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The Fellowship of Friends Discussion, part 1(6)

Boys and girls, welcome to the 16th rebirth of the Fellowship of Friends discussion, may you find what you seek for.

For previous parts click on home.

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577 Responses

  1. subjective morality (around) 490

    There are laws. And your understanding of morality is not the only understanding there is. Look at the Nature! Rooster basically rape chickens. And they peck to death weak and sick ones. And do you know how many people on Earth throwing themselves to their bosses for promotion? Billions! It’s not too unusual. It DOES occur. Manipulation of boys to get them in bed? Please! What woman does not manipulate a man with her sex energy to get into a relationship with her? Manipulation, coercion in one form or another exists all the time. And now you want to “hang” one man for it? It’s a joke!

    ***********************

    “Rooster basically rape chickens”…so it must follow that if your Man Number 7 teacher uses his position, your imagination about trust and projection of nobility, your vulnerability and innocence and the carefully cultivated psychotic atmosphere indoctrinated into 2000 cult lunatics to coerce you into sexual activity that you do not want to engage in then any psychological pain and suffering you might experience over the years is simply your feminine dominance hang-ups.

    This is the brand of higher conscience the Fellowship of Friends instills in its membership.


  2. 490 subjective morality

    Wow. Thats a very weird post.


  3. #500 Bullshit Meter

    Yes, you are right. She probably will wind up in a mental institution. She has a history of mental illness, depression, and suicide attempts.

    Those who bait her — and those who encourage her tirades for their own motives — bear some responsibility.

    Shame on you all.


  4. “The twice born is found between two paths, the path of the right, and the path of the left. Whosoever decides to dissolve the ego takes the path of the right in order to be converted into an Ineffable Being. Those who do not decide to dissolve the ego take the path of the left, and they convert themselves into diabolical beings.”

    “In order to incarnate the Real Being, one must build the solar bodies by means of the transmutation of Hydrogen SI-12. However, when reaching this state, one must dissolve the ego in order not to be converted into a HANASMUSS with a double center of gravity.”

    “A HANASMUSS is someone who has built the solar bodies but who has not passed through the philosophical death of the Masters, and so in this way the HANASMUSS polarizes as an individual with a double center of gravity. Thus the HANASMUSS has two personalities, one angelic personality and the other, a demonic personality.”

    “A HANASMUSS is a master of the Black Lodge and of the White Lodge. In the East some sects give the name of Marat/Marut to these beings and some Mohammedan sects worship them. HANASMUSS did work in the Forge of the Cyclops ( influence “C”, single “I” ) but they did not dissolve the ego. They are abortions of the Cosmic Mother, a failed project.”

    Samael Aun Weor
    “The Initiatic Path”


  5. She’s among friends here, Jeremy. We’re all working some things out, Elena included. My attitude about the blog is that a lot of healing is going on — healing from our own mistakes and weaknesses, and also healing from what we experienced in the Fellowship due to the mistakes and weaknesses of others. It’s not a smooth process.


  6. on July 22, 2007 at 11:24 pm Skeptical Optimist

    15/516 Laura

    BTW, has anyone here seen the latest Harry Potter yet (Now Showing at a Theater near You)?
    My children dragged me to see it and I kept having weird deja-vus thoughout. It was so good it was scary. Please someone help me and tell me I am not going crazy too!

    I saw it and it was pretty good, although if I had not read the book I’m not sure I would have followed the story very well. Didn’t have any deja-vus, tho. Although I have no way of knowing, I sense you’re probably not “going crazy.”

    Just read Deathly Hallows yesterday. Fantastic finish to the series. Do you read the books?

    JoelF


  7. 481 Shelley M
    Another playwright you might check out is Thornton Wilder. Strangely enough he actually met Gurdjieff.
    ________________________________________________
    Maybe not so strange. Gurdjieff caused quite a buzz among the New York literati when he first went to New York in 1924. He made the rounds of the literary salons, some of which were later transformed into Gurdjieff study groups by Orage. Wilder was attending Princeton around this time, so he would have been in the area. I don’t know if he actually met Gurdjieff at this time but he visited him in France a few years later after he was a published author.


  8. Skeptical Optimist 6
    Dear Skeptical Optimist, my Harry Potter deja-vus had a lot to do with what horahkti is referring to in his post above, the whole hasnasmuss catastrophy. Just a lot of symbolic material connected to the things we have been talking about. The book is very good, and I really enjoyed seeing it on the big screen. A few years ago, I participated to a series of discussions on cinema with a Jungian therapist, during which he “unlocked” the psychoanalitic symbolism of various movies, from Mulholland Drive to Crimes and Misdemeanors. Since then, I have a lot of respect for the medium and its potential for the expression of deep inner truths. Sometimes even big Hollywood productions have the ability, when viewed with an humble mind, to help us connect to something deep within ourselves, our indomitable childish nature, still amazingly full of wonder and innocence. A magic we are trying to recreate on this blog, to resurrect the living dead through the touch of our collective divine madness.
    As for the book, I’ll have to wait for my daughter Julia to finish it, she’s almost done.

    Elena, I madly loved your last post. Keep flying high! And if you have to land, I pray for soft pillows to embrace you. Some of our best poets have been to insane asylums, and you know what? They have also made their way out! These ignoramus have probably never heard of spiritual emergence and emergency, I suspect they only use google to look out for sequences of poo.


  9. on July 23, 2007 at 2:01 am Simple Truth

    To Be Present is the main thing, that we do in the FOF.
    and thats all.


  10. To Living The Question, 508.

    Sorry I can not surprise you and you are right that I do not have that access to records nor would I wish to. But neither do the critics, so on one hand we all just subjective. I am not looking at things that detailed but in a general way. I have been in the FOF almost 20 years and have worked with administration as well as Robert directly. I am familiar in the general way of the way things are run at Isis. I do not agree with everything, but at the end of the day I feel things are being managed efficently and legally. The FOF has made mistakes in the past and still do but they make the best possible effort to follow the law.

    Robert puts a majority of the funds collected from it’s members into building a more beatiful estate for it’s members and our community. If this were not the case I would not be in this School. Some may disagree and that is OK, we all have our different thresholds.

    I think this is a conscious school for I try to use the tools given to me by the form and the teacher. It is beautiful to be in this school with so many students who have a common aim; and to have a Teacher who is supporting this. If ones’s aims change or one cannot transform the injustices that they feel then they leave as so many have on this blog. It is Robert’s task to promote this school and he does it in a way he sees fit and it is my opinion it is not from greed as many on this blog expound.

    The way in which you present the car situation I would have to say is not exactly true; I will not argue that there is no truth to it but it hardly happens in that way. Again, I do not have the records, but basically Robert may help a friend with a car, or if he buys a car it is connected to some job at Isis. He once lent me a few hundred to get a car, and this was out of his own money. I have known Robert for many years and have had my share of friction with him, but like him, I transform it, have patience and love and something more beatiful comes forth. Our teacher is a human being so he is not flawless and it is my feeling he makes efforts more than anyone I have known to “be present” and to establish harmony with his students. And he also makes the effort to relentlessly teach to his students this concept, “To Be”.


  11. on July 23, 2007 at 2:10 am Simple Truth

    To Be Present is the main thing, that we do in the FOF.
    and thats all.

    The parts of centers are naive to the fact that they are being used by the king of clubs to displace presence.

    It is school work to detect and control the King of Clubs.

    Do not be naive.
    resist to the most mechanical reactions like negative emotions, and imagination.


  12. on July 23, 2007 at 2:27 am Simple Truth

    horahkti you are very identified, and you look like a real Hasnamus.
    Diabolical beings? ja
    in the work, bad is that is not useful to be present, and good is that help us to be present, i think we have many I´s that are not interested in presence, be aware of that.
    Devil and diabolic are those I´s. observe your queen of diamonds.

    words words words, try to stop your thoughts for a moment this will provide you the right atmosphere in order for to be present.


  13. Having read up to the third post by Jeremy.

    You all make me laugh greatly, is that what they say in the fellowship since I left or what you´ve decided on this blog? That I am absolutely crazy!

    What an honour. Have I met the qualifications for madness?

    My goodness, I´ve finally qualified at something in the standards of the fellowship of Friends but I would sincerely enjoy hearing from you where this rumors came from.

    Was it from my husband who mentioned such things to make students think that everything I was saying was just because I was mad when I started writing on the blog so that he could undermine the effects?

    Or the gay people because I said being gay is the worst identification one could live with?

    Or Unoanimo who cannot decide whether I am welcomed or a hipocrite and should look for a Shaman to take the devil out of me?

    Just so that you know how mad I really am I’ll tell you myself and try to be as brief as possible so that when you say or hear such things you can have some relativity.

    I tried to commit suicide when I was twenty five years old by jumping from a balcony head down. I broke my skull in two places, inside, behind the eyes, had to learn to walk again and saw double after that.

    I did it because I had been feeding unnecessary suffering for twenty years after my mother committed suicide when I was almost nine years old. When I survived, it was very clear to me that I had wasted twenty years feeding unnecessary suffering and that I wanted to live. I did not use those terms at the time but it was perfectly clear any way.

    It took two years to keep, somewhat under control, the I that was extremely violent. I don´t know about other people who commit suicide, but the problem is very clear to me because once one has developed an I that is willing to do it, then keeping it under control is very difficult. I tried once more without results and never tried again but the I lurks around one and any thing too exciting tends to bring it out. For two years I sat under a great leaf and held myself still so that it would not show up at any turn of my emotions. I mean this emotionally. In actual practice, I married, had another child and continued to raise my children who are both two beautiful human beings without anything so extreme.

    The marriage failed four years later as I had started to read the workbooks and I joined the fellowship after two months traveling to London with my two daughters to look for a school. The work worked. The non expression of negative emotions and self remembering slowly strengthened the I and depression moved away consistently. So did boredom and other similar emotions that are closely related to depression. Depression is to me an I that is hardly remembered, a “depressed” I and that is precisely why self remembering can help a great deal with depression. I have consistently spoken against the use of anti depressants for depression so common in the fellowship, when the discussion group existed.

    I was intensely motivated by Robert Burton´s teaching for seventeen years and deeply greatfull. I knew that practicing the work had helped me heal an enormous deal. I concentrated mostly in the non expression of negative emotions, non identification and unnecessary talk. I was on my own for two and half years with my children in London, then moved to Renaissance with them, bought a house and worked in the Lewis Carroll School, moved to Colombia and directed a tourist magazine for four years, opened a fellowship center with students who still, many, belong to the fellowship, then opened a restaurant for two and traveled back to Renaissance where I’ve been living for six years.

    During those years in Colombia I much struggled with my homosexuality which I don’t believe was physical in my case, (if there is such a thing). I was brought up by maids who were thrown out every other year until at around five I swore to myself that I would never again love a maid. My mother shot herself when I was almost nine and I didn’t cry. I had stopped crying when women left, at the age of five. “Struggled” in that, after my mother´s death, women became a mystery to me and all my homosexual relationships were difficult. Much more than the heterosexual ones. I enjoyed different aspects of both. The emotionality with women, the sexuality and balance with men.

    Finally I had a relationship with a woman with whom I committed in a different way to the ones before her. I had already been working on myself for eight or nine years and I made the aim to watch myself as it happened. It failed shortly after and I cried almost everyday for six months. It was wonderful! I cried for every woman that had ever left me and cried more for any one who would ever leave me, and more until the well was empty. When I got up from that bed, women were no longer a mystery to me, I never again felt attracted to them in that way.

    I was very much in love with the work and the school when I went back to Isis. I actually went back with a young woman, but we separated shortly after arriving because I just couldn’t hold such a relationship any more. I had a relationship with a male student and then Girard showed up. I was not aware of there being anything wrong with Girard except that everything seemed wrong with Girard but nobody said anything about it in the fellowship. In other words, it was obvious to me that he was not well, that he talked much, repeated much and that he kept going around ideas without reaching out of his rationality but he was so willing to serve, so committed to the school and Robert that I thought that that was the level of understanding of the fellowship and that maybe I could help……. With love. After Cynthia told me the things she told me about Girard, I was shocked but when he showed up again, I was still willing to try.

    It was difficult at the beginning. In fact it was always difficult but at least he stopped hitting me and stopped watching porno after the first day in which I told him to leave immediately, that it would not work with that. He’d hit himself and the car and the table. He hit me until after a few months when I told him to leave and he knew I was very serious. But every time we came to this fights and arguments in which I would become very sad and stay in my studio for a long time, he simply waited and became calm, admitted that it wasn´t good and tried to work to make it better. I came to love him immensely because he always made it a little better. He hit himself less each time, started bringing flowers home almost every week and planting trees. We worked much for the fellowship. I loved it.

    Wanted to give all that I had to him and the fellowship and I had plenty. I had not been badly depressed for years, knew how to deal with his depression and Dorothy´s Alzheimer enough to help her live a fairly decent old woman´s life. To “deal” with it at least in as much as I had had to have an enormous amount of tolerance and compassion for myself to not kill myself no matter how depressed I was and Girard´s depression or Dorothy´s Alzheimer together, were no worse than mine had been. I knew that all I had ever needed was compassion and I was willing to give it to myself because I was very clear that I did not wish to die. Girard accepted to stop taking antidepressants almost immediately and we rolled down the best we could for four years.

    No regular person is willing to give or do anything for any one else unless they are identified with them. If we were all strong that would be fine because it is a pleasure for each individual to carry his own load when he is strong enough, but when we are weak, we need a great deal of help from others, a great deal of “bearing” with us without judgement. Time to “sit under the leaf” while we sort out the Is that trouble us.

    Inviting Heather, a student´s daughter, to live with me was a similar situation. She’d tried to hurt herself three times and I knew she would continue if she wasn’t helped. She did not try once in the five months she lived in our place but tried again two months after she left. Even so, she was not helped to receive my help by those around her and she neglected to work on the things I offered her. Still, I dare say, overall, we love each other, know each other.

    There was indeed much love between Girard and I, the progress was slow but always a little of it, only we never rested and I became increasingly tired. So very tired that I asked Robert for help and he told me he never wanted to hear from the octave again and that I was not to speak to the four ladies leading octaves in the fellowship about it. That cracked the egg in which I was living. Girard had done nothing to help no matter how tired I was and Robert said I was under feminine dominance and dismissed the issue while still accepting my requirement.

    The theoretical confrontations with Girard were always there, with much love. I tried to question why he would not give himself any time to enjoy and was always working for the fellowship and why he could not give his wife time except what we shared in the daily routine of eating and sleeping together. Why we could not rest, take time off. There were deeper areas. Patterns of macho mentality that could not appreciate, I think, any woman for more than the sexuality.

    This was not rare to me or something I was not willing to work with. I spent five years, from fourteen to nineteen studying the mass psychology of fascism and male authoritarian behavior and understood the obstacle fairly deeply but understanding the obstacle and having my husband understand it were two different stories. Girard did love me in his own particular way, but it was not enough to protect me or help me in the play in the fellowship of friends. His blind commitment to Robert which simply strengthened his own macho behavior were too strong to be able to help me or what I was trying to offer.

    I am a proud and beautiful human being and have lived each second of my life. Specially the last twenty three years since I decided I wanted to live it. I worked and learnt, I taught and shared, I loved.

    You may call me crazy but I love this madness if it is madness.

    I have not always been this sane or insane, and it has taken all these years to understand that an individual is nothing on his own, his family and his community count and mad are only those who still think that they can live without being thoroughly responsible for everything in their reach.

    Why the fellowship did not embrace my love is not my problem. Why they preferred to label me and have me carry the load of Girard´s pornography as if I were little more than a crazy whore, is not my problem, or why my husband left me and was unwilling to stand up for us and protect us, is again, not my problem. Even if these things are not said outwardly, they lay in the background and can be heard loudly. Why labelling me crazy makes them think that students will feel more comfortable with the madness that is going on inside the fellowship, is not my problem. The problems are yours.

    I might hurt from your abandonements but if you abandon those that love you it is your problem and if I survived my self twenty three years ago, I swear, you are not a great bunch of people to die for, at least not by my own hand, so don’t worry about my sanity and start questioning your own.

    I have never been anywhere close to a mental institution. My psychoanalist who had been a psychiatrist for twenty five years told me the first day I went to see him that the only thing that he had seen that ever helped people, was talking and that was why he was now a psychoanalist. We worked together for two years after I hurt myself and never looked for another one.

    I talk to you without fear. I have nothing to hide from you people. You can no longer hurt me with your made up lives trying to fit everything to continue the lie in which you’ve decided to live. Your poor and antisocial lives without any compassion for your children or your old people. Your cold and degraded lives with a made up puppet disguised as a conscious barbie.


  14. on July 23, 2007 at 2:40 am Purchasing awakening

    Simple Truth – I wish it all was that simple and transparent in FOF…
    No, it’s not ‘just being present and that’s all.’
    There are lies and crimes and bottomless greed and ‘Be Present’ is just a cover up for devoted sheep like you. Main thing is money and sex and it has always been this way from day one. This is the only driving force behind RB and FOF. Open your damn glossy eyes already!

    On a positive note FOF has already lost about 3.7 million in annual revenue due to recent exodus of wealthier students from US and Europe. It’s more than half of the annual income that comes from the teaching payments. (Usually about 6 million). Certainly there is still quite some personal RB’s income from all those ‘teaching events’.
    But things are changing all by themselves and it’s not looking good for FOF. Current ‘exit rate’ is 50-80 students per month. New students seem to be a thing of the past ( btw, has anyone seen a new student join FOF lately?) It is not about the actual numbers of students who left, it’s more about the category of the people who are leaving. Teaching payment in USA is $450 per month minimum and it’s usually only around $10-$20 in less developed countries. Therefore losing American students does hurt.
    Devoted salaried believers don’t bring much money to RB – they are actually mostly an expense and burden for FOF (sorry Howard).
    I think we’ll see lots of action in few months when Fall donation hits the fan… Stay tuned.
    ST, make sure to complete all your sequences before the shop closes down!


  15. deleted a the author’s request


  16. I am an “ex-student” (wrong, really, for I am still studying human nature and my own role as a professional teacher of craft precious-metals) and appreciate open discussions such as I have found recently on your website. I would welcome the chance to offer neutral, but powerfully compelling ‘snippets’ to your site. Yours……………..Nigel.


  17. Fat Boy :

    Thought I’d give you the skinny on just one of the current ‘irregularitys’ occuring around money in the FOF. There are countless more but this one will serve as an example because you have all been aware of it,you just have not connected the dots.

    ‘La Cucina’ the restaurant on the property that was burned down a couple of years ago. First, put aside the fact that it was originally paid for by FOF ( our doations ). The insurance money from the fire.Where is it? It was spent on gods knows what.
    So, you will have been aware of the ‘auctions’ held over the past couple of years specifically to raise funds so that ‘We’ can rebuild our beautiful La Cucina. ….well over $100.000 was raised.Then it kind of ‘went quiet’ So, where is that money ? and where is the new restaurant ? ‘We’ have now paid three times over for a restaurant that does not exist.
    Care to comment ?


  18. 17 Mole

    You are asking the sheep to comment on being sheared? They think they’re just getting their belly scratched.


  19. Simple Truth

    ‘word words words’

    You seem to be expressing more and more of them.Does it ever occur to you how comical it is to listen to you constantly reminding us our ‘Is’ are not real but you obviously believe that yours are ?


  20. #15 Unoanimo

    Bravo Uno,
    Bravo!

    #7 Xena

    Thanks! Have you read his Alcestiad? It is his only failed play. But to me it is a masterpiece. Let me know your opinion if you get a hold of it.

    xox
    Shelley


  21. #514 Elena:

    “…the dead are no longer out here but in there, quietly walking to Robert´s bedroom or Robert´s meeting, Robert’s dinner or Robert’s tea. Quiet all their lives because Robert never found that they had anything worth to say.”

    And they would call YOU mad?


  22. on July 23, 2007 at 4:44 am Simple Truth

    purchasing awakening, to be present is not a cover is the most important thing in life.

    Self-awareness is the
    greatest change possible, because in ordinary
    conditions of life nobody is aware of
    himself, and yet people do not realize this.
    The whole idea is to be aware of yourself in
    this place, at this moment.

    the lies and crime is the negativity in your wrong understanding.

    And Mrs. Mole i´m not talking to you, and I dont care your poor understanding.
    avoid to express negative emotions that could you feel by this post.


  23. I can suggest where possibly is the money (at least some of it).
    About a year ago me and a friend were walking through Galleria, just looking, admiring the beauty. I was showing him various rooms, kitchen, library… The door to the teacher’s room was wide open and I remember that it was OK in the past to simply walk in… So we did. There was no one there. I said: This is the teacher’s room…
    And my friend noticed a bunch of brand new mens shirts laying by his bed… They were fancy looking, in their packaging… We noticed the price tags. Shirts were $ 1500 plus per each. We were… a bit shocked. These are the kind of shirts the “boys” wear…

    Another true story: once at our house a “boy” got slightly drunk and carried away bragging to other students about his teacher’s many gifts to him. He was showing us his ring, tie, pants, shirt – and exclaiming: This is 1800 bucks, this is 900 bucks, this is 2400 bucks… He was going on and on. It was truly pathetic.
    We heard enough and went away and my boyfriend said to me: This jerk over there is wearing 10 of my teaching payments!

    Well if you think how many “boys” there are and the amount of expensive shirts, rings, pants, suits, etc they wear – it starts to makes sense where the Bistro money could possibly be.


  24. “The whole idea is to be aware of yourself in
    this place, at this moment.” –

    This is not an IDEA. Awareness is simple given reality. Simple truth if you wish.
    When it is made by your mind into an IDEA – then an illusion starts, and search, and unnecessary suffering – all in your head by the way…
    Reality is exactly those “ordinary conditions of life” – this is it, nothing else. Nothing stops you from being where you are now, even thoughts. You are, and you are now.
    Ordinary, simple truth.


  25. Seems that things are working out the way they have with my ‘nobility’ name (ap Rhys – impetuous one), I wrote to Ames Gilbert on E S ‘s contact email in my first sending for this site, so have had to retrace my steps, as all impetuous ones do, and introduce myself in my true (non-Fellowship experience) role as you will see. When I was living with Cynthia Hill and her (now former) husband, Myles Patrick in Palo Alto, the topic arose that led to my mentioning that I wanted to read more literature, which I was not having the chance to do at the time. Funny how wishes come true! When I had to leave the Fellowship (ask members at the time – June 1989) all I could do was study. I tried to attempt employment, but due to the down-side of what has now been diagnosed as my ‘bi-polar affective disorder’ (“I myself contain Heaven and Hell” – Whitman) could only study. One kind and gentle soul I met in hospital was named Joseph Padroaig Farley, an Irishman, who introduced me to W B Yeats. The email to Ames described some of my experiences and contained this poem, which should sustain all genuine ‘Truth Seekers’.

    To a Friend whose Work has come to Nothing……………………

    Now all the truth is out,
    Be secret and take defeat
    From any brazen throat,
    For how can you compete,
    Being honour bred, with one
    Who, were it proved he lies,
    Were neither shamed in his own
    Nor in his neighbours’ eyes?
    Bred to a harder thing
    Than Triumph, turn away
    And like a laughing string
    Whereon mad fingers play
    Amid a place of stone,
    Be secret and exult,
    Because of all things known
    That is most difficult.

    Please allow me time to pace myself in my sendings as I must compose at a pace (“Work, work your thoughts” – Henry V, William Shakespeare) but will not give up on you.

    Yours in Truth..The Answerer (Whitman, again, you will see).


  26. Simple truth.

    I understand you do not wish to talk to me but as long as you post here you are in a dialogue.You do not and cannot conrol those facts.

    Consider this.Does being aware of yourself mean you are paralysed from acting.doing what needs to be done as appropriate to the current circumstances of your life ? The way that you present your understanding is as if to say that being aware of yourself means that everything is fine as it is and one should do nothing…you think you are above talking to me..but have you noticed very few people respond or address you here? I’ll tell you why. Your ludicrously over simplified ,frankly unintelligent and childish application of the idea of ‘Self remembering’ to neutralise anything you do not wish to hear is exactly the kind of mindset that marks you out as a Cult member. Oh, and by the way, I don’t play the FOF game of ‘Not expressing negativity’ as a means of silencing the exposure of the glaring contradictions between what Robert Burton SAYS and what he DOES.


  27. on July 23, 2007 at 5:25 am Simple Truth

    Janna What are you saying? that Mr. Ouspensky was wrong and you are right?

    yes the machine is allways where you are, but you are in the second state, (sleeping imagining that you are awake)
    it is necessary make some kind of efforts for to be present.

    there is a huge difference between the second and third states.

    or you dont know nothing about this?


  28. 27 Simple Truth

    You have become a parasite feeding on the blog. Do you know what a remora is. It’s that parasitic fish that attaches itself to the life of a shark, or whale or manta.

    My enlightened friend. Here is a you. Because as you no doubt know, one cannot see oneself as clearly as another.

    “The relationship between remoras and their hosts is most often taken to be one of commensalism, specifically phoresy[citation needed]. The host they attach to for transport gains nothing from the relationship, but also loses little. The remora benefits by using the host as transport and protection and also feeds on materials dropped by the host. There is some controversy over whether a remora’s diet is primarily leftover fragments, or actually the feces of the host.”

    That’s you, my cowardly troll. Come on, identify yourself. Show some balls. Are you so aware of your own absurdity that you will not own who you are? So far you are only an anonymous little weasel. Is self pride and inner bravery something that you are waiting to develop until right before you “wake up”? Doesn’t work that way. As long as you remain anonymous, you remain irrelevant. You are only speaking your words so you can hear them. You are the fool of the farce.


  29. Deleted. –ES


  30. on July 23, 2007 at 5:55 am Simple Truth

    Mole said: Consider this.Does being aware of yourself mean you are paralysed from acting.doing what needs to be done as appropriate to the current circumstances of your life ?
    the answer is no, being aware of yourself for me means to be present to your own life, is to give your best posibilities, is not to be in imagination, not to express negative emotions, remember that your functions will work better with counsciousness.

    Mole said: The way that you present your understanding is as if to say that being aware of yourself means that everything is fine as it is and one should do nothing…?
    my answer is no, you must act but not in amechanical way, you must act with counsciousness. to be intentional with your thoughts feelings and movements.

    Mole said: you think you are above talking to me?….
    again my answer is No, I´m not above nobody, I only wish to share some quotes from Counscious men.
    I, just like you and all the people, we are asleep, i already realize this, and i want work to wake me up.


  31. #10 fat Boy wrote:

    Our teacher is a human being so he is not flawless and it is my feeling he makes efforts more than anyone I have known to “be present” and to establish harmony with his students. And he also makes the effort to relentlessly teach to his students this concept, “To Be”.

    Really? You say RB is a human being with flaws. I hope RB never hears that you wrote this statement. Maybe he has changed his inflated view of himself and his god-like status since I knew him, but if he has not, you would be in some deep shit for making such a blasphemous pronouncement on his level of being. Watch out!


  32. relative morality:

    “Roosters rape chickens”. Your argument appears to justify mechanical behavior. Didn’t you join a ‘school’ to rise above the billions of sleeping machines, not descend to their level? Just because millions of people smoke cigarettes, that doesn’t make it less unhealthy.

    simple truth?

    The king of clubs has nothing to do with using parts of centers to displace presence. That is simply wrong and would be a waste of precious life energy, which the king of clubs is designed to conserve. The king of clubs is always present, watching over your shoulder, even while you are in first state. Without it you would die.

    What you are really talking about when you say ‘king of clubs’ is everything you don’t like or can’t accept about youself that has been banished from the light of your awareness and into your unconscious mind where it festers. Your higher centers would be better served if you started examining how you are being indoctrinated by the FOF into acting against your own best interests the longer you stay.

    You are misguided if you think that you are informing the many ex-students reading this blog with numerous years of working on themselves that “the whole idea is to be aware of yourself at this moment”. For most of us, that is a given.

    What is your aim in telling us something we already know? Isn’t it to outwardly convince yourself of something of which deep down you are uncertain?


  33. on July 23, 2007 at 6:11 am Simple Truth

    For the Bruce
    Jesus said, “Blessed
    is the man who consumes the lion”
    “Cursed is the man who is consumed by
    the lion”

    Bruce you are being consumed by your own lion.
    and you can not do nothing.
    If somebody is not agree with you, you want to killhim.
    what a close mind.


  34. To follow on from 25 (25 is the number for full understanding, by the way!), I have dug up my paperback copy of Leaves of Grass and found ‘Song of the Answerer’. So I can explain my last sending…………………………………..

    He puts things in their attitudes,
    He puts today out of himself with plasticity and love,
    He places his own city, times, reminiscences, parents,
    brothers and sisters, associations employment and
    politics, so that the rest never shame them afterward,
    nor assume to command them.

    He is the answerer
    What can be answred he answers, and what cannot be
    answered he shows how it cannot be answered.

    Why this tingling telling of Proclamation?! I move over to Shakespeare (Henry V, again!)…………….

    KING: May I with right and conscience make this claim?

    CANTERBURY: …………….
    Stand for your own, unwind your bloody flag,
    Look back into your mighty ancestors.

    So – WILL DO!

    Price is the common form (anglicised) of the Welsh name ‘ap Rhys’ (of impetuous one) and derives from the Danish king named Rijs who made his way into North Wales during the Viking years and gathered the first clan in the British Isles to surpress the ‘shambolic’ feuding among neighbours where he settled. As for the ‘bloody flag’ – if you have the chance to view the Wallace tartan (my mother was a direct descendant of Sir William Wallace – the hero of Scotland – ‘pro libertate’ – for freedom – no wonder she was worried about my connections with the FOF!) you will see it is mostly blood-red with a black ground and yellow flares (black is God’s (the invisible one of the incomprehensible laws) colour and yellow indicates curiosity (from the Scandinavian 1960s film).

    How does this all relate to Burton and the Fellowship? I have no doubt that Burton may be conscious – I myself have to take anti-psychotics to slow down and decrease the volume of ‘racing thoughts’ – I am present to every moment of my life, believe me – but did not Gurdjieff refer to the possibility of even making a sheep conscious in ‘Search’? The fact is that “Essence remembers, whereas personality forgets” (again ‘ In Search of the Miraculous’). Buton ‘tickles the ears’ (Biblical term pertaining to false prophets – Revelations) of his followers and sings the ‘body communal’ and not as Whitman would indicate ‘the body ELECTRIC!’

    In other words, be real in your own life. God bless. Nigel.


  35. 33 Simple Truth

    “If somebody is not agree with you, you want to kill him.”

    Really? Did you pull that out of your ass all by yourself. You are a deeply disturbed individual. It’s good that you’re in the FOF…it’ll keep you off the street.


  36. on July 23, 2007 at 6:29 am subjective morality

    False Personality does not grow in Isis, but it grows in life


  37. subjective morality (around) 36

    False Personality does not grow in Isis, but it grows in life

    *******************

    The Fellowship of Friends is based on a form of false personality that is actually below the level of ordinary life. You imagine that you are conscious but in fact you are psychotic. What you mistake for self-remembering is actually increasing your vanity from mere false personality into something far more hideous.


  38. on July 23, 2007 at 6:41 am Simple Truth

    Whale rider
    first you said: The king of clubs has nothing to do with using parts of centers to displace presence.

    second you said: What is your aim in telling us something we already know?

    these two things are contradictory.
    have you forgot everything that you have learned?

    Mr. Ouspensky called to the King of Clubs the mind besides the machine. and it manipulates the four lower centers for to keep you interested in different themes of imagination.
    And I have not any Doubt, as you.


  39. 36 subjective morality

    “False Personality does not grow in Isis, but it grows in life”.

    Really. If you believe that what the hell are you doing here, you arrogant little twit.?

    You, Simple Truth and the rest of the homunculi are perfect examples of why people should pack their bags and get the fuck out before they’re broke and are forced to stay where they are.


  40. To 31 Dick Moron:

    Robert has said many times he makes mistakes. And refering to himself has made remarks about consciousness is not functions. He knows he is a “machine.” Robert has stated that his higher centers have been awakened. The fourth way view is we all have higher centers but they are used very rarely. Schools are designed to help higer centers function. My opinion is that Robert’s higher centers are functioning more than anyone I have met and the efforts he makes to be present and to teach “presense” I have “subjectively” verified.

    I do agree with you Dick Moron that if I approached Robert in the demeanor of his entry 31, then I would understand if Robert would photograph me. But in the past, when I have approached my Teacher, Robert in a sincere and non combative way he is very positively responsive.


  41. on July 23, 2007 at 7:01 am if memory serves

    Re: #36: Just felt many FOF members cringe at this statement coming from the party line.


  42. on July 23, 2007 at 7:02 am Simple Truth

    Bruce you were student of the FOF?


  43. Laura and I am that,

    You both said that you were not “good students”.
    I was a good “active” student: never late with donations (paid teaching payment before the rent), worked with the exercises, was sincere and enthusiastic, opened the teaching houses, traveled to different centers in different countries, lead the meetings. I did not have any “big roles” in the school but I was doing what the school asked from me. Until… I found out about the lies…

    I think if I would not be sincere and true student, I would never be sure if it is the School which does not work, or I just don’t work on myself.

    Only recently I discovered how many students are actually “not good students”, meaning, they take exercises “with relativity”, or as a suggestion, they smoke (a lots of RB boys do it for sure), a lot of people smoke other things than the cigarets, drink waaaaay more than two glasses of wine, express negativity, lot’s of women wear pants, lots of people listen to rock music, dance at the parties, watch violent movies, go to striptease, screw around, read newspapers, laugh showing their teeth, don’t put the first bite aside, and definitely don’t do the sequence, but… they are around.

    But isn’t it true that if you are making sincere efforts you have to have some results? And there are no results. Honestly, I’ve got NOTHING from the school. I’ve got a lot from my own life, from other people, from the shocks, from the books, but what did I get from the school? A lot of practices and promises…


  44. 27 Simple truth en Fat boy

    FAT BOY: You sound more sane than your colleague who thinks he speaks the ‘ simple truth’, emotionally grown up and thoughtful. But I think the framework of your knowledge is a bit narrow. A bit like the people living in North Korea. I hope you know what I mean?

    SIMPLE TRUTH: you are vain but it must be nice to feel so superior as you do…(sorry – I don’t want to hurt but this is the main impression you produce in my subjective mind) But there are also good things to say about you. For instance I’m very happy you are so content with your presence. But I also feel in you the dilettante that I was when I was in my mid-twenty’s.

    EXCLUSIVE RIGHT
    So……..your basis message is ‘presence’ is an exclusive right
    of people paying money to Robert Burton.

    ‘Simple Truth’, I don’t think your are a member of this group/cult
    for a long time like ‘Fat boy’. But if you are – consider this experiment:

    THE EXPERIMENT
    Stop paying money to Robert Burton for a while (say two years)
    And to work with your ‘king of clubs’ give this money anonymously
    to the poor. And just continue with what you call ‘being present’.

    HOLY BIBLE
    Maybe during this time make an aim to read the complete Holy Bible, old and new testament.

    EMANUEL KANT
    Maybe study the work of Emanuel Kant and understand that you are and always will be completely subjective an that nobody can nor will ever see the ‘outer world’.

    MARKETING
    Maybe study some marketing and learn what mechanisms institutions use to support transactions. For instance exchanging a their brand of chicken for money. Or their brand of presence for your money.

    LET RESULTS RULE
    So… separate from wanting to be special or superior and do this experiment with an open mind. And let results rule, period.

    YOU ARE MAYBE MORE WISE
    Maybe you will personally verify that you do very well without this ‘school’ an maybe even better. Maybe you will find you are more wise, strong, intelligent, disciplined, present and closer to God than you ever thought possible or even hoped for.

    YOU OWN IT TO YOURSELF
    Remember that Robert Burton (if he is what he claims to be) spend himself only a very short time in a ‘school/group/cult’. So if you are a longtime member you own it to yourself to see if you really need paternal support to do the thing you want most in this life (hopefully being present and feeling the Depth, Oneness and Grace of GOD)

    PLAY FIRST VIOLIN
    So it maybe nice and cheerful in the fof but you will always play the second violin in your own life. And you will never find your own true voice.

    FOR FREE
    My conclusion or simple truth: (maybe yours will be different, and you run back to Robert Burton) If you sincerely value the presence it can not be taken away from you nor can it be given by somebody else. It is completely free and is accessible at any moment by anyone.

    So ‘Simple Truth’ and ‘Fat boy’ hope that you are both well and live in accordance with you own simple truth.

    Let what you know take you away

    Peter


  45. I am a little perturbed, having read some of the ‘blog’ that is on this site, that anger flies about in all corners, and that people seem to have a reason to justify their stance, either in staying in, or for having left the FOF. Sorry to tell you folks, but that has nothing to do with Real I or The Self. I had real trouble with guilt, reading back through Gurdjieff and Ouspensky, having parted from the FOF those years back. Collin’s “Theory of Conscious Harmony” created the third force between the guilt (denying force) and the active force of C influence (for some serendipititious reason, my father’s telephone number was given an added 44 on the town code – you can call him if you like – Deleted –ES – Peter G Price) – two weeks after I came back from Ca) and made me realize that, as Whitman so rightly pointed out, “Knowledge is not finally found in schools”. I can apply a Burton quote to myself, which he may remember or not:-

    “I know who I am and I know whom I represent”

    Yours consistently…….Nigel.


  46. on July 23, 2007 at 7:49 am Another Name

    Dear all

    BS meter and fat boy, showed up after HC and ….somebody else left the blog maybe you two can talk with Nick SP first before you publish here.
    Please BS meter and fat boy, go and TALK to students, go and LISTEN to them. Go and talk to Gideon’s wife, T, the bookkeepers and open the books. Go and talk to C and all the ordinairy students. I will not advise you to talk with the many ex students around 500 as has been mentioned. You might be ready to go to Mental Health in YC if you can digest their understanding and what they know.
    O, and go back to school for math classes. a handfull monthly would be 5 and it is 50 and more.

    One more thing the choice of YOUR NAMES??????????
    Says enough. Love to you and much sanity is needed to heal. maybe ask our sweet MD’s they might have some anti depressants left.

    Love to all of you and we will survive.

    I got all my love to give
    I got all my life to live
    I will survive
    Yeh, yeh,


  47. on July 23, 2007 at 7:50 am Simple Truth

    Peter
    I´m not feel superior to anybody you are wrong. sorry if you think that, but i´m not better than anybody.
    i´m just another asleep human being like you and everybody.

    you don´t like my way to express myself?

    and one of the reasons for to be in a school is because one is not strong enough for to wake up by yourself.

    three things are necesary to wake up, efforts from you, help from people with experience in this work, and knowledge.


  48. on July 23, 2007 at 7:53 am Another Name

    Dear Laura,

    Thanks for your letter.
    Life is a healing process
    Giving up illusions
    Till we say
    O, I am ready to die to day
    It was pleasant
    Many have gone before me
    It is time.
    And time does the job
    No efforts or “evoked” presence
    Just simply now, silence
    So your conscience can be heard
    The all existent silence
    A little love
    A kindness
    A friend
    A beautiful sky
    Now


  49. Peter, 43:

    Yes, I know what you mean by saying North Korea but would not agree with you using it about me. I agree with you that the framework of how I relate my experience and opinion is narrow and I keep it this way so in order not to get to convulated.

    I believe it is more constructive to be clear, simple, non sarcastic, sincere, not to critical torward each other when we write on this blog. But when people start doing the opposite of the above it creates a chain of very subjective thinking that seems not to be helpful; only entertaining.

    Robert use to quote Goethe, “If I had more time I would have wrote a shorter letter”.


  50. Simple Truth,
    Smug self calming, habitual self indoctrination and in your case almost complete institutionalisation.
    You don’t see it and cannot entertain for a second that others do.
    Love Ryan.


  51. Dear Simple truth,

    It is fine how you express yourself.
    And it is not important whether I like it or not.
    (Who am I the judge you? I don’t even know you)

    You know you are completely right if you say:

    Start quote from ST–

    “and one of the reasons for to be in a school is because one is not strong enough for to wake up by yourself.”

    “Three things are necesary to wake up, efforts from you, help from people with experience in this work, and knowledge.”

    – end quote of ST

    But when is enough, enough. Robert Burton once decided that he learnt enough for Alexander Horn and leaved (some people say he was fired, I don’t know what is true).

    What is the difference between Robert Burton and yourself Simple Truth? You know more than you think you know. For instance on the basis of your own understanding and knowledge you place Robert Burton way up to yourself. Again it is your judgment (a part of you) who is saying to you; HE is up and YOU are under. And people like ME are again under that. I understand this and it is not strange to me because I did the same for almost 12 years.

    Now, for me it is different. I see You and ‘Fat boy’ as higher beings than Robert Burton. As you are both willing to learn, make payments and sacrifice from something you believe in. This is a level of being I don’t think Robert Burton ever was able to reach for longer than a few months.

    Dear Fat Boy,

    Sorry, if I insulted you with the term ‘North Korea’. With the content of your letter I completely agree. But it is fine to quote Goethe yourself (here on the bog the voice of Robert Burton does not have the authority as inside the Fellowship of Friends)

    If one of you wishes to write to me personally please send your mail to: mail@PeterSchwank.com


  52. Hi friends.
    Subjective morality.. yes true you do appear very subjective.
    Fathead boy..
    Simple way too simple truth.
    If you people are real then I am sorry for you and hope you recover!
    484. The USA democratic youre joking surely?
    Its not the people who vote but the people who count the votes who decide anything.

    500. Bullshit meter. Stick your head back up your ass!
    You are that unusual entity, an asshole that talks and of course it talks shit! hope you recover.

    3. Jeremy, more shame on you! look instead in the mirror. What motivated your post?

    4 Horakhty, thanks for posting this, despite its source. Samael Aum Weor, as you probably know this was not his real name, he was heavily into Quabbalism was from Columbia and wrote around seventy books hmmm seems like he was sampling the merchandise.

    Unoanimo !!!!!! was that your own? who ever wrote it, its beautifull.

    Nigel harris Price. Funnily enough Wallace means the Welshman,le waleisa. He has been romanticised to death. He was like most Scots heroes not so sharp as to be tricked by the English with their practised subterfuge.

    Elena. Thanks for giving your story it gives relativity, please give strength to those I’s which disregard those poor ones who are struggling to become human and still quite short of the mark who post here.
    This is from Emily Dickinson please forgive if its slightly paraphrased as its from memory.

    ” Much madness is divinest sense to a discerning eye.
    Much sense the starkest madness.
    Tis the majority decide in this as in all.
    Assent and you are sane .
    Demur and you are dangerous and handled with a chain.”

    Hope ive not corrupted it too much.
    Better the devil you know than the devil you dont know.
    All great people have touched despair it comes with casting your net wider than comfort would dictate.
    As a persons consciousness grows it begins to take in an ever larger picture of the world and goes beyond its own subjective little circle.
    I wish you joy!
    cy.


  53. Stanislav Grof in the link below discusses the use of hallucinogens in the awakening process. Almost all of the major religions began with their use. The mystery traditions all had their use at their culmination. The ayahuascal experience for example in particular because of its primary effect begins with having to let go of the ego as its hard to be egotistical when one is squirting from both ends. In todays world it can give a profound insight into what is possible for us and of course then one can use the insights gained in ones normal life without further use. It is also possible to get to the same places through knowledge and intentional suffering used wisely although much more difficult. The north american indian church uses them as part of its sacrament and they pray for everything in existence while experiencing the higher state, they also purify themselves with sweat lodges, they operate amongst other places in Nevada not far from Las Vegas and welcome strangers from all cultures although one needs a sponsor. It is perhaps a dimension of the sly mans pill. Grof was drummed out of the psychological community or pecked to death at one point for his adherence to and advocating their use as part of the spiritual quest.
    Let me know what you think.
    May you illumine.
    love from cy.


  54. Dear Cyclops

    Thanks for your counterfoil – actually Wallace means ‘son of Wales’ – and having been to the Katherine Jenkins concert at Margam Park, I am proud to bear that connection – “For I am Welsh, you know” (God almighty! There goes Henry V again) and, just to “strike your father (figure) ‘s (Burton) into the hazard” (HV encore!) Welsh is the name that the Angles gave to the people who inhabited that land and means ‘foreigner’ (foreign hire needs money to operate please note – I can be mercenary up to the hilt!)

    Your move Cyclops (let’s get into CHESS – maybe the musical by Tim Rice (family again) – rees, prees, reece, rice – the common grain – and did not King John say in ‘1066 and all that’ – “But not the common people” – bloody Frenchman trying it out with Renaissance, now Isis – as my GP and confidante, Dr Adrian Midgley (fly in the ointment – salve to use an old English term) – Lil(l)y can be sued because it has money (they make my Olanzapine [see Formulae book – go on make an effort] but I control the dose so as I can feel enough without losing control). Anyway the quote from Chess (the musical that is) “The man is utterly mad – you’re playing a lunatic”; “That’s the trouble, he’s a brilliant lunatic; you can’t dissect him, analyze him, which means he’s not a lunatic at all” Thanks Eric Nightingale, the mighty chess player and Viking buyer of my very popular ‘dolphin’ rings – dolphins are now coming to their next (4th) evolution – they represent COMMUNICATION – go on CYCLOPS – tell me your real name -or is your one eye just a plastic addition on your forehead? – not the ‘mind’s eye’ (pituitary gland – which is used in critical thought because it can scan the clouds of imagination. In other words HAVE YOU GOT A BRAIN IN THAT HEAD? Show yourself capable of a battle.

    Signed……………………………the Welsh Samurai (meaning servant) – ‘fight as if one already dead’.


  55. Too late Cyclops
    While you were either having breakfast or pressing your business suit/shirt/blouse or whatever I have another quote – this time from Henry IV, Part I – in which Prince Hal (later to become the king) talks of being involved with Falstaff et al. (false personality, n’est-ce pas, Monsieur Haven). Anyway, you will see what False Personality I was involved with as I do this one of ‘the top of my head’ – by memory, in actual fact, because I cannot be a**sed to wait and visit the library before I go to work this evening and not be on top of my ‘barrage with intent to act’. You may be surprised that we were forced to memorise whole chunks of Shakespeare as punishments at my grammar school (Oh! Trespass sweetly urged. Give me my sin again -Romeo and Juliet – thanks Uncle Will!)

    “I know you all and will awhile uphold
    The unyoked humour of your idleness
    Yet herein will I imitate the sun
    Who doth permit the base contagious clouds
    To smother up his beauty from the world
    That, when he please again to be himself
    Being wanted, he may be more wondered at
    By breaking through the foul and ugly mists
    Of vapours that did seem to strangle him.
    If all the year were playing holidays
    To sport would be as tedious as to work
    But when they seldom come, they wished for come
    And nothing pleaseth but rare accident.
    So when this loose behaviour I throw off
    And pay the debt I never promised
    By how much better than my word I am
    By so much shall I falsify men’s hopes
    And, like bright metal on a sullen ground
    My reformation glittering over my fault
    Shall show more goodly in men’s eyes
    Than that which hath no foil to set it off.
    I’ll so offend, to make offence a skill,
    Redeeming time when men think least I will.”

    For all those in genuine searching, might I recommend the best American ‘feel-good’ film I have seen – “Field of Dreams” – ‘If you build it (a circle of influence, that is) HE will come!’

    Beware of Falstaffs (false ‘taff’s = phoney Welshmen)

    “Dibs – in Search of Self” by Virginia M Axline (child psychiatrist) – The Kingdom of Heaven belongs to such little ones (big JC).


  56. P.S. Cyclops

    I have inherited my maternal grandfather’s book collection including a first edition of ‘The Life of Wallace’. Mel Gibson romanticised him to death, not Bruce or al; and it was the battle of Culloden which finally ‘did it in’ for the Scots, because after that battle, Scots first-born sons were sent to England to be educated. That is why you get so many toffee-nosed gits with Southern British Standard accents being absentee landowners for their struggling Scots tenants even today. Get your facts correct before you ‘issue from the empty into the void’ to quote Gurdjieff.

    Nigel Harris Price.


  57. Hi Nigel,
    wow I seem to have touched a corn, not even tramped on it. Welcome to the blog!
    I didnt say that holly wood had romanticised him! the scots are good enough at that themselves. But too much love of country is Instinctive in origin.
    Burtoon If you have read the rest of the preceding blog is no friend of mine. I would like to see him out of business!
    He is a grim reaper. Shakespeare whoever he was, I love as much as Rumi.
    You do appear to have Scottish Quixotic blood, just spoiling for a fight.
    Its a great irony that they have given the world so much, Tv (Im not sure about that being a good thing), but the telephone, major advancements in heart surgery etc and yet always been screwed by the english/german “nobility”. That bitch has a lot to answer for…..
    My respect for the bard is boundless.
    Remember ” a thousand traitors sit within thy crown”
    and
    “Now get thee to thy ladies chamber, tell her to paint an inch thick to this favour she must come”. Adressed to your Queen. thanks for the quotes.
    Not a plastic eyed…. cy


  58. on July 23, 2007 at 1:31 pm for the Best_1

    #3 Jeremy
    #13 Elena

    Jeremy, you are pathetic .

    Elena, you are beautiful.

    Aline


  59. Cyclops has just posted a link to a Stanislav Grof interview, Whalerider had recommended Holotropic Breathwork on post 13-594. Coincidentally, dr. Grof is the creator of Holotropic Breathwork with his wife Christina, who is also the founder of the Spiritual Emergence Network. They have written a number of very interesting and influential books. If you are not familiar with their work, I strongly suggest you to acquainted with it.

    Holotropic Breathwork is one of the most powerful transformative experiences I have encountered in my life, and it’s also amazingly simple. I do it about once a year, and find it a great tool for healing and self-understanding.

    One ironic aspect is that I first met dr. Grof shortly before leaving the fellowship, watching a taped interview I checked out at the Goldmans’ video library.
    So, Abraham, after all I owe you one…

    This Scottish quote seems quite à propos at this point:
    “When one door closes, another opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened for us.”
    Alexander Graham Bell


  60. Hi again Nige.
    “Scots wha hae wi Wallace bled,
    Scots wham Bruce has often led
    welcome tae yir gory bed,
    or tae victory.
    NOWs the time
    and nows the hour.
    see approach proud edwards power
    chains and slavery.”

    “Git” is such a great word!
    “hark when the night is falling hear i hear the pipers calling loudly and proudly calling down through the glen”
    Is it the heid yir efter? Yi sassenach. Can yir mammie sow? Well git her tae stitch this! Oucha.
    yill no cood unnerstaun iz yi bampot eh hink its a ower yir heid.
    regards cy. the pineal eye.


  61. on July 23, 2007 at 2:18 pm Kid Shelleen

    Cyclops said:

    “Stanislav Grof in the link below discusses the use of hallucinogens in the awakening process. Almost all of the major religions began with their use. The mystery traditions all had their use at their culmination.”

    I remember one time after a particularly dull and theoretical meeting, my friend Michael S. said, “What everyone in that room needs is a hit of LSD-25. After that, maybe we can talk about higher states with some sort of mutual understanding and intelligence.”

    It’s funny, when I get right down to the bottom of it, what I was really looking for all those years ago, was someone to help me understand what I had experienced at my first Grateful Dead concert; I just happen to run into the fof at the time I was getting serious about that question. Too bad no one turned me onto Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell sooner.

    Also, for those of a similar mind, I want to highly recommend John Horgan’s book “Rational Mysticism”. It is Horgan’s survey of what a wide range of “experts” have to say about the modern mystical experience. Check out his web site johnhorgan.org for chapters that were left out of the book. One of them deals with Andrew Cohen, another self-professed enlightened being. There’s also a chapter about the folks that wrote the Guru Papers.

    See you in the funny papers.


  62. Another Name, thank you, how lovely

    This song goes out to all the sisters out there. Isn’t it nice to be a woman?
    love

    http://www.ifilm.com/video/2777036


  63. Laura .
    Back at you with thanks for your inner and outer beauty.

    Most good students were only acting. love Cy.


  64. Fat Boy #40 wrote:

    I do agree with you Dick Moron that if I approached Robert in the demeanor of his entry 31, then I would understand if Robert would photograph me. But in the past, when I have approached my Teacher, Robert in a sincere and non combative way he is very positively responsive.

    Hey Fat Boy,
    Next time RB is blowing you, politely ask him to please take your pecker out of his mouth and see how “positively responsive” he is. Then try to simply walk out of the room and find out how “non combative” he will be.


  65. Dear Laura:

    YES, holotropic breath work is awesome! Grof developed it from observing tribal rituals after LSD became illegal. It is indeed a powerful transformational tool. Intense altered states can be easily created without chemicals. Unlike drug induced trips, you can stop the process at any time, and there are no side effects. I use the process myself, and highly recommend it, as long as you don’t have heart disease or smoke.

    simple truth?

    “Mr. Ouspensky called the King of Clubs the mind besides the machine and it manipulates the four lower centers for to keep you interested in different themes of imagination.”

    What the hell are you talking about? The king of clubs is also one of the lower centers, is it not? To what end would it manipulate itself? Please cite the above quote from O so we might carry on an intelligent debate here.

    It would be your emotional center that engages in fantasy and imagination, and your intellect that engages in abstract thinking, not your instinctive center. Intentional creative imagination, such as an artist might use involves the sex center.

    Your personality, fears, and ambitions drive your imagination, not your king of clubs. The instinctive center is quite occupied plodding along keeping you safe and alive. Remember, it takes eight hours to digest the food that you eat. Imagination happens at the speed of the emotions.

    In the interest of your own sanity and mental health, I sincerely suggest you resist labeling any part of yourself evil, as you seem to make your king of clubs out to be. In doing so, you will only cause an unhealthy schism within yourself. If you don’t understand the word schism, do yourself a favor and make the effort to research its meaning. Then you can begin to know yourself a little better.


  66. To Dick Moron 65:

    To make it clear I do not have a sexual relationship with the Teacher, and Robert is positively responsive to his students whether sex or not is involved. With that being said, I believe the tone of your comment brings this blog to a lower level.


  67. Thanks, Fat Boy. You are providing your own confirmation (in addition to numerous other accounts on this blog) that sex is involved. Another question is why people don’t see that as a serious problem. But in any case, thanks again… Keep posting.


  68. Simple truth,
    all I want to say to you – think for yourself. See for yourself. Fuck Ouspensky! (Besides, he himself said to abandon the system, remember?)
    You are what you are – know thyself. Thyself! Not Ouspensky, not Robert – THYSELF. Look within, see what You truly are.

    “yes the machine is always where you are, but you are in the second state,”
    – Just ask yourself: WHO AM I? And try not to go to you mind for learned answers. All you say is someone’s ideas. The truth is in the Now and may just reveal itself in You if you quietly look within.

    “it is necessary make some kind of efforts for to be present.”
    – No it is not. What You are is always present and aware, never goes “off”. What you imagine yourself to be (machine, steward, Simple Truth -whatever) – just an imaginary mental image, a label, it’s not You.

    “there is a huge difference between the second and third states.” – So what? You are not the passing states. What has those states, where are they happening? Ask yourself.

    “or you dont know nothing about this?” – I thought I knew. Now I am happy not to know much. I simply am, and wishing you to discover the fun and ease of it for yourself.


  69. 27: Simple Truth:

    “Janna What are you saying? that Mr. Ouspensky was wrong and you are right?”

    I’m not sure what Janna was intending in this respect, but from my point of view, yes, what she has been saying in the blog points more clearly towards spiritual truth than do the writings of G. and O. Doesn’t mean she’s a “conscious being” though!

    “yes the machine is allways where you are, but you are in the second state, (sleeping imagining that you are awake) it is necessary make some kind of efforts for to be present.”

    In my experience, “you” or “I” making efforts to be present is a complete waste of time – just reinforces our illlusion of individuality.

    “there is a huge difference between the second and third states.”

    Maybe, but they are both temporary.

    “or you dont know nothing about this?”

    Many of us know all about this, practiced it for many years, and ultimately concluded it doesn’t work.

    RN


  70. Dear Fat Boy:

    “Robert is positively responsive to his students.”

    Why wouldn’t he be, fool? How could it be otherwise? You are paying his way!

    We are not here to bring anybody to a ‘lower level’, but to unearth what is below the surface of the smiling facade. You have no idea (or maybe you do) the extent to which you are unconsciously ‘influenced’ by product packaging. Wine bottle labels are a case in point.


  71. Hi folks.
    Self remembering works for me!
    Remembering my real self beyond all of the I’s, beyond the material world.
    And I do work to maintain a connection to it. I also bless the day I discovered it. It seems that there is a semantic problem in discussing it thoug,h but its acceptable to me that there are other ways of thinking about it they all lead to the same place hopefully. So some of us believe we have to maintain it like a flower that must be watered and some of us believe that we can do it without any effort isnt that ok? We will all reap what we have sown when we meet our maker, or not as the case may be as I dont want to start an argument about God next.
    Id rather give some Native American words by Chief Seattle.

    “Human kind has not woven the web of life.
    we are but one thread in it.
    Whatever we do to the web, we also do to ourselves.
    All things are bound together.
    All things connect.”

    Peace be upon you. cy.
    Ps. Goethe said “of freedom and of life he only is deserving who every day doth master them anew.”


  72. In relation to the letter from “Rick Ross” that was mentioned by “Fatboy”. I sent a copy of the post to Rick and asked for his comment. It is the following:

    “I have sent out no such letter regarding Fellowship of Friends. This
    person has made a false statement.

    Rick Ross
    http://www.rickross.com

    So…someone is fucking around. And the original post said the letter was unsigned. Why was it assumed it was from Rick Ross?


  73. To Bruce, 73:

    Thanks for your research and no thanks to the language you use. I apologize if I made a mistake and said it was from Rick Ross, the reason for that was that at the end of the letter, it said something to the effect that you can contact his website. It was a very long letter and I skimmed it but I do believe the writer of this letter intentionally put it at the end to make it think it was comming from Rick Ross. My apologies!


  74. Simple Truth, #9, wrote:

    “To Be Present is the main thing, that we do in the FOF.
    and thats all.”

    Yes, unfortunately that’s not enough. It actually DOES matter what else is going on inside of us — our own thoughts, inclinations, likes, dislikes, talents, weaknesses, gifts. Self-remembering while rejecting and repressing much of what one truly is cannot possibly lead to anything healthy — quite the contrary.


  75. 74
    “It was a very long letter and I skimmed it but I do believe the writer of this letter intentionally put it at the end to make it think it was coming from Rick Ross.

    So, forgive your original assumption, and just go with your next assumption, right?

    My language…? I would assume that the higher men that the FOF is producing would enable one to not be offended by “words”. Are they impinging on your efforts to take in higher impressions?

    Fuck you very much.


  76. If you remember yourself using Robert Burton and the FoF as your third force then you are actually falling deeper into a state of sleep. If you are using the hypnotic, trance producing, formatory based process called the “Sequence” then you are actually destroying your soul rather than developing it. You are mistaking lunatic for the third state.


  77. Post number 15 was extraordinary. Out of this world it was.

    Speaking of out of this world. Lunatics and other crazy people.

    While on the road I made a fast food restaurant my sitting room for a couple of years. I met some interesting people there.

    One day a bono-fide state certified person that heard and answered voices came in. One day because of lunch rush we were forced to sit together. We had our how do you do’s and not much else. From time to time he would giggle or murmur under his breath.

    After that day it became a daily occurance he and I, and the rest of the sitter’s in the living room. One day he learned of my self-imposed living situation and invited me to live with him.

    He was conversational and intelligent but during lulls he would wonder off with the voices. One night I began making him really giggle and when he stopped he looked at me with a straight face and said, “arthur you are crazy”.

    Another time I was hired to guard a new construction of summer homes. During the week-end I would go into town and visit the bar at a hotel/motel. The first night I sat at the bar and a male sitting close by said, “how long have you been out on the street”? I thought I was dressed. I later found out that the town had a “mental” hospital and some of the patients had week-end passes. Photograph?

    Another time someone said, “if I didnt know you better, I would think you are crazy”. And, other side remarks like, “you’re something else”, “You’re nuts”, “you’re a crackpot”, “you crack me up” , “you are weird” and on and on”.

    I guess I am a LUNAR with an invisible TIC.


  78. WhaleRider, #32, wrote:

    “What you are really talking about when you say ‘king of clubs’ is everything you don’t like or can’t accept about youself that has been banished from the light of your awareness and into your unconscious mind where it festers. ”

    Exactly. This is the irony of the Fellowship of Friends, something I noticed early on but didn’t have the courage to accept for years — that is, that in order to conform to the picture of a “work personality” that bears little resemblance to one’s actual self, you must blind yourself to your own reality. In time, this self-imposed darkness breeds some nasty little mushrooms as one’s truer self tries to rise to the surface, only to be banished under the heading of “king of clubs” (“false personality” in my day). Depression and other mental illnesses are pretty much a predictable outcome of this behavior, in my experience.


  79. on July 23, 2007 at 8:23 pm 'I see' said the blind man

    Fat Boy

    I was waiting for someone to get a handle on the situation in this way. Thank you for coming in on cue.
    After all, if the status quo is threatened by those previously part of the institution, getting them to rally round the flag again in the face of an assault from outside is superficially a good strategy.

    I have little doubt that you are something to do with the FOF organization and that this half-baked attempt is another quasi-official reflex-reaction from the FOF.

    The FOF council of parasites and losers has to remain convinced that all this is part of the great play given to the elect by the gods for them to work through these times of friction in our great conscious school.
    The chosen few have had to transform the play of crime, made especially painful because the evil ones were previously trusted students that made up the fabric of the school. These special people in their lonely roles as the last nobility of this civilization, who stand firmly by their aim to awaken and their loyalty to their beloved teacher, are to be commended.

    Of course this select group brought together by fate and higher force’s direct intervention is above the nitty-gritty of the laws of cause and effect. This is not happening as a result of crimes committed by the teacher and complicity by those in ‘prominent roles’. It is not a natural and predictable demise of a corrupt and unsustainable fraud – this is a trial of your wonderful being and the gods are yet again taking us to the limits.
    The FOF administrators and councilors owe a huge debt to influence C; they know full well that most of them couldn’t wipe their own asses if influence C had not written it into their plays.
    Hey ho for influence C!

    I feel genuine sympathy for people so lost in the momentum of what they are doing that they cannot sidestep the current that is dragging them down.
    Maybe you should have a meeting about what to do next? What fun.


  80. on July 23, 2007 at 8:50 pm The Letter in Question

    Here is a transcript of the unsigned letter referred to as the Rick Ross letter and again with explanation in 74/ Fat Boy. The assumption is that it has been sent to all box holders and the Oregon House Post Office, student or not. Just an assumption.

    ______________

    Dear Oregon House Community: Hello. This is a letter to inform the community of the current efforts to legally, socially dissolve, bring, to an end the Fellowship of Friends Inc., based in Oregon House, California. The FoF, a legal and registered church in the state of California, who, for more than 36 years has, based upon current and ex-members observations of this church, fraudulently handled its monies in regards to the IRS, Yuba County and the State of California, fraudulently misguided and psychologically entrapped its spiritual members and has consistently failed in its responsibilities as a fair and just spiritual school upon this earth.

    Please, by the end of this letter and the blog, you will probably not like any Fellowship of Friends person, initially, though, there is a large population of ex-members in Oregon House who are diligently working with friends all over the world and locally to dissolve this fraudulent religious organization and expose it to local, state, and national agencies as a non-entity in the world of religion, spiritual schools and any balanced form of education or wholesome spiritual practice.

    So try to be kind to all those in and out of the Fellowship of Friends. Hundred are leaving or have left this organization and several thousands remain. Please make your decisions wisely, read, consider and do research before joining our call for you to write to your California Governor; directing all applicable state & national agencies to consider the 5000+ articles at this website address: http://www.fellowshipoffriends.wordpress.com or by putting in the search box in Google the phrase Fellowship of Friends Blog. There is allot to read. We suggest that you start with Part 1& 2, then move to Part 13 & 14. Part 13 will give you a very good overview of the issues surrounding the nature of The Fellowship of Friends, past and current.

    A sample of the current understanding of this church is: (these quotes are from the FoF Blog site) “The best action those who are displeased with Robert Burton’s corruption, venality and arrogant abuse of his position is to take legal action. This does not need to be lawsuit but can be in the form of a complaint to the state and federal attorney’s as well as the IRS.”
    “Robert Burton is a criminal and those who support him are part of a criminal conspiracy to defraud. It might be possible for a federal prosecutor to use legislation designed for organized crime to investigate and prosecute an interstate conspiracy to defraud. If the Fellowship has not informed all prospective and present students of the Canons it is fraud (and they have not to thousands). Advertising as a 4th way school and operating as a religion is fraud. Not revealing the true cost or membership is also fraud. Members should be able to make the minimum donations and have full rights other wise it is extortion. Members should be able to vote on the board members and major decisions. There should be a yearly report with full and accurate accounting of all funds donated to the fellowship. There should be no separate funds available to Robert Burton (proceeds from RVW wine sales go directly to supporting Robert Burton;s deeds). This is illegal.”

    “…right now the most workable approach is for current or recently departed members to charge the Fellowship and Robert Burton with fraud. If you were not shown the canons and did not accept them upon joining but had them revealed and enforced after wards that is one aspect of fraud. A second is the constant abuse of fellowship fund by Robert Burton for his personal use, what monies he pays out to the entourage, what he pays his lackeys, his fund raising for his personal account, if he did not report this it is an IRS violation. The point here is that a relatively small action may be enough to get a county district attorney’s office, State Attorney General’s office, federal attorney or the IRS to investigate.”

    “As manyy here have expressed a “church” that publicly lavishes its leader with extravagant gifts, vacation and travel, while creating a community dependent upon public welfare for health support may arguably be in violation of its IRS 501(c) (3) tax exempt status.”

    “He also requests large monetary payments lives like a king, has sex with many of this followers, and excommunicates followers who leave the organization, unless they wish to return in which case further large fees are demanded. He also reinforces the dependency that follower begin to form on the organization, by convincing them that this a unique organization, and encouraging social and other forms of reliance on it. How can this be explained by the argument that he is a higher being? Does not your innate inner intelligence indicate to you that there is some discrepancy here? “(PLEASE READ THE FELLOWSHIP OF FRIENDS BLOG TO ANSWER FOR YOURSELF.)

    IRS: If you know of an individual or company that is not complying with the tax laws, you may report this activity by completing Form 3949-A. You may fill out form 3949-A online, print it and mail it to: Internal Revenue Service, Fresno, CA 93888. If you do not wish to use Form 3949-A, you may send a letter to the address above. Please include the following information, if available: Name and address of the person you are reporting, the taxpayer identification number (social security number for an individual or employer identification number for a business) a brief description of the alleged violation, including how you became aware of or obtained the information, although you are not required to identify yourself, it is helpful to do so. Your identity can be kept confidential. You may also be entitled to a reward. (You do not need the offical #’s to report the FoF to the IRS)

    INS: The national hotline number for the DHS Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) division -” report suspicious activity” (866) DHS 2ICE or (866) 347-2473. (Students have spent time in jail for obtaining illegal passports from the Italian mafia to try and come back to Oregon House to serve RB’s needs; many of Robert’s “boys” marry American girls (students daughters) in order to stay in the country. Religious visas issued to the FoF are fraudulent in the nature of their “official claims of employment.”)

    FBI: FBI Headquarters in Washington, D.C. Call (202) 324-3000 or write to the following address: Federal Bureau of Investigation J. Edgar Hoover Building 935 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW Washington DC 20535-0001
    Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger State Capitol Building Sacramento, CA 95814 Phone 916-445-2841 Fax 916-445-4633
    Attorney General’s Office California Department of Justice Attn: Public Inquiry Unit P.O. Box 944255 Sacramento, CA 94244-2550

    http://www.rickross.com is another site to access FoF reports and fraud history
    Please read the blog carefully and write to these organizations. Assist us to bring an end to Robert Earl Burton’s reign.


  81. To Bruce 36: Your vulgar ending to your entry does not offend me in the least, but it is very difficult to have a meaningful and constructive discussion when you are so coarse.

    To the moderator and other writers: Whether your a member, former member or otherwise, if it is the aim of this blog to freely express ourselves and debate issues I assume most of you would agree it better to be civil and courtuoes to one another, so please stand up against vulgar insults or please do not allow them to be posted.


  82. I was thinking more today what did I learn from the School. I found something I would like to bring for a discussion here. The idea of Alchemy.

    When I joined the center, first thing which made an impression on me (similarly as on our dear Sheik) was what I later learned to recognize as “a gold alchemy”

    It was interesting for me to explore this tool. It was said that the only mechanical part of your essence you can change is your alchemy and if you work on alchemy eventually you will be living in the refine environment suitable to your higher centers and your higher centers will “wake up” more often, because of the finer energy (hydrogen) circulating in your machine.

    I thought it was worthwhile trying to bring my every day life in each aspect to the standards of this so called gold alchemy. Unfortunately I could never succeed with this aim, because soon I realized that to surround oneself with the gold alchemy one needs a lot of money.

    I would like to read what other students have experienced regarding this “tool”. I already read some thoughts about discrimination and “higher society” life style being so attractive especially for those from the lower social level or third world countries.

    But that probably the only thing which still holds me in the school – the thought – what if I succeed and lived in the gold alchemy house, driven the gold alchemy car, showered in the gold alchemy shower, dressed only in the gold alchemy clothes, dined from the gold alchemy plates etc… what if my higher centers awakened and I became conscious????


  83. on July 23, 2007 at 9:00 pm Kid Shelleen

    “I thought I was through with the past, but the past wasn’t through with me.”

    Wish I could remember who said this.


  84. on July 23, 2007 at 9:04 pm Kid Shelleen

    Somebody wrote:

    “because soon I realized that to surround oneself with the gold alchemy one needs a lot of money.”

    You’ve answered your own question here. Everything you need to know about that tool as used in the fof is contained in your realization. Trust yourself.


  85. 80

    “To Bruce 36: Your vulgar ending to your entry does not offend me in the least, but it is very difficult to have a meaningful and constructive discussion when you are so coarse.

    To the moderator and other writers: Whether your a member, former member or otherwise, if it is the aim of this blog to freely express ourselves and debate issues I assume most of you would agree it better to be civil and courtuoes to one another, so please stand up against vulgar insults or please do not allow them to be posted.”

    Well I guess you told us. And here we thought otherwise. Looks to me like we’d better re-join, and get our minds right.

    Or, you could just get bent.


  86. Hello ~ Simple Truth (38) ~

    You wrote ~

    “Whale rider
    first you said: The king of clubs has nothing to do with using parts of centers to displace presence.

    second you said: What is your aim in telling us something we already know?

    these two things are contradictory.
    have you forgot everything that you have learned?

    Mr. Ouspensky called to the King of Clubs the mind besides the machine. and it manipulates the four lower centers for to keep you interested in different themes of imagination.
    And I have not any Doubt, as you.”

    ___________________________

    Hello ‘simple truth’ ~

    When I read what current members are writing on this blog, I try and use creative imagination to picture it as a sort of galleria meeting; then this helps me put your specific brand of ‘scale and relativity’ in right perspective,

    this assists me in understanding that you, fat boy, HC, siddiq are all very ‘right’, so long as there is a left…

    Outside of Oregon House, your ‘personal’ approach simply cannot survive the real world of spiritual ‘heavy weights’, both dead and alive; your ‘points’ belong to fallen churches and perhaps even some new ones, which, in time, will join the rubble of man-gods, who walk this earth looking at the mirrors atop their shoes for proof of god-stepping.

    This ‘fact’ has consistently been proven, by none of the Fellowship of Friends current members on this blog ever having successfully ‘holy reconciled’ the Fellowship of Friends ‘in total’ and ‘specific’ contradictions and hypocrisies;

    everything you say is self-referential and this is the ‘right’ place to start from, yet, as soon as you post your ‘self referential-subjective’ so to use it as a ‘milestone’ in order to gauge others in an objective light, this is simply a dishonest ‘triad’ and provokes reactions from others, that, actually I am not too sure you are aware of, how it is these reactions are ‘in nature’ what they are, reactions that do not clarify anything for you, nor your for us, it’s tennis without the balls…

    This is why (or how) discussions that the sort taking place in here (the blog) do not take place in the galleria; Robert Burton simply does not know how to do it, i.e., how to separate his ego from that of the ego-thirst of others; in the galleria (like all cults) all the ego’s form one ego, one way, one god, one style of approaching ‘left’ with ‘I am right’ so long as we (the FoF) can subjectively ‘prove’ that someone has ‘left’ something behind that we ‘think’ is ‘right’ to fondle for it’s self-referential vibration of being something, like us with ever growing magnetic centers and no SPECIFIC verifications, abandoned, left to itself, like we were, our esoteric egos left in a cruel, conspiracy heavy world order.

    For me, it is absolutely understandable where you are coming from, although very confusing as to exactly where you aim to go in traditional conversation while ‘being subjective’, posing as ‘objective’; to me this is ‘lying’, in the strictest sense of what Gurdjieff spoke of, including Ouspensky.

    Your style of thinking and concluding thought forms is shared by 1700+ people in the FoF, including a few billion more who are living their lives through the practice of provoking others, while sub-consciously these ‘provoked’ are their automatic opposites, (current members vs ex-members) to react in ways so to then have a ‘soft target’ to practice shooting themselves into, so to get a very normal and human sense of self, i.e., ‘I have created drama, therefore I am.’

    See, what I sense is (compliments of Robert Burton’s wiseacring that he’s a real teacher of the spiritual path; do you guys really know what ‘scale & relativity’ such a pronouncement belongs to? I see by your posts here on this blog that you do not, nor have you emotionally connected yourselves to other teachers who are older than their shoe size) that we are all sorta looking for (or found already) a certain ‘code of being’ that’s objective, unpolluted by those who are either at the Path’s beginning, thinking it’s the end, at it’s middle thinking that it’s the end or at the end, thinking it’s the end…

    All this thinking makes the soul a bit dizzy, that’s why the brain stays in the skull after death BTW.

    So much of esoteric education is simply one person standing on the same ‘rope’ of another, not using their heart to sense that this ‘rope’ we all are walking on is ‘one’ really, albeit a very long one, so long that when someone falls off no one notices, ‘thinks’ its normal that the bow in the rope changes from time to time, pays very little attention to the level of attention;

    it takes higher centers to see people SPECIFICALLY; something your ‘school’, nor teacher, practices with any predictable or consistent patience, nor without severe and cold as steel partiality.

    Your posts remind me of my early magnetic centers days when I would ‘think’ that ‘this way, right now’ was the only way;

    it was not until I met with a few experiences and video footage of real teachers that it struck me like a 3 phase electrical shock, that where I stood was in actuality only relative to me, not these who were standing ‘there’, that they had already stood in my footprints, so to speak,

    I could feel it, because they (without any mental effort on my part) immediately upon recognizing/sensing their spiritual being, became my inspirations and muses; they grew with me and still do;

    never has a real teacher or friend (not sure there’s really a difference) ‘died’ in my heart, a real person never dies in the heart, nor you in theirs;

    if they are real, they are not effected by your personal mistakes, nor do they excommunicate those that their level of being cannot handle in the moment because something is occurring in that person that’s bigger than the celebration of one’s ego or crystallized lifestyle dance…

    You can argue all you want about point of view, yet, truly it really does not make the heart larger or one’s presence deeper, it’s simply saying ‘I love you my darling’ while being alone and masturbating in the mirror;

    there’s no ‘darling’ till you loose the ego that feeds on sub-consciously creating contradictions by sub-consciously being one.

    No current member of the Fellowship of Friends has yet to reconcile through conversation on this blog the extreme, criminal contradictions handed out by Robert Burton and his mimicking students upon both current members and ex-members, not to mention those who the Fellowship treats as untouchables due to their ‘sleep’, or not being ‘pretty to the gods’ enough.

    This quote from ‘Fat Boy’, a perfect example of what I just wrote ~

    “Sorry I can not surprise you and you are right that I do not have that access to records nor would I wish to. But neither do the critics, so on one hand we all just subjective. I am not looking at things that detailed but in a general way. I have been in the FOF almost 20 years and have worked with administration as well as Robert directly. I am familiar in the general way of the way things are run at Isis. I do not agree with everything, but at the end of the day I feel things are being managed efficently and legally. The FOF has made mistakes in the past and still do but they make the best possible effort to follow the law.”
    _____________________________________________

    This sort of ‘GENERAL’ taste for spiritual verification and connection with one’s ‘baby conscience’ is what keeps and has established your school as one of Relative Awakening, which, is on the same level as any religious cult on the map; it is pretty much what McDonalds is to freshly ground venison burgers flamed broiled over an oak fire.

    ‘Fat Boy’ says ~ “…nor would I wish to…”

    Here is the ‘key’ to what all of the Fellowship of Friends members posting on this blog is missing, that they are truly beating a dead horse, a dead wax horse at that…

    Until you ‘do wish’, nothing objective will come to you, nothing… other than the ‘fact’ that your own si-do conscience-condition suffers the ailment called ‘Gotta post on the Blog to feel better about feeling that my opinion is fact; so if someone else thinks their opposition is ‘fact’, then it must be true’.

    It is this ‘wish’ not to ‘wish’ that creates the sort of crystallization that’s creeping up your spines, making your access to higher emotional and intellectual more and more narrow;

    I mean, try shooting a piece of hair with a 200lb compound bow… that’s kinda what your doing in the face of a stampeding herd of fleas.

    For me, it is most important to see the disconnect between a party of people who actually, right here on the blog, admit that he or she (belonging to that party) are not looking specifically, rather, like ‘Fat boy’ GENERALLY;

    this is not the Way of the Blog or any traditional spiritual debate, unless it’s a cult debate, which is not really a debate, it’s a belief battle and you can go to Iraq for that,

    at least there you can verify if you’re willing to die for your beliefs or change them in order to survive…

    Also ‘Fat Boy’ ‘generally’ asserts that the critics don’t have the facts either; yet 7500+ pages here, available to the world and beyond, shows otherwise, including several high profile court cases and actual ‘victims’ of the Fellowships truer level of being, not becoming.

    It is far too easy to assume, this is what keeps nations in deficit and credit card companies in business; we assume it will work itself out, while in the present, the very hydrogen of living one’s daily lifestyle with the ingredient of ‘assumption’ embedded in one’s psyche is a cancer of the soul;

    yet, the soul is not the Fellowship of Friends concern, rather, it is the ‘ghost’ of essence that they are building, a ghost that will not escape this struggle of pain and party till it wishes, not through the triad of Robert Burton the Genie, though.

    Perhaps it is in our ‘normal’ nature to create ‘ideals’ that we cannot presently life up to, yet there is a sort of ‘striving’, even if it’s striving not to strive while whatever it is that we are in this one and only moment, right now,

    at least there are those who know their true proximity to ‘striving’ and ‘being’, the exact difference between the actual state of being oneself, while simultaneously becoming ‘not that exactly’;

    whereas in the Fellowship of Friends, you are persuaded to be GENERAL, to strive GENERALLY, to group-think in the GENERAL;

    this is not a school about creating conscious individuals,

    conscientious reactions, yes…

    while Robert Burton is the axle of the merry go round, you bob up and down laughing, having a good time riding those painted horses, sphinxes, dolphins and dragons; yet where are you in the midst of the SPECIFIC?

    If you cannot enter the SPECIFIC within you, nothing real can be done to fundamentally effect the many yous, your struggling self-attached, nothing…

    And if you ‘think’ that the external form of SPECIFIC is not worthy, is not the starting point, then, you are simply thinking and not doing the work we’ve all been charged in some way to inhabit.

    For me, ‘Fat boy and Simple Truth’, (if) you had no doubt in your hearts, then you would not provoke another without honoring them with some gesture of completeness; honor the spirit of this blog with real answers outside your club house box for one; honor conscious curiosity with SPECIFICS that bridge the si-do interval between knowing, understanding, being your questions and answers from the point of their life and ‘death’ into living into another set of wonderings…

    Yet, it seems, through all your postings that you have so far chosen (or wished) to stay, smoking your tires at a perpetually green light;

    you ‘prove’ nothing by your partial discussions, only that you are self conscious (inner considering) of not going to the end of anything you pretend to be objective with;

    To me, one aspect of being objective means to dismiss one’s limitations felt when identified with a particular idea or theory and to embrace ‘it itself’ without mind-opinion activity, my-additions and subtractions;

    the Fellowship of Friends, like ‘Fat boy’, subtract the SPECIFIC and add the GENERAL in places it was never meant to possess; they rearrange objective triads to meet their ego needs, their state of relative awakening and self calming assuredness in The One or The Forty-four;

    after all, why be a momma’s boy to one momma when you can have 44?

    this is called subjectivity, these are prison ways…

    By no means does Robert Burton compromise the king of clubs for higher centers;

    if one ‘new bedroom-student’ says ‘no’ while standing (still clothed) in his bedroom, he has that student go down stairs and bring him up a ‘yes’…

    BTW ‘Fat boy’, (we) do have those ‘records’, so does the IRS and certain ‘bookkeepers’. There is nothing the circle of the Fellowship of Friends can do to pretend to be a triangle or square when it comes down to ‘facts and figures’ proving their not so ‘higher center innocence’…

    Every little mercurial ‘why be formatory’ event and deed is traceable; from the land given to certain ‘favorites’ by Robert Burton, to his own signature as co-signer of certain personal loans for his ‘precious ones’;

    where was this ‘conscious being’s’ signature on the ‘one cent treatment of Edith S. or Dorothy, or, or…? or any who does not fit his ‘perfect self calming picture of beauty and complete mirroring of his pretty practiced smiling face?’

    It is no where, for those who consciously choose to do for themselves first (from essence), before following or asking Robert Burton’s advice (which is usually not to be taken as normal advice, rather, a command), are shunned;

    after all, that’s what Robert Burton is doing all the time, though in a very different way, not from a SPECIFIC essence, rather a very GENERAL way of being egotistical and down right ruthless,

    not unlike his students show themselves on this blog site when asked to please take their ‘point of entry’ to the exit and beyond, rather than simply staying in the movie theater, throwing popcorn and putting jelly beans up thier noses.

    BTW… Fat boy; I hope, for certain karmic reasons (thinking only for you that is) that you are not referring to the late and great rap group called ‘The Fat Boys’…

    You might find yourself in deep doo doo if you are ‘using’ their ‘name’ for some personal ‘tongue in cheek’ reason…

    Yet, deep doo doo might just be what you’re GENERALLY into anyway, so, well, can’t say I didn’t tell ya so…

    ________________________________

    Hello Cyclops (52) ~

    Yes, that one is mine (so far as to how it is that such ‘things’ form themselves within us); wrote it last night…

    _________________________________

    Love to you all.


  87. on July 23, 2007 at 9:14 pm Kid Shelleen

    The gritty edge of the verbal discourse here amuses me to no end. I would hate to see it go away.

    “What we have here is a failure to communicate.”
    –Strother Martin / Cool Hand Luke


  88. 80

    “Your vulgar ending to your entry does not offend me in the least”

    Looks to me like you are a liar…

    “but it is very difficult to have a meaningful and constructive discussion when you are so coarse.”

    …with an overabundance of buffers and an extraordinary picture of yourself.

    Or it could be that we, or I, are not yet worthy of your more evolved beatitudes, unless they are surrounded by the respect you no doubt feel you deserve.

    And don’t let me keep you here. I’m sure the captive audience of your peers would love to sit at your feet and listen to your pontifications. Why cast your pearls before swine.


  89. on July 23, 2007 at 9:18 pm Simple Truth

    Revelations 12:9 that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, wich deceiveth the whole world.

    Phillokalia: When you hear that is necesary to withdraw from the world, you must first understand the term ‘world’ not in its everyday meaning, but in its purely inward significancew.

    Do not think never that you know all the tricks of your King of Clubs.

    Do you think that is not necesary make efforts to awake?
    you are being deceiveth by your own Devil,

    The third state is not a gift, we must work in order to achieve it.

    The King of Clubs is happy having the control of all your mechanical reactions to the events, and for the other side, we have a part that realize that you are asleep, and wants to make some things for to act Counsciosly.


  90. on July 23, 2007 at 9:18 pm Veronicapoe

    > “I thought I was through with the past, but the past
    > wasn’t through with me.”

    >> Wish I could remember who said this.

    What a great quote. Google tells me it’s from the movie Magnolia:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0175880/quotes


  91. 88 Simple truth

    Hello, hello…anyone in there?


  92. Somebody, #81, wrote:

    “I was thinking more today what did I learn from the School. I found something I would like to bring for a discussion here. The idea of Alchemy.”

    I think “alchemy” was just another tool of repression and self-delusion — that is, creating a “Potemkin Village” that covered over the real world with bright, shiny objects. Think about RB’s motivation for telling us we could change something that is really part of us — it makes everyone conform to HIS likes and dislikes, while quite nicely lending a lustre of authenticity to what is at heart just his greed. A nice little justification for his lust for all things material — “I’m just feeding my essence with these gold alchemy cufflinks. You left them at the hotel? Cancel the meeting so we can go back and get them!”


  93. on July 23, 2007 at 9:27 pm Kid Shelleen

    “I thought I was through with the past, but the past
    > wasn’t through with me.”

    >> Wish I could remember who said this.

    What a great quote. Google tells me it’s from the movie Magnolia:

    That’s it. Thanks Veronica.

    I remember hearing it in the movie and I started sobbing. My wife asked me what was wrong and I couldn’t even begin to tell her. I used it as a mantra for quite awhile…


  94. Hello ‘Somebody’ ~

    You wrote ~

    “But that probably the only thing which still holds me in the school – the thought – what if I succeed and lived in the gold alchemy house, driven the gold alchemy car, showered in the gold alchemy shower, dressed only in the gold alchemy clothes, dined from the gold alchemy plates etc… what if my higher centers awakened and I became conscious????”
    ___________________________

    “… what if…? ”

    You’d probably not tolerate the golden showers…

    ___________________________

    ;. {


  95. Fat Boy writes: “if it is the aim of this blog to freely express ourselves and debate issues I assume most of you would agree it better to be civil and courtuoes to one another, so please stand up against vulgar insults or please do not allow them to be posted.”

    Egads. Bruce, would you be so kind as to drive home your point more gently next time?

    Kidding.

    Personally, I’m much more concerned about the posting of lies on the blog than four-letter words.

    But, you know, I’m not asking the Sheik to “please not allow [your lies, Fat Boy] to be posted.”

    It’s one thing when people disagree. However… Lying, obfuscation, disinformation, and flat-out ignorance will get a response on this blog, and sometimes it won’t a be “nice” one. I’m not sure anyone is better at recognizing this b.s. than Bruce.


  96. Simple Truth (around) 88

    Revelations 12:9 that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, wich deceiveth the whole world.

    Phillokalia: When you hear that is necesary to withdraw from the world, you must first understand the term ‘world’ not in its everyday meaning, but in its purely inward significancew.

    Do not think never that you know all the tricks of your King of Clubs.

    Do you think that is not necesary make efforts to awake?
    you are being deceiveth by your own Devil,

    The third state is not a gift, we must work in order to achieve it.

    The King of Clubs is happy having the control of all your mechanical reactions to the events, and for the other side, we have a part that realize that you are asleep, and wants to make some things for to act Counsciosly.

    *****************

    “A moralist pronouncing the word ‘man’ will invariably introduce into it the idea of good and evil, and so on, and so on.” -G. I. Gurdjieff

    “But what can be called black magic has always one definite characteristic. This characteristic is the tendency to use people for some, even the best of aims, without their knowledge and understanding, either by producing in them faith and infatuation or by acting upon them through fear.”
    -G. I. Gurdjieff

    In a cult there is no better manipulative device than creating an irrational fear in the cult members over an imaginary supernatural evil.

    The character “Simple Truth” has the psychological maturity of a backward teenager, this is the quality of “student” the FoF is currently reduced to. This is one clear sign of a descending octave, the difference in intelligence between those that have left and those still involved.


  97. Bruce,

    Thank you for not being vulgar in your last email. Although I do not agree with your tone and critical sarcastic comments and calling me a liar. I really do not want to offend you because I know you will come out attacking but the way in which you address people is not a reflection of them but only of you.

    I am not looking for respect only for civility.

    To 85: Why would I be in deep dodo, even if it was connecting this name to the band? It is connected to a nick name I use to have anyway.


  98. 94:

    I am not lying in anyway, and whether you believe me or not I am just doing my best to speak from my heart and be sincere. I do respect others who do not share my opinion, but have little respect for sarcastic and insultive comments from some people. In any case I actually am just giving my personal feelings and shared some minor facts on how I see them; just like most of us on this blog.


  99. 96 Fat Boy

    “I am not looking for respect only for civility.”

    Then get the hell off the blog.

    You’ll get neither from me. Now you’re forewarned.


  100. 97

    “but have little respect for sarcastic and insultive comments from some people.”

    That’s too bad asshole.


  101. Fat Boy

    Anything else I can give you to motivate to crawl back under you rock?


  102. on July 23, 2007 at 10:02 pm Simple Truth

    Graduates, when you were in the FOF your thought was totally the oposite, or you can not remember?
    and now?
    what do you want to say? that you allways have the absolut truth.
    descending octave is your thought because it works without counsciousness, you think that you are allways right.
    thats the psychological maturity of a child.
    this is a comprobation that we have not Unity.


  103. Pardon my mistyping. For your benefit Fat Boy:

    Anything else I can give you to motivate you to crawl back under your rock?


  104. Actually I like to think of Bruce as a priest who carries a 44 magnum, twin like, one for each thigh for the punks who just don’t give a damn and do actually “feel lucky” enough, while not seeing how unlucky, feeling lucky, can be.


  105. on July 23, 2007 at 10:09 pm Simple Truth

    What happen to you Mrs. Bruce?

    do you want the blog just for you?

    Mrs. Bruce do you think you are God?

    this blog belongs you?

    You want to expulse everybody that not thinks like you.

    again, what a close mind.


  106. FB wrote: “I am not lying in anyway, and whether you believe me or not I am just doing my best to speak from my heart and be sincere.”

    I will believe that when you can sincerely describe some of your serious concerns and doubts about the Fellowship. You may have tremendously strong ‘valuation’ for the work ideas, and you may have had positive experiences in the FoF, but tell us what troubles you. When I hear that, I’ll listen a lot more closely.

    In all honesty, is everything good? Does anything you read here have merit? Tell me it does, and that you have trouble sleeping on some nights because of the same concerns that we’ve expressed, and I will listen.


  107. Fat Boy ~

    Rap groups are not called ‘bands’… Thought you’d like to know before you get killed in LA by a slip of the tongue…


  108. 104 Simple Truth

    What happen to you Mrs. Bruce?
    do you want the blog just for you?
    Mrs. Bruce do you think you are God?
    this blog belongs you?
    You want to expulse everybody that not thinks like you.
    again, what a close mind.

    My simple friend,
    Yes I want the blog just for me
    Yes, I think I’m God
    Yes, the blog belongs to me
    Yes, I want to “expulse” everybody that not thinks like me.
    Yes, and stop trying to open my happily closed mind.

    Now, don’t you feel silly? Or is that capacity gone for you?


  109. Simple Truth: “what a close mind.”

    Anyone who can read this blog and who refuses to be affected by it, and who remains resolute in one’s allegiance to the Fellowship and Robert Burton without an ounce of doubt…

    That is a closed mind.


  110. 104

    And by the way, it’s “Mr.” Bruce to you.


  111. BTW Fat Boy ~

    A “dodo” is a bird, not something you’d find piled atop your sacrum, while bent over in Robert’s bedroom.


  112. 104

    And I’m beginning to doubt your poor “English” bullshit. No one posting here is that fucking illiterate.


  113. on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:01 am
    9 Simple Truth
    To Be Present is the main thing, that we do in the FOF.
    and thats all.

    I nomanate this as the single dumbest post so far on the blog. This is the exact mind frame that justifies the ignoring of all the play of crime.
    To be present is not enough.
    It is part of a larger whole.


  114. Dear Bruce and anyone else who cares to comment.
    I wonder if you can give me your opinion on a link?
    No joking Im asking because I respect your opinion and because I have been taken in by such things as you pointed out previously and am despite having worked a lot against it still quite naive by nature it seems. I hope to hear back from you. The best to you Cy.
    Please tell me its bullshit.


  115. on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:09 am10 Fat Boy
    To Living The Question, 508.

    “Sorry I can not surprise you and you are right that I do not have that access to records nor would I wish to. But neither do the critics, so on one hand we all just subjective. I am not looking at things that detailed but in a general way. I have been in the FOF almost 20 years and have worked with administration as well as Robert directly. I am familiar in the general way of the way things are run at Isis. I do not agree with everything, but at the end of the day I feel things are being managed efficently and legally. The FOF has made mistakes in the past and still do but they make the best possible effort to follow the law”

    on the other hand this is pretty stupid.
    It is a serious blow to my imagination of an intelligent being that someone this dumb can say “I have been in the Fellowship 20 years”

    In those 20 years did you read all the books or like many become accustomed to only taking in what Robert approvedand had published in the journals. This is no different than the Jehovahs witnesses that say study the bible and then want to give you a study guide. They do not realize that this is not the bible. Fellowship of Friends members have so much material from the old journals that they fail to see they have been taken away from the study of the source materials and a balanced approach.


  116. 88 Simple Truth: “Do you think that is not necesary make efforts to awake? you are being deceiveth by your own Devil, The third state is not a gift, we must work in order to achieve it. The King of Clubs is happy having the control of all your mechanical reactions to the events, and for the other side, we have a part that realize that you are asleep, and wants to make some things for to act Counsciosly.”

    Don’t get me wrong, I sympathise with your fervent beliefs. You’ve been told these things, or read them, and you’ve decided to believe them. I did exactly the same as you, for many years. When you’ve invested so much of your personality in these ideas it’s difficult to admit they’re imaginary. I would just suggest that you try as hard as you can to keep a little scepticism – hold on to the possibility that there’s maybe a 1% chance that everything you believe is wrong. Then at a future date something more real might emerge.

    good luck, RN


  117. on July 23, 2007 at 10:36 pm Simple Truth

    Mrs. Bruce describes you better because you look like a girl.
    and 2b suck Bruce.

    I dont exist, i´m not nothing
    and from now I give you alone.
    now you can feel better without nobody posting things that you dont want to understand.

    and the lenguish is not important as that has being said.

    goodbye girls forever.


  118. Using the Full name of the Fellowship of Friends , the name Robert Burton and the name fourth way in your post’s helps keep the blog high up on search engines.
    The existance of the blog is the single most important event in the Fellowship of Friends since it began.
    Just having a resource where prospective members, ex-members and currant members share information introduces a new possibilities.


  119. Cyclops ~

    It’s bullshit…

    so there.


  120. Simple Truth (around) 101

    Graduates, when you were in the FOF your thought was totally the oposite, or you can not remember?
    and now?

    what do you want to say? that you allways have the absolut truth.

    descending octave is your thought because it works without counsciousness, you think that you are allways right.

    thats the psychological maturity of a child.
    this is a comprobation that we have not Unity.

    **************

    While in the FoF I was suspected and accused of being a “destructive influence” even then. My king of clubs suspected that Burton was not to be trusted and that the extreme devotional display of the general population was inherently false. I even spoke out using a kind of metaphorical code (from the Fellowship Forum):

    “You think it important to know what great things you will do when you are strong and free. It is just this vision that hides from you your petty meanness, your feigning and your fakery. Your fellows scramble with you for the attention of the ‘Wazoo’ and all together you have become house flies. Men must become bugs and you can be no different than the rest. Bugs who have become men simply speak freely and wisely and in doing so they create more bugs and more men. Men have certain possibilities–for instance they can refuse to live like insects–and a man who knows this is already strong and free.”

    “descending octave is your thought because it works without counsciousness, you think that you are allways right.”

    Translation from cult-speak: because you are capable of mounting a rational argument, rather than relying on the irrational, convoluted, pseudo-mystical nonsense that has me and my fellows emotionally secured within the mentality of cult, you must be under the influence of the King of Clubs and therefore not remembering yourself. Those of us that remember ourselves always have confused, underdeveloped lower centers that can only communicate through various indoctrinating quotes that have been distorted from their original intent and bent to justify our self-righteous stupidity.


  121. I must first express my thanks to the patient gentleman at the gatehouse who was indeed ‘present’ to his memorising functions – ask him to relate the incident – where lower centres combine, pyramid-like, at the apices of the higher parts and allowed me to express myself (agitated and nervous from my adrenal functions, when I am unnerved and do not know how to act – ’tis the warrior blood). I left my local pub after my paranoid-schizophrenic suffer friend who was running the bar gave me two small glasses of water and my ‘punky’ venus-mercurial friend Phil bought me a glass of real ale (“It may be beer is best” – THE SECRET PEOPLE – by G K Chesterton),while the presenter on the TV expounded the details of the Kuwait invasion. I talked to Phil’s wife, Jane, whose mother has suffered from cyclic bi-polar affective disorder as differentiated from my event-sparked disorder (I would trust Diana-Kay on a clinical explanation!) and promised Jane that I would take my double-dose (doctor advised) of Olanzapine as soon as I returned home. The reason for contacting the gatehouse was to inform those who are expecting more rantings this evening that my computer internet connection was down because of extreme weather conditions – FLOOD IS AN UNDERSTATEMENT – the system was experiencing problems. However, the mere act of confronting my own fear at verbal communication in uncertain circumstances, gave way to a slowing down of my functions and relaxing with the TV programme about Moslem family life in Britain (“Treat the alien resident as your brother” – Bible). I tried another way into the internet through the main Google connection and not home-page and ‘wonder-of-wonders’ Fellowship of Friends discussion site top-of-page. I hope even Girard will understand this explanation, since it is the role of one’s Master to control, not indulge, I might stress, ONE’S OWN lower functions. Since I mentioned Rodney Collin in a previous sending I will try to quote correctly from ‘Harmony’ – “Be easy and gentle with those you have once startled (shocked?)”.

    I leave you as I try to work myself into accumulator-balancing first-state with the third-force of a quote from ‘Preface to Leaves of Grass’, which should appeal to those who have risen above form and belonging and moved toward human service:-

    “Love the earth and sun and the animals, despise riches, give alms to everyone who asks, stand up for the stupid and crazy, devote your income and labour to others, hate tyrants, argue not concerning God, have patience and indulgence toward the people, take off your hat to nothing known or unknown or to any man or number of men, go freely with powerful uneducated persons and with the young and mothers of families, read these leaves in the open air every season of every year of your life, re-examine all you have been told at school or church or in any book, dismiss whatever insults your own soul, and your very flesh shall be a great poem and have the richest fluency not only in its words but in the silent lines of its lips and face and between the lashes of your eyes and in every motion of and joint of your body”

    Goodnight and may your God go with you (Dave Allen – comedian, passed on).


  122. 81 Somebody: “It was said that the only mechanical part of your essence you can change is your alchemy and if you work on alchemy eventually you will be living in the refine environment suitable to your higher centers and your higher centers will “wake up” more often, because of the finer energy (hydrogen) circulating in your machine.”

    This is all totally imaginary. “Alchemy” is one of the only original ideas that RB came up with, and one of the most ridiculous in the FoF. Sure some people have better taste in some areas than other people and some can distinguish more precisely between different colours or sounds or whatever, but this has nothing whatsoever to do with “awakening”.

    If what you’re after is different states of consciousness, those can and do happen anywhere. If you want to be an awakened person, check out who this “you” is who wants this, as Janna suggested above.

    The principle results of working on alchemy are to increase one’s feeling of superiority to others, especially “life people”, and to strengthen the imaginary assumption that one is “waking up” by eg wearing more expensive clothes.

    cheers, RN


  123. 30 simple minded

    again my answer is No, I´m not above nobody, I only wish to share some quotes from Counscious men.

    Something you don’t get, which may just be a result of not being an english speaker. The people you address and want to teach -evolution 101 by Robert Burton to are already graduates- it is they who are trying their best to teach you the next step.

    It is you who are too formatory, too mechanical to willful to make the effort to be present while reading to let in something new.

    Try doing what you write about, be the words, divide attention while reading, allow time to take in new ideas without judgement without needing to be right or wrong. Best of all if you are sincere about your work allow the idea that you are wrong to penetrate.


  124. on July 23, 2007 at 10:56 pm Living the Questions

    To Somebody, post #81
    The idea of alchemy, as taught and practiced in the Fellowship fo Friends, has been quite skewed towards external manifestations that require investing large sums of money, which is an extension of the Fourth Way as promulgated and sold by Robert Burton. Alchemy is esoterically about the transmutation of coarser energies into finer energies, as in Hydrogen 12. This may or may not have anything at all to do with the fine impressions that money can buy. For very little money, any of us can access some of the most inspiring and transforming impressions on the planet. Go out into the wild places such as scenic rivers, the hills and mountains, ocean beaches and tide pools, our magnificent national and state parks, or for that matter take a hand lens or binoculars and just go out into you own backyard. Also, art galleries and many concerts are often quite affordable. No money can buy what is yours for free, which is the power of living in the present moment, where all alchemical transmutation occurs. If ‘fancy stuff’ is all that is keeping you in the Fellowship, I say, “Get a life”. Who knows, you might just wake up gazing at a sunset out over the Yosemite Valley.
    -Nancy G


  125. Thanks 106, I see what you mean, although I think I would have to be alittle more deflamotory before they would want to kill me. But point taken!

    To 105 2B. Thank you for your entry, it is well written and I believe the questions are legitimate and sincere. I am a little hesitant to answer the questions you pose because of the comments on 98, 99, and 100, and maybe my time has come to leave take Bruce advise and leave this blog.

    I am actually at work now and would really have to take time to write those answers to the questions. If the tone changes on this blog maybe I will in the future. Just in short, Yes somethings trouble me but not to the point where I would want to leave the FOF.


  126. on July 23, 2007 at 10:58 pm Skeptical Optimist

    81 Somebody

    Alchemy (in FoF) = institutionalized bigotry

    Alchemy (in FoF) = a doublewide with “gold” faucets

    Alchemy (in FoF) = revulsion of the “higher” for the “lower”

    JoelF


  127. 116 Simple Truth.

    I hope you’re not getting so offended by Bruce’s assaults that you’re going to stop posting? Why not just ignore him? Your contributions are valuable. It’s possible to have a decent discussion here if you avoid the mud slinging. RN


  128. 124 Fat Boy.

    Same applies to you. You’re contributing something useful. If you can ignore Bruce’s insults you could do some good here. It’s easy to skip over his posts and read what interests you.

    RN


  129. 113 Cyclops

    I don’t think it’s bullshit. DU is bad shit.


  130. 118. Unoanimo.
    I really hope so. thanks for addressing it. Also thanks for your creative writing, you seem able to work in a number of styles the one which grew in you the other night was really beautifull. lty. cy.


  131. Thanks Bruce, despite Unoanimos comment I still had reservations , like him or her I would like to think other wise but when I see Rumsfeldt and cheney doing a laurel and hardy act in front of the press when asked directly about experimental weapons being used in Iraq their body language says they are lying through their teeth. Thanks for getting back to me on it. cy.


  132. 129 Cy

    On: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium

    2/3 of the way down on the right is a graph representing a Basra hospital’s incidents since the invasion with the us of DU.


  133. 127

    Yes, that works.

    Or you can put fingers in ears, close eyes and repeat the mantra very loudly …”I can’t hear you” until the parade’s gone by.


  134. 127 Rhino Neal

    A question: You really want a discourse with the proponents of such pure crap as Simple Truth’s and Fat Boys’? Seriously?
    Have you found ANYTHING redeeming in their rubbish? I found it no different than the drivel from HC, LOL, and the other A.H.’s. In fact, think it’s the same small coterie of A.H.’s.

    But, hey, if you did, more power to you.


  135. 127

    “you could do some good here.”

    Neal, by chance, did you fall asleep with a strange looking pod on the floor next to the bed?


  136. 133/134 Bruce: I kind of admire the intensity and sincerity (usually) of these guys, although I don’t personally agree with a lot of what they say. If we accept that one function of the blog is to provide a forum where the current beliefs of Fellowship members can be discussed, then we at least have to give them the space to express their opinions. Didn’t you believe most of that stuff once? I did, much to my amazement.

    cheers, RN


  137. Hey Cyclops (130) ~

    Just a note; that confirmation of it’s being BS was self referential, it is not to say that Depleted Uranium is not some serious stuff; it’s the hype and the additional ‘conspiracy theory hypnotism’ they’re cranking out, that’s BS to me: (I believe) that you can get the facts out of such presentations without believing the blinding light of the sensationalism and victim-hood identities it’s feeding;

    after all, when push comes shove, what you actually do with the information, how it makes you feel, what sides of yourself it feeds, what does it strengthen (automatically) without one’s ‘conscious-sieve’ applied to it, this to me, these are better questions for me to ask, rather than “Where can I find more stuff like this.”

    Eventually people go around living like Mel Gibson in the movie ‘Conspiracy Theory’, though internally, all sorts of freaky diseases and psychosis phenomenons have developed from such paranoia, worry, resentment, hate, hatred of the stranger, love of a heaven that’s simply not applicable to the devil yearning for it and so on…

    It’s wild out here, for sure… there’s nearly always a little truth in a joke, the same goes for conspiracy theories; pinch of salt though, not a column.

    I used to like reading about Area 51; the ‘browns’ and the ‘grays’, the brand new airports that are not being used, etc.

    Yet, one day I asked, “What does any of this have to do with the fourth dimension, the astral body, the conscience, growing being, love, etc.? Nothing… so, well, these days I read the blog and try to see this day as very different than the last or any to arrive.

    I sorta agree with Bruce concerning the validity of such beginnings as Fat Boy and Simple Truth; I mean starting a Lamborghini with a screw driver when the key in already in the ignition is a little silly; but hey, some people have that kind of money to do such things.

    I sensed a change of tides for at least ‘Fat Boy’; seems that ‘Simple Truth’ dove off the shallow end, doing to Bruce what Fat Boy was whining about; geez FB, it seems you can also get that kind of treatment from your own kind, so, why bother deluding yourself that the blog-law stops here in cyber space; try telling Robert Burton that you don’t trust him, see where it gets you, or simply ask Collin L., he did and can tell you much (maybe).

    I would welcome anyone back so long as they’re not here simply to talk to themselves, otherwise, what good is an invitation if all the guests live in your broom closet?
    _______________________

    l.t.y.a.


  138. Fat Boy are you actually fat or do you ride a Harley?

    #123 living the questions: That’s what I thought Alchemy was About.

    Is there thought transference going on? Yesterday, I was thinking about horsey’s that go around and around. And, today I’m reading the blog and the thought shows up.

    “……the axle of the merry go round, you bob up and down laughing having a good time riding those painted horses”.

    And, that’s not all. I’m having difficulties with a bicycle trailer. A nut backed up to another nut, causing the AXLE to tangle up with the race which chewed causing the bearings to fall out and the wheel to want to fly off.

    Anyway, this blog is something else. Leaving for a couple of hours reminds me of the time I was sent to Lansing, Michigan to pick up a rig at the Diamond Reo plant.

    Somewhere in Missouri or Arkansas very early morning, I stopped at a truck stop. The driver nearby said, “do you want to race’? I said, “sure”. My truck had wooden mud flaps and a speed governor. Nothing over 55 miles per hour.

    He was driving a furniture van. So, we took off. Little by little he went ahead of me. Finally, after so many hills and dales, all I could see were his trailer lights in the far distance.

    This blog is a furniture truck.


  139. 135

    Simple Truthisms…Do you consider the regurgitated platitudes of possibly conscious “others”, through Simple Truth, as “a forum where the current beliefs of Fellowship members can be discussed”? I find nothing of his or her’s posts coming from “the person” themselves. I can go to a book store for this crap, and I don’t need anyone preaching “other’s stuff” to me.

    Wouldn’t you rather discuss with members “real shit” and not mindless quotations from an automaton, or the blind defense of the indefensible, or the judgments from someone who would find it difficult to exist in a more real world, than the sheltered harem estate?

    These people are the same people, though in a different context, as the people who stand on the corner and hand out the National Alliance pamphlets. They are so far from the intelligencia of the core group or cult that they represent a caricature of the “follower”.

    If it’s good for you, cool. Personally I’m embarrassed FOR THEM, but I can just as easily stand aside and let them float their shit if it floats your boat.


  140. #67 Fat Boy wrote:

    To Dick Moron 65:

    “To make it clear I do not have a sexual relationship with the Teacher, and Robert is positively responsive to his students whether sex or not is involved. With that being said, I believe the tone of your comment brings this blog to a lower level.”

    Fat Boy:
    I’m sorry my language and tone offended you. Obviously you have not experienced the ultra-inner-circle verification of having RB “receive you.” Must be the lifetime thing I always heard about. You could have been one of those lower life-timers that RB would speak about. He was always positive about your possibilities, but, well– how do I say this without offending you– my feeling was he considered you all to be very well intentioned losers, less so if you could write a fat check.
    Or the clue to me should have been your nick, Fat Boy. You are probably not the right body type as well as being stuck in a lower lifetime. Still–Keep working on yourself!

    I am very aware of the sarcastic nature of my communications. It seems to be an uncontrollable response to other’s constant lying. I will say for the record that in this case I write from direct experience. Maybe it is better to post more true stories based on my actual experience. No sarcasm, just succinct, very descriptive facts of events that did occur. Would you like that better ? I have a few more true stories, so watch out. They may make you a little uncomfortable.


  141. “And, that’s not all. I’m having difficulties with a bicycle trailer. A nut backed up to another nut, causing the AXLE to tangle up with the race which chewed causing the bearings to fall out and the wheel to want to fly off.”

    ___________________________

    Yes, this happens very often in Robert’s bedroom also; they wrote the book on such events I would only suppose; one of the boys might be able to assist in this ‘denying force’, though I would advise to keep it ‘over the phone’.

    Word!


  142. 138 Bruce: “Do you consider the regurgitated platitudes of possibly conscious “others”, through Simple Truth, as “a forum where the current beliefs of Fellowship members can be discussed”? I find nothing of his or her’s posts coming from “the person” themselves.”

    Agreed. But maybe it’s better than there being nothing at all coming from the FoF side?

    BTW I’m getting quite attached to that pod.

    RN


  143. 141

    I understand. But to me, there IS nothing coming from the FOF side.

    But at least we’re amusing all the members who are reading the blog on the sly.

    And it it’s a great place to announce FOF parking info.


  144. Perhaps some of this applies…

    ================================

    samvak.tripod.com/journal79.html

    The Cult of the Narcissist
    By: Dr. Sam Vaknin

    The narcissist is the guru at the centre of a cult. Like other gurus, he demands complete obedience from his flock: his spouse, his offspring, other family members, friends, and colleagues. He feels entitled to adulation and special treatment by his followers. He punishes the wayward and the straying lambs. He enforces discipline, adherence to his teachings, and common goals. The less accomplished he is in reality – the more stringent his mastery and the more pervasive the brainwashing.

    The – often involuntary – members of the narcissist’s mini-cult inhabit a twilight zone of his own construction. He imposes on them a shared psychosis, replete with persecutory delusions, “enemies”, mythical narratives, and apocalyptic scenarios if he is flouted.

    The narcissist’s control is based on ambiguity, unpredictability, fuzziness, and ambient abuse. His ever-shifting whims exclusively define right versus wrong, desirable and unwanted, what is to be pursued and what to be avoided. He alone determines the rights and obligations of his disciples and alters them at will.

    The narcissist is a micro-manager. He exerts control over the minutest details and behaviours. He punishes severely and abuses withholders of information and those who fail to conform to his wishes and goals.

    The narcissist does not respect the boundaries and privacy of his reluctant adherents. He ignores their wishes and treats them as objects or instruments of gratification. He seeks to control both situations and people compulsively.

    He strongly disapproves of others’ personal autonomy and independence. Even innocuous activities, such as meeting a friend or visiting one’s family require his permission. Gradually, he isolates his nearest and dearest until they are fully dependent on him emotionally, sexually, financially, and socially.

    He acts in a patronising and condescending manner and criticises often. He alternates between emphasising the minutest faults (devalues) and exaggerating the talents, traits, and skills (idealises) of the members of his cult. He is wildly unrealistic in his expectations – which legitimises his subsequent abusive conduct.

    The narcissist claims to be infallible, superior, talented, skilful, omnipotent, and omniscient. He often lies and confabulates to support these unfounded claims. Within his cult, he expects awe, admiration, adulation, and constant attention commensurate with his outlandish stories and assertions. He reinterprets reality to fit his fantasies.

    His thinking is dogmatic, rigid, and doctrinaire. He does not countenance free thought, pluralism, or free speech and doesn’t brook criticism and disagreement. He demands – and often gets – complete trust and the relegation to his capable hands of all decision-making.

    He forces the participants in his cult to be hostile to critics, the authorities, institutions, his personal enemies, or the media – if they try to uncover his actions and reveal the truth. He closely monitors and censors information from the outside, exposing his captive audience only to selective data and analyses.

    The narcissist’s cult is “missionary” and “imperialistic”. He is always on the lookout for new recruits – his spouse’s friends, his daughter’s girlfriends, his neighbours, new colleagues at work. He immediately attempts to “convert” them to his “creed” – to convince them how wonderful and admirable he is. In other words, he tries to render them Sources of Narcissistic Supply.

    Often, his behaviour on these “recruiting missions” is different to his conduct within the “cult”. In the first phases of wooing new admirers and proselytising to potential “conscripts” – the narcissist is attentive, compassionate, empathic, flexible, self-effacing, and helpful. At home, among the “veterans” he is tyrannical, demanding, wilful, opinionated, aggressive, and exploitative.

    As the leader of his congregation, the narcissist feels entitled to special amenities and benefits not accorded the “rank and file”. He expects to be waited on hand and foot, to make free use of everyone’s money and dispose of their assets liberally, and to be cynically exempt from the rules that he himself established (if such violation is pleasurable or gainful).

    In extreme cases, the narcissist feels above the law – any kind of law. This grandiose and haughty conviction leads to criminal acts, incestuous or polygamous relationships, and recurrent friction with the authorities.

    Hence the narcissist’s panicky and sometimes violent reactions to “dropouts” from his cult. There’s a lot going on that the narcissist wants kept under wraps. Moreover, the narcissist stabilises his fluctuating sense of self-worth by deriving Narcissistic Supply from his victims. Abandonment threatens the narcissist’s precariously balanced personality.

    Add to that the narcissist’s paranoid and schizoid tendencies, his lack of introspective self-awareness, and his stunted sense of humour (lack of self-deprecation) and the risks to the grudging members of his cult are clear.

    The narcissist sees enemies and conspiracies everywhere. He often casts himself as the heroic victim (martyr) of dark and stupendous forces. In every deviation from his tenets he espies malevolent and ominous subversion. He, therefore, is bent on disempowering his devotees. By any and all means.

    The narcissist is dangerous.


  145. 141

    And I’m sure the pod is just as attached to you you sweet thing.


  146. 28 etc. Bruce

    > You have become a parasite feeding on the blog.

    You are talking about yourself.

    > That’s you, my cowardly troll.

    You are talking about yourself.

    > Are you so aware of your own absurdity that you will not own who you are? So far you are only an anonymous little weasel.

    You are talking about yourself.

    > You are only speaking your words so you can hear them. You are the fool of the farce.

    You are talking about yourself.

    >Did you pull that out of your ass all by yourself. You are a deeply disturbed individual.

    You are talking about yourself.

    > Hello, hello…anyone in there?

    You are talking about yourself.

    >That’s too bad asshole.

    You are talking about yourself.

    >Anything else I can give you to motivate to crawl back under you rock?

    You are talking about yourself.

    > Now, don’t you feel silly? Or is that capacity gone for you?

    You are talking about yourself.

    >And I’m beginning to doubt your poor “English” bullshit. No one posting here is that fucking illiterate.

    You are talking about yourself.

    It’s sad to watch you do this to yourself.

    FormerFofer
    (1978-1992)


  147. 145

    Cute, and oh so profound.


  148. And sooooooo clever.

    I would almost think that you are……wait……wait….wait…”SIMPLE TRUTH” …who disappeared of the face of the earth just a little while ago.

    It’s a God Damn miracle.


  149. In 2 hours we should have made it to the 2000 visits to this blog in one day mark; just as I suspected…

    BTW Bruce; that letter ‘Fat Boy’ was “skimming” so profoundly, similar to the conscience skimming taught on the fly by Robert Burton’s ‘Yours-truly-example’ of fly fishing in the Sahara for flies…

    According to my sources this letter was sent to every resident of Oregon House, nearly 1200 people (non-students too); so says the folk…

    So, ‘Fat Boy’ and ‘Simple Truth’ watch for those burning enneagrams in your front lawns, this has been one of the driest seasons in California for a long time; so keep a loaded water hose next to your bee bee guns, you never know…
    ____________________

    l.t.y.a.


  150. on July 24, 2007 at 1:39 am Laughing Love

    Hello All.

    Simple Truth, #9, wrote:

    “To Be Present is the main thing, that we do in the FOF.
    and thats all.”

    REVISED:

    All we do in the FOF is give presents to RB. That is all.

    LL


  151. There are a relatively small number of people doing most of the talking here, but a lot of quiet ones out there watching and listening. A lot of current members. Some of them are still sitting at the front of the room next to Robert at meetings. Some holding his hand under the Galleria breakfast table. Some of them own houses up on the hill. Some of them have kids in LCS, jobs at RVW. But they’re reading. It feels like behind-the-iron-curtain just before perestroika. People watching, hoping, fearing, and talking very quietly to one another, often in code, because you never know for sure who the hard-core devotees are. Carrying the metaphor, this blog is Radio Free Fellowship. I suggest we not get “blogged” down by Simple Truth or Fat Boy. It’s not that they’re idiots; they’re simply not very relevant. Bass Ackwards is relevant. David (#5:121) is relevant. Their voices represent the hundreds who are still IN but trying to carve their own path, maybe through the middle, maybe simply OUT but without the baggage, maybe just trying to understand how it all happened before they leave. The FOF Taliban on this blog who shout their asinine platitudes and take photographing Bruce as their righteous-and-oh-so-noble cause don’t deserve the bandwidth we grant them by responding. Every once in a while someone like Confused comes along and surprises us by telling the real truth, showing what everyone is really thinking. That some do still respect Robert Burton. They’ve seen he has certain powers. They know he’s helped people in ways besides financial. Maybe he even helped them once or twice when they really needed it…and yes, maybe he’s brain-washed them a little. Yet they are here reading this now, reading the incremental-but-gradually-whole truth, and being forced to do something with it. On the other hand, I know for a fact that many current members now regard Robert as nothing more or less than a grotesque cartoon character. Kind of like really gross anime. Compromised and ridiculous, but possibly a necessary evil in their vision of a loving, art-focused community. Their main question: should I bail now, or hang on a little longer to help my friends, arrange my parachute, understand where it all went bad?

    A few questions I personally think should be asked more often: Why was it essential for FOF-style evolution that Isis/Apollo/Renaissance be preserved as the seat of squalid, deeply entrenched poverty over decades? How can anyone in their right mind think Isis lifestyle is or ever was actually good for their children, YOUR children? How much more time out of your brief lifetime are you willing to throw away, your precious time bleeding away like good money after bad, because waking up from the FOF dream is just too unthinkable? When do the wives realize that their hubbies didn’t just have a few isolated experiences of sex with RB, but still do it every time they go to a wine cellar dinner? When does the young newlywed realize how at-risk she is of a nasty sexual disease from that gorgeous RB-boy import she snagged? When do we stop being mad and just become sad, because it is all too sad and pathetic and soul-sucking? Maybe that’s the whole question: RB sucked a lot of cocks, but what about the souls, your souls, that he continues to suck and suck…and suck?

    Not “with love” today. Screw that.

    Joseph G


  152. on July 24, 2007 at 1:49 am Laughing Love

    Hello All.

    Have you noticed that is much easier to read posts that are split up? In other words, split long paragraphs up.

    It is very hard on the eyes to read big chunks of text.

    It is probable that people won’t read them.

    Just a suggestion.

    LL


  153. For all Fellowship of Friends members, here’s an example of someone who does not need an Asaf (or the quoting every five minutes of ’44 angels’) to keep one’s essential connection to a healthy essence intact; if there’s a connection at all, that is, in regards to your ‘teacher’ ~

    Watch and weep; “For the problem is that you think you have time.” Buddha

    ________________________

    l.t.y.a.


  154. Joseph G, #150:

    Wow. Incredible. You may rescue a few with posts like that.


  155. on July 24, 2007 at 2:27 am Veronicapoe

    dickmoron, keep the true stories coming.


  156. Re: Post #150, from Joseph G.

    Thank you, Joseph, for saying some things that needed to be said, if we all wish to keep this blog from descending into irrelevance.

    It is true, I think, that there are many lurkers who are quietly observing and looking for guidance, a clue, anything to help resolve their emotional, intellectual, instinctive and spiritual dilemmas.

    To all of you bloggers who take an inordinate amount of space with your petty squabbling, please consider that you can, if you wish, make a much more positive contribution to this forum! Teach what you have to teach; give what you have to give from your experience or, be quiet so that others can manifest. Otherwise, you waste our time.

    To those who gift us all with excruciatingly long posts, please consider: If you want to be heard, keep it to 100-150 words or less. Otherwise, your literary efforts simply will be lost in the aether.

    This blog is important to many. So, fellow seekers, let’s try to maintain and develop it as a diverse, personal, and relevant art form!


  157. Re: My post #155

    Well, as to a reasonable word count for digestible posts, mine was 176 words, so I didn’t manage to keep to my own guideline (max 150 words)…

    But, you all get the idea, I hope.


  158. Thank you Joseph G. for returning, beautiful to see you here ~

    You wrote ~

    “Compromised and ridiculous, but possibly a necessary evil in their vision of a loving, art-focused community. Their main question: should I bail now, or hang on a little longer to help my friends, arrange my parachute, understand where it all went bad?”
    ___________________

    The understanding “where is all went bad” can only ‘really’ take place once one has bridged the ‘si-do’ of being in a School of Relative Awakening, i.e., ‘really’ leaving and maybe even giving a few ‘birds’ to RB during a meeting just to make sure that any opposite thinking of returning will be dismissed upon reception… he’s predictably astute to holding vanity-denting accounts… particularly when coming from King-types that are stronger than his (subjectively or not, speaking).

    This “necessary evil” is only “necessary” so long as the student themselves reflect some corresponding aspect of the teacher’s ‘evil’, this being the painbody’s need of archetypal ‘hero’s’ and ‘rogues’ so to tattoo themselves with historical justifications and pain identity heritage; particularly when it’s in the name of ‘trandforming suffering’ in order to identify as the sufferer while transforming leads to more circular ‘transforming’ triads.

    The ‘householder’ part of leaving is certainly a practical one; yet, to be sure not to fool oneself into thinking that the normal pace of someone being told that a tornado is coming is any different than your “suck, suck… and suck” observation.

    To my understanding, one has a six week lead time; so, dropping out spiritually ‘now’, one has ‘physically’ six weeks to get things together, not that you had things together previously either, so, again, leave as you are, not as you wish to be,

    otherwise, like so many in cult circles, you’ll never leave if you leave it up to the lunatic feature belonging to a gold alchemy programed King of Hearts from corn-growers-international posing as a ming furniture connoisseur…

    Not that I would not rather ‘hang out’ with a farmer type, at least they know the difference between the emergency brake lever and the hood release.

    That’s the price, is it not Joseph? To pay for the visions of one’s conscience NOW, not later; I mean within reason, for often times a strong King of Clubs reaction can be mistaken for the highest form of human morality, yet, nine times out of ten, it disregards what the person themselves truly understands (in essence) after the lawsuit ends, the fat lady stops singing and the smoke from the cannons clears.

    Robert Burton is the symbol of spiritual ‘fear’, not consciousness, otherwise he would not have gone with the fear of the truth by basing his school on a lie… period.

    Yet, to me, no one who leaves the Fellowship of Friends once they are conscious of the whole octave of crime and essence damaging, has wasted one second of their precious path upon the sacred way;

    it is you, my readers who scratch your chins for the fear of and from the king of clubs, the body beautiful and un-beautiful, itself, that know now and who have perhaps known for a very long time, it is you who may need to double back a bit and really dig deep within your ‘backward telescope’ depths to see that you’re drowning in three inches of water, three, yelling “44 feet!”.

    Too many symbols, not enough of YOU; I mean the love-you, the looker, not the “I have an angle” that Robert Burton has waged all out war on during the last four to five years;

    rather, the lover, the cliff-jumper, the smiling one who needs no instructions from another on how and when to smile at god, particularly when you watch as god plays opossum for the atheists and ‘man’ for the believers…

    Spend as much time as you ‘really’ need; though beware of using your credit cards on this one my friends.

    ___________________

    Love to you all.


  159. My2bits ~

    Still got that Fellowship of Friends Stalingrad thing going on I see.


  160. on July 24, 2007 at 3:01 am Veronicapoe

    Joseph, a great post. I honor those who are still members who have the courage to post their independent thoughts.

    My experience is that even after leaving, it took years and years and years to understand what actually happened.

    The more I learned, the better I understood it.

    The more I understood, the angrier I got.

    I had previously distrusted and feared anger, but I now know that it can be a source of power. On the heels of new understanding anger can be a constructive force.

    To those in, I say, be open to the possibility that one day you may discover that you are passionately angry.

    A voice in your head will say something like, “that’s the seven of hearts, which resolutely opposes the steward.”

    In that moment, may you discover that having been induced to label your experience in this way caused you to disavow your own ability to be powerful and effective. And may that discovery be the seed of whatever’s next for you.


  161. To Somebody (81)
    I can relate to what you’re saying about being impressed at certain level of refinement in FOF. Me too, I got so impressed. Until I saw hi-end hotel lobbies, attended parties for wealthy, and worked in rich people’s homes. So many very “asleep” people out there spend their whole lives in most refined environments, eat and dress like gods, and apparently it does nothing to their higher centers!
    Now about the “tool” itself. Although I did embrace it (well, everyone told me I had a “golden” alchemy, so it was really easy to accept) now I see this “tool” as just another tool for judgment and condescending attitude towards others with so called “lower” alchemy. In a way, it’s almost RACIST. And you know that people DO use this “tool” to discriminate and judge, you know that, we all know, all did it. When this “tool” is used to confirm something about oneself – it strokes ones vanity. When it is used to blame or judge something or someone – it again strokes ones vanity and promotes a false sense of superiority.

    Now about relationship of refinement and higher states. Firstly, one can experience high states in many other environments, and “golden alchemy” environments are by far not the only ones. This could be candy stores, nature sites, gardens, and also WARS, accident scenes and brutal scenes, disasters, and simply unexpected bright or loud events like fireworks or sirens. Oh, and I didn’t mention drugs. And sometimes – nothing at all, usual environment – and here comes the high state.
    So, expensive clothes and furnishings is just one (questionable) way to get high, and not the cheapest. But it happens to be Teacher’s way of lifestyle, so he invented a “tool” to make it look like the “only” way.
    Did you ever wondered that in the greatest school of the past – Christ’s school – they didn’t even bathe regularly and ate with their hands? And Jesus was reportedly seeing beauty in not so pretty objects, like animal corpses or crippled people? What about sufis? Not much refinement in their looks either… What about Buddha, his modest looks and his acceptance of whatever falls into his cup?
    So – may be – it’s not about the looks? Not about the GOLD? Not about the “alchemy”??? May be it doesn’t matter?

    About your question “what if I succeed and lived in the gold alchemy house, driven the gold alchemy car, showered in the gold alchemy shower, dressed only in the gold alchemy clothes, dined from the gold alchemy plates etc… what if my higher centers awakened and I became conscious????” – just look at people around you. Robert’s entourage does just that. For years and years they dress, and eat, and are surrounded by all that glitter. Do they look like happy realized beings to you, do you want to be like them?
    Also, I work for very wealthy and refined people, I observe them all the time… Wealth has nothing to do with self-realization and inner freedom.
    I would think that IF you succeed in all this GOLDEN things – you’ll be just a well dressed golden looking person, most likely a slave to your possessions and constantly craving more of them – just like your teacher. Look at him! Do you really want that?

    If this is truly the only thing that holds you in the school – I’d wholeheartedly say – please leave, and get a job and verify if wealth actually does it. At least, give it a try, get a life. (You can always come back, remember? As long as you PAY).

    Consciousness is not “things”. States occur IN never disappearing consciousness – so why hunt for passing states? Are you these states anyway? If you ARE the high state, what happens to you when state is gone?


  162. Joseph, thanks so much for your beautiful honest post.
    The way to combat the LIE is to speak the TRUTH.

    Let us all do this, speak from the heart, shed light, tell our stories – there are plenty!

    There is a point when it becomes too bright, too obvious, impossible to buffer anymore, impossible to bear the light.

    He lied to his students and keeps lying – only for his own selfish benefit. Shamelessly, cruelly, criminally.

    I read a new article about cancer. A single cell get corrupted and damaged, and it becomes “selfish” in respect to the whole, rejects it but uses it’s resources like a parasite. It multiplies, producing more corrupt distorted cells – each is distorted in it’s own unique way, and the tumor is formed. It is completely dysfunctional and useless, acts separate from the whole, yet uses the resources of the whole, depends on it, and at the same time poisons the whole, and spreads to healthy areas, “recruiting” healthy cells to serve it…

    Compare it to FOF idea that “we” are separate from “life” but will shamelessly use “life” for our selfish benefits so we can grow and spread… And talking about dysfunctional…


  163. Re: Post #158 from unoanimo.

    I guess so, Uno.

    That being said, many do appreciate your excruciatingly long posts! :-)

    Live and learn.


  164. Why this ‘hi, boys and girls’ attitude to the site which contains blog names to hide behind. When asked for name (required) I did just that. It’s my real name – just asked anyone from 1989 back in the FOF. And Cynthia Hill knows where I live. (“Bid them achieve me” Henry V). You know which beings are protecting me – without a prompt. O.K. Let’s get rid of the ‘pipple-papple and tittle-tattle’ that the other Welshman, Fluellen refers to.

    BATTLE PLAN…………………………….”THE spirituality will raise your Highness so great a sum as never did one King at any time” HV.

    THE FACT IS………………………………Lawsuits against Burton are gone about arse-backwards. The only way to sue the twit and entourage is to set an amount that would be reasonable for an in-court settlement and have a ‘law-court for a stage’ or else demand such an outrageous out-of-court settlement that the FOF would be forced into receivership. Of course, should WE win either way then we would agree to let FOF debts to be paid to whomever they are owed, before distributing among the ‘poor’.

    “There are rules here? Oh, no – there are no rules here!”) Terence Mann – Field of Dreams MY RECOMMENDED FILM

    Meher Baba cannot help but speak again in his quickly returned to Earth role…………………………………..NHP.


  165. on July 24, 2007 at 4:57 am Another Name

    Dear Joseph and many others.

    Yes speak up,
    Angry
    Fear
    Sadness
    Revenge
    Just words
    Just speak them out
    Let them be
    See all the emotions
    See your pain
    Let the pain be what it is
    Embrace the pain, emotion
    Make it tangible
    Listen to its messages
    when it can speak and will shout out
    because it got its voice
    It can go,
    Dispersing
    And in the void
    something new can come
    Because it was completely respected
    Had its seat, its time
    Then ready to part

    Simple, one way to let go of the past is to clean up what was stil the residu, in the way.

    When cleaned up like a messy house, it feels so much better and new things can happen…..

    Cleaning up unfinished business

    If you wish this is a form of alchemy ( gold or not, clean up and your brain works better too ..fun side effect.)
    One way of getting rid of the past? Try it.

    Love to you Joseph and to all of my friends.


  166. This poem is famous and want to offer it again to all the poets here like Uno, Elena, Laura, Arthur, Whalerider and even Bruce :) and to the many of you…

    Wild Geese by Mary Oliver

    You do not have to be good.
    You do not have to walk on your knees
    for a hundred miles through the desert repenting.
    You only have to let the soft animal of your body
    love what it loves.
    Tell me about despair, yours, and I will tell you mine.
    Meanwhile the world goes on.
    Meanwhile the sun and the clear pebbles of the rain
    are moving across the landscapes,
    over the prairies and the deep trees,
    the mountains and the rivers.
    Meanwhile the wild geese, high in the clean blue air,
    are heading home again.
    Whoever you are, no matter how lonely,
    the world offers itself to your imagination,
    calls to you like the wild geese, harsh and exciting —
    over and over announcing your place
    in the family of things.


  167. on July 24, 2007 at 5:04 am Another Name

    And a song for all of you and the SE EN

    Shout, shout let it all out
    These are the things
    I can do without
    Come on, I am talking to you, come on

    In difficult times, you shouldn’t have to sell your soul
    In the fellowship of friends, they really really ought to know
    Those one track minds that took you for a money boy (and toy)
    Kiss them goodbye, so you could jump with joy
    so you could jump with joy

    Shout, shout let it all out
    These are the things
    I can do without
    Come on, I am talking to you, come on

    They gave you efforts, and in return they took your money
    As cold as ice, I survive and we will tell the tale
    I survive and we will tell the tale

    Shout, shout, let it all out, these are the things I can do without
    Come on, I’m talking to you, come on
    Shout, shout, let it all out, these are the things I can do without
    Come on, I’m talking to you, come on

    Shout, shout, let it all out (let it all out)
    These are the things I can do without
    Come on, I’m talking to you, come on

    And when you’ve taken down your guard
    You could change your mind, heal your precious heart and conscience
    Yes really heal your heart and soul,

    Shout, shout, let it all out
    (HEAL your heart these are the things I want to do
    (I’d really love to heal the heart) come on
    I’m talking to you, come on
    Shout, shout, let it all out, these are the things I can do without
    Come on, I’m talking to you so come on

    (Guitar solo)

    Shout, shout, let it all out, these are the things I can do without
    Come on, I’m talking to you, come on
    (They really really ought to know by now) Shout, shout, let it all out
    (Really really ought to by now) These are the things I can do without
    (They really really) Come on, I’m talking to you, come on
    (They really really ought to know) Shout, shout, let it all out
    (I’d really love to see the fof go)
    These are the things I can do without
    (I’d really love to see the fof go)
    Come on, I’m talking to you so come on
    Shout, shout, let it all out, these are the things I can do without
    Come on, I’m talking to you, come on…(fade)

    And for the SE -ENgines

    Fellowship of friends, Fellowship of friends, Fellowship of friends, Fellowship of friends, Fellowship of friends, Fellowship of friends
    I really like to see you goooooooooo
    Shout, shout

    Tears for fears and Another name
    For all of you from a warm heart after many rain storms
    And a hoarse voice

    Enjoy


  168. Thank you 145, you hit the nail on the head.

    It is funny to read all the assumptions from others. First I am not fat but very fit and I use to be Robert’s lover 10 years ago.

    I am agreeing with some comments and maybe this is a forum best for former members.

    To Dick Moron: I think this blog has covered most of the major things that are going on in the FOF. I am freinds with most of Roberts lovers and the people in the administration. I am sure you can add a new story but it will just be along the same lines (not to discredit you). I don’t think you offended me either, I just feel we should write on this blog as if the person or persons we are writing about are in the room. But so many of the writers hide behind their computers and spew out insults and vulgarness.


  169. on 23 Jul 2007 at 5:04 pm
    70 Rhino NealIn my experience,

    “you” or “I” making efforts to be present is a complete waste of time – just reinforces our illlusion of individuality.’

    ‘Many of us know all about this, practiced it for many years, and ultimately concluded it doesn’t work.’

    It is better if you find a way to speak for yourself. It helps reduce lying.


  170. 168 Fat Boy

    “I just feel we should write on this blog as if the person or persons we are writing about are in the room. But so many of the writers hide behind their computers and spew out insults and vulgarness.”

    Who could you be speaking of? Besides myself, who has used my name from the first, and don’t hide where or what I am, and would say the same things to your face (come on up to Nevada City and I’ll say it to your face) it seems to me that most of the people who jump all over the bull shit either use their names or are readily known as their true selves (Dick Moron, Skeptical Optimist, A Former Student), whereas those in the FOF who defend with inanities universally hide behind pseudonyms, never revealing who they are.

    Now what were you saying “whoever you are” hiding behind a false name and computer.


  171. 80 Fat Boy
    To Bruce 36: Your vulgar ending to your entry does not offend me in the least, but it is very difficult to have a meaningful and constructive discussion when you are so coarse.

    its hard to have an intelligent discussion with someone who is rather slow but that has not stopped others fron trying to write to you. You should study the law of three and seven. Form is just that an external pattern. One aspect of a triad. The Fellowship has refined form until it is empty of content. profanity in no way is an obstacal to intelligent discussion and neither is poor grammer or spelling. its fucking idiots that repeat Roberts bullshit and have forgotten or never felt what it means to manifest from ones own being that are the real denying force to an intelligent dialogue.


  172. Recommended reading from the Authorised (King James) Version of the Holy Bible:-

    Isiah chapter 42 vss.1-13.

    Paul’s First Letter to the Corinthians chapter 13.

    GOD IS – not has or gives – but IS…………………..LOVE.

    In other words, “be yourself, no matter what they say” (Sting and the Police)

    And as a practical parting shot, the way to overcome Vanity, to any extent, is just to do what is required – then life becomes one ‘see-do’ exercise.


  173. 168 Fat Boy

    “First I am not fat but very fit and I use to be Robert’s lover 10 years ago.”

    “I am friends with most of Roberts lovers and the people in the administration.”

    No. Really? Well that changes everything. I guess your credibility runs the whole gamut, from A to B.


  174. n connection with 15/464, a former student:

    Rodney Collin also said on page 216 of tToCI:

    At the same time it must be remembered that wherever three forces work together, six orders and six processes are possible. Thus there may be a selfremembering for destruction, a self-remembering for healing, a selfremembering for crime. And beyond all these the only true self-remembering, self-remembering for regeneration. For this, we realise, man must place those hidden and higher powers first, himself and his soul passively at their service, invoking as result that plenitude of life and light to which alone this process yearns.

    Anyone considered the meaning?

    For true self remembering is the consciousness of one’s relation with another in the presence of a higher power. RC


  175. The King of clubs is no more or less an enemy of awakening than is ones foot. The King of Clubs has a consciousness and intelligence of its own. The king of clubs can control other centers. It can also be a denying force to awakening so can anything else. This distortion by Robert of basic ideas makes it seem more and more likely that he is not conscious enough to see either octaves or triads.

    Anything can conduct any of the three forces. this is relativity, the study of relationships. Octaves is prder , the sequence of events. Even the sequence indicates someone who after 40 years of supposed consciousness cannot se an octave.

    Those connected to the Gurdjieff foundation suggests practicing “sensing” on a regualar basis, The Buddha originaly taught two forms of meditation on a sitting getting in touch with ones instinctive sense form and a second being aware of oneself during normal activities.(WHAT THE BUDDHA TAUGHT-Dr. Walpola Rahula

    Part of the art of awakening is to learn to use the King of Clubs – Walt whitman as have many other poets illustartes the connection of higher centers with the instinctive brain.

    Walt Whitman (1819–1892). Leaves of Grass. 1900.

    227. Sparkles from The Whe
    The scene, and all its belongings—how they seize and affect me!
    The sad, sharp-chinn’d old man, with worn clothes, and broad shoulder-band of leather; 10
    Myself, effusing and fluid—a phantom curiously floating—now here absorb’d and arrested;

    The group, (an unminded point, set in a vast surrounding;)
    The attentive, quiet children—the loud, proud, restive base of the streets;
    The low, hoarse purr of the whirling stone—the light-press’d blade,
    Diffusing, dropping, sideways-darting, in tiny showers of gold, 15
    Sparkles from the wheel.
    el

    The instinctive brain is not an enemy. Overindulging it is bad allowing it to make descions that could use a little intellectual or emotional energy is not that useful because it has limitation. It seeks comfort. Say doesn’t that sound like Robert Burton and how he has arranged the Fellowship to cater to his instinctive desires. Say in my case It still wants Haggan Daz Ice cream in spite of the fact that I am diabetic and over weight. How ever I do know the difference between what observes and what is observed. No function is better or worse than the others all have their place.


  176. How the Queen keeps his workers in line:

    By Amber Dance, LA Times
    July 21, 2007

    A queen bee needs to keep her subjects calm and quiet, and she does so by secreting a scent that prevents worker bees from learning, according to new research.

    The study, published Thursday in the journal Science, found that a component in the queen’s pheromone inhibits the sterile worker bees’ ability to learn from negative experiences. The active scent element is similar to the brain compound dopamine, which is involved in learning and memory in *humans* and insects.

    By preventing aversive learning, the queen ensures that her youngest offspring will stay in the hive and not use their stingers, even if something unpleasant occurs.

    “Aversive learning is when the animal makes an association between a particular odor and a nasty experience,” said senior study author Alison Mercer, a neurobiologist at the University of Otago in New Zealand.

    The “nasty experience” in the study was a mild electric shock, accompanied by a particular smell.

    Honeybees separated from the queen extended their stingers when they detected the odor. But young honeybees exposed to the queen’s pheromone did not respond. The young bees that groom the queen are exposed to high levels of her pheromone.

    Older bees somehow become capable of aversive learning — otherwise they would have little chance for survival as they forage for food outside the hive.

    +++++++++++++++++

    From Wikipedia:

    Dopamine has many functions in the brain, including important roles in behavior and cognition, motor activity, motivation and reward, sleep, mood, attention, and learning.

    Dopamine is released by naturally rewarding experiences such as food, sex, use of certain drugs, and neutral stimuli (a stimulus which initially produces no specific response other than provoking attention, i.e. being present) that become associated with them.

    Dopamine’s role in experiencing pleasure has been questioned by several researchers. It has been argued that dopamine is more associated with anticipatory desire and motivation (commonly referred to as “wanting”) as opposed to actual consummatory pleasure (commonly referred to as “liking”).

    Dopamine is not released when unpleasant or aversive stimuli are encountered, and so motivates towards the pleasure of avoiding or removing the unpleasant stimuli.

    Recent research suggests that the firing of dopamine neurons is a motivational chemical as a result of reward-anticipation. This is based on evidence that, when a reward is perceived to be greater than expected, the firing of certain dopamine neurons increases, which correspondingly increases desire or motivation toward the reward.

    **************

    In layman’s terms, if you want to keep members of a group in line, you create an environment of anticipated reward, not actual reward, such as in the next lifetime or reserved exclusively for those in the ‘inner circle’, as well an environment highly sensitive to the aversive stimuli of negative emotions, which is how we learn ‘good-awake’ (=positive emotion) from ‘bad-asleep’ (=negative emotion). This will produce more dopamine in the member’s brains and inhibit learning from aversion by minimizing it. (That’s why it can take some people 20 years in the Fellowship of Friends before they learn the truth and escape the hive mind.)

    It is well known that too much dopamine in the brain is associated with the delusions seen in psychosis and the inability to experience pleasure, leaving the member in a perpetual state of wanting, dependent upon the next dopamine fix, and avoidant of any negativity…especially that painful, negative truth that they have been duped.

    The farther away from the queen, the more reality you see.


  177. 176

    Good one.


  178. on 24 Jul 2007 at 2:27 am
    155 my2bits

    To all of you bloggers who take an inordinate amount of space with your petty squabbling, please consider that you can, if you wish, make a much more positive contribution to this forum! Teach what you have to teach; give what you have to give from your experience or, be quiet so that others can manifest. Otherwise, you waste our time.

    meditate on this
    Fuck you

    Upgrade your own post’s let me worry if I should about mine.
    Maybe there are some who post such as myself that think the rigid oh so proper acts cultivated in the Felowship of Friends are criminal and need a liitle shaking up.
    You do not seem to understand that when you argue for this level of interaction you are saying don’t upset my false fellowship personality with any harsh reality.

    Well the reality is that if you are a member of the Fellowship of friends or former member you have been played by a con artist. If you want to be treated in the manner you have earned its as a fucking idiot.

    Stop whinning
    you can ignore whatever you chose
    you are not the fucking martyre you seem to imagine you are


  179. 155

    This post seems similar to what I gleaned from Elena’s old posts about how she was treated and directed in the FOF. Keep it short, don’t cause problems, if you can’t, shut up.

    178 It evokes a similar feeling in me also.


  180. Bruce, 170;

    Why would I want to meet you? Were you the class bully in high school?

    And if you said those things to me as you say on this blog I would probably punch you in the face, so it is probably not in your interest to invite me to Nevada City.


  181. 180 Fat Boy

    I’m up here any time, and I’m not worried.

    But you’re still skirting the point and question of my post, which you usually do, as did simple truth, HC and the rest of the anonymous trolls. Are you afraid of the blow back of identifying yourself on the blog? Might your hand get slapped by your teachers and peers. Are you breaking a task or suggestion from the teacher? Is that how you choose to live? Aren’t you ashamed of your anonymity? Aren’t you proud of what you do and who you are, enough to shout your name from the rooftops?

    Not one of you proselytizing misfits has ever had the balls to identify themselves.


  182. 180 Fat Boy

    “Were you the class bully in high school?”

    Actually I was the quiet one who defended the smaller people from the bullies, verbally and physically.


  183. on July 24, 2007 at 7:34 am Bass Ackwards

    Many thanks to Joseph G for his fine affirmative post[#150].
    The beginning of it at least. The end of it, I honestly found hard to take, but then I would, still being a member of the organization.

    Recently, I have begun to wonder the use for myself of participating on this blog, since it is primarily a vehicle of elimination and healing for those who have already left or those wishing to find reasons to do so. Personally, I feel like I have plenty of those, or think that I do, but still far more reasons to stay. That’s it. And voicing that sentiment here on the blog will bring in various critics (who need not be named) to pick apart my words.

    Still, and nevertheless, I sit at my computer keyboard today and hope there are Friends out there who are also still listening and questioning together with their Friends, wondering what they can “do”?

    Look honestly at the alternatives, if you begin to feel disillusioned with the Teacher.
    Leave – as most do.
    Stay – and find a way to participate that does not go too strongly against your Conscience (this can go on for years).
    Stay – with the purpose to awaken your Self and your Friends from imagination (this cannot be sustained indefinitely?).
    Stay – with the clear understanding that the information in the Blog is biased negativity from the Lower Self (whew, I almost cringe to write the words, knowing exactly who HC really is, what he thinks and feels and calls Evolution).

    The invisible wall of what we have called the “School” is slowly crumbling. Will the students, current and former who truly value the (higher) life enhancing energy of Self Remembering find a way to stay together, to encourage each other, and to offer an unpolluted understanding on to a future generation? I can see that the GFOF website is the beginning of that something emerging from the ashes. Does it mean that the visible wall of the School, Via del Sol/Renaissance/Apollo/Isis can never be that? Perhaps accepting that it can’t, not now, and not ever, so long as the Grand Polluter is holding the reins, is the beginning of the end.

    ***********************************************

    What we call the beginning is often the end
    And to make and end is to make a beginning.
    The end is where we start from. And every phrase
    And sentence that is right (where every word is at home,
    Taking its place to support the others,
    The word neither diffident nor ostentatious,
    An easy commerce of the old and the new,
    The common word exact without vulgarity,
    The formal word precise but not pedantic,
    The complete consort dancing together)
    Every phrase and every sentence is an end and a beginning,
    Every poem an epitaph. And any action
    Is a step to the block, to the fire, down the sea’s throat
    Or to an illegible stone: and that is where we start.
    We die with the dying:
    See, they depart, and we go with them.
    We are born with the dead:
    See, they return, and bring us with them.
    The moment of the rose and the moment of the yew-tree
    Are of equal duration. A people without history
    Is not redeemed from time, for history is a pattern
    Of timeless moments. So, while the light fails
    On a winter’s afternoon, in a secluded chapel
    History is now and England.
    With the drawing of this Love and the voice of this Calling

    We shall not cease from exploration
    And the end of all our exploring
    Will be to arrive where we started
    And know the place for the first time.
    Through the unknown, unremembered gate
    When the last of earth left to discover
    Is that which was the beginning;
    At the source of the longest river
    The voice of the hidden waterfall
    And the children in the apple-tree
    Not known, because not looked for
    But heard, half-heard, in the stillness
    Between two waves of the sea.
    Quick now, here, now, always—
    A condition of complete simplicity
    (Costing not less than everything)
    And all shall be well and
    All manner of thing shall be well
    When the tongues of flame are in-folded
    Into the crowned knot of fire
    And the fire and the rose are one.

    The Four Quartets, V, Little Gidding, T.S. Eliot

    Love,
    Bass


  184. #168 Fat Boy

    Huh?? Are you reading the tele-prompter wrong?
    Better consult your coach.

    @#$!@#*%^!35???


  185. Bruce,

    Your a little more calmer now, maybe because it is late, but you really just can’t help being an asshole by saying, “proselytizing misfits” in 181. The reason why I missed your question before is probably I get identified with your tone.

    You had a lot of questions, but I guess your right I would not feel comfortable sharing my identity. I have shared some of my posts with friends and some say I am wasting my time and others say good for you. To be honest I have not thought if my hand would get slapped and I am sure the Teacher would not hear about me making posts, and if he did I don’t even know what he would say; maybe he would say your wasting your time. I am not afraid of my Teacher photographing me for he has at least 10 times that I can remember and they were good photographs about my mechanics.

    Sounds like you were afraid of the Teacher when you were in the FOF? If you wish to talk about this then this might be constructive for you – just a suggestion.

    I am not ashamed of my anonymity since most others are anonomous, also that is not the point, it is sharing our experiences on this blog; knowing the name will not make a difference in most cases or in my case. Most of the time I am not proud of myself or what I do; for living on this miserable earth “sucks” to put it in your language. And believe it or not the FOF on the whole makes it a better place for me.

    And yes, I don’t want my peers or the administation giving me shit for posting on this blog. Although, trully I have never heard from anyone in the administration or Robert asking us not to post on this blog. Also, it is there role to protect the FOF and they will use there judgement and role to see what is fit and make suggestions as they feel are needed. Every organization and family has these dynamics.

    Ok, so let’s meet, I am available all week except tomorrow, I would understand if you do not want to publish your address on this blog, so if you want to give me your email we can set a time and place?


  186. Give me your email and I’ll send you mine.


  187. 185

    You have my permission to ask RB if I was afraid of him. You can copy and paste to show him I said it.


  188. You can send me your email through the Sheik.


  189. Bruce, 187: Come on, OK I believe you on the surface that you think you were not afraid of RB, but why do you write as if you think I am afraid because I do not want to reveal my identity? I don’t believe you were the quiet one in high school either! But I don’t know you, and of course I only have an imaginary picture of you.

    As I said in 185 I do not wish to reveal my idenitity to this blog and since you stated you are completely fine with revealing your denitity then I would prefer you post your email address? Would that be OK? If there is another way then let me know?


  190. Dear 183

    “Hold on, hold fast – hold out – PATIENCE IS GENIUS” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. Work with sincerity and directional agression as I do with my ‘trailing’ martial body type (I have the jovial paunch now, either through progress around the enneagram or 18 years+ of anti-psychotics!). Yours in love…………………………………….Nigel.


  191. I just read your 188 comment; I actually just came to this blog and to be honest it seems the Sheik is not really moderating, I would understand because it probably would be a full time job; but I really do not trust this method.

    Why can’t you just post your email; for you said you have no problem providing your idenitity?


  192. on July 24, 2007 at 8:49 am Ni_k Spa_ldi_g

    Fat Boy
    Simple Truth

    (All others please ignor……..)

    Dear Fat Boy & Simple Truth : and of course (Mole)
    Let’s chill out together for a few esoteric seconds….

    You know who I am and my email is listed…..
    and meet me for a beer (coffee) and my usual
    location (apollo d’oro)…..

    Love to those who wish…..


  193. Ni_k Spa_ldi_g (around) 192

    Fat Boy
    Simple Truth

    (All others please ignor……..)

    Dear Fat Boy & Simple Truth : and of course (Mole)
    Let’s chill out together for a few esoteric seconds….

    You know who I am and my email is listed…..
    and meet me for a beer (coffee) and my usual
    location (apollo d’oro)…..

    Love to those who wish…..

    ************************

    Current Fellowship members, show some backbone and post to the blog – if you’re not too frightened of the cult retaliation.


  194. To 171, former student,

    I guess I will call it a night but just wanted to make a suggestion to you; which I make at the expense of you lashing out at me…I hope you don’t.

    It really is the vulgar that makes it a denying force to listen to someone and who wants to understand them. Take your quote, “its fucking idiots that repeat Roberts bullshit and have forgotten or never felt what it means to manifest from ones own being that are the real denying force to an intelligent dialogue.”

    You see that went right past me and probably for many others on this blog, which I believe 90% are cordial. You could have said, “its the ‘FOF members’ that repeat Roberts ‘teaching’ and have forgotten or never felt what it means to manifest from ones own being that are the real denying force to an intelligent dialogue.” Then I would have heard that and maybe thought about it.

    Oh, and please do not accuse me of thinking I am perfect, I sink to this level quite frequently. Effective communication is an art form, I am hardly and expert and probably also doing a terrible job but reading some of these writings it is obvious that some of the non members just want to keep this blog to themselves so they can vent their problems and opinions of FOF (which I am fine with). It is fine to be direct, have opinions, and even criticize but when it becomes vulgar, infamatory and hateful then only a few people will applaud you. And you shut out others. What does the Sheik think of this. Sounds like this is Bruce’s blog!


  195. 194. Fat boy. The teacher George Gurdjjieff “sank” to this level very frequently and delighted in standing on the corns of those prissy “idiots” who became identified so easily, when he referred adroitly to the parentage of someone in the choicest of language. I have worked in many situations where if the number of expletives didnt outweigh the number of actual words in a sentence you would simply be ignored or worse. Perhaps you dont belong in “life” which is where the fourth way takes place, but in a monastery, just watch out if you drop the soap, because not all monasteries are celibate.
    Cy


  196. I just ran into this quote and thought I could share it for what it’s worth:
    St John of the Cross — “Faith causes darkness and a void of understanding in the intellect, hope begets an emptiness of possessions in the memory, and charity produces the nakedness and emptiness of affection and joy in all that is not God.” (Ascent of Mt. Carmel VI, 2)

    Mt. Carmel rings a bell, doesn’t it?


  197. When I first joined the Fellowship of Friends I was told that it was in direct lineage from Peter Ouspensky.

    I find out years later that it was NOT in direct lineage. That its inception was founded on deception. That it continued producing half-baked, half-lies until it has descended into a quasi-religion based not only on half-baked, half-lies but pure and simple delusion.

    Speaking again without permission from Vera-Mente we wants our money back. Not based on time contributed nor money donated but based on half-baked, half-lies, deception and delusion.

    What is the Fellowhip of Friends authorities willing to offer Vera-Mente and me. To go away.


  198. 80 and 81 are newly moderated comments. 81 is a re-write of the infamous ‘Rick Ross’ letter.

    Fat Boy: To the moderator and other writers: Whether your a member, former member or otherwise, if it is the aim of this blog to freely express ourselves and debate issues I assume most of you would agree it better to be civil and courtuoes to one another, so please stand up against vulgar insults or please do not allow them to be posted

    Okay, I am really glad that you found it in you to tell me what to do, not to mention telling me what the aim of the blog is (I didn’t know). I appreciate it. At the same time I agree with 2b’s response to you (96):

    Personally, I’m much more concerned about the posting of lies on the blog than four-letter words.

    Bruce is this blog’s bullshit-spotter and he is very good at it. I can assure you that most readers will be much more offended by people like you, or Simple Truth rather than Bruce’s vulgarity. Bruce is staying, so are you. So fight your own battles and don’t hide behind other people (especially me). Why don’t you just ignore Bruce as all of us have ignored some people on the blog in the past, that is if your ego allows it.


  199. on July 24, 2007 at 2:51 pm Ames Gilbert

    Here are the intellectual underpinnings of the Church of Robert Burton:

    “There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one’s safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. (Lt.) Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn’t, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn’t have to; but if he didn’t want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle. ‘That’s some catch, that Catch-22,’ Yossarian observed. ‘It’s the best there is,’ Doc Daneeka agreed.'”
    Later, military agents explain: Catch-22 states that agents enforcing Catch-22 need not prove that Catch-22 actually contains whatever provision the accused violator is accused of violating. A woman translates. “Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can’t stop them from doing.”
    Joseph Heller, Catch 22

    From the ‘fact’ of multiple lifetimes, to the ‘fact’ that people who leave the Fellowship of conditional “Friends” are ‘food for the moon’, to the ‘fact’ that Burton is at a ‘higher level’ than anyone else on the planet, to the ‘fact’ that Beloved Teacher is the necessary intermediary between a student and higher forces, only able to ‘progress’ through Burton’s intervention, to the ‘fact’ that Burton is a goddess trapped in a man’s body (!), to the ‘fact’ that the Sequence represents the highest product of ‘higher schools’ stretching back to prehistoric times…

    and on and on and on…

    All designed to put one in the classic bind. No way out but to swallow and take a big gulp of “faith”, and watch one’s conscience shrivel away, a sacrifice to Burton, the gift he demands so one can stay safe in his shadow, nestling like chicks under his wings. But unlike real chicks, which must grow and fledge, choosing to stay chicks forever.

    My goodness, why, here’s an invitation from Ni_k Spa_ldi_g, who has posted his latest ‘last’ offering,
    “Let’s chill out together for a few esoteric seconds…”
    with beer, or coffee—and a deep chug of faith. That will dispel any lingering doubts, for sure.
    “Look at the bars across the high window in the cell, the way they interrupt the sunlight streaming through. Have faith, hang on, one day, if we pay enough to bribe the prison warden’s daughter, she’ll smuggle in a file, we will be able to cut those bars, and enjoy all the sunlight we could want…”

    Yet behind, the prison door is open.
    In fact—the entire wall is missing!


  200. Did anybody else think it was kind of weird that ‘Ni_k Spa_ldi_g’ suddenly popped up back at post 194? I thought he quit the blog a while back. Wasn’t he the one who suggested that Howard Carter and Siddiq stop participating?

    Obviously he and many others in the Fellowship continue to monitor this blog. It sounds to me like ‘Ni_k’ thinks that Fat Boy is getting in over his head and would like to dissuade him from actually meeting with Bruce.

    Could it be that he is afraid that if Fat Boy continues to participate in the blog and interact with ex-members that he might actually become convinced that Robert and the Fellowship are not what they say they are?

    While it may be true that Robert and the Fellowship authorities have not issued an official edict prohibiting students from posting or reading the blog, I’m sure they want to discourage it at all costs because it provides a forum for criticism of Robert. And if enough current members read and ponder the criticisms they just might begin to catch on to the truth and decide to leave.

    ‘Ni_k’, why are you so afraid of an open dialogue about Robert and the Fellowship?


  201. Re. “The letter”
    Some “formatory” statements about it.
    Fist …Im sorry I meant first, a little freudian slip there, “assumption is the mother of all fuck ups”.
    Assume nothing verify everything! Thanks Bruce.
    And “all is fair in love and war” the Fellowship of Friends was based at its inception on a lie.
    In this case WE dont need to lie about whats been occurring there, there are many of us like myself who will testify under oath if it comes to it, as to the truth of the statements we have made.
    I have personally carried funds from outlaying centres in the form of teaching payments in cash to I’s I’s.
    Unregistered tax free cash flow.
    I have personally experienced the dismay of newly wed young and not so young wives who asked me if their husbands were having sex with Butman as their husbands were lying to them and even then couldnt bring myself to feed the lie to my female friends just to make them temporarily feel better.
    I had to admit the impediment to the marriage of true and not so true minds, to paraphrase the bard, as it seemed better they found out sooner rather than later and who wants to live a lie?
    I have personally experienced the greedy, grabbing completely selfish ass ault of the “beyond feminine dominance”Queen of the hive and the blind eye and closed hearts of the procurer drones and their paradoxical judgement/envy.
    While they watched the constant stream of situationaly compromised young and not so young men enter the heavily over loaded to one side arena of the Queen, with what seemed like the complacent attitude of, as long as my security isnt compromised, who cares if there are some casualties, if they leave then surely they were weak and unsuited to evolve thats why “C influence released them.
    An attitude created by fear and “small self” oriented lack of real thought and perhaps the thought again instinctive, that the more who left the more chance they had of enduring to the end and being one of the chosen few.
    Whoever put together “the letter” thank you for your effort whether you are an individual or a community your efforts are appreciated.
    Drops of water can wear away stone and a flower can grow up through concrete!
    Can you post information as to where one can join you? as it seems that we lack organisation and a definite direction besides individual guerrilla tactics.
    May your Good be with you.
    Cy.


  202. Ames, #201, wrote, referencing Ni_k’s little “invitation”:

    ““Let’s chill out together for a few esoteric seconds…”
    with beer, or coffee—and a deep chug of faith. ”

    Followed with a chaser of guilt and fear, and the piece de resistance, “Robert has requested…”

    Chilling indeed.


  203. Gold alchemy – from my angle.

    I try to see gold alchemy as something we all have to strive for, not as something that any of us actually possesses (permanently).

    I try to achieve gold alchemy with as limited means as I have: keep my surroundings neat and clean, buy some flowers for in the house now and then, listen to a classical music cd if I can’t afford a concert, etc. In fact, I even think literally displaying (too many) gold items in either clothing (jewels) or housing has nothing to do with gold alchemy.

    I think gold alchemy is not a primary tool in the Work, but I do think it is an important secondary. The feature I most often observe in life (and in myself) is tramp; intentionally striving for gold alchemy seems to me a necessary step in counteracting the relativism so predominant in contemporary civilization.

    Imagine you would go out of the house for a stroll right now; you walk out and you see everywhere around you dirty streets, junkies, unmaintained houses, ugly concrete flats, broken cars, people dressed in (fashionable) rags (and lots of golden jewellery, even on men), people eating stale fastfood and dropping refuse on the street ; when people talk, they shout, curse and argue, etc. What kind of impression would such scenery make on you?

    I see gold alchemy for example in G’s exhortation to ‘work like a man’:

    “The secret is small and very easy—one must learn to work like a man. And that is when a man does a thing and at the same time he thinks about what he is doing and studies how the work should be done, and while doing it forgets all—his grand-mother and grandfather and his dinner.” (Early Talks)

    On the other hand, striving for gold alchemy in externals but not in internals seems to me worthless and less than worthless. I think this is where the teaching of the fellowship of friends has gone wrong: it has fallen in the direction of the pharisee, polishing the outside of the vessel at the expense and neglect of the inside.

    “The lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees cleanse the outside of the cup and of the platter; but your inward part is full of extortion and wickedness.” (Luke XI.39)

    Or, in the words of M. Nicoll:

    “You may treat a person outside you well. Yes, but how do you treat the person internally, in your psychological world – this invisible world known only to yourself? After a time in the Work, if it begins to act on you, you feel far more uncomfortable through wrong feeling than through anything you may have done outwardly. The Work is not mainly about outer life, but about inner life, and here sincerity and valuation are necessary – not pious, not artificial, but genuine. You can feel a fool for having behaved wrongly externally but you must begin to feel worse than a fool if you have silently, in the privacy of your internal psychological life, your real life, treated a person in a mean and miserable way in your thoughts and feelings, though no one knows it. So it has often been said to you that it is how we treat people internally, invisibly, in mind and feeling, that counts. The commandment: ‘Thou shalt not murder’, means, esoterically, in one’s inner life. It has a psychological meaning apart from a literal one. I fancy that some of your now know what I mean and what inner wretchedness can arise when one speaks to oneself negative things about others, and enjoys them, and then plasters up one’s face and appears externally as an angel. The inner and the outer must correspond. This is a long task. They must, like two clocks, keep the same time.” (P.C., vol. 2, p. 694)

    And last but definitely not least, I don’t think higher centres are dependent on outer gold alchemy; this is perhaps a case of confusing Refinement and Regeneration. My own highest states (incl. HEC experience) have been produced – all a-f-t-e-r leaving the fof – by reading G’s books, practicing G’s Movements, and trying to apply the Work ideas as explained by Nicoll in the Commentaries. Of course, other methods may exist, I just expose here what worked for me so far. Fellow bloggers, please share your methods!


  204. Gurdjieff on the subject of Robert Burton and the Fellowship of Friends:

    “But it must be remembered in this connection that a ‘black magician,’ whether good or evil, has at all events been at a school. He has learned something, has heard something, knows something. He is simply a ‘half-educated man’ who has either been turned out of a school or who has himself left a school having decided that he already knows enough, that he does not want to be in subordination any longer, and that he can work independently and even direct the work of others. All ‘work’ of this kind can produce only subjective results, that is to say, it can only increase deception and increase sleep instead of decreasing them. Nevertheless something can be learned from a ‘black magician’ although in the wrong way. He can sometimes by accident even tell the truth.

    “Their work simply consists in aping. But imitation work of this kind gives a great deal of self-satisfaction. One man feels himself to be a ‘teacher,’ others feel that they are ‘pupils,’ and everyone is satisfied. No realization of one’s nothingness can be got here and if people affirm that they have it, it is all illusion and self-deception, if not plain deceit. On the contrary, instead of realizing their own nothingness the members of such circles acquire a realization of their own importance and a growth of false personality.”


  205. Ni_k Spa_ldi_g, I liked you as a Howard Carter. It showed a quite interesting side of you that I haven’t seen before. Ever consider going back to HC? We almost miss him here…

    Yes, I know it was you, so please no buffering, no denying, and really – who cares? Lots of us are playing name games here.
    Big hug to you.


  206. 152 Joseph G. Thank you.

    81 Somebody on alchemy

    I also much appreciated Robert´s work on alchemy in as much as the way I chose to understand it was that one could improve everything around one´s self and that was beautiful.

    I still wish to live by that principle. It was difficult to realize that Robert´s slavery to alchemy was more conditioned by his feminine than by a true understanding of what making effort to make things beautiful can give one.

    And deeply disappointing that we would spend years making gardens and events beautiful but were unable to make our relationships beautiful.

    Then the superficiality of it all was unmistakeable and the realization of the “barbie syndrome” became clear.

    Barbie syndrome is to me that excessive alchemy that marks extreme homosexual men of a certain kind of which Robert is a great exponent.

    Still, I do not hate Robert and am speaking about him with as much consideration as I can but I despise where he has brought the fellowship and the way he has used and abused people.

    The fact that alchemy in the fellowship stayed a fad and not a wholesome practice of development was also clear to me when it became obvious that students like Girard dressed up as if wearing the “uniform” rather than deeply appreciating the beauty of the exercise and that it became a question of how much money people had, that they could show off their belongings. In as much as that happens so intensely in the fellowship, the tool turns against itself and enslaves us to the form without content.

    I don’t agree with your statement Sombedy that to have gold alchemy one has to have a lot of money. While money helps to acquire more beautiful things, true gold alchemy cannot be bought.

    The Antioquenian peasants of Colombia live in dirt houses but hang flowers all around them so very beautifully and wear their cheap chinese dresses with frills so lightly that the gold alchemy flows out freely beyond the kish style.


  207. Fat Boy

    As I mentioned, you can send your email to me privately through the Sheik. I will retain your anonymity.


  208. 75 Innernaut

    “Yes, unfortunately that’s not enough. It actually DOES matter what else is going on inside of us — our own thoughts, inclinations, likes, dislikes, talents, weaknesses, gifts. Self-remembering while rejecting and repressing much of what one truly is cannot possibly lead to anything healthy — quite the contrary”.

    I agree with the gist of your comment Innernaut and would add that self remembering is a great tool if not the greatest and most beautiful tool to work on first line.

    It is the practice of walking the rope between the material and the spiritual and harmonizing both in one´s self as an integrated duality, a whole.

    One of the problems perhaps is that it turns against itself if the rest of the system is not practiced. Second and third line are work on external consideration or love in the ample sense of the word and in as much as Robert worked only on self remembering, the practice turned against all of us and made him a king with servants and tax payers instead of an enlightened being and a balanced, creative community.

    For whatever it is worth, while I rant and oppose the fellowship as it is today with all my guts, I am convinced it had a sincere beginning that turned bitter, mostly because Robert´s own good will was not enough to deal with the immense power he was given so quickly.

    Every single student had a sincere beginning but the machinery carried it away and we all dwelt in it for too long but hopefully not for ever.


  209. #79 “I see” said the blind man:

    “The FOF administrators and councilors owe a huge debt to influence C; they know full well that most of them couldn’t wipe their own asses if influence C had not written it into their plays.”

    This is the confession from a spiritual hit man. Like they say in the mafia…I own you, you belong to me. This is spiritual extortion and racketeering! These fuckers need to be stopped! Goddamn it, the person who wrote that a criminal!

    #80 TO WHOMEVER SENT THE LETTER IN QUESTION:

    BRAVO!!!! God almighty that was BRILLIANT!!! That is the spirit! You have my highest esteem! You brought tears to my eyes!

    Now we have a copy! If any of you have any balls left after 20 years in prison, copy that letter post #80 (spell check it first) and send that letter every week if necessary to every post box in Oregon House! We need to send it to the wine distributors, too! I vow to pass it out to prospective victims if the Fellowship of Friends hosts a recruiting meeting in my home town ever again!

    Whistleblower, show some spine, you may be entitled to a monetary REWARD!!!!!!!!

    Here’s the link to print out the IRS form for report tax fraud:

    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3949a.pdf

    I recommend we circulate a petition around to ex-Fellowship of Friends members with as many signatures as possible and sent it to:

    Attorney General’s Office California Department of Justice Attn: Public Inquiry Unit P.O. Box 944255 Sacramento, CA 94244-2550

    Let’s rock the House!


  210. 209 Elena

    “I am convinced it had a sincere beginning that turned bitter, mostly because Robert´s own good will was not enough to deal with the immense power he was given so quickly.”

    I think that’s a powerful truth.

    All spiritual paths speak of being “tested” at each step of the way. Robert’s first test as a teacher obviously gets an “F” as he was quickly corrupted by the power, and the sycophantic gushings of those who “tended” the queen bee.

    I also believe it started with, more or less, altruistic aims, but turned into it’s opposite. Unfortunately it’s a hard test. There are very few “teachers” who aren’t corrupted by the temptations of power and adulation.

    But this also doesn’t preclude the possibility of taking something from one’s experience, for oneself, that can be of great value. One needs to “know when to hold em, and know when to fold em”. Otherwise what one has gained will also turn into decomposing dreck.


  211. To 200 Shiek: OK, I will not hide behind you, maybe I was not clear on your role regarding this blog. But on some level since you are the moderator and support the vulagarity rather trying to curb it then I don’t see how I can share my experiences in the FOF.

    In my opinion, I don’t think people are really lying on this blog, they might be wrong, but they are telling things as they see it. Yes, there may be a few lies, but it seems to be the habit of Bruce and others when somone wants to talk about their positive experiene in the FOF he jumps all over them with vulgarity. That is not spotting Bull Shit.

    For instance, I read all these negative stories from former students and I believe they have twisted the facts and the deamonor to suit there purpose; Former members would say the same thing about member stories maybe too; but I don’t think they are lying, they are just being subjective. So if we want to refute someone why not be courteous rather acting like teenager with a bad mouth.

    So Sheik, and others keep enlightening yourself with your one sided debates.


  212. Has anybody ever have a second thought while writing something? For instance something is written down and in reflection a second thought occurs as as in, “I wonder where that thought came from”?

    In my post 199 I had no forethoughts. Except to post a reminder to whomever it may concern.

    In post 200 by the Shiek he reminds us that post 80 and 81 are newly moderated. I go back after I finish reading the rests of the posts, and what do I find? Two words used in my post. Half-baked and quasi.

    I will admit that my intelligence is about 1/4 of everybody elses. So, what is going on? Is it possible that I am picking up thoughts off this blog. Half-baked and quasi are not usually my kind of words.


  213. FB wrote: “So Sheik, and others keep enlightening yourself with your one sided debates.”

    Well, if you have some strong arguments supporting the notion that Robert Burton has never had sex with his followers on a regular basis, that he has never lied to them, that he has never misused the money donated to the Fellowship for his own selfish needs and for his own pleasure, and that he is actually a man of integrity, and that followers have never been hurt by this man — by all means, let’s hear those arguments. If you know some others who would like to join you, invite them. Try to balance this “one sided debate.”

    But keep in mind that it’s already been a “one-sided debate” for the past 37 years. Now there’s an open discussion on the the topic. It’s open to anyone, FB, even you.


  214. 212 & 187 Fat Boy

    I jump on a post when it’s clearly bull shit, or just the playing of FOF “tapes”. You’ll notice I didn’t comment on your post 187 because, in light of all your previous posts, this one contained more of “you” and a bit more honesty about your thoughts and feelings, and they’re “yours”- I have no problem with that. I have no problem with any posts from members when it’s honest, deep civil discourse without the flowery airy fairy crap. That’s probably what you wish also. But when the party line is put forth with no discrimination, from a place that is not one’s own, and just mimics what a “good student” should say, I’m going to call it good and hard.


  215. 212 Fat Boy

    “For instance, I read all these negative stories from former students and I believe they have twisted the facts and the deamonor to suit there purpose;”

    Here you are deluding yourself, and I’ll jump on it. I was actually there during the enactment of many of these early “stories”. It also happened to me personally. You can believe it or not, but I’m telling you, they are not only true but accurate representations of what occurred.

    You might want to consider the possibility that you have a need to negate or buffer this in order to validate your own faith. That’s fine, but maybe you’re kidding yourself. To refuse this possibility does a great disservice to yourself, and your friends.

    Back before RB was forced to “come out” of his idea of “celibacy” he was surreptitiously “doing” only one boy at a time. Even though many of us lived together in the boy cottage, many of us were walking around in a daze asking ourselves “why was it happening to just me”. We were so shell shocked that none of us could assume it was happening to others. No one would speak of it. Finally it became pretty obvious what was happening, that RB was living a lie. Yet RB still clung to the big lie until lawsuits etc. forced a change.

    You might be alright with it happening to you. More power to you. But that was your choice. As I mentioned on previous pages, for myself, I divide the “boys” into two groups (not a judgment, just an observation). The idiots and the whores. I was an idiot…enthralled and vain about my access to RB, feeling special etc. The whores (many of whom I loved as friends, though it was hard) more concerned with the gifts, travel, food, cloths etc. who entered the relationships knowing what was coming, but balancing the discomfort against the “toys” one would receive. Everyone, to some extent, does this at different times in their lives. That’s life on earth. At the same time, the spiritual criminality of what was being done exists as it’s own entity. This is what many here have revealed with their stories.

    Trust me, very few who have opened their wounds here are adding embellishments to their pain. Yes, it’s through their eyes, but it’s fairly easy to filter the stories and see what the main point is in these revelations.


  216. 213. Arthur.
    Ok now I will have to come clean! I have one of your old socks which I have used as a physical anchor to remote channel the blog into your subconscious. I promise to stop but cant speak for the owner of the other sock . lty Cy.


  217. 213

    I have the other sock.


  218. Arthur, #213, wrote:

    “I will admit that my intelligence is about 1/4 of everybody elses.”

    Don’t be down on yourself Arthur — you sound plenty smart to me. In fact, you’re one of my favorite people on the blog. If I lived in CA, I’d like to hang out in your driveway.


  219. on July 24, 2007 at 6:39 pm Another Name

    Dear Arthur and others

    When I first joined the Fellowship of Friends I was told that it was in direct lineage from Peter Ouspensky.

    I find out years later that it was NOT in direct lineage. That its inception was founded on deception. That it continued producing half-baked, half-lies until it has descended into a quasi-religion based not only on half-baked, half-lies but pure and simple delusion.

    “This is exactly what makes me so angry, upset, betrayed. There was no lineage and all was based on lies.”

    Speaking again without permission from Vera-Mente we wants our money back. Not based on time contributed nor money donated but based on half-baked, half-lies, deception and delusion.

    What is the Fellowhip of Friends authorities willing to offer Vera-Mente and me. To go away

    “What can we do…? Hope others do not get into this trap”.
    Hope that center direors now in all parts of the world will be more honest?

    “Love to all of you and have acceptance of your own situation forgive yourself”.


  220. Good morning (or afternoon) ‘Bass Ackwards’ ~ (185)

    You wrote ~

    “Look honestly at the alternatives, if you begin to feel disillusioned with the Teacher.
    Leave – as most do.
    Stay – and find a way to participate that does not go too strongly against your Conscience (this can go on for years).
    Stay – with the purpose to awaken your Self and your Friends from imagination (this cannot be sustained indefinitely?).
    Stay – with the clear understanding that the information in the Blog is biased negativity from the Lower Self (whew, I almost cringe to write the words, knowing exactly who HC really is, what he thinks and feels and calls Evolution).”
    ___________________________________________

    I truly cannot conceive how it is that one (or you) can “look honestly”, “feel disillusioned”, then possess in your heart a compromise that would play itself out as an “alternative” way to stay in that environment which created such a hypocrisy agenda within you in the first place (?)

    Please educate me, one or all, as to how it is that you live within such a diametrically opposed environment as to that which you initially sought in your prospective student meetings (and within your ‘private’ selves) or is it that you’re hearkening backwards to a time of ‘kinda so so’ magnetic center days, where the struggle to be you ‘is’ you?

    BTW, who writing on this blog is still working on The Path, so to speak, whatever that ‘path’ means to you?

    “That does not go too strongly against your conscience…”

    Really, Bass, even as an example of ‘real choice’ within the subject field of conscience, is this possible?

    Is there a level of conscience that is debatable, compromise-able and for what price, perhaps imagined ignorance, when your heart, in the now, truly is the only genius you’ll ever get to know (?)

    Is this ‘compromise’ not simply a reflection of what ‘students’ are doing internally (and not doing); how not start with your daily day? And leave the Fellowship of Friends out of it, eventually this will be everyone’s story BTW.

    Is a ‘school’ really supposed to be the ‘center of attention’ when the shit hits the fan and you, or YOU? To me, it’s a buffer to defer the ‘pressure’ and ‘inner turmoil’ to the fault of the ‘school’ or even Robert Burton; these feelings are your buttons having been pushed or revealed as having been stuck to ‘ON’ for a long time…

    Leaving the school will not ease these feelings, nor staying in the school; albeit it does seem it’s your ‘teachers’ (way) to self calm these inner forces and defer them into the future, yet, these ‘negative forces’ are your astral lot, it is the alchemist’s lead… you know the rest.

    You wrote ~

    “Stay with the purpose to awaken your Self and your Friends from imagination (this cannot be sustained indefinitely?).

    Ah, is this not “imagination”?

    Is not ‘real purpose’ what you know/sense you can (within the realm of your conscious probabilities) do now, now, now?

    Yes, ‘sir Lancelot syndrome’ can last till one’s dying last breath; so, yes, it can be “sustained indefinitely”, so long as there are those who would rather teach others how to help them than themselves.

    You also wrote ~

    “Perhaps accepting that it can’t, not now, and not ever, so long as the Grand Polluter is holding the reins, is the beginning of the end.”
    _________________

    To me, first and foremost, this is an observation and question for your inner world, your work, without external affirmations to relate or invest such questions in; eventually all affirmations have to be recalled, brought back in and dissolved, turned towards ‘doing’, ‘being’ consciously effective, not consciously effected (or infected);

    the stars we wish upon are the ones that also fall…

    Our friendships will never ‘die’, yet their form and subjective contexts will; so get used to it or at least try and get a feel for it’s inevitable arrival and transportation of all of us into the unknown;

    yet this does not have to happen by ‘default’, by the happenstance of the physical death, we can start anytime we ‘wish’ and ‘do’, by being consciously sincere, no matter how silly it sounds.

    I have met many who have left The Fellowship of Friends; to me, their work is still ‘their’s’; the question, regardless of whether you’re in an affirmative-third force school, a denying-third force school or alone with certain conscious experiences and verifications, i.e., one’s own path and relationship to C-Influence, is always there, “I am that I am?”

    The work is the work, it changes, it deepens, we grow, we love, make what we sense are efforts and the ‘shocks’ never stop so long as you don’t;

    All conscious work attracts ‘attention’, it’s a law and Robert Burton does not hold the keys to that Law of Attraction; I can go anywhere in the world and find ‘swans’, Oregon House is not the only ‘pond’…

    Can the ‘school’ be internalized; what lifestyle does being a conscious individual imply to YOU?

    Eventually, as all ‘schools’ imply by their name, nature, and level of the teacher’s being, you graduate and move on as a different being;

    you have the degree on your wall (or sleeve?), yet, somewhere having it hanging up there has begun to be more of a conversation piece than application, this is relative awakening, though that’s where all of us need or needed to be, not by one’s choosing, but by the processes placing of one’s self ‘right there’,

    personally, I do not think C-Influence changes our diapers indefinitely nor holds our hand in every ‘play’, jerking us here and there regardless of our level of being; eventually one looses ‘them’ in a certain way, to gain them again anew; to be received, not conceived.

    What Robert Burton preaches concerning the nature of C-Influence’s ‘brand’ of external consideration is not his own; he sells products that he himself does not use, how’s that for ‘conscious’ being?

    ___________________________

    Love to you all.


  221. Hello ‘Fat Boy’ ~ (and Bruce)

    You guys can use an anonymous email gotten from Yahoo or Earthlink to communicate with each other;

    I hope ‘Fat Boy’, that your previous post does not stay your first choice of ‘reconciliation’; to ascribe, prescribe and chastise Bruce and all of us ‘one sided’ ones…

    If you ‘do’, this would be a ‘perfect’ example of Fellowship of Friends ‘doing’, relative awakening communication, i.e., habitually choosing to stay in the struggle rather than meeting face to face, have a chat, (have) eye contact, verify that you are human beings and deeply far more connected than by ‘personal’ feelings and fellowship history…

    Though, like being in Robert Burton’s school of voodoo poo poo, you’ll most likely back out of Bruce’s invitation, yet, to me, it’s an invitation too from your real inner world circumstance trying to trigger some real reconciling due to your most expert ability to wiseacre about facts coming from the dark side of the moon, when you’re actually only showing a tan that would place you closer to the earth’s equator.

    Get a grip… Bruce is inviting you to be YOU, how many ‘friends’ in the Fellowship of Friends have done that in the midst of a storm? Or maybe it’s a bit too much for your crystallized idea of ex-students, to think of it! That it could be possible, that of all stereotypes in your book, that Bruce could actually be able to consciously ‘DO’…. Wow!?

    That’s just too much for your true personality addiction (or is it?)

    ____________________

    l.t.y.a.


  222. 185 Bass Ackwards: “Look honestly at the alternatives, if you begin to feel disillusioned with the Teacher. Leave – as most do. Stay – and find a way to participate that does not go too strongly against your Conscience (this can go on for years). Stay – with the purpose to awaken your Self and your Friends from imagination (this cannot be sustained indefinitely?). Stay – with the clear understanding that the information in the Blog is biased negativity from the Lower Self.”

    Any of the worthwhile activities you mention in your post can be achieved much more effectively outside the FoF. I would suggest that for most students at this time, including you, the real reason for staying is fear. Fear of the unknown, fear of losing friends, fear of being more asleep. These fears are totally groundless. Real friendships are strengthened by leaving. Spirituality blossoms more freely away from the corruption of the FoF. Pretty much everything is better!

    187 Fat Boy: “Most of the time I am not proud of myself or what I do; for living on this miserable earth “sucks” to put it in your language. And believe it or not the FOF on the whole makes it a better place for me.”

    Another reason to stay in the FoF: imaginary perception of being unable to cope with the outside world, again based on fear.

    216 Bruce: Thanks, great post.


  223. Rhino Neal 223.

    Exactly !


  224. To Bruce #216:

    Beautiful post. Thanks.


  225. Bruce 216: “Even though many of us lived together in the boy cottage, many of us were walking around in a daze asking ourselves “why was it happening to just me”. We were so shell shocked that none of us could assume it was happening to others. No one would speak of it. ”

    Like you, after I figured it out I thought I was an idiot. Even today it is surprising to hear that I was not the only 20-something who could not see the truth about how many of us there were. And even someone as perceptive as you (we used to call it “well-developed negative halves”) thought you were the only one. It just keep getting better…

    Respect.


  226. on July 24, 2007 at 8:29 pm Ames Gilbert

    I think Elena is right about the ‘sincere beginning’, but even that was tinged through and through with lies.
    His first conversations with Bonita, by her testimony, were composed of many lectures and some observations Robert Burton had gleaned from his studies. But even here, with her, were always the implicit lies. The first was that he had more being than she just because he ‘knew’ more 4th Way theory, and could convincingly regurgitate it. The second was that his method of teaching, a one–way authoritarian transmission from the ‘more knowledgeable’ to the ‘less knowledgeable’ was valid; in other words, that Bonita had nothing to teach him. His “teaching being” was exactly what he in turn had been taught, both by Horn, and by the educational system we have in our society; it was unmodified by actual experience. This means he was incapable of learning from his elementary school students, and he extrapolated that to all susbsequent teacher/student relationships. Why do I make this claim? Because I am married to a great (retired) teacher, and have met other great teachers. I have experienced a few great teachers, and talked to others who have had the same privilege. In every case, without exception, one of the great “Ah–ha’s” for a real teacher has been that the student has as much to teach the teacher as the teacher has to teach the student, that one of the major rewards of a teacher is the gifts the student brings.

    Being stuck for thirty–eight years in the authoritarian mode of teaching shows Burton’s lack of progress, and thus also his state of consciousness relative to the rest of us. Not understanding what his lie to Bonita meant to his new ‘school’ is another sign of his lack of being and state of consciousness. Maintaining the First Lies for so many years, not going back over his life (in the Ouspenskian sense) to ‘repair the damage’ (tell the unvarnished truth, apologize, explain without self–justification, heal), clinging to his lie and building on it (squashing rumors, attacking whistleblowers as liars in public, pronouncing his ‘celibacy’ anew), all this clearly shows his being, and that is very very low, lower than any ‘student’.

    Worse, and this is important, living these lies dishonored the efforts of his students, made a mockery of their truths. Then on, ever downwards, the web of deceit was woven thread by thread. Countless times, Burton told the lie of celibacy in the morning and that same evening raped one of his students (fucked them against their will), used blackmail and further lies to complete the deed, used the Work language to serve his own base purposes. Used their shame as a weapon to ensure their silence. Bruce has told it, how isolated each of the ‘boys’ in the Blake Cottage were, each thinking they were the only one. This poison contaminated every aspect of the Fellowship. What do the grandiose dreams of good declared by Burton mean in the face of this? In the balance, far less than nothing, a negative amount. The horror outweighs any possibility of good. There was good, of course, but it was not intended by Burton, it was accidental, from his point of view, it was out of his hands, because it resulted from the efforts and labors of ‘his’ students. But, the price had to be paid. Just because the price was unknown to most at first, or known later, does not negate the price and its payment. The good, the common weal, was contaminated. That conforms to law.

    Fat Boy and the others like him and in the same position as him do not understand the implication of the “First Lies”, how they permeated and fractured the foundation of the visible and invisible parts of the organization, and how they pollute the well to this day. They do not understand the difference between Burton ‘coming out’ voluntarily and admitting his own lies, and having the knowledge coming out to confront him unilaterally. That is, they do not understand triads, like their master. Burton has no real knowledge about the law of three or the law of seven, few of his follower do. He not only lacks the intellectual capacity, but even any curiosity. Oh, some followers can spout a pretty angle, maybe an entire ‘block of knowledge’ from one of the workbooks, blithely refer to Rodney Collins’ ideas of ‘crime’ if it suits them, but very few have applied that knowledge to their own lives and made it their own. If they had, they would be blogging from the ‘outside’ right now, they would know how the First Lies were not only screwing up Burton’s possibilities, but were contaminating their own work and possibilities, right up to the present moment.

    The energy of these First Lies and their spawn (the continuing cover–ups and justifications about Burton’s ever enlarging weaknesses—the twisted sexuality, greed, and dominance) continue to reverberate. Vibrations such as these do not diminish (in or out of Time),in fact they increase until the resonance cracks the form. Burton doesn’t understand it himself, hence the futile excuses/buffers such as being a “goddess in a man’s body” and such, and now the final retreat into religion. Again, this retreat shows he is not ‘conscious’ in the 4th way or any other sense, it is mere desperate ‘circling the wagons’.

    Those who go on about how his constant reminders to be present proves his ‘higher being’ delude themselves. He is good at that, sure, he has a team of researchers finding suitable quotes to selectively (very selectively!) back up his fantastic stories, but the fact is, all the efforts of his followers are their’s alone. He may indeed provide reminders (after all, his living and lifestyle utterly depend on repeating the ‘magic formula’), but the saddest point in this sad tale is that the followers then dedicate the fruit of their own efforts to him. That is the final proof that he is no true teacher, that he is unconscious, that he does not understand the laws; because gifts so obtained mustturn to ashes, and not only leave him unsatisfied, but beset by longings that can never be assuaged. He can only grasp for more and more and more in the material world, and anyone with open eyes can see that happening right before them. He can mouth the esoteric words, an excellently trained parrot, encouraged by the ‘inner circle’ of sycophantic followers, but he cannot ‘be the words’. He cannot make himself as a simple child and enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

    Fiat Lux!


  227. on July 24, 2007 at 9:01 pm Was KathleenW

    141 dick moron, speaks of having a few more true stories, and someone suggested that perhaps we have had enough stories, or perhaps it was that there isn’t much more that’s new to tell (paraphrased, can’t find the post).

    I doubt that the average new reader will go through 7,000-8,000 posts looking for the stories that some of us have already read. New stories will be read by new people, and the re-posting of some of the old stories will let them be read by new people.

    Keep the stories coming!


  228. Bass Ackwards #185: “Many thanks to Joseph G for his fine affirmative post. The beginning of it at least. The end of it, I honestly found hard to take, but then I would, still being a member of the organization.”

    It’s true. I started writing that post with an aim to be “affirmative,” or at least moderate, but it sort of took its own course. The soul-suck experience may be much more acute when you live at or around Isis, vs. living in other centers (especially smaller ones). For me the last two years before leaving were extremely oppressive, and the weird thing is I was blaming myself for about 80% of this negative feeling, then blaming myself for not blaming myself for the other 20%. And if my soul was being sucked, who other than RB could have been the biggest soul-sucker, and how many others was he sucking – is he still sucking – all thinking (like me and Bruce?) that they were “the only one”?

    A current-member friend visited us recently and we had a laugh speculating on who would be “The Final 12” – kind of like RB’s Last Supper of his most extreme die-hard devotees. (BTW, no Bass, you did not make the list.)

    We were also talking about money: the “been down so long it looks like up to me” psychosis that causes so many people at Isis to rationalize (read: buffer) what are intrinsically squalid living conditions by judging others around them. This judgement can take many forms but the most common are (a) judgement that someone living in better conditions is a slave to A Influence, or (b) judgement that someone living in slightly worse conditions is a putz and “thank god I don’t have a tramp feature like him.” Meanwhile what we fail to see is how stuck we are/were, and that this state of entrapment is (clinically) what it means to be in a cult.

    The FOF did not used to be this way, or at least this bad. There would be the “exhale” periods when centers were being opened in other parts of the country / world. These changes forced some to go beyond their comfortable squalor, though there are those today who literally would not be able to survive in “life” if they had to leave Isis tomorrow. Fear is a major motivator, but let’s not forget comfort, which when combined with tramp and vanity can make the lowest of low living standards seem like a genuine “gold alchemy” experience. And then there is always “the property,” that magical place full of palm trees and gilded staues and banners and fountains. The place that is one’s true home. Home of the king of hearts. Paradise found; until it becomes paradise lost.

    Since leaving, my problem is I can see the forest now and not just the trees. Oh, actually it wasn’t a real forest; it was a swampy jungle. And under every lily-pad-memory it now turns out there was an awful lot of slime. Thus the soul-suck ending to my earlier post.

    Nothing personal, as you well know Bass. Just trying to arrive at the truth.

    With love to you, and to all my friends both in and out,
    Joseph G (1976 – 2007)


  229. Hello Arthur,
    we probably have similar feelings on some of the issues with the fof…
    If I could find the courage to tell my story here you would probably understand even more about me and our common perceptions.
    Please forgive my lack of openness, I do not trust this blog completely, I do not want to give too many clues to some of the readers here who are not my friends after all…
    I’ll come out little by little (and I am not lunar! :), in the meantime I enjoy you and many others here who seem to have a real sincere heart.


  230. 196 Fat Boy

    “It really is the vulgar that makes it a denying force to listen to someone and who wants to understand them. Take your quote, “its fucking idiots that repeat Roberts bullshit and have forgotten or never felt what it means to manifest from ones own being that are the real denying force to an intelligent dialogue.””

    There is an online group called the Greater Fellowship which is open to all currant and former members many of the same topics spoken of here are also covered there in a very clear open dialogue. It does require identifying yourself to join.
    If you or any currant member are such a moral coward. That you can only lurk and post anonymously on the blog you have not earned any respect.

    Consider this. Who is your friend the con man who tells you what you want and takes your money or someone who tells you the truth you don’t want to hear.

    Go ahead dress up, play make believe higher consciousness, with imaginary friends ,,in an imaginary school and be offended at someone who says wake up.

    Currant students are addicted to bullshit. It may be a very well packaged high alchemy covered with French perfume. It may have a beautiful frame, be presented in a Nordstrums box, even be gilded by the spirit of Stanly Robinson it remains a piece of shit.

    The truth however need no special package. It comes down to you. If you cannot see truth a better package is not the answer.

    Maybe your not ready to hear certain things yet. Should I not say it because it may take you a year or two years to hear it?

    Try to actually think of the effort it requires to be vulgar and rude, Huh? You think I don’t inner consider, become identified with my imagination of what others think, want to present a nicely polished false personality to others?
    In other words do you think I am any different than you?

    No, it is another step in evolution that I am trying to do what is good for you instead of me. Obviously you lack exposure to such behavior. It is my opinion that there are a spectrum of resources available. There are former members, many you may know, in and around the Oregon House area who have offered support to those leaving. Not ready for practical help, sitting on the fence?

    My opinion is that what you need is a good kick in the ass.
    The idea of right action means doing what is necessary to achieve a desired end. You cannot talk a nail into going into a board, you cannot wait and let it grow into the board, you cannot pour water on it or pray to it you have to hit is soundly with a heavy object.

    You wrote
    “You see that went right past me and probably for many others on this blog, which I believe 90% are cordial. You could have said, “its the ‘FOF members’ that repeat Roberts ‘teaching’ and have forgotten or never felt what it means to manifest from ones own being that are the real denying force to an intelligent dialogue.” Then I would have heard that and maybe thought about it.”

    This is stupid, obviously it did penetrate. What you call cordiality I call phony Fellowship of Friends bullshit. If you are a currant member consider when interacting with these noble beings how they will react if you ask honest questions. Just do it.
    Don’t take my opinion. try an experiment. Be honest try to be brave enough to be honest. That all.


  231. I been hangin’ on threads,
    I been playin’ it straight,
    Now, I’ve just got to cut loose
    Before it gets late.
    So I’m going,
    I’m going,
    I’m gone.


  232. Guys, I can’t believe the Letter posted in #81! Was this mailed to ALL Oregon House residents??? OMG.
    Whoever did this – brave soul, and thank you.
    Enough lies already! Enough bullshit, enough fear.
    I am sure people will act on this, especially if one can stay anonymous and just submit a report. Let investigators investigate and find out.


  233. In reply to Ames Gilbert especially in entry 227 I have to paraphrase a Gurdjieff statement that “On entering that room (did he mean the room of higher self) it may be completely empty” Maybe Burton is a ‘nothingness’ pretending to be something (by gilt [gold leaf/facade over plaster] of France, oh guilt indeed – Henry V). Collin talked about the kernel and the shell – a series of shocks, not nice experiences – are needed to make the separation and can we not perceive Burton as a rotten core. Essence needs to be a robust, compassionate, empathetic (your hurt transformed by my heart) and inerasable in the Universal Plan of things.

    Why do I openly tell the truth? Because I see a lawsuit looming and in reading a suspects rights in Britain they are encouraged thus – “It may harm your evidence if you do not mention something you later rely on in court”.

    Yours truly……RAM (Random Access Memory) of God.


  234. on July 24, 2007 at 9:56 pm Was KathleenW

    I have a very small story.

    Did anyone who was around during the Age of the Cameo learn that their cameo appraised at exactly 1/3 the price they paid for it?

    I decided to sell mine after I left. After I had it appraised by a reputable jeweler, I spoke with others who had the same experience, and the numbers were the same — the appraised retail value was 1/3 what was paid (to the FoF) for it.

    I clearly remember being approached about buying it. “Robert would like to know if you feel ready to have a cameo.”

    Gosh, golly, I sure didn’t want to say that I’m not ready for something the teacher thinks I should have.

    I had the first one for about a week, then the same inner circle person approached me and said that Robert felt a different one would be more appropriate for me. The second one was nearly twice the cost of the first one.

    I don’t remember the exact details about this next part, but there was some convoluted transaction with the exchange. I didn’t just exchange the cameos and pay more money. I think I gave the first one back, paid the entire amount for the second cameo, then received the cost of the first cameo directly from the student it was sold to next.

    A receipt was included with the second one that appeared to be from a jeweler in Europe. The receipt said that it was made in the 1700s in England. When I had it appraised they told me it was made in Italy (showed me a mark that indicated this), probably in the 1920’s.


  235. #229 Joseph G.

    Joseph,
    The forest looks a lot different when you have finally emerged from the shadows into a sunlit meadow. Sounds to me you are well into the clearing, friend.

    All the best to you and your family.


  236. I read the letter and was pleased to see that some of my comments where included. In a discussion with an attorney at the Federal attorney’s office for northern California yesterday they suggested going to either the FBI or the Dept of Homeland security.

    FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION
    Sacramento Field Office
    SACRAMENTO HEADQUARTERS

    4500 Orange Grove
    Sacramento, CA 95841

    Phone: (916) 481-9110
    Fax: (916) 977-2300

    Special Agent in Charge Drew S. Parenti
    Assistant Special Agent in Charge Mark F. Johnson
    Assistant Special Agent in Charge David A. Picard

    Chico office that covers Yuba county
    95 Declaration #5
    Chico, CA 95927-1183

    Phone: (530) 893-0655
    Fax: (530) 893-1359

    The attorney also told me that the willingness of former members in filing complaints and filing affidavits will have a significant impact of how seriously the FBI takes a request for investigation.


  237. Hello Janna ~

    OMG?

    Yeah home girl, tha sheet has hit tha street!

    Every resident of Oregon House now has a piece of Robert Burton’s classic wax apple pie circa 1705 (able to last several life times) sitting on their lap, so to speak.

    ;.]


  238. omg?
    arthur,uno, something happening?


  239. #235 Was Kathleen W.

    Ah, the cameo era. RB, the patron saint of shopping. Why not a cameo for every lady? Such a thrill to shop for someone else, with their money. This happened so much. Any student who happened to have a little money they were not using, and let RB know about it, can probably contribute a little story about how they were assisted in gradually blowing it on on pricey fashion accessories, fine leatherbound books encrusted with semi-precious stones, ostrich skin Hermes bags, shoes, belts, whips etc.. And, RB would select everything for them. I will never forget observing him slowly coerce a very adult professionally successful student into buying an expensive briefcase that the student did not like or want. Guess who won?

    Does anyone remember the details of the time (during the cameo/tuxedo set era) that a member of the entourage neglected to declare some expensive jewelry purchased in Europe and RB and party were submitted to all kinds of searches by U.S. Customs. You can imagine the places they would look for hidden jewelry.


  240. 240

    Don’t forget the briefcase “covers” so only you could see the expensive attacher, and of course the fabled “briefcase cover” covers.

    I think I left before the briefcase cover cover covers.


  241. 240

    And the era of the “boy purses”. You and I had one Dick.


  242. That should have been:

    You and I had one, Dick.


  243. whoops


  244. 241, 242

    The briefcase covers provided a nice little cottage industry for Ramona.

    Sorry, Bruce, I didn’t carry a man purse like you. I had a real cool black Mark Cross attaché case! Must have been Colin.


  245. 245

    I sometimes still use the case–without the cover, which I tossed when I left FOF. The leather did get scuffed and is not perfect, but at least I can see it now.


  246. on July 24, 2007 at 10:53 pm Ames Gilbert

    To The Letter in Question (#16-81), thank you for posting the ‘Rick Ross’ letter.

    Would you or anyone else who has an actual copy of this letter please tell the rest of us exactly what it says (printed or written) on the address label? And, if it was mailed at Bulk Rate?

    • If the (printed) address label shows a personal name, that tells us that it may have been taken from a commercial list, that is probably the renter of the list was interested in getting to specific ‘customers’ more precisely targeted than “all mailboxes in a certain zip code”.
    • If it says, “Postal Patron”, “Box holder”, “Addressee”, or such, it probably means it was sent to all mailing addresses in a Postal District (an entire zip code or just a part of it, based on the +4 part of a zip+4 code), that is, a list originally generated by U.S.P.S.
    • If it was a bulk mailing, this tells us that there were enough pieces posted to qualify for a lower rate, at least several hundred. And, it tells us who the bulk mailer is, because they will have a permit number and originating zip code somewhere in the upper right corner (for example: Permit #65, Marysville 95901). If not, there will be a stamp and a frank mark that shows the time, day and originating zip code.

    Of course, there may even be a ‘return address’, and we can make enquiries…

    So, if it came in an envelope, get it out of the trash, please. If it was a self-mailer (folded sheet with address information on the front) look it over. And if it was hand–addressed, tell us that as well. Either way, save it all. There may be other questions…

    Thanks very much!
    Ames Gilbert


  247. 245

    Sweet Ramona deserved to have that business. I encouraged the 15 or 20 RB’s “secretaries” to have the special “cover covers” made. Never got kickback from Ramona though.


  248. on July 24, 2007 at 11:12 pm The Letter in Question

    247/Ames

    Dear Ames

    The letter in question was sent in an envelope with a first class stamp, postmarked Sacramento.

    A label on the envelope was addressed to “Current Box-Holder”; the PO box number was filled in by hand. No return address.

    best
    l


  249. #203 Cyclops

    You have already joined. You have interacted several times with him already.


  250. 250. Yesri baba.
    Hmm?


  251. NikSpaldig aka: “Little Eichmann”

    No I won’t ignore your post. Like I won’t ignore other petty tyrants.

    You are in no position to consul or give advice. You are a brainwashed member of a cult. You are living in a fantasy.


  252. on July 24, 2007 at 11:41 pm Purchasing awakening

    A story. (It could be good for the INS – let them figure it out)
    I learned that Asaf who is Robert’s successor is actually married. No he doesn’t live with his wife and never did. The marriage is on paper only. (which kinda means illegal and against the law in this country.) His listed wife is E—ta and he was married to her for quite some time.
    I guess Asaf needs a green card ASAP – otherwise how is he going to be our next teacher?


  253. #212 Fat Boy

    Don’t you get it?

    You are crying vulgar over a few colorful words!

    The vulgarity is the manipulation of peoples deepest yearnings. Taking their money for false knowledge. Their use as free labor and sexual abuse. That is vulgar asshole.


  254. Re: 247
    Hi Ames,

    In addition, the letter was postmarked, 20 July 2007 PM 1
    Sacramento CA 957
    No return address. Liberty Bell 1st class stamp. Plain white #10 envelope.


  255. Yesri baba (around) 252

    NikSpaldig aka: “Little Eichmann”

    *************

    Though a loyal member of the FoF he certainly is, apparently, nevertheless he is a nice guy and doesn’t deserve to be painted as a Nazi (which is what I’m guessing you mean by “Little Eichmann”).

    I don’t know the extent that current members feel threatened by certain FoF long-timers, but Nick Spalding and Linda Kaplan in my memory were some of the least brainwashed-plastic-personality people I’d met in the FoF. I don’t know what they are up to now, but let’s not demonize just for the sake of upping the ante on the “us and them” mentality. Yes, I know I’m guilt too.


  256. on July 25, 2007 at 12:21 am Ames Gilbert

    So, Uno, (#16-238) it doesn’t look like the ‘Rick Ross’ letter went to ‘every resident of Oregon House’, unfortunately. See my questions to The Letter in Question, above, and his/her swift response (#16-249). My (admittedly undeveloped, or at least unverified) powers of detection tell me that the mailing was only to a few. But, maybe now we have the text (and thanks, Fat Boy, for alerting us to this in the first place!), we could either send it out verbatim, or have you revise it in your editorial persona, not your poetic one (the audience is variable and general, after all). You seem to have a pretty good grasp of current events and ongoing connections with present, as well as past members. I am quite sure you are capable of raising all 800 hairs on both eyebrows of every recipient a couple of inches by adding verifiable, up-to-date, and actionable information. Think of: parrying and exploring with the left, seeking out weaknesses, then the old one–two punch; the shocking blow above the heart followed by the uppercut, delivered across just six inches with the full power of the body.

    You could post a draft copy, invite anyone interested to add personal angles and ‘gotchas’ that will resonate with this aforesaid general audience, and then hold a fundraiser to cover the costs of a blanket mailing both here and on the Greater Fellowship website. And any lawyers reading, both ‘here’ and ‘there’, could chime in regarding both effectiveness and any legal traps… For example, would this become a ‘conspiracy’ if there is no secrecy? We’d certainly invite current members for any contributions!

    Whaddya think? Right now, I can think of some ‘downside’; the hunkering down of the followers, the unleashing of Abraham, and so on. Is this the right action at the right time?
    It is fine to reply ‘poetically’ to this question, in fact I look forward to it. But any letter itself… —you understand!

    Warm regards,
    Ames


  257. on July 25, 2007 at 12:33 am Ames Gilbert

    Oh lord, Purchase Awakening,
    I thought Asaf was engaged to a very nice, very young daughter of followers, right at this moment. If what you say is correct, then there must be some very interesting conversations going on between the two affianced, the parents, the present wife, and Burton. I’m sure the phrase “C–Influence wants…” is being overworked as well. Adding the INS investigators and the INS judge to those conversations would certainly liven them up!

    Excuse me while my mind boggles anew…


  258. Bruce ~

    You wrote ~

    “And the era of the “boy purses”. You and I had one Dick.”

    LOL… Fast catch Bruce… good thing you caught it; I was diving for that base line hit!

    Hee hee…

    :.)


  259. 247

    What’s with the bloodhound thing Ames?


  260. 227 Ames Gilbert

    Ames post is clear and articulate. I doubt I could write as well if I really tried hard but I don’t need to Ames is there to do it.

    It is still just one note of an ongoing process. The Fellowship teaches that freedom is dangerous, that independent thought is something to be feared, that acting like everyone else is good, that not having individuality, consciousness, conscience and will is good. What does a real teacher say?

    Dr. Walpola Rahula writes in his book “What the Buddha Taught” (pp. 2-3), extrapolating from the Kalama Sutra how far the Buddha went: “He told the bhikkhus that a disciple should examine even the Tathagata (Buddha) himself, so that he (the disciple) might be fully convinced of the true value of the teacher whom he followed.”

    Try and imagine meetings in which Robert Burton answered all questions honestly. Compare this to reality ask yourself if you are a Fellowship member if this is acceptable.

    The Kalamas Sutra #9 from “What the Buddha Taught”

    “Therefore, did we say, Kalamas, what was said thus, ‘Come
    Kalamas. Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing;
    nor upon tradition; nor upon rumor; nor upon what is in a scripture;
    nor upon surmise; nor upon an axiom; nor upon specious reasoning;
    nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over; nor
    upon another’s seeming ability; nor upon the consideration, “The
    monk is our teacher.” Kalamas, when you yourselves know: “These
    things are bad; these things are blamable; these things are censured
    by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to harm and
    ill,” abandon them.

    Just a by the way “What the Buddha Taught” by DR. WALPOLA RAHULA

    is probably the single most accessible book on the Buddha’s teaching.
    It available for free online at
    http://www.angelfire.com/realm/bodhisattva/rahula.html#N1


  261. Ames 257 – it sounds to me as though the sender printed out a bunch of letters and envelopes with all the address printed except the box number. Then went to the OH PO, looked at the numbers there, and hand-wrote them in. So, the letter may have indeed gone to all the OH PO box holders.


  262. I collected the “stories” from only recent postings. I just wanted to see more facts together without much “water”

    ‘La Cucina’ the restaurant on the property that was burned down a couple of years ago. First, put aside the fact that it was originally paid for by FOF ( our doations ). The insurance money from the fire.Where is it? It was spent on gods knows what.
    So, you will have been aware of the ‘auctions’ held over the past couple of years specifically to raise funds so that ‘We’ can rebuild our beautiful La Cucina. ….well over $100.000 was raised.Then it kind of ‘went quiet’ So, where is that money ? and where is the new restaurant ? ‘We’ have now paid three times over for a restaurant that does not exist.
    Care to comment ?

    Another true story: once at our house a “boy” got slightly drunk and carried away bragging to other students about his teacher’s many gifts to him. He was showing us his ring, tie, pants, shirt – and exclaiming: This is 1800 bucks, this is 900 bucks, this is 2400 bucks… He was going on and on. It was truly pathetic.
    We heard enough and went away and my boyfriend said to me: This jerk over there is wearing 10 of my teaching payments!

    When do the wives realize that their hubbies didn’t just have a few isolated experiences of sex with RB, but still do it every time they go to a wine cellar dinner? When does the young newlywed realize how at-risk she is of a nasty sexual disease from that gorgeous RB-boy import she snagged? When do we stop being mad and just become sad, because it is all too sad and pathetic and soul-sucking? Maybe that’s the whole question: RB sucked a lot of cocks, but what about the souls, your souls, that he continues to suck and suck…and suck?

    When I first joined the Fellowship of Friends I was told that it was in direct lineage from Peter Ouspensky. I find out years later that it was NOT in direct lineage.

    I have personally carried funds from outlaying centres in the form of teaching payments in cash to I’s I’s. Unregistered tax free cash flow.
    I have personally experienced the dismay of newly wed young and not so young wives who asked me if their husbands were having sex with Butman as their husbands were lying to them and even then couldnt bring myself to feed the lie to my female friends just to make them temporarily feel better.

    From the ‘fact’ of multiple lifetimes, to the ‘fact’ that people who leave the Fellowship of conditional “Friends” are ‘food for the moon’, to the ‘fact’ that Burton is at a ‘higher level’ than anyone else on the planet, to the ‘fact’ that Beloved Teacher is the necessary intermediary between a student and higher forces, only able to ‘progress’ through Burton’s intervention, to the ‘fact’ that Burton is a goddess trapped in a man’s body (!), to the ‘fact’ that the Sequence represents the highest product of ‘higher schools’ stretching back to prehistoric times

    Every single student had a sincere beginning but the machinery carried it away and we all dwelt in it for too long but hopefully not for ever.
    I am convinced it had a sincere beginning that turned bitter, mostly because Robert´s own good will was not enough to deal with the immense power he was given so quickly.

    Back before RB was forced to “come out” of his idea of “celibacy” he was surreptitiously “doing” only one boy at a time. Even though many of us lived together in the boy cottage, many of us were walking around in a daze asking ourselves “why was it happening to just me”. We were so shell shocked that none of us could assume it was happening to others. No one would speak of it. Finally it became pretty obvious what was happening, that RB was living a lie. Yet RB still clung to the big lie until lawsuits etc. forced a change.

    …we want our money back. Not based on time contributed nor money donated but based on half-baked, half-lies, deception and delusion.

    Hope others do not get into this trap. Hope that center directors now in all parts of the world will be more honest?

    I am so mad at myself that I did not see it before, that I stayed so loooong and I am so mad that nobody told me when I joined that there was so much alcohol, sexual and power abuse….They did not know? O.K. we were all blind? Guess so it still makes me mad that it is still going on now as we speak.
    Prospect students are recruited. Young men’s pictures taken and send to Robert with or without measurements. That is what I want to stop, stop, stop and I feel powerless and again angry at myself…
    Yes I am still angry, now I think of it…of many more things, the way women and men were treated in the fellowship. Elena was right that women were treated like second rate citizen. How we were exploited and our money taken from us in the name of building a civilization ( Where? in the bedroom). For the children who were often second or third choice and will never feel like they were worth the love of their parents. The parents were busy, surviving, working to make ends meet, ooo I can go on, but I will stop. Yes the blog is mostly correct.

    …stopping this ongoing pain factory happening for many students, as we speak, now.


  263. 205 is newly moderated.

    Fat Boy: Were you by any chance looking for a confrontation from the start? – judging by the choice of your name, your repeated calls that this discussion is one-sided, negative, vulgar and badly moderated, your ego trip against Bruce,…


  264. Robert Burton is the best example of a tramp feature that the Fellowship has. Shopping and buying fine things is not a higher alchemy. Providing good housing and medical care for fellowship members is a correct sense of values. Paying inflated prices to indulge one sense of importance is also tramp.

    Tramp is a lack of correct values.

    Many years ago in the late 1970’s I remember being envious of Robert basically thinking why does he get to be in his features all the time. I don’t want anyone giving me used Gucci shoes, Hermes ties and Dunhill lighters. I’ll take the cash. He was always micromanaging everything, a first class pain in the ass. Thank goodness he never actually did any work. No not Bobette. No riding tractors, digging ditches, planting vines for Bobby.

    He has not changed in over 30 years,
    .
    Time to put an end to his abuses of his students.
    Whether legal action will come about is secondary the truth is all that’s important for all the time the Fellowship has existed he has managed to control access to information. That in the past. He cannot survive truth. He is like a Vampire in the sunlight. Whoooosh bye bye .

    Elena you are a much better person than Robert and all his inner circle jerk. Your honesty is compelling and transcends
    the medium.


  265. #258 Ames
    You’ve just thrown a “hot potato” to Uno. Will he catch it, let it fall or throw it to someone else (maybe back to you)?


  266. And what about all the hundreds of thousands of dollars raised to build/finish that ridiculous Theatron that Robert coveted when he was enamoured of the Greeks? It seems to have been abandoned. Any one know how much was spent on it thus far?
    I have been waiting to hear about the fund raisers for a pyramid. Who knows, Isis might even be taken over by a theme park operator some day.


  267. Hello Ames ~

    You wrote ~ (258) ~

    “So, Uno, (#16-238) it doesn’t look like the ‘Rick Ross’ letter went to ‘every resident of Oregon House’, unfortunately. See my questions to The Letter in Question, above, and his/her swift response (#16-249). My (admittedly undeveloped, or at least unverified) powers of detection tell me that the mailing was only to a few.”
    __________

    Keep verifying… ‘Sharon’s closer to the real picture.’ As I stated before (from the word of the ‘folks’ themselves), the letter went to 1200+ people; everyone who has a post office box at the Oregon House P.O. Box Office…
    Interesting that you’d say “unfortunately” in the context of “undeveloped & unverified powers of detection”… guess you’re pretty excited; and for good reason, at least it’s not about Robert Burton’s “stolen from his luggage” cameo; if you know what I mean.
    __________

    You wrote ~

    “But, maybe now we have the text (and thanks, Fat Boy, for alerting us to this in the first place!), we could either send it out verbatim, or have you revise it in your editorial persona, not your poetic one (the audience is variable and general, after all). You seem to have a pretty good grasp of current events and ongoing connections with present, as well as past members. I am quite sure you are capable of raising all 800 hairs on both eyebrows of every recipient a couple of inches by adding verifiable, up-to-date, and actionable information.
    ___________

    Sure! Let’s roll with it… Maybe the Sheik can make a separate area (similar to the scrapbook) where the letter can initially post and be revised by people for the next few weeks; then we can do the un-ninja thing with it…

    ___________

    You continue ~

    “Think of: parrying and exploring with the left, seeking out weaknesses, then the old one–two punch; the shocking blow above the heart followed by the uppercut, delivered across just six inches with the full power of the body.”
    ___________

    I vote for the six (or was it 4?) point death strike as seen performed upon ‘Bill’ from the movie “Kill Bill Part 2” ~ more intimate, feminine and handy in the middle of a conversation that’s not going anywhere.

    But, hey, maybe we can double team and both get what we need (?)

    ___________

    You wrote ~

    “You could post a draft copy, invite anyone interested to add personal angles and ‘gotchas’ that will resonate with this aforesaid general audience, and then hold a fundraiser to cover the costs of a blanket mailing both here and on the Greater Fellowship website. And any lawyers reading, both ‘here’ and ‘there’, could chime in regarding both effectiveness and any legal traps… For example, would this become a ‘conspiracy’ if there is no secrecy? We’d certainly invite current members for any contributions!
    __________________

    No conspiracies here, so long as the information is factual and connected to a real set of vertebrae willing to back it up if called on it, in or out of court.

    Actually making it public would be in our spiritual interests; after all, you guys have graduated from the Fellowship of Friends ‘ways’ right?
    __________________

    You concluded ~

    “Whaddya think? Right now, I can think of some ‘downside’; the hunkering down of the followers, the unleashing of Abraham, and so on. Is this the right action at the right time? It is fine to reply ‘poetically’ to this question, in fact I look forward to it. But any letter itself… —you understand!”
    ________________

    LOL…”the unleashing of Abraham”… That’s so Old Testament! But I love it anyhow!

    With the Fellowship of Friends list of ‘doings’ on this blog, I would not worry in the least about the Fellowship’s attorney’s, if they set fires here, this will only look ‘fishy’ to the already reading FBI, INS and Yuba County officials: if you ask me (and I guess you sorta did), they’re just waiting for some sort of ‘shark frenzy’ to occur from the Fellowship of Friends side, so to send in the Killer Whales, who eat sharks BTW (that one’s for you Whalerider)

    Firstly I advice all to copy and paste in their hard drives and on memory sticks (place in secured bank vault boxes) every page of all this blog run so far; just in case… who knows what hacker they’ll hire next (?)

    Then, scan, copy and lock away extra duplicates of every and any ‘proof’ you have; always and never keep originals around till court day, the real court day that is…
    _____________________

    So, the ball in in your court Sheik, let’s get this party started…

    _____________________

    l.t.y.a.


  268. Hey xena ~

    Thanks for the support babe… love you too.


  269. on July 25, 2007 at 1:59 am wake up little suzy wake up

    When people speak from their heart, which seems to be the theme of 1/6, everybody listens.


  270. To 265 Sheik,

    Yea, I made a mistake and was not expecting such a confrontation when I related my experiences, thoughts as honestly as I could; and the more you and others keep attacking the further I go away…..this is what you want I would gather. You can still be direct and drive your point across but can’t we be more polite and civil to our fellow man. Because I am new to this blog I only know Bruce as the attacker but his 217 response changed my opinion; not that I would agree or disagree but the tone was more appropriate.

    You see what I am seeing is what you are accusing FOF of certain things, whether true or not, is happening on this blog too (I don’t mean the sex but the pyschological warfare).

    I could be wrong but somehow I would say a good deal of the writers agree with me in that if we limit the vulgar, insults then the discussion would be more constructive. But I think that some writers would be afraid to support me on these points because they would get a host of critics on their asses and they too want to be accepted. There is so much hypocrisy, much more in this blog than the FOF.

    It seems one has to be certain way to be accepted on this blog, or your going to be run off with insults; seems we have to make our comments in such away as not to piss off some of the vicious attackers. I never once lyed, but would say I could be wrong. Only comments regarding how bad FOF is – are accepted here. Sounds like a certain brain washing is going on here in my opinion right on this blog?


  271. on July 25, 2007 at 2:42 am Purchasing awakening

    Another story.
    I learned that earlier in his reign Robert asked married women not to have kids and if they already did to give them away. Many apparently listened and obeyed. Apparently Linda was persuading pregnant women to have an abortion “to follow the will of the Teacher”. Gently ask older female students in FOF what happened to their kids.
    Also teacher gave a task to students to euthanise or give away their non-pedigree canine companions. Many obeyed and killed or abandoned their dogs. Please read Stella’s story.
    Then not so long ago he ordered to kill all black cats around the property because of his superstitions (apparently he thought black cats bring bad luck and are connected to the devil).

    These are acts of a conscious being #7 (or higher), the teacher.


  272. on July 25, 2007 at 2:42 am Laughing Love

    Hello Fat Boy.

    I guess it would probably be rather disorienting to suddenly burst upon this scene.

    There is a history and a long term dialogue that has been in play for months now.

    Perhaps if you were to peruse all the posts from the previous discussion boards you would see how it changes and moves and progresses.

    There have been many phases and topics of discussion.

    There have been aggressive current members who have participated vigorously and, in some cases, righteously.
    There have been questions about why current members would bother to engage with “moon food” seriously.

    There have been requests from other current members (i.e. “Nick Spaulding” (sorry, can’t remember the “missing” letters”)), that participating current members cease from participating.

    I can’t possibly describe the ongoing dynamic fully in one post. It is, at this point, very complex.

    Your assessment seems to be based in one phase.

    Also, your sense that this discussion board is discriminatory is a bit off. Although your opinions and thoughts may be challenged, they are welcomed. One cannot, however, expect any to agree with, succumb to and/or love your beliefs.

    This discussion questions, argues, proposes and examines issues. It does not accept one way of thinking or responding.

    Instead, all are free to communicate in whatever manner they choose.

    Naturally, that does not mean that agreement is in the wind.
    It also does not mean that anyone needs to be polite.

    Further, the moderator, the brilliant Sheik (I’m forever grateful to you my sweet!), has chosen to moderate maturely. I also recommend that you look into the history of this moderator’s participation and the choices made in terms of how to run the board most effectively.

    In a nutshell, you are entering a discussion that has been ongoing for months and has many dynamics. It is necessary to delve into its history in order to fully understand the mode in which you have chosen to participate.

    Best of everything to you and yours,

    LL


  273. Fat Boy (around) 272

    It seems one has to be certain way to be accepted on this blog…

    ***************

    No one even knows who you are and you are still inner considering and feeling the weight of social pressure, you don’t see something odd about that?


  274. 273

    There was also a time where hysterectomies were being suggested to women for birth control because once it’s done, that’s it, no more problem.

    To my understanding some even took the advice.


  275. Dear Fat Boy, you said:
    “Only comments regarding how bad FOF is – are accepted here. Sounds like a certain brain washing is going on here in my opinion right on this blog?”
    I think that comments how good FOF is are totally accepted but kind of not needed here. This is what you hear anyway at every meeting, every teaching event, every dinner with devoted followers. This is the only allowed and encouraged comments within FOF, aren’t they? “It’s so wonderful! Robert is just amazing! Aren’t we lucky? We are so much luckier than “life”. How beautiful it is here! We are standing on the shoulders of giants – ancient prehistoric schools! Let’s drink to our outrageous good fortune and our precious sequence that really works!”
    Why would you need more of it here? Haven’t you had enough of these statements already? We all heard it for years, believed in it, repeated it. While any criticism or independent thinking were immediately squashed.

    If anyone wants to read how good and special and great FOF is – please go to the official FOF website, or attend a prospective/recruiting meeting. There is enough of that positive advertisement going on.
    This blog often represents and exposes the other side of the coin, hidden side, not so shiny… There are 2 sides to any coin you know.

    But please don’t be discouraged to post. Anything anyone has to say is valuable and has truth in it.


  276. Re: Post #180, from A Former Student.

    “meditate on this
    Fuck you”

    Well, A Former Student, let’s talk.

    It has been a good while since I’ve been told in anger to go fuck myself. But I’m beginning to see your point. As unoanimo and others have correctly observed, I am still entrenched in the FoF “culture” — the product of 20+ years of immersion programming.

    I am on my way out, but I am trying to find my own way out, and for me it is a slow process. I’m oriented toward healing, not retribution.

    By the way, I don’t see myself as a “martyr” of any kind… I’m not trying to save anything or anyone but my Self. In my previous two posts, I guess I was trying to “save” the blog (or what I would wish it to be), but obviously the blog doesn’t want or need to be saved. It just wants and needs to be what it is: many things to many people, wild and free.

    When reading and re-reading your post to me, I flashed to a distant movie memory of The Storming of the Bastille: Mobs of angry revolutionaries are filling the streets, carrying their torches, demanding an end to the despots and their aristocratic lackeys. I imagined myself as some wannabe aristocrat in a powdered wig, with holes in his/her pantaloons, wandering confusedly amidst the swelling crowd, pleading with those in the crowd to “Please, be reasonable!” and answered with a barrage of rotten eggs and curses.

    I now understand that, for many on this blog, the time to “be reasonable” has passed. There has been too much suffering and abuse, and there is an agenda. However, I am not a barn burner, and do not intend to participate in furthering the destruction of the FoF. I’ll leave that to The Fates, and to you and your fellow revolutionaries, A Former Student, if that’s what guides you.

    I’m for saddling up and riding into the sunset, whistling a tune and looking for the next esoteric adventure.

    However, I honestly do not know how I will be able to deal with the accumulate anger and resentment from my years in the Fellowship, under RB’s questionable tutelage. I’m curious if expression of anger in this forum would help me heal… Should I join the rebellion? Am I like you, A Former Student? No. I’m not.

    I wish us both the very best!


  277. Hello ‘Fat Boy’ ~

    You wrote ~

    “I could be wrong but somehow I would say a good deal of the writers agree with me in that if we limit the vulgar, insults then the discussion would be more constructive. But I think that some writers would be afraid to support me on these points because they would get a host of critics on their asses and they too want to be accepted.”
    ________________________

    I’m not afraid; sure there’s some bar room talk in here, yet, when considering where your monies are going to support the porno, the erection drugs, the drug drugs, the illegal weddings (and the gifts, which are sorta illegal too, in my book), the damaging of unsuspecting essences (most are when they’re hypnotized by a perpetually spiral kinda guy), I am far from willing to fairly compare the two (or what sort of inner vocabulary it takes to buffer your conscience) and take ‘the shop talk’ with a grain of salt, a very tiny grain, about a fourth of a grain… and the list goes on… not to mention your dictator’s humanity that’s up there with run away lawn mowers and “Help, I can’t get up’ sprained ankles.

    The shop talk is sometimes (in my book) shocks for certain ‘spirits’ to get a grip on the handle bars and quit putting they’re wagging tongues in their own spokes; often, it’s no different than that ‘gotta have those cuff links’ story concerning your Man #7.8.3331023487… or the ‘Hell Letter’ from your Man etc., etc., so, where’s your ‘scale & relativity’… if you don’t have it, please do not use it?

    Yes, there’s even some Jack Nicholson kinda stuff in here too, i.e., The Shinning; yet, if you’re afraid of souls in progress, go back to your School of Relative Awakening, drink some margarita’s and cum and live the good life.

    If you have not seen ‘comparable’ negativity expressed by by your teacher and his ‘groupies’, i.e., the inner, inner, inner, inner circle… then please give me your physical address, I’d love to see what you’ve done with the underside of the largest flat rock in this geological area; I am sure there’s some back taxes owed on that thing too, so keep it hush hush….
    ________________

    You also wrote ~

    “There is so much hypocrisy, much more in this blog than the FOF.”
    ________________

    Considering that 8/10th’s of the hypocrisy on this blog is discussions and quotes concerning the hypocrisy concerning the Fellowship of Friends; I want to thank you for your confirmation, sorta…

    your being kinda silly for July, it’s actually kinda refreshing, you should be ready for a Sheik of Inner Confussion tattoo by the end of August…

    ________________

    Have fun in here Fat Boy and shake what you got, not what you want; don’t be so serious, good grief, even Ouspensky laughed and raised hell once in a while and don’t even get me started with George ‘the bruce lee’ Gurdjieff…
    ________________

    Love to you Fat Boy; hold on homey, this is
    the ride of your life, right now, no buffers needed…


  278. L.L. 274: Thank you for making it clearer, and I believe that if I went though the posts I would see it a little different as you say. But other members have said they were attacked abruplty and verabally in the same way. You say my opinions are welcome but it does not feel that way to me. It is not the questioning nor the challenging, but vigorous, rude, vulgar, sacrastic shit. Your post was sincere but I do not feel you have really put yourself in my shoes or the shoes of member who would like to make comments. In any case, so be it.

    I now have a new understanding thanks to Janna.

    277 Janna: we were friends. I respect your feelings in your first paragraph, althought I do not see it that way personally. But I do want to commend you, sincerely, on your elequence in a non judgemental way of me and explaining why this blog is not a place for positive postings or defending the FOF.

    I guess my time is up, may you find “happiness”.


  279. P.S. Fat Boy ~

    You wrote ~

    “Only comments regarding how bad FOF is – are accepted here. Sounds like a certain brain washing is going on here in my opinion right on this blog?”

    ________________________

    Thank you Robert Burton for teaching your students the difference between gods and man…

    ________________________

    So, let the ‘positive list’ begin ~


  280. Little story/testimony:

    When I got pregnant I was leaving at Renaissance and my husband was on salary. We did not have the money to go to a doctor and were worried about future hospital bills.

    My husband called Robert, but not until years later did he tell me what the teacher had said in response to a request for financial help for the birth, namely, that we had missed an opportunity to oppose our catholic upbring by not having an abortion.

    A student on salary with family later suggested we go to County Health Services. Fortunately I had excellent care.

    BTW our child is an absolute delight, a gift beyond measure.

    Thanks anyway for the advice, Bob.


  281. My2Bits ~

    I am very glad you decided to stay; I only hope that what you effort out of your inner world to share here is not guided by ‘two sides of the coin’ thinking (no offense Janna) though, actually there’s three sides to a coin BTW.

    You wrote ~

    “I’m curious if expression of anger in this forum would help me heal…”

    __________________

    We’ll My2Bits; if you have to be curious first, think about it first, kinda like testing a bear trap with someone else’s big toe, then no, it would not help because negative emotions happen, in my opinion, they are not consciously planned and if they are, then, they are not ‘really’ negative, only, intentional insincerity, something ‘Fat Boy’ seems to have missed in his prospective student meeting.

    For your inner god’s sake BE YOURSELF and sorta not yourself, if you know what I mean…

    There may be some motorcycle grease on the china, but there’s real love in here and all you’ve gotta do is read a little Rumi to get a sense of its Sufi-ish tendencies…

    Remember the story about the new guy in town that arrives to a Sufi campfire celebration with his donkey?

    Love, my friends, that’s what I get here; every lotus has it’s swamp…

    And the soul rises from the soon to be rotting corpse.
    _______________________

    l.t.y.a.


  282. on July 25, 2007 at 4:12 am A former female student from long ago

    Re: Purchasing Awakening 273 & Bruce 276 “Women & Bearing Children”

    I never understood the few, lovely, women I met who had left their children in the care of others at the behest of the FOF leaders. Please note that the directives may have come from Robert after Center Directors told him of situations that might threaten the student’s devotion and or payments. (Darn those silly outside influences.)

    I had an abortion before joining the FOF and emotionally and physically, it is not a simple procedure. I have since had difficulty in giving birth to my children because of scar tissue from the first abortion and had complications that have resulted in several surgeries. The results of my own decision have caused life threaten hospital procedures and months away from my newborn children. Enough said, it was my decision but what about the women who followed orders from FOF headquarters.

    I knew of a visit from Fran, an older women, who was sent to escort a happily married women to a hospital for a late term abortion of healthy twins. Why was this married student in a happy relationship guided to go to the hospital to abort two healthy fetuses? Robert loved the beautiful, handsome husband and it was during the mid/late 70s when the School could not afford to have students be distracted by the emotional or expensive aspects of children.

    This potential mother and father were in in pain but followed Robert’s directives – it was not a pretty situation. Years later Robert got his guy back and the wife was left to earn money outside of Renaissance while her husband was on salary.


  283. Fat Boy wrote ~

    “I guess my time is up, may you find “happiness”.”
    ________________________________________

    That’s just like a cult member dammit! Give up just when the self-initiated deprogramming begins…

    It’s that ‘drop out in the middle of the twelfth grade thing again’, OH HOW IT HAUNTS ME SO…

    ____________________________

    Wear something floral ‘Fat Boy’… Through the smoke grenades and helicopter dust I’ll see you better and will rescue you, if you want…


  284. Thank you vera.mente; somehow, and this is not being said with ‘tongue in cheek’, I do not think telling this story in any way compromises your real identity; it’s the story of many, many, so many that Robert Burton would be hard pressed not to flat out lie (imagine that) if he were to try and guess your name.
    ________________

    My love to your conscious family.


  285. Fat Boy – if we WERE friends, we ARE still friends.
    I didn’t denounce any friend since I was asked to leave FOF. Some of my friends decided to cut off any communications after being so connected for many years. This is truly sad. To me friendship and membership are not the same. In a way these 2 things are on such different scales… I value genuine connection to people a lot. If we were friends – it’s not because we were members, it’s because we liked each other and enjoyed each others company.

    The “exercise” of terminating friendships with those who left the school – is one of the most cruel and heartless expressions of Robert. It’s based on selfishness, fear and jealousy. I have a feeling this man has never experienced true friendship or love, regardless what he says.
    Otherwise, how he could order lovers to separate, children to be given away, friendships to be cut off, pets to be killed? Which king of hearts? This man is as COLD and heartless as a rock on the moon. Except that he actually inflicts pain and suffering to others while the rock is just peacefully laying there…

    Please e-mail me to malaec@optonline.net and I’ll invite you to fun and friendly Greater Fellowship online community – where friendship seem to outlast membership.


  286. 284: Your such a funny guy!!! In anycase I will read this blog from time to time but don’t think I will share my thoughts or experiences about FOF since they are not welcome since they may tend to be more positive.

    286: Janna. I like you and of course we are still friends. No thanks to your invitation though; maybe someday we will meet up again.


  287. #257 Graduates

    Twice he has posted veiled threats to current members posting on the blog. How fascist does it need to become before he is called on it.


  288. Yesri baba (around) 288

    #257 Graduates

    Twice he has posted veiled threats to current members posting on the blog. How fascist does it need to become before he is called on it.

    ***************

    Your observations will carry more weight if they are realistic, stick with the actual scale rather than trying to illustrate your perceptions through exaggerations. Yes, he is using a practiced cheerful language to put his fellow students under feminine dominance. Nick always had a lot of feminine dominance brand of self-righteousness, the kind that hopefully ingratiates oneself with those on up the chain of command. Even so, he is hardly a war criminal. He’s just a cult member.


  289. I am wondering if people inside and out believe that the blog and the letter will make a difference in terms of the ability of the Fellowship of Friends to continue or will it all just be pushed under the carpet as things have been in the past? Before anyone writes questioning why I’m asking – I am not in but am close to someone who is and would hope this may push them to leave – I’m afraid it will have the opposite effect.


  290. 289

    “he is hardly a war criminal. He’s just a cult member.”

    I would agree with that.


  291. on July 25, 2007 at 6:33 am Ames Gilbert

    Well, Uno, thanks for your observations, I was trying ‘to be a bloodhound, to verify. I found your words…

    Hello Janna ~
    OMG?
    Yeah home girl, tha sheet has hit tha street!
    Every resident of Oregon House now has a piece of Robert Burton’s classic wax apple pie circa 1705 (able to last several life times) sitting on their lap, so to speak.

    …sufficiently unclear (I thought you were expressing hope rather than fact) that I thought I’d try a bit of ‘remote sleuthing’ to try to tighten up my understanding. It’s quite apparent that I’m several lengths behind…
    And you knew all along!

    You’re right, I was getting a little excited (“queeny”, they’d say), and throwing out propositions on insufficient or outdated evidence. I’m going shut up and meditate on this whole thing for a couple of days, and see whether I want to be first force or third force in ‘pulling down the pillars of the temple’. It is one thing to be third force, that is, write on the blog, and have folks in the FoF come here to read my words, and incorporate them into their decision making or not, and another thing to be first force, and tell what I know to third parties (noting that strictly, any first–hand information is necessarily 13 years or more out of date and therefore subject to ‘statute of limitations’ considerations and such); yet I suppose I know enough to outline agendas and give broad hints for an investigation that wishes up–to–date information. First force or third force, that is the question. Another reason for me shutting up on this subject for a couple of days is that you or others will have more to say on the subject, I’m sure.

    And I have a fresh appreciation for the advantages of anonymity you enjoy.

    Fat Boy,
    I appreciate your honesty about the level of verification you made about the finances of the FoF, that is, in reality very little. Of course, the standards I proposed were very tough; the FoF would only let you in with a forensic accountant under duress, that is, with a court order or something of similar power. And you are right, I don’t have any current information. I was trying to find out how you scrupulously you defined ‘verification’. That and your carelessness over the origin of the ‘Rick Ross’ letter told me much about your standards. I’m not passing judgment, just establishing a baseline so I can make the necessary allowances.

    Speaking to you in general terms (and others have made a similar point), I have to say that we have indeed been in your shoes; we have ‘been there and done that’. We have been the fresh young enthusiastic student, we have been the hard workers (we built the vineyard and winery that our leader ordered), we have been the dedicated followers, we have been the experimental subjects, we have been the secret–keepers, we have been the shamed, we have been the power possessors, we have been the servers, we have been the angle givers, we have been the proud, we have been the haughty, we have been the deceived, and we have been the deceivers, we have had our third states, we have run sex energy, we have been asleep. We know about exhilaration, about doubt, about verification, about blind belief, about being humbled, about betraying, about being betrayed. We know something about conditional friendship, unconditional friendship, and the difference.

    So, it’s true, we do give short thrift to FoF—speak; we’ve heard it all before, every single angle (we invented some of them ourselves!) and no longer have the patience.
    But, if you tell your personal story, and we feel your heart, and you express your feelings honestly, then that is new, that adds to our being by broadening our horizons, establishing a fresh point of view, and we do appreciate that.

    If you are being naïve in my estimation, it seems fine to tell you that, if you are making an error of reasoning, surely you yourself would seek and appreciate a ‘photograph’ (and ours are free!), but I don’t think you’ll ever be blasted for honesty, clarity, or for offering a gift of yourself. I think that you’ll find us collectively to be rigorous (there is no time to be less than rigorous) but not deliberately unkind. And of course, gray areas will continue to be gray, so come prepared to make allowances.

    I hope you stay and talk with us, and encourage your friends to do so as well. Frankly, I don’t think that the N_ck Spauld_ngs and their ilk are your friends, esoterically speaking; they are the wagon circlers, and the circle is spiraling inwards. Join or leave, what the heck, that’s your decision to make on the best evidence you can accumulate. But, I encourage you to join the larger group, the Company of Adventurers (which may include some who are ‘in’, who cares, I don’t), who are willing to try to look the truth in the eye, and learn not to flinch.

    With love to you all, ‘in’ and ‘out’,
    Ames


  292. Hello Ames ~

    Thank you for your Post ~

    If you look a little ways above that post I made to Janna, you’ll see what else was beaded on the string of that reply… She started (if I recall correctly) with OMG! and then went on to say something questioning the letters being sent out or not… scroll upwards, you’ll find it.

    You wrote ~

    “First force or third force, that is the question.”

    _________________________

    Hummmm…. I thought it was ~

    “To be or not to be, that is the question.”

    Hell Ames, you’re a war veteran, be both; why, it’s your existence, be all three…
    ___________________

    ;.]


  293. My litle offerings for today’s blessings from the Invisible Forces that have sacrificed their lives for Human Good is from ‘Frondes Agrestes’ (aggressive ferns? – come on ye latin scholars – make it specific for me, the Generalist Teacher, who allows students to work towards their own specific undrstandings and goals) by Rushkin, a turn of the 19th/20th century Evangelist, connected with William Morris, the founder of the Arts and Crafts Movement (of which I am a Distinction Licentiate) in Britain during that time.

    Section One – Principles of Art

    2. The temper by which right taste is formed is characteristically patient. It dwells upon what is submitted to it. It does not trample upon it, – lest it should be pearls, even though it looks like husks. It is good ground, penetrable, RETENTIVE: it does not send up crowns of unkind thoughts , to choke the weed seed; it is hungry and thirsty too, and drinks all the dew that falls on it. It is an honest and good heart, that shows no too ready springing before the sun be up, BUT FAILS NOT AFTERWARDS; it is distrustful of itself, so as to be ready to believe and try all things; and yet so trustful of itself, that it will neither quit what has been tried, nor take anything without trying. and the pleasure which it finds in things that are true and good, is so great, that it CANNOT BE LED ASIDE BY ANY TRICKS OF FASHION, DISEASE OR VANITY; it cannot be cramped by its conclusions by partialities and hypocrisies; its visions and delights are too penetrating, — TOO LIVING, — for any whitewashed object or any fountain long to endure of supply. IT CLASPS ALL THAT IT LOVES SO HARD THAT IT CRUSHES IT IF IT BE HOLLOW.

    With blessings to you all………..THE HAPPY GOD!


  294. #272 Fat Boy wrote:

    “Only comments regarding how bad FOF is – are accepted here. Sounds like a certain brain washing is going on here in my opinion right on this blog?”

    Guess what Fat Boy… this blog has never been a forum for praise of Robert Burton and the FOF. If you spend a little time and effort to read the early pages of the blog, you will see that 99.5% of the participants here have long ago recognized and accepted that there was/is MUCH imagination and little substance to Robert Burton and his “teaching”. This blog has been a discussion for those who have already escaped from this “brain washing” you mention. Yes, most everyone here considers FOF bad. Do you really expect anyone here to sympathize with your whiney complaints…

    “It seems one has to be certain way to be accepted on this blog, or your going to be run off with insults; seems we have to make our comments in such away as not to piss off some of the vicious attackers.’

    Bruce the “attacker.” Scary. If you are a FOF member who is considering leaving FOF (why else would you be on the blog?), try reading more and moralizing less. Check back with your conscience–it’s still there, if you ever had one. Stick around the blog—humbly—maybe you will find your way out.


  295. on July 25, 2007 at 7:29 am Crouching Tiger

    Just a few odds and ends…

    Someone asked about Asaf’s current marital status a while back. I understand he’s planning to marry Ansl.P, the whole ‘waiting for the under-aged to mature’ myth has been abandoned.

    I participated in the Research Octave, doing much of the work on the Sufis. There are two groups of researchers, one of about 100 for run-of-the-mill events in the charge of Mihai, another smaller group of about 30 for ‘special’ events run by Yoad. We all sent in quotations – usually about half-a-page’s worth which then get refined – oftentimes out of existence! – by an inner panel at Isis. People were expected to use wordsearch to pick up appropriate quotations… so if the subject was ‘The Passions’ for instance, you’d just type in ‘Passions’ and see what you got. I am not computer-friendly, so I did it by reading through a lot of books and putting endless bookmarks and dog-ears in them! This was much more fun for me, and helped my understandings a lot.

    Long quotations are discouraged, they put too much strain on the English/Understanding of the panel recipient. Quotations are frequently altered, or taken wildly out of context by the panel. For example, one quotation from Ibn Arabi: “If you do not see Him, he certainly sees You”. The ‘Him’ here is Allah, with the rough meaning that God/Presence is always available, two millimetres underneath the ‘skin’ of Life. When the quote was used (frequently) by RB at meetings/events, however, ‘Him’ was mysteriously translated as the King of Clubs, with the idea ‘Be fearful, KC is always watching and waiting to pounce’. The difference in Life-attitude this change represents shouldn’t require any further comment!

    The Research octave is happy to skip over the surface of the deep pond of the religions/philosophies it proposes to ‘distil’. The attention-span of the octave is superficial and fickle, it doesn’t stay with any one subject long enough to really allow it to penetrate to a deeper level. The use of wordsearch as a tool is typical of this ‘shortcut’ mentality.

    Students are now being requested to ‘find’ visual images which re-inforce the current teaching and can be corralled into RB’s current constellation of interests (Pre-history etc). They have also recently been asked to pay particular attention to the number “11” or “10+1”. I.E. 6 steps of the sequence, plus 4 wordless breaths, then a new “Be” – the eleventh step – beginning another cycle.


  296. To Ames, 291:

    Thank you for your post, it create a much better envirnment to be open; I was about to delete this page from my favorit folder but you inspired me; although I was open before; but I understand now that to much positive spin is not accepted here. You are seeking relativity from me I think. Not to put words in your mouth, maybe you see 10% good and 90% bad about the fellowship, I would see it the other way. I am a thinking person, definiteley not brainwashed and I weigh things. I am sure there is a bunch of FOF who are brain washed, maybe Robert has something to do with it but I think it there own attraction in my opinion. Whether one once to say brainwashed, I woud say Robert has storng influence and I am gratefully so for this; although I have my frictions with it. I am sorry you think you made these efforts in vain when you were here, you did say you got some third state out of it. And for me, it is this third state I have made my aim to try to achieve; to work to be in my higher centers which takes efforts; and I rarely achieve these aims but I know in my “heart” this is what I want to achieve more and more (third state) before my death. I have verified I am a machine and full of features and false personality, and only being sincere with myself, trying to observe myself and tyring to divide my attention, that is being aware of my self and the enviroment and trying to keep a connection with something higher. The Sequence Robert is working with now is a new tool that I do support but I am still verifying it and experimenting with it. I am not in the group that thinks I have to follow Robert by the letter but I do believe that he is the best teacher I come across and I need to have faith in him and after 20 years still do and and it has only increase. You know, he has been teaching the same thing, to be present for over 30 years, and I do have friction with the new form, but the form is always changing and the message remains the same. Robert or this school has not taught me everything, Ouspensky, Gurdfieff were a big influence but FOF is in line with them, even now and it’s envirnoment helps me to achieve these aims. There is no doubt that even with Robert huge sex life and greed he loves his students from his heart, and guess what even loves his former students. He is very sensitive in my opinion. Sure, in a language that a few will appecitate he likes to suck a lot of cocks……Now, as for the juicey thing syou might want to her, I had a sexual relationship with the teacher and because I was homophobic at first it was dificult; but in my case I set the limits with Robert and he agreed. Now with others, I understand that they may have had bad experiences, I can only talk about my experience. When it ended I actually wanted more, not the sex, I gave Robert what he wanted but I got what I wanted, compassion and emotional energy and this balance was fine for me. There is alot of morality around sex and so many of us will have our opinions of what should be right or wrong. It is really subjective. I never felt negativity from Robert in the Bedroom and I will say there was a little pressure but if I was not up to it he never forced it on me. Absolutely Not! But yes this is sooo confusing issue and I see how it dis heartens alot of members and former members but for me it does not bother me in the least. It did though when I found out he was having sex, it took me five days to transform it and that is where the real work on morality came for me. Our society or culture hardly looks at sex objectively and myself included are bound by its forces. Everyone is going to have their own opinions of what is right or wrong.

    Now, because I am a man, I will retorically ask some of the men if your single or when you were young and chasing girls, did you want to get layed, of course! So you buy a women flowers give her gifts, ect. Yes maybe it is love sometimes and it is emotional but your objective is to get layed, at least for me, and I think I am pretty normal. And did you maybe put some pressure on the women to get some pussy, maybe make a few promises? Probably, and that is OK, so why can’t Robert do this, he is a man, (yea, I know I am going to a bunch flack that he thinks he is God); but I will just leave this for the moment. This whole blog is not about the FOF, it is about Robert’s sexuality and possible abuses of power; this is what it boils down to.

    OK, that is it for tonight if you want more my experiences then follow Aimes que; but if you tear me apart then I’m gone and there wil be no hope of “deprogramming me” 284.


  297. on July 25, 2007 at 8:22 am Bass Ackwards

    Joseph G [#230]
    No offense taken, as you well know, too.
    Yes, I agree, School life in centers, even small “healthy” centers, can be great to a certain extent, so long as one doesn’t peek under the lily pads, or smell the stench. No one else here does. But we do. We (gently?) try to show the slime to our Friends. And it is not a welcome sight. We experience the beginning of the “Shun” knee jerk response. But we are still in and “trying” (in their minds).

    We have flexibility about our meetings. These days most students prefer not to lead meetings on the Thoughts Journals. Instead we can choose a topic and smatter it with understanding and quotations from Nisargadatta. Students listen and love it, love to feel their own minds and hearts (finally) expanding. This is happening. Remember that song from the 60’s? “The revolution will not be televised, the revolution will not be televised, the revolution will not be televised…” Well, it won’t be televised, not on this Blog, though it will be because of it.

    Consider this: those who disappeared in the past did so quietly and quickly, we never knew the exact reasons or details, so they went into the “silent” cubbyhole. Those who were louder, were “negative”, so we could put them in the “negative” cubbyhole. Now, the silence is broken, but the straw that will break this camel’s back is UNDERSTANDING.

    We are doing everything we can – within the School – to bring real UNDERSTANDING to real students. It is the only way out of this Catch 22, the tautological impasse. Once a person leaves the School the chances of being heard diminish by about 100%. I understand this very, very well. It is a fact of (FOF) life. If one stays and offers to a Friend pure, undiluted, freeing understanding, in a non confrontational way, it is the best solution I can think of for dissolving this huge hypocritical misunderstanding called the Fellowship of Friends.

    Uno, call me a momma’s boy. That’s fine. Water off my back, kiddo.
    But I know your heart is true.
    And so is mine.

    Love,
    Bass


  298. Who is acting from the king of clubs?

    Consider this:

    Where can people like N_ck Spauld_ngs or Linda T. go when the fellowship of friends falls apart?

    They become poor, old and jobless citizens.


  299. 284 and 291 are newly moderated.

    UnoAnimo: Do whatever you like about the letter, e-mail may be a better idea than using the blog. If you want me to start a new board solely for the purpose of finalizing the letter then that can be done also.


  300. hello friends.
    Two spirits passed two souls sitting on a cloud whilst ascending to heaven.
    “Ahh spirits ” said the souls.
    The spirits were too polite to answer!
    ltya. Cy.


  301. Arthur – 214
    “In post 200 by the Shiek he reminds us that post 80 and 81 are newly moderated. I go back after I finish reading the rests of the posts, and what do I find? Two words used in my post. Half-baked and quasi.

    I will admit that my intelligence is about 1/4 of everybody elses. So, what is going on? Is it possible that I am picking up thoughts off this blog. Half-baked and quasi are not usually my kind of words.”

    ***********************************************

    Here is my opinion re. this “Twilight Zonish” experience which we all have from time to time, some of us more often, and a few of us all the time.

    For those of us who are regular customers (addicts) of this blog, we have acquired neurologically speaking a particular vibrational rate when we focus on The Blog. The Blog itself is a conglomeration of vibrations which has in the moment a certain common denominator. Literally speaking I would say that it has a certain “flavor”. Yes it is always changing, which means it is a living thing, a sort of entity, but by now and until a catastrophic event befalls it (which we all anticipate), the frequency actually doesn’t vary all that much. Now what you were getting at and suspecting. Every single thought is energy and energy cannot be destroyed. So the blog exists as a bunch of ‘mentation’ somewhere out here. Every time we connect with it we connect to a sort of entity, through our minds, like we do with a radio receiver (O.). This is the way that you pick up those words and thoughts. Now you can add a little more bass to your radio if you happen to prefer more bass and there are plenty of other fine tuning possibilities because after all it IS a quality device. There is also a common denominator between The Blog and YourSelf, and it is also changing from day to day, moment to moment maybe. If you want to check it out go back a half dozen pages or so and you might be a little surprised to find some other contribution you have made in the past that no longer feels familiar. Wonder why?

    To take this business a little further, the vibrations we contain affects our physical body and our non-physical body.
    For those of us still young enough to provide progeny (kids) to the world through our DNA, we can expect those kids to retain some of this vibrational info, in other words the thoughts which make up this Blog. So let’s not be surprised if some of them give us a big “Fuck You” from time to time.

    Cheers, my lovely friends All. Imo, All IS Extremely Well Indeed, and that is before breakfast even.


  302. on July 25, 2007 at 1:59 pm Another Name

    Dear fat boy and others,

    Thanks for your extensive letter and that is why I write back to you. Often I skip people who I feel are rude and negative.

    Reading your letter, I can see that we are coming from a complete different “stock” although we are both in the fellowship.

    For many years because of my job I really could not believe other students when they expressed themselves. My preception of the fellowship was that we there were similar”schools” similtaneous going on in OH at the same time. With this understanding I could explain different aspects of the fellowhip of friends. Now after knowing so much more I can not quiet my conscience.

    That is my first question to you: How can you live with the fact that young men are recruted for Robert, by sending pitures and asking for the size? How does your conscience see this?
    You can not compare this with courting, with young adults R spins a web for his “younger, non homosexual men”. That is very unequal, out of wack. Not an exampl for a new civilization to my understanding

    How can you explain the dissapearing of funds and sick people like J e-s-a, who can not afford medical treatment?

    How do you live with the fact that Rober uses money from inheritages for different purposes then the original plan of the deceased student?

    I do not think you have children, maybe I am wrong, what are you going to tell your son when he is 18? How can you live with this.

    I myself am not brought up with flowers and getting laid or laid….first friendship and then when things happen they can happen. From my point of view that is not the way I would teach teenagers. Remember the fellwoship is trying to go above life?

    I encountered many students who were alcohol addicted and the pain they have/had. How do you live with this info?

    Robert is very cold if you go your own path and if you do not see this I know there is something wrong with your emotionally. The way he lets students go especially the one who are not rich and do not have a lot of importance in art or the financial world is very cold and painful. Bad role model for students and children.

    Now at this phase in my live I can see that presence is here all the time. It is here while the physical does it thing. Enjoy it. This is what is called life. Presence is what is and what will be here, the body is an extension of that presence, a form that does it thing. If you need a Teacher enjoy it. I am grateful to give up dependency. I verified world 6 and 12. Something is connected to 3 and 0 …but I have no words for that.
    I am so grateful for what I have verified…I am still healing recovering from years of giving up my self will, from unnecessary suffering….I see now how many decisions I made on the wrong information. I have a lot of restorations to do. Time will solve these issues.

    In the meantime, my energy is now with you and I give you lots of light and warmth. A wish you can recognize and see what is already in you.

    Love, to all of you.


  303. Close but no cigar once again! An article on aboriginal art.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070725/en_nm/australia_art_dc

    On a completely different topic,
    This quote helped me find my true path. It maybe was given with good intention, but the laughter it now evokes serves me well:

    ” I have made more mistakes than any of you, but I have never repeated them”. R. (paraphrased, though may also be exact)


  304. Bruce, #276:

    “There was also a time where hysterectomies were being suggested to women for birth control because once it’s done, that’s it, no more problem.

    To my understanding some even took the advice.

    So how was the crown jewel of the new civilization after Armageddon, the glorious “1,000-year Reich” of awakened beings supposed to survive past the first generation without children? I guess that’s just another example of how us lower beings can’t understand the higher. Cause it sure don’t make sense to me.

    Sarcasm aside, I feel very sad for anyone who followed that madman’s “advice.” I’m sorry.


  305. Close but no cigar once again! An article on aboriginal art.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070725/en_nm/australia_art_dc

    This quote helped me find my true path. It maybe was given with good intention, but the laughter it now evokes serves me well:

    ” I have made more mistakes than any of you, but I have never repeated them”. R. (paraphrased, though may also be exact)


  306. After bloging yesterday I visited Isis and was amazed to see that a revolutionary spirit did not touch it AT ALL. I was prepared to see students worrying, talking about “what’s coming”, but – it is all peaceful as always, and the blog feels from there as something two-dimensional, and quite powerless lake a TV program which disappear when you turn it off. Unfortunately…

    Made me think that even if FBI will show up for investigation there they soon will leave “in peace”…


  307. on July 25, 2007 at 3:23 pm Living the Questions

    To All,
    There has been some warrior chest beating going on in some the blog posts lately. I have a couple of questions to ask those of you who think taking down the FoF and Robert Burton would be for the best:
    1. Have you really thought about what it means to become ‘first force’ in this triad? History is loaded with examples of seemingly noble crusaders ‘making the world safe for democracy or for the one true religion or whatever’ and just look at the results.
    2. Are you really prepared to accept full responsiblility for the results of your actions if you do become first force? Use your God-given creative imagination and mind to project some of the fall out and decide if you want to be responsible for this or not?

    I do not see this as a question of objective right and wrong; it is up to each of us to connect deeply with our consciences and do our best to see who we are what we actually want in this time and place.
    “Caution is the better part of valour”
    -Nancy


  308. my2bits, #278:

    Nearly 15 years after I left the Fellowship of Friends, I discovered I was very angry about what had happened to me there. In the intervening years, I had actively tried not to acknowledge it, mostly out of fear of some sort of divine retribution, I guess. After many years of chronic illnesses and chronic pain, things kind of came to a head, as they say. I acknowledged to myself that I was angry. It was quite shocking, actually how angry I was. I surprised myself.

    I recommend: 1) a good therapist and 2) screaming into a pillow (to avoid upsetting the neighbors/family).

    Good luck.


  309. Fat Boy (298)
    You wrote “Now, because I am a man, I will retorically ask some of the men if your single or when you were young and chasing girls, did you want to get layed, of course! So you buy a women flowers give her gifts, ect. Yes maybe it is love sometimes and it is emotional but your objective is to get layed, at least for me, and I think I am pretty normal. And did you maybe put some pressure on the women to get some pussy, maybe make a few promises? Probably, and that is OK, so why can’t Robert do this, he is a man …

    Well, Fat Boy, can you not see that there is a big difference between me using my own money that I have earned by the sweat of my brow to buy gifts for some woman and what Robert is doing? He uses the donations from the members (most of whom think the money is going to be spent for the common good) to buy outrageously expensive trinkets and clothes for his boy whores. Furthermore, most of those boys only give in to his advances because he says he is their conscious teacher, goddess, etc.

    Ask yourself why you gave into him. Isn’t that the reason? Because you thought he was conscious and he was doing it to help you somehow? Imagine if you became conscious. Do you think you would use your newly acquired powers, enlightenment, etc. to have your way, sexually, with others? Is that the way you think conscious beings would act?

    You also say, “There is alot of morality around sex and so many of us will have our opinions of what should be right or wrong. It is really subjective.”

    Forget morality, subjectivity, and all that. That’s just your way of justifying Robert’s behavior. What about just plain common sense? If a survey was conducted in the general public regarding the propriety of Robert’s behavior, how many do you think would approve? I doubt if a single person would. Why do you think that is?

    Finally, let me say that I’m glad you’re on here expressing your opinions and so forth. All the former students contributing to this blog were once thinking the same way and justifying like you are. If you keep trying to be honest with yourself I think someday you will figure it out and leave the Fellowship. I’m sure everybody on here is pulling for you to do that. Good luck.


  310. Dear fat boy, 298

    your letter touched me deeply. I know you so well! I don’t know your name, but what you wrote I heard from many friends of mine who are in a similar situation as you and it is just braking my heart.

    You are vulnerable, sweet, you are so open as if you were naked in front of dressed and armed people, but only those who love you can reach you…

    And I love you. And from this deep love of my heart I tell you with tears running down on my cheeks – you are an abused, confused, taken advantage of, naive boy, RUN from there. Those five days of “transformation” you were talking about were the days when the big damage was done to you.

    It is as in the Andersen’s fairy tale “Snow queen”. As Kay you are trapped by the powerful snow queen and your heart is frozen and your eye has a piece of mirror that makes you see things up side down… only the tears of love can melt your heart, it will hurt, hurt so much that you will cry too and then the piece will fall out of your eye…

    Much love to you…


  311. What a treat over my cereal!

    Thank you Another Name, Fat Boy and Bass Ackwards.

    Respect for you each.


  312. Dear Arthur-
    Although my head is in the clouds, I try to keep my feet firmly on the ground.
    Yes there are mysterious things happening and we are connected in very subtle ways.
    Many times I come to the blog to find that an idea or a subject I had wished to address has been expressed more eloquently than I could have.
    We are less different than our ego would have us imagine we share many of the same concerns and perhaps connect to much finer levels than we are normally aware of which connect us all, the air we breathe is the same air, we breathe air that the Bhudda breathed and also anyone else you care to think of.
    There are beautifull and mysterious things occuring all of the time.
    I try to only accept those things which are absolutely verifiable and put the others on hold.
    Some people like Rawbert Burton become deluded by not doing this and pre-maturely accepting the first apparently from another level things presented to them and establish what to me appears to be a faulty habit of doing so.
    The now famous forty four is a case in point.
    Once while driving to the bay area alone with him in his little mercedes coupe, I asked him directly how he had come to the conclusion that there were that precise number of conscious beings working with us.
    His reply to me as to others was that he had had the question occur to him and immediately after saw a sign with a big forty four on it.
    While beautifully naive and childlike, to me this constitutes building on a shaky foundation.
    He then because of believing this intensely without a shadow of doubt and through constant repetition, also because of his position was able to hypnotise many people that it was true.
    here is an exerpt from the teachings of the Bhudda who avoided meta-physical discussion.
    Dhammapada. Chapter one. entitled Contrary Ways. Stanzas.11 & 12.
    “Those who think the unreal is, and think the Real is not, they shall never reach the truth , lost in the path of wrong thought.
    But those who know the real is, and know the unreal is not, they shall indeed reach the Truth, safe on the path of right thoughts.
    Also Arthur “the race is not to the swift or bread to the wise”
    lty. Cy.


  313. #286

    Thank you Unoanimo.
    You are right, this is a common story.
    We need to remember and write all our stories for the people who are considering joining the fof and also for the authorities who may be observing the crime going on at OH.

    The other story, the one who drove me out from the fof, is much more painful and created a big change in my life.
    It was a blessing in disguise after all. I am still journeying and am on the open path.
    True, I feel lost sometimes, but not for too long.
    Life is too precious to be wasted under a false guru and school.

    Love back to you.

    (I’ll be off list for a few days…many changes can happen in the meantime…until then!)


  314. Because US is a free country FBI will hesitate to get involved due to the constitutional issues. INS might try something but it hardly will change much.

    Newspapers are not interested in writing the article unless some legal action is done. But one thing can make a difference – a public opinion. One or a few people can write a letter to an editor and that will show up in the newspaper.

    http://www.appeal-democrat.com/sections/services/forms/editorletter.php


  315. Some light entertainment of a mysterious nature.

    ltya. Cy.


  316. 299 Bass Ackwards: “If one stays and offers to a Friend pure, undiluted, freeing understanding, in a non confrontational way, it is the best solution I can think of for dissolving this huge hypocritical misunderstanding called the Fellowship of Friends.”

    Some of my current member friends are trying the same thing here in OH, organising dinners and so forth.

    It reminds me a bit of when Christina Nielsen tried to separate the European part of the FoF from the U.S. part. A group of sympathetic centre directors, including myself, got together for a w/e in France to discuss how this could be done. It came to nothing because most students viewed Robert as their teacher and their main reason for being in the FoF.

    Times may have changed since then, I suppose, and I wish you luck, but I have to say that what I see in the people here who are trying these things is that it’s just another way of delaying leaving.

    best regards, RN


  317. So few current Fellowship of Friends students are posting to the Blog because the majority are asleep in feminine dominance, Burton has managed to pervert the idea of “being present” into a form a behavioral control.


  318. on July 25, 2007 at 5:22 pm Purchasing awakening

    Crouching Tiger, thanks! It is hard to believe that this home-made ‘teaching’ could be taken seriously by anyone with brains…

    And here is an example of visual distortion: an altered Tarot cards manufactured to fit the ‘keying’. A student was actually hired to redraw the original cards.
    (I’ve included an original card with various animals and fake ones with sheep and goats)

    And here’s the description to confirm the lie (note that Robert doesn’t admit the card forgery in his ‘keying’):

    “Turn around and rise above the world” refers to the wheel of fortune. In the Wheel of Fortune tarot card [X], the wheel is turning to the left, towards the goats—the ten thousand ‘I’s that oppose presence. Rumi said, “Turn around”—that is, turn to the right towards the sheep—the ‘I’s that promote presence. In Exodus 3:1, Moses “led the flock to the backside of the desert.” This means that Moses, the steward, went to the edge of the second state with his work ‘I’s; he turned it around.


  319. Re #287 Janna

    “I have a feeling this man has never experienced true friendship or love, regardless what he says.
    Otherwise, how he could order lovers to separate, children to be given away, friendships to be cut off, pets to be killed? Which king of hearts? This man is as COLD and heartless as a rock on the moon. Except that he actually inflicts pain and suffering to others while the rock is just peacefully laying there…”
    ______________________________________________

    You are describing one of the most chilling characteristics of a pathological narcisscist.

    Re #297 Crouching Tiger

    Regarding the way quotes and ideas are gathered for meetings:

    I always found it rather amusing that students found the quotes and then paid to go to the meeting to hear them read.
    _______________________________________________

    I want to echo some of the posters who are encouraging personal stories. I think that these stories, related as accurately and sincerely as possible, contribute alot towards helping current members begin to question.


  320. #297 Crouching Tiger wrote:

    “Long quotations are discouraged, they put too much strain on the English/Understanding of the panel recipient.”

    This entire scenario sounds like the old engravings/daily card projects years ago in FOF. Researchers dug up short, profound sounding quotes that RB liked and they were displayed below the steel-engraved visage of the writer. And the little card with the letter-pressed quotation was always waiting for you on little tables at the Lodge, on a daily basis. Most of the journals published by RB had the same clipped quotes and thoughts.

    For me the pattern through all this has been RB’s inability to develop a thought for more than a few seconds. Why write a treatise (which is much work) when you can recite a 2-line quote pulled from someone else’s work. Do this with a seriously pained expression on your face while wearing expensive clothes and gaudy jewelry, and you have a teaching.


  321. Some thoughts on gold alchemy and a question (or request) for all here.

    I try to see gold alchemy as something we all have to strive for, not as something that any of us actually possesses (permanently).

    I try to achieve gold alchemy with as limited means as I have: keep my surroundings neat and clean, buy some flowers for in the house now and then, listen to a classical music cd if I can’t afford a concert, etc. In fact, I even think literally displaying (too many) gold items in either clothing (jewels) or housing has nothing to do with gold alchemy.

    I think gold alchemy is not a primary tool in the Work, but I do think it is an important secondary. The feature I most often observe in life (and in myself) is tramp; intentionally striving for gold alchemy seems to me a necessary step in counteracting the relativism so predominant in contemporary civilization.

    Imagine you would go out of the house for a stroll right now; you walk out and you see everywhere around you dirty streets, junkies, unmaintained houses, ugly concrete flats, broken cars, people dressed in (fashionable) rags (and lots of golden jewellery, even on men), people eating stale fastfood and dropping refuse on the street ; when people talk, they shout, curse and argue, etc. What kind of impression would such scenery make on you?

    I see gold alchemy for example in G’s exhortation to ‘work like a man’:

    “The secret is small and very easy—one must learn to work like a man. And that is when a man does a thing and at the same time he thinks about what he is doing and studies how the work should be done, and while doing it forgets all—his grand-mother and grandfather and his dinner.” (Early Talks)

    On the other hand, striving for gold alchemy in externals but not in internals seems to me worthless and less than worthless. I think this is where the teaching of the fellowship of friends has gone wrong: it has fallen in the direction of the pharisee, polishing the outside of the vessel at the expense and neglect of the inside.

    “The lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees cleanse the outside of the cup and of the platter; but your inward part is full of extortion and wickedness.” (Luke XI.39)

    Or, in the words of M. Nicoll:

    “You may treat a person outside you well. Yes, but how do you treat the person internally, in your psychological world – this invisible world known only to yourself? After a time in the Work, if it begins to act on you, you feel far more uncomfortable through wrong feeling than through anything you may have done outwardly. The Work is not mainly about outer life, but about inner life, and here sincerity and valuation are necessary – not pious, not artificial, but genuine. You can feel a fool for having behaved wrongly externally but you must begin to feel worse than a fool if you have silently, in the privacy of your internal psychological life, your real life, treated a person in a mean and miserable way in your thoughts and feelings, though no one knows it. So it has often been said to you that it is how we treat people internally, invisibly, in mind and feeling, that counts. The commandment: ‘Thou shalt not murder’, means, esoterically, in one’s inner life. It has a psychological meaning apart from a literal one. I fancy that some of your now know what I mean and what inner wretchedness can arise when one speaks to oneself negative things about others, and enjoys them, and then plasters up one’s face and appears externally as an angel. The inner and the outer must correspond. This is a long task. They must, like two clocks, keep the same time.” (P.C., vol. 2, p. 694)

    And last but definitely not least, I don’t think higher centres are dependent on outer gold alchemy; this is perhaps a case of confusing Refinement and Regeneration. My own highest states (incl. HEC experience) have been produced – all a-f-t-e-r leaving the fof – by reading G’s books, practicing G’s Movements, and trying to apply the Work ideas as explained by Nicoll in the Commentaries. Of course, other methods may exist, I just expose here what worked for me so far. Fellow bloggers, please share your methods!


  322. Do you like music as a motivator? Try ‘Dire Straits’ – “Local Hero/Into the Wild” – pure intelligent melody. “Music hath charms to sooth the savage breast……………….Nigel.


  323. 308 somebody
    “After bloging yesterday I visited Isis and was amazed to see that a revolutionary spirit did not touch it AT ALL. I was prepared to see students worrying, talking about “what’s coming”, but – it is all peaceful as always, and the blog feels from there as something two-dimensional, and quite powerless lake a TV program which disappear when you turn it off. Unfortunately… ”

    I would be pleasantly surprised if people were openly talking about the blog at “Isis” but I’m not expecting that for all of the reasons stated here in the blog: mostly, the fear of being kicked out.

    Don’t you think the “revolutionary spirit” that you describe is very unlikely to show itself out in the open — at meetings, dinners, receptions, etc.? When it does, those people are immediately shown the door. That spirit is much more likely revealed in private settings, in one-on-one conversations, and in private residences, and in coffee shops away from other members of the fof.

    Since you are still a part of the FOF, why don’t you openly ask some people what they’re thinking? Go to Apollo D’Oro, and ask: “What do you think of these allegations against Robert Burton?” “Have you read the blog? Are you still reading it?” “Are you thinking about leaving the FOF?” And tell us what types of reactions you get. And then continue to ask these questions. What happens?


  324. 323 Nigel

    – Yes.
    – Just did. It left me wordless :)
    Thank you, Nigel.

    PS. Here are some of my favorite musical links:
    http://alicelovesshakespeare.blogspot.com/2006/05/pythagorean-music-with-links_24.html


  325. The prophecies of this blog’s early demise were about as accurate as Robert’s prophecies.

    Thanks to those who put their heart and souls into sharing with friends.


  326. Ask 10 people on the street if they have heard of “Scientology” and most likely at least 8 or 9 of them will be to answer affirmative. Clearly B-influence, high-profile, celebrity connection, etc. Now ask same 10 people if they know of Gurdjieff, 4th way, etc. and you will mostly get puzzled looks. C-influence protect relative purity of teachings.

    If, in fact, C-influence has left the school ( and it sounds like mostly under dominion of A-influence now – i.e. money, power, sex.) Then it will not be long before attack dogs from national media move in. Bill O’Reilly vs Big Bad Nobodaddy and all the ex-fofer’s boo-hoo-ing on The “No-Spin Zone.” Yikes… what a circus will be!!!

    Horahkti prediction #1 most likely to be realized soon.


  327. Fear can be a great denying force to moving on with ones life. I have gone through many changes of being in my life. Each time I experienced a transformation it appears that I only went kicking and protesting and only proceeded with a good kick in the ass. In general only when some situation became to unbearable to continue would I move on.

    It is the difference between theory and practice. At best the Fellowship is a nursery for young souls. Strangely each member enters seeking consciousness, unity, conscience and will. Yet when faced with choosing to follow ones own verifications hesitates, becomes doubtful seeks comfortable conditions.

    I am coming to believe that the relationship of members to the Fellowship of Friends is similar to an addiction and may need to be addressed in a similar fashion.

    Here are a variation on the first 3 steps of AA

    1)We admitted we were powerless over Robert Burton and the Fellowship of Friends–that our lives had become unmanageable.

    2)Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

    3)Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of a higher power of my own understanding

    Step one admitting one is powerless includes accepting everything is exactly as it has to be. That’s it. Yes, powerless can mean the same as “man cannot do”. You can however be.

    step 2 came to believe-describes a process of spiritual awakening. This is part of developing faith in your own verification of a higher power of your own definition.

    step 3- Of course this is the same as Rodney Collins description of the right triad of self remembering. So interestingly enough the “cure” for the fellowship is self remembering but in a sense of developing your own relationship with a higher power.

    One of the crimes of Robert Burton and the Fellowship is not being the words. Each of you has all the information you need. Lack of knowledge is not usually the defining problem of Fellowship members it is lack of being. The 12 steps are an octave and define a process. Done correctly they require three lines of work. For oneself, others and the larger whole. They also require a sponsor, this can be seen as a teacher but not like Robert. A teacher in the sense of someone who has already done what you need to do. To find such a teacher it is necessary to know what you want and find someone who has it. Then ask in the right way and do what your told.
    This is a process in itself. It should be part of the Fellowship, I fear it is no longer cultivated.
    For a member considering leaving. This may mean finding someone who has left and asking for help. Perhaps there is someone you know and respect who would agree to serve as a guide during this time. This is not a forever relationship. Know what you want, go after it ,move on.

    Work for others means you can’t slink away like a coward but you need to make some effort to educate those still trapped in the imaginary world created by the Fellowship. It is not important that they “get it”. It is important that you do it. Being requires the courage to follow conscience. You need to start now.

    Also the blog can be important.
    !2 step group have meetings. There is a general proces involved. At first new members hear other people describing experiences, thoughts and feelings they have not articulated, this begins to give them the courage to tell their own story, this is an important part of healing. after a while you tell your story for the new comers because it is important that someone be there for them as someone was their for you.

    There can be no rigid heirachy when eveyone is moving at their own speed. What is critical is the idea of putting one person in your place. If you are in the Fellowship it is not important that you foster negativity towards the school or teacher. It is important that you get in touch with your own capacity for critical thinking, sense of values, feelings of conscience and your own sense of a higher mind.

    This is an absolute Law. Higher mind on the planet earth wants you to remember yourself, develop individuality, consciousness and will. The words don’t matter . These experiences are and will be uniquely your own. Robert Burton is no different than any false priest in all ages in all cultures who wants you to believe that only though him can you contact higher mind. This is foolish as it implies higher mind is stupid and cannot think for it or them selves.

    These steps are not the beginning of change. They only begin when you have already begun to move out of a state of denial about your situation. If you are a happy camper in the Fellowship they have no value. These are for someone who has already begun to feel a definite “SOMETHINGS NOT RIGHT HERE”

    You do not need to give up efforts at self remembering or your individual development to leave Robert’s teaching. The opposite is true. Efforts to remember oneself, develop conscience, individuality and will can help in fact are the only real indicators of what is the right direction for you to move in.
    Gurdjieff said “remember your self always and everywhere “not to say you want to just do it.


  328. 272 Fat Boy

    “I could be wrong but somehow I would say a good deal of the writers agree with me in that if we limit the vulgar, insults then the discussion would be more constructive. But I think that some writers would be afraid to support me on these points because they would get a host of critics on their asses and they too want to be accepted.”

    Try not to be in imagination about others just be yourself. And stop the fucking whining its unbecoming if you want to be taken seriously. I read crap like that and think hell , they’re dumber than a rock .

    “It seems one has to be certain way to be accepted on this blog, or your going to be run off with insults; seems we have to make our comments in such away as not to piss off some of the vicious attackers.” I might care

    This is such a feeble argument. It is one that is used over and over against freedom. It is chaotic lets have some order around here? Roberts new meeting format shows how sterile order can become.

    You have the absolute freedom to not read any post by anyone you chose not to. You have the freedom to write what you chose and think what you chose. So stop whining or maintain a dignified silence.

    I cannot say that I don’t care what others think, I just don’t care all that much. I care more about paying my bills, and dinner. These are just words on a moniter.


  329. “There is no doubt that even with Robert huge sex life and greed he loves his students from his heart, and guess what even loves his former students. He is very sensitive in my opinion. …., I had a sexual relationship with the teacher and because I was homophobic at first it was dificult; but in my case I set the limits with Robert and he agreed. Now with others, I understand that they may have had bad experiences, ….There is alot of morality around sex and so many of us will have our opinions of what should be right or wrong. It is really subjective.”

    Dear Fat Boy

    There are few stories from wives of RB boys for good reason – the shame involved is incredible. But, believe me, we are around in numbers. The shame is two fold, one at being a wife or serious girlfriend who’s beloved man is having regular sex with someone else. But the shame I most want to talk about is living with, witnessing, the man’s shame. My husband was with RB a long time ago and he is NOT homosexual and the sex was coerced (he was an ‘idiot’ type). He was shamed into it by not being a ‘high’ being as RB. After being shamed into the sex, it was incredibly shameful for him to have enjoyable physical sensations. It haunted him for years and impacted his manhood – his perception of his manhood. This is VERY IMPORTANT for a man, it goes to the very CORE OF HIS ESSENCE and has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with feminine dominance or morality. RB shit on these men a festering scum cloud deep into their core. It takes extreme measures to heal from that and clean it out. I feel very sorry for you and very sorry for a woman who loves you – your cloud is still festering.


  330. on July 25, 2007 at 10:00 pm Laughing Love

    Fat Boy (280) wrote to me:

    “Your post was sincere but I do not feel you have really put yourself in my shoes or the shoes of member who would like to make comments. In any case, so be it.”

    The truth is that I and all ex-members were in your shoes for many years and would have had similar reactions had this discussion board existed.

    I know exactly what it is like to believe that I am an elite person who, somehow, among the billions on earth, was chosen and that any who disagreed were simpletons and inferior. That is what I was told to believe.

    I also know exactly what it is like to verify that it simply isn’t true.

    Again, you have chosen to participate on this board. People are not necessarily going to agree with you. Yes, you will find that some speak the truth harshly and others more gently.

    Either way, I imagine that most of the time it will not be your truth.

    You are participating here for a reason. What is that precise reason?

    LL


  331. 329

    It is just a bit embarrassing. It’s like “things have to be such and so, or I’m not gonna play, you coarse, mean creatures. I’m not used to being treated this way.”

    But you know, this is the kind of crap that’s supported and reinforced in the fof.

    Any kind of independent “public” thinking is rewarded with the photograph “You’re expressing negativity”. I can see how so many of the men’s masculinity is being reduced and replaced with RB’s nauseating refined “acts”.


  332. Hey Bass, good afternoon; (299) ~

    That’s sorta presumptuous my friend, that I would call you a ‘momma’s boy’ just because you’re in the Fellowship of Friends… It’s a bit more ‘refined & intentional’ than that…

    ‘daddy’s boy’ maybe,

    though truly my friend, it’s just an observation, not a judgment on anyone;

    unlike the methods handed out by most of the stoic, true personality fixations in the Fellowship of Friends, some of us have arrived at the astonishing revelation that a little bit of humor mixed in with an objective observation can make it’s way into the profundities of the heart quicker (with a little love too) than what the stoicism of the King of Clubs (coupled) with the ‘I am a good student giving a serious photograph, of whose being a bit perturbed at what triggered the ‘I’ to give it, is even more serious’ aura, does, i.e.,

    take now bleeding thumping heart, put on meat slicer, step back, see how many sandwiches it will cover for the lunch crowd.
    __________________________________

    Hello ~ Fat Boy (298) ~

    You wrote ~

    I gave Robert what he wanted but I got what I wanted, compassion and emotional energy and this balance was fine for me. There is alot of morality around sex and so many of us will have our opinions of what should be right or wrong. It is really subjective. I never felt negativity from Robert in the Bedroom and I will say there was a little pressure but if I was not up to it he never forced it on me.
    it is about Robert’s sexuality and possible abuses of power; this is what it boils down to.

    Post 284 wrote ~

    “Why was this married student in a happy relationship guided to go to the hospital to abort two healthy fetuses? Robert loved the beautiful, handsome husband and it was during the mid/late 70s when the School could not afford to have students be distracted by the emotional or expensive aspects of children.

    This potential mother and father were in in pain but followed Robert’s directives – it was not a pretty situation. Years later Robert got his guy back and the wife was left to earn money outside of Renaissance while her husband was on salary.”
    __________________

    Fat Boy; hello again,

    One of the advantages of this blog form is that (as entities searching for objectivity in our lives and not just the ‘new diapers feel good, heavy diapers feel bad, side of life) we can merge ‘certain posts’ together and gain some ‘soul composure’ and practice un-binding ourselves from the automatic emotions of certain forms of ‘little me-nesses’,

    to gain a kind of ‘scale & relativity’ that perhaps, if your school was a school of awakening, you would have; and not need this surrogate blog’s milk, which, may or may not be what you’re after, if so,

    simply use the scroll bar that god has given the computer age, that’s what it’s for, to skip those ‘darn long posts’; if you’re going to stay with me reading this, let’s roll…

    For me, your experience with Robert Burton was very You, not a “balanced” ‘We’, (what you call “balanced” many, after sex, call, you’re smiling cause you had an orgasm, I’ve got this yearning look because I did not),

    lot’s of pre-sex conditions too (mostly from your side) and this certainly changes a free flow sexual triad from what the other’s (RB’s) ‘truer nature’ would have, if he was left to just ‘shop till I drop-ness’… You can find example of Robert Burton’s ‘other side of sex’ within the first 2 chapters of this Blog…

    Yes, there is ‘soft sex’ too; though this happens by default or happenstance; and is mainly just the ‘soft moving to the hard stage’ of the octave involving how Robert Burton, for those who endure the metamorphosis, transforms the shy (“homophobic”) into, let’s say, the not so shy or ‘why be formatory little me’…

    I read your post very carefully, it’s honest, (your ‘honest’, very subjective, like all of us, so please don’t fool yourself into thinking ((IT)) WAS HONEST, i.e., conscious sex, real ‘we-sex’;

    your post, though not ‘Honesty’, albeit very one-sided; you will see that I posted (Post 284) underneath it… I did that for your consideration;

    (if) you had read that post prior to being asked to ‘have sex’ or ‘make love’ with Robert Burton, would you still have done it? If the answer is ‘Yes’, then this blog will do very little for that ‘you’…

    Some love to be loved, though do not love the lover.

    Some love to give love, though do not love being loved.

    Some love to hear about love, though say nothing themselves.

    Some love to join love, though have none when alone.

    Some love to love their own loving and see no one, nor their love on the ‘circumstantial’ receiving end.

    These are all stages ‘Fat Boy’, no one is finished growing down here; so, truly, although something in you ‘thinks it’, no one is out to judge you as if you were a static impression, we all, deep down, are only guides, guests,

    not ‘real’ judges able to sentence anybody anywhere, it’s simply not a ‘power of cause’ we’ve earned yet…

    See, some like to get to know their lovers, even if it’s a one night stand;

    it could simply be a profound and quiet essence connection where you simply know it’s all perfectly pure and innocent, the power of intuition and conscience can be that profound:

    other times, by certain facial ticks during certain questions and wonderments, body language, a certain sort of touch, the heaviness of this or that focus, tells another story,

    perhaps a story one does not want to mingle one’s sexual atmosphere with; this is very subjective, though…

    As teenagers and “horny men” (and women BTW), if the horn is the only musical instrument, conscience and intuition connections can simply not be there in the ‘triad’, but it sure shows up after the orgasm doesn’t it (?) That’s material for another book…

    So, we change; I certainly did… If the sex energy (that’s moving in the direction of a sexual dance) is not playing joyfully in the eyes of the lover, then I simply cannot function, period…

    Rarely did I find this sort of laughing celebration between myself and another, while ‘sex itself’ played ‘third force’, not first… Yet, things do change, features lighten up after a certain kind of trust is established and partners can grow, sex can grow… I’ve found it, yet, finding is not keeping, nothing is…

    Although I do not know how long your time with Robert Burton lasted, by reading your post, I noticed that your education of Robert Burton’s essence (and not so essence) did not flow equally with your sexual education;

    Robert Burton does not like to talk about ‘feelings’ before sex, particularly if they are feelings that sense there’s something ‘hurtful’, ‘bias’ or ‘perverted’ in his demeanor, his way of approaching someone, while not considering their wives or girlfriends feelings or possible repercussions as to his ‘rather self interested’ way of getting in between couples or the possibility thereof…

    Not to mention (or to mention) the belittling attempt on his part to radiate the ‘I teacher, you student’ aura and subtle hints of your misfortune if you say ‘no’ to his advances or simply the traditional, no more anything, so far as your role at Isis was or could have been only if you had… (and ‘yes’ he lets all his generals know that you said ‘no’, just in case you’re ever ‘accidentally’ chosen to lead a meeting, usher, work for a voucher or gas up the mercedes.

    I do not doubt that you had a genuine sexual encounter with your ever curious erection, many of us still are having such ‘right connections’;

    yet, besides the curiosity of the erection,

    there’s the ‘will you respect me in the morning thing’

    (that’s called conscience and the heart wanting to sing first, before penis and vagina (or otherwise) start their opera).

    What Robert Burton lavishes upon his ‘afterwards boys’, to me, is simply a buffer as to what he cannot ‘do’ for their questions, their heart-curiosities as to his contradictions, his real position in the now, his untransformed and leaking lifestyle of

    giving pain in the disguise of being a ‘teacher’ whose students are charged to transform such BTW non-teacher ways,

    too, these ‘gifts’ serve as compensation only on an ultra-physical, tactile level, not unlike the sex… to me, there’s no ‘making love’ going on in there; plenty of wine though very little reciprocal inspiration…

    Look what happens when 100+ people collaborate with your teacher on something as academic as ‘translation’,

    lies, altering images, altering context of said quotes, etc.

    If you ‘think’ this ‘style of being’ is isolated to the outer circle or the first and second tiers of the three level inner circle, then you might want to reconsider;

    this ‘way’ permeates the sex too and those who have it, the infra-sex that is, there’s a big difference between the two; what you experienced was ‘formatorily contained’ within your self-prescribed ‘do’, your beginning, not his and is very much out of context to this blog’s area of transformation;

    as I see it, we are here to transform entire octaves, not sections called ‘entire’ because the experiencer has (unknowingly) yet to see the entire octave belonging to Robert Burton’s complete painbody expression, let alone their own; if you’re not ready to complete octaves of inner-seeing, then Robert Burton’s school is for you, and the ‘not so you’, if you know what I mean…

    you’d ‘think’ that having conscious sex with a ‘got joy of sex and happy to be with you’ kinda guy would ‘make love’, would ‘make different, more normal’ the boys,

    take a second look, it does not, it only separates them more and more,

    turning them into ‘little bobs’, able to live their lifestyles and ‘personal sections of life’s pie) only within the octave of Isis… Outside of Isis they are lost and less normal, very less normal…

    Proof?

    The way people treat ‘the boys’, like not wanting to step on a sidewalks crack in case of breaking mother’s back.

    The sad, puppy eyed look you get when you ask one of them to go into their conscience and do the work.

    The ‘vouchers for sex with Robert Burton’ octave.

    The affirmations of gifts, rather than moderation and call for change of level of being themselves outside the proximity and automatic assumptions thrust upon them by being one of the chosen, with gives them license just to make stuff up as people’s presumptions come along.

    That all the boys do not lead meetings; save the one’s that show Robert’s reflection best…

    The ‘boys’ who think they’ve had a complete sexual experience, the only kind or type possible with the teacher or themselves in such a context (without the heart to heart confirmation). Not knowing/realizing (yet) that a much deeper level of encounter is just one effort away from taking them beyond the ‘little me with puppy eyes’…

    Are any of these ‘boys’ not so good looking?

    Are any of those men, who ‘love’ Robert Burton enough to have the same kind of sex with him that he has with the boys, permitted?

    Are any of these men, older, more mature participants; individuals, well rounded, etc., taking an active, more independent role in Robert Burton’s lifestyle? Where’s he’s affirming them, not them him?

    Do the boy’s become more dependent or independent of their prescribed roles assigned by Robert Burton’s personal needs, not their personal needs?

    The list goes on and on…

    Fat Boy, no one, no thing, can tear the real YOU apart; so try no to be being fooled by your painbody’s paranoia of ‘stick and stones’ (and words).

    I am glad you’ve decided to stay and share; as Ames said, it’s important to remember that there’s a point where everyone has pretty much transformed and done the same things, the history is not important to us, it’s who you are in its context… that’s our depth here, that’s our way of making footprints, in the shoreline’s sand, not Robert Burton concrete.

    ___________________________

    Hodgepodge ~ 291

    Your questions about the letter…

    Well, answer your own question by making some efforts to circulate it, do some follow up calls, etc. Your efforts and results are the best answers to this sort of thing…

    Zerox a few hundred copies and mail them out…

    Remember, one toothpick can cause an avalanche, and in “Chronicles of Riddick”, there’s even some pretty amazing things that just one tea cup can do…

    _____________________________

    Hello Sheik, (301) ~

    Fire up the cauldron, let’s brew something!

    __________________

    Love to you all.


  333. 330

    ““Your post was sincere but I do not feel you have really put yourself in my shoes or the shoes of member who would like to make comments. In any case, so be it.”

    Back to your pompous, absurd posts huh Fat Man?

    First, we were in your shoes before you were wearing shoes. Second, where the hell did you get the idea that we’re here FOR YOU? Of course, you MIGHT be the only person in the FOF who thinks the world should revolve around them, and their aim to salvage humanity through the unique gift of RB’s school.

    If you want your ideas, and yourself protected from the rigors of the real world, then stay where you are, literally and figuratively. But don’t drag your baggage in front of us unless you are willing to replace your haughty pre-programming with some humility. Because some of us will be on you like flies on shit. That’s life on earth.

    You can just as easily enjoy your “Eloi” shangri-la without smearing it all over us. We’ve been there, we’ve made our choices. You’re playing on our field. Don’t like the rules, then take off.

    It’s obviously fine that there are plenty of people, even here, who are ready to help you lick your wounds, and assuage your feelings. I’m not. As far as I’m personally concerned, you have brought very little here, and have asked much too much.


  334. Fat Boy

    “I gave Robert what he wanted but I got what I wanted, compassion and emotional energy and this balance was fine for me.”

    Compassion and emotional energy.

    If this is truly one of the reasons you’re in the FOF, why you choose RB as a teacher, than you certainly do need help, but not the kind the FOF can give you.


  335. Fat Boy

    Jumping back to the body type day..you’ve got to be a solar.


  336. on July 25, 2007 at 10:24 pm Ames Gilbert

    So, Fat Boy, wouldn’t you agree that Former Student’s Posts just above are rigorous, but fair? He’s giving you the straight talk, no shit. That’s being truly kind and generous.
    There is no time to lose, we each have no idea how much time is left. You cannot afford to indulge Burton’s theory that there are multiple lifetimes, there is no evidence whatsoever that he is telling the truth. And there can be no evidence. You have this moment, perhaps the next, and maybe the next. You don’t know. If you don’t know how to begin a rigorous, disciplined exploration, the kind I think you signed up for when you first joined the FoF all those years ago, Former Student has offered you some guidance.
    Ames


  337. A BIG thank you to Crouching Tiger. AND Purchasing Awakening, too. You are both voices of sanity among the insane and deluded. I am amazed by the depth of sleep that would enable presumably intelligent people to collude with such a breech of ethics in the practices of the so-called ‘Research Octave’. Robert Burton has apparently switched from Christ’s ladder to Dick Cheney’s ladder….is it his fondness of…?

    Dear Nancy: Living in Question

    “There has been some warrior chest beating going on in some the blog posts lately. I have a couple of questions to ask those of you who think taking down the FoF and Robert Burton would be for the best.”

    Is it for the best? In a word, yes.

    “Have you really thought about what it means to become ‘first force’ in this triad?”

    I struggle with having to play ‘tit for tat’ with you here. Suffice to say that Robert Burton has assumed the first force in many a triad despite the octave’s consequences. The fall of California is case in point, not to mention dear Brian S.

    If you think that Mr. Burton has the prerogative as a self-proclaimed ‘teacher’ to act in such a manner as to influence people’s lives so profoundly, justified by acting in the interest of their evolution, then Allah willing, I can assume the same prerogative! I am clear that he is no more just than I am in my cause and certainly no more holy than you or I. You will learn a great deal from the experience of the conscious ending of the Fellowship of Friends; that I guarantee you, and it will indeed be in the interest of your evolution. Time will tell.

    “History is loaded with examples of seemingly noble crusaders ‘making the world safe for democracy or for the one true religion or whatever’ and just look at the results.”

    The crusaders were the other guys. Your example illustrates your lack of critical thinking. In fact, Bush’s foray into Iraq ‘to make the world safe for democracy’ was based on ‘cooked intelligence’, as the Fellowship of Friend’s Research Octave as been so corrupted to do in relation to its agenda. Many argue here that the very foundation of the Fellowship of Friends was based upon lies. The results speak for themselves. There are more of us ‘out’ than of you ‘in’. And paradise is a big place, not some ‘elitist country club in the foothills’.

    I personally am not looking to start my own school and have no desire to do so, nor am I promoting any new form of religion. We must all face the formless and unknown one day, each in our own way, on our own path. That is the truth. Why not ‘institute’ change today in the present, and not pine for it eventually at some future date? I, like many others posting here, am acting from my conscience. Let Allah be the judge.

    “Are you really prepared to accept full responsibility for the results of your actions if you do become first force?”

    The way is clear: we must fly from evil behavior. Can you not see the will of Allah at work here? One person alone cannot do this. His names will not be used for vanity purposes, as the Robert Burton and the form of the Fellowship of Friends have done and continue to do. And we are all accountable for our actions.

    To wield Saifullah, the honorable sword of Allah, you must be brave and fight only for truth, not for personal gain. We are now in an age where that battle is waged as a war of words in cyberspace. This is a brave new world and power is invested in whoever controls information. Robert Burton and the Fellowship of Friends are at hand corrupting the truth.

    “Use your God-given creative imagination and mind to project some of the fall out and decide if you want to be responsible for this or not?”

    This sentence is not phrased as a question, yet you add a question mark at end of it. It is not a question for me. Again, we all shoulder that responsibility, each in any capacity they are able.

    The wise man understands that change is both good and bad. Right now, the status quo for the Fellowship of Friends is also both good and bad, too. How much more bad than good will it take for the followers to make change? That’s a sore subject for debate. As many stuck in it have said, it’s Robert’s school.

    The harsh reality is that change is the rule. To evolve we must change. That is the law of seven, the law of octaves. Otherwise any octave turns in upon itself and becomes its corrupted opposite. Robert is at that part of his octave. Robert will never be able to suck enough dicks to propel him out of his descent. He is crystallized in manipulating his follower’s dopamine levels for his own gain and other’s expense.

    Deep down, he harbors the fear that he will be crucified like Christ. On many occasions he has alluded to this. That is his guilty conscience speaking from its narcissistic void, fearful he will be persecuted for carrying the ‘stigma’ of his unchecked sickness. Witness his psycopathic personality needing to take its vacation in debauchery. Christ didn’t have to make any effort to spin his legacy for posterity while he was alive! His actions spoke for themselves, as did Mohammed’s.

    We all have the choice to be reactive/passive or proactive to change. I speak for myself and choose to be proactive. I give myself permission to creatively imagine the positive ‘fall out’ of the end of the Fellowship of Friends and speak as my conscience dictates. Others are in a better position to do more, and I heartily thank them for it.

    As for the negative fall out, I have complete trust that Allah is merciful to the pure at heart.

    Thank you, btw, for acknowledging that God has granted each person the independent use their creative imagination! Shall we imagine a win-win situation with the intentional ending of the Fellowship of Friends, as opposed to its sad disintegration after the eventual death of its founder? Or maybe he’s planning to reappear after death to those whom have ‘received’ his host in order to keep things running?

    “I do not see this as a question of objective right and wrong;”

    Then you are blinded by your faith in Robert Burton. I sincerely pray to Allah for your soul.

    As a parent, I can empathize with other parents, that if I would not want my child to be subjected to the perverted acts of Robert Burton, then by God I would not want any other parent’s child to be exploited by him either. Out of respect for my Mother, so she passes over to the next world in peace, I will never divulge to her what I experienced under Robert Burton’s sick tutelage. She’d want him stoned to death in the market place.

    “…it is up to each of us to connect deeply with our consciences and do our best to see who we are what we actually want in this time and place.”

    I aspire to live by your advice. When you truly have a conscious aim other than your own personal self-gratification or self-calming then your higher centers will be fully engaged. One’s conscience is the driver and energy source for the higher centers.

    “Caution is the better part of valour””

    My spell check didn’t like your spelling of the word valor. This is the deeply ingrained Fellowship of Friend’s vanity and programming…adding or altering letters in certain words to make the user more ‘refined’. You have limited understanding of the word, valor. You have agreed to be a perpetual follower by your membership. Only leaders display valor.

    I believe you have been cautioned, haven’t you, as Robert Burton as been, even by his most ardent ‘friends’ who appealed in writing to him that he curb his behavior ‘for the good of sounding a healthy ‘do’ to the octave of the next civilization’.

    In my estimation from the reports of others, Robert Burton has gotten worse since I left. This is not a surprise attack. Yes, let us both proceed with caution.


  338. 264 Hey Somebody, it’s good to see you again after all these years! Very good to see you after our first encounter. Thank you. This whole letter is to you too.

    266 Former student, I am as amazed as you at the amount of horror that has gone by the fellowship in its thirty five years without having stopped it long ago.

    It makes the inner circle who has put layer over layer on top of it so much more responsible for our having payed endlessly for nothing and supported all the other abuses.

    The degree to which their hands are filled with mud is shocking and so many things make so much more sense about the extent of their coldness. Cold and sick, my Girard, the lindas and Karens and even all those beautiful people like Dambecks and Gideons and the whole lot of us who ever participated in it going against ourselves because everybody else was doing it. But it wasn’t everybody else so much. It was the few in the inner circle who sold their soul and bent to make it look real. The few who’ve taken too much of what they wanted and can’t let go of it, to their own misfortune. Like monkeys that can’t let go of the coconut: Trapped in their own greed. Maybe not the money, but the power, the prestige……but what prestige when Robert stripped it from you against your own power so that he could justify being the only recipient of it and you accepted it in your guilt.

    When I began writing, I knew how horrified I was by the little I had seen but not the extent of the horror that has come forward on the blog.

    The attempt to paint me crazy and be done with the problem, shoving it under the carpet like always before was just a hair away from succeeding.

    There may be a few naive ones willing to continue in the fellowship of Friends who are willing to shove it under the carpet, but they won’t be able to say in seventeen or twenty five years that they did not have the opportunity to “LOOK” and “FEEL” and “ACT” like so many of us didn’t that many years ago.

    There may be a thousand not so naive that are willing to shove it under the carpet and hold their bridges because they’ve already put too much of their instinctive centre to let go of it, but they too will not be able to say that they are naive. That justice that A friend told us eight or nine pages ago that did not exist in this world, might exist a hell of a lot sweeter than you ever wanted to taste it.

    I thank you all so very much for having brought your stories forward, all, before and after I joined the blog. They are immensely valuable. The ones before helped me to acknowledge my understanding and know that I was not alone and the one’s after helped me realize that I was not the only mad one here.


  339. 299 Bass Ackwards: “We are doing everything we can – within the School – to bring real UNDERSTANDING to real students. It is the only way out of this Catch 22, the tautological impasse. Once a person leaves the School the chances of being heard diminish by about 100%. I understand this very, very well. It is a fact of (FOF) life. If one stays and offers to a Friend pure, undiluted, freeing understanding, in a non confrontational way, it is the best solution I can think of for dissolving this huge hypocritical misunderstanding called the Fellowship of Friends.”

    Interesting. A number of current student friends are doing something similar in OH, organising dinners and so forth, trying to help their friends see the light. This is a phase that many of us have gone through as the realisation that the FoF is a disaster slowly permeates. In looking back at myself when I was trying this, and looking at friends here who are trying it now, I see it as just another way to delay leaving. Leaving eventually seems to be inevitable for anyone who sees through the FoF, though in some cases it takes a while – too much fear of the unknown beneath the psychological surface.

    Introducing Nisargadatta quotes into a FoF meeting may be temporarily helpful in a superficial way. But there’s something in FoF-style meetings that is fundamentally antithetical to everything Nisargadatta says. There’s no way anyone will really “get it” in that environment. In fact as soon as his words get intellectualised they lose their power. It’s really risky trying to shoehorn your new Advaita understandings into the old FoF conceptual framework.

    Sorry if this message is partially repeated in another entry –I lost the original this morning (I think).

    Cheers, RN

    PS 298 Fat Boy thanks for your courage and honesty.


  340. Hi Fat Boy,
    now when you say: “There is no doubt that even with Robert huge sex life and greed he loves his students from his heart, and guess what even loves his former students.” –

    this is not a brainwashed statement?

    Why there is “no doubt”?
    To me there is plenty of doubt, in fact, plenty of proof that this is not so.
    I heard this phrase about Robert’s great love to his students repeated by followers again and again, but you know what? This is how he ends every event, every meeting – by telling you this. He repeats this for years to you so then you can repeat it to yourself and believe it. This is what is called “brainwashing”.

    And his actions? They SCREAM of lack of love and compassion, they show coldness, selfishness or just indifference! Oh, I saw it, I have experienced it, not once and not twice. Many people have verified his true “love”, so many stories, too many…
    His “love” is purely conditional and it depends on his personal interest in you. If you’re useful to him in some way – here comes “love”(or clever manipulation). Not useful anymore – you’re dumped and don’t exist for him. If you cross him or object him, or (God forbid) compete with him for his boys – he hurts you so cruelly, without any human compassion…
    Really, he simply DOESN’T CARE for any person but himself. Can’t you see this? When he hurts someone you know – what do you say to yourself? That it doesn’t matter? That this student was a jerk anyway? Or do you just close your eyes and repeat: “Teacher loves me now and forever”…

    Where is his unconditional love to me now, after I spent over 10 active years in his school and paid him over 50K? My friends who spent over 20 years and gave him hundreds of thousands of dollars were cut off and forgotten, without good bye and thank you, and wouldn’t even be acknowledged as human beings by your loving teacher…
    “I love you now and forever” – yeah, right.

    “Loves from his heart”…”Loves former students!”… “I am not brainwashed”…

    Give me a break, Fat Boy! Really.


  341. on July 25, 2007 at 11:12 pm Was KathleenW

    337 WhaleRider . . .

    WhaleRider, this post doesn’t sound like you. Or I guess I should say that it seems different from the way you usually express yourself. Whazzup?


  342. 337

    “Deep down, he harbors the fear that he will be crucified like Christ. On many occasions he has alluded to this. That is his guilty conscience speaking from its narcissistic void, fearful he will be persecuted for carrying the ‘stigma’ of his unchecked sickness.”

    I don’t agree entirely. His “I will be crucified” bull shit is exactly that. Part of his home made myth. Of course he HAS called some who have left Judas, but that’s part of his super-inflated picture of himself. He’s a tasteless old gay man with too much time and other people’s money on his hands, surrounded by his “workers ants” to move his spiritually bloated self from one side of the nest to the other.


  343. Hello 334, 335, 336 and everyone ~

    An idea ~ With this draft-letter going up soon; will people volunteer to take a chapter in the blog and pull from it the applicable material to list on this letter?

    For instance Bruce = Part 1 Nancy = Part 2 and so on…

    Once the letter format is up; please, after posting your findings, leave your name at the end of the post and what number and chapter it is from, like ~

    Bruce.Part3/post654 or Bruce/3/654

    This letter will serve as a sort of concentrated ‘soup mix’, that current members and those outside of the Fellowship of Friends can read and sense the ‘deeds’ and ‘gestures’ themselves in their ‘ingredient’ form compliments of the Fellowship of Friends burnt down restaurant, that, BTW, RVW used as a sales ploy to sell hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of wine telling the customers at the get go ~

    “Did you hear? Oh, well, no body died, so rest assured; nut we would really like for you to consider buying some wine to help us rebuild… This went on for 6 months (or more). Now that’s in true ‘burton conscious-ness’ yes?

    Lay on the ‘sorry, next lifetime story’, then ask for money so you can support a School of Awakening, (hummmmm)…

    pay him to get wrapped in a cocoon by some big butterflies or isn’t it the ‘worm stage’ that creates it’s own cocoon?
    ______________

    l.t.y.a.


  344. Hey KathleenW (341) ~

    You mean the Allah references?

    Get a grip home girl; how long have you been reading this blog; look hither grasshopper, go back, way back, maybe start with something before part 16… you guys crack me up.

    :)


  345. #295 Nigel, re: Rushkin quote. Thank you for that!


  346. Hey Bruce ~

    You wrote ~

    “…to move his spiritually bloated self from one side of the nest to the other.”

    _______________

    Not sure that the other side of the nest would be any different than ‘the other side of the nest’, if you know what I mean.

    How about “a kick in the ass” and out of the nest altogether?

    _______________

    ;’)


  347. 329, your “projecting” big time and it sounds like your the whiner! The tone has slightly changed on this blog, and it does take a few reminders to peolple not to get carried away and start spewing out vulgarness.

    330, LL, thank you for your post and the question is perceptive at the end. At first, I joined in to give some relativity on the FOF side and when I was attacked so vigourously and rudely I realized this would not be possible. It was not Bruce or the other vulgur and rude posts that helped me to come more clean in my post 298; but actually other more thoughtful posts.

    332, I started reading your post but it is just all over the place and soooo long. Don’t mean to be critical, it just might be my attention span is low.

    336, Ames, yes to your question. I never complained about straight talk, or directness; only rudeness and vulgularity. For there is no place for that in any type of forum, family, ect, but the queens get involved and it only makes things decend. The tone is better today on the blog!


  348. 331 THAT GIRL

    Very powerful post. Thank you.


  349. 322 On alchemy.

    Dear Alice,

    It’s pleasing to follow you all the way up the road in your understanding of alchemy and yet I’d be happy to invite you to look at the grim picture of the tramps that you paint and think of the possibility of transforming those too, for transforming them, is gold alchemy spirituality.

    From one angle, there is no difference between the tramp we all fell into by supporting Robert’s excesses and those tramps in the street that you mention.

    Transforming both is the real issue. To me, it is fine to hold each other into account for our actions, words and feelings but to be able to understand that behind the scenes is a human being victim of his times, play and decisions, no less responsible but not more either. Every man in jail is a human being even if he has attracted a death sentence.

    The way we can treat each other is no different to the way one can treat one’s self and while there are I’s that need to be banned for ever, the very human I that might have been resting in exile for too long, is always welcome.

    If you are true and non judgemental to those tramps that you mention, you will always evoke beauty in return.

    Where does non judgement lead?

    I too am learning about this. Perhaps that is why I call the inner circle and Robert sick and not criminals. They are sick in as much as I assume responsibility for their state and criminals in as much as I judge them. I will let others call them criminals if that is what they are under the law, visit them in jail if they allow me and listen to what they have to say if they ever wish to speak. Of course, they don’t really think that they are going to jail, but that is because they think they are not in it.

    Another aspect of the subject I’d enjoy looking into is the possibility that we all have gold alchemy in a certain area, the area of our talent.

    And yet another one is more of a question in relation to the external gold alchemy as Robert has taught it. I have an aunt that has had not a lot less money than Robert and has a lot finer taste and no matter how much I would like to have reached her level of finesse, there is something about it that is very questionable. That is, that they have somehow replaced all their lack of human values for valuable objects and forms of beauty and yet, what is amazing from an even more compassionate angle is that in the long run of human lives, their efforts for that beauty will also count on their behalf, for nothing is wasted.

    Very much like certain kind of men or women who think being a little prettier makes one more valuable. It is a good thing that age takes care of that!

    Perhaps the point is that even beauty is questionable.

    Robert denied himself the possibility of visiting the Taj Mahal because he could not overcome the misery in the Indian airport. He took the flight back immediately after landing.

    To me, the Taj Mahal is Self Remembering put into architecture, worth bearing no matter what misery, just like one’s own innumerable obstacles.

    What can embrace the misery of diving and risking one’s life but the passion that knows that inside the oyster lies the pearl?

    If Robert had had any of it, he would have had no problem in visiting the Taj Mahal but he considered himself too good to have to bear with the misery. No wonder he did not have the will to spare others from his own misery.

    The strange ironies of life.

    In gratitude, Elena.


  350. 350 Fat Boy

    “For there is no place for that in any type of forum, family, ect, but the queens get involved and it only makes things decend. The tone is better today on the blog!”

    Get fucked Fat Boy.


  351. 316 somebody

    Because US is a free country FBI will hesitate to get involved due to the constitutional issues. INS might try something but it hardly will change much.

    If a significant number of citizens file complaints the FBI will have to investigate. As Ames pointed out the Fellowship of Friends books will be very unlikely to fool an accomplished forensic accountant and believe me the FBI has some of the best anywhere. All they need is enough accusations to make it reasonable to get a search warrant to examine the books. The FBI also has jurisdiction over international sex crimes.

    There is no INS it is now part of Homeland Security and they might be very interested in Roberts importing male prostitutes using green cards as Church ministers.

    What is important to think of is that we, those who have been participating on the blog did not not of many other parts of the play of crime until exposed to the information here. There are statutes specifically designed to combat interstate criminal conspiracies. Claiming to be a church for tax reasons then marketing the Fellowship as a 4th way school is fraud. Not giving members a copy of the Canons is fraud.The Fellowship just changed their own web site due to pressure from those who consistently challenged their wikepedia article to reflect their legal status as a church.

    If one person complains that will not have much effect. If a number complain and are willing to file affidavits of what they saw or experienced than the process will begin. Also the statute of limitations is not absolute. Indications of an ongoing criminal conspiracy can be used if they go back past the 7 year time limit.

    As far as Unoanimo’s questions about whether they would participate that is of course a question of conscience. Basically though from a very unjudgemental place if you are not willing to come forth than it might be best to consider the validity of much of what you so prolifically post
    words without action tend towards lying.


  352. Anyone remember a hair dresser amongst other things, Richard F.
    A sweet good looking gay guy who died of aids, contracted after having taken a walk on the wild side outside of the pseudo school.
    What a strange contradictory situation he must have found himself in, living in O house, in a sea of sex energy and being schooled by a rabid queen who was having sex with the frequency of a machine gun, as if the world was going to end tomorrow.
    Yet himself having to work with the no sex outside of marriage and especially no homosexuality exercise.
    Plus no gay marriage!
    What the hell was he supposed to do? turn straight?
    Even Butman hiimself couldnt do that, as he told me.
    Alex H, His short term teacher requested that he try to be with a woman so he tried but found it just wasnt for him!
    He told me her name and type too.
    Im surprised there wasnt a no masturbation exercise but there probably would have been if anyone was so “indelicate” as to have asked about it.
    Is the utter hypocrisy of the no homosexuality exercise which was in force at the time as it was considered the wrong foundation for a new civilisation lost on anyone.
    Now its in danger of becoming a syphilisation!
    All it takes is for one to get infected and then tratatatatata the domino effect! and it wont just be the guys….
    take care folks
    Cy.


  353. 355

    There wouldn’t be a masturbation exercise unless it could be connected to money. Like $25.00 each time you do it. They probably could have dropped all the other special donations.

    Richard WAS one of the few gay students who RB did exploit sexually. It happened in the boy cottage while I was there, I remember being surprised by it, but if I remember correctly it was before he was diagnosed.


  354. 342, Janna. You have your opinions and verifications and I have my opinions and verifications. I spent a few years with Robert on an almost daily basis and I have my verifications is that he cares about his students. At the same time, yes he rules with an iron fist.

    I will say that alot of student want to please Robert and this is so phony, even myself will do it because I am mechanical. But I think this lies with ourselves and Robert is not necessary asking for this. I have been so many times direct with Robert during my travels or did something stupid, thinking he was going to blast me; but he didn’t. I felt compassion many times. And not to piss of the critics too much and give some relativity there are times that he makes mistakes. When he does see it, he does not apologize, but I see is he may send a gift or compliment to smooth things over. Anyway, as we know he is four center being, but it my opinion he is a good teacher and his higher centers are working better than anyone I have met.


  355. #298 Fat Boy Wrote:

    “Now, because I am a man, I will retorically ask some of the men if your single or when you were young and chasing girls, did you want to get layed, of course! So you buy a women flowers give her gifts, ect. Yes maybe it is love sometimes and it is emotional but your objective is to get layed, at least for me, and I think I am pretty normal. And did you maybe put some pressure on the women to get some pussy, maybe make a few promises? Probably, and that is OK, so why can’t Robert do this, he is a man, (yea, I know I am going to a bunch flack that he thinks he is God); but I will just leave this for the moment. This whole blog is not about the FOF, it is about Robert’s sexuality and possible abuses of power; this is what it boils down to.”

    OK Fat Boy, I will answer your so-called rhetorical question:
    I thought I had done enough chasing of girls simply to get laid, when I joined the school. I was young at the time (just turned 19) it was the early 1970s in California and there was a lot of “pussy” available. When I first encountered the writings of Ouspensky, I took very seriously his talk of infra-sex and proper channeling of the energy of the sex center to create higher centers. I was horny as hell, but I had a deeper desire to change. So I gave it a try. I didn’t have any type of sexual relationship for my first 2 years in the FOF. Imagine my surprise when the teacher, tried to force his disgusting, fat tongue into my mouth during a trip with him to the eastern USA.

    “And did you maybe put some pressure on the women to get some pussy, maybe make a few promises?”

    Actually, I never did this with women members of FOF (or their children), especially when I had a role close to RB, where I could have been really opportunistic. Did I see others around RB doing this? Hell yes! And, these same fine young men were rewarded even more from RB for their casual use of impressionable young women. As long as their cock and balls were available to RB, what was the harm?

    I suspect, Fat Boy, that you are from a culture, where women are commonly treated as sex objects, existing solely to satisfy the macho mans every desire. If this is true, I can understand how you could rationalize RB using you in the much same way. But, if you have not yet seen beyond this curtain of your programming, what hope is there for you?

    “Now, as for the juicey thing syou might want to her, I had a sexual relationship with the teacher and because I was homophobic at first it was dificult; but in my case I set the limits with Robert and he agreed. Now with others, I understand that they may have had bad experiences, I can only talk about my experience. When it ended I actually wanted more, not the sex, I gave Robert what he wanted but I got what I wanted, compassion and emotional energy and this balance was fine for me.”

    This describes a negotiated sexual relationship, much like that of a high-priced prostitute. You set the limits of fun for RB (maybe just blowjobs but no parking in the rear?) and he gives you what you wanted. Can’t you see that you are admitting to being a whore?
    Think about it.


  356. To all currant Fellowship of Friends members

    As a divine messenger from higher mind I have a task to pass on specific information.
    I am not a teacher and will accept no students.

    The prophecies were a test to see if you would stay loyal to the school.
    You passed as a reward you are here by given permission to Remember yourselves and enjoy the rewards of your efforts. No depression, earthquakes or nuclear war now what?

    Robert Burton was entrusted with the care of our little nursery for souls and has abused that trust.

    Have no fear, there is justice and you and he will all get exactly what you earned.

    The next step in your development is simple-Be the words

    I now absent myself from this blog

    The true teachers are amongst you

    Seek and you shall find
    Ask and it shall be delivered unto you

    “The way to liberation is to train yourself to live in the present without
    waiting to become anything. Give up becoming this or that, live without
    cravings, and experience this present moment with full attention.”
    The Buddha


  357. on July 26, 2007 at 12:10 am Living the Questions

    To Whalerider, Post 339:

    I am an ex-member of the FoF, not a current member. I left the Fellowship in 1996 and was a member for twenty years. I will respond to your post in more detail later, as this is a topic of interest to me. Thanks for your straight and honest posts on the blog.
    -Nancy G


  358. Bruce, 353:

    Bruce said, “Get fucked fatboy”.

    Do you mean fuck my wife toinght for fuck Robert? Both of them are away a the moment.

    Is it connected to sex? So thank you very much that you are interested that I enjoy my life with sex.

    Oh, maybe I am mistaken, you mean get fucked, like, get off this blog? or get off this earth? And die? What does get fucked mean?

    I think I know, I pissed you off, you got angry and you could only respond from the lower depths of your self. Or your a lunar and just had to be opposite, remember your the “queit” one.


  359. Reposted for ‘closer to right here’ reasons ~

    331 THAT GIRL

    “There is no doubt that even with Robert huge sex life and greed he loves his students from his heart, and guess what even loves his former students. He is very sensitive in my opinion. …., I had a sexual relationship with the teacher and because I was homophobic at first it was dificult; but in my case I set the limits with Robert and he agreed. Now with others, I understand that they may have had bad experiences, ….There is alot of morality around sex and so many of us will have our opinions of what should be right or wrong. It is really subjective.”

    Dear Fat Boy

    There are few stories from wives of RB boys for good reason – the shame involved is incredible. But, believe me, we are around in numbers. The shame is two fold, one at being a wife or serious girlfriend who’s beloved man is having regular sex with someone else. But the shame I most want to talk about is living with, witnessing, the man’s shame. My husband was with RB a long time ago and he is NOT homosexual and the sex was coerced (he was an ‘idiot’ type). He was shamed into it by not being a ‘high’ being as RB. After being shamed into the sex, it was incredibly shameful for him to have enjoyable physical sensations. It haunted him for years and impacted his manhood – his perception of his manhood. This is VERY IMPORTANT for a man, it goes to the very CORE OF HIS ESSENCE and has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with feminine dominance or morality. RB shit on these men a festering scum cloud deep into their core. It takes extreme measures to heal from that and clean it out. I feel very sorry for you and very sorry for a woman who loves you – your cloud is still festering.


  360. 356.Bruce.
    That is shocking, he told me he didnt like gay guys, but I thought it was just a safety thing, as “preying” on straight guys would seem to minimise the chances of catching something.
    Seems like you must remember correctly or there would have been an epidemic.
    lty Cy.


  361. 362

    It’s not that he didn’t like gay guys (Richard was very pretty, too much for RB to resist, and I don’t think it was often, and I don’t know exactly what occurred behind the closed doors, but I do remember Richard’s face when he walked out), but I think,for him, the power thing in relation to debauching straight guys was just another ego boost to his already sick psychopathology. Any gay can fuck a gay, but ALL STRAIGHT BOYS??? what a conquest.


  362. Dick 358, I respect your post. I respect woman also and no one has ever accused me of being Macho; I was just trying make a generarl point that we are all sexual beings and most of us think about sex or strive for it.

    Also, you might want to look in the dictionary to what a whore is? I thought about your question but the same negotiating goes on with my wife (please don’t ask me for details) and probably most couples have similiar relationship around sex.

    Is this whole sex thing with Robert and boys odd? Absolutely yes! He is triple active machine, and does not “inner consider”.


  363. 364 Fat Boy

    I’m beginning to see that you have a slightly (or not so slightly) screwed-up idea of “sex, relationship, marriage and love”. So all your absurd babbling is not entirely your fault. But Jesus, you’re unbelievable.


  364. 362

    Sexual self-loathing also might play a part in the straight guy only thing.


  365. 364 Fat Boy

    “He is triple active machine, and does not “inner consider”.”

    Translation: He’s a psychopath who doesn’t give a shit.


  366. Hello Fat Boy ~

    You wrote ~

    “Anyway, as we know he is four center being, but it my opinion he is a good teacher and his higher centers are working better than anyone I have met.”
    _____________________

    Then your ultra sarcastic post to Bruce; which pretty much makes your presence here (for your truer self, that you’re always seemingly whining to be fed, by more conscientious posts, more of) just a few notches shy of outright silly of yourself;

    actually, by the time I just finished that last sentence, it has risen to be ‘outright silly of yourself’.

    I don’t mind ‘whining’, sometimes I even see some whimpers ‘whimpering’ out of me; something on my desk that I didn’t put there, maybe there won’t be enough hot water to take a lonnnnnnnnng shower, ‘who left the lid off the cat bowl?’, ‘where’s the milk for my tea dammit?’, etc.

    It’s when I find myself not caring whether the next person has a long shower or not or simply wiseacre that they themselves wouldn’t really want what I want, it is here that I must thank god for The Work; otherwise three story houses would have a very different meaning for me…

    Again, you wrote ~

    “Anyway, as we know he is four center being, but it my opinion he is a good teacher and his higher centers are working better than anyone I have met.”
    __________________

    Then you have not met yourself; (yes, I am being a bit presumptuous, yet, what tha hell, it’s July… and you’re on a ladder with only one wrung)

    I think I am going to have this I quoted from you above as an epitaph, written on a granite tombstone and place it somewhere deep in the woods, so that anyone ever finding it will think there’s somebody buried down there, under it, you sure do…

    Maybe they’ll even build a shrine, enclosing it, protecting it, it’s nothingness with their everything and never actually dig to verify their totality of their conscious being, the intuition that just wants to see, to touch, to smell the inside of the tomb…

    If you are not a ‘god’, how can you fairly believe in one?
    ____________________

    Fat Boy, your childish post to Bruce is really as honest as your relationship to Robert Burton, he has taught you well, you even mirror his “leaving India” level of being… Thank you for the verification that your entire post concerning ‘your’ experience with Robert Burton and yourself is an exhale away from being cousin to the Mad Hatter.
    ____________________

    l.t.y.a.


  367. Fat Boy
    You are not American or English.
    Its more your attitude to it thats odd.
    What are the details with the wife?
    And how does she feel about you and R.
    Have you told her or is she one of those strange creatures I have been informed of who like to be with a man after he has been with R.
    The sooner the better in order to feed of of the “energy” as its the closest they will ever come to the real thing.
    Yes such poor creatures exist!
    I guess we shouldnt be surprised at you either, the universe is endless there is plenty space for an oddity like you.
    So I guess I shouldnt feel any pity for you.
    Have you been to Egypt? because you seem to be in de nile!
    cy.


  368. Hello ~ 362 cyclops

    You wrote ~

    “356.Bruce.
    That is shocking, he told me he didnt like gay guys, but I thought it was just a safety thing, as “preying” on straight guys would seem to minimise the chances of catching something.
    Seems like you must remember correctly or there would have been an epidemic.
    lty Cy.”

    ______________________

    Well cyclops if you think that is “shocking”, try this on for size…

    (BTW ~ Did you just join the Fellowship of Friends last week?)

    Greylin has been one of the closest people to Robert Burton for as long as dirt has been considered soil and he’s gay, where have you been, sharing house with Fat Boy?

    Word!


  369. Cyclops ~

    I know this will be a shock since you’re half way through your prospective student meetings, though, no better time than the present…

    Robert Burton has ‘sex’ with straight guys because he likes to ‘give it to them’, he likes being the first to painfully sodomize them and he likes the pain they feel having their anus painfully entered and compromised by a ‘perfect priestess of pain’…

    Damn, you guys are really showing true Fellowship colors today…

    Word! (again)


  370. 365 Bruce: I guess your babbling is profound. I said a few general things about sex, and maybe they are not clear because of the speed of this blog today. I believe in being open and talking about sex with my wife, that is all I mean. You don’t have to answer my question but do you think you are capable of giving me an honest answer of what, “Get fucked fatboy ” or are you just going to respond the same way. Also be careful as in on of the other posts this might get misinterpreted and you might get wasted by a rapper.

    361: I know Robert has hurt alot of men, I have not buffered this, even though it did not hurt me. If I could change this I would, but of course it is not in my power. I do not want to touch the wounds or make the wounds worse fo the these men. I know when your young and naive and your Teacher hits on you it is hard to resist…..for me too. With that being said, one can just say no, many have and they are doing fine today in the FOF. Morality around sex is different for people and cultures and this issue is very difficult to discuss. But I really do understant the pain; but on one hand this blog might help to bring it to light and on the other hand make it more than it really is.


  371. 371. uno.
    Oh my god what? Graylin is gay! is that why he is so sweet jeez. Thats it Im not going to the third introductory meeting.
    Cy.


  372. You are a sentimental idiot – Fat boy, and you are where you belong. In the fellowship of fools. How for the sake of GOD can you think that someone can have the level of Jesus or Socrates as of somebody who is giving in to every material whim and of somebody sucking thousands of cocks. You can probably also imagine Buddha sitting under a palm tree masturbating. I’m sorry for you but you miss the necessary elements within yourself to even become an normal human being.


  373. 368. I have no idea in the world why I would be called childish and you praise Bruce. I admit I was a little sarcastic and silly in 360. The funny thing is you focus on my post and cheer Bruce. If I ended this post right now to you, which I am not going to, but showing for example and said what Bruce said to me,

    “Get fucked unoanimo” I guess that would be OK with you.


  374. 372 Fat Boy

    My friend, and I mean it, you are most assuredly wrong. You have been significantly hurt, and it shows, and that’s completely alright. How you are dealing with it right now is completely appropriate for you, but it is “temporary”.

    Regardless…right now this is your path and direction. But do me a favor, back deep, in the back of your mind, please file the following:

    Yes, you are responsible for your decisions.

    Things happen the way they are supposed to.

    at the same time, also (at least equally) true…

    You didn’t “do anything wrong” that brought the “play” on you.

    It’s not “your fault” it happened to you.

    Giving yourself up to RB was a crime perpetrated ON YOU.

    You don’t have to agree, you can think I’m wrong or crazy, but just let these ideas sit idle in your being, because they just might be of help sometime in the future.


  375. Oh yeah…”Get fucked” is another way to say fuck you. I didn’t want to get too predictable.


  376. uno .
    seeing as how I left the place like fifteen years ago its not exactly fresh in my mind. poor Graylin, such a nice little guy.
    Is it hearsay about the cherries or do you Know for sure I mean from experience.
    Anyway I believe you and it does “ring” true.
    BTW what fucking side of the bed did you get out of today ?
    cy.


  377. 376 Fat Boy

    Does it ever make you wonder, how odd it is to be hurt and upset by “naughty words” while it’s ok to be used as RB’s fuck toy?

    Do you see any irony here?


  378. Hello Fat Boy ~

    You wrote ~

    “Get fucked unoanimo” I guess that would be OK with you.”
    _______________________________________________

    Not sure why you are quoting yourself; but, considering your situation today I guess it’s in true form.

    Yes, it’s “OK” with me, especially when you have no real reason for saying it…

    I trust my intuition, that’s my subjective ‘right’ (if I can use such a loaded word)…

    Bruce has (his) reasons; I do not “cheer” Bruce’s language or ‘personal form’, I cheer his reason, that is all…

    So, Fat Boy, if you still can, get a grip; someone in here love’s your possibilities and confusion and curiously it’s not you at this point in time, so to speak…

    We sure are entertaining our guests today; yet, maybe it’s actually happening Fat Boy, you’re breaking up, similar to the ‘almost off the cliff’ situation that happened to Howard Carter, before he dropped out in the middle of the twelfth grade… maybe you’re loosing it, if so, keep loosing it, I’ll stay with you so long as you are HERE, if you know what I mean…

    l.t.y.a.


  379. on July 26, 2007 at 1:45 am Laughing Love

    Hello All.
    Wow. The agony and pain caused by Robert Burton is certainly very apparent in the very male interactions above.
    The sheer anger involved in the sexual issues is really clear.
    Naturally, I, as a female, do not have any direct experience with the degradation involved. (I done never had no man stolen.)
    I will admit, that the most recent posts have given me a very clear picture of the utterly justified anger involved.
    I can only hope that the expressions will continue.
    Expressing the anger is the only way.
    Fat Boy’s proud expression that he was (is? Can’t keep track) Robert’s lover is very odd given that he is a married man. It is amazing how one can twist oneself into a pretzel to fit the bill.
    Ouch. The truth is starting to scream.
    It wants out!
    LL


  380. Bruce 376, thanks for surprising me with your tender side, honestly.

    Oh by the way, fuck you too, (I am just joking).


  381. Fat Boy #364, #372

    “Also, you might want to look in the dictionary to what a whore is? I thought about your question but the same negotiating goes on with my wife (please don’t ask me for details) and probably most couples have similiar relationship around sex.”

    Fat Boy, I apologize, my use of the term whore is a little harsh, but I am glad you thought about it, since that is the point of these posts.
    I understand what you are saying about sex with your wife, still, I assume that you both truly care about each other and therefore discuss things and make sacrifices and compromises from consideration and respect for the needs of each individual.
    Come on now! Have you EVER witnessed this kind of relationship between Robert, yourself or any of his “lovers”?
    It is always skewed entirely to what he wants. He owned you! (you were a gift to him from C- Influence)
    For years I rationalized RBs strange ways much like do in your posts. I too transitioned from being one of his objects of desire to being a middle-aged married “buddy.” Loyalty can be admirable, but also extremely stupid and sometimes criminal. Keep in close contact with your conscience.


  382. Hey Cyclops ~

    You asked ~

    “BTW what fucking side of the bed did you get out of today ?”
    ________________________________________________

    Hey, how do you know I got out?


  383. 384 uno.
    I was referring to your indelicate tone to “almost godlike” me.
    anyway gotta go to mine.
    good night john boy, goodnight mary ellen…


  384. 379, Oh yea Bruce, thanks for pointing out the irony, I was going to do myself but you beat me to it.

    Anyway, I am just repeating the same thing last two days, basically I try to be honest but I do not appreciate the vulgarness, but it keeps popping up and my type just does not like to ignore it. We wasted alot of time with this, it takes efforts on both sides, and I have been trying to tell you my doubts and my positive verifications. I have no problem with directness, opposition, but sarcasam, and rudeness which I was quilty of also to Bruce in 360 also makes me want to go off this blog, and I am hanging on that moment. And maybe some people as mentioned HC in 380 drop out in the 12th grade because of be insulted so much (I don’t know though). There is going to be a lot of bullshit on both sides and sure bring the light on it.


  385. Fat boy is German. How did you get this fat anyway? Robert does not like people who are “overweight”?


  386. Fat Boy “…he (RB) makes mistakes. When he does see it, he does not apologize, but I see is he may send a gift or compliment to smooth things over.”

    That’s disgusting…

    I remember a few years ago one Russian woman was crying (she left FOF) because she was raising a baby while her husband was sleeping with Robert and “to smooth things over” RB gave her a gift – a Russian scarf… Plus demanded to wear it every time she was going out where he could see her. That was pure sadism!


  387. Dear Fat Boy, you either don’t understand my point, or you don’t WANT to understand. (Which is cool by the way).

    OF COURSE Robert was nice to you! Were you nice to him in the bedroom???
    This is exactly my point – he is “nice” when you’re nice. This is not the “unconditional love” that he announces all the time in public!
    But have you ever tried to question him, critique him, confront him or tell him straight something unpleasant but true? No, I don’t mean little boy’s prank that he didn’t punish you for. I mean – have you ever refused him your sexual services? Have you? Or have you ever stood up for somebody else that was hurt by his cruel actions? Have you? I know personally people who have been thrown away by him like garbage when they tried to stand up for themselves…
    So your verifications are based on your own good and careful behavior. You “verified” what was safe for you to verify, what you wanted to verify to justify things for yourself. And you didn’t look where it was not pretty and didn’t ask uncomfortable questions – so not to ruin your positive verifications.

    “Rules with iron fist” you say? Did you ever think WHY anyone should rule your SPIRITUAL LIFE with an iron fist? Did you join some kind of prison?

    What are you trying to achieve, after all? To copy your Teacher’s act like a copy cat, or – to Know Thyself? If it is Thyself that you’re trying to know, then, dear friend – look within thyself. It must be there somewhere in you, not over there next to Robert.
    By the way, verifications are only good and alive in this very moment, now. It’s like re-connecting to Truth, and it can only happen Now. Yesterday’s verifications are trash. I don’t even like to use this word – verifications. It’s like “canned truth”. There is no such thing. Better to call them “memories”.

    I wish you freedom and clarity, Fat Boy. With all my heart, really.


  388. Fat Boy,
    You seem to have overlooked the point I made in a previous post, so I’ll say it again: How do you justify the fact that Robert uses donation money to pay for the trinkets and clothes, cars, trips, etc. that he uses to reward his boys for their sexual services?

    You speak of the subjectivity of morality. I don’t believe there is a single culture in the world whose morality would approve of a religious / spiritual leader using the hard-earned donations of his/her followers to reward someone for gratifying him/her sexually. Doesn’t that raise any ‘red flags’ for you?

    You also stated that Robert doesn’t inner consider. Did it ever occur to you that what is occuring is actually a total absence of external considering?

    Please respond to this, otherwise I will assume that you can’t formulate a coherent argument to justify such behavior.


  389. I am glad to see, more and more, bloggers, and especially people like Ames Gilbert (who, like me, finds no need to hide behind a blog-name) attempting REAL COMMUNICATION to get to the ‘root of the problem’ (it works both ways – it solves the problems of understanding both for those who listen to it and for the writer, who puts it ‘outside him/herself’ to see it in objective light.) NEGATIVITY, of which the system speaks, causes confusion, and therefore, any written attempts to be rid of that negativity. It must first be absorbed and transformed by the INDIVIDUAL ASPIRANT to a level where they can view themselves inwardly and the negative cause outwardly, OBJECTIVELY. There is a reason for why I could not be a ‘champion for the cause’, that all those of a true heart are attempting now, for some time after I was ‘ejected’ from the FOF (I now see the episode as a gigantic STOP exercise in my personal evolution). And the above explanation about transforming the negativity was the problem that needed to be dealt with. To all those still having problems with their intellectual ‘modus operandi’, I would quote from Rodney Collin – “If you cannot make what you write or say to others simple it is because you have not understood it yourself in the first place”

    “And I say, nourish a great intellect – if I have said otherwise I rescind it” (WW). Yours………………….. Nigel.


  390. I was going to say something to a few people, giving thanks and all, but I must do this first.

    I went off the blog for a short while and found when I came back that you people are far down the highway.

    Vera-Mente said she was going off-list, I guess that means off blog. I ain’t doing that again. At least not for as long as I did. Which seemed to me less than a day. This blog is flying.
    Ames Gilbert said he was going to shut up for a couple of days.
    Well, Ames keep reading.

    What stopped me from going to bed is the story about a hair-dresser named Richard F. I’m thinking how many Richard F’s hairdressers could there be?

    Anyway, I’ve had too many beers in the last couple of days, and I hope OH, FOF, San Francisco havent been vaporized by the time I arise in the morning.


  391. on July 26, 2007 at 4:23 am Medicine Man

    To all who are interested in HEALING
    this blog and the whole situation,
    please, READ CAREFULLY!

    THE TIME HAS COME.

    THE TIME TO HEAL.

    OURSELVES AND OUR REFLECTIONS.

    The only way to improve things
    is to recognize that what we
    see outside of ourselves,
    is a reflection of the inside of ourselves,
    and

    to take Full Responsibility for it!

    Full responsibility means that we
    relate to things outside
    as if we created them!!!

    To take full responsibility for things
    is to introduce a Healing Process
    through Love, Kindness and Presence.

    Hate will never be conquered by more hate,
    only by Love.

    What you see outside of yourself
    is what you have created and only you
    can change it by the process of Healing
    through Love and Forgiveness.

    It is no use to argue.

    Many have tried and did not succeed.

    It is no use to explain, convince or force anything.

    We only have to Love
    and send it to all the people
    on this blog, and things will start changing.

    Maybe it is a new method for you,
    maybe you think it is some kind
    of “new age” or “B-influence” stuff,
    but if you think about it, you will see
    that this approach is much more
    efficient then anything else tried here before.

    So, here are the instructions.

    1. Deeply inside yourself, understand that
    you are the Creator of the world around you,
    and what you see on this blog is your responsibility.
    You created it, and now you have to Heal
    that part of you that created it.

    2. Start sending Love and ask for
    Forgiveness for what you have done.

    Say, “I Love You”, and send love to this blog,
    any particular people on this blog,
    FOF, Robert Burton, Isis, etc.

    Say, “Please, Forgive me”, and send love to this blog,
    any particular people on this blog,
    FOF, Robert Burton, Isis, etc.

    3.Keep doing it throughout your day,
    as many times as you can.
    Do it while eating, taking shower, driving, writing…

    4. If you write on this blog,
    write only the words of Healing Energy.
    If someone is attacking you,
    write “I Love You” or “Please, Forgive me”.

    5. The aim is to do this for a month,
    or at least as long as it takes for
    the Healing Process.

    The power of this method is really Incredible!!!

    So, Expect Miracles.


  392. Bruce wrote in #344:

    “He’s a tasteless old gay man with too much time and other people’s money on his hands, surrounded by his “workers ants” to move his spiritually bloated self from one side of the nest to the other.”

    Wow Bruce, that’s very poetic! Hits that disgusting piece of faux esoteric rhino poo right on the head.


  393. Dear That Girl:

    My heart truly goes out to you. I wept when I read your post. I pray you and your husband find peace with your past. May you empower and inspire other wives to share their stories! I wonder now what the cameo signified…did you have one, too?

    I thank God I met my wife outside the Fellowship of Friends and spared her the suffering you felt and witnessed in your husband. Robert Burton knew I was wavering as our sexual relationship carried on; I would spit his semen in the scallop shell pedestal sink after I serviced him…the sink that was set at just the right height so I could also wash his fecal matter off of my penis after enabling him to feel like a ‘goddess’ from the orgasm I would give him from anal sex. As I disclosed in an earlier post, I sensed there was some maneuvering going on in the wings to arrange a relationship for me with an older, seasoned female student in order for Robert Burton to maintain sexual access to me. Had I not listened to my conscience at the time I left 22 years ago, that extra suffering your husband endured involving you in this play of crime would have been mine.

    I sincerely apologize to you and all the wives in your position that I was unequipped and unable to make a stand to stop him. I witnessed others before me attempt and fail. At the time my priority was to excrete myself from the life sucking matrix of the Fellowship of Friends in order to survive without my soul imploding and live to fight another day.

    That day has arrived, God willing.


  394. Dear Ames (and all others who want to open up further channels of communication to ‘bring down the walls of Jericho’)

    I have tried asking E S who ‘runs’ the site for which we write to see whether there is a way in which emails can be sent with attachments to those who want them. I have letters, articles and personal poems in ‘Word Document’ mode, whuich would be lengthy to write over again.

    Any way, my email address is, at present – nhpriceuk2000@yahoo.co.uk and will soon be changing over to aprhys@nigelprice.net due to the need to eliminate spam requests for money, where people are downright lying about circumstances and, especially, a ‘phishing’ site pretending to be ebay and asking me to re-register my bank-details (my God it’s deja vu, all over again, to use a popular English soccer joke). Believe me, my solar aspect has ‘grown up’ by ‘street-wise education’ as some of my tradesmen friends call it and is in the correct physiological position of the ruling gland – the sun is pure fission/fusion – self-contained nuclear energy. If you listen to Holst ‘The Planets’, you will discover that Saturn is the ‘bringer of old age’ (oh dear Burton!) – next phase DEATH and who knows what beyond?

    I hope that Ames will like this ‘wake-up’ call from his recent respite:-

    The English love their country with a love
    Steady and simple, wordless, dignified;
    I think it sets their patriotism above
    All others. We Americans have pride –
    We GLORY in our country’s SHORT ROMANCE.
    WE BOAST OF IT AND LOVE IT. Frenchmen when
    The ultimate menace comes, will die for France
    Logically as they have lived. But Englishmen
    Will serve day after day, obey the law,
    AND DO DULL TASKS THAT MAKE A NATION STRONG.
    Once I remember in London how I saw
    Pale shabby people standing in a long
    Line in the twilight in the misty rain
    To pay their tax. I THEN SAW ENGLAND PLAIN.

    From “The White Cliffs” by Alice Duer Miller (an American WWII poet).

    Take a quiet joy (not Pride) in your ethnicity, and communicate with/contribute to the world………. Nigel.


  395. Fat Boy, #357:

    There are so many blatant contradictions in your post (Robert loves us but he rules with an iron fist — don’t you see how utterly incompatible these statements are?), that I was going to attempt to deconstruct it, but it’s too big a job at this time of night. Also, I remember very well being in the same state of mind that currently possesses you, and I know for a fact that anyone trying to convince me I wasn’t seeing things accurately only strengthened my resolve to keep seeing the same way. I think everyone should just back off from this character, because trying to convince him against his will is only going to delay his healing process, because it’s putting him the position of having to defend himself, which only hardens, calcifies the illusions.

    This is also my position on taking down the Fellowship of Friends. I would love to see it collapse under the weight of its own corruption, with a huge kick from us, but I don’t think it would serve the blindly faithful well. They would emerge like those blind moles that live all their lives in the dark, their eyes having atrophied from lack of clear, bright light. And if they sensed the light on their sealed-shut eyelids they would squeeze them tighter as they groped about the smoking ruins of their deepest desires. And unless they decided for themselves to start opening those eyes a little, they would simply internalize the FOF and stay “in” the rest of their lives, even long after there was no “there there” to be in.

    Personally, I think information has the power, as was stated earlier. Every story and shred of truth should be put out here on the blog — everybody tell their story and tell it again for the newcomers. This information is for the wavering, the uncertain — these are the people that can be helped, because they are starting to want to help themselves.

    As for the true believers, “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.” (The blog is water, duh.)

    Innernaut signing out


  396. on July 26, 2007 at 5:39 am Living the Questions

    To Whale Rider, Post 339:
    I am flabbergasted by your response to my post #309. I have to agree with Kathleen W. that it just doesn’t sound like your usual posts, but apparently I hit on very sensitive nerve, and Laughing Love in post 381 may have it right -that your charged response may be related to the sheer anger involved in the sexual issues. One good aspect of being on the receiving end of your post is that it has given me good dose of how it feels to be a current member who posts here and has the fortune to get blasted. I can’t say that it is all that pleasant and frankly, I wouldn’t blame them if they just said to hell with it and never posted again.
    What’s up with all the references to Allah and statements like: “To wield Saifullah, the honorable sword of Allah, you must be brave and fight only for truth, not for personal gain”? That sounds to me like what one might hear from a Taliban member just before they pull the cord on their vest bomb and blow up hundreds of Iraqis out celebrating their soccer victory over North Korea. I really don’t get where you are coming from -please enlighten me.
    You don’t have to convince me that Robert Burton has caused you and other men pain; I am well aware of the situation. That is one of the reasons I finally left the FoF in 1996.
    If you want to file a lawsuit against the FoF or call in the IRS or whatever it takes to end the FoF, then that is your choice. Maybe re-read my post when you are in a calmer mood, as I don’t think it contained anything that condoned RB’s behavior or the complacency of the FoF members.
    To be honest, I am pissed off right now, and it is way past my bedtime.
    Good night Whale Rider, and sweet dreams.
    -Nancy G


  397. on July 26, 2007 at 6:33 am Purchasing awakening

    A lovely piece of Scared Teaching for your education:

    WOMAN WITH HORN

    “He who controls the stomach diminishes the passions.” [The Philokalia, Evagrios the Solitary]
    He who controls the lower self, which is located in the intestines, diminishes the ten thousand ‘I’s. In Jonah 2:2, it is written, “Out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.” A rock relief found in France, dating to 22,000 BP, depicts a pregnant woman with a horn. It refers not to child-bearing, but to fertility of sequences, like the figures of the laughing Buddha. Her two breasts represent short Be and long BE, while her hand covers the lower self. It means that the sequence is controlling the lower self. She holds a ram’s horn with twelve divisions, representing the four wordless breaths, lasting three seconds each.


  398. 390: I do not care if Robert burns the donation money; OK. Read the fourth way if you want to understand me more. But as I said in other posts he puts a majority of the money back into the school. And, guess what, he gets a huge salary for himself, and legal my friend. And the money he raises at teaching event in my view is his money as far as I am concerned, as well as donation money, but the fact is most of the donation money goes torward the infrastucture of FOF.

    And David, good point about external consideration, I will give that one to you; Robert may lack some EC in this area, but for sure has has it most other areas.

    396: I don’t really think it is a contractiction but of course it is easy to twist it that way. Robert has a role of Teaher, to promote the School, and I think he fills it well, except the sex par confuses a lot of people. I feel Roberts love torward his students whether sex is involved or not. Period. But my other point is he is that he wants to keep the standards of the school high, with exercises, suggestions – not to brainwash but to provide an environment that will help foster Self – remembering. No one has to agree with me, and you can all cry that I am buffering but after 20 years this is how I see it. Yes, there have been tests and difficult questions for me, but in the end it is my Self, not the influence of Robert, the School that convinces me that I am in the right place for evolution. Call me crazy, deluded, whatever – this is just rude.

    I am going to end my contribution to this blog with this last post. Not because some say I am cracking, for if just a handful of people would back off then it would be a much better blog and I would stay, but the insults and rudeness is supported and no one makes any efforts to curb this. Also I feel myself getting drawn in to intense identification that I have to always justify and defend. This takes energy, and really I want to enjoy my evenings rather focusing on the negative things on this blog (I don’t mean to diminish any of the true stories from some of the sincere writers).

    It is not that I am bailing out, I believe some stories and feel others are inflated. My understanding is not better but different. If you are trully spirtual people on this blog, which I think you must be, because you had joined the FOF and had maganetic centers and have B influence in your lives, then try to transform the past (maybe the blog is helping) but if you keep focusing on the negativities of the FOF, then it will make it take longer for your group to to grow into something with a higher aim. I am sure most of you are all good people, just like most of the fellowship members. I really mean well and hope you find your peace. Respectifully do not bother responding for I will not read it.


  399. It’s late and I cannot sleep… ironic.

    I know you’re reading this ‘Fat Boy’, so ‘hello’… I want to thank you for your company; you’ll never be the same, no matter how you spin it, once you’ve blogged, you can never go back.

    Reading your ‘final post’ somehow led me to go backwards to the beginning of the blog, prior to the Shiek congratulating people on 23 posts so far…LOL… now 7000+ posts later here we are, thanking and congratulating still…

    I find it sorta amazingly ‘odd’ that (at first I thought the candidate would be ‘Alexis’) it was someone like you that pretty much started the blog debate and here you are again, sorta…

    Here is that post ~

    # John Says:
    February 1st, 2007 at 10:02 pm

    Please everyone. Let’s have a sense of proportion.

    I am a current member of the Fellowship. While I now question my participation and many of the decisions I have made over the years of my membership, I have to admit that I never gave away a fortune, renounced my parents, or sold my children to the slave-traders.

    I, too, have seen some of the extreme and fanatic behavior discussed above, but by framing the discussion around these extremes, we have driven current members from the board. That’s a shame.

    In the last few years, I have watched as the idea of “angles of thought” has disappeared — that is, the idea that we all have a point of view that, while subjective, contributes to the whole. What has replaced it increasingly is an emphasis on conformity, on the “right” opinion issued from above. Nonconformity in thoughts or behavior can be reported on, sometimes with consequences.

    That has driven many substantive discussions underground, unfortunately. I was hoping this might be a place where we might share our opinions in a safe, anonymous way, rather than a place to vent or issue position statements expressing opinions that were cast in cement long ago.
    __________________

    I wanted you to see this; just a possible ‘shock’ (it was for me) to have found someone whose basically speaking with ‘your’ words too, (the exactitudes are a bit spooky really),

    Innernaut was/is/has touched on a mysterious ‘fact’, he said ~

    “I remember very well being in the same state of mind that currently possesses you…”

    that placed next to John’s quote, it’s difficult to find you in your posts when you’re speaking for the Fellowship of Friends, instead of yourself;

    (personally I have found your having been “possessed” by the subject of being a Fellowship of Friends advocate equally, if not more, aggressive towards your essential self-hood than anything we’ve given you)

    yet, this is ‘true’ to the form, I have deep compassion and understanding for you: we’ve all pretty much ‘been there, done that’ one way or the other (sometimes both) … although, admittedly, not ‘been you, done that like you’;

    so there’s no reason ‘truly’ for you to leave the Fellowship of Friends, save, your reasons, these are arriving slowly, I can promise you that…

    For the sake of YOU I must share this vision (my vision, not ‘the view’) of your participation here~

    Like the Fellowship of Friends, you have ‘thanked by keying us from the lower centers’ (meaning resisted) the outsiders ‘in here’ plenty for their criticisms and attempts to bump you a little off naiveté’s treadmill;

    (One might wonder what ‘thanks’ Robert Burton have given to Yuba County California for being the place C-Influence has given him to be in householder with? Tax fraud, evasion of building permits, illegal visas, illegal weddings, illegal wages, illegal church status, illegal sexual conduct with a minor, illegal entrapment of followers, illegal housing, illegal renovations… All curiously spun to sound as if ‘not being formatory’ with householder is the will of the god’s.)

    yet, you’ve commented very little concerning the real being, from souls like Janna, that have shared with you and given your being to forever consider as both an impression and a possible item to integrate into your inner dictionary. Not all that we have offered you has been diabolical, actually I would rate the unnecessary talk and necessary about 20% / 80%… though your ‘struggling self’ seems to spin it differently… so be it (for the now-you).

    Like Howard Carter and so many Fellowship of Friends blog-gazers, you step away when the crystal becomes clearer and clearer, then sit back down when things get more confusing, mysterious and ambiguous;

    I know well this addiction, the false personality in me used to feed carnivorously on chaos theories and the feature feeding ambiance of ambiguity, expert of opposite I’s it was and truly believed it to be what ‘I’ would have forever;

    it’s amazing what one can become when the facility for belief is utterly transformed into simple seeing.

    Truly Fat Boy, if it would be real you and me-ness, I’d rather watch rocks get smaller, being tossed about at the end of a fabulous waterfall and beginning of a lagoon, than write to you on this blog… Sounds like fascination doesn’t it? Yet, it’s not; true eye contact can never be written about or it’s probabilities predicted.

    I wish you well in this one and only Now; remember, there are not many moments, there’s only one; and the person that says “I don’t remember myself enough” is not the same person who thinks it does, nor the person who does.

    May real love stay by your conscience forever.
    _______________________________________________

    l.t.y.a.


  400. Elena,

    Thank you for your reply. Either you may have misunderstood my message (# 323) or I may have misunderstood yours (#352), for I do not feel I deserve in this case the accusation of judgmentalism. Discernment is what I’m after, not judgmentalism, in any case. I said I thought alchemy of secondary, not fundamental concern! I insisted attention to the outside at the expense of the inside was worthless. I even quoted Luke with the cup and platter – come on!

    The example I gave may have been extreme, it was only meant to illustrate how desolate the world would become if none of us would pay any attention any more to our surroundings.
    Of course one should try to transform one’s attitudes wherever one finds oneself – but is this the same as ‘Wishing’ to live in a mudpool?
    I grew up myself in a very poor country; witnessed how some people didn’t give a damn about cleaning themselves and their houses; while others, many others, tried their best to maintain a dignified appearance – a sign of self-respect – amidst a squalid dictatorial regime. Nowadays I live in a rich country and witness a large part of the youth (happily not all) not minding clothes, manners, neighbors, etc.etc. They have all the means but have never heard of self-respect (oh, yeah, it’s been replaced by postmodern psychobabble with some ridiculous notion of self-esteem). Ekh, now it looks I’m actually getting judgmental here, and forgetting how far from perfect I am myself. :)

    But this is all not v important…

    I regret that you have missed the 1 million dollar question at the end of that message, that was what I wished to hear your answering (and still do): what are your methods for getting higher states, have you ever had experiences of higher centres, or real I, and if so, how did you obtain them?


  401. Good bye then Fat “buggered up the ass and liking it ” boy

    “Now, because I am a man, I will rhetorically ask some of the men if your single or when you were young and chasing girls, did you want to get layed, of course! So you buy a women flowers give her gifts, ect. Yes maybe it is love sometimes and it is emotional but your objective is to get layed, at least for me, and I think I am pretty normal.”

    If what you call normal is to be superficial and to be explotive and manipulative then you are normal and no wonder you did not find Robert offensive it was all you knew. I was not particularly socially adapt but I never had to lie to woman to have sex. It was not an acceptable option. My approach was based on logic it was that if you treated woman with respect and as friends that they would want to be with you and sex is a normal healthy functio

    “And did you maybe put some pressure on the women to get some pussy, maybe make a few promises? Probably, and that is OK, ”

    No, its not OK, did you get them drunk and rape them also, ignoring them if they said no, justifying the rape to yourself? Saying that is normal too?”

    “so why can’t Robert do this, he is a man, (yea, I know I am going to a bunch flack that he thinks he is God); but I will just leave this for the moment. This whole blog is not about the FOF, it is about Robert’s sexuality and possible abuses of power; this is what it boils down to.’

    No the blog is about the Fellowship it is Robert who has made it about his abuse of sex. rape is not sex it is a form of abuse, it is dominance. Robert feeds off both the physical energy of his male students and their psychic energies. He dominates straight men into submitting to his will.

    “OK, that is it for tonight if you want more my experiences then follow Aimes que; but if you tear me apart then I’m gone and there wil be no hope of “deprogramming me” 284.
    .
    By By dear sweet fat boy we’ll miss you goodness, now remember externaly consider your teacher.


  402. My2Bits ~
    Well good by again. Your little tale has as many dramatic endings as an old time Saturday matinée with the Hero always coming back next Saturday.
    Will expressing your anger help, yes

    Is it part of healing, yes, it is a discharge of the excrement of an internal process. It is an indication of process occuring.
    From Rodney Collin
    “The Theory of Celestial Influence”
    Chapter XII THE SIX PROCESSES IN MAN
    III ELIMINATION, AND THE ROLE OF ORGANIC COMPOUNDS
    page 202

    Simultaneously with the process of digestion and transformation of foods, a process of destruction and elimination is proceeding in the body. This process works in the order: life, form, matter. It is, as we saw earlier, the process in which the life force breaks form down again into inert matter…..
    What is interesting here, however, is to see how the two processes of digestion and elimination are indissolubly locked at every stage, and that the same active element acts in both, but in a different place, a different role. Thus:
    See diagram on page 203
    Page 204
    “While further still, reaching the level of brain-activity, we find mental excretion represented by ‘imagination’, that is, a continuous production of waste images, the byproduct
    of past perceptions, which flow through and out of the brain in a meaningless and unbroken stream. Just as eating is intermittent, so is the excretion of faeces: but since the inflow of perceptions is continuous, so also is this off-scouring of imagination continuous. When the direct impact of the outside world is quietened by sleep, it even becomes visible to us as dreaming. In fact, dreaming goes on night and day, without a break, as anyone who has acquired the power of arresting the more active thinking process of the mind for a few moments, can readily establish.”……………………
    page 205
    Finally, in connection with the sexual and emotional function, we are reminded, not so much of physiological excretions, as of the indefinable communication of pathos, anguish or joy,…………………………………………………..
    But in general we can say that what is ‘given off’ as waste’, that is, what is passed out into the world, must be proportional to what is refined within. A man can only give out the by-product of what he has digested, refined and understood -but this he must do.
    For the process of destruction, working as described, is an entirely natural and necessary one, which results in the successful elimination of inert and unassimilated matters, and thus maintains the body in vitality and health. Further, what applies to the whole body also applies to every separate function, from highest to lowest. Each function must be rid of its waste matters if it is to work to its full capacity, and the penalty for not doing so belongs to the next process, disease.


  403. on July 26, 2007 at 11:49 am Kid Shelleen

    Fat Boy wrote:

    “Also I feel myself getting drawn in to intense identification that I have to always justify and defend. This takes energy, and really I want to enjoy my evenings rather focusing on the negative things on this blog (I don’t mean to diminish any of the true stories from some of the sincere writers).”

    It’s like Pembleton said to Bayliss:

    “Virtue isn’t virtue unless it slams up against vice. So consequently, your virtue’s not real virtue. Until it’s been tested… tempted.”

    Construe this any way you want.


  404. My beloved Sheik, I’ve been trying to post a little video about three times but can’t do. This is just a try to see if I can come through without attachments. any idea what might be wrong?


  405. No commentary, just try and read through it and consider the implications.

    adapted from the big book of Alcoholics Anynomous.
    Chapter 5
    How It Works

    Rarely has a person failed who has thoroughly followed this path. Those who do not experience a spiritual awakening and acceptance of themselves and reality are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple process, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. They no longer believe their own conscience and have given up on self remembering . There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to just be that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty with them selves. Their chances are less than average.

    There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do heal and awaken to their true self if they have the capacity to be honest with themselves.

    Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now. If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it — then you are ready to take certain steps.

    At some of these we balked. thought we could find an easier, softer way. But we could not. With all the earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start. Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.

    Remember that we deal with sleep and false personality, cunning, baffling, powerful! Without help it is too much for us. But there is a higher power of our own choice which has all power. That is available in any moment we remember our right relationship to self remembering. May you experience this now!

    Half measures availe nothing.This is the turning point. We followed our conscience and had faith in self remembering and our own verifications with complete abandon.

    Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of continued spiritual development:

    1. We admitted we were powerless over Robert Burton and the Fellowship of Friends, that our lives had become unmanageable.

    2. Came to believe that our own conscience and a sense of a Higher Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

    3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to a Higher power as we understood it through our own conscience and have faith in self remembering and our own verifications.


  406. 397. Living the questions.
    Perhaps it would work better to live the answers!
    Also why restrict Whalerider to a western christian mode of expression? Islam means to surrender to God to let him take the reins of your chariot and the real Jihad is an internal one primarily.
    I have considered at length how anyone could bring themselves to put on a suicide vest, as it seems such an unbelievable thing to do.
    But when faced with a massively overwhelming army who will stoop to the dirtiest tricks in a pre-emtive manner besides having far superior weaponry including star wars microwave technology and vibrational devices which can tear one apart from the inside, plus a media power which can convince the entire world that whatever they do is noble and whatever you do is inhuman, I begin to understand them.
    This applies directly to the Fellowship of Friends and their leader.
    ————————————————————————–
    Whalerider .
    Thanks again for your candidness, it seems that the only way to really touch some of the rest of the people who despite having left are kind of wrapped in cotton wool, is to tell it like it is in all its graphic detail.
    Even more so for the fence sitters.
    It might even shock the octave straight!
    ————————————————————————–
    Bruce & Uno
    It seems that all of the aforesaid reasons are valid, the big conquest thing with extra points for seducing straight guys yes the kudos, a huge aspect.
    Lying to them that you dont like gays re-inforces your chances as most straight guys while not necessarily homo phobic, if coerced into sex with a man would maybe prefer it to be with a man who is not having sex with gay men.
    I know its twisted but it re-inforces the idea that this is not a gay experience but rather a non gay man trying to teach me something through sex! how stupid can one get.
    The sadistic side of it is definitely a big part of it, its an arena where the “nice guy teacher” can manifest some repressed violent tendencies by popping their cherries, which as you say Uno, Im sure he thoroughly enjoys.
    I also think that sticking mainly to straight guys with only little side octaves of the occasional irresistably pretty gay ones and controlling the environment of the straight ones or researching it deeply, has the added benefit of risk minimisation.
    Thats maybe one of the reasons why he would get so pissed of and jealous in the past when they were “unfaithfull” to him, as it raised the chances of disease exponentially.
    Theres a passage in one of Shakespeares plays, perhaps someone knows where? He has a character state something along the lines of, Procure for me that with which I can enjoy myself without risk.
    Syphilis was rife at the time people wore little black stars or hearts made up on their faces to hide the sores. The only safe sex was with virgins, but it could quickly become a costly business, ( not everyone has a school to prey on).
    Totally
    FUBAR.
    ltya Cy.
    I saw this quote in a link I posted a while back.
    ” Disobedience to tyrrany,
    is obedience to our divine creator.”


  407. Reflections on blog and fof:

    First, Innernaut # 396, I completely agree with you. So, speaking for those on the fence:

    There seem to be 4 issues to determine whether it’s worth it to stay in the fof or get out:

    1. CONSCIENCE. Is there something going wrong in the fof? Is it bad enough for you to leave the organization, even if you are not affected directly? Are students being manipulated, financially, sexually, socially, professionally or otherwise? That the answer to these questions should be yes, appears from the many messages attesting to the things going wrong in the fof: e.g. Whale rider, dick moron, and so many others, about r.e.b.’s sexual manoeuvres, from Purchasing awakening about the financial manipulation, from Peter and others about the psychologico-financial manipulation, from others about the teaching of fear (only real school, released by C inf, etc.), sin (king of clubs demonizing), future damnation (many lives etc.), from Clara Elena about the widespread use of antidepressants, from yet others about the manipulation of family life and choices, impact on children, etc. etc.

    2. WORK/Teaching/Evolution. How do you feel about the worth of the Teaching? Have you verified it? Does it work for you? Do you see progress? Considering the revelations in these pages about replacing living thoughts and observations at meetings with quotes, about the manipulations of quotes to suit the ‘sequence of the day’, etc. is this not evoking in you at least a modest beginning of that rara avis called ‘irrepressible inner laughter’? Trying to fit prehistory into the sequence looks more like the teaching of Procust, not of the fourth way. And by the way, did you not have to cringe at some of the fanaticism and contempt dripping from many of the current fofers’ reactions?

    Many have written in these pages about their individual development work continuing after leaving the fof: the spirit of the search for truth does not disappear, it rather gets new wings.

    Perhaps the most important question here is: If r.e.b. and the senior-fofers are what you are likely to become in the near future, as a product of the fof, is it what you have wished for yourself as a conscious being? Do you want to look, act, talk, think, behave like them? Do you see this as evolution?

    3. SOCIAL. If you are afraid of losing your friends, social network: The Greater Fellowship is the short answer to this question. Generally speaking, you may find out upon leaving that there are far more people seriously interested in personal growth and/or the fourth way outside of the fof than there are inside, and without the fanaticism and identification and censorship that have become typical of the fof!! And I don’t mean only the many thousands that have already left the sinking fof ship. Have you checked lately the internet for (fourth way) groups? there are so many… Have you googled Gurdjieff et co. lately? there are millions of pages dedicated to them on the net… Is it not vanity to think you are one of the ‘chosen few’?

    4. FINANCIAL/Professional. This is probably an issue for those working on salary for the fof. Arthur, Peter and others have adressed this issue and ofered advice and even help with getting a job in the real world.

    I would have liked to be able to list under each heading all those who adressed it on this blog, but it is rather a daunting task at the moment. Perhaps some may feel it useful to take it up, or perhaps people just have to do their own reading, counting and mentating.

    For me it is so obvious now that being in an organization is a necessary but limited step in everyone’s progress towards individuality!! So plain obvious… Did O not leave G? Did G not encourage so many of his pupils to leave, did he not change the outer form of the teaching so many times to prevent people from identifying with that, including closing the Institute? Did O not send his best friend Nicoll away to teach the system on his own? Did O not say in the end that he abandoned the system, and that it was up to every individual to reconstruct it for him/herself from the beginning? Is there not “a time to get in and a time to get out”?

    Nancy G (# 309), you raise an important point (actually two). For its sake, I’ll say here that the answers above are mine own, but I do think the questions are legitimate for everybody.

    Good luck to all!


  408. on July 26, 2007 at 12:29 pm for the Best_1

    #298 Fat Boy
    “Now, because I am a man, I will retorically ask some of the men if your single or when you were young and chasing girls, did you want to get layed, of course! So you buy a women flowers give her gifts, ect. Yes maybe it is love sometimes and it is emotional but your objective is to get layed, at least for me, and I think I am pretty normal. And did you maybe put some pressure on the women to get some pussy, maybe make a few promises? Probably, and that is OK.”

    Is that you who where asking others not to be vulgar?

    #372 Fat Boy
    “I know when your young and naive and your Teacher hits on you it is hard to resist…..for me too. With that being said, one can just say no, many have and they are doing fine today in the FOF.

    Dear Fat Boy,
    How do you know?
    My first husband said “yes” to Robert.
    My second husband said “no” and I can tell you that sometimes you get tired to play to hide and seek for years with your teacher. That is not the game we were supposed to come for.

    Aline


  409. on July 26, 2007 at 2:32 pm Bass Ackwards

    Alice E [#407]

    Nice post, thanks for that. I always appreciate the voice of reason amidst this cafeteria food fight. Though I must say, there are some things that need to be said here – and cannot be said politely – because otherwise they just won’t be heard.

    —————————————————————————-
    Rhino Neal [#341]

    Thanks for the comments. Points well taken. I feel it is different this time, but I don’t know yet. Of course, Nisargadatta needs to be read and digested individually, but exposing students to him, showing them what the Sufis, Rumi and Walt really were really talking about is showing them the tip of their own iceberg. An exciting proposition. Not to be dissected intellectually, but probed lovingly through understanding seems at least a possibility.

    Also, I’m not in imagination about leaving. Whale Rider’s story cut me to the marrow, for a number of reasons. There is no going back but also there are a number of personal householder areas that I’d like to resolve first, if possible. Time is a factor, yet not to be wasted.

    That’s all for the moment,
    Cheers,
    Bass


  410. on July 26, 2007 at 2:51 pm Living the Questions

    To Whale Rider, Post #394.
    My heart goes out to you. We were all betrayed by Robert to some extent, but clearly some far more than others. God and Godess bless you in your journey of purging and healing.

    -Nancy G


  411. Dear Alice,

    I am so sorry if I wrote in a way that made you understand that I was correcting you or telling you to do something different or if I did not acknowledge clearly and deeply enough that I walked up the road with you in your deep understanding of alchemy. I am very connected with what you said. It was not my intention at all and I thank you for correcting me for not being clear. I was actually trying to address precisely your million dollar question and I am sorry if my answer is not your answer but that is alright too since all of our answers work as long as they’ve ripened lawfully.

    The idea of judgement in relation to your question, (and it had nothing to do with you personally) to me, is that the practice of non judgement, carried far enough, leads precisely to the acknowledgement of a situation with the understanding that it is what it is because it could not be better, because those involved do not have the being to make it better. Once that is acknowledged the next question is, what is the next step, where is a solution, what is needed.

    In my practice, judgement from false personality or as a negative emotion is a dead end, basically, all negative emotions are my own beings inability to transform a situation.

    What is important I think for us, recent fellowship fellows, is to realize that saying no to abuse and exploitation is not a negative emotion but an affirmation of our selves, because we were indoctrinated to not act against those with the idea that it was our own weakness that could not transform them. Deeply indoctrinated unfortunately and mostly by my husband Girard, who no matter what happened was willing to say that Robert was right and it was our problem if we could not see it and showed us the door if we were not willing to put up with it for it was Robert’s school.

    In the situations you mention in which we find in life, ever so low expressions of our times, what I am trying to share with you is the possibility of looking at those without judgement or closing your self up to them as something so very negative.
    Yes, I too don’t wish to spend time in those circles but prefer to understand them as an expression of our time in which the economic and cultural conditionings have placed people in the lower end of their being. I guess my point is, that it is necessary to consider the whole to accept the most difficult aspects without banning them out of one’s life as something one does not wish to deal with. Dealing with the most negative things is necessary to open the road for transformation.

    Working on one’s self is the same process. My poor and extreme manifestations are there and if I don’t actualize the presence within me that is willing to embrace and forgive myself for them, then a minor negative emotion or a huge explosion of anger will depress me deeply, unless I remember that I am there to hold my self with all my weaknesses, that fortunately, no one else has to put up with them as much as I do and that if I patiently watch them I’ll learn to work with them a great deal better than I was able to, when I buffered them.

    It is the same with social processes. Only it is not I but us who have to transform them and that requires as much being as this blog is proving.

    I am sorry and thank you again. Elena


  412. 409 Bass Ackwards.

    Keep us informed about your experiment, if you would.

    Love to you.

    RN


  413. on July 26, 2007 at 4:11 pm Purchasing awakening

    “And, guess what, he gets a huge salary for himself, and legal my friend.”
    And guess what, he also has arranged for many of his closest devotees to get a huge salary on the books then cash their fake paychecks and give money to Robert to spend. In return for this service FOF pays their personal taxes. And this is very illegal my friend.
    “And the money he raises at teaching event in my view is his money as far as I am concerned”, –
    Firstly it is questionable if the church leader is allowed to earn personal income in such way. Secondly do you think he pays taxes on this? We are talking millions in personal income, my friend.

    “but the fact is most of the donation money goes torward the infrastucture of FOF.” – Oh yes? How do you know that my friend? Do you have any idea how much Robert spends on himself and his harem?
    I bet you that vast majority of the money goes to his personal spending.
    The whole FOF thing is one big financial and tax fraud, my friend. It is a cleverly arranged business designed to build one twisted man’s dream with illegal cheap labor and illegal tax free income.

    IRS will have a field day when they get to investigate it in detail and they will.


  414. “According to the Gospel of John,
    the Pharisees, in an attempt to discredit Jesus,
    brought a woman charged with adultery before him.

    Then they reminded Jesus that adultery was punishable by stoning under Mosaic law and challenged him to judge the woman so that they might then accuse him of disobeying the law.

    Jesus thought for a moment and then replied,

    “He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her.”

    The people crowded around him were so touched by their own consciences that they departed.”

    ————

    So, you all who criticize RB and FOF, had you never “sinned”?
    Are you Saints, or what?

    Many of you are talking about using drugs, many of you are doing this. This is a B-a-a-a-d thing to do in USA, and I believe in UK too.

    Robert, on a contrary, prohibits his students to use any kind of drugs. Even regular cigarettes are not allowed.

    You never stole anything, you never lied. Or did you???

    Like Janna doing “things” in Amsterdam abt 12 years ago.
    What Janna, are you still think you are Saint? Or you just so full of Janna D’Arc shit that you do not remember your personal history?

    And the rest of you?

    Just think for a moment about all illegal, criminal, unconscious, unethical thing you have done in your life,

    and ask yourself: “Would I like to be publicly exposed and punished for this?”


  415. “And did you maybe put some pressure on the women to get some pussy, maybe make a few promises?”

    Fat Boy.

    That is one of the most vulgar statements yet on this blog and then you shoot your nose up in the air and are in and out of the blog so quick.

    GET YOUR WIFE TO POST – LET’S SEE WHAT SHE HAS TO SAY ABOUT YOU AND RB HAVING REGULAR SEX. MEN ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES WHO SUFFER. THIS GETS TO WOMEN’S CORE TOO.


  416. An Early Morning Request ~

    Could someone be kind enough to post Brian S’s story concerning his suicide in total here on the blog… PLEASE.

    From the beginning of the situation till the motel room in Marysville/Yuba City.

    l.t.y.a.


  417. on July 26, 2007 at 4:44 pm Very Concerned

    Re: THAT GIRL and WhaleRider:

    OMG! Holy crap – what kind of a sick group is this? Robert Burton ought to be in jail! I got scared reading your posts. My deepest sympathies are with you.

    How the hell does the fof even have members for crying out loud!?


  418. Elena (#411)

    No need for apologies. Thank you for taking pains to explain again what you meant. Maybe I understand it a little better now. You are right about acceptance and the practice of non judgment.


  419. Dear Nancy:

    I sincerely appreciate your response. I apologize to you if you felt personally attacked. Please forgive me for any unnecessary suffering I may have caused you. My response to your post was not flippant or based on a bad mood; it took many hours to compose.

    If you or anyone reading this blog is unclear about the concept and practice of the transformation of negative emotions, then yes, they should say, “to hell with it and never post again”. May they sleep in peace.

    I felt completely “flabbergasted” and in shock to be having sex with Robert Burton, my supposed teacher. And all I did to you was challenge your thinking.

    Your post asks the warriors among us to step back and consider the consequences of ending the Fellowship of Fiends. Nancy, I speak as one of the consequences of keeping that Fellowship going. I refuse to evaporate or be regarded simply as ‘collateral damage’. You say that you are “aware” of the pain we bear…now you can taste it. Now you can feel it in your dreams as I do. Robert Burton continues to inflict such pain upon his ‘boys’ and husbands of women like you. The dilemma is that the pain is not felt until years later because everyone at the time is so frickin’ anesthetized in a ‘higher state’ and then ashamed to talk about it!

    I was first herded into Robert Burton’s bedroom in the middle of the night after an exhausting 12 hour workday in the hot sun when my king of clubs and will was weakest-under the pretense of doing some ‘cuddling’. I understand only now, years later how numb and disempowered I was from the layers of paralyzing psychological double binds systematically instilled in me by Robert Burton and the ‘form’ of the ‘school’. When I lay down next to him, he put his leg across my groin area in direct contact with my penis. If you are a woman of ‘experience’ shall we say, you know that it doesn’t take too much direct contact to make a man’s penis erect. That’s when I was reassured that I was “with an angel”, and that when I climaxed, he would, “receive me”. That’s when he literally descended and my anguish began. A few drops at a time.

    I repeat. The way is clear: we must fly from evil behavior. What will motivate us to take action to stop him? Horror? Tragedy? Will some poor soul need to choke to death on Robert Burton’s Viagra-enhanced penis before we take action? Will it be a STD inadvertently passed on to someone’s child from the ‘inner circle’? I willingly choose anger. Individuals standing up alone will not make a difference! Donald McD, Thomas E., Samuel S., Troy B., Miles B….. Only collectively will we make a difference. As Unoanimo says, it just takes one toothpick, not an suicide bomber!

    That is the value of this blog. The Fellowship of Friends has survived this long by dividing and conquering its dissenters one at a time because we were so conditioned to SELF remember, thinking only about our self preservation for fear of being booted out. I am in a position now to work on a much larger scale. Elena also speaks from that scale. I do not possess a shred of sentimentality about the Fellowship of Friends or anyone still stuck in its web of lies.

    You have been immersed in ‘other’ symbols. Let me explain: the sword of Allah is the sword of truth. The raw truth cuts through mendacity, apathy, and ignorance. Sometimes it hurts. So does resetting a dislocated shoulder or broken bone. Either way, it hurts. Does not the king of hearts card have a raised sword, too? Is supposed to be all smiles? You must be brave to speak and stand up for truth, without the need for personal gain. I will not stand for any more ‘collateral damage’ from Robert Burton. I am a father. I have a son and daughter, and I want them to be proud of me.

    I deeply thank you for feeling and responding to my feelings. That is the greatest gift we can give each other, to share each other’s pain.


  420. on July 26, 2007 at 5:41 pm Ames Gilbert

    June 12th, 1989

    Dear

    Out of respect and appreciation for our long friendship I write today to inform you of my recent actions.

    In the final days of the month of may I posted a rather provocative letter to Robert asking him to apologize to me for seducing and molesting me as a new student.

    I stated further that I would no longer stand as an accomplice to his crimes by remaining complacent and silent. I have seen too many young men abused by Robert under the banner of love and enlightenment. At the height of Robert’s abuse of me he persuaded me (at Clare Bradford’s house in 1973) to give him a blow job as a necessary step to achieve awakening. During that time he praised me daily for my talents and my great desire to awaken. But all such praise stopped once I refused to enter a bed with him. I thought then that Robert’s love was only as great as my usefulness to him but I ignored the thought.

    It has taken great effort and many years for me to heal myself; to establish the proof within that a man’s worth to himself is greater that his usefulness to others. I don’t know if the Fellowship can heal itself of the same ills, but I do know it needs to. Someday members must face the truth about Robert. He is not all good and wise. Four to five hundred male students have been abused by Robert over the past twenty years. All have been led to believe that they would profit spiritually by succumbing to Robert’s advances. I have verified for myself that self remembering does not hinge on submitting one’s body to the desires of the teacher. I therefore cannot support attitudes and behavior in the Fellowship which justify such acts.

    Robert has been teaching in a teapot rather than in the world, he has confused people with the fear of questioning; the fear of losing the school and the gods if they don’t see things his way. He has taught the opposite of tolerance and compassion. How much growth of the soul can be expected from so closed and restricted an environment? Everything that Robert says, all institutions in the form of the school which lead in the end to satisfying his personal desires must be questioned.

    To survive in the school requires that a student choose either to observe Robert’s corruption and remain silent or to justify it. For those who choose to justify it, all understanding of the system and self remembering must be made to support Robert’s behavior. (Like Joann Keahey telling new students, and old, that Robert’s homosexuality is “One of the school’s greatest blessings”.) For those who remain silent a right understanding can develop but little room has been made in the school for expressing such an understanding. Most conflict between students arises between the differences of those two groups.

    Generally Robert will give his time and attention only to those who provide him with either physical, financial or organizational support. Then those who believe that awakening depends on agreement with the teacher will do all they can to fulfill one or more of the three categories.

    All this is not to say that Robert is without merit. I would not deny that he has taught me great things. It is the aggrandizing of his faults along with his virtues that I object to. Idealistic and troubled young people are quite suggestible and very vulnerable. Robert has taken undue advantage of the young much too frequently while we older students just sat by and watched. In many ways we are as much to blame as he is for the permission off this vice. And certainly it must be clear that the greatness of the school has been reduced in proportion to our allowance of this vice.

    So—in response to all this I stepped out in the open, stated in no uncertain terms what my point of view is and asked for an apology. Robert, with his customary response of calling such actions instinctive, promptly called and asked me to leave the school. And of course he offered me no apology. He did admit, years ago, to molesting me but now as it was then, he felt it was his right to do so.

    I had hoped for an improvement in Robert’s attitude. (In many ways he is very insecure, this is why he is so afraid of a challenge.) But alas, he remains convinced in his own mind that he is the second Christ and I doubt that he is. (C–influence may have set him up with that just like they did with the depression and how many other such things.) Personally I just can’t imagine Jesus asking his students to sleep with him, to erect his penis; to titillate his flesh. What then of his behavior if he is not the Christ?

    My desire to know the mysteries began long before I joined the Fellowship. My work in the school has enhanced that desire and I’ve even managed to raise the level of my consciousness. So I can’t complain on a personal level. Now I will work alone until such time as C-influence decides to give me company. And I don’t mind this, my delight in the present is wholly satisfying and it’s nice to be free of the need for outside approval.

    One last thought—I will not close myself off from friends. Anytime that you wish to see, write or talk to me I will be pleased to hear from you.

    With my deepest regards
    I am, yours sincerely,

    (Thomas Easley)


  421. on July 26, 2007 at 5:44 pm Ames Gilbert

    I looked through the posts to see if Thomas Easley’s “farewell letter” had ever been reproduced, and, as far as I can see, it hasn’t. I resisted editorializing about Thomas Easley’s letter so it would impact readers in a pure form. Any typos are mine; I keyed in the letter from the sheet in front of me. Please note the letter was written in 1989 and the date when Burton first forced sex on him was 1973.

    I remember when he left. He was spoken about in hushed whispers, with plenty of “C–influence has taken away his understanding” and “Those whom the gods wish to destroy…”, and “Food for the moon” angles. I was told that this letter was extremely negative, that even seeking to find a copy was ‘wrong work’, ‘the queen of hearts seeking to gain ascendancy”, and so on. It was shocking, his exit seemed so sudden, I had talked cordially with him a few weeks before on the steps of his little caravan where he worked.
    All he could do was to write this letter and put copies in the mailbox and in people’s caravans. The letter didn’t have much apparent effect, the ripples soon died away, and life and Burton went on… but, for some, some seeds were sown.

    I would like to hear from Whalerider and any others (including you, Fat Boy) the exact words Burton uses to bargain with, verbatim if possible, at the time of the seduction. Thomas referred to “a necessary step to achieve awakening”. I think it would be valuable and instructive to hear the exact words Burton uses to coerce those trusting in his spiritual care into having sex with him. I’d also like to hear about any blackmail to keep silence about these activities.

    Ames


  422. Hey Sheik,

    Where’s that cauldron homey?

    :) See bottom of 334

    Also, are you editing that post I sent in the wee hours of the morning? It’s not up yet… just wondering.


  423. #399 Fat Boy

    Am I the only one that feels this last post from da fat boy was written by a different person than the previous ones?


  424. One of RB’s sarcastic little jokes over the years was calling an “active force” an “active farce. In other words, be silent my beloved students. Be passive. Be compliant. Be submissive. (argh, it’s starting to sound like the sequence.)

    Do nothing. Do not rock the FoF boat. That is much more desirable for your evolution. Do not change anything. You have all that you need. Everything is fine.

    As dickmoron wrote: “Loyalty can be admirable, but also extremely stupid and sometimes criminal. Keep in close contact with your conscience.”


  425. on July 26, 2007 at 6:06 pm Critical Mass

    It’s the stories that make the difference. We can never guarantee complete accuracy, but there’s no smoke without fire.

    One rumor that is doing the rounds is that the property is now in AG’s name. It seems unlikely, but Graeagle (Robert’s old Sierra Nevada apartment) and the Palm Springs apartment are/were in the name of Abe G.


  426. Gay Dominance and the King of Cocks

    Anyone still gladly in the Fellowship of Friends is buffering the fact that they are in a corrupt, delusional and abusive cult. The only thing missing is mass suicide. Burton is not conscious, he’s a devious psychotic. If that’s clear by now it is because you are asleep.


  427. 419

    “It’s the least you can do for your teacher”.

    “Higher Forces wishes you to have this turmoil”

    “I’m a princess in a man’s body”. (of course this one didn’t carry much weight)

    “I’m insatiable. I share this with many of my students” (during the time I was avoiding him).


  428. Lets not for get the ever famous “Tap three times”.


  429. “Gay Dominance and the King of Cocks”

    Anyone still gladly in the Fellowship of Friends is buffering the fact that they are in a corrupt, delusional and abusive cult. The only thing missing is mass suicide. Burton is not conscious, he’s a devious psychotic. If that’s not clear by now it is because you are asleep.


  430. The Fat Boy email string gets closer to the real core issues than, for example, the debates with Siddiq or Howard Carter. Fat Boy is a much more typical, mainstream FOF student of this day and age. He also revealed more about himself than most pro-RB current members have done, and for this I want to personally thank him. Fat Boy has said good bye, and whether he keeps his word or not the experience of interacting with this blog has touched him, probably deeper than he is able to presently understand or appreciate. He has my sincere best wishes.

    Because Fat Boy showed his true colors, I think the quality of the responses was raised as well. That Girl, Bruce, David B, somebody, Another Name, Janna, Innernaut…to name a few, thank you.

    Fat Boy is a true believer in the church of Robert Burton. Most of us were there once ourselves, and many of us are still there today. That’s why we keep coming back to the blog. When we beat up on Fat Boy we are also attacking that part of ourselves that was him once, and I for one would like to avoid doing this if there is any other way to get at the truth and to reconcile my own feelings.

    Okay, so what are Fat Boy’s core beliefs?

    1. That he has received the “pearl of great price” – self remembering – and has verified this gift (“the gift”) to have been the single most life-changing, life-enhancing event that has happened to him, or ever will.

    2. That “the gift” is beyond monetary value, and transcends earthly logic, values and laws, which is why he is impervious to small-scale problems like a little sexual coercion or abuse of power here or there.

    3. That “the gift” is actual: it is happening now…and now…or any moment now, so there is no reason to doubt its reality and worth.

    4. That even if other teachers, schools and systems DO in fact exist that are able to convey “the gift” to their participants, they are rare by definition and hypothetical within the member’s personal experience, so why look elsewhere when the FOF has saved his life and continues to provide all the spiritual nourishment he needs?

    5. That without Robert Burton there would have been no FOF, in which case “the gift” could not have been transmitted to him.

    6. That leaving / losing the FOF may not mean eternal damnation, but if he is honest with himself there is a very good chance that it means losing the ability to make the effort needed to live a spiritual lifestyle, and that he may sink into deep sleep again and become the way he was before receiving “the gift,” or even lose “the gift” entirely.

    7. That Robert Burton gave and continues to give his students “the gift,” makes sacrifices for his students, loves or at least cares about all his students, and the primary proof of this fact is self-evident in the incredible value of “the gift” itself.

    8. That Robert Burton deserves gratitude from his students for bringing them “the gift,” and that since “the gift” is the real thing, RB both deserves and requires trust from his students so that he can continue to enhance their understanding and help them progress on their spiritual path.

    9. That although Robert Burton is a teacher, he is also a human being, and his many foibles are not only forgivable and relatively minor when compared to the magnitude of “the gift,” but also go to show that the rest of us mere mortals have a chance too, in spite of our own sins and weaknesses.

    10. That beyond the seminal experience of verifying “the gift” of self remembering, many viable theories serve as motivating factors for one’s work. These include the possibility of Armageddon and/or other global shocks; the potential of eternal recurrence or lifetimes that directly or indirectly reward or punish one after one’s death; the history of an esoteric knowledge that has been handed down through millenia to the FOF and only to the FOF in its pristine form since the time of the ancient Egyptians or even earlier; and above all, the active support of hidden / higher forces in one’s life: one of the few theories that can actually be verified by those who have eyes to see, and further reason why Robert is owed an unpayable debt of gratitude by his students.

    Okay okay, but Joseph, why did YOU leave then?

    I left, ironically but fundamentally, because I too love “the gift.” I left because Robert Burton no longer teaches the mystery of this moment, but instead focuses on a rigid form of prayer, and on the esoteric myth of the FOF’s role in history and his own legacy as a complete higher man. I left because Robert Burton’s closest followers have come to emanate blind devotion rather than the dialectic and diversity I found when I joined 31 years ago. I left because I love my family and respect myself more than the FOF would otherwise financially or morally allow me to do as a so-called good student. I left because I trust in a higher being’s goodness more than I fear His or Her gravitational moon-food cynicism. I left because Robert Burton IS responsible for the FOF, and his vision of a school riddled with small and large double standards encourages and demands dualistic / formatory thinking, rather than shows the path for escaping it. I left because what’s wrong is wrong, and it’s 10 times more wrong at the hands of those who are responsible for the spiritual, emotional and physical well-being of so many that trust them and love them.

    Do I love Robert Burton, even today? Yes I do, in spite of myself. He is a part of me, as much as an abusive, possibly alcoholic parent is a part of the son who was his or her victim. I can still love him, and I can forgive him for what he has done to me, but I cannot stand by and let it happen to others, to my own brothers and sisters who are being abused and lied to and exploited and (both literally and figuratively) fucked.

    Guess that’s all I have to say for now. Thanks for not killing the messenger if possible. And again, thank YOU, Fat Boy. I know I know you, and we are probably friends.

    Joseph G


  431. WhaleRider, #417:

    What was I thinking? Screw the deluded, blind naked mole-rats. Kick the legs out from under that termite-infested little stool called the Fellowship of Friends. Let the fundamentalists grope around in “life,” rather than let Robert Burton continue groping everything he can get his disgusting, diseased hands on.

    Bruce, #424:

    “I’m insatiable. I share this with many of my students”

    Aren’t conscious beings supposed to be able to control themselves? Like, isn’t that Consciousness 101? How could anyone believe in that freak after hearing something like this? I mean, seriously?


  432. Elena, Joseph G, you have both brought forth a crucial question:
    How to properly reconcile acceptance with conscience?
    (How to say ‘yes-and-no’…)


  433. Hello Joseph G. (427) ~

    You wrote ~

    “When we beat up on Fat Boy we are also attacking that part of ourselves that was him once, and I for one would like to avoid doing this if there is any other way to get at the truth and to reconcile my own feelings.”
    ____________________________

    Hello Joseph,

    There’s a fine line (albeit a bold line), between “beat up on” and the love it takes to attempt to help another get their hand out of a brush shredder…

    I recall on a job once, I had to ‘seemingly’ be very tough to save a worker from a very nasty accident; the means to a beginning is not the same as the means to an end…

    The “beating up” interpretation is from your lower centers; Meher Baba said that The Path is oftentimes “ruthless”, real lose is ruthless; the only ‘thing’ real love compromises is pretended love, the daydreamer in all of us who wishes to stay calm and not consider that within this moment our foreseen and unforeseen ending is embedded without our knowing, this also includes every love we assume is here to stay…

    Our approach to Fat Boy is far more broader than the earth-school; I am sure anyone who has loved Fat Boy for just a few minutes, has felt this other dimension, it is there, it is ironically ‘wordless’ and right now.
    _____________________

    l.t.y.a.


  434. That should be ‘real love is ruthless’.


  435. I really wish that all present students of
    The Fellatio of fiends,
    could experience the totally extreme swing, from sweetly smiling light and positive while trying to convince one to allow him to for example overcome ones feminine dominance and let him take ones dick out.
    To the moment where he realises that its not going to happen, and all of the energy that was previously focused on his momentary aim, suddenly flicks over in an instant into complete reptile.
    Its like his eyes suddenly develop armoured slits and the energy that moments before was all lightness is suddenly transformed into something resembliing an astral porcupine.
    If you have seen the film species I think its called, the female alien in it comes to mind.
    And even then he doesnt give up!
    No, now he changes tack…and the veiled threats begin,
    about how he has gone out on a limb for you
    “we all know which limb”, how if youre not able to help and support him then he wont be able to reciprocate.
    God dammit he tries a huge arsenal barrage after barrage trying from every possible angle with all his knowledge of mechanics, he tries to appeal to your vanity your tramp your wish to awaken and if you stay resolute,
    he can hardly contain his disgust with you.
    Then you can feel like a piece of shit that has somehow materialised in front of him.
    Then you feel the coldness the icyness.
    There is an old saying hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.
    Well one could re write it to …hell hath no fury like a queen in a large male body who is refused sex.

    I really believe that any current student who experienced this transformation from a butterfly into a reptile could not remain a part of the illusion one day longer they might leave all their possesions in their hurry to escape.
    ltya. Cy.


  436. I just read a couple of these posts and some of them are really powerful. I am sure that there were similarly powerful posts previously posted in those 15 parts (I currently don’t have 5 h to go through everything). I think that it would be a very positive step if Sheik or someone could open a new page where only the most meaningful posts from all the previous discussions be placed (such as the comment of THAT GIRL and so on). I am sure that this page would mean a lot more and be more appreciated by outside viewers. This page would also have a stronger effect on readers as it would get right to the point. I really hope someone does decide to do this.

    Best Regards


  437. 429 Alice E.
    Elena, Joseph G, you have both brought forth a crucial question:
    How to properly reconcile acceptance with conscience?
    (How to say ‘yes-and-no’…)

    ———————————————————–

    The term “acceptance” is a huge topic related to everything on this blog, and related to everything in the fof. But there’s a different way to look at the word than the way it is usually presented to us (i.e., to remain passive, compliant, and to submit in silence, etc.).

    Maybe — just maybe — the point where acceptance can really help us is in realizing the need for change. Many of us who stayed in the Fellowship of Friends for several years resisted that need for change with all of our might. The acceptance of that need — and the openness to new ideas — is partly what enabled us to free ourselves.


  438. 429 Alice E.
    Elena, Joseph G, you have both brought forth a crucial question:
    How to properly reconcile acceptance with conscience?
    (How to say ‘yes-and-no’…)

    ———————————————————–

    The term “acceptance” is a huge topic related to everything on this blog, and related to everything in the fof. But there’s a different way to look at the word than the way it is usually presented to us (i.e., to remain passive, compliant, and to submit in silence, etc.).

    Maybe — just maybe — the point where acceptance can really help us is in realizing the need for change. Many of us who stayed in the Fellowship of Friends for several years resisted that need for change with all of our might. The acceptance of that need — and the openness to new ideas — is partly what enabled us to free ourselves.


  439. #427 Joseph G.:

    Thanks for the clear examination of a Fellowship of Friends member’s dilemma.

    As you yourself have been freshly “released by C-influence”, do you now feel (seeing from beyond the gates)

    “That leaving / losing the FOF may not mean eternal damnation, but if he is honest with himself there is a very good chance that it means losing the ability to make the effort needed to live a spiritual lifestyle, and that he may sink into deep sleep again and become the way he was before receiving “the gift,” or even lose “the gift” entirely”?

    After receiving “the gift” (from whatever source it may arrive), can we ever sleep comfortably again? I’m reminded of Walt Whitman’s words:

    “O you singer, solitary, singing by yourself—projecting me;
    O solitary me, listening—nevermore shall I cease perpetuating you;
    Never more shall I escape, never more the reverberations,
    Never more the cries of unsatisfied love be absent from me,
    Never again leave me to be the peaceful child I was before what there, in the night,
    By the sea, under the yellow and sagging moon,
    The messenger there arous’d—the fire, the sweet hell within,
    The unknown want, the destiny of me.”

    Perhaps more than “presence”, the Fellowship of Friends is a test of “conscience” If it has not been smothered altogether, I believe we can emerge from the experience more in touch with that most precious of human gifts.


  440. A post from the early blog; outside ourselves we are not as ‘special’ as the show’s spotlight’s ‘real’ bulb-life would like to imagine it… particularly Robert Burton’s spot light.
    _____________________________________________

    # Devoted Reader Says:
    March 2nd, 2007 at 4:06 am

    Still reading about the downfall of Rajneesh (a.k.a. “Osho”). This, by one of his former disciples, Christopher Calder:

    “It shocks me to find that many Osho disciples do not care about the crimes that were committed and are not bothered by the lies and hypocrisy of their own movement. … The attitude of many Osho sannyasins seems to be that as long as they get their psychic kicks out of a cult that it does not matter who was hurt or how unethical and disgraceful the behavior was. …

    Rajneesh felt that teaching ethics and morality was unnecessary because the increased consciousness of meditation would automatically lead to good behavior. Rajneesh’s own actions and the behavior of his disciples proves that theory to be untrue. There is no direct connection between meditation and ethics and the dangers and limitations of teaching ethics are far outweighed by the destructive anarchy that a lack of teaching creates. Certainly students of meditation should at least be reminded that lying, cheating, stealing, and killing are not acceptable behavior. But Osho taught that you should do as you please and many of his disciples and he himself committed many ethical crimes. This lapse of judgment was largely due to the arrogant and downright fascist attitude that one can become so high and mighty that one is beyond the need for something as old fashioned as polite and sane ethical behavior. …

    When you decapitate the intelligence of human beings you create a situation that is highly dangerous and destructive to the human spirit. You cannot save people from their egos by demanding ‘total surrender.’ The anti-democratic technique of forcing blind obedience did not work well for Hitler, Stalin, or for Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh. Germany, Russia, and the Rajneesh Oregon commune were all destroyed because of authoritarian imperial rule. A diversity of opinion is always healthy because it acts as an effective counterbalance to the myopic arrogance of those who would be king. Bhagwan never understood this truth of history and referred to democracy scornfully as ‘mob-ocracy.’ Rajneesh was an imperial aristocrat, never a generous and open minded democrat, and he put his contempt for the democratic process into highly visible action in Oregon.

    Rajneesh used people, spoke out of both sides of his mouth, and betrayed the trust of his own disciples. This betrayal caused Vivek, his longtime girlfriend and companion, to commit suicide. Rajneesh even lied about her death, slandering his greatest love in her grave by falsely claiming that she was chronically depressed due to some intrinsic emotional instability. Vivek was never depressed during the years I knew her and she was the most radiant women I have ever known. … Rajneesh lied about her death simply to avoid taking responsibility for his own bizarre behavior, which was the underlying cause of Vivek’s despair.

    When you combine man’s natural tendency for selfishness with an ivory tower lifestyle, you have a situation where ethical behavior can appear to be optional. Combine the unhealthy atmosphere of self-deification with a debilitating progressive illness that lowers IQ, and on top of that add drug abuse, then you have a cliff that even an enlightened man could fall from. That fall could happen only if the enlightened man makes one wrong choice, one false move, from both the heart and from the mind.
    Bhagwan’s wrong choice was to disregard truthfulness in favor of what he thought were useful lies. Once you make that wrong turn, away from ordinary straightforward truth, you have lost your way. No human being can disregard fact on a regular basis without finding himself in a sea of turmoil because by discarding fact you discard the ground beneath your feet. Little lies grow into big lies and the now hidden truth becomes your enemy, not your friend and ally.

    The disaster of Rajneesh appointing himself the singular great brain of the universe was compounded by his lack of real world reasoning skills, and this was the case even before he started taking large amounts of Valium. Rajneesh could weave magnificent philosophical dreams and addict his disciples to imagined worlds of spiritual adventure, but those dreams did not have to stand any empirical test of truth. In the world of science you have to prove what you say is true through testing. In the world of philosophy and religion you can say anything you desire and throw caution to the wind. If your words sound good to the masses they will sell, whether they are fact or fiction.

    Rajneesh ruled his empire as a warlord with his own private army and puppet government. His visions and ideas, faulty or not, were taken without question as the word of God. His disciples were judged by their ability to surrender to his will and any opposing views were branded as negativity and an unspiritual lack of faith. …

    Even in his fifties Rajneesh was still lying to get his own way, still demanding to always be the center of attention, and by 1988, suffering from drug and illness induced dementia, was pouting that his box of toys, his expensive car collection and jewel encrusted watches, had been taken away. …

    His biggest flaw, his disregard for the ordinary concept of truth, was his ultimate downfall and for that crime he must be held fully responsible with no excuses….

    Bhagwan lied when he said he had enlightened disciples. He lied when he said he never made a mistake. Later he was forced to admit he was fallible as his list of bungles grew to monstrous proportions. He lied by pretending that the therapy groups run by his disciples were not mainly a money making device. Rajneesh broke immigration laws and lied about it in court.

    Rajneesh’s life is a lesson for us all to practice what we preach. Bhagwan gave great advice but he could not heed his own wise words. He is also a reminder not to take what people say very seriously. It is better to observe how people live and put less emphasis on what they speak. Talk is cheap. Actions are more costly and telling.”
    _______________________________________

    l.t.y.a.


  441. #427 Joseph G.
    “Do I love Robert Burton, even today? Yes I do, in spite of myself. He is a part of me, as much as an abusive, possibly alcoholic parent is a part of the son who was his or her victim.”

    Joseph, I think this will all change in you within 5 years.
    Burton used to tell me he was my true father, I was like his son, blah, blah blah…
    Since my relationship with my actual father was pretty vague at the time, I bought into this “paternal” love crap. Now I understand why I was so trusting and loyal to him. And I did think of him as a father figure, even for many years after he revealed to me what a twisted “father” he really was to all his “sons”.

    I think you will find that he is not a part of you or was ever like a parent or true teacher to you. We were being taught by forces much bigger than RB and they DO NOT go away when one finally moves beyond the FOF.

    I truly cannot hate the man, but I no longer have any love for him. As you know, there is a fine line between madness and enlightenment. Too often madness is mistaken for something higher.

    with love,
    Dick


  442. on July 26, 2007 at 9:49 pm Ames Gilbert

    Unianimo,
    Your call for the ‘Story of Brian Sisler’…

    My guess is that no–one knows the ‘whole story’, but I am willing to contribute what I know, and hopefully other will do the same, and between these all, we can make up a composite that is fairly complete.

    I first met Brian Sisler in 1978 when I came to Renaissance. He worked in the White Barn down the road from the lodge (a lake covers the site now), part of a group of “King of Spades” centered people gathered together by Burton in an octave known as “Antique Restoration”. He was quiet, shy, gentle, and reserved. He worked industriously in the woodworking section (next to the auto repair bay) in the back two rooms of the building. The project was the restoration of the Steinway grand piano, last seen by myself in the Town Hall. My task was the restoration of some metal parts, and the replacement of the missing metal leg ends on the matching stool. My parts had to fit the parts he worked on, so we interacted.

    We were kept very busy, many hours a day, and we didn’t get much private time. I found out that he was from the mid–west. I got the impression that he had been in the Fellowship for a couple of years. He enjoyed plays on words, but did not tell jokes; none of us did.

    I was put on other octaves; our friendship did not develop. The next significant interaction I had with him was just after I had become married, in 1981. He asked me what it was like to be married. Why I remembered this was because of the wistfulness in his question and in the ensuing conversation. My impression is that some lady had ‘put the move on him’, and he was wondering how to respond. He really wanted to have someone close to hug and love and cherish. I teased him a little about it, and said he should do it (meaning, get married—the ‘no sex outside marriage’ exercise was current then). I had no idea then, nor since that he was supposedly ‘gay’. My wife tells me that her ‘gaydar’ at that time told her that he was.

    After I left salary, our paths diverged sharply. In about 1983, my wife told me that she had seen Brian walking down Rice’s Crossing Rd several times, and that his demeanor struck him as odd. She had offered him lifts, but he had strongly refused. Then we heard that Brian had walked to Marysville (28 miles) one day, also refusing lifts, and that his behavior was becoming ‘odder’.

    I went to nursing school, and caught TB from a patient. I couldn’t work as a nurse, we got into financial trouble, and moved to Sacramento. During our time there, we were told that Brian had been stabbed and was in hospital. The official story, given by the center director, was that he had been stabbed 44 times, that this was a signal from C-Influence, and that he had been ‘released’ from the Fellowship, and had returned to his family in the mid-west.

    A few years later, Leigh M., one of the “King of Spades” in the Antique Restoration octave, and I got talking about Brian. She had been a much closer friend with him, and had stayed in intermittent contact after he left. She told me he had left home and was living on the streets of his hometown. He refused help from his family. She also told me that he had been homeless when he was stabbed in Sacramento. About a year later, she told me that he was applying to re–join the FoF, and that his application was being evaluated by a FoF psychiatrist. He was allowed back.

    I went to a private dinner at the Lodge to celebrate his return. When I asked him about his experiences, he looked at me and said very softly and clearly, “Everything that happened in the last ten years was totally unnecessary”. That is all he’d say about it. I found out that the 44 stab wounds were mythological, invented by Burton. There had in fact been five.

    I felt at the time he was one of the few people who really needed to be in the Fellowship for his own safety, provided Burton left him alone, which appeared to be the case.

    About three years later, I left the FoF, and the next contact was when I saw him in Dobbins, last year (2006). He was staying with Janet M. She told me he had been given ‘leave of absence’ from the FoF, and she had given him a room to stay in behind her house. He was living very marginally, from time to time he was able to find some finish carpentry work and contribute to food and rent. That was the last time I saw him.

    About six months ago, I heard the rumors that he was dead. I checked around, and they appeared to be true.

    This is what I can piece together, but I stress I have no first–hand information. I hear he went to the FoF gatehouse, and asked to see Burton. Burton refused to see him. He made his way down to Marysville, checked into a motel, and hanged himself.

    I have a copy of an unpublished manuscript by a former student, who describes her own journey through the FoF, from infatuated newbie to horrified onlooker and final withdrawal. All the names in the book, except her own and Burton’s, have been changed to protect herself. It is an amazing story, and I wish it could be published. It is titled, “Strange Truth. A Horror Story”. One of the central characters of this story is that of “Tristan”—Brian Sisler. She describes their deep friendship and his emotional and physical pain as Burton brutalized him, how he lay groaning on the floor of the Blake Cottage for hours after a session with him. This went on for years. She had first–hand knowledge, her job was to clean the Blake Cottage around the comings and goings of Burton, —and to clean the soiled underwear. She recalls the perfuming of Burton and the air around to cover the sordid smells. I wish she would publish the book, but I can understand her reluctance to endure what Burton and Goldman would throw at her.

    She dedicated the book to “Tristan”.

    This book is dedicated to dearest “Tristan” who, after years of remorseless effort on the part of the Teacher, was finally destroyed.

    At the time of writing, Brian had arrived back home with his father, and so the author could not have known what was to happen. But even at that time, her observation was that he had been destroyed…

    My understanding is that Brian was a schizophrenic. The “higher being” that is Burton took ruthless advantage of his weaknesses and used him as his personal property, to do with as he wished. There was no compassion, no love, no understanding, Brian was just an object for his gratification. And when things became too uncomfortable, he was thrown away, like a soiled tissue, and with as much compunction. Compost. I channel my anger about this and other things that have happened as best as I can, right now mainly through the blog, and hopefully in a constructive way. There are many other stories yet to be told, by many, many people; they are slowly being revealed, and Burton will be shown, once and for all, for the horror that he is. That is my hope.

    And I hope the pieces of Brian’s life will come together to form a whole with the contributions of other readers.

    Ames


  443. on July 26, 2007 at 9:50 pm if memory serves

    Despite life’s busyness, I repeatedly come out to my office to read some more of the blog, uncomfortable at spending so much time doing so, but realizing on a deeper level its healing potential. It when I catch up to the current postings that I most strongly feel all of you out there in the world thinking about and contributing to this amazing thing and send my heartfelt thanks to all contributors, silent or vocal. Much of the time, the memories feel like they are from a long time ago, happening to someone else. Today, I am startled by how immediate the feelings are, you who are writing today words that evoke feelings today felt now by me.

    Whalerider, at the end of your post 417, I cried deeply and to those who know me, know I am usually more reserved and cry rarely. An internalized phrase from my occasional therapist ”follow the feelings” helped overcome my immediate impulse to just move along to something else. Most days, I’ve felt so detached, like I can relate, but it isn’t really MY story. Today, I felt like “that girl”.

    I loved James G. my first boyfriend in the fof, mid-70’s. We lived in a teepee up the hill with a red couch and carpets. James was a poet, a sweet gentle man who went head to head with Robert. I remember my confusion when I realized I was competing with my teacher for the affection of my boyfriend. Confusion, sadness, anger, uncomprehending shock. James left the group and I regret that I cannot access more clearly what happened. There is so much shame mixed in with the excitement of having found a “school of evolution”. I’m sure I did not talk about the shameful parts and just moved on with the “evolution” parts.

    Being a female “second class citizen”, I settled for “second-best” closeness to rb, by getting involved with Thomas E. There was a big triangular struggle going on there, too, but again, the shame shrouding the situation did not allow us to talk openly about it and I remember just being very confused. Thomas and I fought often about it and eventually moved farther and farther apart. I remember calling him from the pay phone in the Lodge while he was traveling with rb to tell him I was pregnant and him telling me to just take care of it. I knew it wasn’t wanted, by him, by me, by Robert, so was shortly thereafter driven to Yuba City by Fran for an abortion. I know I’m leaving out the next chapter, but one step at a time.

    I had permission to play the piano in the Goethe Academy during lunch when no one was there. It was one of the happiest hours of my days. When Robert would come smilingly back after lunch in the company of those from his entourage, his face would fall upon seeing me, and although it is not exactly the reptilian conversion Cyclops referred to in his powerful post above, that look of revulsion, disappointment, annoyance was one that I and many other women were on the receiving end on many occasions.

    One other memory from my days of a woman in the company of men around the Blake Cottage/Goethe Academy was sadly watching while RB walked around and around the outside perimeter of the lawn trying to convince one of his wonderful young men that he and his lovely girlfriend/or wife, can’t remember the timing, must not have a child, and that in fact they must have an abortion. I had an opportunity to see this sad childless couple years later (when I was “out” and they still “in” thus we didn’t converse) and my heart has always gone out to them.

    My tears are for you, Whalerider, Cyclops, THAT GIRL, Joseph G., Richard M, Elena, and many others who lost faith in themselves, were deceived, coerced, had abortions, gave their children away, shared their husbands with another, for all the suffering you experienced. They are for me, for the teenager I once was, for the world I’m leaving to my children. May tears of joy fall once again on us all.

    Susan


  444. Dick Moron #421: I felt there were two Fat Boys last night. At least one post I thought was phoney. Maybe two.

    Innernaut #220: Thanks for the vote of confidence. I have been bowled over by some of these thinkers and writers since reading the Shieks introduction on page one. In fact on page one Shiek made a suggestion that I believe turned into the Greater Fellowship 14 pages or so later. I posted something under the heading of anonymous that is true for me, then and now. After the Shiek made his suggestion, I said, “how about an internet school”? I”m learning a lot on this blog.

    Vera-mente mentioned that she wants to tell her story but does not trust some people on the blog. I say to her, go slow, and trust your intutition. And, to remember from time to time, how WhaleRider and ELena unzipped and let it all hang out. They were kicked, molested, insulted, and I’m at loss for words for what they went through. And, they still stand.

    Peter #300 is connected for me with #323 Alice E: I agree with Alice E 100% with her description of gold alchemy in the sense of turning inner lead into inner gold. It was explained to me in 1977 that the refinement octave was to work against “life’s” tramp feature. After 1979 I have no clue

    I didnt write down exactly what Peter said, but I think he was responding to someone and said, “n_ck spauld_gs and linda T. will become poor, old and jobless citizens”. This is how I connected Peter and Alice: As you get older and too tired because of the aches and pains, and maybe diseases and handicaps, and certainly if you live alone, then your external efforts of gold achemy will suffer. Maybe you might give up altogether. Especially, if you are poor.

    However if you are Robert Burton then one need’nt worry about suffering alone. The “boys” will maintain the structure, clean, tidy and wipe.

    In my opinion Alice E is in the invisible 4th Way school spoken about by Rodney Collin. Well, we all are.

    Renald #303 : I’ve been in a “twlight zone” for a long time.
    Cylops #314 : thank you.

    Bruce #344 That was a good one.

    Fat Boy: The real one. For me, if this was 1977 instead of 2007 and I was reading what you are reading, I would be tormented beyond belief. I too would be frozen stiff. I can just hear the echoing past now, “oh my, oh my, now what”?

    And finally, I like nigel harris price’s style. Something unique.


  445. #439 if memory serves:

    Susan,
    You were always so radiant and beautiful and seemingly positive, but I could also see that you were also being run through the wringer by RB.
    It’s good that we are becoming more able to recall our histories with less attachment. I certainly don’t dwell in my past, but I find it good to re-examine and share accounts of certain memories.

    dick


  446. Dear Susan.
    The moment of him seeing a woman in the academy that I was most shocked by, was when one day Mildred who normally came by and set out amazing floral arrangements was replaced by a younger perhaps more attractive young lady.
    His comment and the shocking vehemence out of proportion to the event is what I remember to this day it was ” who let that woman in here.”
    Try to envision Clint Eastwood as dirty harry on amphetamine saying it and you will be closer to the energy of the situation.
    The poor girl was completely stunned.
    Its shocking how we could let stuff like this just run of our feathers.
    regards Cy.


  447. #439 unoanimo

    Regarding beating up on Fat Boy, I know what I wrote and what I meant, and that it would be controversial.

    As for your point itself, I understand where you are coming from and respectfully disagree. Your approach and apparent attitude toward what I wrote is another story.

    Part of my reason for leaving the FOF was judgement and photographs-from-on-high like the one you just gave me. You are very presumptuous if you really assume my perspective came from “my lower centers,” but more important, it is a well-known FOF tactic to marginalize another person’s point of view by giving a strong king of hearts photograph like the one you just gave me. It may seem caring but it’s really just below the belt. I don’t play that game anymore.


  448. 439. Susan.

    Thank you. I have never spoken to any woman in the fellowship who felt that and did not know if there were any. I just could not believe there weren’t any when it was such a horrible situation and the pattern was the same in my husband even if he did not have sex with Robert.

    You have no idea how much you have helped me with your letter, how grateful I am for it, please, take it all.
    Thank you again Joseph for your clarity.

    Thank you all. Elena


  449. #435 Tim Campion

    I totally agree with both the substance and the spirit of what you wrote.

    To answer you question (and I apologize if you only meant the question in a rhetorical sense), for me personally there remains no lingering doubt that leaving was not only positive but critically necessary for continuing my spiritual growth. What I attempted to express in my post was the nature of my own and others’ fear before taking the step of leaving. A lot has been written here about the fear of going to the moon or being annihilated in a global catastrophe, i.e. the fear of a hopeless snivelling cult-member, but I think for most FOF members today the biggest fear is that they will not be strong enough to keep working on themselves if they move on. They do not want to lose what they have gained.

    BTW, for me, the whole concept of “working on myself” is on hold for now; but without question the feeling of being able to finally make a fresh start is very strong and vital, and exhilerating.

    Thanks for your thoughts.

    Joseph G


  450. #445 Joseph G:

    Hi, Joseph.

    My question was not rhetorical, and your reply was exactly what I expected: “for me personally there remains no lingering doubt that leaving was not only positive but critically necessary for continuing my spiritual growth.”

    And from what I have observed on this blog, the “concept of ‘working on (your)self'” is not only alive and well, but thriving.

    Best wishes to you and your family.

    Tim


  451. #437 dick moron

    Just to clarify, I did not say RB was like a father to me. In fact, my parallel to an alcoholic family left the abusive parent’s gender unspecified (i.e. “his or her victim”).

    Yes, RB said those things about being my real father to me too. Ridiculous. I got over all that a few years ago, while I was till in and he was treating me like I didn’t exist.

    I don’t disagree with anything you say about loving RB, and my feelings may well change over time. Whatever love I have for Robert Burton is not based on a sentimental father-son relationship, but only out of gratitude for whatever role he played in giving me the many valuable things I received during my 31 years in the FOF. If this is a buffer to help me escape with a clear conscience, so be it. For sure I prefer not to hate him or fear him (which seem like very similar emotions), and I think in time I will probably come to pity him.

    I have chosen to reveal my feelings here, only because it may help others understand their own feelings; my intentions are a very different thing. I intend to help in any way I can to bring the truth to as many current FOF members as possible, in my own small way. This will certainly not come across like love for the man, and I am not afraid or reluctant to hurt him (financially, emotionally, etc.) in so doing.

    With love for you too,

    Joseph G


  452. 445

    “but I think for most FOF members today the biggest fear is that they will not be strong enough to keep working on themselves if they move on. They do not want to lose what they have gained.”

    Because this theory is pounded into all members right from the first, at first subtly, and then quite blatantly, especially if one is asking questions.

    Fear is cultivated. It’s a standard cult dynamic.


  453. I just talked with a friend who came after “his night on duty” from Robert.

    I heard in his voice zero complaints and a lot of endurance, embracing of suffering
    He said: “How else you are going to awaken? This pain is necessary for transformation and awakening. What else did you expect from an esoteric school?”

    Later he added that he understands prostitutes, that they are the closest people to the God on Earth…

    The pain factory which makes me so angry is a preferred influence for him. What could I say? I don’t know…


  454. on July 27, 2007 at 12:07 am Ames Gilbert

    Yes, Joseph and Bruce, it is indeed a standard cult dynamic and a specific dynamic between Burton and his followers. He told me directly, told others in my presence, and told others who then told yet others, that he was the essential intermediary between ‘his’ students and C–Influence, that he was responsible for any higher states the followers experienced (states experienced before the FoF were C-Influence preparing the follower for the school), and that continuing ‘evolution’ was categorically dependent on continuing contact with him and remaining in the Fellowship of Friends.

    Of course followers in the Fellowship are afraid of they can’t continue work without him or that they will lose what they have gained! And believing these assertions, taking them to be fact, and incorporating that into one’s worldview, is what turns a student into a follower.


  455. “What else did you expect from an esoteric school?”

    A lot else.


  456. on July 27, 2007 at 12:16 am Living the Questions

    Thank you Susan and Joseph for the posts straight from the heart.
    Susan, I had to stop what I was doing here and allow for some tears of my own, as I was also in a relationship with James G. while I was in the Carmel center. Your post brought up strong feelings and memories, especially a sense of shame for my inability to really comprehend and be there for him during his ‘dark night of the soul’. I was a new student at the time and much too enchanted with the Fellowhip of Friends to be able to fully empathize with what he was experiencing. It is painful to go back and remember, but necessary in order to understand how this happened to us and to begin forgiving ourselves.
    -Nancy G


  457. on July 27, 2007 at 1:02 am with malice toward none

    Joseph 427: “I left because Robert Burton no longer teaches the mystery of this moment, but instead focuses on a rigid form of prayer”

    Hello Joseph, we know each other well and are good friends. I plan to call you sometime soon.

    For me this post of yours is the most incredible of your consistently incredible posts. Your 10 points sum it up for me exactly. The main reason I am staying now is *because* of the sequence. We had self-remembering. It works. Anyone can do it, at least a little. We had the non-expression of negativity. This gave more fuel to self-remembering. Better states. We also had imagination which takes it all away in an instant. There was the problem. The states could almost never be prolonged. Now we have the sequence which starts to control imagination. When used in conjunction with the other tools, states are prolonged. The more the state is prolonged, the more one can see that it is always this moment. The ‘mystery of this moment’ is intensified, more revealed.

    I have no idea how our experiences with this could be so different, however, so be it.

    Thank you for your clarity.


  458. I posted this before, but in vanished into cyberspace.

    If the fof becomes dismantled, it will make the perfection location for filming the movie; “The Blog”. Maybe we can recruit Michael G. to help write the screen play from the 7000 + posts.


  459. on July 27, 2007 at 1:18 am with malice toward none

    Ames 438: ‘This is what I can piece together, but I stress I have no first–hand information. I hear he went to the FoF gatehouse, and asked to see Burton. Burton refused to see him. He made his way down to Marysville, checked into a motel, and hanged himself.”

    From my knowllege, a pretty good summary. I have an elaboration to this last bit which is also second or third hand.

    This was the latest of several recent requests over the preceding months at the gatehouse to see Robert, all of which were refused. Then sometime later (hours, couple of days??) whoever he was staying with (Janet M.??) was worried and called the authorities. He was picked up and detained somewhere in Marysville for some length of time (48 or 72 hours??). They legally had to let him go at the end of the time. The rest happened immediately after being released.


  460. on July 27, 2007 at 1:19 am with malice toward none

    oops, knowledge not knowllege


  461. on July 27, 2007 at 1:42 am Ni_k Spa_ldi_g

    From AMES #438
    ‘Story of Brian Sisler’…

    Ames wrote:
    “This is what I can piece together, but I stress I have no first–hand information. I hear he went to the FoF gatehouse, and asked to see Burton. Burton refused to see him.”

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    To those who knew Brian, and gave him their love:

    Please know that Robert did not “refuse” to see
    him. . . .

    A message was sent to Robert that Brian wanted to
    talk to him…..Brian left the gatehouse…….
    Before the message got through, the play was
    apparently over.


  462. When I was younger and more active, my sex life was of this nature, “once a night is enough”. Basically that was it.

    I’ve read that homosexual men can go many times more and with different people. That might be my imagination with different people.

    I’m comparing myself and I dont understand where that physical endurance (energy) comes from? Would that be tapping into the “accumulator”?

    And, Robert Burton said he had how many sexual experiences with different men in 38 years of FOF commander-in-chief?

    I remember overhearing conversations about Robert Burton’s attitude about children. As I remember, it was on the line of, they make too much noise, they need too much attention and they are too young to understand.


  463. 458

    “I remember overhearing conversations about Robert Burton’s attitude about children. As I remember, it was on the line of, they make too much noise, they need too much attention and they are too young to understand.”

    And they take too much of the parent’s energy away from HIM. Classic narcissist.


  464. Somebody (449)

    I thought it was real interesting the way your friend tried to justify his sexual submission to RB. You quote him as saying, “How else you are going to awaken? This pain is necessary for transformation and awakening. What else did you expect from an esoteric school?”

    By that line of reasoning everybody in the FOF should be forced to have sex with Robert because they need all that pain so that they can transform it and awaken. What about all the unfortunate ones (most of the school) who don’t get this special “opportunity to transform suffering”? Isn’t Robert neglecting them? What a load of crap!

    Also I found it interesting how he tacitly acknowledges that he is like a prostitute and then absurdly says that “he understands prostitutes, that they are the closest people to the God on Earth…”

    This guy obviously hasn’t been with many prostitutes. Or maybe it’s just that he can afford to go to the really high-class, spiritually enlightened ones. LOL.


  465. Hello Arthur ~

    You wrote ~

    “I’m comparing myself and I dont understand where that physical endurance (energy) comes from? Would that be tapping into the “accumulator”?”
    __________________________

    It’s called Viagra, arthur; there’s no Large Accumulator tap dancing going on in The Fellowship of Friends den.

    l.t.y.a.


  466. Hello Joseph ~

    You wrote to Tim ~

    “If this is a buffer to help me escape with a clear conscience, so be it.

    …my intentions are a very different thing.”
    _________________________________

    Joseph, I remember you well, though I try not to have that memory serve me too much now, that would be entering fairly tale land regarding the you that is now… I try and sense your words and the context they float around in; in between the first capital of the first sentence to the last period of the last sentence.

    I sensed that there was some sentimental wiseacring gong on; particularly in regards to your idea of feelings for Robert Burton, which, over the hundreds of conversations with current and ex students; 98% of their ‘feelings for Robert Burton’ are affirmation-residues, one way street signs, not reciprocal, not up to date in regards to Robert Burton’s true known reception of such feelings…

    It’s pretty harmless to send out good feelings, even to the likes of Robert Burton, yet, in such contexts as here, I sense one needs to have some sort of ‘aim’… not just the publishing of one’s personal, altruistic feelings; context is simply bound to wonder about where your going with such things in context of the blog, which is sorta a workshop of a kind.

    Honestly, for me, I do not believe anyone can “escape with a clear conscience” with the help or presence of a “buffer”… What you wrote is simply impossible (internally, in the “I Am only Real When I Am” world… this is my opinion.

    I do not see any “marginalizing” in my observation to you; with no eye contact in this blog, it’s too easy to say things like that and not really know whether that’s really it…

    Confusion is alright, just try not to pretend to be a Used Car Salesman while driving a 2008 BMW 735i convertable.
    ___________________________

    l.t.y.a.


  467. Can anyone say “Stockholm Syndrome”?


  468. “A message was sent to Robert that Brian wanted to talk to him…Brian left the gatehouse…. .Before the message got through, the play was apparently over.”

    Gaduates, do you have anything more positive to say for this spiritually dead asshole?


  469. Hello ~ ‘with malice toward none’ (455) ~

    You wrote ~

    “This was the latest of several recent requests over the preceding months at the gatehouse to see Robert, all of which were refused.”
    _____________

    Nick Spaulding wrote ~

    “A message was sent to Robert that Brian wanted to
    talk to him…..Brian left the gatehouse…….
    Before the message got through, the play was
    apparently over.”
    ______________

    Nickolas,

    I truly cannot find the appropriate words to describe the utter heartless-ness of this posting; I have yet to find a more cold hearted, malicious, ruthless and soul-less demonstration of the possibility for human compassion and external consideration on this blog (BTW, these are still not the words I feel will only be given to you in time by certain (non-FoF wiseacred) ‘external influences’)…

    May Brian Sisler’s spirit have patience with you.

    Surely, even prayers can go in two different directions, i.e., ascending and descending…

    The story of Robert Burton’s refusal to see Brain Sisler in his moment of need is notoriously consistent; your role of monitoring this blog site has come to an end, for such a “the play was apparently over” comment truly shows that the monitoring of yourself is not priority, which annuls anything you ‘think’ you’re attending to…

    If the gatehouse guard on duty that night wishes to state otherwise, use his or her real name, say it to the face of Brain’s father in a court of law, then, let that be your proof… (although, even that would not mean much to me personally, I know Robert Burton; I sense (and have read) that he lied about Brian’s stabbing to obtain a stronger erection for his ‘I got C-Influence’ rape of student’s naively open essences.

    I also know his deep fear of his ‘image’ as ‘Gold plated sugar daddy #1’ being tarnished by mingling with ‘the dirty and in four lower center need’ likes of students, who, in their hours of nervous breakdowns, psychotic breaks, the viscous-ness of death’s fluids being upon their bodies, severe alcoholic desperatenesses, that he has nothing substantial to offer them; a quizzical glance, a ‘Know that I love you dear… click.’

    So, Nicholas, you’ve done no one a positive or fair service by your carrion eater treatment of the dead, the ceasing of roles that are unto themselves holy relics, never to be keyed by none other than the god who inhabited it, other than giving to this audience of thousands more brutal proof that your organization is chaos, lie, manipulation on all levels of human and spiritual decency…

    As far as the message not getting through in time to catch Brian before he left, I understand and know otherwise;

    anyone who has been either ‘used up’ by Robert Burton or has said ‘no’ to his advances, who later request a private and urgent meeting with him is refused (usually by a second party, not even Robert Burton’s voice itself) …

    And BTW, my old friend, you know and I know that all urgent messages to Robert Burton take less than 5 minutes to make it to him; (unless he’s in the ‘War Room’)…

    albeit Asaf likes to try and milk as much ‘juice’ from your glossy lips before the words make it to Robert’s private ear (which may add another 2-3 minutes of maneuvering around his sparkling ferret nose and KGB demeanor)…

    Asaf likes to imagine that he has already thought about whatever it is that you’ve concluded; tending to have the air of an underage butler whose always one step ahead of you concerning the services of Robert Burton, Asaf is just a few shiny buckles away from joining you in “One Flew Over The Coo-coo’s Nest’…

    I pray for you Nickolas Spalding, truly I do; anyone who could produce such ruthlessness of viewing, such utter carelessness and pitiful self aggrandizement, using another spirit’s role’s death to pump up your “apparently the play was over’ limp organ of perception, placing it upon such an entity as it was playing Brian; you must certainly be in a sort of hell, that this Planet Purgatory is in no way an undergraduate in producing, though not altogether foolproof is keeping inmates indefinitely…

    May Meher Baba have mercy on your ‘soul’…

    ___________________________________

    l.t.y.a.


  470. Nickolas,

    Perhaps your ‘conscious teacher’ was doing something ‘more important’ than tending to his past karma, like post 294/part 1, unconsciously maintaining it’s unpaid debt; his ‘students of the fourth way’ being his unconscious creditors (?) School of Awakening? To what? As what? This?
    _________________________________

    ?


  471. on July 27, 2007 at 9:06 am Another Name

    Dear All,

    My heart is……..
    My eyes…….
    Words…..

    I feel so sorry for the women ho believed Robert, to have abortions and to give the children away……How hurt are they and if they do not come forward, how much do they buffer and one day it will come out…and it will hurt, so badly or they will need drugs and anti depressants etc.

    Dear brothers and sisters all this pain is now with me and I try to be with it. Not wish it away, just be here, sit, silently.

    Dear Joseph I have to look inside of myself what it was that I attracted the play being in the fellowship of friends. the fellowship of friends with so much darkness, crime, descending octaves in the name of working on your soul and consciousness.
    All the lies…
    I did the 5 questions from Byron Kathie and could not find a resonance within myself. A dear friend said: sweetheart, you could not see it because there was no resonance in yourself. It just was not in you. You could not see it.
    Then I saw a video with the story that Columbus sailed to the Fuji islands and the Indians could not see his ship. They had never seen a ship .The Shaman was the one who was able to see it slowly and explained it to them. Dear Joseph, Tim, Bruce, Whaleridder, Fat boy many off you where spon into the spider web as far as I see it. Yes there are also people who will confess that hey have the same tendencies and for that matter do not mind being in a relationship as also they see that this is the way to have “intimate moments” with their Teacher.
    Many other reasons for sure that I can not express now because I can not see the whole.

    I do feel that I would like to contribute something to stop, to stop, to stop, this hurt in the fellowship of friends…..

    We will see, something is already happening….and as whaleridder explains himself:” I really would like to see Robert stop to abuse younger men, his actions are not pure and honest. He uses a web and for years often will try to seduce him. AND ALL DEAR FELLOWSHIP BELIEVERS LOOK IN YOUR HEART AND CONSCIENCE. IF THIS IS WHAT INFLUENCE C WANTS IS IT NOT TIME TO QUESTION INFLUENCE C?

    Do you have the guts to question Influence C?????
    I did it, in the darkness of night, in silence hours…

    I came to the understanding if this is the method of Influence C then I will give up my awakening COMPLETELY. I WILL GO TO THE MOON. I will take that responsibility completely.

    Dear all…the airco is blowing,
    silence in the trees
    The voice of your conscience
    Peace in your heart, for now.


  472. on July 27, 2007 at 9:14 am More history needed?

    Dear Nick and others

    Please do not take Nic serious. He himself as I heard had a real difficult upbringing. Has often looked for surrogate parents. Ask M.

    Nick is not able to make two way contact with you. He will talk more then you, will not ask you a question in a two way communication way. He takes more then 80% of the communication pie. (And maybe other pies?)

    He is not friends with anybody because he can only be friends if their is a gain? Never learned to exchange love …he probably never got it himself, early on in his childhood…

    I feel pitty for this man….
    No need to take him serious, use your time in a more constructive way?

    Sorry Nick, maybe time for therapy?


  473. Dear Unoanimo 465:

    I was only in the Fellowship of Friends a short time and left 6 months ago or so but remember talking to N.S about Brian’s death and N.C was very depressed and close to tears….

    Did, I miss another post by N.C, he seemed to start by sharing our love for him then stating very simply and plainly the facts as how he knows it. Maybe he is wrong, lying? Go ahead and refute! But wow, Unoanimo, I think Brian would be looking down on you now and feeling that post of yours actually put him in a negative light.

    N.S said the “The play was apparently over”, I interpreted as just a a nicer way that he died.

    I think of Brian now, and remember his smile and kindness.


  474. on July 27, 2007 at 9:36 am Bass Ackwards

    Hello Fellow Bloggers,

    Thanks for all these amazing posts, funny at this point I cannot think of a bad one as this blog just keeps on getting better and better. Well – OK – Graduates, it would do us all well for you to be banned, but then hey, this is a free country, and if you left, some new “nudge” would have to arise.

    For all those reading this blog with opened eyes but who are still within the Fellowship of Friends for whatever reason (please don’t apologize), think about how to help this unveiling process from within, if you will. My two bits are this: don’t force the Blog onto your Friends. I understand by now that doing so simply does not work, because no one wants to know, in fact, it rather causes the thick skin to grow ever thicker. However, as students, we can offer to each other the transcendent understanding of Advaita. Introducing our Friends to Nisargadatta is the best way out that I can think of. Why? Not only because he is so truly Conscious, but also because by the time any one of us is smitten by his profound understanding, we are also ready to hear what he has to say about the Guru , both True and False and internal and external. From there it is a small step to compare his spiritual nutrition with what RB is dishing out at $$$ a pop. But all this takes time, digestive time.

    Cheers,
    Bass


  475. on July 27, 2007 at 9:52 am Bass Ackwards

    453 with malice toward none [in reference to Joseph G.’s #427 post]
    You said:
    “For me this post of yours is the most incredible of your consistently incredible posts. Your 10 points sum it up for me exactly. The main reason I am staying now is “because” of the sequence. We had self-remembering. It works. Anyone can do it, at least a little. We had the non-expression of negativity. This gave more fuel to self-remembering. Better states. We also had imagination which takes it all away in an instant. There was the problem. The states could almost never be prolonged. Now we have the sequence which starts to control imagination. When used in conjunction with the other tools, states are prolonged. The more the state is prolonged, the more one can see that it is always this moment. The ‘mystery of this moment’ is intensified, more revealed.”

    Dear WMTN, go deeper, nothing more is necessary. You are absolutely right, the Sequence is a great tool for Prolonging Presence. If you use it for Self Remembering, the Non- Expression (ultimately the transformation) of Negative Emotions and work on Imagination, what else is there? Oh, yes, but what about Identification?

    So ask yourself if after a Sequence or a number of Sequences, are you less Identified? I’ll bet you will say “yes!”. Good for you (and me too after a similar effort). But are you totally non identified? Disinterestedly observing the “ten thousand I’s” flowing in and out of the machine? In the Third State? The Witness? The Third Eye? I’ll bet you’ll say “well, no, not really”? So what kind of Presence is achieved? The machine controlling the machine? Something like that? To my understanding that is what the Sequence is doing for us. It is a very nice tool for quieting the mind, like the action of a good, well applied Mantra. And for that matter all of our School exercises seem to be aimed at precisely that place, the machine controlling the machine.

    But consider again, if you will, what Ouspensky and Gurdjieff and the Fourth Way might really have meant by the six obstacles to Awakening. To my understanding, the obstacles keep you from realizing in pure, simple facts that you, as a Person, do not exist. “We imagine ourselves, really.” P.D.O. So, if you want to get that THAT place, then every tool that you use must be applied towards the aim of realization of one’s nothingness (better described as no-thingness). For doing something like that, Conscience has to be awakened and applied ruthlessly to one’s self – and others. Buffers and lying, out the window, please. Imaginary picture of one’s self created from all of the above obstacles, out the window, please.

    Consider, again if you will, just the possibility that Joseph is on a different page in this process than you? This blog is about revealing the imaginary picture of the Fellowship of Friends as a bona fide Conscious School and the imaginary picture of Robert Burton as a bona fide Conscious, caring Teacher. That’s all. But that’s big. And then ask yourself, given all the information that is revealed here on the Blog about his actions, not his words, whether Robert Burton has truly awakened to a place of No-Thingness, of not being a “Person”, and all that such a realization can and should mean? I’m not going to answer that question for you, as it would not help you or me, so dear WMTN, good luck to you, good luck to us all.
    Love,
    Bass


  476. on July 27, 2007 at 10:29 am More history needed?

    Dear All

    What I heard:

    When E and C got their 3 th baby it was a girl. C the father told students that Robert Burton said: Nice for E to have a baby girl, someting for her to keep occupied, like a baby doll.

    Draw your own conclusions.


  477. I just remembered a “teaching tool” provided by Ouspensky.
    Any conscious being could (do) it without “effort”.

    I’ve change it slightly.

    I would think Robert Burton could easily teach it with his “teacher feature(s)”.

    To paraphrase Ouspensky. Take a high alchemy (gold) watch with second hand. (look) at the second hand without (identification) using the teaching tools of (divided attention/self remembering) and the “sequence”. All the while in complete awareness of the ticking of the clock.

    The question is how long can you go?


  478. 472 arthur.
    hi . Strangely enough I find that this exercise works best with a jewelled rolex oyster!
    lty Cy.


  479. on July 27, 2007 at 1:55 pm Ames Gilbert

    Crouching Tiger, thank you for your information. So it seems true that Asaf’s present marriage is indeed a sham designed to get a Green Card. I wonder how the current fiancée (who used to be really good friends with my daughter) and her parents ‘buffer’ that.

    I just want to get this straight. You say there are a hundred “researchers” in one group, and thirty in the second. Are these all on FoF salary? How many people are on salary total nowadays? It seems there must be a large proportion of the total FoF residents in Oregon House are doing research, and as Purchase Awakening forthrightly commented, are then paying (a lot!) to have their angles read back to them—spiced up with misleading, irrelevant commentary or outright lies. Heckuva deal!.

    Hello, Somebody
    Thank you for the reality check on the situation at Isis. Yes, the blog is like wispy vapor. We have little power on the material level. Yet, there are some powerful ideas circulating here, and there is no defense against ideas. The energy in the blog waxes and wanes, there is a period of excitement now, it may seem duller next week. Yet the ideas and information percolate, make invisible connections, swirl around, suggest. I think and hope they are helpful to some right now, and will prove helpful to others in the future.

    As to the ‘revolution’, let’s see if the recent mass mailing has any effect. I’d assume most people in the FoF would chuck it away—but maybe not before reading it? The rest might stash it somewhere on the premise that ‘you never know’, and retrieve it some day. I expected the Troy Buzbee episode to have much more of an effect than it did, but it was absorbed and the FoF ‘seemed’ to have carried on regardless. But now, there is the Blog…

    And the rest of the lucky box holders in Oregon House? I’d bet there are a few interesting conversations going on at the breakfast table…

    Thanks again,
    Ames


  480. on July 27, 2007 at 2:14 pm Ames Gilbert

    Hello Ni_k Spa_ldi_g,
    I appreciate your input. To me, your reply tells much more than you apparently realize to those who have actually experienced and studied the Fellowship, and particularly the flow of information and power, up and down the hierarchy.

    Still, tell us what you think (but preferably know) of the contents of Burton’s reply to Brian’s message that presumably ‘arrived too late’ back at the gatehouse. Or if Burton replied at all.
    And what you know of the previous interactions (both requests and replies) when Brian visited the gatehouse, as mentioned above.

    Please.

    Thank you,
    Ames


  481. Bass Ackwards (around) 469

    Well – OK – Graduates, it would do us all well for you to be banned, but then hey, this is a free country, and if you left, some new “nudge” would have to arise.

    ***************

    Here’s another “nudge,” like many voices appearing at this location in cyber-land you are a certified lunatic. That’s not your fault, but nevertheless it is a consideration that has an effect on one’s sense of empathy. It is astounding as it sinks in what happened to many a human being at the hands of the rancid Burton and increasingly as I scan through this mess my blood runs cold at the inhumanity and also hot with anger, but at the same time the obviously diminished mental clarity of many of the insistently rambling characters such as yourself makes it difficult to feel wholehearted sympathy for your plight, though I would add that you are not the craziest. The fact that you use the fascinating horror of this ongoing evil cult as it is increasing revealed here as an excuse to parade your wacky obsessive mania around before the pseudo-public is tiresome. One cannot help but have the uninvited and unwanted thought that it is no wonder you fell into such a set of circumstances. What is even stranger is that the relatively intelligent contributors go out of their way to praise in many cases the excruciatingly batty, incoherent ravings of some of the apparent victims for no other reason than that they seem to somehow agree with the general and justifiable condemnation of Burton and the FoF. In fact, in my estimation, the repetitive and obsessive “contributions” of people such as yourself (and again, you are not the worst of them), people that do not seem quite right in the head, actually repels to some degree any healthy general interest in what happened. For those who are going to come out with criticism toward me in order to defend the repetition-compulsion activity of the more vocal nuts, screw you in advance. I appreciate your attention concerning this particular point.


  482. on July 27, 2007 at 2:30 pm Ames Gilbert

    A big “Thank You” to whoever sent out the mass mailing to all the postboxes. It will be interesting to follow the flow of this real–time experiment; we can watch the stone being thrown into the pond, and how the ripples spread out. As with the ‘real thing’, after a while the ripples become too small for us to appreciate with the naked eye, but they are there, nevertheless, and the energy is never lost, just transmuted into other kinds of energies.
    I wish there was a way to contribute to the cost of mailing. Maybe some day…

    Warm regards,
    Ames


  483. 469 Bass Ackwards

    “However, as students, we can offer to each other the transcendent understanding of Advaita. Introducing our Friends to Nisargadatta is the best way out that I can think of. Why? Not only because he is so truly Conscious, but also because by the time any one of us is smitten by his profound understanding, we are also ready to hear what he has to say about the Guru”

    I seriously question this as a useful approach. This is wishful self centered thinking. Perhaps there is something in this teaching but that is not the question. This merely replaces one theoretical doctrine with another. It may or may not be useful. The problem remains the same and is not addressed. What currant Fellowship members experience appears to have been diagnosed accurately as a cult phenomena. There has to be a process of realization and a change in attitudes. The substitution of one “system” for another is not a good approach. It is like changing seats on a train.
    from my perspective “non-duality” is “self remembering” with a different vocabulary. This to me is evident but perhaps it is not so simple to others. At the same time self remembering is as diverse as individuality and individual understanding. So if the words help then good the effort remains the same. Some might say no this is completely different than what was taught in the Fellowship my experience is different, this still does not mean it is not a different description of Self remembering. It is your experience and understanding that is different.

    Some quotes from Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

    Just keep in mind the feeling ‘I am’, merge in it, till your mind and feeling become one. By repeated attempts you will stumble on the right balance of attention and affection and your mind will be firmly established in the thought-feeling ‘I am’. Whatever you think, say, or do, this sense of immutable and affectionate being remains as the ever-present background of the mind.

    To know what you are you must first investigate and know what you are not. And to know what you are not you must watch yourself carefully, rejecting all that does not necessarily go with the basic fact: ‘I am’. … Separate consistently and perseveringly the ‘I am’ from ‘this’ or ‘that’, and try to feel what it means to be, just to be, without being ‘this’ or ‘that’.

    Give up all questions except one: ‘Who am I’? After all, the only fact you are sure of is that you are. The ‘I am’ is certain. The ‘I am this’ is not. Struggle to find out what you are in reality.

    Cling to one thing, that matters, hold on to ‘I am’ and let go all else. This is sadhana. In realization there is nothing to hold on to and nothing to forget. Everything is known, nothing is remembered.


  484. I find it quite amazing what people tell me during a sincere and deep conversation when I manage to ask them difficult questions. It takes time to “get to that place” through the “let’s not talk about this subject again”, “let’s be in the moment”, “I don’t want to talk about it” etc.

    But if we get to the point people voice such believes that it often leaves me in awe. I don’t know how to reply to them. EVen though after reading this blog I am much more equipped with answers during these “personal debates” I wish I was more effective when I have an opportunity to open someone’s eyes…

    Yesterday I could not help my fellow RB’s boy to see what is wrong with his thinking. He was so deep in that world of suffering, “service”, using the pain etc., that it almost made me worried that I do not suffer. He was so convinced that if he will escape this painful “service” – he will fall asleep, fall in chaos, lose an amazing opportunity to be close to such an evil and powerful guy.

    I remembered the words of Dave Archer describing his experience with Alex Horn “I was attracted to him as certain small birds are attracted to the crocodile’s teeth…”


  485. AS difficult as it may be to read it is important to repeat the same “facts” over and over as fellowship Members who may just begin to read the blog need to hear the same facts and have information. My own attitudes have changed significantly since beginning this activity. I did not have any real idea of how the Fellowship had developed in the last 20 years and the incredible inner core of corruption surrounding Robert Burton and his abuse of his own students financially, emotionally and sexually was something I needed to hear over and over again.

    There is a group on the Greater Fellowship just for Former members and currant members stories. Few have bothered to copy their post’s to this alternative site. Perhaps someone should just take it on themselves to nominate and elect themselves a blog editor and start and archive for easier accessibility. I joined the blog around page 10 . I did skim through the past post’s but as the blog continues to move on the denying force to going back to the beginning increases.

    I am not particularly detailed oriented so I am not a good editor.
    There are some things worth saving.


  486. on July 27, 2007 at 3:38 pm wake up little suzy wake up

    Meditation, self remembering, being in the moment; the sequence; it’s all the same thing.

    Emotional maturity does grow from observing where we’re at in situations that come up in our lives; and I believe emotional maturity is one of the keys to spiritual growth.

    A meditation practice of some kind does seem to make our lives healthier in many ways, physically, mentally and emotionally. And there seems to be many ways to ‘quiet ones mind’.

    I would rather liken it to changing ones focus. Because in practicing some kind of ‘being here’ we are able to be present to our selves. Otherwise there seems to be a lot of chaos going on internally.

    I think arguing about what works for each of us is like having an argument about politics or religion. What works for one person doesn’t necessarily work for another. This really has nothing to do with spiritual growth.

    For me the problems in the Fellowship are ones of abuse of power, which in turn creates victims. When a person is victimized they lose their energy and their ability to focus. Confusion reigns. It is impossible to grow spiritually in an environment like this. And this abuse of power it not only detrimental to ones spiritual growth but ones emotional health.

    Real teachers are not interested in creating victims.


  487. What important for the current students is to open their eyes to the fact Robert is not a good man, he is an evil man. If people knew about his real nature, his activities and then made their choice to stay or not – there will be still a group of his followers but much smaller group.

    People like my friend who thinks he needs a teacher to put him down, destroy what he builds just to make him overcome it and become stronger, to be next to a powerful and ruthless person – will stay.

    But those who stay because they believe that Robert can do no wrong, loving and humble servant of higher forces, they will be very disappointed to wake up to a reality.

    If prospective students were told that they are about to join Robert’s school (and not the 4th way school), who is a very powerful person and a perverted gay with love to luxury; that they are going to pay not 10% of their income but much more, they will have to spend a fortune on teaching payments, events, auctions, gifts, to support his lavish appetites; that if they are young handsome looking men they will be asked to serve Robert’s sexual needs regardless of their relationships, that they will be demanded to give up their will for the will of Robert and give up their common sense and morality, their careers, families, children, love and more. Then people still will join, but at least they will know what they are signing up for!


  488. 471 More history needed?

    RB…the complete man!?

    It’s amazing how fucked up he is regarding women. I think back to all the “RB” observations I made from 74-85 in relation to women and I can’t see anything “real” except his misogyny. To RB women are necessary inconveniences. Necessary,
    in that they are money machines, and they keep some of the men around so he can “pluck the fruit”.

    I think it’s amazing, not counting the abuse of me, that women can find justification to stay in a situation that is so absurdly abusive to them and their children. It’s like domestic abuse by proxy, only RB’s shitting on EVERYONE, and everyone clasps their hands in front, does the little RB “nod and tilt” humility act and say “yes sir, please sir, abuse me just a bit more”.

    If earth is a pain factory, it because we are our own “owner and foreman” running the shop of pain.


  489. that should be:

    “I think it’s amazing, not counting the abuse of men” (although “me” works too).


  490. on July 27, 2007 at 4:31 pm Crouching Tiger

    To Ames, 474.

    I can’t say if any or all these researchers are on salary. I have never been offered anything for my contributions, so my first guess would be that it’s voluntary. You could get recompensed for books bought, but I started buying them with my own money as I wanted to keep them anyway.

    By no means all the researchers are at Isis (including myself) so the workload is spread around members at other centres too. At the time of my peak involvement, I was spending 12-15 hours per week on it – again not using the ‘wordsearch’ method – and the events were coming thick and fast… sometimes as many as 4/5 per week with a 2-5 day turnaround.

    I felt I really wanted to understand what the tradition I investigated meant by terms like ‘Imagination’ or the ‘Passions’ or ‘Repentance etc.., so personally, I found it very beneficial. But the distinct preference for the epigram rather than the long quotation or story, ‘soundbites’ if you like… the juggling or omission of contexts, the ‘short thinking’ and straightforward reversals of meaning – irritating at first – became difficult obstacles to surmount. The negative reason that kept me going was Vanity – vanity at hearing one’s research being used by RB as a central quote at an event. But the veneer wears thin with misuse.

    I don’t feel the octave managers at Isis have either the time or understanding to absorb the material they receive. The result is a lot of glittering refinement, but little meat. Like having a lot of canapes but no main course!


  491. I have deep respect for, and almost immediate understanding of, Ames Gilbert’s postings. I have had to have ‘intellectual sparring partners’ like cyclops in my life at present – a Scotsman by surname Laird (Lord) at my local pub- who actually makes sure that my high states do not need ‘scraping of the ceiling’ -and a new-found and an ‘in your face’ new friend called Lucy (Female of Luke – meaning ‘light’), another solar-martial with problems that I can help with (if you read W B Yeats – ‘The People’ – “The drunkards, pilferers of public funds, all the unruly crowd I had chased away” – I can refer that to an earlier stage of my evolution – I am now off unnecessary state benefits and my former heavy drinking is under control).

    If you want to know about C influence’s field of influence, kindly read “Theory of Conscious Harmony” where Collin refers to how present-day films are showing the way to understanding. The film for my motivation is “Return of the Jedi” – I must meet my ‘father’ for the final battle (can you remember how when Luke Skywalker takes off Darth Vader’s mask, he finds a flagellated penis of a head (too much buggering around with the ‘dark side of the force’).

    Blake mentions the way of the sword (of illumination going up) when he states in ‘Jerusalem’:-

    “Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand”

    The battle is with one’s own limitations and features and when won, WILL arrives to take care of the ‘conscious aspects’.

    In my tutor/facilitating career role, I explain by sketching, explain the process then stand aside to let the students enjoy the struggle with their limitations and success – NO SURPRESSION. and I believe teaching is for me one of the most satisfying professions – seeing others succeed with their chosen aims.

    I would actually invite questions – not just ‘sparring’ cyclops-like. Yours truly………………………..Nigel.


  492. I think you’ll have to agree that this says it all:


  493. Another film – ‘Highlander’ – “There can be only one”

    When I was hypo-manic one night, and before walking around Exeter where there were people by the hundreds out for a stroll, one bright spark after I mentioned that phrase, added on the end – SPERM. Everyone laughed, including me, but it’s true. Only the champion seed can impregnate causing conception and the new child.

    Love to you all……………………………….Nigel (He who lives by the sword – it is the WAY – not ‘naughty-naughty, thou shall not!).


  494. 488

    “Only the champion seed can impregnate causing conception and the new child.”

    or dumb, blind luck.


  495. To Unoanimo #465:

    Thank you for responding to Nick Spaulding’s horrific and heartless post #457. It represents the typical damage control, lack of conscience and lying that is so characteristic of the Fellowship.


  496. 490

    It’s also very possible that it was a directed and verbatim quote sent through RB, through one of his flying monkeys.


  497. Dear Bruce

    “It is your FATE, Luke Skywalker” – not LUCK.

    However, I digress. I thought you might want to see, if the FOF is a school of Love, does this apply to it’s leader?:-

    “Love…
    …vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up;

    Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

    Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the TRUTH.

    (1 Corinthians, 13)

    Actually, Bruce, I don’t want an argument. How about Richard Branson’s delightful little entrepreneurial book:-

    “SCREW IT, LET’S DO IT!”


  498. 492

    No argument, just another possibility.


  499. RE: 465

    ~~Nickolas,

    ~I truly cannot find the appropriate words to describe the ~utter heartless-ness of this posting; …

    Dear unoanimo,

    You give _ick S. too much credit. He, like those others at the ‘top’, have lost the ability for independent thought and are slaves to the master.

    ‘One Ring to rule them all, …… and in the darkness bind them’


  500. Re: #443 unoanimo

    I try to think before I write, and be as honest as possible; but I also try not to overthink my words out of fear that someone like you will attack me.

    I’ve noted from the beginning that you tend to play the critic role here (think restaurant critic, movie reviewer…). This is a safer and less vulnerable position than the one I have staked out. As you continue to presume this role as spokesperson / critic / influence leader for the blog community, keep in mind you actually have very little “skin in the game” here.

    On the other hand, most people, including you, know who I am and can easily see what I stand for. Some readers here have known me for several decades. I’ll take my chances on how they view my integrity and credibility. At this particular juncture, I’d rather just speak from the heart. I’d rather be honest about the possibility I’m lying to myself than be dishonest about the inner confusion and contradictions that come with moving beyond the FOF phase of my life. Since many of these contradictions directly or indirectly relate to Robert Burton, it feels like an important step in my own growth to acknowledge them out in the open, rather than leave them buried. And since many current members are also struggling with these mixed feelings of affection and fear, gratitude and resentment, maybe my words will help someone else in ways that you cannot relate to.

    In response to your specific criticism, let’s just let the reader be the judge, shall we? What I’ve written already addresses what you are questioning, so maybe you just need to pay a little more attention before getting so wrapped up in your own brilliance.

    That said, hey, I like what you write most of the time and the creativity you offer. It’s just that I’m not going to allow you to bully me. I understand why you are passionate about RB’s war crimes but you may want to be careful not to turn into what you hate.

    All the best,
    Joseph G


  501. Dear Alice E: ~#400

    “What are your methods for getting higher states, have you ever had experiences of higher centres, or real I, and if so, how did you obtain them?”

    You will observe that it is difficult for others to speak of this. Yet, we all allowed Robert Burton to speak at length about this topic from his limited experience and understanding, and we bought it. Look at where it has led us…orgies, the sequence, falsifying information, and a sea of pain. We must learn to articulate our ‘higher’ states or we are subject to how others less ethical describe them for us.

    Objectively speaking, being present is an illusion. By the time we ‘experience’ the present through all the numerous channels of our nerves and neurons that ‘moment’ has passed onto another. By attempting to be present, we are in fact chasing the moment. So the concept of ‘being present’ as the Fellowship of Friends promotes it as an end in itself is unobtainable. That’s job security for Robert Burton.

    Here’s how I experience my ‘higher centers’ or in reverence to my dear friend Yesri Baba, my ‘wonderfulness’. (I am not going to quote a book to do this.) They complete me…as love completes us…as making love completes us.

    On the other hand, infra sex, or as Robert Burton calls it, ‘divine presence’ is only a taste of that wonderfulness, a fleeting pleasure that is designed to keep various species propagating and evolving on the physical plane only. Apparently Viagra is Robert’s drug of choice to prolong his chosen style of ‘presence’. So be it.

    When you have an aim, and you make efforts to achieve that aim, your wonderfulness will kick in to help you. It requires patience, maturity, and self-awareness to recognize it. You will experience it as sudden intuition, insight, or epiphany…a ‘completion of some kind’, containing both intense thought and intense feeling. For me it isn’t haphazard, it is only in relation to completing an aim or soul struggle. (The ultimate completion is death, merging with the Absolute, for which you will need every nano speck of your wonderfulness to propel you.) Nor is it prolonged, lest I tire of it. And I have a family to feed. I still need to “chop wood and carry water”. Such is life. Doesn’t the soul crave harmony, balance and completion?

    So Alice E., what is your aim?

    ************

    with malice toward none ~#453

    “Now we have the sequence which starts to control imagination.”

    There is a big difference between imagination, something we parents strive to cultivate in our children, and one’s imaginary picture of oneself, which I believe is the denying force to evolution that Gurdjieff and Ouspensky were talking about. If you truly want to evolve, you will need to be creative and use your imagination not fight against it. You must fight against the imaginary picture of yourself. After many years in the Fellowship of Friends, that imaginary picture of yourself will include yourself as a ‘student’.

    For me, the sequence would be useful for about one lunar cycle, and then I would put it back in my tool bag and choose another tool, like practicing random acts of kindness for one lunar cycle, then I’d switch again. New moon=time for new tools.

    The harsh truth is that the sequence is designed to control your critical thinking. It inhibits ‘long thoughts’. It inhibits you creatively imagining how your life could be different or better. It reinforces the staus quo. The fourth way is about working on raising awareness in ALL your centers simultaneously. The sequence and tools like it have been used by the way of the monk to silence thinking and instill complete obedience to the master. You allow them to do the thinking for you. This is lop-sided development. Is that what you signed up for?

    Ultimately, it fixes your mind upon a dogma.

    Beware. “Don’t let your dogma eat your karma.” Otherwise you are inheriting the karma of Robert Burton, and then may Allah have mercy on your soul.


  502. 496

    And don’t let your Karma run over your dogma.


  503. In relation to Brian Sisler’s story it would not surprise me in the least that Robert denied to see him and Nick is lying, so would any one of them protecting Robert.

    In a similar desperate situation I called Robert twice from Colombia and wrote him a letter.

    One of his assistants at the time called me back and told me Robert sent the message not to talk to him again for two years.

    I did not hate him for that and worked with it but as I look back what I realize is that the management of individuality in the fellowship works. In as much as each student is required to work only on himself, respond for himself, we all develop a certain strength in our self trust that is then completely mined by the fact that at the same time, no individual is given any authentic, lawful, participation in what happens in the fellowship.

    Yes, there is Girard and Steven and Grant and Linda and all the rest who have a bite in the pie but it is only a bite of a nothingness, only a bite in as much as they can be used. Not a bite for their own worth or sake.

    It is an amazingly clever mechanism because while it powerfully strengthens the sense of “I managed to make something of myself, put myself in good householder, control my emotions to a certain extent”, it at the same time takes away anything one can do with the strength, beauty or understanding that one has amassed by taking away the possibility of fully participating in the community, school or society that one belongs to.

    The extended wings turn into wax and atrophy and students become insecure, depressed, alcoholics.

    The situation is very close to what Bass Ackwards is describing about what he believes works in the fellowship.

    The sequence, self remembering and all the execercises we did were indeed wonderful excercises in as much as they taught us to control ourselves. One of the problem is that they only taught us to control ourselves so that we would not react when faced with the abuses and exploitations. The tools, the excercises are in the long run being used against student’s possibility not only to self determine themselves but to determine the community or society they wish to live for.

    In the American individualistic mentality this is no surprise. It is almost a fair consequence. People are willing to work only for themselves. Consciousness at any price.

    Of course, it does not work but it is very usefull to try to see where its roots are so that we can at least see it with less judgement, look at the process, tie the loose knots so that the picture comes in full.


  504. 498 Elena

    If you had been a solar with a penis he would have taken your call in a heartbeat.


  505. on July 27, 2007 at 6:54 pm Ames Gilbert

    Dear Somebody (#16-449), you said,

    I just talked with a friend who came after “his night on duty” from Robert.
    I heard in his voice zero complaints and a lot of endurance, embracing of suffering. He said: “How else you are going to awaken? This pain is necessary for transformation and awakening. What else did you expect from an esoteric school?”
    Later he added that he understands prostitutes, that they are the closest people to the God on Earth…
    The pain factory which makes me so angry is a preferred influence for him. What could I say? I don’t know…

    Here’s my take. Your friend has truly been “brainwashed”. First, he is has accepted Burton’s subtle but far–reaching reinterpretation of the “Principle of Payment”. Secondly he has overlaid a layer of lunacy over his misunderstanding, by extrapolating payment to the infinite horizon. He imagines that consciousness is priceless in the material sense; this is spiritual materialism. Thirdly, he has been persuaded to abandon his “common sense”, given to protect him against exactly this kind of harm.

    He is ‘buffering’ about prostitutes. Perhaps he has seen too many paintings of Jesus supposedly ‘saving’ Mary Magdalene, where the painter tries to convey her ‘remorse’ and ‘realization of her sins’. Nice paintings, but mere propaganda by the Catholic Church as it seeks to impose a patriarchal religion and actually minimize the Feminine Divine—and the real truth about Mary Magdalene, and her relationship to Jesus. He can get a much more realistic view of prostitutes by objectively looking at certain of his friends beside him as he services Burton.

    Your friend is in deep and dangerous imagination as he goes about arranging his own crucifixion. He has no guidance (proof again that Burton is no fit teacher), no idea of what happens to his pain, no idea of how to ‘transform’ this pain. He is in deep imagination about the nature and purpose of the quality of endurance, what he is putting his unfortunate body through, what the misuse of his sex energy is doing for him, what the results will be. He has no idea what the consequences of Burton (and all his ‘friends’) abusing his trust will be. And Burton neither knows or cares.

    The harvest will be terrible.

    We can’t ‘do’ in the visible world in relation to this. What we can ‘do’, is pray. Here is one form of prayer. Envisage your friend being whole and free. Don’t interfere by imagining the details of how that is to occur, that is beyond us; just imagine the end result, only the end result. Incorporate the happiest feelings in your life, tap into those memories to use as a template. Imagine how happy you two are that he is free, exchanging looks of vitality and freedom, joy. Maybe against the background of your home, or a beautiful place you have both visited. Simply that. Envisage the scene, play it over, play it over again. Do this prayer as often as you can. This is the proper use of imagination, and when you live ‘as if the wish were already fulfilled’, you set in motion powerful energies and attract help to where it is needed.
    (Hope this doesn’t sound too ‘preachy’ or ‘teachy’…)

    With love to you and your friend,
    Ames


  506. WARNING !!
    To young or even youngish men preparing to visit I’s I’s.
    If you upon arriving are met by a group of young men, half of whom appear to be quite effeminite, be advised that your reactions to homosexuality are being probed.
    Once you get to the property…..
    If you are invited to stay behind after any function to meet “the Teacher” Be forewarned that it will more than likely end with him trying to get hold of your meat.
    If you are invited to an intimate dinner, or any small gathering for that matter be advised that the same as above is likely.
    If you are asked if you would like to do security work at night in the galleria….yep same eventuality.
    If you are asked if you would like to take a tour anywhere even to a local restaurant, with “the Teacher” never mind abroad, then again be advised that you will be expected to pay in kind and if you refuse you will be shuttled back immediately and replaced.
    After arriving back you might find yourself being demoted to working with some “octave” that you are less fond of.
    If you find yourself in discussion with any “students” who have been there for a much longer time and it seems that they are trying to find out how you would react if you were to be propositioned by “the teacher” they probably are and you have probably been discussed much more than this before arriving.

    Unless you actually wish to have sex with him then it is best to not get into any situation where you will be alone together.
    It is best to politely refuse and to keep doing this every time, that way you can enjoy the company of your friends without the risk of compromising your own standards or being forced into a situation where you have to leave.

    Perhaps someone can adapt this, add to it or copy it and make it availiable to any young men who are preparing to visit or have just arrived, you will be doing them a great favour.
    ltya. Cy.


  507. #453 with malice toward none

    Hi there. I’ll take your word that we’re friends and reply as a friend would.

    That the sequence may give some results if taught correctly and applied appropriately I will not dispute. However, in point of fact it was never taught correctly, but only inadvertantly and rhetorically.

    Inadvertantly because a key ingredient is understanding which of the 30 work i’s can be used as a practical matter, and this essential knowledge was only shared via email from Asaf in a sort of oh-BTW tone of voice many months after all the numerology and esoteric connectivity was in full swing.

    Rhetorically because the propaganda effort has been overwhelming – really Robert’s main focus – for over a year now.

    On a spiritual and psychological level my view is almost identical to that of Bass Ackwards. The sequence is nothing more nor less than the machine controlling the machine. Let’s face it, we’ve been working that field for years and years and the results just haven’t been good enough, at least not for me, not anymore. But there is a more important issue here.

    Robert Burton was my teacher, is your teacher. In a spiritual group this means two things: that he is able to teach, and that his students can trust him. Both attributes are non-negotiable. You can’t be a teacher if you can’t teach, and you can’t be a 4th way teacher if your students begin to doubt your integrity and even fear you may possibly do them harm.

    Robert has failed on both counts. He has failed. It’s that simple. He has lied about every silly historical connection to support the magnitude of the sequence as an esoteric tool, and he has barely made an effort to actually teach his students how this tool really leads them to raised levels of consciousness. Moreover, and much much worse as has been dramatically demonstrated on this blog, even / especially during the past few days, he has knowingly caused severe psychological damage to many of his students over many many years, and has absolutely no compunction about continuing along this cruel path.

    He is fatally flawed. He is fatally flawed. That’s the bottom line my friend.

    Call me if you want, or write me in private,

    joseph.granados@gmail.com


  508. I was talking to Graduates who thought that the Fellowship of Friends will soon be in the spotlight of reporters who can smell a story. Even tho Graduates is right and its just a stupid little cult, it is epic in the depth of humanity and inhumanity. It cannot stay in the dark forever, the noble sheik’s blog is the crack in the damned.
    ____________
    I live in Oregon where Rajneesh was and he is despised here. His group put salmonella poisoning on a salad bar and tried to kill their neighbors. Disgusting!
    ____________
    To be able to live the lie of the fof one’s soul starts to split up and splinter. We DO become stupider (in a sense – and no offense is meant to anyone in particular – I’m speaking about us all), because our minds, bodies, hearts, souls, spirits grow less and less connected.

    The men and women here on this blog are trying to reach deep inside their souls and transform and heal and clean. But there are those who simply can’t go there. Whalerider described his blog name and some can’t ride that deep. Actually they probably COULD and to have each other for inspiration is good. Knowing that one CAN become whole again (because so-and-so is doing it) is so incredibly hopeful.


  509. Does anyone remember when Gideon had a bunch of very expensive wines stolen from the winery? The assumption was that the thief was a student. At first it was a bit of a shock, but it became justified and accepted by everyone. The reasoning was that the element of crime only reinforced the fact we were in a “real school”. It looks like the same logic is being used more than ever. It doesn’t sound like a “school of love” to me.


  510. Bruce, you crack me up!

    Actually, in this case, if your karma did run over your dogma, and your dogma was ‘released’, that might be a good thing!

    There is always enough dogma to go around… and around…and around.

    Dogma likes to chase its tail.


  511. Drawn in to the conversation once again…

    Re: Nick S….ding (for new readers, Nick introduced me to the fof.)

    I think Nick’s claim to fame out in the real world is that he dropped the boom on Gina Rowlands in the John Cassevetes film A Woman Under the Influence….I’m not kidding. If you watch the film you’ll see that during the dinner scene the sound boom momentarily drops into the top of the frame.
    Now… I think that’s a kinda interesting metaphor for Nick’s current role on the blog.

    Also, re my previous post on page 15:
    Nick was already in the school when he brought me to my first prospective student meeting. Three months, he said. – Ellen Burstyn asked Nick to help me find The Theory of Man’s Possible Evolution. (He had recently done some tech work on a film she directed. …Susan, Ellen also comes from a sordid childhood as her recent biography reveals, so perhaps that’s where she and Nick found some common ground.)

    Anyway…
    When we got the book he swiped the bookmark and WOULD NOT SHOW IT TO ME! I saw him do it and pressed him on it and he wouldn’t reveal what it was. So I stopped asking about it. I thought it must be some kind of publisher’s questionare or other type of spam.

    I loved reading Ouspensky. I called Nick a day or so later and asked what more he knew about all of this… and Ellen’s connection to it. He said he knew of a real ‘school’ and HE would take me to a meeting IF I was seriously interested.

    Well, you guys gotta give me a break here. I mean, Ellen had literally just won the Oscar (1975) AND the Tony award and was helping yours truly with my acting….so, hell, yeah I was interested.! BUT it always stuck with me why Nick didn’t just leave the f…ing fof bookmark in the book and let me find it by myself. Hmmmmmmm
    ……………..
    Re: Thomas E.
    Susan, thanks for your story. I don’t think you ever told me about that although I have vague memories of knowing. I think Thomas may have told me. It’s a blur… however, I read your post from the pov of unknowing eyes and felt the shock of it.

    I spent a full seven years in the fof without knowing a peep about RB’s exploitation of the boys. It was a magical time. I had many dinners with him, drove him and the boys around Manhattan and was generally responsible for his navigation of that great city from 1976 until I moved to London in 1981. I also experienced many, many coincidences and synchronicities
    on my own and in the presence of RB. What to say? …

    Anywhooo-
    I remember the mixed emotional messages I always got from Molly M., Frank A. and many more of the more upstanding and self contained citizens of the fof from that era who ALL KNEW FULL WELL WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH ROBERT! ‘Mature’, ‘responsible’ center directors/traveling teachers types WHO WERE SELF CONTROLLED ENOUGH TO KEEP THEIR MOUTHS SHUT ABOUT IT. They appeared to be your garden variety upper/middle, middle class people , the perfect poster children who looked like they would be OUTRAGED if indeed they knew such information about our leader! In retrospect it was a little club within the club. I wish more of them would speak on the blog.

    When I married Thomas in 1981 I had no idea he had lived this nightmare. Non of my ‘girlfriends’ enlightened me and he never spoke about it. I saw only a hard working super energetic young man.

    So, blogging on it all now I am more and more amazed at the silence. I already wrote about how I Linda T. enlightened me about RB in ’82. (Will reprint it if anyone’s interested. I think it’s on pg.11 or something like that.)

    I also already wrote about how RB DID apologize to Thomas, in my presence, over the phone in 1985. (I think that was my first post on pg. 6)

    I never read the 1989 letter from Thomas until it was posted on the blog a few days ago. I divorced him in 1987. I knew about the letter but could not bear to hear the details. I read it now with the distance of time and life experience.

    I showered Thomas with affection and made love to him all the time when we got married. Knowing what I know now I’m glad I did that. We didn’t have any children but we had three female persan cats that we worshiped. We had lots and lots of kittens. There was a lot of childish joy in our house. We were both rather adventurous and immature but strong enough to haul our asses to Venice where there were no fof students and we could re-group as a couple. We lived a bohemian life with hand to mouth existence selling his art to tourists. We fought a lot. Thomas was obsessed, as many young men are, with his career and was also painfully uneducated. His focus was never on our marriage or our relationship… gradually I only existed in his mind to promote his art. Welp… my ‘external consideration’ accumulator got exhausted and I divorced him and began to do my own art… which continues to this day.

    So… I guess this is a little note to the many ‘sisters’ I never knew I had healing the wounds of our raped lovers.

    I’d love to hear from others.

    love,
    Shelley

    ps. check this out http://www.mensurvivingrape.org


  512. on July 27, 2007 at 8:33 pm Was KathleenW

    I recently remembered another exercise that was brilliant in it’s effectiveness at keeping some things quiet.

    “We are asked to refrain from talking about our spouse.”

    My recollection is that the reason given was that it was mechanical and an aspect of gossip. It seems to me that it may have been directed more at women, but I’m not sure about that part . . . hazy memory about it.


  513. SAM.1, #494:

    “You give _ick S. too much credit. He, like those others at the ‘top’, have lost the ability for independent thought and are slaves to the master.”

    Or, as Girard likened the “student/Robert” relationship in one of his books, as “a dog to its master.” YIKES!


  514. Yes! We women truly know this
    the pain of travelling with men
    too hurt to really help us
    too lost to really hold us
    too young to really love us.
    And to try to be the light
    the loving hand, the steady fire
    the desiring companion
    the bearer of children.
    To feel too shy to ask for truth.
    To deny to absorb to try to transform
    to finally collapse
    under the weight.
    To feel your burning love
    consumed to dust transformed to rust
    like millions particles of iron
    scratching your belly from inside
    while dark forces silently conspire
    around the angel at the hearth.
    Sleep children dears sleep well tonight
    the ogre is still far from your sweet smiles.
    Though reflected in the tear of your silent mother
    is the storm of violent gods from the underside.


  515. on July 27, 2007 at 8:58 pm More history needed?

    Dear All

    What I heard:

    When E and C got their 3 th baby it was a girl. C the father told students that Robert Burton said: Nice for E to have a baby girl, someting for her to keep occupied, like a baby doll.

    Draw you own conclusions.


  516. Since leaving the school a month and a half ago some friends have asked about my story about and why I left. As you will see it has proven difficult to give a brief answer. If this was a “How are you?” type question that didn’t require a significant answer I am sorry and please scroll down as quickly as you can.

    I’m not sure what putting all this down on paper has achieved for me personally… There’s a wish to record this internal revolution, to get things straight somehow.

    If you are a current or former member you will probably recognise a lot of what’s been written. At the moment it looks like a sketch of a certain type of human’s frailty. Perhaps you have been that type of human too…

    Last Summer I had breakfast at the Apollo D’Oro for what I did not know then would be the last time. I sat outside on the deck with a friend and we looked out across our little swathe of the foothills as the last strands of morning mist evaporating into another impossibly yellow California day. I ate as many of Herve’s croissants as I could and we had a funny, warm, affirming conversation. There was only one unpleasant moment: my friend who was prone to sensationalism started telling about an anti-Fellowship article that had just been published, I hadn’t wanted to hear “No, you must read it” he insisted “the guy is smart and absolutely right about some things; he went to an open meeting in London last year lead by RT and he said some interesting things about arrogance.” I felt a surge of indignation: how could someone come to one of our meetings under false pretences like that, and then no doubt distort everything to fit his agenda? It felt like a betrayal. I imagined the writer; he would be a sort of pale grey colour and slightly rat-like, someone who made a living by undermining and demeaning the things that other people loved…No I wouldn’t read his article.

    After a while we were joined by B who had just been reading the article too, he was shaking his head and saying “This is serious, this is really serious”. No it’s not I said to myself, why trouble yourself, don’t even think about it, and I had hoped we could change the subject.

    Before I said good bye my friend he squeezed a copy of the article into my bag. I didn’t read it until the 28th of May this year and by then it was too late anyway.

    The Background
    That August I had no inkling that I would leave the school, it was the most precious, most sacred place in my life and there was no question of departing. I had joined 22 years earlier, had effectively dropped out of university, had put no energy into developing a career, my only ambition was to support the esoteric heart of the school, to communicate my conviction to others. I was penniless and all my friends were members. Every Summer I would spend a month at Isis visiting inspirational friends and trying to fill in gaps in my understanding of the work and Robert’s teaching.

    I had always considered myself a sceptical person as far as ideas were concerned. I had been expelled from Christian Sunday School at the age of five for loudly disbelieving the stories, and despite wishing desperately to believe in God I had never found anyone who could convince me of the existence of anything supernatural. When I was twenty someone gave me an article about quantum physics which seemed to prove that other dimensions existed. I was awestruck; could it be that the seeds of those religions and mysticisms which I had despised before lay within the folds of these other dimensions? A few weeks later a student POL showed me In Search of the Miraculous; its rightness seemed impossible to dispute.

    Until I was 18 I had been at boarding school. It was a hellish experience. I was bullied, the boys would spit and jeer at me, they would trip me up and kick me and laugh when I cried, and they even beat me up once. Often the girls would not talk to me so as not to be infected by my unpopularity, and years stretched by without friends. I was terrible at sport and good at poetry; I didn’t swear, wept constantly, had spots and was despised. At university I had my first taste of peace: I just read and read and read falling in love with dead writers and the productions that had emerged from their tormented lives.

    Once in the school I discovered that my love of literature had been my Magnetic Centre, Other students seemed to actually like me, I was told I was a King of Hearts which was an acceptable thing. People hugged me and I gradually learned to hug them back. I threw myself totally into this new paradise. Instead of studying for college, I did Second and Third Line work, I studied the workbooks, wrestled with ideas I didn’t understand begged other students to help me understand, to help me Verify. When I couldn’t Verify something I learned how to Suspend my Disbelief.

    When I failed my degree my Life family went into a panic. Unbeknownst to me they launched an investigation into the Fellowship with the help of another family who’s child Anne Rodney had been abducted from the School and de-programmed by an experienced anti-cultist.

    I remember the day that my Uncle confronted me with his findings. He had obtained a huge stack of newspaper articles about the Fellowship and when he gave them to me with his hands were shaking and his face was red. He told me that Robert Burton was a charlatan and that I had been taken in hand by the Devil. I looked at him trembling there, so full of Negativity, and said to myself “He’s a fanatic, a Christian zealot, this is an inquisition” The first article on the stack was about a girl who had cancer, apparently Robert had told her that she must pay her teaching payments anyway and if she didn’t she would lose the School and go to Hell… The article didn’t touch me. My happiness and my conviction were unswerving.

    The challenge of the Sequence
    Twenty years later the Sequence emerged; it was heralded as ‘the answer’ the ultimate tool that would bring us all to consciousness. I was accustomed to my Lower Self resisting Robert’s idea’s, it would try to call them “absurd” and “useless” and it was difficult not to be able to substantiate them by going to a workbook. Instead I was forced to struggle to convince myself… or find someone else to convince me to the contrary.

    I felt quite grateful to Robert. He seemed to like me in his way. Sometimes he would buy tickets for me to come to Isis, and invite me to come to events without paying. Occasionally he would send encouraging messages and he seemed to wish me to move to Isis.

    I wanted desperately to prove that Robert’s tool was not “a weak minded invention” as my Lower Self proposed “a vain-glory in which he was revelling simply because it was his own creation;” that he was not “wrong” as he had been with his predictions of apocalyptic events…

    After repeatedly questioning other students who applauded the tool, and remaining unconvinced, I eventually willed myself to Separate from such thoughts as they clearly did not lead anywhere; and to focus instead on my own Work and my own Presence. After all what could be lost by entrusting my awakening to Robert… I was not yet conscious, and as the years had worn by my initial optimism about my chances had proven naive to say the least.

    At that time (and now too) I could say that I was ‘in love with Awakening’. Four years earlier after a final crushing disillusionment with relationships the entirety of my longing had transferred itself to the pursuit of consciousness. But again this was proving a path of heartache; during the day the constant numbing pain in my chest which I had normally acquainted with the pain of a failing relationship, now seemed to be connected to the feeling that I was ‘not doing enough’ in the Work. Even though I would immediately attempt to transform this Self Deprecation into a ‘Sequence’ the sadness endured and was exacerbated by the measurable failures at doing it. At night I would go to bed heavy hearted because I felt had not done enough Sequences; in the morning I would wake up and begin again, promising myself that I would do better, that today was a new day, that there were new chances.

    I was the Centre Director and spent every minute of my free time engaged in Fellowship projects. At the beginning of this role I had hoped that I would be able to bring greater emotionality to the centre; I had hoped that former directors were being overly rigid about the instructions they were receiving from Isis, and that Robert didn’t really want meetings to be as dry and rigid as they had become. In fact the guidelines and materials emerging from Isis turned out to be even more sterile than I had imagined.

    As often as I could I read the Thoughts (transcripts of Robert’s meetings) and attended at least two meetings a week. Time and time again Robert stated that if we repeated these six words and ‘did’ what they asked we would at the end experience ‘divine Presence’. He also emphatically and repeatedly stated that the Lower Self (described also as the King of Clubs, a crocodile and various other monstrosities) was what prevented us from doing it.

    Yet when I tried to use the tool it ended nowhere in particular. Even when I did manage to complete a sequence or two it did not bring me to what the Fourth Way called Higher Centres. It seemed like rather cumbersome way of being Present, but I saw that I was much more often Present, using the old tools. I felt that I must be missing some esoteric point. I regularly called a friend who was one of Robert’s right hand men and the chief researcher, in the hope of revelations. But even he who had daily access to Robert and who orchestrated the research which proved the sequence, could not himself illuminate it; he recommended that I move to Isis and that then everything would then become clear.

    Eventually I explained to myself that the Sequence was a sort of Prayer, a ‘tuning in’ to some heavenly music… Rodney Collin’s music of the spheres perhaps. I hoped that one day it would become a constant background to my life, a beautiful stream into which I could connect and reconnect.

    I would try to do it, if it was not immediately musical or poetic or logical or resonant, surely this was just my own Lower Self rebelling as Robert had insisted it would.

    In November I received a number of shocks at the same time.

    Predictions and Photographs.
    Robert sent a message asking me to apply for a religious visa and to move to Isis, because he predicted that the apocalyptic event of 2006 would actually occur at some point later that month. When called by a friend at Isis about an application I explained that it would be impossible for me to move so quickly. I had a child and no means to do so.

    I sent Robert a note thanking him for his attention and received back the message from him that my King of Clubs and Lower Self were holding me back… and I cared too much about my child and my apartment in Amsterdam. Robert’s diagnosis was not particularly shocking or mortifying to me. I considered what he said and tried to find the truth in it. Yes for sure I was in my Lower Self most of the time, and yes I didn’t hold my work in great esteem, but on the other hand I didn’t feel especially pre-occupied with lower things; I was immersed in the three lines of work and had never given any energy to the acquisition of material property.

    At that moment I couldn’t in all honesty find a way to agree with his diagnosis; if I was going to be struck by the magnitude of his insights that would happen later. In the meantime I trusted that he would forgive any temporary lapse on my part.

    I asked other students what they thought of Robert’s words: some said that I was lucky to have received an invitation and attention from him; some assured me that my work was strong; others said that it must be a blow to receive such a strong, and by implication truthful, photograph.

    During these conversations I registered that other students became very ‘sensitive’ There was a discomfort about the possibility that I might be ‘questioning’ Robert’s diagnosis; no matter how neutrally I presented the story they tended to pre-suppose that I was Negative or resentful about it.

    But I was not upset, just curious.

    During one such conversation a student MJ (who incidentally is very reserved and disarmingly beautiful) told us about a photograph that Robert had given her. She used to wash dishes in the Academy kitchen as often as possible so as to be closer to the heart of things. Her husband (who incidentally was an overtly sensual and extrovert type) saw her struggling through the task and massaged her shoulders in passing. Robert happened to walk through the kitchen, and a few moments later sent back a message to her stating that she was extremely lustful and that he did not want her to work in the Academy anymore.

    Her story was well stunning. We sat there silenced for a moment; we did not allow ourselves to say his photograph was untrue, because we wanted him so much to be meaningful, yet we knew his diagnosis to be impossible, and his treatment of her so unfair.

    I asked myself “Does Robert really know her? Does he really know me?” Quite suddenly a quiet space inside me had opened up in which it was possible to admit that Robert could not see things as they really were; that he could be wrong.

    Expulsions
    Cycling home one day MJ called saying that Charles and Angela Taylor had been asked to leave. Charles was a good friend, we had both joined in London, we had directed the centre in Hungary together. When I made my annual pilgrimage to Isis I would always seek him out, we would wrestle with the ideas and try to come to terms with aspects of Robert’s teachings which seemed obscure. He really wanted to understand, and his mental precision, his integrity, individuality and commitment had always been inspiring.

    I called him immediately. He told me he had been called on Robert’s behalf because he had been attending meetings led by an Advaita teacher named Adyashanti who according to Robert was a “B influence virus” and Charles was asked to either stop seeing him or leave. Charles answered that he did not want to stop and was expelled.

    In the past I would have wept when a friend left, and the friendship would have been over. Now there was just this ‘open’ state… There was no interruption from the usual tapes, there was no analysis of what must have ‘gone wrong’ with Charles’s work, and there was no attempt to justify Robert’s strategy.

    In this new openness it occurred to me that the Fellowship seemed very much like a religion; Charles had been excommunicated. At the same time four other students had been asked to leave and Robert had requested that various people be ‘questioned’ and encouraged to inform on other dissenters. It was an inquisition; I felt surprised by this observation but not upset.

    But I didn’t spend much time on pondering about Robert, what excited me now was the prospect that there might be another ‘way’ to awaken. Charles had said that Adyashanti was definitely Awake and that other so called Advaita teachers were emerging everywhere. They claimed that awakening was a very real possibility for every one.

    Higher Centres revisited
    Charles’ words prompted me to look back at my own success rate in the Work. I had had only two prolonged and miraculous Higher States in the school and both of these had occurred more than 19 years ago. Since then there had been Presence yes: a gentle state which was not coloured by imagination or identification or negativity, I nurtured in it every way I could; it was peace, it was relief, it was sanctuary compared to the panic and strain evoked by the brutal world. I had believed that it would eventually lead to those miraculous states for which I pined, but thus far it had not.

    Being Awake though… having Higher Centres in operation was different from Presence. The first time it had happened for me in the School was about 21 years ago. One day while I was climbing the steps to my office everything sort of reeled inside me, Anna had receded, I could see my hand but it did not feel ‘mine’ anymore. Every footstep, that was taken was extraordinarily meaningful, and powerful and symbolic, all things and movements were connected, every action, every object no matter how mundane was alive and vivid and profound: turning the key in the lock, extending a finger across the keyboard; the dark dustiness of the passage to my room, a piece of litter… all these things were permeated with a kind of glory and a kind of silence.

    Where had Anna been during this experience? I’m not exactly sure. My awareness seemed to have been coming from her but there was none of the usual ‘interference’ there had been absolutely no Negativity and no personal agenda at play; rather there had been total acceptance, total understanding, and all was imbued with this extraordinarily impersonal, yet gloriously powerful and intimate emotion.

    This brief examination revealed two startling things. First of all what we called the Lower Self or the Lower Centres, clearly had absolutely nothing to do with Higher Centres, because once in Higher Centres they insignificant, irrelevant, of an utterly different Dimension, another World…

    We had learned from Robert that ‘Consciousness had degrees’ and I had believed despite my own experiences that there was a gradual progression between the Second State (a characteristic of the Lower Centres) and the Third (a characteristic of Higher Centres). I had believed that if I made the right efforts my Presence would gradually and swell to become a full blown Higher State, to be Consciousness. However in reality this had never happened.

    Presence was clearly just behaviour of the Lower Self, a pleasant one yes, but it was not the Third State and it did not ‘swell’ to become it; Presence was actually part of Sleep; Consciousness was a quantum leap.

    I could envisage that the Second State had degrees if one measured it in terms of the level of Negativity circulating or the amount of Presence. Possibly also Higher centres had their own levels, I wouldn’t know. But clearly the one did not run sequentially into the other.

    From this perspective the Sequence was absurd. Admittedly it was a way of marshalling the Lower Self and of quashing passionate outbursts (the Queen of Hearts) and other undesirable behaviour but it it’s usefulness stopped there. Its stated purpose was to prolong and deepen Presence. Perhaps it did prolong a certain temporal slither of the experience of Presence, but it also severely narrowed my experience of the moment, reducing it into a long, cold, disciplined line.

    Most importantly I remembered that Presence serene though it could be, had not been my ultimate goal; Consciousness was. From this perspective any effort to do something different was simply tightening the grip of a ‘spiritual seeming’ version of Lower Centres.

    I tried to think of an analogy and came up with this: Imagine that you are longing to go swim in the sea, you stand at the water’s edge and then instead of leaping right in, believing that it’s not possible to enter directly, you take six steps parallel to the waters edge, at each step you say something like: Splash, float, cool, refresh, cool, Splashhhhh…, believing that at the end of these steps you will be actually be in the water, but of course you are not… you remain on the hard hot sand, to get in would involve dropping the notion of a prescribed route there, and this would be ‘wrong’ it would be contrary to your teacher’s instructions, so you persist in walking next to the waters for which you long, step, step, step, step, step, step… perhaps you will feel disheartened and defeated and give up in the end, or perhaps you will continue for ever, eternally failing, eternally missing your goal.

    At this point a second radical question presented itself: Was Robert actually living in Consciousness? Based on my experiences of it the Lower Self was so diminished as to be irrelevant… it couldn’t have expressed itself in large terms such as greed, or lust, or fear, or the need to protect and insulate oneself, it would not have required material comfort or impressions because in that state there were no requirements; all impressions were glorious, even litter, and dirt; all were right, all was perfect as it was.

    I knew a fair amount about the ‘behind the scenes Robert’ because I had been in relationships with people in his entourage. Apparently in the 80’s and nineties he had been frequently depressed and negative, his energy was often very heavy. His state had dramatically changed when ‘the Russians’ joined his entourage; he had become electrified and invigorated and emerged from seclusion to begin teaching and travelling on a tremendous scale.

    At the same time more and more items were arriving from my past and placing themselves in the foreground. First hand reports of his anger and his jealousy, his irrational rages, and punishments and banishments, orgies with young men who did not want them… Birthday treats of 60 men… and so on; they all arrived and settled in full view. The first time I heard these things I had not flinched; I had simply admitted that I did not understand them and re-focussed on ‘my own’ Work so as not to be pulled down by possible unpleasantness. But this time I did not change the subject…

    It wasn’t that I was revelling in indignation or anything, in fact at the time, there was only one emerging memory that really hurt. It was the fact that Robert had said that he did not enjoy the meetings and the teaching events, and that he only did them so that he could be with the boys…

    I did not feel much blame towards Robert for his behaviour. Was it possible that I had in some way been supporting it? When Robert expressed an interest in owls I would go out and buy an owl card for him, and send him owl quotations; I had wanted to attract his attention, had believed that if I had more exposure to him I would be more likely to awaken. I had arranged introductions of young men to him…

    Robert’s assistants were very good at anticipating his needs, I knew because I had been married to two of them. The whole of his life was organised for maximum smoothness and efficiency. Perhaps they anticipated his sexual needs as well; probably to please him they devised new logistical methods to improve everything…

    What really moved me now was the excitement of recovering Higher Centres. I immediately went out and bought an Adyashanti book. I liked it, the writer seemed Awake and informed and kind and clean; but the book was hard to understand… on this first reading I raced through it trying to find what he recommended us to do, he spoke about Higher Centres which he called ‘Oneness’, but he didn’t tell me how to get there… I wanted some concrete lessons, a formula, help.

    TH and Truthfulness
    At the end of November a newer student called me. TH was 19 and had joined six weeks earlier after reading In Search of the Miraculous. His mother was friends with a student who had given the book to him.

    He said that something very strange had happened to him and he wanted to talk about it so I invited him over.

    For about two weeks he would visit me daily. I’m not sure how to present the episode and do it justice. It shook up everything; it was brilliant, and sad.

    He asked me how he had appeared at the centre dinner two evenings earlier. The conversation went like this:
    “Did I behave normally?”
    “Yes”
    “Oh… It was very difficult to hold myself together, I feel as if I will fall apart at any moment”
    “Why?”
    “I was sitting on the train, and ‘TH’ disappeared”
    “What does it feel like?”
    “Now my consciousness is everywhere, some times it is outside my body looking at it from a different spot, and sometimes it is as big as the room or as a field, or as an ocean”
    “Is it nice?”
    “Yes, but I am surprised that I can still do things like walking and talking and just living, and I’m afraid that soon I won’t be able to, I have not been able to sleep”
    “How long has this been going on?”
    “Three days”
    “How did it start?”
    “I was doing the sequence”
    “How long had you been doing it for?”
    “About two days.”

    As an Older Student I felt obliged to come up with some kind of explanation, some kind of advice. But I found myself quite unable to speak. I realised that he had gone quite beyond the realms on which I could theorize. After a long pause he asked me another question:

    “Do you think everyone wants to Wake Up?”

    “No of course not” I began answering “only very few people have magnetic centres… even then the magnetic centre would have to be mature enough. Believe me I am always on the look out for magnetic centres but in all my years of interacting with many, many different Life people I have never…”

    I suddenly noticed my voice. It sounded awful, my words hollow and insubstantial, I just stopped speaking. After another pause I asked him “What do you think?” He answered:

    “Everyone longs to wake up, they just don’t call it that. They long for better cars, or for more money, or for varieties of sexual experience, for security, or for awakening… it’s all the same”

    His words were not like mine. They had a profound ‘truth’ about them, they did not carry the charisma of conviction, and they revealed mine to be just shallow opinions; ideas which I been able to believe in and which I had just repeated and repeated and repeated.

    As he spoke I kept remembering Rumi poems; they seemed so relevant. Eventually I recited one and as the exquisite words emerged I felt almost as if in some strange way I was lying again. At the end he said quietly “Do you really understand the poem?”

    I asked him another question. “At meetings, you had been asking about the 2nd conscious shock, what does it mean to you now?”

    “It’s the heart” he answered.

    When he left I was in a state of shock. It seemed that this boy had Woken Up, but the implications of this were phenomenal… I couldn’t begin to comprehend them… and he had only been in the School for six weeks…

    The next day he came by again. I asked him what he had been doing and he said “de-contracting my heart”. I did not know what he meant but it sounded very familiar; just like in fact something that Adyashanti would say. Over the next few became clear that although he had never read Adyashanti he was what Adyashanti described, and other things.

    I learned that he was someone who had a lot of ‘will power’, in the past he would go climbing in the mountains without equipment, and sleep without a tent in the snow. And he had been unusually persistent with the Sequence. Eventually I asked him if he thought Will was necessary for awakening and after a pause, he said:
    “No. What you call Will is not Will for me. I could do those things because I wanted to, for other people they would be difficult because they do not want to do them.”

    “The Will exercises about eating from the Fellowship were interesting for a while” he said and smiled “but not necessary”

    “Ouspensky was mistaken about Will and many other things”

    I asked him about Robert Burton.
    “Something is very wrong with him” he said.

    On another occasion he asked me “Is it necessary to have a Teacher?”
    I began answering him with the usual tapes about needing someone who had already escaped to show one the way out… when again I was forced to stop myself in disgust at what was revealed to be my ‘lying’. After a while I admitted that I didn’t know. He said that perhaps different teachers were necessary.

    Although he never at any point suggested that he was special or important, in fact he was adamant to the contrary, it did emerge that he had developed a number of ‘supernatural’ powers: he could see vast distances and ‘read’ people. He could also read and assimilate huge amounts of information in short periods of time. He knew or rather was things that Ouspensky and Colin had pointed at and could refer back to exact pages in their texts.

    Yet the experience was becoming increasingly difficult for him.

    When told him that I wished I could be awake as he was, he told me that I was awake, even if I couldn’t see it. He also said that he would never wish what he had on anyone; sometimes it was wonderful but sometimes it was terrible and it paralysed him with fear.

    Over the two weeks he did in fact disintegrate outwardly. He stopped washing and gave away his money, his telephone and as many of his clothes as possible to poor people. He began running very long distances sometimes 50 km at a go. Although it was winter he would plunge in to canals, and he was at times frantically afraid of the experiences that were overwhelming him.

    Strangely I was never afraid or repulsed by him, on the contrary I felt the most profound gratitude and awe; between bouts of fear he was so very pure and in his reflection I saw how very impure I had become.

    Two Sundays later a stranger called me who had been sheltering TH after he had dragged himself out of a river. They asked me to come and pick him up from a spot fifty kilometres outside the city. When I couldn’t find him, I became very worried and called M, the student friend of his mother. I asked her if he had any history of mental illness. She told me absolutely not, and that he had been in every sense a normal teenager, albeit rather independent. I called his parents and ask them to help. Later that night he arrived on my doorstep stricken with terror. The next day he was taken away.

    The Sequence, my Directorship, and Self Deprecation cease
    I stopped trying to do the Sequence… Presence continued to arise, bursting through swathes of Imagination and Identification like balm.
    All Self Deprecation ceased.

    Christmas with the centre was very odd. I was the centre director but I had stopped believing in anything that was being said. I saw people talking about their verifications and knew that they, as I had, were actually talking about their beliefs. I saw students quoting poetry from Conscious Beings instead of expressing their own beings, I heard them using work language to fortify frailties and inconsistencies in their own limited understanding, but I couldn’t say anything. I saw them using classifications such as Body Types and Centre of Gravity to avoid experiencing more fully the wholeness that was before them. I saw all these things in myself of course too, but bit by bit these tendencies were dropping away in me, not because of any new found virtuousness or strength, but because I didn’t want them anymore. I had seen my lies and it was repulsive to reproduce them.

    The most painful times were meetings. The quotations that we were forced to read were appalling. I allowed myself to register that exquisite pieces of poetry were in fact being butchered and moulded to fit the lengthy interpretations which followed them. The constant theme was the necessity of doing the Sequence. At the end of the Sequence was Divine Presence. If we did not do the Sequence we were in the grip of some scaly many toothed monster, images of which were projected onto a wall simultaneously. There were so many words to understand, so many complicated mental connections, so much Disbelief to Suspend, so much failure to separate from. The form was in itself confounding our attempts to simply be. Why couldn’t our teacher see this?

    In January a friend in the Council called on behalf of Asaf. He had heard rumours about TH and wanted to make sure that there was no danger of the Fellowship being sued. I reassured him, but was struck by the implicit assumption that I would not find this question tasteless and cold. For Theo’s parents his apparent madness was a tragedy akin to death: their beloved son who had been musical, bright, self-disciplined, energetic and with a wealth of potentials ahead of him had been reduced to a silent almost vegetable existence.

    A week later I resigned as director.

    Preventative dismissal
    Being free of the Director’s work load was wonderful. My domestic life was in a shambles there were business letters that had gone unanswered, and bills that had been accumulating interest for the entire duration of my directorship, there simply hadn’t been time. I took a rest from meetings for a while.

    Concern for TH plunged me into reading materials that I had previously spurned as A and B Influence. I wanted to understand the relationship between what seemed clearly an Awakening and what also at least outwardly had deteriorated into madness. I read about Kundalini about Meher Baba’s Masts, about supernatural powers and about psychosis. I wasn’t able to come to any conclusions. TH became mostly silent and he stopped eating or washing without assistance. But in his lucid times he had never focussed on ‘himself’, there was no Narcissism, no hallucinations, no angels, no visions; for him it seemed the brilliance of the Real had been just too much.

    My sister called me from Isis. She was worried; apparently two of my friends from Amsterdam had called her to find out where I was. As I told her about my new understandings and felt her stiffen.

    I started to receive other calls from friends at Isis. They had heard that I was “having a difficult time”, I tried to explain that it wasn’t difficult but exciting. I tried to explain about the Sequence and was told that without doubt it was my King of Clubs and my Lower Centres that were resisting it. One person photographed me for using the word “utterly”; another sent me an exquisite poem from Rumi about not being troubled by doubt; but I wasn’t “troubled” I felt liberated.

    Another Student asked me why I took the Sequence so seriously and that Robert would be sure to have another phase sooner or later. I answered that Robert was my Teacher and that he expected his teachings to be taken seriously, why else would he have a school?

    They asked me how I felt about him and I answered that based on my own experiences of Higher Centres it seemed unlikely that he was living in them. Talking about Robert was challenging; I wondered if they would revere him so if they knew how he manipulated his entourage into compliance, if they knew how Negative he was in private. When I tried to describe this their voices became calm… and removed… it was as if somehow they equated me with the outrageous behaviour I was describing; as if I was somehow sentencing myself as dismissible.

    “It is clear” one person said, “That Robert is no longer your Teacher, why don’t you just leave?” I was stunned at first by this, it was so brutal: how could I “just leave”; for 23 years Robert had told us that the Fellowship was our real family. My friends were all members… and we had an exercise not to speak to ex-students.

    I began to wonder about Conscience. Ouspensky and Gurdjief had said that it was imperative part of Awakening, yet Robert had never spoken about it. Why? In the past I had always imagined that he considered us not ready for the topic, perhaps it was too ‘advanced’; perhaps we were too much under Feminine Dominance to understand it correctly.
    Now it struck me that Robert was the one who had coined this term. It wasn’t in the workbooks. Other systems spoke of morality or socio-cultural conditioning. But they had never suggested that going beyond these things meant abdicating from goodness and kindness and helpfulness and consideration, these were different, they were not disposable. Perhaps Robert had quietly and gently become the predator that Gurdjief had warned about in those who didn’t develop conscience? And perhaps we had helped him.

    But no matter what new picture of Robert was taking shape in me, it was a new excitement about Awakening that was moving me.

    One day as I walked through the park chatting with an erstwhile friend I sense the greenness of the place gently pressing itself into view. An avenue of trees lining up in the corner of my eye… a fragrance, an attendant peacefulness…

    I heard my friend saying “But don’t you find the thirty work ‘I’s useful at all? I mean take the ‘I’ ‘Walk’ doesn’t it help you to be Present now…”. I looked at her quizzically and without irony answer “No, the word ‘walk’ is not particularly magical to me.”

    In that moment I realized that I had never ‘done’ Presence, it had always just ‘arisen’. I had never tried, the trying would come a split second after, Presence would be recognised and named and called my own and there would be a scrambling to prolong… which would obliterate it utterly.

    Meetings with more remarkable men
    One Saturday I bought a book called the Open Secret by an English Advaita teacher called Tony Parsons. It was short and I read it in one sitting. It was perfect; he described his first experience of Higher Centres, he called it ‘being realised in oneness’; It was joy, peace silence, complete aliveness, total acceptance, unconditional love. He explained that he knew immediately that he had done nothing to deserve this state and that it had simply happened to him. Later he had become permanently ‘realised in oneness’. He explained that any ‘teacher’ who claimed that Awakening was a process which needed to be taught by himself and learned by his students, must have his own agenda for doing so.

    When I got home I found his telephone number in England and called him. An answering phone said “Hello this is the home of Clair and Tony Parsons, please leave your message after the tone” after some hesitation (he was a conscious being after all) I left my number. Tony called me back, he had a friendly, ordinary voice.

    I told him that I had experienced ‘oneness’, but that it had not happened again for the last twenty years. I told him that for all this time I had been in a school in which we practiced Presence and strove to Awaken. I asked him why I had not succeeded, and what his secret was, I was desperate… what could I do…?
    Nothing he answered, there is nothing you can do. You can’t find something which is already there. “But why can’t I see it; what is in my way?” When you were a baby he answered, you lived in oneness, but your parents and those around you called you ‘Anna’, they told you you were separate from everything else and eventually you believed them. As soon as you left oneness you felt the pain of separation and longed to return. “But how?” I pleaded, “How can I return?”
    Everyone is longing for oneness he answered, but they project their longing onto other things: cars, money, relationships, being a spiritual seeker… it is the seeker in you which is standing in your way.

    A few weeks later I went to visit my yoga teacher, although she was busy she squeezed me in between two of her classes. I asked her if she was religious in any way. “Yes, I suppose I’m a Christian.” I asked her if she went to church… believed in Jesus and the bible. “Oh no” she answered. Well what do you believe in then? “Love” She answered. What is Love for you I asked. “Interest” she replied.

    In February I received two messages from Robert. In the first he said that it was my King of Clubs and my Lower Self that were resisting the Sequence (this was a similar message to the one he had sent when he heard that it was painful for me that he was having sex with my husband). In the second message he sent me his love.

    Is Robert interested in me? I asked myself, or is he simply attempting to align me, with the minimum possible personal involvement.

    A farewell
    Just before the end of the month I stopped all payments to the Fellowship. I could not bear to pay Robert another penny.

    I did not feel anger towards him; I did not know who he was really. It was as if he had been some type of mirage. My teacher had been a dream, the sum the sum of my projections, my hopes and hopefulness.

    I knew that he was not awake, but could not imagine him to be particularly malevolent: deluded seemed to be a better word, and hadn’t we all supported him in his delusion?

    On May 28th I finally read the Sheik’s first report on the Fellowship. On May 29th I left.

    One of my friends wrote to me and said how could you have left your friends of 23 years? I told her that it is so clear that if there is any leaving to be done it will be they who leave me.

    It has not been as difficult as I imagined. There has not been as much shunning. Those of us who leave now are lucky.

    And what about the work? There’s a certain type of certainty now that nothing can be done. The beautiful things like Presence simply arise, because we want them to; the ugly things I try not to avoid. Occasionally I force myself to read the blog; it is both wonderful and harsh.

    For while I was surprised to hear Robert described as ‘evil’; I maintained the idea that we his students had been equally to blame. But two weeks ago I watched ‘What the Bleep do I know?’ The narrator explained that what we perceive in the present is collected from memories from the past… there’s that moment when you see a Shaman standing on the beach perplexed and looking out across what for him is a vast and empty sea. In reality a fleet of armed ships are looming over his cove; but because has never seen a ship before these are invisible to him…

    And I know that I have been Naïve. Shards of anger cut through my day.

    Consciousness… Oneness, of course is something else. The search for it was the beginning and perhaps the end of all this. Knowing and almost accepting that Anna can do nothing to achieve it has been so very liberating and so very humbling.

    If there is anything to be done I suspect it will have something to do with the heart, with grasping for that fine thread of conscience that might have been lost… and with holding on to it no matter what; with allowing that organ to breathe again, to bound back from poor to pure.


  517. In regard to the question of whether I or others have thought through the consequences of stopping the Madman Robert Burton and his cult The Fellowship of Friends.

    Yes I have.

    Go to the Greater Fellowship and there is often a link to a “School” started by a former FOF member Mervyn Brady. Brady is dead his group continues. The property at Isis and the organization of the Fellowship are already changing to become a shrine to the divinity of Robert Burton.

    Those who have actually made what was B influence into A influence and made a career out of selling awakening, Those loyal members who you worry about are often the exact same individuals who have known and covered up his abuse. They deserve nothing. They have made their choice.
    These are the exact same spiritual whores who will continue the Fellowship after Robert’s death.

    The break up of the Fellowship may cause some sincere seekers to have to exist on their own without the enviorment of a false school. This can only be spiritually good for them.

    I want to introduce a thought. To all that have experienced something uplifting and positive to their development in the Fellowship, consider then that if Robert Burton is not a true Teacher, How did this happen? My answer is that there are and have been true teachers with a higher consciousness in the Fellowship. Individuals who sought to uplift and help their fellow seekers without the title and prerogatives bestowed by The big Bob.

    Who? Thats for you to answer. Old timers will remember Donald MacDonald and Stella. Look for those whose actions and words agreed, who practiced the ideas and did not judge others. Look to the woman who were marginalized by the Great Bobbette.

    Consider the contrast to the moral prostitution of those who mercilessly joined in the crimes of their “teacher” covering up the rapes those who support the misappropriation of funds.

    There is nothing good and noble in the Fellowship to destroy. No one can damage the ideas of the school of “The 4th way” we once supported more than Robert Burton and his inner circle of criminal co-conspirators.

    It is one of the most typical defenses for abuse to attack the victims. This is one victim it will no longer work on.
    Now you request consideration for those who failed in their moral obligation to protect the newer members. You want the victims to worry about the harm to the perpetrators .

    I had great respect for the directors of the San Diego center who were there when I joined in 1973. John Graham and Jan Allen. If I found out that John and Jan knew of Roberts homosexual abuse of his students in 1974 or 75 when Robert asked me to move to the Ranch I would hold them responsible for that.

    I left college and lost my relationship with my wife because of this. The idea that this sacrifice was not for my spiritual development but part of a pattern of abuse in which Robert knowingly and with premeditation developed a “farm” of young man to feed his sexual addiction is painful to the extreme.

    If these center directors and others were part of this conspiracy they deserve to lose all they have stolen in the last 20 or 30 years. They should be punished enough to make some amends to those whose lives have been damaged. I will hazard a guess that Robert being typically self centered has made no provision for his loyal followers in the event of his arrest and conviction for his crimes.


  518. to everyone..
    “thus conscience doth make cowards of us all,
    and thus the native hue of resolution
    is sicklied over with the pale cast of thought.”
    Below is a link to a petition to save some aid workers who have been captured by the taliban and held hostage.

    http://www.avaaz.org/en/honour_the_afghan_code/b.php/?CLICKTRACK

    there is a bigger world than I’s I’s.
    ltya Cy.


  519. Hello ~ Crouching Tiger ~ (485) ~

    You wrote ~

    “I don’t feel the octave managers at Isis have either the time or understanding to absorb the material they receive. The result is a lot of glittering refinement, but little meat. Like having a lot of canapes but no main course!”
    _______________________________________

    This is the ‘normal’ vibration-rate for a cult; also it is partly due to Robert Burton’s automatic, unruled bodytype speed, greed feature and American cultural programming. The Fellowship of Friends is not a conscious school and is moving at the same speed as any institutional organization does, supply and demand is an automatic and feature-feeding force at ISIS, no one there, rightly participating in the Fellowship of Friends can participate by slowing it down through the filters of conscience and consciousness; when this is applied, one fears missing the boat or is simply left behind as someone who cannot keep up, cannot pay enough to run faster on a treadmill on fire.
    ______________________________________________

    Hello, Joseph G ~ (495) ~

    “That said, hey, I like what you write most of the time and the creativity you offer. It’s just that I’m not going to allow you to bully me. I understand why you are passionate about RB’s war crimes but you may want to be careful not to turn into what you hate.”

    “This is a safer and less vulnerable position than the one I have staked out.” (Us and They?)
    _______________________

    Joseph, you’re getting close to what Nicholas posted last night… wow; actually my friend, it is lying to say that you understand the “why” of my passion, after all, understanding has nothing to do with passion, nothing at all and “why” reinforces nothing in me.

    The last quote ~ In my opinion, you are only as automatically vulnerable as you ‘think’ you are to the automatic opinions of others; vulnerability can be a conscious aspect, a beautiful openness that allows that SPACE between two people (or more) to exist, all possibilities to have breathing room; yet, the one you speak of is one of contradiction, passive confrontation and a sort of unintentional fear that is ‘thought’ of as a normal ‘given’ between two people; and on some levels it is a given, though, I cannot go there with you Joseph, I just cannot…

    I do not “hate” anything Joseph and find it July-ish of to assume another’s emotions for themselves so to reinforce one’s being able to write a letter to another (or yourself?), with swervings of the vehicles imagination and anger.

    To assume both my “passion” and “hate”; to conclude me in your heart as such, belonging to such a static category (?) That sounds like someone we all know all too well…
    Yes, I guess you’re right in more ways than one that Robert Burton was your teacher… You’ve inherited his ‘red and green traffic light’ with no yellow light. It is an heirloom your heart would do well to not circulate. (My opinion)

    I want to work with you on this kind of approach, it’s too quick really, too sure; I sense you’re confused and I do not feel I am pretending I know your state or that I am your state, it’s cause, etc…

    If you’ve stopped with the idea of ‘working on yourself’, then I would ask you to please consider your decision to do such in the light of your letter to me…

    Writing me such a reply ~ I know this sort of responding well, (it’s a ‘form’ that I have in my luggage and try and keep an eye on as much as possible) when one cannot resist replying back, giving something to be King of The Blog Mountain; desperate one borrows from imagination and ‘what could be true’ and writes it out as seemingly the right analysis based on a very subjective ‘as a matter of fact’ objective ‘so there’.

    I do not see my posts too far away from others you’ve received this week; take a peripheral view of other responses to you; their sense, not necessarily the literal contents…

    Please do not ‘think’ I am looking at you through a paper towel tube, I am not; it is July and August will be what sledge hammers are to miniature hammers… so, let’s try and stay out of the “hate” and “like” categories, I am simply not there and cannot go there, ever again.

    I believe this blog tool to be a good place to practice being with other, not necessarily being right or wrong while with each other, thats Fellowship of Friends territory;

    the fact that Robert Burton teaches only to hit the bullseye and nothing concerning the self as it’s in the state of aiming, looking at the target, before the arrow is let go, is a very formatory approach to teaching ‘right’ humility, even missing can be conscious. Robert Burton is still an elementary school teacher; if there was anything you guys learned in that school, it was not because of Robert Burton’s direct and wholesome sharing of his ‘hits and misses’, it was your seeing yourself, seeing him, seeing others and being seen and seeing C-Influence.

    And yes, I acknowledge that everything I’ve written to you here may be absolutely wrong, misjudged; yet, I am willing to take the chance at being both an Idiot and a Friend, though not an idiot-friend simultaneously. (And, no, I am not referring to you here).

    Not only do Robert Burton’s students have the chance to graduate from him, they also have a bigger project awaiting afterwards, to graduate from the classroom stigma that every group automatically is possessed with, by the nature and laws of being a group of people; whether it be ‘humanity’ or ‘The Fellowship of Friends’;

    in my opinion, one cannot truly primarily participate in a ‘conscious group’ unless its individual members are conscious individuals first, i.e., “The Fellowship of Being a Conscious Friend”…

    Striving to make individuals conscious through a group conscious effort-triad, a group dynamic is impossible and the wrong triad, unless everyone’s already past the ‘I gotta be ‘little me’ level’, then a group is pretty much moot, is unto itself as it is and is not anything about group-identity or group-dynamics…

    The Fellowship of Friends ‘group’ is simply an automatic happening based upon Robert Burton being a ‘certain something’ that attracts such group satellites…

    Unto itself, like all groups automatically attracted to ‘Saturns in need of reflections in the mirror’, the Fellowship of Friends is not an intentional, conscious group, working as a conscious group, i.e., all “Queen Bees”, so to speak; they are an effect belonging to a cause, a cause that is self interested, not interested in conscious individuals, a meteor belt around a self-personified waist.

    I do not sense you’ve been short changed in the least Joseph; you’re rich, very rich…

    Don’t forget Joseph, I’m food in here too, I have my restaurant critics, regular customers, hecklers, pissed off not coming back hear ever again-ers… Please, don’t keep fooling yourself that there is a ‘You’ and ‘I’, we share this struggle on a level the ego is simply not able to acknowledge… I guess that’s it’s business though.
    _________________________

    Hello ~ Elena ~ (498) ~

    You wrote ~

    “Yes, there is Girard and Steven and Grant and Linda and all the rest who have a bite in the pie but it is only a bite of a nothingness, only a bite in as much as they can be used. Not a bite for their own worth or sake.”
    _______________________________

    It’s curious, actually, those people (and many others) are what the pie’s ingredients consists of… It’s sorta odd isn’t it, that one can be eating one’s own thumb, while admiring the pinky-ring (?).
    ___________________

    Hello Ames ~

    Thank you for contributing that story concerning Brian S.; thank you very much my friend.

    ___________________

    Love to you all


  520. Hello Sheik ~

    YOU OUT THERE?

    Let’s call the letter (cauldron) ~ ‘Res ipsa loquitur’ ~

    (Any other suggestions?)

    Also, please see Post 420 I wrote to you…

    l.t.y.a.


  521. I don’t know for sure but I heard rumor that Brian S. was actually RB’s secretary in the earlier years. Is this true?


  522. 515

    On and off,somewhat, from what I remember. I don’t think on the formal William M/ Anthony P scale of secretary. I could be wrong.


  523. Bruce ~

    What’s your profession… just curious.

    :)


  524. on July 27, 2007 at 10:48 pm Was KathleenW

    509 Laura

    Laura, your poem gave me chills. Thank you.


  525. #513 unoanimo

    “I want to work with you on this kind of approach, it’s too quick really, too sure; I sense you’re confused and I do not feel I am pretending I know your state or that I am your state, it’s cause, etc…” (sic)

    About “working with me”, thanks but no thanks.

    Reason #1: I do not know who you are. That’s where the vulnerability comes in. You like most others here are hiding behind a mask. I’m not.

    Reason #2: Your generally condescending, almost dismissive (or at best avuncular) tone.

    Reason #3: The way you very frequently make value judgements about the personal character and integrity of other people who write here, yet are incredibly sensitive to being slighted yourself.

    Reason #4: The sheer volume of words you produce, and the way these words spin your own predictable themes, frequently with disregard to what others have actually written.

    Reason #5: Your apparent inability to compromise or ever admit you may have been wrong.

    Reason #6: I am not in the market for a teacher, which is how you are posturing.

    Otherwise, thanks for your trouble responding to me. It appears we knew each other once, but my friends are people who emotionally reveal themselves to me as I do to them. Until that happens, let’s not kid ourselves.

    Joseph G


  526. 518

    bookbinder/conservator


  527. Joseph ~

    You Post, with it’s 6 reasons, gives me a whole new perspective on the effects of Robert Burton’s 6-step Sequence.

    Thanks, but no thanks.

    :.0


  528. 500 Ames

    I have wanted to express the same info as in this quote but have waited for the right moment. It never came but then it appears despite me. Ames is more likely to be appreciated here than the garbage picker of Apollo, so thank you Ames. This works as well as The Aloha Cure because the same dynamics are present.

    “We can’t ‘do’ in the visible world in relation to this. What we can ‘do’, is pray. Here is one form of prayer. Envisage your friend being whole and free. Don’t interfere by imagining the details of how that is to occur, that is beyond us; just imagine the end result, only the end result. Incorporate the happiest feelings in your life, tap into those memories to use as a template. Imagine how happy you two are that he is free, exchanging looks of vitality and freedom, joy. Maybe against the background of your home, or a beautiful place you have both visited. Simply that. Envisage the scene, play it over, play it over again. Do this prayer as often as you can. This is the proper use of imagination, and when you live ‘as if the wish were already fulfilled’, you set in motion powerful energies and attract help to where it is needed.
    (Hope this doesn’t sound too ‘preachy’ or ‘teachy’…)

    With love to you and your friend,
    Ames”
    p.s. I might mention that the source of this info was stated on page one of this blog but this expresses it in simpler terms. All is Well. EnJOY!


  529. Joseph ~

    From my Post #513 ~ I wrote to you ~

    ‘And yes, I acknowledge that everything I’ve written to you here may be absolutely wrong, misjudged;’

    _____________

    Your post #519 ~ You wrote ~

    “Reason #5: Your apparent inability to compromise or ever admit you may have been wrong.”

    ________________

    I think it was Bruce who once said ~ “Live and let live.”

    Sometimes this is a bit too obvious as ‘right work’… so be it. I wish you well Joseph; particularly in the area of lying.

    ________________

    l.t.y.a.


  530. on July 27, 2007 at 11:45 pm with malice toward none

    #502 Joseph

    “That the sequence may give some results if taught correctly and applied appropriately I will not dispute. However, in point of fact it was never taught correctly, but only inadvertently and rhetorically.”

    Well, this is not the first time we have disagreed on something in the last 30 years although it is one of very few. The sequence in my opinion has been taught correctly and appropriately and I was able to see its value almost immediately with much more than ‘some results’. I have many other friends that agree. We compare notes, discuss our results and compare that with what Robert is saying and are making good progress with it. It is still early in the game but I am excided by this start. Just because everyone can’t understand the teacher does not necessarily mean the teacher is not teaching correctly or the students are not making the correct efforts. Not everyone can understand calculus, not everyone can be a great chef, not everyone can taste wine like you can. Why this is happening now after this many years is baffling to me.

    I also have many other friends that are struggling with the sequence and the apparent absurdity of the rest of the teaching occurring now. A mutual friend of ours and the very best friend of my life left the school about the same time you did. Her I’s were identical to your I’s on the subject. As I have indicated, I agree absolutely with most of what you say and partially with most of the rest. It is astonishing to me that the little bit of disagreement could make such a huge difference.

    It seems that we are dividing into highly polarized camps over the sequence. One either finds the sequence of great value or one finds that is absurd and of no use whatsoever. You are probably having as hard a time as I am understanding how so many of our friends could be in the other camp. For those that find the sequence of great value there is no question of leaving. (sorry, exaggeration, read: no question of the many questions strong enough of leaving.) For those that have come to the impasse that you have, there probably is no point in staying. (Maybe no exaggeration.) For those that are still struggling, good luck. Help is available and it is not hard to find it.

    #495 “It’s just that I’m not going to allow you to bully me.”

    Your reaction to unoanimo seems a little over sensitive, especially given the blog format. You are quite dominant and have a little of the bully in you. You have probably been told this before. I’ve felt that energy a little in your response to me. Your remark demonstrates a feature of human psychology: Those that dish it out the most can take it the least.

    I know you are in a vulnerable place now and publicly laid it all out for all to see. This is a very brave approach. I wish you well with what you are going through and hope you get to other side of it soon. You have handled other tough times in your life well and I’m sure this one will not be any different.

    Love to you and yours.


  531. To Joseph 521:

    Sorry I could not resist I wanted to come back on the seen just to give thanks to you. I would like to participate in the forum again with my personal experiences when maybe the tone changes from a few of the writers.

    Joseph, I am a generation behind you, I do not want to reveal myself, but I would say we have mutual respect for another.

    I would suggest everyone read 521 post twice which would apply to members as well as non members. Free speech does not have to be a dirty business as stated on the top of this website.

    Respect to all, members, non members and those on the fence.


  532. Laura, that poem gave me chills too. thanks!


  533. 525 Fat Boy

    Welcome back.

    “I would like to participate in the forum again with my personal experiences when maybe the tone changes from a few of the writers.”

    Really, you have to cut out this ultimatum shit. You’re coming off like a prissy little girl, and I know you’re not. You need to re-claim your manhood. Hike your pants up, grit your teeth and look at like a secret code. Within the muck only you can drag out the useful. You won’t find much of value in the flowery shit because it won’t challenge you. Time to grow up and reap the benefits.

    lty


  534. Fat Boy ~

    521 or 519?

    Joseph didn’t write 521…

    Welcome back.


  535. 528

    Not that you ever left, that is.


  536. Ahhhh, the many I’s.


  537. Bruce 527: Predictable response from you. But believe it or not I somewhat agree with you and always have!

    But still feel all bloggers should support Joseph on his following points below.

    Reason #2: Your generally condescending, almost dismissive (or at best avuncular) tone.

    Reason #3: The way you very frequently make value judgements about the personal character and integrity of other people who write here, yet are incredibly sensitive to being slighted yourself.

    Reason #4: The sheer volume of words you produce, and the way these words spin your own predictable themes, frequently with disregard to what others have actually written.

    Reason #5: Your apparent inability to compromise or ever admit you may have been wrong.


  538. Reuters: THE ONION – July 1- August 1, 2007
    (inspired from)

    Inner Circle Quarantines Reality- Challenged Campers

    CAMP BOBALONGALONGA, CA – Counselors at Bobalongalonga Sleep-Away Camp say a potentially dangerous outbreak of B-Influence virus has been contained in the Apollo D’oro dining facility where campers infected by “sudden acute attacks of missing the Truth” were safely quarantined Saturday before the disease could spread. “We believe the disease arrived in a box of homemade oatmeal raisin cookies, which we have since isolated,” said Howard Carter. Group leader, Linda T, who oversaw the 1994 treatment of a similar campfire ghost-story-related outbreak of the heebie-jeebies said “once you see the first couple of chins quivering, you gotta hustle them off quick to the furthest cabin from the Galleria and the Blog. Linda T confirmed that 400 + campers who succumbed to the viral outbreak were ex-communicated according to Fellowship of Friends Canons. The remaining campers were last seen huddled around the campfire singing ‘ Merrily we Bob Along, Bob Along, Bob Along, merrily we …’.


  539. Correction:

    To 528 unoanimo: In my 525 post, I ment to refer to Joseph’s 519 post not 521. Sorry for the mistake. Thanks for the welcoming back I might even stay.


  540. I have no problem with Joseph’s views. Life is consistently “being at a certain stage” in relating to things. There’s nothing to judge, that I can see, in his posts.

    Five or ten years from now I would be surprised if I didn’t look back at “me now” and think “what the hell was I thinking”? I certainly hope I will.

    I remember being torn for many years between the “bad stuff” and the fact that it was my experience in the FOF that brought me into contact with what is now my main vocation, which I love passionately. I confused, for a time, what was owed to RB for this, and a more healthy “larger view” of what transpired. I also had forgotten the denying force RB played at certain times in relation to the direction I chose. I am thankful my “play” went the way it did, but also I am under no illusion that it was because of RB, although I’m sure he would be the first to claim responsibility for all good that happens to members and non-members, and refute any responsibility for the damage he’s caused.


  541. Hello,
    I have a question, why to blame others for our mistakes and decisions?

    If Robert hurt you a lot, i think you need profesional help. because you are stock in that.
    free yourself of Robert, fellowship, or what ever hurst you.

    one very important thing is not to do anything without to be totally conviced.

    so, if you decided to do something, be a man, and be responsible for your own decisions and mistakes and do not blame others.


  542. on July 28, 2007 at 1:19 am Howeird Carter

    Weekly Bomb

    The story was told thusly:

    B_nj_m_n Y_d_n ( yes he of the inner cirlcle) has well learned the fundamental sequence (known as the 6) from Robert Burton. Yes, he can’t keep his trousers on either. However ,his weakness is young girls or young good looking women.
    It seems his reputation needed a boost abroad. He was already the laughing stock of many young girls in and around Oregon House (yeesss – young daughters of students had already been giggling among themselves, of the silly fat fart that would expose himself whenever,whereever he got the chance, or even proposition some of them outright).
    Tired of not getting enough at Oregon House, he went abroad to the centers to spread the good word of intrepretation of the “Bible Keys”.
    It seems , the Bible Keys was not the only thing he was intent on spreading.
    Within a very short period of time, he was recalled by Asaf after many complaints from Center Directors who were very concerned about the havoc he was creating in the centers by propositioning the young , vulnerable female students. He was having problems keeping his trousers on even there. Gosh, there was even rumour of attempted force (in some countries it might even be termed rape).
    The “Bible Keys” came to an abrupt end! Asaf felt “it was time to end the Bible Keys – since the School had moved on.

    What do you think? Howeird is that?


  543. #509 Laura

    Thanks for that.


  544. If you are a Greater Fellowship member, be sure to read Anna T’s blog post there. It is currently accessible on the main page. It is quite long, but very eloquent and from the heart.


  545. It’s coming! The mid-summer’s madness fool moon. So far, thanks to Bruce, I’m laughing it out.

    I remember reading just a minutes ago a reference to 1 Corninthians 13.

    I like very much the English voice. I remember watching the funeral of Princess Diana (?) and being spelled bound when her brother read out of 1 Corninthians.

    1 Corninthians 13 is about LOVE. I can’t remember the title or the rock band but they had a soulful sounding song with the phrase, “teach me love. Kansas/Journey? It had the same affect on me.

    It’s the week-end and the lunar-tics are out. Drive sane.


  546. RE: 511 a former student.

    you wrote: “I had great respect for the directors of the San Diego center who were there when I joined in 1973. John Graham and Jan Allen. If I found out that John and Jan knew of Roberts homosexual abuse of his students in 1974 or 75 when Robert asked me to move to the Ranch I would hold them responsible for that. ”

    Why don’t you call and ask them, they both live in Oregon House.

    536 xena

    “If you are a Greater Fellowship member, be sure to read Anna T’s blog post there.”

    Can somebody post that story here, for those of us not so great? thanks


  547. SAM.1
    You too can be great, send me an e-mail and I’ll send you an invitation.

    cmsabin at infostations dot ne


  548. It is interesting how Robert Burton has corrupted Gurdjieff’s ideas about an internal work on oneself into a false external system that somehow snares magnetic centers and traps them into a limbo of self doubt. Fellowship of Friends members recieve external praise, approval and social support calling going along with the will of the “teacher” good work and abondone their own inner sense of values.

    To question the Teacher and the school is right work. It is the responsiblity of the student to question everything and learn to act from their own understanding and conscience. If it is a true school then ones conscience will experience no contradictions in supporting the school.

    It is important to go back to the beginning over and over. Call it what you will , do ones best to get into a state of openness of taking in new impressions, of allowing new ideas to enter. This means being willing to give up all ones opinions , all that we think we know. Nothing real is ever lost only the imaginary fades in the late of critical attention.


  549. on 27 Jul 2007 at 11:52 pm
    525 Fat Boy

    This is like a movie sequal in which the Hero who apparantly died a ghastly death comes around again.

    I agree with what one woman wrote. Your attitude and the way you wrote about sexuality is the lowest and most degrading thing posted on the blog short of descriptions of Robert’s abusing his students. Since you were also Robert’s lover and state you feel it was a good exchange you probably don’t understand the anger expressed by those who experienced it differently.

    You can denounce the blog as much as you want but I don’t owe you anything, if you want to be treated a certain way your in the wrong place. There is a positive process occuring with or without you


  550. on 28 Jul 2007 at 3:45 am538 SAM.1
    RE: 511 a former student.

    you wrote: “I had great respect for the directors of the San Diego center who were there when I joined in 1973. John Graham and Jan Allen. If I found out that John and Jan knew of Roberts homosexual abuse of his students in 1974 or 75 when Robert asked me to move to the Ranch I would hold them responsible for that. ”

    Why don’t you call and ask them, they both live in Oregon House

    That is reasonable send me their numbers at
    scottduncan@frys.com
    I’m sure that if they lied 35 years ago they will be completely honest about evrything now. What do they have to lose?


  551. Dear 541, a former student:

    This blogged has opened up my eyes to the pain some of the former members have received and I also realize alot of current members buffer many thing in the school.

    Some of the experiences touch me on this blog, others are inflated.

    No women, girlfriend, wife has accused me of degrading them sexually. A couple of you and That Girl were offended, and I am sorry for this. My main point is that we are sexaual beings, and like food, we strive for sex. Sometimes the line gets crossed. And it is apparent Robert has crossed this line – this is probably why you and others are upset at me for not adding this.

    Sex and love don’t always happen naturally, there has to be some work involved. It probably was a mistake for me to give that example, I was just trying to be “real” about how the testerone functions in a male. You may disagree, but I think others no where I am comming from.


  552. I like you fat boy. Keep pluggin. We still have hope for you.


  553. No testosterone here.


  554. on July 28, 2007 at 6:44 am Life Person

    After months of periodically reading and contributing to the blog, what most amazes me is the enormity of the disconnect between what is observed and what some people choose to believe.

    Once the emotional charge created by the resurgence of memories that had drifted around for decades dissipated somewhat, and I had for some weeks left off reading the blog, which seemed to perpetuate that charge, and then came back to it, I find myself stunned and incredulous.

    Taking away those things that he has said about himself, and those things that others have said about him, and looking only at the evidence before us, we see a man who, before he announced himself as a Teacher, was most easily described as a loser. Fired from his modest teaching position, kicked out of his brief stint in an abusive cult for the most pedestrian reason–being unable to keep his hands off the other guys–living with his mommy or in his van long past the age when we’d expect a man to have a halfway decent job. A man with modest formal education from a white trash background, with the middle name of Earl. Had never accomplished anything of note. Cannot write, paint, dance, or sing. Oh yes–he could play tennis, at the level of the average high school varsity player.

    A man who has since lived an entirely parasitic existence, having declined to lift a finger on his own behalf since he was thirty, beyond walking, sitting, lifting fork and glass, talking, and having sex; a man whose muscles have atrophied from disuse. A man who cannot be bothered to pay his own bills, or drive his own car, or fix his own faucet. Can you imagine your father, or your neighbor, let alone Socrates, telling people to do manual labor, including labor that benefits only himself, year after year, decade after decade, while he simply shuffles around in thousand-dollar slacks and five hundred-dollar shoes, without ever contributing anything? Jesus was a carpenter. Dante wrote fantastic works of literature. Leonardo painted masterpieces. Others make shoes, grow food. Here’s a man who jots down notes and sayings at the level of a precocious junior high schooler, and gives others instructions in between efforts to satisfy his physical urges. We find the model for this in, say, Henry VIII, or more accurately, a pinheaded, inbred pharaoh.

    Here is a man who has not, in at least 37 years, and most likely in his entire life, had an intimate emotional relationship with another man, woman, cat or turtle that would be recognized by anyone as normal, let alone mature.
    Whose “teachings” are almost entirely unoriginal, having been cobbled together, first from the works of Gurdjieff and his disciples, a little later from quotes copied like a lazy freshman from the Harvard Classics, and now from a hodgepodge of sources that does not rise to the level of solid “B Influence”–stuff that, thirty years ago, you wouldn’t have picked out of the trash, like Chariots of the Gods and Linda Goodman’s Sun Signs. He even tried his hand at National Enquirer-style prophecy, and was so spectacularly unsuccessful that he now claims he never meant any of it.

    A man who fancies himself an aesthete, of impeccable taste, yet whose taste is classic nouveau riche, reflecting once again the lack of any originality, let alone artistic flair. Everything is copied, taken from others, like the pile of statues in the basement of Charles Foster Kane’s Xanadu. Who considers a Greek temple plopped down in the Sierra foothills very classy, and cannot see that it is pathetic kitsch, like Las Vegas casinos featuring recreations of pyramids and Venice.

    In any other circumstance, this man would be considered ridiculous. A buffoon. Laughed at.

    And this, of course, does not address a level of greed and financial manipulation that would seem eye-rollingly incredible in a made-for-TV-movie about a New Age Guru. Who would believe a character who did all the running after cufflinks, the wine-guzzling, the pouring of rich food down his gullet, the endless supply of suits, shirts, shoes, Rolls Royces and Mercedes, watches, paintings, furniture, and on and on and on, while continually demanding more money from his followers, some of whom make extraordinary sacrifices, destroy themselves financially, to keep the man in silk, cashmere, and the umpteenth performance of Giselle. We’d turn it off in disgust, exclaiming that the movie showed an obvious intent to slander all nontraditional religious organizations and make their adherents seem imbecilic.

    And then there’s the fellow’s peculiar sexual habits, which also are no laughing matter. His need to have his various orifices continually filled, not by people with whom he shares a deep emotional bond, but by desperate or naive people he has cajoled with pathetic fairy tales, who hide their faces in shame as he grunts and pants before showing them the door and calling in the next one. People who carry the diseases he has passed on to them, and perhaps their partners, for the rest of their lives, along with the burning resentment and humiliation of having allowed themselves to be so callously and pitifully used by someone they trusted. This sort of behavior is generally accepted everywhere as demonstrating a profound emotional disturbance.

    And none of this even touches on the man’s treatment of others when they’re not coming in his mouth, his disregard of what would be considered decent, principled behavior in any culture, under any ethical or religious creed. His complete lack of genuine interest in the well-being of anyone who does not give him, or procure for him, money or sex, his willingness to act, without regret, as though a person he has known for twenty years or more, a person who has given him everything they have, has never existed the moment the individual stops giving him money or sex.

    But, I suppose, none of this precludes his being the Light of the World, the Greatest Being Since Christ, and worthy of the highest lifelong devotion. And why? Because he says he is “conscious.” So that’s what being “conscious” means, does it? How could I have missed it. But some say they have “verified” that he is “conscious.” Oh, that changes everything.

    For quite a while everyone on earth was convinced the world was flat.

    “But he teaches people to be present.” Indeed. Being present to eating too much, drinking too much, having sex with people who don’t want to have sex with you. Present to enjoying the fruits of others’ labors. Present to the sycophantic bowing and scraping of people without any self-respect or discernment. He teaches, by example, how to be present to treating others like shit.

    How to account for his success? If a person without any useful abilities of his own sat down and decided to develop a way to allow himself to have all the money, sex, food, travel, power, fancy clothes, adulation, and sheer self-indulgent luxury an adolescent could possibly imagine–if a man embarrassed by his own sexuality and humble social status wanted to be treated like a god–what might he come up with?

    And why is it that so many people whose wisdom is so much more easily observed, who are truly kind and compassionate, who genuinely value others simply for their inherent humanity, who find delight in simple pleasures and do not need to be continually praised, obeyed, fucked, fed, entertained, clothed, and carted about, who enjoy being useful, who serve others instead of claiming to serve disembodied spirits while leaving a trail of pain in their wake–why is it that such people do not have as many people trying to learn from them?

    Might it be that some people actually want what they see this man has, rather than true wisdom, true compassion?

    Might it be that some people cannot bear the thought that what is so obvious might actually be the simple truth, which would make them gullible fools?


  555. on July 28, 2007 at 6:57 am Another Name

    Dear fat boy and others.

    Of course we are sexual beings.
    The question is to which “I” to react. Do you believe your “I”s and are you acting upon them.
    That makes the difference between a being who hurts others and a being who “transforms” and sticks close to his conscience. Your action will be very different too.

    Many times people have told me for example: The Russians do not have a conscience. Or: “I do not have a conscience”.

    Conscience is a simple small voice, an energy that when “I”s come up you and listen too and act from that part. Easy to overrule. Your dear Robert Burton (and yourself have lost this connections I assume). How do I know?…look at the man’s actions. When people leave, he will not communicate himself directly with students who are moving away from his “teaching”. He uses other people to communicate. He can let “his friends” go so easily without saying good by, so not emotional at all.

    He does not know how to deal with dying people. When Peter Bischop was sick with Lung cancer “terminal” Robert went to visit him and asked Edi-th “Can he speak?” Peter from his sick bed replied “Yes”. The man has no idea and is afraid of dying. You can not lie around dying people they feel it, false personality is completely useless around dying people. Our Robert Burton does not have the being to deal with dying people, have you?
    Have you spend 3 or more days with a terminal ill person.
    Fat Boy that is a real “teaching”.

    Robert is very good in getting what he wants with manipulative techniques. First he will see if you obey him. If you do not obey him he will send you to an outer circle. If you obey he will request more and more. If you still obey he will ask one day and boy the man can wait to give him his favors. It always will hurt you. Even if you do not realize it in the moment. Time will tell you how hurtful it was. Yes, here we can meet buffers and I am very sorry for you and many of your friends. Find help get organized at listen to your conscience.
    The only way is out….instead of the up we believed for so many years…Get out now you still can and do not wait like the German’s after the second world war: “Wir haben es nicht gewust”.

    I am very grateful for this blog and I have a warm feeling in my heart for all of you.


  556. Life Person, -(546)
    Fuckin brilliant!
    Love,
    Ryan


  557. Fat Boy -543
    “This blogged has opened up my eyes”
    Hi Nicholas, we can see you!
    Love,
    Ryan


  558. on July 28, 2007 at 7:34 am Bass Ackwards

    Ames [#500],
    Thanks for your powerful prayer suggestion to Somebody. It could also be one reason why this blog is so powerful? It is a kind of prayer for the Fellowship?
    ***********************************************
    Fat Boy
    Glad to see you back. Keep on plugging. Instead of seeing the blog as mudsling fest, why not see it as a kind of deep cleansing mudbath? The voices here will only prompt you to be honest with yourself, the methods are not always kind. But in the end, you will feel better.

    Love,
    Bass


  559. Bravo Life Person, Bravo!

    “Might it be that some people actually want what they see this man has, rather than true wisdom, true compassion?”

    Now we are getting to the ‘heart’ of the matter.


  560. Hi with malice toward none (#524),

    You’re absolutely right, I do have a little of the bully in me.

    unoanimo – I came across stronger than I meant or needed to. Sorry.

    Joseph G


  561. A short exposure to the blog will reveal a simple truth. To many individuals their relationship to the system, the 4th way, Robert Burton and The Fellowship of Friends is the defining relationship in their life. This is a fact. While fellowship members hibernated waiting for civilization to end it continued and now the ideas of physcological transformation are part of television programimg.

    Therapists , specialists in Relationships have proliforated.
    The blog is developing a literature that counters the programming of the Fellowship. One more suggestion. Try to think of The system, the 4th way, The Fellowship of Friends and Robert Burton as seperate but connected experiences.
    Tools for dealing with transitions are readily available.


  562. on July 28, 2007 at 8:13 am Comic Relief

    Awhile ago a parody of door-to-door evangelizing appeared on the internet. Just change some of the names and a few ‘key’ words and …

    John: “Hi! I’m John, and this is Mary.”
    Mary: Hi! We’re here to invite you to come kiss Hank’s ass with us.”
    Me: “Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who’s Hank, and why would I want to kiss His ass?”
    John: “If you kiss Hank’s ass, He’ll give you a million dollars; and if you don’t, He’ll kick the sh*t out of you.”
    Me: “What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?”
    John: “Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever he wants, and what He wants is to give you a million dollars, but He can’t until you kiss his ass.”
    Me: “That doesn’t make any sense. Why…”
    Mary: “Who are you to question Hank’s gift? Don’t you want a million dollars? Isn’t it worth a little kiss on the ass?”
    Me: “Well maybe, if it’s legit, but…”
    John: “Then come kiss Hank’s ass with us.”
    Me: “Do you kiss Hank’s ass often?”
    Mary: “Oh yes, all the time…”
    Me: “And has He given you a million dollars?”
    John: “Well no. You don’t actually get the money until you leave town.”
    Me: “So why don’t you just leave town now?”
    Mary: “You can’t leave until Hank tells you to, or you don’t get the money, and He kicks the sh*t out of you.”
    Me: “Do you know anyone who kissed Hank’s ass, left town, and got the million dollars?”
    John: “My mother kissed Hank’s ass for years. She left town last year, and I’m sure she got the money.”
    Me: “Haven’t you talked to her since then?”
    John: “Of course not, Hank doesn’t allow it.”
    Me: “So what makes you think He’ll actually give you the money if you’ve never talked to anyone who got the money?”
    Mary: “Well, he gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you’ll get a raise, maybe you’ll win a small lotto, maybe you’ll just find a twenty-dollar bill on the street.”
    Me: “What’s that got to do with Hank?”
    John: “Hank has certain ‘connections.'”
    Me: “I’m sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game.”
    John: “But it’s a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don’t kiss Hank’s ass He’ll kick the sh*t of you.”
    Me: “Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from him…”
    Mary: “No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank.”
    Me: “Then how do you kiss His ass?”
    John: “Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His ass. Other times we kiss Karl’s ass, and he passes it on.”
    Me: “Who’s Karl?”
    Mary: “A friend of ours. He’s the one who taught us all about kissing Hank’s ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times.”
    Me: “And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss His ass, and that Hank would reward you?”
    John: “Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining the whole thing. Here’s a copy; see for yourself.”
    —————————————
    From the desk of Karl
    1) Kiss Hank’s ass and He’ll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
    2) Use alcohol in moderation.
    3) Kick the sh*t out of people who aren’t like you.
    4) Eat right.
    5) Hank dictated this list Himself.
    6) The moon is made of green cheese.
    7) Everything Hank says is right.
    8) Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
    9) Don’t use alcohol.
    10) Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
    11) Kiss Hank’s ass or He’ll kick the sh*t out of you.
    ——————————————————————–
    Me: “This appears to be written on Karl’s letterhead.”
    Mary: “Hank didn’t have any paper.”
    Me: “I have a hunch that if we checked we’d find this is Karl’s handwriting.”
    John: “Of course, Hank dictated it.”
    Me: “I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?”
    Mary: “Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people.”
    Me: “I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the sh*t out of people just because they’re different?”
    Mary: “It’s what Hank wants, and Hank’s always right.”
    Me: “How do you figure that?”
    Mary: “Item 7 says ‘Everything Hank says is right.’ That’s good enough for me!”
    Me: “Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up.”
    John: “No way! Item 5 says ‘Hank dictated this list himself.’ Besides, item 2 says ‘Use alcohol in moderation,’ Item 4 says ‘Eat right,’ and item 8 says ‘Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.’ Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too.”
    Me: “But 9 says ‘Don’t use alcohol.’ which doesn’t quite go with item 2, and 6 says ‘The moon is made of green cheese,’ which is just plain wrong.”
    John: “There’s no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you’ve never been to the moon, so you can’t say for sure.”
    Me: “Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock…”
    Mary: “But they don’t know if the rock came from the Earth, or from outer space, so it could just as easily be green cheese.”
    Me: “I’m not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon was somehow ‘captured’ by the Earth has been discounted. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn’t make it cheese.”
    John: “Ha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!”
    Me: “We do?”
    Mary: “Of course we do, Item 5 says so.”
    Me: “You’re saying Hank’s always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That’s circular logic, no different than saying ‘Hank’s right because He says He’s right.'”
    John: “Now you’re getting it! It’s so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank’s way of thinking.”
    Me: “But…oh, never mind. What’s the deal with wieners?”
    Mary: (She blushes.)
    John: “Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It’s Hank’s way. Anything else is wrong.”
    Me: “What if I don’t have a bun?”
    John: “No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong.”
    Me: “No relish? No Mustard?”
    Mary: (She looks positively stricken.)
    John:( He’s shouting.) “There’s no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!”
    Me: “So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?”
    Mary: (Sticks her fingers in her ears.) “I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la.”
    John: “That’s disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that…”
    Me: “It’s good! I eat it all the time.” (Mary faints.)
    John: (He catches Mary.) “Well, if I’d known you where one of those I wouldn’t have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the sh*t out of you I’ll be there, counting my money and laughing. I’ll kiss Hank’s ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater.”
    With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.

    Did you get it? Did you REALLY get it? And did you see how accurately it portrays the whole religious mindset? Most important, did you notice how “good rules” can be inserted for the express purpose of establishing “Faith in rules” that are not only lies, but are actually detrimental to growth and development? And did you notice how cleverly this little skit actually captured the dynamic of the “true believer?”


  563. Life Person 546
    Welcome back, what an incredibly strong return!


  564. Comic Relief 554
    Thanks for making me laugh out loud! The whole thing is brilliant.
    Speaking of Henry the VIII, here’s a little more comedy for you all….

    http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=Ope-1Zb5t-k&mode=related&search=


  565. Comic Relief 554
    Thanks for making me laugh out loud! The whole thing is brilliant.

    Speaking of Henry the VIII, I have been trying to post a comic relief video for a few days now, but the Sheik must have a weird anti-Eddie Izzard filter installed.
    So, if you want to see it, just go to you tube and type in search:

    Religion ala Eddie Izzard


  566. on July 28, 2007 at 9:23 am Another Name

    Life person. wooooooooh
    I am going to sit on what you wrote.
    I am speecheless and thanks for your time and efforts
    The question is such a great question.

    One of my wise friends, with home I spoke about this would say:
    “When you are in the fellowship of friends you need it, when you are not in the fellowwhip you needed”.

    “And why is it that so many people whose wisdom is so much more easily observed, who are truly kind and compassionate, who genuinely value others simply for their inherent humanity, who find delight in simple pleasures and do not need to be continually praised, obeyed, fucked, fed, entertained, clothed, and carted about, who enjoy being useful, who serve others instead of claiming to serve disembodied spirits while leaving a trail of pain in their wake–why is it that such people do not have as many people trying to learn from them?

    Might it be that some people actually want what they see this man has, rather than true wisdom, true compassion?

    Might it be that some people cannot bear the thought that what is so obvious might actually be the simple truth, which would make them gullible fools?”


  567. on July 28, 2007 at 9:55 am Bass Ackwards

    478 a former student

    Thanks for your input. I have to say, from my perspective as a foot soldier on the ground here, “with all due respect Sir, it does seem to be solution for myself and for so many of my Friends.”

    If you are indeed a Former Student, then you do not know what meetings are like now, neither what they have been like two years ago, or four, or “X” because I do not know how long you have been out of the School (and it doesn’t really matter to me, just it is a point relative to the real context in which I make my comments and observations). The point is that the Teaching we have been using has been the Fourth Way Work books, which we have used to try to explain RB, etc… to ourselves. Now, we don’t really have those either, we only have Presence – and the Sequence – and the idea that all Schools are the same School.

    So, for any student who has been around 10, 20 or 30 years, we know that Presence is IT. And we buy into the “Cult” side of things to varying degrees, each to his own propensity. For all those who are not crystallized Howard Carters, understanding someone like Maharaj (Nisargadatta) can be the ultimate and freeing ray of light. Perhaps you have had the chance to read Anna Tudor’s story on GFOF? It is only one (excellently well written) example of what is and has been occurring all over the School. The blog busts up the “Cult” side of things but Non-Duality illumines Presence.

    So I don’t see Nisargadatta, or Advaita Non-Duality as a different system or teaching, I see it as completing the Fourth Way in a way I never could have imagined. In case you missed this quotation earlier, I repost it now.

    It is from William Patrick Patterson, of the Gurdjieff Legacy:

    “The basic teaching of the Work is Self-Remembering. What is the Self? If you can answer that question, you will understand Advaita. There isn’t really a differentiation between the Fourth Way teaching and Advaita, there only seems to be.”

    Love,
    Bass


  568. on July 28, 2007 at 10:04 am Bass Ackwards

    A further thought:
    “The blog busts up the “Cult” side of things but Non-Duality illumines Presence.”

    What comes first the chicken or the egg? I KNOW all the students who value Presence but shun the blog. So the only solution I can think of is introducing them to deeper and more profound knowledge than what they are getting from RB. Then maybe later they will find it interesting to expose themselves to the deprogramming of the Blog, but otherwise it will not happen.

    Cheers,
    Bass


  569. on July 28, 2007 at 10:15 am I think is worth a reading...

    The Dream of Separation

    All there is is No-thing Being Everything and what appears as part of that everything is the belief and experience of being a separate self — an apparent individual with its own free will, choice and ability to act. This happening is uniquely human and is called self-consciousness. To most people it is the reality.

    That apparent feeling of being separate is at the root of the suffering, inadequacy and sense of loss that drives people to search for escape or resolution. It is Being dreaming that it is apart from itself, looking all over the place for that which is already Everything. It is the hypnotic dream of separation which, for the dreamer, is very real.

    The dilemma for the dream seeker is that the feeling of separation drives the seeking for resolution, which further fuels the sense of separation.

    The development of an intelligent understanding ‘mind’ apparently brings with it the ability to make choices and take actions in an attempt to negotiate with ‘the world’ lived in. These negotiations are not always successful and the individual seems to experience its own pain and pleasure. It also develops a great respect for the guidance and control apparently emanating from the understanding ‘mind’. However, as long as there is a sense of separation, there is a sense of disquiet or loss and there is a seeking to dispel that sense. It seems logical that the much respected understanding ‘mind’ must be capable of investigating the cause of this disquiet and discovering ways of dispelling it.

    The separate entity can only try to imagine or project an idea of what it must be like not to be separate. What is sought is the possibility of a future goal or state that can be realised and therefore, logically, must be approachable. Consequently, the function of seeking and the teaching of becoming locks the seeker into a state of continuously approaching something that it cannot comprehend. All of this is the expression of Being, arising as the good, old, dependable and reliable understanding ‘mind’ functioning as it can only function . . . in continual movement and anticipation. It is this activity of becoming which very effectively keeps the seeker in the hypnotic dream of reaching out for something it cannot grasp. Of course, Liberation can apparently happen despite all of this effort.

    The only other hope for the dream seeker is to believe that another benevolent energy (say God, Consciousness or a so-called enlightened teacher) would be motivated to guide and influence the seeker along a path which would eventually lead them to fulfilment. All of these ideas of becoming, purpose and destiny arise in the dream.

    But the paradox is that although Being appears as the dream seeker, Being is not a state that can be imagined, conceived of, attained or even realised by the seeking of it. Being requires absolutely nothing … it is the Nothing and Everything that is already immaculate fulfilment and wholeness. Nothing needs to be changed or attained, lost or found, for Being to simply Be. The appearance of separation is simply the expression of Being. The very idea of something needing to approach that which it already is, is wonderfully futile. Being is a comedian with an audience which never laughs.

    The dream seeker feels a sense of loss and unworthiness, and so is very attracted to dream teachings which involve purification, hard committed effort, surrender, devotion and the development of renunciation and detachment. There is a kind of logical inevitability and worthiness about these ideas which resonates with the sense of lack. The almost endless path of striving happily ensures the continuation of the individual experience. These ideas seem to arise out of a very substantial and reliable history of traditional wisdom which surely must be respected, even though it is only available as words on bits of paper.

    Two traditional ways which seek resolution, or escape, from the sense of separation are meditation and self-enquiry.

    In meditation it seems possible, through apparent choice and guidance, to reach certain states of stillness or bliss which seem better than feeling separate. The belief is that continuous effort with meditation will solidify the state and eventually make it permanent. But these states are only refined personal experiences happening within the dream-story. So like all other time-based activities they come and go away.

    Self-enquiry is a similar process in that the goal is for the individual to choose to take action or make the effort to reach a place called awareness which, its teachers promise, will bring personal peace of mind, happiness and the end of all suffering (?).

    There is a great emphasis on the need for properly carried out investigation of thought processes etc, and the necessity for vigilance from “being distracted by self-centred thoughts”.

    All of this activity is based on the principle of the enquirer “getting oneness” and maintaining personal possession of it.

    The effect of the state of awareness is apparent movement into a place of detachment which at first feels very freeing, powerful and safe . . . rather like being in a glass box from which life can be watched without the watcher being affected. It is still a subtly dual personal experience within the dream-story of separation and so it is transitory.

    Awareness of life happening is not ‘Being life’.

    Predictably the state of awareness (Buddhist mindfulness) is easily forgotten or mislaid, or it can be overwhelmed by dream thinking or any powerful emotional situation, for instance. The glass box shatters and the place you seemed to be in seems lost again. The dream seeker either starts self-enquiring again, for another boost, or it is realised that awareness is just another refuge from within the dream of separation. All of this is simply the expression of Being.

    Another way for the dream seeker to avoid simply Being is to try to understand or develop clarity about its own nature. It is very easy to get stuck in ‘Advaita’ or ‘non-dual’ concepts. The singular and unrelenting reiteration of such ideas as “all there is is Being”, “everything is the expression of Being” or “there is no one” are an arid and simplistic form of communication. It doesn’t address or illuminate the dream seeker’s apparent dilemma and it obviously ignores the primary energetic essence of the implicit aliveness of simply Being.

    To continuously say that being awake or being asleep is not relevant because “Being is all there is” is like telling a blind person that it’s OK to be blind because “seeing is all there is”. This is pure idealism. Of course, there is no such thing as being asleep or being awake, but this is not seen until there is no one looking.

    The Open Secret communication is not dependent on clear concepts, however much they may expose confused concepts. Speaking happens and words can only point to another possibility which is beyond verbal expression. It is the eternally new message which is hidden within the scriptures and either overlooked or rejected in the ‘mind’.

    The idea of prescriptive teaching, guidance or the offer of any kind of help simply does not arise. This is a message without hope or comfort of any kind for the individual, but invariably the dream seeker will still believe that something is on offer … this is the function of seeking. It is also possible that all that will be left is nothing, and then another possibility could arise. However, there is no agenda or motive because nothing is for sale.

    It is possible that clarity could arise, but absolute understanding is not liberation. Nevertheless, all of this conceptual communication is secondary to the primary element that is most illuminating. That primary element is energetic, impersonal aliveness … the implicit, vibrant wonder of simply Being. It is an energetic shift, apparently out of contraction into boundlessness. This boundlessness cannot be owned and so cannot be given. Its simplicity utterly confounds the ‘mind’, but what arises is an impersonal recognition that there is no-one and nothing to be liberated. All ideas of separation, individual suffering, free will, choice, meaning and purpose, destiny, hierarchy and tradition, are simply seen by no-one as the dream-play of Being.

    It seems that the seeking ‘mind’ is fascinated by struggle and complexity. The whole fabric of seeking is full of stories of great edifices, seemingly arising out of simple beginnings. Buddhism, Christianity and so many other dogmas, arise and grow and fight each other over having better gods. Catechisms of sin and worthiness, degrees of awareness and levels of enlightenment are investigated, dissected and struggled over.

    The mind loves the idea of enlightenment being some kind of distant, virtually unobtainable, perfect place of permanent bliss, free from suffering and full of omniscience, omnipresence and lots of other important ‘omni’s’ stomping around, shouting the odds and saving the world. And of course, because all this glory and specialness has to be attained, it seems there has to be a long haul through the dark night of the soul, endless past karmas, original sin, right-thinking, right action and preparation for the bardos. “It is a tale told by a fool, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”

    Yet Natural Being is such an ordinary and gentle constant. When it is seen it is. When it is avoided it is. It requires no effort and demands no standards. Being timeless there is no path to tread, no debt to pay. When this is heard and confusion collapses, when the contraction of struggling to get something falls away and the vibrant energy of being aliveness becomes apparent, something else is seen, very naturally of course, because it is already all that is.

    Tony Parsons
    1st July 2006


  570. 554. comic relief.
    Thanks! So close to the fof its laughable..
    cy.


  571. I’m back. I have been working nonstop for the past two days so there was no time for the blog, my apologies.

    My list of things to do is as thus:

    1) moderation of new and old posts (there will be a lot of them)
    2) new board for this discussion
    3) new board for the letter

    I should be able to do all three today.

    By the way, Fat Boy, you are fucking unbelievable. Nigel Harris Price, Ames posted his e-mail address some time ago, for all the obvious reasons I am not going to forward your e-mails to anyone.


  572. So, these comments are newly moderated:

    359
    394
    417
    420
    428
    433
    440
    477
    520 (worth reading for sure)
    542
    545
    573

    Jesus (417): There are different kinds of morality. If you seriously believe that taking drugs is on par with sexual abuse, or rape than I pity you. I know people who have suffered from abuse and rape, what’s it done to them is not pretty and it’s permanent. So to me your argument is pretty lame. I would also like to point out that the taking of drugs is not illegal – alcohol, caffeine, nicotine and thousands of drugs used in medicine/psychiatry are all legal. I personally don’t think that the government is very well informed in these issues. Their decisions on what should be legal and what not do not always make much sense. The only way that you can verify this is if you experiment a little bit yourself.

    Most morality that we take for granted these days has been enforced on us by one kind of authority or another – laws, religion and culture tell us what’s wrong and what’s not. These rules are not necessarily correct, it’s man-made morality. But I think that these is a higher realm of morality that we all possess. From my own understanding it seems that committing harm on other people is immoral. Perhaps you disagree.

    John Berry (440): You might want to check out the ‘Fellowship of Friends Sketchbook’ on Animam Recro, or the ‘about’ section of this blog. Some of the best posts are referenced in those two places.