NEW DISCUSSION

Beautiful post. I couldn’t agree more with your red flags.

I stopped listening to that video after just a few seconds (agree with others who didn’t see anything of value there). On the other hand, that’s me. Maybe some of you have watched that video, or read something by her, and found some kernels of truth. The key for me to not “jumping out of the fire pan and into the fire” has been to:
1) Not look for “a teacher”
2) Try to be open to kernels of wisdom from people without wasting too much time and too much money in the process.

Of course, that’s my formula. Maybe y’all have a different one.

So, about this idea of finding a new “guru” or new “set of ideas,” I haven’t quite figured this one out. But I’m learning, and would like to share some thoughts on the topic. So the following are not necessarily deal breakers, but I would definitely call them red flags:

• Having a need for “a teacher,” and believing you’ve discovered one.
• When you find yourself focusing on the messenger more than the message.
• When you believe that others are lost or condemned because they don’t follow that same set of ideas.
• When someone suggests that you need to settle down to one set of ideas, and not “spend your life always looking.” Because maybe “always looking” is not so bad. Maybe it can be rewarding and transformative, and can help us attract some wonderful people into our lives. (Are we getting married or our gurus? Or are we learning from them?)
• When someone suggests dire consequences for not applying a particular system of ideas.
• When you need to join an organization.
• When you need to give up a natural part of yourself.
• When someone suggests their ideas are new, different, or original.
• When a set of ideas satisfies a desire to be different from the rest of the world.
• When someone promotes the idea that spirituality (or enlightenment, or awakening, whatever we might call it) is a finite thing that only a finite number of people can have. In other words, when the infinite and wondrous nature of the universe is ignored, and when our own wondrous and infinite nature is ignored.

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So, probably not a comprehensive list of red flags. Also, these are just mine, and I’m just sharing them here. But probably everyone has their own red flags. (For some, maybe it means forgetting the fof, forgetting the blog, and forgetting the GF site, and just getting the hell out of dodge as soon as possible. I can think of a few old friends who used that approach years ago, even before the blog and before the GF site.)

About “originality”… Sometimes I think this is a key word. We usually think it means, “I’ve created something completely different from everyone else.” But something can be original and be very similar to something created by someone else. That’s because the word “original” really means that it comes from you — it originates from within you. That fascination with creating “something different” and being someone different and looking for ideas that are different, is partly what leads us away from ourselves, and into cults.

I also find it interesting that Burton characterizes other systems as being delusional whenever they suggest being in tune with nature and the universal laws. According to Burton, his ideas don’t “flatter” people, and that’s why people leave him in droves.

(Hmm. I disagree. See the thousands of posts on this blog to understand the real reasons that people leave him.)

According to Burton, we’re supposed to be the salmon swimming up stream, going against the ray of creation, and escaping the brutal fate that awaits those who go with the flow and do not struggle. And this is a great “hook” for the Fellowship (no pun intended here), because now we can explain away ANY sort of doubts or questions we have about Burton’s actions as just being part of that noble struggle to see ourselves and work on ourselves.

Ironically, there’s some truth to that. Because a lot of the “effort” and “struggle” of being in the fof was learning to “remember ourselves,” to remember that part of “ourselves” that was lost and forgotten, and gradually became more lost and more forgotten, as we remained in the fof.

That Byron Katie video is absurd and insulting. Tells a woman traumatized by war she shouldnt be afraid? What a bunch of BS. The woman who was in the war is much more impresive than than Kaitie woman. Byron Katie sounds like shes talking to a litt;le kid. I wouldnt take a cup of free water frm her.

The language he uses reminded me of my Fourth Way reading material. It seemed to be all there.

It also seems to me that these masters and gurus have “found it” or “got it” by grace while the rest of us have to sit and wait under worse suffering than they or until the ninth lifetime.

Well, my name is arthur salvialeaf at your service. Coming to you soon. Please use cash only for the salvation of your soul.

A couple of Robert Burtons’s insightful photographs:

here’s one he gave me, via of course a boy follower, was “Robert sends you his love and wishes you to know that he’s noticed you’ve put on weight”.

The first challenge of course was to turn this in to something ‘esoteric’ I spent about a year on that.

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Anna, I remember too the inordinate amounts of time spent in my mind trying to figure out Robert Burton’s messages. Lots of imagination from my part at least, like interpreting dreams, reflections of my fears, my hopes and illusions.

Hello Traveler ~

Thank you Traveler,

I heard today (by way of a very enthusiastic acquaintance; who I hope has not seen the Youtube video yet) about her scheduled appearance in Grass Valley/Nevada City and was planning to do some research before lifting anchor on Friday… I jumped the gun on that post (If I had more time I would have written more.)… Though I’m glad it happened the way it did: good to know you’re riding shotgun and box of tacks… You saved me approximately $35 dollars and 4 hours of time I will spend elsewhere…

I’m glad because had I done the Youtube thing first I would most likely not have posted any blog-blurb; so, the way it happened you’ve saved (hopefully, at least those out of the F.O.F. that read the blog) allot of “fooling around”, though for some the seeing-is-believing-ritual is better these days for their blood… I know that many current students will be going to see her, perhaps it will be ‘good’ for them to experience something familiar outside the All Too Familiar Box, if you know what I mean (?) I watched the first minute or so and have to say that she does possess that very odd ‘quizzical modality’, a matter of fact-ness and dualistic comparative protectionism that occurs between allot of spiritual gurus and ‘the student’… Whew! Ok, well, thanks again for the cold shower… I needed it.

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L.t.y.a.

Just in case you are not aware, one of the reasons people do not use their complete name is because if your name were later looked up on the internet for a job or any other such thing, your connection here can get exposed. It seems a valid reason in the long run so if you don’t know about it you might consider using just half your name. Thank you for your courage to tell us that it’s helped.

It is a pleasure to see so much participation, thank you all for bringing your selves out. Now I can rest!

Anna, you are a gem and more like you will come hopefully. These things need to be told. Everyone will leave as soon as they understand and that is beautiful!