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The Fellowship of Friends Discussion, part 2(0)

This is the twentieth rebirth of the Fellowship of Friends Discussion. Enjoy your stay here and try to be at least vaguely civil and polite. And as always, have fun.

For previous parts of the discussion click on home and scroll away to find parts 10 – 19. For the oldest part of the discussion check out Animam Recro.

628 Responses

  1. the Esoteirc Sheik of Inner Confusion

    Since the beginning I have been trying to keep my ego and pride out of this discussion (and especially the moderation) but this time I failed.

    ********

    Please do keep your ego, your pride and your opinions out of the discussion and the moderation.


  2. Defining yourself by what you believe looks like an extremely dangerous procedure. Unless you are able to determine if the beliefs you hold are insane and inhumane, the identity acquired through adopting beliefs could be delusional.

    Belief can be defined loosely as, whatever an individual is willing to accept without direct verification by experience or without the support of evidence, and taken as a basis for action or non-action. From Old Welsh, Saxon and High German roots such as galaubjan, “cherish, trust.” From y + laub, “that which is held dear.”

    The related root leif has fallen out of use. It is close to the word life, hence it is not surprising that belief can be as dear as life itself but it is also related to leave and love. In archaic parlance, one would speak like this: “I would as lief stay here and die than ford that stream and die trying to cross it.” “As lief” means “I would rather.” It refers to what one is willing to do. To be-lieve is to be-willing. To believe something is to be-will it, to will it into existence.

    In the normal manner of expression, we do not usually apply the term belief to something we experience directly. We say we know something is true when we have experienced it to be so. Belief pertains where rational proof or verification by evidence is lacking, but “experience is the only evidence.” This means that if we can experience something directly, evidentially, we are free from having to hold beliefs about it. R.D. Laing warns: “If our experience is destroyed, our behaviour will be destructive.” It might be said, “if our capacity for experience is destroyed,” our behavior will be affected in a negative way. Indeed, this may be a huge understatement.

    Laing’s distinction highlights a crucial insight: what is most subjective about us, that upon which both our personal identity and our sense of humanity depend, is a capacity to experience, a capacity that can be destroyed. Where belief drives behavior we may begin to comprehend that behavior is driven by belief precisely because the capacity for experience has been superceded by the willingness to believe without the evidence of direct experiencing. Considered in this light, beliefs in and about God (or anything else) may be derived from the incapacity to experience what God actually is. Someone who can experience God in a direct and evidential way no longer needs to hold beliefs in or about God.

    The English word behave traces back to Middle High German, sich behaben, literally “self be-having or be-holding.” To behave is to have a view of yourself behaving in a certain manner, and probably to derive a sense of self from the behavior so enacted. This notion is not entirely trustworthy, however. It represents a concept of human identity that has been challenged in modern psychology relating to abuse and addiction. One of the guiding principles of recovery therapy is that you are not your behavior, although you are responsible for your behavior. Laing would probably concur with the semantics here. Consistent with his distinction, it can be said that you are the subject of your experience, not the result of your behavior. If you are truly living from experience, from the unlimited capacity to grow, learn and evolve, then you will be continually transcending the limits of behavior. In conventional terms, the most obvious sign of behavior is habit, custom, the usual way of doing things. It represents a form of conditioned response induced or programmed from outside. Such conditioning works against the innate capacity for experience.

    Laing says that experience is “intrapsychic.” Someone standing before Niagara Falls may be expected to have a certain response, to act in a customary way: take photos, make oohing sounds, and so forth. This behavior is programmatic and predictable, yet the fact remains that an infinite variety of human experiences could occur in the presence of Niagara Falls. Laing asserts, “My psyche is my experience, my experience is my psyche.” Behavior is the conditional form experience assumes when acted out and shared with others. It is what happens to the psyche, but not what the psyche experiences happening in itself. To live in behavior and identify oneself with behavior is to become alienated from one’s own experience, yet this emphasis on behavior (custom, habit, preprogrammed activity) is precisely the mark of belief-driven activity. People who hold the same beliefs will act in the same (predictable, customary) ways, and they will identify strongly with those ways. Their behavior will prevail because their capacity to experience has been severely compromised, if not destroyed.

    Concerning the difference between behavior and experience, belief does not merely dispense with the evidence of experience, it can go further and deny the evidence of experience. And it often does. Therein lies the power of belief. Belief is motivation by reliance on an assigned version of reality or an assigned version of what might be imagined.

    Ultimately, the problem introduced by belief is not a matter of believing versus non-believing, because annulment of the will to believe is not possible. The true conflict here, upon which depend both the moral and survival orientation of the human species, is between believing and learning.

    Relative belief-change involves letting go of one belief and developing another. This is really an exchange of beliefs, adopting one in place of another. It may take an entire lifetime to exchange a single belief. This is not a testimony to the power or intrinsic truth of beliefs, but rather to the way beliefs confer identity on those who adopt them. This dynamic is self-enforcing: you identify with a belief and the belief in turn defines and strengthens your sense of identity. Under the spell of consensus reality, millions of people find their identities in what they believe — to such an extent that, lacking those beliefs, they would have no idea who they are.

    Of course, most people in the world today did not adopt the beliefs they hold in the first place. Our beliefs are more often chosen for us than by us. Relative belief-change begins with the act of questioning the beliefs chosen for us by family, racial background, culture, education, religion and government. If any of those beliefs are found to be untrue or harmful, then can be rejected, and others adopted in their stead.

    Prizewinning author Barry Lopez has written extensively on the link that connects humans with nature. Like many others, Lopez was brought up to believe that humans are distinct from and superior to all other animals — if, indeed, humans can be considered to be animals at all. Lopez gradually abandoned this belief as untrue and exchanged it for a belief in the kinship of all species. Describing this shift, he said, “I would say that seeking nature has caused me to change my identity. I now regard myself as part of nature.” The belief-change undergone in his life involved throwing off an entire sets of beliefs about how humanity is related to the natural world, the non-human and the Other. This process led to the dissolution of the entire belief-system chosen for him. Lopez presents an example of advanced belief-change, but it is still relative, still a matter of exchanging one belief or set or beliefs for another.

    Radical belief-change goes beyond shedding particular beliefs or exchanging one belief (humans are separate from and superior to nature) for another (humans are part of nature, and not dominant to other species). Radical change involves a deep shift in the way beliefs are viewed, rather than a mere shift in belief. One of the most difficult but crucial lessons is that we can assess beliefs to see it they are insane and inhumane. Doing so, we look deeply into the dynamic of belief. One of the first things we learn is that the power of particular beliefs depends in large measure on the nature of belief being left unquestioned and unexamined.

    Socrates said, “The unexamined life is not worth living.” To rephrase this famous statement we could say, “The unexamined belief is not worth holding.” True enough, but the examined belief may not be worth holding, either. In other words, a great many beliefs, once they are examined, may prove to be worthless as indicators of truth or guides to experience, although they may serve to define identity and confer a sense of belonging. Beliefs are not always adopted because they are true but come to be regarded as true because they have been adopted. Their value is not to carry truths that are acquired from the direct experience of the individual, but to insure the individual identity and participation in social terms.

    Beliefs are tools for social conditioning, rather than expressions of inner realization or universal truth.

    This assertion is a good example of radical belief-change because it does not propose that any belief is better or worse than any other; rather, it exposes the inner dynamic of believing. With radical belief-change, one believes less and less and comes to rely more and more on the evidence of direct personal experience. On this path there is a possibility of liberation from all forms of conditioning that impede or conceal the authentic resources of the individual. Hence, belief-change is essential to the full actualization of human potential.

    It must be said, however, that radical belief-change carries a definite risk of social alienation, because so much of what happens in human society depends on the sharing of unexamined beliefs. One can become very unpopular very quickly by putting certain beliefs in question, especially religious beliefs. Radical belief-change is always intimate and deeply personal, specific to the individual who undertakes it. It may be debatable that belief-change of this kind is even possible on the social level, because it would dissolve the very fabric of society.

    Relative belief-change is a way to overcome the conditioning that prevents us from realizing our authenticity as human beings. It is a path of spiritual awakening and transformation. Radical belief-change is a way, not only to overcome, but also to oppose the conditioning that deviates us, individually and collectively, from the true potential of humanitas. These two forms of belief-change are the most effective strategies for shifting human behavior at the individual level and perhaps for plotting a course correction for the human species as a whole.


  3. As to the recent discussions of the “demonization of the human body,” I experienced a great many problems with this area when I joined the Fellowship of Friends. Back in 1981, at least on the East Coast where I joined, there was a very strong current of “Puritanism,” for lack of a better word. The “do what the machine does not wish to do” thing was going very strong. For me, this led quite naturally to something like this: if I was “doing what the machine wished to do,” say, eating a bowl of ice cream, then I wasn’t working on myself. And because I wasn’t making efforts to struggle with the instinctive center at that moment, I felt guilty. Soon, I began waking up in the morning with a knot in my stomach as I remembered all the times I had failed to make efforts the previous day — a great way to start the day!

    A war began inside of me. One part felt guilty all the time, and another, saner part tried to talk with the guilty part and try to convince it this wasn’t reasonable. But I learned that the pathological part couldn’t be reasoned with, after years of going in internal circles. Ultimately, I became so miserable that I left the school. I didn’t even know anything about Robert’s corruption, but I had figured out that this insane taskmaster inside myself did not represent any kind of true work on myself. The relief I felt on leaving was being able to immediately jettison all that junk.

    Most students that I talked to about this couldn’t seem to understand what I was talking about, or at least they claimed not to. But there were a very few students who undestood what I was going through. Stanley R once said to me, “Work ‘I’s don’t nag,” which I thought was brilliant, because that was the crux of the problem. But it wasn’t enough to overcome the power of the guilt-monster, so I left. It came down to this — that the only part of me that wanted to stay was this hideous Puritan that wanted to put my instinctive center in stocks in the public square. Forget about it!

    I guess I should be thankful I couldn’t overcome the guilt, because otherwise I might have stayed even longer.

    Thanks to all of you here.


  4. 535 arthur
    539 xena

    Thanks for that.

    There is apparently much that is lost in translation of the Bible, as my wife learned when she had to learn to read it in Greek and Hebrew. Also, the choices of how to translate particular verses were not always based on what was accurate, but on what was politically expedient to shape people’s belief in a certain direction. At least I think I remember hearing that way back when.


  5. Re: 19/527 Graduates

    “What I said about pig-face-lard-brain’s constant lecturing on the subject of how to correctly increase your consciousness wasn’t half as brutal as what Bruce said about Fat Boy and yet no one complained for a second in that instance.”

    I think the blog would have benefitted from Bruce in the past few days (not that it hasn’t all the other times). Bruce, hope you are doing well…


  6. ‘ton “One of the first things we learn is that the power of particular beliefs depends in large measure on the nature of belief being left unquestioned and unexamined.”

    ‘ton, yes, thank you for an amazing post. Lots to ponder here. I have been interested in how to become aware of submerged, unconscious belief patterns. Following collective unconscious visual thinking threads has been of particular interest for me. Do you have any comment on the deep belief patterns we have that are not directly accessible to us? Once we become dimly aware, then intentional ignorance is a buffer, but how to become even dimly aware in the first place?


  7. 5

    I think it’s clear that nothing anyone can say is going to effect any changes from either Graduates or Fat Boy.


  8. 532 Fat Boy:”Graduate wrote in 527, ‘wasn’t half as brutal as what Bruce said about Fat Boy and yet no one complained for a second in that instance.’ Good point Graduates. We have a very inconsistent and hypicritical crowd here. ”

    First of all, welcome back. Also, I have to say I half way agree with your comment above. I don’t agree with Graduates’ claim that his comments re A Former Student weren’t half as brutal as Bruce’s comments re Fat Boy. There were about twice as repulsive because they were much more personal. But I do agree that the negative comments re Fat Boy were in the same ball park, just different in degree, and it’s hypocritical to condemn one and not the other. I don’t find any of the personal abuse educational or entertaining, though I realise I’m probably in a minority. Joseph’s suggestion about personal attacks (537) sounds reasonable.

    534 Life Person. Thanks for your response. A very nice post! A small caveat: I’m not sure I agree there’s a need to “try to heal others”. Seems to me this happens of its own accord or not at all.


  9. ‘ton #5 and previous similar ones

    Would you tell us where from you are copying those long posts? Some of us seem to be confused about who the author is.

    Thanks


  10. 1 Graduates: the Esoteirc Sheik of Inner Confusion

    “Please do keep your ego, your pride and your opinions out of the discussion and the moderation”.

    Hi Graduates,
    There is no difference between the Sheik, you or I in this discussion and he can put as much of his ego, pride and opinions in it as anyone of us, if he wishes to risk having them turned around, cut into pieces and remolded as anyone of us. (Bottomline is, he can also send us for a walk and find someone else to play with and we will have lost an opportunity.)

    Getting trimmed is what we are here for whether we like it or not. Words are the expression of our inner branches and it is the job of the community to keep each individual’s branches trimmed when they start growing without purpose. Had we done this in the Fellowship we would not still have Robert growing inside our veins. Were we mature, really mature, there would be no need to have anyone banned from the public square but any community can take only so much abuse.

    This far, I much trust the Sheik’s work and another possibility rather than voting may be that whoever gets too abusive does not have the possibility to post immediately like we’ve been doing but all his posts are stopped and checked by the Sheik when he can do so. Basically the Sheik is a lot less identified with our fellowship plays, so his moderation tends to be more objective.

    As for you and Fat Boy and anyone who thinks there is an argument to have with the Sheik here, you are probably having some authority issue unresolved for there is no place for quarrel where someone is serving you and if you have not noticed that, what are you noticing?

    What is your aim? As far as I understand, the main aim of this blog is to question the Fellowship of Friends and a secondary aim is to hold on to each other in that wild ride. The third option, in which each one of us individually offers a bit of themselves to be appreciated or trimmed by others is a wonderful opportunity but not really the issue here and if some of us wish to throw stones at each other, we do have private e-mails to accomplish that so it may be worth asking, what makes any one of us want to throw stones at another in public if not to show that we are better than the other?

    True, this is what we’ve been doing to the Fellowship, Robert, Girard and so many more, but the personal issues are intertwined with the community issues and appear relevant. Where they haven’t been relevant, we have also been trimmed.

    I do not enjoy when Robert is made fun of by Daily Card. Exposing his sexuality as an offense to a community is one thing but exposing his dick so that I have to look at it every day as a subject of laughter is a very different one. On this blog we can see much of ourselves and at least wonder what currents within us become inclined for the different possibilities.

    The issue is not to have a moderator but to moderate ourselves individually because we have come to respect the public square as the expression of our understanding that it is in the public square where we can all share each other’s presence, expose our selves and allow for the trimming. This is what we were so brutally denied in the Fellowship of Friends and were therefor, unable to develop. Please Graduates and Fat Boy and Elena and any one out there whose balance between his individuality and his community is lost, don’t stop us from developing it now that we are still here and expect us to put up with branches full of thorns, taking other people’s space. Expect us to trim them with as much objective joy as a gardener who knows where to stop.


  11. Another Earnest Effort For Truth and Healing:

    14/15 August, 2007

    Dear Friends,
    For nearly eight years, I was the wife of a “conscious being.” I witnessed the man I loved in grave psycho-spiritual decline. What happened to him is a tragedy. But what followed taught me a great deal about the organization of which I had been a member for 28 years.

    My requests for help met buck-passing, denial, and rebuff; I was effectively silenced. The organization continued to enable and market this deeply troubled man for its own fundraising purposes. It is apparent that a few decision-makers know the truth, but the top priority is that the show must go on. Clearly, after this experience, it was time to go back to the drawing board, and reexamine everything I knew and had believed.
    When confronted with a lie of this magnitude, and the way it was managed by the organization, it’s a reasonable assumption that you haven’t stumbled across the only deception, or the biggest one. It would be facile to say I “uncovered” pandemic abuse, cowardice, dishonesty, and corruption – but perhaps they had always been in front of my face. Perhaps I merely stopped buffering them as side-issues. Certainly some situations have worsened over the years. In any case, I saw that vices and fraud are sanctioned at the top, imitated by others, and now inextricably entwined in the organizational DNA.
    It’s one thing to tolerate these abuses for free. It’s another to finance them. Our checkbooks give assent and approval, as well as enabling their perpetuation.
    Should I describe them in more detail, you would dismiss them as exaggerations. You would euphemize and excuse these facts as peripheral to a Grand Central Truth, as I once did. “Being present” is used as a drug to buffer accountability, which necessarily occurs over time.

    Hence, I don’t know what to say anymore that might reach you. If I mention what I learned from my personal experiences, you will dismiss me as unable to “transform.” If I am emotional at all, you will accuse me of being “in the queens.” If I am not emotional, I will be in my king of clubs, or my “lower self,” or whatever the current jargon is. If I refer to any standard of decent human behavior that has held through all centuries in all societies, you will dismiss it reductively as “feminine dominance” or “morality I’s.” I hunt for words so that I won’t, as I am leaving, trigger associations that you will characterize as “the same old thing” – knowing you will refuse to consider that “the same old thing” might simply be the stubborn truth, and that’s why it persistently resurfaces. And if all else fails, the “worse for me if I am right.” Clearly, I won’t be heard. However, that does not absolve me of the obligation to speak. It does not exonerate my obligation to apologize.

    I ask your forgiveness for my complicity, even as a spokeswoman for this organization. I ask your pardon for my own culpability in the spiritual destruction of so many others. My life has miraculously recovered, emotionally and spiritually, beyond anything I have merited – I earnestly wish the same remarkable regeneration for each of you.

    What Gurdjieff calls “objective remorse” is not painless – but I promise that once you swallow the bitter pill, clarity follows. Have courage, and you will attract the help you need. On the other side of the anguish, grief, and fear, you will find gratitude, too – gratitude that you faced the truth even if it’s five minutes before your death, rather than five seconds after. I intend to spend my remaining time on this earth pursuing more diligently than ever the aims that brought me here.
    I cannot say farewell, because my door remains open to you. I accept that yours may not be. Others have been patient with me; I will be patient with you. Above all, I am not trying to sell you anything.

    Keep your eyes open. Don’t take any wooden nickels. Tell the truth. Listen to your conscience. Vaya con Dios (n., sing.)

    Yours,
    XXXXXXXX

    “In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

    — Martin Luther King, Jr.


  12. 10

    “I do not enjoy when Robert is made fun of by Daily Card. Exposing his sexuality as an offense to a community is one thing but exposing his dick so that I have to look at it every day as a subject of laughter is a very different one.”

    One can laugh or one can cry.

    Satire is not meant to me easily palatable. Personally, I enjoy laughing at myself and my occasional stupidity and gullibility. It’s probably partially a “guy” thing (course but intelligent humor). And of course there is the historic aspect of the smut limerick reflecting different time periods in man’s history.

    Elena, you KNOW that when you see “Daily Card” in the title the following is not going to be to your liking. You know what to do. But surely you are not suggesting artistic censorship. And surely you aren’t suggesting respect for RB’s “paraphanalia”.


  13. Dear Innernaught (#19-454 or thereabouts),
    Thank you for reading my post, giving it some thought, and responding.

    I don’t see it as my job particularly to defend myself or to keep myself up to some standard that you perceive, but to advance the conversation. Nevertheless, I can see that, from one point of view, I have overstated my case, in that I did not sufficiently differentiate the general from the particular. I didn’t mean to write off all priests as individuals, but priesthood (maybe better invent a new word, ‘priestliness’) as a phenomenon. I wanted to present the idea that there is a weakness in us (in general) that invites others to solve our problems for us, rather than taking responsibility and making the necessary efforts to do so ourselves. In spiritual areas, this seems quite rampant, and the wish to offload responsibility invites the creation of the priesthood, intermediaries who ‘know better’ and can provide answers. I know that ‘priest’ is a loaded word for some, possibly for you, but I can’t think of a better. Another way of putting it might be, that our culture seems to be built on authoritarian structures, mostly male–dominated, so there is no reason to except religion.

    You also mentioned the people who ‘routinely work to make the world a better place’, and this has stimulated me to start writing an essay on the nature of ‘help’, mechanical goodness, and related thoughts, which I may post later.

    With best wishes,
    Ames


  14. 11

    Should be:

    “Satire is not meant to be…”


  15. 12 Ames

    “I don’t see it as my job particularly to defend myself or to keep myself up to some standard that you perceive, but to advance the conversation.”

    You are right of course, and I regretted saying that. So I apologize. I think that I, as you say, may have overstated my case with that and was being perhaps a bit oversensitive, which is one of my most pervasive and annoying characteristics.

    As to the idea of differentiating the general from the particular, I think that was what I was trying to say, in a long-winded way. I agree that our society is rampant with insidious authoritarian cultures, a model that the Fellowship of Friends fits all too readily, but I guess I was just offering my experiences where there are exceptions to the rule.

    Thanks very much.

    PS: I’ve noticed that you consistently spell my screen name “Innernaught,” as opposed to the correct “Innernaut.” The former implies inner nothingness, rather than the “inner explorer” that I was going for (like astro-naut — explorer of space). I know it’s silly to point it out, since it’s only a pseudonym, but, like I said, I’m absurdly over-sensitive. :-)


  16. 8 Rhino Neal

    I’m not sure whether to interpret your comment about there perhaps not being a need to try to heal others as “stuff just happens so there’s really no such thing as trying,” or as “it makes no difference whether we try to heal others because whatever we do in this world is OK and we shouldn’t judge ourselves for trying, or not trying, to do anything,” or both–“the whole notion of trying is an illusion so the trying/not trying dichotomy merely leads to counterproductive self-criticism,” or something else that I don’t yet understand. If you feel the urge to elaborate, please do.

    On a purely personal, subjective level, without reference to any system of belief about what is applicable to anyone other than myself or any philosophy of the Way Things Really Are, I don’t judge myself or others for making or not making such efforts, but when I make them, I feel I am doing what is most appropriate as a human being. Decades of philosophizing and systematizing have led me to feel that, at the end of the day, everyone is better off if I just try to be of service to the best of my ability.


  17. Thanks Innernaut for the clarification of your name, I always wondered…

    AMES, I’m enjoying that thread you’re pulling and while very much harmonize with Innernaut’s presentation of priests, I do wonder whether it is priests or teachers or parents who are to lead as “authorities” in our times. Is not what is needed, the authority of each individual so that dictators, parents, priests, do not take advantage of their position? And yet an individual who can respond against abuse and at the same time stand for the whole? Traditional, authoritarian, patriarchal hierarchy impregnates every institution in our times and the freedom to choose what is right is stripped away from every individual, justified with the benefit of the institution behind, (subconsciously, the benefit of the whole) but in practice, the benefit of the authority at the head, put there not because of his morality or capacity or consciousness but because of his money and the power that comes with it.

    BRUCE, definitely not censorship and as I said, humor is not my strength since I find there are very few things in this world that merit a good laugh which is probably why I enjoy it so much more when I do find one.

    Satire has to be extremely fine to not become what it is making a satire of and in each other’s company becoming finer is what I think is worth attempting. Again, the best moderation is no moderation but inner restrain where necessary.

    Love to you Bruce and thank you for every bit of your self.


  18. And love to you Elena.


  19. Brain Police. I found the text you chose extremely enlightening, I hope you don’t mind my reposting it here and stating some parallels. It is such a joy for me to see us exploring this world together. So many of you have posted such valuable insights into understanding what happened to us, what is happening to us. I’m sorry if I’ve already taken the space for three posts today but if I really addressed everything of value that is on the blog I would be posting thirty a day! Thank you all.

    I see you, and you see me. I experience you, and you experience me. I see your behavior. You see my behavior. But I do not and never have and never will see your experience of me… Experience is man’s invisibility to man. [At the same time] it is more evident than anything. Only experience is evident. Experience is the only evidence… Our behavior is a function of our experience. We act according to the way we see things… Natural science knows nothing of the relation between behavior and experience. The nature of this relation is mysterious. (P, 18-19)

    behavior is what we can observe each other doing,
    but experience is what happens to us inside the behavior observed

    This distinction becomes even more emphatic when framed in the context of belief. Belief drives behavior, but often belief is not based on experience and so does not reach or reflect the intimately lived dimension of human existence. Indeed, the very nature of belief precludes the necessity of experience. I can believe, for instance, that Jesus sits on the right hand of God in heaven, and simply by believing it I do not have to experience it, do not have to put it to the test or search for evidence to prove it is so. I believe it is so, that’s all, and that is sufficient to cause me to act in a certain way based on the belief I hold.

    {Definitely what happens in the Fellowship that everyone starts acting in a certain way with the belief excuse and justification that Robert is a conscious being}

    ……What is most subjective about us, that upon which both our personal identity and our sense of humanity depend, is a capacity to experience that can be destroyed. Factoring this idea into the primary assumption of metahistory (namely, that belief drives behavior), we may begin to comprehend that behavior is driven by belief precisely because the capacity for experience has been superceded by the willingness to believe without the evidence of direct experiencing. Considered in this light, beliefs in and about God (or anything else) may be derived from the incapacity to experience what God actually is. Someone who can experience God in a direct and evidential way no longer needs to hold beliefs in or about God.

    The English word behave traces back to Middle High German, sich behaben, literally “self be-having or be-holding.” To behave is to have a view of yourself behaving in a certain manner, and probably to derive a sense of self from the behavior so enacted.

    {This is so very revealing of what happens in the Fellowship. The main indoctrination in the Fellowship, the most dangerous and pervasive one is not in the doctrine as much as in the behavior. It IS THE BEHAVIOR WHAT IS GIVING STUDENTS A SENSE OF ORDER AND STABILITY that is so attractive. It is the pretty clothes and the pretty gardens what people don’t wish to let go of but pretty clothes and gardens at the cost of assuming one’s own EXPERIENCE of the world is basic INDOCTRINATION and it is so overwhelmingly sad to see people’s lives spill out of their hands.}

    This notion is not entirely trustworthy, however. It represents a concept of human identity that has been challenged in modern psychology relating to abuse and addiction. One of the guiding principles of recovery therapy is that you are not your behavior, although you are responsible for your behavior. Laing would probably concur with the semantics here. Consistent with his distinction, it can be said that you are the subject of your experience, not the result of your behavior. If you are truly living from experience, from the unlimited capacity to grow, learn and evolve, then you will be continually transcending the limits of behavior. In conventional terms, the most obvious sign of behavior is habit, custom, the usual way of doing things. It represents a form of conditioned response induced or programmed from outside. Such conditioning works against the innate capacity for experience.

    {What this last paragraph is so accurately describing is the process any one of us who worked on himself had to go through which was, to give up our behavior to adopt Fellowship behavior. It is basic separation from identification with one’s programming. The horror in the Fellowship is that identification with ourselves was replaced by identification with Robert, our own behavior as an expression of our beliefs was replaced by Robert’s stated behavior as an expression of his beliefs and lost and worse, ARE LOOSING rapidly all those who are still there, the possibility of their own EXPERIENCING. }

    To live in behavior and identify oneself with behavior is to become alienated from one’s own experience, yet this emphasis on behavior (custom, habit, preprogrammed activity) is precisely the mark of belief-driven activity. People who hold the same beliefs will act in the same (predictable, customary) ways, and they will identify strongly with those ways. Their behavior will prevail because their capacity to experience has been severely compromised, if not destroyed.

    This entire trajectory of development would not have been possible if the quest for transcendence from the blocking of the ego-self had not been diverted into a quest of the ego-self to transcend nature. (By “blocking of the ego-self,” I mean the psychological necessity of the social ego to turn off its connection with nature so that it can develop a field of human-based, culture-oriented relations. Genuine transcendence, such as was offered in the Mystery School initiations, involved temporary dissolving of the ego-blocks and melting of self-consciousness so that nature is once again encountered as the numinous source of life.)
    {This paragraph is so relevant because the experience in the Fellowship “involuted” instead of evolving. Students did not dissolve the ego to embrace nature or community, we dissolved the ego to embrace the Fellowship, Robert, a community in which we could not participate as wholesome human beings. The difficulty in healing once outside is that it is a fact that our ego is much dissolved and what replaced it, is destroyed and filling the void takes time and is for some of us, painstakingly difficult.

    In our case, I think nature is in the back ground as the great stage of the Gods but humanity is in the foreground as the great stage of culture. The possibility of transcending the ego-self of the individual “to develop a field of human-based, culture-oriented relations” a “community” is still the option even if it is not a community of students but of students creating community wherever they happen to be, which is really no different to the initial attraction towards THE ARC. Only, Robert turned the human Arc into his very personal boat ride.}

    Behavioral cloning is extremely deceptive because the high degree of conformity it demands gives the impression of order and stability. Yet a society driven by behavioral cloning will, sooner or later, enter the path of catastrophic breakdown. Behavioral cloning is the norm in societies where the ruling powers are blindly driven to pathological extremes.


  20. 15 Life Person
    17, 19 Elena

    Thanks for your recent posts. Very interesting and enlightening.


  21. Elena, the link I posted in 16, in response to Opus111’s request, was to the website from which ‘ton has been selecting his posts from the last few days, so any credit for that material goes to ‘ton. But I did enjoy your post. I’m not sure I agree with your statement that “it is a fact that our ego is much dissolved.” I suspect it was as much strengthened as weakened.


  22. 15 Life Person.

    Thanks for your thoughtful comments. Maybe these days there’s more emphasis on “stuff just happens so there’s really no such thing as trying”, largely because there’s really no such thing as me.

    cheers, RN


  23. on August 30, 2007 at 10:10 pm Dream Catcher

    “There is nothing more dreadful than doubt. Doubt separates people. It is a poison that disintegrates friendships and breaks up pleasant relations. It is a thorn that irritates and hurts; it is a sword that kills.”
    Budha

    The fellowship of friends is now a place of mistrust


  24. Recently Purchasing Awakening and others have expressed serious concern about the future of the FoF. I personally find this very legitimate, and I can only hope that current members will disentangle themselves as soon as possible from what is more and more clearly Robert’s final descent into his personal hell. I have been playing with some personal visions and scenarios, and I’d like to share a few. The following are very personal considerations, please bear in mind that I am not at all an expert in the mythical fields in delve into and that the following are really just the moonstruck excretions of my sometimes overactive mind.

    I find it fascinating to view the external changes in the form of the school as signs of Robert’s pathological narcissitic progression. The name changes of the property can be seen as significant keys to his particular state of mind. At the beginning of our history we ascend to Mount Carmel, sacred mountain to the prophet Elijah and to a number of masculine gods: Baal, Zeus, the God of Israel. Carmel is also a symbol of fertility and prosperity, and is associated with the virgin Mary. The name is usually interpreted as meaning “the vineyard or garden of God”. These are the fruitful, pioneer days, trasforming the land into vineyard and the students into grapevine. It is a time of camaraderie and of life in the wilderness, a time of shared struggles, a time of enthusiasm and enormous efforts. Robert is becoming more competent with his influence as a teacher and he starts approaching his students for sexual favors. At this point he is very good at keeping it quiet, and the more he discovers that he can get away with it, the more his nocturnal, predatorial nature keeps growing like weeds.

    As soon as he can, RB, by now Robert Burton aka The Teacher, starts moving away from the place’s rough nature, from which he is totally disconnected anyway. He can bear very little of natural life, except in the stifled and civilized form of flower arrangements, bonsais and dwarf palms, and miniature poodles with bulgy eyes. RB also moves away from his students, as his little secret grows larger and larger. He needs a new place for himself and his favorites. He starts an endless chain of constructions and exhausting renovations, architectural fantasies, cathedrals in the desert, like so many absolute monarchs before him. We have moved to the Renaissance, a more classical society, a sophisticated synonym for rebirth. It is a very good name, one that allows him to indulge in his Leonardo fetish, harmonizing his Bernard Berenson inspired aesthetics with his regressive inner move towards paganism. Robert has magically shape-shifted into an Medici prince, a Greek scholar: he travels to Europe and buys antiques, he leads Symposiums for his beloveds, he pours them wine amongst the roses and clothes them in soft and silky Italian garments. He also encourages the arts, but only if they pertain to the past. But somehow even this is not good enough, the burden of teaching is becoming heavy. Robert the slut wants funfunfun, and he cannot stand the moral pressure of the stare of his adoring students. He starts looking for condos away fron the crowd, secluded golden retreats in Palm Springs and Tahoe. He wants to stay with his boys, all else has become a nuisance. Luckily he has Girard, who is willing to help him carry his cross as much as humanly and inhumanly possible.

    Slowly, fade back in time, adjust the vision, aim a little higher, way up there, where the Sun God of Greece himself doeth shine. There is no sign of place anymore, no community. No Apolloville. The whole space is occupied by an archetypal figure, a young beautiful solar god, our pederastic emperor’s wet dream. Interestingly enough, Apollo is also a very pure, controlled, masculine god. It goes well with the daily side of the FoF, the daily cards and daily duties, the manicured gardens and unending octaves, the constant perfecting of details. “Efforts, more efforts” shouts the Queen from her castle. Oh yes, the proud and lofty, controlled and unfallible Priest/King, so much unlike his Dyonisian shadow, has transformed into a Queen, a deadly Medusa, an irresistible Siren. The truth is now in semi-open view, and RB keeps shamelessly pushing his debauched lifestyle upon his students, while at the same time continuously reaffirming his role as supreme infallible decision maker. The students are condemned to compensate for the collapse of RB’s conscience, they are constantly encouraged to keep making the efforts and sacrifices and exerce the self control that he is evermore unable to accomplish. The vampirization of his student’s essences increases exponentially, but he is never satisfied. The Teacher has actually relocated himself to that most horrible Buddhist Realm, the land of the Hungry Ghosts, characterized by greed, insatiable cravings and addictions. The Insatiable Queen is a Gollum,who wanders the soundproof chambers of her/his secret dungeon cooing “my precious, my precious” to the ring.

    One more trick out of the hat, and lo and behold, the time machine moves back a few millennia and lands in the most sacred soil of the land of Egypt, in the sacred temples where the primal goddess herself dwells, beautiful all-powerful Isis, lady of life, love, maternal nourishment and great lady of the underworld. This name has evidently no factual relation with the lifestyle and values ecouraged within the community, nor with the Robert that others can see or worship, his outward persona. I think he uses it as a magic word and invocation against the all-evil king of clubs, a secret formula, an incantation, absolutely self-referential and self-delusional,

    “Isis, represented in the Song of Solomon by the dark maid of Jerusalem, is symbolic of receptive nature – the watery, maternal principle which creates all things out of herself after impregnation has been achieved by the virility of the sun” (Manly P. Hall, Masonic, Hermetic, Quabbalistic & Rosicrucian Symbolical Philosophy).

    “Let the blood of Isis, and the magical powers (or spirits) of Isis, and the words of power of Isis, be mighty to protect and keep safely this great god, and to guard him from him that would do unto him anything which he abominateth.”
    From the Egyptian boook of the Dead

    “Renowned for her skillful use of witchcraft and magic, Isis was particularly remembered by the Ancient Egyptians as ‘strong of tongue’, that is being in command of words of power ‘which she knew with correct pronunciation, and halted not in her speech, and was perfect both in giving the command and in saying the word’ ‘Egyptian Magic’. In short she was believed, by means of her voice alone, to be capable of bending reality and overriding the laws of physics” (Graham Hancock, Fingerprints of the Gods).

    But the procreation is not taking place, the Fisher King rules over a wasteland, the vines are dying, the children are leaving, the gold is dwindling. A dark shadow is breathing on Robert-Isis’s neck, he is scared, even his own predictions scare him, no more Armageddon and sequence of civilizations to dream of, the time is getting shorther and shorter, long be, short be… There is only the Divine Present left , the Journey Forth to Isis never really reaches its goal, the energy is declining, the body is decaying, the pleasure is ever more painful. The shadow has taken over, the king of clubs is tightening its grip.

    The Teacher has now moved beyond the realm of potentially meaningful human interaction. His students, and humanity at large, are mere objects, shadows, receptacles and inseminators, totally replaceable. The only experience the Robert-Isis chimera cares about is to worship the lingam. Not being able to emotionally resonate with the suffering of the community, and with the losses and deaths of his friends, he is just unable to spare a thought about any of this. Life as we mean it is actually meaningless to him at his point. Enslaved by his own demons, the insatiable vacuum of existential terror engulfs him. He cannot tell the truth, to ANYONE, so he’ll have to invent a lie. A bigger lie. One that is really unbeatable.

    Now, what is the next inevitable move? The future is no option, since the future is murder. The present continues to elude. He goes even further in the past, some tens of millennias, into the caves of prehistory, where he is finally transfigured into the Divine Teacher. Here, in the fickle light of torches, he can still find traces of himself. Pubic hair, feces, long and short penises, sequences of numbers. But to no avail. The mirror is black, the stately home has turned into a labirynth. The king of clubs, the Bull-headed minotaur, the antediluvian crocodile is about to take his revenge. It’s swift and cunning, and runs always behind him, past the driver licenses and the 44 motel signs, past the meissen statuettes and the KY jelly, past the armani suits and the sounds of sucking, no matter how far backwards he runs, relentless pursuing, a dark ominous shadow. Will the murderous beast-king finally succeed in destroying the sinful bitch, the vulptuous mother? I have my own answer to that question, and it’s not a pretty one. I think that by now Robert’s split has reached cataclysmic proportions, and he’s not there to love anyone or listen to anyone or to stop any of his destructive behaviour. Whe are entering psycho territory here. I really wish he somehow gets another chance. I hope his students take good care of themselves and steer their ships away from the maelstrom.
    Paradise is getting close indeed.


  25. # 4 in a series of posts joining the Journey Forth to Isis celebrations.

    Oceania
    One breath away from mother Oceanía
    Your nimble feet make prints in my sands
    You have done good for yourselves
    Since you left my wet embrace
    And crawled ashore
    Every boy, is a snake is a lily
    Every pearl is a lynx, is a girl
    Sweet like harmony made into flesh
    You dance by my side
    Children sublime
    You show me continents
    I see islands
    You count the centuries
    I blink my eyes
    Hawks and sparrows race in my waters
    Stingrays are floating
    Across the sky
    Little ones, my sons and my daughters
    Your sweat is salty
    I am why
    I am why
    I am why
    Your sweat is salty
    I am why
    I am why
    I am why

    Of all the human beings I know on this planet, Björk is the one that most closely resembles a creature from outer space. And a nature goddess. And an elf queen. Some people think she’s just too wacky, I personally consider her one of the greatest female artists of this century. Her videos are usually outstandingly beautiful and creative. This one is her live performance at the opening of the 2004 Athens summer Olympics.


  26. Robert raises money tirelessly

    Love Malcolm

    Raising funds in leu of teaching payments overdue
    Bob filled his rectum with glue.
    He said, anticipating bum action with a grin
    “Good money they will pay to get in,
    and they will surely pay to get out of it, too.”


  27. **Now available for a limited time only**

    Own your own copy of complete Daily Cards bound in calf skin and embossed in gold with “We love Malcolm“ in authentic, Old Kingdom style, hieroglyphs on the cover

    Signed by Malcolm, or someone who has been duly deputized by him for this duty, with a personal dictation of your choice. Please choose from the list below:

    1. In loving recognition of the sloppy noises we made together and gratitude for the fresh protein shake.
    2. You didn’t go to the police when you had the chance and I promise you to be more careful about giving you the chance again.
    3. For outstanding valor in the face of an old man.
    4. Remember, I will be the second person you meet in paradise – after my pimp of the moment – he’s going to arrange everything for you.
    5. You are one of the many hundreds who have kept patching this boat with your positive attitudes, unflinching support, hard work and donations. May this compilation of Daily Cards remind you of what you have been keeping afloat.

    $$$ Pay with any of these mediums of exchange: Hard Cash (preferred), time payment, credit card, promissory notes and guarantees as long as legally binding to your heirs unto the 7th generation, the title to your home or land, your teenage daughter’s hand in marriage to someone of my choosing, your wife’s fully involved attendance at two of the Galleria’s hetro ‘Romanian Saunas’ in the bathhouse, the dumping of your aged parents and desertion of your children (an amazing double offer you can’t refuse), or if you are too cheap to pay, then I will take your soul and keep the change, ching..ching… $$$

    Show your sincere valuation for sacred influence ‘C’ and buy a reduced price bumper sticker declaring ‘We love Malcolm’. For those who have it all including the personalized number plate we recommend tattooing ‘We love Malcolm’ on your eyelids so that you are less likely to be given a leave of absence if they should drop during one of our sacred teaching events.

    Remember I will love you throughout eternity and hope you will continue to support me in the manner to which I have become accustomed for as long as we both shall live, Amen.


  28. Laura (24)

    Masterfully put.

    After many years of taking for granted that whatever I might think of it, the Fellowship will continue in much the same way it has, that nightmare scenarios aren’t realistic for this particular cult, and that the worst case scenario is that most people leave and Robert is left with a cultette of the hard-core, I, too, have lately found myself thinking that this may not be true. With Armageddon a dud and the Ark an anachronistic 70’s new-age fantasy, no likelihood that any further predictions will be believed even by the faithful, and even the prospect of carrying the torch of the Fourth Way to posterity fallen by the wayside, what does Robert have left as a cosmic organizing principle to keep the flock together?

    Sure, some will continue to believe the Fellowship is the “only conscious school on Earth” or some such fairy tale, but even that is looking threadbare, with the makeover that seems to want to ride the coattails of the Power of Now. I’m not predicting a huge wave of departures (although it wouldn’t surprise me), but it does seem more than likely that the old magic just isn’t going to work much longer, blog or no blog. Even those that desperately want to believe can’t long push away the knowledge that the “teaching” has become gibberish, and that their “teacher” has some seriously inconvenient personal issues.

    What’s an aging chicken hawk to do? Step aside, hand over the keys to Gerard and live out his days in a villa, surrounded by boys in silk? Maybe, but that attributes rationality and humility to someone whose track record in those departments is spotty. And even if he did, Gerard hasn’t the flair, charisma, or inspiration to run anything like the Fellowship except as a robotic lieutenant.

    Things may get edgy as folks start sidling over to the exits.


  29. 11 is newly moderated.

    Graduates: The fact that you felt the need to react to what I said earlier shows that you could also benefit from leaving your ego and pride out of the discussion. All the best to you (except for the preaching and personal attacks).


  30. Brain Police, That is fine, should have used I instead of our for that is what I often experience as I try to find out where the next step is.


  31. “The Golden State”

    You are the lump in my throat,
    I am the aching in your heart,
    We are tangled, we are stolen,
    We are living where things are hidden…

    We are luck, we are fate,
    We are the feeling you get in the Golden State,
    We are love, we are hate,
    We are the feeling I get
    When you walk away, walk away.

    You are the dream in my nightmare,
    I am that falling sensation,
    You are my needles and pins,
    I am your hangover morning,
    We are tangled, we are stolen,
    We are living where things are hidden…

    We are the feeling I get when you walk away,
    Walk away, walk away…

    -John Doe and Cindy Wasserman
    from the recently released “A Year in the Wilderness”


  32. and an old song:

    …Every breath you take
    Every move you make
    Every bond you break
    Every step you take
    I’ll be watching you.

    Every single day
    Every word you say
    Every game you play
    Every night you stay
    I’ll be watching you….


  33. and one more old song…

    You consider me the young apprentice
    Caught between the scylla and charybidis
    Hypnotized by you if I should linger
    Staring at the ring around your finger

    I have only come here seeking knowledge
    Things they wouldnt teach me of in college
    I can see the destiny you sold
    Turned into a shining band of gold

    I’ll be wrapped around your finger
    I’ll be wrapped around your finger

    Mephistopheles is not your name
    But I know what you’re up to just the same
    I will listen hard to intuition
    And you will see it come to its fruition

    I’ll be wrapped around your finger
    I’ll be wrapped around your finger

    Devil and the deep blue sea behind me
    Vanish in the air you’ll never find me
    I will turn your flesh to alabaster
    Then you will find your servant is your master

    And you’ll be wrapped around my finger…


  34. CVB (11)
    Wow. Your letter was very powerful. A really moving testimony. I hope you sent it out to every current member of the Fellowship. I don’t see how they could read it and not be affected. Well done.

    Laura (25 and 26)
    Your ponderings about the future of the FOF were brilliant. If these are “the moonstruck excretions” of your “sometimes over active mind”, keep ’em coming. One of your best out of many previous good ones. Also, I loved the Bjork lyrics. She’s awesome. Thanks


  35. Hey Laura ~

    You wrote/quoted ~

    “Renowned for her skillful use of witchcraft and magic, Isis was particularly remembered by the Ancient Egyptians as ’strong of tongue’,”
    _________________

    Well, now we know why it’s called Isis…. thanks;

    RB’s in da place on that one (or is it two?)

    ______________________________________________

    Hello ‘ton ~

    You have no idea how ‘hail to the heavens’ I was for you to find out that all that material was not yours; it’s good to record your source when quoting, otherwise you might be mistaken for a Fellowship of Friends non-ex-member, so to speak.

    ____________________________________________

    CVB ~

    Hey girl! Bring those stories on us, don’t be afraid, they show the ‘deeds’ and allow others to get closer to sharing there’s as well, people leave that dungeon from reading about the fact that there’s no locks on the doors;

    too the FBI monitoring this site, not to mention a few lawyers and law students salivating on their Horn Books, need more material, the Oregon House community at large would fair well too to have them, more material for a community legal action against this Harem of Hepatitis A through Z;

    and all those responses from the Fellowship of Friends side of the reader list, you spoke of possibly occurring, well, deep down they’ll take the stories in nonetheless, let your stories shake awake their conscience… after all, it’s your profession now, a little practice makes the heart full… Looking forwards to reading your offerings.

    __________________________________

    l.t.y.a.


  36. Compliments of Ice Ice Satin Satire Solicitations
    ______________________________________

    Robert ~ Dear, Goodness, what’s that in your front pocket?

    Student (Undercover agent for the FBI) ~ Well, it could be three things, my salami, Bel Aire’s salami or tall can of pepper spray.

    Robert ~ Oooooo… Spicy!


  37. Hello ‘Brain Police’ ~

    You wrote ~

    “Gerard hasn’t the flair, charisma, or inspiration to run anything like the Fellowship except as a robotic lieutenant.”

    ______________________________________________

    Boy, that line gave me the Hebbie Geebies… if that’s what you think is “run” and the ‘qualities’ Robert Burton possesses in manhandling the Innocence of Essence, I’d beg you not to disclose what your idea is of ‘standing still’ is. (Yet, I think Robert Burton has already done that one for ya.)

    _______________________________________________

    :.}


  38. re: 34 unianimo

    i was under the impression that current students of the fof were able to access the blog (?) if current and ‘non ex members’ (as you put it) are not looking at the material here, then it’s ‘preaching to the choir.’ if that’s the case, please let me know.

    thanks to brain police for posting the site.


  39. Uno (36)

    Oh, please, Uno, just tell me how to write posts just like you. Asshole.


  40. Hey Uno (36)

    You may have forgotten where you yourself came from, and that much of what you write is a reaction to what you became in the FoF.


  41. 39

    I have not forgotten, my friend, nor have I forgotten that neither of us have any real idea where one another “came from”; truly Embrace This, if it were that easy and absolute to categorize one another like that I would not be contributing to this blog, yet, profundities are more covenant than deep consideration for one another’s ‘origins’… Good luck with your ‘snap shots’ and smug ‘I gotcha, Catch 22’s’; I threw all my ‘coveted-I told you so-photographs and negatives in the toilet a long time ago. (Oh and flushed it too.)

    Remember, we’re not dead yet, so take it easy on the ‘obituary dope’.

    ____________________________________________

    ‘ton ~ I was referring to the idea that the Fellowship of Friends often publish material under their auspices, yet, it’s actually not theirs, i.e., a sort of indifferent plagiarism; not that (that) was your intent, though a few ” ” marks would help us understand your ‘tent’ better, at least for me.

    _____________________________________________

    Brain Police ~

    It’s good to know that your out on the streets at night, walking your beat, I sleep more cozy knowing that the footsteps I hear in the alleyway are yours… love you too.


  42. Is Asaf in prison yet?
    Is REB in prison yet?

    This earlier FoF Blog post worth repost:

    Grand Bizarre Incident Detector
    [Or, was it just Influence C?]

    How can one not deceive oneself?
    In the second state one is deceiving oneself, because one is not present.

    What I notice is that as the shock is
    persisting, and as the time is advancing, we have to keep reaffirming
    not-resenting. …I remember that now
    it is our turn to undergo friction.
    Other students each have their own turn,
    and at times it is the teacher’s turn.

    Influence C have artificially applied them [shocks] into their and our roles to transform. One always has to take Influence C on their own terms, and that is how they will get us to Paradise. We are very lucky Influence C take the time to help us escape; who are we that they would take the time to help us? And why we of all others? One area you all have to watch is the group of ‘I’s that is concerned about myself in such situations. Remember that I will be doing my work.

    The machine judges by external achievements.
    Robert Burton

    Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:28 AM
    Subject: From Asaf: Our San Francisco Experience

    Dear Friends,

    Asaf’s computer has been stolen upon their arrival to London and with it his address book.

    He asked me to send this email, regarding their experience in San Francisco Airport, to you all.

    Please note that there is a picture attached:

    With Love,
    Yoad
    yoadr….r@yahoo.com

    ‘These people are walking carelessly towards their gate. They do not suspect there is a challenge even to this moment–to be present to it.’

    We were making our way from the security check-point to the gate, and in this hall Robert called our attention to the dozens of passengers carelessly hurrying to their flights. We were a group of six travelers altogether; Robert, Carlos, Dorian, Mihai, Dmitry S and myself. Robert now being a senior citizen, he and I advanced to the head of the cue and pre-boarded. Our seats were almost at the back of the aircraft. The plane was scheduled to take off at 16:30, that is, in half and hour, and after working on some notes the fatigue caught up with us and we decided to rest for a while. I woke up suddenly, hearing my name being announced in the loudspeaker alongside the rest of our traveling group. We were asked to advance to the entrance of the aircraft. Dorian went first to check what the misunderstanding might be, and upon seeing that he did not return, as well as having heard our names called again, we all advanced to the front. There, we were greeted by the head stewardess, and politely asked to disembark the aircraft. We were lead to the same hallway through which we passed while boarding, but the atmosphere now swiftly changed, as we soon noticed that we were surrounded by police officers. After having been left in this peculiar position for a minute or so, the stewardess approached us and explained, ‘Our crew has discussed your group, and together we all agreed that we are unwilling to include you in our flight. Your behavior has been suspicious from the beginning, and we cannot risk flying you. We now turn you over to the police, and they will take charge of your case from this point onwards.’ ‘Miss, I understand your concern’ began Robert after stepping forward, ‘but there must be some misunderstanding. We take this flight four times a year, often using your airline. We are a religious organization based here in California, and in fact we have tickets for the Bolshoi ballet this evening in the Covent Gardens Theater.’ This last comment on Robert’s part seemed to surprise the stewardess, although to my perception she was already fixed in her decision, and events having developed to such an extreme point, it was clear that it would take a considerable effort of explanation on our part in order to clear this abrupt suspicion that had developed around us. The stewardess dismissed herself and we were now left by ourselves, surrounded by a dozen or so police officers. After five minutes had elapsed in this state of uncertainty, Robert turned towards us and said, ‘If Influence C took the time to give us this shock, we must take the time to transform it. At this point, the key is not to resent this shock.’ We gradually learned the causes of suspicion against us. First, Dorian had intentionally checked into the flight early and asked for six adjacent seats. Second, we were, indeed, a diverse group of varying nationalities and ages. Third (and this is where the hand of Influence C became more and more apparent) we unexpectedly met another student, Stepan K., who was on the same flight, although destined to continue from London to Athens. He approached us while we were on board, and this aroused the suspicion on behalf of the crew members even more. Additionally (and again, the hand of Influence C could be sensed) the upper luggage bins above our seat were broken, damaged by us (claimed the crew) while loading them with suspicious items. Finally, another two suspicious Middle-eastern looking men were detected on the plane, which naturally added to the crews paranoia. We would also learn (later) that this particular day happened to be one of a heightened terrorism alert, the flight crews nationwide having been specifically asked not to leave any stone unturned.

    After perhaps fifteen minutes still standing in the hallway, we noticed that the crew was now leading all the rest of the passengers off board. Quietly we stood there, as the passengers walked by us one by one, each inquisitively looking at us and probably asking himself what exactly it was that we might have been plotting against him.

    Within about half an [h]our into this play, we were lead to a nearby large room and were seated individually (each about ten meters apart from the other). We were asked to wait patiently until the inspectors would arrive. Fortunately I was allowed to stay seated next to Robert; perhaps his being a senior aroused some kind of understanding on their part. However, I had left my notes on the plane, and did not have what to share with him as far as knowledge goes. We recalled where we had left off before all this began. Robert had posed the interesting question ‘How can one not deceive oneself?’ ‘In the second state one is deceiving oneself,’ continued Robert, answering his own earlier question ‘because one is not present. The best thing is to be present, and if that is not occurring, the second best thing is to have intellectual parts promoting presence; the most undesirable position is to be in the jacks and the queens. In the queens one does not have any option. The queens are full of doubt, not suspecting that they are the problem.’ I recalled a thought of Albert Einstein which had always been practical for me (although Einstein obviously would have been referring to something else). ‘Regarding rising from the queens to the kings’ I said ‘Einstein said that the solution is never on the same level as the problem.’ ‘Yes that is very good,’ responded Robert ‘I have heard it before, but now I understand it better. The solution is also not to be found in words, the problem is in words.’

    Thus we spent three and a half hours seated in an abandoned room in the San Francisco airport, during which we were briefly investigated by the FBI, although mostly left to ourselves.

    At a certain moment we recalled a story of Gurdjieff being arrested by the French police. Foreign pupils of Gurdjieff’s, especially Americans, coming over to see him after World War II would bring him gifts of money, sometimes a thousand dollars or more. By law, however, these should have been exchanged at once for francs. But Gurdjieff liked to keep the foreign bank notes. Thus, one day he was warned that the police intended to raid his flat, and he was implored to make sure that he had nothing suspicious. He replied, ‘They can never find anything in my apartment.’ The same day the police came, looked under his mattress, and found a variety of foreign currency notes. He was taken to the police station and locked up with petty criminals.

    When brought before the magistrate, Gurdjieff skillfully played the part of a poor old man who understood nothing about foreign money, and could scarcely speak French. He was, on this account, eventually discharged.

    ‘This is also part of having outside help–these kinds of things too’ Robert explained. ‘What I notice is that as the shock is persisting, and as the time is advancing, we have to keep reaffirming not-resenting. It is the queens that are resenting. Also, in these kind of situations I remember that now it is our turn to undergo friction. Other students each have their own turn, and at times it is the teacher’s turn. As a school, we are getting farther and farther away from the queens, and this is another opportunity to practice this. Becoming old is by no means a hedge against receiving friction, neither was I expecting it to be so.’ One of the chief police officers entered the room at 22:30 and announced that they had finished their investigation and we had proved innocent. They had searched through our luggage (both carry-on as well as check-in) and had also visited our website. The site aroused respect on their part, and the FBI officer apologized for the inconvenience caused.

    ‘I also read your site’ said one of the minor officers. ‘This incident will only increase your faith in your faith’ he said, in a fairly proud tone of voice.

    ‘Strange play’ remarked Robert on our way to a nearby hotel. ‘This shock was all planned even before we arrived at the airport. I marvel the Absolute scripted it for us. Compared to what he has seen, it is very little. We all stayed away from our machine’s imaginary picture of what should have happened. It is good we recently read of Gurdjieff’s arrest. He would have been in his eighties when that occurred–and I trust his shock was more difficult to handle than this one. It helped me work with this situation.’ ‘We are very lucky that it was an artificial shock rather than some kind of brutal handling which past schools have indeed experienced. During the shock I had the ‘I’ that C. Frew (who is also receiving artificially applied friction from Influence C, although in his case it is terminal) would have been grateful to undergo this if it were all that was asked of him. These are all artificial shocks–Girard’s stroke, Peter Bishop’s untimely death, and even Genevieve from one angle–Influence C have artificially applied them into their and our roles to transform. One always has to take Influence C on their own terms, and that is how they will get us to Paradise. We are very lucky Influence C take the time to help us escape; who are we that they would take the time to help us? And why we of all others?’ ‘One area you all have to watch is the group of ‘I’s that is concerned about myself in such situations. Remember that I will be doing my work. The seven of hearts can work through these concern ‘I’s.’ We received complementary rooms in a nearby hotel and spent the night there. Since our flight was not to leave until 16:30, we decided to have lunch in San Francisco the following day. As we arrived in Union Square, Robert remarked, ‘The machine considers yesterday as time lost. But it was not time lost because there was a lot of presence and third state to it all. The machine judges by external achievements.’ Soon, we were back in the airport undergoing exactly the same check-in procedure as in the previous day. After passing the security area, and as we were advancing towards our gate once again, I recalled Robert’s comment of how no one was suspecting there was a challenge to that moment, and pondered how curious it was that as Robert made that remark the previous day, none of us suspected that we were about to encounter a challenge that would last until 22:30! Dorian insisted that Robert and I be upgraded to upper class. Schools always make a profit, and thus our story ends happily with Robert and myself enjoying a pleasant dinner sitting across from each other. We toasted to bearing the slings and arrows of our outrageous good-fortune.

    [Link to image where image is of Asaf and REB in upper class cabin on airplane.]

    Scene we’d like to see: Asaf and REB in matching orange prison jumpsuits at upper class digs, Federal Penal Institution, Folsom, California, USA.


  43. Laura #25: If that was from your moon, I’d like to see what comes from your sun.


  44. Dear CVB (#20-11),
    Thank you for sharing your “farewell letter” with us. I appreciate your honesty and your courage.

    Although you may feel that ‘plowing the same ground’ may not yield fruit amongst those you know in the FoF, I sincerely believe that this is not entirely correct, especially if you believe your observations to be the ‘stubborn truth’. Although the initial reactions from ‘telling it like it is’ may not seem favorable at the time, it does make a difference. The impressions do sink in, you are heard, whether acknowledged or no. Your message is available for future use, even if immediate results don’t seem apparent. I ask you to share more, not less, of your personal story. How did you get to where you are? Tell us more of the trail of insights that led you here. Give us examples of how the buffers are dissolved, what happened when opposing sets of facts met. I think you can share information about how lies are managed by the organization, or how vice and fraud are sanctioned, for instance, without personal rancor. For that matter, if you are angry, you are welcome to share that, too.

    You are a talented communicator, and I don’t think that you will invalidate or dilute the intense personal experiences you are having by sharing what is appropriate. For myself, I find writing a really useful tool to help me gain clarity and understanding.

    It seems to me that many of us are taking the spiritual equivalent of a cold shower; uncomfortable, but bracing and immediate. The blog is like a communal cold shower, with lots of gasping, shrieking, laughs, and cries of “pass the soap!”.

    For me, where we are (the results of our past actions and interactions) is ‘a’ Big Truth, if you see what I mean; and specifically, for each of us as individuals, where we are in any given moment is ‘The’ Big Truth, if we care to look impartially. I don’t know if it is necessary or possible to seek beyond this; where can you go from Now?

    I send blessings and encouragement to you,
    Ames


  45. We Three

    Hurtling through time and space, full of sun, looking for fun. It was going to be a great day. It was already a great day.

    A bit of a brave move on your part, stepping out with a couple of the wild bunch. But you were up for it. And it couldn’t be that hard. We three occupying that same tiny slice of the enneagram. That same tiny slice of life.

    Remember the palace by the lake, swimming pool, but hey! no swimming; tennis courts, but put that racquet down. Working the line, dishes ‘til you drop. Like Cinderellas, on hands and knees, getting ready for the next grand event. Scrubbing days of flagstone with toothbrushes. Oh goodness, goodness.

    How many left from those days? Fingers on one hand. And three of those fingers right here, right now.

    But now all that has changed. And all that change implies is here circling around and around. Going nowhere.

    Mile by mile, the layers start to drop. Life, love and laughter, keeping it light. Suddenly, you shift, and your eyes catch mine with so much intensity can’t breathe out. Tell me, tell me why you left.

    Now its two on one. Point and counterpoint. You hold your own, but all time trying to hear what we were saying. You are amazing, you are wonderful. Listening and open.

    You must miss it, you must! you say. We two, in unison and with such speed it must have seemed orchestrated, Not at all, not at all. But you must! What about your friends? you say. Still see most of them, good times and wonder abound. Impressions? you say. Finding beauty everywhere. Regrets? you say. No.

    But now you have shifted back, blinking, twisting your ring with your fingers. Somehow, that energy surrounding you being pulled back deeper and deeper into your body.

    Now it is happening to me. Maybe we could have found something to regret. But no use, know you can see, know you can feel it. But really no excuse, could have dealt a softer hand.

    All the while, knowing you have so much more on your mind. So much more than “in and out “ things. More like breathing in and breathing out things.

    Then turning again, you pass me your cup, have some its good. You look like you need it. Your eyes shining, smiles all around.

    And once again, we three hurtling through time and space, full of sun, looking for fun.

    miles of smiles to all
    Cake


  46. re: 34 unianimo

    Hello ‘ton ~

    You have no idea how ‘hail to the heavens’ I was for you to find out that all that material was not yours; it’s good to record your source when quoting, otherwise you might be mistaken for a Fellowship of Friends non-ex-member, so to speak.

    37
    re: 34 unianimo

    i was under the impression that current students of the fof were able to access the blog (?) if current and ‘non ex members’ (as you put it) are not looking at the material here, then it’s all ‘preaching to the choir.’ if that’s the case, please let me know.

    and

    40: ‘ton ~ I was referring to the idea that the Fellowship of Friends often publish material under their auspices, yet, it’s actually not theirs, i.e., a sort of indifferent plagiarism; not that (that) was your intent, though a few ” ” marks would help us understand your ‘tent’ better, at least for me.

    thanks for the responses unianimo… i really don’t understand how you would get the idea that someone currently promoting the fof would post the materials i have thus far posted… ? the general intent here at the blog is a question i raised in my first postings, part 19 around 202. the ‘tent’ as you put it, my intent or purpose in entering this forum is something i questioned from the start and i still do question. i can say now that mainly, what has motivated me to post here thus far, is the intention to help those who are enmeshed in the fof and those who are still ‘on the fence,’ i am hoping they will come to this space and find help through the understanding of what it is they are involved in. secondarily the intent is to help those who are struggling to understand their past involvement in the fof. (and ‘thirdly,’ i don’t like to admit it but there is something resembling ‘perverse curiosity’ in it as well)… but based on the more ‘noble’ intentions, for me, if the blog doesn’t address and add to the understanding of involvements in the fof, then it can become a group of people simply taking turns “preaching to the converts” — what’s the use in that? or it becomes simply commiseration, which at best is a type of support but can easily turn into an exercise in self-pity.

    re: ka # 6 you said:

    “Following collective unconscious visual thinking threads has been of particular interest for me. Do you have any comment on the deep belief patterns we have that are not directly accessible to us? Once we become dimly aware, then intentional ignorance is a buffer, but how to become even dimly aware in the first place?”

    most people mistake their beliefs for the truth. even if it’s not in their best interest, some people resign themselves to their fate because they mistakenly accept a belief as true. many beliefs operate at the subconscious level. most people are unaware of their subconscious beliefs, which are often in conflict with their conscious thoughts.

    are there limits to what we can know, even about ourselves? the terms “unconscious” and “subconscious” imply that these areas contain material that is not conscious, and unavailable to the conscious mind… i think there are boundaries to what we can know in this respect, but it is possible to expand those boundaries by degrees. if there are ways to access material contained in the “subconscious” then the term becomes less monolithic. examination and exploration of the avenues into the “subconscious” in order to access the contents thereof goes hand in hand with the old dictum to “know thyself.” part of knowing yourself is understanding your beliefs. the difficulty, the catch-22 is that most beliefs are subconscious. and they have been accepted without ever having been critically examined.

    there are a number of techniques to identify unconscious beliefs: taking a battery of psychological tests or tapping into your ‘inner wisdom’ via meditation are two examples. there are techniques for identifying subconscious belief offered commercially, the internet supermarket is rife with them: psychoanalysis, nlp, psych-k, hypnosis, theta healing, various meditation techniques, and (buyer beware), there a lot of ‘gurus’ out there hawking these wares.

    “jungian” derived ‘active imagination,’ as well as methods involving hypnogogia, and dream analysis, etc, are simple practices that anyone of reasonable intelligence can practice –sans the gurus and commercial aspects — in order to access the so-called subconscious. the thread that runs through the various techniques, needless to say, is self-observation, it all begins and ends with the self, (not in an ‘egoistic’ sense, there are many ideas about the ‘self’)… the thread involves self-observation and especially the examination of behavior and thinking patterns in relation to the ‘subconscious material’ that is observed during moments of self-reflection, and then interpreting the ‘subconscious material’ in relation to behavior and patterns of thinking.

    creating a different state, a different vantage point for self-reflection is valuable if not essential in plumbing the depths of the mind. the question is how to create the proper state for accessing ‘deeper levels of consciousness’ – maybe a more descriptive turn of phrase than the term ‘subconscious’ – and then choosing to do so.

    but enough from me, what does your research reveal on the subject?

    thanks for your input and the attempt to raise the dialogue here above the level of cliques and rancorous personal attacks.


  47. Regarding post #11:

    CVB is not the author of the letter posted in #11. Several people made that assumption which is incorrect.


  48. on August 31, 2007 at 2:48 pm wake up little suzy wake up

    #20 CVB: Thanks for your post. I heard horrific stories of abuse back in the mid-90s when I left, but unfortunately my source was not someone who would have been believed at the time. They were not a Fellowship member. If you have proof of this, I would appreciate you coming out and speaking your truth. When I heard the ‘truth’ from the person who had been abused, I was catapulted out of the Fellowship. It was the deciding factor on my exit. Please share. It helps so many!


  49. on August 31, 2007 at 2:50 pm wake up little suzy wake up

    Sorry Elena #20, I meant #11 CVB.


  50. ‘ton – re: 34 unoanimo
    “i was under the impression that current students of the fof were able to access the blog (?) if current and ‘non ex members’ (as you put it) are not looking at the material here, then it’s all ‘preaching to the choir.’ if that’s the case, please let me know.”

    hi ‘ton, just to make sure it’s clear: current students are in fact reading the blog, seemingly quite a few of them, and some are actually actively posting on the blog. That’s one of the main reasons why I think it’s so important to keep posting and sharing information.


  51. 44 ‘ton

    I think what unoanimo was saying was that because you didn’t use quotation marks or cite your sources for the material you posted, it appeared that you had written it yourself, and that he thought it would be helpful next time to cite your sources. That’s all. I was actually confused myself, as the material had that tone of kind of impersonal, detached objectivity that published material often has, yet without a listed source, I assumed you had written it yourself. No big deal. Hope this helps clarify things.


  52. Well, CVB (#19-45), you didn’t tell us you were quoting in your message #11—you can see how we made the mistake. So, maybe you could pass the messages on to C?
    Thanks.


  53. on August 31, 2007 at 4:56 pm Dream Catcher

    Cynthia, CVB #11, if you will be as brave as Anna
    then many will exchange their doubts for acceptance
    and have the courage to move forward
    The truth will set one free.


  54. ‘ton #44

    Those you want to help, on the fence or still fenced in, will be helped more by your own words/stories than by rationalizations about beliefs, faith, cults and gurus written by others. At least I “believe” so…

    As “wake up little suzy” alluded to in #46, deciding to leave is often a “light bulb” event, triggered by a story, an observation, a “high state”. The leaving may drag on, but the triggering event is what gets the ball rolling. People who are on their way out often will be interested in rationalizations to help pick themselves up and recover, but those proximal to a decision to leave are not inclined to read such things. On the other hand, every one is ready for stories, especially heart felt and coming from friends.


  55. re: 48 laura
    thanks for clearing that up.

    re: 49 & 50
    i apologize for the confusion…
    ‘cherry picking’ related materials through cutting and pasting is a creative process for me… that along with the mostly ‘free-form’ of the blog might have something to do with how the information was presented… not to justify… in the future i’ll attempt to conform to APA standards. a question that occurs in this connection is whether or not enclosing information in parentheses changes the content and or the way it is ‘taken in’ ?

    thank you bloggers all


  56. ‘ton: “creating a different state, a different vantage point for self-reflection is valuable if not essential in plumbing the depths of the mind. the question is how to create the proper state for accessing ‘deeper levels of consciousness’ – maybe a more descriptive turn of phrase than the term ’subconscious’ – and then choosing to do so.”

    Hi ‘ton, I like the above notion. Especially the “different vantage point”. For me that is a true method. Especially taking a vantage point that I am not comfortable with or even do not like. I find that what I react negatively to is a key to my un/subconscious. A back door in. Not just a negative reaction (like in “I hate meat loaf that has mold on it”) but a judgmental attitude. When I find myself judging something or someone that is the moment to hold still and see myself in a new light. Judgment reveals attitudes – deep subconscious attitudes, the underpinnings of belief systems.

    Another way is thru myth – works for me. Myth – cultural stories – abound. Rocky, Tolkein, Sleeping Beauty, Romeo and Juliet (which was recently retold in ‘Brokeback Mountain’) – these stories get told and retold and reenacted and so on. Holding onto a story and starting to see it expressed by the collective starts a strange set of sensations for me and seems to stir deep waters (Laura, LOVED the Oceana!). (yes, pure ecstatic beauty works too).

    I worked for years at learning how to ‘catch images’ which means somehow becoming more awake to visual thinking images which are as fleeting as dream images. And then to recognize when one presents itself and then to catch it. I found that the process is just not what I thought it would be and overcoming that was the main obstacle.


  57. Hi ‘ton,

    IMO there are no rules or standards, or if there are, they’ve all been broken repeatedly here. Great, isn’t it?

    Some people including myself have trouble reading the really long posts. One suggestion is to pull a few important “sound bites” into the body of your post, then insert a link or URL to the complete webpage you are referencing. That way people who are really interested can find it if they want.

    I completely agree with Opus 111 that if you are speaking to current members, your own story will probably be more compelling than any quoted texts from elsewhere. You mentioned before that this might open some old wounds. It’s the same for many here so just about everyone respects this position. On the other hand, some of us seem to have benefitted from letting go of our stories. They are the most precious thing we can give here, and for me have resulted in some of my highest moments reading the blog.

    I am happy to hear from you after so many years and appreciate your posts.

    Joseph G


  58. re: # 52 opus
    and #55 josephg

    i get the point and a good point it is… will try to be less voluminously pedantic… the personal stories are really the most salient and important thing here, the most interesting and most likely to move the reader in a positive direction.

    re: ka #54

    the mythos embodied and enacted by the fof — one might even go so far as to say ‘enforced’ through certain psychologically and emotionally coercive techniques — relies upon centuries of ‘programming’ and deep ‘subconscious beliefs’ propagated and perpetuated by the dominant cultural paradigm (as described in the previous posting related to belief and patriarchy – page 19 beginning around 501). the allure and hold the fof has on many (otherwise) intelligent people, may be ‘potentized’ by the fact that rb essentially embodies both the male and female archetypes – his behavior indicates that he is a ‘female in a male body.’ representing both patriarchal and matriarchal archetypes, a current of cognitive dissonance arises from such a powerful ‘subconscious image’ thus increasing the effect, affect and hold on the flock .

    rb’s vulnerability, due to a pathological condition alluded to in a previous post — he is sick — creates a situation requiring the flock to protect the shepherd… hey, that’s ‘bass ackwards’!! ‘inversion,’ turning things upside down, creates cognitive dissonance in the participants, this is a method of mind-control. a self-contained, enclosed, and ‘topsy-turvy’ world is created by the fof, at the center of which is the shepherd’s vulnerability. continued feeding and support of his weakness is at the root of the problem, the control mechanism in this case depends upon ‘mechanical goodness’ as we once called it, and the genuinely good human inclinations and intentions by the flock in their effort to protect and rally ’round their ‘deeply wounded’ shepherd. the fof as an organization is based upon the sickness at its core… with the fof, apparently it’s always been about ‘us against them,’ ‘us against the world’… that’s a control mechanism. aspects of ‘the hero’ mythos along with strong elements of ‘salvationism,’ and of course the wizard of oz, pluck at the chords of ‘subconscious’ belief in the adherents… as my good friend dr. wiggly used to say, ‘the unexamined life ain’t worth doodly-squat.’

    thanks for the feedback
    and for being here now…


  59. p.s. for # 66
    joe bob says ‘check it out’

    http://worldfilm.about.com/od/vontrier/Lars_von_Trier.htm


  60. p.s. #57
    should read “p.s. for # 56”


  61. Occasionally heterosexual men find it repulsive to have sex with an old queer

    Love Malcolm

    Bob told a young man from Nantucket,
    ‘drop your pants dear, let me suck it’,
    As he swallowed he did grin,
    saying, as he wiped off his chin,
    ‘If you need to be sick dear, there’s a bucket’


  62. From post #11: “gratitude that you face the truth even if it’s five mintues before your death”.

    That has been circulating within me the last few days. What if I had died believing I lost a real school.

    And, the ones that did die believing?

    Gurdjieff said that some sins are hard to redress. That’s one of them.


  63. For RB that is.


  64. re: # 60 arthur

    what about redressing the sins visited upon those souls who died before even having a chance to believe, the unborn who were cut from the womb at rb’s behest. if there is such a thing as karmic consequence, i would hate to be in his soles.


  65. 44 ‘ton: “creating a different state, a different vantage point for self-reflection is valuable if not essential in plumbing the depths of the mind.”

    Sorry to be blunt but this just sounds like more navel-gazing. Why bother? Why not just look through our eyes and enjoy being alive? Why continue the FoF-style fascination with attitudes/thoughts/mind etc? It all seems so unnecessary these days.


  66. Rhino Neal

    44 ‘ton: “creating a different state, a different vantage point for self-reflection is valuable if not essential in plumbing the depths of the mind.”

    Sorry to be blunt but this just sounds like more navel-gazing. Why bother? Why not just look through our eyes and enjoy being alive? Why continue the FoF-style fascination with attitudes/thoughts/mind etc? It all seems so unnecessary these days.”
    ———————

    Hi Rhino, suit yourself. If you don’t want to bother, don’t bother. Fascination with attitudes, consciousness, conscience and mind is not property of the fof. Au contraire…. And who ever said that inquiry into the nature of mind etc excludes looking out of our eyes and enjoying bing alive??? A person can do both -AND- walk and breath and pet a cat…all at the same time. Now, if you are reacting to the rigidity of the fof-think, then I get that. But don’t close your mind too much here, please. You might enjoy the inquiry!


  67. CVB & her quoted friend ,
    I understand your reluctance in sharing more details, but a testimonial like yours might help to shed even more light on the ugly truths and eventually open the eyes of more “confused” souls;
    yes,she is right, a quite large number of idiots will certainly find the appropriate buffer to dismiss it, but a few might listen, and those are the ones you are talking to and we care for.
    Please share, it doesn’t come from voyeuristic pleasure, rather from insatiable craving for clarity and information.
    We all deserve it.

    M.


  68. re: #63 rhino

    thanks for being ‘blunt’ i appreciate directness… ya i agree that techniques and methods are just so much navel-gazing and beside the point. the “bottom line” is about “being present” as you’ve described… “looking through our eyes and enjoyment of being alive.”

    “there was no cessation to the haze that extended right and left in gelid layers and up was as good as down. there was a sense of comings and goings, of invisible fluttering messages: hall quite beyond his apprehension. he began to suspect that somehow the Doctrine of Temporal Stasis had effected a transposition of precepts. why else, he wondered, as he groped through the suffusion, should the word ‘lachrymose’ occur to him again and again?
    he found himself at the edge of a bulging limpid window, beyond which danced anthropomorphic visions. looking up he spied a fringe of curving rods; below he found a pink curving shelf, in which were embedded more of these rods. to the side a lumpy porous object thrust forth like a prodigious nose: and he now saw the object to be a nose in all verity, a most extraordinary object. he altered the trend of his musing. the central problem, so it seemed was to learn from whose eye he looked forth. much, after all, would depend upon his viewpoint.”

    from “the avatar’s apprentice”


  69. KA 64: “And who ever said that inquiry into the nature of mind etc excludes looking out of our eyes and enjoying bing alive??? A person can do both.”

    Up to a point. But any kind of intellectual structure that mediates between us and reality separates us from reality. That’s true of Jungian psychology, Fourth Way, FoF dogma, whatever. It’s the mind that’s fascinated by the mind, and that fascination leads nowhere.


  70. 66 ‘ton.

    thanks! RN


  71. 67 Hi Rhino,

    curiosity and inquiry are not intellectual structures. Yes we have to use structures, language, our senses, our hearts. Fascination is a term that implies inspiration – a drawing in of breath, or nourishment. We are talking about stepping out of our normal ‘asleep’ rut filled structures and ways we have personally found to approach that. Saying that you abandon all structures is itself a construct – after all you used language to say it. So that works for you. Is there anything else on the menu?

    Hi ‘ton, Liked your avatar’s apprentice story. Made me dizzy.


  72. (second try)

    Rhino Neal (around) 68

    Sorry to be blunt but this just sounds like more navel-gazing. Why bother? Why not just look through our eyes and enjoy being alive?

    But any kind of intellectual structure that mediates between us and reality separates us from reality.

    *****************

    Those that noisily advocate non-judgment are usually not only the most likely to judge others unfavorably while being deceived by their own self-righteous identification, but once everyone else is convinced of the virtue of non-judgment are most likely to become the high judges of the new non-judgmental society.


  73. re: # 66

    third line of quote from “avatar’s apprentice should read
    “all quite beyond his comprehension” not “hall beyond…”
    spell check doesn’t catch that, sorry.


  74. 69 KA:

    “curiosity and inquiry are not intellectual structures,”

    Agreed.

    “Saying that you abandon all structures is itself a construct – after all you used language to say it.”

    Maybe… To give some context, after leaving the FoF a year ago it was great to see all the FoF and Fourth Way concepts fall away. This seems to be a common experience. That led to some interractions with John Wheeler, the Advaita teacher, where it became clear that I, RN, don’t really exist and that in reality I am awareness, which is totally non-conceptual. There’s no “construct” involved at all in the experience, though, as you say, describing it necessarily involves a certain amount of “construct”.

    I realise this kind of statement annoys some people here, but that’s what happened!


  75. Hello ‘ton ~

    You wrote ~

    “i really don’t understand how you would get the idea that someone currently promoting the fof would post the materials i have thus far posted… ?”

    _______________________

    Innernaut in Post #49 pretty much said it all; it’s really no big deal, just a simple suggestion… no need for us to write an epic analysis of a misunderstanding. Please go back and re-read my note to you with Innernaut’s post in mind… It’s all good bro.

    :.)


  76. Rhino Neal (around) 72

    …[I] don’t really exist and that in reality I am awareness, which is totally non-conceptual. There’s no “construct” involved at all in the experience, though, as you say, describing it necessarily involves a certain amount of “construct”.

    **********

    It is curious that you still have this compulsion to explain to everyone that you no longer exist. Why not just quietly disappear?


  77. ‘ton (53) ~

    You asked ~

    “a question that occurs in this connection is whether or not enclosing information in parentheses changes the content and or the way it is ‘taken in’ ?”

    _______________________________________________

    For sure, if we know it’s coming from your heart, your struggles and being, then the dance we start tapping to is wholly different than the one we do when we know it’s not the author we’re connecting with or simply a dead dude being quoted.

    :.)


  78. 74 Graduates: “Why not just quietly disappear?”

    I already did.


  79. Then who’s posting?


  80. unoanimo (around) 77

    Then who’s posting?

    ***********

    More like, who’s posing?


  81. 70, 74 Graduates

    I agree with both of your statements, Graduates, yet I’ve never found Rhino Neal judgmental, whether or not I agree with what he says, and you are famously judgmental (in 70 and again in 74, in just the latest examples) whether or not I agree with what you say. That’s not meant as an insult, just an observation. Curious, isn’t it?


  82. 78 Graduates

    See what I mean?


  83. Brain Police (around) 79

    70, 74 Graduates

    I agree with both of your statements, Graduates, yet I’ve never found Rhino Neal judgmental, whether or not I agree with what he says, and you are famously judgmental (in 70 and again in 74, in just the latest examples) whether or not I agree with what you say. That’s not meant as an insult, just an observation. Curious, isn’t it?

    **************

    Don’t worry about Rhino Neal’s judgments (or mine), what about your own?

    Brain Police 38

    Uno (36)

    Oh, please, Uno, just tell me how to write posts just like you. Asshole.

    ***

    Where is the “pure vision of non-dual reality” here?


  84. 78

    Thanks for the semantic correction.


  85. 81 Graduates

    You’d have a very good point, Graduates, if I were espousing the “pure vision of non-dual reality,” but I never have.


  86. Brain Police 83

    81 Graduates

    You’d have a very good point, Graduates, if I were espousing the “pure vision of non-dual reality,” but I never have.

    ************

    It also cuts into the point you were trying to make that I’m the worst hypocrite around.


  87. 81 Graduates

    I should say you’d have a very good point, Graduates, if I were espousing the “pure vision of non-dual reality,” or if I were reaming out those who do for being judgmental, but I never have.


  88. 84 Graduates

    Nah, there’s plenty of hyposcrisy to go around, on this blog and everywhere else, and I’ve got my share of it. I just wish you, in particular, would be a little less harsh with people whose only crime seems to be that they see things differently than you do.


  89. Brain Police, I don’t seem to find Graduates is particularly judgemental in 70 or 74 but exposing a tendency. You seem to be connecting to old patterns and closing doors somewhat as Unoanimo often does when he says it is not like this but like that the way its got to be, talking of which, Anna, you haven’t posted since Unoanimo made one such observation to you, would you please not consider it nearly as significant and continue your posts which at least I need enormously for the sake of clarification of things I never really heard or was a part of? Perhaps that is why it took me six years at Isis to explode instead of two.

    It’s funny that you guys here say you’re not much interested in thought processes but if I may, I would also like to say that I am not in the least interested in your little pokings at each other simply rejecting what anybody says to state your presence. I’d be much happier with pages of thought processes than your squirmishes or however you say it or spell it. I think I am beginning to miss the silence in the fellowship when at least little arguments of that kind were totally unacceptable. After all, it’s only false personality what finds there’s something wrong in just about anything.

    If you think you’re helping heal anything with that attitude, your wrong, you just make it even more depressing to be out here.

    CVB. Thank you for posting the letter. For whatever it’s worth, I am deeply grateful for your writing that letter.


  90. Brain Police 86

    84 Graduates

    Nah, there’s plenty of hyposcrisy to go around, on this blog and everywhere else, and I’ve got my share of it. I just wish you, in particular, would be a little less harsh with people whose only crime seems to be that they see things differently than you do.

    ************

    First, I have not been harsh to you so why take on someone else’s outrage when it really doesn’t affect you personally? Second, worry about your own harshness:

    Brain Police 38

    Uno (36)

    Oh, please, Uno, just tell me how to write posts just like you. Asshole.


  91. Rhino, It’s hard to reach you, to love you, when you’re on a soapbox. (And I know something about soapboxes, LOL)
    _________________________________________

    “That which you are, your true self, you love it, and whatever you do, you do for your own happiness. To find it, to know it, to cherish it is your basic urge. Since time immemorial you loved yourself, but not very wisely. Use your body and mind wisely in the service of the self, that is all. Be true to your own self, love your self absolutely. Do not pretend that you love others as yourself. Unless you have realized them as one with yourself, you cannot love them. Don’t pretend to be what you are not, don’t refuse to be what you are. Your love of others is the result of self knowledge, not its cause. Without self-realization, no virtue is genuine…. only self-realization can break it. Go for it resolutely.”

    Page 213 ‘Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj’ aka, The Big Gun ~
    ‘I AM THAT’ ~ book quoted from.


  92. 87 Elena ~

    Ha, if you only knew….

    ________________________________

    You wrote ~

    “You seem to be connecting to old patterns and closing doors somewhat as Unoanimo often does when he says it is not like this but like that the way its got to be, talking of which, Anna, you haven’t posted since Unoanimo made one such observation to you…”

    What observation was that Elena?

    :.)


  93. 87 Elena

    I appreciate your post, Elena, and not to negate the truth in it and in many others you’ve written, but perhaps someone who’s taken up as much space as you have with lengthy, tortured posts about what most interests you might be patient with the rest of us before bemoaning the lack of silence.

    88 Graduates

    I said what I said to Unoanego because I felt he was being pissy directly towards me, for no good reason. If you’d been responding to something from R. Neal directed at you I’d have said nothing. And you’ve been nasty to me as well, along with just about everyone else, so let’s get real about that. Anyway, over and out on this thread. If you want the last word, go for it.


  94. For the Record ~ Examples of some truly diabolical correspondence in Part 19 between Anna and I…

    415 Anna

    409

    Cheer leaders and pom poms doing their thing

    328 Anna

    327… Gorgeous

    373 Anna

    LOL

    ________________________________________

    And here’s another, whew, a ruthless and very disturbing prose, nearing Edgar Allen Poe’s ‘Black Cat’ ~

    My last post to Anna ~

    478 unoanimo

    Anna (462) ~

    Reading this post, I sense that there’s something in you that’s moved beyond the brave, into solace-necessity, into a sort of self rotor tiller redemption, yet, quiet, no attention-getting sparks as you till the garden at night, simply, labor to bring the earth-spirit you wear to another sort of plant-able stage… Whatever are your seeds, may Hafiz’s & your tears bring them to unfurling upon the breezes.

    ______________________________________________

    l.t.y.a.


  95. Unoanimo, My perceptions may always be off and yet it was my impression that you first celebrated the recent post by Anna then questioned the act. It is the pattern you’ve been questioned for repeatedly. It is as if you gave a little and then took plenty when no one is really needing either one. Just a dialogue, a thank you, a no I don’t agree, but you seem to adress the person and not the subject and it has been questioned repeatedly but you don’t seem to be catching it.

    Brain Police. Granted, thank you.


  96. Elena ~

    You wrote ~

    “then questioned the act”
    ___________________________

    Can you please explain how I questioned the “act”?

    It is odd, that first you state that you “may always be off” then say “it was my impression”… Something deep in my heart tells me that’s what and how I write to anyone on this blog is not for you to translate or add objective footnotes to belittle what is most clearly a joyful celebration, down into some possible homicide crime scene. Good grief Elena, you’ve got enough of your own real material to be wiseacring new stuff up for me.

    :.)


  97. P.S. on 93 ~

    “Just a dialog, a thank you, a no I don’t agree, but you seem to address the person and not the subject and it has been questioned repeatedly but you don’t seem to be catching it.”

    _____________________________

    Elena, thanks for the ‘training wheels’ and the directions on how I should be me, but, no thanks.


  98. # 5 in a series of posts joining the Journey Forth to Isis celebrations.

    Awake, awake, awake,
    Awake in peace,
    Lady of Peace,
    Rest thou in peace,
    Rise thou in beauty,
    Goddess of Life
    Beautiful in Heaven.
    Hymn to Isis

    Come & fly away with me tonight

    http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=MwA96dZm6Mw


  99. It never ceases to amaze me the hoops people will jump through so to avoid admitting that they were mistaken.


  100. Hi Graduates, Please! chill! I don’t get a sense that there’s an incredible amount of judgment going on – just trying to communicate. Tell us what you don’t like about John Wheeler, the Advaita teacher and the concepts. And, how about telling us what you DO like about this blog…..and/or the 4th way……??

    Hi RN, I don’t know much about Advaita. Well, actually less than not much.

    I left the fof many many years ago and have pursued my love of presence/consciousness/being/awareness in many ways. Now, however, I am mostly keeping it simple and try to be authentic. I find that that is actually an endeavor and takes all the talent and skill I have accrued, plus all the being, love, patience and maturity I can muster. You might not agree, but I find that different moments call forth different tools (systems?). And life does not stop knocking me off my feet. Last year I had to face some serious health issues and that was a whole new journey forcing me into places I never wanted to ever go. Like meditation. It was extremely helpful, but, god, I really did not want to do it! ;-)


  101. Hi KA 98, very nice to read your post.

    Sorry if I was a bit dogmatic – your experiences sound similar to my own, and those of many recently ex students I know. Keeping it simple is about all we can ask of ourselves.

    I was just listening to a Beethoven piano sonata and read in the notes that Beethoven was a keen hiker and many of his slow movements prove to be ideal walking music…

    regards, RN


  102. KA 98

    Hi Graduates, Please! chill! I don’t get a sense that there’s an incredible amount of judgment going on – just trying to communicate. Tell us what you don’t like about John Wheeler, the Advaita teacher and the concepts. And, how about telling us what you DO like about this blog…..and/or the 4th way……??

    ***************

    Check this out cupcake, about the best I do for you is tell you what I like about you:


  103. Unoanimo #89: Your quote from Nisargadatta. As I read it, I thought this sentence is 4th way, that sentence is 4th way maybe not verbatim but in meaning. At least to me.

    KA: I know about serious health issues. I’m hoping you feel better.


  104. Unoanimo, I’m afraid you’re a lot more wordier than my english can grasp so I don’t get to appreciate many of the subtleties a lot of people here seem to enjoy about your posts. My loss. I still don’t take back what I said and your exagerations on what I said just show how extremely sensitive any one of us here is about what any body else says. Including Graduates or you. It shows how much we care about being accepted in a community of even invisble people dripping words on a computer.

    I have no interest in deepning the antagonism between us or hurting you. I guess I did by disqualifying you saying ‘don’t take it too much to heart’ while for all I know, Anna might have understood you well and be fond of your post.

    You say: Elena, thanks for the ‘training wheels’ and the directions on how I should be me, but, no thanks” and that is exactly what I am saying that you do to almost every poster that you pick. I’m not sorry you’re tasting what it feels like for once not to hurt you but to turn the light on even you wish it black.

    But it’s really all about attention and vanity. We thirst for communication and even this squirmishes are better than nothing. What I don’t really understand is why, when there’s such an eagerness to feel each other, we spend so much time rejecting each other, one way or another.

    Who ever is being over aggresive is just in a lot of pain of his own. Please don’t over react to this one too, I don’t think it is that serious and we have reached a slight friendship that I would not like to loose.

    Hi Graduates, smart video. Bit much for me but thanks.


  105. 101 Hi Arthur, Thank you. yes.

    99 Hi RN, I’ve somehow discovered that I am an ‘active type’ of person, so making efforts is good for my essence. But it is best to know oneself. All of humanity is lurching towards that – we are not alone, but are intimately connected.

    Graduates, hmmmm…. here’s one for you:

    ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTQeP3g0D1c

    In case you miss it, you are the ‘old school’ guy! (who BTW is running for President of the United States!)


  106. 102 Elena ~

    Hello Elena; yes you are exactly right, it is not important… For me, the only thing that’s ‘Important’ (here) is being true to one another, I sensed that you were mistaken concerning my supposed “then questioned the act”:

    see, these posts are read by about 2000 people a day (1500 on the low end) and although I am not writing to them directly, I wish to be sincere with them too, so, if there’s a misunderstanding and I call you on it, you don’t give any example of your ‘spot on’ observation, then, for me (and them) it’s a mess and truly neither of us need more of those ‘things’, messes that is…

    So, although you’re not going to take it back, you were mistaken, I believe we honor one another far more by acknowledging when we trip over each other than when we’re skipping jolly like on gold pavement towards Oz.

    You have your style and I have mine, though stylizations don’t keep us from telling the truth or smoothing things out when something highly presumptuous and personally cathartic takes an abrupt left hand turn and smashes into the Michelin Man.

    And please don’t worry about loosing our friendship, this ain’t the Fellowship of Friends and you’ll always be one of my muses no matter what our brains wrestle about; circumstances are less important than being and regardless of what your ‘mind’ says, I see your being and that’s all I really want anyway.

    :.)


  107. KA ~ You missed an ‘h’ in your ‘http’ ~



  108. …for us all…. (thanks uno…)


  109. KA 106


    …for us all…. (thanks uno…)

    ****


  110. Double post. –ES


  111. on September 1, 2007 at 6:02 am Way.of.the.Slow.Man

    I hope current members of the FOF are reading this.
    For those who are still questioning, not only can you graduate from the FOF and leave the non-prophet organization but you can thrive and grow spiritually.

    I was in for 7 years, left 20+ years ago. Sent to open two new centers, captured only one new student (who stayed for 3 weeks) and I wondered why anyone would deliberately want to do this stuff. I guess our new centers weren’t as convincing as the center where I joined– which was remote from RB/Renaissance and crewed by students who were really trying to do the work.

    I joined the FOF because the concepts and work were interesting and because my fellow students were sincere, were teaching each other and were trying to live the work together. After a few years realized if RB was conscious, he was not a conscious model I wanted to emulate.

    One or so years in the FOF working with other sincere students should be enough to ground the work and graduate. Why does no one ever graduate from the FOF?

    The real fellowship of friends is actually this discussion list, the Greater Fellowship list and the friends and spiritual travelers in and out of the FOF.

    The FOF is not the way of the sly man, its for the slow man. … those who need 2x4s up alongside the head repeatedly to get the message. It took seven years of thumps for me but eventually I got the message- there’s real life outside.


  112. 108 – Way.of.the.Slow.Man:
    I enjoy your humor and your observations.

    Here are a few more zingers to lighten the discussion up a bit and give the heavy thinkers a rest:

    “Too many people run out of ideas long before they run out of words.”

    “It’s a lot easier to form an opinion when you have only a few of the facts.”

    “As a general rule, the freedom of any people can be judged by the volume of their laughter.”

    “I used to believe that anything was better than nothing. Now I know that sometimes nothing is better.”

    “A lot of happiness is overlooked because it doesn’t cost anything.”

    “We pretend to pay them and they pretend to work.” Charles Randall

    “the services provided for these contributions consist solely of intangible religious benefits”. FoF Annual Donations Summary

    If you didn’t laugh, or at least snicker at some of these, you just weren’t paying attention.


  113. #100 Graduates

    Thank Gawd! After all that stuff from Laura I was beginning to grow a vagina.


  114. Double post. –ES


  115. (second try)

    Yesri baba 110

    #100 Graduates

    Thank Gawd! After all that stuff from Laura I was beginning to grow a vagina.

    **************

    The feminine dominance on this blog is as thick as Ragú.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rag%C3%BA


  116. Graduates 111
    well, wouldn’t that be nice …


  117. I actually do cook a pretty mean thick ragù, some of you may have tasted it in the old days. If any of you guys want the recipe, just let me know, I’ll be glad to oblige. The preparation is pretty easy, but then you need to let it simmer slowly, for quite a long time, so that it can harmoniously develop all its flavours.
    Bon appetit!


  118. Graduates 111

    First, let me be very clear, I am a big fan of vaginas.

    With your link I was expecting to get a re-run of that long schpiel on “feminine dominance” and was amused to get a recipe for Ragu’.

    Now, on to the BS.

    It is possible to get a good invisible brain taste of the force of the “feminine dominance” and it is formiddable. I suppose if you were to subtract it from the violent, abusive, macho man-can do culture that pervades the world we would end up at 0. Some great thinker might come up with a treatise showing how one comes from the other or the other from the one.

    Certainly we need to harmonize the masculine and feminine, to as great a degree possible, to have balance in relating to the world. It does seem, to me, that the blog leans a little to the prissy side. That is understandable since it is composed of former and current fof members.

    It has seemed to me that the “abusive” flavor to some of your posts is the reaction to this tone (except for the ones to A Former Student which are just plain cruel and must stem from past conflict. They are truly painful to behold.) He is definitely not retarded, and you are not “all that” and “vice”-versa. (just being curious, do you have a genius level IQ?)

    Well, enough of this, I am beginning to irritate myself and can only imagine what it is doing to others.


  119. Laura 112

    I hope it has been clear I am a big fan of your posts. Your feminine is indomitable.


  120. Robert sometimes likes it gross

    Love Malcolm

    Bob likes to nibble along the sheath
    and is not afraid of using his teeth
    He also will take his leisure
    and amplify his pleasure
    by getting at the cheese underneath


  121. Yesri baba (around) 114

    Graduates 111

    First, let me be very clear, I am a big fan of vaginas.

    ********

    I love them, but I’m glad I’m not wearing one.

    ********

    It is possible to get a good invisible brain taste of the force of the “feminine dominance” and it is formidable. I suppose if you were to subtract it from the violent, abusive, macho man-can do culture that pervades the world we would end up at 0. [edit]

    It has seemed to me that the “abusive” flavor to some of your posts is the reaction to this tone (except for the ones to A Former Student which are just plain cruel and must stem from past conflict. They are truly painful to behold.)

    **********

    Feminine dominance is the result of a failure to resist the automatic sense of injustice that issues from the seven of hearts. Women are far more suseptable to that card’s brand of identification than most men.


  122. Yesri 115
    Yesri, my sweet, thanks, no problem. Your vagina comment did actually make me laugh.

    I think it’s pretty clear that the Isis posts are essentially little gifts for “the sisters”, a small way to manifest my support. The reverse side of being part of an organization run by a penis fetishist is being part of an organization run by a woman hater. There’s been a lot of abuse, and it is still going on. Most ladies (me included) had to really struggle to mantain an healthy dose of self-esteem.

    I also enjoyed your videos, guys. Naturally I don’t wish to turn this into a music blog, but for me sharing songs is a simple and effective tool to communicate emotions and ideas. It’s also a way to bring in the senses and a good break from so many words. Wouldn’t it be nice to just be able to look into each others’ eyes sometimes?

    Accordingly, this one goes out to you, with all my love.
    http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=XpUIsmv3AGI


  123. on September 1, 2007 at 5:52 pm Bistro Fundraiser

    http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id132/pg1/index.html

    “The ‘Fellowship of Friends’, founded by self-styled ‘Fourth Way’ teacher Robert Earl Burton is one of the most controversial contemporary groups. Burton never studied directly with Gurdjieff or Ouspensky (he did study with Alex Horn), and is not recognised by the Gurdjieff Foundation as a legitimate heir, but has promoted himself as a self-proclaimed ‘Teacher’ who became notorious when his Edgar Cayce-like prophecy of California falling into the sea due on April 11th 1988 failed to occur (he also claimed to be founding a ‘New Civilization’ that would survive an Armageddon). The FOF promotes itself by leaving ‘Gurdjieff/Ouspensky’ Centres bookmarks in stores, despite several disputes with publishers and authors. This site by Stella and Harold Wirk (who met Burton in July 1970 and studied with the FOF until 1982) describes how this esoteric school began to turn into a cult within three years, the group dynamics and ‘authoritarian power god’ processes underlying this transformation (the school forgets its original aim and exists only to survive/propagate itself), and the inevitably decline that followed. Exercises designed to increase awareness of neuro-physiological, social, and individual limitations became extremely regimented (see the Wirk-Sheet and famous Hell Letter). This site contains letters, e-mail, and distinctive portraits. An important reminder that the Gurdjieff Work does not have obedience, faith, or blind belief!”


  124. on September 1, 2007 at 5:55 pm Bistro Fundraiser

    Link to Stella Wirk’s site with the title, “Eliminate Cult Abuse”…

    http://www.geocities.com/stella_wirk/


  125. Masculine dominance is fearful of feminine energies – considers them soft, does not recognize the power and strength in them. Sees them as emulsifying and ragu-ing and smothering. Wants them to go away, except for the procreation part, and maybe some entertainment and to be there when nurturing is needed. Restricts them to vaginas and motherhood.

    It is a TERRIBLE weakness in the fof and in many cultures, and here too!

    It is a sleep – a blindness to the real, deep, and life giving forces within and between us.


  126. Graduates: “Feminine dominance is the result of a failure to resist the automatic sense of injustice that issues from the seven of hearts. Women are far more suseptable to that card’s brand of identification than most men.”

    Because most men take for granted the status quo and don’t think it is worth questioning it? Because it is ingrained in their cellular tissues to an extent that only deep work on themselves can extricate it organically?

    I’d be interested in hearing what you mean more extensively. What I understood about FM was that it is an accepted status quo that is not to be violated by anyone who does not wish to risk becoming an outsider of the particular community that accepts the conditions. In our society, it is the patriarchal macho status quo what prevails, in Robert’s community it was a fag’s super king female-macho status quo, what prevailed.

    I don’t see how you are equating the sense of injustice to Feminine dominance, which is closer to me to the sense of “proper”. Individually one is under feminine dominance when one does not think it is “proper” of another person to question one’s statements and it happens when the individual has lost the capacity to dialogue but wishes to impose his or her monologue. It is the inner “Hitler” that we’ve called false personality. To be able to dialogue, one cannot impose one’s point of view because one is feeling that the others are doing one an injustice by not agreeing with one. There’s already great hope if they’re even willing to listen to one in a world in which only a few in power of some kind, can speak.

    Yesri Baba: It is possible to get a good invisible brain taste of the force of the “feminine dominance” and it is formidable. I suppose if you were to subtract it from the violent, abusive, macho man-can do culture that pervades the world we would end up at 0.

    I’m just guessing where you’re coming from so here I go. There’s a distaste for feminine dominance but an acknowledgement of its necessity? I wonder to what extent Robert called it feminine dominance because of his own misoginy and hoped it would get blown up into pieces so that he could get to violate every act of love and not have it questioned by women or men. Wasn’t “love” in the end what was termed feminine dominance in the fellowship? Or the expectation the guys might have had of not just being used sexually? or the women of being included not just as efficient money makers? or the large mass of students as individuals who could be heard by their teacher instead of being treated like a mass of sleeping machines not worth attention individually with the excuse that the conscious being had too much on his hands?

    With this perspective, Yesri, are you saying that without love the macho abusive culture would end up at 0? Or am I misinterpreting you?

    Thanks for the songs!


  127. Laura (#118)

    Thanks for the song. A discovery for me. He’s great.


  128. 118 # Laura

    ….I think it’s pretty clear that the Isis posts are essentially little gifts for “the sisters”, a small way to manifest my support. The reverse side of being part of an organization run by a penis fetishist is being part of an organization run by a woman hater. There’s been a lot of abuse, and it is still going on. Most ladies (me included) had to really struggle to maintain an healthy dose of self-esteem. ….

    ————————————————————————-

    Thank you Laura for the gifts, I am sure you have a terrific taste in music, unfortunately my PC is slow to download YouTube so I never get to really listen to what you send.
    I will make a note of the artists you like and look them up sometimes.

    As far as the self -esteem issue with women in the old times I remember I was furious (sure RB will feel gratified at this if he could read)at RB for inviting only men at his Symposiums.
    Later on occasionally I washed dishes at the Academy after such events so I could be part of these celebrations somehow. Poor Me!
    I remember taking Advil was encouraged at the beginning of these dinners to cope with hangovers.
    Think about: medication + alcohol = liver damage eventually.
    But who cared? The machine is just the machine.
    A drunk machine is even better especially male.

    The guys used to flood the kitchen afterwards and hug the few girls around as much as possible, hornier than ever.
    One time RB after dinner with 12 guys was getting ready to go to SF to catch a plane with his male entourage. I was finishing my “octave” of dishwashing, and pointing at me he said to a French guy: isn’t she sweet? I looked up at his uncovered teeth seeing a curly pubic hair in his smile.
    Of course I buffered and I was sweet… compliment from the higher centers.

    Sorry RB, this is my little testimony about your compulsive “eating”.


  129. 120 Elena ~

    Hope that email (from you know who) helped.

    :.)


  130. December 9, 2002

    Deleted at the author’s request


  131. 117 Graduates

    Maybe so, but in practice it is often what we call the force that causes us to hesitate to do things that the least attractive parts of ourselves would like to do, and what we call it when others hesitate to do things we wish they would do. As in “It is feminine dominance that makes you hesitate to have sex with your teacher, goodness,” or “It would be feminine dominance for me to help this person, who ought to be able to help himself,” or “It would be feminine dominance for me not to flame someone on the blog because I strongly disagree with her perspective.”


  132. Feminine dominance is the result of a failure to resist the automatic sense of injustice that issues from the seven of hearts. Women are far more susceptible to that card’s brand of identification than most men.

    ************
    Behind the cult of feminine dominance is the highly identified reaction of a sense of injustice, all the rules of society are a reaction to this identification and serve to relieve the uncomfortable pressure that arises in people when things are not organized properly and policed sufficiently. “He’s doing something that is not generally agreed among the majority to be acceptable (therefore since I don’t understand it then it must be perverse)” is a negative-half jack of hearts sensation that makes people uncomfortable, if it is not “nipped in the bud” (meaning the non-conforming party be stopped) then the discomfort rises into the queen of hearts and takes up all the attention, this is the state of feminine dominance.

    Any reaction to the events of life that is not tempered and directed by focused intelligence (along with intelligent emotion), any loss of understanding that always the main point of existence is the stimulation of higher consciousness and the maintenance of the necessary conditions for it, is a reaction prompted by feminine dominance. Identifying (negatively) is feminine dominance because always the justification for the identification is that this is something that should not happen, “it’s an outrage.” The intelligent reaction to negative stimulation is to devise a plan to improve the condition from the point of view of psychological work and then take steps to make the changes. When most of the energy is wasted in outrage, complaint and helplessly insisting that the world is not right, then likely nothing intelligent will suddenly, accidentally change the world. Often things in life have to go “amiss” in order to wake men and women out of their patterns of automatic existence. For women there is more of a biological resistance to these disruptions because it always threatens the welfare of their emotional/instinctive charges – the young humans that came out of their bodies. For those women that do not have children then severe disruptions threaten their plans to have children. I can’t speak for other men, but having children never once entered into my plans. I never engaged in a relationship with a woman with the aim to have children with her. In my mind the maintenance of an organize society for the sake of creating a healthy environment for the raising of the next generation was never a priority. It appears that the “community” always seems to be a priority for the majority of the women and those men reluctantly influenced by women. From the point of view of nature it has to be the case that the majority is concerned with the propagation of the species, that they spend most of the time and energy on this aim of life, but this does not have to be the priority for everyone. A few can escape the biological imperative. Consciousness requires disruption and actual stress on the physical organism from the point of view that it is prevented from going through its typical routines, a sense of injustice that these necessary disruptions occur is feminine dominance. One can see many ex-members of the FoF boasting that now they just “live their lives” satisfied that all the esoteric nonsense is removed from it, they are happy because there is no pressure on their hearts, minds and bodies to resist the sleep of a purely biological existence. In my view if they want to develop what is not fully developed within themselves they will need to create an artificial atmosphere of at least psychological pressure because there is not enough pressure in everyday life to develop.

    Another sense of injustice that is feminine dominance is the usual attitude toward violence. In fact, because of the sentimental attitudes (mainly expressed and promoted among women) against violence it is in every age made far more prevalent than otherwise would have been necessary if there was a realistic attitude about it. It is a fact of life that if a person or a group of people are seen to be weak and hesitant to use violence then those always ready to use it, the inevitable aggressors that live by instinctive impulses, will attack them. Sometimes violence is necessary as a defense and a deterrent, but what makes it something useful rather than something wasteful is the desired intelligent result. It is sometimes necessary to destroy a corruptive or threatening element when it cannot be reasoned with. It is feminine dominance to insist that all violence for any reason is harmful, that point of view is not naturally true. At the same time people as collective groups, human cultures as a whole, are irrational, whole countries go to war and kill substantial portions of their populations (mainly male populations) over feminine dominance issues.

    Between men and women the only difference at this point in many areas of the modern world is that in general men are physically stronger than most women. Certainly women are not in general less intelligent than men, nor less capable of sophisticated movements. Traditionally women are more psychologically passive than men, but that has completely changed since the introduction of effective birth control methods. Now women can enjoy their sexual urges without having first to secure a commitment from a man to “do the right thing” if a child results from the irresistible urge to engage in sex. Also women can prepare themselves and find good jobs and so support themselves without having to partner with a man just to survive. Now women are as psychologically active as men have traditionally been. What makes women weaker is that in general they tend to identify and become subject to their emotions without mediation from their intellect far more severely than men tend to do. They become more identified. This is a psychological disadvantage both in life and in the pursuit of higher consciousness. It is difficult to generalize correctly because people are wildly individual and different from one another, there is no predictable woman that will always behave as formulated anymore than there such a man, but there are certain general traits that are observable trends for both the sexes. Much can be said about the failings of men, but the fact is that modern “progress” has been built on their backs. Now women have a chance to add their work to the society and have been doing so as a group for at least few decades.

    In a love relationship between a man and a woman there is a residual tendency for the woman to be far more emotionally dependent on the relationship for her sense of identity than it is for the man. This is a manifestation of feminine dominance, that a woman’s sense of self-worth is wrapped around her hero. Of course many men feel the same way about their woman/mother. In a relationship where the queen of hearts does not rule (it is the seat of feminine dominance), each partner feels himself/herself equal and individual even though committed to the agreement to share many of the experiences of life. The tendency in women to experience a productive life vicariously through the exploits of their man is feminine dominance programming, and that it is unsatisfying is highly evident when the man breaks with the role and begins to improvise without consideration for the woman. She feels her world beginning to come apart because she mistakenly felt that what he did in his life, she also did. A life of passive admiration for the activities of another is no real life. When it is over for one reason or another there is nothing but resentment for the betrayal of the assumed and expected vow that the couple be mutually dependant forever.

    This by no means covers all aspects of this subject, it would be impossible to include every possible point in just a few minutes of thinking.


  133. Graduates 125

    Not that it matters, but I agree with much of what you say here, although some of it is not PC, and really appreciate you putting all of this out here.

    However, you at least appear to me to confuse–in practice, not in theory–identification with emotion, and don’t seem to leave much room for a sense of injustice that is not driven by feminine dominance, or compassion, or even kindness, seeming to view them as some form of identification or other weakness. I realize you didn’t try to cover everything in one post, but the picture that emerges from this one, insightful as it is, is of the self-absorbed ubermensch, with the utilitarian view that others exist merely as friction for one’s own awakening, after which one may leave behind these mortal fools once as for all and go on to, what?

    Also, what are your thoughts about Ouspensky’s statement (from ISOTM):

    “The first thing I could record was the weakening in me of that extreme individualism which up to that time had been the fundamental feature in my attitude to life. I began to see people more, to feel my community with them more. And the second thing was that somewhere very deep down inside me I understood the esoteric principle of the impossibility of violence, that is, the uselessness of violent means to attain no matter what. I saw with undoubted clarity , and never afterwards did I wholly lose this feeling, that violent means and methods in anything whatever would unfailingly produce negative results.”


  134. Unoanimo Dearest,

    Anna’s email saying she did not feel questioned by your post and thanking me for caring, does not make me feel at all bad about telling you an aspect of yourself that while I may be mistaken in Anna’s case has been repeatedly shared with you by other people and myself back somewhere. I’m sorry if I made a mistake in Anna’s case but I hope that mistake will not keep you from seeing the issue.

    Every encounter between us is also an encounter of features which is what needs trimming. One does not have to be in a school for it to happen consistently. We run from the trimming by buffering with negativity and discarding the person.

    I’m interested in trimming anything that is standing between us. Our minds and hearts are different. We come from different nations and plays, we really have to want to make that leap for it to be possible to come even close. Talking is one way.

    The blog for me is also the students I never talked with, the work we never developed. It is perhaps the illusion that love is still possible because if you tell me that all we are doing here is burning the Fellowship down then allow me to excuse myself shortly. I am still hang up in this community, don’t know where to go nor how to get there. Home is no longer home and yet when I get to the common market the old women will embrace me with an open heart and keep the bag I buy from them while I do more shopping. The peasants vibrate without a thought the simplicity of being human and don’t take their generous eyes off yours.

    So why bother getting so upset at each other when we can’t even meet for coffee?

    The only “America” I know is the Fellowship and the blog is also the opportunity to get to know that there’s something else worth seeing here besides Marysville. The sail boats in the bay in front of San Francisco promise so much more.

    I guess I’m looking for Rumi’s “sobet” or the “dialogue of the soul” but guess we’ll also have to trim off everything that is not quite the soul.


  135. on September 1, 2007 at 9:54 pm Way.of.the.Slow.Man

    125 Graduates

    Do you have a “verbose” switch?
    If so, could you turn it off?

    I think there might be something interesting in your post, but I kept getting lost in the FOFo-babble.

    I did get the part that ex-members living their life are doomed because they aren’t suffering enough to awake. Sounds a bit black and white and simplistic.

    Slow.Man


  136. 125 Graduates

    “One can see many ex-members of the FoF boasting that now they just “live their lives” satisfied that all the esoteric nonsense is removed from it, they are happy because there is no pressure on their hearts, minds and bodies to resist the sleep of a purely biological existence.”

    Well, I don’t know about “many”, but a few. I figure once they blow off the new “freedom” they’ll start to look back and see there’s a lot of useful stuff from the past that can be used for awhile longer.

    “In my view if they want to develop what is not fully developed within themselves they will need to create an artificial atmosphere of at least psychological pressure because there is not enough pressure in everyday life to develop.”

    Can’t disagree with that. We might differ about what we each deem “necessary suffering” based on each person being so different. One man’s suffering is another man’s holiday. But I agree, at least for me, one needs to keep a fire burning in relation to one’s journey, and sometimes fire it up pretty hot to get from one place to another. But, shit, you gotta enjoy your life just as much too, or I think one’s fucking up somewhere along the way or in imagination about what’s necessary. And what’s necessary is in a constant state of flux, thank god.


  137. on September 1, 2007 at 10:31 pm Way.of.the.Slow.Man

    127 a correction:
    Please add “excessive” as follows–
    I think there might be something interesting in your post, but I kept getting lost in the ^excessive^ FOFo-babble.

    n.b.
    I’ve found the language from the FOF extremely useful as compact, information-dense communication.

    However like masturbation, when in excess, might lead to (intellectual) blindness.

    In excess, ‘work language’ seems like intellectual babbling as a justification to remain remote from life.


  138. Elena, You are not faint of heart! :)
    It is a compliment.


  139. 125 Graduates:
    “One can see many ex-members of the FoF boasting that now they just “live their lives” satisfied that all the esoteric nonsense is removed from it, they are happy because there is no pressure on their hearts, minds and bodies to resist the sleep of a purely biological existence.”
    ”Feminine dominance is the result of a failure to resist the automatic sense of injustice that issues from the seven of hearts. Women are far more susceptible to that card’s brand of identification than most men.”

    Graduates, I find your postings interesting for a number of reasons.

    1) You seem to be a fervent believer in the Fourth Way and yet you express more negativity than anyone on this blog. How do you reconcile this?

    2) Your comments above sound like a pro-FoF fanatic, an exaggerated version of Howard Carter. All this talk of “feminine dominance”, “cards”, etc. I’m amazed you’ve sustained this language through all the years since you left. Even after one year it seems pretty meaningless to me. Why do you still find this useful?

    3) Perhaps most interestingly, you seem to believe that by making efforts, putting yourself under pressure, etc., you will achieve something spiritual. Do you think you’re creating a soul, for example? Or what?

    I know you hate being challenged, but if you can respond to this without expressing negativity I would be grateful and impressed.

    Curiously, RN


  140. #120 Elena

    I don’t know.

    It seems there is a subtle, unconscious force that tends to cause people to behave in such a way as to not “make waves” and be accepted by others around them. It seems to be a formidable force. For some reason it was labeled “feminine dominance” by someone. In my opinion, that label has enabled a mysoginistic distortion to occur. I don’t care for the term and don’t use it. I was responding to what Graduates wrote.

    It also seems there is a force of violent assertion, a kind of macho, rugged , I’ll go my own way and fuck you individualism that has become (perhaps has always been) unbalanced and therefore maligned (mrogony, patriarchy) in the world.

    I guess my meager point was that they both are distortions of the masculine and feminine in humanity which are probably of equal strength. Perhaps they can be harmonized within us to create a more full relationship to the world or we can keep using them as hammers to beat each other with.

    Ironically, what my original comment was about (the vagina one) was just for a laugh. I happen to like Bjork and Kate Bush (oops) and my favorite group of all time is Enigma, probably a tie with Pink Floyd (who’s name is a euphemism for a dildo). Apparently I have a vagina already.


  141. Hello All.

    Perhaps the most important issue regarding the theory of feminine dominance is that the only things that emerge are fear and paranoia.

    Cults and cultish ideas create fear and paranoia, which are the byproducts and causes of hatred.

    The fear of female power and the wretched attempt to control it and hold it bay, only increases its rightful struggle to set itself free.

    Its repression causes it to become feral, as it attempts to chew its way out from the prison created by paranoia.

    Yeah. Maybe we should be scared of this entity. “She” has been falsely accused and wrongfully imprisoned. When “she” liberates herself from hate, there may well be grave repercussions. Still, I doubt it. Somehow, forgiveness will probably be “her” first recourse in immediately offering her generous and life giving spirit.

    The attitude that somehow the “feminine” should be feared and avoided is but one idea and its pretty darn ancient.

    It is also not a world-wide notion, although it seems to be very popular! (See: “lets cover them up in cloth so they become invisible!”)

    What about the opposite view that the “feminine” should be released unconditionally, developed freely and embraced without reserve?

    It could be valuable to try to openly acknowledge and encourage female power and allow “her” to live amongst all as a fully expressed aspect.

    The attempts to tamp it down and control it have been in play forever. Those attempts have not really resulted in anything super positive in terms of interesting changes in the world to date.

    In relation to the fellowship ideas, it is based in a bunch of 1950’s crap. It’s sheer misogyny. It’s grossly over-generalized. It’s unintelligent.

    It’s also entirely based in Robert’s obvious neurosis.

    Goddamn. That man needs a good woman.

    Here’s my new name for the half-baked theories called “feminine dominance”:

    Masculine Wimpiness.

    It says the same thing, but I’ve conveniently shifted the blame.

    Now everyone can attempt to avoid their “masculine wimpiness”. Or not…Who cares?

    LL


  142. Graduates,

    Thank you for your long exposition of your self. It is so similar to what I understood the Fellowship of Friends stood for.

    I can’t agree with your idea of community. Community for me is an extension of our selves and they are so messed up because we are so messed up. There is no inner thread between ourselves, our marriages, our friendships or our communities. Most people make money in jobs they don’t like making products that people don’t need and their lives disappear to make somebody else rich. We did exactly the same thing in the Fellowship: Remember ourselves not to express negativity while we made Robert rich and to hell with our lives which did not count. Too good or too bad if at the same time you managed to make something out of it. In the Fellowship: money to get more Gucci clothes and buy another palm tree…..and a state of presence to what is not before you.

    Your point of view of life is perfectly coherent with not being able to conceive of communities that make sense since we are the products of communities that don’t make any of it.

    I’m as confused as I find you are but where ever I’ve seen my lack of presence is where I can’t share with you because I am so identified with something else.

    I think by community I also mean the outside world and I find men are much more identified with the outside world while women as you say are more identified with the family. Men seem as blind to the sphere between the community and the individual, that is the family, as women are to the sphere beyond themselves and the family. Men seem unable to go beyond their outside world into their family and women unable to go beyond their family into the outside world and it is not just making money or changing the diapers what makes the difference. It is something inherent in our sexes. The intellectual, the emotional……. the lack of tuning them to make music in the three spheres of our lives: individual, family, community….. and not individuals spread out like pieces of atom bombs trying to make sense of their lives in uncontrollable cities where no body counts.

    What I find amazing about the fellowship is that it used every possible horror that we were already exposed to in life, to justify the form it conditioned us to live in. It turned life inside out and made us voluntarily renounce to our selves by making women of his boy whores and men of his money producing women.

    It is no wonder we are still so confused.

    Thank you Yesri Baba…… and Vera.mente for the compliment. Good you clarified it was one because I would not have gotten it! It is that obvious that you knew, Whow!


  143. Yesri, now you’ve really done it, Graduates is presently aware that you are a sissy, he’s got you by the balls. BTW, I had a good male friend in the FoF who had joined because of Kate Bush (it’s a longer story than that, let’s just say that she had been the “initial spark”). And another who could blame it on Devo…
    Isn’t life funny? Should we have just stuck with R&R?

    so, here goes # 6 in a series of posts joining the Journey Forth to Isis celebrations:
    The great Chan Marshall, aka Cat Power, singing Cross Bones Style.

    ‘Cause you have seen some
    Unbelievable things
    http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=wXWvjkX446A


  144. 133 ton

    Was that Roger Waters toward the end of that video?

    135 Laura

    Back in the early 70’s Joni Mitchell’s “Court and Spark” tore me up.

    If anyone thinks they have me by the balls they better pack a big , fucking lunch cause it is going to be a long, painful day.


  145. Hello Graduates ~

    Your post, thank you, it has helped me with some ‘closure’ and some ‘expansion’ on certain ‘things’ which are occurring these days in my life; mostly it shows me (again) how subtle the shades of our daily lives trip us up when we ‘think’ we’re getting somewhere, though are actually sleep walking in Penn Station in our underwear.
    ____________________________________________

    You wrote ~

    “Feminine dominance is the result of a failure to resist the automatic sense of injustice that issues from the seven of hearts.

    is a negative-half jack of hearts

    In a relationship where the queen of hearts does not rule (it is the seat of feminine dominance)…”

    ______________________

    IMO, with every ‘after the dust has cleared’ level of being change comes a sort of resistance to further ‘work’, a kind of ‘I am-ness’ occurs, yet, wavering behind the euphoric sense of this ‘new man-level’ is a goal oriented ego, a voice that likes to hold onto achievements and revelations as finished things, mile markers upon an unknowingly (and oftentimes unsuspecting) expanding and contracting global tectonic plate system;

    in other words, the chaos theorists way of measuring linear distance comes in handy to throw off this ‘ego’, the self that senses that knowing something for sure is power or the effect of a ‘self’. For me, I sense I understand a tiny fraction of how it was that Meher Baba was hitting his head against things so much that he lost some of his teeth during his ‘becoming’.

    The power of the mind can often trick us into believing that we can love anything we can analyze, talk with, effect by doing so or see from our ability to invest upon it our version of ‘objective life insurance salesmanship’.

    Yet, IMO, love is something else, it’s knowing so much that one can reverse the knowing back upon itself and dissolve it, like a snake swallowing it’s own tail till it’s insatiable appetite breaks it’s own back… then, silence, being with a comma, not a PERIOD!

    Reading your definitions of ‘Feminine Dominance’ I noticed something rather ‘odd’, that in all of it’s ‘Family Tree’ you never mention the enormous role that the King of Hearts plays in the ‘formation’ of this ‘child’ prodigy.

    IMO, often, what we leave out of an article that we’re writing is what’s partly writing it, that does not wish (sub-consciously) to be revealed for it is concealing a deeper something underneath ‘all that writing’:

    this I can see as a possibility in your article; after all, it’s the Ten of Hearts that has indoctrinated the Seven of Hearts into Law, into the ‘Wheel of Life’ interpretation of the Ten Commandments, reasons for war, education, art, etc.

    Too, I believe that it was/is the Ten of Hearts that presides and presses the ‘Cause’ of Feminine Dominance and the Seven of Hearts it’s ‘Effect’. So, they work in unison, as the Seven of Hearts holds the ‘baby’, the Ten of Hearts is pregnant with another, while it commands whole armies across the globe to insure itself a ‘safe gestation and delivery’.

    Whatever ‘Feminine Dominance’ (IS) it’s not feminine, nor is it masculine, it’s a corruption of the confusion within that SPACE in between the two. Some of it’s contaminants are competition, fear, personal comparisons in defense, desire for less material so to be more ‘spiritual’, etc, i.e., Chief Features playing in a sand box that’s always been ‘Off Limits’, something went askew, perhaps it’s always been this way, I do not know.

    Is it not curious that ‘Feminine Dominance’ relies on the positive smugness of the King of Clubs for having found another ‘woman thing not to do’ in order to ‘work against it’?

    Is it not the King of Clubs sole profession to WORK AGAINST threats? Threats to what; maybe it’s comfort level, it’s mind-centered ‘little me-self image’?

    And, irony #2 ~ What does the ‘good student’ do in order to ‘fight against’ Feminine Dominance? He or She DOMINATES a cosmic third force (labeled by a liar and a hypocrite as ‘just mechanical’, ‘just a faster route to moon-hell’) with a very personal subjective first force, which originates in the King of Clubs and defeats the ‘Crocodile’ by spearing it with one of it’s sister’s teeth…

    this is why and how it is that ‘tension’ occurs when the outside world (the feminine dominance of Mother Earth) asks one’s inside world for assistance, the pain body simply does not want to help, it wishes to keep it’s ‘little story’, it’s private negativity towards all things asking it to do stuff other than what it has already agreed to do or has had enough King of Clubs time in considering all the repercussions before saying ‘Yes’; Reich called it “armoring”… I call it ‘Everyone wants love but won’t give it till they get it first.’

    IMO, it’s the Ten of Hearts (and all the 9 & 8 voices underneath it’s thumb, i.e., it’s ‘buttons’) one must die to in order to jump inside the ‘Cause’ of ‘Feminine Dominance’ and not it’s ‘Effect’;

    this has been, yet another, one of the Fellowship of Friends and Robert Burton’s largest ‘oops’ in their School of Relative Awakening (esoterically speaking),

    that they spend millions of dollars, thousands of hours pointing to the ‘Effects’ and strategies on how to avoid them, all along not knowing a gram concerning the ‘Cause’;

    the irony of it is, that in their ‘pointing’ (the proverbial ‘esoteric-Intentional Mother’s Finger) they are feeding and prolonging the existence of this ‘sympathetic virus’ in the psyche of the spiritual dimension by being in their 9 of Hearts, the best card for ’emotionally, sleekly pointing’ a ‘Relative Finger’ at the obvious, i.e., what contradicts the Law’s of I-won’t-ness belonging to the King of Clubs, who assists greatly (behind the scenes) in keeping one from going beyond the entire King of Hearts fluff to get to the Real Work, the transformation of the ‘fluff producer’, not it’s ‘fluffinesses’,

    while all along being very ‘not obvious’ to it’s own inner dialog feeding the negative and positive halves belonging to the bottom of it’s own barrel it’s soaking in, i.e., the Jack of Hearts, the pissed off (and sometime ecstatic) child within.

    It’s a vicious circle and this is how the Fellowship of Friends is shaped, like a spiral; and as Robert Burton and his ‘teaching’ ages with time (not like well corked wine), like all spiral-lawed things, it begins slowly to go from a city to resembling an oasis, hence, ‘Isis’, till one day, it will return to it’s origin, The Dot, some star somebody wished upon not knowing that the star itself died three million years ago and that many fervent wishes are made upon ‘Light’, not solids masses of galactic crumblies; something the Fellowship of Friends is still ‘growing’, like lead crystal at Phillip Morris, calling it ‘Real Crystal from Brazil’.

    ___________________________________________

    You wrote ~

    “I can’t speak for other men, but having children never once entered into my plans.

    A few can escape the biological imperative. Consciousness requires disruption and actual stress on the physical organism from the point of view that it is prevented from going through its typical routines, a sense of injustice that these necessary disruptions occur is feminine dominance.

    It is sometimes necessary to destroy a corruptive or threatening element when it cannot be reasoned with. It is feminine dominance to insist that all violence for any reason is harmful, that point of view is not naturally true.”

    _____________________________________

    Are you centered in the King of Clubs?

    To me, pitting the King of Clubs lifestyle and philosophy up against the King of Hearts (when they’re actually bar room bed fellows) has been done enough by Robert Burton and George Bush…

    Graduates, can we go further than that, with hearts that are not skewered on Robert Burton’s upraised ‘sword’ or those swords of our own?
    ______________________________________

    You also wrote ~

    “and that it is unsatisfying is highly evident when the man breaks with the role and begins to improvise without consideration for the woman. She feels her world beginning to come apart because she mistakenly felt that what he did in his life, she also did. A life of passive admiration for the activities of another is no real life. When it is over for one reason or another there is nothing but resentment for the betrayal of the assumed and expected vow that the couple be mutually dependent forever.”
    __________________________________________

    I would like to re-write this to fit my current, personal, ‘objective’ circumstance; certainly we won’t believe, upon our death beds that our death cannot be a private and a galactic one simultaneously, or will we ‘be’ even smaller, more dense egos, while the death bed bemoans our bemoaning egos echo?
    __________________

    My re-write ~

    … and that it is unsatisfying is subtly evident when the woman breaks with the role and begins to improvise and command with the ‘rules of habit’ without consideration for the man and herself. He feels his world beginning to come apart because he mistakenly felt that what she did in his life, he and she also did. A life of active and passive admiration for the activities of another is no real life or death. When it is over for one reason or another there is nothing and everything, but resentment and wisdom, for the betrayal and ignorance of the assumed, expected and heart-wished for vow that the couple be mutually independently dependent forever, while agreeably, lovingly together.”

    __________________________________

    You concluded ~

    “This by no means covers all aspects of this subject, it would be impossible to include every possible point in just a few minutes of thinking.”
    ______________________

    And I thought I was suave! Come on Graduates, tell us a story, anything that’s not fourth way or a reply to this posting; at least initially, for sure this is an invitation to correspond with you; I think you know what I mean by “reply to this posting”.

    ______________________

    Love to you all (and Ragu)


  146. Silence is always new.


  147. Robert believes higher forces communicate with him using numbers.

    Love Malcolm

    My back aches, my ass is sore;
    I simply can’t fuck any more;
    I’m covered with sweat,
    And I haven’t come yet,
    And my God, it’s four forty-four!


  148. Malcolm, please I’d like to order a copy of the complete Daily Cards set.


  149. Yes Malcolm, you have certainly found your muse. Divine perspiration!


  150. this is an odd way of communicating, maybe because it’s new for me, last week was my first visit to the gf site and this blog… but it is communication, and as such it’s many things, a forum for personal testimonials, a seed-bed for ‘new ideas,’ but mostly it seems to be an attempt at conversation amongst friends, who don’t always agree and might ‘rub each other the wrong way.’ but what is it we’re attempting to communicate?

    it’s stating the obvious to say elimination of face-to-face interaction changes relating and communicating… writing interpretations of ‘scripture’ (‘work ideas’),
    in order to bludgeon each other, or to filibuster, or to impress, is at best counter-productive and at worst, it is a continuation of delusional thinking, vestiges of the fof — i don’t wish to imply that this is always the effect, intention or case here. slow man and bruce put it well in # 128, 129. ‘work language’ can be a useful tool in the attempt to communicate more precisely, but we know it can be used as a means of ‘mind-control’ in the most negative sense of the term, it can be used as a weapon.

    the ‘feature’ of ‘dominance’ — in whatever gender — is very much involved in the dynamics of the blog… as it probably is in the ‘bloggosphere’ in general, the content of the language may be different but the mechanics of ‘features’ are the same. who, or ‘what’ controls the conversation? this is a very interesting aspect to study in the interactions here. use of ‘work language’ for dominating the ‘conversation’ can be frustrating to witness… but it is part of ‘the work’ to recognize manifestations of dominance as such.

    back in the late ’80’s i had a notion to put together a video documentary based on taped interviews of different stories from ex fof members. the idea was not pursued to any extent, but i did record a few people at the time, one being a friend whom i haven’t heard from since ’91(?!) he contacted me through this site last week and reminded me about it.

    this website was not in place in the late 80’s or if it was, i wasn’t aware. had it been, the video idea might have grown legs and gone somewhere… i’m wondering what kind of response it gets now… ? or maybe it’s already been done? (if so i would be interested in seeing what has been done, if anyone has info).

    school starts next week, it’s ‘a horror’ because of the time and energy involved, but i hope to continue to check the blog. otherwise, if there is interest or feedback for the idea of a video project, please contact me at: me.gnome@verizon.net

    thank you laura #25 for a truely amazingly awesome piece of writing!

    daily card… as always, your writing is full of vinegar and pith.

    thank you elena for your search and for being here, you have found home.

    thank you sheik and ‘fellowbloggers’

    “Outside of a small circle of friends…

    Oh look outside the window, there’s a woman being grabbed
    They’ve dragged her to the bushes and now she’s being stabbed
    Maybe we should call the cops and try to stop the pain
    But Monopoly is so much fun, I’d hate to blow the game
    And I’m sure it wouldn’t interest anybody
    Outside of a small circle of friends “


  151. Inspired by ‘ton’s small circle of friends, a cautionary tale for my own friends on “the inside”. No telling what may happen when conscience begins to wake up.

    http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33123

    Joseph G


  152. 142 Joseph G

    Wow. Are you sure there isn’t an ex-Fellowship member on staff at the Onion? I hope all the defenders of Robert’s predatory behavior get a chance to read that.


  153. 141 ‘ton ~

    It seems you have a very dismal outlook on the ‘in the box’ routine via the blog impression, yet, I am thankful that it’s only your current opinion and not something that’s inherently true to what is really occurring in here;

    the ‘poem’ you posted below your post is a very private take on what it is to be active and true to oneself in such a situation; for whatever that’s worth it reminds me of the time I found myself rushing down three flights of stairs with 12 gauge shotgun in hand about to stop a thief from carrying off someone’s life possessions:

    then I stopped and tallied up the situation, somehow Commonsense grabbed me and I understood that shotguns in the defense of an unarmed or armed robbery did not go together, so I simply went back upstairs and called the police, who, of course were too late…

    perhaps the drama of the situation was ‘heightened’ because I knew for sure that (he) was the same guy who broke down three doors in order to rob me of many ‘personal items’ a few months prior, causing me to have to move to a more populated apartment building;

    sense of security was also ‘robbed’, later to have a police gun in my face that same day (of my apartments robbery) from a confusion of police-calls, i.e., two separate policemen showing up on the scene, one with me and the other not knowing that another fellow officer had already took the call, being upstairs in another apartment broken into, etc.

    IMO, the blog is about the kind of love that Rumi writes about, it’s Sufism at it’s best, i.e., unnoticeable by the logical mind, yet, it’s there for sure…

    For me, the ‘worth’ of the blog is not in it’s literals or it’s ‘yes’ and ‘no’ conflicts or resolutions, aka The Soap Opera, it’s simply in it’s ‘now-state and subject of affairs’…

    and as Rumi once wrote “Tonight, the subject is Love.”

    To get beyond the King of Hearts ‘idea’ of love is not difficult, one simply needs to stop telling (BELIEVING) oneself that conflict, misunderstandings and negativity are enemies of Love, then prove it… read more Rumi and less Steven King.

    I have verified that real love attracts suffering, like a magnet, for where else would a starving, dressed in red, flea infested, crippled wolf at the end of it’s wolf-ego tether theater go for help, but to a sweet old woman’s house?

    There’s more to Little Red Riding Hood’s story than the Heaven and Hell believers would like to hear about.

    _____________________

    Love to you all


  154. uno

    mostly, my post was about communication but i didn’t mention the ‘other end of the stick’ in communication which is interpretation. i feel you mis-interpreted my effort at communication and perhaps that’s my fault. i don’t think ‘a dismal outlook’ as you put it accurately describes what was behind, or at least the intention of my previous post. some interpretations can tend to lead to ‘personal attacks.’ the part of the song that i included was posted more for the the particular lines ” And I’m sure it wouldn’t interest anybody Outside of a small circle of friends “ and this in relation to the idea of a video project… but i included more content from the original song… which has a dark theme, my mistake… and so i understand why you might think it dismal.

    on another note i’ll include below is a different line from the song, a much lighter stanza but certainly addressing the issue of ‘indifference’ and turning a ‘blind-eye.’ as far as that goes, the onion article posted by josephg is focused and more to the point concerning one of the main subject/ topics of the blog.

    “Smoking marihuana is more fun than drinking beer,
    But a friend of ours was captured and they gave him thirty years
    Maybe we should raise our voices, ask somebody why
    But demonstrations are a drag, besides we’re much too high
    And I’m sure it wouldn’t interest anybody
    Outside of a small circle of friends”

    cheers


  155. ‘ton You’re still slipping in the credit giving department. The song is by Phil Ochs.


  156. Dear all,
    Just came across the following passage and thought you might find it of interest (not that it’s new, but it’s well said):

    “The possession of a strong Magnetic Centre is at the same time both a dangerous and a precious attribute.
    In the absence of its owner’s meeting with the source of any genuine information it may render him the victim of false prophets, of charlatans, of sincere self-deceivers, of imposters and of spurious teachers whose ignorance exceeds even his own. Though half-suspecting the fallacies he swallows, an insatiable interest may force him to deny his own intellectual integrity and he may end an abnormal and credulous dupe.
    But the same Magnetic Centre may also, if chance favors him, open to him the unique opportunity of a genuine version of the Hidden Learning, for it attracts to itself and there preserves stray hints and suggestions of the existence of Magnetic Centre and of both the dangers and the boons of its possession.
    By all means permit it to function; but let its functioning be controlled by common sense and by that skepticism which is an attribute of reason itself.”
    (C. Daly King – ‘Oragean Version’, p. 47)


  157. thanks xena #146
    apparently a weakness of mine here in the blogosphere… at least there were parentheses this time.

    alice, thanks for the quote… i think intuition has a lot to do with ‘magnetic center.’ intuition working with reason….


  158. ICE ICE Satin Satire Solicitations
    ____________________________________

    Robert ~ Goodness, Dear, what is it?

    Mother ~ It’s twins!

    Robert ~ Goodness! Goodness, I meant, boys or girls?

    Mother ~ I’ve chosen not to know, to have them the old fashioned way.

    Robert ~ I see.

    Mother ~ Do you like twins Robert?

    Robert ~ Oh, yes, particularly when shaving, we get the same nicks every time.


  159. # 7 in a series of posts joining the Journey Forth to Isis celebrations.

    To conclude our weeklong celebrations with a truly memorable event, and to inspire and breathe life into the way we use the various old and new forms of the School, we are delighted to present you with a remarkable treat:
    the Feminine Dominance Choir performing a special tribute to our Beloved Teacher.

    Hear the lovely praise rising from the grateful bosoms of his sincere students and watch the beautiful sight of the release of their joyous souls. You are all warmly invited to participate to the chorus.

    Come, come, whoever you are
    And sing together with us
    La-la-la-la…

    http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=rdG618TMc5E&mode=related&search=


  160. 150 Laura

    Great one. I want to thank you, thank you.

    lty


  161. ________________________________________

    And for you Isis (the one in Oregon House California).
    _________________________________________

    I married Isis on the fifth day of May,
    But I could not hold on to her very long.
    So I cut off my hair and I rode straight away
    For the wild unknown country where I could not go wrong.

    I came to a high place of darkness and light.
    The dividing line ran through the center of town.
    I hitched up my pony to a post on the right,
    Went in to a laundry to wash my clothes down.

    A man in the corner approached me for a match.
    I knew right away he was not ordinary.
    He said, “Are you lookin’ for somethin’ easy to catch?”
    I said, “I got no money.” He said, “That ain’t necessary.”

    We set out that night for the cold in the North.
    I gave him my blanket, he gave me his word.
    I said, “Where are we goin’?” He said we’d be back by the fourth.
    I said, “That’s the best news that I’ve ever heard.”

    I was thinkin’ about turquoise, I was thinkin’ about gold,
    I was thinkin’ about diamonds and the world’s biggest necklace.
    As we rode through the canyons, through the devilish cold,
    I was thinkin’ about Isis, how she thought I was so reckless.

    How she told me that one day we would meet up again,
    And things would be different the next time we wed,
    If I only could hang on and just be her friend.
    I still can’t remember all the best things she said.

    We came to the pyramids all embedded in ice.
    He said, “There’s a body I’m tryin’ to find.
    If I carry it out it’ll bring a good price.”
    ‘Twas then that I knew what he had on his mind.

    The wind it was howlin’ and the snow was outrageous.
    We chopped through the night and we chopped through the dawn.
    When he died I was hopin’ that it wasn’t contagious,
    But I made up my mind that I had to go on.

    I broke into the tomb, but the casket was empty.
    There was no jewels, no nothin’, I felt I’d been had.
    When I saw that my partner was just bein’ friendly,
    When I took up his offer I must-a been mad.

    I picked up his body and I dragged him inside,
    Threw him down in the hole and I put back the cover.
    I said a quick prayer and I felt satisfied.
    Then I rode back to find Isis just to tell her I love her.

    She was there in the meadow where the creek used to rise.
    Blinded by sleep and in need of a bed,
    I came in from the East with the sun in my eyes.
    I cursed her one time then I rode on ahead.

    She said, “Where ya been?” I said, “No place special.”
    She said, “You look different.” I said, “Well, not quite.”
    She said, “You been gone.” I said, “That’s only natural.”
    She said, “You gonna stay?” I said, “Yeah, I jes might.”

    Isis, oh, Isis, you mystical child.
    What drives me to you is what drives me insane.
    I still can remember the way that you smiled
    On the fifth day of May in the drizzlin’ rain.

    __________________________________________

    http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=igW2s4C_eV4

    __________________________________________

    l.t.y.a.


  162. It is intriguing to watch people reject those portions of reality that refuse to support their self-satisfying, self-betraying world view, there is a profound sadness in their attempts to laugh at the irrefutable information that unmistakably turns their ineffective philosophy into a joke.


  163. It would be fruitless to comment on someone elses inablity to proceed through a work octave and not be willing to do so ones self. I forgive Greg, he really can’t help himself. There is nothing he has or could say that I have not thought myself.

    I am taking this opportunity to study an internal octave on a practical level. It takes a while to get over the identification and imagination and the desire to repond in kind but it is progressing nicely. Hopefully I will have been able to say I transformed the negativity and passed the si do interval relativly soon.

    I don’t need to do the Fellowship act of indifference. I am not indifferent about his attack and I am glad I am not. It is good to feel as Rilke said “we do not see the outlines of our feelings only what informs it from the outside”.

    It is interesting to observe how others respond to criminal behavior. I would have imagined that most would have had enough in the Fellowship and become both able to “see’ this triad and less tolorant.

    In recovery there is a saying “Don’t let someone live rent free in your head”. This corresponds to experiencing inner considering with elements of identification , negativity and imagination in relation to someone else.

    After passing the mi-fa interval in the “the work” octave” it is possible to observe that mechanical elements do not cease or even the processes of the 2nd state cease but something that can observe and develop further impressions develops. The 3rd state does not replace the 2nd state it is added on. In the 3rd state one begins to experience ones own mechanicality as impressions.

    What this means is to observe and not identify with an internal dialogue on this subject.This is the key experience, The realization that this is my own sleep, without this observation no further development possible. It is also an observation of the digestion of impressions and how long it takes to process and refine certain shocks.

    If Greg is able to upset me the reason is because of my own sleep and the answer is not about him but about me. I have a certain amount of choice and as I said it would be fruitless to comment on the work octave and not be willing to try and do it in oneself. If I did that I would be Greg.


  164. 155 A Former Student:
    “It takes a while to get over the identification and imagination and the desire to repond in kind but it is progressing nicely.”

    Congratulations on that. I wish you great success.

    “It is interesting to observe how others respond to criminal behavior. I would have imagined that most would have had enough in the Fellowship and become both able to ‘see’ this triad and less tolerant.”

    Yes, the level of tolerance surprised me too. It indicates a certain emotional insensitivity, an exaggerated open-mindedness. But off the blog everyone I spoke to who read the attack on you was appalled.

    regards, RN


  165. It is not a crime to convince a self-important, ignorant loudmouth who takes up too much space constantly crowing about “his work” to shut up for a few days. That is not a crime, it is commendable. What I said to Duncan and about Duncan was the truth, so much so that it produced enough conscience in him that he kept his ego quiet for a few days. Of course we all knew it wouldn’t last.


  166. 157 Graduates

    Mirrors.


  167. Graduates, I think you may be in imagination if you think you have convinced anyone of anything. All those who have been convinced say Aye. All those not convinced say Nay. I’ll go first. NAAAAAY


  168. 154 Graduates

    Yes, a profound sadness.

    “If we were to realize the enormous suffering each person has experienced, we would never again judge another human being.”
    Henry David Thoreau

    It makes me sad when you attack people.

    “To all the muffled and dumb creatures in the world, joyfully add yourself and cancel the account.” Rilke


  169. Yesri baba 161

    It makes me sad when you attack people.

    ***********

    Then why watch? Find something else to do.


  170. 162

    or is it Oi!


  171. It might be worth mentioning that nearly every one of Duncan’s posts for the past month or three have included at least one barb, swipe or condescending comment about Gr/Gr – started to get rather silly. Gr had been doing a decent job of ignoring it for a couple of weeks since the last outburst – too bad he’s decided to escalate the level of insult to the point of an unbearable heavy-handed virulence. But Duncan is not entirely innocent.

    Personally, I wish you both would take your arguments out to the back 40 and duke it out in private. Otherwise, just hit the old down arrow and refrain from commenting about each other’s opinions about the 4th Way or each other. Your pissing match is basically of no interest to the rest of us. Why on earth you would care about each other’s “work” is beyond me – but my feeling is that it is not altruistic.


  172. i think it’s oy vey…
    or just ‘ow’


  173. 157 Graduates

    A ways back on the blog you told Bruce “the last thing you will see is me”.

    This is true and not true.

    When we awaken we know ourselves and each other.

    You know how difficult this is. You know how you deceive yourself so you know how we deceive ourselves.

    Duncan does not deceive himself more or awaken less than you, I or anyone else. He has his own way of expressing himself like we all do.

    Anyone who is farther along certainly would be coming from a place of greater compassion even though it may seem to be harsh.

    Is this true for you?


  174. Silence is not always indifference, particularly in here, where getting out of the way of two snarling dogs with their chains tangled up in one another’s is not always a bad idea; at least IMO it’s a time experiment. I have noticed that oftentimes the more “appalled supporters” an attacked person has gathered around him or herself, the less one can see who it is from the vantage point of standing outside the circle and it even happens sometimes that this crowd of ‘ambulance chasers’ can even block out the sun, giving the ‘fatally wounded’ less chance to notice, in their own broad daylight, that it’s fake blood they’re screaming about.

    And then there’s that odd thing that happens when the “hurt” begins to take on a collective “appalled consensus” adding their ‘take’ on it, to his or her own, prolonging the drama to such excesses that they lose the original thread of the premise and true scale of the attack in the first place, before long WWIII has broken out over an old WWII unexploded shell going off under a new construction site, George Bush calling it an Iranian attack.

    ‘A Former Student’ ~ thank you for keeping it personal and for not becoming yet another ‘blog martyr’, it’s difficult not to do, after all, there’s only one FOF Blog and this is it;

    another idea that (speaking of being surprised) surprises me a little is that we often take for granted the deep fact that we have been at this for a very long time and not just on the blog; that somewhere in being familiar with one another there may or may not lay the ability to possess more patience and trust in another’s ability to fall off the bull and get back on, or may not;

    I have yet to see a rodeo clown resurrect anyone from the dead, including the bull, though it certainly slices ever embittered, bible thumping institution in half to see a clown wearing a smiley face holding a young man with a broken neck, dead, in his arms, he’s crying for sure, but that smile just won’t quit tattooing itself upon one’s psychic memory- creation all the while it’s opposite is being recorded too.

    It’s not a funny world, nor is it an entirely sad one; I wish you well walking the razor’s edge and embrace both you and Graduates as my brothers of no greater or lesser anythings.


  175. uno
    i really appreciate your posts here and enjoyed the dylan… it was something new for me, never heard the song before or if i have, it’s been lost in memory.

    in #144 you write… “To get beyond the King of Hearts ‘idea’ of love is not difficult, one simply needs to stop telling (BELIEVING) oneself that conflict, misunderstandings and negativity are enemies of Love, then prove it… read more Rumi and less Steven King.”

    i think i get the point here, i think what you mean is that the ‘king of hearts’ is still a function of ‘the machine’ and your post here is a reminder that there are levels beyond that… just to set the record straight, i have never read a word of the work of stephen king, although i have to admit i’ve seen a couple of ‘made for tv’ movies based on his novels… but in fact, i do read and enjoy rumi.

    thanks for the feedback…

    it’s getting to be bedtime, i’m on the east coast…
    here’s to conscious dreaming,
    and love to you all.


  176. Yesri baba (around 165)

    157 Graduates

    A ways back on the blog you told Bruce “the last thing you will see is me”.

    This is true and not true.

    When we awaken we know ourselves and each other.

    You know how difficult this is. You know how you deceive yourself so you know how we deceive ourselves.

    Duncan does not deceive himself more or awaken less than you, I or anyone else. He has his own way of expressing himself like we all do.

    Anyone who is farther along certainly would be coming from a place of greater compassion even though it may seem to be harsh.

    Is this true for you?

    *******************

    Duncan begged for my attention and he finally got it, now why don’t both of you quit sniveling about it?

    The provocation (prompted by that “Cheerios feeling” that comes from the effects of a new medication):

    a former student 339/blog 19

    Dear Graduates

    “it is Maurice Nicoll who first wrote about the “Work-Octave” as such in more detail. There are 3 chapters on the Work-Octave in vol. 3 of the Psychological Commentaries (pp. 1074-1083)

    In the first chapter he states the first 3 notes:

    Do: evaluation of the Work-ideas.

    Re: the application of the Work-ideas to oneself.”

    Perhaps this is why your theorizing can be so irritating. Perhaps it is the emotional perception that one who directs all their energy to theorizing about others is not processing the ideas internally and not going past the initial Do.

    The idea of the note Re- indicates that the proper focus and tense is oneself, my sleep, my features, my thoughts, my identifications. What I bring of value to the discussion of these ideas is my experience, my observations, my thoughts. Not because they are objectively correct but because they are a reflection of my being at any point in time.

    I think that reflecting on the outer world and greater scales is a useful process but not if it is at the expense of inner work.

    I think your writing has improved immensely and it seems to be just a simple change in the use of pronouns. I hope you are enjoying being received in a more positive way.

    Now are you brave enough to reveal a little of yourself in your post’s? With all your deep thought there is a massive lack of any thing simple and real in your writing, it still tends towards being about the outer rather than internal world.

    You can of course return to your pissed of how dare he or anyone care about me attitude, and perhaps you will be right why bother? Perhaps the idea that you have something of value to contribute is a fantasy that is better not indulged Oh well.


  177. Dear Lurkers,

    Please don’t be put off by the contentious atmosphere on this blog.

    The most dedicated and consistent posters are “doing their thing,” for whatever reason, and they do seem to have their particular and peculiar roles in this ‘play.’

    However, they do not “own” this blog…

    After some time, I have seen that the exchanges that occur here, whatever they may be, can be quite useful — for blog participants, as well as blog observers — if we but allow.

    So, trust yourself to sift through the chaff, and to find the ‘wheat’ that may feed you… React and comment!

    It’s not all that difficult to post your personal story, quite anonymously.

    I’ve found it to be therapeutic to air my thoughts and feelings in this blog-space, for better or worse, along with an explicit open invitation to possible criticism and ensuing self-examination.

    For whatever reasons (ok, fear…) I do remain somewhat cautious in my postings in this public internet-space, but I am sincerely grateful that the forum of this web-log exists!

    So, feel free to let go, as you will, and let your words and feelings flow… You may help yourself, and others — myself included.

    RSVP. (Don’t worry about imperfect English!)

    P.S. Personal stories illuminate!

    Sincerely, my2bits.


  178. 164

    definitely not “ow”.


  179. 168 Graduates

    Why don’t I quit “sniveling” about it and do something else?

    Glad to.


  180. Remembrances of concerts at the Golden Gate Park, noticing the problems is I haven’t had enough fun for too long!

    Time for fun!


  181. The 45th conscious being. Debbie Harry


  182. 172 Elena

    Look at it this way: You have a lot of fun to catch up on. As your doctor I recommend that you have ONLY fun for the next six months.


  183. on September 3, 2007 at 4:51 am Way.of.the.Slow.Man

    Schools are where you find them
    Teachers are everywhere

    Wonderful breakfast this morning–
    2 7yr ex-FOFers (not ex-students), left 23yrs ago
    1 10 yr ex-FOFer, left 22 yrs ago
    1 Maharahji ex-devotee, very ‘alive’

    Amidst the cacophony of a popular restaurant
    creating states beyond the ordinary
    sharing experiences and desires
    although they sparked a starting,
    no conscious teachers lurking


  184. 175

    ” no conscious teachers lurking”

    You lucky dog.


  185. Dear Elena

    One can’t learn humor. One can’t teach humor. But one can be open to it.
    Humor is a quality of harmoniously balanced human being. Ouspenskiy said
    somewhere that humor is a substitute to self-remembering in life.

    Humor is forbidden in FOF and negatively called “7 of hearts” BECAUSE it can
    wake us up. Like a sword, it cuts through bullshit, exposing all Burton’s
    madness. Humor is a language of images that penetrate the human
    subconscious. It is a very dangerous thing for any cult, where everything is
    presented extremely SERIOUSLY.

    Laughter frees a man and heals his heart-wounds. It is capable of ripping
    the mask off any object, it is capable of destroying of psychological
    borders that keep a man in dark corners of his essence, in corners of pain
    and offence. All you have to do is open yourself to Laughter, kind of like
    throwing yourself in lover’s arms.

    I respect your point of view and wish you successful self-discoveries.


  186. Graduates

    I am trying to figure out what keeps you on this blog. Either you’re bored
    and got nothing better to do, or you’re searching for prospective students
    who would wish to follow you – I don’t know.
    If it was up to me I would throw you out of here for your meanness,
    darkness and nastiness.
    There is so much vanity, anger and condescending attitude in your posts!
    The term “feminine dominance” is coined by Burton to express his personal
    anger, envy and hatred towards women, nothing else. So is most of his other
    terminology – an expression of madness and retardation.
    This blog exists so people can share thoughts, feelings and information
    about FOF, and not for stupid personal attacks of self-inflated egos. Your
    attempts to teach and preach here assuming everyone else is an idiot are
    simply pathetic. We all read workbooks, OK.

    Who do you think you are?

    4th way is outdated for our time. With this new millenium we moved from
    world of understanding to world of processes where only immediate
    experience of reality is valuable. Old dogmas and theories are too slow for
    the speed and intensity of this new time. The avalanche of knew information
    and knowledge wipes out paper walls of various cults.
    But if you look at 4th way as “old school” – then FOF is not a school at
    all.


  187. Graduates (168) ~

    You wrote ~

    “…it still tends towards being about the outer rather than internal world.”
    ___________________________

    Well, set an example of yourself for (or with) Duncan, a sort of invitation by some ‘good will gesture’ (and I don’t mean sympathetic good-will); why not ask of yourself what you ask of others and give as they are still ‘thinking about it’ or are you guys going to bitch about it till the moon turns to an earth, the earth a sun and the sun a moon?

    Word!


  188. Graduates (168) ~

    You wrote ~

    “…it still tends towards being about the outer rather than internal world.”
    ___________________________

    Well, set an example of yourself for (or with) Duncan, a sort of invitation by some ‘good will gesture’ (and I don’t mean sympathetic good-will); why not ask of yourself what you ask of others and give as they are still ‘thinking about it’ or are you guys going to bitch about it till the moon turns to an earth, the earth a sun and the sun a moon?

    Word!


  189. xena 159
    Nay. Actually, Graduates, my impression is that you keep shooting yourself in the foot, I hope you don’t develop a limp.

    unoanimo 153
    What a perfect moment.
    PS in the space of 9 minutes, unbeknowed to us, both of our posts featured twins. Coincidence or synchronicity?


  190. Long weekend.

    Newly moderated comments: 33, 34, 35, 44, 111, 125, 126, 132, 135, 144, 147, 176, 190 and 191.


  191. X Ray 191:

    “The term “feminine dominance” is coined by Burton to express his personal anger, envy and hatred towards women, nothing else. So is most of his other terminology – an expression of madness and retardation.”

    At last!

    “With this new millenium we moved from world of understanding to world of processes where only immediate
    experience of reality is valuable.”

    Very well put.

    thanks, RN


  192. 44 ~

    “The site aroused respect on their part, and the FBI officer apologized for the inconvenience caused.

    ‘I also read your site’ said one of the minor officers. ‘This incident will only increase your faith in your faith’ he said, in a fairly proud tone of voice.” From Asaf (I think) *dd
    ____________________________________________

    *dd ~ This incident was ‘before’ the Blog-ette was born.

    Whew Sheik, how did that photo link in 44 get past the porno-filter? I’ll be scrubbing myself with brick dust and goose feathers for weeks!

    ____________________________________________

    45 ~

    Arthur ~ Whew! You coy dude you!

    BTW ~ Any news on that prison email address?

    _____________________________________________

    144 ~

    You wrote ~ “Goddamn. That man needs a good woman.”
    ______________________________________________

    May the feminine familiar guarding the spirit of Ouspensky’s wife lay hold upon Robert Earl Burton’s dubious azz, like a pit bull would a pedophile dressed as the UPS man.

    ____________________

    :.)


  193. on September 3, 2007 at 4:02 pm wake up little suzy wake up

    Recently, within the last 5 years or so, I have met some Born Again Christians in the area. They are fun to be with because they seem so upbeat most of the time. After befriending one awhile back I could tell that there would be nothing better for him if I joined the ranks.

    Upon questioning him about it, I asked him, “Do you mean that all I have to do is say that I take Jesus Christ as my savior and I will be saved? Does that mean that I can act and do whatever I please and as long as I say those words I’m going to heaven?” I could see the man was becoming nervous at my questions and started to stumble over his words. It wasn’t long after that that he no longer wanted to spend time with me.

    Remind you of anything?


  194. Unoanimo #197: Coy? Yes, and a high degree of fear of exposure.

    I wrote my prison pal and asked if he would share thoughts with you. I should be hearing from him any time.

    I quite writing to him for awhile because we (a couple of his associates-he has no friends it seems except me) “photographed” him as diving off the high board into an empty pool. He lost it completely.

    I feel (just a little) bad because I told him he needed to sue the state for not given him psychological counseling. The next I heard he went to the psycho part of the prison.

    The last two letters he mailed seemed “normal” and no mention of “jail-house conversions”. Sad it was.


  195. Hi all: I was writing an email to a friend, and thought that one passage might fit in to some other threads here on the blog, so here it is:

    … But, I have one comment that I don’t think anyone has had a satisfactory answer to: I think we (students in the fof) have gradually gotten used to an ever increasing level of madness in Robert. It is now to the point where we search for hidden, or at least not so obvious, meanings in his ‘teaching’, trying to find why “what he really is teaching is just be present”. I don’t think anyone can reasonably deny that at least 50% of what he says relates not to ‘be present’, but to his conviction that everything he looks at, from prehistoric cave paintings to renaissance art, actually was designed to transmit to him (and through him to us, and through us to the rest of the world) the objective truth of the sequence and 30 work i’s. I think that is being very steadfastly buffered by everyone, and is a strong sign that something is not right in Robert, the fof, and by extension our work. Saying ‘be present’ in every third sentence is not the same as being a teacher, and is not a sign that a person is a ‘conscious being’. The consensus of every traditional, tested, validated esoteric way (hindu, zen, tibetan, tao, sufi etc. — this is a very exclusive and elite list to which I do NOT include the 4th way, yet) is that an awakened or fully realized being is characterized by at least the following: dissolution of the concept of ‘I’, simplicity, understanding and living from the realization of there being no difference or boundary between ‘him’ and everything else, not controlled by passions, no fear. I do not think I can say that Robert has any of these qualities. But this is a later topic, I think. We have gotten ahead of ourselves, so to speak.


  196. .
    X-ray (around) 191

    Graduates

    I am trying to figure out what keeps you on this blog. Either you’re bored and got nothing better to do, or you’re searching for prospective students who would wish to follow you – I don’t know. If it was up to me I would throw you out of here for your meanness, darkness and nastiness.
    There is so much vanity, anger and condescending attitude in your posts! The term “feminine dominance” is coined by Burton to express his personal anger, envy and hatred towards women, nothing else. So is most of his other
    terminology – an expression of madness and retardation.
    This blog exists so people can share thoughts, feelings and information about FOF, and not for stupid personal attacks of self-inflated egos. Your attempts to teach and preach here assuming everyone else is an idiot are simply pathetic. We all read workbooks, OK.

    Who do you think you are?

    4th way is outdated for our time. With this new millenium we moved from world of understanding to world of processes where only immediate experience of reality is valuable.

    **************

    If “only [the] immediate experience of reality is valuable” to you then why does only one dissident voice seem to spoil your entire new sense of freedom? Now you propose that if anyone (or anything) gets in the way of this “immediate experience of reality” then the disruption to the expected state of rapture should be removed, where do you finally end up practicing this new religion of the new millennium in some isolated monastery?

    Quoting myself:

    “He’s doing something that is not generally agreed among the majority to be acceptable (therefore since I don’t understand it then it must be perverse)” is a negative-half jack of hearts sensation that makes people uncomfortable, if it is not “nipped in the bud” (meaning the non-conforming party be stopped) then the discomfort rises into the queen of hearts and takes up all the attention, this is the state of feminine dominance.

    Feminine dominance is the result of a failure to resist the automatic sense of injustice that issues from the seven of hearts.


  197. on September 3, 2007 at 5:20 pm wake up little suzy wake up

    I tried to change the subject but I can see that it didn’t work.
    Darn!


  198. Graduates “……..It appears that the “community” always seems to be a priority for the majority of the women and those men reluctantly influenced by women.”
    …….”Another sense of injustice that is feminine dominance is the usual attitude toward violence. In fact, because of the sentimental attitudes (mainly expressed and promoted among women) against violence it is in every age made far more prevalent than otherwise would have been necessary if there was a realistic attitude about it.”
    …….What makes women weaker is that in general they tend to identify and become subject to their emotions without mediation from their intellect far more severely than men tend to do. They become more identified. This is a psychological disadvantage both in life and in the pursuit of higher consciousness.”
    ——————–

    Hi Graduates,

    The more I pondered your 134 post, the more I find it unsubtle. Maybe use the word “formatory” here. I think you are calling upon your imaginary picture of men and women, stereotyped and reduced to little boxes in your mind (again, the word ‘formatory’ pops up). Maybe it would help to really get to know some women and men and get to know them deeply. And to get to know a community. There are many. Some DO revolve around procreation and the raising of beloved children. Some do not revolve around that at all, musical, artistic, military, academic, spiritual communities – to list just a few! There are many and woven together. Where are you coming from???

    In your last paragraph on ‘love’ relationships, I would attribute what you call ’emotional dependence’ as more a ‘physical dominance by the male’. Women, historically, and still to some extent in our contemporary day, have been physically dominated by masculine dominance. It is built into the legal systems. What you are talking about is when a man physically (instinctive center) dominates a woman –legally- and then turns around in a passive aggressive move and points an accusatory finger at womankind and calls all women emotionally dependent and less able to awaken! When a woman reacts to this legal and personal repression, you can say she is “emotional” (read: bad and weak). It all feels like you are taking out some sort of revenge on womankind which is why you get compared to RB so often in this area. It is encapsulated in a kind of ‘system’ of thinking and then unquestioned, because you might think that the rest of the ‘system’ reinforces and supports your revengeful thinking and to question any part of the ‘system’ is to question the whole of it.

    Now, to give you a break, I do feel that you get cornered sometimes and come out fighting. A former Student picks and picks and insults and snipes and then you blow up. You don’t like to be repressed either and also get emotional. OK, life includes schoolyard brawls, I’m not for censoring. And I think you have so much to say that is actually really interesting. I often agree AND disagree with what you write, and your thoughtful posts do get me thinking.

    ——–

    The fear of female power and the wretched attempt to control it and hold it bay, only increases its rightful struggle to set itself free.

    Its repression causes it to become feral, as it attempts to chew its way out from the prison created by paranoia.”

    LL

    Hi LL, I don’t have a comment here, except – well said!-.


  199. “4th way is outdated for our time. With this new millenium we moved from world of understanding to world of processes where only immediate experience of reality is valuable. Old dogmas and theories are too slow for the speed and intensity of this new time. The avalanche of knew information and knowledge wipes out paper walls of various cults. But if you look at 4th way as “old school” – then FOF is not a school at all.” 191 x-ray

    Hi x-ray,

    Yes, I agree, and thought of 188-way.of.the.Slow.man’s post which requires a subtle sort of awareness to recognize the grace of what we here might call a ‘school’. I think we have had the good fortune of studying (to a more or less degree) the 4th way, and think that this system should not dominate our minds, but at the same time should not be completely discarded. It can become a ready and useful tool, and besides, when we get too much into anything then we seem to think we know it all and that just lulls minds into dream-on land. Nevertheless, I think your observation about the current times is provocative! After all, the speed of communication and the lack of top-down control/dominance on this web of voices is one illustration of what you are saying.


  200. 201 ~

    “Feminine dominance is the result of a failure to resist the automatic sense of injustice that issues from the seven of hearts.”
    ______________________________________________

    Graduates ~ Do you sense that you “resisted the automatic sense of injustice” by quoting yourself in defense of yourself?

    ________________

    I truly do not believe that ‘X-ray’s’ wonderments about you were exclusively to serve (or reveal a contradiction to) his “entire new sense of freedom”, but rather to help show you a possible glitch in your own,

    that friendship or a passing ‘real connection’ with a stranger, can often ‘adjust’ or ‘nurture’ some deeper introspection into the subject of the hypocrisies we all have swimming around in us that keep us from reaching the shore.

    Also, I do not believe that the question “where do you finally end up practicing this new religion of the new millennium in some isolated monastery?” is altogether fair to ask someone ‘new to the blog’ like X-Ray (though one could just the same, IMO I’d like to know more about his or her ‘autobiography’ before choosing what ‘spinner’ I put on my line), rather, it’s the question he’s alluding to for you to ask yourself, i.e., albeit the question ‘could’ be for everyone on the blog and the readers as well,

    I find it ironic that your conversation to X-Ray is too, (very evident by your time here on the blog) one to yourself, one that perhaps is long overdue for all of us in some way, yet, hopefully our friends will deem themselves a bit more gentle in revealing to us (if they’re brave enough to do so) that we were seen (in their very midsts) talking to ourselves while ‘seeming’ to speak to them (I am sure you’re very familiar with that ‘glaze’ that creeps across a friend’s face when they begin self prescribing), than they are when alone, suddenly realizing that they’re talking to them-selves.

    The more I read your ‘effects’ the more I sorta desire to know more about the man himself, his essence, his spirit of things ‘the Whitman side in all of us’ (minus the sweetness for biceps and levi jeans, to each his own),

    i.e., the ’cause’, from whence all this boiling comes, for what, how or simply in what service of love does it stand a chance at being trans-formative when entering another’s “begging for attention” from you?

    Would you give a beggar Monopoly Money because that’s the only kind of money you would trust ‘his kind’ with or equate it (the Monopoly Money) to his spirit’s ‘obvious external worth’?

    People have feelings, Gurdjieff said that it was a sin to hurt another’s feelings; many have verified this; yet, like current members of the Fellowship of Friends, verifications of Robert Burton’s criminal hodgepodge ‘do’ nothing for themselves, because they cannot ‘do’ anything with the Being of Found itself,

    verifying something means nothing in the World of Being, it serves no real purpose other than establishing an emotional affirmation imbued with both a particular cosmic fact and a little personal will in having found it and self-prescribed it to oneself as a possible ‘bridge’ to ‘do’;

    yet, what good is collecting bridges if one’s real ‘I’ simply lounges around the galleria getting it’s chin polished by all the scrotum-flags of the world?

    I truly wish a different for your level of being, that somehow you can channel your passion for effecting people with the negative side of the King of Club’s sexiness and piercing-nesses, i.e., the brutal (Brutality is a hobby of the King of Clubs) ‘quasi-Gurdjieffian’ tactics that seem to have no redeeming aim

    and pull yourself together as a spiritual warrior, not a spiritual weapon-maker.

    _____________________________________

    l.t.y.a.


  201. Grand Bizarre Incident Detector (44)

    In Asaf’s letter, he makes a big to-do about all the great ‘friction’ that RB and his entourage had to bear and transform during the incident in which they were detained and questioned for a few hours.

    Well, if I may direct my comments to Asaf for a moment —sorry, bub, but what you describe just doesn’t impress me all that much. Maybe you need to look at the situation with a little more scale and relativity, ‘Goodness’.

    First of all, the plane tickets for all six of you (and I’m sure the prices were exorbitant) were paid for with funds earned by others with real jobs. None of you had to do diddly squat to get those tickets. (Well, I’m not counting letting the pathetic old poofter blow you, I guess we could consider that as something of a payment).

    So then you were called off the plane and missed your flight, thereby missing your precious Bolshoi performance at Covent Garden (the tickets for which were, no doubt, paid for by others with real jobs). Then after sitting around in a room for a few hours (My God! The Horror!) you get complementary hotel rooms and booked on the next flight. Poor babies. I’m sure you all suffered horribly there in the Sheraton or whatever it was. Probably even had to go get your own ice from the ice machine down the hall! And then to have to stay there in San Francisco for a whole day, spending other people’s money in the expensive shops while you waited for the next flight – my heart goes out to you.

    Thank God that Dorian at least had the presence of mind to insist that Robert and you get to sit in first class on the next flight. It probably would have simply been too much to transform if the great RB himself had been forced to sit back in coach with all the unwashed masses.

    Well, I’m sure once you managed to get to London you were all able to recuperate from the awfulness of that horrible experience by spending lots more of other people’s money, indulging yourselves in every kind of luxury. And of course Bobbo could console himself with an endless parade of boys to blow.

    On another subject, you mention how the FOF website ‘aroused the respect’ of the FBI when they were investigating you. I guess if they were so impressed, then you’ll be getting a lot of inquiries from them, wanting to join.

    That should be real interesting. I bet Robert won’t be able to keep his hands off all those handsome young agents. Yep, should be real interesting…


  202. Alice E.
    #467/19
    My apologies for the delay in this response.

    Sorry I jumped the gun there a little… yes, RB’s influence can leave one terribly full of self doubt, however, being an actress I’ve found that I’ve always had a steady supply of it pre and post fof.

    I thought you were being sarcastic because the coincidence of events you mentioned were so gentle, and I couldn’t tell if they were meaningful to you in any special way other than that they happened in close proximity to each other. Did it crack through some buffer?

    My experience with synchronicity is usually not so subtle as evidenced by my Pippa story.

    Another story: I mentioned in an earlier post how Mark L. a gifted jazz pianist (who also wrote on the blog 10 or so pages ago) befriended me about a month after I joined the fof. I had just secured my first ‘ ABC movie of the week’ and was going to the cast party after the wrap. Mark implored me not to go. He said I should go to the meeting that night instead. He gave me the ‘waste of time with life people’ rap and told me how he didn’t show up for his jazz debut organized for him by Andre Previn at the Mark Taper Forum (a but deal in L.A.!) so that he could attend a meeting. And how happy he was that he could show himself that he could separate from A influence etc… Then, the coup de gras, he asked me the name of the film. RETURN TO EARTH: the story of Buzz Aldrin (the 2nd man to walk on the moon). …Well, I didn’t need Mark to point out the synchronicity between my first paying job in Hollywood and the destination of all undeveloped earthly souls. Talk about self-doubt…I went to the cast party, did not network and scurried off to the fof meeting.

    More recently : I was dating a lawyer who I also coached for a high stakes jury trial which he lost (not my fault!). We had a rough landing and the whole 18 month episode ended about a year ago. Recently I had to do some administrative work on behalf of my daughter and needed to show my divorce certificate from her father. As I was sitting there in this government office bored, bored, bored, waiting for my turn, I looked closely at the divorce certificate and was shocked to see that the judge who had signed the decreed 15 years before was the same judge that presided over the trial. Hmmmmmmmmm.

    I won’t recount for you all the strange coincidences that happened in connection with RB while chauffeuring, dining and traveling with him but anyone reading this blog needs to keep that in mind when they wonder why everyone was so star struck in his presence, why the boys succumbed to his seduction, why ‘intelligent’ people gave him the time of day. I’m sure that those that stay in the fof now have compelling stories of synchronicity to justify their choice. And there’s no argument for that; except to say that synchronicity happens outside the fof and after the fof. Sometimes the kindest thing we can do as a friend is to share our own truth and listen to others truths at the right moment.

    Anyway, I think most bloggers are on the Red Road whether we know it or not. I’ve turned to the wisdom of Native American culture for guidance in these matters. For those who are interested there’s a Sweat Lodge with Marilyn Youngbird (sister of Wallace Black Elk) this Saturday September 8 in Moss Beach. If you’re interested please email me at actorscenter-at-gmail-dot-com and I will send you the details.
    ……………

    Laura, ‘ton, Uno, Bruce, Graduates, Elena, Life Person, Vera.m, Joseph, Former Student, KA, Ames, Daily Card, Sheik and everyone else…
    THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR POSTS!

    love,
    Shelley


  203. Hello X-ray ~

    You wrote ~

    “But if you look at 4th way as “old school” – then FOF is not a school at all.”

    ____________________

    That’s a big “But”…

    The Fellowship of Friends was never a Fourth Way School unto itself, i.e., a stand alone effigy of the labors concerning the souls of G., O., and C. (not to mention all those thousands before them who forged themselves from it’s fires abilities)… Whatever was ‘Fourth Way’ derived within the Fellowship of Friends ‘student’ AFTER sifting/filtering out all of Robert Burton’s spittle from the real rain, both from the heavens and joy/tough tears of friends. The Fourth Way existed (in) the fellows of the Fellowship of Friends, though not (in) the organism itself…

    IMO, that the Fourth Way is ‘timeless’, just as the other 3 ways are as well or any ‘way’ that might be developed in what you might term as “new school”: although your point concerning the out-dated-ness of the Fourth Way to current times looks sorta ‘Aha-ish’ at first, step back a few miles and look at the fleas whiskers one more time and you might be astonished to realize that no new system could ever be born without ‘Parents’ of the ‘old’, to me, this is a Law and I have yet to find any combination of extreme wiseacring to pull that one down into the area of subjective coffee table realms.

    ________________________

    l.t.y.a.


  204. Uno “The more I read your ‘effects’ the more I sorta desire to know more about the man himself, his essence, his spirit of things ‘the Whitman side in all of us’ (minus the sweetness for biceps and levi jeans, to each his own),

    i.e., the ’cause’, from whence all this boiling comes, for what, how or simply in what service of love does it stand a chance at being trans-formative when entering another’s “begging for attention” from you?”

    Hi Uno, Hi Graduates,

    Yes! Now, I know you, Graduates, personally, and your personal stories are epic in a sort of strange and detailed way. Dark and sparking light at the same time.


  205. Shelley M. (around) 207

    THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR POSTS!

    love,
    Shelley

    *************

    You are impressively insightful, any chance of hearing more from you?

    (Hopefully something other than more of the universally applauded complaints about my lack of sensitivity.)


  206. unoanimo (around) 205

    The more I read your ‘effects’ the more I sorta desire to know more about the man himself, his essence, his spirit of things ‘the Whitman side in all of us’…

    **************

    I’ve got no “Whitman side.” I’m not interested in any “Whitman side.” His poetry is crap. All poetry is crap.


  207. Oh, Greg, you do make me laugh sometimes! Thanks! “All poetry is crap”!!! You indeed have a “Whitman side”, thank God.


  208. 211

    Playing hard to get Huh?


  209. Elena ~

    I noticed/heard that Girard took a nasty fall the other day, face first in Rulik’s driveway; he’s really beat up from it.

    Do you have any idea how it is that he does not use a cane; of course I have my ideas, though I’d like to hear yours first. (?)

    ____________________

    l.t.y.a.


  210. Elena ~ P.S.

    Perhaps I am being a bit too ‘jovial’ asking the question here on the blog, not sure though, I believe certain razor edge personal questions can seesaw here and there so far as being appropriate for the ‘WE’, though may benefit others if the answers are handled in a gentle and caring way.


  211. on September 3, 2007 at 9:29 pm Purchasing awakening

    #44: Is Asaf in prison yet?
    Is REB in prison yet?

    No, but kinda getting there!

    Asaf tried to marry a daughter of students in Israel and got busted by INS for his existing fake marriage to E-ta. So his green card which he was about to receive went buy-buy. Now he is stuck in Israel and can’t get back to US due to his illegal and fradulent marriage activity. I guess being on one’s 9th life time doesn’t protect one from legal responsibility.
    INS is now zooming in on FOF.
    With the loss of Asaf, Beloved Teacher lost his “brain power” and can’t teach anymore. He can’t pull off teaching events and meetings – a guy can barely put a sentence of 2 meaningful words together without Asaf’s help…
    So… in his desperation he called back good old Ouspensky and Gourjieff – whom he so firmly dismissed in 2005. Unbelievable.
    Hopefully folks, you didn’t toss or burned those “outdated” work books! Pull them out, dust them and start studying. Get busy, just don’t ask any questions, Ok?

    Graduates, by the way – you may get a well-paid job in FOF – they need someone for those teaching events. It’s great time to apply, and you seem to like to teach 4th way. They’ll take you now, they are desperate!
    These events are main source of RB’s income, you know, so the show MUST go on!!!
    I suggest you apply, and spare us all from your luminous presence here please. ;)

    And this was sent to all of us in 2005:

    Dear Friends,

    Thursday morning at Breakfast, the Teacher asked Asaf to add to his recent message about turning from Gurdjieff and Ouspensky.
    He says, “Gurdjieff and Ouspensky served their part, and that it could only be one’s king of clubs that would insist on continuing reading them now.”

    With Love,

    KB
    Council Dean

    Robert is asking us to pass from reading Gurdjieff and Ouspensky’s knowledge to reading esoteric knowledge–especially esoteric knowledge used in Robert’s teaching events.

    Robert explains, “Whereas Gurdjieff and Ouspensky used to give us strength, they now slow us down.”

    And now our School can see farther because we have been given the Keys to the ancient Schools and Traditions. As a result, the Teacher asks that we turn our attention away from the knowledge presented by Peter Ouspensky and George Gurdjieff, and focus instead on the thirty Work ‘I’s and the Keys given to us by Influence C. This request includes the works of Collin, Nicoll, and others in the Fourth Way tradition, and conscious beings that did not have a school.

    A-ha-ha!!!


  212. #206 David B.

    That evoked a good chuckle. That was the reaction I had when reading the story when it was posted a ways back on the blog.

    What collective, deluded, vain fantasy they have created for themselves.


  213. on September 3, 2007 at 10:06 pm Way.of.the.Slow.Man

    216 Purchasing
    #44: Is Asaf in prison yet?
    Is REB in prison yet?

    Great!! So what if …
    … the foof implodes and the state takes the Appall-o assets?
    What jobs could/would the hierarchy have to take to make it out here in food-for-the-moon land?
    Bob – porn movie fluffer
    Asef – white house spokesman
    ?? – ???


  214. Purchasing awakening (around) 216

    #44: Is Asaf in prison yet?
    Is REB in prison yet?

    No, but kinda getting there!

    ******************

    Would you mind adding a bit more gleeful drool to these presentations? It makes your expositions far more believable.

    Personal comment, Burton is crazy. I don’t mean “crazy wisdom” or “crazy like a fox,” I mean just plain crazy. Anyone still actively a student of the FoF is either stupid or crazy. Even so, these near hysterical enthusiasts that so obviously leap for sheer joy at the fact that the FoF finally appears to be falling apart don’t seem all that sane either. I can only suppose that laughing maniacs like ‘Purchasing awakening’ are abuse victims of Burton, hence the fanatical and zealous sense of ecstatic delight as the cult appears to decay. I wouldn’t be too much in a hurry to celebrate Bob and company’s demise; they could go down like the Berlin Wall or hang on to the bitter end like Castro.

    Purchasing awakening, keep the malicious gossip coming because you know we can’t resist it. Maybe set up a website and charge for the information? You are one noble character and courageous too.


  215. 219 Graduates

    I get the feeling that right now your main aim is to alienate as many people as possible. I could be missing something but it seems pretty self-destructive to me. I don’t see the efficacy of gaging one’s personal worth by pushing people away and eliciting dislike. It tends to take away credibility.


  216. Bruce (around) 220

    219 Graduates

    I get the feeling that right now your main aim is to alienate as many people as possible. I could be missing something but it seems pretty self-destructive to me. I don’t see the efficacy of gaging one’s personal worth by pushing people away and eliciting dislike. It tends to take away credibility.

    *********

    Thanks Bruce. I just can’t keep from punching back, which somehow is not always the wise thing to do.


  217. 221

    Thanks Greg.


  218. cheers!

    when feeling threatened the ‘natural response’ is to attack or flee… fight or flight, this is based on biological ‘mechanics’… the adrenal system is a major contributor to this type of behavior.

    I apologize for assailing you with another quote, especially since it’s something you already know, nevertheless…

    ” How can the world be in a grain of sand? How can infinity be in a second? These are mutually exclusive possibilities. It challenges your basic underlying understanding of what reality really is. And when you move past a physical understanding of reality and acknowledge a more spiritual foundation for what reality truly is, you begin to realize that we live in a world where 99 percent is pretend and 1 percent is real. What we’re striving for as human beings is that unmodulated experience, that unmitigated exposure to the 1 percent of reality.”

    dr. oz


  219. on September 3, 2007 at 11:31 pm Purchasing awakening

    Gotcha, Graduates!
    You predictable old fool !
    Yeah, we can see how cool you are and how advanced in your Work and totally detached – can’t dismiss one personal comment about Your Self without striking back like a mean old dog!
    Good work on your Inflated Self, dude.

    I wish you get this job at FOF, I am serious – they’ll take you if you apply. You’ll become famous like Asaf. May be you’ll even be declared to be on your 9th lifetime!

    And I’ll consider your wise advice about a website, to celebrate the victimhood, ecstatic drooling and hysterical gossip. I absolutely, maniacally, fanatically love gossip!

    Much Laugh,
    PA


  220. on September 3, 2007 at 11:49 pm Bistro Fundraiser

    On March 20, 1995, five members of the religious cult Aum Shinrikyo conducted chemical warfare on the Tokyo subway system using sarin, a poison gas. The following excerpt is from the book by Haruki Murakami titled: “Underground: The Tokyo Gas Attack and the Japanese Psyche”

    …………………………………………………………………

    Most of the defendants have lost all faith in Shoko Asahara as their guru. The leader they revered turned out to be nothing more than a false prophet, and they understand now how they were manipulated by his insane desires… Most of them refer now to their former leader simply as Asahara, dropping any honorific title. There’s even a hint of insult mixed in at times. I can’t believe these people sought to become involved in such a horrific, senseless act at the beginning. On the other hand, at a certain point in their lives they abandoned the world and sought a spiritual utopia in Aum Shinrikyo, something they do not repent or regret.

    This is apparent when they are asked in court to clarify details of Aum doctrine and they quite often say something like, “Well, this may be difficult for ordinary people to comprehend, but…” They still believe that they are at a higher spiritual level than “ordinary people” and have a sense of being specially chosen… “If only he [Shoko Asahara] hadn’t gone over the edge we would have been able to pursue our religious goals peacefully and correctly, without bothering anyone.” In other words, “The results were bad, and we regret them. However, the basic aims of Aum Shinrikyo are not flawed, and we don’t feel there’s any need to reject them outright.”

    This unwavering conviction in the “correctness of aims” is something I found not only in the Aum followers I interviewed, but even among those who have left and are now openly critical of the Aum organization. To all of them, I posed the same question, that is, whether they regretted having joined Aum. Almost everyone answered: “No, I have no regrets. I don’t think those years were wasted.” Why is that? The answer is simple — because in Aum they found a purity of purpose they could not find in ordinary society. Even if in the end it became something monstrous, the radiant, warm memory of the peace they originally found remains inside them and nothing else can easily replace it.

    In that sense, the Aum path is still open to them. I don’t mean that former members are likely to return to the fold. They are aware now that it is a very flawed and dangerous system, and agree that the years they passed in Aum were filled with contradictions and defects. At the same time I got the impression that, to a greater or lesser degree, there is still within them an Aum ideal — a utopian vision, a memory of light, imprinted deep inside them. If one day something that contains a similar light passed before their eyes (it needn’t be a religion) what is inside them now will be pulled in that direction. In this sense what is most dangerous for our society at the moment is not Aum Shinrikyo itself, but other “Aum-like” entities.

    After the Tokyo gas attack, society’s attention was drawn exclusively to Aum Shinrikyo. The question was asked over and over gain: “How could such elite, highly educated people believe in such a ridiculous, dangerous new religion?” Certainly it’s true that the Aum leadership was composed of elite people with distinguished academic credentials, so it’s little wonder that everyone was shocked to discover this…

    More or less all of us want answers to the reasons why we’re living on this earth, and why we die and disappear. We shouldn’t criticize a sincere attempt to find answers. Still, this is precisely the point where a kind of fatal mistake can be made. The layers of reality begin to be distorted. The place that was promised, you suddenly realize, has changed into something different from what you’re looking for. As Mark Strand puts it in his poem: “The mountains are not mountains anymore; the sun is not the sun.”

    In order that a second, and a third Ikuo Hayashi don’t crop up, it is critical for our society to stop and consider, in all their ramifications, the questions brought to the surface so tragically by the Tokyo gas attack. Most people have put this incident behind them. “That’s over and done with,” they say. “It was a major incident, but with the culprits all arrested it’s wrapped up and doesn’t have anything more to do with us.” However, we need to realize that most of the people who join cults are not abnormal; they’re not disadvantaged; they’re not eccentrics. They are the people who live average lives (and maybe from the outside, more than average lives), who live in my neighborhood. And in yours.

    Maybe they think about things a little too seriously. Perhaps there’s some pain they’re carrying around inside. They’re not good at making their feelings known to others and are somewhat troubled. They can’t find a suitable means to express themselves, and bounce back and forth between feelings of pride and inadequacy. That might very well be me. It might be you.
    …………………………………………………………………


  221. where was i? oh yes, maybe more to the point, again I apologize for the use of quotation marks — as opposed to ‘personal stories’ — and any sense engendered in you, dear reader, that i may be ‘beating a dead horse:’

    “Imagine – if you can – not having a conscience, none at all, no feelings of guilt or remorse no matter what you do, no limiting sense of concern for the well-being of strangers, friends, or even family members. Imagine no struggles with shame, not a single one in your whole life, no matter what kind of selfish, lazy, harmful, or immoral action you had taken.

    And pretend that the concept of responsibility is unknown to you, except as a burden others seem to accept without question, like gullible fools.

    Now add to this strange fantasy the ability to conceal from other people that your psychological makeup is radically different from theirs. Since everyone simply assumes that conscience is universal among human beings, hiding the fact that you are conscience-free is nearly effortless.

    You are not held back from any of your desires by guilt or shame, and you are never confronted by others for your cold-bloodedness. The ice water in your veins is so bizarre, so completely outside of their personal experience, that they seldom even guess at your condition.

    In other words, you are completely free of internal restraints, and your unhampered liberty to do just as you please, with no pangs of conscience, is conveniently invisible to the world.

    You can do anything at all, and still your strange advantage over the majority of people, who are kept in line by their consciences will most likely remain undiscovered. How will you live your life? What will you do with your huge and secret advantage, and with the corresponding handicap of other people (conscience)? The answer will depend largely on just what your desires happen to be…”


  222. on September 4, 2007 at 12:10 am Bistro Fundraiser

    ‘Ton, found a link to your passage… There’s more…

    http://www.cix.co.uk/~klockstone/spath.htm

    “This excerpt is from: ‘The Sociopath Next Door: The Ruthless vs. the Rest of Us’ by Martha Stout Ph.D. (Broadway Books, New York, 2005, ISBN 0-7679-1581-X). Martha Stout is a clinical instructor at Harvard Medical School and elaborates on the tales of ruthlessness in everyday life based on her 25 years of practice as a specialist in the treatment of psychological trauma survivors.”


  223. bistro, thanks for your support.


  224. on September 4, 2007 at 12:34 am Bistro Fundraiser

    “The Golden State”

    You are the lump in my throat,
    I am the aching in your heart,
    We are tangled, we are stolen,
    We are living where things are hidden…

    We are luck, we are fate,
    We are the feeling you get in the Golden State,
    We are love, we are hate,
    We are the feeling I get
    When you walk away, walk away.

    You are the dream in my nightmare,
    I am that falling sensation,
    You are my needles and pins,
    I am your hangover morning,
    We are tangled, we are stolen,
    We are living where things are hidden…

    We are the feeling I get when you walk away,
    Walk away, walk away…

    -John Doe and Cindy Wasserman
    from the recently released “A Year in the Wilderness”

    ………………………………………

    and an old song:

    …Every breath you take
    Every move you make
    Every bond you break
    Every step you take
    I’ll be watching you.

    Every single day
    Every word you say
    Every game you play
    Every night you stay
    I’ll be watching you….

    ……………………………..

    and one more old song…

    You consider me the young apprentice
    Caught between the scylla and charybidis
    Hypnotized by you if I should linger
    Staring at the ring around your finger

    I have only come here seeking knowledge
    Things they wouldnt teach me of in college
    I can see the destiny you sold
    Turned into a shining band of gold

    I’ll be wrapped around your finger
    I’ll be wrapped around your finger

    Mephistopheles is not your name
    But I know what you’re up to just the same
    I will listen hard to intuition
    And you will see it come to its fruition

    I’ll be wrapped around your finger
    I’ll be wrapped around your finger

    Devil and the deep blue sea behind me
    Vanish in the air you’ll never find me
    I will turn your flesh to alabaster
    Then you will find your servant is your master

    And you’ll be wrapped around my finger…


  225. on September 4, 2007 at 12:35 am Way.of.the.Slow.Man

    226 ‘ton
    I was thinking more — psychopathy …

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy
    The term is often used interchangeably with sociopathy and antisocial personality disorder…
    Some experts are working toward listing psychopathy as a unique disorder. However, only a minority of diagnosable psychopaths are violent offenders. The manipulative skills of some of the others are valued for providing audacious leadership. Some have argued that psychopathy is adaptive in a highly competitive environment, because it gets results for both the individual and the corporations they represent However, these individuals will often cause long-term harm, both to their co-workers and the organization as a whole, due their manipulative, deceitful, abusive, and often fraudulent behaviour.

    In current clinical use, psychopathy is most commonly diagnosed using the checklist devised by Emeritus Professor Robert Hare. He describes psychopaths as “intraspecies predators who use charm, manipulation, intimidation, and violence to control others and to satisfy their own selfish needs. Lacking in conscience and in feelings for others, they take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without guilt or remorse” “What is missing, in other words, are the very qualities that allow a human being to live in social harmony.”


  226. ya, slow man, thanks for the link. although i’m not an expert, i ‘venture to say’… psychopathy or some variant thereof, and the defense mechanisms around it, lie at the core of the fof.


  227. Hello ‘ton ~ What’s with not (again) stating the author of your quote? It gets silly enough in here at times to be going and turning ‘old faithful’ upside down so it erupts underground instead of above… waz up ‘ton? Did you not know that a person can Google any sentence of any paragraph and find it on the web?
    _____________________

    Hello Graduates ~

    You wrote ~

    “Personal comment, Burton is crazy.”

    Thanks Greg, now, after posting 505 articles on Res Ipsa Loquitur, reading thousands of accounts, I finally know the truth about Robert Burton, whew, what a relief; I might apply for Asaf’s old job just to verify though (all the while wearing my Titanium, double riveted, darth vader stealth ultra bullet proof weave strapped, voice command released, 45 rat trap power, tear-gas and automatic poison dart 360 degree whistle blowing to pierce the eardrums of migrating ‘boys’, Chasity belt).

    Greg, does that mean you don’t like rap too, cause it rhymes; it’s sorta close to poetry? Please say that you do kinda like Run DMC, LL Cool J and Kool Moo Dee, NWA… I mean at least Eminem?

    I know you boogie Greg, there’s no way in hell that you don’t ‘shake that thing’ every time you get us all rilled up.

    _____________________________________________

    “INS is now zooming in on FOF.”

    Purchasing Awakening 216

    Love, The Blog

    _____________________________________________

    :.)


  228. Scale and Relativity 2 x 4 cross cut Update
    __________________________________

    The next time the word ‘hate’ eeks out of one’s lips or gray matter and you really believe it, with all your heart, that’s it’s true, true, true… think of it supporting this little girl’s ‘real life’, the one her father’s looking forwards to (and I didn’t mean that to rhyme).


  229. uno, to quote you, if i may: “Did you not know that a person can Google any sentence of any paragraph and find it on the web?”

    of course i know that, but it’s not the point…. after the scoldings i’ve received here for not following certain ideas about protocol, i began to enclose the materials drawn from the web in parentheses. if you want more information, or are concerned with sources, you can google “any sentence of any paragraph and find it…” the question is whether or not the information is pertinent or of interest (?)

    if there are friends out there who know something about the law and think that i might be stepping out of bounds with the way i post, please let me know.

    thanks for your feed back


  230. Oh, Calton you lover boy you, I just thought it would be nice to include the source too, just in case your “pertinent or of interest (?)” info might be sought after in copious or moderate additional amounts later if the reader wished to read more from wherever it’s all arriving from. That’s all; and on the legal side, well, yes, actually you are infringing if you’d like to get technical about it (by not showing the source), but in a world of real issues, I doubt anyone but Howard Carter would ever have enough time or money to sue you for such Barney Rubble level tidy dity stuff like that (not that I am comparing you to BR, he’s just a metaphor for innocence here).

    :.)

    BTW, thank you for the letter yesterday, a little masculine heart warmth (no penis agenda attached) is welcome any time (well, almost anytime). I was born ‘near’ the East Coast, where are you anyways?


  231. uno, to quote you again, if i may,
    “Oh, Calton you lover boy you,”

    that sounds gay dude!

    i don’t know you, so maybe you’re not a dude?


  232. Good grief ‘ton… you’re too close to the “RB is the place to be stuff”… I was just poking a little fun at your ‘official-ness’ atmosphere rained upon me in your last post… So, as Freud would say “You heard what you wanted to hear.” not what I said…

    :.)

    It’s all good: and ‘no’ I am not gay, yet, I am not particularly sad either.


  233. uno,
    i know this didn’t start with postings #223 -226… whatever the case, i’ll quote from my post above: “when feeling threatened the ‘natural response’ is to attack or flee… fight or flight, this is based on biological ‘mechanics’… the adrenal system is a major contributor to this type of behavior.”

    check yourself dude!

    on a positive note, here is a song and i’ll include all the credits… cheers!

    Jethro Tull
    Warchild
    “Skating Away on the Thin Ice of the New Day”

    Meanwhile back in the Year One – when you belonged to no-one –
    You didn’t stand a chance son, if your pants were undone.
    ‘Cause you were bred for Humanity and sold to Society –
    One day you’ll wake up in the Present Day –
    A million generations removed from expectations
    Of being who you really want to be.

    Skating Away-ay! Skating Away-ay!
    Skating Away-ay on the Thin Ice of the New Day-ay-ay-ay-ay.
    Ay-ay-ay-ay!

    So as you push off from the shore, won’t you turn your head once more –
    And make your peace with everyone?
    For those who choose to stay, will live just one more day –
    To do the things they should have done.
    And as you cross the wilderness, spinning in your emptiness:
    You feel you have to pray.
    Looking for a sign that the Universal Mind(!)
    Has written you into the Passion Play.

    Skating Away-ay! Skating Away-ay!
    Skating Away-ay on the Thin Ice of the New Day-ay-ay-ay-ay.
    Ay-ay-ay-ay!

    And as you cross the Circle Line, well, the ice-wall creaks behind –
    You’re a rabbit on the run.

    And the silver splinters fly in the corner of your eye –
    Shining in the setting sun.
    Well, do you ever get the feeling that the Story’s too damn real and in
    the present tense?
    Or that everybody’s on the stage, and it seems like
    You’re the only person sitting in the audience?

    Skating Away-ay! Skating Away-ay!
    Skating Away-ay on the Thin Ice of the New Day-ay-ay-ay-ay.
    Ay-ay-ay-ay!

    Skating Away-ay!
    Skating Away-ay!
    Skating Away!

    good night to all you bloggers and lurkers
    love


  234. THE GAMES THE FELLOWSHIP OF FRIENDS PLAY
    _____________________________________

    Sometimes, Robert Burton, that 2000 pound bull that no one is paying attention to WAKES UP!

    Take care of that King of Hearts poker card, hope you don’t find the other half too soon, I am sure it’s enjoying the Israeli coast without you and your KY mandibles.


  235. PA 216.

    Thanks for keeping us up to date.

    Your suggestion to Graduates to take over Burton’s role had me laughing until I realised it kinda makes sense – he has the appropriate level of intolerant fanaticism and the ability to state fantasy as if it’s absolute fact.

    Keep ’em coming!

    cheers, RN


  236. uno,
    i’ll sing it once more just for you —

    “Skating Away on the Thin Ice of the New Day”

    Meanwhile back in the Year One – when you belonged to no-one –
    You didn’t stand a chance son, if your pants were undone.
    ‘Cause you were bred for Humanity and sold to Society –
    One day you’ll wake up in the Present Day –
    A million generations removed from expectations
    Of being who you really want to be.

    Skating Away-ay! Skating Away-ay!
    Skating Away-ay on the Thin Ice of the New Day-ay-ay-ay-ay.
    Ay-ay-ay-ay!

    So as you push off from the shore, won’t you turn your head once more –
    And make your peace with everyone?
    For those who choose to stay, will live just one more day –
    To do the things they should have done.
    And as you cross the wilderness, spinning in your emptiness:
    You feel you have to pray.
    Looking for a sign that the Universal Mind(!)
    Has written you into the Passion Play.

    Skating Away-ay! Skating Away-ay!
    Skating Away-ay on the Thin Ice of the New Day-ay-ay-ay-ay.
    Ay-ay-ay-ay!

    And as you cross the Circle Line, well, the ice-wall creaks behind –
    You’re a rabbit on the run.

    And the silver splinters fly in the corner of your eye –
    Shining in the setting sun.
    Well, do you ever get the feeling that the Story’s too damn real and in
    the present tense?
    Or that everybody’s on the stage, and it seems like
    You’re the only person sitting in the audience?

    Skating Away-ay! Skating Away-ay!
    Skating Away-ay on the Thin Ice of the New Day-ay-ay-ay-ay.
    Ay-ay-ay-ay!

    Skating Away-ay!
    Skating Away-ay!
    Skating Away!

    Jethro Tull
    Warchild


  237. on September 4, 2007 at 3:31 am More history needed?

    Dear Mole,

    Could you re-enter your mail about the amount of fellowship students who are still in the fellowship of friends and who have left. Do you also know from which centers/ How many from london and how many from isis etc?

    Thanks


  238. Uno–By my count your posts account for 37 of the 241 posts (before this one) in this section, or about 1 in 6.5. Since about a third of your posts are unusually long-winded, collectively they probably account for about a quarter of all the verbiage. Since there are more than six or seven people posting here, you’re getting kinda piggy, dontcha think?. Maybe you’d like to start your own blog–The Daily Uno, or something like that. (I know, I know, “No, thanks.”) Or, you could get a life. (I know, “No, thanks.”)


  239. #242 More history needed

    The number of students currently still on the school roster (current or less than 8 weeks in payments arrear) that is quoted by the council is about 1900 (+ or – 20), roughly 300 fewer than 6 months ago.

    I realized that “mole” quoted numbers that were significantly less than above (about 1500), but I do not believe that mole’s information is accurate. It is not possible to get the accurate number of students from propylaia, because it is not carefully updated and quite a few students do not belong to any center in particular. In the end, it all comes down to money and that is what the number quoted reflects.

    We shall see what mole says…


  240. Burning Man 2007

    Even without the festival, there’s something about the desert that speaks to me…all that vast space, sunlight, and night sky. There was an eclipse of the moon that Monday night we arrived in the Black Rock desert.

    By Friday afternoon, as our little group was hunkered down in our RV on the desert playa during one of several fierce, blinding sandstorms, something in my DNA began to stir. We could only see white out through the windshield of the rocking RV, yet over the howling winds drumming could still be heard coming from one of our neighbors.

    I remembered that I had brought my ski goggles and dug them out of my gear. Earlier that day a fellow burner gifted me dust masks for my two children and I, the good kind with two straps. Gifting others is an integral part of the Burning Man experience. So is dealing with the elements and ‘burning away all the madness and sadness’, as I told my kids. The resulting explosion of artistic creativity now blooming even in this barren desert, the sights, the positive vibe of the people, all easily make up for the instinctive discomforts….if you open up and give of yourself.

    So I suited up and stepped out into the storm…the winds gusting to 60 mph now…and it was like stepping into the belly of the beast…like whale riding.

    I walked into the white-out toward the sound of drumming, keenly aware of my breathing due to the confinement of the dust mask and goggles. The RV disappeared into the maelstrom of dust and sand as I walked away from it. Soon blurry apparitions began to materialize before me, and I was amazed to discover several burners out dancing on the playa to the drumming! I felt jolts of electricity down my sides. There were shrieks of joy coming from among the dancers, and I joined them.

    My body began whirling to the drumming, dancing like dust in the desert wind…my outstretched arms like wings…it felt like my body could be swooped up off the ground…and for an all too brief moment that lasted about an hour, time stood still…“I” did not exist anymore…it was dust to dust…my body suspended in the air by nothing but a fine thread of pure consciousness…

    …and held aloft by a feeling of gratitude.


  241. 243 ~

    Ah, the worm and that weird shiny pronged thing making it wiggle so in the water, what is that shinny thing?

    Oh, no thanks.


  242. Brain Police 243

    Actually Uno is another candidate for the Burton position (?!) at Isis. He’s got the ability to write/speak long-windedly about nothing in particular in a pseudo-spiritual/poetical way. And he has fans among those bloggers who confuse clever word play with profundity. Sounds ideal!


  243. Dear X-ray,
    I thought you were X-man and wanted to welcome you for coming back on this blog for I had hoped to see you long before. X-man’s posts were vital in my catapulting out of the fellowship back at the beginning of the blog.

    Couldn’t agree more with you on humor and I am sick (ill) without it as are hundreds of students at Isis and probably in centers too. This blog is helping clarify a great many things and redundant as we might be, a lot of leaves come out before the few little flowers in between.

    Don’t blame me if the humor extension of my being has been amputated after seventeen years of putting up with an “equality” in which Latins are looked down on and four years with Girard who was no different to me than Robert to his boys: much appreciated objects of pleasure for as long as we don’t have anything to say for our selves. When I said that to C. before I left Oregon House, he said, but that’s a horrible thing to say about your husband, and I said, yes, how do you think I feel.

    As time passes and the play goes on, it is clearer and clearer that after all, Girard Haven is Robert Burton’s best student and has learnt to use us all without a thought of remorse. They are both doing their best. What is the difference between a psycopath and a man who has split into two different people? To those that get angry at me and tell me he loved me, I say, love is not tied to the bed. When you love, love at home and in the street, in the city and beyond the nation, love where ever there can be no question that it is love.

    Bad as I feel I won’t say I regret it. It is not I who will ever regret having loved Girard, or the Fellowship. The love is still with me, even if they are gone. To those who tell me how badly I’ve betrayed him exposing him, I say, your devotion crystallizes him more deeply every single day. Your support of the Fellowship will not let Girard or Robert free themselves from themselves in this lifetime. Let them know themselves before they die. Free them from your blind devotion. Not wanting to know the facts will tie you down with them as much as knowing the facts and continuing your support.

    It’s a good thing that no matter how many times humor is amputated it grows back again, and self esteem…….. and love.

    Unoanimo, If you only knew how amazingly dedicated Girard is to holding his chaos together you would clearly see how easily he could have become what we thought he was. He is also the best man I know in so many ways. Probably both Robert and Girard had everything necessary to be what they made us believe they had, but they didn’t trust themselves enough. He never uses a stick because he doesn’t need one. If he falls he gets up again and continues walking. It is the only right place for his complete conviction that he does not need help from anyone or anything. If he had used half his will to love, he would have become the man he wanted to be, twenty years ago. But that is true about almost any one of us.

    X-ray, after being rejected by the Fellowship for seventeen years I cannot agree with anyone wishing to ban Graduates or Duncan from the blog no matter how pathetic you two can get. Haven’t we all at times? And I agree that your “getting back” at Graduates wasn’t sweet either. Measures, but not banning, even if the measure extended long. Complete banning is for the soul like the death sentence for the body and very few things merit such action against each other. It took me over a month to get over Unoanimo and Yesri? calling me crazy or hypocrite and intensified the lack of self esteem I was coming with, to a huge degree. People in the state we are in, need to be reaffirmed almost every day. Eventually humor will grow back again. Besides that I thank you all for your photographs. I didn’t even know I had lost the little humor I had, hadn’t laughed sincerely for so many years or had had an open conversation for over four years without it being questioned in the fellowship. Compassion is not about judging or feeling sorry for each other but letting each other be. If we don’t react so negatively to anyone’s negativity, we will slowly get over it. It is different with crime.

    Thank you for sharing.


  244. Uno, I celebrate you, and Brain Police and Rhino Neal and Yesri Baba and the whole lot of you. I don’t care how long your posts are, nor how short, how good or bad.
    Am I also a candidate because of my long posts? Is it time to pick on Unoanimo now? Good thing he seems to brush it off fairly quickly. Bravo Unoanimo!


  245. on September 4, 2007 at 7:15 am Old Fish In The Sea

    The Fear of Spiritual Death

    I have spoken to a number of students that have decided to stay in. All of them said that they questioned Robert, questioned the schools direction, but they were afraid that if they left that, being of an instinctive nature, they would soon descend into an instinctive biological existence.

    This is the primary fear. The fear of making the ultimate mistake. The fear of losing that spark of being. The fear of becoming lazy. The fear of mechanicality. The fear of never again reaching those golden moments and losing the being that we all worked so hard to attain. The fear that without constant pressure (third force), the lower self will take over. The fear of spiritual death.

    Now I am out, but the question remains, what now, what’s next? I speak a great deal about what I left because that is easier than speaking about where I am going. It is easier than facing the “I don’t know”. But somehow I feel certain that it was the right decision to step out into the unknown, out of the safe but painfully lacking cocoon. The cocoon that Robert created and I accepted, with walls of fear. The cocoon where we thought too much about ourselves and whether we were evolving and were afraid that we were not.

    Time is short. There is much to learn. So many simple experiences to have. So much to embrace. It is time to let go of fof programming, to let go of the self deprecation and the deception, time to step out into the world – a life person ready to thrive, well prepared, ready to love and transform whatever comes my way.

    It is time to clean the slate, holding what I know, but inviting presence in a new way – a way that is not so self indulgent, more free, more relaxed, certainly more loving, less judgemental and less afraid of what might happen if I don’t. It is time to make presence a love and not a duty.

    The season has come. It is time to move even if it means risking my soul. Time to be normal, time to be human. What an adventure! Pushed out on the earthy ground with all of the other caterpillars. It is happening. Thankfully there is a great deal of support and love and I am happy.


  246. Old Fish In The Sea (around) 250

    The Fear of Spiritual Death

    ***************

    In good men there is a refusal to behave in a repetitive fashion, always something unexpectedly creative has to be introduced. Such ingenuity keeps decent men alive while others gradually die on their feet. The war against the formatory apparatus is a permanent condition for those struggling for genuine life.

    People leaving the Fellowship have something that they may not realize is valuable, they have knowledge. There are people out there in the world desperate to know what some of us still know.

    http://www.geocities.com/higheremotion/informout.html


  247. Whalerider 245
    Welcome back dear friend, what a nice breath of fresh sandy desert air…


  248. Dear Old Fish in the Sea (250)
    Your words are deep, words that can really talk to the hearth.
    I think that your message is as a strong emotional support that I would like many friends who are still in pain (and “in”) could read …
    Thank you!!!

    P.S. I will translate it for our Italian blog …


  249. Rhino Neal 247
    “Actually Uno is another candidate for the Burton position (?!) at Isis. He’s got the ability to write/speak long-windedly about nothing in particular in a pseudo-spiritual/poetical way. And he has fans among those bloggers who confuse clever word play with profundity. Sounds ideal!”

    Just for the record, I find this comment to be unfair and to “indicate a certain emotional insensitivity”. You may think that what uno writes is too long, too complicated, too pretentious, too metaphoric, too whatever. I don’t care and whatever you think is fine with me. But where’s the similarity with Robert, who has a really hard time putting two sentences together? Robert doesn’t know how to write poetry or prose, all he can do is predate quotes from dead thinkers.

    I for one often find very interesting insights in what uno writes, and also a willingness to engage in dialogue, to step back when needed, to strive for communication. And I appreciate that most of his contributions here are the product of his own mind and carry a distinctive personal flavor.

    Should we discourage that? Are people here supposed to write only in a matter of fact, methodical, pseudo/intellectual style? What’s wrong with everyone using their own means of expression? Are you a literary critic to pass aesthetical judgment on his writings and otherwise why would you judge people who appreciate his musings? Now do I have to feel stupid for enjoying his clever word play?

    I strongly believe in pointing out to each what we perceive as BS and hurtful behaviour. But if you are trying to help uno to be more constructive you could be a bit more specific in your comment. Otherwise, as we used to say in the FoF, you are giving a feature-based photograph that only helps in relieving you of some private annoyance.

    I think one could show some tolerance, if not appreciation, towards someone who has made the effort to put together the massive Res Ipsa Loquitur. And who may also be one of the very few actively involved in taking effective legal action against the fellowship.

    Rhino, I hope you don’t take what I write as a personal attack, your post simply hit a nerve with me. I have my personal share of insecurity when posting my most “out there”, “flight of fancy” contributions, but I am convinced that to expose the products of one’s imagination to public scrutiny is an act of courage and freedom, and I don’t like to see anyone made to feel guilty for doing just that.

    Also, regarding the space taken by some people in the blog, I don’t think the solution is for those who do so to write less, but for the many silent voices to write more. They are more than welcome, and I’d love to take this opportunity to encourage them to do so.

    With love and anger,
    Laura

    Oh, BTW, I wonder what HE was smoking…
    http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=9-YZFAoHBgc


  250. Old Fish in the Sea (250)

    About the fear of leaving, my perspective now is that it’s a fundamental construct of cults. Pure and simple.

    We have learned to think this fear is natural, of ourselves and our own soul and being. Some might even call it “conscience”: the choice between right and wrong, holding onto a school or losing a school. In reality this particular FOF fear is artificial. If anything is feminine dominance, THIS fear is feminine dominance. It was “consciously” created and nurtured over time through Robert Burton’s words, specifically to keep us from leaving.

    I would ask those still-fearful ones what I asked myself. Did I join out of fear? Were “those golden moments” and “the being that we worked so hard to attain” the result of fear?

    Of course they weren’t. Those were beautiful experiences. Thought provoking, stimulating, life enhancing, joyful, loving. We were, in fact, unafraid. We dove in with all four feet to a noble, wacky experiment. We pushed ourselves and one another, and we tried to do it always with as much love as possible. We acted from conviction. It required courage, not fear.

    But little by little a darker side began to emerge in the FOF: dark predictions, unpleasant stories, little inconsistencies, little lies (or was it really “intentional insincerity”?), at times even small acts of inconspicuous cruelty. This dark side kept growing bigger and bigger but we couldn’t see it anymore. We had fallen too deeply in love with an apparition of beauty, a delusion.

    If our “inside” friends fear leaving for the reasons you mention, they might consider themselves lucky. Others have experienced a different brand of fear. The awful choice between degrading oneself by permitting and enduring unwanted sex with one’s “teacher,” or, to put it bluntly, being damned.

    Many did choose this latter option, but often not until AFTER they were compelled to degrade themselves. And yes, they were damned, in various ways. Damned to become outcasts, socially cut off, ignored. To lose their friends. To carry the memories, in some cases the nightmares, of that soft saccharine voice, the leering, the insatiability, the veiled threats, the loss of trust, of a certain unrecoverable innocence. To remember oneself as a victim, to have experienced the abuse and permanent damage of essence by a trusted mentor.

    Damaged machines. Damaged essence. Is this what a conscious teaching produces? No, of course not, say our fearful friends, but that’s just collateral damage. Friendly fire. Robert just being Robert. Besides, most of those young guys really wanted it, right? They “consented.” It was “consensual.” They knew what they were getting into…and if they didn’t, well, what’s a little personal misfortune now and then compared to the “higher right”: our beloved man #8 teacher, Great Influence C, and the greatest (maybe the only?) REAL school since Jesus Christ? Do people get hurt now and then? Sure why not. They just had “bad fate.” In awakening, luck is a factor too you know. Anyway, I am not responsible for their play. It’s not my problem. I don’t necessarily condone everything Robert does, but it’s not my place to criticize a conscious being.

    Besides, the real enemy is “in there” in your own lower self, your evil tarot-devil king of clubs and its treacherous sidekick, the seven of hearts. Oooooh, scary! And then there’s the moon, grinning up in the sky like a fat cat awaiting its supper…you. Much worse than fire and brimstone. How could anybody NOT be afraid? But good news! It was all a bad dream. You never left, and all can be saved. Nothing is lost yet. The i’s are not real. You’re still in and you never ever EVER have to leave. Just write another check. Your spiritual search has been re-validated. Like a driver’s license. You can cherish the memory of your golden moments for another month. Your nightmare is over.

    Or is it? Which is the dreamer and which is the dream? Maybe the real nightmare is where we have been taught to feel most comfortable. Out there in the real world they call this kind of nightmare a cult.

    Here is a more inspiring way to think about fear, from a man who knows a lot about how cults damage essence:

    “Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small doesn’t serve the world. There’s nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We are born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It’s not just in some of us, it’s in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.”

    (The above speech by Nelson Mandela was originally written by Marianne Williamson who is the author of other similar material.)

    With love,

    Joseph G


  251. Dear Laura,

    What you have said in defence of unoanimo is true, but it is also true that unoanimo has certainly dished out to others as much or more than what Rhino has done in return. Sometimes this has felt intimidating to me, the opposite of encouraging more people to contribute.

    I have five children and have learned that the one who provokes a fight is often not the one who gets in trouble.

    Warmly,

    Joseph G


  252. On the subject of people leaving, I think it will be very difficult to get accurate numbers. But I heard recently from a source that is likely to be fairly accurate that there are currently 1600 or so members. This implies that ~600 have left in the past year(s). I do not think the process has ended, either. Also, I have heard that very significant concessions are being made to people who ask, for example waiving teaching payments for 6 months, reducing them to ~150$/month, etc.


  253. 254 Laura.

    Thanks for your reply. I find the Uno situation a bit frustrating because when in the FoF I had many interesting conversations with him and respected his viewpoint and original style of expression. But I find his postings here unreadable because they’re so long and also because the wordplay acts as a smokescreen to the meaning so half the time I can’t discern what he’s trying to say. But I know he’s got useful points to make.

    I do my best to treat this blog with care and respect – it’s quite powerful. Last night a current student came banging on my door having read it for the first time and we spoke for a couple of hours about all the issues – his eyes were opened by the blog.

    Anyway, sorry if I offended you.

    regards, RN


  254. Around 45-50 students have left the Fellowship each month this year. This time last year the numbers were 25-30 per month. I have no idea how many are joining, but I do not know of any centers that are growing rapidly. The new centers in the near east are not retaining students.


  255. 257 David

    I know several students who recently stopped paying and will be out in three months. These days, when it’s seen that a student has stopped paying he/she gets a succession of phone calls offering progressively better deals, and finally free membership for a period of time. How times have changed!

    Behind the scenes, it appears that a many, many current students at Isis are having serious doubts about the FoF, at least that’s what I hear from my current student friends. Of course The Blog is a significant factor.


  256. on September 4, 2007 at 3:44 pm Purchasing awakening

    Hi Opus 1111 and More History,

    I am no Mole but I’ve got a pretty accurate info.

    The current # is 1607, in Isis there is 468, in London – 42.

    The 1900 number is nothing but propaganda by desperate council. They have to keep the numbers up to make it look good, like, nothing is happening.

    Last month only 3 (!) students joined worldwide, and about 50 have left.
    Let’s see if Mole got similar numbers.

    Hope this helps,
    PA


  257. When I first read this blog 8 months ago (after receiving an email from an fof member about its existence) I sat there reading the Sheik’s account of his prospective student meeting and thinking to myself; “this is very bad for the school”. I immediately called my center director in Los Angeles and said; “we need to do some damage control here……..”
    It took me 4 months to add up my experience in the FoF and realize that I had all the “tools” I needed to graduate.

    Look back at what you’ve learned and try to imagine what else you would need to obtain your aim (yes, that’s right, I said “imagine”). You’ve got it all. It’s time for everyone in the FoF to pack their bags and start practicing out here in the real world what you’ve been studying for so many years. Out here doesn’t mean leave your house or business. If you need to stay in OHouse then do so. You just don’t need the structure of a “school” anymore. Would you go to college for 30 years? You don’t need a teacher. You are there.

    Warm regards to all,
    Steve


  258. About numbers…

    PA and David may be right. I do not have a way to “independently” check numbers. It all comes down to who is counting the beans and whether they are truthful. It just does not quite “feel” like 600 have left in the last six months.


  259. Opus111 #262

    “It just does not quite “feel” like 600 have left in the last six months.”

    I know what you mean.

    I don’t think 600 left in the last 6 months… I think it is on the order of 1+ years.


  260. on September 4, 2007 at 6:23 pm Bistro Fundraiser

    About numbers…

    1) There’s plenty of incentive for RB and the FOF board to downplay the number of people leaving, and/or exaggerate the number of people remaining. Adjust anything they report by a considerable amount (as you would when reading reports about the ongoing cost of the Iraq War).

    2) Similar to 111’s comments, I haven’t heard anyone describe Isis as feeling abandoned due to a huge exodus of members. On the other hand, if (for example) people are given free passes to attend the ordinarily expensive receptions, dinners, and meetings, then it would be hard to see a difference. Also, more people than usual may be flocking to “the property” to get a feel for the situation.

    3) Propylaia should be a very reliable method to gauge the number of people in the FOF, unless there’s an underground network of people who don’t want to be contacted or listed. I’m not sure why someone wouldn’t want to be contacted or listed, especially when they’re paying that kind of money to participate.


  261. 264 Bistro fundraiser

    Remember that in order to use/register with propylaia, one needs an email address and there are a number of folks out there who do not, or do not care to have one.


  262. on September 4, 2007 at 6:37 pm Bistro Fundraiser

    Opus 111: Good point. Then add 100 people to propylaia… would be an interesting number.


  263. This Nisargadatta site is relatively new. I thought some of you might be interested.

    http://www.maharajnisargadatta.com/

    It includes the whole of, “I am that”. Check out also, talks with Ramana and , “I am that” – reorganised.

    Liberation is never of the person but always from the person – Nisargadatta


  264. Joseph G 255
    Another wonderful post and a wonderful quote.

    Joseph and Rhino, thanks for the answers, I get your points. I do not feel personally offended, that’s Uno’s business, more accurately I think I failed to resist the automatic sense of injustice that issued from my seven of hearts.

    I needed to point out that whatever your problem with Uno, comparing him with Robert doesn’t carry us very far. His intentions never really seem hurtful to me, and I don’t get the feeling that he is here looking for students. I do get that feeling sometimes when reading Graduates’ prose (sorry Graduates, I realize I have been picking on you, I do have a number of issues with things you’ve said and I hope to address them in a more coherent way in the near future).

    As you may have noticed, I do suffer from a form of creative logorrhea myself, and I know it can be a blessing and a curse. It’s hard to stay out of the game when inspiration hits. And what are the valid reasons to do that?

    I would like to encourage all of us here to try to be gentle with everyone’s light, why are we spending all this time trying to blow each other’s off… we have been for so long hiding our beauty in the dark, collecting mold and spiderwebs…

    Ok, now I am going to shut up for at least a few hours.


  265. To Joseph, Rhino, Brain Police etc

    Beginning to read the blog in July the first postings I met were Unoanimo’s.

    They were not journalistic, or intellectually fat… but somehow ‘truthful’… (Not ‘factual’ that’s something else; something narrower) It had been so long since I had heard a voice call with this force of conscience and gut.

    They were multi coloured, unpredictable, bawdy, absurd, shamelessly intuitive, intimate… they lashed out, and drifted in from unexpected directions… just like the Now does. And no they were not neat and concise and compressed… just like Now isn’t.

    Are our night dreams a waste of space? our passions, our heartfelt diatribes, our outrage at hypocrisy, our raw responses, the images which rise up and bat us out of our daily humdrum: the weeping clown with his tattooed smile, the white bottomed boy, the lily in the bog, the sudden feather… the egg, the jellyfish, our humour… our riotous laughter.

    I might read a post three or four times, it takes time to feel all the resonance… just as it does with much poetry and song and well… Art

    The postings are not spiteful, nor vindictive, although yes… sometimes unnerving… nothing to me that needs forgiving. And there’s magnanimity… an absolute willingness to walk on with those who have knocked against him.

    The voice appeals relentlessly to conscience, to the heart in us… it could only have arisen from a being adept at appealing to its own. And no amount of brawling and primness will stop that calling. (Thanks, but no thanks…)

    There’s very little quoting of great men, perhaps no proof is needed… no substantiation, when we speak with our own tongue.

    In fact I was disappointed when he quoted Bob Dylan, and would have preferred something from the man himself…


  266. 268 Laura
    I believe Rhino was suggestin Uno as a replacement for Asaf, not for Robert. By the “Burton job”, he meant the job as Burton’s sidekick, speechwriter and assistant. Rhino, did I read that right?


  267. xena,

    Yes, I think so.

    regards, RN

    PS Anna, I think we need to talk!


  268. Anna (around) 269

    To XXXXX, Rhino, Brain Police XXX

    Beginning to read the blog in July the first postings I met were Unoanimo’s.

    They were not journalistic, or intellectually fat… but somehow ‘truthful’… (Not ‘factual’ that’s something else; something narrower) It had been so long since I had heard a voice call with this force of conscience and gut.

    They were multi coloured, unpredictable, bawdy, absurd, shamelessly intuitive, intimate… they lashed out, and drifted in from unexpected directions… just like the Now does. And no they were not neat and concise and compressed… just like Now isn’t.

    ******************

    The lackluster always reveal their seething existence by berating those that can produce something they are incapable of, creativity. Creativity is the visible sign of higher emotion.


  269. on September 4, 2007 at 8:36 pm More history needed?

    Dear Gabriella F.

    Sweet energy for the Fish.

    Could you give us a count of how many students have left in Italie.
    The count of 1900 can not be accurate. 300 left the last 6 months, before that since november at least 70-90 and hardly anybody is joining, except for one person in London who rejoined…and maybe somewhere else….???

    I counted 70 in Isis, 3 in London, 8 in Amsterdam, France 2 persons…..any additions?

    Thanks


  270. Folks,

    About the numbers, many of us have attempted to figure out the real losses over the last 12 months, and my own estimate (based on word of mouth combined with examination of real data) corresponds to several others – that between 400 and 500 have left in the past year. This estimate is not offset by the very few new members over the same time period.
    Another interesting idea I heard was to create an updatable page where a list of recent ex-members can be posted, perhaps without full last names. This doesn’t serve the voluntarily ignorant, but rather the growing number of members that would simply like to know.


  271. Dear More history needed (# 273 for now)

    I warmly confirm my sweet energy for the Fish… Thanks to him/her, whoever he/she is.

    What I can tell about the subject of students leaving in Italy – reliably – is that from the Milan center (which has always been the bigger and “important” center in Italy), in the last 6-8 months, 12 students have left. Most of them were old students. May be, at this time, more have left that I do not know.
    Let us help who is leaving, if it is possible.


  272. Wanted to be sure to thank students for the recent information about the number of students still remaining for now in the Fellowship of Friends, and the outward flow. It will be interesting to follow – and I expect, and fully believe, that a tipping point has been reached.

    You could call this blog the symbol of the tipping point, but from the outside looking in – it senses more like the middle of the tipping point. Upon hearing that Robert had begun “teaching” again maybe three year ago, a friend remarked that something dramatic must have happened – as we both knew that Robert Burton would do about anything before leading meetings again. Whatever induced Robert Burton to begin “teaching” since he had stopped in about 1977 is likely the beginning of the tipping point.

    Because, in a certain way, and this is a strange thing to write – Robert Burton although superficially a good teacher, is in reality – not a good teacher. At another post, I may write up an account of a hilarious prospective student meeting that I once saw him lead (with the single prospective student almost literally running away out of the door); and of Robert teaching a meeting in a tiny center – absurdist. He did have a way with the energy of big meetings – but when you went back and read his angles, they were strangely flat and reductive.

    Plus, at a certain point in the late 1970s, Robert Burton stopped feigning the responsibility of a teacher, and with a Wal-Mart like impulse, began to essentially outsource any teaching responsibility to his jumped-up idea of C-Influence. Kind of like the old saying, “God cures, but the doctor takes the money.” Now, Robert Burton no longer had to take responsibility for his actions and decisions as a teacher in regard to individual students – it was all C-Influence. In the process he redefined the act of “teaching” with minimalist duties for himself. In passing, might I add that the 30 work Is and the Sequence have seemed to me to be other examples of this Wal-Mart like impulse – crude non-personalized tools that require little by way of teaching. Even in 4th Way terms, how long before “the machine” makes simplistic words or phrases (or a mantra) fully mechanical?

    In any case, for me, the symbolic and essentially actual end of Robert’s active teaching period back then was the New York Meeting in about 1977. New York was the unofficial hub of the East Coast (U.S.) teaching centers that had started in two waves beginning in late 1975 into 1976 (although some might argue that for a while the hub was the Washington D.C. center). New York was part of the second wave to my memory, but had grown very quickly.

    There was a big gathering of East Coast (and southern) center U.S. students in New York – and it is hard to overstate the energy and tension that attended the sense of THE Meeting that weekend. Some of the students had come from up-to or more-than 1,000 miles away for this. The energy and expectation of the relatively new students (and us “older” students of maybe 24 months duration) was just so powerful and palpable. Robert led the meeting, as he did all of the weekly northern California meetings then – and seemed OK although maybe a little off – for perhaps the first 15 minutes (or less?). But, maybe say a quarter of the way through the meeting, Robert stood up and kind of nodded to Miles who was sitting next to him AND who seemed bewildered for a moment – but who then understood that he (Miles) was to continue leading the meeting, and did what seemed to me a remarkable job of it. By the way, this had never happened (to my memory) before this. Anmway, Robert walked off and (strangely) sat during the remainder of the meeting at the top of the stairs of the NY teaching house. Most of us could just see his legs.
    (kind of funny in 30 year hindsight).

    After the end of the meeting the tension had been released and energies were running high. A group of us had been invited to dine with Robert at Pappagallo’s restaurant (the NY teaching house was on Long Island at the time). While we were waiting to be seated, Robert took Miles off a few feet and berated him publicly for giving an angle during the meeting to the effect (about features) that “power proposes; willfulness opposes” – calling the angle extraordinarily formatory – not a simple rebuke but lasting a number of sentences – and given in a somewhat savage manner.

    At the time, to me, this public rebuke seemed churlish and plain wrong to offer to Miles, who had just done an admirable job of the meeting (which seemed like relatively few of us could have done). Even then, I had the sense that Robert was trying to re-establish any possible dominance that he may have lost by possibly seeming unequal to the task of leading the meeting (which idea hadn’t occurred to at least me, until then).

    In any case, there may have been a few meetings that Robert Burton led after that, but not many, if any. He just stopped leading meetings.

    The online video snippets of Robert in “recent” teaching mode (in which he appears to me to be somewhat sedated?) have been interesting and good reminders of how bad and essentially clunky his so-called teaching style really is, and was.

    Others may have different memories of that event – or thoughts about when these periods in the Fellowship of Friends history started or ended (symbolic or actual).


  273. I’d like to add my thoughts to Laura’s in post #268 in which she urges us all to “try to be more gentle with each other’s light” insteading of “spending all this time trying to blow each other’s (lights) out”.

    It often pains me to see the posters of this blog viciously attacking each other. Just about all of us are former members of the FOF, and as such, we share a common experience and even a special bond of sorts, even though we may have been in at different times and never even known each other.

    Of course there are many differences among us. Some are still devout 4th wayers, others are into non-duality, or something else now. Some tend toward irreverance and what might be considered consider vulgarity, others are more inclined toward expressing themselves in a refined way. That’s fine. To have it otherwise would be too much like the god-awful conformity of the Fellowship from which we all escaped.

    I’m certainly not trying to supress free speech but can we just cut each other a little slack every now and then? And I just wish that we could keep the blog focused more on pointing out what’s wrong with the FOF instead of on venting all these personal animosities, or having those kind of arguments that basically boil down to “I have the truth and you don’t”.

    I understand that people have their deeply held convictions and they want to hold on to them and defend them. I guess that is okay and even necessary to an extent. But haven’t we learned anything from our experience in the FOF about insisting that we’re always right and anybody who disagrees with us is absolutely, unequivocally wrong? It seems to me that acknowledging a bit of doubt within oneself is a lot more beneficial than trying to convince oneself that one must be right and that one has no doubts.

    Usually people that are really secure about what they know don’t feel such an imperative to shove their truths down others’ throats or berate those who don’t share their point of view.

    Are there times when somebody is so obviously out of line with their comments that they deserve to be slammed? I guess so. But might I suggest that we at least try to “slam” each other with the knowledge that our convictions and perceptions are subject to change over time, and the very person we’re slamming today may be someone we will be agreeing with and defending tomorrow. Could we try to hold on to the spirit of that as we communicate with each other? Just a thought.

    I realize I am just one voice among hundreds, and I’m certainly not ‘the decider’. But I just want to say that it is my sincere hope that the main purposes of this blog will be to expose the fraudulence and malfeasance within the Fellowship, help those that are trapped in it to escape, and help those who have escaped it to deal with the pain and weirdness of their experience. I hope I can persuade you, my fellow bloggers, that these are worthwhile goals and should be the primary focus of our efforts. Let’s not let ourselves get bogged down too much with petty infighting and other peripheral stuff.

    Best wishes and love to all of you.


  274. Incident with Asaf is a beginning of the second and the last phase of
    loosening the structure of FOF. Next phase will be a complete collapse.

    Burton is not only being stripped of clients now, but it seems that the very
    method of making money is being taken away from him. Asaf’s “shock” is not
    just another warning by gods, it is a direct smashing hit – since Asaf makes
    most of RB’s money.

    A “smart move” by RB to attempt to bridge an interval with Ouspensky and
    Gourjieff will look at least strange after all previous condescending
    remarks towards them.
    Such phrases as “O. And G. didn’t have a school and weren’t given Keys”, or
    “Only lower self and King of Clubs would insist now on continuing with G.
    and O.” – would be hard to forget and simply dismiss.
    RB is incapable of putting an intelligent phrase together without Asaf’s
    assistance, so without him he will not be able to teach, and this will
    dramatically and negatively affect his income.

    The most frightful thing that scares Robert even more than income issues is
    that with loss of Asaf he loses his cherished dream to enter history as a
    Conscious Teacher. The desire to be remembered by posterity as a Great
    Esoteric teacher who came up with a Great teaching was feeding his vanity
    and greed.
    Now it may be too late to start “raising” another devoted accomplice who’ll
    continue his teaching, RB simply may not have another 5 years to spare for
    this.
    Burton is a master of card shuffling, combinations and changes. But this
    time the Great Charlatan is powerless, since he fell into his own deep pit.

    Also, Asaf finally has an opportunity to personally practice the Sequence,
    starting with a new 31st work I – “OOPS”…

    I love you too Elena!


  275. 216 PA: “So… in his desperation he called back good old Ouspensky and Gourjieff – whom he so firmly dismissed in 2005.”

    Can you, or anyone else out there, say more about this? It’s intriguing to hear that G and O have been reinstated by Burton.


  276. 478 unoanimo

    Anna (462) ~

    Reading this post, I sense that there’s something in you that’s moved beyond the brave, into solace-necessity, into a sort of self rotor tiller redemption, yet, quiet, no attention-getting sparks as you till the garden at night, simply, labor to bring the earth-spirit you wear to another sort of plant-able stage… Whatever are your seeds, may Hafiz’s & your tears bring them to unfurling upon the breezes.

    _______________________________

    269 Anna

    Beginning to read the blog in July the first postings I met were Unoanimo’s.

    They were not journalistic, or intellectually fat… but somehow ‘truthful’… (Not ‘factual’ that’s something else; something narrower) It had been so long since I had heard a voice call with this force of conscience and gut.

    They were multi coloured, unpredictable, bawdy, absurd, shamelessly intuitive, intimate… they lashed out, and drifted in from unexpected directions… just like the Now does. And no they were not neat and concise and compressed… just like Now isn’t.

    Are our night dreams a waste of space? our passions, our heartfelt diatribes, our outrage at hypocrisy, our raw responses, the images which rise up and bat us out of our daily humdrum: the weeping clown with his tattooed smile, the white bottomed boy, the lily in the bog, the sudden feather… the egg, the jellyfish, our humour… our riotous laughter.

    I might read a post three or four times, it takes time to feel all the resonance… just as it does with much poetry and song and well… Art
    ______________________________

    Hi Anna and unoanimo,

    It’s true that you both write beautifully, as evidenced above. It is also at least possible that what I have observed about unoanimo’s occasionally domineering interactions with other bloggers is true as well. We are all subjective. We each have our blind spots and our unique slant on the truth. Mostly it depends on where we are viewing it from and how hard it is slapping us around personally. Meanwhile, understandably I think, anything that smells like psychological bullying or proselytizing will tend to rub some the wrong way here…even if it’s done with poetry and song. Far too long we remained silent in the face of a similarly zealous stench in the FOF, often with Givenchy cologne as a backdrop. One is less likely to be intimidated by mere elegant words anymore. I doubt either of you would want it any other way. I value who you are and that you are, sincerely.

    David B – You may not remember that one way the FOF ensured conformity was to stifle and/or cover up conflict. Conflict is a fact of life. If there were no conflict there would be no blog. Too boring. The key is maintaining respect, not staying quiet. This mostly requires focusing on the issues instead of the person. What’s written, instead of what it says about whoever wrote it. At least that’s my opinion. That said, I do undertand your perspective and mostly agree with it. Hopefully you have not found my own posts to be overly vicious. I am open to your direct, personal response.

    With love,

    Joseph G


  277. 277 David B
    I agree with you completely. Thank you for articulating it so well.


  278. on September 5, 2007 at 12:37 am wake up little suzy wake up

    I certainly agree with David B and Xena. I think personal issues and arguments belong somewhere else. I thought this site was to help others who are either leaving, thinking of leaving or coping with staying and attempting to come to terms with their personal trials in doing so. I have to say the regular onslaught of who ‘gets it’ better is not really something I want to have anything to do with. And being civil to each other is the least we can do. I find it just plain silly to continue this intellectual diarrhea that’s been going on lately.


  279. From Nisargadatta, I Am That, The True Guru:

    Q: Is it right to change Gurus?

    M: Why not change? Gurus are like milestones. It is natural to move on from one to another. Each tells you the direction and the distance, while the ‘sadguru’, the eternal Guru, is the road itself. Once you realize that the road is the goal and that you are always on the road, not to reach a goal, but to enjoy its beauty and its wisdom, life ceases to be a task and becomes natural and simple, in itself an ecstasy.

    Hope this quote helps those of us who still cling to Robert Burton as the necessary intermediary between our Self and Higher Forces.


  280. on September 5, 2007 at 1:28 am Old Fish In The Sea

    The Bond

    There is something that holds us together. The bond is palpable, and survives incredible denying force. It can be stretched. It can reach over walls and transcend different ideologies, habits, strengths and weaknesses. It survies spearation of time and space with 100% resiliancey. I saw a former student on the weekend that left 10 years ago and it was as though we had never been away from each other for even a moment.

    It survives inspite of, not because of RB. We feel it when we come together. I feel it more now, being out, than I did while I was in. It does better when I let go of trying to be a good student.

    It keeps the blog going. It prompts us, despite our independent natures and our different culturual backgrounds, to seek each other out. It allows us to forgive each other. It makes us curious about each other, our experiences, our successes and our failures. It is a love developed over time between a group of people seeking together a better way of living. It is developed out of our suffering and our failures and yes our happinesses and successes as well.

    The incredients for bonding were in us long before we joined. The bond will be with us long after the desolution of the Fellowship, long after Robert’s death. We do not have to be together to feel it. Despite Robert, it passes over the line that separates in from out.

    It is not that we are special. We are not. Others that have never touched the FOF have it too, and we are getting better at bringing it forth both within them and in ourselves. Each human encounter is an opportunity to bring the varieties of human essence to the surface. It requires a few secret incredients. It requires letting go of our initial reactions, opinions and judgements. It requires gving our attention. It does best in a respectful and loving environment. It helps to be curious. Honesty and unpretentiousness nourish it. It flourishes with a little encouragement.

    It was not Robert that held us together. Nor was it the beautiful gardens, the Lincoln Lodge, Apollo D’Oro or the fear of spiritual death. It was not even the 4th way although all contributed. Rather our love existed before we joined. It created these things and it is guaranteed that our love will out-survive the Fellowship.


  281. #247 RN

    I have held my fingers up to this point because there is no way of knowing from what you write where you are. This post is revealing.
    Though clever word tricks are part of his trade and he appears in his voluminous posts to traverse a wide dimension of experience, sometimes banal, there is no one who has even approached expressing the experience of the landscape of the soul as mr. uno.
    Either you are not paying enough attention or you ain’t there yet.
    Pretty much what has been communicated by you is to go out to some field and find a cow to emulate.


  282. Post #284, Old Fish in the Sea:

    Thanks, Old Fish, for these kind and true words!


  283. #250 Old Fish in the Sea

    Ironically, it is staying in the fof where that fear should be real.

    You cannot stay there and make the world your own. There is a deeper comfort, a deeper laziness that lives in staying. It is only by leaving and tearing it all down and re-making it anew that it is made real in oneself. That’s the law.


  284. I’m a bit ‘out of the loop’ these days, and would appreciate more information about Asaf’s most recent play. Is he stranded abroad? If so, for how long?

    Thanks.


  285. on September 5, 2007 at 1:48 am Bistro Fundraiser

    Dear Old Fish in the Sea: One of the most beautiful posts that I’ve seen here. Nothing to add right now, except thank you.


  286. ________________

    deleted at the author’s request


  287. Old Fish In The Sea 284.

    Nice post. There’s no doubt that very strong bonds were formed among us by our experiences in the FoF. It’s paradoxical that it’s such a sick organisation at heart.

    When I left the FoF it felt so wonderful to lose that deeply ingrained, barely perceived sense of superiority over ‘life people’ and to start to relate to normal people in an ordinary way, to see that deep connections could be forged there too.

    However, somewhat to my surprise I have to confess that a year later I still spend a lot of time with students and ex-students. Those friendships are deepened by the removal of the FoF’s artificial support. We find we have a lot more in common than the Sequence!

    I guess this is why the blog is such fun too, if a bit wild sometimes.

    cheers, RN


  288. 285 Yesri Baba: “Pretty much what has been communicated by you is to go out to some field and find a cow to emulate.”

    Not a bad idea!

    thanks, RN


  289. on September 5, 2007 at 3:14 am Way.of.the.Slow.Man

    284 Old Fish… (but not stale yet)
    Well said.

    This blog is a major aspect of the fellowship of friends.
    The FOF is a diseased, dying organism, a Fellowship of Fiends

    Students who leave the FOF:
    – do not leave the school
    – they are not ex-students
    – have not lost possibilities
    unless they give it up in their hearts.

    When I left 20+yrs ago I did not have the support structure nor the rich circle of friends currently available.
    What a rich, wonderful experience this is.


  290. The glass eyes rolled in the sandbox, dreaming of emulating their ancestors, but when sand crystallizes, who knows what abominations will emerge? In the corner by the virgin boy’s reliquary, the vinyl stirred. A corner rose and bent painfully in the watery air. A rodent appeared! Rodent Barton? The reliquary was remarkably realistic. Rodent lips were quivering – but where is Half Arse? “Without him I cannot squeak,” RB lamented. “And with him you cannot squeak, for you do not exist”, the vinyl replied, croaking rhythmically as it hitched its suspenders to the only available Kraftwerk puppet simulation, parped its horn, thought fleetingly of Cat Power but decided against it, and drove to Berkeley for the Duncan Shockley performance.


  291. Dear all,
    It is interesting to see the Sheik’s blog almost exactly reflecting our culture.
    Well, of course! Recent posts have strongly shown how this is true regarding masculine and feminine forces at play It seems to me that as we swim around this (strongly) patriarchal flavored cultural soup, we have had little opportunity to study and understand the feminine principles and aspect of the female divine.

    For example, in the famous enneagram, the flow of the psychological principle (‘inside’ the temporal sequence) is taken for granted. Almost every enneagram shows a flow from 1 to 4 to 2 to 8 to 5 to 7 and back to 1. I suggest to you that this is only one possibility of three. If one rotated the whole ‘star’ 120 degrees (clockwise), the flow between the numerical stations would be quite different. Another 120 degrees, different again. I’m going to call the first, familiar sequence, the male psychological sequence, the second the female psychological sequence (1 to 4 to 7 to 5 to 2 to 8 and back to 1), and leave the third a mystery.

    The reason for presenting this is so we can deal with subjects like prayer and grace, the nature of help, nurture and kindness. How we can start to understand the female divine. How regeneration and healing occur. I’m just passing on some concepts that Alan C., my wife and I explored in our own little ‘school’ after we left the FoF. I know very little, but I think that we might be able to continue on together. I think it is time to step outside the patriarchal mindset and see what is under our very noses. Maybe we can come to understand what is really behind ‘feminine dominance’, how it is misunderstood, and most importantly, misused (especially by the FoF and Robert Burton). Maybe we can come to understand the psychological poverty of most dominant ‘civilizations’ (and accompanying religions) operating as if only the male principle existed, for the last five thousand years or more. Maybe we can come to understand that the female principle cannot be ‘suppressed’, that only the outer form can be temporarily disguised, and that our spiritual health and even physical health depends on allowing the female to come to balance with the male in ourselves. And just in time, the Law of the Pendulum (or Law of Cycles) requires something equal and opposite to compensate energetically to provide balance in all Worlds. Luckily for masculine excess, the female divine knows how to compensate. The solution is not necessarily dressed in fluffy, forgiving pink, either; the Law of Natural Consequences still operates. The excesses still have to mitigated and neutralized before we can come in for the landing, so to speak.

    I think this is a case where a picture or diagram is worth a thousand words. I have drawn out the ‘regular’ enneagram with the male sequence, another with the female sequence, and one with both combined. I want to initiate a conversation about the whole subject of the female principle, and why it is so hard to understand it, even for females.

    I have attached a file in Microsoft Word to a forum called “The Enneagram and the Female Psychological Sequence” that I have started in the What Is the Work? site. It contains some ‘blank’ enneagrams (so folks don’t have to re-draw them all the time), and some samples of practical ones I’ve worked on. If there is interest, there are plenty more. I invite anyone to provide comments, alterations, notes, and e-mail them back to me. I will incorporate them or add complete ones to make a kind of library, which I hope will be useful to us all.

    With love to all,
    Ames

    nancyames (at) accessbee (dot) com


  292. on September 5, 2007 at 4:47 am Way.of.the.Slow.Man

    292 Slow.man
    Clarification
    >> FOF is a diseased, dying organism, a Fellowship of Fiends

    I mean Fellowship of Fiends as the organization including the head-cheese and his aiders and abettors;
    not the poor souls — passengers on the ‘Titanic’, arranging the deck chairs– still clinging hopefully to the conscious-school mythos.


  293. Unoanimo 290
    You never disappoint.
    Touché!
    Bullseye!
    Encore!
    and all that other testosterone driven stuff.

    Speaking of testosterone…

    Graduates 210
    You obviously have a healthy dose of it. Us girls who like dem bad boyz know that the good always comes with the bad. A lot of what you say goes right to the point, and I appreciate that. A lot of it escapes me.

    If I recall correctly you were one of the sought after male beauties now writing on the blog… so I think that gives you special dispensation to rant. (Pardon me if I’m mistaken on that.)

    Ya know, I was married to Thomas E. (who probably arranged the sheets for you) for five years just after he left RB and Renaissance. He was a young man 32 years old who had dedicated practically all his twenties to RB and his whims. He was schooled in the art of hidden agendas, elitism and hubris. Thomas was the template for Dorian, Greyland, Colin, Peter Bishop and whoever else has been the immediate interface between RB and the outside world.

    I was the first person with whom Thomas broke the code of silence he’d agreed to with RB as part of the sex for evolution trade. As I write I can still picture his face when he admitted to me that he KNEW of RB’s behavior; and then the half hour later when it dawned on me that he was a participant. RAGE? RAGE! We’d been married less than a year. Honeymoon over? Oh yeah. …Double Honeymoon over. Lost faith in both school and husband in one fell swoop.

    I remember laying in bed with him the days that followed these revelations. I was afraid to touch him. It was as if resuming our normal rapport somehow condoned RB’s violation of our integrity. A very small moment… To touch or not to touch. To be a woman for this man, with this man, or not.
    We never talked about it. We just lay there and let the desire take over where conversation could not.

    However Thomas did talk about other stuff. He had a lot of opinions about the system, the school, the 4th way. Round and round he went trying to punch his way out of a paper bag figuring out how he went from reading The Psychology of Man’s Possible Evolution to the story of his own dissolution.

    As anyone who knew us will tell you, I gave him my best as a friend, student and wife. I helped him find and establish himself as an illustrator/artist and I imagine I also helped him get back some of whatever he’d lost due to his ordeal with RB.

    So, Greg, I can’t fault you for anything. I’m fed by a lot of what you say and also a lot of it seems like rage. I’m a mom now and have been for 18 years, most of it as a single mom. When you guys get into it here on the blog it reminds me of what we used to call roostering. … Kinda like kids with tremendous potential and bright futures momentarily blowing off steam at each other. I’m not stupid but sometimes I just can’t follow the argument because of all the rancor. Maybe you’re pressing my T.E. buttons.

    Anyway, during the 1980s… the whole decade, I was outspoken and consistently shut down by my fellowship of Fourth Way friends for asking the same darn questions driving this blog. So I appreciate those of you who take the time to sort out our collective mess and your own messes LIKE NONE OTHER! That is why I thank you all, all the time. Even you, Greg.

    love,
    Shelley


  294. Shelley M. (around) 296

    If I recall correctly you were one of the sought after male beauties now writing on the blog… so I think that gives you special dispensation to rant. (Pardon me if I’m mistaken on that.)

    That is why I thank you all, all the time. Even you, Greg.

    ************

    I’ve never been a beauty and the only time I ever met Burton was at a dinner with twelve other cult members.

    Thanks for including me in your thanks.


  295. tried posting this yesterday morning but it didn’t go through so apologies if it is out of sequence and off topic. for what it’s worth… here’s to second and third chances…

    josephg #255 — i found the gf site and this blog last week and at the risk of sounding overly dramatic, it has been a ‘life-altering experience’… mainly because of reflection on long-buried experiences, and contact with friends after almost 30 years, and ‘meeting’ new people at the blog. joseph, our times at ‘the ranch’ overlapped and I hope it doesn’t seem too general or facile to say, in certain respects we had “similar experiences” there. thank you for your voice, it resonates powerfully. you express eloquently, poignantly, pointedly through your writing what i and many others with “similar experiences” cannot.
    from my heart old friend, thank you for your heart and soul.

    laura # 254
    i really enjoy your writing.
    ya, I wonder what HE’s smoking… and where i can get some? (just kidding).

    to continue the dylan thread
    http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=g0ELgFGd2fs&mode=related&search=

    there is a lot
    to be angry about
    a lot to love

    (i hope that this doesn’t bring down the earlier constructive conversation concerning the remarkable uno…)
    uno # 237 you said: “You heard what you wanted to hear.”
    i suggest reflecting that statement back to yourself. thank you for making my previous point concerning the obstacles to clear communication. “through a scanner darkly we see…” and that ‘we’ is all of us. this is not intended to be a provocation so please don’t take it the wrong way…

    subtle mechanics of ‘features’ and ‘false-personality’ aside, there are the ‘gross’ biophysical mechanics of our ‘window-on-the world’ to consider… the adrenals, fight / flight were mentioned previously as ‘natural response’ to a perceived threat.

    ‘Even if all our senses are intact and our brain is functioning normally, we do not have direct access to the physical world. It may feel as if we have direct access, but this is an illusion created by our brain.’
    http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/reviewofbooks_article/3760/

    “It’s all good” as you put it, and thanks for what you’re doing.


  296. David B. #277:

    “But I just want to say that it is my sincere hope that the main purposes of this blog will be to expose the fraudulence and malfeasance within the Fellowship, help those that are trapped in it to escape, and help those who have escaped it to deal with the pain and weirdness of their experience. I hope I can persuade you, my fellow bloggers, that these are worthwhile goals and should be the primary focus of our efforts. Let’s not let ourselves get bogged down too much with petty infighting and other peripheral stuff.”

    Beautifully said. Thanks for reminding us.
    ______________________________________________

    Interesting that “C Influence” has given Asaf a “leave of absence” from the Fellowship. He was the cause of a long time, loyal student being given a leave of absence for closing his eyes during an event with Robert. Looks like Asaf gets a leave of absence for closing his eyes to INS.
    ______________________________________________

    Old Fish in the Sea # 284:

    Beautiful post. Thank you.


  297. #298:

    Second paragraph hould read:

    Interesting that “C Inluence” has given Asaf a “leave of absence” from Isis.


  298. 296 Shelley

    I was friends with Thomas Easley right at the time I joined the Fellowship, in 1981 in New Orleans. I don’t think he lived there very long, but I really liked him, and we kind of hit it off. He was very quiet and kind, with a sort of shy sadness in his eyes. Which makes sense now, but then, who knew? (I didn’t.) I wish we could have spoken honestly, but of course that was impossible.

    New Orleans at that time was a very cool center. I helped with the final restoration of a beautiful, big 3-story Victorian a few steps off St. Charles. Jessica Lee was a center director, as well as Thomas Hart. Then there was Thomas Easley, and another Thomas who was in medical school. A lot of Thomases. Also a guy with that Cajun accent that sounds like someone from Brooklyn — he worked at an oyster house — I think his name was Nicholas (?), but later he moved to Renaissance, where I’m pretty sure he worked at the guard house. There was also a young woman who seemed continually “in silence.” It quickly occurred to me that it was simply a way to avoid being “caught” in a feature or breaking a word exercise. Kind of hiding out in the silence. The first time I arrived at the teaching house, I just walked in the back door into the kitchen. She was standing there, and looked very surprised, then when she realized I was a student and not a burglar, she tried to communicate using a variety of hand gestures. I’d never come across anyone doing anything like this, so I was confused. She finally got exasperated and started talking. I could see it pained her to have to break her self-imposed silence. She kept the silence thing up, on and off, for months I believe, until finally someone told her “enough.”

    Also, I remember someone named Richard, from Texas. He was kind of tall and thin, with reddish-blond hair and light freckles. He was continually reading “Lives of the Painters.” He was the fundamentalist I’ve written about before — not a good person to meet right after you join. He had a field day with me, introducing me to the exercises, tasks and suggestions. I was a smoker, and showed up at the teaching house the first time in cut-off jeans, a t-shirt and sneakers. My car was filthy, and my only cassettes were rock and roll, jazz or strange experimental electronic music. The closest thing I had to classical was Stockhausen, or maybe Philip Glass’s “Einstein on the Beach.”

    Those were some of my best days in the school though — the first 3 weeks I was in a state of euphoria that was better than any drug (well, almost). Too bad it was all downhill from there.

    Ah, memories. Or, in honor of all the feminine talk recently, mammaries.


  299. It seems fairly clear that a great deal of the “state of indoctrination” in which I finally allowed myself to fall in was due to the high intensity in the rhythm of physical work. The attitude that making a lot of effort was good, going beyond one’s boundaries, beating up the king of clubs and all those ‘I’s so common in the Fellowship, seem to be one very significant aspect of letting one day after another go by without being able to sit down and experience one’s own presence and instead allow the Fellowship dogma and machinery to penetrate one.

    The students inside that Old Fish in the Sea mentions, who are afraid of leaving because of falling low in their instincts, are still running on the indoctrination. Even I am only just peeling and watching thick crusts of it falling off me every day.

    It is different for each one of us, but if those who left a long time ago could give me an idea of how long the process took for them to feel “out and well” took I would appreciate it.

    In my case, if it were only the Fellowship it would not be as intense but the Fellowship intertwined with the marriage with Girard and seeing one is as much part of the other, makes it particularly difficult, but I don’t think it is all that different with others for no matter what couple it is about, the outlook and determinations are much connected to the Fellowship programming.

    The students who are afraid of falling low in their instincts are not being able to observe how low in their instincts they are by being determined by the disguised comfort of the Fellowship to continue playing their role. It is “understandable” like one would understand a nazi officer in court saying he did what he did in the concentration camps because he was receiving orders. True, no one is ordered to manipulate young men to go to bed with Robert but everyone is asked to condescend or leave. True, no one is ordered to not talk in public about questionable issues but no one can do it without being asked to leave. The subtlety here is that students think they are free to choose because no one in particular asks them to do anything and yet the establishment itself does not allow them to do anything else than what they are supposed to do within the establishment. One only comes to accept that when one accepts the indoctrination.

    It would be interesting to look in detail at what is it that one is really loosing when leaving the Fellowship cult. Is it painful? Yes, the process has been painful in my case but as layers of things fall out I keep finding that what is being recovered is my self. That while I am no longer sitting trying to justify my existence with how much I remember myself or not, how much effort I make, money I give, support, attention to a community that is only willing to take the money and conviction, as all that falls off, there’s a little more of myself left behind, sitting quietly waiting for me to remember I exist. I without Girard or the Fellowship, without the dinners or concerts, the modeling, the consistent visit to the wardrobe to see what uniform would be appropriate for the next self remembering event. I, without students feeling they had to ask questions to prove they were working, angles to prove they participated, paying to hear a man tell them they were sleep, worthless when compared to Robert, escalating an unreachable ladder of lifetimes in which any complaint was the proof of their self worthlessness. I, without the costumes and the play of people pretending to live a life that they surrendered from the beginning…. We all did and started living the borrowed life of Robert Burton trimmed and decorated by Girard Haven and filled with flowers by the inner circle to hide the stink that it emanated.

    Those students have not even come close to seeing where they are who think they have something to loose by leaving but it is understandable. Before I left I specifically made the effort to visit the student next to Girard, and asked him to defend his teacher and he said, I can’t defend the undefendable but at the same time, very sure of himself, he told me, Robert will just sequence himself out of this blog. That’s what they all think, that they can keep sequencing themselves from indoctrination to indoctrination, running away from the simple common facts that their common sense has had to shrink over to bear the untolarable contradictions.

    How comfortable are the men still at Isis in a milieu in which men are dressed up like little girls with ribbons and modeled around in carpets of superiority? How comfortable are women still at Isis, playing their mother role to the perverted conscious being, probably too frustrated in the motherhood they had to give up twenty or thirty years ago.

    Stop fucking around with your lives and look at the stinking mess you’ve gotten into for what it is and have at least the decency to take off the silk wrapping and endure the beauty of your own sweet and humble presence for the rest of your lives without having to prove anything else but acknowledging the simple fact that we made a mistake. I’ll be happy to take my share of the mistake and remind you that it is alright to make mistakes once and a hundred times but not for ever and ever because you don’t have more than a lifetime to get yourself out of being bogged down lower than where you started. There’s more honor in recognizing the mistake than in the thirty five years of devotion that thousands of people have fed the Fellowship of Friends with. Maybe this lifetime wasn’t our turn but we’ll be much better off for the next one.

    I know the horrors that Girard Haven is willing to justify and the pain it would take to get him out of his own indoctrination but there’s no one amongst you who is as indoctrinated as he is. You know him so well that you turned your back on him when he even tried to love me. You showed how much you despise him in not supporting his sincere effort to love and he was unable to free himself from the lot of you which are crystallizing more deeply with that fact. Not one of you has given him a hand in the four years we’ve been together, you sick old mothers, you sick friends, you sick men. And yet, not one of you is as crystallized to not have a chance to taste compassion for your sad play and still stand.


  300. 301 Elena

    “It is different for each one of us, but if those who left a long time ago could give me an idea of how long the process took for them to feel “out and well” took I would appreciate it.”

    Close to 15 years for me. But before you get too overwhelmed by this fact, consider that it took me 12 years to get to the point you’re at right now. Your self-honesty is helping you move much more quickly than I did. I couldn’t even see there was a problem for over 10 years after I left. So hang in there!


  301. 301 Elena

    I was in for only seven years (1976-1984), and I have been out for 23, so my perspective will be different, but perhaps it will be helpful.

    I spent 3-4 months in simultaneous depression and elation. The depression was as I was coming to terms with having been lied to and deceived, that I had allowed myself to be brainwashed, the teacher was not a benevolent (or conscious) being, I had to adjust my picture of myself to include someone who could be brainwashed, and I had been dead wrong about so many things. This was probably the most difficult part.

    The elation was over having my life back. I felt like a kid turned loose in a toy store for about the same period of time that I was depressed. It was a real roller coaster!

    My husband and I had been living in our own place for a year when we left, and we had made a few friends outside the FoF. This helped immensely and those people were a lifeline, but it wasn’t the same. It was a few years before we began making close non-FoF friends. The exodus when Miles left brought a few people back into our lives, and that was wonderful.

    I spent many years telling myself that none of that time or money was wasted. It was probably 15 years before I could admit that, except for the friendships, I could probably have left after 2-3 years with what there was to be had. After about 3 years, I realized that the FoF teachings are incomplete (after exploring other ideas), but I still needed to hang onto the belief that 7 years was not excessive.

    After about 3-4 years, there were long periods when I hardly thought about the FoF experience except in passing — even when getting together with old FoF friends. It was all restimulated around 1994-1995 when Stella Wirk created a discussion list and the Troy Buzzbee situation became public knowledge. I had to chew on it a bit more then. It wasn’t that difficult by then, and brought reconnection with some old friends and a greater feeling of completion.

    Then there was another long period of hardly thinking about it, except to acknowledge that I might have stayed too long. By then 7 years was no longer such a big piece of my life, and admitting that wasn’t so difficult.

    I began reading the blog in early May and attended the Memorial Day gathering outside Nevada City. This time, the restimulation of all that old stuff has been mostly joyful. It has involved reconnecting with people and recognizing that I am and always have been part of a wonderful community that has nothing to do with current membership in the FoF.

    These long time frames may seem discouraging, but it may not be that way for you. People coming out now have support and access to information that we didn’t have. There was no internet and the shunning practice was in full effect. I’m sure this will make a huge difference as there is less need to process and resolve all this alone or with just 2 or 3 people who may or may not feel like talking about it when you do.

    It does get easier, and time does heal. Don’t isolate yourself, don’t blame yourself and do explore what else is out there. There is a lot of silliness, but there are also powerful pieces of a grand puzzle that no one teaching has all the answers for.

    Much love to you,
    Arisha


  302. Dear 2bits (#288, or thereabouts),
    Re. Asaf’s recent doings… For what it’s worth, at a party last weekend I spoke with some folks who made their break quite recently, and I’m assuming that they have good contacts. I hope I’m reporting their words, or the gist, correctly; no guarantees!

    They told me that Asaf indeed married A. P., the young daughter of present followers, here in the U.S., quite recently. They then traveled to Israel to meet with Asaf’s family. When trying to leave that country, the authorities looked he and A. up, and found he was already married to someone else. This apparently is a ‘marriage of convenience’ so he can obtain a “Green Card” (Alien Registration card, conferring most of the rights of citizenship on the recipient, for those not up with the details of U.S. immigration).

    My understanding is that the Israeli and U.S. authorities share quite a few details about travelers. The upshot is that he seems to have blown his chances with the Green Card, since one of the conditions of obtaining a Green Card through marriage is obviously that the marriage be legitimate. So he and A. are apparently setting up shop in Italy, where he will run the “Journey Forth by Day” octave, whatever that is, and the peons can continue to support him (and her) in the style to which he has become accustomed.

    I suppose his I.N.S. file now includes a false declaration of marriage, lying to the immigration judge, and bigamy. Both easily provable crimes, here or abroad. I’d also guess that A. herself and the parents of A. knew that he was committing bigamy, as did the FoF minister who married them, the guests at the reception if any, and a host of others, including good old Abraham Goldman himself. All accessories to actual crime, with the minister who married them and Abe actually criminals in their own right. Just a guess, of course. I’d also guess that other laws were broken. For example, the requirement for blood tests before the marriage, the registration of a false marriage in the county court, and so on. And I’d hazard that Italy doesn’t approve of bigamy, either.

    The other person attracting trouble would presumably be the bride in the ‘marriage of convenience’. I’m sure the I.N.S. are not going to be moved by her tears, or the professions of anyone involved that it is the wish of C–Influence, or the ‘conscious beings who did the cave drawings’, or whatever.

    Apparently Dorian has taken over the role of helping Burton formulate and articulate further deep thoughts in the meetings. And so the criminal saga continues…

    Ames


  303. Re: Ames’ post #307

    Thanks, Ames, for the update.


  304. 306 Was KathleenW

    “After about 3-4 years, there were long periods when I hardly thought about the FoF experience except in passing — even when getting together with old FoF friends. It was all restimulated around 1994-1995 when Stella Wirk created a discussion list and the Troy Buzzbee situation became public knowledge. I had to chew on it a bit more then. It wasn’t that difficult by then, and brought reconnection with some old friends and a greater feeling of completion.

    Then there was another long period of hardly thinking about it, except to acknowledge that I might have stayed too long. By then 7 years was no longer such a big piece of my life, and admitting that wasn’t so difficult.”

    I was also in about 7 years or so. And your experience above matches mine in many ways. Long periods of not thinking about the FOF, even well before I had processed much of the experience. For me, the big psychological blow-out occurred about 12 years after leaving. But there was some pretty major repression going on during that time, I think.

    307 Ames Gilbert

    “I’m sure the I.N.S. are not going to be moved by her tears, or the professions of anyone involved that it is the wish of C–Influence, or the ‘conscious beings who did the cave drawings’, or whatever.”

    LOL!


  305. Hi Ames,

    About your #307, I’d only add out of fairness that in my view the fraudulent first wife in question probably acted under the weight of significant pressure from above. People like her are simply another type of victim: brain-washed yes, blameless no, but all the same, exploited then dropped when convenient. Sometimes the aftershock from an experience like this is enough to open someone’s eyes to the cynical reality. If so she is lucky, and the INS is a blessing in disguise.

    On a personal note, I know this person and wish her well.

    Warmest greetings,

    Joseph G


  306. ton#300
    If you were wondering why this post had to go through moderation, it’s because it contained more than one link to a website in it.


  307. thanks xena, i will keep that in mind in the future… i learn something everytime i visit this site…


  308. on September 5, 2007 at 11:01 pm Purchasing awakening

    It is illegal for anyone to get married solely for the purpose of getting, or helping someone to get, permanent residence in the United States. There are stiff fines and possible jail terms for people who are convicted of this crime.
    The law pretty much speaks for itself on what happens to immigrants who commit marriage fraud. You can face prison, a fine or both:

    “Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both” (I.N.A. § 275(c), 8 U.S.C. § 1325(c)).

    The U.S. citizen or resident could also face criminal prosecution, including fines or imprisonment, depending on the facts of the case. They are most likely to be prosecuted for either criminal conspiracy (conspiring with the immigrant is enough; see U.S. v. Vickerage, 921 F.2d 143 (8th Cir. 1990)), or for establishing a “commercial enterprise” to get people green cards (see I.N.A. § 275(d), 8 U.S.C. § 1325(d)).

    I hope that none of this wouldn’t happen to E-ta, who is a sweet kind person and most likely was pressured by FOF authorities to illegally marry Asaf.


  309. Thank you Arisha and Innernaut. You help.

    Elisa, my eldest daughter, was just accepted for a master course in Shakespeare in the Drama School in London. They took her right after the audition and they’ll start on monday. She’s been working in theater but didn’t have a degree as an actress. I am the proudest mother!

    What is also very significant about Robert going back to Gurdjieff and Ouspensky at least in theory, is that it shows how much it was Asaf who was leading the pace of the teaching with Robert’s weird interventions. They are probably hoping Girard and the inner circle will pull it together again and not loose any more naive followers.


  310. definitely worth a listen – have to listen to all the words….if you dare.


  311. The last two daily card submissions did not get through smoothly: it is doubtless the earthly reflection of an imbalance in higher worlds. We must all bear the effects of great C influence in our lives and the only meaningful response is ‘gratitude, gratitude, gratitude’.
    Today Malcolm has seen fit to repost the last two Daily Cards.

    ———————————————————————-

    Robert likes his sex convenient and boys well organized

    Love Malcolm

    “My harem now has what it lacked,”
    Bob expansively cracked.
    “There are bunk beds for all
    Where the dears wait my call,
    Since the boys I ball must be stacked!”

    ————————————————————————–

    It feeds intellectual parts of centers to know boy’s penis sizes.

    Love Malcolm

    There once was a lad from Sydney
    Who could put it in up to Bob’s Kidney
    But a boy from Quebec
    Put it in up to his neck
    Now he had a big one, didn’t he!


  312. Correction:

    We must all bear the effects of great C influence in our lives ……………..

    should read

    We few lucky beggars must bear the effects of great C influence in our lives.


  313. Dear Blog-friends and fiends ( ;-),

    I would like to ask for some advice. Yes, that’s right! It’s about The Art of Leaving…

    In the near future, I’ll get “the call” that I’m six weeks behind in my teaching payments. Usually, that means that the Centre Director reports to the FoF Bookkeeper that ‘X’ has declared that he/she is no longer going to make teaching payments — and that’s that. Hasta la Vista, Baby!

    Most of you have had the jarring experience of leaving the Fellowship (in your respective eras), and have had time to reflect on the reverberations, both positive and negative, that ensued — both on a personal scale and on a larger one. What might you, in retrospect, have wished to do differently?

    My personal emphasis is on transformation and healing, not recrimination, negativity and payback. I’m neither planning to wreak any havoc or destruction, nor to write any searing letter to RB. I seek harmony, in and out. So, get lost, you Thunderdome types! :-))

    Over the last few weeks, I’ve mentioned to a number of not-so-close friends, and to some ex-student-friends, that I am thinking of leaving, but it’s basically a well-kept secret.

    So, shall I simply ‘disappear,’ or shall I try to explain myself to my closer circle of friends, with the hope that things may be taught and learned, by all parties? (Most of my close friends are ‘inner circle’ types, but still very dear to me, nevertheless.)

    I go over imaginary parting scenarios again and again, but can’t see any real value in trying to explain myself to those who will most likely have little sympathy for my decision to leave. Sure, I don’t want to endure the suffering of being shunned, but I am prepared for this eventuality.

    Just let sleeping dogs lie? How bizarre, in this context!

    One of the main reasons for this blog is to help jolt awake those current members who may see significant cracks in the FoF organization, but who need support in their efforts to develop a new and positive alternative… I certainly support this aim! But can I really help?

    Over the years, I have been privy to the parting statements of hundreds of students who have left. It was easy, then, to shirk off their explanations with a few convenient formulas and platitudes. I feel certain that these same formulas and platitudes will echo in my ears, and in my heart, as I depart… Ironical, isn’t it?

    Perhaps this perceived need for advice issues from my Queen of Hearts, simply wishing to be understood? Or, maybe it’s evidence of a cleaner and purer esoteric imperative to engage, share and teach? To save souls?

    So, how best to leave? With a bang or a whimper? I won’t have a chance to do it again. I think I see the play as it will happen, but still — I want to try to examine the possibilities more carefully.

    Thanks for sharing your insights…


  314. my2bits (around) 319

    So, how best to leave?

    *************

    Remembering yourself while avoiding all the many ‘I’s and attitudes of personality.


  315. 319 my2bits

    Good question!

    I decided to leave about a year ago after attending a couple of Adyashanti events, though it had been building up for years. I spent quite some time composing a letter to explain to friends why I was leaving. The actual composing process was useful as it helped to clarify my thoughts. Also, sending it out made the break feel more definite.

    I received several replies, both by phone and email. Some were along the lines of “Good luck, we’re on the same path, but I won’t be able to speak to you again”. Some said “Great, I’ll be joining you soon”. Actually the first call was from a recently ex student who said “Welcome to the real world!” It was a joyful moment.

    It may be, as you say, that most true believers completely buffer such a letter, but for some it may be helpful. A few people came up to me at parties in the last year who said my letter was helpful in encouraging them to leave; I hadn’t sent it to them but it had been passed around.

    Before all this I’d been talking it over with my closer friends, so it was no surprise to them. If possible, it’s very helpful to have a close friend or two to talk to while the process of leaving occurs. You say your close friends are inner circle types, and, yes, they will find this pretty much impossible to discuss meaningfully. But hopefully there are a few people around with whom you can talk sincerely.

    There may be huge amounts of energy released and all sorts of new and wonderful possibilities, so it’s not a time to be cautious.

    If I have any useful advice to give it would be to simply get out as quickly as you can. It’s very much like I imagine it would be to leave prison: wonderful!

    bon voyage! RN


  316. on September 6, 2007 at 2:51 am More history needed?

    319 sign up for the greater fellowship website and or sent an email to Ames and Nancy and you will be informed of many people who have left and can help you.
    For example call: ( check your directory)
    N and J er
    -r-c j-l-s-n
    B. W.
    The 6 who left in November plus Janna….see you directory.
    W.H and S.H
    Ch Gr
    D- Mc-b
    Y–l R
    R. P.
    L and S

    And many more…
    The help is around the corner.

    Good luck and time does the job

    There is no in or out, this is only a concept.


  317. I found it important to not just fade away, but to send an “official leaving letter” via email to as many students as I seemed friends. This was more for me than for the Fellowship. Before doing so, I spoke personally to those friends that I felt I wanted to speak to.

    My “leaving letter” was pretty short, something like “After 25 years, it’s now time for me to leave the Fellowship of Friends. I hope we re-connect in the future in whatever way is possible.” This left it open for them to respond or not, as they felt comfortable. I was actually quite surprised (and disappointed) at how few did respond at all. Only one responded with the “lower self” party line.

    Since then I have found that a couple of friends did shortly thereafter leave, spurred on by my leaving letter. This also surprised me.


  318. on September 6, 2007 at 2:56 am More history needed?

    Maybe the Sheik can give us a seperate page and people can start writing their initials and were they left and what month and year

    Thanks gabriella for your info regarding Milan 12 people left at least…since the last 6-8 months.


  319. my2bits (319)

    My advice to you is “don’t go quietly”. I know it may be awkward and uncomfortable, but if you really care about your friends who are still there, I think you should try to “plant the seeds” that will eventually lead to their getting out. Of course, none of them are going to immediately join you in your departure. But if you use your intelligence and intuition, you might do a lot of good for some people before you go. As you said, once you’re gone, you’re gone, and you probably won’t have the chance to speak with them again.

    When I left seven years ago I called a few of my closest friends (wish I had called more) to explain my decision to them. Rather than telling them “you’re in a cult, Robert is a predatory scumbag, etc.” I simply said that my head, my heart, and my gut were all telling me that Robert was a fraud and I couldn’t stay any longer. I hated to think that I would lose contact with them, and I hoped that they would ignore the ‘no contact’ exercise. Only two kept in touch. They left a couple of years after me. I like to think that I played some small part in helping them, but who knows.

    The others wished me well and made it clear that, henceforth, we would not be in communication. One of them was on the council at the time, I believe. Within the past year, he and several other of those friends have left. So remember, even your friends that are the ‘inner circle’ types may well be having little inklings of doubt and conscience, although they won’t admit it now.

    Another way to look at it is, “what do you have to lose?” What are they going to do to you if they don’t like what you say? Forget trying to preserve some kind of “harmony”. They may not want to hear what you have to say to them now, but one day they’ll probably thank you.

    Back when I left, they still had open meetings at the town hall. I wish now that I had had the courage to go in there and stand up and speak my mind before I left, just to get people talking if nothing else.

    Anyway, the main thing, as Rhino said in the post above, is just get the hell out of there and stop supporting Robert’s criminal activity.

    And, as Rhino’s friend said to him when he left: “Welcome to the real world!”


  320. on September 6, 2007 at 3:16 am Way.of.the.Slow.Man

    319 my2bits

    A lighter note– sometimes just let the feet speak.


    Also it is simple, but may not be easy.

    I just kind of crept away as I did not have any external support over 20+ years ago. I told the center directors I was leaving and did not go into details. I didn’t know about Just-Plain-Bob’s sex life until after I left.

    I called a few close friends and then did not hear from them until they left a year later. Although one couple swiftly came to visit and left shortly when they saw it was a ‘lost’ cause. They are still in the FOF.

    I admire the students who stood up and actively questioned the FOF direction and J-P-B’s predation. I wouldn’t go the same way now as I’ve grown by standing on my own feet. Then I felt a bit like I was failing, but I could no longer stay in the FOF.

    Leaving will take a while to digest. This blog is a wonderful digestief and is working on impacted FOF still in the lower colon of my memories.

    However and whenever you leave, the FOF experience is an integral part of you, kind of like your leg or someother body part. The experience can not just be denied or rejected without excising part of yourself. For me there was much good learned and experienced in the FOF years– mostly a kick start on a spiritual journey. Remembering that helps balance what drives you out to a re-birth.


  321. My2bits – I agree with David – please don’t leave quietly, especially if you feel like writing something to your friends. Exit letters are important, even if it appears that they now fall on deaf ears. It is not so! Even if they are buffered upon receipt, they may play their role later.
    I remember being really touched by Phillip Ro—ter’s exit letter, and it was not even addressed to me personally , it was passed to me much later.
    Something in it just touched my conscience, cut through the thick buffers, made me think, and played a certain role in my own departure (Thanks, Philip!)
    In my opinion it’s best to write from the heart, as sincerely as possible, just explain in plain simple words what do you feel and why you decided to leave. This seem to touch people much more than anger, blame, or victim’s attitude.
    I sent an exit letter to pretty much everyone I knew or cared about, not just close friends. I said to myself – I may never see these people again, so I might as well tell them what I feel and thank them for their friendship and good time I had with them.

    Best of luck to you, and welcome to the beautiful Real World.


  322. I checked out the link to the Nisargatta Maharaj link that someone recently posted. I found the following in the account written by Cathy Boucher:

    “Bombay has many beggars. We would see many children beggars when we took walks on Marine Drive. People would flaunt their deformity and make our western minds swoon. Some days I would be giving money to anyone who asked. The next day I would refuse everyone. No matter what I did, I didn’t feel comfortable. I was impressed with one young beggar who had a deformed lower leg. He would come up to our taxi as we were sitting in traffic and lift his leg and show us his deformity. We would keep running into him.After awhile, we would all be laughing, “You again!” One day in particular we ran into him in the area where Maharaj lived and then shortly afterwards in an another part of town. I was impressed that he was so mobile. That night I sat in my hotel room thinking about our beggar friend. He seemed bright and full of energy. I thought, I could give him all the money in the world but it would not be the same as bringing him to truth. After all, he lived in the same town as Maharaj. I talked to my friend Rick about this.After thinking about it some more, I decided I would invite my beggar to Satsang. I felt I could never really help the beggars of Bombay in a real way except in this fashion. I decided the next time I ran into him (and I knew I would!) that I would give him the address. The next day that happened. We laughed as usual, I think I gave him some money and a piece of paper with Maharaj’s address written on it. Then we left him and went off to Satsang. Satsang was full underway. Then somehow we came to the point of the condition of a lame man. I had not instigated the current topic of conversation, it was a complete coincidence, when there was a knock on the door. Then the announcement that there was a lame man at the door.With great effort, people were able to get my beggar up the steep ladder stairs to Maharaj’s loft. Once there, the beggar friend sat down. I remember he looked all around the room, blinking his eyes. It occurred to me at that moment that he had never been in a satsang kind of situation. I don’t think I considered the fact that he came with out any clue as to what awaited him, but I hadn’t given much of an explanation with the address. The dialog with Maharaj continued, however, I could see that Maharaj was much annoyed by the appearance of my beggar. After admitting that I was the one who had invited this man and being scowled at, I realized that I had made a faux pax. I guess inviting in local beggars was something that just wasn’t done and Maharaj made no effort to hide his annoyance. I became more upset because I had never had Maharaj annoyed with me and I had all these noble ideas that were shattered. The beggar just looked astonished. He was quiet. At the end of the session Maharaj said to my translator ” He is here just to feed his belly, give him twenty rupees!” Mr. Mullarpattan nodded his assent. We all got down from the loft and out on to the street. I stood quietly weeping. I went up to Mr. Mullarpattan who repeated what Maharaj had said to him. But Mr. Mullarpattan told me that when he went up to the beggar to give him the twenty rupees the beggar refused to take it! I thought, Wow! the beggar must have at least felt my love, even if he didn’t quite get everything else! Twenty rupees is nothing to sneeze at when you you are poor. I felt wrung out feeling Maharaj’s annoyment and my own ambivalant feelings about what I had done. Yet Mr. Mullarpattan was showering me with love and support and that let me feel that it was going to be all right! ”

    Does this sound like the compassionate action of an enlightened teacher?


  323. #20-250 Old Fish In The Sea – “The Fear of Spiritual Death”

    “I have spoken to a number of students that have decided to stay in. All of them said that they questioned Robert, questioned the schools direction, but they were afraid that if they left that, being of an instinctive nature, they would soon descend into an instinctive biological existence.”

    OK. First a story. When I joined the fof there were a series of word exercises. Basically, we were given words to avoid completely, as a kind of proof to ourselves that we are “many I’s” and it is difficult to remember our aims. The most difficult such word exercise was to completely avoid using the word “I”. It was initially a very effective way to increase a superficial level of awareness. We got proficient at using the word “it” as a complete substitute for “I”.

    (There are many funny stories about this. One such is that a group of us were driving to some large meeting and got pulled over by the police for some minor traffic infraction. The driver was so compelled to continue the word exercise in front of the other riders that he answered the cop’s questions using the absurd pronoun “it”. Things got really weird…)

    When this word exercise ended, we received a call at the outlying center. The student who took the call announced that the exercise had ended, and I remember telling several fof members that the exercise was over. Some students were adamant that there must be an error; that this exercise was so fundamental to the fof that the message was some kind of blasphemy. It was painfully difficult to re-incorporate the word “I” back into our vocabularies. It was much more difficult than continuing the exercise.

    One point of this story is that we developed an elaborate code of conduct that allowed fof members to quickly distinguish non-members. We also got really proficient at maintaining the then current set of exercises – whether or not we were remembering ourselves. We could always focus on compliance with the code of conduct; this was much easier and intellectually lazy compared to actually trying to be alive and awake.

    It was also easy to judge those dumb “life people” who were so indiscriminately using the word “I” all the time. Of course, they had no aim to maintain a word exercise. They might have been diligently keeping exercises unknown to us – they might have been earnestly remembering themselves but we wouldn’t know it. We might have actually met people on the path, but we couldn’t see them. We only looked for the code of conduct and the trappings that we recognized.

    The real journey is completely invisible. The guy who reports to me in the office next to me who is programming some payroll changes for the university looks pretty average to me. He doesn’t dress like the fof. He doesn’t talk like the fof. He grins and I see his teeth. He listens to all sorts of music. He looks pretty “instinctive” to me. But I don’t actually know his inner work, do I? And really – what’s the point of acting like we are working on ourselves? Let’s get on to actually being here now.


  324. 328 Xena: “Does this sound like the compassionate action of an enlightened teacher?”

    Maybe, maybe not. Clearly Cathy Boucher has her own slant on the story, and it resonates with you, Xena. She was impressed by the beggar for some reason and thought that Maharaj should help him in some spiritual way. She was upset when Maharaj instead offered him money. Who knows which of the two was acting more compassionately, or even if acting compassionately in the sense of “loving everybody” is a prerequisite for a spiritual teacher? Probably not, in my opinion.

    He smoked like a chimney till he died of lung cancer. Probably for some people that would exclude him from the role of spiritual teacher too.

    And, from another angle, there’s no such thing as a spiritual teacher, at least I never met one.

    Now he’s dead, so unfortunately we don’t have a chance to check him out for ourselves.

    In any case, for me, his writings are wonderful. I can’t say more than that. Doesn’t mean I’d give him 10% of my income and believe him if he said Bombay was going to fall into the sea, however.


  325. My two bits,
    What harmony is there in:
    “I seek harmony, in and out. So, get lost, you Thunderdome types!”

    The tone of your question reveals the programming of the “king of hearts” act that everyone is supposed to keep under control in the Fellowship so that the dissonances don’t start popping out of the bag.

    If you could imagine being in a mountain climbing trip and watching your friends hanging from a very thin chord that is about to break and unless you shout loud enough they will not notice it in time to replace it for another, you would not be afraid of shouting out loud what needs to be said.

    We will all say everything sooner or later and better sooner than later.

    The half healing recipes, the live and let live, the mind your own business formulas are part of the programmed attitude to keep the status quo in which people do not even aim to dialogue because they think it is worthless.

    We’re all suffering extreme “splitting” which your name clearly implies, and I’m not interested in judging you for it but don’t think you are any sweeter than the thunderdomes like me.

    People who have quietly put up with the Fellowship while they think they are profiting from a situation to make something of their lives may not scream the hell out of themselves like me, but they need to deal with a different act that is keeping the hell going without their willingness to interfere. The opportunism of keeping things going while others get abused, is not any sweeter. There is no better feature than another and it is a good thing that when the thunderstorm is taking away the city, we shout loud enough so that people can hear.

    You will hopefully not waste the opportunity to bring out the necessary nerve and free yourself from the all too expected act of submission to the form. You’ll feel much better with yourself for at least trying and your friends will get a sense of what being true to yourself might feel like. Beside all that thundering, be much welcomed to your self.


  326. #330 RN
    I think being compassionate and loving others, especially those who are less fortunate, would definitely be a prerequisite for any spiritual teacher I would ever choose to follow. Love is the heart of the matter.


  327. In London 5 people left in the last 5 months.


  328. 319 my2bits

    “So, how best to leave?”

    Do it with courage and don’t look back!
    Words will follow while your action will be speaking out loud for you.


  329. on September 6, 2007 at 12:44 pm Across the River

    Dear my2bits (319),

    I left quietly about a year and a half ago after spending at least a year waffling about it. There wasn’t a replacement community or even one other person I knew in agreement with my choice waiting for me. A couple of friends who were staying “in” did value me enough to see that our friendship could continue in a broader venue.

    After my single and simple exit letter to a center director was acknowledged, I felt a most welcome lightness and joy, like anticipating a trip with all things possible, and it had been so long since I felt that buoyancy! A little later there arrived bittersweet recollections and the flashes of regret for the years invested, etc, etc, etc. This was my time for transformation and healing on a personal level. I still believed without judgement that those who continued in the FOF were making their choice to stay, just as I had been free to make my choice to leave – harmony in and out, as you say.

    My reason for finally leaving was the nature and scale of things wrong about Robert and his operation versus my own common sense and conscience. Even though I was finished ‘working with the contradictions’, I felt I had to understand how another could choose to stay, since I had been in that position myself. Harmony in and out?

    I suggest you write your letters and simply explain why you are leaving, which is what you know now. Your knowing will expand, but not until later. My own experience has been that personal transformation and healing is just the first process. There are more little bits of programming than you might imagine to observe and shed. One bit of programming is that
    Robert’s FOF is a beneficial organization and those supporting it have nothing to defend.

    How can there be harmony in and out?

    I hope you write with no apology or wish to appease those who will not honor your decision. You’re wise to see this opportunity to reach others. I hope you will trust your own authority to say the plain truth as you have found it. Somehow that is where we’re meeting these days.

    Good Luck!


  330. To my2bits (319):

    I announced my leaving by making a call to Robert and telling him I was leaving. You might want to do the same, or not, as you please.

    Robert told me he was grateful I called, since almost nobody ever did, and he did not know why anyone would want to leave. (Methinks he might be quite dissociated from knowing what actually goes on in his students, partly from lack of interest, partly from self-delusion.)

    As ever, my experience was pretty mixed. I had a lot of fear surrounding the call. I found a place where I still loved him and saw him as some sort of parent/guardian of my soul. I felt him lash out at me with withering comments when he felt personally threatened. I recognized his total incomprehension of where I was at, or the value of other approaches. I found the conversation interesting and strangely real. And I sensed a madness in him as some of his comments were non-sequitors and off-the-wall.

    Anyway, if you want, you can call him and have your own experience. A closure. My goodness, I bet you have paid for it already.

    David


  331. re: 319 2bits

    thank you for your post and your struggle with leaving — the struggle with leaving is part of the struggle to ‘awaken’ and we know how difficult that can be.
    i left in ’83 – i don’t want to think about how many years ago that is – i’ve painted a general picture on the blog of my own difficulties in leaving, here are a few more details… i mentioned previously that after i left, i had nowhere to go, no friends or family outside of the fof, that due to the ‘no-contact’ programming by the fof… an extremely effective means of ‘mind-control’ and a tool for keeping people there ‘in-the-fold.’ when i left i was forced by circumstance to live on the streets of s.f. for a period… while wandering the streets i found a publication called ‘utopian eyes’ by a group calling themselves ‘the utopian islanders’ which was a type of ‘commune’ (in multiple houses) based in the haight-ashbury district… by ’83 it was a kind of relic of the ‘counter-culture’ movement of the ’60’s and ’70s. i went to a few of their meetings, which involved a sort of ‘gestalt-encounter-group’ type format… this was a free-wheeling, very intense dialogue and conversation on a whole range of topics including politics, philosophy, ‘enlightenment,’ (yes they were up on the 4th way and many other ‘paths’ as well). there was something to the process in the meetings that resembled a spontaneous ‘democratic participation’ which i found ‘refreshing’ and ‘real.’ i came to the meetings and told my story to the 25-30 folks in attendance… that was embarrassing… i guess they found me to be a ‘sympathetic character,’ they accepted me into the group. at one meeting i told of the wife i’d left behind at the fof and i was encouraged by the group to call her, right then and there in the middle of the meeting and in front of the everyone attending! i did so, but m (‘the wife’) was unswayed, thought it strange that i should even call in that context… maybe so… i didn’t stay long with the group, it was some respite from wandering the streets, they gave me shelter and more importantly they gave me support… but the intensity of the ‘gestapo-gestalt’ in their meetings, combined with the recent shock of leaving the fof and finding myself indigent and without friends, created a state in me which i might call ‘a nervous breakdown’ (for lack of a better word), i couldn’t stop crying, (and i’m no sissy, boys don’t cry — or so i thought at the time). i soon found myself in the psychiatric ward of a hospital in s.f. telling my story to several of the doctors on the staff… they were supportive, sympathetic, but didn’t know what to do with me… they sent me to a ‘half-way’ house for parolees and recovering drug addicts. i went through the interview process there with a gruff woman who ran the thing, afterward i mingled a bit with some of the folks who lived there… i realized very quickly that i was in the wrong place, and walked out the front door and back to life on the streets.

    I won’t go into any more detail here, this is already becoming overly wordy and it might be getting away from the point… the point being, there are many ways to leave, none are easy especially when it involves leaving behind friends and loved ones. my contact with the ‘utopian islanders’ in part, represented an attempt to restore my lost sense of community and the support that comes with it. i wrote in an earlier posting that if this website were in place when i left, and i knew about it, my departure would have been a much different experience. it is fortunate for those who are leaving now that such a resource is in place and perhaps the best you can do for those friends you are leaving behind is to refer them to the site. i wish you well in your journey,

    in love and support.


  332. on September 6, 2007 at 2:47 pm wake up little suzy wake up

    Dear My2bits: I left 13 years ago with many others, and most of my good friends had either left or were leaving at the same time I did. That made it a lot easier for me although I chose to leave the area and stayed away for 5 years. I found trying to explain why I was leaving the school to others that were still in the Fellowship extremely frustrating and painful. Only later did I understand that everyone who is going to leave does so in their own time and that it wasn’t something I had any control over. However I do agree that there were probably things I had said and things I did that stuck with some for a later exit.

    I feel that many of the personal struggles I had before joining the Fellowship continued while in. And some of ‘my stuff’ was ignored and followed me out. If there is any regret I feel it’s that I wasted time in the Fellowship. However, I’m not sure what would have changed had I not joined. I was headed down a self destructive road before I joined. Who knows?

    I think writing a letter and talking to friends is very brave. At the time I left I felt very emotionally fragile and when I did speak up and received the cold shoulder or someone’s blank stare it was just too painful. So I decided to leave pretty much in silence. My personal power was at its lowest. And had I been in a better place with myself at the time I would have spoken out because I think that it may some day help someone to leave.

    I think it’s important to remember that ‘we were all there’ at one time, believing either all or some part of the lie. And I can remember when someone tried to upset that lie I was believing reacting in somewhat the same way. But those nuggets of information stuck with me and later became part of the leaving process for me.

    I don’t think anyone that was in the Fellowship and left after many years did not have to go through some big process with themselves upon leaving. The spell had been broken and no going back. And we were back to dealing with the world as it is and as it was. No escape hatch.

    And now the big work begins!


  333. Violeta Parra – Joan Baez

    Gracias a la Vida que me ha dado tanto
    me dio dos luceros que cuando los abro
    perfecto distingo lo negro del blanco
    y en el alto cielo su fondo estrellado

    y en las multitudes el hombre que yo amo.

    Gracias a la Vida que me ha dado tanto
    me ha dado el sonido y el abedecedario
    con él las palabras que pienso y declaro
    madre amigo hermano y luz alumbrando,
    la ruta del alma del que estoy amando.

    Gracias a la vida, que me ha dado tanto
    me ha dado el oido que en todo su ancho
    graba notche y dia grillos y canarios
    marillos, turbinas, labridos, chubascos
    y la voz tan tierna de mi bien amado.

    Gracias a la Vida que me ha dado tanto
    me ha dado la marcha de mis pies cansados
    con ellos anduve ciudades y charcos,
    playas y desiertos montañas y llanos
    y la casa tuya, tu calle y tu patio.

    Gracias a la Vida que me ha dado tanto
    me dio el corazón que agita su marco
    cuando miro el fruto del cerebro humano,
    cuando miro el bueno tan lejos del malo,
    cuando miro el fondo de tus ojos claros.

    Gracias a la Vida que me ha dado tanto
    me ha dado la risa y me ha dado el llanto,
    así yo distingo dicha de quebranto
    los dos materiales que forman mi canto
    y el canto de ustedes que es el mismo canto
    y el canto de todos que es mi propio canto.

    Gracias a la Vida
    Gracias a la Vida
    Gracias a la Vida


  334. 337 wake up little suzy: “I think it’s important to remember that ‘we were all there’ at one time, believing either all or some part of the lie.”

    Yes, shortly after leaving I was invited to dinner by some old friends who had left about 3/4 years previously. I was complaining about some of my friends who had cut me off when I left. The lady who had invited me said (in a friendly way) “well, you did the same to us when we left.” That shut me up!


  335. 319 my2bits

    Take your time in thinking about writing goodbye – you want it to stand the test of time in the inner role of your name.

    For example, on leaving I sent a simple letter to the Fellowship of Friends staff (AKA my friends).

    But later realized the letter that I should of sent was to Robert Burton and might have gone perhaps a little like this:

    Dear Robert,

    On my first visit to The Property the dog Samantha nipped my leg, and while savoring the view from what would become the patio of the Lodge under the thorn tree – a bird shit on my glasses.

    At the time, I took these as positive shocks and especially good omens.

    I would not do so today.

    Sincerely,

    “Old FOF”


  336. The problem is all inside your head
    He said to me
    The answer is easy, dear
    Just trust influence C

    (I like to help you in your struggle
    To be free..
    There must be fifty ways
    To leave your teacher)

    He said it’s really not my habit
    To drink splooge
    Furthermore, I hope my meaning
    Won’t be lost or misconstrued
    But I’ll go first
    (‘Cuz he’s one sleazy dude)

    But there are fifty ways
    To leave your teacher
    Fifty ways to leave your teacher

    You just slip out the back, Jack
    Make some new aims, James
    You don’t need to be gay, Ray
    Just get yourself free
    Hop on the bus, Gus
    You don’t need to discuss much
    Just drop off the key, Lee
    And set your soul free

    He said it peeves me so
    To see you in such pain
    I wish there was something I could do
    To make you cum again
    I said, no thanks for that
    But would you please explain
    About the 44 angels?

    He said why don’t you
    Just sleep with me tonight
    And I believe in the morning
    You’ll begin to see the light

    And then he kissed me
    And I realized
    No one cares about my plight

    Thank God there’s fifty ways
    To leave your teacher
    Fifty ways to leave your teacher

    You just slip out the back, Jack
    Make some new aims, James
    You don’t need to be gay, Ray
    Just get yourself free
    Hop on the bus, Gus
    You don’t need to discuss much
    Just drop off the key, Lee
    And set your soul free


  337. Hey, I just remembered the time we played softball at Ren/App/Is and I lined a wicked shot off Robert’s left shin (he was pitching at the time); knocked him out of the game if I recall correctly. I wonder how he interpreted that shock?

    When I came back to the center after that particular visit, as usual, everyone wanted to know if I had brought back any sage advice from the Teach. I thought for a minute and said, “Yes, Robert says: Two outs, run on anything.”


  338. Dear my2bits, (20/319)

    How to leave the FoF? Simply disappear, or explain yourself to your friends? Make a noise or crawl out the back door? The more you tear apart the question, the more you find good reasons both for and against either. Well, since there is no way that you can ever make a decision that will be absolutely correct on all levels, why not simply do what intuitively feels right for yourself? Between two decisions, there is usually one that you prefer, if ever so slightly.

    I did write a goodbye letter to a few friends before I left. It was not a negative letter, it didn’t call people to stand up against Robert, it didn’t even give away any details of public secrets. It simply outlined my relationship to the teaching and the teacher, and my inner processes. It stated that I probably would not stay in the FoF much longer. Why did I do this? I have to say it was mostly for myself, in that I wrote it to overcome internal censorship which had not allowed me to feel what I felt; and in order to probe who is capable of hearing me, to see how and if our relationship can continue. I also wrote it in the hope that these people would start speaking with each other about some of the issues, because I believed that such communication would move them forward in their understanding.

    They didn’t speak about the issues. When they did carefully discuss my letter, it was about how to transform the shock, not resent it, limit the damage and move on. Still, I was surprised and pleased with the reactions that followed privately, because they were revealing if sometimes disturbing. With some, the letter produced a great fear that something precious is being mercilessly destroyed – and I feel for people like that, because it seems they are in for a lot of suffering to break through, they just don’t know it yet. With others, this communication opened doors for a deeper sharing and connection. Still others grappled with trying to understand me but remain somewhat puzzled and distanced within the confines of FoF exercises and dogma. Some just didn’t care to inform themselves further because they are still riding the high wave of Fellowship elation and still learning and benefiting, although they respect my decision and it doesn’t seem to matter to them that I’m formally no longer a member. And from some I just never heard again.

    In the end I was glad to have sent the letter because more truth was uncovered. There are all kinds of people, and we all are at different points in our different processes. To force your hard-won understanding down the throat of a person who has a different set of priorities and benefits at the moment is no more useful than trying to pry open a rosebud that is just now delighting in being a bud. It’s different with someone who is suffering in silence and is only waiting to be thrown a life-line such as your letter might be. But in any event people will hear only what they are ready to hear, and everything will fall in its place.

    Harmony is going to be destroyed, you can be sure of that. You are deliberately rocking the boat. But boats rock – that’s what they do, and sometimes you absolutely have to rock it, just to make sure that it’s a real boat, just because you’d rather get sick with real seasickness than with the pressure of keeping a lid on every little sideways move.

    When you leave, you have to expand your mind to reevaluate who you are and what your friendships are based on. The veneer of FoF homogeneity is dissolved. You are forced to be responsible for your own decisions and for discovering what kind of person you actually prefer to be. I remember at the beginning of the blog someone said something that was very helpful to me: “If you then find out that you have no more friends, then you had no real friendships to begin with. Deal with it (voluntary suffering).” It makes space for life to continue. For real harmony to eventually arise.

    One of the things you may come to see after you leave, is that this decision on whether I should leave and how to leave and when to leave is only a big issue from the inside. Once you are out, you see that nothing really happened. Just another shell of your imaginary picture of yourself fell away, that’s all. There is an in and an out only from within – but from the big wide world it’s all the same. No real boundaries, only the shackles of imagination.

    There are people who need to raise a storm as they leave and there are those who seek reconciliation. It’s all good. Do what you feel is right for you. Don’t worry about whether it’s your Queen of Hearts asking the questions, you’ve shouldered the blame long enough. Just go on to learning to trust yourself a little. When you hear platitudes echoed back to you as you sail away, hear them. Enjoy them. They are an inevitable part of the whole story. It’s wonderful: you’re getting a real life. Embrace being shunned, if it happens. Find compassion for the people who remain bound by rules and fear of losing their soul. You can’t help them, at least not by directly telling them what you see. But you can love them. Love melts. And even if they don’t change to fit who you are now, you can still love them as human beings. You may find more willingness and open-mindedness than you expect. It is a voyage of discovery for all of us.


  339. on September 6, 2007 at 4:59 pm Old Fish In The Sea

    On Breaking from Society

    Those in the FOF are encouraged to believe that “Life is a descending Octave” and that the FOF is above the laws and Feminine dominance of our society. The musical and entertainment tastes of the masses, the table manners and choice of fast food, the expressions of negativity, the acceptance of poor impressions and other manifestations of humans on earth are pointed to as evidence of life’s mechanicality. The Fellowship love of the classical arts, appreciation for fine dining and dress, ability to smile and be loving through difficulty, and devotion to “higher” aims, is applied as evidence of a superior society. Once this division is crystallized, the breaking of laws and societal norms can be justified as the “cost of being better” – “the cost of being different”. “Life could never understand a higher morality”.

    Those that stay in the FOF are encouraged to believe that this “higher morality” requires psychological thinking. It requires reprogramming the instincts and a separation from life, so as to think in this new way. They are encouraged to believe that this new way of thinking is necessary to break the bonds of mechanicality and evolve into a society that has higher laws based more on truth. They applaud Robert for taking them out of the old way of viewing the world. In the extreme, they see his sexual habits, disrespect for the laws of society, disrespect for frugality and financial householder and his odd way of relating to people as evidence of a disconnection from society and a “higher” way of viewing the world.

    Many of us also were discontented with many of the attitudes that we saw on earth. We also were attracted to an ideal, more psychological way of living. We knew that it was necessary to be different in order to be better and that this was not easy. Robert’s ways of being different went way beyond dressing in red robes or chanting or meditating. His ways of being different applied to every moment and drew from some of the best literature and finest art from history. Robert was attracted to finer things and encouraged that in his students. He attracted people capable of thinking in a new way, capable of working hard to carry out his vision, capable of unselfish devotion to a better world.

    Meanwhile Robert separated himself more and more from life. He, more than anyone, wanted a lifestyle that was free from life’s laws. The dedication of his students allowed him to live as he pleased and to set an example of life free from the laws of our society.

    Unfortunately, this separation from life came at a high cost. It meant losing contact with those outside of RB’s thinking. It meant a division between us and them. It meant letting go of a sense of fairness. It meant allowing some to suffer for the benefit of others. It led to a new kind of selfishness, as bad as, or worse than the selfishness that we all tried to escape by joining. Most importantly, it led to a loss of conscience, a loss of love for the common man and disrespect for the thinking that produced our society and our laws.

    Over decades, those that had been the life force of the Fellowship, those that were effectively working in life, and those that were most successful and most intelligent became disenchanted. In order to be successful in life, they had to learn ways of respecting those that did not hold to the Fellowship perspective. They had to see the world both from the Fellowship perspective and also from the perspective of some of the more intelligent and successful people in life. As some of the Fellowship ideals degenerated into debauchery, poor judgment, selfishness, ridiculous interpretations of history and art, and deception and disrespect for alternative viewpoints, many of those that were bringing in the money became uncomfortable. The gulf between the Fellowship viewpoint, and successful people outside of the Fellowship became too large. There was no viewpoint that could honestly encompass both worlds. It was particularly uncomfortable to support illegal, nonsensical, and pompous Fellowship activities and attitudes.

    The Fellowship will pay its price for “hubris”. For those of us that have left, it is a great joy to be free from the fabricated attitudes that allow such enormous deviations from common sense. It is wonderful to develop attitudes open to loving life, loving the common man, and loving the moment as it is. These attitudes lead to success both externally and internally. It is wonderful to be free from supporting debauchery, illegal activities and imaginary superiority that over time separate us from human kind and lead to failure.

    It is life enhancing to form a worldview that holds to psychological thinking, to the possibilities of a better life, to the opportunities for better states and understanding, while respecting the attitudes of our society and alternative ways of viewing the world. If there is a “C” influence, I believe the Asaf shock, and many of the other shocks including the internal sex scandals, the failure of the Theatron, the destruction of the vineyard and winery, the blog, and the exodus of students point out how the Fellowship has lost touch with life as it is. Vanity and pride have created an unhealthy separation. Evolution must start with reality. Evolution must maintain a bridge to humanity. The third state is knowing the truth about ourselves.

    But our love goes on.


  340. one more little pearl of pop culture
    http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=2XS5mQawaQg


  341. Old Fish In The Sea 343
    Beautiful. Thanks.


  342. Old Fish In The Sea (around) 343

    On Breaking from Society

    ***************

    A clear view and well expressed. Perfect.

    ***

    Many mad dogs of the human variety collect around the occasional appearance of truth when it surfaces in open society because they sense that truth will soon attract money and unsuspecting sexual morsels. Truth used as power is the strongest psychological poison known to man and there is never a short supply of those incapable of resisting the temptation to wield power over unsuspecting innocents. People desperately want to believe that they are something special and therefore are always available as victims of the unscrupulous.


  343. Sorry, I just got back from the concession stand and have returned to my front row seat in this theater of”Esoteric Inner Confusion”. The Sheik is a genius.

    I’m scanning the stage for Unoanimo where is he? Peeking around some prop most likely. Oh, there he is putting on his lead toed motorcycle boots adorn with spurs, OMG who is he after?

    I love this theater. It has ALL the human emotions spoken through the intellected tongue.

    We down on the front row laugh, cry, scream with delight, hiss, applaud, give standing ovations, yell bravos and kudos, fall in love and experience discomfort. The show must go on.

    Innernaut #303: Everytime I hear the name Thomas Easley I want to remember. The name “rings a bell”. I remember a male that I met in some teaching center that I think was him.
    As I remember, he was sitting down and had an art pad in front of him. He was sketching with either a pencil or pen. I remember looking over his shoulder and remarking how good his drawing was. He looked up and thanked me. Using FOF language he seemed to be a martial with a ruddy complection and trim. And, he seemed sincerely nice.

    Zena #332: You got it. Mother Theresa would also understand.

    Elena,

    Your husband kicked me out. So, my story is a whole lot different than most here. I disliked myself for years and years including going through a period of “death wishes” because I sincerely believed the fool lost a real school.

    What your husband did was create for me a sink or swim situation. Originally I took it as a task. Then become numb to the task about six years later. It is very hard to begin at the street level. To paraphrase a quote, “what doesnt kill you will make you stronger”.

    Maybe “C” influence created this blog, The Greater Fellowship site and “Whatisthework” site created by Alice E. All good for the service of humanity.

    Amens from the front row.


  344. Awesome, Old Fish.
    Thank you.


  345. About leaving…. I think we are leaving different ‘things’. I did not really leave a teacher because that is not how I related to the fof or what I thought a school was. For me, it was the others, the members. Personally, inner work has always been private and ongoing, and the notion of school was for a group experience. And I left the group.

    Some occasional friends were retained and that was great! Thank you friends!

    But I wanted to not feel disconnected with life – and I use the word life in the fullest sense. I did not want to be disconnected from compassion, and in order to give that expression – participation! – with my fellow human beings. So I wrote RB a little note, for me since I fully expected it would not be read, but I believe in thank you notes ;-) . And then left. But still lived an a beautiful teaching house for several months which was strange, but nice of the center directors.

    The actual leaving of the notion of ‘group’ took many years and included the process of integrating myself into a new life. Group grew into a more organic and alive form – community. I find that here in blog-land too. It took the negative experience of elitist group and extracted the ‘elitist’ (as best as possible, it is a process) and somehow the negative reaction to ‘elitist’ quietly grew into a very positive experience of community which I value!!


  346. Dear Old Fish
    250 285 343
    I LOVE YOU!


  347. on September 6, 2007 at 6:39 pm hardlyanafterthought

    Innernaut Part 20 #3 – About inner division, good, evil, etc

    Thanks for the post. I had a similar experience that led to my quietly slippiing out a side door in the middle of the night, leaving FOF. Looking back, for my own peace of mind I tried to squelch that inner division in any way I could – through alchohol, relationships anything that would squash either the good side or the bad side for inner peace and quiet. Of course that never works, but only continues to forge a deeper division and more inner warfare.
    I had similar experiences in my Catholic up-bringing which used a polarizing morality to underpin it’s authority and control over it’s memebrs. If one mistrusts oneself then one seeks others or institutions to show one certainty, wholeness and the way in a never ending cycle of control and submission – control’s reason for existence being maintaining control – so no real growth or enhancement is possible.
    I thought I had found something different in the Fellowship, some spriitual path that did not contain the dynamic of good and evil, good self and bad self – after all I had read that Gurdjieff said that verification for oneself was a cornerstone to development. But after all that did not seem to be the case in what I had stumbled into with FOF. We needed to continue to mistrust ourselves in order to have a relationship to the community (the lower cannot see the higher, etc.), so integration of our polarized parts was antithetical to the continuance of the communities (FOF)control.
    Over the years I’ve come to see that this ‘Structure’ is far more pervasive than FOF, but has been the way control over our ‘undesirable’ parts has been maintained for millenia. So, I believe it is deeply rooted in man’s nature and can be tapped by those so inclined to be the controlling element. The way out seems to be connected to self trust and integration of the repressed and the repressor, the good and the bad. The journey continues.

    Thanks for the space to ramble – JohnF


  348. Graduates #320
    Rhino Neal #321
    More history needed? #322
    Sharon #323
    David B. #325
    Way.of.the.Slow.Man #326
    Janna #327
    Elena #331
    X-ray, #333
    Across the River #334
    Chortle Mortal #335
    ‘ton #336
    Wake up little suzy wake up #337
    Old FOF #339
    Traveler #342
    Old Fish in the Sea #343
    KA #349

    Heartfelt thanks to all of you who responded so generously and thoughtfully to my post #319. I’m just overwhelmed by the positive support… Thank you!


  349. Thank you Arthur, I am glad you understand what it feels like. Sometimes I think I am absolutely nuts for feeling these way. While I know nobody hurts anyone intentionally that is no longer an excuse to not question how much pain the Fellowship of Friends, Robert, Girard, the inner circle and those in the outer circle who are willing to support it blindly, are willing to indulge in, by simply allowing for so many people to be used, as they themselves have allowed to be used by Robert and lost the capacity to love. It wouldn’t feel all that bad if they were at least less proud of it. But they are actually proud. I wish you would tell your story with Girard. I am afraid he is convinced he is such an angel and so are so many of the followers. If you would all tell the facts without insulting or low blows (we have enough of those!). It is not about destroying the being but about not allowing further crystallizations not only in Robert and Girard but in all those people that have attached their personalitiies to theirs. Am I so terrible that you don’t think we need your stories about Girard? That he doesn’t need to hear from someone other than his “crazy” wife what it is that he’s been doing for thirty five years? Can we really blame Robert or Girard for being where they are when we have allowed them to talk endlessly without ever seriously questioning them? Sorry, yes, those who questioned were thrown out.

    The Following text from Girard, I think is a booklet that was recently given out, sold out, in the Fellowship. Girard never answered my questioning of it and instead withdrew from having contact with me. I don’t suppose I can blame him after attacking him and the fellowship as I have.

    I am publishing it here because it may be useful for students to look into the miriad contradictions in this text. The inconsistent thought process and mind games so that people feel they are just not good enough if they contradict the Fellowship, Robert or Girard.

    Not that I have any hope of students reading me presently but hopefully I’ll stop thinking about these things soon and cannot wait for you to be ready, for me to move on.

    I wrote these angles to Girard a couple of months ago and am not much reviewing it now but welcome anyone interested in pointing out inconsistencies I did not look into.

    True that shouting pain will not really make others think much, so better to look into the mind frame that holds the fellowship together.

    PSYCHOLOGICAL THINKING
    BY GIRARD HAVEN
    Based on a Meeting in Mexico City, June 18, 2007
    With Additional Angles from a Dinner at the Galleria, March 6, 2007

    This meeting will be based on the first six pages of Chapter 15 of The Fourth Way. Mr. Ouspensky starts that chapter by talking about esotericism, and then goes on to say that the only way in which esotericism can be understood is by using the psychological method, which he also refers to as psychological thinking, and so he moves on to a
    consideration of the nature of psychological thinking. From one angle, Robert’s teaching during the past few years, especially in its application to esoteric quotations and images, has been a demonstration of the psychological method, and many of the difficulties which students have been having with that teaching can be seen as stemming from their use of
    logical thinking — that is, our ordinary method of thinking — rather than psychological thinking when trying to understand it.

    In this meeting, we will reverse Mr. Ouspensky’s approach. That is, we will start by exploring the meaning of the psychological method and then move on to a consideration of esotericism, before ending by looking at how this all
    applies to a specific image. All the quotations come from Chapter 15 of The Fourth Way. The page numbers refer to the English edition.

    The first [admission of the psychological method] is that things have their inner meaning. (Page 386.)

    The first thing to ask is, what is Mr. Ouspensky referring to when he says that things have an inner, or psychological meaning? A painting does not have a psychology of its own — it is just a painting. When we speak of psychology, we are speaking of the psychology of humans, so we only can
    speak of the psychological meaning of a thing in relation to human psychology, and in particular, in relation to one’s own psychology. In other words, psychological thinking begins with the idea that everything has an inner meaning for me. Consequently, from the point of view of our
    usual way of thinking, psychological thinking is subjective. That is, logical thinking assumes that when one speaks of an inner meaning, one is speaking of a meaning which differs from the ordinary ‘outer’ meaning only in the fact that it is not as obvious, whereas the psychological method
    starts by acknowledging that things have an inner meaning which I see and understand, but which may not necessarily be seen or understood by other people, and which the logical mind therefore labels as subjective.

    E. Yes, each man needs to assume responsibility from his own I. His subjectivity must become objective. But then you tell us that not one of us is conscious enough to understand Robert.”

    G. However, this does not mean that this inner, or ‘subjective’ meaning is not real. Many things exist which we cannot perceive, and yet we understand that they are real. Radio is very real, but we have no way of perceiving
    it directly. Similarly, in higher states of consciousness, one can
    perceive things which are real but cannot be perceived in lower states.
    Psychological thinking not only starts with the idea that there is an inner meaning, but adds that the inner meaning can be just as real as the ordinary meaning — in fact, that it is more real.

    All of this is somewhat intellectual and abstract, whereas Robert is very practical. For instance, where Mr. Ouspensky says that events have their inner meaning, Robert speaks of them as having been orchestrated by Influence C. And for Robert, it is not simply an ‘influence;’ it is the
    work of specific, individual consciousnesses which deliver carefully orchestrated shocks for particular purposes. It is really the same as saying that events have an inner meaning, but Robert’s vision is more concrete and less abstract.

    The part of the machine which has the possibility of actually perceiving inner meaning is the king of hearts. To the rest of the machine, seeing inner meaning means seeing things as symbols or images, but the king of hearts can become sensitive to the inner meaning directly, and thereby can
    learn to ‘think’ — that is, to receive and digest experience —
    psychologically. The knowledge of how to do this comes from the School and the Teacher, and one of the primary tasks of the steward is to assimilate that knowledge and inculcate it into the king of hearts.

    In this context, it is interesting to review the way in which Robert has taught us to be aware of inner meaning. Thirty years ago, he would buy expensive things, and then tell us how expensive they were. To some students, it seemed rather crass, but it was a time of tremendous tramp, and Robert was just teaching his students that things have a value, which
    is a rudimentary form of inner meaning. The easiest way to do that was to quote a value in dollars which would impress the instinctive center.

    Considering the level of many students at that time, that was an inner meaning — not the cost itself, but that things had value and that some things were more valuable than others.

    E. “Wouldn’t you say that Robert got stuck in the expensive things and forgot the inner meaning?

    By now the School has gone so far beyond that, that it seems hard to imagine a time when just appreciating that something was valuable on a monetary level was a way of penetrating beyond our normal way of looking at it and beginning to see that it had another meaning. Yet there are many
    ways to see beyond surface appearances which we have yet to explore. For instance, Mr. Gurdjieff describes taking a simple object, like an ashtray, and having a sense of all the people who have used it, where it has been
    used, where it was made, where it came from, and so on. If one perceived one’s existence on that level, it would add a depth which would make our present existence seem two-dimensional. And that doesn’t even go into
    anything spiritual!

    E. “Strange that you would say that that doesn’t go into anything spiritual when what Gurdjieff is describing and suggesting is precisely that one
    “spiritualize” the object in as much as one conceives of the people that have used it. The object in itself has not as much meaning as the people involved in it, specially if it’s an ashtray”.

    G. The second [admission of the psychological method] is that things are connected; they only appear to be separated. Things depend on one another, they stand in a certain relation to one another, whereas the logical method
    takes each thing separately. (Page 386.)

    As an example, one connection which I see when I visit centers in the Fellowship is that the school is a body; it is a whole. Even before the days of e-mail, a question in one part of the School, say in South America, would also be a question in other parts of the School, say in Russia. How? The best explanation that I have found so far is that the
    centers are all connected as part of a single body. Logically, the students in Buenos Aires do not know what the students are doing in Novosibirsk, and yet somehow there is a connection.

    Another example is the idea that our lives comprise a play; that the things which happen to us are not random and accidental, but are connected, and connected intelligently. That is an example of psychological thinking.
    Logical thinking takes events as separate, and consequently does not see a pattern or purpose in what happens. It tends to focus on the differences between things; it likes to find contradictions between things; it likes to see what is wrong; it likes opposite thinking. On the other hand,
    psychological thinking tends to see unity; it tends to see similarities between things; it sees connections and patterns.

    E. So where does all the sex and money in Robert’s life fit the rest?

    In short, the psychological method starts with a different attitude, and therefore is able to see things from a different angle (which, after all, is the literal, physical meaning of attitude), and therefore is aware of many
    things which the lower self cannot see with the logical mind.

    One consequence of seeing that “things depend on one another, [and] stand in a certain relation to one another,” is that one cannot take them out of context. In particular, the inner meaning of an idea must always be considered relative to the context in which it is used. Mr. Ouspensky
    himself was very sensitive about this: according to reports, when someone would start a question by saying, “Last week you said…,” he would interrupt them and ask, “Yes, but in what context did I say it?”1 In the same way, one cannot successfully approach the sequence without taking the
    context of the moment into account, and it seems to me that one of the functions of the theme is to ensure that this occurs. In fact, one could say that the theme actually enters the sequence on three occasions: first when it is intentionally chosen, and then twice during the sequence itself. This ensures that every sequence is firmly grounded in the context
    of the moment.

    Another example of the importance of always considering the context in which something is said can be seen in some of the objections raised by the lower self to the interpretations which Robert gives to the images.

    When Robert is leading a meeting, he is not talking to humanity in general, or to a group of scholars about Egyptian hieroglyphics. He is talking to men number four who are his students in the school of which he is the teacher. Consequently, one needs to understand that what he is
    saying is not for everybody; it is for his students, that is, for us.
    Although people outside the school might interpret the images in other ways, ways which would be correct for them as far as they went, for us and our psychology, the image can have a particular inner meaning, and Robert points that out to us. But logical thinking does not even admit the possibility of an inner meaning. It is stuck with the idea that Robert is
    talking about some sort of outer meaning that should be apparent to anyone once it is shown to them. Of course, that attitude causes a great deal of confusion for logical mind, because it is obvious that the meanings which
    Robert finds are not apparent to everyone, that there are many other possible meanings, and so on.

    Parts can… always be analogous, but such comparing can be useful only when you can see the whole behind the parts… We think that parts can be compared and parts can be right or wrong without relation to the whole.
    (Page 389.)

    Mr. Ouspensky says that “understanding always means connecting things with the whole,”2 and this is one of the most significant ways in which psychological thinking sees connections. A center in the Fellowship only
    has real significance in relation to the School as a whole; by itself, a center would quickly cease to exist. The only way to see that your life has a meaning and purpose coming from some higher intelligence is by considering the individual events of your life in relation to the whole of your life.

    For another example, one can consider the act of eating. One can consume food in sleep, and also one can have a very intentional, pleasant instinctive and emotional experience while dining, but that does not really get to an inner or spiritual meaning of eating. One approach is to
    experience eating as part of the process by which the universe is continually reorganizing itself, by which everything ‘eats’ and is ‘eaten’ by something else. The logical mind takes things as separate, so it says,
    “I eat the food,” but if everything is connected and really all one, then‘eating’ ceases to make sense as a concept: after all, how can something
    eat itself?

    E. In relation to eating what has the fellowship done to connect us to the
    food process but reached the point in which students are not to eat so
    that they can look into Robert’s eyes? There is no appreciation for food
    in the fellowship. It has been reduced to a totally instinctive function
    without any meaning.

    At this point, the use of the psychological method begins to breaks down
    one of the most basic illusions of the second state, the illusion of a
    separate, independent existence. This prepares one for the next stage of
    psychological thinking, which is to take the understanding of the external
    world and use it to experience the way in which one’s internal world is
    constantly shifting and reorganizing itself: the way in which one ‘I’
    feeds another ‘I’, in which lower manifestations such as negative emotions
    can be transformed, and in which higher emotions are pulled down and eaten
    by the lower self. It is like a great, boiling pot, with presence floating
    gently above it all like steam.

    Another way to see the difference between logical and psychological
    thinking is that logical thinking sees things as separate because it is
    looking at them with the many ‘I’s. One ‘I’ sees one thing, another ‘I’
    sees something else. Since the two ‘I’s are not connected, the logical
    mind assumes that the things themselves must be separate. Psychological
    thinking begins to see connections and similarities among things because,
    when one works on oneself, the ‘I’s begin to be connected. But what brings
    unity to the ‘I’s is not that the ‘I’s themselves become unified with each
    other; it is that one begins to have something larger than the individual
    ‘I’s — something steady and consistent — and the ‘I’s become connected
    relative to that.

    This, then, is an inner meaning of the idea that things are connected. One
    is able to perceive connections between external things only to the extent
    that one is able to connect internal things, specifically, to connect the
    many ‘I’s to something higher. In other words, psychologically, the
    external connections and the internal connections are actually
    manifestations of the same thing on different scales.

    At first, the thing relative to which the ‘I’s can be connected is one’s
    aim to awaken. In the process of developing a steward, we learn take each
    ‘I’ and each thing relative to its value to awakening, that is, relative
    to our aim. On a higher level, which to my understanding is the level of
    our Teacher, everything is connected by its relation to presence. He is
    present, and content to consider everything relative to his presence, not
    in the sense of intellectually thinking about it, but in the sense of
    experiencing it.

    Of course, as people who do not yet have presence as a continual aspect of
    their being, we cannot quite experience the reality of this. But we can
    prepare the ground by taking it as a principal that things are connected.
    One can then form the habit of asking oneself, “How does this relate to
    something bigger?”, and then finding that something. From one angle, it
    doesn’t matter much what it is, because by thinking in this way, one will
    think oneself out of the logical mind.

    The basis of [the psychological] method… is the realization of the
    relativity of mind — the understanding of the type and kind of mind used
    and realization that in one state of mind things can be understood in one
    way and in another in another way… The psychological method shows that
    every thing, every conclusion, every deduction is a mental picture and is
    merely the result of the working of our mind. (Page 386.)

    Logical thinking takes its idea of the objective as that which is common to
    everyone. To logical thinking, a table is a table because everyone who
    enters the room will agree that it is a table. Of course, modern physics
    says that a table is not really a table at all, that it is mostly empty
    space with a few atoms circulating in it. Consequently, even a table is a
    mental construct. And anyone who has experimented with psychedelic drugs
    will have verified that a small amount of certain drugs can radically
    alter the way in which one’s brain assembles sensory data into an image of
    reality.

    Therefore, if even ‘reality’ is merely a mental construct, what is real?
    Well, the only thing one can be certain about is one’s own experience in
    the moment; it may or may not be ‘real’ on some larger scale, but even the
    Absolute cannot argue that it is not one’s experience. This, then, is a
    logical argument that psychologically based thinking is at least as real
    as logical thinking. In fact, one can be more certain of the reality of
    one’s own ‘subjective’ experience than one can of the reality of anything
    else.

    Considering it more closely, the idea that what is objective is common to
    everyone not only means that what is objective is independent of oneself,
    but also that it can be perceived or understood by anyone who is in the
    second state. Psychological thinking turns this idea of objective and
    subjective upside down, for it affirms the fact that what one perceives
    and understands depends on one’s state of consciousness. So rather than
    taking the second state as its standard for the objective, it takes the
    third state as its standard, or maybe even the fourth state. Indeed, it is
    quite possible that anyone in the fourth state would perceive, or at least
    immediately understand, Robert’s interpretations of the images. If that is
    so, his interpretations are actually much more objective than those of the
    logical mind because they represent objectivity in a higher state of
    consciousness.

    It is obvious that you are interpreting and reinterpreting ideas so that
    you confuse people about how to interpret Robert. I don’t think you are
    doing it intentionally, you’ve confused your self too long ago. The whole
    last paragraph is symptomatic of the way you’ve misconstrued reality to
    adapt it to the fellowship’s interest. The premise is that since Robert
    is in a higher state of consciousness, only those in a similar state can
    understand him. This is indoctrination number one of the fellowship of
    friends. Idolatry is an even better word for it. The underlying concept
    is..you cannot trust your logical mind when you are in front of a
    conscious being, believe in him blindly because there is nothing in
    yourself that you can trust above his objectivity.

    In what state Girard, do you have to be in to understand Robert’s abuse
    of authority in his relation with men thirty years younger than himself?
    Or the misuse of fellowship money for his insatiable greed?

    Since when does consciousness act against human
    dignity and morality? Ouspensky talks about a morality of men number
    1,2,3,4,5,6,7. Are we to believe that Robert’s morality is the morality
    of a conscious being number seven?

    Another implication of the concept of relativity of mind is that there are
    better and worse kinds of thinking relative to the particular problem at
    hand, and that one needs to learn to recognize and to use the most
    appropriate kind of thinking. For instance, the thinking of the emotional
    center is good for solving some kinds of problems, especially for
    understanding and working with our relations with each other. One can’t
    really do that using intellectual logic, but then the emotional center is
    totally inappropriate for balancing a checkbook. When approaching a
    conscious teaching, one must understand that there are different types of
    thinking, and that even those work differently depending on which part of
    the center you are using and on the quality of attention being used, that
    is, on how present you are. If one tries to use the wrong part relative to
    what one wishes to think about or understand, it will create a more
    confusing mess than is created by trying to balance a checkbook
    emotionally.

    A number of years ago when I was writing for the Fellowship Forum, I would
    write essays that seemed logical, but really weren’t because the emotional
    center would know ahead of time what I was going to ‘prove.’ I would simply
    construct an argument that would get me where the king of hearts knew I
    wanted to go. In the work, it is really the emotional center — the king of
    hearts — that understands an idea like presence. The intellectual center
    can then be used to describe why one isn’t present, what steps might be
    necessary to engage presence, and so on, but by itself the intellectual
    center cannot determine where to go.

    Psychological thinking is intentional. That means that it both has an aim
    and is aware of that aim, and that it takes place in the intellectual
    parts of centers. Consequently, it is able to use the various capacities
    of the machine to achieve its aim. Logical thinking, on the other hand,
    has the attitude that thinking is good in itself, irrespective of where it
    happens to lead one. And because its thinking is essentially aimless, where
    it happens to lead one often does little but create denying force.

    E. Basically you’re revealing
    how you yourself work. Your emotional aim is to support Robert so you can
    bend whatever logic as long as you accomplish that and whoever opposes
    your thinking is just a dumb logical thinker creating denying force to
    your emotional aim. This have been your tactics for years. To undermine
    anyone opposing your statements with this kind of reasoning.

    This brings up one of the difficulties we have in understanding the idea of
    psychological thinking, namely that psychological thinking is more than
    intellectual activity. On the contrary, it requires what Robert calls
    common sense, that is, the sense (or intelligence) of all four lower
    centers working in common. By itself, the intellectual center can argue
    one way or the other: you can do this or you can do that, and you can
    think of plausible justifications for either. Its right work, and its
    particular way of perceiving the world, is to perceive things as being
    relatively unconnected, and then to build connections between them. But
    aim or purpose must come from one of the other centers. Often that will be
    the instinctive center — which, after all, does have very definite aims
    about the preservation of the machine — but in the work, one’s aim must be
    set by the emotional center. In either case, once an aim is established,
    whether intentionally or in sleep, the intellectual center has a certain
    capacity for analyzing a problem, that is, for determining where one is
    and how one can get from there to where one wants to go. Although this is
    useful, it does not represent oneself, because even as a machine one has
    three other centers. In particular, from the point of view of the work,
    one has an emotional center with a king and within that, a nine.

    E. First you were saying that common sense does not exist because people’s
    subjectivity depends on their state of consciousness, therefor nobody’s
    common sense can measure Robert’s consciousness. Now you are saying,
    psychological thinking requires common sense of all four centers but
    that none of them can get any credit because there are four of them. The
    only one that counts then is the emotional center.

    In the second state, one seldom asks oneself why one is thinking: what is
    the aim, what problem is one trying to solve, and so on. One simply
    identifies with the process and assumes that it is right. Psychological
    thinking starts with a sense of having different tools at hand and then
    applying the appropriate tools to the various sides of a problem or
    question. While that is still not quite the same as seeing the inner
    meaning of things, it greatly reduces the ability of the formatory mind to
    keep one imprisoned in the world of superficial appearances.

    All of this — how things are being connected, how the centers and their
    various parts are being used, and with what degree of presence it all
    occurs — contributes to the relativity Mr. Ouspensky speaks of. At its
    highest level, the psychological method starts with a vision of the whole
    and then intentionally allows the various parts of the machine to break
    that whole down and work with it. But always one tries to have something
    which stays above all of it and simply watches, appreciating each part for
    both its strengths and its limitations. That ‘something’ is presence, and
    when presence is engaged, psychological thinking is transformed.

    E. Transformed into what?

    The more centers and the more parts of centers you use, the better the
    psychological method. It means using all the powers you have. Logical
    method means the use of only the mechanical part of the intellectual
    center. (Page 387.)

    Each center and each part of each center is designed to provide specific
    information about the world around us. The more attention and the more
    parts of centers we use, the more experience we have of the world,
    including our internal world. Each part only provides a part of the truth
    — an angle on the
    truth — but together, they provide more and better information. Therefore,
    one’s experience is more real.

    E. Maybe you would be willing to explain why life in the fellowship has
    reduced itself to people working outside to make money for it, people
    working inside to make things pretty for Robert and talking, talking,
    talking from Robert, you and Asaf, while the others listen, listen, listen.
    Why is there really no other participation?

    Another important aspect of this particular angle is that, while
    psychological thinking requires using all the powers that one has, it
    doesn’t require the acquisition of anything new. We have within us
    everything that we need; we just need to learn how to use it.

    E. This is even more strange. First you say that psychological thinking
    parts from the third or fourth state of consciousness and now you say that
    it doesn’t require the “acquisition of anything new”. What’s going on with
    you Girard. How much have you lost even your reasoning?

    Finally, what Mr. Ouspensky is describing as psychological thinking is very
    similar to the experience of higher centers. Thus, the practice of
    psychological thinking prepares, or trains, the four lower centers for the
    manifestation of higher centers. For example, when higher emotional center
    manifests, it sees connections between things, but if the four lower
    centers have never practiced looking at the world this way, they will
    simply have a lot of opposite ‘I’s — things can’t be connected this way,
    this is crazy, and so on — and of course this immediately breaks the
    connection to higher centers.

    What is necessary [for psychological thinking] is simple thinking, but not
    the narrow ordinary thinking. Logical thinking is narrow, but
    psychological thinking is broader thinking, comparing not two things but
    maybe as many as five. Logical thinking always deals with two. One must be
    true, another false. For the psychological method it is not necessarily so,
    both may be wrong, or both may be right.… Logically they [may] contradict
    one another, but from the point of view of the psychological method they
    complement one another. (The Fourth Way, page 389.)

    The Fourth Way was compiled after Mr. Ouspensky’s death from transcripts of
    meetings he had led, so he did not have a chance to review what he had
    said. In this case, by saying “both may be wrong, or both may be right,”
    he let a little logical thinking slip into his presentation. Actually,
    both things — and in fact all the things which one happens to be thinking
    about — are partly right and partly wrong. They are all incomplete; they
    are angles. With psychological thinking, one simply asks oneself what is
    right about an idea. In this context, there is another angle from Mr.
    Ouspensky:

    The human mind cannot invent anything absolutely wrong. The normal mind,
    working freely and not tied to some presupposed truth, always arrives at
    some kind of truth. (Page 389.)

    Psychological thinking tries to find that truth, and then it can compare
    the truths in various angles to determine which are more useful or more
    appropriate to the circumstances of the moment. Moreover, the question is
    not whether an idea is best in some large, universal sense; the question
    is, is it the idea which I need in this moment? Is it true for the world —
    the reality — in which I am living? In other words, the comparison is not
    abstract and philosophical; instead, it is practical and psychological.

    Logical thinking almost always starts by trying to find out what is wrong
    with an idea — and of course this prevents any real understanding, because
    how can you understand an idea by thinking about what is wrong with it, or
    thinking about all the cases to which it doesn’t apply? On the other hand,
    psychological thinking is very positive, very affirming. This connects to
    Mr. Ouspensky’s angle in A Further Record that the negative half of the
    intellectual center, like the negative half of the emotional center, is
    not needed.3 Instead, with psychological thinking one can think about what
    is good about ideas, people, or events, and then if one needs to compare
    things, one is able to compare the good rather than comparing limitations
    and weaknesses. Instead of looking at the ways in which various angles
    contradict one another, one tries to understand how they complement one
    another and thereby provide a more rounded and complete understanding.
    Indeed, from the point of view of psychological thinking, contradiction is
    an illusion which merely serves to point out the limitations of the logical
    mind. After all, how can something which is whole and complete, such as the
    universe, contradict itself?

    Allow me to question you since in the fellowship no one does so because no one is allowed to speak. Your reasoning is so obviously marked by your desperate need to justify Robert’s world that it hinges with lunatic to a not small degree. You’ve been in this role for so long you cannot even see the madness of your exposition. How many of us will it take for you to listen to yourself? Of course, in the fellowship they think they do you a favor not telling you or discussing this things with you. They know something has gone stray a long time ago but keep using you to continue making money from all those who love you.

    E. First, Ouspensky is speaking about the normal mind which is capable of arriving to some kind of truth but you twist or adapt that to your idea of psychological thinking and adapting it to what is more appropriate to the circumstances of the moment.

    LISTEN TO YOURSELF:

    THE QUESTION IS NOT WHETHER AN IDEA IS BEST IN SOME LARGE, UNIVERSAL
    SENSE; THE QUESTION IS, IS IT THE IDEA WHICH I NEED IN THIS MOMENT? IS IT
    TRUE FOR THE WORLD -THE REALITY- IN WHICH I AM LIVING?

    but what you’re really addressing is the whole situation of the fellowship. You’re asking students not to measure the fellowship with large universal truths but to adapt the universal truths to their immediate reality and accept it because otherwise they are acting from the logical mind, the second state, the lower self, the instinctive center.

    You have been doing this for an innumerable number of years and it has, to any one’s great surprise, worked. But it is not very difficult for something to “work”, when no one can question it. It has worked because you have used the authority given to you by Robert in his prediction that you would become conscious, your own mechanics and apparent self control and dominance and worst of all, you have used the naivete of all those of us that believed in Robert and loved you to tell us that we are not conscious enough to understand Robert, that we cannot use or trust our selves to judge him, that we are not equipped with enough understanding to know what is best for us and the community we pay to live in.

    The rest of your text says the same things with other examples. If you don’t have the consciousness you can’t understand it so keep paying. I am ashamed. Ashamed of the amount of stupidity that you manage to convey in such a short piece of work and ashamed and sorry for you for the fact that you have come to convince yourself that you are sincere with so much crap. You might hate me and never send me your work again but I happen to be one of the very few people that care enough for you to not allow this absurdity to go on unquestioned.


  350. There can be little humor in a battlefield, but I am very glad some of you are not so wounded.


  351. Elena (around) 353

    PSYCHOLOGICAL THINKING
    BY GIRARD HAVEN
    Based on a Meeting in Mexico City, June 18, 2007
    With Additional Angles from a Dinner at the Galleria, March 6, 2007

    In this meeting, we will reverse Mr. Ouspensky’s approach.

    ****************

    This has always been the problem with Girard’s distortion of the work, his formatory reversal of the teaching. The problem with reversing this teaching is that rather than it resulting in a conscious man it results in an institutionalized buffoon.

    Girard is a paid propaganda minister in the Fellowship of Friends, his job is to reduce powerful psychological ideas down to manipulative nonsense that will neutralize the native intelligence of the membership and help continue to secure his and Burton’s income.


  352. on September 6, 2007 at 8:39 pm Bistro Fundraiser

    About Girard’s statements… In a recent trip to a modern-art museum, I noticed an exhibition by one artist who expressed himself by displaying very large canvases that were completely white, or even “blank”, depending on how you look at it.

    Seriously, I think his “blank canvas” expressed something more substantial than one paragraph from Girard shown above. Similar to the artist who prepared the white canvas, Girard obviously devoted a certain amount of time to his long essay. But in the end, what was he saying? What is he saying?

    I get the impression he’s saying the following:

    “If I string together a large number of ‘work words’ in a semi-coherent way, and act as though they are providing a strong defense for Robert’s increasing insanity, then people will read it and be impressed by the large number of ‘work words’ strung together in a semi-coherent way, and therefore believe that I am expressing something substantial.”

    Please, Girard, Robert, anyone… Say something new and something truthful. Say something honest and from your heart. Is there a heart in there somewhere? Then stand up and say, “Something is wrong here. I’m so sorry. I let all of you down by not saying something sooner.”

    Otherwise, I’m afraid Greg’s analysis is completely correct… “a paid propaganda minister of the Fellowship of Friends.”


  353. on September 6, 2007 at 8:40 pm Way.of.the.Slow.Man

    Freedom and Consciousness

    When I left the FOF, one of the reasons was inconsistent action – FOF claiming “Fourth Way” but actually withdrawing from the world and teaching we were special and blessed. We were effectively creating an exclusive membership who were apart from this world, not a part of this world. This attitude led to a lack of respect for others, the capability to be cruel and take advantage of ‘life people’.

    None of these attitudes or actions seemed to result in an increase in frequency or depth of consciousness.

    My working hypothesis of consciousness is that it is accompanied by a decrease in possible actions available, the ‘correct actions’. The more one gains higher capabilities, objectiveness and understanding, the fewer options for action exist. A conscious being would not be cruel, steal from others and perform other predatory actions.

    A cock-sucking, predatory-conscious-being would not exist.

    If Just-Plain-Bob’s sexual actions resulted in dozens (hundreds?) of conscious students it would be a teaching method, not self-gratification. But the results are not consciousness.

    FOF and J-P-B teach by example that you can master your ‘lower centers’, feminine dominance, become ‘present’ and then can justify and do anything you want.

    I think differently–the more conscious one becomes, the fewer (right) actions are available.


  354. DEVIL’S DICTIONARY

    Psychological Thinking:

    Suspending utter disbelief in order to swallow unimaginable bullshit.


  355. after reading the truly uplifting and awe inspiring responses to # 319 above, i have to join ‘my2bits’ in thanks.

    i hope the following personal anecdote doesn’t bring things down… this statement from # 349 jogged a memory and i would like to share it here, first the quote from KA:

    “I did not really leave a teacher because that is not how I related to the fof or what I thought a school was. For me, it was the others, the members. Personally, inner work has always been private and ongoing, and the notion of school was for a group experience…”

    i hesitate to admit, but i think i can here… many moons ago, i was one of “the teacher’s” ‘beauties’ as it was put by another blogger… believe me, this is no attempt at self-flattery… as one of these ‘beauties’ i was ‘privileged’ to spend one-to-one time with this creature called “the teacher.” when i asked a question of him concerning ‘the work,’ the response was, “why don’t you research that dear” (and get back to me on it later). i suppose there are a lot of ‘teaching styles’ and if i reflect back, i probably did learn something through personal inquiry. but the general impression i got from his response was that he didn’t want to bother, or didn’t have a pat and ready answer and that he was ‘putting me off.’ when i left the fof, i had no qualms about leaving “the teacher” he was in fact the reason for leaving, the members were the only thing that mattered there to me, the friendships, loved ones, and sense of community is what kept me there, longer than i should have stayed.

    the ‘fof experience’ (for me) in retrospect is all about ‘the others’ the community, that was what i lost when i left, not ‘a teacher’, not ‘the inner work,’ it was loss of community that was most devastating. for me, ‘communion’ (community) is at the heart of what this site is all about. 2bits, you have decided to leave, i commend you on your courage and know that you have the support of friends here.


  356. on September 6, 2007 at 8:41 pm Bistro Fundraiser

    Thanks for sharing with us, Elena.


  357. on September 6, 2007 at 8:56 pm Bistro Fundraiser

    Way.of.the.Slow.Man (vicinity of 357): “I think differently–the more conscious one becomes, the fewer (right) actions are available.”

    That is VERY well stated. And imo, extremely important.

    The words “responsibility” and “accountability” have gone missing-in-action in the fof — for some, anyway.


  358. on September 6, 2007 at 9:02 pm wake up little suzy wake up

    #343. Wonderful post. Thank you!


  359. on September 6, 2007 at 9:20 pm Old Fish In The Sea

    Many Thanks to those of you that offered me encouragement. My heart is warmed.

    Old Fish


  360. Re: Girard’s article 20/353 (thanks Elena):

    My God, what a load of unverifiable, faith-based manipulative crap!

    This is for all those who are still barely staying in the FoF, mostly because of Girard:

    Question everything for yourself! Don’t run to Girard for consolation when Robert seems crazy! Girard is being paid to be Robert’s apologist, and his livelihood depends on it! His truth comes with an agenda! Don’t make yourself believe him just because he’s Girard! Wake up! What happened to you?

    Why do you believe that Ouspensky was a conscious being? Have you verified that his ideas are objectively correct? Why do you believe that Girard is drawing a valid parallel with Robert’s “teaching”? Do you really understand what Ouspensky meant by “psychological thinking”? Do you see where Ouspensky’s interpretation of “psychological thinking” stops and where Girard picks it up and runs with it, while you are still believing it is what Ouspensky said? And even more importantly, how much of what he is saying have you personally verified to be true? Why do you not trust yourself to know anything without prior approval? Why do you wait for higher-ups to tell you what is true? Why do you believe that Robert Burton is in permanent “third/fourth state of consciousness”? Why do you believe that you will eventually be in permanent third/fourth state of consciousness if you do the sequence? And what does Girard mean, “from one angle” Robert’s teaching is psychological? Is this another one of his intentionally chosen attitudes that happen to be useful in the moment? So from another angle, Robert’s teaching is not the psychological method? Or is Girard only using the phrase “from one angle” to avoid suspicion of absolute statements, to appear that he has relativity, when in fact it is patently obvious that he will not consider any other “angle”?

    Addendum to Devil’s Dictionary: psychological thinking = voluntary brainwashing.


  361. 351 hardlyanafterthought

    Yes, I’ve thought many times that since I didn’t have a Catholic upbringing, for some reason I needed its equivalent — the FOF. I’ve spent the last 25 years or so learning how to enjoy my life again. Still working at it, but getting there…


  362. Dear Traveller,
    Perfect!

    And thank you, Elena, for bringing this to our attention, and for your detailed rebuttal. Girard is certainly a master of fixing the facts to suit the policy, of backing in to the pre–ordained result!

    Love to you all,
    Ames


  363. 355/356/364 Graduates/BistroFundraiser/Traveller.

    Yes, you guys got it just right.

    Girard used to be a hero for me (he was my center director when I joined) and I maintained a friendship with him till I left. It seemed to me by that time that he had almost completely lost touch with reality. The saddest part of it all is that in private conversation it becomes perceptible that even he doesn’t believe most of the crap he talks! Or more accurately, there is a small, buried part of him that doesn’t believe it.

    Traveller: “Don’t run to Girard for consolation when Robert seems crazy!” I did that for a couple of years – if any current students are reading this, please don’t follow my example!


  364. on September 6, 2007 at 11:27 pm Bistro Fundraiser

    Award-winning Yuba County Winery Also Serves as a Cult

    Sacramento Bee/August 17, 2002
    By Stefanie Frith

    Oregon House, Calif. — Tucked away in the Yuba County countryside lies a winery that produces award-winning wines that have been served at a birthday party for Ronald Reagan and at numerous restaurants, such as the Ritz-Carlton in San Francisco.

    Admirers of the Renaissance Winery and Vineyards praise its ability to make what one critic called wines that “belong in every cellar” in the sometimes cold, sometimes brutally hot climate of Oregon House, where no other winery operates. But Renaissance, part of a community called the Fellowship of Friends, has problems beyond growing grapes.

    Called a cult by ex-members, neighbors and cult experts, the Fellowship has fought with county officials over taxes and been sued by former members. That, wine sellers said, makes it hard for Renaissance to promote its wines, because part of the art of selling wine means playing up a winery’s history.

    Renaissance’s story, however, is “too bizarre,” said Wilfred Wong, a San Francisco-based wine buyer. “While their quality is good, there are a lot of other wines out there and I just don’t want to work with a winery that has all that excess baggage.”

    Winery officials, who agreed only to a telephone interview and would not speak about the Fellowship, said they are trying to drop that “baggage” by experimenting with new wines and new labels. …

    They (the fof) are virtually unknown to their neighbors in Oregon House, a community of about 2,000 people hidden among thick trees and narrow roads. The winery sticks out in this area of mobile homes, deserted shacks and old pickup trucks, its entrance protected by a guard and lined with potted palm trees.

    “They are unlike you and me,” said SG, a retiree who lives near the winery, one of the few neighbors who were willing to speak about the Fellowship. “They are low key and are almost brain-dead. They are really on another level. It’s a cult. They don’t make decisions for themselves.”

    Yuba County officials have had disputes with the Fellowship, said county tax assessor David Brown. The group once sued the county unsuccessfully to get a tax exemption for its museum. They have also claimed they were a nonprofit organization, but the county proved them wrong and denied that request as well, Brown said.

    Until recently, the Fellowship also owed the county about $2 million in taxes, but they are currently on a payment plan to pay it back, said county supervisor Hal Stocker.

    Former members have sued Burton, claiming brainwashing and even sexual abuse, according to court records. In 1996, a former member sued for $5 million, claiming Burton had sexually exploited him at age 17. That suit was settled months later.

    The suit claimed the Fellowship was being used to further Burton’s “voracious appetite for perverted sexual pleasure and elegant lifestyle.” Burton is portrayed as a leader who considers himself “an angel in a man’s body” who communicates with up to 44 angels, including Benjamin Franklin and is second in spiritual power only to Jesus Christ, said former members and experts.

    Part of the Fellowship’s appeal, Hassan said, is that it presents an illusion of intellectuality to those who believe that Gurdjieff was an enlightened being.

    “Many people who he entranced thought he was incredible and magnetic and started their own groups, like Burton,” said Hassan. “And I have yet to find (a group) that is healthy.” …

    For the complete article, see http://gurdjieff.tribe.net/thread/1f5cbb77-e5a7-4954-ad95-c7ed40cb1c31


  365. on September 6, 2007 at 11:33 pm Bistro Fundraiser

    The following is an old web page titled:
    “Wacky News from the Wacky World of Wine”

    ————–

    YOU’VE HEARD OF “CULT WINES”:
    NOW THERE’S A “CULT WINERY”

    (OREGON HOUSE, CALIFORNIA. AUGUST 2002)
    Many collectors of California wines seek out those tiny production bottlings which have garnered high numerical scores. This category of wine has been dubbed “cult wines.”
    Now a California winery has given new meaning to this term.
    An Associated Press article says ex-members, neighbors and cult experts claim The Fellowship of Friends, owners of Yuba County’s “Renaissance Winery,” is a cult.

    Described as following “The Fourth Way” tradition of spiritual development at it’s winery/living quarters compound, Renaissance representatives are tight-lipped about the group’s activities.

    We first became aware of the winery many years ago. Not having tasted many wines worthy of purchase, we did place a call to the winery to inquire about their “fellowship.” Responses to our questions regarding their practices were evasive.

    The AP article, printed in the San Francisco Examiner on August 19, 2002, says former members of the group have sued the founder of the fellowship. They claim they were brainwashed and abused sexually. The article says one law suit, for $5 million, claiming the founder of the group sexually exploited a 17 year old, was settled out of court.

    The article contends the founder is portrayed as “an angel in a man’s body” and he communicates with up to 44 angels, including Benjamin Franklin.

    Maybe Ben ought to tell this fellow to go fly a kite!

    ————————————-


  366. Re: Elena, post #331

    ————-
    My two bits,
    What harmony is there in:
    “I seek harmony, in and out. So, get lost, you Thunderdome types!”

    The tone of your question reveals the programming of the “king of hearts” act that everyone is supposed to keep under control in the Fellowship so that the dissonances don’t start popping out of the bag.
    ————-

    Dear Elena,

    I just wanted to say that I did put a “smiley face” after my reference to ‘Thunderdome types’ in post #319. The reference was meant to be humorous (tongue-in-cheek) and not exclusionary.

    I have respect for the so-called “Thunderdome” bloggers, including yourself, who are using the medium of this blog to express pain, anger and hurt from their FoF experience, and who also may seek a degree of havoc, pay-back, revolution — not to mention a really wild motorcycle ride through the desert — as a response.

    My suspicion is that, at some point in the near future, my personal timidity and fear will wear off, and will morph into anger and the “wailing and nashing of teeth” as the next step in the ‘transformation’ of my own FoF experience.

    So, I send you love, Elena, with sincere wishes for eventual inner peace and resolution of the issues that plague you. Your postings help not only yourself, but others, so do be encouraged in this process.


  367. re: ‘ton’s post #359.

    Dear ‘ton,

    Thank you again for your personal observations and for your support of my decision to leave the FoF.

    More than ever, I feel the empathy and love of former students such as yourself. It is a great help, and I am most grateful! I can almost say that I’m excited!

    I’ve decided to write individual good-bye letters, and mail them all on the same day, as my official ‘good-bye’ communication.

    I plan write a letter to RB, as well, and will do my best to tell him, quite openly, why I am leaving now after 20+ years as his student.

    Perhaps I’ll also try to arrange a few intimate, face-to-face good-bye encounters with close friends in the few remaining few days as a member of this strange little community.

    It seems more important than ever to express myself now, as clearly as I am able, as part of The Art of Leaving.

    Warm regards, love and best wishes on your own Path, ‘ton, which according to Nisargadatta is “the eternal Guru.”


  368. Robert has learnt to transform the friction of international air travel.

    Love Malcolm

    Bob the well traveled old gay,
    has achieved the ultimate lay.
    he was screwed without quittin’
    from San Fran to Great Britain
    it is clear that he’s come a long way.


  369. 291, 330, 333 and 339 are newly moderated. I hope I didn’t miss any.

    I am and will be having one of the toughest and most time-consuming weeks of my life so bear with me while the moderation slows down a bit (ie. it will take longer to rescue posts from moderation and the spam filter).


  370. 319/my2bits

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit,_Voice,_and_Loyalty

    Sometimes it is appropriate to exit silently. Sometimes an unexplained exit is far more disturbing than an explained one.

    Good luck to you. Feel free to write me at veronicapoe@gmail.com.


  371. on September 7, 2007 at 2:14 am Way.of.the.Slow.Man

    376 Veroniquepoe
    Exit, Voice and Loyalty.

    Hmmm, perhaps the shareholder/members of the FOF can take charge and re-turn to a not-for-prophet organization.


  372. 369 Rhino Neal

    “Girard used to be a hero for me (he was my center director when I joined) and I maintained a friendship with him till I left. It seemed to me by that time that he had almost completely lost touch with reality.”

    That’s quite sad, and more than a little ironic, since the stated aim of the Fellowship is to live more intensely in reality.

    “The saddest part of it all is that in private conversation it becomes perceptible that even he doesn’t believe most of the crap he talks! Or more accurately, there is a small, buried part of him that doesn’t believe it.”

    This is the kind of realization that makes me the angriest. I was a very sincere student, painfully so, and it seemed inconceivable that those in the “inner circle” would not be completely forthright. Over the years, as I’ve learned about all the hypocrisy, it’s hard not to be at least a little bitter about the turmoil I put myself through. Not that I didn’t have some great experiences with friends there. And I did learn quite a bit about myself, some of it because of the FOF, some in spite of it. I suppose what I gained the most was an ability to trust myself — this definitely in spite of the FOF. Not to mention the ever-valuable, “won’t get fooled again…”


  373. 378 Innernaught

    Another interesting aspect of Girard’s character is that he was in some ways the “best” student. He gave up everything for Burton. He had/has tremendous willpower so could make enormous efforts to be present, keep exercises, go against mechanical (=natural) behaviour.

    One of his main themes was “changing attitudes”, meaning changing the way you habitually think so that you value presence more than anything else. Amongst many other strange things, this included persuading yourself to believe that Burton was conscious. According to Girard this is a good attitude, even if you can’t verify it, because it helps with obeying school exercises, which lead to presence. And so on. Using this method you can hypnotise yourself into believing almost anything, and you lose the abilty to think for yourself (“the’I’s are not real”).

    Girard stands as perhaps the best example of someone who followed Burton’s teaching to the ultimate degree.
    Personally I hope and pray he manages to throw off his self-imposed shackles sometime.


  374. 379 Rhino Neal

    Yes, I’ve said before, that I can’t quite get over Girard’s statement in one of his books, where he says that students are to Robert as a dog to its master.

    In terms of going against mechanical behavior, he should try saying “Ouspensky” instead of “Mr. Ouspensky” occasionally. Where did that come from? I remember imitating other students and saying Mr Ouspensky and Mr Gurdjieff from the time I joined in ’81, but I never had the nerve to ask why. We didn’t say “Mr. Bach” or “Mr Dante,” after all. Or maybe some students did. For some reason I did find the “Mr Ouspensky” thing quite irritating, truth be told. Very “twee.” (That’s for you, Arthur. ;-) )


  375. Thanks “Old Fish in the Sea” for #345 and especially this:

    “It is wonderful to be free from supporting debauchery, illegal activities and imaginary superiority that over time separate us from human kind and lead to failure.”


  376. “Suspending utter disbelief in order to swallow unimaginable bullshit.”

    Thanks. This has been my reaction to Girard’s teaching from the beginning. I kept it to myself though because for years I thought it was probably just my own limitation that caused me to experience it this way.


  377. To my2bits:

    I would like to suggest that you consider speaking your truth out loud at one of the weekly meetings before you leave if that is still a possiblity. It can have a powerful, reverberating result if done with sincerity and conviction. The truth can’t be disputed if spoken clearly and simply. It trumps fear and power and can open doors for others who may not read letters or the blog. You might need to think it through carefully beforehand to be sure to say exactly what you intend.

    When the decision to leave is clear and strong it creates an energy of empowerment that is very special. I felt untouchable by the negative aspects of the FOF once that decision had become clear – I still do.


  378. I gave myself the task of reading Girard’s excerpts posted by Elena at # 355. The experience resulted in a slight headache and mild stomach discomfort. What a beautiful example of the human mind once again pouring from the empty into the void!


  379. Skeleton Woman – A Tale of the Inuit

    She had done something of which her father disapproved, although no one any longer remembered what it was. But her father had dragged her to the cliffs and thrown her over and into the sea. There, the fish ate her flesh away and plucked out her eyes. As she lay under the sea, her skeleton turned over and over in the currents.

    One day a fisherman came fishing, well, in truth many came to this bay once. But this fisherman had drifted far from his home place and did not know that the local fisherman stayed away, saying this inlet was haunted.

    The fisherman’s hook drifted down through the water, and caught of all places, in the bones of Skeleton Woman’s rib cage. The fisherman thought, “Oh, now I’ve really got a big one! Now I really have one!” In his mind he was thinking of how many people this great fish would feed, how long it would last, how long he might be free from the chore of hunting. And as he struggled with this great weight on the end of the hook, the sea was stirred to a thrashing froth, and his kayak bucked and shook, for she who was beneath struggled to disentangle herself. And the more she struggled, the more she tangled in the line. No matter what she did, she was inexorably dragged upward, tugged up by the bones of her own ribs.

    The hunter had turned to scoop up his net, so he did not see her bald head rise above the waves, he did not see the little coral creatures glinting in the orbs of her skull, he did not see the crustaceans on her old ivory teeth. When he turned back with his net, her entire body, such as it was, had come to the surface and was hanging from the tip of his kayak by her long front teeth.

    “Agh!” cried the man, and his heart fell into his knees, his eyes hid in terror on the back of his head, and his ears blazed bright red. “Agh!” he screamed, and knocked her off the prow with his oar and began paddling like a demon toward shoreline. And not realizing she was tangled in his line, he was frightened all the more for she appeared to stand upon her toes while chasing him all the way to shore. No matter which way he zigged his kayak, she stayed right behind, and her breath rolled over the water in clouds of steam, and her arms flailed out as though to snatch him down into the depths.

    “Agh!” he wailed as he ran aground. In one leap he was out of his kayak, clutching his fishing stick and running, and the coral white corpse of skeleton woman, still snagged in the fishing line, bumpety-bumped behind right after him. Over the rocks he ran, and she followed. Over the frozen tundra he ran, and she kept right up. Over the meat laid out to dry he ran, cracking it to pieces as his mukluks bore down.

    Throughout it all she kept right up, in fact, she grabbed some of the frozen fish as she was dragged behind. This she began to eat, for she had not gorged in a long, long time. Finally, the man reached his snowhouse and dove right into the tunnel and on hands and knees scrabbled his way into the interior. Panting and sobbing he lay there in the dark, his heart a drum, a mighty drum. Safe at last, oh so safe, yes, safe thank the Gods, Raven, yes, thank Raven, yes, and all bountiful Sedna, safe… at…last.

    Imagine when he lit his whale oil lamp, there she – it – lay in a tumble upon his snow floor, one heel over her shoulder, one knee inside her rib cage, one foot over her elbow. He could not say later what it was, perhaps the firelight softened her features, or the fact that he was a lonely man… but a feeling of some kindness came into his breathing, and slowly he reached out his grimy hands and using words softly like a mother to child, began to untangle her from the fishing line.

    “Oh, na, na, na.” First he untangled the toes, then the ankles. “Oh, na, na, na.” On and on he worked into the night, until dressing her in furs to keep her warm, Skeleton Woman’s bones were all in the order a human’s should be.

    He felt into his leather cuffs for his flint and used some of his hair to light a little more fire. He gazed at her from time to time as he oiled the precious wood of his fishing stick and rewound the gut line. And she in the furs uttered not a word – she did not dare – lest this hunter take her out and throw her down to the rocks and break her bones to pieces utterly.

    The man became drowsy, slid under his sleeping skins, and soon was dreaming. And sometimes as humans sleep, you know, a tear escapes from the dreamer’s eye; we never know what sort of dream causes this, but we know it is either a dream of sadness or longing. And this is what happened to the man.

    Skeleton Woman saw the tear glisten in the firelight and she became suddenly soooo thirsty. She tinkled and clanked and crawled over to the sleeping man and put her mouth to his tear. The single tear was like a river and she drank and drank and drank until her many-years-long thirst was slaked.

    While lying beside him, she reached inside the sleeping man and took out his heart, the mighty drum. She sat up and banged on both sides of it: Bom Bomm!…..Bom Bomm!

    As she drummed, she began to sing out “Flesh, flesh, flesh! Flesh, Flesh, Flesh!” And the more she sang, the more her body filled out with flesh. She sang for hair and good eyes and nice fat hands. She sang the divide between her legs, and breasts long enough to wrap for warmth, and all the things a woman needs.

    And when she was all done, she also sang the sleeping man’s clothes off and crept into his bed with him, skin against skin. She returned the great drum, his heart, to his body, and that is how they awakened, wrapped one around the other, tangled from their night, in another way now, a good and lasting way.

    The people who cannot remember how she came to her first ill fortune say she and the fisherman went away and were consistently well fed by the creatures she had known in her life under water. The people say that it is true and that is all they know.

    From Clarissa Pinkola Estes, Women who run with the wolves


  380. Thanks again Laura.


  381. 373 my2bits: “best wishes on your own Path, which according to Nisargadatta is ‘the eternal Guru’.”

    That seems exactly right. There really is no such thing as a spiritual teacher in the sense of a person who is more spiritually advanced than others, on a higher level of being, or whatever. At a deep level our consciousness is all the same. So beware of anyone who asks for money (or sex) because he is more spiritually advanced than you.

    The idea that Burton (or anyone else) is a man number 7.5, similar to Jesus, that his students are men number 4, and “life people” are men 1/2/3, sleeping machines, is repugnant and just plain stupid. Just look around and it’s easy to see this is quite mad.

    While there are no spiritual teachers in this sense, at least in my experience, in another sense there are many spiritual teachers. I learned much from FoF students through my time there. There was no sense of superiority or condescension. No money changed hands – they shared their experiences from a wish to be helpful.

    In fact I can learn from anyone on the planet, from Adyashanti to the UPS man, and also from plants, animals, the wind.

    cheers, CT


  382. 355 Elena

    thank you for sharing Girard’s essay. Good practice for “brain mussles!” One thing I found confusing is that he mixes a logical thinking with a critical thinking together. I think Plato would be thrilled to find more weak spots in his developments… but I am not Plato :(

    Can anybody help me to formulate a difference between a logical thinking (or a good reasoning) and a critical thinking (negative attitude)?


  383. “I would simply construct an argument that would get me where the king of hearts knew I wanted to go”

    This phrase says it all… This time his “king of hearts” (or whatever) wanted to go ahead and tell the students that they are using their “logical mind-lower self” and therefore don’t understand what the heck Robert is talking about.

    “Robert’s teaching during the past few years, especially in its application to esoteric quotations and images, has been a demonstration of the psychological method, and many of the difficulties which students have been having with that teaching can be seen as stemming from their use of logical thinking — that is, our ordinary method of thinking — rather than psychological thinking when trying to understand it.”

    I find his argument weak. He does not explain HOW to apply psychological thinking to Robert’s teaching. How to see inner meaning-connectedness-broader reality etc. in his interpretations and statements. If I stay at the meeting and think of Robert as “mostly empty space with a few atoms circulating in it” or “having a sense of all the people who have used it, where it has been used, where it was made, where it came from, and so on” it would be a psychological thinking but it does not help understanding of the “teaching”


  384. on September 7, 2007 at 11:14 pm Skeptical Optimist

    344 Traveler
    345 Old Fish In The Sea

    Thank you both for wonderful expressions, well thought out and heartfelt. Just perfect.

    385 Laura

    I gave myself the task of reading Girard’s excerpts posted by Elena at # 355. The experience resulted in a slight headache and mild stomach discomfort.

    I gave myself permission to skip #355, and I’m feeling better already!

    319 my2bits

    You are very brave. The sooner you leave the better, in my opinion. Many people have advised you depart in whatever way seems best, and I would agree. Speaking out at a meeting would be exciting. Writing individual letters sounds like a lot of work, but might be fun for you.

    I like this from Traveler:

    One of the things you may come to see after you leave, is that this decision on whether I should leave and how to leave and when to leave is only a big issue from the inside. Once you are out, you see that nothing really happened.

    Because I had spoken, taught, and represented the FoF so much in my time, I felt obligated to communicate something. I wrote a very brief letter to about 100 people letting them know that I had been mistaken about the FoF and that if I had encouraged them to participate more fully in the FoF, that I would no longer do so.

    I had planned to write a longer letter detailing my thought process on the FoF, but it was not to be. The day after I mailed my letters Anthony Goeree showed up at my door and hand delivered a letter from Abe Goldman threatening me with all kinds of legal action, since I was Burton’s publisher.

    Leaving was a very energizing, positive, freeing, ecstatic experience. The many years of work, doubt, self-questioning and struggle to understand the underlying structures within myself that left me vulnerable to the group would come later.

    One of the best exercises is to try to really see the FoF, Burton, the other members, the whole thing, as nothing special, just another cult, no different really than the UFO people, the People’s Temple, any of them. The extent to which I could see this, in the early days, seemed to me the extent to which I had freed myself of the “program.”

    Truly, my opinion is now that we leave nothing behind at all when we leave the FoF. The feelings you have for the people you love cannot be left anywhere, they go with you, along with the residue of all those experiences. Be well, do nice things for yourself, find some joy, and good luck.

    JoelF


  385. Many sincere efforts go into gathering new esoteric knowledge.

    Love Malcolm

    There was a sincere lady student from Peru,
    part of the esoteric keying crew,
    She sat spread on the stairs
    And counted her pubic hairs,
    Four thousand, six hundred and two


  386. 319 my2bits

    Hallo (wo)man,

    You know, what enslaves us?
    The wish to be understood by others.

    You are not leaving anything, you are not walking out. You stay where you have always been – with yourself. You simply release them out of your life.

    You don’t have to say a thing to anybody, you don’t own an explanation to anybody.

    Release them – and give yourself a break for 6 months or so. Wake up early every morning – at 4 or so – give your self a few ‘golden hours’ before you start your working day.

    Verify for yourself that you don’t need them at all – and that in fact it is much better like this. That everything becomes pure and clear again. That your not confused anymore but know exactly what to do.

    Thank God that you are not an older student anymore –
    but just a simple (wo)man – a beginner.

    “Have you discovered, then, the beginning,
    that you look for the end?
    For where the beginning is, there will the end be.
    Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning;
    he will know the end and will not experience death.”

    Maybe then after a few months if you still think it is important.. talk to them

    This way or any other way, free yourself

    For now goodbye,

    Peter


  387. Dear Blog-Friends,

    Your comments and advice have been washing over me like a “Maytag.” (That’s what whitewater rafters call a current vortex in a river that sucks you in and won’t let you go — it just dunks you again and again into cycle after cycle of the wash… So, better hold your breath!!!)

    In the mean time, I’ve been communicating with anonymous and very kind people (students, ex-students — who knows?) who freely offer various forms of solace and guidance. This is/was completely unexpected for me, and is most welcome as I am tumbling, tumbling, gasping for air, caught as I am in this “Maytag” of leaving…

    It occurred to me that these most recent experiences may actually be part of a kind of ‘underground railroad’ which can lead one, gently, out of the Fellowship and into a new life.

    Inadvertently, I may have come in contact with this ‘underground railroad!’ I can’t tell you all how grateful I am! Or, maybe it’s Influence C!… :-)) We know not to argue if the life-preserver is round, square, or rectangular, don’t we!

    OK, the ‘railroad’ idea is most certainly a product of my own fertile imagination, but who knows?…. It may exist! But don’t believe!! Never believe…

    The subtle, yet definite, support that I have received over these last days empowers me, and should empower you, too, all you lurkers here in this blog! Have courage!

    I no longer am sure about the wisdom of sending a barrage of explanatory letters to dear FoF friends, and to the ‘teacher’ to explain myself as I depart. It’s too easy to just let this be a convenient way to unload a lot of negativity…

    There is a simple elegance to silence — something we all know, intuitively, as a powerful form of expression that can stand firm in the face of overwhelming complexity and the urge to debate. Presence. Silence. More presence… This never goes away.

    So, maybe spilling one’s guts is not the best way to leave… Very messy, indeed, and perhaps destructive. Not for me.

    Love to you all, from my2bits. I’m moving on now.

    “I did it myyyyy way….!” (F. Sinatra)


  388. 394

    On the other hand, you have no obligation to explain your life or decisions to anyone. In fact, in my opinion, your decision making is that much stronger and surer when you keep your reasons to yourself. People who are not already “there” won’t see it, and it’s a waste of your energy, and those who are truly close to you will most likely already understand. What you might do is give yourself an exercise to not justify or give reasons or apologize. Your real friends will still be your friends. Those who aren’t, won’t. One moves on the same way one moved “in”. Besides maybe they’ll build a whole myth around you (half kidding).
    Knowing what you know, it’s futile and worthless to explain yourself to RB. He doesn’t give a shit except for the money. It’s as simple as that. You don’t owe him anything because you already paid for it.


  389. Some people might do it like you mention Peter but I won’t. When I feel I’ve finished, I’ll move on and probably never come back. We each have our way and our timing and I don’t mind if you read others instead. What I would suggest to you is not to be afraid to call my name when you speak to me. This is the second time that you avoid it. Is it that difficult for you? I can’t bite you dear, it’s only a computer. I do thank you for calling me woman, I’m beginning to feel like one.

    True that a great deal of the fuel is to those who could have helped and didn’t. They probably weren’t helped either. But I won’t give them my compassion until they are willing to look at the pain they cause. Everybody runs from the pain they cause to others. Blame them for being so stupid. Not like little children that start crying with whomever they hit so ashamed of having hurt them.

    Ah yes, I will stop yelling when I remember that they have not once been considered either. That they run like hungry lions in search of themselves to please the master killing every thing around them for a smile of approval. They, the saturn mars self addicted to believing that they were better than the rest convinced that in that hierarchy of being they would be able to hide the horror of their beinglessness. How long did it take you to build the indestructible saturn mars suit of being the highest in the hierarchy of machines and adorned it with the conscious act of never feeling anything so that you would not show any of your identifications? Not the pain of leaving the children, or the pain of leaving the friends, the wives, the husbands, the one sweet ‘I’ that would have touched me if only you had not amputated the connection to your heart. How long did it take you to learn to walk with friends without wanting to get to know them and fixed them in the scale of one more “idiot with the pretense of becoming conscious”. One more solar to despise for pretending to still want something you know you sold your soul for. No, not the consciousness, but the institutionalized consciousness of Robert’s Harem.

    I will apologize to many of you for not writing to you, surely you feel priviledged, but not to others. They know who they are like I know who Peter’s post is for. Everyone writes for someone but mostly for their imaginary picture.

    The same with Girard. Nothing much to say because he’s been writing letters for thirty years but never has time for anybody. It is so easy to love on paper.

    Everyone chooses their fixation. The inner circle loves Robert so that they don’t have to love each other or any body else; Robert loves the boys so that he can avoid loving the student;everybody loves great ideals so that they don’t have to love the practical world. Saints in theory but sex maniacs in practice.

    Love. How much love wasted on love.


  390. Dear my two bits,

    Don’t blame yourself for being terrified of talking your heart out. But when you leave, don’t blame yourself for not having talked your heart out, like I do.

    That is what you’ve been indoctrinated not to do for twenty years with the excuse that you’re expressing negativity, that you’re not in the King of Hearts, that it is not the right action. I will not blame you for leaving as you can.


  391. To Bruce, post #395.

    Dear Bruce,

    Thanks for your words, and for your consistent support. I hear you, my friend, especially with regard to your admonitions about the ability to have meaningful communications with RB.

    Hasta la Vista!


  392. 366/ traveller

    Well it’s so much easier to criticize than to offer something oneself. All you have done in this post is criticize. Now, how about something better than Girard, let’s see how you have something better to offer, betcha don’t got nothin’!


  393. 307/ aimless gilbert


  394. 399 & 400 just mean


  395. 307/ aims gilbert

    reading this post it saddened me, having known you, that you seem to be siding with authority figures, the law in this post. Or is that a by product of your no-holds-barred stance in relation to Asaf and his recent play. I mean, do you willingly venture into seeming support for the most asleep,most dead authority figures as a byproduct of your vitriole against 2 young, foolish people who from my observation are quite sincere in their affections? Are not Shakespeare plays full of this sort of mischief? Is not history filled with non-compliance with the rules of the walking dead as a means to a more noble end? Oh Ames, tell me it’s not true… tell me there’s still a spark of the free life in you. Or that you can understand that good people still exist in the FoF, just as you once did?


  396. 401/ zeena
    just mean just average just nice just being


  397. #402 just me
    I am not going to try to speak for Ames, I leave that to him. For myself, I find my sympathies not with the authorities, but for the young bride. I feel she was failed by her husband, her parents, and her community. They all knew she was being put in a very illegal situation, it was common knowledge, even here on the blog. Why couldn’t an alternative situation have been encouraged so the lovers could be together without entering into an illegal marriage? I find the whole situation criminal though more in a moral than a legal sense.


  398. elana, re:# 355
    i read most of this post, and it was ‘a task’ in the sense that it wasn’t easy to stomach… needless to say, your interjections into the monologue were the best part for me… god! it’s been so many years since i’ve attended a meeting… i hate to sound insensitive to those unfortunates still bound-up in that fof web, but speaking for myself, i have to say what a blessing it is not to be subjected to the numbing ‘mind-fuck’ that still goes on there. i would agree with another blogger that the gf website is the real fellowship of friends and postings such as yours here (for me) represents another ‘drop of water into the stream that helps to dissolve the structure and strictures of a scam that’s been perpetrated and perpetuated for too long.

    Again, at the risk of sounding too facile, the verbal ‘tap-dancing’ in #355 is more ‘mind-control’ by the agent / speaker, it is an attempt to build up the alter / pedestal upon which “you- -know-who” reposes as he continues to milk the unsuspecting, sleeping and hypnotized individuals who are drawn to him. from my perspective, from the ‘outside,’ the monologue in #355 appears to be ‘another brick in the wall’ that separates ‘the chosen few’ from the rest of humanity. it’s sad.

    there is more actualized (real) ‘psychological thinking’ in a single sentence in some of the posts on this blog page, than there is in the entire monologue of 355…. old fish #345 is an example… and #25 laura goes to ‘archetypal levels’ even deeper than so called ‘psychological thinking.’

    re: #401 just me
    i would echo xena in saying
    that’s just mean…
    in the past few days it seems like the blog has moved a bit away from personal attacks… we can and do, disagree about the ideas expressed here… but i suggest expressing disagreement can be more productive without knee-jerk reactions and name-calling. (?) but that’s just me…

    love


  399. on September 8, 2007 at 2:55 pm wake up little suzy wake up

    Regarding AP and Asaf, I think it’s a very sad story so far and wish them the best in what sounds like a difficult situation to deal with, especially for AP’s parents and AP and Asaf.

    In reading back a few, Xena sent a link to critical thinking. I went into wikipedia and read it. That seems to have been lacking here for all involved. Which goes back to how much confusion there seems to be within ones own mind most of the time while in the Fellowship. Being a parent myself I find it difficult to imagine parents not being a bit more careful in allowing this to happen.

    If it were me in this situation and I had a child unable to come back to the US (is this true?) or looking at possible jail time, I’d be so stressed out right now and in pain at what I had had a part in I’d be beside myself.

    I wish only the best for the families. I’ve done things in my past that were illegal. Huge lessons for me. This one seems very big. I can only hope it can be worked out. Again, part of the difficulty of being in an organization that is not teaching one ‘critical thinking’ but how to be more and more confused. Wake up people!


  400. Robert says he has a female soul.

    Love Malcolm

    Said Bob, in an insightful mood
    viewing himself in the mirror nude,
    “I wish I were of the sex
    that’s concave not convex
    to fit better with things that protrude.”


  401. on September 8, 2007 at 3:35 pm wake up little suzy wake up

    #409

    Your limericks are not usually things I enjoy but this one is truly a masterpiece!


  402. Re: 20/400/just me

    366/ traveller Well it’s so much easier to criticize than to offer something oneself. All you have done in this post is criticize. Now, how about something better than Girard, let’s see how you have something better to offer, betcha don’t got nothin’!

    You’re quite right. I have nothing to offer, and would not attempt to outdo Girard in the intricacy of his explanations. I’m inviting those who can to drop the entire construct and start doing their own thinking.


  403. #409 Daily Card
    I enjoyed this too, but I believe it’s the convex that would fit into the things that protrude.


  404. “Well it’s so much easier to criticize than to offer something oneself. All you have done in this post is criticize. Now, how about something better than Girard, let’s see how you have something better to offer, betcha don’t got nothin’!”

    Oh Just Me, don’t just leave us there. Tell me what is so good about Girard?

    That he’s spent thirty five years protecting a man who said he was the second conscious being on this planet of six billion dead people? Wouldn’t you?

    That he was so seduced by the role that he overlooked the man that sentenced him to protect him?

    That he stepped on no matter who to keep himself and Robert as the only two people in the world worth listening to?

    That he, like Robert, has to watch porno to get a feeling of his own hidrogen twelve because they’ve withdrawn it from any other interaction with people?

    That that inner place of higher states is spent hitting himself on the head because the computer doesn’t do what it wants it to do? Or the car doesn’t wash as clean as he’d like it?

    That he can’t spend more than two minutes with you unless he’s lecturing you, withoug looking at the watch to remind you that his time is counted?

    That he has not given a sincere smile or a laugh in thirty five years because he lost the ability to experience joy?

    That he works and does not know the value of his work?

    That he spends three hours to move a tile because he doesn’t know how to play?

    That he dresses the fellowship uniform but has no feeling for beauty, no respect for alchemy, no sense of the delicate?

    That he has given up his life to support Robert? A man that cannot deal with being one?

    Common Just me, tell me what is so good about being convinced that a man is more than he is because you only get to see the uniform and the role playing itself out in long practiced plays.

    And I do not expect you to ever hurt him more than he has already hurt himself but I am after no one getting hurt any further with the unexamined play.


  405. 395 my2bits: “OK, the ‘railroad’ idea is most certainly a product of my own fertile imagination, but who knows?…. It may exist!”

    It does, definitely.

    397 Elena: “It is so easy to love on paper.”

    Very true!

    400 Just Me: “Now, how about something better than Girard.”

    It’s possible to have a decent conversation with Girard, just like it is with anyone else, at least when he’s not in lecturing mode. He’s neither more nor less interesting than the average person. I can’t imagine why anyone would pay money to hear him (or Bob or any of the others) speak, however.

    411 Traveller: “I’m inviting those who can to drop the entire construct and start doing their own thinking.”

    Yep, or maybe start watching their own thinking at it happens.


  406. To Charles T

    I very much like your simple, common sense posts….what a relief!!


  407. on September 8, 2007 at 5:24 pm wake up little suzy wake up

    I remember watching the movie the Secret, one of the more enlightening angles I heard was from Esther Hicks and this is not a quote. She mentions that observing all your thoughts, when there are so many, will kind of make you crazy. She suggests regularly checking in with what’s going on with your emotions or how you feel. To me Girard has lost touch with how he feels by watching his thoughts too much. And yes it has kind of made him crazy.


  408. Innernaut #380: What does “twee” mean? About my use of the title Mr. (Ouspensky).

    When I was younger and smoked my first cigarette or drank my first alcoholic drink, I cringed and swore that I would never do those two things again. I did big time as I slowly got use to them.

    The same thing happened when I was first being introduced into life. Saying titles made me cringe. I could barely utter father to a catholic priest or mother superior to a nun. I wanted to throw up when saying sir to anybody. I hated to say coach, chief, captain, officer to a policeman, pastor or doctor. I was married to the daughter of a dentist who insisted everybody call him doctor. When I got divorced I called him everything but that.

    Like cigarettes and alcohol, I finally was able to say a title without doubling up my fists. Being in the service at seventeen helped because everybody seemed to be a Sir.

    In overviewing my life, and using FOF language, I probably have a chief feature of fear. When I was younger and running from a bully I was always looking for something to pick up. When I found something the fear would leave me. The only time I dropped whatever I picked up was when a policeman ordered me to.

    Sir to me is not a title of respect. It’s part of someone’s name.
    Everytime I hear, “the most honorable and distinguished gentleman from the great state of Where-ever,congressman/president what’s his face. I just look him over and wonder.

    G. Haven to me was a bully. Although I only met him for a few minutes in his instinctive comfort zone. Had I known about this blog full of information it would have been the stick I was looking for as I run away from him.

    The face of Fear: One day In San Franciso, I rode the Geary bus toward city hall. At a stop a black man boarded and as he turned from paying his fare, he threw about five imaginary punches at my face. Stunned doesnt described the fear that descended upon me.

    He walked toward the back chattering cuss words. The bus was loaded with passengers and everyone staring straight ahead. Except me. While he was back there picking a fight with a woman a Chinese girl rushed up and sat by me. Thank God, the bus driver said, “ah shut up”. At the next stop the black guy got off. The fear that I have turns me into an enraged bull. Because of my age and health it has largely subsided.

    I know there are bullies on this blog. I ignore them because they are fearful too. “You have nothing to fear but fear itself” is an understatement.

    Elena, you can comment in the way you comment as long as you like. I’ve read everything you have written and I am sure you can handle any bully that can’t shut his fingers up.


  409. $33,000,000 !!! and the Q & A with the official spokesman reminds me of reading Mr. Haven’s thinking. Amazing. Check out the cool dinosaurs tho ! Now that’s worth BELIEVING in.


  410. #417 Arthur
    Found this in wiktionary:
    Adjective
    twee
    Overly quaint, dainty, cute or nice.
    Those Beatrix Potter animals are a little twee for my taste.


  411. To Just Me (#20-401 and 403),
    I’m sorry you cannot distinguish between the messenger and the message, and feel that if you are uncomfortable with the message it is fine to disparage the messenger. You call me ‘aimless’, a cute play on my name which I assure you is not original. You claim to know me and my internal state. You are in imagination about both.

    You don’t seem like the kind of person who appreciates a bucket of cold water being poured over you; few of us do, yet sometimes it can be useful. Certainly, if you don’t tell the truth about a situation, about where you are now, it is rather hard to get anywhere else, even if you had a map, which you don’t.

    I’ve reread my post, and cannot find anything in it that indicates I support authority figures. If I did, I would have called the INS myself. My aim was to state the facts, and guess at the consequences. There is a Law of Consequences; it has been stated otherwise as, “As ye reap, ye shall sow”. Try keying that. It seems that you and so many of your fellows have taken the Burtonisms about ‘escaping lower laws’ or being ‘above the law’ quite literally. I suggest to you that you are all, including Burton, subject to all the laws of the particular world under discussion. There is no ‘escape’ except psychologically, and that rarely.

    You might want to research why this octave occurred at all. My guess is that Robert Earl Burton had a great deal to do with the ‘do’ of the octave, and to leave out or buffer his role in this whole unfortunate set of results would be pretty much like lying. My guess is that there was a lot of “C-Influence wants…” and statements akin to “the civilization we are starting here at Isis will not incorporate Judeo-Christian values”, and so on and on. Unverifiable garbage.

    Expressing ‘sympathy’ here on the blog seems to me to be beside the point, and not particularly useful to Asaf and Ainsley. Since you claim to know me, I am going to make you a gift. My advice is to use your imagination creatively. What would be truly useful to Asaf and Ainsley is to imagine meeting them, and that they are joyous and happy. Do not worry about the details, how this is to be achieved, just see them in your mind’s eye as joyous and happy, thrilled to be together and thrilled with life in general. Leave it up to the universe to fill in the details, the ‘how’. Do not surround the images with conditions, such as “provided they are members of the FoF” or any other junk. Play this over and over again as your time and circumstances allow. Live your life as if this were true. This is a constructive form of prayer.

    Ames


  412. KA (around) 418

    $33,000,000 !!! and the Q & A with the official spokesman reminds me of reading Mr. Haven’s thinking. Amazing. Check out the cool dinosaurs tho ! Now that’s worth BELIEVING in.

    ***********

    It is intriguing to watch people reject those portions of reality that refuse to support their self-satisfying, self-betraying worldview, there is a profound sadness in their attempts to dismiss the irrefutable information that unmistakably turns their ineffective philosophy into a lie.

    Don’t spend your tourist dollars in Kansas.


  413. http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=O2LCErRSqIs

    tweek

    thanks ct for #’s 388 & 414


  414. Twee

    RB surrounding himself with angel figurines and the most tasteless of baroque furniture, and doing a jetee in the boy cottage while wearing a kimona.


  415. A little more on “psychological thinking” for Just Me.

    It is a common element of the “spiritual” con game to talk a little truth and then use it as a leash to lead the unsuspecting across the line into wackoville.

    Grass is green.
    Although the moon appears to be made of green cheese it is not, it is actually covered in grass.

    An example from Girard’s tortured essay.
    Pschological thinking allows one to see that things and events in the “objective” world may have a particular meaning to one’s own “subjective” (inner, more real) world.

    Later he crosses a line, or rather, gorge.

    Someone in the 3rd or 4th state of consciousness (Robert Burton in this case) sees in the “objective” world something that has particular meaning in his “subjective” world. He relates it to his students so it will have meaning in their “subjective” world.

    Unless these students become 4th state Robert Burton or wacko psychopath Robert Burton the conclusion of the stated truth is absurd.

    This is not psychological thinking it is psychological cloning.


  416. 426- ya, that’s twee.

    http://www.sonyclassics.com/devilanddaniel/

    joe bob says, “add to your netflix list.”


  417. “True love will find you in the end.” – Daniel J.


  418. on September 9, 2007 at 2:45 am Way.of.the.Slow.Man

    Twee……
    426 Bruce
    Yuucchh…
    … way too much information


  419. 417 arthur

    As has been noted, “twee” means overly cute or precious. I only mentioned you because early on in the blog, when I used that word you seemed to find it funny.

    As to “Mr” Ouspensky, I feel the same way as you about the subject of titles. Probably why it bugs me so much that Girard says “Mr Ouspensky” and “Mr Gurdjieff” so often in his essay. It seems like it’s become a mechanical habit for most in the FOF, like most word exercises quickly become. But this one seems particularly strange, as I’ve never heard anyone explain why we were all doing it.


  420. Robert enjoys his friend’s company prior to meetings

    Love Malcolm

    Bob can be an inconsiderate brute
    sucking you off in your Sunday-best suit.
    The result, as you’d guess,
    Is an embarrassing mess,
    as you follow him out, all mute.


  421. To our “friends” in high places:


  422. Re my earlier post, #413 or thereabouts:

    For that matter, has anyone warned A’s family in Israel that their handsome, intelligent, capable son is now under investigation by the U.S. government for fraud and illegalities? I doubt they know. Israel is a small country. They shouldn’t be hard to find.

    I wonder what the take of his wife A’s family is. Wonderful kid, clean-as-a-whistle … now she too is pulled into the undertow. Are they just going to call that “C Influence”?


  423. on September 9, 2007 at 4:23 pm if memory serves

    And what a good morning it is. Thank you, Tim.

    Susan


  424. Its Sunday morning and I have to get to work. Since I don’t go to church I watched Jokerman instead. Thanks Tim for the great link!!


  425. Innernaut, ‘ton, xena, Bruce et al.
    Thanks to you fine people, I can now add some new words to my English vocabulary.

    BTW, this is what I found looking up tweek on urban dictionary:
    1- Verb. A side effect of extreme over indulgence in crystal meth or crack cocaine. Tweekers typically perform OCD-like activities centered around finding small quantities of drugs that were inadvertently “misplaced”. Tweekers may be seen on all fours, searching in gutters, obsessively looking under various objects and so on. In certain circumstances, extreme tweeking resembles autism or catatonia.
    2- A character from the T.V show “South Park”. He has very messy blonde hair and supposedly sufferes from A.D.D but his twitching and nervous personality is due to the large amounts of caffeine he consumes. In Series 6, Tweek became the main characters replacement for Kenny, alongside Butters, after he “permanently” died at the end of the previous series.
    3- losing oneself in a senseless task while under the influence of speed.
    4- the nervous ticks or twitching one experiances as they come down from a crystal methamphetamine binge.
    5- Upper, crystal meth
    6- to adjust or fix
    7- to be overly excited at a situation or event that is highly positive and causes exuberance beyond classification of excitement.

    I assume ‘ton was referring to meaning # 7, in case I got it wrong please let me know.

    Jetee still eludees me though, the only references I found by way of google are to a legendary French movie, and I don’t think that’s what Bruce had in mind. (Interestingly, some consider it one of the greatest films ever made and I had never even heard about it. Got to see it… thanks Bruce!)

    Tim 433
    Oh yeah! Pure genius and soooo sexy!


  426. Dear Sheik of Inner Confusion,

    can you tell me/us again, how we can contact a member directly, out of this blog?

    Thank You,
    Philokaios


  427. Here’s a cool video, “Women in Art”.


  428. on September 9, 2007 at 6:30 pm wake up little suzy wake up

    hope I did it right. Enjoy!


  429. Yesterday I was shown a letter sent to the post office boxes in Oregon House, and apparently some people think I am the sender. For your information I am not. It is a strange letter because it seems to be suggesting to people the emergency of them contacting government officials to take care of something that the senders of the letter don’t seem to be willing to take care of and want somebody else to do. I doubt they’ll find any takers.

    While I am not against legal action because the more shocks the Fellowship receives, the more the opportunities to reflect on what it is they are doing there, what matters is that students regain the ability to take the reigns of their lives and respond for everything they are connected with. The Fellowship of Friends is pure show business for all its participants. Every effort to keep the show going is worth it because it only costs thirty percent of what students pay to keep it running while the rest of the money can be used by Robert for his personal expenses. While he has convinced everyone that this effort shows their willingness to give up their will, it guarantees that they won’t question what he does with it. In giving up their will they have also given up enough of a sense of them selves worth protecting. That mentality is what brought the Jonestown people to commit suicide en masse. In the Fellowship it is the mentality that allows students to renounce to full participation in the world they are living in. Renounce life, renounce family, renounce freedom of speech, renounce personal needs for them to develop as human beings, renounce themselves for Robert’s profit. This is what I am standing against.

    It would be interesting to consider what it is that makes students think that they have to pay money to be able to remember themselves or make efforts or have to dress in a particular way and behave in a certain manner to prove to themselves and those surrounding them that they are working while at the same time are willing to give up every inch of their own integrity to allow for someone else to decide when, where and how they must be themselves.

    The snake so clearly bites its own tail. The mentality that is willing to allow for someone else to decide what, where and how one’s money should be spent, how one should behave, where and with whom one should live, is a mentality that has already given up its consciousness and allowed one’s self to be replaced by somebody else’s authority.

    Life is no different. That behavior explains why it took so many years for 21 million black people to over rule four million white people in South Africa and how it is not the physical power what determines the behavior but the authoritarian structure of father, teacher, captain, government what establishes the mind frame for people to settle easily in cults or dictatorships.

    Far from being the inner circle of humanity, The Fellowship of Friends is the expression of humans in a retrograding process in which the lack of willingness to assume responsibility for themselves and the community around them, shows a willingness to degrade themselves as human beings. The individualistic attitude that what happens to others is none of their business that so many students have, some of which stopped participating for years but continued to pay, shows the conviction that they can struggle with themselves on their own without balancing themselves with the feedback from the community. It is a form of selfishness, fear of others and lack of integrity, justified with the act of still helping support an honorable cause without really bothering to look at the cause they are supporting.


  430. on September 9, 2007 at 8:28 pm Vinnie the Fish

    I had lunch with Girard a few days ago, and I thought he was frank and sincere about things generally, not an ‘apologist’ for Robert but very reverent.

    He has a clever intellectual centre and uses it to relate everything to the work, and to see things in a ‘useful’ way, even though his ‘first i’ to a lot of the latest stuff is ‘rubbish or worse’.

    Maybe Robert and Girard are actually very sincere in what they do, and believe they are conscious. Maybe there’s no great conspiracy, and no-one else i can blame for being in the school.

    Like Matt Damon in the Bourne Ultimatum – he was very angry at the CIA for turning him into a hitman – but as it turned out, he had volunteered fully in the beginning.


  431. KA (around) 435

    Its Sunday morning and I have to get to work. Since I don’t go to church I watched Jokerman instead.

    ****************

    It is nothing to believe in a Higher Power, almost everyone believes in God during one of life’s difficulties or another. The real difficulty is convincing a Higher Power to believe in you.


  432. What a clever set-up for extreme self-deprecation, Gr! Then we blame all of our issues on not being good enough for a God to buy into our life. “God, I must not be worthy of your attention. Show me how to make myself worthy for you to speak directly to me.” Very Old Testament, and can lead to great psychic sickness.

    As for “It is nothing to believe in a Higher Power”… I don’t buy it. From my early childhood Episcopalian upbringing, through my adolescent conversion to Born-again Christian, through all the desperate prayers as a teen, and throughout all the efforts of my 25 years in the FoF, I’ve never been able to convince myself of the definite reality of God or a Higher Being. It just doesn’t take in my gut, and I have never been able to ignore that basic doubt. Nor do I have any empirical evidence that Belief in God per se is not just a buffer to avoid living your own responsible, ethical life.


  433. And now something a bit different.


  434. Ready for more?


  435. #440 Hi Sharon,

    Interesting you mention the old testament –around 15 years ago I became fascinated with the old testament book of Job. Read many translations, looked at Blake’s visual interpretation, Dean Juhan’s intro to “Job’s Body”, read commentaries and Jung’s last book “Answer to Job”. And then, in the past few years I had to live it having what was dear to me yanked away and even my health and had to live in a state of intense chronic pain till last year I had brain surgery (which worked, and no, they did not remove my brain like some of you are thinking). Since then slowly, my life has been restored.

    That very set of blames that you named, I had to face. Why do I suffer pain – am I not worthy like so-and-so? Believe me, when put into a situation like that I discovered the immature and outraged parts of myself that I would rather not have faced. Lots of people face problems like cancer (not my problem) and all sorts of unfairnesses. Spending time in waiting rooms of a large teaching hospital I often wondered where the divine was. I know it was immature, like the divine is some great dad and mom and if present, will make everything OK for me and the mangled, deformed and the dying in the next chair over. (as many of us know, any small kindness paid to one another in those situations is an expression of the divine right there.)

    Job goes looking for god and he is really pissed – not at god directly – but at having ever to have been born. God then enters into the whirlwind with Job “face to face”. God is also angry, which particularly interests me (and I have an interpretation, but not now since I have to get back to work). But the upshot is the way Job and god engage with each other is mysterious and finally directly! – with awareness. Both ARE interested in each other, and at the beginning neither ‘believe in’ each other. The conclusion is ambiguous and can be read in many ways. He never gets/demonstrates that empirical evidence. Only experiential. And there is an obvious return of life and love to Job’s life.

    So my thought is we should be careful if we actually want to ‘attract higher power’ ! Its like “hey I’m over here….oops, never mind!”

    cheers KA


  436. sharon (around) 440

    (In reaction to Graduates around 439)

    What a clever set-up for extreme self-deprecation, Gr! Then we blame all of our issues on not being good enough for a God to buy into our life. “God, I must not be worthy of your attention. Show me how to make myself worthy for you to speak directly to me.” Very Old Testament, and can lead to great psychic sickness.

    As for “It is nothing to believe in a Higher Power”… I don’t buy it. From my early childhood Episcopalian upbringing, through my adolescent conversion to Born-again Christian, through all the desperate prayers as a teen, and throughout all the efforts of my 25 years in the FoF, I’ve never been able to convince myself of the definite reality of God or a Higher Being. It just doesn’t take in my gut, and I have never been able to ignore that basic doubt. Nor do I have any empirical evidence that Belief in God per se is not just a buffer to avoid living your own responsible, ethical life.

    *********

    Suspiciously, you seem a bit too adamant. In my experience many people hardly need a clever set-up to be in self-deprecation for one thing and for another in my view most people suffer from substantial “psychic sickness” without the issue of God even being a factor.

    You live a responsible, ethical life? Really? I’m not saying it is not possible, but it would be unusual in my view and according to my experience with human nature in general. In my experience most people buffer all kinds of irresponsible and unethical actions on an almost daily basis. I’ve yet to meet anyone that does not function in life ruled over by at least some degree of vanity for instance, a psychological malady that usually makes a strictly ethical and even a reasonably responsible life impossible. For instance vanity typically doubts that anyone or any ultimate power is capable of more insight into one’s own mind and actions that you are yourself. Vanity even insists that there is no vanity, that this false mentality that rules over each human creature of society is entirely objective and reliable as an ethical code of behavior. Those that insist on presiding over themselves as the exclusive and ultimate judge of their own actions are not as a rule entirely trustworthy, though. It is often proven the case that there is no one more irresponsible than those that attempt to set themselves up as their own god. It is obvious in life that the only people more self-righteous, unethical and irresponsible than those that insist that they enjoy a direct connection God are those that insist that there is no God. That there is likely no actual God in the Judeo-Christian sense of the concept, one that keeps actual track of each creature’s actions and intentions, seems true enough — or maybe there is, how do I know? But citizens that live as if there is no objective judge to answer to either here in life or after it are not historically the responsible and ethical players in life. Whether there is an actual Higher Power(s) behind life, well I’ve got my verifications and you’ve got yours. I can only assure you, for what such an assurance is worth, that belief plays little active role in my understanding of existence at this point in my life.


  437. Girard is blind and hasn’t understood yet that he has already lost the most
    precious things in his life. In his mad and blind faith in Burton he lost
    all those who sincerely loved him. He was unable to recognize people who truly cared about him through a thick cover of his own lies. He
    stupidly traded real jewels for plastic ones.
    Girard is a filter in Burton’s sewage pipe, through which raw sewage from
    Galleria is flowing, while being packaged and wrapped by Girard in absurd
    intellectual wrappers. He is a will-less lifeless puppet, dancing a crazy
    dance according to orders of his master.
    How can he continue to lie so shamelessly to those innocent people who still
    trust him? By telling his lies he deludes trusting people more and more,
    leading them further and further away from seeing a painful truth about
    Burton’s madness.
    He either is damaged and sick himself, or just a shameless liar, and in any
    case it’s very very bad.


  438. on September 9, 2007 at 11:31 pm wake up little suzy wake up

    here’s a lighter thought for the day.


  439. Conventional morality is for losers – that means you, moonfood.

    Love Malcolm

    Bob, espousing the virtues primly,
    Explained himself typically dimly,
    Saying, “Heavens above!
    of course sex isn’t love,
    It is a supra-transformed esoteric facsimile.”


  440. re.

    on 08 Sep 2007 at 5:24 pm416 wake up little suzy wake up
    I remember watching the movie the Secret, one of the more enlightening angles I heard was from Esther Hicks and this is not a quote. She mentions that observing all your thoughts, when there are so many, will kind of make you crazy. She suggests regularly checking in with what’s going on with your emotions or how you feel. To me Girard has lost touch with how he feels by watching his thoughts too much. And yes it has kind of made him crazy.

    ————————————————————————-

    I only want to point out that only the original version of “The Secret” contains the enlightening angles from Esther Hicks. In my opinion the edited version lost its best punch when Jerry and Esther Hicks refused to be conned and bowed out. It was this material provided to me by my friend Virginia (Ginger) Jenkins which woke me up. I am eternally grateful for that and wish I could have helped you, Virginia and any others that I failed: I am sorry and I love you. Yeah, you too uno !!


  441. on September 10, 2007 at 12:52 pm More history needed?

    I heard:

    All men that go to wine cellar dinners, were,are, or will be Robert’s lovers.
    All the men close to Robert were, are, will be Robert’s lovers.

    I heard:

    He seems to be able to do more then 50 blow jobs on his birthday. Record?

    I heard:

    Robert will have a group of 3 men around him and singles one out to not have sex with him or maybe once in a half year. That person’s suffers and want to be part of the “group”.

    I heard

    Many men deny having had sex with Robert, It is called lying?
    Etc, etc, etc.


  442. A happy message for Monday morning:

    “Shiny shiny bad times behind me.”


  443. 449 more history needed

    “I heard:
    He seems to be able to do more then 50 blow jobs on his birthday.”

    I remember hearing back in the old days that Robert suffered a great deal from neck and shoulder pain, for which he needed to take Darvon and receive massages. The person who told me this was so sincere and compassionate for his pain. Seeing the “why” behind his neck pain, it just kind of makes you want to puke.


  444. Could someone tell me if there is anything legally against me if I stand outside the Gatehouse of the Fellowship of friends with a banner asking ” Is consciousness avoiding to know the facts” or

    This is life. Is that the Fourth Way?

    and a few others?

    Veronicapoe and others, do you know what in the state of California and its regulations on cults allows cults to make people act against their own well being?

    Did anything change in the laws on cults after the Jamestown suicides?

    I was listening to Girard’s cd. “In friendship” yesterday and it is shocking. The second letter actually states that consciousnes is contrary to happiness. The brainwashing in it goes from the first word to the last one.


  445. on September 10, 2007 at 4:21 pm 'I see' said the blind man

    Elena 452
    Great idea to picket the pyle. I can’t think of a better way to get the regular members to start asking questions.
    You can always call the Yuba County Sherif on 530 749 7777 and find out what your rights are. As the road outside the pyle is a public one, you should be fine. Also the county has an easment on either side of the road that extends some way up into FOF property, so you should be able to stand by the potted palms next the the pyle and still be on property that is considered public property.
    Good luck!!


  446. 443 KA

    I have far more understanding of your experiences than I would wish — a big chunk of my life for the last 25 years or so has been a variety of chronic pain and illnesses. It continues up to this day — since 2001, it’s been chronic headaches. I’m not looking for pity, but it’s just a fact of my life that I have had ample time to try and come to terms with. I have noticed I’ve gotten better, attitude-wise, over the years. I used to get swamped with anger and “why me?” raging against the heavens when the next bout would occur. Much of what I’ve worked with has been acceptance, and it seems to have helped. Also, just getting older has an effect. Certainly having kids has helped too, as they take some of the focus off of “me, me, me.”

    I also turned to the Book of Job at various points in an attempt to understand what was happening to me, and I found it oddly comforting. I suspect that has something to do with knowing that others have suffered in the same way, and had the same thoughts and feelings, for thousands of years. I’ve also, at different times, tried mindfulness meditation (from the book “Full Catastrophe Living,” based on a famous chronic pain program in Boston — a great book), which is basically self-remembering in a particularly body-focused way. I’ve also tried Chi Gong, acupuncture, self-hypnosis, and so much other stuff I can’t even remember anymore. The best results have come from mindfulness, where you learn to simply “be” with the pain. It doesn’t necessarily decrease the pain, but it makes it a more objective experience, in a way, and can help minimize feelings of panic that will make the pain worse.

    There’s something very elemental about pain, in the way it can corner you into the moment. You turn, you go this way, that way, but it insists on being experienced. It’s a great teacher in that way, but frankly, I’ve had enough for a lifetime. But I’m afraid it’s not quite done with me.


  447. Re: Post 428

    ‘ton’s recommendation of “The Devil and Daniel Johnston.”

    Great documentary about a highly unique talent and deeply disturbed guy. The comparisons to Brian Wilson, however, are absurd.


  448. 452 Elena

    “I was listening to Girard’s cd. “In friendship” yesterday and it is shocking. The second letter actually states that consciousnes is contrary to happiness. ”

    No wonder I was so miserable in the Fellowship! Robert manages to have a pretty good time though. How does Girard explain that?

    On a different note, I’ve mentioned my friendship with Jessica Lee several times on the blog. She died in about 1988 I believe. My office mate, who is out of town, just received a big package from — Jessica Lee. Strange.


  449. Re chronic pain . . .

    Rosen Method bodywork can help with some types of chronic pain — especially if chronic muscle tension or emotional/psychological factors might be involved. I haven’t had to deal with chronic pain myself, but I am a Rosen Method practitioner, and I know that some people benefit from this work.

    If this resonates, http://www.rosenmethod.org has a list of practitioners organized by geographical area.


  450. on September 10, 2007 at 5:13 pm wake up little suzy wake up

    Innernaut: You could investigate CranioSacral Therapy, the Upledger method. I suffered with debilitating migraines for 5 years and my experience with them is it usually has something to do with the atlas being out of alignment. I certainly wouldn’t give up trying to figure it out.


  451. Innernaut – good name for having to experience pain. My heart goes to you because I know what it is like. I tried everything – ALL the treatments – even became so desperate I called a couple of ‘psychics’ on the phone for ‘treatments’… finally my diagnosis was shifted a bit and they said I was operable and that was the beginning of getting out of so much pain (tho it did not end so quickly because of nerve damage). The best I found was what you say – mindfulness. And not trying to escape the body. Pain makes me want to get out and honestly there were two times I was very close to preferring death to living like that – but couldn’t because I would not willfully hurt my loved ones. I was caught on this plane and finally came to see that the divine is not comfort and pleasantness – tho it can be. But it is not limited there. The divine can be found in pain, and by extension, in rage and fury and fire emotions/thoughts which are evoked/related to pain. By surrendering to them and accepting them I seem to have changed and can experience the fire type of person I really am and not buffer that so much. Best wishes on your inner astronaut universe!


  452. 458 wake up little suzy wake up

    Yes, to everything she said!


  453. Elena, be sure to check your rights before picketing the Pyle.
    Make sure that you stay off FOF property because they will be sure to call the sherriff. Stay off the FOF property itself because you will be liable to be arrested for trespass.


  454. Thanks Was KathleenW and wake up little suzy.

    My long-term problems are more than just headaches, unfortunately. It’s like a systemic hypersensitivity of the nervous system, where things that would ordinarily cause little or no pain in someone else become excruciating for me. It’s been mostly headaches for the last 6 or 7 years, but before it included nerve pain in my teeth, back and stomach. Also trigeminal neuralgia, the blue-ribbon prize winner for most extreme form of pain.

    KA 459 — I am right there with you on all of that, right down to the experience with a “psychic.” Thank you.


  455. Innernaut – Trigeminal neuralgia is what I was/am dealing with too. I left you a message on the GF.


  456. For those of you interested in politics, this caught my eyes today:

    Natural disasters – Alfonso Cuarón does Children of Men without the fiction: a short film based on Naomi Klein’s new book about the Shock Doctrine. You can read an extract in the Guardian here:
    In sharp contrast to the glacial pace with which the levees were repaired and the electricity grid brought back online, the auctioning-off of New Orleans’ school system took place with military speed and precision. Within 19 months, with most of the city’s poor residents still in exile, New Orleans’ public school system had been almost completely replaced by privately run charter schools.

    The Friedmanite American Enterprise Institute enthused that “Katrina accomplished in a day … what Louisiana school reformers couldn’t do after years of trying”. Public school teachers, meanwhile, were calling Friedman’s plan “an educational land grab”. I call these orchestrated raids on the public sphere in the wake of catastrophic events, combined with the treatment of disasters as exciting market opportunities, “disaster capitalism”…

    I started researching the free market’s dependence on the power of shock four years ago, during the early days of the occupation of Iraq. I reported from Baghdad on Washington’s failed attempts to follow “shock and awe” with shock therapy – mass privatisation, complete free trade, a 15% flat tax, a dramatically downsized government. Afterwards I travelled to Sri Lanka, several months after the devastating 2004 tsunami, and witnessed another version of the same manoeuvre: foreign investors and international lenders had teamed up to use the atmosphere of panic to hand the entire beautiful coastline over to entrepreneurs who quickly built large resorts, blocking hundreds of thousands of fishing people from rebuilding their villages. By the time Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, it was clear that this was now the preferred method of advancing corporate goals: using moments of collective trauma to engage in radical social and economic engineering.

    and the grabbing goes on…


  457. Laura (around) 465

    here is the link for the info above:

    http://thetorturegarden.blogspot.com/2007/09/shock-and-awe.html

    ***********************

    Ragú

    If you really want to get yourself outraged study the history of the Roman Empire, the fascist régime of Mussolini and the criminal influence the Mafia has over all aspects of life in Italy. Bad stuff a little closer to home. I mean, if this is how you enjoy spending your life.


  458. on September 10, 2007 at 8:26 pm wake up little suzy wake up

    Name: Jane
    Email: janerg@mo-net.com
    City: Aurora
    State: MO
    Country: USA
    Date: 08/02/2003

    I’ve been here before but have to share my story again. This is my 13th week pain free from TN. Last November I began acupuncture treatments. After about 3 weeks I began noticing a difference in the pain, and it just kept getting better and better. In May my wonderful acupuncturist suggested I try CranioSacral Therapy to try a different alternative to what she was doing. I was lucky enough to find a wonderful DO that does this treatment and she is helping me, also. She has discovered that my 2nd & 3rd rib and my shoulder are way out of line which she thinks caused the pinching of the trigeminal nerve. Cause: cradling the phone between my ear and shoulder. She sent me to physical therapy for a month and I continue those exercises. Tomorrow begins week 14 pain free!!!!! After 1-1/2 years of ungodly pain, acupuncture and CranioSacral Therapy have been the answer for me. Those two women saved my life!!!! I would be happy to answer any questions that anyone might have for me about this. I know it works, and there is an answer out there for you!! Don’t give up!!! Good luck!!!! Jane

    Don’t give up Innernaut!


  459. 462, 463 etc.

    On trigeminal neuralgia:

    Not often I physically feel compassion with people I only ‘know’ via the computer screen… But, I had some experience with that a few years ago and I have to agree it is the Blue Ribbon winner, hands down. Good luck. And I’m sorry. David


  460. And happy Monday to you too, Graduates.
    If you are in the mood, check out this beautiful depiction of terror and paranoia. BTW, is anyone here familiar with Edward Gorey? Maybe some British lunars?

    http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=dvBPCm25z4I


  461. Laura (around) 469

    And happy Monday to you too, Graduates.
    If you are in the mood, check out this beautiful depiction of terror and paranoia. BTW, is anyone here familiar with Edward Gorey? Maybe some British lunars?

    http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=dvBPCm25z4I

    *************

    And don’t forget the real history of the Roman Catholic Church while you’re at it.


  462. BTW, this might another example of synchronicity! I just watched an Italian movie last night called “Fascists on Mars”. It’s a brilliant surrealistic political satire and I had lots of laughs. Yeah, this is how i enjoy spending my life, thanks. Have fun!
    http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=_3v-K8o9WPY


  463. Conscience

    part 19 #439 unoanimo

    “true humility and conscience does not feed upon the prerequisite of having to make a mistake in order to manifest and grow”—- true humility and conscience cannot be built on aftermath alone, there’s a deeper picture to paint, then burn….”

    part 20 #226 ‘ton

    “Imagine if you can – not having a conscience, none at all, no feelings of guilt or remorse no matter what you do, no limiting sense of concern for the well-being of strangers, friends, or even family members. Imagine no struggles with shame, not a single one in your whole life, no matter what kind of lazy, harmful, or immoral action you had taken.”

    Many of us, myself included, have made reference to conscience, or lack thereof in relation to Robert Burton and his most ardent followers, yet what do we know of our own consciences? Are we so sure that we really know what it is, how to recognize it in ourselves and how to follow its indications as a guiding force in our lives? It seems to me that we only feel the pangs of conscience as an aftermath, the recognition of some wrong doing in relation to others that comes in too late to forestall a wrong action but with enough force to produce what we call ‘remorse of conscience’ along with the realization that we have not been true to the truer parts of ourselves.

    Random House Webster’s College Dictionary defines conscience as “(1) the inner sense of what is right or wrong in one’s conduct or motives, impelling one toward right action: to follow the dictates of conscience.” “(2) the complex ethical and moral principles that control or inhibit the actions or thoughts of an individual.” The definition of remorse…”deep and painful regret for wrongdoing.” The definition of remorseless…”without remorse; merciless; pitiless; cruel.”

    I have many memories, some very old, of moments of extreme remorse. Memories that can be evoked with the corresponding pain that originally surfaced with the complete temporary understanding of my own wrongdoing, but I cannot say that my life has been guided by these temporary understandings. So who am I to pass judgment on anyone else’s conscience or apparent lack thereof? Have I truly plumbed the depths of my being so frequently as to say that I know what it means to ‘let your conscience be your guide?’
    Gurdjieff advises us to ‘do unto others as you would have them do unto you’ as a practice
    that will lead us to conscience. Can I really put my self in someone else’s shoes; put myself in another’s place before carrying out an action that may be harmful? Past experience says not frequently enough. At least I see no indication that my life is guided in this way, and wishing I could somehow undo my worst past transgressions doesn’t bring any sense of closure no matter how much reflection and memory probing I may engage in. In retrospect it really is not so much closure that I seek, I don’t believe there is that possibility in the recalling of previous wrongdoing and the attempt each time a particular emotional recollection occurs to try to undo or make right, at least in my mind and my emotions, what cannot be made right because of all the events that have occurred as a result of those actions. My own revisionist history does not make the pain go away. I suppose there is something in the Catholic confessional process that relates to this somehow, but I would be lying if I said I knew how.

    This then, the question of conscience and how to connect to its dictates is my current burning question of the moment; a question I am trying to make a more constant companion.

    Thoughts from fellow travelers would be appreciated.

    Steve Anderson
    theplace@rockisland.com


  464. Thanks everybody for your kind words and suggestions. I’m too stubborn to give up.

    Fortunately, the trigeminal neuralgia is “only” an occasional thing for me, not the big ongoing problem. Of course, it doesn’t take much of it to get your attention. They don’t call it the “suicide pain” for nothing.

    Also fortunately, my pain is pretty well controlled most of the time thanks to the proper meds — it’s not constant the way it was the first few years. So I’m happy most of the time. Guess Girard would say that’s a bad thing…

    To make this more relevant, I’ve wondered what role my experience in the FOF might have had in all the pain/illness. I’m pretty sure the chronic fatigue syndrome I had most of my twenties was a direct result of overwork/lack of sleep that I felt compelled to do in the first years after joining. I got very sick during that time, and it never really stopped. The headaches really started around the time all the resentment began bursting to the surface. I feel sure there’s a connection.


  465. on September 10, 2007 at 9:42 pm Skeptical Optimist

    470/471 Laura

    Laura, the trailer for “Fascists on Mars” is pretty funny, thanks. Viewers of PBS “Mystery” would know Gorey from the amusing titles that ran (still?) at the opening of the show. Very wry and beautifully drawn.

    JoelF


  466. 472 Steve Anderson

    Re: Conscience.

    I’ve felt that what I’d call conscience is a flash of understanding in the moment of deciding some course of action. It’s a very quiet and fast understanding, in which I can see the consequences of my behavior. If I don’t follow it, there is no guilt proceeding from this understanding. It just passes, and the moment is over. I feel like this understanding at the moment in which I can actually perform an action is different from the pangs of guilt that I associate with remorse.

    Just my 2 bits.


  467. 472 Steve Anderson.

    Conscience to me is an aspect of awareness of connectedness with others, from which right action flows without thought or effort. As a word it has many religious and ethical overtones which cloud the underlying reality.


  468. WULS #20/467

    I was lucky enough to find a wonderful DO that does this treatment and she is helping me, also. She has discovered that my 2nd & 3rd rib and my shoulder are way out of line which she thinks caused the pinching of the trigeminal nerve.

    I would enjoy the positive result more than the explanation. The trigeminal nerve is a cranial nerve, and does not venture below the neck. Implicating shoulder and ribs in the explanation is a bit of a stretch…, one that our friend REB might appreciate.


  469. on September 10, 2007 at 10:19 pm Yes, more awareness of FOF history IS needed

    449 More history needed?

    You wrote:
    All men that go to wine cellar dinners, were, are, or will be Robert’s lovers. All the men close to Robert were, are, will be Robert’s lovers.

    My response:
    It’s probably true that almost all men who go to wine cellar dinners, and all who travel regularly with RB, eventually have sex with him. At least that’s what I’ve heard, and that’s what makes sense based on my personal experience with the man. However, I know of at least a few exceptions, myself included. Of course I didn’t get a return invite after saying “no.”

    I know this is a tricky issue… Maybe some men are ashamed they gave in and had sex with him despite not wanting to, or despite not being gay. However, the shame that I’ve had to deal with is the constant realization that I was naive to the man’s intentions, and believed that he meant well. Believe me, I was fucked in my own way by Robert Burton — several years of my life were wasted, I lost a lot of money, and I am still perplexed at my own stupidity. I’m recovering nicely, but it’s taken a long time. So, some of us are fucked in the bedroom (or wherever it is), and other men/women in other ways.

    You wrote:
    I heard: He seems to be able to do more then 50 blow jobs on his birthday. Record?

    My response:
    This is a man who talks constantly about the “King of Hearts.” Amazing.

    hypocrisy – a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion

    You wrote:
    I heard: Robert will have a group of 3 men around him and singles one out to not have sex with him or maybe once in a half year. That person’s suffers and want to be part of the “group”.

    My response:
    I don’t doubt it. I’m sure the usual justification for such manipulative, immature, bullshit is that RB is supposedly helping expose the guy’s false personality, or to see himself, or whatever. Unbelievable nonsense. But it’s one way that many people try to “justify” almost everything the man does that hurts someone.

    You wrote:
    Many men deny having had sex with Robert, It is called lying?

    My response:
    Well, maybe in some cases men will lie about it. I don’t blame them. But I know a few, including myself, who never did have sex with him despite many invitations to his inner sanctums. He did eventually ask me to have sex with him, and I politely said no. Once again, guess who stopped receiving invitations? Makes me wonder what he would have done if I had told him to go fuck himself.


  470. 477, this is not necessarily a good topic for this blog – quickly tho, the trigeminal nerve can get pinched by the atlas bone. The atlas bone’s connected to the back bone. The back bone’s connected to the rib bone. The thigh bone’s connected to the knee bone…. what was it you said that RB might appreciate?


  471. 328 Xena

    You were the enlightened teacher!


  472. (third try)
    Laura (around) 471

    BTW, this might another example of synchronicity! I just watched an Italian movie last night called “Fascists on Mars”. It’s a brilliant surrealistic political satire and I had lots of laughs. Yeah, this is how i enjoy spending my life, thanks. Have fun!

    (Idiotic boob-tube Italian idea of martial power here)

    (two links trigger moderation)

    *************

    American Ingenuity:


  473. test post

    I’ve tried three times to post a reply to Laura, all have been refused.


  474. Note: this is hardly worth the trouble, but my comment can be found at:

    http://fofgraduates.wordpress.com/2007/06/08/graduates-of-the-fellowship-of-friends/

    number 48


  475. on September 11, 2007 at 12:07 am wake up little suzy wake up

    The way I understand conscience is that it is part of intuition, or a moment in time when we connect to our source energy, which is what we are all connected to anyway but gets missed with all the external ‘stuff’ going on. And the louder the ego (either externally or internally) the dimmer it gets.


  476. on September 11, 2007 at 12:11 am R.I.L. Lollipop Company

    Lollipop Update
    _________________

    59+ Fellowship of Friends religious visa holders are now on their way back to momma and daddy, i.e., their respectfully surprised original homelands, compliments of the INS and ours truly (you know who)…

    Bon Voyage!


  477. KA #20/478

    477, this is not necessarily a good topic for this blog – quickly tho, the trigeminal nerve can get pinched by the atlas bone. The atlas bone’s connected to the back bone. The back bone’s connected to the rib bone. The thigh bone’s connected to the knee bone…. what was it you said that RB might appreciate?

    Pain and suffering has been one of the themes of the blog…
    I was trying also to bring levity to the thread in implying that any explanation that is indeed a stretch may be one that RB would appreciate, as his keying of late often gives new meaning to “far-fetched, improbable”. On the other hand, as for the bones, many claim everything is connected.


  478. Robert knows the value of intentional insincerity

    Love Malcolm

    Bob entertains mythological guys
    Pinocchio is one, I’m advised!
    He sits on the puppet
    sticks his nose right up it
    And makes the poor fellow tell lies!


  479. oh, ha! thanks Opus.


  480. 472 Steve Anderson: “Many of us, myself included, have made reference to conscience, or lack thereof, in relation to Robert Burton and his most ardent followers”

    I’ve not often heard Burton and his inner circle refer to conscience. But if we take conscience to be an aspect of awareness of connectedness with others, then we can reasonably substitute the word love, which in a general sense could be described in the same way.

    Burton speaks a lot about love. He claims to love his students. Many of his inner circle, both male and female (as in Karen’s I Love REB numberplate) claim to love Robert. Who am I to doubt this? They really do sincerely seem to love him, or at least their idealised image of him. Does he love them? Hard to say. His sometimes cruel actions would argue against it, but who knows? It’s quite possible he does experience some strong positive emotions towards the people who support him.

    Is he some kind of mystical semi-godhead who radiates love and heightened awareness to his followers? No, he’s just an ordinary man with unusual tastes who earns a living by talking about his own rather odd version of spirituality.


  481. Physical pain. Good friend. Definitely cranio sacral therapy is worth trying Innernaut. It took the pain from the broken bones for two years, after years of morphine based drugs. Came back after but it was worth the expense even if later therapies have not been as efficient. If they are too expensive in the states you’ll find wonderful doctors in Colombia and even after paying everything it’ll probably be half the price and that’s true for many conditions. Welcome anyone if further information is ever needed.

    Steve. What I most reject about Fellowship indoctrination is that it takes away the knowing that one’s conscience is worth following and replaces it for following Robert. I sincerely believe that there is no reason for anyone to have to go through the Fellowship for seventeen years like I did. I learnt what I learnt and my problem to transform and use it but I will do everything I can to avoid other people having to go through it. I have never seen in life people who willingly psychologically brainwashed themselves and started acting against their well being. Being out is beginning to feel glorious!

    I do suggest you trust yourself and go ahead and make as many mistakes as necessary knowing your keel is not fixed like in the Fellowship.

    Thank you for sharing.


  482. The Magic Gnome

    Once upon a time in the great city of Angels a gnome was born. The little gnome at first did not realize it was different than the humans surrounding it but as it grew older it realized that the humans were becoming bigger and it stayed the same size. It was small , ugly and had ,dare I say a tiny little ding a ling. It also developed from what is a human stand point a rather unpleasant habit which was an inability to control its bowels. Every where it went it left disgusting, odoriferous by products of its inner process of digestion. The reason for this was that it wanted so much to be human that it imitated everything they did. Even eating food that was not normal for a gnome thus resulting in this rather severe social handicap.

    Being of the same size as normal human pre adolescent children it tried to hide amongst them. In particular it liked to spend time at the local municipal pool. In this it was helped by the limited magical ability’s of gnomes. It was able to disguise itself as a human child. Although it could not maintain this disguise indefinitely it was sufficient to allow it access to the no gnomes allowed facility and be able to play with the children, at least for a while. Unfortunately it could not control the release of its digestive by products but here again gnome magic helped it. It was able to at least temporarily disguise these unpleasant releases as certain materials that human children enjoyed such as “tootsie rolls”, “Baby Ruth”, “chocolate covered almonds and raisons and in some cases when the discharge was of a gaseous and liquid nature those delightful American favorites called “soda pop” such as “coca cola”., “Dr. Pepper” and “root beer”.
    The adults who over saw the operation of the pool were baffled at the constant pollution. They found it difficult to focus on the little gnome. One reason was that many of the young humans who happened on the delightful gifts of the little gnome were attracted to them and apon tasting them discovered they tasted much like what is called “dog crap” this experience would often make the young children ill and cause them to release foul matters into the pool. There were certain young children who were able to see that it was the little gnome leaving these gifts these were of the “solar” type and they had a mechanical ability to not be fooled by the gnome magic, but as the gnome was constantly assuming different disguises they were unable to convince the adults that it was the one gnome leaving all these tasty treats.
    Ultimately many adults prohibited their children from using the public pool. Over time the little gnome realized that there were no longer very many children in the pool only other gnomes making believe they were children. These gnomes lacked the same dietary requirements and more refined sensibilities of humans, that is they were unable to discriminate between organic bodily waste products and genuine Swiss chocolate so they did find these varied little gifts delightful and eagerly consumed these special treats.The gnome also discovered that a small percentage of humans were unable to distinguish between its “little gift packages” and the genuine article. It would befriend these poor waifs and use this friendship to gain entry to other private pools. Still it was unable to control its release of “little gifts” and would soon leave its little gift packages and be found out.
    Over time It did however , to its own surprise, attract a following of humans who enjoyed its little treats. They followed it around and eagerly collected these varied gift packages. These humans lacked a certain ability to tell one thing from another and it was even able to convince many of the these young females lacking in this facility of discrimination that they could gain an even better treat from orally stimulating it tiny little ding a ling.
    Now I can’t say this story has a moral. It is probably a fantasy, there is no such thing as a gnome and if there was this group of ever so special and very select individuals would certainly not be fooled by the disguising of the little gnomes special packages of “dog crap” as genuine “esoteric knowledge”. But if there was a moral for this story it might be that if you should see an ugly little short creature with a tiny ding a ling that just can’t seem to stop pissing on its own feet and leaving a trail of “special little packages” be careful as it may not be human and if it is the gnome in yet another disguise the delightful gifts it bestows on those around it will cause any healthy human to respond with disgust and perhaps become ill. Also beware of drinking any “soda pop”, “coffee” or “chocolate milk” this little fellow may leave around. For those young females who are drawn into this errant creatures sphere of influence be cautious when it tells its variation of the “frog prince” story in which an ugly short creature with a tiny ding a ling is made into a tall handsome Solar prince with a full sized schlong with a special kind of “kiss”. It doesn’t work , it remains a short, ugly, shit eating , foul smelling, imitation of a human being with a tiny dick.


  483. 434, 437, 438, 442, 482, 485 and 489 are newly moderated.

    Have been working my ass off, first opportunity to go on the internet in days.


  484. Laura,
    The word is actually jete with an accent on the second e. It is a leaping movement in ballet.


  485. Rumors of a big time legal shakeup happening. Anyone know facts?

    Also rumors that conscious being GH is seeing someone “new” — as mentioned in 434, is anyone going to warn her? I would hate to see her go through what the others have, if it’s true.


  486. Thank you looking man but the sentences were rather formatory so I’ve thought of others that might go well outside the fellowship gate or on banners all along rices-crossing road to the Fellowship:

    Jump, jump! The water is cool!

    Alright, The Show is over, you can come out now!

    On your marks, get set, go!

    Angle from My Fair Lady that Robert likes so much:

    Move, move, move your blooming ass!

    Wake up little Suzy, wake up!

    Jump! Now or never!

    “Beware of the God!”


  487. 497

    Thanks, that’s what I meant.


  488. Danger! Keep Out

    “That’s enough Dears”

    Free Doom or Freedom?

    Galleria Bar bie Cue!

    “BACK”
    Practice the sequence!

    “Leave”
    Live the sequence.

    “Think”
    Before it fries.

    “Come on Bobby, come on, you too can leave!”

    “The door is wide and open where the two worlds meet!”

    “Move” or crystallize.

    “Remember yourself always and everywhere”

    “Let us pray? or let us pay.”

    “Way of the Fuckir”

    “Red light”

    “Brainwashing for free”

    “To be or not to be” That is the question.

    ———– Dead End (Towards the Fellowship)
    ———- Life: The Open Road

    Deal with the many I’s instead of crystallizing in a few.

    Your nose is growing Pinochio!

    Welcome to Paradise Lost.

    “Fools for sale”

    “Low Bob or Bloy Job?”

    “King of Hearts Blow Jobs at all times”

    The Fellowship of Friends
    Intense courses on:

    Diving in tension
    Splitting Personality
    Hard core porno
    Professional Pimps
    Functions without consciousness
    Invisible eating while keeping eye contact

    “Welcome to Consciousland: Live Barbies for Sale”

    “To give it or not to give it” That is the question.

    “Bananas Benanas”

    “Good householders know where their money goes”

    “Freedom” Take it or Leave it.

    Bar bie cue or Bobby cue?

    Or maybe dress up like Liza M. in Cabaret and dance “money, money, money, money, money, money’

    Or dress up like Peter fishing for souls and stand at the Gatehouse with a fishing rod.

    Or maybe I should apologize:

    I’m sorry I’ve been throwing up so badly but admit it, you made me sick!

    Or have some life saving devices to hand out to anyone going in or out!

    Unoanimo and Bruce you inspired the following feeling and it naturally led to Duncan, Yesri Baba, Abigail, and PLEASE, Please more of that wonderful literary Cake:

    “I like your absence 99% less than your presence”


  489. Daily Card: I’m much appreciating your variations on a theme. Thank you for your consistency.

    482. Yes more history….

    I know a friend who was also invited a few times until he said No to Robert and was not only not invited again but at some point much pressure was put against him to take his wife away for another of the boys.

    I also heard Girard has a girlfriend. If it is ML, she was beautifully loving to both of us and I would wish them great joy. We do keep growing in every form of love. Unfortunately M. you might be a facade set up for he likes them a lot more stupid than you. But if you’re in for it, hopefully you’ll keep decrystallizing him instead of crystallizing with him. You were getting the enlightened look of fanatism before I left and while I do not take away the possibility of your enlightenment because of your own, beautiful hard work, it is also a very attractive energy for both Robert and Girard who don’t have much of their own.

    People think Robert has it but he fakes it for two seconds when the show goes on but if you really look at him you’ll notice how difficult it is for him to keep anything up but the hope that you’ll be idolizing him. As soon as you stop idolizing him, he’ll look at you and actually greet you hoping you’ll have mercy on his soul. At least that is what happened to me.


  490. Despite the prolific evidence to the contrary exhibited here today, most people that leave the Fellowship of Friends do not lose their minds. Honestly.


  491. Just found a daily card in a book, message from the teacher to his current students:

    Those who played the roles that you are playing now have escaped. ~ Love, Robert
    August 27, 2002

    :-D


  492. #442 Vinnie the Fish

    If Girard is that clever he should be able to see he is supporting a crap cult.

    By the way, I haven’t seen the movie yet.


  493. “Way of the Fukir”

    Good one Elena!


  494. “Welcome to Paradise Lost.”

    Elena – wickedly funny! maybe you could list them all in small print with a large readable message at the bottom saying “All of the Above”


  495. Vinnie the Fish,

    After thirty five years of playing the same role, Girard and Robert have crystallized into it looking perfectly authentic.

    The fact that they have gone along with the many of us who wanted to believe that Robert was as conscious as those in the Fellowship held, does not make them less responsible for the emotional and intellectual, economic and instinctive damages they have and are still doing to thousands of people.

    It is not about not assuming responsibility for one’s blind love, but also not about avoiding to point out the responsibility others have and they in particular have it huge.

    The ambition of power behind both roles and Asaf’s no less, is nothing but ambition and they are no different than any one else in that. The difference is they hold themselves as conscious beings.

    That respect that they are expecting me and other students here to have for their right to exist as they are is what they were never willing to grant any student and give each one of us full participation in the community we payed for. Instead they created a system of hierarchies in which a few were extremely priviledged while the rest were humiliated. The degree to which you find all that so normal is the degree to which you are indoctrinated and this is not a conscious process in which you decide or not to be indoctrinated.

    We have all been sick. Try not to forget the facts no matter how many flowers you see over the pile of muck.

    I do not expose Girard because of the pain he caused me even if a lot of that comes through, I expose him because I think we need to understand where the incoherences began to happen, how and why and they are connected in all of us.

    We’ve all become a little sick in so many ways.


  496. RE. 489 R.I.L. Lollipop Company
    Lollipop Update
    _________________

    59+ Fellowship of Friends religious visa holders are now on their way back to momma and daddy, i.e., their respectfully surprised original homelands, compliments of the INS and ours truly (you know who)…

    Bon Voyage!

    —————————————————————————

    Something must have gone wrong! Surely it should read 69

    Yes, Bone Voyage, indeed.


  497. hi laura,

    you said you liked the lyrics of Echoes, so if you want to listen to it see the link below. It is a long song, but out of this world for some of us….

    http://www.pinkfloyd.co.uk/echoes/index.html

    best to you,


  498. Robert is visited by the spirits of seminal, esoteric figures.

    Love Malcolm

    To those close, Bob would boast,
    I once sucked King Tut’s ghost.
    At the height of orgasm
    Said the royal phantasm,
    “I think I can feel it—almost!”


  499. on September 12, 2007 at 4:29 am More history needed?

    I heard:

    70 people who have a religious visa have to go back to their country of origine

    The Rusian boys wil keep a salary and Robert will be visiting them in Europe?

    Anna Mar– F is asked to leave the country?

    What is the responsiblity of the board/ council members. Will they be iterviewed and what will be the consequences?

    Will A.G and E.B interviewed to as they have been dealing with religious visa’s in the past?

    Robert is traveling next week to Europe for 5 weeks???

    Will there be more investigations?

    Keep paying your donations so Robert Burton can keep traveling?

    Time will give us many answers…patience.

    Enjoy September.


  500. Thanks KA, humor is beginning to come back after all the photographs. Thank you for the photographs!

    People who loose influence C destroy themselves. Their departure is a loss but identifying with their departure is a greater loss. That is not self remembering but feminine dominance.

    Robert Burton. Self Remembering. Influence C.

    I wonder what has changed that students can now connect with ex students?

    Awakening is much more than you can imagine because it is not imagination, it is reality.

    Robert Burton. Self Remembering. Consciousness.

    I wonder wether supporting an institution dedicated to providing men for Robert is imagination or reality? Or does it not fit any of those categories?


  501. RE. 501 Elena

    Be Leave it
    Be For Is is isn’t.

    Be Hold
    Tutu Late!

    Going, going, goes
    The Dink Dong Belle
    Going, going, gone
    To Dink Dong Hell

    B one Way

    Beware of Curve Ball
    Strike Three! You’re Out!

    Well Come!


  502. Sufferin’ Suckertash
    Be be be
    That’s All Folks


  503. “The problem of a psychopath’s moral and legal responsibility remains open and subject to varioius solutions, frequently summary or emotional, in various countries and circumstances. It remains a subject of discussion whose solution does not appear possible within the framework of the presently accepted principles of legal thought…”

    Andrew M. Lobaczewski


  504. I was speaking with a student last night and he mentioned that what keeps him in the school is Influence C. Yes, Robert is all that but there is a higher influence and he is conveying special energy by feeding himself with semen.

    I heard Unoanimo is in love, no wonder he’s not in blog!


  505. Ok, this is silly, but I couldn’t resist the King Tut reference…
    Wouldn’t it be nice to see this performed at the Theatron?

    http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=1623844556


  506. 517 Elena
    Uno’s been quite active on Res Ipsa Loquitur the last few days.


  507. # 512 More History Needed-
    MORE INFO COMING OUT

    70 religious worker visas deemed fraudulent by the INS
    The top immigration lawyer that AG saw in LA advised that all R-1 (religious workers!! on the R-1/R-2 visas) should be returned back to their country of origin- before INS issues subpeona’s and has them officially deported. Word has it that the immigration lawyer in LA also refused to take on the Fellowship of Friends case, as he did not think they had a leg to stand on.

    Robert Burton is continuing all the salaries of his private harem while they are in Russia (compliments of the hard working students who stay in the Fellowship of Friends).
    Most likely he will be spending more time in Russia and Europe since his harem will be significantly depleted at Isis.

    The ‘inner circle’ executive powers in the Fellowship of Friends will be paying for transportation and providing extra funds for those R-1 visa holders that are deemed ‘risky’ (meaning, those who are currently more vocal or disgruntled), to get them out of the country first and quickly, so the INS does not have a chance to interview them.

    Looks like M_h_i will be returning to Romania. Geee- he didn’t get his green card in time! D_r__n will be staying – after all his Green card is in the works as a result of his ‘official’ marriage to Ed_t.

    Question? Hey how come the little guy always gets the shaft, and the main player (Robert Burton) goes off to Europe for 5 weeks to enjoy his boys there and the life style to which he has become accustomed.

    But, oh what luck! That means more events in Europe with Robert Burton and Asaf. After all the Euro is trading at $1.38 against the dollar. Bigger bang for the buck. For every $ 100 euro event, Robet gets to take home $138 US.

    Enjoy making your $775 September donation plus your teaching payment . At least you know someone is enjoying your hard earned money!

    Oh, and for those who are concerned whether the ‘teacher’ will return to the USA soon or not, don’t worry Robert Burton will be back in time for Thanksgiving and Christmas to pick up more cash. Save up folks, Thanksgiving and Christmas is just around the corner, bring your check books or credit cards, for more event filled days.

    Enjoy September!


  508. I am very sorry for my careless remark on Unoanimo. I should not have mentioned it. Please forgive me those who I touched.

    The Tirany of Beauty

    Mother, the King is naked.

    Shush little one, it is better not to say anything. Everyone is so pleased with the king even if naked.

    Mother, but the king is sucking people’s energy away.

    You’re just identified dear, who else is complaining about it? It is not for us to determine what the king should do.

    Mother please, the king is ripping people off.

    Look at the flowers and all around you and stay present dear. It’s not your money is it?

    Oh Mother, they cut off her head.

    Now dear, don’t start with those things, any head that is not quietly in essence better get cut off. It is the Medusas wanting to come out of you.

    Mother, Father is dead.

    That’s alright dear, any father can die as long as everyone goes along with it.

    Mother, they stopped playing, they can’t move.

    No dear, playing is sacred.

    Mother, their penises can no longer have erections.

    True dear, it is normal when the father dies.

    Mother, they’ve become frigid in the rose garden.

    It is the thorns of beauty my love, that makes them frigid.

    Oh Mother dear, but they cannot experience orgasms.

    No dear, they come without orgasms because they’ve displaced their genitals to their head.

    It’s so tragic!
    Just a play dear.


  509. on September 12, 2007 at 7:11 pm R.I.L. Lollipop Company

    Lollipop Update #2
    ____________________

    517

    First thought ~ “(is) Influence C”
    Second thought ~ “(is) a higher influence”
    Third thought ~ “(is) conveying special energy by feeding himself with semen.”

    Fourth thought ~ “Unoanimo (is) in love, no wonder he’s not in blog!”

    _____________________

    No, Elena, that’s not ‘how it is that he’s not on the blog’
    methinks it’s simpler than that; somehow a line concerning Unoanimo in love following one concerning Robert Burton “feeding himself with semen” reflects that ‘simpler’ thing;
    your ‘sequence’ of associative thoughts is both revealing and very sad.


  510. 521 R.I.L. Lollipop Company

    Don’t jump to a quick conclusion. Her ’sequence’ of associative thoughts has a political meaning and not sexual (as you wish to see it). She is preparing the banners and getting ready for standing outside the Gatehouse of the Fellowship of friends! Uno could help…


  511. on September 12, 2007 at 8:59 pm rain, or (hmmmmmm, mouthfeel)

    Folks

    I read the sheiks first post months ago and was impressed by how well he described a prospective meeting. A week ago or thereabouts I read all this new stuff, following the wikipedia link and am still catching up. I was in the school for about 3 years in the late eighties, and have for years imagined it to be a perfect but risky utopia of thoughtful people discovering and sharing culture and consciousness, and have missed the friends I had and the atmosphere of meetings and all that. I actually don’t want to share too much more because it is a little embarrassing and painful to recall that time and what followed; I think I might really of left the concept of the fourth way behind now, as I always really dug Meher Baba, and have recently been discovering Vedanta, too. I think I will end up sharing a little more about my fourth way experiences… but not this time.

    I knew Baba was cool before I joined the fellowship, which was lucky for me, though its hell and damnation propaganda seriously scarred me. The letter I read, purported to be from Miles is accurate, I feel. Abraham Lincoln spoke somewhere about how we consent to be deceived, though not quite in those words. I wanted to hook up with something fellowship, with the aim and spirit of those people I truly loved and of whom I found myself cast out from so long ago. At that time I had no idea of Robert as a sexual pervert, but have later come to believe that to be the case; I have had that idea for 15 years or more. I met Robert twice. Sitting at a dinner, I was amazed to see 12 or 13 people in what I called then ‘the state of love’. After that he invited me. In some ways the fellowship saved my life, as life seemed incredibly bleak. Although I knew of Meher Baba, I didn’t even know where I might find books about him. The fourth way gave me a view of civilization which is, in many respects, the correct one, I think. Only thing is, it missed out quite a lot of compassion, but as I say somewhere else here, I don’t think compassion is something the form of occult mysticism the fellowship follows necessarily pays much heed to. I wonder if love is fetishized, when it is turned into an alchemical zone/number, that can be earnt by performing mental/intellectual techniques?

    I got invited to Renaissance but I just couldn’t get it together, and then kicked myself for a long time thinking of the opportunity I felt I had wasted. I don’t actually know if I would of minded getting a nosh from the great one, and might of quite liked the attention; but I’m quite sure the stars would of shone much dimmer, and such grossly icky behaviour would have been hugely destructive morally, emotionally, spiritually and in every other part of myself.

    I can quite understand the defences students put up to this information – I myself made similar rationalizations, and that, as an ex-student. That’s how good a student I was. Saying – ‘but how can we judge?’ and ‘he needs the food for his higher centres, oh let us throw ourselves on the flames of his milky white goddess-being?’ or ‘yeah, but their there, and by being there and letting it all happen to them, well, they are complicit in it all; and ‘he’s only raping and sexually exploiting innocent machines, (they’re not like real people, like us for instance) and they should feel really privileged if they knew the value of the cup they shot their milky pee-pee into, asked or not, for he is really a God, and from that cup also comes that wisdom by which we build our fallout shelters and buy second-rate renaissance daubs, signifying the 9 of hearts with the big boobies and the googoo molecular body sucky sucky at breastfeed’. (got carried away)

    Because I have made so many very similar judgements – and that is a floor not only in my conscience, but also in the nature of the fourth way as an unfinished occult system without a genuinely traceable and accountable source of origin. (not that awakening should ever be thought of as needing to be accountable to some history – but it should also never be thought of as, containing in that, the possibility of robbing others innocence and stealing their sexual integrity, money, or anything else for remorselessly slavering greed). Greed, by the way, is the attempt to fill a hole that cannot be filled for all the seeking and putting stuff into. People sometimes call this ‘the hole in the soul’. It’s the not-enough syndrome. Craving. That kind of thing.

    Fair enough. Awakening has many levels. But when you entrust your spiritual development to someone, it may be worth waiting a while till you find someone who doesn’t want your/your boyfriends cock in their mouth.

    I simply couldn’t afford to be a student anymore, and that is how I got out. If it weren’t for the fact that I was so crap at work and money-making I would of stuck around probably till the last… erm… trump. At the same time my passion for a system of numbers and playing cards representing the possibility of love grew thin.

    It was the most wonderful relief and surprise to go to Meherabad years later and find how simple and unaffected the home of the Avatar is. I had almost believed that my possibilities had died through losing this C influence conceit, and all the conceits that go with the ‘Fellowship’. I didn’t, but I did. I think you will know what I mean.

    I am sincerely sorry to mention Meher Baba’s name in such a litany of crime and contempt, but I do so to encourage others that the fellowship is based on a conceit about evolution (or involution) and the world that is false and misleading in the extreme. Being is a constant discovery curtailed in this instance by the pathetic authoritarianism of spiritual administrators promoted in the fellowship to seers and sages, for nothing more than their ability to run accountancy packages and a ship shape shadow.

    Truth will not let go of you if you allow your heart to open to it.
    Love will not let go of you if you allow your heart to open to it.
    Awakening will not let go of you if you allow your heart to open to it.
    Opening your heart to: may involve some sacrifice, though.

    ‘Being is Loving by Dying’. Meher Baba

    ‘Though I speak in tongues of men and of angels…’ you know that one?
    Corinthians 1. 13.

    I am really saddened by how the fellowship seems to of turned out though it was already quite full of a kind of conscious cement. A Baba friend told me he looked into joining a fourth way group but found that everyone ‘thought in blocks’. Such is the peril of a fragmentary system, with no real lineage and no connection home to its own conscious originations, which must of, (surely?) at some time, featured such qualities as love, service and compassion. On the other hand, I’m not sure if occult ways really need such qualities to achieve their goals. Remember the wonderful stories of the charity of alchemists? How about the supreme sacrifices of the astrologers? …and all for the love of humanity.

    Anyway, I am still a bit shocked by all the data I have read, and am still very curious to discover more of all this stuff, sadly. Today I somehow began to compose a poem reflecting my recent learning – and here it is.

    My teacher was ‘thief penis mouth’
    Spunk bubbles floweth over
    Buoyed up by all his creepy mates
    In blasphemous arrogance, crime, contempt…
    And all the fates await arrayed
    For the judgement of his later days,
    When all the heavens rent with tears
    for the innocent souls he’s robbed for years.

    ‘Until the crack of doom, boys,
    Until the crack of doom, we’ll all
    Go down on his ark –
    Till Humanities expunged by Higher Forces,
    Or WE ARE (its still a lark)’.

    Two can play at crime, my dear,
    The puppets and the puppeteer,
    One by quite direct consent,
    The other by ignorance turned deaf ear:
    Less culpable, still,
    Accessories by proud ego, greed and fear.

    An understandable game to play
    When so much seems at stake;
    The stakes made high by all the lies:
    Diversion, trickery and conceit
    Make apt bedfellows for ‘conscious’ rape,
    Whilst all around the sheep do bleat
    Of higher forces and many ‘I’s
    The more so to trick you with,
    the more to reap.
    The cheques in the post, dear –
    loves true awakening sleeps hypnotized –
    but sickness poisons so,
    soul-deep.

    *** *** *** ***
    ‘This is the Kali Yuga! See the horror done in the cause of religion. Look at the massacres born out of ignorance and cruelty occurring between Hindus and Muslims, all for the sake of religion. At the same time, many false prophets have appeared and hypocrisy is rampant. People now want religious doctrines to suit their own ideas of life, and the crafty leaders who observe all this and fulfill their wishes find thousands of followers.’
    Meher Baba 1927
    http://www.lordmeher.org/index.jsp?pageBase=page.jsp&nextPage=5173


  512. Even if only temporarily the little gnome is hiding and there seem to be less of their “tootse rolls” and “soda pop” so while the water is clear and the gnomes seem to be busy else where let me take the opportunity to add something to the discussion. However be cautioned if you find the little treats the gnome leaves tasty snacks or if you are one of the unfortunates that cannot tell them apart it is unlikely my writings will provide anything useful so just skip them and save yourself the indigestion.
    ————————————————————————–

    If it is correct that a large number of Fellowship of Friends visa holders have been asked to return to their native nations it is very bad for the Fellowship. There is no longer a department of immigration and Naturalization this agency is now part of homeland security or as they called it in the Soviet Union the KGB ( internal security), or in Nazi Germany the Gestapo.

    This means there are what ever number of files 49, 59 or whatever that have had to be prepared, reviewed by various committees and action approved by the regional head of the local homeland security Agency . It appears these files would have been prepared by reviewing those applications made by The Fellowship of Friends as a group, Those familiar with how bureaucracy’s work will know that files do not disappear. If there are 59 files of inappropriate use of religious visa’s it is only a matter of time before those who signed the documents will begin to be called in for interviews. It is relatively easy to make an error on one application but on this many it is a clear and systemic abuse of the status of a religious institution

    If even a few testify that Robert knew of, suggested, approved and was complicit in the inappropriate use of religious visa’s he may find it necessary to flee the country and not return or face a real possibility of prison maybe even being held without bail as a flight risk while his case is reviewed.

    Homeland security has powers that negate individual constitutional rights. They can under some conditions hold suspects without warrant’s , without trial, hearings, contact or bail. What ever clever legal schemes the Fellowship might think it can use there is a real possibility that this is an error that it may not survive. Only a very small number of people outside the Fellowship itself know of its existence or would care even a little if its religious status was revoked.

    Already the blog has significantly reduced Robert’s personal power by making the no-contact exercise impractical. The free circulation of information is changing the quality of life within the Fellowship. Long time supporters of Robert’s policies are being exposed to criticism and they are finding it less possible to hide behind the “no gossip”, “do not express negativity” buffers.

    If homeland security begins a series of interviews it will be interesting to see who begins to act like the proverbial “rats on a sinking ship ” and where the blame is focused. What will Abraham or Linda chose if it comes down to a him or me situation? Robert’s absolute control of and claim to divine authority within the Fellowship as presented in the “canons” will make it almost impossible for him to avoid responsibility.

    ===========================================

    From a theoretical perspective this can be seen as a major note in the process or Octave of the Fellowship. On the enneagram it is represented by one or the points where the triangle touches the circle. Perhaps this is a si-do interval for the Fellowship. A si-do is the end and the beginning . Whatever is contained in the new Do will be part of the next octave. Those both in the Fellowship and outside who participate on the blog or in the greater fellowship might consider taking this opportunity to try and imagine what they might wish the future to bring and what part they could play in this.


  513. Apparently Robert Burton is planning on leaving for Italy in a few days. Many people have predicted that he would flee if things got too hot, leaving others to clean up the mess and pay the fines, serve the time, etc.


  514. 520 and 524 are newly moderated.

    Sorry for not starting a new thread today (there are over 500 comments), I am so tired and on the verge of breaking down. Too much work and more of the same until saturday (possibly sunday). Make or break.

    By the way, check out Unoanimo’s Res Ipsa Loquitur (accessible from clicking on the home button), he has been working on it for over a month now and there is loads of content.


  515. Robert borrows ideas from great men to expand his culture

    Love Malcolm

    What made Shakespeare all the sweeter,
    To Bob, the old semen eater,
    Was the rhythm of sucking cock
    unhooked from its jock
    Sounded more refined in iambic pentameter


  516. Lollipop, there was absolutely no connection so I didn’t notice. Sorry you did.


  517. I am interested to know whether the return of religious visa holders described is a decision originating within FOF to preempt governmental investigation, or the result of a governmental investigation, or both.


  518. re 530 Veronicapoe

    When things get sticky
    He hides his dicky.

    Help, Malcolm!


  519. on September 13, 2007 at 4:26 am R.I.L. Lollipop Company

    Lollipop Update #3

    530

    Asaf was the ‘do’ of all the cracker crumbs in the bed sheets, naturally, nothing preemptive about that; thank Israel too.


  520. #527

    Sheik, what’s up? You sound a bit overwhelmed and I am concerned you are not ok.
    I hope all will go well for you, whatever that may be.
    Please rest as soon as you can, take a break, your life first!

    # 524
    Thank you for your post “rain”, your poem is truly special.
    I hope it helps open the eyes of the current fof people.

    # 528
    Thank you Malcolm for the Daily Card too…


  521. Veronicapoe #20/530

    My guess is that it was preemptive because most of these folks daily activities do not really fit that of a religious worker.


  522. on September 13, 2007 at 4:38 am More history needed?

    To 520 Pieces and others,

    D_r__n will be staying – after all his Green card is in the works as a result of his ‘official’ marriage to Ed_t.

    You are kidding….Ed-th can not be that unintelligent.
    D-ria-n last year had an orgie in her house and now he is with C-r-m-n- N????


  523. on September 13, 2007 at 4:41 am R.I.L. Lollipop Company

    Lollipop Update #4

    534

    If it were “preemptive” than the individual Anna M. F____i would not be sitting under a heat lamp, not getting a tan BTW.


  524. Sheik, as Vera said, what’s up? If there’s a way to help…….

    This octave seems to be coming to an organic end and if that’s what you’re after I would very much like to thank you. It’s been a little tight to support you further but hopefully others are doing better. Should we continue, I’ll put myself up to date as soon as possible.


  525. 535 in newly moderated.

    Vera and Elena: I am just over-worked and sleep deprived. Yesterday I felt as if my whole system might shut down at any minute, but I got some sleep and I am ready to go again. I have had a very busy and stressful week, that’s all.

    Don’t worry though, except for making me a bit slower in moderation, this discussion will not be affected.


  526. Vena 526
    Italy, hmmm… if someone gives us his whereabouts there are a few people here waiting for the Beloved Teacher with hands full of fresh red tomatoes and rotten eggs…

    I know RB loves this country, but I don’t think it would be very smart of him to try to set up shop or retire here. The Italian police and Ministry of the Interior have files on the FoF which has been classified as a cult. There is also a funny story here that fellowship dentists hypnotize people by inserting slow-release narcotics in their fillings. It’s pretty amazing and I have no idea how the rumor started but every Italian site on cults repeats this info. So, instead of focusing on real abuse Italian intelligence is worrying about FoF dentists. Go figure. But we can always give them an update…


  527. thanks for you compliment, vera.

    And yes – Sheik, take it easy, take a break, things can handle themselves fine without you for a while.

    ‘you need to chill your f*ucking bones’ – elbow

    well, chill them real good and come back to this and all your other work refreshed –

    with affection,

    rain


  528. Robert’s kisses can shock you into the present

    Love Malcolm

    Said Bob “A winning game never quit,”
    a kiss on the forehead quite legit,
    then with talented mouth,
    He headed down south,
    And finished off lickety split.


  529. Robert loves to count numbers

    Love Rolex

    Bob said he loves his numbers-not the moon.
    He said he loves a bank accounts-plenty.
    He loves his students with their wallets full
    He loves them less-when empty


  530. # 535 More History needed?

    Well, as far as history has it, Ed_t did legally marry D_r_an, and as far as the information goes, she still is (green card and all). Running a business does not mean intelligent. People have done some pretty stupid things when they are glazed over with “being one of the chosen few, the only school, and the only real teacher”. Look at El_z_b_t_ with Asaf. What was all that about? If you get directives from Robert himself, while you are in the ‘glazed over’ state, anything can happen.
    Jonestown is a good example.
    Ed_t herself denied the orgies that were going on at her house when it all came out. What was all that about?
    Nice lady Ed_t, but glaze is glaze. A bit like having cataracts in your eyes, except this is in your brain (called illusion!).


  531. on September 13, 2007 at 8:08 pm R.I.L. Lollipop Company

    Lollipop Update #5

    540

    “Edit herself denied the orgies that were going on at her house when it all came out. What was all that about?”

    __________________________________________

    Well, she’s ‘right’, they were going on (at) her sauna, which is not ‘technically’ attached to her house. She’ll be talking to the INS soon enough, not to worry folks.


  532. Husband from Robert’s entourage: I don’t know why you look sad; it’s really not nice at all.
    Wife of man from Robert’s entourage: In what way is it ‘not nice’?
    Husband: Robert suggested that it would be better not to go into the details….

    *
    Husband: what do you think about group sex? I mean having more than one partner at the same time?
    Wife: (taken aback by question, suddenly anxious, sinking feeling in heart… long pause) It doesn’t appeal to me (Wonders “Am I inflexible? Robert has so many partners, one at a time of course, but… I’m not like that, why is his question so painful?… I must be very far away from consciousness…”)
    Wife: wh..why do you ask?
    Husband: Oh nothing…

    *

    Husband: What do you think about paying for sex?
    Wife: I suppose if a person cannot find a partner…
    Husband: I mean anyone even people who can find partners. It would just be an utterly neutral unemotional arrangement.
    Wife: (looks at husband he seems sure of himself… he likes this idea) I’m not sure if sex is an ‘utterly neutral’ thing. Maybe we make connections which will have many consequences, perhaps invisible to us at the time, create loose ends… (Feels terrible, why does it feel so bad when he says things like this? Is it my king of clubs and my queen of hearts, why do I mind? Robert would be different… consciousness is very far away from me…)

    *

    Husband: I have spoken to Robert and he agrees that I can still travel with him, even if I don’t… you know.

    *
    (six months and several trips later)

    Husband: (calls wife from somewhere beautiful in Italy)
    Wife: How is it? Has Robert said anything interesting?
    Husband: Nice, interesting… very much the same old thing…
    Wife: It’s so lucky that you can still travel with him even though you said “No”
    Husband: Yes, yes. How are you?
    Wife: Got a headache; don’t know why, it’s quite strong.
    Husband: I’ve got something that will help. Look on the mantle piece in my pill box. There’s a small blue tablet.

    *
    (half an hour later Husband calls back, he sounds ‘focussed’)

    Husband: Did you find the pill?
    Wife: Yes
    Husband: Er… what shape was it?
    Wife: Triangular
    Husband: Oh (protracted pause) How do you feel now?
    Wife: It didn’t help.

    *
    (A year or two later)

    Ex-husband: Now that there is some distance between us I feel I should tell you a few things.
    Ex-Wife: Yes
    Ex-Husband: You remember that time you took one of my head ache pills… Well you took the wrong one (brief laugh) yes, it was Viagra.
    Ex-wife: (becomes quite present)
    Ex-husband: You see I didn’t stop having sex with Robert.
    Ex-Wife: Nods
    Ex-Husband: And you remember I asked you about having sex with more than one partner? Well In order that the experience was less uncomfortable for me Robert suggested that my close friends participate as well…
    Ex-Wife: (very present)
    Ex-Husband: and then there’s the prostitute thing…


  533. Here are ‘a few more details’ from an earlier posting on the blog which raised a few eye-brows in this part of the world:

    Inner circle facts Says:
    March 1st, 2007 at 8:25 am
    Are you ready for some brutal facts?
    Who would like to know how its really happening in his bad room? OK folks,fasten your sit belts,the Kansas going Bye Bye…
    Did you know that usual orgies are formed from 4 to 6 student?.Usually two of them are SIMULTANEOUSLY entering Burton’s anus.Third person is laying on his back while Mr.Burton is providing him an oral sex while two from both sides are subject to the masturbation by MR.Burton with his two hands.
    Some time there is one more student who’s role is to hold Burton’s testicles in his mouth during the whole time.Prior to all, by Burton’s request Viagra pills are shared and swallowed between all members of the orgy which are constantly provided by Mr.G.
    Some time you can hear Burton’s words during the sexual activities “How incredible! We are getting closer,aren’t we?”
    Some of them are asked to suck his nipples and his toes.All sperm gets swallowed by Mr.Burton at the end of the act.But that is not all yet.
    There are two students who had the most terrifying and most humiliating role to play (in my opinion).They have to enter with their hands by their elbows into the Burton’s anus.(Looking for Consciousness perhaps)..both students are Russians.One of them had left the school and the other has been “shipped” back to Russia for disobedience.
    And now get this:
    Beside those depraved scenes there is another one which going to shake you all:
    There is another act that Burton is preforming with a specific student of his own “inner circle”.This act of Humiliation is performed in his bath room while Burton is laying down and 3 students are urinating right on him!
    And on the next morning,like nothing happened Mr.Burton is leading the meeting on Love?
    How cynical indeed!


  534. Dear Current Students,

    In case you haven’t yet: please have a look at Res Ipsa Loquitur: this contains a selection of postings from the many thousands that been submitted over the past months. They are not all as graphic as the one re-posted here at 543.

    It has been good for me to just force myself to read these letters… to keep my eyes open to What Is even when it’s not pretty.

    Have just read the Cufflinks letter (R.I.L 563 ) very touching, and difficult too…


  535. Anna (around) 543

    Here are ‘a few more details’ from an earlier posting on the blog which raised a few eye-brows in this part of the world:

    ***********

    Fellowship of Friends students, you should all be very proud to be associated with your lovely teacher. You couldn’t be more awake.


  536. 545 Graduates

    Yes, one can readily see why the FOF would be the Ark of the new civilization.

    Members…at this point, how do you live with yourselves? Are you waiting to leave with a large group to make it less painful (and personally less profound and meaningful)?


  537. on September 13, 2007 at 9:55 pm Purchasing awakening

    And while we are talking here, Robert keeps buying expensive trinkets and asking students to pay for them… Now he wants us to pay for new porcelain…

    Just go to Propylaia, click on “Hermes “Nil” Porcelain Contribution” and contribute anywhere from 10 to 1000 dollars.

    Oh yes, it will definitely help you to be more present.
    Just keep paying folks.


  538. Regarding Anna’s post (#20-543 or thereabouts).
    Some marriage! How could such a marriage threaded through and through with lies and deception, like mold in blue cheese, survive?

    Some school! How could such relationships between ‘students’ and ‘teacher’ prosper, threaded through and through with lies and deception, like mold in blue cheese (and as inseparable), survive?

    It seems the bedrock assumption in the FoF, taught by Burton over and over again, is that the ends justify the means. The system provides guidance and clues to observing the inner and outer universe by describing the law of three and the law of seven, and a tool to show how the two are connected, the enneagram. Burton and his followers prefer magical thinking. No matter that theory and observation actually show that “The means shape the end.” Always. No exceptions, even for Burton.

    So, “The mills of God grind slow, but they grind exceeding fine.” There are consequences, to lies, to deceptions, to fake ‘marriages’, to hubris, some of which are being played out before our eyes.

    Thank you again, Anna, for sharing; I wish you healing and joy.
    Ames


  539. Robert has just had sex with sweet young naive newlywed on his Renaissance honeymoon.
    “Tell me dear, was it better than with your wife?”
    Student is lost, looking for an answer.
    “Well, Robert, I think… it was different.”

    Please dear, tell me it’s closing time.
    http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/leonardcohen/closingtime.html


  540. There is a rumor that some students wanted to hear the Berlin Philharmonic and heard that instead:
    “http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2Igy3tuGsY”
    Just kidding, perhaps.


  541. 550 Opus111

    Cool. But a little “pitchey” on the whistling.

    Euro-Bono?


  542. 549 Laura

    L


  543. on September 14, 2007 at 2:20 am R.I.L. Lollipop Company

    Lollipop Update #6

    H., Drug dealer or Healer?

    The next time you sell weed, try and take a moment to educate naive experimenters as to how much to and not to smoke; no education & high levels of emotional stress can lead to an unexpected ‘overdose’. Silly boy! Even beginner Shamans know that.


  544. Flattery is the sincerest form of imitation and all that, but would you mind waiting for a few more days Rolex 542.
    I have an aim to deliver 30 daily cards to in some small way offset the dark force of the 30 imprenetrable work ‘I’s.
    Save up your ideas Rolex and when I duck out it woudl be great if you could continue holding evil at bay with crude muse.


  545. Pubic lice eggs easily pass from one hairy surface to another.

    Love Malcolm

    In the galleria, two boys were a-bitchin,
    scratichin themselves in the kitchen,
    “you’ve got crabs I suppose”,
    “from pounding the pope’s nose”,
    “Yes and those fuckers are ‘itchin!”


  546. on September 14, 2007 at 4:07 am R.I.L. Lollipop Company

    Lollipop Update #7

    539

    Laura,

    You might update the Italian Immigration, Port Authorities, Police & Airport Authorities that a Sexual Predator is going to drop his balls on Italian soil soon, in a matter of speaking, I’m sure they’d like to see how such an ‘old bull’ dodges ‘red’ in pink & blue Italian fashion.


  547. Re 553 Scorpions

    Mein lieber Herr Gesang Verein…das ist aber Ueber-Twee

    This is at least equal to Bob in the kimono…actually, it is fully in the spirit of his (lack of) taste.


  548. THE SEQUENCE:


  549. Bruce 555
    Thanks Bruce, I had meant to post the video… was a little too close to bedtime. Thanks for watching over me :)


  550. 551 Ames Gilbert

    “It seems the bedrock assumption in the FoF, taught by Burton over and over again, is that the ends justify the means. ”

    I remember very clearly in one of the old Renaissance Journals Robert saying something like, “In the school, the ends really do justify the means.” I remember being shocked that he would say that, even then, at the height of my indoctrination.

    This attitude, along with the idea of “intentional insincerity,” led to all sorts of sleazy behavior. There was one guy that used to live in a teaching house with me, who was just sort of sleazy anyway, but would forever justify his crooked schemes with work language. One time he falsified his resume blatantly in an attempt to get a job. When I questioned him about the wisdom of this, he pulled out the intentional insincerity bit. So he went to his interview, and the interviewer immediately saw through his “insincerity.” It was a programming job, and apparently she asked him to write a few lines of the code in question. The student just meekly gathered his things and slunk out, from what I could tell. At the end of his story, I asked him if maybe that wasn’t the smartest thing to do. He shrugged and said, “It’s just a life person.” Yuck.


  551. Dear Laura

    I read your brilliant breakdown of roberts psychology page 20 post 25.
    I was thinking that he was, when he began to put together his prophecies, hoping that by increasing the ‘serious’ stakes, he would make a future shock for himself that might enable a photograph of his cock-addiction. The prophecies, which he must of sincerely believed in, would serve as reminders of his real aim of awakening, which he might of hoped would calm his sex/sperm-addiction. The fellowship worked too well for that, buffered his vampiric activities and everything else that was contradictory to ‘awakening’.

    It made me think of a family in denial at a fathers sexual abuse – say, he’s buggering little roger. But how can daddy do such a thing? Mummy turns a blind eye, big sister thinks rogers being a pest… and a child is whimpering and suicidal.

    In fact, it occurs to me that the biggest denying force to the fellowship now is the fellowship, as it struggles to carry on without seriously challenging its own buffers and denial. And it probably always has been, because, in truth, it is an airless, stuffy little self-conscious room without the flow of refreshing truth and honesty to air it.

    Beware of poison from the standing water.’ William Blake

    RAPE is RAPE. RAPE is an OBJECTIVE CRIME; a CRIME that is CRIMINAL WHOEVER enacts it. And in this case, because the fellowship continues to make itself dependent on Robert, and Robert is dependant on RAPE, then the whole fellowship is dependent on RAPE. So, the fellowship itself is an abuse victim, it is roberts ‘bitch’, too asleep and too low in self-asteem to act assertively.

    What will be the future karmic result of all these thousands of people implicit in sexual abuse? Will they have to endure abuse in their next lives? Or will they, as a race, experience a kind of group karmic balancing in some future life? Meher Baba speaks of those who follow false prophets and gurus, but I can’t recall where. He said that those who follow a false teacher, are still in the same position as those following a real one. The teacher takes responsibility for the sanskaras of the student. I take this to mean the false assumptions and openness to immoral and corrupt programming out of ego and its tendency to wilt gratefully under flattery, are taken on by the ‘teacher’, and the pupil therefore left with clearer intent.

    On the other hand, the longer you turn a blind eye… what happens then?

    ‘By their fruit so shall ye know them’.

    It’s so crazy, though, and I still can’t get over it. Did William Blake nosh Samuel Palmer? did Marcus Aurelius take 50 centurians on his birthday? Did St Francis suck off his barefooted faithful? Did Christ kneel down at the Baptist’s cloth and breathe heavily? Did any of these conscious beings really indulge in this filthy, ludicrous way? Of course they didn’t. how can anyone justify this, and how can anyway say its OK? supposing if the same thing were happening to women? would that make it more OK or less OK?


  552. Dear Laura
    I read your brilliant breakdown of roberts psychology page 20 post 25.
    I was thinking that he was, when he began to put together his prophecies, hoping that by increasing the ‘serious’ stakes, he would make a future shock for himself that might enable a photograph of his cock-addiction. The prophecies, which he must of sincerely believed in, would serve as reminders of his real aim of awakening, which he might of hoped would calm his sex/sperm-addiction. The fellowship worked too well for that, buffered his vampiric activities and everything else that was contradictory to ‘awakening’.
    It made me think of a family in denial at a fathers sexual abuse – say, he’s buggering little roger. But how can daddy do such a thing? Mummy turns a blind eye, big sister thinks rogers being a pest… and a child is whimpering and suicidal.
    In fact, it occurs to me that the biggest denying force to the fellowship now is the fellowship, as it struggles to carry on without seriously challenging its own buffers and denial. And it probably always has been, because, in truth, it is an airless, stuffy little self-conscious room without the flow of refreshing truth and honesty to air it.
    ‘Beware of poison from the standing water.’ William Blake
    RAPE is RAPE. RAPE is an OBJECTIVE CRIME; a CRIME that is CRIMINAL WHOEVER enacts it. And in this case, because the fellowship continues to make itself dependent on Robert, and Robert is dependant on RAPE, then the whole fellowship is dependent on RAPE. So, the fellowship itself is an abuse victim, it is roberts ‘bitch’, too asleep and too low in self-asteem to act assertively.
    What will be the future karmic result of all these thousands of people implicit in sexual abuse? Will they have to endure abuse in their next lives? Or will they, as a race, experience a kind of group karmic balancing in some future life? Meher Baba speaks of those who follow false prophets and gurus, but I can’t recall where. He said that those who follow a false teacher, are still in the same position as those following a real one. The teacher takes responsibility for the sanskaras of the student. I take this to mean the false assumptions and openness to immoral and corrupt programming out of ego and its tendency to wilt gratefully under flattery.
    It’s so crazy, though, and I still can’t get over it. Did William Blake nosh Samuel Palmer? did Marcus Aurelius take 50 centurians on his birthday? Did St Francis suck off his barefooted faithful? Did Christ nestle gently into the beckoning folds of The Baptist, receiving more succour than we’d like to imagine? Did Rembrandt drink come out of goblets before painting his masterpieces? Did Rodney Collin take it up the arse from the mathematician then let it dribble down his mouth? Did any of these conscious beings really indulge in this filthy, ludicrous way? Of course they didn’t. how can anyone justify this, and how can anyway say its OK?


  553. I’m not sure what happens, though, when a crime is actively indulged in and when a blind eye is turned to it for years. Sanskarically, I think there must be some need for balancing there, which could possibly happen in the aftermath, the ex-student detoxing and so on. Or else, it could be something needing lifetimes of cleansing from: the tacit acceptance of spiritual corruption and phsyical abuse.

    You know about this rape, and you look glibly on.
    Wanna get fucked as a child by your parents? Want to turn pedophile on your own children?

    an excellent opportunity to divide attention and separate from the ‘I”s/identification. Sequence yourself.


  554. 565 innernaut an 551 Ames

    “The ends really do justify the means’

    He who lives by the opinion that: ‘In the school, the ends really do justify the means’ is historically seen in bad company. The expression came from Machiavelli. Who served as an advisor to Cesare Borgia. A extremely cruel creature who slathered in the 14th century half of Italy just to satisfy his personal ambition.

    Machiavelli wrote a book called ‘the ruler’ an guide to help you becoming an amoral ruler. An interesting read – but also the favorite book of people like Napoleon Bonaparte and Josef Stalin (the biggest murderer in history – killing 60 million people).

    To my understanding is the saying that ‘ the ends really do justify the means’ the essence of the triad of crime. It is the way a murderous thief thinks. Causing endless suffering for a few moments of lust and feeling superior and important.

    I hope I will have the power to stay far away forever from all abusive attitudes towards my fellowman.


  555. “Higher centers cannot appear if you’re heedless of others. External consideration is practical and humane. Look for it in the small, as well as the great, and the divine harmony that resounds throughout the universe will echo within you.”

    Robert Burton. Self Remembering. Higher Centers.

    When I asked Girard how he could equate Roberts actions with consciousness, how he could separate the abuse of integrity that was happening to each one of us by having to suffer or support what was going on in the Galleria, he said, Consciousness is above the human, I have not thought about it in those terms. Another student equally significant in the ranks said, I had never thought about it in philosophical terms.

    In the Fellowship, the indoctrination that separates the practical-human to the divine-consciouss is one of the worst damages that is being done to the possibility of developing being for being cannot develop with wrong separation.

    The practical-human has been equated in Fellowship indoctrination with human-body and the divine-conscious with higher states and the body has been saparated from the state severing the dialogue between them. The individual has also been severed from the whole and students gasp for life within themselves without being able to acknowledge life around them. The lack of communication between the sacred within and the sacred all around is what slowly diminishes the capacity for joy and leads to severe fanatism and depression.

    It seems necessary for us to understand that energies are always there at our disposition but that they take particular form according to what we do. Energies are tremendously stagnant in the Fellowship, flowing from students to Robert in a one way direction that is putrefying in decadence.

    The sacred all around us cannot be reduced to the sacred within the Fellowship only for the sacred is all around and cannot be reduced. When it does that it is nothing other than a cancer that has turned against the all encompassing human.

    This division expresses practically in the fellowship individuals as much as in the Fellowship community in innumerable forms.

    Girard’s stroke is no coincidence and the fact that he has literally, physically divided into two parts is the tragic expression of a much greater phenomenon.

    Robert’s struggle between his male and female is another expression of this. Also Robert’s philosophy, which was unable to move from self-remembering to external consideration and became stagnant is the same expression of the Fellowship organization in which Robert became a King and not a teacher, the fellowship a retrograding monarchy and not a school for human development.

    In students, the expressions of this same phenomena have taken multiple forms. Students struggle to become more human and embrace Robert’s teaching from different cultures but at the same time knock themselves against the wall of not being able to go beyond Robert himself into the genuine human spirit present in all cultures and in all individuals.

    Students struggle to become present but deny the divine in front of them. Nothing except Robert is divine. Life within marriages is equally disrupted. The men have acquired a very comfortable status of being higher than women in the ranks and think it is their higher self what is unable to commit with full integrity to the family. The family can be raped any time Robert wants to go to bed with the husband. Any time the husband wants to do something for himself without having to share the work within the family and any time having to assume responsibility can be discharged by it being nothing but “feminine dominance”

    In loosing the struggle within themselves to develop their manhood in human dynamics, they cannot develop being but can underdevelop it and move backwards in their own process. They justify this within themselves by convincing themselves that they have committed to a higher cause than the woman, the lower instincts, but at the same time give way to extreme expressions of infrasex in pornography, multiple sex and gradually loosing the capacity for simple direct human contact with those immediately around them.

    The women are driven further and further away from themselves into a position in which either they accept and support the form thoroughly against their own integrity or go crazy and depressed. The first ones fall into greater and greater forms of fanatism and if the second ones stay, they too disguise the condition with extreme expressions of enlightened joy as my dear friend Helen has done.
    Those in between justify themselves trying to live a life outside of it all, investing their energy in areas that can keep some balance around their self worth but also fall into strange behavior. Edith, a fascinating woman, no doubt, a great woman probably in so many ways, but Edith……. where is the limit.

    How can one live with building an ark for humanity and at the same time kill six billion of them and all those who leave the small confines of the Fellowship? Because the six million dead people in the planet that Robert has made of our feeling for humanity is no joke. It is an attitude that slowly replaces the most inspiring source of our ideals.

    How can one strive for wholeness and at the same time separate into pieces?

    On a different subject, I’ve had this itch in my mind that I said I am not writting to all of you but what I meant is that when I express deep anger I am writting only to a few who produced it at some point in the Fellowship with Dorothy’s play. I do try to write for all of us and beyond rebuilding my own picture, have much appreciated the participation of everyone here. I beg you forgive me if I too am much damaged to express love in a better way.

    .


  556. Dear Laura,

    Thanks bunches for the You-Tube, Leonard Cohen,
    CLOSING TIME. I guess that summarizes it nicely.


  557. #568 Elena:

    Elena,

    There is no need to apologize. Yours is one of the clearest, most coherent voices on the blog. The quality of your writing (even though English is not your first language) reveals a truth that has evolved from a rigorous intellectual examination and an enormous emotional investment. Thank you for sharing your evolution.

    Tim


  558. Well said “Rain”:

    “In fact, it occurs to me that the biggest denying force to the fellowship now is the fellowship, as it struggles to carry on without seriously challenging its own buffers and denial. And it probably always has been, because, in truth, it is an airless, stuffy little self-conscious room without the flow of refreshing truth and honesty to air it.”

    ‘Beware of poison from the standing water.’ William Blake


  559. Tim Campion
    #568 Elena:

    Elena,

    There is no need to apologize. Yours is one of the clearest, most coherent voices on the blog.

    **************

    ???


  560. Rain (#20-566 or thereabouts), thank you for pointing out Laura’s (#20-25) post. I’ve not been able to keep up with the blog lately, and I would have been sorry to miss that one.

    Laura, you are a great writer; you are so fluent in any terms, it’s hard to remember that English is not your native language! You have come closest to expressing in words what my emotional center is feeling about this situation and the history of Burton and the Fellowship of Friends.

    I’d be interested in what you intuit our collective or individual responsibility might be, as co–actors and enablers, as donors of our individual power for a length of time, short or long, to Burton. What does your emotional center say about our complicity?

    It is said that any situation and any person can be healed, regenerated—if they first ask for help. I wonder if it is ‘right action’ to creatively imagine someone asking for help, as a necessary prerequisite to creatively imagining them healed in one’s higher mind’s eye? Do we have any responsibility in this matter, or are we finished with it all when we ‘escape’? I’d appreciate your thoughts.

    Thank you for your wonderful gifts to us all,
    Ames


  561. Bob does not negotiate.
    Love Malcolm

    A male/female transgender sexual experiment from Rangoon
    got invited into Bob’s bed room
    they did argue and fight
    all thru the night
    as to who would do what and to whom


  562. 568: “How can one live with building an ark for humanity and at the same time kill six billion of them and all those who leave the small confines of the Fellowship?”

    I had lunch last November at ApolloD at one of those randomly assembled tables where I didn’t know the other diners very well. Someone said “Wasn’t the world meant to end yesterday?”. Someone replied “Yes, but I heard that Robert has said that it might in fact occur next Wednesday.” The conversation continued along these lines, in similar tones to those used by people discussing a weather report and whether it might rain tomorrow. I had an overwhelming feeling I was sitting with a group of insane people.


  563. This year, for Christmas, Robert is asking all serious students to consider donating for a very special present that RB’s been dreaming of for years.

    official FOF video:


  564. Tim, thank you. And Renald, much enjoyed your versions, any others?

    On Music and Masculinity.

    I’m interested in exploring two areas of our life in the Fellowship. One is related to how culture was brought without the essence of culture which is the human emotion behind it. I imagine others see it different so I would like to know how others see it.

    What I mean is that almost everything we did and all the so called ART that we were exposed to seemed to be enveloped in false personality with the exception of a few artists such as Brian Ganz.

    I was listening to Argentinian Folk music today which has deep masculine voices, many with solo men singing about existence and had the feeling that I’d been starved from such impression for seventeen years.

    I did the classical music excercise for two years first and then practically for fourteen years after that. My impression was that indeed I had understood a level of sophistication (in the good sense of the word) in classical music that other music did not have but as I listened to folk today, it was also clear that it did not lack any soul even if it wasn’t sophisticated. Do others have the impression that the indoctrination went even down to that? That “life”, the “human” was sucked out of us without mercy even in relation to impressions? I don’t mean that “the human” is not in classical music, I know it is there, beautifully, but the way we “experienced” or “shared’, was so cold. Wasn’t it precisely, “false personality” but dressed in silk? There were exceptions. The cellar music in the winery had something else.

    Perhaps one of the difficulties for me was also in the fact that the “artists” handled the show with all that vanity and exclusivity so common also in life. I felt this more in the theater than with the musicians. The feeling is strongly that culture was brought in without the human behind it. As if the human could be sucked out of it. Yes, we listened to the Italian Opera but it was almost as if they managed to take the “Italian” out of it and left only the sound and it wasn’t the artists who clearly played with love and effort but something in the setting seemed to be appreciating only the act and not even the artists.

    [I am coming to the conviction that this coldness, this lack of the human touch in Robert’s alchemy, is very much a part of his inability to establish or relate to simple human contact. He needs impressions to be so polished as if he invested in adorning things what he lacks in being able to appreciate them emotionally, to touch them with his soul. He calls it “King of Hearts” but there’s no soul in it. Girard does something very similar but with totally different things.]

    This is my impression also with the whole of Robert’s act. This pretty looking gray haired man often acting like a shy, cute, lady saying I love you my darlings and giving explanations to every quote as if the bunch of us were totally incapable of coming to our own understandings of what was being said. And then people ask how it is that they are being indoctrinated.

    And then that most amazing theater from Judith in which everything that was said was then keyed. Boy, that was hard to swallow without yelling.

    Then the waltzes, fun yes, but didn’t it all have a taste of fantasy? A disneyland comfort in which we played the puppets? All very pretty dears but don’t you dare speak. Not a word. Only sequences.

    The other aspect I’m wondering about is what did it feel like for the men to have to act like polished shoes all the time?

    I mean, we’ve suggested that Robert demeanored women but did he not equally demeanor the masculine? The open male energy, was it not reduced? Listening to Girard’s In friendship, the “mannerism” is so clear in his voice. The indoctrination is endless in the words but much more significant than that is the tone of the voice which is clearly like a mother talking to her little children. What was it like for other men?

    Robert T. just came into my mind as one who did not play along with that act and always seemed to be very nicely out of tune, for my taste. Unfortunately other acts were as difficult to swallow. Steven D. also played a different act. He was beautifully masculine but like Girard seemed to rely on the martial act without any relativity to it. He seemed to be copying Girard for years then Robert told them being too efficient wasn’t “it” either. Why did he wait twenty years to let them know? He no longer wanted them to do, do, do, I guess he felt they had already put us all in the done, done, done, like in My Fair Lady’s; “done in” and he was ready to get the men to start walking on tip toes like the ballet dancers he so much enjoyed.

    I wish to look at this “figures” of the fellowship because they played a significant public role in which the indoctrination was passed on. I have nothing personal against any one of them, most particularly because I see they were as indoctrinated as I was. I am simply trying to convey an idea and explore the “indoctrination through impressions rather than theory”.

    Thank you for sharing.


  565. on September 15, 2007 at 6:07 am R.I.L. Lollipop Company

    Lollipop Update #8

    577

    Bruce ~

    Besides the galactic indifference initiated upon the dualistic choice-carpet flowing beneath my theatrical psyches current conundrum, I have successfully resisted the initial reflex and dived deeper into a great seaside, solitude-istical Thank You for that video… so, thank you.


  566. Charles T 575

    Someone said “Wasn’t the world meant to end yesterday?”. Someone replied “Yes, but I heard that Robert has said that it might in fact occur next Wednesday.”

    **********


  567. Sharing is one of the most blessed gifts of true friendship.

    Love Malcolm

    There was one of Bob’s potpourri,
    Who said “Jeez, how it hurts me to pee.”
    “I see,” said his roommate,
    “That accounts for the state
    Of roommate 2, roommate 3 and of me”


  568. More than meets the eye…
    Have you heard the story of Phineas Gage? Here is an extrapolation based on further research…
    “The studies described above concern patients whose social behavior has been compromised by observable and relatively discrete brain lesions. THERE ARE, HOWEVER, MANY CASES OF INDIVIDUAL WHO LACK MACROSCOPIC BRAIN DAMAGE AND WHO EXHIBIT PATHOLOGICAL SOCIAL BEHAVIOR.” (caps added by me for emphasis). “These people fall into two categories: people with anti-social personality disorder (APD) and the subset of these individuals known as psychopaths.

    Anti-social personality disorder is a catch-all label for whatever it is that causes some people to habitually violate our more serious social norms, typically those that are codified in our legal system (DSM IV, 1994). Psychopaths not only engage in anti-social behavior, but exhibit a pathological degree of callousness, lack of empathy or emotional depth, and lack of genuine remorse for their anti-social actions (Hare, 1991). In more intuitive terms, the difference between APD and psychopathy is something like the difference between a hot-headed barroom brawlerand a cold-blooded killer.

    Psychopaths appear to be special in a number of ways (Blair, 2001). First, while the behavioral traits that are used to diagnose APD correlate with IQ and socioeconomic status, the traits that are distinctive of psychopaths do not (Hare, et al.,1991). Moreover, the behaviors associated with APD tend to decline with age, while the psychopath’s distinctive social-emotional dysfunction holds steady (Harpur andHare, 1994).

    Psychopathy is a complicated syndrome that has subtle and not-so-subtle effects on a wide range of behaviors, including many behaviors that, superficially at least, have nothing to do with morality. At the same time, however, psychopathy appears to be a fairly specific syndrome. Psychopaths are not just people who are unusually anti-social. Using the proper methods, psychopaths are clearly distinguishable from others whose behavior is comparably anti-social, suggesting that the immoral behavior associated with psychopathy stems from the malformation of specific cognitive structures that make important contributions to moral judgment.

    Moreover, these structures seem to be rather “deep” in the sense that they are not well-defined by the concepts of ordinary experience and, more to the point, ordinary learning. Psychopaths do not appear to be people who have, through some unusual set of experiences, acquired unusual moral beliefs or values. Rather, they appear to have an abnormal but stereotyped cognitive structure that affects a wide range of behaviors…

    Psychopaths exhibit a lower level of tonic electrodermal activity and show weaker electrodermal responses to emotionally significant stimuli than normal individuals (Hare and Quinn, 1971). A more recent study (Blair, et al., 1997) compares the electrodermal responses of psychopaths to a control group of criminals who, like the psychopathic individuals, were serving life sentences for murder or manslaughter. While the psychopaths resembled the other criminals in their responses to threatening stimuli (e.g. an image of a shark’s open mouth) and neutral stimuli (e.g. an image of a book), they showed significantly reduced electrodermal responses to distress cues (e.g. an image of a crying child’s face) relative to the control criminals, a fact consistent with the observation that psychopathic individuals appear to have a diminished capacity for emotional empathy. An earlier study (Blair, 1995) revealed that psychopaths, unlike ordinary criminals, have an impoverished appreciation of what is known as the “moral”/”conventional” distinction (Turiel, 1983).”

    Here’s more…
    http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~jgreene/GreeneWJH/Greene-InnatenessChapter.pdf


  569. Daily Card and Bruce
    LOL! Especially thanks to you Malcolm, for your adamant committment to the fight against the Dark Empire.

    Graduates 580
    The Clash, now these guys seemed to have some integrity, didn’t they?
    BTW, are you fellow Clash lovers aware that Paul Simonon is still kicking ass with The Good The Bad And The Queen? Which gives me an excuse to post this cool video featuring some of our sufi brothers (cousins?) getting high up there somewhere.
    Rock on, people!
    http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=mKvCEUJfQA4&mode=related&search=


  570. something for non-readers…

    a good example of “psychological thinking.”

    elena, could you show this to girard?


  571. on September 15, 2007 at 5:26 pm Bistro Fundraiser

    In post 225 above, I copied a long excerpt from the book by Haruki Murakami titled: “Underground: The Tokyo Gas Attack and the Japanese Psyche”, where the writer delves into the thinking of various members of the religious cult Aum Shinrikyo.

    The following is a slightly shortened version of that excerpt. It highlights some paragraphs that I believe are particularly relevant to us — members of the Fellowship of Friends, and former members of the Fellowship of Friends.

    I don’t believe the FOF is headed toward a violent end — in other words, something similar to Jonestown or Aum — but to me the parallels and comparisons are startling enough to mention them here. And the parallels and comparisons are important enough to pause and think about what kind of risk we are taking as members/followers of the FOF. Can we really be sure that something even more destructive (even more destructive than what we’ve already seen in the Fellowship of Friends) is not possible in the future?

    Personally, I don’t think we can be sure of that. We are well past the point of describing the FOF as a “benign” organization that does no harm. The Fellowship of Friends does harm, both to its members and to society at large. And beyond simply leaving the cult, I often ask myself what I have done to oppose it. Honestly, almost nothing. Even if the FOF simply fades into the night, barely a footnote in anyone’s memory 100 years from now, my question is whether or not each of holds some responsibility in this. To answer my own question: Yes, we do hold responsibility — each of us — as long as we stay, as long as we say nothing, as long as we continue to deny.

    Much love to you all.

    …………………………………………………………………

    Most of the defendants have lost all faith in Shoko Asahara as their guru. The leader they revered turned out to be nothing more than a false prophet, and they understand now how they were manipulated by his insane desires… [At] a certain point in their lives they abandoned the world and sought a spiritual utopia in Aum Shinrikyo, something they do not repent or regret…
    …………………………………………………………………

    They still believe that they are at a higher spiritual level than “ordinary people” and have a sense of being specially chosen… “If only he [Shoko Asahara] hadn’t gone over the edge we would have been able to pursue our religious goals peacefully and correctly, without bothering anyone.” In other words, “The results were bad, and we regret them. However, the basic aims of Aum Shinrikyo are not flawed, and we don’t feel there’s any need to reject them outright.”
    …………………………………………………………………

    To all of them, I posed the same question, that is, whether they regretted having joined Aum. Almost everyone answered: “No, I have no regrets. I don’t think those years were wasted.” Why is that? The answer is simple — because in Aum they found a purity of purpose they could not find in ordinary society. Even if in the end it became something monstrous, the radiant, warm memory of the peace they originally found remains inside them and nothing else can easily replace it.
    …………………………………………………………………

    In that sense, the Aum path is still open to them. I don’t mean that former members are likely to return to the fold. They are aware now that it is a very flawed and dangerous system, and agree that the years they passed in Aum were filled with contradictions and defects. At the same time I got the impression that, to a greater or lesser degree, there is still within them an Aum ideal — a utopian vision, a memory of light, imprinted deep inside them.
    …………………………………………………………………

    The question was asked over and over gain: “How could such elite, highly educated people believe in such a ridiculous, dangerous new religion?”
    …………………………………………………………………

    More or less all of us want answers to the reasons why we’re living on this earth, and why we die and disappear. We shouldn’t criticize a sincere attempt to find answers. Still, this is precisely the point where a kind of fatal mistake can be made. The layers of reality begin to be distorted. The place that was promised, you suddenly realize, has changed into something different from what you’re looking for.
    …………………………………………………………………

    We need to realize that most of the people who join cults are not abnormal; they’re not disadvantaged; they’re not eccentrics. They are the people who live average lives (and maybe from the outside, more than average lives), who live in my neighborhood. And in yours.

    … Perhaps there’s some pain they’re carrying around inside… That might very well be me. It might be you.
    …………………………………………………………………


  572. To Elena #578

    When I joined the school in 1976 I had the very distinct awareness that there was something askew with the masculine element in the school. I remember thinking to myself, “There are no men in the school.” Of course there were men but they were very passive and/or very effeminate. The men that did not fall into that catagory still had something missing. It was hard to define but when I looked at a general cross section of men
    it was not represented in the FOF.

    Many years ago an older woman in the school asked Robert why there were no mature men in the school. He said that the school was young and needed nurturing and that was why there were mature women but not men.

    But as I said, my first reaction to this phenonmen was very strong, my internal comment to myself was, “There are no men in this school.”

    Just to add – I had been in the Gurdjieff Foundation in N.Y. in the mid-60’s and there were many very accomplished, mature, professional men – men with confidence and experience who took the Work very seriously but didn’t need to give up any of their essentail nature to participate in esoteric work. I suppose someone with more knowledge of psychology might have
    some insight into this.


  573. Bistro Fundraiser #584:

    “We are well past the point of describing the FOF as a “benign” organization that does no harm. The Fellowship of Friends does harm, both to its members and to society at large. And beyond simply leaving the cult, I often ask myself what I have done to oppose it. Honestly, almost nothing. Even if the FOF simply fades into the night, barely a footnote in anyone’s memory 100 years from now, my question is whether or not each of holds some responsibility in this. To answer my own question: Yes, we do hold responsibility — each of us — as long as we stay, as long as we say nothing, as long as we continue to deny.”

    This is a very alive question for many of us, but I for one, have not come to an understanding for myself of what I might do. What kind of action are you suggesting?


  574. RE. 578 Elena

    Via Gra Falls ——->

    Green Cards Wanted

    Help Needed


  575. on September 15, 2007 at 6:09 pm R.I.L. Lollipop Company

    Lollipop Update #9

    “A good conscience is a continual feast.”

    Quote from the Robert Burton of the 1600’s

    _________________________________

    Reincarnation anyone?


  576. Ooop Spendsky Office—–>

    Help Needed
    Life People Need NOT Apply

    Beware Of The Hog

    Income Sequential School

    Came Bridge Circle———->

    <——-Daisy Chain Circle


  577. on September 15, 2007 at 6:40 pm Way.of.the.Slow.Man

    585 Vena, 578 Elena, et al

    The Good Eunuch Act

    After I had been in the school several years and sent to open a couple of centers, had survived and returned to the Bay Area, I was introduced to a fellowship pianist (…a keyboardist as opposed to a penisist, one of Just-Plain-Bob’s victims).

    The pianist was a wonderful person, very gentle, solar-something and I found myself saying some inane “Hello, so glad to blah, blah, …” during the greeting but in a higher pitched, exceedingly soft voice with my hands open and outstretched.

    What a shock to see myself trying the good student act and seeing it was a caricature of a man who was not a man.

    I suppose that was one point in the beginning of my multi-year departure. After that, on new introductions, I said “Hi” and shook hands.


  578. 578 Elena

    Let’s see what happens this time. My last 15 or so did not go through even after two tries.

    INS———>

    OUTS
    Daisy Chain Way———>

    The one above was half deleted so I am trying it again.
    Help Wanted.
    Life people need NOT apply


  579. It is an achievement of a sort, to do what Robert has done.

    Love Malcolm

    Bob’s sexual conquests are no mean feat
    He runs his boys like a well ordered fleet
    No need to get all sentimental
    Cos the vehicles are just a rental
    And he gets more ass than a toilet seat


  580. Softness theater staging in the interpreting rainstorm,

    Circus midget, buckled up, chin between her knees, begging for height… God has no last name;

    alpine chilled spring thawed rolling hills, nets spreading from herself… 12 apostles pulled in, against their recklessness, they do not waiver… 3 heads on silver platters, queens dipping their serpentine fingernails in goblets of alpha-wine-flavor,

    Quiet space, black, black, onyx depth finding garnet diamond cutter unemployed,

    RED

    Orange sun setting horizontally, no more ups and downs… waves flow backwards,
    Shoreline quiet, a funneling sound, steeples of ‘where you were and where I am’,

    All the artifacts of earth run to the earth’s axis to form a collision, a burst of one vision-ed tears provision, a lake containing the fate of a day long evaporation, relations dwindle down to the simplicity of a hospital visit, the quiet emergency room prior to the school bus collision, no reminders of culture, simple care and dwindling repairs to corroboration,

    Viciousness, pit bull grocery store shopper,
    Love deems the newest settler to flip the Chieftain ‘the bird’,

    Jewelry shatters in response to the body forgetting how to hold it all together, wine is stone drunk before it leaves the bottle, orgasm-ing pouring the throat’s agreement to certify all that flows here tonight is a soul-provision, revision, demolition and stitches that a continent of grandmothers would swoon to sow; for now they wait, they rock back and forth, sub consciously imitating the ocean’s worth, dried up wombs long ago, beset by a wisdom that propels those births beyond their suicidal intermissions, the withering, the slosh of an early springtime’s call, to the robins, to arrive, to listen, to bend ever so gently the bright green grass so to visit hunger’s answer over and over its fulfilling.

    Snow falls in her supplicant snow colored hands, as the ‘man’ pounds from the inside of his heads temple walls grounding… Trumpets have not been invented yet, he sways within a migraine nemesis, no regrets, self-preservation begets, visions of all the loose ends, the second deceased twin, the woman in a shirt covered with grapefruit patterns, magnets pushing one another off the poker table, gods cleaning out the two legged horse stables; sanitation cheers and the goblets ring their final crystal cracks, burgundy breaths splattering across dew meadows satin woven linen quits bequeathed,

    The test, long ago passed, resurrects, pushing the round stone easily aside, decides, to reverse it all; it’s too bright outside the sun, staying within, the molten, grown-up-twin, embracing the bare skinned moon goddesses retrograde cosmic skin, she visits every night so to glow the following eve, Adam has forgotten himself, he’s inside the apple she eats and needs,

    Moans of whole vineyards being usurped, a holy communion underneath the Garden of The Serpents south bound descent mirth, the caves of Eden holding the earth-wound flourishes steady, cavities of warmth, pentacles, stalagmites, stalactites almost touching,

    Goal-slippery Cleopatra needles, that ropes, hopes, fakir tokes cannot tackle, haggle,

    The drip dropping of bloods vacating feminine monthly principle, the iron taste upon the lovers last waist embrace, above lips forgetting the face-expression simply, porch swings crash cotton sounding to the music of dandelions floating their parachute-seeds, fireflies whispering shadows into bright white bed sheets, true love needs no teasing,

    God has no fist to shake, quiet, well deserved peace is broken by an earthquake, a dust filled inhale, the dual-balloon sails, poison washes across an expression who draws a blank, as its earth-heartbeat ceases, an angel records the last breaths as he and she, him and daughter, the last of their kind to envision the earth, both blink out, simultaneously,

    A panther drags a beast three times its weight up a tree,
    Millionaire, lost, on empty, staggering to the roadside covered in hives, divorce possessed, grinning, displaying a blush, fumbling to pay an attendant who does not exist, mumbling something about a double marriage certificate, his twin brother and Swiss bank account, the goat he mounted;

    Circus midget goes into a cage; inside resides a twenty year old, never mated, male lion; balls on fire as he rushes as far as an eye blink, years of beating has eclipsed his taste for fresh meat, his identity is the condensation upon the rusting bars; her fever, his last attempt to be rebirth through its nervous breakdown and the logistics of swallowing far too many hopeful pills, concentrated capsules containing the star dust of every wished upon star, that fell, behind her back, as she stood to quiet what could not ever proceed the ringing of a bell, that personal lotus hell.

    Mothers and fathers curse the day god commissioned their births, to make some field of Impressionist hay bails swoon, boost and groom them for more portraiture while lazy waiting.

    Island parrots swarm towards a gardener’s confusion,
    He’s awakened to a rainbow-island having settled upon his desert-gardens barren afternoon; he sneezes and the three-second-paradise flight-parades away, as his heart crumbles it’s breakfast cereal into satan’s strawberries and milk, diabolical felt-painting,

    The circus midget has found god, she’s running across the Sahara desert on stilts, weeping, reciting some ancient Gregorian chant, trailed in the glory of every stone whose absorbed by her solitude’s warmth since age one, every frog she’s saved from gluttonous pelican boredoms, every love she’d wished upon and who did fall, straight through her fingers as black sand only could after being removed from the context of castle desiring plans. She’s taller than god ever commissioned, without his permission, she’s four feet more now and floating towards Jupiter’s moons on another millionth mission.


  581. Robert went to Europe to make some money

    Love Rolex

    Once upon the time
    Bob met prospective client
    He gave new student wine and told him
    “Dear,I like your kind,don’t make me wait,please open up your shrine”


  582. Daily card ~

    Your humor is a disgrace to the space and duty of conscience unabated by your, the making of fun. of that which you seem to wish to crystallize into seeming unwilling to be ever loved and understood.


  583. on September 16, 2007 at 7:36 am Crouching Tiger

    Vena(585) and Elena(578):

    I agree entirely with your comments on the production of ‘real men’ in the Fellowship. As a man, they certainly harmonise with my experience.

    The Fellowship subtly (and not-so-subtly) increases the male sense of dependence, the umbilical cord to ‘Mother Robert’. Probably Robert would prefer to see himself as a matriarch rather than a patriarchal figure. The effect as Vena says is to render Males more passive and effeminate than they actually ARE.

    This expressed itself in little things – I was always complimented when I wore ‘feminine’ colours at events, like pink shirts, or something floral in a lapel… Other men made a point of trying to kiss me on the lips when greeting, women tended to offer their cheeks. I remember getting a particularly glutinous ‘kiss’ from AG after one event in Turkey!

    I remember experiencing a kind of neutering of the sex centre, that it wasn’t encouraged to develop as a normal part of life. This was thrown into very sharp relief when I began working for a National sporting team in a testosterone-filled environment. That did me a lot of good in the circumstances.

    When I began to look at the Fellowship ‘from the outside-in’ in the last eighteen months or so and feel more separate from its energies, I started to experience a number of interesting developments almost immediately. My career which I’d tended to neglect – ‘the School is the only umbilical cord you’ll ever need’ -, came back on track, and I returned to my creative pursuits like writing poetry, which also got put ‘on hold’ in the School environment. Especially in the last few months before leaving, relationships of all kinds with women became far more relaxed and fulfilling…

    The symbolic, and sometimes physical figure of Robert (if you’re really unfortunate) stands between male-female connections in the School. The natural attraction tends to get ‘channelled’ through him as either an invisible or highly visible 3rd force, and this does not produce desirable results internally. It tends to produce deviancies or dark spinoffs in the men, from interest in pornography (as Elena stated) when a real woman is available, to domestic violence (Anna), interest in under-age children and of course in heterosexual men (Robert).

    Nicholas B. (1992-2007)


  584. Thank you Ton and Bistro, (it does sound funny doesn’t it?) Your posts are horrifyingly familiar.

    Thank you Vena and Fast man! For talking and sharing. For being here.

    Welcome Uno.

    This questioning cannot stop because so many of us need serious help. Hopefully not violent help, just serious help, both in and out. But like with someone drowning, it is an art to give or receive help. An art we are being challenged to learn.


  585. Elena 595

    This questioning cannot stop because so many of us need serious help.

    ***********


  586. on September 16, 2007 at 8:41 am Old Fish In The Sea

    I’m not religious but …

    If I have one prayer tonight, it is that I will learn to see what is wrong in my life, and have the courage to stand up against it, or at least remove myself from its influence.

    Samual S., Miles, Joel , Dale and Pamela O., Dennis and Elena L., Marty A., Stephen W., Patrick and Susan T., Charles R., James T., James B., Sandra C. and so many others – so many of the most sincere, talented and intelligent people left and I was hardly curious.

    From some I received letters. I read them, they penetrated, even hurt, some even made me wonder, even physically shake, but soon I buffered the message and returned to my comfort, returned to supporting the FOF and Robert. Incredible! It is hard to fathom that my buffers were so impenetrable.

    Then there was the Busby letter. 1984, 1998 even 2006. My own experiences of betrayal. So many chances to leave.

    Shocking and sad that I did not have the confidence or strength to give my perecptions the space they needed but instead shoved them aside, holding strong to my shaky FOF worldview. Shocking and sad that I watched Robert and his entourage day after day, knowing what that implied, with no real effort to help clean it up or even to quit supporting it.

    Sad that I buffered so deeply the many cult behaviours and the poor judgement from the teacher. Even sadder that the buffering was sometimes called transformation.

    And if anyone spoke about it, I nervously looked down or tried to help them buffer like me. I did not want to speak about it for long.

    What good is our intelligence if we can’t use it to make things better?

    What if we could have cleaned up the FOF and put it back in householder – brought balance, honesty, frugality, decency, fairness, love, and simplicity? I know many tried. I don’t think it was possible. I sincerely believe the dream was too strong and too prevalent and we were mostly afraid of Robert, afraid of being asked to leave the FOF, humiliated and expelled.

    I have paid dearly for my inabillity to leave the FOF. Robert’s karma somehow extends to all of us that supported it and who were known to be associated with it, and it continues to affect some of my business relations. I saw this clearly today. We truly are judged, to some degree, by the company we keep.

    If I have one prayer tonight, it is that I will learn to see what is wrong in my life and have the courage to stand up against it or at least remove myself from its influence.

    Best wishes to all,
    Old Fish


  587. Ames Gilbert #573:

    “I’d be interested in what you intuit our collective or individual responsibility might be, as co–actors and enablers, as donors of our individual power for a length of time, short or long, to Burton. What does your emotional center say about our complicity?”

    Bistro Fundraiser #584:

    “We are well past the point of describing the FOF as a “benign” organization that does no harm. The Fellowship of Friends does harm, both to its members and to society at large. And beyond simply leaving the cult, I often ask myself what I have done to oppose it. Honestly, almost nothing. Even if the FOF simply fades into the night, barely a footnote in anyone’s memory 100 years from now, my question is whether or not each of holds some responsibility in this. To answer my own question: Yes, we do hold responsibility — each of us — as long as we stay, as long as we say nothing, as long as we continue to deny.”

    Vena #586:

    “This is a very alive question for many of us, but I for one, have not come to an understanding for myself of what I might do. What kind of action are you suggesting?”

    This “complicity / conscience / responsibility issue” is also a big question – perhaps THE question – for me. My own response to it has mostly been to post my thoughts here, and to specifically target current members with my messages. However, at a certain point this type of communication began to feel redundant and irrelevant. After all, it’s all pretty much been said by now, hasn’t it? For any current FOF member reading this blog I think the seed for leaving has probably been well planted, or else it never will be.

    Consequently I wrote several letters this summer as a continuation of the sense of responsibility I personally feel as a (for the most part) passive “enabler” for many years in the FOF. The responses below may provide some practical insight into “paths of conscience” available beyond the blog, provided both the will and the necessary resources for taking action were to come together. For myself, I reached an emotional impasse following the third one, and have taken a wait-and-see attitude since.

    The first response is from the Yuba County DA; the second from a legal friend of mine; and the third from a small town reporter at a nearby newspaper.
    _______________________________________

    Response #1

    Good evening Mr. G –

    This office reviews criminal investigations submitted to us by law enforcement agencies to determine what evidence is legally admissible and what, if any crime, is supported by that evidence. Any investigatory work done by this office is supplementary to the original investigation. Your e-mail suggests that there would be a variety of legal issues concerning the conduct you describe – including the laws that govern the time limitations in which a criminal case can be filed, jurisdiction over the location of the alleged acts, and issues regarding consensual acts as opposed to forcible acts.

    The case decisions that govern the criminal “rape” statutes can be somewhat complex, especially in the area of actual or apparent consent. It is rarely helpful to look at selected language from a particular case decision and apply it generally to the crime. The quotation you provided is perhaps a good example: rape is what is termed a specific intent crime, and cannot be committed through what might be generally called negligence. Generally, if a “perpetrator” subjectively believes that the “victim” is consenting, and the surrounding circumstances are not inconsistent with that belief, there has been no criminal act. “Date rape” cases are an example of such a problem.

    You are correct in stating that we take sexual assault cases seriously. We have a number of prosecutors on staff who have specialized in evaluating and presenting these cases. If a case concerning Mr. Burton was investigated and presented by law enforcement to the office it would be evaluated in a similar manner as all sexual assault cases submitted for our review.

    I am limited in terms of any advice or further information I can give you concerning any actions you may contemplate regarding Mr. Burton. I do hope that you have found the general information I have provided to be somewhat helpful.

    Patrick McGrath
    _______________________________________

    Response #2

    Joseph:

    Based on this, I would say that it’s a dead end only as to whether you can expect further action at this point from Mr. McGrath’s office. His response struck me as reasonable and predictable because of the nature of his official duties. As a lawyer, I’m used to officials telling me that they “can’t give legal advice,” or making other statements that seem unhelpful, but I understand them to mean that they feel their duties preclude them from going further than they already have, rather than that they aren’t sympathetic or believe my situation to lack merit.

    Part of the difficulty you’re having is that rape being a criminal, as opposed to civil, aspect of the law, you’re dependent on government prosecutors to decide whether to pursue it, regardless of how clear it may be that a crime has been committed. What McGrath may be trying to say is that, as a bureaucratic matter, his office doesn’t get involved until a specific complaint ,about a specific alleged crime, has been made, typically to a police officer in the first instance, who then takes the case to the DA’s office to consider prosecution, which the DA will then evaluate based on the circumstances of the case–the strength of the evidence being particularly important, since what DAs are most concerned about is whether they can convict. It doesn’t surprise me that the DA’s office would shy away from giving a legal opinion on whether what Burton does may be construed as rape in the abstract; it just isn’t what they do, and they also wouldn’t want to venture any guesses that could come back to haunt them in the absence of evidence.

    What avenues might be more productive would depend on what you’re really after. If you want to know what the law of rape covers, you should probably consult a criminal defense lawyer (or a prosecuting attorney with whom you, or someone, have a friendly enough relationship that he or she would be willing to chat off the record, since you can’t hire a prosecutor). As McGrath points out, it’s going to be very fact-specific; whether it’s “rape” will depend on exactly what happened. If you’re wondering whether there are any sort of legal remedies against Burton, a tort lawyer, especially one with some background in cult suits (like the man who represented Troy) might be worth a consultation. You can’t sue someone for rape (although you can sue someone for the harm that results from having been raped), but there are a variety of civil claims that are less dependant on what McGrath refers to as “specific intent,” which is a hallmark of a criminal act. (That is, most criminal acts require a degree of intent, since in theory we punish people criminally for being intentionally “bad.” But people may be sued successfully to compensate for harm if they have been merely negligent, that is, for failing to exercise the degree of care a “reasonable person” would exercise.)

    Please let me know if you have any follow-up questions, Joseph. Good luck!
    _______________________________________

    Response #3

    Thanks for your letter. I am toying with the idea, but it would be quite a project and not without legal risk for the newspaper. I’m sure you know the Fellowship has expert attorneys. Basing a story solely on allegations of former members might not be possible.

    I would need a “hook” for a story, which could be one of a number of things:

    1. prosecution by the Yuba County DA, which appears unlikely. I’m not hearing that any of Burton’s targets are under the age of 18, or that he raped anyone by physical force. Brainwashing someone or keeping them financially dependent in order to have sex with them might be immoral or unethical – but not illegal.

    2. prosecution by the U.S. Attorney for:
    a. fraud by a tax-exempt church? Using money paid by members for his own purposes? If it comes from members, it might not be illegal.
    b. immigration law offenses (having women church members marry young European men to secure Green Cards?)

    3. A lawsuit, maybe a class action lawsuit filed by many former members?

    4. Financial difficulties caused by loss of members? Selling off of assets? (Something that could be documented.)

    My guess is that Burton, based on advice from his attorneys, is at the edge of legality but doesn’t cross the line. But you never know. After all, he’s been doing whatever it is he does for what, 37 years? And so far there’ve been only a couple of lawsuits that were settled for cash, right?

    As L. Ron Hubbard (founder of Scientology) once said, if you want to get rich in America, start your own church.

    If you want to come in and talk sometime, you can call me at…
    _______________________________________

    A final note: about my own letters, suffice to say they were consistent with what I have written here, and derived from mostly my own personal experience. (BTW, this is not fun for me all you FOF-ers lurking out there; it’s necessary.)

    With concern for all victims of the FOF cult, regardless of whether they know they are,

    Joseph G


  588. Wow Uno 596, you have quite a way of putting together words. I particularly liked
    “Island parrots swarm towards a gardener’s confusion”
    It is interesting to see how posting on the bolg affects folks.
    This illustrates a point about Burton. He had an willing audience and got more and more barmy as he got away with more and more nonsense. You of course are on the level and not in the least bit a freak.
    I came accross a quote from Unamuno the other day.

    “The divine, therefore, was not originally somethign objective, but was rather the subjectivity of consciiousness projected outwardly, the personalisation of the world. The concept of divinity arose out of the sense of divinity, and the sense of divinity is naught but the dim and nascent sense of personality turned upon the outer world”

    Makes you pause and wonder if your expanding consiousness is just a hyped up psychosis like old Bob’s. If you don’t think in these terms, it probably is.

    Anyway, lets get back from the profane to the sacred. This is the penultimate of Malcolms submissions.

    Many household accidents occur when people fall with objects in their mouths.
    Love Malcolm

    When Bob was more handsome and young
    He saw Ethan about a torn lung.
    When asked how it ripped
    He replied that he tripped,
    “and the boy I was with sure was hung”.


  589. The more I look at us the clearer it is that it is the whole of the Fellowship of Friends behavior that is psychopathic. Only looking at the way it reacted as a community to the suffering of so many people, the boys, the women, Dorothy, Karen’s, Linda’s, my own, who amongst us can say that s/he has not suffered and being completely neglected and told not to identify? Even Robert and Girard’s suffering is being neglected.

    In terms of legal action, I am wondering whether the issue could be taken against the State of California instead of taking it directly against the Fellowship (and fine if it is taken against the Fellowship where possible). It seems to me that if the Fellowship is a legal institution within the laws of California what needs to be addressed are the laws of California. This will indirectly target the Fellowship and equally help students to reflect on their situation but it will address it from a wider perspective, a social perspective. If the laws allow for anti-social behavior the laws have to be changed.

    At this point it seems relevant to try to look into what are really the terms on which cults function. It does not seem that we are ready to prosecute the Fellowship as individuals or a group but would we consider prosecuting the state of California as a group of ex-students who were damaged by the laws? We would not only be doing our selves a favor but any other cult in process if we happened to win or even loose.

    The fact that the laws allow people to act against people and protect them is questionable. I am not knowledgeable enough on these issues but some here might consider this possibility and we could explore it together.

    I do believe our responsibility and karma in relation to Robert and the Fellowship can be worked out in the same way it was worked in. We practically payed to participate and support it, we practically pay and participate in dismantling it.

    My husband is a very ill man and he doesn’t seem half as ill as Robert. I love him and do not wish him any harm. He could not be more harmed. He needs help. We are all somewhat psychopathic at this point but some to a very delicate extreme.

    When I began screaming on this blog I did not know what it was that I was screaming about intellectually, just the pain came out, but as we give terms to things, it becomes very clear what it is that we need to talk about.

    Thank you Old Fish in the Sea, Joseph and everyone else for your posts.


  590. 603 Joseph,

    Interesting post. I think one ‘hook’ would be this blog. The advent of this wild ride, undominated, in some instances uncivilized vehicle of truth is notable. It has facilitated a level of communication within this changing group of oddly connected people that is a new phenomenon and as such is a great story!

    The attempts to intimidate the blog into submission, to threaten, to make simply disgusting are ‘old age’ ways to control others, and they don’t work in this environment. Just a ‘human interest’ story about the connecting of people with a common interest thru a blog is fascinating. ‘Our blog’ has participants from all over the globe, of many languages, backgrounds, levels of education, financial situations and so on, but we connect.

    The blog names, writings are very creative and distinct, and even tho we don’t care for each other’s style of expression sometimes no one is ‘photographed’ into silence.

    So the fof is not the story/hook, the blog is. This blog is pubic, no need to repeat anything too controversial, just say there ARE major controversies, and anyone can check in for themselves. So, instead of directly trying to ‘correct’ the fof with legal action, the act of shining a bright public light into very dark places is perhaps much more powerful.


  591. on September 16, 2007 at 6:51 pm Way.of.the.Slow.Man

    Flashlight is mightier than the sword
    following 606 KA

    Barring any egregious legal violations such as the greencard subterfuge, which apparently the INS is on like flies on shit, I think the best way to fight against the fof is to not fight it directly.

    If someone knows of actionable legal violations, by all means push the legal system to pursue it. If you have a legally actionable personal violation think seriously and get a *really* good lawyer before going directly against the fof and their junkyard dogs in court. Pushing against the fof directly may be a recipe for lengthy personal misery rather than salvation. Goddess bless you, though for trying.

    Most current fof students don’t want to hear they are covered with and rolling in fresh, steaming crap.

    To me this blog, personal contacts and the GF are lighter weight but much more powerful spot lights telling people the wonderful fof compost they think they are gardening with is still in the very raw stage and that they may want to stand back, wash off and try a different approach to growing their soul


  592. KA #606

    Yes, I thought so too. These people are aware of the blog, and I attached a sampling of posts in my letters. My feeling now is that it’s probably a question of timing. I completely agree that what has been happening here on the blog is intrinsically powerful. So maybe it’s just a matter of time before this brings about bigger changes, even if the form of these changes has not been made clear yet. The question at hand (at least for me) has to do with what is right action for anyone in a position to help move things along faster. Being in a position to do something relates to how much one personally knows, and whether one has the ability to take this knowledge to the powers that be (i.e. press, law enforcement, INS, etc.). Collectively we know quite a bit, and probably could do more if we really wanted to, and if the timing is right.


  593. Hello ‘Daily Card’ ~

    Yes, your wonderment is a legitimate concern, I hope we both can keep those mirrors held up to one another and not be afraid (when the time is right) to run towards one another and shatter our reflections, so to meet on one looking-level, not two opinionated ones.

    Your quoting of Miguel De Unamuno seemed a bit ‘sly’; at first I thought you had spelled my blog-name wrong, then realized that the initial assumption that you might be quoting me, something I wrote, was ‘off’…

    I read the quote; wow, if I ever make it to such a level of ‘bathwater ooze’ you’ll be the first I call to set my aging, old and warm-cozy body out in the arctic sub zero weather (like the Eskimos do for their suffering elders) so to get an attitude adjustment.

    BTW, that observation on 598 to you was for me too, I am finished with making fun of evil, there’s another level, I am sure of it; evil does not gamble with cynicism and satire, it thrives on it’s smoke screen, it anticipates it’s creation and slinks ever so deeper behind the laughter, sinking under one’s shinny lotus blossom, depositing little wormy things in its seeds; similar to the sperms wiggling down Robert Burton’s throat, showing up inside his no-womb-mucus’d-stomach, to be digested as proteins, not love, not selfless experiences.

    _____________________________________________

    Hello Joseph G ~ 603 ~

    You wrote ~

    “My guess is that Burton, based on advice from his attorneys, is at the edge of legality but doesn’t cross the line. But you never know. After all, he’s been doing whatever it is he does for what, 37 years? And so far there has been only a couple of lawsuits that were settled for cash, right?”
    __________________________________________

    Yes, it’s certainly in the “guess” category my friend, yet, it’s not the entire truth of the matter. For instance, based on the stories published on this blog (and available for anyone in the world to read at any time of the day or night)… Robert Burton has changed his ‘method of madness’ in dealing with the naiveté belonging to the psyches his erection preys upon;

    as of about a month ago, all ‘new boys on the block’ are ‘prepared’, i.e., told what is going to occur before they go into the ‘war room’, so as to not be able to say “I did not know” or “I was coerced into something I could not have known was going to occur.”

    Kinda gives a whole new flavor to “Prospective Newer Student Meeting” doesn’t it?
    __________________________________

    Love to you all.


  594. I wonder if it is wise to attack any community. Communities need enemies to unite and to feel real. Even Adolf Hitler said in ‘Mein Kampf’ “if you don’t have an enemy you got to create one.”

    The Fellowship of Friends is just an dream of the people in it, an illusion. Once you are out and dream other dreams it looks ridiculous.

    Something to think about: Socrates said that people that are ugly inside seek (desperately and by all means) beauty around them to compensate.


  595. Surely the sending home of all of the FOF’s foreign religious workers is material for a local newpaper article?


  596. Thank you Joseph #603 for the work and emotional commitment that went into your inquiries. I know that what you have gone through in your efforts here is not fun…. but it is appreciated more than these words convey.

    #608
    Timing, as they say “is of the essence” but there is also organization to consider. Organizing around an aim or a principle focuses action. This website / blog represents different things to different folks, (thank you KA for # 606)… organizing around a single theme or aim may be difficult (not impossible), especially if you’re talking about something like legal action… not to discourage any action beyond the blog… and I would echo the words of Slow Man in #607… “If someone knows of actionable legal violations, by all means push the legal system to pursue it. If you have a legally actionable personal violation think seriously and get a *really* good lawyer before going directly against the fof and their junkyard dogs in court. (Thanks slow man for #607).

    There are many possible approaches to change… for example, I suggested in a previous post, producing a video documentary, a collective biography based upon personal reflections of the fof experience. If a video disc were produced, putting a sincere “human face” on some of our stories, and it could somehow be circulated amongst current members, it would have an enormous impact… in my opinion. As an educator, part of my “training” includes the idea that information presented in many forms, increases “absorbing” of the information.

    when it comes to change,
    sometimes life’s a beach.
    http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=CHmAUODVaLY


  597. Three Stories That Should Be Told

    Here are three more instances of abuse by the Fellowship that should be told because they are further examples of how the Fellowship mistreats people and acts as though they are above the law.

    1. Many people know of this event but for those who don’t I will outline it again here. There was an afternoon tea with Robert held at the home of a member. One of the people attending was an older man with a degenerative eye disease. He had been a very loyal and supportive member of the Fellowship for thirty years. He has the habit of frequently closing his eyes for short periods due to the discomfort he experiences with his eye condition. He has been doing this for years.

    He was seated out of view of Robert but was listening to his commentaries that were, as always, prompted by Asaf who could see the student in question. After the meeting Asaf went to Robert and said that XX was closing his eyes during the event and that this indicated that he was not showing respect for Robert or his teaching. Linda Tulisso was called and instructed to tell the student that he was being given a two month leave of absence and that he must be out of Oregon House in 48 hours. The student explained why he had been closing his eyes and reminded Linda that he did not have a car, did not drive and had no where to go on such short notice. Her callous remark was, “You’ll figure something out.”

    This incident was the “last straw” for several people I know. This kind of cruelty and insensitivity is almost beyond comprehension. But as we all know, members of the Fellowship and especially the officers, directors and other enablers close to Robert have no problem justifying inhuman behavior and, tragically, they are even unable to see how inhuman it is.

    I suppose the Fellowship has the right to suspend the membership of anyone they chose and refuse them entry to the Fellowship property but to claim the right to force someone from their home and out of the community at large is a gross violation of civil rights. And there were other violations of this person’s civil rights as conditions to restore membership.

    2. This story concerns another very loyal member of more than thirty years membership. The person lives in Oregon House near other members of the Fellowship. They live in a small trailer which does not have room for all of their belongings. Many of these things were consequently stored outside. The neighbors complained to the Fellowship and the student was given a deadline by the Fellowship officials to move her belongings. She was unable to meet the deadline. The Fellowship arrived with a dump truck, picked up her belongings and threw them away. How can something like this be legal?

    3. There was a history of the Fellowship intercepting mail as a means of damage control in the past and apparently it is still occurring. Just lately a letter to a recently departed member was opened and read by K.J. who then sent it over to Abraham Goldman’s office. This person received a call from Abe’s office saying that they had a letter intended for her that had been opened by mistake. They made an exaggerated effort at claiming that it was a mistake and then issued an official letter of explanation in an attempt to cover up this violation of personal property.


  598. I am just now realizing how much this “bloggy thing” is really affecting me. Allow me to project my personal experience for a moment, as I am convinced I am not alone in this process. As some of you have mentioned, what we have here is very interesting, very new. When trying to explain what I’m going through to my life partner, I say it’s like intensive group therapy, although I’ve never done intensive group therapy, so I really wouldn’t know. Maybe we could call it blog-therapy.

    Whatever its name, it does affect my moods, my thoughts, my daily schedule. It finally occurred that I’m slowly opening up to a new realm of interactions and introspections and photographs, a whole world of second line opportunities and very human inner catastrophies. And this changes and challenges my thought process in a way that could have never happened in solitude.

    For the past twelve years, most of my work has been solo. I’ve gone around, seen people, done stuff, but even with my closest friends I haven’t been able to share most of my deepest existential ecstasies and dilemmas. Solitude can be a way of life in the midst of humanity. Mind you, I love humanity very much, it’s just that sometimes I feel like I’m still desperately looking for “my tribe”, the people that can give me a great piece of advice when I need it, people that have been through some heavy psychological stuff and have somehow come down to something real, people who feel ill at ease with both naive idealism and worldly cynicism. Wounded but alive.

    So here we meet again. The womb this time is a web: no smiling faces, no pretty dresses, no classical background. Every image fading, what remains of our friendship? Buddhists and atheists, fourth way die-harders and wannabe poets, beauties and ogres, how are we affecting each other? Every day it’s a surprise, often something completely unexpected. Do I know so little of myself? Is this the effect I have on people when I really try to communicate? I mean, they actually dig me? And why do they get so pissed sometimes? Whow, I didn’t know that, now that’s amazing! And on and on…

    A very amazing feature is that it’s being recorded, so we can look at old snapshots of our collective states and thoughts, and maybe in two years time or less we will be shocked to look at the person we once were. It’s my dream come true! How many times, during arguments with my man, I had wished for a tape recorder, something to help my memory build a clearer picture of how we got stuck into that same old conversation again, the same old BS. How did we ever end up there again? And my life has changed for sure everytime I have been able to see the mechanism clearly, the glitch, waves of fear and rejection flooding the body, the stomach tightening, the locked jaw, the old wound reopening. Learning from the emotions, gaining from the pain, feeding from joy.

    Now I can hit replay any time I want, and get instant reaction. Do I want love? read this! Do I want laughs? read this! Do I want pain? read this! It all evokes an aliveness of feeling and thought that’s very refreshing and at times emotionally addictive. We push each other buttons in a desperate effort to cut through the mask, to get to the core of each other. Stripping to the bare bones, testing our ability to feel, to integrate. It’s a process, and it is not and should not become a form. Its beauty for me lies in its unpredictable, organic unraveling, in the fact that I go to bed with the idea for a post in my mind and the morning after it is already obsolete. This medium moves with the exciting rhythm of the present.

    Things are going quite fast, I feel. Sometimes we say some pretty silly things, we get lost, we freak out. Other times I amazed at the beauty of things people write. We are influencing each other, for better or for worse, and for the majority of us there is no going back to arrested development. It’s time to move on (or keep moving on), challenge our minds, open up some more, engage in understanding, go for broke, collapse and recover. It’s free, and it’s healthy.

    When I read the stuff I wrote a week ago I am puzzled to see that such interesting thoughts had never crossed my mind before, never so clearly, never so completely. I was blind. I did not realize the extent of the damage, the width of my foolishness, the depth of my mechanical goodness. I could have never seen these things without you, you are showing me my past and carrying me into the future. Gratitude for you, for myself to have made it here, for us all to be ready for something new.

    We have been working indeed, at times just to stay alive, and here we are, outies and innies, bags of bones with beautiful and horrifying stories to tell. But we are calling for flesh, and flesh we are given, and soon we’ll be swimming in the limitless sea. With some bread and some blood, and a crown of desire, and a net full of fish.
    Love to you all

    Laura


  599. on September 16, 2007 at 10:44 pm wake up little suzy wake up

    KA says: ‘The blog is pubic?’ A mis-spell or was this some sort of synchronistic understanding that we are experiencing the feminine reactive, creative, healing, transportive side of what is happening to the Fellowship after years of its patriarchal limitations?


  600. Robert holds the power of the salvation of your immortal soul

    Love Malcolm

    “Unless upon your soul you wish to bring disaster,
    Stick your dick up the ass of your Master!”,
    Bob said with a moan,
    As he got slipped a big bone,
    “Now just wag your tail a bit faster!”


  601. #610

    hahahahaha!!!! oops, but……

    (the limitations of spell checker. need a Freudian slip checker)


  602. Dear Joseph and others,

    I do not perse think that we can do more…although that might be shown, to us in the moment, in the future, if any thing needs to be done, we will know.

    The down hill part of the fellowship of friends is happening and it is shocking. Many students are selling their belongings. The LCS will loose some children. There are only 45 this year anyway. Landscaping will have 8 people on salary left to maintain the gardens. Many people have app. for rents and 40 houses are for sale in Oregon House since January. Many people, like M G who is going to loose 1000 dollars on rent per month…how will he be able to pay his mortgage? Many will be in the same situation.

    The last shock of 70 people needing to go back in a few weeks will have more consequences. Many things are happening and we can not yet see the whole picture, teh consquences.

    Of course some student will still be buffering and will tell themselves:” There are student who are in the fellowship who are trying to make the fellowship look bad.”
    Other say: “There are many truths”. Also a good “mental” excuse.

    Many students are questioning and leaving. Many are upset…..What are we really doing as trying to live this life and do the best we can from our inner being?

    All the changes that are happening almost seem planetary. So many people are faced with deep parts of themselves and society…..

    The fellowship is not the only changing group, facing many challenges.

    Maybe Robert might stay in Europe?
    Who knows?

    Time will tell us.

    Thanks for your letters

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NMa4cAlnwjw&mode=related&search=
    Tony Parson on: “There are no teachers.”


  603. Dear Another Name,

    Thanks for the update. I have many friends in the OH area, in, out, and on the way out. You are probably one of them. For sure there will be “collateral damage” in various forms to people with far less means than M G, but no merely financial damage could ever be as devastating as the damage to essence that his been done by Robert Burton (or in his name) over several decades.

    Regardless, what you describe makes it sound like an aim that many of us probably hold in common is coming to fruition before our eyes as a direct result of the blog: to substantially constrain Robert Burton’s ability to exercise unchecked mind control and exploit people for his own sexual and financial gratification. Or is it? And will the change be final, or could he make a comeback? You probably know the reality much better than I do.

    Of course there is also the question of what happens to approximately $22 million worth of FOF assets…but hey, that’s just A Influence right?

    Warm regards,

    Joseph G


  604. Hello All,

    For those of you out there who are spiritually trying to understand the truth or illusion of your experiences within the Fellowship of Friends, I found a good website last week from the Council on Spiritual Practices. I include a link to it relating to spiritual communities, though there are many other links within the site well worth persuing. I find the site to be very clean and unaffiliated. http://www.csp.org/communities/communities.html

    I found it while I was looking for an online version of William James’ ‘Varieties of Religious Experience’ – which it has. If any of you are not familiar with the book, it was written at the begining of the 20th century, and is a greatly respected study of Conscious Experience from a Western “scientific” or “psychological” perspective. Ken Wilber’s ‘No Boundry’, is also a good, more contemporary compliment to it, which seems destined to become a classic for his understanding of scale and relativity regarding “B Influences”.

    I have copied here below from the CSP communities webpage (scroll down to see it on the CSP website) what 12 different religions have to say about spiritual ethics(within a community):

    BAHA’I
    “Blessed are those who prefer others
    before themselves.”
    — Baha’u’llah, Tablets of Baha’u’llah, 71

    BUDDHISM
    “Hurt not others in ways that you
    yourself would find hurtful.”
    — Udana-Varga, 5:18

    CHRISTIANITY
    “Always treat others as you would like
    them to treat you.”
    — Jesus, Matthew 7:12

    CONFUCIANISM
    “Do not unto others what you would
    not have them do unto you.”
    — Analects 15:23

    HINDUISM
    “This is the sum of all duty: do not do
    to others what would cause pain if
    done to you.”
    — Mahabharata 5:1517

    ISLAM
    “No one of you is a believer until
    you desire for another that which
    you desire for yourself”
    — Sunnah

    JAINISM
    “In happiness and suffering, in joy
    and grief, regard all creatures as
    you would regard your own self.”
    — Lord Mahavir 24th Tirthankara

    JUDAISM
    “What is hateful to you, do not do
    to your neighbor, That is the entire
    Torah; all the rest is commentary.”
    — Talmud, Shabbat 31a

    NATIVE AMERICAN
    “Respect for all life is the foundation”
    — The Great Law of Peace

    SIKHISM
    “Be not estranged from another for
    God dwells in every heart.”
    — Sri Guru Granth Sahib

    ZOROASTRIANISM
    “Human nature is good only when it
    does not do unto another whatever
    is no good for its own self.”
    — Dadistan-i-Dinik, 94:5

    WICCAN
    “Everything you do, whether positive
    or negative, is returned to you
    threefold.”
    — The Threefold Law

    Charles T said in #480
    “Conscience to me is an aspect of awareness of connectedness with others, from which right action flows without thought or effort.”

    Yup.

    Getting our head and heart straight is best way I can think of to battle this RB/FOF misunderstanding.

    Love,
    Bass


  605. 615 Bass

    Thanks.

    A short guide to comparative religions

    Taoism
    Shit happens.

    Confucianism
    Confucius says: “Shit happens”.

    Calvinism
    Shit happens because you don’t work hard enough.

    Buddhism
    If shit happens, it really isn’t shit.

    Seventh Day Adventism
    Õz¤ trayãßñÞ Smith Ÿkhul ƒ¥šoñcøß (transl.: No shit on Saturdays).

    Zen
    What is the sound of silent shit happening quietly?

    Hedonism
    There’s nothing like a good shit happening.

    Hinduism
    This shit happened before, it is the same and different and absolutely perfect.

    Mormon
    This shit, son of shit and shit, will give birth to shit, shit and shit.

    Islam
    If shit happens, it is the holy will of Allah the Unique, the Almighty, the Merciful – al Abdullillah !

    Moonies
    Only happy shit really happens.

    Stoicism
    This shit is not bad for me.

    Protestantism
    Let the shit happen to someone else.

    Catholicism
    Shit happens because you are SINNERS.

    Hare Krishna
    Shit happens rama rama. Shit happens rama rama. Shit happens rama rama.

    Judaism
    Why does this shit always happen to US and ONLY to US?

    Zoroastrianism
    Shit happens half the time.

    Christian Science
    My shit is in your mind and your money is in my bank account.

    Atheism
    No shit, no trouble.

    Existentialism
    What is shit anyway? And who am I to ask?

    Rastafarianism
    Let’s smoke this shit.


  606. Joseph G (around) 608

    I completely agree that what has been happening here on the blog is intrinsically powerful.

    ****************


  607. 616 Graduates

    Where’s I put my ecstasy?


  608. Bruce 617
    616 Graduates

    Where’d I put my ecstasy?

    *************


  609. Dear Joseph.

    What will happen with the assets? Good question, I must have buffered this.

    Months ago already there was a “gossip” in the real estate world in New York that the land was for sale….

    I think that E.H and A.G have a lean on the land to or at least partial….

    As I said I can not imagine and I have no clue.

    Time gives us a lot of answers….

    Any suggestions, if there is anything we can do?

    Enjoy the coming of Autumn.