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the Fellowship of Friends Discussion

This discussion is about a group called the Fellowship of Friends. Click on the Comments button to join in.

From Wikipedia:

Pro-Fellowship of Friends propaganda: The Fellowship of Friends is a spiritual school based on the Fourth Way tradition, founded in 1970 by Robert Earl Burton. It is a different form of a Fourth Way school than the one presented by George Gurdjieff, Peter Ouspensky and Rodney Collin, and it currently incorporates other sources into its teaching. The organization’s stated task is to enable its members to awaken and develop a soul that can survive death and achieve immortality. This task includes preserving the highest forms of beauty, knowledge, and culture; and using this task as a vehicle for consciousness. As of 2007, the organization has approximately 2,000 members, about a third of which live around the organization’s property in Northern California. The rest of its members live in North and South America, Europe and Asia. The Fellowship of Friends is recognized by the state and federal governments as a non-profit religious organization.

Anti-Fellowship of Friends propaganda: In 1967 Robert Burton attended a meeting led by Alex Horn. Mr. Horn was a student of the Fourth Way and conducted a group based on the Gurdjieff-Ouspensky ideas. Burton devoted himself to studying the Fourth Way and to participating in Mr. Horn’s group. After eighteen months he parted from his teacher. In 1970, Robert Earl Burton founded the Fellowship of Friends. In 1971, the organization acquired 1,300 acres of land in Oregon House, California, in order to provide its members with a retreat where they could realize their principles of self-development.

Robert Burton, stating that he was receiving guidance from higher beings, is said to have predicted a world-wide depression in 1984, an earthquake which would destroy California in 1998, and a nuclear war in 2006.

Some former members have criticized Burton for alleged sexual abuse, excessive control, and brainwashing, and several of them have left the organization because of these concerns. A former member sued Robert Burton and the organization in 1996 for the same reasons. This case and another suit claiming sexual abuse were settled out of court. The Fellowship of Friends’ president stated in a newspaper article that one suit was dismissed and two others were settled by the organization’s insurance companies to save the costs of litigation.

It should be added that membership fees consist of 10% of income, two extra payments each year and payments for dinners, talks and presentations. The Fellowship of Friends is not a cheap business.

This discussion is in its 11th incarnation, previous incarnations can be found here (hosted by Animam Recro):

For part 10 click here.

For part 9 click here.

For part 8 click here.

For part 7 click here.

For part 6 click here.

For part 5 click here.

For part 4 click here.

For part 3 click here.

For part 2 click here.

For the article that I wrote so very long ago, and for the first and potentially most enlightening part of the discussion click here.

For sites in Russian and Italian, click http://fofway.narod.ru/ and http://laliberastrada.blogspot.com/ respectively.

Enjoy the discussion, be civil and polite, and above all have fun!

715 Responses

  1. on June 5, 2007 at 2:38 pm wake up little suzy wake up

    It does not matter what path you take, but it does matter if the path you are taking is something that you are believing is appropriate. Nothing is more damaging to you than to do something that you believe is wrong.

    I found this in my email today from an Abraham Workshop.


  2. on June 5, 2007 at 2:43 pm Ames Gilbert

    To Hava Nagillah (#10-527)
    You brought up the subject of prophecy. And I understand from your tone about the prophet Jonah that your are justifying Burton’s spectacular (no lesser word will do) failures at prophecy.

    Because his prophecies are central to the FOF story (whether he makes similar claims as of today or not), central to the way he used them to inculcate both fear and infatuation in his followers, Burton’s claims to be able to foretell the future led me to study prophecy in general and Burton’s being in this area in particular.

    First, let’s get this clear. Burton’s claims were literal, not metaphorical. The Wiki entries as of 2007 are lies in that they are trying to cast doubt on this, trying to muddy the waters and alter people’s clear memories. Not only that, Burton claimed that they were literal, in my hearing, and also claimed, after the failure of the depression of 1984 had failed to materialize, that he had never been wrong, again in my hearing (at a dinner in 1991). When people make affirmations of Burton’s consciousness, they are lying, because they cannot know. When people defend Burton by re-interpreting Burton’s prophecies, they are also lying, because they are trying to bring darkness to areas that were previously well–lit.

    The very basic misunderstanding that people make is this: that prophecy means to foretell the future. Sorry, Howard Carter, the future cannot be foretold, by Burton, higher forces, or even the Absolute. So, Hava Nagillah, study the prophets, and see actually what they are doing. What they are doing is telling people what is happening in the present. They are telling the truth about the present. For example, Jonah is telling the people of Nineveh the truth about their present situation. The extrapolation (quite different from prophecy) is this; if you do not change your ways, the future will be like the present. Do you see the difference, Nava Nagillah? (I’m presenting this intellectually because you are intellectually centered). If you live today in a certain state, and you do nothing to change your attitude, then tomorrow will be a repeat of today. That is not prophesying the future, it is extrapolating the present. Prophets describe both momentum and inertia. It is interesting that you use the example of Jonah and Niniveh, because right in those verses is the answer. The people of Niniveh did change their attitudes, so the truth about them changed, and so the previously inevitable consequences changed.

    If you go through the catalog of biblical prophets, you will start to see what I’m talking about. The fact that Burton misunderstands this, as you do, is very interesting to me, as is his extreme attachment to his supposed gifts in this area. It tells me something about his level of consciousness, not directly of course, but indirectly; it is one of the results of his level of being, one of his “fruits”.

    And I repeat, the prophecies are as central to the totality (time-body) of his ‘teaching’ as self-remembering. He spent (invested) at least as much of his time when I was around him over the years talking about signs and prophecies as on being present. No amount of Wiki revisionism changes the fact that he considered his prophecies literal windows into the future!

    To Light (#10-530)
    Thank you for telling us that you are a sufi (whatever that is), you are obviously proud of your “membership”. Whether a true sufi would recognize you as another is not for me to judge. Certainly your ‘act of profundity’ is a veritable island of being in a shallow sea—but which sea?

    Please, for those of us who are very slow, kindly explain your “one-way tunnel, truck coming headed this way” analogy. It’s too deep for me, so I need the message to be more literal. Precisely what are you warning us about?

    With love to you all,
    Ames


  3. “It should be added that membership fees consist of 10% of income, two extra payments each year and payments for dinners, talks and presentations. The Fellowship of Friends is not a cheap business.”

    Yes, in addition to the 10% fee, “special donations” of $255 are required each month, as well as Spring and Fall donations of $775 each, and a December donation of $100. Attending dinners, talks, and presentations usually costs a few hundred dollars each month.


  4. Thanks WakeupLilSuzy for the Abraham quote. As usual they are Ace.

    Here is a post I sent to yahoo answers today. The question had to do with the rarity of finding true love, but it actually is appropriate to this blog’s basic subject matter.

    PEPTIDES AND LOVE=
    What you say in this question is correct. Two main factors are involved. The first is that we create our reality, our life, with our thoughts. Until now we have called this the law of attraction. Earth-shaking scientific advances in neurology and quantum mechanics are in the process of experimentation as a result of theories caused by the disemnimation of the info re. the law of attraction. There is still confusion and delay in letting people know about these because it implies a large change in our worldview. Some of this is looked at and discussed in the film “What the Bleep Do We Know?” and I recommend the extended version.
    In order to love all that is required is intent. The energy involved is always present. It flows in and out unless resistance neutralizes it, so to speak. In the case of person to person application, evolution has built into the frontal cortex a decision maker apparatus. This gives humans what we call free will. So you can transmit a signal which identifies your personal likes and wants, as if it were rock&roll, but the receiver blocks it or does not capture it unless he is tuned in to the exact station (ideally). This is over-simplification but the general idea is correct.
    A second factor is rather new stuff, in a way. That is that we are made to be addicts, physically. When thoughts of want are repeated, any and all, imaginary or not, the matching receptors are created in the brain to accomodate the peptides produced. Once the receptors are in place, they start to let the body know that they need to be fed. ie. if it is the chocolate-coded receptor that is asking, you start to look for chocolate. You may go to the fridge looking for you-don’t-know-exactly-what, but you know that if you see it you know that the alarm will ring. Sometimes people will grab the donut along the way, just in case, but they will not be satisfied. No matter, the tendency for extra calories will also begin to create new receptors leading to obesity. The exact same applies to emotions or sexual pleasures, and again I am talking about specific emotions, positive or negative doesn’t matter, real or imaginary, and the same of course with the sexual or any other pleasures. A person may never have actually experienced one of those except in imagination, but he/she will after a certain number of repititions become addicted to it. Sound familiar?
    This starts to get more complicated but is still easy to understand. What happens is that these receptors can accept certain substitute peptides. Maybe the hershey’s is not exactly like the cadbury’s, but since the code is close enough, it is accepted at least temporarily. Makes sense. The same applies for the lover. Here you are right again and I have seen hundreds of such related questions on this site.
    My experiences also fit this description. Getting back now to free will, it is that each individual has very particular thoughts, memories, imaginary fantacies, and so on in which case the signal they send out to the universe is personal. When one individual, without all this information decides on his or her own that so and so is the only one, there is a problem. What if they do not match? The dreamer still gets adddicted and the result is pain and if it persists disease. There is no end to the possibilities. One lifetime heroin addict told me once, “When I find something better, I’ll switch.” He had lost everything including his family. Even his son had been robbed and killed while out looking for him on Father’s Day on Shooter’s Alley. The good news is that we are now able to understand what is going on in the world. The reason we are getting the answers is because so many are asking the questions. Thank you All. Ron or Renald


  5. “If you have not by nature a critical mind your staying here is useless.” G. I. Gurdjieff

    “If you have not by nature a critical mind your staying in the Fellowship of Friends cult is mandatory.”

    The King of Clubs is the enemy of delusion. The Fellowship of Friends is what happens when the work ideas are mixed into a crowd of people that do not understand the need to develop all the lower centers. The intellectual story of the instinctive center is an entirely necessary part of the intellectual story as a whole because it can always hear a lie. The king of clubs is the machine’s lie detector, even when the intellectual center and the emotional center are in full agreement with the statements of another it is the king of clubs that ignores all the ideas and words and looks at the body language and the radiated energy of the speaker. The king of clubs is what hears the ulterior motive behind the disingenuous outward appearance of a generous and platonic attention from someone who is in fact simply seeking to sexually gratify an obsessive appetite. The king of clubs is what directly witnesses the apparent and hidden appetites of people. When a false prophet wants your money, wants to satisfy his sexual lusts and wants to control you it is the king of clubs that recognizes the real motive in spite of the elaborate spiritual con game. When a six foot four, 200 pound son of a butcher from Arkansas tells you that the all knowing gods want you to submit to him sexually it is the king of clubs that says no. This is one reason Burton hates the king of clubs, not to mention that the king of clubs is a threat to the security of his income from people with a wrong magnetic center. People easily manipulated with extreme ideas and the distortion of useful ideas have what in the Work is known as a wrong magnetic center, they lack the common sense that comes from developing all the centers. They lack the critical mind that requires the presence of the king of clubs. The main reason Burton hates the king of clubs is because his is broken. This is a quotation from the “teacher” in the first days of the Fellowship of Friends (once posted on the internet and substantiated as circulated notes from a Burton meeting):

    Burton: This group will produce three angels, and they will be burned on the cross and will survive.

    Q. The others are the chaff?

    Burton: They move to another role, if we take Jesus’ words, “Every hair is counted.” Remember, those three I spoke of will be literally and worse burned on the cross.

    This kind of statement is predictably the kinds of perceptions that come from the mentally ill, that is people with broken centers. The “angle” comes from a man with a broken, “paranoid” king of clubs and such broken machines and their delusions of grandeur are commonly registered in medical journals. Many of these psychologically crippled people even share the same delusions, so that professionals hear the same beliefs from various individuals. Broken brains are predictable. Burton hates the king of clubs because his broken king of clubs keeps telling him that bad things are going to happen, he even calls these distorted ‘I’s from the “adversary” prophesies. Burton was distorted and ruined right from the beginning of his career as a pawn of B influences. This is where your “teacher” received instructions on how to manipulate and misuse people for his own gain:

    http://www.davearcher.com/alex.html

    complete_attention@yahoo.com


  6. on June 5, 2007 at 5:29 pm Long Ago Member

    Anyone interested in communicating a balanced description of the Fellowship of Friends for people looking into esoteric schools, please check out the FOF Wikipedia site.

    I happened upon the FOF Wikipedia site a couple of weeks ago and have been following the FOF Wikipedia disputes. (If anyone is interested, select the Discussion Tab at the top of the FOF Wikipedia page and then start at the bottom of the page, the last/most recent, discussion entry working your way up the page. )

    The FOF Wikipedia site has been reduced in size which is a good thing. Initially, it mirrored the FOF official site. Lately, it has been shredded and the one remaining sentence on school payments has been removed. There is no mention of having to leave the school if you cannot make the payments or cannot follow new school rules. Also, there is no mention of shunning students who have left the school.

    I haven’t checked the Wikipedia sites for the Mormons or the Amish to see if they reference how former members are treated but I believe that the Fellowship of Friends Wikipedia site should include this information. The Fellowship has nothing to hide regarding its treatment of former members. It is what it is and inclusion in the FOF Wikipedia site would be honest.


  7. on June 5, 2007 at 5:43 pm Cake please

    10/522 arthur
    Margaret was right. I did come back from where I started and became a liar. A big one. Robert Burton was also right, in my case, “those who leave the school go back to a lower state than where they started”

    Dear arthur

    Hope we caught you on a down day. Don’t buy into it. Not a word. Not a word.

    There is no going back, no descent into hell. Only forward or “now ward” for many.

    You have revealed your compassion.

    Please do not see that as something “lower” even if what you see is not an alchemical match to FOF protocol.

    We have been striated and gyrated into thinking there is only one way of being, thinking, doing. In fact we have been, in reverence to, or perhaps, left of current modes, mummified. Stupefied.

    Wish you could be here. Electrified our little sleepy hollow, Oregon House. Not by the believers. But by the ejected, the dejected and all those backing out slowly. Asking the question. What now?

    Answering, so much so much.

    Joy to all
    Cake


  8. To Hava Nagillah. (528)
    Maybe we have reached the point in which we need to discuss our own machine as well as others so that we can begin to understand where first line is keeping us from developing second and third line.

    A man that in his first line uses the sex center only for physical sattisfaction, develops in himself a tendency to withdraw his emotional and intellectual center from the intercourse. This is then expressed in Robert’s lack of emotional commitment in his second line in his inability to establish a stable relationship with a man and in the relationships conditioned by his position of authority in which he is above the rest. His inability to treat others as equals is an aspect of the withdrawal of his emotional center in his second line, no matter how much he theorizes about the king of hearts. I still haven’t heard anyone say Robert is his friend no matter how much I’ve questioned it here. The people I have seen close to him for years have not been able to confirm that he has unconditional love for any one of them. The use and discard pattern is what prevails
    Robert’s neglect of emotional commitment to another human being,(first line) reflects on his equally emotional neglect of students (second line) also when he cannot address them directly even in small dinners, and his equally substantial neglect of humanity as a whole (third line) who for him are nothing but the six billion dead people on the planet.

    In Girard’s play we have a man that got used to connecting to women through a screen for forty years, watching porno, that is, who connects to women only as pleasure, sex objects, (first line), who then has tremendous difficulty in bringing forth his emotional and intellectual centres into his marriages (second line) and like Robert, Girard has tremendous difficulty in having simple, open, spontaneous interactions with people in general when he is not performing (second line). Girard’s third line is equally adverse to the rest of humanity as people he has no interest in, who are simply the many ‘I’s. Jokingly but very negative in traffic, he’ll refer to them as “the idiots on my road.”

    They both justify all this stiffness, fear, inner considering towards other students and people, by saying that they are “acting intentionally,” That they do not have “time” (which only really matters to the instinctive center) for interactions without an agenda although they would rather call it, without an aim. They have to have an aim because they have forsaken the aim of simply being one with the other. The other has become an object separate from them that gives them pleasure or money, a “machine without a personal life” a human being that can be treated as an object.

    Both of them have the aim to satisfy their unemotional sexual life and unconditionally support the Fellowship of Friends at the cost of people that they cannot humanly interact with unless they are “performing” to them.
    “Performing” is something that is learnt. Like in any actor the emotional center needs to be withdrawn to not allow the individual to reveal himself more than the role that he is trying to portray. Why do you think Robert and Girard can only “perform” conscious roles and show such dissonant behavior when they are not performing? Or have you not seen how Robert runs away from people so as not to be confronted individually and Girard cannot even look at people’s eyes when students greet him lovingly unless they are young women?

    Our intimate relation with our selves, as much as our personal relations with others and our social behavior with the world at large, are all the expression of our consciousness. They are first, second and third line “made flesh,” so to speak. The harmony between them is where our level of being is. Where there is no harmony, there still needs to be work on consciousness.

    The tremendous error of Robert Burton’s teaching is precisely in the fact that he became fixed in the idea of self remembering as his only effort and that of his students and was unable to move ahead with it to second and third line, both in himself and in his school.

    He was unable to refrain his own lust, establish an intimate relation with another human being or hold a healthy view of humanity in the third line. He idealized the second line with a “friendship” that never actualized itself, for himself or the school, which only developed relations of authority in the official channels of participation and a third line that developed a general negative attitude towards life people and exstudents, but became “idealized” into an exploration of former conscious schools adapted to his fixed idea of presence, orchestrated practically mainly by Asaf’s research with other students because Robert no longer has the intellectual or conscious inspiration needed to develop a practical system. He has always kept the grip on other teachings because he was unable to fly himself. He is having to look backwards at schools because he does not know how to move forward.

    He is having to steal bits and pieces from other teachings without giving them enough credit so that he doesn’t loose students to them. This was probably also the case when he stopped teaching and allowed for Girard and other students to take the reigns of the teaching. After realizing that the school continued to move with the indoctrination Girard held it with, he had little effort to make to continue the game.

    Neither Robert nor Girard have been able to move away from their instinctive center in themselves or in the Fellowship of Friends. As we analyse Girard’s indoctrination we will consistently find that he supports Robert’s teaching by separating consciousness from functions and hence, not having to respond for his own or Roberts first line or sexual addictions and reaffirming an idealized state oblivious of practical life, which is condemmed as the instinctive center, the machine, or influence A.
    Interestingly, influence A became everything personal the students had to give up, but there was never a question of why Robert did not give up his own influence A or personal life and on the contrary, fully adapted it to the work and the school, making every student support it totally. We are two thousand people supporting one man’s greed.

    What I am posing here and have been from the beginning, is that Robert’s and Girard’s personal damages, habits or behavior are damaging student’s integrity, consciousness, “being” in as much as what is refrained from students is precisely the expression of their capacity to involve their thinking and emotional center in their work on developing consciousness. Their dignity, their being.

    The emotional and intellectual center have been replaced by an indoctrination on what students should read, think and feel and the instinctive center has been condemmed to support the fellowship without participating in what is done with the money they invest. All this separations of the centers from the I do not strengthen but weaken consciousness. It is not work on non identification what is being practiced, it is dismemberment. Work on non identification is the presence of consciousness in the functions not the absence of it.

    A student is nothing but a nobody who can be asked to leave, any time. No one has a say on anything intellectual, emotional or instinctive about how things are handled in the Fellowship of Friends except Robert or actually a very developed inner circle that is looking more and more like the last chinese emperors court who were the ones who handled everything to their advantage at the people’s cost. Like the emperor, Robert should be sent to work in the gardens with due consideration for his age.

    Consciousness is not just a state. It is a PRACTICAL expression of the highest amongst human beings and the Fellowship has become a living stage for the most base expressions. How can it not be harmful to student’s integrity?


  9. KathrynF Says:

    #507/10

    “Re: Feathered Serpent, The Dragon, Divine Chi, Inner Lightening, Kundalini Energy, Cosmic Consciousness, Higher States…

    “For all his faults, Robert could dominate his students into sublime awareness, while herding us away from state-trampling trances, arguably by replacing them with higher ones. From my perspective, every note in the crystalline continuum of the Now surrounding him resonated with celestial harmony. In his presence I often felt like a beggar, a scavenger, feeding on the crumbs dropped from the feast of his being by which he fed his gods, savoring the small ambrosial energy morsels molted by him: Robert, the feathered serpent.”

    The “up” side of bi-polar disorder is probably very exciting.

    “Is depression “frozen rage”? Freezing in our tracks — refusing to change — arrests those nagging fluctuations, but it’s just another trap.

    “Happy today – you are on the crest between two sorrows. Incessantly tossed by waves from all directions, remember that “The Now” is continuously-temporary. Caught in a trough of sadness, remember: you are merely between peaks of bliss…”

    The “down” side is probably not as inspiring.


  10. on June 5, 2007 at 9:53 pm Breathing Again

    Folks

    From previous post (4/65) –

    “Contributors try variously to classify the content of the blog now inside ‘work’ language, trying to photograph negativity, now citing failure of others to ‘move on’, now attempting to stamp out the sometimes messy and ugly stories, now firing feeble spiteful responses with no appreciation for context. It is what it is and is not under fellowship laws, and hardly under any laws of politeness or order. Ask yourself, what brought this blog into being? Why has it gained such momentum? Of course within it’s pages is that which is reactive, critical, and negative… but look deeper at the forces involved.”

    Many contributors have since alluded to the deeper forces that keep this blog growing, and ultimately one sees that the nature of fellowship itself is at the root. Unconvinced by traditional rhetoric, many of us have extended the discussion – and are asking questions – in forums outside the group.

    As defenders of the FOF faith, we will attempt to see the blog variously as crime, negativity, a waste of precious time, and so forth. These descriptors are from a belief system that resolves contradictions by using formulations that originate from within the group itself. What the blog has introduced is the possibility for arguments originating from outside, providing a much widened set of parameters that subject the group to a more far reaching set of checks and balances. As a very long-time member I would say don’t believe everything you read here. Believe about 80% of it. That’s plenty to get the idea.

    We’ve been trained for years “look here, don’t look there”, and from inside the box, this idea is reasonable. Unfortunately the leader – and by extension the group – has found every possible way in which to take a simple work idea that might have a useful context within the work of an individual, and re-apply it to external phenomena and behavior of the group, tightly sealing the box against all interrogation. As evidenced within this blog, the FOF methods for keeping the box sealed go well beyond group belief, but those beliefs – once entrenched in the individual psychology – are far and away the most reliable way of maintaining support.

    The concept that we are “luckier than everyone” is a signature that has been thoroughly documented by modern psychology for over a hundred years. Not surprisingly many of us have managed to ignore or selectively interpret that signature, for all our years as members.


  11. on June 5, 2007 at 10:08 pm Veronicapoe

    For those interested, The Canons of the Fellowship of Friends, January 1, 1986, are now available online:

    http://www.archive.org/details/TheEsotericHistoryArchive_465


  12. In response to the King of Clubs 10 # 531. I remember it clearly. “Homosexuality is the apex of vanity” I want to give credit to where it is due but I cannot remember the source other than it came from within the Fellowship of Friends.


  13. Thank you Whalerider, Veronicapoe and the King of Clubs for your posts.

    To Hava Nagillah, Traveller, Beyond and whoever else is bothered by my expressing my suffering on this blog and stating that the whole community is responsible not only for my suffering but each other’s suffering. It does not bother me that you feel so satisfied, why does it bother you that I don’t?

    I have no shame in moaning a lot about the fact that I was Girard’s sexual object as much as any of Robert’s boys is. The fact that I put myself, set myself up for that position is my responsibility and I will deal with it in due time. I will certainly not blame myself for having wanted to live a decent marriage in a conscious school. At the same time, it is not that Girard and I did not love each other or at least did not try to. But the intention is as far from reality as Robert is from consciousness. I do not blame anyone for being sleep, I question and expose them for saying that they are awake.

    I am equally not ashamed by saying that the Fellowship of Friends is a foul set up to exploit fools, and that I am horrified at the length of time that they managed to fool me.

    It is not that I have not learned much and do not hold precious my understandings now, of what consciousness is NOT, but I was offered a conscious school with a conscious teacher and it is not, so I was lied to and deceived. The subtlety of the excuses do not matter and are not enough to simply accept that this lie continue to exist when I have seen the deepness of the harm that it has done to Girard , Robert and the rest of us. Many of you might continue to say, let it be, but I will say that you are snoring in deep sleep and challenge you everywhere I can. Maybe people matter to me just a little more than they matter to you.

    While I am willing to feel compassion for the collective sleep of our past, I have none for the continued sleep into the future. We know too much now to keep supporting this school. It needs to be examined thoroughly and that is what I intend to continue doing. I do not know how to get any money back as much as I think I deserve it, nor do I wish to put anyone in jail, or ruin any one’s possibilities, but if this deep questioning frees a few from their own sleep, so that they can recover the tremendous loss of integrity that we have all suffered, Girard as much as Robert, I will feel much joy.

    If nothing happens but a few potential students find these writings and don’t join, I will be equally pleased.

    I have nothing but words to question the school with. I will use no other force. That is a lawful force that I have a right to use, just as the fellowship used it against me to indoctrinate me.

    If I have moaned and cried much in front of you, that too does not shame me. You are the community that I have been paying to belong to for seventeen years. You might want only my money and my beauty, my transformed suffering, my love but you did not give only that to me, you also gave me this horror that I am returning. If I am no better after all these years, you have as much to account for as I do. The mentality behind those expectations is one that hasn’t yet understood that we are all part of one and the same play, that the world outside affects one as much as the world coming from within. The individualism of the American mentality that is ashamed of seeing people suffering is part of its greatest limitation. That is why anyone can abuse others for so long without being opposed. Since it thinks each one has to do everything for himself, it cannot conceive community.

    Some say it takes two years to heal from the experience of being in a cult. Some are still trying to heal after twenty two years. I am slowly healing and will stop moaning as soon as I can.

    To Hava Nagillah,

    I have much exposed myself publicly and have no fear of continuing to do so. I think hiding our sexuality and not talking about it is one of the reasons why Robert went unexamined for so many years. I do not think you have any interest in my sexuality but if you were willing to work on incorporating it into serious work on one self, I would be happy to participate in that discussion. Only as a discussion. Here, I understand, The Fellowship of Friends is the issue. If what you’re looking for are my faults since you have certainly not addressed any of my qualities, I can guarantee that I have plenty. I am not a conscious being but I am also not posing as one and charging people to support me.


  14. on June 5, 2007 at 10:22 pm Joe Average

    Students speak of lifting the veil of imagination to reach presence. Others say that presence is perpetually available and cannot be lost, but can be veiled by identification with the ego. What is the difference? Only the FOF sense of relentless efforting and a very personal identity implied in its terminology and goals.
    It seems that it is Robert Burton’s need to see himself as a messiah, as a very definitely separate individual who will retain that individuality through all eternity that spoils all the interpretations of the Sufis, Gnostics, Buddha, Shankara, Milarepa etc. The total dissolution of individual identity that is implied again and again in nearly all of the contemplative traditions within the world’s religions cannot be made to co-exist entirely with such an orientation of individuality, no matter how much Robert homogenates, bleaches and edits their writings into effortlessly digestible sound bites. And so now roughly 1700 mostly sincere students struggle daily to perform the truly impossible: to simultaneously abandon “all I’s”, all concepts, yet retain an imaginary concept of individuality: to invest their identity stepwise in 6 terse commands from a purely conceptual separate steward to a purely conceptual lower self, then…..? A leap into the “four wordless breaths” which promise the possibility of a timeless, wordless existence, but which, they are told, is a personal reward from discrete, discarnate immortal individuals to their unique, individual existence and helps make that individuality immortal. Sort of like chaining 6 cannonballs to your legs and then jumping into the ocean to experience weightlessness.

    It does not seem that all that much has changed in the experience of the Fellowship of Friends over the years. Robert Burton has always had parts of his psychology that genuinely wish to honour evolution, his own and that of his students. He has also had, from the inception, very major problems with accepting himself and his past that have resulted in deception, obsession and megalomania.
    The patchwork system of ideas, primarily taken from Ouspensky and Collin served well in studying human psychology. The tricks of the guru trade taken from Alex Horn helped build social and power structures. The conflicts created by Burton’s deceptions served to disrupt more subtle patterns of identification, such as identification with justice and logic. Burton’s vision of himself as a benign and loving person softened the edges of his rampant greed, in public at least, and helped create an atmosphere of external beauty. The “system” as Burton presented it was largely accidental in its origin, confused and creative in its application. Within the mosaic of the organization, very different goals and possibilities discordantly co-existed, both among the various students and within the psychology of their teacher. What made the Fellowship a place of spiritual growth was never its “teacher”, nor its power structures, nor any “higher influences”, nor even the core philosophies and techniques. When it worked, it worked by mutual consent and students found fulfilment in consensual validation and in the synergy of their explorations. A large group of people agreed to experiment together toward an ill-defined aim that seemed better than what mainstream life experiences seemed to offer. The external form allowed that mutual experiment to blossom. As long as students were sincere and open, personal growth and discovery were possible. Essentially the Fellowship was only a place where people occasionally gave each other permission to exist for reasons of spiritual growth. The sincerity of its students was always its greatest strength. The fact that its head, as passionate in his darkness as in his light, created an atmosphere of such relentless deception and predation as to eventually force all sincere students who looked it full in the face to leave, was always its greatest weakness.
    Understanding this need not be depressing or frightening, but empowering. If it was your sincere wish to grow and experience truth that created the Fellowship, then that cannot be taken from you. You cannot be “released” from that by others, you will not be punished on any plane of reality other than within your own concepts, you cannot “lose the School”. If you still have that wish, you take it with you wherever and however you experience your life. If you no longer have that wish, well, $6000 to $20,000 a year in dues and side costs for a social club seems a bit steep, so please enjoy yourself.


  15. #525 Feathered Boa

    Ironically, It was your attention he grabbed.


  16. #530 Light

    You mention Unoanimo and WhaleRider in your post. Two beings you barely hold a candle to.


  17. To Sheik:

    Why do you only have links to the websites that are criticizing FOF and do not include links that have a different point of view.
    Why not include http://www.gurdjieff-ouspensky-centers.org/ as well?
    Or you want only one side of this coin to be seen?

    To Traveler #517:

    Nice post.

    You wrote:”You see, to me this blog is like the second line we never had while in the school, because we could not share observations about our relationship to the school. Such conversations were always predictable: if you had any negative perceptions or doubts about Robert and his teaching, it was the Enemy that was tempting you from the true path.”

    Maybe things had changed from the time you were in FOF, or maybe I had more luck, but if I had a concern about Robert or his teachings I was able to find a friend I could trust, or someone with a higher understanding of things, from books or through my own effort, and resolve the issue.
    I do not say it always worked, or it will work for everyone. Just sharing my experience.
    If you have the right attitude, which is, as you say “finding ways to move forward”, and if the aim is to understand ones own psychology in a particular time in ones life, to learn from past experience, and to make another step forward to the freedom from sleep (whatever one calls it), then, with this attitude, one can gain something. It is a very narrow path, and it is easy to fall into judgment and self pity, or anger and negativity. But if one is able to hold ones View, then it will be productive.

    To Alice in W #519:

    You wrote “Your post 514 is simply full of yes/no, either/or, black&white …are there only two?”

    We live in a dualistic world. Otherwise there is only Beyond :-)

    In Wonderland, you know, there was the White Queen and the Red Queen.
    And there was Alice which represents the Beyond.

    Dualism can be seen in two ways – as opposition (Devil against God) or coexistence, (Yin and Yang) and then you have a third element – DAO, which is the same a Beyond. So, I prefer the latter one.

    So, it seems that I have a pretty similar way of seeing things.

    We can talk about different colors and shades of gray, but in a place like this blog, I find it not practical. Just think of how are you going to verify that Pink that someone describes is of the same hue and saturation. And maybe it is not Pick at all? Maybe they have all the colors mixed up and are talking about Blue. This is the problem of calibration, and I did not find any tools for this on the entire blog. So, stick with black and white, your life will be a little easier. Because there is a chance that for someone your white will look like black, and their black looks like white to you.

    From you again:” You sound like you are saying “they did this to me, they are a blog and we are its victims!!””

    Does not sound like that to me. But surely could be true for some other Fellowship members, and non members as well. And I invite everybody to re-examine their attitude.
    My motivation is to bring a higher view to this whole thing. And I find it easier to achieve if one is Alice, and not one of the characters from the Wonderland. Because Alice has a choice and other characters do not. Even the Queen of Hearts, which seems to be the most powerful.

    Regarding conscience. I am not an expert on this matter.
    I do believe that Ouspensky said, that conscience can only be experienced in the Third state. And I do not believe very much in “human” conscience. These are just two completely different things. I experience conscience as a deep understanding that all human beings are suffering because they are asleep. It is a Buddhist way to see this. But this is how I understand this.

    To WhaleRider #529:

    You wrote: “‘Victim psychology’ is keeping silent, remaining depressed, identified, and stuck blaming oneself.”

    ‘Victim psychology’ only means that you see the world through the lens of blame and/or guilt. Guilt is passive and blame is active. Both are representations of ‘Victim psychology’.

    From you: “Releasing and expressing negative feelings without identification is taking responsibility for oneself (and community) instead of letting them fester inside and turning into an ongoing negative, irritable emotional mood.”

    This is a tricky thing to do. I sense a lot of Righteousnesses in this. And Holy War type of approach. But, maybe you mean something else.
    If you think you can hold “without identification” part, you may achieve something good. But, “Releasing and expressing” are two different things in my opinion.

    From you: “Warning others in a public way about potential spiritual pitfalls (such as sexual predators masquerading as conscious beings) is not only paying forward some good karma, but also a way to transcend victimization.”

    This one is hard to explain, but one part of this is based on the idea that people should not have a lot of sex if they want to (surely not by hurting other people), and morality prohibits this kind of misbehavior. And second one is based on the idea that a teacher or a conscious being has no rights for human desires (again, not through hurting other people). If one has experienced love and consciousness through having sex with the teacher, and even if the teacher has sex with many other people, then I see nothing wrong with this.
    We put too much attention on the subject of sex. Because it is taboo in many puritan countries. Many people lack a decent sexual education, and are afraid of anything “abnormal”. I think living in the darkness of illiteracy is creating ones own “sexual predator”.
    But you may thing differently and I respect that.

    From you: “This statement applies to a meditation practice, not to the practice of chopping wood and carrying water!!!!”

    Oh yes, it does apply to all experiences of our life. If you think of meditation as separate from the rest of your activity, you missed the whole meaning of spiritual development. You have to bring your practice to all circumstances of your life!

    You wrote: “‘Beyond’ sounds fairly idealistic and narcissistic to me.”

    Here is advice from you to you: “learn to respect another person’s process as different from you own”.

    And in any case, we are not discussing our nicknames do we?

    You again: “…learn to respect another person’s process as different from you own”.

    I very well understand that other people have different experiences. It does not implies that I have to agree with them. And wise versa, if I do not agree with someone it does not mean that I disrespect them.

    And for all your sarcastic compliments, I forgive you.

    To Light #530:

    I love this story. Thanks for sharing it.

    To Across the River #533:

    From you: “Perhaps you have never experienced the struggle to regain a sense of reality after the shock of betrayal…”

    Well, I had many such experiences, and at the certain point, after another period of hell, I realized, nobody was betraying me.
    Most of the situations were created by me, whether through identification, confusion, misunderstanding, ignorance or stupidity. And I am sincere. I truly believe that.

    And if this is the place you are coming from, if you feel betrayed, then everything you write is painted in the same color.

    From you:”The blog simply came along and opened a venue not available before, and because of the space the experience takes in one’s life, many found they still have angles about it to share. Does that make sense to you?”

    Right, considering the amount of angles given here (about 4000), this “old well forgotten thing” takes a big place in lives of so many posters.
    Does not seem like people came to peace with their old devils, and it does not seem like they did resolve their negativity and resentment.
    So, “Get a life” did not happen.

    Regarding your question about taking a side.
    It seems that you think that taking a side will solve all the problems.
    But it will only put you under a limitation of that side.
    Besides, it lacks psychological depth.
    Taking side, for me at least, means being on the side of either God or Devil.
    I quit this kind of philosophy.
    Being beyond means include both sides and see their limitations.
    It is not Christian or any dualistic religions view. It is Taoist, Buddhist, Advaita and many other that I tend to prefer (Forth Way included).

    So, to answer your question, if I understand it correctly, I will take a side only if I would become asleep and identified.
    And since I am not man #11, as someone suggested, I do lean back and forth.
    But we do not discuss that here, right?
    Very few are interested in real experiences of Higher States of consciousness and the struggle of achieving them.
    Most are preoccupied with illusory experiences of resentment and betrayal.
    And this is just the way things are on planet Earth. And this blog is just a small representation of this life. Unfortunately, not the most conscious part.

    I will finish here. And will not post anymore.
    There are more important things to do.
    Wishing all the best to everybody.

    ————————————

    I am on neither side.
    I am Beyond,
    and I keep my place.


  18. This recent note from “my buddy” Al Gore, demonstrates the problems facing the Fellowship of Friends membership are not unique:

    “In the months following the release of An Inconvenient Truth, I began to focus on why our democracy has been so slow to deal with the climate crisis. The unwillingness to solve this problem is not only the result of a lack of political will, but it has also been caused by the emergence of a new political environment dangerously hostile to reason, knowledge, and facts. In the long-term, this poses a threat to the very basis of American democracy: the ability of a well-informed citizenry to use the rule of reason to hold government accountable.”


  19. To Elena who wrote: ” I still haven’t heard anyone say Robert is his friend no matter how much I’ve questioned it here. ”

    You have been too busy listening to your own words. I am Robert’s friend and I am your friend as well, if you could only have ears to hear.

    Siddiq


  20. Sheik– My computer does like this new format. When I use the Explorer browser I can only

    Sheik, My computer does not like the new format. When I use the Explorer browser I can only read every other comment. When I use Netscape the “leave a comment” function does not work (I never tried to leave a comment on the old format). I realize part of the problem is that my old iMac is out-of-date, but it handled the old format fine. Anyone else having problems?


  21. Beyond, you are funny, I mean really. I am glad you found “more important things to do”. You know, Girard did too, in an earlier post. Are you doing the same “important things” I wonder? Like… what? Do you mind sharing? And how do you distinguish between importance of things? ;)

    You see, I spent so much time doing various stuff I thought was so important… And now it doesn’t seem important at all… How the heck do we know?

    This blog fully represents life as much as anything else. Life is the same everywhere. And there is as much consciousness here as it is anywhere else in life.
    Mental discriminating and dividing only leads to suffering, hatred and negativity. I only wish you to actually BE on neither side… Like when there are no sides to be seen… Because there are no “sides” in reality, just life, as is, now. No need to be “beyond” or “above”, just be where you are and enjoy.

    And here is a warmest virtual HUG to you!


  22. Before the blog fades away I would like to hear from “prior young worker” and “onthefieldofmars” and especially anyone who is within a reasonable driving distance of Detroit and might consider getting together. Please contact me at: rdvat at sbcglobal dot com
    I enjoyed the photos. Thanks for sharing them.

    Ralph H.


  23. “Dear, I love you as long as you pay me money,
    if you stop doing so you be on a decending octave.”

    “Oh sir, if you say that true than it must be true,
    and I better pay you quick.”

    “Yes dear, you will save your soul by doing so.”

    “Thank you sir, I will pay and stop thinking for
    myself, that are just dumb I’s anyway.”

    “Yes dear, and don’t you forget this,
    as long as you pay me you are wonderfull
    and you are one of the few lucky ones.”

    “Thank you sir for sowing me the light.”


  24. Beyond wrote: “We live in a dualistic world. Otherwise there is only Beyond :-)
    In Wonderland, you know, there was the White Queen and the Red Queen.
    And there was Alice which represents the Beyond.”

    Thank you for your response! And, actually, Alice was just another character in that play…not much “choice” there…. It was Lewis Carol who was the ‘beyond’ – or was it the guy who played ‘lewis carol’ (can’t remember his name at the moment)? Lewis Carol managed to create a very colorful piece of literature, much expanded from the dualistic black and white.

    I don’t mind someone trying to “raise the level” of the blog and I hope you will reconsider your intention to not post – you would be missed. You said:

    “Regarding conscience. I am not an expert on this matter.
    I do believe that Ouspensky said, that conscience can only be experienced in the Third state. And I do not believe very much in “human” conscience. These are just two completely different things. I experience conscience as a deep understanding that all human beings are suffering because they are asleep. It is a Buddhist way to see this. But this is how I understand this.”

    Not sure what you mean by the last part of your paragraph, but what is wrong with “human”?? To be deeply and sincerely human is a great achievement! Why do you assume the ‘third state’ is not human?? To treat each other with humanity and to explore our inner humanity is not so bad…. Why do you not “BELIEVE” in that? If we are trying to get to some sort of consciousness that is not human we are essentially trying to escape and that is a “wrong triad”, as the work language goes. Escape is not the answer, it is the going into the depth that really works….going down the rabbit hole.


  25. Beyond…You know what, you’re a legend in your own mind. And your airy fairy shit is starting to really bug me. Give it a rest.


  26. on June 6, 2007 at 5:16 am Another Name

    Dear All,

    Have a laugh.

    If the predictions were to be taken symbolically, maybe the skirt exercise is symbolically?
    Maybe the teaching payments are to be taken symbolically —-Try it out, nice experiment.
    Maybe the 20 or more generators rented in 1998, costing thousands of dollars were to be taken symbolically?
    Maybe the wit exercise is symbolically…hurray we can have fun again and laugh at the Apollo d’Oro.
    Maybe the- not- talking- to- ex students exercise has to be taken symbolically, yahooo…

    Was I mislead…all these years? Wearing skirts, and ties and throwing out my jeans. Paying all that money? Poor center directors who got all these people in the fellowship of friends and finally many of them in Oregon House. Do you have sleep less- nights, is your conscience keeping you awake?

    Sorry for all who got others in the fellowship of friends and sorry for all teachers in the fellow ship of friends who were not able to teach clearly…who were not able to communicate the symbolical.

    So much symbolically…misunderstood and so much hurt, so much grief.
    Who said it was easy to leave. Leaving in this sense is grieving, mourning, giving up illusions, part of dying. It hurts. Maybe not the spirit. The spirits uses the body for that expression. It HURTS, hurts to start all over and leaving many people behind.
    O I forgot it was all mend to be symbolically.
    Pfff what a bad dream.

    Love to all of you.


  27. Joe Average: Excellent post! Thanks for that!

    Beyond:
    “‘Victim psychology’ only means that you see the world through the lens of blame and/or guilt. Guilt is passive and blame is active. Both are representations of ‘Victim psychology’.”

    Again you do not speak from your being, but from your intellectual constructs. This blog is dedicated to one subject and anyone who offers criticism about this one subject you assume is seeing the whole WORLD through a particular lens??? You lack proper scale and relativity in your thinking. Cite the post that claims the FOF is to blame for all their problems then you can talk.

    “(Releasing and expressing negative emotions) this is a tricky thing to do. If you think you can hold “without identification” part, you may achieve something good. But, ‘Releasing and expressing’ are two different things in my opinion.”

    You are right. It is advanced work, not for wimps. You can release the negative emotions by expressing them without identification. If you identify with them, they return. But first you must realize that the non-expression of negative emotions is the FOF’s main indoctrination technique. The military uses this same technique in their “code of conduct” to keep everyone in line. Hierarchies are kept in place when subordinates are not allowed to question superiors.

    “If one has experienced love and consciousness through having sex with the teacher, and even if the teacher has sex with many other people, then I see nothing wrong with this.”

    That’s a big ‘if’. One would have to grasp love and consciousness first, which is an even bigger step. Sex is the easy part. Again you make sweeping statements without seeing the truth. Robert’s sexual encounters are not between equals, and for many years not with people whom might naturally gravitate toward homosexuality. Is that love? Or sex with minors, is that consciousness as well?

    “‘Beyond’ sounds fairly idealistic and narcissistic to me.”

    Hey, if the shoe fits…if you understood the nature of narcissism; you would understand what I mean.

    “Oh yes, it does apply to all experiences of our life. If you think of meditation as separate from the rest of your activity, you missed the whole meaning of spiritual development. You have to bring your practice to all circumstances of your life!”

    I meditate for insights and emotional processing. Once that is accomplished I chop wood and carry water with a quiet and attentive mind. Sure you can meditate on your belly button all you want. If you don’t make meditation and life separate, you become a stupid saint and trip on your robe. I practice conscious living in all circumstances in my life. How about you? Or pray tell, what is the ‘whole meaning of spiritual development’, that I am missing?

    “…if I do not agree with someone it does not mean that I disrespect them.”

    You disrespect someone else’s process by making generalized assumptions about them. Case in point:

    “Very few are interested in real experiences of Higher States of consciousness and the struggle of achieving them. Most are preoccupied with illusory experiences of resentment and betrayal. And this is just the way things are on planet Earth. And this blog is just a small representation of this life. Unfortunately, not the most conscious part.”

    Dude, the way you are headed, there is more consciousness represented in this blog than you will have in your entire life.

    WhaleRider
    1979-85


  28. on June 6, 2007 at 6:00 am Skeptical Optimist

    Sheik: Thanks for your continued support. 2 questions on the new format:
    1. I miss the message numbers, and it seemed that almost everyone used them. Any way to get them back?
    2. Nothing about taste, but I was surprised at your theme, not previously having any linkage between a color swatch book and anything remotely connected to your various blogs. Any response appreciated.

    JoelF


  29. on June 6, 2007 at 6:05 am In Memoriam

    Dear Friends,

    At the Memorial Day reunion, a little remembrance altar was set up to honor the memory of friends who had been in the Fellowship of Friends, for however long or short a time, and who had passed away. Several of us put together a list of all of those that we could remember, but memory being imperfect, we’re certain that we are missing names. I was recently saddened to have had to add Dorothy Beaulieu’s name to the list.

    Our list is posted below, and we would like to ask that, if you know of anyone who should be remembered and has been omitted, please post their name to this discussion. If we’ve misspelled any names, please let us know that, too.

    With gratitude,

    JonathanF.

    “For some we loved, the loveliest and the best
    That from his Vintage rolling Time hath prest,
    Have drunk their Cup a Round or two before,
    And one by one crept silently to rest.”

    +——————–+

    In Memoriam

    Dorothy Beaulieu (Fielding)
    Kimo Beech
    Ilan Beth
    Christopher Billings
    Don Birrell
    Doris Birrell
    Peter Bishop
    Charles Boetschi
    Diana Bolton
    Darryl Bowden
    William Burns
    Robert Calvillo
    Roger Cavanna
    Kenneth Clelland
    Renato Confalonieri
    Ronald Coyle
    Stephen Detmold
    Adrianna Diaz
    Doris Elizabeth
    Michael Fleming
    Lori Fisher-Smith
    Richard Focazio
    Charles Forline
    Jim Freeman
    Christopher Frew
    Randolph Giddings
    Edward Greaves
    Roger Greene
    Anna Gold
    Howard Hildebrand
    Richard Hocking (Hart)
    Dianna Ivasko
    Gary James
    Virginia Jenkins
    Frances Kalnay
    Joanne Keahey
    Susan Kearns
    Kevin Kelly
    Raymond Kennedy
    Cynthia Kingston
    Dennis Kocjan
    Agnes Kuchuk
    Jessica Lee
    Matthias McDonald
    Rosemary MacDonald
    Janet Male
    Sharole Mannering
    Joseph Monteleone
    Joseph Moreno
    Clare Morris
    Thomas Nicholson
    David Nikhazy
    Kristina Nielsen
    Frances Ninemire (Barrett)
    Neal O’Brien
    Nette Ornbak
    Ronald Payton
    Maria Rosa Perelli
    Joanne Munger Pontecorvo
    Alberto Rizzardi
    Stanley Robertson
    Cassandra (Marianne) Schmidt
    Marbin Schmidt
    Bill Serrao
    Brian Sisler
    Mildred Smith
    Maxine Topik
    Paul Tschirley
    Daniella Voss
    Karl Werner
    Susan Willoughby
    Stella Wirk

    +——————–+


  30. Gay Dominance

    It is this really what it has come to boys and girls of the Fellowship of Friends, you are content to live as drudging money suppliers for an evil authoritarian fag, who has long since crystallized in the wrong hydrogens, while taking “esoteric instructions” from As-if Beaverboy? The ballet, the opera, classical music, lovely fussed-over clothes, artificially genteel manners, conversations about European art, etc., all these typical Castro Street obsessions that C influence coincidentally insists that crazy Bob’s gold-leaf gay school indulge in so that you can experience higher consciousness – do you honestly believe that you have no other choice? Do you really believe that Christ and Buddha, Gurdjieff and Ouspensky, have agreed that this is the only way that “The Way” should to be conducted? Do you honestly think the immortals are eternally enjoying high tea and insist that their fag representative on earth make his hapless followers live the same way? Remember all this was originally for the sake of the Great Ark, the survival of Hydrogen Warefare, “Armageddon has wrung a school out of the Gods!” Do you see how sadly pathetic you’ve become? Look at yourself sitting at a meeting, one you coughed up a hundred bucks to be at so that in your endless sleep you will be sure to value the experience, attentively listening to As-if Beaverboy, freshly sucked-off by the greatest self-lover to grace the world since Nero or Caligula, while yet another Anointed Hopeful (how many does that make now, five?) tells you how to wake up. You have lost your f*cking minds. C influence has left the school, they are here with us. We are the awakened fortunate escapees while you live entirely oppressed under the unnecessary rule of gay dominance. Come out of there and finally face yourself and the positive shock of the real world. C influence has left the school and so should you.


  31. Joe Average

    Just kind of playing off the first paragraph of your post. Not going into the delusion part this is how I conceptualize the situation.
    Presence is an illusion. It is the interface of consciousness and essence, let’s say pressence. The soul is a temporary entity that exists only while we are incarnate. Consciousness can never be seen or experienced because it is the seer and experiencer. Pressence can, however, be experienced as this moment. This experience is completely unique to each individual who has ever or will ever exist. This explains the diverse opinions about it and experience of it.
    The problem with this description is that it portrays essence as monolithic and consciousness as static and lacking qualities. Or put more simply: Here, take this cannonball. Hope the water is deep.


  32. on June 6, 2007 at 7:21 am Demi Moaned

    There’s some interesting stuff posted here. But the form (that word again) of this blog is kind of clumsy– no threading of responses, no topic headings. It’s kind of hard to follow.

    Also, I have a terrible time just accessing the site. I get 504 Gateway Timeout errors, sometimes for hours at a stretch. Is it just me or does any one else have that issue?


  33. (Corrected version)

    Gay Dominance

    Is this really what it has come to boys and girls of the Fellowship of Friends, you are content to live as drudging money suppliers for an evil authoritarian fag, who has long since crystallized in the wrong hydrogens, while taking “esoteric instructions” from As-if Beaverboy? The ballet, the opera, classical music, lovely fussed-over clothes, artificially genteel manners, conversations about European art, etc., all these typical Castro Street obsessions that C influence coincidentally insists that crazy Bob’s gold-leaf gay school indulge in so that you can experience higher consciousness – do you honestly believe that you have no other choice? Do you really believe that Christ and Buddha, Gurdjieff and Ouspensky, have agreed that this is the only way that “The Way” should be conducted? Do you honestly think the immortals are eternally enjoying high tea and insist that their fag representative on earth make his hapless followers live the same way? Remember all this was originally for the sake of the Great Ark, the survival of Hydrogen Warfare, “Armageddon has wrung a school out of the Gods!” Do you see how sadly pathetic you’ve become? Look at yourself sitting at a meeting, one you coughed up a hundred bucks to be at so that in your endless sleep you will be sure to value the experience, attentively listening to As-if Beaverboy, freshly sucked-off by the greatest self-lover to grace the world since Nero or Caligula, while yet another Anointed Hopeful (how many does that make now, five?) tells you how to wake up. You have lost your f*cking minds. C influence has left the school, they are here with us. We are the awakened fortunate escapees while you live entirely oppressed under the unnecessary rule of gay dominance. Come out of there and finally face yourself and the positive shock of the real world. C influence has left the school and so should you.


  34. on June 6, 2007 at 9:03 am GOlb on Predictions

    Predictions were useful to create a temporary sense of final urgence in the machinery, until the real and permanent sense of urgence becomes clear: is a way to create friction. They will always happen as needed for an aim.

    Without that predictions whoever used them to be present would have more blank space in his experience as the machine will ordinarily keep thinking that it will live forever and delay the urgence of necessary efforts, that is promoting sleep. Of course No Person can avoid that.

    It is the largest scale that demonstrates the value of things and the largest scale can be seen only from the present moment.

    It is demonstrated now that most students didn’t understand the value and use of predictions at the time as they don’t understand it now.

    Robert is not a ‘stupid’ as by now us all should begin to guess and he just uses the tools that C influence* (which is not ordinary dual thought that keep us away from presence) tell him to use for the aim of being present. And he just goes with that higher forces.

    What has ‘HE’ gained from repeated failing predictions in the long run? He didn’t care about the high possiblity of the(repeated) failure.

    Presence Is Not In The Future.

    Who has gained anything from them?

    Right attitudes toward the right Thing.

    GOlb

    * a sweetie wrote somewere here (part 10) that at the deepest level of our individual beings our real ‘selves’ are ONE. The influence of that real SELF is called C-onscious.


  35. Okay, I changed the theme – I much prefered the previous format but the lack of numbered posts was a real problem.
    If you are having problems viewing it all, try other internet browsers – in particular mozilla firefox.
    And don’t worry about the image on the top of the blog, it is preset and I will change it as soon as I realize what better picture to put there.
    I may experiment with a different type of moderation – I will try leaving things going in real time and see how it goes. If it doesn’t work well, I will go back to manual moderation as I did on Animam Recro.
    And to those of you who don’t like my post on top, well, I have taken it from an impartial site (wikipedia) and added the same stuff I always do.


  36. on June 6, 2007 at 1:07 pm Mickey Buckle

    Well Esoteric Sheik,

    This is quite a revealing forum you have here. Read it for the first time today.

    As someone who grew up unattached to the FOF but with a birds eye view to the black, white and greys of the group it has been a new layer to my understanding to the spiritual chemistry involved.

    As an independent journalist myself it would be of mutual interest if you were to offer up your email adress that seems to be cloaked in this good but somewhat chaotic forum. (i.e. It’s like some blasted customer service link from hell with a constant loop of no contact).

    – A fellow Spiritual Chronicler of the Times


  37. I will be using the same e-mail address as before, ie.:

    recroanima/at/gmail.com


  38. Thanks In Memoriam for the touching post.


  39. Howard Carter
    Thank you for responding.

    Cs: “When was the last time the teacher gave you a personal observation to help you become more awake?”
    Hc: He gave me several personal observations 20 years ago that I am still working on.

    Cs: If the aim of the school is to awaken its participants then meeting your teacher once every 20 years is not enough, not for the money you are paying.

    Hc: My understanding is that the school gives us something (the ability to SR) but also wants something in return; They (Influence C) want our consciousness. They want our efforts to build their/our school.

    Cs: What happens to someone who awakens in the school? Is he asked to stay or go away?
    We know of the No Person case (Post 1-60).
    He/She was asked to take a leave of abscense. It showes that that the aim is at list not to keep students who have reached awakening.

    Cs: What are the aims of the school right now?
    Hc: The same as always, to create consciousness in its participants. Other subservient aims go under the heading of creating the “form” and change from time to time.

    What happened to the aim of establishing an arc (whatever that means). If that aim went out the window we were not notified.
    Many students leave in poor living conditions using their credit cards to the limits. How beneficial is that for awakening?

    Cs:“How does “Cave drawings” images help you to Self Remember?
    Hc: ” The theory is that all schools are the same school; they communicate with their future counterparts through the works they leave behind. Apparently the rust of sleep is so encrusted that we need to keep hearing the same thing said many ways to stir the emotions sufficiently to shake that rust away
    Cs: The “cave drawings” are beautiful but they are not the work of ancient schools. They have no “Hidden messages”.

    Helena:
    You are too harsh on Girard, please give him some slack. Your marital problems are common in most marriages.

    Siddiq: Dear No Person–perhaps it is not only about “being happy in the FOF”–I for one think a great deal can be improved so let me ask you for your PRACTICAL SUGGESTIONSi for those of us who may choose to stay in the FOF–how could we work on making the FOF a better place? Thanks (and I am not being sarcastic here).”

    CS: Please add to the list of 30 work I’s the word TRUTH.
    As in: BE-HOLD-TRUTH-BACK-TRUTH-BE.
    You might exchange the word truth also for SINCERITY, HONESTY, INTEGRITY and COMPASSION.
    Thank you


  40. Helena:

    I am swimming in the river of truth, and I do not know to which side of the river I might land.

    chopsticks


  41. In Memoriam

    Henry Vasquez (Miami/NewYork centers) died 1991.


  42. on June 6, 2007 at 2:53 pm Ames Gilbert

    To GOlb (#11-34)
    Most of your post is sheer imagination of the wrong kind, and a great demonstration of sleep while talking about being awake, or trying to give the impression thereof. Every affirmation you make for Burton is a lie, pure and simple. You have no idea why he made the predictions. All you can say, truthfully, is that he made them. You yourself may have used them (as I understand you to say—your meaning is rather unclear), that is, to provide personal friction, a sense of urgency. It is possible that Burton may have even meant this for the students generally. But, you cannot know, so you are lying. It sounds to me like you are repeating some meme that has sprung up among the faithful to justify Burton’s failures, because sentences like “It is the largest scale that demonstrates the value of things and the largest scale can be seen only from the present moment” are meaningless even after allowing for your poor language skills. The semantic content adds up to zero. You are also lying when you make another affirmation for Burton, “He didn’t care about the high possibility of the (repeated) failure.” First of all, there was no mention of the “high possibility” of failure when he made his predictions. You have added that yourself, based on your excellent hindsight. Secondly, you lie when you claim he didn’t care. You cannot know.

    Moving on. You didn’t answer the question, “What has ‘HE’ gained from repeated failing predictions in the long run?” The answer is, on the surface, “nothing”. That is the one you are fishing for. But I think there is a more subtle answer. Burton used the prediction to reinforce his image as a higher being/god, because prophecy (windows into the future) is one of the attributes or powers he thinks a higher being should have. Then he invited his followers to enter that fantasy with him. This was a step–by–step process, incremental. The objective was to gain power over his followers, because if they suspend their own judgment and ability to discriminate in favor of his version of reality, they become more dependent on him. A personal example: in 1993, Burton came up to me, pointed at his forehead and said, “Dear, do you see an eye here, looking out at you?”. I replied, “Do you mean literally, a third physical eye where your pineal gland is?”. He said, “Yes, I am looking out at you through a third eye, the eye of an angel. Do you see it?”. I asked again, “Do you mean literally a third eye, physically the same as your other eyes?”. He said, “Yes”. I replied, “No, Robert, I don’t see a literal third eye, all I can see is your forehead.” He said, “Well, I am an angel, there is a third eye looking out at you. Are you sure you can’t see it?”. I said, “I’m sorry, Robert, I don’t see it”. Then he turned away.
    I saw this as a clear invitation to enter his fantasy. It’s only a guess, but I’d say that many students would have gone with him into his fantasy, and said that they did see a literal third eye. I say this, because I watched others do exactly that on many occasions, either by actively accepting his invitation, or by silently acquiescing or not protesting; this happened very often at dinners, as he described his fantasies out loud in his monologues. Depending on the subject, the fantasy evoked either fear or infatuation, (either will send followers to sleep, but both are inimical to awakening and individuation).

    When the predictions fail, a student has at least two types of choices. They can follow Burton deeper into the fantasy (C-Influence has used this to humiliate me), make affirmations for him, like Golb and others in this blog, which just deepen the hypnosis, or buffer it completely, maybe with self-calming phrases like, “I’ll just record this as a theory”. Another set of choices might include re-evaluating the whole sorry mess, recognizing the weaknesses that led one to accept the fantasy, and backing out.

    So, to answer your final question, Golb, “Who has gained anything from them?”, I answer, “Robert Burton”. He has you fast, you think you are more real because you have adopted his fantasies, you are a good little follower who is blessed, you have a great collection of affirmations you trot out to help keep your fellows asleep on his behalf, and sayings for every occasion. He has your money and your adoration. He may even have the use of your body, for all I know. Multiply by 1900 or so. Sweet deal. For once, you’re certainly right, Burton is not a ‘stupid’—on that level.

    With love to you, and everyone ‘on the blog’,
    Ames


  43. on June 6, 2007 at 3:09 pm More history needed?

    Virginia Jenkins died in November 2006.


  44. on June 6, 2007 at 3:10 pm More history needed?

    Correction, Virginia jenkins died in November 2005


  45. on June 6, 2007 at 3:31 pm In Memoriam (addition)

    +——————–+

    In Memoriam

    Rourke Murphy

    +——————–+

    At the last, tenderly,
    From the walls of the powerful, fortress’d house,
    From the clasp of the knitted locks—from the keep of the well-closed doors,
    Let me be wafted.

    Let me glide noiselessly forth;
    With the key of softness unlock the locks—with a whisper
    Set ope the doors, O soul!

    Tenderly! be not impatient!
    (Strong is your hold, O mortal flesh!
    Strong is your hold, O love!)

    -Walt Whitman


  46. on June 6, 2007 at 3:43 pm Veronicapoe

    For those interested, the minutes of the Governing Board of the Lafayette School District meeting of March 27, 1967 are now available online:

    http://www.archive.org/details/TheEsotericHistoryArchive_907


  47. on June 6, 2007 at 3:45 pm Veronicapoe

    Bernadette Fuquay, who had other names, died in 2000, I believe.


  48. To Chopsticks,

    You’re perfectly right but most other men are not pretending to be conscious and using people’s credibility to continue supporting someone even more sleep than him.

    Hopefully you’ll eventually understand that it is not really the intimacy of our marriage that I am exposing, it is the objective look of what we’ve been trying to work towards, where and how we have failed. There are no separate lines as people pretend to establish. Here is the narcissistic sex maniac, here is the conscious being. Here is the porno addict, stereotype macho, here is the conscious being. Here is the bad wife, here is the bad student, here is another one we can dump out of our illusion.

    In the intimacy of our marriage there was love. Like in any marriage. We both tried our best. I have no problem acknowledging that, it is precious. What I am exposing is the fact that there is no coherence between Robert or Girard’s first, second or third line with consciousness and if it is the case that they are as sleep as anybody else, they are pretending that they have verified each other’s so that another bunch of fools like the fourteen thousand of us, continue supporting their illusion for the rest of their lives. That to me is fraud, that is what I am questioning.

    No, I’ll take my pain and deal with it but I won’t stay silent about the great contradictions around here.


  49. To Siddiq,

    Would you please expand on the nature of your friendship with Robert? I’ve seen that he is not even a friend to his promised to be second conscious being on the planet, so what service are you doing to him that makes you more acceptable? Has he ever sat with you without any agenda?

    Around here when people are not counting money they are counting time and never have time for friendship. It is all a convenient interchange of services.

    Friendship, second line, is out of time, that is why it never developed consciously in the fellowship. Men serve Robert for twenty years, thirty and he discards them equally. That is not friendship.

    Yours must be like that because I’ve not seen you around no matter how difficult it’s been. You love this virtual friendship with the computer, right?

    Talking of which, if someone knows of any young teenager available for some work I’d be wiling to pay them.

    Please e-mail me at ludoteka at succeed dot net

    Thank you.


  50. on June 6, 2007 at 4:08 pm for the Best

    In Memoriam

    Robert Gall (Paris center) died 1992
    Kim Kan (Paris center) died 2004


  51. To the Sheik,

    Surely it’s taken effort to change the format, thank you. It is much easier to read in white.

    On the sketchbook, if you’re really willing to wait for a long time I might eventually get to it but it doesn’t look like it is going to be me. The quality of the blog has much improved or maybe I’ve just learned to take all the negative angles and swallow them. The controversy is vital and alive and it shows who we are as much as anything else.

    Between leaving the Fellowship, separating, Dorothy’s death and moving out of here I won’t be getting to the sketch book in the near future but it is a dream for further ahead.

    If anyone else wishes to make that selection of material from here, I’d be happy to give them the role.


  52. In Memoriam

    Katy Kudo?


  53. To Siddiq,

    I thought I’d already sent this but it doesn’t appear.

    Would you please expand on the nature of your friendship with Robert? I’ve seen that he is not even a friend to his promised to be second conscious being on the planet, so what service are you doing to him that makes you more acceptable? Has he ever sat with you without any agenda?

    Around here when people are not counting money they are counting time and never have time for friendship. It is all a convenient interchange of services.

    Friendship, second line, is out of time, that is why it never developed consciously in the fellowship. Men serve Robert for twenty years, thirty and he discards them equally. That is not friendship.

    Yours must be like that because I’ve not seen you around no matter how difficult it’s been.


  54. Hello Sheik,

    I just posted a comment to the new blog without entering my mail address. Was that post lost? It seemed to disappear. If that is the case, I will try and reconstruct it.

    Thanks for everything.


  55. To 29:

    Names that I did not see listed include: Nancy Farrell, Bernadette Fuquay-Domingo (?), Mitchell Potter, Louis-Marie Clancy, Mary Blake and Michael Praetorius. Also Frances Calney should probably be spelled Francis Calney (he was a male, I believe). Thanks Jonathan F., for doing this.
    _____
    To 30, “The King of Clubs”

    The true nature of “The King of Clubs” is starting to shine through, or so it would seem. A bit homophobic, perhaps…


  56. on June 6, 2007 at 5:14 pm Living the Questions

    To Siddiq, post #19

    I have looked up the significance of the word/name Siddiq (feminine form: Siddiqah BTW) Arabic word meaning “truthful”. In Sufism, Siddiq is a rank that comes after prophet. Generally given to a person who verified the claim of prophethood in its early stage.

    1. Would you please elaborate on what you consider to be the important characteristics of friendship?
    2. Would you be so kind as to elaborate as to what, specifically, you have verified about Rovert Burton’s claim to be a man #7, and a prophet of God?

    BTW, I appreciate your posts, but question the beneficience of your loyalty.


  57. on June 6, 2007 at 5:23 pm You-me-us-they

    I am glad Sheik is willing to continue to offer this “stage” for us!
    Thank you!

    I left the FOf recently and I was prepared to “sacrifice” the beautiful friends… Not necessary!
    Of course, some will will be remembered but not experienced any longer while others (Is this not a good news ?), will firmly state their willingness to continue meeting you!

    I did not know what would be my reaction when the various mails regarding the FOF (daily cards, official or comunity messages and so on) would stop appearing.
    The good news is that there is, so far, so special feeling about that as well.

    I did not know about my desire to continue experiencing presence. Here too, the worries were all the way unecessary!

    I gess I am talking about fear(s) here…
    All the way unecessary!

    To leave the School is a “big” change, in my case, stimulating many other major changes, in others areas of my life, were “confort” was prevailing as well.
    Because, yes, the FOF was confortable place to be…

    As anyone knows, confort and creativity does not dance together…

    No biterness, resentments or anger:
    I am a product of the FOF but no longer in need ‘to belong” to it.

    My departure was simple, natural, healthy.

    If there will be any regret, it could be not to have organized a “good by” party!
    Champagne, music, poetry… Good by my fancy!

    Ready, well prepared for other experiences, I walk, and even dance on that “ground”…

    Let me finish with this:
    “EVIDENCE”
    phonetically, in French language can sound like!
    “ET VIE DANCE”
    which could be translated:
    AND=Et
    LIFE=Vie
    DANCE=Danse

    And Life Dance!

    Gratitude.


  58. on June 6, 2007 at 5:23 pm Veronicapoe

    Marilyn Scott, I believe.


  59. Regarding the continued discussion of the Fellowship of Friends and Robert Burton, a friend of mine compared it to a group of people who have escaped from an insane asylum. Instead of leaving they gather at a window and continue to look inside, periodically turning to each other and exclaiming, “Did you see what he/they did?!!!”

    There is probably a little truth in this analogy but there is more to this prolonged dialogue than a morbid interest in the sick and distorted relationship between RB and his followers.

    As many have said before, it continues because there is a need to understand and have the truth revealed and acknowledged. Unfortunately, there will never be any acknowledgement or even recognition of wrong doing on the part of RB and/or his enablers.
    The organization and the leader are very, very sick and worse, they have no shred of conscience.

    Most of the sincere posters on this blog are speaking from conscience to people whose consciences are damaged. It is like speaking two different languages. Almost pointless.


  60. Writing here for my brother Siddiq

    there are degrees of friendship

    the lowest degree is where you place your bother on the same footing as your slave or your servant, attending to his needs from your surplus

    at the second degree you place your brother on the same footing as yourself, you are content to have him as a partner in your property adn to treat him like yourself, sharing equally

    at the third degree, you prefer your brother to yourself and set his need before your own, this is the degree of the Siddiq, and the final stage for those united in spiritual love


  61. I am still hoping to hear from the spin doctors of the FOF Wikipedia entrys.

    To say that the predictions were only symbolic is shamelessly insulting to the followers who kept the TASK of quiting their jobs to move to Oregon House for three months prior to Burton’s prediction of the fall of California. I personally know of several people who lost good jobs and are still paying off huge debts because of this. The alternative to keeping this task was to be asked to leave the group. There was one person who managed to stay in the school and not keep this task and it was only because he was too wealthy to risk losing.

    When it was timidly mentioned to him by one person that it had taken ten years to pay off the debt incured by keeping this exercise, RB was outraged at the implication that he might have some responsibility for this burden.

    How do you justify claiming that these “predictions” and the actions and tasks issuing from them were symbolic? This is fast talking at it’s best.


  62. “To leave the School is a “big” change, in my case, stimulating many other major changes, in others areas of my life, were “confort” was prevailing as well.
    Because, yes, the FOF was confortable place to be…”

    Yes, because actually you only thought you were in the School!

    Of course you can get even more mechanical comfort out here….


  63. on June 6, 2007 at 6:27 pm Truth is Where You Find It

    Thank you, Sheik.

    I like the new format. And thanks for adding the numbers. The Find function in MS Internet Explorer finally works on them, unlike the previous format. The layout is also a little wider, making it easier to read, or scroll through, those lo-o-o-o-o-ng posts.

    I like the new picture so much I made it a scrrensaver. A pleasant, serene retreat that sits at the top of my screen above the ‘exercised’ nature of this discussion. But, as you quote in the header, “Free speech is a dirty business.”


  64. on June 6, 2007 at 6:30 pm Skeptical Optimist

    Sheik
    Thanks for the format adjustments, looks much better.
    FYI, I haven’t had any technical problems with the new blog.

    14 Joe Average
    Fantastic post, way “above average.” Please keep writing.

    29 In memoriam
    I believe it’s Francis Kalnay.

    Elena
    I have a lovely book of daily photos of tibetan buddhists with accompanying quotes. Here’s today’s:

    When there’s a disappointment I don’t know if it’s the end of the story.
    But it may be just the beginning of a great adventure.

    JoelF


  65. Hey Sheik-

    The new format is very good. I’m having no problem with my browser and the real time update is excellent.

    To Joel F: Thanks for posting the quote. It would be nice to see more postings like that.

    So many of the posts on the blog are oozing personality and that’s fine. The blog is a very diverse environment- just like life, and one has to use their own personal discrimination to decide which words to hold on to and which one’s to let go.
    I think the blog is a very positive thing and it’s very useful to have a place where you can meet and talk to other’s who have been in the fellowship and who have spent quite a bit of time working with fourth way ideas.

    Regards to all


  66. Opus 111 #53-page 1, new blog

    To 33, “The King of Clubs”

    “The true nature of “The King of Clubs” is starting to shine through, or so it would seem. A bit homophobic, perhaps…”

    ___________

    “Homophobic” is a double-think idea used by gay dominance to put people in fear if they sound politically incorrect about how natural it is for hairy, muscular, testosterone exuding naked apes to find it appealing and exciting to stick their penises up one another’s asses. Such cravings are definitely a propensity of the sensitive king of hearts.

    A small portion of the population are born homosexual, they do not choose to be attracted to the same sex and they have no choice about what their essence wants. They should not be judged harshly or persecuted, until their emotional instinct to put the rest of us under gay dominance becomes a factor. To the rest of us it is not particularly “lovely” when men are sexually aggressive toward other men. This is why gay men have lived in fear for their lives in the recent past, when they seek their own they are left alone. But here is what the real issue is, the Dictator of Isis gets a non-gay male alone (usually drunk and often in a foreign country) and subtly threatens him about what it is going to be like when he is no longer in the “inner circle” if he refuses to submit to being spiritually-sexually molested. This is spiritual cannibalism. Look here:

    “After a few weeks of living at Renaissance, following a heavy drinking ‘symposium’, Robert took me inside of one of the Academy rooms and wanted to have sex with me.

    “When I told him that I did not want this because I had no homosexual feelings, nor did I want to see myself assume those practices, Robert dismissed my arguments by saying that I should externally consider him as my teacher.

    “Partly out of fear for this ‘all powerful’ being, partly not to want to feel guilty or judged, but largely because of the energy with which Robert approached me, I was left with the feeling I had no choice.

    “While Robert went about his business of trying to stimulate an orgasm from me which he was going to receive orally I pointed out to him that I was covering my face with my hands out of shame. Robert retorted that this was a good opportunity for work for me.

    “This was the beginning of my functioning as a sexual servant which lasted for several years.”

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ArkansasBob/message/9

    Any other observations Opie?


  67. Tim C. (18): Quoting Al Gore: “The unwillingness to solve this problem is not only the result of a lack of political will, but it has also been caused by the emergence of a new political environment dangerously hostile to reason, knowledge, and facts.”

    Vena (57): “Unfortunately, there will never be any acknowledgement or even recognition of wrong doing on the part of RB and/or his enablers… Most of the sincere posters on this blog are speaking from conscience to people whose consciences are damaged. It is like speaking two different languages. Almost pointless.”

    Similar to those in power in today’s American political climate, Robert Burton and his enablers have one “advantage” in any attempt to communicate with them: They don’t tell people what they are thinking; instead, they tell people what they want them to believe they are thinking.

    The reason? Their intent is not to inform but to misinform and obfuscate. Why? Because the spread of information does not work to their advantage. Disinformation and misinformation, meanwhile, do work to their advantage. Lack of genuine, honest communication is not an error — it’s a strategy. And it’s a strategy for preventing change that could affect their wealth, power, and way of life.

    No true or meaningful communication can take place between two people when one or both parties are trying to hide the truth. It simply goes in circles.

    This also explains why Fellowship wikipedia editors would suggest that Robert Burton’s predictions were only “symbolic” (see post 59 by Vena).

    Why would they make such an absurd contention? Well, because the truth is damaging to their agenda — an agenda to present the Fellowship of Friends as positively as possible, and to distract everyone from issues that may present the Fellowhip of Friends negatively. Robert Burton predicted a worldwide depression would occur in 1984, the “fall of California” would occur in 1998, and World War III would occur in 2006. To put it mildly, these predictions reflect a weakness on Burton’s part (as well as a type of mental illness, which some of us have shared or continue to share with him, by the way), but these predictions also focus the discussion on how Robert Burton has had negative effects on the lives of many FOF members. So, in an attempt to distract people from these facts, the fof Wikipedia editors called it a metaphor.

    Hmm. Maybe they were thinking no one would notice? I can’t blame them for thinking that, since apparently there are many things that we haven’t noticed over the years.

    But trying to hide facts in this way — as Vena writes — is not conscience, is not consciousness, is not the Work, is not doing the will of spiritual beings, is not effort, is not the way of the sly man, is not true personality, and is not awakening.

    Call it was it is. It is a lie. And as we are discovering, there are many more lies to be found.


  68. GOlb #60:

    “…because actually you only thought you were in the School!”

    Ykes, it’s the thought police! Run for your lives!

    Keep silent! Anything you ‘think’ can and will be used against you…

    #55 You-me-us-they have been found to be in violation of FOF section 44, “Thinking on your own, failure to conform”!

    Verdict: Guilty!

    Bailiff, please escort this soul from prison and set them free.

    And let that be a lesson to you.


  69. #14, Joe Average

    That was indeed a very good presentation, one that at least echoes my own experience.

    Predictions may have been “theories”, they were in no way theoritical or symbolic. They were practical, with very practical implications for members, most amongst them those living in California before 1998. The tone of prophecies changed dramatically after 1998 and a couple of failed repeats. After that, they were mentioned rarely, and “the greatest of them all”, Armageddon 2006, passed un-noticed like a wet firecracker.


  70. A question for Sheikh:

    Is there a way to search all 10 previous pages of the discussion in a simple way, without having to repeat the search for every page?


  71. MYSTERY!

    What is it about humans that causes us to go totally loopy when we hear someone cry “mystery”?

    Why are half of the documentaries you’ve ever seen on various Discovery-type channels titled “The Secrets of Deep Sea” and “The Mysteries of Ancient India” and “Hidden Treasures of Japan”? Or “Finally, the secret of successful dieting revealed!” Why does J.K. Rowling write a children’s book about a secret school where special powers are taught to young wizards who are inherently different from the rest of the people on Earth (“muggles”) and makes 4 billion dollars? Why do people get so excited over “illuminati” and conspiracy theories, secret societies? Why does a film called “The Secret” (to be outdone by “The Secret behind the Secret”), claiming that ancient secret teachers were keepers of secret knowledge that has been hidden in order to be preserved, and it has traveled through centuries to finally reach you, and promises to give you control of the events of your life – you can get anything you desire if you only focus on thinking and feeling positive – why does that become an international best-seller and the hottest thing in contemporary “spirituality”? Why do people become devoted to a Robert Burton who claims to be the only one on Earth with a special connection to mysterious higher forces, which include ancient authorities who support him (according to himself), and reveals hidden knowledge that has been kept secret for 30,000 years and is only now understood correctly for the first time, by him and his disciples, and who promises you can achieve control of your lower self and thereby save yourself from extinction?

    A common theme running through esotericism is a small exclusive group of illuminati, in possession of a secret knowledge that gives them a decisive advantage over the rest of the uninitiated masses. This knowledge must be carefully guarded from being revealed to the unworthy. It cannot be understood by everybody, and is not readily apparent to anybody. It requires difficult payment and prolonged efforts to be accessible and attained. The possession of this knowledge makes people powerful and elevated above others. They hold out the promise that you will finally understand what life’s all about, what’s going on with the universe, and then you will be safe/saved. Finally, you’ve gotten hold of this one thing that you had always needed, that had always been missing, so that now, NOW you will be able to live correctly at last!

    Today it’s called the Sequence:

    A group of invisible highly evolved beings called Influence C exclusively transmits ancient esoteric knowledge to Robert. The aim is to use the Sequence to become a conscious being, just like eminent people in the past, such as Lincoln, Plato, Shakespeare and Buddha. The Sequence has been around for 30.000 years but has been kept hidden and not available to people at large. It has always been kept by the select few. Now it is being revealed to us for the first time in history. Traditions have called it so many different things. But every tradition, every religion, every philosophy, every school of the past tells us the same thing – they all understood the Sequence. By using it, we achieve prolonged presence, which is the hidden meaning of life on Earth. You should make a habit of it, remember to use it every day, live it, but it should never be a chore. Choose your thoughts carefully. You must control your imagination and not allow any negative thoughts to enter, because that’s when you lose. Also, intellectual understanding is not enough – you must find ways to make this emotional, because only the right emotion carries enough power to engage presence. When you’re negative, don’t express that emotion, find reasons to not express it, adopt a positive attitude about the school, don’t allow any I’s unrelated to promoting presence. When you become intentional and on fire for what you want, your higher centers will ignite and you will enter prolonged presence. It is a six-step process: Be, Hold, Look, Back, Look, Be. After the last step, you let go and enjoy the fruits of your efforts: prolonged presence. The Sequence is indisputable objective truth. Once you accept it, it is life-transforming. If you don’t understand it, it doesn’t mean you should reject it. If you feel it’s not working, or you are not getting results, you must be making the wrong efforts and you need to keep practicing and learning how to apply it. Don’t get frustrated, disappointed or doubtful; this will only drag you deeper into negativity. Choose your attitude intentionally and replace those negative feelings with unwavering trust. You can’t get anything out of the school if you focus on doubt and negativity instead of on the possibilities and wonderful opportunities. After all, R. W. Emerson said: “That which dominates our imaginations and our thoughts will determine our lives, and our character.”

    Today it’s called the Secret:

    A group of invisible highly evolved beings called Abraham exclusively transmits ancient esoteric knowledge to Esther. The aim is to use the Secret to become a joyous being, just like eminent people in the past, such as Lincoln, Plato, Shakespeare and Buddha. The Secret has been around for 2.000 years but has been kept hidden and not available to people at large. It has always been kept by the select few. Now it is being revealed to us for the first time in history. Traditions have called it so many different things. But every tradition, every religion, every philosophy, every avatar, every great leader of the past tells us the same thing – they all understood the Secret. By using it, we achieve anything we want, which is the hidden meaning of life on Earth. You should make a habit of it, remember to use it every day, live it, but it should never be a chore. Choose your thoughts carefully. You must control your random thoughts and not allow any negative thoughts to enter, because that’s when you lose. Also, intellectual understanding is not enough – you must find ways to make this emotional, because only the right feeling carries enough power to manifest what you want. When you’re feeling down, change your emotion, think of something beautiful, then dwell on it, block everything out but that thought. When you become intentional and on fire for what you want, the universe will deliver all you want around you. It is a three-step process: Ask, Believe, Receive. After the last step, you let go and enjoy the fruits of your efforts: your new car. The Secret is an objective universal law, it works for everybody, all the time. Once you accept it, it is life-transforming. If you don’t understand it, it doesn’t mean you should reject it. If you feel it’s not working, or you are not getting results, you must be wrongly focusing on what’s lacking, and you must learn how to apply it better. Don’t get frustrated, disappointed or doubtful, because the universe will just respond and manifest failure. Choose your attitude intentionally and replace those negative feelings with unwavering faith. You won’t get results if you keep focusing on what is not there instead of already feeling good. After all, R. W. Emerson said: “The Secret is the answer to all that has been, all that is, and all that will ever be.”

    Take your pick: which do you want to believe? Do we find one more believable than the other? More noble? The same arguments can be used to support any end. In what ways is wanting to get presence and immortality different from wanting to get a million dollars and a soul-mate?

    The same fundamental need for “special” in us morphs into different external forms. Should we prefer one form over the other? If yes, why?


  72. on June 6, 2007 at 8:07 pm Elimination

    Thank you for nourishing my process so much in this right tool for it which is an anonymous blog. Of course some waste needs a name.

    By the way, do you remember that arguing in part 3 about you, me, him, she, them, us? Do anyone remember? What was that about? huh?

    …oh yes, all the same.

    Elimination


  73. on June 6, 2007 at 8:13 pm Comic Relief

    Since sex seems to be an intrinsic part of this discussion, I thought I would introduce you all to a little known scientific hypothesis that has the unique propery of being instantly verifiable by every thinking person on the planet.

    “Sex is hereditary. If your parents never had it, chances are you won’t either.”
    Quoted from Joseph Fischer


  74. on June 6, 2007 at 8:41 pm Was KathleenW

    From #69 (Great post, Traveler):

    “Take your pick: which do you want to believe? Do we find one more believable than the other? More noble? The same arguments can be used to support any end. In what ways is wanting to get presence and immortality different from wanting to get a million dollars and a soul-mate?”

    I’ve been out of FoF for a long time so bear with me here. Where did the idea that we need to “get” presence, a soul and immortality come from? I know it came from G & O and Co., but before that?

    What if we already have those things? What if our “work” is to remove layers of cruft that keep us from being aware of the soul/presence we have innately and living our lives with and through that awareness?


  75. on June 6, 2007 at 8:43 pm You-me-us-they

    Respons to Golb (60).

    I did not leave the FOF because I did not want to work anymore but because I wanted to !

    Some tools help, others do not help.
    Quite simple!

    Yes, Golb, I realised the FOF was “confort”,
    because you see, even the taste for “struggle”, “effort”, “bleeding” is, somewhat, confortable…
    When not addictive for some!

    Shall I try this one?
    I struggle, so I AM!

    Right… Too obvious!

    Feel for yourself the most genuine nature of my message.
    Its main point point was about “creativity”…

    There is a strange contest still going on, unfruitfully,
    since centuries if not millenia:
    the more wounds (+/= tranformation of),
    the more laurel leaves (or thorns) on your crown…
    the more confortable your chair in paradise!

    I wrote some words, time ago, on a painting from Jeronimous Bosch. A triptic giving his vision of earth, hell and paradise.
    He was inspired enough to propose a view of paradise which is as disturbing as the one of hell!

    The “black and white” (life versus FOF) clothing is given to people when they enter a prison!
    Could it be that the verticality of the stripes brought one any higher?

    Gratitude.

    PS if you were to answer this post, please do not “struggle” hard to find another stand point.


  76. on June 6, 2007 at 9:21 pm You-me-us-they

    To Wale Rider, post 66:

    Right post number?
    Any omen here ?

    Thanks! Wonderful ‘co-incidence’ with the prison metaphore!

    When the given verticality of the human form unites the given vertical stripes of the uniform…

    And for “free”!

    Gratitude.


  77. Dear friends
    are you sitting comfortably and deeply engaged with presence? Then let us begin. Some of you have asked why there are so many jewish people in the leadership of the non school.
    Have a look at “The protocols of the elders of zion”if you get a chance.
    Personally i have nothing against jews or gays in fact most of my friends are gay jews.
    But back to seriousness, to our american friends are you aware that every major network for film, tv, radio and news are jewish owned. Hollywood “which is the kind of wood which a majic wand is traditionally made from” has been working its majic on you and much of the rest of the world for many years. Go ahead and try to get some pro arab prgrammes on any of these networks.
    A great irony is that many so called jews are not in fact “real” jews at all, but in order to understand what that means one needs to know jewish history.
    Another funny thing about jewish infiltration and control of other countries is that communist russia was jewish led, dont believe me check it out! trotsky, alias david branstein, karl marx, alias mordecai levi whose father was a rabbi, lenin also jewish and last but not least stalin not jewish but married to one. There isnt so much publlicity about it “as one needs access to the media for that” but its estimated that sixty five million non jews were killed. Now come back to the present in both ways, why is bush so supportive of the zionist agenda?
    Because he is simply a front man, in fact the whole jewish people may be being used also! Ever heard of the black pope? he is a real Rumpelstiltskin.
    names names names..could change my name to goyim but i prefer Tzaddik.
    all the best to all
    “we are such stuff as dreams are made on and our little life is rounded with a sleep”. W S.
    cyclops or black ops.


  78. #75, Crawl back under your rock with your reptilian friends cyclops. I doubt anyone here wants to read that kind of moronic shit.


  79. The idea that people who have spent no time in the fof are reading this blog gives me a sinking feeling like when you go up or down too fast in an elevator. If you’re an outsider, I hope you’ve gotten the idea by now that disengaging from the fof is worse than the worst divorce because you’re divorcing a phantom. You’re divorcing something that you thought was the Road Less Traveled. A path that would lead you to your Self in the midst Watergate, Tiny Tim and Iran Contra. Kinda like divorcing a shipping lane in the middle of the ocean. We all know it’s there but it has no distinct boundaries. Is there any individual story that could tell the tale? Whose? Miles? (I hope you are ok Miles.) RB’s? Elena’s? Collin’s? (Hi Collin!).

    So much to fathom. Bless you Sheik for creating this space.

    No, unoanimo amor mio, I haven’t seen Whale Rider’s toaster. It may be on a sunken ship at the bottom of one of those shipping lanes.

    As to the vitriolic rhetoric coming from the old timers… We can only thank them for validating our worst fears. Although it’s difficult to imagine that we once broke bread together.

    Once, circa 1978, I was sitting with Laura Bishop (bless Laura’s memory) in the lobby of the Pierre Hotel in New York. For those of you readers who didn’t know Laura, picture Peter Pan as an incredibly sophisticated young woman with a 130+ IQ wearing a Pucci dress, Gucci shoes and an Hermes purse. Not kidding. Laura had just received a family heirloom from her mother. It was a diamond ring. She was showing it to me there in the lobby of the Pierre…an art deco ring with a big diamond in the middle and lots of smaller ones around it. A profusion of sparkles. I looked at it closely and, unbelievably, there was a chip at the edge of the central diamond. After a few minutes I pointed this out to her. We were both shocked. I felt bad pointing it out but it would have been a lie had I pretended not to see it. We both laughed, she transformed her disappointment and I my inner considering. We went on with our day. What Laura would have said about this blog? It boggles my mind.

    Saluti to ALL who have tread this path.

    As many others on the blog have already implied…
    We leave the fof but we need not say farewell to our Self.

    Love,
    Shelley

    ps.
    In Memoriam
    Luciano Tommassini 1948-1995


  80. Traveler #69:

    Good insights on Mysteries, secrets, secret-keepers and power. I think the allure of mysteries and secrets is that something in us recognizes a Truth: our existence is steeped in a deep Mystery. Distortion: We think the Mystery is something to be solved. Someone claims to have solved it and tries to sell us the solution. With all the lost, hungry souls wandering the planet, “a fine living can be made….”

    I’ve been pondering the mainstream popularity of The Secret. It appeals to the rampant consumerism that’s sweeping the globe. That’s the distorted aspect. The more True aspect of the Law of Attraction is expressed in the Hermetic formulation, “As Above, So Below. As Within, So Without.” It’s sad that the film emphasized a materialistic application of this…but then that’s what sells movies. The inner, spiritual meaning is glossed over. What’s the use of gaining the whole world if you lose touch with your soul?

    Maybe it’s possible to manifest material abundance on earth through awakening consciousness of our true nature. Could we all live in peace and share this beautiful planet? Or is this a naive dream?

    KathleenW #72:

    “What if our “work” is to remove layers of cruft that keep us from being aware of the soul/presence we have innately and living our lives with and through that awareness?”

    Amen to that! Sacred space is everywhere and the text is your own life.

    The Fountain is a visually stunning movie with many layers of meaning about life, death, rebirth, immortality, awe, love and time. Highly Recommended for all you metaphor/myth/magic lovers.

    “Life is not a problem to be solved but a Mystery to be lived.”
    – Rumi


  81. ah 76 bruce cohen!
    take a look out from under your no doubt very highly conscious rock sometime, these people are controlling what you think, thats the anology to the fof.
    I wasnt aware that it was only how to be conscious, or that one doesnt have to try or that the fellowship is great, or the fellowship sucks etc that were “allowable”posts”.
    When i did peek out from under my rock after many years (my rock was the fellowship of friends) and took a look around it seemed that the totalitarian tiptoe had made enormous progress and the federal government while we were busy contemplating our navels were busy tightening their stranglehold via the military industrial complex.This is the external reptile that bites childrens heads off in Irak and other places, try to research all of the broken young soldiers trying to get asylum in canada because their conscience made them go awol.
    And sincerely try to look at cathy obriens story about the mk ultra mind control project, i would genuinely like to hear another opinion about that.
    “Then to the rolling heaven itself i cried, asking what lamp had destiny to guide her little children stumbling in the dark? and a blind understanding it replied”. O Khayam.


  82. Hello,
    I recently looked at the blog after hearing many things about it. Me and some friends who are members would be very gratefull if some of you who have been here from before can give us references of good posts.
    There is so much it is hard to read. If several people gave us their 10 favorite posts that illustrate the main issues best it would help us a lot and many others.
    Thank you. It feels like getting bigger, aware of more things, truth that was in the dark coming to light.
    Thank you.


  83. Yeah just read all the garbage written by Elena Haven, then think the opposite of all she writes, which is the truth, look at all the pictures of the former students on page 10 (you don’t want to end up like them, do you?) and then finish by reading What Cry Baby said so well, and has never been duplicated on page 2 of the blog, this is a good start. When you are done, your attitude should be well adjusted. Good luck.

    Nothing more is needed.

    LOL


  84. Hey I like this real time stuff!

    No more sheik censoring our writing as before!

    LOL


  85. Thanks Joe, I really enjoyed your post #14. I can’t agree more with what you say.
    It can be seen that Robert’s mistaken focus on “individual awakening” or “personal immortality” inevitably promotes such things as competition, judgment and comparison between his students. Division breeds division. Despite of all the beautiful talk that there cannot be competition in personal work, all are equal in this and what one gains we all gain – judgment and comparison are going on, more fueled by unnecessary and untrue remarks about “life times” that students are supposedly on… A friend told me once about the overall spirit in Russian centers : ” to over-selfremember others and make sure your efforts are noticed.” I found it to be so funny.
    So much tension and suffering occurs because of Robert’s own misunderstanding! Awakening is seen and taught in FOF as some kind of “personal” attainment, something special, rare, that “promotes” a person to a “higher level”… It is so distorted and misleading! There is no person in us to wake up, because ego is not real, it never lived on it’s own! Who is going to wake up? Who is asleep? Without immediately reaching for labels – try to answer this just by honest self-inquiry.
    Our true nature -or “higher centers” if you wish – never ever slept, even according to the system. So, whom are we trying to wake up after all? And what are that “we”?
    It seems that the teaching appeals to our imaginary identity and strengthens it, gives the imaginary “me” tools for self-promotion instead of sincere questioning of the whole concept of the “me” or “ego”.
    Most of us don’t ever question the concept of “me”. And yet this is the most important question to ponder in one’s life : WHO AM I? The ancient advice: “Know thyself”. It’s not about “what shall I do”, and “how shall I do this or that?” but “WHAT AM I?” How often do we actually ask this?
    Great news is that the answer, although seems hidden, is always within us, not “over there”, and not owned by this “special enlightened person”. Who we are doesn’t have to be purchased or achieved. It requires honest quiet looking within, in a very simple way, not some time later but now, in the present moment. What we are is right here, always here. And it is not this mental thought story of “me”, not the ideas in the head…
    In our true nature we are impersonal nothingness, neutral conscious watching or observing of what is right now. In this alive awareness occur everything else – thoughts, objects, our aging body, feelings, emotions. Mind labels and explains these experiences and makes some intellectual connections depending on our upbringing, education etc. Explanations, events and whatever else occur doesn’t affect the awareness that we essentially are. And this imaginary “me” – it’s a false reference point, empty of substance. It exists in the mind only as a thought, as a story about “you”. You are not this thought! You already exist before any thought ever appear. Awareness is already there before anything, before any effort, before the ego. It is ever-present, alive and radiant, in everything, in every pair of eyes. In our true nature we are totally equal, we all are in essence this conscious cognizing principle. How can there be competition? Between whom and whom? Who is worse or better than another? We all are that presence, and always been – it’s not an individual attainment or achievement, it’s who we all essentially are. Consciousness, manifesting as all these wonderful forms. In recognizing this there is a true joy and end of unnecessary suffering. It’s not serious, it’s light, simple, joyful.
    Thanks for reading, sorry for the length and much love to all.
    malaec@yahoo.com


  86. Veronicapoe
    #461-10 and #465-10

    Interesting material about “legacy” of FOF. The same words…
    I wonder if Robert even knows these people. James Randazzo and Jim and Carolyn Kuziak
    And I am really curious if Alex Horn knows about Robert! What would he say about him if he was asked directly. Does anyone knows Alex’s phone number – I want to call him!
    I heard that at first years of FOF people who were Alex Horn’s students at the same time as RB were not allowed to join FOF!


  87. on June 7, 2007 at 12:01 am Was KathleenW

    Welcome Newcomer.

    For myself it would be a daunting task to come up with 10 favorite posts. Just go back to the beginning and start reading. After awhile, you’ll get a sense of how to move through things more quickly without missing much. It will be worth it, and it doesn’t need to be done in one sitting.

    99% of the people here will behave themselves and be nice to you.


  88. LOL: If I remember correctly I never censored a single one of your posts. And yes, I am counting your other personas too.

    Free speech is a dirty business but I try to give it free reign. I have been deleting comments before, in the next couple of days you may come to realize what kind of comments I have been deleting (I won’t delere anything for a short trial period) and for what reason. Yes, there are some disturbed/disturbing characters among us.

    I am going to keep things running as they are now for a while, then I would like to hear from all of you how you would like the blog to be run. Let’s try to run this bitch together.

    One more thing, While writing comments always fill in the Name and E-mail address fields or your comment will not be processed.

    I would also like to warn some of you that taking the piss and being uncivil will get you barred. It’s not an ego trip, it’s not a desperate struggle to keep the discussion one-sided, it is in fact a necessity. Enjoy.


  89. Dear Newcomer (80) and friends,

    You’ll find hundreds of good ones, but here you go:

    http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2006/04/16/fellowship-of-friends-a-cult-for-intellectuals/#comment-1649
    http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2006/04/16/fellowship-of-friends-a-cult-for-intellectuals/#comment-2467

    http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2006/04/16/fellowship-of-friends-a-cult-for-intellectuals/#comment-2560

    http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/03/01/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-2/#comment-2576
    http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/03/01/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-2/#comment-2714

    An old letter from Miles: http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-3/#comment-4166

    http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-3/#comment-4509
    http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-3/#comment-4058
    http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-3/#comment-4065
    http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-3/#comment-4136
    http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-3/#comment-4597

    WhaleRider:
    http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/04/28/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-8/#comment-9598

    Response to WhaleRider:
    http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/04/28/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-8/#comment-9659

    http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/04/28/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-8/#comment-9654

    http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/04/28/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-8/#comment-9786

    http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/04/20/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-7/#comment-7765
    http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/04/20/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-7/#comment-8110

    http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/04/20/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-7/#comment-7677

    Also, do a search for “Bruce” on each page. He offers a steady diet of zingers.


  90. To 82 Newcomer

    “Me and some friends who are members would be very gratefull if some of you who have been here from before can give us references of good posts.”

    Is this a genuine question? I am afraid you will have to find out for yourselves what’s “good” and what’s not, unless you want to ask someone to speed read the blog to extract a few good quotes. I enjoyed personal stories the most.
    Oh, and by the way, if you come accross a broken toaster, give it to Shelley, she would like to be the one to bring it to unoanimo.


  91. on June 7, 2007 at 1:02 am Ames Gilbert

    To Newcomer (#11-82): LOL referred to Cry Baby’s post, which was #2-206. In my opinion, this person is a good representative of the FOF “attack dogs”. An LOL by any other name is still an LOL. For more moderate representations of the FOF point of view, do a search for the name Siddiq. Unfortunately, there is no way I know of for a universal search; you’ll have to do a search within each section. For moderate views that question the FOF, I’d recommend folks like Joe Average, above. For great, almost poetical writing, do a search for Unianimo. Of course, I like to think that I have been using the powers of reason granted to me in my posts…

    Good luck!
    With love,
    Ames Gilbert


  92. To Newcomer,

    If you go to the sketchbook of the Fellowship of Friends you’ll find a selection of about a hundred. That’s just a small selection so far of what is worth reading.

    In fact if you find other things worth reading and post them there it would be very useful.


  93. Stoned Leprechauns: That is truly remarkable.

    Perhaps one last thought. If we truly are asleep then becoming awake is not simply a spiritual exercise. The Fellowship of Friends believes that the way to awaken is to acquire a permanent higher state in which sleep doesn’t exist. It remains to be verified whether such a permanent state exists and more importantly whether such a state truly does not contain any fragments of sleep/conditioning/prior programming. It’s a pretty big assumption.

    Other schools of thought believe that it is much more fruitful to realize how exactly one is conditioned/asleep so that one can start consciously changing oneself. This would be based solely on practice. While transcending the state of sleep temporarily may be fun, it does not grant any long-term benefits apart from those that we either choose to adopt (through being conscious of the process, already being awake), or those that we adopt unconsciously, ie. by allowing ourselves to be conditioned/programmed – not actually awaking from the state of sleep.

    One thing I despise the most is the ‘Work language’, it’s so limiting and makes us all look rather dumb.


  94. C here:

    Never without you.

    Love,
    A Hundred Thousand Angels


  95. In memoriam:

    Diane Foehringer 199? Vienna Center codirector


  96. Diana Foehringer = Diana Bolton


  97. “The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.”
    – Albert Einstein

    I was just surfing around on http://www.esotericfreedom.com (from Stoned Leprechauns in #90) and found the above quote. In case it’s not obvious to others, the site contains a lot of commentary on Robert Burton, the Fellowship of Friends, Alex Horn, and other related topics. Thanks for posting, S.L.


  98. Re:#90 Stoned Leprechauns

    This is amazing. I am deeply touched and shaken by the beauty, truth and sincerity of the former members of Sharon Gans and Alex Horn. I hope everyone reading this blog will visit the website posted on #90 and that somehow every current member of the FOF could also be informed about this. The parallels are unbelievable.


  99. Westbury Hotel, Manhattan

    These were some amazing times. We used to drive up from Philadelphia to spend a few hours in the big city. Joel, who I came to know a little and Sandra, such an enigma to me, being a new student, felt like close friends I had yet to meet. We were all right on the edge of something totally beyond our comprehension. Once, before a meeting in Manhattan, we arrived at the 87th street townhouse, maybe it was my first visit, I was cautiously walking around the place. Somebody introduced me to Miles. I was very surprised to see him leading the meeting a few hours later. These were the highest moments of my life to date.

    I write here now, from Oregon House, where I ‘ve been for the past 7 years. The beauty of the place surprises me. I’m not far from the General Store, I see the patrons pulling in and out. Locals going about their lives. The 2002 Ramey-Schulten port is working its magic.

    My wife is at Apollo D’oro having dinner. There was a meeting at the Galleria. I wonder who went, what was said, and realize nothing beats this fading twilight visible through the dual-pane windows of this 1971 mobile home.

    I’m so glad to know you are out there.


  100. on June 7, 2007 at 4:41 am Demi Moaned

    In re: The Departed

    One to add to the list is the delightful Mitchell Muth. He was a a joyous and generous person who comforted me greatly after my first departure from the FoF in September, 1982.

    Two I was surprised to see mentioned:

    1) Christopher Billings. My main connection to Christopher was when he was center director in Munich in the mid-80’s. I was in Frankfurt at roughly the same time. But I often travelled to Munich and stayed with him and his wonderful wife Maria. I liked going to the Bavarian State Opera.

    2) Katy Kudo. I lived with Katy for more than a year at the Baker Street house in San Francisco in the early 80’s. She went by the handle of Katherine Rose then. I nicknamed her ‘La Rosa’. We played at being Italianate at that house. Mainly this derived from Anthony Scelfo’s ethnicity and his great love of Italian Opera. But Jan Allen was the presiding genius of the house. We loved welcoming other students to the house for dinner or after-meeting coffee.

    These two were both slightly older than I. Yet, they died young if they are already gone.

    I’d love to hear more about either. Post here or send comments directly to:
    demimoand at yahoo dot com.

    (As an example of my other points I’ve been trying to post this comment intermittently for several hours now.)


  101. on June 7, 2007 at 5:56 am Rogue Pixel

    Cyclops,
    Your comments about Jews and Gays seem pretty incidental to the main stream of this blog. Might you, like LOL, have an idée fixe? I am familiar with this particular obsession, my own brother being one who never passes up an opportunity, natural or contrived, to rant about how, on the right hand, the Neocons and their puppet GWB have sold out the country to Israel and the international Jewish cabal and, on the left hand, how the Jewish intelligentsia from Marx on down the line (Georg Lukacs, the members of the Frankfurt School, Herbert Marcuse, et al.) have carefully planted and nurtured their Marxist ideological/political agenda in our schools and other social institutions in the form of cultural Marxism/political correctness. In short, the Jews run the world, according to my brother, and the rest of us (Gentiles) are just food for their moon. After his rants, I usually ask, well, if that is so, what can be inferred from that? Are Jews just more talented, intelligent, energetic, and wiser than the rest of us? Might they be, after all, God’s chosen people, as mentioned in the Old Testament? He doesn’t care for that possible explanation. (Do you?)
    A sad commentary on our times (and probably all times) is the almost universal tendency to categorize people into groups based on race, gender, ethnicity, religion, nationality, political party, socioeconomic class, degree of physical attractiveness, chronological age, ad nauseam, and then to pit one group against another, or one against all others. One group becomes the victimizer and the other, the victim. My group is right—yours is wrong, and I direct my sanctimonious negativity toward you (or vice-versa, in which case, I feel guilty/wrong). We have the One True School group and the “life people” group. We have the FOFers and the ex-FOFers. It seems as if we humans have arrived at some crisis point of separation/opposition psychosocially and that, if things proceed in this imbalanced direction, we will fragment into chaos. Or maybe some third force will enter at the breaking point and forge a new unity. Like your quotes, by the way, Cy.


  102. URGENT MESSAGE for Unianimo:

    Since you have not provided me with any satisfactory answers regarding the fate of my missing toaster, I resolved to take matters into my own hands. I have lately been missing my warm daily toast with my morning tea. So I pulled out and read the toaster manual (admittedly for the first time).

    To my astonishment, I found out that my particular model of new and improved trusty crusty toaster had embedded in it a ‘smart chip’, probably not unlike your Russian artist friend has, although for obviously different reasons. My toaster did not have a drinking problem. There was printed on the same page both a serial number and, in case of dematerialization, a phone number to call.

    Well, today I finally got up the nerve to make the call. The person at the other end of the line identified himself as Tao Chi Gung, english speaking representative of the Mitsudeeply Manufacturing Company of Shanghai, China. I explained to him about the mysterious disappearance of my trusty crusty toaster and gave him the serial number. I was promptly put on hold.

    For what seemed like eons later, he came back on, rustled some papers, and then put me back on hold. I was becoming impatient by now and in danger of losing all the hydrogen 12 that I had stored up from the day before, when finally he came back on the line.

    To my absolute shock, he informed me that the toaster was there sitting on his desk right in front of him. “In China? How could that beeee?” I asked. He asked me if I believed in a higher power. So I told him that sure, I believed in the Absolute as All and Everything in World 1 and the Ray of Creation, and the fact that mostly everyone on the planet, including the one supposed conscious being I once knew, are all pretty much completely hypnotized by sex, power, money or all of the above, and that if there was a higher power it has to come from within us. To which he replied, “That’s nice, dear.” The toaster had a message for me. “What????” I said. He graciously repeated himself for my disbelieving ears to hear again. The toaster was displaying a message, a flashing message on its little digital number screen that normally just displayed toasting time.

    Apparently, some toaster ‘smart chips’ had gotten mixed up at the silicon chip plant with a few similar-looking other chips containing a mysterious sequence of Artificial Intelligence code. And to my disbelief, he stated that some toasters have been reported as achieving conscious enlightenment in one toaster lifetime and have been disappearing and appearing all around the globe. Not bad for a machine, I thought to myself. Two attributes of conscious enlightenment are the abilities of dematerialization and teleportation and that’s how my toaster got there, he explained. They are able to navigate through portals in higher dimensions of time and space.

    “So what’s the message???” I asked. He said he didn’t quite understand it so he would fax it to me. I gave him my fax number and nervously awaited his fax, unsure if my fax machine had a ‘smart chip’ embedded in it, too.

    Finally the fax came. Please excuse the all caps, but this is what it said:

    TAKE ME APART PUT ME BACK TAKE ME APART PUT ME BACK TAKE ME APART PUT ME BACK TAKE ME APART PUT ME BACK TAKE ME APART PUT ME BACK TAKE ME APART PUT ME BACK TAKE ME APART PUT ME BACK TAKE ME APART PUT ME BACK

    I had to think about it. Was my toaster, having completed its role and now an enlightened being with amazing powers simply wanting to be disassembled, melted back down into its original elements, and placed back into the Earth from whence it came? Didn’t it want to go to the sun instead? And what about my toast?


  103. on June 7, 2007 at 7:31 am Comic Relief

    “Do Something. If it works, do more of it. If it doesn’t, do something else.” Franklin D. Roosevelt

    However:

    “It is easy to sit up and take notice, What is difficult is getting up and taking action.” Al Batt


  104. on June 7, 2007 at 8:04 am Demi Moaned

    Re: Gateway Timeouts

    Sorry for all the fuss. Finally figured out that it had to do with my proxy settings.


  105. on June 7, 2007 at 11:07 am Gabriella F.

    In Memoriam

    Giorgio Massini 1997? Milàn Center


  106. In Memoriam
    Herb Burstein (Phillip Kingsley) 1997
    Philadelphia Center


  107. Alleluhia!
    Many seemingly dead False Personalities resurrexit thanks to this blog!
    Alleluhia!

    GLORIA


  108. on June 7, 2007 at 12:40 pm More history needed?

    Dear All,

    About predictions: The day that “the 6 students”, were released in November on a Tuesday…”That was the day that California or The world would fall in the Ocean”. This was said by Robert Burton of the fellowship of friends in Egypt and was heard by Mrs T who was on the trip with him. So he seems to still “predict” for the fellowship of friends in a smaller circle but if you read the above details, it seems not to be taken to serious..6 people leaving the fellowship of friends, or the fall of California or the world…?

    Robert’s tendencies do not disappear obviously.

    Last year, around his birthday there was a gossip: Robert had given 100 people a blow job on that day. I thought this was not possible and discarded the idea. This year the same story appears, with a slight variation he did not reach the 100….? Can anybody give us more confirmation about this issue or is it only “gossip”? People who were part of it, or were called to come and join the 15 minute line?

    Thanks to all of you.


  109. on June 7, 2007 at 1:19 pm GOlb toward Inner Order

    Sheik, finally one post to consider: it seems that something moved inside your being.

    “If we truly are asleep then becoming awake is not simply a spiritual exercise.”

    It si truly fundamental to recognize what sleep is and to find ways to stay in the state of awakening. No Person (of course) is always awake to his own many ‘thoughts’ or ‘I’s whatever we want to call them. To be awake, present to them is to add at least one more dimension to our present state.

    “The Fellowship of Friends believes that the way to awaken is to acquire a permanent higher state in which sleep doesn’t exist. It remains to be verified whether such a permanent state exists and more importantly whether such a state truly does not contain any fragments of sleep/conditioning/prior programming. It’s a pretty big assumption.”

    Sheik, You are assuming that the FOF believe something that you may be don’t understand; however in this post you got closer.
    The Third State (the state in which WE are awake to the casualities or intentionalities of our inner world) is ADDED to the second state (which is ‘sleep’, in which the laws of causes and effect and accident take place at random in our inner world), and of course there are many degrees of this alchemy.
    For example: when observing yourself you can observe some kind of very hidden conditioning/prior programming coming from people that were acting around you when you were a child: and that is not You; when more awake you can have more relativity about what ‘your-machine-that-has-been-programmed-from-the-very-beginning-of-its-lifetime-by-external-circumstances’ actually is.
    To be permanently awake is to see every single thought (‘I’) for what it is. The ‘I’s will always be with us but when we are present to them (awake) there is another dimension present beyond the grey matter. The fragments of ‘sleep’ are always here but you are what observe them.
    This is the principle of what the School and esoteric work is all about, and the verifiaction of this (and till now I have verified that is not for all three-brained beings), without any ‘pretty big assumption’.

    “Other schools of thought believe that it is much more fruitful to realize how exactly one is conditioned/asleep so that one can start consciously changing oneself.”
    Sheik, this is the starting point of the FOURTH WAY as we know it.

    “This would be based solely on practice.”
    Sheik, this is the School work from the very, very beginning: hard work then.

    “While transcending the state of sleep temporarily may be fun, it does not grant any long-term benefits apart from those that we either choose to adopt (through being conscious of the process, already being awake), or those that we adopt unconsciously, ie. by allowing ourselves to be conditioned/programmed – not actually awaking from the state of sleep.”

    Sheik, ‘transcending the state of sleep temporarily’ is simply called ‘relative awakening’ and you are pretty right about all the rest that you say. That’s why real School work is about complete awakening, a very difficul task. Of course no person get it by himself with no effort all the time.

    “One thing I despise the most is the ‘Work language’, it’s so limiting and makes us all look rather dumb.”

    It is fine to place one’s own mind above the minds of Gurdjieff, Ouspensky and Collin and whatever force was beyond them.
    Of course I understand you prefer the ‘Blog language’: so vaste (w?)! That’s why you seem to stay with the Inner Confusion…. but it may change.

    sincerely respectful after this post of ‘you’.

    BOlg


  110. GOlb: Thanks for the lengthy reply. I am afraid though that ‘nothing has moved in my being’, my being seems to be pretty imovable no matter how much I try.

    Of course, I do hope to earn more of your respect with time.

    As to ‘Work language’ – as far as I know the language that is being used by the FoF is Ouspensky’s, not Gurdjieff’s. ‘Work language’ is limiting because it doesn’t allow for other definitions, for thinking outside of the box. It promotes stagnation and rigid thinking.

    And of course, there is no ‘blog language’ – there are no kings of clubs, lower selfs, machines and stewards.

    I am at it again, damn.


  111. Getting out the FOF was a process of choosing life over death.
    Literally.
    It is very hard for me to even begin to talk about it.
    Someday I will tell my story!
    But if you are still there in the School ask yourself if you are truly happy. If you find that you have not been happy for quite a long time then is time to watch out. Perhaps your soul you were trying to grow is actually dying.

    The “work” promotes very puritanical feelings on the subject of being happy and even healthy. This create such an inner division, in trying to go beyond our humanness, all that is concerned with the: body: is the evil instinctive center right?
    Be careful, because the split begins here, and maybe illness begins.


  112. on June 7, 2007 at 2:25 pm GOlb toward Inner Order

    “And of course, there is no ‘blog language’ – there are no kings of clubs, lower selfs, machines and stewards.

    I am at it again, damn.”

    …got you, hein? ;-) this is the first demonstration of the stymulus response machine we found ourSelf in: it also contains the attentively emotional seed of resisting itself for the sake of higher purposes (labeled steward), a kind of defensive reptilian attention device (labeled KoC) in a pretty reptilian, mammalian, dual grey mattery mess of imaginations and identifications(labeled Lower Self).

    That’s it for now. – Sorry all about the length of the previous post, wow, so easy to be lengthy: now I understand why so many…..

    Sympathetically,

    Inner Order Golb


  113. on June 7, 2007 at 2:52 pm Ames Gilbert

    To GOlb (#11-34)
    Most of your post is sheer imagination of the wrong kind, and a great demonstration of sleep while talking about being awake, or trying to give the impression thereof. Every affirmation you make for Burton is a lie, pure and simple. You have no idea why he made the predictions. All you can say, truthfully, is that he made them. You yourself may have used them (as I understand you to say—your meaning is rather unclear), that is, to provide personal friction, a sense of urgency. It is possible that Burton may have even meant this for the students generally. But, you cannot know, so you are lying. It sounds to me like you are repeating some meme that has sprung up among the faithful to justify Burton’s failures, because sentences like “It is the largest scale that demonstrates the value of things and the largest scale can be seen only from the present moment” are meaningless even after allowing for your poor language skills. The semantic content adds up to zero. You are also lying when you make another affirmation for Burton, “He didn’t care about the high possibility of the (repeated) failure.” First of all, there was no mention of the “high possibility” of failure when he made his predictions. You have added that yourself, based on your excellent hindsight. Secondly, you lie when you claim he didn’t care. You cannot know.

    Moving on. You didn’t answer the question, “What has ‘HE’ gained from repeated failing predictions in the long run?” The answer is, on the surface, “nothing”. That is the one you are fishing for. But I think there is a more subtle answer. Burton used the prediction to reinforce his image as a higher being/god, because prophecy (windows into the future) is one of the attributes or powers he thinks a higher being should have. Then he invited his followers to enter that fantasy with him. This was a step–by–step process, incremental. The objective was to gain power over his followers, because if they suspend their own judgment and ability to discriminate in favor of his version of reality, they become more dependent on him. A personal example: in 1993, Burton came up to me, pointed at his forehead and said, “Dear, do you see an eye here, looking out at you?”. I replied, “Do you mean literally, a third physical eye where your pineal gland is?”. He said, “Yes, I am looking out at you through a third eye, the eye of an angel. Do you see it?”. I asked again, “Do you mean literally a third eye, physically the same as your other eyes?”. He said, “Yes”. I replied, “No, Robert, I don’t see a literal third eye, all I can see is your forehead.” He said, “Well, I am an angel, there is a third eye looking out at you. Are you sure you can’t see it?”. I said, “I’m sorry, Robert, I don’t see it”. Then he turned away.
    I saw this as a clear invitation to enter his fantasy. It’s only a guess, but I’d say that many students would have gone with him into his fantasy, and said that they did see a literal third eye. I say this, because I watched others do exactly that on many occasions, either by actively accepting his invitation, or by silently acquiescing or not protesting; this happened very often at dinners, as he described his fantasies out loud in his monologues. Depending on the subject, the fantasy evoked either fear or infatuation, (either will send followers to sleep, but both are inimical to awakening and individuation).

    When the predictions fail, a student has at least two types of choices. They can follow Burton deeper into the fantasy (C-Influence has used this to humiliate me), make affirmations for him, like Golb and others in this blog, which just deepen the hypnosis, or buffer it completely, maybe with self-calming phrases like, “I’ll just record this as a theory”. Another set of choices might include re-evaluating the whole sorry mess, recognizing the weaknesses that led one to accept the fantasy, and backing out.

    So, to answer your final question, Golb, “Who has gained anything from them?”, I answer, “Robert Burton”. He has you fast, you think you are more real because you have adopted his fantasies, you are a good little follower who is blessed, you have a great collection of affirmations you trot out to help keep your fellows asleep on his behalf, and sayings for every occasion. He has your money and your adoration. He may even have the use of your body, for all I know. Multiply by 1900 or so. Sweet deal. For once, you’re certainly right, Burton is not a ‘stupid’—on that level.

    To various historical revisionists and Defenders of the Faith…
    Since you so appreciate the apt quote, and are quite willing to use the sayings of past wise persons (conveniently dead, so they can’t protest or correct you) to bolster your position, here’s one from Lao Tzu for your edification. “Those who have knowledge, don’t predict. Those who predict, don’t have knowledge.”

    With love to you, and everyone ‘on the blog’,
    Ames


  114. on June 7, 2007 at 3:05 pm wake up little suzy wake up

    I have to admit I am a great admirer of the movie ‘the Secret’, for the very reason it has become so popular and gives everyone, not just a select few, the ideas of the law of attraction. Yes, I agree that it emphasizes acquiring wealth and more ‘stuff’, but it also explains in a very simple form so that everyone can understand the law of attraction and the basics of quantum physics.

    What a gift for mankind that even the simplest of people can understand how we are responsible for what we create on this planet. And I think because this movie has become mainstream many more than just a select few people will begin to create what is needed for the planet to heal. I for one do not think it is any accident that this film is now well known to many. We need all the help we can to start creating a healthier planet and I feel the Secret becoming mainstream will and is helping many people that would never even have considered these ideas before watching it.

    Anyone interested in exploring the Law of Attraction in more depth, watch the Secret behind the Secret by Esther and Jerry Hicks.


  115. on June 7, 2007 at 3:08 pm Howard Carter

    Re: 2b,

    10/515,

    “Howard:
    Chopsticks did not ask you: “Why are there many different schools throughout history?”

    Nowhere in your answer do you address the connection between Self Remembering and cave drawings. But I can understand why you’d evade that one. Very difficult question to answer, isn’t it?”

    2b, Sometimes an answer is expressed in what is stated; and sometimes it can be expressed equally well by what is implied, though not actually stated. The latter approach can be missed if the reader is fixed on a certain kind of response.

    Re-reading my post (#10/390) I feel that Chopstick’s question regarding cave drawings was addressed. Nevertheless, here are a few quotes from RB that will shed some light on the issue:

    “The prehistoric tradition is the backbone of the esoteric.”

    “Schools are indifferent to the form of the message, which is why we are able to understand the prehistoric.”

    “A student asked why we are studying the prehistoric school, and I said that it is consistent with what we are doing – gathering the teachings of the schools before us.”


  116. “Getting out the FOF was a process of choosing life over death.
    Literally.
    It is very hard for me to even begin to talk about it.
    Someday I will tell my story!
    But if you are still there in the School ask yourself if you are truly happy. If you find that you have not been happy for quite a long time then is time to watch out. Perhaps your soul you were trying to grow is actually dying.

    The “work” promotes very puritanical feelings on the subject of being happy and even healthy. This create such an inner division, in trying to go beyond our humanness, all that is concerned with the: body: is the evil instinctive center right?
    Be careful, because the split begins here, and maybe illness begins.”

    Wow, this lady got everything upside down: no wonder she got out!
    LOL, please tell her something – politely this time – Thanks.

    Accumulation of Virtues


  117. on June 7, 2007 at 3:14 pm wake up little suzy wake up

    Whalerider #102: I loved your post! Made me laugh very hard.


  118. GOlb: You have misunderstood me for pehaps the fifth time (including your previous response to my previous comment). When writing ‘I am at it again, damn!’ I was refering to my numerous prior decisions to stay out of the discussion. My mouth and my nimble fingers get me in trouble all the time.


  119. on June 7, 2007 at 4:12 pm Another Name

    Dear Gloria,

    I looked in my old directory, who are you Gloria?
    Why this use of language…read it again….so much judgment? Or Am I not understanding you correctly?

    Many things are better left unsaid. You are hurting yourself more then any other person.

    This physical life is difficult enough, help and support in these times of “walls coming down” would be so appreciated.
    To my understanding there is a need of friends, a social network, helpful to each other through this time.

    Have you too much hurt inside of yourself…unresolved.

    Love to all of you.


  120. FOF’s Daily Card for Thursday, June 7, 2007:
    In Exodus God says to Moses, “I am that I am.” I am present, I am eternally present. Through the sequence you become what you are. Love,…

    COMMENT:
    Yes, eternally present. That means now; eternally now. And impersonal. Very well put by God to Mr. Moses.

    How can you become what you already are? How can the mind through some gymnastics become what is the source of the mind? Maybe donations? Shame on you Mr. R. for such a confusing message you constantly and consistently share in your kindergarten.


  121. To Rogue Pixel (101) and Cyclops,

    Both your posts were of much interest to me. While I enjoy Pixel’s photography of not focusing in on specific genders I would also ask you if we do not need to do this to pinpoint aspects of the problem, as Cyclops is doing. Not to do it, is like giving a photograph without telling the person who you’re photographing.

    We do come from different programming, nations, social backgrounds and they all have different qualities and disadvantages. Pinpointing any one of them is trying to expose something that has fallen from the ideal to the factual, and those exposed feel attacked. Something breaks off and a different awareness comes in.

    You say, “It seems as if we humans have arrived at some crisis point of separation/opposition psychosocially and that, if things proceed in this imbalanced direction, we will fragment into chaos. Or maybe some third force will enter at the breaking point and forge a new unity.”

    This “separation/opposition psychosocially” seems to be necessary to trim off the inhuman and consolidate the human and that the third force is the “divine human” that “will enter at the breaking point and forge a new unity.”

    From one angle, to me you are describing the process of second line that did not take place in the fellowship, which would have allowed us to deeply question and observed each other’s mechanics and work through them. Instead Robert imposed a form in which we simply behaved as if we had already acquired consciousness without going through the process. The value of that is not small because we got a very good view of what it is to let each other be.

    Isn’t it amazing that nothing really is lost? By imposing on us that we let him be, he still taught us to let each other be but by not allowing the process to happen as a group, it pushed the individual progress that we all acknowledge but not enough consciousness to develop a community with true human values.

    The question then is, do we pretend we already are without the process of becoming or do we go through the necessary sculpting of each other’s being and become?

    Those that pretend they already ARE, think they can live the process of awakening on their own and hold to individualistic patterns. They, like Robert, think they do not need to work with others, be questioned or balanced. They would do well in a fakir path that would bring out of them the necessary will to awaken. On the other hand, those that understand that they need the presence of others for their own sculpting are willing to submit to other’s trimming and then allow the thorough look at every single one of their functions: sex, instincts, movements, emotions, thoughts, which are the screws that need tightening to balance the being within. They are willing to acknowledge that the external world is a sculpting force of their inner being. If the social standards are high enough, the individual human being develops his consciousness. If the individual is conscious enough, his social behavior keeps and supports high social standards. The center and the periphery balance each other through friction, pulling each other’s strings.

    It seems that the feminine dominance used in the Fellowship of Friends to avoid questioning each other is the same lack of feminine dominance that we could use to “look” at each other without questioning each other. Looking without judgement but with discrimination. As long as we could hold the divine at the other end of the inhuman, we would be able to tune the inhuman into the human. But we’ll never come even close if we continue to treat the inhuman as if it were human, which is what the Fellowship pretends to do when it condones Robert’s abuse of young men and still holds him as a conscious being.

    The way a man makes love is no different to the way he moves in traffic. It is no wonder that Robert cannot talk to any one student when he also cannot make love. Having sex and not acknowledging anyone, are on equal ground.

    To the Sheik,
    Please forgive the continued use of work language and fellowship language. If there’s anything you would like to have cleared, I’d be happy to make it more accessible but there are things that have been understood after years of practicing them that would require my posts to be four or six pages long, if I were to try to explain them in regular language.

    I will nevertheless continue to try to stay short.

    Thank you Vera.mente for your post and whalerider for your fine humor. Demi Moaned for your history on students and Sam 1 for sharing your state.


  122. To Ames and Gold and all of us,

    I have read your posts about predictions with interest. From my perspective I have seen Robert being 100% sincere in his predictions, he made them because he had no choice–this is how he really saw things. (the predictions play no longer the role they did, and that is fine–I agree with Vena, on the Wiki this should not be “rewritten” –I am sure it can and will be corrected in due course).

    I can see Golb’s description as a 100% sincere description of how a student may work with this area. And Ames is 100% sincere, I have zero doubt, when he writes how he sees it and how some experiences were received.

    Standing “behind” (not beyond) Robert and looking through his eyes as well as my own, throughout the prediction times, there is no contradiction for me any longer, just different parts of my being looking, or trying to. and who is not glad that these events did not take place?

    From one point of view, it matters little whether you act from your highest level of understanding or from “instruction of Influence C” because ultimately they are one and the same.

    As long as we do our best in whatever path we choose, we must ascend.

    So what has Robert gained? A great deal in my view, the School would not be what it is, if he had not gone through this phase (and he went whole heartedly throughout the process)–it takes living in a new way to understand why our plays are necessary at all. It may sound circular, but if we did not have to go through what we have gone through there would not be a need at all to live. Some of the external “gathering and preparing” has become an internal effort.

    My very best to All,

    Siddiq


  123. To Happines,

    This lady got out because of people like you who present a smile from ear to ear and then do nothing but criticize and look hard on others that are not playing at your dogmatic idolatry and then ask other’s to put her down even more than you.

    Your work on negative emotions is about as high as your level of presence.


  124. on June 7, 2007 at 4:47 pm You-me-us-they

    To Bruce, post 78

    “#75, Crawl back under your rock with your reptilian friends cyclops. I doubt anyone here wants to read that kind of moronic shit.”

    That is simply not gracious formulation!

    What disturbed you so badly ?

    Your opinion, as valid as any, could only interest me and others.

    But such a judgment?
    I doubt anyone here wants to read that kind of… judgment.

    For myself, I keep the evidence (Et Vie Danse)
    of “sculpting light” as a necessity.

    Gratitude.


  125. on June 7, 2007 at 4:53 pm Skeptical Optimist

    10/418:

    Howard Carter said:
    It’s fine that the FoF is labeled a cult by people who share your sentiment about it, regardless that it fails any number of “litmus tests” for cults.

    You sound like you’ve actually researched this, which I doubt. Please say how the FoF is not a cult, I’d love to hear it.

    . . .

    Howard, I’m still waiting for your response.

    JoelF


  126. on June 7, 2007 at 5:02 pm Skeptical Optimist

    123 “Siddiq”
    From one point of view, it matters little whether you act from your highest level of understanding or from “instruction of Influence C” because ultimately they are one and the same.

    Here, in a nutshell, is the most profound error one can make, and that many have made, including myself in past years.

    I’m going to have a little “moment of silence” here at my desk for “Siddiq,” whoever it is, because he has (hopefully temporarily) lost the thread of connection to his inner truth, and handed it over to Burton.

    JoelF


  127. I like the new format, thank you Sheik for providing this.

    #14 Joe Average

    Beautifully articulated post, cuts to the core regarding both weaknesses and strengths of the FOF, illuminates the tragic/comic situation of insistence on retaining the imaginary concept of eternally persistent individuality, while the actual practices keep lifting the veils. Very moving. Thanks!

    From the wonderful curmudgeonly H.L. Mencken:

    Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.


  128. It’s called anti-semitism, j.o.


  129. on June 7, 2007 at 5:03 pm Walter Tanner

    Fellow Travelers,

    If it is true that Fellowship officials are trying to re-cast Robert’s failed prophecies as somehow metaphorical, then they are truly the hypocritical cronies some make them out to be.

    I was living at Apollo Spring-Summer 1998 when California was to fall into the Sea. Most students who could stored up food, installed water tanks, bought generators…the guy I lived with even got a hydraulic jack in case his house (on a hill) collapsed! I personally knew one individual who nearly bankrupted his family with his “preparations.” Luckily his wife had a good job.

    Students in Sacramento, San Francisco and Los Angeles got “out of town” for a particular two-week period–I don’t recall the exact dates–that Robert said were the most likely times. At the company where I worked (in Oregon House), sales trips were also cancelled at this time.

    It was a level of madness, but hey, there are earthquakes in California and it never hurts to have some food stored away. So I contributed to the house food fund, but the only other “preparation” I made was to buy a nice combo mountain-touring bike.

    When it didn’t happen Robert was just confused as to why C influence would trick him in this manner. The most sophisticated Fellowship theologians (I consider myself in the category) said it was obviously some divinely given “suffering” for Robert’s higher centers to transform.

    So no more talk that anything was taken metaphorical. Maybe privately by certain folks, but everyone’s public face was making “preparations.”

    walter.tanner@gmail.com

    PS: There are different “generations” within the Fellowship. Of all those people in the memorial weekend photos, I only know one. As I learned when I was a student myself in the 90’s, the 70’s and 80’s were a lot more uptight and “cultish,” and Robert’s exploits a bit more creative (There used to be “Symposiums,” I understand, with ridiculous amounts of wine. Sorry to have missed that.)

    I came in as the homosexuality exercise was lifted, and I left after all traces of any sex exercise were lifted. (I traveled to Paris, Nice, Italy and Slovenia and was able to announce the lifting of the sex exercise in my role as “traveling teacher.” Didn’t get laid, though)

    So what I’m basically saying is that by my time things were a lot groovier, there was no “hell” language, the Fellowship had kind-of grown up. A lot of the hostility, which may be absolutely legitimate, does come from the “first” generations of the Fellowship, and I think to identify to closely with their arguments will blind one to the fact the Fellowship has changed in the past and could absolutely do so in the future.


  130. In Memoriam:

    Giorgio Massini

    Roberto Piccoli

    Marco Colombo

    Milan Center


  131. Guys, we have a saying in Russian : “Don’t spit in the water well because one day you might need a drink from it.”
    I would suggest to current members who tend to “spit” at ex-members: one day you just may become an ex-member too, so please don’t judge ex-members from your current “conscious” pedestal.
    I know each of us thought that we’ll never, ever leave our beloved precious school. I sincerely thought so too, and I can bet that many ex-students thought so while being students. But life does to us what it does, it moves us in ways we can’t forsee. One day for whatever reason you just may find yourself out of school, slightly surprised or embarrased or heartbroken.
    And often you’ll discover that current members will coldly “dump” you, and cancel the friendship of many years just because you’ve left the organization they belong to.
    And you may humbly discover that it’s ex-members who will actually accept and support you, because we understand, we feel, we all have been through it. We will not even hold the grudge against you. The same exact people you are now calling loosers, idiots, false personalities, asleep victims, old wrinkled hippies, swine etc etc.
    Please be kind, be nice, and don’t spit in a water well. Because you never know. ;)


  132. the Esoteric Sheik of Inner Confusion says: #111/11

    >As to ‘Work language’ – as far as I know the language that is being used by the FoF is Ouspensky’s, not Gurdjieff’s. ‘Work language’ is limiting because it doesn’t allow for other definitions, for thinking outside of the box. It promotes stagnation and rigid thinking.

    G. I. Gurdjieff:

    “People do not notice all these contradictions, do not notice that they never understand one another, that they always speak about different things. It is quite clear that, for proper study, for an exact exchange of thoughts, an exact language is necessary, which would make it possible to establish what a man actually means, would include an indication of the point of view from which a given concept is taken and determine the center of gravity of this concept.

    >And of course, there is no ‘blog language’ – there are no kings of clubs…

    There is a will in the machine that can still all the distractions, it can cut through all the chattering buffers and see the intent of the law of accident as it hunts men along the streets like the passing drifts of a calamity-infuse fog. There is a will in the machine that can silence all the glad sentimentality and peer through the wilderness of time looking for that potential moment when the attention lapses and disaster takes over. Fools laugh, it can’t be done they assure one another, and anyway it is against our religion to stretch the eyes into the darkness of the oncoming unknown. Those unpracticed in the art of hearing the distance, in feeling the echoes, unpracticed in seeing the minds of men opened across the miles, always fear those with these piercing eyes, this look of cold calculation. Then they warm themselves with their cheerful prayers and tell one another tales about how the evil-lookers will all perish in Hell. Their pathetic superstitions make them even more vulnerable to the x-ray gaze of the astute pinholes that see the reddened radiation of hostility wafting off the tops of malicious minds. But it isn’t logical, speaks the thinker to the confused crowd gathered to hear reassuring lectures against ancient witchdoctor tactics. The villagers are frightened by the darkness of the unknown while the loner thrives on that unlimited cloak of the night. The villagers peer from their fires into the shadows and say to themselves, there’s nothing there, nothing there, but the loner always understands that there is something there, hidden, unseen, waiting. There is a mind in the machine that can know the direction of events, events that bring sudden shocks, before they ever happen. There is a will in the machine that can touch the weakened organs of a man’s enemies and tilt the scales of illness against them, there is a will that can wish misfortune on distant intruders and bring them disaster. Just as it can curse it can protect, just as it can project disease it can heal. There is a will in the machine that reads the angry intentions of others as their secret conversations radio through the surroundings and catches their plans before they even hatch them. There is a witchdoctor’s mind in the machine, a healer if need be, a defender through clairvoyance and killer through the projection of aggressive vibrations. This power of magnetic sight never belongs to the greedy, to the overpowering, to the malicious, to the egomaniacs, all these perversions supercede this ability with leaden logic, with identification. The ancient magnetic sight ignores logic and only functions without identification. Those with the receptivity of the intellectual story of the instinctive center always walk down the streets of this world alone, unsocialized, and invisible to the average laws of most men.

    The intellectual story of the instinctive center is that intelligence within man that nature developed so that he might survive the wild over that period of time before civilization and the subsequent invention of Christian benevolence. A primitive points his face into the wind and senses the oncoming storm yet a hundred miles distant. A primitive walks across heated sand, suddenly points at a shrub and within a few feet of the surface there is water. A primitive gazes out over the rolling ripples of a stream, watches the pattern of moving water seemingly random and chaotic over the gleaming surface and somehow knows where the fish are hiding. The primitives gather with the tribesmen in the predawn to set out on a hunting party, suddenly a feeling comes over one of them, he councils that today is not a good day to hunt. His tribesmen deride him, they challenge his courage, still he will not go with them and none of them ever return to camp. The intellectual story of the instinctive center can somehow detect the magnetic waves that are a precursor to danger. Many animals have this ability, often before severe weather, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, flash floods, any number of possible calamities, the birds and other animals will somehow be gone, the woods suddenly silent the day before. The intellectual story of the instinctive center calculates for denying force in the aim to survive. The intellectual story of the instinctive center stores resources for times of less fortune, it envisions advanced and effective weapons that will prove a superior element when enemies inevitably attack. This function discovers natural, chemical and technological cures for all injuries, maladies and diseases. The intellectual story of the instinctive center is the healer and the survivalist.

    It is the intellectual story of the instinctive center that can extend sensory awareness down along the spine and then throughout the entire body, so that something in the man senses his entire physical organism all at once, this function is indispensable in the effort to self-remember. During self-remembering the psychology of a man makes the effort to unite the emotional center, the intellectual center, the moving and the instinctive center into one single function that perceives with the quickness of the higher portion of the emotional center, in this state emotions produce sensations, sensations produce thoughts and thoughts produce motions. Here it is possible to connect with the higher centers, at this unified juncture of the four lower centers. A man’s emotions are the product of electrical impulses jumping across physical nerve cells, the same with his thoughts, the intellectual story of the instinctive center can actually witness this physical activity, it can sense it happening, and it can supply finer hydrogens stored in the accumulators of the body to energize these emotions and these thoughts enough that all three functions ignite the higher emotional center. The intentional concentration of the intellectual story of the instinctive center can search through the tissues of the brain and other organs, through the muscles and bones, relieving tension and balancing the overall energy of the physical vehicle, so much so that suddenly the centers balance and connect with the higher centers.

    complete_attention@yahoo.com


  133. on June 7, 2007 at 5:50 pm Comic Relief

    Q: How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg?

    A: Four.

    Calling a tail a leg doesn’t make it a leg.

    Abraham Lincoln


  134. “119 the Esoteric Sheik of Inner Confusion
    GOlb: You have misunderstood me for pehaps the fifth time (including your previous response to my previous comment). When writing ‘I am at it again, damn!’ I was refering to my numerous prior decisions to stay out of the discussion. My mouth and my nimble fingers get me in trouble all the time.”

    No misunderstanding Sheik, that’s exactly what I meant: not unified stymulus response machines we are: one ‘I’ ‘wants’ to do something and ten other ‘I’s ‘do’ something else. That is what is meant by sleep! Don’t worry: it is the commonest problem.

    Greetings,
    Golb


  135. Walter Tanner #130/11

    “So what I’m basically saying is that by my time things were a lot groovier, there was no “hell” language, the Fellowship had kind-of grown up. A lot of the hostility, which may be absolutely legitimate, does come from the “first” generations of the Fellowship, and I think to identify to closely with their arguments will blind one to the fact the Fellowship has changed in the past and could absolutely do so in the future.”

    And yet on this blog there are reports of women getting kicked out because of their sexual activities (a three-way), people being kicked out because of “vulgar” notes to Burton (explaining sexual activity) and people getting kicked out because they have been “infested with B influence viruses.” It is the same old control-freak nonsense. This is not a “conscious teaching” it is a cult completely under the law of accident while generally directed by Burton’s sexual drives, his greed, his mental illness and his B influence imaginations. He is not conscious.


  136. I know this is not the function of the blog, but could someone help me with Karl Mautz telephone number? I’m trying to rent my place and need him urgently!


  137. Walter Tanner (130): Speaking of the Fellowship of Friends wikipedia page, all references to lawsuits again Robert Burton have been removed from the page. The link to this blog remains, but for how long?

    There’s no doubt that these editors are diligently trying to remove all of the negative information, sentence by sentence.


  138. #137 It’s listed in Nevada City.


  139. The King of Clubs: I skipped your reply after the first couple of sentences, if you wrote anything important please write me a summary.


  140. the Esoteric Sheik of Inner Confusion 140/11

    The King of Clubs: I skipped your reply after the first couple of sentences,

    ____________

    Then you deserve to be very pleased with yourself.


  141. Thank you Bruce, but I don’t have a directory with me, could you or anyone possibly sent it to me to ludotekaat succeed.net?

    Thank you


  142. on June 7, 2007 at 7:01 pm Another Name

    Dear All

    Reading the following website and tears are flowing. THERE IS NO CONNECTION BETWEEN the fellowship of friends, Robert Burton and the 4 way teachings. Read for yourself. The story: “about love”, tipped the scale.

    Be brave…all who find it difficult to See, Hear and digest the fact that we all over ruled some inner voices, who knew that something was not complete right. Who followed exercises that were against our heart, our conscience? Mourning, grieving has never been so much and I have seen many people leave this earth including family. the difference in my process that I had no regrets, all was said and shared. Now many regrets are ripping in my heart, the biggest one I DID NOT LISTEN TO MY HEART AND CONSCIENCE.

    Boy, does this hurts and as Gloria Gaynor says: I WILL SURVIVE.

    http://www.esotericfreedom.com


  143. on June 7, 2007 at 7:04 pm Walter Tanner

    Hey King of Clubs,

    You say: “It [the FOF] is the same old control-freak nonsense. This is not a “conscious teaching” it is a cult completely under the law of accident while generally directed by Burton’s sexual drives, his greed, his mental illness and his B influence imaginations. He is not conscious.”

    I think this is an absolutely rational understanding of what’s going on, but is it not also possible that on top of all this RB is awake, some of his students are awake, and enterprising students of the sly path may get something through the effort?

    Since leaving the FOF I’ve met the Pentland people, WP Patterson’s people, they all come across with the same “intentional” affectations that I learned so well with Robert (noting background noises, slow movements, deliberate speech).

    The whole lineage thing is so ridiculous. I’ve looked at the ex-Horn website and I’m ecstatic that my 4th Way lineage goes back to a guy who basically picked up the System on the fly – that’s the kind of effort Gurdjieff would have appreciated.

    For Christ’s sake, Paul never met Jesus, Rumi never met Mohammad — the esoteric truth, C Influence, whatever you want to call it, is hiding all around you in plain sight. Nobody’s got it hoarded and trust no-one who says they’ve got it.

    To theologically hair split: orthodox 4th way teaching–like Roman Catholicism and Tibetan Buddhism–insists that you can only progress spiritually with the help of a lineage-holder. I have repudiated that article of dogma, the historical counter-examples are too many to mention. I am a Protest-ant, and I will have my own relationship to the divine, thank you. I am not naïve or dismissive as to Robert Burton’s contribution to my current relationship with the divine (there’s heavy guru/chela karma, always), but my current pathless wanderings don’t have much to do with the Fellowship anymore.

    walter.tanner@gmail.com

    P.S. IN MEMORIAM
    I’ll never forget the skinny, blonde, solar-saturnine, gay older student (he joined in the 70’s) named Phillip or Phillipe, forget his last name. He died of AIDS in the nineties and his final scenes with the school were not pretty (he got dementia and Robert never really liked him because of the competition, I think he got thrown out in the end when he was terminally ill). Anyway, if someone remembers his full name, he should be digitally remembered in this forum.

    And also I used to work for this guy who was a matador in the message board world. I think he is still in the FOF, are you out there posting?


  144. Re: 11/82 Newcomer:

    Here is a SHORT GUIDE TO THE BLOG:

    I posted it on the About page (go to the top of this page and click About, then scroll down).


  145. Thank you King of Clubs for your beautifully written post and your insights.


  146. Dear Joel,

    If my simple post lead to is a moment of silence for you, then it is already worth it. I was talking not about accepting someone else’s edict of C influence, but my own understanding of what higher forces aim to show me in my life.

    Thanks for responding. Supporting a teacher does not mean losing common sense, sense of truth, or abdicating personal responsibility–quite the opposite–these concepts are to be taken psychologically.

    Best to all

    Siddiq


  147. Hey Walter, do you want go out for a drink together?

    Were you thinking of Philip McGuire?

    Friendly,
    GOlb


  148. “Dear Joel,

    If my simple post lead to is a moment of silence for you, then it is already worth it.”

    What? Joel gave up the crosswords on the NYTimes for a moment? :-)


  149. To Walter, #144

    Your contributions much appreciated.

    I think the rumors of the demise of PMG, the tall fellow you remembered, may be “greatly exaggerated”. I have it from another source that he still alive and apparently well (as in much better). The rest of the story is the way I remember it, too.


  150. Yes, Walter –

    In Memoriam Phillipe McGuire.

    That one made me weep (got me a *big* photograph from RB on the phone (in person, for a change, made me feel terribly important) ). Phillipe often made my heart smile.


  151. Opus 111 – if Phillipe is still alive, that’s cause for rejoicing. I hope so.


  152. on June 7, 2007 at 7:52 pm for the Best

    Walter #144

    I think you are speaking of Philip Mc Guire. He came back to Paris after being thrown out.

    To my knowledge he was seen 3 o r 4 years ago by a fellow friend here in this same city….. on a bicycle.

    A. K.


  153. on June 7, 2007 at 8:06 pm Walter Tanner

    Yeah! Phillip McGuire. Thanks.

    GOlb: Drop me a line, I’m in San Francisco but the terms of my parole allow me to visit all Bay Area counties!

    walter.tanner@gmail.com


  154. Walter T. (144): “I think this is an absolutely rational understanding of what’s going on [referring to a comment that RB is not conscious, and that the fof is guided by RB’s “sexual drives, his greed, his mental illness”], but is it not also possible that on top of all this RB is awake, some of his students are awake, and enterprising students of the sly path may get something through the effort?”

    This is not a new point of view, or a new way of thinking about Robert Burton and the FOF. We’ve all considered that — in fact, we spent years considering it. That’s exactly why many of us stayed with the program for as long as we did despite all of the serious concerns we had about RB’s behavior. In fact, the idea is built into the group think and the mind control… i.e., “If you are tossed a life preserver, you don’t question it.” But what if the life preserver is no life preserver at all — but a heavy weight that makes it even more difficult to “survive”?

    It may appear wise to adopt a moderate viewpoint on these topics (i.e., if someone were to say, “Robert may still be conscious despite what’s occuring in the FOF”), but it’s interesting that adopting a moderate viewpoint on these things is exactly what prevented many of from leaving the Fellowship.

    So, add the encouragement of “moderate thinking” to the list of mind control techniques.


  155. Walter T, I forgot to mention… About your comment regarding lineage to Ouspensky and Gurdjieff, I partially agree with you. Lineage is not the biggest concern that I ever had when I was a member. However, I think the issue is more the misrepresentation of the lineage. If RB and the FOF are pretending to be connected to Gurdjieff, then it’s a lie. The question is, why lie about it? Answer: it helps recruitment, and it tends to legitamize an organization that many believe is not legitimate.

    So if people object to these claims of lineage, I listen closely. It may not have been “the” issue that precipitated my departure from the fellowship, but it’s yet another odd twist to this entire saga — the spreading of lies, and covering up of the truth.


  156. Walter Tanner #144/11
    >Hey King of Clubs,

    >You say: “It [the FOF] is the same old control-freak nonsense. This is not a “conscious teaching” it is a cult completely under the law of accident while generally directed by Burton’s sexual drives, his greed, his mental illness and his B influence imaginations. He is not conscious.”

    >I think this is an absolutely rational understanding of what’s going on, but is it not also possible that on top of all this RB is awake, some of his students are awake, and enterprising students of the sly path may get something through the effort?

    Can a man or a group of men be controlled by their identifications and be conscious?

    >Since leaving the FOF I’ve met the Pentland people, WP Patterson’s people, they all come across with the same “intentional” affectations that I learned so well with Robert (noting background noises, slow movements, deliberate speech).

    Horn was probably a student of Pentland (as is claimed by the FOF and denied by the G. Foundation), as anyone that has been in both places realizes. The underlying psychological atmosphere is too similar not to be directly connected. Gurdjieff’s power feature distorted the Fourth Way teaching as it now reappears in the West and that tainted element is a permanent part of the octave. He was another control freak.


  157. K of C.: “Horn was probably a student of Pentland (as is claimed by the FOF and denied by the G. Foundation), as anyone that has been in both places realizes.”

    This suggests otherwise:

    http://www.esotericfreedom.com/Lineage.html


  158. Elena #146/11

    >Thank you King of Clubs for your beautifully written post and your insights.

    Was it actually worth something to you or are you just being nice because of the dismissive comments from the blog operator? If you heard something then it was worth the effort, though I wrote it some time ago. I would add that the king of clubs, though my center of gravity, is not the main focus of my work on myself.

    Is “succeed.net” owned or operated by FOF students?


  159. on June 7, 2007 at 9:33 pm Lust for Life

    Newcomer # 82 – I would definately recommend all the posts by “Lust for Life”!

    Seriously… the blog is a hotchpotch of thoughts from a variety of people… why do you want others recommendations? What is it in us that wants to be led and shown by someone else what to think, approve of, agree with, believe and do?

    What is it in us that makes it so hard to SEE for ourselves?

    Underneath the shallow ‘conditioning’, we are all the same! You will not miss any ultimate secret by not reading any specific posts. You are as close to the ‘truth’ as anyone else here…just look and see how much innate intelligence you have (different from thought) and stop referring to others for it otherwise you are avoiding what you seek. Let go of any desire for truth, immortality, higher states or any other ideas you have been fed as well as the desire to be safe and secure, and trust in your sense of what is right and good.

    lifereveller@yahoo.co.uk


  160. on June 7, 2007 at 9:43 pm Comic Relief

    The Value of the Blog:
    “We find comfort among those who agree with us–growth among those who don’t.” Frank A. Clark

    The Wisdom of the Blog:
    “The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple.” Oscar Wilde

    Slogan of the True Believer:
    “Never give up and never face the facts.” Ruth Gordon

    Possible Slogan for ex FoF members:
    “Abraham Lincoln was great, not because he once lived in a cabin, but because he got out of it.”

    Lessons from the story of the FoF:
    “Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.” Abraham Lincoln
    “A man’s conscience tells him what he shouldn’t do – but it does not keep him from doing it.”

    Possible Benefits of being Awake or Enlightened:
    “A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do.” Bob Dylan
    “A bird doesn’t sing because it has an answer, it sings because it has a song.” Maya Angelou

    The FoF Whitewash on Wikipedia:
    “Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.” George Orwell


  161. 2b #158/11

    >K of C.: “Horn was probably a student of Pentland (as is claimed by the FOF and denied by the G. Foundation), as anyone that has been in both places realizes.”

    >This suggests otherwise:

    http://www.esotericfreedom.com/Lineage.html

    “As of the moment I type these characters, I believe that a Pentland-Horn connection was minimal–so tenuous that no connection in the sense of lineage existed.” –Henry Korman

    For that matter Pentland himself had a tenuous connection to Gurdjieff. Pentland was a student of Peter Ouspensky for 12 years and only met Gurdjieff for a few months during the period when G. was very sick and dying. Pentland’s connection to Gurdjieff’s direct teaching was through G.’s mistress Jeanne de Salzmann (noted for later rewriting “All and Everything” in order to improve it).


  162. Hi Walter
    “is it not also possible that on top of all this RB is awake, some of his students are awake, and enterprising students of the sly path may get something through the effort?”

    Of course, RB COULD be ‘awake’…so COULD some other members of the Burton group. So COULD be anyone — say, Charles Manson. He made outlandish claims about himself and set himself up as a prophet too and had very devoted groupies.

    Comic Relief – always enjoy reading your posts. You quoted: Abraham Lincoln
    “A man’s conscience tells him what he shouldn’t do – but it does not keep him from doing it.”

    Interesting, don’t you think? What do you make of it? What Does ‘keep him from doing it’? There was a fascinating post on guilt (actually a couple) on a previous page – I wonder if there is a key in a person’s relationship with their own experience of guilt. Would that poster please make a comment?


  163. When I was first presented with 4th way ideas some years ago it’s been said that is it a “shortcut” to awakening comparing to other traditional ways: monk, yogi and fakir. It was called the “sly man’s way”. I was fascinated with the system. It seems that at the time it was first introduced to the West by Gourdjieff it appeared to be the fastest, smartest, revolutionary way to “know thyself”. May be it was truly a shortcut then, I don’t know.
    It’s been almost a century since the “fragments of unknown teaching” were brought to the westerners. A lot has been presented ever since! And lately (last 10 or so years) some very efficient new “shortcuts” are being available in the West for those interested in “awakening”. I understand the skepticism – most of us are naturally suspicious of new things, aren’t we? But new is not necessarily bad, it often works better.
    The System (especially after Robert butchered and distorted it) simply may not be a “shortcut” anymore compared to other approaches to self-realization available now. Robert’s teaching may not even be a valid “road sign” at this point. It sure doesn’t sound to me as a good shortcut when the teacher himself says that it will take lifetimes to get to enlightenment. How does one even know that there will be some “lifetimes”? And what if it’s just not so – wow, what a costly mistake… Why would one want to wait and still suffer this lifetime? Why wouldn’t one give a try for something else, after all what’s there to loose?
    You can compare this to modern technology – there are slow old-fashioned ways of achieving certain results by hand, or exact same result can be achieved much faster, better and more efficient by computers or newer equipment. Moving towards efficiency and speed seem to be natural tendency occurring in the world, even in nature. There are newer medicines, new vehicles, new theories, discoveries and new spiritual ways. It is nostalgic and kind of sweet to do things in a slow old-fashioned way, but if you are looking to efficiently achieve results – it might be better to research for a newer more progressive ways. Don’t just assume that there are no other ways! Robert tells this to his students because he has to keep the business going, he needs the customers. He lives off the school, it pays for his lifestyle. It’s obvious and completely understandable, it’s a money thing and it’s OK. But just don’t believe him that his way is the only Way! Please do some research, ask, look for yourself. Just because you haven’t looked it doesn’t mean there is “nothing out there” – this is just your fear talking. Don’t waste your life away.
    If you are still sincerely interested in spiritual progress but feel that something is not working in this school – don’t just sit there for years, depressed and frustrated, don’t bash your head against the same wall. May be it’s the “tool” itself that is faulty or inefficient after all, and not your lack of sincere efforts. Go do some research and see what else is available today. Ask friends, read online reviews, meet new people. There are very efficient new approaches available that actually do “work”. I say it with confidence, from own very positive experience. There are quite a few new approaches, and one may just “do it” for you. Give something else a try! It may just work. And I am not speaking only about “advaita”approach, although I do find non-dual teaching a very precise and effective one.
    Certainly, if the good old “Robert’s shortcut” is still working for you – then it’s perfectly fine. Please enjoy a slow comfortable multi-life-time ride to the present moment, may you finally arrive where you hope to arrive. It’s ridiculously over-priced compared to newer ways (often they are almost free), but –hey, “If you are getting what you’re paying for” – it’s all absolutely perfect.


  164. on June 7, 2007 at 10:22 pm Walter Tanner

    2b: “So, add the encouragement of “moderate thinking” to the list of mind control techniques.”

    I take your point. Just was trying to clearly separate “spiritual development” with “moral development.” If what you want is to be in a higher state of consciousness, there are methods for doing so. If you want to be a good person, there are methods for doing so. They are not causally connected.

    This was hard for me to swallow, but got driven home by one of the best teachers I’ve had, Jeffrey Kripal, a professor of the history of religions at Rice. His first book, Kali’s Child, was a takedown of Ramakrishna. If you actually read the Bengali diaries–not the redacted versions from his devotees–turns out ol’ Ramakrishna liked the boys, as in children. He was secretly a tantrika and would regularly do rituals with young children.

    Another great book is by Stephen Butterfield called Double Mirror: A Skeptical Journey into Buddhist Tantra. It takes on Chongyam Trungpa as the womanizing, heavy-drinking and fighting guy he was. Its also an interesting read for FOFers, in how closely Trungpa’s intentional communities sound just like Apollo/Isis. Guess its all the same with a charismatic sex-a-holic at the top.

    And of course Gurdjieff was an asshole. So here are three pretty realized beings, all with extensive following today, and they were all pricks. So when King of Clubs asks “Can a man or a group of men be controlled by their identifications and be conscious?” the answer is yes, if you think Ramakrishna, Chongyam Trungpa or Gurdjieff were conscious and you think, say, alcoholism is an “identification” (it sure seemed to control G, O, and Trungpa).

    The FOF dogma that “consciousness is not functions” is claptrap that gets us to thinking that an enlightened being is somehow divorced from everyday urges and bodily desires. This is ridiculous. Current thinking in philosophical theology is very interested in “embodied spirituality,” to counteract the body-hating religions like modern evangelical Christianity.

    And, oh, Jeff Kripal has just published Esalen: The Religion of No Religion, documenting the history of a pagan monastery/resort where much of this embodied spirituality first took root.

    walter.tanner@gmail.com

    P.S. KoC, thanks for the Pentland/Gurdjieff bit o’ knowledge. I’d thought (but it was probably WPPatterson propoganda) that Gurdjieff gave Pentland the American franchise….


  165. dear friends all .
    Are you standing uncomfortably and sort of taken up by something or other?
    First to those of you who doubt rb,s excesses.
    I have reason to believe that most of it is true, because if one makes a logical progression from the way things were when my personal experience took place it seems possible and even likely that he requires stronger measures now.
    Whaleriders story is also my story, we are brothers in an unfortunately not very elite club. I can vouch for the truth of every word he says! I have been there too, in almost all of the same circumstances. Respect to you amigo!
    This purported teacher at this time begged me, i mean begged me to “whiz” in his mouth, now this was definately not for my evolution, by the way for those unfamiliar with the term whiz it means to pee or piss. I think that one has to experience something like that in order to know the truth of what is taking place, in order to feel the emotional truth of it, whether its something done for anothers benefit or just instinctive greed. Another detail comes to mind while travelling, in another country his suggesting that we could buy two very young prostitutes a young boy for him and a young girl for me. Now again for the full truth of it you would have to have been there, yes it did shock me but it didnt enhance my presence or my work in any way and sorry but i dont believe that it was intentional teaching to help me overcome mechanical morality or any such drivel.
    When does it become enough evidence for people to realize whats going on? when he starts to make snuff movies?
    But i get a terrible sinking feeling that they too would be explained away “oh thats not robert thats just someone who looks exactly like him” etc, etc.
    DEAR bruce, shalom!
    my mothers mother was, you guessed it Jewish and you know what that makes me technicaly, also jewish.
    Anti semite i am not, and have thoroughly appreciated the study of the zohar, the torah and the kabbalah ,i think the tree of life is a wonderfull teaching in itself. But I have read the protocols of the elders of zion, its not hidden one can simply put it in the search bar and find it. Now this is an honest question, have you read it?
    My comments were in answer to a question posed in an earlier post and as objective as i could make them.
    If you look back at my original post you will see i make reference to the as he is referred to black pope who for those of you who dont know is the head of the jesuit order, which is the military order of the catholic church.George H W Bush once said “i answer only to the pope”. The present general is Peter hans Kolvenbach and he may be the most powerfull man on the planet or at least one of them. The jesuits were founded by Ignacius Loyola who was a Basque soldier they are an order of assasins.
    Jews and Jesuits are connected through the Rothchilds who own that little country known as America through their federal reserve bank. Here is an extract of the jesuits induction oath.” I do further promise and declare, that I will have no opinion or will of my own, or any mental reservation whatever, even as a corpse or cadaver, but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may receive from my superiors in the Militia of the Pope… I furthermore promise and declare that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition; and that I will hang, burn, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics, rip up the stomachs and the wombs of their women and crush their infants heads against the walls, in order to annihilate forever their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly, I will secretly use the poisoned cup, the strangulating cord, the steel of the poniard or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the person or persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agent of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Faith, of the Society of Jesus. ”
    These are the people who take out presidents like Lincoln and kennedy for daring to change their currency.
    Im sorry this became so long and there are some connections i have not established, but when i peeked out from under my rock i saw that they have become very securely established and it frightened me, because everyone seems to think its ok when it happens in some third world country where you get very little feedback of whats going on but what about when it starts taking place in your own back yard and wait a minute that is our own backyard they are our brothers and sisters
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5587990522549547050
    the above link is from the horses mouth. By the way Bruce do you have children? i do a boy and a girl, thats one reason im concerned what is happening to our world.
    Are you the kind of person who likes a man who calls a spade a digging implement?
    may we all come to love.
    ps Elena you are beautifull and intelligent,
    make profit for yourself, surf it, use it, let it take you there.
    I leave you my loves with a quote from Blakes The marriage of heaven and hell.
    “The soul of sweet delight can never be defiled”.


  166. on June 7, 2007 at 10:53 pm Veronicapoe

    For those interested, the Articles of Incorporation of the Fellowship of Friends, Inc. and an amendment to those articles are now online:

    http://www.archive.org/details/TheEsotericHistoryArchive_13

    Initially, the specific and primary purpose of the corporation is as a church. In 1979 the specific and primary purpose changes from “church” to “religion.”


  167. #161 Comic Relief:

    The FoF Whitewash on Wikipedia:
    “Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.” George Orwell

    Precisely. At Wikipedia, however, everyone (and ultimately, no one) is in control. The result is controlled chaos. The truth is out there, but good luck pinning the slippery little hombre down in a Wikipedia article!

    Anyway…the FOF article as of 15 minutes ago looked pretty good to me. It’s been greatly shortened, and it clearly highlights the controversial aspects of the group, which I believe should be highlighted in the service of caveat emptor. The failed predictions are presented; the “metaphorical” disclaimer has been removed. The lawsuits are mentioned.

    But by the time you read this, someone will probably have rewritten it. Yesterday, the entire article had been tagged for deletion on the grounds that the topic isn’t “notable” according to Wiki standards. OK, that’s probably true.

    [Bogart: “Ilsa, I’m no good at being noble, but it doesn’t take much to see that the problems of three little people don’t amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world.”]

    If anyone cares and has several hours to squander, read the archived Discussion pages for the whole ludicrous history of the thing.


  168. To cyclops, 166

    “Jews and Jesuits are connected through the Rothchilds who own that little country known as America through their federal reserve bank”

    Banks profit but they no longer own very much. If nothing else, they own debt, lots of it, and yes America is expert at indebtness. But believing that “America” is owned by the Rothchilds is harder to believe than the rest of your stories, as disturbing as they may be.


  169. Sorry cyclops, you’re full of s**t. If you’re Jewish, than you’re a self-loathing jew, and as Jewish as Carl Warner when telling me, “You’re a damn jew too….like me”. Any fool that isn’t aware of the origin of the Protocols is choosing to remain ignorant or simply looking for a target for guttural hate. Have I read it? I’ve read it, restored it and re-bound it several times.

    For those too lazy to seek the truth here’s the wikipedia entry:

    “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion (Russian: “Протоколы сионских мудрецов”, or “Сионские протоколы”, see also other titles) is an antisemitic pamphlet that purports to describe a Jewish plot to achieve world domination. It is one of the most well known and discussed examples of literary forgery.

    Numerous independent investigations have proven it to be a plagiarism and a hoax.[1]

    Some scholars maintain that the Russian-French journalist Matvei Golovinski fabricated the text in the late 1890s. Among the most notable early refutations of the Protocols as a forgery were a series of articles printed in The Times of London in 1921. This series revealed that much of the material in the Protocols was plagiarized from earlier political satire that did not have an antisemitic theme. Since 1903, when the Protocols appeared in print, its earliest publishers have offered vague and often contradictory testimony detailing how they obtained their copy of the rumored original manuscript.[2]

    The Protocols are widely considered to be the beginning of contemporary conspiracy theory literature,[3] and take the form of an instruction manual to a new member of the “elders,” describing how they will run the world through control of the media and finance, and replace the traditional social order with one based on mass manipulation.

    The text was popularized by those opposed to Russian revolutionary movement, and was disseminated further after the revolution of 1905, becoming known worldwide after the 1917 October Revolution. It was widely circulated in the West in 1920 and thereafter. The Great Depression and the rise of Nazism were important developments in the history of the Protocols, and the hoax continued to be published and circulated despite its debunking.”

    Which, for me, gives anything you say zero credibility.

    And of course you’ve left out the black helicopters, flying in to tie up the whole “plan”.


  170. To Post #86/11 ~

    Yes, Alex Horn knows about Robert Burton…
    A few years ago RB hired people to diligently ‘dig up’
    Alex Horn’s whereabouts and succeeded; not to be
    confused with my success in the assisted teleporting of Whalerider’s toaster… to be continued soon.
    _____________________________

    To Post #103/11

    To Be a Demi-God Toaster!

    Onwards, my fellow white breads, onwards!
    ______________________________

    Love to you all.


  171. I was having stress elated phobias about posting. No help needed.

    But, what I was trying to get through is the following:

    Circa 1979. Robert (Burton) is now beginning to levitate.


  172. Sorry W. I find myself in Paxse – Laos now, a bit too far, but I’m moving to Cambodia (down the river) soon.

    Greetings,
    Golb


  173. Cathie: “the FOF article as of 15 minutes ago looked pretty good to me… The lawsuits are mentioned…But by the time you read this, someone will probably have rewritten it.”

    You predicted correctly. The lawsuit paragraph was removed as of 4:30 Pacific time. As of right now, the article DOESN’t look pretty good. There’s barely a mention of anything controversial.

    It sounds like a pretty reputable organization. Maybe we should join.

    Oh wait… What’s this at the bottom of the page…

    Blog about the Fellowship of Friends
    Information about the Fellowship of Friends from the Rick A. Ross Institute
    etc.

    Maybe we shouldn’t join.


  174. on June 8, 2007 at 12:05 am Copyright Question

    Veronicapoe, are you posting all of these documents on line?

    What is your motivation and why are you doing this?

    Also, are these not copyright protected by the Fellowship and if so, do you have permission?

    Thank you

    CQ


  175. Articles of Incorporation are public documents.


  176. Re: King of Clubs #133
    I also skipped it as I do many other long winded posts. I think Goethe once apologized for a lengthy letter by saying that if he had had more time it would have been shorter. And, of course, there is the well known quote from Shakespeare, “Brevity is the soul of wit.”


  177. “Articles of Incorporation: Articles of Incorporation are already a “public document”, because they are filed with the Secretary of State. The benefit to publishing these on-line is that people can access them easily, and would not need to “bother” the association and or the manager for copies. No specific disadvantage to publishing them comes to mind. They obviously would be subject to a much wider audience (and much more comprehensive scrutiny or study) than if they were not published on the internet.”


  178. on June 8, 2007 at 12:19 am Living the Questions

    To Siddiq , re: my post #19

    I am also still waiting for a response from YOU to my two questions, and the Sufi theology from your brother Al-Ghazali doesn’t count as a substitute. What I am wanting is your personal, heart-felt, and verified views on these questions. Quotes and party lines are not particularily informing or interesting to me, as I heard plenty of that in my twenty years in the FOF.


  179. re 115 Wake up little suzy

    I completely agree with this post. Furthermore I want to add another movie produced with the same basic aim but using a different route, ” What The Bleep Do We Know?, Down The Rabbit Hole version. It can be found at whatthebleep(dot)com

    It was April 1998 when Virginia (Ginger to a very few) Jenkins lent me her copy of A New Beginning, by Jerry and Esther Hicks. I quickly read it and made an astonishing discovery. There on the calender of events I was informed that in three days there would be a workshop in Sacramento. Now there was an omen! I attended on the Saturday and when I returned home that night I was glowing. After telling Gerda some of the highlights she insisted on attending the Sunday half. Our lives had just taken a miraculous turn. Hugs and kisses to you, Virginia!

    Oh dear, miraculous? What’s that another one of those queeny words like “secret”? Typical Renald! So emotional!
    No wonder, look at who his partner was! As queeny as they come! Two sides of the same coin, to be sure!

    Sometimes it pays to throw away the prescription glasses and the magnifying glasses. Sometimes a new vision is forced to install itself. Thanks to all! Joy to All. We ARE One. Oops! Love, Renald brjbrisson(at)yahoodotcom


  180. Its amazing how the blog has changed from the stimulus delayed response to the staccato of the current version. My wife continues to make fun of me as ‘married to the blog’ even if I only skim many of the longer contributions.
    While she was joking this time, I recalled our discussions when I joined the fellowship some 20 years back.
    The ‘running away from life’ accusations and her fear of loosing me, if she allows my ‘spiritual quest’ . Looking back I realize how much of this search for enlightenment is mechanical too and build into my ‘machine’.

    The popular enneagram interpretation ( Don Riso, H.Palmer and my favorite Eli Jackson Bear) , which was hard to allow after living ‘our’ planetary interpretation ( see Joel and Suzanne ‘s books) for so many years, has a type 7 who is a professional seeker.
    Is joining the fellowship mechanical as well? Is falling for ideas like the fall of California, 44 angeles and higher worlds as mechanical as to become a Firefighter or a Musician?

    Well, yes there are other types in the fellowship as well, but many got dragged into it by folks like me (I got my wife and kids to move with me from Europe to Oregon House in the late 80s).

    “Remember why you came” , Gurdjieffs banner over his french compound is still good advice. I want to understand and I appreciate all the many facets of thought in this blog helping me to solve the puzzle, why I joined a cult.

    all the best,
    Michael


  181. At one point Robert Burton indicated that he had only three friends: Peter Bish_p, Miles and JoelF.

    Of course, Peter has passed. Miles departed the “Fellowship of Friends.” And JoelF is bloggersville.

    My view in observing Robert Burton for decades is that he has (and likely had) no friends. This despite little odd friend-like flitations with certain non-Fellowship persons (remember D. Gilfe-ther). Also, he was pretty good to his mother, in a measured sort of way.

    Also, don’t know if this has been discussed, but I heard that the term “Fellowship of Friends” was originally the name of Ouspensky’s group in England. After the scales fell from my eyes, this “fact” seemed like just one more misappropriation (like his birthday magically no longer being on the 13th).

    I was given to understand that the number 4 is considered unlucky in certain oriental cultures – had wondered what Robert Burton would do with the “44” (in moving into Japan, etc.). Guess we now know — sorry fellows (and Eliz I) – no longer C-influence, we’re moving on to the always less controversial … cave persons.

    Be interesting to see if JoelF remembers this “Friend” comment above and has any current thoughts on the honor bestowed.

    Thanks to all for helping me (and others) to leave the Fellowship of Friends again, at a higher level.


  182. Unfortunately “What the Bleep” (and to a lesser extent “The Secret”) is a come-on for J.Z. Knight (of the “Ramtha” channeling gig) and her “cult”, as well as a few similar “sister groups”. Her thing isn’t much different than the FOF…sex drugs and rock and roll. Google it past the positive PR postings to the underlying information that’s available. Most of these featured authorities (quantum physicists, doctors etc.) are remarkably “connected” to her school. But a few of the quoted experts were upset how their interviews were edited. Apparently what they actually said was cleverly manipulated to support the film’s thesis.

    Of course all these gigs have some modicum truth in them. You can’t charge for 100% fluff.


  183. J.Z Knight is the blond woman in What the Bleep. You know, the one who mentions erect penis several times.


  184. on June 8, 2007 at 12:54 am Another Name

    Dear all and friends

    In 1998 after the prediction,we and many students had a dinner in the back of the Rosegarden with Robert Burton. We left and when I said goodbye Robert Burton said something like: “and the 1998 prediction, did not happen”. My response was: “Oo, Robert I am so grateful that it did not happen, who wants something like that to happen!” My friend over heard the conversation and said that he thought that Robert was inner considering and was relieved with my response…

    Just a story…


  185. on June 8, 2007 at 1:31 am Laughing Love

    Hello.
    To Walter Tanner (130 & 144)

    Your intelligent, humorous, calm and extremely well-written posts are a breath of fresh air.

    “Hoarded” is the strongest word. Is it possible for any individual or school to “hoard” all the potentially beautiful possibilities in this vast, stunning and terrifying world? Why would that ever be necessary?

    Why can’t the Fellowship ideas exist alongside any other theories, quests or questions peacefully?

    To LOL (83 & 84)

    Can you engage in conversation rather than dismissing any who think differently?

    Sarcasm is a very limited mode of expression. Scorn, disdain and blind hatred for individuals who don’t see the world quite the same as you do, is awkward and puerile.

    It would appear that you are paranoid or deliberately attempting to malign the creator of this discussion board by lying.

    That might be a childish technique.

    Many members who contribute here claim that they wish to offer a balanced view of the Fellowship of Friends and Robert Burton.

    A few current members, who are willing to engage in mature conversation, may well achieve that goal.

    Your posts will, most certainly, have the opposite effect on interested visitors and/or prospective students.

    To Vera.mente (112)

    Puritanical. Great word.

    As an artist, I too felt that it was a life or death situation in terms of leaving the school.

    I initially felt that the school would feed my artistic consciousness. Ultimately, I felt that the puritanical nature of the “rules & regulations” did not, in the least bit, encourage my creativity and freedom.

    The ideas actually squelched the importance of my individual expression because it devalued them. Within the context of the school, my intuitions and, yes! imagination!!! were constantly judged as wrong or questionable.

    As an individual, my life as an artist feeds me constantly.

    It is true that I valued the Fellowship’s constant reminder that exposure to art, music, dance, theatre, fine impressions etc., is essential.

    Still, I grew up with those values. I was lucky in that my mother constantly exposed her children to the arts. I was fortunate in that I earned a Masters in Fine Arts. I know the importance and constantly pursue exposure to various artistic endeavors as a natural extension of my upbringing and life experiences.

    Nabokov or Iris Murdoch express the ideas of consciousness through their ability to brilliantly use words to minimize and maximize human experience.

    David Lynch expresses the ideas of the common, asleep experience through his amazing filmmaking (see “Mulholland Drive”, but you’ll have to watch it at least 4 times).

    In NYC, The Wooster Group constantly present plays that enlighten texts, including “Hamlet”, by examining and creating original contexts through their free creativity.

    The Frangelico exhibit at the Met charged me with new purpose.

    The exhibit of Spanish painters at the Guggenheim fascinated me and enlightened my sense of Picasso’s influences. He most certainly did not emerge from one school.

    Jackson Pollack’s efforts are a clear illustration of some type of consciousness. There is no question that his artistic struggles were a part of some kind of enlightenment.

    There are thousands of examples.

    LL


  186. To Living the Questions, Elena and All,

    So, here is my response to the friendship questions…

    To Living the Question (#56)

    “1. Would you please elaborate on what you consider to be the important characteristics of friendship?
    2. Would you be so kind as to elaborate as to what, specifically, you have verified about Rovert Burton’s claim to be a man #7, and a prophet of God?”

    1. Truth, Loyalty, acceptance…

    Any more writing about this is besides the point, a friend is something we try to BE, not talk about. We all know what it is.

    2. My verifications are useless to others and would only serve to ridicule on this forum. Anytime we put a label on something (Man #7 etc.) it leads to opposite thinking, judgment &tc. But I have verified that Robert is far more awake than anyone I have ever met and that he is qualified to guide me along the process of awakening.

    and to Elena

    Elena
    To Siddiq,

    “Would you please expand on the nature of your friendship with Robert? I’ve seen that he is not even a friend to his promised to be second conscious being on the planet, so what service are you doing to him that makes you more acceptable? Has he ever sat with you without any agenda? ”

    I do not claim to be more acceptable than others, nor do I claim to have any special sort of friendship (any such thinking is foreign to a true friend of anyone–how can one compare?). If you want to enjoy friendships, be a friend. As I wrote above, we all know what that means.

    And yes, I have sat down with Robert on a occasions, just being, without any agenda–just observing life go by in Isis, and some other cities. These moments remain unforgettable verifications for me of how simple and direct presence can be.

    I must say I do not experience the “exchange” you are talking about–it is sad to me that you feel that way– I feel there are many opportunities for second line always, we have to take them, and we discard ourselves, no one can discard us. Good luck, Elena, thank you for asking.

    Siddiq


  187. Siddiq says “I must say I do not experience the “exchange” you are talking about–it is sad to me that you feel that way”

    No offense, but you must either be a poser, or incredibly naive.

    You have to pay to play in the school. Unless you are serving some purpose, any time spent with the teacher is an accident.


  188. 165 Walter Tanner says:

    “And of course Gurdjieff was an asshole. So here are three pretty realized beings, all with extensive following today, and they were all pricks.”
    Pretty strong identification. Didn’t this same asshole say “one is never responsible for the subjective states of others”
    ” The FOF dogma that “consciousness is not functions” is claptrap that gets us to thinking that an enlightened being is somehow divorced from everyday urges and bodily desires. This is ridiculous.”
    I remember Meher Baba (Is he an asshole too?) went on pilgramages serching for “masts”, God-realized beings stuck between planes. They more-or-less all had some pretty disgusting function-habits. This tells me that your observation did not take this into account.
    “… Esalen: The Religion of No Religion…”
    Yes, I have been there and met Abe Maslow and did Bio-energetic stuff and met the “Crosby Stills and Nash”bunch well- documented in the video, “Celebration at Big Sur”. This was the West coast beginning of using the energy of the body which Rajneesh later exploited and many therapists from Eslan ended up at Madras.


  189. To lovers of The Secret:

    Remember one of the opening scenes in The Secret where they talk about how The Secret has been suppressed in the past so that a few people could keep all the power; and they show this early 20th-century sequence with the capitalist supervisor walking through rows of his working-class laborers? Can you picture Robert in that sequence? What do you think, does Robert know The Secret? After all, he has attracted personal wealth probably in the top 10% of the nation; he takes regular trips all over the world; he has world-renowned performers visit his home; he has attracted hundreds of lovers to serve all his interesting needs; his every material desire is pretty much fulfilled – moreover, he has materialized an immortal soul through consistently focusing and refocusing on it; thousands worship and adore him and willingly send him money so he can buy expensive jewelry for himself on his birthday. Isn’t that all that The Secret promised? What’s more: we all can live The Secret, since there is enough stuff in the world for everybody – as was mentioned in the movie, not everybody desires the same things. So if Robert desires a hundred toy-boys and then materializes them, a hundred women probably desire new toasters and will eventually materialize them if they just keep focusing and refocusing their minds on already smelling the toast.

    Wake up and smell the narcissism. New and improved (different packaging, this time more cheese).


  190. Ex-members need to set up their own blog, one operated by an actual ex-member of the FOF. If you do and you want me there contact me at:

    complete_attention@yahoo.com

    (make sure that your “spam settings” do not block yahoo addresses)


  191. #193…”Ex-members need to set up their own blog, one operated by an actual ex-member of the FOF.”

    And why is that?


  192. #194

    And why is that?

    The octave has become too influential not to be householdered by one of us.


  193. on June 8, 2007 at 4:31 am Cake please

    Veronicapoe,
    Thank you , yours 167, wow

    Remember conjuring up stuff like this for Federal grant money. But no one on either end of the stick ever believed it. Just the hoops that needed to be jumped through.

    But sadly enough, this was my school. I did believe it. Those who should have known better playing fast and loose with everyone from God to Goethe. And for what end?

    From the Canons of the Fellowship of Friends

    Principles of the Gospels
    (You may know the drill but it is actually in there)

    Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    Blessed are those who mourn: for they shall be comforted.
    Blessed are the gentle (meek): for they shall inherit the earth.
    Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be satisfied (filled).
    Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain (be shown) mercy.
    Blessed are the poor (pure) in heart: for they shall see God.
    Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the sons(children) of God.
    Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    Matthew 5:3-10

    Well, a few variations from my King James version. But the most striking being: “Blessed are the “poor” in heart”.

    Think it was actually “pure” of heart. Given the choice, poor of heart vs pure of heart. No contest. Pure. Pure.

    And if “The Canons” can change pure to poor, it is all down hill from there.

    No theological scholar here. Just liked the music, the pretty windows and that eery “there is more than what you see” feeling.

    But too much is familiar. So much self sacrifice. So much sacrifice of what you know should not be sacrificed.

    The friend taking a tea bag to Apollo D’Oro and ordering hot water. Saving up for an immigration lawyer to keep her husband from being deported. Fellowship no can do on this one.

    A dedicated elder, needs assistance. No Fellowship resources currently available. Turn to your friends. Shame, shame, shame.

    On and on, everyone here knows some merciful, meek/gentle, peacemaker who is not being shown mercy, comforted, or seeing the kingdom of heaven.

    Amongst us. Contrary to our Edict.

    Joy
    Cake

    ps to arthur, help? let me know. your cyber bud, cake


  194. on June 8, 2007 at 4:49 am Living the Questions

    To Siddiq, Post #189
    Thanks for responding to my questions and keeping the focus at a personal level. I would agree with the three words (truth, loyalty, acceptance) you use to describe friendship and also that it is something we try to BE.
    So, given your description of friendship, would you say that Robert was being a friend to Whale Rider, Troy Buzbee and other such naïve young men when he sexually used them for his personal gratification?

    Your comment that “anytime we put a label on something (Man #7 etc.) it leads to opposite thinking, judgment, etc.” is quite ironic, since it is Robert himself who placed this ‘label’ (Man #7) on his spiritual condition and who also has ‘labeled’ former FOF students as ‘better off dead’, ‘food for the moon’, etc. What possible positive intent or outcome can there be for using such potent and loaded labels, since labeling leads to judgment, etc.?

    As Stella so frequently used to say: “If you see a bird on the lawn pulling up a worm, you can safely say you saw a bird on the lawn pulling up a worm”. I think the facts speak for themselves.
    If, as you say, you believe Robert is qualified to guide you along the process of awakening, then all I can say is :”Good Luck, Siddiq”.


  195. Does anyone remember a lady named Roberta (I forgot the last name) who died in an automobile accident near Knights Landing?


  196. on June 8, 2007 at 5:15 am Ames Gilbert

    To Siddiq (#11-123)
    What is the use of making affirmations for Golb, Ames, or Burton? So you think we are all sincere? So what? What kind of feeling are you trying to induce in your readers, that you are being extra observant, or just making nice?

    Further, when you start going on about “standing behind Robert and looking through his eyes as well as my own, throughout the prediction times”, you are lying, just like Golb. You have no idea of how to “look through Burton’s eyes”. You may have empathy, you may have imagination, but you cannot know. He could be suffering from narcissistic personality disorder, to pick a random example, and you would never know.

    Next, it makes a terrific difference whether you choose to act from your highest level of understanding, or from what you imagine are “instruction of Influence C”, because they are not one and the same. If you believe that Influence C is external to you (and you must, if you accept Burton’s claims that he is the exclusive intermediary between you and Influence C), then you are merely completing the betrayal of your true self when you make this claim. On the other hand, if I have misunderstood you, then you have no business with Burton as an instructor or mediator, your obligation is to act from your highest level of understanding, not his. But I don’t think I have misunderstood, because you continue on from there to make further affirmations for him (“wholeheartedly going through the process”) that you cannot know. You have entered his fantasy.

    Finally, what you say “might appear to be circular” is indeed circular; no logical entry point, no logical exit.

    Come on, Siddiq, you were gifted with an intellectual center, so use it!


  197. In reply to Post #195/11

    Don’t worry King of Clubs, it’s the king of clubs that monitors that which may or may not become too influential and ironically is the phenomenon that promotes excesses and hard core monitoring of just where the excesses are excessed and, let us say, turned down here and there.

    Sure, it’s a great idea, to ‘monitor’, yet, by now, if you’ve followed the internal contents of this blog site, there’s nothing that has not already been said, coveted, covered, blogged, flogged, logged, sawed, bogged, gnawed, thawed, clawed, nipped, snipped, dipped, gripped, tripped, flipped and out right drug out of the sewers of King Kongdome, that would surprise anyone due to the lack of a monitor.

    So, whaz up?

    “We don’t need no education.” Pink Floyd

    Education is for bricks in the wall.

    I vote for the Hulk,
    go through the wall,
    not over, under, around,
    why not through it?

    Do we not sense a greater task to the legacy of spiritual
    seeking than to keep seeking, what of the found?

    Once you see that wall, get green, do something with it.

    The Great Wall of China supplies the stones for the construction of many small villages, it is slowly disappearing, this too will happen to the Fellowship of Friends, it is a monitoring wall.

    Love to you all.


  198. King of the Instinctive Center (159) It is beautiful to see you bring pride back to the vehicle that carries us through this plane. A pride that Robert never acknowledged because he was unable to rise above it.

    What you seem to be pointing to is that universal ability of the King of Clubs to perceive the world of nature. Oneness with Nature. That place were the kings ring in harmony and move beyond one into the whole cosmos. When presence is behind the king of clubs, can there be anything but gratitude for nature? I say gratitude but it is an integrity with it that does not need the intellectual acknowledgement, just the emotional vibration.

    This, which we have all experienced in different degrees in our lives was robbed from us in the Fellowship of Friends where Robert is so starved of natural impressions that he has to make up for it, feeling the flesh of young men with desperation and no love. It is sad how we condemm ourselves to certain impressions at such a high cost and neglect others offering themselves so generously.

    To me, you’re talking about the instinctive center with presence behind. Without presence, it is a wild beast devouring people’s energy physically, emotionally and intellectually, like Robert.

    While in animals, it works as a legitimate tool for survival, in man it works equally beastly but the territory it thrives in is the energetic aura of each other’s I. Indeed, it cannot acknowledge any body but whoever it is identified with like an animal with its prey. The queens just follow it blindly. It cannot see beyond sex attraction, status, money or groupies.

    It’s interesting that Robert talked about it so consistently, he knew what he was fighting and also interesting that it was our king of clubs what idolized him, unable to perceive and acknowledge our own self.

    On that level of the I, we are equal no matter how many more talents you might have that I don’t. When we know that, only joy can come from appreciating each other’s talents.

    Thank you again for your post.

    To the Sheik,

    Sometime back you talked about not talking and your posts have been refreshing so very often, I do miss them, even if we don’t agree.

    I admire your patience with us, not being indoctrinated and silly as we were and probably still are, in different ways, but it hurt when you called the blog this “bitch”. Maybe it’s just the language that I can’t quite identify whether it is weighing too much on you or you’re being cool.

    Something seems to be bothering you, fine, let us know and maybe there are other solutions.


  199. on June 8, 2007 at 5:41 am Ames Gilbert

    To Howard Carter, Post #116
    Howard, your few quotes from Burton do not shed any light on the issue. Quite the contrary; their semantic content adds up to zero. But that is not unexpected, considering the source. Much more importantly, why do you think that HIS inventions, however bizarre, have anything to do with YOUR personal verifications?
    Chopsticks’ original question (#10-338) was, “How does “Cave drawings” images help you to Self Remember?” You still have not answered the question.


  200. on June 8, 2007 at 6:14 am Comic Relief

    Insoluble Dilemmas:

    “It is a good idea to believe only half of what you hear, but be sure the half you believe isn’t the wrong half.”

    “People who are sensible enough to give good advice are usually sensible enough to give none.”

    “Nobody believes the official spokesman, but everybody trusts an unidentified source.”

    “Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority.” Doctor Who

    “The trouble with making intelligent suggestions is that you’re apt to be appointed to carry them out.”
    Gene Brown

    “There are no exceptions to the rule that everybody likes to be an exception to the rule.” George Osner

    “In the long run, we are all dead.” John Maynard Keynes


  201. #165 Walter Tanner

    Why the division into “spiritual development’ and “moral development”? It is pathological development. I agree, it is crazy to separate “consciousness” and “functions”. If there is pathology (repressed shadow) it climbs up the ladder with you and poisons everything and it is seen in the pathology of the group.

    #166 cyclops

    You are not the only one to look out from under the rock. I am sure there are many like myself who search alternative media, get out and protest only to be belittled and maligned by corporate media. the horrors of the minds of those who have only developed to an ego-centric or ethno-centric structure of cognition and who crave and attain the power to perpetuate their horrible minds are anathema to those of a true “spiritual” bent. “The best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate intensity.” It has always been so.
    It is true that it appears that the horrible is on the rise. The dreadful has already happened. What is not so apparent is that the “fourth turning” is underway.


  202. “Goethe once apologized for a lengthy letter by saying that if he had had more time it would have been shorter. And, of course, there is the well known quote from Shakespeare, “Brevity is the soul of wit.”

    !


  203. on June 8, 2007 at 7:21 am for the Best

    #182
    “I want to understand and I appreciate all the many facets of thought in this blog helping me to solve the puzzle, why I joined a cult. ”

    Hello Michael,

    If by any chance you have the time to read or re-read the “animals farm of George Orwell”, I found it very instructive in this short novel how the thruth gets distorted insidiously, little by little.

    Enjoy.
    Aline C.


  204. Living the Questions

    “So, given your description of friendship, would you say that Robert was being a friend to Whale Rider, Troy Buzbee and other such naïve young men when he sexually used them for his personal gratification?”

    What part of the question are you living? The being a friend part or the being sexually used for personal gratification?

    You are making me LOL!


  205. on June 8, 2007 at 7:48 am for the Best

    #155 – 2b
    “So, add the encouragement of “moderate thinking” to the list of mind control techniques.”

    You hit the point.
    Also, moderate thinking is characterized by a lack of accuracy.
    when accuracy is missing, thinking is not based upon verification.

    Aline C.


  206. To #193, 194, 195 and 201 all related to Mr. Sheik and this blog.

    I think a partial answer can be found at 1 #90.

    To Cake Thanks for thinking of me.


  207. on June 8, 2007 at 1:05 pm Martin from Berlin

    To Walter 144 and others regarding Phillippe McGuire

    I am still in touch with Phillippe and he is doing fine and is still alive :-)

    He was left alone and kick out by the FOF when he was sick. The sisters of the order of Mother Theresa took care of him in San Francisco.

    His story is more than shocking, but it is up to him to tell it.

    I remember Roberts comments about the mechanicality of Mother Theresa. But here was a man in need and his people were not willing to help, but the women from India did it. So much to the value of ‘friendship’ of the fellows in the school of ‘love’.


  208. King of Clubs,

    Succeed.net is not a Fellowship of Friends or student’s network.

    To Siddiq, 11/189

    Do you notice that you avoid to answer half of the questions? The ones your split personality can handle?

    Since you are obviously a man that has travelled with Robert and we all know the price of that for no one travels with him for free, and the price is payed in specimen or semen if you prefer, then I can well believe that at some point you all have to sit down and rest without that meaning that there isn’t an agenda.

    Again, if your friendship with Robert is like yours with mine, I can see it is only in your imagination or where have you been in the past two months or even today when I need your help? Or is help not a word in your vocabulary of friendship?

    “No one is more blind than he who does not want to see”.
    Popular saying.

    That is a legitimate position Siddiq, in this world of ilegitimates but stop pretending that you actually care to look at what is being said here, because you are lying to yourself and us. Condescending but not dialoguing for in a diologue one actually hears not just the words but the beings.

    And actually, let me give you the benefit of the doubt. Everything positive that you are seeing in Robert is actually there but until you are able to see everything that is negative, you will not really understand the height that he reached.

    It is not a height to underestimate, but it is not the height of a man number seven……. barely a man number five and only on rare occassions.

    Like any one of us, somewhere in his being he is sincere. It is just that his King of Clubs overrode him to keep the pace of dealing with the many of us who idolized him. We were by far, his greatest obstacle and he couldn’t overcome it. The temptation of power was too great. It is similar to a marriage that one keeps putting energy into but deep down knows one is having to give one’s self up to keep it alive. It works to sacrifice one’s self for some time but when you do it for too long you become a victim like we all did trying to make efforts of third line that Robert couldn’t help stealing, as if they were for him and not for us all.


  209. on June 8, 2007 at 2:27 pm We Were There

    To: 193 The King of Clubs

    “Ex-members need to set up their own blog, one operated by an actual ex-member of the FOF.”

    I disagree.

    The surprising success of this blog is due in no small part to the fact that our host is NOT personally invested in the Fellowship of Friends, either pro or con. Thus, although he clearly is critical of the, shall we say, ‘cult-like’ FoF, his lack of an agenda has encouraged a dialogue between currents and formers that would have been impossible if he were “an actual ex-member of the FOF.”

    To: 201 Elena

    “I admire your (the Sheik’s) patience with us, not being indoctrinated and silly as we were and probably still are, in different ways… Something seems to be bothering you, fine, let us know and maybe there are other solutions.”

    I agree. Sheik?


  210. Any body remember the name of the student who was killed in a hunting accident in the late 90’s or early 00’s – I think he was a lawyer, fairly newish student?


  211. on June 8, 2007 at 2:51 pm We Were There

    Does RB ever express doubt?

    Once he asked what I thought about another student’s suggestion that the Fellowship of Friends invest in a scheme that seemed to me ‘too good to be true.’ I responded ‘I think it would just be gambling.’

    He thought a few moments and replied ‘Then let’s not do it. You know, I have never been attracted to gambling. After all, we are already gambling everything.’


  212. Dear bruce.
    “what is truth”?
    is it what the majority believe? is it what the most vociferous believe? does it change from time to time and place to place?
    You seem abusive, so i think maybe you have been abused. Perhaps by being jewish you have had to put up with a lot of “mammoth poop”.
    Many of my german friends have had to put up with mammoth poop also for their ancestors roles in Hitlers regime.
    Im not a practicing jew, its just that my great grand mother was of jewish extraction and im proud of all my heritage. There are many other races in it, im quite a mongrel.
    I would like to drop the jewish thing as i dont feel its going any where and one can come up with so much contradictory information that it would take a lifetime of study for example below is the introduction to another website.
    INTRODUCTION
    Of the Protocols themselves little need be said in the way of introduction. The book in which they are embodied was first published in the year 1897 by Philip Stepanov for private circulation among his intimate friends. The first time Nilus published them was in 1901 in a book called The Great Within the Small and reprinted in 1905. A copy of this is in the British Museum bearing the date of its reception, August 10, 1906. All copies that were known to exist in Russia were destroyed in the Kerensky regime, and under his successors the possession of a copy by anyone in Soviet land was a crime sufficient to ensure the owner’s of being shot on sight. The fact is in itself sufficient proof of the genuineness of the Protocols. The Jewish journals, of course, say that they are a forgery, leaving it to be understood that Professor Nilus, who embodied them in a work of his own, had concocted them for his own purposes.
    Mr. Henry Ford, in an interview published in the New York WORLD, February 17th, 1921, put the case for Nilus tersely and convincingly thus:
    “The only statement I care to make about the PROTOCOLS is that they fit in with what is going on. They are sixteen years old, and they have fitted the world situation up to this time. THEY FIT IT NOW.”
    from the web site below.
    http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion1.htm#WHO
    Dear bruce I sincerely hope you are right and that it is just some conspiracy bullshit, but its not all bullshit this conspiracy stuff some of it is not hidden at all, for example the FACT that almost all the founding fathers were masons. By the way all three of my brothers are masons and i love them all. In talking with them they point out that they know very little of what the higher echelons are busy with such as the english Queen who is their head.
    Any way I leave you the last word on this, Im done, its been a large side octave but thank you ive enjoyed it.
    I hope you stand up for others as much as you do the jews.
    Did you ever read “A stone for Danny Fisher”?
    Are you familiar with Lenny Bruce? “oh the white folks hate the black folks and the indian folks hate the pakistani folks and the spicks hate the wops and everybody hates the jews.”drastically paraphrased apart from the last line.
    I leave you with a line from John Keats which re establishes scale for me.
    When I have fears that I may cease to be,
    Before my pen has glean’d my teeming brain…
    then on the shore
    Of the wide world I stand alone, and think
    Till love and fame to nothingness do sink.
    Keats.
    Untitled sonnet, written in a letter (January 31, 1818)
    P.S. I hope you recover!


  213. post 166, interesting mix of anti-semitism and anti-burtism. Also the recent discussion about the prophecies is not helpful. Of course few students ever thought this things will happen, but it was taken as an exercise to focus on something. Also after all the postings of the scale of Roberts misbehaviour, why are their so few first hand descriptons considering that the school has still 2000 members and almost 10000 former members. Naturally some will be unhappy and give strong accounts about what happened. Don’t tell me I am buffering, I look at all sides and at this point the school is still a much better environment then most other places. I am open to an discussion, but please don’t attack since the underlying motivation must be wrong.


  214. Henry Ford…author of “The Jewish Problem”. You know what cyclops..Get bent.


  215. I agree Sheik is our best moderator…
    He is not censoring anyone’s voice, and even though we have to be patient very often with one another, through the meanest or more challenging posts we can still grow and move beyond.

    Thank you everyone for speaking here, this is a great forum even when there is plenty of friction.

    To Laughing Love:
    I am glad you found your freedom again, life out there is full of possibilities, we had to go through the very narrow gate of self denial in the fof.
    It was not a school of love, that is for certain. A school of denial indeed! Promoting all the opposite of what it pretended to produce.
    It is almost ironic!LOL!

    I do not want to forget the dear friends in the fof either…
    I met many sweet people there..but who remains stays at the price of their souls!

    To Elena:
    Thank you for your support.
    You are very intelligent.
    I love your posts.


  216. Hi to All!

    Re: Post 144. Phillipe McGuire is well and living in France. He’s currently on vacation. Not sure if he is aware of this site, but I’ll pass on the information. Just spoke with him last week.

    I’m very grateful to the Sheik for bring us together. Loved the Memorial Day photos!!! And reading the posts.Hello to Sandra, Joel, Carl., and others! Hugs to you! I’ll write more when I’m done packing up this house. We’re moving.

    AR


  217. re. 163–Alice in — Comic Relief – always enjoy reading your posts. You quoted: Abraham Lincoln
    “A man’s conscience tells him what he shouldn’t do – but it does not keep him from doing it.”

    Interesting, don’t you think? What do you make of it? What Does ‘keep him from doing it’? There was a fascinating post on guilt (actually a couple) on a previous page – I wonder if there is a key in a person’s relationship with their own experience of guilt. Would that poster please make a comment?

    This is precisely the type of inquiry I had in mind when recommending the info from What The Bleep-Rabbit Hole. The usefulness for me is that I began to apply the neuro-theory to my experience and to my worldview and I found that it opened up another window of vision upon the landscape, relative I know but non-the-less appreciated. I know for sure that I post without any propaganda motives. Thank you Bruce for the head-up. I am sincere as much as I was grateful for following my nose to the Fellowship of Friends so many years ago.
    Believe it or not, I too have a degree of scepticism built in and from time to time it surfaces. Yet I repeat, this info from these Bleeping people seems to work. This is enough for me at this time. It is a quantum leap in acceptance of this tool for thought, though when even in today’s news release there is talk of more neurological discoveries which actually backs up their info. on peptides-receptors-etc. I may be a little slower, 7spadeslunarvenusian, but I have a lot of time so I will catch up. My motive is that there are others coming to me and my wife for help along the way.
    Many thanks to all for this avenue to discovery. Please continue to provide all the positive energy possible because there is a lot of negative thought and negativety which must be transformed, which leads to more—–which leads to dis-ease. I know, negative expression, there is so much to learn by this machine. I do understand that this is not bad in itself, ie. was it not my realization (belief) that a teacher who was so often ill and students who were so often seriously ill had to be a sign that negative habits were not being transformed which helped be jump ship. Yes like many others I relegated this idea to the back burner (buffered) but a tree and its fruit, you know.

    As an aside to the Fof doctors and Luis Diaz, my health is now perfect. Amazing, isn’t it?

    One question to All. Is it really the good feeling of vanity which corrupts people with power and all the goodies that this power is attached to, their addiction to that good vanity-feeling and the other goodies, like orgasmic sexual pleasures which starves the body? Is it actually this which leads to all that illness by robbing the body of its nutrients and proteins in order to build more and more receptors which guarantee the continued supply of those pleasure-peptides? If that theory is correct, then no bloody (bleep) wonder that what is is (no pun). Joy and happiness to all and don’t sweat the wealth which necessarily follows. Actually if you sweat it you will resist or block it anyways. Talk about circular reasoning! Oh Well, Enjoy your day!
    Renald Brisson, brjbrisson at yahoo dot com


  218. To Student (217), “Of course few students ever thought this things will happen, but it was taken as an exercise to focus on something.”

    Right. I’m sure that makes everyone who quit their jobs along the coast and — and who suffered serious consequences to their careers and finances as a result — feel much better now.

    You wrote: “Don’t tell me I am buffering (regarding the allegations against Robert Burton).”

    You are not buffering. My read is that you know exactly what has been occurring, and you understand exactly why people are concerned, but you just don’t care.

    But let’s say I’m wrong, and you are buffering. Would you be concerned if say, “hypothetically”, you learned that Robert Burton was using his position as “teacher” to have sex with as many men as possible? Would that change your thinking about him?


  219. to student # 217

    “Of course few students ever thought this things will happen, but it was taken as an exercise to focus on something.” Wow, are you ever buffering!

    Most students who chose to work with the prediction at all, took it as an exercise to work with the Teacher’s will, regardless of their own opinions. We had plenty to “focus on”, building the school and making enough money to make teaching payments. And there were plenty to truly believed (or pretended to believe) that the predictions would actually occur.

    In our case, we tried to avoid the subject at the time, it was really kind of embarassing. We reluctantly attended a few ‘neighbourhood meeetings’. We bought an extra case of tuna and some medical supplies that we should have had on hand anyway.

    But many students ran up huge debt because Robert told them “the banks will be under water, and you won’t have to pay off the debt, dear” – indeed I believe the Fellowship itself is stil paying off debt incurred before April 1998. The greed was sickening.

    Then there were the students who, in following the task, gave up good jobs to move to Oregon House. I had a good friend who, after much agonizing, decided to “trust Robert and C Inluence”, took early retirement from her satisfying and secure professorship, giving up excellent benefits and good money. Following Robert’s advice/request, she built a house in Oregon House, going into more debt than she could afford as a retiree. The resulting stress of trying to make ends meet, running around doing pick-up work, perhaps contributed to her death last summer of metastasized breast cancer.

    Dont call that “an exercise to focus on something.”

    That’s insulting.


  220. Sorry about the typos above, I guess I was a little perturbed…


  221. In Memorandum

    The Lawyer from Brownsville name was Douglas.

    2 names from Israel are: Mathew (Moti) and Tzvikah.


  222. Love, true love as it is referred to, is life energy. Without it, the body dies. So, imo, there is no controversy as to whether the school if a school of love. Either one decides to allow the full flow of love into and out of us towards something or someone or one allows negative thoughts, feelings, sensations, or emotions to resist and block it. The first leads to perfect health on all levels (physical, psychological, emotional, and instictive) and the habit (addiction) of the second possibility leads to disease and death. The only useful concern is whether we are individuals of love. ‘ Concern’ may be replaced by a more positive word. I had a good friend who was a real marshmallow. He didn’t speak the language of his community and in order to be accepted in school had to put on the cloak of the tough guy. It was a pretense, at first. They called him “Roughhouse”. He had to express negativety to carry out this role. He developed rheumathoid arthritis at a youngish age. Eventually he got addicted to the pain relievers and the resulting suffering led to a heart condition which gave him his next wish, absense of pain, absense of life. Not to belabor the point, another.
    When I was in elementary school, another of my friends, Andy, who had amazing leadership qualities and charisma, a replica of The Fonz, and this was long before the tv series ‘Happy Days” existed, had a similar experience. He had to be harder than The Fonz, or so he manifested. Actually ‘hard’ is the word we all used. Now the brain is very literal. Andy started to develop a very rare dis-ease. His skin started It couldn’t breathe any moreto become hard. When it was hard enough, he died. I visited him just before. He was raising bunny-rabbits. I think he was 21.
    Neither of these two friends allowed the love energy to flow through, well not in this lifetime. I would not for one minute doubt that my connecting with their signature energy and also Virginia’s provided me with the incentive to pass on this knowledge to you ALL here and now. I would not for one moment doubt that this energy is hovering above or inside of me right now, joyous for All.

    Sorry Sheik, I didn’t know that I was going to be moved to add another post.

    Hey Phillip MG Isn’t it great to be alive in France in the springtime?


  223. Please i beg you if you have not previously looked at it take a look just click on the link. i beg you in the name of love and conscience. Please forgive the young man stuttering if i’d been through what he has i would too. please just click here.http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5587990522549547050


  224. sorry after putting this in i tried to click on the link but it wouldnt work im going to try again but if it doesnt work click on it in post 166 you dont have to read the post just click on the link if you believe in truth.
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5587990522549547050


  225. Dear Student (217) you say “at this point the school is still a much better environment then most other places”. I just have to smile. “Most other places”? Have you really been to “most other places”? And how do you compare?
    What a funny thing to say. I guess you haven’t traveled much, haven’t spent time with different people outside FOF or haven’t simply looked around with open eyes and open mind.
    It’s like this famous devoted student phrase :”There is nothing out there!” Yeah right.


  226. cyclops, it’s posts like yours that make me appreciate the value of having a moderator.

    I can’t tell whether you are/were actually connected with the Fellowship of Friends, but it doesn’t matter. Your anti-semitic babblings, conspiracy theorizing, and insistent (3 posts?) linking to a video of a soldier talking about his Iraq experience are classic Troll behavior. Begone!

    (I’m posting this with reservations, because I know any kind of attention only fuels your silly game. I’m calling you on your BS, and you won’t hear from me again.)


  227. Dear “Student” – you wrote:

    “Also after all the postings of the scale of Roberts misbehaviour, why are their so few first hand descriptons considering that the school has still 2000 members and almost 10000 former members.”
    With due respect, you are saying because you don’t know about the extent of it, it must not be true. Try asking the right questions to the right people – a crime according to the fellowship – then, when the same answers inevitably come out, you will be unable to hold to that opinion.
    The answer above all, is the “Code of Silence” – but also playing into this is servitude to “influence C”, and finally, belief, fear, belief, fear, belief, fear.


  228. New FOF blog available. Unmoderated as long as on topic (racism is off topic).

    http://fofgraduates.wordpress.com/2007/06/08/graduates-of-the-fellowship-of-friends/


  229. #232 Graduates: We already have a blog. Why do we need another one?


  230. on June 8, 2007 at 6:05 pm for the Best

    #82 Newcomer

    ” Me and some friends who are members would be very gratefull if some of you who have been here from before can give us references of good posts.

    Are you lazy?

    “here is so much it is hard to read. If several people gave us their 10 favorite posts.”

    Are you naïve?
    There are more than ten.

    Aline C.


  231. Robert has lunches at the Apollo d’Oro with his entourage. Shining like the sun. The group walks down the hill to the cars and goes – you know where to do what.

    At the reception after the dinner Robert stands up and walks away with his entourage – sometimes 20 guys! You know where to do what.

    One can love the Teacher, be inspired by the hydrogens and enjoy his energy. One can believe that Robert is conscious being helping his students to become conscious. One can mind one’s own business…

    But these scenes bother me.


  232. on June 8, 2007 at 6:24 pm More history needed?

    Dear Sharon,

    About the Laywer who lived in Bronsville and was shot when hunting.
    Call John Bowen, he was there when the accident happened.
    I forgot his name. Abe knows his name too.

    Love to all of you and thanks for the Sheik and the blog.. what a job,thanks again.


  233. To Cyclops, #227

    “Please i beg you if you have not previously looked at it take a look just click on the link. i beg you in the name of love and conscience. Please forgive the young man stuttering if i’d been through what he has i would too. please just click ”

    I would stutter as well IF I had been through what he described. The problem here is that this young man has been very convincingly exposed as a fraud, and the video as a hoax. You can get of it next to the video in the recent comments and get a more complete round-up on wikipedia. Are you always that gullible, cyclops?

    This story illustrates how difficult it is to evaluate personal stories. You had to be there to know whether a story stands, or you have to use your ‘judgment’ (whatever that is) evaluating the story, in light of what you know of the protagonists and in light of independent, corroborating stories.

    An example is Mathias previous post: “He was left alone and kick out by the FOF when he was sick. The sisters of the order of Mother Theresa took care of him in San Francisco.

    His story is more than shocking, but it is up to him to tell it.

    I remember Roberts comments about the mechanicality of Mother Theresa. But here was a man in need and his people were not willing to help, but the women from India did it. So much to the value of ‘friendship’ of the fellows in the school of ‘love’.”

    The story is neat, fits the model of an uncaring FOF with the added detail of bringing Mother Theresa (scorned by RB on several occasions). The story gives a very biased view of the facts, as I witnessed them at the time. I will give Mathias the benefit of the doubt, assuming he got the story second hand or from PMG himself, but was not around Isis or San Francisco around that time.


  234. on June 8, 2007 at 6:29 pm Comic Relief

    Thank you, Alice in W (163).

    “Action springs not from thought, but from a readiness for responsibility.” Dietrich Bonhoeffer

    “Most of us follow our conscience as we follow a wheelbarrow. We push it in front of us in the direction we want to go.” Billy Graham


  235. on June 8, 2007 at 6:30 pm if memory serves

    #230 and #233 Cathie, thank you. You are bright, concise and refreshing. It was a pleasure to see you at the reunion.


  236. The Fellowship of Friends began circa 1970-1971 Do-Re-Mi (+)
    (-) Fa-Sol-La (1979) Si (-) and the rest is history.


  237. Cathie
    #232 Graduates: We already have a blog. Why do we need another one?

    if memory serves
    #233 Cathie, thank you. You are bright, concise and refreshing. It was a pleasure to see you at the reunion.

    >>>>>>>>

    It is always a better situation when there is an alternative to the perceived monopoly, what if there was a viable alternative to the FOF? For one thing the operator of the alternative blog understands the work somewhat and is not hostile to it. You won’t have to buffer outbursts of false personality, or continuously stroke his ego as insurance. This is not for everybody, but there are hopes that Joelf, CharlesR, Sandra?, SharonM, Ames, Elena and so on (there are more), the people with some real mass ,come back and start giving the rest of us some genuine energy because that is what we are here for. Those that feel a loyalty to the “inner confusion” should stay here. There are no imaginary expectations that another octave will pick up, just hopes.


  238. yes it seems i am very naive thanks for the info about the fraud but they cant all be frauds surely?
    i feel quite silly actually, there are no comments on my you tube video so i checked out wikipedia as suggested and yep you appear to be correct.
    Guess id better just crawl back under my rock. and stick to relating personal experiences from now on such as direct experiences with burton which no one can tell me werent true as i was there he has a short dick with a large knob on the end, how could i be so naive! as to believe him for one minute does cognac increase naivete? sorry folks who wasted time on that video. good luck. ( must be c inf humiliating me ) tee hee.


  239. Hello to all of you beautiful people,

    so nice to meet you again! Reading and participating to this blog is a profound experience that is helping so many of us to understand and heal and learn from our past. I am struck by the depth of understanding and compassion shown by many fellow bloggers. It looks like the FOF experience was a prelude to a healthier and fuller life for most of us! For the past week I have been reading your posts until my eyes hurt and I am really grateful for this opportunity to come to terms with a very crucial period of my life. After leaving the FOF my first priority was to move on and to create a new life for me and my family. I did not spend a lot of time thinking about what had happened, I just knew very clearly that my connection with the fellowship and its teachings had ended and I was happy to let it go. Now I see how many unexpressed emotions I am still carrying inside of me, how much I still love my old lost friends, how strongly these memories of long ago still affect me. So many people I forgot about, and what a shock to suddenly see their faces, hear their names again ! (by the way, I think you are aging graciously, don’t listen to spiteful and infantile comments on your looks.) I just desire to share my delight at this new twist of our collective play. I already loved the web and its amazing potential to connect people and ideas, but this beats any use I have had for it so far.

    Love to all of you,

    Laura Ottina (formerly Davis)

    Susan T: I was especially moved by your post. I joined the FOF in Rome when you were center director and have very fond memories of you and Patrick. I am really happy to hear that you are well! It’s the quality of people like you that drew me to the FOF and one of the things that I still value most about that experience.

    Ames: your insights were very helpful to me at the time I left the FOF, congratulations, I see you are keeping up the good work!


  240. on June 8, 2007 at 7:16 pm More history needed?

    Why not more people have come out is a question to me. I asked a student who has been very close to Robert for years and he gave me a “beautiful ” story. Robert Burton of the fellowship of friends, said when he refused that it would not harm his evolution. I told this story to a 30 year ex- student and he said The student had told him that he had sex with Robert and had been Robert’s lover. I was puzzled and knew that somebody was lying???

    What does this tell you?

    1. Shame, ambarresed

    2. Ask the Russian students, who are now around Robert. They have a hard time working in the gardens and the life around Robert seems preferable….They have a different back ground and according to my point of view a lack of conscience.

    3. For some people sex is a good to barter for. Everybody his choice.

    4. Some people aound Robert have a tendency for bi-sexuality. Fits this aspect.

    5. Some people are depended on their visa and greencard bartering with sex (as said before.)

    6. Some people believe the story that Robert needs hydrogen 12…precious semen. Sorry, it is unbelievable to me so do not react to me about this issue.

    7. Power issues…Do not forget that ertain people are more interested in politics/ power…that is their nature.

    8. Many have promised to be silent. No gossip or what ever and how they can silence their conscience.

    9. Many other reasons which I can not think about.

    There are so many people if you dare to ask and many will not be able to share the true although many blog pages ago I am not sure if it was “confused” who ran to her Russian friends who told her that the part of the sex was true.
    Many of our friends call this homosexuality. I doubt if this is homo sexuality. When you want to hve sex with so many men and they are not homo sexual but preferable hetero sexuality I see an element of power. Elements of power lead to abuse.
    Do you want this for yourself or children or grand children?
    Do you want one of your daughters or grand daughters in a relationship with one of Robert’s boys?

    Think ahead of time!


  241. #242 cyclops. Didn’t you state twice before that you had better things to do and you were leaving. Please do.


  242. on June 8, 2007 at 7:37 pm for the Best

    #243 Laura
    Hello to you , beautiful lady,
    remember you in the kitchen,
    hope you are well in your life.
    In friendship.
    Aline.


  243. The lawyer friend from Brownsville’s name is Douglas Guthormson.


  244. ah brucie baby!
    nope i said no such thing it must be your imagination or wishfull thinking. you seem a little homo phobic dear.
    “the only indication of genius i have is the amount of mistakes ive made” R B.
    The main reason i post is to help others not to have to suffer the things ive had to suffer. My only regret is that i didnt start sooner .
    “The psychiatrist knows only too well how each of us becomes the helpless but not pitiable victim of his own sentiments. Sentimentality is the superstructure erected upon brutality.”

    Ulysses: A Monologue (1932) James Joyce.


  245. I’d like to propose that uninformative language, rife with buzzwords and appeals to a commonality of experience, is a hallmark of Fellowship thinking and teaching. The basic allure of the message is: We share something important that nobody else knows about, and we are all in it together.

    To take a few examples right from the blog: Howard Carter posted several quotes by Robert at 11/116, to illustrate how self-remembering is related to prehistoric pictures. Thank you. As Ames pointed out nicely, “their semantic content adds up to zero”. Yet, over the years, Robert has learned to use big words to disguise the basic (lack of) meaning. As one of my teachers once said, “Sounding impressive often passes for deep thought.” Take a look:

    “The prehistoric tradition is the backbone of the esoteric.”
    – Prerequisite: you have to believe that there is such a thing as a “prehistoric tradition”. Pre-pre-requisite: you have to believe that Robert Burton interprets the world objectively. Loaded words: the prehistoric tradition, backbone, the esoteric. Form of statement: A is B. Translation: “What I claim to be true is really very important.”

    “Schools are indifferent to the form of the message, which is why we are able to understand the prehistoric.”
    – Prerequisite: you have to believe in the tradition of esoteric schools as interpreted by Robert Burton. Pre-prerequisite: you have to believe that Robert Burton knows for a fact what other schools in the past have been like. Loaded words: schools, the message, we, the prehistoric. Robert Burton speaks in all-embracing pronouncements in order to give himself some validity and credibility, hence the use of “schools” when he means “I” and the use of “we” when he means “I”. Form of statement: A, therefore B. Translation: “I don’t care what it looks like, it always means the Sequence – and that’s why I can interpret anything.”

    “A student asked why we are studying the prehistoric school, and I said that it is consistent with what we are doing – gathering the teachings of the schools before us.”
    – This is beautiful. He re-words the question to provide an answer. Loaded words: the prehistoric school, consistent, schools. Form of statement: A because B. Note how you could leave out “consistent with” and it would still mean the same thing. The word “consistent” is there only for impact, to evoke positive associations of what you want to be like in your work. Translation: “We are doing this because it is part of something we are already doing.”

    Similarly, if I look at the statement by King of Clubs, 11/193, 11/195, “Ex-members need to set up their own blog, because the octave has become too influential not to be householdered by one of us.” I can see this is still expressed in line with the Fellowship way of thinking. Loaded words: octave, influential, householdered, one of us. Translation: “I think ex-members should control the core of blog activity, because something bad might happen if ex-members are not the ones who control what is going on.” I don’t quite follow that reasoning.

    The Sheik mentioned above how limiting work language is. One of the reasons is that it operates subconsciously. When Robert or students use phrases that you are familiar with, you automatically think they must be correct. Language is mostly a tool of the rational and logical mind, but it is being used daily to act on your instinctive and emotional functions. Of course we all know that, and we explain it by saying “Robert is centered in the King of Hearts”, so he speaks to our emotions. He sways the emotions. Holds people in fascination. If you want to look at what he is saying rationally, you will be immediately dismissed: “Oh, you’re so intellectual…” And we all know that being intellectual is baaaaad and unhelpful. We can only understand Robert by abandoning reason. Well, at least that much is true.

    The Thoughts from the Teacher are full of eloquent formulations:

    Put your cleverness away: mere words will never unite you to the state we are in. Kabir
    In John 17:4, Jesus—the steward—said, “I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do”—I have completed the sequence. One of the most wonderful moments in our school was when we discovered the image of this prehistoric flute, dating to 34,000 BP. The flute, which looks like an obelisk, and represents the sequence, has four holes, representing the four wordless breaths. It is made from a vulture’s carcass, the vulture being a symbol of work ‘I’ number six, because it can soar effortlessly for prolonged periods at high altitudes. Quite interestingly, even though this flute is more than thirty thousand years old, it was found in 1939, the year I was born. Related to this, Ibn Arabi said, “God is one, unique, eternal, and perfect.” He names four attributes, like the four wordless breaths. (3-25-07)

    But imagine if the Thoughts came to you neutralized, in the form of actual informative content and everyday language:

    “Don’t be clever. You want to be in a higher state. Words won’t help.” (Kabir)
    “I did what you told me to do.” (Jesus)
    Robert: “This means Jesus is the steward and he used the sequence.
    Some students found a picture of a flute that is 34,000 years old. I thought that was awesome and that it will benefit the Fellowship. The shape of the flute reminds me of an obelisk. The flute means the sequence. The flute has four holes, they mean four wordless breaths. The material used to make the flute was the bone of a vulture. According to me, a vulture means the sixth work “I”: a vulture and the sixth work “I” are similar in that a vulture flies high for a long time without effort, and it’s the same with the end of the sequence.
    I find it fascinating that this flute was discovered in the same year as I was born (1939), and this seems surprising to me, because the flute is more than 30,000 years old.
    I think this is related to what Ibn Arabi said: God is one, unique, eternal and perfect. The reason it’s related is because the things Ibn Arabi mentioned about God, are four, just like four wordless breaths that I talk about.”

    Note how in the original Robert does not “own” his opinions. He projects them onto the School to become everyone’s opinion: “one of the most wonderful moments in our school was”, “a flute which looks like an obelisk” (yes, and a cigar among other things also looks like an obelisk, by the way), “being a symbol”. How much less convincing is it if I say “I think”, “this reminds me of” “it seems to me as if” – have you ever heard Robert speak like that? It’s strange, isn’t it? He can support the idea he is conscious because he sounds so sure of himself. People who sound sure of themselves sound like people who can be trusted. At least they know what they’re talking about, thank God.

    I guess I have to mention the misappropriation of quotations that has been staring everyone in the face for years but has been justified as a means to a valid end. Robert wants to show us something valuable, so he uses quotes to make his point. Okay, he may tailor the quotes (and pictures) a bit to suit his needs, but the point is still fair, we say. Don’t you see what’s happening? He’s using anything he can get his hands on from any past authority to support his own fantasy, and we are asked to play along in the interest of a greater good. He is exploiting magical thinking in students who unconsciously believe in “greatness by association” – by placing himself in the same context with Kabir, Rumi, Whitman, or other people that you have found inspiring, he takes credit for your inspiration and will now reinterpret it for you so that you will understand it “correctly”. He creates these people in his own image. Some students are actually literally believing that the sequence has been known for 30,000 years and used by Buddha, Christ, Lao-Tze and the rest of them! (Other students who don’t believe it, live in a split personality.) Because we agreed to play along. Because it’s intended to make us more emotional. We allow the first step, we close one eye when he kind of doesn’t make sense, and it’s all downhill from there.

    Do you ever hear Robert babbling? His thoughts running on in a perpetual non-sequitur? What did you feel when you read the part about him being born in 1939 and the 30,000 years of the flute? Is he making sense? Is that an expression of his consciousness which you are yet to fathom? Or of his fascination with himself and fixation on numbers?

    A fixed idea is typically a decision or conclusion the person has made on his own at some point that has set up an automatic way of dealing with life. It is one specific idea that is regarded as having great value for the person, but which he isn’t conscious of using. He uses it as truth, and it appears to make everything right for him. It is a fixed, aberrated way of handling life. It is a way of being right. Often it involves making others wrong at the same time. The fixed idea makes a certain concept or behavior the right way, per definition. The person has a blind spot about the fixed idea. He doesn’t know he is using it. He is so confident about it that he never has to re-evaluate it. If he gets close to it by himself it just appears as obvious truth and he doesn’t look any further.

    I think Robert has a fixed idea that angels are communicating with him through numbers, and some students (especially Girard) have a fixed idea that Robert is something called a “conscious being” and therefore his interpretations of the world are objective and true no matter what. But of course, real students know that it’s not just a fixed idea, because they happen to know that it’s true and it’s just that all those billions of life people out there are so asleep that they can’t see it. Of course.

    But the original question was, what is the connection between keying ancient images and self-remembering? I never got it, obviously, so this is my speculation of how it happens. You are given an image, for example, a 15.000 year-old picture on a cave wall, and told that it represents ancient esoteric knowledge, exactly the same knowledge that the Fellowship possesses (5 deer heads over a black stripe = entering the 3rd state through the sequence of 6 steps and controlling 72 divisions of centers). Is it the sheer magnitude of the idea, that you are discovering something not understood by anyone else on the planet, that just makes you quiver and gape in awe, and then that brings you closer to self-remembering?

    I wanted to look at some of the Newspeak produced by the Fellowship. And I’m not talking only about expressions like “the sequence” and “the steward” that you need a name for if you’re going to invent a concept and talk about it. It’s subtler than simple units of reference. It’s emotional. It penetrates the heart directly, and if you have learned to turn your head off as unhelpful to your evolution, it does not enter the mind to question the implications of promotional language. You repeat the set phrases designed to evoke a certain feeling, and eventually this becomes the only way you are able to express yourself.

    “2006 was the year of the sequence, and what we accomplished in understanding the system exceeded all of our expectations.” –Robert

    In the Fellowship, you are repeatedly told what you (we) are thinking and feeling and what state you (we) are in. I know all the arguments, it is only for our own good, and even if it’s not true yet, it’s to encourage us to really think and feel that way, to induce us to really manifest that higher state. Doesn’t that strike you as eerily similar to The Secret? Doesn’t it seem like a hypnotic technique? Maybe you think that’s really useful, but I find it incredibly manipulative and naïve on the part of the students. It works for producing obedient malleable smiling content people, and to me that’s a particularly high evolutionary achievement.

    “Safeguarding the nine of hearts from drifting into imagination for fifteen seconds after you have completed the sequence is the greatest achievement in the universe.” –Robert, Jan 5, 2007

    Once upon a time, we were told not to express ourselves in absolutes, because it would be lying. Robert, however, is not being grandiose, he is being conscious, so he really knows what he is talking about when he says “greatest achievement in the universe”. If our reason accidentally kicks in, we explain him away, and we say, well, he didn’t mean it that way, he has to speak like that to shake us out of our sleep, it’s supposed to be emotional and evocative. Right. Just like he didn’t really literally mean

    “To make the machine conscious and immortal is the ultimate task, and to achieve this, everything is asked from us.” – Robert, May 17, 2007

    Nowadays Robert doesn’t talk about predictions much publicly any more. He doesn’t have to. The core of his students have internalized the idea that the Fellowship is the last conscious school on Earth at the end of this civilization. Robert only needs to hint at it.

    “The beautiful Egyptian artworks are sacred messages from the first school to the last school.” – Robert, January 2, 2007

    Note the emotions contained in the “sacred messages” and “the last school”. It could make one cry. No wonder people become so attached to the Fellowship if it gives their life such a deep purpose in God’s grand scheme of things.

    ‘The sequence has the incredible privilege of associating with divine presence. By transforming the lower self we produce the pearl of great price – divine presence. Stay away from ‘I’s unrelated to your precious sequence; fast from lifeless, unconscious thoughts. When third eye is doing everything it can to escape from the tentacles of imagination and the diabolical control of the lower self, it does so with ‘Be’. What a mercy it was when they delivered the sequence to us; we can all be conscious beings now. All schools teach us the same thing – how to begin and complete sequences. It is critical to begin a new sequence as soon as the old one is exhausted.’ -Robert

    Again, little actual informative content, mostly loaded phrases evoking imagery of a great, formidable, noble and epic battle between good and evil, spanning countless centuries, delivered fresh to your inbox every day for you to feel special about: “incredible privilege”, “divine presence”, “pearl of great price”, “precious sequence”, “lifeless thoughts”, “tentacles of imagination”, “diabolical control”, “delivered the sequence”, “conscious beings”, “all schools”…

    But you have seen that presence is everything, and you insist that this is all about presence.

    If that is so, dear Friends, please enjoy your wonderful and inspirational teaching events and intimate buffets for 30 with our Beloved Teacher, dining at cozy tables with special friends in gentle conversation, followed by charming concerts. Afterwards, you might wish to take advantage of the wonderful opportunity to take a beautiful photograph with our Beloved Teacher. Group discounts (up to 3 people) will be available. Cash and checks accepted. I also invite you to take part in the 2nd auction this year to resume construction of the Theatron – please help raise tens of thousands of dollars so we can share more moments of presence in this very special place. Purchase your tickets online. You will also have the pleasure of experiencing our newest dining venue at the Nile Garden Terrace. Treat yourself to a wonderful teaching event ($150 sitting, $75 standing) and enjoy the spectacular view (look with presence) before the event. Please move with presence on the Path of Presence as you walk up to the dining event with our Beloved Teacher.

    With love and sugar-dripping presence,


    “Four legs good, two legs baaaaa-tter.” – The Sheep


  246. on June 8, 2007 at 8:09 pm Comic Relief

    Before deciding to start his own school and making the dangerous mistake of hiding behind C Influence to justify his actions, maybe RB should have listened to some omens they tried to give him through Dirty Harry (Clint Eastwood) whose movies came out JUST around that time:

    “He’s a legend in his own mind”.

    “A man’s GOT to know his limitations.”

    “This is a *44* magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and can blow your head CLEAN off. So the question you’ve got to ask yourself is, “Do I feel lucky?” ”

    “Whom the gods would destroy, they first make insane” – Roman Proverb


  247. #248 “The psychiatrist knows only too well how each of us becomes…” Carl Jung

    You’re a fool. I’m done with you.


  248. On the day of the earthquake in 1998 a large portion of our center in Moscow went to a cafe where the TV news were on, and sat there staring at the TV for many long hours, waiting to hear the news about the earthquake. I don’t remember if it was official “task” or if it was center directors initiative to do this. Earthquake didn’t happen, and we went home in awkward silence. We felt very confused.
    I wouldn’t say that most people didn’t believe in predictions. To my observation most of us had mixed feelings – kind of not believing and also thinking: What if he’s right? Some truly believed, and some people I personally know did get hurt by it financially very badly… Robert said that he is “saving student’s lives” when he very strictly demanded that all students from Bay area take few weeks off their jobs and move to Isis, which for many resulted in loss of their jobs. It was for real, not metaphorical. I never heard Robert ever apologize for causing so much suffering and difficulty to his students and I was actually hoping that he would. He blamed it on c-influence, and didn’t take any responsibility at all.
    Also, he hasn’t given up on this predictions stuff. Just in case you don’t remember, there were many, many “quake allerts” after 1998 in years to follow, when similar suggestions were made – not to fly to Bay area, get out of there during certain dates etc. Ask guys who lived in Galleria for a while how many times since 1998 they were preparing for the predicted quake, taking pictures off the walls, wraping fragile stuff to avoid breakage… This was not symbolic – this was very literal! Ask them – they may share some stories with you.
    Last time I personally heard of another California earthquake warning was as recent as December 2006, I think the dates were 26 or 27 but I don’t recall exactly. It was delivered to me by a devoted “inner circle” student, and he said this news were intended for inner circle only… (Thanks for including me, by the way!)
    So as you can see, RB’s obsession with prophecies is still going on. May be it’s uncurable. I have a feeling he is fascinated with disasters and death, somehow he tends to predict only “bad” stuff… How about some positive prediction, some good news for a change?


  249. on June 8, 2007 at 8:26 pm We Won't Get Fooled Again

    Traveler #249

    “Language is mostly a tool of the rational and logical mind, but it is being used daily to act on your instinctive and emotional functions.”

    Instinctive and emotional functions? Isn’t this FOF speak? Why pick and choose which brainwashing buzzwords you accept and reject, why not reject them all and the meanings behind them?


  250. Of course I meant to say: “To me, that’s NOT a particularly high evolutionary achievement”. :)


  251. “So as you can see, RB’s obsession with prophecies is still going on. May be it’s uncurable.”

    He knows he’s surrounded by sheep. What does he have to lose? Many people are so invested, in one way or another, they will never see the emperor is stone ass naked.


  252. 11/253 “Instinctive and emotional functions? Isn’t this FOF speak? Why pick and choose which brainwashing buzzwords you accept and reject, why not reject them all and the meanings behind them?”

    Yes, it is. I have thought about how to express this more clearly, so it would be universally understandable, but this was the best I could come up with. Obviously the consequences of brainwashing in me are still showing :) Can you help me say it in a better way?


  253. 253 We Won’t Get Fooled Again

    Ordinary science has proved in later decades that man has at least three different brains with three different functions. Check previous posts in the blog and infinite material in the net )or go to talk to scientists): this will keep your little grey matter occupied in something a little more interesting than its own formatory doubts.


  254. on June 8, 2007 at 9:01 pm We Won't Get Fooled Again

    Traveler #254

    “Of course I meant to say: “To me, that’s [NOT] a particularly high evolutionary achievement”. :)”

    Ever heard of Sigmund Freud?

    Traveler #249

    “Language is mostly a tool of the rational and logical mind, but it is being used daily to act on your instinctive and emotional functions.”

    (It’s not the scientific substantiation, stupid, it’s the “buzzwords”)

    I mean…who is going to be persuaded by an argument against Burton’s brainwashing buzzwords when you have to use Burton’s brainwashing buzzwords to explain the psychological effect of the brainwashing? You’ve got something more to work out here, obviously, and it may be better keep quiet until you do.

    This is all too silly.


  255. 11/258 We Won’t Get Fooled Again: Ever heard of Ad Hominem argumentation?


  256. on June 8, 2007 at 9:11 pm We Were There

    258 We Won’t Get Fooled Again

    You obviously are having a hard day.

    Rather than lashing out at others, it might be better to keep quiet until you are in a better mood.


  257. on June 8, 2007 at 9:20 pm We Won't Get Fooled Again

    We Were There #260

    258 We Won’t Get Fooled Again

    “You obviously are having a hard day.

    Rather than lashing out at others, it might be better to keep quiet until you are in a better mood.”

    You have a strangely low tolerance for what you consider “lashing out.” You mean any opposition to the general mindset that everything pointed out on this blog about Burton’s deficiencies is automatically intelligent?

    Look, I hate to use a “brainwashing buzzword” but most of the discussion about the FOF on this blog is right off the bottom of the deck, right out of the negative half of the jack-of-hearts.


  258. To Traveler regarding post #249;

    Thank you so much for putting into words my exact feeling towards the Fellowship and the reason I left a few weeks ago.
    I went to too many events where Robert told me what state I was in, and he was wrong. I scratched my head too many times trying to understand “Thoughts From The Teacher”, etc.

    Your comments were all spot-on in my opinion.


  259. on June 8, 2007 at 10:26 pm Skeptical Optimist

    257 Golb

    I believe Howard Gardner pioneered this field in his Frames of Mind. The theory of multiple intelligences.

    They are:

    Linguistic intelligence (“word smart”):
    Logical-mathematical intelligence (“number/reasoning smart”)
    Spatial intelligence (“picture smart”)
    Bodily-Kinesthetic intelligence (“body smart”)
    Musical intelligence (“music smart”)
    Interpersonal intelligence (“people smart”)
    Intrapersonal intelligence (“self smart”)
    Naturalist intelligence (“nature smart”)

    An interesting read, and shows the FoF-type of explanations of intelligence embarassingly simplistic and shallow.

    JoelF


  260. #262

    RB is right in not pointing out anymore what Ouspensky and Gurdijeff tryed to teach again in the west: that we are not lang and we are not even steven.

    Our true identity is not the character with its personality and even essence, we are the divine presence to most of their moods and often contradictory feelings going on and on during the lifetime of the machinery.

    At least having verifyed and remembering this knowledge changes the parameters to all the sense of I, me, my, in your post.

    Robert is not wrong: he address an identity that if is not verified, grasped and remembered in the first years of work on oneself and on, there is no point in continuing the Work to unveil the Truth of our Real Self.

    And then it is better to just live as best as possible the life of the semi-conscious vibrant character for what it is: it also deserve respect.


  261. #263
    Both of you missed :
    Enigmatic intelligence (“crosswords smart”)
    DaimlerChrysler intelligence (“Smart”)

    Take nothing seriously but…..

    Greetings from Paxse.

    “Less Skepticism, More Optimism.”


  262. on June 8, 2007 at 10:47 pm Nappy Headed 'Ho

    steve lang
    To Traveler regarding post #249;

    Thank you so much for putting into words my exact feeling towards the Fellowship and the reason I left a few weeks ago.
    I went to too many events where Robert told me what state I was in, and he was wrong. I scratched my head too many times trying to understand “Thoughts From The Teacher”, etc.

    Your comments were all spot-on in my opinion.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    I also just left yesterday, but after reading what Traveler wrote I’m going back in before I end up talking myself into a weirdly complicated state of self-satisfied idiocy. Thanks.


  263. Eveyone is where they should be


  264. Paxse


  265. “The Absolute is pleased that this Tremendous Traveler (#249), sounding the divine BE of Reasoned Rationality, has wafted our Sacred School to Immortal Ideation”
    -Robert Burton, tomorrow night, a bit tipsy after his fourth glass of prostate elixir and ad-libbing a toast.

    For another brilliant post analysing Burton’s creative communications, see
    http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-3/#comment-4058
    from George Orwell – “Words are used as a mood-enhancer, or background — like Muzak, or wallpaper.”


  266. on June 8, 2007 at 11:42 pm To the moderator

    Dear moderator:

    Posts by ‘cyclops’ (Ex: 77) and others contain clear racist material that is completely irrelevant to any subject matter or context of this blog. Those who are posting such material are turning this blog into a platform for spreading anti-Semitism.

    Since these posts are repetitive, it is clear that they are being approved by you as a moderator and they are regarded by you as a legitimate public material.

    I am personally offended by these posts.

    After getting legal counseling on this matter I would like to inform you the legality of such posts is questionable. Legally, in relation to publishing racism, this blog is no different from any printed newspaper or any other media and as a moderator you role here is no different than of a newspaper editor who is subject to lawsuits.


  267. on June 8, 2007 at 11:51 pm To the moderator

    Dear moderator:

    Posts by ‘cyclops’ (Ex: 77) and others contain clear racist material that is completely irrelevant to any subject matter or context of this blog.

    Thos who are posting such material are turning this blog into a platform for spreading anti-Semitism.

    I am personally offended by these posts.

    Since these posts are repetitive, it is clear that they are being approved by you as a moderator and they are regarded by you as a legitimate public material.

    After getting legal counseling on this matter I would like to inform you the legality of such posts is questionable.

    Legally, in relation to publishing racism, this blog is no different from any printed newspaper or any other media and as a moderator you role here is no different than of a newspaper editor who is subject to lawsuits.


  268. on June 8, 2007 at 11:51 pm Laughing Love

    To Traveler (249 & 259)

    I think you’re discussing good, old fashioned critical thinking skills, which, by necessity, a person in a cult neglects.

    There are several types of logical fallacies. They include:

    Ad Hominem: this literally means “against the person.” When a claim is rejected based simply on the person making it and not on the evidence the person has put forth, it is an ad hominem logical fallacy. The person, not the claim, is attacked. This happens quite a bit on this discussion board.

    Slippery slope: Slippery-slope arguments are based on the idea that if one thing happens, then another thing will, then another, and another. Think of this as the “domino effect.”

    Anecdotal Fallacy (also called a Hasty Generalization or Jumping to Conclusions): This is an inductive fallacy that occurs when one instance supports a general claim that is
    not true. “I left the School and therefore everyone should leave the School.” OR: I am in the School and, therefore, any who is not should be.”

    Mistaking Time for Cause and Effect: Just because one thing happened prior to another does not mean the first caused the
    second, yet frequently people will argue just that. “When so and so left the School, the went bankrupt as a result.”

    False Authority: When we trust authorities, we need to make sure they are authorities on what they are speaking to.

    Either-Or Dilemmas: “It’s your choice — either be in the Fellowship or become moon food.” Are these really the only
    two options?

    Circular Reasoning (also called Begging the Question): This happens when an assumption is used to prove the same assumption is true. In other words, the conclusion simply puts the assumption in other words.

    I teach this stuff and, in my observation, critical thinking skills are more and more rare.

    I guess I thought it was interesting that, in general, one must constantly create logical fallacies in order to justify remaining in the Fellowship.

    LL


  269. on June 8, 2007 at 11:58 pm Laughing Love

    To: We Won’t Get Fooled Again (253)

    I’ve had the same thoughts.

    I’m often surprised when ex-students continue to use the language.

    Eventually I realized that, in part, some may still place value on the experience and don’t negate it all, which may or may not be “healthy”.

    I think the last thing to leave me after I left the school were the silly superstitions.

    LL


  270. on June 9, 2007 at 12:00 am We Were There

    RB is a master salesman, and his product is ‘certainty.’

    He promises that those who believe in and follow him are certain of a heavenly reward and that those who reject him are certain to burn in hell (explaining that those who leave do so because they want comfort, not spiritual development).

    I see it differently.

    In my view, ‘uncertainty’ is the reality of the human condition – in or out of the Fellowship of Friends – and uncertainty is not comfortable.

    For thirty-five years RB has been selling his ‘certainty’ – and the comfort that comes with it. That comfort is the reason many stay members.

    And quitre a few who don’t believe his promises any more continue to pay him as a kind of ‘insurance’ just in case he IS right. After all, “it’s only money, and what do I have to lose?”

    This buffers the uncomfortable fact that supporting the Fellowship (even passively) lends it legitimacy and encourages the young, the new and the vulnerable to trust and to believe.


  271. Most people on this blog are probably not familiar with the most recent teachings.

    The teachings are one of the most important aspects to consider since they keep people in the school. 249 Traveler gives some idea of what is going on.

    But for those of you on the blog who haven’t been in the “school” for the last four years the teaching has changed course away from Forth Way and Ouspensky and G no longer serve as the foundation. Much of the teachers ideas and terminology have also changed as well, e.g. you rarely hear about Leonardo anymore.

    My recollection is that soon after a meeting on “know thyself” personal angles were not considered for Sunday meetings and the teacher started delving into the Sufis and the bible among others. Students were asked to stop reading forth way material and the teacher went in a new direction.

    During this period Girard seems to have become marginalized (a few Giradites- ardent followers of Girard still follow his struggles to interpret the new teaching with the desperate hope of making sense of it in forth way terminology.) and a new being Asaf has been developed to replace Girard. Asaf has been pivotal in helping Robert establish the new teaching. Rumor is that he is conscious, but like Girard in days of old he denies it for now.

    Anyway, the new teaching advocates that the idea that being present is ancient and goes back to prehistoric times and that is part of some secrect message carried on by schools. the Fellowship is the last school in humanity and its job is synthesize the info. from all other schools, e.g. sufis, gothics, christians, moslems, jews, egyptians, prehistoric peoples, etc.. The teacher got a windfall of material from Egypt, and the “school” took several trips there to study Egyptian art and architecture. During this period the teaching became more arcane and dogmatic. Everything was related to presence, or the sequence. The teacher is constantly is telling everyone we are present, and the school has been a money making frenzy for the last few years pushing students to give as much as possible and buy raffle tickets, auction items etc. The property was developed to a large extent during this period as well and the teacher become more inacessible except during paying teaching events. Several prominent students also died during this time. The property was reanamed to Isis and many world class ballets were performed in a newly made greek theatron. The winery is no longer a focus.

    Getting back to the teaching, the main point is this idea called the sequence. The sequence is a series of six syllabus used to introduce and prolong presence. I it goes something like this (coordinate with your breathing)

    1) Be
    2) Hold
    3)subject e.g. look, taste, feel, hear, etc.
    4)back e.g. go back to presence
    5)subject
    6)long Be e.g. be present

    You are supposed to repeat this until you are present. When you are present, you stop because it is the Sabbath. You no longer need to seek because you have found. For worldess breaths.

    The sequence seems to be a form of prayer to protect you from being possessed by the devil (King of Clubs).

    The devil is the king of clubs (a direct key illustrated in numerous pictures and text by the teacher)

    The steward as the nine of hearts, an angel that brings the keys to heaven by helping you to promote presence(world twelve).

    Imagination is keyed as evil. Sin. To be in imagination is to be in a state of sin. To be possessed by the devil.

    Many students say that someone is “possessed by their king of clubs” if they question the teaching, have thoughts about putting their interests above the schools, or if they leave the school.
    ——-

    Basically if you are not using the sequence…(prayer)…you are sinful..(in imagination)…and therefore possessed by your lowerself..(the devil)…if you do not become present…(in a redeemed state…heaven)…you will forever be asleep…(in hell).
    —-

    Basically, the “school” seems to be a version of fundamentalist Christian religion put into a more exotic package.

    Personally, I do not buy the claim that the teaching is a new way, or a veiled reference, to the system. Some students insist the teacher is not being literal, and this the king of clubs, devil for example is just a metaphor for lower self, etc.

    If you actually attend teaching events, pay to watch the numerous DVD’s at center events, or read the weekly thoughts from the teacher it is stretch to say these ideas are a metaphor and they are presented in a deadly serious manner as some of the most important ideas in the history of schools. This does not seem to be the system dressed in new clothes. It seems to be religion.

    I would like others familiar with the current teaching to comment on this interpretation.


  272. on June 9, 2007 at 12:25 am No Body Is Going to the Moon

    There is no need to separate the work ideas from the Fellowship because neither is necessary, nothing is wrong. No one is going to the moon. Life is good, God is great and death will be nice. Don’t worry, be calm, stay calm, there is no need for more consciousness than what we have now. Put it all out of your mind. I’m OK, you’re OK. OK? Everyone agree?


  273. Dear friends.
    A definition of identification or attachment as something one just cant let go, one cannot resist. Whenever that subject comes up one simply has to respond.

    Take heed that no man decieve you. Mathew 24:4.


  274. re: #271

    Sheikh,

    You might pay attention to this post. This may be a preliminary warning to a legal challenge by the FOF.


  275. on June 9, 2007 at 12:48 am The Bottom Line

    Moon Angel 275

    It appears that Burton is completely nuts, but then there is all that money. Could a crazy man really make himself that wealthy by simply talking?


  276. on June 9, 2007 at 12:56 am Truth is Where You Find It

    Laughing Love (272):

    Thank you for posting that short course in critical thinking.

    These techniques have been around since at least Roman times and were taught as one of the 7 disciplines, called Oratory. It is humbling to realize that the Roman senators knew the same verbal “sales techniques” over 2,000 years ago that we are still using, wittingly or nit-wittingly, on this blog. It appears human nature hasn’t changed much, only the trappings.

    And why is this not taught as a major subject in our schools? In an increasingly global consumer society, probably the last thing the “sellers’ of both consumer goods and “consumer ideas” wish to promote is critical thinking.


  277. on June 9, 2007 at 1:16 am Garrett Browning

    Seems like humility and wisdom grow from relentless observation and unflinching integrity.

    Haven’t we learned that we don’t have to be right; and, to take care when we’re too sure about what we know?

    Mary Oliver’s NEW AND SELECTED POEMS, Vol 1
    Pema Chodron’s WHEN THINGS FALL APART


  278. on June 9, 2007 at 1:59 am Laughing Love

    To: Truth is Where You Find It

    Yes, it is amazing that these ideas have been around for so long.

    I guess they really are just cheap saleperson tactics.

    It’s amazing to really realize how mundane cult tactics are.

    You’ll be happy to hear that I teach at the college level & attempt to teach critical thinking skills in all courses.

    Admittedly, it is amazingly challenging.

    Teaching how to address counter-arguments is particularly difficult because my students cannot believe that they should profoundly consider the opposition’s point of view in order to arrive at clear conclusions and, therefore, strengthen their own argument. Instead, they want to ignore the opposing viewpoints and wish them away rather than conceding points and addressing them head on with the courage of their well-informed convictions.

    Again, my observation of some of the interactions on this board in which one wishes to argue a point, are very silly and ineffective because persons, particularly Fellowship students, but including ex-members, don’t directly address points offered by the “opposition”.

    Instead, they say something in a babyish fashion, like, “Nuh, uh. You’re stupid.”

    Or they use sarcasm, which is funny (NOT), to address what may be a well posed question or comment.

    Sorry for the Ali G (Borat) reference. He is a master at exposing the sleeping machine. He’s awakened hundreds with his humorous tactics.

    For godssake, Sacha Baron Cohen (who plays a number of hilarious characters) wakes us all up in a flash with his comic genius. I wish he could secure an interview with Robert Burton.

    Does Robert give interviews?

    LL


  279. A comment about the universal language (work words) of the Fourth Way.

    “There is no word used in this system that does not refer to a distinct idea with tremendous meaning. When you have built into you the ideas of the work as a receptive organism—not in your external life-serving man, through outer superficial thought, but in your inner real, essential man, through seeing and feeling their truth privately, especially in your most lonely moments—then the ideas behind your words will be similiar to the ideas behind the words of another person in the work who understands the work as you do. So you have a common language. And this shews you who is your neighbour in the esoteric sense. It is necessary to “love your neighbour—not from mechanical but from conscious intercourse. And so you begin to understand one another—a most extraordinary experience. Then everything becomes quite different in regard to relationship to others. You all have the means. What do you make of them—that is, apart from mechanical impact with each other, which one must observe”?

    Maurice Nicoll, Fourth Way student writing in his “B” influence books, “Psychological Commentaries volume 3.


  280. “…you are content to live as drudging money suppliers for an evil authoritarian fag…”

    I guess gay bashing is in, huh? What if it read:
    “… you are content to live as drudging money suppliers for an evil authoritarian Jew fag…”

    Any takers?


  281. #284

    Unbelievable.


  282. 249 Traveler

    Interesting post! I enjoyed reading it

    283 arthur

    “universal language (work words) of the Fourth Way.”

    I want to echo that these “work words” were invented to try to create a more objective way of communicating these ideas.
    I remember the guy who sold the Oregon House grocery store was once asked by the local paper if he thought the FOF was a cult. He said if you got 5 members in a room they wouldn’t be able to agree on anything!


  283. 285 Bruce.

    Mechanical.


  284. Does Caligula’s Isis now contain a mini-enclave of supremacists, or just one cowardly, very screwed up individual?


  285. #251 BruceBruce

    “You’re a fool. I’m done with you.”

    Ditto.


  286. Shiek,

    Please edit these vulgar posts.

    They are childish, horrid and oh so painfully boring.

    I appreciate it.

    Moon angel


  287. To #270 To the moderator

    I think you should seek new legal counsel and stop making your not-so-subtle threats against the Sheik (note the subhead to this group title: “Free Speech is a Dirty Business”). While cyclops’s post #77 is written in a provocative manner, and is frankly, rather adolescent and (yes) moronic, it certainly does not cross any lines as far as free-speech expression laws in the USA and most of Europe, that I know of.
    In fact, the poster states he has no hate for jews or gays.
    I am not defending or supporting cyclops or his opinions, but I will defend his right to express them.
    He is obviously trying to stir up the pot on the blog, much in the way LOL and @$^&#), or whatever his name is, who have posted personally insulting and idiotic, posts addressed to specifically named people. I could be personally offended by some of these posts, but I understand, that every fool is entitled to their opinion, as long a no threats of violence or slanderous lies are published.
    By the way, what relevance to any subject matter or context of this blog, does your post have? Were you or are you in FOF? If you have been following this blog, you surely have noticed what a free-for-all of personal opinion this blog is. In most free societies, this is considered free-speech, no matter how “personally” offensive.


  288. Posts by ‘cyclops’ (Ex: 77) and others contain clear racist material that is completely irrelevant to any subject matter or context of this blog.

    Thos who are posting such material are turning this blog into a platform for spreading anti-Semitism.

    I am personally offended by these posts.

    Since these posts are repetitive, it is clear that they are being approved by you as a moderator and they are regarded by you as a legitimate public material.

    After getting legal counseling on this matter I would like to inform you the legality of such posts is questionable.

    Legally, in relation to publishing racism, this blog is no different from any printed newspaper or any other media and as a moderator you role here is no different than of a newspaper editor who is subject to lawsuits.

    wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

    Just how uneducated to you imagine people are? There is a constitutional right to express racial slurs, prejudices and so on. Americans have a right, and many Europeans too, to be as openly ignorant and as ugly as they like and there is no criminal and little civil recourse. You can say it, print it and make movies promoting it here in the United States of America and most countries of Europe. You need to get much better legal counsel.

    What you could go for is a violation of terms of service with the blog provider and have the blog deleted, at best.


  289. Dear Sheik, after few recent immature and simply stupid posts I have a whole new appreciation for your moderation effort. I only wonder how many of those did you have to read/delete per day?
    I do enjoy the “real time” format very much, but – PLEASE, guys, can we keep it civilized? Must we post mutual insults and racist stuff? Must we react with more insults? What’s the point?
    Peace


  290. Yesterday I was on a flight from San Francisco to Frankfurt. Sitting next to me was a lady who I got into conversation with. She is a Professor of Archeology at Berkeley and when I ask her what here specialty is, she says ‘the cave paintings found in Southern France and Germany”. She is on her way to France to conduct a tour party through the caves. “Hmmmmm”, I think to myself, having been reading about RBs comments on this subject (such as posted by HC in 11/116).

    So, confessing my ignorance, I ask her what they are all about. She tells me they are clearly of spiritual significance. For the most part they are pictures of horses and bison, which are not the animals which they hunted and ate. Seems these caves are way deep in the ground. Very dark, No light. No sound. Maybe just the sound of a water drip. Spending hours or days down there in there and would produce different states of consciousness. (Made me think of Tibetan monks sealing themselves off to meditate). Perhaps the paintings were there to help the spiritual teachers of that day communicate their insights with the members of the community.

    I suppose RB’s comments on poop are what have made many of this think that he has gone quite of his rocker. So I ask her if she knows any spiritual significance to depictions of the animals defecating, or the number of turds. To my surprise, she was not perturbed by this question at all. She says she does not know of any significance, but would not rule that out. To her, there were many spiritual worlds. We view the past though the lens of our current experience and this can be very limited. Further, in hunting societies, animal droppings do play an important part in finding and tracking the creatures. Also, archeologists are the kind of people who do study these kind of remains. Well, clearly not a ringing endorsement for the sequence or whatever, but she did not pooh-pooh the spiritual significance either (tee-hee)!

    It leaves me kind of curious about these cave paintings. I even asked her about how to go about visiting the caves to take a look……

    Chortle Mortal


  291. on June 9, 2007 at 4:50 am Was KathleenW

    In post #88 dated June 7, Sheik said:

    “Free speech is a dirty business but I try to give it free reign. I have been deleting comments before, in the next couple of days you may come to realize what kind of comments I have been deleting (I won’t delete anything for a short trial period) and for what reason. Yes, there are some disturbed/disturbing characters among us.”

    Perhaps the insults and racist stuff is what Sheik has been deleting until very recently.


  292. Enjoy your weekend Lovers!

    May the frog be with you.

    http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=750885876

    Love to you all.


  293. #293 No Person
    “Must we post mutual insults and racist stuff? Must we react with more insults? What’s the point?”

    Auntie Em! Auntie Em!!
    The point is this: If you are/were a student you would have seen that there were two things going on here: One: a level of identification at work. Identification with words. The words themselves are neutral, what gives them power are our own identification with them.
    Also, Two: there was the “photographing” of the identification.
    Nothing more, nothing less.
    Although some people wish to turn the forum into a mutual admiration society, like the FOF, all smiles and nicety and falseness, some of us wish to just let the machine react and watch the play without trying to change the script into a politically correct response.
    Its probably a deeper level of work you have never heard of….


  294. Dear Traveler,
    I have read all your posts with interest. Thanks for it all. Your contributions, along with many others, help me very much. I wish I knew you. I am at least glad you are out there in my virtual world.

    Re: your last post: many thanks.
    You deconstruct “charisma” to its unexciting components. You identify the linguistic mechanisms that subjugate intelligence & critical thinking. You help reveal the basis of an emasculating & demeaning obsession with an abusive & exploitative man.
    An aspect of Robert’s pageantry is language & gesture; he animates his version of the mythology of “Awakening” (with all its supporting constructs: “Conscious School”, “Conscious Teacher”, “Conscious Knowledge”, “Work on oneself”) by deliberate use of gesture & language: a kind of theatre.

    For a year after leaving the FOF, I was mired in questions such as:
    “Might Robert be a little bit conscious?”
    “Could the FOF be a little bit good? real?, purposeful?”
    “Was there a little value in the whole experience?”
    “Maybe it works for some people”
    (I now see these same themes agonized on the blog among ex-members who strain to save themselves from the terrible possibility that the school is not “real” – all a deception.)
    After more distance & time, I can say, in answer to all those questions, NO NO NO!
    Time & distance mitigates the sense of my own folly and reconciles the guilt, embarrassment, waste, regrets. I no longer need to find any value in the experience that might justify all the real losses over the years.
    And now I can say it: the whole phenomenon of the FOF is an illusion. Yes, Robert IS delusional & dysfunctional; Robert has nothing – not even maturity or common capacities. Even worse, he can appear sincere because he is susceptible to his own delusions.
    My path out of the School has lead me way beyond a susceptibility to any spiritual products & packaging. I now perceive the notions of “awakening”, “spiritual path”, “school”, following a “teacher” to “enlightenment” as a grand mythology that attracts specific types of people with predictable, identifiable dependencies & personality characteristics (well researched & documented).
    I am one such person.
    Most long-term students probably are.
    Most long-term members of any similar spiritual groups are probably driven by the same difficulties and compensatory mechanisms as long-term FOF-ers.
    On a societal scale, nothing extraordinary has happened here – the phenomenon of the FOF is commonplace & predictable. You can’t prevent groups like the FOF from appearing. There will always be types like you & me & Robert.

    Traveler, ignore bloggers that strain to find fault with your exposition. By identifying the few (perceived) anomalies, they implicitly validate the remainder. By attempting (they hope) to invalidate the entire analysis on the basis of these perceived anomalies, they appear petty-minded & reveal their own tensions. Anyway, I can tell from your posts that you are in no need of my reassurances.


  295. #294 Holy Shit

    Hmmmmm. The idea of the paintings as a document from ‘schools’ is something Gurdjiev said, actually. If you read “Idiots in Paris” by Bennett’s wife you will find many references to their trips to the caves in France.
    I do remember G. commenting on the number of horns on the head of the animals indicated their level of being. Don’t think he mentioned the poop….


  296. I don’t mind the longer well-thought out and spell checked posts of others, in or out. As RB would say, keep ‘em coming. I can do without the conspiracy theories with racist overtones…although I can vouch for Cyclops’s accurate description of a certain notorious member…and can understand the wide range of mind numbing emotions one might experience processing one’s twisted experiences with one’s spiritual master.

    Traveler #249 Thanks for your post. I think you’ve made a valiant effort at uncovering the subtle manipulation of a person’s belief system through clever use of language. Finding the terminology to express what goes unsaid or implied is inherently difficult.

    I also have been mulling over Robert Burton’s quotes that the former life person, Howard Carter, so humbly provided.

    RB: “The prehistoric tradition is the backbone of the esoteric.”

    This quote gets my dander up for other reasons than you cite. We can conclude that the teacher, Robert Burton gets an “F” on the subject of prophecy, ‘c-influence’ needing to ‘humble’ him (by his own admission and in a surprising way), indicating to me and hopefully others that ‘c-influence’ does not seem to have a very high regard for the dude.

    I wonder what ‘humbling’ c-influence has up its sleeve for him vis á vis his current penchant for gandering into the past. I gather that with ‘the prehistoric tradition’ (hindsight always being 20-20 vision) he is less subject to getting his ‘interpretations’ wrong. We can forgive speculations about the historical past more easily than about the future when lives are hanging in the balance.

    RB: “Schools are indifferent to the form of the message, which is why we are able to understand the prehistoric.”

    Meaning his intellect is whore to his delusion of grandiosity. He (his school of thought) has a theory about the ‘sequence’ and sets about fabricating historical or esoteric ‘proof’ to support the ‘theory’ indifferent to any ‘form’ or scholarship. Gee, I wonder, are his ‘researchers’ biased or neutral? Reminds me of cooking the ‘intelligence’ data to get us into Iraq…

    Countless nefarious scientific theories, some intricately more well thought out and researched than his ‘sequence’ theory have risen, become the status quo, faltered, and promptly gone extinct, as I am sure his will in due time. Once the world was flat, and the earth was center of the universe.

    I think that deep down RB knows he has relied on the borrowed teachings of others and the sequence is his last ditch, vain effort to leave his mark. His true sordid legacy will likely be less subject to FOF spin or propaganda.

    RB: “A student asked why we are studying the prehistoric school, and I said that it is consistent with what we are doing – gathering the teachings of the schools before us.”

    This statement uses the device of presupposition. One must presuppose there was such a ‘prehistoric school’ in the first place and secondly, that the FOF is also a ‘school’ in a tradition based upon some sort of lineage. Once you are onboard with the belief that the FOF is a school then by default you are also onboard that the teacher sets the agenda ‘consistent with what we are (I am) doing’. There is little room for argument or debate. You are either with us or against us. Now where have I heard that before?

    Laughing Love # 272

    Thanks for your well informed post, too. If I could redo my college major, it would be the fascinating study of rhetoric. Language is the key to thought. There is indeed a dearth of critical thinking today.

    More history needed? #244

    “When you want to have sex with so many men and they are not homosexual but prefer hetero-sexuality I see an element of power. Elements of power lead to abuse.”

    It dawned on me that Robert might prefer (or in the past preferred) straight, young, male paying members of his religious community because they are less likely to talk about it later out of shame, guilt, or embarrassment. It took me 22 years to be able to discuss the subject as openly as I have and break the code of silence. The experiences make a lasting imprint, as others in servitude will agree.


  297. Dear Exlax,
    Yes I’ve never heard of such deep levels of work, and frankly not interested. I am kind of done working, sorry.. It’s play time now.
    Yes, it’s fine to just watch it all – the play, machine, reactions etc. It’s all has it’s life, it’s existence. I just naturally enjoy politeness more than rudeness, just like I prefer sweet smells to awful stinks… It’s all natural, all happens, but some stuff is more pleasant you know. I am not big on intentional suffering. If there is a skunk stink – I naturally want some fresh air…
    Niceness is not always false, and words are not always neutral…


  298. dear sheik,

    if there is any meaning in this blog for informing current members and potential members it’s getting lost right now. Just read the last 100 posts. Without a specific aim or interest, one would not continue reading them. A spiritual interested person would probably be put of right away. I am a current member and still believe in the school and Robert (with some relativity by now due to your blog), but I also think the school should be able to stand this criticism. So please provide this for me and all others you want to save.


  299. #296
    Exlax 101

    “Although some people wish to turn the forum into a mutual admiration society, like the FOF, all smiles and nicety and falseness, some of us wish to just let the machine react and watch the play without trying to change the script into a politically correct response.”

    Very astute observation.


  300. This blog has now its own momentum, kind of unbelievable that approximately two thousand people seem to be tuning in daily to take a look…quite a few people posting, for different reasons, not just one specific aim, and I doubt very much the sheik is trying to save anyone! Ain’t gonna happen on this blog!

    People are looking for different reasons, but one is for sure, check out if there is something juicy going on!


  301. Thank you for the memorial list.

    Does anyone know what has happened to David Guido?

    So many lost friends Dorothy was in the San Diego center
    when I joined the FOF. I think she had a dance school in escondido. The directors were Jan Allen and John Graham.

    I slept in a sleeping bag for months in the living room of the Lincoln Lodge next to Doris Elizibeth. her only comfort was to use the couch instead of the floor.

    Randolph with his beautiful voice,
    I remember his leading the choir in Bach.

    I shared a house in Costa Mesa with Neal O’Brian.

    Mildred Smith was the center director in Phoenix with Vincent when I went to open that center.

    Also thank you for the photo’s of the get together. Yes a bunch of normal unpretentious people.


  302. #283
    “No syllable of the thirty work ‘I’s doesn’t refer to a word used in the system which in turn refers to a distinct idea with tremendous meaning…… etc.

    Thanks Arthur
    (from someone that has read and studied all the commentaries in its own times. BTW do you have an E-Texts of them?)


  303. on June 9, 2007 at 8:00 am Truth is Where You Find It

    To Laughing Love (282):

    I did not mean to imply that the logical falacies/types of oratorical argument that you describe were merely “cheap saleperson tactics”. They probably evolved over time from very astute observations of human nature and were seen as clever ways to derail critical thinking by pressing the right emotional or intellectual buttons. There must be something to them since they have survived intact for over 2,000 years and are as effective now as ever, especially on those who do not realize they are being duped.

    Law students may know them by their Latin names, which have even appeared as episode titles in famous television series like the West Wing: Post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this, therefore because of this) See Wikipedia link:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc .

    The advantage of knowing the logical fallacies is that 1. They allow you to see when they are being used on/against you 2. They keep you from lapsing into one by mistake, and 3. more deviously, they allow you to use them against your “opponent” in the hope he doesn’t catch on – until its too late.

    I remember the famous scene in the 1963 movie Cleopatra where Roddy McDowell, playing the Roman consul Octavian, works the senators into a frenzy against Egypt. He picks up a javelin and says, “Where is Egypt? Show me the way!” The senators all point in the direction where they think Egypt to be. But McDowell, knowing the Egyptian ambassador is standing only 10 feet away, slowly pivots around, faces him and says, “NO! THERE is Egypt!” and hurls the javelin straight into his chest and kills him.

    From the lynch mob to a president convincing Congress to give him war powers – its all done using the ancient techniques of oratorical argument – logical fallacies or not.

    Sun Tsu, in The art of War, wrote:
    If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will win one hundred times in one hundred battles.
    If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you will win one and lose the next.
    If you do not know yourself or your enemy, you will always lose.

    I am encouraged to hear that you are trying to teach your college students critical thinking, since we are bombarded by, and have access to, more forms of propaganda today than ever before.


  304. on June 9, 2007 at 8:18 am No Body Is Going to the Moon

    300 No Person Is Going To The Moon


  305. Folks!!! Jews have taken over America. That’s the real awakening you need going after.

    I don’t give a shit about this esoteric discussion. I used to live next door to this land called Apollo (that I see now changed to Isis). I know from a reliable source that Burton is a half Jew. Both Jew & queer. Mother f—er that explains it all. All the people in charge were Jews. Cyclops I can see you are the only guy here who is standing for truth. It is all coming on us by these Jews. Henry Ford was 100% right. I urge you all to read the “The protocols of the elders of zion” there you’d find real truth about the global Jewish plot.


  306. To Bruce
    you misunderstood me if you thought I was justifying Robert’s behavior. He is a criminal. I was refering to judging the whole FOF as criminal because of his actions. I read through the Canon’s of the FOF and it seems obvious, at least to my perception, that he intentionally used the form of a religion because of the special status given to freedom of religion in the U.S. The Canon clearly states that it is an element of faith in the FOF that Robert is a conscious man defined as “The Teacher” with a unique status. He cannot be removed. In this sense it is no different than Christian’s recognizing Christ and the POpe as God’s voice on Earth., Robert simply had the for thought to understand how much better this was in term’s of control and personal freedom for him than a corporation. And he got it in a written contrac. Disagreement or questioning of this is cause for dismissal from the group. It seems like he copied much from the Mormon’s. I also feel rather strongly that the people who agreed to this document and structure would not have done so if Robert had let it be known that he was gay and intended to engage in promiscuous activity.

    Post #14 Joe Average many excellent points. I also agree with those who state Robert is not conscious Robert never became man #5 he mistakenly imagined himself as becoming conscious when he experienced higher centers. This does not indicate man #5 but man #4. It is normal results of efforts to self remember to experience higher centers.

    One angle is in relation to the post that described the “King of Club’s” as being able to recognize truth. I remember walking with Robert one night at the Arizona Biltmore Hotel about 1977 whenever it was he had said he would crystallize and become a man #5 that day but later said it didn’t happen. I always remembered this night when later I heard he was gay and having sex with students.I wondered why he did not push it, that is invite me in, although I believe he shared a room with his drivers. Maybe Tom Easely and Peter Bishop. I now wonder if it was a bit of common sense in either his King of Clubs or mine.

    In post #17 Beyond writes “If one has experienced love and consciousness through having sex with the teacher, and even if the teacher has sex with many other people, then I see nothing wrong with this.We put too much attention on the subject of sex. Because it is taboo in many puritan countries. Many people lack a decent sexual education, and are afraid of anything “abnormal”. I think living in the darkness of illiteracy is creating ones own “sexual predator”.

    This is poorly thought out. Pure wiseacring. Read Bradshaw if you are interested in changing your own illiteracy in regard to sexuality. There is absolutely no way to justify an advanced psychologist such as Robert claims to be creating such an abundance of negativity surrounding sexuality. Sex, the sex center, has the capacity to blend with and affect all the other centers. In our sexuality we experience a reflection of our being. Negative sex needs ever increasing experiences. In the FOF there is not enough of a free flow open discussion of sex. Without this there can be no real conscious school.

    I agree with those who say it is through the students not just the teacher that the FOF can be called in any way conscious. The line of conscious development is not a one way process emanating from the teacher as Robert stresses but just as much more from the efforts of the students
    I also wonder who developed the initial model for the FOF methods. I know some methods were similar to Essalyn. Does any one know?

    It is too bad that the level of being of the former FOF members is not up to having a real working group based on the model of 12 step group’s. No teacher, no owner ship of property, all decisions by group conscience. No membership payments but self supporting.

    Almost all of the early students who achieved a level of individual development were chased out. Robert is a master beauracrat. His dominance feature controls every aspect of his environment. I spent a good bit of time around him. Observe him for a while from the point of view of features, type, alchemy, center of gravity. Is there anything not mechanical. Has any one ever seen him do something mechanically uncomfortable? Rub dirt on his face? wear old sneakers? volunteer to eat at a food kitchen just for the consciousness? While I was on the Farm David Guido had a compost pile, I never saw Robert helping there. Someone said he would spill a glass of water to illustrate mechanicallity did any one ever see him spill wine on a Hermes tie to illustrate non-identification?

    Beyond also writes “Very few are interested in real experiences of Higher States of consciousness and the struggle of achieving them. Most are preoccupied with illusory experiences of resentment and betrayal.”

    This is the classic FOF feature of arrogance and vanity. How do you know what anyone else is experiencing? If I call you an ignorant butt head son of a syphilitic whore How do you know I am not using intentional insincerity to imitate a negative response by outwardly manifesting what to many is simply a normal response to unmitigated crap. Your still justifying a cock sucking gay predator as a “higher being”. Gurdjieff described a feature of “no shame” It is interesting that Robert and through him the FOF do not even recognize this feature.

    Alice in wonderland states
    “I experience conscience as a deep understanding that all human beings are suffering because they are asleep.” That’s fine I don’t experience this. It is too abstract for me. There is an inherent weakness in trying to describe a higher emotional experience. Any emotional state is much richer and diverse than the intellect can conceive. Part of the intelligence of the emotional center are its speed and ability to see more than one aspect of something simultaneously. To me part of conscience is compassion. This is not the same as a mechanical state of pity. I call it compassion when I experience myself reflected in others. This is part of remembering myself in its simplest sense. When I see something in othersexoerience the memory of my own mechanical actions there are some mechanical things in myself that I have experienced for years. This is an important part of what I call conscience. I call it the realization of my own sleep. This in my experience is the single most important factor in being more awake. But on another scale conscience is described as a sense of right action in a specific circumstance. This part is connected to ideas of right action as thaught in Taism and Buddhism.

    I have to reply to all those who one way or another connect Robert, FOF and the system. To me it is the system and the many individual contributions of those sincere students both those who were there for me and all those others that did their best to be the words that are the consciousness of the school. This is the soul of the school. The list of students who have passed brought me many memories of individuals who made real efforts to be there for me. It is an insult to their efforts and memories to negate the reality and value of their work. Theories in the end are just empty words. People are real. Payment is a principal. Robert has distorted this out of all proportion with his insatiable demands formoney. Payment is a principal also means that results are also a principle or law.. No effort is wasted.

    Robert and the FOF are separate from the system. The 4 functions either exist or they don’t. Yes various schools of modern psychology describe the different qualities of intelligence in our common presence. To those who say these are just words. Your intellectual center is seriously undeveloped. If you were a member of the FOF and were unable to verify the existence of the 4 functions than you really were in a mindless cult functioning by imitating others. Do not imagine this is or was the truth for all.

    This new note on the blog represents the start of a new octave. Part of this is the use of a new medium the internet the transmit C influence. What is this C influence. Just being honest. There is nothing higher that we have to share than are honest experiences. An open sharing of experiences of the FOF. Not just as part of our individual process of growth and healing but also in respect to those who were there for us who have passed. Some see the blog as negative , maybe perceiving it as destroying something, I thinkwhat it destroys are mainly imagination about the FOF and Robert Burton. Sometimes as in surgery a part needs to be removed or destroyed in order for healing to occur this occurs on all scales. As above so below. In this case the diseased part is Robert Burton and his distorted sexuality. Perhaps the greater FOF can find a way to function.


  307. on June 9, 2007 at 10:16 am Verify Verity

    Beware the attempts of the dysingenuous as they try to discredit this discourse with their moronic meaningless manifestations. Or, in other words, the off-topic posts of unpleasantries are attempts to discredit this blog and/or to cause people to be frustrated in reading it. Just skip over the useless drivel.

    Verify Verity


  308. I want to tell my experiment with the school:

    Since before I left the fellowship, few years ago, several people asked me how was it to be in it.
    My answer was always the same; “I left the fellowship empowered and more conscious without doubt. But I don’t recommend you to join it. There are faster, safer and more efficient ways to get results than there.”

    What made me stronger after more than 15 years was not the teaching itself, but the process of sorting out through so much distraction, confusion, and entertainment.
    If the fellowship is a conscious school, it is one of denial.
    It is not a school of love.
    Whatever is being taught there, needs to be turned around carefully.

    What helped me, were personal painful experiences that put me in states of intense presence that I verified were of a different quality than the presence Robert and the students in general talked about. I realized that we just talked about it. That is risky because you may became a specialist in talking about presence but not actually be present. The FOF method had too many other components that made thing very confusing to me. I needed more clarity.

    I made it through it but many didn’t. I saw people going through the deepest misery and some of them, never recovered. At that time, who was supposed to be a man number 5 was chronically depressed and addictive to antidepressants. That was before his stroke. I hope his is doing better now. He was doing his best.
    It was very common to meet older students (20+ years in the school) being depressed or angry without motivation for life. No presence, no aliveness. Good talkers in the meetings, anxious and miserable in private.
    My practice in the healing profession allowed me to be able to witness in all those years, many students repeating those patterns that gave me enough evidence to say what I am saying.

    It was very painful for me to stay all those years with my eyes open.
    I knew that something was off, something was fishy.
    I started practicing presence (what an expression!) daily.
    I was obsessed with it. I realized how foreign it was to me. I needed support, but the support the students gave me was not working. Most of them were like parrots repeating from a book. And the teacher seemed to be in his own bubble doing his thing.
    The most powerful guidance happened when I starting bringing myself present to the deep pain that I was feeling for being an outcast in the school. I felt like a cyst or a tumor sometimes in the body of the school.
    But itt became simpler and simpler. Slowly, I learned not to condition the state of presence. That means, no expecting anything out of it. It was not easy as you can imagine.

    I started turning around what Robert was saying. Whatever he would say, I would do the opposite. It was an experiment for quite a long time. And worked.

    The consciousness taught in the FOF is not the one I’ve verified myself.
    There is not circus in it. It is very simple. No angels, no prophecies, no life people vs us, no going to the moon, etc.

    It is not a state that comes and goes. It is always in the background. It varies in intensity but is always available. It is there when I am happy, it is there when I am in pain. It never leaves. It is what I really am (if I am anything at all!)
    For me it’s empowering. In better words it is all power itself.
    It is actually living in touch with the miracle of life always available.
    It’s a state of clarity, were I can live my life from a place of authenticity and integrity. From that place I never say yes when I want to say no. Anywhere I go, the same face, no need for pretense or hiding. Its a place where I can walk my talk. There is a sense of growing connection with myself. There is creativity and a sense of love for life. An honoring. This results in deeper inner peace, freedom and joy in my experience. The aliveness grows and what we call the traits of the young children in an adult’s body becomes more and more a regular part of life.

    For me the process of awakening is an ascending octave, suffering is not an option in it, although pain happens.
    They are very different things, you know.
    It is a process where the ability and the skills to deal with pain grow the more I use them. It is about being present to what is happening in me, regardless of what is. It is not about suppressing emotions, it is not about expressing them neither. It is about transforming them with deep presence. If they are uncomfortable (what in the fellowship I used to called: negative emotions) I feel them as human pain. They are not personal. The state of conscious presence as I experience it, embraces life as it is.
    There are no enemies to fight. Everything is material for transformation.
    It is about less inner talk, less opinions, less analysis, less criticism, less gossip, less us vs you.

    It requires to be connected with my body, with its feelings and sensations. In my experience, to be present is to be as authentic as I can. If I feel sad, I feel sad. If I feel angry, I feel angry. No story. No shoulds or shouldn’ts. It’s what is.
    End of the story.

    Students in the fellowship: It is possible to live like this. It requires to stop believing what my little head is telling me. And what other little heads are telling me too! including Robert’s!

    And you know, I learned all this while I was in the fellowship. Funny ah?
    I learned it with my patients, some of you, FOF students. I could see that what you were doing didn’t work. I saw it too many times. I didn’t say anything though.
    I was doing my experiment still not very certain about it.

    I just learned to turn things around. Whatever Robert said I would do the opposite and see what happened. After several years I found a way that worked for me. I also learned not to believe anything he would said including the predictions. (that was quite a show. A tragic-comedy I would say)

    After several years of deeply feeling the pain of being in the school and seeing what I was seeing happening around me, I left feeling complete. No resentments.
    It was about time.
    What a change of life! I felt like coming out of a cave. Finally, breathing pure air!

    After leaving, I learned that there were other teachings that were already saying what I was doing and I remember wondering, “how come us, the students in the fellowship attract such complicated teaching?”
    I realized that Robert attracts very special people. Like myself full of naiveté and arrogance. Dangerous combination!
    Naiveté and arrogance, the chief feature of the FOF.
    If you have enough of both in your genetics, you are a good candidate for Robert’s school.

    With the intention to contribute,

    Thank you for this opportunity to share.


  309. on June 9, 2007 at 10:48 am Verify Verity

    Dear Comic Relief (11/250),

    Re: your ‘Roman Proverb’

    You evidently have not read all the blog pages or have forgotten post 4/180. I guess this needs reiteration:

    4/180:

    Verify Verity Says:
    March 26th, 2007 at 5:00 am
    Concerning post 4/165 by David Dalton:

    The quotation you perhaps are thinking of, attributed to the Bible (”when Gods wants to punish a person, He takes away his understanding”), is more likely from ancient Greece:

    ‘When gods in anger seek a mortal’s harm, first they deprive him of his sanity, and fashion of his mind a baser instrument, that he may have no knowledge wherein he errs.’
    Lycurgus c.396-c.325 B.C.

    There is a long story about how this passage arrived in documentation for a prosecution, by an overzealous political figure, Lycurgus. It is reported to be the only existing document from Lycurgus, who was said to be, ‘one of the ‘ten’ Attic orators.’ It [the story] is too long and somewhat besides the point here. You can research it on the net. But here is one possible view of it [the quotation] found:

    ‘There’s an old Greek adage that dates back to Lycurgus of Sparta [location likely erroneous]: ‘When falls on man the anger of the gods, first from his mind they banish understanding.’ Or as Longfellow put it, ‘Whom the gods would destroy they first make mad.’ The theory is that, once driven to the point of insanity, the protagonist commits some foolish act[(s)] that brings about his own destruction. Classical tragedy is built on the same principle: The tragic hero, despite his heroic virtues, is brought down by a tragic flaw – usually hubris.’

    This psychological view of our condition applies to anyone who wants to ‘know them selves.’ That is, that critical thinking about one’s own thoughts is a good idea to do regularly and to check-in with your gods, as you may know
    them, regularly, too, as well as your trusted friends. ‘The unexamined life is not worth living.’

    But, the above paragraph, found on the net, speaks volumes about exactly what is going on in FOF [The Fellowship of Friends] and
    particularly w/RB [Robert Earl Burton]; The Tragic Hero that he might Be.

    Most posters to the blog certainly open themselves to critical examination of their thoughts, presuming that what they write is a reflection of their thinking and not just mechanical spewing forth of words. Words can very well be a multifaceted sword. Those that live by the sword must be prepared to die by the sword.

    Verify Verity

    P.S.: To the extent that the predictions were/are metaphor (as some FoFers would now have you believe), Robert Earl Burden being a conscious being is also a metaphor.

    P.P.S.: The contents of this entire blog, all pages included, is perhaps the best possible photograph of the Fellowship of Friends and Robert Earl Burton that can be delivered by humanity as a reflection. It makes one wonder how the photograph is being taken/processed. But, as the law of photograph is, the photograph is delivered from a third force place without the expectation of any specific result and the rest is left to higher forces.

    Verify Verity.


  310. 310. Amen.
    Continued surgery. Just had two profound satoris, robert has short be! and the inner circle or inner ring is a daisy chain.
    Any thing you cant laugh at and let go you are identified with. Thats not to say that we shouldnt care, just that we should care in an unidentified way.

    “These are the four great things, and the ruler is the least of them. Humanity is schooled by the Earth, Earth is taught by Heaven, and Heaven is guided by the Tao. And the Tao goes with what is absolutely natural.”

    Tao-te ching, book 1, chapter 25
    Hegellian dialectic. Thesis, antithesis, brings us to synthesis.
    best wishes. cy


  311. on June 9, 2007 at 3:04 pm You-me-us-they

    To:
    301 student
    “dear sheik,

    if there is any meaning in this blog for informing current members and potential members it’s getting lost right now. Just read the last 100 posts. Without a specific aim or interest, one would not continue reading them. A spiritual interested person would probably be put of right away. I am a current member and still believe in the school and Robert (with some relativity by now due to your blog), but I also think the school should be able to stand this criticism. So please provide this for me and all others you want to save.”

    The general tone of your post is not in harmony with the “please” you offer towards the end.

    How is it possible to say that the last 100 posts could/would not be rich enough to provide you with even more material you could ever work with for the time being, even for a long time if you were serious about the contents?

    “Without specific aim or interest”:
    Right!
    Are you asking others to do
    what you do not do for yourself?
    How could ‘one’ (Sheik, Bloggers) have an aim for you?

    If you read this blog without an aim,
    you are merely reducing it to the distraction level.

    Someone asking for the top 10 posts, I sense, came from a very similar (somnolent?) place…

    “me and all other you want to save.”
    What a stange intention you put on Sheik (and us?)!

    You “beleive in the School and Robert”
    AND experience
    “relativity” due to the blog.
    I would rather read about that…

    This blog is about YOU, this blog is about this kind of perception, personal, sincere, in-dividual moments of your life.!

    Last thought on:
    “So please, provide this for me”:
    In my eyes, this an example of how the FOF tends to turn the Students into “spectators”.

    Robert’s respons (the show) is a reflection of our demand!
    When this is realised,
    it is
    or
    appropriate
    or
    inappropriate.
    Depending on the aim…

    Gratitude.


  312. In Memoriam

    What happened to Roberto Piccoli the Italian student who passed away?

    Thank you.


  313. on June 9, 2007 at 3:51 pm wake up little suzy wake up

    Bernadette Fuquay passed away around 1997? That was her maiden name.


  314. Tornado 312 – thanks for your inspiring post, I am so happy for you. It’s amazing that you got to this simple and beautiful understanding seemingly by yourself while in FOF. Hope that your words will be heard.


  315. Tornado #312

    Thank you for your post! It echoes many of my experiences. We seem to be on a similar path.

    Exlax 101 #296

    “Although some people wish to turn the forum into a mutual admiration society, like the FOF, all smiles and nicety and falseness, some of us wish to just let the machine react and watch the play without trying to change the script into a politically correct response.”

    C’mon, be honest, how does it feel when someone agrees with one of your posts?

    I think that both ‘approaches’ to blogging are useful and valid. I agree with what you are saying, exlax, in the Fellowship of Friends so many of our ‘gut responses’ were photographed, censored, buried, and now demonized. Part of the recovery process is to just let the ‘machine’ manifest or react without inner considering. I understand better where you are coming from now. Part of you might have felt ‘caged’ for too long, and you are letting it all hang out, so to speak. (My first reaction was to laugh out loud at your recent post entitled, HOLY SHIT.)

    Hey, sometimes those quick responses are spot on and sometimes they reveal deeply unresolved issues (take HH #308, for example). It is basically like a ‘free association’ technique which is a valid way to get to know ourselves more deeply. One needs access to those first reactions as part and parcel of being in the world, otherwise there is lopsided development. You don’t want to be stuck sitting around inner considering or contemplating your navel if the house is on fire. Some of what I have read here has definitely sent me into ALL CAPS, too. For myself, my kids provide me with ample opportunities for reacting from the gut.

    So forgive me if I choose to express some admiration, “change the script” or in my mind transmute a ‘coarse’ reaction into a more ‘refined’, crafted response. That’s part of my process dealing with some heavy shit that I had to go through with Mr. Robert Burton. This blog is most certainly not all smiles, nicety, and falseness like the FOF, and I don’t think it will ever be, thanks to you. That’s fine by me. Eventually, you may wish to recalibrate you bullshit detector a bit so as to not miss some real gems. Believe it or not, my beard is my bullshit detector. It itches when I detect someone bullshitting me. Maybe shaving it off isn’t such a good idea, especially during election time.

    Here’s one for you:

    “What happened to Roberto Piccoli, the Italian student who passed away?”

    He died.


  316. Well, I think that I’ll let the trial go a bit longer and then we can have a nice big vote on how you guys would like this place to be run.

    The choices are:

    1) keep things as they are: real-time and no moderation
    2) keep the real-time but deletion of insulting posts
    3) back to the old format with moderation 1-2 a day.

    If you can think of any more choices feel free to share your thoughts.

    If there is anything else you’d like to talk about in terms of the structure of the discussion, feel free. Someone sometime ago asked for a rating system for individual comments (making it easier for newcomers to be able to pick the cream), sadly enough the blog format we are working with does not allow for this (and I have no idea whatsoever how to circumvent that).


  317. in response to post 315 You-me-us-they To: 301 student

    thank you for your response. It’s a strange place to be criticized by some members and some non-members at the same time for sitting on the fence a little lost. One reason I started my spiritual journey was to get beyond the duality of normal life. And back I am: good-bad; criminal-not criminal; concious- not concious…..
    I have respect for all people here, but some posts simply do not seem to fit the purpose of this blog, as it was described by the sheik on page 1. And you please be a little bit more open to the possibility that there are also normal people in the fellowship living normal lifes while trying to be present to it. It is a huge organisation that has many facetts, not only what is primarily described here.


  318. When I asked about Roberto Piccoli, I wanted to know more of the circumstances…maybe a bit of his life before he died, and died from what?

    I learned of another ex-student who passed away from liver cancer, he was gone after 13 days in the hospital, I supposed he had no idea (at least conscioulsy) he had cancer.

    My question is not morbid, I just want to know more of the people who were part of my life when I was in the fof.
    A lot of memories are going through my mind recently.
    It is a good process, when I left the school I did not look behind much except for the occasional conversations with other ex-fof’s when we were finally free to vent about it all.


  319. Hello Shiek,

    I suggest keeping it real time, but block the ip address of the anyone who posts offensive/extremely inane material more than one time.

    Thanks.

    Moon angel


  320. 312 tornado “It requires to be connected with my body, with its feelings and sensations. In my experience, to be present is to be as authentic as I can. If I feel sad, I feel sad. If I feel angry, I feel angry. No story. No shoulds or shouldn’ts. It’s what is.
    End of the story”.

    Tornado, wow. Thank you for your post! I think it is the first time the word “authentic” has been used and it feels enormously important as a mature development of essence and emptiness.

    A former student said:
    “Alice in wonderland states
    “I experience conscience as a deep understanding that all human beings are suffering because they are asleep.” That’s fine I don’t experience this. It is too abstract for me.”

    I don’t think I said this because I don’t think beings are asleep – just don’t think/feel that way. In fact, at certain times it seems like the whole globe is awake and alive and just one being. I enjoyed your thoughtful post and agree that the experience of conscience (as an aspect of consciousness) awakens compassion – which feels like a connectedness. Pretty simple.
    ….
    It seems that people (not just fofers) are attracted to power. The power of consciousness without the brakes of conscience. An attitude, or belief, can be a complete blind spot. Most of the current members’ posts express being impressed with RB’s displays of power. His grand displays of his ‘consciousness’.

    I remember being very disoriented reading “guns, germs and steel” (J. Diamond) because thru his eyes I could see my agrarian self from a very unaccustomed perspective. I left the fof because I just didn’t believe that RB and devotees are any special-er than anyone else. Could never verify that. (in fact, I think RB has serious psychological illness.) Wm. Blake speaks about “divine Imagination” – like imagining, just for the space of a moment, that one’s beliefs are not real.


  321. Re. 226–Re. Dis-ease in the Fellowship of Friends before 2002 and probably to date. It dawned on me today that not only was the non-expression of negative emotion a task but that it also had a hidden side. Due to work on the supposed obstacles to awakening, the non-expression of positive emotions was included. Maybe those are part of the old 4th way connection and are no longer practiced since that connection is supposed to be severed. Never-the-less it might be helpful for the exes who are still trying to sort it all out. Blocking the flow of energy by using resistance, fighting against or pushing against thoughts and emotions, is what causes illness, physical, mental, or spiritual. Positive emotions have the power to blow away those blocks. Joy is a positive emotion. Laughter often implies joy. Creative imagination designed to bring about a higher state, higher than negative at least, is a great tool.

    Therefore, resistance to thoughts about RB’s supposed errors, resistance to thoughts about our own errors, are nothing more than more errors since the resistance blocks our flow of well being or positive energy. So much the worse if we are right. Resistance from exers to innrs or vice-versa is equally damaging. Transformation of the negative thoughts, emotions, and especially beliefs is still the all-important key.

    I was reviewing an old Abraham workshop cassette this morning which I am certain would be appreciated by my ex-fofer friends and all others interested in this blog. Five years ago or six months ago for that matter, I would not have gained anywhere near as much from this tape and that is because of this blog. Thanks again to all. I am aware of the evil of furthering the construction of a mutual admiration society so don’t make too much of this thank you, please. For the entertainment seekers, why you might even recognize one or two voices, God forbid! Ok. ok!
    The cassette or CD is available from abraham-hicks dot com and the number is G/10/08/95

    While I’m at it, the ‘Sudbury Valley School’ book might also be available from them They are at the workshops and are free of charge there. It describes the 35 year experimental school which I am greatly impressed by and wish was a possibility for our daughter. I am sure the LCS people would gain from the reading of it if they have not already done so.

    Food for thought—a quote from an unknown source:

    If a master gives you something that the human mind will ordinarily question and you don’t question it, only then can you be given that which cannot be questioned.

    Have a great weekend, Renald (Ron)


  322. No one with a real conscience loses sight of the fact that they are not complete, that they do not posses self-consciousness, that what they call “me” is a mass of contradicting personalities that come and go in reaction to events and inner moods. No one with a real conscience believes that he already has will and understands himself. No one with a conscience feels positive about the fact that he doesn’t actually remember himself. Conscience means not lying to yourself at the deepest level. Something is wrong with a man as he exists in typical life, he is asleep. A man asleep can have no conscience, he only has the buffers he uses to justify his tenuous sense of self-assurance. Any man that comes to the conclusion that he does not need to work on himself has lost any hope of coming under the influence of conscience.


  323. I would agree with everything you said, with the addendum that the conscience is there for most, if not all of us, and the differentiating factor is how much muck each person has that’s submerging it. One’s work, whatever form it takes, is to clear some of the muck away. I don’t think it is “real” or “not real”. In many cases here, I would think most people with a “real question”, having to do with one’s actions or directions, already knows what the answer is from conscience. The difference is the capacity to actually act on what we know is right. If you mean “real conscience” as “permanent conscience” you must either be talking from a place of apparent “permanent conscience” or just espousing a theory. I think one’s access to conscience is on a wider spectrum than black and white, and our place is constantly moving.


  324. Please Mark Post 328 as the first intelligent post from Bruce.

    Congratulations Bruce you did it…

    “One’s work, whatever form it takes, is to clear some of the muck away”–Very True!


  325. Bruce 328
    “I would agree with everything you said…”

    When there is a thought like the one above (327) it is best to just put it out there in one go (but check spelling), when you go back and try to think of all the things you left out and all the things that others are going to argue with then the effort shifts from essence into personality and something gets lost in the translation.


  326. 330 I understand.

    329 GFU.


  327. Scuse me, didn’t spell check.

    329 GFY


  328. and the last…


  329. on June 9, 2007 at 8:28 pm Across the River

    IN MEMORIAM

    Roberta Hendricks

    I didn’t know her personally but understand she had just finished her nursing degree and was travelling from the Bay Area to ‘Renaissance’ when killed in an automobile accident in Knight’s Landing, 1988.


  330. I was recently asked by a long time Oregon House resident, a man that the Fellowship would describe as a “good householder”, if I was a member of the Fellowship. I was very happy and relieved to be able to say, “No, I was, but I recently left because there are things in the Fellowship that I no longer want to support or be associated with.”

    I didn’t need to say anymore. He said, “You mean things that would make you sick at your stomach.” He then went on to say that he thought there were some decent people in the Fellowship but that there was a large bunch that should be taken out and horse whipped.

    Members of the Fellowship are mistaken if they think that they are invisible in this community. Thanks to this blog local people know what is going on and the ugly secrets are no longer secrets. Members stand out like “sore thumbs” at the post office, the grocery and video stores because of their oblivious and arrogant attitudes. Continued affiliation suggests to everyone that members are people without conscience or decency. With the information about the Fellowship now public and available, members, no matter how well-dressed, polite and refined, are increasingly regarded as sick people who are supporting a sick leader and his sick organization.

    What healthy citizens would want such corruption and depravity in their midst? Many people are just waiting for the whole pack of lies to self destruct.


  331. Vena, what exactly do you not wish to be associated with? for how long have you supported these “things”, or have they just recently come to light for you on this blog for example, and if so, what do you really know, since there has been very little coming out by way of real verifiable facts, except gossip, 20+ year old stories, by folks with an obvious agenda, etc.? so, are you really sure of the sickness?


  332. Hi (cyclops, Exlax101, black ops)

    Really, you should find the cajones to start signing your posts with your name, so we’ll know which perverse, cowardly little s**t you are.


  333. #320 The Whale

    Thanks for your post. I think we have come to understand each other thanks to the Sheik of IC for allowing us to speak our mind.
    Of course there are those still chrystalized in thinking the King of Hearts is the ONLY way to communicate and wish to ban those of us who still can still express and think for ourselves. Such is the unfortunate residue of being in the FOF.

    #335 Vena.

    Great insight! When I left FOF I still felt funny going to the grocery store or the post office because I would run into students who thought I was just dirt under their feet. Funny how the tide turns.

    #326 Renald

    Greetings and salutations! Yes!! I remember when I joined the FOF after my 3rd perspective meeting, I was placed on a chair in the middle of the room and told I could ask any question I wished. I said, “How can Juan change negative emotions into positive emotions?”
    The entire room burst into fits of laughter. ‘Nuff said.

    #324 MoonAngle

    A Master once said, “Ordinary, mechanical man eats food, turns to shit. Wise man eats shit, turns to food.”


  334. #337 Bruce

    Get over it and move on.


  335. I thought so.


  336. #340 Bruce

    ” I thought so.”

    Actually, no, Bruce I do not think you thought at all.
    The great thing the Sheik has done, this posting in real time, tells us, well, most of us, the level of identification of the poster.
    Its like counting to ten.
    love,
    Exlax 101


  337. on June 9, 2007 at 9:49 pm Ames Gilbert

    To Tornado (#11-313)
    Thank you very much for telling us about your experience, your experiment. I deeply appreciate personal story. My path had similarities, but it sounds like I was less disciplined and more haphazard with my experiments. You mentioned feeling like an outcast; I often felt the same, “a stranger in a strange land”, rather ironic considering that also was the feeling that led me towards the FoF. One of the hardest things for me was the complete lack of trust I came to feel with other students. There were the overt happenings, where another would report my activities or conversations to those in “higher authority”. A typical example: I wanted to learn about rammed–earth buildings. I took some classes from an expert quite far away, and also went to a neighboring community which had a construction company with experience in rammed-earth. Another student figured that I was getting too close to the very helpful people in that community (the Ananda organization in North San Juan, also run by a charismatic leader), so without speaking first to me, told Burton about it, ostensibly because “he feared that I would lose the school”. Burton ordered me to cut all contacts. Needless to say, I never spoke to that student again about anything esoteric or much else; he had lost my trust completely. The covert loss of trust occurred whenever I would try second line work and rather than personal exchanges, I would receive impersonal “official angles” delivered by rote, which as I have mentioned before, only serve to induce sleep. Those angles, however lofty sounding, were given unconsciously and mechanically to help align members with the aims of the organization (read, Burton). Over the years, this led to lack of trust of most other members, and thence rather isolated and desperate for real second line work.

    To Laughing Love (#11-272)
    Thank you for pointing out the importance of critical thinking. For those of us who cannot take a formal course in logic and critical thinking, could you recommend some books, preferably with laced with meaningful examples, so we could educate ourselves a bit? Or maybe there is an online course you know about? I can get lists of families of arguments and fallacies from the web, but my way of learning requires something more; the ideal for me (moving centered) is guidance by an experienced teacher, with examples and exercises to provide the best learning experience. Could you give pointers?

    With love and appreciation to all, ‘in’ or ‘out’,
    Ames


  338. In Reply to Posts #298/11, #316/11, #321/11 ~

    #321/11 ~ To Sheik,

    Considering the circumstances Sheik, I would vote to keep it real… The real-time aspect is the ‘end-all’ of this whole blog process, no mediation of spontaneous personal data-ship, that is,

    certainly ‘crime’ is a unit of subtraction that need not be excepted here as an ‘objective right’, we’ve seen what someone who has a subjective opinion that they have an objective right to compromise others vulnerabilities for personal aggrandizement of the drama-self can lead to.

    If you look at the blog as a little model of the Fellowship of Friends ‘form’, you can easily see that the Sheik ‘was’ simply playing the role of the Fellowship Council or Director, though certainly I mean this ‘symbolically’;

    having a mediator is ‘normal’, yet, there’s deeper stuff to get through, not over or around, more than oftentimes, in the Fellowship of Friends, the non-expression of negative emotions was simply ‘let’s get on the band wagon of suppression and non-understanding of exactly how to get through the illusion of this painful self image, we think we’re transforming by labeling, side stepping the experiential and calling it names’…

    Sticks and Stones, my lovers, do nothing to transform the pain body (suffering).

    As I see it, the non-mediating is exactly where we all end up at the end of the day, where many were before sitting down to the Prospective Meetings, where they are after leaving the Fellowship of Friends.

    Yet, people do grow, regardless of the form their journey takes; I do not believe its useful to ask any questions concerning the value, effectiveness or consciousness of Robert Burton and his Fellowship of Friends, unless you’re still in there, making new cave paintings…

    All the ‘hindsight questions’ are really for you ~ This leads into the

    Post #298/11, written by ‘glad2Bgone’

    All the questions you asked, in my opinion, are for you and you only, especially since you’re not at Isis anymore. Any wonderment concerning the ‘form’ behind the gatehouse guard is a distraction, unless of course someone comes to you wishing your opinion.

    Some have asked of my opinion, I write them down here in the blog, though do not ‘live with them’ like a landlord to renters in my basement… (not necessarily saying that you do though).

    For now, all this stuff concerning the Fellowship of Friends is relevant to me for only one purpose, to stay beyond, to assist others in staying beyond it, to sail about, to draw out ‘my little map’ to my origin & departures, which is certainly not connected to the proofs of my belly button, to share in what I have learned a spiritual school is, by having experienced what it is not.

    A few, not knowing who I am on the blog, have approached me, wishing to know a few tid-bits of why people are leaving, I often choose to keep the explanation ‘very short’, really, not kidding, I do haiku. One of the best words I have found is ‘Graduation’ and

    the idea that no conscious being in The Tradition of Teaching (of what I sense is the duty of any spiritual teacher of any true spirit-depth, verifiable in open, un-mediated conversation) would ever use ‘the possibility to hurt another’s essential most vulnerable ‘area’ for the sake of firstly their own self-calming needs and lastly to bring the will of the gods as an explanation for such ‘adolescent game-stews’, into the triad to add some sort of religious responsibility, god-dominance to the mix.

    Sex is sex, making love is making love; as soon as we add anything to it, particularly ‘god-dominance’ in the form of one’s archetypal role, that one (‘the teacher’) knows is situated in the Aspirant’s psyche, all is lost, especially the emotionality and intuitive exploration that can occur in the triad of sex.

    Robert Burton once told a student that “I am interested in getting to know you.” And, like all infra-sex ~ self-interested, painful dominating sex was promoted as first, a Guru-prerequisite to the personal family album sharing to follow last.

    Yes, there is emotionality between Robert Burton and ‘The Boys’, yet this is not, in my sense of it, what Socrates spoke about concerning real friendship, which he never got around to explaining exactly, Rumi answers this equation in his prose…

    The emotionality, as I sense it, is not consciously dynamic, spontaneous and free to loose a few feathers in riding the friendships first Tornado, it is submissive, sensational and at best, religious ecstasy, which is a form of self induced hypnosis stemming from an unconsciously willy-nilly-regulated higher emotional center, the end all of End Alls for the King of Hearts ‘heart attack’, similar to meeting Elvis, before he put on weight.

    So much of the reasoning behind being around Robert Burton, for the boys and the girls, that’s right folks, the girls, unbeknown to some extremists, is the after-talk, what they take home, their extra-sensationalized roles,
    the protracted image-affirmation building by Robert Burton of one’s already filled with illusions (Ouspensky’s ~ “A man #4 is someone who knows too much.”) self-image, more and more layers of form, though no ‘holy reconciliation’.

    For the subliminal bragging that goes on due to certain students being chosen by ‘the teacher’ to do this or that or play some ‘role’ for an undisclosed amount of time, is immense, not only does this create a silent-rift between the chosen and the not, it sets in motion a very spiritually dangerous thing called ‘habit’.

    One could write a book on just the subject of ‘The Form of Spiritual ‘I wanna go to Heaven, I am going to Hell anyways – Habits’.

    Every aspect of The Fellowship of Friends truly worth looking at are not the obvious ones, particularly the self calming sex, manipulation due to power, position, personage, etc.

    To me, the most vital picture is the time, the quality of one’s time spent in such contexts as one sees it from the standpoint of conscious conscience in the one and only moment, in other words, what you do with it all, not what all of it is doing with you… implies something does it not,

    (A guy came up to me once, really angry, I mean spit-angry, so I stood my distance. He was red from the neck up, blood vessels and such… He said, “God dammit, Mary, mother of Christ, I hate police, $#%@^*() traffic ticket giving son of a #@!@#$,
    a sudden focused calm came over him, similar to holding one’s breath while aiming a gun, he said, “Don’t you hate policemen”. I said “no”. One day later he fired me for being complacent to his needs. Sound familar?)

    yet, this is only relative to one’s level of being, for certainly Whalerider’s ‘right work of sex center’ did not settle into his psyche for free, he grew up, learned how to use it by its using of him and that which contradicted his deeper connection to individual, personal will,

    as we all will grow thus, by being drug by our hair through a brier patch, a home to a colony of cute bunnies… The agony of the way is due to many factors, most all belonging to the fact that we have forces within us that are not necessarily ‘oneself’, ‘things are not as they seem’… it’s easy to say that, yet, how is that said?

    We are all pregnant with children and adults, belonging not to our family tree, we are baby sitters for many, like it or not; yet, we confuse their signals and moods for our own, this is where the ‘struggle’ starts, at least the ‘I believe in drama’ portion of the triad, which takes up nearly 95% of one’s sex energy in attempting to defend that which was not built for ‘war’, rather, ‘annihilation’.

    The soul annihilates, it does not argue, debate, yes,
    that’s expansive and gives your lover something to love other than sentimentality or a desire that things will change only by enduring stubbornness.

    See, Robert Burton knows nothing about the Pain body, no, its not the King of Clubs or the machine: I mentioned before, it’s the machine within the machine. Some people in this blog became a bit irate, mistook this for some sort of Pink Floydism or perhaps better Dali-ish, yet, I am talking about two machines, a Major and a Minor, one as real as the other in its proper ‘atmosphere’ and ‘dimension’
    .

    The Minor is the Human body, all four or five lower centers.
    The Major is that force that possesses all this in order to carry out negative and destructive abuse of said ‘Minor’…
    It’s a bit too long to explain here, let’s just take a simple look at some of Tolle’s insights concerning the pain body via Youtube…

    All teacher’s, ‘enlightened ones’ have met with this phenomenon (and no, its not reserved for ‘teachers’ students of themselves had also met it) it does not go away upon Revelation,

    the difference between a real teacher who knows ‘the devil’ personally and one who does not, whose only reading about him in tabloids waiting in the grocery store checkout line,

    is that in a real teacher’s or real human being’s daily life, there’s only one ‘thing’ playing his or her ‘role’ or experiencing certain unforeseen sets of circumstances, filled with coincidences, knowns and unknowns, his or her conscious self, not two ‘players’, that is, unless you don’t know the devil personally, until one gets to know the devil personally, contradictions will remain a ‘hobby’ not a ‘heaven’.

    An impersonal relationship to raw, formless denying force, before it possesses the human being to enact its ‘dance’ will result in a ‘cult’ or at best another fairy tale church; which are not so bad as a conscious task to attend, particularly if you still have a superiority complex before & after leaving the Fellowship of Friends or in general.

    So, back to the sex, lies and video tapes ~

    video tapes:

    Death does not redeem the spirit of anything, particularly of its attitudes, beliefs, longings and identifications: the body is a plaything for the spirit, sometimes it plays serious, other times it goes tickling silver backed gorillas with little plastic hand-back-scratchers attached upon two by fours or hitting full grown lions on the noses with microphones.

    If you’ve never been present to a dead body, I would advise it, not that I am an advocate for Baudelaire or Edgar Allen Poe, just do it, you’ll see. There’s no one there, it’s the ultimate mask par excellence, yet there is a wisdom and humility to be found there, if you can get past the buffership of the pain body’s romancing of the living flesh.

    lies:

    Evey lie in the Fellowship of friends is a repetition of the first, a ‘habit’. So, so what? Whalerider’s beard itches, I sense it in the intonation and pauses in the speaker’s story, their level of self-believability:

    it is truly a blessing that we all eventually get to learn how to see real-love-intent, no matter the degree, learning this, being, as it flows through oneself like a potion is an immense… there are no words to describe it.

    nearly 99% of all Fellowship of Friends ‘students’ who say that Robert Burton is conscious (with a sort of Greenpeace/Amnesty International advocacy in their tone) are pronouncing such from the subconscious need-attachment to thought form as self-necessities,
    belief systems are not belief-selves,

    for what purpose could another’s level of being ever serve oneself than to accompany one’s own and by doing this, how is it that we allow that ‘certain something’ to complain about the Path for the sake of ‘to prove’, ‘to contradict’, or ‘to hide from the magnetic impulses within us that love pain, drama, contradiction’ not for transformation, rather, for show, showing what, what do we show when we gossip about ourselves, whose gossiping, who says “I don’t remember myself enough”, the part that does?

    It’s odd, yes, affirmations will never go outside the box: the subject of Robert Burton will always be either a positive affirmation or a negative affirmation, subjects are never transformed into anything higher, unless of course a library holding all the original documents concerning the history of spiritual schools on earth were to burn down. Yet, that wouldn’t stop people from erecting a temple there, on the ashes, worshiping the sense of loss as a gain, a blessing.

    sex:

    So what, we are all here for not having had it before our parents, and?

    To ‘glad2Bgone’ Post #298/11 ~

    Thank you for assisting in the spawning of another blog article; I wish to say something personal to you

    That things are changing, the days of the ‘cults’ are ending so far as not having a higher reconciling factor, other than organized religion, the ‘original cult’, to hold a mirror up to them to show just where it is that they stand in the proximity to the field of conscious love,

    people are waking up to ‘scandals’, the ‘do’ was begun by 911 on the physical level symbolic, then Enron on the psychological level symbolic, George Bush on the emotional level,

    This is not to say that these things have not happened before, I’m sure Rome was filled with this stuff, perhaps America is simply a re-occurrence of Rome, if so, well, so be it, you cannot stop George Bush, Joseph Campbell could have told us that, GB is a phenomenon, a sort of psychological ‘birth’ out of the weirdy-stew of life on the planet Earth, he’s exactly what the doctor ordered, that is, as long as you understand that your not sick, if not, then complain, for it is what happens without you.

    The change is also moving into the Spiritual community, places like You Tube, My Space, Blogs, Ebay, Amazon.com, Google and the like, all point to a yearning, a thirst for the freedom to share, to be spontaneous, sincerity, whatever it is you are in the moment, albeit oftentimes criminal, hurtful and psychotically anonymous… The ‘wheel of life’ is not changing, though the vehicle is. The desire for spiritual freedom is still abstract, now it takes the form of ‘sex’, unlimited access to self-personalized/profiled pornography or endless candidates for ‘no-looking into the eyes, one night stands’, the final center of expression of affirmations
    till something ‘snaps’.

    The days of the spiritual maverick are slowly dwindling, there’s too many mouths to feed to have just one giant boot to hold them all, one of Robert Burton’s greatest dilemmas is ‘spiritual delegation’, he simply cannot do it, yet.

    If the spiritual teacher cannot equally, intentionally, bring the same quality of attention to the subject of ‘individual personage’ amongst/between his followers as they automatically do unto him or herself, due to their need of affirmation and momentary distraction, then the cult-seed will sprout,

    the teacher will fail utterly by the triads own design, not giving the students over to their conscious selves through vigorous self exploration, rather, giving them over to his conscious affirmation, Robert Burton has unknowingly created the very ‘thing’ our magnetic centers were not looking for, so having been created to look for truth,

    so perhaps its a ‘school for the creation of magnetic centers’, for certainly the teacher does not reconcile the aspiration of magnetic center, to go beyond affirmation and faith, into real time existence within one’s conscious probabilities in this one and only moment. Real being, as one is, now, no promises, no faith, no worship.

    Have you ever seen Robert Burton sitting or standing for a Town Hall meeting, a Fellowship tea, where someone else is doing the ‘coffee talk’? In the Galleria crowd?

    No, but hey, interesting idea, yes? Though this, as any exercise in humility and quiet expansion, can be used as a clever ploy to ‘seem so, I’m just like you’, it must be a standard, not a sudden ‘obvious juxtaposition’.

    Glad2Bgone,

    Your idea of spiritual teachers is a bit one sided, perhaps colored by the ex-student-glasses you’re still wearing, believing that whatever it is that’s in you, which ‘feels’ deceived, merits immortality.

    Please do not rule out the existence of a sincere lover of lovers; this would be a deep impasse for your development, find a good friend, trust that, that’s it, in this one and only moment,

    expectation & doubt freezes time, deadens it’s real view… trust in your newfound level of being coupled with love of the distrusting, this will guide you, not necessarily to another teacher or school, rather, to that part in you that stands in no fear, of anything which desires to externally mirror you or break yours,

    for your real face is featureless.

    A note:

    I sense the Fellowship of Friends began to descend when the teacher became more visible, began attempting to teach what he himself could not demonstrate off stage, less invisible:

    yet, fortunately Robert Burton’s ‘invisibility’ was not due to a certain kind of spiritual practice of limiting a certain some thing’s influence upon others, till it could be transformed, maintained by a new level of being,

    it was the opposite, a hiding of a lifestyle, an order of standards and principles, that is not so far away from using the analogy of a perfectly healthy person suddenly finding that he or she has terminal cancer.

    Whatever was there, has always been there, I say ‘fortunately’ because this blog and other events becoming known at the right place at the right being-time by others, is an obvious impediment-impression for the rightly developing being in a person willing to look,

    and thank ‘something’ for that part of us, the slowly un-atrophying BS detector towards what we once thought affirmationally valuable to our developing conscious psyches, is now BS, that is, Below Standards of graduating from affirmations into conscious becoming, real action, real sex, real love.

    ___________________________

    Love to you all.


  339. on June 9, 2007 at 10:55 pm Was KathleenW

    Shiek, I would vote for an unmoderated, real-time blog.

    The best censorship of offensive posts is to ignore them. If no one takes the bait (gives attention), where is the thrill?

    If there is concern about scaring off new readers, a disclaimer about non-moderation could be added to the beginning of each new page.


  340. 338.Exlax.101
    Another formulation of your saying.
    “the water a cow drinks turns to milk,
    the water a snake drinks turns to poison”.
    Chinese saying.
    regards to Every one. cyclops.


  341. on June 9, 2007 at 11:27 pm Comic Relief

    Hello, Verify (314):

    Please see the Wikipedia entry:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whom_the_gods_would_destroy

    And here it is in Latin: Quem deus vult perdere, dementat prius.

    On the first line of the entry, you will see it is called a ROMAN PROVERB.

    I didn’t claim the idea was original with the Romans, or that they had a copyright on it, or that nobody else had a similar idea. The ancient world was a very busy place. I simply quoted a Roman proverb, WHICH IT IS.

    It is amazing how the statement of a simple fact can arouse such a lengthy response.

    But thank you for the history lesson, and I’m glad I gave you the opportunity to repost your previous entry.


  342. Dear Sheik,

    Leaving the blog un-moderated leaves the door wide open for the increasingly desperate FOF to manipulate and saturate.

    My vote is for real time AND deletion of obvious phonies or hate mongers. Please don’t hand over any opportunity for disruption in the flow of information.

    Thanks,
    Ryan.


  343. Sheik, I also vote for an unmoderated, real-time blog. Since we are so old…maybe that means that we are also adults.


  344. Mr. Shiek, you’ve worked hard enough. Keep things as they are: real time and no moderation. If it dies it dies. I think those who needed to be here got their messages.


  345. For those of you looking for improved readability of the blog,inidcators which ones you read etc …click on comments RSS below , choose Google reader http://www.google.com/reader. Thanks Sheik, i like the idea of ignoring offensive bloggers , s Kathleen mentioned #344 and leave it unmoderated .


  346. on June 10, 2007 at 1:05 am Veronicapoe

    IN MEMORIAM
    Yorgo Savides

    Left 1972 and invited others to leave. Memorialized in FOF as “the play of crime.”


  347. wrong, Veronicapoe, nobody is memorializing this play…all those now handful that remember this time are too busy with more important things than you are with your subjective history writing, but by all means keep up the good work feeding your imagination–it will get you far!


  348. on June 10, 2007 at 2:06 am Living the Questions

    To Tornado (#11-313)
    I resonated with your post and thanks so much for sharing your experience with all of us. The description of your unfolding into deeper presence, where all things, including pain and negative emotions, are allowed without judgment, experienced fully, and then released without fanfare, is what I now understand to be transformation.
    During my last year in the Fellowship and ever since leaving, I have been exploring the emotions that I have buried deep in my unconscious realms. What a revelation and relief this process has been for me. Once you allow it all, the fears and identification with the emotions begin to slowly and steadily dissipate.
    In 1999 I wrote this as an attempt to express this process:

    I am diving deeper into my own nothingness
    And the dark shadows hold
    glowing points of light,
    barely discernable unless
    I remain in the dark places long enough to see their faint radiance.

    Each secret point of light enfolds
    a gem of truth and
    the mystery is revealed only
    when shrouded in the dark womb.
    How foolish it is to flee my death,
    groping for familiar, comforting patterns.

    Even seeking the light
    has become a burden and
    all that is left to me is learning
    to live beyond hope and despair…
    simply to live in the
    reality of the ever-present moment.

    Wishing You All the Best.


  349. #313 Tornado

    Ahhhh! Very good, very good.


  350. on June 10, 2007 at 2:46 am We Were There

    11/352 LOL

    Speaking of history, in the early 90’s RVW put together a softball team to play the ‘locals’ (for PR!).

    One night in Marysville we were arguing among ourselves so intensely that one of our opponents finally had to say ‘Hey guys, try to take it easy… it’s only a game!’

    Fast-forward 15 years – and one thing not lost on the readers of this blog is that current members of the Fellowship of Friends seem to be the source of the majority of mean-spirited, sarcastic and intimidating posts.

    Matthew warned “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves… A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit… So then, you will know them by their fruits. (7, 15-20)

    Wake up LOL, it’s not too late.

    Or is it?


  351. on June 10, 2007 at 3:12 am Laughing Love

    To Ames Gilbert (342)

    I’m honored that you were interested in the critical thinking information.

    I don’t have specific texts.

    I do, however, amongst my other seven million jobs, do teach courses online. Kaplan is a reputable online university.

    Still, I think there are more interesting ways of observing critical thinking skills.

    Any serious artist uses these skills to a deep degree. As you know, anyone who creates a fabulous piece of art (drama, painting, singing, sculpting, film, writing, music, etc.), uses critical thinking skills to get to the heart of any matter.

    When the artist is really good, the effect on the audience is instantaneous and, possibly, ecstatic.

    For instance, Samuel Beckett’s plays instantly bring one to a point of presence.

    All of his plays were filmed recently with excellent actors (i.e., Julianne Moore), playing the parts.

    http://www.beckettonfilm.com/

    “Waiting for Godot” is, in part, an examination of the human ability to think critically relative to spiritual pursuits.

    My general sense is that examining critical thinking skills by exploring very highly developed artists might be a good idea.

    We all use these skills daily. We all know, perfectly well, that crossing the street without looking both ways is not wise.

    Strangely, when it comes to more serious issues, those skills sail happily out the window.

    LL


  352. on June 10, 2007 at 3:36 am Demi Moaned

    So many posts to respond to– so little space.

    Dear Sheikh (321), thanks for your efforts in putting this together. If the choices you list are really the only practicable ones, then I would vote for real time posting with after the fact deletion of obvious trolls.
    But my real preference would be something more along the lines of DailyKos where users register in order to participate. And people can post diaries or comment on diaries or comment on comments. There are many different ‘threads’ going on in this blog and it’s hard to keep them sorted out and to put responses in context. And I think this would also address the problem raised by student (301).

    Tornado (313) sums up my experience very succinctly:

    I left the fellowship empowered and more conscious without doubt. But I don’t recommend you to join it.

    For myself, I would say I definitely ‘turned a profit’ on my experience, often in ways quite different from what I imagined I was doing.
    Further

    I realized that Robert attracts very special people. Like myself full of naiveté and arrogance.

    We actually had a word for that back in my days (77-86): allurement, wanting to think ourselves special in relation to things we had no possible conception or understanding of.
    Glad2Bgone (298) says something similar

    My path out of the School has lead me way beyond a susceptibility to any spiritual products & packaging. I now perceive the notions of “awakening”, “spiritual path”, “school”, following a “teacher” to “enlightenment” as a grand mythology that attracts specific types of people with predictable, identifiable dependencies & personality characteristics (well researched & documented).

    What I really have no patience for any more is the neat little categorizations (by threes, sevens, and nines) that seemed to me so clever when I was in. It’s truly something that becomes it’s own opposite— i.e., at first it’s a tool to improve observation but it soon becomes a hindrance to observation.

    Also, what I’m most ashamed of in retrospect is my gullibility in regards to the predicitons. The Depression one was barely plausible, though it was the first to go belly up. The idea of California falling into the ocean was wholly preposterous. Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of geology would know that nothing remotely like the scenario predicted could ever happen. And don’t get me started on nuclear holocaust.

    No person (301) writes:

    I am not big on intentional suffering.

    Actually the transformation of suffering is the one Fourth Way idea that has become truly meaningful for me since leaving the school.


  353. Hi Sheik, I would vote as well for an unmoderated, real-time blog. But deleting some really insulting stuff seems OK too. But let’s not go back to “your comment is awaiting modration” please. You know, with “real time” it feels as if you’re actually having a real alive connection or actually talk with others. I think it’s great. It looks like new format inspires more people to participate too.
    Thank you very much for taking time to do this. This blog brought so many changes in so many people’s lives – it’s really amazing. It connected people, it shook the FOF – big time, it opened eyes and made people think and re-examine certain ideas and beliefs. It’s simply great.
    I hope Sheik you are enjoying running this show!

    P.S. It’s so wild to think that I have never met Sheik or so many others here face to face… Yet we connect here again and again here in cyberspace…


  354. Demi, how do you make those nice gray quote marks? They are so cool. Your post looks so artful. Please share your formatting secret if you don’t mind!
    And suffering – we are just mincing words… Real suffering (like losing your beloved or child or having your leg cut off) is incredibly rare (thank God), and other usual “suffering” is not really suffering, just thoughts. So what is there to transform and who is going to do the transforming? :)


  355. on June 10, 2007 at 4:20 am Demi Moaned

    Joys of HTML

    Dear no person (358), it’s all done with HTML tags. Check the html reference (this is a link) for more info.

    The quotes are done using a blockquote tag. It’s hard for me to demonstrate how it works, because the tags are interpreted. Basically you have a start and end tag. Tags are framed with . The end tag is the same as the start except with a / before the tag.

    But I use the DailyKos (this is a link) comment editor which has buttons to plug in the tag.

    HTH.


  356. on June 10, 2007 at 4:25 am Demi Moaned

    Suffering

    Dear no person (358), ‘real’ suffering is rare. Anyone who is ‘transforming suffering’ on a daily basis is very likely indulging in imaginary suffering.

    But real suffering does occur. Grief is one example. But lesser sufferings also occur. In any case, the non-expression of negative emotions is the preparation for the transformation of suffering.


  357. on June 10, 2007 at 5:46 am The Third State

    I was just looking over the reunion pictures and noticed a picture of Sharon S. and remembered the third state of consciousness. I was new student in Los Angeles and the teaching house was up on Cold Water Canyon I think, Sharon was the center director and projected a very convincing image of a woman in charge, friendly and yet unapproachable. A bit daunting. I was standing in the kitchen after a meeting wishing my ride would come along and get me out of there, but he was a queen of hearts venusian and leaving anytime soon was unlikely so I was in the kitchen trying to be as invisible as possible – which in the Fellowship was about impossible. The more you did not want to be noticed the more you were. There were a few other people in the kitchen when Sharon came sweeping in, walked up to me and in a very “intentional” and serious (it seemed to me) act kissed me directly on the mouth and then stood looking directly into my eyes. This was a married woman and her husband was the other center director, I mean there was going to be some real trouble. I was stunned, but it did create the third state. A permanent memory. So thanks for that.


  358. I also thought that “I have arrived”; “this is the place”; some time after joining the FOF, to realize almost 8 years later that I was off in my perception and that the school was just a small and necessary stepping stone in my soul journey.

    It took my ego some time to swallow all the evidence and the humbling experience of accepting that I have not arrived anywhere yet, and that there was still some more work that needed to be done. The most important one.

    Later on I realized that this may be one of the reasons why for some of us, takes so much to decide to leave the school. I realized that my self image has been fed with ideas like
    : “I made it”, “I’m done”, ” I am a chosen one”, “this is the ultimate place for me”, “I am going to die in the school”; etc. etc.

    It was a very painful process for me to dismantle all that structure. It was glued together with one of the most powerful energies that us human beings are able to create in our regular state of consciousness. And that is the emotional energy of what we call; friendship.

    One morning was very liberating to realize that the most important friendship I needed to honor was the one I had with myself. There I was watching through those eyes, breathing through this nose, being alive in a body and dismissing myself completely. Distracted by fairytales, or biting upon myself for not being enough or incomplete or deficient.

    Shocking was the realization that all the relationships in my life known or to come, would pass sooner or later, including those that I loved so much, but the one with myself was for ever.

    I noticed that I could feel betrayed by someone I trusted or I may betray them: but the pain of self betrayal went much deeper and it was far more painful than any other type of pain.

    That day I became aware of a very simple thing that supported me up to this day.

    I like it or not, I am my eternal roommate!

    How do I want to live in this relationship?
    What my life would be like if I treat myself in the way I treat someone I love very-very much?

    These questions still help me today.

    Breath with me please…


  359. Conscience #327

    Thank you for your post. It’s good to get that stuff off your chest, you know. That’s a real heavy trip you’re laying on yourself there (and others I would imagine). I would say that what you state is worded in such a way so as to make you feel insecure about yourself at the core, wouldn’t you? It’s not emotional good householder to carry around all that deep insecurity and self doubt. One does not need to feel complete to have a real conscience! And having an aim can help unify your personalities. BTW what is your aim?

    “No one with a real conscience loses sight of the fact that they are not complete, that they do not posses self-consciousness, that what they call “me” is a mass of contradicting personalities that come and go in reaction to events and inner moods.”

    This is a good starting point for work on oneself, but that’s about all. I remember feeling this way when I began this work and I was younger. Sure I felt incomplete, I was young! I knew that I had knowledge but lacked being. My conscience could tell me that. I also lacked a profession that I enjoyed, I lacked a family, and I lacked a full sense of myself. So I moved out of my hometown and joined a group to work on myself. Then I grew up. I would say each day I am alive is a movement toward completion of my life and work. But completion would be the end of something as in death. So even though I now have a family, profession I enjoy, and fuller sense of myself, I will probably always feel incomplete until I die and finish the final chapter of my life. How can one lose sight of that?

    I don’t remember ever lacking self-consciousness, do you? When I was young I always felt self-conscious everywhere I went, like I always had someone watching over my shoulder. It kept me out of trouble. I was taught there was a God looking out for each one of us, and I believed it. Didn’t you? I don’t ever remember feeling that I lacked self-consciousness, just being.

    Joining a spiritual group was my escape from all the sex, drugs and alcohol that were prevalent among my friends and me. That took self-consciousness. Then lo and behold, in the school I attracted even more sex, drugs, alcohol and now self-remembering, the new drug! And it took even more self-consciousness and an act of conscience to get me out that mess.

    When I was younger I certainly was a mass of contradictions, who isn’t with all the hormones raging and the sex center kicking in. The school and living at Renaissance created enough heat to fix my aim to be more in the present as opposed to less.

    Once you have an aim, you need to listen to your conscience and weigh everything against your aim, even if it takes you out of the school, that’s how you know when to graduate yourself. When the school’s aim goes against your aim, it’s time to go or you start losing time.

    For me, I found that being more open to change and the challenge of newness helped generate plenty of energy to be more in the present. I didn’t need ‘fine impressions’ or to pay someone else to set that agenda for me anymore, I could do that for myself. Isn’t that the way of the sly man? Use whatever circumstances you find yourself in to be in the present and as an opportunity to awaken your higher centers. In my mind, the higher centers can exist despite one’s mood; without higher centers kicked in depression or worse seems inevitable on this plane.

    “No one with a real conscience believes that he already has will and understands himself.”

    Usually one doesn’t join a ‘school’ or group believing they already have will and fully understands themselves. Doesn’t their conscience tell them so? Otherwise why would they join? The more you know yourself, the better your self understanding will be and that only comes with time, right efforts, and experience.

    “No one with a conscience feels positive about the fact that he doesn’t actually remember himself. “

    In the FOF is being present the same as remembering oneself? IMO remembering oneself is cumulative in the sense that it is to remember one’s fourth dimensional time body in relation to one’s actions and place in the cosmos. IMO to be present in the Fellowship of Friends means inhibiting your critical thinking (and conscience) by shackling your attention to your immediate (hopefully refined) surroundings for personal gratification purposes, while avoiding the real bigger picture and maintaining RB’s imaginary status quo without questioning it. My conscience told me that being present in the FOF is not real self-remembering. So I had to take action on my own behalf to create a better long term future for myself than the one RB had in mind for me. (The FOF doesn’t have a retirement plan for students, only the teacher.)

    “Conscience means not lying to your self at the deepest level.”

    What exactly is the lie that one would tell to oneself at the deepest level? That we are at the core animals, ignorant sinners, or pure love? I simply ask, do we act as animals, ignorant sinners, or out of pure love? That is how you tell if a person has a conscience, from their actions, not by what they say, but by what they do.

    “Something is wrong with a man as he exists in typical life, he is asleep.”

    Could all men and women existing in typical life awaken? Nothing is ‘wrong’ here everything is as it should be. I ask, do you deserve by your actions in this life to be more awake?

    “A man asleep can have no conscience; he only has the buffers he uses to justify his tenuous sense of self-assurance.”

    At the beginning of work on oneself, yes, our ego (or false personality) is protected and propped up by our elaborate buffers. But a life built of ‘right (conscious) livelihood’ and ‘right (conscious) actions’ will bolster one’s self-assurance in a grounded way and empower one to take action in matters of conscience, primarily out of self respect. This is why a man is judged by his actions. You just do what feels like the right thing to do, even if it is more difficult. And not buffering the truth is more difficult.

    “Any man that comes to the conclusion that he does not need to work on himself has lost any hope of coming under the influence of conscience.”

    Hey, anybody out there think they don’t need to work on themselves on any level? Your work is complete only when you die.


  360. WhaleRider 367

    “…and now self-remembering, the new drug!”

    Your complicating, superficial, continuously self-referencing lawless mind will eventually completely kill the rest of you. Simplify with sincerity and give up being an attention (from others) junkie.

    I’ve been involved with the ideas of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky for 34 years, joined the FOF after reading the books for almost a decade, left after a decade and have been working with the ideas for almost a decade and a half since then and I’m still not satisfied with myself. No one with a conscience is satisfied with himself.


  361. Ames #342,
    Re. ‘critical thinking’ material check The Teacing Company #4413;
    http://www.teach12.com
    a 24 lecture course titled “Tools of Thinking: Understanding the World Through Experience & Reason”.
    ( DVD, CD or Video).


  362. on June 10, 2007 at 9:08 am Lust for Life

    Wow! WhaleRider and Conscience…give yourselves a break! Surely conscience is about seeing that we are all the same below the shallow superficial differences, and realizing that we are perfect as we are, and we know what we want and need. All the other stuff is about an accumulated picture of ourselves, based on past experiences which has resulted in attitudes that make us think we are not good enough, we must continuously do something to get somewhere else, we are incomplete etc. etc. This may be a characteristic of people who joined the FOF…it is likely that many of us were looking for some kind of authority figure to ‘lead’ us, as we could not trust ourselves….gradually you see that, as Tornado says, ‘I am my eternal room-mate’ (great phrase!), and life is here for us to explore with them, not toil and work and labour and refer back constantly to some ‘conscience’ figure who tells us that we are never good enough, and the ‘work’ is never over until we die!!! Sounds like you could both do with some therapy to help you de-programme and find the joy of living,
    Sincerely, Lust.


  363. Good morning Whalerider: (Post #362/11)

    You wrote ~

    “Your work is complete only when you die.”

    Have you verified this and how?

    For the sake of balance, I have verified otherwise.

    _____________________

    Love to you all.


  364. “Every cult member thinks he or she is in the only real school on earth.”

    ***************
    WHY IS THIS SO?
    ***************

    “Because if a member of a cult would think there was a better group out there – they would be in that other group.”

    “This simple principal makes that there a worldwide 100,000’s of people in cults that think their specific cult is the real deal, the Only Real School.

    “All other people in other groups are misguided sheep that are doomed.”

    ***************
    WHY IS THIS SO?
    ***************

    “Because all the ‘teachers’ of all these groups told them so.”

    ***************
    AND WHY IS THIS SO?
    ***************

    …………………………………………………………..


  365. Part II

    Please don’t give me you answer to the question
    – or somebody else.
    Give it to yourself – you are what counts here.
    Not me and the others in your ‘school’.
    Keep it for yourself.

    It is fine to be misunderstood


  366. on June 10, 2007 at 9:58 am Lust for Life

    A good introductory essay on critical thinking for those interested:

    http://www.insightassessment.com/pdf_files/what&why2006.pdf


  367. Sheik,
    I like to read posts in realtime. I prefer a moderated blog – your moderation is much appreciated; But does not the moderated + realtime option require you to be working on this blog fulltime?
    My suggestion is, work the blog in whatever way is sustainable for you; i.e., whatever method ensures the continuance of the blog into the future.
    A million thanks for all your work. This monumental weblog is cathartic, rehabilitative, lifechanging. My virtual world is populated by amazing vital insightful & dynamic characters via the blog.


  368. Hello Friends.
    Some wonderfull posts recently!
    Does anyone know if the Roberta Mentioned above talked Japanese as im trying to establish who she was? The dark haired lady i knew did and i only found out accidentaly when she translated some for me.
    Can anyone give me feedback on my current understanding that it is the King of clubs or the thinking part of the reptilian part of the brain which is responsible for all “us and them” thinking.
    And that it is also therefore the root of nationalism.
    A friend told me a story of some journalists in Scandinavia who set the Islamic world on fire by having some cartoons of the Prophet Muhammed, peace be upon him. They had a fatois, im not sure how to spell it, but a death sentence on their heads and it caused trouble between their countries even. This is where extremist thinking leads suddenly people are been threatened with death over some cartoons.
    Sheik, it was a genius idea this blog!
    In relation to its continued form, my bucks worth is to leave it this way but perhaps to share the names of people posting under different names so that we can all see who is who. If that wouldnt be too much work for you.
    [Love is a Stranger by RUMI
    translated by Kabir Helminski]

    What shall I do, O Muslims?
    I do not recognize myself.
    I am neither Christian nor Jew,
    nor Magian, nor Muslim.
    I am not of the East, nor the West,
    not of the land, nor the sea.
    I am not from nature’s mine,
    nor from the circling stars.
    I am neither of earth nor water,
    neither of wind nor fire.
    I am not of the empyrean,
    nor of the dust on this carpet.
    I am not of the deep, nor from behind.
    I am not of India or China,
    not of Bulgaria, nor Saqsin;
    I am not of the kingdom of Iraqain,
    nor of the land of Khorasan.
    I am not of this world nor the next,
    not of heaven, nor of purgatory.
    My place is the placeless,
    my trace is the traceless.
    It is not the body nor is it the soul,
    for I belong to the soul of my love.
    I have put duality away
    and seen the two worlds as one.
    One I seek, One I know.
    One I see, One I call.
    He is the First, He is the Last.
    He is the outward, He is the Inward.
    I know of nothing but Hu, none but him.
    Intoxicated with the cup of love,
    two worlds slip from my hands.
    I am occupied with nothing
    but fun and carousing.
    If once in my life I pass a moment without You,
    I repent my life from that moment on.
    If once in this world
    I should win a moment with You,
    I will put both worlds under my feet
    and dance forever in joy.
    O Shams of Tabriz, I am so drunk in the world
    that except for revelry and intoxication
    I have no tale to tell.
    Best wishes, think good thoughts… Cyclops.


  369. on June 10, 2007 at 1:20 pm You-me-us-they

    Dear “Student”. You write (post 322):

    “And you please be a little bit more open to the possibility that there are also normal people in the fellowship living normal lifes while trying to be present to it.”

    I wonder what, in my post, made you think you or the FOF members are not experienced as “normal” or conducting a “normal” life.

    I did not even approached the theme but I could/can since there is much ab-normality in the FOF, in this blog (love the real time and no moderation option) and pretty much everyone!
    No big deal, unless you want to be special (opposed to normal ?).

    As Unoanimo (welcome back!) would say: it’s what you do with it which matters…

    You are sitting on the fence. Oh, Oh! are you sitting on the place I was sitting on for a while ?

    You see, again, this is, for me, the proper sharing.
    Thank you for that!

    Forget about being accused, not accused, right or wrong, celebrated or ignored: Be! Live your life as it is given to you,
    in the moment.

    I remember sitting on the fence,
    together with many who have posted here on and off,
    as a creative, not necessarily easy, but creative place to be.

    I knew:
    May you jump off the fence, either sides, you will fall on the NEW path you will have to walk.
    May you stay on the fence, this will the path for you to walk for a while longer!

    You see, there is no real but only imaginary separation…

    This was, in my view, what was “normal” or natural, or in harmony with being,
    unless you want to trun a frog into a cow (La Fontaine)
    which is clearly “not normal”!.

    I am open enough to look at You (whom I do not know, for what I know) as a free spirit on its way to freedom.
    No matter if it includes or excludes the FOF…

    Your path is your path. A path is a path!

    Gratitude.


  370. “If we are facing in the right direction, all we have to do is keep walking”.

    Buddhist teaching


  371. Dear You-me-us-they (post 373),

    thank you for your understanding and kindness. Yes in a certain way I’ll enjoy the slightly elevated postion of sitting (walking) on the fence for a better view. And obviously I have company there.


  372. Hello friends,
    There have been few thoughts expressed recently to put together something like a Contact list for ex-members and soon-to-be-ex-members.
    Few possible reasons: to stay connected, to be able to reach each other, to announce jobs or career opportunities, ask for help, to offer/ask for a place to stay while visiting other
    cities/countries, to be able to invite friends for dinners, concerts, various events etc.
    I heard that one of the fears of current members that there will be no connection to like-minded people, loss of friends, no possibility to travel and visit friends and no support in other areas of life in case they leave FOF. Although it may not be so (as many of us already know), but certainly a Contact list, or some sort of Directory may be helpful and supporting.
    All of this is on the levels of thoughts now, may be it will materialize may be not.
    I know that we have something like such list on East Coast, and few friends have something like this on West Coast. Shall we put it all together?
    Please share your thoughts about this. It would be nice to hear pros and cons.
    I am willing to start putting it together if there will be an expressed need for it, but I may eventually need some help.

    If you wish to be included in the list please send your info (whichever info you want to include) to malaec@optonline.net.
    For now it will be put in a simple file and can be e-mailed to listed participants.

    In friendship,
    Janna Makaeva
    FOF member 1996-2007
    malaec@optonline.net


  373. Dear “Student”. You write:“And you please be a little bit more open to the possibility that there are also normal people in the fellowship living normal lifes while trying to be present to it.”

    I can see that living at Isis could present the attitude that there are no other choices. Having property, jobs, friends, all fof…one’s whole community is fof. I can see just making the best of it. And it would take a leap of Divine Imagination to simply consider that those good things are attracted to you because of you and would still without the fof. Over and over ex members (don’t use the word ‘students’ for many reasons) express surprise and delight at life continuing/improving/evolving/awakening post-fof. You draw community to you, and draw your spiritual life to you. And it might just be so much better without the albatross of the fof which is rotten at the heart and decaying in spirit – that is being exposed. I do think that most isis members are good people who think you are stuck. Just try to suspend those beliefs from time to time.

    But there are others who are power players in the fof who are needful of their power positions who would have to give that up without the fof. Or at least they would have to start over somewhere else to build up their ‘authority’. Then the fof becomes a need – a sort of sick need.


  374. Conscience #364

    “No one with a conscience is satisfied with himself.”

    Sounds to me like a great recipe for a life of depression and anxiety, and not a life I choose for myself.

    You may have left the FOF but not the indoctrination of self-doubt that keeps people stuck in the FOF. I refer to myself, because that’s the person I know best. I have been working on myself with these fragmented ideas for as long as you have my friend, and obviously we have each crystallized a different style of conscience. As I said, yours seems a bit heavy to me. And I don’t seem to get a lot of attention from others on this blog, but I certainly have yours now. Anything else you want to project at me from your own lawless self-doubt is fine, I’ll work with it. Hopefully it will lighten you up a bit.

    unoanimo #367

    Good morning or g’day to you, sir! Thanks for your post. Personally, I plan on transforming negativity and radiating love to my family and those close to me until the day I die. That is I choice I have to make every day, and it takes a certain amount of effort on my part. Although, for me it is a labor of love. My experience of transforming negativity is not effortless…yet? Maybe it is different for you. That’s what I mean about the ‘work’, how about you? The law of octaves begins where it ends, ad infinitum. But I cannot know what efforts I will have to make, if any, after I die. Getting old is not for wimps either, ask anyone over the age of 70. It takes work to be an elder. Use it or lose it, right? How many years have you graced this planet? This is my fiftieth.

    Lust for Life #366

    My conscience allows me to experience the joy of living every day. I love my family, I love my job, I love where I live, and I love my life. Thank you for your kind thoughts.


  375. 376 Janna

    Thanks for your effort to establish a line of communications among members of ‘the Greater Fellowship community.’

    Regarding ‘support in other areas of life in case they leave FOF,’ Joseph G. offered his help (see the following part of his post 9/159 – http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/05/11/the-fellowship-of-friends-discussion-part-9/):

    “… If you are a business owner or manager who may be able to offer gainful employment somewhere on the planet, or if you are an FOF member who wants to explore his/her alternative career options, write to me at FOFmonster@sbsglobal.net and I will try to discreetly mediate a connection. No promises but what the heck, if it even helps one or two souls it’s worth a try.”


  376. Re: a new beginning:

    “… the opportunity that exists today may not come your way again. You may lose all your chances by hesitation and waiting too long.” (PDO in Notes on the Decision to Work)

    Friends, it’s not too late – Carpe Diem!


  377. Re Suffering– 360–Demi Moaned

    All suffering begins with imaginary suffering. All beliefs start with repeated thoughts or habits of thought. This is not verified but I guess that G. was pretty darned close when he said eleven repetitions results in a habit. A habit is an addiction. Not feeding the addiction is painful. Feeding it feels good and reinforces it. ie. If I have a thought that my misplaced tool was stolen by someone, it feels bad. Even if knowing myself I realize that this is highly unlikely and imagination and continue to search, what happens is that the rest of my system cooperates with this idea because I have had this repeated many times during my existence and the receptor for this addiction is well entrenched. Why would that be? Because every single time that this scenario was experienced in the past, it felt sooo gooood when the lost item was finally found. Relief is the actual psychological cause of the addiction. Reminds me of confession. The guilt feels bad, creates a stronger addiction, and confession brought relief which guaranteed more sining. A fantastic business plan, I’d say!

    What happened to the much talked about transformation possibility? Well chances are that the receptors are already in place, which means that there already exists the addiction, since they are mostly acquired in early childhood. Transformation, as hinted at in NLP (trance-formation), requires the formation of a different trance, a different addiction, and this needs to be done consciously, with awareness either by oneself or a therapist. So one must choose something to be addicted to which will be more acceptable. In a way it is substitute behavior. The evolutionary gain is that one chooses to go out and have more variety in experiences to find the ones that have never been had previously and which provide pleasure at the onset. This can only happen when the thoughts connected to the experience are positive, hence the non-expression of negative thoughts and emotions. Yes, I see the objections. This is because people usually expect all the angles to be carefully answered in a rediculously small space. One could write a book and there would still exist a need for another since the evolution goes on. The entire universe including all our thoughts is constantly expanding as it needs to. The universe is addicted to expansion. lol.

    Now even if everyone understood this process clearly, it would continue in each one of us. We are all in the same ballgame. It isn’t that some are more stupid than others.
    We all went out looking for the solution. On one level we all knew we were trapped unless the buffers were exceptionally effective. I am describing this theory, and it can only be theory at best unless an attempt is made to prove or disprove its effectiveness, because it feels good when I do this. An addiction is formed. I like to teach. My preference to lunar out is being dismantled, well at least temporarily. That receptor can now disappear. Which is better? Which is most satisfying or as Abraham-Hicks say, which feels better? In this moment I choose teaching about my tool, sharing what I have gained, helping others as I have helped myself. If this is considered sick, deluded, so be it. I am what I am.

    Joy to all. Happiness to all. Freedom to all. Love to all, now or in its proper time, Renald (Ron)


  378. WhaleRider 378

    In reply to Conscience #364

    “You may have left the FOF but not the indoctrination of self-doubt that keeps people stuck in the FOF.”

    What many offering their views here seem to forget or never understood is that there is a difference between the “ideas of the Fourth Way” and the FOF. Unfortunately many had the ideas of the Fourth Way sucked out of them even before they left the FOF.

    To those thinking about leaving the Fellowship, you will not lose your valuation for the Fourth Way work, even though much of the talk in this discussion seems to insist that that is the ultimate aim.


  379. Dear Conscience, you said: “I’ve been involved with the ideas of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky for 34 years, joined the FOF after reading the books for almost a decade, left after a decade and have been working with the ideas for almost a decade and a half since then and I’m still not satisfied with myself.”
    Well, may be something is not working? After 34 years of working with the same stuff still not being satisfied? I would try to change the tactics to get happy with yourself, try to find some joy.
    “No one with a conscience is satisfied with himself.” – that is a strange thing to say. First – how do you know? Second – why would it be so? It labels anyone who is at peace with himself as someone without conscience. May be you see conscience as some kind of guilt or self-deprecation?


  380. on June 10, 2007 at 6:41 pm Comic Relief

    “Experience is what you get when you don’t get what you want.” Dan Stanford

    “The man who views the world at 50 the same as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” Muhammad Ali

    “Here is the test to find whether your mission on earth is finished. If you’re alive, it isn’t.” Richard Bach

    “My interest is in the future because I am going to spend the rest of my life there.” Charles F. Kettering

    “He who laughs last didn’t get it.” Helen Giangregorio


  381. What’s the motivation that makes me write here?

    First, it is about contribution to the enrichment of life and the life of others (as Marshall Rossemberg would say)
    Ex.: Extending a hand (my experience) to my fellows human beings that are going through the same trial I went several years ago. Possibly giving them what I needed myself in those days. Support, connection, empathy, compassion.
    I realized I wouldn’t feel the pull to write here, if this was a blog for former students only

    It’s also about integrity;
    Even though the FOF experience was empowering and liberating for me, as I said in a post before; I left with the feeling you have when you know you could have helped so many people but you didn’t. I had to take care of myself instead.
    The timing was not right then.

    It s also about Authenticity and honesty:
    Expressing my truth, just because it is my truth. It may be not yours. It may not be theirs.
    So what?
    I’ve been living with myself for eons and I have no plans to change that.

    I better take my side once and for all!


  382. Janna-

    Your idea for a listing of former members sounds like a good one. It will be interesting to see what develops out of this blog. It certainly has allowed for a forum that I never got to experience while in the FOF.


  383. on June 10, 2007 at 7:21 pm for the Best_2

    Hello Sheik,

    Like many i will be happy with unmoderated real time posting with some kind of censoring of the offending posts.

    People may have the option to be insulting but they then should be signing with their real names. If insulting posts remain anonymous, then just deletion.

    Alex K.


  384. March 2, 1954 “Of all the oriental ways, Zen Buddhism seems nearest Western mentality and outlook. But personally, with every year I live on this continent, I become convinced tha the Oriental ways are not for us. Here in Latin America particularly, those who dabble in them seem to get into a backwater, cut off from all that is real and living in this time and place. I am sure that a new complete way is being created for the West, and that before the Oriental traditions can be absorbed into this way they have to go through a deep transformation.

    Now one begins to realize the tremendous scale on which Ouspensky was seeing, when, after abandoning the System*, he said: ‘You must reconstruct everything. Everything must be remade from the very beginning.’ It now seems to me that this reconstruction is something which is being launched from Great School*, and that it is connected with a crossroads in the history of humanity as important as that represented by the coming of Christ.

    It was always said about the Fourth Way* that it had to be followed IN LIFE, and that it considted in developing consciousness simultaneously in all centers*. Yet all that thas has been known about the Fourth Way till now seems only a prelude to the way which is now gradually being revealed by Great School to the West. For this new way seems to be based on the science of conscious harmony. It means creating harmony between all man’s functions, and between all sides of his life. It means creating harmony beween the different types* in a group. It means creating harmony between all the traditional ways—and beyond that, on another scale, between peoples, races and ages.”

    Rodney Collin, Fourth Way student


  385. Janna:

    I like the idea of supporting those that are leaving and I am sending you my info. (by the way I have the sense that MOST OF FOF students are going to be former students sooner or later, like you and me and many others thousands).

    Although, I feel very uncomfortable when I think of rescuing them. I don’t want to rescue them. Rescuing is one of the most disempowering things we can do to each other.

    For those that don’t know what it is, between others things, rescuing implies:

    1- Doing for others what they can do for themselves.
    (I always clean the mess after you made yourself a sandwich, because you don’t do it)

    2- Doing for others when they didn’t ask for any help.
    (I just apologized for you to our neighbor dear)

    3- Doing something for other person because we think we can do it better than they can it.
    (“Go do something else, I will do the laundry for you”)

    For example;
    Doing a “C section” when the baby is able to go through the channel by himself is unnecessary and is rescuing him from having the powerful experience of going through the channel by his own means.

    Rescuing creates resentment at the end. There is a rescuer and a rescued one that are not meeting at the same level. One is higher, more powerful, knows more, does it better, has more money, etc.
    The person that is being rescued may resent the other one because “you can do it and I can’t” and the person that is rescuing may resent the other one because “see how you pay me all the things I did for you!”

    In rescuing there is a sense of owing in the relationship. There is also usually a hidden agenda. Guilt trips, expectations, shame, etc.

    Rescuing is s recipe for conflict, pain and separation. And has been the main cause in tragedy in my relationships of the past.

    A question to myself is:
    How to find the balance of contributing to the life of all this students in need and letting them have their own experience that at the end will empower them?

    It’s a fine line, isn’t it?


  386. I would prefer real-time, semi-moderated, that is, remove offending posts and posters after the fact – but the offense should be egregious to qualify for removal. Don’t censor opinions, but don’t allow flaming space on the blog, it just discourages all but the well armored to contribute, or even read after awhile.

    You might add a short reminder somewhere obvious, perhaps in the Leave a Reply space, if that is possible, to avoid profanity, all caps, insults and insulting responses to insults.


  387. Shiek, I’m with 387.


  388. Hello Whalerider and Friends, (Post #378/11)

    You wrote ~

    “Although, for me it is a labor of love. My experience of transforming negativity is not effortless…yet? Maybe it is different for you. That’s what I mean about the ‘work’, how about you?”

    ________________________

    Ditto my friend.

    Can’t see any reason to get into the earth-age thing here, perhaps we’ll exchange prescriptions someday like in the beginning of the movie ‘Venus’… lol.

    Nope, its not different for me in principle, the transformation of negativity is always an effort for me, by its shear sudden existence implies the birthing of the octave for transforming it into something I can live into.

    BTW ~ Conscience cannot crystallize, good news yes? Level of consciousness, yes, though I do not sense that either of the two have crystallized in you prematurely.
    Toleration and expansion are two of your great indicators of this, be well my friend…

    Your aim towards your family is a universal quality that your particular spirit possesses as a conscious talent, this talent will grow and you will certainly apply it beyond the grave, continuously wherever your being attracts the applicable.

    __________________________________

    Love to you all.


  389. No person 383

    “Dear Conscience, you said: ‘I’ve been involved with the ideas of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky for 34 years, joined the FOF after reading the books for almost a decade, left after a decade and have been working with the ideas for almost a decade and a half since then and I’m still not satisfied with myself.'”

    “Well, may be something is not working? After 34 years of working with the same stuff still not being satisfied? I would try to change the tactics to get happy with yourself, try to find some joy.”

    This is a good point if it was made by an adolescent, but it is too simpleminded and naive a view for an adult with an understanding of psychological work to express seriously.

    “’No one with a conscience is satisfied with himself.’ – that is a strange thing to say.”

    The truth is always strange, if it doesn’t sound strange to the everyday frame of mind then it is probably not true.

    “First – how do you know?”

    Direct verification.

    “Second – why would it be so?”

    It is a psychological law. Men are asleep in false personality, especially when they insist that they are in fact naturally happy and doing everything right.

    “It labels anyone who is at peace with himself as someone without conscience.”

    No one is at peace with himself, if he thinks so then he is buffering beyond what is even typical.

    “May be you see conscience as some kind of guilt or self-deprecation?”

    I see conscience, which is very, very difficult to actually see and I don’t claim to have a clear view of it, as a liberator.


  390. Hello Conscience: (your Post#393/11)

    Since I just wrote Whalerider a note concerning conscience I thought your post was no coincidence so here goes a question to you ~

    Lots of weirdy stuff happens in this blog, its a good tool to bend that which is often too rigid and straighten the often too laid back, sometimes its that screwdriver you have to put in the vice and bend at a right angle to reach that bolt that only people being paid $115/hr can reach for you.

    You wrote ~

    “I see conscience, which is very, very difficult to actually see and I don’t claim to have a clear view of it, as a liberator.”

    That’s an odd thing to write at the end of an exposition on Conscience, linking so much of your sense of self to its condition, using it as a sort of ‘prerequisite’ or ‘gauge’, very odd indeed.

    To me, it would seem that if you cannot claim to have a clear view of it than this would compromise the whole house’s view, i.e., the foundation on which you are basing your discussion via Conscience.

    You say that no one with a conscience is satisfied with themselves, then state that you have verified this directly, yet, you claim not to have a clear view of Conscience… How do you attain “Direct verification” using an aspect that you don’t have a “clear view of”?

    Is not ‘direct verification’ based on eye contact, clear view?

    It seems that you guys are playing semantic King of Diamonds games. Not being satisfied with oneself can go both ways, I am not saying your taking it into the destructive, descending extreme…

    Like an artist once said, “If your satisfied, then you’re dead.” Perhaps that is what you are speaking of, the insatiable sense of adventure, yet, this is not conscience,
    its an aspect of your essence, your deep love of continuance, curiosity, enduring and becoming.

    I think we often try to use big words personally, this usually results in 10-15 blog entries schematically whirling here and there trying to find objectivity where it cannot be found since the octave began with a personal interpretation of an objective force. Go figure.

    Conscience,

    I truly do not believe a word you wrote came from your first line, its too ‘prove my strangeness self against your adolescent normality’ to be coming from a place of sincere
    conversation.

    In blog environments there are things people say that would never survive the eye contact of a real conversation , that is, so long as it’s not a tennis match of opposite I’s.

    For me, its best to not try and get into the wardrobe of big words unless the wardrobe comes to you.

    One day I awoke wearing a pair of orange socks, I kept them on and questioned nothing, I’m a bit superstitious when it comes to things like that.

    Not being satisfied may be more good news, perhaps it means you’re working against old habit setting in, as they will by shear mathematical time compounding in the psyche and body. I won’t say ‘Have Fun!’, though I can sincerely thank you for being so open here, this is what real work is about, taking chances to try and understand that we are all connected, satisfied or not.

    Love to you all.


  391. unoanimo 394

    “One day I awoke wearing a pair of orange socks, I kept them on and questioned nothing, I’m a bit superstitious when it comes to things like that.”

    Is does not surprise me that you ‘came to’ apparently not remembering how you got into that condition or that you decided that it was a good idea to parade around like that.


  392. Conscience #393:

    “The truth is always strange, if it doesn’t sound strange to the everyday frame of mind then it is probably not true.”

    This statement may be an example of a logical fallacy: circular reasoning. You defend the claim (truth is always strange) by using the conclusion (if not strange, then not true) to support the claim. Your use of the word “always” is a red flag, as you should have learned from reading about “formatory mind.”

    Also a red flag, your underlying certainty that you are right, in this and the following statements:

    “It is a psychological law. Men are asleep in false personality, especially when they insist that they are in fact naturally happy and doing everything right. ”

    “No one is at peace with himself, if he thinks so then he is buffering beyond what is even typical.”

    These could be taken straight out of The Psychology of Man’s Possible Evolution. You recite them like dogma. You’ve bought into these notions hook, line and sinker. You’ve invested years of your life “verifying” them. You’ve constructed a thought-prison in which you are doomed to make efforts, never finding peace with yourself, never being good enough. Don’t you get it? Abandon the system!

    What if you believed that you and others were basically present and awake? Maybe that belief would be just as easily verified. What if you believed that your observations and judgments to the contrary (i.e. what a sleeping machine I am!) were nothing more than thoughts, passing “I’s ” not to be believed?

    What if you let go of the need for intellectual certainty? (Maybe this is what O meant when he said, “All the worse for you if you are right.”) What if you just shucked all the intellectual gymnastics, took a deep breath, opened your heart, and looked out of your eyes into the here-and-now, infinitely present, wild crazy beautiful world?

    “The world offers itself to your imagination/calls to you like the wild geese, harsh and exciting/over and over announcing your place/in the family of things.” – Mary Oliver

    I know: scary.

    Don’t worry. “You’re given wings.” – Rumi


  393. I agree with Conscience about the never being satisfied part. I think that if we try to see deeper we will find that just being alive and living on the planet is destructive. Conscience is about relationship with others. (‘Others’ can mean many things.) This does not need to give rise to guilt, or being unhappy. It could give rise to compassion and gratitude.


  394. It occurred to me that I throughly enjoy, even though there are rough patches, the intellectual and emotional ride that this blog provides me. But if I was still in the FOF the knowledge of the blog would consume me, tear me apart between the desire and the fear to know, the task to separate and the need to defend. The inner confusion, will it be acknowledged? I know the impasse because I’ve been through it myself, I remember clearly the feelings of loss and fear that each subsequent departure created, even the people I never knew. When I joined the school it was still saturated with the loss of Miles, so even if I never me him I remeber him through the sadness painted on people’s faces s they spoke of him. What to do, here is a question, read more, open yourself to the possibility that something is wrong, that Robert is wrong, that you are wrong, that you eventually might have to throw all this out of your life?
    And what are throwing out, here is a question.
    What are you really throwing out?


  395. on June 10, 2007 at 10:11 pm Skeptical Optimist

    Sheik, I’m for the real-time posting IF we can also get rid of the hate speech, like Sharon 390 proposes or 387’s idea.

    JoelF


  396. sorry for all the spelling mistakes of post 398…


  397. Cathie #396

    Conscience #393:

    “The truth is always strange, if it doesn’t sound strange to the everyday frame of mind then it is probably not true.”

    “This statement may be an example of a logical fallacy: circular reasoning. You defend the claim (truth is always strange) by using the conclusion (if not strange, then not true) to support the claim. Your use of the word “always” is a red flag, as you should have learned from reading about “formatory mind.”

    G. I. Gurdjieff:

    “We are made in such a way that we can live in four states of consciousness, but such as we are we use only two: one when we are asleep, and the other when we are what we call ‘awake’—that is to say, in this present state, when we can talk, listen, read, write and so on. But these are only two out of four possible states. The third state of consciousness is very strange.”

    Our usual sense of reality comes out of “formatory mind” and makes us believe that understanding is only a question of logical reasoning, we reason ourselves into a sense of reality that suits our nature and then we feel comfortable as long as no effective challenge to that reality interjects itself into our thinking. When our perceptions are confronted by some genuine truth, when we enter into a higher state, it >always


  398. (the previous post was cutoff for some reason)

    Cathie #396

    Conscience #393:

    “The truth is always strange, if it doesn’t sound strange to the everyday frame of mind then it is probably not true.”

    “This statement may be an example of a logical fallacy: circular reasoning. You defend the claim (truth is always strange) by using the conclusion (if not strange, then not true) to support the claim. Your use of the word “always” is a red flag, as you should have learned from reading about “formatory mind.”

    G. I. Gurdjieff:

    “We are made in such a way that we can live in four states of consciousness, but such as we are we use only two: one when we are asleep, and the other when we are what we call ‘awake’—that is to say, in this present state, when we can talk, listen, read, write and so on. But these are only two out of four possible states. The third state of consciousness is very strange.”

    Our usual sense of reality comes out of “formatory mind” and makes us believe that understanding is only a question of logical reasoning, we reason ourselves into a sense of reality that suits our nature and then we feel comfortable as long as no effective challenge to that reality interjects itself into our thinking. When our perceptions are confronted by some genuine truth, when we enter into a higher state, it >always


  399. There we have it then. Real time it is.


  400. Inner Confusion, why are my post being cut short? Any idea?


  401. (third try)

    Cathie #396

    Conscience #393:

    “The truth is always strange, if it doesn’t sound strange to the everyday frame of mind then it is probably not true.”

    “This statement may be an example of a logical fallacy: circular reasoning. You defend the claim (truth is always strange) by using the conclusion (if not strange, then not true) to support the claim. Your use of the word “always” is a red flag, as you should have learned from reading about “formatory mind.”

    G. I. Gurdjieff:

    “We are made in such a way that we can live in four states of consciousness, but such as we are we use only two: one when we are asleep, and the other when we are what we call ‘awake’—that is to say, in this present state, when we can talk, listen, read, write and so on. But these are only two out of four possible states. The third state of consciousness is very strange.”

    Our usual sense of reality comes out of “formatory mind” and makes us believe that understanding is only a question of logical reasoning, we reason ourselves into a sense of reality that suits our nature and then we feel comfortable as long as no effective challenge to that reality interjects itself into our thinking. When our perceptions are confronted by some genuine truth, when we enter into a higher state, it >always


  402. (found the problem)

    Cathie #396

    Conscience #393:

    “The truth is always strange, if it doesn’t sound strange to the everyday frame of mind then it is probably not true.”

    “This statement may be an example of a logical fallacy: circular reasoning. You defend the claim (truth is always strange) by using the conclusion (if not strange, then not true) to support the claim. Your use of the word “always” is a red flag, as you should have learned from reading about “formatory mind.”

    G. I. Gurdjieff:

    “We are made in such a way that we can live in four states of consciousness, but such as we are we use only two: one when we are asleep, and the other when we are what we call ‘awake’—that is to say, in this present state, when we can talk, listen, read, write and so on. But these are only two out of four possible states. The third state of consciousness is very strange.”

    Our usual sense of reality comes out of “formatory mind” and makes us believe that understanding is only a question of logical reasoning, we reason ourselves into a sense of reality that suits our nature and then we feel comfortable as long as no effective challenge to that reality interjects itself into our thinking. When our perceptions are confronted by some genuine truth, when we enter into a higher state, it *always* seems strange to the “formatory mind.” Reality always seems strange to the artificial mental reality that we usually live in. What mind do you think invented the debating point of ‘circular logic’? Do you think that comes from a state of higher consciousness?

    “These could be taken straight out of The Psychology of Man’s Possible Evolution.”

    Okay, so you got bored with the ideas that Peter Ouspensky spent most of his life working with, I didn’t. If you’re more liberated than I am then how come my narrow-mindedness generates so much opposition in you? Why not just laugh and go on picking daisies?

    You have a good, fresh energy and I don’t want to make you permanently angry with me, because I really have no opposition to your challenges. I don’t want to convince you of my way of living. I want you to go on being happy and seemingly without a lot of heavy cares in life. I don’t want you to have to carry the concerns that I carry around with me. But I am a practitioner of Ouspensky’s (Gurdjieff’s and on back in time) psychological system even if he was rumored to have abandoned it just before his death. You’re probably annoyed with much of what I say because some part of you still responds to these uncompromising insistences about the psychology of men that is integral to the Fourth Way. In my view we are not free to make up any world we chose to believe in, because the ‘I’s will change and change again and eventually something will recognize that can we never actually understand ourselves or life by trusting the outlook that emerges out of our natural wishes. Even from a disadvantaged state of understanding it is necessary to work with what you feel you recognize as “objective” while seldom having the consciousness required to know that it is in fact objective. There is always a gamble and never a guarantee. I’ve made my bet and post my views here from my understanding like everyone else. My guess is that there are other ex-members that are still interested in the Fourth Way ideas and do not see them as FOF brainwashing. Naturally I want to talk about what interests me just as others talk about what interests them.


  403. on June 10, 2007 at 11:09 pm Truth is Where You Find It

    Hello, Sheik,

    Could you please delete the duplicate posts 402 & 405 and post 404 that mentions them. And also this one, of course. Les to scroll through. Thanks


  404. on June 10, 2007 at 11:17 pm Comic Relief

    Some interesting ‘life’ parallels to FoF/Isis:

    Cost of big events at Isis:
    “Hollywood is a place where they’ll pay you a $1000 dollars for a kiss and 50 cents for your soul.” Marilyn Monroe

    Possible reasons for visiting or living near Isis:
    “Millions of Americans visit Washington yearly: some like to see the sights, while others like to be near their money.”

    One view on FoF marriages:
    “In Hollywood a marriage is a success if it outlasts milk.” Rita Rudner

    You mean FoF didn’t invent ‘intentional insincerity’?:
    “That’s what show business is – sincere insincerity.” Benny Hill

    Suspected source of many daily cards/quotes:
    “The only ‘ism’ Hollywood believes in is plagiarism.” Dorothy Parker

    Personality; true, false and otherwise:
    “Hollywood is a world with all the personality of a paper clip.”

    The play is written…:
    “If it’s a good script I’ll do it. And if it’s a bad script, and they pay me enough, I’ll do it.” George Burns

    On Waking Up:
    “Some people wake up and find themselves famous; others find themselves famous and then wake up.”

    Is it real, or is it….?:
    “The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you’ve got it made.” Groucho Marx

    On RB’s New Math:
    “Even in the valley of the shadow of death, two and two do not make six.” Leo Tolstoy

    On FoF lawsuits:
    “People are getting smarter nowadays; they are letting lawyers, instead of their conscience, be their guide.” Will Rogers

    What a few already know, many suspect, and many more will discover in due time (including the pun):
    “Leaders go down in history – some farther down than others.”

    That funny feeling about some FoF teachings:
    “How is it that so often…I get the feeling I’ve worked hard to learn something I already know, or knew, once.” Linda Ellerbee

    Last act of ‘considering’. You decide whether its ‘inner’ or ‘external’:
    “Excuse my dust.” Suggested by Dorothy Parker for her epitaph.


  405. Sheik – I too often feel literally ill when confronted with the hard-core racists, anti-Semites, homophobes and simply free-floating flamers that appear more frequently and virulently, now that you are not directly moderating. But in checking my attitudes, I found one, apparently still dressed in a tuxedo, daintily extending its pinkie 45 degrees from a Meissen teacup into the pristine air and looking down its nose through rose garden glasses that sniffed, “WE are above this sort of thing. Goodness, won’t someone relieve us of this disturbing impression?”
    Many current FOF members have begged, often with a sadly touching sincerity, that people stop posting all this information that disturbs them so much. The obvious answer – don’t read -, addresses only the most literal aspect of their situation. What they are really saying is “I and others have started to think and feel in ways that are disturbing to my picture of the world and it makes me unhappy. Please make it so like it never was”: a purely emotional plea that cannot be addressed with logic.
    It seems I wanted something similar from the blog; an artificial environment shielded from all the nasties. If I continue to read entries from people who I know have nothing but inanity or hate to offer, then I need to look to look to a source a little closer to my mouse – at attitudes that claim exemption from ugliness as my birthright and which absurdly assume that if I frown at my monitor hard enough, those people will stop writing such things.
    Deleting “offensive” posts after the fact has at least two drawbacks: 1. People who read the blog regularly will still see all those posts before they are deleted – only those who are several days behind will be spared; 2. It requires almost as much from you as full moderation – just a bit looser timeframe to do the clean up work.

    I did like the fully moderated system we had before, yet I have some idea how much time and commitment from you is required for such an arrangement, and it seems to me we need to let you get on with your life, re-introduce yourself to your friends etc. Thank you once more for midwifing us, but we can’t ask you to put us through university. You have the opportunity of leaving the Fellowship of Friends without ever having been a member, a sort of immaculate ejection. In any event, I would enjoy seeing comments from you from time to time. Sane posters outside the FOF tragicomedy are rare here.
    And a general plug to everyone: bandwidth/hosting is not free, moderation or no, so please consider fondling the “Paypal” icon on the home page if you can spare some change.


  406. Well put, Joe…i have felt also sick to my stomach, until I realized so much was exaggerated, lying and simply a bunch of hatemongers throwing mud—so my vote is too for real time / uncensored. Let the chips fall indeed where they may! you cannot really draw the line for this dirty little business we call free speech unless someone is actully inciting any violent action, and as we know, with just a few lazy old farts who have some extra time on their hands to vent, this is highly unlikely to happen!

    Please use the PAYPAL and donate to our midwife from Cheque Republic!


  407. Reply to Conscience (Post #395/11)

    Go girl!

    That was a metaphorical story, those orange socks,
    I guess using poetics has its risks.

    BTW, the ‘3 strikes’ you experienced trying to
    post that article, you asked the Sheik ~

    “Inner Confusion, why are my post being cut short? Any idea?”

    A possible answer straight from Fairy Tale Land itself ~

    This is what happens when you dig up the corpse of George Gurdjieff, prop him up at the batters plate and ask
    him to swing for you.

    3 strikes and your back on the bench ‘inner confusion’.

    Rock on dude!

    __________________________________

    Love to you all.


  408. In reply to 392–unoanimo

    Would you say that being crystallized might be very similar to being addicted to a concept, belief, or even thought, sensation, or emotion and not be aware of being addicted?

    “BTW ~ Conscience cannot crystallize, good news yes? Level of consciousness, yes, though I do not sense that either of the two have crystallized in you prematurely.
    Toleration and expansion are two of your great indicators of this,”

    For my personal interest, could you please rate the following emotions on a scale of 1-4 with 1 being better feeling down to 4 being worst feeling or more negative?
    boredom, doubt, toleration,pessimism

    Could you also compare being asleep to lack of conscience relatively speaking? All comments appreciated on all of the above questions.

    re. 395–Conscience–Cheap shot, arrogance, negative. Could be or become habitual. Cheers!

    Someone recently mentionned the observation that longish words tend to attract a large number of replies due to the obfuscation factor (sorry, I kinda like that one, sounds sexy to me). Actually this is logical. The more simply an idea is expressed, the more effective it can be. If it’s a photo, then one either accepts it or buffers it and then allows it to slide to the back burner. No problem! No resistance! (Opposite I’s to some). Cool!


  409. Hello Shiek,

    It says very clearly at the start of the blog that:

    “Enjoy the discussion, be civil and polite, and above all have fun!”

    The easy answer is to block the IP addresses of the repeat offenders who are “not civil, or polite.”

    A few bad apples are spoiling the overall tone of the blog. Some of the posts are more appropriate for Sean Hannidy, or Rush Limbau discussion blog, than a discussion about FOF.

    I say block the few trouble makers, and the blog will run smoothly by itself with little moderation. This is what the moderators of most successful discussion groups do to avoid this problem. You could always easy let the rude posters back on again after a certain amount of time if they change their ways.

    I did like the suggestion, however, of letting people use their real names to break guidelines and publish rude posts. Perhaps these posters could be made an exception to being blocked since they are backing up their words by using their real names.

    Also, I suggest you delete comments that are off topic. There seem to be more of them recently since you stopped moderating it. These off topic comments will pull the discussion away from its original intent. That is of course unless you want the discussion about FOF to spiral off and die.

    Thanks for effort.


  410. For those not much in touch with how the blog is affecting the FOF

    ‘The blog is the worst thing that ever happened to the Fellowship’

    Linda T. May 2007.

    I personally know of at least a dozen people who began by denouncing the blog when it first started to gather steam but now are planning to leave FOF in the near future…..


  411. on June 11, 2007 at 12:51 am Motorcycle Gangster

    Moon Angel 413
    Hello Shiek,

    It says very clearly at the start of the blog that:

    “Enjoy the discussion, be civil and polite, and above all have fun!”

    The easy answer is to block the IP addresses of the repeat offenders who are “not civil, or polite.”

    A few bad apples are spoiling the overall tone of the blog. Some of the posts are more appropriate for Sean Hannidy, or Rush Limbau discussion blog, than a discussion about FOF.

    I say block the few trouble makers, and the blog will run smoothly by itself with little moderation. This is what the moderators of most successful discussion groups do to avoid this problem. You could always easy let the rude posters back on again after a certain amount of time if they change their ways.

    I did like the suggestion, however, of letting people use their real names to break guidelines and publish rude posts. Perhaps these posters could be made an exception to being blocked since they are backing up their words by using their real names.

    Also, I suggest you delete comments that are off topic. There seem to be more of them recently since you stopped moderating it. These off topic comments will pull the discussion away from its original intent. That is of course unless you want the discussion about FOF to spiral off and die.

    ________________________

    I’m not sure if I’m one of the bad apples spoiling the feel-good climate that Moon Angel implies exists without directly defining it in which he or she feels a responsibility as part of those that collect in the name of the common good to protect decent folks against the stragglers that refuse to go along, but just to make sure I am I want to state that my relevance to the topic of this blog is that I am advocating that ex-members rejoin the FOF just to do what the machine does not want to do. Those in the FOF should leave and those that have left should rejoin, because this would solve many, many problems, obviously.


  412. on June 11, 2007 at 1:26 am Veronicapoe

    The blog is a terrible thing for Linda T too, it would have to be. She has spent her entire adult life–from her late teens now well into her fifties–under the moral suasion, if you want to call it that, of a profoundly mentally ill individual. Can you imagine having to confront that reality?


  413. A few thoughts on the the role of the Sheik:

    I think unmoderated, realtime is the way to go. However, Joe Average do you think that the unmoderated blog doesn’t need a manager? Somebody has to continue to start new pages because the blog fills up quickly (10,000 hits in 5 days) and the pages take longer and longer to load.

    I think the idea of using your real name if you want to break the posted rules of etiquette is good. I’m all for real names. However, we seemed to have a fake Sydney Russell at one point and only the Sheik was able to verify (as I recall) the validity of the person’s identity. Actually, I guess the imposter fessed up, but who wants to count on that happening evreytime there is identity theft? It would be useful to maintain some level of identity integrity.

    Regarding hateful entries, for me personally, the small minority of bad apple entries (vile, racist, narrow minded remarks) have not spoiled the overall experience . There are so many wonderful posts. Some I “relate” to more than others, but they are all useful.

    grateful…….


  414. Hello Renald: (Post #412/11)

    I will answer you soon, so to speak,
    sometime between now and 2 or 3 AM,
    which is not to be confused with the now that
    will still be occurring after those appointed times.

    Great questions, I like inquiry and yes, the word
    ‘obfuscation’, is sorta ‘sexy’ in its own sphere I suppose,
    do you think it would need a pair of orange socks?

    Hello Mole (Post #414/11)

    Lol…. Such a statement coming from Linda T., nearly brings me to

    compare it to a summer’s day, in thine own eye doth thy weep what weeping wept taught itself never to cry about?

    And as thy doves, sent free of charge from the Amazon basin, doth roam about the gardens daintily, by what doth thy cast of feral cats have in common with such plump comrades as to dabble so close to their flapping meanderings?

    Oh, lakeside basketh in purple moonlit harleys,
    what doth thine eye casteth itself purely upon?
    a sudden giggling heard at lake front periphery,
    but a lost wayfarer janitor sweeping the sands saying
    ‘This dust is deep, deep, deep as thy love for you, oh, thy hostesses footprints truer than the glass shoe; doth thy wish me sweep this floor clean, then I will, for you, only you, I will sweep to China.

    ________________________

    I would advise Linda and all current Fellowship of Friends members that, if they wish to grow up in this incarnation, to look deeper (at the Cause) than the obvious Effect (the Blog), which by now has gone far beyond the main subject of Robert Burton, or has it?

    Not acknowledging the ‘do’, ‘the cause’, ‘the first lie’, something Robert Burton has taught you guys how to expertly cotton club yourselves with to such a degree that taking responsibility for your ‘karmic vibratory environment’ would be ‘feminine dominance’, ‘identification’ right?

    or is it simply advanced ‘inner considering’ bathed with a light puree of ‘fear of loosing the boundaries’ that entertain only Robert Burton’s version of what is and is not ‘mechanical’ or the will of the gods…

    In America you could, once upon the time, have called it ‘The Walton Family Syndrome’.

    After all, why ‘do’?

    since you ‘cannot do’ and are not in the Fellowship of Friends to learn conscious ‘doing’ or conscious ‘will’ or to create an astral body, since 99.5% of the members are not on their last lifetimes, what’s the use, it might as well be someone else’s will, someone else’s astral body, hey, you’ve got 45 of them, who needs yours?

    Sounds to me that its a condition of an expertly spun case of the heebie jeebies or group non existence.

    ____________________

    Try this Linda, take a subject of an action that you would call performing ‘feminine dominance’, now, spin this, try and make it into a conscious action, an act of ‘doing’, ‘making an effort’, Robert Burton is an expert at this, spinning poo into uranium. Don’t worry, you can do it, I know you can…

    Here’s the rub ~

    There’s an old man whose walking across the street, he’s carrying a sign that reads ‘Sacramento’.

    Logical mind says ~ ‘I am not going to Sacramento, I am going to Roseville’ and you keep going past him.

    Then, true personality gets a blurb in and says, ‘It would have been feminine dominance to have given him something he did not want’.

    Consciousness might say ‘You could drop him off half way, better some external consideration than none.’ See? clever, yes? Well, no, not really:

    but Robert Burton sure is clever when he spins it, that’s because you guys are the only dizzy ones watching his static show, he’s standing atop the merry-go-round support pole, which is stationary, yet, its a merry-go-round perch.

    Now, a ‘really, really’ good student might see the sign
    ‘Sacramento’ and think ‘sacrament’, then ‘o’, meaning ‘nothing’, equals ‘Sacrament of nothing.’ Couple this with the destination of ‘Roseville’ and you’ve got ‘Rose’, ‘v’, ‘ill’, ‘Rose victory ill’… Put them together

    ‘Sacrament of nothing, a rose-victory of ill.’

    Well, by this time he’s gone and you say to yourself, ‘

    ‘Welp, I guess it wasn’t meant to be, though gotta shoot a line to Judith about this ‘shock’, damn!, I should have got a digital picture of that guy for next Sundays meeting, Robert’s gonna love this.’

    You guys don’t need a crystal ball, you’re in it.

    The balancing out, of the subject of Robert Earl Burton, is what’s happening to the Fellowship of Friends folks, get a grip on the rake Linda and go get those leaves of grass, Walt Whitman is watching you, under your boots even.

    Linda, remember, your speaking in real time, at at the end of the world, “…the worse thing to happen to the FOF.” This is a very relative term, like, relative to yesterday.

    Babe, you’ve seen nothing yet.

    ____________________________

    Love to you all.


  415. Correction to Post #418/11

    ,your speaking in real time, not at the end of the world, “…

    Love to you all, again.


  416. Thanks Sheik, for keeping it real, and for being our monitor. You are really helping out a huge number of people here, past, present and future. Ironic that we require a Brit to protect our American right to free speech!

    unoanimo #392

    Thanks for your post. Conscience cannot crystallize? Hmm…I don’t mind wearing those sox for awhile…waxes and wanes then, like spandex? You mean like I could possibly lose it? I suppose everyone has their price, then. Certainly if you ignore your conscience enough times it seems grow weaker to the point of apathy. Maybe we are born with a spongy kind of conscience then; if it gets too dried out just add a little water (knowledge) perhaps?

    I suppose if you lost touch with it completely, as I have observed in others, with the appropriate 12-step program for you could recover it, but of course you really have to want to…and you have take baby steps at first…and express your gratitude each morning and night for all that you’ve taken for granted in your life…and learn to forgive yourself…and make amends to the Iraqi’s you have burned…

    I want to keep mine. It allows me to make choices more easily, without endless or neutralizing intellectual debate. When I am stuck on making a decision, my conscience is the third force. I do what feels like the right thing to do, which usually means making an effort of some sort. During the day, I remember the self…that at the end of the day desires to feel satisfied that I have done the best I could for that day. Most of the time I do, sometimes I don’t.

    Conscience #382

    Thanks for your post. I can tell you take your work seriously. I think we can both agree that one can still work on oneself with the fourth way ideas (however we perceive them), in or out of the FOF. It is our consciences that carried both of us out of the FOF to continue working on our own.

    The FOF’s brand of ‘self-remembering’ for self gratifying, insatiable vanity purposes is what I consider addictive.

    “…eventually something will recognize that we can never actually understand ourselves or life by trusting the outlook that emerges out of our natural wishes.” Sounds like Freud.

    I prefer Jung….we have access within us to a vast collective of wisdom and symbolic language that we share with all humans regardless of race, which we can use to communicate with and receive insights from the deepest levels of ourselves, to in fact, understand ourselves better.

    BTW, I love daises! Did you know they love lots of water? My kids and I see them everyday on our walk to school. I have to remind my kids not to pick them so that others in our city can enjoy them, too. When we find worms on the sidewalk on rainy days, I pick them up and put them back in the dirt near a tree. I don’t care if they think I’m nuts when I teach them that by saving the life of just that one worm, it can make a difference in the ecology of the entire planet. Where would we be without worms?

    Alice in W #397

    Thanks for your post. Conscience has everything to do about relationships with others, yes, I agree! That’s why psychopaths are usually best kept in lockdown. They lack a conscience and the ability to sustain meaningful relationships with others, even with a pet.

    It is an element of narcissism within a person that holds them to an inhuman, unattainable standard. Being unable to attain the standard leaves one unsatisfied and unfulfilled with an inner deficit that makes one vulnerable to depressed moods, addictions, and chronic irritability. This clouds the reason. It is essential to marry mental clarity with conscience…i.e., a clear conscience. You cannot be compassionate without a conscience.

    Mole #414 YOU ARE AWESOME, DUDE! Thanks for your post.


  417. pray tell, Whalerider, what is the awesome part about Mole (414) saying the obvious, that some members are thinking of leaving? Does this take a genius? ???


  418. forgive me for getting a few extra posts in, I am afraid I am going to get axed soon as one of the “offenders”–the not so “nice” ones in the twisted accepted way of this blog. As long as you are against the FOF, it can be false, exaggerated, defaming, invading someone’s privacy, dragging teacher, Girard, and others tru the mud–Hey folks, that is just FINE. But woe on the A-hole jerk, idiot, nasty SOB that tries to put the exfoffers a little on their toes. go figure!

    LOL


  419. Veronicapoe (416) “a profoundly mentally ill individual”–are you talking about yourself again, you sick puppy? and BTW, Linda is doing just mahvelous! a lot better than you, for sure!

    LOL


  420. Unanimo: “Sacramento’ and think ’sacrament’, then ‘o’, meaning ‘nothing’, equals ‘Sacrament of nothing.’ Couple this with the destination of ‘Roseville’ and you’ve got ‘Rose’, ‘v’, ‘ill’, ‘Rose victory ill’… Put them together
    ‘Sacrament of nothing, a rose-victory of ill.’ ”

    I can see in my crystal ball that you have a very rewarding career ahead of you as a conscious being! RB could learn a little from you my man!

    Keep up the good work!


  421. Let me try again…

    Conscience
    Cathie #396

    Conscience #393:

    “The truth is always strange, if it doesn’t sound strange to the everyday frame of mind then it is probably not true.”

    “This statement may be an example of a logical fallacy: circular reasoning. You defend the claim (truth is always strange) by using the conclusion (if not strange, then not true) to support the claim. Your use of the word “always” is a red flag, as you should have learned from reading about “formatory mind.”

    G. I. Gurdjieff:

    “We are made in such a way that we can live in four states of consciousness, but such as we are we use only two: one when we are asleep, and the other when we are what we call ‘awake’—that is to say, in this present state, when we can talk, listen, read, write and so on. But these are only two out of four possible states. The third state of consciousness is very strange.”

    Our usual sense of reality comes out of “formatory mind” and makes us believe that understanding is only a question of logical reasoning, we reason ourselves into a sense of reality that suits our nature and then we feel comfortable as long as no effective challenge to that reality interjects itself into our thinking. When our perceptions are confronted by some genuine truth, when we enter into a higher state, it >always


  422. Conscience
    Cathie #396

    Conscience #393:

    “The truth is always strange, if it doesn’t sound strange to the everyday frame of mind then it is probably not true.”

    “This statement may be an example of a logical fallacy: circular reasoning. You defend the claim (truth is always strange) by using the conclusion (if not strange, then not true) to support the claim. Your use of the word “always” is a red flag, as you should have learned from reading about “formatory mind.”

    G. I. Gurdjieff:

    “We are made in such a way that we can live in four states of consciousness, but such as we are we use only two: one when we are asleep, and the other when we are what we call ‘awake’—that is to say, in this present state, when we can talk, listen, read, write and so on. But these are only two out of four possible states. The third state of consciousness is very strange.”

    Our usual sense of reality comes out of “formatory mind” and makes us believe that understanding is only a question of logical reasoning, we reason ourselves into a sense of reality that suits our nature and then we feel comfortable as long as no effective challenge to that reality interjects itself into our thinking. When our perceptions are confronted by some genuine truth, when we enter into a higher state, it >always


  423. on June 11, 2007 at 3:46 am Living the Questions

    To Laughing Love (#11-355), Half Life (#11-365) and Lust for Life (#11-370), thank you for your help; I appreciate your time and energy.

    To Conscience (#11-425, 426 and unfortunately many more…)
    If you are putting in symbols such as carots (letter “v” sideways one direction or the other), the blog program interprets this as an html command (see just before the last word “always” of your posts). If you don’t give the correct command, the program doesn’t know what to do. So, don’t use carots unless you know what you are doing—use brackets or something else instead!

    Today I’m moved to thank you all by offering some wonderful verse by…

    Straight Talk From Fox

    Listen says fox it is music to run
    over the hills to lick
    dew from the leaves to nose along
    the edges of the ponds to smell the fat
    ducks in their bright feathers but
    far out, safe in their rafts of
    sleep. It is like
    music to visit the orchard to find
    the vole sucking the sweet of the apple, or the
    rabbit with his fast–beating heart. Death itself
    is a music. Nobody has ever come close to
    writing it down, awake or in a dream. It cannot
    be told. It is flesh and bones
    changing shape and with good cause, mercy
    is a little child beside such an invention. It is
    music to wander the black back roads
    outside of town no one awake or wondering
    if anything miraculous is ever going to
    happen, totally dumb to the fact of every
    moment’s miracle. Don’t think I haven’t
    peeked into windows. I see you in all your seasons
    making love, arguing, talking about God
    as if he were an idea instead of the grass,
    instead of the stars, the rabbit caught
    in one good teeth–whacking hit and brought
    home to the den. What I am, and I know it, is
    responsible, joyful, thankful. I would not
    give my life for a thousand of yours.

    …Mary Oliver


  424. Hey LOL:

    Here’s Mole’s post, you missed the best part; it bears repeating:

    “I personally know of at least a dozen people who began by denouncing the blog when it first started to gather steam but now are planning to leave FOF in the near future…”

    It’s the change of heart, my dear, that tickles mine. The elevation of spirit, the ascent of being…so many souls being freed from bondage in such a short amount of time HAS to have a positive effect on the force, don’t you think, princess leia?

    Hey, I’ll stick up for you. I don’t mind standing on my toes, it helps prevent shin splints.

    I vote we continue letting anyone be a member of this blog or not, it’s left entirely up to the person to join or leave, stay awhile, take off and come back later… you can come and go as you please.

    Let’s not shun each other anymore, just to see how it feels.


  425. 4170–Steve Lang “It would be useful to maintain some level of identity integrity.”–how about some moral integrity? that would include not lying right?


  426. on June 11, 2007 at 3:56 am Oregon House concerned

    The neighbors are very concerned in Oregon House.
    They are trying to organize a meeting soon.

    My neighbor has two daughters and she is scared.
    she is afraid of all these guys from other countries that are being abused and are taking part in orgies!

    “The sexually abused victim easily becomes the predator.”
    I understand her concern but i dont agree with her…


  427. Whalerider, you are the MAN! I hope the sheik takes note!


  428. on June 11, 2007 at 4:12 am twisted minds unite

    Dear Abby,

    my daughter is very afraid…
    she read the big bad blog…
    Did someone cry “Rape”?

    Concerned in Oregon House….


  429. LOL – please, chill out. It hurts to even read you posts – so much anger and sarcazm. What for?
    You know – Vallium might help, I am serious. Take one, with a glass of wine is even better! It may take the edge off.
    You seem to react with such pain to simple words said by people you may never have met personally… Not worth it, dude! We are supposed to have fun here, remember?
    You are not laughing out loud – you are choking on your own anger. I really feel sorry and wish something can help you, really.
    Much, much love to you.


  430. Oregon House concerned:

    I hope your neighbor knows about this part, too, the guy in charge who’s running the show and doing all that stuff believes he’s the second coming of Christ and above the law.

    That’s what he’s teaching “all those guys from other countries.”


  431. BTW, I love daisies too…

    LOL


  432. Strange No Person-thanks but tell me somethin, why don’t you tell Veronicapoe to chill, or any of the other posts..please explain

    Chillin out loud


  433. 376 Janna
    ‘There have been few thoughts expressed recently to put together something like a Contact list for ex-members and soon-to-be-ex-members.’

    One of the greatest benefits of being in the fellowship of friends was the network of friends throughout the world. I agree with Jana, some form of contacting old friends would greatly improve our community.

    Most of you are probably familiar with some form of social networking. In the US business world its LinkedIn, a network you cannot join, you have to be invited. After joining, people can ask you to connect or you can ask your friends to connect you to someone they have a connection to.

    This does create a trusted space to stay in touch with collegues etc without publishing your contact info to anybody but your chosen friends.

    What would we require of a social network for this group?
    – a private ‘greater fellowship’ network
    – you can only join if invited
    – my email, address and such is only available to friends I approved
    – you can use your blog name to sign up so others will be able to send you a request to connect.

    From my conversations at the North San Juan Party, I believe several people are looking into options of how to connect with each other. I created a test network and looking for some guinea pigs to test it out and validate the above features.

    Send me a note if you have ideas along these lines or send a note if you want to test it out , worldcoop at gmail /dot/ com.
    Jana, i’ll send you an invite to test it.

    All the best ,
    Michael
    1983-95


  434. Hi Sheik of IC:
    Thank you for your selfless efforts to want to continue to support this blog.
    I find it interesting, since you asked what people would like to happen with this blog, reading the suggestions and the posts thereafter.
    Without directly quoting the posts, among them the darlings of the forum, I observed that many of these darlings take swipes at RB, Linda T, etc, although cloaked in “King of Hearts” language, and others, who may or may not still be in the FOF but who simply are not able to go with the flow of the forum (ie posting anything deemed off-topic) and are really displaying the type of behavior they themselves wish to curtail.
    What, (I ask those who recently are into the discussion on conscience) is deemed profane, obscene, hatespeech, inane, off-topic, etc, when you are ALL guilty of bashing those who do not go along with YOUR agenda or YOUR understanding or YOUR dare I say SUBJECTIVE view of thew world?
    For example:
    “She has spent her entire adult life–from her late teens now well into her fifties–under the moral suasion, if you want to call it that, of a profoundly mentally ill individual.”
    (She being Linda T.)
    Is this posting considered acceptable (because the poster have transcended the FOF and are therefore better able to judge those still in) or is this person to be deleated or coerced into revealing their REAL name?
    Or try this:
    “Try this Linda, take a subject of an action that you would call performing ‘feminine dominance’, now, spin this, try and make it into a conscious action, an act of ‘doing’, ‘making an effort’, Robert Burton is an expert at this, spinning poo into uranium. Don’t worry, you can do it, I know you can…”
    Really. Is this a waste ofe bandwidth or what?? No!! Why? Because you are one of the blog darlings. The Inner Circle of the blog.
    You (all of who who need to look up the word BUFFER) have turned the blog into a microcosm of the FOF but your FEATURES do not see this. You think you have gone beyond all that.
    You think you have become somewhat awake. But the reality is that you are still fast asleep in bed, only you have turned onto your back or your side or onto your fat belly, but you are still in the bed. Nnothing has changed.
    A leopard never changes its spots.
    History repeats itself. The costumes have changed, the scenery, the lighting and the choeography, but its the same old tired actor pretending to be someone else.
    Whatever direction the blog takes, I have no opinion. Its been a good diversion for me for my stressed-out life. But I sense that its slowly becoming yet another FOF octave with those who have the most active features trying to swing the masses their way.
    Instead of Rose Garden dinners we now have the Greater Fellowship Transcendents. (Was anyone there swirling their glasses? Yes they were! I was there!!! Hey, Whale, whats up with the beard?).
    Nothing has changed…least of all me.


  435. Exlax–well said.

    LOL–good job!

    No Person! Get a grip on reality!

    Let it all in, or let it all out. See your Self. Be yourself.

    Listen…


  436. on June 11, 2007 at 4:43 am Veronicapoe

    For those interested, “The Greatest Mystery of the Twentieth Century” is now online:

    http://www.archive.org/details/TheEsotericHistoryArchive_603


  437. on June 11, 2007 at 4:48 am Fake Conscience

    Posts

    425
    426
    438

    Were posted by a prankster “conscience” as the moderator can tell from the Ip addresses. Ban that person.


  438. It seems that the trolls are starting to get a bit agitated at the possibility that they would have to identify themselves. Wankers all.


  439. on June 11, 2007 at 4:53 am Oregon House concerned

    What really allowed Robert to do what he is been doing for 3 decades, is the silent complicity of all the men that not only never talked about it (because of shame, ego trips, fear, etc) but also attracted other young men into the “kings bedroom”.

    How about giving the names of those WE KNOW were Robert’s OBJECTS so that everybody knows them?
    Then those that have any doubts and don’t believe about it, can go and ask them their version.

    I will start: Carlos Labbate, Argentinean student that would travel the centers convincing young men to move to the community. Even though he hated being with Robert and having sex with him, he kept enrolling others into the adventure of being close to the teacher.
    Ask him, he will tell you how was it for him.

    If the men speak up, all this sex business ends in few weeks and for ever.

    At this very moment there might be several dozens of men making their plans to move to Isis. More fresh meet for the King!

    What do you think? Any more names?


  440. Hey Oregon House Concerned, eager to “expose” while remaining hidden! Clever? no, just pathetic.

    At least have the guts to list your name, as Ames and Bruce and Richard Moore did, and admit they let themselves be “had” even though it took them 20 years to get over it!


  441. What do you think? Any more names?

    I don’t think so!


  442. Hey LOL, schmuck, don’t assume that you know anything about us and how long it took for anything to occur. And what the hell’s your name coward?


  443. on June 11, 2007 at 5:12 am Oregon House concerned

    to LOL;

    I know our friend Abby is reading the blog my friend.
    I don’t want to deal with him.
    You don’t want to verify what is been said about Robert’s habits. Why don’t you want to find out?
    May be you are one of those that recruited young men for the King’s bedroom and doesn’t want to talk about it?
    What makes you so afraid?
    Remember when there negative emotions, self remembering is the way out. It really works!

    Transform, transform. This is your chance LOL.
    By the way: what’s your name?


  444. Shall we all hold our breath until the panicking trolls identify themselves. I think that would be suicide. Perhaps there’s only one.


  445. Dear Bruce, I believe you are violating the terms of the blog—“Be Civil”–are you? Calling me a troll, a schmuck! Sheik, arrest that man!


  446. on June 11, 2007 at 5:22 am Oregon House concerned

    I am sorry guys but:
    at this moment its 10pm in Oregon House. Robert is provably doing what he does every night surrounded by students-guards that know very well what is going on in his room, the pain machine.
    Pain that will take years or decades to heal if they are lucky.

    How can we stop this feeding of innocent guys? any better idea?


  447. on June 11, 2007 at 5:23 am Fake Conscience

    Bruce, how many people have actually left the FOF lately and why are they going?


  448. I’m calling you both, and to not denigrate the women on the blog I’m withholding a third epithet.


  449. 450 Why would you ask ME that. I have no idea, and I have no idea, and I’m not concerned about either. So what’s your point?


  450. on June 11, 2007 at 5:28 am Fake Conscience

    Bruce, how many people have actually left the FOF lately and why are they going?

    This is the guy that was posting as Conscience earlier today and this is a serious question. I caught that 300 have left at Oregon House, why are they exiting?

    I want to be informed if you have any information.


  451. I have no information, nor am I much interested in the answer. We leave for our own individual reasons.


  452. on June 11, 2007 at 5:30 am for the Best_1

    Sheik,

    Great job!

    I’m with #387 and #391
    “If insulting posts remain anonymous, then just deletion.”

    Aline C.


  453. Yes, Bruce, how about a civilized discussion here?

    No hard feelings, Love and Peace to All, Also to No Person!

    LOL


  454. on June 11, 2007 at 5:32 am Fake Conscience

    Thanks, I meant nothing hostile. I thought you were-are an ex-student and had some information is all.


  455. I am an ex-student, and I have no information, no offense taken.

    LOL…Bite me.


  456. Oregon House concerned, Fake Concisounse,

    what on earth are the guards for?

    To keep the peace? prevent them from escaping?

    what is going on here?


  457. Bruce, no thanks, I hear you like that a little too much!


  458. LOL I do, but you’re missing my point.


  459. on June 11, 2007 at 5:41 am Oregon House concerned

    Don’t tell me you never hear about the armed students that guard the Academy all night? This is going on for years my dear LOL, even before the Fall of California (1998)

    Please, someone help here. Am I crazy?


  460. OK Guys I give up!

    Thanks for the good discussion. Good times!

    Bruce, PEACE brother!

    OHConcerned, I thought the guards were gone since years, hell what do I know, as they say, I just live here!


  461. Peace LOL.


  462. on June 11, 2007 at 6:02 am Simple truth

    Why are you angry if Robert has a very active sexual life?

    the private life is “private”.

    you have your own sexual life. yes or not?

    why Robert can not have his own? like you, or everybody.

    Are you jealous?

    I think that you wish at least the half of this sexual activity in all your life.

    Let the people to live their own private lifes.


  463. Hey exlax 101:

    Remember, you are the whale, I am the WhaleRider, and yes, my beard has been a itchin’ lately.

    Where have you been? Whew, nice post, that must have been a load off your chest. Frankly, it was very apparent to me that you have been using the blog as “a good diversion from your stressed out life”. I could tell from the style of your posts. That’s ok. Sure beats kicking the dog. Thanks for telling the truth.

    I believe any post is acceptable and has value, even yours. You can ‘bash’ or take a ‘swipe’ (as you say) at anyone you want, or all of ‘us’, or not, it’s up to you. I don’t think we are ALL guilty of this or that…sounds like the drink talking, mate. Nobody’s demonizing you, at least I’m not. I get that most everyone here is trying to make sense of a confusing situation by sharing notes.

    Let anyone who feels attacked defend themselves, you don’t have to. I‘d love to have RB on this blog defending himself! Wouldn’t that be something! Actually, I think he should be locked up and part of his sentence would be to have this blog read to him for several hours a day, until this blog ends, which will be a very long time. So keep blogging!

    I personally don’t buy into the ‘I’m more special than or beyond you’ bit. That’s you thinking I am thinking that, and I’m not. Just like Tornado, I had to let go of that when I left the FOF and became un-special. We are all on the same boat here or we wouldn’t need to blog. Even Conscience. Some are predisposed to rock the boat, some not. Collectively, all our voices, even yours, make us an amazing power.

    Anger is a tricky emotion, hard to navigate without identification. You need some of it as a motivator to take action for change. Too much anger can consume your reason, push others who might assist you away, and lead you astray. Not enough anger and you get dumped on until you suffocate.

    If a person doesn’t learn to transform the negativity they read here on this blog (like Beyond, may he RIP), as in life, they eventually shut down, get offended, and leave. I think staying in the ‘game’ is a great way to witness other people’s processes on so many intricate and raw levels and possibly learn something. It’s pretty cool, actually. You CAN change, exlax, if you are open to it. Don’t isolate yourself into ‘you against the blog’, lumping everyone together, that’s the same kind of elitism you left behind in the FOF.

    I wish I was at that meeting when you asked about how to transform negative emotions! Just to see the look on everyone’s face as they shit their pants would have been priceless! I would have cracked up laughing! It reminds me of the meeting when I asked for suggestions about prolonging the third state. The deadpan silence spoke volumes!

    Conscience #438
    “Let it all in, or let it all out. See your Self. Be yourself.”

    Well said.


  464. on June 11, 2007 at 6:04 am Fake Conscience

    Simple truth 465
    Why are you angry if Robert has a very active sexual life?

    the private life is “private”.

    you have your own sexual life. yes or not?

    why Robert can not have his own? like you, or everybody.

    Are you jealous?

    I think that you wish at least the half of this sexual activity in all your life.

    Let the people to live their own private lifes.

    Look at this:

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ArkansasBob/message/5


  465. 465 You clearly either don’t know what you’re talking about or are intentionally missing the point. To reduce it to “a very active sexual life” is either naive or the all time great buffer. I’m sure you’ve heard this before….wake up.


  466. on June 11, 2007 at 6:21 am Simple truth

    Oregon House concerned !OH What a Joke!
    Escuse me, are you one of that “inocent guys”?

    Inocent guys? all adults, but you said “inocent guys”.
    What happens to you?
    Robert ask to you that? and you did not tellhim that you does not wanted? and now you are angry
    All of we have the power of to said “no” when we do not want something.

    Dont tellme that please, “inocent guys” come on.


  467. Oh boy.


  468. on June 11, 2007 at 6:34 am Simple truth

    To Fake Conscience:

    Many people that dont know how to said “no” to an invitation.
    Blame others for their own actions.

    Is as simple, like an invitation, you can said “yes” or “not”, there is no guns or force, only an invitation. and thats all.
    only you are responsible for what you choose.

    Is The Simple Truth.


  469. Most definitely simple.


  470. on June 11, 2007 at 6:39 am Fake Conscience

    Simple truth 471
    To Fake Conscience:

    Many people that dont know how to said “no” to an invitation.
    Blame others for their own actions.

    Is as simple, like an invitation, you can said “yes” or “not”, there is no guns or force, only an invitation. and thats all.
    only you are responsible for what you choose.

    Is The Simple Truth.

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    He was only 17 you fool.


  471. You must have been sent here to straighten us all out. How fortunate.


  472. Fake Conscience….don’t waste your time.


  473. on June 11, 2007 at 6:43 am Oregon House concerned

    These messages are exactly what I am talking about.
    Let’s bring up the names. Lets stop this chain of insanity!

    Who do you know? Who was part of the Robert’s bedroom experiment? They are all victims anyway.

    Lets stop the experiment!

    I don’t care what will happen with Robert. The man is sick and needs treatment. He will provably will go somewhere in Europe and died there.

    I am not thinking about him.
    I am thinking about the boys that keep coming.
    And they are many. How many until the end of this year? 5 more? or perhaps 15 more to come?

    Do you remember when you arrived to Renaissance or Apollo or Isis and you were a young man in your twenties? Do you remember your friends at that age?

    It is not about Robert’s life. It is about their lives.


  474. I think only the people themselves should decide whether to go public or not. It’s not our place to do it for them.


  475. Amen Bruce

    and Simple Truth–if it was this simple, there would not be a 3000+page blog


  476. on June 11, 2007 at 6:52 am Oregon House concerned

    All this happened because of lack of information to be polite.

    Hey Whalerider, help me here:
    If this information was available to you before coming to Renaissance;
    What would you have done?

    How can we make it clear and pristine for the new guys to come to the FOF so that they came make a free choice before they are drunk and in Robert’s bedroom?

    Any other voices out there?


  477. The information is here for anyone. You, personally,can’t rescue anyone. If someone asks your help, that’s one thing. Waving it in someone’s face, basically under duress, is not the way to go in my opinion. Change, if it happens, will have to be more “from the inside”. Outside forces just take little bites out of the larger organism. Although this blog may take larger bites than the usual outside force.


  478. 419 unoanimo

    Are you sure that is the only correction you want to make to that sentence?


  479. on June 11, 2007 at 7:35 am Oregon House concerned

    To Bruce:

    I understand your point Bruce, I need to say this,
    thank you for you patience. Something burns in my guts when I see all the complicity that took place for years for all this slaughter to happen.

    To Simple truth:

    I agree with you that we can say “no” to an invitation, specially if we have some life experience and we are sober my friend.
    When you are in your early twenties and drunk and everyone you trust tells you that it is ok to do it, I don’t know. What do you think?

    Its the same age we send our children to the war. Do you believe that they know what they are doing? Really?

    This is about integrity and values. Its not about defending RB’s case. Or your case.
    We are talking about many young guys that trusted us. I was a center director myself and I feel nauseated when I think of how the young guys in the center were swallowed by the Academy pain machine.

    And to your question:

    No, I was lucky not to live through that experience but after living ten years in Apollo, I saw many guys having it, (as you saw them as well) and is not fun at all. It is very sad game.

    Can you imagine how large the FOF would have been in these days if RB would have heal his addiction and stopped this game years ago?

    10000 people? more? 50000 students?
    What a waste of recourses and energy!


  480. Here’s your Armageddon trumpet call Robert Burton, you were right about one thing, just one year off.

    Fellowship Of Friends-A Cult In Oregon House, California.

    Another lawsuit filed against F.O.F/Renaissance Vineyard &

    Winery, Robert Burton, Girard Haven, Abraham Goldman, Helga

    Ruth Mueller, and Clair Bowen–directors of Fellowship of

    Friends, Inc. The lawsuit brought by Troy Buzbee and filed

    on April 29, 1996 in the County of Yuba.

    Complaint for Damages is in Case # 060209

    1. Fraud

    2. Intentional infliction of emotional distress

    3. Negligent infliction of emotional distress

    4. Breach of fiduciary duty

    5. Negligent supervision

    6. Sexual misconduct with a minor

    7. Sexual harassment

    8. Wrongful discharge

    9. Negligence

    10. Failure to pay minimum wage

    11. Battery

    Fellowship Of Friends Cult – By Michelle M. Milligan

    “Within the pages of the case are facts and details concerning sexual
    and perverted acts practiced by Burton, his philosophies and
    ideologies expected of the members.”

    According to the case, Robert Burton, “The Teacher”, as referred to
    by members, began the corporation Fellowship of Friends in
    1971.

    The “Fourth Way philosophy is taught and practiced by the Fellowship
    of Friends.

    The location of The Fellowship of Friends herein referred to as the
    F.O.F. is in Oregon House, however the F.O.F. refers to their
    location rather as “The Renaissance”.

    Troy Buzbee’s father became a member of the F.O.F. in 1976. Richard
    Buzbee’s son Troy was only seven years of age. Richard Buzbee was
    told that if he paid his teaching payments each month and followed
    the tasks and suggestions of the teacher, Robert Burton that he would
    enter “the way,” become “conscious” and “immortal.” He was told that
    Burton was a “conscious being” and that he was “celibate.” He was
    told that he could trust Burton completely with his body and soul.
    From 1976 through May 1994 Troy’s father was a member of the
    Fellowship of Friends.

    As Plaintiff Troy Buzbee grew up he regarded Robert Burton as a God.
    According to the case distinction between Burton and Troy’s father
    were not clear to him at times. Troy Buzbee became a member on
    October 10, 1966 when he was 17 years of age, virgin.

    After Defendant Burton and Defendant corporation Fellowship Of
    Friends, INC’s factual representations and undue influence caused
    Troy Buzbee to lose his ability to think independently, he became
    increasingly subject to the domination, control and undue influence
    practiced, implemented, and used by said Defendants. In direct
    consequence of such deception, coercive persuasion, brainwashing and
    undue influence, Defendant Burton used Troy Buzbee, among hundreds of
    other young men, for the partial gratification of his satyriasis, an
    uncontrollable compulsion to engage in sexual conduct with scores, if
    not hundreds, of men. In addition thereof, Defendant Burton exploited
    Troy Buzbee for the provision of cheap labor, well under the minimum
    wage. Said exploitation continued off and on until the time when Troy
    Buzbee terminated his membership with Fellowship of Friends, Inc., in
    August 1994.

    Commencing in December 1986, Burton, would have “teaching dinners”
    during which he would ply Troy with alcoholic beverages. After one
    particular such meal in December 1986, Burton instructed Troy to come
    to Burton’s room and to shut and lock the door. Burton told Troy that
    Burton was “an angel in a man’s body”, and the gods wished for Troy
    to be close to Burton. Defendant Burton then held in an embrace.
    Defendant Burton said, “influence C wishes you to be close with
    me. “He repeatedly assured Troy that his “soul was not (his) body,
    and that the angels wished for (Troy) to be with (Burton).” Burton
    explicitly told Troy that the “angels” wanted Troy to disrobe, and
    the “angels” wanted Troy to submit to Burton’s sexual advances
    because Burton himself was an “angel”, a goddess in a man’s body.”

    Burton said to Troy, “I promise you I am an angel in a man’s
    body.” “You have to remember that I did not write the play about
    Robert Burton.” Burton would kiss Troy on the forehead which he said
    represented the seat of the soul and then instruct Troy to “separate”
    from his body and just “let go”. Burton reminded Troy that Troy’s
    body would soon decay while his soul was immortal. Burton told Troy
    that he would talk to him after he died using the same soft voice he
    used at the time. Burton explained that for him the interaction with
    Troy went beyond conventional sex and into “supersex”, which was a
    method characterological evolution. Defendant Burton stated, “My
    sexuality is on the level of Super-Sex.” From December ’86–
    April ’94, Troy submitted to Burton’s demands, which were: Drop out
    of college, provide Burton with sexual favors and provide hour long
    massages after Burton had been sexually serviced.

    Burton used money from the corporation to pay other members for
    performing specific sexual acts. In denominations of $50 or $100. The
    case mentions one case of “specific sexual acts” performed on Burton
    by Karl Feldman, Troy Buzbee’s best friend. Burton spoke openly about
    his sexuality in the form of jokes at the all-male dinners that he
    would often lavishly host at all-male, all-you-can-
    drink “symposiums.” He would boast that “one hundred boys would not
    be enough(for his sexual appetite).”Troy worked at the gatehouse on
    F.O.F. property. Burton directed certain members who are “guards” to
    arm themselves with firearm-type weapons. Burton then had him become
    his “personal” guard. During the next four years Troy observed
    numerous men in Burton’s room in a single night. Troy was asked to
    massage Burton after his lovers left.

    According to the case, Burton suffers from sexually transmitted
    diseases. He made no effort to tell Troy. As a consequence, Troy
    acquired viral herpes. In addition, Troy suffered from stomach
    ulcers. Renaissance Vineyard & Winery, Inc. was built as a bomb-
    shelter in obeisance to Defendant Burton’s prophecies regarding
    massive and wide-spread disaster and chaos in the near future.
    Defendant Burton uses Renaissance Vineyard & Winery, Inc as his alter
    ego in the same way he uses Defendant Fellowship Of Friends, Inc.

    According to the case…..

    At all times mentioned herein Defendants Girard Haven, Abraham
    Goldman (also an attorney), Helga Ruth Mueller, and Clair Bowen were
    members of the board of directors of the Defendant corporation,
    Fellowship Of Friends, INC.

    At all times mentioned herein all of the Defendants were acting as
    the agents and servants of each other and in doing the acts
    complained of acted within the scope of their agency and employment
    and at the direction and with the knowledge and ratification of the
    other Defendants.

    The Defendant Burton at all times mentioned herein, dominated,
    influenced, and controlled, and does now dominate, influence and
    control the Defendant corporations and the directors and officers
    thereof, as well as the business, property and affairs of the
    Defendant corporations.

    At all times mentioned herein, there existed and does now exist, a
    unity of interest and ownership between the Defendant Burton and the
    Defendant corporations; the individuality and separateness of said
    Defendant and Defendant corporations has ceased; and despite
    knowledge of these facts, Defendant corporations and its officers and
    directors have had notice of acquiesced in and agreed, consented to,
    and ratified the conduct of Defendant Burton as herein alleged, At
    all times since its corporation to the present time, the Defendant
    corporations have been and are now a mere shell and naked framework
    which the Defendant Burton has used and does now use as a conduit for
    the conduct of his personal business, property and affairs.

    Defendant corporations are subject to a unity of control, and its
    corporate structure was created as an attempt to avoid payment of
    taxes and civil judgments and to confuse courts and those seeking
    redress for these Defendant’s acts. Due to the unity of personnel,
    commingling of assets, and commonality of business objectives, these
    Defendant’s attempts at separation of Defendant corporations and
    Defendant Burton should be disregarded.

    Defendant Robert Burton directs, controls and operates Defendant
    corporations and uses them to enforce his orders and carry out his
    attacks on groups, agencies or individuals, including the acts
    against Troy alleged herein, to the extent there is no separate
    identity between Burton and said Defendant corporations and any claim
    of such separate identity should be disregarded.

    The Defendant corporations were created and are being continued and
    maintained pursuant to a fraudulent plant, scheme and device, created
    and operated by the Defendant Burton, whereby the benefits and
    product of the income and revenue of the Defendant corporations are
    diverted to the use and enjoyment of the Defendant Burton through the
    Defendant corporations to himself while concealing the truth of his
    financial relationship with Defendant corporations.

    Prior to the formation of F.O.F. and Renaissance Vineyard & Winery,
    Burton formed a conspiracy in concert between the corporations for
    the express purpose and intent of developing and implementing
    a plan and scheme which would permit Burton and co-conspirators to:

    a. use, abuse and exploit the fiduciary relationship between the
    Defendant Burton and the Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends,
    INC,, on one hand and the members of and contributors to the
    Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends, INC,, on the other hand
    for their own personal unlawful gain; and

    b. to use, abuse and exploit the fiduciary relationship between the
    Defendant Burton, as ‘founding minister’, and selective members of
    the Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends, INC., for the
    express purpose and intent of performing unlawful and perverted
    sexual acts upon the persons of said members, including Troy, and by
    causing certain of the members, including Troy, to work for Defendant
    corporation Renaissance Vineyard & Winery, INC., and Defendant
    corporation Fellowship Of Friends, INC.

    That all times pertinent hereto, the Defendant corporation Fellowship
    Of Friends, INC., and the Defendant Renaissance Vineyard and Winery,
    INC, were formed and operated by Burton and said other Defendants for
    their sole and exclusive aggrandizement and to create an ambiance of
    neo-religious import which was and is currently being used by Burton
    and the other Defendants to manipulate, unduly influence, and control
    the minds, bodies, and the assets of the members of the Defendant
    corporations for the sole and exclusive purpose of 1) satisfying
    Burton’s satyriasis-his voracious appetite for perverted sexual
    pleasure and elegant life-style; and 2) diverting the contributions
    and donations of the membership to their own use and purposes.

    Members of the Fellowship are required to donate ever-increasing sums
    of money as they become further and further vested as members of the
    Fellowship with the caveat that when donations required of them are
    not timely and completely made their membership is either revoked or
    they become indentured servants of the Defendant corporation in
    residence at its principal place of business for nominal compensation
    and required to perform degrading menial tasks of a full-time basis
    at the whim and caprice of the Defendant Burton and other authorized
    representatives of the corporate Defendant Fellowship Of Friends,
    INC., and Defendant Renaissance Vineyard And Winery, INC. All
    donations made by members of the Fellowship are devoted either to the
    continuing worldwide recruitment of new and replacement members with
    fresh money to contribute to “the cause,” or the acquisition of
    assets, including but not limited to, Defendant Renaissance Vineyard
    and Winery, INC,, which are ostensibly being acquired for the use and
    benefit of the membership but which are in reality being acquired for
    the personal benefit and aggrandizement of Defendant Burton and some
    or all of the other individual Defendants named herein.

    Meanwhile, Defendant Burton annexes free and unfettered use and
    enjoyment in and to the assets of the Defendant corporation
    Fellowship Of Friends, INC., Defendant corporation Renaissance
    Vineyard And Winery, INC., and the benefits to be derived there from,
    including, but not limited to, the provision money for bribes to
    young male members to prostitute themselves in an intensification of
    Defendant Burton’s compulsion and demand for sexual servicing of his
    long-standing state of satyriasis.

    The entire, purpose, scope and extent of the aforesaid plan and
    scheme as implemented by said Defendants is to effectively deny the
    members of the Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends,
    INC., not only the right to participate in its rituals and teachings
    on an ongoing basis but also, and of equal importance, to deny
    members of said Defendant corporation, including Plaintiff, of their
    just right to participate as beneficiaries entitled to use and enjoy
    the property of said Defendant corporation.

    Troy suffered from fright, horror, grief, shame, anger, humiliation,
    embarrassment, chagrin, disappointment, worry, self-loathing, self-
    betrayal and self distrust.

    Haven, Goldman Mueller, Bowen knew of all these afore-mentioned
    practices of Burton. They have agreed and abetted Burton in his
    efforts. They knew of Burton’s diseases and said nothing.
    At all times pertinent hereto, Defendant Burton, and the other
    Defendants, caused Troy’s mental and emotional centers to become
    deceptively and coercively inculcated with the following tenets:

    a. Defendant Burton communicated with “C-influence” which was
    provided by “44 angels” which were each individually named including,
    but not limited to, Jesus, “Benjamin Franklin,” “Lincoln” and “Bach,”
    and that Burton was the Fellowship’s only connection with
    said “angels.”

    b. Defendant was and is the most important person on the planet since
    Christ. Defendant Burton claims a numerology of consciousness where
    he has already advanced to a man number 7.3, with Christ being a man
    number 8. Burton is above man-made laws, a moral law unto himself.

    c. “C-influence” brought Troy to the Fellowship and Defendant Burton,
    and that Troy’s interactions with Defendant Burton would be the most
    important relationship that Troy could ever have.

    d. Defendant Burton is assisted by “C-influence” to guide the
    spiritual evolution of the member “students” with “shocks” designed
    to help them “awaken”.

    e. The members of the Fellowship are special, and set apart by higher
    forces for survival. Members of Defendant Burton’s “inner circle”
    must associate only among Fellowship members must disregard non-
    members, and demonize ex-members who are critical of Burton whom “the
    gods” will “destroy.” Such ex-members’ opportunities for growth and
    development are terminated failing to submit to Burton.

    f. Defendant Burton possesses gift of prophecy that is infallible.

    g. In 1998 California will “fall” in huge earthquake whereupon people
    will die in massive numbers.

    h. In 2006 there will be an Armageddon, where all humans everywhere
    except for members of the Fellowship will be expunged by higher
    forces.

    i. Members of the Fellowship will inherit the world’s material goods
    and act as the “Ark” for a new civilization based on that of the
    Greeks of about 450 B.C., and are thus presently preparing themselves
    to bear the torch of civilization now and in the future.

    j. By following Defendant Burton’s directives so as to gain “being”
    (depth of character) through separating from suffering and immersing
    themselves in culture, mostly Western art, classical music, opera and
    ballet, Fellowship members, including Troy, are preparing themselves
    for being the “Ark”.

    k. Everything the members of the Fellowship, including Troy, had
    learned since birth was “false” and caused him to exist in a kind
    of “waking sleep.” The Defendant Burton informed Troy that in order
    to “awaken”, he had to replace what was “false” with what was “true”
    which was defined as the system of ideas as The Fourth Way, including
    all the “new” knowledge that Burton had added to that system.

    l. Defendant Burton stated, and states, to the general Fellowship and
    to Troy, that without “C-influence” Troy could not “awaken”.

    m. Defendant Burton stated, and states, to the general Fellowship and
    to Troy, that to “awaken” was the only way to avoid having the
    purpose of his life be to provide “food for the moon.”

    n. Defendant Burton stated, and states, that Troy’s people outside
    the group as “life-people,” he said were “tragedies.” Burton said
    Troy’s own mother was such a “life-person” and that the Fellowship
    was Troy’s “real” family and Burton was his “Father.”

    o. Defendant Burton stated, and states, to the general Fellowship and
    to Troy, that any challenge to the extent of Burton’s excesses of
    greed and satyriasis to be a lack of understanding of his practice
    of “crazy wisdom” which he asserts that he must force himself to
    perform is forcing himself to live that way for the good of the
    members as a “lesson.”

    Wish to read the rest and complete story, and even proof?

    Send a self addressed long envelope, stamped to:

    Of, By & For The People Newspaper

    P.O. Box 1993

    Marysville, California 95901


  481. Fellowship Of Friends-A Cult In Oregon House, California.

    Another lawsuit filed against F.O.F/Renaissance Vineyard &

    Winery, Robert Burton, Girard Haven, Abraham Goldman, Helga

    Ruth Mueller, and Clair Bowen–directors of Fellowship of

    Friends, Inc. The lawsuit brought by Troy Buzbee and filed

    on April 29, 1996 in the County of Yuba.

    Complaint for Damages is in Case # 060209

    1. Fraud

    2. Intentional infliction of emotional distress

    3. Negligent infliction of emotional distress

    4. Breach of fiduciary duty

    5. Negligent supervision

    6. Sexual misconduct with a minor

    7. Sexual harassment

    8. Wrongful discharge

    9. Negligence

    10. Failure to pay minimum wage

    11. Battery

    Fellowship Of Friends Cult – By Michelle M. Milligan

    “Within the pages of the case are facts and details concerning sexual
    and perverted acts practiced by Burton, his philosophies and
    ideologies expected of the members.”

    According to the case, Robert Burton, “The Teacher”, as referred to
    by members, began the corporation Fellowship of Friends in
    1971.

    The “Fourth Way philosophy is taught and practiced by the Fellowship
    of Friends.

    The location of The Fellowship of Friends herein referred to as the
    F.O.F. is in Oregon House, however the F.O.F. refers to their
    location rather as “The Renaissance”.

    Troy Buzbee’s father became a member of the F.O.F. in 1976. Richard
    Buzbee’s son Troy was only seven years of age. Richard Buzbee was
    told that if he paid his teaching payments each month and followed
    the tasks and suggestions of the teacher, Robert Burton that he would
    enter “the way,” become “conscious” and “immortal.” He was told that
    Burton was a “conscious being” and that he was “celibate.” He was
    told that he could trust Burton completely with his body and soul.
    From 1976 through May 1994 Troy’s father was a member of the
    Fellowship of Friends.

    As Plaintiff Troy Buzbee grew up he regarded Robert Burton as a God.
    According to the case distinction between Burton and Troy’s father
    were not clear to him at times. Troy Buzbee became a member on
    October 10, 1966 when he was 17 years of age, virgin.

    After Defendant Burton and Defendant corporation Fellowship Of
    Friends, INC’s factual representations and undue influence caused
    Troy Buzbee to lose his ability to think independently, he became
    increasingly subject to the domination, control and undue influence
    practiced, implemented, and used by said Defendants. In direct
    consequence of such deception, coercive persuasion, brainwashing and
    undue influence, Defendant Burton used Troy Buzbee, among hundreds of
    other young men, for the partial gratification of his satyriasis, an
    uncontrollable compulsion to engage in sexual conduct with scores, if
    not hundreds, of men. In addition thereof, Defendant Burton exploited
    Troy Buzbee for the provision of cheap labor, well under the minimum
    wage. Said exploitation continued off and on until the time when Troy
    Buzbee terminated his membership with Fellowship of Friends, Inc., in
    August 1994.

    Commencing in December 1986, Burton, would have “teaching dinners”
    during which he would ply Troy with alcoholic beverages. After one
    particular such meal in December 1986, Burton instructed Troy to come
    to Burton’s room and to shut and lock the door. Burton told Troy that
    Burton was “an angel in a man’s body”, and the gods wished for Troy
    to be close to Burton. Defendant Burton then held in an embrace.
    Defendant Burton said, “influence C wishes you to be close with
    me. “He repeatedly assured Troy that his “soul was not (his) body,
    and that the angels wished for (Troy) to be with (Burton).” Burton
    explicitly told Troy that the “angels” wanted Troy to disrobe, and
    the “angels” wanted Troy to submit to Burton’s sexual advances
    because Burton himself was an “angel”, a goddess in a man’s body.”

    Burton said to Troy, “I promise you I am an angel in a man’s
    body.” “You have to remember that I did not write the play about
    Robert Burton.” Burton would kiss Troy on the forehead which he said
    represented the seat of the soul and then instruct Troy to “separate”
    from his body and just “let go”. Burton reminded Troy that Troy’s
    body would soon decay while his soul was immortal. Burton told Troy
    that he would talk to him after he died using the same soft voice he
    used at the time. Burton explained that for him the interaction with
    Troy went beyond conventional sex and into “supersex”, which was a
    method characterological evolution. Defendant Burton stated, “My
    sexuality is on the level of Super-Sex.” From December ’86–
    April ’94, Troy submitted to Burton’s demands, which were: Drop out
    of college, provide Burton with sexual favors and provide hour long
    massages after Burton had been sexually serviced.

    Burton used money from the corporation to pay other members for
    performing specific sexual acts. In denominations of $50 or $100. The
    case mentions one case of “specific sexual acts” performed on Burton
    by Karl Feldman, Troy Buzbee’s best friend. Burton spoke openly about
    his sexuality in the form of jokes at the all-male dinners that he
    would often lavishly host at all-male, all-you-can-
    drink “symposiums.” He would boast that “one hundred boys would not
    be enough(for his sexual appetite).”Troy worked at the gatehouse on
    F.O.F. property. Burton directed certain members who are “guards” to
    arm themselves with firearm-type weapons. Burton then had him become
    his “personal” guard. During the next four years Troy observed
    numerous men in Burton’s room in a single night. Troy was asked to
    massage Burton after his lovers left.

    According to the case, Burton suffers from sexually transmitted
    diseases. He made no effort to tell Troy. As a consequence, Troy
    acquired viral herpes. In addition, Troy suffered from stomach
    ulcers. Renaissance Vineyard & Winery, Inc. was built as a bomb-
    shelter in obeisance to Defendant Burton’s prophecies regarding
    massive and wide-spread disaster and chaos in the near future.
    Defendant Burton uses Renaissance Vineyard & Winery, Inc as his alter
    ego in the same way he uses Defendant Fellowship Of Friends, Inc.

    According to the case…..

    At all times mentioned herein Defendants Girard Haven, Abraham
    Goldman (also an attorney), Helga Ruth Mueller, and Clair Bowen were
    members of the board of directors of the Defendant corporation,
    Fellowship Of Friends, INC.

    At all times mentioned herein all of the Defendants were acting as
    the agents and servants of each other and in doing the acts
    complained of acted within the scope of their agency and employment
    and at the direction and with the knowledge and ratification of the
    other Defendants.

    The Defendant Burton at all times mentioned herein, dominated,
    influenced, and controlled, and does now dominate, influence and
    control the Defendant corporations and the directors and officers
    thereof, as well as the business, property and affairs of the
    Defendant corporations.

    At all times mentioned herein, there existed and does now exist, a
    unity of interest and ownership between the Defendant Burton and the
    Defendant corporations; the individuality and separateness of said
    Defendant and Defendant corporations has ceased; and despite
    knowledge of these facts, Defendant corporations and its officers and
    directors have had notice of acquiesced in and agreed, consented to,
    and ratified the conduct of Defendant Burton as herein alleged, At
    all times since its corporation to the present time, the Defendant
    corporations have been and are now a mere shell and naked framework
    which the Defendant Burton has used and does now use as a conduit for
    the conduct of his personal business, property and affairs.

    Defendant corporations are subject to a unity of control, and its
    corporate structure was created as an attempt to avoid payment of
    taxes and civil judgments and to confuse courts and those seeking
    redress for these Defendant’s acts. Due to the unity of personnel,
    commingling of assets, and commonality of business objectives, these
    Defendant’s attempts at separation of Defendant corporations and
    Defendant Burton should be disregarded.

    Defendant Robert Burton directs, controls and operates Defendant
    corporations and uses them to enforce his orders and carry out his
    attacks on groups, agencies or individuals, including the acts
    against Troy alleged herein, to the extent there is no separate
    identity between Burton and said Defendant corporations and any claim
    of such separate identity should be disregarded.

    The Defendant corporations were created and are being continued and
    maintained pursuant to a fraudulent plant, scheme and device, created
    and operated by the Defendant Burton, whereby the benefits and
    product of the income and revenue of the Defendant corporations are
    diverted to the use and enjoyment of the Defendant Burton through the
    Defendant corporations to himself while concealing the truth of his
    financial relationship with Defendant corporations.

    Prior to the formation of F.O.F. and Renaissance Vineyard & Winery,
    Burton formed a conspiracy in concert between the corporations for
    the express purpose and intent of developing and implementing
    a plan and scheme which would permit Burton and co-conspirators to:

    a. use, abuse and exploit the fiduciary relationship between the
    Defendant Burton and the Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends,
    INC,, on one hand and the members of and contributors to the
    Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends, INC,, on the other hand
    for their own personal unlawful gain; and

    b. to use, abuse and exploit the fiduciary relationship between the
    Defendant Burton, as ‘founding minister’, and selective members of
    the Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends, INC., for the
    express purpose and intent of performing unlawful and perverted
    sexual acts upon the persons of said members, including Troy, and by
    causing certain of the members, including Troy, to work for Defendant
    corporation Renaissance Vineyard & Winery, INC., and Defendant
    corporation Fellowship Of Friends, INC.

    That all times pertinent hereto, the Defendant corporation Fellowship
    Of Friends, INC., and the Defendant Renaissance Vineyard and Winery,
    INC, were formed and operated by Burton and said other Defendants for
    their sole and exclusive aggrandizement and to create an ambiance of
    neo-religious import which was and is currently being used by Burton
    and the other Defendants to manipulate, unduly influence, and control
    the minds, bodies, and the assets of the members of the Defendant
    corporations for the sole and exclusive purpose of 1) satisfying
    Burton’s satyriasis-his voracious appetite for perverted sexual
    pleasure and elegant life-style; and 2) diverting the contributions
    and donations of the membership to their own use and purposes.

    Members of the Fellowship are required to donate ever-increasing sums
    of money as they become further and further vested as members of the
    Fellowship with the caveat that when donations required of them are
    not timely and completely made their membership is either revoked or
    they become indentured servants of the Defendant corporation in
    residence at its principal place of business for nominal compensation
    and required to perform degrading menial tasks of a full-time basis
    at the whim and caprice of the Defendant Burton and other authorized
    representatives of the corporate Defendant Fellowship Of Friends,
    INC., and Defendant Renaissance Vineyard And Winery, INC. All
    donations made by members of the Fellowship are devoted either to the
    continuing worldwide recruitment of new and replacement members with
    fresh money to contribute to “the cause,” or the acquisition of
    assets, including but not limited to, Defendant Renaissance Vineyard
    and Winery, INC,, which are ostensibly being acquired for the use and
    benefit of the membership but which are in reality being acquired for
    the personal benefit and aggrandizement of Defendant Burton and some
    or all of the other individual Defendants named herein.

    Meanwhile, Defendant Burton annexes free and unfettered use and
    enjoyment in and to the assets of the Defendant corporation
    Fellowship Of Friends, INC., Defendant corporation Renaissance
    Vineyard And Winery, INC., and the benefits to be derived there from,
    including, but not limited to, the provision money for bribes to
    young male members to prostitute themselves in an intensification of
    Defendant Burton’s compulsion and demand for sexual servicing of his
    long-standing state of satyriasis.

    The entire, purpose, scope and extent of the aforesaid plan and
    scheme as implemented by said Defendants is to effectively deny the
    members of the Defendant corporation Fellowship Of Friends,
    INC., not only the right to participate in its rituals and teachings
    on an ongoing basis but also, and of equal importance, to deny
    members of said Defendant corporation, including Plaintiff, of their
    just right to participate as beneficiaries entitled to use and enjoy
    the property of said Defendant corporation.

    Troy suffered from fright, horror, grief, shame, anger, humiliation,
    embarrassment, chagrin, disappointment, worry, self-loathing, self-
    betrayal and self distrust.

    Haven, Goldman Mueller, Bowen knew of all these afore-mentioned
    practices of Burton. They have agreed and abetted Burton in his
    efforts. They knew of Burton’s diseases and said nothing.
    At all times pertinent hereto, Defendant Burton, and the other
    Defendants, caused Troy’s mental and emotional centers to become
    deceptively and coercively inculcated with the following tenets:

    a. Defendant Burton communicated with “C-influence” which was
    provided by “44 angels” which were each individually named including,
    but not limited to, Jesus, “Benjamin Franklin,” “Lincoln” and “Bach,”
    and that Burton was the Fellowship’s only connection with
    said “angels.”

    b. Defendant was and is the most important person on the planet since
    Christ. Defendant Burton claims a numerology of consciousness where
    he has already advanced to a man number 7.3, with Christ being a man
    number 8. Burton is above man-made laws, a moral law unto himself.

    c. “C-influence” brought Troy to the Fellowship and Defendant Burton,
    and that Troy’s interactions with Defendant Burton would be the most
    important relationship that Troy could ever have.

    d. Defendant Burton is assisted by “C-influence” to guide the
    spiritual evolution of the member “students” with “shocks” designed
    to help them “awaken”.

    e. The members of the Fellowship are special, and set apart by higher
    forces for survival. Members of Defendant Burton’s “inner circle”
    must associate only among Fellowship members must disregard non-
    members, and demonize ex-members who are critical of Burton whom “the
    gods” will “destroy.” Such ex-members’ opportunities for growth and
    development are terminated failing to submit to Burton.

    f. Defendant Burton possesses gift of prophecy that is infallible.

    g. In 1998 California will “fall” in huge earthquake whereupon people
    will die in massive numbers.

    h. In 2006 there will be an Armageddon, where all humans everywhere
    except for members of the Fellowship will be expunged by higher
    forces.

    i. Members of the Fellowship will inherit the world’s material goods
    and act as the “Ark” for a new civilization based on that of the
    Greeks of about 450 B.C., and are thus presently preparing themselves
    to bear the torch of civilization now and in the future.

    j. By following Defendant Burton’s directives so as to gain “being”
    (depth of character) through separating from suffering and immersing
    themselves in culture, mostly Western art, classical music, opera and
    ballet, Fellowship members, including Troy, are preparing themselves
    for being the “Ark”.

    k. Everything the members of the Fellowship, including Troy, had
    learned since birth was “false” and caused him to exist in a kind
    of “waking sleep.” The Defendant Burton informed Troy that in order
    to “awaken”, he had to replace what was “false” with what was “true”
    which was defined as the system of ideas as The Fourth Way, including
    all the “new” knowledge that Burton had added to that system.

    l. Defendant Burton stated, and states, to the general Fellowship and
    to Troy, that without “C-influence” Troy could not “awaken”.

    m. Defendant Burton stated, and states, to the general Fellowship and
    to Troy, that to “awaken” was the only way to avoid having the
    purpose of his life be to provide “food for the moon.”

    n. Defendant Burton stated, and states, that Troy’s people outside
    the group as “life-people,” he said were “tragedies.” Burton said
    Troy’s own mother was such a “life-person” and that the Fellowship
    was Troy’s “real” family and Burton was his “Father.”

    o. Defendant Burton stated, and states, to the general Fellowship and
    to Troy, that any challenge to the extent of Burton’s excesses of
    greed and satyriasis to be a lack of understanding of his practice
    of “crazy wisdom” which he asserts that he must force himself to
    perform is forcing himself to live that way for the good of the
    members as a “lesson.”

    Wish to read the rest and complete story, and even proof?

    Send a self addressed long envelope, stamped to:

    Of, By & For The People Newspaper

    P.O. Box 1993

    Marysville, California 95901


  482. after all this words, I’d like to suggest one more post-fellowship rock anthem. It’s from a band called Arcade Fire (even this name is a good metaphor, don’t you think?)

    Wake up

    Somethin’ filled up
    my heart with nothin’,
    someone told me not to cry.

    But now that I’m older,
    my heart’s colder,
    and I can see that it’s a lie.

    Children wake up,
    hold your mistake up,
    before they turn the summer into dust.

    If the children don’t grow up,
    our bodies get bigger but our hearts get torn up.
    We’re just a million little god’s causin rain storms turnin’ every good thing to rust.

    I guess we’ll just have to adjust.

    With my lighnin’ bolts a glowin’
    I can see where I am goin’ to be
    when the reaper he reaches and touches my hand.

    With my lighnin’ bolts a glowin’
    I can see where I am goin’
    With my lighnin’ bolts a glowin’
    I can see where I am go-goin’

    You better look out below!


  483. Good Morning Renald, here goes,
    thank you again…

    In Reply to Post #412/11

    You wrote ~

    “Would you say that being crystallized might be very similar to being addicted to a concept, belief, or even thought, sensation, or emotion and not be aware of being addicted?”
    ____________________

    Hummm… Nope, being crystallized is not similar to addiction, although addiction certainly is one of the ingredients in the overall crystallized ‘stew’.

    Think of crystallization as ‘an event’, not a condition that
    gets worse or better depending on external stimuli, its much more, let’s say, under the carpet, than the obvious ‘effects’ of the crystallization ’cause’.

    A ’cause’ for what?
    This is a book that someone could write.
    Title ~ The Phenomenon of being stuck on You, a comparative analysis of the habitual nature within mankind to semi-automatically follow the corresponding laws of the solar system he is situated in, without his personal permission since he cannot recall ever having said ‘yes’ to said following.

    For instance, you might hear someone say, “I have always hated the Bee Gees.” In that statement, is a utility that allows the word ‘always’ to possess one’s inner world, making one’s very expansive, possible ‘galactic self’ into a ‘little me’, that is due to the band of crystallization…

    It’s a big subject and a phenomenon I’ve been fooling around with for a long time, since my childhood days I could discern people were ‘stuck’, then would make it a project to meet them, experience it through their eye contact and stories… Amazing experiences, particularly with homeless people and millionaires, both equally wide open, on opposite ends of the crystallization extreme, to the person wishing to see and not judge, ever.

    So, addictions support the growth of the crystals, yet they are not the crystals. To get closer to the crystals themselves you will need to put on those kind of boots that only DieHard Fishermen use, those ones that go all the way up to your belt line, ‘waders’, I believe they’re called.

    As I see it, the major players in crystalization are ~

    Trauma (damaged essence), Painbody resident (or Caretaker of Kundabuffer), Hereditary, Cultural Programming, Features, Center of Gravity, hormones/glands having their buttons constantly pushed in habitual, consistent, not missing a beat by celestial influences (planets, astrology details & events, etc.) without the overall world population knowing anything about it.
    ______________________________

    You wrote, quoting what I wrote, so that you then asked ~

    “BTW ~ Conscience cannot crystallize, good news yes? Level of consciousness, yes, though I do not sense that either of the two have crystallized in you prematurely.
    Toleration and expansion are two of your great indicators of this,” ~ wrote unoanimo

    Renald wrote ~

    “For my personal interest, could you please rate the following emotions on a scale of 1-4 with 1 being better feeling down to 4 being worst feeling or more negative?
    boredom, doubt, toleration,pessimism
    _________________________

    Here’s how I would sense them 1-4, by degree of painbody expulsion and desire for ‘reciprocal echo’ from said pain-target’s response, which imbues that ‘shooter’ with more pain-food ~

    1. boredom
    2. toleration
    3. doubt
    4. pessimism
    __________________________

    You wrote ~

    “Could you also compare being asleep to lack of conscience relatively speaking? All comments appreciated on all of the above questions…”
    __________________

    It depends on your definition of Conscience, that is, what exactly do you do with yours, how do you move with it?

    Often conscience can manifest through being deeply sure of oneself for oneself, this can also be a feature having just had ‘the meal of its life’, thus far…

    Being in proximity to one’s maximum attraction can seem like the right thing to do, yet, there’s stuff going on that sways you to feel such a way… So, its a tricky area.

    “…compare being asleep to lack of conscience..”

    That’s a good one, yet, it cannot be done, here’s how that is…

    Comparison implies that one knows another’s level of being within the relative context to ‘right now’ in context to a certain subject that he or she is experiencing with or without a connection with ‘conscience’, the depth one goes and the depth one shows are two very different pictures.

    They cannot be compared for many reasons, another being
    that conscience is an objective ‘organ’, while being asleep is a subjective, unpredictable ‘stew’ of ups and downs along any given days set of circumstances.

    So, while it can for sure be predicted what an ex-convict ‘feels’, not ‘thinks’, about a father of 4 using food stamps to buy drugs, I cannot predict the amount of time it will take for him to arrive at the ‘aha’.

    Certainly you can say that while asleep, the connection to conscience is at best ‘sympathetic’; even if I am in deep first state (asleep, asleep), if I hear a scream, a thud, a crackling, a cat hiss, I’m ready to roll, fully alert, big ‘S’ on chest, the whole works, it’s the hormone thing and my deeply rooted insatiable love affair with accidental adventure.

    Yes, Renald, you can say that when you’re (asleep) you do have a ‘certain’ lack of conscience, though not total shut-down, regardless of one’s state of consciousness, some call it ‘common sense’, they even have it in Law as something to the effect of ~ a common sense of duty to aid the injured; hit and run for instance… It may have been an accident, you won’t go to earth-jail for that, yet, if you run away from the common sense of duty, you’ll find yourself wearing an orange jumper suit with a number that’s not your shirt size.
    ____________________________

    Nice questions, I like… Thank you.

    Is there such a thing as a ‘someone’ with no conscience,
    yes, but these are not human beings, so that’s another
    conversation altogether… Take a peek at the rhymes and
    reasons of the sorts like T. Bundy, C. Manson, the ‘iceman’, the Columbine duo, etc., the subject of conscience is not even in these beings ‘triad’.

    __________________________________

    Love to you all.

    ____________________________


  484. Thanks to all the interesting posts but especially to 439 Veronicapoe for posting Robert’s quote on “The Greatest Mystery of the Twentieth Century”: it’s priceless. Reading those sorts of claims used to made me feel uneasy during my time as a student. Now I can really appreciate how ridicolous and mad they are. Thanks for reminding us! I still peruse the Gurdjieff and Ouspenski books at times, but everytime I looked for substantial angles in Robert’s book I found it full of useless and pretentious nonsense.


  485. Hello Everyone!
    Some people have been discussing having a web site where they can contact other students and ex students around the world, that being one of the things which one might miss if one left the pseudo school. There is such a service allready run by Martin from Berlin its called WWW. Fourth Way Info. Its the one with a map of the world which one can place ones location on. He is also the person who suggested to the Sheik to install a paypal button in order to reimburse him a little for his time and ensure the continuance of this platform. So I think he deserves thanks. He hasnt posted in a while perhaps he felt as “G” said “pecked to death”. You can either search under the above name or try the link below.

    http://www.fourthway.info/

    RUMI – We Are Three
    translated by Coleman Barks.

    Recognize that your imagination and your thinking
    and your sense-perception are reed canes
    that children cut and pretend are horsies.

    The Knowing of mystic Lovers is different.
    The empirical, sensory, sciences
    are like a donkey loaded with books,
    or like the makeup woman’s makeup.
    It washes off.

    But if you lift the baggage rightly, it will give you joy.
    Don’t carry your knowledge-load for some selfish reason.
    Deny your desires and willfulness,
    and a real mount may appear under you.

    Don’t be satisfied with the name of HU,
    with just words about it.

    Experience That Drunkenness.
    From books and words come fantasy,
    and sometimes, from fantasy
    comes UNION.

    sorry but Rumi Rocks. Best Wishes Cyclops.
    ____________


  486. Smells like

    LOL = Sure Thing! = Cry Baby

    A rose by any other name….


  487. Thanks to Unoanimo for 483. It seems we need to be continually reminded about the facts concerning the activities of Robert Burton. To me, the most surprising aspect of this blog is that people like LOL can continue in the face of overwhelming evidence to believe that the posts that criticise Burton are “lying”. The self-hypnotising aspects of the Fellowship of Friends are nowhere more clearly revealed. However, it does seem that in some cases as the blog hammers the evidence home the hypnotism starts to break down. Let’s keep going – no need to be afraid of repetition.


  488. to Unoanimo post 483:

    and what was the outcome of this lawsuit? Wikepedia says it “one suit was dismissed and two others were settled by the organization’s insurance companies to save the costs of litigation.” T. (The FOF president) also added that “the suits were filed by former members who failed to produce evidence to support their accusations.”
    If it is ALL true, why is there not more evidence or turmoil. For sure someone (Influence C ?) is protecting Robert. Since my guide is Influence C I go with them. So far they have allowed Robert to be the way he is. You could argue this viewpoint is the result of the FOF indoctrination, but it comes straight from Gurdjieff: Man cannot do, everything happens. Of course one has to give doing a try and then accept the result. some of you try to do by writing here and we will see what happens.

    sincerily thankfull


  489. on June 11, 2007 at 4:51 pm Ames Gilbert

    To LOL (#11-355, 424 and many others)
    Like it or not, to many you represent the Fellowship of Friends. I have no idea if you are doing this as part of what you conceive to be third line work (advancing the aims of the school and the teacher), or if it is just a convenient place to vent off the pressures of your life (your implication). I suppose it is possible that you are officially here as part of a plan to try to disrupt the blog. But, as I said, you are seen as a representative of the FoF, as one aspect of its being, and I have to point out that you are not doing a good job as ambassador.

    You burst in on the scene a couple of pages ago (in your incarnation as LOL, at least) in a flurry of activity and negativity. I read your words and see a lot of thoughts about injustice, bias, and lying. I’m sure there are aspects of those here, and yet if that was all there were, your own experience should tell you that the blog would have died long before this. When you talk about the Inner Circle of the Blog, I wonder what you mean. By it’s very nature, a blog is disorganized, even if it built around a theme. The only way to have an inner circle, or favorites, is to have an organization, or a vote. So, you must be measuring frequency of posts, in which case you certainly qualify for the “Inner Circle”; you’re welcome to that lofty space, watch out for altitude sickness!

    You are pretty keen on the old fart theme, and show that you know something about the past history of the FoF. So it seems possible that you are either an old fart yourself, or joined so young that you have both the first–hand historical view but are not yet old enough to be an old fart. You are obviously in a position where you have either been given permission or feel self-important enough to give yourself permission to attend the festivities. Maybe you are Linda T. herself? She is the only one who can tell us about her inner state without (maybe) lying, and you claim to know it.

    Well, we voted to include your views and others like them, and you are keeping on as one of the most frequent contributors. That says something about us, and something about you. Although of course we know you do not represent the whole Fellowship, just as some of your targets on the blog do not represent the whole blog community, one way or another you are giving us a glimpse behind the scenes. So, thank you!

    To Simple Truth (#11-465)
    Burton is not a private person with a private life. He is a very public person (at least in the large fish in a small pond scale of things), and invites public scrutiny, not least because he has set himself up as an example and guide. Since the FoF is the form, the vessel being built by students, and he is supposed to fill it, it matters a great deal what he fills it with. There cannot be too much light shed on every aspect of his being. That he operates mostly behind closed doors implies much about his being, and of course leads to some guesswork. That’s the simple truth.

    To Unoanimo (#11-483)
    Have you ever met Michelle Milligan, her paramour “Reverend” Heinz, or any of the others in the Olivehurst Gospel Assembly? I had quite a lot of contact with them (unfortunately, I was a neighbor to their property), and still see them around in Oroville. Now, there are some pain bodies to study! Michelle did copy the court documents accurately, but I wouldn’t put much trust in the rest of her articles!

    With love to you all, ‘in’ and ‘out’,
    Ames


  490. on June 11, 2007 at 5:09 pm You-me-us-they

    To Simple truth, post 465:

    “Why are you angry if Robert has a very active sexual life?”
    or
    “Let the people to live their own private lifes.”

    Let’s presume you are a father and your son is 18 years old.
    Let’s presume you are in the fof 30 and + years.
    Let’s presume you were/are high up on the FOF star system.
    Let’s presume you were among the lovers yourself.
    Let’s presume your son has been invited to ‘help’ washing dishes (!) at the Galleria.

    Halleluyah? Gloria?
    Nooooooooooooo…
    He is so young and so much in need for attention!

    You find yourself not only averting/warning him
    (letting him know what, from experience, you know about
    beloved Robert Burton, the Teacher)
    but prohibiting him to accept.

    Let’s presume the “Let’s presume” are rhetorical
    and that it is happening!

    Difficult times… When what was “good” for you
    turns to be so “bad” for your child that you can’t even trust him or the “play” (Conscious Influences)…
    Don’t you think ?

    How can you even formulate such a comment and believe in it enough to post it?
    How can you post such a comment ?

    Maybe, in another post, I might follow through with the balancing hypothesis (the “Let’s presume!).
    We would have a mother and her daughter.
    Halleluyah! Gloria!
    To be the mother of the eligible one going to marry one of the boys! Green card strategy? Who cares?
    Gold dust falling all over!
    May the ceremony take place in Egypt!

    But I will do it only if you insist because, to be honnest,
    it is a bit too painful.
    Actually, can you sense I am not going to do it anyway?

    ———————————-

    To Unoanimo,
    To me, you are as limpid as you are obscur.
    To read your post is, at times, like being in a dream…
    You don’t get it all but it is impossible to deny that “something” is happening!
    Lost in Heaven?

    Gratitude.


  491. on June 11, 2007 at 5:15 pm Veronicapoe

    For those interested, “Note from the period of silence, 1971-1972” is now online:

    http://www.archive.org/details/TheEsotericHistoryArchive_782


  492. It’s as simple as that: STOP FEEDING HIM!!

    If you’ll stop on nourishing his greed, his ego , his vanity, his appetites, he will loose his power on you/us/them..

    -Stop paying for events…you have to remember that the money is turned inevitably into sperm, expensive vibrators and Armani suits anyway, and that the “teaching” is a FARSE, it’s a sad joke played on your soul and your miserable postponed checks;
    (And by the way, if you are already paying the “teaching payments”, why do you think that you have to pay again for the “teaching events”?)

    -Stop smiling and worshipping this horny goat… keep at least a little shred of your dignity, you’ll need it to improve the rest of your life;

    -Stop granting him sexual favors… std’s are not fun, old faggots are not that appealing, specially dressed in bright pink silk, and your women & your children & even yourself will be much more impressed with you if you’ll be a MAN and have the guts to say “NO”;

    -No more money, no more flattery, no more sex…
    is there going to be any real “teacher” left ???

    Can R. survive without luxuries, pampering and sperm?

    Especially if you believe that the answer is YES, why don’t you give it a try ?

    M.


  493. on June 11, 2007 at 5:23 pm Ames Gilbert

    To student (#11-490)
    You should be asking this question. Why does the Fellowship of Friends always settle out of court? Why does Abraham Goldman always insist on sealed agreements if FoF is in the right? You could answer the first question with, “To save money”, but what does it matter if the insurance pays the bills? That is what legal insurance is for. And if the claims are sufficiently spurious, in other words, malicious and unfounded, actually the FoF and their insurance company would probably be able to get their costs back in a counter-suit. Why did that not happen?

    The Samuel Sanders case and the Troy Buzbee case were settled out of court. The agreements were sealed (a gross miscarriage of justice in my opinion, since I think that justice is better served in the light, not the back room). If the FoF were proud of it’s record, as revealed by witnesses while the case was being set up (pre-trial motions, discovery, subpoenas, sworn statements, and so on), then why not be open? Have you considered that Linda T. may be lying, when she says “the suits were filed by former members who failed to produce evidence to support their accusations”. Maybe she is technically right—if the case did not go to trial. I don’t know how far it went before the settlements ended things. But if the settlements were pre–trial, she is merely using verbal sleight of hand, a form of lie.

    Hey, maybe “Influence-C” really is protecting Burton. If you believe that, then this blog has no importance whatsoever; in fact, my disinterested advice is to stay away, out of the range of the lightning bolt. Let Influence-C take care of business, it doesn’t need your help, or Goldman’s for that matter. None of you, including Burton, have the trust to match your stated beliefs. Finally, you may not be able to do, but nothing stops you nosing about and finding out things for yourself, does it?

    Good luck to you on your way!
    Ames


  494. Dear student 490.
    What exactly in your mind would constitute evidence?
    There is no smoking gun, just the testimony of many sincere seekers some of who write here for the same reason I do.
    In order to inform that “something is rotten in the state of Denmark” or “that one may smile and smile and be a villain, at least im sure it may be so in Denmark.” substitute Isis for Denmark. Also from the same speech by Hamlet. ” Thus conscience doth make cowards of us all, and thus the native hue of resolution is sicklied over with the pale cast of thought.”
    You are surely familiar with the idea that “Rex Mundi” is the ruler of this planet and that “the children of this world are wiser in their way than the children of light.”
    Hitler had also quite a following and see how that ended. Must you wait until the end?
    Getting personal I asked Robert once why he continued to have sex with his students, his reply was “in order to provide friction for them”. When i asked Abraham Goldman which is an assumed name, he took early on in his Fellowship career, anyway when i asked Dear old honest Abe who is a shark masquerading as a dolphin, why this situation was allowed to continue his answer was “too weird or not too weird”. When i asked Girard it was “we cant judge robert by the same standards as we judge normal men”. So the resources of the organisation are soundly behind maintaining the status quo. Up to that point these were three of the men i respected most in the world.
    If its the numbers that impress you consider how many have left. Oh i just remembered something else that Robert said in relation to my by no means unique seduction by him he said ” “Im taking advantage of your features”. All hearsay but i would be prepared to testify to this in a court of law and swear on my childrens lives that its true. Do you believe that its simple revenge which motivates us?
    also sincerely to you, student from the heart of hearts. Cyclops.


  495. Blog participants can’t help noticing that several current members of the Fellowship of Friends have been the source of many mean-spirited, sarcastic and intimidating posts.

    What is the real message?

    “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves… A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit… So then, you will know them by their fruits. (Matthew 7, 15-20)


  496. on June 11, 2007 at 5:31 pm Veronicapoe

    For those interested, “Recruitment diagrams, 1971-1972” are now online:

    http://www.archive.org/details/TheEsotericHistoryArchive_410


  497. on June 11, 2007 at 5:32 pm You-me-us-they

    To Student, post 490,

    “For sure someone (Influence C ?) is protecting Robert. Since my guide is Influence C I go with them. So far they have allowed Robert to be the way he is. ”

    This is a direct consequence of the real time.
    Great!
    Please, Dear Student, consider my previous post, number 492,
    as being written for You!

    Permission? “For sure!
    And you know what?
    The someone” is You!
    This someone is me !

    I experience a strange situation:
    I am officialy out of the FOF
    and, as such, free from concerns reguarding what is happening within the “innies” (still like this formulation)
    but it is simply not so…

    I am even not a father nor a mother!

    I might just be wearing orange socks…

    Gratitude.


  498. Dear student #490: you dutifully remind us that “the suits were filed by former members who failed to produce evidence to support their accusations.”

    If the cases were settled before going to trial, naturally no evidence would have been formally presented, on either side. By settling the suit, Burton & Co. avoided the uncomfortable process of being deposed under oath. They also effectively prevented the sworn depositions of the complainants from entering the public record if the case went to trial.

    I find it amazing that so many people continue to demand “evidence” in the face of so many first-hand accounts, covering many years, detailing the ongoing situation. What kind of evidence would convince them? A videotape? No good — too easily faked. If the glove don’t fit, you must acquit, eh? The self-deception involved here is really mind-boggling.


  499. on June 11, 2007 at 5:40 pm Comic Relief

    Hello, Sheik,

    Are you still monitoring us round, square and oblong idiots?
    its almost time to start Part 12. My scroll finger is getting tired.

    BTW:
    The perfect cure for LOL, et al,
    is the active use of the scroll wheel/bar.
    (sung to the tune of the Pepsodent jingle).

    If you won’t take my word for it, “Ask your doctor”.


  500. 500…”The self-deception involved here is really mind-boggling.”

    It surely is. If one looks back it’s interesting how the members that so stridently defended RB, and refused to acknowledge the truth, and claimed they were lies by disgruntled ex-members were the ones who were the most upset and vehement when they finally accepted the accusations as truth, as if being lied to was far worse than the crimes being perpetrated on the male members (pun intended).


  501. on June 11, 2007 at 7:03 pm for the Best_1

    #408 & #501 Comic Relief

    Thank for your Hollywood quotes and you humor.

    Aline


  502. on June 11, 2007 at 7:11 pm You-me-us-they

    Bruce, post 502

    “as if being lied to was far worse than the crimes being perpetrated”

    Dear Bruce, you can be as difficult as you can be brilliant!
    Surely, you know something about “observation”. Bravo!

    To me, this seems to confirm the validity of keeping real time, no moderation option.

    Makes me ready(?), grateful, for the “miracles”… Thanks Sheik!

    Gratitude


  503. Difficult, moi?


  504. to reply to Walter Tanner #130/11

    “So what I’m basically saying is that by my time things were a lot groovier, there was no “hell” language, the Fellowship had kind-of grown up. A lot of the hostility, which may be absolutely legitimate, does come from the “first” generations of the Fellowship, and I think to identify to closely with their arguments will blind one to the fact the Fellowship has changed in the past and could absolutely do so in the future.”

    You should question were this thinking comes from. If you were not there than the only knowledge you would have of the “early generations” was gossip. Not the best source. If however you actually read through old publications like “Via Del Sol”, “The Mount Carmel Journal” and “The Renaissance Journal” you might be surprised at what a high percentage of the real knowledge of self observation came from students. It is no accident that almost all of the early students who had been the “senior” members left when they discovered Robert’s duplicity.


  505. A former student 506

    If however you actually read through old publications like “Via Del Sol”, “The Mount Carmel Journal” and “The Renaissance Journal” you might be surprised at what a high percentage of the real knowledge of self observation came from students. It is no accident that almost all of the early students who had been the “senior” members left when they discovered Robert’s duplicity.

    ———————————————————————–

    All the quotes were written by Linda Kaplan (Linda T. ?) and then Burton selected various names to go with the quotes, the members never said what was attributed to them.


  506. on June 11, 2007 at 8:11 pm Skeptical Optimist

    507 Correction

    All the quotes were written by Linda Kaplan (Linda T. ?) and then Burton selected various names to go with the quotes, the members never said what was attributed to them.

    Only partly true. In most of the “journals” the quotes were actually edited from meeting transcripts and are the words/thoughts of the speakers, mostly students. It’s also true that when Burton wanted to insert comments, Linda would write them and assign them to phantom speakers. But for most of the time, these were “straight.”

    JoelF


  507. on June 11, 2007 at 8:13 pm You-me-us-they

    To Bruce:
    on 11 Jun 2007 at 7:20 pm505 Bruce

    Difficult, moi?

    on 06 Jun 2007 at 9:52 pm78 Bruce
    #75, Crawl back under your rock with your reptilian friends cyclops. I doubt anyone here wants to read that kind of moronic shit.

    Was this You ?

    Is a few hundread post ago too far in the past for you?

    Reminds me joke I made when considering difficulties I might have with short memory.

    Just have to meet someone repeating forever the same story and we will have the most interesting love affair!

    Gratitude.


  508. on June 11, 2007 at 8:20 pm I'm Corrected

    Skeptical Optimist 508

    Sorry, one does hear stories.


  509. 509 You left out what the post referred to…blatant antisemitism. And I stand by that post. Do you think I plucked it out of the air to just be a d**k?


  510. 509 “Is a few hundred post ago too far in the past for you?”

    Is putting something in context too complex for you?


  511. on June 11, 2007 at 8:31 pm Ames Gilbert

    To Correction (#11-490)
    I believe your statement is too extreme. I wasn’t there for the Via Del Sol or Mount Carmel journals. But I was there for every issue of the Renaissance Journal. I moved to Renaissance in 1978. I went to all the meetings after the third or fourth issue. After about six issues, becoming suspicious, I started to make and compare notes about what was said and what was printed. I’d say that Linda certainly edited most of the angles (at least I saw her often reading proofs and correcting them in the press room. She did sometimes make some important changes, but generally stuck to the intent of the angle. But, as time went on, extra angles invented by her and Burton were inserted; some of them were clear plagiarisms. I guess unattributed ‘angles’ by classical writers added an air of nobility. Since many were from the 44, I suppose they gave their permission to their representative on earth?


  512. Most of the journals were and are wonderful reading material, still useful after all these days. Yes grammar was corrected sometimes, to make this into readable format but, as one who was there, no major liberties were taken and always efforts were there to attribute to the eminent people in the past.

    Thank you all for sharing this bit of history.

    PS does anyone still have a set of complete Mount Carmel Journals and Renaissance journals.

    Interested buyer.


  513. on June 11, 2007 at 8:42 pm Comic Relief

    Thank you for your support, Aline. (503, for the Best_1):

    I decided the most useful and fun way for me to participate was to try and lower the stress level on this blog by sprinkling carefully chosen humor among the serious posts.

    Taking things, other people and oneself too seriously can literally be dangerous to your health, as explained by the following ‘experts’.

    “One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one’s work is terribly important.” Bertrand Russell

    “Don’t take life too seriously, you’ll never get out of it alive.” Elbert Hubbard

    “In an optimal world, I would not be necessary.” J. P. Salsman


  514. Hi guys,
    The Contact list is going very well. Many people have already responded with their e-mail addresses and other info. If you too wish to be included (and receive a copy of the list by e-mail) please send your info to
    malaec@optonline.net
    Please put “Contact list” in the subject line.
    In friendship,
    Janna Makaeva


  515. on June 11, 2007 at 8:55 pm Veronicapoe

    For those interested, “Meeting of the Board of Directors of Renaissance Monastery, February 20, 1982” is now online:

    http://www.archive.org/details/TheEsotericHistoryArchive_830


  516. Re. 392–Unoanimo–imo-the transformation of negative emotions becomes as effortless as the degree to which one has trained oneself to notice its birth. I picked that up the first year or two in the vegatable garden. Once the weeds set down some decent roots they are much much harder to pull out. After a relatively short while of leading a healthy joyful life, it becomes almost mechanical to say, “Hey, what’s happening here? Some negative stuff stepping on my corns? Well, ALL IS WELL! That’s it, that’s all. If on some occasion I happen to get sucked in, it cannot escape my notice. I will remember the incident when I go to bed or when I wake up the next morning, sometimes in the middle of the night, and figure out my strategy, something like this. Ok. I was in a hurry to get Sarita to nursery school on time. The bus driver stopped in the middle of the road instead of pulling over. I got upset. Why? Which one of my addictions or buttons did that press? Hummm Don’t know, maybe arrogance? maybe vulnerability? Jeez better work on that one! It’s a bitch! Vulnerability that is. I sure don’t want to evolve into a crybaby and attract all of those creepy crawlies, especially the traffic cops. “All IS WELL!” Just in case I better remind God and myself what I DO want. Now I’m talkin’. At this point I invoke my sequence. I put it together when answering the following question on yahoo answers. Never been to any caves.

    If God asks you to make a wish what will it be?
    I mean if God tells you to ask for a thing you want him to do for you at once, what will it likely be?

    God asks us all to make wishes. That is our job here in this and other worlds. My personal wish is to feel joy, knowledge, empowerment, freedom, love and appreciation at all times. These can take turns like the lights on my christmas tree, all six of them in sequence.

    Now I go back to be, bed that is, take three deep breaths, smile, and slip into first state. Works like a charm every time.

    By the way, unoanimo, thanks for the effort you made to answer my questions this morning. I’ve never read Mr. Tolle or Mr. Advaita, so most of it if not all was lost on me. No problem though, I will catch up in time.

    I also could not figure out why you thought that the person you were originally talking to had not crystallized because you sensed that he had the negative emotion of tolerance and the quality of expansion. I sense that something is amiss there, but then what the bleep do I know?

    It is asking a lot but does anyone out there have any experience with negative emotions? How would you rate the negativeness (is that painbody?) of the following emotions from less negative to more negative? It is okay if in your opinion some of them are equal. They are:
    boredom—tolerance—doubt—pessimism

    Kiran might have the info for the above in his Energetix manual. I will check him out when he gets back from the conference. Either way it is still interesting to see how different individuals rate these as it is not an exact science yet. We can help to make it more exact. It is important enough since it can help us navigate up the scale to love.
    Joy to All !!! Deep Gratitude to All! Renald (Ron)


  517. Driving, listening to NPR, I heard an advertisement for an essay contest on ending relationships – any kind, jobs, home, lovers, marriage, country, etc. Hey!, I thought, maybe we could submit an essay about “Breaking up with the Fellowship” or “Leaving my Teacher” or “How I left my Cult”, etc. Several ex-members have noted that leaving the school is like leaving a marriage.

    Anyway, for you writers out there, here is the blurb on the web:

    “Essay Contest: Break-Ups
    Everyone has some experience with breaking up–whether it’s ending a relationship, or leaving a job. Submit an essay about your break-up–it can involve lovers, friends, relatives, you name it. Submit your essay here. There is no limit placed on length. We are interested in memoir-pieces about break-ups, general ruminations on break-ups, and combinations of the two. Please DO NOT submit previously published essays. The deadline for submissions is June 22. And on Thursday, June 28th, essayist Phillip Lopate will discuss the winning essays.”

    and the url is http://www.wnyc.org/shows/lopate/episodes/2007/06/28

    if that doesn’t work, I found it by googling Leonard Lopate Show essay contest.


  518. #484 Laura

    Thanks for the link. It worked! So many wonderful beings in this world.


  519. In Reply to Renald (Post #518/11)

    You wrote ~

    “I also could not figure out why you thought that the person you were originally talking to had not crystallized because you sensed that he had the negative emotion of tolerance and the quality of expansion. I sense that something is amiss there, but then what the bleep do I know?”

    ____________________________

    Yes, my friend, something is “amiss”, go back and re-read that correspondence, that was Whalerider, who I replied to, BTW.

    I never said that my version of describing a quality of Whalerider using the word ‘tolerance’ was a negative emotion, nor did he imply it as an expression or experience of negativity,

    who ever said that the words we use to define/label the ‘negative’ are not interchangeable with those positive qualities needing names too?

    Gratitude can be either the appetite of non-existence or true letting go of greed and willfulness to allow another to give you something of their being, without your messing with the amplifier as they sing it out.

    Tolerance is the same, it can be real external consideration to be patient with another’s identification and one’s ‘own’, or it can be the mechanical goodness of the King of Hearts, or again, the sponge-Venusian, non-existence thing.

    Evey big word has three sides to its coin,
    the front, the back and its edge; when stood on its edge, allows both sides to show themselves as an impression, not necessarily a direction one must morally believe in.

    Thanks again for the sharing.
    _____________________

    Love to you all.


  520. Thank you Veronicapoe, thanks to your wonderful efforts dedicated to our shared history–we can read how dedicated, serious and well intended Miles, Charles Randall, Carl Mautz, and many former (and current) members are about their Church!

    Truly a wonderful effort. Keep up the good work!


  521. It is interesting to me to observe the defenders of the Fof keep asking for proofs of the ‘interesting’ private/not-so private- life of R. It is this the way to defend? Asking for proofs?
    I was a night guard for 8 years at the galleria! Do you really want proof, yes is true. You really didn’t know? And you are in the school to wake up? Scary.

    Adults that could say no? Maybe, maybe not.
    Some are 20 years old, on salary, meaning $400 a month. They believe R. is God. Suddenly they are traveling, nice clothes, good life, everybody (I mean everybody) sleeps with him, so it almost feel normal. Once you said yes the first time, you are accepted in the group (a bit of a disturbed group I would say).
    Nobody comes forward. Really? Strange, which eterosexual man wouldn’t like to expose himself, saying that he was or still is part of R. entourage. He already has to deal with the fact himself, maybe is not that easy to tell the rest of the world, that, like an idiot you said yes (at least for awhile) and then you accepted all kind of stupid truths to justify yourself or your teacher. So while dealing with all kind of stupid things like that, why not go out and tell everybody what kind of an idiot you’re?
    But then again at least you’re not trying to tell everybody else that everything is fine and if you have verified Incluence C(?!)and that it’s all that is required from you.
    Please stop asking for proofs, you know is all true, at least, for a little bit, try to be honest! (or it’s just feminine dominance?)

    see ya
    A.


  522. Imagine the faithful accepting the unvarnished truth. I can’t imagine the inner trauma they would have to face collectively and individually. It’s much easier to deny, especially when one’s personal blindness, and or/ stupidity is entwined in one’s investment. For myself I found that knowledge isn’t quite enough without some kind of third force to overcome one’s reticence about being wrong.


  523. In Reply to Post #490/11 & #491/11

    Hello ‘student’ ~ (Post #490/11)

    I’m going to take your post in two parts, with
    Ames’ question in the middle.

    You wrote (concerning the FOF lawsuit) ~

    “and what was the outcome of this lawsuit?”
    ___________________

    Many events, the two worthy of ‘in a nut shell-ness’ are:

    A rather sizable (500,000 – 800,000 dollar) damage settlement for Troy Buzbee, so far as my sources go. Regardless of the exact monetary settlement, the gist of it is that your teaching payments (and many others) go to ‘teach’ Robert Burton’s ‘cushion’ how to be more comfy when Robert Burton’s falls.

    You might say “The insurance pays for it.” Yes, yet the students pay for the insurance premiums, Robert Burton is a high risk customer, be sure that the insurance company milk’s the Fellowship of Friends for all its worth, to them, allot: hence, ‘You play, you pay.’ And that they have read those ‘sealed court documents’, you don’t think that they would pay for something they could not get, do you?

    The other was the incredible ‘Ripley’s Believe it or not’ scene of Abraham G., having someone (perhaps it was he himself) get on a plane, go to where Troy B. was living (after) the lawsuit was filed and present to him a legal form to sign,

    compliments of Robert Burton and Goldman Associates ~

    ‘A release of personal reliability due to mental incompetence.’ Basically its a form that asks one to consent, by signing it, that ~ ‘Yes, I am a coconut and like to swing in tree tops and sue people for their coconuts’.

    Troy would not sign it;

    on the side money (“Troy, how much do you want?” ~ Troy’s response, “It’s not about the money.”) was offered, he chose to take it to court and won, so to speak.

    Those court files are sealed, yet, I am sure that if enough people from the ‘regular community’ in Oregon House wrote ‘The Terminator’, those could be ‘dug up’ on some ‘right to know’ basis.

    It is most likely not a coincidence that we have currently ‘The Arnold’ as governor, he’s the ‘exact’ combination of ‘practical forces’ to terminate the Fellowship of Friends, its up to ‘the people’ to rattle his cage and maybe toss in a few thick rib eye steaks from the Kentucky mail order beef farm.

    ___________________________________

    Hello Ames (Post #491/11)

    Do I know M.M.? Nope.

    Thanks for the painbody study alert though, I know these sorts, I met my first while in 10th grade, during a business class lecture…at the end of each ‘important message’ he would say “Mary, mother of our lord, Jesus Christ!” as an exclamation point, this went on for about an hour,

    I recall the inner temperature of my spiritual magnetic center conundrum raised to evaporative levels, I was literally drinking my own self-vapor-gin.

    These ‘types’ are very extreme, very desperate, very unstable, yet surprisingly ‘mild’ (solar aspect helps) compared to going to action for what they ‘believe’, i.e., they’re not militants, yet.

    These groups of ‘spirits’ are amazingly ‘raw’, not many buffers in place and if they are, they spin around like a colliding meteor belt.

    I actually like being in their midst, its dynamic and one must make interesting adaptations to remain ‘boogieing’, particularly when they want to sell you their interpretive, while talking to themselves through the listener being a ‘mirror’… It’s wild, though, so what, Hell first, Heaven last.
    _____________________________

    2nd part Reply to Post #490/11

    You wrote ~

    “If it is ALL true, why is there not more evidence or turmoil. For sure someone (Influence C ?) is protecting Robert. Since my guide is Influence C I go with them. So far they have allowed Robert to be the way he is. You could argue this viewpoint is the result of the FOF indoctrination, but it comes straight from Gurdjieff: Man cannot do, everything happens.”
    _________________________

    Gee wiz ‘student’ there’s about 4000 pages here of “more evidence”, read and let’s see. If you need ‘hard core’ evidence I would advise you to ask Robert Burton himself, see what you get. If that does not satiate, then do your homework, read the entire blog, visit Rick Ross’s site and read about Robert Burton’s ‘spiritual parents’, Alex Horn and friends, their beginnings, law suits, etc.,

    Yoda says ~ “Carbon copy that Robert is.”
    _____________

    No one (or gods) is protecting Robert Earl Burton any more than the gods are protecting Osama Bin Laden,

    how protect the guard dog you’ve raised as a puppy? That’s his job, not his mother’s or father’s.

    Think about the implication of your statement, if the gods are what you assume they are, their nature, powers, etc., there is no need to protect anything, from what? This would imply that the gods are vulnerable, ‘under’ the laws of the earth-game-board, that your decisions and actions are somehow synonymous with theirs… combat-able with theirs,

    do you really ‘sense’ that Guanyin came back to earth to protect people from gaining their own wisdom of their true selves,

    ‘cannot do, just happens…’ This is just silly talk. I would advise you to read “Daughter of Fire”, in there you’ll meet a ‘real’ teacher and he’ll set you deeper on the path to ‘objective’ scale and relativity…

    the solar system is much bigger when you’re present and so big, that there’s just too much room for Love, that’s good news.

    You wrote ~

    “…but it comes straight from Gurdjieff: Man cannot do, everything happens.”
    ________________________

    now that’s amazing ‘indoctrination’ indeed and no, I am not going to argue it.

    Remember, Gurdjieff put that statement at the ‘beginning’ of the proposal of conscious work, not at the middle, nor the end… good grief, you guys are ‘bowling for dollars’.

    I love ya though.

    This is the mess Robert Burton has gotten you guys into, we’ve got to re-schedule all the prospective meetings again for those who have been in the Fellowship of Friends for more than 1 year.

    Yes, everything happens, though ‘in time’, ‘in identification’, ‘in the crystallized format’, in the ‘little me parameter’… Then there’s the ‘outside of time’, choosing second and third thought, not the first, etc.

    See, student? You have put that statement by Gurdjieff exactly where it is most convenient for a saturnine to have it, right in the middle of your life’s ability to choose which end of the candle to light first, believe me, Robert Burton eats first at the dinner table, all else proceed in the dark.

    ‘You cannot do, everything happens’, what a great ‘do’ for a saturnine aspect to get in there and ‘not do’, make things ‘not happen’.

    As far as I can sense it, Gurdjieff was looking for one thing, the conscious ability and vehicle-ship of the Astral Body, I am sure he had ‘experiences’ he could not will himself, could not ‘do’, could not ‘make happen’, that ‘just happened’ with him… So, out he went to find his own will, his own conscious ‘first force’, his god-head.

    And he found it. Be creative, sense, if man cannot ‘do’ and everything ‘just happens’, then how does this information even exist, what for, we don’t need it, right? And if we don’t need it based on the inner premise that everything happens, then how is it that it stirs us so? How does ‘stir’ occur in a static self, a self that at its very core of cores cannot do, how then the desire to ‘do’, to find a way to ‘do’? All this points to another You, something that you are ‘covered with’ speaks for itself and not you.

    Since you cannot do, then what use are the gods, certainly they cannot make you ‘do’,
    you cannot, i.e., square in round circle. A few long thoughts on this subject would be great. It’s the style of the Fellowship of Friends to give out little ‘quotes’, de-personalized, sterilized, uncompromising and absolutely close ended, yet, this is not The Path, otherwise shoe stores would only sell one arch fitting, one construction of shoe.

    I sense that there’s allot of generalizing for the sake of ‘group self calming’, this happens in family’s allot, specifically for the protection of the ‘self-calming outlets for the King of Clubs and Hearts’.

    I used to ask my dad, “Dad, why don’t you listen to me, it’s the truth and you know it, rather than what you know is your wife’s lies, how could you support a lie?”

    His answer,

    “Because, she’s my wife, go to your room.”

    Or

    “It’s the will of C-Influence and I know you better than you know yourself.”

    Move with presence, get a Uhaul if necessary and a Ryder.
    ___________________________________

    Love to you all.


  524. on June 11, 2007 at 10:50 pm Was KathleenW

    Re editing of angels given at meetings . . .

    I remember seeing one of mine in the journal and finding it nearly unrecognizable. I concluded that because it had been several weeks since the meeting, maybe I just couldn’t remember what I had said.

    Others were experiencing the same thing around that time. It became a quiet joke to read the journals to learn what one had said at the meeting. I agree that the angles usually weren’t made up, but they were sometimes edited nearly beyond recognition.


  525. on June 11, 2007 at 10:53 pm Oregon House concerned

    I have an idea for those that are “still members” before they leave.
    Forward the blog address to as many people as you know in the school.
    Its amazing to see how many actual students express support with the blog!

    Also printing a letter or a flyer and mailing it to the “life people” in Oregon House can be very useful to support the blog’s expansion.

    To all in the blog:
    Do you know of anyone that has a mailing list of the people in local community?


  526. on June 11, 2007 at 11:06 pm Isis Fencesitter

    sure A–let me explain, you may have known for 8 years what is going on, but many of us do not know the details and a lot is hard to believe–and most of this is not about wanting proof, or defending anything, but we want desperately to be shown it is NOT true! This is unlikely to happen as I can see already.

    can i aks what took you so long, if you don’t mind sharing, since you have obviously been around for a long time. Also you were a guard like Richard Buzbee, so it was not force but are you saying you were fooled? or coerced, or manipulated, or brainwashed? what gave?

    thanks


  527. History #514: Some of the journals can be found at bythewaybooks. They were in Sacramento and now they are in the middle of Iowa.


  528. these are for students.


    with love Cyclops.


  529. Isis Fencesitter 531
    sure A–let me explain, you may have known for 8 years what is going on, but many of us do not know the details and a lot is hard to believe–and most of this is not about wanting proof, or defending anything, but we want desperately to be shown it is NOT true! This is unlikely to happen as I can see already.

    can i aks what took you so long, if you don’t mind sharing, since you have obviously been around for a long time. Also you were a guard like Richard Buzbee, so it was not force but are you saying you were fooled? or coerced, or manipulated, or brainwashed? what gave?

    ______________________

    I can only speculate, but it is not hard to understand.

    You know what the feature of dominance is right? Dominance: big smart Saturn talking you into complying and using over-bearing body language to make your instinctive center feel like it has to comply with all commands. Now add this to that, “I’m your teacher and you need to give up your will to me, you need to trust me about what your evolution needs, dear. C influence, the invisible Gods that make everything good happen, want you to have a blowjob. Of course if you don’t you can go back into the vineyard and work like a dog for nothing, or leave. But no more great dinners, no more girls falling all over you, no more rides in the big car, no more trips around the world, no more telling people what to do in my name and especially no more “teaching” from me. You don’t want that do you? Now, unzip those pants.”


  530. on June 11, 2007 at 11:59 pm Simple truth

    We are responsibles just of ourselves.
    We have the responsabilitie of our own lifes and no more.

    we can not make the work for others,
    you can not to save the world, that, is only a deviation of the duty of to be responsible with yourselfes.

    do your work, and let to everyone to be ocupied with their own work,

    Be your self and avoid to think in others because you are being manipulated by your own King of Clubs.

    For the King of Clubs, to be identified with anything is better than to do the work.


  531. Q: How many students does it take to change a light bulb?

    A: Change?


  532. on June 12, 2007 at 12:09 am The King of Clubs

    Simple truth #534

    “We are responsibles just of ourselves.
    We have the responsabilitie of our own lifes and no more.

    “we can not make the work for others,
    you can not to save the world, that, is only a deviation of the duty of to be responsible with yourselfes.

    “do your work, and let to everyone to be ocupied with their own work,

    “Be your self and avoid to think in others because you are being manipulated by your own King of Clubs.

    “For the King of Clubs, to be identified with anything is better than to do the work.”

    It’s the king of clubs that says, no Robert you can’t stick that up there or anywhere else. That’s one of the things the king of clubs is good for, keeping a manipulating false prophet from raping you via spiritual hypnosis.


  533. > Those court files are sealed,

    Sez who. Court files don’t get sealed.


  534. on June 12, 2007 at 12:20 am Isis Fencesitter

    So Wake up, are you saying basically that it is worth it? Far out! No wonder there are so few complaints!

    and you are not even sure:

    you write I can only speculate…

    You know what the feature of dominance is right? Dominance: big smart Saturn talking you into complying and using over-bearing body language to make your instinctive center feel like it has to comply with all commands. Now add this to that, “I’m your teacher and you need to give up your will to me, you need to trust me about what your evolution needs, dear. C influence, the invisible Gods that make everything good happen, want you to have a blowjob. Of course if you don’t you can go back into the vineyard and work like a dog for nothing, or leave. But no more great dinners, no more girls falling all over you, no more rides in the big car, no more trips around the world, no more telling people what to do in my name and especially no more “teaching” from me. You don’t want that do you? Now, unzip those pants.”

    and this goes on for 8 years, and then what? keep unzipping until it is time to leave the school and then complained?

    this expalains very little!


  535. Isis Fencesitter 538

    “and this goes on for 8 years, and then what? keep unzipping until it is time to leave the school and then complained?

    this expalains very little!”

    You sound like a very likely candidate for some first hand experience with your conscious teacher, let’s see if you complain later.


  536. “534 Simple truth

    We are responsibles just of ourselves.
    We have the responsabilitie of our own lifes and no more.

    we can not make the work for others,
    you can not to save the world, that, is only a deviation of the duty of to be responsible with yourselfes.

    do your work, and let to everyone to be ocupied with their own work,

    Be your self and avoid to think in others because you are being manipulated by your own King of Clubs.

    For the King of Clubs, to be identified with anything is better than to do the work.”
    —————————————————————————-
    The true credo of the enabler, the procurer and the pimp. The mantra of the soulless and conscience-less. The song of the narcissistic and vapid.

    Let’s not forget the procurers. A crime that’s pretty much up there with RB’s. To sacrifice others to avoid or reduce one’s own time “in bed” without thought outside of oneself because….”We are responsible just of ourselves.”

    That is one sick philosophy. A bastardization and half truth to justify the unjustifiable.


  537. “It’s the king of clubs that says, no Robert you can’t…”

    And the King of Hearts probably has something to say about it, too. But not before the King of Clubs is already shaking some sense into him.

    Ironic isn’t it? The King of Clubs actually DOES take students out of the school! But here’s something we don’t read in those Renaissance Journals:

    The King of Hearts loves him for it.


  538. Dear Moon Angel (#275)

    You said: “I would like others familiar with the current teaching to comment on this interpretation.”

    As a member until recently I would like to confirm that your description of the current substance and form of the Fellowship of Friends matches my own experience more or less completely. Your post had the added virtue of being succinct. Thank you.

    This dramatic shift away from its previously stated ideal as a “practical school of love” was my own core reason for leaving the Fellowship of Friends, even though I still value much that I gained from my it. For current members I personally believe it is the teaching, not the sex, that is most difficult to rationalize or accept today. The ugly disclosures on this blog only serve to underline how bizarre and self-conflicted the Fellowship of Friends has become, and how undeserving of trust or support has become its leader, Robert Burton.

    For me the following quote (sans keys) sums up my own feelings:

    “Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?” Luke 14:34

    Since leaving, the sequence has become even less appealing to me as a potential spiritual tool, and points out a prevailing attitude in the Fellowship that essentially assumes the machine (i.e. via the steward) can become conscious (read: prolong presence) through making more effort. I now believe this approach to be vanity.

    With love,

    joseph.granados@gmail.com


  539. Some excerpts from:

    http://www.esotericfreedom.com/thinkingforourselves.html
    http://www.esotericfreedom.com/

    (Thanks again to the person who posted these URLs.)

    ======================

    “Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” –Buddha

    ======================

    “In school, I learned to call my doubts ‘denying force’. I now believe those ‘doubts’ are really my conscience that is desperately trying to be heard. Conscience is buried but it isn’t buried where I thought it was. There IS something in a man or woman that never lies…”

    ======================

    “Above all, we must be truly honest with ourselves as to what our real questions about School are. What are the things that have bothered me for years but I have never spoken about? Things that I have never spoken about even to my partner or my best friend or my spouse because I was always afraid that they might not really understand what I was saying and/or report me to a teacher?”

    ======================

    “You have a right to know where your money has gone.”

    ======================

    “Why are we taught to shine the light of consciousness on everything except the school we attend? Is secrecy really necessary for school’s existence? Certain things are incapable of living in the light like cockaroaches. What happens if we shine the light of consciousness on school?”

    ======================

    “Silence is Complicity.”

    ======================

    “If we are truly going to think for ourselves then we must ask questions and demand answers.”


  540. on June 12, 2007 at 1:00 am Simple truth

    The Cousciousness is not the functions

    Why you prefer the world of words?

    “It is my wish to leave everything that I can think of and choose for my love
    the thing I cannot think, because God can certainly be loved but not thought.”
    [Anonymous English Monk]

    “To breathe consciously means passing from one breath to the next in presence, not in
    heedlessness. Do not allow a single breath to be drawn empty and heedless of God.” [Kashghari]


  541. 543 Simple truth

    Do you have anything to say that’s yours, or that hasn’t been predigested for you?


  542. #538 Isis Fencesitter:
    “…and this goes on for 8 years, and then what? keep unzipping until it is time to leave the school and then complained?
    …this expalains very little!”

    It is called BUFFERS, actually.
    That’s what keeps the blog going….those making the loudest noise are those with the biggest buffers.


  543. 2b (541):

    Yes, the King of Clubs can take us out of the school. The King of Clubs can keep us in the school. I am watching it all around me in the Home and Garden Society we created.

    So the King of Clubs is what it is and does what it does. Neither good nor bad. The point is that to use these concepts as yardsticks becomes useless once the yardsticks are twisted in one direction.

    The worst lies begin with a truth.


  544. Someone suggested that what keeps the blog going is BUFFERS (the emphasis was theirs). I thought we were just tawking (I’m from New Jersey) amongst ourselves. By the way, have you tried the this year’s crop of peaches? WOW!

    Best to everyone


  545. Have not tried the peaches but what about those cherries?
    (Ba-Da-Boom)


  546. Dear Joseph G.

    Thank you for your post. Very well said. I am glad someone is willing to face the real issue facing the students.

    For most of us, the sex scandals are horrid, but do/did not directly effect us.

    It really boils down to the teaching.

    What are the students actually learning?

    There was a period of time when the teaching gave me something, I think this was a brief period about 3-4 years ago, the “time of wine and roses”, then everything went berserk with auctions, trips, endless meetings, the farce of the sequence, etc.

    I hope that more people who know what is going on in FOF teaching wise will comment and give opinions pro and con.

    This is the real issue that needs to be discussed.

    Otherwise, we are just “beating a dead horse” at this point since so much has already been exposed.


  547. For those who don’t want to scroll back here is my post from 275

    —-

    Most people on this blog are probably not familiar with the most recent teachings.

    The teachings are one of the most important aspects to consider since they keep people in the school. 249 Traveler gives some idea of what is going on.

    But for those of you on the blog who haven’t been in the “school” for the last four years the teaching has changed course away from Forth Way and Ouspensky and G no longer serve as the foundation. Much of the teachers ideas and terminology have also changed as well, e.g. you rarely hear about Leonardo anymore.

    My recollection is that soon after a meeting on “know thyself” personal angles were not considered for Sunday meetings and the teacher started delving into the Sufis and the bible among others. Students were asked to stop reading forth way material and the teacher went in a new direction.

    During this period Girard seems to have become marginalized (a few Giradites- ardent followers of Girard still follow his struggles to interpret the new teaching with the desperate hope of making sense of it in forth way terminology.) and a new being Asaf has been developed to replace Girard. Asaf has been pivotal in helping Robert establish the new teaching. Rumor is that he is conscious, but like Girard in days of old he denies it for now.

    Anyway, the new teaching advocates that the idea that being present is ancient and goes back to prehistoric times and that is part of some secrect message carried on by schools. the Fellowship is the last school in humanity and its job is synthesize the info. from all other schools, e.g. sufis, gothics, christians, moslems, jews, egyptians, prehistoric peoples, etc.. The teacher got a windfall of material from Egypt, and the “school” took several trips there to study Egyptian art and architecture. During this period the teaching became more arcane and dogmatic. Everything was related to presence, or the sequence. The teacher is constantly is telling everyone we are present, and the school has been a money making frenzy for the last few years pushing students to give as much as possible and buy raffle tickets, auction items etc. The property was developed to a large extent during this period as well and the teacher become more inacessible except during paying teaching events. Several prominent students also died during this time. The property was reanamed to Isis and many world class ballets were performed in a newly made greek theatron. The winery is no longer a focus.

    Getting back to the teaching, the main point is this idea called the sequence. The sequence is a series of six syllabus used to introduce and prolong presence. I it goes something like this (coordinate with your breathing)

    1) Be
    2) Hold
    3)subject e.g. look, taste, feel, hear, etc.
    4)back e.g. go back to presence
    5)subject
    6)long Be e.g. be present

    You are supposed to repeat this until you are present. When you are present, you stop because it is the Sabbath. You no longer need to seek because you have found. For worldess breaths.

    The sequence seems to be a form of prayer to protect you from being possessed by the devil (King of Clubs).

    The devil is the king of clubs (a direct key illustrated in numerous pictures and text by the teacher)

    The steward as the nine of hearts, an angel that brings the keys to heaven by helping you to promote presence(world twelve).

    Imagination is keyed as evil. Sin. To be in imagination is to be in a state of sin. To be possessed by the devil.

    Many students say that someone is “possessed by their king of clubs” if they question the teaching, have thoughts about putting their interests above the schools, or if they leave the school.
    ——-

    Basically if you are not using the sequence…(prayer)…you are sinful..(in imagination)…and therefore possessed by your lowerself..(the devil)…if you do not become present…(in a redeemed state…heaven)…you will forever be asleep…(in hell).
    —-

    Basically, the “school” seems to be a version of fundamentalist Christian religion put into a more exotic package.

    Personally, I do not buy the claim that the teaching is a new way, or a veiled reference, to the system. Some students insist the teacher is not being literal, and this the king of clubs, devil for example is just a metaphor for lower self, etc.

    If you actually attend teaching events, pay to watch the numerous DVD’s at center events, or read the weekly thoughts from the teacher it is stretch to say these ideas are a metaphor and they are presented in a deadly serious manner as some of the most important ideas in the history of humanity. This does not seem to be the system dressed in new clothes. It seems to be religion.

    I would like others familiar with the current teaching to comment on this interpretation.


  548. on June 12, 2007 at 3:03 am Simple truth

    Do you think that your thinking is very important? I said is not,

    your thinking and the people thinking is subjective, and nothing important,
    the all world can live without you and without your thinking because you are nothing, except mechanical functions.

    Have you verify your own sleep?
    Have you verify your own mechanicallity?
    Your thinking is nothing, but, the presence is the inner meaning of life.

    All of this is from my own.

    “Be Clever Remember yourself” this is from Ouspensky.
    and some times is better to listen higher minds rather than yours.


  549. on June 12, 2007 at 3:08 am Skeptical Optimist

    So I guess “Simple Truth” has replaced Siddiq, Howard Carter, et al, MIA.

    JoelF


  550. In a dusty attic, filled with cobwebs and things long forgotten, I recently made an amazing discovery – fragments of an unknown work:

    Devil’s Dictionary
    (by King of Clubs; in cooperation with: Queen of Hearts)

    ACCELERATING, THE PACE IS – describes downhill movement
    A INFLUENCE – derogatory term for all material pursuits, gains, riches and relations outside of the Fellowship of Friends, perceived as a distraction from pure spirituality
    ANGLES OF THOUGHT – (archaic) individual expressions of subjective truth; see ‘quotations’
    B INFLUENCE – derogatory term for all spiritual pursuits and teachings outside of the Fellowship of Friends; often perceived as dangerous competition that could misguide you into believing the Fellowship is not the true path and failing to complete your task; see ‘completed his/her task’
    COMPLETED HIS/HER TASK – managed to stay a member until death; Cf. ‘lose the school’.
    CONSCIOUS BEING – someone whose actions are bizarre and disturbing, but has informed you that they only seem that way because he is in a universe above you, so you can’t understand him
    DEAR – subordinate
    DINE – to eat while being aware that you are a Fellowship member
    DONATIONS – mandatory fees for feeling saved and having friends
    EMOTIONAL ENERGY – exhilarating feeling of being backed by numerous people who believe the same things you do
    ENGAGE PRESENCE – grab hold of, control presence; get it to do what you want
    ENTOURAGE – harem
    EUROPEAN STYLE – a method of eating purportedly used in Europe and considered noble, in which you put the food on the back part of your fork and then bring it to your mouth
    EXTERNAL CONSIDERING – to drop your pants for your Teacher
    FORK WAY – a development of the Fourth Way in which large amounts of gourmet food are beautifully arranged on plates, shuffled around with a fork for a short time and then thrown away
    FORTY-FOUR – local timezone; as in: “The concert will start promptly at 6:44 PM.”
    FRIENDS – other believers
    GOING AGAINST THE MACHINE – doing something stupid just because it’s difficult, to prove to yourself that you’re really evolving
    GOSSIP – things you are better off not knowing if you don’t want to ‘lose the school’, see ‘lose the school’
    IMPRESSIONS – A influence in the service of spirituality, for spiritual consumption and as building material for one’s immortal soul, particularly when bought by the Teacher; see ‘A influence’
    INTENTIONAL INSINCERITY – misrepresenting aspects of your life that embarrass you
    INTERNAL WARFARE – see ‘living the contradictions’
    INTERVAL – a period of feeling guilty for having your own opinions
    I’S – leftovers of reason
    KING OF CLUBS – common sense
    MEDICAL LEAVE OF ABSENCE – period of probation for people perceived as threats to the establishment
    LIFE – people who make you feel good about yourself
    LIVING THE CONTRADICTIONS – maintaining cognitive dissonance
    LOSE THE SCHOOL, TO – to give up membership in the Fellowship of Friends; the implied failure and carelessness applies to all former members
    LOVELY EVENT – a gathering where members are told by the Teacher how they feel and what state they are in
    LOW ALCHEMY – too normal to be comfortable
    LOWER SELF – spontaneity
    MAGNETIC CENTER – idealistic sucker who needs to feel special
    MECHANICAL – behavior that displeases me
    MEETINGS – where people go to reassure each other that they are right
    MOON, IT’S A – warning to avoid impending danger of being exposed to gossip, see ‘gossip’
    NEW STUDENT – a person still learning which mannerisms are equated with being conscious
    OCTAVE – duty
    OLDER STUDENT – a person who has developed an ability to sound sure of themselves; other attributes include: sometimes swirls water in their glass, uses words such as ‘inexpensive’ instead of ‘cheap’ and dines in the European style; see ‘dine’, ‘European style’
    PLAY, THE – explanation why things are the way they are and should not be otherwise
    PLAY OF CRIME – attempts of enabling people universal access to information that could lead directly to your departure from the organization if you found out about it, much worse than gossip, this blog; see ‘gossip’
    POSITIVE ATTITUDE, MAINTAINING – suspending all disbelief and critical thinking with a view to prevent manifestations of the king of clubs and to go against the machine; see ‘king of clubs’, ‘going against the machine’
    PRESENCE – subject of ultimate appeal, part of a sales technique where it is suggested that purchasing a ticket or event seat is an indicator of your love of presence
    PROSPECTIVE STUDENT MEETING – a gathering for assessing the eagerness of interested third parties to be led and told what is right, to appeal to their disappointments, insecurities and feeling out of place, and to offer a safe haven where evolution is guaranteed (for a price)
    QUOTATIONS – pre-approved confetti-like shreds of old texts, declaimed by pre-approved speakers at public gatherings, creating the impression of audience participation; supersedes ‘angles’
    SALARY, TO BE ON – to work full time for two and a half dollars per hour in exchange for being exempt from paying a membership fee
    SCHOOL, OUR SACRED – an emotive way of referring to the Fellowship of Friends intended to help deepen valuation and the feelings of being special and chosen; see ‘valuation’
    SEQUENCE – a self-hypnosis technique
    SHAKING THE TREE – a process in which ripe fruits fall off the tree while unripe stay
    SHOCKS – events of one’s life as seen from an egocentric perspective
    STATE WE ARE IN – self-induced brain fog as a way of dealing with cognitive dissonance
    STUDENT – member
    TEACHER, OUR BELOVED – king of the sandbox; alpha male
    TEACHER’S WILL, DEFEATING – making the Teacher feel powerless; frustrating the Teacher
    THEY – purported astral beings who used to live as people on Earth but now are deciding everything that happens on Earth and restrict their direct communication to the Teacher; also called C influence
    VALUATION – increased investment of personal identity into being a member of the Fellowship of Friends
    VERIFICATION – (archaic) see ‘positive attitude’
    VERIFYING C INFLUENCE – paying special attention to synchronicity in your life and believing that it happens because you are a paying member of the Fellowship of Friends
    WILL OF C-INFLUENCE – wishes of the Teacher, particularly those that might meet with some resistance; see ‘they’
    WIT – a threat to awakening as serious business
    WONDERFUL OPPORTUNITY – where you go to empty your wallet


  551. on June 12, 2007 at 3:13 am Skeptical Optimist

    549 Moon Angel

    Otherwise, we are just “beating a dead horse” at this point since so much has already been exposed.

    Consider also that only a very small percentage of people have so far “told their stories.” Most—and that is thousands—have not, so maybe the horse is still alive. All of these stories deserve to be heard, and the blog has materialized the element that was missing—an audience.

    JoelF


  552. Traveler, you’re a genius. If there was anything I would want to distribute to FOF members it would be your great and noble document.


  553. Moon Angel 550

    “Several prominent students also died during this time.”

    Who died?


  554. on June 12, 2007 at 3:22 am Comic Relief

    Hello, Moon Angel,

    Sorry for paraphrasing part of your great post (275) but I just couldn’t resist:

    The sequence is a series of six syllables used to induce and prolong hypnosis. I it goes something like this (coordinate with your breathing):

    1) Be – “Oooh, the buzzin’ of the bees in the peppermint trees…”
    2) Good – “…and its sooo good for you!”
    3) Dear – “You’re such a good student, Dear!”
    4) Hand – “Don’t let your left hand know what your right hand is doing.”
    5) It – “Whatever ‘it’ is, its worthless to you when you are present.”
    6) Over – “It’ll all be over soon.”

    You are supposed to repeat this until you have hypnotized yourself. When you are in a trance, you stop because your are in the perfect suggestible state and will believe anything you are told. You no longer need to seek because they saw you coming first and you have just been had!

    Unfortunately for many, this is not a one-time occurrence.


  555. Ah hah! Simple Truth, I know you well.

    You are the well-dressed soul with the scary-harsh eyes as you plant me your false-smiling Judas kiss-and-hug and I see the wheels turning in your head judging, condescending from your unassailable tough-love plateau of superiority as you float from the meeting tent self-satisfied with your esoteric research and your preordained position in RB’s clever sleepless paradise observing the mechanicality of machines cluttering your path less-traveled to the righteous blessings of higher mind that your own pre-paid yet incompletely remembered karmic fate has fully merited as your birthright from the beginning of time and the earliest plans of your beloved C influence.

    Not all — but many — are like you. You are chasing people out. Is this your job? Well done. You do it better than any on this blog.

    I knew I recognized that voice!

    joseph.granados@gmail.com


  556. Skeptical Optimist 554
    So I guess “Simple Truth” has replaced Siddiq, Howard Carter, et al, MIA.

    JoelF

    ————————-

    His metaphysical self-confidence and wilting articulation of higher relativity is ripping us to shreds.


  557. Traveler, that’s funny! Thanks.
    Simple Truth: “and some times is better to listen higher minds rather than yours.”
    Yes, may be, but how do you know that you’re following a “higher mind”, how can your “low uneducated mind” make a right decision whom to follow or listen to?
    You see, I sincerely thought I was following a certain higher mind, and turnes out it’s just a one sick confused and sexually obsessed mind…
    I’d say – follow your own, whatever you’ve got – mind, heart, conscience. You have it all within and don’t need to follow “higher minds” to be who you are.


  558. JoelF,

    I try to write when I believe I have something worthwhile to say, even if it is obvious from some (not all) reactions that it seems to irritate people like yourself.

    But if you think about it, this blog would not be what it is without current members such as myself standing up for what is personally believed in or experienced. So be happy a few of us are taking the time to be part of the audience as you write.

    When I see clearly childish and reactive posts such as some of your recent ones, I believe they are loaded with false personality and judgment, & I wonder if you can really see yourself.

    This blog can function as a mirror, for those inside the school to be sure, but also for those who believe themselves to fortunate because they have left.

    The best use of this blog is to use it as such

    Good luck!

    Siddiq


  559. on June 12, 2007 at 3:56 am Howard Carter

    Re: JoelF, # 126

    Any discussion regarding the cult status of FoF ought to first address the organizations that list or designate cults – the advisories, watchdog agencies, etc. Who are these individuals and what are their qualifications, motives for getting into the cult watching “profession”?

    If all endeavors were ranked by degree of ease or difficulty, being a cult advisory organization would rank up there among the easiest of pursuits. From what I can see the only criteria for qualifying a religious/spiritual organization as a cult is for the group in question to adhere to a different form of religious expression than the cult advisory agency who is listing it and, second, for the group in question to have produced at least one disgruntled ex-member willing to go on record with claims of some form of abuse. If those two conditions are in place any alternative religious/spiritual entity can safely be called a “cult”.

    To my knowledge there is no organization or board that certifies cult watchers. No license is required to open a cult advisory; only the desire and suitable resources are needed to open shop. I’m also sure that the occupation of cult watcher, like any occupation, attracts its share of charlatans.
    For example, the occupation of policeman would naturally attract people who think it is important to protect law abiding citizens from lawless ones, but because of the nature of the job it also attracts people who are bullies or who enjoy being in the position of exerting force on others. Both kinds of policemen wear the same uniform. Most scout masters or camp counselors enjoy instructing children, who are in their formative years, but unfortunately the jobs also attract their fair share of pedophiles; if you were a pedophile wouldn’t the idea of tucking 11 year old kids into bed appeal to you?

    So what is the allure for getting into the arena of cult watching? The right reasons might include having first hand knowledge of how a cult ruined a family, or even having caused someone’s death; maybe to know or be related to a Branch Davidian who died at Waco for instance.

    But the other side of the coin would seem to attract an individual who is intolerant by nature; someone perhaps who thinks that religious/spiritual groups should all share main stream beliefs, or not be allowed to exist or operate at all. Someone perhaps who is Guru-phobic?

    I would go as far as saying that in today’s politically correct society cult watching is one of the last bastions of accepted bigotry. Not only is it acceptable to rail against cults, but its even admirable to rail against them. The term “cult” has no positive connotations today, no redeeming qualities, and hence is open season for all and any critics.

    One fallacy of the advisories is that they lump everyone under the same broad designation of “cult”; on The Rick Ross Institute’s’ site the Mormon Church gets equal billing as a cult along with Aum Truth, the group who set off saran gas in the Tokyo subway. Interestingly, one of the front runners for the Republican Party’s nomination for president is a Mormon.

    This dubious lumping together is a red flag to me, and points to an obvious lack of discretion on the part of the advisories. Basically, hundreds of law abiding, harmless groups, valid sects, end up on these lists and once on them the damage to reputations/legitimacy begins.

    The most dubious aspect of cult watching organizations revolves around the use of the highly provocative term “brainwashed”. Since the end of the cold war also saw the end of the “Manchurian Candidate” kind of paranoia about brainwashing, the only area where one now hears the term being used is in regard to cults. Are intelligent, reasoning, people expected to believe that only cult leaders have access to some secret switch to the human mind that they can turn on or off at will? The reality is that the term “brainwashing”, as it is bandied about by cult watchers (and some bloggers), is really a common trait among humans and not at all restricted to the cult leader/member relationship.

    The need to bond is one of the strongest human urges, and from day one we have bonded in tribes. These days the choice of “tribes” in which to bond is never ending, but once we select one to join we almost instantly begin to adapt our behavior to accommodate the existing group behavior. (Those with knowledge of the Fourth Way might see this impulse to conform within a group culture as the tip of the iceberg of a large cosmic law called Feminine Dominance.)

    Using the cult watchers standards, the US military is the largest exponent of “brainwashing” now in existence. Who else could get all those farm boys and girls who are in 4H shows walking their prize calf around one day, and are transformed in a few months into an effective killer who has a split second to look an Iraqi in the eye and decide whether to shoot him or let him drive through their check point?

    Cult watchers,(and some bloggers) who are not equipped to see F. D., could at least use the more moderate term “indoctrination” to describe the tip of this F.D. iceberg and perhaps be truthful enough to see that it can occur in any field of endeavor, religious/spiritual or otherwise.

    As applied strictly to cults “brainwashing” simply does not exist, and it most certainly does not exist in the form of someone doing it to us. To the extent it does exist, it comes from the individual, sparked by his/her need to bond and conform.

    The injustice is that this bias in people against cults, fueled by the advisories, is the result of a handful of groups (maybe 10 or so, throughout recent history) who flew under the radar of the watchdog agencies until they self-destructed, leaving the agencies no choice but to overcompensate by deriding the hundreds of relatively harmless and law abiding groups who bear no relationship to the notorious ones. It’s also true to say that the watchdog agencies, for the most part, have come into existence only because of the 10 or so notorious, criminal cults.

    Regarding the FoF, my belief, and I think I can speak for many other students as well, is that we fully expect the school to be listed as a cult. There are no “Esoteric School of Awaking” categories for the watchdog agencies to list us under. Then, we are the only group to actually identify and list the other schools in our tradition, and we would be the only one on any current list. Lastly, if a cult watchdog could actually distinguish a school from a cult he/she would probably join it instead of listing it.

    But for those reading who buy into the “cult” phenomena here are some decidedly un-cult like tendencies of the FoF when compared to the model for a classically evil cult:

    Prior/immediate contact with leader – Cults: most members meet the leader before or shortly after joining when the indoctrination process begins. The leaders of cults have no system of value to offer, only their pervasiveness, so the person to person, leader to member, bond is ever so important.

    FoF: even after joining the school one on one contact with the teacher is rare (reference Elena). I know people in the school 20 or more years who have yet to have a single conversation with RB (excluding comments that one’s tie or dress is lovely when hugging after a dinner). Only a small fraction of the 12,000 total students who have joined the FoF met Robert before joining, most during the first year or so of the school. Going a year or two without meeting him now is common place. I know people who did not lay eyes on him until 5 years after joining. Osho’s cult, the most benign of the group of notorious ones, was also probably the biggest in number, and might be the exception to this rule.

    Size of Organization- Cults: for the reasons stated above cults cannot be too big, as the leader will lose the all important “one to one” manipulation. The Heaven’s Gate cult had 39 members; the B.D.’s had about a 100, Jonestown less than 1000, maybe a third of them children. Charles Manson, 10 to 15.

    FoF – 12,000 total, attendance rarely under 2000 in the last 25 years.

    Lifespan – Cults: as I mentioned in an earlier post 38 years is an unprecedented lifespan for the classic model for cults, but it’s only infancy for a school; we’ll know more about the status of the FoF as time goes by.

    Ease/difficulty in joining/leaving – Cults are easy to join and difficult to leave. They make it easy to stay also; often an isolated commune setting with basic needs taken care of, i.e., a free ride. Most of the Branch Davidians remained cloistered on the complex with just a few going for provisions. The People’s Temple made it practically impossible to leave as they moved to a remote island.

    FoF: Hard to join, hard to stay – pay in advance for first month. Pay as much as 40% of your income if you are in a moderately to low paying job. If on salary work 160 hours a month for $500 – $700. Pay the same rent as those with regular jobs.
    Easy to leave – A blogger from the past said it best – “If you think it’s hard to leave the FoF just try not making your next teaching payment and see how quickly you are out” – a paraphrase.

    Children: Cults: children are assimilated into the cult. David Koresh liked to have sex with them.
    FoF: Children are non-entities. Are not allowed on the property except in restricted circumstances accompanied by adults. Are essentially given no role.

    Open access to public:
    Cults – none – I can picture David Koresh giving a tour to the Waco BBB – “over here you can see the stack of new bibles we had printed, pay no mind to those AK 47s in the corner”. Or Jim Jones flying Tony Bennett in to Guyana to do a “command” performance of “I left my heart in San Francisco” just before the mass deed.

    FoF: daily tours open to public.

    Community relations:
    Cults: Osho’s – poisoned the salad bar of a local restaurant causing several illnesses, tried to contaminate the water supply.
    FoF: Student architect designed the local community center. Just held a crafts fair open to the local public; some of you were there.

    Violence:
    Cults: We only come to know the classic and notorious cults through their final acts of violence; but looking back we see evidence of a trail of preparation preordaining that end.

    FoF: in a much longer time of existence and with a much greater pool of members and much more scrutiny placed on the organization there is no indication of any violence, past, present or future. In that regard the FoF is probably well below the per capita national average.

    There are probably more essential dissimilarities between the FoF and the group of classic cults that all are measured by but these will have to suffice.


  560. on June 12, 2007 at 3:57 am Comic Relief

    Hello, fellow ‘Traveler” (553):

    Your post had me rolling on the floor!

    I posted 557 before I saw your definition of SEQUENCE – honest!

    And it blew me away!

    Your post should be required reading for current and former FoFers if only to demonstrate that the “party line” is never the “private reality”, and that at least one other person has seen what is really “behind the curtain”.


  561. Hey Joel, if people want to post new scandals great, but I want to hear from students new/ex about the current teaching, which up until my posts has been largely kept silent.

    No reasonable person on the spiritual path would accept these teachings if they were not already brainwashed.

    The dead were listed previously in other posts. If you were there you know who they were. They became school heroes, turning to the teaching while desperately clinging to life as they faced death. Several were close friends and acquaintances. They were very sincere students, lovely people that by example encouraged students to work even harder to build the school and work on the sequence.


  562. Simple Truth #551

    Thank you for your post. You are taking a big risk reading and posting on this blog, and I want to congratulate you on your bravery. Your soul is at stake. There are many in the FOF who would not dare look at this for fear of losing the school. But you seem strong in your work, and I admire that.

    If you haven’t already, I highly recommend that you start reading the blog from the very beginning, making it a daily practice, so your posts will not repeat what has already been said before.

    I also want you to know that whatever happens in your work, wherever your work takes you, we here on the blog will not shun you.

    You are welcome to read or post you comments however you want, don’t let the big bullies (in or out) scare you off. As you said, it’s only words and ideas we are throwing around here, not rocks.

    More than likely there are people posting on this blog right now who have been sitting in the very same chair as you are sitting in right now (in more ways than one).

    Please know that if you or anyone you know were to choose to leave the school at some point in the future and needed any assistance, there are many people here on the blog who would help you, if you asked us. Please tell others.

    You could get help here.

    For free.

    That’s the simple truth.


  563. Moon Angel–“No reasonable person on the spiritual path would accept these teachings if they were not already brainwashed.”

    Is your mind made up?

    For me I can say there is a lot that makes sense, and also a lot that does not. I try to keep the door open for more and new understandings. Not easy, but to me far better than judgment about Robert’s interpretations/angles, etc.

    Siddiq


  564. on June 12, 2007 at 4:15 am Was KathleenW

    I hope that those considering posting their own story won’t be discouraged by seeing stories referred to as scandals.

    Not everyone considers these stories scandals.


  565. on June 12, 2007 at 4:19 am 100 Would Not Be Enough

    Siddiq 565
    Moon Angel–”No reasonable person on the spiritual path would accept these teachings if they were not already brainwashed.”

    Is your mind made up?

    For me I can say there is a lot that makes sense, and also a lot that does not. I try to keep the door open…

    —————–

    You might want to keep the backdoor locked.


  566. on June 12, 2007 at 4:22 am Howard Carter

    Have posted re: Cults three times–does not appear.


  567. post 568.

    Can’t you see it’s a SHOCK !!


  568. This may seem a little different from my other posts, but some time ago I was alone in a hotel room, and my mind turned to…oh well…it was not my mind…

    the “Adult Desires” channel was on before I had thrown off my shoes, and by the time I was laying down on my bed, the adult movie had started.

    It was called the Indies500- or some title like that -a famous porn actress was sucking and fucking no less than some 600+ guys in a row–yes, she looked great all the way through and obviously enjoyed the experience tremendously–as did the guys who had flown in from all over the country–there were all sorts, all ages, neatly standing in a row to spend a few minutes to screw the princess. It was HOT!!!!

    Before they got close to the Queen, they had some “fluffers” get them ready–good old rock and roll playing all the while…
    They were interviewed, they were not innner considering, they were there because they wanted to, they did not mind sharing this total Babe–she did not mind, and when she had enough of one, she would simply say “Next” and “NExt” again and again. unbelievable! but True!!!!

    Now if this is shown at the Hilton and in the Marriott, what is wrong with the person who gets to have the “100 is not enough” to do this with him—why is everyone so squeemish about the sex part here? We have a 60+ year old teacher here with his willing friends doing whatever they are doing–now about you all getting on with your lives!

    Best of luck to all!

    Siddiq


  569. Statistics and information on pornography in the USA

    The following statistics, from both secular and religious sources reveal that porn is now as American as Apple Pie, and has found a place in every corner of our society, including the church. The statistics on porn use among Christians are near the end.

    * At 13.3 billion, the 2006 revenues of the sex and porn industry in the U.S. are bigger than the NFL, NBA and Major League Baseball combined. Worldwide sex industry sales for 2006 are reported to be 97 billion. To put this in perspective, Microsoft, who sells the operating system used on most of the computers in the world (in addition to other software) reported sales of 44.8 billion in 2006.
    Internet Filter Review

    * US Sex Industry breakdown for 2006:
    Video Sales and Rentals: 3.62 billion
    Internet: 2.84 billion
    Cable/PPV/In-room/Mobile phone sex: 2.19 billion
    Exotic Dance Clubs: 2 billion
    Novelties: 1.73 billion
    Magazines: .95 billion
    Total – 13.3 billion.
    2005 Sex Industry sales – 12.62 billion
    Internet Filter Review

    * 60% of all website visits are sexual in nature
    MSNBC Survey 2000

    * The No. 1 search term used at search engine sites is the word “sex”. Users searched for “sex” more than other terms such as “games,” “travel,” “music,” “jokes,” “cars,” “weather,” “health” and “jobs” combined. The study also found that “pornography/porno” was the fourth-most searched for subject.
    Alexa Research

    72 million: The approximate number of unique visitors to adult websites in 2006, per month, worldwide.
    420 million: Total number of porn pages.
    40 million: The number of U.S. adults who regularly visit porn websites.
    Internet Filter Review

    * A 2000 MSNBC.com survey found that as many as 80 percent of visitors to sex sites were spending so much time tracking down erotica on the computer that they were putting their real-life relationships and/or jobs at risk. “Until they discovered cybersex, most of these people had no problems with sexual addition”, according to the survey’s author, Al Cooper, a sex therapist at the San Jose Marital Services and Sexuality Center in San Jose, Calif.

    * 77% of online visitors to adult content sites are male. Their average age is 41 and they have an annual income of $60,000. 46% are married.
    Forrester Research Report, 2001

    * In 2001, in a study of 7037 adults, two thirds of those who visit websites with sexual content say their Internet activities haven’t affected their level of sexual activity with their partners, though 75% report masturbating while on line.
    Divorcewizards.com

    * The U.S. Customs Service estimates that there are more than 100,000 websites offering child pornography (which are illegal) worldwide.
    Red Herring Magazine, 1/18/02

    * Hollywood currently releases 11,000 adult movies per year – more than 20 times the mainstream movie production.
    LA Times Magazine, 2002.

    * 39 million homes receive the adult channels in scrambled form, while the number of children with potential exposure to such images is about 29 million
    Morality Continues to Decay. Barna Research Group, November 3, 2003.

    * One in 4 American adults surveyed in 2002 admitted to seeing an x-rated movie in the last year.
    National Opinion Research Letter

    55%: Percentage of Porn movie rentals vs. non-porn movies in hotels in 2005.
    AVN News, State of the Adult Industry

    * The average time a porn movie is watched in a hotel room is 12 minutes.
    Time.com, 3-29-05

    * The average teenager spends three to four hours per day watching television and 83% of the programming most frequently watched by adolescents contains some sexual content.
    Gary Rose, CEO of The Medical Institute, as reported by Focus on the Family 7/8/2005

    * 1/3 of 13 year old boys in Alberta, Canada admitted to viewing porn.
    From a University of Alberta Study, March 2007, as reported by thegatewayonline.ca.

    * 42% of songs on ten top-selling CDs in 1999 contained sexual content, 41% of which were “very explicit” or “pretty explicit.”
    Family News in Focus, July 2005

    * “Last year, Comcast, the nation’s largest cable company, pulled in $50 million from adult programming. All the nation’s top cable operators, from Time Warner to Cablevision, distribute sexually explicit material to their subscribers. But you won’t read about it in their annual reports. Same with satellite providers like EchoStar and DirecTV, which is owned by Hughes Technology, a subsidiary of General Motors.
    How much does DirecTV make off of adult product?
    “They don’t break the number out. But I would guess they’d probably get a couple hundred million, maybe as much as $500 million, off of adult entertainment, in a broad sense,” says Dennis McAlpine, a partner in McAlpine Associates, who has tracked the entertainment industry for over two decades. “I would think it’s probably more than what their overall profit is. The other areas are losing money. That’s making money.”
    Then there are the big hotel chains: Hilton, Marriot, Hyatt, Sheraton and Holiday Inn, which all offer adult films on in-room pay-per-view television systems. And they are purchased by a whopping 50 percent of their guests, accounting for nearly 70 percent of their in-room profits. One hotel owner said, “We have to have it, our guests demand it.”
    From a CBS News Special Report, November 2003

    * “The porn industry employs an excess of 12,000 people in California. In California alone the porn industry pays over $36 million in taxes every year.”
    Bill Lyon, a former lobbyist for the defense industry turned lobbyist for porn, as quoted by CBS News November 2003.

    * In a Kinsey Institute survey, respondents were asked “Why do you use porn?”
    72% said they used porn to masturbate/for physical release.
    69% – to sexually arouse themselves and/or others.
    54% – out of curiosity.
    43% – “because I can fantasize about things I would not necessarily want in real life.”
    38% – to distract myself.

    * “Most girls who enter the porn industry do one video and quit. The experience is so painful, horrifying, embarrassing, humiliating for them that they never do it again.”
    Luke Ford, quoted by CBS News

    * A study of university networks by Palisades Systems found searches for child pornography at 230 colleges nationwide. The research revealed that 42% of all searches on file-to-file sharing systems involved child or adult pornography. The study also found that 73% of movie searches were for pornography, 24% percent of image searches were for child pornography, and only 3% of the searches did not involve pornography or copyrighted materials.
    April 1, 2003 – Des Moines Register

    * 87% of university students are having sex over webcams, instant messenger or the telephone.
    Reuters, Ontario Canada, February 16, 2006.

    * Queen’s University in Belfast conducted a survey of 350 businesses in the U.S., U.K. and Australia for the porn-filtering firm SurfControl. 28% of those questioned said they had downloaded sexually explicit content from the Web while on the job. U.S.-based employees were slightly less likely to do so than workers in other countries. The survey also found abuse to be slightly higher in organizations with more than 500 employees. Of the 31 percent of employees who distributed sexually explicit material from work, 36 percent worked at companies larger than 500 employees; 27 percent worked for companies with 20 employees or less.
    MSNBC 9-6-04

    * In May 2004 Businessweek printed the results of a ComScore Networks survey where 44% of U.S. workers with an internet connection admitted to accessing an X rated website at work in the month of March 2004, as compared to 40% of home users and 59% of University users.

    * More than 30% of 1,500 surveyed companies have terminated employees for inappropriate use of the Internet, while only 37.5% of companies use filtering software.
    Websense Incorporated and The Center for Internet Studies, 2000.

    * 17% of all women struggle with porn addiction
    * 1 of 3 visitors to all adult websites are women
    * 9.4 million women access adult websites every month
    Internet Filter Review

    * 38 percent of adults believe it is ‘morally acceptable’ to look at pictures of nudity or explicit sexual behavior
    Morality Continues to Decay. Barna Research Group, 3 November, 2003.

    * 59 percent of adults believe it is ‘morally acceptable’ to have sexual thoughts or fantasies
    Morality Continues to Decay. Barna Research Group, 3 November, 2003.

    * 38 percent of adults believe there is nothing wrong with pornography use
    Morality Continues to Decay. Barna Research Group, 3 November, 2003.

    * 42 percent of surveyed adults indicated that their partner’s use of pornography made them feel insecure.
    Marriage Related Research, Mark A. Yarhouse, Psy.D. Christian Counseling Today, 2004 Vol. 12 No. 1.

    * 41 percent of surveyed adults admitted they felt less attractive due to their partner’s pornography use.
    Marriage Related Research, Mark A. Yarhouse, Psy.D. Christian Counseling Today, 2004 Vol. 12 No. 1.

    * March 20, 2007: At a men’s summit in Oregon before 2,000 men, Shelley Lubben of Shelley Lubben ministries challenged those who were struggling with porn addiction to stand. 30% rose to their feet. She immediately challenged them a second time, with the result that some 70% were standing.

    * March, 2007: At a small Christian conference in Austria, 75% of the 25 men in attendance admitted to being involved with porn; 50% within the past 6 months.

    * April 6, 2007: 70% of Christians admitted to struggling with porn in their daily lives. From a non-scientific poll taken by XXXChurch, as reported by CNN.

    * August 7,2006: 50% of all Christian men and 20% of all Christian women are addicted to pornography. 60% of the women who answered the survey admitted to having significant struggles with lust; 40% admitted to being involved in sexual sin in the past year; and 20% of the church-going female participants struggle with looking at pornography on an ongoing basis.
    From the results of a ChristiaNet poll reported by Marketwire.com

    * In December of 2000, the National Coalition to Protect Children and Families surveyed 5 Christian Campuses to see how the next generation of believers was doing with sexual purity:
    48% of males admitted to current porn use
    68% of males said they intentionally viewed a sexually explicit site at the school

    * Roger Charman of Focus on the Family’s Pastoral Ministries reports that approximately 20 percent of the calls received on their Pastoral Care Line are for help with issues such as pornography and compulsive sexual behavior.

    * A 1996 Promise Keepers survey at one of their stadium events revealed that over 50% of the men in attendance were involved with pornography within one week of attending the event.

    * In 2000 Christianity Today survey, 33% of clergy admitted to having visited a sexually explicit Web site. Of those who had visited a porn site, 53% had visited such sites “a few times” in the past year, and 18% visit sexually explicit sites between a couple of times a month and more than once a week.

    * Out of 81 pastors surveyed (74 males 7 female), 98% had been exposed to porn; 43% intentionally accessed a sexually explicit website
    National Coalition survey of pastors. Seattle. April 2000.

    * In his book, “Men’s Secret Wars”, Patrick Means reveals a confidential survey of evangelical pastors and church lay leaders. Sixty-four percent of these Christian leaders confirm that they are struggling with sexual addiction or sexual compulsion including, but not limited to use of pornography, compulsive masturbation, or other secret sexual activity.

    * In his book “The Sexual Man”, Dr. Archibald Hart revealed the results of a survey of some 600 Christian men, on the topic of masturbation:
    61% of married Christian men masturbate
    82% of these have self sex on an average of once a week; 10% have sex with self 5-10 times per month, 6% more than 15 times per month, and 1% more than 20 times a
    month.
    13% of Christian married men said they felt it was normal.

    * 34 percent of female readers of Today’s Christian Woman’s online newsletter admitted to intentionally accessing Internet porn in a recent poll.

    * In March of 2002 Rick Warren’s (author of the Purpose Driven life) Pastors.com website conducted a survey on porn use of 1351 pastors: 54% of the pastors had viewed Internet pornography within the last year, and 30% of these had visited within the last 30 days.

    * 47% percent of families said pornography is a problem in their home.
    Focus on the Family Poll, October 1, 2003.

    * In a survey of over 500 Christian men at a men’s retreat, over 90% admitted that they were feeling disconnected from God because lust, porn, or fantasy had gained a foothold in their lives.
    As reported in an article on Pastors.com by Kenny Luck.

    In March 2005 Christianity Today published the results of a study called “Christians and Sex” in their Leadership Journal. 680 pastors and 1,972 laypersons were surveyed, with the following results:
    * 44% of churchgoers want to hear more scriptural teaching from their pastors on the subject of sex.
    * 22% of pastors feel they should spend more time on the topic.
    * 85% of pastors say they speak about sexual issues once a year, while 63% of churchgoers say their pastors do so. Among those churchgoers who say they want their pastors to preach more about sexual issues, 47% say their pastor speaks about it once a year, an even bigger difference of opinion. A CTI analyst was quoted saying “Perhaps this desire for more biblical exposition on sexual issues exists because pastors are not speaking forcefully or clearly enough, while exposure to sexual images and messages in today’s media is ever more heightened.”
    * 57% of pastors say that addiction to pornography is the most sexually damaging issue to their congregation.
    * Almost 9 in 10 pastors reported counseling a layperson on sexual issues once a year or more.

    I had a hard time believing that half the men in the church would really be accessing porn, so early 2004 I asked the church where we attended at the time if they would be willing to take a survey. They agreed, and in the survey we asked the men “when was the last time you looked at pornography?” The church was made up mostly of young families, and the idea that many of the husbands and fathers I sat next to every Sunday were dabbling in porn… I couldn’t comprehend it. Surely, I thought, the numbers would be lower. It can’t be half, not in my church.
    Of those who responded, here’s what came back:
    25% had viewed porn within the past month
    44% within the past 6 months
    61% within the past year


  570. on June 12, 2007 at 5:00 am Different Laws

    Siddiq 570

    Now if this is shown at the Hilton and in the Marriott, what is wrong with the person who gets to have the “100 is not enough” to do this with him—why is everyone so squeemish about the sex part here? We have a 60+ year old teacher here with his willing friends doing whatever they are doing–now about you all getting on with your lives!

    :

    You try conducting yourself like this, Burton would throw you out in a minute.


  571. Siddiq – (570)

    The only catch is that of our hundreds – most think it’s the Will of C Influence, that they’re having an orgasm with God. Not to mention the Code of Secrecy, and many cases of complete exploitation. Your story is interesting – but the deal was 2 sided – they knew she wasn’t God.

    Be well


  572. on June 12, 2007 at 5:01 am Skeptical Optimist

    Re # 567, 568, 569, 570
    This is why you need a moderator.

    JoelF


  573. Maybe more men would speak up if there was a way of keeping the information private.


  574. Different Laws–there is no contradiction

    Red Rain–there is no catch

    things are what they are

    pure, simple, unadulterated

    Siddiq


  575. Now here is a contradiction:

    Vena–Maybe more men would speak up if there was a way of keeping the information private.

    If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one around…


  576. on June 12, 2007 at 5:16 am Simple truth

    “A thought arises in the mind, the result of demonic control. Its basic motive is to break down “good order.”(prolonged presence) [Shah Waliullah of Delhi]

    “When a person is subservient to the passions of his lower self, he needs dedication to the practice of remembrance.” [Al-Jilani]

    “The best jihad (holy war) is to fight against the desires and temptations of the lower self.” [Mohammed]

    “He in whom the passions are totally uprooted and destroyed, that person attains peace of mind by day and by night.” [Buddha]

    You must observe yourselve.
    Is School work to detect, and to control the King of Clubs in Our selves.

    If this is not enough, nothing it will


  577. on June 12, 2007 at 5:21 am Different Laws

    Siddiq 567

    Different Laws–there is no contradiction

    :

    If it is so acceptable for Burton then why can’t the students conduct themselves in the same way? The men and women in the school each having sex with hundreds of partners – it might wake them up too. As has been reported on this blog if they have sex with even three at a time Burton throws them out. Why?

    You are living in your own self-justifying world where everything Burton does is of a higher order, but meanwhile you would be sent to king-of-clubs-hell if you did the same sorts of things. How do you explain that to yourself?


  578. A lot of good tips here about the work!

    Aging Does Not End Sex, Relationships, Says Expert

    Sex isn’t the exclusive playground for the young, but a quality of life issue that continues well after age 50, a University of Michigan expert says in her new book. Older adults desire fun, excitement and passion in relationships and sex, often associated with one’s younger years.

    However, the stigma in the culture and lack of education about sexuality contribute to less openness and awareness among senior citizens and many Baby Boomers, says Sallie Foley, an adjunct professor in the School of Social Work.

    “People are hungry for practical advice in dating and sex, as well as resolving long-standing arguments,” Foley said.

    She offered six guidelines to vitality in relationships in her book:

    • Live a life of connections. “Even if a perfect love eludes you, making sure that you have a wallet full of photos of family and friends will give meaning to your life,” she said.

    • Don’t be afraid to try something new. If you continue to see yourself as an adventurer, or if you’ve never taken a risk to try new things, now’s the time. “After 50, exactly what are you waiting for?”

    • Expect your relationships to be like your car. No matter how much time and care you devote to your vehicle, it still occasionally breaks down and always needs maintenance. Relationships are like that, too. “Sometimes, things will not go your way even in the best of relationships,” she said.

    • Abandon either/or thinking. Life is complex, and thinking in rigid yes and no categories will often fail you. In order to respond to relationships and their complexity, think of diversity, plurality and many possible solutions to a problem. “If you think of 10 different ways to handle a problem, none will be perfect,” she said. “Perfect is part of either/or thinking.”

    • Take time to celebrate. Ask people what they love about life and they’ll tell you it’s the very ordinariness of life that is spectacular about living. After a crisis, what really counts is the restoration of normalcy.

    • Love. “This is where the words end and life begins—in loving,” Foley said. “When you’re loving, you relinquish the need for perfection and focus on what’s real.”

    More health care workers, such as doctors and therapists, offer guidance and dialog with older patients by initiating conversations about healthy sexual functioning and also the risk of sexually transmitted diseases. Foley said older adults are at high risk for contracting STD’s because they don’t use condoms, thinking they’re beyond the need for contraception.

    Foley said people over 50 face similar challenges, such as overcoming fears of rejection, as their younger counterparts when it involves dating or dealing with long-term relationships. “Life never stops being complex for older adults. It’s sometimes drama-ridden, but never ever dull,” she said.

    Today’s older Americans are active, whether it’s working a full-time job, volunteering at non-profit organizations or traveling throughout the country, Foley stated. “They see themselves as a vital, active resource, and they don’t want life passing them by,” she said.


  579. Simple truth 578

    “Is School work to detect, and to control the King of Clubs in Our selves.

    If this is not enough, nothing it will”

    You are a programmed FOF machine, there nothing actually there behind the memorized lines. You’ve never been present in your life. You are a sheep waiting to be skinned and eaten.

    This is the relationship between you and your teacher:

    “There is an Eastern tale which speaks about a very rich magician who had a great many sheep. But at the same time this magician was very mean. He did not want to hire shepherds, nor did he want to erect a fence about the pasture where his sheep were grazing. The sheep consequently often wandered into the forest, fell into ravines, and so on, and above all they ran away, for they knew that the magician wanted their flesh and skins and this they did not like.
    “At last the magician found a remedy. He hypnotized his sheep and suggested to them first of all that they were immortal and that no harm was being done to them when they were skinned, that, on the contrary, it would be very good for them and even pleasant; secondly he suggested that the magician was a good master who loved his flock so much that he was ready to do anything in the world for them; and in the third place he suggested to them that if anything at all were going to happen to them it was not going to happen just then, at any rate not that day, and therefore they had no need to think about it. Further the magician suggested to his sheep that they were not sheep at all; to some of them he suggested that they were lions, to others that they were eagles, to others that they were men, and to others that they were magicians.
    “And after this all his cares and worries about the sheep came to an end. They never ran away again but quietly awaited the time when the magician would require their flesh and skins.”


  580. Simple truth, you are an automaton.

    Siddiq, what the hells goin on. you sound like you’re losing it.


  581. on June 12, 2007 at 5:36 am good lovin'

    let me try to answer on behalf of Siddiq 567 to Different Laws–there is no contradiction

    are you complaining? you that are posting on this blog, you did not ask RB for permission, did you? Do you before having sex? Who needs permission from anyone to live their life?

    you write….

    If it is so acceptable for Burton then why can’t the students conduct themselves in the same way?

    who says they cannot?

    The men and women in the school each having sex with hundreds of partners – it might wake them up too.

    show me anyone who has tried…

    As has been reported on this blog if they have sex with even three at a time Burton throws them out. Why?

    not true…a leave of absence was given to one person who was deeply involved in wrong work emotionally and taking lots of space–she is welcome back!

    You are living in your own self-justifying world where everything Burton does is of a higher order

    no way!

    but meanwhile you would be sent to king-of-clubs-hell if you did the same sorts of things. How do you explain that to yourself?

    here you go here is an answer: because the people involved did not have the being to be real, it is as simple as that.

    Try it (waking up) it is not as easy as it looks!


  582. 11/555 Bruce says: (Re: 11/553) “If there was anything I would want to distribute to FOF members it would be your great and noble document.”

    Distribute away. I copyleft it :)

    11/570 Siddiq says: “Why is everyone so squeamish about the sex part here? We have a 60+ year old teacher here with his willing friends doing whatever they are doing…”

    I think there should be a FAQ page somewhere on this site…

    Good night!


  583. on June 12, 2007 at 5:44 am Different Laws

    good lovin’ 583

    “here you go here is an answer: because the people involved did not have the being to be real, it is as simple as that.”

    You mean according to Burton. He has the being but when one of the women has sex with a couple of his boys she doesn’t have the being. Don’t you see how hard you have to twist your brain to explain to yourself that this all makes sense?


  584. Hey folks just checking in, judging from the recent posts, my contribution is not needed!!!!

    LOL

    PS Traveler, you should write the FAQ you have the talent dude!


  585. Siddiq, (if this is the Siddiq I am used to read) what is your point with all the porno stats? and your story at the hotel?

    It seems an attempt to minimize or even rationalize what your teacher has been doing for decades, so we should leave him alone and go on with our lives while he continues to betray his students.
    I would be gladly leave him alone and think of him as another sex addict among the millions in the world.

    But RB is not an harmless guy, you know that.
    What is pure and unadulterated?


  586. 583 good lovin

    think twice please before post informations that you don’t really know. This is the main attitude of the FOF build lies and sell them as great thruth.

    The “she” that you are talking about tried to re enter in the FOF several times, but anytime was said to her that RB has not taken a decision yet, this happened between july 2006 and december 2006. At the end she just stop asking. So RB does not want that she could create “problem” in his entourage and kikked her out of the school, dear good loving be careful to what you do maybe tomorrow if you are so open with this idea of the sex will be your turn to beeng asked to leave, because C influence wants it.


  587. re 570 and 571–Sounds to me like this was written by someone trying to justify a porno addiction–hmm.

    Christina


  588. on June 12, 2007 at 6:56 am Skeptical Optimist

    It looks to me like a lot of these recent posts are bogus. What do you think?

    JoelF


  589. We are going to view our experience from a conceptual framework even if that framework is that there is no conceptual framework.
    We experience “something” and if we are christian it must be christ, if buddhists it is buddha mind, if hindu whatever it is that hindus experience.
    In the fourth way it is higher centers, consciousness, conscience, whatever. It is called objective by some but to me it is the truly subject-ive, but why argue oranges and oranges.
    It is always intellectual, conceptual that interprets so you better get the biggest framework possible.
    It is so simple. Esoteric: Stuff you can’t see until you see it- right in front of you- where it has always been.
    Man cannot do, he lives in imagination-identification, has five lower centers etc., etc.. Throw it away.
    There are two stools. One is where we belong and the other is red-hot. Is there a choice here?


  590. Siddiq,
    great comparison between Robert and a porn star. It might give him the idea that he should be paid for his performance. Next thing His Highness is going to ask that the poor russians to pay for their privilege(they may leave at that point tough). Matter of fact I’m surprised He hasn’t done it yet.
    Great thinking!
    Of course the fact that the present teaching revolve around controlling the passions (a.k.a. the lower self-instinctive center). So how do you justify Him having sex with 15-20 guy(for free right now) a day (conservative estimate, believe me, no more proof please) and the students not showing their teeth as an indication of the lower self!
    Students are supposed to control their smiles and He can do what He wants.
    I forgot, He so high above us, doesn’t need to do what He says. He never did, but at least once functions and conscience were separated, now they are the same thing. It seems to me that He should control his passions first.

    To Isis fencesitter,
    first of all, how big is this fence and how many people are there? Are you your own group?
    Anyway, I’m not sure why you want to know my reason to do or not do something with His Highness, it doesn’t matter what my personal reasons were. The only thing you need to know is the R. does what he does and definetely doesn’t care if the student can actually digest or process the experience. Some of the guys that went with him were at their first experience with a man or a woman! R. was the first experience for them.
    Many of the young people left the school because it was the only way for them to stop traveling with R. I know the fof’ers will say that it was their choice. But then try to be a young solar-lunar(sorry for the language!) and resist your super-dominant teacher, very experienced in bending (figuratevely) people will …..
    As he said to someone (still traveling with him now) 13 years ago, that was trying to stop traveling after I stopped: “You are a gift from Influence C to me, don’t ever ask me again to stop, take a week off and come back”. His choice of course, but with a lot of manipulation. This guy was at the time specialized in counting 44 things of everything, it’s easier for him now, just 6 and 4, thank god that guy finally had a break!
    A.


  591. on June 12, 2007 at 7:16 am Absolutely Perfect

    592

    Foolofit, thank you. You have given me the clearest picture of the FOF yet.

    This is priceless. This is your school. How can anyone still paying money to this crank take himself seriously? You are not evolving, you are a sinking ship of complete fools.


  592. on June 12, 2007 at 7:55 am for the Best_1

    #553 -Traveler,

    You should have received quite of few photographs to be able to elaborate so well your Devil’s Dictionary.

    Finally a practical and pragmatic approach of the FOF teaching!

    By the way, you could add the term “photograph”, I let you this job, you will do it much better than me.

    Aline


  593. Foolofit) 592 wrote:

    Of course the fact that the present teaching revolve around controlling the passions (a.k.a. the lower self-instinctive center). So how do you justify Him having sex with 15-20 guy(for free right now) a day (conservative estimate, believe me, no more proof please) and the students not showing their teeth as an indication of the lower self!
    ====================================
    Ah-ha-haha! Good point.


  594. Dear Joel,
    I agree, the goons are back and Siddiq just morphed again.
    It’s like a Hitchock movie.
    Witch one is Linda TooSilly, maybe all of them?
    Love,
    Ryan


  595. Reply to Posts #553/11, #551/11, #570/571/11

    Wow, I take a nap and come back to find Siddiq refining the Fellowship of Friends level of porn-being.

    Siddiq,

    You’re joking right? It must have been some sort of subconscious reaction to Traveler’s post #553/11. Yes, sex sells, so, what’s new? Relatively speaking, that statistical mish-mash can be applicable to any age of humanity, Catholic Church, Rome, Egypt, slave trade, etc.

    BTW… Take a peek through the keyhole of those Pharaohs, you can bet they had their own version of Techno Rave.
    _______________________

    Now, really Siddiq, where’s your mother at times like this?

    Siddiq, you wrote this at the start of your strapping yourself into what would become, only for you, a raucously
    self calming bumper car ride ~

    “the “Adult Desires” channel was on before I had thrown off my shoes, and by the time I was laying down on my bed, the adult movie had started.”

    This reminds me of Robert Earl Burton’s first lie to his first student about his celibacy:

    octaves often end as they begin my friend and yours is no different, it begins with a lie and will end with one.

    Every alpha male knows that you have to pay for those videos, even if they are complimentary, no hotel in the litigious west would just have those movies ‘streaming’ as the television is turned on: imagine someone’s 7 year old son or daughter finding such, simply by turning on the TV, the Hilton would be sued out the wazoo for liable…

    Are you not simply buffering the fact that you chose to watch it by making us ‘initially’ think ‘it just happened to you’,

    which, for me, simply removes any possibility that your posts are sincere and meaningful for anyone, but yourself and of course those Fellowship of Friends students who use the phrase ‘man cannot do, it just happens’ to buffer and judge themselves with tongue in cheek and relative awakening in tow.

    Do yourself a favor, since you’re so inclined to be the scholar of the infra-sex side of the spiritual contradiction, go do some research on what else one might do with one’s sexual fluids and sex energy than reinstating in the alpha psyche the image of free dominance, free power, free rape and free abuse (oh, and free speech).

    Nothing is for free: that ‘indy 500’ woman resides in you:

    what are you doing in your life these days that would justify accepting such a visual impression as ‘normal’ and healthy?

    There is always something synonymous happening in one’s inner life that invests in infra-sex ‘a belief’ or ‘value for’ and releases its ‘offering’ as a self-calming habit, reinforcing certain very deep ‘buffers’.

    You might say that each center’s placement upon the human being (body) is synonymous with the depth it is used by the painbody to buffer and feed ‘certain thoughts, attitudes and ‘beings’ of oneself’.

    Thoughts (Intellect), the most superficial level of buffering.
    Gestures (Moving), the second, (tugging at one’s throat, scratching one’s head, playing with one’s hair while not wanting to listen, etc.)
    Emotional, the third… I think this blog is example enough.
    Instinctive, the fourth…
    Sex center, the fifth…

    See? The depth of the buffers hit rock bottom at the sex center, this is how it is that your Fellowship of Friends cannot bridge this interval its in, for it was begun at one and has never bridged it, covering it up with form and the convenient proximity of ‘real students of the fourth way’ to an imaginary teacher of its premises and principles,

    which, at the get go are concerned most with right work of centers, the sex center being the one Robert Burton has yet to ‘get to’, so to speak. He cannot, did not, will not, at least not in the form of a school that has been built up around ‘thinking’ that if you turn the human body upside down ‘rock bottom’ is not bottom anymore, lol, the sludge just goes to your head then, your post is a good example of this spiritual condition of ostrich-ness.

    Gurdjieff mentioned in “Beelzebub’s Tales to His Grandson”, that ~

    “Your sexual fluids are the most precious thing you have.”

    Imagine, (maybe not imagine), sense, within the entirety of that incredible achievement of a book, written by such an enormous being as he and his experiences,

    that he chooses to point to one thing as being the “most precious”… How is that? Go figure it out… Be it, it will figure you.

    Not acknowledging this one aspect that Gurdjieff proposed is one of the Top 3 reasons that the Fellowship of Friends is failing; one could write another book on this subject alone… Gurdjieff tried and stopped before he died, he was working on a book titled ~

    “The care and maintenance of the Astral Body.”

    This is something Robert Burton knows nothing about, otherwise he would refrain from teaching his lovers infra sex techniques to achieve ‘above conscience’ King of Clubs states and handing out Viagra to buffer the emotional inability (connection with conscience) to get an erection for such nonsensical indulgences and essence (feeling) compromising submission to his aims, his only.

    For me, your post is an incredible ‘shock’, it shows me something of what you sense is ‘important’, you put allot of sex energy in collecting all those self-calming justification statistics, yet, again, they are only for you.

    It also shows me how desperate The Fellowship of Friends have become, that someone like yourself would collage such a stew and call it ‘dinner time’…

    Wow, my friend, my heart goes out to your chained up soul, I will do my best to assist in sending out a ‘certain something’ to look into this impasse that you are most certainly showing us you have arrived at.

    There are four things a spiritual seeker can do at a cross roads ~

    1. Take a left, right or straight ahead ‘turn’.
    2. Walk backwards.
    3. Get crucified.
    4. Call for your private jet.

    Scotty, ‘Don’t beam me up just yet, I’ve just seen something I’ve gotta look into, me.’

    __________________________________

    Reply to Traveler Post #553/11

    Hey Traveler, nice, I like….

    Hope you don’t mind me bridging the si-do of your posting of the alphabetical order, being that the X, Y, and Z are missing.

    X – The first sound pronounced syllable in the phrase
    ‘Ex-student’, connoting two distinct interpretations:
    one, is that odd self loathing which occurs when
    thinking of the earth-crazed-stigma of ex-wife and
    ex-husband. Second, X-men, a class of highly gifted
    persons with supernatural powers, yet to be
    harnessed due to a great amount of naiveté, wrong
    work of sex center and the quick American impulse to
    go out and either get some or kick some ass.

    Y – The first sound heard from magnetic center’s asking of
    ‘why?’, soon to be buffered by such self-calming
    words and phrase as ‘because, shit happens, go
    figure, its not my play, its tha moon, meteor showers,
    I’m your father, I’m your teacher, I’m your mother,
    the lower cannot see the higher, be the question,
    God wills it, Satan wills it, got me and its not your
    role.’

    Z – The sound connoting the first slate of sleep, a state
    that many spiritual teachers say that Ouspensky’s
    book ‘The Fourth Way’ induces. Too, it is often
    associated with the sound a ‘Bee’ makes as it enters
    the ear canal to deposit its stinger and a portion of its
    corresponding abdomen, thusly, unknowing to most,
    dieing at the feet of the participant in said ‘Bee
    shock’, similar to what occurs to one’s conscience
    after reading The Fellowship of Friends Blog and
    afterwards the reader thanking the blog’s existence
    for having reminded he, her or it, to write this months
    ‘teaching payment’ (donation) check to FOF, which if
    left unpaid for three months of more automatically
    removes you from ‘the hammock’.

    _________________________________

    Love to you all.


  596. on June 12, 2007 at 8:39 am Another perspective

    I would like to draw attention to the existence of a list featuring hundreds of conscious beings, including 36 from Robert’s old list of the 44. The exact level of consciousness (or point of evolution reached at point of death) for about 950 well known individuals from both ancient and modern times is given. Examples from the list: Walt Whitman, Michel de Montaigne and Miguel Cervantes reached the exact same point of evolution/Gurdjieff, Goethe and Albert Einstein exact same point/Mozart and Rembrandt same point/Shakespeare and Francis of Assisi same point. The point of evolution of some individuals who would not be considered ‘conscious’ is also listed, such as Elvis and Marilyn Monroe. Mostly men on the list but a few women too: Elizabeth I, Maria Montessori and Mary Magdalene to give some examples.

    If someone is looking for a whole new perspective on conscious beings perhaps this list could be of interest.

    To be found in the book Maitreya’s Mission, vol III by Benjamin Creme, page 618-681. (Amazon will have it.)


  597. Cult behavior is not restricted to the FOF, or to religion, by any means. Many corporations have a history similar to the ‘cults’ in remarkable ways; it is not uncommon to hear jokes in the office about “not drinking the koolaid”, i.e. swallowing the party line, hook line & sinker. Enron is a good example.
    We think, though, that its ok that corporations foster the kind of ethics we otherwise associate with what we call cults; we even admire it.

    I hear that current students have the experience these days of being embarassed to say “yes” when encountering former students and being asked “are you still In?”. in the same vein, who would proudly put “Enron” on their resume?

    re: Joseph G’s post:
    This experience, the one Joseph G was referring to, is not a one-time phenomenon. Stifling the “lower self” results in a crowd of body-snatcher King of Clubs automatons: the ever-so-visible Shadow of the group.
    WWJD – What Would Jesus Do if confronted with this? He would crack a joke, I suspect. He would heckle the crowd. He would crack open a beer in Arthur’s driveway.


  598. I’m going to make a prediction:

    (1980) Renaissance: commemorating Italy,14th century
    (1990) Apollo: commemorating Greece, 550 BC
    (2000) Isis: commemorating Egypt, 380 BC
    (2005) Bedrock: commemorating France, 15,000 BC

    Fred Flintstone


  599. Dear Foolofit,
    “As he said to someone (still traveling with him now) 13 years ago, that was trying to stop traveling after I stopped: “You are a gift from Influence C to me, don’t ever ask me again to stop, take a week off and come back”.

    Thanks for this in that it releases the last vestige of faith I held in someone I once regarded as a teacher.
    I’ve read every post here and been shocked close to nausea by many, this one though confirms every worse fear about Burton.
    What a sick f–k!
    RYAN.
    p.s. I know who you are and I know some of your story so there is no doubt for me in what you write.


  600. In Memoriam:

    Gary Burge – joined in Seattle in 1973 or ’74, died near Philadelphia (?) in a car accident in 1976 or ’77.

    Mark H.
    mkhovila@yahoo.com
    FOF member 1973-78


  601. on June 12, 2007 at 9:25 am Crouching Tiger

    Dear All,

    One noticeable element about recent posts in particular may seem almost too obvious to mention… Comparing a lot of the thoughts given by current members and ex-members, you wouldn’t choose too many current fofers for friends, would you? Generally speaking there seems more tolerance and less judgment from among the ex-fofers. Even friend Siddiq seems to have blown a fuse lately!

    One of my best friends in the Fellowship visited Isis recently for a few weeks. Normally we have a lot of fun together and the times we spend in each other’s company are memorable even by School standards of ‘presence’. During that time she was away, I noticed how much her behaviour changed (via email/telephone)… She suddenly started demanding we behave more ‘from the kings’ (have less fun) and more ‘intentionally’ (more shame please!) towards one another. When I took a step back from her underlying tone-of-voice, I realized it was just disguised negativity and judgment-making. It was very similar to many of the pro-Fof posters here recently. A sense of Scale need never be used as an excuse for judgment.

    In my experience the King of Hearts is not short of either warmth or compassion and it’s principal attribute is the ability to deal with everything and everyone at their own level. This also means having a sense of humour about oneself!

    Thankfully she has now returned and everything has gone back, or rather forward to ‘wonderful-normal’…!


  602. I am reposting the following post on conscience as another example of the arrogant attitude that the FOF tolorates in its so called intellectuall development. For me the only appropriate tense for stating ones personal opinion is the first person. As in “My experience” The is a vast quantity of theoretical material some of very high quality. It is a waste of each others time to post theory. Especially in the very popular “one who know’s manner ” I will tell you outright, I neither believe I am right about everything or even all that much and I don’t care too much whether you believe what I say. I have paid too dearly for my own life experience and it is one of the few things that makes what I have too offer unique and valuble. It is a shame that what is other wise a useful idea becomes warped when it is presented as a theoretical rather than practical idea. Practicaly Conscience like consciousness can only be experienced individually. Theory can help shape our attitudes. Right thinking leads to right attitudes. What ever you , think, feel, sense, where ever you are is perfect and you are perfect and it is always the right time to begin again.

    on 09 Jun 2007 at 6:53 pm327 Conscience
    No one with a real conscience loses sight of the fact that they are not complete, that they do not posses self-consciousness, that what they call “me” is a mass of contradicting personalities that come and go in reaction to events and inner moods. No one with a real conscience believes that he already has will and understands himself. No one with a conscience feels positive about the fact that he doesn’t actually remember himself. Conscience means not lying to yourself at the deepest level. Something is wrong with a man as he exists in typical life, he is asleep. A man asleep can have no conscience, he only has the buffers he uses to justify his tenuous sense of self-assurance. Any man that comes to the conclusion that he does not need to work on himself has lost any hope of coming under the influence of conscience.


  603. The Sheik mentioned above how limiting work language is.
    Maurice Nicoll wrote extensivily about the transformational power the work ideas as presented in the language of the system have. He also developed the idea of “metonia” or a change in ones thinking as an important aspect of development. Through the language of the system Dr. Nicoll was able to interprett information in the new testement in a uniques way. Rodney Collin did the same with more scientific technical terms. Dr. Nicoll also