to gain more news, etc.
IMO, until a ‘certain time’, which no amount of blogging can precisely ‘trigger’ in of itself to occur spontaneously, although it can be an inspiration to move towards its discovery, the “in spite” and “obvious absurdities” will remain not so much the property of those ’still in’, that sort of ownership, IMO, will always be premature to a certain degree because it’s not indigenous to a specific point on a mysterious time line we’re all somehow sharing together…
How this ‘mystery’ works can be honored, IMO…
The “obvious absurdities” are as important to the unresolved emotional traumas within oneself as the “obvious facts” are to those who are equally moving through their soul’s journey with a sort of mist hiding the clarity to resolve those same type or category of emotional traumas, only they’re being covered or preoccupied by the nature of the ‘other side of the coin’, i.e., more good news or bad news, so long as it’s news (The Sacramento Bee).
IMO, I am not saying that the coin cannot be simply tossed into the river and one can move on without its ‘good luck/bad luck’ reputation in one’s pocket; only that getting rid of the coin is an enormous journey and regardless, IMO, as to who has which side of the coin staring at them, it may not assist ‘the blog’s ability’ to let go of the coin for it’s own purposes and emotional healing by staring too hard at its flipping through the air prior to landing, which, it often simply will not do if either side of the fence always dedicates it’s toss to be given to that inner wishing well called ‘I am not enough’, ‘why can’t you complete me?’ or ‘the void’.
There are ways to heal: ‘Grandmother’ is one of them.
_______________
L.t.y.a.
Students,
Waiting for the Fellowship’s collapse or for Burton to kick the bucket, you loose the opportunity to make your own decision and leave the cult by choice.
You will regret and never will forgive your self this weakness.
94
Hence, the creation of another emotional trauma: you will forgive yourself for this weakness and move on, beyond “regret and weakness”.
:.)
43 innernaut to psychic psychotic enabler:
(p): “Your claim that whoever left the school is “free” and those who stay or join are in “captivity” is pathetic.”
(i): “You are expressing negative emotions, Psychic. Sounds like your lower self speaking.”
Innernaut, you are my friend, and you know I stand up for friends like you. (You too, spoonful, and many others.) Please understand that I am in no way attacking you here. Your comment to psychic psychotic enabler way back when stuck with me, and I have been mulling it over for a few days. You bring up an important point. Let’s show fatboy how we “outies” debate in a civil way.
(BTW, fatboy, we display much more relativity out here living independently on our own than you will ever have…as long as you continue being dependent upon Robert and the FOF. You see, (or maybe you don’t) it takes years being out of the FOF to have that relativity. Get it?)
The non-expression of negative emotions…. Hmmm…. We all bought into it at one point in our careers. We now know that this concept has been hijacked and twisted by Robert Burton to use to silence his followers from expressing any criticism of him and depravity deemed ‘negative’, right?
Originally, the Fourth Way or whatever you want to call it, espoused the idea of not burning up ‘hydrogen 12′ from expressing negative emotions and accumulating the substance to coat the astral body. And to express negative emotions, meant that one was identified with something or someone as the case may be. So we all labored to be good student followers in a higher state of non-identification to the point where nobody cares who does what to whom, you know, like when I was fucking the teacher up the ass. If I was in a higher state, it shouldn’t have mattered to me.
Now, to you, for the sake of debate only, and for those current FOF followers who still believe in that shit, does that only include expressing negative emotions out of your mouth?…or does writing out negative emotions count as burning hydrogen 12, too? Was psychic really expressing negative emotions or just being critical? Are they one in the same hydrogen? Can one be divinely present and critical? Or is divine presence only a positive, goo goo ga ga state of infantile womb bliss sought by any means possible, including drugs?
What do you think…does writing something negative allow one to express negative emotions without identification while retaining one’s soul? What about acting out negative emotions such as in a stage play? Even though the actor may portray negative emotions through their character without necessarily being identified themselves, is he or she still burning up ‘hydrogen 12′?
What about negative thoughts? Do they count? Can one have a negative thought (as in criticism) without a corresponding negative emotion? What about giving someone a “dirty look”…can you burn hydrogen 12 through your eyes?
Personally, I feel better when I write out my negative feelings, purging them from my psyche. I feel cleansed afterward. Lighter. Relieved. Like right now.
How about you, my friend?
I think that all that ‘negative emotion’, ‘hydrogen’, ’soul’ stuff is a bunch of hooey.
Dear Whalerider,
I appreciate parts of your post for bringing light to this area of non expression of negativity.
I agree with you that somtimes situations have to turn negative to get something off our chest. Everyone expresses negative emotions. The Students and the Teacher for me are beacons or a third force to aim, remember and to strive to be better in the area of non expression of negativity. Robert’s Teaching for me has brought attention of how to work with both internal and external negativity. For me personally, I don’t feel he judges us when we are negative, nor do I think he controls it for the sake of his self preservation as a Teacher.
It is obvious for me that I need to transform negativity when I can and when this is done I go beyond the machine to trully higher realms. But most of the time I live in this negativity, whether it is expressed or not. Battling negativity, like other things will be a lifetime challenge for me because I am mechanical.
You are right I am somewhat dependent on My School and friends to help me, and they are dependent on me too, but it is not connected to the concept or having relativity IMO as you declared. I know what it is like to be out in the Real world alone. I have been in the school for twenty years but I still have drifted away from the School internally for years at a time so I know what it feels like not to have a School. I choose to be in the FOF now because it does give me inspiration, knowledge and hope to produce more consciouness. I will grant you things get absurd and contradictory in here, but at the end of the day, like I said to Psychic (paraphrasing), we know why we are here and we know what we are getting. When one is not getting what one wants then they leave. It may be a struggle either way, to stay in the school or to leave the School. Thats the way life is. For you know this, and have gone through some difficult challenges in your personal life recently.
41 Psychic
Your right in some things you say, really, like when you say that ‘it is not easy to stay in a place like the fellowship of friends’, that it takes will..
For me it never was easy to stay in the fof, i never liked most of the people, really – always found them somewhat pretentious, silly and also just plain dumb.
But sometimes i was in a state of more awareness – and for this i gave credit to the fof and robert burton and forced myself to paying him for this.
In the beginning i thought it was ‘cool’ that robert burton looked like someone from the mafia. But over time i felt that i could no longer trust the people in the fof and i send them away out of my life. (thank you God)
And you know what, the moments of more awareness just became more deep, and oneness more apparent and less a response of something or determined by something.
But for you i don’t know, 30 years in the fof is a long time – may it is a good place for you maybe not, you will never know because you will probably be in there for the rest of your life.
Let’s never forget that you and me are a piece of the some one god.
*
**
*
When I was a member of the Fellowship of Friends my teacher Robert Earl Burton passed the word along that 7 of his students would reach a state beyond my understanding.
And, that if I were not one of the blessed 7 then I would be sent upon physical death to that place in time to await a rebirth in a cycle of rebirths.
And, that the blessed 7 would only be the ones who were capable of free-willing themselves into any part of historical time to do whatever they willed.
Whereas I would be back on earth following like a sheep some intellectual judas goat more lost in language than I.
So, after 37/38 years the Robert Earl Burton school of creating 7 evolved souls should have evidence of some kind pointing to at least some of the 7 chicks cracking the egg shell of whatever it is they are cracking out of. Right?
Name one. If one can not be named then notion of cracking out is a criminal fraud and I wants my money back plus interest.
83 Fat Boy,
Thank you, I agree.
I wanted to highlight a simple fact that one can choose whether to be a member in the school or not. And that this blog is soaked with ridiculous patronizing.
That post(41) is not for those who write here on a regular basis, but for those who surf the web and come across this place.
Whalerider #96,
I know for a fact that Innernaut was being facetious with that negative emotions remark to psychic.
I, personally, have been shellacing my Astral Body with Hooey for years now and you should see the sheen.
(Hooey is now a registered trademark of The Shelleen School of Higher Whatzis, so please: don’t make me call out the lawyers.)
“From day to day
just letting it ride
you get so far away
from how it feels inside
You can’t let go
cause you’re afraid to fall
till the day may come
when you can’t feel at all
Comes a time
when the blind man
takes your hand
says: don’t you see?
got to make it somehow
on the things you still believe
Don’t give it up
you’ve got an empty cup
only love can fill
only love can fill”
–Jerry Garcia/Robert Hunter
Elena 92 Thank you for your heartfelt poetry. Poetry at the highest level is not mere rhyming and wordplay, it’s an effort to describe the ineffable.
My own take on the notion of “enlightenment” is connected to the state of “god-realization” and the fact that we can in no way completely define “God” with words… It (god) isn’t this, but also, it isn’t that either. To realize “god,” it is necessary to transcend words and descriptions of “The Divine”… though that’s not going to keep us from trying to describe the indescribable. This is not a denial, whatever “god” is, to capture “it” is an impossibility. The reality that “god” is and even the human state of “god-realization” defies containment by words… reminds me of a story about blind men and an elephant…
Whalerider 96 your post to “fatboy” etc, with all the jargon about numbers and hydrogens and negative emotions and “soul creation” etc, reminds me of something —
“…the system can be seen… as a very intricate and cleverly devised trap… I would strongly encourage anyone who has come under the influence to make every effort to think outside of that particular box…”
I’ll echo Yesri 97 “all that ‘negative emotion’, ‘hydrogen’, ’soul’ stuff is a bunch of hooey.”
HORSE-PUCKY !!!
I’ve wondered why the likes of a “fat boy” and a “psychic” occasionally pop up to post here — is it an attempt to validate and defend their life-style choices ? (Are fatboy and psychic really the same person using different “names”?). They must realize the futility of their efforts to sway or convince the folks who frequent this site… They also must know one thing for certain, there’s going to be a huge “bulls-eye” on whatever they write here in their defense of their “teacher” and “school” etc. IMO their “presence” and continued return here must have something to do with the attention they’re able to generate; they know they’re going to be a target:
“Attention is the way social primates measure status. Attention indicates status and is highly rewarding because it causes the release of brain chemicals such as dopamine and endorphins. Actions lead to Attention that releases rewarding brain chemicals.” (Quote from the previous page — you can go back if you need sources/footnotes).
Otherwise and in general, for what it’s worth, here’s one more for the “psychic fatboy” connection:
“And once hooked, the follower’s search for meaning, combined with the guru’s charisma, leads to a psychological process that guarantees obedience… once a cult has been formed by a guru, individuals who feel a lacking in life are sucked into the madness of cultism through psychological coercion, brainwashing or mind control.”
87 is newly moderated.
Ton: Thank you for your reply. I re-read Brave New World very recently so the message is still very strong with me. While reading it I remembered the first time I read it (when I was about 14) and was surprised how well I remembered it, it almost felt like the book had a very silent but very real impact on my life since the point of reading it, an impact I was pretty much oblivious of until re-reading it. But be that as it may, I still find the message of that book more believable from my personal perspective, than the view of BLTC (ie. Huxley sounds about right, BLTC scares me).
Psychic and Fatboy: I think that it is very much possible to produce tangible results in the search for enlightenment and awakening, if you don’t receive any indication of getting closer to your goals (and you can and should be very specific to yourself about your goals), of achieving something (and, no, a feeling is not enough, tangible results are the only true indication) in the next year then I would search elsewhere, you only have a set amount of time and it is up to you to use it as you wish, don’t waste it. You are in control.
For an interesting look at someone who has spent the last 10 years searching for tangible results and moving through various different systems, look at this blog: Alchemically Braindamaged. In my opinion this is one of the few people who are a living representation of ‘tangible results’ through their writing and speech.
Unoanimo: Funny you should say that, I took part in an ayahuasca ceremony yesterday. It was disappointing in a lot of ways, perhaps it was too much of a Western event (with a very technical and modern approach to it), not quite of the same kind it seems to the kind of ceremony that would be accessible through traditional sources in the Amazon. Not quite what I wished for or expected of it.
James: Yeah, Alan Moore is great, keep on a lookout for the entire interview (we only managed to find 10 minutes of it on the Internet), it’s very much worth it (more of the same lucidity and clear thought).
325 Crouching Tiger
Fuckin Hugh J…s. Robert’s ass licker.The supreme indoctrinator.
Watching the modafacar always gave me the impression that if he was to fall from his chair on the floor he would’ ve done without loosing his composture.
Do you think he is evil?Yeah HJ the canadian guy from the london centre…
103 Kid
The Shelleen sheen. I like that.
Thanks for the laugh this morning.
(You will be hearing from my lawyers presently. No one is stealing my Hooey without a fight.)
snorer/107
Have you seen HJ’s essay, published in the Fellowship Forum (I think that’s what it was called) about recognizing “outer circle” I’s? According to HJ, if one considers the Teacher to be “bizarre,” that is an “outer-circle ‘I’.” No shit, Sherlock.
#87 Hardtruth,
Now there’s a non-sequitar!
Psychic 41, 101
Dear psychic, if your post was indeed only intended for those who randomly “surf the web and come across this place”, it would have been better to directly address it to them, as you have done in the past. Otherwise we can get the wrong impression that you may be interested in some sort of dialogue with us word spilling, tape rewinding machines.
Anyway, you seem to hope that people who stumble upon these pages might somehow be persuaded, by finding your posts among all the information detailing the fallacies, falsity, degeneration and abuse in Robert Burton’s teaching and organization, to think that after all, the Fellowship of Friends may be a good place to go looking for Divine Presence.
I think you fail to take into account that all around the world, and even in Northern California, there is an abundance of teachers and spiritual groups, with better credentials and often true lineage, that offer more empowering, sound and effective techniques and ideas. They are not surrounded by controversy, and they are cheaper, too.
I can understand fatboy’s and your sentimental attachment to an organization of which you have been members for a good part of your life, but where lies the appeal for a healthy contemporary spiritual seeker? And how can he/she be drawn in by your dogmatic and rather lifeless presentations?
I personally feel repulsed by your words and attitude, but I can honestly sympathize with your predicament. It is very hard to correctly assess the value of a closed society when you are one of its subjects. For example, one can say about the good people of North Korea that they sincerely and deeply follow their leader based on their deepest understanding of how important striving for communism is for them. But of course, the rest of the world has a very different opinion of North Korea and its Beloved Leader.
Only after crossing the imaginary line back into life the utter nonsense of the perverted values one has been subjected to slowly becomes plain to the mind’s eye. Then maybe it’s time to have another talk about free will.
Kid Shelleen:
I believe there are those still mired in the FOF who would not take innernaut’s comment to psychic so facetiously. That’s actually who I was addressing, along with the other poor souls who might be surfing the web and find this miraculous place (thank you sheik!), and I’m going to go out on a limb here and bet innernaut can tell that by how much I went off on the topic. But don’t worry, you shine!
ton:
We are simpatico about the trap thing. It made Robert Burton a millionaire. I think of mircosoft in the same way. There is no way out, they gotcha, unless you choose to live off the grid.
fatboy:
You impress me, more so than psychic’s self-patronizing remarks. It may not matter to you; I am just an old, lonely geezer here, but I can tell you are sincere. I can feel you reaching out to me, and I appreciate you, too.
My highest wish is to convey this to you in a way that will set you free of your mental bondage: WE ARE NOT ALONE.
You contain a universe within you, including your own teacher who doesn’t need to suck your dick to coat his astral body in semen. You have just externalized him and given him carte blanc, because you lack the self-confidence to accept your own magnificence. It’s easier to dwell on your shortcomings and belly up to the FOF breast, if that is indeed a choice at all. Robert knows at the end of the day most people go with what is easier, just as shit flows downhill.
BTW, your “negativity” is what gets your sorry ass out of the burning house before your balls get cooked.
(yeah, I admit I am graphic, but when you think of me, think of Pulp Fiction, “…widely considered the most influential American movie of the 1990s” see: http://www.starpulse.com/Movies/Pulp_Fiction/, you know, getting fucked up the ass in one scene by some creep from Arkansas named Bob, then getting a needle rammed in your heart to save your frickin’ life because you’re overdosing on endorphin…what you took up the nose was not what you thought. Sure, we all want to be dancing forever with Uma, but life is just not like that. It’s often one long overdue earthquake after another. I know from experience. Life is change.)
So you say: “When one is not getting what one wants then they leave.” That may or may not be true. The relativity that I speak of says that one leaves the school when one wakes up to the fact that you already have everything you need. Remember, you will never get what you want, only what you need. If you need to be dependent, so be it.
c-influence wants you to suck my dick now. (just kidding)
And I predict one day there will be an earthquake in California. (not kidding)
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the salvia – plant teachers thread!
I have been reading the personal stories and followed the links, and I’d love to contribute my own 2 cents as soon as I find the time. For now, I just want to point out a very interesting french documentary on ayuhasca called Other Worlds.
Ayuhasca is one of the things that keep popping up on my radar these days. It looks like this may be a general trend…
http://www.altertube.tv/view_video.php?viewkey=7183b2e40bc464231c96
lauralupa:
Thanks to you, too. It’s an honor to be wedged in here with you. Your post to psychic was brilliantly written. It is brimming with many salient points.
“It is obvious for me that I need to transform negativity when I can and when this is done I go beyond the machine to trully higher realms. But most of the time I live in this negativity, whether it is expressed or not. Battling negativity, like other things will be a lifetime challenge for me because I am mechanical.”
Fat Boy; That’s right, it will be a lifetime challenge and relentless battle for you and you must continue to struggle until you die because you are mechanical and cannot reach the higher realms without the outside help of C-Influence who love you and guide you and are monitoring your evolution in a precise and mathematical way in return for your sincerity, efforts for the school and money.
You’re indoctrinated Sonny Jim and it’s a truly sad thing to see.
Best,
Leonhardon.
Lauralupa,
This is so well said. It is worth reading again. Too bad it couldn’t be sent out to every current member. Thanks. Vena
_______________________________________________
“I think you fail to take into account that all around the world, and even in Northern California, there is an abundance of teachers and spiritual groups, with better credentials and often true lineage, that offer more empowering, sound and effective techniques and ideas. They are not surrounded by controversy, and they are cheaper, too.
I can understand fatboy’s and your sentimental attachment to an organization of which you have been members for a good part of your life, but where lies the appeal for a healthy contemporary spiritual seeker? And how can he/she be drawn in by your dogmatic and rather lifeless presentations?
I personally feel repulsed by your words and attitude, but I can honestly sympathize with your predicament. It is very hard to correctly assess the value of a closed society when you are one of its subjects. For example, one can say about the good people of North Korea that they sincerely and deeply follow their leader based on their deepest understanding of how important striving for communism is for them. But of course, the rest of the world has a very different opinion of North Korea and its Beloved Leader.
Only after crossing the imaginary line back into life the utter nonsense of the perverted values one has been subjected to slowly becomes plain to the mind’s eye. Then maybe it’s time to have another talk about free will.
99 Fat Boy: “It is obvious for me that I need to transform negativity when I can and when this is done I go beyond the machine to truly higher realms.”
In reality, how often do you “transform negativity”? And what actually happens when you do? My experience was that occasionally I would perform the inner psychological movement known as transformation and this would very very occasionally be followed by a “higher state”. Was there a connection between the effort and the state? Maybe, maybe not. And even if there was, so what? The state was quickly gone.
You live in an imaginary world where doing sequences and transforming negative emotions leads to spiritual awakening. They don’t – you’re wasting your time.
101 Arthur: “So, after 37/38 years the Robert Earl Burton school of creating 7 evolved souls should have evidence of some kind pointing to at least some of the 7 chicks cracking the egg shell of whatever it is they are cracking out of.”
Spot on! The only FOF student who RB claims to be “conscious” is Girard. Spend half an hour talking to Girard and you’ll quickly be disabused of that notion – he hasn’t got a clue. On the other hand, I know of several people who had what might be called “awakening experiences” in the FOF and immediately left. The increased clarity of perception revealed the FOF for the fraud it is.
THE SACRAMENTO BEE ARTICLE
will be published soon.
The delay is due to various Oregon House
students who had been interviewed,
submitted statements, but then
requested to stay anonymous.
The BEE can’t use anonymous statement
(illegal/legal trouble) and is now revising the article.
They now will use the signed statements of those
who are not living on OH
Sheik 106… I think the message of Brave New World is believable because it is in many ways happening as we “speak.” The drug of choice for controlling (pacifying) the masses in the book was “soma” — control today is through visual and audio media, especially the t.v. — the effects are comparable to a drug, it tends to make one a passive “participant” (consumer) and it’s a means of mind-control to boot. One might hope the introduction of the computer and internet on a mass scale changes things in this area… but there’s a whole generation of kids growing up inhabiting these artificial cyber-worlds and “gaming” sites etc. — I sound like an old fart — but this trend seems even more ominous in certain ways than t.v. watching.
The technology of control described in Brave New World (genetic engineering) has not been applied to humans to any significant extent yet — as far as we know — but we’re on the threshold of that inevitability. Genetic manipulation of the food source is of course in full operation, global powers such as the likes of a Monsanto, and etc, are creating certain “profitable” conditions on the planet, having no uncertain negative influence over the choices and lives of people on a mass scale.
http://www.zmag.org/bios/homepage.cfm?authorID=90
This might be stretching the comparison of Brave New World to existing conditions but the various types of technology being used today for control and manipulation of the populace are related to “the ways and means” of “asset stripping” the planet; i.e. creation of a system of dependence on the manufacture and consumption of the products of technology — and they call it “progress.” An obvious example is the whole situation with “big oil” — the collusion of corporations with government leads to control and exploitation of resources and the massive accumulation of wealth by a fraction of the populace — the controllers — at the expense of the masses and the biosphere.
I agree that bringing the element of genetic manipulation into the area of human reproduction has serious and scary ethical implications, but it appears that there is no stopping it. The question is how will it be used? Since it is a question more for future generations, do we ignore it? I think most of us alive today probably don’t give the subject much thought — apparently those over at the BLTC site have, as scary as that may be. But then again this might all be moot… maybe our collective greed and hijinks will trigger a mass die-off and the humans will be forced to start from scratch and return to a kinder, gentler “leaver” culture envisioned and described by someone like a Daniel Quinn.
This sounds like the notes of a Luddite… I’ll get off the soapbox. Please excuse my excess, it’s a “snow day” — no school in Philly so I have a bit of free time here at home. Thanks again for your thought-provoking comments… the “alchemically braindamaged” site is interesting, I’m going back for a closer look. Thanks for the Alan Moore link, his insight and sense of humor is refreshing.
this is from today:
We reach Paradise one by one, by helping each other.
Love, Robert
TON
I have my suspicions about you.
For one: How you tried to expose Whalerider’ s identity
LOW LOW LOW
A lot of intellectual copy and pasting
with intent to control the discussion
Pretending to be in Philly?
…most likely in OH or in that neighbor hood
121 Dream Catcher
Not that ton needs any help in addressing your post if he should wish to, but what are your motives? I suspect you are either a bit paranoid or this is just maliciousness.
I see nothing about ton’s posts that attempt to control the discussion.
I feel pretty certain you have no idea what you are talking about, so what is it you are attempting?
Dream Catcher 121
What are you?
You’re suspicious.
Bear with me, here comes some more copy and pasting, in your own words:
“For one: How you tried to expose Whalerider’ s identity
LOW LOW LOW”
Would you mind telling me how you came to that conclusion?
What are you, an instigator? Trying to stir things up between myself and Whalerider? I have no idea who Whalerider is beyond what he’s posted on the blog and I have no interest in exposing anyone’s identity here.
(Whalerider, I hope you agree that I did not try to “expose your identity” as this person is claiming).
I have no “intent to control the discussion” as you put it… I’ve been treating the blog as more of a forum for an exchange of ideas rather than a “discussion.” Maybe that’s my mistake, but since this is not occurring in “real-time” it’s really not very conversational IMO. Sounds like my style disagrees with you… I don’t read all of the posts here, if my style rubs you the wrong way, feel free to scroll over it.
Maybe this will reassure you Dream Catcher; since I’ve had more free time than usual as of late, I’ve been spending more time blogging than is usual for me… but don’t fret, that will change soon enough.
BTW,
Why would I be “pretending to be in Philly” of all places?!!
What was it that W.C. Fields had engraved on his tombstone…
“At least it’s not Philly…”
All the best.
James,
Ya I just posted and then read yours… you got there first and I see you had a similar take on the Dream Catcher…
Dreamcatcher,
I know ton. I know whalerider too. They know me and they know each other. I think you are thinking of someone else.
ton
Yeah, I just got home from work a short time ago and was catching up. I read all these great posts from you and Lauralupa, and Whalerider and Kidshelleen and the Sheik etc., and then there at the bottom of the page was this sort of weird crappy sounding thing.
121 Dream Catcher
When I read your post I thought I must be missing something. It gave me a really creepy feeling. Now I know, it IS creepy.
Are you an agent provocateur, or just a bitter person?
veronicapoe I do know you, but if I know who Whalerider is then it’s news to me. Maybe since you know both of us, you know something I don’t in this regard? Like, whether my time in the FOF and his overlapped? As it stands and as far as I know now, based on his postings here I have no clue who Whalerider is. This is all kind of silly, seems to be the result of someone in a crappy mood looking for a target.
Laura/Sheik etc
I took Ayuhasca a couple of times in Mexico. It was quite fun once the puking stopped. There were some beautiful, very real-seeming hallucinations, and some internal psychological blockages of an instinctive nature got shifted around. For a few weeks after the second time I felt like I was being followed by a large wooden woman-like being (not LT), but this wore off, fortunately.
To summarise, it was fun and interesting but not particularly profound, rather like a jungle version of psilocybin.
“Let him who is wealthy become king; let him who has power abdicate.” Rumi
Okay, okay, we up
After a day of trying to explain the most elemental, the most rudimentary, the most basic, the most visceral, the just wanting to grab hold and never let go.
Come on, feel it, just feel it I say. Feel for the real.
All I get back is talk. Talk of reflection, introspection, explanation, evaluation, condemnation, retribution, reparation.
Hey, hey,
Instead, instead, let’s leave it all behind, let’s just jump in
right now, right now.
Whatever grooves you, whatever moves you.
Leonard Cohen, okay, well fine, love ya just the same, but really.
Funk it up a bit, know you can do it.
How old were you when you first heard it?
That song that made you believe in, well, more than geometry.
Still in us, my friend, don’t need to be a dancer, just a breathing in and outer.
Come on , come on.
We can do it, oh yes we can.
Let go. Let go.
If just for this moment, oh this moment.
Friday Night
Cake
dream catcher:
I’m with ton. I don’t feel he was trying to expose me…if anything I am guilty of trying to expose him from one of the links he provided. That was low of me, I’ll admit it. Bad lower self! (Sorry about that, ton. I think we’ve made our peace thanks to Elena.)
I really enjoyed the movie about the ayuhasca shamans that laurualupa provided from the thread ton is pursuing.
Personally, I went to a western person practicing shamanism myself for a period of time as part of my healing process, although we didn’t have to use DMT to “journey to the upper or lower worlds” as it is called. All we used was drumming and an eye mask for darkness. It was quite a trip!
Holotropic breathing, ala Stan Grof who was interview in the film next to the Golden Gate Bridge, does the trick as well, only you can stop the tripping process at any time, unlike with drugs. Interesting that the ayuhasca ritual is done at night in lieu of sleeping, the time when the subconscious is closer to consciousness anyway.
I don’t think any one person can control this discussion as you suggest. Every dog has his day here. In fact, I enjoy the anarchy. Anyone, even you, can pop in and say anything they want straight from the heart at any time. (See #87, that’s gem! I suspect that hardtruth is one of those people surfing the web that psychic is trying to recruit who found our little discussion.) But hey, there is room for all of us here, just keep putting those quarters in the Sheik’s paypal slot.
Anyway, it’s good to get your feelings and thoughts out here in the open for some reality testing. Keep posting no matter what anyone says about you. I won’t take what you say about me personally, I promise.
pensate un attimo:
Thanks for that! Welcome back.
“We reach Paradise one by one, by helping each other. Love, Robert”
Actually, Robert thinks he can reach paradise one on top of the other.
Look at the words he chooses! One doesn’t just reach paradise, hopefully one enters it. One reaches orgasm.
Also, it reads: “… by helping each other love Robert.” You have to help others love Robert. In other words, as we have been saying all along, you have to pimp for him in order to ‘reach’ paradise.
A fool’s paradise.
130 Cake please
Thank you. Great timing for me. I just took a break from having a really fun time playing my guitar, and then read your words. What a nice reminder and a nice treat.
cake please:
I am so glad you are here. Is this what you mean?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pSIbfzK2spg&NR=1
133 whalerider
Wow! Thank you. I am now an Imogen Heap fan.
A Heap Peep.
A Few Creep.
The Rest Just Don’t See At All.
Love, Wally
Where is Love in all of this?
Today, you and me, me confessing all.
You, usually so flowing,
suddenly, measured and cautious.
Not feeling it was a good sign,
what were you trying to tell me.
Words, oh how, I distrust them.
Whether they come from your lips or mine.
We go from left to right, back and forth, up and down.
And in the end you ask me,
what do you want, hope or truth?
On my knees and gasping,
whisper
hope
What truth. Whose truth
more human, than perceived esoteric
Cake
Follow on to earlier post:
Page 30 #18:
on February 19, 2008
at 11:08 am:
On the subject:
‘Life lacks the idea of looking for truly legitimate esoteric sources. Influence B does not count-only Influence C does.’
Ouspensky defining Influence B in The Fourth Way:
‘[T]hese influences B. They reach man in the form of religion, literature or philosophy. These influences of the second kind are conscious in their origin. Influences A are mechanical from the beginning. Man can meet these B influences or he can pass them by without noticing them, or he can hear them and think that he understands them, use the words and at the same time have no real understanding at all. These two influences really determine the further development of man. If man accumulates influences B, the results of these influences crystallize in him (I use the word crystallize in the ordinary sense) and form in him a certain kind of centre of attraction which we call magnetic centre.
The compact mass of memory of these influences attracts him in a certain direction, or makes him turn in a certain direction. When magnetic centre is formed in man it will be easier for him to attract to himself more influences B, and not to be distracted by influences A. With ordinary people influences A can take so much of their time that nothing is left for other influences and they are hardly affected at all by influences B. But if this magnetic centre in man grows, then after some time he meets another man, or a group of people, from whom he can learn something different, something that is not included in influences B, and which we call influence C. This influence is conscious in origin and action and can only be transmitted by direct instruction. Influences B can come through books and works of art and things like that, but influence C can only come by direct contact. If a man in whom magnetic centre has grown meets with a man or a group through whom he comes into contact with influence C, that means that he has made the first step. Then there is a possibility of development for him.
But at the same time man also lives under influences originally created in schools but thrown into the general turnover of life. These influences B are as it were a life apart. They are arranged for a certain purpose, to serve as ‘lights on the way’ The rest depends on man himself. All his interests may concentrate only on influences of the first kind, or part of him may remain interested in influences created in life, while another part may be interested in this other kind of influences. If a man notices and studies them, they may accumulate in him. The memory of these interests may begin to collect in him from a very early age and form a certain group of ‘I’s out of the many ‘I’s in him. After some time this group of ‘I’s or magnetic centre begins to control and determine his general direction in life and the trend of his interests, or of a part of his interests. Magnetic centre means looking for definite things and being on the level of certain things.
But if a man does not notice these influences, they will produce no effect. This is why people are so different. One person may be very intellectual, may have studied philosophy, art and so on and at the same time he has no chance if he has no magnetic centre. If he comes in contact with a school, he will not recognize it. And another man may be insufficiently educated, may not have read so much, may not know so many words, yet if he meets a school he may become interested at once.
[So, again, why is FoF preoccupied with (re)searching out 'truly legitimate esoteric sources' (Influences B) rather than generating Influences C? Could it be that there is no conscious, or celestial, influences passing through the Fellowship Of Friends? Hasn't Robert Burton said that when one meets a real school, magnetic centre has served its purpose and must be left behind? If so, then why is there still this dining on Influences B? Influences B serving the primary purpose of creating and feeding magnetic centre. Could it be that it serves an Influences A purpose?]
Q. What makes us different in this sense?
A. It is a combination of what we are born with and outside circumstances that makes us what we are, it is all mechanical, all under the law of accident. It is useless to deny that people are born different; but that we cannot change, in any case in the beginning. We have to take it for granted that people have different capacities, but not for awakening, this is where people make a mistake. Awakening does not depend on what is born, it depends on the magnetic centre, and magnetic centre depends on what one is interested in. One person is interested in one thing and another in another thing, but on what that depends we do not know and it will not help us to investigate this question, because it will only be theories. In our state of consciousness we can only know some things and we must concentrate on the things we can know without wasting time on the things we cannot know.
Q. Does not our magnetic centre depend very largely on mechanical causes?
A. Not quite. As I said, it is a certain combination of interests, and not only interests but also of ideas a man has acquired, a certain knowledge, a certain understanding. It all enters into the magnetic centre. It is mechanical like everything else, but influences B are different in their nature, although in the beginning they come mechanically. This is not important. The important point is whether there is interest in B influences or not. This is how out of mechanicalness comes struggle with mechanicalness. Magnetic centre helps a man to see, understand and distinguish certain things.
A man cannot appreciate the difference between ideas, he cannot say which is better and which worse, which suits him, which does not suit him, without the help of magnetic centre. Accumulation of knowledge does not help to create a magnetic centre; magnetic centre is good taste with the help of which a man can have a new evaluation of the ideas that come his way. The question is, in this stream of life, to distinguish the two kinds of influences, to feel the difference between them. If a man does not feel it, if he takes influences B in the same way as influences A, then they produce the same effect and magnetic centre is not formed. Then, there are many dangers, because some of these ideas which make up the second kind of influences are so distorted that they can form a wrong magnetic centre. Magnetic centre must be very uniform and very sane to lead somewhere, otherwise it is only an embarrassment and nothing else.
[Embarrassment is about the gist of it. Nowhere man leading to nowhere land.]
Q. How does one know whether one is under influences B?
A. Influences B are always there. They come originally from the inner circle of life, from that part of life which has become free from the law of mechanicalness, but they may pass through many stages before they reach man and may be so distorted and so disguised that it is difficult to recognize them, just as it is difficult to recognize ideas of an esoteric origin which come to us in the form of legends and myths, or even superstitions and things like that. Sometimes they have an esoteric origin and then they are influences B.
Q. Suppose one only imagines that one is working under influences B?
A. One does not know about it and one does not ‘work’ under influences B. One can be interested in influences B just for one’s own personal advantage, profession, fame or something like that; then one loses all the profit one can get from them. But if a man values them for themselves, not selfishly, not only for his own gain, if he is interested in their meaning, then he may get something from them. Definitions are very difficult and mostly wrong, for our ordinary language has so many different associations that sometimes a more precise definition spoils the possibility of understanding. For instance, you can say, though I do not guarantee that it will always be right, that the chief characteristic of influence A is that it is always selfish, whereas influence B is unselfish. But people understand these words so differently that it does not convey much. You can also say that influences A need identification and influences B can exist without identification and that if there is identification with influences B it spoils them. In fact, the more identification there is with influences B, the more they become influences A. But all this is not sufficient to explain the difference between them.
Q. Is total immersion in influences B and complete rejection of influences A a correct attitude to life? Can we altogether dispense with influences A?
A. Why should we? Influences A may be quite legitimate interests in life. If you do not disappear in them they are quite harmless. One has to accept everything that comes, only not identify. Influences A are not dangerous in themselves, only identification is dangerous. So there is no question of dispensing, there is only the question of having some interest in influences B, of not being entirely under the power of influences A. If people have an interest in these influences B, they have a magnetic centre; if not, they have no magnetic centre. After some time, with the help of magnetic centre, a man may find a school, or if he comes near one he may recognize it. But if he has no magnetic centre, he will not notice it, or will not be interested. And if he meets a school or a man who transmits another kind of influence, influence C, magnetic centre helps him to recognize this new influence and absorb it. If he has not first absorbed enough influences B, and so has no magnetic centre, or if his magnetic centre is wrong or too weak, a man will not recognize influence C. Or he may meet a wrong school and have wrong instruction and instead of becoming better become worse; instead of acquiring, lose. Influence C differs from influences B in that it is conscious, instead of being accidental, both in its origin and its action, whereas influences B are conscious in their origin but accidental or mechanical in their action. Influence C is school influence.
[You've got to ask yourself if you are 'becoming better' or 'become worse' and 'instead of acquiring' you 'lose.' Seems like a very simple and direct way to determine if Influence C is present and feeding you.]
Q. Must one be adult to recognize C influence?
A. There is no general rule about age. But one must have enough experience, enough temptations from influences A and enough time to accumulate influences B. Otherwise influence C will serve as influence B; in other words, it will do the work of a more simple instrument and will not have its full value. When people have tried and have realized that ordinary means do not satisfy them, do not give them what they want, they value influences C. But if they come before that, they take influences C on the same level as the other influences and influences C lose their power. It is very important to understand that.
Q. When you recognize influence C, is it bound to be the right one for you?
A. No, not at all, you may be right or wrong, it depends on your magnetic centre. If the magnetic centre is right, you are bound to recognize the right things; if it is wrong, you may find quite a wrong school. This happens every day. Why do so many quite unfounded and wrong schools exist, with no material whatever? Because people have a wrong magnetic centre. The case is possible, for instance, when a man with a wrongly formed magnetic centre may come upon a school which pretends to be connected with esotericism, while in actual fact no such connection exists. In this case influences which should have been influences of the third kind become influences of the first kind, that is, leading nowhere.
Q. Isn’t there a way in which one can find out?
A. Only by results. But even if people have wrong results, if they have a wrong magnetic centre they persuade themselves that the results are good. One can deceive oneself about anything. Generally speaking, there is very little chance of finding a right school and many possibilities of wrong schools, because a school must have influences C, that is, ideas that come direct from higher mind. What does ‘direct’ mean? It means coming not through books, not through ordinary learning accessible to everybody. These ideas must come from another school, and to that school again from another school, and so on, until one comes to the original source. If there are no ideas of that kind, it is only an imitation school. This does not mean that a school must be directly connected with the source, but it must at a certain time have received this kind of ideas, and then people can work on them. But if it has no ideas different from ordinary ideas, it is not a school; then, at best, it is a school on the level of B influences, that is, a philosophical or scientific school. It can be called a school only if, through it, one may be able to find the direction towards becoming man No. 4 (although there is no guarantee of attaining it). So, through the school you can find the right direction only if you have a right kind of school. If you come to a wrong kind of school you lose what you can learn by yourself.
[So, where is the Fellowship Of Friends/Robert Burton connexion to Influence C or a lineage? Supposedly there was a connexion to Rodney Collin. But, if Alex Horn is the conduit, better rethink that and go back to the drawing board.]
Q. If schools are so important, why do they not have more influence in the world?
A. Schools can only act through people who are interested in them. They can do nothing if they are surrounded by people who are indifferent. The possibility of schools influencing life is conditioned by the general attitude to schools. In order to have influence, schools must have people who are interested and who would obey. But this must come from below, it cannot be produced by schools. Schools can throw B influences into the world, but if people are not interested in them, they can do nothing. They cannot use violence.
[Much social violence has been used by Fellowship Of Friends, than one would meet with in the common scope of life, in an attempt to bring people to 'obey' and make them remember themselves. Is this the right triad? You cannot make people remember themselves with machine guns.]
In the beginning, when we spoke of A, B and C influences we did not specify what they were, we merely took them as influences. Now we must try to divide these influences into classes, and the practical side of this study will be how to control these influences, how to be receptive to certain influences and not be receptive to the influences we do not want. In other words, we must study life. Our study of ourselves will continue, but it is necessary to begin to study external things as well, try to understand them and form a right opinion about them. We will not be able to go far if we do not learn to discriminate between external events, events on a big scale, and find what is good and what is bad from the point of view of possible evolution. If we find in external events something that helps evolution, that will bring us to the question: how can individual evolution, that is, evolution of a small number of people, affect the general state of people? If we look at external life now and ask ourselves how we can regard it from the point of view of the existence of esoteric circles of humanity, we will see that the state of humanity is far from favourable, because, although we know that everybody cannot be in esoteric circles, there can exist in life definite influences coming from these circles. But we can say positively that we cannot see any signs of a control of things by the esoteric circles—life goes on by itself. Roughly speaking, man’s situation can be described like this: he is a machine governed by various currents coming from the big machines that surround him. What are these big machines? All big events, wars, revolutions, civilizations, religions, science, art, inventions of the last century— all these things produce different influences that act on man. Then in connection with schools it was explained that the possibility of escape is only in schools, that is, with the help of C influences. But what is the situation of people who do not know any school, for the possibility of school-work is very small and very rare? Does it mean that it is absolutely impossible to attain anything without school, or is there such a possibility? You remember I spoke of the three traditional ways and the Fourth Way. These four ways are called subjective ways. These ways are supposed to produce certain effects. But some people, maybe very few, may develop to a certain extent even without school-work. This is called the objective way; but it is a slow way. Subjective ways are short-cuts, they are for people impatient of ordinary slow work, even if there is a certain progress. So theoretically you can get possibilities of development living quite an ordinary life, without C influence, using only the material provided by B influences. You remember about B influences: religion, philosophy, art, science? On the whole, if people can absorb enough of this material, it should be sufficient for development, but even at best it is slow and uncertain development. All schools, all ways are for impatient people; that is why they are called subjective ways. So the answer to this question is both yes and no; some people can develop without schools and some cannot, because it is a question of different types of people. Besides, the objective way also needs conditions; it does not mean that all people who are not in the work can develop. In a sense the objective way is even more difficult than school-work, because there one has no possibility of verifying whether what one decides to do or not to do is right or wrong. In school one can verify; but
verifying is one thing and doing is another.
[Is there verification going on in Fellowship Of Friends? Or, is sequence rammed down your throat? There is, evidently, more being rammed down throats than the sequence.]
Analysis of events in life can be based on the idea of influences A, B and C. We can ask ourselves, how many influences of the third kind, that is, influences conscious both in their origin and action, do we see? We must admit that we never see them. If we are looking for something, we meet only with certain manifestations of influence B, and every influence B is surrounded by all possible dangers and all kinds of forces trying to destroy it. Many influences B are disappearing under our eyes; things that could be found not so long ago cannot be found any more. How many influences B of the past reach us? They do not live long, they have a short life, with the exception of two or three which are surrounded by such a tangle of mechanical adaptations that they almost become influences A— they survive only in this form. All mechanical forces tend to destroy them because in their origin they are opposed to mechanical forces.
[I guess that is what has become of FoF. If there was any Influences C, they have become Influences A; a selfish desire for money, sex, power, a form, an ark, a legacy, a new civilisation, my states, my presence, etc.]
Supposing that what you or someone else calls civilization destroys influences B and you find yourself surrounded by influences A, you will have no chance. And, indeed, what we ordinarily call civilization does destroy influences B. Revolutions destroy, wars destroy, civilizations destroy—everything destroys esoteric influences. For instance, schools have always been destroyed by wars; that is a well-known fact. Schools cannot be established permanently. It is not exactly that wars intended to destroy schools, they did it by the way. War is one of these institutions in the life of humanity which make work impossible and destroy schools. School-work needs a certain amount of normality in life; if life becomes too abnormal, school-work becomes impossible, and a school disappears.
[Where is the 'normality in life' that permits 'school-work' in the Fellowship Of Friends? No wonder then that the school has disappeared.]
Q. Have the people in the inner circle any control over people in the outer circle?
A. Yes, but with many reservations. The conscious circle cannot act directly, but only through B influences. Influences C can appear only if influences B are accepted and if people look for them. Men in the inner circle cannot have control over people who do not wish to know them. They cannot use violence, because it would mean a wrong triad, a wrong activity. For every kind of result there is a special triad. For instance, if people wish to acquire control, they can achieve it only in one way. If they act in another way they will get the opposite result. Wars, revolutions and so on never give the desired results, but always the opposite results, because wrong triads are used. If people of the inner circles wish to influence other people, they can produce good results only if there is understanding, and only with people who wish it. This is a useful question. Try to think about it.
[Makes you wonder what Robert Burton's inner circle thinks it is doing, no/know?]
Q. Do you mean that after coming in contact with C influences the number of chances diminishes?
A. Yes, because C influence cannot be wasted. B influences are practically unlimited; this means they are thrown into life and one can take or not take them; they do not diminish. But C influence is limited. Try to answer this question for yourselves and you will understand why the possibility of receiving C influence must be limited, because if one does not make use of it, what is the good of wasting it?
Q. How can dead people influence sleeping people?
A. In comparison with sleeping people they are very strong, because they have no conscience and no shame. What makes ordinary people weak? Conscience and shame. Besides, if people are asleep, anything can happen to them, they can be stolen out of their beds. All people in life are asleep, but not all are dead—yet. At the same time, if one cannot accept and use B influence at all, there is nothing to keep one from dying sooner or later. B influences are sent to keep men from dying, even though they are asleep. But if they reject them, there is nothing to prevent their dying. People are not equal in relation to evolution. Some can evolve, others cannot. Either they lost the possibility of evolution or they have done nothing to deserve it.
[If I read this correctly, O. is saying that dead people 'are very strong, because they have no conscience and no shame.' That certainly sounds like a description of what has been going on with FoF/REB, as presented on these 30 pages and 14444+ postings. So, who are the dead people and who are the ones with possibilities? Looks like having a conscience is a key factor in the psychology of man's possible evolution. Don't leave home without it. And, trust no one who does not have one.
Using B Influences for A Influence purposes while calling it C Influence is unconscionable.]
Wouldnt You Like To Know 137
dead people ‘are very strong, because they have no conscience and no shame.’
Absolutely. And we poor common folks are duped by the superior strenght and self confidence of these walking zombies into believing that they are actually superior to us.
We mistake dead conscience for superior consciousness!
Amazing but true.
on a different note, here is another nice Imogen Heap video…
I really like the images in this one
You’ve been walking,
You’ve been hiding,
And you look half dead half the time.
Monitoring you, like machines do,
You’ve still got it I’m just keeping an eye.
You know you’re better than this
Can’t make a start, got your heart in a headlock,
but I don’t believe any of it.
You say too late to start, with your heart in a headlock,
You know you’re better than this.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eKZsZkH_MJc&feature=related
Ton, sorry, I apologize
This is for you
IF by Rudyard Kipling
IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream – and not make dreams your master;
If you can think – and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ‘em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
‘ Or walk with Kings – nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And – which is more – you’ll be a Man, my son!
Cake Please:
Seems like only yesterday
I left my mind behind
Down in the Gypsy Café
With a friend of a friend of mine
Who sat with a baby heavy on her knee
Spoke of life most free from slavery
With eyes that showed no trace of misery
A phrase in connection first with she occurred
That love is just a four-letter word
Outside a rambling store-front window
Cats meowed ’til the break of day
Me, I kept my mouth shut,
To you I had no words to say
My experience was limited and underfed
You were rapping while I hid
To the one who was the father of your kid
You probably didn’t think I did, but I heard
You say that love is just a four-letter word
I went on my way unnoticed
Slipped forth into my own games
In and out of lifetimes
Unmentionable by name
Searching for my double, looking for
Complete evaporation to the core
Though I tried and failed at finding any door
I must have thought that there was nothing more absurd
Than that love is just a four-letter word
Though I never knew just what you meant
When you were speaking to your man
I could only think in terms of me
And now I understand
After waking enough times to think I see
The Holy Kiss that’s supposed to last eternity
Blow up in smoke, its destiny
Falls on strangers, travels free
Yes, I know now, traps are only set by me
And I do not really need to be assured
That love is just a four-letter word
Strange it is to be beside you, many years the tables turned
You’d probably not believe me if told you all I’ve learned
And it is very very weird, indeed
To hear words like “forever” fleet
so ships run through my mind I cannot cheat
it’s like looking in a teacher’s face complete
I can say nothing to you but repeat what I heard
That love is just a four-letter word.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jEE67H9ozbA
Dream Catcher thank you for the poem, it’s one I’m familiar with and appreciate… I get the message.
Wouldn’t U Like 2 Know 137
Thanks for reminding me of what I’m missing (said with a sense of relief mixed with sarcasm). I’ll repeat myself here (again) but preface the repetition by recognizing that Ouspensky was obviously a very bright individual… nevertheless… “the system” is an intricate and cleverly devised trap…
I’ve sifted through your post and pulled out bits that I think reflect some of the control mechanisms used in any standard religion or run-of-the-mill cult. One mechanism suggests that an individual needs a mediator in order to contact something higher (“god-realization” for lack of a better term). Mediation by a select group or individual guru, IMO contradicts the idea of direct contact for the individual.
I think the idea of “lineage” is just another line of horseshit designed to create a sense of validity while attempting to impress the dupes. With the right attitude an individual can learn something from any given situation… and if an organization claims to have a monopoly on, or some special claim to “the truth”– be it based on “lineage” or charismatic leadership or whatever the sales pitch might be — I personally would turn and run in the other direction as fast as possible.
The following is taken from your post and indicates some of the control mechanisms I refer to — the implication here is dependence or reliance on a “priesthood” for individual contact with “divinity.” It also implies that membership in a select and “elite” group is the only means of “evolution” or “salvation” or “redemption” — call it what you will.
“….after some time he meets another man, or a group of people, from whom he can learn something different, something that is not included in influences B, and which we call influence C. This influence is conscious in origin and action and can only be transmitted by direct instruction…. influence C can only come by direct contact. If a man in whom magnetic centre has grown meets with a man or a group through whom he comes into contact with influence C, that means that he has made the first step. Then there is a possibility of development for him…. What does ‘direct’ mean? It means coming not through books, not through ordinary learning accessible to everybody. These ideas must come from another school, and to that school again from another school, and so on, until one comes to the original source… One can deceive oneself about anything… schools must have people who are interested and who would obey.”
Ya I do agree that “higher forces” can only come by direct contact, in my mind that means cutting out the “middle man” the priesthood, guru, group — not that there’s anything wrong with assembling in groups or social organizations per se, it gets damaging when the mindset becomes that we are the “chosen few” or “us against the world” and only through association with the group will you get “the truth,” achieve enlightenment, salvation, etc.
Alan Moore makes a very clear and cogent remark in this connection, he says words to this effect: “I believe that every single individual human being, should probably make their own peace with the Universe… we’re all different emotionally, physically, intellectually, so it would be really odd if we’re all the same spiritually… religion means bound together in one belief, that’s a bit creepy and a bit unnatural…”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cam2kK7J_8k
Cake,
thanks for keeping it light in here,
thanks for reminding us of the lightness of being…
we all need that.
All the best to all
141 ton
I love it.
all praise Sweetie.
Yes, it’s salutary reading that Ouspensky guff again. I find it helpful to recall how O’s writings prepared me for being drawn into the FOF. What strikes me now about it is how he’s so obviously lying, but he does it with such conviction that a young, gullible person can easily believe it.
“C influence is limited” “Schools must have people who….would obey.” There it is, a recipe for a cult.
The one good thing that can be said about O. is that towards the end of his life he admitted he was making it all up. Let’s hope RB gets to that point too.
In defence of Hugh J.
Tall and composed so consistently to reveal the inconsistency and yet no less than those consistently un-composed convinced that there was an advantage in keeping the shoe laces lose. A shy smile that revealed more humour than none and a friend, even if he never called.
A true believer; but weren’t we all?
A competition of souls trying to win at who can idolize the Teacher more fervently and each angle, each gesture presents the rest with one’s purest impulse to expose one’s unquestioned dedication. “This is how I love the “ideal”” each student says and begs: “Could you please take it without ridiculing me? This is sacred to me” We did… too bad.
Not the Teacher: He cannot take it.
Gratitude should certainly come from his denial because the account of karma is freed from the heart if not from the pocket, which fortunately dies and no body cares how much they paid. But he allows the commitment to flow and forbids the grace of ridiculing what is not.
The gestures of love that never reached a port look at one like a hanged man from a tree but what is blind love if not a hanged man? Ten, seventeen, twenty-seven years look at you with dismay and the System confirms the fact that you were once more, simply identified; this time with the Teacher. Love is a dangerous thing. Most lifetimes are spent loving to love without knowing the loved one. If one really knew him, one would not touch him with one’s weaknesses: the statements of fear, the doubts. “I am not good enough but I love you; that should make me good enough.” And marriages grow on what the couple is not. But Robert smiles, “come, let me fuck you” How many relationships grow from the weeds of each other’s fears, the condescendence to each other’s weaknesses? And once we feel comfortable with the degree to which we’ve managed to hold the other’s suffering between our thighs, never let each other out. “Where do you think you’re going? Your freedom offends me. You must need to be loved if you want my appreciation.”
How often can we trap the whole of life in the sex of love
convinced that the flesh will redeem our absent acts
as if one could thread knots on invisible tapestries
or colour the tapestry without a thread?
The woman rests home while he goes out to third line, the “work” or any odd job equally serves and what could have been love becomes idolatry, what could have been manhood, becomes servitude, what could have been life, is not.
How can we weave in each other’s tapestry without making a mess of the threads?
Second, cease (trying) to knit into others and unwind yours first; break the needles and give the threads to invisible children to fly the kites they’ve always dreamed of being in control of, concerning the birth of. (?)
ton 141, thanks for yet another great link. and sheik too, for the one to the alchemically braindamaged blog.
I keep discovering new cool things thanks to you people!
I watched the Alan Moore video without knowing who he was, and finding out afterwards that he is the guy who wrote V for vendetta was a big blow to my “formatory” mind.
Fantastic! I love Sweetie (and Cake, and Bruce, and Whalerider, and really, all you people…)
I have just watched the Glastonbury movie, and that may be partially the reason for this loving vibe I’m feeling.
The movie also made me feel soooo sorry for our poor little brothers and sisters stuck in the stifling environment of the “School” never having any real fun together! I pray Sweetie that all you innocent souls will soon be delivered from this evil.
I know there’s been an onslaught of videos recently, but just in case you can bear one more… make sure to pump up the volume!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TkvAFYDgYlY
Uno, why do you smile?
Four letters perhaps but they stretch out in a morning that never ends
and an afternoon that never begins.
Maybe the night’ll wash over them and rest.
The dream gets opened in any page like a dried velvet flower
Why are you impregnated by the colour when it is already dry?
Better aborted than limping but pregnant even so.
Dam!
Dumb!
Keep running!
Light, lucid, lips
Open, orgasm, Om
Velvet VIDA, “VITA” “VIITAA”
Eternal, eastern Eden, Eyes.
Excerpts from a meeting Robert Burton led on February 10th:
- – -
Robert: Before we begin our meeting (…) we will discuss Alex Horne [sic, actual spelling is ‘Horn’] who recently completed his task. [Picture is shown] This is a photograph of Alex, the only one we have in our files. In fact, he is with us now; he is in the room with us. He was born in 1929, just before the stock market crash that began the Great Depression. He completed his task in Montana, which is not far away. In fact, you could have breakfast here and have dinner there, it is that close. He looks a little like Walt Whitman, does he not? He was seventy-eight. We learned of it last night during the margarita dinner. He completed his task last year on September 30th, but we just found out about it out last night — a hundred and one nights after it occurred — like the One Thousand and One Nights — meaning a fairytale ending for Alex.
There were only two or three people with him at the end. This shows us the great divide between a group and a school. He left New York and went to a remote place in Montana, where he owned some property, and completed his task “far from the madding crowd’s ignoble strife.” It really shows how important presence is, does it not? I happened to be watching a video yesterday about the Russian dancer, Moiseyev. He died at 101 and he danced from the heart. Alex Horne danced from the third eye — the cosmic dance.
Alex went into an orphanage in Chicago in his twelfth year, and was adopted by Influence C to make him an immortal conscious being. Gurdjieff said, “We are all equally beggars.”
When I left the dinner last night, I went into the vestibule, where Sarah was washing dishes by herself, like Cinderella. I said to her, “Alex Horne died September 30th last year.” She said, “That is my birthday!” I brought Sarah back into the room and mentioned to the others that Alex was “governing himself” [a pun on Sarah’s last name]. The reason I mention this is that Sarah returned from Egypt — where we were together — on Monday, and on Tuesday her car was totaled on Rice’s Crossing Road.
[Another picture is shown] This painting by William Blake shows God Creating the Universe. [A third picture is shown] This photograph of a lightning storm over San Francisco was on my desk this week. From one angle you could say it was great Influence C sending down this lightning. It could be a discreet message from Influence C: Alex Horne completing his task in Montana (Joe Montana was a quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers), Sarah, with the same birthday as the day on which Alex Horne’s completed his task, totaling her car, perhaps signifying a total disaster.
The way we received the school from Influence C was through Gurdjieff, Ouspensky, Collin, and Horne. I remember that when Alex crystallized I was a young man, around twenty-seven, but I was able to recognize that he had crystallized and had the starry world in his eyes. And I said to him, “Congratulations!” I was so grateful that I was evolved enough to see it. Last night after the dinner I went to the library and he was there with me. All I said was, “Congratulations!” — the great cycle of forty years complete! When I was told that he completed his task I just blew him a kiss. It was so spontaneous and it came so sincerely from the heart. “He is out! He is out!” — the great truth in front and the great lie behind. Sylvia completed her role on January 4th — the “mark” [a pun on her last name] meaning the four wordless breaths.
Alex Horne passed totally unrecognized, and that is fine with him. It is like Rilke, who died isolated in Switzerland. The woman attending Alex said that he knew as much as Gurdjieff. Well, he knew a lot! Did you have anything to add to that, Patricia?
Patricia: I was briefly with Alex Horne before I met Robert. When I advised him that I was leaving his group to study with a teacher in Berkeley, he asked me who it was. I said that I did not know the teacher’s name, but somehow later I understood what he meant, because he kissed me on the forehead and said, “If ever I produced a conscious being, my role as a teacher is complete.” And that was a message for Robert.
Robert: Alex brought us the sacred flame. It was he who introduced us to self-remembering. (…)
Don’t try this at Oregon House on dialup:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hI6sBdA99c8
2012 – Mayan Cataclysm – the 44th President of the U.S. has put the country under a voodoo trance. It’s already too late.
149 Ollie
Hey you members, this is the horse shit you’re paying for.
Even his little verbal idiosyncrasies haven’t changed in 23 years: “is it not”, “In fact, he is with us now; he is in the room with us”. ( and I’m sure right after his demise he zipped right over to ROBERT- unfucking believable, narcissistic, deaf dumb and blind, and doesn’t have a fucking clue), “completed his task”, “We are all equally beggars.” (isn’t that attributed to Christ?), ”
All your hard earned money and time…..goes to this clown. Think about that for more than 30 fucking seconds.
Thank you Ollie. “One has to be reminded” (another Burtonism) what the rantings of a psychopath sounds like.
From having seen several of Alex’s plays, and having met him once, and all the surrounding information available, I would venture a guess that if Alex could here RB spouting this horse shit he’s beat the shit out of him, or have it done.
Finally found it in myself today to forgive Robert Burton for his misdeeds and myself for being duped by him, so I’ll say goodbye to you all. Thanks for everything!
153 Nuthead
I, for one, will miss your voice. I admired the intensity and the insight that you often brought in your posts. I wish you well.
149 Ollie
Yes, this is classic Burton name-dropping. If you cannot speak anything of substance, drop a few names and point out some far-fetched coincidences. Of course, you really have to be there to see the pinched expressions on his face while he spouts this trite nonsense.
For those who have not heard, Robert Burton studied with Alex Horn less than 2 years and was reportedly expelled from Horn’s group for not working with Horn’s task to refrain from engaging in homosexual affairs.
I thought about leaving tonight too. But, instead I went across the road and bought A influences.
I’m drinking my A influences (on my driveway) when a neighbor shows up. A little later a motorcyclist pulls into the driveway ranting and raving about who knows what?
That’s when B influences appear. I try to talk him out of his motorcycle but he wouldnt part with it even in his drunken state.
They both leave under the influence and here I am with Influence C. Simple!
amazing – you are still all here. good for you. what’s the latest on the “article” anybody know?
Ollie
“Excerpts from a meeting Robert Burton led on February 10th:”
Very good intelligence, one question:
The Teacher: can a fruit from California really be kosher?
Void for Oregon House dialup:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6kID5W9k-Zw&
Elena:
“How can we weave in each other’s tapestry without making a mess of the threads?”
My love, only epitaphs are set in stone. Life is a tapestry that is a work in progress. Yours, mine, and everyone else’s. The pattern is not complete until your life is over…for most, the finished tapestry is buried in a box and is eventually forgotten by the living, unless you have children and pass the threads on to them. Then it hangs on the wall of the beloved to be admired in its exquisite complexity.
Trust your feelings and dive in. You will create a new beautiful pattern that never would have existed if you had let fear stop you. Life as we know it now is messy, but so is giving birth to a new life.
Ollie 149 Thanks — I think. He, or It, really is ill. Reading this slice-of-life from the absurd world created by this thing reminds me of HPD (histrionic personality disorder):
Males with HPD usually present with identity diffusion, disturbed relationships, and lack of impulse control. They have antisocial tendencies and are inclined to exploit physical symptoms. These men are emotionally immature, dramatic, and shallow. Both men and women with HPD engage in disinhibited behavior.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder
Does this make any sense? Maybe to the hypnotized…
“…a hundred and one nights after it occurred — like the One Thousand and One Nights —”
“It could be a discreet message from Influence C: Alex Horne completing his task in Montana (Joe Montana was a quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers)”
And of course to top it off, the gay innuendo… (I don’t intend to insult the gays):
“I just blew him a kiss. It was so spontaneous and it came so sincerely from the heart. “He is out! He is out!”
155 Richard M.
“…and point out some far- fetched coincidences.”
Far-fetched coincidences? How about manufactured absurdities.
It boggles my mind reading ‘daily cards’ and other such stuff as this ‘meeting’
This ”thing” as ton calls it has been running this pitiful superstition con for 38 yrs. It has not changed one jot in all this time. There are just new ‘marks’ and some poor old fools.
It is so fucking sad.
Hardtruth — what are you about? Are you a simple reactionary? A political operative? To quote the song: “Paranoia may destroy ya…” (on the other hand, just because you’re paranoid, it doesn’t mean someone’s not following you, right?). I don’t know you so I need help to understand your posts 87 & 150:
“New Obamaphilia cult threatens to sweep the United States and turn it into a liberal zombie zone. It isn’t yet futile to resist. Vote for the Clinton’s, reality’s razor edge.” and “2012 – Mayan Cataclysm – the 44th President of the U.S. has put the country under a voodoo trance. It’s already too late.”
Let me know if this helps:
http://science-community.sciam.com/blog-entry/Mind-Matters/Harvard-Students-Perceive-Rednecks-Neural/300008563
It is so sad.
That’s why it seems worth while protesting about it. What kind of friend would one be if one just let them be?
Snorer 107.
I don’t think HJ was/is evil, but he was certainly one of the more bizarre examples of Fellowship behaviour. When I first joined in London there was quite a stellar cast there… Collin and Catherine, Gideon and Karen and HJ just to name a few.
All the new students tended to get ‘looked after’ by one of the more senior people and Hugh had such a role in relation to me. He was a little like a Fellowship spiderman, swinging from building to building via huge shooting webs of esoteric ‘theory’! But he never seemed to enjoy his advantures nearly as much!
If you went to the National Gallery with him, he had to be the lecturer- going to the same paintings and giving the same lecture every time…. Just as he’d always eat the same turkey escalope and salad every night. He needed repetition to be comfortable.
From time to time you’d see some little green shoots of shyness and a sly, engaging sense of humour peeping out from behind the esoteric Mack truck.
But this was an early difficulty with the Fellowship that I never really shook off: Everybody talked AS IF THEY KNEW nearly all the time, and Hugh was certainly no exception. Very little sense of humility, of being in a position to receive something modestly… When I became too much like them, I had to leave to preserve my own sanity!
I remember a lady joined a few months after me and took a shine to HJ. I really began to like him THEN, when he had no idea how to handle her amorous advances. She was very persistent, and kept on asking Hugh how he felt about her… which usually provoked an uncomfortable pause followed by another esoteric lecture! It was quite hilarious.
But it’s hard to keep liking, or develop a friendship with someone who refuses to function like an ordinary human being… who refuses to give their ‘lower self’ any constructive role to play — not even the one it was designed for.
The effect on the Teaching House was tangible, it just created an atmosphere of emotional frigidity. Reading that monologue of RB’s on Alex Horne just now, it’s almost like he’s frozen in this crazy web of associations (Montana and SF for example) and the conviction that ‘They’ are there with him, right now. It’s like an angel somehow got trapped up in the attic, and is too afraid to come back down again… so he has to invent all sorts of incredible excuses to convince everyone else that it’s really his proper habitat. “Really it is, my dears, Leonardo’s just jogged my elbow this instant…”
Thanks ollie ollie oxen free:
(It’s OK now to bring little Bobby’s mental illness out of hiding.)
DELUSIONS OF REFERENCE involve people having a belief or perception that irrelevant, unrelated or innocuous things in the world are referring to them directly or have special personal significance. In their strongest form, they are considered to be a sign of mental illness and form part of a delusional, paranoid or psychotic illness.
They may include experiences such as:
•feeling that people on television or radio are talking about, or talking directly to them
•believing that headlines or stories in newspapers are written especially for them
•having the experience that people (often strangers) drop hints or say things about them behind their back
•believing that events (even world events) have been deliberately contrived for them, or have special personal significance
•seeing objects or events as being deliberately set up to convey a special or particular meaning
According to psychologist JAMES Alcock ‘MAGICAL THINKING’ is the interpreting of two closely occurring events as though one caused the other, without any concern for the causal link. Magical thinking invests special powers and forces in many things that are seen as symbols. Alcock notes that because of our neurobiological makeup we are prone to magical thinking and that therefore critical thinking is often at a disadvantage. This type of thinking also manifests itself strongly in people suffering from some mental illnesses.
Any comment, psychic psychotic enabler?
whalerider
U-tube!!!
Me, in Dial-up Land. Off in search of a T1 line. Then, back at ya.
mornin’ all
Cake
157 is newly moderated.
Ton: Once again thank you for the discussion.
Elena,
For me, smiles arrive and leave, similar I guess to leaves falling and tree branches budding: so much is happening these days and when I ‘think’ of ‘why’ and ‘how’, I really have to lay down and just be there, blank… I simply cannot take the questions, I am full and also not… Somewhere we simply are and our emotions occur so much more deep than the face so confusingly oftentimes ‘assuredly’ shows… I suppose when I trust that my intent really matches the feeling I have from my core, I sorta smile from within because I know that I have not killed myself, nor am I totally ‘dead’ beyond consciousness: we walk out onto our porches and stare out into starring out and there we are, there you are… Yet we’re surrounded by others doing the same thing, because we can and there’s some obscure meaning in simply being, in saying ‘I’ or lying motionless and blank… It’s ‘obscure’ because it’s not for our human mind we have in our pocket to figure out in total, it simply ‘is’ and that’s got to be enough tonight.
Ollie 149
“Stalin, Tito, Dimitrov, three stars who shine forever, three hearts to beat together ” .
Bulgarian socialist party slogan. Each time when the Party changed its relations to one of these leaders his name and his ’star in the sky’ had to be replaced by another one in the respective party.
“The language of the totalist environment is characterized by the thought-terminating cliché. The most far-reaching and complex of human problems are compressed into brief, highly reductive, definitive-sounding phrases, easily memorized and easily expressed.”
Robert Jay Lifton, “Thought Reform and Psychology of Totalism”
“Rose, oh pure contradiction, joy
of being No-one’s sleep, under so
many lids.”
Rainer Maria Rilke’s epitaph
“Language is a virus from outer space.”
William S. Burroughs
So, I can’t resist adding my six bits to the thread of comments on the “Horn” monologue…
It is quite interesting to see that Robert, like many of his students, these days apparently gets his info from this blog: the news of Horn’s death was given here by Spoonful on february 7, two days before the margarita dinner.
Fascinating to “hear” our little Lord Voldemort casting his spell once again; it reminds me of my last dinner at the Academy, some fourteen years ago, when for the first time the following conscious mentation occurred in my brain while listening to my teacher talk:
“WTF?”
This latest speech is a wonderful example of dysfunctional communication. I love the way Robert uses the catchphrase “completed his task” instead of “passed away”, or “shuffled off ‘is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin’ choir invisibile” to create a vague area of meaning around Alex’s death; he actually likes it so much that uses it three times in the first paragraph (eight times total, perhaps there is an esoteric meaning to this). I personally remain a little puzzled about what the task to be completed was, since apparently his task as a teacher was completed many years ago when he produced the conscious being Robert Burton (notice here the peculiar Fellowship idea that conscious beings “produce” one another).
And apparently Horn has indeed joined the bleedin’ choir of invisible celestial beings, so the two great men can meet again, one in the flesh and the other out. Noble and wise words are then uttered by these conscious beings:
“Congratulations!”
“He is out! He is out!”
Now this is a really poignant moment and a powerful image, for sure it shall be recorded in history… I can already envision the Galleria fresco, with Robert blowing a kiss to the Whitmanesque Alex and the goat patiently waiting by their side…
I just wonder why Horn didn’t pay his visit to Robert a little earlier; for sure it would have given the conscious teacher an edge if he had been aware of his death before the rest of us. A perfectly plausible explanation would be that Alex himself only found out that he was dead upon reading the news in his ex-students’ blog. It may sound strange, but bizarre are the ways of the celestial realms.
I found all the little meaningfully meaningless non-sequiturs so “typically Robert”: Montana is so close that “you could have breakfast here and have dinner there” (?), Alex “was born in 1929, just before the stock market crash that began the Great Depression” (??) “the Russian dancer, Moiseyev. He died at 101 and he danced from the heart” (???), “Congratulations!” — the great cycle of forty years complete!” (???? a latest addition to the numerology craze?)…
But the true madding masterpiece, IMO, is this associative thought sequence:
“This photograph of a lightning storm over San Francisco was on my desk this week. From one angle you could say it was great Influence C sending down this lightning. It could be a discreet message from Influence C: Alex Horne completing his task in Montana (Joe Montana was a quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers), Sarah, with the same birthday as the day on which Alex Horne’s completed his task, totaling her car, perhaps signifying a total disaster.”
If I was Sarah I’d be really relieved to know that the totaling of my car was charged with cosmic significance. It makes the lonely washing of dishes more bearable, too. This Cinderella has truly found her Fairy Godmother. Too bad that all these portentous omens occurred only months after Horn’s death. Are they a new kind of retroactive prophesy? I am unconvinced, and thus stuck with the pressing dilemma: what is the real esoteric significance of Sarah totaling her car? Total disaster, yes, but for whom? From one angle you could say that when great Influence C sends down his lightning, SOMEONE is going to get hurt, and that’s all that really matters, am I right or am I right?
BTW, for someone who counts so much, Robert is fairly inaccurate: from September 30th to February 9th there are actually 132 days (I counted).
But we don’t need to be so picky now, do we?
“Alexander, our older brother
Set out for a great adventure
He tore our images out of his pictures
He scratched our names out of all his letters…”
http://www.cnettv.com/9742-1_53-5988.html
Just to dispell some of the ‘magical thinking’…
If the date of numbnuts death was Sept. 30th then the meeting in question would have to have taken place on Jan. 10 to be 101 days after that insignificant occasion (maybe significant in that there is one less scumbag roaming the planet).
Therefore ’shit for brains’ couldn’t have found out about it from the Feb. 7 post to weave his delusional little spell for his little zombies in training.
Somebody shoot me for counting those days.
ton:
“Hardtruth — what are you about?”
Dear Tom,
I want to recognize the fact that you quoted me nearly perfectly and commend your photogenic memory. I can hear your shutter swishing away. I opted not to explore your web contribution due to boredom on my part, sorry.
I do want to point out that as of today Ralph Nader (I’m not sure how the Teacher will interpret this momentous turn of events) is now in the race to keep the first “liberal political televangelist” from stealing the White House through the use of just the sort of platitudes that seduce our citizenry into well-meaning but ultimately destructive cults. Good luck to Ralph, again. He once took 90,000 votes from the sky hugging Gore allowing Bush to steal the election. Ralph’s a civil genius. At this point the general election will likely not be just a cake-walk, it will likely not be just another party:
(this link is useless in Oregon House)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xzORu1dqEE0
I’ll shoot you Yesri, but only if you shoot me in return!
Man, the things we do for love these days…
hardtruth 171
Your version of past political outcomes is debatable. Many argue that Bush’s first theft of the presidency was the result of the shenanigans in Florida, you know, with little brother Jeb the governor and secretary of state Kathleen Harris, etc, and then a hurried and unconstitutional decision by the supreme court. The Ralph Nader angle was a diversion, a smokescreen to take attention away from the facts — seemed to work on you. Many say the second Bush theft of the White House was orchestrated through more low-down tricks using Diebold… the point here is: a thief is a thief, I think we can agree?
As for “how the teacher will interpret events” who gives a flying fuck?! You exhibit a general air of disdain in your posts (BTW it’s not “Tom”), so I’m curious as to why you still refer to that thing in Oregon House as “the Teacher”?
170 Yesri baba
“shit for brains” aka Princess Twinkle Toes
hardtruth:
You may enjoy this if you haven’t seen it already:
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=1122532358497501036
(Bernays BBC series part #4of 4)
Regarding:
Ollie #149
on February 24, 2008 at 12:21 am
Excerpts from a meeting
Robert Burton led on February 10th:
Thank you for that intel.
WOW! What no license plate shock/interpretation/creations to further bolster the delusional meaning of things? Somebody must be slipping up. Or, maybe, that has become a thing of the past. (Perhaps, if you get too good at manufacturing license plates, imaginarily, you might actually be on your way to really BE making license plates like at Folsom Prison. Or, could it be the plate in Robert’s head that is speaking the dribble? Or, maybe it’s the dribble in Robert’s head that is speaking the plate? Oh, I am sooooo confused. Let’s wait and see what the intel in Sacramento Bee will BE.)
Here’s a riddle:
What do Bill Clinton and Robert Burton have in common, besides being from Arkansas? They both will have maniacal sex with anything that moves, or does not move. See any satyrs or centaurs around Oregon House?
This link good in O.H. by dialup:
ArkansasBob · THE BURTON ASSRAM:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ArkansasBob/message/5
But don’t try this at home, kiddies, especially without parental supervision.
Thank you Uno for your reply, so glad that you are well.
Hi Whalerider,
It may be worth noticing that Robert’s “magical thinking” is closely connected with the “causal link” of how he has set up his personal interpretation of the Work and how he experiences it. I agree with you that Robert is mentally ill. At the same time I would suggest that he is being as sincere as he can be. That is what is so dramatic about the situation inside the Fellowship; That they are all extremely sincere. They’ve been deviating their inconsistencies for so long that they no longer have the capacity to recognize them as such, hence; the mental illness. The hasnamuss or the individual who clearly separated into two different personalities: One doing the work and the other one abusing other people. I don’t think we are going to understand what happened to Robert unless we start conceiving of this division as a reality. It is very interesting to observe clinically because all the ‘symptoms’ that you mention are verifiable.
That is one aspect of what you present but there is still another aspect in what traditional medicine may consider madness and what we can understand as higher states. Since what matters is not only the Fellowship and what they are willing to do with themselves but us, who do not want to distort the whole of the work because Robert failed at it, then I would challenge the statement that interpreting everything as connected to one, is just madness.
In the few high states that I experienced, specially at the beginning, it was clear that what gives meaning to the external world in which we happen to find our selves in is one’s level of being. I connect with this blog in my level of being like the rest of us. I eat what I eat with my level of being and the fact that I can barely understand the effort that innumerable people have had to make, directly or indirectly for me to taste that food, and not only the people but natural forces like where the vegetables were planted, by whom, how did the people live, the supermarket, who transported it… it could be an infinite list for the mind but for a higher state it is a fact, an instant realization without words and the fact that I cannot perceive these things in a low state does not mean that when I do, it does not connect me to the unity of the whole world and its lack of boundaries. It’s wholeness.
There is a dialogue of the world towards an architect, a painter or a beggar and each with his own being interprets it accordingly. It is not that “Delilah” was written for me but that no matter where I find it, it’ll belong to me. If one transposes the same example to the other centres then it is clear that in high states the instinctive centre would interpret the language of nature, the intellectual centre, the language of laws and the emotional centre the language of spiritual value. What we lack today, what we really don’t understand much about is the spiritual or emotional value of everything that happens to us, so we walk the streets like zombies getting wet under a rain that does not clean us and thinking there is nothing worth looking at out there. The streets and the woods, the parks and the rivers, have each their own language and they could always tell us something if we were there to hear it. They are each the living manifestation of laws.
It is not that one’s ego flatters itself thinking or feeling that the angels are sending one messages, as Robert interprets it; it is that in tuning into the different realms of existence, one perceives reality from one’s being and not just from one’s mind, from one’s wholeness and not just from what might be convenient to keep the idiots before one paying another thousand dollars. What they are paying now instinctively might one day allow them to make the effort from their being: trusting themselves and not having to pay somebody else to interpret reality for them.
May the weaving in each other’s life be clearer each day…
Trully enjoyed: “My love”. Thank you.
Thanks Ollie (page 30/149), for that chilling glimpse of “divine wisdom”.
Like many perhaps, my initial reaction was one of grimly amused horror at how batshit crazy Burton has become.
Then I had to ask myself if it was really much different from the “signifyin” he done be doin’ since day one.
From an old blog entry:
“In 1971, Teacher and a student were riding in a relatively new Dodge Dart along Highway 1 near Carmel. Teacher was 32 years old at the time. They were listening to a baseball game on the car radio. As the odometer of the car hit the mileage number “1954, they passed a mailbox which had the name Thompson on it. Teacher indicated that this was a shock, as in 1954, Bobby Thompson of the New York Giants had hit a famous home run in a playoff game (which Teacher had apparently heard on the radio). 44 miles later as the odometer hit 1998, the mailbox on the side of the road showed the number 41211. Teacher indicated that THIS was also a shock which meant that California was going to fall into the Pacific Ocean in 1998 on April 12th at 11 am. Burton believed that the oil company that used the advertising logo “UNION ‘76″ was a sign from C Influence that he, Burton, would “crystallize into a man number six” in 1976″
For me, the primary difference is only that I had erected a multi-layered wall of rationalizations which allowed me to live with the old-school psychotic ramblings with only an occasional embarrassed groan and shake of the head: by the time the new-school schlock hit the stage, the ball bearings on my rationalization machine were worn out, and I was forced to actually hear the words.
“Second verse, same as the first” – Herman’s Hermits
In my post Page 30 #137:
on February 23, 2008 at 9:08 am
I quoted Ouspensky extensively from the Fourth Way. I did not post that material because I believed in all of it, but rather because it seemed relevant to the quotation from a daily card and also because this discussion could possibly benefit from some material from the Fourth Way past.
In particular: It may very well be possible that Influence C can be found without a teacher or a school. However, it is likely very difficult, especially when the dominance of false personality rules the awareness. Lineage and connexion, therefore, is not an absolute necessity. Magnetic centre, and other higher parts in a person, rightly formed, should be able to recognise Influence C, IMHO.
I do not completely agree with this sentence: ‘In order to have influence, schools must have people who are interested and who would obey.’ In specific, the ‘who would obey’ part. Might be a wrong triad. Better they should ‘agree’ because they have an understanding of what would be right action, IMHO.
I do not completely agree with this sentence: ‘But C influence is limited.’ Access to finding C influence maybe limited but C influence being limited, no. C influence is as unlimited as the universe. (However, even the universe is limited. It is said to be curved and therefore enclosed and even light bends traveling through it so that the light eventually returns to its origin – vast though it be.) And, one person having it does not prevent others from having it. Gurdjieff at one point alluded to C influence being like other materiality, like gold or other valuables. I do not go for that. The more one person can have of it, the more it is possible that others can partake of it. C influence in one’s life is only limited by one’s being to absorb it; and the more one absorbs it the more being one has to absorb it. C influence defies the parameters of materiality, like: supply/demand; law of diminishing returns – the more you have of it, the less there is to be had; it cannot be horded – the idea that, if I have it, you cannot have it; or, someone, somewhere, somewhen, is the only source of it – as if it were franchised or patented; and/or other idiotic concepts of selfishness. IMHO.
C influence is simply the influence of a teacher who knows. It is not some kind of cosmic ray or ethereal substance. Everything about The Society of Friends makes me nauseaus.
Wouldn’t You Like To Know 180 — I would tend to agree with your clarifications and interpretations (within the context of the material) although it seems a bit like counting the number of angels on the head of a pin… splitting hairs as it were. My own personal inclination as far as “the system” is concerned; just let it go… throw-out the baby with the bath water — but that’s just me and I may be an ignorant fool… whatever floats yer boat.
Whalerider, I posted links to the Century of the Self material a while back — I think it’s important and worth repeating over and again. Thanks for that.
Re: “magical thinking” IMO, in a sense ALL thinking is a sort of “magic.”
Sheik, here’s one that reminded me of a previous thread….
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18885211
All the best
What You Mean to Me
A little way back, there was talk about, maybe, diluting the intent, the message with the emotional, with the way too personal, the definitely less than esoteric, the less than purpose driven.
But, this place, this place is totally emotional, totally personal to me.
Sometimes we say too much, sometimes not enough.
But often, more than enough to make those closest to us gasp.
Even in our most guarded attempts,we reveal ourselves to each other word by word, well turned phrase by well turned phrase.
Becoming transparent.
But here, no need for fear, trusting,
that there is so much reading between the lines
that exposing pain and frailty, will fall on just the place it should.
So much confusion, so many collapsing worlds,
and suffering, too much suffering.
And with all that, “What possibly could you have been thinking?”
Solace, connection, compassion.
Thanks to all
just a curbsider
Cake
p.s. thanks whalerider
Test
#180: Regarding C influence; ‘the idea that, if I have it, you cannot have it; or, someone, somewhere, somewhen, is the only source of it – as if it were franchised or patented; and/or other idiotic concepts of selfishness. IMHO.’
Hallelujah! Right on! How dumb could one get to think otherwise? Alright, we were all pretty dumb, including myself, depending on how hard we fell for it. The Specialness Clubs. Yes, there are many, and the FOF is one of them.
Manchurian Candidate:
http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2008/images/02/25/art.obamasom.ap.jpg
“Alex brought us the sacred flame.”
Indeed, mr Burton, indeed he did.
All the following is excerpted from A History and analysis of the Sharon Gans group, also known as “The Work”, at
http://www.rickross.com/reference/theater/theater13.html
Reading the materials on the Rick Ross page I have come to realize that Horn and Gans and company were/are more sophisticated than Robert, with some extra brainwashing techniques in their bag of tricks. I am only posting the bits that seem to me more equivalent to brainwashing “Fellowship style”. Sorry, this is going to be long.
“A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g. isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgement, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of leaving it, etc) designed to advance the goals of the group’s leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community.” (West & Langone, 1986).
In the Gans group it would not be possible for someone in the group to bring up such a working definition in class and then use it as the starting point for a rational, open inquiry into the difference between the “school” and a cult.
Similarly, it would be impossible to have an open dialogue about manipulative techniques, which might take into account the following three “Ds” of cultic manipulation as identified by Margaret Singer, Ph.D. noted author, cult expert and Professor Emeritus of the University of California, Berkeley.
Deception
Recruits brought into the Gans group are essentially duped to believe that the group is benevolent and will enrich their lives. For example, by somehow advancing their spirituality or increasing their self-esteem and/or sense of security. As a result of this deception and the systematic use of highly manipulative techniques of influence, recruits come to commit themselves to the group’s proscribed ways of thinking, feeling and acting; in other words, they become members or converts. There is also deception in the recruitment process, which will be described later.
Dependency
By gradually isolating members from outside influences, establishing unrealistically high and guilt-inducing expectations, punishing any expressions of “negativity” and denigrating independent, critical thinking, the group causes members to become extremely dependent upon the group’s compliance-oriented expressions of love and support.
Dread
Once a state of dependency is firmly established, the group’s control over a member’s thoughts, feelings and behavior is strengthened by a growing dread of losing the group’s psychological support, regardless of how much the member must comply with the leader’s increasingly debilitating demands.
Milieu Control
Lifton states, “The most basic feature of the thought reform environment, the psychological current upon which all else depends, is the control of human communication. Through this milieu control the totalist environment seeks to establish dominion over not only the individual’s communication with the outside (all that he sees and hears, reads or writes, experiences and expresses), but also – in its penetration of his inner life – over what we may speak of as his communication with himself&In order to be the engineers of the human soul, they must first bring it under full observational control.”
The Gans group seems to exercise “Milieu Control” as follows:
Typically, no member of the group may speak to anyone outside of the group regarding the content of the ideas, the classes, or any personal interactions that have taken place within the group. Members are in particular asked not to discuss any of the group ideas with family members who are not members of the “school,” unless they are somehow involved in a recruitment effort with that person. Books used in the classes are most often covered and/or hidden when not in use.
Group members themselves are not allowed to speak with each other about the ideas or about each someone’s life, outside of their weekly meetings or without a “teacher” present, unless they are give permission.
Persons outside the group are often described as “asleep in life” and therefore unable to hear and/or comprehend the ideas and lives of group members. This characterization tends to isolate members through their lack of meaningful personal associations and communication with all those who are “asleep.”
Vacations are discouraged, except around the rare occasions when classes do not meet. That is, one week around Christmas, and one week in the summer. Unexplained absences are frowned upon.
Members that break these rules and speak of the group to outsiders are often disciplined and/or expelled.
According to the rules once a member leaves the group he or she is shunned and virtually any meaningful communication or contact is usually cut off. Members are typically not allowed to speak and/or associate with former members.
The Demand for Purity
Lifton states, “The Philosophical assumption underlying this demand is that absolute purity is attainable, and that anything done to anyone in the name of the purity is ultimately moral. In actual practice, however, no one is really expected to achieve such perfection. Nor can this paradox be dismissed as merely a means of establishing a high standard to which all can aspire. Thought reform bears witness to its more malignant consequences: for by defining and manipulating the criteria of purity, and then by conducting an all-out war upon impurity, the ideological totalists create a narrow world of guilt and shame. This is perpetuated by an ethos of continuous reform, a demand that one strive permanently and painfully for something which not only does not exist but is in fact alien to the human condition.”
The Gans group seems to exercise the “Demand for Purity” as follows:
The world is divided into those who are “asleep,” which is most of humanity and those who are awake or striving to awaken, which are essentially the members of the “school.” The asleep are not awake and fully realized and therefore when they die they will be dissolved. Only the elect, the members of the group, have the possibility of immortality.
Students and even teachers are continually berated with the idea that they are “asleep,” “in life” and/or “filled with negativity.” Such assessments often occur when people question the desires or statements of Sharon Gans. Group members may be denigrated or humiliated at almost any time and told they are not pure enough to reach the next rung on the ladder of consciousness.
The group espouses a ladder of mankind, which denotes higher levels of purity. This includes Man Numbers One Two and Three, who are all “asleep” and not really human, to Man Number Four , Five, Six, Seven, and Eight, who show varying degrees of consciousness and superiority. Jesus is said to have been a Man Number Eight. Sharon Gans suggests that she herself is a Number Six and that Gurdjieff and Ouspensky were likewise people of much higher consciousness.
The chief technique of intimidation is for the group leader to reveal some intimate detail of weakness or guilt that a member has revealed in confidence to a sustainer or some other special friend. This is evidence of a personal failure regarding purity and may be anything from a childhood betrayal, an act of bullying to an unsavory personal habit like picking one’s nose. No item of behavior is exempt from criticism.
Sacred Science
Lifton states, “The totalist milieu maintains an aura of sacredness around its basic dogma, holding it out as an ultimate moral vision for the ordering of human existence. This sacredness is evident in the prohibition (whether or not explicit) against the questioning of basic assumptions, and in the reverence which is demanded for the originators of the Word, the present bearers of the Word, and the Word itself. While thus transcending ordinary concerns of logic, however, the milieu at the same time makes an exaggerated claim of airtight logic, of absolute ’scientific’ precision. Thus the ultimate moral vision becomes an ultimate science; and the man who dares to criticize it, or to harbor even unspoken alternative ideas, becomes not only immoral and irreverent, but also ‘unscientific.’”
The Gans group seems to exercise a “Sacred Science” as follows:
“Modern science” itself is frequently chastised and ridiculed for failing to see what the group sees. It is frequently referred to as “pseudo-science.” That is, the group’s belief system is instead a more precise and absolute body of knowledge, which people should follow rather than this “pseudo-science.”
Interestingly, a respected teacher in the past also wrote an entire book showing that modern science in fact supports the teachings of the group, which ultimately proved that the group’s views somehow possessed “absolute ’scientific’ precision.”
The group’s teachings are said to be truly “objective,” while all other ways of thinking, including democracy, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism, are described as “subjective and flawed.”
The group favors esoteric diagrams that require sacred geometry to unpack. The enneagram, a figure of linear geometrical figures inserted in a circle, is said to contain all possible knowledge. Of course, only the group’s historic leaders and current leaders are said to be capable of interpreting this diagram properly.
Loading the Language
Lifton states, “The language of the totalist environment is characterized by the thought-terminating cliché. The most far-reaching and complex of human problems are compressed into brief, highly reductive, definitive-sounding phrases, easily memorized and easily expressed.”
The Gans group seems to be “Loading the Language” as follows:
Phrases like “inner evolution,” “balanced man,” “man asleep.” “self-remembering,” “self-observation,” “negativity,” “higher centers.” and the like are supposed to encompass virtually all the possibilities of human thought. About fifty phrases seem to be used to describe almost any human situation.
Refusal to use this phraseology is referred to as an example of “negativity” or “being asleep.”
The oldest members often scarcely seem to speak any other phrases, and may lapse into silence if addressed in other terms.
Doctrine over Person
Lifton States, “This sterile language reflects the characteristic feature of ideological totalism: the subordination of human experience to the claims of doctrine. This primacy of doctrine over experience is evident in the continual shift between experience itself and the highly abstract interpretation of such experience – between genuine feelings and spurious cataloguing of feelings.”
The Gans group seems to exercise “Doctrine over Person” as follows:
Anyone who rejects the group’s loaded language is said to be suffering from personal difficulties and to have “fallen asleep.” Such a person is often expelled from the group and people are admonished never again to speak to him or her, because to do so might somehow jeopardize that person’s chance of ever awakening again.
From time to time, members develop serious illnesses, some of them appear to be induced by the stresses of group membership and/or simply getting sick. If a member were in ill favor with the leader, it might be suggested that the illness was a result of their negativity. If a member were in good favor, it may be suggested that the illness was a test, both for the individual and for the will of the group, all of whose members would be instructed to pray for that person.
People who reported bad things in their life, such as loss of a boyfriend or girlfriend, loss of a job, sickness of a parent, conflict with friends, may be told that they should expect nothing else “in life,” because everyone there “is asleep.” People who report good things in their life, getting a good job, getting engaged, resolving a conflict with friends, are expected to credit the group’s advice and guidance regarding achieving these ends.
The Dispensing of Existence
Lifton states, “The totalist environment draws a sharp line between those whose right to existence can be recognized, and those who possess no such right…The totalist environment – even when it does not resort to physical abuse – thus stimulates in everyone a fear of extinction or annihilation. A person can overcome this fear and find ‘confirmation,’ not in his individual relationships, but only from the fount of all existence, the totalist Organization.”
The Gans group seems to exercise “Dispensing of Existence” as follows:
When a member leaves the group, all members are instructed never to speak to him or her again.
A person “asleep in life” is not worth much more consideration than a domestic animal. Such a person, according to the group, is incapable of authentic thought or feeling.
A person leaving the group is told that they essentially now have ceased to exist. The mild form of this is that they have “given up the struggle and are content to be asleep.” A more extreme expression would be that they have abandoned the true way and will “die like a dog in the gutter.”
The greatest fear of the majority of longtime members and the greatest weapon in the hands of Sharon Gans, seems to be that at some point she may tell them to leave. And then all their privileges and friends, they are told, would be lost.
How much does the Gans group cost?
The Gans group has between 150 and 200 members, between its two main locations in New York and Boston. Each member is charged a monthly tuition of $200-400 dollars a month, which amounts to $2,400-4,800 annually. New recruits often pay $400 a month. Tuition alone comes to more than $700,000 collected by the group annually.
This income is apparently controlled by Sharon Gans. Little if any of this money seems to cover any expenses associated with the functioning of the group, as other fees are assessed separately to cover such costs.
Each New York member pays an additional $85 a month “maintenance” fee to cover the cost of renting the space where classes meet. That amounts to an additional $1,020 collected from each member annually. The maintenance fee collected from the members easily yields more than $125,000. But the annual rental fee for the meeting space is about $70,000.
Members who participate in the retreats (and that comprises the majority of members) pay additional fees. Those who go to monthly retreats at the recently purchased complex at Pawling, New York pay about $200 a month for that privilege. Individually, this is an additional $2,400 a year, plus an additional $20 a weekend for a “transportation fee,” that curiously doesn’t seem to go to actual vehicle owners and/or drivers.
Those who go to the annual summer retreats at the complex in Montana pay $60-80 a month during the year to cover its property taxes, plus about $800 per person to participate in the ten-day long retreat. Of course that does not include roundtrip airfare (about $650 coach), plus about $75 each from many members to cover the First Class roundtrip airfare for Sharon Gans. Individually, that is an additional $2,245 a year.
In recent years, every group member “contributes” $5 a month to a “retirement” fund for Sharon Gans, and another $60 a year fee for a storage space used to hold theatrical sets and props.
Many of the group members are “strongly encouraged” to take acting classes from a friend of Sharon Gans in Manhattan. This costs $200 a month.
A writing class taught by yet another friend of Sharon Gans costs $100 a month.
A yoga retreat, once again given by someone with connections to the group’s teachers, cost $400 to $900.
There are also required contributions for special classes such as the Christmas class and occasionally “classes outside of class” such as square dances organized in Croton Falls, New York.
It is unknown if Sharon Gans or her “teachers” receive any financial consideration for such referrals. And the group has no published independently audited financial statement, which is distributed to all its members showing how the money is used and what payments are made to Sharon Gans and/or her family members, associates and friends through salaries and expenses.
Add this all up and you can see that a single student could easily be paying out $6,000 to $10,000 a year in disposable income. This does not include other expenses such as taxis, babysitters, money spent recruiting, and all kinds of incidental donations made in response to frequent requests.
Furthermore, students who work on special projects called “lines of work” are rarely reimbursed for their expenses, whether it is photocopying something for teachers or other students, or entertaining potential recruits by buying meals at coffee shops for special motivational meetings.
For many students, this represents the limit of their financial capability. Because the bulk of a member’s free time is also consumed by the demands of special lines of work, retreats, sustaining, and recruiting efforts. The group can potentially consume a member’s life.
In a short while, a new recruit becomes a valuable asset, providing not only a steady source of income, but also a source of free labor, available at virtually any time for any purpose for their supposed spiritual development.
In addition, Sharon Gans receives very significant contributions of cash and stocks from wealthy individuals who have become part of the group. Their wealth is often derived from large family inheritances and trust funds. These wealthy individuals often acquire special status. They may be given special attention and praise. Such treatment can be seen as a tool used to cement their loyalty.
Sounds familiar, bobby?
169 lauralupa
“I just wonder why Horn didn’t pay his visit to Robert a little earlier; for sure it would have given the conscious teacher an edge if he had been aware of his death before the rest of us…”
LOL — Brilliant! Where was Alex during those “101″ days that were really 132 that somehow relates to 1001 nights??? Must be that esoteric math they use — too hard for a simple life person like me. And since when is Montana close to California? You could also have breakfast in California and dinner in New York, for that matter. BFD.
185 lauralupa
That was edifying, and painfully familiar. This in particular:
“Thought reform bears witness to its more malignant consequences: for by defining and manipulating the criteria of purity, and then by conducting an all-out war upon impurity, the ideological totalists create a narrow world of guilt and shame. This is perpetuated by an ethos of continuous reform, a demand that one strive permanently and painfully for something which not only does not exist but is in fact alien to the human condition.”
Effort, effort, more effort! Or…maybe not. Ouspensky admitted late in life that it was all a scam, but he was too comfortable duping rich devotees to stop himself. In the end I think he bet it all on “eternal recurrence,” a far-fetched theory that has become fact for suckers everywhere. Man number 7 come 11 — everyone’s a loser!
“If a woman gets in the way of your evolution, kick her in the teeth and move on” – Alex Horn
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,6379,page=3
Ouspensky might have admitted whatever you like but the System is not Ouspensky, nor is one’s work the work of losers.
One taste of reality is worth a lifetime of suffering and there is really not that much suffering but the one one is able to carry. There’s no point in giving one more than one can carry and there is much pride in getting used to one’s load.
There are no losers but a work in progress. Life as we conceive it is but a glimpse of it. It is all there just as it is, heaven and hell at the same time, the difference is in one’s conception. In one’s state of being.
Hope opens in one’s own will
and becomes gratitude
pride
and humility
as one stand’s on it.
Pride is in mankind’s sense of self.
How can one ever be small again?
How can anyone be confused by sizes?
How can one stop affirming?
Gratitude is in the Air.
It breaths in one’s soul.
I lie;
Air is an attribute of gratitude,
it breath’s from man’s being.
Earth is the means,
everything must be planted on Earth.
One must make sure love grows
in each of one’s gestures.
In one’s ‘No’ as much as in one’s ‘yes’.
Love grows sideways!
Only from man to man.
It is the love between men
that makes everything else grow.
But we don’t know the beauty
that makes the trees so tall
and the butterflies fly.
We take it for granted and love without pride.
Life does not touch us,
it rapes us.
We do not love it,
we ignore it.
It’s the misery what wakes us,
the shame. But one must hold the whole world with compassion to be able to see one’s own misery without shame.
It’s that vision what brings the humbleness. Every Saint carries the devil within. They carry it so gently that it makes them look like saints. It is the carefulness with which they carry it that their compassion develops.
There is only the evil that one is willing to allow. A simple ‘no’ is enough to displace it but one spends a lifetime saying ‘no’ saying ‘yes’.
And when one has stood long enough in those borders then they are one simple rope between life and death, the seen and the unseen, and the seen rests like a bird in the nest of the unseen, always protected, always embraced, always, always held with infinite compassion as it runs wildly against its own death-birth.
Love is nowhere more infinite than in your hand.
psychic:
Mental illness or conscious being?
I am reminded of something from the awesome Ayuhasca Shaman documentary I saw…
(hope you saw it, too, here is the link again if you didn’t: http://www.altertube.tv/view_video.php?viewkey=7183b2e40bc464231c96 THANKS again lauralupa! And yes, THANKS ‘ton for “Century of Self” that whole series was awesome too!)
…of one the PhD talking heads describing the difference between an insane person with psychosis and a mystic with spiritual visions.
He said the difference is that an insane person keeps to himself and doesn’t go around sharing stories about his psychosis with others and the mystic does.
If I were to play the devil’s advocate here (literally), you could argue that Bobby is therefore not insane. He is quite content to share his delusional system to anyone who will pay him and doesn’t hold back for the sake of decorum.
But in fact I have to disagree with the talking head. In my six years experience of working in mental health facilities, I found that insane people were just as willing to share their delusional system with you as anyone else, quite sincerely I might add, if you care to listen to them and for free.
Is that the real difference then, you have to pay the mystic?
Oh well, so much for being an advocate for the devil, eh psychic?
Hello Whalerider ~
Yes, it was a great video Laura found… thank you Laura.
_______________
For me, it’s not so much that there’s a system inside either a labeled ‘insane person’ or a ‘teacher/mystic’: actually it’s pretty rare that all the stuff whirling through people’s minds, whether they’re ‘here or there’ can be sorted into a system at all…
So, once it is shared, IMO, the system is one thing, its heart-connectivity ability is another, belonging to its innate intent and its intender…
Do you remember the Shaman in the video saying ~ “I have met people who are not in Time or Space, but only in the Present.” ? (He was speaking of human-angels, BTW, not untouchable, un-medium-ed-angels.)
Similarly, another shaman stated that he must be careful of his diet, what he says, does and that he and his people are connected to a whole sense of their history and purpose…
The ’system’ Robert Burton molded pretty much contradicts everything shamans and spiritual healers are about, which, IMO, is no small thing since that’s at the core of all of the four ways, i.e., awakening to becoming The Healer and not a more precise ‘Starving Baby’:
it shows where ‘his version’ of the Fourth Way is headed, away from the heart, healing and being careful and straight back to referring to himself and those referring only to themselves; this people do billions of times a day as well, either by purchasing this year’s model of new car (each year) or by marrying a symbolic solution to the last marriages real problem, yet, this too is necessary, just as it’s necessary for a tree to grow so to produce another tree before ‘it’ dies, before or after its ‘last’ harvest:
so, Robert Burton is not to be singled out of the human ‘race’ by any means: only it would be good of someone to some day allow him to notice that, although there’s a race, there’s no finish line and the checkered flag, is the flag and it never flies at half mast.
There’s something in everyone that’s disappointed or vacant in some unfinished, round and round way;
it is the environment which surrounds the sensation of having a void within us that most often leads us to such places as The Fellowship of Friends, so to build more skyscrapers to keep filling the horizon, to make the reality of the rising and setting sun a little later in showing itself each day and evening…
Robert Burton ‘belongs’ to every human being on the planet, just as George Bush ‘is’… IMO. It’s not to say that we are not responsible for ‘exorcising’ certain intents, yet, with the same power of ‘exorcising’ I hope we can also learn our lessons and become more and more less desperate when such pythons slide across our sweaty bellies as we find ourselves laying face up and frozen on a jungle floor, seeming indefinite; because it’s that panic which rises up in us that points to an unresolved distrust, an unresolved anguish, fear and pain, of whom the python is only a ’symbol’ of… it belongs to the same realm where affirmations exist and work within, only it’s from the other side of that ‘moon’.
Perhaps we’ve stood in front of the mirror image long enough and can stop working on it and step through the looking glass (?)
There’s a little desperation in everyone and each of us have and have had our own ways to make this desperation the driving force in our lives, as if, just because the fact that it knows how to drive somehow convinces something within us that it too, knows the best and ‘right’ places to take us, to deliver us…
Yet, it’s been my experience that it owns all the gasoline stations, hotels, beach resorts and planet: too, it knows nothing, other than the intent belonging to the fact that it is a mechanism which ‘drives’, like a merry-go-round, similarly perhaps to the one that spun the earth its first time.
We orbit a sort of ‘void’ within ourselves and rarely go into it purely, without referencing the satellites and other crutches: it’s ok though, Time and Space have a reason and seem to also have an Emotional, tactile context connected to the growth of the soul and its ‘touching’ of others in a healing and loving way.
The Fellowship of Friends and Robert Burton in so many ways, ‘is’ that atmosphere surrounding that ‘void’, keeping it ’safe’ and impregnate-able:
IMO, die to the atmosphere and one can perhaps get into that void, the vacant soul-placenta and stand up, learn how to walk without the affirmative ‘legs’, ‘ground’ and ‘destination’.
And when the python does slide across one’s belly, try to smile, it may actually be there protecting you from the lion in the bush, who’s been contemplating the having to go through its 700 pound detour sign, to get to you for some time now…
Pythons are not the trouble, it’s the trouble-maker that’s the trouble: it’s one of the phenomenon ‘who’ surround and ‘protect’ the void, our ‘birth-place’… It keeps oneself whirling in the external world space kicking, screaming, laughing and joking, all the while these two emotions play mysteriously as ‘hinges’ to the door called ‘I’…
We turn the doorknob and the hinges move, there’s an opening, yet, the person now in the room has not ever touched the door, it’s always been so easy for it to get out of the way, so long as it’s not locked…
And when the day comes that we do find it locked, we figure its someone else’s house and we’ve forgotten where we built ours, so we become ‘homeless’ and begin searching for a foster home (The Fellowship of Friends)… Such places serve their part, indeed, too, so do so many atmospheric institutions we identify ourselves with… even the Blog.
IMO
__________________
l.t.y.a.
Lauralupa, 185 — I don’t know about “bobby” but it sounds all too familiar to me. I’m reminded of the saying about “hindsight being 20/20″…
I suppose the one “positive” I carry with me from the experience is a healthy cynicism and a radar that steers me clear of involvement with anything resembling a “cult.” It’s an understatement to say the FOF experience was the most difficult of life-lessons, many did not come through it… but those of us who did survive, probably feel that something precious was taken. Speaking from my own perspective, money and labor are the least of it, the time I’ll never get back, friends, spouse, a child, innocence, dreams… these pieces of a shattered soul were scattered behind me when I left.
I’ve wondered about why I continue surfing and posting here — picking up the “shamanic” theme again, this quote comes to mind:
“Shamans say that the soul has such a longing for wholeness that it will recreate the conditions that caused the soul loss, because it hopes that another opportunity for healing will result in our integrating these fragmented aspects of the self.”
The bit above about “20/20 hindsight” has to do with awareness of the soul wound… revisiting this site has helped deepen that awareness for me. Consequences of being unaware might look like this:
“Unaware of their soul’s wounding, the person will change jobs but end up with a similar boss, move to another city and wonder at how she ended up with neighbors who are just like those she left behind, or divorce the abusive spouse and end up in an identical marriage. If the shaman can discover the source of the original wounding, he can heal it, and break the self-destructive patterns.”
181, 186 and 189 are newly moderated.
Dear All,
Saw two videos with Robert, one of Nov 2007. The subject was the square, and an Italian dinner from Oct 2005. I recommend seeing them with open eyes and ears. BE PRESENT to them.
Nov 2007. Robert sees al kinds of esoteric meaning in a square, illustrates this with pictures on a screen and does very many hand gestures. He sees 4 fingers all over ( even if there are 5 or 3), and knits this info all together. 50 people follow him, without much enthusiasm and try to grasp this “esoteric” knowledge. There is hardly anybody with a smile on their face…..
He mentions a person who recently dies and confuses his name with another J-m-s.
Next par: the video of 1995. This was when the fellowship was still flourishing and having an aim and something was going on. Robert babbles away, is the center of the attention, makes strange facial expression that seem not very congruent with what he is saying.
To make a long story short, I lost several illusions.
3 times nothing, is still nothing.
I invite everybody to see it for themselves. It might be a rude awakening, especially when you are in the fellowship.
Love to all of us, we need it.
195 Another Name
Where can a person view these videos if they’re not a member?
Another Name 195
Yes, IMO at this point all we need is love and we can beat this collective monster together.
Namaste
I can feel a difference,
today, a difference.
All of us in a our towns
fearing God like a mistress.
We lay on our box, in the sun,
watching you and your women.
Sat up and blinked when you appeared
So pale you were nearly clear.
Later I stumbled to my bed
all alone in the branches.
I laid in the dark
thinking about all of my friends and their changes
And I do not know if you know just what you have done.
You were the sweetest one I have ever laid my eyes upon.
It’s a beautiful town with the rain coming down,
Blackberry, Rosemary, Jimmy Crack Corn.
You’ve got the run of the place now that you’re running around.
And may kindness, kindness, kindness abound.
In this hour of our lives,
our effortless plenty.
How do we know which parts of our hearts
want what with such base generosity?
Taking so many photographs,
so amazed, we’ve never seen a baby so newly born.
And the bulbs do flash as bright as morning;
this crowd keeps on gathering like an electric storm.
The phantom of love moves among us at will,
each phantom in us has got an angel.
So confused, like the wagging ghost tail of a bulldog,
kindness, kindness prevails!
Kindness prevails!
Ties and rails, ties and rails,
fall into lines bearing kindness.
Where will you go if not here;
What will you say when you write to us?
And this is a world of terrible hardship
everywhere on our search for words to set you at ease.
But there in the looking glass a kite is soaring
still in my roaring heart and my trembling knees.
Clean as a breeze, bright as a day,
all of the people gather to say,
Sweet Esame, sweet Esame.
Oh, oh, oh…
I believe love will always surround you,
brave as a bear, with a heart rare and true.
But If you are scared, if you are blue,
I’ve prepared a small song for you
Sweet Esame, sweet Esame.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bS1cNK94tUw
I had a somewhat sad experience yesterday. I approached a current and long time member in a restaurant and asked if I might join her with my coffee, which I did. I had the aim to connect as human to human in a simple way. I had no plan to challenge or confront. I had known this person for many years. She could barely look up from the table and seemed to be full of shame and confusion. I felt kindly but not willing to pretend that there had never been a connection. There was some banal small talk. I tried asking about things that this person had enjoyed and been involved in but the responses were artificial and awkward. I finally asked how the school was for her now. She replied that things were better with people no longer sitting on the fence. I said that I was not referring to the people leaving but wondered if the information being given out made sense to her. She said that she didn’t think about it, that what was happening was just the next step. I gently asked how she could know if it was the next step if she didn’t think about it. She replied that if you are walking along you just continue to take the next step in the direction that you happen to be facing. She added as a further explanation that it was hard and that she always learned something from the direction of the school. I felt so sorry for her that I declined to ask how it was “hard” and for an example of waht she thought she had learned. These answers were rather pitiful and I could see in her eyes that she was lying to herself and to me but I felt that she had lost the possibility to let go of these illusions and I did not want to hurt her by leaving her with nothing. I felt sad that there was nothing accessible behind the fear and lying to connect with and I wish I might have helped her somehow.
186 hardtruth
We have our own resident moron.
brucelevy:
“We have our own resident moron.”
Apologies to Oregon House:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Vn6sE0kcPaI&
There is talk about the Lewis Carroll School becoming a charter school which would be open to the community at large. Some people think this would be a good thing. I have some serious doubts. Not because a charter school would not benefit the area but because this one will carry the legacy of it’s origin in the Fellowship. The influence from Robert Burton on the existing administration and faculty has a long and perverse history and I can’t see how something new and healthy can arise from this sordid past.
186 Hard truth
I do not know what your “agenda” is, but in the interest of fairness and as a tribute to “external consideration”, I have gathered a few other apparent reasons to dislike Obama from the great World Wacko Web.
#1 – He will nominate Osama as head of national security.
#2 – He took cocaine with Saddam in Chicago
#3 – His wife does not like our country, or any country.
#4 – Never been in the military.
#5 – He does have an unusual name, does he not (?), and does have an exotic background (through a Manchurian Candidate prism), does’nt he?.
#6 – He lacks the experience and brilliant insights of our current president.
#7 – He supports meeting with – (as opposed to, sever-) the heads of terrorist states.
#8 – He wants to get rid of your right to own a handgun (or 2, or a big one).
#9 – He is calling for the repeal of the law preventing gay marriage at the Galleria.
#10 – He is for a trillion-dollar tax increase and a 125% hike on teaching payments.
#11 – He says he is not a republican.
#12 – He rode camels (unconfirmed)
#13 – He eats with chopsticks
#14 – He plans to grow an afro once in the white house
#15 – All federal employees will be made to wear dashikis.
#16 – He’s going to take 123% of your earnings and tax the rush limbaugh freedom channel.
#17 – Once shot a man in Reno…just to watch him die!
#18 – Ate the liver of a census taker once tried to test him, with some fava beans and a nice chianti.
#19 – Turned to the Dark Side to try to save Padme’ and killed Mace Windu.
#20 – He likes to dissect girls. Did you know he’s utterly insane?
#21 – He’s going to enjoy watching you die, Mr. Anderson.
#22 – He will tell you “what’s the matter!” He goes out of his way for you! He does everything to try and make you happy. He feeds you, he cleans you, he dresses you, and what thanks does he get? “Oh, you bought the wrong paper, Barack, I can’t write on this paper, Barack!” Well, he’ll get your stupid paper but you just better start showing him a little appreciation around here, Mr. MAN!
#23 – He’ll get you, my pretty…and your little dog too!
#24 – He’s done far worse than kill you. He’s hurt you. And he wishes to go on… hurting you. He shall leave you as you left him, as you left her. Marooned for all eternity, in the center of a dead planet. Buried alive… buried alive.
#25 – He does know or has not even heard of Robert Burton, although he is probably gay
#26 – His chief weapon is surprise. Surprise and fear, fear and surprise…his two weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency…his three weapons are fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, and an almost fanatical devotion to the pope…amongst his weaponry are such diverse elements as fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the pope, and these nice red uniforms…
#25 – He’s not circumcised
#26 – He watches washington week in review
#27 – He’s dead, jim
#28 – He’s a pork-eating muslim
#29 – He’s a christian-eating muslim
#30 – He didn’t vote for bush
#31 – He’s a HIP-HOPER
#32 – He has not read the Fourth way
#33 – He wears ruby slippers to bed.
#34 – He was born on february 30th
#35 – He always sided with colonel klink
#36 – He always sided with muttley et al.
#37 – He won’t annex Canada.
#38 – He blew his mind out in a car
#39 – He was the Walrus
#40 – On the night he was born, Lord, I swear the moon turned a fire red.
#41 – He’s off to see the wizard
#42 – He does not dislike the French.
#43 – He does not read this blog
and of course # 44 – He’ll be baaaaack!
Re# 201 (Lewis Carroll School)
That sordid past includes the fact that Robert Burton asked women to have abortions and to give away their children. And this man is revered as a spiritual guide by the current administration and faculty.
CVB #198
What a touching story. I am sure you helped her just by asking the questions and being open to her. Ultimately each person’s decision to stay or leave depends on their own understanding at the time. I remember a time when I was unsure about staying or leaving, and as long as I stayed I had to justify it to myself, just as I now justify why I left. It reminds me of the cognitive dissonance discussions here on the blog some time ago, which is a good explanation of how we justify our actions. Just seeing we are all poor bastards in pretty much the same boat helps give perspective.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HhFrZ4-nxa4
202 Opus111
#45 – He come on flattop, he come groovin’ up slowly.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OvTZAg0H17w
Yes, Lennon ripped it off from Chuck.
unoanimo:
“The ’system’ Robert Burton molded pretty much contradicts everything shamans and spiritual healers are about, which, IMO, is no small thing since that’s at the core of all of the four ways, i.e., awakening to becoming The Healer and not a more precise ‘Starving Baby’.”
Precisely, my friend. Well said. I agree wholeheartedly.
Anyone up for the healing task? If so, one successful, yet time consuming therapy used to extinguish and heal a delusional system in a person suffering from mental illness is to:
1) Join with them in the system
2) Encourage the system
3) Intervene by means of gentle confrontation of delusions of reference and magical thinking with reality testing
4) Support and reinforce new insights and healthy reality perceptions with the patient among a group of his peers
IMO, one healthy reality perception for bobby would be that his students are in fact not his sexual playthings and the school is not legally a vehicle for satisfying his personal lust and greed. (Good luck there.)
Of course, then bobby would have to become aware that there is a wider world out there and a community of humankind of which he is a part as an equal. It’s getting the peer group together that we would have trouble, finding his equals. Hmmm…all the people bobby thinks of as his peers are dead conscious beings, his good buddy Alex recently joining the bunch. (How convenient for him.)
Oh dear, oh my, what do we do? People continue to be harmed by this sexual predator whom you and I once supported. Our time, energy and money got him to where he is today.
Who can save bobby’s followers if they won’t save themselves from being trapped and slowly indoctrinated into his little delusional system of no return?
THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES! (And he is crazy as shit.)
This predicament of sincerity that his followers succumb to is only a recipe for more pain and suffering. At the end of the day, it makes me more sad than angry.
CVB
In relation to LCS:
I hear your concerns but do not fully agree with them. There are many youngsters who have been through that school and seem to have done well for themselves (gone on to college and away from OH). One may be horrified by the belief system and allegiance of Faculty and Administration, but I do not think those permeate very far into actual teaching, from what I could see. It is not like pupils were taught or asked to endorse 4th way ideas or count angels in the room (unlike creationism or fear of Shakespeare in other areas of deep America).
In general, teachers care very much for the kids and provide a safe environment for them to learn. Kids learn tolerance through an unusual ethnic diversity, and go through a curriculum which, although far from perfect, seems to prepare them more than adequately for High School and higher education elsewhere.
So, while not perfect and yes, endorsed/supported by FOF, LCS has provided a true service to the OH (FOF) community.
Hardtruth
Thanks for joining in the political dialog with the other 80% of the population with the cognitive development of a yak (my apologies to yaks). I am not particularly happy with the whole set-up but it would be nice to watch someone speaking as president who can put three sentences together without looking like they were mustering all their will to keep from picking their nose and eating the booger.
Yesri baba:
“…with the cognitive development of a yak (my apologies to yaks).”
Note that nearly everyone posting here on a regular basis entertains a certain sense of rational superiority, isn’t there something suspect about that?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=VlnVxcqSSfs
207 Opus111
I’d have to agree. I can’t speak about the faculty and administration per se, but my ex-wife is a teacher there. While I have several issues around our years together, and the fact that she “re-joined” I have absolutely no misgivings about her capacity to be an excellent teacher, and I’m confident that she doesn’t inject the ideas that we all fear may be fucking up the children of FOF members. She’s not a dummy, and I’d trust her judgment as to what’s appropriate within a school environment (that’s “school” and not “School”). Actually, in my opinion, they’re fucking lucky to have her.
209 hardtruth
There’s far more that’s suspect about you.
hardtruth
to add to your paranoia:
http://static.crooksandliars.com/2008/02/2009-rwball.jpg
Our beloved teacher has decided that Isis shall be renamed, “Camealot” because after all that’s what most of you did. Plans are currently underway to dig a giant moat around the property, “The moat of abundance” and fill it with desert wine to keep life people out. However given the dearth of cheap foreign labor currently being experienced, all students are asked to pitch in, bring a shovel and gather at the jousting ring, (formerly Grand Bazaar) this coming Saturday at 9am for a chalice of mead and the inaugural breaking of the holy ground.
Saturday evening’s fundraiser will be a Holy Grail banquet in the Gawain room where Robert will be talking absolute nonsense again on a mediaeval theme and counting fingers and toes in some nice pictures. Ladies are asked to greet the gentlemen by saying, “Good morrow brave Sir Knight” whilst gentlemen are asked to address the ladies as “Wench” e.g., “Here wench get me more mead”.
About the changes Robert has said, In the Bible Jesus admonished, “Why do you see the moat in your brother’s eye and don’t know you have a beam in your own eye?” The beam in your own eye is world 12 gazing wordlessly upon our beautiful moat. We shall be known to posterity as Camealot because when the moving finger hath writ and having writ moved on, it will be clear that’s really pretty much all we did here.
209 Hardtruth
Definitely, That is why I posted the response to the one who is so obviously ‘rationally superior’ to those in favor of Mr. Obama.
You Idiot.
Yesri baba:
“You Idiot.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DDaX4r–kI
(click on the “name-link” for this post and then click on “McCain supporter rips Obama” to the right on the video feed when over-mousing near the bottom of the clip window) (except in Oregon House, of course)
Re: the hypnotized, the influence of religion and mind control on a planetary scale — here are some staggering numbers…
http://timesonline.typepad.com/faith/2008/02/the-worlds-most.html
Hardtruth, sorry if you are bored by the facts…
Girls just want to have fun, eh?
214 hardtruth
My oh my, where ARE my manners?
Welcome back Greggy.
Love that song.
“Why I hate Pachelbel’s Canon”:
http://tinyurl.com/2f4zu2
hardtruth:
I have to agree with Yesri baba, I love that song, too, those are some awesome lyrics in that little ditty that bobby wrote:
“It was gravity which pulled us down
And destiny which broke us apart
You tamed the lion in my cage
But it just wasn’t enough to change my heart.
Now everything’s a little upside down, as a matter of fact The wheels have stopped,
What’s good is bad, what’s bad is good,
You’ll find out when you reach the top,
You’re on the bottom.
I noticed at the ceremony,
Your corrupt ways had finally made you blind
I can’t remember your face anymore,
Your mouth has changed,
Your eyes don’t look into mine.
The priest wore black on the seventh day
And sat stone-faced while the building burned.”
The part that hits me in the gut is about reaching the top only to find you are on the bottom. Ouch!
I may only speak for myself, but that is EXACTLY how I felt being intimate with the teacher. I was on top of him, but actually I was on the bottom. I felt like scum. I knew what kind of FOF track was in store for those who say, “no thanks”. I wised up fairly quickly after that.
See ya, hate to be ya.
Yesri baba:
“Welcome back Greggy.”
“Love that song.”
Love Song? You flatter me with your suspicions:
Opus 207 and CVB.
Presently, it seems even the children in the Lewis Carroll somehow know they better get their asses away from that place because they leave by the tons whenever they are old enough. They run!
I think they begin to perceive the cardboard make up of a place in which everything is supposed to be beautiful and in order, but the people are lifeless. The “King of Hearts” alchemy of the dead cannot fool children. They run for their lives, thank god!
There are difficult children in the community of Oregon House who have been ending up in jail, mixed with drugs, hardly speak with their parents after they leave. Like many teenagers in regular society but unthinkable in the “only conscious school on the planet.”
The teachers pardon me, are also like any other and give preferences to the children from parents in power in the Fellowship and other abominable things like that. The teachers, even those I much appreciate, express so much negativity to the children that they didn’t know what the hell to do with them to not have to sack them and live them without any money after being founders of the School.
They are needing to make it a Charter School because daddy Robert is not willing to share his income for the boys with the teachers and the children. No wonder the Teachers get sick; one way or another. The most frustrated students in the Fellowship of Friends are by far those who ever tried to work in the Lewis Carroll School for a better generation of children. Their dreams died in time, burnt by Roberts greed.
Dear Internaut,
I do not know at this point…..
What Fellowship life
is imagined to be:
http://www.youtube.com/v/LD8HDta7Z_4
Must be the Mickey Mouse outfit.
(Sorry, likely not so good by dailup in Oregon House.)
What Fellowship life
is becoming like
in Oregon House:
http://www.youtube.com/v/V8Ca_edg6RE
Note the six bell rings sounding
signifying the sequence –
must make it of esoteric origin.
(Sorry, likely not so good by dailup in Oregon House.)
hornyalex 212
LOL
Speaking of “Camealot”, Robert’s sperm donors should be reminded that all spiritual traditions point out that coming a lot is not good for one (and one’s possible evolution). Here is just one of many takes on the subject:
http://www.reuniting.info/wisdom/rainbow_serpent_of_the_toltecs
And here is a little excerpt in case you don’t want to read the whole thing:
Thoughts on gurus – Her teacher also warns her that it is possible for those who have learned to control their sexual energy to misuse their power. Unsolicited sex with an apprentice builds the abuser’s power while draining the apprentice. The more powerful the abuser looks in the eyes of his apprentice, the more the apprentice is likely to give away further power in hopes of gaining power and importance. However, one reason the abuser looks so charismatic to the apprentice is that he is “wearing” some of the apprentice’s “stolen” energy. This may account for the many abuses by gurus through the years. Another way that masters can abuse their power is by using a dream body (energy body) to engage in energetic intercourse while an apprentice is asleep in order to bind the apprentice’s sexual energy to the master’s service.
“How do I rip thee off? Let me count the ways…”
Is the Aire of Superiority a fragrance or an odor?
“He who smelt it, dealt it” Confucius
(Sorry, I had to quote somebody)
Lauralupe, that is powerful information that you’ve brought up. Thank you. Interesting that it uses all those words and does not mention that all that happens because there is an initial impulse of love for the Teacher. In the lower emotional centre, people love what they feel they don’t have and it makes emotional slaves of them. That is idolatry.
“However, one reason the abuser looks so charismatic to the apprentice is that he is “wearing” some of the apprentice’s “stolen” energy.”
He is wearing the student’s own love projected. This is essentially the phenomenon in meetings at the Galleria in which student’s look like hypnotised fanatics and Robert throws them out if they are not looking at him like that.
In relation to the dream body or body of energy, Girard did mention a few times that Robert would often absorb Girard’s physical energy when he was in need of it. Not sexually. They never had sex he claimed, but physically. I did not understand him at the time but that description explains it clearly.
Elena:
You have my deepest respect for all that you have been through with Dorothy’s passing and for the sacrifices that you have personally made for the truth. We have made similar sacrifices at the altar of love.
Your insights about Girard are invaluable. Did Girard ever actually spend much time around Robert?
One story I heard from his time in the London Center was that there were complaints about his teaching style. Some student followers were claiming that he couldn’t possibly be conscious. While he sat there with you in private consultation, he would loudly fart and carry on without excusing himself.
Maybe that was to dispel any air of superiority?
Hi Whalerider,
Before I answer you I wished to make a correction from my post where I say Girard claimed they had not had sex. I would rather say, Girard stated that they had not had sex and I still believe him. Their relationship was more Edipic in my opinion. They did not spend any time together in the four years I lived with Girard. They were not friends but accomplices.
The story you mention about Girard may well be true, he is not a refined man in those aspects. His true refinement is in the fact that no matter how misleading, he is the most honest man I’ve ever met. We are in a very delicate situation because if we really wish to understand what happened to us we cannot simply look at one aspect of the human beings involved, we have to see them in their integrity. “Honesty” is a difficult word for a man who divided into two clear personalities and duped thousands of people into believing in Robert Burton’s integrity. The sad thing is he himself believed it and needed to believe it. He himself convinced himself and used the whole of his presence, the whole of his authority, the whole of his sacrificed being into making others believe it was true. You can’t just watch a human being sacrifice everything in his life for another man and not be inspired by his devotion. The misery in each one of us admired that he could throw away children, wives, friends, his own body, and all of his time to state throughout the whole of his life that Robert Burton was a legitimate conscious being. We overlooked the slight issue that if Robert was not authentic his own promise to consciousness was no more real, that is the problem. He did not believe in himself, he had to believe in Robert and he had the will, the structure, the being to have led us all and himself to an awakening of some kind without having to mortgage his soul to Robert’s corruption but he was himself corrupted enough to not be able to do it.
The most honest man and the most corrupted at the same time but if we can understand the scale of both honesty and corruption when used in this man’s life as much as in the rest of the Fellowship then we’ll be way ahead in understanding our play. All the corruption in the Fellowship of Friends is much accepted as “normal” in American standards and most western societies are quickly catching up to it. It is good in a way because judging each other for the corruption that we’ve inherited from our peers is not going to help us work with it. We inherited the capacity to live as schizophrenics from our childhood with parents whose jobs had nothing to do with their family, whose sexuality had nothing to do with love, whose children had nothing to do with who they were but subjects of another authoritarian institution in which the parents could practice both their features and their suffering; Their honesty and their corruption. The separation of the different spheres of individual, family and community account for most tragedies of our time.
From that point of view, both Robert and Girard are perfectly coherent people in the standards of our societies. They do not make more money than others, they do not rape more people than others, they do not love any less than others and the robe of a spiritual school is no less corrupt than the robe of a “University.” People think they can get away with everything but in the end we are all caught up by the whole.
Our real tragedy lies in the fact that this is what we made of our lives with the best intention. This is what our being has produced this far. Girard stood like a monument on behalf of Robert Burton’s enlightenment. He used all his beauty as a human being, all his power as a martial, all his capacity for sacrifice in the only possible way that he understood it legitimate, with total honesty. He is still doing that. The break-point is in the fact that he deployed all that not really for the students, the work or his own development but at the cost of the students, the work and his own development. Robert Burton and Girard Haven are the only two people that seem to have benefited from the Fellowship of Friends: They took student’s love to empower themselves and rule over them; They claimed the right to decide, to speak, to love, to spend, to not share, to think, to not hear, to do, to not let it be done, to be, to not let us be, to fuck and be fucked. The Fellowship of Friends has not harmed anyone as much as them; we are all victims of our own invention but they are the worst victims.
Thank you for your acknowledgement Whalerider! Where did you find Dorothy? I think of her with much joy. She smiles at me from the other side where she is much more relaxed than with me pushing her around to go for an ice cream in Yuba City! But she did think Food for less was at her age about as exciting as Walt Disney for a child! We really had so much fun in our predicament!
New Fellowship theme song:
I just got a new job as a translator for Indian music videos. This is my first shot:
I just got a call, for some reason they fired me.
230 brucelevy
OMG — hysterical.
I laughed so hard I cried.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA1NoOOoaNw&feature=related
“Who put that goat in here?”
That’s it folks, my new screen name: Benny Lava.
234 Kid Shelleen
And to think, Fellowship students can’t enjoy these videos because of the “no wit” exercise. How depressing.
“I’d love to see you pee on us tonight.”
“I’d love to see you pee on us tonight.”
Actually, Robert may want to re-think that exercise.
“Now poop on them Oliver.”
…even more so.
From The Egyptian Book of the Dead (or The Book of Going Forth By Day):
“The third gate: the name of its gatekeeper is ‘One who eats the Putrefaction of his Posterior’; the name of its guardian is ‘Alert of Face’; the name of the announcer in it is ‘Gateway’.”
Discuss.
229 / 230 brucelevy
234-5-6-7 Innernaut
I don’t know why you got fired, Bruce, you’ve got a future there!
Which leads me to ask, just how is your loony bun today?
Really Bruce, they made me want to off blast!
Thx.
JF
“The World According to Benny Lava”
OMG, I think I almost died watching this, I couldn’t breath.
I see the nuns are gay!
Benny Lava, anybody need this sign?
Who put the goat in there? The yellow goat I ate?
I put papaya in there!
The ninja made a movement!
Have you been high today?
Oh, man, this is epic, thanks for the laughs guys.
JF
. . . and just to prove the weirdness goes on and on, it just sometimes gets a better soundtrack, I submit:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4776181634656145640
JF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eGvmB8Phk8&
Unless you’re in Oregon House always check the “name-link” for something weird.
Disjointed
Well, how are you today? It was an innocent question.
Jumping in boots first. “Disjointed”. Continuing on with the example of the the four horses, four limbs torture.
Stop! Stop! That is a horrible image.
Just figurative, my friend. But realizing the only way out is to change the subject , move on. So sorry to have left you with an image of galloping horses and flying body parts. Just figurative.
Sometimes, these days, don’t you just feel like that? Head to the left, heart to the right, and what the heck is going on with the body. Hey, stop that.
Keep hearing myself saying, keep it together, left foot, right foot, this moment, this moment. But there isn’t a word in the world that is going to help.
Hold on, hold on. But how can I? My right arm is half way to Argentina. Finding myself and losing myself in rapid succession. Doing far too much of some things and definitely not enough of others.
We haven’t we been encased in concrete far too long? Shake it off. You and your friend. Telling them, I see things in you, wonderful things, things you can’t see in yourself. Just look in my eyes. Deep. See.
Then you catch your reflection in their gaze. Whole.
My left arm, you ask. Paraguay.
disarmed
Cake
More disarming:
“Ever wanted to talk to God? Well, now you can…”
http://www.eso-garden.com/index.php?/weblog/godsbot_the_christian_robot/
Cake ~
If you’re in South America or anywhere where you can access it, find a Shaman: try and embrace both arms around ‘Grandmother’… ’she’ will show you the way towards healing.
There comes a time when one must bypass ‘C-Influence’ and go straight to their parents for help: a place where conscience rules over prayer and zero is the most ancient age.
:.)
Uno
Thank you.
Me, in Oregon House. And you and me talking about flora and fauna, when was it, mid August, at somebody’s party. Maybe you remember.
Healing, Shaman, strange enough, it looks like I have one at my fingertips. Whenever. Whenever.
But in my worst, up against the wall, out of control, what the hell are you doing moments, here it comes, that voice that says aren’t you glad to be alive and feeling again.
Really, meant that post to be something about joy. Years of feeling, not enough, never enough. Years of trying to making efforts and more efforts, knowing there was not an effort left to make.
Finding out. Then finding out after all, that you are enough. You were always enough. Perfect. Complete.
Flawed, of course, filled with frailties and vanities, of course, but still perfect. Do you know what joy that brings. Bet you do.
Healers. Oh these friends, magical friends. Guess, I am still glowing in the first rush. Alive again. Alive again.
with respect and gratitude
Cake
Cake
You’re welcome.
The only party I recall attending was that ‘Half & Half’ party where the Fellowship of Friends ‘Ins’ and ‘Outs’ mingled and drank beer from the bottle (well, at least I did).
Hummmm; I am glad to hear that you have a Shaman at your fingertips, then again, all airports do… IMO, efforts are one thing, revelations another…
Oftentimes an experience can be an ‘effort’; often in American esoteric circles (based on American ethics and other misc. hoopla) an effort is usually packed filled with physical and mental gymnastics and battles with contradictory goods and evils, whereas an experience with ‘Grandmother’ can reset the standards, IMO, where they possibly began, i.e., not having experiences defined as ‘effort’ or ‘trying’ occurring outside ourselves, but, rather, from the inside
and if it’s truly a genuine ‘occult’ experience, it will not leak out, like those which hinge on external results and when the flowing of circumstances ‘happen’ as the third dimension does not turn fourth when Could, Should and Would ‘would’ have it so or based on some ‘Sunday to Sunday’ schedule of report-card sharing.
Whoever you are Cake, I wish you well and try and walk somewhere out here called ‘Beside You’…
___________________
L.t.y.a.
Dear All,
When Elena mentioned that Girard told her that he was not involved in Robert’s sex life, it might be true. Maybe not. Many men deny the fact that they were involved in Robert’s sex life. For many reasons. Like:
Shame
Denial
Disgust
Hurt
The secrecy that was ask of the involved, to not to talk about it.
The believe system that it was and/or is something very special.
There are a few men that I know (intentional maybe) who say they were not involved in Robert’s sex life and it seems so obviously they were? Who knows?
Girard is the intellectual type and does not seem to fit the bill. Maybe he had sex once or twice with Robert? He fits the bill of the broken type category.
It is hard to know and from one angle not my business?
I am still pondering about this. What is my business in this matter?
241 Skeptical Optimist
That was good (and odd), but this is, well, check it out.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6283096511750618839
More history needed,
I believe Girard and Robert have not had sex simply because when he would have been eligible to Robert’s taste Robert was still trying to work with it, control it, hide it and between himself and Girard there was a code of honour. The code from which Girard has been able to stand and hold Robert with. They have an edipic relationship I believe. The image of a man that was enough of a man is in each other’s programming. The great man, the macho giving up his machoness for the conscious queen, The conscious queen giving up his kingdom to the conscious macho. Yuk! Deep down they need to believe in each other’s integrity. Girard needs to think that Robert has integrity and Robert has to use that conviction from Girard to have the rest of the School believe in him. Hundreds of students could have given a dam about Girard but no one ever challenged him or told the rest of us that he was challengeable. They kept quiet and played along with how Robert used Girard’s apparent integrity, apparent willingness to sacrifice, apparent stature and will and love to get another generation of students to support their little act in the Fellowship of Friends. Everyone profited from the money one way or another and everyone loved the little act they were meagrely allowed to display in the last conscious School on the planet.
We live in the most decadent time of our civilization and people in cults will pass on as the most decadent people it harboured.
What is your business in this matter? This is our life not anybody else’s.
244 Cake please
“Sometimes, these days, don’t you just feel like that? Head to the left, heart to the right, and what the heck is going on with the body. Hey, stop that.”
“But there isn’t a word in the world that is going to help.”
* * *
Yes. Sometimes these days I do feel just like that. And yes, there do not seem to be any words that will help. Attempting to live with no reference points seems to be so frightening to some sections of my little cosmos.
Some inside try to be a little like those jugglers, except the balls keep landing all over the fucking place.
251 Elena
I believe Girard and Robert have not had sex simply because when he would have been eligible to Robert’s taste Robert was still trying to work with it, control it, hide it and between himself and Girard there was a code of honour.
Elena, I respect and appreciate much of what you write here (at least the bits I’m able to get myself to read) and your passionate efforts. However, statements like the one above are complete and utter rubbish, bullshit fabrications of your own imagining. You are talking about 1973-1974, and I’m pretty sure you have no direct idea of what was happening then, who Girard and Barbara actually were when they joined, and even less idea (if that’s possible) of what “Robert was … trying to work with.” Much more effective when you stick to what you know.
250 Innernaut
Fantastic, thanks. Much better skill, yeah, but it was the whole performance/audience aspect of the original that pushed it way over the weird barrier for me. And how’s your loony bun today?
Thanks.
JF
Threading, tying loose ends, half knots, weaving, tapestry forming, breaking needles, frayed ends, and grandmother is flying above on the magical carpet.
253 Skeptical Optimist
Yeah, I agree the original had the bizarre quality going for it. Everybody wants to be a rock star. Even jugglers, apparently. I loved how the guy doing the parody even sung along with the lyrics at precisely the same time as the original guy. I admire the original guy’s skill, but I think his weirdness has something to do with delusions of grandeur. To bring it back on-topic, I guess there’s a little bit of Robert in everyone. Uh, let me re-phrase that…
And my loony bun is fine today, thanks.
252 James McLemore
“Some inside try to be a little like those jugglers, except the balls keep landing all over the fucking place.”
Well said.
241 Skeptical Optimist
No matter how many times I watch this I’m blown away. Thanks.
243 hardtruth
Ok, I get it all now….your posts, this clip. You’re like 16, 17? All is forgiven. Youthful folly.
249 More history needed?
Having been around Princess Twinkle Toes I can tell you that Gerard was definitely NOT RB’s type. I remember thinking about the fact that RB never really liked to spend time around Gerard other than what was needed. It was pretty clear that G didn’t fit the usual bill of fare. He wasn’t pretty in a boyish/girlish way, he wasn’t solar and/or stupid. I remember thinking (this was the 80’s) what a dick RB was for treating G the way he did. RB obviously needed him and used him for certain aspects of the gig, and that was it… period. If Gerard died in the school you’d have RB talking fondly about him like they were soul mates, like he did with Alex, but in truth, other than efficacy, RB really doesn’t give two shits, except to create new myths.
I just can’t get past Girard thinking that the relationship between a student and his teacher is like that of a master and his dog. That blows me away everytime I think if it! What drugs was he on? If he told me that, I would turn my back and start running for the hills.
Now a dog has no real loyality or conscience. It will follow you or anyone else if you feed it, as long as you don’t feed it too much to completely satisfy its hunger, otherwise it runs off. You have to keep it slightly hungry so it will obey you and feed it only once a day. More often than not, you have to keep it indoors, chained up, or behind a tall fence. With time, you can train a dog to jump through hoops, dance, wear funny clothes, and even fuck you up the ass.
That’s the difference between a student and a follower. A student has and retains a conscience and the self-esteem that would empower them to get themselves out of a “school” that is in reality a rape factory. A student has the aim and ability to learn to feed himself. At some point, FOF students are taught to eat their own consciences and become followers in order to stay a member for so many years. I can hear the master’s voice now…
Stay! Sit! Speak! Now roll over that conscience! Good boy! Here’s your doggie treat!
I agree with Bruce, Girard wasn’t Robert’s type but even if he had been Joel, I think Robert had better plans on how to use him. All that mass of apparent integrity must’ve had some use if it wasn’t to fuck it. Or fuck it anyway in the long run like Bruce says for he, nor does anybody else in the Fellowship, give a fuck about Girard. Only Girard’s role as long as he can continue to travel around the third class countries in the world making the few dimes that less sophisticated, more in essence people willing to travel for two days to listen to him, can come up with and get some money for the Lewis Carroll and the Arts from the few adepts that still go to his dinners to see if they ever have a chance to say anything that is not a pre-established quotation. Anything as long as the Arts and the Lewis Carroll and anyone in need doesn’t have to put his dirty hands in Robert’s pocket who once in a while will also add to the multiple donations another dinner for the Arts and the Lewis Carroll.
As long as I can continue to hear your voice Joel saying anything positive to me I’ll do my best to add a few of those absurdities that move you enough. Thank you for the compliment. The ink does tend to dry a little in monologues.
——……
In relation to Girard’s honesty I was looking at it from his own point of view and it is with that relativity that I think it needs to be taken. No one fucks other people thinking they are harming them, they make up myriad excuses within themselves to make it look legitimate for themselves and no one will prove them the contrary without suffering. That is how honest Girard thinks he is. Miles might have had less addictions to have to bend his being and if he didn’t just leave with the ambition of opening his own school, which would not detract much from him either, who cares, why not, but it was the presentation they gave to students who joined later to make him look like an ambitious fart and take weight away from the real facts. Still, why did neither Miles, nor you nor a thousand other people ever come to tell us what you knew so clearly? What shame, what horror, and what honesty did you carry in your being to stay silent for over twenty years while thousands like I continued to get fucked?
You are lucky that I do not regret it either, that fire bends to transform. There was no Internet but the gates were always there. Any slight gesture would have moved thousands in the right direction.
Of course I love Girard, not that I expect him to appreciate this kind of love, or anyone else for that matter, but you think I would be screaming if it weren’t because I can see so clearly how they all damage each other? Anyone can speak the truth about him, that would help, but if I were just going to detract from him because he farts, who doesn’t?
The issue is in the fact that big macho man; big male institution was willing to sacrifice himself for a cheap queer but not for a woman, not for any woman. As long as it was for another man, he’d break his balls into four and burn them in glycerine but not for any woman. Not a fucking chance, from Girard or any of the thousands of men in the Fellowship of Friends who support and supported the institution. And the women too, they love to play second and third and fourth place in the brothel as long as they get a chance to play any role, God Fuck, after centuries of playing whores, who would expect them to play women.
It’s too bad I no longer find any interest in women but if I have to play the second or third or fourth in the game of being with men, I’ll happily stay celibate for another lifetime. We align ourselves like human beings in marriage and community or we stay out of marriage and community until it dies out on its own. If no sex is the price of dignity, it’s a cheap price.
innernaut #250
Nice video…the guy was obviously in a high state of ‘flow’.
Cake 247 that was beautiful.
Different cult, similar issues:
warning this video is not for the squeamish.
http://www.cracked.com/article_15973_scientology-nice.html
Elena #260 (and 12s of others)
You keep referring to Girard as the embodiment of honesty. I just don’t quite get it. May be you could think of the difference between “honesty”, “delusion” (mistaken honesty) and “deceit” (intended delusion or the famous intentional insincerity). I think Girard’s honesty often falls short of being honest. Just because one can argue a point does not mean one is being “honest” about it. I am not suggesting a long debate about the issue.
I also disagree that nobody cared or cares (in or out of FOF) about Girard or the pleas of those still mesmerized by the whole show. Many did, many do today. Lambasting Joel and others for having waiting for so long to tell us how bad it was, how bad it is, miss the obvious point that only those willing to learn and ponder come to read and/or wrote on the blog. How many of those still attending “events” today would be willing to read your posts, or those of Joel, Whalerider, Simon, Anna and others?
‘You can bring the horses to the water (by and large, those in the FOF know the blog exists) but you cannot make them drink’ (read and weep).
brucelevy:
“Ok, I get it all now….your posts, this clip. You’re like 16, 17? All is forgiven. Youthful folly.”
The Indian-English interpretation clip was lame, juvenile, but I had the good taste not to say so. In my opinion the clip I posted was a great rendition of a tune by the Smiths, even if performed by two teenaged lesbians. In the future always refer back to my previous suggestion you check your own mirror before projecting your version of quality control or “adult supervision” on others. In that regard, you might also consider what you were susceptible to in your career as a human being that others resisted and maybe drop the attitude that you have the common sense to offer criticism to anyone about anything. I hope this reply doesn’t interfere with your implacable, self-satisfied smirk. Have a nice day.
You won’t like this either:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=CDqnq_Qb-kE&
260 Elena
Still, why did neither Miles, nor you nor a thousand other people ever come to tell us what you knew so clearly? What shame, what horror, and what honesty did you carry in your being to stay silent for over twenty years while thousands like I continued to get fucked?
You are lucky that I do not regret it either, that fire bends to transform. There was no Internet but the gates were always there.
Just more self-righteousness, Elena, and inaccurate at that. Why didn’t you read the LA Times article that spelled it all out? Why didn’t you come to the many former student gatherings where you could have found out what people thought who had left? Are you going to beat yourself up over that? How futile and what a waste of energy.
The fact is that most of us knew nothing of the extent of Burton’s sexual crimes. It came out with the Buzbee case, I believe in 1994. And the real story I only learned from this blog. Did you seek out the Buzbees to find out their story? No, of course you didn’t because no “good student” or well-functioning robotic follower would do so, and that is why it is equally insane to think that
Any slight gesture would have moved thousands in the right direction.
Utter bullshit. I mailed out over 100 letters to people when I left, and I never declined to tell people why. I didn’t notice any thousands leaving. As has been stated many times here, people really have to be ready, and that’s the compassionate truth.
My sense is that you have much to offer and many subjects on which you are a valuable contributor and a passionate spokesman. Continuing to blame other people does nothing for you or for them. Life isn’t fair. I lost an enormous amount through my captivity in the FoF, but looking for someone to blame simply retards my own healing. Why not just drop it?
JF
I have been waiting for ages to post this video, I love it, but after all this is not a music blog…
time to go with the flow?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7NVfuSFREmU&feature=related
260 Elena
“anyone in need doesn’t have to put his dirty hands in Robert’s pocket”.
RB likes to refer to that as “having to go into his private coffer”.
264 Hardtruth
I hope this reply doesn’t interfere with your implacable, self-satisfied smirk.
Thanks for the concern, but no, it didn’t.
264 Hardtruth
…You supercilious little shit.
Opus 111, Joel,
I clearly put a line where I ended the part for Joel after thanking him but should have been clearer that I wasn’t directing the rest to him but to the blog in general and answering private mail that I get that seems equally valuable for the rest of us. You never mentioned Girard’s honesty, why would anyone think I was talking to you?
Opus, I don’t know how many times I have to repeat that the honesty I speak about in Girard has nothing to do with real honesty but that he himself never thought of himself as anything but honest and thousands of students relied on that. At least I did and know for sure that hundreds other did. Hundreds in centres and at Isis.
If you had been told by Robert that you were to become the next conscious being in the last Conscious School on the planet, what would you’ve done for Robert?
A little sex?
A little sex with a few boys? What the hell, homosexuality is legal in the United States and most of the world? Specially Ancient Greece?
Some brilliant men after all?
Build the lodge?
Build the Academy?
Build the Gardens?
Develop the winery?
So much building, we can’t just be fooling around here?
And if they gave you some money to travel around meeting loving devotees with their tongue out, cherished you like a jewel, how comfortable would you be?
And if you had a little tendency for young pure beautiful girls, so pure and young what on earth could be wrong with that? Isn’t porn legal too?
And besides your little tendency you were willing to give up every comfort for yourself and your family until you extirpated it out of your life forever and required of your wives the same stoicism multiplied by the fact that women and feminine dominance had to be put in the first row after they had bowed to find young men for Robert, then wouldn’t you think you had after all been as honest as you could have possibly been, given the conditions?
The fact that you run your luck against your destiny and got a stroke from the dissonance, married four times and finally succeeded to try one decent time to fail again, lost all your bets in the machinery that needed to swallow younger more credible men and forgot to care convinced that if you just continued to make daily plans for everyday of the rest of your life you could wind yourself enough to last, did not really make a difference.
Honesty, you think I call that honesty or do you just wish to hear that and not read the rest of a thousand posts?
Still every measure of compassion would have stood for the man if he’d been willing to take a step out because when you understand fully how easily we all make a misery of our lives with a thousand fewer temptations to do so, you don’t doubt about what your role is in a situation like that. But we are too miserable even to take a step out when nothing but more crime is left inside.
What’s the difference Opus 111? He does that while we shout on the blog displaying our talents in the hope that there exists something different to what one just left but when the time comes to state the obvious, people hide the pen, the hand, the balls and the head and to hell with a petition, a newspaper, a lawsuit and keep playing the music.
It is different nevertheless. There was nothing in seventeen years in the Fellowship Joel. Every tiny claim was minutiously covered up by the establishment and besides the five that got thrown out for backing my question in a meeting on How do we deal with abuse of Friendship, I NEVER HEARD ANYONE COMPLAIN OR SAY THEY HAD SUFFERED IN THE FELLOWSHIP OF FRIENDS. Never; not one. We can kill each other out here with atomic bombs but as long as we don’t find a way of interrupting the life inside with real objections, hundreds of people will continue to spend five, ten, fifteen, twenty and more years paying money they don’t owe and karma they don’t deserve.
If no one else had seriously suffered why should I question what was making me suffer so deeply? Shouldn’t I just transform it? If it had not been for the fact that if I had stayed there for another two years I too would have died of exhaustion, illness and sadness. Hopelessness. It was not my bright mind what got me out of there it was one scream from the blog and my exhausted body what could not take it for a second longer. After a few years one stays in the Fellowship solely out of soul. No mind, no heart, no will but the inertia of having to go on because that is all you know and nobody gives a fuck.
I do not blame you Joel or anybody else; today I call you responsible. If anyone around here does not feel responsible for what is still happening inside, I blame you. We know too much to let it continue no matter the money, the newspapers or whatever else is necessary to stop it. I cannot do it on my own and if you just want to play with it, allow me to stand out of the game. I already played.
I too will stop screaming. Maybe I’ll come up and stand at the pyle every time I am in the United States, but you’re right Joel, I’ll go to hell with my righteousness because in the end there are more beautiful things to talk about than how a bunch of people destroyed their lives and those of others.
I too am getting tired of hearing myself, don’t worry, I’ll let you play with your selves without bugging you much more. In fact I will not leave without deeply thanking you for getting me out of the Fellowship and putting up with me for a year. I’ve learnt more from you in a year than from seventeen years in the Fellowship of Friends, especially about what I really want for myself.
270 Elena
” I’ve learnt more from you in a year than from seventeen years in the Fellowship of Friends, especially about what I really want for myself.”
That sounds like healing to me.
***
“If anyone around here does not feel responsible for what is still happening inside, I blame you.”
Not sure about that one.
Remember that responsibility simply means the ability to have a response. And the ability to respond works much better without weight or guilt.
Hello Elena and All ~
I want to address some of Elena’s points, though not to her entirely: I hope, in the nature of the blog and what it has meant to me over the last year, that what we still write is still (in spirit) for all to take in and ponder, sense and be with.
_____________________________________________
Hello Elena,
You wrote ~
“But we are too miserable even to take a step out when nothing but more crime is left inside.”
________________
IMO, this is a very deep Catch 22 situation in all cults and organized religions alike, it is an Earth-human-situation, ‘installed’ in front of our souls like a movie screen and is magnified more so when it’s modeled in a small setting, i.e., when it is condensed and not spread out over a State or Country. This movie ‘entertains’ our ‘Daily Mind’ and for whatever reason, it cloaks our core, our soul’s conscience.
IMO, there are two conscience’s:
1) The one belonging to our ‘Daily Mind’s’ response to reports from the External World and its reaction to these events and definitions: it belongs to the part of us that believes ‘I am me, because you are you.’ It also believes, it experiences itself through ‘concepts’ and not deep ‘percepts’: it believes and acts on belief, experience is still a confusing thing, because experience still, for the most part, leads most into Hypocrisy and Contradictions.
2) The second is much more quiet; it shape shifts behind loud conversations in Coffee Shops and such places as Apollo D’Oro:
it is what pauses, then a scratch to the chin opens Pandora’s Box and covers it up with a quick speculative response. To me, Pandora’s Box is the makeup kit that the Painful Self (Daily Mind) uses to keep it’s inner ‘actor’ looking like an actor and not a movie goer, while the farm boy and gasoline attendant sleep by the diesel generator in case it begins to sputter, that is, the simpler sides of ourselves stare out in wonderment as to what we just said
and oftentimes does actually produce real “conscious remorse” and apologizes, saying, “I did not mean what I said.”
I could say this about allot of what I have written on this blog, yet, it had to happen the way it did and that’s that:
I could say that, ‘I did not mean what I said because it meant me.’ There’s a huge crossover here…
Again, you wrote ~
“But we are too miserable even to take a step out when nothing but more crime is left inside.”
________________
Further into it, the ‘Catch 22′ is that the “too miserable” is exactly, IMO, what protects the evolution of the soul and the reconciliation of certain traumas, sometimes contemporary, sometimes ancient and beyond your wildest imaginations.
IMO, the ‘Painbody’ is a spirit-phenomenon and one will only get further from ‘touching its nature with understanding and healing intent’ if one applies human-being-characteristics to it: just because ‘its’ emotions and atmospheres unfold in human form means little when Conscience hits the fan…
______________________________
IMO, Magnetic Center is the result of untransformed traumas from one’s soul’s core issuing out some sort of ‘cry’, a type of ‘beacon’:
to me, this is something everyone has to some degree, it’s some function that simply ‘is’ and it gets covered up with layers and layers of blankets:
I picture a person worried that a suffering child is too cold so they keep putting blankets on the child till the weight of the blankets ceases the child’s breathing:
the child remains warm, safe, though in a coma and extremely disturbed because it cannot open its eyes, mouth, ears, hands or heart to itself, it’s conscious will.
__________________
The “nothing but more crime is left inside”:
IMO, this is a mirror image of what is inside us (at times); the trauma is the ‘first crime’, anything that resembles or triggers the trauma to use the ‘Daily Mind’ to express itself abstractly, is simply a sort of ‘collectors piece’, something to occupy Time and Space and the Daily Mind, not oneself or fundamental healing processes:
the Painful Self keeps a ‘photo album’ for sure and rarely does it exchange its photo album for that of another’s for good… It keeps these ‘photo albums’ as an atmospheric opiate, IMO, keeping the core traumas under wrap…
It is a mystery to me how it is that we have to grow up twice: first we just simply grow up by default and secondly we are offered the chance to die to all that ‘atmosphere’ and begin from the point of view as a self standing up from the inside out,
quiet and fearful of not a ‘god’ in the worshipful sense (worshiping the antidote (the wish) to the atmosphere), but rather, fear of our own condition of Conscience, what it really feels and how the trauma itself can be revealed as a sort of soul-tumor, stretching out its fibrous influences all throughout our bodies, spirits and Daily Minds, what this does and creates if left unchecked, (that is, once you know it’s there and have felt the tumor with the Hell that’s intertwined with ones innocence, free will and embattled feelings ‘the push and pull of conscience’.)
_____________
IMO, perhaps (in the final stages of Reconciling certain deep Traumas) it’s not about taking a step outside or fearing the taking of such steps based on being in a state of desperation concerning the external world’s mirror, because, going out (for some) would only mean more of the same that’s driving the inner trauma crazy, that’s making it want to get out:
though here’s the odd thing ~
The stepping out takes place inside and the atmosphere that’s surrounding the unresolved traumas, keeping them alive, is the ‘External World’, i.e., the external world belonging to the Trauma, the external world that one’s ego and Daily Mind has created around the unconscious penmanship of the Trauma itself: IMO.
Traumas ‘attract or magnetize’ to themselves mirror images of their creators and romanticized relief or wish-button;
sometimes at the ‘end’ of whatever circumstance created the trauma, there’s a ‘wish’ sent up into one’s soul; this wish most likely goes against accepting the circumstance as a lesson or one simply cannot accept it and it burrows itself into one’s heart, feeling like an immortal gopher:
(hence, the condition of needing to be a student that does not graduate and gain conscious autonomy, till the permission of another allows it: who is this ‘other’?
Perhaps it’s that part of us that feeds off resentment and regret…
Perhaps it’s the part of us that wants ‘wish’ more that ‘It’s coming true’ (?)
___________________
In one of my experiences I saw that all of my marriages and relationships ‘ended’ just as my original trauma ended and that they began with ‘rescue missions’, that is ~
When ‘the wish’ was concerning the aftermath of the ‘original trauma’ or exactly what I had wished I could have done in order so that the circumstances that ‘did’ happen would not have:
so I lay down at some point in my existence, curled up and breathed heavy from exhaustion, fear, doubt and extreme rage at not having been able to say goodbye to ‘the other’ caught up in the circumstance of the trauma’s creation, so too, perhaps there was even residue within my soul from it’s unfinished yearnings as well… (?)
The wish was ~
To have been able to rescue or BE RESCUED… Which is actually not at all about the Trauma itself and the fact that it did happen to the soul via its incarnation in the physical world: no, it (the wish) was simply ‘atmospheric’, a mood, a drug of sorts, a coma-hope…
______________________________________
So many times, when the Knight meets the Dragon, he in secret says ~
‘I’ll tell you what, I will call with my special whistle and my horse will gallop here; she’s 6 times my weight in tasty flesh, eat her, not me.’
And lo and behold the Dragon agrees with the Knight and to this day lets out a whistling noise each time it hiccups.
___________________________________
Elena, you wrote ~
“as long as we don’t find a way of interrupting the life inside with real objections, hundreds of people will continue to spend five, ten, fifteen, twenty and more years paying money they don’t owe and karma they don’t deserve.”
____________
Perhaps the ‘inside’ is not altogether about Oregon House’s mirroring of our ‘inside’ or what’s ‘inside’ once one gets beyond the guard house at Isis…
What within all of us ‘resembles’ Robert Burton’s bedroom on a Sunday night?
If there’s a student whose supporting such a mirror image, then, IMO, I can only suppose that there’s something within themselves that’s creating a ’supportive reflection’:
___________________
Narcissus likes seeing his reflection the the surface of the water likes giving it, showing it; while it safely flows as itself underneath the reflection… So long as Narcissus stays ‘put’, the water itself will not meet with drought…
It’s no mistake that a famous ‘teacher’ was said to have spent his time in a desert and not a plush oasis. The traumas we have stored in us are Black Seas needing drought, IMO.
___________________
The atmosphere surrounding traumas is gigantic: trillions are spent each year in building up an atmosphere of Military Defense on Earth, defense of what? Whose the enemy? Perhaps the ‘enemy’ is one’s own unresolved anger and rage and the ‘mind’ within that attaches itself to keeping it that way… (?)
Getting to the heart of the trauma is not necessarily ‘winning the war’, yet, at least it’s a war where the sacrifices cannot add to the trauma, if it’s warred well and the lessons one learns actually live daily and are applied, rather than talked about and polished more high as philosophical possibilities.
Sometimes I wonder how far people in The Fellowship of Friends took the word-phrase ~ “Man’s Possible Evolution”?
To me, this is not a static condition, yet it could be if coupled with a teacher or a student whose concerning themselves with the application of ‘environment and atmosphere’ surrounding the Trauma or Magnetic Center and not getting to the heart of the students or teachers contradictions and hypocrisies, which so often are awesome tell-tale symptoms of where to work and learn into, not necessarily out of.
Yet, I am not judging or doubting here, because it’s a necessary stage, it arrives in one form or another along the spirit’s way… It’s mysterious and I have no words.
______________________
I am not sure, Elena, whether I could support (in blog-friendship), after my experiences, that of ~
“paying money they don’t owe and karma they don’t deserve.”
The Atmosphere around the Trauma is insatiable till a breakthrough is initiated; while, IMO, the “money” and “karma” are one.
What we owe and ‘deserve’ is proportionate to the atmosphere the Daily Mind has built up around the Untouched Trauma: it’s linked to conscience: for does not Conscience nearly always ‘imply’ some sort of payment to be made and ‘how’ do we pay it and then later regain a debt by contradicting what we thought we learned by the initial payment?
If we do not ‘really pay’ then a debit is naturally created and the atmosphere becomes denser, thicker and more ‘I am not that Trauma, because I am busy looking up at the Atmosphere (the external world), while, curiously enough the ‘looking up’ is resting under the graveyard-trees of the trauma itself.’ (?)
So, perhaps there is an inner ‘right-ness’ that’s connected to the sense of oneself, that is indeed partly about keeping a spirit record of exactly where one is in relation to one’s conscience: and perhaps we do owe ourselves money and WILL pay (as Rodney Collins said ~ “Eventually you will have to pay for everything.”) For me, I have verified that he was ’spot on’ concerning this one, at least for me, he was.
Maybe there is a sort of ‘karma’ that we do deserve, after all, if we did not ‘deserve’ anything from our actions and reactions ‘within ourselves’, how would we grow and exist?
________
Perhaps “deserve” has a personal meaning for you Elena, in regards to the subject of ‘punishment’: the Fellowship of Friends ‘leader’ (punished) you for speaking and gave you a ‘No talking exercise’ for a long time: is there anything within you that may mirror that ‘happening’? I fathom there is, for by some mysterious contraption we attract similar ‘plays’ as to those that created the Trauma itself and this ‘tumor’ lives based on ‘Repetition’ or ‘The Law of Re-occurence’:
IMO, ‘deserve’ is either the red or white blood cells of Conscience, I am not sure which; yet, underneath all that ‘thinks for us’ there’s a feeling and this feeling is connected in the most delicate way to ‘deserve’ and ‘free-will’…
In my experience, free will costs allot and what I deserve is to stand up within, in the midst of the tumor and begin tending to its veracious appetite for breathing polluted air and not to kill it or remove it and toss it into a trash can: rather, to attempt to return it to where it once was, i.e., an actual beating heart and not a war-drum-beating.
________________________
Lastly, you wrote ~
“I’ll go to hell with my righteousness because in the end there are more beautiful things to talk about than how a bunch of people destroyed their lives and those of others.”
_________________
IMO, whoever is ‘righteous’ does not have to go too far to call it ‘going to hell’, actually, a step in any direction from that point of ‘righteous view’ will suffice for ‘being’ in Hell.
And there’s no end, my friend; please do not let the mind fool you into ‘thinking’ that the body’s death is an cessation of the trauma or atmosphere that’s been built up around its playing outward ‘a life’ over top the presence of your soul…
Hell (is) Righteousness; in so many respects we’re all already there, so there’s no traveling to do, but to stand up inside it and let the ice burn: melt yourself and try and allow the external world to Love you a bit: maybe Grandmother too.
________________
I walked a friend’s dog last night: the fact that the dog ‘paid’ me no mind helped me allot; it allowed us to be together while not under the opiate of ‘the we’, i.e., The Needy and The rescuer.
________________
Love to you all
270 …And if you had a little tendency for young pure beautiful girls, so pure and young what on earth could be wrong with that? Isn’t porn legal too?…………………………
Yes and your teachers tells you or other men with similar tendencies that it is illegal now to pursue these tendencies and you can get into prison but after 2006 there will be no rules after 2006? (Here Robert is referring to the “fall of humanity and the world”, which never happened).
Truth? Who knows……
Only Robert and those men who were close to Robert and who spoke with him about these matters knows and could come formward.
Who dares to come forward?
“If anyone around here does not feel responsible for what is still happening inside, I blame you.” (Elena)
Not sure about that one.
Remember that responsibility simply means the ability to have a response. And the ability to respond works much better without weight or guilt. (James).
If you witness crime and you do not act/speak up crime continues. Is not that correct? When we do not speak up do we give permission and allow crimes to continue?
Food for thought.
Elena:
Never mind “admiring” your husband for his fanatical devotion, I do love your passion, girl!
But hey, if Girard recanted the dog thing in public, I might be willing to give him the benefit of doubt and accept that maybe his farts were conscious ones and intentionally “placed” in the air to display his mastery over inner considering and feminine dominance (whatever that means). But I think that’s his dog story and he’s sticking to it, or stuck in it, or stepped in it as the case may be. Arf! Arf! Chomp, Chomp. Wag. Wag. Squat. Squat.
“If you had been told by Robert that you were to become the next conscious being in the last Conscious School on the planet, what would you’ve done for Robert?”
Girlfriend, I am SO glad you said that! That thought process needs to be taken out and aired! What the fuck do you mean by that? What would I do if he just “told” me that? And I didn’t really feel or think he was actually showing me how to do it…he was really just trying to get into my pants? To yank my chain…my leash?
I’d leave him, as soon as I was able. End of story, beginning of new story.
The ‘School” paradox, IMO…the way it is set up…is that if you acutally do become conscious, presumably by your own efforts and with the help of the other fish in in the school, you don’t need anyone to tell you that are conscious, you just know it. You are conscious of it. It is self-evident. You don’t glow in the dark or something. You don’t need to be tapped on the head by someone’s magic wand. That’s just a game. And if the teacher tries to fuck with you, you leave. You jump out of the water and you breathe on your own. Simple as that. Mission accomplished, moving on, good bye. I am taking my marbles and I am leaving the game now, with my balls intact, and not in four pieces fried in glycerin, thank you very much.
Did it ever occur to you, what if the fucker is lying? Then how would you feel? Believe me, it’s your worst nightmare! I just don’t buy the “last conscious school” thing for one nano. Is the sky really falling?
If there has always been “schools” as the fucker claims and sees in yak poop on a cave wall, then why would one think that there would not be schools moving forward into the future? You know, directed by good ole’ c-influence and all, remember? …whose supposed to have humnaity’s best interests at heart? Duh. It’s a con game.
“…there are more beautiful things to talk about than how a bunch of people destroyed their lives and those of others.”
Personally, I am quite content to talk about how to stop a certain man and his followers from further continuing to recruit and destroy the lives of other unsuspecting, sincere, and soon to be bankrupt, souls. That’s a beautiful thing, too. Think of it as soul retrieval. If I were a dog, I’d be a Labrador. (Thanks, Girard.) How it was done is immaterial to me now, but might mean something to certain fish starting to wise up by reading how.
So just in case there are some fish out there who want to know about the nature of water and air…how does the indoctrination happen?…for me it was done with a combination of sleep deprivation, hard physical labor, manipulation, peer pressure, thought reform, and sexual abuse from the leader.
I wouldn’t say my life is destroyed, however I can say the FOF has left its mark on my psyche. Actually it’s more like a smudge, and without going into any more lurid detail than I already have, it’s something I am ashamed of. I would not want anyone to have to go through what I did, and am still dealing with two decades later, and luckily, no two plays are exactly the same. That shit has a delayed response for good reason, as nature intended.
I want you to know that I have forgiven myself and part of my healing is follow through with an aim to speak out in my community in whatever fashion or guise in which I feel comfortable against what is happening to this day in the Galleria or whatever pain palace you want to call it. I couldn’t speak then, and I am now. So I may not appear as chatty to you as you like, don’t take it personally. It’s not about you.
“In fact I will not leave without deeply thanking you for getting me out of the Fellowship and putting up with me for a year.”
Was there a “Thank You” in there? So you are not leaving, then? Because I didn’t actually hear you say, “thank you”, I just heard you talk about it.
I’d rather you stay and could never tire of hearing you, despite the fact that you don’t like hearing yourself. Unoanimo sent you a lovely response; you left a deep impression on him. Nobody is asking or telling you to leave. We are all free here. You’ve already paid enough so it will cost you nothing to stay.
There is plenty of room in here for all of us…in cyberspace. Think of it as infinity. You or I or anyone else can come in here on this blog, the doors always open, and rant and rave and safely release an enormous amount of pain or pleasure or poetry or flame or music or information and links or whatever your big heart desires. Others can choose to read about it and respond or scroll on by. Nobody’s holding a gun to your head, (sorry Shelley).
The deal is: you don’t get to control how people respond to you! We responders can take time, reflect, and respond later, or not, or we get to “shoot from the hip” so to speak, and tell it like it is, if we want to, depending on our style. Btw…THANK YOU, BRUCE, FOR TELLING IT LIKE IT IS! YOU ARE AWESOME, DUDE! And ARTHUR, CHEERS TO YOU ON YOUR DRIVEWAY! (Hey dude, if you enjoy kicking it with a couple of beers, watching the parade go by…dude, I recommend you go to Burning Man. You will have a blast watching that parade, complete with dancing naked ladies. But I digress, I am a guy.)
Me, I enjoy reflecting and digesting what I hear in people on this blog. I let the images and thoughts and cool music and video links and all work on my inner mind, and I watch what bubbles up, usually the next morning. I learn a little something in the process, too. Then I write about it. Freely. So don’t you be trashin’ the blog, girlfriend!
I gotta hand it to you, sheik, you are right, free speech is a dirty business. Here everyone gets to air their dirty linen, if they need to. Then they get to rest on clean sheets. What a great service! I hope it’s a good business for you.
Posts 272, 273 and 274,
I mean I can’t top those, I’m the hillbilly with dogs that look like wolves, sitting in the driveway listening to the sputtering of a diesel engine, signaling as a look out to passing humanity and watching the wind blow.
So, I raise a bottle of beer in salute from the curbside.
Thanks whaleridder for what you are.
Thanks for you post(s).
Still I am listening
to Imogen
Just for now
Get me out of here
Aaaaaah
There is just no out or in
It is just a dream
Maybe the sun is a dream and the sky too….
Hug for all of us.
272 unoanimo
unoanimo -
I started to copy and paste some of what you wrote, but there was so much of it I wanted to do that with it seemed rather silly. I guess I just want to thank you for what you give out.
James, thank you for what you give back.
278 WhaleRider
I will tell you something Whalerider. I have learned a lot from you and unoanimo. You have both influenced me not so much as to ‘what’ I write, but as to the place I try to uncover and find inside, to write ‘from’.
275 arthur
“signaling as a look out to passing humanity and watching the wind blow.”
* * *
It’s a dirty job Arthur, but somebody has to do it!
Uno wrote,
IMO, Magnetic Center is the result of untransformed traumas from one’s soul’s core issuing out some sort of ‘cry’, a type of ‘beacon’:
to me, this is something everyone has to some degree, it’s some function that simply ‘is’ and it gets covered up with layers and layers of blankets:
I picture a person worried that a suffering child is too cold so they keep putting blankets on the child till the weight of the blankets ceases the child’s breathing:
the child remains warm, safe, though in a coma and extremely disturbed because it cannot open its eyes, mouth, ears, hands or heart to itself, it’s conscious will.
I think that ideologies and cult involvement can provide a “deep freeze,” a distancing from unresolved pain of human relationship. Leaving a cult, later growing out of or repudiating its ideology, the old pain, the old identity, re-emerges, out of time, out of context, as from suspended animation. Anaesthetizing that pain served a temporary purpose–it enabled us to get up and around and walking–but it could not properly heal under the ideological bandage. Which is why it has to come off and we have to actually feel the roots of what happened.
quite the group therapy session going on here. i don’t read most of this, especially the long and incoherent posts, but glad this is happening.
stating the obvious: it’s not easy to heal from an unhealthy situation, and move on to a healthy and productive life, if i don’t at least acknowledge the unhealthy situation.
i liken it to a union, where nothing improves unless people join together. want to leave but don’t want to lose your friends?
then lead.
you, that’s right you…
if you’re sitting there — still in — you’re not doing enough. time for you to lead? show some courage. i wish i had.
Maybe in some unfathomable, mysterious and peculiar way it is what we become that is the cause and all that we have experienced the effect.
Fellow Ship of Fools
Statement from Former Member of Fellowship of Friends
8-25-02
Beginning in 1974, I spent 8 years as a member of “Fellowship of Friends” cult in California. Supposedly, we were studying “4th way” ideas, but the “teacher” had his own agenda. Like myself, many members were sincere in seeking a”higher state of being” or what others might call “enlightenment”.
We, of course, were encouraged to shun and have no further contact with former members. However, one day a chance encounter with a “former student” led to the revelation that the “teacher”, Robert Burton, was a homosexual – and quite active at that. At first this information was difficult to believe, since there was a rule against homosexual behavior within the “school” and, further, Burton had indicated that he was celibate! My acquaintance suggested contacting another ex-member who had been in a relationship with the “teacher”, from whom I learned many sordid details regarding Robert Earl Burton.
Robert’s modus operandi was to select the young men who appealed and quickly move them to the “inner circle”; these young men(many were under the age of legal consent) were invited to travel w R.(in grand style) and to live with him at his private residence as a virtual harem. My acquaintance had been married when he entered FOF, however a la King David, Robert quickly dispatched the inconvenient wife to a distant “teaching center” so as to indulge his lust. He informed me that Robert’s appetite for young men was voracious.
My disenchantment was replete when Robert didn’t deny this information. Also others in high positions tried (weakly) to justify his behavior, saying “it was food for his higher centers!!!!!”. Now the young men who disappeared in the night to never be heard from again, the odd sleeping arangements, the endless change of residents at his house, the arranged marriages for former paramours all made sense.
I believe that Robert Burton has harmed and damaged many sincere young men. Those around him who know of this and protect him share in his guilt. He has used his position of power and trust to satisfy his lusts, without regard for the consequences to others. He has invoked higher powers to overcome the objections of unwilling partners, telling them that “higher forces” were thus pleased.
Finally, Robert Burton relished destroying anyone who had the temerity to leave FOF. He had his assistant call me after I had left to inform me that, in his words “I had died”.
“BY THEIR FRUITS YOU SHALL KNOW THEM”. Amen.
Close Encounters of a Third Kind:
The above was third citation on Google when searching on ‘Fellowship of Friends’:
http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/f/fellowship/fmrmbr_statement.htm
How does this above statement fit with this one, below, copied from the beingpresent.org website; last paragraph under the section: The Work of Our Spiritual Teacher???:
‘Developing a personal relationship to the Teacher does not depend upon proximity to him. His influence permeates through all aspects and dimensions of the organization he created, and the moment a person connects to this organization through any channel, he or she will experience the Teacher’s loving influence directly.’
Duplicate post.
Fat Boy 99
Robert’s Teaching for me has brought attention of how to work with both internal and external negativity.
Associated Press 284
He had his assistant call me after I had left to inform me that, in his words “I had died”.
Fat Boy, according to the laws of logic, one of the above statements is not correct. You pick.
Also, if any of you are anywhere near the area, please don’t miss these free shows!
Arcade Fire live are totally amazing (yes, I know I sound like a frikking teenager, because that’s exactly the effect this band has on me)
“Arcade Fire will be playing a free concert on Sunday, March 2nd at Stuart’s Opera House in Nelsonville, Ohio in support of Barack Obama’s bid for the Democratic nomination. The show is at 7 p.m., first come first serve.They will also be playing a free show at the Beachland Ballroom in Cleveland on Monday, March 3rd. Doors are at 7 p.m., and the show is 18 and over, first come first serve.”
282 is newly moderated.
(LONG PAUSE)
OK little fishy. Breathe.
It’s fine to breathe now.
Breathe.
Breathe!
It’s only air.
Time to breathe now.
C’mon, I know you can do this.
Breathe, god damn it!
I said, breathe!
BREATHE!!!!
That empty space you feel inside, those are your new lungs!
Yes!!!!
There you go!
That’s right.
GOOD!
You did it!
Keep breathing, now.
That’s right, in and out, in and out, just like that!
Good, you got it! Good job!
In with the good air, out with the bad air.
Just like that.
Keep going, now.
Change is good.
That wasn’t too hard, now was it?
Yeah, I know, it’s warmer out here, and the light is brighter, too, but you’ll see…you will get used to it….yes, this air stuff seems pretty thin at first…very soon you will adjust. And you will be amazed at the difference. You don’t realize it yet, but you have been swimming in a polluted cesspool and it was starting to make you sick. And those other fishies that left your school…remember that one day when they just up and disappeared?…no, they didn’t die! They’re here, too, and they are doing great! I am one of them! I was once a fish. The big fat blowfish was lying to you. Don’t worry, I’m a vegetarian, I don’t eat fish, or anything else with a face. You’ll be OK.
Now, let’s get you cleaned up. Let’s have a look at you.
Hmmm….Those hardened scales all over you, you don’t need them any more! Those can come off now. And that tail of yours there, in a little while that is going to turn into your own two legs for you to walk on…anywhere your heart desires. And those fins, those are your hands. You’re going to use them to feed yourself.
And that thing you have been repeating over and over in your head? Stop that! You don’t need it anymore, either. That’s what keeps you thinking you’re a fish! In time you will grow to enjoy the silence of a quiet mind. It will be quite a relief, you’ll see.
Yes, you can see further in the air. No, the moon isn’t out to get you either. It’s just the moon, silly, and it’s very, very far away. And no, the sky is not falling, either, those are the stars. Aren’t they beautiful? You couldn’t see the stars very well in that cloudy cesspool, could you? You were so busy being a fish and following the other fish around in your school, that you couldn’t stop and think for yourself. There’s a whole new universe out here, you’ll see. And we are here to help you.
Just keep breathing.
Whalerider 289
“Somehow, with all of this change, we are going to have to learn how to change our minds a little more easily….”
From Pinchbeck who’s managed to capitalize on and contribute to the “2012″ buzz and hype… to the liberation of friends yet trapped by the web of “The Fellowship”– I still hold the hope that this place can make a difference to an individual who’s trying to escape.
“Whether someone does a flawless series of asanas, drinks ayahuasca with 20 different shamans or visits hidden monasteries in Bhutan has no value as a sign of spiritual attainment. How they live day by day, what they do with the psychic energy and time available to them and how their work helps to liberate others is what matters.”
http://commongroundmag.com/2008/03/pinchbeck0803.html
I wonder though; into this night as I lay down and close my eyes to feel what I have experienced today,
how my sense of ‘self’ stays
with this or that event, action, opinion expressed and satisfaction gotten so to alleviate some spirit-tension or to re-justify a kind of self-preservation-ego that’s altogether simply not what my yearning encompasses or wishes.
These ‘wishes’ or true-nature-pangs of bewilderment and dry, greasy coughing on myself, till, too, a sense of slow, heavy raindrops of remorse throb onto me and ‘knock’ like tiny, one-beat-per-lifetime-hearts hitting, sliding down gently to the window seal, where the rest of me, having been the whole window installed, resides, not upside down or right side up;
I am just ‘here’ so to catch-basin them, to give them something to feel after their free-falling eternity, now, here, all being as one quivering, watery flute held, balanced and see-sawing along my wide rectangular shoulders.
Me, to later rise with the assistance of a small child’s reflection and muscles; she lifts me up so to let Space in; myself superimposed on myself, glass page to glass page:
the breeze flows through her hair and a hawk glides, almost from nowhere and lands upon her dresser top…
She wants it to be a ‘male’, yet, it’s not, it’s neither; soon enough it will depart for the first of two last times and return, when she’s not looking, into her shadow-keep, that thin blanket that we all drag around during the day wherever we go and whose frayed ends direct ones attention not to something worn and neglected, rather, accepting of additional patchwork,
a total hem of outstretched fingers belonging to a ‘one hand’ who, when her soul wants it to be ‘right’ will, like one can do with a thin glove, turn it inside out to make it ‘left’ and visa versa.
Yes, the ‘left right’ and the ‘right left’ and the power of Time to make the most superficial contradictions and traumatic projections into some sort of wisdom-poetry…
Little do we know, yet all we can be; while, as Two Inches hears it, ‘it’ sounds like a psychotic raging howl, Eleven Thousand Inches hears ‘it’ as a nearly sensual whisper whose nuances (do) travel through the forest-edge’s leaves, laying restless fledglings lids deeper to sleep.
The ‘We’ ponders, argues, resists and restrains: while the two shadow-keeps intertwine amongst their human drama kin, like strangers whose kites suddenly third-party-swerve to hit and not miss one another’s pulling down of some
awe-on-a-string sense of flight, pressure, control, freedom while looking up and good fortune in the midst of the tempest’s beginning…
And down, straight towards the beach ‘The Caught Up’ dive for, right where you stood that evening, not knowing it, yet, waiting for the hawk to return from having exited to visit ‘another’ you,
the reflection ‘you’ outlined on me while waiting for the storm to end, for the beach to settle its tempestuous mini-whirlpools and once there,
not landing anywhere, I reflect it to myself, the hawk flapping in mid air and looking down:
it’s watching the flute drip and disappear into the grass, where its splashing stirs something, a mouse whose too far from the forest’s edge to have been lulled deep enough to sleep not to be awakened by such small, humid visitors…
And as the hawk lands to welcome the mouse, so do the kites land to greet your footprints and upon those spots all the love in the world stops to stare transparent with me into Space, into Time and into Right Now.
291 unoanimo
It feels like you are getting bigger and better, whatever the hell that means. The last three lines are especially beautifully written.
The mention you made of ‘wishes’ in the earlier part reminded me of this, perhaps because I watched it again recently.
It is something a little different.
These are excerpts from a part of the libretto of “Into the Woods”, a musical by Stephen Sondheim; sung at the end of Act I and Act II. (For those not familiar with the work, it is a collage of several different fairy tales rolled into one.
When you know your wish,
If you want your wish,
You can have your wish,
But you cant’ just wish –
No, to get your wish….
You go into the woods,
Where nothing’s clear,
Where witches, ghosts
And wolves appear.
Into the woods
And through the fear,
You have to take the journey.
Into the woods
And down the dell,
In vain perhaps,
But who can tell.
Into the woods,
Into the woods,
Then out of the woods,
And happy ever after.
Into the woods, you have to grope,
But that’s the way you learn to cope.
Into the woods to find there’s hope
Of getting through the journey.
Into the woods, each time you go,
There’s more to learn of what you know.
Into the woods,
Into the woods,
Then out of the woods,
And happy ever after.
292
______________________
Thank you for sharing what is beautiful for you with me and all, it balances things out a bit in here. In some places within all of us, often times the only newspapers one gets to read is on the bottom of the cage. A cage; it’s the only place where leaving the door open does not let in the breeze.
Incredible James, again, thank you: your quote answers a question that’s been on my spirit for the past several days: and it answers it so to the ‘T’ that it’s a little spooky… The question was actually concerning a ‘wish’, a ‘woods’, a place where ‘nothings clear’, a place where ‘witches, ghosts and wolves’ actually do appear, a ‘the fear’, a ‘journey’, a ‘to learn’, etc, etc.
Amazing! Thank you for the answer-telegram; beautifully given; I truly got my answer and way beyond a doubt.
____________________
:.)
The Public Square is filled with silent souls that don’t need to say anything to know that they are there. In time, they don’t even need Public Squares to know how close they are to each other after touching and not touching each other’s soul so deeply.
Either way the sculpture gets sculpted and gratitude remains the figure.
Thank you Sheik for hosting us in your site. How long will it remain open for us to explore the park and pub, the shops and the homes? It is clear that the Fellowship of Friends is not really our aim but our excuse, we might eventually find other excuses, how long will you let us in?
Every bit of information is still pertinent. I would much appreciate anyone who’ll tell us when the article comes out in the Bee and other madnesses from my friends in voluntary captivity. It must be their way of working with voluntary suffering!
And where’s the music? I’m about to go dancing to say goobye to this country where war is knocking at the door. I take it in me for we’ve always been in a silent and corrupt war. When I was young we’d find the dead men, tied up and with a shot in the head on the road to nowhere early in the morning and one could never walk as a teenager without being terrified of finding the police. Misery does things to people. Any kind of misery. It is a fortunate thing that we can look at misery without judgement, live with it and continue trying to find more human solutions.
There once was a monastery that was very strict. Following a vow of silence, no one was allowed to speak at all. But there was one exception to this rule. Every ten years, the monks were permitted to speak just two words. After spending his first ten years at the monastery, one monk went to the head monk. “It has been ten years,” said the head monk. “What are the two words you would like to speak?”
“Bed… hard…” said the monk.
“I see,” replied the head monk.
Ten years later, the monk returned to the head monk’s office. “It has been ten more years,” said the head monk. “What are the two words you would like to speak?”
“Food… stinks…” said the monk.
“I see,” replied the head monk.
Yet another ten years passed and the monk once again met with the head monk who asked, “What are your two words now, after these ten years?”
“I… quit!” said the monk.
“Well, I can see why,” replied the head monk. “All you ever do is complain.”
Courtesy John Suler, Ph.D.
Enjoy.
JF
Wake up Neo
The Matrix has you
Follow the white rabbit
Knock, Knock, Neo
+++++++++++++++
As you have probably guessed
I am Morpheus
I imagine that right now
You are feeling a bit like Alice
Tumbling down the rabbit hole
I can see it in your eyes
You have the look of a man
Who accepts what he sees
Because he is expecting to wake up
Ironically, this is not far from the truth
Do you believe in fate?
Let me tell you why you are here
You’re here because you know something
What you know you can’t explain
But you feel it
You’ve felt it your entire life
That there is something wrong with the world
You don’t know what it is, but it’s there
Like a splinter in your mind, diving you mad
It is this feeling that brought you to me
Do you know what I am talking about?
The Matrix
Do you want to know what it is?
The Matrix is everywhere
It is all around us, even now in this very room
You see it when you look out your window
Or when you turn on your television
You can feel it when you go to work
When you go to church
When you pay your taxes
It is the world
That has been pulled over your eyes
To blind you from the truth
What truth?
That you are a slave, Neo
Like everyone else you were born into bondage
Born into a prison that you cannot smell or taste or touch
A prison for your mind
Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is
You have to see it for yourself
This is your last chance
After this there is no turning back
You take the blue pill
The story ends
You wake up in your bed
And you can believe whatever you want
You take the red pill
You stay in wonderland
And I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes
Remember
All I am offering is the truth
Nothing more
++++++++++++++++
Neo:
I know you’re out there
I can feel you now
I know that you are afraid
You are afraid of us
You are afraid of change
I don’t know the future
I didn’t come here to tell you how this is going to end
I came here
To tell you how it’s going to begin
I going to hang up this phone
And then I am going to show these people
Want you don’t want them to see
And I am going to show them a world
Without you
A world without rules and controls
Without borders or boundaries
A world
Where anything is possible
Where we go from there
Is a choice
I leave to you
++++++++++++++
From “The Matrix”
A song for you, Elena, and for all you beautiful women, from the beautiful Fiona Apple
“Paper Bag”
I was staring at the sky, just looking for a star
To pray on, or wish on, or something like that
I was having a sweet fix of a daydream of a boy
Whose reality I knew, was a hopeless to be had
But then the dove of hope began its downward slope
And I believed for a moment that my chances
Were approaching to be grabbed
But as it came down near, so did a weary tear
I thought it was a bird, but it was just a paper bag
Hunger hurts, and I want him so bad, oh it kills
‘Cause I know I’m a mess he don’t wanna clean up
I got to fold ’cause these hands are too shaky to hold
Hunger hurts, but starving works, when it costs too much to love
And I went crazy again today, looking for a strand to climb
Looking for a little hope
Baby said he couldn’t stay, wouldn’t put his lips to mine,
And a fail to kiss is a fail to cope
I said, ‘Honey, I don’t feel so good, don’t feel justified
Come on put a little love here in my void,’ he said
‘It’s all in your head,’ and I said, ‘So’s everything’
But he didn’t get it I thought he was a man
But he was just a little boy
Hunger hurts, and I want him so bad, oh it kills
‘Cause I know I’m a mess he don’t wanna clean up
I got to fold ’cause these hands are too shaky to hold
Hunger hurts, but starving works, when it costs too much to love
Hunger hurts, and I want him so bad, oh it kills
‘Cause I know I’m a mess he don’t wanna clean up
I got to fold ’cause these hands are too shaky to hold
Hunger hurts, but starving works, when it costs too much to love
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JB4Al0l6Cuo
A Core ’something’ ~
_______________________________
“Fiona Apple, famous singer/songwriter, was raped outside of her mother’s apartment at the age of twelve. For years after her rape she would check her closets to make sure no one was hiding in the house and would be nervous around older men. And she still continues to have bad, violent dreams. During her teens and the months she spent making her album, Tidal, she suffered with an eating disorder. Frustrated at the misunderstanding by the media of her eating disorder she attempted to explain it in a 1998 Rolling Stone interview, “I definitely had an eating disorder. What was really frustrating for me was that everyone though I was anorexic, and I wasn’t. I was really depressed and self-loathing. For me, it wasn’t about being thin, it was about getting rid of the bait attached to my body. A lot of it came from the self-loathing that came from being raped at the point of developing my voluptuousness. I just thought that if you had a body and if you had anything on you that would be grabbed, it would be grabbed. So I did purposely get rid of it.” As a result of her eating disorder Fiona became extremely thin. But the media wrote off her thinness as an attempt to “fit in.” After her “Criminal” video from her album, “Tidal,” came out she began gaining weight on purpose. She wanted to show the world that she doesn’t care about being thin. In 1998 she said, “I mean, my plan is to gain enough weight that I can really be considered voluptuous, and do my ‘First Taste’ video. And I am preparing myself for what is going to happen. Because soon they will be saying that I’m fat. And it will hurt me.”
When Fiona read her first bad review for Tidal she began scratching her left wrist with the fingernails of her right hand. She scratched all the way up her arm, there are still some dark patches on her wrists, where she dug the deepest. Fiona said, “I have a little bit of a problem with that. It’s a common thing.” When asked if it made her feel better she simply replied, “It just makes you feel.” Fiona also sometimes bites her lips as hard as she can, sometimes until they bleed. “And it’ll be bleeding, and I can’t stop, because it almost feels so good when I bite my lip.” Trying to explain her actions she said, “It was never, like, ‘I am going to hurt myself and put myself in the hospital.’ …It is that I am going to give myself the pain that I need to feel to put the punctuation on this shit that’s going inside.”
Fiona would get frustrated and sad when she feel that people think she’s “crazy.” She says, “The most annoying thing for me to hear about myself is that I’m trying to make people have a pity party for me. Everything that I’ve gone through has been dramatized by the people who’ve written about it, not by me. I’m just saying, ‘This happened to me, this happened to a lot of people.’ Why should I hide shit? Why does that give people a bad opinion of me? It’s a reality. A lot of people do it. Courtney Love pulled me aside at a party and showed me her marks.”
Fiona Apple has become a happier and more confident individual since she talked so frankly about her past self-injury and eating disorder to Rolling Stone. Articles in several magazines and newspapers, including The Washington Post and USA Today, mention different new aspects of Fiona, such as her new take on life, a healthy weight gain and a new-found confidence in herself and her music. In a USA Today interview she said still gets upset when she reads a particularly bad article about herself or review of her music but does not mention any further self-injurious behavior as a result.”
Web Article Quote
______________
Thank you Laura; I used to listen to Fiona Apple allot along with all the other female soloists like Sheryl Crow, Kate Bush, etc. Singing can be the atmosphere surrounding that core ’something’: I would say that something was transferred to her via the rape incident and if that was not enough, perhaps she’s also having to deal with having a part of her soul stolen and ‘it’ being still ‘in the hands’ of the rapist.
If you follow her story at twelve years old and then settle into her songs, the songs themselves begin to seem to me like footsteps around a blazing, blinding ancient fire, wherein one’s essence dances and curls up to hide from the cold world… Yet, perhaps part of the journey is to return to the fire, to cease a certain ‘type’ of dancing and stand up in it and burn for the sake of being able to do it for oneself and not the campfire-concert goers (?)
Too, her songs are magical and I am grateful that they exist to allow others carrying similar ‘trauma cores’ around a chance to rest and expand a bit into the space of themselves, to listen and gain more time to unfold and look.
______
:.)
This is today’s card from Burton.
Now I understand why so many ‘martial’ body types love these kind of BS…….
Plato said that war is a permanent state for
humanity – every work ‘I’ is opposed by mechanical
‘I’s.
Love, Robert
Pensate un attimo:
Plato said that war is a permanent state for humanity-every Fellowship work ‘I’ opposed by conscience and common sense.
Love, Grampa Joe
Pensate un attimo:
Plato said that war is a permanent state for humanity—every attempt to control people’s minds and hearts is opposed by the unquenchable longing of the human soul to be free.
Love, Spirit of the World
Hi folks.
This is some bad news!
It is difficult for me to present it in a level hearted kind of way.
But it is good news for Mrs burton.
So far mine is the only letter to have arrived at Susans and not only that, the much discussed newspaper article is suffering the same fate…….as soon as people found out they had to put their names to it they backed out….. so if there will be an article it will be without testimony from those who matter.
It seems that the majority of ex students are content to go in circles endlessly complaining about injustice, but that when push comes to shove they run with their tails between their legs.
I think disappointment is one of the emotions I feel at the moment however there are others.
It seems that butman and his close friends have still a powerful hold on the vast majority of folks here which is witnessed by the need for anonymity.
Shame is a powerful controlling tool which many seem to be under and also fear.
This is being written from the freshly produced state of the bad news and so is not maybe as level as it might have been later.
Come on people come out of your shells drop your anonymity and take a stand!
The petition will still be posted without the removal of the “allegedly’s” I will give it another week just in case any of you suddenly sprout balls…….
Once its posted and collected some signatures it will be sent to the list provided by x-ray and I’ll move on to something else.
Although our common complaints here are valid there are many things as bad and worse on a larger scale taking place.
This is one small area that we have the power to clean up and I believe any effort that we make counts towards improving the whole.
There are so many things that people get away with, that slide by because of apathy or lack of information, its not a particularly good example but did you know that the Washington Times is owned by the Rev. Sun Yung Moon, that 1849 california law states there will be no tax on citizens ever, The c i a brought tons of cocaine into america through mena arkansas, the clintons have a trail of deaths longer than your arms in their wake, the bush family backed hitler financially, mk ultra was and is real , cancer cures exist and have been suppressed, the pentagon lost a trillion dollars just before nine eleven etc etc etc.
The Fellowship is something we CAN well at least I thought so …..make a difference with, but maybe I was wrong.
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
(PUBLIC LAW 95-79 [P.L. 95-79] TITLE 50, CHAPTER 32, SECTION 1520 “CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WARFARE PROGRAM. The use of human subjects will be allowed for the testing of chemical and biological agents by the U.S. Department of Defense, accounting to Congressional committees with respect to the experiments and studies. The Secretary of Defense [may] conduct tests and experiments involving the use of chemical and biological [warfare] agents on civilian populations)
no kkkiding and do you seriously think you will get a warning.
Have you heard of the Georgia guide stones….have you read them.
“maintain the population of the planet at five hundred million”
but wait a minute there are around six billion of us now,
that means………
Im done
I always feel better after an emotional evacuation.
Jack.
oh… and all the fucking best.
If only five percent of this is true
then its five percent too much,
strange synchronicity if you see the banner at the very end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP84c_IvbXQ&feature=related
j x
jack 302
wow! how incredibly disappointing!
Since my mind usually tries to compensate for bad news with positive imagery, after reading your words the impression resurfaced of one far away night at the Town Hall, watching as you stormed off stage at the end of a scene of the Antigone… It really struck me, because your rage seemed and felt so real. I couldn’t tell if it was excellent acting or the manifestation of something personal and deep (possibly both).
I suppose that is one of the few memories I have of a man showing his balls in the Fellowship of Friends.
This news is a sad testimony to, among other things, the lame state of the modern western male.
I mean, take no offence guys, but, really?
What the fuck!
I am joining the Writers’ Strike.
Nite nite everyone
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EfW4akOjmqA
Hello Jack ~
Perhaps you could P.S. Susan’s contact information (again) for those who may have been inspired by your above posts (?)
And the site where to send various correspondences to you as well (?)
And the site and email where the glitch with the Sacramento Bee can be attended too as well (?)
_________
Sometimes the well is out of water because you don’t have a bucket.
________________________________
:.)
Hi uno.
As previously explained for anyone who cares enough to make the effort scroll to the top of the page click on wiki space then click on petition at the left and scroll to the bottom where you can find susans address and my e-mail. However there is no need to send anything directly to me unless you just want to chat.
As to the sac bee info I will take a look back and see where it is.
later.
Jx
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oszATUJ4IRE
awakening involves becoming free of illusions.
jeez that took ages,
had to go back through three pages, and it just reminded me how much effort we have all put into these pages.
Thanks for the fish….
Seriously so many wonderful contributions towards this hydra. thanks thanks you wonderful people.
Finally found it though.
Todd Milbourn
Reporter
The Sacramento Bee
(916) 321-1063
tmilbourn@sacbee.com
……………………………………………………………………………………
Laura
maybe it is just a lack of stamps.
Back when you were away I think attending a funeral, I posted this as payback to you and you may have missed it so just in case.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe5p1BXNCQM&feature=related
Ah well back to counting sequins.
jx
Jack:
Thank you for your effort. Susan, thank you, too.
I spoke to Todd. He seemed more interested in what current members had to say. I thanked him, too.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I enjoy fishing. Ever been fishing when you were a boy? When the conditions are right, some fish will even jump right in your boat, but usually not while the boat is docked.
I don’t have any information to send to Susan. And, I’ve about unwrapped myself from around the axle concerning the Fellowship of Friends. Thanks to the Sheik and 30 pages of discussions.
I did receive an e-mail advertisement that struck my fancy. It was about a trip to South America that included a paraphrase from entheogen explorer Terence McKenna who said, “you can either sweep out the ashram for 12 years or use entheogens and reach the same place”.
Robert Burton the leading figure of the fellowship of friends has never learned how to sweep. Because of this he and his followers will remain deluded for how many life-times? Not to lessen anybody’s pain factory of reminders but those poor things in the fellowship of friends have horrible fates.
In my opinion.
Disappointment…?
Yes, and then the sky was still blue
And the sun fierce looking me in the face
A voice whispered in my ear
Maybe better so?
Time will tell?
Thanks all of you here.
Obama: the Kool-Aid is wearing off.
Dear Laura,
Looks like we are even more transparent than we think we are and you are a reader of crystals! Thank you! I’m back in the States and it feels good to be here. Now that I finally have a decent computer you cannot possibly abandon us because I intend to listen to every youtube you post for the simple joy of it!
Here is a fragment of an Argentinian love Folk song that you all might enjoy!
As the light that kisses the morning
born in a night without stars
I come to your always
without batting my wings
to offer you to fly with them.
No more do I offer you,
because the impossible
dies in silence when I know how to look at you
and there is nothing with which to compare you
even if the nothingness makes itself available.
or an Aztec poem that was read at the beginning of a poetry festival, that I use to share in the Fellowship:
I’ve come Oh Friends,
with Guacamaya feathers I adorn you
with gold I paint,
with music and songs
to the community
I give myself.
What is the blog but a giving of ourselves to whom was unable to value what we had to give? But the gift is as much to the giver and we recreate our selves in the gesture. Nothing is lost.
Jack, don’t worry. The mi-fa interval is necessary. Everything is alright. Things will start to happen as soon as they are ripe enough. It’s one year against thirty five but what a year! You’ll get my letter before the tenth, as I said. We will not pass unheard and we’ve already heard each other.
Arthur ~
Thank you. Things will get going… I will help push.
Bruce and Whalerider: I thought you guys were going to contribute your personal stories and signatures to this?
Every red carpet has an underside; so let’s flip it over, shall we?
________
:.)
P.S. Arthur ~
Please post Susan Zannos’s email address too; also, it would be good to have it on the petition page as well… Did you know that these days emails are considered ‘legal writings/documents’ and can be used? So, it would be only right to post her email as a sort of medium-space for inquiries, adjustments, etc. She can also get a ‘gmail’ address specifically for receiving inquiries and responses in relation to the Petition.
_______________
:.)
Hi folks
thanks.
Uno in relation to your suggestion, I will ask Susan about it, if she doesnt read this directly and respond.
…………………………………………………………………………………
And re Gmail….
(Matt Cutts, a software engineer at Google since January 2000, used to work for the National Security Agency.
Keyhole, the satellite imaging company that Google acquired in October 2004, was funded by the CIA.”
“We are moving to a Google that knows more about you.” — Google CEO Eric Schmidt, February 9, 2005
Google’s relationships with government officials in all of the dozens of countries where they operate are a mystery, because Google never makes any statements about this. But here’s a clue: Google uses the term “governmental request” three times on their terms-of-use page and once on their privacy page. Google’s language means that all Gmail account holders have consented to allow Google to show any and all email in their Gmail accounts to any official from any government whatsoever, even when the request is informal or extralegal, at Google’s sole discretion. Why should we send email to Gmail accounts under such draconian conditions? )
(The phrasing and qualifiers in the Gmail privacy policy are creepy enough, but nothing in any of Google’s policies or public statements applies to those of us who don’t have Gmail accounts. Google has not even formally stated in their privacy policy that they will not keep a list of keywords scanned from incoming email, and associate these with the incoming email address in their database. They’ve said that their advertisers won’t get personally identifiable information from email, but that doesn’t mean that Google won’t keep this information for possible future use. Google has never been known to delete any of the data they’ve collected, since day one. For example, their cookie with the unique ID in it, which expires in 2038, has been tracking all of the search terms you’ve ever used while searching their main index.)
Big G is watching you…..
“just because I’m paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get me”.
J x
Hi again.
There appears to be a little confusion regarding the needed response.
I have posted what we require but can understand that posts quickly get buried ,so perhaps I’d better re-iterate it on the blog periodically.
What is needed now are actual hand written letters directly pertaining to the points preceded by “allegedly” in the petition. These letters are to be sent to Susan at her address on the bottom of the petition page on the wiki site, who will pass them on to the lawyer once they have accumulated as he said he would not deal with individual letters.
He will then check to see if they are legal enough to remove the “allegedly’s”.
So what I suggested is that we look at the petition and see if we can make a response to any of these alleged points.
It may be that there just aren’t any of us with factual knowledge that they can testify to in relation to those specific issues.
My letter testifies to being sexually harassed and to carrying undocumented funds from abroad, which addresses two of the points.
The wiki site also shows the form the letter needs to have in order to be legally valid….. where there’s a will there’s a way.
The guy in this short film inspires me.
.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYaIW-FBAQc&feature=related
all the best
jack
ps will inform about Susans decision re e-mail address unless she beats me to it.
It is technically not necessary for what is required here as its real, paper, non virtual letters we have been asked to provide.
Hi, maybe it’s off-topic already but I read part 1 and 2 of this huge FOF blog (and some comments of this part while scrolling down to here). I think it’s great.
Just to say that I was a FOF member between 1981 and 1984 and I lived and “worked” in several teaching centres in Europe. To cut a long story short, during that time I somehow learnt the concept of making intellectual and “spiritual” efforts to be more aware, in a honest way, learnings which in a few years led me to leave, of course. In my case, RB’s system was counterproductive. I mean, if you were just a little bit conscious would you join the FOF?
But I was young, it was fun, I travelled, met Robert (that couple of days were decisive regarding my decision to leave), met all the “inner-circle-dinosaurs” at that time, and made really good friendships -ephimerous but very profound-.
Those years were subjectively very important, so much so that it took me years to wipe the “teachings” out of my intelect and emotions.
For starters, I began to avoid at all costs thinking or expressing myself in FOF language. It was hard (I was reading the works of G and O many years before meeting the FOF). But ultimately is a matter of semantics, I think.
Secondly, I tried not to feel guilty, or having the feeling of being outcasted. That is not very difficult. If “C influence” is a fact, it was the force that told me not to to deal any longer with that organization.
Probably in the past, one’s “possible evolution” required organized schools, nowadays probably not.
Sorry for my crap english.
Good luck!
duh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYaIW-FBAQc&feature=related
didnt leave enough space.
jx
Jack ~
Perhaps what mankind has not ‘paid’ attention to in regards to the ‘conspiracy’ surrounding his or her heart and individual sense of presence and conscience, he and she has rightly superimposed upon the external world as a result… There’s a price to be paid to enter one’s heart and the Earth is being charged this fee, including its inhabitants (mankind included).
The fee is also being ‘covered’ by credit agencies (Heaven and Hell, Hope, Faith, etc.) Perhaps some day the worry over the superimposed ‘look-a-like’ will fade and the projectors will be consciously unplugged and not by a reckless blackout; then again, sometimes even in the throes of recklessness one can land in the arms of a ‘certain something’ who most likely started the stampede in the first place.
Take care Jack and check out, from time to time, the scaffolding side of the Drive-In Theater’s Screen.
_________________________________________
l.t.y.a.
317 is newly moderated.
Whalerider:
“Elena “If you had been told by Robert that you were to become the next conscious being in the last Conscious School on the planet, what would you’ve done for Robert?”
Girlfriend, I am SO glad you said that! That thought process needs to be taken out and aired! What the fuck do you mean by that? What would I do if he just “told” me that? And I didn’t really feel or think he was actually showing me how to do it…he was really just trying to get into my pants? To yank my chain…my leash?
I’d leave him, as soon as I was able. End of story, beginning of new story”
Whalerider,
You talk as if you had never been in the Fellowship of Friends. What did you not do for Robert when he asked?
WE ALL DID MORE THAN HE ASKED because we thought he was a conscious being. We wanted to believe him and change the world we knew before him. The fact that we made our world a lot worse than it already was, just shows the degree to which we deceived ourselves.
No one left or stayed without getting raped.
Of course, now that we are out here and after a year of processing and recovering one’s self, (for it was the “self” what had been lost) it almost looks like a fascinating experience to have lived through and have no regrets about.
It is knowing that other innocent potential students might join and go through it that does not allow me to rest. I don’t mind if they decide to go through it knowingly but not ignorant like we were.
Whalerider: “The ‘School” paradox, IMO…the way it is set up…is that if you acutally do become conscious, presumably by your own efforts and with the help of the other fish in in the school, you don’t need anyone to tell you that are conscious, you just know it.”
The School paradox is that we were willing to believe him because the human beings of today know that they must recover the community to be. We were beginners and did it naively but the impulse was so powerful it is even stronger now! And we are a lot less naive! This poor blog in which we’ve burnt each other’s balls in glycerine is in fact, a genuine community! It gives me great pleasure and joy to have met you all.
As you said, there is no need to respond to this post or any. They are written for all of us and the response comes in one form or another.
So love!
hi Uno
I am coming from the back side of all three screens.
lty.
jx
“It is knowing that other innocent potential students might join and go through it that does not allow me to rest. I don’t mind if they decide to go through it knowingly but not ignorant like we were.”
To avoid misunderstandings: No one in his sane self would “knowingly” stay or join the Fellowship of Friends.
Jack and Uno,
Sometime back Jack gave us an e-mail address for the purpose of signing the e-petition? I sent my name in to that address. Also, sometime later someone else asked for us to send our names in to sign the e-petition. I did that one too.
I went to the wikispace and couldnt find where to sign the petition. So, I guessed you had to sign in first. They asked for my username and password. The first thing that entered my mind was, “what’s a user name”?
Anyway I tried several usernames and all were rejected. So, explain to me in pre-kindergarden language WTF is it I’m suppose to do?
DISCLAIMER: the following is not an attack and is for the sake of discussion purposes only:
“It seems that the majority of ex students are content to go in circles endlessly complaining about injustice, but that when push comes to shove they run with their tails between their legs.”
“I AM NOT AN ANIMAL!”
That made me feel like the Elephant Man as he was being hounded by a mob attempting to remove his mask and reveal his ugliness.
I guess Girard’s dog analogy still sticks, too.
Speaking for myself, I don’t particularly feel I am going in circles here. Why dance around the bush? Eventually the bush will catch fire.
I go for the gut of any fence sitters reading this blog. Remove the support and the tower will fall. It’s already leaning.
And why rely on some bureaucratic monolith to do this work for us by calling for an investigation? Investigations take lots of time and will, which usually allows the perp enough of a window to cover their tracks and switch tactics.
If anyone is unclear about what it will take:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM
Watch the clip. It can be done. There must be sustained pressure.
For a faster response, some brave and intrepid whistle blower needs to copy some files and walk into the IRS or INS housed in your local “Federal Building”. That doesn’t take a village, just one or two people with a conscience still functioning.
Elena:
“What did you not do for Robert when he asked?”
You tell me. You were a member longer than I.
Da Whalerider.
I understand and its funny I had mentally removed that tail between the legs ref as I felt it was distasteful, but in the heat of the moment hadn’t actually.
excuse it please, I’ll scan before submitting in future.
——————————————————————————
Arthur.
I had the same problem setting up a user name and it just goes to show how un unique we are…. eventually i got in by using the first letters of an unflattering sentence in which I was cursing the programmer.
………………………………………………………………………………….
*All of us are lying drunk in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.*
Don’t know who said that and no association to any of you guys intended.
jx
Petition:
Folks, it is real simple. You do NOT need a username or password. The petition is here
http://fellowshipoffriends.wikispaces.com/Petition
Read the petition. Figure out what, in your direct personal experience, applies to the points softened now by the word “allegedly”.
Open a document. Write your direct experience (not what you believe or guess or have heard), end it with the legal bit at the end as described on the petition page, print it, sign it, send it in to Susan ASAP at the address listed on that page.
That’s all.
You only need a username if you wish to become an editor of those wiki pages.
when I left scotland
the girl upstairs, a pretty young thing with a two year old son, had just had all her teeth pulled because of her “habit”.
Smack, as its called there, was cheaper and more easily availiable than hashish.
It was after all the city where the movie Train spotting was filmed.
The soundtrack to the vid below is of Freddie Mercury who I never much liked but he has grown on me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hKTyoAdfiY
jx
Whalerider,
I guess I lost you! To be honest I’ve never understood the dog thing with Girard that you are talking about but I’ll take a guess. Is it that he behaves like a dog before Robert? I’ve already read it a few times and it hasn’t come through so could you explain in simpler language? For non English speakers?
To be more honest, Girard may be Robert’s guard dog, pet dog, you name it, but Robert new enough to never actually touch him. Does it not make a difference?
I do not really know what your take is in all this. Girard is Girard and it is not as if I’ve been trying to protect him, are you? And yet, the side that really matters to me is the human side and as criminal as I consider both Robert and Girard I would not wish either one of them any harm. To be put in jail for a few years is good for meditation! I do not consider that a harm for criminals. It would not give me the slightest joy to see Girard be put in jail but that doesn’t mean I think he would not deserve it. He brainwashes people all over the world to make them give money to support not a conscious school but an unconscious brothel.
Setting up a whole community to provide Robert Burton with young males is a crime to me no matter where.
The other aspect that matters to me is the human aspect, in fact it is in the only aspect that really matters to me! We all consented to Robert, Girard, the Fellowship of Friends and each other. Or Miles in your time. The fact that we wished to believe in a Conscious possibility matters to me more than all the failures we encountered. I will not allow the failures to make me bitter or lose hope. I have seen too much beauty to ever again deny it.
Nor am I interested in going for anyone’s guts. Your neck will sufice!……with kisses!
As for the intrepid whistle blower, what files? Why haven’t we gone yet?
So lo…….ve!
Elena, Whalerider’s referring to this:
Page 576, “Creating A ‘Soul’”:
“In particular, if he [Robert Earl Burton] knows what he is doing and we don’t, we have no basis for judging or doubting him. Instead, we simply have to trust him, as a child trusts his parents, or dog trusts its master. If he asks us to do things which seem to have no connection to awakening–or even to be ‘wrong’–we have no choice but
to do them anyway.”
“To be put in jail for a few years is good for meditation! I do not consider that a harm for criminals.”
_______________________________________________
As if you’d know (?)
_______________
:.}
Thanks Veronicapoe, so I did get the gist of what it meant and is that not what I’ve been exposing for a year now?
Uno, what do you know what I know. Good bait love but this ain’t the place to bite on that one! Uno, where is my book? May I still have a chance to collect it with coffee and cake? It would be fun to visit Oregon House after all these years! If you gave it away I’d still like cake and coffee, even if its just “Cake Please”!
Glad to know you are here! It is a beautiful sunny day in San Francisco. This land of yours is ever so attractive! And the people even more so.
Elena ~
I still have your book: wrapped in its new vacuum sealed sleeve or womb…
I guess it depends on how long you are in California: I am not in American at this time… So, well… We will meet I am sure, there’s a shaman I wish to meet that’s someplace near the Farc (guerilla) and right-wing paramilitaries and the colombian armed forces, supported by us contractors..
After they do their ‘dance’ (if they do) I would like to cut my hair shorter, tan up and do a recon.
Cake and coffee?
Just for the record, I usually do not eat sweets with my coffee or take sugar, just milk: how about you?
____________
:.)
Just for the fun of sharing.
So many years
Heard what I should do
What I should be
What I am not
So tired
Just want to be loved
Accepted
No expectations
Simple be what I am
Finally?
What a delusion to acknowledge that the person who was your teacher for many years is so wrong:
today’s daily card
There are many mysteries in the universe, but none
can compare to completing a sequence and being a
conscious being.
…if there was the possibility to sign a petition for wrong spiritual teaching I would do it…..but MR Burton ’spiritual’ ignorance will remain unpunished…and still many people are trapped in this illusion that they will become conscious beings in one of these lifetimes without never thinking who will become conscious. Who is this individual? what is?….does it exist? Is the me real? Burton forgot the very question of all questions , the essence of all spiritual teachings….Who/what am I?
Hello Jack ~
Can you hear the closet door creaking? I can.
_____________________________________
I hope my signed story and legal commitment to The State of California being put towards getting rid of the ‘Allegedly-s’ assists in the birth of The Petition into a more real dimension of human and spirit context and not just literature about books most likely written, though never found…
And that it inspires others to test their hinges.
Onwards
____________
:.)
Uno
Gracias!
Diaphanous wings are unfolding in a number of hidden places.
j x
Joe more than average.
thanks for clarifying.
jx
Susans
E-mail is up on the wiki space, at the bottom of the page with the petition, next to mine, please dont hesitate to ask any questions you might have to either of us.
……………………………………………………………………………………..
“Thus, a good man, though a slave, is free; but a wicked man, though a king, is a slave. For he serves, not one man alone, but, what is worse, as many masters as he has vices.”
– St. Augustine, City of God
jx
Pensate un attimo:
“There are many mysteries in the universe, but none
can compare to completing a sequence and being a
conscious being.”
What utter bullshit! If completing a sequence is the answer, where’s the mystery?
There are many mysteries in the universe, but none
can compare to the mystery of how anyone can still realistically think that Robert Burton is a conscious being and give him money.
Love, 15,000 ex-FOFers all around the planet
There is conscious being but nobody is one.
From The Bhagavad Gita
“Work hard in the world, but for work’s sake only. You have every right to work but you should not crave the fruits of it. Although no one may deny you the outcomes of your efforts, you can, through determination, refuse to be attached to or affected by the results, whether favorable or unfavorable.
The central points of issue are desire and lack of inner peace.
Desire for the fruits of one’s actions brings worry about possible failure – the quivering mind I mentioned. When you are preoccupied with end results you pull yourself from the present into an imagined, usually fearful future. Then your anziety robs your energy and, making matters worse, you lapse into inaction and laziness.
One does not accomplish great ends in some by-and-by future, O Warrior. Only in the present can you hammer out real achievement. The worried mind tends to veer from the only real goal…”
That being said, no one would be more pleased than me if Bobby gets what (s)he deserves in this lifetime (e.g. a good thrashing). It’s not group therapy, it’s more like “Get your Ya-Ya’s Out.”
I gotta tell you the truth
When it comes to bullshit
Big time, major league BULLSHIT
You have to stand in AWE
Of the all time CHAMPION
Of false promises and exaggerated claims
RELIGION!!!
THINK about it
Religion has actually CONVINCED people
That there is an INVISABLE MAN
LIVING in the SKY who watches EVERYTHING you do
Every MINUTE of every DAY
And the invisible man has a special list
Of TEN things He does NOT want you to do
And if you do ANY of these ten things
He has a SPECIAL PLACE
Full of FIRE and SMOKE and BURNING
And TORTURE and ANGUISH
Where He will SEND you
To LIVE and SUFFER and BURN and CHOKE
And SCREAM and CRY
Forever and ever until the end of TIME
But He LOVES you!
He LOVES you and He NEEDS MONEY!
He always NEEDS MONEY!
He is all POWERFUL, all PERFECT
All KNOWING and all WISE
But SOMEHOW
He just CAN’T manage MONEY!
Religion takes in BILLIONS of dollars, they pay NO taxes
And they always need a LITTLE MORE!
Now you talk about a GOOD bullshit story?
HOLY SHIT!!!!
~George Carlin
IS REINCARNATION A FACT ?
Is that what heaven is really like?
There were two lovers, who were really into spiritualism and reincarnation.
They vowed that if either died, the other one remaining would try to contact the partner in the other world exactly 30 days after their death.
Unfortunately, a few weeks later, the young man died in a car wreck. True to her word, his sweetheart tried to contact him in the spirit world exactly 30 days later.
At the seance, she called out, “John, John, this is Martha. Do you hear me?”
A ghostly voice answered her, “Yes Martha, this is John. I can hear you.”
Martha tearfully asked, “Oh John, what is it like where you are?”
“It’s beautiful. There are azure skies, a soft breeze, sunshine most of the time.”
“What do you do all day?” asked Martha.
“Well, Martha, we get up before sunrise, eat some good breakfast, and there’s nothing but making love until noon. After lunch, we nap until two and then make love again until about five. After dinner, we go at it again until we fall asleep about 11 p.m.”
Martha was somewhat taken aback. “Is that what heaven really is like?”"Heaven? I’m not in heaven, Martha.”
“Well, then, where are you?” “I’m a rabbit in Arizona.”
Jack x
Jack (or Jackrabbit), you choose ~
Priceless posting! Thank you.
Nobody can irritate you without your permission .
Bill board on 20 towards Marysville
Concious being all around.
Just in case it might make things easier for those who wish to respond in an effort to clear “alleges” from the petition posted on wikispace:
Susan Zannos
2520 Madera Circle #106
Port Hueneme, CA 93041
(805) 984-7975
Cell (805) 824-5588
e-mail:
I don’t know whether e-mail testimony is acceptable to the lawyer for whom these letters are being collected, but am certainly willing to print out such communications if there are any. So far the only letter I have received is from Jack.
I will try to repost the above information every 100 posts or so in hopes that anyone wishing to clear an “allege” will have it to hand.
Well, that’s strange. The blog won’t accept my e-mail address.
So, OK, my e-mail is the name zannos with an extra s for susan. So, zannoss. It is a yahoo.com address.
A large number of men were cult-raped in the Fellowship of Friends by a psychopathic manipulator while they were under the compelling force of indoctrinating spiritual fabrications and those that were not physically raped stood by and continue to stand by ignoring the scale of the criminal abuse because they have been seduced by the promise of personally experiencing a profoundly gratifying sense self-importance. This is the hook of this and any cult, that we otherwise not only inconsequential ordinary people, but in many cases actually malfunctioning individuals, get to live in a dream world where suddenly we are the center of the universe’s hopes and aspirations. Those that were and are cult-raped by the psychopathic manipulator are regarded as sacrificial unfortunates that the most important man alive deserves to consume as a reward for creating a location where all the greatest and humblest people on the planet can congregate and celebrate their divine loveliness. This is what those that remain in this hideous collection of dupes are addicted to, they are addicted to the lie that they are not as they always felt about themselves throughout their dysfunctional existence, they are not the slightly malformed and ill-fitting kook that feels himself left out of the mainstream, but are instead the spiritual cream of the crop assembled around the greatest man alive. Nothing will convince them otherwise because then they would have to face the actual truth, that they spent so many years in a perverted fantasyland where the king of the crazies raped, cunningly robbed, outright lied to and near effortlessly manipulated broken and pitiable people desperate to find meaning in a world they never felt a part of due to one psychological disadvantage or another. Of course we were/are emotionally disadvantaged otherwise we would never have settled into one of the thousands of cults that collect the damaged people of society. Naturally such a group is going to instantly come to the conclusion that they have been hand selected by the avenging angels to ultimately reign in heaven and a few hundred cult-rape victims are justifiable considering how important the “school” is. Nothing in the real world can shake many of these inmates of fantasy’s prison out of their satisfying, stupefying delusion.
Hello ‘hardtruth’ ~
Perhaps your story and signature support of the Petition might assist the balance within yourself a bit (?), if its applicable for you to do so (?)
I support and ‘hope’ that anyone who in the past had the strong heart-impulse to support the Petition with their story and signature ‘when it’s ready’, which, it is ready BTW, will try and do so; such an action will ‘touch’ the traumas the Fellowship of Friends provided so much a prolonging and hiding atmosphere for and a change is likely, otherwise, I wish you all the best in how you manage to stand up within that dark place and move outwards, closer to your own heartbeat.
_____________________
Love to you all.
Hardtruth (346),
I’ve been told that when use someone else words you acknowledge them somehow. I’m not.
“Fucking Unbelieveable”.
I think the theme of this blog is a correct one: we are all the sheiks of INNER CONFUSION.
hardtruth:
“Nothing in the real world can shake many of these inmates of fantasy’s prison out of their satisfying, stupefying delusion.”
Are you sure about that, my friend?
There are only two ways to motivate people to change:
1) Fear, pain or suffering (-)
2) Self-interest (+)
So here’s the dilemma: most FOF followers are trained like dogs to avoid any ‘negativity’, hence I wager that few followers are reading this blog….which means you and I are mostly punching at air and preaching to the choir.
The leader has also trained them to believe that any fear, pain or suffering that he sadistically imposes upon them is “good for their evolution”. People who stay for many years develop thick, scaly skin and the group becomes mostly populated with masochistic followers, eager to suffer at their own expense to further the unhealthy narcissism that they are the chosen ones. (They are chosen, but not for the reasons they think.) They are indeed stuck and content to remain stuck.
The village well is poisoned and drinking the water makes everyone act crazy. If everyone in the village is acting crazy, then the few healthy people who refuse to drink seem like the crazy ones and are shunned.
For myself, I decided that it was in my best interest to leave out of healthy narcissism, rather than become a sex slave or go off salary and/or take a job in life that I didn’t enjoy, bankrolling Robert’s fun and games. (Often it takes the right combination of both negative and positive motivators.)
Since FOFers are somewhat numb to negativity, somehow, someway, followers must be motivated by the realization that it is in their best self-interest to shun Robert for a better, healthier, more productive life. Then the ivory tower will fall.
But taking that first step by yourself and setting out alone on the long road to freedom seems almost impossible once you have been a follower for so long.
Any constructive ideas in that noodle of yours or do you like pissing in the wind like a cat named dog?
Hardtruth,
Thank you for saying the hardtruth so clearly. I have no idea why the responses you are getting are challenging you without regard for what you’re saying, maybe it accounts from past posts that I did not dwell in, probably dwelling on something else, but it does seem that you are saying the same thing Whalerider, Unoanimo, I and many others here have been saying and somehow if it is not their own they are not willing to support it. Very strange!
I must say, it is wonderful to find someone as aggressive and clear and non condescendant as you are expressing yourself on this post and getting it all together in that short length is also admirable! I’ve needed a thousand posts and a year to say the same thing! Maybe we helped each other, a year later it is less difficult but it proves that we have it very clear by now.
Thank you also for the song; it has the sweet simplicity of an “oldie.”
We might be punching at air and preaching at the choir Whalerider but we are also building a way of communicating with each other or banning each other from the podium like Robert Burton does for no other reason than taking the whole space for himself. And it is clear there is no one as psychotic to do that here no matter how talented we think we are.
Have a great day!
Maybe someone can pass out flyers in the Castro district inviting everyone to I’s I’s in a lingo that’s appealing. Special invites to the cross dressers. Can you imagine the fun Robert would have. Can you imagine the flowerly romp at the Oregon House library?
Just found this on Greater Fellowship for anyone interested:
REICH AND GURDJIEFF:
Sexuality and the Evolution of Consciousness
by David M. Brahinsky, Ph.D
David Brahinsky has been a student of the Fourth Way and the work of Wilhelm Reich since the mid 1960s. He received a Ph.D. in Philosophy in 1976 from the State University of New York at Binghamton and has been teaching philosophy and comparative religion at various Colleges since 1969. He is the director of the Akhaldan II School for Fourth Way studies (609 443-1898).
————————————————————————————————————–
INTRODUCTION
The main subject of this book is the relationship between sexual health and spiritual evolution. Specifically, the book focuses on Wilhelm Reich’s discoveries regarding sexual health and G. I. Gurdjieff’s concept of spiritual evolution. The thesis is that spiritual evolution, in Gurdjieff’s sense, is not possible apart from sexual health as Reich determined it.
Although contemporaries, there is no reason to believe that Reich and Gurdjieff knew each other or of each other’s work. Reich was a natural scientist, a student and colleague of Freud who began his career in 1919. He made more discoveries of a revolutionary nature than seems possible for one man to realize in a lifetime, the most significant achievement being the discovery of a biological and cosmic energy he called “orgone energy.”
Until recently I have to say that I was still attracted to sociopaths or psychopaths and had a difficult time seeing them for what they were. There seem to be many people with problems like this to some degree, and some more than others. Many are charismatic and quite charming.
After leaving the FOF, I had a few more life situations where I became very attracted to and ‘trusted’ another sociopath.
I believe the more your intuition kicks in (which has been buried in the Fellowship) you follow what you already know to be true and mistakes made regarding the integrity and intent of individuals beome quite evident.
This has taken some time and more painful ‘plays’ but I feel I am on the other side of it now. However, I still see the tendency within myself to be attracted to individuals like this.
Many of us are ‘in our head’ so much of the time we miss intuitive thoughts. I have found the more time I spend in silence, whether it be out in nature, or just trying to sit with myself, quietly, the better I am at making good judgment and sound decisions.
Are my hoops showing? (just a little joke!)
346 is newly moderated.
Elena: Well, another coincidence, I have been considering whether to write a short note on Reich on Animam Recro for the past two days. A good introduction is here: http://www.guba.com/watch/2000909744
Here is a suggestion for a ‘header’ for an article by some gutsy reporter:
BIZARRE SEX CULT OPERATING AS A NON-PROFIT RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION IN THE SIERRA FOOTHILLS.
Below the headline will be the picture of the ginormous stiffy emblazonning the Galleria ceiling and some choice quotes from some of the locals:
“There ain’t no ‘cooter where it’s aimin’ Amos.”
“It’ll get meaner than a bag of badgers around here if they try changin’ the name to Orgone House.”
“There ain’t no ‘cooter where it’s aimin’ Amos.”
Wasn’t this a Ray Walston song cut from the film version of “Paint Your Wagon?” I think I’ve seen it in the DVD extras.
Sheik, what a gift! Thank you. I spent a long time learning French because I couldn’t find his books in Spanish when I was eighteen. It is good to know that we are all alive and well!
What a fun place this is!
I have found the more time I spend in silence, whether it be out in nature, or just trying to sit with myself, quietly, the better I am at making good judgment and sound decisions.
Thanks wulswu,
Simple and feels right.
About OH
Many In and outies are confused and hurt….even if they say the opposite.
Everybody has needs, respect, being heard, appreciated and much more.
Patience, more fellowship of friends students are jumping of the fence. No hurry as the wind blows its own speed.
A charter school seems to come.
Bri-n G-n z seems to play in Marysville in April. We will keep you informed. Be kind at the post office and OH store. We all need kindness.
Many activities are happening in OH. No worries when you are out. There is a great group there.
BTW. In and out are concepts, labels who are put on.
Sharing these moments here with you.
Hugs for all.
Another salary cut..?
Just saw a list of 210 students, who have left the fellowship of friends from the Oregon house community since Nov 2006
Several moved back to their home countries I presume around 100?
The fellow ship of friends community had 750 members before Nov 2006.
Another 2-3 years with the speed of this wind?
Thanks and let silence blow your mind
CLOUDBURSTING
Great song by Kate Bush about Wilelm Reich
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRHA9W-zExQ
Another Name,
Your news are sadning but we’ll all walk out of this sooner or later. Thank you for talking.
Elena
Jack, The letter will be off tomorrow.
Thank you for your work and Susan too.
Just started reading this blog. It is incredible what gets explored. I look forward to find out more. I put my name as under the influence because although I am not in any groups specifically I have been reading about and experiencing for myself more just how much we are influenced by everything around us (the media as an obvious example). Anyways, I look forward to learning more.
I left the school not long ago. You might want to applause me but no thanks I left in peace – no sparkles and no blasts. I just wanted to let you know that I agree with much of what has been written here still a great deal of it is either an imaginary fantasy or deliberate exaggeration or both. I can give you a small tip if any of you is willing to listen. The FOF organization is under some pleasure these days, but it is far from being in danger of vanishing. If you really have the goal to demolish it (and I don’t) the last thing I would do is giving the FOF an opportunity to collect tons of slander and very good reasons for claiming libel. And believe me they are collecting it quite systematically. When one writes 10 messages out of 5000 saying that Robert is a rapist (rape is a serious accusation), that might be regarded as a legitimate expression of opinion. But if there are 500-1000 messages of that nature that’s something else. In case of examining balance of rights, I’m not sure if freedom of speech would come first in this particular case. Now practically speaking, even if one would agree with what I say it might be too late for changing anything because its all written there anyway. So if you want this petition to succeed I would suggest to completely disconnect it from this forum. And why so? for the simple reason that if it reaches court, it would be evident that the petition is a by product of the form. If that linkage is accepted in court it would be much harder to reach legal victory. I am not an attorney of law, but if the petition fails in court for non-kosher intentions of the appellants it might lead to counter actions by the FOF.
That’s all I had to say.
I am not planning to stay here in this forum. I recognize some good friends here and I just wanted to say goodbye. I wish each one of you peaceful and happy life.
jack 307
Thank you :.)
Elena 312
Dear Elena, I may not write for a while, but I can keep playing music! it’s always fun for me and after all, the show must go on…
Green hills and enemies
These things they make us sentimental inside
Your words are gelignite
Or just another sentimental aside
We’re catching bullets in our teeth
And though it’s easy when you know how it’s done
They split the secret up six ways before they gave it to us just before dawn
And now we don’t remember
Our blood and guts are out
We spread our bones across the table at night
We cut our fingers off
To give ourselves those little extra insights
We’re catching bullets in our teeth
And though they try hard not to say how it’s done
They always do
They spill the secret out six ways
And beg for our forgiveness
Just before dawn
And now we don’t remember
We’re catching bullets in our teeth
It’s hard to do but they’re so sweet
And if they take a couple out
We try to work things out
We catching bullets with our
Heads and hearts and all the darkest parts of us
It’s strange to find such light
In such endless night
So sweet to lose a friend
You leave the church and taste
The air in your lungs
Old lies and fireflies
Carve angels on your eyes
And all is undone
You whisper prayers into the dark
Up to a god in whom you’ve never believed
You always do
You split the secret up six ways
But it won’t make it any easier to see
And now we don’t remember
We’re catching bullets in our teeth
Its hard to do but they’re so sweet
And if they take a couple out
We try to work things out
We’re catching bullets with our
Heads and hearts and all the darkest parts of us
It’s strange to find such light
In such endless night
We’re catching bullets in our backs
We sent the undertaker back
Into the garden in the drought
To try to work things out
We’re catching bullets with the best resources that we’ve got
We’re happy then again we’re not
We shout – through the endless doubt
Na na na na na na
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AI1NgFYJCN4
Dear mr dear.
Dont worry! be happy!
The Petition is in my name and instigated by me.
These “slanderous” accusations can be backed up by testimony of fact.
I would welcome an opportunity to appear in court charged with slander.
It isn’t about winning in court its about bringing attention to the misuse of trust and more importantly – preventing it continuing.
If a father or mother molests their child is that morally ok ?
Because it is a similar situation when a “spiritual teacher” molests a student.
It creates the same moral confusion.
Funnily enough your warning although you are not reading this because you just popped in to say goodbye …. is also on record.
You appear to be more legally informed than I am though, so my next communication might be from a jail cell !
Many more people have left the Fellatioship than remain, hopefully we can mobilize a small part of them in case of an attack.
…………………………………………………………………………………
Rape
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
“This article is about a form of sexual assault. For other uses, see Rape (disambiguation).
Rape is a form of assault where one individual forces another to have sexual intercourse against that person’s will. It may be defined as forcing a person to submit to any sex act, and is generally considered one of the most serious sex crimes, as well as sometimes very difficult to prosecute. Sexual violence can also be a war crime under international law. Consent may be absent due to duress arising from the use, or threat, of overwhelming force or violence, or because the subject’s capacity to give consent is negated some way: such as developmental disability, intoxication or being underage. In some cases, coercion might also be used to negate consent.
There is no universally accepted distinction between rape and other forms of assault involving one or both participant’s sexual organs. When the term “rape” is used, some criminal codes explicitly consider all kinds of forced sexual activity to be rape, whereas in others only acts involving penis penetration of the vagina. Many restrict rape to instances where a woman is forced by a man. In recent years, some women have been convicted of raping men; this is classed as either rape or sexual assault, or some other legal terminology. In some jurisdictions, rape may also be committed by assailants using objects, rather than their own body parts, against the sexual organs of their target.[1] Some places, such as the state of Michigan, USA, do not use the term “rape” at all in criminal codes. MI uses the term “criminal sexual conduct” for acts which colloquially would be referred to as “rape” or “sexual assault”.[2]
The rape of women by men is the most frequent form of the assault, with an estimated 91% of rape victims being female and 9% being male while 99% of offenders are male.[3]”
Hmmn.
j x
Thank you Mr. Dear for your information. We will definitely keep it in mind.
I doubt the Fellowship of Friends will ever wish enough noise to come against it because even if we were to lose legally we would not lose morally or spiritually. I will not have any difficulty proving that the systematic brainwashing of people goes on with total disregard for people’s dignity or integrity. Rape is not only the violent physical act of forcing another person to a sexual act, it is the submission of an individual into a psychological situation in which he is equally forced to accept having sex with the rapist, in this case Robert Burton. The pressure of a whole community of individuals who have agreed to the idea that Robert Burton is a divine being and it is an honor for any young man to have sex with him is the worst expression of corruption I have ever witnessed and I will continue to fight against it until it is taken care of. It will be taken care of, I assure you and every one of you in the Fellowship of Friends will have to stop practicing and supporting such misery to your own well being.
I was not raped physically by the Fellowship of Friends, I was deceived and used by it to make a pimp of me, promoting what I thought was a conscious System but just providing sex victims and money for Robert Burton. You are a fraud Girard, Robert, Linda and all of you, you are sick to the bones.
Dignity, beauty and humanity, honor and integrity and the fact that no one will ever again have the right to assault one’s physical, emotional or intellectual integrity will win, no matter how much any one of us loses or how long it takes. This will be the legacy of our generation to future generations; One of the greatest legacies of all time. We have not suffered in vain.
March 2008 Oregon House
Russian Student:
I do not want to engage in sexual activites with you anymore.
Teacher: You can pack your suite case and go back to Russia.
Russian student: I can not face, to go back to Russia…….
366 Mr. Dear
“a great deal of it is either an imaginary fantasy or deliberate exaggeration or both.”
And this is based on what, your omnipotence? The above statement alone shows that 1) you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, and/or you’re a liar or a fool… and 2) you have an extraordinary opinion of your opinions.
“last thing I would do is giving the FOF an opportunity to collect tons of slander and very good reasons for claiming libel.”
see #1 & #2 above.
“But if there are 500-1000 messages of that nature that’s something else.”
And what is that something else? If I say the world is round 500 times, what does that change about the basic fact?
As to the rest, you are correct about one thing… you’re not a lawyer, and please see #1 above.
And as many, if not all of us who “have left”, you leave with an overinflated sense of yourself. The faster you get over yourself, the less hard you’re going to be smacked upside the head by reality, eventually. Unless, of course, your satisfied with going through life as an obviously pumped-up jerk.
371 brucelevy
366 Mr. Dear
“a great deal of it is either an imaginary fantasy or deliberate exaggeration or both.”
And either you’ve been here under another name before to spout this exact, oft repeated, verbatim shit, or your “borrowing” some other jerk’s line. Sounds like Fat Boy to me. Neither do I believe you’ve left with this apparent magnanimity. So I guess we’re right back where we started- with you being a liar, for the sake of credibility.
Mr. Dear:
under the influence:
Welcome to the real (inner) world.
You are free to stay as long as you like or leave at your leisure. Donations to the sheik are completely optional. You have already paid enough.
I encourage you to write about your story, when you feel ready. Tell us of your best moments or worst. Or how you are doing in this moment. Share with us your perspective, even if you left long ago or last month. There is an infinite amount of room here for all of us.
Once you externalize your thoughts, and get feedback on them, you will gain more relativity than you ever had in a ’school’ that first taught you the concept of relativity while also teaching you to censor your critical thinking faculties.
Mr. Dear:
Notice you wrote:
“The FOF organization is under some pleasure these days…”
I find this facinating! Don’t you? You meant ‘pressure’, am I correct? But something awake within you wrote ‘pleasure’, because IMO it recognizes that the FOF has been ‘under’ the influence of stupyfing pleasure for some time now and many followers are ‘under’ the illusion that the party will never end. Freud was a bit misguided, but he was no dummy.
Regardless of the illuminating typo, Mr. Dear, I applaud your bravery to leave your mental prison anyway. The actions of brave people often go understated. I left without a fanfare, too. We bravely went were no FOF follower dares to go. We stepped into the shoes of our own inner teacher.
FYI. In describing my experiences with Robert Burton to my therapist, a licensed psychologist holding a PhD, he verified to me that I was raped. Whether or not my experience can meet the legal definition of rape and be upheld in a court of law since it happened 22 years ago doesn’t mean shit to me. I am not a legal threat to him. But I have every right to speak out about how I feel he exploited his position as leader of his church in a predatory manner, much in the same way American Catholic priests set the precedent in their church.
I feel I was raped. Others feel the same.
~317 A non iemus:
Welcome, too! Good englich, crap enjlich, no matter! Nobody’s perfect. Glad you are here! Thank you for your story. How’s life now?
IT seems that Robert Burton sent a message to all us who left the organization (which he calls a conscious school…..!)
THESE are his recent words on the situation:
“The amount of time spent in a conscious school is not an insurance policy—we all
have to battle our own instinctive centers until our last breath. Many people would
still be in the school if Influence C had not given us the sequence. This shows that
one can never really stop making efforts. Even after crystallizing, presence does not
happen by itself.” Robert
My message for him: Robert I didn’t leave the organization because of the sequence, I don’t care about iT, this is nothing compared to all your fake predictions of disgrace for humanity and other absurd stories you invented (included the smoke and lighting ……that day..).
I LEFT BECAUSE I REALIZED AFTER MANY YEARS ….THAT MORE THAN A TEACHER YOU WERE A GREEDY AND CORRUPTED
PERSON and your personal AGENDA was and is much more important than everything else…because you as a teacher use your power to convince young man to have sex with you…..have you ever really thought how they must feel?
I didn t leave because of your teaching, although I really believe is WRONG!
Susan Z
Statement is on it’s way.
My Mr. Dear:
You know, it just dawned on me. I bet there is not one young male church follower now or in the past that ever initiated sex with Robert. Not one. Robert was always first force in the triad.
And Robert always initiated sex through his role of church leader. He overpowers his victims with, “Submit to the will of c-influence.” He then tacitly manipulates you into having sex with him in reciprocation.
He also exclusively preys upon his own flock. (And now, if you say no, you get shipped back to Siberia.)
IMO, this is not healthy expression of human sexuality.
Do you need a better definition of sexual predator?
Look up at the hills, the vineyard is substantially dead; look at the winery, it is a molding ruin; look over at Girard, he is a broken man muttering superficial nonsense; look over at Robert, he is a ridiculously vain and pompous homosexual fixated on money and boys while rambling on in an obviously diminished mental condition. Listen to the “teaching” from the older students, it is propaganda intended primarily as a stop-loss measure for the increasingly skeptical membership. Look around for your lifelong friends, they have left. If supernatural influences were ever involved in this embarrassingly goofy experiment in iniquity then they have obviously withdrawn their blessing. The Fellowship of Friends is clearly in a descending octave and those that remain in it are certain to sustain enduring damage to their spiritual wellbeing as the rotting enterprise continues to collapse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substantial_truth
Very nice post. Thanks.
378 hardtruth
I was referring to this.
To Hardtruth:
Thanks for your clear summary of the facts.
In Celebration of the Sunset and with love for us all.
Music,
Once again a music
Of untouched strings
Like velvet blue afternoons
Of warmth sent out to touch you.
Music,
A longing louder than pain,
A solo of Bach’s G. String
An Air of light
Of Transparency
Of Cello
A music,
To rest in silence’s love
An absence so thick
So proud in its bitter encounter,
So perplex and accepting of destiny
All at the same time and without fear,
Always falling
landing where I already am
even without you.
Laura and all,
Finally a youtube from me to you!
I don’t know how to send the address but please look for Yo-Yo ma’s libertango, The tango lesson! on youtube.
It must be America what is bringing this life back life!
this life back to life!
Thanks everyone for your heartfelt posts/ Haven’t been able to read much of this, but the last few have really hit a note with me.
Elena, I like your poem.
===========
Copying the text from the link in Veronicapoes’s recent post >>>
SUBSTANTIAL TRUTH
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Substantial truth is a legal doctrine affecting libel and slander laws in common law jurisdictions such as the US or the UK.
Under the United States law, a statement cannot be held to be slanderous or libellous if it is true; the substantial truth doctrine extends this protection by holding that a statement with “slight inaccuracies of expression” do not make the alleged libel false.
This doctrine is applied in matters in which truth is used as an absolute defense to a defamation claim brought against a public figure, but only false statements made with “actual malice” are subject to sanctions. A defendant using truth as a defense in a defamation case is not required to justify every word of the alleged defamatory statements. It is sufficient to prove that “the substance, the gist, the sting, of the matter is true.”
“The faster you get over yourself,” Bruce said, “the less hard you’re going to be smacked upside the head by reality, eventually.”
I liked this comment.
The “eventually” part is scary for Robert Burton.
Although I do wonder sometimes if there is a Self for him to get over. But I believe there is. And I think that’s part of the problem. We often believed that “Robert” would never get smacked upside the head by reality.
He will. We all will.
Jack writes, “Many more people have left the Fellatioship than remain, hopefully we can mobilize a small part of them in case of an attack.”
THIS IS AN AWESOME COMMENT.
(And when I copied this, I didn’t even notice the Fellatioship part.)
But here’s the gist: Just try. Just TRY to attack one of us.
Good luck with that.
378 ~ Hardtruth ~
“If supernatural influences were ever involved in this embarrassingly goofy experiment in iniquity then they have obviously withdrawn their blessing.”
____________________________
Unless it’s the supernatural influences who are in charge of the other side of blessings: with this in mind they’re still in charge and doing very well.
Such is the way of the world
You can never know
Just where to put all your faith
And how will it grow
Gonna rise up
Burning back holes in dark memories
Gonna rise up
Turning mistakes into gold
Such is the passage of time
Too fast to fold
And suddenly swallowed by signs
Lo and behold
Gonna rise up
Find my direction magnetically
Gonna rise up
Throw down my ace in the hole
“You can fool some people sometimes
But you can’t fool all the people all the time”
Love, Bob
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GsVkV3AZqqI
(thanks, ton)
Into the Wild
For what it’s worth, here’s an updated membership count. As before, these numbers are not likely to be perfectly accurate because the database isn’t either.
March 9, 2008: 1,767
In comparison:
November 24, 2007: 1,848
August 20, 2007: 1,949
There were some questions about a month ago as to what it is that prevents myself and others in a similar situation from leaving right this minute. I’ve been thinking about how to answer this in an honest way. The best thing that came to mind was “the apple falls when it falls” but that didn’t quite seem worth posting. I’ve been gathering some further notes but they aren’t ready yet. You see, I’m that slow…
Hi survivors of the Fellowship of Friends and of the blog!
I just found out the following information:
There are now monthly world-wide protests around Scientology, held at the orgs around the world. The first one last month was held on Feb. 10 in honor of Lisa McPherson, the Scientologist who was killed by poor medical care in Florida 10 years ago. Over 9000 people came. Worldwide.
This month it is being held next Saturday March 15th and the focus is on the tax-exempt status. A problem has arisen with SCN’ers from other countries (where SCN is being kicked out) coming to the States, having their pass-ports confiscated and the adults and the children are working in bad conditions and have no means to protest or negotiate because they do not speak English well. AND do not have their passports. I know “FofF” had this problem in the past. And like your group, SCN is using its “charitable religious status” to get “religious visas.”
One of the many problems with SCN having a “charitable” status.
The Anonymous group, which are the organizers, are now expecting over 20,000 people worldwide. SF’s is being held from 11 until 5 pm at the SF org at Montgomery and Washington.
_______________
I’m interested in seeing what and how they do these things, maybe we can also think about one like that? Some people there may be of help? We may be tiny in comparison but we are no less significant.
Another youtube!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch
v=Mg24YsN0iuU&feature=related
if that doesn’t work it is:
Yundi Li plays Chopin Piano Concerto No.1 2nd mov.
I guess these blog equally works for those of us who want the company! No matter the things that go on in here, it does actually support periods of grieving. Thank you all for been there, specially at the beginning.
for having been there, specially at the beginning.
Famous Last Words:
“More sequins!” – Princess Twinkle Toes
Maybe we’ve misjudged the weird man.
397 Mick Danger
Famous Last Words:
“More sequins!” – Princess Twinkle Toes
Oh, thanks. I thought they were “Less light”.
“don’t let them take the fight outta you”
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=golCPnUiKv4&feature=related
“If songs were lines in a conversation, the situation would be fine”
Nick Drake
I have heard that some people are waiting to see what happens with the petition, others are afraid of going public, some actually think it is fine for the Fellowship of Friends to continue and let those who suffer in it solve their problem, we all had to.
Still, it seems some just don’t know what they could say and I would like to explore this.
It is clear that many of us never had anything to do with the boys or the transactions of getting them in place at the Galleria or giving out exercises for people to pay even more than they were already paying but we have all gone through the different stages of being brainwashed, submitted and silenced and we have all given our selves up for the benefit of the Fellowship of Friends who has taken advantage of all of us.
The Fellowship of Friends used
Our talent
Our good will
Our money
Used and abused
Our love
Used and raped us
Physically,
Emotionally
Intellectually
Physically it used us every time we volunteered for an octave. It uniformed us with particular clothes giving us the illusion that we were special: “Beautifully dressed” Valuable. But it wanted us only to serve as decoration and use our energy on how we looked.
Emotionally, every time we assisted any event. Our sole presence legitimated the event.
Our trust and naivete allowed it to continue unchecked for over thirty-five years.
Intellectually, it conditioned the thoughts we were allowed to think.
The sequence is the culminating achievement of intellectual brainwashing but the brainwashing has been going on since the beginning. It culminated in closing down all the official channels of communication between students and concentrating the power of speech solely on Robert and Girard in the past four years.
They must have much relaxed in this area lately giving more participation but it is a poisoned candy.
It is not worth underestimating the damages that we all suffered in the Fellowship of Friends even if we were not sexually assaulted by Robert. Many might think that it is more of a crime to rape a young man physically than to rape the good will of fifteen thousand people but it is actually as bad or worse to rape the good will as it is to rape the body.
In fact, the men were physically assaulted only because the whole community’s good will had already been raped and we had surrendered.
We surrendered our right to participate and decide what it was that we were willing to pay for.
We have all witnessed that men were submitted to Robert Burton’s will.
We have all witnessed that women were submitted to Robert Burton’s will.
We have all witnessed that Robert Burton’s will acted against our
Trust
Dignity and
Integrity.
Not so long ago, slavery was not a crime. Today it may not be a punishable crime to act against people’s trust, integrity and dignity but as long as we stand against it, we will make of it a crime so that no future generation has to bear with what we suffered without those responsible being held into account.
The dilemma of mankind today is not only the economic social struggle but the human struggle. The struggle for dignity. Once we understand that each of our institutions must conform to a dignified status for every individual involved, the economic social struggle will align itself with the human condition. All of humanity is moving from the instinctive to the emotional. Presence is the statement of one’s dignity. “I am” is its foundation. Every individual IS and there is no one in any hierarchy that can act against one’s integrity. In years to come, it will be punishable to even insult another human being. The power of words will have reached it’s true being and we will not even hurt each other with words, let alone, actions.
It may look dark when we see things through today’s light but we are positively changing.
There are many of you out there that can testify that the Fellowship of Friends uses people’s ignorance in centers around the world to make money for Robert without giving them anything substantial in return but just using their own good will.
The lights went out and I thought I’d lost the previous post and wrote this one. They are different and the same.
You wonder why some people still haven’t left the Fellowship and it is as valid a question as why no one has yet sent his statement of facts to Susan Z. How long does it take for an understanding to become organic within an individual or a community?
How many have not witnessed that the Fellowship of Friends took advantage of our good will to use us physically, emotionally and intellectually.
Physically, every time we volunteered for an octave or worked for a miserable salary while Robert spent millions on his first class corruption.
Emotionally, every time we went to an event that was legitimized by our sole presence. Every time we worked in any octave and put our soul in support for the Arc.
Intellectually, the Fellowship of Friends conditioned what we were allowed to think and not think about.
We were not to think about:
Humanity, (The six billion dead people on the planet, influence A)
Our families (feminine dominance, influence A, biological connections without meaning)
Other student’s suffering (feminine dominance)
Our concepts of morality or decency (feminine dominance)
Our own suffering (more effort, too weak to work on yourself)
Our well-being (Influence A, the king of clubs)
We were to think about:
Putting our feet on the ground
Not saying “You Know”
Not saying “I”
Not talking about our selves (“unnecessary talk”)
Transforming suffering: pretending we weren’t suffering.
Making money for the Arc: Robert Burton’s bedroom and lifestyle
The Auctions
The Theatron All legitimized the Fellowship of Fiends
The Arts
We were specially to think about how we dressed. As long as you look good you must be good and I don’t care anyway, you are just a decoration to legitimize my reign. “Love” Robert.
“Think” Girard
“Act” Linda
“Be” the rest.
Come my sweets, let’s go modelling to the property where we can have the illusion of being better than other human beings who have not even acquired the understanding of what it is like to dress well. Blue-collar average men without taste. We are the chosen ones. Thank you my darlings for making it so easy for me to suck as much semen as I wish. Don’t mind my drinking? Love Robert, Think Girard, Act Linda, Be the rest.
We are the be, be’s and the act, act and the thinks of Robert Burton’s divinity. Blessed by his divine being throughout eternity! Walking like plastered dolls in wax straightjackets we go to the meeting tip toeing so that our lower self will not disturb his divinity.
Please do not judge him dear, but he judged each one of us from top to bottom and inside out and not one stood up to him and stopped him. Not one has yet said what needs to be said. Such an opportunity to be so close, dear!
No one says anything and the assault on dignity continues as if it were not a crime, so used to being abused that we no longer know what is a crime and what isn’t. So used to not being, that we cannot state who we are.
Everyone in the Fellowship of Friends has witnessed that students around the world who have never even come to the States are made to pay considerable amounts of money to support Robert’s lifestyle in exchange for supplying themselves with their own good will. The Fellowship Girard cannot be a third force as you say. It turns against people’s will and corrupts it. Sooner or later, the facts behind the illusion of School fall into place and the illusion crumbles to pieces. You are a factory of broken beings. You damage people.
All of you know that the Fellowship of Friends is a money making institution with the practice if not the aim of providing Robert Burton with easily available young men. Everyone of us has winessed it even if we have never seen the sex actually happening.
I sincerely wonder what is stopping you from stopping it? Does it feel good to you? Do you rest comfortably in your silence? How can you live with yourself with something like that inside of you? Does it not make you want to throw it out of our existence? It is strange to watch people living with poison for so long thinking they are not dying from it.
A kinda nice thing happened today.
A co-worker came up to me and thanked me.
He is a kind of ‘baby Huey’ type. Big, slow, lumbering – kind of dorky, chatty type.
I was perplexed because I can’t remember doing him any favors recently so I said: “what for?”
He replied: “Thanks for talking to me and not at me. No one else around here talks to me that way.”
Funny how I think it is the big stuff that is important.
“You can hold back from the suffering of the world- you have free permission to do so and it is in accordance with your nature. But perhaps this very holding back is the one suffering you could have avoided.”
Franz Kafka
Are you waiting for me?
At the end of the airport
I’m off buying our tickets
Auteur in hibernation
But I’m feeling impatient
We were late for departure
And the smell of pajamas
Is what makes me feel frivol
There are minutes for sleeping
But we didn’t have minutes to spare
So you’re feeling sleepy
Sympathize with the retard
Being held by his mother
She’s got spit in her napkin
And she’s pushing him that way
Like the stench through the men’s room
And it’s making you nauseous
Where the hell have I got to?
There’s a boy who’s a Krishna
And he thinks you look pretty
Well, he’s eyeing your stockings
He’s got books to help you with your life
But there’s no need to worry
This is just a vacation
It’s not permanent leaving
Every kid gets excited
When his parents are yelling
They ordered a Lincoln
And they received a compact
And there’s fat nuns and tenors
Who are blocking departure
Till I’m birthed from their vulvas
And I kiss you and hug you
Do you remember our forfeits?
And you shout at the platform
Here we come mister airplane
Please, Please, Please, Please
Try, Try, Try
To enjoy your roots
Have some fun, fun
Kids on holiday
Animal Collective & Burning Man
http://www.vimeo.com/300092
“Funny how I think it is the big stuff that is important.”
___________________________________________
Yes: I would tell people when they asked me through the 15 past years why I stayed in The Fellowship of Friends, that it was because of Second Line, etc., etc.
I now know that this was a layer of insanity I had then and up until very recently, yet to visit: had I known it then, that the truth of the matter was something that would have prompted me to say ~
‘I am staying in the Fellowship of Friends so that I can have the most numbers of like ‘minded’ people to show off myself to and impress by my doubting they could do without me as humanly possible on the planet Earth.’
_________________________
It really had very little to do with others, including C-Influence: perhaps Graduation means failing in a Holy way.
I’ve been reading a lot “experience reports” lately and found them very interesting. Especially those that went looking for nothing and found everything.
The All and Everything School called the fellowship of friends directed by Burton and Haven gave experience to 10,000 people.
It would be interesting to read their “experience reports” especially those who went looking for everything and found nothing.
Therefore do it where you are, right here, right now.
There’s no need to seek out some other place or some other condition or situation and then do it there.
Do it right here and now.
Wherever you are is the place for surrender.
Whatever the situation is that you’re in, you can say “yes” to what is, and that is then the basis for all further action.
– Eckhardt Tolle
yesri baba:
Thank you for sharing that little jewel from your life. See how you are? I don’t have to tell you this, but I will anyway…that is your work, your emotional intelligence, reflected back at you…and a wonderful experience to remember yourself with in moments of self doubt.
To me, that’s the Sufi way, treating everyone the same, as one would want to be treated, from the heart, whether they are “sleeping machines” or “life people” or whomever. (…that is, except for sociopaths with little or no conscience-they need to be confronted and/or humanely contained to protect the community from harm.)
You also bring up a very big point. I am certain there are those still mired in the FOF web of lies who think that if they walked away from the circus, somehow it would fundamentally change their inner character for the worse…or that they would somehow lose their “inside connection” with their spirituality which they externalize as “c-influence” due to lack of self-esteem.
My experience informs me that only elements of personality change as a result of leaving the cult and not one’s essence or one’s true character. What one loses by leaving, as I am sure you have already discovered, dear yesri, is one’s false sense of entitlement, don’t you agree?
FOF followers may think highly of themselves on the one hand being the lucky ‘chosen ones’ (which they have to pay for), however there is no factual basis or soild foundation to support that feeling and therefore they need to unconsciously compensate by projecting their inadequacies onto ‘life people” or “the others”, the non-members. Robert exploits this unconscious tendency to his advantage, using it to tighten the grip of his false teaching like Svengali.
I am still working on ridding myself of the unhealthy elements of narcissism like entitlement that were welded to my being from the “high intensity-high control” atmosphere of the FOF cult. For example, for me that meant letting go of the idea that having a gold alchemy had anything to do with one’s level of being. IMO, alchemy has to do more with one’s sensitivity to one’s surroundings and environment than say, one’s ability to love. Science is now telling us that it is good for our immune systems to get our hands dirty sometimes otherwise we become weaker and more vulnerable to infections. And who wants to become a FOF gold alchemy bitch?
406 Rear View Mirror
In my experience, this simple and essential shift in being can bring with it a requirement for much rest, particularly during the process of ‘coming down’ from the FOF head game.
An FYI for all:
Eckhardt Tolle’s new book is being showcased in Oprah Winfrey’s book club (!) and on Monday evenings there is a live webcast with him, Oprah and the web audience. The first webcast was March 3rd and about 750,000 people signed on – the largest live web event ever, I understand. These continue each Monday through May 5th at 9pm Eastern, 8pm Central, 6pm Pacific time. Go to http://www.oprah.com and sign onto to her book club, then register for the webcast.
Amazing, isn’t it?
Across the River:
Thanks for mentioning Oprah’s live webcasts. It is amazing.
“FOF head game” is an apt description. Anything, ANYTHING, that appeals to large numbers of people and that’s not sanctioned by the FOF, is automatically categorized as sleep, or mechanicality, or imagination, or a waste of one’s time, or crowd emotion, and so on.
But this sense that we are separate from others is exactly what takes us away from “self remembering” (if that’s what we want to call it), or anything of the spirit. Nothing feeds our egos any better than the notion that we are somehow blessed above and beyond the masses, that “they” are lost, and we are found. That we are awake, and that they sleep.
Were the Fellowship suddenly to see itself as a part of the world — and that it had something of value to offer the world, and the world had something of value to offer it — it would cease to be the Fellowship as we know it. Anyone who remained there with the intent to manipulate or exploit would have to leave. Anyone.
Or if the Fellowship were to never change (the more likely scenario, to put it mildly), anyone who connected with spirit in this way would sooner or later have to leave. And more likely sooner.
But if sleep is the word that we want to use, there is no deeper sleep than to believe we are separate. No deeper illusion.
To be “in spirit,” — to be inspired — we see our connection to the world around us, and to the people around us.
Elena:
Nice post.
“It is strange to watch people living with poison for so long thinking they are not dying from it.”
…Makes me think of people who use tobacco. Do you know of any other product on the market, which when used as directed, will kill you? It is indeed strange to watch people make a career of smoking and compromise their health, indeed the Native American’s revenge.
One could make a plausible argument that for some, if not most long-term followers, the Fellowship is an addiction, reflective of the leader’s sex addiction.
So even though a follower doesn’t engage in sexual relations with the teacher, they knowingly or unknowingly collude with the addiction by remaining a “lucky” or “chosen” follower, continuing to pay money, support Robert’s semen habit, and act against their own self interest. Fellowship followers are not immune and must make compromises like any other person with an addictive personality run amok. Their whole world starts to revolve around the addiction. Eventually such a person is forced to compromise their health, dignity, morals, finances, livelihood, and friendships in service of the addiction.
The end game of hard core addiction is usually some kind of physical, emotional, legal, or spiritual crisis that wakes the person up or they simply die from it. When such a person finally hits rock bottom, the pain and suffering motivates them to make a change…AKA, the hard way. That’s why they call it “rock” bottom; rocks are hard; it has to hurt.
Rock bottom for me was realizing that Robert wanted me as his sex slave, regardless of what it did to my American Spirit. To him, I was just another hit, and for me, that was kind of a drag.
(There will be withdrawal symptoms when you, leave Ollie, but they won’t last forever.)
RVMirror: But if sleep is the word that we want to use, there is no deeper sleep than to believe we are separate. No deeper illusion.”
No deeper delusion, no deeper loneliness or pain.
“To be “in spirit,” — to be inspired — we see our connection to the world around us, and to the people around us.”
What joyful connections you are making! The Fellowship of Friends will sink in by its own weight! I
Whalerider: “There will be withdrawal symptoms when you leave Ollie, but they won’t last forever”
They not only not last forever, they recompose. One of the wonderful things that have happened since I left is developing a relationship with the Fellowship of Friends in which I exist. It is there and I belong to it, one way or another, but I am here seeing it for what it is, at least to me. I have loved it, suffered it, hated it and loved it again in a very different way, every time.
We are bound to each other’s dream.
It is wonderful to see Robert as the smart ass that he is and not be under his will.
Now that the emotional center is much recovered, I feel I need to work on movement.
No sports, no movement is another tool of indoctrination in the Fellowship of Friends. Movement gives us strengths and connections to the Now that neither the emotional or intellectual centre can give. Disencouraging us from physical exercise and sports was another of Robert’s tools to increase our vulnerability. A few people did not pay attention to that and moved any way but the majority don’t and get weaker each day.
#407 Whalerider
Since you asked my brother…
I think there is a space in the world to which all are entitled- everyone. If we speak to that space as often as we are able it allows ourselves and others to regain the dignity to accept it.
As far as the ‘false entitlement’ of the FOF I will only say that it is impossible to over estimate the amount of ’spiritual materialism’ and just plain bullshit that is swallowed. If anyone is more guilty of this than I was I pity the fool.
I had a dream last night. I was in a kitchen. Around me were some people. One of them was Girard (It didn’t look like G, he was fairly young and had all his wits about him. I never new G very well). There was a discussion about something going on with G doing most of the talking. I began to speak but kind of hesitated and began to reflect on what I was going to say and G did a kind of stuttering mock of me and I grabbed him by an upper arm and the throat and threw him to the floor letting him know that it was within my power to throttle him and then let him go.
He walked away and began talking with another group and I followed saying I wasn’t done talking yet. He didn’t want to talk anymore. I insisted and he turned to me and I looked him straight in the eye and described exactly how it felt being exhiled. I began sobbing telling how all my friends had been taken away. The crying and sobbing became deeper – into those breathless convusions I am certain you know. He and every person around me was drawn down into the emotion.
I woke up crying like a baby. I lay there looking at it reflecting a little. Then I got up, took a piss and went back to sleep.
Twenty-seven years and the wound is still here. But, to me, it is beside the point. The point is that all that has nothing to do with who I am – it has only served to smooth my edges.
I feel I am on a road that has no beginning and no end. Due to it’s strange geometry all who are standing on that road at any point are standing in the same place.
For Ollie and all FOF fence sitters, you can escape!
Step out of that FOF circle and into a brave new world.
Quite a few people left recently, brave souls longing
to explore their own destiny, finally fed up with the
sheepish following of a fanatic fantasy teaching.
While visiting a moutain cult called the Yezidis Gurdjieff saw a young man crying. Apparently he was unable to escape from a circle that had been drawn on the ground around him. Gurdjieff notes in his records that it took him and another strong man to wrestle a Yezidi woman out of a circle drawn around her.
Y Baba, re: spiritual materialism — in an earlier post you quite rightly point out the error of thinking in terms of “A conscious being” — the twisted view attempts to quantify the quality of conscious being — simply put, being conscious. “Predicting” the number of “conscious beings” that the “school” would produce, even going so far as to designate those who would be “conscious” added to the absurd notion of quantifying a quality. What absolutely preposterous bullshit!!! This form of spiritual materialism was a control mechanism, part of the shell-game, and a foundation for the con which worked as well as it did because of the materialistic life and times of the culture — it’s the nature of the soup we’re in.
More generally and on another subject: ‘The bits and pieces I’ve put together… we’ve all got our problems. But there’s something bigger that we can all appreciate… sounds like you might not mind calling it God. When you forgive, you love. And when you love, God’s light shines on you.’
R Franz (paraphrased)
ton not only did I read the book last month, I saw the movie last week and I keep hearing Hal Holbrook uttering those lines. Funny you’ve posted this when you have.
Whalerider, your description of addiction as what is happening in the Fellowship sounds so right. The behavior of so many people adapts perfectly to that pattern.
Ton, that makes sense too. On a different angle, it is as if each one of us and many in our time in greater and lesser degrees had glimpses of other dimensions that are eager to express themselves in this one, that we are so used to. It would have been wonderful if we had been able to share our high state experiences in the Fellowship but no one was allowed to experience these states except Robert and no one could speak about them without being judged as if one were crazy. The few I experienced are so pretty! Difficult to bear for the instinctive center but glorious to the soul! Has anyone had any insights into why it is so difficult for the body to bear with higher states? At the beginning they’d put me to bed for days, three days the first time, then less, then I could actually function apparently normal but it was difficult. I once heard Ezequiel would go into states like that and stay in them for years. It was a relief to know that it was normal to be shocked by them. I felt very lucky that I was neither Ezequiel nor stayed in them for more than three days though. Looking back it definitely feels as though I were functioning with jetliner gas and was a cheap scooter! Long periods of effort were necessary to get there but when they exploded the effort seemed meager to the intensity of the state.
I think it is important for the people of our time to realize that these states are fairly accesible and that we are not crazy if we talk about them. We are dying in the disacknowledgement of the spiritual world. The commitment to certain discipline may be necessary but people experience high states even without specific disciplines. The difficulty with substances of any kind in the way they are being used, and I did so enough, is that it gets the high state at the cost of the person’s own energy and replenishing it again is not easy. They depress the I. It is a very high cost for it takes years to recover.
The craving “to be” the conscious being with a permanent high state is as materialistic as wanting to be famous. Specially difficult when they oppose such state to the daily chores as if these had come out of hell and anyone having to do the “dirty” jobs were a lower being.
Yesri, I have disturbing dreams like yours fairly often. In a recent one even with Girard and also woke up about to cry.
But I don’t feel nearly as disturbed any more when I am awake. The nightmare is becoming a thing of the past!
Yesri baba:
Wow, first a jewel, then a set of diamond cufflinks! Thanks, bro, tears welled up in my eyes when I read your last post. I felt a connection with you several times today. I still have dreams about the FOF 22 years later.
Shunning is such a cruel, abusive practice and damaging to the psyche. You know, if you shun your attention from a newborn baby, even though you feed it, the baby will die. I believe the diagnosis is called, “failure to thrive”.
I love the symbolic nature of your dream taking place in the kitchen, my favorite room, and the focal point of most activity in my house.
I was reading a “Magic School Bus” storybook to my son the other day, you know, the one in which the nutty science teacher named Miss Fritz shrinks the school bus down (with the students in it) to a smaller scale to check out the cellular world or time travels to a prehistoric age…and in this one story they were studying the chemical reactions that occur in the kitchen as a result of cooking…where you mix some stuff together, add a little of this and a little of that, give it a stir, pour it into the pan, pop it in the oven, turn up the heat, give it a little time, and voila…TRANSFORMATION.
May your day be as full of as many delicious moments as you gave me today.
Bon appétit, my friend!
Veronicapoe, I read the book shortly after it was published in ‘96 and it haunted me for a long time. As the story of a young man’s spiritual odyssey, I found many parallels and similarities with my own biography. I’ve recently seen the film and it moved me as much as did reading the book. I’m sure it’s not for everyone, but it’s the best film I’ve seen in some time. (It’s clear that director Sean Penn, has adopted the style of Terrence Malick with great success — Malick’s work is remarkable — check out THE NEW WORLD and THE THIN RED LINE — if you haven’t already).
All the best to you all.
veronicapoe:
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt6o8NlrbHg
Good timing for this blog entry (I enjoyed the comments, too)
http://www.realitysandwich.com/original_religion
PS.
I love you people
PPS.
I found The New World stunningly beautiful… hopefully tonight I am going to watch Into the Wild!
and the beat goes on…
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mcfcGsX-3bw&feature=related
Favorite Malick film: “Days of Heaven.” Saw it in the theater when it came out. 70mm print. Absolutely the most gorgeous film I’ve ever experienced. Maybe my favorite Richard Gere performance. Also, it was Sam Shepard’s first film role. Criterion DVD has just released a re-mastered version that’s getting raves.
I watched Alan Watts’ “Conversations with Myself” on YouTube yesterday. It was done in 1971 and still resonates today. After several years in the Felllowship of Friends (around ‘86), I threw out all my Watts books because I believed they were counter-productive to my evolution. This memory interests me because it triggers a string of associated memories.
The first philosophical book I ever read was “The Book,” by Watts. It was given to me by my high school band director the summer after graduation. He was also the first person I ever heard utter the name Peter Ouspensky, although he told me he wasn’t quite sure what to make of him. I used to mark that as a very significant event in the formation of my mag-neat-o centre. Two months after this, I saw the Grateful Dead for the first time and had all the molecules in my brain rearranged. What happened, why did it happen, how did it happen, can I make it happen all the time? And the race is on!
One August afternoon, I’m on the deck of the Lincoln Lodge having lunch with Robert and he tells this story:
In his early days in San Francisco, he went to hear Alan Watts speak. Bob wasn’t clear as to whether he had met Alex Horn by this time or not. So, Bobby, finds himself seated to Watts’ left and remembers only that Watts constantly moved his head to the right, addressing only the right side of the room and never making eye contact with him. Bob told us that from this he understood that Watts’ teaching came entirely from his personality and that Bob, being unacknowledged and to his left, was in essence. And we nodded our heads and were satisfied.
You know, as a kid, I experienced this same phenomenon. Miss Nancy on Romper Room never called my name when looking through the magic looking glass. Everyday I’d sit there at the end of the show waiting for her to say, “…and I see Kid,” but no, never did I hear it. I, however, did not incorporate it into my conscious teaching.
Or did I?
Kid: Yep. Many of “the teacher’s” so-called observations came from this same impulse. If someone did anything that annoyed him in any way, or that insulted his ego, he would find some sort of “photograph” to explain their so-called mechanical behavior. Someone is smoking at the Lodge. It annoyed him. We have a no-smoking exercise.
I sense that he had an experience where a few students completely ignored him when he walked into a room. A short time later, his comments emphasized the importance that people should look at him. (They were probably having fun, enjoying some good laughs over a glass of wine, and really didn’t care if a Man No. 7 or Man No. 8 walked into the room. What mattered was that they enjoyed each other’s company.)
Not too long ago, he asked people to make eye contact with the person giving “angles” at meetings. I strongly suspect it was a reaction to many people beginning to look away from him when HE gave angles. The words were getting more absurd, although I have to keep reminding myself that his words were absurd from the very beginning, interspersed with occasional bits of common wisdom and common sense. (“Out time is limited.” etc.)
The no-laughter exercise: It obviously sprung from his own annoyance with the laughter of his followers. Of course, there’s more to it than that. Laughter itself is healing, and is useful for keeping our feet firmly planted on the floor, rather than blindly believing nonsense.
Anyway, the list goes on and on. A lot of what he does is an attempt to create an environment where people are less likely to offend him. A lot of what he does is a reaction to anything that challenges him.
Anyway… just stating the obvious.
Was taking a walk yesterday and had a brief notion that the very trees and buildings that surrounded me were somehow… “impossible.”
Something in me sensed it was actually “impossible” that they should be there. But somehow, there they were. Springing up from the ground.
I feel much the same way about the FOF. So much is impossible with all of this. It’s impossible that people within the fellowship will begin reaching out to the world, to former members, and to start seeing the value in an Alan Watts book, as Kid does, and as I do. It’s impossible that any sort of reconciliation will occur — where in some unknown place we all join together and see where we were wrong, and see where we were right, and acknowledge our friendships, and dispose of our pretense, and see the crime, and begin to heal.
Reconciliation.
An end to the lies.
A Honesty with each other.
It all seems impossible. For these things to happen, it would actually be a miracle.
_____________________
Miracles
Why, who makes much of a miracle?
As to me, I know of nothing else but miracles,
Whether I walk the streets of Manhattan,
Or dart my sight over the roofs of houses toward the sky,
Or wade with naked feet along the beach just in the edge of the water,
Or stand under trees in the woods,
Or talk by day with anyone I love, or sleep in the bed at night with anyone I love,
Or sit at table at dinner with the rest,
Or look at strangers opposite me riding in the car,
Or watch honey bees busy around the hive of a summer forenoon,
Or animals feeding in the fields,
Or birds, or the wonderfulness of insects in the air,
Or the wonderfulness of the sundown, or of stars shining so quiet and bright,
Or the exquisite delicate thin curve of the new moon in spring;
These with the rest, one and all, are to me miracles,
The whole referring, yet each distinct and in its place.
To me every hour of the light and dark is a miracle,
Every cubic inch of space is a miracle,
Every square yard of the surface of the earth is spread with the same,
Every foot of the interior swarms with the same.
To me the sea is a continual miracle,
The fishes that swim–the rocks–the motion of the waves–the ships with the men in them,
What stranger miracles are there?
-Walt Whitman
#423 Kid
A more plausible explanation is that Mr. Watts’ creepy fucker radar was functioning impeccably.
Also there is an error in Boobie’s reasoning – as usual. Since Boobie was seated to Mr. Watt’s left he was actually to the right from Boobie’s own perspective. This means he was interpreting the whole event from his personality including being in ‘essence’. Boobie was actually in ‘nonsence’. He went on to build a whole teaching around this state.
Kid Shelleen:
Romper room, the magic looking glass, a young child needing validation…
Thanks Kid, may you shine like a thousand watts! Your post about sums it up. Let’s go ahead and make it part of our consciousness raising endeavor here, shall we?
When Robert recounts his story of sitting next to Alan Watts, not getting acknowledgement and validation for being in his “essence personality”, in order to understand what he is saying, we listeners (undoubtedly a little tipsy from the wine by now) unconsciously access similar memories of feeling unacknowledged, invalidated and ultimately, unloved by our parents and/or role models. For a moment, we empathize with how little Bobby felt, probably about being unloved by his father.
The “teacher” follows up the story with some eye contact, a smile, a hug, and a kiss. The experience makes an impression and temporarily fulfills an unmet need. Then you pay. There is no unconditional love there. Plus, the intellectual component of his “teaching” usually wilts or evaporates by the time you get home, if not sooner. There is no high standard of scholarship either, in fact quite the opposite. So what are you really paying for?…to be on an emotional treadmill. You never get anywhere and the scenery never changes. Years slip by. He stays on top of the food chain and you stay on the bottom. Teaching payments keep the machine running.
And for many, to continue receiving Robert’s validation, it involves becoming entangled as a pawn in his unhealthy sex life. Or you get exiled back to Siberia.
Hey, let’s band together for warmth!
lauralupa: Thanks for the “happy” link. Although no two people can share the same space at the same time, they can share the same rhythm, the same vibe. Sharing makes everyone happy. All we really need to know about leading a successful life we already learned in Kindergarten. That’s why I love volunteering in my daughter’s class.
Yesri #426,
Funny, At the time of this story’s telling I had the fleeting thought: “Wait, do you mean your left or stage left?” But, being the good student, I immediately kill this thought in its cradle. And, besides, would I have ever asked that out loud?
Hi everybody. A friend of mine recently noted that Robert is selling canaries to his followers. Thought that was pretty accurate.
I recently had a conversation with a current devotee, a thoroughly indoctrinated and deluded fellow who is even buying the dinosaur poop. I had that familiar feeling of exasperation that bordered on disgust and disbelief. His self satisfied smugness and sense of superiority just made him appear ridiculous.
He is no different than a member of some strange fundamentalist religion and I don’t concern myself with tryng to show those people the error of their ways. So my question is why so many of us feel the desire to expose Robert and the Fellowship for the farce that they are. I have been trying to reach a place where my rejection of the Fellowship does not include a need to convince others or have them acknowledge the sickness in the group. I think this is what Eckhardt Tolle would describe as looking at something without the Ego.
Just to add however, my encounter with that student left me feeling like I had been exposed to something very sick. I almost felt like shuddering. It was creepy and it took several hours for that feeling to subside.
Sorry for this rambling post – I just felt the need to share this incompletely digested experience and these fragmented thoughts.
Thursday, March 13, 2008
When I yawn, I cover my mouth, in order to be different from the animals.
Love, Robert
NO COMMENT!
427: Whalerider:
“When Robert recounts his story of sitting next to Alan Watts, not getting acknowledgement and validation for being in his “essence personality”, in order to understand what he is saying, we listeners (undoubtedly a little tipsy from the wine by now) unconsciously access similar memories of feeling unacknowledged, invalidated and ultimately, unloved by our parents and/or role models. For a moment, we empathize with how little Bobby felt, probably about being unloved by his father.
The “teacher” follows up the story with some eye contact, a smile, a hug, and a kiss. The experience makes an impression and temporarily fulfills an unmet need. Then you pay.”
Right! Then the other tool is used against you if you express your suffering to the inner circle representatives:
“What is it in you that needs acknowledgement? What you give you must give for free without expectations. If you valued yourself you would not need validation from others.” On and on this kind of reasoning kills essence and imposes a character shield that becomes increasingly cold towards one’s self and the world around one. A feeling of impotency prevails and no one ACTS out of line. Mass behaviour becomes rampant.
Behind these is being. In the dimension of false personalities the rational mind is used against those involved to justify never valuing, acknowledging or respecting each other and who ever has the power of position will in the end survive or impose himself on the other.
It is a lost battle for the person needing to be valued by the authority figure. The authority figure, as the representative of the community has in its hands the key to participation and he/she will use his power to deny the person needing the acknowledgement, precisely participation.
Our inmature love relationships function in a very similar way. There is a constant passage of unnecessary suffering in this processes. It is a descending octave.
Behind these is being. What was useful to understand at some point was that behind our desire to be acknowledged by an authority, a parent, a lover, is a genuine impulse to participate in the life of the community with everything that it involves: the people, the work, the joys and toils. Behind one’s desire in false personality is one’s being in essence. Only a sick world, a sick community would stop any human being from a rightful participation. A healthy community wishes everyone’s participation in its fullest sense. An instinctive community just wishes to exploit as many as possible and reserve the right to make decisions to a few.
Trapped in false personality one denigrates one’s self or inner considers for not being acknowledged or loved by those one is identified with be it the authority figure, the attractive people over there or the one that one has fallen in love with! These are layers, dimensions, we use to call it “world 96” and it is an endless circle of unnecessary suffering.
One must be able to move beyond the layer of false personality and rational explanations determined by the reality of power within which one is performing, or rather, within which one’s role is playing itself out with the other person, to free one’s self from the inner considering and suffering that comes with the rejection or lack of acknowledgement.
To be, does not mean that one does not feel the pain of not being loved by the community around one, the parent and the teacher, the child or the lover, it means that even acknowledging that one is not allowed to participate, one still IS even without other’s recognition. It is possible to perceive the fact that one is not recognised but the degree to which that affects one is much better controlled when one can stand in the acknowledgement of one’s own self. The power of the other person to destroy one is thus minimized. The suffering that one experiences is then more easily transformed.
Because we live in an age in which the power of a few, conditioned by a mentality tied to external values is so pervasive, it seems necessary to be much aware of what is happening so that one can continue to move within the bushes without allowing it to destroy or contain one’s spirit.
No matter where one goes, one will find set patterns of power in which one’s nationality, gender, race, social status, academic status and any other justification to separate one will mark the relationship that one is allowed to participate with. It is the instinctive center in still not so human beings, what has organized these separations to impose the power of a few over the many. In a more conscious humanity the only thing that will count is that you are a human being. Everyone will wish to protect you, incorporate you, wish you to develop and express yourself through your love and your work. Our great, great, great grand children will start living in happier times.
This is a digression on the subject: You’re welcome to skip it. I thank you for inspiring me to think about it. (The Fellowship of Friends does not just function in World 96 in which life functions mostly under the law of accident or mechanical reactions. What we have in the Fellowship of Friends would be more like World 192 in which a mature False peronality, a Hasnamus, has taken over the reigns of power backed up by many enablers in the community and the things that happen inside are not only acciddents but crimes. At this point, the sexual abuse of young men in the Fellowship of Friends is not an accident, it is a methodically prepared situation by Robert’s enablers to land the young man in his mouth. It is not a naturally descending octave without consequences, it is a dangerous descending octave for its participants.
I guess one of the difficulties about unconsciousness is the fact that people believe that they can get away with murder. One of the difficulties of consciousness is the understanding that one cannot get away with anything. One must respond for everything one has ever been connected to. It is not possible to argue that in one’s time it didn’t matter if you didn’t turn the lights off, whatever one wasted is taken into account and one must somehow make up for it. Nor could one say, I wasn’t raping anybody in the Fellowship of Friends, without it being obvious to the Seer that one was paying enough to let it happen.
I’m not interested in the fear that comes from the idea of paying or being “punished” as used by Robert Burton in his much disguised style, but in conveying an understanding of responsibility for one’s acts that will not impose such a tremendously long and unnecessary suffering for those still involved in the life of the Fellowship of Friends. The empowerment that comes from knowing that one is responsible for one’s self and the world around one, is one of the most beautiful aspects of living one’s life.)
Lauralupa 421 thanks for the bite of reality sandwich (a consistently good site):
“Underneath all the New Age expropriation of the trappings of indigenous spirituality and shamanism lies a yearning to return to the living realization of the indwelling divinity of all things. It is a way of seeing the world profoundly at odds with modern materialism’s reduction of the universe into a pile of stuff: generic masses subject to arbitrary, purposeless forces…
imagine a science, a technology, an economy, a culture founded on reverence….” (as opposed to insatiable greed, exploitation and rape).
vena 429 “So my question is why so many of us feel the desire to expose Robert and the Fellowship for the farce that they are.” That activity seems to be the “common ground” here… but it can also serve as a departure point for the possibility of more productive topics of “conversation.” I would agree that pointing out the farce is stating the obvious to most of us here and as a recurring theme it becomes a bit like “preaching (or is it singing?) to the choir.” In the past I’ve called it “beating a dead horse” but… I’ve rationalized my participation along these lines with the thought that by exposing the farce for what it is, a “fence sitter” who happens to be surfing the site, might be helped to cross over… realistically I’m not sure how likely that is. Came across an interesting quote — I thought it somewhat to applies to my own “confessions” here — for what it’s worth:
“To ‘confess’ is to indulge in a series of self-justifying utterances which claim to be ‘sincere,’ or to offer direct access to the writer’s memories and conscience. Yet confessions are always, in some sense, a strategy designed to ‘excuse’ the penitent by placing his guilt in a narrative context that explains it, and thus dissolves responsibility. Such excuses run the danger that ‘they will indeed exculpate the confessor, thus making the confession (and the confessional text) redundant as it originates.’” (from Paul de Man, Allegories of Reading: Figural Language in Rousseau, Nietzsche, Rilke, and Proust, pp. 278-301, in Christopher Norris, Deconstruction: Theory and Practice, p. 107).
Ton (432),
I went to the ‘reality sandwich’ shop and read that too, plus some of those articles over on the side, and ended up in a general funk.
“…lies a yearning to return to the living realization of the indwelling divinity of all things”.
Yearning, yearning, yearning isnt that what brought me to the Fellowship of Friends? I guess the yearning for me will be constant source of ?
‘ton:
Why would a newbie, fencesitter or any other FOFer totally immersed in the FOF doctrine read this blog, hmmm? Do you think it’s to learn about Tolle or Watts? I seriously doubt it. FOFers think the have all the answers anyway.
Will reading this blog have an effect on fence sitters? Dude, it already has! Take some time to read the blog from the beginning. Make no mistake…many people have left from reading this and more will jump ship as it sinks. So keep punching holes you guys, whatever or whenever you want! You are free to respond or not, it’s up to you. (Scroll on past me if I bother you, I won’t mind.)
There is plenty of room here for multiple conversations on many levels, don’t you think? Goodness, there is an infinite amount of space here! BTW, I am sure someone would invite you to join the Greater Fellowship site if you asked. It’s pretty cool, there is blog there too, several of them in fact, going on at any given time, or you can start your own there, too. (I’d miss your cool links, though.) That might a better departure point for a more productive type of organized, subject driven conversation for you, if that is the kind of headspace you are in.
It would spare you from this bullshit:
“When I yawn, I cover my mouth, in order to be different from the animals. Love, Robert”
When Robert yawns, he covers his mouth, in order to hide all the pubic hairs still stuck in his teeth.
Often comedy can make a negative perception more easily digestible…thus motivating a person to take action to avert a tragedy. Gee, perhaps that’s why there is a “no humor” exercise…how can a person know himself if he is not allowed to laugh at himself?
Rear View Mirror 425
Thanks for the poem. Discovering Walt Whitman is one of my good memories of the Fellowship years. His vision was so beautifully panentheist.
My personal experiences with altered and higher states have shown me that separateness is a layer of illusion. Our vibrations compenetrate each other all the time, and we can sometimes perform as a vessel for energies that we yet have no clear understanding of, other than the realization that they temporarily connect us with a higher vibrational level and deeper current of life.
BTW, to be different from the animals is definitely NOT one of my aims…
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SZU4nfDU8LU
433 arthur
ya well… there’s no accounting for taste is there (?)
good luck with your ‘general funk.’
434 whalerider
Vena, you wrote: “I have been trying to reach a place where my rejection of the Fellowship does not include a need to convince others or have them acknowledge the sickness in the group. I think this is what Eckhardt Tolle would describe as looking at something without the Ego.”
Well written.
I don’t know who’s persuaded by any of this. That said, perhaps one person is staring at the sunset right now at “the lodge” with a glass of wine in their hand, and something hits them and sinks in for just one second. It may not be “the blog”, and it may not be one friend leaving, or hearing something at a meeting that strikes them as odd. It may not be any one thing in particular.
But from the whole, they began to think differently. That’s the way it began for me.
But is anyone here really trying to convince? Probably yes. But isn’t that largely what the sharing of ideas involves? We talk about the primary elections or the environment or the economy, or career, or issues related to families and friends all the time. Sharing ideas and having an opinion is partly what makes us alive.
And this blog is very much alive that way. Heck, so is the Fellowship. But suffering from a malady called “No Outside Ideas Allowed.” So I see this more as an offering of help, and as much to ourselves by the way, as it is to anyone within the Fellowship.
And yep, it’s always good to keep an eye on that ego — which, after all, is largely what got each of us into the fof mess in the first place.
Lauralupe, that is a very pretty video, specially at the beginning, thank you.
Hey Ton, I was wondering if the singing to the choir was indirectly directed to me. Do forgive me if I go off where you don’t care to look for me but I do enjoy myself so much figuring things out for myself. As Whalerider says, just continue to jump over, one day I might understand something. As much as I’d like to converse with you and many of you, does it not seem like we are on different wavelengths? Is it just our different cultures?
Interesting to observe that we are each in our own little world and can hardly really have a conversation. And yet it is clear we want to be here, the few of us that are left. The ‘public’ cuts into the ‘intimate’.
Laura, to be different from animals…
we are different, what they do naturally and in perfect synchronicity with nature we do naturally and in perfect asynchronicity with our humanity. It is natural for them to devour each other physically but unnatural for us to do the same thing psychologically and if depraved enough, physically too like Robert does. If we had the luck to be like animals, we wouldn’t be such poor parents, lovers and friends and this is a statement of fact given with much love, not a judgement.
Vena, I don’t think we are trying to convince students in the Fellowship what they are about, I think we are trying or at least I am, to understand what we were doing there and what kept us there for so long. If anyone on the fence finds a similarity with their plight it is an accident, a joyful one. I doubt they read. They don’t want to think about it.
I also think we are trying to recover The human dialogue even if in this rather questionable form and with so many human disparities. I hear you. That is enough. And I talk. It helps me when someone hears. It doesn’t matter if we agree or not, it is not argument what interests me, but sitting around the campfire long enough that we recover the warmth. Disagreeing is alright too. Can we disagree intellectually, even emotionally and still sit around? That is more healing than agreeing or disagreeing. Laura’s music brings much warmth. Thank you for that Laura. But any participation seems to confirm how lonely we actually are.
If I had people to talk with about these things, I would certainly not be here. It is not a loneliness with great pain, just orphans without community.
Have had nothing to add, but wish to say thanks to
ton, yesri baba, lauralupa, rear view mirror,whalerider, kid shellen (or is it benny lava?), and vena for all the thought provoking and healing posts and links lately. It feels like you folks have taken things ‘up a notch’.
‘ton:
صُوفِيّ
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vgBDOWD9j5U&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ObNdrI-8nhw&feature=related
New vision, and new… and new:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4akNUE_lyfc
Thank you all!!!!!!!
Elena 438
No Elena, I didn’t have you in mind when writing the “choir” comment… and you don’t need to be forgiven, at least not by me — (? it may be that you need to forgive yourself? — but that’s up to you). And you don’t need to prove anything to anyone here, or elsewhere for that matter — it’s o.k. simply to be. It’s good to acknowledge the fact that people — that’s all of us — are on different wavelengths, it’s o.k. to be. This is conversing… you know Elena, although this is a dialogue it’s very much different than talking, at least for me it is. I talk to people all day long but could never go to the places inhabited by this particular community. After all is said and done, this about relating to each other, it is a way of creating community. Loneliness is part of the human condition, it is only being realistic to recognize and acknowledge the fact… we create community as an antidote to our loneliness, it’s not a sad thing, it can be seen as a joyous activity… love being.
“Buddhism speaks of interconnectedness or interdependency, and we typically understand that to mean a kind of relationship among separate subjects. The true teaching goes much deeper. It says that our very existence is woven out of relationships, that we are our relationships and nothing else. Inter-existence would be a word for it. And so karma is not an externally imposed punishment for doing ill to a separate “other” being; it is simply the direct consequence of all that we do, because the other is not in fact other.”
James, a “shout-out” to you, it’s good to know you’re still (t)here and checking in.
All the best
Fantastic Video 440/You-me-us-they.
The Hand-O-God does not stop working in mysterious ways.
All hail the Creator-Endlessness.
Thanks Ton, I thought we were saying the same thing but I guess it can’t be understood if others say it.
I do find sad the fact that the lack of community makes orphans of parents, children and people in general no matter how cohesive the small units might think they are. We’ve gotten lost in the city unable to find each other. Maybe it’s just me, well, at least it’s true on one level!
There are millions of things to be sad about but not depressed about. Or to simply acknowledge that they can be made better. Wouldn’t you say it is just a position to think everything is O.K.; nothing is O.K.? Just be? Wasn’t it like that in the Fellowship?
“The purpose of the sacraments is to purify, and to open the road. When it opens, it’s as clear as the blue sky, and the stars at night are as bright as suns”.
–Aurelia Aurora Catarino (Mazatec shaman)
Different strokes for different folks (centers of gravity)? It’s all a matter of tastes.
Things are changing
Like the wind blowing
Always wind
And moving air.
The fellowship of friends is changing
Be patient
Mark my words,
Time will do the job
Doing is not doing
Be well and enjoy the one you are with
The fellowship is changing a lot.
Whenever I am upset about an issue
Like the felloswship or Robert
There is something that is not completely clean and clear in myself.
And of course what are words.
I have been wrong before.
http://bennylava.com/
Looking back on my FOF experience I can see how I lost all touch with reality. I did not see the world as it is, thinking it as something to reject, and unworthy of my attention. I did a lot of damage to my family, and it will take quite an effort on my part to fix things.
On the plus side, by owning up to the fact that I was in a cult for many years, I can finally deal with situations as they really are. My starry-eyed stupid idealistic days are over and there is much hard work to be done for me.
In relation to coming clean, out of the cult closet so to speak
is not an easy thing,
how did you guys deal with it?
As Benny Lava – Avatar of the New Age, With looney bun securely shellaced to my astralhole, I come to you now with arms wide and legs akimbo to teach you (and only you) the most holy of holies (donation guidelines to follow). All who would follow me please bow your heads at this time and repeat after me the sacred chant handed down from the time when the Ancient ones first appeared on the magic screen:
Romper, Stomper, Bomper, Boo…
Mick, thanks!
Breathing…
the fragility of tyranny.
Yesssssssssssssssssss!
Senza l’ombra d’un rimorso
(without the shade of a remorse)
440 is newly moderated.
444 “I thought we were saying the same thing but I guess it can’t be understood if others say it.”
Elena, I think if we are saying the same thing it is understood;
if we may be saying the same thing, that does not imply it is not being understood. Repeating or rephrasing simply reflects a slightly different perspective.
Yes, I would agree with you when you write; “it is just a position to think everything is O.K.; nothing is O.K. Just be…” but I did not say or write that EVERYTHING IS OK — that is not my “position,” you misinterpret if you read that into what I was attempting to convey. I was more specific with you than that; “everything” is definitely not o.k. What I DO think is “o.k.,” is to take/ have a position. That, it seems to me, is not a characteristic of the Fellowship brainwash.
Maybe because it was a long time ago, the fact of the matter is that I rarely use my Fellowship experience as a frame of reference for current thought processes. I really don’t think in terms of what “it was like in the Fellowship” as you put it, but since you brought it up, to answer your question: no it was not “like that in the Fellowship.” Things there were obviously not right or “O.K.” we might have been duped into thinking so for a while, maybe that is what you’re referring to?
You know what Elena, I really don’t feel like I’m lost… but I do know that feeling and sympathize if it’s what you are experiencing. I know it can be difficult, uncomfortable… but don’t get stuck… a bit of sage advice I received a long time ago was “just wiggle.” Upon reflection I see the “wiggle” as a sign of life… sometimes it’s more like squirming, or writhing… whatever, you’ll find your way through.
God Laughing
” I did a lot of damage to my family, and it will take quite an effort on my part to fix things.”
Ya, I hear you God. In my case, it’s taken 25 years of efforts and yet scars from damage to the relationships remain. Things between the family and I were/ are irrevocably altered by the way I treated them as a result of Fellowship programming. I mended things as well as I could and continue to stay in regular, if infrequent contact but I think their perception was that my behavior was a betrayal. Apologizing and acknowledging an immature, misguided mistake helped to get me back on speaking and relating terms but there’s a history which includes something like a promise that was broken, something was broken, (their hearts) and although things are “mended” there remains a gimp in relations.
440 whalerider, thanks for “the greatest speech of the 21st century.” graylan is right on a righteous cause… “THE SCHOOL OF THE AMERICAS”IS A BLIGHT ON THE PLANET! IT IS AN EMBODIMENT OF EVIL!
(your tax dollars at work).
Thanks Tons!
So love,
Elena
Barack Hussein Obama’s spiritual guide:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk3LXvVlsI4
(Also click on the ‘name link’ above)
صُوفِيّ
We are discovering again that we live in a deeply mysterious world, full of sudden coincidences and synchronistic encounters that seem destined.
As more of us awaken to this mystery, we will create a completely new worldview-redefining the universe as energetic and sacred.
We will discover that everything around us, all matter consists of and stems from a divine energy that we are beginning to see and understand.
From this perspective, we can see that humans have always felt insecure and disconnected from this sacred source, and have tried to take energy by dominating each other. This struggle is responsible for all human conflict.
The only solution is to cultivate a personal reconnection with the divine, a mystical transformation that fills us with unlimited energy and love, extends our perception of beauty, and lifts us into a Higher-Self Awareness.
In this awareness, we can release our own pattern of controlling, and discover a specific truth, a mission, we are here to share what helps humanity toward a new level of reality.
In pursuit of this mission, we can discover an inner intuition that shows us where to go and what to do, and if we make only positive interpretations, brings a flow of coincidences that opens the doors for our mission to unfold.
When enough of us enter this evolutionary flow, always giving energy to the higher-self of everyone we meet, we will build a new culture where our bodies evolve to even higher levels of energy and perception.
In this way, we participate in the long journey of evolution from the Big Bang to life’s ultimate goal: to energize our bodies, generation by generation, until we walk into a heaven we can finally see.
James Redfield, “The Celestine Prophecy”
423 Kid Shelleen
Your post jogged an old memory of also hearing Bob talking about the Allan Watts experience. The only thing I remember from his “observations” was that he made a point of Watts’ teeth being really bad looking and decayed. He somehow equated this with Watts not being awake. So, all seekers of truth, check your potential teachers snappers and gums, like you would a horse at auction, before joining.
Hardtruth and Whalerider-
Thank you for the two vids of the clear seeing men with the courage to stand up and speak the truth about Amerika.
Oh, and Hardtruth- Fuck you.
Loved the sand painting!
More reflections on art, nature and impermanence…
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3TWBSMc47bw
Ton,
Who could stop wiggling with Benny Lava?
458 I highly recommend the film RIVERS AND TIDES to those who haven’t seen it.
454 hardtruth, let’s try this again — maybe your attention span is a little better this time ’round:
http://science-community.sciam.com/blog-entry/Mind-Matters/Harvard-Students-Perceive-Rednecks-Neural/300008563
445 arthur
Ya, as your quote indicates, approaching the plant teachers with right reverence (sacramentally), and with purity of intention is key. Using the teachers out of idle curiosity or as a way to acquire “spiritual powers” or simply as escape, as a way to get high — these are flawed and potentially self-destructive approaches. Upon reflection, I’ve come away from my experiences, with a realization that rather than me using the plant, the plant was using me. The plant teachers act as emissaries for the living biosphere, it’s the way “Gaia” can speak in no uncertain terms to the “two-leggeds.” IMO it’s a type of Gnosis and as such, true “old time religion.”
“Foreigners come here without thinking, looking for a cure from reality… But in the wrong hands, it can be a disaster,” she said. “It can send people to hell.”
Aurelia Aurora Catarino
‘ton wrote,
Things between the family and I were/ are irrevocably altered by the way I treated them as a result of Fellowship programming. I mended things as well as I could and continue to stay in regular, if infrequent contact but I think their perception was that my behavior was a betrayal. Apologizing and acknowledging an immature, misguided mistake helped to get me back on speaking and relating terms but there’s a history which includes something like a promise that was broken, something was broken, (their hearts) and although things are “mended” there remains a gimp in relations.
I can’t speak to your experience but I can speak to mine.
The family rift preceded the cult involvement and fostered it. The rift between myself and my family, more covert than overt, isolated me, and exacerbated the exact vulnerability which cult recruitment and indoctrination exploits.
I too did what I could to mend that rift in the wake of events, but I had to recognize that even the best mend only returns the garment close to what it was.
Veronicapoe,
You make an important point. It is one I thought to include but chose to omit for the sake of brevity but mostly to keep things simpler. There were (and are) indeed factors within the family constellation prior to the Fellowship which would contribute and lead to involvement in a cult; you mention the “rift” and feelings of isolation, vulnerability which the cult exploits — very astute.
The bigger picture of my biography would need to take into account personal history prior to the Fellowship — family relations would necessarily be a huge factor. The one-sided and limited version of my earlier post might be explained by the “messy” and complex nature of relations within the “family of origin.” I didn’t want to go there but it’s an interesting, important, huge and complicated subject. Further insights and comments on the topic, I’m sure would help the dialogue onto fertile grounds of self-understanding.
Ton, Veronicapoe,
Nothing happens here without it turning downside up and forward in other realms. The great longings we experience here bring one to their reality in the other side which is just a hair away, no, that is too thick, a breath away.
Mother died when I was almost nine and the longing finally brought us together thirty-five years later.
I walk in golden pavilions for a while then see a door and a big room with just enough light where she comfortably sits on the floor. We look. No Words. Look with loving curiosity. See each other. It has been thirty-five years since we have last looked at each other and she has as much curiosity about what I look like as I do about her. Her face is beautiful as always but the face of life holds only in the inner part of the face. It is clean of lines in the centre but as I look into the outer circle of the face, everything that she has suffered during these thirty-five years after her death is there. She is beautiful. The suffering does not hide itself.
We continued to look. No words. Embracing without touching. The embrace clearly penetrates her message. “In these dimension we are always together, do not worry about separation”
#442 “I talk to people all day long but could never go to the places inhabited by this particular community…”
#462 “I didn’t want to go there…”
Let’s go there together.
This blog is a great enterprise, don’t you think?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nHhePr0TKfc
454. Hardtruth
I think you are on the wrong blog. Do a Google search for Aryan Nation and you might get the site you are looking for.
The blog is like Andy Goldworthy’s work. Each subject we touch on fades away but something remains. We flow downstream and separate like the logs each returning back to itself.
Why do people use ‘oftentimes’ instead of ‘often’?
It doesn’t sound more clever or wise you know…
Like using ‘for’ instead of ‘because’, such pathetic affectation.
‘I oftentimes add an entry to this blog, for it is better to be heard than to be silent’.
Richard M.
454. Hardtruth
I think you are on the wrong blog. Do a Google search for Aryan Nation and you might get the site you are looking for.
* * *
Hardtruth: Not too long ago you wrote a couple of very potent and compelling commentaries on the fellowship of friends. Now you come back again with this. (I say again because it seems like you posted something else earlier about Barack Obama).
I am a bit dumbfounded. You sound intelligent. I am personally, for the most part, apolitical, but I wonder why you appear to be so afraid of Mr Obama. I think if you will look more closely inside of yourself, I would be willing to bet that it has nothing to do with Mr Obama or the preacher of the church he attends.
If you still feel the same way after closer inspection I would follow the advice of Richard M. and check out the other narrow minded folks who unfortunately abound.
467 Vinnie the Fish
Oh Vinnie, you are SO special, and you have such a fine and critical mind.
If you really are curious about that intriguing question that you asked, if I were you, I would pose that same question to Benny Lava, for it may be only he that would have the real answer for which you so ardently seek.
Elena 463 that was beautiful. “You’re innocent when you dream” and there’s something beautiful and whole about innocence.
464 Whalerider, the onion metaphor comes to mind — you begin by peeling away a layer, then another etc, and there’s no telling where it leads. Unraveling the story is certainly not about convenience… and after-all, what’s at the center of an onion?
If you care to begin the process, “I’m all ears…”
I think the point of my previous remarks regarding the role of personal history leading up to cult involvement, might have to do with shifting focus from a specific event or episode (the FOF for example), seeing it in a larger context and then maybe as a result, being able to withdraw a bit from playing the “blame game.” How do we heal? especially when it comes to wounds of the soul? I could re-quote Ron Franz here but you can scroll back to 415 and re-read his words or better still, for context, see the movie.
:~)
Hey vinnie I have no idea what you’re referring to but 467 begs the question: does your “teacher” hear you? And does “it” know you’re here or do you remain silent on that issue?
:~(
Thanks Ton, I’m understanding something after the friction yesterday.
I looked at the reading you suggest for Hardtruth and thought it very nice the way they put those things into specific places in the brain. Wouldn’t you say though that everything that is said in there fits equally well the idea that all those pre-established patterns are fixed in our attitudes and our attitudes are fixed by the environment we grow up in?
In that sense the exploration of one’s childhood can bring so much beauty and at the same time so many layers to separate from. Whalerider, it seems like a great idea, please begin! I think we are so afraid of exposing such aspect of our lives because people often use it against one later but once one has made peace with one’s little life, it is wonderful to stand up to it. It is wonderful to forgive one’s parents because they actually deliver “our time” on our being, not in words but in acts and it is those acts, those facts, that we then have to digest and live with, transform and re-deliver.
I just came back from the Scientology manifestation in Montgomery and Washington. There were mostly young kids but a few old inner circle scientologists who were very helpful. They said picketing definitely has worked throughout history. That while the attitude of “there is that idiot picketing out there” is on the surface, to actually look at your face looking at them makes a huge difference.
It made a difference to walk with these young kids, masked thoroughly to protect themselves from harassment and apparently seven people have been killed by scientology, they said. I made up a sign saying The Fellowship of Friends Cult is as sick as scientology, they hurt people. The signs they had could have served equally to the Fellowship. The families, the exemption of taxes and the brainwashing, people getting hurt. Most of the a hundred and fifty youngsters had not even been in the Cult but are an anonymous group that is becoming very aware of how scientology is trying to silence people on the internet. They spoke strongly on freedom of speech.
It was a great thing to be there! They also talked about the greed. When I say talk, I mean they had signs with these issues. They seemed to not be much bothered by the fact that I took advantage of the many of them to show my little sign and at least four hundred people are more aware today that the Fellowship of Friends exists and someone says it hurts people. It feels good to not forget.
They also said, we do not forgive. If forgiving means one does nothing to stop the Fellowship from continuing its rampant drive, I also do not forgive but I have nothing personal against anyone person inside. It is what you are doing what will be stopped sooner than you’d like. I hope I don’t allow my healthiness to let me forget for it is very tempting to do so and not care about the idiots that fall into the trap. Idiots for seventeen years. No, I care.
‘ton:
“…what’s at the center of an onion?”
(Ya gotta love those plant teachers!)
What is at the center of your onion is for your eyes only. You’ll know you’re getting close…only by the tears.
How to heal? For myself, I have to fight to heal. It’s a struggle.
Take it from a frog who still has his voice, when evil pays a visit, at the end, forgiveness is just in your head:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=S1omcbtjAOk
P.S. They explained, that very few scientology members were there because they are so afraid of the repercussions which seem frightfully agressive from the Cult on people’s lives.
The day The Fellowship of Friends makes that mistake, it’ll mark the beginning of the end, for deep down we much love each other’s infinite love, patience and tolerance with Robert and the rest. We know what we each payed and that we got nothing back. We know who we are and what we are. Dare you hurt us more.
Yesri baba
“Oh, and Hardtruth- Fuck you.”
tom
“hardtruth, let’s try this again — maybe your attention span is a little better this time ’round:”
(link to hyper-liberal brainwashing)
Richard M.
“454. Hardtruth, I think you are on the wrong blog. Do a Google search for Aryan Nation and you might get the site you are looking for.”
James McLemore
“Hardtruth: I am a bit dumbfounded. You sound intelligent. I am personally, for the most part, apolitical, but I wonder why you appear to be so afraid of Mr Obama.”
It seems that if you criticize Obama you must have something wrong with you. The reason for that mindset seems to be the fear of appearing to be a racist. Regardless of his race this particular politician is nothing but talk, clever and effective talk, but there is little in-office experience behind the grand speeches. That he evokes RFK, JFK and MLK in reference to himself is laughable except to people under the Obama spell. I posted a link featuring Obama’s pastor of 20 years, by now well known in the press, someone that conducted Obama’s marriage, baptized his three children and lent Obama the title of his book. The pastor clearly enjoys raging against white people, against the government and its history and obviously enjoys it when enemies of the U.S. attack the country. Obama sat listening to this man nearly every Sunday morning for 20 years and now he is running for president of the United States, there is a certain amount of what is politically indefensible in that fact. If Obama becomes the Democratic nominee, an extreme left-winger running against a centrist Republican, he will lose by probably two dozen states. He is the wrong choice, he has only won a primary in one large state, his own state of Illinois. In the national election he will not even carry California because the Hispanic vote will not be there for him. But the real interesting thing about all this is the reaction on this blog from veterans of cult brainwashing expressing their expertise on what motivates people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_guilt
You are missing the point Greggy. It isn’t about race and it isn’t about politics. The point is that you are an asshole.
475 Yesri baba
I agree, he’s an asshole. But I don’t think it’s Greg (if that’s who you mean by Greggy). Greg is a lot of things, but I don’t think he’d spout this shit. There was some method to his madness.
The different ends of the spectrum that hardtruth has taken has me confused. That one post describing the fellowship was so dead on, but his (or her) posts before and after that one are just fucking off the wall, as is his political paranoia. That’s why, as I said before, that I have a feeling that he’s a “kid” (meaning young), with a mind, but too much Fellowship self regard.
Hardtruth,
It sounds like you’re concerned about any candidate who may have supporters with extreme points of view. So thought you’d find this interesting…
http://burghreport.blogspot.com/2008/02/mccain-proud-of-anti-catholic-preachers.html
The following is from the above website…
—————————–
Thursday, February 28, 2008
McCain Proud of Anti-Catholic Preacher’s Support
Sen. John McCain called a press conference today where McCain accepted the endorsement of a virulent anti-Catholic preacher from Texas.
From JohnMcCain.com:
“I’m very honored by Pastor John Hagee’s endorsement today,” McCain said at a news conference. “He has been the staunchest leader of our Christian evangelical movement in many areas, but especially, most especially, his close ties and advocacy for the freedom and independence of the state of Israel.”
So who is John Hagee?
Hagee once wrote, “Most readers will be shocked by the clear record of history linking Adolf Hitler and the Roman Catholic Church in a conspiracy to exterminate the Jews.” – Jerusalem Countdown (revised edition, 2007, p. 114)
—————————–
And then there’s another posting…
http://www.pissedonpolitics.com/2008/03/will_mccain_reject_and_renounc.htm
“One would think after the way Tim Russert made Obama jump through hoops with regard to Farrakhan’s unsolicited endorsement of him that the press would do the same to McCain. Obama was made to ‘Reject and Renounce’ the Farrakhan endoresement because Hillary said rejecting it was not enough.
“Seems to me McCain should be made to Reject and Renounce the support of John Hagee.
“But I can understand why McCain would welcome the support of John Hagee since they share the common dream of bombing Iran.”
Anyway, just stating another perspective on the topic.
476 Brucelevy
1) Why would anyone be posting this inciting crap on this blog?
2) The syntax is the same
3) The mirroring back of statements often with an ecclectic assortment of videos in response.
4) Greggy’s ranting bombardment of anti-Iranian news stories on the GF site.
I do agree it is a kid. It will become apparent soon enough. It will become increasingly confrontational and abusive. It is a compulsion.
Recently I had been sort of missing the presence of FOFers like fat boy or psychic to spice up the dialogue on this blog. I was wondering if they are still lurking, and if they had just run out of things to say. Then Vinnie shows up, and I should be relieved, but the content of this comeback just makes me sad.
Form, form, form, what a dead obstination, like a stone blindly thrown in this sea of life.
BTW, being the “lunar” (read wilful and precise) creature that I am, I did check and for the last three pages the only person using that word has been unoanimo.
So, I shall address this pressing question directly to him:
in heaven’s name, uno, why oftentimes and not often?
Interestingly (at least for me), Fiona Apple has often been picked on for her unusual vocabulary, which IMO is just another confirmation that if you wanna miss the point of what is being said, the easiest way to do so is to just focus on the superficial details.
PS. Vinnie, cunts are still running the world
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7AUAOuLxbLo
Hello Laura ~
You asked ~
“So, I shall address this pressing question directly to him:
in heaven’s name, uno, why oftentimes and not often?”
______________________________________________
Honestly Laura, oftentimes I simply write words that seem to resonate with me emotionally (it’s spontaneous) and I do not even think about it (that’s not to say that the word itself is not thinking for me).
I do not feel any acting in it (yet, that does not mean much: let’s see…)
Anyone can take another’s nature and lay it out like an ancient scroll, unfurl it and start doing the Freud-thing to it and win every time (though for themselves and their imaginary projections only, believe me, I know)
I guess the deeper question is ‘Am I being defensive by stating the obvious first and skirting around the application of the question to myself? Maybe I am…)
If I really dig deep and get a hold onto the ‘orb’ that this “oftentimes” belongs to, it’s birth most likely took place during a time when I was just discovering Shelley, Byron, Rilke, Plath, Dickens, and the likes and identifying with them as the brothers and sisters (friends) I yearned to have in the living and did not…
It’s most likely some ‘patch’ on a big patchwork quilt, a sort of ‘romantic blanket’ of sorts that belongs to the portion of my soul that has willy nilly knitted this thing to survive the oftentimes brutal food fights of life, similar to the one Linus in Charlie Brown stories drags around:
Though, I really do not feel it’s “affectation”… I looked this word up on Google and if it was ‘pretense’ or ‘not a natural behavior’ then I would not have a ’shadow side’ (naturally) to which some of the sowing needles and patchworks may belong to, things are a bit mixed up these days…
‘Natural’ is a very relative term… So, I suppose it’s really in the heart of the writer of such “oftentimes” to confess, if there’s been any ’sin’…
For me, I would say that this ‘romantic blanket’ has functioned as a sort of ’shadow comfort’, that it has absorbed allot of life’s unpleasant ‘liquids’ and disallowed them to sink deep into my conscience and consciousness: so although (and not ‘though’) I may still use these words from time to time, it does not mean they are using me…
Although they have and I them… So, yes, such words are like little ‘gimmie my teddy bear back-prayers’ going nowhere but into the snake swallowing its tail, that pile up and can create a monstrous Siren that unfurls its razored wings and starts spinning inside oneself at speeds a tornado would blush in the midst of…
We talk to ourselves and this is an odd thing I think: perhaps there’s a deeper truth in the very fact that we can talk to ourselves than we consciously acknowledge… For just maybe there’s really a conversation taking place and not a pretended one or an “affectation”:
though what might have happened to some of us is that we lost the inner connection to this conversation and started taking it outside ourselves and into the streets, into the blog and into relationships, expectations, plans, projects, children, careers, et cetera. (See, there it happened, “et cetera” instead of etc.)
So, yes, there is something in all of us that needs us more than the External World seems to often need us and this need is real because its a condition…
In my case, it (the use of such words) could have been (on a wider scale than a premeditated, in the moment aiming of an aristocratic dart) a way to keep the fire within (instead of ‘in’) me away from the Infant Wing belonging to the hospital: though all along, what I have learned in the last three or four weeks, curiously enough it’s that very ‘wing’ that has been on fire the whole time…
So, now that I am at the end of this posting I figure it like this, that for me, such words are ‘little wishes’ that have colored my earth-trauma-existence for a long time, they have served as a sort of literary opiate, an erection being used as a toothpick by a dragon… So, there you have it; now I have to go back through the book I am writing and word search for all those ‘high-collars’.
_______________________________
L.t.y.a.
halftruth 474 you wrote:
“I posted a link featuring Obama’s pastor of 20 years…”
halftruth, at least he ain’t no moozlim, right?
But seriously, post 474 explains a little about your political position and IMO you make a good point in equating politics with cult mentality. Let me point something out: the trouble with brainwashing is that you can’t see it in yourself; did you think you were “above it all” because you align yourself with “the other side”? It’s sad that there has to be “sides” — that’s how wars begin.
Some of the “buzzwords” you toss around such as “hyper-liberal” indicates the degree and type of your own brainwashing (is “liberal” a “dirty word” to you? If so then, “hyper-liberal” must be a really dirty word, right? Where do you get this from, FOX news, Rush Limberger?). Applying the notion of a cult mentality to the followers of Obama may have some merit but if you limit this observation to one candidate then you miss the bigger picture. You can accurately apply that criticism to the whole farcical sideshow that surrounds politics, especially the campaign and “primaries” leading up to the election. As Rome burns, there’s almost two years of “nothing but talk, clever and effective talk” as you put it… But it’s coming from ALL SIDES and not only the candidate who you seem to fear, the other candidates have their cult following as well.
Don’t get me wrong halftruth, I’m not a supporter of Obama and I’m no supporter of the political process in general. In fact, I think it’s dangerous for Obama and the state of the nation if he were to be elected but not because of his ideas, not for what he represents or the color of his skin, but rather, I fear some nut-job with a slightly more twisted, virulent racist view than your own would probably find a way to put a bullet into him… heaven forbid, we don’t need another martyr, another national tragedy “we the people” have enough of a mess to deal with as it is).
Yesri, Bruce, I thought halftruth might be female before a string of those “greg-like” videos were posted (just wondering aloud, not intending offense to the wonderful and strong women posters here).
halftruth, you can run…
uno 481
Dear unoanimo,
I am honestly grateful and surprised that you took the time and energy to give such a deep and intimate answer to such a sarcastic and obviously not serious (at least for me) question…
thanks for that!
I first fell in love with the english language when I was a child, listening to my parents’ record collection, and for me personally it’s still the tongue of freedom, music, fun, love and anger.
Probably because of this and because it’s not my mothertongue, I tend not to take myself too seriously when using it, and I end up employing a lot of slang and catchphrases just because they stick to my memory and I childishly like the way they sound.
I also use google quite a bit, since I am often not sure if what I write really reflects what I think it means… so, although I enjoy very much writing in english I am definitely not aware of many of its subtleties, and of the way some words may resonate with a native speaker… I have to admit that oftentimes is a perfectly fine word for me!
ton 482
just wanted to mention that I was also thinking of posting the gnarls barkley video but you beat me to it…
I think you’re crazy just like me
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bd2B6SjMh_w
483 ~
Laura ~
For me; it has been the very ‘things’ that I have been ‘professionally’ “sarcastic and obviously not serious” about that have proven to be the ‘things’ that are most serious about destroying me and the deeper places in my core existence and have somehow wound up my innocence long ago into a golf ball and killed about five thousand hawks throughout this life’s filming of ‘It’s My Goddamn Show’…
Right now, I can only trust and pray that the spirit-mother of those four thousand nine hundred ninety-nine ‘bull’s eyes’ can entrust to me at least one of her eggs to hold in my own breast and nurture.
When a person is overly occupied always with the garden and the fruits of what it produces, the picking and eating, the digestion and the manure collecting afterwards for ‘more growth’ (the fertilizing of the Hope itself, that cosmic compost pile within oneself and the enthusiasm invested towards that production and garden building project) it is very often that one completely and somehow expertly skims over the Winter months within oneself, the areas and moments when one is ‘dead’ and ‘gone’, yet still here…
Life is so quick within us at times that it (the energy and daily-mind of living) jumps over Death, like a hurdle in a race that’s about seeing who can keep racing without being conscious of a ‘Finish Line’,
while too, such ‘racer-jumpers’ forget, time and time again, that the ‘ambition to jump’ is birthed from the very fear of death and all that it presently does imply if only one could cease, a little at a time, the living of the Now as if Winter or Springtime had only the right to exist within oneself as Opposites, rather than an Absolute Siamese Twin phenomenon.
Perhaps opposites attract because they are One. (?)
That the possible ‘foreign installment’ within all of us has separated them into Opposing ’sides’ of a Once Upon a Time One Body:
now divided by some diabolical interest, that cares nothing of one’s innocence and real ability to bring a sort of sacred happiness to one’s own inner sphere without the outer as prerequisite: this ‘impulse’ divides and divides, offering up each Siamese ‘complete body’ to its Now-One-Leg,
to simply stand and be a scarecrow and not a ‘real gardener’ to neither itself, the earth, the garden or the crows: now, RIGHT THERE is a place to behold.
___________________
L.t.y.a.
More salary lay-offs. Nick S. and Benjamin Y. to name two. It is said to be about 60 this time. More long time supporters leaving. Fellowship is unable to pay the insurance on at least some of it’s vehicles. They can no longer be driven off the property.
I cant get U-tube clearly so I’ve missed a lot. Gnarls Barkley gets turned up whenever he comes on the radio.
Lets see. Sheik not a native speaker.
Elena not a native speaker.
Lauralupa not a native speaker.
I’m a native speaker and oftentimes when I read Uno or non-native english speakers, I’m wowed.
About John Hagee the preacher. I’ve heard him enough that when he sits up shop in Isreal and begins to proselytize those people who stand in front of the Wailing Wall, praying and moving back and forth. You’ve seen them. They wear black with hair ringlets. Well, that’s the day his troubles really begin. He justs thinks Liberals are a bane on his society.
I was visiting on the ‘other’ website and saw photographs of what looked like a Shaman visit by a former FOF’er. That was neat.
Pardon the mis-spellings and native grammer.
from fourthwaycult.net
As soon as possible this teacher [should dismiss] the disciple, who becomes his own man of wisdom, and then he continues his self-work.
False masters in Sufism, as everywhere else, have not been few. So the Sufis are left with the strange situation that whereas the false teacher may appear to be genuine (because he takes pains to appear what the disciple wants him to be), the true Sufi is often not like what the undiscriminating and untrained Seeker thinks a Sufi should be like.
… The false teacher will pay great attention to appearance, and will know how to make the Seeker think that he is a great man, that he understands him, that he has great secrets to reveal.
… Sufism is something that happens to a person, not something which is given to him. The false teacher will keep his followers around him all the time, will not tell them that they are being given a training which must end as soon as possible, [and will not give them the opportunity to] taste their development themselves and carry on as fulfilled people.
Idries Shah, The Sufis
I would like to suggest to those still in the area who are already out of the Fellowship to consider offering work or any other type of assistance to those that are currently being taken off salary, especially those who served for many years for little pay and consequently have nothing to fall back on. Many have been out of the job market for years and have no retirement or savings and little social security. They are let go with no concern for their well being or appreciation for their years of work.
brucelevy (488),
That was a clear definition of why not to be in the CULT called the Fellowship of Friends owned by Robert Earl Burton and co-hosted by G. Haven and Asaf the illegal alien.
Thanks friends and sorry Arthur :=)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a15KgyXBX24
jx.
489 Vena
In a perfect world I would think members would help members.
Just thinking for myself that I wouldn’t feel comfortable that at least 10% of one’s help would be funneled back to the FOF. I can more readily see helping people leave, not stay. That’s just me.
Oh, was I projecting? Reeeeeaaally. I was under the impression that absolutely everything was projected- dreamed out into the world. I didn’t realise that everyone else has had their brain and spinal cord plucked out like partially congealed snot (read: booger) and are experiencing the cosmos as infinitely streaming luminescent green numbers on the boundless walls of the void.
I feel so silly.
“Loved the video Jack”
Monkey Boy
Bruce and Greg:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/03/14/csi.manson.ap/index.html
CVB: “Fellowship is unable to pay the insurance on at least some of it’s vehicles. They can no longer be driven off the property.”
LOL. I didn’t realize RVW/FOF actually cared about insurance and vehicle safety, etc. Maybe a few bad experiences over the years have changed their thinking.
Thanks for that report. Some of the more devoted followers with larger bank accounts must be keeping the ship afloat?
By the way, for those who don’t know… Apollo Olive Oil is intimately affiliated with the Fellowship of Friends. It’s interesting that the company takes great pains to distance itself from the cult.
Unless I missed an obscure reference buried somewhere within their pages, there’s not one mention of the FOF on their website.
And here’s some irony: At the very top of their home page, they link an article about fraud in the olive oil business. I’m not sure what they’re suggesting… that somehow Apollo Olive Oil and the Fellowship of Friends are above fraud?
http://apollooliveoil.com/
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/08/13/070813fa_fact_mueller
———–
CVB: “Fellowship is unable to pay the insurance on at least some of it’s vehicles. They can no longer be driven off the property.”
LOL. I didn’t realize RVW/FOF actually cared about insurance and vehicle safety, etc. Maybe a few bad experiences over the years have changed their thinking.
Thanks for that report. Some of the more devoted followers with larger bank accounts must be keeping the ship afloat?
By the way, for those who don’t know… Apollo Olive Oil is intimately affiliated with the Fellowship of Friends. It’s interesting that the company takes great pains to distance itself from the cult.
Unless I missed an obscure reference buried somewhere within their pages, there’s not one mention of the FOF on their website.
And here’s some irony: At the very top of their home page, they link a New Yorker article about fraud in the olive oil business. I’m not sure what they’re suggesting… that somehow Apollo Olive Oil and the Fellowship of Friends are above fraud?
http://apollooliveoil.com/
Here’s the text of the link and the link itself:
“Recent article in the New Yorker exposes fraud in the Italian olive oil business. ‘Fraud is so widespread that few growers can make an honest living,’ one expert says.”
Unbelievable. “Make an honest living,” is not a phrase you’d expect on any website affiliated with the Fellowship of Friends.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/08/13/070813fa_fact_mueller
Bruce, thanks for the fourthwaycult.net link. The text you copied about tells it all.
Bruce, Vena,
It really is unconscionable the way people are used and discarded by the Fellowship of Friends. I’m not in the area so maybe my input here is moot but I would have a similar reluctance to help if there was continued FOF membership and especially if there was a possibility that funds were going to be redirected back to contrubute to the absurd excesses of twinkle toes. The GF website has great potential as a resource and support network for people who are trying to leave… most of us here know how difficult the transition back to “life” is, and I agree the folks who want to jump ship should be supported in anyway possible.
Thanks Vena.
Jack 491 great vid.
495 veronicapoe
I was obviously luckier than I thought.
Hi again
Thanks for the fourthwaycult link link Bruce.
For those who dont get around to going there, here is an excerpt.
“J&C studied under a man named James Vincent Randazzo, who ran a Fourth Way school called “The Spiral of Friends”. Randazzo, in turn, learned about The System from Robert Burton and his international “Fellowship of Friends”.
Randazzo’s legal troubles are well documented. In 1985, he was fined for poaching, and several automatic weapons were removed from his home by police. In 1989, Randazzo and his wife Colleen were convicted of sexually abusing and exploiting children. Four teenagers (two boys and two girls) were given cocaine and videotaped having sex with the couple. The Randazzos claimed the sex was done in the children’s own good, as treatment for depression and to boost their self-esteem. The court found otherwise. James was sentenced to seventeen and a half years in prison, and Colleen received ninety days in jail followed by a period of probation. In 1994, the Colorado courts refused Randazzo’s bid for an appeal.
Before these run-ins with the police, Jim and Carolyn were students of Randazzo in Grand Junction, Colorado. At some point in the mid 80’s, they left the group to start their own school. Randazzo told his remaining followers that the Kuziaks had stolen money from him, and that they would not get any endorsement from him.
The details are not entirely clear, as Randazzo has been described as a “Sicilian wheeler-dealer”, an excellent salesman skilled at manipulating people. In fact, during his trouble with the law, he never told his followers that he had to pay any fines, and he boasted “they could never pin anything on him”.
Coincidentally, Randazzo himself left his teacher’s school in much the same way that J&C apparently left Randazzo. Randazzo had run away from the Fellowship of Friends (FOF), stealing ranch donations and other funds. The leader of the FOF, Robert Burton, then denounced him as a criminal. Randazzo had left behind a single pair of pants with a broken zipper, and Burton (always interpreting events as if they symbolized some higher truth) believed this was proof that Randazzo was “damaged in that area” (ie, he had sexual problems).”
Now that is the pot calling the kettle black. Burtoon probably burst that zip tearing the guys dick out.
If you wish to help end it, click below and then on petition and see if you have an appropriate letter in you.
http://fellowshipoffriends.wikispaces.com/
As they say by their fruit shall ye know them.
jx
502 unoanimo
Alejandro’s son. Very cool, thanks. I remember him as the son in El Topo, he must have been 7 or 8.
502
Like a modern Un chien andalou. it’s got that flavor.
I with you bruce. I am most invested in nudging others to liberate themselves from the matrix, crazy fool that I am.
The thought occurred to me today that one reason we may only infrequently hear from the lovely cake please, psychic, fatboy and probably a host of others is the dial-up issue. I was thinking that may be why we only hear from psychic at the beginning of a new page, for example.
After about 100-200 posts, the blog becomes huge and a dial-up connection in the foothills will likely time out and boot them off before it can be fully downloaded, or it takes sooo long to download it exceeds their attention span and they meander.
Anyone out there with dial-up that can verify that?
I am all for as many voices as possible here, especially the recently departed. For some, connecting with this blog could function as the antidote to the poison of shunning.
Shall I ask the sheik to turn the page sooner as an experiment to allow for more participation?
503
Bruce ~
It’s curious, because I am just right this very moment watching ‘El Topo’ on Youtube.
Alejandro Jodorowsky is indeed a force to not turn one’s back to consciously.
To whalerider 505,
on March 17, 2008 at 1:54 am
You are spot on about dail-up limitations and page size. The page needs to turn around 300 posts maximum. Beyond that, the audience diminishes. Unless a person has broadband access that is up to speed consistently, there is the real likelihood they cannot load the whole page, nor post to the blog, as the posting section is at the bottom.
Many people in Oregon House only have dail-up access and often not at reasonable speeds due to the rural distances to service connection points.
Some of the broader band services in the area are available via initiatives of fellowship members (like creating their own services, service hubs or service resellers that bundle bandwidth use) and it is not unheard of that exFoFers are terminated/denied service and/or have their activities monitored.
Rear View Mirror:
I was told about a food co-op in Oregon that became aware of the connection between Apollo Olive Oil and the Fellowship of Friends. They were disgusted by the story and said they would not be ordering anymore.
Vena:
Thanks for your posts. I appreciate your compassionate voice.
The reality is: money talks and bullshit walks.
The story of the Oregon Co-op not ordering Apollo products and the recent spat of salary layoffs is exactly what will have the greatest effect on those who have the power to do something to end the madness: current followers.
If enough followers leave or refuse to pay teaching payments and a negative cash flow is created and sustained, then the house of cards will fall. It is high time to drain Robert’s pool of victims! The remaining assets shall be seized or frozen by the state or creditors…and the sooner, the better. Then those who wish can petition or sue for their teaching payments to be returned, with interest.
Any of the newly liberated asking for help should be given any and all help possible. Having the ’school’ suddenly fall around your ankles could be quite a shock, but hey, so was getting a blowjob from the teacher for the first time.
May they open their eyes and hearts, close their pocketbooks and zip up their pants!
I have emailed the sheik asking him to turn the page at 300 posts to help include those souls in Oregon House or elsewhere on the planet with only dial-up. I also volunteered to email the sheik when we approach 300 posts.
That should kick things up another notch.
jack, unoanimo, thanks for the videos.
English native speakers may not be aware that lately Alejandro Jodorowsky has dwelved into shamanism and healing and become a bit of a spiritual teacher (can I ever write this word again without cringing?)
His books on tarot and “psychomagic”, a form of psychological therapy he created, have become bestsellers here in Italy, but to my knowledge they still haven’t been published in english.
Here is an excerpt from the documentary The Jodorowsky Constellation:
“It is a continuation of my artistic work, and I don’t see why an artist shouldn’t be interested in therapy. All of our problems originated from the way we were born. And the way we were born depends on the emotional relationships between our mother and father…I realized that we had a family unconscious… I am a thinking
family. My illnesses are created by my family. My behavior, the way I live, my conception of money, my emotional and sexual relationships are all created by my family. Indeed the psychological and genetic field I come from marks my whole life… If I want to understand my self, I have to understand my family tree, because I am permanently possessed, as in voodoo. Even when we cut ties with our family, we carry it. In our unconscious, the persons are always alive. The dead live with us.
“Exploring the family tree means engaging in a fierce battle with the monster, like a nightmare, so that the monster can give you the treasure. The family tree is a real nightmare where we find sadomasochism everywhere, narcissism everywhere, self-hatred everywhere. So with the excrement that is the family tree, we have to produce the treasure gold.”
and here is another link for those interested in his ideas:
http://www.forteantimes.com/features/interviews/532/alejandro_jodorowsky.html
Hello Laura ~
An addition for the readers:
“It is important to note that for a quarter of a century, Jodorowsky held classes and lectures for free, in Cafés and Universities all over the city of Paris. Typically, such courses or talks would begin on Wednesday evenings as Tarot Lessons, and would culminate in an hour long conference, also free, where at times hundreds of attendees would be treated to live demonstrations of a psychological “Arbre Généalogique” ( Tree of Genealogy ) involving volunteers from the audience.
In these conferences, Jodorowsky would pave the way to building a strong base of students of his philosophy, which deals with understanding the Unconscious as the “over-self” which is comprised of many generations of family relatives, living or deceased, acting on our own psyche, well into our adult lives, and causing our compulsions.
It is important to note that of all his work, Jodorowsky considers these activities to be the most important of his life. Though such activities only take place in the insular world of Parisian Cafés, he has devoted thousands of hours of his life to teaching and helping people “become more conscious,” as he puts it.”
____________________________________________
While the Fellowship of Friends was advocating the aborting of fetuses, aborting of females married to Robert’s interests, giving away of children and cutting off ties with their asleep and ‘dead’ family members, is is truly good to know that the truth is available for our conscience to land face first upon:
jumping off into the unknown only gets practical when you land on a cobblestone road, then ‘falling forever’ doesn’t remain a Poetic School of Relative Awakening.
The Plant Spirits will take you inside this ‘Family Tree’, into its blood, feces, birth and birth-deaths and pain that Jodorowsky speaks of: what he has done for Shamanism on the Earth is priceless and beyond words.
___________________________________
L.t.y.a.
Lauralupa (510),
This native English speaker has never heard of Alejandro Jodorowsky. I think because I dont keep up with movies. I dont remember which movie I last went to see, but I think it was one of the “star wars”.
This “psychological family connection” rings a deep bell within me.
Unoanimo (511),
No offence intended but your last paragraph for me was the best thing you have ever written. It’s one of those inner world recognitions, “you know that you know”.
Fellowship assets are now being sold off. The 100+K Mercedes is going. The tragic thing is that Robert Burton and his few remaining staunch supporters will consider that he is a persecuted martyr. His delusions of grandeur will remain unshaken and he will never realize that his own behavior precipitated the fall of the Fellowship. Talk about profound sleep.
“Talk about profound sleep.”
Can’t state it often enough. This is the irony of the Fellowship.
Robert Burton and the FOF assert that the people of the world are asleep, and that they deceive themselves by pretending to be awake.
Hmm.
I do find it interesting that the Mercedes is going. Is there another one parked in Carmel somewhere? Or in the Riviera? Or L.A.? Just asking.
Something I’ve often wondered about, partly because I’ve heard others speculate on it… Is there an offshore account? Swiss? I wonder if our Sac Bee reporter has even thought about investigating that angle on the story.
The one thing that makes me say, “No, there’s probably not an offshore account,” is that Robert Burton would probably have spent it by now.
Vena (509), That’s good news. I’m glad the Oregon co-op became aware of it.
Just a suggestion for those who happen to notice Apollo Olive Oil on the shelves… Many store owners may appreciate hearing the truth about it.
==============
Regarding Apollo Olive Oil’s home page announcement that fraud is running rampant in the Italian olive oil business… I have just one word:
hypocrite
Main Entry:
hyp·o·crite
Pronunciation:
\ˈhi-pə-ˌkrit\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English ypocrite, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritēs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai
Date:
13th century
1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings
Ok, more than one word. I do have a frendly note to our olive oil enthusiasts, many of whom I know from many years ago, and still love…
I also was a hypocrite. I also was mired in an illusion. I also believed it, and then later saw myself believing a lie.
What will it take for you?
rear view mirror:
You remind me that hindsight is always 20/20. The further you get down the FREEWAY, distancing yourself from the FOF, the more clearly you begin to see the truth.
And you are so right, that’s only going to be in the rear view mirror. You’re awesome, dude.
Thought I’d check in and say hi.
If one follows astrology there is an interesting transit happening now. Several, actually. The planet Neptune is said to influence, encourage, focus certain energies. They are of a spiritual nature – well the nature that is usually considered spiritual at least. Non dualists swim in this energy. It is unbounded, like the sea, and universal egoless compassionate. It can produce states of mind that feel at one with the universe. It is hopes and dreams, beliefs, feelings. It is not ideology per se but can be linked with it in the profound trust in the unbounded vision. Sounds nice and it is, but here on planet earth it can also lead to delusion, dissolution, denial, lying to oneself, unconscious lying in general.
Neptune takes many years to pass thru a part of the sky – or a sign. It is now in Aquarius and has been since 1998. What a disaster too. The energy of vision and delusion being filtered thru the internet and mass media in general. Here we get Iraq war, based on delusions and lies, and Bush the candidate who was a ’spiritual’ leader and is anti-science since it does not jibe with his beliefs. Often ’spiritual’ leaders have lots of Neptune – RB does, and it is the energy behind the entrenched ’students’ of his. They are devotees and refuse practical questioning, basically are anti-science. Here the beliefs are being channeled and also challenged thru public exposure in the internet (extremely Aquarian).
After the fof experience for me I started to have a taste for the delusions of neptune and have a distrust of them. I maybe go overboard. The media in general (aquarius) has been a major area of interest for me and watching it as an open channel for delusion and ideology (Pluto – another interesting planet) Obama is running as a neptunian candidate – on the ‘hopes and dreams of change and all getting along’. It seems interesting to me that many former fof members go to non-dualism and it seem like a fit despite the different external form. The essence of it is still that dream, and the oneness and the state of surpassing ego energies.
There is no jettisoning delusion – because it just creeps up on everyone. It is a blind spot which we all have because we all participate in life on earth. Neptune is very subtle. But there is a way to ADD a value of practicality. Like to have one’s unbounded states be bounded in a meditation practice.
And not to get too pie-in-the-sky, I’ll quote Jack Handey:
” I don’t think God put me on this planet to judge others. I think he put me on this planet to gather specimens and take them back to my home planet.”
Cheers ak0aka0ka! I’ve been missing your thoughtful posts and hope you stay a while…
Elena and all, here is a follow-up on the Scientology thread, the latest Anonymous press release
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5zn_npY0TOI
Not that anybody should care but… this is curious, oddly synchronistic: in a phone conversation with an old friend yesterday, he tells me that info was sent to him by another friend about Jodorowsky. Then today I find these postings here on the same rather obscure subject. This friend and I have talked about Jodorowsky films in the past but not for several years. We wondered in our conversation yesterday, if the man is still above ground… it does appear so. In the past this friend has said he thinks the film “The Holy Mountain” was adapted from Rene’ Dumal’s book — Mount Analog. I’m not so sure about that. (?) The details from the film are vague, it’s probably been 35 years since seeing The Holy Mountain, I would like to revisit it sometime — it did make a strong impression at the time, but I was so much younger then….
Laura thanks for the link.
Uno 511, good stuff! thanks for that.
Sorry Arthur
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4RK6vZ43hc
When one has been to a mountain top
One has only to come down again
So why bother in the first place?
Just this…
One climbs…
One sees…
One descends…
One sees no longer
But one has seen
There is an art of conducting oneself in the lower regions
By the memory of what one saw higher up.
– Rene Dumal – Mt. Analogue
456 Richard M re teeth and RB –
I’ve been away for several days accomplishing an interstate move, and just got caught up with blog reading. Before reading Richard M’s post, I wrote down this dream had this morning. I love synchronicity.
**************
Odd because I haven’t had a FoF dream in a couple of decades, and when I did have them, they usually didn’t include RB.
Some former members had put old videos up on a web site. A few of us were watching them. The one I was watching showed Robert in the early days . . . smiling, apparently having a good time, at ease, made before I joined. I never knew that Robert. It seemed that part of the point of showing this series of videos was to say, “See, once upon a time it was better.” It had a warm and fuzzy, golden feeling about it, but there was also a sense that it was all for show.
There was another video made more recently. Someone else commented on how much Robert’s teeth have changed over the years, and that the change in his teeth frightened them. They looked rotted and worn away around the edges. To that person, it seemed to indicate a scary level of overall deterioration going way beyond the teeth.
I didn’t look at his teeth. I already knew what I would see and didn’t want to look. I could see it in my mind’s eye, and that was enough.
ton 519
Concidentally, I found the interview I posted through this blog, where it also mentions the Daumal influence. Intriguing.
Also I didn’t know that Jodorowsky had been a student of Ichazo. So there is a loose Fourth Way connection after all… not that any of this seems that important, but it’s kinda fun to play Connect the Dots with you guys…
http://cadeveo.wordpress.com/2007/08/13/magikian-of-cinema/
The petition needs the truth from statements. It’s very hard to come out to say one was abused. Imagine if it was one of your children and you had the power to rectify it. It takes balls, but without names and statements you know it’s going to continue. And in this case there is no comfort or safety in numbers if one remains silent.
521 lauralupa
An “old” old student told me years ago that hw was sharing an apartment with Jodorwsky in Paris in the 50’s (late?) He said occasionally he was asked to leave for the evening when some friends were coming over. Apparently Ouspensky was speaking to a small group at different venues and Jodorwsky’s apartment was one of the places. It might have been true, who knows?
522 brucelevy
The “alleges” to be addressed are not only sexual exploitation, but financial exploitation. Anyone with first hand observations or knowledge might consider putting their name to a statement. My understanding is the statements will be reviewed by a lawyer to protect the contributors. Please correct me if I’m wrong, and I don’t mean with “opinions”. The law here is relatively concrete.
Thanks Laura,
They are good! They understand that it is not just the cult but the legislation what needs to be focused on.
Find myself wishing I had something to tell that could fill in some blanks and remove an ‘allegedly’ from the list, but I don’t.
I am a bit in awe of a number of you who have been doing this since the beginning or almost the beginning of this blog.
I still feel like a newcomer, so sometimes I just read and cheer you on. I will say this though:
It feels to me like there is more sharing and more vibrant life and truth here on this blog, sometimes just within the space of one or two days, than I suspect Robert Burton and the Fellowship of Friends have been able to conjure up in thirty-five years.
Bruce, thanks for sharing the story about Jodorowsky.
Some of his films are available on netflix, which is cool, because years ago they would have been extremely difficult to find for the average joe. Netflix writes about his 1973 film “Holy Mountain” …
“Avant-garde filmmaker Alejandro Jodorowsky weaves a grotesque tale rich in allegory and sacrilegious imagery as a thief (Horácio Salinas) is first crucified, then enlisted by an alchemist (Jodorowsky) to join a group of elites who seek divinity and immortality. Juan Ferrara, Adriana Page, Richard Rutowski, Valerie Jodorowsky, Zamira Saunders and Ana De Sade also star in this surreal mind trip.”
Whalerider, the same back at you.
Red Roses in Dark Oceans!
A seed
Generously watered
By you
By me
Grows large
When you see the flower
You don’t want it
But it does
A friend,
If not a lover
Water, life!
Too many kisses
A hand… out of hand
Oh joy!
You slap.
You are probably right:
Because I miss you
as if I had had you.
Words woven on imaginary paper
Threaded in invisible hearts
Where the hand lands into nothingness
Too fresh a flesh to feel the light
In this tricky game,
We enter
In and out
Where Us
You and
I,
Stand like circles within circles in the
Labyrinth of each other’s being.
Come for the tuning,
Come into the circle of pain
Fear not the pulling of harmony
Or the disharmony of tuning.
The Joy is in the music.
The trees rings and hundreds of wedding rings; differences?
_______________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=736NKsK86Uk
_______________________________________________
What is it in us that holds back forgiveness or is it deeper; are we diving rods for a more vast place where dogs bark at the perfectly dressed ’sinner’ and jumps into the lap of a nearly naked homeless person, jaundiced and drunk on the weaving in and out of life’s traffic that simply keeps coming day and night?
Or is this un-forgiveness something reflective, a mirror image suddenly successfully gotten by a certain something within all of us that dwells in reflections and not the backside of the mirror? Something that digests, though does not process the nutrients, but instead, stores them on a shelf like canned goods for an apocalypse that can only explode from the inside out and that will never knock on any external door.
The soul fled before the onslaught fed: and he lay there on the beach,
forgiven by the sand for discoloring it with god’s wine,
forgiven by the sand crabs trapped momentarily underneath his impenetrable weight and green canvas skin,
forgiven by the migrating turtle who now has to traverse this hump upon her cosmic Straight Line,
forgiven by the wind who must carry the infinite scent to the wolves, vultures, flies, beetles, opossums, centipedes, rats, crows and the domestic animals too; for they will come, after the Master’s asleep, they will also be amongst the forgiving.
There ‘he’ is, being digested in the stomachs of so many quenched aspirants of Death’s footsteps,
There ‘he’ is, a big candle cut sideways by Death’s absolute candle makers, it’s children who have walked the hallways of this earth before god’s own elevator rang ‘top floor’:
slicing ‘big candle’ to make a hundred small ‘pepperoni beacons’, alight and floating on a bright azure pond, peed gently amongst a canyon of black shale and clear crystal prisms by ‘The One’ who drained that soldier of his god-wine;
And from exactly nowhere two swans fall into this water hole and dive deep, deep, deep down into the open screaming mouth of his black and blue heart’s childhood and lay millions of phosphorescent eggs there, then disappear.
“Yes, he’s decaying,”
says the grandmother to her adopted child in a wheelchair outfitted with beach-tires…
“Yes, he did die for many things, the poetry of his defecations is complete this time around: his spirit will enter the caves between this world and the spirit realm again and exit so to live this burning desire for stepping upon vacant shores with unexploded orgasms encased in pointed, shinny gold promises of hitting the target;
yes, I recall the moment he saw himself in the newly unpacked serpentine belt of ammunition and smiled, smiled with the determination of an entire passenger ship’s worth of such spirits as these ‘bonded warrior kind’, strapping it clinking across his waist like a wedding tuxedo’s cumberbun…
Yes, my child, he got his divorce, now let’s get him pregnant with Soil’s embrace and sing to the crows and the field and the tigers a thankfulness that they left us something to send back to his mother and father, these dog tags,
yes, oh yes and they are still warm from your having hid them beneath your thigh; did you not think your thigh would not tell me they were there if I asked and you know I always ask before I know?
You little rascal, you’re always trying to hide Death from Life: do you not remember anything I’ve been trying to teach you ~
That it is Death’s simple chain that Life’s identities hang upon and the crows are constantly vibrating the rust from it with their cawing.
Let’s go and find another so we’ll not get too stuck on this one, because they’re all special only when in context to more than one.
Do you remember that night when the baby opossums hung upside down after having taken the milk partially produced through the mother having eaten the soldiers hippocampus and medulla?
How they gently sway there, their tails attached to his favorite wishing-star turned from Focus to Branching Tree Spirit, their own sweating dripping off ‘his last salts’ to the August night breeze,
evaporating his final tears as they all danced with his first love’s suicide-bride:
how she clasped their little paws tight and yearned for the deep green Kentucky grass belonging to that last picnic where he did not show up and how her god-gone heart leapt up into her throat
like a retreating cheetah into a leaning cypress with an antelope in its jaws
and how her rage and womanhood suddenly scattered and burnt the world of Hope for Another Day of Alchemy and dealt herself from a deck of cards numbering ‘one’ into the realm of right here and now:
oh, of course you remember, you’re her, I almost forgot.”
_____________________________________________
L.t.y.a.
Arthur ~ Your love is vast: I will try to make a clean place for it within myself… Thank you for your invitation to sit with you awhile and watch the waves roll over us.
511 is newly moderated.
Moving on:
NEW DISCUSSION
From now on threads will finish at 300 posts before the discussion is moved to a new one.