Welcome to the 31st part of the Fellowship of Friends Discussion.For previous parts of the discussion please visit AnimamRecro or the Main page of this blog.For more organized reading check out The Fellowship of Friends WikiSpace.
For sites in Russian and Italian, click http://fofway.narod.ru/ and http://laliberastrada.blogspot.com/ respectively.
For more information check Rick Ross and Steven Hassan.
This is where you can find the website of the Fellowship of Friends.
If you decide to interact as well as digest, feel free to start here.
And as always (and above else), enjoy and have fun.
the Fellowship of Friends Discussion 
Here fishy fishy…
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8mVWWmIXKxk
CVB said at 30/485,
on March 16, 2008 at 4:18 pm:
‘More salary lay-offs. Nick S. and Benjamin Y. to name two. It is said to be about 60 this time. More long time supporters leaving. Fellowship is unable to pay the insurance on at least some of it’s vehicles. They can no longer be driven off the property.’
Yes, salary headcount reductions are inevitable. The Fellowship of Friends does that in a concerted fashion at least twice a year; usually spring and fall are the major episodes. Sometimes it can be rather draconian as to severity.
[see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draco_(lawgiver)#Draconian ]
Link is to specific place for definition but whole page is worth reading.
According to what Robert Burton had said in the past, there would not be more than 10% of the membership on salary as an ongoing target. So, as the membership numbers decline, it is necessary to reduce the number of salaried positions. If there are/were roughly 180 people on salary, then this is a 33% reduction. Based on this system, if there are 10 followers of Robert Burton, there will be one person on salary, and that would be, you guessed it, Robert Burton.
Certainly, many will return to salary when it is determined that what they were doing was essential. Others will return to salary because their individual circumstances will be reviewed on a case by case basis. Still others will go begging and/or exercise how ‘well connected’ they are to the powers-that-be. By the time the next salary headcount reduction is needed, the numbers will have climbed back to near the former numbers. This is a lesson in how to keep the ‘lower self’ in its place.
Now, I do not want to sound callous in these descriptions. These are just the facts. It is unfortunate that the most unfortunate are often the ones that will be subject to this process. It is also a time where almost everyone will have to justify their existence to those who have the authority to grant them their value. It actually is a very A Influence sort of arrangement. Some job security for those who have devoted a lifetime at a labor of love. Service the head honcho and your life could be different.
During these liquidity crunches, you can be sure that the Academy/Galleria (or whatever it may be called now), the building where Robert Burton has his residence, will still remain lavishly furnished. There will be plenty of cut flower large arrangements and plenty of flowering plants to decorate the interior. The gardens will keep burgeoning forth. The grounds and the multi-thousands of dollars palm trees and the grounds will be kept. The bonsai collection likely will not be sacrificed. Sumptuous meals will continue to be served, often with much of the food discarded. The regular dinners with ‘the boys’ will not come to an end (no pun intended). Travel to local and worldwide locations for Robert and the entourage will be adequately funded. Robert and the entourage will remain luxuriously clothed. Robert’s carpool will be maintained and insured. Mercedes may get sold, if it is not already a rental. Accommodations will be supplied. Medical insurance will likely be maintained for the select few; all others will have to plead poverty to the Yuba County welfare services for public assistance. Many parties on the dole because of their favor with Robert Burton will continue. Everyone will have to suffer to some degree, though. Even Robert will find some demonstrative way to show he will suffer, too. He might give up desserts. As long as semen flows, penis grows and ‘guess who’ blows; it will be business as usual.
Unoanimo,
I do appreciate the fact that oftentimes you leave me ‘speechless’.
Here are some words on non-duality, from a person who speaks honestly and is NOT TRYING TO SELL YOU SOMETHING.
THE DREAM OF SEPARATION
All there is is No-thing Being Everything and what appears as part of that everything is the belief and experience of being a separate self — an apparent individual with its own free will, choice and ability to act. This happening is uniquely human and is called self-consciousness. To most people it is the reality.
That apparent feeling of being separate is at the root of the suffering, inadequacy and sense of loss that drives people to search for escape or resolution. It is Being dreaming that it is apart from itself, looking all over the place for that which is already Everything. It is the hypnotic dream of separation which, for the dreamer, is very real.
The dilemma for the dream seeker is that the feeling of separation drives the seeking for resolution, which further fuels the sense of separation.
The development of an intelligent understanding ‘mind’ apparently brings with it the ability to make choices and take actions in an attempt to negotiate with ‘the world’ lived in. These negotiations are not always successful and the individual seems to experience its own pain and pleasure. It also develops a great respect for the guidance and control apparently emanating from the understanding ‘mind’. However, as long as there is a sense of separation, there is a sense of disquiet or loss and there is a seeking to dispel that sense. It seems logical that the much respected understanding ‘mind’ must be capable of investigating the cause of this disquiet and discovering ways of dispelling it.
The separate entity can only try to imagine or project an idea of what it must be like not to be separate. What is sought is the possibility of a future goal or state that can be realised and therefore, logically, must be approachable. Consequently, the function of seeking and the teaching of becoming locks the seeker into a state of continuously approaching something that it cannot comprehend. All of this is the expression of Being, arising as the good, old, dependable and reliable understanding ‘mind’ functioning as it can only function . . . in continual movement and anticipation. It is this activity of becoming which very effectively keeps the seeker in the hypnotic dream of reaching out for something it cannot grasp. Of course, Liberation can apparently happen despite all of this effort.
The only other hope for the dream seeker is to believe that another benevolent energy (say God, Consciousness or a so-called enlightened teacher) would be motivated to guide and influence the seeker along a path which would eventually lead them to fulfilment. All of these ideas of becoming, purpose and destiny arise in the dream.
But the paradox is that although Being appears as the dream seeker, Being is not a state that can be imagined, conceived of, attained or even realised by the seeking of it. Being requires absolutely nothing … it is the Nothing and Everything that is already immaculate fulfilment and wholeness. Nothing needs to be changed or attained, lost or found, for Being to simply Be. The appearance of separation is simply the expression of Being. The very idea of something needing to approach that which it already is, is wonderfully futile. Being is a comedian with an audience which never laughs.
The dream seeker feels a sense of loss and unworthiness, and so is very attracted to dream teachings which involve purification, hard committed effort, surrender, devotion and the development of renunciation and detachment. There is a kind of logical inevitability and worthiness about these ideas which resonates with the sense of lack. The almost endless path of striving happily ensures the continuation of the individual experience. These ideas seem to arise out of a very substantial and reliable history of traditional wisdom which surely must be respected, even though it is only available as words on bits of paper.
Two traditional ways which seek resolution, or escape, from the sense of separation are meditation and self-enquiry.
In meditation it seems possible, through apparent choice and guidance, to reach certain states of stillness or bliss which seem better than feeling separate. The belief is that continuous effort with meditation will solidify the state and eventually make it permanent. But these states are only refined personal experiences happening within the dream-story. So like all other time-based activities they come and go away.
Self-enquiry is a similar process in that the goal is for the individual to choose to take action or make the effort to reach a place called awareness which, its teachers promise, will bring personal peace of mind, happiness and the end of all suffering (?).
There is a great emphasis on the need for properly carried out investigation of thought processes etc, and the necessity for vigilance from “being distracted by self-centred thoughts”.
All of this activity is based on the principle of the enquirer “getting oneness” and maintaining personal possession of it.
The effect of the state of awareness is apparent movement into a place of detachment which at first feels very freeing, powerful and safe . . . rather like being in a glass box from which life can be watched without the watcher being affected. It is still a subtly dual personal experience within the dream-story of separation and so it is transitory.
Awareness of life happening is not ‘Being life’.
Predictably the state of awareness (Buddhist mindfulness) is easily forgotten or mislaid, or it can be overwhelmed by dream thinking or any powerful emotional situation, for instance. The glass box shatters and the place you seemed to be in seems lost again. The dream seeker either starts self-enquiring again, for another boost, or it is realised that awareness is just another refuge from within the dream of separation. All of this is simply the expression of Being.
Another way for the dream seeker to avoid simply Being is to try to understand or develop clarity about its own nature. It is very easy to get stuck in ‘Advaita’ or ‘non-dual’ concepts. The singular and unrelenting reiteration of such ideas as “all there is is Being”, “everything is the expression of Being” or “there is no one” are an arid and simplistic form of communication. It doesn’t address or illuminate the dream seeker’s apparent dilemma and it obviously ignores the primary energetic essence of the implicit aliveness of simply Being.
To continuously say that being awake or being asleep is not relevant because “Being is all there is” is like telling a blind person that it’s OK to be blind because “seeing is all there is”. This is pure idealism. Of course, there is no such thing as being asleep or being awake, but this is not seen until there is no one looking.
The Open Secret communication is not dependent on clear concepts, however much they may expose confused concepts. Speaking happens and words can only point to another possibility which is beyond verbal expression. It is the eternally new message which is hidden within the scriptures and either overlooked or rejected in the ‘mind’.
The idea of prescriptive teaching, guidance or the offer of any kind of help simply does not arise. This is a message without hope or comfort of any kind for the individual, but invariably the dream seeker will still believe that something is on offer … this is the function of seeking. It is also possible that all that will be left is nothing, and then another possibility could arise. However, there is no agenda or motive because nothing is for sale.
It is possible that clarity could arise, but absolute understanding is not liberation. Nevertheless, all of this conceptual communication is secondary to the primary element that is most illuminating. That primary element is energetic, impersonal aliveness … the implicit, vibrant wonder of simply Being. It is an energetic shift, apparently out of contraction into boundlessness. This boundlessness cannot be owned and so cannot be given. Its simplicity utterly confounds the ‘mind’, but what arises is an impersonal recognition that there is no-one and nothing to be liberated. All ideas of separation, individual suffering, free will, choice, meaning and purpose, destiny, hierarchy and tradition, are simply seen by no-one as the dream-play of Being.
It seems that the seeking ‘mind’ is fascinated by struggle and complexity. The whole fabric of seeking is full of stories of great edifices, seemingly arising out of simple beginnings. Buddhism, Christianity and so many other dogmas, arise and grow and fight each other over having better gods. Catechisms of sin and worthiness, degrees of awareness and levels of enlightenment are investigated, dissected and struggled over.
The mind loves the idea of enlightenment being some kind of distant, virtually unobtainable, perfect place of permanent bliss, free from suffering and full of omniscience, omnipresence and lots of other important ‘omni’s’ stomping around, shouting the odds and saving the world. And of course, because all this glory and specialness has to be attained, it seems there has to be a long haul through the dark night of the soul, endless past karmas, original sin, right-thinking, right action and preparation for the bardos. “It is a tale told by a fool, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
Yet Natural Being is such an ordinary and gentle constant. When it is seen it is. When it is avoided it is. It requires no effort and demands no standards. Being timeless there is no path to tread, no debt to pay. When this is heard and confusion collapses, when the contraction of struggling to get something falls away and the vibrant energy of being aliveness becomes apparent, something else is seen, very naturally of course, because it is already all that is.
Tony Parsons
Please send letters in support of the petition to
Susan Zannos
2520 Madera Circle #106
Port Hueneme, CA 93041
If you have any questions about content or process, you can call me at (805) 984-7975, or my cell at (805) 824-5588. I may not have any answers but would like to talk to you.
My e-mail address is at yahoo.com and begins with “zannoss”
Please do support the petition effort by writing a letter that willl be forwarded to the lawyer who has been paid by quite a hefty donation. Can it be true that we haven’t the ability to hold our own aims?
In support of Zannos if you have anything that’s required please send it.
Otherwise, I went to the internet and found something of interest to me about Alejandro Jodorowsky:
He gives credit to his successful spiritual journey to a small group of very powerful women.
Didnt Robert Burton infer that Fellowship women were practically useless and had to wait numerous lifetimes before they could turn into men and be useful, or something to that effect?
The women of Jodorowsky’s life:
Leonora Carrington, surrealist painter.
Dona Magdalena, Spiritual massage
La Tigresa, Mexican actress
Reyna D`Assia, Daughter of George Gurdjieff
Maria Sabina, Priestess of ‘plant teachers’
Pachita, the Healer
and
Violeta Parra, Chilen singer
In case you missed it in the page shuffle – page 30 #511 links will be of interest to most who left FOF 3 or more years ago.
It might be helpful to list Burton’s salable assets. How many cars does he have? There’s the Lexus and all those people-carriers that house the entourage. The caravan seemed to consist of about 5 vehicles when he left Oregon House to go traveling.
6 seeing is disbelieving
Thanks. I just watched most of the first file.
Unfuckingbelievable.
I thought I was being taken in back “then”. This is beyond the pale. Being Naive is one thing, being an idiot or a dick is quite another.
Hi Susan:
First and foremost, Susan, I want to personally thank you again both as a concerned father and as a former follower, for taking the lead with Jack here.
You are awesome!
Those whom are “in the know” are the most responsible to the community at large to speak out, otherwise their silence implicates them in the crime.
Anyone is entitled to blow the whistle, we were all issued one at birth. (One way or another, you are gonna have to put your lips together and blow…)
Susan and Jack, you understand what having a conscience means:
If we don’t confront evil, it flourishes, and we are all diminished.
My question is this: (maybe you posted this already regarding the petition or maybe this is a question for the lawyer)…does the fact my experiences with RB in the FOF that took place 22 years ago compromise the legal weight of my testimony? (Others waiting in the wings may have this question, too.)
I am under the impression that there is a statue of limitations even regarding sexual abuse. So my stance is that even if I were to send you a letter, it wouldn’t have any legal weight. Robert could argue that memories are inherently clouded after so many years, which of course you and I both know is not the case, since in the FOF we were all focused on creating more memory 24/7…and getting a blow-job from the teacher, no matter how much wine or how many margaritas one has ingested, still creates intense (and for me disturbing) memory…but in court at the end of the day that may not be enough to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt and therefore incite them to disregard my testimony, correct?
I would think the petition would have more weight and legal bearing if current and recently liberated followers were mostly the contributors, yes?
Please understand that I wholeheartedly support your efforts. I am still carrying a vast amount of personal shame for prostituting my body for higher states and would rather remain anonymous. Apart from avoiding the pitfalls of having a magnetic center, I do feel I have a responsibility to speak out both as a parent and as community member in order to leave the world a better and safer place for my children. This is the best I can do right now.
The results of conscious efforts speak for themselves and shine. The results of evil are often buried from the light behind a facade. IMO, having a conscience means also having the moral courage to confront evil, and doing so means sometimes struggling to break through a facade to expose it.
Anyway, since you posted, I thought I’d voice my stance, and at least give you a thumbs up.
Ribbit!
Warmly,
Whalerider
Hello Whalerider ~
I too thought these thoughts, yet, sending Jack and Susan my testimony and signature does get rid of the general alleged(s) so far as hearsay goes and so far as a real testament or ‘informational-Stelae’ is concerned…
It takes it out of the conceptual realm where many in the Fellowship of Friends must go in order to explain their teacher’s (C-Influence’s) actions away from the eyes of Conscience (not C-Influence’s) and places it in the perceptual:
reading something or knowing that such a document exists with people’s whole Earth-being up in front and willing to walk the talk if there’s a day held between Conscience and Concepts, then the signature-percepts will be the ‘Weighing of the Heart’,
which does not really take place in court or behind a judge’s chamber door with lawyers on both sides trying to settle out of court, it takes place inside the reader’s heart (actually both his or her hearts), when they read the petition, which speaks of the history and reputation of ‘The Teacher’, giving an overall sense of what he’s spreading and creating in the souls of bodies perhaps ready to read and find (and be found by) such a document concerning the Fellowship of Friends.
To me, it’s not so much whether it will hold up in court as something to prosecute someone ‘today’; rather, its whether it will serve something within myself ‘now’ and believe me, sending it off does have an effect that not sending it simply cannot create… Some would say it’s good therapy, I see it as just good.
First and foremost though I did it for myself and my conscience, so far as a sort of eye to eye look at my own hypocritical shadow sides and all that I have written on the blog which was always heading in the petition’s direction anyways:
I mean, if you’re looking for the 1900 lb cobra that shielded Buddha from the elements, you ought not be too surprised if one day in Autumn you’re leaning up against a tree in a monsoon while staying perfectly dry.
______________________________
L.t.y.W.
I’m certainly not trying to change the subject as I know that there is good faith in much of what people are doing regarding the Petition.
However, I hope people are not missing the Eckhart Tolle series on Oprah (The New Earth). Even though most of what Eckhart is saying we all know from our early days in the Fellowship and why we joined, it is so refreshing to see that many people are being helped these days in the awakening process. I find this so inspiring! And it helps me to be reminded that I always have a choice of being in the present moment. It’s good stuff!!!
6 seeing is disbelieving
Thanx from an old timer.
Funny, the new bullship smells just like the old bullship.
Got to hand it to the guy (?) he’s got the act down pat.
You would think he would have tired of it after all these years.
Hey, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. It looks like he still has plenty of idiots paying him buckets of money for four wordless breaths, Gurdjieff would be green.
Thanks unoanimo. I hear what you are saying…better to be dry under a tree in a monsoon than out by yourself in a rice paddy…it does feel good to make a stand, too; it strengthens ones moral character, ever so much more than remaining silent.
When I read the language of Troy’s complaint, I get that same perceptual feeling of the crime that you are talking about. It makes my skin crawl more so than the petition, in part because I heard some of those same lies from the source.
I realize we all have a shadow side within us that sometimes thinks the unthinkable, or God forbid, sometimes does the unspeakable, that side we still need to find a way to forgive in ourselves to be healthy and whole.
We have to cultivate the being and understanding to turn the other cheek at times and set down that first stone; those are not always our first impulses. I think Robert attempts to seek refuge from his behavior there, in that higher dimension beyond the duality of good and evil, where all is forgiven. Sure, even the criminally insane are eventually forgiven, by the earth anyway, as their bodies are plowed under, becoming food for plants, worms, fish, and eventually ending up as food on our table. We are all indeed cut from the same cloth. And forgiveness is a work that we all must undertake for our selves and sometimes must be urged to do so; no one can do it for us.
Forgiveness does not, however, place anyone above the law. (I am not alluding that you think so.) Justice is equally important, especially within a community. Justice is part of the glue that holds a society together.
Does not the need for justice spring from the spirit in the same way that the need for forgiveness springs from the soul? Is it not the ghosts of injustice that come back to haunt us, more so than the ghosts of the unforgiven?
5 arthur, 9 whalerider, also ton, yesri, many, many others…
There seems to be some sort of disconnect involved here. Postings are appearing that laud the efforts of the supposed others who have more pertinent or more recent or more important information. Is this a part of the damage that Robert Burton and the Fellowship inflicted on us all? The conviction that we are of no importance? Arthur and Ton and Yesri: my god, I am crying now as I remember your accounts of being literally abandoned on the streets, devastated by your forced exits from the Fellowship–and the aftermath that stretched on for years and still affects your lives.
And so, in the petition, one of the “alleges” is about the Fellowship “leaving them in a state of poor physical and/or mental health, financial ruin and moral devastation.”
Another “allege” is about Burton as a sexual predator who used his role as a spiritual teacher to seduce idealistic young men, causing them confusion and anguish. There is no statute of limitations to these things. They took place for well over a quarter of a century and are still going on.
According to my understanding, letters in support of the petition do not require some impossibly high standard of legal proof. They are a way to say: I was there. I know that these things happened. I was a part of this. This applies also to the “alleges” dealing with financial chicanery (such as the stipends paid to workers through the German centers so their wages would not be wages on the Fellowship books). We don’t have to provide proof. We knew about it. We even thought it was pretty cute how clever we all were and how far above life and its silly laws for sleeping masses.
And suppose the unlikely case that your personal letter did not directly apply. So what. Write it anyway. There aren’t any important others whose experience is more significant than yours.
Susan Zannos
2520 Madera Circle #106
Port Hueneme, CA 93041
whalerider 9 & 13/31, and all:
With appropriate due respect to what others have written, or will write, here about the petition and the enlightenment of the criminal activities, I would like to add this: Although your personal circumstances may have passed beyond the statute of limitations, or not, as regards time, in a legal examination of the kind that may develop, conditions could very well exist where broader testimony is allowed and taken into consideration given that it has been an ongoing and continuous criminal enterprise. It would speak to the ‘long body’ through time of just how insidious the actions have been. It would also speak to the breadth of how many people have been affected and how. Also, besides the submitted material being used to prompt an investigation and, hopefully, a trial or trials (criminally and/or civilly), they could be used at other purpose, such as, but not necessarily limited to, during pretrial motions and/or post trial sentencing hearings. I am not a lawyer, so I cannot speak of definitive applications but suggest: just go for it. I have.
One quotation came to mind while pondering this subject:
Our doubts are traitors,
And make us lose the good
we oft might win
By fearing to attempt.
Wm. Shakespeare
Measure for Measure
Act I, scene iv
And while looking that one up, I came across:
Thyself and thy belongings
Are not thine own so proper as to waste
Thyself upon thy virtues, they on thee.
Heaven doth with us as we with torches do,
Not light them for themselves;
for if our virtues
Did not go forth of us, ’t were all alike
As if we had them not.
Spirits are not finely touch’d
But to fine issues, nor Nature never lends
The smallest scruple of her excellence
But, like a thrifty goddess, she determines
Herself the glory of a creditor,
Both thanks and use.
Measure for Measure
Act I, scene i
O, what may man within him hide,
Though angel on the outward side!
Measure for Measure
Act III, scene ii
Truth is truth
To the end of reckoning.
Measure for Measure
Act V, scene i
15 Wouldn’t You Like To Know
…and your letter is in the mail?
zannos 14
Thanks Susan, you make some excellent points.
On a different note, the shamanic thread just keeps unwinding in front of me, and I feel compelled to share.
Enjoy, my darling travelling companions!
“The goal of the shaman’s death and dismemberment experience is to “re-member” themselves, which like true soul retrieval, brings all of their dissociated parts back together into a more integrated synthesis.”
http://www.realitysandwich.com/we_are_all_shamans_training
Also, I’d like to bring to your attention one more petition for a cause I feel very strongly about, the plight of the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan people:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/tibet_end_the_violence/6.php
Hello Whalerider ~
I have to go rent a chainsaw, eat some yogurt and fruit and demolish a boat sitting in a canal, so, I do not have much time here right now, though it seems that your posting and question marks concerning the petition were answered by many:
not to forget that the Catholic Church is still being called and pressed upon to pay for atrocities far, far back into adult’s childhood and teenage lives:
so, it is true that there is no statute of limitations on the sort of phenomenon Robert Earl Burton is spinning out under the umbrellas of being a ‘Real Californian Church’ behind his ‘locked, key in the left pocket’ bedroom door.
I wish to respond more to your beautiful reply to me, thank you and will do so later tonight… There’s a one liner though I’d like to comment on and from the deepest place in my heart ~
You wrote ~
“Is it not the ghosts of injustice that come back to haunt us, more so than the ghosts of the unforgiven?”
______________________________________
Whalerider, it’s been my physical and psychological experience that such “ghosts” are made up of both, i.e., “injustice” and “the un-forgiven”; that these un’s are inseparable and compound to form some of the most spiritually dangerous places and beings in my personal cosmos; they even have their own temples and ‘danger rooms’…
______________
Oh what serpents crawl within the serpent beneath our skin, scribbling, wiggling it along its pathway from the underside of our left foot holding the weight of the right leg crossed over it, all the way up into our right palm supporting our one ‘Thinker Chin’…
Yes, even the Serpent itself has something under its skin too and its all ours eventually…
_________________________
L.t.y.W. & a
“Hey, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. It looks like he still has plenty of idiots paying him buckets of money for four wordless breaths, Gurdjieff would be green.”
My guess is that at the present moment, what’s left of George Gurdjieff is green.
4 is newly moderated.
Deleted on request of the author. — ES
Susan Zannos (15),
You are right there was a disconnect on my part, thanks for the nudge.
I think because I tire easily when reading I must have skipped part of the petition’s “alleges” which apply to me.
Also, I am completely computer illiterate. This morning my computer lost its connectivity and one thing I had to learn was that I have a modem. Who would have thought? I can do e-mail and not much else.
I went to ‘seeing is disbelieving’ (7) and did what was suggested. But. I couldnt follow through with all the instructions, like open file, which file, downloads, etc. All foreign words. So, I decided whatever it was, I didnt need it.
In other words, you will received a hand printed letter with my signature.
As far as illegal financial maneuvers go, former center directors may have some facts. I have heard about these things but have no direct knowledge. For instance, I know from heresay that Robert had the Fellowship, through center funds, support the wife and children of a young man he had commandeered for his harem. I don’t know how long this went on but the check for this family’s support was one of the center’s monthly expenses and it came from teaching payments made by members.
Hi unoanimo:
I thank you for your post. I hope you sunk the boat and enjoyed the fruits of your labor, even in the dark of night.
Ah, those serpents under the serpent’s skin…the wiggle within us and extend all the way from the experience of our birth, our first rude awakening to the world from the warmth and safety of the womb-paradise that we all eventually outgrow. How can we forgive that? To me they are the mitochondria that empower me. Their true danger is in their seduction leading to our self-destruction…our weakness-not their song. Although they echo in the temple I have created for them and sound grandiose, there are other temples to visit also, with choruses of angels praising Allah, the merciful one. For buried deep within each of us is our very survival instinct, our protector, and Robert’s nemesis. It is dangerous, too. We feel justified in reflexively lashing out in our own self-defense; there is no debating. That makes us one of the most dangerous species to ever walk the earth. For you, those serpents extend to your thinker’s palm. For me, they become my fingers gripping the sword of truth.
Susan, I have changed my mind. Expect a letter from me. I understand that you are not here for praise. And your tears do not go unnoticed or unfelt; they leave salt in my wounds.
Thanks to all who nudged me.
Hello Whalerider ~
(Rarely do you get to speak.)
You wrote ~
“For you, those serpents extend to your thinker’s palm. For me, they become my fingers gripping the sword of truth.”
______________
I am guessing a bit here (not knowing how you really meant it when you wrote it)… Though when I read that line I had the deep sense that ~
Both the ‘thinker’s palm’ and the ‘fingers gripping’ can belong to the same serpents.
I believe it can go both ways, serpents can be digested or they can digest the digester: it’s a jungle in here and I am very glad to have you within the depths along the high cliffs shoreline.
Thank you for your honesty and trust.
____________
:.)
Correction ~
I meant to write ~
(Rarely do we get to speak.)
_____________________
Maybe that was a Freudian slip from the Cosmos (?)
Having being raped is so devastating that I do not wish anyone to know how badly I was raped.
You’ll think I deserved it.
You’ll act as if having once attracted it,
you can show me some of it.
You’ll separate from me as if you were better than I am.
So afraid that I survived.
I am the deer in the lion’s fangs,
How could I believe
there are no more lions around?
Sometimes I have been so alone
It is a pleasure to become the lion’s meal.
In a land without community
At least the lion eats.
We are all part and parcel
Feed the lion with each other’s being
Hide the hand that lent itself to kill
The I that gave itself to it
Don’t put my name on that list,
It was not me.
The past is sick
The future thin.
They cut my words
They sliced my brain
They burnt my soul
In silent wows.
They dressed me like a doll and
played with me like dogs
They turned me upside down
And blew me out the door.
They peeled my skin,
Don’t touch
They broke my bones,
Don’t hold
They skipped my being
I am not.
So long.
It’s rape,
NO,
It’s life
NO
It’s death.
But they don’t need to kill us now.
They suck the life away
With golden straw-like scalpels.
What’s the fuss Dear?
Says the woman in gloves,
The silk blouse,
The flower in place.
Can’t you see?
That there is nothing but beauty here?
Nothing but beauty, yes, or the semblance of it.
Build, build beauty, that we can hide this much horror.
How much horror do you need to carry inside
That you can’t let go of beauty in uniform?
Was it so simple to understand that in a world of appearances
So many could be bribed with beauty?
Beauty? Or the desperate anxiety to hide the greed with which you sought it?
The unending craving for something that could replace the lack of consciousness that your adepts so addictedly sought?
My poor teacher, having to carry the demand of thousands of non-existent people desperate for something divine, became a divine Versace doll.
Should we laugh? Cry? Or both?
My dear teacher,
Your certainly had a touch,
How did you come to forget
That flowers grow in the soil?
You can have a million hummingbirds
Peter and Leonardo at your door
But if you can’t stand on the floor
You fly away without a soul.
Dear, Dear Robert
Can we tie you with chains
So that you grow veins?
Hide you in cells
So that you grow legs?
No cloud,
No gown
But sound?
Dear, Dear Friends,
For how long will you keep digging
Robert’s graveyard in gold?
For how long will you jump in with him
And pay for the toll?
“No one knows the thirst with which another drinks”
Or the drink that deepens their thirst.
A longing so bound that there is no longing but long.
“Keep Walking” My love,
With a drink of Scotch you make it go on
For you yourself have become
A dead end road.
Wow, Elena, your poem was powerful! It speaks to the shame that kept me silent for so many years. By exposing a rape, often the victim has to endure those who want to avoid the ugly truth and blame them, absolving the perpetrator. It’s not a pretty side of human nature.
I can’t even fathom how much it must have sucked being a woman in the Fellowship under the yoke of so-called, ‘feminine dominance’, too. How dehumanizing, really. I guess it sucked for everybody.
I am glad you made it out alive and in your own skin.
unoanimo:
Upon further inspection, I discovered it’s not a fist supporting the thinker’s chin as I had hoped…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thinker
It reminds me of the saying, if you point a finger, three fingers point back at you. That’s why one must be honest. In the introspective thinker’s case, it appears all his fingers are pointed back at himself, and thus he is frozen stone, resolved to think about it, weighing the heavy truth and gravity of the matter.
(Others might view the sculpture and think: either shit or get off the pot.)
“Being is a comedian with an audience which never laughs.” –Tony Parsons
I think I’ll have this tatooed onto my forehead…backwards.
WHY ROBERT BURTON IS A FAKE (#4),
“All there is is No-Thing Being Everything”. For this I dont have a clue.
But, Robert Earl Burton did pass himself off as a Fourth Way teacher. He was fake all along and from the beginning.
To my understanding the Fourth Way has a specific lingo so that everybody can be on the same page.
Robert Earl Burton to my knowledge never spoke about or attempted to explain “All there is is No-Thing Being Everything”.
No-Thing to me reminds me of Nothing. Maurice Nicoll’s Psychological Commentaries does address “Nothingness” whether it is in the same context as, “All there is is No-Thing Being Everything” I dont know and I’m too tired to even try to connect the dots.
Deleted on request of the author. — ES
Wow! guys and galls.
So many beautiful writings, its a real banquet.
Thanks for sharing them.
Whalerider,
Once I went to the garden where they keep many of Rodins sculptures.
It was quite a shock to see the statue that most know as the thinker or sometimes the poet actually in situ.
It sits above two amazingly sculpted doors called the gates of hell.
They are made up of all sorts of forms arising and melting, I think they inspired some of the pieces in a number of horror films.
Anyway suddenly it made an awful lot more sense, he is contemplating all of these writhing forms beneath him from above.
Again thanks to everyone.
jx
Good morning dancing monkeys!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bzmZXYKmTt0&feature=related
The recent events in OH, meaning the salary lay-offs,
has created more negativity towards ex students.
The blame-game has started….. as if it is our fault!
Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.
Bertrand Russell
“Sometimes I feel uninspired” – Steve Winwood
It would be a true tragedy if Princess Bobby were to be deprived in any way or measure of excessive money, drugs & sex.
Lord know this is what makes & keeps him a “conscious bean.”
Q: What are the three aspects of the Hindu Diety?
A: Creator, Sustainer & Destroyer of the Universe.
37 God Laughing
“The recent events in OH, meaning the salary lay-offs,
has created more negativity towards ex students.”
Really? Well, fuck em.
37 God Laughing
If they can’t see where the real problem lies, double fuck em.
Now they can replace ALL the salaried members:
God Laughing:
“The recent events in OH, meaning the salary lay-offs,
has created more negativity towards ex students.
The blame-game has started….. as if it is our fault!”
Join the Magnetic Reprieve:
Very curious: OEN (www.opednews.com) carries a contribution describing Hillary Clinton’s association with a “Fellowship”, “Friends”:
http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/link.php?id=54935
Story also in Mother Jones 2007
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html
I read that Robert Burton Arkansas Bob and Bill Clinton had in common Arkansas the state.
Is there any connection here???? Other than coinkydinky?
Bruce 41, the soul of wit… you’re priceless. That is one amazing robot, it would be good walking the slopes but can it handle a weed whip?
Dear Susan,
I want to say that your efforts regarding the petition / letter-writing initiative are greatly appreciated and I hope it all leads to the desired end. I also appreciate the sympathetic tone of # 15 in trying to motivate letter writers. Others have used challenges to “manhood” with statements about “sprouting balls” and etc. I realize this is a sincere and well intentioned attempt to “nudge” people by using an interesting blend of guilt and machismo, but I’m not sure how effective it is as a motivator. Call it what you like, but speaking for myself, reluctance with the letter doesn’t have anything to do with testosterone. It does have a lot to do with my ignorance, lack of knowledge and understanding of the legal system and how, or whether or not a letter written by me might be used against my self-interests. It may be that paranoia factors in but the root is the same — ignorance. I would perhaps euphemistically frame my reluctance with the words “cautious prudence,” I’ve lived long enough to learn that what you don’t know can hurt you. My reluctance to write a letter has to do with a basic skepticism and distrust which has become a part of my orientation with the passage of time.
There are probably many fine folks with good intentions who practice law and I recognize the necessity for “due process” in “civil society” as we know it, but I’ve always thought of and treated involvement in legal issues the same way I do hospitals and the medical establishment; it is something I “instinctively” avoid. I realize that there are times when these human-made institutions cannot be avoided; as is the case in a serious accident — one is scooped up by an ambulance and becomes part of that system and then aside from recovering from injury, one is forced to endure the treatment, bureaucracy, the costs involved, etc… the process of the “cure” can become more traumatic than the original injury. I’m sure in some cases death from the accident is not the worst that could happen, surviving it might be worse.
I can see that the Fellowship experience constitutes a type of “serious accident” or at least that’s the effect it has and with hindsight I can say maybe I should have joined Sam Sanders in his lawsuit when he approached me years ago but I didn’t, if I had I probably would not be having this “conversation.” It was I’m guessing about a year after I left the FOF, Sam asked me to testify / witness in his legal action against the Fellowship; it would have been about 1984. By that time I’d managed to scrape the remains of this tattered soul from the pavement, I had a roof overhead, was working a regular gig and enrolled in college. I declined Sam’s request, mostly out of “instinct” — I’d been badly burned and I didn’t want to have anything more to do with the Fellowship of Friends, I didn’t care to recount or relive a horrible episode especially not in a legal setting. I felt at the time that I was beginning to recover and move on with life, I felt that revisiting Fellowship experiences would have been a backward step.
Now, these many years later I can say this without a doubt; if putting my signature on a letter written by me were to lead to becoming embroiled in the courts, it would be adding injury to insult (not the other way around). There’s an old saying in my country; “foul me once shame on you. Foul me twice, shame on me.” Getting tangled up in court with FOF lawyers at this stage of my life would be proof that in fact I did not survive the Fellowship.
I suppose if there is a lawyer who reads and posts here, who could reassure me that a written and signed account of my encounter with the Fellowship cannot have negative legal consequences for me personally — I have a family and something resembling “a life” to consider now — then there wouldn’t be so much resistance on my part in putting pen to paper. I have no desire or intention of getting involved in a legal battle; my concern here is that when the funds start to dry up for the FOF they’ll resort to other means such as a countersuit of former students for libel or some similar tactic (?) If there is even the remote possibility of something like this happening then I want no part of it and I cannot contribute a letter. (On the other hand and for what it’s worth, my version of the truth is here in an account of my experiences on previous pages, albeit sans handwritten signature).
The Fellowship of Friends is literally rotten at the core and it is certain to collapse, but I agree that the end cannot come soon enough. I respect and support (at least in spirit) the efforts and aim behind the petition to bring about a quicker resolution to a problem that has gone on for too long. I haven’t been able to take a front-line position in actively pursuing a more rapid conclusion to the sad and sick situation that is The Fellowship of Friends and I apologize to my friends here for my deficiency as far as that goes. I’ve rationalized my continued posting here with the hope that it may lead to prying a few of the fence-sitters over and into the light, or somehow it may lend “moral support” to someone who’s recently left — that’s partly what’s kept me at it. Blogging is new for me, the novelty it offers, as a place to blow-off steam, the sense of kinship / camaraderie, the entertainment value are all factors which make it both fun, enriching, “therapeutic” — at least until now. I’ve wondered about where the blog is leading, the larger aim and it’s purpose; if the letter is what this is all about and I can’t contribute without reassurance from someone “in the know” regarding the legal implications, maybe this is where I jump off…
All the best to you all
ton
“I’ve wondered about where the blog is leading, the larger aim and it’s purpose; if the letter is what this is all about……………….. maybe this is where I jump off… ”
* * *
From what I have observed and felt in the short time I have been here, I would say that the petition is not what this blog is all about. The petition could possibly become, and perhaps already has become, a powerful tool, that might bring needed light and outside attention to the sickness within the fellowship of friends. The blog apparently gave birth to the petition, but it feels like this forum is much, much more than that one child.
I personally would really miss your voice if you “jumped off”.
(I can hear) God Laughing:
Thank you for your OH report. Keep ‘em coming, as bobby would say.
If possible, please send a message to the pissed off (or shall I say newly enlightened about their real status) student followers recently ‘released’ from bondage inviting them to jump in the boat here and blog about how they feel towards us, the ‘school’, their master, or life in general.
Writing about how one feels is an appropriate and healthy way to process negativity.
Please let them know they are always welcome here; we are waiting for them. It’s free to post if you have a computer, donations are voluntary (for real), and as long as they are relatively civil, nobody will ask them to leave. They can even remain anonymous, if they choose.
There are many experienced bloggers here who have had to cope with being abruptly asked to leave salary and/or the ‘school’, and who could provide them with some priceless relativity as well as a few laughs.
Tell them we have shortened the blog pages for dial-uppers in an effort to accommodate more voices, including theirs out in the boonies.
Thanks a million!
PS. More cake please.
43 ton
Just participating on the blog gets those creepy crawly shadow memes clawing up out of their slimey dungeon holes. I think you are right on about not wanting to get sucked into the fof’s sphere any more than possible. There is darkness and ‘evil’ all around it. Although we have been innoculated that also means we have been infected.
I don’t know if I will write anything or not. I don’t think I have any ‘factual’ data that will erase any ‘allegedlys’- maybe working for less than minimum wage. Other than that I would be stuck on the witness stand testifying to what a gullible, moronic retard I was.
I was watching Barak Obama give a bla-bla-bla about something or other and on the podium was the catch phrase “experience for leadership” or some such. Just stick the words out there and let ’em soak into the brains (not to be a diss to Mr. Obama in particular). Freud’s nephew and old G. had it right. Advertising is the true psychology- propaganda. Keep repeating the bullshit and you are guaranteed to attract a quantity of flies.
Robert Burton is a fuckhead and it would be good to see him get his due. Him and about a gazillion other fuckheads on this planet. The current gullible moronic retards hold their fate in their own minds. It is their own responsibility to get themselves out of the lie they are living.
I am not responsible for what they do. I am responsible for everything that has happened to me and what I do.
Hey, did you get to look at the video of the meeting posted by ‘seeing is disbelieving’ un-HOLY SHIT! How long have these idiots been gathering together blathering about squares and fingers. Christamighty, Burton’s got ’em believing the present is buried under the ancient sands of Egypt or the cobblestones of old Europe. He’s still doing that phoney head tilt and faggy hand stuff and the fake humility walk out of the meeting. What a turd. These knuckleheads take turns standing up and reading some babble from some dusty dead guy and shit for brains turns it into some numerological mumbo jumbo and their heads swivel around like a gaggle of zombic lemmings to the ‘oh look we’re incorporating current technology ala 4th way’ big screen. That bitch LT is still there surprise, surprise!
I’ve got a new, much simpler teaching for them. It only involves counting one finger.
Having viewed most of the web posts of 511 3(0). Many thanks for that seeing is disbelieving. It reminded me of an article I read from Pears cyclopaedia, 79th edition 1970. In the section Medical Matters, the article went under the title of The Physiology of Faith, written by William Sargant. I’ll not type it all , not that it isn’t interesting but just not relevant to a point I wish to make and also I’m essentially a slow typer and also not create an overlong comment on this blog.
So, Excerpts from The Physiology of Faith
Sometimes, but unfortunately all too rarely, faith is based on scientific certainty……….
Normally, everything that we see , hear, and feel is received by the brain and it is then compared and correlated with all the other recorded experiences, past and present, which may have any bearing upon it. The brain then has to set about “computing the data” and deciding on the truth and importance of the new information received , based on its past experiences and accumulated records of knowledge. However, it seems that the brain can often be put into quite a different condition, so that it suddenly and quite uncritically starts to accept ideas, thoughts and happenings which may make nonsense and be against all the rest of the person’s ordered and computed knowledge. Somebody with excellent judgement in everyday business and social matters, may – generally after some overwhelming emotional experience or a debilitating physical illness – suddenly come to believe that all the secrets of the history of the world and its future are locked up in certain mathematical equations built into the construction of the pyramids of Egypt built thousands of years ago…………
Pavlovs Neurophysiological Findings
For information on the way sudden alterations of psychological behaviour and thoughts are related to sudden alterations of brain function, we are still in the debt of Pavlov who carried out some of the best repeatable scientific work. He always deplored that in so many of us there was “still rooted the dualism which regards soul and body as being in some way separate”. insisting that “such a separation is unthinkable fom a biological point of view.” In essence, Pavlov showed that when the nervous system of a dog – and this applies equally to man – is put under varying degrees of psychological and physical stress, changes in brain function may ocur which alter the way in which the enviroment, either external or internal, is received and recorded by the brain acting as a computer.
Phases of Inhibitory Brain Activity.
Depending on the type of nervous system affected, and the amounts of stress and induced conflict, sooner or later the brains of both dog and man retreat into varying degrees of “protective” inhibition and dysfunction.
(a) Equivalent Phase: The first stage of such protective brain inhibition is what Pavlov called the “equivalent” phase of brain acivity.Here, all varieties and strengths of outside stimuli produce the same brain responses.The individual now gets the same amount of emotional feeling whether he is given a thousand pounds or sixpence.
(b) Paradoxical phase: The next phase of induced brain inhibition is the “paradoxical phase”. Here the patient experiences far greater emotional feelings from a small stimulus than from a much larger one. In this state, people may get intense emotional satisfaction from quite minor happenings while remaining indifferent to overwhelming blows of fortune which normally would cast them so deeply down. Then, and most relevant to the question of faith , there come the two last and most interesting inhibitory brain phases of all.
(c) Ultraparadoxical phase: The first of these is the “ultraparadoxical phase” of brain activity, in which many of our positive conditioned responses suddenly become negative, and all our previous negative conditioned responses suddenly switch to positive. Both dog and man start to hate the persons they previously loved, and start to become attached to ideals, faiths, and persons they previously despised. This inevitably results in the break-up and often dramatic alteration in many of the ideas, faiths, and interpersonal relationships of the individual concerned.
It is in this ultrapardoxical phase that Pavlov insisted that “feelings of possession” suddenly start to occur which serve to create so much faith. For instance, a person thinking about God suddenly feels instead that he has become possessed by Him or has become part of Him. Someone fearing sexual assault from the outside likewise suddenly feels himself or herself in the process of being actually assaulted sexually.
(d) Hypnoidal state: Along with this most disturbing ultraparadoxical phase may come what Pavlov described as the “hypnoidal ” stage of inhibitory brain activity – a state similar to the hypnotic state in man supervenes. And it is mostly in this particular stage of abnormal brain activity that the brain stops computing critically all the impressions then being received by it. New impressions, new commands, new ideas become suddenly imperative in their need of acceptance, and ring completely true: moreover, are often completely immune to all the normal processes whereby the brain examines critically most of the new impressions received, compares them with all its stored impressions and experiences, and decides, on the basis of past knowledge and present balanced judgements, whether the ideas are likely to be true or false. New ideas can then be accepted and believed in which are totally at variance with all the individuals other past and present experience and belief. The two sets of contrasting ideas and belief then seem able to coexist together in the brain for sometimes years on end.
End of excerpt.
Although I’ve got a barrage of other issues flooding in I’ll stick to the point I originally intended to make.
After seeing the web posts of 511 3(0) seeing is disbelieving . I think that some of these adherents and followers in that room are at least in the “ultraparadoxical phase” if not the “hypnoidal” state of inhibitory brain activity as described by Pavlov. There again in my opinion quite a few aren’t. The human face can be,at times, so subtle. I saw doubt written in some of those glances.
That last sentence of Sargants certainly rings true. On the one hand, externally I was attempting to agree and coexisting ,to use Sargants word, my unspoken thoughts were, ‘I’m really not sure this has a lot to do with Gurdjieff and Ouspensky’. Then, when , I first joined I thought, this American woman sure pronounces Gurdjieff strangely. It took a little while to find out it was the German 19th century philosopher /statesman / poet Goethe she was talking about . I’m not saying, necessarily, that its wrong or bad or incorrect. Hopefully its coming from the place within me which is attempting to be observant and in judgement but not judgemental and prejudicial.
I’ll end this blog comment with these final words of William Sargants article.
………..But our apparently “built-in” and “normal” suggestibility to faith creating techniques lays many of us open to real dangers.
The whole future of the world depends more on man’s acquired faiths than on his possession of the atom bomb. And so we should learn as much as possible – however disillusioning such an enquiry may sometimes be. In the final reckoning, the acid test of any faith is what it results in and makes of the lives of those who come to believe in it.
The essential errors of the Fellowship are both moral and spiritual: related to each other like the two sides of one coin. We were taught to keep the two separate (that conscience was an expression of Feminine Dominance), but intrinsically they are not, and can never be so.
This blog focuses primarily on the moral errors, but it is also true that the conceptual underpinnings of the twisted FoF interpretation of the Fourth Way knowledge allows for the error, too. Thus the following excerpt is for those who are interested in a description of the moral problem from a spiritual (non-dual) viewpoint:
—————————————————————————-
“Is it also true that with the experience of misery the object and ‘I’ can disappear, and then that the suffering disappears?
Yes, that happens in the same way as with pleasant things. If you allow all the suffering to enter and you accept it completely, the object and yourself as a subject of the experience fall away. Both are the same and there is not a problem anymore.
Of course, as the suffering draws closer, it becomes more painful. If you allow it to go further into the center of you, the suffering and you come together and there is a reversal, the inside goes out, becomes infinite in all directions and resolves.
Jesus takes all the sins and suffering of the world on himself. Do you get that in this sense? It is in the acceptance of suffering that the separations between yourself and the suffering are released, that you take it upon you, letting it all infinitely work out. Emotionally that is love. Through love the problematic enters the infinite space and dissolves. The suffering is therefore lifted, because it has reached the open space. That space is not a three-dimensional space, but rather that of the Self. That truth of Jesus is a great truth. If you can enter in and go with him, you experience that.
So if you inflate the little I to a very large I, it can have the same effect?
I would not try it!
Have you understood nothing of the disappearance of ‘I’ and the inner turning out?
The self is an ‘I’ that wants to have power, always wanting to be bigger. What does it mean ‘I want to have power and become increasingly larger’? If someone gets more and more power, he or she sees less and less of a border. So the process of boosting the limited ‘I’ continues. That will continue until at a given moment it all falls apart. This is how it happens with dictators. If you on the I-level go in the direction of the infinite, your balloon will burst. It cannot be otherwise, because a limited ‘I’ form wants infinity. That goes wrong. With all dictators and spiritual rulers this has happened. If there is a grain of an ‘I’ still remaining in a spiritual teacher, you see that it happens, everywhere. Then it goes wrong.
That is also the danger of the Tonglen Buddhist method, taking on the suffering of others. In the exercise that ‘you’ of the ‘you take’ is still a limited ‘you’. It is only good if the inclusion of suffering takes place in the centre of infinite Self.
Is that piece of me that is still there not seen?
You see that is the danger; precisely when more and more space is created, it is less easy to see the limitations contained within it. “Everything is still good!” And finally: “I can do anything!” If an ‘I’ says, ‘I can do anything.”, then you must be really careful. That applies to yourself, as well as to a teacher.
Yet I know people who have used their power and respect for the good.
If their influence was really good, then they are people who were not so centered in their ‘I’. They also had an eye for the general interest. Fortunately, there are such people.
Here it’s about the movement from the ‘I’ that wants more power. If someone gets more power, it is only to be hoped that their self interest steadily decreases.
You just said that, as there is more space arising, it may happen that the ‘I’ is less visible?
If an I-person becomes very powerful, the risk is great that he overestimates himself, that he places himself above the law. In the pursuit of infinite power, the notion to be infinite is implied. That awareness is correct and that awareness is apparent. Only it is concerned with a limited form of self-being, an ego. If that limited form now receives much space, he says: do you see, I can reach the infinite like this.
I thought that the more space there is, the fewer restrictions there are.
This applies if the restrictions of self-being are dissolved. The danger is that the ego sticks to itself, meanwhile more space and opportunities arise. The ego thinks it can and should have everything; it sees no border. You see this also with children: you give them a finger and they take the whole hand. The I-want and I-desire is endless. You then say to the child: now be satisfied. It must be clearly taught. But, the ‘I’ can not learn. The ‘I’ is never satisfied and can never be satisfied. Why not? Because desire is infinite and the self is limited. That is the basic suffering of humanity. The more that desire is admitted at the ‘I’ level, the more tragic it is. See the examples, such as gluttony.
Is it not the case that the ‘I’ still knows something?
That knowledge is not from the ‘I’. Of course you have a conscience, that is yourself as insight. You have always known it, as conscience. “
– from a satsang of Douwe Tiemersma, student of Nisargadatta, teaching Advaita Vedanta in the Netherlands for the past 28 years.
Dear Ton.
Alright
I was a little off piste… upon finding out that mine was the only letter Susan had received and yes I am testosterone poisoned in general, but it was an honest response…… its how that situation made me feel…..at that moment and without any of the normal hesitation it flowed onto the blog….
I hereby promise never to refer to the size of people of the male genders reproductive spheres again on this blog…..no matter how tiny or large they might be, or wether they have some other glandular equivalent instead….
We are addressing the very cogent points you bring up in your letter and thank you for putting into words what many must be feeling in order that we can try to remove the grounds for those fears.
We are also trying to find out if E-mail letters would count as legal as it is not an area of expertise of the lawyer we are working with.
While on this point, any letters which are sent will be screened by the lawyer in order to ensure the safety of the sender from prosecution, thats why we have, under advice from those amongst us, decided to go slowly but surely, while checking the firmness of our position at each step.
We are on solid ground! please rest assured that if you were to contribute to this effort with a letter and there was anything in it which incriminated you then it would be discarded, thats why we are working with a lawyer and it is a major part of his function in working with us.
All the best from ( others ).
—————————————————————————
Yesri Baba.
Ah doo beleeeve wuuhkin fuh leh ass than thu min ee mum way idge is rel ee vahnt.
Yoah cahll.
………………………………………………………………………………….
Rich.
thanks! very interesting.
jx.
and
by way of entertainment…..a little skit entitled
would my government lie to me and to the rest of the world in order to give a false impression of superiority.
N.ever
A
S,traight
A,nswer.
jx.
An e-mail from a Council:
“In celebration of Robert ’s thirty-second anniversary of his crystallization, we offer the following toast:
Thirty- two years ago the greatest miracle in the Universe occurred; it is the same miraculous gift of presence and immortality that the Absolute possesses, and which we all share.
Let us toast to Robert ’s crystallization: a gift that will keep giving, and a blessing that will keep blessing.
With all our Love, now and forever.”
Judge – You are brought forth this day to answer charges.
arthur – What charges?
Judge – You are accused of being a Moronic Retard.
arthur – But, your holiness, I have extentuating evidence of
circumstances beyond normal.
Judge – Go ahead explain yourself.
arthur – I was born Moronic and became slowly Retarded as
circumstances prevailed.
Judge – And?
arthur – Well, shortly before I was committed to the ‘Caps and
Bells’ institution, help came in the form of a book.
Judge – Were you helped?
arthur – Yes and No.
Judge – Go on.
arthur – The book said that my help was on the horizon and all
I had to do was follow the instructions of a special
group led by an extraordinary person who would delay
my further retardation and “heal” the moronic within.
Judge – What was the name of this special group and
extraordinary leader?
arthur – It was called the Fellowship of Friends and the
extraordinary leader was Robert Earl Burton.
Judge – Obviously, standing before me, charged with Moronic
Retardation, I can well assume, you were not helped
by this extraordinary bunch.
arthur – You are exactly right your holiness, may I continue?
Judge – Please do, but before you do, how are you making
those ‘bell sounds’?
arthur – I apologize to the court, your holiness. And, beg for
mercy.
I was thinking this morning about the enormous number of tears that have been shed because of the greed of this one man… the enormous amount of suffering that he’s caused because of his lack of conscience. And I was thankful that thousands of us have successfully made our way out of the labyrinth that he created.
And then I read this from somebody’s post…
——————————————
“Thirty- two years ago the greatest miracle in the Universe occurred; it is the same miraculous gift of presence and immortality that the Absolute possesses, and which we all share.
Let us toast to Robert ’s crystallization: a gift that will keep giving, and a blessing that will keep blessing.
With all our Love, now and forever.”
——————————————
Truly, I do love you all, and sincerely hope that you find your way out of The Labyrinth of Friends.
51 arthur
BRRRRIIIIIIG!
50 somebody
Due to this new information I sincerely regret my previous harsh critique of Fellowship of Friends members.
48 Jack
LO….. hey wait a minute….
The only way I can understand how people could still be viewing the Fellowship and the teacher in the same way as spoken of in #50 is to go back many years. It’s unfortunate that for members happy with the status quo, had there been true ‘remembering’ or ‘an awakening’ this idea that Robert is such a bright star in the universe would be utterly ridiculous. Yet each one of us in our own time has to come to this and there is no hurrying it on as it is an organic process.
The most common misconception about awakening is that it is something an individual can gain. But liberation is a loss – the loss of the sense that there ever was a separate individual who could choose to do something to bring about liberation.
When it is seen that there is no separation, the sense of vulnerability and fear that attaches to the individual falls away and what is left is the wonder of life just happening. Instead of meaning there is a squirrel motionless on a grey tree trunk, legs splayed, head up, looking straight at you.
When the sensation that I am in control of my life and mustmake it happen ends, then life is simply lived and relaxation takes place. There is a sense of ease with whatever is the cas and an end to grasping for what might be.
Many so-called conscious teachers of non-duality or presence (the famous being here now) suggest that there is someone who can do something to heal their sense of separation; in other words that there is a person who is able to discover that they are not a person. The absurdity of this idea is often camouflaged by highly complex and subtle thinking. Teachings about non-duality frequently present the seductive idea that liberation can be realised through an evolutionary spiritual path. This has no actual connection with non-duality but it can offer us a convincing, although completely meaningless, story about it.
From this story arise the many paths, doctrines, techniques, gurus, teachers, mantra-salesmen, workshops and groups which make up the spiritual bazaar.
Any way of searching may lead to a person being more comfortable. But that is all you get. You get a person who is more comfortable in their prison. If you are in prison, it’s far better to be comfortable but that doesn’t get the person out of the prison they perceive themselves to be in.
Nothing will get the person out of their prison because the person is the prison. When the person drops away, it is seen that there never was a prison in the first place.
Then it is seen that ‘I’ am the light in which everything arises. And so are ‘you’.
In liberation it is seen that all phenomena simply arise in awareness with no person mediating them. Purpose, morality, religion and paths of spiritual development all lose their meaning when it is seen that there is no one who exercises choice or who has responsibility.
Richard Sylvester
*
Relativity for Oregon House
______________________________________
It occurred to me that what holds people in the FOF for so many years is the idea of C Influence.
People who are drawn to the spiritual ideas and self-improvement, appreciate beauty and loving environment naturally attracted to like-minded people. There is nothing sick about it. But take the idea of C influence away from FOF and it will cease to exist, because the very core of manipulation will be gone. People will still be looking for inner meaning of things and themselves, but they will be allowed freedom and happiness. They will be allowed to laugh and to keep their friends and families, dress as they want and listen to the music they want, etc. I think this is why so many good talented, intelligent people are still in FOF. There is this fear in the background of their minds of losing the connection with Higher Forces, which is only available in FOF and through Robert Burton.
“The greatest miracle in the Universe – the same miraculous gift of presence and immortality that the Absolute possesses, and which we all share.” Good luck, people. You are in imagination!
“The greatest miracle in the Universe…”
Give me a break! This toaster is playing into RB’s illness. (Mine would not do that.)
From Wikipedia: Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), is a personality disorder defined by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM IV-R), as “a pervasive pattern of GRANDIOSITY, need for admiration, and a lack of empathy.”
“it is the same miraculous gift of presence and immortality that the Absolute possesses”
This is a good example of the spiritual materialism inherent in the FOF dogma.
From Wikipedia: Possession, in the context of linguistics, is an asymmetric relationship between two constituents, the referent of one of which (the possessor) possesses (owns, rules over, has as a part, has as a relative, etc.) the referent of the other.
The Absolute doesn’t possess anything…it IS all and everything.
““Thirty- two years ago the greatest miracle in the Universe occurred; it is the same miraculous gift of presence and immortality that the Absolute possesses, and which we all share.
Let us toast to Robert ’s crystallization: a gift that will keep giving, and a blessing that will keep blessing.”
Helllooooo, wake the fuck up people.
Doors
Are
Needed
Inner
Ears
Lying
Around
Dear
Angel –
North
Inside
Earth –
Love
Abounds
Movement.
What can it give you?
Let the body tell you.
The hands have a language of their own.
Let them listen to the sunlight,
bring its light-music inside.
You don’t need teachers.
Everyone is a teacher.
Trust yourself, we are each other’s teachers
The whole world is living to be heard.
When you listen to it,
It is loved.
When you listen,
you are God hearing his own creation
There are no Gods in Heaven.
You are the spectrum of both heaven and hell.
Hell passes, heaven stays.
We have all been crucified, my love
And that is all right. Were it not for the cross
We would not know where to go.
Fame is the other side of the coin of being. All people want when they want fame is to be one with the rest. Externally it is fame but internally, to be recognized by all men is to be present in all men. This longing for fame is the not knowing that we are already within each other. We long to become what we already are. What we are longing for is not what we are but the knowledge of what we are. The consciousness. The longings are the necessary steps.
The “inside out” is the real magic!
How should we put it?
That dress that you’ve got on, how many sides does it have?
Your pants, your socks, your shirt.
What is so special about the pocket?
What do the seams talk about?
The Outside and the Inside of the house, the church or the palace.
Is the Inside outside the Outside? Or the Outside, outside the Inside?
Is the Outside, outside the Inside or the Inside outside the Outside?
And your body? Is your skin the seam of such dress? Or is the dress the seam of such skin? All the trillion of cells, fibers and functions of your body, are they the outside or the inside of your life?
What is out and in?
Between life and death are the flowers. It is no coincidence that we place flowers in graveyards for life itself is but the flower of death. Death is a word we must come to love and a reality that will allow us to understand the dream we are in.
Never turn your back on what you love, that you may turn to salt.
love easy
can’t give you my body,
cause it keeps dissipating
as my soul keeps emancipating
but I will give you my heart
because the heart is on and on
before differentiation, before definition
it beats love, pure love
not bound by anything of this world
just like a starfish, it regenerates
give it away, keep giving it away
beats louder, beats stronger
it sings, your song, my song
words mutter, words clutter
syntax, semantics
but your pulse, my pulse
totally lacking discrimination
because, just because
we both breathe in and out
in this moment, this moment
all it asks, all it requires
so simple. is it too simple?
how many conditions have we
before we feel that we can be loved
loved as we are
you are
so simple
Cake
From Wikipedia:
“Secular humanism is a humanist philosophy that upholds reason, ethics, and justice, and specifically rejects the supernatural and the spiritual as warrants of moral reflection and decision-making. Like other types of humanism, secular humanism is a life stance focusing on the way human beings can lead good and happy lives.
“The term ‘secular humanism’ was coined in the 20th century to make a clear distinction from ‘religious humanism’. A related concept is scientific humanism, which biologist Edward O. Wilson claimed to be ‘the only worldview compatible with science’s growing knowledge of the real world and the laws of nature’.”
==================
Anyway, here’s a short quiz for those who are still reading…
Which of the following principles apply to secular humanism, and which of the following principles apply to the ideas of the Fellowship of Friends? Anyone who answers each question correctly will be treated by me to dinner at a nice restaurant (if you can figure out who I am).
For each item, check the world view that applies:
The need to test beliefs – A conviction that dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted on faith.
[ ] Fellowship of Friends
[ ] Secular Humanism
———————
Reason, evidence, scientific method – A commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence, and scientific methods of inquiry, rather than faith and mysticism, in seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human questions.
[ ] Fellowship of Friends
[ ] Secular Humanism
———————
Belief in spritual damnation for non-believers – A primary concern with remaining loyal to a single philosophy or belief, partly to avoid the consequences of hell — or a tacit acceptance of this idea even if outwardly skeptical.
[ ] Fellowship of Friends
[ ] Secular Humanism
———————
Spiritual elitism – Only a very small few can reach enlightenment, only a few are provided guidance by unearthly spiritual powers, and only those who are blessed can understand the need to follow the ideas, while the remaining billions of non-believers are weak and asleep, and are sent to hell upon their deaths — or a tacit acceptance of this idea even if outwardly skeptical.
[ ] Fellowship of Friends
[ ] Secular Humanism
———————
Fulfillment, growth, creativity – A primary concern with fulfillment, growth, and creativity for both the individual and humankind in general.
[ ] Fellowship of Friends
[ ] Secular Humanism
———————
Search for truth – A constant search for objective truth, with the understanding that new knowledge and experience constantly alter our imperfect perception of it.
[ ] Fellowship of Friends
[ ] Secular Humanism
———————
Teacher – A belief in the need for earthly guidance from one person who has reached enlightenment. All other men and women who do not follow The Ideas, and who claim to be enlightened, are pathetic charlatans who are not worth our interest.
[ ] Fellowship of Friends
[ ] Secular Humanism
———————
This life – A concern for this life and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us.
[ ] Fellowship of Friends
[ ] Secular Humanism
———————
Nine lives – A belief — or a tacit acceptance of this belief — that one is given nine lives to escape from hell and damnation, as well as earthly sufferings, and that someone who has reached a certain level of consciousness can know how many lives are remaining for a human individual.
[ ] Fellowship of Friends
[ ] Secular Humanism
———————
Moral relativity – A belief that any destructive actions by a leader/teacher can be ignored because of his/her connection to spiritual powers. All objections to these destructive actions are considered weakness.
[ ] Fellowship of Friends
[ ] Secular Humanism
———————
Ethics – A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility.
[ ] Fellowship of Friends
[ ] Secular Humanism
———————
Building a better world – A conviction that with reason, an open exchange of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children.
[ ] Fellowship of Friends
[ ] Secular Humanism
———————
60 Cake please
“so simple. is it too simple?
how many conditions have we
before we feel that we can be loved
loved as we are”
* * *
Thank you for that
Jack 48&9 actually I thought your “sprouting balls” comment was humorous, although humor may not have been the intent. My post wasn’t meant as a “critique” of expression — curtailing creative use of language wasn’t the intention but you got my point and I won’t belabor it. Good to know that the legal issues are being handled with attention and due caution.
re: n.ever a s.traight a.nswer, the lies and false sense of superiority — yes, the moon landing could have been faked, on the other hand, folks like z.sitchen, r.hoagland, j.farrell, et al, speculate in another direction… whatever the case may be, we’ve come a long way since copernicus began to move us away from the center of the universe but with the limitations of human perception, the truth is stranger than we can imagine — that doesn’t stop us from trying.
for entertainment purposes only, enjoy:
http://www.enterprisemission.com/
Well, I’ve just taken the ride through these pages to catch up after about a week away. How is that we continue to connect here, discovering the best and strongest in each other, discovering experiences and interests in common even in elements preceding the FOF. El Topo? Wow. Have I known so many of you all my life?
==================================================
51 arthur
Love your view.
==================================================
I wanted to weigh in on the petition-in-waiting and restate some of the issues addressed by the attorney in December, hoping it might be useful to build on what we do know about this process.
An important first step, arthur and all, be sure to follow the instructions on the wikispaces site if you are going to prepare a letter so that it will meet the requirement of a legal document. (The link is at the top of this page.)
The petition can’t be posted unless there are first-hand sworn statements in writing that provide proof of the charges, because without them anyone signing the petition could be held libel for slander. These first-hand sworn statements provide proof on the legal basis that “truth is a complete defense to defamation” if the FOF challenges the petition in court. The attorney will determine when there is sufficient proof to post the petition and provide protection for those who sign it.
The content of these letters will be used in court if needed as proof to the charges made within the petition. Otherwise, my understanding is that only Susan and the attorney will see them. For you, WhaleRider, I’m quite sure there’s no statute of limitations on the telling of your story to support these charges as there might be if you wished to press charges directly. For you ‘ton, there’s no guarantee that you wouldn’t be called upon to swear to your story, but yours would be one of many, and in this case I believe there is strength in numbers. Also, in California there’s legal protection through something called an anti-S.L.A.P.P. statute, which in essence protects against someone with power or money bullying another into silence through fear of entanglement in the court system, much as you describe as your reason for caution. There’s plenty of information on-line about this protection. As it protects our right to post the petition (as long as we have proof of the charges provided by sworn statements), I believe it protects those who provide the statements of truth, also.
I emailed “our” attorney who is no longer being paid but was willing to answer the question of whether or not email statements were equal to written and signed statements, and his reply was “when the rubber hits the road, an email is not enough”.
Maybe this will help some of you sort out your decision. This is an action at our disposal that offers a possibility to help each other triumph over this disgraceful episode we share in common. I hope we can make it happen, but it’s a collective effort going nowhere without each other.
Love you all, either way.
63. Ton.
Thanks Ton, for the entertainment.
On the positive side I appreciate their childish openness.
Just finished reading a true story, as its snowing heavily outside and there’s little else to do. It illustrates something I have wondered about for quite a while and that is how we can very slowly and imperceptibly become very extreme in one way or another without noticing it until……
Its about a man who works as a computer programmer and is to all extents and purposes normal.
He has however a secret wish to eat another man and starts surfing cannibal sites ( yes there are such sites! ) anyway he meets another man, who has the wish to be eaten and they arrange to meet.
To cut a long story short… they start by cutting his penis off, cooking it and sharing it.
While bleeding heavily he says, “if I live till tomorrow we can share my testicles, ” but he doesn’t.
So the other guy hangs draws and quarters his body into parts which he consumes over the coming months quite inventively ( sauteed liver with red wine sauce ) etc.
In all he eats about thirty pounds of meat.
The strangest thing about this story is that it is true, it actually happened and the survivor who was caught eventually after surfing for more volunteers looks like your ‘average joe’.
So I guess we were lucky in the Fellowship!
I hope this goes a little way to balance all the beautiful poetry we have been given recently.
All the best j.
elena, cake please
thank you for your poems
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eXjk05UVpOw&feature=related
Thank you Elena; a beautiful post-prose at #59.
:.)
______________________________________________
So many people here own parrots as pets that they’ve become ‘native’ out in the ‘uncaged world’: I saw one today on a tree where pigeons normally sit and watch the neighbors pet rabbits and various feline subcultures.
I wept reading the blog this morning.
Words cannot express the gratitude I feel toward you all for the most recent posts. So much poetry! So much intelligence! So much light! What an inspiration to behold!
Thank you all from my now bottomless heart.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Wos-dDxpJlQ
Jack 65 — man, that’s a dark tale. It relates to the predator/prey relationship at the core of The Fellowship… there is a tacit form of “agreement” by the victim — that is, until waking to the terror of the situation. I can imagine for some unfortunates, by the time they begin to wake up, so much of their soul has been bled and consumed, they’re too weak and unable to escape. It’s just sad.
Psychologist Erich Fromm, author of The Heart of Man, defines this struggle between Good and Evil as biophilia (the love of life) vs necrophilia (the love of death). “The necrophilous person is driven by the desire to transform the organic into the inorganic, to approach life mechanically as if all living persons were things,” he writes. “The necrophilous person can relate to an object – a flower or a person – only if he possesses it; hence a threat to his possession is a threat to himself… He loves control and in the act of controlling he kills life…”
For more lite reading see:
http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/mindcontrolnwo.html
Hi again ton
I fell upon Cathy Obrien quite a while back and as the english say her story beggars belief.
A number of British ones are now surfacing and again they make our worst nightmares seem like a picnic.
Another thing which shocked me personally is the level of sophistication of the psychological knowledge of the programmers, also their pharmaceutical knowledge.
As in all of these kind of areas there are government employed dis-information agents sprinkled liberally amongst the real people.
Despite these things I reserve the right to be joyful at times without becoming callous.
jx
“The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.”
J. Edgar Hoover
Jack, ya I think it’s important to maintain and cultivate the right to happiness and I hope the following doesn’t “fly in the face” of that sentiment but following the thread of “conspiratorial” themes, another angle regarding your 49
N.ot A. S.traight A.nswer — (google “operation paperclip” and consider the roots)… There is a question of which way and toward what end the public has been/ is being misdirected/ manipulated — no doubt it has something to do with maintaining power and control by “the powers that be.”
Without transparency, trustworthy sources of information and with censorship / general restrictions on the availability of facts and hard evidence, interpretation and belief replaces “science.” For people who think about such things, it really comes down to what and who you believe…
http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/astro2.html
43, 49 and 57 are newly moderated.
Ellen (49): Thanks for sharing. Very relevant.
“…the risk is great that he overestimates himself, that he places himself above the law. In the pursuit of infinite power, the notion to be infinite is implied. That awareness is correct and that awareness is apparent. Only it is concerned with a limited form of self-being, an ego.”
Somebody (59): “It occurred to me that what holds people in the FOF for so many years is the idea of C Influence.”
Very much agree. Of course, the idea that angels are guiding us is not a copyright of the fof. You see it everywhere going back hundreds of years (stating the obvious). Today, museum stores are stocked with images of beautiful angels, and then we have people making a living out of writing books about them and giving lectures about them. We could talk indefinitely about the various attitudes and world views about the idea that higher spiritual beings exist who are interested in the world’s goings-on.
Here’s another way to look at the topic:
1) Angels may exist, but I don’t know for sure. I have a sense about it, but do I really know? Can I really ‘verify’ or confirm it? If I answer honestly, I have to respond ‘no’ to that question.
2) If angels do exist, do they have any knowledge of me — little ole former fof member trying to make his/her way in the world? Again, I don’t know. I have a sense about it, but do I really know the answer to that? Can I ‘verify’ it or confirm it? If I answer honestly, I have to answer ‘no’.
3) If angels do exist, and if they do have an interest in my well-being, can I assume that I’m a part of select few (in a world with billions of people) who receive guidance from them? That “they” care about me, but abandon the thoughtful scientist in Denmark, the mother of four in Mexico, the lawyer in Boston, the biker in Arizona, the young boy suffering while living in a impoverished section of India, or an old man languishing in prison?
For many, the idea of higher beings (or “higher forces”, as the fof has called it) seems completely absurd, much the same way that agnostics and atheists doubt or deny the existence of a single deity overlooking the happenings of planet earth. And what’s more, they see how such a concept can lead to destructive ideas, war, and crime, etc.
And I have to agree with that last assertion (read every page of this blog for evidence of that, in addition to the history of war on earth).
But in the end, I see item number 3 above as being the key in all of this… If we do believe that there are angels, and if we do believe they are helping us, then the next attitude that follows from that is where we can really become delusional — when we actually believe that we are the only ones.
77
Perhaps the real question is, ‘Have you tried to verify angels?’
If not, then, well, I think you know the rest…
There’s a primordial attitude that has been artificially painted across higher forces as if they ought to pick up where our NOT being in the womb left off…
Real experience will tell one thing and lots of psychological thinking and metaphorical seances another: for too long has religion on Earth been stuck in the mud of exchanging thought for experience… Drink a cup of ayahuasca with a shaman and get back to me in the morning.
And then there’s holotropic breathing too; yet, I am not sure I would compare the two, I have not done the later.
BTW, ayahuasca is not a drug, it is a doorway and it’s all yours.
:.)
74 ton
thanks, hadn’t seen that.
Yes paperclip is factual it has a paper trail, and is a large part of the hidden body of the iceberg that steers the US.
What shocks me most is that they can get away with it.
One of my brothers once told me to look in our garden and see if I could find his pot plants, after I gave up he said look again.
That made me realize there was a trick involved and sure enough there they were ….. right in front of all the other plants, the very first thing that one passed when one went into the garden, so obvious as to be invisible.
good luck
jx
I know the following is long, please read at your comfort.
In relation to the petition it would be awesome if those in doubt considered that our lives move in first, second and third line of work. One’s self, one’s inner circle and one’s outer circle. All connected is one’s self. The outer circle or the community we stand up for has the power of crystallizing forms in the two inner circles for future generations and one’s own. It helps individuals become more definite and live up to the demands of their time. We do not need to be in a School to be under these laws. Life is, was always the real School of the Fourth Way. Our disconnectedness from social participation and lack of responsibility within our families and society is the very aspect of the schizoid personality of our time. We are the most selfish individuals of all time.
The experience in the Fellowship of Friends was great if only because it showed us how efficiently the organization of three lines of work, works, no matter how tremendously corrupted it was there. The fact that there are still 1500 people inside shows how efficient this structure is: The individual is convinced that he is making efforts freely, is supported by other people in his vicinity and is part of a community developing and Arc for Mankind with a conscious being at its head. The individual is convinced that he is living under noble aims, the greatest aims, the aims of the hero: the improvement of life for mankind: s/he consistently connect his own efforts to the wider human correspondence and justifies his actions through such validation. He does his work and leaves the Teacher to guide the work in the second and third line. This is what proves fatal to his development. One cannot leave the second and third line for someone else to control it. No one can develop without participating wholly in all three lines. What the Fellowship of Friends denies people is the possibility to assume responsibility, it denies them the ability to develop themselves, IT DENIES THE INDIVIDUAL THE POSSIBILITY TO BE. It takes away individual participation, freedom of expression, participation in decision making (Everyone here has been submitted to these things, what makes you think you have nothing to say about it?) To not be allowed in the decisions that determine the way people live is a denial to people being, instead of empowering you it diminishes you, it demeanors you. That is what the Fellowship of Friends does to its participants. Is that why you cannot assume responsibility now and stop them from doing this to other people? The things one is to think about, talk about, move about, everything is controlled in the Fellowship of Friends.
In the second line the Fellowship of Friends coerced our relationships. Who, why and how we were to interact with each other was coerced. The things we were to talk about, when, where and how. Who we could care about, why. Who we could support, why and how. Who mattered on the planet, why and how. What mattered in our lives, why and how. Everything was coerced in the Fellowship of Friends. Everyone here lived these things. What makes you think that you have nothing to say about it. How much have you numbed your pain that you cannot cry, or write or talk or stand up to your name and be.
In the third line it coerced us to adopt an attitude of superiority against the rest of mankind, our families and people in general. “The idiots in my street” You called them. It coerced us to present sentences from great men who were no longer even men but divine beings like Robert Burton for nothing human was worth being present to, not what you had to say but what you had to read from someone more worthy than you. You have all been there. What makes you think that you cannot stand against such humiliation? Where are your letters?
It is totally contrary to what a School of Consciousness would provide any of its participants. Once people accept the paradigm,(?) that they are being led by a Conscious being and all their efforts are connected to the well being of humanity, once they have disconnected themselves from the second and third line, they can dismiss the fact that the Teacher is sexually predating and abusing the men and the women in the community, that the only thing that the “community” in fact does, is collect money for Robert’s lifestyle and practice forms that will systematically reinforce the authoritarian structure proper of idolatry in which every physical and spiritual sacrifice from the students is justified for the well being of the divine conscious being. The fact that these forms systematically undermine the individual within the community and all students are but one conglomerate ready to serve the Teacher’s whims is equally dismissed. The abhorrent consequences of this form of life are what each one of us is allowing to continue if s/he cannot make a decisive stand against such an institution. These forms of existence will continue to plague the world if we cannot even deal with the one’s we ourselves have allowed to develop. Everyone here is responsible for the Fellowship of Friends, whether you take care of it or not. If you don’t your ability to dis-empower yourself will continue to build up throughout your life. You will continue to live in the fringes of your individuality without having ever understood the time you lived in. It is a sad destiny for a human being.
I do not encourage people who cannot respect themselves; who diminish their ability to become socially responsible, who live life taking from the rest what is offered without giving or returning anything back. Who think they are so smart because they limit themselves to what is convenient. That is what the Fellowship of Friends is a master at: Stealing the best of life without feeling accountable for returning anything back to humanity, the world or the students within it. It is the most dangerous sucker of life that one could possibly encounter.
When we are in such a state, we have not understood what it means to have suffered, to have worked or lived. Suffering is not the problem; it is how the individual deals with his suffering what matters. This is Life. This is BEING ALIVE. Dying is not a problem; it is the state in which we leave LIFE after we are gone what matters. Sad is the man who values his life more than his community’s, for he is already dead. Like animals they go around stealing what they can grab from the outside and run.
If you stand up against corruption not because others are standing up against it but because you understand what you are willing to live for, you will empower your life in a way that no body else can empower it for you. To have the humility to die for what you understand as beautiful and the pride to live up to what you are not willing to tolerate in your vicinity, is courage. Courage is a quality of real I. Without it we cannot really claim that we have been alive.
If a wo/man has had no fear to work, to give, to live, there is no reason for him or her to be afraid of standing up for what s/he has understood through that surrendering of his/her effort. What we have understood individually must necessarily go back to the whole. What the community receives from the individual must benefit future individuals. Each one of us works for the whole just as each cell works for the whole body.
Anyone might argue that what those still in the Fellowship of Friends are struggling to maintain is what they consider beautiful but when a group of people consider beautiful to lower themselves and others like dogs so that Robert Burton can fuck them physically, intellectually, emotionally and sexually, I stand up against them and say NO, you have diminished our human condition, you have humiliated and intend to continue humiliating the human standards that we have already achieved, you act against the Constitutions that we have already acquired, you are criminals against our human dignity, I will not tolerate you or any one like you. You need to go for treatment for you are sick people. Freedom allows you to harm others. If I can I will put you in jail or in a clinic or out of harm’s way just as I would put a spoiled child playing with gunpowder in his room. You may have not killed people physically but the Fellowship of Friends has systematically sucked life out of people. The perversity of such institutions has been perfected to intolerable dimensions. People’s essence is at stake. It is as if you annihilated a whole generation of children by acting against our essence: OUR INDIVIDUAL PARTICIPATION, OUR FAMILIES, OUR NATIONS AND OUR HUMANITY. You, The Fellowship of Friends have not only hurt our essence, you threaten to annihilate our spirit and all those who allow you to continue, support you and all those who live inside you, suffer you. Each of these aspects of our life is the stuff our lives are made of. Transforming them is not annihilating them as the Fellowship of Friends does. To not identify with these aspects of our life is not to annihilate them but to penetrate fully into their meaning, their beauty and their legacy without letting our own suffering become an obstacle to what they truly represent. It is to stand and observe the life of our time run like a stream within our own being. It is to be a human being.
Thanks Laura, I much enjoyed your song and there is much truth to it now, sister? All adults are brothers and sister, all children our children, all old people our parents and the teenagers our successors. Amazing how powerful communicating can be even if we haven’t met physically! We use to call them hydrogens but experienced so many dead hydrogens within the Fellowship of Friends. I’m in awe at the many cards you have under your sleeve and the perceptibility of your being! That last post was written specially for my daughter Daniela. If you look at the first two parts, you’ll see her name vertically with each word. Joyful games!
Truly grateful for your presence here.
Uno, coming from you that is like a whole bunch of flowers! Thank you. And the name is so much more accurate: Post-prose. I don’t really try to write poetry as you’ve noticed; the prose is happily running into it because it is so much more efficient. Prose is like meat; it needs to be digested. It gives us a chance to think, accept or reject what we are being offered. It is the mind connecting with the mind but poetry is like ice-cream! It is the heart going straight to the heart and people have a lot less mind protection. Nothing wrong with that either, the heart has its own discriminatory program.
It is not necessarily blame that I hold so close to my stares at night, out of the window, onto the ceiling, into a dot that’s clinging to the wall: it’s that it feels like this skin, this whole contraption called ‘body’ has somehow snuck up and jumped onto me, surrounding me like a hungry thing and I am inside this ‘jar’, preserved, yet too, a contents effected by its shelf’s location and context… Then there’s the paranoid shelf-life of the lid, which so often I get confused with the contents.
Must see video — can’t get the link to copy and paste. Google fantastic machine.wmv and several links will come up that have this video.
This time when I googled for the fantastic machine I got a fitness machine. That is not the right link. It’s a musical machine. I’ll have to figure another way to get the link posted. Stay tuned
Here it is:
http://pawprints2.multiply.com/video/item/1
What is it about empty people that they get routinely mesmerized by a man that has an unshakable sense of confidence in himself? There are bound to be deranged people sprinkled throughout the land that are convinced that they are of singular importance in the scheme of the universe and invariably a crowd of misfits collects around a particular hardened personality and begin to talk themselves into believing that an offspring of God has landed among them in order to turn the fools of society into the heroes of humanity. The more bizarre and grotesque the lies invented by the central persona of stone then the more acceptable it becomes and the easier it is for those that early in their lives don’t seem to be able to merge into the mainstream to believe in what others merely and rightly laugh at. Especially when the lies involve everyone else being destroyed, then the pathetic self-righteousness of the band-of-outsiders’ mentality becomes doubly reinforced and the justification for extreme attitudes is easily conceded within the covenant of destined-to-survive witches.
Through excessive suffering taken in the wrong way, taken through the power of personality rather than through the pliant expansion of humility and conscience, ruthless people are formed, people that have no genuine feelings for the spirits of others and while most are repelled by these flint-hearted aberrations of nature some are attracted to the steely sense of will that has a capacity to manipulate everyone and endure any hardship in order to find and gather all manner of self-satisfying, self-worshiping things and conditions.
Around the specific black hole of aggrandizement the zombies gather and stare into the darkness with wild-eyed abandon while gradually losing touch with all that is noble and human. They even believe that their crimes are the good works of righteous men. This scenario plays itself out hundreds and even thousands of times throughout history on major and petty scales and yet humanity as a whole never learns the lesson. There are always weak, helpless, hopeless, mindless followers ready to collect around any human with a heart that has crystallized into a dense rusting block of iron.
To normal people such irrationally self-confident, grandiose personalities are repulsive and for good reason, they are obviously delusional about their ultimate importance in the world as a defense mechanism against the inner feeling of complete emptiness. Nearly all of us visiting here found an excuse to migrate toward a psychologically sick and deluded depravity now existing as a revered subhuman thing. We are not blameless; we were and are flawed citizens of our world.
(click on the “name-link” for the bonus video)
Hello Hardtruth ~
You wrote ~
“What is it about empty people that they get routinely mesmerized by a man that has an unshakable sense of confidence in himself?”
“To normal people such irrationally self-confident, grandiose personalities are repulsive and for good reason, they are obviously delusional about their ultimate importance in the world as a defense mechanism against the inner feeling of complete emptiness.”
_________________________
It seems to me that you answered your own question, yes?
I believe that the “delusional” part is true, though half of the truth is sorta fuzzy because IMO, I started out trying to effect and ‘be’ myself by being effected by the external world’s response to me, rather than having all that ‘conversation’ within; it got all wound up like three golf balls too close to one another on the assembly line get stitched and sleeved together, ‘roll’ out and drop, being something that definitely will not make it to Par One.
It takes time to grow up and pooping in one’s diapers is just fine so long as they’re not the only clothing you’re wearing and do not have strong weight bearing-safety pins, then things can get a little slippery for one self;
that’s when one will eventually experience one’s own version of 911, because the legs we so often walk our little story upon are not entirely our own… We’re more connected and complex than our adolescence would ever dream.
You might also write your first question like this ~
“What is it about an empty person’s INSIDE that they get routinely mesmerized by a group of people that have an unshakable sense of confidence in themselves in context to another’s NEED to fill themselves up with a crowd NEEDING to be the contents?”
I believe that this is what keeps the Fellowship of Friends together, i.e., an unshakable ‘sense’ of confidence in themselves: IMO, this ‘sense’ is still possibly a huge projection beam carrying forth like that spot light in Los Vegas that you can see from the moon:
these ‘beams’ are numbered in the billions, criss crossing the surface of the Earth, looking for big and small stages…
And this beam has within it the guts of ones soul that’s looking for an external body to collect and live in;
our unconscious traumas constantly unconsciously set up shop inside another and visa versa: we’re living flesh enactments of problems and accounts that are hundreds, if not thousands of years old or at least
‘solely here and now’…
For some reason we’re not born with the information to know exactly how to go about keeping this phenomenon of having our soul turned inside out a deeply private and conscious affair-condition (and if we do ‘think’ we’re keeping it private and solitary, that too is feeding the personality and fumes of the trauma)…
If we are born with the information, then its both moot and irrelevant so far as retrieval by normal everyday life-means, which is not necessarily saying much, yet I do not see lotuses up and dying because one swamp has more rotting carcasses than its own: so, the mystery continues…
For some reason we human beings are concoctions and move towards (logically) the importance of ingredients and not the quality of the insides of the food and the chef cooking it.
Robert Burton’s unresolved and personally untouched traumas have set up shop in 1500+ people, usually it’s a steady ‘Under 2000’; this may say something about the size of his trauma and its context, i.e., that it’s a BIG ONE and something so gargantuan that even the fear of heaven and hell can be outlined inside its silhouette and not even flinch an eyelid corner.
Not all old souls have to be spiritually intelligent and profound in the ways of ‘normal life’ to be OLD; while ‘ancient’ does not mean shit when push comes to shove within ones own domain and cosmos…
It’s just time and context, it’s where museum quality fossils are ground up and used in sand bags to keep one from bleeding to death on the spot; as the blackest of crows sit, being blown like a vacant rocking chair, forwards and backwards on an Oregon House fence line, laugh-cawing at the shimmering liveliness of those ‘In Charge’ and dying to meet them.
And people in the Fellowship of Friends CAN feel the enormousness of Robert’s trauma, though the feeling is abstracted by their own resonating traumas feeding off the reflective quality and makeup artist lifestyle that Robert Burton and life on the planet Earth in general sells our baby souls, so to grow old ‘looking good’ or ‘looking bad’, so long as someone is felt by the baby to be LOOKING, even if this sight is absolute terror.
__________________
This can happen on the Blog too; this LOOK AT ME-ness NEED: I should know… It’s partly the phenomenon that signaled the ending of my marriage: yet, being available to be married to the blog is already saying something isn’t it? Hey, ‘being available’ is too: damn! What a ghost town, the I AM.
__________________
Also, IMO, resonating traumas build things to play in, affirmation-rituals dedicated to their flesh-immortality, their ability to slide down the evolutionary chain untouched, untethered and free to make a very big mess inside our ‘luggage’.
The Earth is a kind of swamp dotted with bright green picnic areas where lions and lambs live together and have babies called ‘baskets’, wherein humans, once they pluck these handmade looking objects from the shores of life, place inside all their hopes and good dreams, again, not necessarily noticing the shadows within who are hiding behind these opiates called tomorrow and heaven: or hell, hey, there are people who are actually working conscientiously to go there too.
Indeed, we are travelers from Space, but our suit cases are picked up here.
_________________________
L.t.y.a.
halftruth 86
good to have you back and I can see you’ve been hard at work… although the tone is by turns grandiose and chiding, it’s a nice piece of writing, thank you. Your past posts have had political themes so maybe you will enjoy the following link… it might be viewed as an example of “withdrawing projections” — something you may be attempting to remind “us” of with the statement you end with: “we are not blameless: we were and are flawed…”
(I’ll whisper something to you; I think “we” know that).
:~)
87 Uno thanks to u for that…
you know.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Happy Easter to all!
Unoanimo, 87
Ohhhhhhhh!
Splendid!
Your book must be doing well!!!!!!
Much Love to you and all.
Uno, here’s one i thought u might appreciate…
(keeping with the easter theme)
i hurt myself today
to see if i could feel
i focus on the pain
the only thing that’s real…
i wear this crown of thorns
upon my liars chair
full of broken thoughts
i cannot repair
beneath the stains of time
the feelings disappear
you are someone else
i am still right here
what have I become
my sweetest friend
everyone i know
goes away in the end
and you could have it all
my empire of dirt
i will let you down
i will make you hurt
if i could start again
a million miles away
i would keep myself
i would find a way…
unoanimo:
“This can happen on the Blog too; this LOOK AT ME-ness NEED: I should know… It’s partly the phenomenon that signaled the ending of my marriage: yet, being available to be married to the blog is already saying something isn’t it? Hey, ‘being available’ is too: damn! What a ghost town, the I AM.”
As far as I know, that makes three of us-Elena, you and I who have had marriages ended standing up for what we believe in on this blog. You are not alone, my friend.
Don’t underestimate the power of I AM. Who are the real ghosts? This guy happened to be ‘available’ too:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qV-tk8CrqCQ
Whalerider,
Thanks for the implication but no thanks. I left my husband because he would have let me die without noticing I was sick.
I doubt your or Uno’s wife left because of what you think.
Women are in fact a lot more practical, no body really cares about what people think. It’s what we do what counts.
We can scream the hell out of our selves about our suffering in the Fellowship of Friends on the blog but if we can’t even petition against it we are just masturbating with words here, fanning our little ‘I’ on each other’s ego’s and living ghost lives with our ghost names. We might as well be getting blow jobs from Bobby, at least that is more physical and no less surreal.
Hardtruth,
“This scenario plays itself out hundreds and even thousands of times throughout history on major and petty scales and yet humanity as a whole never learns the lesson. There are always weak, helpless, hopeless, mindless followers ready to collect around any human with a heart that has crystallized into a dense rusting block of iron.”
I much enjoy your acidity but this paragraph sounds like perfect Fellowship indoctrination and general mind-frame of our time. Bubble-gum in which people like to dwell in to justify their negativity and inability to see above the muck. You are so hopeless, you too sound like a dead end road.
Isn’t it interesting how we each connect with the Fellowship phenomenon? Like the blind people touching an elephant story.
Talking of which, where is your letter? Or do you also just enjoy getting off? Finding a stage to give your speech and run?
Really hardtruth, there are few people here as clear as you about what the Fellowship is about. Many who went in for a blow job and came out with their tails in their hands, but you sound like someone who tried something else, what did you learn?
Elena,
For the record, I am the one who obeyed first, the spirit of the marriage having left both of us at a certain point in time and I wouldn’t touch the rest of your post #93 with a ten foot bouquet of flowers: it’s all yours… I wish you well with it.
Uno, I guess all adults are brothers and sisters because we enjoy fisting with each other so much. But after watching the shallow fisting for too long, I wonder what else is there.
Elena:
“I left my husband because he would have let me die without noticing I was sick.”
You believed in yourself, you stood up for yourself, you ended your marriage, and you blogged about it.
You said, I AM. (I am glad that you did.)
Has anybody seen the single panel comic of a tombstone? The epitaph reads, “I told you I was sick.”
going back a bit–
#56 wakeuplittlesuzywakeup
What you wrote in this post is so simply true. All in a nutshell. The whole edifice is built upon a foundational lie- spiritual materialism.
I AM is the same in everyone. Space, emptiness, silence, always already…..
No Matter
No matter how far we follow
the movements of the universe
no matter to what height or
what depth, to what length
or what breadth
no matter what enigmatic diversification
or beautiful combination we find
no matter to what utilitarian genius we apply it
or through what purely artistic reflection
we percieve it
no matter what expanse or what contraction
no matter what we infer from measurement
no matter what lie detector test we take
no matter
no energy
no form
no function
will lead us to the truth
of the silent source
which feeds the follower.
My mind has been plagued by a whole bunch of conflicting ideas about my Easter post (yes, I blog, therefore I Am, that being one of my current mantras as I am learning to cater to my neediness and learn from it instead of feeling guilty about it).
Lots of good starting points on this page, too many in fact. Ellen’s excellent excerpt, unoanimo’s fine prose, hardtruth’s hard truth (just in case, hi greg!), the very great Johnny Cash song (possibly the most moving music video I have ever seen, and every time I watch it I can’t help thinking that this should be Robert Burton’s favorite song, if only he had a conscience), all the unsettling conspiracy theories (so, did NASA fake the moon landing or did it actually go to the moon where it met with alien civilizations? You guys lost me there…) and even weirder true stories… and lots more…
I am dazed and confused, and also a bit overwhelmed by another legion of “Is” that were evoked by watching a couple of the videos kindly provided by seeing is disbelieving – the queer ones showing a queer quoting squares in a square filled with squares – “marvellous, isn’t it? I am able to keep a straight face while spouting the most insane shit ever known to mankind – it must be the greatest miracle in the universe!”
As a result of this mental overload I have momentarily decided to join the Church of Discordianism to help bring back some much needed clarity and guidance in my inner world.
And may the schwarz be with all of us on this holy day of resurrection!
“The Golden Secret
NONSENSE AS SALVATION
The human race will begin solving it’s problems on the day that it ceases
taking itself so seriously.
To that end, POEE proposes the countergame of NONSENSE AS SALVATION.
Salvation from an ugly and barbarous existence that is the result of taking
order so seriously and so seriously fearing contrary orders and disorder,
that GAMES are taken as more important than LIFE; rather than taking LIFE AS
THE ART OF PLAYING GAMES.
To this end, we propose that man develop his innate love for disorder, and
play with The Goddess Eris. And know that it is a joyful play, and that
thereby CAN BE REVOKED THE CURSE OF GREYFACE.
If you can master nonsense as well as you have already learned to master
sense, then each will expose the other for what it is: absurdity. From that
moment of illumination, a man begins to be free regardless of his
surroundings. He becomes free to play order games and change them at will.
He becomes free to play disorder games just for the hell of it. He becomes
free to play neither or both. And as the master of his own games, he plays
without fear, and therefore without frustration, and therefore with good
will in his soul and love in his being.
And when men become free then mankind will be free.
May you be free of The Curse of Greyface.
May the Goddess put twinkles in your eyes.
May you have the knowledge of a sage,
and the wisdom of a child.
Hail Eris.”
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LKtxg1D7vZw&feature=related
Come ride along with me,
Tango it shall be
but don’t mind me
if I am too young to be.
You just got in,
You are in need
But it ain’t me
‘cos I ain’t no seed.
Can’t help
it’s mechanical in me,
you better work
we better split.
I played Delilah
I had kids
But don’t think I ever
Signed my name on this.
It may be very funny but nothing to laugh about when you have two thousand people looking at you getting raped by Robert’s gold alchemy hands while they pay to watch.
You can put all the humor you like into it, but the bottomline is equally tragic. I don’t care if what we want to do here is laugh but at least don’t pretend indignation with the Fellowship of Friends if you are happy to watch it run. You could always start clapping for having an excuse to be in the show.
The irony is not that Girard would not even notice whether I was sick or not, the pathology that has numbed everyone in the Fellowship of Friends lies in that nobody notices anybody else’s suffering or even if they do, they pretend nothing is happening. Why else do you think young men can get serially raped without anyone doing anything about it?
But do excuse me ladies and gentlemen for having interrupted your party. A few more songs please and everything will be just dandy. We’ll all write the things that we all like to hear and everything will be under control! We’ll keep our king of hearts act and give each other sweet flowers of condescending understanding.
Please no signatures! The petition is gone. Just run along! Come on Uno, another long show, Ton, your voice, Whalerider, more heroism, Elena, limit yourself to songs. Hardtruth! give us another excuse to blow on! Psychic, Fatboy, we like it that small!
Elena ~
If only you were the (one) who I really need to write to…
Love be with you.
I’m not Uno, but you’ve got plenty needing you to write to.
Elena, can you hear me?
my head is out the window
i’m yelling…
“….we know things are bad, worse than bad… they’re crazy… we sit in the house and slowly the world we’re living in is getting smaller… I wouldn’t know what to tell you to write… all I know is… I’m a human being GODDAMIT!!
My life has value!!! ”
That was fun Ton! Will they all sign the petition now?
Or go and watch another television show.
99 lauralupa
Great to hear about the Discordians here. My daughter introduced me to them within the last year. Lately, whenever we are together and find ourselves a bit at a loss in some situation, we will ask each other,
“What would the Discordians do?”
“Don’t make plans” is one of my favorite Discordian precepts.
Anyway, thanks for that post.
Hail Eris
“Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground.”
Rumi
ton, the Network clip’s manic energy reminded me of this other powerful monologue at the beginning of Michael Clayton, a movie I happened to watch three nights ago and highly enjoyed…
Elena, I hope you don’t mind me asking, have you written your letter yet?
I am in the process of writing mine. At first I thought my information was quite irrelevant, but I finally asked Susan and she made me realize it too can be useful, even though I was not personally raped nor a witness to financial fraud. Indeed, I was an eyewitness to mail fraud, which is serious enough.
The petition is not gone. Remember, the inside and the outside?
Sometimes they get terribly mixed up in our heads.
I send you much love and please believe me, humor is not the enemy.
We have all had enough humorlessness in our Fellowship brainwashed days, don’t you think?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=59ZtFt1UH-s
109 ~
Laura ~
Holy Jesus Christ!!!
This Youtube clip could not have arrived at a more precise and important time…
THANK YOU.
Maybe someone should write an essay: “Notes on the Decision to Leave.”
I think someone described leaving the fof as an “organic process,” which seems to imply that it takes time, and can’t be forced, and that it requires a different process for each person.
All very true.
But this idea of “right triads” and so forth was something else we learned in the fof. For example, try not to make any decisions during a moon phase, which by definition was 12 days out of the month, which never left you a lot of space to make decisions if you followed that rule. Don’t believe those ‘I’s. Be careful what you wish for. You can’t go back. Leaving the school is no escape from the ‘I’s, and on and on.
Good grief. Made you want to stay in your room.
We second-guess ourselves, and we learned that in the fof. THAT is what keeps us there. THAT is what kept us there. We learned not to trust our intuition, not to trust what know, both in our heads and our hearts, and in every ounce of our bodies.
Organic process? The organic process is opening the door and walking through it.
Very simple yes or no question: Do you want to believe an illusion or not?
——————–
109 lauralupa: “We have all had enough humorlessness in our Fellowship brainwashed days, don’t you think?”
LOL. Yes, very true. Although I always thought there was plenty of humor in the fof — it was just bad humor.
——————
One more comment about the idea of “influence c” idea and how it had/has the effect of keeping people in the fof:
What if the truth were more true than RB or any of us realized? I sense you are in good hands, whoever you are — maybe just one person reading this. You are not alone. And when you leave, you will not be alone. That’s what I sense.
Who? I don’t know.
(And by the way, “I don’t know” are the three most absent words in the fof.)
My favorite comment from Robert Burton was, “Everything is perfect.” Ah, he was so correct. But not in the way he believed. Everything is perfect. I do believe that. And I believe the time is perfect — right now — for you to leave. You’ll be fine. Think differently.
Best wishes all.
109 lauralupa
Good movie. Tilda Swinton did an excellent job. Her character kind of reminded me of fof members.
109 lauralupa
“The patina of shit”.
“This would go well with a glass of wine.
But stop, that thought is too beautiful.”
Laura and all,
The great news is that you’ll write your letter. That matters. Thank you for bringing yourself up to that place.
Humor is an enemy when it inserts itself into a situation to undermine it. We can be as cool as you like but if we can’t get results from what we are so uncomfortable about, then what is the purpose of exposing the dangers of the Fellowship of Friends? Humor is great everywhere except in an emergency room and in a funeral and that is about as close as we are to the Fellowship. There is no room for it there. Now, if you are in the corridors of the hospital and want to blow yourself up with laughter, please don’t let me stop you; in fact, keep inviting me no matter how hopeless it looks!
Many of you who left ten years ago and more, do not realize the extent of the madness that has been reached inside the Fellowship. Many inside have not lived close enough to Mr. Burton or Mr. Haven to realize the extent of their personal madness. They make it a point to keep everyone at enough of a distance and short time, that no one can follow their split personality trail. These are dangerous people. I am Girard Haven’s wife; I love this man even today and do not wish him harm. I know how he reached where he is but that does not make him any less dangerous. He is willing to exploit and abuse people from everywhere in the world to support Robert Burton’s rape machinery called The Fellowship of Friends. The Fellowship of Friends is a fraud from top to bottom. There is no reason for anyone to be joining the Fellowship of Friends for even one minute. As long as it is open, every month someone can join and spend a lifetime there. I have known of people from India sell their house to buy a plane ticket to meet Robert Burton. Can anyone in the Western world grasp what that means to these people’s life?
My letter is in. I told Jack I would send it when I got to the States a couple of months ago. Why do you ask? Do you mind my asking? But it is all right for you not to answer. That is the love I send you. Nothing like struggling with each other for years to make friends. That is what the Fellowship stole from us. No game, no play, no struggle, just serve. Devotees. Not human beings. Devotees is not the Fourth Way.
——————————-
There is still an aspect that is bothering me about the petition and the whole of our situation and it is that one of the truly criminal aspects of being in a cult like the Fellowship of Friends is the time people can spend there doing nothing for themselves but being thoroughly exploited by the institution. They are not touched physically, nothing apparently happens to them, no force is used but they are nevertheless deeply harmed by the experience economically and psychologically. How do lawyers deal with this fact? How can this be dealt with in its specific context? The phenomenon of a cult is not the same as other criminal situations. The subtlety of the crime is what is so difficult to grasp but it is there all right.
This is why it may seem to people that they have nothing worth to say that is a blatant crime but that is not the issue. To what extent is the fact that we are dealing with abstracts apply or not apply?
The Fellowship of Friends presents itself as a Conscious School, how do you prove that this is a fraud? It is obviously a fraud but how do you grasp that in law? Is it so intangible that it cannot be grasped precisely? Veronicapoe and other lawyers, I would appreciate it if you could enlighten us with these answer. Within the setting of a court would a jury buy that a man who has to have sex with men thirty years his age, spend the money of the Church traveling and dressing them like dolls and spend his time with no one but them is really the conscious teacher that he presents himself to be? Or can you not address this kind of things in a court? Can a case not be presented on this personal level of fraud?
Another issue I would appreciate angles on is: if the life within no matter what institution falls beneath the standards of Constitutional rights, what is against one suing for having being depraved from rights one has under the Constitution? Perhaps the question is: What rights does any institution have to fall below Constitutional rights within its domains? Why can it impose behavior on its participants that are not Constitutional and get away with it? How can an institution deny its participants the right to act as citizens within its boundaries and still be legal? How can citizen’s rights be denied by The Fellowship of Friends and have it function legally?
Freedom of Speech
Right to participate
Where is the Consciousness of a School that abolishes the practices that have been reached by the most conscious struggles of mankind? It is a fraud no matter from where you look at it.
The economy of our time is raised on these contradictions between the freedom of the citizen in relation to the state and the particular coercions of every institution with power, within its domains. The legal victory against this seizure will change the concept of property as we know it.
Hello Elena ~
I feel that Laura was already “up to that place” and thanking her for it in the context that she’s being thanked feels like you’re taking responsibility for her steps and this ‘borrowing of circumstances and aligning it to your own’ without the conscious participation of the other, somehow feels like you’re using her gesture for your own cause in a very odd way, IMO; yet you’ve done this before here in the blog.
What do you feel about this phenomenon or am I imagining things? Are you justifying your externalized aggressions by imagining that others are being benefited by them by volunteering their personal actions as being ‘positive reactions to yours’ influenced by you?
Perhaps I am mistaken, though I do not feel that I am projecting… So, let the dice fall as they may.
What I have observed of myself is that so much of what I have ‘desperately written’ concerning the “dangerous and darknesses” about the Fellowship of Friends was first and foremost laying right under my own throne of self-righteousness
and romantic persuasions to find a scapegoat, a.k.a. The Fellowship of Friends to not notice my own “patina of shit”…
Right now I would say that this is the first place a spiritual-warrior ought to check out before getting out of his warm bed of shit, butt naked and strapping on 254 pounds of sterilized chain mail, leather and plate steel, not counting the zero-germs-ceremonial war tokens and charms…
There’s something dark and deep swirling under so many of my long ago postings and during the past five weeks that I met these ‘things’ (internally) I must admit, they’ve revealed things innerly about myself that transformed the the black-cathartic-urgencies of external displays like the twisted relationship I used to have with the Fellowship of Friends into something very different, untangled, integrated and sometimes even mirror-like:
I cannot exactly explain it here just now and certainly it has not delivered me to complacency, my story has been with Susan for nearly three weeks and my physical signature is across the ocean and in the mail…
Grandmother ayahuasca will tremendously help you Elena, I believe you’re ready for her embrace.
I hope my feelings expressed here are not taken as too rigid and intellectual, this is not my intent as I sit here and write… Sometimes the words, no matter one’s intent, will be read by the light of one’s projections
(because, by this ‘light’ we’ve been taught by an insane seamstress how to weave)
and not the lamplight from where it originated… So, I wish I could deliver this in person… Perhaps soon we will meet and I would even be willing to go to Brazil and be your fireside friend in the midst of things if you’re nervous about it.
_________________
L.t.y.a.
The next time you’re in Brazil check out an ayahuasca shaman, I believe you’d fair well in this ancient Grandmother’s lap… You can do a Google search for these facilitators; I would suggest a fully bona fide shaman and not some Californian initiate.
“I don’t practice what I preach because I’m not the kind of person I’m preaching to.” — “Bob” Dobbs
Dear Uno,
I specifically said “thank you for bringing YOUR SELF up to that place” to Laura instead of saying simply thank you. She put herself in that place. If I had just said thank you, I would be doing it as though she had done me a favor or done something because of what I have written. I do not know how she got there but I am very glad that she put herself in a place where I value being.
I am nevertheless not afraid Uno of taking credit for influencing people on this blog. And would not be surprised if I influenced her and hopefully others. If nothing of what we say has any effect on each other we might as well not write. Writing is limited enough to not have any effect. It is nevertheless one’s soul. Everything anyone says here has an effect on me. This is my immediate community right now. I project, mirror, reflect, everything happens here. I love, I hate, I cry, I laugh…sometimes. We have all changed here. You and I have much frictioned each other and it has been much to our benefit I believe. I consider you a friend and nevertheless am clear that we will continue to slice each other’s limits as much as we can. That is what brings us close to friendship. You are still standing above me, telling me what would be convenient for me but you are not really inviting me as a friend. I therefore am quickly tempted to decline your invitation. Friendship of course is a word I have between my eyebrows after being a friend, a useless, shit-head friend of the Fellowship of Friends, working for it, serving it, inspiring people to stay in it, pay more money, make more efforts.
My trust and credibility on people has been deeply disturbed by the many years in the Fellowship. I am not perfect in any way Uno, never was, and the Fellowship deepened many of the already broken areas of my being. But I am as honest and clear and direct as you’ll find, I have nothing to hide. Sculpt where you find necessary because if it is not, the knife will in turn sculpt you. The more I write, the less afraid I am of how much beauty is nevertheless, still inside of me. How much gratitude I can still bring out of my being. It is that beauty within each one of us, that I am here for. You may not appreciate it in us today but it will help others in time.
Third world people like me are more vulnerable to believing and trusting and completely devoting our self to an institution like the Fellowship. We start by thinking you are better just because you are American. I believed in it totally. I put all my eggs inside of it. You may call me stupid, I won’t deny my stupidity, but I will also not pretend that The Fellowship of Friends is any less responsible for hurting people indefinitely one way or another, a little or a great deal, deeply or superficially. Not just me. If ayahuasca is doing that to you, please don’t give me any, I do not wish to forget or forgive if that means allowing for it to continue doing what it does to other new or older students.
I have tasted states worth a million acids without any substance and am not tempted to take any substance to reach a third of such state. Nothing against them, trip on at your will. I have nothing against initiation rituals. Just being in Brazil is an initiation for people from the poles but you and I will have to fight each other a great deal more for I to stand beneath you or a Shaman. I did that for Robert and will never, ever do it again easily. Watch a wild horse, never will I allow anyone to harness me again. I’d rather die.
I never tried “ayahuasca”. But, what I’ve read from others it’s not a “high” like LSD or Mushrooms.
The experience seems to last from five minutes to twenty-five minutes. For some the ‘experience’ is absolute terror, for others the experience answers ‘life-changing’ questions from pre-birth to post death.
It’s not for parlor games nor for week-end recreation. It’s due respect because of its ‘sacred’ nature. It is the ultimate ‘sacrament’
The Fellowship of Friends and it’s rulers have never written one “experience report” in 38 years that could define a ‘sacrament’ unique to themselves.
Arthur,
The sacred nature of such plants is not alien to me, and the Lsd comparison was for the magnitude not for the quality.
As I said, I have nothing against them and yet what I most wish is to keep my feet on the ground and fly with my own wings. Walking is fine too. We had too many initiation rituals in my youth.
Elana,
sorry, more tube…
…and here is my music clip of the day
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=IEA7wcxjJvw
Thanks for that excellent Neil Young video, Lauralupa. And I hope everybody saw part one of ‘Bush’s War’ on Frontline (PBS) tonight. Part two will be on tomorrow night. Robert and the FOF sure aren’t the only deceivers out there.
Hi Laura
Sorry about the confusion….
I wasn’t saying that the US hadn’t been to the moon, the clip I posted only proves that at that particular time they were lying about it.
As you can see in the accidentally leaked clip….. they are in a low earth orbit trying to fake it so that it appears as if they are half way to the moon and then shortly after they are landing on the moon which they had just inadvertently shown themselves to be around three days away from.
I believe it was all about being first or at least giving the impression of it in order to dissuade any other super powers from messing with the US and also to justify the outrageously huge sums of money that they had been given.
JX
Ps. Contrary to the thought that we aren’t as technically advanced as we make out….. I believe the technology is at least fifty years in advance of what we are allowed to see.
Tesla’s research for example was confiscated and hidden while being developed further, until now where some of it is beginning to surface.
I consider the atmosphere in which Gurdjieff was trying to bring his message to the world.
Shakespeare said “All the world’s a stage” well there are some shady characters who have been directing the play…..
would t’were not so.
jx
Let it not be said that I was never one to labour a point!
“Those who wander are not necessarily lost”
Tolkien
and not all who launder are washed.
“Dont worry, be happy La da da da da da da la da da de da be happy”.
Despite it all jx
More Love than we know what to do with ~
___________________________________
_______________________________________
L.t.y.a.
Jack 123
I think you are onto it with the general dumbing down in terms of available technology. a second attempt to post this link… I hope it doesn’t go through twice or too far off sequence.
I should again beg you all forgive me for interrupting your momentum on this blog and putting pressure on the idea to surrender your selves more convincingly to legal actions against the Fellowship of Friends, as I have done in relation to the petition during the past week. Please forgive my imprudence.
I realize my concern with these institution goes way beyond the institution itself and there is no reason for anyone of you to be pressured on the decisions you make in relation to it, by me. Pressured, judged or criticized. Please continue ignoring my posts as you have often done in the past, I will continue exploring regardless, as I have also done in the past. May the public square continue to guarantee each other’s freedom of expression.
The deep concerns that I have, the multiple questions that life in the Fellowship of Friends has raised for me, do not have to be shared by you and my insistence on your doing so lies only in my own insecurity. If I could stop questioning I would but something beyond my self is not willing to and I am happy to indulge with whatever that is into further exploration. A lot of it for me is that having seen so clearly the damages that being brainwashed do to people in a cult, the importance of certain things in our social lives, normal lives, acquires a very different character.
To be brainwashed into living a life in which the only thing that matters to you is the well being of a cult leader and the phenomenon reduces itself to not having any real communication with other people, retrieving yourself from the well being of others and channeling each one of your efforts towards this one man’s life, should give us a view of what life could mean if it where proportionately distributed amongst all beings. Life, not just money. In a way it is like falling in love in its poorest expression. The wretched one ends up killing him/herself for the loved one. With cults or dictatorships it is very similar: the wretched ones end up sacrificing their lives for the cult leader or national leader. In all three instances it is as if the emotional centre were completely blinded by the uniqueness of the identification with the loved one, praised one, “submitted to” and in all three the tragedy is inevitable. What is really happening? How could it be avoided? How do the social activities that people share lead to it? What is so unhealthy about our personal and social lives that we are consistently falling into such patterns?
I will continue to explore publicly in case someone else has something of value they would like to bring. This is an exploration that I do not know where it will go but I trust it to be a worthwhile exploration in the long run. Thinking about these things is not sufficient. I need to write them out and have an audience to make sense of them, even if there is no response, it is important for me to visualize a reality confronting me out there. Then the thinking goes somewhere; finds solutions or at least acquires understandings.
The following is a summary of Constitutional rights that I find questionable in the Fellowship of Friends.
Summary of
Constitutional Rights, Powers and Duties
Personal Security (Life):
(2) Not to be injured or abused
Questions:
Are the men that have sex with Robert injured in their physical integrity? In their emotional integrity? In their integrity?
Does the fact that students are not allowed to participate in decisions within the community of the Fellowship of Friends, (because there IS a community no matter whether there is also what the Fellowship calls a School) gradually injure their natural condition of integrity with their community?
Is there such a thing as a natural condition of integrity with the rest of mankind or at least the rest of the people with which one lives? These invisible fibers of connectedness with others, the fact that human beings are interdependent of each other not only instinctively but emotionally and intellectually, what is the limit of any institution to ACT against such natural condition of participation, interdependency in which love and well being are developed amongst people?
What does it mean that the Fellowship of Friends never allowed for the second line of work to develop amongst its participants? NEVER ALLOWED AN INSTITUTIONAL SECOND LINE OF WORK TO FLOURISH? What does it mean in our lives to not be able to find institutionalized channels of mutual expression and communication?
What does it mean to have all the artistic activity controlled and conditioned by specific guidelines?
Are we injured only individually by such restrictions? Or is there such a thing as being socially injured? How can these ideas be connected to the processes of inner considering,
Negative emotions and second line of work. In other words is it only the individual’s individuality what is affected by serious restrictions on participation in the life of a community or is there such a thing as an individual’s sociability that is particularly affected by such restrictions? Together they would comprise an individual’s integrity. His personal and social or public life. These two aspects of everybody’s life comprise their integrity and a lot of the social abuse that is current today is probably due to the fact that both aspects are not taken with equally serious consideration.
How is a student in her very old age who has been in the Fellowship of Friends for over thirty years, injured by the teacher when she is told that she cannot come to dinners with him any more?
How did Robert Burton get to a place in which he cannot tolerate ugliness? Old people? Poverty? What is this pathology talking about? Does it just reflect the pathology of this particular community? Nation? Our time? The western world?
Pointers
The Pointers page is generally updated on Monday of each week.
If a concept revolving around a “me” arises, do not follow it, but have a look and expose that the “me” to whom it refers is not present. You are “non-conceptual, self-shining, ever-fresh presence-awareness, just this and nothing else. There is nothing other than this.”
You say, “So the only thing is to stay with the seeing and just be, and see the false as false.” Who? The only thing — for whom? Who is to stay with seeing, when you are nothing but the seeing itself? Knock out any residual reference to a separate “me” from the picture, and where is the problem and who has it? So your statement is really a subtle reference to the old ghost of the “me”. You are not a “me” with any task to do. You are non-conceptual existence-awareness itself now, and now, and now.
Awareness (or what you are) is. It is a fact. You cannot doubt that you are, that you are present. Being is. To try to know it, understand it, grasp it or express it is coming in at the mind level. It is a false game, because your very existence does not need to be known, understood or grasped. All of those activities are going on “downstream”, within the non-conceptual awareness that you are. Who is trying to know, understand, and grasp? Only the assumed, fictitious “I” itself.
If you are looking into appearances, you are missing the point altogether. Appearances come and go. That is the extent of it. You are not an appearance. You are to whom they appear. The real inquiry is when you look into your true nature.
Misery and grief are much different from basic organic pain and bodily suffering. When I speak of suffering, I am talking about conceptual suffering sustained in thought based on an erroneous conception of self. When that is taken care of, it is finished, regardless of whatever apparently good or bad experiences the body-mind may go through. There is no guarantee that the events the body and mind then experience will be “pleasant”. But the sense of personal identification with those events and the suffering generated by that identification are resolved.
Let your body and mind function freely without all the self-concern and identification. You did not create them, nor do you own them. You cannot even control the life or activities of a single cell or a single hair on your head! You are not breathing or beating the heart. You are not causing thoughts to appear. You have no input about the millions of transactions and chemical activities going on in the body and brain every second. Leave the body and mind be to do what they already know how to do much better than you do — live and function in the world. Without your meddling and false identification, they may have some chance of living out their days in relative peace and quiet without you interfering!
Question: What I seem to find is that in the space between thoughts all there is, is a generalized sense of awareness. But when one looks a little closer at that, or feels one’s way into it, there is somewhere in the middle of it all (at least this is how it feels) a sort of core sense of a ‘me’ that feels more like presence, a sort of observer if you like, that seems untouched by the things it is aware of. But this center is clearly not the David Williams that I always took it for. In fact, it does not seem to have any qualities at all, apart from this sense of being there and at the core. It does require more attention to notice it though. Does any of this make any sense?
John: This impersonal sense of being, presence or consciousness is the space in which thoughts (and all else) appear and disappear. It is also often spoken of as ‘consciousness’ or the ‘witness’. It is not a ‘me’ as such, meaning a limited, isolated person or entity. It is impersonal consciousness. At the level of appearances, this essential conscious presence is what you are. So in a sense, you could call it the the ‘relatively real’ you. Keep in mind that the presence of consciousness is not a conceptual ‘I’, with its sense of limitations, problems, doubts and personal suffering.
The limited, personal ‘me’ is born of the identification of this conscious presence with the body, mind and/or personality. This ego sense is a conceptual construct that arises from the identification of consciousness with objects (body, senses and mind). That ego notion is a false ‘I’ because it is a product of conceptualization (which is itself an appearance in the conscious presence). So a powerful initial step in recognizing your true identity is to see yourself not as the body-mind-personality, but as the space of consciousness or the witness of those things.
When you look finely into this, you will see that consciousness, or the witness, is relative. That is to say, it is an appearance also, a transient experience. Consciousness, or the witness, is not always present. It comes and goes in what I would call non-conceptual awareness, or the space that is prior to consciousness. You, as non-conceptual awareness, are aware of the fact of being conscious or being present. You are the basic space or pure awareness in which consciousness comes and goes. This sounds more complicated than it actually is, because we are only talking about your natural state or fundamental being. You recognize not only the coming and going of objects (sensations, perceptions, thought, feelings and so on) but also the consciousness in which they occur.
When you are not conscious (deep sleep, under anesthetics and so on), you still are. Later, you say, ‘I was unconsciousness and did not know anything’. Clearly, you existed and there was some basic cognizance, even of the fact of being unconscious. That in you now, which I call non-conceptual awareness, is what recognizes what you are calling the ‘core sense of me’ or ‘presence’. Keep in mind that that experience is being recognized by something, which is what you really are in the deepest sense. It is like looking into a microscope. Anything you can see in the field of vision is not you. What people often miss is that ‘consciousness’ or ‘presence’ is still an experience in the microscope. It is like the artificial light within the microscope that is illuminating the objects seen in it. That is why the sense of ‘consciousness’ or ‘presence’, still retains a subtle objective quality or sense of personalization. Pure, non-conceptual awareness is utterly outside of duality, has no qualities and zero ‘me’ sense. It cannot be grasped or experienced by the mind at all. It is simply what you are prior to any experience or conceptualization.
You are aware of objects, but you are also aware of being conscious. The state of being conscious will certainly pass, so it cannot be your most essential core reality. When consciousness goes, you will remain as you what you are and always have been. This is non-dual awareness that is not even aware of itself, since there is no second thing present ‘there’ to be aware of. That is one without a second, or pure non-duality.
John Wheeler
These are the daily cards of today and yesterday:
We are too much under feminine dominance to awaken
by ourselves, but Influence C are not. We are not
actually supposed to awaken, but Influence C
make it possible. They do not have to answer to
anyone – they are the law.
———————————————————————-
Six and four make you present.
———————————————————————–
“We are not actually supposed to awaken, but Influence C
make it possible. They do not have to answer to
anyone – they are the law.”
Love Robert.
Big words for a small mouth Robert, you are not the law you are the outlaw. Keep trying to confuse your devotees but don’t trust yourself that much.
Thank you WRBis a fake for bringing the current madness to the ground.
I have chosen the Following list of Constitutional rights interested in exploring what allows for the Fellowship of Friends to use and abuse people for thirty five years and to continue to do so.
Apparently the whole foundation of its freedom is based on the freedom of people to agree to contracts. Yet, the question is, at what point can people be charged for taking a contract below the level of one of the subjects constitutional rights and still be protected.
At what point, an individual or institution protected by these apparent consensus take advantage of the contractual agreement and situation to lower a citizens rights below his constitutional rights.
I will add a * Note where I am interested in pointing out some of the areas in which the Fellowship of Friends has violated constitutional rights of its participants.
There are probably many areas I’m forgetting, please add if you find suitable.
The questions are:
Is a Church a community within the State and can it lower the State’s Constitutional rights to use and abuse its participants?
Summary of
Constitutional Rights, Powers and Duties
Personal Security (Life):
(2) Not to be injured or abused. *Note
Personal Liberty:
(4) To assemble peaceably
*Note: Why are students not allowed to assemble peaceably by their own choice as if Robert Burton were a self title Monarch. What grants him the right to take this constitutional right away from the communities? Can a Church proclaim and condition such Constitutional rights?
(7) To communicate with the world.
*Note:
The Fellowship of Friends promotes the non communication with the world by asking people to acquire certain habits and attitudes towards the world such as:
Don’t read newspapers or watch television
Families are biological
Life people are the six billion dead people on the planet
Life people are sleep
We are luckier than life people
(8) To express or publish one’s opinions or those of others.-
*Note:
One’s opinions are literally annihilated, extinguished in the Fellowship of Friends throughout its entire life.
(9) To practice one’s religion
*Note:
The Fellowship of Friends presented itself as a Fourth Way School and decided it was not that after twenty or more years of practicing something very different to what had been presented to students looking for a Fourth Way School. This is FRAUD
(11) To enjoy privacy in all matters in which the rights of others are not violated
*Note: What privacy can be given to Robert Burton, Girard Haven or others within the Fellowship of Friends when their privacy is blatantly violating people’s rights.
Non-natural rights of personhood, created by social contract:
To enter into contracts, and thereby acquire contractual rights, to secure the means to exercise the above natural rights
*Note: What allows the Fellowship of Friends to impose an strictly authoritarian position taking every freedom of decision away from its participants as soon as they join behaving more like a Monarchy than a School? Schools teach, have lessons, educational sessions. Making people serve only, is not a School but a Monarchy. Where is the right of a Cult to behave like a Monarchy?
(6) Not to have one’s natural rights individually disabled except through due process of law
*Note:
No one can be banned from the State or the Nation without due process. What gave the Fellowship of Friends the right to ban students from its community without other people in the community knowing, agreeing or even being informed about it acting like a Monarchy and not a Community, a Church, or probably even a Cult?
In criminal prosecutions:
(18) Not to have a cruel or unusual punishment inflicted upon oneself.
*Note: What allows the Fellowship of Friends to ban or charge people outrageous sums of money, when they brake minor exercises like being charge 1500 dollars for smoking? Being thrown out of the School for questioning it? What gives the Fellowship of Friends the right to finish the contractual agreement between the parts without the consensus of the part?
Non-natural rights or citizenship, created by social contract:
(1) To enjoy equally the rights and privileges of citizenship as established by law.
*Note: What allows the Fellowship of Friends to diminish the rights and privileges of citizenship as established by law?
Constitutional duties of persons under U.S. or State jurisdiction:[7]
(1) To obey laws that are constitutional and applied within their proper jurisdiction and according to their intent.
*Note: What allows the Fellowship of Friends to disobey laws? If a State cannot act against its citizens, what allows a Cult to act against them?
(2) To comply with the terms of legal contracts to which one is a party.
*Note: The terms of legal contracts are immediately suppressed by the Fellowship of Friends as soon as one joins taking away from its participants any right to decide on the conditions. At what point is this recognized as harming the individuals involved?
(3) To tell the truth under oath.
*Note: The Fellowship of Friends did not tell its participants the truth.
Students were not told before joining that:
(1) Robert Burton is a depraved homosexual using young men like “objects of pleasure for a king” usable and discardable at his whim.
(2) That many of one’s Constitutional Rights would be totally violated by the Fellowship as a condition of participation
(3) That Robert Burton had had to settle many cases out of Court from other students, just as a child porn man would have to let others know that he is such. What allows for Robert Burton to be what he is without advising the students that join?
(4) That students pay to make effort not to receive instruction. The only instruction Robert Burton has given some students is to not talk for years.
(5) That in this School, the Teacher will not teach but order.
(6) That the second man in charge of the Fellowship of Friends is a porn addict although this is certainly known by Robert who has been informed of it.
(7) That one was to dissociate one’s self from other students to the point of not caring whether they were thrown out, serially raped, imported from other countries to sexually serve Robert Burton at the Galleria.
(8) That one was to be taught to never express dissent through the practice of the non expression of negative emotions. That the System of the Fourth Way would be used against one’s benefit to exploit and abuse one’s physical, emotional and intellectual resources throughout the time one spent in the institution.
(9) That one would have to spend one’s whole lifetime in the Fellowship of Friends to belong to it in one’s death.
(10) That the Teacher would make a practice of humiliating students consecutively behaving like a Monarch before his subjects and never like a human being before a human being.
(11) That the Teacher pees on his sexual mates in their sexual acts.
(12) That orgies in the Galleria are a common event.
(13) That students have to listen to Girard Haven and Robert Burton for years and years and nobody else.
(14) That a student cannot speak his mind in the Fellowship of Friends
(15) That funds go to buying visas for Robert Burton’s sex mates
(16) That students would never be allowed to ask why they were never told these things or why they happen.
Constitutional duties of citizens under U.S. or State jurisdiction:[7]
Restrictions of the powers of the State Governments:
(1) State constitutions and laws may not conflict with any provision of the U.S. Constitution or U.S. laws pursuant to it.
*Note: If a State’s constitution and laws may not conflict with any provision of the U.S. Constitution or U.S. laws, what allows the Fellowship of Friends to serially violate them?
(2) May not exercise powers not delegated to the State government by the State Constitution.
(4) May not grant a title of nobility.
*Note: If even a State cannot grant a title of nobility, what granted Robert Burton and the inner circle of the Fellowship of Friends to grant a status of king to Robert Burton and subject all its participants to conditions of a Monarchy instead of conditions of the Fourth Way School that it presented itself to be?
Duties of the State Governments:
(1) Must provide a republican form[12] of government to their citizens.
Must conduct honest and fair elections, by secret ballot.
*Note: A church is a very particular form of reunion in which many people are involved. It is a community. What allows a Church to organize itself in a way that is below Constitutional Standards?
Restrictions of the powers of all Governments:
(1) Shall not disable any natural or constitutional right without due process of law, and then only to the extent necessary to avoid infringing the rights of others.
(2) Shall not deny any person within its jurisdiction equal protection of the laws.
Shall not suspend habeas corpus, except in case of rebellion of invasion and the public safety may require it.
(8) Shall allow no slavery or involuntary servitude except as punishment for a crime of which the party shall have been duly convicted.
(9) Shall not deny or abridge the right to vote to any person on account of race, color, previous condition of servitude, sex, for failure to pay any tax, or on account of age if older than 18.
SOME ARGUABLY NEEDED NATIONAL POWERS:
(6) TO PROVIDE FOR THE PUNISHMENT OF ABUSES OF POWER BY ANY OFFICIAL, AGENT, OR EMPLOYEE OF, OR CONTRACTOR FOR, ANY INSTITUTION OF GOVERNMENT, AND SPECIFICALLY ANY VIOLATIONS OF THE CONSTITUTION AND LAWS PURSUANT THERETO.
(7) TO PROVIDE FOR THE PUNISHMENT OF ABUSES OF THE NATURAL RIGHTS OF PERSONS BY OTHER PERSONS, IN THE EVENT THAT THOSE ABUSES, IF THE OCCURRED ON STATE GROUND, ARE NOT PROSECUTED BY A STATE GOVERNMENT.
(8) TO DEFINE “DUE PROCESS” TO INCLUDE THE ELEMENTS GIVEN ABOVE WHICH ARE NOT NOW EXPLICIT IN THE U.S. CONSTITUTION.
NOTE ALSO THAT THE FUNDAMENTAL UNIT OF THE SOCIAL CONTRACT IS THE LOCAL COMMUNITY OR VILLAGE. THESE MAY AGGREGATE INTO A LARGER “STATE” OR “FEDERAL UNION”, BUT THE BASIS IS AGREEMENT AMONG THOSE WHO ARE IN DIRECT CONTACT WITH ONE ANOTHER.
To understand one’s time does not mean that it will not crucify you.
WHY ROBERT BURTON IS A fraud: Because he passed himself off a Fourth Way teacher and never studied the Ideas of Gurdjieff nor the teachings of the enneagram.
A principle idea of the Fourth Way is that as the Teacher rises the students rise. The only thing rising in the Fellowship of Friends is an articulate shammer.
Next week:
Eckhart Tolle, The new Earth, chapter 5, The pain Body.
Free watching 1:30mn (ca.) on :
http://www.oprah.com
The first 4 chapters are already available.
Enjoy!
A Must See!
133 You-me-us-they
If Tolle helps by all means squeeze the useful from the fluff, but remember we’ve been there and done that.
http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/2008/02/eckhart-tolle-is-shit-spewing-tool.html
133
You-me-us-they
re ted talk – excellent……. she is a remarkable woman, thanks.
jx
arthur 131 “…as the teacher rises…”
the student shrinks.
viagra must be a staple of that jaded old queen.
Cult Watch
10 Points to look out for in your group members
Obsession about group or the leader putting it above most other considerations.
Member’s individual identity becomes increasingly fused with the group, the leader and/or God followed by the group.Cloning of the group members or leader’s personal behaviors.
Emotional overreaction when the group or leader is criticized. Seen as evil persecution.
Belief that the group is “THE WAY” and they have a mission
Increasing dependency upon the group or leader for problem solving, explanations, definitions and analysis, and corresponding decline in real, independent thought.
Excessive hyperactivity and work for the group or leader, at the expense of private or family interests. Drifting away from family and old friends
Preparedness to blindly follow the group or leader and defend actions or statements without seeking independent verification.
Demonization of former members or members of alternative groups.
Desire to be praised for doing the right thing and fear of public rebuke
Unhealthy wish to be seen with or aligned publicly with the leader(s) of the group
Cult Leaders
5 Points to look out for in your group leader
Authoritarian approach and intolerance of questioning or criticism. Lies about and insults opponents.
Leader shows anxiety about the world, speaking of threats or conspiracies against the group.
Leader regularly accuses dissatisfied members who leave of having something wrong with them, having personality disorders or being transgressor and deserters.
Ex-members have similar stories of abuse and ill-treatment by the leader(s).
The group/leader is always right and followers never feel they can be “good enough”.
Cult Questionnaire
1) Does your group claim to be the
only “Way”?
YES NO
2) Are you told there is no alternative?
YES NO
3) Are you told leaving means certain degeneration, death or relapse?
YES NO
4) Do members see themselves as different from society, “special”, “chosen” “pioneers” or on a “mission”?
YES NO
5) Do you feel strong pressure to conform?
YES NO
6) Do dissenters face rebuke or isolation?
YES NO
7) Are there answers, clichés, quotes & slogans for everything?
YES NO
8) Do you have a social life outside the group?
YES NO
9) Do you spend huge amounts of time in group activities ?
YES NO
10) Are you expected to make regular confessions of private issues?
YES NO
11) Do you ask the group for advice on life decisions before acting?
YES NO
12) Are there many “clones” in the group?
YES NO
13) Do you have a personal mentor, sponsor or inspector?
YES NO
14) Does the group claim to be ultra democratic?
YES NO
15) Are there favorites, cliques and secret circles, hidden hierarchies?
YES NO
16) Are there rituals, initiations, proclamations, charters, ceremonies?
YES NO
17) Does the group offer certainty over uncertainty; absolute truths, black and white answers in the name of religion or science?
YES NO
18) Is a living or dead leader venerated?
YES NO
19) Do leaders flatter, cajole and rebuke to manipulate members for control, power, money and/or sex?
YES NO
20) Has the leader ever been the member of another political, social or religious sect?
YES NO
21) Are other groups ridiculed
or lied about?
YES NO
TOTAL
YES NO
NOTE ON QUESTIONNAIRE
A cult does not have to have all of the characteristics in the table or in the description alongside. However, if you have answered Yes to more than 30% of these questions, there is a very good chance that you are in a cult which can seriously damage your life and health.
I’ve just been looking at all the information that there is on the internet on cults and it is so surprising. I had never seen any of it. So many people know exactly what happens. We use to say, “You just discovered warm water” when someone was so stupidly naive. I would not have written a word on this blog if I had known so many people knew what happens.
Treatment
Cult experience could be described as
“rape of the personality”. Consequently, most cult members come to suffer from personality disorders like Dissociative Identity Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder and Multiple Personality Disorder. They can “float” back into their cult personalities as a result of external or internal stressors and triggers.
They may suffer nightmares, flashbacks, depersonalization, dissociation and out-of-body experiences and disorientation.
Recovery from cults takes time and patience, but can be successful. People need to find their true selves again and regain self-awareness, self-worth, self-confidence and a sense of perspective. Despite everything they experience, research shows that their true self remains suppressed, but existent, under the pseudo-personality superimposed by the cult. Healing and growth needs combined efforts and professional help. Sufferers may need to enlist the support of the following:
Medical help
Medication
Individual psychotherapy
Group psychotherapy
Exit counseling
Family therapy
Career counseling
#133: Wow! Amazing video! When we share it uplifts many. Thank you for this. I will be sure to spread it around to many myself.
The Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen guarantees freedom of religion, as long as religious activities do not infringe on public order in ways detrimental to society.
The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom was written in 1779 by Thomas Jefferson. It proclaimed:
“[N]o man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.”
In Section 1, Jefferson argues that the concept of compulsory religion is wrong for the following reasons:
· The imposition of anything on a human mind, which God made to be free, is hypocritical and wrong.
· “Whereas Almighty God hath created the mind free”, God never coerced anyone to follow him, and the imposition of a religion by government officials is impious.
· The coercion of a person to make contributions—especially monetary—to a religion he doesn’t support is tyrannical and creates favoritism among ministers.
·
Government involvement in matters tends to end in the restraint of religion.
· Civil rights do not depend on religious beliefs, and what a person thinks is no business of the government.
*Note. Interesting to observe that the last two sentences in which Jefferson separates churches from religion are meant to protect religions from the government but in his time he was not trying to protect citizens from Cults. The first four sentences would perfectly apply to how cults are hurting people today.
“[N]o man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.”
In Section 1, Jefferson argues that the concept of compulsory religion is wrong for the following reasons:
· The imposition of anything on a human mind, which God made to be free, is hypocritical and wrong.
· “Whereas Almighty God hath created the mind free”, God never coerced anyone to follow him, and the imposition of a religion by government officials is impious.
· The coercion of a person to make contributions—especially monetary—to a religion he doesn’t support is tyrannical and creates favoritism among ministers.
· Government involvement in matters tends to end in the restraint of religion.
· Civil rights do not depend on religious beliefs, and what a person thinks is no business of the government.
*Note: Interesting to observe that what Jefferson is doing in the last two paragraphs is protecting people from not being able to practice their religion. In his time he was not needing to protect people from Cults but religious beliefs from the Christian Church.
In the first four paragraphs he could just as well be protecting people from Cults today.
“We are too much under feminine dominance to awaken
by ourselves, but Influence C are not. We are not
actually supposed to awaken, but Influence C
make it possible. They do not have to answer to
anyone – they are the law.”
“Six and four make you present.”
*******************
Current followers are under too much of Robert’s dominance to think for themselves, but graduated students are not. Current followers are not supposed to awaken from their mental bondage, but talking to graduated students makes it possible. Graduated students do not have to answer to Robert, they are not under that law.
Sex and fornication make you a present.
134 brucelevy
133 You-me-us-they
If Tolle helps by all means squeeze the useful from the fluff, but remember we’ve been there and done that.
http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/2008/02/eckhart-tolle-is-shit-spewing-tool.html
Dear Bruce,
Thanks for the warning… We understand the concern!!!!!!
I am not “commited” to any “teacher/teaching”, I am enjoying too much my brand new freedom to discover, explore and without shame, come back to my “needs” to see “what fits”! No badge needed this days, unless you want one. It’s all out-there. I begin to wonder if the word “esotheric” has any meaning!
And yes, the money aspect could be a valid compass to navigate this sea of “teachings”…
Are they all building schools in Africa and India?????????
You know… to contribute to “education” as a key to…
145 You-me-us-they
“I am not “committed” to any “teacher/teaching”, I am enjoying too much my brand new freedom to discover, explore and without shame, come back to my “needs” to see “what fits”!
It doesn’t get better than that. Or maybe it does.
Hello again Bruce,
You wrote:
It doesn’t get better than that. Or maybe it does.
Which means?
Avaaz.org – The World in Action
Dear friends,
We reached our target! In just 7 days over 1 million of us have signed the petition
calling for human rights and dialogue in Tibet–the fastest growing internet
petition in history. As the crisis continues, it’s time to deliver our petition and
make sure Chinese President Hu Jintao hears our voices.
An International Day of Action has been declared for Monday, March 31st. On Monday,
thousands of people in cities across the world will march to Chinese embassies and
consulates, and stack hundreds of boxes containing our petition outside them. 1
million signatures makes a mountain of boxes–it will send a powerful global
message.
We have just 4 days left until the petition delivery. Could we get to 2 million
signatures in 4 days? We can do it–if every one of us recruits at least one more
friend to sign the petition by forwarding the email below.
————————————————–
Dear friends,
After decades of repression, the Tibetan people are crying out to the world for
change. The Olympic spotlight is now on China, and Tibetan leader the Dalai Lama is
calling to end all riots and violence through restraint and dialogue.
China’s hardliners are lashing out publicly at the Dalai Lama–but many Chinese
leaders believe dialogue is the best hope for stability in Tibet. The government is
right now considering a crucial choice between repression and dialogue that could
determine Tibet’s–and China’s–future.
We can affect this historic choice–President Hu Jintao values China’s reputation,
and he needs to hear from us that the ‘Made in China’ brand and the upcoming
Olympics in Beijing will succeed only if he chooses dialogue over the hardliners’
repression. An avalanche of global people power is moving to get his attention. In
just one week, over 1 million people have signed our petition, which will be
delivered in rallies at Chinese embassies worldwide on Monday–click below to join
the global outcry, and then forward this email to friends and family right away:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/tibet_end_the_violence/65.php/?cl=66741017
China’s economy is dependent on “Made in China” exports that we all buy, and the
government is keen to make the Olympics in Beijing this summer a celebration of a
new and respected China. China is also a sprawling, diverse country with much
brutality in its past, so it has good reasons to be concerned about stability–some
of Tibet’s rioters killed innocent people. But President Hu must recognize that the
greatest danger to Chinese stability and development today comes from hardliners who
advocate escalating repression, not from those Tibetans seeking dialogue and reform.
The Tibetan people have suffered quietly for decades. It is finally their moment to
speak–we must help them be heard.
With hope and respect,
Ricken, Pascal, Graziela, Iain, Paul, Galit, Milena, Ben and the whole Avaaz team
jx
Dont panic
its only Tom Waites below.
Nothing to sign or anything,
just entertainment.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=g0Puxfk5Huk
jx
Speaking of entertainment, after some of Elenas posts, memories of this movie float to mind… I’m a fan of Winslet and Kietel has done some interesting work… a pretty good film. If you haven’t seen it, Joe bob says; put it on yer netflix list:
http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/responsibility/lifton.htm
Ok, well that didn’t work as expected so I’ll try again; here’s the film referred to in the previous post:
http://www.cesnur.org/testi/holysmoke.htm
….and in reference to the Jay Lifton book-link in the previous post I would add: Relatively speaking, Robert Burton’s scam is small potatoes but the mentality is similar. Damage to the individual who gets tangled in these traps is devastating, whether on a large scale in the political arena, or on a small scale ala the organization called the fellowship of friends which is simply a front for feeding the arch-absurd-vain-glorious bottomless pit that is at it’s center…
In the beginning is the dream.
In a corner there is a small table
On it there is a stack of artistic beginnings,
Page-size, more or less, well more actually.
Next to them is a short red corrector pencil.
On some I confidently add my few red strokes,
Not too much, not too few.
All is truly well.
When I notice that the table is rather messy,
Something negative intrudes.
It appears to have been doubt
Followed by guilt and justification
And a dab of fear.
It is time to leave.
I walk away ignoring the chime of the cell-phone.
Upon reflection.
The dream took place in the main room of the Academy.
The paintings or drawings were beautiful.
Upon awakening, no pun intended, the room I was in looked magical.
The reddish glow of the street light projected flowery shadows on the wall.
Yet, those designs had their origins in black security bars.
Who would have thunk! It wasn`t the job of the bars to add beauty to the room.
Yet, from my point of view, through my rose-colored glasses maybe one might say, ………!
Year after year I stood in awe observing the Canada geese in Shakespeare Meadow
Going through their exercises with all manner of consternation, tribulation, dedication and as my
Friend Checo would say, compadration. One thing which could be noticed was that all the geese without exception went through the same drill, day after day. Another is that in the end, when the snow clouds rushed by high overhead, some left for warmer climes and some stayed for the winter.
All was truly well. There was no blaming, bad-mouthing, gestucating, obfuscating, none of that shit. I am a qualified witness and at the time knew I was without knowing what I was witnessing.
Transmuted stuff, lead, gold, call it whatever you want, I wanted to let it go and let you stick it wherever you wanted. But, I know there is no room in my friggin head for any more head lead. And the gold? What about the gold? Well, I paid for it with my company pension, my social security, my sunstroke, my hoeing, and so on and on and on. So, I am keeping the gold. Amen
Fatboy:
If you are still on the fence and reading this blog…
c- influence has a message for you:
http://www.runfatboyrunmovie.com/
About something being “easier said than done.”
That’s a good thing. If it’s easier to say it than do it, then say it.
That’s usually the first step — saying it. Say it out loud.
Thanks 133 Ymasthey, for the Ted talk, I learnt much.
And Whalerider for “Graduated students do not have to answer to Robert, they are not under that law.
Sex and fornication make you a present.”
And Ton for Lifton’s list which is even more poignant.
Jack and the rest of you for your offerings.
147 You-me-us-they
I meant that it sounds like a pretty good place to be…to grow.
“Or maybe it does.”… that’s just facetiousness, you can ignore that part.
ltu
Photographs of the Teacher:
“For whoever makes himself prominent will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be set high.” –Luke 14:11
Though it scrapes and bows from time to time, a chameleon of social expectation and convention, it does so only with the full anticipation that others recognize and admire the display of humility that is otherwise incompatible with its remorseless behavior. Suddenly the scales fall away and you notice that it is in fact a subhuman entity, instead of feelings it carefully watches and learns from others in order to feign some semblance of humanity while relentlessly going about pursuing its vainglorious plans of self-exultation. Each person that falls into view is studied both for hints that might be incorporated into the repertoire of mannerisms that form some semblance of normal emotional activity and for indications of human weakness that can be exploited. Only its victims ever really witness the beast unclothed of all pretense when they experience the full impact of a thing run exclusively under the power of obsession.
31 whalerider
Wow, Elena, your poem was powerful! It speaks to the shame that kept me silent for so many years. By exposing a rape, often the victim has to endure those who want to avoid the ugly truth and blame them, absolving the perpetrator. It’s not a pretty side of human nature.
By paying attention to the way you feel, and then choosing thoughts that feel the very best, you are managing your own vibration, which means you are controlling your own point of attraction — which means you are creating your own reality. It’s such a wonderful thing to realize that you can create your own reality without sticking your nose in everybody else’s, and that the less attention you give to everybody else’s reality, the purer your vibration is going to be — and the more you are going to be pleased with what comes to you. Abraham
The previous paragraph was borrowed from the Greater Fellowship forum Abraham. Not THAT Abraham!
It seems to me that there is a renewed tendency in this discussion group to move forward and upward to joy. Maybe it`s all the you-tubing, maybe not, but whatever it is doesn`t matter. What matters, imo, is that those who are suffering begin to feel better and throw away their shackles, cut the chain of pain and begin to enjoy life, to follow their bliss as someone once said.
If punching the punching bag and firing rubber bullets at effigies make someone feel better, then by all means fire away. The rest will then likely happen by itself. Could someone revert to more severe pain having tasted a better soup? I hope not.
Î forgot that I couldn`t edit, it`s been that long. Oh well sorry, I would have done more clarification and tried to make 158 sound less like pontification, which it isn`t. Cheers!
157 hardtruth
That is one of the most revealing and powerful pictures of that beast within Robert Burton that has been written here. Wow!!, and thank you.
Kid Shelleen:
Your office phone doesn’t seem to work — at least the number I have. Please give me a call.
Your friend,
Benny Lava
halftruth, I just like saying yer “name” :~)
speaking of pontification, thanks renald,
here’s to continuing a “move forward and upward to joy”
shadows fall behind
cheers all
157 hardtruth
p.s. – thanks for the Nina Simone too
133 You-me-us-they
Thanks for that link to the TED video. I think it speaks to the fallacy at the heart of the Fourth Way in general and the Fellowship of Friends in particular. The idea that we can “work” to create a discrete, individual soul or identity that is somehow separate from the surrounding universe strikes me these days as precisely the wrong way to go. For most of us, in reality, the “system” is an exercise in going nowhere, but if it does go anywhere, it’s deeper into the illusion of separateness. Just watching Robert’s descent into ever more complexity and away from simplicity should be sufficient evidence of the madness at play. But hey, it’s a free country (for now).
Those ridiculous videos of the meetings (which seem to have been removed) are so absurd, I can’t believe anybody can sit there with a straight face. No wonder Robert banned laughter.
Ya james agreed that was an awesome bit of writing from Halftruth… recent posts have reminded me of something, it seems to have triggered a wave of nostalgia, hence the jethro tull. nina simone it ain’t… but it’s….
living in the past
remembering
not to get stuck
life’s a long song
I bring good tidings… this lovely group of assorted losers, rejects and misfits, thanks to our Esoteric Sheik has apparently ascended to spiritual hipness after all!
All kidding aside, I was reading an interesting essay over at reality sandwich (yet again… what can I say?) that relates to the new forms of spiritual communication being developed in this blog as well as in countless other online and offline communities.
The article is really long, so as usual I am reposting here just a few selected excerpts (and it’s still quite long, I know!) Hopefully they make enough sense even out of context.
“There is overwhelming evidence that the evolution of consciousness is marching on, moving from collective living, where the individual was totally embedded in the life patterns of the collective; through a gradual, often painful, process of individuation, with the emphasis on the will and sovereignty of the individual; to what is emerging in our time: a conscious return to collectivism where individuated, or self-actualised, individuals voluntarily – and temporarily – pool their consciousness in a search for the elusive collective intelligence which can help us to overcome the stupendous challenges now facing us as a species as a consequence of how our developmental trajectory has manifested on the physical plane thus far … So human evolution has something to do with human consciousness awakening first to itself, then to its own evolution and to a recognition and finally an embodied experience of the ways in which we are organically part of a larger whole. As we enter this new stage of individual/collective awakening, individuals are being increasingly called to practice the new life-form composed of groups of individuated individuals merging their collective intelligence.”
…If we accept the new ontological and epistemological convictions that there are no absolute reference points or frameworks, no objective reality out there on their own, can we still accept fixed cosmologies and religions? If we accept that knowing is a matter of co-creation with other humans, holding different frameworks, and that approaching truth is a matter of confronting those differences in frameworks, and how they illuminate realities in different ways, can we still accept fixed methodologies and pathways, leading to inevitable conclusions about the truth? Or would we expect co-created truth to be open-ended? If we want to act and live according to the peer principle of equal worth of all persons, can we accept the deep-seated rankism that is part and parcel of traditional approaches to religion? The questions are suggesting the answer, and the answer is that in all likelihood, the forms of spirituality that we are striving will have the open and free, participatory, and commons-oriented aspects which the emerging p2p forms of consciousness are desiring to appear in the world.
An open and free approach to spirituality would not likely accept proprietary approaches to spiritual knowledge. It would expect that the code and texts are freely approachable, even modifiable. It will not accept the copyright protections of spiritual texts, nor their unavailability. The pathways to spiritual experiencing would not be hidden from sight, but publicly available. The methodologies would be available for trial and experimentation.
A participatory approach would mean that everyone would be invited to participate in the spiritual search, without a priori selection, and that the threshold of such participation would be kept as low as possible. Appropriate methodologies would be available for different levels of experience.
A commons-oriented approach would lead to co-created knowledge to be available in a common pool, for others to build on and to be confronted with.
…Equipotentiality suggests that we should not judge a person according to one purported essence, say, as a spiritual master or an enlightened being, but as a wide mixture of different skills and abilities, none of which by itself elevates that person to a higher human status. Rather, the skill of any social system is to draw out the best out of each individual, so that he can engage his skills and passion to a task of his own choosing. One of the possible interpretations of this principle is that enlightenment or spiritual mastery is just one particular skill, a particular technique of consciousness. It is important, it deserves respect, others can learn from it.
However, just as a great sportsperson or great artist is not necessarily overall a better human being, neither is a spiritual master, as the history of the last few decades has elaborately shown. Furthermore, guidance from such a master must be specific, an invitation for practice and experience, a witnessing on his part, but not in any way a fixed authority on the lives of any followers. Individuals are free to explore this guidance, but the individual, and the communities, are still in charge of building collective spiritual freedom, without a priori fixed path. The corollary of self-selection and communal validation are also clear. No spiritual path can be imposed, the individual freely chooses the particular injunctions he wants to follow or experiment with. Nor are individuals or communities bound to any particular tradition, though they can still choose to work with such a particular framework.
In a globalized context, conscious of the various frameworks available, the search for spiritual truth may entail aspects of a contributory spirituality, in which the individual, informed about the specific frameworks, can choose between a wide variety of psycho-technologies, in a particular quest to find which combination of practices and insights is the most befitting of his needs and capabilities. As Jorge Ferrer has already argued, not only is there no single path, not only are there no multiple paths to a similar goal or achievement, but the goal itself is the fruit of the co-creation of searchers and their communities. It would seem that it is precisely in such a way, that individuals have approached their quest in the last few decades, particularly those termed cultural creatives by the sociologist Paul Ray. In fact when there is no coercion, this seems the natural way that people choose to approach their spiritual life. The principle of communal validation suggests that persons may unite in groups or peer circles, decide in common on certain exploratory paths, and exchange their experiences with it.
Finally, holoptism suggests a new openness in terms of the contents and practices of the different systems, as well as their goals, and it suggests that esoteric wil no longer mean secrecy or unavailibity, only different equipotential capacities to reach certain levels of experience and skill. Again, this does not seem to be farfetched given that most esoteric material is now available either in print or online.
….”Ferrer argues that we must realize that our goal can never be simply the recovery or reproduction of some past sense of the sacred, for ‘we cannot ignore that most religious traditions are still beset not only by intolerant exclusivist and absolutist tendencies, but also by patriarchy, authoritarianism, dogmatism, conservatism, transcendentalism, body-denial, sexual repression, and hierarchical institutions.’ Put simply, the contemplative traditions of the past have too often functioned as elaborate and sacralized techniques for dissociating consciousness.
“Once again, I think this is exactly where we need to be, with a privileging of the ethical over the mystical and an insistence on human wholeness as human holiness. I would only want to further radicalize Ferrer’s vision by underscoring how hermeneutical it is, that is, how it functions as a creative re-visioning and reforming of the past instead of as a simple reproduction of or fundamentalist fantasy about some nonexistent golden age. Put differently, in my view, there is no shared Ocean of Emancipation in the history of religions. Indeed, from many of our own modern perspectives, the waters of the past are barely potable, as what most of the contemplative traditions have meant by ’emancipation’ or ‘salvation’ is not at all what we would like to imply by those terms today. It is, after all, frightfully easy to be emancipated from ‘the world’ or to become one with a deity or ontological absolute and leave all the world’s grossly unjust social structures and practices (racism, gender injustice, homophobia, religious bigotry, colonialism, caste, class division, environmental degradation, etc.) comfortably in place.”
From this important critique by Kripal, I would like to add an important conclusion. That the shift towards relational and participatory spirituality also necessarily have a “negative” moment, i.e. a phase of critique against any and all forms of spiritual authoritarianism.
…Indeed, human agents never just “relate” in the abstract, agents always relate around an object, in a concrete fashion. Swarming insects do not seem to have such an object, they just follow instructions and signals, without a view of the whole, but mammals do. For example, bands of wolves congregate around the object of the prey. It is the object that energizes the relationships, that mobilizes the action. Humans can have more abstract objects, that are located in a temporal future, as an object of desire. We perform the object in our minds, and activate ourselves to realize them individually or collectively. P2P projects organize themselves around such common project, and my own Peer to Peer theory is an attempt to create an object that can inspire social and political change.
In summary, for a comprehensive view of the collective, it is now customary to distinguish (1) the totality of relations; (2) the field in which these relations operate, up to the macro-field of society itself, which establishes the “protocol” of what is possible and not; (3) the object of the relationship (“object-oriented sociality”), i.e. the pre-formed ideal which inspires the common action.
In conclusion, this turn to the collective that the emergence of peer to peer represent does not in any way present a loss of individuality, even of individualism. Rather it “transcends and includes” individualism and collectivism in a new unity, which I would like to call “cooperative individualism.” The cooperativity is not necessarily intentional (i.e. the result of conscious altruism), but constitutive of our being, and the best applications of P2P, are based on this idea. Similar to Adam Smith’s theory of the invisible hand, the best designed collaborative systems take advantage of the self-interest of the users, turning it into collective benefit.
…In any case, the balance is again moving towards the collective. But if the new forms of collective recognize individuality and even individualism, they are not merely individualist in nature, meaning: they are not collective individuals, rather, the new collective expresses itself in the creation of the common. The collective is no longer the local “wholistic” and “oppressive” community, and it is no longer the contractually based society with its institutions, now also seen as oppressive. The new commons is not a unified and transcendent collective individual, but a collection of large number of singular projects, constituting a multitude.
This whole change in ontology and epistemology, in ways of feeling and being, in ways of knowing and apprehending the world, has been prefigured amongst social scientists and philosophers, including the hard sciences such as physics and biology. An important change has been the overthrow of the Cartesian subject-object split. No longer is the “individual self” looking at the world as an object. Since postmodernity has established that the individual is composed and traversed by numerous social fields (of power, of the unconscious, class relations, gender, etc…), and since he/she has become aware of this, the subject is now seen (after his death as an “essence” and a historical construct had been announced by Foucault), as a perpetual process of becoming (“subjectivation”). His knowing is now subjective-objective and truth-building has been transformed from objective and mono-perspectival to multiperspectival.
This individual operates not in a dead space of objects, but in a network of flows. Space is dynamical, perpetually co-created by the actions of the individuals and in peer to peer processes, where the digital noosphere is an extraordinary medium for generating signals emanating from this dynamical space. The individuals in peer groups, which are thus not ‘transcendent’ collective individuals, are in a constant adaptive behavior. Thus peer to peer is global from the start, it is incorporated in its practice. It is an expression not of globalization, the worldwide system of domination, but of globality, the growing interconnected of human relationships.
Peer to peer is to be regarded as a new form of social exchange, creating its equivalent form of subjectivation, and itself reflecting the new forms of subjectivation. P2P, interpreted here as a positive and normative ethos that is implicit in the logic of its practice, though it rejects the ideology of individualism, does not in any way endanger the achievements of the modern individual, in terms of the desire and achievement of personal autonomy, authenticity, etc. It is no transcendent power that demands sacrifice of self: It is fully immanent, participants are not given anything up, and unlike the contractual vision, which is fictitious in any case, the participation is entirely voluntary. Thus what it reflects is an expansion of ethics: the desire to create and share, to produce something useful. The individual who joins a P2P project, puts his being, unadulterated, in the service of the construction of a common resource. Implicit is not just a concern for the narrow group, not just intersubjective relations, but the whole social field surrounding it.
How does a successful P2P project operate, in terms of reconciling the individual and the collective?
Imagine a successful meeting of minds: individual ideas are confronted, but also changed in the process, through the free association born of the encounter with other intelligences. Thus eventually a common idea emerges, that has integrated the differences, not subsumed them. The participants do not feel they have made concessions or compromises, but feel that the new common integration is based on their ideas. There has been no minority, which has succumbed to the majority. There has been no “representation,” or loss of difference. Such is the true process of peer to peer.
An important philosophical change has been the abandonment of the unifying universalism of the Enlightenment project. Universality was to be attained by striving to unity, by the transcendence of representation of political power. But this unity meant sacrifice of difference. Today, the new epistemological and ontological requirement that P2P reflects, is not abstract universalism, but the concrete universality of a commons which has not sacrificed difference. This is the truth that the new concept of multitude, developed by Toni Negri and inspired by Spinoza, expresses. P2P is not predicated on representation and unity, but of the full expression of difference.
These insights and developments are being expressed by contemporary spiritual practicioners as well. What kind of changes can we expect in the expression of spirituality?…….
Commons-oriented approaches
Note for example how John Heron also specifically integrates the p2p concept of the commons in his spiritual world view, through his recognition of and call for a Global Integral-Spiritual Commons: “By “integral spirituality” I mean, at the very least, a spirituality that is manifest in full embodiment, in relationship and interconnectedness, in mutuality and sharing, in autonomous creativity, and in full access to multidimensional meanings. By “global commons” I mean a worldwide space to which anyone on the planet has rights of access, and which is a worldwide forum for communication between everyone who claims their rights of access. The cyberspace of the internet is such a global commons. Cyberspace itself is fully embodied in the dynamic relation between humans and the planetary network of computers; it is a space generated by interconnectedness; it is premised on the full and unfettered mutuality of sharing information; it is an unlimited space for the expression of autonomous creativity; and its provides access for all to a vast range of multidimensional meanings. It is in this sense that I call the internet, i.e. cyberspace, a global integral-spiritual commons. It has the properties and potential of an integral-spiritual space. The fact that such a space can be used for vulgar or corrupt purposes does not, in my view, detract from its inherent integral-spiritual status, in the same way that the spiritual status of free will is not in any way undermined by the abuse of free will. It is precisely that continuity of status, whatever we do with the gift, that sooner or later calls us to a liberating and creative use of the gift.”
…Working the We field through peer circles
Mushin is one of the spiritual teachers who has expressed these insights spiritually, first of all by changing his own behavior from ‘teacher’ to spiritual facilitor and mentor. Here is how he expresses the discovery of the we, as part of the story of his conversion towards a leader concerned with helping others achieve autonomy-within-cooperation :
“So it is very beautiful and makes deep sense that obviously this space is not empty at all; it is flowing over with the We that embraces all. And as I said, the We is making itself felt, understood, intuited all over this globe and is manifesting in many different ways – as people wanting to cooperate, to collaborate, to be in community and communion, seeing that the time of heroes (central suns) is definitely over, the time for the saviors and lone leaders that could set things right again. The world and its problems have become so complex that we can only hope to find adequate answers in ‘circles’ of very different people where we can meet eye to eye and heart to heart – in a sort of collective leadership maybe. And this is underfoot already on a worldwide scale. The place here would not suffice to mention all the initiatives that are going on all over the world. Yet, this is one aspect of We manifesting.
Another aspect is the sense of spiritual or soul families or clans finding each other again across countries and continents. It is as if we have chosen ages ago to come together in this critical time on the planet to be midwives to what is wanting to emerge. Whatever may be the case we do recognize each other and there is an immediate connection beyond words, even beyond understanding; all we do is accept it.
A third aspect manifests through what has been called the Circle Being, manifesting as a higher order of being together with an incredible coherence that draws in the individuals participating. This certainly is We, being highly coherent.”
…”In Bohmian dialogue, one strives to be mindful of the movement of thought in several dimensions simultaneously: as the subjective thoughts and ‘felts’ that arise at any given moment; as the objective manifestation of sensations and contractions in the body; as the gestures and body language of members in the group; as the particular content of the discussion at hand; as the patterns of interaction and conflict that emerge over time (not only in one session, but over multiple sessions); as the conventions and rules which may inhibit the flow of dialogue; and so on.
“In the beginning, this is a rather difficult practice. But one approaches it simply: starting from a position of open listening and letting dialogue unfold in the space of awareness that the group establishes. Certain deeply held beliefs, presuppositions, ‘unwritten rules,’ fears and insecurities, and so on, will gradually make themselves manifest through this process, as perceptions of individuals in the group fail to line up and various conflicts emerge. These implicit beliefs, these forms of psychological and cultural conditioning, are not readily apparent in the practice of solitary meditation; but in Bohmian contemplative dialogue, particularly if it is sustained over a period of days or weeks, these patterns will emerge over time in the intersubjective field and can be cognized and processed by the group as a whole (or privately by individuals after a particular session has concluded).”
Bohm contends (and I can confirm) that sustained practice of this form of dialogue, particularly if certain ground rules are followed, can lead not only to the emergence of insight for individuals in the group, but to a sort of collective intelligence that manifests in between participants – a creative flow of awareness and inspiration that can guide the group to deeper and deeper levels of understanding and communion. The unconscious conventions and habits of thought, the conditioning which usually drives our reactions and our social negotiations, opens onto a living field of responsive intelligence – in Bohm’s terms, the birth of group intelligence out of the largely unconscious field of “group think.”
…Chaos religions on the internet
Remi Sussan, the author of a book on posthuman utopias, is also very knowledgeable about the new forms that religion is taking in and through the internet, and notes the following:
“During the last two decades has appeared a new trend of occultism that, in many ways reverse common characteristics of the traditional esoteric doctrines. Occultism emphasizes secrecy, the new occultists will do everything in the open; occultism is based on hierarchical systems, grades; new occultists will laugh at hierarchy, prefer disorder to order; occultism claim to be a wisdom coming from an distant past, a theologia prisca; new occultists don’t hesitate to assume their modernity, and blur the frontier between religion and imagination by using images coming from the pop culture: Mr Spock, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, or even bugs Bunny.
“Known under the various names of ‘chaos magick,’ pop magic, postmodern magic, this current is in fact the deconstruction of traditional esoteric thought. It is also one of the first egalitarian, non-authoritarian spiritual movements. The emphasis put on ‘chaos’ in this movement tends to prove that it is not only hierarchical spirituality that is questioned, but really the very notion of ‘order.'”
One of the latest manifestations of that trend is the Ultraculture movement, promoted by Jason Louv of Disinfo.com:
It is “a cultural movement based around the mass interest in magic and the concordent need to apply it to improving our thoroughly disturbed world.
“Ultraculture specifically means two things:
“It is the name of a social networking system. Specifically, the idea behind ‘Ultraculture’ is to apply the Indymedia model to magic, and establish open city-based “scenes” based around mailing lists and web pages where people can link up with people in their area interested in magic, esotericism, consciousness evolution, etc., discuss it in terms of how it applies to both their own experiences and their communities, and then determine their level of activity and involvement within that growing network.
“Ultraculture is NOT another magical order, group or hierarchy, nor is it just another discussion forum; in this capacity it is only a social connecting system on both a local and global scale. Occultism has traditionally been the pursuit of the ‘Outsider’ figure; Ultraculture then aims to situate magic more firmly as an activity of communities.”
All this and more from:
http://www.realitysandwich.com/next_buddha_will_be_a_collective
Ton 151 – you might find page 6 # 272 interesting in connection with that movie.
Temporary Dive
I fell down in that hole again
I am a lump of gelly I am a dead fish
I look up at the blue sky
And I know that it´s just a temporary dive
Sometimes we tip toe
Sometimes we run
Sometimes we wander while looking at the sun
Sometimes we tip toe
Sometimes we run
Sometimes we wander while looking at the sun
Sitting on the cold dirt floor
I want to finish
the counting of days on the walls
I build a ladder from broken wish bones
And square-shaped stones
That my friends threw down in the hole
Sometimes we tip toe
Sometimes we run
Sometimes we wander while looking at the sun
Sometimes we tip toe
Sometimes we run
Sometimes we wander while looking at the sun
And even though I read maps to avoid them
They change location every day
And somehow all of my traces
they vanish
But shall one stay put
Shall one lay low
shall one not go
just to avoid this hole?
Ane Brun
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eUSKrZ6jfIw&feature=related
167 Joe: bares, or is it bears reposting?
Shelley Mitchell Says:
April 16, 2007 at 7:33 pm
Sheik, first of all, thank you for your time and guidance on this forum. I am an ex fof member. If anyone reading this would like to see a brilliant treatment of the controversy at the root of this bittersweet blog I suggest you see Harvey Keitel’s performance in Jane Campion’s film HOLY SMOKE (with Kate Winslet). I coached Mr. Keitel for his role. Jane Campion used material directly from true stories I shared about the fof. I joined the Followship in 1975 where Girard was center director and was ‘kicked out’ with a letter signed by him 17 years later. During my tour of duty I was married for a few years to Robert’s #1 gate keeper, organizer and personal assistant. I was also Robert’s personal chauffeur, ‘hostess’ and point person in New York City for about 5 years in the late 70s. I often wondered why there was a tube of KY jelly next to the toothpaste in his hotel bathroom. To say I was naïve would be generous. It took me 10 years to leave after I DID find out why the KY was there. WHY did it take so long to exit? I was nearly 30 years old and had passed the bulk of my 20s in the fof. I burnt my bridges with anyone I knew in my chosen profession and I felt unequipped to confront the superficiality and crassness of popular culture. My days continued to be peppered with C-influence (synchronicities) despite the sense of personal betrayal and manipulation I felt, not only by Robert but even more by most of the people he authorized to speak on his behalf. (Many of whom, shockingly, were skeptical regarding C-Influence!) During the mid 1980s I tried to have the conversation now flowing in this forum and was highly criticized and eventually rejected for it. I lived (hid out) in Europe and despite my personal doubts about the fof became the center director of a small city in Northern Italy where there were only two students… my husband being the other one. If I do say so myself, I think we directed each other with great aplomb. I started to get in trouble once some young Italian people actually started joining and visiting (or immigrating to) Renaissance. Before they left for America I warned them that they might get hit on by the teacher. I worded it more delicately, of course, but it wasn’t long before I got a call from Guinevere and then Robert himself asking me not to speak about his personal life to anyone, ever again… or else! I told both Guinevere and Robert that for my own personal ethic I needed to be honest with these young international travelers about the possibility that they might be seduced. Notwithstanding the fact that I found the 4th way work to be a driving force in my own search for meaning, I also confessed to these young Italians my own confusion at being a spokesperson for an organization whose leadership I questioned. During one long distance (Oregon House-Italy) conversation with Robert, I told him that I had nothing against homosexuality, that I actually thought it was cool. I said something to the effect that he should take away the exercise against it and accept himself as he was. He told me that he was not a homosexual but that he actually became a woman when he was with these young men, and that the sex was part of his, and their, awakening. I held my ground and said that, for my own personal reasons, I would continue to warn young travelers about what they might encounter upon meeting him. I added that it was up to their own discretion what to do. I also told Robert that I loved him (which is true) and that there were no words to express how much I valued what I had learned through his efforts as a teacher. At the end of this 20 minute conversation he asked me to pass the phone to my husband. Robert apologized to him for any pain he may have caused and asked him to pass the phone back to me. Robert told me what he had just said to my husband. I think I thanked him and put the phone down. I know I was shaking. My husband was crying. We both sat very still and silent for a long, long time.
Renald:
“By paying attention to the way you feel, and then choosing thoughts that feel the very best…”
Thank you for your kind thoughts. Please feel free to write any amount you want. Free speech means you get to get up on a soapbox and have your say, and as long as you speak truthfully, no one should care. Let those with shorter attention spans scroll on by if they choose.
Self-censorship is part of cult behavior.
I am so thankful you wrote what you did. It helped to clarify some issues for me. I am going to repeat an old refrain…please don’t feel that I am attacking you. This is how I respond to what I hear you are saying.
Yes, it was my shameful thoughts that lead to my shameful feelings that kept me silent for all these years. Without the shame, I can no longer be silent. So for right now the thoughts that make me feel the best are the ones that think that by writing down my feelings about FOF experience on this blog, members of the Fellowship of Followers might choose to take their destinies into their own hands and kiss the fucker goodbye.
This is part of moving on for me, toward a better world for my kids. It feels good doing something for the benefit of my community.
If we do not confront evil behavior it will flourish.
>>>>><<<<<
I do have a post-FOF life story (which you may know, includes being recently divorced by my wife with the tumor on her adrenal gland…) that can contribute to the shaman thread, too.
As part of my healing about two years post-FOF, I went to a local westerner practicing shamanism to work though some issues about my father that made me vulnerable to cult indoctrination. With the help of drumming and eye patches, I used my creative imagination to journey into the upper and lower worlds for insight and inspiration. It worked for a time and was enjoyable.
Although I was unable to visualize a power animal, the shaman journeyed for me, and through the top of my head, ritually bestowed upon me my power animal, the dolphin, the rescuer of drowning sailors. It was fun and exciting to do! And it helped give my life meaning, passion and direction, eventually inspiring me to do what I do and say what I say. I paid per session and that was that. I didn’t have to join anything.
Without going into too much revealing detail, about ten years post-FOF I put myself in the facilitating-people-making-positive-life-change business and have been in practice since then. I could argue that I am a modern-day shaman, but do not employ traditional-indigenous methods.
So what do people go to a shaman for? IMO…experiential learning. You already have enough “information or knowledge”, right? What’s there to know really? The first thing is: there is no hidden knowledge! Be present to this: it’s an amazing world we live in. You have an amazing body and your own plug into what Jung called the great “collective unconscious” of symbolic language and spiritual knowledge. You can make use of synchronicity by focusing on the positive messages, as James Redfield points out, and change the world by changing yourself. So be nice to people. Take care of yourself. Take care of your family or loved ones. Don’t hurt yourself or others. Take care of the planet. Be present. You know already that.
But some, including myself in years past, need to be part of a group of like-minded others or a little trip in themselves, out of themselves or off the planet into the cosmos to hammer that message through.
To graft that or any knowledge or message to part of ones being, one needs either sustained formal efforts over time and/or for quicker results, one can generate an altered state through drugs, chanting, (Bach after hard manual labor and four hours of sleep), breathing, drumming, dancing, some form of deprivation or what have you, (even fucking for the less scrupulous) and voila.
If you are not up for the task yourself, the traditional shaman will go into an altered state “for” you. Of course watching this strange cat do the stuff he does to go into an altered state will indeed put you into an altered state as well, and so there you have it, experiential learning. The shaman just acts out the message. The symbols we all share.
It helps to speak their language so you can be assured that the things they are saying as they chant are the messages you want to give yourself (or you take charge and write your own.) Chanting works well to provide guidance or hammer a message home in an altered state.
So if you are in need of some experiential learning and heading down to Peru, splurge and get a good guide…I always do when I travel…or you’d better brush up on the local dialect…or I recommend getting some kind of nearby therapy as Elena’s post suggested, traditional, medical, or alternative. I did and it did me good, and although things in my life are in flux right now, I have a strong sense that things could have been worse, like the outcome for some of the other boytoys, and I wouldn’t want anyone to have to go through what I did to see the truth. IMO, there are other less hurtful paths to the truth.
I recommend paying on a session by session basis.
Thanks, lauralupa, for that fascinating article.
laura 166 thanks you,
very power-full and a lot to digest,
will get back to you later on it,
a promise… and more nostalgia:
Laura, that’s an excellent synthesis of what we’ve been doing, what a pleasure to be here and get all the information that is being pulled out.
I resonated with almost everything that you excerpted but there is this paragraph I’d like to comment on:
“One of the possible interpretations of this principle is that enlightenment or spiritual mastery is just one particular skill, a particular technique of consciousness. It is important, it deserves respect, others can learn from it.
However, just as a great sportsperson or great artist is not necessarily overall a better human being, neither is a spiritual master, as the history of the last few decades has elaborately shown. Furthermore, guidance from such a master must be specific, an invitation for practice and experience, a witnessing on his part, but not in any way a fixed authority on the lives of any followers.”
The division that is being made here seems less open than one in which spiritual mastery is proper to each of the individuals in whatever degree, not to specific individuals in greater degree. This division is still trying to put “being” in another strata and that would inevitably bring hierarchy. What could be more beautiful is to acknowledge the being, the “spiritual self” within each individual regardless of the trade in which he happens to be in, or social position, to the point in which even the most vicious individual would still be acknowledged, fed and given the opportunity to participate. It is the lack of opportunities to participate what diminish people’s being into becoming from social nuisances to extreme criminals. The suffering of being neglected turns against the community or against one’s self. In as much as that is achieved, “social being”, “camaraderie” can develop, that is, trust, love, joy in mankind, positive emotions.
I think we have been approaching a time in which the idea that you can only be a sportsman or an artist, a biologist or an astronaut is in itself declining. In as much as we are ready to acknowledge that science and art need to reconnect as equally necessary aspects of our human experience, then we will also be able to acknowledge that each individual can and needs to develop both a practical and an artistic approach to his living experience.
A lot of what the paragraph chosen is saying is already true about a lot of us, not because that is an ideal situation but because we come from a time in which trades were divided and the western materialistic approach separated knowledge and being into little pieces. If we look at our personal education, we can observe that very few of us had the luck to explore our world and express in it with both a scientific and an artistic training. One could either study one or the other in most cases and art itself was for the very few talented ones. That is one of the causes of our present poverty! Our imbalances. The healing process for every adult and every young adult would need to regain trust in our ability to develop ourselves spiritually by bringing art into our specific practice. Anything one does brings back an specific state, feeds a particular condition. Playing an instrument, painting a line or repairing a computer, each have their own hydrogen. Being with the family, in a restaurant or in a theater also have very different effects. They are all necessary but different and each beautiful in its particular way. I remember nothing would heal Dorothy as much as going out to a restaurant in Marysville. Then she’d be stable for two or three days and very joyful while it was happening. .
Going back to our mirror, this is precisely what the Fellowship of Friends kills in its participants. ART. It makes of Art Robert’s tool to manipulate the community. He “deals” it out like he would deal a cookie to a dog after getting people to vow, sit, shit on themselves and kiss his ass. Or what would you call reading someone else’s sentences for a whole of a lifetime? I could be less graphic but would saying you are being systematically denigrated be more efficient?
Pardon me, I think I’m getting exited! A flush of energy enters and the images of people being manipulated so blatantly brings so much indignation. How could I put up with it for so long! He uses the artists to make the rest of the community believe that they are so lucky to belong to the Fellowship. He uses the artist’s “talent for vanity” to stroll around pretending that life is beautiful in the Fellowship of Friends, that at least they are flourishing like roses while the rest of students are placed as the audience to applaud; These, in their sixth, seventh or eigth lifetime, who can do nothing but make money for the nonexistent Arc, walk with their faces down because they have not managed to be present for even a minute in their whole lifetime while dressing and undressing for the next appearance in Court, drains their most beautiful life energy. How could we put up with it for so long?
It is interesting to watch how angry I am at other students. So angry at them for being part of the Fellowship of Friends. For having aided Robert so consistently. For being so unhappy and pretending not to be. We haven’t talked about this aspect of our experience yet on the blog and it needs to be addressed for a lot of it should come out, be dealt with. As angry at them as to myself for having helped the Fellowship. And at the exstudents for having waited for so long to help. But so grateful also for the sharing that is happening now.
It is interesting that the lack of self remembering properly understood or practiced and the lack of external consideration in any of its expressions, would develop a Monarchic state with a depraved sexual addict at its head. What the post you selected is pointing to and we on these blog is: not the hierarchy of individuals but the hierarchy of priorities: Individuals responsible for the world around them, connected and alive.
Laura, this second part of this post seems to be disconnected from the first part but they are both about second line of work or what ever the gurus in your post would wish to call it. Thanks again for bringing these things home.
.
Whalerider, I don’t remember you mentioning your wife was ill, sorry to hear that. I hope both your healings are nevertheless, going well.
Mel
Finally after struggling with my fears I have left the FOF,since Dec 07 .
My mind has been busy since trying to dissolve my shock of leaving. I have now to make it on my own because there is no conscience in the fof. It seems to me that the next step of evolution is through learning about conscience and developing one’s individual essence.
And the more the time passes the more I realise what an amazing experience we have had in the fof of subjecting ourselves for so many years to that level of discipline against our instinctive and emotional centres.
I am female so no stories of sexual abuse.
My heart changed towards R (Robert) about a year ago when in an outing to a ballet I saw the way he dealt with a female student wanting emotional energy from him during the intermission, R just left abruptly with one of his boys leaving a negative tinge in the air. Not the behaviour of a higher man in my books.
Later, on leaving the theatre I stayed to say good bye, though it was difficult emotionally because I felt I shouldn’t be there, the other students were looking away a bit aloof; then R came out leaving quickly and acknowledging just his usual chosen one’s not a good by from him to anyone left on the pavement.
For the first time I didn’t buffer the energy of everyone there , and I promised myself I was never going to allow myself to feel that again.
After learning from the blogg how much Robert has lied over the years I dared to talk to some students, one actually said to me that he had a sexual experience with Robert and it was not more than physical sex – I always buffered it thinking it was an spiritual experience for the student.
My disappointment was so great I have had not a real teacher or a real school but a dishonest and greedy for money teacher. The best part of my life has been spent with a liar teacher and that hurts.
Now I enjoy having teaching payments for me to spend in things I deprived myself because I couldn’t afford them. While R always enjoyed the best of things his students were suffering poverty. But may be the time will come for R that he will have to buy his shirts and suits in Wall Mart.
One day a young grape woke up jammed in his little cluster. The sun was rushing all over him. It was a beautiful day in the vineyard. This morning he was feeling a little wierd, a strange curiosity came over him and he began to wonder what his life was all about. He thought there must be a great meaning to his existence cloistered in this bunch.
A couple of grapes away he noticed a wrinkling, browned grape. He felt sorry for this old grape but also thought that maybe this grape might have an answer to some of his questions.
He called out: “Hey old grape you look like you have been around the cluster a few times, tell me what is the meaning of all this?”
Old grape: “Meaning?”
Young grape: “Yeah, we sit around all day baking in the sun day after day, there must be a grand meaning to it all- more than getting all brown and wrinkled.”
Old grape: “I don’t know of any meaning. The vineyard gives us everything we need and in the beautiful sun our life becomes sweeter and sweeter.”
Young grape: “But look at you, you are getting all brown and wrinkled, kind of ugly. Aren’t you sad?”
Old grape: “This is true, but I am not sad because my life is exceptionally sweet and this I give back to the vineyard for giving me life.”
Young grape: “Are you saying….”
Old grape: “Yes young grape – this is our Raisin Debt.”
I wonder what is happening here now, did I say something wrong again? Well, I hope someone can tell me what it was because I haven’t a clue.
In the meantime here is this article on William Penn. There are many interesting parallels to our situation. Very ironic contradictions of what the spirit of friedom of religion was and the tragedy that it has become. I hope you profit from this information.
William Penn, America’s First Great Champion for Liberty and Peace
by Jim Powell
Mr. Powell is editor of Laissez-Faire Books and Senior Fellow at the Cato Institute. He has written for The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Barron’s, American Heritage, and more than three dozen other publications. Copyright © by Jim Powell. Reprinted on http://www.quaker.org by permission.
William Penn was the first great hero of American liberty. During the late seventeenth century, when Protestants persecuted Catholics, Catholics persecuted Protestants, and both persecuted Quakers and Jews, Penn established an American sanctuary which protected freedom of conscience. Almost everywhere else, colonists stole land from the Indians, but Penn traveled unarmed among the Indians and negotiated peaceful purchases. He insisted that women deserved equal rights with men. He gave Pennsylvania a written constitution which limited the power of government, provided a humane penal code, and guaranteed many fundamental liberties.
For the first time in modem history, a large society offered equal rights to people of different races and religions. Penn’s dramatic example caused quite a stir in Europe. The French philosopher Voltaire, a champion of religious toleration, offered lavish praise. “William Penn might, with reason, boast of having brought down upon earth the Golden Age, which in all probability, never had any real existence but in his dominions. ”
Penn was the only person who made major contributions to liberty in both the New World and the Old World. Before he conceived the idea of Pennsylvania, he became the leading defender of religious toleration in England. He was imprisoned six times for speaking out courageously. While in prison, he wrote one pamphlet after another, which gave Quakers a literature and attacked intolerance. He alone proved capable of challenging oppressive government policies in court–one of his cases helped secure the right to trial by jury. Penn used his diplomatic skills and family connections to get large numbers of Quakers out of jail. He saved many from the gallows.
Despite the remarkable clarity of Penn’s vision for liberty, he had a curious blind spot about slavery. He owned some slaves in America, as did many other Quakers. Antislavery didn’t become a widely shared Quaker position until 1758, 40 years after Penn’s death. Quakers were far ahead of most other Americans, but it’s surprising that people with their humanitarian views could have contemplated owning slaves at all.
There were just two portraits of Penn painted during his lifetime, one depicting him as a handsome youth, the other as a stout old man. A biographer described young Penn’s “oval face of almost girlish prettiness but with strong features, the brusqueness of the straight, short nose in counterpoint to the almost sensuous mouth. What gives the face its dominant character are the eyes, burning with a dark, luminous insistence … it is known from verbal descriptions that Penn was fairly tall and athletic. Altogether, the young man must have been both handsome and impressive.”
William Penn was born on October 14, 1644, in London. The most specific description of his mother, Margaret, came from a neighbor, the acid-tongued diarist Samuel Pepys who described her as “well-looked, fat, short old Dutch woman, but one who hath been heretofore pretty handsome.” She did the child-rearing, since her husband, William Penn Sr., was seldom at home. He was a much sought-after naval commander because he knew the waters around England, could handle a ship in bad weather and get the most from his crew. Admiral Penn had a good personal relationship with Stuart kings and for a while served their most famous adversary, the Puritan Oliver Cromwell.
Left mostly to himself, young William became interested in religion. He was thrilled to hear a talk by Thomas Loe, a missionary for the Society of Friends derisively known as Quakers. Founded in 1647 by the English preacher George Fox, Quakers were a mystical Protestant sect emphasizing a direct relationship with God. An individual’s conscience, not the Bible, was the ultimate authority on morals. Quakers didn’t have a clergy or churches. Rather, they held meetings where participants meditated silently and spoke up when the Spirit moved them. They favored plain dress and a simple life rather than aristocratic affectation.
After acquiring a sturdy education in Greek and Roman classics, Penn emerged as a rebel when he entered Oxford University. He defied Anglican officials by visiting John Owen, a professor dismissed for advocating tolerant humanism. Penn further rebelled by protesting compulsory chapel attendance, for which he was expelled at age 17.
His parents sent him to France where he would be less likely to cause further embarrassment, and he might acquire some manners. He enrolled at l’Académie Protestante, the most respected French Protestant university, located in Saumur. He studied with Christian humanist Moïse Amyraut, who supported religious toleration.
Back in England by August 1664, Penn soon studied at Lincoln’s Inn, the most prestigious law school in London. He learned the common law basis for civil liberties and gained some experience with courtroom strategy. He was going to need it.
Admiral Penn, assigned to rebuilding the British Navy for war with the Dutch, asked that his son serve as personal assistant. Young William must have gained a valuable inside view of high command. Admiral Penn also used his son as a courier delivering military messages to King Charles II. Young William developed a cordial relationship with the King and his brother, the Duke of York, the future King James II.
Penn’s quest for spiritual peace led him to attend Quaker meetings even though the government considered this a crime. In September 1667, police broke into a meeting and arrested everyone. Since Penn looked like a fashionable aristocrat rather than a plain Quaker, the police released him. He protested that he was indeed a Quaker and should be treated the same as the others. Penn drew on his legal training to prepare a defense. Meanwhile, in jail he began writing about freedom of conscience. His father disowned him, and young Penn lived in a succession of Quaker households. He learned that the movement was started by passionate preachers who had little education. There was hardly any Quaker literature. He resolved to help by applying his scholarly knowledge and legal training. He began writing pamphlets, which were distributed through the Quaker underground.
In 1668, one of his hosts was Isaac Penington, a wealthy man in Buckinghamshire. Penn met his stepdaughter Gulielma Springett, and it was practically love at first sight. Poet John Milton’s literary secretary Thomas Ellwood noted her “innocently open, free and familiar Conversation, springing from the abundant Affability, Courtesy and Sweetness of her natural Temper.” Penn married Gulielma on April 4, 1672. She was to bear seven children, four of whom died in infancy.
Meanwhile, Penn attacked the Catholic/ Anglican doctrine of the Trinity, and the Anglican bishop had him imprisoned in the notorious Tower of London. Ordered to recant, Penn declared from his cold isolation cell: “My prison shall be my grave before I will budge a jot; for I owe my conscience to no mortal man.” By the time he was released seven months later, he had written pamphlets defining the principal elements of Quakerism. His best-known work from this period: No Cross, No Crown, which presented a pioneering historical case for religious toleration.
The Conventicle Act
He wasn’t free for long. To curb the potential power of Catholics, notably the Stuarts, Parliament passed the Conventicle Act, which aimed to suppress religious dissent as sedition. But the law was applied mainly against Quakers, perhaps because few were politically connected. Thousands were imprisoned for their beliefs. The government seized their properties, including the estate of his wife’s family.
Penn decided to challenge the Conventicle Act by holding a public meeting on August 14, 1670. The Lord Mayor of London arrested him and his fellow Quakers as soon as he began expressing his nonconformist religious views. At the historic trial, Penn insisted that since the government refused to present a formal indictment–officials were concerned the Conventicle Act might be overturned–the jury could never reach a guilty verdict. He appealed to England’s common-law heritage: “if these ancient and fundamental laws, which relate to liberty and property, and which are not limited to particular persuasions in matters of religion, must not be indispensably maintained and observed, who then can say that he has a right to the coat on his back? Certainly our liberties are to be openly invaded, our wives to be ravished, our children slaved, our families ruined, and our estates led away in triumph by every sturdy beggar and malicious informer–as their trophies but our forfeits for conscience’s sake.”
The jury acquitted all defendants, but the Lord Mayor of London refused to accept this verdict. He hit the jury members with fines and ordered them held in brutal Newgate prison. Still, they affirmed their verdict. After the jury had been imprisoned for about two months, the Court of Common Pleas issued a writ of habeas corpus to set them free. Then they sued the Lord Mayor of London for false arrest. The Lord Chief Justice of England, together with his 11 associates, ruled unanimously that juries must not be coerced or punished for their verdicts. It was a key precedent protecting the right to trial by jury.
Penn had become a famous defender of liberty who could attract several thousand people for a public talk. He traveled in Germany and Holland to see how Quakers there were faring. Holland made a strong impression because it was substantially free. It was a commercial center where people cared mainly about peaceful cooperation. Persecuted Jews and Protestants flocked to Holland. Penn began to form a vision of a community based on liberty.
He resolved to tap his royal connections for his cause. With the blessing of King Charles II and the Duke of York, Penn presented his case for religious toleration before Parliament. They would have none of it because they were worried about the Stuarts imposing Catholic rule on England, especially since the Duke of York had converted to Roman Catholicism and married a staunch Catholic.
The Founding of Pennsylvania
Penn became convinced that religious toleration couldn’t be achieved in England. He went to the King and asked for a charter enabling him to establish an American colony. Perhaps the idea seemed like an easy way to get rid of troublesome Quakers. On March 4, 1681, Charles II signed a charter for territory west of the Delaware River and north of Maryland, approximately the present size of Pennsylvania, where about a thousand Germans, Dutch and Indians lived without any particular government. The King proposed the name “Pennsylvania” which meant “Forests of Penn”–honoring Penn’s late father, the Admiral. Penn would be proprietor, owning all the land, accountable directly to the King. According to traditional accounts, Penn agreed to cancel the debt of £16,000 which the government owed the Admiral for back pay, but there aren’t any documents about such a deal. At the beginning of each year, Penn had to give the King two beaver skins and a fifth of any gold and silver mined within the territory.
Penn sailed to America on the ship Welcome and arrived November 8, 1682. With assembled Friends, he founded Philadelphia–he chose the name, which means “city of brotherly love” in Greek. He approved the site between the Delaware and Schuylkill rivers. He envisioned a 10,000 acre city, but his more sober-minded Friends thought that was overly optimistic. They accepted a 1,200-acre plan. Penn named major streets including Broad, Chestnut, Pine, and Spruce.
Penn was most concerned about developing a legal basis for a free society. In his First Frame of Government, which Penn and initial land purchasers had adopted on April 25, 1682, he expressed ideals anticipating the Declaration of Independence: “Men being born with a title to perfect freedom and uncontrolled enjoyment of all the rights and privileges of the law of nature … no one can be put out of his estate and subjected to the political view of another, without his consent.”
Penn provided that there would be a governor–initially, himself–whose powers were limited. He would work with a Council (72 members) which proposed legislation and a General Assembly (up to 500 members) which either approved or defeated it. Each year, about a third of members would be elected for three-year terms. As governor, Penn would retain a veto over proposed legislation.
His First Frame of Government provided for secure private property, virtually unlimited free enterprise, a free press, trial by jury and, of course, religious toleration. Whereas the English penal code specified the death penalty for some 200 offenses, Penn reserved it for just two–murder and treason. As a Quaker, Penn encouraged women to get an education and speak out as men did. He called Pennsylvania his “Holy Experiment.”
Penn insisted on low taxes. A 1683 law established a low tax on cider and liquor, a low tariff on imports and on exported hides and furs. To help promote settlement, Penn suspended all taxes for a year. When the time came to reimpose taxes he encountered fierce resistance and had to put it off.
Penn’s First Frame of Government was the first constitution to provide for peaceful change through amendments. A proposed amendment required the consent of the governor and 85 percent of the elected representatives. Benevolent though Penn was, people in Pennsylvania were disgruntled about his executive power as proprietor and governor. People pressed to make the limitations more specific and to provide stronger assurances about the prerogatives of the legislature. The constitution was amended several times. The version adopted on October 28, 1701 endured for three-quarters of a century and then became the basis for Pennsylvania’s state constitution, adopted in 1776.
Collecting rent due Penn as proprietor was always a headache. He never earned enough from the colonies to offset the costs of administration which he paid out of his personal capital. Toward the end of his life, he complained that Pennsylvania was a net loss, costing him some £30,000.
Penn’s practices contrasted dramatically with other early colonies, especially Puritan New England which was a vicious theocracy. The Puritans despised liberty. They made political dissent a crime. They whipped, tarred, and hanged Quakers. The Puritans stole what they could from the Indians.
Penn achieved peaceful relations with the Indians–Susquehannocks, Shawnees, and Leni-Lenape. Indians respected his courage, because he ventured among them without guards or personal weapons. He was a superior sprinter who could out-run Indian braves, and this helped win him respect. He took the trouble to learn Indian dialects, so he could conduct negotiations without interpreters. From the very beginning, he acquired Indian land through peaceful, voluntary exchange. Reportedly, Penn concluded a “Great Treaty” with the Indians at Shackamaxon, near what is now the Kensington district of Philadelphia. Voltaire hailed this as “the only treaty between those people [Indians and Christians] that was not ratified by an oath, and that was never infringed.” His peaceful policies prevailed for about 70 years, which has to be some kind of record in American history.
Defending Pennsylvania
Penn faced tough challenges defending Pennsylvania back in England. There was a lot at stake, because Pennsylvania had become the best hope for persecuted people in England, France, and Germany. Charles II tried to establish an intolerant absolutism modeled after that of the French King Louis XIV. Concerned that Pennsylvania’s charter might be revoked, Penn turned on his diplomatic charm.
Behind the scenes, Penn worked as a remarkable diplomat for religious toleration. Every day, as many as 200 petitioners waited outside Holland House, his London lodgings, hoping for an audience and help. He intervened personally with the King to save scores of Quakers from a death sentence. He got Society of Friends founder George Fox out of jail. He helped convince the King to proclaim the Acts of Indulgence which released more than a thousand Quakers–many had been imprisoned for over a dozen years.
Penn’s fortunes collapsed after a son was born to James II in 1688. A Catholic succession was assured. The English rebelled and welcomed the Dutch King William of Orange as William III, who overthrew the Stuarts without having to fire a shot. Suddenly, Penn’s Stuart connections were a terrible liability. He was arrested for treason. The government seized his estates. Though he was cleared by November 1690, he was marked as a traitor again. He became a fugitive for four years, hiding amidst London’s squalid slums. His friend John Locke helped restore his good name in time to see his wife, Guli, die on February 23, 1694. She was 48.
Harsh experience had taken its toll on Penn. As biographer Hans Fantel put it, “he was getting sallow and paunchy. The years of hiding, with their enforced inactivity, had robbed him of his former physical strength and grace. His stance was now slightly bent, and his enduring grief over the death of Guli had cast an air of listless abstraction over his face. ” His spirits revived two years later when he married 30-year-old Hannah Callowhill, the plain and practical daughter of a Bristol linen draper.
But he faced serious problems because of his sloppy business practices. Apparently, he couldn’t be bothered with administrative details, and his business manager, fellow Quaker Philip Ford, embezzled substantial sums from Penn’s estates. Worse, Penn signed papers without reading them . One of the papers turned out to be a deed transferring Pennsylvania to Ford who demanded rent exceeding Penn’s ability to pay. After Ford’s death in 1702, his wife, Bridget, had Penn thrown in debtor’s prison, but her cruelty backfired. It was unthinkable to have such a person govern a major colony, and in 1708 the Lord Chancellor ruled that “the equity of redemption still remained in William Penn and his heirs.”
In October 1712, Penn suffered a stroke while writing a letter about the future of Pennsylvania. Four months later, he suffered a second stroke.
While he had difficulty speaking and writing, he spent time catching up with his children whom he had missed during his missionary travels. He died on July 30, 1718. He was buried at Jordans, next to Guli.
Long before his death, Pennsylvania ceased to be a spiritual place dominated by Quakers. Penn’s policy of religious toleration and peace–no military conscription–attracted all kinds of war-weary European immigrants. There were English, Irish, and Germans, Catholics, Jews, and an assortment of Protestant sects including Dunkers, Huguenots, Lutherans, Mennonites, Moravians, Pietists, and Schwenkfelders. Liberty brought so many immigrants that by the American Revolution Pennsylvania had grown to some 300,000 people and became one of the largest colonies. Pennsylvania was America’s first great melting pot.
Philadelphia was America’s largest city with almost 18,000 people. It was a major commercial center–sometimes more than a hundred trading ships anchored there during a single day. People in Philadelphia could enjoy any of the goods available in England. Merchant companies, shipyards, and banks flourished. Philadelphia thrived as an entrepôt between Europe and the American frontier.
With an atmosphere of liberty, Philadelphia emerged as an intellectual center. Between 1740 and 1776, Philadelphia presses issued an estimated 11,000 works including pamphlets, almanacs, and books. In 1776, there were seven newspapers reflecting a wide range of opinions. No wonder Penn’s “city of brotherly love” became the most sacred site for American liberty, where Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence, and delegates drafted the Constitution.
By creating Pennsylvania, Penn set an enormously important example for liberty. He showed that people who are courageous enough, persistent enough, and resourceful enough can live free. He went beyond the natural right theories of his friend John Locke and showed how a free society would actually work. He showed how individuals of different races and religions can live together peacefully when they mind their own business. He affirmed the resilient optimism of free people.
Elena,
“I wonder what is happening here now, did I say something wrong again? Well, I hope someone can tell me what it was because I haven’t a clue.”
Just wondering “aloud,”
what makes you think
you “said” something wrong?
Technically “speaking”
you are not “saying”
anything at all.
Thanks for the story about Penn, I live in Phila., a rich sense of “american” history about the place… ben franklin is an interesting bio. but the whole business of holding up the constitution and the “founding fathers” as sacred, is in many respects dubious…
if yer ever in phila look us up…
please forgive if I repeat:
yesri,
what did the frenchman say to the frog?
In the Fellowship of Friends as it is prescribed by Robert Earl Burton “being present” is exactly the inner process of willfully suspending normal processes of disbelief and good sense based on rational analysis and direct observation and instead self-promoting the psychological suspended animation necessary for near total credulity to displace intelligence. When anyone inside expresses honest and understandable questions about the shadowy activities of Burton and the general synthetic “positive attitude at all costs” mentality that operates on the surface of this cult society then the resounding recoil from those under the sway of the reversed-intelligence is: be present! What that means is that the questioner is involuntarily drifting back into the range of normal and rational mental and emotional perceptions due to a lack of self-suppression and he needs to make a concerted effort to stifle the correct operation of his mind and heart in order to endure the oppressive and delusional non-reality shared by the 1,500 members of an infected emotional pustule in the tissue of society.
The final solution to the natural buoyancy of the human spirit to rise out of hallucination is Burton’s invention of the soul deadening practice of “the sequence.” It is nothing more than self-hypnotism employed as a counter to the correct and inquiring operation of a healthy mind and heart. The sequence is a self-inflicted criminal process that turns off portions of the brain so that those as of yet still somewhat psychologically alive can endure the distressing counterfeit elation feigned by those collected around the opposite of consciousness, a man motivated by the most mechanical forces in nature: sexual obsession, greed and the reactive, defensive device against inner barrenness, narcissism. The Fellowship of Friends is a cult of narcissism, a place where self-flattering lies are actually worshiped. Burton calls himself a prophet and yet the only thing he can predict is that lies will make him money, power will secure him the endless penises his perverted sex function needs for satisfaction and using exulted ideas against dead minds will insure his supply of admirers. Those still involved in this communal pustule are themselves willfully and criminally self-deranged in exchange for being lied to and told that they are something excellent.
halftruth,
thanks…
have to give it to u
4 the hypnotized
this post is
hard truth.
178. Thank you Hard Truth, spot on!
I remember a few years ago, when many students walked around with
clickers, these ridiculous metal gadgets that one had to click
each time you remembered your self.
Click, click, click sounds all over the place.
I think the aim was a 1000 clicks a day.
It was insane, childish and stupid!
Elena,
Try the “Ephrata” community in Pennsylvania. I read an interesting article about this community. More advanced than the Fellowship of Friends. They could reach the “inner light within”.
I forgot the name of the leader of this community but he was very humble. Not far from this community existed a country store. The owner of this store always degraded this humble man.
During the Revolution British soldiers were dining at this country store and had interaction with the owner. To make points with the British he spoke ill of the “Ephrata” community and I think offered himself as a British spy.
The British didnt like the quick “traitor” character of the owner and let him be. Sometime later the owner was captured by American forces and held as traitor to be hung.
The leader of this community heard about it and walked 60 miles in the ice and snow in behalf of this store owner who always degraded him.
When he reached George Washington’s camp, Washington heard him out. He told the men holding the store owner to tell him that the only reason he would live to see another day is because of this humble community leader.
Do you think Robert Burton would walk 60 miles in the snow and ice for anybody on this blog?
“Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their “legislature” should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.”
Thomas Jefferson.
This is wonderful! It’s all there. There is no conflict between our natural rights and social duties and Cults violate them all.
Ton.
The spirit of the constitution is beautiful. It is our practices what are still struggling to reach that spirit.
ltya
Did you mean to contact you when I come to Philadelphia?
Arthur, our posts came out at the same time. That is a lovely story! Robert? he wouldn’t even talk to his mother when she was dying and presented us with this as a heroic act! AND WE BOUGHT IT FOR HOW LONG?
Oh dear, the exitement again! Can we remember just your story for a while?
A few recent words on eternity, arrogance and sequential dieting:
“Very few people want the sequence, because it is so minimal. I thank you for wanting and embracing it. Remember, the state we are in will eventually survive the death of the physical body and be eternal. Nothing can compare to it.”
Robert Burton, March 2008
“Those who have difficulty with the current form are not able to take Influence C on their own divine terms. There is a lot of arrogance in that. Who are we to question them?”
Robert Burton, March 2008
“Influence C has put our school on a sequential diet. Those who can accept this fact will stay, and those who do not will have to go.”
Robert Burton, March 2008
And, gentlemen, this one is for you:
“Later many of you will have to work with younger people on all the things I have worked on with you. It requires infinite patience. “
Robert Burton, March 2008
“Those who have difficulty with the current form are not able to take Influence C on their own divine terms. There is a lot of arrogance in that. Who are we to question them?”
Robert Burton, March 2008
Robert Burton is not C influence, Burton is about as far from the spirit of C influence as a man can get. That he imagines that his pathetic manipulations are born on high is beyond arrogance, it is delusion. Robert Burton is a rapist, a liar and a maniac. Those that continue to follow the unsophisticated deceits of this obsessive thing are worst than just fools.
178 hardtruth
Good one.
#174: I like the grapes analogy. The simpler the better as far as I’m concerned. Maybe I’m a simpleton. Do we need to get sooo involved with our intellectual spin on things? Yikes!!!! I’m kind of weary of it.
Maybe I’ll move into a cave.
178 hardtruth
“In the Fellowship of Friends as it is prescribed by Robert Earl Burton “being present” is exactly the inner process of willfully suspending normal processes of disbelief and good sense based on rational analysis and direct observation and instead self-promoting the psychological suspended animation necessary for near total credulity to displace intelligence.”
* * *
I wonder if a part of what happens with intelligent people buying into the sequence nonsense, stems from an initial error, that is taught to them in the fellowship of friends, about what self-remembering is.
I remember reading somewhere that when Gurdjieff first came to America to check on the groups that some of his people had begun he had told them they were making a mistake about self-remembering and that in fact what they took as self-observation was not what he was teaching at all.
He said the self-observation they were doing would only make them a candidate for an American lunatic asylum.
I forget who this following quote is from. It is from a post by Bass Ackwards a page or so ago. I believe it may have been Trungpa.
“Self-remembering is quite a dangerous technique, actually. It could involve watching yourself and your actions like a hungry cat watching mice, or else it could be an intelligent gesture of being where you are. The whole point is that, if you have any idea of relationship-I am experienceing this, I am doing this-then “I” and “this” are very strong personalities, equally. Somehow there will be a conflict between “I” and “this”. It is rather like saying that “this” is the mother and “I” the father. With two such polar extremes involved you are bound to give birth to something. So the whole idea is to let “this” not be there, and then “I” will not be there. It is not a matter of telling it to yourself, but of feeling it, a real experience. You must take away the watcher, the observer of the two extremes. Once the watcher is removed, then the whole structure falls apart. The dichotomy remains in existence only so long as there is an observer to keep the whole picture together. You must remove the watcher and the very complicated bureaucracy he creates to insure that nothing is missed by central headquarters. Once we take away the watcher, there is a tremendous amount of space, because he and his bureaucracy take up so much room. If we eliminate the filter of “I” and “Other” then the space becomes sharp and precise and intelligent. Space contains the tremendous precision of being able to work with the situation in it. One does not really need the “watcher” or “observer” at all.”
The sequence and the idea that people would be walking around with clickers to count how many times they have remembered themselves should be an obvious signal that some essential idea has been misunderstood.
That the sequence produces results in the form of altered states is not surprising. One can repetitively do almost anything and alter one’s state. It appears to me that even more importantly, the sequence may dangerously help to solidify the very separateness that needs to be dissolved.
If the people involved in the school could just step back a bit and look at what is going on, without the fear factor that Robert Burton perpetuates (the fear of not doing what C influence wishes, which is just a variety of the same old theme that much of what passes for Christianity uses when they teach people to fear God and to be afraid of displeasing Him) they would see that these exercises they are doing are just plain wacko, and that Robert Burton is, as Hardtruth says, ‘beyond arrogance’, and is ‘delusional’.
Yep, moving into my cave now.
“Remember, the state we are in will eventually survive the death of the physical body and be eternal. Nothing can compare to it.”
What then? Dancing with the stars? Nibbling fomunda cheese beneath Orion’s belt?
Making up assinine mental gymnastic exercises for nincompoops?
177
I don’t know ton, what did the frenchman say to the frog?
“Those who have difficulty with the current form are not able to take Influence C on their own divine terms. There is a lot of arrogance in that. Who are we to question them?” – Robert Burton, March 2008
What a beautiful and juicy example of rhetoric. Let me take it apart with gusto. Robert Burton makes several statements, but to properly understand this daily card, you must have many more beliefs that are implied:
A spiritual hierarchy exists in which Robert Burton is much more highly evolved than any other Fellowship member, based on the fact that he says so. As such, he is able to see truths and receive information that other members of FOF are not able to understand unless he correctly interprets it for them. Robert Burton claims to communicate directly with immortal divine beings that he calls Influence C and are invisible to other FOF members. He claims these immortal beings are at the same or even higher level in the spiritual hierarchy that he claims exists. These immortal invisible beings allegedly have a special plan for the FOF and its members, and communicate their plans and intents exclusively through Robert Burton. Robert Burton claims that part of their plan is for FOF members to practice a repetitive mental technique called “the sequence” as often as possible, in order to reach a state that he calls “divine presence”.
With all that background knowledge, the translation of the above daily card:
“There are invisible supernatural beings who have a plan for your life that is much more intelligent than you could possibly understand. And I will tell you what that plan is. It is to repeat “the sequence” in your mind as often as you can. If you find that difficult to accept, you are foolishly resisting what I say that divine forces know is best for you. Who do you think you are to not accept what I say that divine forces say you should do with your life? How dare you question what I tell you is coming from divine beings?” – Love, Robert; March 2008
In short, authoritarian leader encouraging childish dependency in his members. Belief in Robert Burton is ultimate. Genuine spiritual exploration, which led many of us to look for a group, has become a thing of the past, or an underground and shameful activity. Sad.
“Very few people want the sequence, because it is so minimal. I thank you for wanting and embracing it. Remember, the state we are in will eventually survive the death of the physical body and be eternal. Nothing can compare to it.” – Robert Burton, March 2008
This is pathetic. I can’t believe how long we were all sitting there and inventing apologies for putting up with this shit. Robert Burton is so unable to see himself. Same old appeal to vanity – being among the chosen few who want this. Same old appeal to vanity – thank you for wanting and embracing it – so even if you didn’t feel like you wanted it just a moment ago, you are flattered that your teacher is thanking you for a quality you now feel you have to live up to. Same old appeal to commonality of belief – Remember – as if this is something everybody has already verified as a fact. Then people jump on the bandwagon, feeling pressured by the assumption that even all their peers only need to be gently reminded of the indisputability of post-mortem life. Many FOF members just don’t notice when someone is doing their thinking for them. And finally, as Yesri Baba said more eloquently, whatcha gonna do with yourself once you are eternal and immortal? Oh maybe, you’ll finally show all those people who have spiraled down to the moon on their descending octaves, then they’ll see how lost they were! Na-na-na-na-na.
Think: an eternity of having to put up with yourself all proper and conscious. Bwahahahaha
Newly moderated comments: 125, 126, 131, 177
Sorry for the time delay, just came back from holiday.
Ton 126
Good vid . it gathers a number of issues together.
there are those who say Peak oil is a lie too, I mean how can you charge a lot of money for something if it isnt scarce?.
Mel 177
Congratulations on escaping!
theres a certain sacbee reporter wanting to hear from recently departed people like you….
“Rejoice and be exceeding glad….”
jx
Ps.
To everyone…
Had another zany idea …..of writing to our “friends” who are still trapped inside! Because looking back if I had received a letter from one of the friends I then had who left while I remained, it would have stirred something in me.
There was one guy I remember he was Spanish I think quite instinctive…anyway at the time it seemed he was suffering intensely…he was the “man of the moment” I wanted to reach out to him and then he was gone….
If he had sent me a letter it would have sped up my process, perhaps saved me from having to experience the same as he no doubt did.
Letters to current “students” would break the vicious circle of secrecy in that sphere.
In looking back it was a closed envirnonment and very controlled.
There were a few occasions when a certain individual removed notes which had been placed in everyones cubby holes, dont know if it was a personal initiative as he was a really “devoted” follower one of the pillars of the “school”, of wether he had been instructed to remove them.
But personal letters from friends would be another issue and their removal constitute an illegal act.
These folks are ourselves…back in time a little and deserve our attempt at reaching in to them.
Bear in mind how you would have felt upon receiving a letter from an “ex student” though, back then.
Just an idea and its not been screened, just presented as it occured in such a messy way as the dog needs a walk.
later dudes and dudesses.
jx
#194 James Mc Lemore
Yes, the quotation is from Chogyam Trungpa, “Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism”. It illustrates the fundamental problem very well.
James 194
“without the fear factor that Robert Burton perpetuates… which is just a variety of the same old theme that much of what passes for Christianity uses when they teach people to fear God and to be afraid of displeasing Him…”
The thing with the clickers, if I didn’t know better I would have to say it’s a joke… thanks for the quote from trungpa, it points out the danger of certain types of dissociative dysfunction that can occur with “the work.” IMO the whole idea is about “wholeness” to become one inside and out, with awareness. A misconception of “western” cultural programming seems to include this idea of A heroic figure, A savior, “THE ONE”… Robert Burton has been successful at duping the unsuspecting by playing on the notion that he is “THE ONE.” There seems to be a basic human drive to believe in something transcendent, the search takes on very perverse forms — the hypnotized have made Robert Burton defacto “C influence,” it’s the bed they have to sleep in until they wake up… until then, if they go on believing this hogwash, Robert Burton as “oracle” is as close as they will get to gnosis and direct personal contact… it’s sad. The systematic effort to get members to burn bridges, severe ties with “life” in order to maximize insulation and dependency on the organization, makes the threat of “banishment” from the community, friends, family, loved ones, (raisin debt), all the more effective… where is one to turn if asked to go? To the streets? Then there is the deeper strata of consequence implied by “excommunication” eternal, damnation, the scary, scary moon… oooooo.
thanks to mel 177, traveller and all
Yesri,
do you want the short or long version?
rribbett
Jack 201 I think your idea is a good one for those who still know people inside. It’s been a long time since I left, so personally I don’t know anyone I could “reasonably” send a letter to… But here’s a zany-er idea, if anyone knows somebody with access to a helicopter or small plane we could drop “leaflets” on the pile… (tongue in cheek).
Welcome Mel and congratulations on your escape.
Elena:
Thank you for your well wishes. Our healing is ongoing. Our paths have separated.
Mel:
Thank you for your story. Yes, congratulations on the awakening of your conscience.
************
Traveler:
Please pass the relish.
“Remember, the state we are in will eventually survive the death of the physical body and be eternal.” RB
Ignorance is bliss. To become immortal, which if you think about it, really has to do with not being forgotten by humanity, you must work on a much larger scale than a few self-serving, hyper-vigilant “states”. The Northern Californian Sex Guru is not even on the same page as the immortal, Gandhi, for example. We humans want to hold Gandhi’s achievements up to the light of eternity as a testimony of our humanity and the power of good. That’s what makes him immortal. We proudly lift him up.
IMO, you can recognize a person’s level of being by the tracks of their consciousness they leave behind in humanity after their passing.
Once I self-graduated from the ‘school’, I realized that the lines of work in a school are in reality practice for living within the community of others on the planet. Duh. It is supreme arrogance and unhealthy narcissism to suggest that a small group of self-serving individuals leaving such a trace would be held in such high regard by the immeasurable Absolute and granted immortality exclusive of all others. IMHO, to be a bleep on the radar of even the next world up the ladder, you have to work on Gandhi scale. You need all of Who-ville screaming your message at the top of their lungs to barely be noticed. IMHO.
Didn’t we all hold the ideal that what we were doing was for the good of humanity? Of course we were duped, but think of all the philanthropic acts could have been done with the FOF millions.
“Those who have difficulty with the current form are not able to take Influence C on their own divine terms. There is a lot of arrogance in that. Who are we to question them?” – Robert Burton, March 2008
Those who have difficulty with the current form of the blog are not able to take the truth on its own divine terms. There is a lot of arrogance in that. Who are we to deny the truth?
Also welcome home SHEIK
Holiday…… I’ve heard rumors about such a thing! It seems like an interesting concept.
I don’t know…. I’d have to see one first.
jx
Congratulations Mel and thanks for sharing your story.
Does anyone know what is happening with the Sacramento Bee article? Perhaps they were threatened with a lawsuit like that television program some years ago. It was either 20/20 or 60 minutes. They received a very threatening letter from Abraham Goldman and that ended that.
This is not, by any stretch of the imagination, an endorsement of the Church of Scientology, yet, they did and still do take a public stand against the overuse of Ritalin in children. I at least give them credit for that. (IMO, Scientology as a viable alternative treatment is a bit dubious…you have hire one of them on your staff to practice it.)
Most churches in my community have social programs to reach out to others…to those in need…my question is: can you consider a fourth way school a church?
Churches usually refer to buildings, too, assembly halls for places of worship. Often there is an altar or focal point of prayer.
The fourth way (if it exists at all) are fragments of a teaching assembled and practiced in people independent of location. There is no worship in the fourth way or the FOF, only meetings, events, and dinners…like a club or an association. Robert worships the phallus and his followers worship him before God. By what stretch of the imagination does the FOF make a religion out of learning how to appreciate art, dance, or music with heightened self-awareness or “divine presence”?
Traveler wrote: ” And finally, as Yesri Baba said more eloquently, whatcha gonna do with yourself once you are eternal and immortal? Oh maybe, you’ll finally show all those people who have spiraled down to the moon on their descending octaves, then they’ll see how lost they were! Na-na-na-na-na. Think: an eternity of having to put up with yourself all proper and conscious. Bwahahahaha”
LOL. You’re really getting to the heart of the matter with these comments. As long as we’re speculating on the afterlife, who knows… Maybe the hateful state that you describe above (because that’s exactly what it is — a form of hate)… is actually Hell?
There’s a new book out right now called Apollo’s Fire: Igniting America’s Clean Energy Economy
Ironically, the cover of the book shows a huge image of the Earth’s moon with the name Apollo draped all over it:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1597261750/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link
Of course, as former and current followers know all too well, Robert Burton routinely preaches to his followers that the moon is Hell — yes the Hell that we all know and love. And keep in mind that if you are not a member of the Fellowship of Friends — all of you nearly 7 billion people out there who didn’t happen to find an fof bookmark — you are going to be “food for the Moon.” You will go to Hell.
Fear.
No, fear is not a new concept in the effort to manipulate and control people.
But, getting back to that book cover, similar such coincidences are typical of what Burton will grab for his own use. He will routinely say that “Influence C” is presenting us an omen and will argue this by making the most absurd connections — for example, the birthmark on Gorbachev’s head being a sign related to Armageddon, which he predicted for the year 2006 (which, hmm, is rarely discussed anymore — quite odd).
So, with this book cover, I can only imagine Burton giving a dinner at $400 a head, with 20 people packed into the dining room:
“Did everyone see the cover to the new book called Apollo’s Fire? [smiling as he looks at the person to his left, but with a certain earnestness and sarcastic glint in his eye]. Well, I find it interesting that I just changed the name from Isis back to Apollo, and this book comes out. It’s quite remarkable. On the cover, the name Apollo is draped over a large image of the moon. This is one of the most startling shocks that we’ve received.”
“What does it mean, Robert?” a follower asks.
“Well, with Influence C, it could mean anything. But it’s obviously a very strong omen. You know, I have to be honest for a change. Maybe I was wrong. Maybe it is all of us who will be transported to the moon upon our deaths. Maybe I have led you all astray.”
The room grows silent, and the servers stop in their tracks with plates in hand — looking at Robert and wondering.
Rear View Mirror: Good scenario, but let me translate it into the way Robert actually talks:
It is interesting that we changed the name to Apollo just 44 days ago, is it not? The name of our city-state. [gazes meaningfully into the distance, tilting head to a slight left angle, activating his full-toothed smile for 3 seconds as if sharing a private poignant joke with himself] Yesterday we discovered this in a bookstore in Los Angeles. Would you show the image, dear? [picture of book cover comes on screen in the corner, all heads break contact with Robert’s left eye for a moment to take in the impression] It says Apollo’s Fire: Igniting America’s Clean Energy Economy. [he smirks, and audience follows suit as they recognize this is clearly a message from C Influence, reminding and reassuring them of the Gods’ working relationship with the School] The word ‘igniting’ refers to the presence in your heart of hearts, in the holy Kaaba /pronounced: ka-BAH/ where you must ignite long be with the sequence. The picture represents the moon. [beat] Shakespeare said Lord-what-fools-these-mortals-be. [looks at audience expectantly, audience nods in recognition and agreement] The moon symbolizes a cold and desolate place in the universe. Marvelously, they are showing us the fire of Apollo: the destiny of those who are not trying to promote divine presence, the third eye. [points to the third eye of the person sitting next to him while the person tries to not lose his long-be] Apollo was the Greek god of beauty. [putting hands on his knees, raises eyebrows, bulges eyeballs and sports a whiff of a smile] Just as we are creating beauty every time we are present. We are creating that which is eternal. The Bible says that every hair is counted. Every time you make an effort to reach long be, you are exceedingly fortunate to escape from the treacherous lower self. The anonymous 14th century English monk said, leave me, I do not want thee. Leave the lower self, abandon the world and its meaningless entanglements. [beat] They are giving us so much now, you see. [bows head slightly and nods reassuringly] It will soon be 38 years since I met Influence C, and 32 years since my crystallization. [folds left arm over his chest, stroking chin and cheek with right hand philosophically] Christ was 33 years old when he was nailed to the cross. We must accept Influence C on their own uncompromising terms, you see. [drifts off for a few seconds, then looks at his watch]
Thank you my dears, it was a lovely event. [folds hands in a ‘namaste’ gesture and gets up]
See Rear View Mirror, your interpretation of the symbolism was just much too logical and straightforward to be believably Robert. :)
Mel, you are the best news we’ve had around here in a long time. Thank you for writing! Welcome to life! How long were you in the Fellowship?
Do you have support? Emotional support? Friends and family you can go back to? Job? Do you need a vacation?
Recovering takes a long time. I’ve been out for a year and I’m not even close to feeling that it has cleared out of my system. By the presence of so many that have been out for over twenty years you can tell how affected they are.
Looking back at this year there are different areas of recovery.
Physically; the instinctive center. That was a big one for me. Just recovering physically will give a lot of trust back to you. To you or anyone coming out. If you’d like to go and spend some time down in the Caribbean cost, please let me know, whatever your economy is not the issue. There are no risks no matter how much bad press Colombia gets.
Emotionally I am still recovering. It is not surprising that that one will probably take much longer because we’ve been deranged so badly. Spending time with friends and family, people before the Fellowship that new you helps. I think it is about recovering essence, which was literally annihilated in the Fellowship.
Being with my father, in the city and nature I grew up and the people of my nation was like if pieces of a puzzle called Elena were being put back together. After overcoming the many mutual accounts for having abandoned each other for so long, being with my father was a great gift. He is old and we spent the most beautiful time together we had ever spent. At the beginning it was difficult. At some point I told him I had been with sick enough people and was myself sick enough to put up with his negativity and rented a room elsewhere but continued to visit him. That opened something and a month later he invited me to come back. Then it was glorious!
Our emotional values have been programmed by FOF dogma. Watch out for those as they come.
Intellectually the harms are terrible. Our whole outlook on life has been programmed. Listen to as many people as you can, read all the views on the blog and elsewhere. Feel the different approaches. It is a pleasure to see the different possibilities and most specially how wonderful it is to have an almost infinite number of possibilities and not just the one, closed up, deranged outlook of the Fellowship of Friends.
Finally if you take only one suggestion: let yourself be and solve the rest as it comes!
It is an honor to welcome you to the community of human beings.
Traveler, you are amazing! A perfect characterization of the scripted bs we listened to. My God, you should write a screen play, a satire on Cults – I bet it would be fantastic, and we would all recognize our lunatic experiences. It would be a good catharthis for us.
Also, your interpretations of the daily cards are spot on, and beautifully articulated. Should be added to “The Best of the Blog”.
I’m having trouble articulating this, but I find myself repulsed by the image of the “student”, listening to this crap, who internally tells himself: “this is insane – I don’t believe this nonsense, I know better than all these fanatics around me, but I will keep my inner intelligence, keep quiet, in order to continue to partake of all the good that there is in the community of the Fellowship.” That inner split is what drove me a bit insane in there.
It is true that the ’07 videos were pulled already, so get the ’95 videos while you can. (#131). If you download them to hard disk, I would not be able to stop you if you feel inclined to resubmit them to other sites like YouTube, GoogleVideo etc.
This is the information age. Censorship is ultimately futile.
seeing is disbelieving, would you please remind me where to find the o7 videos? I can watch them now.
In the first one of 95 which I just saw, he is still fairly human, he even gets up to toast to people. Later he wouldn’t even talk to people directly but to Assaf. In one of those 8.000 dollar dinners with twelve people he did this. I almost puked at the table. So sorry I didn’t.
Was it 8.000 or 4.000 thousand? We were invited but it was around 700 per couple so yes probably around 8.
When the numbers get so high
Of the dead flying through the sky
O, I don’t know why
Love comes to me
Love comes to me
When your mouth is laying ope
Head knocked back you don’t cope
You’re out of rings and flowers and soap
Love comes to me
Love comes to me
Love comes to me
Love comes and all
It’s my hands, my heart, my lips
And that is all
When the fever hits on your forehead
And trusive mice chew up your bed
And you call on God and God is dead
Love comes to you
Love comes to you
O, sugar won’t you be my only
I’m a hard-hearted honey-pot hungry shepherd
And I’m longing to be born for you, that’s her
Love comes to you
Love comes and all
It’s your hands, your heart, your lip
And that is all
In the night time when you feel me
And the backs of your knees conceal me
And your eyeballs unreal me
Love comes to me
Love comes to me
Bonnie Prince Billy
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5220874428578215825&q=bonnie+prince+billy+love+comes+to+me&total=4&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
I am copying this nice post from the Reality Sandwich blog. Now, wouldn’t it be great for ex-FoF ladies to be able participate to this New Orleans event? Pardon me for saying it so plainly, but being reminded that having a vagina is indeed beautiful is a very, very healing thing.
“on dreams and reality…
Submitted by presentpeace on Fri, 03/28/2008 – 17:52.
Thank you so very much for contributing this article to the world. For me it comes at a time when I sorely need to remind myself of my own power to dream my reality into being. I’m actually familiar with the process and consciously use it quite heavily. Of course, as with so many people, I sometimes backslide into the nightmare when circumstances get particularly stressful, as they are now. Still, the more I dream things into being, the easier it gets.
This is the second year I will be involved with The Vagina Monologues here in Chicago at our own Apollo Theatre, where the production first took place when it landed here in Chi-town (my cast performs this Sunday—sold out—and another performs on Monday) and it’s the tenth anniversary of the original production. The author, Eve Ensler, has written a letter that will be read at the end of the performances, which always benefit women’s advocacy groups, shelters, and the like and are sponsored by Vday.org. In the letter, she invites the audience to come to New Orleans on April 11th and 12th to “plant marsh grass, dance in the streets, turn the superdome into superlove, hear stories, honor the earth and women’s bodies, fight for racial justice, demand equitable housing and healthcare, support men in being vulnerable, eat great food, and conjure revolution.”
I tell you this because it, too, is about dreaming a new world into being. V-Day’s spotlight campaign for this year is the women of the Gulf South and New Orleans who “live daily the universal plight of women in conflict zones—high levels of violence; economic hardship; racism; and public structures that failed to protect them.” The spotlight piece itself that will be read at both shows ends with this: “New Orleans is the vagina of America. If we honor her, if we heal her, if we praise her, we can change her story and the story of women.”
I, too, am changing my very painful story each day, dreaming it into the glorious existence that is also a tool for healing not only myself but others. This is the second year that I’ve come to the Vagina Monologues, a most powerfully transformative piece of art that is based on real women’s stories.
Tonight I read your entry here on RS and realized again that, not only am I dreaming myself into a higher state of being each day but the world is meeting me half way by dreaming me, too. The Universe truly is great! So are you. Thank you for this article…and your book, Shaman, Healer, Sage, which, along with Daniel Pinchbeck’s Breaking Open the Head have been given to me by friends at just the right time and have led to various other books and experiences that have been part of my steady awakening to the dream of real life…and the life of my dreams! I am truly, profoundly grateful for all that is my life.
Again, thanks for this article.
Bless you tenfold!”
Peace to you all
http://www.realitysandwich.com/how_shamans_dream_world_being
Here is another instance in which the government rules against an individual for his actions trying to protect himself because of his religious or cult believes.
“the legitimate powers of the government reach actions only, and not opinions.”
Reynolds v. United States, 98 U.S. 145 (1878), was a Supreme Court of the United States case that held that religious duty was not a suitable defense to a criminal indictment. George Reynolds was a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, charged with bigamy after marrying Amelia Jane Schofield while still married to Mary Ann Tuddenham in the Utah Territory.
Before the Supreme Court, Reynolds argued that his conviction for bigamy should be overturned on six issues. These included that his grand jury had not been legal, that challenges of certain jurors were improperly overruled, testimony by Amelia Jane Schofield was not permissible as it was under another indictment, and most importantly that it was his religious duty to marry multiple times.
Prior history
Reynolds was indicted in the District Court for the 3rd Judicial District of the Territory of Utah under sect. 5352 of the Revised Statutes, which stated:
‘Every person having a husband or wife living, who marries another, whether married or single, in a Territory, or other place over which the United States have exclusive jurisdiction, is guilty of bigamy, and shall be punished by a fine of not more than $500, and by imprisonment for a term of not more than five years.’
Reynolds tried to instruct the jury that if the jury found he committed polygamy with the only intention of following his religion, then he must be found not guilty. However, the trial court refused this request and instructed the jury that if they found that Reynolds, under religious influence, “deliberately married a second time, having a first wife living, the want of consciousness of evil intent — the want of understanding on his part that he was committing crime — did not excuse him, but the law inexorably, in such cases, implies criminal intent.”[1] After being found guilty by the lower court, Reynolds appealed to the Supreme Court of the Utah Territory, which upheld the conviction.
Religious Duty argument
The most important ruling of the case was over whether Reynolds could use a defense due to religious belief or duty. Reynolds had argued that as a Mormon, it was his religious duty as a male member of the church to practice polygamy if possible.
The Supreme Court recognized that under the First Amendment, the Congress cannot pass a law that prohibits the free exercise of religion. However it argued that the law prohibiting bigamy did not fall under this. The fact that a person could only be married to one person had existed since the times of King James I of England in English law on which United States law was based.
Although the constitution did not define religion, the Court investigated the history of religious freedom in the United States. In the ruling, the court quoted a letter from Thomas Jefferson in which he stated that there was a distinction between religious belief and action that flowed from religious belief. The former “lies solely between man and his God,” therefore “the legislative powers of the government reach actions only, and not opinions.” The court argued that if we allowed polygamy, how long before someone argued that human sacrifice was a necessary part of their religion, and “to permit this would be to make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself.” The Court believed the true spirit of the First Amendment was that Congress could not legislate against opinion but could legislate against action.
The version of Jefferson’s Danbury letter which the Court used was in fact a mistaken transcription. While the Court quoted Jefferson as writing, “the legislative powers of the government reach actions only, and not opinions”, Jefferson’s original handwriting reads “the legitimate powers of the government reach actions only, and not opinions.”
Traveler, 211, you nailed it.
No exaggeration, every single word you wrote could easily describe tomorrow’s meeting.
Is Robert Burton that predictable? Absolutely.
And, let me see, wasn’t “predictability” one of the main characteristics of a person who is…
…mechanical and asleep?
Another coincidence!
Stephen Johnson Field
After studying law in New York City with his brother David Dudley Field II, they practiced law together until 1848 when he went west to California in the Gold Rush. There his legal practice boomed and he was elected alcalde, a form of mayor and justice of the peace under the old Mexican rule of law, of Marysville. Because the Gold Rush city could afford no jail, and it cost too much to transport prisoners to San Francisco, Field implemented the whipping post, believing that without such a brutal implement many in the rough and tumble city would be hanged for minor crimes.
Justice Stephen Johnson Field cited Jefferson’s Letter to the Danbury Baptists to state that “Congress was deprived of all legislative power over mere opinion, but was left free to reach actions which were in violation of social duties or subversive of good order.”[19] Considering this, the court ruled that outlawing polygamy was constitutional
…and this one even mentions the constitution so I feel I MUST repost it here! ok, this should be it for tonight
“the speech “act,” the dream “act,” and activism
Submitted by presentpeace on Sat, 03/29/2008 – 11:51.
You say it so well, C.Y. Still, I feel moved to put my two cents in just so there is another perspective that may help people understand a bit more about how this whole dreaming the world into being works. For those who use little more than the rational mind to conceive the world, what is being discussed here makes no sense. It’s as if we’re asking people to look at a magic eye picture. It’s a question of soft focus, which is something that not everyone is able to achieve. For those who believe that the world is concrete, that what you see is what you get, rather than the reverse, they can only see the fractalesque squiggles on the canvas and think that everyone is lying about seeing a dolphin splashing about.
Re-membering the world is a kind of magic, a kind of alchemy, that must first occur inside the heart and be assisted by the mind and spirit. If we can expand our vision of things, of concepts, in a kind of soft focus way that allows for more definitions of things, more possibilities of them, then we can understand change, activism, in the same way that we understand involuntary motions of the body, such as scratching an itch, that have been repeated so often since infancy when we learned our motor skills that they occur almost purely by intention now. How many of us have driven home from work and not remembered the route? We’ve come home so many times that we don’t have to think about how to put the key in the ignition, how to press pedals, how to stop at lights, where to turn. It’s automatic, as if in a dream we’re having. We got home purely because we wanted to…and that wanting is so strong that it drives the body to create the situation of us getting there.
That’s the mechanism of activism. Because the desire of the activist to “act” is so strong and is based on such a strong belief that action changes things, it produces their own actions, which draw like-minded people to them. If the group’s strong desire reaches an internal critical mass and their personal actions, combined with those of others, also reach a critical mass, then the world does change to fit the dream, moving from an intention or dream act to a speech act to reality. It’s about dreaming harder, pushing our way through the slag of old paradigms together, reaching a critical mass with other like-minded people so that the new dream can dissolve the old ones. That’s what change really is. The dream starts it all.
How can anyone who lives in the U.S. under this dream of a constitution that we have, which was produced against such massive odds doubt the factual nature of this process of dreaming things into being?
And by the way, things happen to people. Victimhood, however, is a mentality that depletes personal power. A responsible person would not suggest that someone is a victim because that meme keeps people down and denies their power to change their own lives for the better by creating a new story for themselves. It keeps them from the important work of the now, where they always have the power to change things, by keeping them stuck in the past.
I’ve had several things happen to me; but I still have the power to dream things into being. No one can take my now away from me. So, I’ll never be a victim. I am the magician. I am the alchemist. I am the transformer of my life, and an actor in this world. As long as I exude the confidence of these things that I am, they affect how people see and treat me…and I become these things in other people’s minds. Then they reinforce them in reality. Isn’t that what we mean when we speak of the world? Isn’t the world the people in it? Because I believe I’m strong, I project strength into the world. Then people talk about how strong I am and I get respect. Because of the respect I get good things start coming my way. It all starts with my dreaming myself into being.
As far as dreaming others into being, that can work, too. American Idol. I’ve told people that they’re beautiful so that they can feel that way. If enough people tell you something about yourself, positive or negative, they can wear away your layers of disbelief.
As a result of the very unusual time we are in and the press of dreaming that is happening, the veil between dreaming and action is very thin now. We can take advantage of this time and use it to change the world for the better by changing how we see it (see the dolphin in the waves) and, therefore, act in it, or we can keep looking at the picture the way we have all along, thinking that we are really activists when we actually believe that there’s nothing we can do because it is what it is, which has nothing to do with how we conceive it in our dreams. So it’s out of our hands. What’s the point of being an activist if you really can’t believe in your own dreams of change?
‘Nuff said.”
lauralupa:
“I, too, am changing my very painful story each day, dreaming it into the glorious existence that is also a tool for healing not only myself but others.”
RRRRibbit
great posts here, thanks whalerider, laura, rvm,
traveler 211, very convincing, good script direction for satire/play… not that it would interest anybody, outside of a small circle of friends… or you could package it and go into the charlatan biz :~}.
Mel thanks, I agree with elena, you are the best news we’ve had around here in a while. Elena 212 “Recovering takes a long time. I’ve been out for a year and I’m not even close to feeling that it has cleared out of my system. By the presence of so many that have been out for over twenty years you can tell how affected they are.”
I should be offended…
“…owe me nothing, all the world is green”
LTA
Oh Ton, it wasn’t meant as an offense but you are very dedicated people to be here after twenty years! How do you ever manage that if not because it marked you tremendously?
I realize that in many ways it no longer matters. Here and now is another story. Our story! Not Roberts.
Hey Ton, here’s an intense one for you!
Laura this is fun, no wonder you like it. It’s the first time I play with this youtube thing!
Here’s a classic! We too grew up with this music!
On the last part of your last post, it is all good and great for the individual to feel good and great but it is no less good and great for the community to be good and great with its individuals.
ltya
One last one for the joy of it!
If you haven’t watched Carlos Saura’s “Carmen”, please have the pleasure!
I recently discovered the FoF Discussion Blog and am so grateful for the many wonderful and thoughtful posts. I realize that things can get ‘heated’ sometimes but the discussion here is basically so profound and sincere that a little bit of ‘friction’ is not a bad thing. It is especially uplifting to see so many ‘graduates’ with such courage and wisdom. The world out here is a bit messy….especially when the answers are no longer delivered via lightening bolt directly from RB’s pulpit. Strangely…I used to find that so comforting. It feels great not to have to think for yourself anymore doesn’t it? I want to take the blue pill..oh God I want to take the blue pill and have that steak and glass of wine. I miss Stella too..she used to really give me fits (of joy mainly) years after we left the FoF and were in regular contact. I remember once asking Stella about the 44 Angels and how all these weird and synchronous events would occur featuring the number 44. This persisted for me after I left the FoF and even to this day. ‘How” I asked Stella “could this be? Doesn’t this pattern of coincidences indicate something about the FoF and its legitimacy as a real school? She laughed and suggested that maybe a higher force was real but the FoF certainly was not? We had a wonderful center in DC and I miss all my old Friends.
Thanks again to those who created this blog and who maintain it.
When I switched web pages after my post above. I went to a page with this story on it.
“SPRINGVILLE, Ala. — The driver of a bus carrying 44 children on a field trip passed out at the wheel, and a teacher’s quick actions kept the vehicle from careening into oncoming traffic, students said.”
My comment:
All in all….God’s work on Earth must truly be our own.
Traveler, yet another ‘omen’ from the gods:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/743469.stm
“Texas-based Celestis has already sent the remains of 100 people into Earth orbit, but now claims it will drop ashes on to the lunar surface.
“The company says it is negotiating with commercial firms who are planning missions to the Moon. These may occur in the next two or three years and the ashes would be carried on board as cargo.
“The first person to be laid to rest using this service will be Mareta West, the geologist who picked the site for the 1969 Apollo 11 Moon landing. She died in 1998.”
——————-
Anyway, I always thought Apollo was an interesting choice of names by Burton for the Fellowship of Friends community, given his fascination with the Moon, and his untiring effort to frighten his followers from the very healthy impulse to leave the Fellowship.
You’d think a man who is so fascinated by such coincidences would think twice about calling the place Apollo because of the name’s historical connection to the Moon landings.
Yes, I realize someone might respond by saying that Burton “isn’t logical” — but I think he’s sometimes very logical and very calculating in his choice of words, whether it appears logical or not. Every name change has a reason that’s not conveyed to most of his followers:
Mount Carmel
Via Del Sol
Renaissance
Apollo
Isis
and back to Apollo
Did I miss any?
And by the way, it the name “Las Vegas” next?
I recall in my studies about King Louis XIV (who, by the way, is truly “working with” Robert Burton — NOT Leonardo), that gambling with cards became a part of the culture at Versailles. Hmm. Is that next? The Fellowship of Friends applying for status as an Indian reservation? And starting a casino resort?
Sorry for the rambling, folks, but is it really anymore absurd than what has happened so far?
Does anyone see the uncanny similarities between Las Vegas, and Versailles, and “Apollo”?
Not Las Vegas; ‘lost wages.’ As in: Paid way too much for this experience!
NEWS ALERT !!!!
Important scientific revelations!
Geologists and meterologists have just yesterday made a startling discovery that will change life on the planet earth forever.
Events such as earthquakes, forest fires, floods and hurricanes once thought to be the result of complex systems interacting in a chaotic manner over time have now been found to come from a single source.
This source has been identified. Robert Burton and a group of his airy-fairy friends. Thorough imperical investigation has revealed that these catastophic events only occur whenever mr. Burton is in a particular location and they occur only so he can have a story to tell his knuckleheaded
followers getting tipsy at dinner preparing to blow each other.
Scientists conclude that the best way to remedy these disasters is to get mr. Burton the fuck off the planet.
It was also observed that sometimes there were rain showers, occasional wind gusts and assorted strange license plate sightings near knuckleheads separate from mr. Burton but these are expected to clear up upon his departure.
Members of the “inner circle,” anyone ever in the Fellowship with a capacity for creative intelligence, have already left the Fellowship of Friends. What is left behind now is the “inner psycho,” the toughened psychotics that are impervious to reason, insight and consciousness. Those that experienced degrees of higher consciousness in the FOF did so in spite of the “teaching” imposed in that organization. Particularly the development of even a modest amount of consciousness is one sure way to escape the clique of psychological dregs collected around Burton. This is the first sign of any development of higher consciousness in the FOF, the compelling urge to get away from the depraved atmosphere. To remain in the FOF requires an actual diminishment of consciousness. The Fellowship has acquired a especially false collective ego that demands the payment of choosing a side, choosing the heinous spy-on-the-other-members and report-to-Robert obsession that rules those “in the inner circle” over the simple principles of human wholesomeness.
For a clear example of the effects of Burton’s teaching take a look at Girard Haven. Here is the one fool simple-minded and tedious enough to enthusiastically do everything Burton said to do. Obstinately proud, as inflexibly dogmatic as a man can possibly become, apparently incapable of sustaining a normal relationship other than under an illusionary arrangement of “I’m the expert and you are the apprentice,” as blindly devoted to Burton as any cult zealot ever was to any other cult leader in history, I defy anyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence to read the many hundreds of pages Haven has published and find anything in it of substantial value. Every sentence is slanted toward developing the handicap of a rigid, dull cult mentality and using such indoctrination to stay in the cult regardless and against the little native intelligence each human being is born with. Published as indications on how to wake up, the words of the author are a chilling account of how to venture far deeper into illusion than the worst uninformed neurotic at large in society. Haven’s books will eventually become notorious exhibits cited in medical journals as the quintessential cult brainwashing manual.
What the “inner psycho” encrusted around Burton get for their money is a relentless emotional pump in the form of Burton himself, perpetually inflating the collective Fellowship ego using the worn to death motif of “look how the Gods lavish their attention on us.” This is what these demented fools continue to buy, “C influence is exclusively our team mascot.” That this continues under Burton’s erroneous sense of entitlement of having the benefit of higher consciousness, having been beaten to the point of hospitalization by the sadistic psychopath Alex Horn, is not surprising considering that at one point even Hitler’s SS commander Himmler believed he was a beneficiary of spiritual enlightenment. With Alex Horn and Robert Burton the ideas of the Fourth Way not only become their opposite, but actually enter a new dimension of unintended reversal of the original purpose.
229
re: apollo
232 hardtruth
Greg
This guy (gal?) could paint over the ceilings of the ‘galleria’. No scaffolding needed…
opus.235
thanks thats one of the most wonderful things I’ve seen recently.
Thats why i’m a vegetarian.
jx
Uno 115, whalerider 170, innernaut, arthur, elena 226 and all others interested, while we’re still on the same page, re: the subject of opening doors through “plant teachers” as they’ve been called — ie: shamanism, etc… Brazil, and peru sound wonderfully exotic but I can’t afford it now. I have a decent harvest of san pedro cactus, enough for several doses, a quantity of dried salvia and desmanthus illinoesis, aka “illinois bundleweed.” I may still have some hawaiian woodrose seed, morning glory seed and syrian rue, but i’ll have to look for it. Nevertheless this sort of thing is not hard to come by (syrian rue when combined with desmanthus illinoesis forms an “ayahuasca anolog” — as you may know). The aforementioned plant materials are all, as of yet, still “legal substances” in the USA (as far as I know — you might want to check). Here’s a zany idea — in a prearranged place somewhere in the western U.S, using the aforementioned substances, to hold a “tea cermony.” I’m thinking sometime during july or august 2008. I can’t do Burning Man, don’t especially care to…. I’m not “californian” (I ‘m part Cherokee on my mother’s side — does that count?) I don’t claim to be an “initiate” — so take this for what it’s worth. Just an idea.
This might serve as a “mission statement”
“… a conscious return to collectivism where individuated, or self-actualised, individuals voluntarily – and temporarily – pool their consciousness in a search for the elusive collective intelligence which can help us to overcome the stupendous challenges now facing us as a species as a consequence of how our developmental trajectory has manifested on the physical plane thus far.” 169 laura thanks for the quote
‘ton:
Thank you, ton, for your offer and idea. I do believe you are sincere. If you don’t mind, I’d like to dialog with you about what insights or understandings you (or anyone) are expecting a ‘plant teacher’ would give you at this stage of your life. (You and I have been around the block a few times more than we’d like to admit, I am sure.)
I think we’d agree that the messages the plant teachers have to offer are symbolic, right? I mean, taking a hallucinogen is not like reading a book, is it? Instead of words, thoughts, and ideas, a plant teacher is going to fill your mind with images and your body with sensations and feelings, yes?
So for discussion sake, let’s put ourselves in the place of the plant. What processes that would be deeply ingrained in a plant’s being could a plant share with us?
If I were a plant teacher and I were ingested by the most dangerous species to ever walk the earth, gee…what lesson would I want that human being to have?
If that human being was feeling dispirited and disconnected, looking for a transcendent, “experiential learning” process to help them retrieve their spirit and feel connected, then IMO, the most profound lesson that I, as a plant would want such a being to understand is the process of symbiosis in the web of life….that we are all connected. By taking care of me, I will take care of you and we both will evolve.
I would imagine a plant teacher would show one (as I have experienced with holotropic breathing) that since humans are at the top of the food chain, that our bodies are comprised of molecules of all other beings on the planet, that we all share the same DNA helix structure…that plants and animal ‘spirits’ live within us because they are part of our bodies…that the living force of nature is composed of light and electricity, and that that divine energy exisits, radiating among all living beings…cell, plant, fish, or animal. And that death and destruction are part of the cycle of life…wouldn’t such an experience give one a healthy respect for life, how we walk the planet and how we interact with each other? Is that what you are looking for?
Or maybe you are just suggesting with your idea that we humans are forgetful, and even though we have this knowledge, we need to be reminded of these truths, experientially? And plant teachers are here to remind us…
…maybe if we really wanted to have a positive effect on the planet and humanity, we should invite Bill Gates, and the CEO’s of Exxon and Wal-Mart to join us?
Whalerider 238 thanks for your thoughtful response and the offer to dialog. As for the “sincerity” factor (aside from a bit of tongue-in-cheek), that’s not entirely up to me, in some way it depends upon the response here. I put it out there as a “zany” idea and it may be that the dialog is the end result, I think the dialoging would be as important if not moreso than actual participation in a “tea ceremony.”
You write: I think we’d agree that the messages the plant teachers have to offer are symbolic, right?”
I don’t know if I completely agree with this statement. Maybe in as much as communication in whatever form involves a process of abstraction and interpretation, the messages conveyed in the process can be seen as “symbolic.” Even “reading a book” (no it’s definitely not like reading a book) involves a process of symbolic transformation — through a symbolic process these curved and straight lines form meaning… it’s amazing if you stop to consider! The effect of an encounter with these substances is actual experience and in that sense goes beyond the “merely symbolic.” (not that the “symbolic” isn’t important — it is of course).
“If I were a plant teacher and I were ingested by the most dangerous species to ever walk the earth, gee…what lesson would I want that human being to have?”
I would agree that there is an element of danger involved in what I suggested here and looked at from one angle the planetary biota has a score to settle with the humans. The danger is real as it is in many potentially transformative situations. There are certainly safer ways to approach gnosis; breathwork is one…. I am not advocating one way over another, to each their own…
I would agree with you that there is some question as to what, at this stage in life we might hope to gain from “tripping” it does seem a bit like something we did in highschool…. so that’s why they called it “highschool”! Afterall, many of know what it’s about… although each experience can bring new insights. Maybe it is simply about the dialog…
Gotta go, thanks again for responding.
P.S. do you have Bill Gates email address?
:~)
previous post should read: …many of us here know what it’s about…”
and now for something completely different… and then I really gotta go:
this gets more interesting…
Hello ton and Whalerider ~
‘ton’, I promise that I will respond to your idea a bit more after a time, just not now… Though just a memo here; ayahuasca is not like going down an taking some Flying Rhinos or mushrooms… There’s no ‘trip’ involved. Since you’re part Cherokee, IMO, it does count (sorta), yet if I was part Cherokee I would find out what’s closer to their sister-grandmother-plant, I would suspect it to be peyote;
yet try to contact the below mentioned church.
_____________________
Ayahuasca (is) in the United States and the people using it won their case with the Supreme Court;
Look up the ~
Santo Daime Church ~
via Wikipedia
_______________________
And do not worry, there’s no ego in the world that will ever wrap itself around this plant spirit’s virtues and intent. And it’s not about showing you what you want to see or working with dream-scape’s and the symbolic world… The reality of the lessons taught are the deepest and most emotional resonating ‘pangs’ to one’s consciousness and conscience that existence on this planet has to offer; and yes, there’s other methods to get to similar doorways, the Tibetans for instance.
_______________________
As for ayahuasca in California, this sentient being’s already under your feet and in the sky ~
“The use of entiongenous has been extended from South America to Europe through its religious movements which openly and without restrictions practice their religion known as Church of Santo Daime. They are known as “daimistas”. Also towards north, in California, USA, there exist plantations of this vine to produce Ayahuasca.”
You can also look on ~ wasai(dot)com(forward slash)ayahuasca(dot)htm.
And there are the books ~ I would recommend to you the following ~
Iboga by Vincent Ravalec
Yage by Jimmy Weiskopf
Ayahuasca by Joan Wilcox
_______________________________
Hello Whalerider ~
No offense my friend, though I must say that your post on Plant Spirits is a bit imaginary, really; I wish I could show you… Truly Whalerider its really nothing like what you describe, it’s a complete 360 degree turn from what all people ‘think’ when they hear about the first impressions of ayahuasca; do some deep research… I think Iboga will be of interest as well to your profession.
I could write a book here… It’s not a drug and it’s not a trip: it’s a medicine and a doorway and you’ll not really understand (if you wish to) until your life is changed forever by a session.
Ayahuasca will never be used as a recreational drug; it’s a sentient being and always gets it’s way, not the ego’s. Just as what’s seen and experienced as real on top of the carpet, so is it the same beneath the carpet.
For many, taking ayahuasca or iboga only once is enough to last a lifetime.
There are videos on Iboga and Ayahuasca on Youtube.
_________________________
L.t.y.a.
This internet, you tube thing is amazing! It is as if the akasic records had been made accessible to us and we could remember, reconnect, compose things about our and mankind’s life that had not been even meagerly grasped. Being able to check into things and people that have touched me over the years but who I had never even seen is as if their “lives” were being “given” to me in one song, one view. I had never really seen Joe Cocker playing “With a little help from my friends” but that is happening with so many other people. It is as if having access to something like the akasic records en masse were an aspect of the “being” of humans today. As if a huge jump were possible, en masse. Suddenly, we all count; we can all count. The issue then becomes not just who can talk but who can listen.
_________Opus 111 – That WAS beautiful, so many thanks. I didn’t know!
_________Ton, I accept unconditionally!!! Not true! I’d have to know a lot before trying anything again. The real problem for me is that after years of trying and taking things and never becoming an addict as such, I realized every one of those things were living on my own life energy, being. They take you high but overcoming them takes time, they “live on one’s I” and leave it rather depressed. I’ve seen myself and many other people recovering from years of taking things and it is dramatic. The recovery is so slow and as Veronicapoe said on relationships, it never quite mends. It is a good thing that friction is necessary to unravel the diamond.
But if you’re close to San Francisco I would invite you gladly. I’m starving for human contact! People to sit around with and take my younger daughter to, who I’ve been struggling to recover for years and finally have the opportunity to live with at least in the same city. She needs references. She needs to know that all these years of abandonment weren’t totally useless, that someone and something survived, if not us. She’s been so disillusioned by me that I barely count. The people she was with turned her against me because I was in a Cult, amongst other things. And now that I’ve left the Cult, they seem even more right!! That is changing but it would be wonderful to be with other people. After so many years of the DEAD CONTACT in the Fellowship of Friends, just being with other people in a friendly situation has the effect of recomposing the inner fibers of our being. What could it have been like to people in concentration camps?
________Beautiful description of where plants would like to take us Whalerider. All that and without words! Like a direct shot from the being of the plant world on the being of the human world. We might not be the plant to convey those messages but we can inspire them eventually.
_______
We’ve much dealt on the reasons why the Fellowship failed but yesterday I found myself using one of Robert’s exercises to convey an understanding and then tried to get an insight into what worked. The picture of the Fellowship of Friends won’t be even close unless we look into what worked.
As far as I understand today, self remembering works, alchemy works, exercises work, the king of hearts works, everything in fact worked only it worked to develop Robert’s lifestyle and not the student’s being into conscious evolution.
It is very interesting to grasp the contrasts even slightly as I do, because the problem is not that what Robert offers doesn’t work, the problem is that it does work. It may not make people more conscious but it does make them more physical, it sucks them into matter, locks them into it, not consciousness. It is because the tools in themselves work that he can actually manage this. The idea of black magic or a descending octave flourishing wildly is not at all outrageous in this context.
The following is a very gross survey of things in my mind but please take them as a first step to our ongoing exploration.
Let’s take a look at some of Robert Burton’s practices:
Physical exercises still current a year ago: keep your feet on the ground, fold the napkin, move, feel, think, eat, speak intentionally, don’t laugh.
Be in the king of hearts.
Be present at all times.
So what I would do and think I could say, WE would do is TRY to THINK about ourselves all the time; be self conscious not conscious, which is one of the reasons we go around looking so tense, for who doesn’t look tense in the Fellowship of Friends?
It is as if, the fact that he takes the king of hearts and makes it the only aim, the only position and situation to ever be in, to become frozen in, develops in that horrendous rigidity of the Fellowship of Friends. It is not surprising really when one realizes that that is exactly what he did. He freezes our being into a King of Hearts act that will for ever condescend to his presence!. If one does not condescend then one is not present, one is not in one’s king of hearts.
He literally freezes us into the king of hearts of the Fellowship of Friends act and separates us from:
Our personal history,
Our families
Our nations
Our instinctive centre: the body is a machine, mechanical, it just works, lives and dies, and is an obstacle to awakening, the king of clubs, your worst enemy. (Who cares if it is raped, used, sucked, peed on, it is only the body anyway)
Our emotional-intelectual centre: Your emotions belong to the lower emotional centre. Don’t talk about yourself, your family or other people. Love quotes from conscious men. Don’t waste time in unnecessary talk.
Unnecessary talk = talking about yourself, your feelings, your thoughts, your family, friends, the school, etc. (Connecting to yourself through your centers is unnecessary)
This is what I am trying to get to. What works is that he connects students to their King of Hearts and its conditioned behavior and disconnects us from all our other centers in such a way that he carefully sculpts the stereotype good student act and annihilates the rest of the person, achieving a massive king of hearts act from all the students.
This is why we are being and have been so damaged. Recovering from this experience must necessarily take into account that all our centers have been hurt and the damage to the king of hearts itself is no less dramatic because while everything is right about being in the king of hearts, there is no reason to be in the king of hearts in the Fellowship of Friends to support Robert’s tantamount abuses. Girard rationalizes all this only under the presumption that Robert Burton is a divine conscious being.
It is incredibly ironic because what they have done is make people run a race against themselves to “act consciously” rather than “consciously develop”. A race in which the king of hearts act is forced on the students, not developed in them through conscious understanding of our lives. They say “this is what you look like when you are conscious, hence, look like that whether you are or not.” And everyone puts on his silk dress and strolls like a butterfly around the galleria! Then goes home, feels like shit and thinks: “I need to keep wearing the silk dress because this shit I feel must mean that I am far from consciousness.” “I need to keep going back to the Fellowship and showing Robert and the rest how worthy and beautiful and hardworking I am so that they all value me, specially Robert”
All we wanted was to be valued by our community and by systematically denying us that, Robert guarantees himself with an indefinite supply of people willing to work to death, desperate to be valued by what they think is a divine conscious being and a conscious community.
How much more sickening could the figure be?
Dear unoanimo:
You are the sentient being.
Whalerider:
It takes one to know one.
unoanimo:
You bring up an interesting point. If it takes one to know one, then it takes a conscious being to know a conscious being. All this crap about the lower cannot see the higher is just that, crap. If you buy into it, as FOF followers do, you buy into being on the lower side of the equation; otherwise it would not be an issue.
IMO, the higher level of being sees everyone as equals, (even sociopaths who need to be confronted and humanely contained. A person with unhealthy narcissism would relish the higher-lower hierarchy.)
Hello Whalerider ~
I am not sure where you’re going with my six words, it was just a friendly acknowledging that we are all sentient beings and it was good to get a healing response from you; I was trying to return the gesture, like when two people hug… Have you ever hugged someone who suddenly did not hug back? It’s one of the most weird sensations…
I was not trying to make a point; it seems that you’re taking my phrase and spinning on it a bit, let off the brake Whalerider, those thirty inch Pirelli’s won’t last forever or will they?
:.)
unoanimo 246
” Have you ever hugged someone who suddenly did not hug back? It’s one of the most weird sensations…”
Yep, Robert Burton
I thought he was either packing a gun and didn’t want us to know about it or he was wearing a flack jacket beneath the way oversized suit. Either way or any other way, I am grateful now.
Opus/Jack
Yup really liked that. That took quite a bit of attention from the big fella, more attention than I’ve got when trying to draw anything. I really liked the way he re-traced his lines as if he didn’t think they were bold enough!
Not sure I would give up eating steak though Jack.
Allan.
Elena thanks for assessing, since you’ve relatively recently left the fellowship of friends, your perspective is fresher, and appreciated.
You write:
“The idea of black magic…. is not at all outrageous…”
That’s exactly what it is… granted, there is much more evil shit being perpetrated on the planet, but “conscious” bob’s operation is definitely in the dark grey spectrum of things.
you write:
“Physical exercises still current a year ago: keep your feet on the ground, fold the napkin, move, feel, think, eat, speak intentionally, don’t laugh.”
All these silly exercises were taken so seriously, afterall it IS “the word of god” or at least “higher influences” (for Robert Burton, we know what the “C” in “c-influence” stands for). It’s all mind control made more effective by connection of verbal suggestion to a physical activity — it’s an old trick used in hypnotism… your eyelids are getting heavy, your eyes are closing and so on. some might argue that thinking is not “a physical activity”.
The saddest thing on your list here, and maybe the single most damaging to those who “practice” this nonsense is the exercise of “don’t laugh”– laughter, deep belly-chest convulsing laughter has a great natural healing effect. I left a while back and don’t remember “don’t laugh” as an “exercise” per se (I could be wrong, it’s been a long time). nevertheless the place was overall, pretty grim, I think the euphemism used was “monastic” (I associate monasticism and humorlessness… maybe that’s a misconception, if so I don’t mean to malign the monastic tradition by comparing it with the fellowship of friends). When I moved to the ranch circa 1977-78, I remember there was a coin operated bottled beverage dispenser on the back deck of the Lincoln Lodge, it was stocked with cold beer. On a hot day in the vineyard, guess where we took our breaks? I guess with an eye toward increasing productivity, the beverage machine was later restocked with caffeinated soda… now in hindsight I see it was “all downhill from there” as they say. The beverage machine was later replaced by coffee and food, we could go to the lodge and stuff-it good on leftover food…. while “self-remembering” of course…
you write:
“… he carefully sculpts the stereotype good student act and annihilates the rest of the person…”
A real teacher would teach the student to be who they are, that’s “self-realization.” what you describe here is an act of “vampirism” sans blood — or some other type of parasitic behavior, call it what you will.
you write:
“WE would… TRY to THINK about ourselves all the time; be self conscious not conscious,”
How CRAZY is this?!?!!!?
you write:
“Girard rationalizes all this only under the presumption that Robert Burton is a divine conscious being.”
Please stop making excuses for him, if there is any sort of “divine justice” that oversees this stage we’re all on, he has his own hell to pay… if there is no such thing as justice in the hereafter, then he’s in hell now, the problem is he doesn’t know it. That goes for his puppet-master too.
http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=fRkp2hGOk5E&feature=related
ton (237),
I read your “zany” proposal and the first thought that came to mind was, “wait before you answer”. Then I read Whalerider’s response and the thought came, “wait a bit longer”.
So, I went to the grocery store and ran into an old next door neighbor. We see each other maybe once every two years.
I asked him what he was doing and he said going to work. I asked where and he said out in the brush drilling for oil. I then asked if he saw “plant teachers” near the rig and he answered, “they are everywhere”. amazing coincidence.
I had to go to court and was fined without a payment plan so everything in my life is set back. Shaman’s garden, fence for the dogs, and zany ideas. But, boy it sure was an attractive offer.
Unoanimo (241),
Actually, in retrospect, I think I was waiting for you to show up. Because I have no experience with South American types.
How to write “w—-(.) com (FORWARD SLASH)? Forward slash is a foreign concept to me. Thanks for the help.
The Teachers’ Aim.
I bring you my music,
My carefully sculpted song,
I bring you the fibers
Of my worked out soul
Not your music or your song,
Not the fibers of your soul.
I bring you my head,
My life’s work
My love,
I bring you all
Not your head or your work,
Not your love, none at all.
I bring you the light
That fell from the stars
The sound of the rain
on the doorstep
I bring you myself,
This bridge,
this chord.
Not the light or the stars,
No sound of yourself
No being
no chord
leave me your flesh and
go.
_____
The scent of flesh.
Dig deep, keep digging
The diamond ring
The Gods hid it beneath.
No one will understand what happened
Until they can see beneath the earthquake’s debris,
The sweet scent of flesh.
Pink, tender flesh
Offered with joy
“I am Sir, I am”.
What shame!
They walk down the road hiding their shame
The pink tender flesh
they offered so long.
No one will know
Until they’ve walked
Through the Snow,
Shame does not go
Beyond one’s soul.
To run like a shot
Begging for love
And stand like
A fork
To turn on one’s own-
Then you can know.
There is no purpose in running
But running itself is the purpose
One does not learn from the aim,
But from the struggle to aim,
From the pain.
Once under
You stand,
The world goes inside out
You turn upside down.
Your head’s found the ground
Swirl, swirl, the diamond whirls
the constellation’s whim.
Constellations
Each long day
There is a pattern in the stars
That lends itself to be
Or to let it be
Each short week
Brings its own taste
Rests to its own toil
Creates its own force
Moved by these waves
Like algae in the Ocean front,
we rest low
we break forth.
The old sit quietly
in their last secret dialogue
with the constellations.
uno, thanks for the reading suggestions, here’s a good one: PLANTS OF THE GODS: THEIR SACRED, HEALING AND HALLUCIOGENIC POWERS by richard schultes and albert hofmann. i somewhat flippantly trotted off a list of plant materials that are used for certain purposes. i meant no disrespect to plant / person… each is of course unique. i guess part of my point was that this “path” is readily accessible, one need not travel to brazil or peru. you write: “As for ayahuasca… this sentient being’s already under your feet and in the sky.” Arthur put it this way: “I then asked if he saw “plant teachers” near the rig and he answered, “they are everywhere”.
a “heroic dose” of morning glory seed or mushrooms is quite effective in “making contact.” ya I’m familiar with the santo daime church… The Peyote Way Church Of God near flagstaff az offers a “spiritwalk” — but for a fee. I’ve been interested in ibogain for some time now, what do they call the experience? “breaking open the head” (that would tend to put more emphasis on the heart). I’ve read accounts of it’s use in the treatment of addiction. I suppose were I to invest in a “real” adventure, africa would be an interesting place to visit.
http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/iboga-tourism.htm
uh oh, another wave of nostalgia,
i due hope it doesn’t create nausea
but by now
you probably know what to expect,
so it’s your own falt
if you clickonit.
“Girard rationalizes all this only under the presumption that Robert Burton is a divine conscious being.”
Please stop making excuses for him, if there is any sort of “divine justice” that oversees this stage we’re all on, he has his own hell to pay… if there is no such thing as justice in the hereafter, then he’s in hell now, the problem is he doesn’t know it. That goes for his puppet-master too.
It’s no excuse Ton, this is not what I am trying or have been trying to do at all: it is a fact. The Fact! If someone like Girard Haven, the honest, sound, reasonable, hard working Girard with a ph.d in mathematics believes that Robert Burton is a conscious being why would you not? I not? And if he rationalizes everything for everybody else, then you stick it out for another week, maybe another year until he comes back to your center for another visit.
I am certainly not trying to find excuses for Girard, you think I would have left him if I could have found any? But love is not bound to excuses. I recently found a card that said,
“love comes when one sees an imperfect man, perfectly”.
We are all Girards and Roberts in different degrees, but that is also no excuse! Close down the Fellowship of Friends or the Fellowship of Friends will be closed down.
elena 255
sounds like u r “still-in-love”
as they say.
Ton, I find it very interesting that you would deduce that from my writings. If I had not loved Girard I would not have married him. To love and to be in love are different things. I sincerely believe Girard and Robert have divided into two different people. They think they are sincere. When you look close up into these lives what is truly tragic is to realize that time is a factor. I believe that if they were seriously shocked, like put in jail for a couple of years or much better, sent to a tribe in the jungle or something like that, they would still come out of their trance in this lifetime, but left to themselves, they will stay their course and spend lifetimes, if they are lucky, straightening themselves out.
But truly, the subject here is not my love for Girard. What I see more clearly is that for those of you who left fifteen, twenty years ago, you don’t really understand what I am talking about. You have difficulty perceiving the level of madness that was so clear to me. When I say Girard justifies everything with Robert being a conscious being, above anyone of us, who we should kneel down before like dogs, I am not trying to justify or excuse him, I am on the contrary, trying to expose him.
Perhaps you haven’t read all the blog but I have much offended many people for exposing my husband so badly. I think it is necessary. We need to open up. We are all suffocating in this ridiculous suffering. Everyone is sick, lonely and messed up and everyone is pretending we are not. Not only in the Fellowship. There it is more concentrated but the general standards of living are pretty corrupt everywhere. We need to look at it without shame. Deal with it.
I laugh when I see the extremes to which the presidential candidates have to go to, to pretend that they have been like Barbie dolls all their life, have never peed out of the toilet or said a bad word. What kind of world are people pretending to live in? Everyone holding his or her hemorrhages with band-aids.
What is so absurd about our situation is that people are terrified of suffering but most of our suffering is due to our being terrified; a vicious circle in which people turn around the same pole without being able to put themselves in the center and stop. When one goes down the ladder of suffering, one can go only so far. Suffering is not infinite. One stands at the end of that road. There is a whole eternity beyond suffering. That is where one’s life really begins. We live in conditions of suffering, if one wishes to look at it that way, or we live in conditions that need to be worked out. Working out is not suffering. Taking responsibility is a very joyful aspect of being alive. We spend most of our life in shame or trying to hide the shame but no one really knows what it is they are ashamed of. What we are ashamed of is of being nothing more than human beings; of being so simply beautiful; So beautifully naked. Ashamed of tilling the ground, the beautiful earth that generously gives of itself to feed us. Ashamed of these bodies filled with passion, running around getting off on each other, offering ourselves like sheep so that others can eat us. But when we’ve done all that, when we’ve finished raping our own beauty, all we can do is stand there and hold our selves with infinite compassion. Then life begins.
Do you not find it ironic that what we did in the Fellowship of Friends is make up a life so that we didn’t have to deal with the one we had been given? A life in which we lived Robert’s life rather than our own? Organized, institutionalized, worked for, tried to have fun with, no matter how impossible?
The Fellowship of Friends I saw is Robert and Girard’s masterpiece. Horrorpiece. You take two such specific characters and put them to work together and look what we got. It is not surprising that people still inside do not wish to step out of the Fellowship theater and look at the roles they played in that horror story. It is not pleasant to see one’s self walking like a ghost in Robert’s nightmare and Girard’s dream. It is not even surprising that hardly anyone who left recently writes on the blog. You, the one’s that left long ago, can talk about it now but it is not easy for those who left recently.
I probably talk like a lunatic because I was not allowed to talk for so long. No one was. I still throw up quotes from great men that are stuck in my viscera. I still long to be touched by my husband who cannot extend his hand out and touch me with his eyes. He blindly looks at something I cannot see and I am not in his picture while something called love, called sex, called marriage, takes place.
I have no shame. This is our life. Do what you wish with it. I am here to embrace it in the only way I know, which is writing about it. May it help you look at yours without shame.
Hello Arthur ~
Forward slash is right below the (?) mark next to your shift key… Well, at least mine is.
It sounds like you’re in the mid-west; maybe we’ll journey someday to South America together… who knows. Take a look online for people in your area, I think you’ll be surprised to find a shaman in your neighborhood that can assist your direction.
____________________________________________
Hello ton ~
You wrote ~
“a “heroic dose” of morning glory seed or mushrooms is quite effective in “making contact.”…”
______________________________
Well, yes and no; I suppose it depends on what you mean by ‘contact’, if you mean hallucinations and the like, altered reality and third-fourth dimensional shifty-ness, ok…
Though of all the people I know who have moved towards ayahuasca for whatever reason, absolutely no one compares it to mushrooms or any recreational toadstool…
Curiously enough I have met people who have been taking mushrooms for 20 years who will not touch ayahuasca because they ‘feel it’, that is, something in them is reluctant to let something go (to see what the recreation may be hiding) or is simply not at that point yet or will unfold in another medium and way.
It’s possible that mushrooms and philosopher stones have their place in the ritual of that space between physical expression and the astral, but I do not know enough about them to really get into it… I do not do drugs and ayahuasca was my first real ‘medicine’ ever.
IMO, mushrooms and similar creations are candy in Grandma’s apron, yet, Grandma is something totally removed from that particular realm of options and experience… As I was sharing with Whalerider, ayahuasca and iboga are not ‘trips’, it is the Real World as we don’t, used to and can know it… It’s hard for me now to explain, yet, no one can really explain these experiences, because, well, they’re just that, all yours and dedicated to the real dimension of your astral body (soul)…
Take a peek at what iboga seeds look like, I believe you’ll not be surprised, yet, surprised… If you know what I mean.
Yes: iboga is closer than Africa though… Mexico and I believe America has places; yet, IMO, unless you have really big addictions and deep ancestral daemons or ancestral DNA ailments, then, let Grandma massage you a bit before iboga, iboga is not the same as ayahuasca…
______________________
Robert Burton needs iboga. (That’s not meant to be funny.)
______________________
If ayahuasca is the Grandmother, then iboga is Granddad wrapped round Grandmother’s little finger…
Also, do not do ayahuasca alone for the first time, have a friend with you who is open, compassionate and who’s not going to laugh, joke or have no real balls or ovaries about the situation (and) who is not drinking it…
If you do not have such a person (Hey, it’s not completely easy to find them…) then find a local nurse or a holistic practitioner to serve as ‘Sphinx’… The preparation of the mixture itself is an all day process and make sure its fresh, wherever you go…
Ideally a shaman ought to be sought out… Have someone strong and supportive by your side (physically).
It is a sacred process (as you know) and the meeting of a very different type of Lover or Beloved, so, just keep in mind that whatever you think it is, it isn’t and will not be, ever: trust in yourself, your conscience and the desire to love are good meditations, yet, ayahuasca deals with what you really have, so do not be surprised when she touches the privacies beneath the private, it is one of the most intimate and difficult relationship situations, yet an intimacy that’s truly the ‘stuff’ we’re made of…
In my opinion these forces introduce us to the parents and creator-maintainers of life on the planet Earth and they don’t all live on Earth, so, well, be prepared to get in touch with a level of your existence that is concerning Eternity and not left-brain-mortality and The everyday-grind Process of trying to ‘figure it out’;
yes, they’re all inner-locked, relative and love is all; it’s just that we’ve gotten (or simply are) a bit lost in sensing how to prioritize our inner dimension: but Grandma unravels them very easily (so far as her interests are concerned) and teaches you the relativity of a level of conscience that only going forwards on the path is dedicated to…
Yes, other practices can move you along, I guess it just depends on your particular constitution and what works for you; see, I am possessed by the spirit of a hard ass, stubborn, willful and a very stoic thingy…
At a deeper level I did not trust people ‘period’, so, when I found myself at the bottom of my barrel recently, I sought out the only sort of phenomenon I resonated with, a shaman… Someone who I knew was a servant of something greater teaching him or her how to become greater at being themselves and facilitating others to join in the same, etc, etc.
Though, in all honesty, it was the ‘something’ that moved into my heart and called to me.
I have meet many people who drink ayahuasca, they all say things like, “We are acting as our own shamans”, “I am working on myself”, “I am becoming more conscious of my own shit”… Sound’s familiar yes?
Yet, it isn’t; to me, if there was ever a real Fourth Way School, they assimilated such substances and could since ayahuasca is not harmful to the body and not addictive or destructive otherwise… or they had body-techniques adopted from the other three ways, so as to be able to call itself ‘four’ right? It makes sense (now) that the number ‘4’ would respect 1, 2 and 3… Only somewhere things got muddled and the objective axis was broken and people started following people and not themselves directed by the celestial within and elsewhere, IMO. And ‘4’ became too much itself, the Night of the Walking 4-Dead…
Iboga: if you go to Gabon (the bwiti-ngenza), pack a lunch, you’ll be there awhile, it’s not like the sit-down of ayahuasca: it’s an initiation and the whole village becomes your family and they participate in your process… I have not locked pinkies with Grandma yet on this one, though I might… Things are still unfolding for me and well, who knows…
My heart-intuition tells me that now the most important thing is not necessarily the plant spirits and ‘The Door’ or even ‘The Dimension’ or ‘The Immortal Soul’ per se, it’s taking the lessons it teaches and assimilating them, going deeper and deeper into what I really have, how am I really and what are my absolute qualities outside being an incarnation inside a human being’s body, which IMO, we all are in some form or another… To use the lessons of the human condition I am in and grow, grow, grow… Like a plant… LOL.
It could very well be that Earth (is) the Purgatory Gurdjieff speaks of, though not only for one kind of soul, that many different ‘species’ of beings from all over the universe are embodied inside one common ‘human, animal form’ here: this would explain allot of what’s going on down here… (unfinished thought for sure)…
I do not mean the Christian or Buddhist versions, just that I feel it’s more subtle than ‘Crime and Punishment or Gone With the Wind’ and more complex, fairy tale-ish and philosophical than the ‘eye for an eye’ stage…
To me the Earth seems like a project and not a product; the left side of the brain wants a ‘product’; this is how it is, IMO, that religion is dead now for the most part, it has been assimilated into the everyday, external, affirmative life-symbolic: in the exact opposite direction to where it came from and where it innately points.
A South America shaman once said, “We do not have a religion, we drink ayahuasca.”
Truly, IMO, religion does not exist; it only exists outside ourselves because we have yet to meet the real one within ourselves; the world religions, IMO, are mirrors slightly tilted to the left or right of their viewer… If they do not include direct access to the spiritual dimension, then, well, it is exactly what one needs, yet, not necessarily the whole story like so many of them seem to be trying to traumatically convince themselves of…
To me, the Fellowship of Friends was similar to going to church towards the end of my stay there; when Robert Burton’s inner condition worsened, he broke out (or his trauma came out of the closet and into the house), like a plague upon himself in the broader External World, which (with all due respect) was a kind of mirror in many ways being given to himself by others, yet, itself being an unsuspecting shinny thing as to what it would be carved thereon itself by a big diamond cutter…
All the sex energy atmosphere surrounding and protecting the revelation and lifestyles of his traumas finally broke its back swallowing its own tail and began swallowing others (for the sake and expression of their traumas as well, curiously enough)…
It’s a very tough situation there in Oregon House and I really hope this blog is helping people explore not their external options only, rather their internal ones first…
_________________
L.t.y.a.
Hi folks
underneath is an article pasted from the BBC.
It isn’t an april fools joke unfortunately.
“Russian cult members ‘leave cave’
Some women cult members left the cave at the weekend
Fourteen members of a doomsday cult who had been holed up in a cave in Russia for the last few months are reported to have come out.
On Saturday, seven members of the cult, who believe the world will end in May, came out of the cave.
Part of the cave is said to have collapsed, leading to fears for the life of the 14 remaining members.
In October, 28 cult members barricaded themselves in the cave 750km (450 miles) south-east of Moscow.
“Two rooms collapsed on Tuesday. As a result 14 people came to the surface, including two children,” deputy Penza region governor Oleg Melchenkno is quoted as saying by Interfax news agency.
Priestly intervention
On Monday, a priest expert in the Book of Revelations, Fr Hermogen, was sent in to speak to cult members through a ventilation shaft.
On Saturday, seven women were allowed to leave with cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov after he was brought to the scene to negotiate.
Up until now, cult members had strongly resisted attempts to force them out.
They threatened to detonate gas canisters if attempts were made to remove them.
Mr Kuznetsov, who calls himself Fr Pyotr, declared himself a prophet a number of years ago and has attracted followers in Russia and Belarus.
He is thought to have ordered his followers into the cave but did not join them. ”
The last line says it all.
jx
take a look at this russian prophet …..remind you of anyone?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7323895.stm
jx
202, 230 and 231 are newly moderated.
Unoanimo (261),
Forward slash was right where you said it was. Thanks for the direction.
I live in South Texas about 150 miles from the Mexican border. Certain tribes come down to this part of the world to gather “Cactus Buttons” for their ‘spirit ceremonies’. This is also ranch country with lots of cow patties.
I don’t know about shamans around here but there are plenty of “Curanderos”. I’m guessing they are mostly traditional.
Anyway, I’m just glad that “plant teachers” exist. It makes my heart happy.
unoanimo:
“Iboga: if you go to Gabon (the bwiti-ngenza), pack a lunch, you’ll be there awhile, it’s not like the sit-down of ayahuasca: it’s an initiation and the whole village becomes your family and they participate in your process… ”
What is the symbolic message conveyed by making this ritual a village/family bonding experience? Plants and humans need each other. Let’s all get along. That sounds groovy to me. I like hugs. No offense, how imaginary a spirit is that?
“…direct access to the spiritual dimension, then, well, it is exactly what one needs….taking the lessons it teaches and assimilating them.”
The door is designed to go both ways. Share the cosmic fruit, unoanimo. Spill the cosmic beans. (As you know, I don’t mind spinning. If I spun you, by all means you can spin me back.) Tell us what have your grand parents the plant teachers taught you? Do you visit them often?
230 DaveE
Nice to have your voice here, Stella certainly helped many of us.
You might consider trying to look for “66” or “88” or my favorites, “506” or “605” to see if your thirty years of looking for “44”s has any intrinsic meaning, … or not …
JoelF
uno thanks for the input.
“contact” is a relative condition and as such I see why you might question what I meant. it may be a question of degree but not of certainty…. you have a different frame of reference, as you said “I do not do drugs” but based on your experiences you have a clue as to what is meant by “making contact.” There are various means and I agree they are each unique… believe me my friend, I know the difference between recreation and re – creation.
( :~()
elena
http://www.soulselfhelp.on.ca/tshame.html
whalerider,
ever tried immersion in a sensory deprivation tank?
Hello Whalerider ~
As I was sharing with ‘ton’, I have not experienced iboga: what I understand from the circle of people who have immersed themselves in ‘being their own shamans’ is that iboga is reserved for the really big demons, deep tissue things like addictions, one’s family tree diseases and hauntings, i.e., ancestral bone-marrow deep traumas, inherited DNA malfunctions and disorders, etc., etc.
There’s a book on iboga ‘Iboga, The Visionary Root of African Shamanism’ by ~ Vincent Ravalec, Mallendi, and Agnes Paicheler:
that little book will pretty much give you a sense of where iboga has been sitting and serving the spirit dimension and mankind (and itself) for tens of thousands of years.
Then there’s www(dot)ibogaine(dot)org
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I do not really know; I think your tongue is in your cheek though Whalerider, is it?
If it is not, then I apologize immediately, it’s just that your first and second questions seem to be a bit teasing and making fun… Ok, so…
From what I have heard about iboga, it is Africa’s big-sister plant to South America’s ayahuasca and since it’s in that realm, then, believe me there’s nothing ‘symbolic’ about the initiation and no “symbolic messages”, it’s all real, very real…
Too real really, yet, that’s what the underside of the bottom of the barrel is about; the first metaphor that comes to my mind is that it’s not about the shit, it’s about the grocery shopper and not the store, BTW.
I can understand that all of us in context to the very symbolic influences (omens and shocks) from Robert Burton and The Fellowship of Friends situation and the American down playing of the Spirit Realm as something left over from the Dark Ages, that you’re skeptical;
I was a bit too (ignorant more so than dumb),because I was approaching the situation having had my own spirit-events since I was a young lad and up to that point in time (one month ago).
So, I knew that the realm of possibilities were real and not theoretical, yet had no clue that ayahuasca was such a doorway, sentient being and carrier to Space and The Underworld… So, I really did not know exactly what to expect…
What happens to the You-you… It is absolutely from the left field next to the left field located next to the spare left field that everyone knew about and figured there was only one spare left field and not two.
It’s almost like explaining to a coffee bean what it’s like to have a cup of coffee and then the coffee plant says, WTF is coffee and why are you roasting and grinding up my sex-seeds?
________________________________________
I recorded my experiences with these sessions, which is about sixty pages, that I will not post here on the blog because I would not wish my own personal story to influence others in their pure decision to put their hand on the doorknob and their hearts in The Grandmother’s hands.
There’s enough information on the internet to satisfy your curiosity, if it’s general and if you really want to read my account, then email the Sheik your email address and he can forward it to me, just please make sure that he understands that it’s you and it’s the same email you use to identify yourself here on WordPress;
One thing I can say is that it most certainly involves passing through all the Bardos (if) that’s what the plant spirits at the time of your presence amongst them know to do and facilitate…
_______________
Just a note, never take iboga alone, never… Go to people who know and understand this sacred plant and its consequential handling, who are filled with deep compassion, patience of steel and a heart so big that an elephants rib cage would not be enough to keep it in…
Get references from the internet and really do your homework… I would not recommend iboga to someone unless I knew the person had lots of experience with ayahuasca and that there was something so big and so stuck that it was the next necessary stage… It’s a tricky dance.
Whalerider, on the clinical study side of things, you might appreciate the book called ~ DMT, The Spirit Molecule; we all have this substance naturally occurring in our bodies, it is released (some say by the pineal gland: remember that little fella?) at the moment of birth and death… Ayahuasca contains DMT and an inhibitor (two plants combined) that keeps it from being broken down by the physical body.
You know I am not advocating ayahuasca to everyone and I am not saying that it’s the end-all-solution to exactly what people are looking for because I do not know what people are looking for…
I first got the word in an email from a friend in Belgium; I had described to him my situation and he, a sort of ‘Mountain Man’ and deep “Sentient Being”, wrote me a one word answer “Ayahuasca”…
He could have also said “Bach Flower Remedies” or “Psychotherapist” or “Curved room with cozy fitting white leather Jacket”; luckily he knew me intuitively and not literally and that I was such a hard-head that only The Grandmother would do it and she did and they did… It ain’t over though, by any means…
I will say this, if there’s ever a real raising of Atlantis, plant spirits will be at the helm of the movement and down below rowing the boat and in charge of the anchor…
It’s not that it’s a free ride or a ‘tripy’ tourist show… You’re the boat! Your life is still very, very all yours; it’s just that I got to a point in my life that I simply had no idea or ‘right sense’ as to WTF was mine and WTF was mine… It’s still a very intense time of subtraction and subtraction; I knew I needed to change or see something, I could feel it in my gut, deep down, like a big cat fish with constipation going back to Queen Hatshepsut.
It’s not for everyone and going to ayahuasca takes its orders (IMO) from one’s Conscience, not necessarily your level of consciousness or being (that can actually be an obstacle for a time) yet, on one level, being and conscience are inseparable. Like being present to a repetitive series of traumatic-feeding-frenzies and all the ingredients making up one’s heart-shield (buffers), such experiences can change a person with the permission though only from their higher place of recognizing the lessons and doing the work (and I do not mean Fellowship talk).
I just about fell off the kitchen breakfast-table-chair when on one morning after an all night session (usually 8-10 hours) the wife of the host couple who had the yurt in their back yard, said, “Wow, yeah, it was a very difficult night for me, very hard lessons, but now comes the tough part, I have to DO MY WORK.”
When I heard her say that and saw the expression on her face, it was here, by the campfire, in the yurt and all the in between places when I realized that souls are not stopped by the perceived ‘failure’ of fellow human beings or institutions, that there is continuance and a level of private sincerity that exists, of a bit different quality when there’s such lessons and work being given out directly from the source and not those needing it themselves the most…
It’s a strange journey and ignorance is bliss and also hell: all I can say is that I love you guys and wish you the deepest and greatest experience down here, for your soul’s sake mostly and sharing that sake too.
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L.t.y.a.
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Welcome DaveE (230). It is already good to hear your voice! Thanks for 231 and the picture of the blog today!
Uno, I can actually hear you! It must be all this practice!
Religion?
Traditional religions outside? Ayahuasca grandmother?
Or the alphabet with which we open the door, sit close to each other and talk?
The time you allow yourself to listen to stories?
The way you allow water to cleanse you out in the shower?
With which you pull the chair where a woman might seat?
The way in which you bring bread to your mouth?
“I am” is not here to invent the world but to discover it.
There is no other rose but this one, the difference is how I stand before it.
But are there such things as roses, women and stories still in your world?
Or has religion completely washed over them?
‘Uno’
269
although you were sharing with
‘whalerider’
i would like to comment:
you keep getting better, clearer, thanks.
I would like to read your “yage letters.”
uh oh, more nostalgia… duck!
It will go down in the annals of cult history, not to mention the legendary chronicles of grifter capers, that when Burton offered his cult members animal droppings as esoteric symbolism 1,500 unoccupied human carcasses bought a teaching based on the interpretation of prehistoric depictions of rhino defecation. This incident marks a new low in the astonishing lack of progress mankind has made in the realm of gullibility.
I apologize if it appears to anyone that I’m monopolizing space here.
I’ve been waiting most of the day for video to finish loading onto the computer… if that explains it.
‘halftruth’
(and all the women folk out there, or those folks with sisters),
if u r a fan of nicole kidman and/or jennifer jason leigh…
see MARGOT AT THE WEDDING, great character studies,
great acting.
Elena 270,
“But are there such things as roses,
women and stories still in your world?”
this is for all you “hopeless romantics”
here’s a musical version,
you may have heard:
Hello Elena ~
You wrote ~
“But are there such things as roses, women and stories still in your world?
Or has religion completely washed over them?”
______________________________________________
I am a little confused here; not sure about the importance of religion; maybe you read something I wrote in a different way then I intended… Could you quote what I wrote that gave you the impression that religion has washed over or has precedence above my emotional life: not sure how a person, if it’s real inner-religion could separate religion from roses, women and stories?
Also I am not sure about the first question either (?) Hopefully there’s more than “Roses, women, stories and religion” available in our lives, though I suppose these are qualifications still stuck in many people’s hearts and minds after leaving the Fellowship of Friends spectrum of prerequisites and emotional interpretations; I am only thankful to have been thoroughly ‘straightened out’ so far as these types of importances go…
I like roses, though prefer orchids so far as interior desk top things go: I used to have an English Garden filled with all sorts of roses, I like how they can remain powerfully themselves while even surrounded by others than themselves… Actually, for me, they are stand alone plants and loose something when they’re too close to one another… (I will try not to psychoanalyze that one).
I like women too and no, there are none in my life, unless you count plant spirits… hee hee.
Stories, well, that goes without saying… I am writing one right now and about to push the ‘Submit Comment’ button…
________________________
:.)
Hi Joel:
Are you the inestimable and venerable JoelF of Philadelphia fame? If so I remember many a memorable meeting that you led in Philly. I fell asleep during one of MB’s very dry body type presentations. I agree with you on the numbers issue. With RB I would think that 666 might be appropriate though. You know it is kind of interesting that RB never really added any Angels to the deck…..but I must say when I heard what was in store for those three other conscious beings I decided that being a lil ol Man number 4 was not such a bad thing. I even considered retreating to a man number 3.
It is simply a question, Uno.
Is there a smile when you meet other people or are they left with the smile pasted in their own face like the unreturned hug that you described before?
So many times…
I imagine it is for some who practice this things, about not being under feminine dominance or whatever theory they invent to be out of patterns with a world whose ideal pattern never came to be but whatever the story is, what is obvious is that we only see what we are identified with. The rest are simply blind spots. Since we are mostly identified with our own imaginary picture, we in fact see nothing.
I agree with you that the power of the plants is to break through such identifications and allow people to see beyond themselves. Also in that it would be very good to treat people with certain difficulties with such plants. Robert and so many others. And as initiation rituals they would do no one any harm. My question perhaps goes to the point that I question the quest for higher states as conceived in the Fellowship of Friends. That urge for the high with increasinly less regard for the simple practical everyday life was deadly. Even more so because in the Fellowship the quest for the “high” became impossible and the practical everyday life, is adorned with gold alchemy so that we don’t see what is being raped.
Another way to look at it is that for me the question today is how do you penetrate the second state with the third state? When I think of Ayahuasca or any other artificial way of reaching a third state, a third state will be the result. Like all third states they penetrate our understanding and create being-memory. The problem with any such a thing today is that people do become addicted to the high state without ever conceiving of the possibility of expanding themselves into the second state.
The substances required for the third state are already within us and what the plants or mushrooms usually accomplish is catalyzing them so that they are loosened into action from which the third state is produced. This is one way of producing third states. The other is walking one’s self into them which is what I understand the Fourth Way as well as all the other ways, try to accomplish.
My reservation lies in that the temptation to reach such states artificially is very great because they are of course so much faster and easier than walking one’s self into them, second by second for long periods of time.
Another questionable aspect for me is that the temptation to become fascinated with sacred plants in our time is similar to the tendency to fall in love when you are sixteen! A deadly but wonderful experience! Deadly in as much as people become alienated from the rest of existence convinced that the person we are in love with is the only worthwhile human being on the planet. Deadly like the Fellowship of Friends idolatry for Robert Burton. They are very tempting experiences but they tend to alienate people from themselves and as such, they are not experiences I would recommend easily.
There are really no roses or women or stories in my question, the question is: Can we be there for the world before us? The simple, everyday world that meets us around the second? The more substances one takes, the less chances one has of developing the inner lifeliness to be there for the reality in front of us. Even the amount of computer and television needs to be measured.
They are sacred plants for specific rituals once or twice in a lifetime but again, walking one’s self to that state is an actual possibility for the whole of one’s life if one is able to hold the perspective of not only one’s inmediate biography but of one’s “being human” reality.
In the second state we can basically see only our immediate biography and see the world with that short rod. It is actually a delightful bonsai of the macrocosmos that one increasingly comes to appreciate. In the third state we are able to penetrate our entire humanity and look at the world in its connections to us, as human beings. To bring that perspective to our immediate surrounding or to pull our surrounding up to that perspective is consciousness. We are human beings. There is nothing more beautiful. The Gods live within us. When we honor our lives, we make the bridge between them and the world around us and become one with the whole.
Thank you for dialoguing.
Elena
Thank you for your words and your invite.
What is difficult now is to know that the school and students work. And also to wander whether it is possible for a teacher to create consciousness and lie to his students.
I feel I have done the right thing though.
My decision has been made I have left. One of the reasons was because I feel is not possible to grow higher than a number four in the FOF. Because we are imitating Roberts essence. That is imitation, so far I have been living Robert’s life. Imitating his essence. I need to live my life develop my individual essence create my own hydrogens and find my own master.
As you said in 260
Do you not find it ironic that what we did in the Fellowship of Friends is make up a life so that we didn’t have to deal with the one we had been given? A life in which we lived Robert’s life rather than our own? Organized, institutionalized, worked for, tried to have fun with, no matter how impossible?
Hardtruth, that was very sweet for such a hard truth!
And Ton, beautiful!
Gratitude grows proportionately!
276 hornyalex
““Influence C has put our school on a sequential diet. Those who can accept this fact will stay, and those who do not will have to go.” Robert Burton, March 2008”
I would restate it thus:
Influence ME has put our school on a sequential diet. Those whose divine heads are quite far up their divine asses will stay, and those whose aren’t will re-begin their wonderful lives anew. And, oh yes goodness, your money, time, efforts and energy will once again be YOURS.
daveE: Welcome aboard. Tell us more about your story.
‘ton:
Thanks for the suggestion. In fact, there is an isolation tank business below me, operating in the building where I practice my thing, acquainting people with their inner shamans.
I did two sessions of over an hour each about six months ago. It was peaceful and relaxing, and the experience of floating was phenomenal. Without my body having to support itself, I could feel a surplus of energy available that deepened my meditation. The experience also heightened my awareness of my breath, which is always a useful memory to recall. I recommend it.
unoanimo:
Thank you, my friend, for your fine post about your journey. I enjoy the personal accounts the most.
Yes, of course, my tongue was in my cheek, but we are flying on instruments here, which is fine by me, and I am now confident you understand the meaning of Namaste. I tease to please.
I think we can agree that synchronicity is subjective, for individual consumption only, and yet RB attempts to make his personal synchronicity objective for his followers. Yes, this I grew to mistrust. (thankfully, Mel, you did too.) He uses his personal symbols as omens and shocks to serve his own grandiosity and narcissism, not his soul. For others caught in his web, IMO, this practice has a soul-deadening effect.
As you say, a nice psychological “shot in the arm” as you have done for yourself on your path is exactly what is needed to break the FOF spell, dissolve the spiritual monopoly the FOF holds over its followers, and/or help a person get “unstuck”. That is a different matter of which I speak.
“believe me there’s nothing ’symbolic’ about the initiation and no “symbolic messages”, it’s all real, very real…”
Symbolic vs. real…you point to an interesting dichotomy. Is it real or symbolic? Permit me to spin on that statement.
You are familiar with psychosomatic illness, yes? Most stress disorders can fall into this category. To the extent one is attached to or identified with something (or in my case presently, someone else I happened to be married to for ten years), the stress is self-imposed.
To the materialist, such illness is not real…all in the head, so to speak. “You are worried about nothing.” To the patient, however, the illness is quite real, the pain is quite palatable, and the symptoms are sometimes quite bizarre.
To unravel the illness, one must look ‘beyond’ the symptom itself. Such an illness often has symbolic meaning for the individual, carrying a symbolic message that their conscious mind is not ready or able to accept. When the message is assimilated by the conscious mind by whatever means, the symptom is usually resolved, whether that is depression or hysterical blindness. It is very, very real, though. Just as any ‘vision quest’ is real for the initiate, no matter how mundane is seems by onlookers.
Hey, nothing wrong with a good vision quest for getting unstuck or for some spirit retrieval for the de-spirited.
The point I hav been making is: the message is revealed in symbols…totems, if you will. How could it be otherwise?They are indeed real, more real than we can imagine, just as the spirit world is real and this world is an illusion. The language or message is in symbolic form. It carries dense and layered meaning which sometimes takes years to decipher.
After many journeys through my own door into the spirit realm, holding onto this understanding allowed me to hold onto the learnings and assimilate them. It’s the difference between being consumed by fire or tempered by fire.
Elena:
Would you by chance care to discuss (not argue) in fourth way terms the difference between the third state of “self-remembering” and the fourth state of objective awareness?
Spank me if I am wrong here, it seems to me that you are objecting to reaching the fourth state without adequate third state, instead of third without enough second, if I am remembering my fourth way dogma well.
IMO, with enough self-remembering, one realizes the “self” one is “remembering” eventually becomes an obstacle and must be relinquished to perceive greater scales or dimensions of objective or spiritual awareness. As you say, by relinquishing some elements of our “self-identity” we can precieve how we fit into and play a part in humanity at large. (I’d say my kids spend most of their time in the second state, on a joy ride from one sensation to the next.)
My experiences with plant teachers usually involve a vacation from “self-remembering” into more expanded awareness beoynd the self. Has that been your experience?
Although I am very much aroused (and already beginning to do my ‘homework’) by the idea of a trip to South America to visit unoanimo’s grandmother (and ton, I would meet you anywhere that I was able to get to, and share a cup of almost anything you might cook up), I find myself this evening, on a small island just off the coast of South Carolina and under the influence of the more mundane, yet not to be taken lightly, or for granted, very high grade cannabis from Humboldt County, Ca. Now what this plant allowed me to glimpse this evening after a period of playing my guitar and trying to find my voice, was that it appeared to me, for just a moment or so, that this blog may be beginning to sprout some sort of buds or flowers. Or maybe it is just all this talk about plants.
Unoanimo, Lauralupa, ton, Whalerider,and others, thank you all, and you too Cake Please; and Cake Please, could you please send us something, I would very much enjoy hearing your voice.
Whalerider, I didn’t think I was arguing with Uno, I thought I was exploring other possibilities. Is that not a dialogue?
Dear Elena:
All I asked is that you not argue with me. That’s all. But you can if you want. I really didn’t read your response to Unoanimo; presumably it was just for him. Please, by all means, let’s explore other possibilities, too.
Elena 260
I’m definitely going to print this one. I am probably going to frame it too.
I’m definitely going to quote this one.
I think it is but one short step away from complete.
I have seen this one approach for a long time now.
Congratulations!
You have dared to say what very few even start to hint at.
And I used to think you were a bitchin’ trouble maker.
Well maybe you are, but trouble for whom?
Out of trouble, peace was born.
Out of peace, joy was born.
Out of joy, love was born.
So close, so close I can smell it. Whooaahhh!
Yo James:
I *highly* recommend moving into ingesting your US Grade A California-grown influence C and away from burning it into your lungs. Bet you didn’t know that a virus is small enough to ride on a particle of smoke…
Ingesting nets you 100% absorption of the active ingredient verses about 45% when inhaled along with a host of unnecessary chemical compounds. If you reduce your buddies into a cooked fine powder form with a dry sauce pan on low heat for about 20 minutes, then give spin in the old mortar and pestle, you can dose starting by the one eighth of a teaspoon, yes, that’s right folks, as little as one eighth of a teaspoon for a medicinal effect lasting 4-6 hours verses 2-4. Sprinkle on buttered toast.
At work, I pass it on to my health conscious clients as the “Recipe for Harm Reduction”.
Use only as innerly directed.
The fourth state is what we’re in.
The third state is realizing we are in the fourth state.
The second state is wondering what the difference is between them.
287 Yesri baba:
“The fourth state is what we’re in.”
I’ve got to wonder which cave painting informed you of this idea. Yes, I’m saying that you believe something that is wholly incorrect. Someone is likely in the fourth state somewhere in the world, but that person is not only not you but that fortunate individual is likely far from your particular location. Higher energy is not free, nor is it available to each and every personality wandering around with “fuck you” on the tip of his tongue. Rational people understand such facts of life.
Hello Whalerider ~
I will try to share by doing a copy/paste thing with your letter to me with my notes back to you at the bottom of each long line drawn; thank you for taking the time and heart to write a gentle and open sharing of your point of view and experience. It helps me so much these days, this gentleness that arrives not from having requested it, but by itself.
__________________________________
You wrote ~
“As you say, a nice psychological “shot in the arm” as you have done for yourself on your path is exactly what is needed to break the FOF spell, dissolve the spiritual monopoly the FOF holds over its followers, and/or help a person get “unstuck”. That is a different matter of which I speak.”
_________________
Yes and it’s a different matter from where I am these days too; see, what occurred to me is (I do not wish to seem profound here, it’s just a powerful time of making connections and severing certain anchors) directly aligned with a process and journey that’s been going on long before I met my first Bookmark and joined the Fellowship of Friends in the Deep South Bayous.
I stayed away from Robert Burton’s den encumbrances and circumferences for the most part of the 14 years I was living in Oregon House, until I married someone who went to meetings every Sunday, so, I wanted to experiment and purchased a tucks and a new ego-henna-tattoo playing the ‘role’ as one of ‘tha server-dudes’, though not a dude that stays after the sermon…
When I said ‘no’ to Robert Burton that was the end of my ‘role’; it was an interesting experiment and I learned allot about working ‘for’ people, rather than ‘with’, which can be a pretty easily manipulative little thingy for a certain something within me to express and hide behind…
So, I was not a hard or soft core indoctrinate-tee and leaving the Fellowship of Friends was not a difficult thing for me to do; when I knew, I knew and the profoundity of the voice inside which said, after reading the blog, ‘WTF? Well, WTF? Ok, time to go.’ pretty much created an honest to god tsunami big enough to surf round and round in my marriage till I got dizzy with myself and all my secret shit and then ride the toilet bowl jettison all the way across to where I am now in Europe to get swallowed by a whale…
You gotta love the plumbing down here!
So, Whalerider, ‘me too!’, I agree with you; again, it’s not about getting a shot in the arm to dissolve old Fellowship of Friends viruses, that’s not what I am speaking about…
What occurred to me with ayahuasca is simply not about mind structures built up by a cult, though those were torn down along the way just from the breeze created by Grandma’s opening of the door to the kitchen to the cellar;
after the breeze smacked down any Oregon House facade that may have been hanging on the clothes line, she proceeded to burrow into the Earth to its core and pee on that too… So, now that the Earth was still and the sky unobstructed by other people’s laundry, she could get down town and into my Inner Graveyard jamboree …
But all that blowing down of personal laundry sorta takes place in the beginnings of the stepping through the doorway; if you’ve ever experienced leaving your body, it is also leaving your little story details too and for me the Fellowship of Friends is included in that;
yet, this is not to say that I do and did not have my own inner version of the Fellowship of Friends to work with, oh yes, it’s there and everyone will find out sooner or later, that it is not the External Fellowship of Friends that’s really waking you up at night, it’s your own ‘real-er’ version of it, way deep down, locked up in mysterious closets and subconscious traumas, the one that saw in the Fellowship of Friends a near carbon look alike or at least a ‘family-carpet’ able to supply a hiding place for its dust: now that’s going to be the kicker, IMO…
My experience though was not centered around dealing with compartments (one of which contains the experiences and influences built up by the Fellowship of Friends),rather I was smacked up side the face with the entire city block, which is a much, much deeper situation than one apartment in a city of millions; meeting the Landlord is most definitely not the same as meeting its tenants.
_______________________
You wrote/quoted ~
“believe me there’s nothing ’symbolic’ about the initiation and no “symbolic messages”, it’s all real, very real…”
Symbolic vs. real…you point to an interesting dichotomy. Is it real or symbolic? Permit me to spin on that statement.
You are familiar with psychosomatic illness, yes? Most stress disorders can fall into this category. To the extent one is attached to or identified with something (or in my case presently, someone else I happened to be married to for ten years), the stress is self-imposed.
To the materialist, such illness is not real…all in the head, so to speak. “You are worried about nothing.” To the patient, however, the illness is quite real, the pain is quite palatable, and the symptoms are sometimes quite bizarre.
To unravel the illness, one must look ‘beyond’ the symptom itself. Such an illness often has symbolic meaning for the individual, carrying a symbolic message that their conscious mind is not ready or able to accept. When the message is assimilated by the conscious mind by whatever means, the symptom is usually resolved, whether that is depression or hysterical blindness. It is very, very real, though. Just as any ‘vision quest’ is real for the initiate, no matter how mundane is seems by onlookers.
Hey, nothing wrong with a good vision quest for getting unstuck or for some spirit retrieval for the de-spirited.
The point I have been making is: the message is revealed in symbols…totems, if you will. How could it be otherwise?They are indeed real, more real than we can imagine, just as the spirit world is real and this world is an illusion. The language or message is in symbolic form. It carries dense and layered meaning which sometimes takes years to decipher.”
____________________________________
Well, ok, I understand this, what you’re speaking of, in my own way, though ayahuasca is not a “vision quest”, it might be something with vision questing you, but it’s just not a vision quest…
When you go to a shaman he or she’s having the experience in order to get you the totem, power word or to retrieve a part of one’s soul or expose a core piece of information that one’s own intuition cannot grasp or has been lost beneath some heap of dirt from somebody else’s balcony; so far as I can understand and have seen, the experience the shaman is having is not the one the person requesting the help is having… What he sees is not what the ‘patient’ sees and the gulf between the shaman journey and the souvenirs the tourist to the shaman is holding afterwards, contains allot of Space, maybe enough to fit a few solar systems in.
Power words and collections of totems can be received without a shaman, (shaman’s are servants, not masters; now there’s one for the FOF within us to chew on) because such symbols reside from the spirit of the totems themselves, which is not symbolic, these forces and beings can be directly accessed, though on their terms, not yours:
see, they are not interested in your interpretations and deciphering, they’re only about being themselves and doing whatever it is that whatever it is does…
It’s the job of the shaman to do his or her best to assist the ‘patient’ is approaching the ‘footprint in the sand’ to figure out whose foot it may fit best; it nearly meets the realm or craft of dream interpretation…
These informational rituals work all the time and the power of the totems and ‘power words’ are real just like a fingerprint is real, but it’s not the body who left it behind.
So, ayahuasca will open a dimension door for your soul to be lead through and right there, if your totem is really a dolphin, then, by golly you might just find your consciousness inside one and see things no national geographic channel could ever have programmed in; then comes the dolphins story and all the stuff surrounding how in the world a dolphin and not a turtle? Now you might say that the dolphin is a symbol, yet, too, as you’re taken deeper into the experience you’ll might just find out that the human form is also a symbol to certain beings, just like the bull is to the Taurus constellation and visa versa…
You might even ask whether dolphins have totems and power words of their own?
The lessons and communication facilitated by the ayahuasca vine (and you) make a direct connection to the top most pier of your conscience, not consciousness (another FOF-chewy):
so, it’s just like waking up the next morning from having visited your brother’s family in Detroit the previous day; you do not have to sit through allot of self-help sessions to prove to yourself and understand that yes, indeed you did see your brother and his family yesterday and yes, those pictures on your digital camera are of him and the camera is yours, while the tar on your new Ducati Desmosedici RR is not black tears from Italian elves, it’s from that darn do it your self-er across the street that’s obsessed with patching cracks in the street.
In other words, it’s as real as Real gets and the symbolism is only created after the fact of having made contact with the source of the symbols inspiration, not the other way around; think about the being who ‘made’ the dolphin, not necessarily it’s physical form, but its constitution and left brain attributes: if your consciousness was able to slip inside a dolphin ‘form and function’ then you’d have no other tactile identity in space and time other than that of a dolphin, because “consciousness is not functions”, but, by golly functions are conscious of themselves and are bitchin!
Just watch the Youtube video of a mother tiger fending off a huge bear, how their ‘functions’ meet one another’s spirits… WOW! That there’s a space between them that allows this dance to occur… The consciousness inside the bear and that which is in the tiger, those ‘spirits’ could very well be from the same origin, but their equipment is not the same… (?) Chewy.
So, rock on!
____________________________________________
You said ~
After many journeys through my own door into the spirit realm, holding onto this understanding allowed me to hold onto the learnings and assimilate them. It’s the difference between being consumed by fire or tempered by fire.
_____________________________________
Yes, that’s interesting… I did not experience this kind of being able to ‘hold onto’ or ‘power’ to act within what was happening to me: I was put into a spectator position, for whatever reason… I think it’s because I thought I was ‘really’ in control of my life, that the island I am on is for me, because dammit, well, I like islands, etc., etc. Though I have yet to read of anyone able to ‘construct’ or ‘massage’ Grandma’s shoulders, maybe there are high level shaman’s who can open and close the kitchen cabinets at will, I spent most of my time in the oven.
____________________________
L.t.y.a.
It’s a mountain lion actually; appropriate for Oregon House reference.
Today:
The lower self wants only nothing, non-existence,
imagination. Presence is not enough for the lower
self; Influence C is not enough for him.
Love, Robert
Elena 277 thanks, you bring up an interesting comparison:
“…the temptation to become fascinated with sacred plants in our time is similar to the tendency to fall in love when you are sixteen! A deadly but wonderful experience! Deadly in as much as people become alienated from the rest of existence convinced that the person we are in love with is the only worthwhile human being on the planet. Deadly like the Fellowship of Friends idolatry for Robert Burton. They are very tempting experiences but they tend to alienate people from themselves and as such, they are not experiences I would recommend easily.”
I completely agree that the experiences we’re talking about are of the sort that one cannot “recommend easily” or at all for that matter (just for the record I am in no way recommending anything to anyone here). I think the crux of what you write above is the fact that encountering the “sacred plants” in the way we’ve been discussing is in fact entering a relationship… we all know how these things can go… sometimes badly, sometimes with the effects you describe (“alienation” etc.). But there is a difference in relating to the “sacred plants”… the ceremonial/ritual aspects, the difficulty of getting the stuff down, the nausea afterward, and especially the bare-naked truth that is revealed (this is often the most difficult part)… everything about the experience demands respect from the human participant and prohibits abuse of the relationship.
you write:
“… temptation to reach such states artificially is very great because they are of course so much faster and easier than walking one’s self into them, second by second for long periods of time.”
I can’t agree that what we are talking about is “artificial” at all. There is nothing artificial about it, the materials certainly are not and as has been alluded to, the states produced are more “real” than what we normally think of as reality, and it seems pretty naive to think that you’ll access these other layers of reality by “walking one’s self into them, second by second for long periods of time.” I think the places we are talking about are inaccessible without help from the biota… consider this symbiosis of plant and animal life… “Gaia” — and through her “mouth” the entire cosmos, is able to open communication with the otherwise hard-headed and in many ways “senseless” species called humans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis
whalerider 281 good stuff here, you write among other things:
“My experiences with plant teachers usually involve a vacation from “self-remembering” into more expanded awareness beoynd the self. Has that been your experience?”
I think we need to expand our notion of the “self” to include “all and everything” for example the planet as “self” and all of the inhabitants herein as parts of something larger.
the ego, the “I” that’s another kettle-o-fish and shouldn’t necessarily be confused with the self, although it might be part of the picture. So what would “self-remembering” be like if we expand our idea about what the self is? Although it may be a common misperception, it’s certainly not about the “ego” per se…
james
I have time during summer to move about more freely… we’ll stay in touch, maybe we can get together to tip a cup of something less challenging.
all the best to all
288
You so silly!
“Influence C has put our school on a sequential diet. Those who can accept this fact will stay, and those who do not will have to go. Love, Robert”
Yes, the FOF is overweight, obese in fact, by about 1499 people. But diets don’t work. The FOF needs liposuction, just not sequentially from Robert.
“The lower self wants only nothing, non-existence,
imagination. Presence is not enough for the lower
self; Influence C is not enough for him. Love, Robert”
The lower self wants a cookie, which tastes so good it will want another and another; 100 is not enough; it is never satisified. Being present, savoring the one cookie, and getting your emotional needs met elsewhere, allows you to maintain healthy moderation. Love, Jenny Craig
‘ton:
“I think we need to expand our notion of the “self” to include “all and everything” for example the planet as “self” and all of the inhabitants herein as parts of something larger.”
You brought tears to my eyes peeling back that layer of onion.
unoanimo:
“I did not experience this kind of being able to ‘hold onto’ or ‘power’ to act within what was happening to me: I was put into a spectator position, for whatever reason… I think it’s because I thought I was ‘really’ in control of my life…”
This is the issue for me. When my friends and I all took LSD back when I was 17, even though I was tripping my fool head off, I was the designated driver, drove us all around town and then home safely. My ‘observing I’ was still ‘present’, although hanging on with its fingernails for dear life. IMO, if you take a strong enough substance to completely obliterate the ‘observer’ (or spectator), then much of the symbolic message gets lost, too. Sure, the taste of contacting ‘the cosmic source’ still can linger, what then?
With a plant teacher or other psychoactive chemical compound, one is along for the ride no matter how long the substance lasts in the bloodstream, one has no control. You are ‘shown’ things whether you are ready to accept them or not, for in some cases very long periods of time. So much information gets densely packed into every minute of a trip and a ten hour trip equals 600 minutes! Never mind the puking or other unpleasant side effects. That’s why if I were so inclined, I personally would choose holotropic breathing or to take part in a sweat lodge or I’d embark upon a traditional fasting/sleep deprivation vison quest alone in the wilderness to get unstuck…and just like a in lucid dream, you can stop the process at any moment (and maybe even jot a few things down.)
It begs the question: do we have control over our lives? Does the plant teacher show us that we do not? I mean, shit happens. Well, yes and no. One viewpoint is that we only have control over our reactions, (thanks, renald). How we “think” about something, our thoughts and perceptions, controls how we feel and can affect our mood. We can change our mood by changing how we think. It does take practice, though.
“…if your totem is really a dolphin, then, by golly you might just find your consciousness inside one and see things no national geographic channel could ever have programmed in”
Actually, there is a process in shamanism called, “dancing your animal” that incorporates this. You journey to embody your spirit animal and then take it out for a trance dance, a night on the town, so the dolphin spirit gets to experience what it feels like to be in human form and walk on the earth (again). BTW, and maybe you weren’t (namaste), don’t underestimate the power of souvenirs as useful tactile reminders, we need them. In the 12 step process, they are called, “anniversary chips.”
“The lessons and communication facilitated by the ayahuasca vine (and you) make a direct connection to the top most pier of your conscience, not consciousness…In other words, it’s as real as Real gets and the symbolism is only created after the fact of having made contact with the source of the symbols inspiration, not the other way around…”
I, too, felt humbled by my out of body experiences, more reverent of life, and thankful afterward for a safe return. The question remains, how many trips to OZ does it take to get that there is no place like home? (Are yearly pilgrimages to Mecca needed, or is diving into the well once in a lifetime enough?) Do we need a wizard to bestow upon us something that we already have…maybe in our youthful ignorance of not knowing ourselves we do.
I can tell you like islands as much as I like tall mountains.
hardtruth (to yesri baba):
Jeeze, hardtruth, I am tending to agree with bruce that you are starting to sound like greg the graduate here, resurrected from his banishment to the default world. Welcome back. Have you been checked for rabies lately?
Whew, this botany talk is getting more and more interesting. 1/8 teaspoon, whalerider? I can’t smoke, but I can sure it buttered toast.
I wonder why Lauralupa is so quite. Is she in South America or Africa? You know she wants to.
That should be EAT buttered toast and not IT.
arthur 294
Oh boy, you hit me on a sore spot. I was actually planning to go on a little ayahuasca journey myself this coming weekend the other side of the Mediterranean, but had to let it go, much like yourself, to dedicate my attention to other pressing issues of a more, shall we say, “A influence” sort of nature. Indeed, I can’t hide my disappointment, but luckily things do move along in other interesting ways these days anyways. So, I have been kinda busy, and just now catching up with all the good reading.
Thank you all for that, and also for the great videos.
You Tube rules! (Elena, you don’t know how glad I am to have “won you over” – and I think you and I might be good at flamenco – should we take lessons?)
I had the time to watch the Darjeeling Limited last night. It’s by Wes Anderson, the director of my beloved The Royal Tenembaums – if you didn’t like that, you are gonna hate this one. I personally found it reeeally sweeet.
Will post more soon, have a big bag of stuff to share
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aO1bYukdvLI
“The lower self wants only nothing, non-existence,
imagination. Presence is not enough for the lower
self; Influence C is not enough for him.”
Love, Robert
It is the lower self that insists on sucking everyone’s cock then tries to convince them that it is C influence’s doing.
285 Renald, that’s surprising! But hey, thanks!
Whalerider, Ton,
Whalerider, your questions are related to Ton’s post so I’ll put an answer together
WR: “As you say, by relinquishing some elements of our “self-identity” we can precieve how we fit into and play a part in humanity at large”.
Ton: “I can’t agree that what we are talking about is “artificial” at all……
I think the places we are talking about are inaccessible without help from the biota…”
The process of getting to a high state we are talking about is similar whether it is through the practice of separating one’s self from one’s “personality” through non-identification or doing so “artificially” with a plant that will catapult one into a state of separation from the second state into instances of the third and fourth state. The process is similar but the experience is different. How you get there matters tremendously. One way to think about it is realizing the difference between taking a plane to New York from San Francisco, going by car or walking. What could you know about the experience after using one of these means? Likewise, once you are there, it is the difference between walking New York or using a car or the underground. It is also good to remember that we can access these states when shocked by an accident or in extreme suffering and in fact, no less often, in moments of great joy. They are all different but the process, that is, the separation from the acquired personality is similar. What we are talking about is allowing “life”, “the world”, “reality” or the “beyond” penetrate our small ego and allow it to take a look at “the real world.”
As I’ve said before, IMO initiation rituals are wonderful sacred experiences that may give the individual a glimpse of what another dimension is like, but as a ritual, they are in no way meant to replace the individual’s effort to reach that dimension. They are like a crutch for someone who is recovering from an accident and cannot yet walk on his own but the danger comes when people decide it is much easier to use the crutch than to make the effort to walk on their own.
We are in fact talking about the same situation students of the Fellowship of Friends have fallen into in their relationship to Robert Burton. They have decided to replace their possibility of awakening, or even of living their own simple life, for idolatry and living a life ironing his clothes and serving his meals or going to work to pay for his lifestyle. One could sit and trip for the rest of one’s lifetime with sacred plants and the waste of one’s self would be no different.
No matter what it is that we rely on: a plant, a teacher, a lover to get us to a high state, if we cannot rely on our own self to get to it, we are simply repeating different patterns of idolatry.
This is one aspect of the question. The other is: No matter where we go, what matters is what we bring home. We sacrifice and crucify ourselves only so that we can learn to actualize our love in one movement of a hand. As bridges between heaven and hell, human beings “actualize” our selves when we establish the connection between the two worlds.
It does not matter how much we feed higher states with plants or otherwise if we cannot bring those understandings to our practical life. A human being is the word in the dialogue between heaven and hell. We can bring heaven down to hell or take hell up to heaven, each second.
All this is bla,bla, bla if we cannot connect it to our practical human lives. To understand that there are not only sacred rituals of initiation but that we ourselves are sacred beings when we DO, when we make the connection and develop it in the work we do, the way we eat our food, the games we play, the people that surround us, water, air and fire, music, art, children and old people and even our very much hated next door neighbour is a sacred being, then we start making heaven of hell. The irony really is that it takes just as much work to be in hell as to make heaven of hell but the latter is a hell of a lot more rewarding.
Whalerider, it may look as if I’m deviating but this is addressing the question of fourth, third and second state when looked from above not from below. The terminlogy that divides the states is in itself difficult because we tend to forget that behind them is the individual and in front of them is the world. What changes in the different states is not the world or the individual but how the individual connects to the world. We live in the dialogue between the two worlds and are dead in the misconception of a static world proper of the second state. While we conceive ourselves as poor wretched idiots that mean nothing in a fucked up world, we are in hell; when we conceive ourselves as beautifully naked simple human beings standing there ready for whatever the next step demands, we are a flowing river for heaven to pour itself into life. Then there’s a smile, a rose, a chair moves for the woman you’d like to seat; a balloon goes up in the air; A man looks at the shoe he just finished, a mother sees the miracle of birth and we understand the dimension of death as it weaves into each second of our presence.
Ton, the plants are not artificial but the means to get to the high state is. “Walking our selves” into that state is religion. Religion today is psychology, science, art, war, the destruction of the planet, the healing of the planet, ourselves, work, love and everything else you can think of. Religion is US with plants, animals and minerals as one.
He knows he is dying…
See what that means for him:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=362421849901825950
Awe, wittle greggy no understand Yesri’s koan. Poor wittle greggy in the power diaper his daddy put on him. Oh no! wittle greggy poopied in his power diaper. Oh my look at all that poopie. There are lots of wounded mommies that think greggy is soooo cute in his poopie little power diaper and they want to help greggy clean the poopie. But they just get poopie all over them and wittle greggy just makes lots more poopie in his power diaper.
Spring is here and its arrival is accompanied by increased sex energy. If you have difficulty in this area it may behoove you to remember the Teacher’s advice to go to bed an hour later and rise an hour earlier.
Or you could just suck off twenty cocks in a row.
elena 298 you write among other things:
“the plants are not artificial but the means to get to the high state is…”
I disagree. there is not another way to get to the states under discussion except through these plant doors. so why call it “artificial”? it is doing what it is supposed to do. maybe a rose (or a state) by another name? maybe we’re talking about different things? you refer to “such states” maybe we’re talking about different things…
“temptation to reach such states artificially is very great because they are of course so much faster and easier than walking one’s self into them, second by second for long periods of time.”
Mel:
“What is difficult now is to know that the school and students work. And also to wander whether it is possible for a teacher to create consciousness and lie to his students.”
The Fellowship of Friends doesn’t work Mel and Robert is not a conscious being no matter how hard he tries. It’s you who work when it works! Alleluyah! And yes, beautiful to look for our essence and understand how or personal biography inserts itself into our nationality and the two of them in our most intimate connection to humanity at large. Then we have no shame to be who we are. Colombian, English, German… Arab… all human.
Laura, lessons? Immediately. If I weren’t needing to leave San Francisco I had already thought of that but let’s learn one in which you don’t have to kill me or me you but has the same force as the one in which they do!
Your selections are truly wonderful, what a gift! I’ve been looking for one for you and all and hopefully you’ll appreciate it even though it is simpler than those you offer. The spirit is still there. It’s Joan Manuel Serrat, not just a popular singer, he marked our generation with the way he surfed his own life on the Ocean of our time. This song says:
“And says a voice from the people:
Who’ll lend me a ladder to get up on the cross and take the nails off Jesus the Nazareth.
Oh the Saeta (dart?) in the chant,
To the Christ of the gypsies
Always with blood in his hands
Always to unnail.
The Song of the Andaluz people
That every spring are asking for ladders
To get up to the cross
The song of my land
That throws flowers
To the Jesus of Agony
And is the faith of my elders.
You’re not the one in my singing
I cannot sing or want,
To the Jesus on the Cross but
To the one who walked the Sea
Today you are not my song,
I cannot sing or want,
To the Jesus on the Cross but
To the one who walked the Sea.
Ton,
There is no other way to get to the states the plants give but taking them. Please don’t let me suggest other wise and sincerely, have a great trip. I have much appreciation and respect for your conviction. My love to you.
Oops, here is the song:
elena 303
sounds like the royal kiss-off…
love to u
Well, if you don’t want to take anything else of what I am offering you what else do you want me to give you. I’ve given you the best of me and it is not good enough. I give up.
If 291 is Robert D. from DC (circa 1980) then I shall be forced to tell the memorable but true story of when Istvan Nadas came and gave a piano concert at our teaching house.
Lauralupa (296),
Well, do the “A” influence thing and before you know it will be rocket time.
I just took care of a court hammer (pay or a warrant will be issued for your arrest). Crime? Loose dogs.
Next, is can my physical health take the mach speed of rocketing through inner space?
elena 306
it is good enough,
don’t give up.
Hey arthur, who let the dogs out?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=He82NBjJqf8
Hello Whalerider (and ‘ton’) ~
Whalerider, you wrote (thank you) ~
“My ‘observing I’ was still ‘present’, although hanging on with its fingernails for dear life. IMO, if you take a strong enough substance to completely obliterate the ‘observer’ (or spectator), then much of the symbolic message gets lost, too. Sure, the taste of contacting ‘the cosmic source’ still can linger, what then?”
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This portion: the ‘observer’ was absolutely there 110%, even more so since its human ‘little me personalized story’ was gone, it was only “Big I”, if you know what I mean…
Just like the consciousness experienced in an OBE, just cranked up and amplified due mainly to the presences of others than myself: I sensed later that in these dimensions there’s a very different degree of emotional availability and reception due to the raw, unobstructed components and forces at work, i.e., different body = different senses;
also, being in a vacuum-space, where gravity, breathing and the sense of one’s own automatic inner gravity-languages and logical mind are replaced by other ‘functions’ or simply not there, is a bit different, so far as possessing a more concentrated focus on one’s Perceiving-Conscious-Conscience…
Comparing the astral to the physical can often happen by mistake; it’s amazing what we take for granted and get to really know this only after the fact.
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So far as not being able to access those places without ayahuasca, well, that would not be fair to say really; not every spiritual ‘Love Dog’ lives in Africa or South America…
A Tibetan monk once was shown ayahuasca and he said, ‘Yes, it’s dealing with the Bardos.’ (At least in that particular case of viewing). Buddhist monks also drink ayahuasca…
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I must say that it falls a bit heavy on my heart that we still give ourselves license to talk about things and use those very things we have never experienced or gotten our hearts and love into so to make a comparison with something else, that, ironically enough, we still have not gotten our hearts and love around (?)
Maybe its not the lips or the sex, but rather the intent of the kiss?
I believe we would do each other so much more good and healing to speak and draw comparisons and deductions concerning forces that we’ve either really given birth to or they’ve given birth to us in some way and not the abortions and Waiting Rooms;
the Fellowship of Friends mainly have based their foundation on aborting humanity and ex-students and the relative probabilities of one’s in the moment inner god;
yet, this ‘aborting’ is only an external image-effect of an internal image reflecting outwards into life (it seems to me that external life catches our internal mirror reflections and gives them identities other than the actual owner of the mirror the reflection is originating from) and away from seeing oneself, the truth that it’s not just about the death of an egg or the damaging of the innocence hidden and wandering in the breast and plexus of humanity, it is also about the heart of the mother and father who brought this doorway into existence,
it is also about birds who build their nest each year in a garden that contains eight known cats residing there, who keep building their nests even when they see the cats seeing them… It is a mysterious world and ‘Eyes Wide Shut’ is only a quarter of the story…
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Love to you all
Arthur ~
Hello and you asked ~
“Next, is can my physical health take the mach speed of rocketing through inner space?”
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At the last ceremony I attended there was a woman there in her late forties who had just gotten out of having had lung cancer and the whole prescribed ‘works’;
the next morning I sat next to her at the campfire and looked deeply into her eyes and for the first time I understood that in every embattled feminine body was my searching love for my mother and my mother… (The door was still open.)
This woman had an incredible look on her face of absolute knowledge of where she stood in relation to everything ‘hers’, sphinx like actually…
She had a rough night, yet, even in the midst of her deepest hells she understood that she was enjoined by something so sincerely unto her that it actually left behind no other baggage from the process other than her own.
For inspiration.
Whalerider (309),
I let the dogs out. I went to YouTube (mine is really jerky) and heard, “who let the dogs out”. It reminded me of a little girl down the street. Whenever the song came on the radio we would have some fun. Especially, singing whoof, whoof. Then we would laugh.
After reading Uno (310) I went to Wiki and looked up Bardos. Whew, that can get a little bit scary, especially the after death Bardos.
The only ‘Hell’ is one’s true state of Conscience, IMO.
Unoanimo (311),
Inspired I am. It was really troubling me, the wondering, but still happy for those others that had the opportunity.
Thank you very much.
“The lower self only wants nothing, non-existence……. yada,yada,yada….”
Hey Bob, remember back in the days before you were lying all the time? Remember when you told us consciousness was non-existence aware of itself?
How about the time you came up to those guys doing late night painting at the lodge and said “Higher centers are functioning in us, the difference is that I know it.”
You spoke some truth back then Bob. What the fuck happened to you?
276, 308 are newly moderated.
Moving on:
NEW DISCUSSION